Why Are Americans So Apathetic... And what can be done about it ?

[giovonni]

will share this timely discussion here ...

Why Are Americans So Apathetic? And what can be done about it?

"The BFP Roundtable takes on the public apathy surrounding the illegal wars of aggression, the extrajudicial drone assassinations, the illegal warrantless wiretapping, and other outrages of our era. Why is the public so passive in the face of such abuses? And what can be done about it? Find out more in this must-see BFP Roundtable discussion."

Published on Jun 10, 2014


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0IzsNW0OFbk&feature=em-uploademail

[Sabrina]

Well perhaps the start of a political shift rolling, as in the recent European elections...:)

http://www.latimes.com/nation/politics/politicsnow/la-na-pn-cantor-loses-to-tea-party-challenger-20140610-story.html

In a shocking political defeat guaranteed to upend Republican Party politics, House Majority Leader Eric Cantor of Virginia lost his primary election Tuesday to a tea party newcomer who hammered the No. 2 leader on immigration reform. It was the first downfall of a congressional leader in a generation.......

"This is the political version of the San Francisco earthquake," said Stuart Rothenberg, who publishes the Rothenberg Political Report, a nonpartisan analysis of elections. "It came out of nowhere."

[giovonni]

Aha ... ;)

i believe these two forum members post articulate and sum up the current situation within the United States ... And quite so perhaps for all of humans living within the current dying paradigm ... whether awoke or asleep ...

Lifted from another current forum Thread ...

First from Curt


Most Americans know something is wrong but don't have the knowledge, the resources or the time to figure out that we've been hijacked by a faceless cabal of global oligarchs who literally want most of us dead...

In fairness, this is a hard reality to face when you've grown up on a steady diet of Mickey Mouse... and stories about the glory days of Washington, Lincoln, and FDR.

The truth is we face an assault on all sides. Our dollar is being devalued. Our minds are being harassed and controlled; our bodies are being poisoned, fattened and sterilized.

Our media is the most wretched outside of state TV in China. Our education system is abhorrent. 90% of us don't know the difference between socialism and democracy, much less democracy and a republic.

We're being fluoridated and dosed with heavy metals and toxins and fed genetically altered frankenfood.

We pay $2000 to go to the dentist for a root canal (after insurance).

It costs 75K to get an undergraduate degree. A huge proportion of Americans have to borrow money each month just to pay the interest on credit debt (which was itself accrued to pay for living expenses)...and our real wages haven't gone up since the 70's.

We have vast unemployment, and underemployment, just like Europe, except with virtually no safety net. Those who have good paying jobs are taxed at asinine levels, which is odd because we don't really receive anything in return for this money as our infrastructure is caving in all around us.

And we don't get vacations, or reasonable amounts of sick time, or reasonable family leave when we have children. And any health concern greater than tonsillitis will very often result in personal bankruptcy.

Our government is abysmally corrupt... like third world banana republic corrupt. We have the biggest inequity in wealth of any country in the world.

We've been targeted. We've been taken out. We're mob-hit victims bleeding in the street.

We don't have much time to consider how it got this way because we're trying to stay alive.

So cut us, and yourself, some slack. :thumb:



And finally from Kevin (the gripreaper)


I want to answer the question in the OP, within the overall context of the United States and it’s people.

Our forefathers braved the oceans and came to this continent to escape tyranny and oppression, the divisiveness and control which has existed on this planet for eons, not specific to the United States. Remember, this country is only a little over 200 years old, and from the very beginning, the founding fathers were a mixed bag of elitists with ties to the crown, died in the wool freemasons, hell bent on making this country an agent of the Vatican and the banksters, while the rest of the delegates did want freedom and liberty.

This battle raged on for the first century, when the banksters finally gained their foothold, through wars and debt. Once the 1913 Federal Reserve Act was passed, the banksters had control. The United States has been under a military state of emergency since the mid 1800’s, all citizens were made wards of the state, chattel for the bankruptcy, and the globalist banksters have controlled all aspects of industry, education, government, media, and religion ever since.

To say that US citizens are rampantly consumerist misses the point, considering that the debt based fiat monetary system is designed to cannibalize resources through imperialistic expansion and slavery. After the great depression of the 1930’s, where money per capita in circulation was reduced to about 3 dollars per person, it became almost impossible to survive and function until Roosevelt gave us the New Deal under social security, and other entitlements. We were sold a bill of goods in exchange for our labor “in perpetuity” to the banksters.

The main reason the United States was ALLOWED to prosper so extensively in the last 70 years since then, is because the elite needed an educated work force to back engineer the stellar technology and to implement their covert black op’s agendas within a rapid timeline, based on a perceived threat and the need to bring the planet up to speed with other off world technology.

Consider taking about 100 million people with a gross GDP of about 3.5 trillion a year at the turn of the last century, to 300 million people and a GDP of 17 trillion a year today. This happened because it was engineered to happen, a collateral side effect being consumerism. Although it appears that US citizens are spoiled and have wealth, none of us own anything or hold allodial fee simple title to any tangible assets, and none of the fiat currency we hold in savings has any intrinsic value.

We have been duped, lied to, covertly and overtly manipulated, and used to create the most massive underground economy and technology known to this planet, providing the globalists with the largest mercenary military force for their colonialistic imperialism to rape and pillage the entire planet. The corporatocracy is NOT United States specific, but it is global is scope, and couching the debate as nationalistic misses the point and focuses on the citizens of the United States rather than the true culprits of the demise.

The demise of modern western societies is NOT United States specific, and neither is the imminent transformation taking place. It is engineered globally, is a global phenomenon, and affects all of us globally, and is slated to come to a town near you, if it hasn’t already.

The expansion of the United States was engineered, and so is the collapse of the United States an engineered phenomenon. Nothing happens by accident and the populace has nothing to say about it and how their futures are to be guided until we lose the nationalistic blame game and stand as one human species all around the world and realize the problem is global, and not national. The elite have NO nationalistic tendencies or proclivities, and we should not either.

Most people in the United States are good people, just like the people in Iraq and Syria, or Israel or Russia. They are just like you and me, and are awakening to the globalist agenda more and more each day. If you want to know what you can do about it, go outside and talk to your next door neighbor about the globalist agenda. Keep studying and learning and sharing, and doing what you can to NO LONGER support the globalist corporatocracy. ALL OF US are in the same boat. We each need to do our part to starve the beast and awaken our neighbors.

Creating divisiveness and pointing the finger at US citizens is part of the divisive agenda, the same agenda the elite use. The United States does not deserve the trouble flowing their way any more than any other nation. Let us rise above and take the higher ground, and work on what unites us all and not focus on any one segment of humanity and how they are different, or what they deserve or don't deserve.

The very word "deserve" implies an agenda, meting out rewards or punishment based on behavior, or a set of relativistic values and morals, decided by whom? Who deserves to be at the top of the power pyramid, and who deserves to be at the bottom? We need to move away from the pyramidal power structures of the last several millennium, with the elite at the top an all of us at the bottom, and the corporations and banks in the middle.

I think all of us are sick of war and debt, aren't we?

[Carmody]

Media saturation, confusion creation, too many 'crying of wolves'...the alertness/terrorism barrage (which no-one can maintain- no one can remain sensitive under constant fire)..all topped off with multiple forms of castration: DNA castration, alertness castration, ability castration, focus castration, data castration, chemical castration.

America will explode soon enough. All in the wrong directions, I'm afraid. In the directions of not going after the source of the problem, just the upper layer for the most part. The real reasons for it are at least 3 layers down... and the top layer..which is merely a concocted effect in itself... will be in direct physical conflict with the general public, and neither will know what they are really doing.

They will attack each other, maim each other .. and the beast beneath those layers will remain.

Only within the motion of that conflict itself, will the grease and motion required to go after the beast beneath....actually exist.

This is the way it always plays out, over the centuries, across many countries and regions. The true cause of these woes is never truly addressed and never truly excised from human existence.

[ulli]

This is how I see the average American, and I would not call them apathetic.
They are swimming, near drowning, without life vests, in a shark infested sea,
barely keeping their noses above water,
and darting between these hapless swimmers are luxury yachts, (representing the corporations),
and on board of which are the corporative board members.
And they spend their entire time scheming as groups,
how to further make the life of the drowning swimmers miserable...
also occasionally fishing someone out of the waters,
to give them a job as a cleaner on board their yacht.

Somehow they remind me of the Roman emperors and their aristocracy of Ancient Rome,
amusing themselves at the Coliseum.

P.S. I forgot to mention one more thing, that the yachts also try to ram each other. And that some captains get thrown overboard. So it's not all roses.
Oh, and the ocean is orange....

https://fbcdn-sphotos-c-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xpf1/t1.0-9/996097_10151870603262338_1548232715_n.jpg

[Joe Akulis]

"The BFP Roundtable takes on the public apathy surrounding the illegal wars of aggression, the extrajudicial drone assassinations, the illegal warrantless wiretapping, and other outrages of our era. Why is the public so passive in the face of such abuses?"

Kinda gives the impression that no other nation has an apathetic populace. That any other country who's leaders have been abusive, have had their people put a stop to it right away.

Or maybe the implication is that only Americans are expected to not be apathetic? Every one else can be, but not us?

[giovonni]

"The BFP Roundtable takes on the public apathy surrounding the illegal wars of aggression, the extrajudicial drone assassinations, the illegal warrantless wiretapping, and other outrages of our era. Why is the public so passive in the face of such abuses?"

Kinda gives the impression that no other nation has an apathetic populace. That any other country who's leaders have been abusive, have had their people put a stop to it right away.

Or maybe the implication is that only Americans are expected to not be apathetic? Every one else can be, but not us?


BINGO !

'It has been said ... 'When you blame others ... You give up your power to Change.'

[Joe Akulis]

Does that bingo mean you are agreeing that the topic of apathy towards abuses of power should be global in its scope, and not just focused on the US? Not sure what you meant there.

[giovonni]

Does that bingo mean you are agreeing that the topic of apathy towards abuses of power should be global in its scope, and not just focused on the US? Not sure what you meant there.

Bingo ~ defined is used to express satisfaction or surprise at a sudden positive event or outcome ... :)

[Calz]

Apathy is an inevitable result of satisfaction.

Take a close look at Grip's post Gio copied in post #3 of this thread.

A magnificent post depicting what has really been going on condensed into a few powerful yet concise ideas.


When the standard of living has been artificially raised beyond that of most of the world for such a length of time that it becomes "reality" for those who live it ... well there are consequences.


I need not elaborate as it is so very obvious on so many levels.


What can we do about it???


Ah ... there is the rub ...


I would venture to guess that most you have good ideas but hold that thought ... the ballgame is on ... honey ... can you please bring me another beer??? Oh ... Dancing with the Stars is on??? Okay ... I'll get it myself ... next commercial.


I expect the sharp plunge into what is and has really been going on will soon become painfully obvious to most in amerika ...


Won't be pretty ...


imho

[giovonni]

Thanks Cal ...

And since your last up here ... Could you grab US another beer ... :cheers:

[Sidney]

OK, I am going out on a limb here. BUT Two days in a row there have been threads that are pointing offensive fingers at ALL AMERICANS. Not all of us are riding on the same boat. The people that need to hear the information here, never will, because sleeping people don't visit alternative sites like this. Keep in mind, there are sleeping (stupid) people EVERYWHERE. Not just the US. I was born, raised, and am still forced to live here, because of domestic laws. To leave the country I would have to give up my parental rights. That said, I am still an American. And I feel I am speaking for others here that are Americans.
I truly am disgusted by the lack of class, and feelings by the members of Avalon this week. Seriously folks, there is such a thing called TACT. Find it, and use it. This video, should have been pasted on the other ANTI-AMERICAN thread.
In my opinion, Avalon just lowered itself to a level that I am not proud of, because as part of the Avalon family, if you disrespect one of us, you disrespect all of us.

[giovonni]

OK, I am going out on a limb here. BUT Two days in a row there have been threads that are pointing offensive fingers at ALL AMERICANS. Not all of us are riding on the same boat. The people that need to hear the information here, never will, because sleeping people don't visit alternative sites like this. Keep in mind, there are sleeping (stupid) people EVERYWHERE. Not just the US. I was born, raised, and am still forced to live here, because of domestic laws. To leave the country I would have to give up my parental rights. That said, I am still an American. And I feel I am speaking for others here that are Americans.
I truly am disgusted by the lack of class, and feelings by the members of Avalon this week. Seriously folks, there is such a thing called TACT. Find it, and use it. This video, should have been pasted on the other ANTI-AMERICAN thread.
In my opinion, Avalon just lowered itself to a level that I am not proud of, because as part of the Avalon family, if you disrespect one of us, you disrespect all of us.

Bingo !

Your a winner also Sidney ... :)


lots of this going around ... :noidea: ... perhaps the last 3 x flares ...

'When you blame others ... You give up your power to Change.'


I'd Love To Change The World


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hQT5zS1E1Ug

[TargeT]

at 1:08:00 Sibel speaks about Snowden being one of the best psyops of our time....

I personally couldn't agree more... Snowden and Wiki-leaks both got so much air time on the news I KNEW by that ALONE they were fake... you would never see something like that on the MSM unless it was intended to be.

[happyuk]

Why single out Americans as apathetic?

[giovonni]

Why single out Americans as apathetic?

That's the big question ~ HappyUK

No one really has on this thread ...
Though they have on this recent Avalon thread one > http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?72103-Do-Americans-deserve-the-Trouble-Flowing-their-way

[jake gittes]

Same here, TargeT. If Snowden was real, he wouldn't have gotten so much play on MSM. Too many people are hanging hopes on a rescuer on a white horse riding in to save the day, and latch onto people like Snowden. TPTB know this and create them for just that. One has to constantly discern to separate the wheat from the chafe. I have had to admit some I followed were phony, cast them aside and move on. It's better to be disillusioned than delusional. Get informed, not dis-informed.

