What is freedom?

[Asyloth]

Hello Avalonians,

I just came to the realization that there are two different visions of freedom in our world.

There are the heart centered people like me (who are a great minority), who consider that they wish to be free to do what has/needs to be done, and who are suffering a great lot since we are very few compared to the other side who sees us as a brake to their freedom.

That other side consider freedom as the right to do what shouldn't be done, and they see emotions as weakening, braking their aspirations to do anything they like even if it's not right.

So I'm wondering now, is freedom really the point in all of this?

[joeecho]

Freedom in a like beam balance.

http://icons.iconarchive.com/icons/iconleak/or/256/justice-balance-icon.png

The center post is freedom.

The cross beam is the qualities we attach to that freedom.

We then give weight to a particular quality (over another).

Then we soon forget that quality isn't freedom.

[Johnny]

If we define freedom, then it is not freedom. the paradox of freedom is that we can define freedom to whatever :)

[ghostrider]

freedom to me is , not needing to have , but just be ... quiet , peaceful , no envy , seeing things as they truly are , and keeping an open mind as I will never know everything unless I first admit to myself I know nothing ...

[Matt P]

I always felt freedom is the right to do anything one wants so long as it doesn't hurt the person or property of another or harm the environment that sustains us.

Of your question, Asyloth, it's not about freedom, it's about money and power I think.

By the way, I call the heart-centered people the empathetic humans. Some believe you/we are a new breed of human (homo empathicus (sp?)), which explains why some of us feel like such a minority. We are...but give us time!

Spelling and comments not coming as clear as I'd like because I'm trying to watch Brazil v Chile! Sorry!

Matt

[risveglio]

Hello Avalonians,

I just came to the realization that there are two different visions of freedom in our world.

There are the heart centered people like me (who are a great minority), who consider that they wish to be free to do what has/needs to be done, and who are suffering a great lot since we are very few compared to the other side who sees us as a brake to their freedom.

That other side consider freedom as the right to do what shouldn't be done, and they see emotions as weakening, braking their aspirations to do anything they like even if it's not right.

So I'm wondering now, is freedom really the point in all of this?

So there are two sides, you are on the good side and the other side is the bad side because to them Freedom is "the right to do what shouldn't be done"? Now who decides what should and should not be done? I guess you of course, because you are on the good side. You want to really understand Freedom? This is Freedom.

OobMGexM6Ks

[risveglio]

I always felt freedom is the right to do anything one wants so long as it doesn't hurt the person or property of another or harm the environment that sustains us.

Personally I agree with this 100% though there is a lot of confusion and misinformation about what really harms the environment. I know I have seen many examples of "environmentalists" doing more harm than good.



Of your question, Asyloth, it's not about freedom, it's about money and power I think.

By the way, I call the heart-centered people the empathetic humans. Some believe you/we are a new breed of human (homo empathicus (sp?)), which explains why some of us feel like such a minority. We are...but give us time!

Spelling and comments not coming as clear as I'd like because I'm trying to watch Brazil v Chile! Sorry!

Matt


Money is not really a problem, its just a tool. It's our fear and disgust for money that keeps most from not having any and makes them hate it even more. Power, in itself is not really a problem. Jesus promises the earth to those that have power but do not abuse it. The concept of homo empathicus sounds interesting but caring for people is not new. I think we all start off caring about one another. It's the fact that we can not agree on how to take care of each other and we are pitted against each other at ever step in this ****ed up society we have either created or been lead into. That's why it appears nobody cares. We are even doing it with the concept of Freedom now.

The Brazil / Chile game has been a good heart test for all the fans of these two teams.

[jounai]

For me freedom can be understood as "the ability to choose who you are". Will you use your freedom to create a you that are loving, hating, fearing, expansive, happy or suffering? As I understand it we always create our experience and what we experience ourselves as. Take my own past creation of the experience of depression that I enjoyed (well not much joy in such an experience though :P) for some years ago. There is a great deal of contrast between that past experience of depression and my current experience of what can be understood as enlightenment. I take much inspiration from the beings that exist in higher realms of experience, such as angelic consciousnesses, in my endeavor of creating a new me from day to day. :twitch:

The current goal (yeah it changes a lot) is to realize a spiritual perspective of what we call the "physical reality" as it seems like there is nothing physical about it but rather it being our perspective that make it seem like it is physical and solid. Spirit however is fluid and flexible and for me that sounds like great fun. :heh:

[Hughe]

@Asyloth

I thought freedom is fearless, painless, and feeling-good state.
One day I realized that such kind of freedom is an illusion.
I came to a conclusion that real freedom is to be in a position of having at least one choice one desire or want.
What choices can I make or have at any given moment?
Then quality and intent of choice distinguishes delusional and real freedom I would have experienced.
A drug addict enters into ecstasy with extreme pleasure induced by a drug.
A rock climber probably has more intensive ecstasy while climbing a dangerous big cliff.
Do they both exercise true freedom? It might be.
But as soon as I started to connect freedom with causality, it became clear that true freedom should improve and expand
the power of choice when it's exercised.

[Violet]

So long as recognition applies that freedom has a million faces.

You can feel free watching somebody paint and you can feel free in the monastery...People make choices that they support by saying it gives them a sense of freedom. We can't always relate to that.

This does not make it less true for the one experiencing his/her freedom.

Of course things do get difficult when freedoms collide.