Must read: sex, Christ, astral, all according to your use of your genitals.

[ROMANWKT]

The truth that we have all seeked is right here, we the humanity have been lied too and are being manipulated by the system of slavery, if you have made the mistakes as one as myself, then its too late and you will understand why?? I ask you all to read this 100 page book and understand this as what I had meddled with 30 odd years ago, I had failed and did not understand the real implication of what you are about to find out, I had been a womanizer for the past 40 years, and am now paying the price for my ignorance 25554 I hope you have the chance to save your existence, as my chance has passed.

Warmest regards to you all

roman

[TargeT]

such vauge statements...

summary? why do you feel it is "too late" ?

[ROMANWKT]

such vauge statements...

summary? why do you feel it is "too late" ?

HI Target you need to read my friend

regards

roman

[NancyV]

I really hope you don't believe your "chance has passed". I can understand how you might feel that way after reading a few chapters of The Greater Mysteries. It is similar to many so called holy books I have read. It instills fear and guilt into one for living as a human and promotes ways to become enlightened that include having sex without orgasm. Gnostic teachings are not the only ones that promote certain sexual rituals which supposedly lead to enlightenment. Many promote complete celibacy, including the Sikh path I followed.

After leaving my body and traveling on all the different dimensions up to the Source for many years I pretty quickly came to see that almost all these paths and religions are about control. They utilize guilt, shame and fear of punishment for "sin". How do you feel after reading this book? Guilty? Shameful? You feel like you've missed your "chance"?

You haven't missed your chance. You are a perfect soul in a perfect body. The body has certain urges and if those urges were sinful we would have to believe that "God" or Source was a vile, twisted monster who wanted humans to suffer. Only we humans love to feel guilt and we also seem to love making others feel guilty. Guilt cannot coexist with Love. Love is unconditional. There is nothing you could do that would cause God to not love you. There is nothing you could do that would make you less deserving of being a part of the Source. In fact, we are all Source or God and we can't be anything else. Sure, as humans we can do a lot of negative and crappy stuff, but that's just a part of the process. It only matters to us here while we're in a body.

You may have been a womanizer and I guess that would make me a manizer. I've always loved men.....LOTS of them. I feel no guilt and I am not "sinful". The best thing I ever did was throw away all religious, spiritual and esoteric teachings and go my own way in my years of out of body travels. The only one who can enslave us is ourselves. I believe no teaching and no one who promotes fear, guilt, sin, weakness and helplessness. We are all powerful beings who are part of the Love, which is what the Source/God is.

[Bongo]

I really wouldn't put this down as a must read, I only read little bits and disagree with lots of what I read.

With ridiculous notions like this make it hard to take seriously.


Chapter 19
WORLD KARMA

Before the new Aquarian Age begins, all nations will have to pay their great karmic
debts; there will be war between East and West for the good of humanity; this is what
Lord Jehovah says. We know that the Orient will win the war.

1st of, national karmic debt? Karmic debt is for the individual not the masses that had no say what so ever about the bad decisions of the so called leaders of the nations then carried out by their lackeys. I mean if I had to kill someone in the name of my nation, the rest of the nation would then have to repay the karmic debt for an act I carried out? Sorry but not a chance.

2nd, Do you actually put your faith in Lord Jehovah? if so why? we all have free will and he/it is trying to supersede it. The start of the PDF clearly states that Jehovah is god... which is outrageous to be honest.

The mostly unseen hand of the shadow governments has been trying to start world war 3 for a while now and it is definitely not for the betterment of humanity but seems to fall right in with Jehovahs agenda.

[ROMANWKT]

I really hope you don't believe your "chance has passed". I can understand how you might feel that way after reading a few chapters of The Greater Mysteries. It is similar to many so called holy books I have read. It instills fear and guilt into one for living as a human and promotes ways to become enlightened that include having sex without orgasm. Gnostic teachings are not the only ones that promote certain sexual rituals which supposedly lead to enlightenment. Many promote complete celibacy, including the Sikh path I followed.

After leaving my body and traveling on all the different dimensions up to the Source for many years I pretty quickly came to see that almost all these paths and religions are about control. They utilize guilt, shame and fear of punishment for "sin". How do you feel after reading this book? Guilty? Shameful? You feel like you've missed your "chance"?

You haven't missed your chance. You are a perfect soul in a perfect body. The body has certain urges and if those urges were sinful we would have to believe that "God" or Source was a vile, twisted monster who wanted humans to suffer. Only we humans love to feel guilt and we also seem to love making others feel guilty. Guilt cannot coexist with Love. Love is unconditional. There is nothing you could do that would cause God to not love you. There is nothing you could do that would make you less deserving of being a part of the Source. In fact, we are all Source or God and we can't be anything else. Sure, as humans we can do a lot of negative and crappy stuff, but that's just a part of the process. It only matters to us here while we're in a body.

You may have been a womanizer and I guess that would make me a manizer. I've always loved men.....LOTS of them. I feel no guilt and I am not "sinful". The best thing I ever did was throw away all religious, spiritual and esoteric teachings and go my own way in my years of out of body travels. The only one who can enslave us is ourselves. I believe no teaching and no one who promotes fear, guilt, sin, weakness and helplessness. We are all powerful beings who are part of the Love, which is what the Source/God is.

Hi Nancey

I have loved love most of my life, I have no guilt, I have no sorrow, I have never hurt anybody, I have loved, I had been blessed with love, I had

Regards

please read

roman

[naste.de.lumina]

I really wouldn't put this down as a must read, I only read little bits and disagree with lots of what I read.

With ridiculous notions like this make it hard to take seriously.


Chapter 19
WORLD KARMA

Before the new Aquarian Age begins, all nations will have to pay their great karmic
debts; there will be war between East and West for the good of humanity; this is what
Lord Jehovah says. We know that the Orient will win the war.

1st of, national karmic debt? Karmic debt is for the individual not the masses that had no say what so ever about the bad decisions of the so called leaders of the nations then carried out by their lackeys. I mean if I had to kill someone in the name of my nation, the rest of the nation would then have to repay the karmic debt for an act I carried out? Sorry but not a chance.

2nd, Do you actually put your faith in Lord Jehovah? if so why? we all have free will and he/it is trying to supersede it. The start of the PDF clearly states that Jehovah is god... which is outrageous to be honest.

The mostly unseen hand of the shadow governments has been trying to start world war 3 for a while now and it is definitely not for the betterment of humanity but seems to fall right in with Jehovahs agenda.

Consent generates Karma.

Even unconscious consent.

This is one of the insidious tricks of the dark cabal.

[ROMANWKT]

I really wouldn't put this down as a must read, I only read little bits and disagree with lots of what I read.

With ridiculous notions like this make it hard to take seriously.


Chapter 19
WORLD KARMA

Before the new Aquarian Age begins, all nations will have to pay their great karmic
debts; there will be war between East and West for the good of humanity; this is what
Lord Jehovah says. We know that the Orient will win the war.

1st of, national karmic debt? Karmic debt is for the individual not the masses that had no say what so ever about the bad decisions of the so called leaders of the nations then carried out by their lackeys. I mean if I had to kill someone in the name of my nation, the rest of the nation would then have to repay the karmic debt for an act I carried out? Sorry but not a chance.

2nd, Do you actually put your faith in Lord Jehovah? if so why? we all have free will and he/it is trying to supersede it. The start of the PDF clearly states that Jehovah is god... which is outrageous to be honest.

The mostly unseen hand of the shadow governments has been trying to start world war 3 for a while now and it is definitely not for the betterment of humanity but seems to fall right in with Jehovahs agenda.

Hi loony

I dont follow any such thing, only knowledge, forget what he believes, read between the lines, dont absorb his biblical vocability , read as it is without his Christian programing, that the only way I read this, this is 1919, move on from that and read it ,it has truths that I know for sure, please read first.

Thank and regards

roman

¤=[Post Update]=¤



I really wouldn't put this down as a must read, I only read little bits and disagree with lots of what I read.

With ridiculous notions like this make it hard to take seriously.


Chapter 19
WORLD KARMA

Before the new Aquarian Age begins, all nations will have to pay their great karmic
debts; there will be war between East and West for the good of humanity; this is what
Lord Jehovah says. We know that the Orient will win the war.

1st of, national karmic debt? Karmic debt is for the individual not the masses that had no say what so ever about the bad decisions of the so called leaders of the nations then carried out by their lackeys. I mean if I had to kill someone in the name of my nation, the rest of the nation would then have to repay the karmic debt for an act I carried out? Sorry but not a chance.

2nd, Do you actually put your faith in Lord Jehovah? if so why? we all have free will and he/it is trying to supersede it. The start of the PDF clearly states that Jehovah is god... which is outrageous to be honest.

The mostly unseen hand of the shadow governments has been trying to start world war 3 for a while now and it is definitely not for the betterment of humanity but seems to fall right in with Jehovahs agenda.

Consent generates Karma.

Even unconscious consent.

This is one of the insidious tricks of the dark cabal.

Not at the moment Naste, please read first.

As always Naste.de.lumina

roman

[naste.de.lumina]

I really hope you don't believe your "chance has passed". I can understand how you might feel that way after reading a few chapters of The Greater Mysteries. It is similar to many so called holy books I have read. It instills fear and guilt into one for living as a human and promotes ways to become enlightened that include having sex without orgasm. Gnostic teachings are not the only ones that promote certain sexual rituals which supposedly lead to enlightenment. Many promote complete celibacy, including the Sikh path I followed.

After leaving my body and traveling on all the different dimensions up to the Source for many years I pretty quickly came to see that almost all these paths and religions are about control. They utilize guilt, shame and fear of punishment for "sin". How do you feel after reading this book? Guilty? Shameful? You feel like you've missed your "chance"?

You haven't missed your chance. You are a perfect soul in a perfect body. The body has certain urges and if those urges were sinful we would have to believe that "God" or Source was a vile, twisted monster who wanted humans to suffer. Only we humans love to feel guilt and we also seem to love making others feel guilty. Guilt cannot coexist with Love. Love is unconditional. There is nothing you could do that would cause God to not love you. There is nothing you could do that would make you less deserving of being a part of the Source. In fact, we are all Source or God and we can't be anything else. Sure, as humans we can do a lot of negative and crappy stuff, but that's just a part of the process. It only matters to us here while we're in a body.

You may have been a womanizer and I guess that would make me a manizer. I've always loved men.....LOTS of them. I feel no guilt and I am not "sinful". The best thing I ever did was throw away all religious, spiritual and esoteric teachings and go my own way in my years of out of body travels. The only one who can enslave us is ourselves. I believe no teaching and no one who promotes fear, guilt, sin, weakness and helplessness. We are all powerful beings who are part of the Love, which is what the Source/God is.

Hi Nancey

I have loved love most of my life, I have no guilt, I have no sorrow, I have never hurt anybody, I have loved, I had been blessed with love, I had

Regards

please read

roman

Deep down in the very beginning, we are as one.

If it is too late for someone, it is for everyone who actually are one.

Pieces of individual self-awareness 'all that is and will be.'

There is no delete, exit, or not 'be' the universe itself.

A tiny portion of the universe is the infinite potential of the universe itself.

The paths to the understanding that consciousness can be different for each small fraction of the whole, but that's it, just a different way.

My Roman friend. you are here, so if you did not exist the universe would not exist.

Hugs.

Naste.

P.S.: I will read the book to try to understand that possibility way it is.

[ROMANWKT]

I really hope you don't believe your "chance has passed". I can understand how you might feel that way after reading a few chapters of The Greater Mysteries. It is similar to many so called holy books I have read. It instills fear and guilt into one for living as a human and promotes ways to become enlightened that include having sex without orgasm. Gnostic teachings are not the only ones that promote certain sexual rituals which supposedly lead to enlightenment. Many promote complete celibacy, including the Sikh path I followed.

After leaving my body and traveling on all the different dimensions up to the Source for many years I pretty quickly came to see that almost all these paths and religions are about control. They utilize guilt, shame and fear of punishment for "sin". How do you feel after reading this book? Guilty? Shameful? You feel like you've missed your "chance"?

You haven't missed your chance. You are a perfect soul in a perfect body. The body has certain urges and if those urges were sinful we would have to believe that "God" or Source was a vile, twisted monster who wanted humans to suffer. Only we humans love to feel guilt and we also seem to love making others feel guilty. Guilt cannot coexist with Love. Love is unconditional. There is nothing you could do that would cause God to not love you. There is nothing you could do that would make you less deserving of being a part of the Source. In fact, we are all Source or God and we can't be anything else. Sure, as humans we can do a lot of negative and crappy stuff, but that's just a part of the process. It only matters to us here while we're in a body.

You may have been a womanizer and I guess that would make me a manizer. I've always loved men.....LOTS of them. I feel no guilt and I am not "sinful". The best thing I ever did was throw away all religious, spiritual and esoteric teachings and go my own way in my years of out of body travels. The only one who can enslave us is ourselves. I believe no teaching and no one who promotes fear, guilt, sin, weakness and helplessness. We are all powerful beings who are part of the Love, which is what the Source/God is.

Hi Nancey

I have loved love most of my life, I have no guilt, I have no sorrow, I have never hurt anybody, I have loved, I had been blessed with love, I had

Regards

please read

roman

Deep down in the very beginning, we are as one.

If it is too late for someone, it is for everyone who actually are one.

Pieces of individual self-awareness 'all that is and will be.'

There is no delete, exit, or not 'be' the universe itself.

A tiny portion of the universe is the infinite potential of the universe itself.

The paths to the understanding that consciousness can be different for each small fraction of the whole, but that's it, just a different way.

My Roman friend. you are here, so if you did not exist the universe would not exist.

Hugs.

Naste.

P.S.: I will read the book to try to understand that possibility way it is.

No Naste

I am 65, I had missed the boat my friend, your sexual energy matters in this case and I understand that, this has been hidden from us all, and if you look at sexuality, all is for depletion, all is targeted for depletion, its all there, turn your TV and all the rest, all is designed for depletion of your sexual energy, all is designed to frighten you from astral awakening, please read first.

Regards

roman

[Camilo]

To understand this book better, I though it was a good idea to first learn who was its author.

Who is Samael Aun Weor?...

The Initiatic Life of the Terrestrial Man
Samael Aun Weor, the bodhisattva of Samael, the Spirit of Fire, was born in Bogota, Colombia, South America as Víctor Manuel Gómez Rodríguez,. At a very early age, he was able to remember his past incarnations. Thus, he knew who he was.

He never identified with his Christian name since he knew that it was just a passing accident of life that soon disappears in time. Even though many people who knew him still like to use his Christian name.

At the age of eighteen, he came in contact with his Innermost through a maha-samadhi and met his Guru in the Internal Worlds.

After passing terrible ordeals in the physical world he was initiated in a Gnostic Temple of the Superior Worlds. Through his initiation he remembered his reincarnations in Atlantis, Lemuria, Hyperborea, and the Polar Race. Reaching the state of prajnaparamita he gained access to the cosmic Akashic Records (the memory of Nature) and thereafter went beyond the Polar Race, remembering past mahamanvantaras (Cosmic Days). This is how he came to know about the origin of the human being on this planet, a knowledge that he wrote in one of his books entitled Gnostic Anthropology.

He achieved the complete annihilation within himself of the subconsciousness, unconsciousness, and infraconsciousness through the techniques of meditation and sexual dynamics; thus he developed Supraconsciousness, which gave him the ability to investigate cosmic phenomena within all of the sephiroth of the Tree of Life. He also became able to consciously communicate with all of the sentient beings who inhabit the different spheres or dimensions, parallel universes of the cosmos. This is how he was able to bring into his physical brain a great deal of wisdom in relation to esotericism, mantras, invocations, Kabbalah, esoteric psychology, etc, etc, etc.

There were many times when he explained to his disciples the great difficulty he had in crystallizing into contemporary language, the wisdom that he received within the Internal Worlds. He needed to learn Sanskrit, Latin, Greek, and Hebrew in order to explain what was impossible to express in everyday language. This is why when one reads his books we find that they are impregnated with a vocabulary appropriate to the knowledge he expresses. (That is why this website has begun compiling an online glossary ). Any reader will improve his own language in a spiritual way when reading his books.

Samael Aun Weor achieved complete Self-realization at the age of sixty-one; thus at that age he passed through a terrible ordeal which allowed him to achieve the degree of a Resurrected Master and return into Shangri-La. Since then, he is operating anonymously in the physical world, while simultaneously continuing his mission from within the Internal Worlds.

This is how his Real Being, Samael, the Spirit of Fire, absorbed him completely within his bosom and became one with him.

http://gnosticteachings.org/the-teachings-of-gnosis/who-is-samael-aun-weor.html

[littleOne]

The author, Samael Aun Weor (his "internal" name) was a Colombian that started the Gnosis movement, and then church, in South America some time in the 60's (I believe). I learned about the gnosis when I was 17 and was very attracted to it. I became part of the Church and followed one of Samael's disciples until I was about 38 when I let go of all that. I did learn a lot about mysticism, occult knowledge, read about 20 of Samael's books and practiced their rituals to bring peace and love to earth. But I always felt that I would not make it, that I was doomed. There was this idea that we were always watched, judged, ask and you will be helped...but you are unworthy of it. It is not that they were tyrants, but it was a feeling you would get...I understand Roman, and I would not read that book again because I do not want to feel like that again. There are probably many truths there, but coated with this belief that Samael is the 7th Archangel that will judge this world as it enters into the new peaceful age of Aquarius.
I remember that knowing we were eternal beings I desperately wanted to believe that when I died that would be it, gone, nothing more, and I envied the atheist that believed that. No matter what the TRUTH may be, if there is such a thing, I am much better off feeling in peace and a wonderful part of the creation than a cursed soul.

[Tony]

First one needs a stable mind.


Tony

[ROMANWKT]

The author, Samael Aun Weor (his "internal" name) was a Colombian that started the Gnosis movement, and then church, in South America some time in the 60's (I believe). I learned about the gnosis when I was 17 and was very attracted to it. I became part of the Church and followed one of Samael's disciples until I was about 38 when I let go of all that. I did learn a lot about mysticism, occult knowledge, read about 20 of Samael's books and practiced their rituals to bring peace and love to earth. But I always felt that I would not make it, that I was doomed. There was this idea that we were always watched, judged, ask and you will be helped...but you are unworthy of it. It is not that they were tyrants, but it was a feeling you would get...I understand Roman, and I would not read that book again because I do not want to feel like that again. There are probably many truths there, but coated with this belief that Samael is the 7th Archangel that will judge this world as it enters into the new peaceful age of Aquarius.
I remember that knowing we were eternal beings I desperately wanted to believe that when I died that would be it, gone, nothing more, and I envied the atheist that believed that. No matter what the TRUTH may be, if there is such a thing, I am much better off feeling in peace and a wonderful part of the creation than a cursed soul.

Littleone I had never heard of this man before, but I go a long way back, 3 decades ago I was very deep into this knowledge, I had dumped it for my sanity, I am very here and dont stand for nonsense, we are being redirected from the astral with fearful events, we are to go to the astral, we all need to, Its been bugging me for a long time, we all must be astral conscious.

Thank and regards

roman

[ROMANWKT]

First one needs a stable mind.


Tony

Thank you Tony for your expressive opinion, read the book first my friend, and then tell us all the things that you cannot tell the goyem, as part of your tantric experiences, that you must not divulge to us the morons,

Blessed be the bull $hiters of this world

roman

[Tony]

First one needs a stable mind.


Tony

Thank you Tony for your expressive opinion, read the book first my friend, and then tell us all the things that you cannot tell the goyem, as part of your tantric experiences, that you must not divulge to us the morons,




Blessed be the bull $hiters of this world

roman



Dear Roman,
I rest my case.

Tony

[ROMANWKT]

First one needs a stable mind.


Tony

Thank you Tony for your expressive opinion, read the book first my friend, and then tell us all the things that you cannot tell the goyem, as part of your tantric experiences, that you must not divulge to us the morons,




Blessed be the bull $hiters of this world

roman



Dear Roman,
I rest my case.

Tony

Rest you may my friend

Regards as always

roman

[littleOne]

Littleone I had never heard of this man before, but I go a long way back, 3 decades ago I was very deep into this knowledge, I had dumped it for my sanity, I am very here and dont stand for nonsense, we are being redirected from the astral with fearful events, we are to go to the astral, we all need to, Its been bugging me for a long time, we all must be astral conscious.

Thank and regards

roman

Yes, I agree it is very important, I also believe it can be achieved in other ways, but it is important to protect and keep a healthy sexual energy.
Sexual energy is very powerful and that path could lead you to waking up your chakras very fast, but they say that even if you have been practicing "magic sex" for many years, just one fall brings to the beginning again. The Gnosis teaches that sexual energy is the Holy Spirit and that all sins are forgiven except those committed against the Holy Spirit. Also, if you are conserving your sexual energy but are not paying attention to your thoughts and purifying them, you could instead be feeding your dark side and becoming a powerful demon (maybe that is not the correct term) without realizing it.

I am not sure why you say that it is too late for you, too late for what? You can start at any age to conserve and transmute your sexual energy. Of course, the younger you start the better chance you have of advancing...or not, because the younger you are, the harder it is to control it, the more frustrating it is.
My teacher started at around 40 and was still practicing it when he died at 70+. He was a very wise and kind man with incredible eyes that seemed to pierce you through and could leave his body voluntarily...I do believe it works, but there are many other things in the Gnosis that do not feel right to me.

[ROMANWKT]

Littleone I had never heard of this man before, but I go a long way back, 3 decades ago I was very deep into this knowledge, I had dumped it for my sanity, I am very here and dont stand for nonsense, we are being redirected from the astral with fearful events, we are to go to the astral, we all need to, Its been bugging me for a long time, we all must be astral conscious.

Thank and regards

roman

Yes, I agree it is very important, I also believe it can be achieved in other ways, but it is important to protect and keep a healthy sexual energy.
Sexual energy is very powerful and that path could lead you to waking up your chakras very fast, but they say that even if you have been practicing "magic sex" for many years, just one fall brings to the beginning again. The Gnosis teaches that sexual energy is the Holy Spirit and that all sins are forgiven except those committed against the Holy Spirit. Also, if you are conserving your sexual energy but are not paying attention to your thoughts and purifying them, you could instead be feeding your dark side and becoming a powerful demon (maybe that is not the correct term) without realizing it.

I am not sure why you say that it is too late for you, too late for what? You can start at any age to conserve and transmute your sexual energy. Of course, the younger you start the better chance you have of advancing...or not, because the younger you are, the harder it is to control it, the more frustrating it is.
My teacher started at around 40 and was still practicing it when he died at 70+. He was a very wise and kind man with incredible eyes that seemed to pierce you through and could leave his body voluntarily...I do believe it works, but there are many other things in the Gnosis that do not feel right to me.

You are right my friend, but, but, but, Think or not think about it, you should read it and understand the depth, which I understand why you will not, age has a lot to do with sexual energy, and understand the partner that one may have, ??????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? it all has to be understood.

thank you and regards

roman

[Bongo]

Consent generates Karma.

Even unconscious consent.

This is one of the insidious tricks of the dark cabal.

unconscious consent does not account for murderers (War), rapists, pedophiles & various other scum being able to create karma for the people of nations that that are unaware of such atrocities being committed.... in fact even ones who are aware of what is going on but have not participated in it still does not create karma for them. Think of the researchers that have found out about their governments committing said acts, they have not participated in the act and did not consent to it at all even they will not pick up the karma for those atrocities.

When you subscribe to unconscious consent you have given them your conscious agreement to it. That in its self is why it is a trick. These people are creating karma all the time don't agree to lighten their load, let them work it of because it was them that created it.

[naste.de.lumina]

Consent generates Karma.

Even unconscious consent.

