View Full Version : This evening in Israel
Tesseract
11th July 2014, 01:42
Time to relax in a comfortable chair and watch Palestinians get murdered.
26311
Violet
11th July 2014, 02:27
"An eye for an eye only ends up making the whole world blind." - Mahatma Gandhi
Libico
11th July 2014, 05:39
I'm really not sure what the point of posting a picture like that is - yes, there are brain-washed people in all countries including Israel (and Palestine) that rejoice over destruction of their perceived enemies. The situation and what is happening here is horrible and the majority of the people on both sides don't want any sort of escalation. I'm sorry, but I akin a post like this to what you see on MSM pro-Israel news showing the few Palestinians glorifying an attack on Israel with celebration painting all Palestinians as mindless, rabid terrorists and terrorist supporters, and MSM pro-Palestinian news showing a picture like this where despite the massive bombardment going on in Gaza, the desensitized and racist Israelis are enjoying a BBQ and reveling in destruction and death.
I can understand your frustration and anger towards the overkill (and pointless) Israeli response - many of us here are feeling the same, but a post like this seems designed to further fan the flames on anger and resentment.
Polyamine
11th July 2014, 10:43
You are 100% wrong. In that picture, it shows the firing of Israel's Iron Dome missile defense system. That means that Hamas or the Palestinians have fired rockets at Israel and they are attempting to intercept them. If you wish to convey your political views, at least be correct with what you depict.
The Truth Is In There
11th July 2014, 10:57
the whole point of creating the state of israel in exactly that place was to set the stage for a third world war. since most humans don't think for themselves nothing that happens there is a surprise.
Tesseract
11th July 2014, 12:31
I can understand your frustration and anger towards the overkill (and pointless) Israeli response - many of us here are feeling the same, but a post like this seems designed to further fan the flames on anger and resentment.
There is not enough anger and resentment, that is the problem.
Observer1964
11th July 2014, 12:49
I can understand your frustration and anger towards the overkill (and pointless) Israeli response - many of us here are feeling the same, but a post like this seems designed to further fan the flames on anger and resentment.
There is not enough anger and resentment, that is the problem.
1st we've got to get MAD !!!
Our lives (incl. Palestinians) have value...
WGiX5tbLKiY
I can understand your frustration and anger towards the overkill (and pointless) Israeli response - many of us here are feeling the same, but a post like this seems designed to further fan the flames on anger and resentment.
There is not enough anger and resentment, that is the problem.
What you have depicted here is tragic. But the truth be known I doubt there is a country anywhere at any time that could not be depicted in a similar way. As long as there are imaginary nationalistic borders created by humans there will continue to be scenarios of tragedy and devastation. And, I do not believe anger and resentment will do anything except add another layer to the tragedies we are already experiencing.
Libico
11th July 2014, 13:17
I can understand your frustration and anger towards the overkill (and pointless) Israeli response - many of us here are feeling the same, but a post like this seems designed to further fan the flames on anger and resentment.
There is not enough anger and resentment, that is the problem.
I disagree with you here - I think the base emotion that the average citizen feels regarding the other side is anger and resentment... years and years of it that has built up. The problem is that it is being directed towards the generalized religion/nationality instead of the leadership. I can't comment on what a Palestinian in Gaza or West Bank is exposed to as far as media and societal norms, but in Israel it is literally pushed down our throats how we are the victims and Arabs will kill us if we ever let our guard down. Military successes are glorified to instill patriotism and we are never really presented with the humanity of the other side, as everything is just propaganda from anti-Semites. Our little interaction with Palestinians comes during army service when we are taught to look at them with suspicion and treat them like ****. Israeli victims are bombarded on TV to give us emotional attachment to their suffering, and Palestinian victims are given a short blurb or a dry statistic - rarely will you see the human side unless it is a positive thing (how we treated them in a hospital, or helped them in some other way - always with a slant to keep us as the good guys). I'm generalizing here, but that is what you see on TV news, and certainly what we've seen here over the past week.
All this does is further reinforce the emotional response of hatred and anger towards the other side - do you know how many seemingly intelligent people are quick to say "we need to go in and wipe them all out" or "we should bomb them to destroy everything there to show them - they don't understand anything else", or something along those lines. These aren't fanatical people and if you probe their rationale I find that the majority quickly backtrack on what they said, but it's the default instinctive response to damn an entire population without any form of sympathy or empathy as to what life may be like for them - it's what we've been taught.
So my response to your initial post was not trying to question your anger or resentment, but to hopefully show you that you directing your anger to Israelis in general isn't correct. Building awareness of the real issues won't be done by spouting hatred towards Israelis/Palestinians as it will just be dismissed outright and get people further entrenched in their positions.
rgray222
11th July 2014, 13:20
Time to relax in a comfortable chair and watch Palestinians get murdered.
26311
Putting more hate into the world serves no positive useful purpose.
Observer1964
11th July 2014, 15:59
Speaking for myself,
I think human population everywhere is made up of similar characters, and among them is a relative small but loudmouthed group that sees violence as a solution.
I am not blaming any human anywhere other than those in charge of the wrongdoing.
I understand how the world is manipulated in many ways but i cant be not angry over the spilling of innocent blood, no matter the nationality.
I dont see how not getting angry will change any thing, dont we all see how we are being led into an age of madness with all the consequences..
I just feel sad that even here we seem to just find dividedness...
Tesseract
11th July 2014, 22:24
You are 100% wrong. In that picture, it shows the firing of Israel's Iron Dome missile defense system. That means that Hamas or the Palestinians have fired rockets at Israel and they are attempting to intercept them. If you wish to convey your political views, at least be correct with what you depict.
From the Danish journalist: “Israelis bringing chairs 2 hilltop in sderot 2 watch latest from Gaza. Clapping when blasts are heard.”
And:
“People have dragged camping chairs and sofas to the top of the hill. Several sit with crackling bags of popcorn, while others smoke hookahs and talk cheerfully,”
Go back to hasbara school.
Tesseract
11th July 2014, 23:04
You see, I am not one of these effete neo-liberals who, as if they have been trained, repeat the typical politically correct narrative which benefits the status-quo. Such to the tune of ‘both sides need to refrain from violence’, ‘both sides are bad’, ‘we need to end the division’, and so on and so on, without ever committing themselves to supporting the resistance or condemning Zionism.
I put it to everyone who has viewed, thanked, or commented on this thread: which side are you on? Really, which side?
I, if it is not obvious, am on the side of the Palestinians, I always will be, and I will always be against the state of Israel. You can not be with Israel, and with the Palestinians at the same time. Israel by definition is a Jewish state, and one which has a policy of ‘Palestinians out’ and ‘Jews in’.
The position of not taking a side, and at the same time offering such bland (but possibly well meaning) statements as calling for unity, love and healing is in fact a moral failure, given the dynamic realities on the ground. These kinds of statements are like saying today ‘I am with the Ukrainian people’ – a completely meaningless, populist, cop-out, as it implies you are ‘with’ the fascists and the anti-fascists at the same time. The Israel-Palestine conflict is a litmus test. Just as Apartheid South Africa was a litmus test in the past. Unfortunately, there are a lot of people, in their liberal intellectualism, their quest to be seen on the intellectual moral high-ground, who are failing this litmus test.
The morally righteous thing to do regarding this conflict is to support the side of the Palestinians. It's not complicated, get off the fence and support the Palestinians. Personally, I hope that the F-16s dropping the bombs get shot down and the destroyers off the coast plough into a mine field. And to that end I wish all players in the Palestinian resistance every success, and I will not shy from making blatant, unqualified, attacks on Zionism and those who support it.
indigopete
11th July 2014, 23:56
All this does is further reinforce the emotional response of hatred and anger towards the other side - do you know how many seemingly intelligent people are quick to say "we need to go in and wipe them all out" or "we should bomb them to destroy everything there to show them - they don't understand anything else", or something along those lines. These aren't fanatical people and if you probe their rationale I find that the majority quickly backtrack on what they said, but it's the default instinctive response to damn an entire population without any form of sympathy or empathy as to what life may be like for them - it's what we've been taught.
Thanks for your contributions. It's very refreshing to read them and be reminded that there are independent thinkers on all sides who have more in common with each other than any of our so called "media" would have us believe.
Violet
12th July 2014, 00:42
Libico, I applaud your introspection.
I can't but hope someone/something/whatever can stop these gruesome events, on both sides, at once. Also, I wish there was something we could do for the victims, all or at least some of them.
Violet
12th July 2014, 00:54
You see, I am not one of these effete neo-liberals who, as if they have been trained, repeat the typical politically correct narrative which benefits the status-quo. Such to the tune of ‘both sides need to refrain from violence’, ‘both sides are bad’, ‘we need to end the division’, and so on and so on, without ever committing themselves to supporting the resistance or condemning Zionism.
I read this just now :p
Oh dear, I'm a neo-liberal :ohwell: And at the same time you and I share a feeling that something must be done:
Also, I wish there was something we could do for the victims, all or at least some of them.
I'll give you an example of something I was reminded of. I heard a muslim say that he found it unfair that he had to pay for what Bin Laden did by being questioned on a daily basis about how seriously he takes his holy book, what his feelings on terrorism are, if he agrees with what Bin Laden did, and so on...
This is an individual - like so many - that pays the price of what a group decides to commit on atrocities. Does not the same danger lurk here?
ghostrider
12th July 2014, 03:00
sad , people can't live in peace with their neighbors just because they view god differently than someone else ... all fighting over the sand and an imaginary line ... maybe that's where the expression , the line in the sand is drawn comes from ... you don't believe the way I do then you must be the devil and I must purge Evil , funny Evil backwards is Live ... our world is so backwards , the peace symbol is upside down it means death , the star of david stands for Violence ... the correct way the symbol for peace is like a tree growing up branching out , that means peace ... thanks to the plejaren for helping me understand where hatred and violence stems from = mis-information , corrupt teaching , and the spirit of power and control that was brought here by their ancestors long ago - the sons of heaven ...
Tesseract
12th July 2014, 03:42
You see, I am not one of these effete neo-liberals who, as if they have been trained, repeat the typical politically correct narrative which benefits the status-quo. Such to the tune of ‘both sides need to refrain from violence’, ‘both sides are bad’, ‘we need to end the division’, and so on and so on, without ever committing themselves to supporting the resistance or condemning Zionism.
I read this just now :p
Oh dear, I'm a neo-liberal :ohwell: And at the same time you and I share a feeling that something must be done:
Also, I wish there was something we could do for the victims, all or at least some of them.
I'll give you an example of something I was reminded of. I heard a muslim say that he found it unfair that he had to pay for what Bin Laden did by being questioned on a daily basis about how seriously he takes his holy book, what his feelings on terrorism are, if he agrees with what Bin Laden did, and so on...
This is an individual - like so many - that pays the price of what a group decides to commit on atrocities. Does not the same danger lurk here?
You have to be careful with trying to form parallels like this. From you example, it seems like the problem in your example is judging/becoming suspicious of all muslims because of the actions of Bin Laden. So, you risk making the extension that I, or others like me, are judging all Jews based on the actions of a few. Of course this would be wrong, for reasons that I hope I don't have to explain.
Alternatively - one may interpret what you said as there being a risk that I am judging all Zionists by the actions of a few, and that that would be bad. When in fact, I am indeed making a judgment against all Zionists - and I would reject any suggestion that this is somehow wrong of me, because the entire political movement is immoral and any one who subscribes to Zionism ought to be condemned because of that very subscription. Of course, the condemnation should be more severe for the worst of the bunch, as it was for the worst of the Nazis. So, to be clear, while there are completely innocent muslims, there are no completely innocent zionists - except for those who are too young to know better.
There is so much that could be done. Egypt could open the Rafa Gates (there must surely be some kind of secret agreement with Israel via the USA to keep them shut), the US and everyone else should stop supplying weapons (you have the absurd situation of Obama freely supplying Israel with bombs while simultaneously, allegedly, trying to negotiate a ceasefire), the arab states should run the blockade which is recognised internationally as being illegal, Israel should be held to account for it's nuclear program - so many things could be done even without firing a shot. Of course, the only people who do do anything are Iran, Syria, Hezbollah, Hamas, Fatah (all the 'bad' guys).
Observer1964
12th July 2014, 07:39
Just for a good perspective on how things evolved in Palestine over time...
https://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/507x373q90/109/palestineu.jpg
Someone made a nice comparisson with my country as example...
Suppose, in the United States a mad man comes to power who arrests and kills all people with a Frisian forefather.
It is a massacre of unprecedented scale, and when the anti-Frisian regime finally falls, it is clear that the Frisian survivors do not want to live in America. So there is a plan: Let the Frisians have their own state, and what is a more logical place than the country that according to ancient texts is Fries? Despite the Dutch resistance the United Nations votes to plan and attract people with a Frisian grandparent from around the world towards the new Frisian state,
generously subsidized by America.
Stel, in de verenigde staten wordt een gek de baas die alle mensen met een Friese grootouder laat oppakken en afmaken.
Het wordt een moordpartij van ongekende omvang, en als het anti-Friese bewind
eindelijk ten val komt, is duidelijk dat de Friese overlevenden niet meer in Amerika willen wonen. Dus komt er een plan: de Friezen krijgen een eigen staat, en wat is een logischer plek dan het land dat volgens oude teksten Fries is? Ondanks het Nederlandse verzet stemmen de Vereenigde Naties met het plan in en uit de hele wereld trekken mensen met een Friese grootouder richting de nieuwe Friese staat,
royaal gesubsidieerd door Amerika.
http://www.henriveldhuis.nl/LocalFiles/Israel_Palestijnen/IP_conflict_in_Nederland_NRC.jpg
* Sorry but i dont know how to scale the picture down here *
Now imagine this happening to your country....
Observer1964
12th July 2014, 08:49
As I understand semites are a people living in the middle east, nowadays Arabs, Palestinians etc...
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/8f/Semitic_languages.svg/698px-Semitic_languages.svg.png
The Khazars adopted the hebrew religion as a political move...
http://www.rense.com/general83/ddd01.jpg
5TVd8ovSPl4
The Hebrew bible has been translated and twisted the truth about events that happened long ago,
j4MXLB6SwPg
Full playlist;
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j4MXLB6SwPg&list=PL6AAB6004FC537CF7
Events that are described in bigger detail in the Sumerian tablets...
wiLnfyfh-3s
Full oversight of the tablets of the lost memories of Enki
http://www.onegoodkitty.com/OGK-Sumerian-tablets_files/image001.gif (http://www.onegoodkitty.com/OGK-Sumerian-tablets.htm)
After studying all this I get an understanding that God (the real creator of all) is not the same as the god of the bible, at least for the most part, and that these alien gods have been manipulating mankind since they made (geneticly modifying the homo erectus to us) them as workslaves.
According to the terra papers (http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/vida_alien/esp_vida_alien_63.htm) there are a few powerfull Star-empires, among them the SSSTA wich is located in the Orions belt. (thats why the pyramids are placed like Orion's belt.)
They are the ones behind for example Hitler (Orion=Ari-an)
anyway to cut it short, those Khazars 'worship' the SSSTA (Satan) and what is going on is just an agenda to bring Earth under direct control of this Orion-empire.
So I just see it with sad eyes, as I understand that this all just part of a agenda to enslave Earth...
To bad we let ourselves be devided so easily.
We are even warned this would happen in the revalations, and still we go on with the agenda, I can Imagine how much 'they' look down on us.
Violet
12th July 2014, 11:41
No judgment is to be passed on by me over you, Tesseract. Who am I?
This is a political hot potato that no one wishes to hold. You are one of the few that speaks out a direct stance, regardless of political correctness, as you also stated.
I am honest enough to admit: I don't know a solution of which I am confident it will benefit all involved. You may say, who brought zionism there, who's fault is all this in the first place, but the reality is that now you have a situation and now you have to deal with people.
When the Palestinian land robbed from its people, is returned to the owners, arises the question of what will be the faith of the jews. There lies the problem because again a parallel pops up with German history and there lies the sensitivity that makes people rather not bring up this case...
animovado
12th July 2014, 12:50
Peace prevails
when we forgive
our long-held
dream of ill will.
Freedom is a landscape
without the encircling walls
of guilt.
Tesseract
12th July 2014, 14:55
Israel blowing up a residential building:
waSPsI9-ge8
Probably using a US made JDAM.
Tesseract
12th July 2014, 15:06
No judgment is to be passed on by me over you, Tesseract. Who am I?
This is a political hot potato that no one wishes to hold. You are one of the few that speaks out a direct stance, regardless of political correctness, as you also stated.
I am honest enough to admit: I don't know a solution of which I am confident it will benefit all involved. You may say, who brought zionism there, who's fault is all this in the first place, but the reality is that now you have a situation and now you have to deal with people.
When the Palestinian land robbed from its people, is returned to the owners, arises the question of what will be the faith of the jews. There lies the problem because again a parallel pops up with German history and there lies the sensitivity that makes people rather not bring up this case...
Yes, that is certainly a good question. One might look back to Alsace [Lorraine] in Europe - maybe you know more about it than I do. It was annexed by Germany in the 1870s, and was subjected to a program of changing the ethnic landscape by settling more and more German families into the region. After WWI the Germans lost control - and, quite rightly, all the families who had settled in the area were ordered out. Likewise, Jewish colonialists should simply return to their home countries. Those who have roots to the region of course have every right to stay. The idea that Palestinians wan't to slaughter all Jews in the region is, of course, a myth.
Valle
12th July 2014, 17:26
"They are the ones behind for example Hitler (Orion=Ari-an)"
I got association to (but I have no clue..):
Khaz-aria and Ashke-nazi (maybe from from Akhen-aten, - monotheistic sun worship?)
Dorjezigzag
12th July 2014, 18:26
A day before Palestinian teenager Muhammad Abu Khudair was kidnapped and burned alive allegedly by six Israeli Jewish youths, Israeli lawmaker Ayelet Shaked published on Facebook a call for genocide of the Palestinians.
http://electronicintifada.net/sites/electronicintifada.net/files/styles/large/public/800px-ayelet_shaked.jpg?itok=nuOorROv
It is a call for genocide because it declares that “the entire Palestinian people is the enemy” and justifies its destruction, “including its elderly and its women, its cities and its villages, its property and its infrastructure.”
It is a call for genocide because it calls for the slaughter of Palestinian mothers who give birth to “little snakes.”
Her post was shared more than one thousand times and received almost five thousand “Likes.”
http://electronicintifada.net/blogs/ali-abunimah/israeli-lawmakers-call-genocide-palestinians-gets-thousands-facebook-likes
This is interesting as well. of course not all Israelis are like this, but people need to know this is going on.
dPxv4Aff3IA
http://electronicintifada.net/blogs/ali-abunimah/watch-video-israeli-racism-new-york-times-didnt-want-you-see
avid
12th July 2014, 18:47
Totally disgusting - please don't promote these vile people (however beguiling) here. The poor Palestinians have suffered so much, and yet an alien nation is forced upon them, and regularly poisons/murders and commits atrocities and the West fund IsreaHELL, and we sit and watch the biased MSM news, it's horrendous. How we can watch and not have any conscience - or do something to stop this - is unconscionable. The Zionists deffo have control in the West, and via all the banks. What ploys are around the corner of 'them' allowing' the spread of Islam globally? Playing one side off against another for years, and using the one side to annihilate their questionners.... Used for many years, again and again, the banksters are 'playing' again. Wars mean avoidance of the fact that their stranglehold on money is waning. Create diversions. Sickeningly true, and call them on this! Don't join the forces, don't buy their vile produce - walk away and IGNORE!!!
nenosema
12th July 2014, 20:15
in essence, to forget the nightmare of ill will, each of us must create peace in our hearts
it is us the victim
it is us the perpetrator
http://i1217.photobucket.com/albums/dd397/otherwanderer/1.jpg
http://i1217.photobucket.com/albums/dd397/otherwanderer/99755.png
http://i1217.photobucket.com/albums/dd397/otherwanderer/67848758.jpg
http://i1217.photobucket.com/albums/dd397/otherwanderer/ddd3f986e0ea4be7bc7cd20e279482fd.jpg
http://i1217.photobucket.com/albums/dd397/otherwanderer/IMG_4724.jpg
http://i1217.photobucket.com/albums/dd397/otherwanderer/dsc003721.jpg
http://i1217.photobucket.com/albums/dd397/otherwanderer/geometricgraphicdesignpattern-e1ac7c337724ca68e2018b13051189f6_m2.jpg
http://i1217.photobucket.com/albums/dd397/otherwanderer/keep_dreaming.jpg
http://i1217.photobucket.com/albums/dd397/otherwanderer/symbiosis.jpg
nenosema
12th July 2014, 20:16
http://i1217.photobucket.com/albums/dd397/otherwanderer/TrinityBrahmaVishnuShivaimage.jpg
http://i1217.photobucket.com/albums/dd397/otherwanderer/trip-1.jpg
http://i1217.photobucket.com/albums/dd397/otherwanderer/TrinityBrahmaVishnuShivaimage.jpg
http://i1217.photobucket.com/albums/dd397/otherwanderer/Trippy_Wallpaper_Wallpaper_ek2um.jpg
http://i1217.photobucket.com/albums/dd397/otherwanderer/urban_om.jpg
Tesseract
12th July 2014, 20:52
nenosema, please delete those images from your posts.
Polyamine
13th July 2014, 01:25
The morally righteous thing to do regarding this conflict is to support the side of the Palestinians. It's not complicated, get off the fence and support the Palestinians. Personally, I hope that the F-16s dropping the bombs get shot down and the destroyers off the coast plough into a mine field. And to that end I wish all players in the Palestinian resistance every success, and I will not shy from making blatant, unqualified, attacks on Zionism and those who support it.
It was the Palestinians that started this by killing the 3 teenagers. The Israelis just want to survive and they feel the best way to ensure their survival is to go on the offensive. I can't say that is the right thing to do, but I dang sure can't say its the wrong thing to do. I have seen this, if the Palestinians don't attempt to kill or harm the Israelis, the Israelis don't bomb the Palestinians. I have seen the Palestinians indiscriminately fire rockets into Israel for no apparent reason other than to kill Israelis.
Tesseract
13th July 2014, 02:06
The morally righteous thing to do regarding this conflict is to support the side of the Palestinians. It's not complicated, get off the fence and support the Palestinians. Personally, I hope that the F-16s dropping the bombs get shot down and the destroyers off the coast plough into a mine field. And to that end I wish all players in the Palestinian resistance every success, and I will not shy from making blatant, unqualified, attacks on Zionism and those who support it.
It was the Palestinians that started this by killing the 3 teenagers. The Israelis just want to survive and they feel the best way to ensure their survival is to go on the offensive. I can't say that is the right thing to do, but I dang sure can't say its the wrong thing to do. I have seen this, if the Palestinians don't attempt to kill or harm the Israelis, the Israelis don't bomb the Palestinians. I have seen the Palestinians indiscriminately fire rockets into Israel for no apparent reason other than to kill Israelis.
Every sentence you wrote is ridiculous, am I talking to a child (that is a serious question)? Even if you only want to look at recent times, the number of Palestinian children (and adults) killed by Israel is far higher than the other way around - you are just picking a single incident to try and justify mass murder. And then you have the Nakba, if you want to go a little further back in time.
You can't say that this is the wrong thing to do? Thousands of bombs dropped, 160 people dead and rising, thousands wounded, hundreds of buildings destroyed - all to punish a people who simply dare to resist being oppressed, murdered, starved and dispossessed? You can rationalise punitive genocide based on the murder of three people, yet at the same time you can't understand why rockets are being fired in the other direction? Someone has you very well trained, or you are simply a moron.
loungelizard
13th July 2014, 10:11
Tesseract - I completely understand the anger and frustration you feel but you are in danger of being blinded by these emotions. This terrible situation is far more complex than you are, for some reason, depicting. The passion and pain you feel are, unfortunately, going to prevent any weighty discussion on this thread as seen by your response to those who voice opinions contrary to your own. By presenting such a one-sided perspective, you are stirring up the very divisions that perpetuate hatred in this world: righteous anger is one of the most powerful of human emotions.
@Dorjezigzag: I can't pretend to understand the reason why you posted the words of the extremist Shaked on this thread, other than to elicit a vitriolic, knee-jerk response. Both sides in any conflict can use the words of fanatical zealots in an attempt to prove a point - to what end? Would it be helpful if I responded by wheeling out a few choice statements by extremists on the "other side"? Where do we go from such actions?
Inflammatory images such as the OP only serve to provoke other inflammatory images: is anyone going to post the photo of people showing a 3 fingered salute in celebration of the three Israeli teens kidnapped and murdered on June 12th? Where do we go from such actions?
Polyamine
13th July 2014, 10:29
Tesseract - I completely understand the anger and frustration you feel but you are in danger of being blinded by these emotions. This terrible situation is far more complex than you are, for some reason, depicting. The passion and pain you feel are, unfortunately, going to prevent any weighty discussion on this thread as seen by your response to those who voice opinions contrary to your own. By presenting such a one-sided perspective, you are stirring up the very divisions that perpetuate hatred in this world: righteous anger is one of the most powerful of human emotions.
@Dorjezigzag: I can't pretend to understand the reason why you posted the words of the extremist Shaked on this thread, other than to elicit a vitriolic, knee-jerk response. Both sides in any conflict can use the words of fanatical zealots in an attempt to prove a point - to what end? Would it be helpful if I responded by wheeling out a few choice statements by extremists on the "other side"? Where do we go from such actions?
Inflammatory images such as the OP only serve to provoke other inflammatory images: is anyone going to post the photo of people showing a 3 fingered salute in celebration of the three Israeli teens kidnapped and murdered on June 12th? Where do we go from such actions?
Good post.
Tesseract, you speak of the Israelis committing genocide. They only bomb what they think are military targets or where the rocket launch originated. If they wanted to commit genocide against the Palestinians, there would be no Palestinians in Palestine. Israel has nuclear weapons.
I don't mind you verbally assaulting me or my opinion. Our views are different and yet I don't verbally assault you or your character. Why is that? Perhaps I am rational about the situation and realize that attempting to belittle someone on a message board is of little use. It certainly would not change anyone's opinion. Would you like to apologize for your insults?
Observer1964
13th July 2014, 11:20
Hmm... Israel is Palestine...
Israel did not exsist until 1948, and was forced upon the Palestinians land.
I dont see how anybody rational ( not influenced by emotion ) cant understand the position of the Palestinians.
https://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/507x373q90/109/palestineu.jpg
What if Russia and China start helping the native americans to reconcer the USA and all americans are forced into California?
And if u do a little research on the history of the jewish people you'll find that Jew is short for Judean, a semite group with the hebrew religion from an area called Judea, most of the Zionist and right-oriented Israeli decent from the Khazars not even semite in origin.
I dont hate Israelis but i do hate injustice.
I've seen 2 videos of palestinian youngsters being shot for no reason, and a palestinian burned alive, 3 israeli youngsters killed, and in revenge for that a shelling of non-involved ppl who may have understandable sympathy for the killing of the 3 israeli youngsters.
But t me this is a play-off... setting ppl against each other ..
when two dogs fight for a bone a third runs away with it.
loungelizard
13th July 2014, 12:29
Observer, you are exhibiting clear features of righteous anger. I can recognise and empathise, cos I have exactly the same impulses :o
There is obviously is a place for the drive to "put things right" but the problem is that righteousness entails putting things right the way we think they should be put right - a belief that our standards are the "right" standards, even though our conclusions may be based on false assumptions. If we react based upon such strength of feeling, our actions will be tainted, and we will end up unintentionally causing more harm.
We have to learn that such a reaction is destructive - it creates more problems that it will ever solve. It destroys all chance of successful coexistence, as compromise is not an option.
As David Brin wrote, "…the human penchant for self righteous indignation underlies the obstinate dogmatism which is preventing solutions to myriad world problems."
An angry person has no awareness of the fact that there could be a bias in their viewpoint. It's only when we accept the futility of anger that we can control it.
Can you not see that for every example you cite here of injustices carried out by the Israelis, someone else could produce a dozen examples of, for example, blind hatred of Jews being generated in the Arab media? Such an approach is never ending - a downward cycle of partisan hatred that is being perpetuated all over this planet.
I could produce for you a list of scores of heartbreaking injustices going on at this very moment, as a result of conflicts throughout the world which will cause you to have an identical feeling of righteous anger. Injustices have been going on in the world for centuries. That doesn't make them right, but it does mean that we have to find another way to deal with them.
As I once read somewhere, "It's time to step off our high horses and into the ****"…
PS It's not possible to check the veracity of your statement "most of the Zionist and right-oriented Israeli decent from the Khazars" without extensive DNA testing of the individuals to whom you refer (can't see that happening!), but I assume you're basing this assertion on the Khazar hypothesis put forward in Koestler's work and the writing of Eran Elhaik. This is isn't the place to get into a deep discussion on this topic, but as a result of genetic research, the work of both of these authors has been widely discredited
Observer1964
13th July 2014, 12:55
Observer, you are exhibiting clear features of righteous anger. I can recognise and empathise, cos I have exactly the same impulses :o
Well I am not as angry as I may sound, I am not English speaking so my choice of words might be limited, and I know the meaning of the words but not always how it is weighed. My 'anger' is founded mostly in the fate of the children, they cant help being born on a side of a conflict, the religions that fuel these conflicts are in my view obslolete, twisted truth from long ago.
There is obviously is a place for the drive to "put things right" but the problem is that righteousness entails putting things right the way we think they should be put right - a belief that our standards are the "right" standards, even though our conclusions may be based on false assumptions. If we react based upon such strength of feeling, our actions will be tainted, and we will end up unintentionally causing more harm.
We have to learn that such a reaction is destructive - it creates more problems that it will ever solve. It destroys all chance of successful coexistence, as compromise is not an option.
As David Brin wrote, "…the human penchant for self righteous indignation underlies the obstinate dogmatism which is preventing solutions to myriad world problems."
An angry person has no awareness of the fact that there could be a bias in their viewpoint. It's only when we accept the futility of anger that we can control it.
Can you not see that for every example you cite here of injustices carried out by the Israelis, someone else could produce a dozen examples of, for example, blind hatred of Jews being generated in the Arab media? Such an approach is never ending - a downward cycle of partisan hatred that is being perpetuated all over this planet.
I could produce for you a list of scores of heartbreaking injustices going on at this very moment, as a result of conflicts throughout the world which will cause you to have an identical feeling of righteous anger. Injustices have been going on in the world for centuries. That doesn't make them right, but it does mean that we have to find another way to deal with them.
As I once read somewhere, "It's time to step off our high horses and into the ****"…
PS It's not possible to check the veracity of your statement "most of the Zionist and right-oriented Israeli decent from the Khazars" without extensive DNA testing of the individuals to whom you refer (can't see that happening!), but I assume you're basing this assertion on the Khazar hypothesis put forward in Koestler's work and the writing of Eran Elhaik. This is isn't the place to get into a deep discussion on this topic, but as a result of genetic research, the work of both of these authors has been widely discredited
Again, I am not all that angry anymore, I considder myself as a reincarnating Soul experiencing life, observing and participating in this holografic frequency channel we call our reality, and i see it as a school for the soul in wich we have to learn by experiencing all possibilities of life.
But I do feel that my emotions about the injustice towards the children is justified as observing participator in this drama.
Again I dont hate any group of ppl, I understand their stance is due to upbringing, religion, experiencing fear, seeking security etc...
I just hope I experienced enough mysery that in my next life I can live in a more socially stable society that has left its religious dogma's and doctrines behind them and base their collective conviction on truthfull scientific research, free of manipulation by power-holding institutions as countries, religions, ethnic groups etc... hopefully by accessing this thing called the Akasha-records also have a truthfull account of the real history, So we know where we come from, know where we are, and understand where we are going to as evolutional goal.
heyokah
13th July 2014, 13:13
They only bomb what they think are military targets or where the rocket launch originated. If they wanted to commit genocide against the Palestinians, there would be no Palestinians in Palestine.
Conversations with Gaza - July 11 2014 - Max Igan
Published on Jul 11, 2014
Operation "Defensive Edge" is a LIE. It is not defense, it is terrorism.
Israel is targeting civilians only, bombing mosks, houses, rescue teams, news teams, schools, special needs schools, hospitals, and even cemeteries.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6J5kMGoC3Ek
I can understand your frustration and anger towards the overkill (and pointless) Israeli response - many of us here are feeling the same, but a post like this seems designed to further fan the flames on anger and resentment.
There is not enough anger and resentment, that is the problem.
I disagree with you here - I think the base emotion that the average citizen feels regarding the other side is anger and resentment... years and years of it that has built up. The problem is that it is being directed towards the generalized religion/nationality instead of the leadership. I can't comment on what a Palestinian in Gaza or West Bank is exposed to as far as media and societal norms, but in Israel it is literally pushed down our throats how we are the victims and Arabs will kill us if we ever let our guard down. Military successes are glorified to instill patriotism and we are never really presented with the humanity of the other side, as everything is just propaganda from anti-Semites. Our little interaction with Palestinians comes during army service when we are taught to look at them with suspicion and treat them like ****. Israeli victims are bombarded on TV to give us emotional attachment to their suffering, and Palestinian victims are given a short blurb or a dry statistic - rarely will you see the human side unless it is a positive thing (how we treated them in a hospital, or helped them in some other way - always with a slant to keep us as the good guys). I'm generalizing here, but that is what you see on TV news, and certainly what we've seen here over the past week.
All this does is further reinforce the emotional response of hatred and anger towards the other side - do you know how many seemingly intelligent people are quick to say "we need to go in and wipe them all out" or "we should bomb them to destroy everything there to show them - they don't understand anything else", or something along those lines. These aren't fanatical people and if you probe their rationale I find that the majority quickly backtrack on what they said, but it's the default instinctive response to damn an entire population without any form of sympathy or empathy as to what life may be like for them - it's what we've been taught.
So my response to your initial post was not trying to question your anger or resentment, but to hopefully show you that you directing your anger to Israelis in general isn't correct. Building awareness of the real issues won't be done by spouting hatred towards Israelis/Palestinians as it will just be dismissed outright and get people further entrenched in their positions.
What you are saying is so familiar. In the US, the citizens are subjected to exactly the same propaganda. We are the good guys fighting terrorism for the world with our allied forces. MSM never bothers us with the atrocities that are brought on by the US. So if you believe the MSM you can feel that whatever damage we do to others is the price for "freedom" from the boogyman which is currently terrorists.
Tesseract
13th July 2014, 15:14
Tesseract - I completely understand the anger and frustration you feel but you are in danger of being blinded by these emotions. This terrible situation is far more complex than you are, for some reason, depicting. The passion and pain you feel are, unfortunately, going to prevent any weighty discussion on this thread as seen by your response to those who voice opinions contrary to your own. By presenting such a one-sided perspective, you are stirring up the very divisions that perpetuate hatred in this world: righteous anger is one of the most powerful of human emotions.
Dear Loungelizard, I assure you that I am not being blinded by anything, as a matter of fact my eyes and my mind are wide open. And, incidentally, there has been far more discussion on this thread than most threads that I start. I have written several long, constructed, academic almost, posts here on Avalon that really get no kind of response. If someone here makes a post that is an apology for Zionism or the actions of Israel – then I will use that as a platform to make further attacks against Zionism and those who support it. It seems like a lot of people on this thread wish that I would stop doing that. When you say ‘contrary to your own’ it kind of makes the imputation that some of what I am writing in this thread is ego-driven, I don’t know whether you meant it that way or not – but for the record it certainly is not.
This anger of mine that you speak of is not something that has just flashed up in response to media coverage of the latest bombing of Gaza – rather I am a long time supporter of Palestine and my views at this point are no different than they have been for many years. Nothing I am writing here is hasty, irrational or blinded. Although, I do know that it is a shock to many people to hear unfettered and unqualified attacks against Israel, the IDF and Zionism. It is even more of a shock to hear praise of groups like Hezbollah. It’s not quite what they are used to, they are used to the moderated approach, which is in farcical ignorance of the situation on the ground. There is a backlash that you get from this stance – some of which you have seen on this thread, some of which you haven’t (because on the whole the people on this forum are very reasonable) – but anytime you take a firm stand that is what will happen.
And, I have to ask this. Somewhere, right now, there is an F-16 flying over Israel/Palestine with a payload of JDAM guided bombs and a mission to drop them on a target in Gaza. At the same time, warships off the coast are manoeuvring to line up new targets for shelling. In my opinion, these planes and ships should be attacked and destroyed, for what they are planning to do is completely illegitimate, and I would support any attempt by the resistance forces to do so. Apparently some of you feel that this is a little extreme. I would like to hear from anyone who disagrees with my stance here – the invitation is given for anyone to expound on why this would be the wrong thing to do. I’ll read the responses and respond as I see fit.
And another thing, it is better to be divided than to be united (or apathetic) in wrongdoing. Yes, there is a division that I want to see – I want to see as many people firmly and unambiguously opposing Israel as possible. Israel has too much support, much of it tacit. Israel gets away with its crimes because so many moderators wrongly posit that Israel is a legitimate state that should defend itself; and moderators who, when there is a condemnation of violence, wrongly condemn the Palestinian resistance factions with equal measure - when it is these resistance factions that (as the UN recognises) have the right to resistance.
Besides, we are now seeing Hamas and Hezbollah co-ordinating with each other. This is in addition with Fatah/Hamas reconciliation which is one of the things that has outraged and scared Israeli politicians so much. This is exactly what should be happening – people, groups and countries with quite different backgrounds coming together to put up a front against Israel.
You accuse me of providing a one-sided perspective. I have no support for the Zionists. None. I’m not going to present the reasons for what they are doing, for to do so would be to act as if they had some kind of legitimacy. Really, why should I do that? Why should I detail the Zionist perspective? Hasbara? From me?
Polyamine
13th July 2014, 15:24
Tesseract, do you support Hamas and Hezbollah? If you do not support them, do you denounce them?
Tesseract
13th July 2014, 15:25
I don't mind you verbally assaulting me or my opinion. Our views are different and yet I don't verbally assault you or your character. Why is that? Perhaps I am rational about the situation and realize that attempting to belittle someone on a message board is of little use. It certainly would not change anyone's opinion. Would you like to apologize for your insults?
Oh, you certainly did your best to belittle me in your earlier post, and it was of little use. No, I would not like to apologise. Would you like to apologise for your defense of the indefensible?
Tesseract
13th July 2014, 15:33
Tesseract, do you support Hamas and Hezbollah? If you do not support them, do you denounce them?
I support their defense of Palestine and Lebanon - I don't support their religious beliefs.
Polyamine
13th July 2014, 17:00
Tesseract, do you support Hamas and Hezbollah? If you do not support them, do you denounce them?
I support their defense of Palestine and Lebanon - I don't support their religious beliefs.
Do you feel they are terrorists?
Observer1964
13th July 2014, 17:34
Do you feel they are terrorists?
If I was Israeli I propably would, If I was Palestinian I would probably not.
The french maquis during ww2 was called terrorist by the germans, by the french resistance, so it depends on where you stand.
But from my point I do see them as the underdogs.
loungelizard
13th July 2014, 17:45
Tesseract, do you support Hamas and Hezbollah? If you do not support them, do you denounce them?
I support their defense of Palestine and Lebanon - I don't support their religious beliefs.
I'd be interested to hear how that works for you: reading the Hamas covenant, one understands that they are clearly inextricably linked.
https://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/507x373q90/109/palestineu.jpg
Observer1964
13th July 2014, 17:57
Why do we ignore what is really going on here?
Israel is taking over Palestine, and the Palestinians have hardly any of their land left.
What would you do if someone big and strong comes living in your house uninvited and pushes you out and the police (U.N.) helps this invader?
just leave and be homeless or try to get the invader out?
Dorjezigzag
13th July 2014, 18:15
A history of the land now named Israel.
4pKMV6e5kEo
Do we not learn, What is now happening in this land is a travesty.
http://img3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20110709060701/glee/images/a/a8/Ostrich_head_in_sand.jpg
Billy
13th July 2014, 18:30
Concerning the OP picture.
Having been in the war zone in Bosnia, It is normal behaviour for the civilians if they are able, to head to the hills away from the danger zone and watch the fireworks from a safe distance. Just as millions watched the Iraqi war unfold on TV.
Yes speak out against the Zionists and The Israeli Government and military, Hammas ,Hezbollah, And any one else who does not think that all are equal and life is sacred. they deserve it.
But the people of Israel and the poor Palestinians people only ever want peace.
@Tesseract, I think the OP picture and comment is an insult to the everyday Israeli citizens. ONE female smiling at a camera has no meaning. It is a pity you started what could be an interesting thread by posting a picture distorted by peoples interpretations, with no links provided as to its source.
Insulting a member by calling them a Moron is also not the way forward.
some self moderating is called for.
What is the solution for the people of Palestine and Israel, A debate that is most welcomed in Avalon, Is there a solution that could bring peace to this horrific situation. It does not appear so.
My personal thoughts are,
The intentional divide and conquer by creating the state of Israel in 1948 by those who believe they are in control was a disaster from the beginning, initiated to bring on the bastards in power agenda of world war 111.
A shame the world is falling for this lie which does not have to happen. A homeland for the displaced Jewish population who survived the genocide did not have to be in Palestine. A homeland was what was required, That homeland could have been anywhere.
My personal solution.
The people of Israel awaken to the fact that they are used as pawns by their leaders and those who believe they in control as they attempt to steer towards Armageddon. The people of Israel say. enough is enough, NOT IN MY NAME.
Everyone moves out of Jerusalem, NO ONE ever moves back in. A new homeland is given to Israel. The history of lies is realized, Jerusalem becomes a monument for all nations, religions and future generations. The city of Jerusalem becomes a University where Schools of learning are built to teach the true history of humanity. For all the worlds truth seekers to attend. The lies of religions are realized and the true history of the creation of religions are learned.
Peace reigns
and i am allowed to think outside the box.
Observer1964
13th July 2014, 18:57
My personal solution.
The people of Israel awaken to the fact that they are used as pawns by their leaders and those who believe they in control as they attempt to steer towards Armageddon. The people of Israel say. enough is enough, NOT IN MY NAME.
Everyone moves out of Jerusalem, NO ONE ever moves back in. A new homeland is given to Israel. The history of lies is realized, Jerusalem becomes a monument for all nations, religions and future generations. The city of Jerusalem becomes a University where Schools of learning are built to teach the true history of humanity. For all the worlds truth seekers to attend. The lies of religions are realized and the true history of the creation of religions are learned.
Peace reigns
and i am allowed to think outside the box.
Best solution I heard sofar.
Maybe we create a land for them where no one can claim anything...
Like the artificial Island of Dubai, but bigger, a large circular Island and then pump out the water of the encircled area et voila, with modern technology and know-how this should't be all that difficult.
Ulyse30
13th July 2014, 19:18
La seule chose que nous voulons,c'est la paix,la paix,la paix,le drapeau blanc partout sur Terre,.....!!!! Ceci est mon pain quotidien,ceci est mon obsession personnelle,depuis l'enfance que je souffre en silence en ce qui concerne les guerres sur la Terre,....je ne suis plus capable d'écouter les nouvelles à la T.V.,depuis environ 1999,je lie encore moins les journaux,je suis plus capable des mensonges,etc!!!Je perd plus mon temps avec ces manipulations,je me concentre sur mes méditations,.....!!!!
Observer1964
13th July 2014, 19:23
La seule chose que nous voulons,c'est la paix,la paix,la paix,le drapeau blanc partout sur Terre,.....!!!!
Daar sluit ik mij volledig bij aan.
Ulyse30
13th July 2014, 19:50
Toutes les solutions positives ici,sont de très bonnes solutions!!!Les problèmes vient de plus haut,de ceux qui tirent les ficelles,ils ont déjà plusieurs solutions à leurs dossiers,mais ils veulent pas,que sa ce règle,...!!!!
ThePythonicCow
13th July 2014, 19:52
As it was for Billy in his post above (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?72897-This-evening-in-Israel&p=853245&viewfull=1#post853245), this thread has been both provocative and concerning for me.
For the purposes of my response here, let me define war as "the large scale rape, pillage, murder, genocide, enslavement, torture and terrorizing of humans, by other humans."
As is clear to anyone who reads history or observes current events, humanity apparently has a propensity for war, thusly defined. I say "apparently" because I think that this propensity is imposed, not inherent.
I find some interesting parallels between war and cancer. In both cases, like turns on like. As human civilization has a propensity for war, so do human (and other such) bodies have a propensity for cancer.
In the case of cancer, the proper response (in my view) is neither to ignore it, hoping for the best, nor to attack it viciously by trying to cut, burn or poison it, as is the current "standard of medical care." Rather I recommend better supporting the body's own well being, while reducing the toxic and irritating influences, thus allowing the body's own preference for healthy tissue to regain the upper hand. One does not ignore the cancer, but rather notices it, as one of several useful sources of feedback guiding one's efforts further.
War, as I broadly defined it, warrants a similar response. It does not work to ignore it, sticking our head in the sand ostrich style, with the (false) hope that if only we all loved each other, war would be obsolete. In my (admittedly, conspiracy inclined) view, war is a toxin on human civilization deliberately instigated by some smaller number of bastards who do not have humanity's best interests at heart. That toxin will not go away just because we hope it will. Rather a healthier, stronger human civilization will be more resistant to it, and an informed civilization can better focus its resistance to these bastards, and better guide its endeavors to a healthier, more humane, civilization.
Let us not fall into "he said, she said" justifications for continuing the war due to claims that the other side started it: "They shot first. Annihilate them!"
Let us not fall into "they deserve it" justifications for continuing the war with claims that "See! The other side enjoys their brutality. They are sub-human and unworthy of any mercy."
Let us humans work together to build a stronger and healthier civilization, that respects strong, free and healthy individuals and that contributes to a healthier planet. Let us continue to identify and diminish the influence of the bastards that would abuse this planet, its life and our humanity.
Observer1964
13th July 2014, 20:02
Créer des îles artificielles pour Gaïa ce n'est pas bon,Dubaï n'est pas bon pour Gaïa,pomper l'eau n'est pas bon pour Gaïa,....
There are places that were once above water and are now only covered by a undeep see that could easily be dry again. big parts of my country are below sealevel too.
Anyway to me that sounds better than taking land thats allready occupied
Ulyse30
13th July 2014, 20:17
Notre Terre,nous aiment,elle nous accueillent,partout il y a de la vie,partout il y a de la place,le problème c'est que certains esprits humains et non humains contrôlants gèrent les conflits pour qu'ils durent,.....Je suis certains qu'ont peux régler les conflits,mais il faut trouver des solutions pacifiques,....un terrain d'entente pacifique!!!!Ils aiment compliquer les situations en jetant de l'huile sur LES FEUX,déjà biens alimentés depuis des décennies,ces l'une de leurs tactiques,.....
Tesseract
13th July 2014, 21:37
Of course it would be ideal if there were a collective change of views in Israel – I have exactly considered this scenario myself. The reality is though, that Israel, at least since the early 2000s, has been steadily inching towards the right, the apartheid system has been underscored with the construction of walls around Palestinian areas, and the settler programs have gotten bigger and bigger. I recall, back in the early days of the second intifada, when Israel used a fighter jet to launch air strikes against Palestinian targets it was major news, because it was the first time in a long time that this had happened. Nowadays, these kinds of air strikes are routine and are barely a cause for commentary, even outside of these major offensives. The reality is that the bombs are falling, the missiles are flying, the tanks are rolling and the Palestinian people are engaged in a desperate attempt to defend their own lives – and they are receiving almost no defensive assistance at the state level.
Some kind of mass awakening of Israeli Zionists to their own depravity is a hope, yes – but it is quite a stretch to call it a solution, much less one of any tangible probability. It’s a relatively facile exercise to come up with ideal (where no one loses anything) but utterly unlikely outcomes. It’s easy to ignore the fact that exiled Palestinians and Jewish immigrants/settlers lay claim to exactly the same pieces of land. My preference is for the foreign implants to be removed and the Palestinians let back in to the land of their birth – not something that is possible if you only want to subscribe to implausible fantasies where no one loses anything.
I note that no one has yet taken up my offer to explain why it would be wrong to shoot down the jets and destroy the destroyers. The invitation stands. I take it that people are still searching for an argument... Maybe someone will post some photos of kittens and say ‘what about this instead?’
