Mind control begins/ began with YOU

[joeecho]

Mind control began with YOU (no, not you).




On the other side of the mirror looking back at you is...I. :wave:

I am your minds control and you are mine.

Now mirror that to infinity and you have 'existence'.

You find this in the world of words.....

Control (contracted form of the word 'counter-roll')

Roll (some synonyms for the purpose of this thread): Meditate, Contemplate, Reflect, Think, Mind (Psyche, Ego, I)

Thus...

Counter Roll
Second Roll
Equivalent Roll (Roll Roll)

Thus...

Roll - Roll
Ego - Ego
Mind - Mind
I - I

Without a mind I have no awareness of 'you'. Without your mind you have no awareness of 'me'. Without mind 'we' are ONE. Mind is the illusion. Without mind there is no control of any kind.

A person could say there is good and evil versions of mind control. A good type would be to control ones own appetites for instance.

Internal Mind Control = ? Good
External Mind Control = ? Evil

But I can't help shake the idea that even 'Internal Mind Control' is external (?Ego)

Two people are not ONE when they THINK the same way. Two people are ONE when there is no thought between them, within them or external to them.

Jim Carrey speaks of this in a beautiful way.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lsQJyKhmqkQ


:love:

[Johnny]

Beautiful joeecho.

So what we understand as mind control, is the control of the controller, a sort of double lock, when we see it from the outside.

Johnny

[ghostrider]

Thinking for yourself is the anomaly in this Matrix ... Accept the program or think for yourself , I must agree , mind control begins with the individual ... Program - a set of steps with a designed outcome ... The beautiful thing is no matter the path taken , in the end , it all comes back to a singularity ... spirit merges back with creation where it came from ... everything in between was for learning and evolution to expand the creation ...

[joeecho]

Yes, that is another good way of putting it, Johnny.

You could take the idea of 'double lock' and extend it infinitely. Like the symbol of a circle, a circle has infinite sides or infinite locks.

A THOUGHT: when looking from the outside, as you put it, are we not using MIND to assess the situation?

It's such a tricky thing because we are using mind to understand 'things' and the mind's line of defense it to utterly reject such radical things as complete nonsense. Our mind allows us to peel the layers of the onion but once it gets down to the core or last step....it cannot go any further because of it's nature. It's nature is to say that the last layer IS the core.

[joeecho]

Thinking for yourself is the anomaly in this Matrix ... Accept the program or think for yourself , I must agree , mind control begins with the individual ... Program - a set of steps with a designed outcome ... The beautiful thing is no matter the path taken , in the end , it all comes back to a singularity ... spirit merges back with creation where it came from ... everything in between was for learning and evolution to expand the creation ...

Nicely said ghostrider!

Could it be said that thinking for yourself is the closest to the truth but not Truth itself?

"in the end , it all comes back to a singularity"

May I add..... time is an illusion and thus it has, is and always will be singularity (Sequence is a dream)?

A video that just popped up in my head about this.... May it be of value.....


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jk5i4GX1BJY

[Johnny]

Yes, that is another good way of putting it, Johnny.

You could take the idea of 'double lock' and extend it infinitely. Like the symbol of a circle, a circle has infinite sides or infinite locks.



Yes, but it is the center of the circle that maintains it, and you can have many circles around the center, or other shapes. imo all things have a center and if you remove the center the structure/s will collapse.


A THOUGHT: when looking from the outside, as you put it, are we not using MIND to assess the situation?

I used the word seeing, in my opinion there is a huge difference between looking and seeing :)

We think our thoughts, which in most cases is not ours, alone because of the language we have learned.

We interpret sometimes mind images with verbal thoughts, as described above.

And we also make, what is a very popular term today, connect the dots.

If I was born and raised in Finland, I would think in the Finnish language, which would be a disaster for me, because I can not a single Finnish word. (OK maybe Nokia, but Microsoft has bought the firm now :))

Now, the clever would say, If you where born and raised in Finland you would have learned the Finnish language. And it is in a way the crucial point to understand the start of the mind.