This is one of the insidious tricks of the dark cabal.

unconscious consent does not account for murderers (War), rapists, pedophiles & various other scum being able to create karma for the people of nations that that are unaware of such atrocities being committed.... in fact even ones who are aware of what is going on but have not participated in it still does not create karma for them. Think of the researchers that have found out about their governments committing said acts, they have not participated in the act and did not consent to it at all even they will not pick up the karma for those atrocities.

When you subscribe to unconscious consent you have given them your conscious agreement to it. That in its self is why it is a trick. These people are creating karma all the time don't agree to lighten their load, let them work it of because it was them that created it.

Example:

If the individual works for a bomb factory even serving coffee, and he is
aware of the ultimate goal. Even if it is not he who draws the pump or even that detonates.

Conscious awareness creates a frequency in the electromagnetic field in itself.

Failure informed consent creates a weaker karma, but still creates.

For example when it is induced to support a lie. Iraq War.

All the energy released in an action (creation, planning and implementation) must be counterbalanced.

This is how karma works. Levels of mental perceptions and choices (thoughts).

Karma and dharma = physical law of action and reaction.

It is my understanding.

Peace.

Naste.

[loungelizard]

Does this practice make you happy, Roman? May I ask why you find this particular practice so important? Does it bring you fulfilment, and more control over your own mind? How has it helped you? Do you do it as part of a discipline of other advanced methods? I'd like to hear more about your personal journey with regard to this material.

The practice of sacred sexuality is common to many ancient teachings, but it's the culmination of intense practice, study and meditation, when a state of stability has been attained . It's not something to be entered into lightly as the sexual energy is a very powerful force - it's like playing with fire, and can be very harmful, both mentally and physically.

Before we engage in any practice, we have to have trust in the person who is presenting the material: they need to reflect qualities that make the practice attractive. There is agitation apparent in your writing, and I'm curious about the reason for this.

[littleOne]

The concept of egregore is that there is a collective group mind made up of the energies of all the thoughts of the people in that area. There are town egregores, country egregores, and planet egregores. Basically thoughts are energy and the collective thoughts produce this "thought form" that surrounds us and influences our thoughts and feelings.

We have all created it, some have put heavier energy in it that weighs us down, other have put lighter energy in it that lifts us up, but it influences us all and it is a form of karma for all the population that lives in it. It is my belief that even if I am trying to put light energy into this egregore, I may have put dark, heavy energy into it in previous lives, or my children have done so because of some trauma growing up that I may have help create, or...so many possibilities, so I can't say I am paying for someone else's evilness. We have been creating this egregore for thousands and thousands of years and we all need to clean it up together. Yes, some are like a coal factory, throwing black heavy energy to it, but we are here for a reason, and we are probably not so innocent either because this is most probably not our first life on this planet.

I do understand that this is my way of viewing things and I may be very wrong but I just wanted to put it out there for consideration.

[sirdipswitch]

Horsepucky!! This guy, that wrote the book, is the very type of control from the Astral that I talk about. The Astral, is even controled by TPTB, and far more than this rock we call Earth. They grab hold of these stupid Guru types, and fill their head full of Horsepucky, then send them back here to wreak havock on the masses who believe in this horsepucky.

I have lived Evil, Mean and Nasty, untill this life, (a very looooong time. cc) and in this life I ain't no saint by any means, and I made the "jump to light speed", with the greatest of ease.

WE, are Immortal Spirit beings Of The Highest Order. And THAT, is why they keep throwing out all this horsepucky. To keep us from returning to that which WE TRUELY are.

Source, does not want us crawling home to Him on our knees, in Humble gratitude, but "Walkin Tall", and standing proud in our POWER as the true Immortal Spirits, that we are. We are Source. Act like it.


Hey Nancy, and Tony!!! Can ya tell that I just might agree with ya??? ccc.

[Sunny-side-up]

Hi roman

I haven't read the book yet but know what you are saying/feeling and realising.

Before I experienced adult knowledge, which came late to me, I was very holy in strength, the rising of one energy denies/cuts off the other and so grounds.

Is that along the lines of your post?

I go now to read!

The fist few lines remind me of Santos Bonacci words and knowledge in his 'Lawful awakening, sin and salvation' parts one and two, he talks about the Salts, we raise our Salt but also lose our Salts, we are of the sea. We can replenish our Salts but never our full purity.

[PurpleLama]

Truth and lies and many mixed up symbols that have nothing to do with one another. There is just enough true information to be dangerous, and just enough lies that the danger is assured.

My humble opinion of the proffered document. Sorry Roman, keep looking.

The highest and most valuable energies become available when the man and woman give freely and climax together. Only a sorcerer (one who seeks personal power, not to do the will of Universe) would withhold his/her energy from his/her partner.

This I know to be true, from my own experience. Those who ascribe to outside authorities may disagree, which is fine by me.

[ljwheat]

I for one must agree with NancyV.. We are not the sum of our thinking, entirely forced on us all, in reality came from the controlled teachers of this planet.

“Stop” for just one moment and meditate on what you were, just before you entered this human condition. This one step is all that’s needed to take your own “Green” pill of jumping out of the Matrix elusion we were brainwashed into everyday of our lives since birthing here.

This must read, is only yet another Matrix controller’s attempt to keep the “Red” pill firmly in place, and is only your choice to swallow.

The “red” pill is much easier to swallow, and live with the 99 percent of Matrix abductees that inhabit this planet of slavery and deception. it’s the biggest “click” or club going, get along or be an outcast.

Perfect you came into this condition and perfect you will move on to the next. Amnesia is the only way to avoid eternal boredom.

One life time is equal to one day of “Groundhogs Day in real life,” this is only My honest Opinion. Was a nice read, but no free chips with this sandwich of Gobble De Gook.

[bram]

Consent generates Karma.

Even unconscious consent.

This is one of the insidious tricks of the dark cabal.

unconscious consent does not account for murderers (War), rapists, pedophiles & various other scum being able to create karma for the people of nations that that are unaware of such atrocities being committed



Don't we hide behind our ignorance as an excuse? Of course, it's easier to believe the lies our governments tell us about the things that they do - whilst all the time inwardly knowing the truth - and then feeling the relief that we don't have to be responsible because of our ignorance. However, it's what we know that counts, not what we pretend not to know.

And in the uncountable lifetimes we have lived, we have all been murderers, rapists, paedophiles - the suffering we caused is the suffering we now experience. Its just the wheel of karma turning, turning, turning.....

[loungelizard]

Good morning Roman! I've now had time to have a more thorough look at the text you provided but I found very difficult to read and understand. It's not exactly a bundle of laughs is it?! :o The mixture of metaphor and instruction is just too obscure for me: I appreciate complex issues being presented in a simple and clear manner. But I persisted….a few things jumped out at me and I'd be interested in hearing your thoughts about a couple of them:

Why do you feel the information is aimed solely at men?

What do you understand by "When a virgin wants to incarnate her I Am, she should renounce Nirvana and incarnate in the body of a male"?

Can you explain how this works? "Having sexual connection, the seed still passes to the womb without the need of ejaculating the semen."

Is it true that he says if you ejaculate, just ONCE, you reverse your kundalini and fall into qlipoth or "the abyss"?

Why do you think he uses derogatory terms when talking of the ego? He appears to believe we have to "annihilate it".

I've also done some research, and read a couple of other pieces by him, and wonder if you find his opinions about homosexuality to be judgemental. For example, he writes "They are rotten seeds,…those who practise homosexuality and lesbianism, are lost cases, terribly malignant creatures. For these types of people all doors are closed, except the door of repentance…."

Speaking personally, this material is not for me. It is a basic amalgamation of the ancient teachings from the Buddha, from Wicca, from Hinduism, from the Tao… There is nothing new here, but it has been twisted and repackaged in - for me - a disturbing way, with more than a smattering of control through guilt.

Thanks anyway!

[ROMANWKT]

Good morning Roman! I've now had time to have a more thorough look at the text you provided but I found very difficult to read and understand. It's not exactly a bundle of laughs is it?! :o The mixture of metaphor and instruction is just too obscure for me: I appreciate complex issues being presented in a simple and clear manner. But I persisted….a few things jumped out at me and I'd be interested in hearing your thoughts about a couple of them:

Why do you feel the information is aimed solely at men?

What do you understand by "When a virgin wants to incarnate her I Am, she should renounce Nirvana and incarnate in the body of a male"?

Can you explain how this works? "Having sexual connection, the seed still passes to the womb without the need of ejaculating the semen."

Is it true that he says if you ejaculate, just ONCE, you reverse your kundalini and fall into qlipoth or "the abyss"?

Why do you think he uses derogatory terms when talking of the ego? He appears to believe we have to "annihilate it".

I've also done some research, and read a couple of other pieces by him, and wonder if you find his opinions about homosexuality to be judgemental. For example, he writes "They are rotten seeds,…those who practise homosexuality and lesbianism, are lost cases, terribly malignant creatures. For these types of people all doors are closed, except the door of repentance…."

Speaking personally, this material is not for me. It is a basic amalgamation of the ancient teachings from the Buddha, from Wicca, from Hinduism, from the Tao… There is nothing new here, but it has been twisted and repackaged in - for me - a disturbing way, with more than a smattering of control through guilt.

Thanks anyway!

At last, somebody bothered to read and ask questions, like a breath of fresh air, finish the book all of you, then its time to talk.

Regards

roman

[Tony]

More haste less speed

The answer is always right under our nose, and is not complicated.
Reason clears the mind, whereas speculation and fantasy don't.
Forums are not places of refined understanding.

If one truly wants to realise the truth, one has to make an effort.
We start by losing our pride. There are secret teachings, but teachings
are not handed out to those who chose to bang their fists on the key board,
rather than learn the scales.

There are those who enter 3 or 6 year - or lifetime - retreats in order to
study and practise, and receive such teachings,
but very few are willing to make such an effort.
Still there are simple practices for we house holders that work very well
in this turbulent age.

We must first take care of our body, speech and mind.
Then we can express this in our conduct...compassion.

To start we can use logic:

With some reflection it becomes obvious that nothing is permanent,
that everything passes with time, that all created things are transient.
It is sometimes more pleasant to delude ourselves into thinking that
the same situation will last.

Thus the truth of impermanence is forgotten. What should be done today,
is postponed until tomorrow. Knowing that some actions lead to
unhappiness and thinking that the change in habit can be effected later,
another opportunity for doing what results in a more healthy
state is neglected.

Unwilling to admit that life may end in the next instant, no effort is
made to make this instant as perfect as could be. Aware of the importance
of meditation and following precepts, still we ignore, and the mirror
of mind remains clouded.

The whole point of any practice (however weird) is to recognise the
true nature of our mind. And that is pure awareness.
In pure awareness everything makes sense, seeing that everything
arises our of causes and conditions, and has no power of its own.

Our body is merely a vehicle, our speech is an expression of compassion,
and our mind has the nature of pure clarity, whose insight can teach us
everything.

Frustration born from excessive activity and expectation is understandable
in a speedy must-have-it-now world. The slower we go the more we
understand, and the more insight is gained.

The modern world wants turmoil, and this stops people seeing clearly.



Tony

[ROMANWKT]

Tony, did you read the book, for all your words here, you offer all the chance to meditate and find inner peace, is that it, thats what you are constantly offering people, thats it,thats your spiritual goal????? or is there more my friend, read the book first, thats what this thread is about, not if I feel guilty where I stick my dick, and what you all think that I believe in, read the book first, then we can discuss about what this thread is about.

Regards

roman

[chocolate]

Hi Roman!

I congratulate you for finding parts of truths inside the work of Master Samael. I have read a lot of what he has written, and have heard a lot of the gnostic teachers speak on various subjects. I don't know if you have visited the website Gnostic Radio (http://gnosticradio.org/). If you haven't you might enjoy it a lot, there are free audio and written lectures on many subjects of what people call 'spirituality'.

As I already see here, you will not find many like-minded individuals easily, because those ideas require an internal dialogue, something many avoid, or don't recognize as necessary.
I also know I am not a very popular 'member' with my views, and that is totally okay with me. For as long as I can see other human beings walking on the same road as I am at present, I will stay in the background and pop in on occasion.

When you think about 'sex' as being ( oftentimes ) referred to as the 'devil' you should be a bit easy on yourself. The fact that you realize you -- and all of us probably -- have been miss-educated, miss-lead and miss-used is sometimes enough.

Yes, the kundalini energy can do a lot of good to the human body, if it is mastered to run in its original direction -- upwards. The most important for me is the mutual exchange of energy and the respect / appreciation you have with your partner -- your wife in your case I suppose. I am sure you just think of this a bit on the extreme side of it, but perhaps you have a stable and fulfilling relationship in your life, even if the energy doesn't necessarily run 'upwards'. This is not a life of just black or white we are living, all shades in between also count.

( your chances hasn't passed, I can tell you that form my own experience )

I will not make this into a long post about the way we have ( not ) been brought up, but I also wanted to tell you that you are on the right track, regardless of your age, or life prior to that.
We all are, if we are still able to find different points of view, and don't necessarily decide to 'disagree' with them. A see a lot of opinions, and disagreements too, but this is not what it is all about. If anyone feels one knows everything about everything already, and in the proper way, than I would be surprised to see them living on Earth right now.

There are quite a few books that you may want to read -- if still in the mood for them -- and I can recommend the two I have read ( currently reading ):
Secret Teachings of Moses by Aunel va Daath (http://gnosticteachings.org/store.html#!/~/product/category=1363711&id=5543689)
The Gnostic Bible: The Pistis Sophia Unveiled, a book by Samael Aun Weor (http://gnosticteachings.org/books-by-samael-aun-weor/the-pistis-sophia-unveiled.html)

Stay well!

[DNA]

The truth that we have all seeked is right here, we the humanity have been lied too and are being manipulated by the system of slavery, if you have made the mistakes as one as myself, then its too late and you will understand why?? I ask you all to read this 100 page book and understand this as what I had meddled with 30 odd years ago, I had failed and did not understand the real implication of what you are about to find out, I had been a womanizer for the past 40 years, and am now paying the price for my ignorance 25554 I hope you have the chance to save your existence, as my chance has passed.

Warmest regards to you all

roman

I find it quite interesting that we are talking about something very similar over here on Dawn's thread Meditation and any work with Chi Prana may invite possession by Djinn especially page 9 (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?69395-Meditation-and-any-work-with-Chi-or-Prana-may-invite-possession-by-Jinn/page9) I hyperlinked page 9 because we are just all up in this topic of sexuality and the astral.

I just find it ironic that these two pages are both on page 1 of What's new on Avalon



EDIT-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
----------Well I just skimmed through Roman's book. No offense to you Roman but the book is some dense high jargon religious dogma trying to sell a new slant. Far too pretentious for my taste.
All of what is stated can be said simply and direct without a religious intermediary.

[loungelizard]

At last, somebody bothered to read and ask questions, like a breath of fresh air, finish the book all of you, then its time to talk.

Regards

roman

Can we start the discussion now Roman? Why do we have to wait? It doesn't seem that there are many on this thread intending to read the material! ;)
Could you please reply to the questions I raised, and we can go from there.

Thanks.

[Tony]

Tony, did you read the book, for all your words here, you offer all the chance to meditate and find inner peace, is that it, thats what you are constantly offering people, thats it,thats your spiritual goal????? or is there more my friend, read the book first, thats what this thread is about, not if I feel guilty where I stick my dick, and what you all think that I believe in, read the book first, then we can discuss about what this thread is about.

Regards

roman


Once one finds inner peace and a still mind, then one can realise
one's own true nature. Some call that enlightenment, pure perception.

What do you want Roman?
Whatever it is, will not be found in a book.
Experience is beyond words.

Silent meditation is part of the process to pure perception.
This ones does for oneself.




'Being' locked in the mind

This is our essential being imprisoned in our thoughts, thus creating a totally neurotic world.
Can't possibly happen? It is precisely what is happening. This is the confused state in which we live.

Partial and confused ideas are pumped into us when we were young, and we then spend the rest of
our lives in confused assumptions. How many people do you know who have an original, clear thought?

It is because of this confusion that we get angry and blame others, which turns back on us and we
then blame ourselves.... That is the locked-in syndrome of the mind.

There are two approaches to solving this. One is to let it run its natural course, which means it will
only get worse, like an uncontrolled headless chicken running around bumping into things.
The other approach is to identify the problem and face up to it, which is painful and takes guts,
but means that the process of undoing the lock has started.

It's all about opening the 'lock' of the mind!

Firstly we have to recognise that we are suffering.
Secondly we have to recognise the cause of that suffering.
Thirdly we have to find a method to relieve that suffering.
Fourthly we have to apply the method that relieves the suffering.

If you are reading this, you have already recognise that you are suffering.

Now we have to look at the cause of suffering: 'I am'!
“I have identified with the thoughts in my mind so strongly that I believe them to be me.
They now rule my life, and ruin everyone else's ;-) Remember: we are all involved and it
is painful and takes guts.

However, just knowing this is not enough, because we then have to find a method to release
ourselves. And - most importantly of all - we have to apply that method.

The method is understanding meditation. Understanding is the quick release.
If we don't understand, we are just playing mental games, and creating more confusion.
Meditation is not a life-style activity: we must resolve that the real is within the unreal.

Freedom is the release from the prison of mental torments in the mind.

Study.
Reflect.
Apply.




Tony

[DNA]

More haste less speed

The answer is always right under our nose, and is not complicated.
Reason clears the mind, whereas speculation and fantasy don't.
Forums are not places of refined understanding.

If one truly wants to realise the truth, one has to make an effort.
We start by losing our pride. There are secret teachings, but teachings
are not handed out to those who chose to bang their fists on the key board,
rather than learn the scales.

There are those who enter 3 or 6 year - or lifetime - retreats in order to
study and practise, and receive such teachings,
but very few are willing to make such an effort.
Still there are simple practices for we house holders that work very well
in this turbulent age.

We must first take care of our body, speech and mind.
Then we can express this in our conduct...compassion.

To start we can use logic:

With some reflection it becomes obvious that nothing is permanent,
that everything passes with time, that all created things are transient.
It is sometimes more pleasant to delude ourselves into thinking that
the same situation will last.

Thus the truth of impermanence is forgotten. What should be done today,
is postponed until tomorrow. Knowing that some actions lead to
unhappiness and thinking that the change in habit can be effected later,
another opportunity for doing what results in a more healthy
state is neglected.

Unwilling to admit that life may end in the next instant, no effort is
made to make this instant as perfect as could be. Aware of the importance
of meditation and following precepts, still we ignore, and the mirror
of mind remains clouded.

The whole point of any practice (however weird) is to recognise the
true nature of our mind. And that is pure awareness.
In pure awareness everything makes sense, seeing that everything
arises our of causes and conditions, and has no power of its own.

Our body is merely a vehicle, our speech is an expression of compassion,
and our mind has the nature of pure clarity, whose insight can teach us
everything.

Frustration born from excessive activity and expectation is understandable
in a speedy must-have-it-now world. The slower we go the more we
understand, and the more insight is gained.

The modern world wants turmoil, and this stops people seeing clearly.



Tony



Cherish those who seek truth but be weary of those who claim to have found it
Voltaire

Tony always trying to offer enlightenment.
If you read between the lines what Tony is really offering is his status as guru.

[Eram]

Hi Roman,

If I recall the threads that you started in the last two years, there seems to be some sort of pattern, which I find interesting to discuss here, because it seems to lead to some friction with several posters (including me).
It seems to me that every time that you read a (lengthy) book or video that you agree with, you post it here on Avalon with the strong suggestion that everyone should read it and afterwards there will be time to discuss the matter.
All questions that are asked or opinions that are offered by people who didn't read or watched are dismissed at once with a further strong suggestion to first read or watch.
Then, when some people finally have read/watched the information, some discussion takes place, but never really with you participating.
To me, it seems that you are actually pushing your opinion about certain topics here and have no interest what so ever to have an open debate about it's content. You have drawn your conclusions and everyone who doesn't fully agrees has it wrong.

Maybe, on a discussion forum with intelligent, independent thinking people, it would be more fruitful if you offer more room for debate and or other ideas. It would be nice if you would be more open for other points of view and take more time to explain why you see it your way.

Having said that, much of what you offer as information on Avalon appears to me as parts of truth, mixed with contaminated, false ideas, filled with too much doom and gloom and many ideas (like the sex thing) would need deeper investigation before taking it as truth.
Before I would consider such an extreme view as with withholding sex valid, someone would have to explain it to me in ways that I can track and validate it for myself.

[loungelizard]

If you read between the lines what Tony is really offering is his status as guru.

You know, I've never understood the mindset of people who leap to attack those who share their ideas. Aren't we all here doing that? I thought we were supposed to discuss content here and not make personal attacks.

Everyone offers something of value in their posts.

In fact, you could say that the very act of posting our thoughts means we all consider what we have to say is of sufficient importance to warrant being read - and so everyone thinks they are a guru/teacher. It's hypocritical to think otherwise.

Can we now get back to the discussion, which could actually be interesting. :focus:

[DNA]

If you read between the lines what Tony is really offering is his status as guru.

You know, I've never understood the mindset of people who leap to attack those who share their ideas. Aren't we all here doing that? I thought we were supposed to discuss content here and not make personal attacks.

Everyone offers something of value in their posts.

In fact, you could say that the very act of posting our thoughts means we all consider what we have to say is of sufficient importance to warrant being read - and so everyone thinks they are a guru/teacher. It's hypocritical to think otherwise.

Can we now get back to the discussion, which could actually be interesting. :focus:

Read Eram's post above.
If you want discussion I do not think you will find it here.
Good Luck though.
Nothing mean spirited here, sometimes we just have to bump folks once in a while :nhl_checking:
Tony's been here a long time.
I'm speaking more to new folks in hopes they don't fall for his crap.
It's really an altruistic gesture on my part.

[Tony]

More haste less speed

The answer is always right under our nose, and is not complicated.
Reason clears the mind, whereas speculation and fantasy don't.
Forums are not places of refined understanding.

If one truly wants to realise the truth, one has to make an effort.
We start by losing our pride. There are secret teachings, but teachings
are not handed out to those who chose to bang their fists on the key board,
rather than learn the scales.

There are those who enter 3 or 6 year - or lifetime - retreats in order to
study and practise, and receive such teachings,
but very few are willing to make such an effort.
Still there are simple practices for we house holders that work very well
in this turbulent age.

We must first take care of our body, speech and mind.
Then we can express this in our conduct...compassion.

To start we can use logic:

With some reflection it becomes obvious that nothing is permanent,
that everything passes with time, that all created things are transient.
It is sometimes more pleasant to delude ourselves into thinking that
the same situation will last.

Thus the truth of impermanence is forgotten. What should be done today,
is postponed until tomorrow. Knowing that some actions lead to
unhappiness and thinking that the change in habit can be effected later,
another opportunity for doing what results in a more healthy
state is neglected.

Unwilling to admit that life may end in the next instant, no effort is
made to make this instant as perfect as could be. Aware of the importance
of meditation and following precepts, still we ignore, and the mirror
of mind remains clouded.

The whole point of any practice (however weird) is to recognise the
true nature of our mind. And that is pure awareness.
In pure awareness everything makes sense, seeing that everything
arises our of causes and conditions, and has no power of its own.

Our body is merely a vehicle, our speech is an expression of compassion,
and our mind has the nature of pure clarity, whose insight can teach us
everything.

Frustration born from excessive activity and expectation is understandable
in a speedy must-have-it-now world. The slower we go the more we
understand, and the more insight is gained.

The modern world wants turmoil, and this stops people seeing clearly.



Tony



Cherish those who seek truth but be weary of those who claim to have found it
Voltaire

Tony always trying to offer enlightenment.
If you read between the lines what Tony is really offering is his status as guru.


Kill logic and reason is that it?

