John Lash

[Decibellistics]

He has an interesting viewpoint on the subject of the elite.


jpfkHMKF4w0

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jpfkHMKF4w0&feature=related

[Swami]

:bump::horn::bump:

http://www.chriscarrphotography.com/images/john_lash_cording05.jpg
http://www.chriscarrphotography.com/images/john_lash_cording04.jpg

[Swami]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ijg17r9Kxi8

http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=Veritas+Show+-+John+Lash+-+Metahistory+and+Gnosticism&aq=f

[Swami]

Reality sandwich

http://www.realitysandwich.com/psyche

Metahistory

http://www.metahistory.org/sitemap.php

[astrid]

Thanks for the Bump Swami!! Very interesting interview, i have been interested in the Gnostics for some time now. Before i found Camelot , i did a lot of " unpacking " of my religious upbringing, part of which was to look at the " lost books of the bible" as i always sensed there was alot we where being told...
Gregg Braden also talks about 2 crucial moments in history that changed the path to where we are now...one being the burning of the great library of Alexandria, the other being the editng of our biblical texts. When i found out that ALL the Gnostic teachings where removed, i was VERY curious as to why it was so threatening to the rulers of the time.
Its interesting that their earth based spirituality is more in tune to what we are fighting to return to, in order to save the planet.

Im hoping to read more of Lash's work in the near future, he does pose some very interesting view points....

[Fredkc]

Starts at 2:00 min into OP's video:

"This globalist elite, who practice these mind control games on us, they're controlled by their own game.
They are not some 'Illuminati" sitting in an enlightened state, pulling all the strings. They are pulled by their own strings.
They're as sick as the game they perpetrate.
Any of us can contract the sickness. What we have to do is learn and respect the sickness. The sickness is very clever."

I like this guy already. :)
Fred

[Fredkc]

I have continued listening, and I am now on Part 7.

Some very cool stuff!
Fred

[Swami]

"It's an ancient disinformation scam."
Lash on Sitchin and Annunaki Genetic Manipulation Mythos


"just because something is written in cuneiform on clay tablets...three thousand, eight hundred years ago doesn't mean it's true. Just because it is written doesn't mean it's a true account of what happened. And, I don't believe it is." - John Lamb Lash

http://zenbuoy.blogspot.com/2010/12/its-ancient-disinformation-scam-lamb-on.html



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QAlnZK8zGMk
...and now its time to wake up...

[Luke]

Well, there is lots of interesting stuff on JLL page (metahistory.org (http://www.metahistory.org/)) .. found this one quite interesting http://www.metahistory.org/gnostique/archonfiles/ReptilianAgenda.php

Of course, he is only human, and make lots of glaring mistakes .. but as far as food for thought goes, not bad.

Also, mark parallels to Sitchen mythology .. and the little bit about failed attempt of genetic interbreeding with Nephilim .. who were able to access 'phantom body' (material one?) but not 'luminous one'..

Also- he does not dispute Sitchen's accuracy - only IF we can trust the clay tablet's record (after all they were written from specific perspective and with specific purpose)

[Steven]

"It's an ancient disinformation scam."






Lash on Sitchin and Annunaki Genetic Manipulation Mythos

"just because something is written in cuneiform on clay tablets...three thousand, eight hundred years ago doesn't mean it's true. Just because it is written doesn't mean it's a true account of what happened. And, I don't believe it is." - John Lamb Lash



With all respect to Mr. Lash. What is written on the summerian tablets doesn't mean it is true because it is written on old tablets. But it certainly can not be ignored! People has to learn to live with possibilities, potential, uncertainties... I am not necessarly beleiving these tablets says the whole truth, I am comfortable with the 'possibilities', but can not ignore what is written on them.

Namaste, Steven

[Luke]

Steven , better read what this man actually posted (from link 2 posts up, http://www.metahistory.org/gnostique/archonfiles/ReptilianAgenda.php)

So, the earliest surviving documents in book form, the Nag Hammadi Codices found in Egypt in 1945, contain an account of alien intrusion with descriptive clues on the physical form of the intruders. But what about the earliest known writings in any form? Archeologists tell us that cuneiform writing was invented in Mesopotamia around 3200, long before bound books appeared. The cuneiform record on clay tablets presents a fascinating repertoire of stories about human prehistory. Cuneiform texts such as Atrahasis, Enuma Elish, and Enki and World Order, describe an alien race called the Annunaki, “those who from heaven to earth came,” as Zechariah Sitchin translates that term. Sitchin is well-known for densely researched books on the Annunaki, whom he identifies with the Biblical Nefhilim and “the Watchers” of the Book of Enoch. These are alien entities who “came into the daughters of men,” as Genesis says. In short, they interbred with the human race.

Assumed to be factual, the Sumerian tablets give an account of alien intervention upon humankind by a master race from another world or dimension. This is the Annunaki script, as I call it. Sitchin and many others take this script for a record of actual events in prehistory. The tablets describe two Annunaki leaders, Enki and his half-sister Ninhursag, who produce a hybrid slave race by mixing their divine genes with the inferior genes of the lu-lu, the indigenous ape-like peoples of the planet, Thus, an alien “interbreeding program” is central to the Annunaki narrative. This is also a key event in the "reptilian agenda." Indeed, it may be considered the foundation myth of that agenda. A foundation myth is a story that legitimates a social or cultural custom or order. It is worth noting that the Annunaki script is the foundation myth of theocracy, rulership by the gods or descendents of the gods. The ancient theocrats claimed descent from the reptilian alien race.

It is an indisputable fact that this story is written down in the oldest surviving records, but is the story itself a fact? And if Annunaki intervention were not a fact, but a fiction presented as fact, how would we know? How would we be able to tell the difference? What critical faculties would be required for such an exercise of discernment?

[Steven]

Thanks Luke,

quotes: It is an indisputable fact that this story is written down in the oldest surviving records, but is the story itself a fact? And if Annunaki intervention were not a fact, but a fiction presented as fact, how would we know? How would we be able to tell the difference? What critical faculties would be required for such an exercise of discernment?

First of all, Sitchin never presented the summerian tablets as facts, but as part of the summerian cultures (tales and history) and decided to interprete them. He doesn't claim it is fact and truth.

Second, a part of the answers to Mr. Lash question lies in the history of other ancient cultures. The african tales presented by Credo Mutwa are a different form of information that tend to corroborate the summerian tablets. The 'old stories' of the Aztec are another example. The tibetain culture also have stories that seem to talk about the same 'old events' presented in the summerian tablets. And probably a lot more.

Now, there is a difference between 'claming it is facts and truth' and saying 'hey, look at this, how interesting!'

People as to learn to live in world of 'possibilities'. It is not necessarly true, but it is not necessarly false also. So, what do we do with it? I say, keep it at the back of your mind (open mind) and don't tag it too quickly as true or false. Keep searching. Personally, I find these 'old tales' including the summerian tablets interpretation form Sitchin as quite interesting. I don't tag them as true or false, but certainly find it more and more interesting as I discover other sources of 'old stories' presenting a 'history of humankind' with a lot of interesting similarities.

Namaste, Steven

[sister]

Bumping this because the message is so important IMO. :bump:
At the 3:00 minute mark, Lash talks about the psychosis of the global elite, which reminded me of the sociopath thread.

Read John Lamb Lash's book Not in His Image last summer and again over the holidays.
It's one of those life changers, at least it was for me.

[Calz]

Bumping this because the message is so important IMO. :bump:
At the 3:00 minute mark, Lash talks about the psychosis of the global elite, which reminded me of the sociopath thread.

Read John Lamb Lash's book Not in His Image last summer and again over the holidays.
It's one of those life changers, at least it was for me.

I will match your bump :bump: and raise you one :bump2: :bump2:

He also did a dvd interview with Jay Weidner:


http://store.sacredmysteriesmarketplace.com/dvds/sophia-returning-the-path-to-planetary-tantra.html


Sorry no utube link ... I bought the dvd and try to repect people's copyrights.

[Fredkc]

Damn... if you're going to bump something...

http://fredsitelive.com/images/post/bump2.jpg

Do it like ya mean it!
Fred

[Calz]

Damn... if you're going to bump something...

http://fredsitelive.com/images/post/bump2.jpg

Do it like ya mean it!
Fred

Priceless!!!

Thanx Fred :)

[RedeZra]

http://hothardware.com/newsimages/Item15624/bump-speaker.jpg

[Ahkenaten]

Well, there is lots of interesting stuff on JLL page (metahistory.org (http://www.metahistory.org/)) .. found this one quite interesting http://www.metahistory.org/gnostique/archonfiles/ReptilianAgenda.php

Of course, he is only human, and make lots of glaring mistakes .. but as far as food for thought goes, not bad.

Also, mark parallels to Sitchen mythology .. and the little bit about failed attempt of genetic interbreeding with Nephilim .. who were able to access 'phantom body' (material one?) but not 'luminous one'..

Also- he does not dispute Sitchen's accuracy - only IF we can trust the clay tablet's record (after all they were written from specific perspective and with specific purpose)

There are many problems with the scholarship of Sitchin's translations of Sumerian Cuneiform tablets...................one of the most respected scholars in the US in this field was Noah Kramer. He never mentioned most of the stuff Sitchin came up with. That is why Sitchin's books are in the fiction section at the bookstore............he embroidered on the translations. Sitchin deserves one hell of a lot of credit for bringing public attention to the power and beauty of ancient Sumer................but he took many liberties in his interpretations leading to many distortions. Add to that the enormous difficulty of translating an unknown language UNRELATED TO ANY OTHER EXISTING LANGUAGE GROUPS and you can see the difficulties even the most assiduous scholar would have with the material. Fact is, more is unknown than is known about these mysterious people, where they came from, who they were, how they thought, what they revered. It is an enormous mystery.

[RedeZra]

Steven , better read what this man actually posted (from link 2 posts up, http://www.metahistory.org/gnostique/archonfiles/ReptilianAgenda.php)

So, the earliest surviving documents in book form, the Nag Hammadi Codices found in Egypt in 1945, contain an account of alien intrusion with descriptive clues on the physical form of the intruders. But what about the earliest known writings in any form? Archeologists tell us that cuneiform writing was invented in Mesopotamia around 3200, long before bound books appeared. The cuneiform record on clay tablets presents a fascinating repertoire of stories about human prehistory. Cuneiform texts such as Atrahasis, Enuma Elish, and Enki and World Order, describe an alien race called the Annunaki, “those who from heaven to earth came,” as Zechariah Sitchin translates that term. Sitchin is well-known for densely researched books on the Annunaki, whom he identifies with the Biblical Nefhilim and “the Watchers” of the Book of Enoch. These are alien entities who “came into the daughters of men,” as Genesis says. In short, they interbred with the human race.

Assumed to be factual, the Sumerian tablets give an account of alien intervention upon humankind by a master race from another world or dimension. This is the Annunaki script, as I call it. Sitchin and many others take this script for a record of actual events in prehistory. The tablets describe two Annunaki leaders, Enki and his half-sister Ninhursag, who produce a hybrid slave race by mixing their divine genes with the inferior genes of the lu-lu, the indigenous ape-like peoples of the planet, Thus, an alien “interbreeding program” is central to the Annunaki narrative. This is also a key event in the "reptilian agenda." Indeed, it may be considered the foundation myth of that agenda. A foundation myth is a story that legitimates a social or cultural custom or order. It is worth noting that the Annunaki script is the foundation myth of theocracy, rulership by the gods or descendents of the gods. The ancient theocrats claimed descent from the reptilian alien race.


this sounds about right to me

just remember to insert angel in place of alien ; )


the 'alien agenda' - or 'ufoology' as Bill Cooper coined it - is a lame modern man-made attempt to deny divinity


it is high time that you see through this insane flight of fantasy


come back to ground and help give a hand

to solve the problems of our world

[truthseekerdan]

just remember to insert angel in place of alien ; )

Does the name ET's sound better for you? :p

[RedeZra]

Does the name ET's sound better for you? :p

I'm not into 'ufoology' ; )

[humanalien]

Unidentified 2006

You can watch this movie free online if you haven't
got it. I can't put a link to it here in this forum
as per the forum rules.

I was expecting to watch a movie about ufo encounters
but i got fooled. People in this movie claimed to have
been abducted by aliens and then later on, told by Mib
to keep there mouth shut.

The movie revolves around 4 magazine reporters trying to
find out what happened to these people during there abduction
but slowly the focus was taken off of ufo's and put on demons
and God.

Two christian reporters found out that satan is using every
means possible to make people believe that there is life other
than us in the universe and make God almost non-existent.

The movie is saying that all these ufo encounters are nothing
more than satan using his bag of dirty tricks to fool people
by making people think that aliens created us and not God.

It also mentions something about the few people on this planet
that are running/ruling everything and they are here to prevent
us from evolving into a higher spiritual being.

