embrace stupidity: this isn't a request, it's an order.

[Earthlink]

I haven't figure out how to post a picture here yet, so, you will have to go on google or any other search bar, and under images, search 'O2 level of atmosphere', and look for the graph that is a saw tooth.

that is the declining amount of oxygen in the atmosphere, and every winter, since the year 2000, when the term 'dead zones' was first named, mass die offs of insects birds and fish have been seen all over the world. the lamestream media, in Jan. 2011, because there are so many of these incidents, decided to speak about it, and what they said was that it is normal. perfectly normal, happens all the time, they said.

however, look up hypoxia. death by lack of oxygen, leaving blue stains in the mouth, and then watch this news clip.

this is normal, they said.

well, after years of this going on, and having it be completely ignored, there is very little left of the insect bird and fish population today. the fish die offs this winter lasted until the end of May, and they were in every region of the globe, and in every country, just as the insect and bird die offs have been. this is no longer something that awaits us in the future, it has already been here for some time, and every winter, look at the graph, every winter when the oxygen level goes to a new low, before it rises again, a whole bunch of stuff dies.

go find a Butterfly. there used to be lots, and of many types. Go find a pigeon. Go anywhere you have ever been as a child and you know the life there was teeming, and look now with your own eyes and see for yourself.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SsM5MxMO-JE

somehow, it has become perfectly acceptable to embrace stupidity. to just say "i've got all the money in the world, why should i care about knowledge"

that sentiment is evident all over this site, actually, and if there is an Avalon here, I'm not seeing it.

what i have asked you to do, in my last post, titled just.do.it is not a request. it's an order.

[Jake]

I haven't figure out how to post a picture here yet, so, you will have to go on google or any other search bar, and under images, search 'O2 level of atmosphere', and look for the graph that is a saw tooth.

that is the declining amount of oxygen in the atmosphere, and every winter, since the year 2000, when the term 'dead zones' was first named, mass die offs of insects birds and fish have been seen all over the world. the lamestream media, in Jan. 2011, because there are so many of these incidents, decided to speak about it, and what they said was that it is normal. perfectly normal, happens all the time, they said.

however, look up hypoxia. death by lack of oxygen, leaving blue stains in the mouth, and then watch this news clip.

this is normal, they said.

well, after years of this going on, and having it be completely ignored, there is very little left of the insect bird and fish population today. the fish die offs this winter lasted until the end of May, and they were in every region of the globe, and in every country, just as the insect and bird die offs have been. this is no longer something that awaits us in the future, it has already been here for some time, and every winter, look at the graph, every winter when the oxygen level goes to a new low, before it rises again, a whole bunch of stuff dies.

go find a Butterfly. there used to be lots, and of many types. Go find a pigeon. Go anywhere you have ever been as a child and you know the life there was teeming, and look now with your own eyes and see for yourself.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SsM5MxMO-JE

somehow, it has become perfectly acceptable to embrace stupidity. to just say "i've got all the money in the world, why should i care about knowledge"

that sentiment is evident all over this site, actually, and if there is an Avalon here, I'm not seeing it.

what i have asked you to do, in my last post, titled just.do.it is not a request. it's an order.

To post a pic,, click on the 'insert image' icon, just above the dialogue box.

Could you clarify this remark?


somehow, it has become perfectly acceptable to embrace stupidity. to just say "i've got all the money in the world, why should i care about knowledge"

that sentiment is evident all over this site, actually, and if there is an Avalon here, I'm not seeing it.

Did you just say that Avalon embraces stupidity?? And that there are rich people here who don't care about knowledge?

I'm not accusing you of anything.. I would, however like a bit of clarification, if you don't mind. Embracing stupidity would be your opinion,,, though a rude and openly offensive one. Rich people who don't care about knowledge??? Please show examples...

Jake.

[Earthlink]

Jake, unless you would also like to address the very real point I'm trying to make, the one where everything I know and love is either already dead, or is about to die, I'm not going to answer your tertiary questions that have nothing to do with my primary point. You either address my primary concern first, or I'm just going to ignore you.

The canary is not in a coal mine, the canary is on the surface, and, the canary has fallen.

[TargeT]

living in fear is a choice; and it's as valid for you to choose to do that as it is for you to choose not to do so.

however, do not be upset when others do not join you in your decision to live in fear.

the thing we loose sight of often (and seemingly desire NOT to see a lot of times) is that change is constant, nothing will ever be the same; there have been so many extinctions on this planet that it almost seems like life forms get "a chance" here; to succeed or fail... we have been lucky so far in that we have succeeded for quite a while now, but the continued success is anything but guaranteed.

What I am saying is this:

If the canary has fallen, then the time of the canary has passed, and in moving on the canary makes room for something else.

[panopticon]

I haven't figure out how to post a picture here yet, so, you will have to go on google or any other search bar, and under images, search 'O2 level of atmosphere', and look for the graph that is a saw tooth.

that is the declining amount of oxygen in the atmosphere, and every winter, since the year 2000, when the term 'dead zones' was first named, mass die offs of insects birds and fish have been seen all over the world. the lamestream media, in Jan. 2011, because there are so many of these incidents, decided to speak about it, and what they said was that it is normal. perfectly normal, happens all the time, they said.

however, look up hypoxia. death by lack of oxygen, leaving blue stains in the mouth, and then watch this news clip.

this is normal, they said.

well, after years of this going on, and having it be completely ignored, there is very little left of the insect bird and fish population today. the fish die offs this winter lasted until the end of May, and they were in every region of the globe, and in every country, just as the insect and bird die offs have been. this is no longer something that awaits us in the future, it has already been here for some time, and every winter, look at the graph, every winter when the oxygen level goes to a new low, before it rises again, a whole bunch of stuff dies.

go find a Butterfly. there used to be lots, and of many types. Go find a pigeon. Go anywhere you have ever been as a child and you know the life there was teeming, and look now with your own eyes and see for yourself.

