Real Meaning of Shakespeare's Plays / Joseph Atwill

[marlowe]

In my opinion Joseph Atwill has uncovered the real truth....

If you post an opinion without listening to the interview you are doing yourself a disservice.imho....I realize that Francis Bacon was involved with putting the plays out

but it does appear that a woman .{Amelia Bassano } actually wrote the plays....

http://www.redicecreations.com/radio/2014/06/RIR-140613.php

[scanner]

Yes , it is correct and well known that Shakespeare didn't write his sonnets and plays . As the lady of the lamp wasn't Florence Nightingale but was in fact a Black woman , yes I said a black woman . Her name ? well I leave that up to you to research . All is not as you are educated in (I use the term loosely ), not even a tad. .

[marlowe]

here is a 15 minute video about the Jewish/Italian woman who seems to have written the plays....She is not black ...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tyn-3GNOd7w

[Cardillac]

it is still not certain which author(s) wrote 'cover-story' Shakespeare's works; some sources state they were written by Christopher Marlowe after his "faked death" (read John Hamer's "Falsification of History" starting on pg. 161 about this); other sources say the author was Edmund de Vere (very high up in Elisabeth the First's cabinet); read Liam Scheff's "Official Stories" about this topic- and yet other sources state his works were written by...ohh, forget it- in any case it maybe a conglomeration of all the above plus even more-

what has always bothered me about Atwill is he seems to be completely unaware of (or purposely ignores) the research of Jordan Maxwell; Maxwell has stated Judaism did not precede Christianity but Judaism first appeared ca. 600 A.D. (creation of the Vatican, just like Islam in ca. 750 A.D.?)-

all that aside I just feel people falsely equate the Hebrew script with Judaism; the origins of a script may go back much farther than a later-based religion using a previously founded script- just because something is written in ancient Hebrew does not mean the entire script embraces a certain religious belief system-

be well all-

Larry

[mosquito]

here is a 15 minute video about the Jewish/Italian woman who seems to have written the plays....She is not black ...


Fascinating ! By far the most persuasive argument I've come across.

[Bluegrass]

here is a 15 minute video about the Jewish/Italian woman who seems to have written the plays....

"Behind every great man, there is an even greater woman." :biggrin1:

[Jake]

I seem to recall Bob Dean mentioning Shakespeare in an interview with Bill and Kerry. (http://projectavalon.net/lang/en/project_camelot_a_conversation_with_bob_dean_2-25-11_en.html)


Bob: You prepared yourself. What if I told you, that what you think you see is a reality, is not reality at all? It’s an illusion.

Kerry: True.

Bob: And then even further, what if I were to infer to you, that all of this is part of a program? I know you’re familiar with the movie, The Matrix.

Kerry: Sure.

Bob: Okay. Well, you’re pretty close. Shakespeare tried to make it clear and I [was] always convinced that that guy was one of them [points straight up]. He was a genius. And I’m not even sure the guy we think of as Shakespeare was Shakespeare.

Bill: Mm-hm. http://projectavalon.net/lang/en/project_camelot_a_conversation_with_bob_dean_2-25-11_en.html (http://projectavalon.net/lang/en/project_camelot_a_conversation_with_bob_dean_2-25-11_en.html)


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8s7c15K4kLo
refer to timestamp 1:09:38

Spot on.
Jake.

[conk]

The book The Lost Secret of William Shakespeare, by Richard Allan Wagner, makes a very convincing case that the real author was Sir Francis Bacon. It's actually quite comical how Bacon dropped so, so many hints.

[marlowe]

The book The Lost Secret of William Shakespeare, by Richard Allan Wagner, makes a very convincing case that the real author was Sir Francis Bacon. It's actually quite comical how Bacon dropped so, so many hints.

I have been interested in this topic for over 30 years and have read over a dozen books about it.....

There is absolutely NO DOUBT what so ever that Francis Bacon was involved in getting the plays published and

put out before the public.....and he may have done some editing .....But Atwill's evidence comes straight out of the

words in the plays and can be connected directly to Amelia Bassano..She was the mistress of Christopher Marlow

and had strong family connections to the Globe theater....

I am fascinated by this era in European history ...especially France & England.....which is why I chose my user name

for Christopher Marlow...But with a different spelling....