I support world vision, even though they are an overtly Christian, proselytising organisation. If it came to a vote I would most likely not vote for Hamas over Fatah, but that does not mean I don’t support their democratic legitimacy or their resistance efforts on the ground. Hamas won the Palestinian general elections, freely and fairly, and had a clear mandate to govern Palestine. Their chance to do this was destroyed. The definition of Hamas and Fatah as terrorist organisations switches with the nature of their opposition with Israel. Israel had a relationship with Hamas (or what would become Hamas) when senior figures like Yassin were calling for restraint - at a time when Fatah was at the forefront of the armed resistance. Situation is now reversed. As for Hezbollah, no I do not consider them a terrorist organisation, in fact they are one of the biggest forces against Islamic terrorists in the region. Further, I recall the war between Israel and Hezbollah after the Israeli invasion of Lebanon in 2006 – the ratio of civilians to militants killed was lower for Hezbollah offensives than it was for Israeli offensives. Hezbollah also has democratic representation, and while I wouldn’t necessarily vote for them I recognise and support their resistance on the ground and their democratic legitimacy.
I used the picture in the OP to open the debate – and at the time I didn’t know if it would get a response or not. However, the actual picture is really quite irrelevant, as that scene has played out before during other offensives against gaza – but only this time did it, for some reason, garner media attention. The bombing operation has major support in Israel and whether someone is in a deck chair supporting this murder, or on the telephone speaking to a pollster, doesn’t really matter. And you can keep talking about it, but I’m not going to lose any sleep over insulting Zionists, and I refer anyone concerned to the substance of that user’s post when judging whether or not is was valid to question if that person was a child or if they lacked intelligence (see, it’s not really any less insulting just by removing one word, for the actual offense is in the substance of the message).
I see quite a few people using the strategy of making the imputation that, because of my condemnation, without caveat, of the state of Israel, my unapologetic destruction of Zionist apology, my arguments on the moral weakness of neutrality and giving credence to Israeli hasbara, that I am dissuading contributions. You need to understand that this intensity is the very nature of my opposition. Why shouldn’t I be mad at you all for trying to shut me, and anyone else with an incisive, but accurate comment, down? If I tell a lie, or make a mistake, by all means let me know. If you have a compelling argument against my own views, please make it. I have already invited this. But don’t put me on a guilt trip for standing up for, without any platitudinous ambiguity or assuagement (which we seem to be addicted to), a people in plight. You may be surprised to know that love and humanity is at the core of even the sharp end of the resistance effort.
Wind
13th July 2014, 21:58
Unbiased reporting from Vice News. The situation is really disheartening, I can't believe that the international community allows this to continue, but I'm not really surprised since US' criminal government supports Israel's criminal government. Meanwhile the situation in Ukraine is getting really bad too... I wonder if all of this is planned or are the escalations just "natural"?
ssoZUSOgELk
ulli
13th July 2014, 22:04
Unbiased reporting from Vice News. The situation is really disheartening, I can't believe that the international community allows this to continue, but I'm not really surprised since US' criminal government supports Israel's criminal government. Meanwhile the situation in Ukraine is getting really bad too... I wonder if all of this is planned or are the escalations just "natural"?
ssoZUSOgELk
There is nothing natural about poly-ticks. It's all planned.
The earliest quote was from abolitionist minister Theodore Parker (1810-1860)
who said in 1848, “They called him (John Tyler --ed.) an accident; but there are no accidents in politics.”
A similar saying (incorrectly credited to Franklin D. Roosevelt) is
“In politics, nothing happens by accident. If it happens you can bet it was planned that way.”
Wind
13th July 2014, 22:26
There is nothing natural about poly-ticks. It's all planned.
That's what I was guessing, politics as usual and human lives don't mean anything to the leaders. I'm still wondering if certain factions would want certain prophecies (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?67024-Two-Blood-Red-Moons-Prophecy-and-possible-deaths-of-two-world-leaders&p=779380&viewfull=1#post779380) come to life...
Tangri
14th July 2014, 00:59
A photograph of Israeli residents of the town of Sderot leisurely watching the IDF’s aerial bombardments of the Gaza Strip went viral on social media over the weekend.
The picture, which was snapped by Danish journalist Allan Sorensen and subsequently posted on his Twitter feed, shows Israelis relaxing on lawn chairs while in the background lights emanate from the heavily bombarded Gaza Strip.
http://www.jpost.com/Operation-Protective-Edge/Twitter-photo-showing-Israelis-cheering-Gaza-bombing-goes-viral-362474
Affluentem is a serious problem .
Cause to have an Affluantia.
http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?66438-Affluentia-is-an-immunity-for-persecution&p=771460#post771460
panopticon
14th July 2014, 04:21
I read through this thread late last night and decided to have a bit of a cogitate before I responded.
First, the attack on Gaza by Israel has nothing to do with the 3 Israeli-Jewish youth nor the Israeli-Arab youth that were slaughtered. Those deplorable acts have been used as the justification for a political action. The Uncle of one of the murdered Israeli youth asked that no escalation of violence occur so the attack on Gaza is not “an eye for an eye justice” in at least his case (source (http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2014/07/03/israel-palestinian-revenge_n_5555046.html)). As a question, and I mean no disrespect to anyone with this, is there any evidence that the 3 youths were slaughtered by Hamas militants? It would not be the first time that rhetoric moved public debate and perception with little if any evidence. Again, I mean no disrespect and genuinely ask the question as I have not seen a report stating the evidence to support this position, only Bibi (Netanyahu (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benjamin_Netanyahu)) saying that it is fact (there may have been a report in Israeli that I am unfamiliar with).
At the time of the murder of the Israeli-Jewish youth I thought that the timing was rather fortuitous for Bibi and his far-right coalition members. Now the dangers of the surrounding forces (with Abbas gaining credibility in the West and the Pope praying for peace between the Palestinian/Israeli factions) could be re-imagined and the “enemy within” rhetoric reinforced. Looking at the rise of ISIS (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_State_of_Iraq_and_the_Levant) and the continued destabilisation of the region, following the "coalition of lies" that led to the attack on Iraq, might assist others to bring into focus the regions tensions. Look at the situation in Syria (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Syrian_Civil_War) and Eqypt (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamist_unrest_in_Egypt_(2013%E2%80%93present)). They are not stable regional leaders. Abdel Fattah el-Sisi (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abdel_Fattah_el-Sisi) has only just been elected in Egypt and the next year will tell us how he will progress in controlling fundamentalism and creating much needed economic reforms. Add to that the on-going negotiations between the US, UK, France, Germany, Russia, China and Iran over the Iranian nuclear program. Remember Bibi’s declaration (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gBMs9TEh66Y) that the weakening of sanctions on Iran could lead to war? In addition, in a recent interview with CBS, Bibi linked the Iranian nuclear negotiations with Hamas and Gaza and declaring that Iran is a “terrorist empire (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iZPktFZcMVs)”.
To move forward in discussion it is important to remember that the people who are creating the situation in Palestine/Israel/Gaza are the extremists. It is not the moderates who argue that all of the land Israel occupies is theirs because God gave it to them under a covenant. It is not the moderates who argue that Israel should be destroyed. Ayelet Shaked (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ayelet_Shaked) is a member of the Israeli Parliament (the Knesset) and part of the ruling coalition (her party, Bait Yehudi [The Jewish Home (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Jewish_Home)], being a major coalition member and a far-right religious-Zionist party). To not discuss her views would be to ignore a large swathe of Israeli society that she and her opinions represent. It is appropriate, in my opinion anyway, to say that there are those who raise their voices against such views but not appropriate to say that a member of parliaments war mongering and calls for retribution against innocent youths (as occurred following her declaration which was soundly based in Deuteronomic teachings [20: 16-17 (https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Deuteronomy%2020:16-17&version=GW)]) should be ignored as extremist. That goes doubly when that member of parliament is a leading member of the ruling coalition.
This is all about money, control and power. Place it in that context when looking at it. Yes, there is a religious element that is fundamental to understanding what is occurring in the region.
We ignore it at our peril.
-- Pan
Sierra
14th July 2014, 11:00
I see quite a few people using the strategy of making the imputation that, because of my condemnation, without caveat, of the state of Israel, my unapologetic destruction of Zionist apology, my arguments on the moral weakness of neutrality and giving credence to Israeli hasbara, that I am dissuading contributions. You need to understand that this intensity is the very nature of my opposition. Why shouldn’t I be mad at you all for trying to shut me, and anyone else with an incisive, but accurate comment, down? If I tell a lie, or make a mistake, by all means let me know. If you have a compelling argument against my own views, please make it. I have already invited this. But don’t put me on a guilt trip for standing up for, without any platitudinous ambiguity or assuagement (which we seem to be addicted to), a people in plight. You may be surprised to know that love and humanity is at the core of even the sharp end of the resistance effort.
Conflation occurs when the identities of two or more individuals, concepts, or places, sharing some characteristics of one another, seem to be a single identity — the differences appear to become lost.
In logic, conflation is the practice of treating two distinct concepts as if they were one, which produces errors or misunderstandings as a fusion of distinct subjects tends to obscure analysis of relationships which are emphasized by contrasts.
Rocky_Shorz
14th July 2014, 16:51
You see, I am not one of these effete neo-liberals who, as if they have been trained, repeat the typical politically correct narrative which benefits the status-quo. Such to the tune of ‘both sides need to refrain from violence’, ‘both sides are bad’, ‘we need to end the division’, and so on and so on, without ever committing themselves to supporting the resistance or condemning Zionism.
I put it to everyone who has viewed, thanked, or commented on this thread: which side are you on? Really, which side?
I, if it is not obvious, am on the side of the Palestinians, I always will be, and I will always be against the state of Israel. You can not be with Israel, and with the Palestinians at the same time. Israel by definition is a Jewish state, and one which has a policy of ‘Palestinians out’ and ‘Jews in’.
The position of not taking a side, and at the same time offering such bland (but possibly well meaning) statements as calling for unity, love and healing is in fact a moral failure, given the dynamic realities on the ground. These kinds of statements are like saying today ‘I am with the Ukrainian people’ – a completely meaningless, populist, cop-out, as it implies you are ‘with’ the fascists and the anti-fascists at the same time. The Israel-Palestine conflict is a litmus test. Just as Apartheid South Africa was a litmus test in the past. Unfortunately, there are a lot of people, in their liberal intellectualism, their quest to be seen on the intellectual moral high-ground, who are failing this litmus test.
The morally righteous thing to do regarding this conflict is to support the side of the Palestinians. It's not complicated, get off the fence and support the Palestinians. Personally, I hope that the F-16s dropping the bombs get shot down and the destroyers off the coast plough into a mine field. And to that end I wish all players in the Palestinian resistance every success, and I will not shy from making blatant, unqualified, attacks on Zionism and those who support it.
someone sent an important quote over on twitter I'm hit by Israel cyber trolls all the time, but very few understand...
"Whosoever shows your fault is a friend, those that pay you lip service are your executioners..." Umar Ibn al-Khattab
if Israel understood those who are hardest on them, are not anti-semitic and to be ignored, they are the ones who should be listened to the closest...
israel has used nuclear weapons on Gaza, thermo nukes like those used in 9/11, most israelis know a retribution strike is coming on Tel-Aviv they have given permission with their actions.
those who praise israel's greatness like John McCain are warmongers, that just want a reason to go to war... they are the executioners...
the quote was sent to me by a Jewish Rabbi...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nMQ9C6vni0w
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BshYfPMCMAEL7ts.jpg
are we all anti-semitic, or is Israel's leadership going against Jewish interest?
insiders report King David speaking for Christians Condemns Israel's actions against his people the Palestinians...
Billy
14th July 2014, 21:50
Scotland offers help to the wounded Palestinians.
SHAME ON EVERY SINGLE COUNTRY IN THE WORLD. Thank YOU Scotland!!!! #FreedomForPalestine #HelpIsOnTheWay pic.twitter.com/KRZJwszv4j
https://twitter.com/iyeezyk/status/487172911737106432
26350
26351
http://www.5pillarz.com/2014/07/10/scottish-government-pledges-to-provide-hospitals-to-treat-injured-gazans/
http://www.aljazeera.com/news/middleeast/2014/07/world-reacts-conflict-gaza-201471073217736666.html
Scotland, which is in the UK but has its own parliament separate to London's House of Commons, called on both sides to "de-escalate" the situation and offered to help treat civilians injured in the conflict.
"Scotland stands ready to offer whatever assistance we can and it is in that spirit that we make this offer, to give specialist medical help to civilians caught up in the conflict should medical evacuation be possible," said External Affairs Minister Humza Yousaf.
Peace
Cidersomerset
14th July 2014, 22:02
Message from a 10 yr old Palestinian girl, ‘I’m still
alive and I’m not dead, so don’t kill me, give me
the chance to still alive. Bye.’
Monday 14th July 2014 at 10:56 By david-icke
2co3rRebUiQ
This image struck such a chord that it had 36,000 likes on Facebook before, yes, Facebook took it down
Rocky_Shorz
14th July 2014, 22:13
5 hours until proposed ceasefire begins, it is going to be a painful night for Gaza...
Net&Yahoo accepted, Hamas isn't happy with the agreement...
it is confirmed to be unconfirmed the ceasefire is confirmed... mid East politics...
Sierra
14th July 2014, 22:37
Message from a 10 yr old Palestinian girl, ‘I’m still
alive and I’m not dead, so don’t kill me, give me
the chance to still alive. Bye.'
This image struck such a chord that it had 36,000 likes on Facebook before, yes, Facebook took it down
Of course they did. The owners of Facebook are CIA warmongers.
Cidersomerset
14th July 2014, 22:42
Lets hope the ceasefire comes into place.......
Fatal Edge: Over 180 Palestinians killed, thousands flee as Israel broadens bombing blitz
7qFACycihfk
Published on 14 Jul 2014
There's no respite for the people of Gaza, in Israel's now week-long anti-terrorist
operation. Thousands have fled - with the number of Palestinians killed reaching
175, most of them civilian. The UN says 32 of them are children - and calls the
situation in the region devastating and unpredictable. Harry Fear is in Gaza for RT,
talking to some of the victims' relatives.
RT LIVE http://rt.com/on-air
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://static.bbci.co.uk/frameworks/barlesque/2.60.9/desktop/3.5/img/blq-blocks_grey_alpha.png
14 July 2014 Last updated at 22:39 Share this pageEmail Print Share this page
Egypt proposes Israel-Gaza ceasefireJump media playerMedia player helpOut of
media player. Press enter to return or tab to continue.
Scary vid on link.....http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-28302539
Three men sitting on the steps of a building, spotted by an Israeli drone,
seconds later blown apart , in the wrong place at the wrong time.....
The BBC's Jeremy Bowen in Gaza: "Until a ceasefire comes, the people in most danger here are civilians"
Egypt has proposed a ceasefire to end a week of cross-border fire between the Gaza Strip and Israel.
The initiative, announced by the foreign ministry, urges a ceasefire starting on Tuesday morning
followed by a series of meetings in Cairo with high-level delegations from both sides.
It comes ahead of an urgent meeting of Arab League foreign ministers in Cairo.
Hamas, the faction that controls Gaza, confirmed that truce efforts were under way but said no
deal had yet been done. Israeli officials said Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu's security cabinet
would convene on Tuesday to discuss the proposal.
A senior Israeli official told the BBC that Hamas was "much weaker" after air strikes destroyed
many of its rockets and manufacturing facilities.
Palestinian officials say at least 175 people in Gaza have been killed by Israeli air strikes since the
offensive began last Tuesday.
Israel says nearly 1,000 rockets have been fired from Gaza in that time.
Thousands of people have fled their homes in northern Gaza after an Israeli warning and Israel has
also massed thousands of troops on the border, amid speculation of a possible ground invasion.
Ismail Haniyeh, a Hamas leader in Gaza, said in a speech broadcast on al-Jazeera that Hamas was
not only seeking an end to the fighting but also an easing of the Israeli blockade that has crippled life in Gaza.
"The problem is the reality of Gaza, the siege, the starving, the bombing. The siege must stop and
people in Gaza need to live in dignity," he said.
Jump media playerMedia player helpOut of media player. Press enter to return or tab to continue.
vid on link....http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-28302539
The Gaza Strip's troubled history - in 80 seconds
Israel imposed a blockade on Gaza when Hamas - which is designated a terrorist group by Israel,
the US and other countries - took over in 2007.
Israel is demanding an end to rocket attacks on its towns and cities from Gaza.
Egyptian state media has reported that US Secretary of State John Kerry will be in Cairo on Tuesday to try
to help broker a truce, but the US has not confirmed this.
Middle East peace envoy Tony Blair welcomed the Egyptian proposal and praised the "leadership Egypt has
shown in doing so".
"Such a ceasefire can halt the tragic loss of life, stop the rockets on Israel - and open up the possibility of
a genuine change in Gaza," he said.
http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/76204000/gif/_76204959_20140711_gaza_border_crossings.gif
Map
The BBC's Orla Guerin in Cairo says Egypt has been accused of failing to play its usual role of mediator
between Israel and Hamas.
After a week of bloodshed, it has now at least produced a blueprint for a deal, she adds.
In 2012 Egypt's then-President Mohammed Morsi brokered a ceasefire between Hamas and Israel, using
the influence his Muslim Brotherhood held with the Palestinian group.
The current outbreak of violence followed the killing of three Israeli teenagers in June and the suspected
revenge killing of a Palestinian teenager in Jerusalem.
Israeli officials said on Monday that three arrested Israeli Jews had confessed to the murder of the
Palestinian, Mohammed Abu Khdair.
The three, whose names have not been released, have been remanded in custody.
The UN estimates that 77% of those killed in Gaza have been civilians.
However Israel disputes the figures, saying they are based on Hamas sources and are not objective.
A military spokesman told the BBC that Israel had aborted some attacks for fear of killing civilians.
Israel says it is targeting Hamas militants and "terror sites", including the homes of senior operatives.
In a statement, the Israeli Defense Forces (IDF) said: "We do not wish to harm civilians in Gaza, but
these civilians must know that remaining in close proximity to Hamas terrorists and infrastructures is
extremely unsafe."
Are you in Israel or Gaza? What are your hopes for a ceasefire? You can email your experiences to
haveyoursay@bbc.co.uk, using the subject line 'Israel Gaza'.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-28302539
Dorjezigzag
14th July 2014, 22:57
This is very interesting,
I almost feel a bit sorry for the caller though who was in way out of his depth with George
George Galloway, the British Politician and Broadcaster, talks to a Jewish caller on his radio program. The caller, besides being totally ignorant to the history of how Palestinian land was occupied by the Jewish forces, displays a level of insanity that has to be heard to be believed. Galloway repeatedly asks him how Britain had the power to grant another country's land to a particular race of people, and the caller fails to understand the reasoning behind the question, and repeats irrelevant and illogical responses like a broken record. Galloway then proceeds to school him over the historical accuracy of his statements, and leaves the caller searching for words, and eventually deciding to leave the conversation to avoid further embarrassment.
uUYfO6uG3sg
Cidersomerset
14th July 2014, 23:22
I almost feel a bit sorry for the caller though who was in way out of his depth with George
Quote George Galloway, the British Politician and Broadcaster, talks to a Jewish caller on his radio program. The caller, besides being totally ignorant to the history of how Palestinian land was occupied by the Jewish forces, displays a level of insanity that has to be heard to be believed. Galloway repeatedly asks him how Britain had the power to grant another country's land to a particular race of people, and the caller fails to understand the reasoning behind the question, and repeats irrelevant and illogical responses like a broken record. Galloway then proceeds to school him over the historical accuracy of his statements, and leaves the caller searching for words, and eventually deciding to leave the conversation to avoid further embarrassment.
That was very good , I was bracing my ears. but George calmly explained
the situation, I bet few not interested in the subject know Palestine was a
province of the ottoman empire for centuries and after Gen Allenby drove
the Ottoman/Imperial German army out of Palestine, Jordan, Syria, Iraq
Lebanon and Arabia ( See Lawrence of Arabia ) The British and French
divided up the provinces of the former Empire. Thus starting a hundred years of
conflictin that area. Fuelled by oil and other interests, still going on today.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
UjihOfwPrPI
Professor Ellie Kedoure London School of
Economics said the elites of the world
thought World Jewry one of the great
Occult powers of the world, and the French
and others were commited to Zionism.
They say it all quite calmly in this clip,
and many would not take any notice.
But what we have learn't from the
the alternate media in the last few
years it means a lot more to the 'Elites'
who ran the world then and now.......
Map of Ottoman Empire in 1914
http://www.nzhistory.net.nz/files/images/ottoman-empire-map-1000.jpg
You can see on the map this is where the majority of the Middle East
conflicts have taken place over the last century......
Rocky_Shorz
15th July 2014, 03:22
Hamas didn't agree...
the bombing continues, the leader of Hamas skipped off to Qatar for safety
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TEdijtwXgjI
Billy
15th July 2014, 11:26
The people of Israel awaken to the fact that they are used as pawns by their leaders and those who believe they in control as they attempt to steer towards Armageddon. The people of Israel say. enough is enough, NOT IN MY NAME.
A young Israeli speaks out and says, enough. NOT IN MY NAME. Then is brutally punished by police then arrested. I hope he is fine and his efforts do not go unnoticed and more are brave enough to follow his example. In my eyes he is a hero. Be well laddy.
I am not sure how to embed a video from FB. hope this works
<div id="fb-root"></div> <script>(function(d, s, id) { var js, fjs = d.getElementsByTagName(s)[0]; if (d.getElementById(id)) return; js = d.createElement(s); js.id = id; js.src = "//connect.facebook.net/en_US/all.js#xfbml=1"; fjs.parentNode.insertBefore(js, fjs); }(document, 'script', 'facebook-jssdk'));</script> <div class="fb-post" data-href="https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=10204209227297029" data-width="466"><div class="fb-xfbml-parse-ignore"><a href="https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=10204209227297029">Post</a> by <a href="https://www.facebook.com/moh.mumin">Muminur Rahman</a>.</div></div>
Try again.
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=10204209227297029&set=vb.1417549275&type=2&theater
peace.
panopticon
15th July 2014, 12:05
Article from the Palestine Solidarity Campaign website concerning the handing of an open letter to the BBC (see below the first article for a copy of the open letter) 'asking the BBC to improve their coverage of Palestine and Israel'.
###
Chomsky, Pilger and Loach call on BBC to reflect reality of Gaza’s occupation (http://www.palestinecampaign.org/chomsky-pilger-loach-call-bbc-reflect-reality-gazas-occupation/)
July 14, 2014
Noam Chomsky, John Pilger and Ken Loach are among more than 40,000 signatories who have signed an open letter to the BBC calling on its journalists to reflect the reality of Gaza’s occupation while reporting on Israel’s current assault.
MPs have also signed the letter which will be delivered to the BBC tomorrow (15th July) during a protest outside its Portland Place, London, headquarters.
The letter reminds the BBC that Israel is bombing a refugee population which is being held under occupation and siege. It is a population which has no army, navy or air force with which to defend itself against the fourth largest military power in the world.
Sarah Colborne, Director of Palestine Solidarity Campaign, which will be delivering the letter, said: “These are simple facts, none of which have been present in any of the BBC’s coverage so far of Israel’s assault on Gaza.
“However, they are vital facts and their absence results in BBC coverage which is unbalanced and lacking in context. Their omission allows the BBC to present Israel’s assault as a retaliation to Palestinian rockets rather than as an enforcement of its occupation and siege.
“Truly unbiased journalism would allow its consumers to consider both options instead of presenting them with just one viewpoint, as the BBC is doing.”
Protests took place outside BBC studios in Nottingham and Manchester on 10th July, and in Bristol on 11th July, demanding balanced reporting from BBC journalists.
Tuesday’s protest at Portland Place will call on the BBC to report the truth about Israel’s occupation and siege on Gaza, instead of concealing facts from its audiences. It will take place from 5.30pm to 7.30pm.
PSC’s letter to the BBC can be viewed here: http://www.palestinecampaign.org/sign-open-letter-bbc/ It will be addressed to the BBC’s Director General, Lord Hall.
The letter will remain on the website after Tuesday, allowing more people to sign. New signatures will be delivered to the BBC next week.
(Source (http://www.palestinecampaign.org/chomsky-pilger-loach-call-bbc-reflect-reality-gazas-occupation/))
###
The open letter from the Palestine Solidarity Campaign mentioned in the above article.
###
Sign our open letter to the BBC (http://www.palestinecampaign.org/sign-open-letter-bbc/)
July 9, 2014
Please sign this open letter to the BBC. Ask your MP to sign it. Ask your friends to sign. Palestine Solidarity Campaign will be presenting this letter, with your signatures on it, to the Director General of the BBC, Lord Hall.
Dear BBC
Once again Gaza is under massive aerial bombardment from Israeli warplanes and drones, and, once again, the BBC’s reporting of these assaults is entirely devoid of context or background.
We would like to remind the BBC that Gaza is under Israeli occupation and siege.
We would like to remind you that Israel is bombing a refugee population – Palestinians who were made refugees when they were forced from their land in1948 in order to create Israel.
We would like to remind you that Gaza has no army, air force, or navy, while Israel possess one of the strongest militaries in the world.
When you portray Israel’s shelling of a civilian population as a ‘response’ or ‘retaliation’ to rocket strikes from Gaza, we would like to remind you that these events flow from the displacement of the overwhelming majority of the Palestinian people from their homes and communities, with millions now corralled as refugees in the Gaza Strip. That initial injustice was compounded and continues with the ongoing occupation and siege.
When you portray the occupier as the victim, and the occupied as the aggressor, we would like to remind you that resistance to occupation is a right under international law. And we would like you to remember that Israel’s occupation, siege and collective punishment of Gaza is not.
And, finally, we would like to remind BBC journalists, when interviewing Israel’s spokespeople over the coming days, to ask the one question they have all failed to ask: “If Israel ends its occupation of Palestinian land, and allows the people of Palestine to live in freedom from Israeli domination, would that bring peace?”
(Source (http://www.palestinecampaign.org/sign-open-letter-bbc/))
###
One persons terrorist is another persons freedom fighter.
-- Pan
panopticon
15th July 2014, 12:31
The IDF is to resume its attack on Gaza (ground forces had already gathered (http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/.premium-1.604701) in preparation if required).
Hamas has fired 47 rockets since we suspended our strikes in Gaza at 9 am. As a result, we have resumed our operation against Hamas.
Source: Twitter @IDFSpokesperson (https://twitter.com/IDFSpokesperson/status/489019229241221124)
A Hamas spokesperson has been reported as saying that Hamas knew nothing about the Egyptian cease fire negotiations other than what was reported in the media. They did not agree to the terms of the cease fire because they were not party to the negotiations of the cease fire (source (http://www.maannews.net/eng/ViewDetails.aspx?ID=713295)).
Thought it was all a bit strange. The Israeli Security Cabinet decided to agree to the terms of the cease-fire just before its 9 am start. Then Ministers are quoted as saying that 'If Hamas continues to fire rockets after the ceasefire, Israel will retaliate forcefully' and that the 'Ceasefire decision gives Israel broad international legitimacy to continue the operation if Hamas doesn't stop shooting' (source (https://twitter.com/BarakRavid)).
-- Pan
Addendum:
So after a bit of an investigate it appears that a cease fire offer was made to Hamas #2 (Moussa Abu Marzouk (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mousa_Mohammed_Abu_Marzook)) by Egyptian Intelligence in Cairo on Saturday (local Egypt time [source (http://www.timesofisrael.com/hamas-rejects-egyptian-proposal-to-hold-fire/)]). That offer was refused as there was no mention within it of the direction later talks would take (eg sanction restrictions, border crossing [source (http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-07-15/israel-resumes-air-strikes-on-gaza/5599714)]). I've come across no indication that further talks were brokered. It appears from what I've read that Hamas were not party to the negotiations around the proposed cease fire (according to Sami Abu Zuhri (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sami_Abu_Zuhri) at least [source (http://www.maannews.net/eng/ViewDetails.aspx?ID=713295)]) and that the negotiations were between Egypt and Israel with the decision being handed to Hamas to agree to. It appears that people in Gaza were only aware of the proposed cease fire because of media reports as there had been no agreement entered into.
panopticon
15th July 2014, 14:33
I was just off when I came across an article from the NY Times about the image used in this threads OP.
The article can be read here:
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/07/15/world/middleeast/israelis-watch-bombs-drop-on-gaza-from-front-row-seats.html
In it the photographer/reporter expresses his surprise at the response the photo has garnered:
As his image reverberated around the social network, where it was shared more than 10,000 times, the reporter was surprised by the response. It was, he said in a telephone interview from Israel, “nothing new.” Similar scenes, of Israeli spectators gathered on the high ground above Gaza to view the destruction below, were documented in a Times of London article and a video report from Denmark’s TV2 during Operation Cast Lead in 2009.
Explaining that he has also previously witnessed Palestinians cheering news of bombings that killed Israelis, Mr. Sørensen said that, in a war, “this is what happens.” Civilians and fighters on both sides, he said, “go through a process of dehumanizing the enemy.”
...
Mr. Sørensen, who stressed that he has “a complete understanding of what the people of Sderot have been going through for 14 years,” attributed the particularly vitriolic response to his Twitter report to the climate in Israel since three young religious students were kidnapped and murdered in the occupied West Bank last month. The journalist called the “extreme incitement to violence from very right-wing Israeli groups unprecedented” in the many years he has been reporting from the region.
The Israeli blogger David Sheen reported that a far-right rally in Jerusalem on Monday was marked by calls to kill Arabs and send Jews opposed to the bombardment to Gaza.
The article is quite good and even manages to include a video from 2008 of then senator Obama standing in front of spent rocket casings and mentions his receiving an 'I Love Sderot' t-shirt from the towns residents.
http://www.bagnewsnotes.com/files/.a/6a00d8341cc90353ef010536a45a0b970c-pi.jpg
-- Pan
Cidersomerset
15th July 2014, 18:20
I just watched this doc , gives you more of a feel of how todays crisis stems
back a century to the imperial age. Not to long , but gives you more of a picture
than the smaller vid above. At the end it speculates how the Arab provinces
should have been divided up and the lady academic. ( it does not give her name)
in this segment.
It sounds very much like ISIS.......The Elites at work again ?
777zvUQPqeU
http://cofda.files.wordpress.com/2014/06/new-levant.jpg?
Yesterday, June 29, 2014, ISIS announced that the Islamic caliphate is a reality,
with ISIS chief Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi “the Caliph” and “leader for Muslims
everywhere.” (Incredibly, the United States once had him in custody at a detention
facility in Iraq, the now-closed Camp Bucca near Umm Qasr, but the Obama
administration let him go in 2009.)
http://cofda.wordpress.com/2014/06/30/isis-announces-islamic-caliphate-is-a-reality/
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Lots of events change or can be altered in the vacuum of world events. Like at the
end of WW1 the dividing up of the Ottoman empire. After WW2 the break up of
the French and British mandates in the area and the recreation of Israel. Since
then there has been constant wars between one state or another.
Is this being set up for the battle of Armageddon on the plains of Meggido in
Palestine ? There has been talk of rebuilding the Temple of Solomon.
THIRD TEMPLE HAS BEGUN.. NOW BEING BUILT !
e46_a00Y0u4
IF this Caliphate did come about ,Israel would obviously be at threat
and a Nuclear event which could trigger WW3 is very possible if these
sanarios start to take place. It should not be difficult to stop because Russia,
Iran and China back Syria and America and NATO are still technically
backing the Bagdad regime.
But maybe the real elites are letting this happen to full fill the prophecies
of the Book of Revelations......Just speculating....
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Violet
15th July 2014, 21:31
Billy, we need to know who that young man is so we can follow it up.
Observer1964
15th July 2014, 22:42
PMwyuEk9u_I
Tesseract
16th July 2014, 02:29
Sick of Mark Regev?
You can follow Al Qassam Brigades on Twitter: @qassamfeed
Tesseract
16th July 2014, 03:35
About that ceasefire:
http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/1.605363
Palestinian factions in the Gaza Strip were also surprised to learn of the Egyptian cease-fire proposal, especially Hamas, which still views itself as the sovereign in Gaza.
All the factions knew that talks about a cease-fire were taking place, but they had expected Egyptian intelligence to fully coordinate any serious proposal with them, as had been the case in the past. They did not expect to hear about it from the media – nor did they expect that Egypt would coordinate with Israel but not with them.
panopticon
16th July 2014, 03:55
About that ceasefire:
http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/1.605363
Palestinian factions in the Gaza Strip were also surprised to learn of the Egyptian cease-fire proposal, especially Hamas, which still views itself as the sovereign in Gaza.
All the factions knew that talks about a cease-fire were taking place, but they had expected Egyptian intelligence to fully coordinate any serious proposal with them, as had been the case in the past. They did not expect to hear about it from the media – nor did they expect that Egypt would coordinate with Israel but not with them.
I agree Tesseract. This was exactly what I was saying yesterday. There was no agreement for Hamas to break.
In the Ravid article you linked too he presents a very interesting view of the internal machinations of the Security Cabinet with Bibi leading the charge and everyone else left agreeing. The comment from one Minister that 'a few hours later, we discovered we’d made a cease-fire agreement with ourselves' really illustrates this well. Tack onto that rising star in Bibi's own party (Lukid) Danny Danon (who is even further to the right (http://www.dannydanon.com/eng/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=14&Itemid=28)) got sacked today as deputy defense minister and there's a bit of an internal power play in Lukid involved in all this as well. Bibi's getting to retirement age and Danon is part of the new crop from the political class in Lukid readying to take control (articles on this here (http://www.timesofisrael.com/netanyahu-fires-danny-danon-over-criticism-of-gaza-war/) and here (http://www.jta.org/2014/07/15/news-opinion/israel-middle-east/whats-behind-bibis-firing-of-danny-danon-1)).
BTW thank you for the link to the Al Qassam Brigades feed as I had been looking for one since their other accounts were suspended. Maybe warn others though that it has graphic images in it of dead children and adults. These images may disturb persons not acquainted with the horror of reality in a battle zone.
Yes, I am sick of Mark Regev. The new head of the "IDF spokesperson (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IDF_Spokesperson%27s_Unit)" military unit is Brigadier General Moti Almoz (source 1 (http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/the-idf-s-new-appointments-a-mix-of-politics-and-gambling-1.518261), source 2 (http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4440437,00.html)). Evidently he doesn't like being in the media...
-- Pan
panopticon
16th July 2014, 04:39
The text of the ceasefire proposal between Egypt & Israel as reported by Jpost.
###
Owing to Egypt’s historical responsibility, and its belief in the importance of achieving peace in the region, protecting the lives of innocents, and ending the bloodshed -- Egypt calls upon Israel and all of the Palestinian factions to enact an immediate ceasefire, due to the fact that escalation and mutual violence, and the victims that will result, will not be in the interest of either party; as such, during the period of the ceasefire, both sides shall abide by the following:
a. Israel shall cease all hostilities against the Gaza Strip via land, sea, and air, and shall commit to refrain from conducting any ground raids against Gaza and targeting civilians.
b. All Palestinian factions in Gaza shall cease all hostilities from the Gaza Strip against Israel via land, sea, air, and underground, and shall commit to refrain from firing all types of rockets, and from attacks on the borders or targeting civilians.
c. Crossings shall be opened and the passage of persons and goods through border crossings shall be facilitated once the security situation becomes stable on the ground.
d. Other issues, including security issues shall be discussed with the two sides.
Method of implementation of the initiative:
a. It has been decided to initiate implementation of the de-escalation agreements at 9:00 a.m. on July 15th, 2014, pending the implementation of a full ceasefire within twelve hours of the announcement of the Egyptian initiative and its unconditional acceptance by both sides.
b. High-level delegations from both the Israeli government and the Palestinian factions shall be hosted in Cairo within 48 hours of the initiation of the initiative’s implementation, in order to conclude talks for the consolidation of the ceasefire and resume confidence-building measures between the two sides; talks shall be held with each of the two sides separately (in accordance with the agreements for the consolidation of de-escalation in Cairo in 2012).
c. Both sides shall commit to refrain from taking any actions aimed at undermining the implementation of the agreements; Egypt shall receive guarantees from both sides of their commitment to implementing what has been agreed upon, and shall follow up on its implementation and engage with either side in the case of any action that impinges on its stability.
Source (http://www.jpost.com/Operation-Protective-Edge/Full-text-of-Egyptian-proposal-for-a-ceasefire-362841)
###
The main problem that I've read is reported as being this:
c. Crossings shall be opened and the passage of persons and goods through border crossings shall be facilitated once the security situation becomes stable on the ground.
This is reported as the same sort of language that was in the last ceasefire agreement which led to no changes in border crossings or passage of goods/people because Israel did not define, nor agree, what a stable security situation looks like.
-- Pan
panopticon
16th July 2014, 05:11
Jon Stewart on the attack by Israel on Gaza:
40R3Yb7DTzo
panopticon
16th July 2014, 08:34
I get confused sometimes by people. I can understand their motivation most of the time but sometimes I just don't understand why they act on that motivation.
I came across this image in my virtual wanderings and really just don't get what possessed that fella, ironically on the left, to leave the house with that shirt on:
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Bsm1dOKIYAAbZpg.jpg
Source (https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Bsm1dOKIYAAbZpg.jpg)
Now it just looks at first glance to be the usual right wing anti-socialist rubbish that I have come to expect however it actually is a logo promoted by neo-Nazi online hate groups (like "Stormfront") and widely used by "pro-white" groups. I will not back link to any of them because I refuse to give them and their ilk traffic from any post I make at Avalon.
Anyway, the "Good Night Left Side" is only used by neo-Nazi's as it is in reaction to the earlier "Good Night White Pride" used by anti-facist (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-fascism) groups. The first image below is similar to those credited with inspiring the symbolism in the second (it may well be the image that inspired the popular "Good Night White Pride" slogan).
http://projectavalon.net/forum4/attachment.php?attachmentid=26360&d=1405498676
http://projectavalon.net/forum4/attachment.php?attachmentid=26361&d=1405498705
So, what possesses a young presumably Jewish male to be out and about allegedly disrupting a pro-Gaza rally in Tel-Aviv wearing a pro-Nazi t-shirt? For that matter what possesses him to be out and about in Tel-Aviv at all with that t-shirt on?
For an idea of what he'd have to be listening to if it's "because of the music man":
jbOUWojNiEg
Might as well be wearing a shirt with this on:
http://cs406124.vk.me/v406124391/5a72/TwUBhSr9mc0.jpg
If anyone has more information in relation to the first image used in this post (in particular its location as it is reportedly from Tel-Aviv (https://twitter.com/intifada/status/489121548314615808/photo/1) but I can not confirm it) then I would love to hear about it.
-- Pan
panopticon
16th July 2014, 13:00
Interesting article about Tony Blair organising el-Sisi & Bibi Gazan ceasefire phone call.
Most interesting part:
Senior Israeli officials and Western diplomats said the reason the Egyptian cease-fire initiative was so short-lived is that it was prepared hastily and was not coordinated with all the relevant parties, particularly Hamas.
If Hamas wasn't included in negotiations then how can anyone have the gall to call them "negotiations"?
:tsk:
###
Secret call between Netanyahu, al-Sissi led to abortive cease-fire (http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/.premium-1.605499)
By Barak Ravid. July 16, 2014
http://www.haaretz.com/polopoly_fs/1.605368.1405512267!/image/3887837422.jpg_gen/derivatives/landscape_640/3887837422.jpg
Egyptian President Abdel-Fattah al-Sissi, right, discussing the Gaza-Israel conflict with Tony Blair, Quartet rep to the Middle East, on July 12. Photo by Reuters
Haaretz has learned that the PM spoke to the Egyptian president in a phone call prompted by Quartet envoy Tony Blair.
Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu spoke to Egyptian President Abdel-Fattah al-Sissi on Saturday in a telephone call that has been kept secret until now, after Quartet special envoy Tony Blair urged the Egyptian leader to become more actively involved in promoting a cease-fire, diplomatic sources told Haaretz.
Israel agreed to a cease-fire Tuesday morning and briefly halted its air strikes on Gaza. Hamas did not accept the terms of the truce, however, and continued firing rockets. Several hours later, Israel resumed its attacks as well.
The Saturday conversation was the first between Netanyahu and al-Sissi since Israel's Operation Protective Edge began July 8, and only the second since al-Sissi took office in June.
The diplomatic sources said Blair was still in the region Wednesday, continuing to push for a cease-fire. Blair is due to meet with al-Sissi again Wednesday to continue looking into ways to end the fighting.
Diplomatic efforts are also underway to pressure Hamas to agree to the cease-fire proposal.
U.S. Secretary of State John Kerry and German Foreign Minister Frank-Walter Steinmeier, who met with Netanyahu on Tuesday in Tel Aviv, spoke by telephone over the past 24 hours with the foreign ministers of Egypt, Qatar and Turkey, asking them to increase the pressure on Hamas.
Senior Israeli officials and Western diplomats said the reason the Egyptian cease-fire initiative was so short-lived is that it was prepared hastily and was not coordinated with all the relevant parties, particularly Hamas.
Blair held talks with Netanyahu as well as al-Sissi in the early stages of the military campaign, in a bid to move forward with a cease-fire. He met with al-Sissi in Cairo on Saturday after coordinating his efforts with Kerry, the sources said. They spoke on condition of anonymity because of the sensitivity of the issue.
The sources said Blair urged al-Sissi to push for an end to hostilities to prevent further harm to civilians in the Gaza Strip.
After the meeting, al-Sissi spoke for the first time about the need to work toward a truce based on the cease-plan from the last flare-up between Israel and Gaza, in November 2012. He said Egypt would hold talks on the subject with Israel and Hamas.
From Cairo, Blair traveled to Israel to meet with Netanyahu early Saturday evening, and told him al-Sissi was willing to engage in serious mediation efforts. Blair also updated Kerry on the situation, the sources said.
Blair discovered Saturday that Netanyahu and al-Sissi had not been in contact, and secured their agreement to speak by phone.
Both countries kept mum about the conversation, refraining from informing the press the two leaders had been in touch. The Prime Minister's Bureau did not immediately respond to a request to confirm the details described by the diplomatic officials.
In his first conversation with al-Sissi last month, Netanyahu congratulated him on winning the Egyptian presidential election. The Prime Minister’s Bureau said at the time that Netanyahu said Israel was committed to its peace treaty with Egypt and saw bilateral ties as being of strategic importance.
Source (http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/.premium-1.605499)
panopticon
16th July 2014, 14:19
Here is the text to the 2012 ceasefire agreement between Israel & Hamas as negotiated by Egypt.
As I said in my post above the wording is similarly vague and resulted in limited change occurring in cross-border movement of goods/services and persons.
2012
Following is the verbatim English text of the ceasefire agreement between Israel and the Palestinians in Gaza that was reached on Wednesday through Egyptian mediation. The text was distributed by the office of the Egyptian president.
1. Agreement of Understanding For a Ceasefire in the Gaza Strip
A. Israel should stop all hostilities in the Gaza Strip land, sea and air including incursions and targeting of individuals.
B. All Palestinian factions shall stop all hostilities from the Gaza Strip against Israel including rocket attacks and all attacks along the border.
C. Opening the crossings and facilitating the movements of people and transfer of goods and refraining from restricting residents' free movements and targeting residents in border areas and procedures of implementation shall be dealt with after 24 hours from the start of the ceasefire.
D. Other matters as may be requested shall be addressed.
2. Implementation mechanisms:
A. Setting up the zero hour for the ceasefire understanding to enter into effect.
B. Egypt shall receive assurances from each party that the party commits to what was agreed upon.
C. Each party shall commit itself not to perform any acts that would breach this understanding. In case of any observations Egypt as the sponsor of this understanding shall be informed to follow up.
Source (http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:nCdAytQbTGkJ:www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/text-cease-fire-agreement-between-israel-and-hamas.premium-1.479653+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us)
Now let's compare it to the latest (2014) agreement between Israel & Egypt (that managed to forget that Hamas was involved)...
2014
Owing to Egypt’s historical responsibility, and its belief in the importance of achieving peace in the region, protecting the lives of innocents, and ending the bloodshed -- Egypt calls upon Israel and all of the Palestinian factions to enact an immediate ceasefire, due to the fact that escalation and mutual violence, and the victims that will result, will not be in the interest of either party; as such, during the period of the ceasefire, both sides shall abide by the following:
A. Israel shall cease all hostilities against the Gaza Strip via land, sea, and air, and shall commit to refrain from conducting any ground raids against Gaza and targeting civilians.
B. All Palestinian factions in Gaza shall cease all hostilities from the Gaza Strip against Israel via land, sea, air, and underground, and shall commit to refrain from firing all types of rockets, and from attacks on the borders or targeting civilians.
C. Crossings shall be opened and the passage of persons and goods through border crossings shall be facilitated once the security situation becomes stable on the ground.
D. Other issues, including security issues shall be discussed with the two sides.
Method of implementation of the initiative:
A. It has been decided to initiate implementation of the de-escalation agreements at 9:00 a.m. on July 15th, 2014, pending the implementation of a full ceasefire within twelve hours of the announcement of the Egyptian initiative and its unconditional acceptance by both sides.
B. High-level delegations from both the Israeli government and the Palestinian factions shall be hosted in Cairo within 48 hours of the initiation of the initiative’s implementation, in order to conclude talks for the consolidation of the ceasefire and resume confidence-building measures between the two sides; talks shall be held with each of the two sides separately (in accordance with the agreements for the consolidation of de-escalation in Cairo in 2012).
C. Both sides shall commit to refrain from taking any actions aimed at undermining the implementation of the agreements; Egypt shall receive guarantees from both sides of their commitment to implementing what has been agreed upon, and shall follow up on its implementation and engage with either side in the case of any action that impinges on its stability.
Source (http://www.jpost.com/Operation-Protective-Edge/Full-text-of-Egyptian-proposal-for-a-ceasefire-362841)
So, doesn't seem to be a great deal of difference between the two ceasefire agreements really. Just Hamas didn't actually agree to the second one, probably because they had more experience dealing with ceasefire agreement negotiations...
Interesting thing I came across in my wanderings was that some of the other factions in Gaza (ie non-Hamas) didn't know about the ceasefire "agreement" until they heard about the Israeli Security Cabinet agreeing to it in the media. This is where it becomes very unclear. Some reports indicate that these groups hurriedly tried to confirm what was going on. Other reports that they simply stopped firing rockets until they started seeing rockets being fired from Gaza. All reports I read indicated that the ceasefire agreement had not been negotiated meaningfully with anyone other than Egypt & Israel.
-- Pan
MorningFox
16th July 2014, 15:11
So, what possesses a young presumably Jewish male to be out and about allegedly disrupting a pro-Gaza rally in Tel-Aviv wearing a pro-Nazi t-shirt? For that matter what possesses him to be out and about in Tel-Aviv at all with that t-shirt on?
You're giving him credit for not being utterly thick and ignorant.
panopticon
16th July 2014, 16:04
Now a little bit of back ground for those not familiar with the last few months...
The present attack on Gaza comes on the heels of some interesting developments in Palestinian politics. Israel was fairly well ignored when Hamas & Fatah signed a reconcilliation agreement on 23rd April 2014 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_Fatah%E2%80%93Hamas_Gaza_Agreement). This agreement was to see a unity government formed and presidential and parliamentary elections held later this year. As a result of this Bibi & co walked away from the peace negotiation table. Next on 2nd June Abbas swore in an interim government (http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-27660218) (as per the Hamas-Fatah agreement).
"Today, with the formation of a national consensus government, we announce the end of a Palestinian division that has greatly damaged our national case," said President Abbas.
As the new administration took office, the Hamas government in Gaza resigned.
Hamas's outgoing Prime Minister Ismail Haniya welcomed the new cabinet as "a government of one people and one political system".
Three Gaza-based members of the new government were denied permission by Israel to cross into the West Bank for the ceremony.
Israel tightly controls who exits Gaza into its territory as part of what it says are security measures to prevent attacks.
Israel said it would cease all but security co-ordination with the Palestinians if the government was formed.
Source (http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-27660218)
So, from the 2nd of June there is a united Palestinian Government representing all persons of the Occupied Palestinian Territories (ie. in the West Bank (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/West_Bank) and Gaza Strip). Less than 2 weeks after this historic moment 3 Israeli-Jewish youths are kidnapped by persons unknown. An audio recording of part of their emergency service phone call can be heard online. The number of Palestinians detained over the kidnapping vary between the Israeli figure of 381 and the Palestinian figure of 566. The bodies of the three Israeli-Jewish youths were found just over two weeks after their emergency phone call was initially ignored (http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/.premium-1.602281). The reprisal killing of an Israeli-Arab youth (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Mohammed_Abu_Khdeir) occurred the day after the Israeli-Jewish youths funerals and one month to the day after the formation of the Palestinian Unity Government.