SsM5MxMO-JE
somehow, it has become perfectly acceptable to embrace stupidity. to just say "i've got all the money in the world, why should i care about knowledge"

that sentiment is evident all over this site, actually, and if there is an Avalon here, I'm not seeing it.

what i have asked you to do, in my last post, titled just.do.it is not a request. it's an order.

This the image you were referring too?

http://images.dailytech.com/nimage/8971_capegrimm.jpg

Dead zones (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dead_zone_(ecology)) (low oxygen zones) are specific to the ocean and lakes and are mostly the result of nitrogen fertilizer run-off. I've mentioned them a number of times at Avalon in relation to fertilizer pollution.

I must admit a bit of confusion here. How does linking the video (which describes the 8000 pigeon deaths in Italy in 2011 as being due to fireworks) to nitrogen fertilizer pollution and oxygen depletion in effected oceanic regions with the decrease in oxygen levels in the atmosphere prove a point? The video does not assist your argument and I am still not exactly sure what that argument is...

I have not noticed a lower number of birds in the general vicinity, nor a decrease in the insect population (though the increased rain last Spring did mean a later grass hopper hatching which meant less running around for the poultry) and Kangaroo/Wallaby/Possum/Wombat numbers seem constant. With sadness I must say that we have not seen a wild Tasmanian Devil for almost a year in the back paddock but hope that the cancer hasn't killed the population in this region completely. The wild finches are doing much better than the population down in the South, as are the various parrots and pigeons (that choose walking when confronted by my good self rather than the more customary flighted approach). In addition the wild and domestic duck population is still doing strong as are the Peacocks and Peahens we have to keep tiger snakes and feral cats away from the yard/cabin (plus they scare off the native spotted wild cats [aka Quolls] saving young chicks wandering into gaping mouths).

So, no, I personally can not report a decrease in fauna in my bioregion. The predicted El Nino in Spring will make it another hard hot year down here and I've been busy clearing scrub before the fire season starts. No, I'm not looking forward to it.

-- Pan

¤=[Post Update]=¤


Jake, unless you would also like to address the very real point I'm trying to make, the one where everything I know and love is either already dead, or is about to die, I'm not going to answer your tertiary questions that have nothing to do with my primary point. You either address my primary concern first, or I'm just going to ignore you.

The canary is not in a coal mine, the canary is on the surface, and, the canary has fallen.

Hi Earthlink,

I'd be happy to address your point.

What is it...

-- Pan

[Pam]

I haven't figure out how to post a picture here yet, so, you will have to go on google or any other search bar, and under images, search 'O2 level of atmosphere', and look for the graph that is a saw tooth.

that is the declining amount of oxygen in the atmosphere, and every winter, since the year 2000, when the term 'dead zones' was first named, mass die offs of insects birds and fish have been seen all over the world. the lamestream media, in Jan. 2011, because there are so many of these incidents, decided to speak about it, and what they said was that it is normal. perfectly normal, happens all the time, they said.

however, look up hypoxia. death by lack of oxygen, leaving blue stains in the mouth, and then watch this news clip.

this is normal, they said.

well, after years of this going on, and having it be completely ignored, there is very little left of the insect bird and fish population today. the fish die offs this winter lasted until the end of May, and they were in every region of the globe, and in every country, just as the insect and bird die offs have been. this is no longer something that awaits us in the future, it has already been here for some time, and every winter, look at the graph, every winter when the oxygen level goes to a new low, before it rises again, a whole bunch of stuff dies.

go find a Butterfly. there used to be lots, and of many types. Go find a pigeon. Go anywhere you have ever been as a child and you know the life there was teeming, and look now with your own eyes and see for yourself.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SsM5MxMO-JE

somehow, it has become perfectly acceptable to embrace stupidity. to just say "i've got all the money in the world, why should i care about knowledge"

that sentiment is evident all over this site, actually, and if there is an Avalon here, I'm not seeing it.

what i have asked you to do, in my last post, titled just.do.it is not a request. it's an order.


Good Morning Earthlink,

It really is hard to watch the extinction and devastation of so much life on earth. Judging from your post to Jake you want to address solutions? Here is what I do, although you may not find it significant . I do not use insecticides, don't use herbicides in my yard. I create an environment that is friendly to all insect life to the best of my ability. I have picked an area in my community and I pick up litter and try to keep it pristine. I work with animal rescue groups. I donate money to organizations that I trust to use it appropriately.If something is presented to me that can be done to better things I do it.

At the end of the day my efforts probably don't amount to a hill of beans. Do I think I am going to save the planet and all its inhabitants? NO. But I can live with myself knowing that I am doing what I can. When I volunteer I try to project my feelings that it is a honor to do so, that I am privileged to have the opportunity to do something. I find enthusiasm and dedication as well as a sense of humour when volunteering with others is contagious.

So this is what one Avalonian does, knowledge only goes so far and is useless if not applied.

