Skills and Making money after the Collapse.

[Luke]

Skills and Making money after the Collapse, from SURVIVING IN ARGENTINA blog by FerFAL.
(http://ferfal.blogspot.com/2010/10/skills-and-making-money-after-collapse.html)


Now, about your question. Bicycle repair, sewing, etc, are these skills useful after a collapse? Well of course they are, but the question you want to ask yourself instead, do I want to repair bicycles or sew clothes for a living after a collapse, and the answer to that is certainly no. Why? Because there’s a lot of people already doing that, because its just not well paid. Even if you think that right now people are lazy and pretty much useless, it doesn’t mean that that situation will go on afterwards. As things get worse, it wont be just you thinking about opening a small grocery or repairing bikes and mending clothes. Competition and poverty will bring the prices down and you’ll find yourself working a lot for relatively little income. I’m not saying don’t do it, I’m just saying that its going to be very competitive and even if you are good you wont be making much money out of it.
That is the question. When SHTF (it's not IF anymore), there would be no mad max. Rather we will be dealing with millions of people in need to rebuild anything resembling working society. Seen that after (controlled) collapse of Soviet block, and what FerFAL writes makes lots of sense to me.

One problem undressed is that in such situation, police and former special services turn into mafia ASAP. Already they are prominent in drug trafficking. Especially in Europe, they are the ones with guns and organization. After Soviet fall, they were the ones that made millions, and most of current top wealthy are former special services contacts. they also have politicians in their grasp. Can't overlook that, it's damn major problem.
(PS. And mind: political structures are last to fall, the system fights to last second, it morphs till people think change occured, and they accept "new" leaders, that serve same forces last regime served)
(PS2. Money is loose term there: a medium that is most widely recognizable as having value. Might be gold, might be glass balls, who knows)

[Beth]

Hey Luke, I did post about this about a month ago regarding this. I'm not sure how political or monies will all shake out, but I do believe those in the skilled trade will become of higher value than those that are looked highly upon now (ie. lawyers, bankers, etc). It's the skilled trades that will help rebuild society. I think that in itself could be the interesting paradigm shift.

[Operator]

Those with the skills to "make" money are done ...

Money has no real value at ... it only corrupts society, that's the only value I see in it.

On this, I am with you Beth ... people with craftsmen skills are the ones to shape the future.
There is a great movie: My Name Is Khan (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1188996/) trailer here (http://www.imdb.com/video/imdb/vi2049377305/)

See how a simplistic guy turns the flow of events by just being himself.
And didn't we see the same in Forrest Gump (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0109830/)

The common theme here is that they are not distracted by money and stay on their course ... 'success' is almost automatically the result.

[Luke]

Beth and Operator, you re both right, to a extent.
What passes currently as money is worthless, but system of exchange needs money-medium, else it will not work. What will be used is open to discussion though.

People with useful skills will be obviously in better positions, just as article above describes. Point is though: skilled persons are not enough. For economy to function you need enterpreteurs: people of BOTH vision and skill. They are now nearly extinct breed, but if you want to build industry, even on local scale, you need them. I mean people that seeing gold rush supply shovels, that can see beyond immediate and obvious, and rightfully cash-in on that, by creating better services for other people, and better work conditions for non-enterpretouring craftsmen. Forrest is actually great example of such man, even if he kinda not planned it.

Lawyers, CEO's and their ilk are creatures too specialized to functioning in current system to survive without it.

[Operator]

What passes currently as money is worthless, but system of exchange needs money-medium, else it will not work.

For economy to function you need enterpreteurs: people of BOTH vision and skill.


That's the point Luke ... who said we need an 'economy' ?
The whole economy thing is an old paradigm we didn't need in the first place ...

If we are gonna replace it with something similar we're back at 'start'.
It isn't all that difficult to prove it doesn't work ... Monopoly is a game simply because there can be a winner.

If it would endlessly work it would be boring and a waste of time ... and that's actually what happened the past centuries ...
we've wasted important time and our habitat trying to make it work endlessly.

[Beth]

Could be a great time to implement the time banks.

[Operator]

Could be a great time to implement the time banks.