So, please insert your favourite conspiracy theory here because I've got no idea who organised the slaughter of the Israeli-Jewish youth. Any group with half a brain would know where this would likely lead. Maybe it was the Israeli Security Agency, they're not above a bit of "wet work", maybe someone else (a corporate and/or nation-state is a possibility and there are many other favourites in this box of worms) trying to destabilise the fledgeling Fatah-Hamas administration. Look at it realistically. The slaughter of 3 young men who were settlers and going to an orthodox Jewish high school in the occupied territories was a stress point that was always going to bring us to the point we are today if there was not careful intervention by the Israeli administration. There wasn't.
There are lots of ways to view this particular spaghetti puzzle and there are so many groups involved that I doubt we will ever actually know the ins and outs. What we can do is examine the external detail and try to answer some of the who, what, when, where, why & how questions so later we can look back with hind sight when similar events occur (as they always do when they are as successful as this one has been).
That statement by Haniya that the new Palestinian cabinet was "a government of one people and one political system" really must have annoyed someone. One thing I can't figure out is what advantage this is to Hamas. It doesn't help them in any way manner or form and just backs them into a corner where they have to back resistance fighters because they are a resistance movement fighting oppressors. That is what gives them legitimacy in the eyes of the oppressed they represent. That legitimacy is being threatened by this action and I see no advantage to them. Egypt and Israel, now that's another story. Look to Gaza Marine (http://www.naturalgaseurope.com/gaza-marine-offshore-field) for just one of many reasons that could be behind the attack.
Anyway, I hope this has been useful to someone and if there have been any errors or omissions please say so I can fix it (and my own failing memory).
-- Pan
panopticon
16th July 2014, 16:36
We need to always remember the human tragedies. These are not numbers but somebodies son, daughter, brother, sister, mother, father, friend, lover, wife, husband.
While I was doing the above long post 4 children playing football on the beach @ a Gaza Marina were killed by shells fired from an Israeli Naval Vessel.
It is being reported that they were cousins aged between 9 and 110. Evidently it happened near a hotel that has international press staying in and the children were treated by members of the press for their injuries however none could be saved.
The funeral for these children is already being held:
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BsrRXu0CcAAlSaT.jpg
Israel Defence Force says it will investigate.
-- Pan
Update:
As is obvious in the following post some of the details were out in the above. There were 7 children and 1 adult. The first blast killed one child. It is then alleged by a reporter that the Israeli Navy Vessel re-aimed and fired a second shell which killed 3 more of the fleeing children. The remaining 3 children and 1 adult made it to safety though were lucky to survive a 3rd shell as they climbed over a wall separating the beach and an area nearer to the hotel. Anyone interested in the surviving childrens condition can follow the reports from Peter Beaumont (here (https://twitter.com/petersbeaumont)) who assisted with first aid on the children and is at the hospital.
panopticon
16th July 2014, 16:56
Media report on the death of 4 children as witnessed by foreign media from their hotel balcony.
I haven't included all the images, follow the link to the story for them.
###
Witness to a shelling: first-hand account of deadly strike on Gaza port (http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jul/16/witness-gaza-shelling-first-hand-account)
Peter Beaumont in Gaza
theguardian.com, Thursday 17 July 2014
http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Guardian/Pix/pictures/2014/7/16/1405521160597/Smoke-billows-from-a-beac-009.jpg
Smoke billows from a beach shack following the in Gaza City which killed four children.
Photograph: Thomas Coex/AFP/Getty Images
There is a deafening explosion, then a second. Four children are dead. Four survivors reach the safety of our hotel.
The retaining wall of Gaza's harbour sticks out into the Mediterranean about 100 metres from the terrace of al-Deira hotel, base to many of the journalists covering the conflict in Gaza. The first of the artillery shells came in a little after 4pm on Wednesday as I was writing on the hotel's terrace.
There is a deafening explosion as it hits a structure on the pier, a place we have seen hit before, where fishermen usually store their nets. Behind the smoke, I see four figures running, silhouettes whose legs are pumping raggedly. They clear the smoke. From their size it is clear they are a man and three young boys.
Where the harbour wall ends and the beach starts, there are a few brightly coloured tents and chairs for beach users in more peaceful times. The four figures jump on to the beach and begin running towards us and the safety of the hotel.
Only afterwards do we discover there are four others who are dead, all children, lying on the wall. I am shown a picture of one of the dead boys, his skin scorched and bruised. Their names are released later: Ahed Bakr, aged 10; Zakaria, 10; and two other boys from the Bakr family, both named Mohammad, aged 11 and nine.
The second shell catches the survivors as they reach the brightly coloured tents. As it explodes, my colleagues, now standing by the terrace wall, shout at unseen Israeli gunners who can't hear them: "They are only children."
The man makes it to the terrace first, scrambling up a steep sandy bank. A skinny man in his 30s, he groans and holds up a T-shirt already staining red with blood where he has been hit in the stomach. He faints, and as he grows pale and limp he is carried to a taxi waved down in the street.
The children are brought up next. Pulling up the T-shirt of the first boy, who looks about eight years old, we find a shrapnel hole, small and round as a pencil head, where he has been hit in the chest over the second rib. Another boy, a brother or cousin, who is uninjured, slumps by the wall of the terrace, weeping by his side.
The boy cries in pain as we clean and dress the wound, wrapping a field dressing around his chest, pressing to staunch the bleeding. He winces in pain, and he is clearly embarrassed too as a colleague checks his shorts to look for unseen femoral bleeding.
A waiter grabs a table cloth to use as a stretcher, but a photographer takes the boy in his arms to carry him to the ambulance that has arrived.
Other colleagues work on the final surviving casualty, an older boy. His arms are scuffed, and a bandage around his head barely staunches a head wound. He too is quickly carried to the ambulance.
In less than 10 minutes it is over. Even the smoke on the pier has died away, save for a last few drifting wisps.
Source (http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jul/16/witness-gaza-shelling-first-hand-account)
Dorjezigzag
16th July 2014, 17:21
https://fbcdn-sphotos-a-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xpa1/v/t1.0-9/10501878_754197061290225_4235956710199758616_n.jpg?oh=fca36cff72673aedb74d51605638331d&oe=543676C4&__gda__=1413500796_00297a757de3b1c181d08728624844c9
https://fbcdn-sphotos-d-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xpa1/t31.0-8/s960x960/10497431_753821807994417_186781162853800001_o.jpg
https://scontent-b-sea.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpf1/t31.0-8/s960x960/10517250_753821687994429_3728092704180464887_o.jpg
https://scontent-a-sea.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpa1/t1.0-9/10418330_753804447996153_936033102740127783_n.jpg
panopticon
16th July 2014, 18:38
Interesting article from J.J. Goldberg in The Jewish Daily Forward on his thinking of how the entire Gaza situation has gotten away from Bibi after his cover-up of the death of the 3 Israeli-Jewish youths for weeks.
###
How Politics and Lies Triggered an Unintended War in Gaza (http://forward.com/articles/201764/how-politics-and-lies-triggered-an-unintended-war/?p=all)
By J.J. Goldberg. July 10th 2014.
http://forward.com/image/2/630/0/5//assets/images/articles/w.gazajjgoldberg-070914.jpg.jpg
Kidnap, Crackdown, Mutual Missteps and a Hail of Rockets
In the flood of angry words that poured out of Israel and Gaza during a week of spiraling violence, few statements were more blunt, or more telling, than this throwaway line by the chief spokesman of the Israeli military, Brigadier General Moti Almoz, speaking July 8 on Army Radio’s morning show: “We have been instructed by the political echelon to hit Hamas hard.”
That’s unusual language for a military mouthpiece. Typically they spout lines like “We will take all necessary actions” or “The state of Israel will defend its citizens.” You don’t expect to hear: “This is the politicians’ idea. They’re making us do it.”
Admittedly, demurrals on government policy by Israel’s top defense brass, once virtually unthinkable, have become almost routine in the Netanyahu era. Usually, though, there’s some measure of subtlety or discretion. This particular interview was different. Where most disagreements involve policies that might eventually lead to some future unnecessary war, this one was about an unnecessary war they were now stumbling into.
Spokesmen don’t speak for themselves. Almoz was expressing a frustration that was building in the army command for nearly a month, since the June 12 kidnapping of three Israeli yeshiva boys. The crime set off a chain of events in which Israel gradually lost control of the situation, finally ending up on the brink of a war that nobody wanted — not the army, not the government, not even the enemy, Hamas.
The frustration had numerous causes. Once the boys’ disappearance was known, troops began a massive, 18-day search-and-rescue operation, entering thousands of homes, arresting and interrogating hundreds of individuals, racing against the clock. Only on July 1, after the boys’ bodies were found, did the truth come out: The government had known almost from the beginning that the boys were dead. It maintained the fiction that it hoped to find them alive as a pretext to dismantle Hamas’ West Bank operations.
The initial evidence was the recording of victim Gilad Shaer’s desperate cellphone call to Moked 100, Israel’s 911. When the tape reached the security services the next morning — neglected for hours by Moked 100 staff — the teen was heard whispering “They’ve kidnapped me” (“hatfu oti”) followed by shouts of “Heads down,” then gunfire, two groans, more shots, then singing in Arabic. That evening searchers found the kidnappers’ abandoned, torched Hyundai, with eight bullet holes and the boys’ DNA. There was no doubt.
Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu immediately placed a gag order on the deaths. Journalists who heard rumors were told the Shin Bet wanted the gag order to aid the search. For public consumption, the official word was that Israel was “acting on the assumption that they’re alive.” It was, simply put, a lie.
Moti Almoz, as army spokesman, was in charge of repeating the lie. True, others backed him up, including Defense Minister Moshe Yaalon. But when the truth came out on July 1, Almoz bore the brunt of public derision. Critics said his credibility was shot. He’d only been spokesman since October, after a long career as a blunt-talking field commander with no media experience. Others felt professional frustration. His was personal.
Nor was that the only fib. It was clear from the beginning that the kidnappers weren’t acting on orders from Hamas leadership in Gaza or Damascus. Hamas’ Hebron branch — more a crime family than a clandestine organization — had a history of acting without the leaders’ knowledge, sometimes against their interests. Yet Netanyahu repeatedly insisted Hamas was responsible for the crime and would pay for it.
This put him in a ticklish position. His rhetoric raised expectations that after demolishing Hamas in the West Bank he would proceed to Gaza. Hamas in Gaza began preparing for it. The Israeli right — settler leaders, hardliners in his own party — began demanding it.
But Netanyahu had no such intention. The last attack on Gaza, the eight-day Operation Pillar of Defense in November 2012, targeted Hamas leaders and taught a sobering lesson. Hamas hadn’t fired a single rocket since, and had largely suppressed fire by smaller jihadi groups. Rocket firings, averaging 240 per month in 2007, dropped to five per month in 2013. Neither side had any desire to end the détente. Besides, whatever might replace Hamas in Gaza could only be worse.
The kidnapping and crackdown upset the balance. In Israel, grief and anger over the boys’ disappearance grew steadily as the fabricated mystery stretched into a second and third week. Rallies and prayer meetings were held across the country and in Jewish communities around the world. The mothers were constantly on television. One addressed the United Nations in Geneva to plead for her son’s return. Jews everywhere were in anguish over the unceasing threat of barbaric Arab terror plaguing Israel.
This, too, was misleading. The last seven years have been the most tranquil in Israel’s history. Terror attacks are a fraction of the level during the nightmare intifada years — just six deaths in all of 2013. But few notice. The staged agony of the kidnap search created, probably unintentionally, what amounts to a mass, worldwide attack of post-traumatic stress flashback.
When the bodies were finally found, Israelis’ anger exploded into calls for revenge, street riots and, finally, murder.
Amid the rising tension, cabinet meetings in Jerusalem turned into shouting matches. Ministers on the right demanded the army reoccupy Gaza and destroy Hamas. Netanyahu replied, backed by the army and liberal ministers, that the response must be measured and careful. It was an unaccustomed and plainly uncomfortable role for him. He was caught between his pragmatic and ideological impulses.
In Gaza, leaders went underground. Rocket enforcement squads stopped functioning and jihadi rocket firing spiked. Terror squads began preparing to counterattack Israel through tunnels. One tunnel exploded on June 19 in an apparent work accident, killing five Hamas gunmen, convincing some in Gaza that the Israeli assault had begun while reinforcing Israeli fears that Hamas was plotting terror all along.
On June 29, an Israeli air attack on a rocket squad killed a Hamas operative. Hamas protested. The next day it unleashed a rocket barrage, its first since 2012. The cease-fire was over. Israel was forced to retaliate for the rockets with air raids. Hamas retaliated for the raids with more rockets. And so on. Finally Israel began calling up reserves on July 8 and preparing for what, as Moti Almoz told Army Radio, “the political echelon instructed.”
Later that morning, Israel’s internal security minister Yitzhak Aharonovitch told reporters that the “political echelon has given the army a free hand.” Almoz returned to Army Radio that afternoon and confirmed that the army had “received an absolutely free hand” to act.
And how far, the interviewer asked, will the army go? “To the extent that it’s up to the army,” Almoz said, “the army is determined to restore quiet.” Will simply restoring quiet be enough? “That’s not up to us,” he said. The army will continue the operation as long as it’s told.
The operation’s army code-name, incidentally, is “Protective Edge” in English, but the original Hebrew is more revealing: Tzuk Eitan, or “solid cliff.” That, the army seems to feel, is where Israel is headed.
Source (http://forward.com/articles/201764/how-politics-and-lies-triggered-an-unintended-war/?p=all)
Billy
16th July 2014, 19:05
Well said, Brave Israeli Soldier telling the brutality of Zionism Jews.
mkwYbreneUE
panopticon
16th July 2014, 20:39
Mark Regev, Bibi's mouthpiece, gets a bit of a kick in this Channel 4 interview with Jon Snow:
The Israeli military does not target civilians (http://www.channel4.com/news/the-israeli-military-does-not-target-civilians-video)
-- Pan
panopticon
17th July 2014, 06:17
Article from Haaretz explaining that Lieberman has told the Foreign Minister of Norway that the failure of the ceasefire talks was not due to Egyptian incompetence but rather a plan by Turkey & Qatar to be the ones who handle negotiations. Lieberman also says that Hamas lied about not receiving the ceasefire notification from Egypt.
That is actually false as I've said previously in this thread that Hamas did receive a copy of the notification (I call it a notification because it is obvious to everyone who is following this that there was no attempt at negotiation made by Egypt).
Hamas rejected the notification as it was not acceptable and was a continuation of what they view as oppressive border control measures (which were supposed to end under the 2012 agreement), did not involve the release of the persons detained by Israel during the "investigation" into the 3 Israel-Jewish youths and would have allowed for continued attempts by Israel to try and destroy the newly formed Palestinian Unity Government (officially created on the 2nd of June between Hamas and Fatah).
There's more reasons that the notification was rejected but I reckon the above few give an idea as to what the Egyptian ceasefire notification was actually about.
###
FM: Turkey, Qatar sabotaged Cairo’s cease-fire proposal (http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/.premium-1.605586)
By Barak Ravid and Jack Khoury. July 17th, 2014
http://www.haaretz.com/polopoly_fs/1.605587.1405546948!/image/755589462.jpg_gen/derivatives/landscape_640/755589462.jpg
Lieberman and Borg Brende at the scene of a rocket attack in Ashkelon on July 16. Photo by Ilan Assayag
Lieberman tells visiting Norwegian FM the two countries are pressuring Hamas not to accept the Egyptian proposal, in order to promote themselves as mediators.
Foreign Minister Avigdor Lieberman on Wednesday accused Turkey and Qatar of sabotaging the cease-fire proposal Egypt drafted for Israel and Hamas earlier this week.
Haaretz learned that Lieberman told Borg Brende, Norway’s Minister of Foreign Affairs, who is visiting Israel, that Hamas lied when it said Cairo had not sent it the cease-fire proposal, which Israel initially accepted.
He said Egyptian intelligence officials had given the details of the initiative to Mousa Abu-Marzook, head of the Hamas mission in Cairo.
Meanwhile, Israel agreed on Wednesday night to a request from Robert Serry, the UN Special Coordinator for the Middle East for UNRWA, to a five-hour cease-fire on Thursday in order to allow humanitarian aid into the Gaza Strip.
The death toll in Gaza continued rising on Wednesday, with 18 more fatalities as Israel intensified its air strikes. Altogether 220 Palestinians have been killed in the Gaza Strip since the beginning of the offensive, the Palestinian Health Ministry said.
“Hamas was ready to consider the Egyptian proposal favorably but Qatar wanted to screw the Egyptians and told them not to accept it,” Lieberman told Brende, Haaretz learned.
He said all Qatar’s moves were coordinated with Turkey and both these states are pushing Hamas leaders not to accept the Egyptian proposals.
A senior Israeli official said that Khaled Meshal, head of Hamas’ political bureau, prefers the Qatari—Turkish mediation to Egypt’s brokerage. Meshal is close both to Qatar’s emir and to Turkey’s Prime Minister Tayyip Erdogan. Israel prefers Egypt as negotiator, especially due to its shaky relations with Turkey and severed relations with Qatar.
Brende also met Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu on Wednesday and offered Norway’s services as an indirect channel to broker a cease–fire between Israel and Hamas. Contrary to European Union nations, Norway is not boycotting Hamas and talks to its leaders.
The cease–fire talks continued Wednesday in Cairo and in a series of telephone calls to diplomats of several states, mainly to the United States. Secretary of State John Kerry spoke on the telephone to the secretary general of the Arab League and to the foreign ministers of Egypt, Qatar and the United Arab Emirates in a bid to generate Arab pressure on Hamas.
Quartet envoy Tony Blair and Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas met with Egyptian President Abdel Fattah al-Sissi in Cairo yesterday. Abbas also met Abu-Marzuk in Cairo and spoke on the telephone to Meshal.
Abbas is to leave for Ankara for talks with Erdogan on Thursday.
Despite the intensive talks, so far no concrete formula that both sides could accept has been presented.
Netanyahu said yesterday at meetings with the foreign ministers of Norway and Italy that he had accepted the Egyptian cease–fire proposal, but Hamas rejected it, “closing the door to a diplomatic solution.”
Netanyahu said Hamas will bear responsibility for the repercussions of rejecting the cease–fire.
According to the Palestinian Health Ministry, nine of the 18 Palestinians killed in the Gaza Strip yesterday were children aged 3-10. Most of the fatalities were from the Khan Yunis area and Gaza City.
Four of the children, of the Bachar family, were killed while strolling on the beach. The four, aged 9, 10 and 11, were killed immediately; several others were wounded.
Yesterday evening six more people were killed in an air strike in Khan Yunis, including a 3-year-old toddler and two children aged 4 and 6.
Palestinian sources said an Israeli aircraft fired at a group of people who had gathered in Khan Yunis’ Absan neighborhood.
The Israeli bombardment from air, land and sea continued all day yesterday on dozens of targets throughout the Gaza Strip, mainly on houses of senior Hamas officials, including political leaders. These included the homes of Mahmoud al-Zahar, former interior minister Fathi Hamad, Hamas parliament member Jamila Ashanti and others.
The houses were empty, probably because their owners were expecting Israel to bomb them, the sources said. Thousands of Palestinians left their homes in the Sejiya and Zaitun neighborhoods of Gaza City after Israel’s warning that it intended to bombard the area. The warning was conveyed through leaflets and telephone cals.
Yesterday morning the IDF fired artillery shells at the Beit Lahia area “in an attempt to encourage population evacuation,” Israeli military sources said.
The Interior Ministry in Gaza called on the people to ignore the Israeli warnings to evacuate their homes near the border fence. The ministry issued a statement saying the warning was part of Israel’s incitement and intimidation campaign against the Palestinians in the Gaza Strip.
“The warnings and vocal messages Israel is broadcasting to the houses are intended to create chaos and confusion among the people and intimidate the public. Don’t respond to them,” the statement said.
Despite this, hundreds of families, especially those with children, left their homes. UNRWA figures suggest more than 22,000 Palestinians evacuated their homes. Most of them found refuge in some 20 UNRWA schools.
“We’re trying to help them as much as we can but our resources are limited,” UNRWA spokesman Adnan Abu Hasaneh said.
Palestinian officials said the Wafa hospital in Sejiya was also told by Israel to evacuate the premises, but the hospital management refused, saying there was nowhere to take the patients to. There’s no reason to attack a hospital, the management said.
The hospital’s doctors and staff told Al Jazeera they decided to stay with the patients and not leave the premises.
Source (http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/.premium-1.605586)
panopticon
17th July 2014, 06:29
Good report from Jonathan Miller in a Jon Snow interview on Channel 4 about the ongoing attack on Gaza (includes footage that may disturb some viewers).
http://blogs.channel4.com/miller-on-foreign-affairs/live-gaza-bombing-continues-ceasefire
-- Pan
panopticon
17th July 2014, 09:47
While I'm not a fan of Global Research this article about the link between ISIS and Israel has some really interesting background information that links into what I was saying yesterday:
http://www.globalresearch.ca/justified-vengeance-the-pretext-for-bombing-gaza-was-the-netanyahu-government-behind-the-killings-of-the-three-israeli-teenagers/5391093
-- Pan
panopticon
17th July 2014, 10:59
Leading up to the humanitarian ceasefire (that both Hamas & Israel agreed to) there were multiple reports in the MSM that missiles were being fired from Gaza. I was surprised to read a report @ Sky News titled 'Three Die As Israel Fire Just Before Truce'. It said:
Three civilians were killed when Israeli tank shells landed on a house in Gaza minutes before a temporary truce got under way, Palestinian police say.
Fighting between the two sides continued right up to the start of the five-hour ceasefire, which began at 10am local time (8am UK time).
A further four people were seriously wounded in the attack on the southern Gazan town of Rafah, according to medics, while the Israel military said 15 rockets were fired into Israel this morning.
Source (http://news.sky.com/story/1302519/three-gaza-strikes-hit-israel-during-truce)
Imagine my disappointment when the title was updated to 'Three Gaza Strikes Hit Israel During Truce'...
3 mortar rounds were evidently fired from Gaza at around the half way mark of the humanitarian truce (10:00 to 15:00 local time [source (http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-28344637)]).
-- Pan
panopticon
17th July 2014, 11:04
Reports that a permanent ceasefire may have been reached between Hamas & Israel are circulating.
The ceasefire is reported to be coming into effect @ 06:00 Friday morning local time (source (http://www.jpost.com/Operation-Protective-Edge/Report-Hamas-spells-out-terms-for-ceasefire-including-prayer-access-to-Al-Aqsa-363139)).
If true, this would be good news for the civilian population on all sides.
-- Pan
Observer1964
17th July 2014, 11:43
Somehow it all reminds me a little of biblical prophecies...
Bible Prophecy
Israel and Jerusalem:
The Road To Armageddon
"I (God) will bless those who bless you (Israel) and will curse those who curse you"
(Gen 12:3)
The Bible warns the destiny of the World is inseparable from Israel and Jerusalem. The Bible says God would one day re-gather the children of Israel back into their land from among many nations around the world. The Bible says they would be re-gathered in unbelief ... God warns He is not re-gathering the children of Israel into their Land because they deserve it, but because His Name and His Word are at stake (see Ezekiel 36:17-23) ... and because He loves them. They are His chosen people. The Bible warns God would then make Jerusalem a world trouble spot. The Bible says all nations of the world will turn against Israel. The Bible warns during this time 'Gaza will be forsaken' ... and offers a stark warning. The Bible warns a coming world leader (the 'Antichrist') will rise out of 10 nations which once formed the Roman Empire and will enforce a peace plan or treaty (‘covenant’) upon Israel ('upon the many' - for many in Israel will be against it) ... and then, after a 3½ year false peace, God warns He will send the children of Israel (and all the nations of the world) through a fiery trial unlike anything in the history of the world, to separate those who will turn back to God and His Word from those who have hardened their hearts against God and His Word (the 'Apocalypse'). The Bible warns two-thirds of the people in Israel will be 'cut off and die' during this time. Then, one day when the armies of the world will gather in and around nation Israel (the coming battle of Armageddon) and when all seems lost for the children of Israel, the Bible says a believing remnant will recognize their Messiah from Scripture, and will call upon His Name. He will then return to save Israel. The Bible also tells us 'after these things' the little nation of Israel and the children of Israel will rule over all the nations on Earth, in peace, under her King and Messiah Jesus Christ (Yeshua Ha'Mashiach in Hebrew). The Bible says all of the covenants, promises, curses, prophecies, and blessings God has made to the children and nation of Israel will be fulfilled ...
http://www.alphanewsdaily.com/Warning%201%20Israel%20Jerusalem.html
panopticon
17th July 2014, 12:11
The report on an agreement between the various Gaza factions and Israel are still circulating with the first report that a ceasefire had been brokered announced by the BBC:
A ceasefire deal has been reached to end fighting between Israel and the Palestinian militants in Gaza, an Israeli official has told the BBC.
He said it was due to take effect on Friday at 06:00 local time (03:00 GMT).
Hamas have not yet officially commented on the purported ceasefire, said to have been reached after talks in Egypt.
Source (http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-28344637)
An article from Al-Jazeera says similar:
Israel 'offers ceasefire in Gaza Strip'
Reuters news agency reports Israel security cabinet has agreed deal to end bombardment of Gaza Strip.
Israel has said there is an agreement for a comprehensive ceasefire in Gaza after nine days of bombardment, the Reuters news agency has said.
The news agency reported on Thursday that the Israeli security cabinet agreed to a truce after discussions in Egypt. The truce would come into effect on Friday if it was accepted.
"There is an agreement for a ceasefire beginning tomorrow. I believe it is 6am (3am GMT)," the official told the Reuters news agency.
However, there was no immediate word from the Hamas group, which controls the Gaza Strip. Hamas rejected a previous ceasefire offer earlier this week, saying it was never consulted on the terms.
The Israeli announcement was made during a five-hour humanitatian truce that began at 7am GMT.
The Israeli military said three mortar bombs landed in southern Israel near the border with Gaza on Thursday, about an hour after the start of a temporary ceasefire. The bombs caused no injuries or damage, it said.
Sources told to Al Jazeera soon after that Israeli artillery fire hit eastern Rafah.
Israeli tank fire also killed three people in southern Gaza just moments before the truce began, the AFP reported.
Earlier, the Israeli army said it has stopped an attempt by more than a dozen Gaza fighters to infiltrate southern Israel through tunnels, as a temporary humanitarian truce came into effect in the enclave.
An Israeli military statement said the gunmen from Hamas intended to attack Kibbutz Sufa. An Israeli air attack killed eight fighters, it said. The Qassam Brigades, the armed wing of Hamas, denied any of its fighters had died.
The Israeli army had conducted 37 raids in Gaza overnight, while seven rockets were fired from Gaza, four of which landed in fields and the rest were intercepted by Israel's missile defences, the AFP news agency reported.
Al Jazeera's Stefanie Dekker, reporting from Gaza said the truce would allow some repairs to infrastructure, such as electricity lines.
Source (http://www.aljazeera.com/news/middleeast/2014/07/israel-offers-ceasefire-gaza-strip-201471795321412364.html)
Conflicting reports coming from Israel (Haaretz (http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/1.605590), JPost (http://www.jpost.com/Operation-Protective-Edge/Report-Hamas-spells-out-terms-for-ceasefire-including-prayer-access-to-Al-Aqsa-363139)) though positive indications that Hamas-Fatah and other Gaza factions are actually being included in the negotiations this time:
Senior members of Hamas and Islamic Jihad tell Haaretz that progress has been made in the negotiations, but that a cease-fire agreement has not yet been reached. (Jack Khoury)
Source (http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/1.605590)
Maybe Israel & Egypt announced a ceasefire agreement had been reached to put pressure on Hamas...
-- Pan
panopticon
17th July 2014, 13:10
Interesting article from J Cook about the first ceasefire deal brokered by Egypt with Israel at the behest of Tony Blair & the US.
Cook also thinks its peculiar that everyone forgot to talk to Hamas...
###
How US and Blair plotted ‘ceasefire’ scam (http://www.jonathan-cook.net/blog/2014-07-16/how-us-and-blair-plotted-ceasefire-scam/)
16 JULY 2014
We now have confirmation from the Israeli daily Haaretz of what we should have suspected: that the idea for the so-called Egyptian “ceasefire proposal” was actually hatched in Washington, the messenger boy was arch-war criminal Tony Blair, and the terms were drafted by Israel.
The intention was either to corner Hamas into surrendering – and thereby keep the savage blockade of Gaza in place – or force Hamas to reject the proposal and confirm the Israeli narrative that it is a terrorist organisation with which Israel cannot make peace.
According to Haaretz, Blair secretly initiated his “ceasefire” activity after “coordinating” with US Secretary of State John Kerry. On Saturday he headed off to Cairo to meet with the US-backed Egyptian dictator Abdel Fattah al-Sisi to persuade him to put his name to the proposal.
Immediately afterwards, he travelled to Israel to meet Benjamin Netanyahu on Saturday afternoon. Sisi and Netanyahu were then supposed to thrash out the details. When they failed to do so, Blair intervened again on behalf of the Americans and the pair spoke by phone on Saturday evening.
Here’s the key paragraph from Haaretz:
Senior Israeli officials and Western diplomats said the reason the Egyptian cease-fire initiative was so short-lived is that it was prepared hastily and was not coordinated with all the relevant parties, particularly Hamas.
Wonderful that throw-away last line. In all this activity, it never occurred to the US, Blair, Sisi or Netanyahu – and no doubt Mahmoud Abbas, who is strangely absent from this account – that it might be necessary to sound out Hamas on the terms of a ceasefire it would need to abide by.
Now it seems Kerry is using US muscle to get Egypt, Qatar and Turkey to strong-arm Hamas into surrendering.
It’s depressingly predictable that the corporate media have swallowed the line of Israel accepting the “ceasefire proposal” and Hamas rejecting it. What Hamas did was reject a US-Israeli diktat to sign away the rights of the people of Gaza to end a siege that cuts them off from the rest of the world.
But there is a long pedigree to such deceptions. It is reminiscent of a hasbara favourite: that the Jews accepted the UN partition plan of 1947 while the Palestinians rejected it. The reality – then, as now – is that the colonial powers sought to strip the Palestinians of their rights and their homeland without even consulting them.
Source (http://www.jonathan-cook.net/blog/2014-07-16/how-us-and-blair-plotted-ceasefire-scam/)
panopticon
17th July 2014, 14:50
So, the reports of a ceasefire may have been premature. The BBC has now altred its report to be in line with the Israeli journalists (Hareetz (http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/1.605590), JPost (http://www.jpost.com/Operation-Protective-Edge/Report-Hamas-spells-out-terms-for-ceasefire-including-prayer-access-to-Al-Aqsa-363139)) and others from the middle east (AJ (http://www.aljazeera.com/news/middleeast/2014/07/israel-fm-says-no-gaza-ceasefire-reached-201471713351408263.html)) who are reporting that there has been no agreement -- as of yet.
As I said earlier, the release of that information to the BBC & Reuters may have been a tactic to put pressure on Hamas, IJ & the other factions to accept less than what is wanted. If they don't then the propaganda machine of the MSM will make Hamas appear responsible.
BTW if anyone is after the UNRWA press release on rockets found in an abandoned school it can be found here (http://www.unrwa.org/newsroom/press-releases/unrwa-strongly-condemns-placement-rockets-school) (#pan).
-- Pan
panopticon
17th July 2014, 16:17
AJWNE83j__k
Wind
17th July 2014, 20:01
Israeli military starts ground operation in Gaza (http://rt.com/news/173700-netanyuahu-ground-operation-gaza/)
Israeli prime minister Benjamin Netanyahu has ordered the military to start a ground operation in Gaza, his office has announced.
"The prime minister and defence minister have instructed the IDF to begin a ground operation tonight in order to hit the terror tunnels from Gaza into Israel," the statement said as cited by Reuters.
Reuters witnesses and Gaza residents reported heavy artillery and naval shelling along the Gaza border.
http://rt.com/files/news/2a/68/40/00/36.jpg
Billy
17th July 2014, 20:12
After sending emails to External Affairs Minister Humza Yousaf to keep the people of Scotland informed. And to put their money where their mouths are. Today the Scottish Government released an update.
http://news.scotland.gov.uk/News/Situation-in-Gaza-and-Israel-ecc.aspx
External Affairs Minister Humza Yousaf comments on the situation in Gaza and Israel.
Commenting on the latest situation in Gaza and Israel, External Affairs Minister Humza Yousaf said:
"A complete cessation in violence is urgently needed and international calls for an immediate, longer term ceasefire must be intensified and heeded.
"The lives lost in this conflict are individual human tragedies and the killing of innocent civilians, be they Palestinian or Israeli, is to be utterly condemned. The rocket attacks on Israel are unacceptable and should stop, as should the Israeli bombardment on Gaza, which is heavily disproportionate, as demonstrated by the mounting civilian death toll.
“It is essential that the UN should be allowed to independently investigate all civilian deaths to determine whether there has been any violation of international law.
"Our offer of medical assistance to help the humanitarian situation still stands and we are currently in dialogue with the appropriate Governments and agencies to assess whether Scotland can give specialist medical help to civilians caught up in the conflict should medical evacuation be possible.
"The Scottish Government also believes that the continuation of the blockade in Gaza is exacerbating the suffering experienced by the people there and tantamount to collective punishment. For that reason I recently wrote to the UK Government to exert further pressure on the Israeli Government to bring that blockade to an end.”
peace
Tesseract
18th July 2014, 02:12
Terrible bombardment of Gaza city tonight. Brazen murder in front of the world's eyes and not a finger being lifted to help the Palestinians. Where is Turkey, NATO power, the great Erdogan? Not so long ago he was cuddling up with Israel, as if the passage of time could erase Israeli culpability over the Mavi Mamara. Some harsh words from him, now that it suits him politically, again, as it did right after the Mavi Mamara. Where is Egypt? Why do they keep the gates closed? Special deal with USA?
Israel must not be able to believe their fortune. They can bomb the disabled at the care facility, bomb the hospitals, the children on the beach, the old man walking to prayers, the fishing boats, the sewers, the water and power infrastructure, houses and mosques - even an outright invasion does not bother the conscience of world powers, arab states, muslim states.
Some economic action from Chile, which is welcome, but it's not enough. Regional powers need to intervene, take united action, if they are so against this genocide. Run the blockade. Force Israel to dare to confront a real state.
panopticon
18th July 2014, 04:28
Good article from Seumas Milne over at the Guardian that gives a bit more background, reflecting some of what I said a few days ago and reported that an Israeli ground offensive (and it is, offensive that is) was almost certain: Gaza: this shameful injustice will only end if the cost of it rises (http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/jul/16/gaza-shameful-injustice-israel-attacks-occupied-people). Important bit:
As the independent Palestinian MP Mustafa Barghouti puts it, the Egyptian proposal was a “game” Israel will now use to escalate the war. Some sense of what can now be expected was given by the Israeli reserve major general Oren Shachor, who explained: “If we kill their families, that will frighten them.”
-- Pan
panopticon
18th July 2014, 04:57
The initial focus of this assault appears to be following the line put forward by Israel that it is aimed at destroying infrastructure used by Hamas & the other factions (most notably the under-border tunnels used for smuggling). The focus of the attack by Israel is being reported as centred on Gaza's Eastern border:
http://projectavalon.net/forum4/attachment.php?attachmentid=26386&d=1405658480
Source: Reuter's Dan Miller (https://twitter.com/DanWilliams/status/489979908719144960/photo/1)
However there is an extensive bombing & missile campaign being reported (at intervals of 2 minutes (https://twitter.com/Mogaza/status/489964874089631746)) within civilian areas.
Haaretz is reporting that the information given to Reuters & BBC was propaganda to distract Hamas & the other factions and that the US was informed that the ground assault about 30 minutes prior to its commencement:
In the lead-up to the ground operation, the Prime Minister’s Office made what seemed like a series of attempts at disinformation in the media. On Thursday afternoon, the BBC and Reuters reported that a cease-fire between Israel and Hamas would go into effect at 6 A.M. Friday. Phone calls from dozens of reporters who called the PMO to confirm the reports went unanswered.
Cabinet ministers told journalists who asked about the cease-fire reports that they had no information about the developments.
Later on Thursday evening the media were told the inner cabinet was scheduled to convene at 11 A.M. Friday to discuss the situation. In fact, the security cabinet was meeting to hear updates about the imminent ground operation. Immediately afterward, about half an hour before the operation began, Israel informed the United States of the decision to expand the operation and invade the Gaza Strip. After Israeli forces where already inside the Strip, Netanyahu and U.S. Secretary of State John Kerry talked on the phone.
Source (http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/.premium-1.605853)
-- Pan
panopticon
18th July 2014, 05:33
Surprisingly good article on the Israeli-Jews charged with the murder of the Israeli-Arab youth on the 2nd July 2014 (from the NYT Middle-East desk):
Palestinian Youth Who Was Abducted and Killed Struggled to Stay Alive, Indictment Says (http://www.nytimes.com/2014/07/18/world/middleeast/slain-palestinian-youth-struggled-to-stay-alive-indictment-says.html)
-- Pan
panopticon
18th July 2014, 06:41
The United States reaction to the news that Israel had commenced a ground offensive was to request that the attack was a "precise operation" while at the same time continuing the usual "Israel has a right to defend itself" rhetoric (source (http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/07/18/us-palestinians-israel-usa-idUSKBN0FM2RV20140718)).
Meanwhile the Australian PM continued his blundering support for anything that distracts the rest of the world from seeing what an absolute disgrace he is. His comment on morning radio shows that he's right across this complex issue:
We certainly support Israel’s right to exist. We support Israel’s right to self-defence and we deplore the attacks on Israel from Gaza. Now I don’t have any further detail on what may or may not be happening at the moment. All I know is that Israel is regularly rocketed from Gaza. That shouldn't happen.
Not only that but Mr Responsible has also said that the downing of flight MH17 was Russia's fault because it "wants to stir up trouble"...
http://media.mytalk.com.au/3AW/audio/tonyabbott200714.mp3
Source (http://media.mytalk.com.au/3AW/audio/tonyabbott200714.mp3)
This will be used to justify the recent expansion of security data retention and review (http://www.abc.net.au/pm/content/2014/s4047563.htm) by Australian security services.
In this audio he also says that it is: 'absolutely outrageous... when a large and powerful country attempts to bully a smaller and less powerful neighbour, but never the less it is an outrage and I think that there is no other word to describe it' (6:30 - 7:00). He is then asked about Gaza-Israel and goes on to ramble some complete nonsense before being bought back to the question, which he didn't really want to talk about.
-- Pan
panopticon
18th July 2014, 07:33
Good article from FP describing the Israel-Egypt destabilisation alliance.
The talk is still of a limited incursion -- but with no effective mediation and neither side willing to compromise, its scope could slowly broaden.
###
The False Front of the Gaza Invasion (http://www.foreignpolicy.com/articles/2014/07/17/israel_ground_offensive_gaza_netanyahu_hamas)
By Gregg Carlstrom, July 18, 2014
http://ricks.foreignpolicy.com/files/imagecache/860x/images/h_51485276crop.jpg
Israel's late-night assault shows the past week's attempts at talks were a sham all along.
Tel-aviv, Israel - The day started with a cease-fire, and ended with a ground invasion.
Israeli troops moved across the border into the besieged Gaza Strip on Thursday night, the first large-scale ground offensive since a 2008-2009 war that killed more than 1,400 people and caused widespread destruction. The invasion, announced at around 10:30 p.m. local time, followed hours of heavy shelling aimed at clearing improvised explosive devices from the border.
Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu said the offensive would seek to destroy "terror tunnels," after two attempted Palestinian incursions into southern Israel in the past two weeks, one of which left eight Hamas gunmen dead on Thursday morning. The army will also target the launchers which various groups have used to fire more than 1,000 rockets at Israel.
It is a major escalation that was never really supposed to happen: By all accounts, Netanyahu was reluctant to send ground troops into Gaza, despite mounting pressure from the public and the right flank of his coalition.
He approved it anyway, on a day that ironically started with a five-hour "humanitarian cease-fire," requested by the United Nations, which was largely observed by both sides despite a few minor violations. At midday, the BBC reported that a long-term cease-fire had been reached after a round of Egyptian-led indirect talks in Cairo.
In hindsight, the report -- attributed to Israeli officials -- seems like deliberate spin, as do much of this week's diplomatic efforts. The Egyptians announced their own cease-fire proposal on Monday night, which Israel respected for a few hours, before resuming airstrikes in the afternoon after Hamas launched dozens of rockets.
Hamas said it was never briefed on the Egyptian proposal -- and learned about it from news reports. The group rejected the idea, and diplomatic sources said subsequent talks yielded little progress. Sami Abu Zuhri, a spokesman, said on Thursday that Hamas did not even have any senior officials in Cairo, except for Moussa Abu Marzouq, a longtime resident of the city.
The effort was a charade, Hamas sources said, a feeling that was perhaps confirmed when Netanyahu explicitly mentioned it in his statement announcing the invasion. "Israel agreed to the Egyptian proposal for a cease-fire," Netanyahu said. "Hamas rejected it, and continued to fire rockets at Israeli cities."
Hamas has been clear about its demands since the conflict began: It wants Israel to lift the siege of Gaza, and to release the dozens of prisoners freed in the 2011 deal for captured Israeli soldier Gilad Shalit, who were rearrested this summer in the wake of the killing of three kidnapped Israeli teens.
Neither of these demands, however, are politically viable. Members of Netanyahu's government, including the hawkish Economy Minister Naftali Bennett, have demanded an end to prisoner swaps. And the military-backed government in Egypt, which labeled Hamas a terrorist organization and spent a year demonizing the Muslim Brotherhood, is unlikely to agree to open the Rafah crossing with Gaza.
Indeed, the Egyptian government went so far as to blame Hamas for the ongoing violence. "Had Hamas accepted the Egyptian proposal, it could have saved the lives of at least 40 Palestinians," said Foreign Minister Sameh Shoukry, according to the state-run MENA news agency.
It is a sharp turnabout from 2012, when President Mohamed Morsi and his Muslim Brotherhood-led government played a key role in mediating an end to the last war in Gaza. Turkey and Qatar could also be viable negotiators, but the former has played little role so far, and the latter is unacceptable to Israel, given its close ties with Hamas.
Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas is making his own attempt to talk with Israel, Hamas, and various third parties. But he seems increasingly sidelined in Ramallah and there is concern within his Fatah movement that a cease-fire with significant concessions from Israel could strengthen Hamas.
The two Palestinian parties signed a reconciliation deal earlier this year, forming a "national consensus" government. The unity government included no members of Hamas, and was widely seen as a concession and a sign of weakness by the ruling party in Gaza. Today, the agreement is in tatters, and while the Palestinian Authority (PA) has issued the requisite condemnations of the war in Gaza, it has also tried to prevent any popular protest. A loosening of the siege would ease the financial stranglehold that helped compel Hamas to sign the deal.
"With time, with successive rounds of conflict, Hamas is becoming the counterpart, the political representative, to Israel," said Ghassan Khatib, a former spokesman for the PA. "The party making war and peace on behalf of Palestinians is Hamas. The PLO is losing the only achievement it had over the past half-century, to represent the Palestinian people."
With no trusted mediator, the thinking in Jerusalem among Israeli officials is that talks are premature.
Analysts and intelligence sources believe Hamas is increasingly divided, with the Qassam Brigades, the military wing, largely calling the shots. Political leaders, many of whom live abroad, have been far less vocal than members based in Gaza.
"There was no agreement between the military wing ... and the political wing," says Shlomo Brom, a retired Israeli general. "If such a consensus will be found, then probably a new time will be determined for the start of the cease-fire, and there will be one. If not, the fighting will continue."
For how long remains an open question. Bennett told Channel 2 that the ground invasion would focus only on "tunnel infrastructure," and an Israeli Defense Forces spokesman said it was not aimed at "toppling Hamas." Netanyahu does not want to re-occupy the strip, despite what some members of his government might hope.
With the smuggling tunnels into Sinai largely destroyed, Hamas will find it difficult to resupply in the short term, and Israeli officials hope this offensive will compel the Qassam Brigades to negotiate.
But the brigades have already warned that Israel will "pay a heavy price" for the ground invasion; the group is unlikely to back down, even after 10 days of heavy bombardment that has killed more than 230 people in Gaza. The 2012 war ended with vague promises to loosen the blockade which were never fulfilled, and Palestinian sources say Hamas is unlikely to accept a similar deal this time. It is vastly outmatched by the Israeli army, of course, but a long and costly ground campaign in Gaza would very quickly lose support among the Israeli public.
The Israeli Cabinet on Thursday night also approved the mobilization of another 18,000 reservists, on top of the 48,000 already authorized. Tanks and armored personnel carriers have slowly massed along the border during the past week.
The talk is still of a limited incursion -- but with no effective mediation and neither side willing to compromise, its scope could slowly broaden.
Source (http://www.foreignpolicy.com/articles/2014/07/17/israel_ground_offensive_gaza_netanyahu_hamas)
panopticon
18th July 2014, 10:24
The Israel Defense Force has posted on its blog the reasons justifying the Israeli Governments decision to launch a ground assault.
IDF Begins Ground Operation in Gaza (http://www.idfblog.com/blog/2014/07/17/idf-begins-ground-operation-gaza/)
In it the IDF makes the following opening claim:
Following ten days of Hamas attacks against Israel by land, air, and sea – and after repeated rejections of offers to deescalate the situation – the Israel Defense Forces has started a new phase of Operation Protective Edge.
I must have missed the Palestinian Navy launching an attack on Israel from the sea. How about that Palestinian air force, truly amazing that they have such a high level of stealth technology that they can't be detected, nor their landing strip, ever. What about the army military forces that are based in Gaza. Truly amazing that they are wearing such high tech chameleon camouflage that, like the alien from predator, no-one can see them massing in preparation...
No, putting it simply, it's poppy cock. There are cells of resistance fighters (aka Hamas, IJ & factions; aka "terrorists") and possibly a loose association that might be interpreted as a civilian militia. There is no grand threat to Israel that is implied in the quote. While I do not agree with violence, violent action taken against an oppressive regime I do understand and sadly the motivation for those who are the oppressors in this instance, namely Israel, is less than clear.
As for the claim that this attack is only 'after repeated rejections of offers to deescalate the situation' I think anyone who has read my posts in this thread will understand that this is just a plain boldfaced lie from the IDF. There were negotiations evidently yesterday in Cairo but it is more than apparent that these negotiation were not undertaken "in good faith" and the IDF was already prepared to launch its ground assault while reports of a ceasefire having been reached were being disseminated to the BBC & Reuters.
Classic disinformation strategy. This is spin at its most optimistic.
-- Pan
panopticon
18th July 2014, 10:46
Once again the IDF has targeted journalists in its latest assault.
http://www.maannews.net/images/345x230/289826_345x230.jpg
Israeli Apache helicopters targeted the al-Jawhara tower in Gaza City at 4 a.m., causing damage to at least 10 apartments in the building, which holds several media offices.
Source (http://www.maannews.net/eng/ViewDetails.aspx?ID=714098)
One journalist was injured in the attack that was obviously part of Israel's precision operation:
http://images.scribblelive.com/2014/7/18/6e8d2347-5e22-48e7-99c9-8fca90aec6b2.jpg
Daoud Residential Tower was also damaged by missiles launched from helicopters with a local radio station in the tower being taken off the air and a number of journalists injured (source (http://www.al-monitor.com/pulse/originals/2014/07/gaza-civil-death-israel-war-crimes.html)).
http://pbs.twimg.com/media/Bspk65hCcAIMF6p.jpg
-- Pan
panopticon
18th July 2014, 12:15
el-Sisi doesn't want to talk to Hamas. Hamas wont be fooled into believe promises from Israel again. Abbas is off to Turkey & chatting with representatives from Qatar & France. Egypt blames Hamas. Israel blames Hamas. Most of the MSM blames Hamas. Abbas sort of blames Hamas, maybe...
An Israeli soldier was possibly killed by "friendly fire" and Israel is removing most of its embassy staff from Turkey. Gaza's infrastructure is being destroyed by Israel's "precision attacks" and civilians are still being wounded and killed.
Oh, and did I mention that 'Netanyahu said he has directed the army to prepare for the possibility of a significant expansion of the ground operation' (JPost (http://www.jpost.com/Operation-Protective-Edge/Netanyahu-Israel-could-pay-a-greater-price-without-a-ground-operation-363356)).
While the rest of the world is looking at MH17, Gaza continues to be attacked.
All because of the deliberate incitement of anti-Palestinian sentiment by the Israeli administration over at least the last 6 weeks.
###
Mahmud Abbas Heads to Turkey as Gaza Truce Talks Stall (http://www.ndtv.com/article/world/mahmud-abbas-heads-to-turkey-as-gaza-truce-talks-stall-560877)
AFP July 18, 2014
Cairo: Palestinian president Mahmud Abbas was to head to Turkey on Friday to push a ceasefire in Gaza after Egyptian-mediated negotiations stalled and Israel launched a ground operation.