Sincerely,

Pam

[Earthlink]

I haven't figure out how to post a picture here yet, so, you will have to go on google or any other search bar, and under images, search 'O2 level of atmosphere', and look for the graph that is a saw tooth.

that is the declining amount of oxygen in the atmosphere, and every winter, since the year 2000, when the term 'dead zones' was first named, mass die offs of insects birds and fish have been seen all over the world. the lamestream media, in Jan. 2011, because there are so many of these incidents, decided to speak about it, and what they said was that it is normal. perfectly normal, happens all the time, they said.

however, look up hypoxia. death by lack of oxygen, leaving blue stains in the mouth, and then watch this news clip.

this is normal, they said.

well, after years of this going on, and having it be completely ignored, there is very little left of the insect bird and fish population today. the fish die offs this winter lasted until the end of May, and they were in every region of the globe, and in every country, just as the insect and bird die offs have been. this is no longer something that awaits us in the future, it has already been here for some time, and every winter, look at the graph, every winter when the oxygen level goes to a new low, before it rises again, a whole bunch of stuff dies.

go find a Butterfly. there used to be lots, and of many types. Go find a pigeon. Go anywhere you have ever been as a child and you know the life there was teeming, and look now with your own eyes and see for yourself.

SsM5MxMO-JE
somehow, it has become perfectly acceptable to embrace stupidity. to just say "i've got all the money in the world, why should i care about knowledge"

that sentiment is evident all over this site, actually, and if there is an Avalon here, I'm not seeing it.

what i have asked you to do, in my last post, titled just.do.it is not a request. it's an order.

This the image you were referring too?

http://images.dailytech.com/nimage/8971_capegrimm.jpg

Dead zones (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dead_zone_(ecology)) (low oxygen zones) are specific to the ocean and lakes and are mostly the result of nitrogen fertilizer run-off. I've mentioned them a number of times at Avalon in relation to fertilizer pollution.

I must admit a bit of confusion here. How does linking the video (which describes the 8000 pigeon deaths in Italy in 2011 as being due to fireworks) to nitrogen fertilizer pollution and oxygen depletion in effected oceanic regions with the decrease in oxygen levels in the atmosphere prove a point? The video does not assist your argument and I am still not exactly sure what that argument is...

I have not noticed a lower number of birds in the general vicinity, nor a decrease in the insect population (though the increased rain last Spring did mean a later grass hopper hatching which meant less running around for the poultry) and Kangaroo/Wallaby/Possum/Wombat numbers seem constant. With sadness I must say that we have not seen a wild Tasmanian Devil for almost a year in the back paddock but hope that the cancer hasn't killed the population in this region completely. The wild finches are doing much better than the population down in the South, as are the various parrots and pigeons (that choose walking when confronted by my good self rather than the more customary flighted approach). In addition the wild and domestic duck population is still doing strong as are the Peacocks and Peahens we have to keep tiger snakes and feral cats away from the yard/cabin (plus they scare off the native spotted wild cats [aka Quolls] saving young chicks wandering into gaping mouths).

So, no, I personally can not report a decrease in fauna in my bioregion. The predicted El Nino in Spring will make it another hard hot year down here and I've been busy clearing scrub before the fire season starts. No, I'm not looking forward to it.

-- Pan

¤=[Post Update]=¤


Jake, unless you would also like to address the very real point I'm trying to make, the one where everything I know and love is either already dead, or is about to die, I'm not going to answer your tertiary questions that have nothing to do with my primary point. You either address my primary concern first, or I'm just going to ignore you.

The canary is not in a coal mine, the canary is on the surface, and, the canary has fallen.

Hi Earthlink,

I'd be happy to address your point.

What is it...

-- Pan


Yes Pan, that is one of the graphs I was referring to, and, that is not the oxygen level of the oceans and lakes, it is the oxygen level of the atmosphere.

[Earthlink]

And no, Pan, it did not describe the bird deaths in Italy as being caused by fireworks, it only pointed out the blue stains in their mouths, which, if you look up hypoxia, death by a lack of sufficient oxygen, describes. The Americans interviewed in Bebee said it was fireworks, as if that is even a valid explanation.

[panopticon]

Yes Pan, that is one of the graphs I was referring to, and, that is not the oxygen level of the oceans and lakes, it is the oxygen level of the atmosphere.

Thank you for confirming that.

Yes, those are most definitely atmospheric readings and the Cape Grim Observation Station (CSIRO data from the station here (http://www.csiro.au/greenhouse-gases/)) is about 200 kilometres from my abode. That is why I used the stations data and referred to a distinct lack of fauna die-off in relation to those readings over at least the last decade. More noticeable effect on fauna is the El Nino/La Nina (http://www.bom.gov.au/watl/about-weather-and-climate/australian-climate-influences.shtml?bookmark=elnino) weather cycle.

Again, I am confused as to what your post is about. Is your post to do with decreasing oxygen in the atmosphere as a result of carbon emissions? The increased acidification of the ocean leading to decreased carbon sequestration via plankton? Wildlife die-off due to oxygen starvation (which I have seen no evidence for other than in the afore mentioned aquatic environments referred to as "dead zones")? Nitrogen fertiliser run-off leading to nutrient rich environments create oxygen deletion zones? A combination of these or something completely different?

Please explain your position so I can respond as at this moment I am not clear as to what your actually saying...

-- Pan

[Earthlink]

What I am saying is this:

If the canary has fallen, then the time of the canary has passed, and in moving on the canary makes room for something else.

Perhaps, however, if the reason the canary has fallen is a lack of oxygen, due to there being too many internal combustion engines, which also need oxygen to run, and turn that oxygen into oxides that you nor any other species in the Animal Kingdom can use, then nothing will move in to take its' place.

[Earthlink]

Yes Pan, that is one of the graphs I was referring to, and, that is not the oxygen level of the oceans and lakes, it is the oxygen level of the atmosphere.

Thank you for confirming that.