Every form of "I owe you" enslaves ... we should be doing things out of love, compassion, empathy ... give without expecting anything back.
If we get this done you don't have to expect anything back ... there will be others supporting YOUR needs.

[xbusymom]

Every form of "I owe you" enslaves ... we should be doing things out of love, compassion, empathy ... give without expecting anything back.
If we get this done you don't have to expect anything back ... there will be others supporting YOUR needs.

I think Beth is right... the timebanks can be a stepping stone for the paradigm change...

all things are neutral; it is the people who assign a certain definition (good vs bad) and if we use the timebanks as a transitional method to move into the "everything is provided FREE/no money" then everyone would eventually be expected to pitch in their efforts according to their 'gifts and talents' and available time- we all only have 24 hours each day anyway, lets work from the equality of time given to the community instead of being "paid" for your time/results.

the idea is to get people to unthink "MONEY" and start thinking "CARING/HELPING"

[Operator]

the idea is to get people to unthink "MONEY" and start thinking "CARING/HELPING"

Ok, very good ... the thing I am afraid of is that they will offer stepping stones which will head us the wrong way again.

I think the ultimate goal is clear ... we all learned to walk in little baby steps but time is running out so we better start yesterday :p

[Luke]

That's the point Luke ... who said we need an 'economy' ?
The whole economy thing is an old paradigm we didn't need in the first place ...
Guess we have different definitions of economy then :)
For me economy is system that allows for complex human society to emerge, via allowing effective use of individual human energy/potential, allowing fore even more possibilities to manifest.
In economy such defined , there are no winners, as any progress one is making, transfers to progress of others. Service to self via service to others on could say.

Monopoly is only that, a game. It does not build anything lasting. Worse, if we mix monopoly and real economy, system supporting your very life is endangered.

Also guess money means quite different thing to us here. What is timebanking if not attempt to create energy medium ? time/skills are energy after all. Caring/helping is energy too. Money is energy medium.
Money is not paper painted green or any other colour.

[xbusymom]

Guess we have different definitions of economy then :)
For me economy is system that allows for complex human society to emerge, via allowing effective use of individual human energy/potential, allowing fore even more possibilities to manifest.
In economy such defined , there are no winners, as any progress one is making, transfers to progress of others. Service to self via service to others on could say.

Monopoly is only that, a game. It does not build anything lasting. Worse, if we mix monopoly and real economy, system supporting your very life is endangered.

Also guess money means quite different thing to us here. What is timebanking if not attempt to create energy medium ? time/skills are energy after all. Caring/helping is energy too. Money is energy medium.
Money is not paper painted green or any other colour.

I think you have a point there...

If using the Old Paradigm labels for circumstances/ issues is confusing, then just create your own label and definition ; spread the word about the new "lingo" and go from there... maybe that is exactly what we need - a new language for a new paradigm

how about this ( I love to play with acronyms) : ecological cooperative opportunities for interactive social maintenance system (ECO-ISMS)

[Operator]

spread the word about the new "lingo" and go from there...

how about this ( I love to play with acronyms) : ecological ....

Yes, good idea !
But maybe too close to ego logical ... :laugh:

[xbusymom]

Yes, good idea !
But maybe too close to ego logical ... :laugh:

HAHA very true, but that was just a quick think off the top of my head... I am sure I could come up with something better - given time...

I still like the new mottos on the timebank money I developed ;

the new TACS (tax) system here: http://www.yoglin.com/TACS.html

[sjkted]

Beth and Operator, you re both right, to a extent.
What passes currently as money is worthless, but system of exchange needs money-medium, else it will not work. What will be used is open to discussion though.

People with useful skills will be obviously in better positions, just as article above describes. Point is though: skilled persons are not enough. For economy to function you need enterpreteurs: people of BOTH vision and skill. They are now nearly extinct breed, but if you want to build industry, even on local scale, you need them. I mean people that seeing gold rush supply shovels, that can see beyond immediate and obvious, and rightfully cash-in on that, by creating better services for other people, and better work conditions for non-enterpretouring craftsmen. Forrest is actually great example of such man, even if he kinda not planned it.