That was how I saw it first, and everything I heard, said and understood was filtered through that.
I was nearly 17 years old when that insight came, and Nokia was not invented at that time :) At that time I had absolutely no idea what 'had been stuffed in me', so from looking at a disaster (thinking in the Finnish language and not being able to understand it) I was now facing a disaster :)




It's such a tricky thing because we are using mind to understand 'things' and the mind's line of defense it to utterly reject such radical things as complete nonsense. Our mind allows us to peel the layers of the onion but once it gets down to the core or last step....it cannot go any further because of it's nature. It's nature is to say that the last layer IS the core.

Yes, and that is where we have to remove 'the center', NOT destroy, but just gently remove it so we can see clearly :)


Thinking for yourself is the anomaly in this Matrix ... Accept the program or think for yourself , I must agree , mind control begins with the individual ... Program - a set of steps with a designed outcome ... The beautiful thing is no matter the path taken , in the end , it all comes back to a singularity ... spirit merges back with creation where it came from ... everything in between was for learning and evolution to expand the creation ...
There is no 'The End' ghostrider :) but you are quite right imo, 'the end' comes when we decide it (take action for it), and THAT is the beautiful beginning !!!

But you hit the nail on the head :)

Johnny

[Johnny]

A video that just popped up in my head about this.... May it be of value.....



Thanks for the video, I have not seen this before, I like Watts :)

Johnny

[Johnny]

A THOUGHT: when looking from the outside, as you put it, are we not using MIND to assess the situation?



It is a good thought !! And if we are seeing, there can go years before the mind are able to interpret, what we have been seeing in a given situation.

Johnny :)

[Johnny]

Yes, but it is the center of the circle that maintains it, and you can have many circles around the center, or other shapes. imo all things have a center and if you remove the center the structure/s will collapse.


And here with your own words joeecho:




Without a mind I have no awareness of 'you'. Without your mind you have no awareness of 'me'. Without mind 'we' are ONE. Mind is the illusion. Without mind there is no control of any kind.


Very well said !!

Johnny

[joeecho]

The reason why I began thinking of mind control is because I did not like the idea of something external to me controlling my thoughts and thus my actions (shouldn't I be Me and not someone else?). Reflecting back through the years I realized that what I BELIEVED about the world I lived in was based on information I received from family, peers, books, religion, TV shows of all types, public school, my government, mass media and the list goes on. As I began to think for myself some 35 years ago onward I found deception after deception. Things I had the strongest belief in have been validly shaken of their substance. I have found that to be the norm now. I am no longer shocked when another house of cards fall. I am more surprised that it is so pervasive. Perhaps I always knew deep down inside but something just kept telling me not to believe it. That somethings are absolutely true.

I digressed a bit.

Mind Control, I wanted to see how far deep rabbit hole goes and figuring out how to function in the world where mind control rules. I mean, if I am not that which controls than why do I feel like I am in control of 'me'? Am I in control of my joy? Am I in control of my depression? And would this not apply to all beings as well?

Many times it all feels so confusing.

[joeecho]

"Yes, and that is where we have to remove 'the center', NOT destroy, but just gently remove it so we can see clearly"

I am following but how do you remove it without this happening....

Meet the new boss
Same as the old boss

The void seeks to be filled...

[Shezbeth]

Thank you for posting this thread, this is a topic that seems to pop up with increasing frequency in discussions on Avalon, often from disparate originating discussions.

Mind control begins with an individual's willingness to accept what one has been told is 'true' as being both true and uncontestable. The individual chooses to cease further inquiry (whether through coersion or apathy - one involving externally imposed consequence, the other involving internal experienced consequence) towards one or more subjects, resulting in an incomplete analysis and the beginnings of a growing set of perceptions based on that/those analyses.

For many/most, this begins with interactions with parents/guardians who at some point in the interactions with precocious (or even obedient) children will inevitably utter a phrase such as "Because that's the way things are" or "Because I said so" or something along those lines (authoritarian dictate). Other examples come from religious/spiritual sources who are often want to condemn and/or not-tolerate analysis and questions, even those phrased and operating from a sincere curiosity (I.e. an attempt to understand as opposed to an attempt to disprove). The consistent factor in these examples are some form of authoritarian dictate originating outside the individual in whom the mind control begins and 'grows'. Subsequent to parents/guardians and religion/spiritualists come (especially in the west) school teachers, counselors, and administrators, and potentially local/state/federal workers (social workers, court appointees, judges, law enforcement,... the whole gamut that is in a position to tell a child "What is What").