Yes, those are most definitely atmospheric readings and the Cape Grim Observation Station (CSIRO data from the station here (http://www.csiro.au/greenhouse-gases/)) is about 200 kilometres from my abode. That is why I used the stations data and referred to a distinct lack of fauna die-off in relation to those readings over at least the last decade. More noticeable effect on fauna is the El Nino/La Nina (http://www.bom.gov.au/watl/about-weather-and-climate/australian-climate-influences.shtml?bookmark=elnino) weather cycle.

Again, I am confused as to what your post is about. Is your post to do with decreasing oxygen in the atmosphere as a result of carbon emissions? The increased acidification of the ocean leading to decreased carbon sequestration via plankton? Wildlife die-off due to oxygen starvation (which I have seen no evidence for other than in the afore mentioned aquatic environments referred to as "dead zones")? Nitrogen fertiliser run-off leading to nutrient rich environments create oxygen deletion zones? A combination of these or something completely different?

Please explain your position so I can respond as at this moment I am not clear as to what your actually saying...

-- Pan

Today? Today you did not go out and survey the damage. Further, there are 2 distinct air masses here on Earth, the northern and the southern. As the majority of the internal combustion engines exist in the norther hemisphere, it is always slightly lower than the southern hemisphere, in terms of the measured oxygen content, but in a year it will match the reading in the north while the north moves down some more.

And, every year, in what is the winter to the north, the amount of O2 in the atmosphere hits a new low, as displayed in the graph, and when that happens, every year, many things die in large numbers globally, as has been ongoing since the year 2000.

Again, I travel in a pack of gods here today on Earth, relatively speaking. There isn't anything anyone can do for me.

[panopticon]

As I included the Cape Grim graph I best explain what the image represents:

http://images.dailytech.com/nimage/8971_capegrimm.jpg

So, what is this graph showing?

It illustrates the drop in oxygen levels measured at the Cape Grim observatory (Tasmania) showing seasonal variations over a 17 year period.

To explain if this is actually something to be concerned about:


Oxygen concentrations are currently declining at roughly 19 per meg per year, or about 4 ppm per year. One "per meg" indicates one molecule out of 1,000,000 oxygen molecules, or roughly one molecule in 4.8 million molecules of air.
Source: Keeling 2013 (http://cdiac.ornl.gov/trends/oxygen/modern_records.html)

A further explanation from the same source:


Oxygen Depletion

We are occasionally reminded that fossil fuel burning is depleting atmospheric oxygen at a rate of almost 1000 tons per second. There are about 32 million seconds in a year, so that somewhere around 30 billion tons of O2 are being converted to CO2 annually. There are about 1,200,000 billion metric tons of O2 in the atmosphere, so we can keep burning fossil fuels at the present rate for 40,000 years before we run out of oxygen. By then, all of the world's fossil fuel supply will have long since been exhausted. If we take the worlds supply of fossil fuel to be 10,000 billion metric tons of carbon, as per http://genomicscience.energy.gov/carboncycle/index.shtml and we oxidize all of it we would get about 37,000 billion metric tons of CO2, and about 27,000 billion metric tons of O2 would have been consumed. Some additional O2 would have also been consumed by oxidation of hydrogen in the (hydrocarbon) fuel, so that roughly 38,000 billion metric tons of oxygen would have been consumed. This is about 3.3 percent of the atmosphere's oxygen. Such a loss would be equivalent to increasing your elevation from sea level to about 330 meters, or about 1100 feet.
Source: Keeling 2013 (http://cdiac.ornl.gov/trends/oxygen/modern_records.html)

BTW Keeling is the bloke who did the Keeling curve (the other saw tooth graph) for CO2 increase:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/15/Mauna_Loa_Carbon_Dioxide_Apr2013.svg/300px-Mauna_Loa_Carbon_Dioxide_Apr2013.svg.png

I have seen no evidence of fauna dying from hypoxia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypoxia_(environmental)) unless that fauna (or flora) is within an aquatic dead zone.

-- Pan

[sirdipswitch]

The sky is falling, the Sky is falling... geeesh.

Think I'd be lookin fer a nuther "pak" of gods.

But then that's just me. You seem to be quite happy with yer fear group. chuckle chuckle.:wizard:

[panopticon]

Today? Today you did not go out and survey the damage. Further, there are 2 distinct air masses here on Earth, the northern and the southern. As the majority of the internal combustion engines exist in the norther hemisphere, it is always slightly lower than the southern hemisphere, in terms of the measured oxygen content, but in a year it will match the reading in the north while the north moves down some more.

And, every year, in what is the winter to the north, the amount of O2 in the atmosphere hits a new low, as displayed in the graph, and when that happens, every year, many things die in large numbers globally, as has been ongoing since the year 2000.

Again, I travel in a pack of gods here today on Earth, relatively speaking. There isn't anything anyone can do for me.

I did spend most of today in the wilds of Tasmania (as I spend most days) and did not notice anything unusual.

It is 2 am so I'll buggar off to bed now (busy day clearing scrub tomorrow) and wish you all the best.

I hope my posts in this thread have been helpful.

-- Pan

[Earthlink]

As I included the Cape Grim graph I best explain what the image represents:

http://images.dailytech.com/nimage/8971_capegrimm.jpg

So, what is this graph showing?

It illustrates the drop in oxygen levels measured at the Cape Grim observatory (Tasmania) showing seasonal variations over a 17 year period.