Lawyers, CEO's and their ilk are creatures too specialized to functioning in current system to survive without it.

I honestly think most people will be surprised how simple an "economy" can be post-collapse. We need to stop thinking in terms of socialism, capitalism, etc. For one, most people don't understand what these really mean and it's impossible to disconnect an economic system from it's political system. For example, most people will say that socialism is evil, but Native American Indians were all more or less socialist, and many of them were quite successful considering that they were able to survive and thrive and have happy lives.

When the US was founded, one of the concepts was term limits for corporations. The idea was that in order for a corporation to be formed it needed to have a "public good" it was focused on and only then it could only operate for 15 years. The idea being that the owners of the corporation could develop a product, make good money on it, but then the product/methods would have to be released to the public and the corporation dissolved.

Since we no longer have this system and corporations today have more rights than individuals, most people do not understand how much money we spend in royalties or tributes. In many cases, you have a few corporations that have a "special" process or method or distributor or what not (the secret sauce) that provides the key to their product. And, if this were not an exclusive right, the cost of the product would plummet substantially. When you add in taxes and government bureaucracy, we spend a lot of our energy making money to just pay off overhead that we don't need.

One example would be open source software. When TSHTF, I predict that practically everyone will be using open source software. Many software programs will be developed as web-based and offered for free. In addition, there are many open source hardware projects which function almost as a built-it-yourself furniture, where you just buy the spare parts, put them together, and the community supports you if you have problems.

In addition, it really won't be that difficult to replace communications infrastructure. We could even rebuild the internet by linking wireless routers together in repeater mode and have entire communities set up with their own network infrastructure that could connect to other communities, etc.

My point is that the collapse this time is very different than it was for other times because we won't have a superpower trying to take over or control us and because the technology has made obsolete many "jobs" that were prevalent in the past.

--sjkted

[Operator]

In addition, it really won't be that difficult to replace communications infrastructure. We could even rebuild the internet by linking wireless routers together in repeater mode and have entire communities set up with their own network infrastructure that could connect to other communities, etc.


Yes, provided that electronics keep working ... we've come to a point where we've put a zillion transistors in a chip ... no chance of repairing that.
But indeed it will be interesting times where we have to challenge our creativity again. I'm sure we'll find it again !

[steve_a]

Hi Luke,

I think now's the time to learn an ability. Myself I'm going to learn how to weld. I will be buying an electric welder in the next couple of weeks and do a couple of months of courses to learn how to arc weld. Why? Well beleive it or not there is already a shortage of welders! But not only this. I'm planning a project and part of this project will involve welding parts of a car. Also I know that on my travels welders will be needed more in the future as people will buy less new cars and there will be a tendancy to repair older cars (like in Cuba!) - already there is a waiting list to get your car welded, it's never done right away.

Best regards,

Steve

[Luke]

(...)I think now's the time to learn an ability. Myself I'm going to learn how to weld. (...)
Blacksmithing here. Working on building my own forge. I mainly do this as hobby- kinda crazy about antique weapons and armour, but that might be useful skill. Carpentry too. So I can only sympathize :) :thumb:

Still, even working on that I figure out ways to effectively use group of people, not only working alone. Same goes for things like farming - small gardens are great, but there are people who think on scale of eco-friendly farms (remember- farming is no.1 polluter!).

In any case : you have small, self-sustainable systems that work together to build bigger systems. Working diligently , you can parallel current system. Only problem is you need to calculate for extortionists and other raiders. This is something I have yet not figured out (short of calling for Jedi :P )



In addition, it really won't be that difficult to replace communications infrastructure. We could even rebuild the internet by linking wireless routers together in repeater mode and have entire communities set up with their own network infrastructure that could connect to other communities, etc. Yes, provided that electronics keep working ... we've come to a point where we've put a zillion transistors in a chip ... no chance of repairing that.
But indeed it will be interesting times where we have to challenge our creativity again. I'm sure we'll find it again !
While my feelings are along lines of Operator, the communication is essential though. Point is current technology is hijacked, and it's purposefully build in a way that prevent users from repairing/adjusting/tinkering. Autos, AGD too. Software too, but here not only so called "Intellectual Property" and ridiculous patents are problem, but the very way we program- too much typing not enough designing, but that is rant for another thread. I can only add my thoughts to the "we need to figure out how to do it another way" pool
(of course I know best way to accomplish that- bio-electronics and "building" living mechanisms/electronics, that can be reprogrammed given need- no waste, no old models- you can grow what you need- for now it's ScienceFiction, but who knows what will happen tomorrow; do not expect that from corporations or current science establishment though)