[Sidney]

I think perhaps we might look closer at the definition of Apathy. Personally, I think it means lack of emotions/feelings on topics that others might get/show high emotion over.
Well, Flouride, is a BIG reason. (not just used in the US)
Chronic Illness (worldwide epidemic of, via poison in food air and water and lack of sunlight due to chemtrailig)
Being politically powerless, not just an American problem
Poverty- Worldwide problem
PTSD- due to repeated trauma due to repeated loss of financial security through loos of jobs, raping of the stock market etc. and all the soldiers that come home traumatized from battle, and forced drug useage

There are MANY reasons people become apathetic. But it is not an American problem. The WORLD is sick. Financially,emotionally,politically,morally, and physically.
How can there not be so much Apathy ??

[giovonni]

Yes Sidney

It is a world wide virus perpetrated upon us ... Between the chemtrails, water, food and pharmaceutical poisonings ... Is there really any wonder ... For now only the desperate seem to be acting out currently... Just this week alone these included the likes of a young boy stressed out killed another in school, then supposedly shot himself in Troutsdale, Oregon ... While in Las Vegas two crazed extremest assassinated two policemen (while they ate their lunch) ... then killing another person who attempted to stop them before turning their guns on themselves ...

And if we could really looked closely at the real carnage (toll) going on around the world daily ... We all would probably go crazy as well ... One can only take in and absorb so much stress in a life ... It is even being demonstrated here on this forum with members hashing out frustration and blame towards fellow members.

Note that word apathy (a lack of concern) is probably the only thing that's really keeping many humans from going over the edge tentatively ... And unfortunately i have no doubts ... It will only get worse before it gets any better ... We are all truly within mist of a psychopathic driven cycle ... It will eventually play out ... But i truly believe only by each of us holding our individual space in love and keeping our heads ... will allow any of us get through it .. Sadly though in a sense some apathy will be required to survive.

[Snowflower]

I'm surprised no one has commented on the physical reasons for the apathy. The Germans put fluoride in drinking water in concentration camps to keep the prisoners apathetic. It worked then and it works now.

[Sidney]

I'm surprised no one has commented on the physical reasons for the apathy. The Germans put fluoride in drinking water in concentration camps to keep the prisoners apathetic. It worked then and it works now.

Did you miss post #18? :)

[cursichella1]

We're ultimately responsible for the actions of our leaders, and can no longer claim innocence in allowing these illegal aggressions to continue. This is like the Nazi excuse of "just following orders", with the exception that we are capable of changing our leaders.

If Americans realized their responsibility for these illegal and immoral acts, and believed they would be facing perhaps a Nuremburg-like trial (along with St. Peter at the "pearly gates", karma or whatever...), you can bet that they'd be less apathetic.

[Roisin]

As America became more "Evangelicalized", the "Fatalism Quotient" increased exponentially among the masses. The higher the "Fatalism Quotient" got, complacency among the masses rose too on several important levels, hence, why we are at the point where we are now. The NWO is already in place and has been for many years now. The shift has already taken place too. If you want to know which direction that shift has shifted to, be up at dawn to watch the sun rise.

[cursichella1]

For a report on the Global apathy following the Snowden leaks, see this post:

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?59919-Edward-Snowden-the-whistleblower-behind-the-NSA-surveillance-revelations&p=843265&viewfull=1#post843265

p.s. I couldn't decide which was the best thread for this...

[Carmody]

"The BFP Roundtable takes on the public apathy surrounding the illegal wars of aggression, the extrajudicial drone assassinations, the illegal warrantless wiretapping, and other outrages of our era. Why is the public so passive in the face of such abuses?"

Kinda gives the impression that no other nation has an apathetic populace. That any other country who's leaders have been abusive, have had their people put a stop to it right away.

Or maybe the implication is that only Americans are expected to not be apathetic? Every one else can be, but not us?


BINGO !

'It has been said ... 'When you blame others ... You give up your power to Change.'

Every single society and culture that has played at being the top dog, in their given 'time' has had such inertia and apathy.

All.

Not one exception so far, that I am aware of.

How does that go again? Oh yes...: "It is difficult to get a warm and comfortable person to understand what cold and freezing means."

Essentially, if it is not personal, it is not understood. If it is not personal, it is not noticed.

When a system embarks on a very controlled and perfected methodology of making sure the public does not ever understand what is going on with their energies, then such a purposely built, enabled and enforced veil is going to be difficult to bring down. Especially since the opposite of it's 'sleep', is knowing,and the minimum that can come from the knowing..is pain, pain of the most horrid kind. So it will be especially difficult to entertain such thinking, in societal awareness terms.

So you want to awaken an entire culture and society.

And yet... we can't even get the average human man or woman to understand when their partner wants to leave and wants nothing to do with them anymore. They can't get past THAT, and you want something infinitely more complex, infinitely more difficult, and infinitely more layered -to deal with... to happen?

Think about this for a while and consider the complexity of the hurdles, and how if even one of them get knocked down, the people, in a hypnotic state, go over to the hurdle, stand it back up again....and KILL anyone who tries to upset that hurdle. Never mind the state/religion/corporate games in that direction.

The monkey in man is a very potent thing, especially when it lies in them - unrealized as being the core thing that runs their internal show and cognition.

[Dorjezigzag]

Not the American people, but I wish the American government and THE Military-Industrial Complex was a bit more apathetic.

What has their enthusiastic meddling, "removing dictators" and "bringing peace" to the middle east done

The UN Security Council has condemned attacks in Iraq by Islamist militants who have overrun two major cities, Mosul and Tikrit.

The UN also said the humanitarian situation around Mosul, where up to 500,000 people have fled, was "dire and is worsening by the moment".

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-27806094


Please any Americans don't take this as an insult,
I am British ( if that means anything anymore) and we are just as responsible if not historically more so.

[T Smith]

at 1:08:00 Sibel speaks about Snowden being one of the best psyops of our time....

I personally couldn't agree more... Snowden and Wiki-leaks both got so much air time on the news I KNEW by that ALONE they were fake... you would never see something like that on the MSM unless it was intended to be.

There have been many whistleblowers before Snowden with the same information, all of whom received little to no media coverage. The so-called Snowden revelations are nothing new.

In my view, Snowden is an unwitting shill; I don't necessarily think he is a conscious agent of psyops, but rather a pawn in a greater psyops above his pay grade. The information was deliberately leaked and disseminated en masse with the intent to shift the collective consciousness into a state of acclimation. As we transition into the NWO, people need to accept their state of servitude. One doesn't throw a cold glass into the oven. It need be tempered first if you don't want it to crack into a million pieces.

The Snowden revelations are a campaign of acclimation.

[T Smith]

We're ultimately responsible for the actions of our leaders, and can no longer claim innocence in allowing these illegal aggressions to continue. This is like the Nazi excuse of "just following orders", with the exception that we are capable of changing our leaders.

If Americans realized their responsibility for these illegal and immoral acts, and believed they would be facing perhaps a Nuremburg-like trial (along with St. Peter at the "pearly gates", karma or whatever...), you can bet that they'd be less apathetic.

Yes...and no.

If a bank robber enters a bank, are the bystanders responsible for stopping the crime? Yes... and no. In a very real sense, yes. As a bystander I could physically accost the robber (and risk my life) to attempt to thwart the crime. This is same relationship Americans have to their leaders.

If one is tempted to argue Americans "elected" their representatives and are therefore responsible for them, that is totally a bogus (and naive) premise. Elections are rigged, plain and simple. Grant it, black-box voting manipulation is a trump card that need not always be played, but when TPTB have that card in their deck, what difference does it make? If mind-control, brainwashing, and manipulation of the collective consciousness all fail, you always have the black-box voting trump card to play.

The very sad reality is, Americans are largely helpless to change this dynamic. To compound the problem, Americans are mostly unaware of their predicament, which greatly reduces any meaningful and effective resistance.

[cursichella1]

We're ultimately responsible for the actions of our leaders, and can no longer claim innocence in allowing these illegal aggressions to continue. This is like the Nazi excuse of "just following orders", with the exception that we are capable of changing our leaders.

If Americans realized their responsibility for these illegal and immoral acts, and believed they would be facing perhaps a Nuremburg-like trial (along with St. Peter at the "pearly gates", karma or whatever...), you can bet that they'd be less apathetic.

Yes...and no.

If a bank robber enters a bank, are the bystanders responsible for stopping the crime? Yes... and no. In a very real sense, yes. As a bystander I could physically accost the robber (and risk my life) to attempt to thwart the crime. This is same relationship Americans have to their leaders.

If one is tempted to argue Americans "elected" their representatives and are therefore responsible for them, that is totally a bogus (and naive) premise. Elections are rigged, plain and simple. Grant it, black-box voting manipulation is a trump card that need not always be played, but when TPTB have that card in their deck, what difference does it make? If mind-control, brainwashing, and manipulation of the collective consciousness all fail, you always have the black-box voting trump card to play.

The very sad reality is, Americans are largely helpless to change this dynamic. To compound the problem, Americans are mostly unaware of their predicament, which greatly reduces any meaningful and effective resistance.

I see what you're saying, however, the bank robbers don't represent the bank customers (or the human race for that matter). When the U.S. Gov't does something, they're doing it as our representatives, in our name.

Agreed, elections are crooked and rigged, but we're (meaning collectively in the past...) still responsible for being a asleep at the wheel when this became the norm.

I don't want to accept the blame for what these criminals do, either. But I am guilty of taking, at least for the first 20 of my legal voting years, for granted that our gov't was good and looking out for us and that they had good reasons for doing some of the questionable things they were doing. That went along with being oblivious and "looking out for no. 1" ha ha. But then we didn't know then what we know now. We were victims for being outsmarted, brainwashed, etc.

But now that we know, we don't have that excuse and shouldn't rest until we've enlightened as many others as possible, exhausting all options. Doing nothing when we KNOW makes us complicit.

A few avenues for change remain. I do believe it is up to those of us to do everything that we possibly can to bring the facts to those that are unaware.

[crosby]

apathy... why would i care? i gotta pain in my chest. i gotta run to (put your favorite store here) for some hotdogs. i need a pack of cigarettes. wheres my beer? what the hell is apathy? nobody cares about me.......hey the (put your favorite team here) are playing and I got money on this..... i gotta pain in my chest. i gotta run to (put your favorite store here) for some hotdogs. i need a pack of cigarettes. wheres my beer? Where is the apathy? it is right in society (every society). Right in your face (in every face). Right in everybody's face. it isn't only in America, it is everywhere. we just have more words to describe it..... :p

Please do not despair, it doesn't run rampant ~ so many are aware. and they are working behind the scenes to change this unfortunate cruci-fiction. who the hell cares about apathy? WE DO! who the hell cares about hotdogs? NOBODY! who the hell cares about a favorite team? NOBODY! WHO THE HELL CARES ABOUT US AND YOU? EVERYBODY........... thank you Gio..... you bring great awareness to this concern........

bring it on........i say, if you have the means to discuss this issue, then you have the means to pay it forward and do the right thing..... i believe i will be placing this in another thread........as well.
all the best,
crosby

cynicism is good - ridicule - - bad. stick with this thread. there is a definitive power with numbers.

[gripreaper]

If a bank robber enters a bank, are the bystanders responsible for stopping the crime? Yes... and no. In a very real sense, yes. As a bystander I could physically accost the robber (and risk my life) to attempt to thwart the crime.

You could do that, like this guy did.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OVtbdzKL_o4

[giovonni]

hmm ...

From July 2010

American Apathy will Destroy Our Society ?

on and on it goes ... waiting for the bubble to burst ...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NJdCdXqjcX0

[giovonni]

On the other hand, i like to believe those of us sharing on this global forum...
Are contributing in mitigating this apathetic conditioning ...

From October 2010

Dave Meslin "Redefining Apathy"


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LuHNVYW4tW0

[Snowflower]

V

I'm surprised no one has commented on the physical reasons for the apathy. The Germans put fluoride in drinking water in concentration camps to keep the prisoners apathetic. It worked then and it works now.

Did you miss post #18? :)

Sure did. At least, that sentence. And I believe it was intentional. All of it - food, water, air, soil. Kill the planet to kill the people.

[onawah]

I posted the following on the Simon Discussion thread here:
http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?67888-Discussion-Thread-on-the-Simon-Parkes-Material&p=843442&viewfull=1#post843442
but it seems we are discussing pretty much the same topic on several threads today, and it belongs here as much as anywhere:


The discussion on the thread here:
http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?72150---ALERT---America-Under-Attack--Massive-Coordinated-Staged-Shooting-Gun-Control-Operation-Underway&p=843314#post843314
...is really bringing home to me the truth in something that Simon pointed out, about the untenable condition that has been created on the planet by the numbers of psychopaths and otherwise dysfunctional souls who have been dumped here by the regressives, into the mainstream of relatively harmless and unsuspecting population who are unable to comprehend the mindset of the psychopaths and thus so easily become their unwitting prey.
Although I am not nearly so naive as I once was, and though my eyes were opened as early as the Vietnam era to the kind of monstrous $_)$%&^%+#W+_)@+_ that has been perpetrated by those in power, it was still difficult for me at first to believe that the numerous shootings in the US such as the Sandy Hook event, etc. were staged by our own government, and especially that apparently conscienceless US citizens have been employed as actors to dramatize them. :shocked:
I'm not sure I know how to keep silent about it anymore, but at the same time, I don't know how to tell people what I think without risking them turning their backs on me, considering me a pathetic nut case. :tsk:
Nothing new for Avalonians, of course, but this does seem to be reaching a crisis point.
If it's this bad now, I can only imagine what 2016 will be like, which Simon has said will be the tipping point.:boom:
I certainly hope it's not going to take that long...:pray:

Certainly apathy is a factor not just in the US but globally. But the problem is not just apathy, imho, it's the inability of normal people to comprehend the real agendas of sociopaths and psychopaths.
And then, once comprehension takes place, shock sets in.
And finally, numbness, resulting from seeing no way out.
Apathy implies a willful decision to be uninvolved, but if individual and collective will itself has been tampered with, which is certainly the case, then I don't think apathy is really the right word.