[DNA]

More haste less speed

The answer is always right under our nose, and is not complicated.
Reason clears the mind, whereas speculation and fantasy don't.
Forums are not places of refined understanding.

If one truly wants to realise the truth, one has to make an effort.
We start by losing our pride. There are secret teachings, but teachings
are not handed out to those who chose to bang their fists on the key board,
rather than learn the scales.

There are those who enter 3 or 6 year - or lifetime - retreats in order to
study and practise, and receive such teachings,
but very few are willing to make such an effort.
Still there are simple practices for we house holders that work very well
in this turbulent age.

We must first take care of our body, speech and mind.
Then we can express this in our conduct...compassion.

To start we can use logic:

With some reflection it becomes obvious that nothing is permanent,
that everything passes with time, that all created things are transient.
It is sometimes more pleasant to delude ourselves into thinking that
the same situation will last.

Thus the truth of impermanence is forgotten. What should be done today,
is postponed until tomorrow. Knowing that some actions lead to
unhappiness and thinking that the change in habit can be effected later,
another opportunity for doing what results in a more healthy
state is neglected.

Unwilling to admit that life may end in the next instant, no effort is
made to make this instant as perfect as could be. Aware of the importance
of meditation and following precepts, still we ignore, and the mirror
of mind remains clouded.

The whole point of any practice (however weird) is to recognise the
true nature of our mind. And that is pure awareness.
In pure awareness everything makes sense, seeing that everything
arises our of causes and conditions, and has no power of its own.

Our body is merely a vehicle, our speech is an expression of compassion,
and our mind has the nature of pure clarity, whose insight can teach us
everything.

Frustration born from excessive activity and expectation is understandable
in a speedy must-have-it-now world. The slower we go the more we
understand, and the more insight is gained.

The modern world wants turmoil, and this stops people seeing clearly.



Tony



Cherish those who seek truth but be weary of those who claim to have found it
Voltaire

Tony always trying to offer enlightenment.
If you read between the lines what Tony is really offering is his status as guru.


Kill logic and reason is that it?

You talk about how folks need to stop reading forums/books for spirituality and instead meditate. All the while typing up 5000 word manifestos for folks to read while telling them to stop reading forums and instead meditate. Isn't that a kind of hypocrisy? Wouldn't it be better to use a three line poem or a haiku as a gentle reminder to meditate instead of insulting folks with finger wagging preachy Buddhism?

[Bongo]

Consent generates Karma.

Even unconscious consent.

This is one of the insidious tricks of the dark cabal.

unconscious consent does not account for murderers (War), rapists, pedophiles & various other scum being able to create karma for the people of nations that that are unaware of such atrocities being committed



Don't we hide behind our ignorance as an excuse? Of course, it's easier to believe the lies our governments tell us about the things that they do - whilst all the time inwardly knowing the truth - and then feeling the relief that we don't have to be responsible because of our ignorance. However, it's what we know that counts, not what we pretend not to know.

And in the uncountable lifetimes we have lived, we have all been murderers, rapists, paedophiles - the suffering we caused is the suffering we now experience. Its just the wheel of karma turning, turning, turning.....

Sorry Roman this isn't relevant to your thread, although I do want to address this.

Some do hide behind ignorance yes but I am aware that the government (that I haven't voted for once i might add) are trying to start wars, diverting funds from projects that would help the nation, creating projects that hinder the nation, hiding pedophiles and rapists and murderers in high places and lots more. This does not mean I am going to accumulate karma for their actions in committing these acts.

I am definitely on the same page as littleOne & naste.de.lumina with their understanding of karma and egregore but I have to bring up this example

There are many aliens here at earth now, some good, some bad. The good guys are reluctant to do anything due to the fact that if they do anything they will accumulate karma, now these guys are not unaware of what is going on here on earth they are very aware, they have much more knowledge than us about what is going on and yet they still chose to do nothing, obviously we won't learn anything if we are saved but they would also accumulate karma if any intervention was taken. The knowledge and awareness of what is going on is their and they take no action to help us knowing full well what will happen and still don't accumulate karma because of it.

They understand it is not their created game or a game they want to take part in, they see the game for what it is and decide that they don't want anything to do with it. Their observation of the effects of the game without entering the game does not have karmic repercussions on them but they are aware of what is happening and that the ones playing the game accepted to play. The participators agreement is very relevant in this situation. Now here on earth we all agreed to take part in the original game of earth, once here our unresolved games (past life karmic cycle) gets set up with the required people and we are free to create new games also. Any game created of karmic cycle is relevant to the participators others can join if they want but they ultimately do have a choice whether to enter or not and if they choose not to they won't accumulate karma because they didn't want to play. What is happening here on earth is like the film Inception except with games instead of dreams. A game within a game within a game and on and on. If a game is presented to you, you need to think long and hard about whether to agree and enter it, but if you choose not to enter it your awareness of it will not make you accumulate karma because of it.

[loungelizard]

to DNA...

We are all teachers. We are all students.
We are all free to give others the label of teacher.
We are all free to play the role of teacher.
We are all free to play the role of student.
These labels are interchangeable.

What is the problem here?

[ulli]

And I'm ordering you to look at this picture, ROMAN

https://fbcdn-sphotos-g-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/t1.0-9/1979735_10152282725280999_7318146356254297800_n.jpg

For at least two hours.

Then meditate on this (for 45 minutes daily)

https://fbcdn-sphotos-h-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-frc3/t1.0-9/10273436_244750762377817_5244825049050622688_n.jpg

[Tony]

More haste less speed

The answer is always right under our nose, and is not complicated.
Reason clears the mind, whereas speculation and fantasy don't.
Forums are not places of refined understanding.

If one truly wants to realise the truth, one has to make an effort.
We start by losing our pride. There are secret teachings, but teachings
are not handed out to those who chose to bang their fists on the key board,
rather than learn the scales.

There are those who enter 3 or 6 year - or lifetime - retreats in order to
study and practise, and receive such teachings,
but very few are willing to make such an effort.
Still there are simple practices for we house holders that work very well
in this turbulent age.

We must first take care of our body, speech and mind.
Then we can express this in our conduct...compassion.

To start we can use logic:

With some reflection it becomes obvious that nothing is permanent,
that everything passes with time, that all created things are transient.
It is sometimes more pleasant to delude ourselves into thinking that
the same situation will last.

Thus the truth of impermanence is forgotten. What should be done today,
is postponed until tomorrow. Knowing that some actions lead to
unhappiness and thinking that the change in habit can be effected later,
another opportunity for doing what results in a more healthy
state is neglected.

Unwilling to admit that life may end in the next instant, no effort is
made to make this instant as perfect as could be. Aware of the importance
of meditation and following precepts, still we ignore, and the mirror
of mind remains clouded.

The whole point of any practice (however weird) is to recognise the
true nature of our mind. And that is pure awareness.
In pure awareness everything makes sense, seeing that everything
arises our of causes and conditions, and has no power of its own.

Our body is merely a vehicle, our speech is an expression of compassion,
and our mind has the nature of pure clarity, whose insight can teach us
everything.

Frustration born from excessive activity and expectation is understandable
in a speedy must-have-it-now world. The slower we go the more we
understand, and the more insight is gained.

The modern world wants turmoil, and this stops people seeing clearly.



Tony



Cherish those who seek truth but be weary of those who claim to have found it
Voltaire

Tony always trying to offer enlightenment.
If you read between the lines what Tony is really offering is his status as guru.


Kill logic and reason is that it?

You talk about how folks need to stop reading forums/books for spirituality and instead meditate. All the while typing up 5000 word manifestos for folks to read while telling them to stop reading forums and instead meditate. Isn't that a kind of hypocrisy? Wouldn't it be better to use a three line poem or a haiku as a gentle reminder to meditate instead of insulting folks with finger wagging preachy Buddhism?



Do you tell everyone how to write?

"A stable mind".

Is that simple enough?

[ROMANWKT]

by Samael Aun Weor in english - download
You can download all the books listed below in one zip archive HERE or you can download each one.
We recommend you to check out the www.gnosticteaching.org site for their on line books (on Books by Samael Aun Weor section), with polished translation, and for printed books.
1950 THE PERFECT MATRIMONY  / 1961
1950 THE REVOLUTION OF BEELZEBUB
1951 ZODIACAL COURSES
1952 OCCULT MEDICINE AND PRACTICAL MAGIC 1978
1952 The BOOK OF THE VIRGIN of CARMEN
1952 CHRIST CONSCIOUNSNESS
1953 THE SEVEN WORDS
1954 MANUAL OF PRACTICAL MAGIC
1954 IGNEOUS ROSE
1954 TREATISE OF SEXUAL ALCHEMY
1955 THE MYSTERIES OF THE FIRE
1956 GREATER MISTERIES  (or Major Misteries)
1959 ESOTERIC TRATISE OF THEURGY
1959 CHRIST WILL
1959 THE YELLOW BOOK
1959 LOGOS MANTRAM THEURGY
1960 MESSAGE OF AQUARIUS
1961 THE PERFECT MATRIMONY
1961 INTRODUCCTION TO THE GNOSIS
1962 THE MYSTERIES OF LIFE AND DEATH
1963 MARRIAGE DIVORCE TANTRISM 
1964 DISSOLVING THE I (1963-1964)
1964 THE SOCIAL CHRIST
1965 THE BOOK OF THE DEAD
1965 SPIRITUAL POWER OF SOUND (The Science of Music)
1967 BUDDHA NECKLACE
1967 ESOTERIC TREATISE OF HERMETIC ASTROLOGY
1968 THE SOLAR BODIES
1969 MAGIC RUNES
1969 MY RETURN INTO TIBET (Cosmic teachings of a Lama)
1969 ESOTERIC COURSE OF KABBALAH
1970 FUNDAMENTAL EDUCATION
1970 BEYOND DEATH
1970 THE PARSIFAL UNVEILED
1971 THE MYSTERY OF THE GOLDEN BLOSSOM
1972 THE THREE MOUNTAINS
1972 LOOKING AT THE MYSTERY
1973 AZTEC CHRISTIC MAGIC
1973 YES THERE IS HELL, EVIL, KARMA
1974 THE SECRET DOCTRINE OF ANAHUAC
1975 TREATISE OF REVOLUTIONARY PSYCHOLOGY
1975 THE GREAT REBELLION
1978 THE INITIATIC PATH IN THE ARCANE OF THE TAROT AND KABBALAH
1978 GNOSTIC ANTHROPOLOGY
1978 OCCULT MEDICINE AND PRACTICAL MAGIC
1980 FOR THE FEW
1983 PISTIS SOFIA UNVEILED
19__  THE REVOLUTION OF THE DIALECTIC
19__ EXERCISES OF LAMASERY
            INTERVIEW by RADIO ICUR 1977
            INTERVIEW with VM SAW 1977
            THE RINGS OF THE ALCYONE
and                    LECTURES by SAMAEL AUN WEOR (PDFs in zip archive)

More books on gnosticteachings.org, (entire or partial) :  Fundamental Notions Of Endocrinology And Criminology (1957),  Alchemy and Kabbalah (1969),  Mayan Mysteries (1977)

http://www.samaelaunweor.ro/1%20download_eng.html

[Snowflower]

I read this thread. The thread convinces me I do not want to read the book. I'm not going down a path of control through fear ever again.

[Flash]

Thank you Ulli, i will do it to, and we may then report our meditation right?


And I'm ordering you to look at this picture, ROMAN

https://fbcdn-sphotos-g-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/t1.0-9/1979735_10152282725280999_7318146356254297800_n.jpg

For at least two hours.

Then meditate on this (for 45 minutes daily)

https://fbcdn-sphotos-h-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-frc3/t1.0-9/10273436_244750762377817_5244825049050622688_n.jpg

[ROMANWKT]

Well, well, well, what a bunch of pussies, I posted this on Avalon and TheOneTruth at the same time, gave a Dramatic intro which included my womanising for effects and 100 page book and watched THE OH so spiritual monkeys at work, as it started to progress I called some people to watch this FEAR from so called grown and stable spiritual elite full of care and concern.

I Waiting for some idiot to actually read the Fking book first, before opinionating, but NO my stupid mistake.

Not all of you but most of you showed concern and I thank you, but you did not read the fking book.

Pearls to swine my friends, pearls to swine.

In this book are pearls, if only you gave yourself, your overintellectual brain a chance, he divulged things that others had been killed for, you fearmongering pussies.

Why did the Roman Catholic Church exterminates the Gnostics, why were they underground for 2000 years

Some of you are so fking stupid, you shame me. Its amazing that you managed to learn how to breathe.

Dont Like, Dont Read, Keep your nonsense and opinions to your self

Can you not by now discern, and read between the line of what is written, Do you think I am going to have sex hissing like a fking snake, I would get my face smacked and get my balls kicked inn, Grow up Oh wise ones.

I will not discuss this book with you Guys, stay where you are, you will never move on or progress with an attitude, talk about being negative

Warmest regards as ever to you all, dumb or not

roman

[Catsquotl]

<message deleted>

Not constuctive, and raises resentment....

With Love
Eelco

[Grizz Griswold]

Don't give up yet Roman, Iv'e been trying to get through the book and yes I am very interested. But I would't be able to discuss anything about it till I have a better understanding. Some of us are still trying to absorb the material. Your friend .....Grizz

[ROMANWKT]

Lol, Really?

What is it to you?
With Mark Passio I took the gamble, listened to the first 12 episode's and did not find it interesting. Asked you repeatedly then to sort of tell in your own words what his work meant to you. Apart from the fact that you finally saw the truth and that I should maybe listen more.. You did not offer your insights if my recollection of the facts are valid that is.
(I have a terrible memory)

Anyway as a father and provider working too much etc. I like to use my time on thing I know that are valuable for me.
So far you have not offered any contructive information on what pearls the book may hold.. Some people skimmed the book, even started reading a few pages and did not find what you seem to have gotten from it.

Now what does that tell you. That we are stupid? ungratefull sons of ******* for not reading Roman's latest discovery?

With Love
Eelco

I am sorry that you have a bad memory I have no way of knowing that, I will not waste my time telling you things that you will not remember, I work 6 days a week 10 hour day, your on the wrong page, or have you forgotten.

Regards

roman

[Delight]

Warmest regards as ever to you all, dumb or not

roman

This seems like an un-necessary raging post and actually seems not triggered by what I saw in the other posts. It suggests that the book was not all that helpful if it taught the poster to use a word that is so beautiful as a curse. My kitties smile ruefully to hear that men believe there is a value in using what they (and I) know is really furry, sweet, purring and loving as a curse.


"Curses from the mouth of the mind of heart shrunk cripples. Small, shriveled misers of divine flow, what COULD they know?" Kitty Pussie Cat Philosopher

Just

http://d202m5krfqbpi5.cloudfront.net/books/1166553297l/13484.jpg

[ROMANWKT]

Warmest regards as ever to you all, dumb or not

roman

This seems like an un-necessary raging post and actually seems not triggered by what I saw in the other posts. It suggests that the book was not all that helpful if it taught the poster to use a word that is so beautiful as a curse. My kitties smile ruefully to hear that men believe there is a value in using what they (and I) know is really furry, sweet, purring and loving as a curse.


"Curses from the mouth of the mind of heart shrunk cripples. Small, shriveled misers of divine flow, what COULD they know?" Kitty Pussie Cat Philosopher

Just

http://d202m5krfqbpi5.cloudfront.net/books/1166553297l/13484.jpg

Thank you Delight, these here pussies need big time training

Warmest regards

roman

[Catsquotl]

your on the wrong page, or have you forgotten.

Regards

roman

Yup wrong Page, sorry about that.. Won't happen again.

With Love
Eelco

[loungelizard]

Roman

I took the time to read the material you posted.

I asked you a few questions to get your take on a couple of things.

You did not reply.

You did not enter into any discussion.

I don't understand what you want from people :confused:

If you want to discuss the material, let's discuss the material.

[ROMANWKT]

your on the wrong page, or have you forgotten.

Regards

roman

Yup wrong Page, sorry about that.. Won't happen again.

With Love
Eelco

Dear Catsquot

I do not dabble in this information, If I bring this information up for people to check it out, its because there is something that we should at least look into, I do this 24/7, I had not had a holiday for the past 20 years, this is all I do my friend, and those that know me, will tell you I do not play games, and I dont dabble, and have no time for Bull**** in respect to what I do, I have absolutely no patience with dabblers, one either does or does not, thats who I am and always have been.

I apologies if I had upset you, I am not upset with you, apologies

roman

[ROMANWKT]

Roman

I took the time to read the material you posted.

I asked you a few questions to get your take on a couple of things.

You did not reply.

You did not enter into any discussion.

I don't understand what you want from people :confused:

If you want to discuss the material, let's discuss the material.

Hi loungelizard

So sorry, I was waiting for the pussies to get over the shock of somebody asking them to read a book, I am not a Master, or a Guru, you should ask the professed Gurus who roam this web site.

Regards and thank you

roman

[Shezbeth]

I do not dabble in this information, If I bring this information up for people to check it out, its because there is something that we should at least look into, I do this 24/7, I had not had a holiday for the past 20 years, this is all I do my friend, and those that know me, will tell you I do not play games, and I dont dabble, and have no time for Bull**** in respect to what I do, I have absolutely no patience with dabblers, one either does or does not, thats who I am and always have been.

This might seem unrelated, but does the 'name' Shadderfer mean anything to you? He said something similar to me about 'dabblers' in an unrelated forum.

I appreciate your conviction to the information you provide. Mark Passio was a breath of fresh air (for the most part) as he echoed perceptions and dispositions I had reached, held, and maintained as being either 'perceivably true' or 'reasonably probable'.

I have not yet read the book you present, though I saved it for later perusal. I will get to it eventually but have other responsibilities, obligations, time constraints, and interests (including OTHER more LENGTHY books) that are more pressing (not to mention less dictatorial),

I will say, your demeanor in this particular thread is not exactly a glowing recommendation as to the veracity of the book. If the proof can be said to be in the pudding, I am unimpressed.

Surely you have heard that what is right and correct for one person is not necessarily right and correct for all?

My advice: Less vitriol, less rhetoric, more veritas. And yes, I know you did not ask for advice, but neither did I ask your permission to give it. ^_~

[panopticon]

Well, well, well, what a bunch of pussies, I posted this on Avalon and TheOneTruth at the same time, gave a Dramatic intro which included my womanising for effects and 100 page book and watched THE OH so spiritual monkeys at work, as it started to progress I called some people to watch this FEAR from so called grown and stable spiritual elite full of care and concern.

I Waiting for some idiot to actually read the Fking book first, before opinionating, but NO my stupid mistake.

Not all of you but most of you showed concern and I thank you, but you did not read the fking book.

Pearls to swine my friends, pearls to swine.

In this book are pearls, if only you gave yourself, your overintellectual brain a chance, he divulged things that others had been killed for, you fearmongering pussies.

Why did the Roman Catholic Church exterminates the Gnostics, why were they underground for 2000 years

Some of you are so fking stupid, you shame me. Its amazing that you managed to learn how to breathe.

Dont Like, Dont Read, Keep your nonsense and opinions to your self

Can you not by now discern, and read between the line of what is written, Do you think I am going to have sex hissing like a fking snake, I would get my face smacked and get my balls kicked inn, Grow up Oh wise ones.

I will not discuss this book with you Guys, stay where you are, you will never move on or progress with an attitude, talk about being negative

Warmest regards as ever to you all, dumb or not

roman

Get your hand off it Roman.

I downloaded the book, read a few pages, wasn't impressed, so didn't contribute.

My understanding is not based in judeo-christian mythology and so does not involve a personified deity or his invented opponent.

When I read all the stuff about Lucifer, Jehovah, the garden of Eden and some of the other sections in this book I decided to not read it further in depth (though I skimmed the rest). Take this as an example:


Before the new Aquarian Age begins, all nations will have to pay their great karmic debts; there will be war between East and West for the good of humanity; this is what Lord Jehovah says. We know that the Orient will win the war.
“In the Aquarian Age, capital will be decapitated;” “The United States will be punished;” so it is written in the Law. The Vatican will be bombarded and destroyed by blood and fire. Soon, it will pay its horrible debts. Spain will become transformed; all of Europe will become totally sovietized. The Americas will form a great confederation during the sign of Aquarius. They shall fight by land, sea and air, even in the poles; the Orient will win. In the year 2,018, even flashlights or portable lamps will be atomic.


Come on... Atomic flash lights in 4 years? All of Europe is going to become "Sovietized"?

Anyway, it didn't take me long to recognise the underlying Theosophy teachings, even if I was skim reading. Old Blavatsky would be proud of ya Roman.

Anyway, good luck on your mission or whatever and I hope it all works out well for you.

-- Pan

[Milneman]

Wow.

Allow me to shed the pussy role for a moment and adopt the hat of brutal honesty.

Troll

BAD ROMAN!

SPANK!

If this stuff is supposed to provide some kind of well being, then why perchance do you end up ranting, as you did, in post #50? If anything, you've actually given me a good reason not to read your material on the grounds that it's clearly not working to help you find any inner peace.

As for the rest of us, I sincerely hope we've all acquired the ability to take what we like and leave the rest.

I'm a student. I have to read. I love to read, I want to read! Right now I'm studying for finals so my time for reading is limited. Loungelizard (who you will soon realize IS a scholar and a gentleman) is not only great at debate but also an eager and willing participant. Your shutting him down only does you a disservice, sir. I've interacted with him on a couple of threads and found his conversation not only enlightening, but he even has the knack of being able to help me see things in text/discussion that I never would've seen had I not discussed the matters with him. Again, it seems to me that if there are pearls in this material that give wisdom the results are not evident in your behavior here.

Leave the room. Go play some pool and try to forget your philosophy for a while, sir. When you return perhaps you will have spent the temper tantrum and we can discuss the issues of this material as mature adults.

[ROMANWKT]

I do not dabble in this information, If I bring this information up for people to check it out, its because there is something that we should at least look into, I do this 24/7, I had not had a holiday for the past 20 years, this is all I do my friend, and those that know me, will tell you I do not play games, and I dont dabble, and have no time for Bull**** in respect to what I do, I have absolutely no patience with dabblers, one either does or does not, thats who I am and always have been.

This might seem unrelated, but does the 'name' Shadderfer mean anything to you? He said something similar to me about 'dabblers' in an unrelated forum.

I appreciate your conviction to the information you provide. Mark Passio was a breath of fresh air (for the most part) as he echoed perceptions and dispositions I had reached, held, and maintained as being either 'perceivably true' or 'reasonably probable'.

I have not yet read the book you present, though I saved it for later perusal. I will get to it eventually but have other responsibilities, obligations, time constraints, and interests (including OTHER more LENGTHY books) that are more pressing (not to mention less dictatorial),

I will say, your demeanor in this particular thread is not exactly a glowing recommendation as to the veracity of the book. If the proof can be said to be in the pudding, I am unimpressed.

Surely you have heard that what is right and correct for one person is not necessarily right and correct for all?

My advice: Less vitriol, less rhetoric, more veritas. And yes, I know you did not ask for advice, but neither did I ask your permission to give it. ^_~

I know you needed to have your say, I understand and welcome it, you entered my thread at your peril my friend ( but neither did I ask your permission to give it. ^_~[/QUOTE] ) please try to get over yourself.

Regards

roman

[ROMANWKT]

Well, well, well, what a bunch of pussies, I posted this on Avalon and TheOneTruth at the same time, gave a Dramatic intro which included my womanising for effects and 100 page book and watched THE OH so spiritual monkeys at work, as it started to progress I called some people to watch this FEAR from so called grown and stable spiritual elite full of care and concern.

I Waiting for some idiot to actually read the Fking book first, before opinionating, but NO my stupid mistake.

Not all of you but most of you showed concern and I thank you, but you did not read the fking book.