The hows and why develop from there, but as you have pointed out it begins with the individual and the agreement/assent to the dictated 'truth'.

Edit: Rather, I should say that it begins with the perception of truth, which is internal whether or not the impetus for the perception is external or internal.

Hypothetically, I find myself wondering about the experience of a theoretical individual existing without outside stimulus/instruction, but that leads to the recognition that absent dictated instruction there would experiential instruction. In this light, the only existence possible that could be entirely absent any form of stimulus would be a singularity.

[joeecho]

As I free think after reading your rely, Shezbeth, I wonder if this speaks of our eternal essence (in the face of persistent mind control). A refusal to be permanently controlled in any form. An example I am thinking of is elasticity: (physics) The property by virtue of which a material deformed under the load can regain its original dimensions when unloaded.

That is what I sense is going on to most if not all of us but my gut tells me our 'original dimension' NEVER changes. That deforming action (in this case, mind control), which is a function of time/ space, is an illusion.


Reality is merely an illusion, albeit a very persistent one.

-- Albert Einstein


That persistence is quite the bug-bear. Trips me up every time! :gaah:

[joeecho]

Yes, but it is the center of the circle that maintains it, and you can have many circles around the center, or other shapes. imo all things have a center and if you remove the center the structure/s will collapse.


And here with your own words joeecho:




Without a mind I have no awareness of 'you'. Without your mind you have no awareness of 'me'. Without mind 'we' are ONE. Mind is the illusion. Without mind there is no control of any kind.


Very well said !!

Johnny

So could it be said that (mind) control is a two edged sword?

A gift because it gives us the ability to go places. do things and converse with others.
A curse because that same control controls us?

Now I am thinking of a puppet. The strings are its controls but without them it is just a jumbled mess on the floor.

But just because we cannot SEE the strings (external control) doesn't mean it's not a puppet. We also have the HAND (internal control) puppet.

Wasn't Pinocchio still a puppet after the strings were removed? I mean, he was taught (mind control) many things before those strings were removed.

Poor Pinocchio! :p

[Johnny]

I am following but how do you remove it without this happening....

Meet the new boss
Same as the old boss

The void seeks to be filled...

The mind will be much more humble and relieved, because now it does not have to do all the work alone, and maybe it will start to love you :)

But when one start seeing, it is important to see that one is seeing, and that it just is seeing, and never compare oneself with anything or anybody. (imo) !

Time here now is 01:45 am, so it is time for me to go to bed, but I will return tomorrow :)

Johnny

[joeecho]

Hypothetically, I find myself wondering about the experience of a theoretical individual existing without outside stimulus/instruction, but that leads to the recognition that absent dictated instruction there would experiential instruction. In this light, the only existence possible that could be entirely absent any form of stimulus would be a singularity.


I try to imagine singularity without stimulus and I imagine NO senses or thoughts. Like being suspended in a vacuum with all neuro pathways blocked in the brain and thinking no thoughts including thinking that I am not thinking.

I've attempted it (to see what was there, per say) in a dark quiet room while trying to suspend all thoughts and the next thing I realize is that I am waking from sleep/ dreamland. So the question I get in my head is: how close did I come to achieving my goal before sleep/ dreamland and then maybe it was also a dream that I attempted it at all. My memory says I attempted it but.... :shrugs:

[Shezbeth]

Could not sleep absent dreaming be exactly the state of non awareness you were striving for, perhaps somewhere in the middle of intending to suspend all thoughts and waking up? :p

[joeecho]

Yes, but it is the center of the circle that maintains it, and you can have many circles around the center, or other shapes. imo all things have a center and if you remove the center the structure/s will collapse.


I thought of what you wrote some more....

"all things have a center and if you remove the center the structure/s will collapse."

This is how I SEE what you wrote.....