[sjkted]

Yes, provided that electronics keep working ... we've come to a point where we've put a zillion transistors in a chip ... no chance of repairing that.
But indeed it will be interesting times where we have to challenge our creativity again. I'm sure we'll find it again !

We may end up going back to simpler tech as well. It's nice to have fancy things, but I bought some antique vacuum tube radios for the collapse that work quite well and are also a novelty, and also are EMP-proof. There's no reason why we can't have electronics that can be repaired, even if that means they aren't as small or convenient.

--sjkted

¤=[Post Update]=¤


Hi Luke,

I think now's the time to learn an ability. Myself I'm going to learn how to weld. I will be buying an electric welder in the next couple of weeks and do a couple of months of courses to learn how to arc weld. Why? Well beleive it or not there is already a shortage of welders! But not only this. I'm planning a project and part of this project will involve welding parts of a car. Also I know that on my travels welders will be needed more in the future as people will buy less new cars and there will be a tendancy to repair older cars (like in Cuba!) - already there is a waiting list to get your car welded, it's never done right away.

Best regards,

Steve

Welding is on my list as well, and also engine and transmission rebuilding. The other question is what our fuel source will be which will largely determine to what extent normal people are driving. I also have one of my cars converted to run on Waste Vegetable Oil, and am looking to make a small career of this post-collapse as there will still be vegetable oil and it makes a good fuel source.

--sjkted

[Beth]

We may end up going back to simpler tech as well. It's nice to have fancy things, but I bought some antique vacuum tube radios for the collapse that work quite well and are also a novelty, and also are EMP-proof. There's no reason why we can't have electronics that can be repaired, even if that means they aren't as small or convenient.


I totally agree with that, and it might be fun too!

[bluestflame]

oxy acetelene, bronze welding (for copper pipe and plumbing , refrigeratin)
arc, mig(GMAW or gas metalic arc welding) even carbon rod fusion welding

lot of portable power generators have attatchments for using as a portable welder , is handy to be familiar with a few different techniques and methods depending on tools and materials available

¤=[Post Update]=¤

if you are looking for a good old solid untransitorised welder go visit a farmer , they like to hold onto old machinery even when they upgrade to new stuff

[Operator]

We may end up going back to simpler tech as well. It's nice to have fancy things, but I bought some antique vacuum tube radios for the collapse that work quite well and are also a novelty, and also are EMP-proof. There's no reason why we can't have electronics that can be repaired, even if that means they aren't as small or convenient.


Yes ... Dr. John Waterman recommended this:

http://w4ti.net/ft857.jpg

It's very nice and normally it would be very convenient with all bands in it ... it can be powered from batteries
But as you would expect ... full of solid state electronics ... forget about repairs.

I'll stick to my good old:

http://www.webx.dk/oz2cpu/radios/ft-277a.jpg

Solid state too (individual parts however), final stage amplifier is with tubes. This one has better repair options.
But it is not so easily powered by batteries.

So KISS (Keep It Stupid Simple) :thumb:

[sjkted]

On my last post, I spoke about potential fuel sources. Aside from biodiesel/vegetable oil, I see this as a real possibility. With this system, no matter where you are, you'll never run out of fuel. During WWII, I've heard estimates of 1 million vehicles were modified to run on biomass. See the below video.

3XPH3fV1Fd4

--sjkted

[xbusymom]

so what would your list of needed KISS skills be?

[sjkted]

so what would your list of needed KISS skills be?

Knowing how to repair literally everything you own and depend on.

--sjkted

[Operator]

Knowing how to repair literally everything you own and depend on.

