L. Ron Hubbard's Great Grandson Spills the Beans

[Hazel]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0QsCrFANMzc

** Excuse the typo with Hubbard's name on the Thread list folks... have made a request for a mod' to change it :mod:

[sigma6]

I can totally relate. Wow that was heavy, well done. That really was poetic, articulate. Love the art form, brilliant.

It's bizarre that they call it a religion (other then the legal tax implications/definitions, etc) It's applied psychology.

He exposes a good point about them "owning" your information. They actually can't do that ultimately, but I am sure they try to convince people of that limited interpretation.
Who in their right mind would allow someone to take their own private info.

iGlvu_mxF00

[Pam]

Incredibly cool!!!! Love the presentation, I have never seen anything like it.

[Ilie Pandia]

The video in the opening post is a very biased presentation and it's rather judgmental.

Also I think that a gross confusion is made between the L. Ron Hubbard and the Church of Scientology. And even more distinctions could be made between the original intent behind the technology and the current (ab)use of it.

To keep things balanced I do recommend that you read the transcript of this Camelot interview:

http://projectcamelot.org/dane_tops.html

I also suggest reading the Dianetics book (get the one from 1950 if you can).

Only when you have digested the documentations from both(/all) sides of the story you can have an informed opinion, instead of one that was fed to you by somebody else with an agenda.

[Snookie]

The major point being made (and a valid one, that's hard to dispute) is that the church continues to charge exorbitant amounts for all the knowledge they "provide".

[Lifebringer]

The major point being made (and a valid one, that's hard to dispute) is that the church continues to charge exorbitant amounts for all the knowledge they "provide".

When the knowledge is supposed to be given freely in order for the soul/man to grow. Those who charge for it, are no better than the money changers. Now if a person wants to donate, that's one thing, but out right sell it? I don't think that's how it's supposed to go.

[Agape]

I believe that this 'scientology' was created as proposed philosophical counterpart of 'modern scientific thought ' ,
to world whose old 'faiths' together with their legends were shaken enough and disproved enough to satisfy the 'scientific taste' of many people .
It goes along those lines in my insight , Darwinian evolution , 'geneticism' ( now I've created new word obviously ), uncovering the nakedness of human existence and experience - something that has been done already - look at the WWII as its direct predecessor and the way people were made to face the impotence of their own faiths and dogmas , by brute force .
It was born to times where the mass of human consciousness started to doubt and question their own base and substance because it's been tried , tested and confirmed that man can not only made to believe things if you apply skilful methods and conditioning but he can be made to disbelieve them as well .

It goes along the lines of instincts of Freudian psychology, importance of impulses - shocks and pressures in creating 'imprints' of behaviour and imprints of concepts .
It goes far enough to tell you that all your genetic ancestors were so taught and 'imprinted' , so clearing your mind in one life time is nearly impossible unless you can work out all those residual instincts and imprints adopted by your ancestral lineages .

The 'legend' of how did you get to Earth .. is another 'legend' and perhaps one big internal joke of Ron Hubbard , if you think about it carefully . This part is something you have to take on faith ,
it's a vile laughter to face of any other creationists myth knowing that it can't be either proved or disproved by current scientific methods so whatever your faith is will do .
If you believe in Garden of Eden , the Egg of Brahma or a monster Xenu who imprisoned you on this planet and made you believe things .. it ultimately does not matter .

The important thing is obviously 'get rid of your believes' about yourself that were created by someone .. and aren't quite helping you .

It's not a new concept .. it's found in another version in Taoism, Buddhism or Vedanta , only the methods differ . They differ because they were created to fit 'modern man' and his technical and scientific tastes .

It's sort of logical that todays and future mankind is going to trust science and technologies . This has taken some 50 or 60 years to surface now , with the whole boom of computer technologies , biofeedback , various biometric devices that can inform you about your 'past , presence and future' ,
and the stress on 'scientific method' as means how to test and trust ( and know ) yourself .

What EVERY philosophy ultimately misses ... is it's own relativity . The way today scientists see as the peak of understanding, true emptiness of belief and inherent agnosticism is contemporary thought ,
something that may gain some power over time ... yet ... is bound to be challenged by the rising force of global consciousness and new science that will have to incorporate several scientifically 'non-existent' concepts to do with human mind,
with boundaries - or rather lack of- of physical Universe 'as we know it' and with that , limits - limitedness - liminality - of human experience .