Do yourself a favor and find the time to listen to the Atwill interview...The evidence is astounding IMHO...

[conk]

Do yourself a favor and find the time to listen to the Atwill interview...The evidence is astounding IMHO...

Agreed, it is very compelling. Thanks!

[ThePythonicCow]

Here's a related video, based on the work of Joseph Atwill and including him discussing the topic, explaining how the gospels of the "Christian" (what would become the Roman Catholic church, more exactly) New Testament were likely composed by writers of the Flavian dynasty (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flavian_dynasty), the ruling family of Rome after the Caesars, and that the stories of Jesus in the New Testament are actually stories of Titus Flavius' campaign through Galilee and the destruction of Jerusalem and its Temple.
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[ThePythonicCow]

Atwill's work was also discussed at some length in an earlier thread, such as starting here with Marlowe's post: Did Jesus Really exist? -- Post #114 (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?61802-Did-Jesus-Really-exist&p=712267&viewfull=1#post712267).

Giovonni has previously posted this interview of Atwill by Mel Fabregas on VeritasRadio.com, but it is also relevant here:
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[gripreaper]

This is a very prescient and excellent Joseph Atwill interview. As serendipity would have it, Joe Atwill and Jan Irvin of “Gnostic Media” have deconstructed the entire New Age movement and the social engineering which correlates to the Roman social engineering. I know it is 2 hours, but it is well worth it for those who want to back engineer all of the social memes we are being fed in regards to the new spirituality, or the new religion being developed. Just as Rome developed Christianity, so too are we being socially conditioned to accept the new religion.

Here is the link to “The Middle Chamber” interview: http://www.gnosticmedia.com/

The conclusion, which I find is missing, is that the Roman State of 2000 years ago went pillaging and murdering all around the Mediterranean, through the inquisitions, killing anyone who did not ascribe to the state sanctioned religions and memes. The sanctioned left brain patriarchy, severed the right brain intuitive, killed all the Gnostics and destroyed the ancient knowledge relative to the psychic abilities and the Siddhis powers, burned the library in Alexandria to eliminate the ancient knowledge, and created the social engineering of the slave system through state sanctioned religion, and release of tension through bread and circuses, and dark ages of scarcity and control.

The trivium glorifies the five senses as well as logic and reason, as the bedrock of spirituality, and this anchor is the spiritual path, while warning about Ayahuasca, or other ethogens as tools of slavery. The entire spiritual movement and new age movements, counter cultures, ancient religions, ancient meditative teachings, fall suspect within the slavery and control system.

I subscribe to distilling down context to the energetic level, the basic body level cellular visceral sensations of the primitive brainstem, driven by the fight or flight adrenaline response, as well as the emotional boundary sensations, driven through the ability to emote symbolism's and concepts and archetypes, such as love and compassion, AND the cognitive abilities of the integrated right and left hemisphere's of the hippocampus mind.

I also recognize the spiritual aspects of the Cerebellum and the Cerebrum, once they are connected, as “higher mind” not driven by the five senses, but connected to the higher senses, the Siddhis abilities, and the relationship of the pineal gland in connecting these non dualistic aspects.

I choose not to ignore the exoteric aspects of the bodies chakra system, how it connects to the lifetimes of imbedded DNA in the body, how the etheric energy layers emanate from the body, how the central column of the djed connects to the terrestrial earth as well as the celestial grand Sophia, the matrix of “all that is”, and to generate energy in the second chakra, husband it, focus it, and emanate it, IS the essence of manifestation and the oscillations between the dualistic polarities of creation, while remaining diligent to the FACT that the ability to hold energy in a body, to where one’s psychic abilities spontaneously appear, and open up the electromagnetic spectrum of light beyond the limited scope of what we can see and feel with our five senses, is spiritual and keeps the soul intact and brings the body into alignment with the soul.

The New Age meme, both the Shakespearian memes of Rome and the counterculture memes of this century engineered by Edward Bernays and his protégé's, are designed to make the ego, the terrestrial energy centers, severed from the terrestrial energy centers, the state sanctioned spirituality, when nothing could be further from the truth. Clearing the discordant beliefs from these terrestrial energy centers and integrating them to the celestial energy centers is the path, not separating them.