To explain if this is actually something to be concerned about:


Oxygen concentrations are currently declining at roughly 19 per meg per year, or about 4 ppm per year. One "per meg" indicates one molecule out of 1,000,000 oxygen molecules, or roughly one molecule in 4.8 million molecules of air.
Source: Keeling 2013 (http://cdiac.ornl.gov/trends/oxygen/modern_records.html)

A further explanation from the same source:


Oxygen Depletion

We are occasionally reminded that fossil fuel burning is depleting atmospheric oxygen at a rate of almost 1000 tons per second. There are about 32 million seconds in a year, so that somewhere around 30 billion tons of O2 are being converted to CO2 annually. There are about 1,200,000 billion metric tons of O2 in the atmosphere, so we can keep burning fossil fuels at the present rate for 40,000 years before we run out of oxygen. By then, all of the world's fossil fuel supply will have long since been exhausted. If we take the worlds supply of fossil fuel to be 10,000 billion metric tons of carbon, as per http://genomicscience.energy.gov/carboncycle/index.shtml and we oxidize all of it we would get about 37,000 billion metric tons of CO2, and about 27,000 billion metric tons of O2 would have been consumed. Some additional O2 would have also been consumed by oxidation of hydrogen in the (hydrocarbon) fuel, so that roughly 38,000 billion metric tons of oxygen would have been consumed. This is about 3.3 percent of the atmosphere's oxygen. Such a loss would be equivalent to increasing your elevation from sea level to about 330 meters, or about 1100 feet.
Source: Keeling 2013 (http://cdiac.ornl.gov/trends/oxygen/modern_records.html)

BTW Keeling is the bloke who did the Keeling curve (the other saw tooth graph) for CO2 increase:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/15/Mauna_Loa_Carbon_Dioxide_Apr2013.svg/300px-Mauna_Loa_Carbon_Dioxide_Apr2013.svg.png

I have seen no evidence of fauna dying from hypoxia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypoxia_(environmental)) unless that fauna (or flora) is within an aquatic dead zone.

-- Pan

Two men say they're Jesus, one of them's got to be wrong.

In my mind, all you are pointing out here, is that the education system screwed everyone when they stopped failing people who did not understand the material, and that did happen. I watched the fossil industrial complex permeate the universities and colleges with their atmospheric science labs that tell you nothing of what is in the sky and inundate you with cosmic bullpucky about chemsitry, and geographical institutes who only now teach geologists where to find oil in the ground.

Tell me, does it say anywhere on that site what the oxygen level of the atmosphere is, expressed as a percentage? You know, like 19.64% oxygen?

It should, because OSHA (occupational safety and health admin) need to know what it is in a percentage, since, the safety laws states that workers are not to enter an area where the oxygen level is 19.50% or lower.

[Earthlink]

The sky is falling, the Sky is falling... geeesh.

Think I'd be lookin fer a nuther "pak" of gods.

But then that's just me. You seem to be quite happy with yer fear group. chuckle chuckle.:wizard:

Finally, someone gets it. No, gasp, the sky is not falling, however ...

sir ... whatever your name is ... (that's a funny name, i like it :)

and, uh, i had 7 trade licenses at 25, 9 today, and am an engineer: energy specialist, with a **** ton of other certifications. you flick a switch, and the light doesn't come on. you change the lightbulb, and the light still doesn't come on, what do you do? you open a faucet, and no water comes out. you open a faucet that is supposed to be hot water and only cold water comes out. your thermostat doesn't work. your car doesn't work. on and on and on this list goes for me.

relatively speaking, a god sir, a god. there are 50 master refrigeration mechanics in this city of 1 million north of me, of which i am one of, and we keep all of the beer cold and the food either cold or frozen for all of them, throughout the city. me and the 50 or so other master electricians keep the lights on too, and i personally will never need electricity from the grid. raised in the country, i've also been growing food all my life as well.

this is where we're at.

[Earthlink]

I have not yet completely exercised my frail ego, and as proof, I'm going to need at least 1 person to thank me for my original post, otherwise HE wants me to just pack up all my stuff and storm home :( ... hahahahahahaha

[Sierra]

somehow, it has become perfectly acceptable to embrace stupidity. to just say "i've got all the money in the world, why should i care about knowledge"

that sentiment is evident all over this site, actually, and if there is an Avalon here, I'm not seeing it.

what i have asked you to do, in my last post, titled just.do.it is not a request. it's an order.

Gee, the lack of oxygen must be making us Avaloners stupid... But how stupid is it to lead in with a statement like that? And you want thanks? I think there is a connection here that you ignore.

Someone may have it right, but if they use rudeness to make their point, others tend to go elsewhere to where the same point is made without rudeness and insults. And where the guidelines are not being smushed...

And perhaps issues like "You either address my primary concern first, or I'm just going to ignore you.", will not arise. Generating Loosh by one's own attitude, tends to derail threads in itself.

Just sayin...

Smart Sierra, part of the ever so shining and brilliant light of Avalon :)
(I put this out to cancel the energy and intent of your words re the stupidity of Avaloners)

[Earthlink]

somehow, it has become perfectly acceptable to embrace stupidity. to just say "i've got all the money in the world, why should i care about knowledge"

that sentiment is evident all over this site, actually, and if there is an Avalon here, I'm not seeing it.

what i have asked you to do, in my last post, titled just.do.it is not a request. it's an order.

Gee, the lack of oxygen must be making us Avaloners stupid... But how stupid is it to lead in with a statement like that? And you want thanks? I think there is a connection here that you ignore.

Someone may have it right, but if they use rudeness to make their point, others tend to go elsewhere to where the same point is made without rudeness and insults. And where the guidelines are not being smushed...