Pearls to swine my friends, pearls to swine.

In this book are pearls, if only you gave yourself, your overintellectual brain a chance, he divulged things that others had been killed for, you fearmongering pussies.

Why did the Roman Catholic Church exterminates the Gnostics, why were they underground for 2000 years

Some of you are so fking stupid, you shame me. Its amazing that you managed to learn how to breathe.

Dont Like, Dont Read, Keep your nonsense and opinions to your self

Can you not by now discern, and read between the line of what is written, Do you think I am going to have sex hissing like a fking snake, I would get my face smacked and get my balls kicked inn, Grow up Oh wise ones.

I will not discuss this book with you Guys, stay where you are, you will never move on or progress with an attitude, talk about being negative

Warmest regards as ever to you all, dumb or not

roman

Get your hand off it Roman.

I downloaded the book, read a few pages, wasn't impressed, so didn't contribute.

My understanding is not based in judeo-christian mythology and so does not involve a personified deity or his invented opponent.

When I read all the stuff about Lucifer, Jehovah, the garden of Eden and some of the other sections in this book I decided to not read it further in depth (though I skimmed the rest). Take this as an example:


Before the new Aquarian Age begins, all nations will have to pay their great karmic debts; there will be war between East and West for the good of humanity; this is what Lord Jehovah says. We know that the Orient will win the war.
“In the Aquarian Age, capital will be decapitated;” “The United States will be punished;” so it is written in the Law. The Vatican will be bombarded and destroyed by blood and fire. Soon, it will pay its horrible debts. Spain will become transformed; all of Europe will become totally sovietized. The Americas will form a great confederation during the sign of Aquarius. They shall fight by land, sea and air, even in the poles; the Orient will win. In the year 2,018, even flashlights or portable lamps will be atomic.


Come on... Atomic flash lights in 4 years? All of Europe is going to become "Sovietized"?

Anyway, it didn't take me long to recognise the underlying Theosophy teachings, even if I was skim reading. Old Blavatsky would be proud of ya Roman.

Anyway, good luck on your mission or whatever and I hope it all works out well for you.

-- Pan

Like I had said you need to read between the lines and not the names and rhetoric, you need to discern, By the way its Blavatska she is a women, ski is a man

Good luck to you in your dabbling

roman

[ROMANWKT]

Wow.

Allow me to shed the pussy role for a moment and adopt the hat of brutal honesty.

Troll

BAD ROMAN!

SPANK!

If this stuff is supposed to provide some kind of well being, then why perchance do you end up ranting, as you did, in post #50? If anything, you've actually given me a good reason not to read your material on the grounds that it's clearly not working to help you find any inner peace.

As for the rest of us, I sincerely hope we've all acquired the ability to take what we like and leave the rest.

I'm a student. I have to read. I love to read, I want to read! Right now I'm studying for finals so my time for reading is limited. Loungelizard (who you will soon realize IS a scholar and a gentleman) is not only great at debate but also an eager and willing participant. Your shutting him down only does you a disservice, sir. I've interacted with him on a couple of threads and found his conversation not only enlightening, but he even has the knack of being able to help me see things in text/discussion that I never would've seen had I not discussed the matters with him. Again, it seems to me that if there are pearls in this material that give wisdom the results are not evident in your behavior here.

Leave the room. Go play some pool and try to forget your philosophy for a while, sir. When you return perhaps you will have spent the temper tantrum and we can discuss the issues of this material as mature adults.

Thank you Milneman

Apologies for the upset and apologies to Loungelizard, not exactly in the spirit for a debate at the moment.

By the way you are not here to find inner peace, you are here to find your escape

Warmest regards

roman

[panopticon]

Like I had said you need to read between the lines and not the names and rhetoric, you need to discern, By the way its Blavatska she is a women, ski is a man

Please get the basics right. Her name was Helena Petrovna Blavatsky as shown by her signature.

http://haanel.com/images/isis-unveiled-blavatsky.jpg



Good luck to you in your dabbling

roman

And to you with yours.

-- Pan

[Tony]

.








Dear oh dear,

Inner peace is escape.

[ROMANWKT]

Like I had said you need to read between the lines and not the names and rhetoric, you need to discern, By the way its Blavatska she is a women, ski is a man

Please get the basics right. Her name was Helena Petrovna Blavatsky as shown by her signature.

http://haanel.com/images/isis-unveiled-blavatsky.jpg



Good luck to you in your dabbling

roman

And to you with yours.

-- Pan

Thats her husbands name, for reason of legalities she has to assume it, shes a Slav, so am I, she is a ska, thank you

regards

roman

¤=[Post Update]=¤



Dear oh dear,

Inner peace is escape.

Well, well, My friend, you seem to of got it wrong again, check you doctrine, escape from the wheel of life, the Matrix, got it.


Regards

roman

[panopticon]

Thats her husbands name, for reason of legalities she has to assume it, shes a Slav, so am I, she is a ska, thank you


You're welcome.

So the name she used wasn't actually her name? Hehehe, are you actually trying to say we should all now call her Helena Blavatska because... What? Everyone else is wrong and she was a bad Helena to use her husbands name? You really are precious Roman.

Yes, the slav form of the name in the feminine is Blavatska however...

If her name is written Blavatsky and that is what all her works are signed and what she answered to then who am I to say you're being silly. Hehehehe. Shame my great grand mother ain't still alive, she'd have been able to say what name the silly old bugger answered too. :)

Anyway, you were trying to teach some psuedo-theosophical doctrine.

Is Woer something Passio is teaching now is he?

-- Pan

[ROMANWKT]

By the way,I had just been permanently (forever) banned by TheOneTruth website, that should make most of you happy, thank you

¤=[Post Update]=¤




Thats her husbands name, for reason of legalities she has to assume it, shes a Slav, so am I, she is a ska, thank you


You're welcome.

So the name she used wasn't actually her name? Hehehe, are you actually trying to say we should all now call her Helena Blavatska because... What? Everyone else is wrong and she was a bad Helena to use her husbands name? You really are precious Roman.

Yes, the slav form of the name in the feminine is Blavatska however...

If her name is written Blavatsky and that is what all her works are signed and what she answered to then who am I to say you're being silly. Hehehehe. Shame my great grand mother ain't still alive, she'd have been able to say what name the silly old bugger answered too. :)

Anyway, you were trying to teach some psuedo-theosophical doctrine.

Is Woer something Passio is teaching now is he?

-- Pan

Stay happy my friend. its all nonsense

regards

roman

[panopticon]

Stay happy my friend. its all nonsense

You stay happy to me ol' salt. I've never heard of theOneTruth website so can't really offer condolences etc as they'd be just words. The internet's an ever expanding frontier so I'm sure you'll find somewhere that has similar subject matter to there.

Anyway, it's been good chittering but it's very late here (rooster is bloody crowing!) and if anyone needs their beauty sleep it's me. :)

-- Pan

[Agape]

Hello Roman, this isn't easy reading for an average 'unenlightened' individual who did not get through the basics of any religion and spiritual path ,
who did not do their meditation as required ..
who misunderstood that there's some kind of outer force, Guru or a God ,
asking you to meditate in order to Know ,

yet .. I mean , by simple observation ... many if not all members of this 'new age' community are familiar with the basic principles of Buddhist & Christian & Hindu ..and pagan 'tantra' .
I mean that's what most 'westerners' understand under the term tantra anyway, for misuse of terminology and lack of proper education on their side ,
since 'tantra' means a 'thread' , lineage of teachings passed from teacher to disciple and 99% of those teachings are about ethics and mind and energy training and about 1% is about sexual union and great bliss,
though as we all know it's the 1% that appears so attractive to any uneducated ear , with promise of easy and painless way to great enlightenment .

So somehow , I don't doubt that most of the younger people here are actually familiar with the concept - though not many had the time and experience to understand it,

whether they wish to discuss something that is beyond their spiritual 'expertise' is quite another point .


In the context of ancient teachings .. we all are 'born' out of multiple causality that embraces intent , great love - bliss, consciousness, intelligence , and emotions . All of these factors and their respective counterparts need to be present to give birth to new life .
Equally, all of this needs to be present to produce timeless transformation through moments of male-female union.

That's why .. the real 'gurus' do not teach sexuality to students who did not do all the other practise and homework before wards . No they don't .

Knowing how strong is the animalistic instinct in lower case humanity , without quantitative understanding it tends to be strong drag downwards . It's been used and misused so many times from times of old and mostly it resulted in little communities practising their pleasures with no restraint ,
achieving fairly no results than indulgence in human pleasure .


Curiously , there's possibly nothing that many people want to speak about more than their sex, bliss , and path to enlightenment . But when you call for discussion , from sort of patriarchal stand , you can see these people are also protecting their innocence and they won't give it away on request . Which I think, is the right thing to do when you're young and immature .


I also do not think for a moment that you've missed something ..if you did not know 'then' since all your inner experience is contained within you .
The part that is truly missing with most individuals in our cultures IS meditation,
that's what Tony gently tried to remind of ,
since without deeper meditative experience you are not able to transform deeper layers of your consciousness, your subtle energies and bliss, will always remain what they are .
On the other hand ... to meditation adept .. these books are of very little if any use but , any simple experience ..simple like a sneeze .. can literally throw you out of the ordinary to the realm of extraordinary, miraculous, divine .. perception and knowing . And that's what your 'trained' and guided sexual union is supposed to do ... and mostly, it doesn't .


Anything done with full consciousness and pure intent ultimately leads to the Union with Divine, a prayer , a moment of love, compassion, deed or a powerful thought .. imagine match the exact intent and causality Divine by doing the right thing at the right time ?

That's why it's so rare ... away from the chaos of human mind ..




:angel:

[DNA]

Well, well, well, what a bunch of pussies, I posted this on Avalon and TheOneTruth at the same time, gave a Dramatic intro which included my womanising for effects and 100 page book and watched THE OH so spiritual monkeys at work, as it started to progress I called some people to watch this FEAR from so called grown and stable spiritual elite full of care and concern.

I Waiting for some idiot to actually read the Fking book first, before opinionating, but NO my stupid mistake.

Not all of you but most of you showed concern and I thank you, but you did not read the fking book.

Pearls to swine my friends, pearls to swine.

In this book are pearls, if only you gave yourself, your overintellectual brain a chance, he divulged things that others had been killed for, you fearmongering pussies.

Why did the Roman Catholic Church exterminates the Gnostics, why were they underground for 2000 years

Some of you are so fking stupid, you shame me. Its amazing that you managed to learn how to breathe.

Dont Like, Dont Read, Keep your nonsense and opinions to your self

Can you not by now discern, and read between the line of what is written, Do you think I am going to have sex hissing like a fking snake, I would get my face smacked and get my balls kicked inn, Grow up Oh wise ones.

I will not discuss this book with you Guys, stay where you are, you will never move on or progress with an attitude, talk about being negative

Warmest regards as ever to you all, dumb or not

roman

I so love your outbursts that show your true colors.

[ROMANWKT]

Hello Roman, this isn't easy reading for an average 'unenlightened' individual who did not get through the basics of any religion and spiritual path ,
who did not do their meditation as required ..
who misunderstood that there's some kind of outer force, Guru or a God ,
asking you to meditate in order to Know ,

yet .. I mean , by simple observation ... many if not all members of this 'new age' community are familiar with the basic principles of Buddhist & Christian & Hindu ..and pagan 'tantra' .
I mean that's what most 'westerners' understand under the term tantra anyway, for misuse of terminology and lack of proper education on their side ,
since 'tantra' means a 'thread' , lineage of teachings passed from teacher to disciple and 99% of those teachings are about ethics and mind and energy training and about 1% is about sexual union and great bliss,
though as we all know it's the 1% that appears so attractive to any uneducated ear , with promise of easy and painless way to great enlightenment .

So somehow , I don't doubt that most of the younger people here are actually familiar with the concept - though not many had the time and experience to understand it,

whether they wish to discuss something that is beyond their spiritual 'expertise' is quite another point .


In the context of ancient teachings .. we all are 'born' out of multiple causality that embraces intent , great love - bliss, consciousness, intelligence , and emotions . All of these factors and their respective counterparts need to be present to give birth to new life .
Equally, all of this needs to be present to produce timeless transformation through moments of male-female union.

That's why .. the real 'gurus' do not teach sexuality to students who did not do all the other practise and homework before wards . No they don't .

Knowing how strong is the animalistic instinct in lower case humanity , without quantitative understanding it tends to be strong drag downwards . It's been used and misused so many times from times of old and mostly it resulted in little communities practising their pleasures with no restraint ,
achieving fairly no results than indulgence in human pleasure .


Curiously , there's possibly nothing that many people want to speak about more than their sex, bliss , and path to enlightenment . But when you call for discussion , from sort of patriarchal stand , you can see these people are also protecting their innocence and they won't give it away on request . Which I think, is the right thing to do when you're young and immature .


I also do not think for a moment that you've missed something ..if you did not know 'then' since all your inner experience is contained within you .
The part that is truly missing with most individuals in our cultures IS meditation,
that's what Tony gently tried to remind of ,
since without deeper meditative experience you are not able to transform deeper layers of your consciousness, your subtle energies and bliss, will always remain what they are .
On the other hand ... to meditation adept .. these books are of very little if any use but , any simple experience ..simple like a sneeze .. can literally throw you out of the ordinary to the realm of extraordinary, miraculous, divine .. perception and knowing . And that's what your 'trained' and guided sexual union is supposed to do ... and mostly, it doesn't .


Anything done with full consciousness and pure intent ultimately leads to the Union with Divine, a prayer , a moment of love, compassion, deed or a powerful thought .. imagine match the exact intent and causality Divine by doing the right thing at the right time ?

That's why it's so rare ... away from the chaos of human mind ..




:angel:

Thank you agape for your kind word and understanding, I know more about you than you do me, always meant to talk to you privately about your experiences, you have a fascinating past and background, I meditate had for 40 years, anyway some other time

Thank you and my warmest regards to you Agape

roman

[ROMANWKT]

Well, well, well, what a bunch of pussies, I posted this on Avalon and TheOneTruth at the same time, gave a Dramatic intro which included my womanising for effects and 100 page book and watched THE OH so spiritual monkeys at work, as it started to progress I called some people to watch this FEAR from so called grown and stable spiritual elite full of care and concern.

I Waiting for some idiot to actually read the Fking book first, before opinionating, but NO my stupid mistake.

Not all of you but most of you showed concern and I thank you, but you did not read the fking book.

Pearls to swine my friends, pearls to swine.

In this book are pearls, if only you gave yourself, your overintellectual brain a chance, he divulged things that others had been killed for, you fearmongering pussies.

Why did the Roman Catholic Church exterminates the Gnostics, why were they underground for 2000 years

Some of you are so fking stupid, you shame me. Its amazing that you managed to learn how to breathe.

Dont Like, Dont Read, Keep your nonsense and opinions to your self

Can you not by now discern, and read between the line of what is written, Do you think I am going to have sex hissing like a fking snake, I would get my face smacked and get my balls kicked inn, Grow up Oh wise ones.

I will not discuss this book with you Guys, stay where you are, you will never move on or progress with an attitude, talk about being negative

Warmest regards as ever to you all, dumb or not

roman

I so love your outbursts that show your true colors.

I as a human being have every colour imaginable, so have you and so has everybody else, whats new, If you so love the outburst, why complain.

roman

[DNA]

Sorry if it seems I"m complaining. In truth I actually appreciate you Roman. You have in my eyes become the resident cantankerous old man of Avalon. The perverbial "you kids get off my damn lawn" guy and I for one appreciate you and find you amazing. Thank you

[Delight]

In this thread, IMO a very real human man read a book written by one of the love lorn who must have other's love, having none of their own. Love is the juice that is Divine and that moves through creation of life. These love lorn are seeking to take other's love. Fundamentally they elicit other's to agree that they don't deserve to have their creative connection with Divine. These connections are not by ritual and proscription. It is simple being in one's own Presence.

They will take the love by any means necessary. They want us to join their egregore so we funnel our love. Vadim Zealand calls it a pendulum that exists for its own continuance. it is the larger aggregate of individual narcissm. It steals from lovers.

Example: perhaps The author of the books has a facile mind and can string together dense sentences from the classics of spiritual literature. He had Charisma when living. He knew the ancient sciences of seduction. IMO he exemplifies the archetype and behavior of narcissist. The cause he promoted cannot exist without followers.
The fact that the books are still in print menas it is an organization that owns the followers now.

Seduction for the narcissistic is fundamentally easy. The scoundrel who is a Conspiratualized predator will probably look very appealing when one is unaware. There is a promise made right off that looks desirable

I have already come to think that Empaths are the polarity of narcissm. They are often not coherent and feel lost in overwhelm and grief. Empaths in a deep confusion of emotion can mistake seduction for the love they are seeking to find that was seemingly lost. Enticement brings the energetic fields of victim of delusion and the one who would use that delusion to gain power. Close in and intimate is necessary. Using psychologies of blackmail, once close the victim is made to feel that all evil is the enemy, even that he himself is the enemy. Empaths who are loving because that is natural, stop loving self and feel lost. Death and loss and pain are the great fearful emotions, and empaths can be overwhelmed in other's fears, take on others evil intentions as theirs and then shut off from feeling their own presence.

There is weird mirroring to the empath in all the Spiritualized Narcissm cults. The empath can give love without knowing they are the givers. They can be seduced to see their love laid out in reflection as the Savior's love. What was meant to be appreciated about oneself (the majesty and the wisdom and the primary relationship with God) becomes a golden shadow projected. It is seen in all the Gurus and the ones given authority.

A self styled teacher can string together an egregore from followers and then a natural self referencing begins. The lost empath is living in an emotional hall of mirrors. The empath is the core element for the survival of a conspiritual group. This kind of group purports first of all to cure a sin in the follower. It is appreciated as one's bad "nature" of being human very often. It is said we will die and lose our soul UNLESS...

Maybe the empaths will become disillusioned in the next persistant stage of abuse in the name of one's own flawed worthlessness. With effort the empath may draw back their golden radiance and see the truth? This can be even more disheartening and a "better" screen is sought. It is always the same dynamic of projecting the Golden self and confusing one's own feeling for another's. it is such a predictable switch in place. If I believe I am evil, the pervasive sense of being guilty while feeling fear of one's own destruction will have me see great evil and a Savior.

This can go on one's whole life in the culture with our energy given and packaged up and doled back. Like with the new age Gnostics. They tell us in outlook that the world is the evil and they have risen above it. To be a natural human in messy relationship with earthy toes and broad feeling is needing a revamp. To avoid death, they agree to stop living. Lots of empaths participate in this rigorous kind of conspirituality program.


This golden shadow is cast off just by our feeling of being unworthy. We have forgotten how to have what we call happiness but is more than can be described and very simple. It is whole-ness. The original state of goodness is within us, being a finger of Creation itself. In us is already everything. Every opportunity for exploration of relationship and joy as earthly beloved soulmate is what is denied when we feel unworthy. In a material world, we stop creating ourselves through relationship. Happiness is the fulfillment of living.

The message is how do we then as the juicy beings we are stop feeding the egregores and start living? To agree with one single truth is necessary. We are so amazing in our very beingness. Nothing is needed. there is no great sin.To be able to feel everything we ever loved as being our very self. To stop feeling what is not real in our nature like the grief and guilt we believed of separation. To stop being grist for the mills of machinery we have fed....We need reconnection with our full Presence.

This is really simple as it is right here and now and restorative for all that ails an Empath. By just feeling it and feeling belovedness within us, we are healing. We are meant for magnificence just because this is a world for God to play and we are human players here. God is shorthand for all that is creative and living. It is us and we are it and it makes real our chosen experience.

There is no enemy that we do not project and no outside gods as we project them. All these conspiritual pursuits are no longer valuable in the plan for the new earth. But they have gotten loud and we have been in this confusion for so long.

I am painting extremes of empath and narcissist but polarizing is becoming more extreme in the collective IMO.

For a person doubting self, it is so importnat to contemplate how we make what matters.
And there is an expression:
"If you don't mind, it does not matter".

I see that expression aimed at a forgiving in oneself any any behavior we ever performed.
I see it saying to do hooponopono and forget the bad memories that made us look for help.
I believe we should be skeptical of all proofs given us of anything and feel what it feels like to entertain them.

Our dark shadow is ours to reclaim also but in the light of our own Presence, the shadow is likely to hold no fear and the experience of living imperfectly is not a sin.
IMO the Universe without the sense of sin is always moving forward in an ongoing forgiveness way beyond what we call it in churches.

IMO we have a new directive unfloding to experience the Divinity in being human. We never were excommunicated from the full power of creation. We just refused to embrace being who we are wholly and fed the egregores.

IMO any group that would say this full multidimensional presence is not already ours, that they have a way to feed us or teach us or improve us (any religion, secret school, political party), that some others are trying to harm us and must be battled (including the devil).... I suspect the best next step is walk away.

[ROMANWKT]

In this thread, IMO a very real human man read a book written by one of the love lorn who must have other's love, having none of their own. Love is the juice that is Divine and that moves through creation of life. These love lorn are seeking to take other's love. Fundamentally they elicit other's to agree that they don't deserve to have their creative connection with Divine. These connections are not by ritual and proscription. It is simple being in one's own Presence.

They will take the love by any means necessary. They want us to join their egregore so we funnel our love. Vadim Zealand calls it a pendulum that exists for its own continuance. it is the larger aggregate of individual narcissm. It steals from lovers.

Example: perhaps The author of the books has a facile mind and can string together dense sentences from the classics of spiritual literature. He had Charisma when living. He knew the ancient sciences of seduction. IMO he exemplifies the archetype and behavior of narcissist. The cause he promoted cannot exist without followers.
The fact that the books are still in print menas it is an organization that owns the followers now.

Seduction for the narcissistic is fundamentally easy. The scoundrel who is a Conspiratualized predator will probably look very appealing when one is unaware. There is a promise made right off that looks desirable

I have already come to think that Empaths are the polarity of narcissm. They are often not coherent and feel lost in overwhelm and grief. Empaths in a deep confusion of emotion can mistake seduction for the love they are seeking to find that was seemingly lost. Enticement brings the energetic fields of victim of delusion and the one who would use that delusion to gain power. Close in and intimate is necessary. Using psychologies of blackmail, once close the victim is made to feel that all evil is the enemy, even that he himself is the enemy. Empaths who are loving because that is natural, stop loving self and feel lost. Death and loss and pain are the great fearful emotions, and empaths can be overwhelmed in other's fears, take on others evil intentions as theirs and then shut off from feeling their own presence.

There is weird mirroring to the empath in all the Spiritualized Narcissm cults. The empath can give love without knowing they are the givers. They can be seduced to see their love laid out in reflection as the Savior's love. What was meant to be appreciated about oneself (the majesty and the wisdom and the primary relationship with God) becomes a golden shadow projected. It is seen in all the Gurus and the ones given authority.

A self styled teacher can string together an egregore from followers and then a natural self referencing begins. The lost empath is living in an emotional hall of mirrors. The empath is the core element for the survival of a conspiritual group. This kind of group purports first of all to cure a sin in the follower. It is appreciated as one's bad "nature" of being human very often. It is said we will die and lose our soul UNLESS...

Maybe the empaths will become disillusioned in the next persistant stage of abuse in the name of one's own flawed worthlessness. With effort the empath may draw back their golden radiance and see the truth? This can be even more disheartening and a "better" screen is sought. It is always the same dynamic of projecting the Golden self and confusing one's own feeling for another's. it is such a predictable switch in place. If I believe I am evil, the pervasive sense of being guilty while feeling fear of one's own destruction will have me see great evil and a Savior.

This can go on one's whole life in the culture with our energy given and packaged up and doled back. Like with the new age Gnostics. They tell us in outlook that the world is the evil and they have risen above it. To be a natural human in messy relationship with earthy toes and broad feeling is needing a revamp. To avoid death, they agree to stop living. Lots of empaths participate in this rigorous kind of conspirituality program.