One who is awake and aware, has the ability to sense viscerally, to emote physically, to cognate with both balanced hemispheres of the brain, and to run energy through the chakras and out the etheric layers and create their reality. This reality then expands as energy is brought into balance and maintained, and the initiate learns about the entire energy system and the entire ability of being human. Once this level of awareness and integration is reached, then one has access to the Cerebellum and the Cerebrum, the full capacity of the higher mind.

Once we understand how pervasive the destruction of these inherent abilities has been over millennium, and how much energy is spent to keep us from this knowledge, we can then see how Rome engineered its social culture with Shakespeare, and how the current “same” powers are doing it today.

Be wary of the synergistic dialectics which purport to defame the new age and promote spirituality, such as Mark Passio. I was going to take this on six months back when Roman was heavily gorilla marketing him, but as fate would have it, it got lost on the very day that Avalon lost 24 hours of its data, and I took this as a sign to drop it, at least with Roman at the time. I’m still not fully ready to expose Mark Passio, as this would be a gargantuan undertaking, but I am of the integrated mindset that he is a leading purveyor of the new religious memes being created out of the dialectic of the new age and the new religion.

Remain diligent. They’re still trying to sell us something and nothing is an accident.

[Silo]

I'm finding his analysis of Shakespeare pretty weak, hope he does a better job making his point in his book. I understand the idea of something being ideologically reprehensible to be fair--example what's the point of Oedipus Rex: "you don't want to know", or any of the Greek myths: "don't f$&k with the gods." I get it...but I'm not quite sure I can go along with Shakespeare's plots being garbage or there being no real value in reading him/her.

I don't find the plays didactic or preachy... They are full of beautiful ambiguities that if a reader attempts to reason out a moral they will find themselves pulled in a million different directions. They will change their minds, be provoked and evoked into deep contemplation. This guy seems to be saying that if you read something it can damage you some how. It's as if he would have us rip out our eyeballs just like Oedipus.

Sorry, if you like and appreciate his work; I'm sure there's great info in it, but I was a little let down by his analysis.

[araucaria]

Who wrote The Iliad and The Odyssey? Answer: a whole bardic oral tradition, until they were finally written down. What difference does it make? Very little. Who writes on Avalon? Mostly anonymous posters, and a few knowns, who are largely unknowns. What difference does it make? Possibly quite a bit, for better or worse. But ultimately we have their words and make of them what we can. Who wrote The Arabian Nights? The Queen of Sheba for all I care. So, who Shakespeare actually was is pretty irrelevant. His words are what they are and we make of them what we can. I find it useful to read what great minds have thought of them. People like the poet Ted Hughes, whom I’ve mentioned several times, including below, think a very great deal of them, and I share that view. End of story.



There is a little more to the Mary Magdalen story than this smear campaign. It involves the identifying of her too with a mythical figure, namely what Robert Graves calls the Triple Goddess or the White Goddess, and which the poet Ted Hughes applies to a sizeable chunk of Shakespeare in Shakespeare and the Goddess of Complete Being. This is a lengthy explanation whose thesis is that Shakespeare was using the theatre as a ploy to expose his Catholic views at a time when Puritanism was persecuting Catholics. Simplifying outrageously, the eternal feminine (the Goddess of Complete Being), he says, was the major battleground at this time, espoused by Catholicism and rejected by Puritanism. She comprises at once the mother figure, the pure bride and the whore (representing her sexuality), which are not separable without leading to tragedy. Several plays explore different failures to reconcile these aspects of woman. For example, Othello, who loves his loving wife, kills the whore; or Hamlet, whose hesitation is because killing the whore also means killing his mother, while facing this dilemma collapses his relationship with his chaste bride Ophelia, whom he packs off to a nunnery; you get the picture.

From this perspective, misogynistic Pauline Christianity corresponds to Puritanism and counterintuitively Catholicism would be its heretical offshoot – the main difference being the acknowledged importance of women, with the emphasis on Mary the mother, Mary Magdalen the bride and sexual partner. It is somewhat ironic that the Catholic Church is criticized today for manifestly not doing enough for women. And back in the Elizabethan era, at a time when people were getting hanged, drawn and quartered for this major difference of opinion, Shakespeare was a whistle-blower and spiritual guide of the first order, using the fiction of the theatre to speak some unsavory truths.