[Milneman]

This is how I see the average American, and I would not call them apathetic.
They are swimming, near drowning, without life vests, in a shark infested sea,
barely keeping their noses above water,
and darting between these hapless swimmers are luxury yachts, (representing the corporations),
and on board of which are the corporative board members.
And they spend their entire time scheming as groups,
how to further make the life of the drowning swimmers miserable...
also occasionally fishing someone out of the waters,
to give them a job as a cleaner on board their yacht.

Somehow they remind me of the Roman emperors and their aristocracy of Ancient Rome,
amusing themselves at the Coliseum.

P.S. I forgot to mention one more thing, that the yachts also try to ram each other. And that some captains get thrown overboard. So it's not all roses.
Oh, and the ocean is orange....

https://fbcdn-sphotos-c-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xpf1/t1.0-9/996097_10151870603262338_1548232715_n.jpg

But....all you have to do is stop struggling, stop flailing your arms around, and stand up. The water is two feet deep! ;)

Which brings another interesting question: What do we get out of the flailing around and suffering? We're doing it because we get something out of doing it. What exactly is that? I want to suggest that's why the apathy exists. Because changing in some fundamental way will mean giving something up that's more important that the implied loss we will have if we change. The loss, I want to emphasize, is implied, and not necessarily real. Believing in the loss is just another way of flailing in this shallow water, or fanta orange pop as the case may be. ;)

[Milneman]

OK, I am going out on a limb here. BUT Two days in a row there have been threads that are pointing offensive fingers at ALL AMERICANS. Not all of us are riding on the same boat. The people that need to hear the information here, never will, because sleeping people don't visit alternative sites like this. Keep in mind, there are sleeping (stupid) people EVERYWHERE. Not just the US. I was born, raised, and am still forced to live here, because of domestic laws. To leave the country I would have to give up my parental rights. That said, I am still an American. And I feel I am speaking for others here that are Americans.
I truly am disgusted by the lack of class, and feelings by the members of Avalon this week. Seriously folks, there is such a thing called TACT. Find it, and use it. This video, should have been pasted on the other ANTI-AMERICAN thread.
In my opinion, Avalon just lowered itself to a level that I am not proud of, because as part of the Avalon family, if you disrespect one of us, you disrespect all of us.

Aw princess. ;)

It's not so much Anti-American I think as it is anti-change. People are comfortable with the status-quo! They don't want to rock the boat because they'll miss dancing with the stars and that cold beer! And they're convinced that change will mean horrible things will happen! Which is why you won't give your guns up down there! If I hand over my gun from my cold dead hand, the entire system will collapse into a socialist nightmare.

Reality check from your friends to the north: You're already living in a socialist nightmare. The guns are only making it worse.

Family members have the strength to tell each other when the **** is getting to crazy, and they need to change. It's honesty and integrity even if it means 99% of the people you tell the truth to will hate your guts for it.

Sid, there's this disconnect with personal responsibility that's a big part of this problem. I call it the choice to engage in the system that promotes the use of victimhood as capital. People trade and keep their misery going because they can use it as capital to trade. It's what happens when you take the simplest aspects of capitalism and mix them with heavy doses of politically correct/socialist values that in themselves aren't bad, but when you combine them this way give people the notion that there has to be payment for suffering, and there always has to be someone else to blame.

If I remember correctly, all things being equal, one of the things Washington did was get into a boat that was rowed across the Delaware. Meaning, people took charge and rowed the boat physically across the river. What we would do now is wait for someone else to drag the boat from the other side, and then cry and whine that no one has put a rope on the boat itself, and then expect to be compensated because we are too weak minded to pick up an oar and do it ourselves.

I'm sorry, Sid. I read your post and just heard *wa wa wa*. As my friends keep telling me, choose your battles to mean something. This is just...wasted bandwidth in my opinion.

[Milneman]

I posted the following on the Simon Discussion thread here:
http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?67888-Discussion-Thread-on-the-Simon-Parkes-Material&p=843442&viewfull=1#post843442
but it seems we are discussing pretty much the same topic on several threads today, and it belongs here as much as anywhere:


The discussion on the thread here:
http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?72150---ALERT---America-Under-Attack--Massive-Coordinated-Staged-Shooting-Gun-Control-Operation-Underway&p=843314#post843314
...is really bringing home to me the truth in something that Simon pointed out, about the untenable condition that has been created on the planet by the numbers of psychopaths and otherwise dysfunctional souls who have been dumped here by the regressives, into the mainstream of relatively harmless and unsuspecting population who are unable to comprehend the mindset of the psychopaths and thus so easily become their unwitting prey.
Although I am not nearly so naive as I once was, and though my eyes were opened as early as the Vietnam era to the kind of monstrous $_)$%&^%+#W+_)@+_ that has been perpetrated by those in power, it was still difficult for me at first to believe that the numerous shootings in the US such as the Sandy Hook event, etc. were staged by our own government, and especially that apparently conscienceless US citizens have been employed as actors to dramatize them. :shocked:
I'm not sure I know how to keep silent about it anymore, but at the same time, I don't know how to tell people what I think without risking them turning their backs on me, considering me a pathetic nut case. :tsk:
Nothing new for Avalonians, of course, but this does seem to be reaching a crisis point.
If it's this bad now, I can only imagine what 2016 will be like, which Simon has said will be the tipping point.:boom:
I certainly hope it's not going to take that long...:pray:

Certainly apathy is a factor not just in the US but globally. But the problem is not just apathy, imho, it's the inability of normal people to comprehend the real agendas of sociopaths and psychopaths.
And then, once comprehension takes place, shock sets in.
And finally, numbness, resulting from seeing no way out.
Apathy implies a willful decision to be uninvolved, but if individual and collective will itself has been tampered with, which is certainly the case, then I don't think apathy is really the right word.

You needed Simon to tell you this?

Let me put it this way.

An uncle of mine who smoked 2 packs of cigarettes a day and 2 bowls of dope (for "pain management" apparently) for 20+ years recently quit smoking. Six weeks later, he went for a physical and is now 3-4 weeks from being dead from cancer. He had an inability to comprehend the real agenda, that being he knew by smoking he put himself at a higher risk for cancer. He comprehended what the doctors, and then shock set in. Finally, he turned numb and realized there was no way out. He's waiting to die.

He was willfully involved in his disease by virtue of taking part in behaviours that put him in a higher risk category. The same is done by society using fossil fuels. We know we have cancer, and we're all throwing our arms up and asking ourselves, how can this be? Who can we blame, for surely we have done nothing wrong (as we light another cigarette).

It's time to stop looking for people to blame, and start waking up to the fact that the bill we are being presented to is our own fault. We wanted it this way. Why would we expect it to be any different, except that gets us out of having to take any responsibility?

As long as we continue to use our own victimhood to trade, we will never escape the cycle we have chosen to be in. And that's not anyone's agenda but our own.

[Sidney]

I will take the high road and ignore your PRINCESS DIG. This is a world problem. The Americans have many faults that are not shared with other countries. IMO, Apathy is not one of them. Going around name calling gets you nowhere.

[giovonni]

Milneman my Friend ...

While sharing your perspectives on this issue are your prerogative on this thread ...

Your comments and condescending nature are beneath the true spirit of an Avalon member ...

Everyone on the board is entitled to have a bad day as such ... Here's hoping yours improves.

:cheers:

Gio

[Wind]

Shouldn't the question be why humans are so apathetic? I see society around me as apathetic and somewhat depressing. People have lost connection with the spirit, their immortal divine self.

Humans have become too interested in the external world and vanity, somewhere in the process we forgot the inner world, but now we have started to remember it again. Now "new" science is starting to prove that this whole universe is conscious and alive, nothing is random and we are not just accidents. We have a purpose we and we are here on Earth fullfilling our divine roles. We have been sleeping far too long in this dream, now is time to wake up. Mother is giving us is the wake up call, let us honor it. Hope is a good thing, maybe the best of things, and no good thing ever dies.

"And in that day men will be weary of life, and they will cease to think the universe worthy of reverent wonder and worship.

They will no longer love this world around us, this incomparable work of God, this glorious structure which he has built, this sum of good made up of many diverse forms, this instrument whereby the will of God operates in that which he has made, ungrudgingly favoring man’s welfare; this combination and accumulation of all the manifold things that call forth the veneration, praise, and love of the beholder.

Darkness will be preferred to light, and death will be thought more profitable than life; no one will raise his eyes to heaven; the pious will be deemed insane, the impious wise; the madman will be thought a brave man, and the wicked will be esteemed as good.

As for the soul, and the belief that it is immortal by nature, or may hope to attain to immortality, as I have taught you, – all this they will mock, and even persuade themselves that it is false. No word of reverence or piety, no utterance worthy of heaven, will be heard or believed.

But when all this has befallen, Asclepius, then God the Creator of all things will look on that which has come to pass, and will stop the disorder by the counterforce of his will, which is the good. He will call back to the right path those who have gone astray; he will cleanse the world of evil, washing it away with floods, burning it out with the fiercest fire, and expelling it with war and pestilence.

And thus he will bring back his world to its former aspect, so that the Cosmos will once more be deemed worthy of worship and wondering reverence, and God, the maker and maintainer of the Mighty Fabric, will be adored by the men of that day with continuous songs of praise and blessing.

Such is the new birth of the Cosmos; it is a making again of all things good, a holy and awe-inspiring restoration of all nature; and it is wrought inside the process of Time by the eternal Will of the Creator. - The Lament of Hermes (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E4Kou9TGdi8)

[giovonni]

It's All Just A Human Condition (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/richard-c-senelick-md/aging-apathy_b_2218452.html)

Everybody Hurts


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S2N_uvnvGbI

[RunningDeer]

On the other hand, i like to believe those of us sharing on this global forum...
Are contributing in mitigating this apathetic conditioning ...

From October 2010

Dave Meslin "Redefining Apathy"



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LuHNVYW4tW0

:bump:
Well done.
Thanks, Gio. :wave:

[Pam]

I have read both threads regarding the apathy of Americans. First of all I am an American, and no, I am not at all offended by the thought. Why are most Americans apathetic? Because they don't know or understand the level of deception and the advanced state of the corrosion that our current social system is in and they don't want to. It is too overwhelming for most to dive into the ""truth" as we think we know here on Avalon. And what does knowing the truth do for one individual. In my case there was initially overwhelming angst, depression and alienation as I was perceived to be ridiculous. After a long period of time I gained an acceptance of this new reality. With acceptance I have diminished the anger and rage of our current existence.

I am not saying all apathy is a good thing, In the case of overlooking our government and its actions it is merely a survival mechanism. I understand the benefits of keeping your head in the sand.

If you compare my life with my neighbor the difference between us is incredible. She buzzes around all day happily transporting her children from one activity to the next, attends her church functions and buys new toys endlessly. She is content with her life as far as I can see. She probably makes sure her kids get flouride treatments twice a year at the dentist. She doesn't have a clue that her children might be living in a hellish state at any near time in the future, or, if she does she doesn't acknowledge that.Maybe she has a bit of unease in the background of her mind but she leaves it there.Then there is me. I wake up on any given day and will not be the least bit surprised if we have a total economic collapse, or if martial law will be imposed or if...... I don't trust anything I read, I don't have meaningful relationships with people that I used to feel comfortable with and the list goes on and on. At the end of the day I really don't know if what I think the "truth" is in reality any more the truth than hers. To date in the US, it looks like her reality is winning out. The stock market is soaring, unemployment is supposedly down. People are back to buying stuff...I see more McMansions being built all over the place. If we both died tomorrow in a lot of ways she wins. I can never go back to the way she lives. I made a choice to seek truth but there is a price to pay for that. So are Americans apathetic? Yes, but it may not be such a bad thing.

[scarletfire]

“Who controls the food supply controls the people; who controls the energy can control whole continents; who controls money can control the world.”
-Henry Kissinger

..... Do Americans have the luxury to be apathetic because we don't see our lives dependent on the alternative? I know many people who choose ignorance because the alternative is depressing and uncomfortable. Is the apathy of the American populace simply an illustration of Maslow's hierarchy of needs?

[giovonni]

thanks for the insightful comments ...

After apathy comes fear ... and Fear always makes one do Something ...

[giovonni]

to sustain the human condition ...
we need to desire to maintain a connection through consciousness with love ...

Will of the Waves


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t_QooRVABJk

[ulli]

thanks for the insightful comments ...

After apathy comes fear ... and Fear always makes one do Something ...


I have come to the conclusion- maybe because I lived in England for so long-
that whatever statement one makes about a nation the opposite is also true.

So if we notice pathological apathy, then it's clear to me that pathological ideology also exists in equal abundance in the US
One just has to look at the Bible Belt.
Anyway, reconciling those will be quite a job.

An old buddy of mine, music writer Nick Kent, who is considered by some as legendary now, wrote a book with this title:

https://fbcdn-sphotos-e-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xfp1/t1.0-9/1977086_744558692234625_210954469_n.png

Found his book. Pretty brilliant title, I thought, given that he was so close to Keith Richards of the Rolling Stones.
http://img2.imagesbn.com/p/9780306819155_p0_v1_s260x420.JPG

1974 was the craziest year of my life, in part because of this guy and his then girlfriend Chrissie Hyndes. The year the punk in me was born, and it was the year that hippiedom had died, due to an overdose of apathy.
Something worth pondering....