***Note***
This is only a movie. This is not something that really
happened but to me, there is a lot of truth in it.

Search for free online movies and once you find one,
search for the title of the movie. I think you will like it.

[shiva777]

John will push many people's buttons with his candid views on spirituality and the many distractions and deceptions out there...worth a listen,notice your reactions and ask why?

http://www.youtube.com/user/webbotforumcom?feature=mhum

[3optic]

About an hour in. Great so far. I never pitch my tent.

[sister]

Long interview with John Lash on the webbot channel (April 2, 2011):
http://www.youtube.com/user/webbotforumcom?feature=mhum
(This was originally posted in the Spirituality forum)

[Roseheart]

Thanks for this thread.
There is an article by Lash in the latest Nexus magazine where he talks about this and, never having read any of his stuff before, it totally opened my mind... If the whole genetic manipulation thing is a hoax then our imaginations are only as limited as the boundaries put there by TPTB... We're taught that there's something wrong (not whole) with us and so the human race behaves accordingly... Lead around mentally by them like pets thinking we're not the full quid or something.... It just resonates with me that this is bull. We just need to stop this belief that has been placed there. We're also told we're 'evil' a lot... The world is a reflection of our imaginations and our imaginations have been highjacked.
I did a gnostic course recently on astral travelling. The Gnosics believe that Jesus was teaching these techniques and showing people they are not limited by their earthly body because they go into the 5th dimension every night and that's where they go when they die. If the people around him were able to prove this to themselves then they would truly have understood there is no death. This would have been truly revolutionary and have totally undermined the fear based control perpetrated by the elite... They would have to do something about that... Lash does say that Jesus was another victim of all this because he bought into the whole messiah/chosen one thing too though...
Ah, I love this thread!

[ktlight]

He has an interesting viewpoint on the subject of the elite.


jpfkHMKF4w0

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jpfkHMKF4w0&feature=related

Deci, I love this video, the speaker, John Lash. He makes sense.

[ktlight]

Long interview with John Lash on the webbot channel (April 2, 2011):
http://www.youtube.com/user/webbotforumcom?feature=mhum
(This was originally posted in the Spirituality forum)

I am in the process of digesting this long vid. John Lash has extremely interesting views, some of which I will have to explore further.
So, thank you, sister.

[sister]

I am in the process of digesting this long vid. John Lash has extremely interesting views, some of which I will have to explore further.
So, thank you, sister.

You are welcome :) There's a lot of material to digest in that interview, for sure. I am having difficulty reconciling two of the themes in particular.
Here's a quote from the metahistory website:

"Contra-violence is the use of violence by people opposed to violence who, nevertheless, regard a non-violent response as inadequate in certain situations. The term "contra-violence" signifies action taken against violence, equivalent to it in strength and effectiveness, not passive non-violent resistance. But the action so taken does not involve direct-contact physical enactment of violence. Rather, it involves activating aggressive and lethal force equivalent and superior to the violence opposed.
To understand such force and how to apply it requires first a close look at the nature of the violence to be defeated, that is, the unique deviant behavior of intra-species predation."

http://www.metahistory.org/RiteAction/openseason2.php


French version of metahistory.org here:
http://www.liberterre.fr/metahistoire/index.html

[ktlight]

John Lash unravels historical textural evidence exposing the cover-up, conspiracy and agenda behind the betrayal of humanity's spiritual heritage. Principals, he informs, deviated by a political system in the guise of religion. A religion modeled primarily from patriarchal domination; ignited by delusional beliefs, intimidation and the power of suffering; leaving in its wake a horrific legacy of conquest and conversion by violent force, suppression and hypocrisy. "Salvation history mirrors the hidden workings of our most narcissistic, self-destructive impulses." The rising tide of victimization that accompanied these beliefs, diluted our ancestors confidence in continuing to cultivate and live from their life affirming values, body-based morality and imaginative visionary endowments. His exposition cites evidence describing the source and motivation behind the tragic eradication of the Mystery Schools by these forces.


http://www.youtube.com/user/VeritasShow#p/c/6ED2376DBD01CA02/0/Ijg17r9Kxi8

[sister]

In part 5 of this interview, John Lash suggests reading The Meditations By Marcus Aurelius.
Here is a link to an online version:
http://classics.mit.edu/Antoninus/meditations.html

This is (in JLL's words) "The essence of Pagan ethics."

[JoeNashville]

In part 5 of this interview, John Lash suggests reading The Meditations By Marcus Aurelius.
Here is a link to an online version:
http://classics.mit.edu/Antoninus/meditations.html

This is (in JLL's words) "The essence of Pagan ethics."

He also often talks about the history of the word 'Pagan' it's true meaning and definition which is different from what is generally described in religious contexts. It's something I look forward to studying further.

[sister]

In part 5 of this interview, John Lash suggests reading The Meditations By Marcus Aurelius.
Here is a link to an online version:
http://classics.mit.edu/Antoninus/meditations.html

This is (in JLL's words) "The essence of Pagan ethics."

He also often talks about the history of the word 'Pagan' it's true meaning and definition which is different from what is generally described in religious contexts. It's something I look forward to studying further.



Hi Joe, maybe you've already seen this, but I will include it for discussion. Found it this AM while searching for the Marcus Aurelius info:
http://www.metahistory.org/Lexicon/lexicon_P.php

peace :)

[sister]

Long interview with John Lash on the webbot channel (April 2, 2011):
http://www.youtube.com/user/webbotforumcom?feature=mhum


In part 6 of this interview, Lash mentions how to properly engage an archon during an encounter and cites the Gnostic Catechism as the source of this wisdom. Here is the text of that document in part:

The Master said: James, behold, I shall reveal to you the path of your redemption. Whenever you are siezed and you undergo death-pangs (mortal fear), a multitude of Archons may turn on you, thinking they can capture you. And in particular, three of them will sieze you, those who pose as toll collectors. Not only do they demand toll, but they take away souls by theft.

Now, when you come under their power, one of them who is the overseer will say to you: "Who are you, and where are you from?"

You are then to say to him, "I am a child of humanity and I am from the Source."

He will then say to you, "What sort of child are you, and to what Source do you belong?"

You are to say to him, "I am from the pre-existent Source, and I am the offspring of the Source."

Then he will say to you, "Why were you sent out from the Source?"

Then you are to say to him, "I came from the Pre-existent One so that I might behold those of my kind and those who are alien."

And he will say to you, "What are these alien beings?"

You are to say to him: "They are not entirely alien, for they are from the Fallen Sophia (Achamoth), the female divinity who produced them when she brought the human race down from the Source, the realm of the Pre-Existent One. So they are not entirely alien, but they are our kin. They are indeed so because she who is their matrix, Sophia Achamoth, is from the Source. At the same time they are alien because Sophia did not combine with her like in the Source (her divine male counterpart), when she produced them."

When he also says to you, "Where will you go now?"

You are to say to him, "To the place when I came, the Source, there shall I return." And if you respond in this manner, you will escape their attacks.

(NHC V, 3. 33 - 34: 1- 25. Translation from NHLE 1990, pp. 265-6 and Kurt Rudolf, Gnosis, p. 174-5.)

(The original source of this instruction is The First Apocalypse of James (NHC V, 3), a revelation dialogue in which an unnamed teacher (the "Lord" or "Master") confers secret knowledge upon a Gnostic named James.)

More here:
http://www.metahistory.org/gnostique/archonfiles/GnosticCatechism.php

[Snowbird]

As of today, I own a copy of John Lash's book, Not in His Image, Gnostic Vision, Sacred Ecology, and the Future of Belief. I do realize that this is a rather sacrilegious statement, but I can't wait to start reading it with kitty on my lap.

This is not meant to hurt the feelings of anyone whose religious beliefs support this holiday. :angel:

[RedeZra]

it is an amazing thing that Christianity has survived for 2000 years


how on earth did Christianity survive

the Crucifixion of Christ and after that

some 300 years of persecution first from Jerusalem then from Rome


Back then they were feeding Christians to the lions as amusement


so how did it survive !

Who is guarding Christianity ?

and who is attacking it !


Do you know who you're up against ?

[jorr lundstrom]

it is an amazing thing that Christianity has survived for 2000 years


how on earth did Christianity survive

the Crucifixion of Christ and after that

some 300 years of persecution first from Jerusalem then from Rome


Back then they were feeding Christians to the lions as amusement


so how did it survive !

Who is guarding Christianity ?

and who is attacking it !


Do you know who you're up against ?

Christianity is an unbelieveable effective tool if you want to manipulate people.

The reason that it has survived 2000 years Im convinced is that the manipulated

has believed in it. And wot choice did they have, fully occupied with getting food

on the table. More astonishing I think it is that a lot of people still is down on their knees

praying and sacrificing to this sinister jahve. I really resonate with this Sofia myth. Its so

much more spacious than Crucianity. And its so down to earth or may I say soil.

And its a great pleasure to listen to John Lashs presentations of it. :hand:

[Herbert]

from Sister's post above: In part 6 of this interview, Lash mentions how to properly engage an archon during an encounter and cites the Gnostic Catechism as the source of this wisdom.

Thank You Sister.
This described interchange which you just posted parallels so closely what I experienced many years ago that I felt a moment of Aha. I was asked 4 questions and was guided carefully to the correct answers. The group identified themselves as The Old Ones and they asked:
Why are you here?
What is your purpose?
Whom do you serve?
Tell us, where are you going from here?

The answers were basically what is given in your post.

It was confusing at the time and felt like mental torchure but I never forgot the experience.

Coincidentally I just read the following today which seems very much to parallel the rules of perhaps, universal, laws.

http://www.activistpost.com/2011/04/5-words-used-to-control-enslave-you.html

The 5 Words Used to Control / Enslave You
Steven, Æ, Contributing Writer
Activist Post
April 17, 2011
Note: Many well-known freedom movement spokesmen/women have not been willing to fully discuss and expose this subject for reasons known only to them. Why? Because, they either think it is too trivial, they do not fully understand it or perhaps in their mind, it’s been debunked by an attorney, whom they give credence to, without doing their own thorough due diligence. It is also important to note that there are some well-intentioned lawyers who strive to assist in making our world a safer and better place for all to live. The intention of this article is to shine a bright light and empower you to help break the matrix grip.
First and foremost, it is vitally important to comprehend that everything in the business / commercial world is done by contract, both public and private. Secondly, relationships are also contractual — marital, parental and social (friendships). You both consciously and unconsciously verbally contract all day long, and when merited, in written form as well.
Words are understood to be very powerful and it is through spelling that spells are cast. However, it is a very misunderstood fact that words used in everyday language most often do not have the same meaning in a legal sense (contractual or court setting).
What are these 5 words that are used to control / enslave you? Person, resident, citizen, driver and passenger (all commercial terms). In my humble opinion, these 5 words are the keys to casting the spell in the attorneys’ legal jargon trickery. All commercial transactions / contracts have been designed to remove the men and women from the equation and replace with a legal fictional entity in the matrix system.
PERSON is a legal entity – a trust, corporation, partnership, association. Don’t be fooled by the attorney’s statutory word trickery if you see “natural person”. An adverb cannot change the root meaning of a word. Plain and simple, it is impossible to be a “person”. You are either a man or woman – a living being. A “person” is a dead entity and attorneys may only represent persons – commercial legal entities.
RESIDENT is the word term used to establish jurisdiction in a State (a legal entity). To “reside” is a commercial term only used to establish domicile for tax revenue purposes.
CITIZEN is the word term used to establish jurisdiction in a Federal district. It is also a commercial term only used to establish domicile for tax revenue purposes. The Internal Revenue Service (IRS) may only tax those people who have voluntarily deemed themselves internal to the district. Thus only legal entities have tax liability.
DRIVER is a For Hire / paid operator of a motor vehicle. The term “motor vehicle” is defined as every description of carriage or other contrivance propelled or drawn by mechanical power used for commercial purposes on the highways in the transportation of passengers, passengers and property, or property or cargo.
PASSENGER is someone who pays a fare for passage on a commercial carrier – airplane, bus, taxi, limousine, cruise ship, train or trolley, rather than a “guest” who travels without charge or fee.