For that to happen ... human creative sprit is needed , to proceed and process its memories and experiences rather than wiping them out clean , in order not to create anything new and dysfunctional,
mankind is bound to learn from its memories and mistakes , whether we like it , approve it or not .

Scientology is offering a mirror .. in my opinion... to the limits and methodology of current scientific perspective on human being, being that is an empty vessel that can be taught, programmed, reprogrammed , changed . There are enough people to offer themselves for being guinea pigs at all times ,
and once you start testing and tampering with your mind .. there's no end to it .. unless you make one .
I think that Ron Hubbard had to realise this 'joke' as well and that you can make people believe there's an ultimate goal to be achieved .

If you look at 'mainstream science' , their philosophy and methods , in depth , they do nothing else in long run than what scientology is hoping to achieve in short term using intense methods ,
science of course, they know two important factors are in the game ... evolution of thought ( and science itself ) can't stop..

and secondly, people can't be 'forced' to give up on their faiths at once else there'd be a war . As if there's none.


My bestest :angel:

[Hervé]

I believe ...

[...]

... if you think about it carefully . This part is something you have to take on faith...

[...]

... that maybe true for some; but, for most, it's from their experience with it:


LDW July 10, 2014 at 11:56 pm (http://markrathbun.wordpress.com/2014/07/10/clear-and-beyond/#comment-308750)

The way I see it, I spent most of my life engaged in one sort of cult or another. Boy Scouts had all the ear marks of cultish behavior; the social circles in school, especially high-school had their clubs which many took to be utterly sacred; the fraternity; the cult of pot-smoking hippies; ananda marga yoga; scientology. All of these had their own set of rules, regulations and a definite belief system set up by their own “authorities.”

Probably the cleanest, sanest, least hypocritical and most forthright in terms of stated goals compared to actual achievements was the boy scouts.

As I continue my own personal journey inspecting the aspects of existence I choose to inspect, I’m coming to the conclusion that the decision to be a human on planet earth is actually joining a cult. I also decided it is a self-determined decision to join.

I’ve now had four people in sessions come up with details of one of Hubbard’s mythological events. None of these four people had any prior knowledge of any aspect of the mythology, three of them never even knew there was any mythology involved in Scientology.

That’s a pretty weird coincidence to have four people completely independent of each other come up with details of something as bizarre as these supposed whole-track recollections.

There were striking similarities to each recall. There were similarities to and also striking differences between their recall and the story Ron tells. Story telling and exaggeration were Ron’s fortes. I did for a while, but no longer believe anything Ron says. He did communicate some useful observations. He did, in my opinion, put together some very useful processes. He also created a god-awful cult to espouse his own beliefs.

I have my own beliefs about what can and can’t be done with the tech. These beliefs are based exclusively on what I have and haven’t been able to accomplish with it as an auditor. Obviously, since I’m still auditing, I do feel I can get desirable results with what I do. What can ultimately be acquired from the tech has been grossly exaggerated. This has pulled a lot of people into the cult. It has kept so many more far, far away from it. It is completely unnecessary to exaggerate in order to help people.

Confront the good, the bad and the ugly. Take what you need and leave the rest. You've, yourself, experienced something that you seem to have the hardest time to get across to others... right?

[Agape]

I believe ...

[...]

... if you think about it carefully . This part is something you have to take on faith...

[...]

... that maybe true for some; but, for most, it's from their experience with it:

It's only when you have experience of truth you can discern between truth and fiction. Not prior to that .




You've, yourself, experienced something that you seem to have the hardest time to get across to others... right?


Correct . But considering the complexity of what I've experienced and experiencing .. by that turn .. and putting on two sides of the scale how much this world is prepared to take in and not ,
the complexity of the truth I've witnessed warranties need for larger theory on human species than any of the currently accepted doctrines , an explanation of field theory in hyperspace that would set us level higher from current conceptuality and the same goes for disciplines such as evolutionary biology .
So yes I'm having hard times . But it'd never occur to me to start a philosophical movement about it .. or any other such a movement because that would take us to no ends .

In simple terms ..we can't jump all the hurdles at the same time ..


Besides that .. one thing I quite lost in that 'battlefield of reality' in Bodhgaya was any sort of religious option , an option I think - I had before as teacher , to educate the society and bring out a message . So quite contrary to Rev Hubbard ..I'm but one of my own kind . Not a messiah.