[giovonni]

As each waking day passes, i have become more humbled by the awakening process ... i have come to appreciate it as more a singular one. Sadly some of those that i've encountered along the way, who i thought were (even) more enlightened than myself... Have fallen back from my path. This is neither good nor bad, it just is. We all evolve at differing paces... Though it be wonderful to wake up one morning and find everything in its rightful place and order ... Whatever that would entail ... Especially for a non collective (hive) consciousness such as currently exist here on this plane... i have come to sense realistically, it is less likely to occur in that way ... Instead i have chosen as my mindful aim and vocation to focus on creating a personal daily life, that is attentive to the gift and responsibilities of my individual awaking process ... By simply doing this ... Apathy is less likely to prevail in my current life's experience.

[ulli]

As each waking day passes, i have become more humbled by the awakening process ... i have come to appreciate it as more a singular one. Sadly some of those that i've encountered along the way, who i thought were (even) more enlightened than myself... Have fallen back from my path. This is neither good nor bad, it just is. We all evolve at differing paces... Though it be wonderful to wake up one morning and find everything in its rightful place and order ... Whatever that would entail ... Especially for a non collective (hive) consciousness such as currently exist here on this plane... i have come to sense realistically, it is less likely to occur in that way ... Instead i have chosen as my mindful aim and vocation to focus on creating a personal daily life, that is attentive to the gift and responsibilities of my individual awaking process ... By simply doing this ... Apathy is less likely to prevail in my current life's experience.

Way to go, Gio.
Each individual who maintains inner balance causes an infinite ripple effect.

Their lives might then even touch the lives of those who are still without soul.

[TargeT]

Though it be wonderful to wake up one morning and find everything in its rightful place and order ... Whatever that would entail ... Especially for a non collective (hive) consciousness such as currently exist here on this plane... i have come to sense realistically, it is less likely to occur in that way.


it will happen like falling asleep; slowly, then all at once.

This seems to be the way of things; the 100th monkey is a good example of this phenomenon.

or from a different perspective you could say:

"First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win."

[giovonni]

another way to perceive it ...

we all have already won ... everyone just dosen't realize it yet ...

regardless i have though ... :)

[Bill Ryan]

-------

The briefest answer...

Why Are Americans So Apathetic?


Mass fluoridation (and probably also vaccines).
The deliberately planned microwave effects of smart meters (see the work of Barrie Trower).
Internet consumerism (the illusion that one is well-informed, but any actual action taken is zero apart from talking to one's friends who already know what you know).
Mass cultural behavioral modification conditioning via covert electronic mind control programs effects.


Re the last, which is far more pervasive than anyone might ever want to believe, here's an extract from this well-known interview with Al Bielek and Preston Nichols:

http://www.whale.to/b/orion.html






Would you refresh my memory about some of the dates involved with the development of electronic mind control in the US?

The mind control experiments were moved to Montauk about 1969. The hardware phase of some of the later experiments began about 1975; equipment to modify the SAGE transmitter was ordered about 1973.

ITT was the main contractor and sub-contracted portions of the contract out. Most of the contracts were awarded to firms on Long Island.

So what did they actually prove that they could do when the experiments were over?

What they essentially proved they could do was that they could control a person that they had the "signature" for. This pattern that was unique to an individual could be put into the computer program for the transmitter. A second order wavelength would be transmitted that has a lower attenuation and affects that persons mind directly. There could be a command to do anything focused at the person. Once a device was constructed that illustrated this principle on a wide scale. A mental message was put out that if anybody heard the message they were to call a certain phone number. Over 600 calls came from all over the East coast all the way down to Florida. It works.

There is not only an individual signature. There's a racial signature and also a universal signal for the human race. The government has used all three to target specific individuals. They have also done group messages targeted on a specific racial or ethnic group. That's common. In Boston and New York they were doing experiments on "mood control" on the cities. Transmitters used no longer exist, but the technology does.

Do targeted individuals perceive what they are receiving as their own thought?

Yes.

Is there any defense against that?

Yes and no. Theoretically no. This is what the government depends on. Practically speaking, they can't get everyone, because some people are naturally resistant, depending on their level of mental and psychic development. Perhaps 5% of the population do not respond to these signals. If they get 95% coverage, they don't care about that 5%. That's what they have the riot squads and the concentration camps for. There is no defense unless you can interfere with that signal. Some people just don't react.

So they transmit a thought signal?

Not exactly. If you were put on an EEG, you would exhibit a certain pattern of electrical responses. These can be recorded and they are unique to you. It can be recorded and stored and replicated on a computer. If they can replicate your RNA/DNA pattern they've got you too - for life.

You mentioned about concentration camps?

Yes. They are all over the United States. There are three in Arizona alone.

So they can control us to the point where we'll just hand over our guns?

That's what they hope. It depends on how effective this equipment becomes, how thoroughly installed it is everywhere, and whether or not people can ferret this stuff out and render it inoperative before that time arrives.

How about the idea of a conflict between moral conscience and what the mental command tells you do to?

You don't have the option not to act as it says the way that equipment is set up - if you are not aware enough to make a connection that it is not your thought. It does not negate choice, it just puts in a strong impluse or command. Those people who responded by calling that number had no idea what went through their heads. Some of this does require preconditioning to a response pattern.

Could they be doing this over the media, like television and radio?

Of course.

You're suggesting a state of absoulte corruption.

Absolutely correct. Planned corruption.

With this kind of technology, why do they need concentration camps?

Because there are always people that are resistant.

[giovonni]

Thanks Bill


Because there are always people that are resistant.

That's because i always drink my cool aid with Stevia ... :)

[Limor Wolf]

-------

The briefest answer...

Why Are Americans So Apathetic?


Mass fluoridation (and probably also vaccines).
The deliberately planned microwave effects of smart meters (see the work of Barrie Trower).
Internet consumerism (the illusion that one is well-informed, but any actual action taken is zero apart from talking to one's friends who already know what you know).
Mass cultural behavioral modification conditioning via covert electronic mind control programs effects.


Re the last, is far more pervasive than anyone might ever want to believe"


This is very important. I posted this a few days ago on the twin thread:

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?72103-Do-Americans-deserve-the-Trouble-Flowing-their-way&p=843042&viewfull=1#post843042

Now, to the second half of the title..

Thank you, Bill ~

[giovonni]

... hmm ...

[GuyFox]

-------

The briefest answer...

Why Are Americans So Apathetic?
. . .

Yes. They are all over the United States. There are three in Arizona alone.

So they can control us to the point where we'll just hand over our guns?

That's what they hope. It depends on how effective this equipment becomes, how thoroughly installed it is everywhere, and whether or not people can ferret this stuff out and render it inoperative before that time arrives.

How about the idea of a conflict between moral conscience and what the mental command tells you do to?

You don't have the option not to act as it says the way that equipment is set up - if you are not aware enough to make a connection that it is not your thought. It does not negate choice, it just puts in a strong impluse or command. Those people who responded by calling that number had no idea what went through their heads. Some of this does require preconditioning to a response pattern.
.[/INDENT][/INDENT][/INDENT][/INDENT]

Good luck to them in mind controlling Me ... and You too Bill.

Do you think they can do it?
Project A cannot even get me to stick to "polite title threads" all of the time (haha)

[giovonni]

i suggest those that don't live in America (don't give it another thought) ...

From my research and perceptive this phenomena (syndrome) is a worldwide virus ...

And for those who carry that negative energy (and you know who you are) save it cos your going to need it to survive. :)

[giovonni]

will share this excellent conversation regarding the current (and past) American condition ... :thumb:

Psychedelics vs. Babylon and New America with Dennis Speed

"Psychedelic awakening in politics in Babylon the problem with Obama, government conspiracy and repudiating the debt structure is all discussed with Larouche contributor Dennis Speed. Banking. Kennedy, and Alexander Hamilton are all discussed as well as the impact of LSD on America are discussed, in the uncensored Buzzsaw interview with Sean Stone" ...

Published June 13, 2014


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=93FfB_ulzss

[gripreaper]

Thanks Bill


Because there are always people that are resistant.

That's because i always drink my Kool aid with Stevia ... :)

Haha! Now that's funny, I don't care who you are! Levity and irreverent humor can also break any microwave entrainment, and that's why I'm incorrigibly unentrainable!

[Bill Ryan]

-------

The briefest answer...

Why Are Americans So Apathetic?
. . .

Yes. They are all over the United States. There are three in Arizona alone.

So they can control us to the point where we'll just hand over our guns?

That's what they hope. It depends on how effective this equipment becomes, how thoroughly installed it is everywhere, and whether or not people can ferret this stuff out and render it inoperative before that time arrives.

How about the idea of a conflict between moral conscience and what the mental command tells you do to?

You don't have the option not to act as it says the way that equipment is set up - if you are not aware enough to make a connection that it is not your thought. It does not negate choice, it just puts in a strong impluse or command. Those people who responded by calling that number had no idea what went through their heads. Some of this does require preconditioning to a response pattern.
.[/INDENT][/INDENT][/INDENT][/INDENT]

Good luck to them in mind controlling Me ... and You too Bill.

Do you think they can do it?
Project A cannot even get me to stick to "polite title threads" all of the time (haha)


How do you know, for sure, that they're not controlling you to be impolite?

:)

[T Smith]

If you have a firm connection to Source in your conscious thoughts, these signals are not so effective. Perhaps that is the 5%...

I would guess this connection could also be used against you, if the programers ever learned to code Source

[Dorjezigzag]

With all this talk of being controlled by machines, It's time for some Gurdjieff, (January 13, 1866 – October 29, 1949)


Under the usual conditions, Gurdjieff bluntly informs us, we cannot know ourselves, for the simple reason that we are asleep. We are asleep, even when we imagine that we are awake. Man is a machine, Gurdjieff tells us, with characteristic unsentimentality, an automaton of reactions and reactions to the reactions. We imagine ourselves building, creating, moving alertly through the world: we are kidding ourselves.

We are, says Gurdjieff, lost in waking dreams and rigorously tracked neurotic fixations; when we think we are "doing" we are simply caught up in complex, fantasy- tinged reacting. We are asleep. We are not free.

“Progress” and “civilization” in the real meaning of those words, can appear only as the result of conscious efforts. They cannot appear as the result of unconscious efforts. And what conscious efforts can there be in machines? And if one machine is unconscious, then a hundred machines are unconscious, and so are a thousand machines, or a hundred thousand, or a million. And the unconscious activity of a million machines must necessarily result in destruction and extermination. You do not yet understand and cannot imagine all the results of this evil. But the time will come when you will understand.”
– G. Gurdjieff, quoted in “In Search of the Miraculous,” P. D. Ouspensky

[giovonni]

What ever reality one desires to subscribe to upon this plane, while utilizing an organic machine like mind... i suggest it is always best to navigate with one's intuitive heart ... In order for any real such progress to be made to an (entity's) ultimate destination. :)

[giovonni]

on the other hand ... i will also share this useful insight here ...

Max Igan

Surviving the Matrix

Freedom is a Choice

Published June 13, 2014


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zRaSEO27Zpw&feature=em-uploademail

[Limor Wolf]

Hi Giovonny ~ freedom is a choice, true, but we who understand it are mostly not here for ourself and ourself alone, our other human parts, seven billion in number are there, not quite aware yet, not understand and in trouble.

In that case, all the Gurdjieff in the world won't help. 'doing' is something we must when it comes to these types of technologies. It always comes with informing ourselves first, then tending to ourselves and applying gentleness and tenderness and deepening our connection to the soul and heart, then we let others know so they can make this choice as well.

Peace ~

Limor

[Dorjezigzag]

What ever reality one desires to subscribe to upon this plane, while utilizing an organic machine like mind... i suggest it is always best to navigate with one's intuitive heart ... In order for any real such progress to be made to an (entity's) ultimate destination. :)

Just as the mind, we should be sure that the heart is our own

http://justathoughtdevotionals.files.wordpress.com/2013/04/oz20.jpg

[giovonni]

What ever reality one desires to subscribe to upon this plane, while utilizing an organic machine like mind... i suggest it is always best to navigate with one's intuitive heart ... In order for any real such progress to be made to an (entity's) ultimate destination. :)

Just as the mind, we should be sure that the heart is our own

http://justathoughtdevotionals.files.wordpress.com/2013/04/oz20.jpg

no doubts here

[Dorjezigzag]

In that case, all the Gurdjieff in the world won't help

I can assure you if the technology exists and there is a 5% that are resistant, Gurdjieff would be in that 5%. He offers some extremely powerful techniques. If anyone has not already read In search of the miraculous I highly recommend it. Interestingly you can connect these teachings with the hermetic teachings that wind placed into the thread

Do not confuse heart with sentimentality, the heart strings are the most utilized means of manipulation, we need to be conscious of that.
Usually wars are sold on 'humanitarian' grounds

“For a man of Western culture, it is of course difficult to believe and accept the idea that an ignorant fakir, a naive monk, or a yogi who has retired from life may be on the way to evolution, while an educated European, armed with “exact knowledge” and all the latest methods of investigation, has no chance whatever and is moving in a circle from there is no escape….

– G. Gurdjieff, quoted in “In Search of the Miraculous,” P. D. Ouspensky

The power of changing oneself lies not in the mind, but in the body and the feelings. Unfortunately, however, our body and our feelings are so constituted that they don’t care a jot about anything so long as they are happy. They live for the moment and their memory is short. The mind alone lives for tomorrow. Each has its own merits. The merit of the mind is that it looks ahead. But it is only the other two that can "do."
– G. Gurdjieff

[Calz]

Remember that Pete Peterson suggested 15% had off-world dna such that they had a degree of immunity from current levels of mind control.


http://projectcamelotportal.com/component/k2/2661-pete-peterson


That has stuck with me from the time of his interview.

In my take on the attempt to "awaken the masses" ... sadly it is hard to discount.


Apathy among Americans?