--sjkted

Yes, I agree. That's what I aimed at in post #3 ...
In the movie "My name is Khan" he travels and pays for his expenses simply by holding up a sign: "Repairs Almost Everything".
I am a kind of tinker myself and am often teased by my peers with the text on that sign.

I am afraid it is an a-specific answer but sjkted said it well. Maybe you should generate a list of things you depend on.

In another post I suggested to turn of the main power switch and lock the main water tap for a day and see how to deal with it.
It's a harsh but quick way to learn.

Not only do you need repair skills but what about hygiene ... what to do without toilet paper, soap etc.
You need to be able to create somehow your own ...

[Luke]

Great input guys and galls :)

That's why when people ask what to invest into , I do not say "gold ans silver", as so many alternatives do.
I say first skill and knowledge!
I do not intent to say, make my own clothes, but I know how to make them, and I can pass that knowledge to someone who will make it his focus. Same goes with anything else, you learn not only for yourself, you also learn so you can pass those skills, to organize people and communities too!

To many survivalist focus on "lone warrior" scenario, while in reality you would always be dealing with lots of people. Quick math from past: in hunter-gatherer mode, earth can support population of about 15-20 million alpha-predators. When we introduce basic bio-farming (middle age level of technology) - this capacity goes up to 500 million (yes, there is no coincidence with that number).

Current nearly 7 billion figure is made possible by intensive farming, but this is topsoil-limited, and there is giant crisis lingering there- the amount of energy taken out of biosphere is greater than regenerative rate. That does not mean "malthusian trap" though- only that instead of pillaging ecosphere we should extend it's natural output. IMO, that is giant factor in things to come, but neophobiac elite is unable to see it. They see a wall here, while we should see opportunity. They want to scale back to their beloved feudalism, we should allow ourselves to take other way- instead of attempt controlling Nature - merge with it and cooperate (ok, I'm again sounding sciencefictionish, but hope you get my drift)

[Operator]

Wise words Luke ...


To many survivalist focus on "lone warrior" scenario, while in reality you would always be dealing with lots of people.

Yeah, many people can't even function in solitude ... that's only feasible for a few.
But I think life may go back to a kind of tribe culture ... share with like minded but keep an eye on diversity in skills.

[Anchor]

Let each man's actions be measured by their brothers need.

Basically, adopt a strictly service to others disposition and then the system becomes self regulating. Everyone gets looked after and everything is shared.

Ultimately the only people who will survive over the coming changes will be of this kind - the others will fall at the hand of insurmountable catalyst.

That which is shared - is skills, food, love, etc

[bluestflame]

can do stuff with an old lawnmower engine and a 12v alternater out of a car with the addition of a pulley

[steve_a]

Hi Operator,

I'm still waiting for my CB radio to arrive from the US. The ariel and SWR meter have been received, it's just the radio which is still open.

I reckon if everything goes south, we'll only need to keep in touch with people around us (within 10 miles) as people on the other side of the world will not really be that important. It's a case of "One small blip for man, one giant leap backwards for mankind".

Best regards,

Steve

[Operator]

Hi Operator,

I'm still waiting for my CB radio to arrive from the US. The ariel and SWR meter have been received, it's just the radio which is still open.

I reckon if everything goes south, we'll only need to keep in touch with people around us (within 10 miles) as people on the other side of the world will not really be that important. It's a case of "One small blip for man, one giant leap backwards for mankind".

Best regards,

Steve

Hi Steve,

You maybe right .... 2 small hand held portables are very cheap in the USA ... it can replace e.g. cell phone traffic.
With HAM equipment 2m (VHF) and 70cm (UHF) bands can be used for local traffic ... The shortwave (HF) equipment
can be used with it's typical bands for intermediate and long ranges. But that is under normal circumstances !
Who knows how everything will change if our climate/atmosphere alters.

But I guess you left family behind in Europe like I did ... so the other side of the world is still relevant too.
My brother is a HAM operator too ... so for me the chances are a bit higher that I will actually use it one day.

Since the internet we've been spoiled ... communication is currently replaced by Skype of course.

B.t.w. CB is usually on 11m/27 Mhz (there are new types on UHF). I had success with 10 m/29 Mhz from
Europe contacting the USA and Japan once with only 4 Watts and FM modulation.