:angel:

[Omni]

One theory is this:
Something called 'Scientology' and the 'new age' were both witnessed on other worlds taking place. This was where old religions crumbled and new belief systems based on critical thinking but open mindedness as well as science were witnessed. Along with an open mind such things could be potent.. Anyway nefarious ETs relayed their witnessing of such things to the US gov, a well done religion based on science/theory, and a wave of shattering of old belief systems(the new age). And the US government sought to make their own bastardized versions of these things because their emergence was imminent eventually. Now maybe it's not right to call scientology bastardized. I don't know a lot about it. But this theory seems like it might be truth to me. Just one possibility of many but I found it intelligent...

[Agape]

One theory is this:
Something called 'Scientology' and the 'new age' were both witnessed on other worlds taking place. This was where old religions crumbled and new belief systems based on critical thinking but open mindedness as well as science were witnessed. Along with an open mind such things could be potent.. Anyway nefarious ETs relayed their witnessing of such things to the US gov, a well done religion based on science/theory, and a wave of shattering of old belief systems(the new age). And the US government sought to make their own bastardized versions of these things because their emergence was imminent eventually. Now maybe it's not right to call scientology bastardized. I don't know a lot about it. But this theory seems like it might be truth to me. Just one possibility of many but I found it intelligent...


I believe so too . It was foreseen if not predicted , the call for 'new religion ' for next millennium and its emergence , it was prevented .
And I think it's probably only right that it was prevented - can't say - but people deserve truth , not another fiction .

If there was a choice .. and lets presume there was a choice looming in the interspace for the proverbial dawn of the new age ,
the weight fell on the truths side .. even if it means that things will get hard for a while instead they could have all been just 'rosy' ( of course that's another science fiction ;) ) for thousand years ,
maybe the 'nefarious ETs' played a catalyser role so in order to prevent them messing up the whole deal , the weight fell on knowing the truth is more important and efforts shall be made in that direction instead .

Not sure it makes full sense but to few of us it probably does.

[Hazelfern]

My thoughts are this: all religions are mind control. Scientology is no worse or no better than any other. I do however, like when someone comes out and upsets the apple cart.

[Gardener]

It's sometimes useful to see and hear the person in question, after listening to this set-up interview I got a better feel for the man behind the mask so to speak.
VHVUUSWR-_8

[Delight]

Tony Ortega has been studying and reporting on Scientology for 20 years. He has thoroughly digested the material.
Here at 18:15 Tony Ortega talks about the ideas behind Dianetics.

mZwtuR-UHLI

[Agape]

.......


It's far from safe situation for what it is now ..

but there has to be a chance left how to fix things . Nothing is ever what it seems .

:sleep:

[araucaria]

One theory is this:
Something called 'Scientology' and the 'new age' were both witnessed on other worlds taking place. This was where old religions crumbled and new belief systems based on critical thinking but open mindedness as well as science were witnessed. Along with an open mind such things could be potent.. Anyway nefarious ETs relayed their witnessing of such things to the US gov, a well done religion based on science/theory, and a wave of shattering of old belief systems(the new age). And the US government sought to make their own bastardized versions of these things because their emergence was imminent eventually. Now maybe it's not right to call scientology bastardized. I don't know a lot about it. But this theory seems like it might be truth to me. Just one possibility of many but I found it intelligent...


I believe so too . It was foreseen if not predicted , the call for 'new religion ' for next millennium and its emergence , it was prevented .
And I think it's probably only right that it was prevented - can't say - but people deserve truth , not another fiction .

If there was a choice .. and lets presume there was a choice looming in the interspace for the proverbial dawn of the new age ,
the weight fell on the truths side .. even if it means that things will get hard for a while instead they could have all been just 'rosy' ( of course that's another science fiction ;) ) for thousand years ,
maybe the 'nefarious ETs' played a catalyser role so in order to prevent them messing up the whole deal , the weight fell on knowing the truth is more important and efforts shall be made in that direction instead .

Not sure it makes full sense but to few of us it probably does.
Here is one strand of this. When John Paul II said, ‘the 21st century will be religious or it will not be at all’, he was misquoting André Malraux, the French writer and culture minister under De Gaulle (he died in 1976), who reportedly said ‘the 21st century will be spiritual or it will not be at all’ – which as we know means something completely different. Actually he denied ever saying that either, and André Frossard, the person he allegedly said it to, claimed that the word he used was in fact mystical.