How can anyone really deny???


This is not a slander against Americans in the least and there seems to be a great deal of conflict about that here.


Shall we blame the German civilians huddled in terror in their homes for what their government did during the last world war???


Shall we blame the American civilians for what has happened since then when they realisitically have had no voice???


Step back folks.


What is going on here???


Government puppets???


How did they get there and who do they serve???


Banksters ... getting warmer ... but who are they conjuring and who do they serve???


Multidimensionals???


What has been well established on this forum???


Loosh anyone???


Who completely has been controlling and creating fear and negative emotion (yummy) for how long ... do we know???


Sorry to ramble ... perhaps a few caveats to consider when demonizing Americans sitting in their homes wishing for only peace, prosperity and happiness for their lives and their families.


... you know ... just like all over the world ...


imho

[GuyFox]

Good luck to them in mind controlling Me ... and You too Bill.

Do you think they can do it?
Project A cannot even get me to stick to "polite title threads" all of the time (haha


How do you know, for sure, that they're not controlling you to be impolite?
:)

Yeah. I get it (haha)
Yet...
Insofar as I understand "their" agenda, I try to fight it.
And I work hard (as many others do) to grok what they are up to.

Yet there may be an even Bigger Picture:
kh8gOgK8oWk

If the bigger picture is that for the growth of our species, we need to be in the midst of a battle of Light and Darkness,
then, yes, maybe I am just playing my predetermined role... along with so many others.

[Calz]

Find the banksters ... find their interdimensional control ... take any angst in that direction.

(small problem there is that "feeds" them ...)


Try to find understanding among so many brothers and sisters amonst all nations that are quite removed from that.


Really people ... what is so hard to grasp there???

[Pam]

I have found this thread really thought provoking. There have been a lot of explanations regarding the well beings of US citizens and there ability to pull out of a apathetic state due to the many toxins that are thrown our way. I don't disagree with this at all. However, I would like to throw this out there for discussion: Why are so many able to muster up enthusiasm, in fact religious zeal and devotion for sports teams? I am fully aware that it is a diversion, and god knows I can't blame them for it ,but, it does show that there is the mental ability to slough off apathy if the incentive is worth while. Does anyone have an opinion on this?

[Calz]

Hey brothers and sisters ...

Stand down and try to understand we are one.


Is that truly so hard to grasp???


Why???

dQdyEw6jfGQ

[giovonni]

I have found this thread really thought provoking. There have been a lot of explanations regarding the well beings of US citizens and there ability to pull out of a apathetic state due to the many toxins that are thrown our way. I don't disagree with this at all. However, I would like to throw this out there for discussion: Why are so many able to muster up enthusiasm, in fact religious zeal and devotion for sports teams? I am fully aware that it is a diversion, and god knows I can't blame them for it ,but, it does show that there is the mental ability to slough off apathy if the incentive is worth while. Does anyone have an opinion on this?

Good point ... look how the current World Cup situation is being played out, with it's diversionary energy draining effects ...

Myself included. :(

[Dorjezigzag]

I have found this thread really thought provoking. There have been a lot of explanations regarding the well beings of US citizens and there ability to pull out of a apathetic state due to the many toxins that are thrown our way. I don't disagree with this at all. However, I would like to throw this out there for discussion: Why are so many able to muster up enthusiasm, in fact religious zeal and devotion for sports teams? I am fully aware that it is a diversion, and god knows I can't blame them for it ,but, it does show that there is the mental ability to slough off apathy if the incentive is worth while. Does anyone have an opinion on this?
http://oclasm.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/Bread_And_Circuses-sm.jpg

[Pam]

Hey brothers and sisters ...

Stand down and try to understand we are one.




With sincere love and respect,
Pam


Is that truly so hard to grasp???


Why???

dQdyEw6jfGQ




No my dear Catz it is not a hard concept to grasp. On an intellectual basis it is becoming clearer and clearer. On rare occasions, usually when I am out in nature, I can really feel it in my heart. But alas, the friggin mind and ego take over and here I am on a thread debating about apathy........

With sincere love and respect,
Pam

[giovonni]

Note ~ when i first posted the OP, i should of included a request for keeping to topic without provoking each other here ...

Especially towards my fellow Americans which includes Canada and Mexico as a whole ...

We have enough on our daily plates in dealing with our governments.

[giovonni]

will share this here ... http://www.skype-emoticons.com/images/emoticon-00136-giggle.gif

No More Buying Stuff . .. Love Is The Answer ...

(Matthew Silver) (http://www.maninwhitedress.com/)
"Is a man who runs around NYC in a dress or underwear saying and doing radical things" ...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ULLbBaU3NDM

[Hervé]

[...]

How do you know, for sure, that they're not controlling you to be impolite?

:)... seems like that bug has been going around :)

"Orchestrated Mindlessness (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?71935-Well-I-Too-Am-Tired-Of-This-F-cking-Sh-t-&p=840528&viewfull=1#post840528)"... where the current thought-control EM waves need only to tap/trigger one of those pairs to wreck their usual havoc...keeping in mind that "magnetic-wise," similar poles repel each other (as in North-North or South-South poles of a magnet) but, man! Do they they ever get stuck to each other when of opposite polarities!

[MargueriteBee]

Never give up. I have family that laughed at me a few years ago that are now awake and hoarding food.

[giovonni]

Never give up. I have family that laughed at me a few years ago that are now awake and hoarding food.

Greetings my Friend

Give me a Call ... http://www.skype-emoticons.com/images/emoticon-00144-nod.gif

[dianna]

http://aspecks.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/apathy.jpg


Others apart sat on a hill retired,
In thoughts more elevate, and reasoned high
Of Providence, Foreknowledge, Will, and Fate--
Fixed fate, free will, foreknowledge absolute,
And found no end, in wandering mazes lost.
Of good and evil much they argued then,
Of happiness and final misery,
Passion and apathy, and glory and shame:
Vain wisdom all, and false philosophy!

Paradise Lost, Book II

[MargueriteBee]

Never give up. I have family that laughed at me a few years ago that are now awake and hoarding food.

Greetings my Friend

Give me a Call ... http://www.skype-emoticons.com/images/emoticon-00144-nod.gif

When I get back from my four mile walk I will.

[giovonni]

Via Freeman Fly

Propaganda Mind Control - Do Tou Want To Know The Truth ?

Larken Rose (http://www.larkenrose.com/) - FYM2

Published June 14, 2014


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4AIpqGhKFxQ&feature=em-uploademail

[onawah]

I was just thinking about this today, myself.
I wonder if spectator sports would even exist in a culture where everyone is physically active.
It may be that they are popular in part because so many people in modern societies simply don't get enough exercise, and spectating is a way to get a kind of vicarious feeling of participation, without actually having to work up a sweat.
But there are many reasons--it is certainly a way to vent, to escape, to be distracted and to tune into all the things that we are taught to suppress, and a way to feel part of a bigger whole (ie a crowd).
Perhaps people need to stay in touch with those more primitive impulses to some extent, at least, without actually being taken over by them.

I have found this thread really thought provoking. There have been a lot of explanations regarding the well beings of US citizens and there ability to pull out of a apathetic state due to the many toxins that are thrown our way. I don't disagree with this at all. However, I would like to throw this out there for discussion: Why are so many able to muster up enthusiasm, in fact religious zeal and devotion for sports teams? I am fully aware that it is a diversion, and god knows I can't blame them for it ,but, it does show that there is the mental ability to slough off apathy if the incentive is worth while. Does anyone have an opinion on this?

[Milneman]

I will take the high road and ignore your PRINCESS DIG. This is a world problem. The Americans have many faults that are not shared with other countries. IMO, Apathy is not one of them. Going around name calling gets you nowhere.

Thus, you have proved my point.

I thank you.

¤=[Post Update]=¤


Milneman my Friend ...

While sharing your perspectives on this issue are your prerogative on this thread ...

Your comments and condescending nature are beneath the true spirit of an Avalon member ...

Everyone on the board is entitled to have a bad day as such ... Here's hoping yours improves.

:cheers:

Gio

Clearly, you're missing the point. Re-read what I wrote, without bias assuming that I am either condescending or not.

It seems to me that the responses so far are actually backing up what I'm saying! So thank you for that!

Hope you're having as swell a day as I am! ;)

[giovonni]

Thanks ...

Started off a bit rocky, but two excellent connects with friends and family this afternoon ...

i am very grateful for my present life ... :)

Blessings Gio

[giovonni]

http://aspecks.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/apathy.jpg


Others apart sat on a hill retired,
In thoughts more elevate, and reasoned high
Of Providence, Foreknowledge, Will, and Fate--
Fixed fate, free will, foreknowledge absolute,
And found no end, in wandering mazes lost.
Of good and evil much they argued then,
Of happiness and final misery,
Passion and apathy, and glory and shame:
Vain wisdom all, and false philosophy!

Paradise Lost, Book II



http://www.usobserver.com/archive/june-11/images/COM-apathy-20th_Century.jpg

Apathy in America Today (http://www.usobserver.com/archive/june-11/apathy-in-america.html)


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m50p-XScreM

[RunningDeer]

In that case, all the Gurdjieff in the world won't help

I can assure you if the technology exists and there is a 5% that are resistant, Gurdjieff would be in that 5%. He offers some extremely powerful techniques. If anyone has not already read In search of the miraculous I highly recommend it. Interestingly you can connect these teachings with the hermetic teachings that wind placed into the thread

Do not confuse heart with sentimentality, the heart strings are the most utilized means of manipulation, we need to be conscious of that.
Usually wars are sold on 'humanitarian' grounds

“For a man of Western culture, it is of course difficult to believe and accept the idea that an ignorant fakir, a naive monk, or a yogi who has retired from life may be on the way to evolution, while an educated European, armed with “exact knowledge” and all the latest methods of investigation, has no chance whatever and is moving in a circle from there is no escape….

– G. Gurdjieff, quoted in “In Search of the Miraculous,” P. D. Ouspensky

The power of changing oneself lies not in the mind, but in the body and the feelings. Unfortunately, however, our body and our feelings are so constituted that they don’t care a jot about anything so long as they are happy. They live for the moment and their memory is short. The mind alone lives for tomorrow. Each has its own merits. The merit of the mind is that it looks ahead. But it is only the other two that can "do."
– G. Gurdjieff

Free pdf - “In Search of the Miraculous (http://www.gurdjieff.am/in-search/index.pdf),” by P.D. Ouspensky

[dianna]

http://www.usobserver.com/archive/june-11/images/COM-apathy-20th_Century.jpg

Apathy in America Today (http://www.usobserver.com/archive/june-11/apathy-in-america.html)

Best part of the article:

http://www.usobserver.com/archive/june-11/images/COM-Apathy2.jpg


Engineered apathetic response is obviously the goal of a government seeking to disengage its constituents, and is designed to lull us citizens into a state of false security. Electronic media, the entertainment industry, professional sports, video gaming, and casino gambling are just a few diversions that serve not only to provide a means of physical and mental escape from the stressors we face as a nation, but also to create an illusion that “life is good,” “things are normal” and that “all is well”. More so now than ever before, Americans per capita are spending more of their dwindling financial resources on the aforementioned activities and in the mean time, the world around them continues to crumble at close to free-fall speed. Julius Caesar would be the unnamed author of the quote I had shared in the previous paragraph (with “Caesar” filling in the blanks) and we all know what happened to the once erstwhile Roman Empire that he had been given watch over. Caesar would most likely feel honored (yet perhapsperplexed) to see that the U.S.A. has chosen to very closely adopt Rome’s template of political ideology. Rome’s Emperors were masters at creating apathy amongst their citizens, and they knew right where to aim to get the job done most effectively. With the official encouragement of gluttony, abundant drink and entertainment, the average “blinded” Roman citizen knew very little of what direction the nation was headed until it was far too late. Rome was crumbling from the inside-out and had been for a long while before going-up in flames, as corruption and greed had destroyed the very fabric of what had once made it the most formidable country on the planet. Ultimately, their empire building efforts took a huge toll on its economy and the loss of Roman life was immeasurable which all lead to its ultimate demise. Do we see any similarities between Rome and the U.S. here?

[AriG]

-------

The briefest answer...

Why Are Americans So Apathetic?

http://www.whale.to/b/orion.html

So they transmit a thought signal?

Not exactly. If you were put on an EEG, you would exhibit a certain pattern of electrical responses. These can be recorded and they are unique to you. It can be recorded and stored and replicated on a computer. If they can replicate your RNA/DNA pattern they've got you too - for life.

They can replicate our RNA/DNA.

[Hervé]

The Lancet: Fluoride IS a Neurotoxin! (http://www.activistpost.com/2014/06/the-lancet-fluoride-is-neurotoxin.html)



http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-fVj7cP0ztDQ/U5uBlzTk_uI/AAAAAAAAc_U/z76yL_KAhZs/s1600/FluorideDees11.jpg (http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-fVj7cP0ztDQ/U5uBlzTk_uI/AAAAAAAAc_U/z76yL_KAhZs/s1600/FluorideDees11.jpg)


Dees Illustration (http://www.dees2.com/) Catherine J. Frompovich

Activist Post (http://www.activistpost.com/2014/06/the-lancet-fluoride-is-neurotoxin.html)

Who would have thought that it ever would have happened? Someone in mainstream medicine and peer reviewed literature and journals would publish the ‘unthinkable’: fluoride, the stuff they put into municipal water supplies supposedly to ‘protect’ teeth from cavities, is a neurotoxin. Wow! And congratulations to doctors Philippe Grandjean, MD, and Philip J Landrigan, MD, two researchers who published their findings in The Lancet Neurology, Volume 13, Issue 3, Pages 330 to 338, March 2014. [1]

In the Summary published for their article, it states that
Neurodevelopmental disabilities, including autism, attention-deficit hyperactivity disorder, dyslexia, and other cognitive impairments, affect millions of children worldwide, and some diagnoses seem to be increasing in frequency. [CJF emphasis added] Probably nothing more can confirm that as scientific, demographic, and the horrible truth! And, everyone—not just children—are paying the consequences for all chemical exposures. Now let’s see if Drs. Granjean and Landrigan will have the scientific integrity to expose neurotoxins in vaccines for what they truly are. I’d like to give them a reference where to start looking for ideas: My 2013 book Vaccination Voodoo, What YOU Don’t Know About Vaccines (http://www.amazon.com/Vaccination-Voodoo-What-About-Vaccines/dp/1484923820/ref=as_li_tf_sw?&linkCode=wsw&tag=permacultucom-20), available on Amazon.com.