PM me if you want to share the details of your equipment (band/modulation type etc.) and the callsign
you plan to use (or do you get one assigned in Brazil). Same applies for others too of course.
We've had this session 2 years before ... it was too early. I feel the time now becomes more and more
critical ...

73, Op.

[Ki's]

I would think basic needs would be a first priority...food and water of course, but more with a view towards being self sufficient rather than all storage. I'm of a mind that the 'pillaging' thing is going to be pretty short and limited when you consider how many unprepared people will be raiding empty stores for foods and batteries. We're returning to our home town (still called a village) and to a piece of land with it's own well and a house with a wood stove.
At the present time there are small companies that provide reasonably priced solar panels and homestead sized wind generators. I would think those would not only be a good investment for the immediate future but also to those who might want to learn how to build/install/maintain. We have solar flashlights and I believe (though I have not yet acquired) that there are solar powered or hand crank short wave radio sets?
I am also considering that an immediate productive garden may not be possible, and will take some time to produce anyways...and have stockpiled a largish assortment of seeds for sprouting. 3 - 5 days gives you fresh greens that are nutrient rich.
Also...(sorry, can't remember his name) but the Japanese guy who came up with the method of taking trash plastic and converting it back to petroleum products...he was basically using a still. So another option and/or future job skill. Lord knows there is enough trash plastic around.
I would certainly encourage everyone to get to your nearest Red Cross and take a CPR and basic first aid course...(and here's optimism for you) learn some basic mid-wife skills. (another future job opportunity!)
I've been busy collecting non-power stuff. Hand saw, axes, fishing tackle, gardening tools, saving nails and screws and rope and twine.
Survival and rebuilding civilization will require a great deal of busyness.
We might want to figure out a way to keep TPTB and the bad guys permanently jailed in their D.U.M.B.'s...but on second thought, I have a very strong intuitive sense that the planet will take care of that for us.
Peace, light and love.
Ki

[steve_a]

Hi Operator,

Over here (or down here as you're in the Caribbean) the government keeps PX radio at 27mhz. Also it's all government controlled and they gave me a license number, however I will call myself AB12 (pronounced "aah bay dauzee"). I'm doing this not because I feel that the grid will collapse, but because I think it'll be interesting. By coincidence it also makes up part of a plan that I'm hatching to be executed in around two years or so, hence my post about welding in this thread, which also makes up part.

As the preparations become more evident I will try and keep everyone updated (eventually I will open up a blog about the project - but that's only when things really get moving - I'm still in the information gathering and preparation stages at the moment).

I have a brother and sister back in the UK and I enter in contact whenever I can, or they enter in contact with me whenever there's another death in the family! I went back to the UK to bury my father, mother and brother-in-law, although not necessarily in that order. Not wanting to go too deep, but whenever I went back, the people I know didn't change an iota, living in the same house, doing the same thing, living the same life, all of their lives. That to me was something I just couldn't get to grips with. I hope that when my project gets off the ground it will serve as an inspiration for many to do something 'out of the ordinary' in their lives, to break the mould (not the fungus). It really isn't hard to do. You moved to the Caribbean from Europe, I eventually arrived here in Brazil and beleive it or not, the last 27 years of my life started out as just a two weeks holiday from work!! There really is so much to see and do in this world.

Best regards,

Steve

[Luke]

In order to make real change, we need to cover 5 bases:

1. Energy (as in Food, Electricity, things to burn in stove, things that keep you running in general)
2. Communication (internet for now, but it could be luxury in few months. Question for our radio-operators here about possibility of digital transmission vial long waves? Of course stuff needs to be encoded and on custom soft, but for now, possibilities)
3. Transport (goods, energy and energy medium. Toughest nut to crack, as you need a way to cover large distances without much interference from both current power structures and/or other bands. Also setting up commerce schemes. Hawala too.)
4. Justice (In ideal world, this would not be needed, but it's not it. Disputes must be settled in objective way, fast. More bloody noses mean less wars)
5. Manufacturing (You need to make stuff to ease your living. From toilet bowl to pipes to faucets to stoves. )

Any thoughts on that?