Cairo has been the hub of intense negotiations to end the 11-day conflict between Hamas and Israel, after the Palestinian militants in Gaza rejected an initial Egyptian truce proposal.
Egypt, under recently-elected President Abdel Fattah al-Sisi, has moved to isolate Hamas, accusing it of backing insurgents on its own territory.
It has worked instead to bolster the role of Abbas -- its ally based in the West Bank and rival to Hamas -- in reaching a deal to end the conflict, which has cost more than 260 Palestinian lives since it broke out on July 8.
A senior official with Abbas said the talks, which extended into Thursday night, had stalled over Hamas's insistence on guarantees from Israel before its militants halt their cross-border rocket fire.
Amid the diplomatic flurry in Cairo, Abbas was due to meet French Foreign Minister Laurent Fabius before heading to Turkey, which has ties with both Hamas and Israel, said the official, Azzam al-Ahmed.
Italian Foreign Minister Federica Mogherini was also expected in Cairo.
Abbas held talks with Hamas deputy leader Mussa Abu Marzuq in Cairo on Thursday along with Egyptian mediators, Ahmed said.
Abu Marzuq insisted Israel release Palestinian prisoners it had freed but re-arrested and lift its siege of Gaza, Ahmed told AFP.
"Egypt proposed that Israel open the crossings after the ceasefire," Ahmed said. "Hamas wants it now, they don't think the Israelis will respect this later."
Israel's overnight ground incursion raised the stakes in a game of brinksmanship between Hamas and the Jewish state, which had accepted the initial Egyptian truce proposal on Tuesday.
Egypt's foreign ministry has condemned the ground incursion but it also lashed out at Hamas, saying the Islamist movement could have saved dozens of lives had it accepted Cairo's proposal.
According to analysts, Sisi, who ousted Egypt's ruling Muslim Brotherhood last year, has sought to corner Hamas, its ally in Gaza, and deny the movement a victory in the conflict with Israel.
But Hamas's rejection of an unconditional ceasefire has forced Cairo to deal with the movement in an effort to defuse the escalating war at its doorstep.
Egypt, which has a peace treaty with Israel, shares borders with both the Jewish state and Gaza.
Israel has blockaded the coastal strip since Gaza militants kidnapped an Israeli soldier in 2006 and then Hamas expelled Abbas's Fatah party from the enclave in a week of bloody clashes.
Abbas and Hamas have agreed on a unity government of technocrats to end their seven-year split, but the deal has faltered over funding and power-sharing disputes.
Political damage
Analysts said Egypt's initial truce initiative had bypassed the Islamist movement but Sisi's government had believed a cornered Hamas would accept the ceasefire.
However, Israel's ground operation, which risks even higher Palestinian civilian casualties and regional condemnation, could be politically damaging, said analyst Michael Hanna.
"The next question is: are the Israelis and Egyptians prepared to withstand the pressures that would be created by a ground operation?" said Hanna, an Egypt expert with the Century Foundation think-tank based in New York.
Source (http://www.ndtv.com/article/world/mahmud-abbas-heads-to-turkey-as-gaza-truce-talks-stall-560877)
panopticon
18th July 2014, 12:36
Hamas leader says Israel must 'lift siege' of Gaza before any ceasefire (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/israel/10974901/Hamas-leader-says-Israel-must-lift-siege-of-Gaza-before-any-ceasefire.html)
By Ruth Sherlock, and Carol Malouf in Doha. 17 Jul 2014
[Video & images can be found at the Telegraph website the source of this original article (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/israel/10974901/Hamas-leader-says-Israel-must-lift-siege-of-Gaza-before-any-ceasefire.html)]
Exclusive: Khaled Meshaal, Hamas leader, lays out terms for ceasefire with Israel, including ending 'siege' of Gaza, freeing Palestinian prisoners and 'stopping aggression'
Hamas will not agree to a ceasefire deal, until Israel “lifts the siege” on Gaza, the organisation’s political chief has told the Telegraph.
In an exclusive interview, his first since the current conflict in Gaza, Khaled Meshaal has said his organisation will not accept a truce involving only a cessation of fire by both sides, and that any deal should secure long term political and economic gains for Palestinians.
With mediators gathered in Cairo negotiating an end to the conflict, Mr Meshaal, for the first time, laid bare the three principle demands by his organisation.
Israel must “stop the aggression” of air strikes against targets in Gaza, release the dozens of Palestinians detained in response to last month’s killing of three Israeli students in the West Bank, and “end the siege on Gaza permanently”.
“These are our clear demands,” said Mr Meshaal. “We won’t accept an agreement that prolongs the suffering of our people anymore.
In Gaza, for the past seven years of siege, its 1.8 million residents have been living in a prison.”
The demands go much further than a return to the Egyptian-brokered truce in Cairo in 2012, which ended eight days of fighting in the Gaza strip.
That truce included a pledge to open border crossings, intending to ease the blockade of the coastal enclave.
On Thursday Mr Meshaal said that an easing of the restrictions was no longer acceptable and that Hamas would stop at nothing short of a “full and permanent” lifting of the blockade that, as well as regulating the traffic of people and goods at the border crossings, forbids trade from Gaza’s port.
Since General Abdul Fatah al-Sisi, who considers Hamas a terrorist organisation, became president of Egypt earlier this year, Gaza’s Rafah border crossing with Egypt has also remained mostly closed.
President Sisi has taken the further step of blocking smuggler’s tunnels running between Egypt and the Gaza Strip, which had become a vital supply line, both of goods for civilians banned under the blockade, and of weapons for the enclave’s armed groups.
Mr Meshaal refused to expand on the finer points of the lifting of the siege, saying that a detailed framework has already been handed to the interlocutors.
Hamas was willing to work with “any mediator” so long as the group’s demands were honoured.
Mr Meshaal acknowledged that, in addition to Egypt, Turkey and Qatar were also now playing a mediating role.
Qatari Emir Tamim Bin Hamad Al-Thani on Wednesday flew to Turkey to meet with Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan, reportedly to discuss a proposed ceasefire initiative.
Now in it’s tenth day, the fighting in Gaza, has seen 237 Palestinians killed, including 43 children. Israel has suffered one fatality.
When asked whether firing the rockets, which are largely ineffective in the face of Israel’s protective Iron Dome shield, was worthwhile in the face of so many Palestinian deaths Mr Meshaal remained defiant: “If the rockets are not effective, why is the international community now pushing for a ceasefire?” he said, claiming that the attacks had rattled Israel’s foreign backers.
He explained that Hamas’ calculation is “not about the impact of each rocket” but the political effect they have in Israel, and that they are a symbol of the Palestinian’s will to resist “occupation”.
The leader of Hamas said the Palestinian issue could no longer just “be placed on the table for discussion” and that, this time, it had to be resolved.
He insinuated that, with the latest round of peace talks, led by the US Secretary of State John Kerry having failed, a return to violent “resistance” had become necessary.
“It’s normal that you see these cycles of violence. This has been going on for tens of years and it will continue until we reach an end to this occupation,” said Mr Meshaal.
Tensions between Israelis and Palestinians had reached boiling point just before the new Gaza conflict, over the kidnapping and killing of three Israeli students of a religious Yeshiva school in the West Bank last month.
Israel named Marwan Qawasmeh and Amar Abu Aisha, two members of Hamas from the West Bank city of Hebron as the perpetrators of the killings.
Mr Meshaal told the Telegraph that Israel had “no evidence” on which to base the accusation, other than that the two operatives had “gone underground” around the same time that the students were captured and killed.
He said his organisation “had no information” about how the incident came about, and therefore could neither deny or confirm responsibility.
The Hamas leader refused to condemn the perpetrators of the murders, saying that there was “no self respecting Palestinian who would condemn the killing of a settler and those people were settlers. It’s the Palestinian’s right to resist against Israelis, be it soldier or settler, as long as he lives on occupied land.”
Israel launched a series of night raids and sweeping arrests in the West Bank in response to the killing, arresting dozens of Palestinians, including some of the detainees that were released after the exchange deal struck over kidnapped Israeli soldier Gilad Shalit.
In retaliation, Mr Meshaal said: All the Palestinian factions got together, with Hamas at the forefront to defend its people and retaliate against Israel’s aggression.”
Truce agreements to stop the conflict have so far failed.
Mr Meshaal said his organisation was not consulted about an Egyptian brokered ceasefire agreement earlier this week, for which Israel held its fire for six hours: “We heard about the ceasefire deal through the media. We were not consulted. Hamas is the main player in retaliating against Israeli aggression against Gaza. So how would an initiative succeed whilst disregarding the main players?”
Despite the military balance being tipped strongly in Israel’s favour, Palestinians would this time be “victorious” in achieving their demands, the political leader said.
“Every oppressed person fights and tries to gain independence with very limited resources; that’s how they fought in South Africa, and in the French Revolution. The Palestinians know Israel is stronger than them, but the Palestinains are also determined to liberate their land.”
Source (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/israel/10974901/Hamas-leader-says-Israel-must-lift-siege-of-Gaza-before-any-ceasefire.html)
panopticon
18th July 2014, 13:38
How US & Israel lay the groundwork for Israeli Governments attack on Gaza (excellent background piece from the NYT).
The current escalation in Gaza is a direct result of the choice by Israel and the West to obstruct the implementation of the April 2014 Palestinian reconciliation agreement. The road out of the crisis is a reversal of that policy.
###
How the West Chose War in Gaza (http://www.nytimes.com/2014/07/18/opinion/gaza-and-israel-the-road-to-war-paved-by-the-west.html)
By Nathan Thrall July 17th, 2014
Gaza and Israel: The Road to War, Paved by the West
JERUSALEM — AS Hamas fires rockets at Israeli cities and Israel follows up its extensive airstrikes with a ground operation in the Gaza Strip, the most immediate cause of this latest war has been ignored: Israel and much of the international community placed a prohibitive set of obstacles in the way of the Palestinian “national consensus” government that was formed in early June.
That government was created largely because of Hamas’s desperation and isolation. The group’s alliance with Syria and Iran was in shambles. Its affiliation with the Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt became a liability after a July 2013 coup replaced an ally, President Mohamed Morsi, with a bitter adversary, Gen. Abdel Fattah el-Sisi. Hamas’s coffers dried up as General Sisi closed the tunnels that had brought to Gaza the goods and tax revenues on which it depended.
Seeing a region swept by popular protests against leaders who couldn’t provide for their citizens’ basic needs, Hamas opted to give up official control of Gaza rather than risk being overthrown. Despite having won the last elections, in 2006, Hamas decided to transfer formal authority to the Palestinian leadership in Ramallah. That decision led to a reconciliation agreement between Hamas and the Palestine Liberation Organization, on terms set almost entirely by the P.L.O. chairman and Palestinian Authority president, Mahmoud Abbas.
Israel immediately sought to undermine the reconciliation agreement by preventing Hamas leaders and Gaza residents from obtaining the two most essential benefits of the deal: the payment of salaries to 43,000 civil servants who worked for the Hamas government and continue to administer Gaza under the new one, and the easing of the suffocating border closures imposed by Israel and Egypt that bar most Gazans’ passage to the outside world.
Yet, in many ways, the reconciliation government could have served Israel’s interests. It offered Hamas’s political adversaries a foothold in Gaza; it was formed without a single Hamas member; it retained the same Ramallah-based prime minister, deputy prime ministers, finance minister and foreign minister; and, most important, it pledged to comply with the three conditions for Western aid long demanded by America and its European allies: nonviolence, adherence to past agreements and recognition of Israel.
Israel strongly opposed American recognition of the new government, however, and sought to isolate it internationally, seeing any small step toward Palestinian unity as a threat. Israel’s security establishment objects to the strengthening of West Bank-Gaza ties, lest Hamas raise its head in the West Bank. And Israelis who oppose a two-state solution understand that a unified Palestinian leadership is a prerequisite for any lasting peace.
Still, despite its opposition to the reconciliation agreement, Israel continued to transfer the tax revenues it collects on the Palestinian Authority’s behalf, and to work closely with the new government, especially on security cooperation.
But the key issues of paying Gaza’s civil servants and opening the border with Egypt were left to fester. The new government’s ostensible supporters, especially the United States and Europe, could have pushed Egypt to ease border restrictions, thereby demonstrating to Gazans that Hamas rule had been the cause of their isolation and impoverishment. But they did not.
Instead, after Hamas transferred authority to a government of pro-Western technocrats, life in Gaza became worse.
Qatar had offered to pay Gaza’s 43,000 civil servants, and America and Europe could have helped facilitate that. But Washington warned that American law prohibited any entity delivering payment to even one of those employees — many thousands of whom are not members of Hamas but all of whom are considered by American law to have received material support from a terrorist organization.
When a United Nations envoy offered to resolve this crisis by delivering the salaries through the United Nations, so as to exclude all parties from legal liability, the Obama administration did not assist. Instead, it stood by as Israel’s foreign minister, Avigdor Lieberman, called for the envoy’s expulsion on the grounds that he was “trying to funnel money” to Hamas.
Hamas is now seeking through violence what it couldn’t obtain through a peaceful handover of responsibilities. Israel is pursuing a return to the status quo ante, when Gaza had electricity for barely eight hours a day, water was undrinkable, sewage was dumped in the sea, fuel shortages caused sanitation plants to shut down and waste sometimes floated in the streets. Patients needing medical care couldn’t reach Egyptian hospitals, and Gazans paid $3,000 bribes for a chance to exit when Egypt chose to open the border crossing.
For many Gazans, and not just Hamas supporters, it’s worth risking more bombardment and now the ground incursion, for a chance to change that unacceptable status quo. A cease-fire that fails to resolve the salary crisis and open Gaza’s border with Egypt will not last. It is unsustainable for Gaza to remain cut off from the world and administered by employees working without pay. A more generous cease-fire, though politically difficult for Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, would be more durable.
The current escalation in Gaza is a direct result of the choice by Israel and the West to obstruct the implementation of the April 2014 Palestinian reconciliation agreement. The road out of the crisis is a reversal of that policy.
Source (http://www.nytimes.com/2014/07/18/opinion/gaza-and-israel-the-road-to-war-paved-by-the-west.html)
Tesseract
18th July 2014, 19:02
To anyone who happens to see this: UN meeting being broadcast live here. Started at 3pm US eastern time.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/palestinianauthority/10970066/Watch-live-View-of-Gaza-City-skyline-as-Israel-begins-offensive.html
Tangri
19th July 2014, 04:45
CNN Reassigns Reporter Who Called Israelis Cheering Bombs ‘Scum’ in Tweet
On Thursday night, CNN correspondent Diana Magnay did a report from a hill in southern Israel, where a group of Israelis had gathered to watch the beginning of the ground invasion of the Gaza Strip. As Magnay described the missiles flying through the sky behind her, the spectators could be heard cheering on the bombardment. "It is an astonishing, macabre and awful thing to watch this display of fire in the air," she told Wolf Blitzer before signing off.
Her tweet was
Israelis on hill above Sderot, cheers as bomb lands on GAZZA , threaten to destroy our car if I say a word wrong. SCUM
o5clNNBJ2hU
Another reporter was silenced earlier.
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/07/19/business/media/nbc-correspondent-ayman-mohyeldin-is-returned-to-gaza.html?_r=0
panopticon
19th July 2014, 06:42
I don't understand the lack of interest at Avalon in the invasion of Gaza by Israel. There are so many inter-related conspiracies to this that I reckon it is well worth examining.
For example:
June 2004: Israel's Prime Minister Ariel Sharon proposes the removal of all Settlers from Gaza, the so-called Disengagement Plan.
October 2004: Netanyahu threatens to resign from cabinet.
October 2004: Yasser Arafat dies.
October 2004: Netanyahu removes threat to resign because Arafat died.
August 7th 2005: Netanyahu finally resigns from cabinet because of the plan.
August 15th 2005: Settler removal commenced by IDF in Gaza with extensive protests.
September 12th 2005: Settler removal & demolition of settler infrastructure completed in Gaza.
December 2005: Sharon leaves Likud to form new political party (Kadima).
December 18th 2005: Ariel Sharon suffers a minor stroke.
December 20th 2005: Netanyahu re-takes leadership of Likud.
January 4th 2006: Ariel Sharon suffers a major stroke and is incapacitated.
December 2007: Netanyahu takes over as opposition leader in Israeli Government.
March 2009: Netanyahu becomes Prime Minister.
Sharon remains in vegetative state until his death earlier this year.
Location of Israeli settlements in the Gaza Strip removed during the Disengagement Plan:
http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/40699000/gif/_40699840_israeli_settlements_416.gif
Imagine what would have happened had Sharon not been incapacitated. Polls indicated he was set to lead his newly formed Kadima party to a narrow victory in the 2006 election (which it did, under Ehud Olmert, but did not continue on with Sharon's ambitious plan). Sharon seemed to want to eventually extend the Disengagement Plan in the West Bank and withdraw settlers back within the 1967 border. This is indicated by a number of people who worked for him at that time but is not part of the Kadima platform.
If a hardliner like Sharon sees an advantage for Israel in a real 2-State solution then why has it not been implemented?
Sharon wasn't being magnanimous with his plan, he was a hardliner after all, but his rationale allegedly was that if there wasn't a 2-state solution then there was a 1 state solution. Without a 2-State solution (ie maintaining the status quo) Israeli-Jews would eventually be outnumbered by Israeli-Arabs and with a 1-State solution then the Israeli-Jews are already outnumbered. Put simply, Sharon realised that Israel would not survive as a Jewish State beyond the end of this Century unless a realistic 2-State solution could be created. He also realised that if a 1-State solution was enacted then the only way it could be maintained was through the continuation of a form of apartheid that would eventually be unacceptable to the remainder of the world. Just like South Africa it would eventually be removed and simple demographics would lead to Israel being an Israeli-Arab state.
The only solution for Israel & Palestine was/is a 2-State solution.
Settlers hold the balance of power in the Knesset. Why would they give up their homes when they can destabilise and control instead? After all YHVH gave them the land as part of his covenant and that is what they see as their legitimate claim to it.
Now remember that Netanyahu (Bibi) was against the settler removals because he viewed that it would lead to increased terrorist activity from Gaza.
Now look again at what has been going on over the last few months (at least)...
The survival of the Israeli-Jewish Nation-State of Israel relies on a 2-State solution being reached. Religious fundamentalism says it doesn't. The legitimate fear of terrorist attacks within Israeli society continues to make the 2-State solution unpalatable to many and Zionists (particularly American Christian fundamentalists) living outside of Israel continue to say that it is against the will of God.
So, the continued Gaza conflict is the result of all this plus another 3000 years of dogma, tradition, persecution and "intrigue".
-- Pan
Further reading:
http://benjaminstudebaker.com/2014/01/12/the-legacy-of-ariel-sharon/
http://www.winnipegjewishreview.com/article_detail.cfm?id=4&sec=5
http://www.merip.org/mero/interventions/ariel-sharon-jordan-option
http://www.irinnews.org/report/92358/analysis-evacuated-from-gaza-in-2005-but-still-homeless
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/4171982.stm
http://www.haaretz.com/print-edition/news/kadima-platform-includes-jewish-majority-in-exchange-for-territorial-concessions-1.175413
http://www.fmep.org/reports/special-reports/special-report-jerusalem/israel-party-platforms-on-jerusalem
http://www.israelvotes.com/platforms.php
http://anc.org.za/show.php?id=3384
panopticon
19th July 2014, 07:47
Israel will be upset that Iran's nuclear negotiations deadline has been extended to November.
###
Iran nuclear deadline extended by four months (http://news.yahoo.com/iran-nuclear-deadline-extension-agreed-diplomat-211110540.html)
AFP. July 19th 2014. By Simon Sturdee in Vienna and Jo Biddle in Washington
Vienna (AFP) - Iran and world powers on Saturday gave themselves four more months to negotiate a historic nuclear deal after failing to close major gaps in marathon talks in Vienna.
"While we have made tangible progress on some of the issues and have worked together on a text (for a deal)... there are still significant gaps on some core issues," lead negotiator and EU foreign policy chief Catherine Ashton said, adding the talks would continue until November 24.
As part of the deal, the United States said it would unblock some $2.8 billion in frozen funds, in return for Iran converting a quarter of its 20 percent enriched uranium stocks -- which can be used to make a bomb -- into fuel.
American officials will leave Vienna over the weekend with the aim of resuming talks, perhaps at expert level, in August. The UN general assembly in September is also expected to provide a "fulcrum" for the next phase of negotiations, one US administration official said.
In a statement repeated in Farsi by Iranian Foreign Minister Mohammad Javad Zarif, Ashton said the parties would "reconvene in the coming weeks... with the clear determination to reach agreement... at the earliest possible moment".
In November last year Iran and the five permanent members of the UN Security Council plus Germany agreed an interim deal under which the Islamic republic froze certain nuclear activities for six months in return for some sanctions relief.
This expires on July 20, but the parties had given themselves the option to push back this deadline if they failed during the six months to transform the interim deal into a lasting accord.
US Secretary of State John Kerry, who this week spent two days in Vienna trying to broker a breakthrough, said Friday the "short extension" was "warranted by the progress we've made and the path forward we can envision".
"To turn our back prematurely on diplomatic efforts when significant progress has been made would deny ourselves the ability to achieve our objectives peacefully," Kerry said.
- Extending breakout -
The deal would ease fears that despite its denials Iran is seeking to develop nuclear weapons after a decade of atomic expansion.
The deal under negotiation is highly ambitious and fiendishly complex.
The six powers want Iran to dramatically reduce its nuclear programme for a lengthy period of time and agree to more intrusive UN inspections.
This would expand the time needed for Tehran to develop a nuclear weapon, while giving the world ample warning of any such "breakout" push.
The two sides are believed to have narrowed their positions in recent weeks on a few issues such as the Arak reactor, which could give Iran weapons-grade plutonium, and enhanced inspections.
But they remain far apart on the key issue of Iran's capacities to enrich uranium, a process which can produce fuel for reactors but also the core of a nuclear bomb.
- Unlocking of funds -
Kerry said on Friday that under the terms of the new extension, Washington would unblock some $2.8 billion in frozen Iranian funds.
In return Iran's partial nuclear freeze would continue and it will take further steps including turning medium-enriched uranium into reactor fuel.
"Once the... material is in fuel form, it will be very difficult for Iran to use this material for a weapon in a breakout scenario," Kerry said.
"Let me be clear: Iran will not get any more money during these four months than it did during the last six months, and the vast majority of its frozen oil revenues will remain inaccessible," he said.
US officials said that in the past six months a further $25 billion had been earned in Iranian oil sales, which had been added to about $100 billion already frozen in accounts around the world.
But both the US and Iran face tough domestic pressure.
US lawmakers, who are widely supportive of Iran's arch enemy Israel, have threatened to ramp up sanctions without what they see as a sufficiently rigorous agreement.
"It looks like the Iranians won extra time with a good cop, bad cop routine," said Representative Ed Royce, chairman of the House Foreign Affairs committee.
But senior US administration officials reiterated that they opposed any new sanctions for the time being, arguing diplomacy should still be given a chance to work.
"We have vigorously enforced the sanctions regime that remains in place, and will continue to do so throughout the duration of this extension," said White House spokesman Josh Earnest in a statement.
"We will not accept anything less than a comprehensive resolution that meets our objectives, which is why it is necessary for negotiations to continue."
Iran's negotiators in turn face pressure from hardliners, who view the United States as the ultimate enemy and oppose any agreement seen as a concession.
Source (http://news.yahoo.com/iran-nuclear-deadline-extension-agreed-diplomat-211110540.html)
panopticon
19th July 2014, 09:37
Egypt has announced that it will not be negotiating on the ceasefire "agreement" and that basically Hamas can take it or leave it.
It is my understanding that this is what they were already doing. At least they've come out and said it now...
As for the comment that it 'provides the needs of all sides'!
What a crock... There again it does provide for the needs of Israel & Egypt and they are the only sides negotiating so I suppose it's right...
###
Egypt has no plans to revise its Gaza truce proposal -foreign minister (http://www.trust.org/item/20140719090133-sxggc/)
Reuters - Sat, 19 Jul 2014 09:07 GMT
CAIRO, July 19 (Reuters) - Egypt has no plans to revise its ceasefire proposal to end fighting in Gaza between Israel and the Palestinian militant movement Hamas, which has rejected the initiative, Cairo's foreign minister said on Saturday.
"It provides the needs of all sides and we will continue offering it and we hope to get their support as soon as possible," said Sameh Shukri at a news conference with his French counterpart Laurent Fabius.
The comments were made after Fabius held talks with Egyptian President Abdel Fattah al-Sisi on the Gaza crisis. (Writing by Michael Georgy; Editing by Catherine Evans)
Source (http://www.trust.org/item/20140719090133-sxggc/)
jackovesk
19th July 2014, 10:40
Time to relax in a comfortable chair and watch Palestinians get murdered.
http://pbs.twimg.com/media/BsICixqCQAAT17z.jpg
Unfortunately, this basically sums up the rest of the worlds opinion of Israel...:yes4:
panopticon
19th July 2014, 11:24
Here's a copy of the request made by Palestinian President Abbas for the UN to place Palestine under the protection of the United Nations (courtesy of Haaretz (http://www.haaretz.co.il/st/inter/Heng/news/images/ABBAS.pdf)):
http://www.haaretz.co.il/st/inter/Heng/news/images/ABBAS.pdf
Source (http://www.haaretz.co.il/st/inter/Heng/news/images/ABBAS.pdf)
-- Pan
panopticon
19th July 2014, 11:50
Also, to those who can't understand why the people of Gaza are behind Hamas on wanting borders opened the following 2012 report from the UN should help:
http://www.unrwa.org/userfiles/file/publications/gaza/Gaza%20in%202020.pdf
Source (http://www.unrwa.org/userfiles/file/publications/gaza/Gaza%20in%202020.pdf)
The BBC article on the above report follows but notice how it describe the democratic election of Hamas (source (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/4650788.stm)) as it "seizing power". Look for undertones in arguments like this to read through the propaganda used as a means of control. The use of "seized power" colours the perception of the reader and subconsciously justifies Israel's blockade as a "just" control of a "terrorist" group that "seized power"... In fact Fatah supporters were not happy resulting in fighting between Fatah & Hamas following the election (many deaths on both sides) and eventually they went separate ways (source (http://www.reuters.com/article/2007/06/17/us-palestinians-chronology-idUSL1752364420070617)). Which suited Israel & the US just fine.
Hence why the interim Unity Government between Fatah & Hamas that was formed on 2nd June 2014 was reacted to so badly by those same parties...
###
Gaza 'will not be liveable by 2020' - UN report (http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-19391809)
BBC. 27th August, 2012
http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/62515000/jpg/_62515714_62515713.jpg
The Gaza Strip will not be "a liveable place" by 2020 unless action is taken to improve basic services in the territory, according to a UN report.
Basic infrastructure "is struggling to keep pace with a growing population", the UN Country Team (UNCT) in the occupied Palestinian territory said (http://www.unrwa.org/userfiles/file/publications/gaza/Gaza%20in%202020.pdf).
It estimates Gaza's population will rise from 1.6m to 2.1m by 2020.
Israel imposed a blockade on Gaza after the Islamist movement Hamas seized power in the coastal territory in 2007.
Israel says the restrictions, which are policed with Egyptian co-operation, are necessary to prevent weapons reaching Hamas. Palestinians and human rights group denounce them as "collective punishment".
The UN report, "Gaza in 2020: A liveable place?", estimates the territory will need double the number of schools and 800 more hospital beds by 2020, and says it is already suffering from a housing shortage.
The report also says the coastal aquifer, the territory's only natural source of fresh water, may become unusable by 2016.
Disconnected territory
UN officials point to the difficulty of improving the situation given "the closure of the Gaza Strip, violent conflict, and the pressing need for Palestinian reconciliation".
"An urban area cannot survive without being connected," said Maxwell Gaylard, the UN Resident and Humanitarian Co-ordinator (http://www.un.org/apps/news/story.asp?NewsID=42751&Cr=Gaza&Cr1=).
Gaza has no air or sea ports, and the economy is heavily dependent on outside funding and smuggling through tunnels under the Egyptian border.
Even though Gaza has experienced some economic growth in recent years, the report says it "does not seem to be sustainable" and finds that Gazans are worse off now than in the 1990s.
Unemployment was at 29% in 2011 and has risen since then, particularly affecting women and young people.
Traffic through the cross-border tunnels was hit in recent weeks by violence between Egyptian security forces and militants in Egypt's Sinai peninsula, which borders Israel and Gaza.
Source (http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-19391809)
panopticon
19th July 2014, 12:28
Article describing reality of Israel's "humanitarian" approach to bombing civilians in Gaza. Also mentions the targeting of journalists I referred to yesterday.
Very good article.
###
Nowhere to Run (http://www.foreignpolicy.com/articles/2014/07/18/nowhere_to_run_gaza_israeli_hamas_invasion_knock_on_the_roof)
By Sharif Abdel Kouddous. July 18th, 2014
http://khanna.foreignpolicy.com/files/imagecache/860x/images/cropped_452207304_0.jpg
Gaza's residents, under a constant barrage of Israeli bombs, are being told to evacuate to stay safe. If they could escape, they would.
Gaza City - Gamal Magdi Mushtaha had been up all night, unable to sleep, when his cell phone rang at 7:30 a.m. on Friday. The man on the other end of the line identified himself as an Israeli military officer. "Gamal," he said, addressing the father of three by his first name, "you have to leave your house."
To anyone other than a resident of Gaza, the call would be baffling. But Mushtaha, a 39-year-old contractor from Shejaiya, a town east of Gaza City, knew what this was about. The Israeli military was going to bomb his home.
He argued with the officer, explaining to him that five families live in the three-story house, including 15 children. "I told him I'm not wanted, that I'm a civilian," Mushtaha says. "He just said my house was a target and I had five minutes to get out."
Mushtaha woke up his family and rushed them out the door and down the street. A few minutes later he watched as his home was reduced to rubble in a double airstrike -- one missile falling after the other. "I don't know where to go or what to do. I have no home now," he says.
Israel has lauded its warnings to Palestinians ahead of bombing their homes as a humanitarian act, a magnanimous gesture towards its enemy and a tactic designed to minimize civilian casualties. But in Gaza, it is a cruel reminder of how powerless residents are in the face of Israel's military machine and their inability to prevent the wanton destruction of their lives. From Gaza City in the north to Khan Younis in the south, Palestinians in Gaza are being told to leave their homes, businesses, even hospitals to make way for Israeli bombs. Too often, they have nowhere to go.
Warnings or not, the Israeli military has killed nearly 300 Palestinians since the latest bombing campaign began on July 7, some 77 percent of them civilians, according to the United Nations (http://www.ochaopt.org/documents/humanitarian_Snapshot_18July2014_oPt_V1.pdf). Over 1,700 homes have been destroyed or severely damaged.
Eleven days in and there is no end in sight to the assault from the air. The bombardment is almost always worse at night. After announcing the start of a ground offensive on Thursday, June 17, Israel attacked by air, land, and sea -- pounding Gaza with naval artillery, tank shells, and airstrikes. Power lines were hit and the Strip was plunged into darkness. Israeli flares cast a fiery orange glow over the smoke and dust climbing into the air where the bombs landed.
Gaza stayed deserted the next day as the bombing continued unabated. Rubble, twisted metal, and broken glass littered the streets. A few families on rickety horse-drawn carts creaked along carrying scant belongings. They were fleeing their homes to avoid the intense shelling, particularly in the northern and eastern parts of the Strip.
Residents who witnessed the ground offensive said Israeli forces did not venture far into Gaza. "Bulldozers, jeep, and tanks came in about 50 meters, then they started shelling heavily," said Gamal Hassan Sultan, a resident from al-Atatra, about a mile from the Israeli border.
So far, it has been more of an incursion than a full-scale invasion, though Israel has vowed to expand its operations. And the Israeli military continues its warnings to Gaza's residents, though they are not always heeded.
Since the beginning of the war, Israel had been calling the al-Wafa rehabilitation hospital in eastern Gaza telling them to evacuate ahead of a scheduled bombing, according to the hospital's executive director Basman al-Ashi. The Israeli military says it was attacking military targets nearby. Many of the patients at al-Wafa are severely disabled or paralyzed, unable to move. The staff refuses to leave.
The fourth floor of the hospital was first shelled on Tuesday, and several times after that. Doctors moved the patients to the first floor to withstand the assault. Around 8:30 p.m. on Thursday, they received another call from an Israeli officer telling them to evacuate. Again, they refused. Minutes later, the attack began with artillery shells crashing into the fourth, third, and second floors.
"The electricity went out, all the windows shattered, the hospital was full of dust, we couldn't see anything," says Aya Abdan, a 16-year-old patient at the hospital who is paraplegic and has cancer in her spinal cord. She is one of the few who can speak. Many of the other patients are comatose.
Under heavy fire, the handful of doctors and staff carried out the 17 remaining patients on stretchers, in blankets, and in their arms to ambulances that had arrived after braving the intense shelling. They were transferred to the Sahaba Medical Complex in Gaza City. Al-Wafa hospital was completely destroyed. "I was very afraid," Abdan says. "I'm still afraid."
Sometimes, Israel's warnings come in the form of a "knock on the roof (http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/worldviews/wp/2014/07/14/video-this-is-what-an-israeli-roof-knock-looks-like/)" -- a lower-grade munition fired at a building to encourage residents to evacuate prior to a much bigger strike. The blast may be less lethal but it is nevertheless terrifying.
Maher Dabbagh, who lives in the center of Gaza City, was shocked out of his slumber at 4:00 a.m. on Thursday by such a strike on his roof. Many Palestinian families have taken to sleeping together in the same room to be able to evacuate in time. Dabbagh scrambled out of his house with his five kids. His neighbors all did the same, flooding out of their homes and running down the street, young children tripping over each other screaming. Minutes later, two missiles slammed into an empty lot adjacent to the house. "It felt like an earthquake," Dabbagh said.
The bombing left deep cracks in the walls of his home, some buckling dangerously inward, and destroyed part of the first floor. "We were all surprised. I've never seen a rocket go out from here," he said. "Why do they do this?"
The Israeli air force has also taken to showering districts of Gaza with thousands of leaflets, instructing residents to flee, or risk putting "his and his family's lives at risk. Beware." Over the past several days, leaflets have warned Palestinians to leave their homes in the north, south, and east. More than 40,000 residents have been displaced, according (http://www.un.org/apps/news/story.asp?NewsID=48308#.U8msqvldXHo) to the United Nations.
Tamer Zayed fled with his family from Beit Lahia, a town near Gaza's northern border, to Gaza City after leaflets were dropped on his district. He is now sleeping on the floor of a classroom in a U.N.-run school that has been converted into a makeshift shelter. His brother-in-law was killed days earlier, in an airstrike as he was walking down the street.
"Every two years we leave our houses and we come here," Zayed says, referring to previous Israeli assaults. "And the whole world just watches."
But often the Israelis give no warning at all.
At 7:00 a.m. on Friday, an Apache helicopter fired three missiles, one minute apart, into the eighth floor of the al-Jawhara building in Gaza City where the Watania News Agency, a well-known local TV production company, has its offices. Thirty media workers were sleeping inside, as they had for the past 11 days, working night and day to cover the war. Miraculously, only two people were wounded (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uv5jjh6La8Q) in the attack.
"We are well-known journalists," says Mustafa Shahada, the executive director of Watania, standing in the street amid the debris, glass, and papers from his office in the street below the building. The twisted shell of one of the missiles lay nearby. "God knows why they hit us."
Residents of Gaza can do little in the face of Israel's assault. Yet not all messages to Palestinians in Gaza are threats. On Thursday evening, as the Israeli bombardment was at its peak, many customers of the Palestinian cell phone service Jawwal received a text message. "Dear customer, 10 shekels credit has been added to your account free of charge for use in emergency situations, may God help you. The Jawwal family prays that God may protect you and our people from any harm."
Source (http://www.foreignpolicy.com/articles/2014/07/18/nowhere_to_run_gaza_israeli_hamas_invasion_knock_on_the_roof)
Tesseract
19th July 2014, 14:25
I don't understand the lack of interest at Avalon in the invasion of Gaza by Israel. There are so many inter-related conspiracies to this that I reckon it is well worth examining.
For example:
June 2004: Israel's Prime Minister Ariel Sharon proposes the removal of all Settlers from Gaza, the so-called Disengagement Plan.
October 2004: Netanyahu threatens to resign from cabinet.
October 2004: Yasser Arafat dies.
October 2004: Netanyahu removes threat to resign because Arafat died.
August 7th 2005: Netanyahu finally resigns from cabinet because of the plan.
August 15th 2005: Settler removal commenced by IDF in Gaza with extensive protests.
September 12th 2005: Settler removal & demolition of settler infrastructure completed in Gaza.
December 2005: Sharon leaves Likud to form new political party (Kadima).
December 18th 2005: Ariel Sharon suffers a minor stroke.
December 20th 2005: Netanyahu re-takes leadership of Likud.
January 4th 2006: Ariel Sharon suffers a major stroke and is incapacitated.
December 2007: Netanyahu takes over as opposition leader in Israeli Government.
March 2009: Netanyahu becomes Prime Minister.
Sharon remains in vegetative state until his death earlier this year.
Yes, I have often times wondered about how all of these events have ultimately resulted in Netanyahu dominating Israeli politics. I seem to remember that he was dreadfully unpopular around when Ehud Barak became prime minister. I remember Sharon was starting to (seemingly) show some signs of compromise right before he 'died' - of course it could have all been a facade.. The other sensational thing you could list here is the corruption of Ehud Olmert. Meanwhile Shimon Peres has been quietly presiding over most of this turmoil - I suspect, given his background, that he has been particularly active behind the scenes in all sorts of ways that we will never be aware of.
Tesseract
19th July 2014, 16:03
From the deputy speaker:
“After the IDF completes the ‘softening’ of the targets with its firepower, the IDF will conquer the entire Gaza, using all the means necessary to minimize any harm to our soldiers, with no other considerations,” Feiglin writes in one of several calls for outright war crimes.
Following the reconquest, Israel’s army “will thoroughly eliminate all armed enemies from Gaza. The enemy population that is innocent of wrongdoing and separated itself from the armed terrorists will be treated in accordance with international law and will be allowed to leave,” Feiglin writes.
“Gaza is part of our land”
“Gaza is part of our Land and we will remain there forever,” Feiglin concludes. “Subsequent to the elimination of terror from Gaza, it will become part of sovereign Israel and will be populated by Jews. This will also serve to ease the housing crisis in Israel.”
Feiglin has a long history of incitement. Last week he expelled Arab members of the Knesset who dared to criticize Israel’s ongoing slaughter in Gaza and called for Israel to cut off power to dialysis patients there.
http://electronicintifada.net/blogs/ali-abunimah/expel-palestinians-populate-gaza-jews-says-knesset-deputy-speaker
Tesseract
20th July 2014, 03:00
Some pertinent words from the late Ahmed Yassin:
vKa1kRWX0AA
panopticon
20th July 2014, 04:13
I don't understand the lack of interest at Avalon in the invasion of Gaza by Israel. There are so many inter-related conspiracies to this that I reckon it is well worth examining.
For example:
June 2004: Israel's Prime Minister Ariel Sharon proposes the removal of all Settlers from Gaza, the so-called Disengagement Plan.
October 2004: Netanyahu threatens to resign from cabinet.
October 2004: Yasser Arafat dies.
October 2004: Netanyahu removes threat to resign because Arafat died.
August 7th 2005: Netanyahu finally resigns from cabinet because of the plan.
August 15th 2005: Settler removal commenced by IDF in Gaza with extensive protests.
September 12th 2005: Settler removal & demolition of settler infrastructure completed in Gaza.
December 2005: Sharon leaves Likud to form new political party (Kadima).
December 18th 2005: Ariel Sharon suffers a minor stroke.
December 20th 2005: Netanyahu re-takes leadership of Likud.
January 4th 2006: Ariel Sharon suffers a major stroke and is incapacitated.
December 2007: Netanyahu takes over as opposition leader in Israeli Government.
March 2009: Netanyahu becomes Prime Minister.
Sharon remains in vegetative state until his death earlier this year.
Yes, I have often times wondered about how all of these events have ultimately resulted in Netanyahu dominating Israeli politics. I seem to remember that he was dreadfully unpopular around when Ehud Barak became prime minister. I remember Sharon was starting to (seemingly) show some signs of compromise right before he 'died' - of course it could have all been a facade.. The other sensational thing you could list here is the corruption of Ehud Olmert. Meanwhile Shimon Peres has been quietly presiding over most of this turmoil - I suspect, given his background, that he has been particularly active behind the scenes in all sorts of ways that we will never be aware of.
There is so much intrigue/manipulation/corruption to do with Israeli politics that its impossible to believe anything any of them say (or appear to do). Remember that Sharon started the 2nd Intifafa (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Intifada) by declaring that Israel "owned the temple mount". That got all the fundamentalists Christians in a blather because it meant that he was either the antichrist (BTW not many said that) or this was "fulfilling prophecy". You know what they're like and their not above manipulating scripture (to make it all look good for them) then declaring "God moves in mysterious ways" or some such nonsense... Not to mention that the ones who control, and are believers in these "prophecies", push to try and make the "2nd Coming" occur.
Also, Sharon was showing the appearance of trying to end the 2nd Intifada and then Arafat mysteriously dies and then the Disengagement Plan is undertaken and all the Fundies were really getting excited. Next Sharon goes into a coma and everything fell apart. There were some fundies who thought that this was "tha wirk of tha divil". I reckon it was either human manipulation or just the result of Sharon liking to eat/drink/smoke too much. Anyway...
The 2nd Intifada ended and the Israeli Gaza Strip "settlers" were removed (some forcibly) and all the infrastructure that they had built was destroyed. The same occurred with a few "settlements" in the occupied West Bank. I thought it extremely cruel at the time that they destroyed the infrastructure etc and looking back on it I still view it the same.
Excellent observation Tesseract that former Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Olmert was handed down a 6 year jail term back in May for accepting bribes (source (http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/may/13/former-israeli-pm-ehud-olmert-six-years-jail)). This is around the time when everything was starting to lead to the present assault (I use the term assault because anything else implies some form of equality in the attack/response matrix which would not only be inaccurate and simply wrong, but also would legitimise the Israeli Governments use of propaganda techniques to manipulate the subconscious mind). Olmert led Kadima after Sharon entered into a coma and was Prime Minister from 2006 - 2009.
Again, so much intrigue.
Also, Peres is a Grand Knight Cross of the Order of Saint Michael and Saint George... Now I'm not one for pseudo-Christian conspiracy theories but what is the President of Israel (a Jewish head of state and presumably a Jew) doing accepting the role as a leader in an order that was setup and run by the English royal family and honours the Catholic Saint George??? I can sort of understand Michael, in the Mythology he's an archangel, but Saint George? To make matters worse Saint George is also recognised in Islam so its all a bit weird if you ask me...
There's just so much manipulation and game playing in Israeli politics that it really is impossible to work out whether a long con is getting played (with ground work being laid for later), whether manoeuvring is going on in a bid for more money/control/power or if there is just a monumental f*kup.
Anyone who has actually looked at this and hasn't gotten taken away with the emotional roller-coaster ride (which is definitely intentional) can see that this has all been carefully orchestrated. I also think it rather fortuitous for Israel that so much of the worlds attention is taken up by flight MH17. That's fairly well all I see on Australian news reports and I imagine it's the same elsewhere. Very fortunate for Israel indeed...
-- Pan
Unrelated...
Oh, I just found out that in Oz a tweet has been getting circulated which reads:
#Lateline time to sell the ABC. They have well and truly passed their use-by date. Over-run by left-wing radicals
When one of the persons flood tweeting this was asked by a friend "what's up with that" the bloke said "I was paid to tweet it mate". Traces back to Murdoch press evidently.
panopticon
20th July 2014, 05:25
From the deputy speaker:
“After the IDF completes the ‘softening’ of the targets with its firepower, the IDF will conquer the entire Gaza, using all the means necessary to minimize any harm to our soldiers, with no other considerations,” Feiglin writes in one of several calls for outright war crimes.
Following the reconquest, Israel’s army “will thoroughly eliminate all armed enemies from Gaza. The enemy population that is innocent of wrongdoing and separated itself from the armed terrorists will be treated in accordance with international law and will be allowed to leave,” Feiglin writes.
“Gaza is part of our land”
“Gaza is part of our Land and we will remain there forever,” Feiglin concludes. “Subsequent to the elimination of terror from Gaza, it will become part of sovereign Israel and will be populated by Jews. This will also serve to ease the housing crisis in Israel.”
Feiglin has a long history of incitement. Last week he expelled Arab members of the Knesset who dared to criticize Israel’s ongoing slaughter in Gaza and called for Israel to cut off power to dialysis patients there.
http://electronicintifada.net/blogs/ali-abunimah/expel-palestinians-populate-gaza-jews-says-knesset-deputy-speaker
So according to Feiglin the Israeli army is moving into Gaza. That's a shocking development.
The reports from media on the Gaza/Israel border is that there is a mass of fire power and soldiers (total of 60,000 called up at last count) gathered for a ground assault.
Also a lot of experienced war correspondents are reporting being shocked by the carnage wrought by Israel in Gaza. In particular the number of civilian casualties from the "surgically precise missile" attacks.
Further to what I've been saying for 2 days about Israel's deliberate attacks on journalists:
Israel warns reporters in Gaza it is "not in any way responsible for injury or damage that may occur as a result of" reporting from there
Source (https://twitter.com/crispiandjb/status/490574146544222208)
Full message sent by IDF to foreign journalists:
Subject: GPO Advisory to Journalists Covering Operation Protective Edge from the Gaza Strip
GPO Advisory to Journalists Covering Operation Protective Edge from the Gaza Strip
(Communicated by the GPO)
Hamas and other terrorist groups in Gaza continue to attack Israel's civilian population. They have fired over 1,800 rockets at Israel's towns and cities, putting five million of our citizens – men, women and children – in bomb shelters. They have infiltrated Israel by sea and tunnel in an attempt to murder and kidnap Israelis.
In response to these attacks and Hamas' repeated rejection of cease-fire proposals, the IDF began a ground operation in Gaza on Thursday night.
The GPO is doing everything in its power to provide the foreign press with timely information and to facilitate access.
Nevertheless, we wish to stress that Gaza and its vicinity are a battleground. Covering the hostilities exposes journalists to life-threatening danger (and involves risk to equipment).
As part of Hamas' strategy of hiding behind the civilian population it has frequently exploited journalists as human shields, deliberately putting them at risk of injury or death.
Israel is not in any way responsible for injury or damage that may occur as a result of field reporting.
The GPO advises the members of the press to take every possible precaution. Journalists in need of assistance should contact the GPO to facilitate expedited passage from the Erez crossing.
Be safe in your mission.
Source (http://www.twitlonger.com/show/n_1s2hmr9)
So does this mean that the US & her allies make use of the media as "human shields" through their practice of "embedding"?
-- Pan
panopticon
20th July 2014, 05:53
82% of persons killed in the Israeli assault on Gaza civilians and almost a quarter of all persons killed were children (source (http://www.pchrgaza.org/portal/en/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=10491:statistics-victims-of-the-israeli-offensive-on-gaza-since-08-july-2014&catid=145:in-focus)).
Almost all those injured in the assault have been civilians with over 30% being children.
So much for a surgically precise operation...
I also came across a "Middle East Friendship Chart" at Slate.com which is quite good and might help those interested in figuring out the "who" questions:
http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_world_/2014/07/17/the_middle_east_friendship_chart.html
-- Pan
panopticon
20th July 2014, 06:19
Israeli Government appears to be going to increase assault on Gaza.
IDF Spokesperson:
We are currently expanding our ground operation against Hamas in Gaza.
Source (https://twitter.com/IDFSpokesperson/status/490680897545318400)
###
Israel to expand Gaza ground offensive (http://news.yahoo.com/israel-expand-gaza-ground-offensive-025624980.html)
http://media.zenfs.com/en_us/News/afp.com/49a0ad131546fc72e985cde86850fab093843e4e.jpg
Israeli soldiers from the Golani Infantry Brigade prepare their equipment and weapons near their Armoured Personnel Carrier
Jerusalem (AFP) - Israel's army said Sunday it was expanding its ground offensive against the Gaza Strip, as the bloodiest conflict since 2009 entered its 13th day with a death toll of over 350.
"This evening, the ground phase of Operation Protective Edge expands, as additional forces join the effort to combat terror in the Gaza Strip and establish a reality in which Israeli residents can live in safety and security," the army said in a statement.