And perhaps issues like "You either address my primary concern first, or I'm just going to ignore you.", will not arise. Generating Loosh by one's own attitude, tends to derail threads in itself.

Just sayin...

Smart Sierra, part of the ever so shining and brilliant light of Avalon :)
(I put this out to cancel the energy and intent of your words re the stupidity of Avaloners)

Sierra, bless your light, it is just that for too many years, things have not but deteriorated.

Why? I think it is simple.

Even before factory farming showed up, it only took around 1% of the population to grow all of the food for 100% of the population, and this statistical reality crosses into all sphere's, not just farming.

At best, and would it were practiced, there are 4 columns of Humanity. Teachers, Farmers, Tech's and Artists. Artist is the largest of our 4 basic columns, and it permeates all the other 3, which themselves to some extent permeate all the others as well.

What has been ongoing, is, for some reason, we have been brought to believe that the opinion of a Farmer is extremely relevant to the Teacher, or even worse, that the opinion of an Artist has become monumental to the Tech.

Does that make sense?

There was a time in my life where ones who could not even use an amp probe didn't elect to speak about electricity, yet today, it has become the opposite.

Verily.

[Earthlink]

This is a condition that exists everywhere in the English world today, it isn't specific to Avalon, yet as it does exist everywhere outside here, it has also permeated this space as well.

[Sierra]

This is a condition that exists everywhere in the English world today, it isn't specific to Avalon, yet as it does exist everywhere outside here, it has also permeated this space as well.

That is probably true, but you are adding to the problem, with your insults. Studies have shown, when people are told they are stupid, there is an impact on their ability to arise above the negativity. They actually become more "stupid" as a result. It certainly stops dialog.

Be a part of the solution, not add to or increase the stupidity. :)

(Guidelines are there for a reason, not just to be arbitrary...)


What has been ongoing, is, for some reason, we have been brought to believe that the opinion of a Farmer is extremely relevant to the Teacher, or even worse, that the opinion of an Artist has become monumental to the Tech.

I am not clear what you are saying here: Cross training is good or bad? Understanding how other disciplines work is good or bad?
Sierra

[joeecho]

Two men say they're Jesus, one of them's got to be wrong.


Actually, they can both be wrong.

[Earthlink]

Perhaps with the case of the Artist, beauty is in the eye of the beholder. I know what I call good art, and what I recognize as talent, and it differs depending on the person.

Art can be subjective, and while I have taken art, to some degree, in drafting class, I also recognize that I did get better at it through time spent practicing it, and would I to spend more time at it, I would continue to get better at it, just as my guitar playing improves every time I play it.

The understanding of some disciplines can only come through hands on applications of them.

This is a societal wide problem that we keep behaving as though we're walking on glass over, and so have failed to address in any way at all.

Long before there was my space or any other relatively new social media, we had newsgroups. peer to peer.

As I've already expressed earlier, there are only 50 master refrigeration mechanics in this city of 1 million.

Are any of them, other than me, in here?

How about one of the 50 master electricians? Point out 1.

Groups like this, frankly, freak them out, and so, the discussions go on, in their absence, and usually what freaks them out, is the unsubstantiated opinions of others in this very group. Others, whom I can only refer to as Artists, get all up in their faces with their more often than not mainscream media constructed falsehoods.

It is in my opinion that the ones needed the most to realize this blending of science and spirituality were chased off long ago.

[Sierra]

I consider C------ a master of electricity. :D

Well, you have pointed out a problem that you seem to see clearly, do you wish to offer an intelligent solution? Since it seems self-responsibility for one's footprint does not resonate with you as some have suggested? (Consider though, if we all mastered our carbon footprints the world just might transform...)

Sierra

[Lifebringer]

Each soul that's here has a place in the outcome of how we either want or desire or envision our children's future and the end of the corrupt. We chose to be here and remembering why your are here is part of it, but mostly being aware of what's going on and making a solution either via net or exchange w/green evolutionary energy companies ready to make the changes necessary. Living cleaner shouldn't be a taboo to speak of or act upon. The polluters act as if we didn't know how to research how much damage they "claim they are doing in OUR name." After 40 yrs. they've given US our answer on the squandering of our tax substidies, and WE should sue them for it. Misappropriation of tax funds for research and development. First we must spring the traps at the same time. We all have parto f the answer, and united for our future and children's by staying on the good side of things, we should be able to fire them/those who've been in there decades allowing it all to be sold to corporate corruption and laundering. Drug money wasn't enough for them, they had to screw w/THE FED/US CITIZEN'S tax money under false pretences. Financial fandoodiling w/our future is over. WE simply won't support their companies of destruction to life or planet. Simple as that, puts a big chunk in the "No audience, NO clownery." Everyone around the world doing to them, as they did to US and others. Shutting their greedy corrupt, murderous tenticals in the doors of justice. Clink! Clink!!
Follow up is required, and therefore the constant alarms to those dozing off.

[giovonni]

Two men say they're Jesus, one of them's got to be wrong.


Actually, they can both be wrong.

or Right ... we all have the capacity within us to walk the Path ... :)

[Earthlink]

You're going to have to listen. Any and all of the internal combustion engines near you can easily be found: they all make noise, and they all need to be changed to an electric equivalent. Every one of them is a source of many poisons, and are responsible for the termination of everything inside the Animal Kingdom on your Home World. Tesla just released their patents to the public, not that there is anything complicated about an electric car, we have all played with toys race car sets and have seen with our own eyes how simple they are, no, it isn't the technology, it is that his patents have been approved, and anyone can now make street legal electric cars with those patents.

And as there is a waiting list, there has consistently been waiting lists from all manufacturers of electric cars, it remains a profitable venture to all who would go there.