It is necessary to go to the very root when looking at a complex problem. It is obvious that most politicians and their key staff are attorneys/lawyers, who are minions in servitude to the bankers. The simplest solution is to start removing the attorneys from office.
Take note of these quotes:
“In a recent conversation with an official at the Internal Revenue Service, I was amazed when he told me that ‘If the taxpayers of this country ever discover that the IRS operates on 90% bluff, the entire system will collapse’.” — Henry Bellmon, U.S. Senator (1969).
“Our tax system is based on individual self-assessment and voluntary compliance.” — Mortimer Caplin, former Commissioner of Internal Revenue, Internal Revenue Audit Manual (1975).
“Some people think the Federal Reserve Banks are U.S. government institutions. They are not … they are private credit monopolies which prey upon the people of the U.S. for the benefit of themselves and their foreign and domestic swindlers, and rich and predatory money lenders. The sack of the United States by the Fed is the greatest crime in history. Every effort has been made by the Fed to conceal its powers, but the truth is the Fed has usurped the government. It controls everything here and it controls all our foreign relations. It makes and breaks governments at will.” — Congressman Charles McFadden, Chairman, House Banking and Currency Committee, June 10, 1932.
“The real truth of the matter is, and you and I know, that a financial element in the large centers has owned the government of the U.S. since the days of Andrew Jackson. History depicts Andrew Jackson as the last truly honorable and incorruptible American president.” — President Franklin Delano Roosevelt, November 23, 1933 in a letter to Colonel Edward Mandell House.
“… our system of credit is concentrated … in the hands of a few men .. a power so organized, so subtle, so watchful, so interlocked, so complete, so pervasive, that [we had] better not speak above [our] breath when [we] speak in condemnation of it … We have come to be … completely controlled … by … small groups of dominant men.” — President Woodrow Wilson.
“The real rulers in Washington are invisible and exercise power from behind the scenes” — Felix Frankfurter, United States Supreme Court Justice.
“Give me control over a nation’s currency and I care not who makes its laws.” — Baron M.A. Rothschild (1744 – 1812)
The Solution for unraveling control in the matrix grip:
The NAME = all Capital letter designation – JOHN DOE or JANE DOE is the corporate legal entity = person (also known as – strawman).
This is not a trivial matter. The key to your freedom is to know that you are not this NAME / PERSON. The voluntary act of identifying yourself in a legal contractual setting without proper status declaration will continue your enslavement to the system. You are a living being.
There are 4 ways to respond when offered a contract – acceptance, conditional acceptance, rejection or going silent (acquiescence). The first two choices are honorable and the last two choices are dishonorable.
Why is a judge referred to as Your Honor? – It’s because he/she is weighing who is before him/her and remaining in honor . . . like a mirror and also weighing who will get into argument and therefore acting in dishonor.
Lessons in HONOR AND DISHONOR
You will always lose unless you abide by the rules of the matrix game. You will probably lose even if you use the rules, because you will argue and that is what the “controllers” want you to do, argue. When you argue, you are in dishonor. This is unfortunately how we’ve been conditioned.
Forget about the law. The law is only for those that have violated some tenet of commerce.
Remember, everything in this world is a contract. When you go to the store to purchase a quart of milk, you are about to enter into a contract. When you pick up the milk and pay for it, the clerk will give you a receipt. This receipt is the title to the quart of milk. If you discard the receipt before you leave the store and you leave the store, you could be charged with stealing since you do not have the title to the milk.
You will probably begin to argue. Once you begin to argue, you are in dishonor and when you are in dishonor nothing matters except getting back in honor.
Here is a Biblical story example: Jesus came upon the land to teach people how to operate in commerce. His main purpose was to save us from our dishonor. Yet we persist in this dishonor by acquiring things, which we are treating as little demigods.
One of the best lessons Jesus taught was by his example. On his trip to Galilee, he encountered three beggars, who called out and said “Jesus, heal us”! They were offering Jesus a contract.
There are four possible ways in which to answer when one is offered a contract.
a. Agree to the contract and you are in honor.
b. Remain silent (is consider insolent) and therefore you are in dishonor.
c. To argue about the contract is a dishonor. That is why the courts want you to have an attorney. Attorneys argue and get you in dishonor. They are there to turn you in!
d. Doing a novation is like bargaining and it is a conditional acceptance. For example, if a merchant is selling apples for one dollar each and you want an apple, but you don’t want to pay a dollar, you may offer fifty cents. This is bartering, not dishonor and you are remaining in honor. You have just placed the merchant in the position of having to make one of the same four choices on how to answer. You will probably walk away and he will lose the sale if he declines by arguing or remaining silent. He lost because he dishonored you. He remains in honor if he chooses ‘d’.
Getting back to the lesson. The beggars offered Jesus a contract. Jesus replied, “What would you have me do?” He is now doing a novation to the contract. Before he can comply, he has to know what the contract requires. The beggars then re-offered the contract to Jesus by saying, “make us see”. He then agreed by saying, “you are healed”. The beggars and Jesus were always in honor and the contract was completed and everyone was satisfied.
In a court setting, you should re-offer the Judge, by stating: Your Honor, I conditionally accept your offer to give you a NAME upon Proof of Claim that if I do so, it will not bind me to any contract with the State of XYZ (whatever jurisdiction you are supposedly in). The judge will keep trying to get you into contract. You must continue to conditionally accepting the judge’s offer by continually repeating, upon Proof of whatever Claim they are making.
The case is The State of XXY v. JOHN DOE. The judge asks you…How do you plead, Guilty or Not Guilty? or he may say Responsible or Not Responsible? Your answer: Your honor, I conditionally accept your offer to plead upon Proof of Claim that the State of XYX is an injured or the State of XYZ and I have a contract and upon Proof of Claim that the XYZ on the complaint, in all upper case letters is not a legal fiction and upon Proof of Claim that, I, a living being, am a corporation.
PRESUMPTION
The people of the courts and all levels of government presume that you are a corporation because all courts and governments are legal fictions and following the law of like kind can only deal with other legal fictions or incompetent persons. All government codes/statutes (laws) deal only with persons, corporations, trusts, partnerships or other like entities. They are not real. They only exist on paper (in form). They do not exist in the physical sense (substance).
A city, a county and a state have lines drawn on a map that show (what they claim to be) their jurisdiction. There are buildings that are referred to as schools, courts, offices and other titles. They are real because they are made with gravel, cement, wood and other physical materials. The government is a fiction created from a man’s imagination. It is of course not real, and only an image in people’s minds. It cannot do anything without the physical man. The physical man has a “go between” and that “go between” is a legal fiction. It is a transmitting utility. Just like the electric power company manufactures electrical power for business or home use, the transmission lines are the transmitting utility that connects them together. The person – legal entity – strawman – all capital letter name fictional corporation is the transmitting utility between the flesh and blood man and the government and its agencies.
Presumption comes into play when you receive a contract from the government, a police officer, court, etc., and if you do not correct them, they will presume that you are the all capital letter NAME – legal entity. It is when you don’t correct them that the presumption becomes a stipulation of fact.
STIPULATION
A stipulation is an agreement that the facts of the case are not in dispute and therefore will not and cannot be addressed from the point of stipulation. The way that you get into a contract is by doing something that you may be unaware of . . . like a drivers license. You are offering the State to allow you to operate a vehicle in a commercial venture on the roadways within the State, when you apply for a driver’s license.
Whomever offers the contract has the energy or the power because they are the Creditor. The one who is being offered the contract is the Debtor. You always want to be the Creditor. Now, while you are operating the vehicle in commerce, you violate a rule (law) that you agreed to abide by accepting the license.
You were the Creditor when you applied for a license, and were in honor. They were the Debtor. Then they re-offered you the license, making them the Creditor and you the Debtor. Everyone is still in honor when you accepted the license (contract). When you violate some rule (law), you are in dishonor and have to go to a hearing (court). Once again, you are going through the same rules. Honor and dishonor.
CONDITIONAL ACCEPTANCE
Condition yourself to remember that everything is a contract. When somebody offers you a contract and you do not like the terms, simply re-offer or counter-offer. When a debt collector sends a letter / a collection notice that is a contract. You now have the choices of a, b, c, and d. What are you going to do? The thing not to do is argue or remain silent. You must re-offer in a timely manner.
“Mr. Debt Collector, I conditionally accept your offer to pay the debt indicated, upon Proof of Claim that you are the owner of the debt and upon Proof of Claim that you and I have a signed contract.
When a police officer pulls you over and offers you a ticket for speeding, the ticket is a contract. When he asks you to sign the ticket, stating that you promise to appear at a certain date, that is a contract. You may properly do two things.
1. You may demand that the police officer takes you to a Judge/Magistrate immediately or;
2. You may sign the ticket: All rights reserved, UCC 1-308, and then sign the Name below what you just wrote on the ticket. This action allows you 72 hours to rescind the contract. A widely recognized and universal law of commerce is that contracts can be canceled within 72 hours. Many contracts include a document titled “notice of rescission.” The buyer, in most cases, must execute / sign and date the document and get it into the possession of the seller in order to properly rescind the sale.
If you are arrested and taken before a Magistrate, he/she will ask you to state your Name. The Magistrate is making you an offer to enter their jurisdiction. Next you will be invited to sign the paper the clerk offers you. You will be in a contract if you sign it.
Remember, if you are about to go into court, it is vitally important to declare that you are not a corporation prior to a hearing or trial. Otherwise, the judge will find your silence on that point a fact and then proceed under the presumption that you are a corporation.
Please remember, you are not a Name. You are a very powerful living being when in honor.
One, known as Steven, Æ spiritual Living Being having a human experience. One lives “life in this realm” intentionally and loves, honors and respects all Universal beings as One. He does not have to prove the negative, rather One just needs to know to not get trapped with controlling words and jargon designed as such. One is not a person, not a subject or citizen nor has any allegiance to any country, State or States in contract, not a U.S. Citizen or National, not a civilian, not a resident, not a legal entity dolus trust, not an enemy combatant, and One is not a member of any Jural, political or religious society/body. Be it also known that “person” is a word of the Private Civil Law, and a “man” is a word of nature.

[RedeZra]

The reason that it has survived 2000 years Im convinced is that the manipulated

has believed in it.

still it doesn't answer how Christianity survived it's first 300 years of persecution

it oughta be plucked up by it's roots really a long time ago

but it's still here


somewhat perverted perhaps

but what can one expect after 2000 years amongst mankind hehe



Sofia was stacked away as a Christian heresy in Nag Hammadi when the Nicene Creed became the only legitimate Roman religion in 380 AD

So they found the forgotten Gnostic books again in Egypt


But if the Gnostic gospel wasn't true back then it's probably not true now


A fascinating read maybe and nothing more ; )

[RedeZra]

I was asked 4 questions and was guided carefully to the correct answers. The group identified themselves as The Old Ones and they asked:
Why are you here?
What is your purpose?
Whom do you serve?
Tell us, where are you going from here?

The answers were basically what is given in your post.

It was confusing at the time and felt like mental torchure but I never forgot the experience.



So how are the Old Ones these days ?

[sister]

it is an amazing thing that Christianity has survived for 2000 years


how on earth did Christianity survive

the Crucifixion of Christ and after that

some 300 years of persecution first from Jerusalem then from Rome


Back then they were feeding Christians to the lions as amusement


so how did it survive !

Who is guarding Christianity ?

and who is attacking it !


Do you know who you're up against ?

:offtopic:
In my opinion, it would be great if we could manage to keep the discussion in this thread focused on the topic of John Lash. There must be dozens of places on the Avalon forum where you can discuss the topic of salvationist religion to your heart's content. I (for one) have no interest in the subject, nor do I have the intention of addressing this matter any further.

Thank you!

[RedeZra]

In my opinion, it would be great if we could manage to keep the discussion in this thread focused on the topic of John Lash. There must be dozens of places on the Avalon forum where you can discuss the topic of salvationist religion to your heart's content. I (for one) have no interest in the subject, nor do I have the intention of addressing this matter any further.


truth is not topical

if you want to see the Big picture then step back from the topics and the pieces


if you're not trying to sell a Gnostic world view then you should have no problem with arguements against it

[sister]

truth is not topical

if you want to see the Big picture then step back from the topics and the pieces


if you're not trying to sell a Gnostic world view then you should have no problem with arguements against it

Thanks for the suggestion, but if I wanted your opinion or advice I would have asked for it.

[RedeZra]

truth is not topical

if you want to see the Big picture then step back from the topics and the pieces


if you're not trying to sell a Gnostic world view then you should have no problem with arguements against it

Thanks for the suggestion, but if I wanted your opinion or advice I would have asked for it.

?

I'm not a Privy Counsellor and you're not the Queen

[thunder24]

here we go again...
peace

[ThePythonicCow]

if you're not trying to sell a Gnostic world view then you should have no problem with arguments against it

It is fitting and proper, in my view, for various threads to have a particular focus, and for us to ask that dissent or alternative views on a thread be kept modest in length and repetition, so as not to unduly distract a thread from its main focus.

If you wish to develop an alternative perspective more fully, I would suggest doing so on a separate thread.

[Decibellistics]

hrmmm.....didn't know all these people would have enjoyed this viewpoint so much. Thanks to those old and new.

Gnosticism is a thought which states that Yaldaboath or Yahweh is actually a sociopathic narcissistic God that feeds off of the glorification of human suffering in part. That is how Christianity has survived for 2000 years. Because we have billions of people on the planet worshiping an Archon or a false god or an inorganic being or an ET or what have you that thinks it is the Source and feeds off of negative energy we see running so rampant on our planet.