In that book I also mention fluoride. Why? Because what is not documented by peer reviewed ‘science’ journals is the chemical interaction(s) between fluoride and vaccine neurotoxins and other vaccine chemicals. Add to that list, the chemicals we are forced to eat in our food, especially glyphosate from inordinate spraying of genetically modified crops such as corn, sugar beets, soy, canola, alfalfa animal feed, and possibly squash and potatoes.

Add to that all the herbicides, fungicides, pesticides, etc. that are sprayed on fruits, vegetables, and animal feeds that get into the food chain BIG time. For more information about those “…cides,” which are intended to kill life forms, readers and both doctors may want to read my 2010 book Our Chemical Lives And The Hijacking Of Our DNA, A Probe Into What’s Probably Making Us Sick (http://www.amazon.com/Our-Chemical-Lives-And-Hijacking/dp/1439255369/ref=as_li_tf_sw?&linkCode=wsw&tag=permacultucom-20), also available on Amazon.com.

Any chemical whose purpose is to kill a life form must be considered as a neurotoxin, endocrine disruptor, or carcinogen – at a minimum – in my opinion as a consumer health researcher for almost 37 years.

Not to digress from the importance of this article about fluoride, but the USA can put a nation back to work by cleaning up the environment from toxicity once the chemical and pharmaceutical industries are exposed for what they truly are: Biohazards!

Here’s a short YouTube regarding fluoridation of water in other countries.


SBnu76__LZE

According to the British Fluoridation Society as of November 2012 [2], the following countries fluoridate portions of their population:


http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-OUvttJn2uZA/U5uBWKN47eI/AAAAAAAAc_M/WEcsIx-sGpU/s1600/country_list.png (http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-OUvttJn2uZA/U5uBWKN47eI/AAAAAAAAc_M/WEcsIx-sGpU/s1600/country_list.png)

So, what has the addition of fluoride to municipal water supplies done for human health? Not very much, except cause health problems [3], including:


A Harvard study shows that fluoride lowers IQ in children. [4] [6]
Crippling bone disease, i.e., skeletal fluorosis [5]
Severe dental fluorosis, instead of protecting teeth. If you don’t know what that looks like, here’s a file showing dental fluorosis (https://www.google.com/search?q=severe+dental+fluorosis&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=31KbU4CnMfbNsQTy1YCQAQ&sqi=2&ved=0CBwQsAQ&biw=993&bih=550).

One would think with the publication in 2010 that kid’s IQs are adversely and negatively impacted, federal, state and city governments would have stopped municipal water fluoridation immediately. No! they have not, and it’s now 2014. Does that mean that water fluoridation has a purpose which is not being acknowledged? Could it be the deliberate dumbing-down of the U.S. population? Or, could it be to make more business for dentists, doctors, and the pharmaceutical industry? What do you think?


Notes:
[1] http://www.thelancet.com/journals/laneur/article/PIIS1474-4422(13)70278-3/fulltext#article_upsell (http://www.thelancet.com/journals/laneur/article/PIIS1474-4422%2813%2970278-3/fulltext#article_upsell)

[2] http://fluoridealert.org/content/bfs-2012/

[3] http://fluoridealert.org/issues/health/

[4] http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2012/08/07/effects-of-fluoride-to-children.aspx

[5] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skeletal_fluorosis

[6] http://ehp.niehs.nih.gov/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/ehp.1104912.pdf


Resource:
Dr. Rima Truth Reports / Fluoride Facts and Myths
http://drrimatruthreports.com/fluoride-facts-and-myths/

Catherine J Frompovich (website (http://www.catherinejfrompovich.com/)) is a retired natural nutritionist who earned advanced degrees in Nutrition and Holistic Health Sciences, Certification in Orthomolecular Theory and Practice plus Paralegal Studies. Her work has been published in national and airline magazines since the early 1980s. Catherine authored numerous books on health issues along with co-authoring papers and monographs with physicians, nurses, and holistic healthcare professionals. She has been a consumer healthcare researcher 35 years and counting.

[RunningDeer]

Wished I hadn’t, but glad I did. I spent a good chunk of the morning listening to Linda Moulton Howe's “Big Picture,” Linda Moulton Howe & “Propaganda Mind Control,” by Larken Rose.

To balance out, I worked out, and then went for a walk. My intention was to figure out what to do with this information. Instead, I stayed present and visited with everyone and every thing that came onto my path.

There’s a part of me that’s been stirred. And another part of me where I caught myself saying, “What’s the point?” And still another that said, “Stay the course. Keep on keeping.”

DualityLand. One of these day, I’m going to have to get serious about the stretch beyond, while I stay grounded. "Now is that still duality? Or will it be this soul living in a larger tuna can?, " she asked herself.

<3


kh8gOgK8oWk

4AIpqGhKFxQ

[giovonni]

will share this here ...


ForbiddenKnowledgeTV
Alexandra Bruce
June 15, 2014

FOUR HORSEMEN

Is an award winning independent feature documentary which lifts the lid on how the world really works.

23 international thinkers, government advisors and Wall Street money-men break their silence and explain how to establish a moral and just society.

FOUR HORSEMEN ignites the debate about how to usher a new economic paradigm into the world, which would dramatically improve the quality of life for billions.

Published Sept. 13, 2013


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5fbvquHSPJU

[GuyFox]

Wished I hadn’t, but glad I did. I spent a good chunk of the morning listening to Linda Moulton Howe's “Big Picture,” Linda Moulton Howe & “Propaganda Mind Control,” by Larken Rose.

To balance out, I worked out, and then went for a walk. My intention was to figure out what to do with this information. Instead, I stayed present and visited with everyone and every thing (trees, bug, birds) that came onto my path.

There’s a part of me that’s been stirred. And another part of me where I caught myself saying, “What’s the point?” And still another that said, “Stay the course. Keep on keeping.”

DualityLand. One of these day, I’m going to have to get serious about the stretch beyond, while I stay grounded. "Now is that still duality? Or will it be this soul living in a larger tuna can?, " she asked herself.

<3


kh8gOgK8oWk


Thanks for your comment, Running Deer.
That LMH Video, about here Big Picture, is both Deep and Mind-blowing,
and on a topic (The ET Agenda) that interests me greatly.

You comment reminded me that I have been planning to start a thread, to discuss it.
So here it is:
http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?72253-Linda-Moulton-Howe-s-Revealing-Big-Picture

Comments welcome - Let's figure it out together!

[Dennis Leahy]

Aha ... ;)

i believe these two forum members post articulate and sum up the current situation within the United States ... And quite so perhaps for all of humans living within the current dying paradigm ... whether awoke or asleep ...

Lifted from another current forum Thread ...

First from Curt


Most Americans know something is wrong but don't have the knowledge, the resources or the time to figure out that we've been hijacked by a faceless cabal of global oligarchs who literally want most of us dead...

...

Our government is abysmally corrupt...

...

We've been targeted. We've been taken out. We're mob-hit victims bleeding in the street.

We don't have much time to consider how it got this way because we're trying to stay alive.

...



And finally from Kevin (the gripreaper)


I want to answer the question in the OP, within the overall context of the United States and it’s people.

...

The corporatocracy is NOT United States specific, but it is global is scope, and couching the debate as nationalistic misses the point and focuses on the citizens of the United States rather than the true culprits of the demise.

The demise of modern western societies is NOT United States specific, ...

...

Nothing happens by accident and the populace has nothing to say about it and how their futures are to be guided until we lose the nationalistic blame game and stand as one human species all around the world and realize the problem is global, and not national. The elite have NO nationalistic tendencies or proclivities, and we should not either.

...

I confess to having not read all of the replies to this thread - yet - but have read maybe half or more. I think the question of why Americans are apathetic have been addressed, but not the 'what can be done about it' part of the OP's question.

If the suggestion that there is literally widespread electronic mind control in play, well then, my suggestions are moot, and someone with a White Hat would have to pull the plug for us to see change. I certainly believe that even if the brain entrainment/programmed response technology is not in widespread use, then at least there is an underlying programming taking place, not too terribly unlike the movie "They Live", with mass corporate media sending self-serving mass messages to "obey", "conform", and "buy your way to happiness."

Before specifically researching for The Reset Button document, a major mental exercise was in deciding at what level action was going to be most effective. The ends of the spectrum are utterly local and utterly global (I'm not going further that global - I'll leave exopolitics to others, unless and until I am personally involved with ETs and can offer something from that perspective.)

At the utterly local end of the spectrum, it is believed that by personally disengaging from The Matrix as much as possible, becoming entirely self-sufficient, and feeding The Corporate Matrix as little as possible (starving them), that this action - widely adopted - would collapse the hierarchical control mechanism. I strongly disagree with the purported outcome of this action, and though I embrace the action 100% for the good that it does do, and for putting us in a position to take effective action. If this action is the only action taken, the killer drones will still fly and their missiles will still be unleashed of the innocent, imperialism will continue unabated, US prison populations will continue to rise, and the global pyramid will be unaffected. Besides, your little 5 acre piece of heaven can be appropriated from you by the State in a heartbeat, whether by raising property taxes or by condemnation or by imminent domain, or some other reason they make up as they go.

At the global end of the spectrum, we are too "thin" and too disorganized to be effective in unified, concerted action, and most likely we would fail, dissipating our collective energy. Kinda the way "Occupy" failed to effect change worldwide. That is not to say the problem is not global - it is - it is just thinking as a strategist and deciding where the energy would be most effective.

Though there are certainly local, regional, and state/provincial laws and ordinances that are tyrannical, there is usually some capability of effective citizen-powered action. This is not true in the US at the federal level, where citizens are 100% ineffective, ignored or placated with platitudes. From what I can tell, this problem is globally pervasive, not just the US. That is, your country's highest level of government is totally corrupt and totally OUT of any control by citizens. Worse, if you are living under the same paradigm as US citizens, your electoral process is designed and maintained to make sure that ordinary citizens (disconnected from corporatocracy) never can gain enough political power to effect major change to the status quo.

So, it's a global problem that we are not united or powerful enough to solve globally, and local action is ineffective against it. The proper strategic vector falls between those extremes.

In the US, because of the way the Constitution is written (more as a coalition of independent States, kinda like the EU), that some believe that the correct vector in the US is citizens gaining control over individual States. While this might possibly create what appears to be individual "safe haven" States, it still does not really address the tyrannical, imperialistic, corrupt global action taken by the US federal government. I, for one, am unable to turn my head the other way and declare myself personally victorious for fomenting a regional/provincial/state "solution" while ignoring/acquiescing to the atrocities committed by the US Federal Global Corporate Government, planet-wide.

That leaves the federal government as the vector of citizen's critical action. Since US citizens have 0% control over their federal government, and the "democratic process" of voting at the federal level is simply picking between 2 corporate/Elite-aligned puppets to continue the charade, I believe this systemic hopelessness is the major psychological factor in US citizens apathy.

The research that became The Reset Button started there. It was designed to address the problem of US citizens having 0% control over our (federal-level) governance, as well as domestic and foreign policy - and to reverse it to a place where ordinary (non-corporate-aligned) citizens have 100% of the control.

If citizens in each country foment a "Reset Button" type strategy, taking control of their federal government, we have a global movement.

Dennis

[giovonni]

If citizens in each country foment a "Reset Button" type strategy, taking control of their federal government, we have a global movement.

Dennis

Thanks Dennis ... :thumb:
And speaking of "Reset Button" (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?44014-The-Reset-Button-Movement)

[RunningDeer]

will share this here ...


ForbiddenKnowledgeTV
Alexandra Bruce
June 15, 2014

FOUR HORSEMEN

Is an award winning independent feature documentary which lifts the lid on how the world really works.

23 international thinkers, government advisors and Wall Street money-men break their silence and explain how to establish a moral and just society.

FOUR HORSEMEN ignites the debate about how to usher a new economic paradigm into the world, which would dramatically improve the quality of life for billions.

Published Sept. 13, 2013



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5fbvquHSPJU

The Four Horsemen Q & A


Is blaming the baby-boomers divisive? @ 1:05 (http://youtu.be/cS4CfHdXclM?t=1m5s)

What are your thoughts on the current crop of Western politicians? @ 2:08 (http://youtu.be/cS4CfHdXclM?t=2m8s)

Aren’t you just envious of those bankers and politicians who are making a lot of money? @ 3:06 (http://youtu.be/cS4CfHdXclM?t=3m6s)

Do you think we should return to the gold standard? @ 3:45 (http://youtu.be/cS4CfHdXclM?t=3m45s)

What can we do on an individual basis? @ 4:52 (http://youtu.be/cS4CfHdXclM?t=4m52s)

I’m just one person in billions. I cannot do anything… @ 5:36 (http://youtu.be/cS4CfHdXclM?t=5m36s)

Why didn’t you include the rise of China and other BRIC countries in the film? @ 6:52 (http://youtu.be/cS4CfHdXclM?t=6m52s)

What can a small country do - are we not too tiny to affect things? @ 7:38 (http://youtu.be/cS4CfHdXclM?t=7m37s)

Are you worried about the threat of internet censorship? @ 8:24 (http://youtu.be/cS4CfHdXclM?t=8m24s)

Why are you so against neo-classical economic ideology? @ 9:32 (http://youtu.be/cS4CfHdXclM?t=9m32s)

Why is there no opposing voice in the film defending current arrangements? @ 12:10 (http://youtu.be/cS4CfHdXclM?t=12m10s)

Are you optimistic? - @ 12:33 (http://youtu.be/cS4CfHdXclM?t=12m33s)

What will you do next? @ 13:47 (http://youtu.be/cS4CfHdXclM?t=13m47s)




cS4CfHdXclM

[GuyFox]

Hey, that's great, Running Deer (and Giovanni)

I hadn't seen it before.
I lived in the UK for a long times - so nearly all the voices are familiar to me.