And as to how do we get any of the other masters to come back? I don't know.

Refrain from chasing them off in the first place would be a good place to start, however, there also remains the point that what would possibly benefit them in a return to this space?

I don't know if you truly grasp the gravity of that yet or not.

[Jake]

Jake, unless you would also like to address the very real point I'm trying to make, the one where everything I know and love is either already dead, or is about to die, I'm not going to answer your tertiary questions that have nothing to do with my primary point. You either address my primary concern first, or I'm just going to ignore you.

The canary is not in a coal mine, the canary is on the surface, and, the canary has fallen.

I will attempt to address your point... What is it?? About oxygen levels. Ah! Yes, very alarming... Good that you are tracking it..

Love is dyeing?? I'm sorry you feel that way. My opinion is quite different...

OKay!!! I addressed your point... I think,, not really sure what your point is...

It is my job to keep these discussions clear of insults,, no matter how cleverly disguised. You have clearly taken a shot at Avalon, and its members.

So i addressed your primary point, about not being able to post a pic.
I addressed your point about Oxygen levels....
I addressed your point about love...

I suppose you are still going to ignore me.. That is fine... Keep up the insults to members of this forum and the forum in general and you will be shown the door. You were accepted to Avalon, under the assumption that you would read and follow the forum guidelines. I invite you to re-read them before you continue down the road of insults and attacks.

Unless, you would simply clarify what you meant... :)

Jake.

[Earthlink]

Comments like the one from sirdipswitch above, and others over the years, like tinfoil hats, and conspiracy theories, and on and on and on, all from those who were not themselves masters, and all of which have compounded and have been more than enough to have all of them abandon this group or any other where Artists have been allowed to speak freely as Tech's.

That is a promise.

Did I tell you yet that those comments have gone on and on and on and on?

Yeah, they have, and it has been to only your own detriment.

That is also a promise.

[Earthlink]

Yes Jake, hypoxia is killing everything in the Animal Kingdom as I type this, and has been since at least the year 2000, and all attempts to wean us all from fossil fuels has only seen massive increases in our consumption of fossil fuels, so much so that if you and I and everyone else do not make a concerted effort to stop using them, it's over. For many Butterfly and other insect, bird and fish species, it is already over, and until that day when people figure out that 2 plus 2 does not equal 5, there remains little hope.

Listen, find the source of the poison, and be rid of it.

[giovonni]

Comments like the one from sirdipswitch above, and others over the years, like tinfoil hats, and conspiracy theories, and on and on and on, all from those who were not themselves masters, and all of which have compounded and have been more than enough to have all of them abandon this group or any other where Artists have been allowed to speak freely as Tech's.

That is a promise.

Did I tell you yet that those comments have gone on and on and on and on?

Yeah, they have, and it has been to only your own detriment.

That is also a promise.

HMM ...

it appears you've moved on from Avalon ... for better or worse ... :yo:

[Dorjezigzag]

where Artists have been allowed to speak freely as Tech's.

Most of the industrial problems of this world have been created by techs not artists

But why the separation, the best technicians and scientists I know are artists and consider themselves as such.

Art is the expression or application of human creative skill and imagination.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/22/Da_Vinci_Vitruve_Luc_Viatour.jpg/640px-Da_Vinci_Vitruve_Luc_Viatour.jpg

[Kristin]

Hey there Earthlink,

Glad you are testing out your wings here. A few pointers:
1) Stay on the topic of your own thread.
2) Learn to communicate with respect
3) Drop the ego

IF you are an Engineer, speak in the lingo of Engineers. There are plenty on this forum who are quite capable of engaging with you. Think like an engineer and look at your subject as a study. Be open to the discussion you are having by having a discussion. Show an engineers patience and above all an engineer's ability to uniquely describe facts with clarity and with back up notation.

I would back up. Try again. This time with the idea of spreading knowledge and an earnest interest in other opinions rather then listening to oneself only. Such action will promote longevity here as a member. This is a FORUM, after all.

From the Heart,
Kristin

[Jake]

Yes Jake, hypoxia is killing everything in the Animal Kingdom as I type this, and has been since at least the year 2000, and all attempts to wean us all from fossil fuels has only seen massive increases in our consumption of fossil fuels, so much so that if you and I and everyone else do not make a concerted effort to stop using them, it's over. For many Butterfly and other insect, bird and fish species, it is already over, and until that day when people figure out that 2 plus 2 does not equal 5, there remains little hope.



Alarming!!! Yes, it is all being very well orchestrated and the hour is later than folks realize!!! We are tracking all sorts of unruly elements... I have made MORE than a concerted effort to challenge the status quo. I currently own and operate a business that takes petro-chemical equipment out of operation.

Feel free to speak for yourself about not doing anything about it. Others do,, I do,,,, Avalon is about looking for solutions, not just sitting back and whining...

Between Butterflies and fossil fuels and oxygen and love and fish and common core math,,,, It remains to be seen if you are going to bring all of this around to an understandable level...

You have the floor, brother. No need to insult us,, we are ready and waiting....


Listen, find the source of the poison, and be rid of it.

I have identified the source of the poison... I'd like transmute it into a magical elixer,,,, but I may have to throw it out...

Jake.

[Earthlink]

Ironically, you all either have experienced dizzy-ness already, have been diagnosed with Vertigo, or, you know someone who has either or both as well. This is the beginning stages of hypoxia moving into the Human population, and in higher elevation locations such as Tibet and Peru, people are already dead because of it. Loss of consciousness in higher regions needs to be treated with oxygen, or, they die. The Human casualties, as well as all other animal species, has already begun, and, a colleague of mine in Brazil, up in the high elevations where they grow coffee, has been living in a town completely void of all insects and birds since 2010.