[steve_a]

Hi Luke,

The answers to your questions are around you already. The Romany community have lived 'on the road' for centuries and survived, mostly very well. The secret of living is adaptability. You need to be able to adapt to different people and situations (in my six months experience long ago in the UK).

Also most of these questions have been answered, albeit briefly, in this thread, with some suggestions about how to keep making "money" (money should be taken to mean 'create value') if anything drastic happens in this world over the next few years.

On this forum there are herbalists, people who look for wild berries and vegetables, even one who used to go poaching when he was younger (but that's another story!).

The information is out there. However, my suggestion would be to try and not form an idea of everything that will be needed for the future, as in each of our cases, our future will be vastly different from each other, as our situations will be different. Will it really be necessary for us to communicate to the other side of the world? Probably not. If we need to communicate locally, word of mouth will become the norm. Travellers also carry messages for people.

Will we need to maufacture taps? Across here in Brazil in the more rural areas, there isn't even running water, so a bucket is of more value to fetch water from the lake. In my personal case, I have a small farm and I catch rainwater from the roof. Do I have taps? Yes. Can I live without them? Yes. I just have to look at what the other people do, but only when I need to. Try not to over think things out. Solve one problem at a time and I'm sure everything will work out fine.

If in doubt, ask a Romane. And when in Rome.....

Best regards,

Steve

[rosie]

I believe it is a good time to begin hoarding small materials that may be used for building and repairing. Other then the usual tools, such as hammers, hatches, shovels etc, it would be good on hand to have an abundance of nails, screws, nuts and bolts of all sizes. These can then be used to barter with, along with repairing and building homes and shelters.

I had started my collection mainly for building twig furniture, but as I see it growing, I see the possibilities of having extra parts for bartering down the road. I am not concerned about making money, just having something worthwhile that someone else may need from me down the road.

in love & light :love:

in love & light

[Lost Soul]

Twig furniture was mentioned. When I was in Egypt earlier this year, I watched one Egyptian hack away at some reeds. He'd slice it up, bend it, fasten it to place and allow it to dry to make any furniture he needed. It was amazing to watch.

[eris23]

The survival podcast is a great resource. http://www.thesurvivalpodcast.com/

[Lost Soul]

On my last post, I spoke about potential fuel sources. Aside from biodiesel/vegetable oil, I see this as a real possibility. With this system, no matter where you are, you'll never run out of fuel. During WWII, I've heard estimates of 1 million vehicles were modified to run on biomass. See the below video.

3XPH3fV1Fd4

--sjkted

Thank you sjkted. As one who's crossed the Golden Gate bridge numerous times by vehicle, foot and bicycle, I can attest to that it was filmed there.

[Arrowwind]

I'm traveling in Mexico this week..

In one town I saw a cart being pulled by a horse... the cart had an axel taken from a car... and had regular car tires.
On top a wooden box was placed with a seat for the driver.

I think this may be more reality based that making diesl fuel from oil. Remember, all that oil that people use to make their homemade fuel generally comes from resturants.. that would likely be out of business...

People will still need to get around, but the horse and mule will have renewed value. In Mexico, in some areas they are still valued means of transport.

So a two horse team pulling a good trailer or wagon with a couple of manual hand saws can make their way to the forest to collect wood for the local community, to heat their homes, cook their meals, etc.

[Ahkenaten]

I told my family and friends to forget their fancy gadgets and all the high-tech stuff and remember the shovel, pick, rake and hoe.

[Vanessa]

So true, we won't need an economy as much as we need to have a community with enough different skill sets to help maintain a community.

Now is the time to polish or acquire skills. the more the better. the more variety the better too.

Imagine the change has happened long enough for all your clothes need mending or replacement. Can you sew or find someone who does. Do you have fabric, thread or even scissors? General knowledge of making a pair of pants, shirt or skirt?

Now is the time to haunt garage sales for useful items that can be used in a pinch.

Locate all the different skill sets within your circle and see what is still necessary...either learn it yourself or find someone in your circle more suited to learning that skill.

And don't count out those old folks. I'm married to one, and he still surprises people with what that old office worker type knows to do. Think McIver.