The army began the ground offensive late Thursday, after 10 days of aerial and naval bombardment of the besieged Palestinian territory, in a bid to stamp out rocket fire from Gaza militants.
Since the ground operation began, three Israeli soldiers have been killed, including two in a firefight with Hamas militants inside Israeli territory.
Army Chief-of-Staff Lieutenant Colonel Benny Gantz warned Friday that as Israel expanded the ground operation there would be "moments of hardship," alluding to the possibility of further Israeli casualties.
The operation has so far killed 352 Palestinians and five Israelis.
Source (http://news.yahoo.com/israel-expand-gaza-ground-offensive-025624980.html)
Jean-Luc
20th July 2014, 06:27
Apparently the opening post was not casual.
https://libertesinternets.files.wordpress.com/2014/07/times_of_israel.jpg
***************
"(Israelis) have no conscience, no honour, no pride. Those who condemn Hitler day and night have surpassed Hitler in barbarism,"
in article : "Turkish PM Erdogan says Israel 'surpasses Hitler in barbarism' "
http://uk.reuters.com/article/2014/07/19/uk-israel-turkey-travel-idUKKBN0FO0XD20140719
It's a total shame that these kinds of words only come from dubious political leaders such as Erdogan, while the rest of so called (and badly so) "internationl community" comes out with soft reactions such as "hope that the conflict will not escalate" and the like.
panopticon
20th July 2014, 06:39
Apparently the opening post was not casual.
https://libertesinternets.files.wordpress.com/2014/07/times_of_israel.jpg
I don't think this is a real article.
-- Pan
It is a parody (source (https://twitter.com/stevesalaita/status/489945138874302464)). Link to first post by author of this parody image here (https://twitter.com/boun0479/status/489906330195345408).
Posting parody title to assist other people searching onine:
Tel-Aviv municipality to install giant screens to watch IDF offensive
Jean-Luc
20th July 2014, 07:21
Yes, I find it hard to believe it too.
Just as I find it hard to believe that Israel is assaulting civilians in the most barbaric way while NATO countries watch in silence merely expressing... concern (when they do).
panopticon
20th July 2014, 07:48
Good article explaining why attention is directed away from Gaza.
Good paragraph (emphasis mine):
For a few hours on Wednesday it seemed that the filmed killing of four children on a Gaza beach may be tipping the scales against the Israeli operation, but then a Malaysian Airlines Boeing 777 fell down from the sky and the media’s agenda shifted instantaneously. Despite the much-dreaded Israeli ground invasion that began the next day, the 300 victims of flight MH17 were now vying for attention with the eerily similar number of dead Palestinians, the strategic significance of a possible confrontation with Russia immediately eclipsed the limited ramifications of another Middle East altercation, and journalistic zeal refocused on the crazy catastrophe in Ukraine instead of the showdown in Gaza, which, let’s face it, is more of the same for everyone concerned, including the parties themselves.
###
For its relatively free hand in Gaza, Israel can thank Assad, Islamic State and the Donetsk People’s Republic (http://www.haaretz.com/blogs/west-of-eden/.premium-1.606105)
By Chemi Shalev. July 20th, 2014
http://www.haaretz.com/polopoly_fs/1.605979.1405705289!/image/1806298081.jpg_gen/derivatives/landscape_640/1806298081.jpg
Berlin rally where Israelis, Palestinians and Germans jointly protest Operation Protective Edge, July 16, 2014.
Photo by Ofer Aderet
Having pocketed the U.S. administration’s support for the Israeli incursion, some gevalt-addicted Jewish leaders are now complaining about its insistence on mentioning Palestinian casualties, as well.
With all due respect to Benjamin Netanyahu, IDF spokespersons and other hasbara wizards, much of the credit for Israel’s relatively benign international standing during Operation Protective Edge goes to Bashar Assad, the Sunni army of the Islamic State, formerly known as Islamic State in Iraq and Syria, in Iraq and the militiamen of the Donetsk People’s Republic. Assad’s mass murder in the Syrian civil war has made the suffering in Gaza seem like a drop in an ocean of Arab blood; the Islamic State’s insane cruelty seems to have rubbed off in the international arena on Hamas’ already-tarnished image as well; and pro-Russian separatists in eastern Ukraine, in any case, have turned the world’s attention elsewhere.
For a few hours on Wednesday it seemed that the filmed killing of four children on a Gaza beach may be tipping the scales against the Israeli operation, but then a Malaysian Airlines Boeing 777 fell down from the sky and the media’s agenda shifted instantaneously. Despite the much-dreaded Israeli ground invasion that began the next day, the 300 victims of flight MH17 were now vying for attention with the eerily similar number of dead Palestinians, the strategic significance of a possible confrontation with Russia immediately eclipsed the limited ramifications of another Middle East altercation, and journalistic zeal refocused on the crazy catastrophe in Ukraine instead of the showdown in Gaza, which, let’s face it, is more of the same for everyone concerned, including the parties themselves.
It’s not that the U.S. media is ignoring Gaza – far from it. But their reporting often seems to be going through the motions, a contrived intermission before we get back to our main event. Granted, the blogosphere and social media are awash with criticism, rage and protest against what is depicted as Israel’s merciless war on innocent civilians. However, in the established media, in print, TV and web, the voice of Israel’s defenders has been much louder, for the time being, than the demurrals of its detractors.
This is one of the reasons why all of the questions directed at President Obama in his Friday press conference at the White House centered on Ukraine rather than Gaza, despite the fact that Obama had just expressed unusually explicit support, albeit limited and conditional, for an Israeli military operation. The president faces much tougher challenges in Eastern Europe and appears resigned to letting Israel and Egypt deal with Hamas, as long as things are kept under control. Under cover of these two concurrently burning crises, one should note, Obama and Secretary of State John Kerry have succeeded in extending nuclear talks with Iran without enduring the volley of vocal protests that would have accompanied such a move in calmer days.
The Jewish establishment is also enjoying a summer holiday, away from the harsh, Palestinian-centered disagreements that were tearing it apart a short time ago. Most of the mainstream organizations, from J-Street to the ZOA, lined up in support of Israeli efforts to remove the threat of Hamas rocket attacks, recalling long gone glory days of unity and common goals. In a meeting with Kerry on Friday, some of them showed how an appetite comes along with the eating: Having pocketed the administration’s backing, they were now complaining about its insistence on “balancing” it out with concern about civilian casualties.
Though it may be hard for many gevalt-addicted Jews to acknowledge, a confluence of international circumstances has created a relatively comfortable international environment for Israel to conduct its military campaign in Gaza. But Jerusalem may be living on borrowed time nonetheless: Israel may have avoided serious pushback until now, but its operation in Gaza hasn’t garnered much new sympathy either. The prolongation of the conflict or another tragedy that will be captured on film could quickly turn the tables, as has happened in the past, and weeks of pent resentment and frustration could suddenly come to the surface at the most inopportune time.
Unless, as Mordechai told Queen Esther, “relief and deliverance will come to the Jews from another place”, which has been happening a lot lately.
Source (http://www.haaretz.com/blogs/west-of-eden/.premium-1.606105)
panopticon
20th July 2014, 09:34
The following graph shows the number of missiles launched from Gaza into Israel between September 2004 until the present Operation Cliff Edge. It shows the ceasefire had held fairly well until the Israeli forces enacted Operation Brothers Keeper which resulted in the death of at least 5 Palestinians and the arrest/re-arrest of at least 350 Palestinians (many of whom are Hamas leaders).
In what way was Hamas going to respond?
http://www.thejerusalemfund.org/ht/a/GetImageAction/i/46974
Source (http://blog.thejerusalemfund.org/2014/07/gaza-cease-fire-dynamics-explained-what.html)
I hope I have shown in my posts in this thread that the assault on Gaza has been carefully arranged and orchestrated by if not the Israeli Government and Security forces then persons/groups unknown.
-- Pan
panopticon
20th July 2014, 11:03
That's it for me today. I just saw a video of the aftermath of an Israeli ground operation with the dead bodies of women and children in the streets of Shajaia.
It is being referred by some sources as the Al Shajaia Massacre.
Estimated in excess of 200 injured and 40 killed.
Reports are that these were non-combatants.
Words can not express.
-- Pan :tsk:
Tesseract
21st July 2014, 02:07
Another appalling day - dozens of people killed in Shajaia, as Panopticon said. Many killed in the streets simply trying to flee the barrage. A journalist killed, apparently while reporting from an Ambulance. The stream of photos of dead and maimed children on twitter is a torrent. But, even the simple resistance of BDS is proclaimed to be a crime by the zionists. And the mindless mantra of Israel defending itself continues to flow from the lips of the Americans and the British. Truly a despicable world.
The bombs and missiles are American, the jets and helicopters are American, now we know even some of the soldiers are American - for two of them were killed by resistance forces. The USA deserves the most thorough condemnation for its enabling and tacit approval of the genocide of the Palestinian people, condemnation of the government, the weapons sector, and the zionist lobby.
Tesseract
21st July 2014, 02:21
26504
For those who haven't seen it; some of Israel's famous flechettes, which it packs into its shells as shrapnel. Most moral army in the world.
panopticon
21st July 2014, 06:09
Israel has extended bombing to include Southern and Central Gaza with reports of extensive shelling from the IDF's Navy, drones, F-16, Apache Helicopters and tanks. Numerous reports of families being killed while they slept (in one case 25 family members in the same house [source (https://twitter.com/Mogaza/status/491077838544453632)]).
To those who ask: "They've had warning, why don't they leave?"
Some of these people are disabled and elderly and unable to be moved without transport. Others are so petrified that they simply can't.
Many have returned with the question: "Go where?"
That's what Kerry refers to when he says that 'Israel is under siege' to CNN (source (http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/183114)). WTF? Israel is under siege? No wonder the US population still thinks this has something to do with 3 slaughtered Israeli-Jewish teens and nothing to do with money, control and power (especially in Israeli politics). Here's Kerry showing how the public opinion must be different from the private in negotiations (that's called diplomacy):
9ACr9dCTb7M
-- Pan
panopticon
21st July 2014, 06:23
This is the sanitised version of images from Shajaia (some of the less graphic footage I saw last night is now posted on RT (http://rt.com/news/174272-israel-gaza-shelling-victims/) though be warned that while it is not as graphic as some I saw last night some of the film footage in this link shows dismembered children and women -- you have been warned).
For a live steam of footage from Gaza see here:
http://www.ustream.tv/channel/10016873
Remember, while I haven't included any graphic images of the dead and injured, this is what Israeli Prime Minister Netanyahu refers to as 'telegenically dead Palestinians' (evidently he reckons they look good for Hamas on television).
http://media.skynews.com/media/images/generated/2014/7/21/324485/default/v8/gaza-shajiyah-district-map-1-522x293.jpg
http://media.skynews.com/media/images/generated/2014/7/20/324448/default/v1/rtr3zdo1-1-522x293.jpg
http://media.skynews.com/media/images/generated/2014/7/20/324401/default/v1/rtr3zdsj-1-522x293.jpg
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BtBhgUzCQAAJJEM.jpg
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Bs_DFblIMAAVaw5.jpg
http://img.washingtonpost.com/blogs/worldviews/files/2014/07/04323930_image_982w.jpg
http://img.washingtonpost.com/blogs/worldviews/files/2014/07/04323941_image_982w.jpg
http://img.washingtonpost.com/blogs/worldviews/files/2014/07/Mideast_Israel_Palestinians-07cf2_image_982w.jpg
http://img.washingtonpost.com/blogs/worldviews/files/2014/07/04323959_image_982w.jpg
Now tell me 'Israel is under siege'...
-- Pan
Wind
21st July 2014, 07:32
kKewT6af-rI
panopticon
21st July 2014, 15:48
As news comes in of another hospital being shelled by the IDF, the ICU ward @ Aqsa being hit leaving 5 dead & 16 injured with further shelling underway (source (https://twitter.com/Mogaza/status/491198245410848769)), of increased tank shelling and land operations as well as aerial bombardment and reports that the Internet in Gaza is being selectively taken down, I'm left wondering about John Kerry's comment that 'Israel is under siege'.
Let's examine that shall we.
First a quick reminder from yesterday. I posted the following image:
http://projectavalon.net/forum4/attachment.php?attachmentid=26525&d=1405946461
It shows that since the 2012 ceasefire there has been very few missiles launched from Gaza into Israel. BTW, the majority that were launched are well documented as not the work of Hamas or IJ (unless in retaliation for an Israeli attack).
Now we're all up to date let's continue on with the review by looking at the number of deaths that have occurred on both sides. I personally really find this very distasteful and don't think in terms of a "running death count" but feel that it shows the lie that has been told to the world very clearly.
The first graph below shows that the vast majority of deaths have been Palestinian. Now be warned, these graphs do not distinguish between Palestinians living in Gaza, the West Bank or within the Israeli community and nor do they distinguish between Israeli-Jews living in the occupied "settlements" or those living in Tel-Aviv/Jerusalem or the heavily bombed regions nearer to Gaza (like Sderot). These graphs are very simple and just there to show that the majority of fatalities have not been occurring to the Israeli's who are, according to Kerry at least, 'under siege'.
http://projectavalon.net/forum4/attachment.php?attachmentid=26523&d=1405946240
For those interested the interactive graph I've taken images of for this post can be found here (http://public.tableausoftware.com/shared/JKM5D4J8Q?:toolbar=no&:display_count=no).
The above graph clearly shows the period referred to as the 2nd Intifada (October 2000 to between December 2004 [around Arafat's death] and late 2005 [Settler withdrawals]). It is often reported that the 2nd Intifada was started by Sharon's proclamation that Israel now owned the Temple Mount (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Temple_Mount) which is also the site of the Dome Of The Rock (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dome_of_the_Rock). These two places are major centres of worship for both Jews and Muslims. This is all very inconvenient as Fundy Christians put that spot in the centre of their eschatology (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_eschatology). Talk about a popular tourist spot! Anyway I digress...
From the end of the 2nd Intifada, in conjunction with the withdrawal of settlers (Disengagement Plan) from Gaza (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_disengagement_from_Gaza) & a few settlements in the West Bank (September 22 2005), the number of Israeli deaths can be seen to decrease dramatically. At this time, instead of going into the way in which the Israeli's gradually created what some commentators refer to as an Open Prison in Gaza and the base of many of the present problems, I'll move onto the more relevant period to the discussion and examine the casualties between Operation Pillar of Defense (October 2012) and the beginning of Operation Protective Edge (July 2014).
The two graphs below show that the casualties have yet again been predominantly Palestinians. If viewed in conjunction with the first graph on launches from Gaza it can be clearly seen that there is no way that anyone can claim that Israel does not have the advantage. In what way has Hamas (who wasn't even firing rockets until the Israeli Government and Security forces started rounding up its leaders in what some might view as trumped up charges) got Israel "under siege". How deluded would someone have to be to believe that crock once they've been presented with the evidence? Has Kerry not seen the evidence or is he scared of the Lobbies?
In the second graph below the bar on the far right is for June 2014. It includes the 3 Israeli-Jewish youths slaughtered in a deplorable act. They are the blue section at the bottom. The red section at the top includes the Israeli-Arab youth slaughtered by vigilantes and the 9 Palestinians killed during the Israeli Operation Brother's Keeper.
http://projectavalon.net/forum4/attachment.php?attachmentid=26522&d=1405946240
http://projectavalon.net/forum4/attachment.php?attachmentid=26524&d=1405946314
Just while I'm nattering on here's an image showing a house after a search by IDF troops during Operations Brother's Keeper. Wonder why Palestinian's riot...
http://www.dw.de/image/0,,17728596_401,00.jpg
Source (http://www.dw.de/brothers-keeper-operation-divides-palestinians/a-17728780) (which is worth a read for background)
I agree that Israel has the right to exist. I'm probably a bit lonely at Avalon on that because I understand that like almost every modern Nation-State it has been born from conflict. Where it differs from other newly formed Nation-States is in the support that it has from around the world.
That support is borne in guilt and that guilt allows Israel to commit acts that most countries would not condone if it was any country other than Israel committing them.
I've been called anti-Semitic in the past because I say what I see the data indicates. I'm not saying that Islamic countries are better because the horrors being committed in Syria and Iraq (not to forget Pakistan & Afghanistan etc) show that to be a stupid thing to think.
Rather what I am saying is that Israel needs to be told enough is enough. Stop trying to destroy the Palestinian Interim Unity Government and close Prison Gaza by facilitating access to goods & services and finding a way to gradually introducing less restrictions on movement...
When people have no future they become desperate. I understand the fear that drives for Fortress Israel but, as I've pointed out previously, time is not on Israel's side and demographics show that by the end on this Century it will be a majority Arab State.
-- Pan
panopticon
21st July 2014, 17:18
Lieberman has just announced that Israel will follow the Egyptian line and try to prevent Al Jazeera from operating in Israel (source (http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/gaza-crisis-foreign-minister-avigdor-lieberman-will-work-prevent-al-jazeera-operating-israel-1457644)).
Guess he doesn't want to negotiate through Qatar then...
In addition Abbas is in Qatar & met with Meshal (from Hamas) to talk about ceasefire negotiations.
Egypt looks like the go and they (Egypt) have indicated that they may be flexible in adding some of Hamas demands (which they had previously said they wouldn't) if "all parties" (namely Israel) agree to them (source (http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/07/21/us-palestinians-israel-egypt-initiative-idUSKBN0FQ1DX20140721)).
Haniyeh (Hamas) has indicated that 'the aim of the current battle is to break a 7-year-old blockade of the Palestinian territory' (source (http://bigstory.ap.org/article/palestinian-death-toll-gaza-fighting-501)). He is quoted as saying: 'we cannot go back, we cannot go back to the silent death [of the blockade]".
-- Pan
Tesseract
21st July 2014, 22:07
Distressing video; appears to show Palestinian (unarmed) man searching for an injured person being killed by a sniper:
sBakqLUBWP0
panopticon
22nd July 2014, 06:05
Distressing video; appears to show Palestinian (unarmed) man searching for an injured person being killed by a sniper:
sBakqLUBWP0
I read about this yesterday here (http://palsolidarity.org/2014/07/human-rights-defenders-under-live-fire-one-dead/).
I've read a lot of stories like this about survivors from Shajaia being targeted by IDF snipers while they ran for their lives.
Many of the stories said they were grabbing anything white they could find to wave (to show they weren't a threat) and many of the men stripping down to try to show they had no weapons.
How about this twisted psychological tale from Kerry:
We are deeply concerned about the consequences of Israel's appropriate and legitimate effort to defend itself.
Source (http://news.yahoo.com/medics-another-16-palestinians-found-dead-toll-passes-045111220.html)
Nothing quite like talking to the subconscious mind.
-- Pan
panopticon
22nd July 2014, 07:19
To remember what sort of tragedies are occurring from (as Kerry rightly ridicules as) Israel's "pin-point strikes":
In just one example of the ongoing Israeli tactic of targeting civilian homes, 26 members of the Abu Jame’ family, including 18 children, were killed in a single strike.
http://972mag.com/wp-content/uploads//2014/07/001-14686227666_c69c156c75_o.jpg
Mourners fill the mosque during the funeral for 26 members of the Abu Jame’ family, who were killed the previous day during an Israeli attack over the Bani Suhaila neighborhood of Khan Younis, Gaza Strip, July 21, 2014. Reports indicate that 15 of the 24 killed were children of Abu Jame’ family.
Israeli attacks in Gaza have now killed more than 566 Palestinians as the death toll exceeded 100 on both Sunday and Monday. The vast majority of those killed have been civilians. In just one example of the ongoing Israeli tactic of targeting civilian homes, 26 members of the Abu Jame’ family were killed in a single strike that also killed four others. Fifteen of those killed were children. An Associated Press report (http://www.washingtonpost.com/national/scores-dead-in-first-major-ground-battle-in-gaza/2014/07/20/b8b378d6-107b-11e4-ac56-773e54a65906_story.html) quoted a surviving family member:
“Doesn’t this indicate that Israel is ruthless?” said family member Sabri Abu Jame’. “Are we the liars? The evidence is here in the morgue refrigerators. The evidence is in the refrigerators.”
The Al-Mezan Center for Human Right organization reports:
At approximately 7:50 pm on Sunday, 20 July 2014, Israeli warplanes bombarded the house of Tawfiq Ahmad Abu Jame’. The three-story-house is inhabited by five families and is located in the Bani Suhaila town, east of Khan Younis district in the south of the Gaz Strip. The house, which was attacked without prior warning, was completely destroyed in the attack. Civil defense and ambulances crews rushed to the destroyed house to uncover the bodies buried under the rubble. It took them until the next day, Monday 21 July 2014, to uncover the victims. Medics found 26 bodies, 18 children and five women. Only three residents survived, and they sustained with varying injuries.
Source (http://972mag.com/photos-a-gaza-funeral-for-24-members-of-one-family/94069/)
panopticon
22nd July 2014, 08:15
Copy of US Senate Resolution 498 which calls for the end of the Palestinian Unity Government:
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BtFXtSJCEAA0-ex.png
PDF version can be found here (http://www.foreign.senate.gov/imo/media/doc/S.%20RES%20498%20As%20Reported1.pdf), here (http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/BILLS-113sres498rs/pdf/BILLS-113sres498rs.pdf) and sourced here (http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/z?c113:S.RES.498:).
First introduced by Sen. Graham, Lindsey [R-SC] 10th July 2014 (source (https://beta.congress.gov/bill/113th-congress/senate-resolution/498)) and unanimously passed by Senate (17th July 2014).
Meanwhile the Irish parliament had a minute silence for the people of Gaza & the occupied territories (video (http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/video-news/video-sinn-fein-leader-gerry-adams-asks-irish-parliament-to-stand-in-solidarity-with-people-of-gaza-30439755.html))...
-- Pan
panopticon
22nd July 2014, 09:54
Looks like there are possibly important concessions being spoken about that might bridge the gap (if we can believe the reports are not more propaganda) between Israel &, well, everybody else...
The suggestion appears to be getting made that the Palestinian Unity Government 'resume control of the Gaza Strip’s border crossings, and especially the crossing with Egypt, under any cease-fire deal with Hamas'.
That is a very big deal as it may indicate that Israel is a least negotiating on ending the siege of Gaza which has caused so many problems. Also it appears they may be willing to allow money in to Gaza to pay the 43,000+ municipal workers who haven't been paid in months (source (http://www.nytimes.com/2014/07/18/opinion/gaza-and-israel-the-road-to-war-paved-by-the-west.html?_r=0)). Israel (and the US) have not allowed any funds into Gaza as the workers had been classified as recipients of funds from a terrorist group simply because they work for the local government.
###
UN chief due in Israel to press for cease-fire (http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/.premium-1.606525)
By Amos Harel, Barak Ravid and Jack Khoury. July 22nd, 2014
http://www.haaretz.com/polopoly_fs/1.606526.1405985458!/image/3414605728.jpg_gen/derivatives/landscape_640/3414605728.jpg
Kerry meets with Ban Ki-Moon in Cairo, July 21, 2014.
Photo by AFP
Ya’alon says he seeks Palestinian Authority resume control over Gaza Strip’s border crossings, and especially the crossing with Egypt, under any cease-fire deal with Hamas.
International efforts to stop the fighting between Israel and Hamas in the Gaza Strip will resume Tuesday, following Monday’s arrival in the region of UN Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon and U.S. Secretary of State John Kerry. Ban will come to Israel Tuesday to meet with Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu and Defense Minister Moshe Ya’alon, while Kerry will first hold meetings in Egypt. It is not clear if and when Kerry will come to Israel.
The topic of discussion will be another humanitarian cease-fire, in the hope that if both sides agree, it will then be possible to move forward toward a lasting cease-fire based on the Egyptian proposal. Israeli officials said the Qatari cease-fire proposal is no longer on the table.
Earlier Monday, U.S. President Barack Obama said he had sent Kerry to the region to obtain an immediate cease-fire in Gaza. He reiterated that he supports Israel’s right to defend itself, but said he has “serious concerns about the rising number of Palestinian civilian deaths and the loss of Israeli lives,” and therefore wants an immediate cease-fire to “stop the deaths of innocent civilians.”
In Doha, the Qatari capital, Abbas met with Khaled Meshal, head of Hamas’ political bureau. A source in Abbas’ entourage termed the meeting “important and good,” adding that despite the reservations Meshal had previously voiced about Egypt’s cease-fire proposal, he and Abbas “agreed that they’re interested in reaching an immediate cease-fire with Egypt’s involvement.”
Meanwhile, Defense Minister Moshe Ya’alon told the Knesset Foreign Affairs and Defense Committee Monday that Israel would like to see Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas’ forces resume control of the Gaza Strip’s border crossings, and especially the crossing with Egypt, under any cease-fire deal with Hamas.
Two Knesset members who attended the meeting said that according to Ya’alon, Egypt was the one insisting that Abbas’ forces retake control over the crossings, and Israel supported this demand.
Ya’alon stressed that Israel won’t recognize the Fatah-Hamas unity government Abbas has formed. “But various arrangements like control of the crossings is something we could accept,” he added, noting that Abbas “will control the crossings, but won’t control the Gaza Strip itself.”
The two MKs said Ya’alon told the committee that Israel doesn’t intend to use its military operation in Gaza to restore Abbas to power there or topple the Hamas government. “Abu Mazen is benefiting from the lawlessness in this case,” the defense minister added, referring to Abbas by his nickname.
Israel is open to ideas from various parties on how to transfer money to pay salaries to Palestinian government employees in Gaza, Ya’alon continued. According to Military Intelligence’s assessment, the unpaid salary crisis was one of the factors that pushed Hamas to escalate its conflict with Israel, as a way of suppressing internal criticism from Palestinians in Gaza.
Hezbollah Secretary General Hassan Nasrallah spoke on Sunday evening with Khaled Meshal, chief of the Hamas political bureau, and with Islamic Jihad Secretary General Ramadan Shalah, declaring that the opposition in Lebanon is willing to help the Palestinian opposition in any possible way to achieve its goals. Despite his words, the Palestinians do not believe that Hezbollah would be willing to open the northern front against Israel, for many reasons, mainly because Hezbollah is very involved in the battles taking place in Syria.
At the same time, the Palestinians considered this declaration a kind of challenge to Egypt and to Abbas, and a renewal of the strategic alliance between Hezbollah and Hamas, which unraveled after the escalation in Syria when Hamas, which follows Sunni Islam, identified with the rebels against the Alawite-led regime of President Bashar Assad. Hamas’ political position forced the organization’s leaders, first and foremost Meshal, to leave Syria and transfer to the Qatari capital of Doha.
Meshal and Hamas, who have been diplomatically isolated since the ousting of Mohammed Morsi and the Islamic Brotherhood government in Egypt, are beginning to gain support in the Arab and Islamic arena in recent weeks from countries such as Turkey, Qatar, Iran and Hezbollah, and in certain circles in Bahrain and Kuwait.
Therefore it seems Hamas and Meshal are in no hurry to meet with Abbas, despite talk since the weekend about the scheduled meeting between the two. Abbas has been in Doha for almost two days, but the meeting with Meshal, who left for a lightning visit to Kuwait, did not take place.
Source (http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/.premium-1.606525)
panopticon
22nd July 2014, 14:06
I was reading that the Israeli Governments Defense Force Spokesperson Unit has declared that they'd killed "170 terrorists"...
That means more than two thirds of the persons killed in the assault have been civilians.
A fifth have been children...
This bought me to the obvious question: How do the IDF work out who is a non-combatant?
In the past there has been long debate and legal advice sort by the IDF as to what a legitimate target is.
As stated by an IDF senior official to Haaretz back in 2009:
The people who go into a house despite a warning do not have to be taken into account in terms of injury to civilians, because they are voluntary human shields. From the legal point of view, I do not have to show consideration for them. In the case of people who return to their home in order to protect it, they are taking part in the fighting.
Source (http://www.haaretz.com/consent-and-advise-1.269127)
When asked if the September 11th 2001 attacks in the US had an impact on what the IDF could legally do the response was that it reframed the argument and allowed for actions to be viewed as military instead of civil law enforcement:
"Absolutely. When we started to define the confrontation with the Palestinians as an armed confrontation, it was a dramatic switch, and we started to defend that position before the Supreme Court. In April 2001 I met the American envoy George Mitchell and explained that above a certain level, fighting terrorism is armed combat and not law enforcement. His committee [which examined the circumstances of the confrontation in the territories] rejected that approach. Its report called on the Israeli government to abandon the armed confrontation definition and revert to the concept of law enforcement. It took four months and four planes to change the opinion of the United States, and had it not been for those four planes I am not sure we would have been able to develop the thesis of the war against terrorism on the present scale."
Source (http://www.haaretz.com/consent-and-advise-1.269127)
Yep, mighty nice to have a look sometimes at how things get defined so some of the statistics thrown out there by parties on all sides can be reviewed.
Below is some simple information from UNICEF, UNWRA & other aid agencies (from part of an ABC article) that is easy to understand. Keep in mind that over the last 24 hours Egypt has refused to allow a plane from Tunisia to land in Cairo carrying medical aid for Gaza. Also, there's some rather troubling scattered reports I've come across that IDF phone calls have been directing people in refugee camps to evacuate to other refugee camps that are later being shelled. I can't verify these phone call reports and I certainly hope that they aren't true. Just mentioning them to show how confused civilians are on the ground in Gaza.
###
Gaza children make up one-third of civilian deaths: UNICEF (http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-07-22/israel-continues-to-pound-gaza-says-soldier-missing/5616030)
With Israeli shells and bombs hitting Gaza day and night, thousands of people have fled districts close to the border, where the worst of the fighting has taken place.
But with access to Israel and Egypt closed, there are few safe havens.
The main UN agency in Gaza, UNWRA, said 101,684 people have taken shelter in 69 of its schools, the number of displaced increasing by five times in the past five days.
The UN Children's Fund (UNICEF) says 121 Gaza children under the age of 18 are among the civilian casualties and more than 900 Palestinian children are also reported to have been injured.
"According to an assessment by aid workers on ground, at least 107,000 children need psycho-social support for the trauma they are experiencing such as death, injury or loss of their homes," Jens Laerke, spokesman of the UN Office for Humanitarian Assistance, told a news briefing in Geneva.
More than 1.2 million people in the enclave have no water or only limited access to water as power networks have been damaged or lack fuel for generators, he said.
"In addition, we do have reports of sewage flooding, which is a threat to public health," he said.
The World Food Programme has distributed emergency food rations and food vouchers to more than 90,000 people so far during the conflict, spokeswoman Elisabeth Byrs said.
"Ready-to-eat food stocks are running low in Gaza given the conflict has lasted two weeks and the needs are increasing," she said.
The World Health Organisation says 18 health facilities in Gaza have been damaged, including three hospitals.
Source (http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-07-22/israel-continues-to-pound-gaza-says-soldier-missing/5616030)
dianna
22nd July 2014, 14:25
Editorial Position of the New York Times: Thumbs Up for Gaza Slaughter
http://disinfo.s3.amazonaws.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/800px-Nytimes_hq.jpg
by Norman Solomon on July 21, 2014 in News
http://disinfo.com/2014/07/editorial-position-new-york-times-thumbs-gaza-slaughter/
Over the weekend, the New York Times sent out a clear signal: the mass slaughter of civilians is acceptable when the Israeli military is doing the killing.
Under the headline “Israel’s War in Gaza,” the most powerful newspaper in the United States editorialized that such carnage is necessary. The lead editorial in the July 19 edition flashed a bright green light — reassuring the U.S. and Israeli governments that the horrors being inflicted in Gaza were not too horrible.
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/07/19/opinion/Israels-War-in-Gaza.html
From its first words, the editorial methodically set out to justify what Israel was doing.
“After 10 days of aerial bombardment,” the editorial began, “Israel sent tanks and ground troops into Gaza to keep Hamas from pummeling Israeli cities with rockets and carrying out terrorist attacks via underground tunnels.”
The choice of when to date the start of the crisis was part of the methodical detour around inconvenient facts.
For instance, no mention of Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu’s June 30 announcement that the “human animals” of Hamas would “pay” after three Israeli teenagers kidnapped in Israeli-controlled territory in the West Bank were found dead. No mention of the absence of evidence that Hamas leadership was involved in those murders.
http://www.latimes.com/world/middleeast/la-fg-israel-missing-teenagers-bodies-20140630-story.html
Likewise, absent from the editorializing sequence was Israel’s June “crackdown” in the West Bank, with home raids, area closures, imprisonment of hundreds of Hamas party activists including legislators.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/06/18/israel-missing-teens_n_5505913.html
Most of all, the vile core of the Times editorial was its devaluation of Palestinian lives in sharp contrast to Israeli lives.
The Times editorial declared that Hamas leaders “deserve condemnation” for military actions from civilian areas in the dense Gaza enclave — but Netanyahu merited mere expressions of “concern” about “further escalation.” Absent from the editorial was any criticism of Israel’s ongoing bombardment of homes, apartment blocks, hospitals, beaches and other civilian areas with U.S.-supplied ordinance.
At the time, there had been one Israeli death from the hostilities — and at least 260 deaths among Gazans as well as injuries in the thousands. The contrast illuminates a grotesque difference in the Times’ willingness to truly value the humanity of Israelis and Palestinians.
In the morally skewed universe that the Times editorial board evidently inhabits and eagerly promulgates, Hamas intends to “terrorize” Israeli citizens while Israel merely intends to accomplish military objectives by dropping thousands of tons of bombs on Palestinian people in Gaza.
http://m.thenation.com/article/180651-netanyahus-bankrupt-strategy
A keynote of the editorial came when it proclaimed: “There was no way Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu was going to tolerate the Hamas bombardments, which are indiscriminately lobbed at Israeli population centers. Nor should he.”
While sprinkling in a handwringing couple of phrases about dead and wounded civilians, the editorial had nothing to say in condemnation of the Israeli force killing and maiming them in large numbers.
Between the lines was a tacit message to Israel: Kill more. It’s OK. Kill more.
And to Israel’s patrons in Washington: Stand behind Israel’s mass killing in Gaza. Under the unfortunate circumstances, it’s needed.
When the editorial came off the press, the Israeli military was just getting started. And no doubt Israeli leaders, from Netanyahu on down, were heartened by the good war-making seal of approval from the New York Times.
After all, the most influential media voice in the United States — where the government is the main backer of Israel’s power — was proclaiming that the mass killing by the Israeli military was regrettable but not objectionable.
The night after the Times editorial went to press, the killing escalated. Among the calamities: the Israeli military shelled the Gaza neighborhood of Shejaiya throughout the night with nonstop tank fire that allowed no emergency services to approach. Eyewitness media reports from Shejaiya recounted scenes of “absolute devastation” with bodies strewn in the streets and the ruins.
http://news.yahoo.com/gazas-shejaiya-moonscape-strewn-bodies-145951100.html
Two days after the editorial reached Times newsprint, over 150 more were counted dead in Gaza. No media enabler was more culpable than the editorializing voice of the Times, which had egged on the Israeli assault at the end of a week that began with the United Nations reporting 80 percent of the dead in Gaza were civilians.
The Times editorial was in step with President Obama, who said – apparently without intended irony — that “no country can accept rockets fired indiscriminately at citizens.” Later, matching Israeli rationales for a ground invasion, the president amended his verbiage by saying: “No nation should accept rockets being fired into its borders or terrorists tunneling into its territory.”
An important caveat can be found in the phrases “no country” and “no nation.” The stateless people who live in Gaza – 70 percent of whom are from families expelled from what’s now southern Israel – are a very different matter.
By the lights of the Oval Office and the New York Times editorial boardroom, lofty rhetoric aside, the proper role of Palestinian people is to be slaughtered into submission.
- See more at: http://disinfo.com/2014/07/editorial-position-new-york-times-thumbs-gaza-slaughter/#sthash.2HJRJYk9.dpuf
panopticon
23rd July 2014, 07:36
Netanyahu's exhibition piece for Ban Ki-Moon (UN Secretary General) -- read as "stage prop" -- is a rocket launched from Gaza @ Israel:
26570
Also Bibi has been reportedly "talking" to Kerry trying to get the FAA to allow flights into Israel from the US (they were stopped earlier today evidently due to the risk to flights over a "conflict zone" since MH17 was targeted in Ukrainian air space).
Mustn't be such a risk from the above (water pipe) missiles to Israel as is being reported eh Bibi?
-- Pan
panopticon
23rd July 2014, 09:47
A reporter from Al Jazeera broke into tears while on the air. He was reporting what he had seen in the Shajaia district.
Article from RT.com.
UN Human Rights Council 21st Special Sitting (on Israel-Gaza) viewable live:
http://webtv.un.org/
###
Heartrending Gaza: Reporter breaks into tears live on air (VIDEO) (http://rt.com/news/174752-gaza-reporter-crying-broadcast/)
Published time: July 22, 2014 19:41
m_ayResJCmg
A reporter for Al Jazeera news channel broke into tears halfway through a television broadcast while relaying the horrific scenes and destruction he witnessed following over two weeks of Israeli shelling in Gaza.
The correspondent, who had just returned from Gaza's Shejaia neighborhood – which came under heavy Israeli bombardment on Sunday, leaving dozens dead – began speaking about what he and his TV crew witnessed. He stated that his team saw a lot of bodies, adding that the crew was in a state of shock.
However, as he was describing the “laying bodies,” he broke into tears. He tried to compose himself and continue, but subsequently walked off screen.
Tuesday saw the Gaza conflict move into its third week. According to the Gaza Health Ministry, the number of Palestinians killed has risen to 609 – the vast majority of whom are civilians.
Al Jazeera has claimed that its offices in Gaza were targeted by the Israel Defense Forces. One of the channel's correspondents reported that the building came under fire on Tuesday. According to staff members, the 11th floor of the bureau was hit by two Israeli bullets as a crew was preparing to broadcast live from the balcony, the Guardian reported.
However, a spokesman for the Israel Defense Forces said that no warning shots were fired, the Jerusalem Post reported. He could not confirm or deny whether indirect damage to the building occurred during the targeting of nearby military targets.
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BtJ8n5JCIAA76l1.jpg
Source (http://rt.com/news/174752-gaza-reporter-crying-broadcast/)
panopticon
23rd July 2014, 10:36
Israeli Colonel says killed boys on beach should have been seen by IDF.
###
Israeli troops should have been able to tell slain Gaza children not Hamas members, colonel says (http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-07-23/colonel-questions-how-children-could-be-killed-in-gaza-strike/5618990)
By Middle East correspondent Matt Brown, 23rd July 2014
http://www.abc.net.au/news/image/5619036-3x2-340x227.jpg
Aahed Bakr, the father of a young boy killed by a rocket strike while playing on a beach
An Israeli military spokesman says the Israeli Defence Force (IDF) should have been able to tell that four boys it killed on a Gaza beach last week were not Hamas operatives.
The four boys from the one extended family - Zacaria, Aahed Bakr Jr, Mohammed and Ismail - were killed by a rocket strike while they played.
"The IDF had a target, a Hamas terrorist target," Lieutenant Colonel Peter Lerner told the ABC's 7.30 program.
"We had intelligence pointing specifically to that location and we had the indication that the perpetrators were on the beach. We had a specific target indicating that they were supposed to be there.
"We had visual surveillance, clearly, to an extent that we should have been able to determine who was on the beach."
Lt Col Lerner did not provide detail about how long the boys were being observed or by what method.
"We need to determine what happened between the gathering of the intelligence and what happened that caused this unfortunate human tragedy," he said.
While the Israeli military continues its official investigation, the extended family of the four boys is devastated.
Father shares heartbreak of loss
Aahed Bakr, the father of Zacaria, still cannot comprehend what happened.
"I found my kids dismembered. Innocent kids dismembered – it was carnage," he told 7.30.
"I fainted. I couldn't understand. It looked like a lie or a movie scene. Even now I can't understand or believe they died."
Mr Bakr's wife, Um Ataf, is inconsolable and he admits that privately he, too, is struggling.
"I cry when I am on my own, but I don't like my wife and daughters to see me. Overnight I just think and remember what happened to them, my kids and the rest."
Mr Bakr is a fisherman and his family has a long and strong connection with the sea.
"Every day [the children] were going [to the beach] to play, to check the boats, to relax a bit, to see other fishermen, to play with other kids, to swim," he said.
"This is the only place where you can relax. Every day they went to the sea from morning until late afternoon."
Boys were playing hide and seek
http://www.abc.net.au/news/image/5619022-3x2-340x227.jpg
His son, Muntaser, Zacaria's brother, was at the beach that day with his four relatives.
They were among a line of small buildings and sheds on a break wall. It forms part of Gaza's harbour which on previous days had been hit by Israeli fire. The boys were playing hide and seek.
Muntaser remembers a round of the game had begun and one of the boys was among the sheds when they came under attack.
"We started calling him until the rocket hit him," Muntaser said.
"We ran away. I was running with them when they sent the second rocket."
A photographer captured images of the boys running for their lives.
"I lost my friends," Muntaser said. "I won't be able to play with anybody and I can't go to the port anymore."
He is powerless, but is desperate to be powerful.
"I say to the resistance, 'Don't be afraid, don't give up, don't do anything before taking revenge for my brother and my nephew and my two other cousins and take the revenge for the whole country ... and take revenge for the world and all the sad people with no home'."
In Gaza, Israel and Hamas are doing battle in a territory where half the population are children. Officials say at least 145 children have now been killed in the current conflict.
"It's a human tragedy," Lt Col Lerner said. "Children are not our targets. We do not target civilians. It defeats the object of our mission.
"Our mission is against the bad people who are striking Israel, who are launching rockets indiscriminately at our population, at Tel Aviv, at Jerusalem, at Haifa, at Be'er Sheva."
But that is cold comfort to Mr Bakr.
The Bakr boys were buried by the entrance to a simple cemetery near their home. Mr Bakr says the mourners were too afraid to dig the graves further into the cemetery, on a hill, in case they were seen by Israeli gunboats out at sea.
"No more," he said. "We can't understand what's happening around us. Every day there's a new massacre.
"It's really something my brain can't take anymore."
Source (http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-07-23/colonel-questions-how-children-could-be-killed-in-gaza-strike/5618990)
panopticon
23rd July 2014, 11:31
Head of the UN Human Rights Council, Navi Pillay, has said that 'There seems to be a strong possibility that international law has been violated, in a manner that could amount to war crimes' (source (http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-28437626)).
Yep, 650 dead in Palestine, most of whom were civilians, and the UN uses qualifiers like "strong possibility" and "could". Nothing like condemning the oppressors...
-- Pan
MorningFox
23rd July 2014, 11:52
http://i.imgur.com/Ka7s2wH.jpg
Realeyes
23rd July 2014, 11:54
I have just started to read this very important thread - thank you to every member who is updating it, I hope to get more time later to read more pages.
I just posted on another thread this post (not sure if this video link has already been posted here) that is also on the subject of Gaza where an ex Israeli soldier breaks his silence and explains what is really going on - Palestine is being used as a weapons testing laboratory! My heart sinks even further with what humans can do to their own kind.......... :sad::sorry:
http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?73109-Gaza-is-not-going-to-exist---&p=856708#post856708
panopticon
23rd July 2014, 13:16
One of the main sticking point in ceasefire negotiations is that Hamas wants border restrictions removed or at least lessened (particularly at the Rafah Crossing with Egypt).
Why is there a blockade and when was the last time there was free movement of people and goods in and out of Gaza?
First things first, we need to know where this all is so here's a map (courtesy of wikipedia) that shows the various crossing points on the Gaza border and the Salah al-Din Road (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salah_al-Din_Road) that is the main arterial road through Gaza:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/93/Gaza_Strip_map2.svg/489px-Gaza_Strip_map2.svg.png
Source (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Gaza_Strip_map2.svg)
A PDF with a slightly more detailed map, a bit of information about the crossings and general information about Gaza's residents (population, demographic, literacy) can be downloaded from Gisha Legal Centre here (http://www.gisha.org/UserFiles/File/publications/map-2013/map-english-2013.pdf) (3.2mb).
Now we have a reference point, here are a few images (courtesy of International Business Times) that show how population numbers versus casualties are centred and the newly enacted buffer zones surrounding Gaza (that increases the "restricted area" a further 1500 metres and total area of Gaza restricted by more than 40%):
26568
Source (http://www.ibtimes.com/118300-palestinian-civilians-displaced-gaza-situation-gaza-numbers-infographics-1635682)
From these images I hope it is easy to see why much of Gaza's population feels that it has nowhere to go to escape the IDF's assault. They are being shelled in the North, South and many points in between. Despite warnings from Israeli phone calls to leave their homes many Palestinians have nowhere to go. At latest report 118,000 persons are "living" in UN shelters (though many more are living with relatives after their homes have been destroyed).
Now think about that figure of 118,000 people for a second.
That is 6% of the entire population of Gaza living in UN shelters...
The UNRWA has reported that $115,000,000 (US) is needed to provide medical services, food and water to the 150,000 people requesting their assistance (source (http://www.unrwa.org/sites/default/files/gaza_flash_appeal2014.pdf)). Remember that the water infrastructure is not functioning in large areas of Gaza so potable water and water for sanitation purporses (ie to decrease risk of disease) is not available to much of the population.
Who is under siege Mr Kerry?
Anyway, one of the points of this post was to mention the difficulty the Gaza population has had in getting access to basic items. So why is the blockade of Gaza having such a bad effect on the population? The answer comes back to my old mantra: money, control and power. As Oxfam clearly states:
The blockade - now in place for seven years - has devastated Gaza's economy, left most people unable to leave Gaza, restricted people from essential services such as healthcare and education, and cut Palestinians off from each other.
More than 40% of people in Gaza - nearly 50% of youth - are now unemployed and 80% of people receive international aid. Many key industries, such as the construction industry, have been decimated as essential materials are not allowed into Gaza. Exports are currently at less than 3% of their pre-blockade levels, with the transfer of agricultural produce and other goods to the West Bank and exports to Israel entirely banned.
The blockade left people reliant on tunnels from Egypt to bring in goods. The Egyptian government's closure of these tunnels in mid-2013 has severely worsened the humanitarian situation in Gaza. Massive fuel shortages have led to daily power cuts of 12-16 hours - leaving hospitals, schools and small businesses struggling to keep going, and water and sanitation systems often failing.
Source (http://www.oxfam.org/en/emergencies/gaza)
As I said, it's all about money, control and power.
But, why is there a blockade?
That's fairly simple. The Israeli Government rightly says that some goods could be used to build rockets, tunnels or fortified bunkers by Hamas and the other militant groups/factions within Gaza. This is 100% accurate. Some goods may be able to be used to build bunkers, tunnels and rockets. Look at the above post where Netanyahu displayed the water pipe rocket for Ban Ki-Moon... Simply there is obviously a threat that some people may be able to make use of some items to build life threatening devices...
Does that justify virtually locking up the complete population? Depends on who you ask. If you're living in Gaza then probably no, in Israel territory near the Gaza border then probably yes. So, there's no simple answer but some of the restricted items that have been included over the years are just ridiculous (pasta? really? Must have had my chilli spagetti with jalapeno topping! Gotta keep up the vitamin C :p ). A background "cheat sheet" from Gisha is available here (http://www.gisha.org/UserFiles/File/publications/Info_Gaza_Eng.pdf) and a more detailed list of what was prohibited in May 2010, though not complete can be found here (http://gisha.org/UserFiles/File/HiddenMessages/ItemsGazaStrip060510.pdf).
The last time there was free movement of people and goods between Gaza & Egypt through the Rafah Border Crossing was back in early 2008 when Hamas demolished a section of the border wall with explosives. The "hole" was then widened with Front End Loaders and Bull Dozers.
It is estimated that for the few days the border was open somewhere between 200,000 and 700,000 Palestinians went to shop and visit relatives in Egypt (source (http://www.asianews.it/index.php?l=en&art=11345&size=A)). They bought food, fuel & generators (the power plant had shut down on January 20th), concrete, motorcycles, cigarettes and livestock (source (http://www.haaretz.com/print-edition/news/at-gaza-border-with-egypt-masses-make-reverse-exodus-into-sinai-1.237878)).
This all started on the 23rd January and Israel's response was to bomb Rafah and demand Egypt re-close the border. The border was full closed by February 2nd with the assistance of Hamas.
Did the open border lead to an increase in missile strikes on Israel? Referring again to the earlier graph of missiles launched from Gaza, it doesn't appear to have resulted in a massive increase. Matter of fact they seem to have dropped off to near zero with the late June 08 truce...
http://projectavalon.net/forum4/attachment.php?attachmentid=26525&d=1405946461
That is until November 4th when Israel launched a ground incursion into the Gaza suburb of Deir al-Balah (see map above) to demolish tunnels. Sound familiar?