I have to ask you the same question:

Do you even want a mixing of science and spirituality in the first place, for, my observations are only being re-enforced that every time science does show up, it is immediately ridiculed and shown the door.

[Kristin]

This is the beginning stages of hypoxia moving into the Human population, and in higher elevation locations such as Tibet and Peru, people are already dead because of it.

Please provide studies, links, or documents to support your statement. Otherwise you are just spouting off.


Do you even want a mixing of science and spirituality in the first place, for, my observations are only being re-enforced that every time science does show up, it is immediately ridiculed and shown the door.

The above antagonistic quote is not acceptable behavior here in conversational discourse, PMs, or otherwise. This is exactly what we are trying to steer you away from. Do you wish to proceed? Do you see your self?

From the Heart,
Kristin

[Earthlink]

For what purpose? Why would I lie about this? What can I possibly gain by convincing you that something which is not so, is?

On the other hand, the fossil fuel think tanks have a monied interest, and have produced tens of thousands of scientific documents, journals and reports over the last 15 years, and they are like a tread mill now, pumping out volumes of completely meaningless and unsubstantiated bogus science on a week;y or even daily rate.

They, have a reason.

And I'm sorry to say, the only reason I could possibly have, is Love.

I know, it's not enough ...

[shadowstalker]

I think that someone here (Earthlink) as forgotten that this forum is chuck full of individualized spiritual beings with individual spiritual timing and individual spiritual missions..

[Jake]

Ironically, you all either have experienced dizzy-ness already, have been diagnosed with Vertigo, or, you know someone who has either or both as well. This is the beginning stages of hypoxia moving into the Human population, and in higher elevation locations such as Tibet and Peru, people are already dead because of it. Loss of consciousness in higher regions needs to be treated with oxygen, or, they die. The Human casualties, as well as all other animal species, has already begun, and, a colleague of mine in Brazil, up in the high elevations where they grow coffee, has been living in a town completely void of all insects and birds since 2010.

I have to ask you the same question:

Do you even want a mixing of science and spirituality in the first place, for, my observations are only being re-enforced that every time science does show up, it is immediately ridiculed and shown the door.

You have no idea what you are talking about. And you have shown it. We have many amazing scientific minds. Bill, himself, is a physicist. You have done yourself a dis-service by NOT informing yourself about Avalon, before you showed up to attack it... The meeting of Science and Spirituality has NOTHING to do with your ego,,, . It is a melding of ideas and concepts, in an attempt to find solutions. I think you need an opportunity to catch yourself up on discussions at Avalon.

My observations are re-enforced with each post that you make.

Jake.

[Earthlink]

Jake, would it not for the actual stated mission of Avalon, and having science and spirituality meet, I wouldn't even be here myself.

All the scientific community has EVER sought, from 1970 going forward, was for us to put the fire down, and step away.

That has been warped, and twisted beyond recognition, so, how do you even begin to restore it now?

[Earthlink]

annnnnnnd, I've just been moderated.

No, no i'm not going to take a week off and then return. If I am invited back, I may return, but just as an effort was made to ask me to leave, one will have to be made to get me to return. I'm spending the remainder of the summer and fall of 2014, trying to wake up my own people, and then I'm going overseas, to a place where I know O2 is being produced, and we have indoor space set up for this catastrophe which is unfolding everywhere here now. From that place I will likely never return.

I love you, pass it on.

[Jake]

Jake, would it not for the actual stated mission of Avalon, and having science and spirituality meet, I wouldn't even be here myself.

All the scientific community has EVER sought, from 1970 going forward, was for us to put the fire down, and step away.

That has been warped, and twisted beyond recognition, so, how do you even begin to restore it now?

We begin to restore it by giving up our false beliefs that science is going to save us. I would say the same thing to a religious person. Jesus aint gonna save us,,, neither is Newton or Einstein... Each of the groups that have come to power on our planet have let us down. Science included. Religion will not save you,,, science will not save you,,, Government will not save you,,, Money will not save you. There is something to be said about the amazing ability of people to learn to stand in their own power. No need to panic, my friend. You are with people who share your objectives. Try and not assume that we are ignorant, just because we don't have instant answers to your questions.

We can have a respectable debate on your statement about science if you like... Science has let us down too... Too many GMOs/heavy metals in the air/flouride in the water/Drones/ Hydrogen Bombs/ Micronukes/ I could go on and on.... This is all science, since the 70's... Bugging my house, bugging my phone,, irradiating my neihborhood with cell towers,,, HAARP,,, c'mon... I can make the case that science is destroying our world. But there are too many good minded and productive scientists to say that it is SCIENCE that is doing the destroying... Therefore it becomes silly to think that SCIENCE is only there for good.... It is about people, and relating to them in a way that inspires change. Science and spirituality meet at a place called consciousness,,,, and we cannot get to a good meeting place if we are insistent on attacking and discrediting others for not agreeing....

You can do much better...

Jake.

[Sierra]

annnnnnnd, I've just been moderated.

No, no i'm not going to take a week off and then return. If I am invited back, I may return, but just as an effort was made to ask me to leave, one will have to be made to get me to return. I'm spending the remainder of the summer and fall of 2014, trying to wake up my own people, and then I'm going overseas, to a place where I know O2 is being produced, and we have indoor space set up for this catastrophe which is unfolding everywhere here now. From that place I will likely never return.

I love you, pass it on.

That might be best...