The film-maker, I know.
And the narrator, Dominic Frisby, is a good friend.

I think I should start a thread:
http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?72275-The-Four-Horsemen-Money-and-Greed-Can-we-do-better

so you can hear more from Mr Frisby, who is mostly busy as a writer,
a profession he inherited from his father, Terrence, a famous playwright.

[Kelly Anne]

Aha ... ;)

i believe these two forum members post articulate and sum up the current situation within the United States ... And quite so perhaps for all of humans living within the current dying paradigm ... whether awoke or asleep ...

Lifted from another current forum Thread ...

First from Curt


Most Americans know something is wrong but don't have the knowledge, the resources or the time to figure out that we've been hijacked by a faceless cabal of global oligarchs who literally want most of us dead...

In fairness, this is a hard reality to face when you've grown up on a steady diet of Mickey Mouse... and stories about the glory days of Washington, Lincoln, and FDR.

The truth is we face an assault on all sides. Our dollar is being devalued. Our minds are being harassed and controlled; our bodies are being poisoned, fattened and sterilized.

Our media is the most wretched outside of state TV in China. Our education system is abhorrent. 90% of us don't know the difference between socialism and democracy, much less democracy and a republic.

We're being fluoridated and dosed with heavy metals and toxins and fed genetically altered frankenfood.

We pay $2000 to go to the dentist for a root canal (after insurance).

It costs 75K to get an undergraduate degree. A huge proportion of Americans have to borrow money each month just to pay the interest on credit debt (which was itself accrued to pay for living expenses)...and our real wages haven't gone up since the 70's.

We have vast unemployment, and underemployment, just like Europe, except with virtually no safety net. Those who have good paying jobs are taxed at asinine levels, which is odd because we don't really receive anything in return for this money as our infrastructure is caving in all around us.

And we don't get vacations, or reasonable amounts of sick time, or reasonable family leave when we have children. And any health concern greater than tonsillitis will very often result in personal bankruptcy.

Our government is abysmally corrupt... like third world banana republic corrupt. We have the biggest inequity in wealth of any country in the world.

We've been targeted. We've been taken out. We're mob-hit victims bleeding in the street.

We don't have much time to consider how it got this way because we're trying to stay alive.

So cut us, and yourself, some slack. :thumb:



And finally from Kevin (the gripreaper)


I want to answer the question in the OP, within the overall context of the United States and it’s people.

Our forefathers braved the oceans and came to this continent to escape tyranny and oppression, the divisiveness and control which has existed on this planet for eons, not specific to the United States. Remember, this country is only a little over 200 years old, and from the very beginning, the founding fathers were a mixed bag of elitists with ties to the crown, died in the wool freemasons, hell bent on making this country an agent of the Vatican and the banksters, while the rest of the delegates did want freedom and liberty.

This battle raged on for the first century, when the banksters finally gained their foothold, through wars and debt. Once the 1913 Federal Reserve Act was passed, the banksters had control. The United States has been under a military state of emergency since the mid 1800’s, all citizens were made wards of the state, chattel for the bankruptcy, and the globalist banksters have controlled all aspects of industry, education, government, media, and religion ever since.

To say that US citizens are rampantly consumerist misses the point, considering that the debt based fiat monetary system is designed to cannibalize resources through imperialistic expansion and slavery. After the great depression of the 1930’s, where money per capita in circulation was reduced to about 3 dollars per person, it became almost impossible to survive and function until Roosevelt gave us the New Deal under social security, and other entitlements. We were sold a bill of goods in exchange for our labor “in perpetuity” to the banksters.

The main reason the United States was ALLOWED to prosper so extensively in the last 70 years since then, is because the elite needed an educated work force to back engineer the stellar technology and to implement their covert black op’s agendas within a rapid timeline, based on a perceived threat and the need to bring the planet up to speed with other off world technology.

Consider taking about 100 million people with a gross GDP of about 3.5 trillion a year at the turn of the last century, to 300 million people and a GDP of 17 trillion a year today. This happened because it was engineered to happen, a collateral side effect being consumerism. Although it appears that US citizens are spoiled and have wealth, none of us own anything or hold allodial fee simple title to any tangible assets, and none of the fiat currency we hold in savings has any intrinsic value.

We have been duped, lied to, covertly and overtly manipulated, and used to create the most massive underground economy and technology known to this planet, providing the globalists with the largest mercenary military force for their colonialistic imperialism to rape and pillage the entire planet. The corporatocracy is NOT United States specific, but it is global is scope, and couching the debate as nationalistic misses the point and focuses on the citizens of the United States rather than the true culprits of the demise.

The demise of modern western societies is NOT United States specific, and neither is the imminent transformation taking place. It is engineered globally, is a global phenomenon, and affects all of us globally, and is slated to come to a town near you, if it hasn’t already.

The expansion of the United States was engineered, and so is the collapse of the United States an engineered phenomenon. Nothing happens by accident and the populace has nothing to say about it and how their futures are to be guided until we lose the nationalistic blame game and stand as one human species all around the world and realize the problem is global, and not national. The elite have NO nationalistic tendencies or proclivities, and we should not either.

Most people in the United States are good people, just like the people in Iraq and Syria, or Israel or Russia. They are just like you and me, and are awakening to the globalist agenda more and more each day. If you want to know what you can do about it, go outside and talk to your next door neighbor about the globalist agenda. Keep studying and learning and sharing, and doing what you can to NO LONGER support the globalist corporatocracy. ALL OF US are in the same boat. We each need to do our part to starve the beast and awaken our neighbors.

Creating divisiveness and pointing the finger at US citizens is part of the divisive agenda, the same agenda the elite use. The United States does not deserve the trouble flowing their way any more than any other nation. Let us rise above and take the higher ground, and work on what unites us all and not focus on any one segment of humanity and how they are different, or what they deserve or don't deserve.

The very word "deserve" implies an agenda, meting out rewards or punishment based on behavior, or a set of relativistic values and morals, decided by whom? Who deserves to be at the top of the power pyramid, and who deserves to be at the bottom? We need to move away from the pyramidal power structures of the last several millennium, with the elite at the top an all of us at the bottom, and the corporations and banks in the middle.

I think all of us are sick of war and debt, aren't we?

Ah!

The article fits into what is happening with Americans trying and getting pushed around as is one of the points brought up in this thread and a few others:

http://metrotimes.com/covers/nipped-in-the-bud-1.1700736

[gripreaper]

That leaves the federal government as the vector of citizen's critical action. Dennis

You know, I've tried to wrap my head around this idea, but until we get the actual context of what we are dealing with, I can't get past the fact that we are no longer a sovereign nation, that we are under the control of the United Nations, that we have no say in any of the policies which are administered through the bankrupt entity which has abrogated all sovereignty, has pledged us all as chattel, has hypoticated all tangibles, has rendered us mute and wards of the state, under a military state of emergency, AND NOTHING is like it seems.

Please avail yourselves of this half hour mp3 by Rod Class to get a bare bones context of what we are dealing with. THEN I want to hear your ideas.

http://recordings.talkshoe.com/TC-48361/TS-870984.mp3

[giovonni]

hmm ...

i am not a conspiracy theorist but ... :rolleyes:



http://fellowshipofminds.files.wordpress.com/2014/06/un-trucks.jpg?w=500

"A man driving on a freeway coming out of Alabama in southern Georgia took this video of at least two flat-back trucks, each carrying two brand-new white armored cars bearing the letters “UN” in black."

"One sharp-eyed reader on YouTube observed that the vehicles “appear to have M231 port firing weapon ports on them.”

Published June 15, 2014


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WrfTyda8ZYs

"The United States is a sovereign country, not under the UN’s jurisdiction. There can be NO legitimate reason why armored trucks of the United Nations should be on American soil, unless the UN vehicles had been manufactured here and are being transported by truck to a port for shipping overseas.

But the “Made in Alabama” website’s page on “Alabama auto family: A look at the models produced in the state” (http://www.madeinalabama.com/2013/10/alabama-auto-family/) does not include armored trucks as a model that’s manufactured in Alabama, nor does it make mention of doing any manufacturing for the United Nations. When I ran a search for “armored vehicles” on the “Made in Alabama” website, the only thing that came up is an armored version of the Mercedes-Benz M-Class that looks nothing like the UN armored cars"...

http://fellowshipofminds.files.wordpress.com/2014/06/armored-mercedes-benz.jpg?w=750&h=195

"What I find perhaps even more interesting is the fact that the two trucks carrying the UN armored vehicles have no lettering on them indicating their company’s name. The trucks are also painted UN blue."

http://fellowshipofminds.files.wordpress.com/2014/06/truck-carrying-un-armored-cars1.jpg?w=750&h=554

http://fellowshipofminds.files.wordpress.com/2014/06/un-blue-helmets.jpg?w=750&h=501

H/t Activist Post (http://www.activistpost.com/2014/06/armored-un-trucks-filmed-moving-through.html)



source (http://fellowshipoftheminds.com/category/united-states/us-presidents-united-states/)

[gripreaper]

The United States is a sovereign country, not under the UN’s jurisdiction. There can be NO legitimate reason why armored trucks of the United Nations should be on American soil

NO THE UNITED STATES IS NOT A SOVEREIGN COUNTRY. IT IS UNDER UN JURISDICTION! Until we understand our own history, and realize what has happened since the mid 1800's, WE CAN'T CHANGE IT!

http://recordings.talkshoe.com/TC-48361/TS-870984.mp3

[giovonni]

no the united states is not a sovereign country. It is under un jurisdiction! Until we understand our own history, and realize what has happened since the mid 1800's, we can't change it!

Bingo !!! !!!

[giovonni]

BLUE DAWN


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nGoe7BdGdlg

[Dennis Leahy]

That leaves the federal government as the vector of citizen's critical action. Dennis

You know, I've tried to wrap my head around this idea, but until we get the actual context of what we are dealing with, I can't get past the fact that we are no longer a sovereign nation, that we are under the control of the United Nations, that we have no say in any of the policies which are administered through the bankrupt entity which has abrogated all sovereignty, has pledged us all as chattel, has hypoticated all tangibles, has rendered us mute and wards of the state, under a military state of emergency, AND NOTHING is like it seems.

Please avail yourselves of this half hour mp3 by Rod Class to get a bare bones context of what we are dealing with. THEN I want to hear your ideas.

http://recordings.talkshoe.com/TC-48361/TS-870984.mp3
US citizens, standing on the outside of the federal government, and screaming at the walls (or even shooting a few waves of federal mercenaries or UN mercenaries for that matter), is not a working strategy for US citizens to gain control of the US federal government. Screaming (protesting) and voting have had zero effect over the course of my life. An attempted violent takeover by a citizen militia would have an effect, but not a positive outcome from a US citizen standpoint: many, many US citizens killed; some US military/militarized police/maybe even UN soldiers killed, many US citizens disappeared into prisons or killed in the blowback, guns confiscated... - but not one international banker would be late for his massage or have to skip dessert. War is what they do best. It is their "long and strong suit." A violent force is what they are best equipped to deal with. There has never been a better technologically equipped military force, and more importantly, it is impossible for a large and geographically wide citizen militia to communicate with one another secretly. The top of the pyramid is filled with globalist sociopaths who will not relent, and will not shed a tear when their waves of mercenary human barricade (military, police, political puppets, etc.) are killed. It is impossible to get to the problem with bullets.

The courts are full of Elite-aligned criminals, from the top down, so there is no court/high-court/legal way out of this either. The result of Chris Hedges, et al, vs Obama - regarding provisions of the NDAA - should be strong proof that the high courts obey their militarist/corporatist/bankster masters, nothing more.

What doesn't/won't work, a recap:


voting
protest
violent overthrow
legal/court battle


let's add some more:


"working on oneself", praying, meditating, being a loving compassionate person (all good stuff, but completely ineffective against THIS problem)
forming intentional communities or going the self-sufficient off-grid route (again, good stuff, but no effect whatsoever on the problem)
expatriating (may be wise, but does not address the problem)
trying to foment a global movement against the globalists (c'mon, we haven't even shown that we can foment a movement against our city councils)
demand that our state governors call a constitutional convention (right, our demoncrat and rethuglican Elite-controlled governors are going to do that*)


*(another of the many things that "almost" happen, but not quite. Gee, could there be a pattern here?)

The facts (City of London, Vatican City, District of Columbia, UN, semi-esoteric Supreme Court rulings, Executive Orders, etc.) are hidden from the US citizenry. Yuo can say they are hidden in plain sight, but the intent is to hide these from the citizenry, and operate as if the US is a sovereign nation. This is good and bad. Bad, because, well, the reality is that we are not a sovereign nation. Good, because US citizens generally don't know any real history or its ramifications, the great masses of US citizens will act "as if." (As if this is a sovereign nation, a constitutional republic, and with democratically elected representatives and leaders.)

(The idea behind The Reset Button): Once the minions of the Elite are ousted, and ordinary US citizens with no corporate/banking ties are in all offices of governance, THEN and only then, could any real change take place... such as dis-incorporating the corporate USA, Inc., casting off the Federal Reserve and overturning/negating any laws/provisions/rulings that empower the global Elite and relinquish our sovereignty.