Or that is what they want you to think. The whole concept of Gnostic thinking is that that Yahweh was a false god who believed he was the almighty. Because there were not only Christian Gnostics but also schools of Judaic Gnostics as well. Now the question arises.....are the people that control the systems which humans are told to abide by practicing deep black Hermetic Magic along with other forms of Mystery teachings with the likes of Alistair Crowley and the such. Interestingly enough though, if you look at the very first incantation within the Lesser Keys of Solomon or the Goetia there is a strikingly similar reference to some Bornless Spirit that has done the exact same things that Yahweh is said to have done and through the power of this God one can invoke the spirits of the Earth and utilize them for what the magician pleases. Is this possible.....beats me, haven't ****ed with the Goetia before.

But if you take John Lash's thinking. The sickness of believing this way is very much contractible disease. It isn't so much that they are sacrificing babies constantly in order to bring about a 6th dimensional Daemon spawn to suck out the life-force....though this is probably possible.

It is that there are administrators to the disease and they help it to spread by reinforcing the ideas behind what Yahweh is. What they do is they trap ones mind into two modes of thinking, at least that I have observed. One mode of thinking is the self guilt construct, the inability to correct one's ****edupness, the individual suffering in the name of God, the utmost surrender of one's personal power. This is what I would consider the most common and easily witnessed form of control put onto the human psyche. The other form would be the sociopathic narcissistic self important construct of Yahwehnism lol that puts oneself on a pedastal of power. I personally think that the people at the very top have taken this thinking construct to its utmost limit and have more or less orchestrated a vastly intricate and subtle system that simply plays off of these thought constructs.
For instance, I totally think that Charles' attempt to get Bill to believe that he is a descendant of a particular bloodline which is directly related to the Holy Grail etc etc etc. is in fact a plot by the Powers to get Bill to contribute a bit of his life-force into this form of thinking as well as to cause a massive emotional upheaval of negativity virtually in order to feed into this thought construct we know as Yahweh. Or.....maybe I am bat**** crazy. Because both of these two constructs create extremely similar divisions in that. First, if you feel guilty and feel as if you are suffering so on and so forth, then you are going to seek the higher power that presents its gifts to you. In other words......you don't address the inherent flaws within your psyche.....you allow someone or something else to do it. We see this in the Church, the Government, our Parents, and on and on and on.....practically every social institution. I'm ****ed can you fix the problem....its the American way......

The other is the concept of creating a division between feeling self important and having those below you. This is what we see in the supposed pyramidal structure of the control system.

In essence they are the exact reciprocal of one another.

Basically what I am arguing here is the basic concept that any form of religion that designates Yahweh as the original creator being is a form of religion that is false and that the Illuminati, Rosicrucians, Masons, and all these other cults are basically worshippers of Yahweh....not Lucifer. And I am not a Luciferian lol nor am I a Gnostic.

Needless to say, not pointing the fingers, just kinda climbing out of the wood work to voice an opinion based on observation and studies.

Don't fall for the trap of the Archons. We are neither powerless nor important. But we are connected to the divine source from which we all truly originated. Seek FREEDOM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! both internally and externally

It is really late, and this is very poorly written for which I apologize.....I need to finish some Citations for my Pulse Code Modulation Paper.

P.S. This is why there are very very few Gnostic Thinkers alive on this planet......because the Early Christians killed there asses for believing this way.
Adios ya'll

[RedeZra]

Gnosticism is a thought which states that Yaldaboath or Yahweh is actually a sociopathic narcissistic God that feeds off of the glorification of human suffering in part.

yes it is true that God known to us as YHWH from the Old Testament and the Father of Jesus Christ in The New Testament destroyed the child sacrificing cults working out of Caanan

Do you have a problem with that ?

[Decibellistics]

Ya I do.

He forgot the bankers, and the pedophile priests, the murderers of unarmed civilians, the corrupt institutions, the lies the cheats and the steals, so on and so forth. Yahweh has a lot of catching up to do for 2000 years of work. ;)

That or he wants it to be this way.........because to kill a group of people off that say the opposite of what someone else's sect says is right and then go on to not kill off the group of people that are directly screwing the world over and going directly against what Jesus or God would do makes absolutely no sense in my mind.
Educate me.
At face value, the people that were right were killed off and now this sociopathic disease as Lash would term it has run rampant because the Thought Construct of Yahweh is embedded too deeply into the humans that allow it to be.

But seriously......I love you.

[RedeZra]

Ya I do.

He forgot the bankers, and the pedophile priests, the murderers of unarmed civilians, the corrupt institutions, the lies the cheats and the steals, so on and so forth. Yahweh has a lot of catching up to do for 2000 years of work. ;)


No He does not forget

still He forgives if they change their ways


perhaps you remember reading in the Bible that the Israelites were sent to spend 400 years in Egypt before they would inherit Caanan


400 years is plenty of time to amend or fill the cup of wrath to the brim


if God was to strike down on every crime as they are being comitted then not only would He negate natural laws but also our free will


No He does not forget still He is soon to forgive


I love you too ; )

[VERITAS]

Hello everyone.

The continuation to last show airs this week (Friday, April 29, 2011):

http://www.veritasshow.com/images/promojlash2011.jpg

In it, there will be a few bombshells. I'm so glad there is no censorship. Some people may be offended by some of what John Lash will say, but the truth is the truth.

Best wishes to all,

Mel

[ktlight]

"S y n o p s i s
We continue our discussion with another chapter of a fascinating view of meanings in a sacred history long, and wrongly suppressed. John Lash brings back his historical and anthropological erudition. We discussed how the indigenous people of America have been conquered converted into Christianity against their will. But let's not forget what beliefs they had before. Beliefs that put honor first. Many wonder how the indigenous people from Europe and America were so easily converted. They were the victims of false promises, and since they could not understand how other human beings lacked honor, they believed. People should not do harm because they will face punishment by a god but because doing harm is dishonorable. According to John Lash, on March 18, 2011 Gaia/Sophia/Earth got out of course and issued an S.O.S. to the center of the galaxy. Some say that we need to let others wake up. John Lash has no patience for inaction and believes he carries an enormous responsibility of knowledge that he wishes to disseminate as widely as possible."


http://www.youtube.com/user/VeritasShow#p/c/EBEEC4114EAF4240/0/FtercotdLMY

[Carmen]

I love the word 'honour' and more especially the meaning of it. To be honourable, to live in an honourable way with honourable people. Its about self responsibility, self respect. Only people with self respect for themselves can be honourable. In a forum with the name "Avalon" honour is very pertinent. The code of Honour of knights of old.

[eaglespirit]

I was asked by Sister to bring this here also...Enjoy : )

Wisdom's Dare: The Future of a Divine Experiment...John Lamb Lash
http://www.realitysandwich.com/wisdoms_dare_future_divine_experiment

That moment is now: the consumation of the works of deceit, of the illusions of power. The moment when Wisdom's dare, calling deceit to the end of its works, is enacted. This is the moment to ask, What is the supreme threat to the divine experiment of human potential on this planet? I submit that Sophia herself, being a Pleromic Aeon, wishes humanity to recognize her radiant primary presence, Organic Light, and to respect the symbiotic web of life in the habitat she provides, her planetary body. Above and beyond that, she wishes that we realize her laws, principles of Pleromic order, namely, the free energy dynamics at the root of the natural world.

With application of free energy dynamics, humanity would be able to create an harmonious social order based on mutual aid and fair distribution of terrestrial bounty. Would it be too much to imagine that discovery and application of free energy dynamics would be crucial to the success of the divine experiment, on Sophia's terms? For a moment, just imagine it could be that way.

And then imagine the scenario that might unfold if that small faction of people terminally infected with the archontic virus, the Zaddikim-Zionist vector, acquired the use of free energy dynamics and turned it into a weapon against the rest of the human race, in service to their anti-human, anti-life, anti-freedom, anti-goddess agenda. In service to murderous insanity. That is the ultimate threat to the divine experiment, and that is exactly what has happened on this planet, 9/11 being the proof.

So, I assert that correction happens right now because the moment when the ultimate threat becomes a reality is also the moment when the myth comes true and the dare of the wisdom goddess can be enacted for the future of the divine experiment on earth by those who engage her story.


John Lamb Lash
Metahistory.org
http://www.metahistory.org/siteauthor.php

[sister]

John Lash interview on Red Ice Radio, July 21 2011

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0UG2HhIxuHs

[Calz]

John Lamb has been a strong voice for the forgotten and suppressed gnostic version of truth as the meaning for life.

Thanks to anyone and all who delve into this important part of who we are as humanity.

[sister]

Orientation talk for the Gaian navigation experiment on Grok the Talk, July 25, 2011:
http://www.blogtalkradio.com/grok-the-talk/2011/07/29/planetary-tantra-9
(This is actually the 9th interview in the series, but it's a good place to start if you have not been listening right along)

Part 2 here, from July 27, 2011:
http://www.blogtalkradio.com/grok-the-talk/2011/07/30/planetary-tantra-10

[sister]

Here you will find the essays JLL refers to in part 1 of Grok the Talk, Promise of a Lonely Planet:

One: Star Birth and Simulation
http://www.metahistory.org/gnostique/archonfiles/PlanetPromise1.php

Two: The Passion of Sophia
http://www.metahistory.org/gnostique/archonfiles/PlanetPromise2.php

Three: Stalking the Anthropos
http://www.metahistory.org/gnostique/archonfiles/PlanetPromise3.php

From the site:
"The Promise of a Lonely Planet is a three-part essay closely related to the material under Gaia-Sophia and presents advanced commentary on it. Here is another view on the emergence of our alien cosmic cousins, the Archons, more on the teleography of the Aeon Sophia, and exploratory suggestions on the tricky issue of the human archetype/genome, the Anthropos."

[eaglespirit]

Be RUTHLESS With GOODNESS...Belligerently Ruthless EVERY Moment Now!!!

http://www.youtube.com/v/C0UnvUacwSQ

[stardustaquarion]

I found this amazing material in Camelots forum and since I have been working on understanding why I feel for the cult of Ashayana Deane (more info in the KS group here) I decided to share it with an open mind as I was at one joyful point involved with the Gnostics who offered a very sound perspective of life and living

This videos explain the Myth of Sophia and Sophia's correction which are part of the Nag Hammadi Dead Sea Scrolls. In other words is the only document of a real myth of creation of the Human Race

LorjZibQMX0

http://www.redicecreations.com/radio/2011/07/RIR-110721.php

Well worth the time spent listening! Here is John Lamb Lash website http://www.metahistory.org/ where he explaind about planetary tantra and also you will find the whole myth of Sophia

I also found this post of another Kseer leaving Keylontic Sciences
Re: The Archons – Alien Invaders From Space
#57468 0 minutes ago
Isn't it wonderful that John Lamb Lash has gifted us with this wonderful record of our origings that set the slate clean for the human race and planet earth! I guess that the best of all is that there is a REAL WRITTEN RECORD that puts to dust works like Ashayana Deane and her fearmongering cult

Yes I know I was a follower of her but I did not had much to go by but the holy books that we know have been tampered with

The most amazing thing is to discover that the ARCHONS are the GREY ALIENS and they hate humanity for their missery

Ashayana Deane have described the guardian alliance as bold, with big slanted eyes, withish transparent in nature, thoothless and bretharian...that sounds to me like the grey aliens...she herself has admitted in her books that she was abducted by the grey alliance and that later was abducted by the "good" grey aliens

What a difference between a cosmogony which empower us as a beautiful race so fascinating that a goddes fell from heaven and became planet Earth...wow

Instead Ashayana Deane only talks about how horrible we are and how much we have fallen and how tampered we are with etc., etc. I have rebaptized her as "All Doom" or AD

It has been a hard awakening for me but worth it, no more silly techniques that do not work and constant buying of new workshops to "clean up the dirt in me". She has a 7 numbers anual turnover...so much for saving the planet

Looking forward to see how Sophia's correction pan out and good time to dust off those shamanic drums and have a good party
unquote

:cool:

[DNA]

Really good stuff.
My avatar is an omahge if you will to the Gnostic creation story, the hint being my handle here DNA.
The snake is offering an upgrade if you will.

Archon stuff starts at 0:41:49


At one hour he starts talking about the emergence of both greys and reptillians.
I wish he would give a source as to where one could find these references in the coptic literature.


Okay at a little over an hour in he cites the gnostic texts as saying "creature from the dark" means creature from inorganic matter. Now,,,,I don't speak ancient coptic,,,but that sounds like a bit of a stetch as far as I'm concerned.