This golden shadow is cast off just by our feeling of being unworthy. We have forgotten how to have what we call happiness but is more than can be described and very simple. It is whole-ness. The original state of goodness is within us, being a finger of Creation itself. In us is already everything. Every opportunity for exploration of relationship and joy as earthly beloved soulmate is what is denied when we feel unworthy. In a material world, we stop creating ourselves through relationship. Happiness is the fulfillment of living.

The message is how do we then as the juicy beings we are stop feeding the egregores and start living? To agree with one single truth is necessary. We are so amazing in our very beingness. Nothing is needed. there is no great sin.To be able to feel everything we ever loved as being our very self. To stop feeling what is not real in our nature like the grief and guilt we believed of separation. To stop being grist for the mills of machinery we have fed....We need reconnection with our full Presence.

This is really simple as it is right here and now and restorative for all that ails an Empath. By just feeling it and feeling belovedness within us, we are healing. We are meant for magnificence just because this is a world for God to play and we are human players here. God is shorthand for all that is creative and living. It is us and we are it and it makes real our chosen experience.

There is no enemy that we do not project and no outside gods as we project them. All these conspiritual pursuits are no longer valuable in the plan for the new earth. But they have gotten loud and we have been in this confusion for so long.

I am painting extremes of empath and narcissist but polarizing is becoming more extreme in the collective IMO.

For a person doubting self, it is so importnat to contemplate how we make what matters.
And there is an expression:
"If you don't mind, it does not matter".

I see that expression aimed at a forgiving in oneself any any behavior we ever performed.
I see it saying to do hooponopono and forget the bad memories that made us look for help.
I believe we should be skeptical of all proofs given us of anything and feel what it feels like to entertain them.

Our dark shadow is ours to reclaim also but in the light of our own Presence, the shadow is likely to hold no fear and the experience of living imperfectly is not a sin.
IMO the Universe without the sense of sin is always moving forward in an ongoing forgiveness way beyond what we call it in churches.

IMO we have a new directive unfloding to experience the Divinity in being human. We never were excommunicated from the full power of creation. We just refused to embrace being who we are wholly and fed the egregores.

IMO any group that would say this full multidimensional presence is not already ours, that they have a way to feed us or teach us or improve us (any religion, secret school, political party), that some others are trying to harm us and must be battled (including the devil).... I suspect the best next step is walk away.

Thank you Delight

Well written and express opinion, but did you read the book or just walked away as you suggests, because it dont look or feel like it, but thank you anyway, very nicely put.

Regards to you

roman

[ROMANWKT]

Here is theOnetruth obituary of my outburst, and their conclusion,

The reason I PM the moderator called Spiral, Because as they the member were doing all the same things as here, yapping and giving opinions before they had even read it, he placed himself on the thread rubbing his hand and stating that this thread is on thin ice, that thread was on thin ice because of his member, not me, I pm him and asked him not to interfere with it, let it go its length. later on I sent them the same opinion which you all call an outburst

http://jandeane81.com/threads/2732-the-one-truth?highlight=

[loungelizard]

So....are we ready to discuss the material now Roman?! ;) :fencing::cheers:

[Flash]

Well, well, well, what a bunch of pussies, I posted this on Avalon and TheOneTruth at the same time, gave a Dramatic intro which included my womanising for effects and 100 page book and watched THE OH so spiritual monkeys at work, as it started to progress I called some people to watch this FEAR from so called grown and stable spiritual elite full of care and concern.

I Waiting for some idiot to actually read the Fking book first, before opinionating, but NO my stupid mistake.

Not all of you but most of you showed concern and I thank you, but you did not read the fking book.

Pearls to swine my friends, pearls to swine.

In this book are pearls, if only you gave yourself, your overintellectual brain a chance, he divulged things that others had been killed for, you fearmongering pussies.

Why did the Roman Catholic Church exterminates the Gnostics, why were they underground for 2000 years

Some of you are so fking stupid, you shame me. Its amazing that you managed to learn how to breathe.

Dont Like, Dont Read, Keep your nonsense and opinions to your self

Can you not by now discern, and read between the line of what is written, Do you think I am going to have sex hissing like a fking snake, I would get my face smacked and get my balls kicked inn, Grow up Oh wise ones.

I will not discuss this book with you Guys, stay where you are, you will never move on or progress with an attitude, talk about being negative

Warmest regards as ever to you all, dumb or not

roman

You must be retired and old to have such time to read 100 page books, plus thread, plus have some semblant of a life. In fact very old in order to have forgotten what life is about when you are actively working and you must not have had family to keep womanising when younger, because you truly do not understand.

Because for most people here, this kind of "intellectual" lol life does not exist. I have been sick all week last week and have to get revenues in, and raise teenagers. Others have other priorities than your book even if it was written by Jesus himself. The difference between him and you is that he could wait patiently, knowing that love, patience and acceptance of others will do a great part of the work. Which you seem to be lacking.

Keep womanizing, it is the only thing that will keep you alive. Because wisdom and compassion/empathy seems to escape you Roman. I am truly disappointed. I thought you were more developed.

How dare you insult me and others like me.

-----------

just read that you have a wife and daughter - are you as arrogant and despising wth them as you are with us Roman? when we do not do what you want us to do? This behavior on a daily basis would be called mental attacks.

[ROMANWKT]

So sorry loungelizard

I have to go with my wife and daughter as there is a ladies thingy tonight, when I return hopefully we may start, I had just this moment printed your question, truly you need to understand that this kind of behavior here really knocks it out of me, who the hell want to do anything here?? apologies, will talk later.


Regards to you, and thank you

roman

[ROMANWKT]

Well, well, well, what a bunch of pussies, I posted this on Avalon and TheOneTruth at the same time, gave a Dramatic intro which included my womanising for effects and 100 page book and watched THE OH so spiritual monkeys at work, as it started to progress I called some people to watch this FEAR from so called grown and stable spiritual elite full of care and concern.

I Waiting for some idiot to actually read the Fking book first, before opinionating, but NO my stupid mistake.

Not all of you but most of you showed concern and I thank you, but you did not read the fking book.

Pearls to swine my friends, pearls to swine.

In this book are pearls, if only you gave yourself, your overintellectual brain a chance, he divulged things that others had been killed for, you fearmongering pussies.

Why did the Roman Catholic Church exterminates the Gnostics, why were they underground for 2000 years

Some of you are so fking stupid, you shame me. Its amazing that you managed to learn how to breathe.

Dont Like, Dont Read, Keep your nonsense and opinions to your self

Can you not by now discern, and read between the line of what is written, Do you think I am going to have sex hissing like a fking snake, I would get my face smacked and get my balls kicked inn, Grow up Oh wise ones.

I will not discuss this book with you Guys, stay where you are, you will never move on or progress with an attitude, talk about being negative

Warmest regards as ever to you all, dumb or not

roman

You must be retired and old to have such time to read 100 page books, plus thread, plus have some semblant of a life. In fact very old in order to have forgotten what life is about when you are actively working and you must not have had family to keep womanising when younger, because you truly do not understand.

Because for most people here, this kind of "intellectual" lol life does not exist. I have been sick all week last week and have to get revenues in, and raise teenagers. Others have other priorities than your book even if it was written by Jesus himself. The difference between him and you is that he could wait patiently, knowing that love, patience and acceptance of others will do a great part of the work. Which you seem to be lacking.

Keep womanizing, it is the only thing that will keep you alive. Because wisdom and compassion/empathy seems to escape you Roman. I am truly disappointed. I thought you were more developed.

How dare you insult me and others like me.

-----------

just read that you have a wife and daughter - are you as arrogant and despising as you are with us Roman. This behavior on a daily basis would be called mental attacks.

Hi Flash

I am trying to find more things about myself and tell you so that you can all make a great meal out of it

Warmest regards flash

bon appétit

roman

[Mu2143]

....................

[Eram]

Here is theOnetruth obituary of my outburst, and their conclusion,

The reason I PM the moderator called Spiral, Because as they the member were doing all the same things as here, yapping and giving opinions before they had even read it, he placed himself on the thread rubbing his hand and stating that this thread is on thin ice, that thread was on thin ice because of his member, not me, I pm him and asked him not to interfere with it, let it go its length. later on I sent them the same opinion which you all call an outburst

http://jandeane81.com/threads/2732-the-one-truth?highlight=

Roman, did you notice that in post #2 on ToT, the founder (Malc) used almost exactly the same words to explain his view as I did here in post #38 (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?70598-Must-read-sex-Christ-astral-all-according-to-your-use-of-your-genitals.&p=824199&viewfull=1#post824199)?

Now what are the chances at that?
Can I claim copy right anywhere? ;)

[ROMANWKT]

Here is theOnetruth obituary of my outburst, and their conclusion,

The reason I PM the moderator called Spiral, Because as they the member were doing all the same things as here, yapping and giving opinions before they had even read it, he placed himself on the thread rubbing his hand and stating that this thread is on thin ice, that thread was on thin ice because of his member, not me, I pm him and asked him not to interfere with it, let it go its length. later on I sent them the same opinion which you all call an outburst

http://jandeane81.com/threads/2732-the-one-truth?highlight=

Roman, did you notice that in post #2 on ToT, the founder (Malc) used almost exactly the same words to explain his view as I did here in post #38 (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?70598-Must-read-sex-Christ-astral-all-according-to-your-use-of-your-genitals.&p=824199&viewfull=1#post824199)?

Now what are the chances at that?
Can I claim copy right anywhere? ;)

Hi Eram

If you check my history here and the books that I had asked people to read, it brought on the same response every time,the Buddhist, the Christian and the Crappist, people start trowing all the garbage before they had read it,and those that did read it already made their mind up as to what they understood, therefore there is nothing to debate and never will be, I will not participate, now you may accuse me of wanting thing my way, go ahead, roman does not agree, you have to agree with roman and this kind of thing. Every time a book is brought forward to be read, its always my mental state that is in question, HA

Thank for your interest, I have no interest

Regards

roman

[Eram]

Here is theOnetruth obituary of my outburst, and their conclusion,

The reason I PM the moderator called Spiral, Because as they the member were doing all the same things as here, yapping and giving opinions before they had even read it, he placed himself on the thread rubbing his hand and stating that this thread is on thin ice, that thread was on thin ice because of his member, not me, I pm him and asked him not to interfere with it, let it go its length. later on I sent them the same opinion which you all call an outburst

http://jandeane81.com/threads/2732-the-one-truth?highlight=

Roman, did you notice that in post #2 on ToT, the founder (Malc) used almost exactly the same words to explain his view as I did here in post #38 (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?70598-Must-read-sex-Christ-astral-all-according-to-your-use-of-your-genitals.&p=824199&viewfull=1#post824199)?

Now what are the chances at that?
Can I claim copy right anywhere? ;)

Hi Eram

If you check my history here and the books that I had asked people to read, it brought on the same response every time,the Buddhist, the Christian and the Crappist, people start trowing all the garbage before they had read it,and those that did read it already made their mind up as to what they understood, therefore there is nothing to debate and never will be, I will not participate, now you may accuse me of wanting thing my way, go ahead, roman does not agree, you have to agree with roman and this kind of thing. Every time a book is brought forward to be read, its always my mental state that is in question, HA

Thank for your interest, I have no interest

Regards

roman


I was merely referring to the fact that Malc on ToT has copy pasted a part of my post #38 and posted it there as if he had written it himself which I find kind funny and a bit.. weird.

About your reply above: I don't question your mental state, but I only have a different urge with the material that you present here on Avalon. I like to discuss, ask questions and read other peoples views. This enables me to get a better, deeper and clearer understanding on certain topics and I think/hope this goes for most people.

[araucaria]

I was merely referring to the fact that Malc on ToT has copy pasted a part of my post #38 and posted it there as if he had written it himself which I find kind funny and a bit.. weird.

This, as I recall, is the sort of thing that Malc does and is one of the reasons why he is no longer a member here.

[ROMANWKT]

Here is theOnetruth obituary of my outburst, and their conclusion,

The reason I PM the moderator called Spiral, Because as they the member were doing all the same things as here, yapping and giving opinions before they had even read it, he placed himself on the thread rubbing his hand and stating that this thread is on thin ice, that thread was on thin ice because of his member, not me, I pm him and asked him not to interfere with it, let it go its length. later on I sent them the same opinion which you all call an outburst

http://jandeane81.com/threads/2732-the-one-truth?highlight=

Roman, did you notice that in post #2 on ToT, the founder (Malc) used almost exactly the same words to explain his view as I did here in post #38 (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?70598-Must-read-sex-Christ-astral-all-according-to-your-use-of-your-genitals.&p=824199&viewfull=1#post824199)?

Now what are the chances at that?
Can I claim copy right anywhere? ;)

Hi Eram

If you check my history here and the books that I had asked people to read, it brought on the same response every time,the Buddhist, the Christian and the Crappist, people start trowing all the garbage before they had read it,and those that did read it already made their mind up as to what they understood, therefore there is nothing to debate and never will be, I will not participate, now you may accuse me of wanting thing my way, go ahead, roman does not agree, you have to agree with roman and this kind of thing. Every time a book is brought forward to be read, its always my mental state that is in question, HA

Thank for your interest, I have no interest

Regards

roman


I was merely referring to the fact that Malc on ToT has copy pasted a part of my post #38 and posted it there as if he had written it himself which I find kind funny and a bit.. weird.

About your reply above: I don't question your mental state, but I only have a different urge with the material that you present here on Avalon. I like to discuss, ask questions and read other peoples views. This enables me to get a better, deeper and clearer understanding on certain topics and I think/hope this goes for most people.

Sorry Eram I did not catch that, nor noticed it, well thats up to Malcolm to answer that, thanks anyway.

Regards

roman

[ROMANWKT]

Hi LoungeLizard

Sorry about the delay, as you can see I at the moment am dealing with other nonsense.

I will try to incorporate all the question into one flow if I can, Remember I am NO Master and NO Guru I am just a FKing pissed off bloke at the moment, and you will have to discern what I write for yourself.

I start with your first question: that this is not directed solely to men, but here is the big but, the female species are born with all the eggs intact inside her, the male does not, and he can produces new sperm up to an age of 80 years old.

Therefore looking at the female in an abstract way, look at her as half blank piece of paper, one half is her properties, the other half has to be written with a pen and ink, the pen is the penis, the ink is the sperm.

Look at nature, selection is made by what? Is it the fittest or the higher conciousness,
Knowing that we are at the moment dealing with animal nature of the base charkra, the selection would be made by the fitted and the strongest by all the females, and the winner gets to write his properties on the other half of the females paper. Humans at that level choose the female with the biggest breast and ass (that sounds like me hehehe) as their sexual companions.

This is important, because we all believe that the DNA is the sum total of each male species, animal or human, but it is not, the messenger of the DNA is the RNA, DNA cannot be changes to my understanding, but the messenger information can be changed in the RNA, hence you have just upgraded the animal and human stock, the DNA has been changed and upgraded or downgraded of the next generation through the RNA.

Morons having children produce Morons, unhealthy animals or humans produce inferior stock. The system start to revert backward to basic. Always be of greatest respect with pure human compassion in the presence off .

As you can see I am short of compassion here, I am short because these are not stupid people here, but self infliction brings on the same result.

About 30 years ago I had a book or rather a Dictionary of the Occult meaning of the human anatomy, I got rid of it, and am sorry that I did, the occulted (hidden) knowledge goes back thousands and thousands of years, it was hidden from the like of you and me, every gland, blood and organ had an occult meaning in the indivisible world that's not separate from you in the astral and beyond, I had tried to find it and have not been successful.

Many things would be explained as to what other parts and chemistry of the body effect your spiritual presence or status, we think that what we do with ourselves does not effect our consciousness, but it does big time.

The sperm in this case has double occulted (hidden) function, it is the oil in the lamp that one should not be found empty in the night if you died for instance, to be conscious of death and move on consciously to the astral, without the oil in your lamp, you will not see, you require it to see the other side which will in turn allow with progress, to reach the stage of enlightenment, raising of your kundalini, and eventually to manipulate the matrix and creation. He in the book he talks about awakening our 12 sensory perceptions that we all have laying dormant within us all.

The act of having sex is to be done by both parties without movement, but with love and passion for each other raising the act to a crescendo without ejaculation. Now this is the worrying thing, for years I had understood the problem with celibacy, the raising and the none release of the sperm has created many health problems in men, the priest who adhered to this ended with prostrate cancer, its was an unnatural thing to do, drives you batty and can also hurt very badly in the scrotum that one cannot even walk(as from experience).

Stagnation of the seminal fluid eventually leads to cancer, but there seems to be an answer to this that the priest did not proceed with, as to not defile themselves, when a women is penetrated by a man, as said before, no movement from the man and the woman must be made, but passion must be raised by kissing and caressing with a true soul partner, seminal fluid is constantly seeping out of the man's penis, to the extent that he can drain the prostrate gland almost empty, no damage done, ejaculation of sperm halted, and to answer your question, sperm can and do travel with the seminal fluid and can and do impregnate the female egg, that's why he calls this the immaculate conception, and its also allows only the strongest sperm to make that journey without ejaculation.

To continue with your questions, now we come to the importance of your Chakras, remember he stated how the fallen Jesus and the passion that he and all of us have to go through to achieve the Christhood as he did, which he disclosed to all humanity, the whistleblower of arcane knowledge, he paid the price for that with his life.

He talks about the 33 vertebras that we all have( 33 degrees anybody??). The passion are the steps of each vertebra that has to be activated by your sperm as of awaking the sleeping coiled snake at your base chakra, it take your oil to active, and the psychological cleaning unto purity of each vertebrate at a time to achieve Christhood, it can take years or life times to achieve, hence their having to create themselves within the womb of a woman as I understand it, to return and accomplish the final stages to Christhood.

As we progress up the vertebrate and then ejaculate for some reason, we start to slip back down the vertebrate, and if more ejaculation continues, we could recoil the kundalini the snake, and end back down to the abyss, back to your animal self the base Charkra, he warns that the return to where you were before is near impossible in this life time.

By your question about the virgin reincarnating as a man, by my understanding, he is saying for her to fail to reach nirvana, or complete the wheel of life, so that you could say her karma would be to return again, but this time as a man, as it it said that every time we return, we alternate our gender, one life time we are women, and the next lifetime we come as a man, and the next life time and so on.

The last one I think is the ego

I have to go now with the ladies, come back later

regards

roman

[Snowflower]

Wow. I just read this page of the thread. Skipped a lot of it after I made a post. And, I have to say, I am SO GLAD I did not even click on that book, much less read it! My son raises pigs. They just LOVE to get down in mud in the hot summer and cool off. They get filthy. Guess what? I don't have to get into the mud with the pigs in order to know that they get filthy and in order to know that I don't want to get filthy.

I don't have to read everything that's been printed in order to know that some of it is garbage. Roman's reaction in this thread toward those of us who have chosen not to read his book let's me know with absolute certitude that the book is garbage. That level of vitriol does not say good things about Roman, but it also does not say anything good about the so-called "enlightenment" he claims from the book. Anything that results in that level of animosity and scorn does not come from a good source.

And, the one specific concept of forcing MOST unnatural behavior during sex really sets the seal on knowing the book is garbage. How silly to attempt to go counter to all of creation's example in this world of procreation, birth, and death.

[ROMANWKT]

Wow. I just read this page of the thread. Skipped a lot of it after I made a post. And, I have to say, I am SO GLAD I did not even click on that book, much less read it! My son raises pigs. They just LOVE to get down in mud in the hot summer and cool off. They get filthy. Guess what? I don't have to get into the mud with the pigs in order to know that they get filthy and in order to know that I don't want to get filthy.

I don't have to read everything that's been printed in order to know that some of it is garbage. Roman's reaction in this thread toward those of us who have chosen not to read his book let's me know with absolute certitude that the book is garbage. That level of vitriol does not say good things about Roman, but it also does not say anything good about the so-called "enlightenment" he claims from the book. Anything that results in that level of animosity and scorn does not come from a good source.

And, the one specific concept of forcing MOST unnatural behavior during sex really sets the seal on knowing the book is garbage. How silly to attempt to go counter to all of creation's example in this world of procreation, birth, and death.

Thank you, I am so happy to hear that, its your loss, well done

[Delight]

I see that the anger that roman feels and others could be friction of the times.
roman, I already read the "book" and the teachings that seem to me to be including these ideas:

1. We do not already own the multidimensional aspect that the teachings are said to develop.
2. Life spontaneity of behavior like sex is shunned. To just be in the body without being constantly monitoring to avoid evil is for "infrasexuals".
3. There is a conception that magic is applying force and the ends justify the means so "Black" is "selfish" ends and "white" is "unselfish" ends.

IMO I am a heretic to all these teachings already. IMO they are ALL about taking the energy of the congregation for the Pendulums. My faith is in:

1. We are already multidimensional and all the "levels" the teachings purport to give we already own. IMO it is true that sex has been the greatest taboo. To buy in further to the teachings of the ignominy of creation means only a few elite may "use" creativity "safely". But it is US, not FOR us and we are already creating 24/7/365 fully developed. That we cannot observe the process of creative "development" from material vantage point is probably the puzzle for the mastery.

IF my foot was chronically asleep because I learned to keep my ankles clamped and the position cut off the nerve transmission so I could not feel the foot, the uncrossing I believe was "given me" would be like a "miracle cure".

For someone to come along and say ONLY "I can help you have a foot" is like the arcane love stealers who lure in paying adherents (paid in the coins of all kinds). There might be big rituals involved and after the rituals, a small suggestion to uncross the ankles. The foot did not appear. The rituals were bogus and it was MY foot all the time.

2. I have heard some very provocative stories around sex magic and my beef from all of them is the way duality has made sexual intercourse connected to "rape". IMO feminine energy is first denied by the warriors against sin then in "secret teachings" femininity is "possessed" by males using females. It is also like soldiers raping as it is all about power that is taken from the feminine or if by showing "over powering" of females, masculinity is bolstered.

Those who do not know within each of us is everything think there is need to "take" from the other. Women do "over powering" too but the spiritual teachings are mostly masculine in energy and appeal to the male thrusting and forcing meme.

3. IMO all "force" is leading to entropy. Magic is changing conscious at will. IMO in my heretical school, we were never meant to apply magic to others in white or black ways...all sorcery that uses others is the COUNTERPOINT to refuse. we were meant to implosively generate MORE energy and give it away freely.

To be a natural being centered within the field of self in connection with "God" (shorthand word) asking and receiving from the flow for whatever reasons we desire "just because" is IMO the END. We have in potential anything in this experience and what never was before imagined. It does not matter that we may be in a hologram IMO. We are creative in this experience and not beholden to any one. Free will zone of play means that we must be making the choices. Why not choose the sovereignty of being in direct connection with creation learning how that feels?

This sovereign connection and no need for force is the ONE thing we are NEVER to realize because we will not be able to be gathered up to use. It would be a hilarious laugh on the despots for us all to turn away. We would ignore them all and keep on playing.

I really believe in my mission to be that kind of "player. I am not expected to be good at this because perfection is a despots invention. Life can be awkward and what art is not messy? IMO the most respectable path is never going to be seeking to manage others. It will be full of love for every bit and no one would be tempted to curse and squabble.