This myth is often to be found in modern fiction as well. In French, Mary Magdalen is Marie Madeleine. Thus in Proust’s In Search of Lost Time, she is a central mythical figure, not only for the famous madeleine cake and tea episode and its discreet connection with the narrator’s mother, but also the connection with his lover, alternating chasteness and promiscuity and stirring love and jealousy. This is also the theme of James Joyce’s Ulysses, whose hero, Leopold Bloom, copes rather better with the sometimes unfaithful goddess figure he is married to. And the theme can be traced through The Arabian Nights in which the wife is fighting for her life all the way back to The Odyssey, in which the man is fighting for his wife.

So there was a whole lot going on long before Dan Brown came on the scene to popularize the story. We need to see the power of myth not simply as a way of spreading disinformation about real individuals but also as the universal relevance given to universal issues. Learning the truth about Mary Magdalen can help remove the smears to the individual; it can also help us deal with this endless issue of male violence due to (over)possessiveness, incomprehension and ultimately fear of the fair sex.

[Hervé]

How about that Sicilian guy... Michelangelo Florio Crollalanza?


Michelangelo Florio Crollalanza Aka The Bard?

Very intriguing theory with so many amazing coincidences in the life of the Sicilian Michelangelo Florio Crollalanza that would fill the biographical gaps in the life of the official Shakespeare that any historian has tried to explain without getting to any reasonable conclusion. The theory of the possible Italian origins of Shakespeare is widely accepted in Italy now even though I guess that his immense and unique work belongs to humanity:

http://www.abeautifuldifference.com/webdoc9091.html

Did you know that Shakespeare's biographers of his time state that he had a strong foreign accent?

One of the early works of Michelangelo Florio Crollalanza, written in Sicilian, is "Troppu trafficu pi nnenti" which translates "Too much ado about nothing" in English. Strange enough, the Shakespearean play is set in Messina (Sicily), too, Michelangelo's birthplace.

There are so many coincidences, too many to be listed, but it's incredible to note that Shakespeare was known to attend a club in London, but his name never appears in the registers, while, Michelangelo Florio does.

The family, after fleeing Sicily because of the Inquisition (they were Calvinists) went to live in northern Italy, in a house, Ca' Otello (there exist documents about this) , that belonged to a moor mercenary who had served in the Venetian Army and was said to have murdered his wife, Desdemona, for misplaced jealousy.

There's also a 16-year-old Giulietta who committed suicide for him in Verona; even in this case there are documents. After the girl's death, Michelangelo was accused to have murdered her, so he fled to Stratford where a branch of the family lived. Incredible to say, but if you translate Crollalanza in English, you just get Shakespeare.

The amazing knowledge of Italy that Shakespeare shows in his works can only support this theory.

I read a lot of material in Italian and one of the things that blew my mind is that Michelangelo was an enfant prodige when he studied under the Franciscans in Messina and also proved to be an excellent student at the university of Padua (Padua is only second to Bologna in Italy) where he met Giordano Bruno and Galileo Galilei. It seems that Bruno himself wrote a letter of presentation for him to the Count of Pembroke and to the Count of Southampton to protect the young Michelangelo from the Inquisition that was on his trail.

The theory of Michelangelo Florio Crollalanza is really logical and real, but it will remain a theory, I guess, just for its inconvenience.

An article of The Times:

http://www.endex.com/gf/shkspr/shlt040800.htm

It sounds nonsense to me that Shakespeare acquired the knowledge he had of Italy just eating in Italian restaurants in London, really.

VittorioSorry, it seems that the place where that article was posted has disappeared...



Edit from Bill: it's archived here:


http://web.archive.org/web/20010820040935/http://www.endex.com/gf/shkspr/shlt040800.htm (http://web.archive.org/web/20010820040935/http://www.endex.com/gf/shkspr/shlt040800.htm)

[Lifebringer]

More "elite" white wash/hogwash/untruths/fairytales, painting over real truths.
I say this because "his-story" is fabricated by envy and the time given to rule. His elite time is up, regardless of his minion puppets in governments around the world.

[wegge]

c5EDscKmG2c

Joe Atwill exposed? But, exposed as what?

(By a guy who interviewed him)