[araucaria]

The great merit of John Lash’s analysis is that it keeps things simple, verifiable and immediately applicable on the broadest scale, i.e

a) we are an earth-based life form and whatever else we do we need to be grounded – no need even to look out of the window to see that.

b) we are not astronauts on ‘Spaceship Earth’: we are a part of Gaia/Sophia evolving in a solar system – no need to be even self-aware for that to be immediately relevant.

c) Sophia comes directly from the originator of the solar system, i.e. the galactic centre; whatever is going on in other star systems is of secondary importance, and in other galaxies of tertiary importance – although these are positive background influences.

d) whatever else is going on, Gaia is coming under fierce ecological attack and needs to defend herself (that is, we need to) – I think most people except the oil cartel have realized that much.

e) the sun is the other major player in this solar system and continues to be a crucial and massively beneficial element in our life-support system – no wonder it is getting a bad press these days.

f) the negative forces, here the archons, are strictly solar system-based anomalous entities. If we are to overcome their influence on ourselves, it is useful to realize that, quite apart from their scope being extremely limited as mere imitators, their territory is also highly restricted. Humans originate from the galactic centre, whereas the archons originated right here.

Although only dealing relatively speaking with our neck of the woods, as big pictures go this is quite big enough for the time being, and strikes me as common ground for us all to be working on – with no need for any of the more exotic stuff that is being bandied about, Ashayana Deane being a leading exponent of that. Not all of it is wrong, but so much of it is contradictory: we don’t need to worry about any of that.

This is a platform on which many many allegedly unaware people have been working for quite some time. You don’t need to be into new age and conspiracy theory to be able to be effective at this level. This should be good news to anyone who is not trying to be a priest of this new religion. If we just focus on this much, we can sort this out. The silent majority is not silent.

[The One]

This is a really important message that Cosmic Gnostic fully supports. John Lamb Lash has stepped up to the plate to break through with the true truth about 9/11 and has set a challange to the crop circle wizards out there who also have the same free energy technologies used on 9/11; Come out and help the world realize what really happened.

“Ten years after September 2001 comes the unparalleled opportunity for a breakthrough, the moment when “9/11 truth” is finally seen in scientific veracity and a dream comes true: the dream of free energy. Here is a challenge to own the truth that can set us free as a species. May the wizards give us a sign.” – JLL August 30, 2011

Here is his presentation and challange to the crop circle wizards.

3m2Oc5OZ9f0

[cloud9]

Wow! It makes a lot of sense! I really hope the Wizards answer the call.

[mojo]

Thanks again The One, I watched Dr Woods video a while back and was amazed at her story about the events of 911. Thanks for posting this as it supports her work. I hope she gets an interview with Kerry or Bill so we can hear more.

[aranuk]

Me too Cloud9! And One once again I say you are the number 1 poster here on Avalon Sir! Thank you on behalf of the human race.

Stan

[mahalall]

Is the next layer of the truth onion FREE DIRECTED CONSCIOUS ENERGY.

[apokalypse]

recommended

Comparative mythologist, author and teacher John Lash returns to the program to discuss the Archons, from the Nag Hammadi perspective. He’ll discuss the alien intrusion of the mind parasite and the predatory species. John tells us the origins of the Archons and how they existed before the Earth. According to the Nag Hammadi, the Archons envy us and wanted to breed with us. This idea is quite different than Sitchin’s work. John says the Archons did not succeed and moved to plan B: “we’ll get them to become like us.” This takes us into the transhumanist agenda, an agenda that the Archons desire. We’ll talk about why as well as their tactics using the false show of magic and virtual reality. Also, how the Archon predatory species intrudes though other means such as religion and belief systems. Then, John talks about Sophia’s gift to us to protect ourselves from the Archontic forces. Lash brings up the new age religion of ET as manipulation by Archons. We’ll talk about knowing the enemy, knowing the mission and the defense. Later, we discuss the transhumanist’s fear of death, denial of humanity and insanity.

http://www.redicecreations.com/radio/2011/10/RIR-111002.php

[Anno]

Excellent. Opinion is quite split on whether they're aliens or spirits. There've been a few random outbreaks of conversation about it recently. Another opinion is always welcome.

[Mark]

An excellent interview. I have been into Sitchin for decades now, but the Archons ... something about this resonates. My research into Casteneda's work with Don Juan and the intensity of the blowback in the attempt to discredit him - I have a tome of refuters and debunkers claiming he lied and made it up and this and that - actually confirms this idea of the Archons through the mechanism of the Foreign Installation, also called the Night Flyer. Good stuff. Thanks for posting.

[Calz]

Love John Lash.

From Veritas (public portions):

http://www.veritasshow.com/guests/2011/04apr/VS-110429-jlash.php

http://www.veritasshow.com/guests/2010/12dec/VS-101203-jlash.php

From Jay Weidner:

The Gnostic mysteries have found a new and eloquent champion in John Lash.”
- Graham Hancock, author of Fingerprints of the Gods

View Trailer (embedded below)

In this fascinating DVD, John Lamb Lash, comparative mythologist and author of the classic book, Not In His Image, offers an examination of the truths hidden deep within the ancient Gnostic sects of Europe. Two thousand years ago the Pagan religion of Gnosticism was one of the world's largest religious belief systems. The Gnostics held a deep reverence for the earth in all its wonder and beauty. In contrast to the teachings of the patriarchal and monotheistic religious traditions, the Gnostic creation mythos was centered upon the compelling story of the Wisdom Goddess Sophia. This knowledge, which offers us new insight into the power of the earth as a vital living being, has been brought forth today as a fundamental part of the Gaia theory.

The Gnostics had many beliefs that were considered heretical by the emerging Christian populations of classical Europe. John Lamb Lash acquaints us with their unique perspective on the nature of human experience and the destructive power of the mysterious beings they called the Archons whose dark influence has led to the fear-based, chaotic character of the times in which we live. By assisting us in comprehending the Gnostics vast knowledge of nature, the Earth, and the intimate relationship between the Goddess Sophia, and we who are her creation, he reconnects us with our ancient heritage and offers a sacred path toward the future.

“The Gnostic mysteries have found a new and eloquent champion in John Lash.”
-Graham Hancock, author of "Fingerprints of the Gods"

“Lash's historical and anthropological erudition are breathtaking”
-Colin Wilson, author of "The Outsider"

“Sacred Mysteries delivers once again in a most spectacular way. It has been reported elsewhere that James Cameron spent over $300 million on the film Avatar to bring the very same ideas forward that John Lamb Lash presents in this 60 minute interview. I can say quite clearly that he turns mainstream religious ideas on their head. I do recommend this film as the real thing. It will continue to make you think long after the film is over.”
-New Dawn Magazine

JOHN LAMB LASH is one of the foremost exponents of the power of myth to direct and shape an individual's life, as well as history itself. Described as the true successor of Mircea Eliade, John is a lifelong student of world mythology, Tantra, the pre-Christian Mysteries, alchemy, and naked-eye astronomy. His published works include The Seeker's Handbook: The Complete Guide to Spiritual Pathfinding, Twins and the Double, The Hero - Manhood and Power, Quest for the Zodiac, and Not in His Image. John has lectured widely in the United States and Europe.

Trailer:

nSBcEkIwpSk

http://store.sacredmysteriesmarketplace.com/dvds/sophia-returning-the-path-to-planetary-tantra.html

... lastly his *amazing* book:

http://www.amazon.com/Not-His-Image-Gnostic-Ecology/dp/193149892X/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1317916259&sr=1-1

[Moxie]

Very happy to see a thread started on John Lamb Lash of metahistory. org. You can spend quite a bit of time there getting familiar w/his work which I do encourage everyone to do.

I chanced upon his work a few months ago and am completely captivated. Informative, empowering... just last night in the wee hours I listened to the first 5 parts of 20 of the October 1st interview w/Time Monk Radio...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SV55S74jKns&feature=uploademail
it's a little slow to get started but around pt 3 - 5 will have you nodding your head in recognition of what he talks about. It's essentially a Q & A w/his "crew" members.
Being familiar with his work allows one to follow along better, so starting with metahistory.org is your beginning.

[Moxie]

You can listen to archived shows here:
http://www.blogtalkradio.com/grok-the-talk

[Calz]

To the gnostics what mattered was *truth* ... and I am sure that resonates with many avalonians.

[truthseekerdan]

To the gnostics what mattered was *truth* ... and I am sure that resonates with many avalonians.

At least they had the mysteries knowledge, and more, of what we call "truth"...

[jorr lundstrom]

nb-UfYQ9NI8

[Moxie]

Probably THE most important issue right now!
Thank you Jorr for the boost of this topic!
I'll be back soon... it's past my bedtime.

[Moxie]

It's a perfect example of human imagination putting together a plausible narrative after examining empirical evidence such as the work of Dr. Judy Wood re: 9/11 and making the connection to crop circles.

Here we have the evil (human) masterminds responsible for weaponizing free energy technology on nine eleven leaving its chemical traces that also appear in crop circles and John Lash is proposing that the REAL message in the symbols is the one that is announcing that "we in fact, have developed free energy technology too and we are demonstrating it in a benign and benevolent way". Perhaps there is no other hidden meaning behind them other than the discovery of the manner in which they are being made! Fantastic!!!

BOTH of the humans behind these demonstrations, 9/11 and crop circles, are well hidden, the first - 9/11 because of its evil intent, the masterminds are well cloaked by their mostly unwitting minions, the ones involved with actual production, field testing, funding, more than likely not aware of their hand in its eventual use for such a psychotic purpose because of compartmentalization.

Then we have the crop circle makers, with their own means, having also developed free energy technology and are also well hidden because of the huge political suppression surrounding the technology, in our history as far back as 200 yrs. (Faraday/Tesla).

The call has gone out to the crop circle makers... give us a clear message that you are demonstrating free energy technology!

The first half of the video posted in the thread opener is an incredibly good introduction to Dr Wood's work and I can see that both John Lash and Judy Wood have THE most important comprehensive scope of information for mankind that is current to what humanity is facing today!

[grannyfranny100]

Thanks for turning me on to Grok The Talk. The combination of Dr Judy Wood and John Lash was stunning and I have started listening to other first rate interviews, too.

[ThePythonicCow]

Thanks for turning me on to Grok The Talk. The combination of Dr Judy Wood and John Lash was stunning and I have started listening to other first rate interviews, too.
Yes - that's an excellent discussion between those two.

Grok The Talk's website seems to be here: http://www.blogtalkradio.com/grok-the-talk

[Cidersomerset]

Thanks Jorr Lundrem....Moxie put this vid on the 8th oct so some have all ready seen it but not enough imho, great interlink between John Lash and Juddy Wood this is my reply on That thread...



Hi moxie good thread I came across Judy Wood via a John Lear interview a few years ago, and Johns been saying the star wars weapons platforms have been orbiting since the 80/90's.
now going from there Judy Woods theory makes perfect sence. Most of the other interviews I heard with Judy, Veritas, blog radio etc. She always stipulated she would not speculate on the
on the who? and why? But keep to the scientific facts as she knew them. In this interview maybe because of John Lash's presence she joined in more with the speculation which I found interesting.

I think they were a little hard on Richard Gage who I think is genuine. Richards theory is plausible for the public to get there head around, and at least they have put it into millions of peoples reality, that things are not what they seem and 16 muslim terrorists with box cutters and minimal flight training is very implausible....Now most people in the alternate community could easily switch, to more exotic weaponry. If we believe in ET's , Space fleet, there is no problem imho.

Richard Gage also tries not to speculate on the who? and the why? all he knew is as an architect, the collapse of Towers & building 7 did not feel right, and if you follow his logic
their theory is perfectly sound.He is aware of Judy and her work ,but is not ready to go there, because the press would have a field day ridiculing him as 'Star Trek' dreamer etc.
As I said for me exotic weapons theory makes much more sence , as Judy says alot of truthers are debunking her, but thats because everywhere is infiltrated by service to selfe people,
as she said people in the petrol chemical buisiness, do not want free energy exposed.

The PTB are monitoring all this and are one step ahead of all of us. As they said Judges are scared of this subject so are presumably the FBI. The immiediate perportrators are Chainey
and the gang and as John Lash says the people controlling them, may have increased the magnitude of the attack...We would call them TPTB, that mysterious group, that we use
for most things, who we know must exist , but we are not 100% sure who they are, Rothchild Bankers, anciant Annunaki Bloodlines, ET's , A powerful cabel ?????

Judy an John make a lot of sense and I think they are probably right, but how you get this out into the general public without ridicule without more evidence or a major disclosure.
is a big headache for me. Thats why I would not 'slag off' Richards Gages effort for at least this is keeping it in the public eye. Steven Jones and the scientists may have more to answer
for their hostility towards Judy Wood. I feel the majority of us know all this adds up to divide and conquer by TPTB, so we must keep the pressure up as best we can by discussing it with who ever

[jorr lundstrom]

Thanks for turning me on to Grok The Talk. The combination of Dr Judy Wood and John Lash was stunning and I have started listening to other first rate interviews, too.