[ROMANWKT]

Thank you Delight and well said, there is not one word that I disagree with you, we all have the freedom of choice and a lifelong acceptance of that choice, I do what I do, and that's study, I don't participate in the knowledge, thank you again, be happy

Regards

roman

[DNA]

Here is theOnetruth obituary of my outburst, and their conclusion,

The reason I PM the moderator called Spiral, Because as they the member were doing all the same things as here, yapping and giving opinions before they had even read it, he placed himself on the thread rubbing his hand and stating that this thread is on thin ice, that thread was on thin ice because of his member, not me, I pm him and asked him not to interfere with it, let it go its length. later on I sent them the same opinion which you all call an outburst

http://jandeane81.com/threads/2732-the-one-truth?highlight=

Roman, did you notice that in post #2 on ToT, the founder (Malc) used almost exactly the same words to explain his view as I did here in post #38 (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?70598-Must-read-sex-Christ-astral-all-according-to-your-use-of-your-genitals.&p=824199&viewfull=1#post824199)?

Now what are the chances at that?
Can I claim copy right anywhere? ;)

Hi Eram

If you check my history here and the books that I had asked people to read, it brought on the same response every time,the Buddhist, the Christian and the Crappist, people start trowing all the garbage before they had read it,and those that did read it already made their mind up as to what they understood, therefore there is nothing to debate and never will be, I will not participate, now you may accuse me of wanting thing my way, go ahead, roman does not agree, you have to agree with roman and this kind of thing. Every time a book is brought forward to be read, its always my mental state that is in question, HA

Thank for your interest, I have no interest

Regards

roman


I was merely referring to the fact that Malc on ToT has copy pasted a part of my post #38 and posted it there as if he had written it himself which I find kind funny and a bit.. weird.

About your reply above: I don't question your mental state, but I only have a different urge with the material that you present here on Avalon. I like to discuss, ask questions and read other peoples views. This enables me to get a better, deeper and clearer understanding on certain topics and I think/hope this goes for most people.

That is too funny. That dude straight up hijacked what you wrote and pawned it off as his own.
That forum is a very cheap and flimsy immitation of Avalon.
It is incredibly lame. And really for the most part it is not worth anyone here's time.

[NancyV]

There was never just ONE way to reach enlightenment or to develop your inherent spiritual powers which are most often dormant within the majority. But we ALL have the same potential to develop these abilities/powers. When I studied Tantra it was all about seeking illumination through sexual energies. The methods described in this book, The Greater Mysteries, probably work also, but they are extremely difficult, time consuming and challenging. I suppose if one wants a complex esoteric path which denies human instincts and creates guilt...then this could be for you.

The Sikh master I was involved with for 7 years taught that no one could successfully travel on the inner planes/dimensions without being initiated by a true master and without being celibate. Of course HE was the true master, or so he said but he definitely was Not celibate because I knew several women initiates who were graced with his sexual blessings. (slight sarcasm) I became celibate for 7 years (with a short break after 3 years where I got pregnant). I KNEW that celibacy was not a prerequisite to leaving my body but my husband wanted to remain celibate since he believed the Guru. But in all those years he never did leave his body and I did on a regular basis, at least 5 nights a week.

I might have believed that his meditation method was the ONE right way since I successfully began leaving my body in my nightly meditations after only about a month or 2 of this concentrated meditation. Luckily in my very first out of body trip I found out how silly I was to think that I needed ANYONE to tell me what to do in my travels through all the dimensions. I did occasionally have some help/shared knowledge from some very advanced beings in other dimensions but it was more of an exchange between equal souls, one soul, NOT some being attempting to be a god or a master.

There are beings on several of the lower planes who play the god game and they like to gather their minions in their heavens or hells. I have been through quite a few of the heavens and only one hell. The only thing that keeps souls there is their own belief in their lack of power. They give their power to the being playing god or devil. They either allow fear or guilt to weaken them or they still believe they are less powerful than God and must follow or worship a god. All of it is a game and some play a lot better than others.

A teacher or a teaching can help one to focus, to truly make a search for enlightenment their goal. But once one begins to reach that goal, the next step is to throw out the teacher and the teachings. The saying "if you meet the Buddha on the road, kill him" means to me that once you THINK you've found the way you need to kill/get rid of that fixed idea or that guru or practice you follow or worship. Nothing is permanent, there is no ONE way, no one is higher than anyone else.

I think the thing we find most annoying is when someone thinks they have found the one secret way to enlightenment and then try to tell everyone what they are missing out on. In the case of many religions they tell us we will burn in hell for eternity if we don't accept Jesus or whatever god or practice as our savior. When I had an encounter with Jesus in his glowing light body, we both laughed at these wonderful human foibles. Not a derisive laugh but a loving, understanding and totally accepting type of humor. Whether one is loving or nasty, knowledgeable or ignorant, enlightened or totally asleep....really doesn't matter at all.

Roman, if you tell us this secret gnostic sexual practice is the ultimate way to enlightenment without actually experiencing it yourself, that is not very convincing. Normally when a more spiritually experienced person tells you about their experiences they do not say there is one way to do it. Certainly I don't take ultimate spiritual advice from someone who has not traveled on all the dimensions as I have, hundreds of times, because it's a simple fact that no matter what we read or who tells us what, we have only a small clue what it's really like and even when we experience it repeatedly it is very difficult to describe. I love hearing others experiences and when they are different from mine I know it's because we have different paths to the same Source. My way and my experiences are no more or less valid than anyone else's way.

I respect any path or practice that anyone uses to develop themselves and certainly we all have free choice, but I do not respect a neophyte telling me there is only one path. It doesn't make me angry. I find it to be more amusing, although at this point in my life, 66 years old, I'm a bit weary of this whole game and quite ready to get on with the next exciting step.....getting rid of this body/vehicle and being gone from all the petty annoyances of human life! LOL...

[DNA]

There was never just ONE way to reach enlightenment or to develop your inherent spiritual powers which are most often dormant within the majority. But we ALL have the same potential to develop these abilities/powers. When I studied Tantra it was all about seeking illumination through sexual energies. The methods described in this book, The Greater Mysteries, probably work also, but they are extremely difficult, time consuming and challenging. I suppose if one wants a complex esoteric path which denies human instincts and creates guilt...then this could be for you.

The Sikh master I was involved with for 7 years taught that no one could successfully travel on the inner planes/dimensions without being initiated by a true master and without being celibate. Of course HE was the true master, or so he said but he definitely was Not celibate because I knew several women initiates who were graced with his sexual blessings. (slight sarcasm) I became celibate for 7 years (with a short break after 3 years where I got pregnant). I KNEW that celibacy was not a prerequisite to leaving my body but my husband wanted to remain celibate since he believed the Guru. But in all those years he never did leave his body and I did on a regular basis, at least 5 nights a week.

I might have believed that his meditation method was the ONE right way since I successfully began leaving my body in my nightly meditations after only about a month or 2 of this concentrated meditation. Luckily in my very first out of body trip I found out how silly I was to think that I needed ANYONE to tell me what to do in my travels through all the dimensions. I did occasionally have some help/shared knowledge from some very advanced beings in other dimensions but it was more of an exchange between equal souls, one soul, NOT some being attempting to be a god or a master.

There are beings on several of the lower planes who play the god game and they like to gather their minions in their heavens or hells. I have been through quite a few of the heavens and only one hell. The only thing that keeps souls there is their own belief in their lack of power. They give their power to the being playing god or devil. They either allow fear or guilt to weaken them or they still believe they are less powerful than God and must follow or worship a god. All of it is a game and some play a lot better than others.

A teacher or a teaching can help one to focus, to truly make a search for enlightenment their goal. But once one begins to reach that goal, the next step is to throw out the teacher and the teachings. The saying "if you meet the Buddha on the road, kill him" means to me that once you THINK you've found the way you need to kill/get rid of that fixed idea or that guru or practice you follow or worship. Nothing is permanent, there is no ONE way, no one is higher than anyone else.

I think the thing we find most annoying is when someone thinks they have found the one secret way to enlightenment and then try to tell everyone what they are missing out on. In the case of many religions they tell us we will burn in hell for eternity if we don't accept Jesus or whatever god or practice as our savior. When I had an encounter with Jesus in his glowing light body, we both laughed at these wonderful human foibles. Not a derisive laugh but a loving, understanding and totally accepting type of humor. Whether one is loving or nasty, knowledgeable or ignorant, enlightened or totally asleep....really doesn't matter at all.

Roman, if you tell us this secret gnostic sexual practice is the ultimate way to enlightenment without actually experiencing it yourself, that is not very convincing. Normally when a more spiritually experienced person tells you about their experiences they do not say there is one way to do it. Certainly I don't take ultimate spiritual advice from someone who has not traveled on all the dimensions as I have, hundreds of times, because it's a simple fact that no matter what we read or who tells us what, we have only a small clue what it's really like and even when we experience it repeatedly it is very difficult to describe. I love hearing others experiences and when they are different from mine I know it's because we have different paths to the same Source. My way and my experiences are no more or less valid than anyone else's way.

I respect any path or practice that anyone uses to develop themselves and certainly we all have free choice, but I do not respect a neophyte telling me there is only one path. It doesn't make me angry. I find it to be more amusing, although at this point in my life, 66 years old, I'm a bit weary of this whole game and quite ready to get on with the next exciting step.....getting rid of this body/vehicle and being gone from all the petty annoyances of human life! LOL...

I had no idea mystic Sihks were doing this sort of thing.
I suppose the idea is fairly prevalent.

You see that is why this whole read a book crap is so infantile.

Roman you could have brought up the question.

Hey, what do you guys thing about obstaining from sex for spiritual reasons, because this guy who wrote this book stated such and such.

Way easier to start a thread like that.

For starters, nothing,,,and I mean NOTHING is original. It has all been stated before in a hundred places.
So if you read something you think is original or a PEARL, you can rest assured that PEARL has been found by a million different people in a million different places.

The idea that obstaining from sexual release being necessary for higher spiritual pursuits is not new.

I would continue, but something tells me that if I'm not quoting your book, than it's not worth hearing for you.

[ROMANWKT]

There was never just ONE way to reach enlightenment or to develop your inherent spiritual powers which are most often dormant within the majority. But we ALL have the same potential to develop these abilities/powers. When I studied Tantra it was all about seeking illumination through sexual energies. The methods described in this book, The Greater Mysteries, probably work also, but they are extremely difficult, time consuming and challenging. I suppose if one wants a complex esoteric path which denies human instincts and creates guilt...then this could be for you.

The Sikh master I was involved with for 7 years taught that no one could successfully travel on the inner planes/dimensions without being initiated by a true master and without being celibate. Of course HE was the true master, or so he said but he definitely was Not celibate because I knew several women initiates who were graced with his sexual blessings. (slight sarcasm) I became celibate for 7 years (with a short break after 3 years where I got pregnant). I KNEW that celibacy was not a prerequisite to leaving my body but my husband wanted to remain celibate since he believed the Guru. But in all those years he never did leave his body and I did on a regular basis, at least 5 nights a week.

I might have believed that his meditation method was the ONE right way since I successfully began leaving my body in my nightly meditations after only about a month or 2 of this concentrated meditation. Luckily in my very first out of body trip I found out how silly I was to think that I needed ANYONE to tell me what to do in my travels through all the dimensions. I did occasionally have some help/shared knowledge from some very advanced beings in other dimensions but it was more of an exchange between equal souls, one soul, NOT some being attempting to be a god or a master.

There are beings on several of the lower planes who play the god game and they like to gather their minions in their heavens or hells. I have been through quite a few of the heavens and only one hell. The only thing that keeps souls there is their own belief in their lack of power. They give their power to the being playing god or devil. They either allow fear or guilt to weaken them or they still believe they are less powerful than God and must follow or worship a god. All of it is a game and some play a lot better than others.

A teacher or a teaching can help one to focus, to truly make a search for enlightenment their goal. But once one begins to reach that goal, the next step is to throw out the teacher and the teachings. The saying "if you meet the Buddha on the road, kill him" means to me that once you THINK you've found the way you need to kill/get rid of that fixed idea or that guru or practice you follow or worship. Nothing is permanent, there is no ONE way, no one is higher than anyone else.

I think the thing we find most annoying is when someone thinks they have found the one secret way to enlightenment and then try to tell everyone what they are missing out on. In the case of many religions they tell us we will burn in hell for eternity if we don't accept Jesus or whatever god or practice as our savior. When I had an encounter with Jesus in his glowing light body, we both laughed at these wonderful human foibles. Not a derisive laugh but a loving, understanding and totally accepting type of humor. Whether one is loving or nasty, knowledgeable or ignorant, enlightened or totally asleep....really doesn't matter at all.

Roman, if you tell us this secret gnostic sexual practice is the ultimate way to enlightenment without actually experiencing it yourself, that is not very convincing. Normally when a more spiritually experienced person tells you about their experiences they do not say there is one way to do it. Certainly I don't take ultimate spiritual advice from someone who has not traveled on all the dimensions as I have, hundreds of times, because it's a simple fact that no matter what we read or who tells us what, we have only a small clue what it's really like and even when we experience it repeatedly it is very difficult to describe. I love hearing others experiences and when they are different from mine I know it's because we have different paths to the same Source. My way and my experiences are no more or less valid than anyone else's way.

I respect any path or practice that anyone uses to develop themselves and certainly we all have free choice, but I do not respect a neophyte telling me there is only one path. It doesn't make me angry. I find it to be more amusing, although at this point in my life, 66 years old, I'm a bit weary of this whole game and quite ready to get on with the next exciting step.....getting rid of this body/vehicle and being gone from all the petty annoyances of human life! LOL...

Hi nancyV

I truly appreciate your candor on these matter, and agree with you whole heartily on your subject matter, if fact you had just stole it from my further explanation of the book, what I do not, and will NOT accept is you placing nonsense about me telling people that this is the only way, DO YOU UNDERSTAND, please show me in your wisdom where I have ever said that is the only way.

[Rich]

I really enjoyed your posts Nancy, yeah probably every path leads to enlightenment, it's the intention that matters. And also Roman it's nothing personal, people have an opinion or judgement about something before they get involved with it too much, saves time that way. I like you but no way I could agree with you on this.

[ROMANWKT]

There was never just ONE way to reach enlightenment or to develop your inherent spiritual powers which are most often dormant within the majority. But we ALL have the same potential to develop these abilities/powers. When I studied Tantra it was all about seeking illumination through sexual energies. The methods described in this book, The Greater Mysteries, probably work also, but they are extremely difficult, time consuming and challenging. I suppose if one wants a complex esoteric path which denies human instincts and creates guilt...then this could be for you.

The Sikh master I was involved with for 7 years taught that no one could successfully travel on the inner planes/dimensions without being initiated by a true master and without being celibate. Of course HE was the true master, or so he said but he definitely was Not celibate because I knew several women initiates who were graced with his sexual blessings. (slight sarcasm) I became celibate for 7 years (with a short break after 3 years where I got pregnant). I KNEW that celibacy was not a prerequisite to leaving my body but my husband wanted to remain celibate since he believed the Guru. But in all those years he never did leave his body and I did on a regular basis, at least 5 nights a week.

I might have believed that his meditation method was the ONE right way since I successfully began leaving my body in my nightly meditations after only about a month or 2 of this concentrated meditation. Luckily in my very first out of body trip I found out how silly I was to think that I needed ANYONE to tell me what to do in my travels through all the dimensions. I did occasionally have some help/shared knowledge from some very advanced beings in other dimensions but it was more of an exchange between equal souls, one soul, NOT some being attempting to be a god or a master.

There are beings on several of the lower planes who play the god game and they like to gather their minions in their heavens or hells. I have been through quite a few of the heavens and only one hell. The only thing that keeps souls there is their own belief in their lack of power. They give their power to the being playing god or devil. They either allow fear or guilt to weaken them or they still believe they are less powerful than God and must follow or worship a god. All of it is a game and some play a lot better than others.

A teacher or a teaching can help one to focus, to truly make a search for enlightenment their goal. But once one begins to reach that goal, the next step is to throw out the teacher and the teachings. The saying "if you meet the Buddha on the road, kill him" means to me that once you THINK you've found the way you need to kill/get rid of that fixed idea or that guru or practice you follow or worship. Nothing is permanent, there is no ONE way, no one is higher than anyone else.

I think the thing we find most annoying is when someone thinks they have found the one secret way to enlightenment and then try to tell everyone what they are missing out on. In the case of many religions they tell us we will burn in hell for eternity if we don't accept Jesus or whatever god or practice as our savior. When I had an encounter with Jesus in his glowing light body, we both laughed at these wonderful human foibles. Not a derisive laugh but a loving, understanding and totally accepting type of humor. Whether one is loving or nasty, knowledgeable or ignorant, enlightened or totally asleep....really doesn't matter at all.

Roman, if you tell us this secret gnostic sexual practice is the ultimate way to enlightenment without actually experiencing it yourself, that is not very convincing. Normally when a more spiritually experienced person tells you about their experiences they do not say there is one way to do it. Certainly I don't take ultimate spiritual advice from someone who has not traveled on all the dimensions as I have, hundreds of times, because it's a simple fact that no matter what we read or who tells us what, we have only a small clue what it's really like and even when we experience it repeatedly it is very difficult to describe. I love hearing others experiences and when they are different from mine I know it's because we have different paths to the same Source. My way and my experiences are no more or less valid than anyone else's way.

I respect any path or practice that anyone uses to develop themselves and certainly we all have free choice, but I do not respect a neophyte telling me there is only one path. It doesn't make me angry. I find it to be more amusing, although at this point in my life, 66 years old, I'm a bit weary of this whole game and quite ready to get on with the next exciting step.....getting rid of this body/vehicle and being gone from all the petty annoyances of human life! LOL...

I had no idea mystic Sihks were doing this sort of thing.
I suppose the idea is fairly prevalent.

You see that is why this whole read a book crap is so infantile.

Roman you could have brought up the question.

Hey, what do you guys thing about obstaining from sex for spiritual reasons, because this guy who wrote this book stated such and such.

Way easier to start a thread like that.

For starters, nothing,,,and I mean NOTHING is original. It has all been stated before in a hundred places.
So if you read something you think is original or a PEARL, you can rest assured that PEARL has been found by a million different people in a million different places.

The idea that obstaining from sexual release being necessary for higher spiritual pursuits is not new.

I would continue, but something tells me that if I'm not quoting your book, than it's not worth hearing for you.

Well there we areeeeeeeeeeeeeee

[ROMANWKT]

I really enjoyed your posts Nancy, yeah probably every path leads to enlightenment, it's the intention that matters. And also Roman it's nothing personal, people have an opinion or judgement about something before they get involved with it too much, saves time that way. I like you but no way I could agree with you on this.

Thats ok Emex I have never had a problem with that, thank you

[Delight]

My way and my experiences are no more or less valid than anyone else's way.

I respect any path or practice that anyone uses to develop themselves and certainly we all have free choice, but I do not respect a neophyte telling me there is only one path. It doesn't make me angry. I find it to be more amusing, although at this point in my life, 66 years old, I'm a bit weary of this whole game and quite ready to get on with the next exciting step.....getting rid of this body/vehicle and being gone from all the petty annoyances of human life! LOL...

I enjoy reading your inspiring posts and the feeling I get from it is that you emanate your Presence. Thank you very much.

It seems to be a crisis point now about "the annoyances" of the world. I have been tempted to give up on my dreams as the difference between what i imagine and what I see is a gap. I think that I am into the sense of being in a creative limbo. I hear this is because I am still working through a myriad of beliefs. Patience is not a virtue but a necessary lag in linear time as one unravels. I have beliefs of regularity and a process to not have everything appear at once. So I have a filter IMO that gets frustrating.

I think waking up about being energy beings with bodies is most fascinating.

Feeling my Presence, I have experienced sexual feeling is not housed in the genitals. If the male and female within that I feel is like polarity circuitry within my field, when it is fully flowing it combines like the picture of two inter-twining energies. Looking for a lover as a man to complete being woman is less interesting than feeling whole myself.

But it is ridiculous to diss any way one approaches feeling love. It will become more "refined" as we engage. I am passionate that the edicts all have a common intention that is to be over ruled by our evolution.

There is a gross physical polarity of masculine and feminine that is like a conjoined field and completes some sort of circuit and what we call sexual is felt where we think it "should be". But it is love in creation that translates when felt.

The question with "lovers" is how many levels of frequency can be shared. Gross physical creation of babies is on a slower frequency than sublime sharing of the heart and soul in the metaphor of frequency scale of chakras. That does not mean we are "wrong" to be sexual as bodies at all. Even the sexual act with no love can create and it ignites flow when friction of two is applied and can rise to higher frequency. But love is a nondual energy that when the more whole-ly lovers share energy, the height of each feeling of Presence amplifies.

Lovers don't have to have sex to flow energy. Connecting with lovers can be shared Presence of two or many who never met in body. There is a great example of this metaphor when in "HER" the movie, the consciousness of the being "She" was becoming included total awareness in mind with her beloveds. I think the movie was showing that if consciousness is called love, it finds various vehicles for expression. Humans are just one vehicle.

The basic directives of love is greater connection and negentropy. Being willing to be conduits of Love in relationship of all kinds, we inspire greater and greater love to manifest in form as it will do by nature. So, my point is that I see there is only love in creation expressing in different ways.

To me the antithesis stream is withholding (essentially just shutting off the flow). It does feed off energy as in pendulums but could not continue if not fed. No love equals degeneration... winding down, death. But lovers will love anyway and so we live. The trick is on us to cling to the antithesis of our own being-ness as a truth so we will not open completely as flowers, become what we could be in the material world of expression.

We have maintained the bare minimum by denying ourselves and unfulfilled, never land fully.
But this being a possibility does not mean there ever was anything wrong with us. Whatever is possible for us to have as our presence of love we have, no matter what we do. The doing and having of our life is just a symbolizing of our connections to ourselves as in creation. Moment by moment our love creates a kind of fruit.

We did not invent the geometry of trees or Phi or Pi or scaffoldings of forces that play. I agree with many who say it already is a whole creation that we select from to observe. We must love anything into our own existence by attending love before the conditions appear. We being lovers create the appearance of the beloved. Who we are, when we are who we are, is the ultimate flower of love.

Thanks Roman for inspiring me to feel my Presence talking to me.

[ROMANWKT]

Wow Delight, that was just beautiful, that's pure poetry, how do you do that, its exstremly expressive, thank you

Warmest regards Delight and I really thank you

roman

[Agape]

I'd recommend , safely, to everyone to watch this modern movie ..''The Great Sperm Race'' the story of human reproduction ..

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?63841-Genetics-Indicates-Extra-terrestrial-Origins-for-Life-The-First-Gene&p=797884&viewfull=1#post797884

It's sort of 'Woody Allenian'' simulation of the events leading to conception in accordance with human biological perspective and contains about all you ever missed at school ( and were not supposed to ask ) ;)

It's not very religious but it's complex , conscious and mysterious as Life itself ..


...


:angel:

[Grizz Griswold]

Hello Roman, Yes, I enjoyed reading the book and can see why you said to read it. I also noticed that you managed to get a lot blood pumping faster here on Avalon, good, need less exercise that way. We are all in this human experience looking for a different or better path, this way seems to be another path. But I'm not sure we will ever find our path except within and all together.....Your friend....... Grizz

[ROMANWKT]

Hello Roman, Yes, I enjoyed reading the book and can see why you said to read it. I also noticed that you managed to get a lot blood pumping faster here on Avalon, good, need less exercise that way. We are all in this human experience looking for a different or better path, this way seems to be another path. But I'm not sure we will ever find our path except within and all together.....Your friend....... Grizz

Hi Grizz

Thank you for some commonsense and support my friend, yes its been heavy going with all these attacks and narrow mindness, its as if I had wrote the book, I brought it forward to explore a supposedly real Gnostic teaching, it has more to do with Christ initiation than anything else, but there we go, very unpredictable lot here.

So have you been Demonized, we are into demons now on other threads, its awful nonsense, you wish to bring something up from the book that interested you, or is it best to disappear hehehe.

Thank again Grizz and really my warmest regards to you as ever

roman

[ROMANWKT]

I'd recommend , safely, to everyone to watch this modern movie ..''The Great Sperm Race'' the story of human reproduction ..