The reason that they don't collapse is because we BELIEVE they have a center. When we stop believing in that, then they become irrelevant and collapse, in essence.

So do you have to remove what really isn't there to begin with?

Along these same lines I am reminded of a scene from the movie Practical Magic 1998 with Sandra Bullock and Nichole Kidman etc.

I tried to find the scene on the Web that I am going to refer to but was unsuccessful. Side note to self: I have the movie and should learn how to cut scenes from it.

A brief scene set up from the movie: Gary is a Sherriff investigating a possible crime that Sally may have some knowledge about.

Sally Owens to Gary: Magic isn’t just spells & potions,” she continues. “Your badge?” He allows her to retrieve it from him for illustration. “It’s just a star, just another symbol. Your talisman,” she explains. “It can’t stop criminals in their tracks, can it? It has power because you believe it does.”

So in the above mentioned scene, the badge/ star is the center.

P.s. Don't know if you enjoy movies or this type but in the chance you do, it's a fun movie with interesting and thought provoking messages within it.

[joeecho]

Could not sleep absent dreaming be exactly the state of non awareness you were striving for, perhaps somewhere in the middle of intending to suspend all thoughts and waking up? :p

That made me smile even in my deep thinking state! :cheers:

Now go count some of these :flypig: (ok, I could not find any sheep) until you fall asleep. :)

[andrewgreen]

Great thought inspiring thread and posts, although I'm not sure thought inspiring is a good thing after reading this thread :)

After watching the Jim Carey video I initially started searching about Eckhart Tolle. I read this on Wikipedia of all places and thought it very interesting.

Tolle writes that "the most significant thing that can happen to a human being [is] the separation process of thinking and awareness" and that awareness is "the space in which thoughts exist".[35] Tolle says that "the primary cause of unhappiness is never the situation but your thoughts about it''.

The Tao from my basic understanding supports this, as by removing the perspective created by self we see things as they are, neither good or bad. Therefore not being happy or sad we ourselves can just be. The separation of awareness from thought allows ourselves to be truly at one with the situation, therefore there is a paradox where we must seek non-duality by separating thought and awareness.

[joeecho]

"the primary cause of unhappiness is never the situation but your thoughts about it''.

I have often thought of this in even the most extreme cases though I won't illustrate some of extreme cases.

A cow is murdered (Bad for the cow) for its meat and other things. Food for others to survive (good for them). But really it's just a projection of an event in a larger projection of the Universe... life goes on. Next! (as the saying goes...)

I must be tired so this might be just crazy thought but don't psychopaths do this....at least to some degree.....(RE: "the primary cause of unhappiness is never the situation but your thoughts about it'')

I reserve the right to edit this tomorrow. lol

Goodnight

[joeecho]

Absence of Mind Control:

Who I am is not who I am.

I am not I

Neti Neti

[Johnny]

Yes, but it is the center of the circle that maintains it, and you can have many circles around the center, or other shapes. imo all things have a center and if you remove the center the structure/s will collapse.


I thought of what you wrote some more....

"all things have a center and if you remove the center the structure/s will collapse."

This is how I SEE what you wrote.....

The reason that they don't collapse is because we BELIEVE they have a center. When we stop believing in that, then they become irrelevant and collapse, in essence.

So do you have to remove what really isn't there to begin with?

P.s. Don't know if you enjoy movies or this type but in the chance you do, it's a fun movie with interesting and thought provoking messages within it.

Yes, I like movies, have you seen 'Inception' ???

Johnny

[TargeT]

But I can't help shake the idea that even 'Internal Mind Control' is external (?Ego)


A very interesting topic... one that has been explored in GREAT length by many very good posters here:
http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?54217-Their-Mind-and-the-Emotional-Matrix-that-we-create-with-it.&highlight=mind

and this thread is excellent as well, same topic:
http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?55117-The-Technological-Revolution-Artificial-Intelligence-and-the-Invisible-Plague

here's a brief synopsis.
R815x4BIsjU

The ego is not you, the ego may very well be a "third party" that we did not invite who's greatest trick was to make us think that it is us.