Yeah, there are a lot of mindblowing interviews on Grok the Talk.
Thomas Malone and John Lash are planning more revieling sessions. LOL

[jorr lundstrom]

Kicking some stones. I came across these:

http://www.truthwinds.com/siterun_data/government/fraud/911_attack/news.php?q=1252943675

http://www.thepeoplesvoice.org/cgi-bin/blogs/voices.php/2007/12/21/p21997

http://800pg.co.cc/geeklog/staticpages/index.php?page=911

[EYES WIDE OPEN]

Thanks Jorr Lundrem....Moxie put this vid on the 8th oct so some have all ready seen it but not enough imho, great interlink between John Lash and Juddy Wood this is my reply on That thread...



Hi moxie good thread I came across Judy Wood via a John Lear interview a few years ago, and Johns been saying the star wars weapons platforms have been orbiting since the 80/90's.
now going from there Judy Woods theory makes perfect sence. Most of the other interviews I heard with Judy, Veritas, blog radio etc. She always stipulated she would not speculate on the
on the who? and why? But keep to the scientific facts as she knew them. In this interview maybe because of John Lash's presence she joined in more with the speculation which I found interesting.

I think they were a little hard on Richard Gage who I think is genuine. Richards theory is plausible for the public to get there head around, and at least they have put it into millions of peoples reality, that things are not what they seem and 16 muslim terrorists with box cutters and minimal flight training is very implosible....Now most people in the alternate community could easily switch, to more exotic weaponry. If we believe in ET's , Space fleet, there is no problem imho.

Richard Gage also tries not to speculate on the who? and the why? all he knew is as an architect, the collapse of Towers & building 7 did not feel right, and if you follow his logic
their theory is perfectly sound.He is aware of Judy and her work ,but is not ready to go there, because the press would have a field day ridiculing him as 'Star Trek' dreamer etc.
As I said for me exotic weapons theory makes much more sence , as Judy says alot of truthers are debunking her, but thats because everywhere is infiltrated by service to selfe people,
as she said people in the petrol chemical buisiness, do not want free energy exposed.

The PTB are monitoring all this and are one step ahead of all of us. As they said Judges are scared of this subject so are presumably the FBI. The immiediate perportrators are Chainey
and the gang and as John Lash says the people controlling them, may have increased the magnitude of the attack...We would call them TPTB, that mysterious group, that we use
for most things, who we know must exist , but we are not 100% sure who they are, Rothchild Bankers, anciant Annunaki Bloodlines, ET's , A powerful cabel ?????

Judy an John make a lot of sense and I think they are probably right, but how you get this out into the general public without ridicule without more evidence or a major disclosure.
is a big headache for me. Thats why I would not 'slag off' Richards Gages effort for at least this is keeping it in the public eye. Steven Jones and the scientists may have more to answer
for their hostility towards Judy Wood. I feel the majority of us know all this adds up to divide and conquer by TPTB, so we must keep the pressure up as best we can by discussing it with who ever

Slagging of those that dont agree with her is something she has done in the past too. Besides which her hypothesis is not just weak; it is not supported by the evidence at all.

[thegodsmakethecircles]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hAV3dntJTeM

[EYES WIDE OPEN]

If he really thinks linking crop circles and 9/11 will help progress the truth movement or bring justice for the families - he is living on another planet. Wizards?! Really?! This is supposed to help 9/11 truth how exactly?

[kevlar]

Be difficult for circle makers to communicate "from England" in September as there were no circles made in UK after end of August as the harvest was coming to an end.

love kevlar

FWIW in my opinion Judy Wood is right.

[<8>]

Thanks for a great thread The One...

Here is Judy Wood - 9/11 Ten Years Later


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FuJFe7DMqJk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FuJFe7DMqJk

September 11, 2011

Judy D. Wood is a former professor of mechanical engineering with research interests in experimental stress analysis, structural mechanics, optical methods, deformation analysis, and the materials characterization of biomaterials and composite materials. Dr. Wood started to question the events of 9/11 on that same day when what she saw and heard on television was contradictory and appeared to violate the laws of physics. Since that day she has used her knowledge of engineering mechanics to prove that the collapse of the World Trade Center twin towers could not have happened as the American public was told. She has written a lengthy book on the topic called, Where Did The Towers Go? Ten years have passed since the collapse of the World Trade Center. In this interview, we'll discuss what has changed since 9/11 and why it is taking so long to rebuild on"Ground Zero." Judy brings up evidence of directed energy weaponry used in the attack. She'll explain some of the technical specifics of how this is possible and why the information we've received is wrong. Later, we talk about strange anomalies related to the event and aftermath, including spontaneous combustion and toasted cars.

[EYES WIDE OPEN]

:flypig:

Every single little bit of "evidence" that she presents as "proof" of energy weapons can be accounted for by explosives without resorting to unprovable invisible lasers from space. Poor science in my opinion. Very poor. I keep meaning to write a rebut of her work but keep thinking its not worth it as I see the same mistakes posted here over and over again. But maybe that is exactly the reason I SHOULD write a rebut. I dont know....

[EYES WIDE OPEN]

anyone interested in a little back and forth? Anyway, Im off to bed now. Goodnight gang! ;)

[kouby]

This is pure disinfo, just look how she attacks everyone in he truth movement. It's as obvious as it ever will be, don't get suckered into believing this crap.

[jorr lundstrom]

EYES WIDE OPEN wrote:

Slagging of those that dont agree with her is something she has done in the past too.
Besides which her hypothesis is not just weak; it is not supported by the evidence at all.


Wot evidence? Ive lost tracks on wots concidered evidence those days.

kouby wrote:

This is pure disinfo, just look how she attacks everyone in he truth movement.
It's as obvious as it ever will be, don't get suckered into believing this crap.

Do we all agree on that the so called "Truth movement" has got a
monopoly of wots true. How come? Is it just by calling itself the truth
movement or.........................? I just wonder as I really dont know.

[ThePythonicCow]

Besides which her hypothesis is not just weak; it is not supported by the evidence at all.
There must be two Dr. Judy Wood's working on 9/11 research.

The one I know of wrote a book called "Where Did the Towers Go?", which I recently finished reading. It is the finest compendium of evidence I have ever seen regarding what happened to the buildings and surrounds of the World Trade Center on 9/11/2001. It's a good read too.

[EYES WIDE OPEN]

I too am reading the book. Glad I didnt waste my money on it however. If you think its the "finest compendium of evidence you have ever seen regarding what happened to the buildings and surrounds of the World Trade Center on 9/11/2001" then I really think you should raise your game.

These are 2 websites that use science and observation without conjecture. They are really good and helped clarify many things for me. :)

Start here: http://www.sharpprintinginc.com/911/
and here: http://the911forum.freeforums.org/index.php

Every single little bit of "evidence" that she presents as "proof" of energy weapons can be accounted for without resorting to unprovable invisible lasers from space. Poor science in my opinion. Very poor. I keep meaning to write a rebut of her work but keep thinking its not worth it as I see the same mistakes posted here over and over again. But maybe that is exactly the reason I SHOULD write a rebut. I dont know....
I dont think she is a disinfo artist, I think her heart is in the right place but her science is all wrong and she has only been a hinderance to the truth. But yes, attacking others that dont agree with her does her no credit. She should address their points or their questions instead of attacking them.

[jorr lundstrom]

The guys who made this video are most interested in who did it


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RrdNaxgIJcs&feature=related

[aviators]

I keep meaning to write a rebut of her work but keep thinking its not worth it as I see the same mistakes posted here over and over again. But maybe that is exactly the reason I SHOULD write a rebut. I dont know....
I dont think she is a disinfo artist, I think her heart is in the right place but her science is all wrong and she has only been a hinderance to the truth. But yes, attacking others that dont agree with her does her no credit. She should address their points or their questions instead of attacking them.


A few questions that Judy has brought to light for sure.

1 Where did 110 story's of steel go? X 2 Steel doesn't burn or liquidfy unless super heated.

2 Why did metal cars become toasted far away from ground zero.

3 Why was there very little seismic signal recorded from the buildings hitting the ground ?

4 Why didn't any of the buildings rupture the fragile bathtub and flood Manhattan?

5 Why was a powerful hurricane only a few hundred miles off the coast of N.Y.
that day and almost nothing was reported on it.

So what does the truth movement have to say about these points?

I don't know Judy. I haven't even read her book. She has raised some good questions though.

Best Regards.....

[EYES WIDE OPEN]

Answers to your questions:

1. The steel in the World Trade Center buildings did not turn to dust. The concrete in the buildings turned to dust. I came to this conclusion by simply looking at a few photos:
http://dart2.arc.nasa.gov/Deployments/NYC-WTC2001/images/LER049.jpg
http://cavegrad.typepad.com/.a/6a0120a5a3096a970c0120a5bacf28970c-800wi

2. They did not. They were moved after the event. The rusting of cars was probably from the sulfur from the thermite-composition that also is the cause of rusting and microspheres in WTC debris. The unburnt paper claim can be explained as most of the paper was also covered in dust, acting as a fire retardant. There was also much BURNED paper as well. Judy ignores this.

3. According to the King Dome-demolition article from her (incredibly disorganised site)
http://drjudywood.com/articles/DEW/StarWarsBeam2.html

The 25 000 ton roof collapsed instantly on a certain point (pressure point) ..but in the case of WTC demolitions, nothing that heavy dropped on a certain point at one instant. This is why the King Dome showed a bigger spike.
Most of the material from the WTC towers were scattered on a wide area and the pieces that fell on other buildings “took the blows” so this is why the seismic spike was smaller.
Also remember that most of the WTC concrete ( not the steel, but concrete and similar materials) was turned to dust.

4. “The bathtub is the 9-block area of the World Trade Center site that is excavated down to bedrock and hard soils and ringed by the slurry wall. The bathtub was created to enable the building of the Twin Towers' foundations”
http://911research.wtc7.net/wtc/arch/foundation.html

Also, take note the Derbis from the Towers did not destroy all the WTC buildings either, so it is not that “odd” that the debris did not destroy the “bathtub” ..and as stated above the bathtub was well supported by ridged materials.

5. Because weather happens on our planet. It was not reported because perhaps there was bigger news to report on 9/11.

Now some questions for Judy wood:

1) Has Dr Judy Wood ever tested the dust from ground zero? Indeed, has she done any experiments at all?

2) Why did two towers and Building 7 fall in a completely different manner if space beams were used for both?

3) Why does Judy Wood ignore all the testimony of BOMBS going off in the Buildings?

4) Was does Judy Wood spend more time discrediting AE911 than proving her own theory?

5) Why didn't these "beams" effect wtc 3, 4, 5, 6 and just 1,2, and 7?

6) Why weren't the cars 'Dustified' as she claims happened to the steel in the towers?

[aviators]

( Eyes Wide Open) Thanks for expanding and taking the time here.

From what I noticed in most of the pictures. There was a massive amount of dust. The dust expanded a great deal and had a tendency to stay airborne and travel with the wind currents. Lots of dust for sure. The heavy steel columns should essentially fall strait down. I haven't seen a skeleton plan showing all the steel support pieces but I am assuming there is a lot of beams and supports to carry the weight of those towers. 110 story's of steel beams and supports falling strait down should leave a mighty tall pile. The debris pile doesn't seem to fit the scale of those buildings. We really need to look at what a similar type of building
would do under similar controlled demolitions. If I remember correctly,,very little damage was done to the surrounding buildings.
Just my 2 cents.

The toasted cars I don't know. Automotive finishes are pretty tough. I would expect oxidation from unprotected bare metals.
Has anyone heard that some rescue workers were complaining about their steel toe shoes and other metal equipment having
issues? Just asking. Someone I think has reported on this. Could be diss info.

The King Dome is really a poor comparison to the twin towers. Again you really need to compare a similar structure.
I would expect a lot more mass out of a 110 story collapse. How tall was the the King Dome? That structure only supported one roof.

The bathtub may go down to bedrock but the walls may not be as strong especially with some of its upper structure gone.
A small hole or crack would have the Hudson coming in. Don't think there were any reports on water leaks. Not Sure?

I live in the north east and hurricane's are tracked days and weeks before they hit.They are watched carefully because they are unpredictable. If one made it a few hundred miles off the coast the news reports would be every hour.

Again Just my 2 cents. One thing for sure. We haven't been told the full story.

Question

If bombs were used in a controlled demolition that day. How many men and hours would it take to yield those results.
Just have to ask this because it must take hundreds of man hours to prep explosives and equipment. Wouldn't this be hard to hide from some of the other building maintenance crews. It shouldn't be hard to find some witnesses.
or at least someone to make a anonymous statement.

Best Regards.....

[EYES WIDE OPEN]

( Eyes Wide Open) Thanks for expanding and taking the time here.

The King Dome is really a poor comparison to the twin towers. Again you really need to compare a similar structure.
I would expect a lot more mass out of a 110 story collapse. How tall was the the King Dome? That structure only supported one roof.


Best Regards.....