It is going to take something really BIG to oust these illegitimate bastards and take over, and it won't be constitutional esoterica argued in one of their phony courtrooms. I also am completely convinced it must be done non-violently, as they could simply run their illegitimate government from a bunker for decades, while their military forces fill the streets with our blood. We have to be smarter than to give them exactly what they want.

Dennis

[Hervé]

Well, well, well...

Good questions which answers are worth looking for... and like any symptoms, it's rather better to dig to the root cause(s) that created the problem in view of determing THE solution which would change "history's" course... right?

So, what's the problem?

Well, there's a prevalent "apathy" spreading across this planet and diagnosed via its inherent symptom of "Why bother do anything, it's useless any way!"

The first thing to know about that state of mind of a large population is that it's been intended:


Former KGB Agent Yuri Bezmenov Explains How to Brainwash a Nation (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5It1zarINv0)



zeMZGGQ0ERk
How was that implemented?

Mostly through three (3) main avenues:


volatile economics and financial stress
Assured mutual atomic annihilation with the set up of the cold war and,
Biblical end of the world is soon to be upon us... like, tomorrow...

... and, with that, American and other population's collective unconscious got hit with a "NO FUTURE -- NO TOMORROW" hypnotic implant accumulated over THREE (3) GENERATIONS!

So, with that, any wonder there's an "After us, the end of the world!" and/or "Make the most of it now" along with the "Why bother to do anything, it's useless anyway!" attitude spreading around?

Then came the "amplifiers" with water fluoridation, GMOs, Vaccines, prescription drugs, EMF broadcasts, synthetic telepathy of "next-day catastrophes" or short term global warming/floods, invasion of nasty ETs, etc... and re-triggered now and then with Nibiru, asteroids, comets, WW III, etc...

See?

What to do about it?

Demonstrate it's all been a lie, again and again!

Like: "How can there be an end of the world when you are an immortal being?"

Instead, that blood-gorged mosquito... err... vampire... maintains "us" in sleepless states, worrying about health of bodies, finances, WW III while pursuing its usual business (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?27790-While-you-were-out---business-as-usual)...

Thus, the "controllers" got full control over the (potential) opposition... while increasing the size of its private armies of mercenaries by means of fiat currencies.

[giovonni]

Open Borders and the Transhumanist Agenda ...

"An interesting (11 minute segment) of a longer conversation today with David Icke and Alex Jones, who discuss the emerging crisis of personal and national self identity in a world that's being told to no longer be individuals."

Published on Jun 23, 2014

note there is a commercial at the end of interview


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aUzeJRrdwCU

link to full David Icke interview here
(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=riB2ziIaPD0)

[gripreaper]

(The idea behind The Reset Button): Once the minions of the Elite are ousted, and ordinary US citizens with no corporate/banking ties are in all offices of governance, THEN and only then, could any real change take place... such as dis-incorporating the corporate USA, Inc., casting off the Federal Reserve and overturning/negating any laws/provisions/rulings that empower the global Elite and relinquish our sovereignty.

It is going to take something really BIG to oust these illegitimate bastards and take over, and it won't be constitutional esoterica argued in one of their phony courtrooms. I also am completely convinced it must be done non-violently, as they could simply run their illegitimate government from a bunker for decades, while their military forces fill the streets with our blood. We have to be smarter than to give them exactly what they want.

Dennis

I get it, but do the employees of a corporation really have any say in how the corporation is run? Corporations have owners, the "preferred" shareholders who are on the board of directors. The board (elite global alien psychopathic banksters) determines who the chief executives (president, congress, judges) and administrators (alphabet agencies) are, and they determine how the different departments are to execute the business plan.

And what is the business plan? To extract all wealth and resources from all of it's employees for the benefit of the corporation and the interests of it's owners. The employees (citizens) do not have a union to go up against the owners, and do not even realize that they are employees and are running the company store via the corporate mandates. The employees don't even have any common shares in the company any more.

They "think" they are free, they think they actually have a say in corporate policy, or choosing the executives, and they think they have a republic form of government, none of which is true.

All of the tangible assets, natural resources, and labor, have been pledged to this corporation "in perpetuity" for indentured statutory entitlement, so these employees have acquiesced to the corporate structure and have agreed to give all of their energy and labor for a line of credit against worthless fiat promissory notes, at interest, which deteriorate as they move through commerce.

They hold no allodial title to anything, own nothing, and have ONLY illusory possessionary rights IF they maintain the corporate status quo. In other words, as long as they stay on the plantation and follow the rules, they are allowed to keep their jobs as indentured slaves.

So, once again, how do we take these dear sentient souls and rehypoticate their thinking, their status, their indentured servitude, and break the structures which they so vehemently support? Just look at the majority of people, who look at you with disdain if you even mention 9-11, or the Federal Reserve, or the notion that they do not own their homes, or that their money is worthless?

Those who see what really is, a really small percentage of people, who would like to change it, are cursed and disdained by their peers, even their own families, who mostly WANT to remain taken care of, indentured on the plantation of their own slavery, and these same people will vehemently defend it's mandates and statutory requirements, all the while believing in the illusion.

I'm really not trying to be apathetic. I'm really looking for a way to expose the lie and wake up enough people to change things. I just don't think you can go to the corporate directors, as an employee, and tell them how to run the company.

The context is all wrong, and the resources are all on the wrong side of the ledger. This company also controls the currency, and all the means of production, so if you try and usurp their power, they can just cut off the food supply, or the money supply, or create scarcity in commerce. So, how can we be united and powerful if we are broke and starving?

That's what happened to our grandparents who acquiesced to the New Deal. They gave it all in exchange for bread and circuses. They are not willing to give that up and go back to a great depression, and neither are their grandkids (us).

[Shezbeth]

Hmmmm; a citizens union. A curious idea,....

Meh, it would never work.

[Snowflower]

I can see only one possible action: shunning. One person at a time turning away, then one more, then one more. No taxes owed (too little money earned). No credit so no further borrowing. Growing, gathering, raising, fishing, hunting, trapping for food. Small steps toward self sufficiency, while turning away from "systems." one at a time until it turns into a flood.

[giovonni]

Being an American ...

As i have grown older i have come to realize it's not just about fighting for a better life ... It has become just as important in my personal experience and evolution in learning to become more human ... Is that seen as being apathetic ...
Well then so be it. ...

in remembrance of my ancestors from St John's ...

(San Giovanni in Flore Italia )

The Royal Scam


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BEDkNAuNCsQ

[Dennis Leahy]

...
They "think" they are free, they think they actually have a say in corporate policy, or choosing the executives, and they think they have a republic form of government, none of which is true.

... I just don't think you can go to the corporate directors, as an employee, and tell them how to run the company.

The context is all wrong, and the resources are all on the wrong side of the ledger. This company also controls the currency, and all the means of production, so if you try and usurp their power, they can just cut off the food supply, or the money supply, or create scarcity in commerce. So, how can we be united and powerful if we are broke and starving?

...
The vast majority having no idea that the US is a corporation is actually a good thing. It has never been consciously acquiesced to. Upon it's "light of day" examination, it will be rejected outright. But, until the people take over the government (the overt government), nothing will change.

I do not agree to anything that leaves them in power, and puts us in a position of asking them to do anything. Even a cursory glance at The Reset Button will show that this plan ousts them all - permanently, transforms the entire electoral paradigm to make sure they cannot fill the seats with more of the same ilk, and puts only ordinary citizens with no corporate ties (not even stock ownership), and no party allegiance, and no private or corporate money, on the ballots.

The Reset Button is not an end-game plan - it's a front-end plan and strategy.

(I don't know where the end game will take us in its evolution, but by negating the ability of the Elite to be in control, whatever the end-game, it will be exponentially better than letting the monsters remain in power.)

The Reset Button is a strategy to take them out of power. We have to have a first step. We have to take them out of power first.

Dennis

[Carmody]

Stop smoking hypnotic techniques. Some of the time, people who try hypnosis for stopping smoking, think it did nothing for them.

Yet, in that moment, they stop smoking. It becomes effective for them.

Part of the question is the 'mass hypnotic' of media, and herd instinct that lies in the automatic and autonomous aspects of daily life. That we are programmed to want that jelly donut, by the +85% of ourselves that is unconscious, the parts that have become automatic. The learned societal/cultural/group programming added into that huge unconscious mix.

Recall (or know of) Delores Cannon's comment that people fell into a hypnotic state of mind (a particular mind/wave state), within 30 seconds of watching a television, and not one person in the test could stop themselves from doing so. No one lasted more than 30 seconds.

That approximately 88% of our daily life exists in this given state.

Deprogramming people takes the same path as the encoding.

Which is why it is so important for PTB types to keep humans down on the farm and unaware of these things. to use forms of programming. to use that automatic unconscious aspect of self, as much as is possible and to keep it asleep.

The part of you that is reading this type and interpreting it, is just a thin sheen on top of this given thing.

Americans are not apathetic, this phase they are in is just a component of their current programming that they did to themselves --- and others added their own programming into/onto it.

The same as for the rest of the people in the rest of the 'civilized' world.

[Carmody]

The courts are full of Elite-aligned criminals, from the top down, so there is no court/high-court/legal way out of this either.

Find me a judge (that is above the city elected level), an appointed judge, somewhere in the western world, that is not a freemason.

Good luck with that.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

And, most importantly, I've got $20 here, that says that +90% of the people reading this bit, right now, have already forgotten that their conscious mind that is reading this, is just a thin sheen on top of a 88% sleeping unconscious giant. That they don't understand what my above post means. To understand it, more of their line between consciousness and unconsciousness, must dissolve. They must take charge of themselves, in a real way, in this specific way. The fundamental way that actually changes things.

That... ladies and germs, is specifically what 'human awakening' - is all about. To not just realize that you are being gamed..... but that the mechanism by which it is done... is in you and of you.

Hello! is there anyone home in there? Wake up!

[Carmody]

On infiltration of the forum and general subversion of the world:

One does not need to prevent all aspects of an explosion from happening, in order to divert it, to cancel or shift it's effects.

One merely needs to prevent the peak of over-pressure from taking place. Diverting a few percentage points is enough to divert the intent and flow of the rest.

Just a few percentage points of change, which can hide themselves quite well, due to people's inability to find and recognize the pattern of subtlety among the complex mess.

In the same way just a few percentage points of change are required to stop a person from jumping up high enough to grab a low hanging ladder, the person may never notice that the situation was externally contrived. A black and white change of grab ladder - not grab ladder, was effected ------with a few percentage points of subtlety.

The person committed to 100% of the energies required to get the job done, but the shift of the few percentage points was enough to prevent their effort from being effective. Thus they never know that they did it right, and did it with enough energy.

In such ways, you can find the subtle hidden hand that shifts, effort, desire, and energy..... into the appearance of apathy.

They are asking for you to move to the explosion level. One where they apply their energy... they apply direction/deflection to the head of it, and divert it into what they want.

For example, think of what game they played with Japan in WWII, they forced Japan to go to the explosion level. In the same way, they appear to be playing games in eastern Europe right now. They are pushing the Ukraine to move to the explosion level. Same way they always do it.

You can be sure they have multiple plans and contingency plans, waiting in the wings, for if and when that happens. Same for the populace of the USA.

We both know these things - and don't. Preventing them from achieving their aims.. key to that, is HOW you arrive at knowing these things. Knowing HOW they expect you to act and be, how they worked to get you there. Exactly what levers of manipulation were used to get you there.

Only in that path of thinking, can a way out be found.

[Dennis Leahy]

... The learned societal/cultural/group programming added into that huge unconscious mix.

... just a component of their current programming that they did to themselves --- and others added their own programming into/onto it.

I'm not quick to place blame on the victims of deliberate, systematic, mass hypnosis. While people were going about their "normal" lives (and yes, "normal" since I have been on the planet seems to be a state of mostly somnambulance) Edward Bernays and others and whole think-tanks of devious minds were scheming about how to ensnare and enslave our minds. We were unprepared for the onslaught. Most of us don't even realize what was done to us to program us - and yes, our own patterns were studied and used to exploit us.

I'm not completely letting us off the hook, but feel that we have to acknowledge that this was not something we simply fell into, but were lured into.

Dennis

[ulli]

... The learned societal/cultural/group programming added into that huge unconscious mix.

... just a component of their current programming that they did to themselves --- and others added their own programming into/onto it.

I'm not quick to place blame on the victims of deliberate, systematic, mass hypnosis. While people were going about their "normal" lives (and yes, "normal" since I have been on the planet seems to be a state of mostly somnambulance) Edward Bernays and others and whole think-tanks of devious minds were scheming about how to ensnare and enslave our minds. We were unprepared for the onslaught. Most of us don't even realize what was done to us to program us - and yes, our own patterns were studied and used to exploit us.

I'm not completely letting us off the hook, but feel that we have to acknowledge that this was not something we simply fell into, but were lured into.

Dennis

We are completely on the same page, Dennis. The path which leads to self regulation for most people goes through stages, and the discovery that our all powerful parents lied about Santa is one of them.
So that means at the collective level they need to first see that their government (collective parents) lied.
So then comes a disconnect, and an effort to do it on one's own. And only then can personal responsibility be discovered.

[Hervé]

[...]

In the same way just a few percentage points of change are required to stop a person from jumping up high enough to grab a low hanging ladder, the person may never notice that the situation was externally contrived. A black and white change of grab ladder - not grab ladder, was effected ------with a few percentage points of subtlety.

[...]

Curiouser and curiouser: check this post (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?52786-MATRIX-REVEALED-Analysis-Solutions&p=839731&viewfull=1#post839731) (<---)

[giovonni]

dudes ... :rolleyes:

Why Are Americans So Apathetic... And what can be done about it ?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SRkFDcX_72c