Their mind and the emotional matrix that we create with it is a very interesting subject that will make you question many things in life.

[Johnny]

So do you have to remove what really isn't there to begin with?



No, you do not have to do it, it is your choice, if you want it in your reality or not !!

Johnny

[Johnny]

But I can't help shake the idea that even 'Internal Mind Control' is external (?Ego)




A very interesting topic... one that has been explored in GREAT length by many very good posters here:
http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?54217-Their-Mind-and-the-Emotional-Matrix-that-we-create-with-it.&highlight=mind

here's a brief synopsis.
R815x4BIsjU

Thank you, I will read it tomorrow, it is bedtime for me now :-)

Johnny

Edit: Here is another one:

5UIPV8Wk0yw

Johnny

[joeecho]

Yes. I have seen Inception, good flick. It's one of those movie that I knew would be worth seeing again. Have not got back to it since it first came out tho.

Any particular thing from the movie that made you think of it?

[joeecho]

So do you have to remove what really isn't there to begin with?



No, you do not have to do it, it is your choice, if you want it in your reality or not !!

Johnny

What you said made me think of lucid dreams.

I do not see reality as being variable. It would make more sense to me, personally, if what you said was... No, you do not have to do it, it's your choice, if you want it in you illusion or not !!

Hey! If you take the center out of the word 'reality', it collapse into an illusion. :high5:

[joeecho]

[QUOTE=joeecho;827486]

But I can't help shake the idea that even 'Internal Mind Control' is external (?Ego)




A very interesting topic... one that has been explored in GREAT length by many very good posters here:
http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?54217-Their-Mind-and-the-Emotional-Matrix-that-we-create-with-it.&highlight=mind

here's a brief synopsis.


Thanks TargeT

I have memory of reading a book or two from Carlos Castaneda, probably a couple of decades ago (man, that sounds so strange...decades ago...time is so surreal). I remember enjoying it.

I believe it was The Teachings Of Don Juan.

[Johnny]

Yes. I have seen Inception, good flick. It's one of those movie that I knew would be worth seeing again. Have not got back to it since it first came out tho.

Any particular thing from the movie that made you think of it?

Just what I think the movie is about: To plant an idea in another persons head.

Edit: without the other person know anything about it !! (are aware of it)

Johnny

[Johnny]

So do you have to remove what really isn't there to begin with?



No, you do not have to do it, it is your choice, if you want it in your reality or not !!

Johnny

What you said made me think of lucid dreams.

I do not see reality as being variable. It would make more sense to me, personally, if what you said was... No, you do not have to do it, it's your choice, if you want it in you illusion or not !!

Hey! If you take the center out of the word 'reality', it collapse into an illusion. :high5:

Now you are very very close :) I like to use concept instead of word. So when you make the concept 'reality' to collapse, the only thing that is real for you is that you exist !! Nothing else is real. You do not know if you are 'dead or alive'.

Now you have to take the center out of the illusion, so it will collapse. What is left is awareness !!! And when you return from that journey, you will not care about the concepts reality and/or illusion anymore.

:high5: :high5: :high5: :high5: :)

Johnny

[joeecho]

Yes. I have seen Inception, good flick. It's one of those movie that I knew would be worth seeing again. Have not got back to it since it first came out tho.

Any particular thing from the movie that made you think of it?

Just what I think the movie is about: To plant an idea in another persons head.

Edit: without the other person know anything about it !! (are aware of it)

Johnny

Interesting indeed! There is energy perceived in this subject matter by me (lacking a better way to explain it).

As I read your post Johnny, I am thinking of the concept of MEME. Does that connect with what your getting at as well?

A book I read years ago call Virus of the Mind by Richard Brodie regarding meme.

It is conceivable that even our idea of the mind itself is a type of meme.

[joeecho]

So do you have to remove what really isn't there to begin with?



No, you do not have to do it, it is your choice, if you want it in your reality or not !!

Johnny

What you said made me think of lucid dreams.

I do not see reality as being variable. It would make more sense to me, personally, if what you said was... No, you do not have to do it, it's your choice, if you want it in you illusion or not !!