Regarding the Kingdome, I only use that as an example as that is what Judy Wood used in her argument regarding the difference in seismic spikes.Your coment that its not a similar structure is indeed correct. Therefore this means Judy should also use a similar structure when talking about seismic spikes. Using the kingdome is almost irrelevant to proving her point as it is so different from the towers. Also, remember that this is in relation to seismic spikes and not dust / steel. That was a seperate question. I will address your othjer points later.
Cheers. :)

[EYES WIDE OPEN]

( Eyes Wide Open) T
If bombs were used in a controlled demolition that day. How many men and hours would it take to yield those results.
Just have to ask this because it must take hundreds of man hours to prep explosives and equipment. Wouldn't this be hard to hide from some of the other building maintenance crews. It shouldn't be hard to find some witnesses.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rbhZCqNZP2U

[EYES WIDE OPEN]

( Eyes Wide Open) Thanks for expanding and taking the time here.

From what I noticed in most of the pictures. There was a massive amount of dust. The dust expanded a great deal and had a tendency to stay airborne and travel with the wind currents. Lots of dust for sure. The heavy steel columns should essentially fall strait down. I haven't seen a skeleton plan showing all the steel support pieces but I am assuming there is a lot of beams and supports to carry the weight of those towers. 110 story's of steel beams and supports falling strait down should leave a mighty tall pile..

Look at any areial photo of 9/11. The steel and debris fell outside the footprint of the towers. That is why its not high. Also, there is plenty of footage of the core columns still standing at the end of the collapse until they fall at the final moments. They do not turn to dust. Its right there on various videos for all to see. :)

[Muzz]

This is a subject I am invested in at the moment. Reading John Lash's book 'Not in His Image' was a definite eye opener. Highly recomended it.

What are archons?

In their ExopoliticsTV interviews Laura Eisenhower and Robert Stanley discuss Ancient Gnostic texts from Egypt,

frIhzLHHryA

“called the Nag Hammadi, describing two types of demonic alien beings that invaded earth long ago which they call the Archons. The first type of Archon looks like a reptile. The other type looks like a human embryo... which has the same shape and appearance as the 'sky fish' photos.”

Robert Stanley, author of Covert Encounters over Washington DC, has release a public statement about archons stating,

“It is time to expose the covert controllers of mankind. I assure you this is not speculation, a hoax, or the figment of peoples’ imagination. These parasitic creatures are real and they need to be dealt with immediately so mankind can evolve to the next level of existence.

“Although these parasites are not human, they feed off the negative energy/emotions of humans. It is unclear when these cosmic, amoeba-like creatures first came to earth, but we know they were discovered by shamans in altered states of consciousness long ago and have recently been photographed.
The reason everyone is not seeing them on a daily basis is because the creature's energy signature is beyond our normal, narrow range of vision within the electromagnetic spectrum. What scientist call "visible light."

The scientific approach to archons
Mr. Stanley maintains that humanity must now take a scientific approach to identifying archons and exterminating them in the human dimensional ecology. Mr. Stanley has released a series of photographs of archons that can be seen in the Slide show in this article.

Archons are intrapsychic mind-parasites

In discussing archness, author John Lash writes,

"Although archons do exist physically, the real danger they pose to humanity is not invasion of the planet but invasion of the mind.

"The archons are intrapsychic mind-parasites who access human consciousness through telepathy and simulation. They infect our imagination and use the power of make-believe for deception and confusion.


Truth movement - Modern shamans?

As Carlos Castaneda demonstrated, the shamans and exorcists have had the role in traditional societies of coping with and counter-acting the negative effects of archons and “demonic possession” in their traditional societies.In her ExopoliticsTV interview, Laura Magdalene Eisenhower sees whistleblowers in The Truth Movement as among those that are carrying out the role of exorcising the archons from modern day society.

“Our planet Earth (Gaia),“ Ms. Eisenhower states, “is now engaged in an exorcism of the archons, and we must participate with her in exorcising our archons as well.”

Read the whole article (http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/vida_alien/alien_archons16.htm)

[Muzz]

There is also this article on the subject. :)

Who Wrote The Reptilian Agenda? - The Origin of The Anunnaki Script by John Lash (http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/sumer_anunnaki/reptiles/reptiles71.htm)

[Mark (Star Mariner)]

Yet another negative alien force... Sounds like an episode of Star Trek. Where does this all fit in with greys, reptilians and actual physical ETs? Is he trying to say that they are merely figments, manifestations of the archons??

[Dennis Jonathan]

John Lash is an eye opener - no doubt

[gittarpikk]

Hi all.. I have just had a very good video brought to my attention.. This one is GOOD... well documented and a lot of comments at the end has a lot to do with things we have heard of, but did not fully understand.. Its DEFINITELY worth your time..

The interviewer is Theo Chalmers who ask a lot of questions of Dr Judy Wood., I'm told it is the best interview yet....but I have not sen the previous ones

The material is from a physicist point of view.

enjoy

http://drjudywood.com/towers/

[ktlight]

FYI:
"Humans on Earth have been preoccupied with searching for other intelligent life that is organic in the universe. However, scientific research has presented evidence of life-like structures that arise from inorganic substances in space. To thrive on Earth intelligent inorganic life would not need, for example, air, and a variety of other vital organic features for life. The implications of this research are that apparently organically "dead" planets like Mars, Saturn, Jupiter, along with moons in this solar system could be inhabited by colonies of intelligent and inorganic life. Accordingly, some UFOs could in fact be spacecraft from colonies of neighbouring planets of Earth, and their moons. In other words, scientific research now supports the plausibility of various testimonies that have been made of such intelligent and apparently inorganic life in our solar system.

Indeed, the ancient Gnostics also warned of the existence of such inorganic entities that were observed to be jealous of humanity, and in the process, sought to use their technologies to manipulate, control, and enslave humanity.

Could extraterrestrial life be made of corkscrew-shaped particles of interstellar dust? The findings hint at the possibility that life beyond earth may not necessarily use carbon-based molecules as its building blocks. Life on Earth is organic. It is composed of organic molecules, which are simply the compounds of carbon, excluding carbonates and carbon dioxide. The idea that particles of inorganic dust may take on a life of their own is in itself, nothing short of alien, and goes beyond the silicon-based life forms favoured by some science fiction stories.

Now, an international team has discovered that under the right conditions, particles of inorganic dust can become organised into helical structures. These structures can then interact with each other in ways that are usually associated with organic compounds and life itself.

V. N. Tsytovich of the General Physics Institute, Russian Academy of Science, in Moscow, working with colleagues there, and at the Max-Planck Institute for Extraterrestrial Physics in Garching, Germany, and the University of Sydney, Australia, has studied the behaviour of complex mixtures of inorganic materials in a plasma.

Plasma is essentially the fourth state of matter beyond solid, liquid and gas, in which electrons are torn from atoms leaving behind a miasma of charged particles.

Until now, physicists assumed that there could be little organisation in such a cloud of particles. However, Mr. Tsytovich and his colleagues demonstrated, using a computer model of molecular dynamics, that particles in a plasma can undergo self-organization as electronic charges become separated and the plasma becomes polarized. This effect results in microscopic strands of solid particles that twist into corkscrew shapes, or helical structures. These helical strands are themselves electronically charged and are attracted to each other.

Quite "bizarrely", not only do these helical strands interact in a counterintuitive way in which like can attract like, but they also undergo changes that are normally associated with biological molecules, such as DNA and proteins, say the researchers [Reference: New Journal of Physics, August 2007]. They can, for instance, divide, or bifurcate, to form two copies of the original structure. These new structures can also interact to induce changes in their neighbours and they can even evolve into yet more structures as less stable ones break down, leaving behind only the fittest structures in the plasma.

So, could helical clusters formed from interstellar dust be somehow alive? "These complex, self-organized plasma structures exhibit all the necessary properties to qualify them as candidates for inorganic living matter," says Tsytovich, "they are autonomous, they reproduce and they evolve"."

source to continue
http://www.agoracosmopolitan.com/news/ufo_extraterrestrials/2011/07/21/213.html

[Project_Buggy_Beach]

Following the 'source to continue' this quote was interesting...

Interestingly, this Gnostic insight accords closely with the view of Jacques Vallee, who maintains that ET/cyborgs probably belong to the local planetary realm. Vallee also proposes that the Manipulative ET/UFO enigma is a “spiritual control system,” a phenomenon that “behaves like a conditioning process.” [Messengers of Deception].

[meat suit]

inorganic life may well be a good alternative to organic live. we are in the trouble that we are in coz as 'organics' we compete for resources
if one could incarnate into something like a stream of water or volume of air etc. life could well be interesting too...

in fact, isnt our lovely planet a being? (even if you removed all organic life from it???)

[EYES WIDE OPEN]

Reposted question from other thread:




Check this out, then prove to me it was explosives: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ms1uUZX_g2I

I really don't get how people belive Judy when she has done zero experiments to test her theory.
That is what science is.
Otherwise you just believe what she says on faith alone. How is what she says with zero practical proof or experiments to back her up better than what anyone else is saying in the 9/11 movement? (many of which DO have practical experiments to back them up)?
It just seems like people have read her ideas and decided they are true without bothering to look at the counter arguments.
Its like their mind is made up and then at that point they completely shut down to any further discussion of her ideas.
Also, why on earth people keep asking me to prove she is wrong is beyond me. Its up to her to prove she is right. And she has not.
Not a single experiment.
Her heart is in the right place but she has not shown any good evidence to support her space beams ideas.

[iceni tribe]

more Judy bashing EWO, youve been at her for two years now .

care to explain this.

http://i753.photobucket.com/albums/xx171/naf09_2010/9%2011%20and%207%207/46_wtc1spiretodustjg4.jpg

can you see 500,000 tons of debris

http://i753.photobucket.com/albums/xx171/naf09_2010/9%2011%20and%207%207/6135077960_96f8503b23.jpg

care to explain why the seismic chart gives a reading of 0.9 on the richter scale for the plane inpact and only 2.3 for a half million ton building smashing into the ground.

http://i753.photobucket.com/albums/xx171/naf09_2010/9%2011%20and%207%207/pallisadeschart-1.png


notice the time on the clock , 15 minutes after the first collapse , but wait what do we see , is that fine dust being kicked up by the mans feet how could that have settled so quick.

http://i753.photobucket.com/albums/xx171/naf09_2010/9%2011%20and%207%207/9-11-i.jpg


can you see the 30 floors at the top moving away from the rest of the building

http://i753.photobucket.com/albums/xx171/naf09_2010/9%2011%20and%207%207/capt-1.jpg

now where is that top piece again

http://i753.photobucket.com/albums/xx171/naf09_2010/9%2011%20and%207%207/Image28.jpg


how is it possible that 14 survived i stairwell B with half a million tons of rubble coming down on top of them.

http://i753.photobucket.com/albums/xx171/naf09_2010/9%2011%20and%207%207/9-13-01LookingWestthroughtheremains.jpg

http://i753.photobucket.com/albums/xx171/naf09_2010/9%2011%20and%207%207/ThermiteFreeZone.jpg

EWO it is my humble opinion that you can look for evidence for thermite bringing down the towers until the cows come home , Steven Jones ( 1989 cold fushion debunker ) and Richard Gage are controlled .

fancy researching your hero's then be my guest


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dhMPlJ9C__Q

[Cidersomerset]

Great post iceni Tribe.....The interview is very good and exposes the murky world of everything about 9/11
the two scientists who were murdered and everything else stinks to high heaven and as Andrew said it
looks like the truth movement has been manipulated from day 0ne, and why would it have not been ?
as any intelligence agencies would have spies in any organisation.....The crop circles makers
spring to mind in another of Richard Halls brilliant investigative documentry on British intelligence funding
John Lundberg of circlemakers.....I'm going to post this interview on the Judy Wood thread I put up as
it fits in well......Steve.

[EYES WIDE OPEN]

more Judy bashing EWO, youve been at her for two years now .

care to explain this.

http://i753.photobucket.com/albums/xx171/naf09_2010/9%2011%20and%207%207/46_wtc1spiretodustjg4.jpg

can you see 500,000 tons of debris

http://i753.photobucket.com/albums/xx171/naf09_2010/9%2011%20and%207%207/6135077960_96f8503b23.jpg

care to explain why the seismic chart gives a reading of 0.9 on the richter scale for the plane inpact and only 2.3 for a half million ton building smashing into the ground.

http://i753.photobucket.com/albums/xx171/naf09_2010/9%2011%20and%207%207/pallisadeschart-1.png


notice the time on the clock , 15 minutes after the first collapse , but wait what do we see , is that fine dust being kicked up by the mans feet how could that have settled so quick.

http://i753.photobucket.com/albums/xx171/naf09_2010/9%2011%20and%207%207/9-11-i.jpg


can you see the 30 floors at the top moving away from the rest of the building

http://i753.photobucket.com/albums/xx171/naf09_2010/9%2011%20and%207%207/capt-1.jpg

now where is that top piece again

http://i753.photobucket.com/albums/xx171/naf09_2010/9%2011%20and%207%207/Image28.jpg


how is it possible that 14 survived i stairwell B with half a million tons of rubble coming down on top of them.

http://i753.photobucket.com/albums/xx171/naf09_2010/9%2011%20and%207%207/9-13-01LookingWestthroughtheremains.jpg

http://i753.photobucket.com/albums/xx171/naf09_2010/9%2011%20and%207%207/ThermiteFreeZone.jpg

EWO it is my humble opinion that you can look for evidence for thermite bringing down the towers until the cows come home , Steven Jones ( 1989 cold fushion debunker ) and Richard Gage are controlled .

fancy researching your hero's then be my guest


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dhMPlJ9C__Q

As its my birthday today, Im not going to spend ages answering all that now. But I will in the next few days. What I will say now is Richard Hall was wrong about his "orb footage": watch this. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ymf30rN4Mxo

Oh and that series of photos of the core column is just dust falling off the columns. Its not the columns turning to dust. I will answer the rest tomorrow.