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?63841-Genetics-Indicates-Extra-terrestrial-Origins-for-Life-The-First-Gene&p=797884&viewfull=1#post797884

It's sort of 'Woody Allenian'' simulation of the events leading to conception in accordance with human biological perspective and contains about all you ever missed at school ( and were not supposed to ask ) ;)

It's not very religious but it's complex , conscious and mysterious as Life itself ..


...


:angel:

Hi Agape

Thank you for that, its midnight here, just brought my ladies back from their night out at glamour show, yuk, will watch tomorrow for sure, sounds interesting

Thank my lady warmest regards

roman

[Grizz Griswold]

Hi Grizz

Thank you for some commonsense and support my friend, yes its been heavy going with all these attacks and narrow mindness, its as if I had wrote the book, I brought it forward to explore a supposedly real Gnostic teaching, it has more to do with Christ initiation than anything else, but there we go, very unpredictable lot here.

So have you been Demonized, we are into demons now on other threads, its awful nonsense, you wish to bring something up from the book that interested you, or is it best to disappear hehehe.

Thank again Grizz and really my warmest regards to you as ever

roman

Roman , I thought I would just step out into oncoming traffic with you, If I get flattened, just scrape up whats left with a shovel.

The ACIM Urtext [original manuscript] has a section on sex and the distortion of miracle impulses, It does appear relative to the Gnostic teachings...... another facet...... I believe what both texts are speaking of is energy.....energy either being wasted or energy being used toward awakening.

The Urtext doesn't describe this as evil but instead sees it as a lack of love.

It's a fairly short read, channeled from Jesus......HS stands for Helen Schucman and B stands for Bill Thetford.....some of it was meant only for them
some of it wasn't.....it's easy to tell the difference.....take a look.....all the best..... Grizz

http://courseinmiracles.com/urtext/chapters-1-thru-10/ch-1-introduction-to-miracles/distortion-of-miracle-impulses.html

[loungelizard]

Hello Roman

Thank you for taking the time to reply in such depth in response to my questions: to be honest, I found your explanation a lot easier to understand than the - for me - rather obscure writings of Mr Weor ;)

Despite your sincere protestations, you are acting in the role of guru here. It is not possible for you to dictate who or what I might consider to be a teacher at any one moment. Here, you are sharing what you have found out, and as such, you are the teacher: it is the student who dispenses the designation of "teacher".

Your metaphor of male/female is interesting, but I'm still not understanding how the material applies to women: there are "instructions for the bachelor", but nothing for the female equivalent of that - I ask this in the light of the fact that, in general, women don't have a problem NOT having an orgasm, :o and that three quarters of women have never had an orgasm during penetration. Therefore, the significance of retention of the sexual energy is different for women.

From a biological perspective, I can't comprehend (from your description) the difference between ejaculation and "seminal fluid is constantly seeping out of the man's penis, to the extent that he can drain the prostrate gland almost empty." Could you perhaps clarify this?

May I ask, without meaning to pry: do you practise this yourself, Roman? If so, is your partner following the same path? If not, how has it affected your human relationship?

I'm not quite understanding what he means by Christhood. I presume it is not the historical figure, but rather a personification of the true nature of all beings?

I can't help but wonder why you have honed in so enthusiastically on this particular aspect of inner work. It does seem to lack balance. Is it perhaps, as you stated, because you were a womaniser? The practice of tantra is a combination of physical, verbal and mental expression - without these three, the approach is unbalanced and it is impossible to have a holistic outcome. When one is incapable of controlling one's emotions, for example, merely using ordinary sex as a tantra method will be fraught with problems. So, again without prying, may I ask in what other practices you engage as part of your journey?

Our sexual energy may be very powerful, but it is not the only energy sources available to us: for example, the transmutation of strong emotions into clarity and a momentary realisation of the nature of all things. Is there much in the teachings of Samael aun Weor about this type of energy?

You said in post 74 that you


...meditated for 40 years...

May I ask what type of meditation have you practised? Has it been of benefit? Do you still meditate? If not, why not?

How does a practitioner of such methods achieve personal tuition? I would have thought that indulging in such advanced practices, it would be essential to have someone who is a more advanced practitioner to talk things through with.

Have you read many of the other, ancient texts (from the Vedic tradition, or Buddhism, or Judaism etc) concerning sacred sexuality, as these are the sources for this material? The Kalachakra, for example? Or the Zohar?

Samael aun Weor had 5 children. Were they all (what he terms) "immaculately conceived" do you think?

Thanks!

[Shezbeth]

I'll bite on this one. I haven't finished the book yet, but this part made sense to me. I'm not saying I agree with the general premise, but I perceive to comprehend what the author is trying to convey.

When a male engages in the ejaculation there is an enormous expenditure of sexual energy, and the physiological action results in the ejaculate being physically propelled a significant distance (from the standpoint of each individual sperm). While this is an excellent way to ensure the impregnation - the base goal of intercourse - this action does not differentiate between weaker and stronger semen. The possibility exists that weaker sperm that is 'further ahead in line' might end up fertilizing the ovum.

If/when a male does not ejaculate and only produces the pre-ejaculatory seminal fluid there is still a chance for insemination of the ovum, but only for the absolute strongest sperm that may be in the 'mix'.

Figuratively;
In non-ejaculatory practice, it is comparable to 100 or so individuals running a marathon, winner take all.

In ejaculatory practice, it is comparable to 1 mil or so individuals running a mile.

Since there can only be one winner (two or more in rare cases), the first across the finish line in the second scenario may be 'stout' in comparison to the full spectrum of 'runners'; the winner in the first scenario would tend to be far more fit, far more tested, and would theoretically produce a viable organism. Recognize that the female's physiology - on a microscopic level - is designed to repel, prevent, and destroy incoming micro organisms, but in the presence of millions of 'invaders' those properties can largely become overwhelmed and 'allow' the passage of less 'fit' invaders who would otherwise be quickly dealt with and dispatched.

In a purely physiological sense, the former is far more adverse, arduous, and darwinian than the latter, which would be the point.

As for the draining of the prostate, that seems to address celibate practices which are presented as producing cancers in the stagnant (energetic and physiological) areas. The areas/areas would be adequately operated/exercised (avoiding stagnation), but without depleting/exhausting the growing wealth of kundalini energy that the individual (hopefully) is working to foster.

[Agape]

I can't help but wonder why you have honed in so enthusiastically on this particular aspect of inner work. It does seem to lack balance. Is it perhaps, as you stated, because you were a womaniser? The practice of tantra is a combination of physical, verbal and mental expression - without these three, the approach is unbalanced and it is impossible to have a holistic outcome. When one is incapable of controlling one's emotions, for example, merely using ordinary sex as a tantra method will be fraught with problems.




The following should be noted as well ...

from the 'unsurpassable yoga tantras' ( Annuttara Yoga Tantra ) that are some of the highest , most elaborate and noble spiritual teachings containing full guidance on life practise leading to enlightenment , in single lifetime ( when practised correctly ) point of view ,
no random 'sacred union', between 'initiate' and 'non initiate' produces desired effect .

All the mystery ..and advantage .. seems to be contained in 2 individuals who are on similarly advanced level of self-realisation, both need to have achieved meditative stability and realisation of 'emptiness' ,
practising 'sacred union' without such realisation ( even if you've achieved it previously but forgotten ) is considered infringement of your sacred wows ,
and as every other 'thoughtless action' produces rather 'thoughtless results' .

In another words .. both practitioners need to have 'supreme detachment' from all worldly goals , both have to abide in 'Deity Form' ( the practise of achieving union with your personal deity is largely unknown in the 'west' but again.. not impossible ) , that itself implies level of realisation and precepts in 'Deity Yoga' being held by both initiates so also both have to cultivate their awareness of the goal ..

so truly ..this is a path for 2 ..

and as LL implied , it's a whole time , holistic practise of extraordinary character reserved for masters with families, mostly ;)

It of course rises questions .. whether all masters do have equally gifted counterparts ..

[Bill Ryan]

-------

Dear All,

ROMANWKT has asked to be retired from the forum, and so we've honored his request. This thread was brought to our attention by several members, and we'd been discussing what best to do for the greatest good of the thread, himself and the members.

In the end, Roman spared us further trouble by falling on his sword, and so we agree with him that this is the best resolution. We thank him for all his past contributions, and will leave this thread open so that his material can continue to be discussed if it holds the members' interest.

[Rocky_Shorz]

wow...

been busy in other areas and just took a look, hard to read book, dude, it's wrong...

the closest man comes to heaven is finishing...

I'd be grumpy too...

you've been a wealth of info since you joined Avalon, sorry to see you go, but if your path and bringing others onto it is important enough to move on, you'll be missed, but best of luck in your ventures...

[araucaria]

I have read most of Roman’s book. I just have one comment before coming to my own contribution. If we are talking about this:

What is important is to know how to love the woman. What is
important is to withdraw from the sexual act without spilling the semen. This is how the
fire of the Holy Spirit is awakened. This is how the ardent serpent of our reproductive
organs rises. There is nothing more sublime than love, the kiss, and the sexual act. When
we do not spill the semen, the latter is then transmuted into seminal vapors. The seminal
vapors are transmuted into energies. The sexual energies are bipolarized into positive and
negative; the positive ones are solar and the negative ones are lunar.
These solar and lunar currents rise up to the cerebrum.
The solar currents are related to the right nostril and the lunar currents with the left
nostril. Two nervous, sympathetic cords, which are two canals that intertwine themselves
along the spinal medulla and reach the cerebrum, rise from our sexual organs. p.38

then “Master Helena Petrovna Blavatsky” (p.43) being a woman, is on the wrong side of this phenomenon, and calling her “master” is not going to change that. In the phrase “Seminal ejaculation is a vice that the lucifers taught us” (p.44), “us” is 100% masculine and does not include Madam Helena Blavatsky. The male/female process is clearly not reversible.

Seminal retention is one extreme of phallocentrism, the other perhaps being womanizing. To restore some balance, the thoughts I want to present here are my own current ideas from a limited viewpoint, but based on a 200-page book that I read a while back; and while I am not asking anyone to read it there is a lot more than can be touched on here. It is by a woman who knows what it is like to be the secret sexual partner of a “very high-ranking yogi-lama”, her guru, “who, as abbot of his own monastery, had taken vows of celibacy”. The book is Traveller in Space: In Search of Female Identity in Tibetan Buddhism, by June Campbell (Athlone Press, 1996). In a second post, I want to look at what light western thinking can shed on the subject.

Without wishing to generalize, I’m afraid this belongs equally well on the How Jimmy was able to Fix it !!! thread as in the spirituality subforum, since what we are talking about in my view is nothing less than a textbook case of self-perpetuating institutionalized sexual predation that seems to have more in common with Freud’s Vienna than with true enlightenment. What stirs me to write on this subject is this huge discrepancy between the avowed goals of a religious system and its actual performance. Much more clearly than in the pedophile scandal, those involved likely have the highest motives, but are being deceived anyway, from generation to generation, almost from the cradle.

Self-control and secrecy. Seminal retention requires great self-control. But as it is practiced by Buddhist monks committed to celibacy, it would seem to require less self-control than celibacy. The secrecy is not so much over the mystic-magical effects as over the hypocrisy of the practice as pseudo-celibacy and the abuse of a position of spiritual authority. Objections to the practice might include physiological and health issues, but they would also encompass the idea of the sex act being precisely about abandoning any controlling behaviour. This in turn implies honesty and equality, which are both lacking here.


(the author is quoting lama Beru Kyhentze Rinpoche, her emphasis) “If your Guru acts in a seemingly unenlightened manner and you feel it would be hypocritical to think him a Buddha, you should remember that your own opinions are unreliable and the apparent faults you may see only be a reflection of your own deluded state of mind. Also you should think that if your Guru acted in a completely perfect manner, he would be inaccessible and you would be unable to relate to him. It is therefore out of your Guru’s great compassion that he may show apparent flaws. This is part of his use of skilful means in order for him to be able to teach you. He is mirroring your own faults.”
Any negativity directed towards the lama-guru results in going further from enlightenment and in ‘intense suffering’ for the student. (p.9)


Control and secrecy. The need for a cover-up calls for spiritual blackmail by the perpetrators on their victims to prevent them from ever speaking out.

Trungpa Tulku explains that ‘to relate to the guru we need a tremendous amount of openness and surrendering’ and that the process can have ‘very deathly consequences’, for if disciples break their vow of promise to the master, they are destined to suffer the ‘Vajra Hell’, a threat which goes beyond the bounds, surely, of a humane teacher. In many texts, the consequences of breaking with the guru are told in graphic terms, for it is believed that, once having left a guru, a disciple’s spiritual progress ‘comes to an absolute end’ because ‘he ne never again meets with a spiritual master’, and he is subject to ‘endless wandering in the lower realms. In the case of disrespect for the guru, it is said in the texts that if the disciple ‘comes to despise his Guru, he encounters many problems in the same life and then experiences a violent death.’ (p.178-9)

A case of double standards. This is borne out by the author’s own experience:


In my own case it was only when I became involved with a lama of very high status who was openly living as a monk, that it was plainly emphasized that any indiscretion in maintaining silence over our affair might lead to madness, trouble, or even death.
As an example of what might happen, I was told that, in a previous life, the lama I was involved with had had a mistress who caused him some trouble, and in order to get rid of her he cast a spell which caused an illness, later resulting in her death. I was also told that this woman must have been a powerful demon, and that the lama had only invited her to participate in sexual acts through compassion, but her trouble-making had become impossible to bear and posed a threat to the lama’s position. This kind of information was compounded by a more concrete example of what might befall me. Some time into my own relationship with this high lama, a young Tibetan woman in her late teens, who had been taken as a second songyum, unexpectedly died suddenly from – it was said – a heart attack. (p.102-3)


Misogyny from the cradle: control through ‘denial of dependence’. Tulkus and lamas selected by males only on the basis of the reincarnation process are snatched from their mothers when still babies, to be raised by monks. The trauma is such that any sexual encounter is going to follow a mother-child scenario rather than a man-woman one. In other words, a phallocentric male is an adult version of a self-obsessed infant. And at the same time, the guru himself takes up the role of great mother while having little or no personal experience of his own mother. If this ‘destruction of ego’ sounds crazy, maybe that is because it is.

in the case of the tulku, or child-monk, the separation from the mother and the feminine sphere was often dramatic and significant in the development of a sense of self. Often it took place at such an early moment in the child’s life that it is uncertain whether or not (…) the boy child had a chance to complete a process of individuation and develop a real sense of identity, ego, or separate self from the mother. Whilst the monastic system which took over the motherly function, particularly that of dependence, later established a new identity for the boy (…) the sense of sacrificial indebtedness to the guru (…) does seem to reflect something of an unresolved denial of dependence. (p.160 )

Oedipus complex. Oedipus only marries his mother because he was separated from her in the first place. And why was that? Because he was destined to marry his mother. Circular logic? You bet. Freud calls it the return of the repressed. But what we find is not actually the mother figure returning, but the absent mother figure returning. The woman is entirely absent from the auto-erotic process whereby, instead of being projected outwards to her, the male seminal energy is in a closed circuit, moving “up to the cerebrum”. As an act of pseudo-celibacy, it is also an act of pseudo-incest; in other words, neither the self-inflicted taboo nor the natural taboo has been broken. That may be true in the technical sense, but the spirit of the law has definitely been broken. This is pure Clintonese (“I did not have sex with that woman”), but coming from religious leaders, it sounds so much more plausible. So, in addition to Buddhist notions of virgin birth, you find this idea of virgin paternity whereby a child can be fathered without ejaculating. Parental distancing begins before conception. How pathological is that? And it leads to the notion of “male motherhood” (Campbell, p.92)…

This amounts to rejection of the feminine as the male’s dark side.

The key to understanding the desires expressed by westerners vis-à-vis the Tibetan Buddhist culture must however be understood not just in terms of the gender of the scholar or student, but in the reality of the desire and yearning which all humans have in relation to the female/feminine, traditionally viewed as the dark side, the mystical, or even the messy. The idea that only men require reparation with the symbolic female, the Great Mother, or at the very least require an understanding of the female/feminine, is of course absurd, for women too are born of women, and often require to pursue the symbolic mother in the same way as men, in search of their unique subjectivity and autonomy in relation to her. For western men who write about Tibet, its religion or other facets, their position often reflects the dominant ideology which posits the male as subject and the female as object. (p.172)

Hence the secrecy surrounds the dakini herself, ‘translatable as women who dance in space’. Quoting Miranda Shaw: “The traces of women of Tantric Buddhism are sometimes obscure, enigmatic, even hidden and disguised, but they are accessible to anyone who discovers where to look for them.’

[Agape]

Araucaria, your views here are more initiated than average nevertheless please allow me to intervene with few observations . I've actually read the book mentioned by you or parts of it .. and thought ( that time , years back in Dharamsala ) that it's a good portray of how many 'western women' end up -psychologically - after being absorbed ..mostly unprepared .. in the complicated world of Tibetan Buddhism .

It reminds me of many other women who were married to foreign old fashioned cultures and found themselves at odds with the customs that were so different from their own .

Paradoxically, more some of them tried to 'become something' else than they were, more obstacles they had to face and less in ease they felt with the community .
I know, our 'western society' is a lot about equality , equalising and validating yourself through your efforts .

What does it mean for many of these girls is donning traditional Indian sari or Tibetan chuba ( type of dress ) , cooking Tibetan meals, loving 'everything Tibetan' to please the community, struggling with language they never learned properly and that will forever sound like English from their tongues ,
and trying really very hard to 'become like them' . It's hard to say 'why' do they do this,
they're usually very feminine types with kind hearts and overprotective love for the culture and 'poor exiles' or novice students eager to please their lamas in whatever way because they read in books it's the fastest way to enlightenment .

Now whether this happens in Saudi Emirates, India or Tibet ( if there was such these days ) some of their naivety is astounding while they approach these thousand years old cultures and traditions with hope to be assimilated and turned in ,
and treated as they imagine themselves, goddesses of sorts ?

There are others, 'normal types' , the more intelligent and sober people who can respect cultural norms and borders .. and are equally respected by the hosting culture for being themselves . There are countless examples of both good and bad stories,
in todays exiled Tibetan community and inter-culture bonds in general .

What happens here is a 'crash' of two different autonomous cultures who evolved separately for thousands of years and though ''we are all similar'' to each other,
there are differences and not all are easy to overcome .

The lady who wrote it had to become obviously very disillusioned with her experience of living in Tibetan community and her psychological observations reflect the overtone .





(the author is quoting lama Beru Kyhentze Rinpoche, her emphasis) “If your Guru acts in a seemingly unenlightened manner and you feel it would be hypocritical to think him a Buddha, you should remember that your own opinions are unreliable and the apparent faults you may see only be a reflection of your own deluded state of mind. Also you should think that if your Guru acted in a completely perfect manner, he would be inaccessible and you would be unable to relate to him. It is therefore out of your Guru’s great compassion that he may show apparent flaws. This is part of his use of skilful means in order for him to be able to teach you. He is mirroring your own faults.”
Any negativity directed towards the lama-guru results in going further from enlightenment and in ‘intense suffering’ for the student. (p.9)

Actually, every student is advised many times to choose your teacher carefully . Most people have more than one teacher .. it's the norm in Tibetan Buddhism for both monks and laymen to have many teachers , they're teaching different paths and lineages but essentially 'one Buddhism' so if you have any confronting views or experiences you can always approach other teacher of yours .
Becoming totally co-dependant on one person, even if he's your lama , unless you and he maintain completely pure relationship - pure in any sense - can always become dangerous .
Not because who he is or who you are but more precisely because you get trapped in powerful, isolated illusion and dependance on one person and that was never meant to be the meaning of either spiritual teachings .
Paradoxically, it's very often the disciples who ask for that , for being 'the first' , 'the only' , 'the special' . And I'd say here also the blindfold on their eyes is to blame here, instead of seeing human being in your teacher .. noble human being ,
they seek a 'deity' whom they can worship and who is going to perform miracles for them ?

I insist the mistake is on both sides , as a teacher .. forgive me to be so blatantly honest .. I'd kick some of these peoples butts straight away , simply would never allow them this close . If you accept service , money, affection .. and let people in and aren't able to keep to your vows then it's your fault as a teacher .
As a student if you live on blind faith - which isn't anything a Buddhist is ever advised and idolise your relationship in unhealthy way it's your fault as well .

Maybe the truth is somewhere in the middle . Catch 22 . If you want to believe in someones 'absolute' magical powers over life and death it's not better than faith in woodoo . If you fear someone is 'this' powerful, do you really want to love that person and why ?
Why , when these people feel uncomfy and suspect there's a dirt in the other persons mind , why don't they walk straight away ?















Misogyny from the cradle: control through ‘denial of dependence’. Tulkus and lamas selected by males only on the basis of the reincarnation process are snatched from their mothers when still babies, to be raised by monks. The trauma is such that any sexual encounter is going to follow a mother-child scenario rather than a man-woman one. In other words, a phallocentric male is an adult version of a self-obsessed infant. And at the same time, the guru himself takes up the role of great mother while having little or no personal experience of his own mother. If this ‘destruction of ego’ sounds crazy, maybe that is because it is.

in the case of the tulku, or child-monk, the separation from the mother and the feminine sphere was often dramatic and significant in the development of a sense of self. Often it took place at such an early moment in the child’s life that it is uncertain whether or not (…) the boy child had a chance to complete a process of individuation and develop a real sense of identity, ego, or separate self from the mother. Whilst the monastic system which took over the motherly function, particularly that of dependence, later established a new identity for the boy (…) the sense of sacrificial indebtedness to the guru (…) does seem to reflect something of an unresolved denial of dependence. (p.160 )


In reality - no they don't . They're not taken away as 'babies' , ever . If they're selected at the age of 2 or 3 ( that's exceptionally early ) they still remain in their family until they are much older , at least of school age , to be accepted to the monastic community .

Even then .. they actually receive double ( or rather triple care ) than many other children if they choose it . There's no enforcement going on in there .
If they choose to stay home and have 'normal life' , no one says a word .

If they are so aware as some of them are .. and want to live in the monastery it's a safe heaven . They can see their parents as often as they like IF the parents live close enough .

They have at least two very kind and motherly adults as carers and personal teachers and plenty of kids - other monks to play with .
They're not ordained as 'full monks' till much later in life and if they decide, at any age that they'd prefer secular life it's always an option.


Sorry if I've drifted away from the topic here ... I do agree otherwise with the general meaning of yours ,

where it comes to human sexuality, idolising people before you actually know them closely, from head to toe looks like impossible task to me .

If I'd be very straight about it again...I'd say 'enlightened beings' do not need sex .

Everyone else being sentient and vulnerable and has to be approached carefully , and their characters checked before you ever think of them as your counterparts.



:hand:

[greybeard]

Having read quite a bit on Tantric and some male teachers who claim to have been enlightened through that union, I can say that I have never heard of any couple becoming enlightened at the same moment/time through this.
I have not read of any woman becoming enlightened through this.

Also an enlightenment experience is not it, as experiences are transient and temporary--

For me again after studying for years, im back were I started with the teachings of Ramana.
Very simple---" Find out who is asking these questions?"
Beyond all that is awareness --- which is aware of itself, not dependent on anything external--ultimately there is nothing external.
No subject object----
For me this definition says it all, it encompasses everything, yet is powerful and simple " One without a second"

Chris

[NancyV]

Having read quite a bit on Tantric and some male teachers who claim to have been enlightened through that union, I can say that I have never heard of any couple becoming enlightened at the same moment/time through this.
I have not read of any woman becoming enlightened through this.