Hey! If you take the center out of the word 'reality', it collapse into an illusion. :high5:

Now you are very very close :) I like to use concept instead of word. So when you make the concept 'reality' to collapse, the only thing that is real for you is that you exist !! Nothing else is real. You do not know if you are 'dead or alive'.

Now you have to take the center out of the illusion, so it will collapse. What is left is awareness !!! And when you return from that journey, you will not care about the concepts reality and/or illusion anymore.

:high5: :high5: :high5: :high5: :)

Johnny

Thank you, I think I follow...

....but riddle me this Batman (j/k).... No seriously, how would this project into experience in daily life? Routine life where you get up in the morning and do the stuff a person does before work then commutes to work and does their job then heads home and does the stuff they do before bed only to do those things again the next day. I mean, does this understanding/ awareness have the power to change the experience of the mundane into something wildly interesting? Have you used your awareness in this way? (I hope I am explaining this right)

RE: "You do not know if you are 'dead or alive'."

Concepts again, right? Like words in a book/ story.... The character is ALIVE in the book and as you read it he/ she dies in a horrible car accident (DEAD). But you can resurrect the character by turning back whatever number of pages and the character is ALIVE again. Of course you could also re-write the authors story (creative license) so that the character avoids the car accident altogether.

Am I going off the rails in what your communication in this thread is about, Johnny?

(My mind goes off flying across the universe sometimes....:plane: )

[Johnny]

Yes. I have seen Inception, good flick. It's one of those movie that I knew would be worth seeing again. Have not got back to it since it first came out tho.

Any particular thing from the movie that made you think of it?

Just what I think the movie is about: To plant an idea in another persons head.

Edit: without the other person know anything about it !! (are aware of it)

Johnny

Interesting indeed! There is energy perceived in this subject matter by me (lacking a better way to explain it).

As I read your post Johnny, I am thinking of the concept of MEME. Does that connect with what your getting at as well?

A book I read years ago call Virus of the Mind by Richard Brodie regarding meme.

It is conceivable that even our idea of the mind itself is a type of meme.

I had to google MEME :) never heard about that concept before, and found out it is the Greek word for memory, but also that there is little disagreement among researchers.

I regard the mind as a kind of tool as an interpreter of memory, consciousness, subconsciousness, senses, emotions, feelings, perceptions, measurements and images (did I forget something ?? ) :)


It is conceivable that even our idea of the mind itself is a type of meme.

Do you mean: Mind is a myth ??? :) It is a billion industry :) But I will not total disagree if you said that, it is rather flexible, do you know it speak and understand danish ?? :) but on the other hand it also works like a computer, with a poor firewall and antivirus program :) but we need the mind, I would not be able to find my bed without the mind, and without the mind i would not care who's bed I went into :)

Time is 3:55 am here now, goodnight :)

Johnny

[Johnny]

Thank you, I think I follow...

....but riddle me this Batman (j/k).... No seriously, how would this project into experience in daily life? Routine life where you get up in the morning and do the stuff a person does before work then commutes to work and does their job then heads home and does the stuff they do before bed only to do those things again the next day. I mean, does this understanding/ awareness have the power to change the experience of the mundane into something wildly interesting? Have you used your awareness in this way? (I hope I am explaining this right)


'Looking' from the outside, there would not be any special difference, but 'seeing' it from the outside, I guess there will be a big difference.

I have a saying: "Never ever compare yourself with anything and/or anybody" because if you do that, the 'result' will never be you !


RE: "You do not know if you are 'dead or alive'."

It should be understood as: ' when you are in that situation :)


Concepts again, right? Like words in a book/ story.... The character is ALIVE in the book and as you read it he/ she dies in a horrible car accident (DEAD). But you can resurrect the character by turning back whatever number of pages and the character is ALIVE again. Of course you could also re-write the authors story (creative license) so that the character avoids the car accident altogether.


HMM yes, seems like it could be what is called another reality/timeline :)


Am I going off the rails in what your communication in this thread is about, Johnny?

It is your thread, YOU decide :)


(My mind goes off flying across the universe sometimes....:plane: )

That is absolutely OK, with exercise begin :)

Johnny

[joeecho]

"Never ever compare yourself with anything and/or anybody" because if you do that, the 'result' will never be you.