After a moderately successful 4 month truce the IDF mount a ground incursion and next thing we know Hamas & co start firing rockets...
What a surprise. It's called provocation. What happens next?
Israel launched Operation Cast Lead...
But that's another story. ;)
-- Pan
panopticon
23rd July 2014, 13:34
I have just started to read this very important thread - thank you to every member who is updating it, I hope to get more time later to read more pages.
I just posted on another thread this post (not sure if this video link has already been posted here) that is also on the subject of Gaza where an ex Israeli soldier breaks his silence and explains what is really going on - Palestine is being used as a weapons testing laboratory! My heart sinks even further with what humans can do to their own kind.......... :sad::sorry:
http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?73109-Gaza-is-not-going-to-exist---&p=856708#post856708
Thanks for the video RealEyes. Your summary in the other thread is excellent.
Here's the video for those who are interested (I do suggest having a look at RealEyes summary as it is very good)
93hqlmrZKd8
-- Pan
panopticon
23rd July 2014, 14:17
Here is the list from Israel's Department of the Coordinator of Government Activities in the Territories titled: 'Restricted Import List Gaza Strip 2013 (http://www.cogat.idf.il/Sip_Storage/FILES/4/4014.pdf)'.
I tell you what, it would be a hard life being a panel beater, mechanic or in any form of construction...
###
Appendix A: Controlled Dual Use Items
1. Fertilizers or any mixture containing choleric potassium with concentrations greater than 5%.
2. Fibers or textiles containing carbon (carbon fibers or graphite fibers), including:
a. Chopped carbon fibers.
b. Carbon roving.
c. Carbon strand.
d. Carbon fabric tape.
3. Glass fiber-based raw materials, including:
a. Chopped glass fibers.
b. Glass roving
c. Glass strand.
d. Glass fabric tape.
e. S-glass.
f. E-glass.
4. Vessels.
5. Fibers or fabrics featuring polyethylene, also known as Dyneema.
6. Retro detection devices.
7. Gas tanks.
8. Drilling equipment.
9. Equipment for the production of water from drillings.
10. Vinyl esther resins.
11. Epoxy resins.
12. Hardeners for epoxy resins featuring chemical groups of durable or reliable types, including:
a. DETA – diethylenetriamine.
b. TETA – thiethylenetramine.
c. AEP – aminoethylpiperazine.
d. E-100-ethyleneamine.
e. Jeffamine T-403.
f. Catalyst 4,5,6,22,23,105, 140, 145,150,179,190,240.
g. D.E.H 20,24,25,26,29,52,58,80,81,82,83,84,85,87.
h. XZ 92740.00
13. Vinyl esther accelerants, including:
a. DMA-dimethylaniline.
b. Cobalt octoate.
c. MEKP – methylethyl keyone peroxide.
d. AAP – acetyl acetone peroxide.
e. CuHP – cumene hydroperoxide.
14. M or H type HTPB, hydroxyl-terminated polybutadiene.
15. Water disinfection materials – solutions with a concentration of over 11%.
16. TDI - Toluene diisocyanate.
Appendix B: Dual Use Items for Projects
1. Portland cement (bulk or bags or drums).
2. Natural aggregates, quarry aggregates and all foundation materials.
3. Prepared concrete.
4. Concrete elements and/or precast and/or tensed concrete.
5. Steel elements and/construction products.
6. Concrete for foundations and pillars of any diameter (including welded steel mesh).
7. Steel cables of any thickness.
8. Forms for construction elements of plastic or galvanized steel.
9. Industrial forms for concrete pouring.
10. Beams from composite materials or plastic with a panel thickness of 4mm and thicker.
11. Thermal insulation materials and/or products excluding roof tiles, plaster/mortar glue, mosaic tiles, building stone/coating stone/exterior stone.
12. Concrete blocks, silicate, Ytong or equivalent (of any thickness).
13. Building sealing materials or products which include Epoxy or polyurethane.
14. Asphalt and its components (bitumen, emulsion) in bulk or in packages of any sort.
15. Steel elements and/or steel working products for construction.
16. Elements and/or products for channeling and drainage from precast concrete with diameters of over 1 meter.
17. Trailers and/or shipping containers.
18. Vehicles except for personal vehicles (not including 4X4 vehicles), including construction vehicles.
Source (http://www.cogat.idf.il/Sip_Storage/FILES/4/4014.pdf)
panopticon
24th July 2014, 02:04
The way this "conflict" is being discussed has changed subtly in the MSM over the last week.
Now we have Reuters referring to Hamas, IJ and the other factions as "outgunned guerrillas" and there are increased reference/quotes of Hamas using the term "resistance" to describe themselves and the other factions.
This is a key reframing of the way in which people think about the assault and could lead to what is termed "cognitive dissonance (http://www.simplypsychology.org/cognitive-dissonance.html)" (the holding of conflicting beliefs by an individual leading to mental discomfort). One way in which people overcome cognitive dissonance is to seek out more information... That's how the mainstream media frames the way we view the world. To many they are the gate keepers of knowledge.
That's why this from Reuters is so interesting (remembering that to save money many major news agencies just quote Reuters stories directly without edit):
Israel launched its offensive on July 8 to halt rocket salvoes by Hamas and its allies, which have struggled under an Israeli-Egyptian economic blockade on Gaza and been angered by a crackdown on their supporters in the nearby occupied West Bank.
Source (http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/07/24/us-palestinians-israel-idUSKBN0FS04I20140724)
All these of course bring to mind the uncomfortable fact that the Israeli Government, through the IDF, is an occupying force. They are the oppressor in the West Bank and Gaza. To remind people of the history of this assault and not include the 3 Israeli-Jewish youths who were used to justify it is really very interesting. The entire build-up to the assault used their horrific deaths to justify it. That was the reason for Operation Brothers Keeper which lead to the rocket launch increase from Gaza. To have it no longer included their murders is astonishing and a blow to Israel's propaganda machine.
There is also a timely reminder of what this conflict is doing to Gaza's youth:
"This is not war, this is annihilation," said 17-year-old Hamed Ayman. "I once dreamt of becoming a doctor. Today I am homeless. They should watch out for what I could become next."
Source (http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/07/24/us-palestinians-israel-idUSKBN0FS04I20140724)
At news of the UN Human Rights Council's saying that there were grounds for an investigation into Israel's human rights abuse of civilians in Gaza and the West Bank Israeli Justice Minister Tzipi Livni said on Facebook: "Get Lost".
Netanyahu was a bit more wordy but said essentially the same thing:
"The decision today by the HRC is a travesty," he said in a statement. "The HRC should be launching an investigation into Hamas's decision to turn hospitals into military command centres, use schools as weapons depots and place missile batteries next to playgrounds, private homes and mosques."
To quote a well known saying: Two wrongs don't make a right.
-- Pan
panopticon
24th July 2014, 09:00
News report from Gaza by Jon Snow (Channel 4 UK)
4z4TvDbffI0
-- Pan
panopticon
24th July 2014, 12:53
The UNRWA is reporting that the humanitarian crisis in Gaza is getting worse...
141,338 displaced in 83 UNRWA shelters.
The UNRWA has also reported direct shelling of 3 refugee shelters by Israel over the last 2 days. Damage has also been reported to 84 UNRWA installations have also been damaged (by whom unknown at this time). -- Chris Gunness (https://twitter.com/ChrisGunness) UNRWA Spokesperson
At 0745 y'day morning UNRWA Girl’s School in Deir Al Balah, central #Gaza (sheltering 1,500) took a hit from Israeli fire, 5 injured
Source (https://twitter.com/ChrisGunness/status/492235293546651649)
3 UNRWA teachers have been killed in the last 24 hours by Israeli shelling.
UNRWA Website:
http://www.unrwa.org/
-- Pan
panopticon
24th July 2014, 13:10
Really good article from Haaretz that describes the problems faced by Hamas in negotiating a ceasefire with Israel, Egypt, PA and the US... The paying of municipal workers and public servants in Gaza, after months of no money being allowed through by Israel and the US, is a definite sign that things might be taking a turn for the better. Hopefully it's true.
###
Hamas' dilemma: Trust Egypt's staged truce initiative or demand advance commitments (http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/.premium-1.606952)
By Zvi Bar'el, 24th July 2014
http://www.haaretz.com/polopoly_fs/1.582645.1396095634!/image/4063842737.jpg_gen/derivatives/landscape_640/4063842737.jpg
The dilemma facing Hamas is whether to trust Egypt, Israel and the U.S. that they will agree to discuss the opening of Gaza after a cease-fire goes into effect or to insist on receiving a detailed commitment in advance.
If the first sign of a breakthrough to a cease fire can be sighted, it is the decision of Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas to pay the salaries of Hamas officials working in the Gaza Strip. Based on reports in media outlets that represent Hamas, today Palestinian banks are expected to start paying the salaries, and the banks, unusually, will work even on Saturday to complete the work. The money will be paid by the banks from their deposits and the rest will be paid by the Palestinian Authority after it receives its transfer of funds from Israel.
This is an important development, since the nonpayment of the Hamas salaries was one of the central reasons for the unrest in Gaza, and portrayed Hamas as not having failed to get anything out of the reconciliation with Fatah. This led to the insistent demand by Hamas that the payment of salaries be included in the conditions for a cease-fire agreement. As a result, a number of Palestinian officials said they expect a cease-fire to be reached by the Id al-Fitr holiday on Monday, which marks the end of the month of Ramadan.
Still, the payment of the salaries may be a necessary but not sufficient condition for Hamas’ agreement to a cease-fire. Hamas’ main demand is for the ending of the closure of Gaza — opening the Rafah crossing with Egypt and removing the naval blockade along the coast, which would allow fishermen to go back to work.
The dilemma facing Hamas now is whether to trust Egypt, Israel and the United States that they will agree to discuss the matter after a cease-fire goes into effect, as the Egyptian proposal states — or to insist on receiving a detailed commitment to the opening of Gaza as a precondition for the cease-fire. This is also why Hamas wants to involve as many Arab countries as possible in formulating the “corrected” version of the offer, so the negotiation of the lifting of the blockade of Gaza does not just remain an unfulfilled promise.
On Wednesday, the ruler of Qatar, Sheikh Tamim Al Thani, arrived in Saudi Arabia to meet with Jordan’s King Abdullah as part of this effort. This visit is out of the ordinary, given the deep crisis in relations between the two countries for the past few months, but it seems American pressure on Qatar and Hamas’ demand for further guarantees led to the royal visit.
Qatar’s goal is to cause Saudi Arabia to pressure Egypt to change its cease-fire proposal in such a way that Hamas can accept it without looking as if it has surrendered. There will be a diplomatic price for this that Qatar must pay in its relations with the rest of the Gulf states, but if the Qatari persuasion works, Hamas could see it as an appropriate solution to its demand for a guarantee that talks about opening Gaza will take place after the cease-fire begins. Postponing the discussion of these issues until after the cease fire, while relying on the Arab guarantees, would make Hamas an equal partner in the negotiations and undercut Abbas’ authority — while not in any way diminishing the status of Egypt, which holds the keys in its hand to the opening and closing of the Rafah crossing.
Source (http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/.premium-1.606952)
panopticon
24th July 2014, 13:41
For those who might be interested in the group Anarchists Against The Wall mentioned in Eran Efrati's presentation their website is:
http://www.awalls.org/
The Boycotts, Divestment and Sanctions (BDS) Movement Efrati mentioned can be found here:
http://www.bdsmovement.net/
Two other groups that have been around for a while:
http://www.activestills.org/
http://jewishvoiceforpeace.org/
Doh! Forgot to link with Eran Efrati & Maya Wind's website:
http://www.soldierandrefusenik.com/
-- Pan
Observer1964
24th July 2014, 13:42
jhEtCL_zkwk
panopticon
24th July 2014, 13:47
Another Israeli massacre is being reported at Beit Hanoun (a designated UNRWA shelter whose co-ordinates had been provided to the IDF).
Reports are that at least 7 civilians are dead and 150 injured (Maan news, article below, is reporting 17 dead & 200 injured).
-- Pan
###
Dozens feared dead as Israel shells UN shelter in Beit Hanoun (http://maannews.net/ENG/ViewDetails.aspx?ID=715952)
GAZA CITY (Ma'an) -- Israeli forces have shelled a UN school in Beit Hanoun, with at least 17 dead and 200 injured as many more are feared killed among the hundreds who had taken shelter there with Israeli coordination.
The shelling of the school, which is affiliated with the UN's Palestine refugee agency UNRWA, is the fourth time in two days that Israeli forces have bombed schools serving as shelters for the displaced in the besieged Gaza Strip.
A local radio station quoted an eyewitness as saying that immediately before the shelling, a man who introduced himself as a Red Cross official had asked displaced people seeking shelter there to gather in the yard because they would be evacuated to another place.
An UNRWA official intervened when he saw people gathering and argued that there has been no coordination with the UNRWA and told people to go back to their rooms. During the argument, Israeli artillery shells started to hit the school.
UNRWA spokesman Chris Gunness tweeted in response to the attack that the "Precise co-ordinates of the UNRWA shelter in Beit Hanoun had been formally given to the Israeli army."
He added: "Over the course of the day, UNRWA tried 2 coordinate with the Israeli Army a window for civilians 2 leave & it was never granted."
Spokesman for the Ministry of Health Ashraf al-Qidra said that ambulances have started to evacuated victims to three hospitals in the northern Gaza Strip in addition to al-Shifa hospital in Gaza City.
He confirmed that so far 13 deaths have been counted, but more were expected.
An Israeli military spokeswoman had no information on the strike.
An eyewitness said that displaced people were sitting in the front yard when Israeli artillery shells started to hit them. Another eyewitness said they saw five shells hitting the school.
Earlier in the day, Gunness said on Twitter that three teachers for the UN agency had been killed, marking the first deaths among UNRWA workers.
"The 1st UNRWA fatalities in #Gaza; 3 teachers. 2 women, 1 man killed along with family members by incoming fire. 2 women while in residences," Gunness tweeted.
"Losing a colleague is hard to bear. Losing a colleague in these circumstances is unbearable."
'Stop bombing civilians'
The attacks brought Thursday's total number of deaths to at least 80, as dozens of Palestinians have been killed as Israel continued its bombardment from land, air, and sea.
More than 760 Palestinians have been killed since Israel launched its attack on the Gaza Strip 17 days ago, the majority since the ground began last week.
Gaza-based rights groups have said that the vast majority of those killed are civilians, including nearly 200 children.
International medical organization Doctors without Borders called on Israel to "stop bombing civilians trapped in the sealed-off Gaza strip, and to respect the safety of medical workers and health facilities" on Monday, as it said that the majority of those arriving in emergency rooms where its doctors were working were women and children.
"While official claims that the objective of the ground offensive is to destroy tunnels into Israel, what we see on the ground is that bombing is indiscriminate and that those who die are civilians," said Nicolas Palarus a field coordinator for the group in Gaza.
The group also said that Israel had directly targeted an ambulance with an air strike, despite the fact that they had been guaranteed movement.
Earlier on Thursday, four bodies were pulled from the rubble of buildings in Khuzaa, where dozens were killed in heavy Israeli shelling over night.
The bodies were later identified as Rasmi Abu Reida, Muhammad Abu Yousif , Ahmad Qudeih and Rami Qudeih.
Israeli airstrikes also killed seven Palestinians in western Kkhan Younis. Gaza Ministry of Health spokesman Al-Qidra said that an airstrike killed Ahmad Abdul-Karim, Ahmad Hasan and Muhammad Ismail Khader there.
He added that Ahmad al-Mashhadi and Ahmad Khadir were killed in another raid on Khan Younis.
Earlier, he announced that bodies of Anas Akram Skafi, 18, and his twin brother Saad were removed from rubble in Shujaiyya, the site of the killing of nearly 70 Palestinians in one day over the weekend.
Emergency teams on Thursday also managed to remove the body of a dead woman, identified as Alal Khalil Abu Ayda, and three injured people from the rubble of a home belonging to the al-Bardini family which Israeli missiles demolished earlier in the city of al-Zahraa in the central Gaza Strip.
Al-Qidra said earlier that five Palestinian men were killed by two separate Israeli airstrikes on a motorcycle and a tuk-tuk (auto-rickshaw) in Abasan al-Kabira east of Khan Younis.
Medical sources identified four of the victims as Nabil Shihdah Qudeih, Nadir Suleiman Qudeih, Bakir Fathi Qudeih, and Ismail Hasan Abu Rjeila.
Two children were injured in Gaza City after an Israeli airstrike hit home of al-Ghusein family.
Earlier, a man was injured as a result of an Israeli airstrike on home of Saadi Daloul in Salah al-Din Street in the central Gaza Strip.
Source (http://maannews.net/ENG/ViewDetails.aspx?ID=715952)
panopticon
24th July 2014, 15:14
IDF Spokesperson Lt Col Lerner is reporting that IDF sensors indicate that the missiles that hit the UNRWA school were fired 'from Gaza'.
Does that mean that the IDF is saying it wasn't fired by the IDF? After all the IDF is in Gaza? Word play around a tragedy? :suspicious:
Gunness wrote:
Also being reported there were Hamas rockets falling in Beit Hanoun today. Civilians yet again caught between two sides paying an unimaginable price.
I wonder if the other 3 UNRWA sites hit by missiles over the last 2 days will be attributed to 'from Gaza' by the IDF?
Yet another massacre where civilians suffer the consequences.
If Israel had granted an humanitarian ceasefire then the refugees at Beit Hanoun wouldn't have been there...
No where is safe in Gaza.
-- Pan
Tesseract
25th July 2014, 00:47
Very large protests going on in the West Bank as the death toll in Gaza reaches 800, the IDF has opened fire with live ammunition on the protesters. In a victory to those on the streets, Al-aqsa Mosque has apparently been rid of the IDF rats, and multiple check-points are being confronted by angry citizens in their 1000s. Many injuries and at least two deaths so far. Rumours that PA has called for 3rd Intifada (hard to believe).
Where is the outcry from Western leaders about the shooting of civilian protesters? Where are the neo-liberals who so openly supported Arab uprisings elsewhere? I think they drowned in their own hypocrisy.
bql-aaMSYuc
SilentFeathers
25th July 2014, 00:52
I'm having a very hard time trying to find words to say.....The leaders of the world are silent because they are not losing any money over this slaughter.....
Snowflower
25th July 2014, 01:26
They are silent because they are psychopaths and it doesn't occur to them that killing children is a problem.
panopticon
25th July 2014, 03:21
Evidently Kerry has proposed a ceasefire agreement that is being considered by Hamas etc:
1. A one-week, temporary cease-fire, during with Israel Defense Forces troops will not leave the Gaza Strip entirely and will continue to locate and destroy Hamas tunnels.
2. During this cease-fire, Israel and Hamas will begin negotiations on a more permanent arrangement, with Egyptian mediation. The Palestinian Authority will participate in these talks.
3. The United States, the UN secretary-general and the European Union will provide guarantees to both sides that the negotiations will deal with the issues important to them – for Israel, disarming Gaza of its rockets and tunnels, and for Hamas, ending the blockade of Gaza and repairing the damage the Strip has suffered.
Source (http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/.premium-1.607170)
Now it comes down to whether Hamas & co view that the EU & UN can be trusted (everybody knows that the US can't be and Israel has said they would reduce the blockade etc before and haven't). Also, how is it a ceasefire if 'Israel Defense Forces troops will not leave the Gaza Strip entirely and will continue to locate and destroy Hamas tunnels'?
It's as if they're saying: "Fight you bastards fight, I hate peace!"
Evidently Kerry has been a very busy lil camper trying to get some sort of ceasefire agreement... He's spent quite a while "negotiating" with Netanyahu & Abbas but has also been burning the midnight oil (watch out Peter!) and phone credit/political capital:
Kerry also spoke with Turkish Foreign Minister Ahmet Davutoglu, who is also in contact with senior Hamas officials; with Egyptian Foreign Minister Sameh Shoukry; and with Jordanian Foreign Minister Nasser Judeh. Kerry also met with UN Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon and spoke by phone with the foreign ministers of Germany, Britain and France and with the European Union’s top foreign policy official, Catherine Ashton, to settle the issue of the international guarantees.
Maybe the US should put the same blockade on Israel as Israel/Egypt put on Gaza... At least we can be fairly sure the Arab States in the region would agree :tape2:
BTW good to see that the MSM in Australia has been reporting that Israel has been bombing UN facilities over the last few days (at least the ABC has). Also that the issues that Hamas etc are concerned about, in particular the blockade/siege, has been getting reported on. About time.
-- Pan
panopticon
25th July 2014, 04:25
Don't forget that Mohammed Abu Khdeir was burnt alive by Israeli Settlers. These are the "fringe" groups that have moved into the mainstream in Israel.
In a recent interview (http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/interview-with-former-israeli-security-chief-yuval-diskin-a-982094.html) the former director of Israel's internal security service (Shin Bet), Yuval Diskin, was asked whether the settlements had become irreversible and whether that would make the two-state solution impossible:
We are currently very near this point of no return. The number of settlers is increasing and already a solution to this problem is almost impossible, from a purely logistical standpoint, even if the political will were there. And this government is building more than any government has built in the past.
Source (http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/interview-with-former-israeli-security-chief-yuval-diskin-a-982094.html)
Diskin went on to make the observation that Palestinians 'will never accept the status quo of the Israeli occupation. When people lose hope for an improvement of their situation, they radicalize. That is the nature of human beings. The Gaza Strip is the best example of that' (source (http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/interview-with-former-israeli-security-chief-yuval-diskin-a-982094.html)).
Or as Gerald Celente is want to say: 'When people lose everything and have nothing left to lose - they lose it.'
-- Pan
Pris
25th July 2014, 04:59
I've never 'understood' war. I've never 'understood' 'taking sides'. All it's ever been to me is nonsense.
The concept of a 'nation' is abstract and only seems to serve a negative agenda so I do not identify with it.
'Culture' is easily manipulated by the few to control the masses so I am wary of it.
I do not think we are a competitive race. The 'us vs them' ideology has been artificially instilled upon us by the few who wish to control us. I sincerely feel our natural state is cooperative.
The land was here before we all came along. We don't 'own' anything on this planet or anywhere else. We need to learn to share. Anyone who claims to 'own' anything is dangerous and completely delusional.
The real world is a world of abundance. We have fabricated a world of lack and limitation on this world of abundance. We must stop using money (the greatest tool of enslavement) and learn to share everything equally and treat everyone with love and respect -- while remaining guardians and responsible caretakers of this beautiful planet.
John Lennon said it best:
Imagine there is no heaven
It's easy if you try
No hell below us
Above us only sky
Imagine all the people
Living for today
Imagine there's no countries
It isn't hard to do
Nothing to kill or die for
And no religion, too
Imagine all the people
Living life in peace
You may say I'm a dreamer
But I'm not the only one
I hope someday you will join us
And the world will be as one
Imagine no possessions
I wonder if you can
No need for greed or hunger
A brotherhood of man
Imagine all the people
Sharing all the world
You, you may say I'm a dreamer
But I'm not the only one
I hope someday you will join us
And the world will live as one
panopticon
25th July 2014, 05:13
John Pilger's 2002 Documentary 'Palestine Is Still The Issue'
http://vimeo.com/17401477
-- Pan
panopticon
25th July 2014, 06:26
United Nations Office for the Coordination of Humanitarian Affairs, Occupied Palestinian Territory: Gaza Emergency latest report.
789 Palestinians killed, including at least 578 civilians, of whom 185 are children and 93 are women
37 Israelis killed, including two civilians and 35 soldiers.
42 Gaza families have lost at least three or more members in the same incident, totalling 253 fatalities.
149,000 Displaced hosted in 83 UNRWA schools
44% Of Gaza within a three kilometer wide strip declared as a ‘No-go zone’
http://www.ochaopt.org/documents/ocha_opt_sitrep_25_07_2014.pdf
Source (http://www.ochaopt.org/documents/ocha_opt_sitrep_25_07_2014.pdf)
panopticon
25th July 2014, 06:51
Statement by the UNRWA Commissioner-General Pierre Krahenbuhl on the deaths and injuries caused to civilians at the Beit Hanoun UNRWA facility yesterday.
http://www.unrwa.org/newsroom/official-statements/statement-unrwa-commissioner-general-pierre-kr%C3%A4henb%C3%BChl
-- Pan
panopticon
25th July 2014, 06:56
One of the more powerful images I've seen in tribute to the four young Palestinian boys slaughtered on the beach by Israeli Navy shelling:
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BtV2P8CCQAAwgED.jpg
-- Pan
panopticon
25th July 2014, 08:18
10,000+ Palestinians protesting in West Bank against the Israeli Governments assault on Gaza (reported by AFP (https://twitter.com/AFP/status/492574040419082242))
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BtX5elGCcAEkM-k.jpg
-- Pan
panopticon
25th July 2014, 08:34
Israel's new President, Reuven Rivlin, does not believe in a 2-State solution (article from Haaretz 2010)...
Reuven Rivlin: The land is not divisible (http://www.haaretz.com/weekend/magazine/reuven-rivlin-the-land-is-not-divisible-1.302140)
-- Pan
panopticon
25th July 2014, 09:13
If you only watch one news broadcast about the background of Israeli-Gaza-Fatah-Hamas etc then take 6 minutes and watch this.
Nathan Thrall covers everything I've been nattering about concerning the last 2 years in 5 minutes and couldn't make it any plainer.
Report is viewable here: Analyst: Gaza Conflict Was Foreseeable (http://edition.cnn.com/video/data/2.0/video/bestoftv/2014/07/24/exp-analyst-israel-gaza-conflict-cause.cnn.html)
In the video Nathan Thrall refers to a report he and his associates produced call The Next Round in Gaza. It is downloadable from here:
http://www.crisisgroup.org/en/regions/middle-east-north-africa/israel-palestine/149-the-next-round-in-gaza.aspx
-- Pan
naste.de.lumina
25th July 2014, 11:05
Israel did not like the official statement from the Brazilian Foreign Ministry on the conflict in Gaza,
and reacted by saying that Brazil is an insignificant country, a political 'dwarf'.
http://beforeitsnews.com/alternative/2014/07/is-brazil-preparing-itself-to-break-off-its-ties-with-israel-2999318.html
panopticon
25th July 2014, 11:20
The strength and will of the Palestinians who rallied at the Qalandia checkpoint in the Occupied West Bank (http://www.aljazeera.com/news/middleeast/2014/07/israel-kills-palestinian-west-bank-clashes-2014724213831750431.html) has to be admired. The difference between them and the IDF is monumental and yet they stood against their oppressors to say "no".
That difference is epitomised in photos of their "ammunition" as supplied by Jonathan Miller (https://twitter.com/millerC4).
The Palestinian Ammunition used yesterday:
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BtYU71wIIAAp2U_.jpg
The Israeli Ammunition used yesterday:
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BtYU1k9IcAEODRv.jpg
Report from AJ on this rally of solidarity:
w3UYFwS8zuM
-- Pan
panopticon
25th July 2014, 11:54
Israel did not like the official statement from the Brazilian Foreign Ministry on the conflict in Gaza,
and reacted by saying that Brazil is an insignificant country, a political 'dwarf'.
http://beforeitsnews.com/alternative/2014/07/is-brazil-preparing-itself-to-break-off-its-ties-with-israel-2999318.html
Yeah, it's interesting that the countries taking political action are Brazil & Chile...
Of course Venezuela and Bolivia haven't thought much of Israel's treatment of the Palestinian's for quite a while and can't do much cause they don't really have relations with Israel. Maduro made a statement (http://www.presstv.ir/detail/2014/07/21/372151/israel-committing-genocide-in-gaza/) condemning Israel and said that Venezuela:
rejects the cynical campaigns trying to condemn both parties equally, when it is clear you cannot morally compare occupied and massacred Palestine with the occupying state, Israel, which also possesses military superiority and acts on the margins of international law.
I've seen numerous messages in my virtual travels saying things along the lines of "Allende Lives" or "The Spirit Of Allende Survives" because of the Chile reaction (http://www.worldbulletin.net/haber/140840/chile-to-suspend-trade-talks-with-israel-over-gaza-bombing).
Also Ecuador withdrew it's Ambassador (https://www.greenleft.org.au/node/56923) on the 18th.
-- Pan
panopticon
25th July 2014, 12:55
Haaretz is reporting that Kerry is trying to get a ceasefire agreement announced in the coming hours (source (http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/.premium-1.607222)).
Evidently there is to be a press conference in Cairo with Kerry announcing something or other...
Scattered reports that Hamas will not agree to Israeli troops remaining in Gaza blowing up tunnels and performing security manoeuvres...
-- Pan
panopticon
25th July 2014, 14:03
The press conference has been re-scheduled to 8:30 pm Cairo local time (so about 4 and a half hours from now).
-- Pan
panopticon
25th July 2014, 16:21
Interesting article by Rebecca L. Stein titled 'How Israel militarized social media':
http://mondoweiss.net/2014/07/israel-militarized-social.html
Also a Policy Brief from Crisis Group (14th July) talking about the Hamas decision process after they were forced into saying they supported the kidnapping of the Israeli-Jewish youths and continued denial by Hamas of being behind it (pg 5-6):
http://www.crisisgroup.org/~/media/Files/Middle%20East%20North%20Africa/Israel%20Palestine/b039-gaza-and-israel-new-obstacles-new-solutions.pdf
Finally an article from Haaretz titled 'Israel's State Comptroller probing steps taken to counter Hamas tunnel threat' which indicates that an audit of the Gaza tunnel system and method to detect/control it had been initiated months ago. This may be a contributing factor in the launching of a ground assault. I wonder whose job was on the line where? As one report I've read indicated that an IDF official was shocked at the extent of the tunnel system remarking that it "doubled the size of the Strip".
http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/israel-gaza-conflict-2014/1.607033
-- Pan
Israel did not like the official statement from the Brazilian Foreign Ministry on the conflict in Gaza,
and reacted by saying that Brazil is an insignificant country, a political 'dwarf'.
http://beforeitsnews.com/alternative/2014/07/is-brazil-preparing-itself-to-break-off-its-ties-with-israel-2999318.html
Israel is the SIZE OF NEW JERSEY, USA. Put this VERY CLEARLY in perspective.
BeeBee started saying in his psyops campaign, imagine, (%#%^$#^%$#) IMAGINE the US is being attacked, from NY to Colorado, to DC.. scaling up the "perceived" viewpoint that this "country" is significant. PSYOPS.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2EITqNY-fLQ
the statement is clearly insane designed to elicit sympathy.
comparison size:
israel blues spec compared to Brazil
http://www.akhlah.com/images/israel/size/brazil_israel.gif
israel and New Jersey comparison size:
http://www.iris.org.il/images/new_jersey.gif
Brazil is the world's sixth wealthiest economy. It is also the largest country in area and population in Latin America and the Caribbean.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2078596/Brazil-overtakes-UK-sixth-biggest-economy-Britain-falls-South-American-nation-time.html
Britain has been deposed by Brazil as the sixth largest economy in the world, latest figures show.
In a dramatic illustration of changing global economic fortunes, the UK has fallen behind a South American nation for the first time.
The figures, from the Centre for Economic and Business Research’s annual world economic league table, show Britain is now the seventh richest country in the world.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_Israel
As of 2012, Israel ranks 26th in Global Competitiveness Report by World Economic Forum, and 16th among 187 world nations on the UN's Human Development Index.
It's claim to fame is the providing to the world WEAPONS SYSTEMS for highly refined killing methods, advanced motion detection system, highly dangerous drugs, cut diamonds, jewelry, integrated circuits, printing machinery, and telecommunications equipment.
It relies on subsidies from US and Britain. The United States is Israel's largest trading partner.
Israel is one of the world's major exporters of military equipment, accounting for 10% of the world total in 2007. Three Israeli companies were listed on the 2010 Stockholm International Peace Research Institute index of the world's top 100 arms-producing and military service companies: Elbit Systems, Israel Aerospace Industries and RAFAEL.
The Defense industry in Israel is a strategically important sector and a large employer within the country. It is also a major player in the global arms market and is the 11th largest arms exporter in the world as of 2012.
If you want the best bombs, contact your favorite Israeli weapons broker. He will get you such a deal. Clearly a weapons broker wants to be the best that there is.
ref: http://www.jpost.com/Defense/Israel-among-top-arms-exporters-and-importers Jerusalem Post - Israel signs arms transfer agreements worth $12.9 billion, ranking it 8th among worlds biggest arms suppliers. Peace, ROFL, they are not about peace.
ref: http://www.sipri.org/research/armaments/production/Top100
panopticon
25th July 2014, 17:54
Scattered reports (unconfirmed) that Israeli Cabinet has rejected the ceasefire plan proposed by Kerry.
Hamas evidently was reportedly only concerned that Israel might back out of deal (wanted International guarantees) and that IDF troops would be left in Gaza...
I smell something strange here. Looks a bit to me like a really complex double bluff being set-up but maybe I'm to tired (4 am) to look at it properly...
All I know is 2 Israeli media stations are reporting that the Israeli Cabinet have rejected the ceasefire proposal because it favoured Hamas too much...
-- Pan
Update: Reuters have now also said the same thing and anytime now the BBC will jump on board... Reminds me of the last announcement of a "ceasefire".
And...
AFP & AJ are also reporting the same.
Oh and now the Israeli Cabinet is going back in to have further discussions...
Wonder what the Hamas position is because there's been no further leaks other than that the Gaza Hamas officials had been reported as having accepted it...
brenie
25th July 2014, 19:17
panopticon, thanks for that tears too my eyes. Someone else said today re: the conflict, "ich ine Palastinion" The whole world should be ashamed to allow this evil.
Regards, Brenie01
panopticon
25th July 2014, 19:46
So, no 7 day ceasefire, yes to 12 hour ceasefire that Kerry seems to dream will magically extend all by itself. :flypig:
Kerry also said that no proposal was formally presented to Israel (no it was an imaginary proposal made in the land of buttercups and blue birds -- idgit) and Ban said that the occupation must end (duh)...
In other words 30 minute + news conference that said nothing. :yuck:
Meanwhile, UNRWA says that there are now 160,000 people requiring emergency housing etc from them...
Fuel is reportedly almost out for the Power Plant (that provides electricity) and potable water is a rare commodity.
Protests continue in the West Bank where there have been at least 4 Palestinians killed today.
And on an unrelated but equally alarming note...
The first ebola death has been recorded in the Nigerian capital of Lagos (population 21 million). After getting off his flight from Liberia's capital of Monrovia a '40-year-old Liberian civil servant, collapsed on arrival in Nigeria's main airport on Sunday' (source (http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jul/25/first-case-ebola-lagos-nigeria?CMP=twt_gu)).
-- Pan
Inaiá
25th July 2014, 20:26
Israel did not like the official statement from the Brazilian Foreign Ministry on the conflict in Gaza,
and reacted by saying that Brazil is an insignificant country, a political 'dwarf'.
http://beforeitsnews.com/alternative/2014/07/is-brazil-preparing-itself-to-break-off-its-ties-with-israel-2999318.html
Hi Naste!
I just posted something in another thread (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?73249-Israel-Deliberately-Targeting-Children-Whole-Families-Too-Many-Dead-Too-Quickly-to-Count&p=857707&viewfull=1#post857707)about Brazil and Israel. I had not seen this post of yours... or Bob's. Although our posts bring the same subject, i think mine would fit in this thread too, so i'm copying it below. If it doesn't fit, Mods, please make yourselves at home.
why are no governments standing up for us?"
Yes, why? I've not heard even one government speak out against it, means the world really wants this war ...or rather this killing. The world wants this, not just Israel otherwise some country would have said something by now.
All but a handful of countries around the world have a Jewish owned Central Bank. These Oligarchs impose Jewish security at the highest levels of the Nations government. This is how the world is managed, in secret.
Only one game plan. Agenda 21 with Masters of Jews and Slaves of Gentiles (everyone else).
Hello, people.
This pasts days (23/07/2014) Brazil has positioned itself against the attacks of Israel to Gaza, considering the "unproportional use of force" "unacceptable". The embassador of Brazil in Tel Aviv was called back to the country in order to be consulted by the govern. Israel reacted to Brazil's positioning in a very peculiar way: they said that it was irrelevant, that the country was a "diplomatic dwarf" (sic).
Ok. I'll say it again: a "diplomatic dwarf". I would say that that's a very mature statement to be made by a country that's being called attention by the killing of hundreds of inocent lives. :blink: :tsk:.
We are suporting Gaza here, people.
Here goes an newspaper article about Brazil's and Israel's positioning (translated by google translator and me). Before that, i'll just mention that, on other ocasions, Brazil has already put itself against the attacks made by Hamas extremists against Israel. We know violence is no solution.
Author: Folhapress 07/23/2014 21:30
"Brazil thickens criticism of Israeli action and spares Hamas
In his most emphatic statement from the beginning of the Israeli operation in Gaza, the Brazilian government said on Wednesday (23) it considers "unacceptable" what he called "disproportionate use of force" by Israel.
Since March 8, Israeli forces attack Palestinian territory in an attempt to dismantle the radical Islamic group Hamas. According to sources in Gaza, in all, 695 Palestinians have died. On the Israeli side, there were 30 military and two civilians deaths.
In a statement, the Brazilian Foreign Ministry said Brasília called for consultations its ambassador in Tel Aviv - which, in diplomatic language, is considered a rebuke.
The text also "reaffirms" the "call for an immediate ceasefire between the parties."
There is no reference in the statement to rockets fired by Hamas into Israel. This marks a major change in relation to a statement on the 17th, in wich the ministry "also" stated Israeli bombing and attack from Gaza.
In that time,, the Foreign Ministry also expressed "solidarity" with the victims "in Palestine and Israel's ally", but now it only mentions the "high number of civilian casualties, including women and children" left by Israeli attacks.
The communiqué justifies with the escalation of violence the vote by Brazil in favor of the resolution of the Human Rights Council of the UN wich approved , also on this Wednesday,, the opening of an investigation to determine whether Israel committed war crimes in Gaza.
The resolution was approved by 29 of the 47 countries present. The U.S., Israel's ally, were the only ones against. There were abstentions by 17 countries, mostly European.".
The original article is here (http://www.correiodoestado.com.br/noticias/brasil-engrossa-critica-a-acao-de-israel-e-poupa-o-hamas_222874/).
About the "diplomatic dwarf" (sic) :blink:, there's some information here (http://www.correiodoestado.com.br/noticias/se-ha-algum-anao-diplomatico-nao-e-o-brasil-diz-ministro_222961/).
Inaiá
naste.de.lumina
25th July 2014, 20:54
Israel did not like the official statement from the Brazilian Foreign Ministry on the conflict in Gaza,
and reacted by saying that Brazil is an insignificant country, a political 'dwarf'.
http://beforeitsnews.com/alternative/2014/07/is-brazil-preparing-itself-to-break-off-its-ties-with-israel-2999318.html
Hi Naste!
I just posted something in another thread (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?73249-Israel-Deliberately-Targeting-Children-Whole-Families-Too-Many-Dead-Too-Quickly-to-Count&p=857707&viewfull=1#post857707)about Brazil and Israel. I had not seen this post of yours... or Bob's. Although our posts bring the same subject, i think mine would fit in this thread too, so i'm copying it below. If it doesn't fit, Mod's, please make yourself at home.
why are no governments standing up for us?"
Yes, why? I've not heard even one government speak out against it, means the world really wants this war ...or rather this killing. The world wants this, not just Israel otherwise some country would have said something by now.
All but a handful of countries around the world have a Jewish owned Central Bank. These Oligarchs impose Jewish security at the highest levels of the Nations government. This is how the world is managed, in secret.
Only one game plan. Agenda 21 with Masters of Jews and Slaves of Gentiles (everyone else).
Hello, people.
This pasts days (23/07/2014) Brazil has positioned itself against the attacks of Israel to Gaza, considering the "unproportional use of force" "unacceptable". The embassador of Brazil in Tel Aviv was called back to the country in order to be consulted by the govern. Israel reacted to Brazil's positioning in a very peculiar way: they said that it was irrelevant, that the country was a "diplomatic dwarf" (sic).
Ok. I'll say it again: a "diplomatic dwarf". I would say that that's a very mature statement to be made by a country that's being called attention by the killing of hundreds of inocent lives. :blink: :tsk:.
We are suporting Gaza here, people.
Here goes an newspaper article about Brazil's and Israel's positioning (translated by google translator and me). Before that, i'll just mention that, on other ocasions, Brazil has already put itself against the attacks made by Hamas extremists against Israel. We know violence is no solution.
Author: Folhapress 07/23/2014 21:30
"Brazil thickens criticism of Israeli action and spares Hamas
In his most emphatic statement from the beginning of the Israeli operation in Gaza, the Brazilian government said on Wednesday (23) it considers "unacceptable" what he called "disproportionate use of force" by Israel.
Since March 8, Israeli forces attack Palestinian territory in an attempt to dismantle the radical Islamic group Hamas. According to sources in Gaza, in all, 695 Palestinians have died. On the Israeli side, there were 30 military and two civilians deaths.
In a statement, the Brazilian Foreign Ministry said Brasília called for consultations its ambassador in Tel Aviv - which, in diplomatic language, is considered a rebuke.
The text also "reaffirms" the "call for an immediate ceasefire between the parties."
There is no reference in the statement to rockets fired by Hamas into Israel. This marks a major change in relation to a statement on the 17th, in wich the ministry "also" stated Israeli bombing and attack from Gaza.
In that time,, the Foreign Ministry also expressed "solidarity" with the victims "in Palestine and Israel's ally", but now it only mentions the "high number of civilian casualties, including women and children" left by Israeli attacks.
The communiqué justifies with the escalation of violence the vote by Brazil in favor of the resolution of the Human Rights Council of the UN wich approved , also on this Wednesday,, the opening of an investigation to determine whether Israel committed war crimes in Gaza.
The resolution was approved by 29 of the 47 countries present. The U.S., Israel's ally, were the only ones against. There were abstentions by 17 countries, mostly European.".
The original article is here (http://www.correiodoestado.com.br/noticias/brasil-engrossa-critica-a-acao-de-israel-e-poupa-o-hamas_222874/).
About the "diplomatic dwarf" (sic) :blink:, there's some information here (http://www.correiodoestado.com.br/noticias/se-ha-algum-anao-diplomatico-nao-e-o-brasil-diz-ministro_222961/).
Inaiá
It is the moral dwarf (Zionist leaders of Israel) commenting on the political (Brazilian politicians) dwarf.
Ie, the pot calling the kettle black.
The reality is: what do these psychopaths speak or do not speak, will not make any difference as karmic reaction to murderous actions, which will result in repercussions of equal magnitude.
Inaiá
26th July 2014, 02:48
The reality is: what do these psychopaths speak or do not speak, will not make any difference as karmic reaction to murderous actions, which will result in repercussions of equal magnitude.
Yep! :wizard:
An adendum: Still talking about Brazil going against their attacks on Gaza (Brazil called "disproportional" the force used by Israel) , the Ministry of Foreign Affairs of Israel, Yigal Palmor, has pronounced this... thing:
"Disproportionate is 7-1". (sic/sick).
As a journalist said, Palmor "wanted to be funny and ironic and compared the human drama of broken families, grief and tragedy that occurs in Gaza to the declassifying of Brazil in the World Cup against Germany. (...).
It was not funny, it was not ironic. It was just inhumane.". Laura Capriglione, here (https://br.noticias.yahoo.com/blogs/laura-capriglione/um-viva-para-os-her%C3%B3is-israelenses-contra-o-213602484.html).
Rocky_Shorz
26th July 2014, 03:11
Wormtongue just made themselves visible in #Israel
"Sharon’s chief advisor, Dov Weisglass describe siege as "‘an appointment with dietician. Palestinians will get a lot thinner, but won’t die’"
I'm calling all sleuthers to give me everything they can find on who he bows to...
ever heard of the false prophet... we're getting closer...
not online other than cell, so can follow but hard to post...
panopticon
26th July 2014, 05:30
The reality is: what do these psychopaths speak or do not speak, will not make any difference as karmic reaction to murderous actions, which will result in repercussions of equal magnitude.
Yep!
An adendum: Still talking about Brazil going against their attacks on Gaza (Brazil called "disproportional" the force used by Israel) , the Ministry of Foreign Affairs of Israel, Yigal Palmor, has pronounced this... thing:
"Disproportionate is 7-1". (sic/sick).
As a journalist said, Palmor "wanted to be funny and ironic and compared the human drama of broken families, grief and tragedy that occurs in Gaza to the declassifying of Brazil in the World Cup against Germany. (...).
It was not funny, it was not ironic. It was just inhumane.". Laura Capriglione, here (https://br.noticias.yahoo.com/blogs/laura-capriglione/um-viva-para-os-her%C3%B3is-israelenses-contra-o-213602484.html).
That was an exceptional article. Thank you.
For anyone interested in more on the Israeli's who refuse to fight please see:
http://forward.com/articles/202671/-israeli-reservists-refuse-to-serve-in-gaza-war/
http://www.washingtonpost.com/posteverything/wp/2014/07/23/we-are-israeli-reservists-we-refuse-to-serve/
It takes courage to say "no" when all those around you say "yes". When you are berated by friends, family and strangers alike.
Sometimes saying "no" is the hardest thing.
I honour their courage and willingness to stand by their decision.
-- Pan
panopticon
26th July 2014, 06:10
Wormtongue just made themselves visible in #Israel
"Sharon’s chief advisor, Dov Weisglass describe siege as "‘an appointment with dietician. Palestinians will get a lot thinner, but won’t die’"
I'm calling all sleuthers to give me everything they can find on who he bows to...
ever heard of the false prophet... we're getting closer...
not online other than cell, so can follow but hard to post...
Hey Rocky,
That's a well known quote from 2006 mate.
Weisglass denies he ever said it (was in a private meeting). But really, is he going to admit to that in public?
For those interested:
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2006/apr/16/israel
http://electronicintifada.net/content/israels-starvation-diet-gaza/11810
And on the Disengagement Plan:
http://www.haaretz.com/print-edition/news/top-pm-aide-gaza-plan-aims-to-freeze-the-peace-process-1.136686
https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2004/10/isr-o09.html
Weisglass = Sharon, Peres (who lives next door to him), Powell, Condoleezza Rice (http://www.jmcc.org/Documentsandmaps.aspx?id=698), Yossi Ginosaur, Muhammad Rashid (aka Khaled Salam) (http://www.jpost.com/Middle-East/Adviser-to-Arafat-wanted-for-embezzlement-fraud), Arafat and many more. Major "mover and shaker" with fingers in different pies.
If you're after background on Weisglass' thinking read this (exceptional for background on Sharon in 2004 & the thinking behind the Israeli Disengagement Plan):
http://www.jmcc.org/Documentsandmaps.aspx?id=698
-- Pan
panopticon
26th July 2014, 06:42
I've written that the resumption of rocket launches from Gaza by Hamas was in response to Israel's Operation Brothers Keeper. I've also made reference that Hamas had not broken the 2012 ceasefire agreement until the 30th June launches in response to Israel's detention of (depending on sources) between 330 & 566 (and 6 dead) Palestinians in the West Bank by 26th June. These detentions were allegedly to do with finding the Hamas militants responsible for the slaughter of the 3 Israeli-Jewish youths.
There have been varying reports from Israeli Police that they know the official line (that Hamas organised the kidnapping & slaughter) is incorrect (source (http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2014/07/hamas-didnt-kidnap-the-israeli-teens-after-all.html) more detailed report here (http://www.dailydot.com/politics/israel-gaza-kidnap-false-inaccurate/)). In other words Netanyahu *& his associates lied to incite hatred and justify Israel going into another assault on Gaza. That's right, I'm actually not a loony...
Just to show that there had not been a break of the ceasefire by Hamas until Operation Brothers Keeper had been running for over a week I'll refer to this article from The Times Of Israel.
###
Hamas fires rockets for first time since 2012, Israeli officials say (http://www.timesofisrael.com/hamas-fired-rockets-for-first-time-since-2012-israeli-officials-say/)
By Avi Issacharoff & Times Of Israel Staff. June 30th, 2014, 1:40 pm
http://cdn.timesofisrael.com/uploads/2014/06/F090107YZ02-635x357.jpg
Volley that hit near southern communities Monday may have been launched by terror group to warn Israel against targeting its members
Haamas operatives were behind a large volley of rockets which slammed into Israel Monday morning, the first time in years the Islamist group has directly challenged the Jewish state, according to Israeli defense officials.
At least 16 rockets were fired at Israel Monday morning, most of them hitting open areas in the Eshkol region, the army said.
The security sources, who spoke on condition of anonymity, assessed that Hamas had probably launched the barrage in revenge for an Israeli airstrike several hours earlier which killed one person and injured three more.
