Outside the Illusion

[bogeyman]

Many of us here and elsewhere have awakened and some are in the process of awakening, which rises us above the illusion of what the world deems our reality.
This reality is really an illusion brought about by conditioning, which seemly is normal to many, since they have been absorbed into the matrix of the system of illusion that surrounds us.

Yet in the world breakthroughs have occurred. People are discovering the nature of who we really are, and it goes way beyond the conditioning that we are just physical creatures living in an isolated world. Nothing could be further from the truth.
Mankind has always been connected to the spiritual levels, for without it we would not exist. Yet the awareness of the human condition is at present, in various stages, and trying to comprehend the various phenomena which does not fit in with the illusion of conditioning.

These phenomena’s are outside the illusion framework which has been created for us, and by ourselves. They are here to break through the illusion and are awakening something that has laid dormant and in others a path to other levels of consciousness of realities which exist in this world and those beyond.

[Guish]

First, man's biggest illusion is probably that happiness can be found in material things which are all perishable. Hence, mankind is never happy. Second, If you observe, you'll see that people are upset because of their own thoughts and desires. Thoughts always fight in people's minds causing anxiety and desires are infinite which makes satisfaction quasi impossible. It's a really interesting topic.

[Shezbeth]

I really like what has begun in this thread!


First, man's biggest illusion is probably that happiness can be found in material things which are all perishable. Hence, mankind is never happy. Second, If you observe, you'll see that people are upset because of their own thoughts and desires. Thoughts always fight in people's minds causing anxiety and desires are infinite which makes satisfaction quasi impossible. It's a really interesting topic.

This is consistent with my experience; one either recognizes the limitations of materialism or one does not.

Of those who do not recognize, there seem to be those who simply possess the mentality, and those who actively maintain it. Those who maintain can rarely and/or not be reasoned with nor assisted in discarding a materialistic disposition. Ones who simply possess such a mindset are generally more affable and receptive to the ideas of non-materialistic self-esteem.

I will simplify this referrendum as "Not-haves", "Haves", and "Needs" (Ie. those who do not have the mentality, those who do, and those who maintain).

What is curious to me is the degree of almost incendiary contempt that is and can be expressed by Needs, toward Not-haves and in some cases Haves, as it relates to their demeanor in almost every expression of human interaction. It is not enough to disagree or disregard the choices of the Not-haves or the Haves, but there is a distinct and often overtly observable opposition that is of an actively conflicting nature. Simply, its not enough to disagree; in the minds of Needs the Not-haves tend to be 'flagrantly wrong and righteously opposed'.

I suggest that there may be a correlation between materialism and both fear and self-esteem (or lack of).

In some cases, I have found Needs to actively pursue - and rationalize - methods of adversarial expression toward Not-haves, simply for disagreeing (literally or dispositionally) to their perceived 'correct' disposition.

[Freed Fox]

It's more complex than it seems, I think. The 'devil's advocate' position here would be to suggest that, conversely to the 'Needs', the 'Not-haves' should not apply the attitude that the opposite polarity is 'flagrantly wrong and righteously opposed'. On one hand, we do live in a material realm of existence; objects have consistent properties and reactions to various actions/stimuli. They cannot be altered with thoughts alone (or at least, not to such a dramatic extent as to be undeniable), only by physical or chemical processes. On the other hand, physics is finding that there is no such thing as matter as such (that is, as we have accepted in the past).

I am on the fence regarding the extent and degree to which our reality here is illusory. I want to believe we have greater powers to 'create our reality' beyond simple mental gymnastics such as seeing things from a different perspective. Until someone grows themselves a pair of functional angel wings, however, I'm going to be more skeptical than not toward such lofty premises. Pics or it didn't happen. :p

Having strong desires which are not possible to be achieved in one's current lifetime puts one in a peculiar position. I still manage to wear a smile, to make others laugh, and to try to do more good than harm in my everyday interactions. At the same time, I am not truly happy and I know I will not be in this lifetime. Yes, these desires can be seen to be of a materialistic nature, but they are not excessive. They do not include being rich, being famous, being in a position of power, or having any exceptional abilities. They are not desires which would cause harm to anyone, or oppress them, or exploit them. This being the case, I do not believe there is anything wrong with the desires I have. Some might argue that they are keeping me from being happy, but happiness - as beauty - is in the eye of the beholder. I've had plenty of time to ruminate on it. I know that if I had them, I would not simply find other unattainable desires to take their place. I firmly believe I could be happy with my modest wishes fulfilled.



I suggest that there may be a correlation between materialism and both fear and self-esteem (or lack of).


Are you suggesting a positive correlation in both cases?

For me, self-esteem is somewhat elusive, yet markedly more stable than it was for me in the past (for the most part it was, ironically, much lower before I discovered what my true desires were; as alluded to above, unattainable for the duration of my current incarnation). I'm making some real strides over fear though. I'm not afraid of death... or public speaking. ;)

[Shezbeth]

I'm not sure exactly what you mean, so I'll reiterate.

I don't mean to suggest that all materialists are fearful or lack self esteem or that fear/lack of self esteem inevitably results in materialism, but I am confident that a reasonable case could made that a there may be a correlation between materialism and fear/lack of self esteem.