I like this saying!

When reflecting on this I realize I do a lot of comparing.

It's like the elephant in the room.

I may see the elephant in the room and allude to it's presence to others, if their reaction to it is rejection or indifference then I begin to question my own perception of the situation and question my sanity. However, what keep me from throwing out the baby with the bath water is that I remember a time when people would speak of spiritual things and it made no sense to me and I wondered if they were just crazy.

I suppose, at some point, I have to trust what I see instead of compare it to what others see from their perspective. If I choose to adopt what they see then as your saying goes, it would not be me seeing it.

[Finefeather]

Not taking individual mind control into consideration, the greatest and most significant mind control comes in the form of the collective thinking of the human mind.
Our subtle bodies...etheric, emotional and mental...are bombarded continually with telepathic ideas which have been created and shaped by 1000s of years of human existence.
We are locked into the matrix of our self created world of likes and dislikes, pains and fears, strange beliefs, illusions and fictions...do's and don'ts.

As a result anyone living out of the norm becomes an enemy of the system, which has been shaped and used by those who see it as an easy way to manipulate and to control.

So whilst we all live in deluded harmony in our self created world, we can see no other reality...change becomes a negative thing...all that new stuff to learn.

This reality we have created on this planet can only be undone or changed by the very people who created it...you and I and the rest of us...

Time to emerge from our hypnotic slumber...

Take care
Ray

[bogeyman]

We are all products of our environment mentally and physically. Psychological tricks are play on us all the time, we adjust and adapt to our surroundings. Whether that is defined as mind control well it could be, some times self inflicted.

[joeecho]

Thanks bogyman and FineFeather!

From what I could tell, on the subject of mind control, I seemed to find mostly stuff connected to governments whether ones own country or another. I sensed there was more to it then that and wanted to explore the subject in the broadest sense. The government mind control is enlightening but broad mind control has been even more so. I am always seeking the purest unfiltered awareness possible regardless of how uncomfortable the initial experience is to me. I REALLY appreciate the fine people of this forum for taking the time to share with me their experiences on this journey we are all on.

It's a form like this that allows us to connect between the space that is the general populous (I do not mean to suggest that they are less then but just at a different place in the journey...or at least that is how I view it).

I will talk to family, friends, coworkers and the like but I do not get the level of receptive communication like I have seen and experienced here. Visually it's like stars communicating across a vast void of space all the time wishing and expecting other stars to awaken from their slumber one star at a time.

Sincerely,

One of those awakening stars....

[Johnny]

Not taking individual mind control into consideration, the greatest and most significant mind control comes in the form of the collective thinking of the human mind.
Our subtle bodies...etheric, emotional and mental...are bombarded continually with telepathic ideas which have been created and shaped by 1000s of years of human existence.
We are locked into the matrix of our self created world of likes and dislikes, pains and fears, strange beliefs, illusions and fictions...do's and don'ts.

As a result anyone living out of the norm becomes an enemy of the system, which has been shaped and used by those who see it as an easy way to manipulate and to control.

So whilst we all live in deluded harmony in our self created world, we can see no other reality...change becomes a negative thing...all that new stuff to learn.

This reality we have created on this planet can only be undone or changed by the very people who created it...you and I and the rest of us...

Time to emerge from our hypnotic slumber...

Take care
Ray

Thank you Ray, very well said :)

Johnny

[Johnny]

We are all products of our environment mentally and physically. Psychological tricks are play on us all the time, we adjust and adapt to our surroundings. Whether that is defined as mind control well it could be, some times self inflicted.

I remember, in what you probably call the high-school. a teacher said nearly your words, something like:


You are all products of your environment mentally and physically. you all adjust and adapt to your surroundings.

The class was amazed and dumbfounded. The teacher was not looking to discuss, but just repeated it. I think many of us has been told so or something similar.

But bogeyman, try to put it upside down, you is the environment and surrounding for the rest of the cosmos, so you has an impact on it all.