A member of Hamas’s militant wing was killed in the attack, Gaza health official Ashraf al-Kidra said.
While Israel has maintained it holds Hamas responsible for all rocket attacks, officials have said that smaller groups, such as Islamic Jihad, are usually behind the rocket attacks, while Hamas squads generally attempt to thwart the rocket fire.
Hamas hasn’t fired rockets into Israel since Operation Pillar of Defense ended in November 2012, and has yet to take responsibility for this latest barrage.
The group fired hundred of rockets at Israel over eight days during Operation Pillar of Defense in 2012, as Israel carried out punishing strikes on the Palestinian enclave.
Officials said Monday’s rocket attacks, which appeared to deliberately target Israeli communities close to the border with the Gaza Strip, may have been intended to warn Israel against targeting Hamas operatives.
The army said in a statement that the Sunday night air raid was targeting terrorists “in the southern Gaza Strip, during their final preparations to launch rockets at civilian communities of southern Israel.”
“Hamas is responsible for the outrageous attacks originating from Gaza, and will be pursued as such,” IDF spokesman Lt. Col. Peter Lerner said.
The air force attack on Khan Younis Sunday night came minutes after Palestinians in the coastal enclave fired a volley of rockets at southwestern Israel. The Iron Dome defense system shot down two of the projectiles — Grad rockets — over Netivot. There were no reports of injury or damage in the rocket attack.
Early Sunday morning, air force planes struck 12 sites in Gaza in response to rockets fired over the weekend. Two rockets hit the town of Sderot, close to the border with Gaza, late Saturday, causing a massive fire that destroyed a paint factory.
The latest series of attacks comes amid an escalation in hostilities along Israel’s border with the Gaza Strip, as IDF troops scour the West Bank for three missing Israeli teenagers.
Israel has accused Hamas, which rules the Strip, of abducting the teens on June 12 and named two Hamas men as the suspected perpetrators.
Source (http://www.timesofisrael.com/hamas-fired-rockets-for-first-time-since-2012-israeli-officials-say/)
panopticon
26th July 2014, 06:56
As for claims that this is all a Jewish conspiracy...
Someone forgot to tell the Israeli 'Rabbis for Human Rights' (RHR) who every year protect olive farmers in the West Bank from Settlers attacking them and their groves.
That's right. In IDF/Netanyahu language, these rabbis are acting as 'human shields'.
More power to them.
###
Extremist Settlers Clash With Rabbis Over Palestinian Olive Groves on West Bank (http://forward.com/articles/202842/extremist-settlers-clash-with-rabbis-over-palestin/)
By Reuters. Published July 25, 2014
http://forward.com/image/2/630/0/5//assets/images/articles/w..olivewestbank-072514.jpg.jpg
Human Rights Activists Act as Harvest 'Human Shields'
Jewish settlers clashed with activists of the Rabbis for Human Rights movement near the West Bank city of Hebron on Friday as they protected Palestinians beginning the annual olive harvest.
Israeli police and soldiers grappled with settlers who tried to drive off local Palestinians and international supporters of Palestinian rights in the West Bank.
“This is just the beginning of the olive harvest which will be going on for the next two months,” said the executive director of Rabbis for Human Rights, Arik Ascherman.
He said activists were going to 40 Palestinian villages to protect olive growers and uphold their right to work the land, and harvest. They would act “as human shields” if necessary.
A settler woman screamed “Murderer, murderer” at the rabbi, and settlers angrily shouted down any activists trying to explain their aims to TV reporters.
The West Bank olive harvest has developed over the past decade into a regular confrontation between Palestinian farmers and Israelis who have settled on nearby land.
Palestinians say settler harassment often turns to encroachment and eventually seizure of more land in the name of settler “security”.
“There are those who say all the land of Israel belongs only to the Jewish people,” Ascherman said. “Everybody knows these are Palestinian-owned trees.”
“It’s unfortunate that some people so filled with mistaken religious fervor are choosing to insult, be violent, trying to steal the olives.”
The settlers say they want a secure route from the settlement through the olive grove, to a cave regarded as a Jewish holy site.
“The settlers would like to make a path … as part of their effort to create facts on the ground,” Ascherman said. “They’ve been trying to create this outpost here to take more and more Palestinian land.”
Rabbis For Human Rights said in a statement that delegations also joined Palestinians for the olive harvest near Nablus, “where there is a long history of the army preventing agricultural work”.
“In several locations olives have already been stolen in recent weeks, and this year’s harvest will be all the more difficult because of the recent wave of settler violence,” the group said.
Its members would “work to insure that Israeli security forces meet their obligations under international law and the ruling of the Israeli High Court”, the statement added.
Source (http://forward.com/articles/202842/extremist-settlers-clash-with-rabbis-over-palestin/)
panopticon
26th July 2014, 07:20
Amazing image of the destruction in Beit Hanoun...
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Btc58UJCcAAJ9GS.jpg
-- Pan
panopticon
26th July 2014, 09:09
Images of destruction in Shajaia, showing "precise targeting" of "surgical operation", taken during 12 hour ceasefire:
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BtdCw0QCcAAtI8z.jpg
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BtdTrheCIAASgZG.jpg
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BtcrQLmIgAAIEmP.jpg
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BtdTucmCMAAbNG7.jpg
Yet life goes on:
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BtdJcKtCQAAUrlT.jpg
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BtdUbRPCcAEs-sO.jpg
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BtdUW2aCIAAbLtp.jpg
-- Pan
panopticon
26th July 2014, 10:01
UNRWA: 162,862 displaced in 83 shelters with more than 80 people sharing one classroom in some of them, adding even more stress to already traumatized families (source (https://twitter.com/UNRWA)).
-- Pan
Realeyes
26th July 2014, 11:56
These photos speak a million words.............. quite heart breaking.
Images of destruction in Shajaia, showing "precise targeting" of "surgical operation", taken during 12 hour ceasefire:
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BtdCw0QCcAAtI8z.jpg
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BtdTrheCIAASgZG.jpg
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BtcrQLmIgAAIEmP.jpg
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BtdTucmCMAAbNG7.jpg
Yet life goes on:
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BtdJcKtCQAAUrlT.jpg
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BtdUbRPCcAEs-sO.jpg
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BtdUW2aCIAAbLtp.jpg
-- Pan
panopticon
26th July 2014, 12:00
More than 80 corpses have been pulled from the rubble in Gaza since the temporary ceasefire came into effect almost 7 hours ago.
Palestinian death toll is now more than 1000 with many more thought to be under the rubble. At least 80% are thought to have been civilians.
Israeli death toll 37 with 2 civilians.
Oxfam reports that '44% of Gaza territory has now been declared areas that people must leave. The remaining 56% is also dangerous and faces frequent airstrikes'.
At just past the half way mark the 12 hour "ceasefire" has held so far. Israel has continued its "tunnel destroying mission" and retained troops and tanks in many areas so really its just that Hamas & co hasn't any rockets, the IDF has stopped bombing/shelling Gaza and the IDF snipers are having a break...
Over night the IDF once again accidentally targeted a hospital in Beit Hanoun with shelling (source (http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/1.607272)) & reports have come in that tanks have been stationed near there leaving many emergency workers concerned for their safety.
Beit Hanoun Hospital:
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BtdftQmCIAABULu.jpg
More images from Beit Hanoun:
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BtdDhR7CYAAWueR.jpg
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BtdDh3ECMAE1HrE.jpg
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BtdTIQPCIAAyHwv.jpg
-- Pan
panopticon
26th July 2014, 12:26
Saw this photo-report on hurried burials during Gaza ceasefire from NBC's FC Ayman Mohyeldin (https://twitter.com/AymanM):
uly 26, 2014 | Shejaiya, Gaza. An open lot of land is converted to a cemetery allowing for people to bury relatives. There is no time for proper burials here. Bodies are buried and their graves marked with cinder blocks from bombed out buildings nearby. In the distance, people frantically dig to make more space for more dead bodies. A steady stream of bodies was coming from several hospital so quickly that families had to wait in the shade until their graves were dug up.
http://photos-g.ak.instagram.com/hphotos-ak-xaf1/10584601_254986491368638_109993106_n.jpg
Source (http://instagram.com/p/q6Zo_KHEOe/)
-- Pan
Wind
26th July 2014, 13:30
When this will be over, will the leaders of USA and Israel be condemned for the crimes against humanity? I somehow highly doubt it... There is no justification for this, I am ashamed of the international community, if I ever had any respect for them then all of it is now totally gone. Thankfully many people seem to be seeing through the lies and many will wake up soon.
panopticon
26th July 2014, 13:41
The other day I quickly referenced a favourite site of mine in a post and didn't say anything about it so here's a bit on:
Active Stills (http://www.activestills.org/).
Active Stills is a collective of documentary photographers who take many of the pictures from within Palestinian and Israeli crowds, demonstrations, rallies and riots, that are published around the world. There are also Active Still members that travel and take photos in other parts of the world, but they work with protesters and protest groups where ever they are.
Put simply, they are activists who take photos to show the truth of a situation as seen through the lens of a camera.
The photo the other day I dissected about the anti-war rally in Israel was one of theirs (the one with the bloke wearing the neo-nazi shirt).
Anyway, here's a few of their photos from the last few days in the West Bank:
http://activestills.org/gallery/lightbox/ActiveStills1406267375v5j3h.lightbox.JPG
http://www.activestills.org/gallery/lightbox/ActiveStills1406258099qrgod.lightbox.jpg
http://www.activestills.org/gallery/lightbox/ActiveStills14063598829mdn7.lightbox.jpg
http://www.activestills.org/gallery/lightbox/ActiveStills1406269751p2mb8.lightbox.jpg
http://www.activestills.org/gallery/lightbox/ActiveStills1406258083t4qhy.lightbox.jpg
http://www.activestills.org/gallery/lightbox/ActiveStills1406310241p35nj.lightbox.jpg
Photo of a displaced families "house" @ as-Shifa Hospital in Gaza (24-07-14)
http://www.activestills.org/gallery/lightbox/ActiveStills1406262673j8ym3.lightbox.JPG
Here's a less than 4 minute video from Forward on them (article here (http://forward.com/articles/202776/israeli-photo-activists-shoot-against-the-grain/)):
http://vimeo.com/100649708
Source: http://vimeo.com/100649708
Their online gallery is available here (be aware that the 21,000 images is growing rapidly :) ):
http://www.activestills.org/theme.php
-- Pan
panopticon
26th July 2014, 14:11
When this will be over, will the leaders of USA and Israel be condemned for the crimes against humanity? I somehow highly doubt it... There is no justification for this, I am ashamed of the international community, if I ever had any respect for them then all of it is now totally gone. Thankfully many people seem to be seeing through the lies and many will wake up soon.
If I were a betting man I'd reckon they are trying to extend it to a ceasefire agreement around the 5th of August. Might not be able to justify continued action until then but probably will try to get a temporary truce and then negotiate a full ceasefire agreement which doesn't kick in until closer to then (ie 7 day prelude ceasefire starting around the 29th with Israel continuing to demolish tunnels). That is unless they are planning to do something else to remember the 5th or their plans go astray...
All the US, Israel, UN negotiations & UNHRC special hearing are a pantomime that are there to distract. Hamas, IJ & the factions are not very good at all this (though Abbas was a very fast study -- probably had lessons from Arafat, Chavez (http://www.eluniversal.com/nacional-y-politica/111012/president-chavez-welcomes-abbas-in-caracas) & Gaddafi (http://www.aawsat.net/2010/03/article55251503)).
http://www.jewishworldreview.com/images/arafat_abbas_v_sign_cover.jpg
http://www.seraphicpress.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/img_820530c7b0_abbas_chavez_caracas_handshake.jpg
http://www1.pictures.zimbio.com/gi/Muammar+al+Gaddafi+Palestinian+President+Abbas+apr6W8HW6pJl.jpg
Watch what they do, not what they say.
-- Pan
panopticon
26th July 2014, 14:27
Another heart breaking photo from Gaza during the temporary ceasefire.
July 26, 2014 | Shejaiya Cemetery, Gaza. Relatives frantically digging graves in an open lot being used as a cemetery. The stream of bodies was too fast for gravediggers to keep up with number of bodies being brought from nearby hospitals. The graves were being marked with cinder blocks from the rubble of nearby buildings destroyed by Israeli shelling. All that identifies where the dead are buried are the pieces of hand-written cardboard.
http://photos-a.ak.instagram.com/hphotos-ak-xfp1/10561147_329977947177696_1478775462_n.jpg
Source (http://instagram.com/p/q6cPixHEAw/)
-- Pan :tsk:
panopticon
26th July 2014, 15:06
Right, I'm off for a bit, but here's a really good article I came across a couple of hours ago that may help those who are still having trouble with the "accepted" view of what we are told to think. It's quite long and if you've been reading this thread it covers a lot of what I've been talking about so just skip bits if you are getting bogged down. The article has further links that are inserted at the end but please follow this link for the original (http://www.thenation.com/article/180783/five-israeli-talking-points-gaza-debunked).
-- Pan
###
Five Israeli Talking Points on Gaza—Debunked (http://www.thenation.com/article/180783/five-israeli-talking-points-gaza-debunked)
Noura Erakat July 25, 2014
http://www.thenation.com/sites/default/files/imagecache/main_node_view_image/gaza_airstrike_2014_ap_img.jpg
Israel claims that it is merely exercising its right to self-defense and that Gaza is no longer occupied. Here’s what you need to know about these talking points and more.
Israel has killed almost 800 Palestinians in the past twenty-one days in the Gaza Strip alone; its onslaught continues. The UN estimates that more than 74 percent of those killed are civilians. That is to be expected in a population of 1.8 million where the number of Hamas members is approximately 15,000. Israel does not deny that it killed those Palestinians using modern aerial technology and precise weaponry courtesy of the world’s only superpower. In fact, it does not even deny that they are civilians.
Israel’s propaganda machine, however, insists that these Palestinians wanted to die (“culture of martyrdom [1]”), staged their own death (“telegenically dead [2]”) or were the tragic victims of Hamas’s use of civilian infrastructure for military purposes (“human shielding [3]”). In all instances, the military power is blaming the victims for their own deaths, accusing them of devaluing life and attributing this disregard to cultural bankruptcy. In effect, Israel—along with uncritical mainstream media that unquestionably accept this discourse—dehumanizes Palestinians, deprives them even of their victimhood and legitimizes egregious human rights and legal violations.
This is not the first time. The gruesome images of decapitated children’s bodies and stolen innocence on Gaza’s shores are a dreadful repeat of Israel’s assault on Gaza in November 2012 and winter 2008–09. Not only are the military tactics the same but so too are the public relations efforts and the faulty legal arguments that underpin the attacks. Mainstream media news anchors [4] are inexplicably accepting these arguments as fact.
Below I address five of Israel’s recurring talking points. I hope this proves useful to newsmakers.
1) Israel is exercising its right to self-defense.
As the occupying power of the Gaza Strip, and the Palestinian Territories more broadly, Israel has an obligation and a duty [5] to protect the civilians under its occupation. It governs by military and law enforcement authority to maintain order, protect itself and protect the civilian population under its occupation. It cannot simultaneously occupy the territory, thus usurping the self-governing powers that would otherwise belong to Palestinians, and declare war upon them. These contradictory policies (occupying a land and then declaring war on it) make the Palestinian population doubly vulnerable.
The precarious and unstable conditions in the Gaza Strip from which Palestinians suffer are Israel’s responsibility. Israel argues that it can invoke the right to self-defense [5] under international law as defined in Article 51 of the UN Charter. The International Court of Justice, however, rejected this faulty legal interpretation in its 2004 Advisory Opinion [6]. The ICJ explained that an armed attack that would trigger Article 51 must be attributable to a sovereign state, but the armed attacks by Palestinians emerge from within Israel’s jurisdictional control. Israel does have the right to defend itself against rocket attacks, but it must do so in accordance with occupation law and not other laws of war. Occupation law ensures greater protection for the civilian population. The other laws of war balance military advantage and civilian suffering. The statement that “no country would tolerate rocket fire from a neighboring country” is therefore both a diversion and baseless.
Israel denies Palestinians the right to govern and protect themselves, while simultaneously invoking the right to self-defense. This is a conundrum and a violation of international law, one that Israel deliberately created to evade accountability [7].
2) Israel pulled out of Gaza in 2005.
Israel argues that its occupation of the Gaza Strip ended with the unilateral withdrawal of its settler population in 2005. It then declared the Gaza Strip to be “hostile territory” and declared war against its population. Neither the argument nor the statement is tenable [8]. Despite removing 8,000 settlers and the military infrastructure that protected their illegal presence, Israel maintained effective control of the Gaza Strip and thus remains the occupying power as defined by Article 47 of the Hague Regulations. To date, Israel maintains control of the territory’s air space, territorial waters, electromagnetic sphere, population registry and the movement of all goods and people.
Israel argues that the withdrawal from Gaza demonstrates that ending the occupation will not bring peace. Some have gone so far as to say that Palestinians squandered their opportunity to build heaven [9] in order to build a terrorist haven instead. These arguments aim to obfuscate Israel’s responsibilities in the Gaza Strip, as well as the West Bank. As Prime Minister Netanyahu once explained, Israel must ensure that it does not “get another Gaza in Judea and Samaria…. I think the Israeli people understand now what I always say: that there cannot be a situation, under any agreement, in which we relinquish security control of the territory west of the River Jordan [10].”
Palestinians have yet to experience a day of self-governance. Israel immediately imposed a siege upon the Gaza Strip when Hamas won parliamentary elections in January 2006 and tightened it severely when Hamas routed Fatah in June 2007. The siege has created a “humanitarian catastrophe [11]” in the Gaza Strip. Inhabitants will not be able to access clean water, electricity or tend to even the most urgent medical needs. The World Health Organization explains that the Gaza Strip will be unlivable [12] by 2020. Not only did Israel not end its occupation, it has created a situation in which Palestinians cannot survive in the long-term.
3) This Israeli operation, among others, was caused by rocket fire from Gaza.
Israel claims that its current and past wars against the Palestinian population in Gaza have been in response to rocket fire. Empirical evidence from 2008, 2012 and 2014 refute that claim. First, according to Israel’s Ministry of Foreign Affairs [13], the greatest reduction of rocket fire came through diplomatic rather than military means. This chart [14] demonstrates the correlation between Israel’s military attacks upon the Gaza Strip and Hamas militant activity. Hamas rocket fire increases in response to Israeli military attacks and decreases in direct correlation to them. Cease-fires have brought the greatest security to the region.
During the four months of the Egyptian-negotiated cease-fire in 2008, Palestinian militants reduced the number of rockets to zero or single digits from the Gaza Strip. Despite this relative security and calm, Israel broke the cease-fire [15] to begin the notorious aerial and ground offensive that killed 1,400 Palestinians in twenty-two days. In November 2012, Israel’s extrajudicial assassination of Ahmad Jabari [15], the chief of Hamas’s military wing in Gaza, while he was reviewing terms for a diplomatic solution, again broke the cease-fire that precipitated the eight-day aerial offensive that killed 132 Palestinians.
Immediately preceding Israel’s most recent operation, Hamas rocket and mortar attacks did not threaten Israel. Israel deliberately provoked this war [16] with Hamas. Without producing a shred of evidence, it accused the political faction of kidnapping and murdering three settlers near Hebron. Four weeks and almost 700 lives later, Israel has yet to produce any evidence demonstrating Hamas’s involvement. During ten days of Operation Brother’s Keeper [17] in the West Bank, Israel arrested approximately 800 Palestinians without charge or trial, killed nine civilians and raided nearly 1,300 residential, commercial and public buildings. Its military operation targeted Hamas members released during the Gilad Shalit prisoner exchange [18] in 2011. It’s these Israeli provocations that precipitated the Hamas rocket fire to which Israel claims left it with no choice but a gruesome military operation.
4) Israel avoids civilian casualties, but Hamas aims to kill civilians.
Hamas has crude weapons technology that lacks any targeting capability. As such, Hamas rocket attacks ipso facto violate the principle of distinction because all of its attacks are indiscriminate. This is not contested. Israel, however, would not be any more tolerant of Hamas if it strictly targeted military objects, as we have witnessed of late. Israel considers Hamas and any form of its resistance, armed or otherwise, to be illegitimate.
In contrast, Israel has the eleventh most-powerful military in the world, certainly the strongest by far in the Middle East, and is a nuclear power that has not ratified the non-proliferation agreement and has precise weapons technology. With the use of drones, F-16s and an arsenal of modern weapon technology, Israel has the ability to target single individuals and therefore to avoid civilian casualties. But rather than avoid them, Israel has repeatedly targeted civilians as part of its military operations.
The Dahiya Doctrine [19] is central to these operations and refers to Israel’s indiscriminate attacks on Lebanon in 2006. Maj. Gen. Gadi Eizenkot said [20] that this would be applied elsewhere:
What happened in the Dahiya quarter of Beirut in 2006 will happen in every village from which Israel is fired on. […] We will apply disproportionate force on it and cause great damage and destruction there. From our standpoint, these are not civilian villages, they are military bases [21].
Israel has kept true to this promise. The 2009 UN Fact-Finding Mission to the Gaza Conflict, better known as the Goldstone Mission [22], concluded “from a review of the facts on the ground that it witnessed for itself that what was prescribed as the best strategy [Dahiya Doctrine] appears to have been precisely what was put into practice.”
According to the National Lawyers Guild, Physicians for Human Rights-Israel, Human Rights Watch and Amnesty International, Israel directly targeted civilians or recklessly caused civilian deaths during Operation Cast Lead. Far from avoiding the deaths of civilians, Israel effectively considers them legitimate targets.
5) Hamas hides its weapons in homes, mosques and schools and uses human shields.
This is arguably one of Israel’s most insidious claims, because it blames Palestinians for their own death and deprives them of even their victimhood. Israel made the same argument in its war against Lebanon in 2006 [24] and in its war against Palestinians in 2008 [25]. Notwithstanding its military cartoon sketches [26], Israel has yet to prove that Hamas has used civilian infrastructure to store military weapons [27]. The two cases where Hamas indeed stored weapons in UNRWA schools [28], the schools were empty. UNRWA discovered the rockets and publicly condemned the violation of its sanctity.
International human rights organizations that have investigated these claims have determined that they are not true [25]. It attributed the high death toll in Israel’s 2006 war on Lebanon to Israel’s indiscriminate attacks. Human Rights Watch [24] notes:
The evidence Human Rights Watch uncovered in its on-the-ground investigations refutes [Israel’s] argument…we found strong evidence that Hezbollah stored most of its rockets in bunkers and weapon storage facilities located in uninhabited fields and valleys, that in the vast majority of cases Hezbollah fighters left populated civilian areas as soon as the fighting started, and that Hezbollah fired the vast majority of its rockets from pre-prepared positions outside villages.
In fact, only Israeli soldiers [29] have systematically used Palestinians as human shields. Since Israel’s incursion into the West Bank in 2002, it has used Palestinians as human shields by tying young Palestinians onto the hoods of their cars [30] or forcing them to go into a home [31] where a potential militant may be hiding.
Even assuming that Israel’s claims were plausible, humanitarian law obligates Israel to avoid civilian casualties that “would be excessive [32] in relation to the concrete and direct military advantage anticipated.” A belligerent force must verify whether civilian or civilian infrastructure qualifies as a military objective. In the case of doubt, “whether an object which is normally dedicated to civilian purposes, such as a place of worship, a house or other dwelling or a school, is being used to make an effective contribution to military action, it shall be presumed not to be so used [33].”
In the over thee weeks of its military operation, Israel has demolished 3,175 homes, at least a dozen with families inside; destroyed five hospitals and six clinics; partially damaged sixty-four mosques and two churches; partially to completely destroyed eight government ministries; injured 4,620; and killed over 700 Palestinians. At plain sight, these numbers indicate Israel’s egregious violations of humanitarian law, ones that amount to war crimes.
Beyond the body count and reference to law, which is a product of power, the question to ask is, What is Israel’s end goal? What if Hamas and Islamic Jihad dug tunnels beneath the entirety of the Gaza Strip—they clearly did not, but let us assume they did for the sake of argument. According to Israel’s logic, all of Gaza’s 1.8 million Palestinians are therefore human shields for being born Palestinian in Gaza. The solution is to destroy the 360-kilometer square strip of land and to expect a watching world to accept this catastrophic loss as incidental. This is possible only by framing and accepting the dehumanization of Palestinian life. Despite the absurdity of this proposal, it is precisely what Israeli society is urging its military leadership to do. Israel cannot bomb Palestinians into submission, and it certainly cannot bomb them into peace.
Source (http://www.thenation.com/article/180783/five-israeli-talking-points-gaza-debunked)
Links:
[1] http://www.haaretz.com/news/video/1.604544
[2] http://forward.com/articles/202436/netanyahu-hamas-wants-to-pile-up-telegenically/
[3] http://www.abc.net.au/7.30/content/2014/s4045856.htm
[4] http://cnnpressroom.blogs.cnn.com/2014/07/20/netanyahu-to-cnns-wolf-blitzer-i-support-taking-whatever-action-is-necessary-to-stop-this-insane-situation/
[5] http://www.jadaliyya.com/pages/index/8799/no-israel-does-not-have-the-right-to-self-defense-
[6] http://www.icj-cij.org/docket/index.php%3Fp1=3%26p2=4%26case=131%26p3=4
[7] mailto:http://www.jadaliyya.com/pages/index/8799/no-israel-does-not-have-the-right-to-self-defense-
[8] http://www.jadaliyya.com/pages/index/8807/is-gaza-still-occupied-and-why-does-it-matter
[9] http://www.haaretz.com/opinion/.premium-1.605297
[10] http://www.timesofisrael.com/netanyahu-gaza-conflict-proves-israel-cant-relinquish-control-of-west-bank/#ixzz38DxNdBv8
[11] http://www.theguardian.com/world/2009/jan/07/gaza-israel-palestine
[12] http://www.unrwa.org/newsroom/press-releases/gaza-2020-liveable-place
[13] http://www.mfa.gov.il/mfa/foreignpolicy/terrorism/pages/one%20month%20of%20calm%20in%20gaza%2028-jul-2008.aspx
[14] http://blog.thejerusalemfund.org/2014/07/gaza-cease-fire-dynamics-explained-what.html
[15] http://www.nytimes.com/2012/11/17/opinion/israels-shortsighted-assassination.html%3F_r=0
[16] http://972mag.com/how-netanyahu-provoked-this-war-with-gaza/93200/
[17] http://imeu.org/article/israels-west-bank-crackdown
[18] http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/israel-hamas-reach-gilad-shalit-prisoner-exchange-deal-officials-say-1.389404
[19] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dahiya_doctrine
[20] http://image.guardian.co.uk/sys-files/Guardian/documents/2009/09/15/UNFFMGCReport.pdf
[21] http://www.jpost.com/Features/Front-Lines/The-Dahiya-Doctrine-Fighting-dirty-or-a-knock-out-punch
[22] http://www2.ohchr.org/english/bodies/hrcouncil/docs/12session/A-HRC-12-48.pdf
[23] https://subscribe.thenation.com/servlet/OrdersGateway?cds_mag_code=NAN&cds_page_id=122425&cds_response_key=I12SART1
[24] http://www.hrw.org/sites/default/files/reports/lebanon0907.pdf
[25] https://www.amnesty.org/fr/library/asset/MDE15/021/2009/fr/9543003e-8282-4a1c-b4c9-bfc4743dc131/mde150212009eng.html
[26] http://www.idfblog.com/blog/2014/07/20/shujaiya-hamas-terror-fortress-gaza/
[27] http://mondoweiss.net/2014/07/military-destroyed-hospital.html
[28] http://www.unrwa.org/newsroom/press-releases/unrwa-strongly-condemns-placement-rockets-school
[29] http://www.jeremiahhaber.com/2009/07/breaking-silence-gaza-testimonies-use.html
[30] http://www.presstv.com/detail/2013/06/20/309997/israel-uses-palestinian-kids-as-shields-un/
[31] http://www.hrw.org/news/2010/11/26/israel-soldiers-punishment-using-boy-human-shield-inadequate
[32] http://www.icrc.org/applic/ihl/ihl.nsf/9ac284404d38ed2bc1256311002afd89/50fb5579fb098faac12563cd0051dd7c
[33] http://www.icrc.org/applic/ihl/ihl.nsf/9ac284404d38ed2bc1256311002afd89/f08a9bc78ae360b3c12563cd0051dcd4
[34] http://www.thenation.com/article/180767/newborn-infants-die-without-necessary-medical-care-gazas-overwhelmed-shifa-hospital
panopticon
26th July 2014, 15:27
Here's the author of the above article (only just saw this) and she really takes it to the Israeli lawyers arguments in this PBS News hour report.
kFt50lZkJyo
-- Pan
Inaiá
26th July 2014, 17:16
... here's a really good article I came across a couple of hours ago that may help those who are still having trouble with the "accepted" view of what we are told to think. It's quite long and if you've been reading this thread it covers a lot of what I've been talking about so just skip bits if you are getting bogged down. The article has further links that are inserted at the end but please follow this link for the original (http://www.thenation.com/article/180783/five-israeli-talking-points-gaza-debunked).
Excellent article.
Cidersomerset
26th July 2014, 18:48
A poignant report from veteran reporter Jon Snow, just back from
a brief visit to Gaza......
The children of Gaza I Channel 4 News
ACgwr2Nj_GQ
Published on 26 Jul 2014
Jon Snow recounts the scene in Gaza's al-Shifa hospital, where
doctors struggle to treat adults and children wounded by Israeli attacks
Tesseract
26th July 2014, 20:53
In Germany, the citizens said that they didn’t know of the horrors that were occurring at the concentration camps. Some people believed this claim of innocence, some didn’t. In Israel, anyone and everyone knows exactly what is going on in Gaza. Photographs of the atrocities pour out onto the internet by the hour. Everyone there knows what is going on, and so very many of them continue to support it.
All the world’s foreign ministers and secretaries of state know what is happening in Palestine. There are, thankfully, some voices of protest, from the socialist Latin American block and other places, but the West gives Israel their blessing – no matter what. No matter their chemical weapons, their DIME and white phosphorous, no matter their nuclear weapons stockpile, no matter their murder of activists and protesters. No matter anything. The international criminal court too, knows what is going on, but they fail to issue any kind of warrant or accusation against Israel.
John Kerry hasn’t uttered a syllable of condemnation and continues to provide the staunchest of political cover for Israel while they do their killing. He should resign. Not even with a pile of 1000 Palestinian corpses, just across the border from his location in Egypt, does he consider the possibility that he should drop his support for the Zionists and their actions. Meanwhile the republican opposition complains that Israel is not being supported enough. The mantra of Israel defending itself is like some kind of eternal echo bouncing around Washington. I wonder how many people Israel would have to slaughter before someone at the state department gave a frown?
Anyone following this disaster on twitter has been witnessing the most appalling, distressing, depressing stream of photographs pouring in, night after night. There was the one of the distraught father holding his infant in his arms, the back two thirds of the infant’s head completely missing. The photo of the boy in the ambulance with his dead father, perhaps too young to know what was exactly happening, but the people put him there so he could somehow say goodbye before the burial. The rows of corpses of entire families lined up at the hospital. The doctors crying after one of their own colleagues has been killed. And yet nothing here, nothing at all, is considered to be any kind of crime whatsoever. There is no outrage like there has been for Syria, no, just constant approval for Israel. Preaching to the converted on this thread, I know.
There is another kind of photo which you see too, in amongst the death. Those are the photos (and videos) of the happy Israelis, like the one right at the start of this thread. Some thought this wasn’t possibly real, or wasn’t what it seemed to be. Well, now that we know it is real, hopefully some more people will wake up. For, this is the very illustration of Zionism, which is a racist ideology that enables the most grotesque atrocities to be committed without a hint of contrition. What do Netanyahu, Kerry and Cameron, all from different parties and countries, all have in common? They are all ardent Zionists, and they all strongly support the actions that lead to this mass murder.
Supporting Zionism, the Jewish domination of Palestine, is no different than supporting Nazism and the creation of an Aryan state in Europe. The fight against Zionism is no less honourable than the fight against Nazism, and to succumb to, accept or appease Zionism is no less unfortunate and regrettable. The fight against Zionism needs to continue, and while the Palestinians need to be armed, supported and defended, the resistance needs to be a global one. Demand to know if your local representative or candidate is a Zionist, and if they are, or they fail to deny it, let them know this is why you will not be voting for them. Associate their names with the genocide that is occurring in Palestine, for they are the upholders of the ideology. Demand that the resistance factions be taken off the list of terrorist organisations, or that the IDF joins them, for no other arrangement is consistent. And, of course, boycott Israel in any way that you can, in the same spirit that South Africa was boycotted not so long ago.
panopticon
27th July 2014, 05:59
A poignant report from veteran reporter Jon Snow, just back from
a brief visit to Gaza......
The children of Gaza I Channel 4 News
ACgwr2Nj_GQ
Published on 26 Jul 2014
Jon Snow recounts the scene in Gaza's al-Shifa hospital, where
doctors struggle to treat adults and children wounded by Israeli attacks
G'day Steve,
Exceptional video from Jon Snow.
He has really been at the vanguard of pro-Palestinian reporting on the latest assault. I say pro-Palestinian reporting so as to differentiate with the way Israeli Government proponents try to dichotomise discussion around this (ie they try to make the discussion about people being either pro-Israel or Anti-Israel [which they then auto-magically translate into "pro-terrorist"]).
There was an excellent article the other day I linked to (http://mondoweiss.net/2014/07/israel-militarized-social.html) about how social media was militarised by Israel and how this has affected the way in which people view this and previous assaults.
I also read another article that I didn't link to (http://normanfinkelstein.com/2014/long-live-twitter-even-if-i-dont-know-what-it-is/) that talks about how reporters have always been witnesses to events and now are able to relate, in real-time, what they see and feel during the "event". This has changed the way in which many people frame this assault. Here's an excerpt from that article:
A foreign correspondent uses her phone after four Palestinian boys were killed by Israeli shelling in front of hotel where many reporters were staying.
Shortly after Israel began its ground invasion of Gaza, Anne Barnard, a New York Times reporter who has covered wars for over a decade, stood in the emergency room of the Al-Shifa hospital in Gaza City and watched a 9-year-old girl die.
The girl was alone, without family, nameless. And when the doctor finally pronounced her dead, Barnard and another reporter wept.
And then she tweeted:
http://normanfinkelstein.com/wp/wp-content/uploads/Capture1.jpg
...
Israel faces a challenge now that it never dealt with in the pre-Twitter age, when the constructs of journalism actually helped mitigate the strength of that first overwhelming response that any reporter — any human being — would have to a situation of death and destruction. Newspaper articles strive toward an unemotional style, with editors cutting out anything that might hint at bias. We can see the difference if you look at the way Barnard’s experience with the dying girl at Al-Shifa made it into her story (co-bylined with Isabel Kershner) about the battle in the neighborhood of Shejaiya. A paragraph toward the bottom of the article, after much context — including an explanation of the fighting by an Israeli government official — described the scene in a much more muted way in a few economical sentences (“They covered her with a white sheet, and she was gone”). Nowhere near the raw emotional impact of her tweet.
Source (http://normanfinkelstein.com/2014/long-live-twitter-even-if-i-dont-know-what-it-is/)
It is widely reported that Israel has lost the online "war". It is difficult to present an argument that is lacking in fact and relies on emotive responses within the written medium. It is also very difficult in that medium to not have "half-truths" and lies exposed for what they are...
Many reporters are reporting via social media their thoughts, feelings, horror and frustration at what they are witnessing. Their reporting is edited (either by themselves or their editor) to be more appropriate for their target readership. That is why it is important to note small changes in the way they modify their depiction over time because they are re-framing the way in which their readership views the world (and in this case the assault). Of course if you really want to see how they feel then look at their various feeds. It's often very different to what they report in the conservative MSM (with the exception of reporters [mostly from "liberal" media outlets] like Snow (https://twitter.com/jonsnowC4), Miller (https://twitter.com/millerC4), Fear (https://twitter.com/harryfear) and Beaumont (http://www.theguardian.com/profile/peterbeaumont) to name only a few).
BTW, I am proud to say that every time I read the first part of the above quote (including the accompanying image) I get a tear in my eye.
-- Pan
panopticon
27th July 2014, 07:03
Notice that Tony Blair has been mysteriously absent from the ceasefire "negotiations"?
He's a busy fella and doesn't have much time for such things, even if he is the Middle East Envoy for The Quartet (UN, EU, US & Russia) and is supposedly based in Jerusalem.
Bit too busy young Tony having parties @ his country estate:
http://vid.alarabiya.net/images/2014/07/27/479efdb6-9c37-4bd0-8b3c-0cfccdcf2a80/479efdb6-9c37-4bd0-8b3c-0cfccdcf2a80_16x9_600x338.jpg
http://vid.alarabiya.net/images/2014/07/27/33d7822c-4e9a-45af-9b71-8c574f650fb0/33d7822c-4e9a-45af-9b71-8c574f650fb0_4x3_296x222.jpg
Mind you, if he was there he'd probably do about as much good as Kerry...
Here's what Barak Ravid said about Kerry:
If Kerry did anything on Friday it was to thwart the possibility of reaching a cease-fire in Gaza. Instead of promoting a cease-fire, Kerry pushed it away. If this failed diplomatic attempt leads Israel to escalate its operation in Gaza, the American secretary of state will be one of those responsible for every additional drop of blood that is spilled.
Source (http://t.co/5LpdSY2L7N)
Sounds about right to me.
-- Pan
panopticon
27th July 2014, 13:22
Hamas proposed a ceasefire for a 24 hour period that was due to start at 2:00 pm (Gaza local time).
Earlier today Israel proposed an extension which Hamas & factions said no to and launched a series of rockets.
Israel launched a bombardment on Gaza.
Now Hamas & factions are requesting a 24 hour ceasefire in honour of the end of Ramadan (celebration is called Eid al-Fitr).
There seems to be some confusion as to why Hamas didn't just agree to the earlier ceasefire.
Israeli Government has just rejected the Hamas proposed 24 hour humanitarian ceasefire but evidently is holding fire to see if Hamas does too.
BTW there are 2 different versions of the ceasefire non-proposal from Kerry floating around (you know, the one Kerry said the Israeli government didn't get so they could declined it the other day). I've put the one from Haaretz (source (http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/.premium-1.607379)) here (http://apanopticview.drivehq.com/images/Kerry%20Ceasefire%20Deal%2020140725%20--%20haaretz.png) and the other one here (http://apanopticview.drivehq.com/images/Kerry%20ceasefire%202.png).
If this wasn't so tragic, I'd find it farcical.
Meanwhile:
sq81iWalit4
-- Pan
panopticon
27th July 2014, 15:08
A new Poll in Israel has found that 86.5% of the Hebrew speaking population want the operation to continue (source (http://www.jpost.com/Operation-Protective-Edge/Poll-865-percent-of-Israelis-oppose-cease-fire-369064)).
Rimon cautioned Netanyahu that if he agreed to a cease-fire, he would be confronting the overwhelming majority of the nation.
-- Pan
panopticon
27th July 2014, 16:25
7000 Israeli's protested in Tel-Aviv against the assault on Gaza (26th July).
http://activestills.org/gallery/lightbox/ActiveStills1406408514ir2co.lightbox.jpg
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BtfRwZXCcAAFg4k.jpg
http://activestills.org/gallery/lightbox/ActiveStills1406408544i2gsv.lightbox.jpg
http://www.activestills.org/gallery/lightbox/ActiveStills14064085473o8we.lightbox.jpg
http://www.activestills.org/gallery/lightbox/ActiveStills140640852727vpi.lightbox.jpg
There was also a smaller but vocal and violent group of "nationalists" present.
http://activestills.org/gallery/lightbox/ActiveStills1406408572puu5h.lightbox.jpg
http://www.activestills.org/gallery/lightbox/ActiveStills1406443513xlt6x.lightbox.JPG
http://activestills.org/gallery/lightbox/ActiveStills1406408570rtigg.lightbox.jpg
http://www.activestills.org/gallery/lightbox/ActiveStills14064435199kml2.lightbox.JPG
-- Pan
panopticon
27th July 2014, 16:43
In Tel Aviv, thousands protest against the Gaza operation (http://www.haaretz.com/news/1.607311)
By Zafrir Rinat, July 27th, 2014
http://www.haaretz.com/polopoly_fs/1.607391.1406456021!/image/3333688356.jpg_gen/derivatives/landscape_640/3333688356.jpg
Some 7,000 protesters were estimated to attended in the biggest protest against the operation thus far, alongside a small protest in support of the IDF.
Thousands assembled at Tel Aviv's Rabin Square on Saturday evening for what became the largest protest against the Israeli military operation in Gaza thus far. According to official estimates some 7,000 protesters attended.
Meanwhile, a smaller group rallied in support of the operation in Gaza. The police served as a barrier between the groups to prevent clashes.
The former demonstration was organized by Hadash, the leftist political party, and the organizations Combatants for Peace and The Parents Circle Families Forum. Several hours before the protest was slated to begin the police announced that it was canceled for fear of rocket fire, but once news that the cease-fire would be extended surfaced, the demonstration was once again given the green light.
Protesters at the event called for an immediate end to hostilities and for the prompt resumption of peace talks. In one of the plaza's corners memorial candles were lit among pictures of fallen - both Israelis and Palestinians. Two Philippine women who attended the protest laid a bouquet of flowers in memory of the IDF casualties. "We aren't a part of the demonstration," one of them explained. "We came to show our gratitude to Israel for its help with the casualties of the typhoon in the Philippines last year."
Among the people to give speeches at the event were Capt. Assaf Ya'akobovich (Res.) and Salim Tabib of Ramallah. The two are active in an organization devoted to finding a peaceful solution to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. They called for both sides to immediately put down their arms.
http://www.haaretz.co.il/st/inter/Heng/news/images/Tel%20Aviv/1.jpg
Especially moving was the speech given by Ben Kfir, a resident of Ashkelon, whose daughter was murdered by a member of Hamas in 2003. "In Gaza they are digging concrete tunnels and we are erecting a separation fence," Kfir said. "How sad it is that we can't channel these efforts for peace." He also said "The infrastructure of terrorism is ignorance, poverty and despair. It is with these we must deal."
MK Dov Khenin (Hadash) called on the Israeli government to support a Palestinian unity government headed by Mahmoud Abbas. "So many heartbreaking moments happened this month," Khenin said at the rally. "A son crying over his father's grave, a mother weeping for her son, and many pictures of the wounded and dead. Behind each picture is a name, a family. We must answer truthfully: Has a drop of all this bloodshed really helped bring us to a better place?"
Prof. Eva Illouz also gave a speech at the demonstration. She commented on the right-wing incitement. "The left has 150 years of experience dealing with this incitement and it knows how to combat it," she said.
http://www.haaretz.co.il/st/inter/Heng/news/images/Tel%20Aviv/2.jpg
The ill-will felt towards the Israeli left could be gaged well among the group of right-wing protesters that the police corralled in a separate part of the plaza. They continually shouted "Death to the leftists" and expressed hope that "a rocket from Gaza" would kill them. In addition they merrily sang "Why is there no school in Gaza? Because no more kids are left." Some protesters tried to convince this group to stop singing these songs as they were detrimental to the message of support for the IDF that they were trying to promote, but to no avail.
Later in the evening these right-wing protesters tried to break through the police barrier into the greater demonstration and even succeeded for a short while to block Ibn Gevirol St., one of Tel Aviv's major arteries. The police quickly pushed them out of the street with cavalry. During the clashes four protesters were arrested. Due to these outbursts of violence the police asked the organizers to cut the protest short. The demonstrators eventually left without incident.
Source (http://www.haaretz.com/news/1.607311)
I thought i would add some relevant data, that which provides a valid explanation WHY -
It seems, it really was not about the deaths of 3 kids, it is about stealing natural resources - here is a thread started about this non-talked about set of facts.
http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?73306-It-was-not-about-the-deaths-of-3-kids-it-is-about-stealing-natural-resources
While you are at it: http://www.cicentre.com/?page=220 talks about a fascinating subject that one would consider is being applied. It's not about tunnels..
and
http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_world_/2013/08/29/snowden_leaks_spy_budget_israel_is_a_priority_target_why.html
and
http://www.newsweek.com/israels-aggressive-spying-us-mostly-hushed-250278
and
http://warincontext.org/2012/07/28/cia-knows-israel-cant-be-trusted-viewed-as-primary-counterintelligence-threat-in-the-region/ - Israel cannot be trusted..
panopticon
27th July 2014, 17:36
I thought i would add some relevant data, that which provides a valid explanation WHY -
It seems, it really was not about the deaths of 3 kids, it is about stealing natural resources - here is a thread started about this non-talked about set of facts.
Yep Bob, I been saying that this is nothing to do with the 3 Israeli-Jewish youths who were slaughtered since the beginning of the thread. The other day I posted about the Jerusalem Police's confirmation that it was nothing to do with Hamas in Gaza (source (http://www.dailydot.com/politics/israel-gaza-kidnap-false-inaccurate/)). I also posted a link about the Gaza Marine NG field here (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?72897-This-evening-in-Israel&p=854124&viewfull=1#post854124).
There is no simple "this is the reason".
That is a trap.
I think in levels and layers and relate it through a complex filter of power relations. I find that helps a bit but it tends to confuse most everyone else.
For those interested in power relation try the excellent (free) resources at Power Cube: http://www.powercube.net/
Also for anyone who wants to understand the Israeli Spokespersons "hymn book" there's always:
https://web.archive.org/web/20110201000304/http://australiansforpalestine.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/07/tip_report.pdf
Source (https://web.archive.org/web/20110201000304/http://australiansforpalestine.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/07/tip_report.pdf)
Thanks for the links, they were really helpful.
-- Pan
Realeyes
27th July 2014, 18:05
My first reaction reading this post my jaw dropped......:jaw:
Then read the source and read
The poll was conducted by respected pollster Mina Tzemach among 504 respondents, a representative sample of the Hebrew-speaking Israeli adult population.
[Highlight enhanced by me]
I am reminded that polls are easily manipulated via the way the question is constructed.
I bet if everyone in Israel was to vote their thoughts right now the poll results would show very different figures. (I believe in humanity)
Interesting (on the sad side) looking at the Jerusalem Post (first time for me) and reading the 'breaking news' that flashes across the top of the screen - wow - propaganda mind control in action flashing before one’s eyes. Repeat the shocking headlines enough times and it must be 'true' :twitch::suspicious:
IF media news fully and truthfully televised ‘all’ the people around the world protesting week after week against their government’s & world government’s policies on numerous agendas – I think we would be quite heartened that so many are waking up worldwide and shouting ‘no more’. grouphug:
:wizard::wizard::wizard:
A new Poll in Israel has found that 86.5% of the Hebrew speaking population want the operation to continue (source (http://www.jpost.com/Operation-Protective-Edge/Poll-865-percent-of-Israelis-oppose-cease-fire-369064)).
Rimon cautioned Netanyahu that if he agreed to a cease-fire, he would be confronting the overwhelming majority of the nation.
-- Pan
panopticon
27th July 2014, 19:25
My first reaction reading this post my jaw dropped......
Then read the source and read
The poll was conducted by respected pollster Mina Tzemach among 504 respondents, a representative sample of the Hebrew-speaking Israeli adult population.
[Highlight enhanced by me]
I am reminded that polls are easily manipulated via the way the question is constructed.
I bet if everyone in Israel was to vote their thoughts right now the poll results would show very different figures. (I believe in humanity)
Interesting (on the sad side) looking at the Jerusalem Post (first time for me) and reading the 'breaking news' that flashes across the top of the screen - wow - propaganda mind control in action flashing before one’s eyes. Repeat the shocking headlines enough times and it must be 'true' :twitch::suspicious:
IF media news fully and truthfully televised ‘all’ the people around the world protesting week after week against their government’s & world government’s policies on numerous agendas – I think we would be quite heartened that so many are waking up worldwide and shouting ‘no more’. grouphug:
Hey Realeyes,
I agree that the way a question is formed can lead the respondent into a certain answer as can the questions that surround the main question.
G0ZZJXw4MTA
I admit I was a bit surprised at the survey result though what I've been reading coming out of the MSM in Israel I wouldn't be surprised if that was an accurate figure. The survey number is probably fine if the sample is representative. I don't know if it is, given that the sponsor was Rimon, but if Tzemach is a "respected pollster" then I would say it has a high level of accuracy.
It is very important to remember that every single thing that gets written in the Israeli media goes through the censors first. It must follow the State line (or at least not contradict it to badly -- must maintain the semblance of autonomy) so what gets fed to the end user is carefully constructed.