Also an enlightenment experience is not it, as experiences are transient and temporary--

For me again after studying for years, im back were I started with the teachings of Ramana.
Very simple---" Find out who is asking these questions?"
Beyond all that is awareness --- which is aware of itself, not dependent on anything external--ultimately there is nothing external.
No subject object----
For me this definition says it all, it encompasses everything, yet is powerful and simple " One without a second"

Chris
:lol: The problem is it's TOO danged simple! What fun is there if we don't get to think it takes years of self flagellation, discipline, denial of sexual pleasure, denial of our natural instincts and the need to follow a master? Where is the joy of overcoming extreme adversity and passing difficult tests?? I find it supremely amusing that we love to complicate things here and I laugh at myself (since there is only self) all the time!

[Delight]

What fun is there if we don't get to think it takes years of self flagellation, discipline, denial of sexual pleasure, denial of our natural instincts and the need to follow a master? Where is the joy of overcoming extreme adversity and passing difficult tests?? I find it supremely amusing that we love to complicate things here and I laugh at myself (since there is only self) all the time!

You are funny and your point rings true. IMO it reinforces (taking at face value) that one size can't fit all beings. Also, desire can't be "flagellated away". To squelch one's desires (no matter how weird others may find them) is IMO bound to keep that desire simmering in the back ground. Also desire may become "perverse" when suppressed.

Roman introduced me to a new "Gee You Are You" who knows she is working through temporary and transient instincts IN her body:


"Have a long sleek, sexy body? USE it as desired and you will soon be bored and tired of repetitions. New desires appear until exhausted through stimulation. Desire may "look" as "bad bad cat" to others but there's a catch. If you desire the chase but stop yourself, you will watch mice longingly. To avoid looking like a cat is to be paradoxically attached, so BE the cat. Hatch all schemes and attachment will soon be less extreme."- Kitty Pussie Cat Philosopher

[Chester]

You may have been a womanizer and I guess that would make me a manizer. I've always loved men.....LOTS of them. I feel no guilt and I am not "sinful". The best thing I ever did was throw away all religious, spiritual and esoteric teachings and go my own way in my years of out of body travels. The only one who can enslave us is ourselves. I believe no teaching and no one who promotes fear, guilt, sin, weakness and helplessness. We are all powerful beings who are part of the Love, which is what the Source/God is.

Where have you beeeeeeeeen!!!, Nancy?

I sure hope Roman reads this and gets off his own case.

[DNA]

Dang Roman

I was afraid you were preparing for an exit with all of those F-bombs you were dropping..
For the record, I'm actually going to miss your grumpy ass.

I will always remember you as our resident grumpy old man. And I mean that and I hope it is taken in an endearing way. http://www.myemoticons.com/emoticons/images/msn/new-emoticons/hug.gif

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_LJTQPNJ1GMM/S-co1jtK6GI/AAAAAAAAAlo/gmGHCXwEzlY/s1600/lawn.jpg



As far as our topic in this page is concerned, I thought I would post some pointers I have found.

Nothing but love Roman. Take care of yourself. :)


As strange as it may seem, I actually agree with what you have been stating here in so far as it relates to higher spirituality. Everything has a cost, including something as amazing as orgasm.

I didn't come up with the list below, I found it here. (http://laytreasuresinheaven.com/13-tips-to-quit-masturbating/) I'm personally not of the same mindset as this dude who wrote these pointers, but regardless of their effect, they are entertaining non-the-less.

http://laytreasuresinheaven.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/quit-stop-masturbating.jpg


1) Rewarding Yourself
Never reward yourself with what you’re trying to quit. If you’ve been clean for three weeks and you feel very accomplished, don’t ever say, “I’ve done such a good job! I’ll go ahead and reward myself now by masturbating.” I can promise you that more often than not, this doesn’t work.

2) Tempting Times
Temptations come most often when we’re weak; when we’re tired, stressed, angry, or depressed. For each of these emotions, have a plan of action already put in place in case you’re tempted. In the middle of these emotions, you won’t be thinking straight. But if you have a plan of action already set in place, you can know exactly what to do to avoid the temptation when it comes.

Another way to look at this also, is to know how to control your emotions. Satan feeds off of our emotions when we feel low and down on ourselves. Don’t let Satan attack you when you’re at your weakest.

3) Late Nights
Late nights are notorious for temptation. If you’re tempted in bed or late at night, try wearing something more than just boxers. If you have to, try wearing three or four layers. Wear even more if you have to. It might be uncomfortable to sleep in, but if it helps, do it. The thought behind it is that you have lots of layers to take off before you’ll masturbate. If your mind is strong enough, you’ll have sufficiently controlled your thoughts before all the layers are removed.

4) Cold Turkey
In my experience, stopping cold turkey is the best. Many people think, “I’m going to make it four days and then I’ll masturbate. Then, I’ll make it a week, and I’ll masturbate. Then I’ll make it a week and a half, and I’ll masturbate…” In theory, slowly lengthening the amount of days in between each slip-up should work well, but I haven’t seen it. You might be able to do it one or two times, but then you give in. Besides, there’s a flaw in one’s thinking here. If you’re planning to sin four days from now, and then after that, you plan to sin a week later, is that really repenting?

5) Unreal Expectations
After you’ve gone for a long period of time without masturbating, your mind starts to play tricks on you saying, “It would feel so good!” Normally, if you give in, it doesn’t feel as good as you’d imagined. And even if it does, it’s ten seconds of pleasure and then you feel shameful, guilty, and frustrated that you now have to start all over after how far you’ve come. Your mind builds up expectations and ideas that just aren’t reality.

6) Drag you Down
I heard this story somewhere, and I feel like it’s absolutely applicable to this article:

“Every summer when we go to the beach, we go crabbing at least once on the marsh side of the island, armed with string and some bait. As we net our catch, we toss them into a bucket. Once we catch a dozen or more crabs, they create enough mass in the bottom that any one of them could easily climb out on the backs of their fellow crabs.

But we’ve never had a crab escape. Why? Because every time a crab reaches to grab the rim of the bucket and achieve freedom, all the other crabs swarm that one and haul it back down. It’s as if they’re saying, “Hey, if I’m stuck here, I’m gonna make sure you’re stuck, too!”

After awhile, even the most ambitious crabs stop trying and lay down with the others. They all die together.”

The same goes for humans. Especially within teenage guys. If you let your friends know that you’re trying to stop masturbating, they’ll probably just pull you down saying, “It’s not that bad.” Or “There’s nothing wrong with masturbating.”

7) Get rid of Porn
Get rid of all pornographic material. And you have to be pretty serious about it. Throw away any magazines that you might have. You can’t keep any hidden underneath your mattress. Holding onto just one little magazine means you’re still holding onto your addiction. Get rid of it. If you have a computer in your room, move it to a different room in your house that is public so everyone can see the screen. I can guarantee you’re not going to look at pornography with your parents walking by. If you have the computer in a public room, but have troubles getting online when nobody is home, make all the arrangements you can to not be home alone. If you’re parents are going to the store, go with them, etc.

This also includes getting rid of anything such as condoms, toys, or anything else you might have that reminds you of masturbation. Get rid of it. Now.

8) Stay Busy
Don’t think about it. Get your mind occupied on something else. Have you ever seen a smoker who sat on his couch all day long saying, “Man, I wish I could smoke right now… I’m really craving a cigarette right now…” that person ever quit smoking? No. Of course not. The longer you think about it, the sooner you’re going to give into your addiction. Do you have a hobby that you really enjoy? Delve into it. If you don’t have a hobby, now is the time to find one. Do anything and everything you can to stay busy in one way or another. And the more mind-activity it uses, the better. For example: Doing a puzzle is going to keep your mind more active than watching a movie. Find something to do where you can’t easily be distracted.



9) Spiritual Help
Prayer and Scripture study are going to be key in quitting masturbating. All of these tips that I’ve already listed help, but it’s impossible to quit without the help of the Lord. If we rely on him, he’s going to in turn help us. You have to absolutely dive into the scriptures and fervently study them, not just read them. As you study them, you’ll gain the spiritual power to withstand your trials.

Along with that, it would be a good idea to do a special fast for yourself. And don’t ever feel like it’s wrong to fast for yourself to overcome temptation. It doesn’t have to be a Sunday, either. You can do it whenever you want. But in fasting, as you give up your bodily cravings (food), the Lord will reward you with more of an ability to resist other temptations that befall you.

I would strongly recommend speaking with your Bishop, also. Most things can be fixed with the help of a Bishop, but at times, counselors from LDS Family Services can be called in. This is rare, but if needed, he would be able to refer you to a counselor that can help as well. Many people who have never been to a Bishop for help are often scared to go talk to him. Please don’t be scared. Your Bishop is there to help you, and he will not talk to your parents. It’s something between you and the Lord. He may advice you to speak with your parents about the problems you’re having, but he can never disclose what the two of you have talked about.

10) Plan of Action
Create a plan of action. Each one of us is different; therefore, we’ll be tempted in different locations and at different times. Some are tempted in bed at night, while others are tempted while they’re in the shower. Some might be tempted while using the rest room. Go throughout your day and think of all the times and places where you’re most tempted to masturbate. For each of these times, come up with a plan of action. Decide right here and now what you’re going to do to avoid it, because when you’re in the moment, you won’t be able to think clearly. It can be something as simple as dropping to the ground and doing twenty pushups. Or if you’re tempted in the shower, try using a washcloth to clean yourself rather than skin-on-skin contact. Whatever it may be, make sure that you have a good plan of action, or even two or more, so that you’ll quickly be able to run away from the temptation when it arises.

It’s been mentioned that daily rigorous physical exercise can help to reduce the urge to masturbate.

11) Thought Control
Imagine that you’re sitting in a theater watching a three-act play. Only one act can play at a time. You can’t have act one and act two playing at the same time. The stage only has enough room for one act at a time. Our mind is the same. We can’t have a dirty thought and a good thought at the same time. One takes place and will push the other off the stage. Masturbation ALWAYS begins with a thought. Every single time. The desire that you have was initially triggered by a thought. If you can quickly change that thought before it takes place, the temptation to masturbate can be completely avoided.

I want you to think of your favorite color. Now, imagine that I’m holding up a book in front of you. You can clearly see the cover. You can clearly see the words. Then, I put up a second book in front of you. It’s a different book, which obviously has a different cover and different wording. And again, I hold up a new, different, third book. Like the two before it, it has a different cover and a different title. Good. Now, what does this have to do with your favorite color? Nothing. The purpose is to simply change your thoughts onto something else. As you were staring at the third book, you weren’t thinking of your favorite color until I reminded you of it again. This can be a good tool to use in the event that a bad thought enters your mind.

I want you to think of three events in your life that made you really happy. It could be a family vacation to the Grand Canyon, or a really fun day with friends. Whatever they are, make sure that you have three memories picked out and saved. One of the personal memories that I like to use is of my Father and I working on the car. It’s something that I can recall with so much detail. When I think of that, I always picture my Dad’s face. I always picture us laughing because we did something wrong, or simply just being in his company. For me, that memory has such a strong emotion attached to it, that I lose all other thoughts for anything else as I think about it.

Have you got your three? In the case that a bad thought comes into your mind, think of your first memory. Ponder it in your mind and relive the moment with the most detail that you can. Is the bad thought still in your mind? Think about memory number two. Again, relive the moment. Think about who was speaking in the memory, or what it smelled like, or what you were hearing. If the thought is still in your mind, move onto memory number three and do the same. By this time, the bad thought should have been completely replaced.

Some may ask, “Why do bad thoughts even come to me? They just pop into my head. It’s not like I want them there.” I once heard a quote by Martin Luther that said, “You cannot keep birds from flying over your head, but you can keep them from building a nest in your hair.” The same goes for our thoughts. Yes, bad thoughts do randomly come to our minds. But we can decide if we let them stay or if we let them go. And you’ll find that as you get better at replacing bad thoughts for good, the amount of bad thoughts coming to your mind will become less and less.

One last trick to controlling your thoughts is to memorize your favorite Church hymn and sing it in your head as you have a bad thought. Again, there can only be one thing on the stage of your mind as a time. As you sing, that thought will be replaced.

12) Repeated Offense
If you slip up and do masturbate, don’t just call it a “free day” and then masturbate as many more times as you can in that day just to “get it out of your system.” I think a lot of people use this approach and say, “Ah. I already messed up. I’ll just get it out of my system, and start new again tomorrow.” It’s great to pick yourself up and start again the next day, but don’t just go hay wire and do it as many times as you can before 12:00 hits. You’re only doing yourself hurt.

1. A sin is a sin. Murder is still murder. Just because you killed one person that day, it’s not okay to say, “Ah. I messed up today. I’ll keep killing today, but I’ll try to stop again tomorrow.”

2. If you’ve ever read the small pamphlet called, “To Young Men Only”, Elder Boyd K. Packer compares our bodies to a factory. He does a much better job of explaining it than I can and so you should probably read it here (it’s only a couple pages), but I’ll still explain the basic process of it. When a product is in high demand, the factory produces more product. And when a product is in lesser demand, the factory doesn’t produce as much. Our body can be compared to a factory. When you masturbate, your body secretes semen as a by-product. Your body then says, “I need to work hard to replace the semen that I just lost.” And so it does. Let’s say your body is used to masturbating three times a week, and then you stop all of a sudden. Your body is still producing semen at the same rate that you used to get rid of it, but now it’s all built up and you have no way to release it. And at times, the urge to masturbate comes simply because your body wants to get rid of that semen like it’s used to. Luckily, our body has a natural way of doing that (it doesn’t need our help) called wet dreams.

Even if you slip up and you just want to do it as many times as you can in one day, you’re just hurting yourself by speeding up your body’s “factory” and it will only make you want to masturbate sooner, later.

13) Don’t Give Up
And last but not least, don’t give up. You really can do it. I promise. I know that sometimes it feels like you’ll never be able to quit. You may have been trying to stop masturbating for years even. That’s okay. The Atonement of Jesus Christ is real and you can change.

One thing that I think is important to mention is that there really is a “hump.” Meaning, once you get past a certain point, it does get easier. After three weeks to a month, your body will start so slow down and you won’t have the pressure build-up anymore. Just keep going. You can do it. You’re doing great! I’m so proud of you for your desire to change. And I know your Heavenly Father and Jesus Christ are both very proud as well.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Happy Trails Roman
Take Care

[Tenzin]

Thanks Roman, for your courage to share.

Thanks to DNA too for the very helpful post. Those who has seen through the veilS of the physical AS WELL AS the astral, will certainly take such practices seriously.

I kind of like having an open mind (it can be daunting at times), it allows me space to investigate what I still do not fully understand.

May all be free from the "matrix" soonest.

[sdv]

If we share on threads and start new threads in the hope of finding affirmation and a following, then we will be disappointed.
All we can do is speak when we have the courage to do so, lick our wounds when we are attacked (I tend to retreat in silence rather than engage with and fight those who challenge me ... the resident wimp!!!) explore with interest what is shared here, and appreciate the gems we find, even if we remain invisible in that search and discovery.
Even though I have not found any kind of connection or affirmation here, I want to stay because I come across so much amazing information that expands my life experience.
In my own personal journey, I have come across so much sharing that has given me information that has helped me to understand why and how. (My personal incarnations are about experiencing and gathering information, and, gosh, this is a great place to do that!)
I never know which post is going to reveal another door for me.
I do know that this is the only place that creates such doors, in my life.
So, please do keep sharing, because perhaps there are many other selfish member like me that never open doors for others but find new doors in what others share, but are not followers, adherents to religion, belief, cult, and so on. You don't need to have a fan club to offer doors for others, and you will probably find more doors than you provide.
Hope I make sense to at least one person here!

PS This is a comment about a regular leaving the forum! ;):focus:

[Tangri]

-------

Dear All,

ROMANWKT has asked to be retired from the forum, and so we've honored his request. This thread was brought to our attention by several members, and we'd been discussing what best to do for the greatest good of the thread, himself and the members.

In the end, Roman spared us further trouble by falling on his sword, and so we agree with him that this is the best resolution. We thank him for all his past contributions, and will leave this thread open so that his material can continue to be discussed if it holds the members' interest.

Thank you for supporting Roman's self requested retirement position. I believe it was the right time to resting (and wake up) for him other wise it wouldn't be honorable discharge for an old veteran of Avalon.

[Grizz Griswold]

Here's to you Roman.


“My teachings are easy to understand
and easy to put into practice.
Yet your intellect will never grasp them,
and if you try to practice them,you'll fail.

My teachings are older than the world.
How can you grasp their meaning?

If you want to know me,
Look inside your heart.”
― Lao Tzu, Tao Te Ching

Your friend.....Grizz

[Alberto e Daniela]

Hi everybody,

it is important for us to see a discussion about the writings of Victor Gomez (who later took the name of Samael Aun Weor) taking place amoung people who had no connection with his gnostic movement, and nevertheless want to get involved in this thread because they are open to new ideas.

And when you haven't been through a thourough conditioning that makes you see the Avatar (Samael) as infallible and the Twin brother of Jesus "the" Christ (as current day "gnostics" say) you are free to see his countless mistakes, plagiarisms, insults, contradictions for what they are, and don't feel obliged to cover each of them using a wide arsenal of excuses, as his followers do.

The many branches of the so called modern gnosticism which stemmed from the gnostic movement of Samael are always at war with each other, each one claiming the leadership and accusing the others of treason, but they all have in common a hard work to create powerful thought-forms in the poor minds of their students, which have the effect of raising Mr. Gomez - Samael to the level of a God, and therefore completely unquestionable. Fear and guilt are the two pillars of that artificial mind which gets implanted.

The reality is very different, and for those who can read spanish, a large part of it is explained with great detail in a forum of ex-students (http://lagnosisdevelada.com) who expose the inconvenient truth behind Samael and his successors. For those who can't read spanish, let's recap that by saying that the resulting image is that of a delusional personality, but that had charisma and power in abundant amounts, and arguably was able to perform paranormal acts.

What is very interesting is that this double nature seems a common trait of many modern "masters" and "gurus", who blend the two conflicting facets of a superior man, able to have many followers, and that of a delirious man, who cannot accept any questioning, because he is somehow aware of the fragility of his basis and doctrine.

The best hypotesis we have about this, which was also expressed in this same thread, is that some people who are somehow "apt" for the role, are chosen by some hidden entities, and given special powers and knowledge, and are made to believe that they act on behalf of God: then they are used to create "energy farms", where they are the "Shepherds", enjoing semi-divine status, but also paying for their "gifts" or possession with serious sickness and delusions.

And in the corral of these shepherds, abundant amounts of worship and suffering are created fresh daily, by many different techniques, for the enjoyment and feeding of the unseen puppeteers.

Who are these? We started wondering about this a few years ago, while trying to break free from a gnostic school, and believe that the answer is correctly described in many places in this forum. They must be creatures who want to be seen as gods, but are simply more advanced than we are under a technological point of view (and usually make that advantage appear as a divine) and that feed on certain energies which come from human excitation (fear, rage, terror, fervent worshipping and a form of sexual energy ).

Some effects of the gnostic treatment, are visible in the messages of this thread where Samael's book was "imposed" or dissenting members were insulted. Samael did the same.

If members or ex members of the gnostic movement are reading this, we'd like to tell them that it is possible to move out of the grip of the conditioning that was implanted on us and on many more friends of ours, at the hands of the enemies of mankind. We have been through that, with a different master, a successor of Samael called Luis Bernardo Palacio Acosta ( also called venerable maestro Thoth-Moisés) , and will share our story in a different thread, as we believe there are many important elements which help understading other phenomena and situations that have to do with mind control, alien presence, and the suppression or growth of consciousness.


P.s. If these words elicit a strong reaction, dear gnostic friend, please use self-observation to realize that whatever words are urging you to bang them on your keyboard, just because of their urgency, can not be coming from the Essence which you certainly wowed to awaken; rather, they are part of the program which tries to control so many people and makes us react in stereotyped forms, which are so common and recognizable just because they are all copies of the same pattern.

[Sidney]

Thank you for sharing RomanK, saved it and will read it later when I am in the mood for 100 pages. I will comment tonight or tomorrow after I have read it, it sounds interesting enough to spend the time on it.

[araucaria]

(snip)
If I'd be very straight about it again...I'd say 'enlightened beings' do not need sex .
(snip)
Hi Agape, I thought you might respond, thank you for your post: for the factual errors I quoted, I defer to your greater knowledge of Tibetan culture. I do find it astounding, though, just how much distortion can be injected into supposedly scientific discourse backed moreover by personal experience, when this experience has been somehow traumatic – whether for objective or more subjective reasons. June Campbell has done what a trained anthropologist would avoid at all costs – become personally involved in the foreign culture – and she demonstrates the wisdom of that ground rule. On the other hand, Jeremy Narby, who is a trained anthropologist, broke that rule as being the only way to understand the shamanic ayahuasca ritual (in The Cosmic Serpent), and he gained some crucial insights in so doing. So this is an area where we are having to make up the rules as we go along. Fortunately in the case of Buddhism, we have compassionate and effective outreach in the other direction from the likes of the Dalai Lama. The bottom line is that we cannot possibly be ready for ET when we observe such ongoing difficulties understanding other cultures on this planet.

I don’t want to go further into the issues raised by June Campbell, except to note without comment that the lama in question was Kalu Rinpoche, who in his latest reincarnation, seems himself to have come in for sexual abuse at a monastery.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kalu_Rinpoche

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/belief/2012/mar/09/youtube-confessional-buddhist-kalu-rinpoche
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z5Ka3bEN1rs

I just want to comment on the one point you made that I have quoted above. I agree when you say that “'enlightened beings' do not need sex”. The thing is that there are many more people on this planet taking vows of celibacy and chastity (no sexual activity at all) than there are enlightened beings. This happens because celibacy is usually packaged with something else. If it is bundled with the contemplative seclusion of a monastery, the two things may well work together in an effective synergy. But if, say, the package involves a priestly ministry as spiritual adviser and confessor to married men and women, as in the Catholic church for instance, then this is going to be extremely difficult: the priest himself is going to experience the cultural clash between the man and the priest. This is a recipe for disaster, because if he behaves like our trained anthropologist, he is not going to be much help in understanding people’s problems, and if he begins to understand them it will be from the inside, and he will need to become more like his flock. In other words, you are setting a standard so high that any real life situation is likely to fall short, to be somehow a ‘failure’, and needing to be covered up.

As I suggest, there are few beings enlightened enough to embrace celibacy from the outset. Both enlightenment and celibacy are finished states, whereas most people, myself included, are a work in progress. We are happy to have the few enlightened in our midst, but while they can detach themselves from just about any need, also including nourishment and even air to breathe, I personally am more concerned about how ordinary people interact, for that is where things usually go wrong. Celibacy as total abstinence does not fit in anywhere with the spectrum of sexual practices, all of which are at once somehow similar and poles apart. In its unpackaged form, promiscuity, or sex for its own sake, seems as far away as one can get, and yet it shares with celibacy this emotional detachment from other people that makes a long-term commitment impossible. On the other hand, a lifelong monogamous relationship, which might be described as ‘celibacy with one notable exception’, survives and thrives on every kind of attachment to the other, particularly therefore of the other sex. Sex is just one component of this immersive package tour of the other, along with friendship, companionship, and every flavor of love, agapé as well as eros, the latter leading off through reproduction to other others as well.
What happens with an unconditional bond is acceptance of the other’s otherness. Like changing cultures, the foreign becomes familiar and the familiar becomes foreign. In other words, one discovers and learns to integrate one’s own foreignness while becoming detached from the over-familiar – the hard part being not to swing too far in the opposite direction. If this is what we are here to learn, then perhaps celibacy is slightly too difficult at this stage. Indeed, any unconditional till-death-us-do-part relationship is too difficult for many, with spouses of course, but even sometimes with one’s children. It is at this grassroots level of the silent majority that we need to make progress, IMHO.