[Delight]

I have followed Dr. Judy Wood's work for a couple of years. She is an expert concerning the behavior of materials under varying conditions. As a material's scientist, she used the research tool of examining evidence in pictures and videos and comparing the behavior evidenced in the pictorial evidence with known "behavior" of materials.

She noticed that the behavior of the material did not conform to the given story. For instance, the towers disintegrated from the top. The towers rise up into dust. This is shown here:
http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2011/09/09/article-2035503-0DCA0F4000000578-48_964x712.jpg

On and on the evidence piles up that the story does not match the evidence.

What I learned most of all from Dr. Judy Wood is that though I doubted the "reasons" given for the event at the time, I used a story given and it shaped what I was seeing laid out in plain view. I saw what I was told to see. Spooky Spooky that I only saw what I was told to see.

John Hutchinson is a source she used to observe materials when energy technology is applied. One can compare the behavior of materials there to the towers.

http://drjudywood.com/articles/JJ/

One of the other things that amazed me from Dr. Judy Wood's contribution is although a major hurricane Erin, was headed straight for NYC, it was not considered news worthy. And on 9/11 it suddenly changed course.

http://drjudywood.com/articles/erin/erin1.html

http://911digitalarchive.org/REPOSITORY/IMAGES/PHOTOS/1867.pjpeg

http://www.nhc.noaa.gov/prelims/2001erin1.gif

Spooky, Spooky how even in the glaring light of information, people seem to prefer either being right over the opportunity to be more accurate, OR seem to promote and at least continue the lies for some other reason. Why are these voices not just booed out of town? Because they can pull in an expert witness too.

Spooky, Spooky how the arguments about "suspected" modalities divide the truth movement.

I am not a materials expert though. I will agree that I have a chance of being inaccurate myself. But at least I will never forget to doubt what I hear and look and see instead.

[EYES WIDE OPEN]

Judy may as well have said "I can fly. Not going to prove it with experiments. You just have to trust me." Please ask more of yourselves and be more discerning when you choose what to believe.


You say Hurricane Erin is suspicious and should be looked into. It already has been.

If you think a hurricane in the hurricane hotspot known as the North Atlantic is suspicious then I really dont know what to say, apart from that Erin was one of many hurricanes and tropical storms on and around 9/11.

Here they are -

http://img27.imageshack.us/img27/6082/othersy.jpg

Pick any year from this link and see how many hurricanes are prevolent every single year in the hotspot known as the North Atlantic...

http://weather.unisys.com/hurricane/atlantic/index.html



Also the fact that Erin had lost speed and was reported to have done so is a fact before 9/11. Here's an article...

http://img12.imageshack.us/img12/5268/erinnn.jpg

You use this still shot sequence to prove the spire turned to dust.

http://drjudywood.com/articles/DEW/dewpics/Image42.jpg

But notice how the top of the silo doesn't match up in terms of positioning.

http://img811.imageshack.us/img811/5307/snapshot26.png

Lining two of the stills of the silo up with each other gives us an interesting new take on this matter...

http://img715.imageshack.us/img715/6397/fellh.jpg



http://img715.imageshack.us/i/fellh.jpg/

The spire falls displacing the dust that settled on it from the collapse. No mystery there.

from another angle:



http://img152.imageshack.us/img152/2441/fall2.jpg

http://img413.imageshack.us/img413/8075/fall30.jpg


Spot the tiny man in this picture standing on the debris that Judy says does not exist.

http://img682.imageshack.us/img682/6140/ler050.jpg


I mean, I could go on but life is short....

The fact is that every single bit of Judy's theories can be explained without the need for invisible space rays.

[EYES WIDE OPEN]

more Judy bashing EWO, youve been at her for two years now .






Reposted question from other thread:

[QUOTE=Phoenix;441553]

Check this out, then prove to me it was explosives: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ms1uUZX_g2I

I really don't get how people belive Judy when she has done zero experiments to test her theory.
That is what science is.
Otherwise you just believe what she says on faith alone. How is what she says with zero practical proof or experiments to back her up better than what anyone else is saying in the 9/11 movement? (many of which DO have practical experiments to back them up)?
It just seems like people have read her ideas and decided they are true without bothering to look at the counter arguments.
Its like their mind is made up and then at that point they completely shut down to any further discussion of her ideas.
Also, why on earth people keep asking me to prove she is wrong is beyond me. Its up to her to prove she is right. And she has not.
Not a single experiment.
Her heart is in the right place but she has not shown any good evidence to support her space beams ideas.

How is any of what I wrote above "Judy bashing" as you call it iceni?
Where do I call her a name?
I don't.
I ask a few very simple questions and apparently that is "Judy bashing" ?
You are of course welcome to believe anything you like but to accuse me of attacking Judy when I have just asked a few simple questions is unfair.
Are her ideas so weak that any questioning of them must be answered with such a defensive attitude rather than plain honesty?

What do you think to the answers I gave regarding your questions of the spire collapse and hurricane and debris? Do you think they are good or bad answers?

[Arrowwind]

The 9/11 Truth Movement has no account for 1400 toasted cars... that is a huge story they dont make a peep about

I do not see why thermite could not have been used.
Could not the buidling been wired for demolition and at the same time had an energy weapon hit it?
After all, how many times have they been able to practice on a building like this with an energy weapon?
Perhaps they decided to cover all their bases.

9/11 Truthers and Judy Wood would do better to team up for the Truthers can account for much
the Dr Woods does not discuss at all.

[iceni tribe]

You use this still shot sequence to prove the spire turned to dust.

http://drjudywood.com/articles/DEW/dewpics/Image42.jpg

But notice how the top of the silo doesn't match up in terms of positioning.

http://img811.imageshack.us/img811/5307/snapshot26.png

Lining two of the stills of the silo up with each other gives us an interesting new take on this matter...

http://img715.imageshack.us/img715/6397/fellh.jpg



http://img715.imageshack.us/i/fellh.jpg/

The spire falls displacing the dust that settled on it from the collapse. No mystery there.


the spire falls displacing the dust that settled on it .........c'mon really !!!

i see the initial sharp image of the core column falling from right to left disappearing before my eyes.

try this one


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dzm2wfiXdW4

this image of yours looks mighty impressive.

http://i753.photobucket.com/albums/xx171/naf09_2010/9%2011%20and%207%207/ler050.jpg

i would be interested to know which building rubble we are actually looking at and where the photo was taken and was it taken by this man.

http://i753.photobucket.com/albums/xx171/naf09_2010/9%2011%20and%207%207/JM20with20camera20color.jpg


JOEL MEYEROWITZ

" the only photographer allowed unrestricted access to ground zero immediately following the attack":


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joel_Meyerowitz

http://i753.photobucket.com/albums/xx171/naf09_2010/9%2011%20and%207%207/NO_PHOTOGRAPHY_ALLOWED.jpg

or was it from Oliver Stone's "Rubblefield" in LA

listen at 1 min 30 secs


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T1hmntCeLoY

just exploring all possibilities , posting images of rubble without a definitive reference point is not helpful IMHO.

[EYES WIDE OPEN]

from the other thread.


I note that my explanations for Judys evidence have been mostly ignored. Fingers in ears.



Look at this video. It clearly shows the spire falling straight down.
You can track the top of it. IT DOES NOT TURN TO DUST. IT FALLS STRAIGHT DOWN. or will you not believe your own eyes. watch it a few times.
From the 1 min mark:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-dWBBEtA5bI&feature=related


This one is even clearer:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p0QQN8VlwUE

WATCH IT FALL. FROM ABOUT 2:45. THE SPIRE IS SOLD ALL THE WAY DOWN. YOU CAN EVEN SEE THE DUST FALL OFF IT. THIS DUST FROM A DIFFERENT ANGLE IS WHAT CONFUSED JUDY. THIS FOOTAGE PROVES SHE IS WRONG. COMPLEATLY WRONG.

DUST IS DISPLACED. Are people seriously sugessting that no dust landed on the spire and the rest of New York was covered in dust?! That is what you have to believe if you think that no dust landed on the spire and think the spire simply vanished due to space lazers or DEW.

Here is a challenge. Present what you consider the top 3 best bits of evidence form Judy wood. I will try and explain them using logic. What do you think guys?

[EYES WIDE OPEN]

As you seem to be suggesting that the rubble pile photo I posted is somehow staged, here is another: (note the HCV diggers at the bottom for scale)

http://www.erichufschmid.net/TFC/img/smoke-coming-from-WTC-rubble-airplane-view-1.JPG

I can find many more photos that prove the size and hight of the debris field if you want. :)

[Bo Atkinson]

Eyes Wide Open,
Who will settle the matter, of that pesky dust?
How long did it take dust to settle on the spires after what?... a thermite explosion?
Or did the spires fall before the explosion with the dust holographically expressed?
How much time elapsed between the frames of the sequence densities?

Dare to be naive. Bucky

:llama:

[iceni tribe]

As you seem to be suggesting that the rubble pile photo I posted is somehow staged, here is another: (note the HCV diggers at the bottom for scale)

http://www.erichufschmid.net/TFC/img/smoke-coming-from-WTC-rubble-airplane-view-1.JPG

I can find many more photos that prove the size and hight of the debris field if you want. :)

yes EWO i think i would like to see your most convincing photo's maybe you can find me 110 of these per tower.

http://i753.photobucket.com/albums/xx171/naf09_2010/9%2011%20and%207%207/WTC_Floor_pan_and_truss.jpg

their covered in concrete and they weigh 434 tons apiece , shouldn't be to hard to find . right !!!!!

http://i753.photobucket.com/albums/xx171/naf09_2010/9%2011%20and%207%207/wtc-concrete-1010-lg.jpg


from this

http://i753.photobucket.com/albums/xx171/naf09_2010/9%2011%20and%207%207/1593.jpg

to this

http://i753.photobucket.com/albums/xx171/naf09_2010/9%2011%20and%207%207/6135077960_96f8503b23.jpg

[ThePythonicCow]

yes EWO i think i would like to see your most convincing photo's maybe you can find me 110 of these per tower.

EYES WIDE OPEN will be unable to respond to your questions, iceni tribe. The forum moderation team has decided to un-subscribe EYES WIDE OPEN.

He has consistently, for a year and a half now, sought to push his view of the events of 9/11, engaging in a wide variety of Rhetorical Fallacies (http://uwc.utexas.edu/node/85), usually unresponsive to feedback, except to deny any wrong doing. Rather than being open minded and acting with apparent commitment to learning, he has shown himself to be close minded and energetically intrusive into others efforts to learn what really happened on the day of 9/11/2001.

From the Avalonn Forum Guidelines (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/faq.php?faq=avalonguidelines#faq_membershipguidelines):

While healthy debate is a traditional and integral part of all critical inquiry, members are expected to be open-minded, committed to learning, and responsive to well-intentioned feedback.

Anyone who does not appear to be in alignment with the purpose and energy of the forum may be asked to leave.

Understanding the events of 9/11 is an important key to understanding our current situation as humans on this earth.

The cover-up continues, and sharing insights into that day is one of the ways that many people have begun their awakening process.

I personally, and the moderators as a team, choose not to provide the use of this forum to someone who has for so long, and with such consistency, acted to hinder that learning by others.

This is not about his views on this or whether members of the mod team agree or disagree. It is about how one conducts oneself on this forum, whether one's actions on this forum are conducive to healthy debate and support of oneself and others making their way along the path to further awakening and cooperation.

[Arrowwind]

So please! What do the 9/11 truthers have to say about the 1200 toasted cars with missing engines and door handles with trunks popped open? some as far as 3/4 a mile away? Have they no account for this? so far I haven't seen one.

[Bo Atkinson]

AW... That vid with AE911 seems to answer it best: Richard Gage of AE911 would not accept questions outside his organization's subject area. He is a big architect and founder of AE911, methinks. He basically invoked the unwritten rule: it is honorable not to communicate. If one so desires. In this case cars are not architecture, case closed. Or get your own case, not his case number.