What do you say to that ?? :) Maybe a bit over rated, but on the other hand !!! :)

Johnny

[Johnny]

I suppose, at some point, I have to trust what I see instead of compare it to what others see from their perspective. If I choose to adopt what they see then as your saying goes, it would not be me seeing it.

Here is another saying (not mine): "If you always walk in another persons food print, you will never be able to overtake".

Now, it is not a question about to overtake neither making your own food print, but a question about being able to see clear.

This road can be rather tough, and I can predict how tough it will be for you, it will be exactly how tough you (your mind) are yourself, no more no less !!!

And if you think you are not a tough fellow, wait and see :)

Johnny

[Johnny]

I've been a little busy the last few days , but I remember after I closed my computer after post number 31 , I should have written something about dualism because maybe reality/illusion can be a breeding ground for the root of dualism . So here's a little twist.

Let's use the concept of self-esteem and let's assume we meet someone, who has never heard of the concept of self-esteem. We ask the person how his or her self-esteem is . The person will obviously not be able to tell us that, but will probably ask us what we mean by self-esteem. We will then provide a description of the concept , with the difference of having self-esteem and have no self-esteem.

Now the concept so to speak, has been born in his/her consciousness/mind.

If the person 'buy' our definition of self-esteem, so it may be a lifelong struggle between self-esteem and lack of self-esteem. In a sense, one can say that the concept of self-worth is 'playing' with us.

So let ourselves 'play' with the concept, let's imagine we have never heard of it and let's delete it from our 'dictionary'.

Do we cheat by doing that? Absolutely not, but we have been cheated by it.

We can of course still use/understand the word, but will be emotionally detached from it, and with emotionally I mean, we have no feeling patterns built up, but we still have empathy about it.

We had a life before the concept was defined for us and we took it to us as our own.

Do we need self-esteem? Certainly not, and certainly not when we can see how it 'play' with us.

And it was only ONE concept with built-dualism as 'playing' with us.

Johnny :)

[joeecho]

I suppose, at some point, I have to trust what I see instead of compare it to what others see from their perspective. If I choose to adopt what they see then as your saying goes, it would not be me seeing it.



This road can be rather tough, and I can predict how tough it will be for you, it will be exactly how tough you (your mind) are yourself, no more no less !!!

Johnny

So are we the ones making the road rough or paved as we see fit?

If that is it, it might be time for me to bring out the steamroller! Autobahn here I come! :)

If we are to get somewhere why not already be there?

[Johnny]

So are we the ones making the road rough or paved as we see fit?



I'm sorry I missed your questions.

Yes, who else is there :)


If that is it, it might be time for me to bring out the steamroller! Autobahn here I come! :)

I will take the low road :)



If we are to get somewhere why not already be there?

You can call it distractions, addictions or something else, you tell me, or maybe you have a plan ? :)

Give it a thought, why many people would like to have/give explanations for themselves. (beside it could be said it is a kind of addiction: 'always be prepared')

Johnny :)

[joeecho]

Give it a thought, why many people would like to have/give explanations for themselves. (beside it could be said it is a kind of addiction: 'always be prepared')

Johnny :)

The love of the chase, aye?

[Johnny]

Give it a thought, why many people would like to have/give explanations for themselves. (beside it could be said it is a kind of addiction: 'always be prepared')

Johnny :)

The love of the chase, aye?

It could well be said so :) but also:

Please go slowly with the next.

Do you remember something like: "Young man, I sure hope you have a good explanation?"

What did it tell you in the moment ?

Where in the body did you notice something ?

At what mental and emotional level has it kept you / constantly pulled you back to since ?

What have you done with all your explanations through time ? Do you think the hole will ever be filled ?

And then of course your disappointment later, when you were met with: "I do not wanna hear all your stupid excuses." But the damage has been done !

I think it has happened to most of us.

The short version of the above is : If we have a good explanation , we are on safe ground . The result is we are constantly in or pulled back to survival level, as opposed to be in living level. That is a struggle

Please look at the title of your thread. :) Yes there are many kinds of mind/emotional control !

If you remember who did it to you first , then do not blame on him/her , exactly the same is certainly also been made against him/her.

Have a nice day :)

Johnny