The Jerusalem Post is quite Centrist in Israel. Maybe try Israel Hayom (http://www.israelhayom.com/site/today.php) or The Times of Israel (http://www.timesofisrael.com/). I24 is always "interesting" as well (Israeli English TV news station live feed here (http://www.i24news.tv/en/tv/live)). I've got I24 on at the moment and the argument (I wouldn't call it a discussion) is about "Operation Protective Edge". It's always interesting to see into the way in which the propaganda is spread.
I admit I only really read Haaretz regularly and then mostly the political section (Ravid is quite good).
The trick with Israeli media is if they are being quiet it means something is about to happen...
When the BBC & Reuters announced a ceasefire just before the ground invasion all the Israeli journalists were silent. Took hours before any of them wrote anything and that was to announce the ground incursion.
-- Pan
Tesseract
27th July 2014, 21:10
The state department is not capable of unbiased mediation:
kehwhHIh1Wk
PathWalker
27th July 2014, 21:28
I thought i would add some relevant data, that which provides a valid explanation WHY -
It seems, it really was not about the deaths of 3 kids, it is about stealing natural resources - here is a thread started about this non-talked about set of facts.
http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?73306-It-was-not-about-the-deaths-of-3-kids-it-is-about-stealing-natural-resources
While you are at it: http://www.cicentre.com/?page=220 talks about a fascinating subject that one would consider is being applied. It's not about tunnels..
and
http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_world_/2013/08/29/snowden_leaks_spy_budget_israel_is_a_priority_target_why.html
and
http://www.newsweek.com/israels-aggressive-spying-us-mostly-hushed-250278
and
http://warincontext.org/2012/07/28/cia-knows-israel-cant-be-trusted-viewed-as-primary-counterintelligence-threat-in-the-region/ - Israel cannot be trusted..
Indeed very informative.
Good indication that the Mossad agents have more extortion power on the USA elite then the CIA, NSA and FBI.
The CIA, NSA and FBI are less intimidating to the ruling elite then Mossad and Banksters.
Apparently they lost control.
PathWalker
27th July 2014, 21:53
In Germany, the citizens said that they didn’t know of the horrors that were occurring at the concentration camps. Some people believed this claim of innocence, some didn’t. In Israel, anyone and everyone knows exactly what is going on in Gaza. Photographs of the atrocities pour out onto the internet by the hour. Everyone there knows what is going on, and so very many of them continue to support it.
All the world’s foreign ministers and secretaries of state know what is happening in Palestine. There are, thankfully, some voices of protest, from the socialist Latin American block and other places, but the West gives Israel their blessing – no matter what. No matter their chemical weapons, their DIME and white phosphorous, no matter their nuclear weapons stockpile, no matter their murder of activists and protesters. No matter anything. The international criminal court too, knows what is going on, but they fail to issue any kind of warrant or accusation against Israel.
John Kerry hasn’t uttered a syllable of condemnation and continues to provide the staunchest of political cover for Israel while they do their killing. He should resign. Not even with a pile of 1000 Palestinian corpses, just across the border from his location in Egypt, does he consider the possibility that he should drop his support for the Zionists and their actions. Meanwhile the republican opposition complains that Israel is not being supported enough. The mantra of Israel defending itself is like some kind of eternal echo bouncing around Washington. I wonder how many people Israel would have to slaughter before someone at the state department gave a frown?
Anyone following this disaster on twitter has been witnessing the most appalling, distressing, depressing stream of photographs pouring in, night after night. There was the one of the distraught father holding his infant in his arms, the back two thirds of the infant’s head completely missing. The photo of the boy in the ambulance with his dead father, perhaps too young to know what was exactly happening, but the people put him there so he could somehow say goodbye before the burial. The rows of corpses of entire families lined up at the hospital. The doctors crying after one of their own colleagues has been killed. And yet nothing here, nothing at all, is considered to be any kind of crime whatsoever. There is no outrage like there has been for Syria, no, just constant approval for Israel. Preaching to the converted on this thread, I know.
There is another kind of photo which you see too, in amongst the death. Those are the photos (and videos) of the happy Israelis, like the one right at the start of this thread. Some thought this wasn’t possibly real, or wasn’t what it seemed to be. Well, now that we know it is real, hopefully some more people will wake up. For, this is the very illustration of Zionism, which is a racist ideology that enables the most grotesque atrocities to be committed without a hint of contrition. What do Netanyahu, Kerry and Cameron, all from different parties and countries, all have in common? They are all ardent Zionists, and they all strongly support the actions that lead to this mass murder.
Supporting Zionism, the Jewish domination of Palestine, is no different than supporting Nazism and the creation of an Aryan state in Europe. The fight against Zionism is no less honourable than the fight against Nazism, and to succumb to, accept or appease Zionism is no less unfortunate and regrettable. The fight against Zionism needs to continue, and while the Palestinians need to be armed, supported and defended, the resistance needs to be a global one. Demand to know if your local representative or candidate is a Zionist, and if they are, or they fail to deny it, let them know this is why you will not be voting for them. Associate their names with the genocide that is occurring in Palestine, for they are the upholders of the ideology. Demand that the resistance factions be taken off the list of terrorist organisations, or that the IDF joins them, for no other arrangement is consistent. And, of course, boycott Israel in any way that you can, in the same spirit that South Africa was boycotted not so long ago.
Tesseract is full of hatred and anger. I suggest Tesseract to join the ISIS army to fight Zionism and Jewish imperialism (CIA sponsored). The ISIS army is humane and graceful.
Pure propaganda.
I wonder what Tesseract have to tell about the Christian ethnic cleansing in Iraq, 3 million refuges in Syria, girls circumcision in ISIS, refugees sex slaves market in the emirates.
Yet all eyes are on the Israeli Palestinian conflict.
Where there are real atrocities and genocide is not where you are directed.
We are lead by TPTB propaganda, to hate and discriminate.
6FMNFvKEy4c
This scrimshaw is a propaganda distraction to something much worse. Look for the ominous global economics and political signals.
Tesseract
28th July 2014, 00:36
Pathwalker, actually, ISIS is doing nothing to fight Zionism, moreover the Zionist Israeli government is actually using its air force to attack those who are most actively fighting ISIS (SAA and Hezbollah). And, the fact that I have not mentioned ISIS or their crimes in this thread in no way justifies your utterly absurd suggestions. In fact, I am one of very few people on this forum - I may even be the only one who has publicly praised the main two factions which are fighting ISIS (SAA and Hezbollah), and I give the below quote as evidence. The American trained and armed Iraqis have capitulated, but I hope they can recover and defend Iraq from those monsters, it will be a difficult task.
Via http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?69621-Ukraine-Crimea-Syria-Israel-Iran-Putin-and-World-War-III&p=811727&viewfull=1#post811727
I think we have to acknowledge the heroism of those who are fighting this war on the ground every day, and I am referring to the Syrian Arab Army as well as Hezbollah. For them, WWIII is a reality. They have faced off wave after relentless wave of the most depraved, murderous, sub-human lifeforms on the planet for some time now. It has been a war of attrition with huge loss of life. The horrific depravity of the Nazis themselves (you know, those Europeans from times not so long past) is being rendered mundane in the wake of the exploits of the Syrian rebels and their Western champions.
The heroes of the SAA follow in the footsteps of the Libyan armed forces who fought the same battles, and won them with the support of the people (whether they really liked Gaddafi or not). Then, when they had the war won, the spiteful and evil NATO bombs rained down, bombing every target that popped up in the mind of some coward war planner in Paris, or London or Washington. The helicopters swooped in and strafed people in the streets. Apartments were bombed, the state media was bombed, schools, radio towers, water infrastructure, as well as the army, navy and airforce were bombed without mercy. They dropped so many bombs the combined forces of Europe exhausted their inventories – but nothing a short phone call to Raytheon and a few hundred million dollars couldn’t fix. And so the Jamahiriya forces fought this impossible war for six months - when it should have only taken a few weeks at most for them to be defeated.
The resistance in such places as Sirte and Bani Walid, which were bombed relentlessly throughout the war, will share a place in history with the other great hero-cities such as Stalingrad and Leningrad. The American filth even resorted to the use of thermobaric weapons, the so-called poor man’s nuke, with a lethal blast area over a kilometre across, in attempts to break open these cities to the attacking rabid dogs on the ground. In the end, Sirte was destroyed, but Bani Walid never fell – when the war was over they opened the gates to begin the reconciliation process.
Hezbollah, which fought back the Zionist army during the invasion of Lebanon in 2006, when the Israelis were bombing apartment blocks, power stations, airports, as a part of this ill-fated invasion whose every atrocity politically backed, funded and cheered on by the Western filth regimes we are all familiar with, with the US government scum taking the lead cheer leading role. During this war the ratio of enemy soldiers to civilians killed was higher for Hezbollah than it was for the IDF, giving the lie to the claim that these fighters are terrorists when the IDF are not. Now, Hezbollah has made what is a politically courageous decision to make a stand against those who wish to destroy Syria – at a time when the Hamas leadership has, by default, virtually stabbed Syria in the back. On the ground, the Palestinian people are largely supporting the Syrian government and Hezbollah, despite every attempt to convince them to do the opposite.
So in Syria, the SAA is faced with the simultaneous offence of the international jihadist filth, converging on Syria like hungry rats from almost every country on the planet. An invasion that is so organised the US is openly running a training base for these dogs in Jordan (which ironically has a recent bloody history of regime orchestrated mass murder and torture, and is not a democracy). Meanwhile weapons are being funneled in by NATO countries as well as their Saudi friends, as well as at least hundreds of millions of dollars and battle field intelligence. They also get the full might of the western propaganda machine. In addition to that you have Israel hitting hey targets via air strikes, and the not-quite disappeared threat of a repeat of the Libya holocaust by the NATO Neo-Luftwaffe. Does it sound like WWIII yet?
Somehow Syria has prevailed, for now, and is scoring significant victories all across the country. Isn’t that quite peculiar, for a government that has no support, for an army that has no support? Isn’t that peculiar for a people so desperate to throw away the country they knew and usher in the Syria that the rebels were offering them?
Maybe you believe in the NWO theory, maybe you don’t, maybe you just don’t like US hegemony and war-mongering. Either way, the SAA and Hezbollah are on the ground, resisting valiantly the enemy – their enemy and also our enemy. You may be one of those people who just conveniently says ‘both sides are bad’ – well, what will you do when the beast slouches into your neck of the woods?
Tesseract
28th July 2014, 03:09
I thought i would add some relevant data, that which provides a valid explanation WHY -
It seems, it really was not about the deaths of 3 kids, it is about stealing natural resources - here is a thread started about this non-talked about set of facts.
Yep Bob, I been saying that this is nothing to do with the 3 Israeli-Jewish youths who were slaughtered since the beginning of the thread. The other day I posted about the Jerusalem Police's confirmation that it was nothing to do with Hamas in Gaza (source (http://www.dailydot.com/politics/israel-gaza-kidnap-false-inaccurate/)). I also posted a link about the Gaza Marine NG field here (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?72897-This-evening-in-Israel&p=854124&viewfull=1#post854124).
There is no simple "this is the reason".
That is a trap.
I think in levels and layers and relate it through a complex filter of power relations. I find that helps a bit but it tends to confuse most everyone else.
For those interested in power relation try the excellent (free) resources at Power Cube: http://www.powercube.net/
Also for anyone who wants to understand the Israeli Spokespersons "hymn book" there's always:
https://web.archive.org/web/20110201000304/http://australiansforpalestine.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/07/tip_report.pdf
Source (https://web.archive.org/web/20110201000304/http://australiansforpalestine.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/07/tip_report.pdf)
Thanks for the links, they were really helpful.
-- Pan
Indeed, anyone reading this thread should flip through this hasbara handbook, which shows the finely-tuned science of zionist manipulation that you see everyday in the news, without necessarily noticing it. There is an article about it here by the great Patrick Cockburn:
Written by the expert Republican pollster and political strategist Dr Frank Luntz, the study was commissioned five years ago by a group called The Israel Project, with offices in the US and Israel, for use by those "who are on the front lines of fighting the media war for Israel".
Every one of the 112 pages in the booklet is marked "not for distribution or publication" and it is easy to see why. The Luntz report, officially entitled "The Israel project's 2009 Global Language Dictionary, was leaked almost immediately to Newsweek Online, but its true importance has seldom been appreciated. It should be required reading for everybody, especially journalists, interested in any aspect of Israeli policy because of its "dos and don'ts" for Israeli spokesmen.
http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/israelgaza-conflict-the-secret-report-that-helps-israelis-to-hide-facts-9630765.html
panopticon
28th July 2014, 11:59
https://web.archive.org/web/20110201000304/http://australiansforpalestine.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/07/tip_report.pdf
Source (https://web.archive.org/web/20110201000304/http://australiansforpalestine.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/07/tip_report.pdf)
Indeed, anyone reading this thread should flip through this hasbara handbook, which shows the finely-tuned science of zionist manipulation that you see everyday in the news, without necessarily noticing it. There is an article about it here by the great Patrick Cockburn:
Written by the expert Republican pollster and political strategist Dr Frank Luntz, the study was commissioned five years ago by a group called The Israel Project, with offices in the US and Israel, for use by those "who are on the front lines of fighting the media war for Israel".
Every one of the 112 pages in the booklet is marked "not for distribution or publication" and it is easy to see why. The Luntz report, officially entitled "The Israel project's 2009 Global Language Dictionary, was leaked almost immediately to Newsweek Online, but its true importance has seldom been appreciated. It should be required reading for everybody, especially journalists, interested in any aspect of Israeli policy because of its "dos and don'ts" for Israeli spokesmen.
http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/israelgaza-conflict-the-secret-report-that-helps-israelis-to-hide-facts-9630765.html
Well said Tesseract.
I think that everyone should have a look at the pdf because it shows the lie.
It's that simple.
The manipulation techniques are laid out bare for anyone with eyes to see.
Let's not think that this is isolated to the Israeli system. There is a huge amount of literature on how to frame discussions and control the flow of debate. It is really well developed and has been the centre of rhetorical techniques for, well, ever...
What is good about the above document is it simply shows what is being used and how it works in this particular discursive process.
Why else do we think that the US is doing the repeat ad nauseam strategy?
Repeat after me:
It is all about the sound bite. Stay on story. Don't get sidetracked. Stay on story. Say what you want. Don't answer questions if you have to go off story. Most importantly: Stay on story!
Remember, it's all about the sound bite.
BTW, thanks Tesseract for the excellent video:
kehwhHIh1Wk
-- Pan
panopticon
28th July 2014, 14:31
Reports that Israel has bombed Shifa Hospital with at least 6 dead (IDF claims it was an Hamas rocket misfire).
Netanyahu has just announced that Israel has rejected the UN ceasefire proposal.
Chris Gunness from the UNRWA is very angry about this incident from yesterdays NBC News "Meet The Press" (the interview before him was with Netanyahu transcript (http://www.nbcnews.com/meet-the-press/meet-press-transcript-july-27-2014-n166016)):
MfHdejOZ8wY
He has since watched the video and spoken with people who were at the Beit Hanoun hospital (UN marked refuge) when it was bombed and he is certain that there was no rockets launched from the hospital and that there were over 200 people in the hospital when the shelling hit. The IDF spokesperson has since said the rocket may not have been from the hospital and evidently that "there were no people in the playground"(WTF?)...
-- Pan
panopticon
28th July 2014, 15:03
The Al-Shati refugee camp was just shelled. A park with children playing in it was hit. It's hard to know from reports whether it was IDF or Hamas/factions.
At least 50 dead or wounded.
They are being taken to Shifa hospital...
That's was the one I mentioned had been targeted in the previous post.
I think 10 children have died at Shifa from the strike there.
It's hard to know how many are dead as the reports are jumbled but I think at least 40 people (most children) are dead.
-- Pan
Addendum:
Shifa Hospital:
According to eyewitnesses, an unmanned aircraft fired a rocket at the clinic. The Palestinians noted that the hospital compound is used as a shelter by thousands of Palestinians who fled their homes due to the fighting.
Source (http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/1.607542)
panopticon
28th July 2014, 15:11
Reports of a mortar landing amongst Israeli civilians near the front line.
8 reported wounded, 3 critical. Unknown who fired mortar.
That's all I've found about this attack.
panopticon
28th July 2014, 16:54
Reports that the IDF appears to be an increasing activity on the border.
Text messages sent to residents in some areas not previously targeted in central & northern Gaza to "evacuate immediately".
Increased air strikes also reported.
Netanyahu about to give press conference.
-- Pan
panopticon
28th July 2014, 18:07
Netanyahu:
The IDF will continue the assault until all "terror tunnels" have been destroyed. The West needs to stop talking about getting money into Gaza for infrastructure as it will just be used by Hamas for terrorism. Don't support terrorism.
Defense Minister:
Hamas is sacrificing its civilians. "Hamas uses its citizens as human shields. We shield out citizens." We will destroy the infrastructure of the terror organsations. The operation will likely continue on for a number of days.
IDF Chief:
Must destroy tunnels, infrastructure, rocket firing facilities. We are attacking from ground, air & sea. We will continue on with the operation. We will hurt Hamas. We feel bad that we have hurt civilians but Hamas operates from within them. We must protect our citizens. We are telling the people of Gaza to leave places because we will be attacking there. We will continue this operation and destroy all the targets. We have the backing of the homefront and the people of Israel. We will reach our targets and continue as long as the Minister of Defense and Prime Minister wish.
General thinking and response to speeches (especially given the anti-US/Kerry sentiment in Israel atm and the death of IDF troops) is that this assault will continue on for at least another 2 days.
Worth noting that Egypt has closed all attempts at ceasefire negotiations atm because el-Sisi and co are angry that Kerry etc didn't include Egypt in some of the talks, but did include Qatar & Saudi Arabia.
Talk within Israeli media seems to be that this is all the result of Hamas attacking Israel and coming through tunnels to attack soldiers. There was a big up-tick in rocket launches following the hospital & park blasts (reports that journalists have been to Shifa and found no evidence of a Hamas rocket but possible IDF debris/shrapnel has been found).
Get the feeling that Netanyahu is going to want to continue the blockade, the talk about Gaza Infrastructure and linking proposed development/rebuild of Gaza to "terrorist infrastructure". New term/talking point?
-- Pan
panopticon
28th July 2014, 19:24
How do the IDF propose that over 110,000 people move "right now"?
That's just Jabalia refugee camp. This link is the UNRWA profile page on Jabalia (http://www.unrwa.org/where-we-work/gaza-strip/camp-profiles?field=1&qt-view__camps__camp_profiles_block=4#qt-view__camps__camp_profiles_block), it really doesn't sound like a holiday camp...
Here's what it used to look like:
http://loralucero.files.wordpress.com/2013/05/189279_4731923541928_496585837_n.jpg
http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/photo/2014-07/25/133509004_14062445791471n.jpg
I suppose the people who used to live there have mostly moved already...
All up they are telling around 10% of the population to "go somewhere else"...
Where exactly?
Their new term "displaced refugees" seems a bit odd...
Especially as they are getting shelled as well.
-- Pan
panopticon
28th July 2014, 20:10
As if it isn't all bad enough there seems to be a growing fear in Israel, and throughout Jewish communities in Europe, of a new holocaust on the horizon.
It may explain why there is so much more fervour than usual amongst the religious nationalist far-right in Israel...
###
Talk of feared new Holocaust at Knesset meeting on European anti-Semitism (http://www.timesofisrael.com/talk-of-feared-new-holocaust-at-knesset-meeting-on-european-anti-semitism/)
By Amanda Borschel-dan July 28, 2014
http://cdn.timesofisrael.com/uploads/2014/07/DSC_0147-635x357.jpg
Full to capacity room at the Knesset's emergency meeting on rising anti-Semitism in Europe, July 28, 2014.
(Israel Bardugo / The Israeli-Jewish Congress)
Incitement against Jews in Germany at levels not seen since 1933, says speaker at emergency session
The room was packed to capacity at the Knesset on Monday for an emergency meeting on the “rising wave of violent anti-Semitic and anti-Israel demonstrations sweeping Europe,” with MKs and Diaspora Jewish leaders offering testimony and issuing condemnations.
The meeting, chaired by MK Yoel Razvozov, saw representatives of Jewish communities and diplomats from countries including France, Greece, Hungary, Belgium, United Kingdom, Netherlands, Denmark, Austria, Germany and Italy speaking at a session which went well overtime but ended inconclusively.
The meeting was called by the Knesset’s Diaspora Affairs Committee with the cooperation of the Israeli-Jewish Congress.
Members of Knesset bemoaned the upswing in anti-Semitism since the start of Operation Protective Edge on July 8, and security and academic experts attempted to drive home the dire importance of concrete steps to counter and educate against the rising anti-Semitism throughout Europe.
Vladimir Sloutzker, head of the Israeli-Jewish Congress, said starkly, “Never before since the Holocaust have we seen such a situation as today. We are potentially looking at the beginning of another Holocaust now.”
“These events will only grow in scale across Europe,” he warned.
The Holocaust and the pre-war period were recurrent themes in several speakers’ statements.
Nathan Norman Gelbart, the head of Germany’s Keren Hayesod (United Jewish Appeal), reported that the German Jewish community is scared “because these are things that have not occurred since 1933.” He cited demonstrators shouting “death to the Jews” and other anti-Semitic slogans.
“These demonstrators are marching in the heart of Berlin shouting these slogans, in front of the police. Shouting ‘Jews are pigs’ is an incitement: Why isn’t the Germany police taking the details of these people shouting in an aggressive way ‘Death to the Jews’?” asked Gelbart.
Hebrew University Prof. Robert Wistrich, an expert on anti-Semitism, said, “We have entered a new, very difficult era in all of Europe.” He said there is “a bit” of awareness in some governments, noting France’s aggressive stance against anti-Semitism in any form, from top government officials on down, “but we see it doesn’t make much of a difference — though it is important.”
Wistrich noted that years of “one-sided” anti-Israel media reports have led to an image of the Jewish state that is far removed from reality. Additionally, the constellation of extremists on the political far right and far left, along with jihadist immigrants, have created a new anti-Semitic climate in Europe, he said.
There is no longer a facade of anti-Zionist expressions not being anti-Semitic, said Wistrich. “You just need to hear the rhetoric to believe. We need a much deeper discussion; we’re just at the outer layer of the problem.”
Various European embassy officials obligingly reiterated their countries’ severe condemnation of anti-Semitism, but attributed official inaction during the recent anti-Israel protests to citizens’ right of free expression against Operation Protective Edge.
Denmark’s Ambassador Jesper Vahr said, “Clearly some of the events we have seen recently are despicable and intolerable.” He added, however, that Denmark “as a society defends the right of people who have a critical position to the Gaza operation.”
Meeting chair Razvozov rebutted, saying that “there is a difference between free speech and incendiary speech.” MK Yoav Bentsur agreed, saying, “It is impossible that in 2014 a Jew needs to take off Jewish symbols before walking the streets of Europe... if you don’t take care of the problem now, it will soon be too late.”
The looming existential threat to the Jewish community was touched upon by Esther Voet, director of the Centre of Information and Documentation on Israel (CIDI) in the Netherlands. She said although she is seeing more balanced reporting in the press versus during 2009′s Operation Cast Lead, “in the Netherlands we are very aware that it’s not about if something will happen in our country, but when.”
Benjamin Albalas, president of the Jewish Community of Greece, raised a further warning.
“The attitude in Europe is promoting delegitimization of the State of Israel… and is a first step toward the intimidation of the Jews’ right to live in their own home countries,” said Albalas.
Several Israeli speakers warned that the discussion in the Knesset was only touching the tip of the iceberg of the pervasive anti-Semitism in Europe today.
Knesset diplomatic adviser Oded Ben-Hur said, “Unfortunately, the situation is much worse than what you are describing... One of the problems is not just in knowing who is anti-Semitic, but to know that there is a whole swath of people who don’t even know they’re anti-Semitic — but they are.”
One of the very few to offer concrete suggestions, Ben-Hur suggested an increase in interfaith education.
“Emissaries talk until they are blue in the face and there is no end to this discussion... In the name of religion, more people have been killed than in plagues or disasters. There is ignorance between religions: We are comfortable in our own boxes, but we need to show we are the sons of the same God, and not to murder in the name of the God who created us all,” said Ben-Hur.
Source (http://www.timesofisrael.com/talk-of-feared-new-holocaust-at-knesset-meeting-on-european-anti-semitism/)
Cidersomerset
28th July 2014, 20:15
I just put this montage of articles on another thread, and since
it is still on copy on my mouse I'l paste it here. This thread just
appeared at the top of page one as I refreshed the other thread.
These articles are mainly from today , but I'm answereing a
slightly different question as will appear obvious as you read.
==========================================
I have no problems with Israels right to exist as sovereign state
history is full of the victors take the spoils.ISIS is doing something
similar in Iraq with non -muslims and other muslim sects, and other
countries have done it.
But considering the Jewish experiances of WW11 , how can they
massacre so many innocent civilians ? This is not the first time
either. Sure they have the right to defend themselves, but there
must be a better way. The UN should keep large forces on the
borders of Gaza and relieve Israel of the burden of persecuting
the Palestinians, thus gaining time to sort out more permanent
arrangements. As Jon Snow says in his report the average age
in Gaza is seventeen. That's a vast pool of potential disgruntled
future freedom fighters if something is not done to stop this
madness.
Luckily Israel has the Iron Dome shield that intercept 90%
of Hamas rockets and mortar fire, thanks to huge US subs'
Which is great and helps saves Israeli lives.
"Iron dome" in action: Rare footage of Hamas missiles being intercepted in Tel Aviv
xeuv9XlCons
Israel/Palestine is a tiny country contributing far to much
hate and evil frequencies. This is why you wonder who
really is behind all this.....
Hamas it is now being reported did not kill the three Israeli
Students and that was just the excuse needed to attack
GAZA blaming it on Hamas, even though they knew it
was a rogue cell that did the murders of the students...
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Some articles from Davids site today......
Hamas not complicit in teens’ kidnap: Israeli police
Monday 28th July 2014 at 07:58 By david-icke
http://www.davidicke.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/get-attachment-812-587x589.jpg
‘The Israeli Police Foreign Press Spokesman, Micky Rosenfeld, appears to have falsified the
Israeli government’s claim that Hamas was responsible for the killing of three Israeli settler
teens in June, by saying responsibility lies with a lone cell that operated without the
complicity of Hamas’ leadership.
The kidnapping and subsequent killing of three Israeli settler teens last month is considered
to be a flashpoint for the escalated violence in Gaza — that as of day 19 of the conflict has
left 926 Palestinians, mostly civilians, dead.
At the time Israeli authorities placed the blame squarely on Hamas, with Israeli Prime Minister
Benyamin Netanyahu saying “They were kidnapped and murdered in cold blood by animals in
human form. Hamas is responsible and Hamas will pay.”‘
Read more: Hamas not complicit in teens’ kidnap: Israeli police
http://www.dailystar.com.lb/News/Middle-East/2014/Jul-26/265229-hamas-not-complicit-in-teens-kidnap-israeli-police.ashx#axzz38kAlsCPK
There is a massive propaganda programme that has been going on for years....
lsunQGmGeJ8
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Israel’s ‘Operation Protective Edge’–Barbaric human sacrifice taking place in Gaza’s real-life Apocalypto
Monday 28th July 2014 at 08:06 By david-icke
http://www.davidicke.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/pile-R-587x521.jpg
‘And while it is true that many of the ‘enlightened’ countries of the West such as America,
Great Britain and others who worship at the altar of money, power and empire and who
therefore engage in this modern-day form of human sacrifice known as serial warfare in
appeasing these dark gods, there is one country in particular whose involvement in the
grisly, gory business of human sacrifice operates on a very different, personal, primal,
and primitive level, and that country of course is Israel.
Whereas the aforementioned countries deal in death not necessarily for death’s sake but
rather as an unavoidable consequence of attaining the blessings that the aforementioned
gods of money and power bring, when it comes to Israel however, the shedding of
blood–innocent, defenseless blood–holds particular ‘sentimental’ significance.
More personal than just business, when it comes to the trappings, teachings and traditions
of Judaism, blood is as intrinsic to its identity as bread and wine are within some Christian
ceremonies. It is, after all, that ‘old time religion’ that functions as the beating heart of the
Jewish state and which sustains and maintains who it is, what it is, what it does, and how it lives.’
The notion that Israel, again, THE JEWISH STATE, as her worshippers insist upon her being
characterized, would engage in the business of ritualistic human sacrifice should come as no
surprise to anyone who understands the ‘beating heart’ of what keeps her alive, meaning
Judaism. Human sacrifice, i.e. murdering innocent human beings in order to appease the
demands of some ‘higher’ power, is a theme introduced within literally the first chapters of
the very first book of the Jewish Torah–the book of Genesis to be exact–where a penniless
nomad named Abraham–the ‘Founding Father’ of the Jewish state as the world has been
told time and again–has got it in his head to slit the throat of his own son Isaac and burn
his young son’s body on a pile of stones in pleasing and appeasing the Jewish god Yahweh.
Luckily for Isaac, as the story goes, the voices in Abraham’s head telling him to engage in
the very same kind of brutal black Mass depicted in Apocalypto were drowned out by competing
voices telling him not to murder his son, but rather to sacrifice a nearby ram whose horns had
been caught in a briar and who could not escape to save its life.
The story–whether historically true or not, is immaterial to the fact that in the minds of those
whose identity is wrapped up in Israel, Judaism, Zionism, etc, a pattern and a paradigm have
been set through this legend–That killing innocent, defenseless creatures that can neither
escape nor fight back is the manner by which the Jewish god is appeased and satiated…
Using this–the slaughter and incineration of a ram–as the standard then, from there the
Judaic practice of killing docile, defenseless creatures for the purpose of quelling and
containing the anger of Yahweh, the Judaic god, isn’t just institutionalized, but becomes
the institution itself. Whether it is for atonement of sins, giving thanks or whatever the
mood of the occasion happens to be at that moment, the slaughter of living creatures
becomes THE method of connecting with and ‘getting right’ with ‘the god of Israel’
(a term publically used many times by Jewish terrorists ranging from Menachem
Begin to Netanyahu) as explained numerous times in the books of Leviticus, Deuteronomy,
Numbers and others found in the Torah. Specifically, as the ritual dictates, by laying hands
on the head of the animal to be killed, the sins of the people of Israel are transferred onto
the animal, and upon its brutal slaughter, the sins are wiped away and Yahweh is appeased, to wit–
‘The priest is to place his hand on the head of the sin offering and slaughter it…Then the
priest is to take some of the blood with his finger and put it on the horns of the altar and
pour out the rest of the blood at the base of the altar…They shall remove all the fat and
the priest shall then burn the bull, ram, or goat on the altar as an aroma pleasing to the
Lord, and in this way the priest will make atonement for the people of Israel, and their
sins will be forgiven…’
Paired almost simultaneously with the ritualistic practice of animal slaughter as the
centerpiece of Judaic worship come the various decrees from Yahweh’s mouth to Israel’s
ear that he–the angry, jealous, vengeful god who has chosen this small, seemingly
insignificant tribe of ne’er do wells to someday run the world–is no longer satiated
with only the slaughter of defenseless animals. Now, having developed a more
‘sophisticated’ sacrificial appetite, he demands that defenseless men, women and
children must suffer the same fate as well, specifically as laid out within several
passages of the Jewish Torah to wit–
‘When the LORD your God brings you into the land you are to possess and casts out the
many peoples living there, you shall then slaughter them all and utterly destroy them…
You shall save nothing alive that breathes…You shall make no agreements with them nor
show them any mercy…You shall destroy their altars, break down their images, cut down
their groves and burn their graven images with fire. For you are a holy people unto the
LORD thy God and He has chosen you to be a special people above all others upon the
face of the earth…’
And there begins a wedding made in hell, where ritualistic, religiously-driven animal
slaughter is paired with war, genocide, invasion and conquest.
Given the inherently supremacist foundation of Judaic thought (‘God’s chosen people’,
‘light unto the world,’ etc) paired with its inherently anti-Gentile disposition, it was just
a matter of time then before the two ideas become merged into one–the equating of
Gentiles as animals who were fit for nothing but either enslavement or ritual slaughter,
and the likely catalyst for this merger was the destruction of the Temple in Jerusalem
in 70 A.D. by the Romans, resulting in the cessation of the Judaic practice of sacrificial
slaughter of livestock for attaining atonement from the Judaic god.
A substitution had to be found therefore if the Judaic community were to maintain
any sense of religious/social cohesiveness…
The fact that Gentiles are referred to disparagingly amongst Jews as ‘Goy’ or
‘Goyim’–the Hebrew equivalent of the word ‘livestock’ or ‘cattle’–is one indication
that this association between non-Jews and livestock (rams, goats, sheep, etc) used
for ritualistic sacrifice has been a fait accompli now for some time. As Israel sinks
deeper and deeper into her Judaism and her ‘Jewishness’, and the more powerful
that the Jewish community becomes, therefore the more ‘comfortable’ certain
political and religious leaders become in voicing ideas that before had to be kept
hidden from the Gentile world for the sake of ‘operational security’. Of the various
statements made in recent history, few compare in revealing this mindset than that
made by Israel’s former Chief Sephardic Rabbi Ovadiah Yusef who stated to wit–
‘Goyim were born only to serve us. Without that, they have no place in the world,
only to serve the People of Israel…Why are gentiles needed? They will work, they
will plow, they will reap. We will sit like an effendi and eat…With gentiles, it will be
like any person: They need to die, but God will give them longevity. Why? Imagine
that one’s donkey would die, they’d lose their money. This is his servant. That’s why
he gets a long life, to work well for this Jew…’
The reaction on the part of the more ‘cautious’ elements within organized Jewish
circles, from the ADL to World Jewish Congress et al was predictable in its utter
duplicity, and unfortunately, swallowed whole hog by the Gentile community. One
by one, powerful Jewish groups and those who lead them lined up to denounce the
Rabbi’s statement despite knowing full well that it reflected the essence of Judaism
and that it forms the foundation of Zionist thinking not only in Israel, but around
the world. Sadly, the Gentiles, not yet comprehending the inherently deceptive
nature of Judaic linguistics and theatrics, believed it, much to their own detriment.
But more effective in revealing the kinds of genocidal tendencies that have come
to plague the Judaic mind than the various statements from Jewish leaders–religious
and political–are the actions of Israel itself. Whereas the various statements
attributed to individuals such as Ovadia Yusef and others can be compared to
the distant howling of wolves announcing their impending arrival, it is the ensuing
slaughter and carnage that best reveals the nature of the beast within.
That the present Holocaust in Gaza is in effect an exercise in ritualized Jewish mass
murder and human sacrifice cannot be disputed by any rational human being. The
deliberate targeting of civilians, the murder of women and children as if the entire
exercise were nothing more than shooting fish in a barrel cannot be equated with
any kind of protective or preventive military operation on the part of a stable, sane
nation state. Operation ‘Defensive Edge’–like all its previous massacres–Jenin, Cast
Lead, etc, etc, etc, is the modern day equivalent of the very same ritual sacrifice
institutionalized within the pages of the Torah and the same human sacrifice depicted
within Apocalypto and for the same reasons–Israel, a nation whose foundation is
rooted in religious strains that demand the blood of innocent, defenseless animals
who cannot escape, the exact situation as pertains to the people of Gaza today.
It is their blood, the Palestinians of Gaza and elsewhere–warm, wet, sticky–that
acts as the glue holding together the nation of mentally ill, religious, racist
nutcases known as Israel.
Indeed, as we read the words of the high priest in Apocalypto as he is about to
plunge the knife into the chest of his captive victim, they might as well be the
words of Benjamin Netanyahu or any of those within his circles–
‘We are a people of destiny…destined to be the masters of all time, destined to
be nearest to the gods…’
‘Great Kulkulkan, whose fury could scourge the earth to oblivion, let us appease
you with this sacrifice…to exalt you in your glory and make our people prosper…’
And, as in Apocalypto, when the citizens of the Mayan superstate roared with
approval as the beating heart of the victim was cut out and the head chopped
off, so too do we hear the roar of Jewry worldwide as the innocent victims of
Gaza are ceremonially murdered on the high altar of Judaic human sacrifice.
Israeli citizens gather at the border with food, drinks and other celebratory
supplies, snapping pics of the carnage in celebrating Gentile slaughter and in
worshipping the Judaic version of the Mayan god Kukulkan.
Not that anyone should be particularly surprised or shocked at this, since Jews
worldwide have gathered together in much the same way to celebrate past
instances of Gentile mass murder in religious ‘Holy Days’ such as Passover,
Purim, Hannakuh and others.
Where the difference lies however between the Mayan superstate and today’s
version of it–Israel–is that the Mayans did not have nuclear weapons with
which to burn down the entire world in one giant human sacrifice. Let all hope
and pray that the rest of the Gentile world–and particularly those with the
military resources to do it–recognize that indeed this is what is in store for
mankind if the beast depicted within both the storyline of Apocalypto and
within the pages of the final book of the Christian New Testament–The
Apocalypse–is not destroyed, for if not, as Jesus Christ Himself predicted,
‘no flesh would survive’.
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http://theuglytruth.files.wordpress.com/2014/07/apocalypto-human-sacrifice.jpg?w=620&h=383
2014 Mark Glenn
http://theuglytruth.wordpress.com
Despite the truly horrifying nature of the theme covered in Mel Gibson’s
2006 blockbuster film Apocalypto–namely the manner by which innocent,
defenseless people are hunted down, captured and later used as human
sacrifices in appeasing the Mayan god Kukulkan , nevertheless what made
the film’s bloody theme and presentation sufferable was the (mistaken)
notion that it was a thing of the past and not of the present…
‘Indeed,’ so the prevailing wisdom goes…‘we’re waaaay past that…old
hat…yesteryear…passe’…water under the bridge and over the dam…’
The problem with this assessment of course is that it’s as disconnected
from reality as the notion that the earth is flat or that babies arrive from
heaven via some delivery service known as Stork Express. Despite not
being recognized as such per se, nevertheless human sacrifice is alive
and well, kicking and screaming in fact–no pun intended–moreso now
than at any other time in human history.
And not just the practice itself, but the reasons for doing so as well.
Now–as then–it involves primitive peoples–barely-humanoid in many
respects–who’ve worked out a business arrangement with some
bad-tempered deity whereby ripping to pieces innocent people results
in rivers of good fortune flowing in their direction, again, no pun
intended…In short time, as the affair becomes ritualistic, ceremonialized
and then institutionalized, it gains ‘official’ status when priests, prophets
and princes participate, at which point the gory business of Murder, Inc
becomes as much a national pastime as feeding people to lions was
to ancient Rome.
Indeed, as dramatized in Apocalypto, the ritual was not some ‘private
matter’ simply between the victim, victimizer and the god who demanded
the blood sacrifice. Rather, it was an open, public event, the beating
heart of the metropolis in fact, complete with gawkers, watchers,
onlookers and ‘true believers’ who cheered madly as hearts were
cut out and heads chopped off.
The only difference between then and now is that today’s human sacrifice
is sexier and sanitized, helped along of course with technology making it
all seem more like an episode of Star Wars rather than a scene out of
Apocalypto. Instead of barely-clad, bone-in-nose, unwashed warriors
running barefoot through the jungle chasing some terrified 2-legged c
reature scheduled to be the main course at a dinner honoring the Mayan
god Kukulkan, we have technicians dressed in the respectable clothing
of military uniforms, sitting behind computer screens, lattes in one hand
while in the other is a joystick attached to a drone that is flown into
3rd-world locales where women and children endure not just having their
hearts cut out, but their entire bodies ripped to shreds via high-yield
explosive warheads.
Read more: Israel’s ‘Operation Protective Edge’–Barbaric human sacrifice taking place in Gaza’s real-life Apocalypto
http://theuglytruth.wordpress.com/2014/07/27/israels-operation-protective-edge-barbaric-human-sacrifice-taking-place-in-gazas-real-life-apocalypto/
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‘Only stones remain’: Gaza lies in ruins
Monday 28th July 2014 at 07:43 By david-icke
http://www.davidicke.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/get-attachment-1123-587x338.jpg
‘Umm Ahmed Abu Sahwish holds stones in her hands. They are now all that’s left of her
demolished home. “My home is gone and only stones remain,” the 65-year-old says.
Hundreds of homes here have been destroyed, and unexploded Israeli missiles litter the
ground at the entrance to the town, at Gaza’s northern tip near the border with Israel.
The local hospital, emergency rescue equipment, and infrastructure have also incurred
heavy damage from Israeli shelling.
Another woman, from a family of 20 people, cries as she tries to dig through the
rubble of her house.’
Read more: 'Only stones remain': Gaza lies in ruins
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You would of thought of all people the Israelites know what happens to Goliath.....
http://blog.hittail.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/David-Vs-Goliath.jpeg
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Jon Snow’s return from Gaza, Palestine July 2014
Monday 28th July 2014 at 07:46 By david-icke
http://www.davidicke.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/get-attachment-616-587x329.jpg
mR1LGoNg5p4
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panopticon
28th July 2014, 20:49
I can't find a longer version of Netanyahu's press conference at the moment.
eYsPgke3E08
-- Pan
panopticon
28th July 2014, 21:01
More on Netanyahu & co's press conference.
###
Israel must be ready for long Gaza campaign: Netanyahu (https://uk.news.yahoo.com/israel-must-ready-long-gaza-campaign-netanyahu-165248835.html)
AFP. 29th July 2014
Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu said Monday Israelis must be ready for a long military campaign in Gaza, after mortar fire from the enclave killed four people in the Jewish state.
"We must be prepared for a lengthy campaign," Netanyahu said in a speech broadcast live, soon after the news of the shelling of the Eshkol region that also reportedly wounded at least 12 people.
"Israeli citizens cannot live with the threat from rockets and from death tunnels -- death from above and from below," he said.
"We will not end this operation without neutralising the tunnels whose sole purpose is killing our citizens," he said, referring to a sophisticated network of cross-border tunnels used by militants to infiltrate southern Israel.
Israel began a major air campaign in Gaza on July 8 to wipe out rocket fire, expanding it with a ground operation on July 17 with the aim of destroying the tunnels.
Dealing with the tunnels was the "first and essential step in demilitarising the Gaza Strip," which along with disarming militants must be part of "any solution, and the international community must insist on it," Netanyahu said.
The Israeli premier also demanded the international community supervise and monitor construction materials entering the Gaza Strip, which he said were used to construct tunnels.
Defence Minister Moshe Yaalon also spoke of a lengthy campaign saying it could take "many more days until the quiet is restored."
And military Chief of Staff Benny Gantz reiterated a warning to civilians in Gaza to stay away from Hamas.
"Gaza residents should distance themselves from areas in which Hamas is acting because we will get there and it will be painful," he said, shortly after the army sent messages to residents living near Gaza City to flee their homes.
"A short while ago, phonecalls were made and text messages were sent out to the civilian population of Shejaiya, Zeitun and eastern Jabaliya calling them to evacuate immediately towards central Gaza City," an army statement said, referring to areas north, south and east of Gaza City.
Shortly afterwards it said it had also sent similar messages to the civilian population of Jabaliya, Beit Hanun and Beit Lahiya in the north.
Source (https://uk.news.yahoo.com/israel-must-ready-long-gaza-campaign-netanyahu-165248835.html)
panopticon
28th July 2014, 21:38
A longer written translation of sections of the 'Statements by PM Netanyahu, DM Yaalon & IDF Chief Gantz' (the IsraeliPM youtube channel (https://www.youtube.com/user/IsraeliPM/videos) has the video in Hebrew, waiting for English if one appears).
###
Netanyahu, Ya’alon, Gantz Address The Media – What They Said (http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/news/headlines-breaking-stories/250626/netanyahu-yaalon-gantz-address-the-media-what-they-said.html)
28th July, 2014.
20:37: Prime Minister Binyamin Netanyahu, Defense Minister Moshe Ya’alon and IDF Chief of Staff Lt.-Gen. Benny Gantz addressed the nation from the Defense Ministry in Tel Aviv a short time ago. Following is excerpts from their statements containing their main points.
PM Netanyahu:
Permit me to console the families whose loved ones fell in defense of our nation.
There is no war more justified than this one
I strengthen the IDF soldiers who are continue their battle in Gaza at this time
We knew there would be difficult days and today is a difficult and painful day
We need resilience to continue towards destroying our enemy
We will not end the operation prior to eliminating the tunnel threat
The tunnels were built with one purpose in mind, to kill our residents
The operation against the tunnels is a first and necessary step towards demilitarizing Gaza
This must be a component of any solution and we will be unyielding in this demand
The international community must stop the funding of Hamas’ cement and supplies used to build the terror infrastructure
We have raised these issues in the past but we were not taken seriously. This must change
Residents of Israel live under constant threat from above and below, rockets and tunnels
Hamas has violated every ceasefire
Hamas is a bitter enemy towards not only our residents, but its own civilians
Hamas seeks more and more casualties among Gaza civilians to use against us
We must be prepared for a prolonged operation until our objectives are reached in defense of our citizens, our children and our land
DM Ya’alon:
It is a difficult day for all of us
At this time the IDF is hitting Hamas targets in Gaza hard
We do not plan to compromise when it comes to the security of our citizens
Terrorists targets will be destroyed along with tunnels
The ongoing Hamas dialogue is rockets and fire and the terror organization is making a big mistake
We will clench our lips and continue fighting until Hamas gets the message
Hamas has been hit hard from land, air and sea in the 21 days, wiping out thousands of terrorist targets
We will not hesitate expanding the operation as required
The IDF is pained at any and all loss of civilian life
When fire is directed at a hospital it is because the site is used as a terror base
Hamas fires from schools, hospitals and uses children and civilians as human shields
This is now clear to the entire world
In the coming days were are completing the issue of the tunnels
During the operation we have witnessed unity and an outpouring of support for our soldiers
You, the citizens, give us the koach to continue this mission towards bringing quiet to the areas
IDF Chief Gantz:
As per the objectives given to us by the political echelon, the IDF has made significant progress
We are dealing with the tunnels that are spread throughout the area
We remain determined as we address tunnel by tunnel, entrance by entrance
We are striking rocket launching facilities and have compromised Hamas’ ability to fire rockets, especially longer range rockets
While Hamas continues to fire rockets, its abilities are far more limited
The attack continues via air, land, sea and intelligence communities
We will attack Hamas in any and every place we have to
Hamas operates in urban settings and intentionally brings the gunfire to the civilians of Gaza
Much of the destruction is due to what Hamas does to itself
We have photos regarding what occurred earlier in Shefa Hospital
We will continue operating with determination, always placing on effort on avoiding civilians causalities
Therefore civilians should distance themselves from the fighting
The soldiers remain tenacious in getting the mission accomplished
We have lost friends, soldiers and commanders but we remain committed to the objectives before us
We expect to continue receiving the backing and endurance of the homefront until these objectives are achieved
I have no doubt the security reality in southern Israel will be improved
Source (http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/news/headlines-breaking-stories/250626/netanyahu-yaalon-gantz-address-the-media-what-they-said.html)
dianna
28th July 2014, 21:57
From Snordster …
Gaza's Real-Life Apocolypto
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qtOQWKsQKiU
sian
28th July 2014, 22:41
Published on 27 Jul 2014
Gazans have been using the lull in the fighting to search for loved ones - and their belongings. Entire neighbourhoods lay in ruin after airstrikes and shelling from Israeli tanks. Al Jazeera's Nicole Johnston reports from Shujaeya in Gaza.
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panopticon
28th July 2014, 22:58
Tonight is being reported as the worst attack in this assault.
300,000 people were sent txt messages to leave where they were a few hours ago.
Reports of firefighters being targeted and ambulances can't get to them because of snipers.
Doctors crying because of what they are seeing -- these are hardened ER doctors.
Messages requesting ambulances at schools where people were sheltering.
Reports UN schools have been shelled.
Reports of exploding "flare bombs" being dropped (which, if true, may be causing the extensive fires being reported).
So many photos...
Reports of bombing like this in Beit Hanoun:
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=673756229374028
Overhead massive flares light up the sky:
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BtqcBtgCMAAX8Ja.jpg
Reports of UN schools, with "displaced refugees" in, being bombed.
-- Pan
panopticon
28th July 2014, 23:57
Report from Al Jazeera on the explosion in the park that killed a number of children and injured many more earlier today.
They were taken to Shifa hospital that was also hit by something.
Reports that Shifa has been hit by Israeli shelling overnight.
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-- Pan
panopticon
29th July 2014, 01:01
RT's live feed here:
http://rt.com/on-air/gaza-operation-israel-military/
Local media offices in this tower were hit earlier:
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BtrCiXCIUAAVOSe.jpg
-- Pan
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