Whether or not Malraux coined the phrase is neither here nor there. The salient fact is that it was coined by someone, and became distorted. Similar, whether or not John Paul II (or his speech-writer) thought he was making it up or quoting from memory is irrelevant. The salient fact is that the Church (through the pope) put its considerable weight behind the distorted version.

Having said that, one thing Malraux did say perhaps sheds some light on the original idea.


I think that the task in the coming century, facing the most terrible threat that mankind has ever known, will be to reintegrate the gods. This is a pretty accurate description of what is happening, and one readily understands the need to subvert that message.

http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andr%C3%A9_Malraux

[Hazel]

Yes Ilie Pandia good advice to be privy to the bigger picture where possible...

I read the intriguing Camelot transcript of the interview with Dane Tops, which also revealed more about Bill Ryans' path of spiritual development.

Also, I read a 2nd hand copy of the Dyanetics book in the late 90's... but no way of verifying when it was published as it's in storage with much of my other worldly goods. Am curious to reread it... so will when I have the opportunity to do so.

Great to see that OP's video has stirred some enlightening responses!

[Agape]

Here is one strand of this. When John Paul II said, ‘the 21st century will be religious or it will not be at all’, he was misquoting André Malraux, the French writer and culture minister under De Gaulle (he died in 1976), who reportedly said ‘the 21st century will be spiritual or it will not be at all’ – which as we know means something completely different. Actually he denied ever saying that either, and André Frossard, the person he allegedly said it to, claimed that the word he used was in fact mystical.

Whether or not Malraux coined the phrase is neither here nor there. The salient fact is that it was coined by someone, and became distorted. Similar, whether or not John Paul II (or his speech-writer) thought he was making it up or quoting from memory is irrelevant. The salient fact is that the Church (through the pope) put its considerable weight behind the distorted version.

Having said that, one thing Malraux did say perhaps sheds some light on the original idea.



Thanks for the link ... :angel: I thought it might be decent not to show my face in this 'pub' for few days now but crossing my fingers and bridges . ;)

I think that the 'original idea' was timelessly profound , accompanying the expected 'dawn of Aquarius age' ..to rule the human domain for another 2 thousand years .
Uniting faiths and philosophies of all the main religions in new Universal teaching . I think it was exactly meant to be 'spirituality' rather than religion imposing rules and building church from stones .
The benevolent ET element I think is/was extremely important to it because it warrantied introduction and paving a way for laws of universal ethics ,
as are the laws of nonviolence , friendship , non-intrusion, respect to life , compassion ...and so forth .
Uniting humanity in way that could make it more ready to meet the Stars .

I don't think it's useless or obsolete ideal . It will possibly revive itself .. in pure form .. after this 'technical century' is over , not referring to physical time now but evolutionary epoch .

I think , spiritually we were set somewhere on that line .. there was no difficulty .

The Bodhgaya 2002 event was more like major polarity shift , totally unexpected change of direction where I was concerned . The event and whole situation turned to something utterly technical , even if on very high level , practical and not quite weightless .
The ascending force turned to descending force . The truth seemed to literally, dawn on our heads to remind us who we truly are rather than our dreams and imaginations.
So I've experienced it in the 'first front' but my take it is that I did so for many others who did , even not so consciously with me.

It was very 'spiritual' because it was about 'us' . Spirituality is about being naturally yourself , in my opinion , on deeper level perhaps , from inside out .
But it happened to be too pragmatic reality , too hard core - heavy and technical at the same time and the weight of this I'm sure is not easy to process .
It may take long time . I wish I know how long it will even take that I can communicate to someone fully what has happened . Even to encounter another individual who will be fully ready and eager to receive the message .

...

Today morning , after somewhat sleepless night , I'm trying to chase away pigeons from the roof with the same cylindrical straw hat ( Vietnamese people wear them ) I brought with me from Bodhgaya . Someone gave it to me in one of the many temples .
It still holds together . Somehow , the first rays of morning Sun reflected on its surface hit me .. lost pressure .. the next thing I know I am tucked in impossibly narrow space on floor between armchair and book shelf and hit myself to head ;)
It's not serious . The cap in my hand too stayed intact ...

[donk]

Both sides? I was told by a respected LRon lover (and enemy of the church) that my MS symptoms may have been brought on by posting the handwritten scrawlings of that dude...that posting his "sacred text" was irresponsible because it is entity infested & people exposed "before they are ready" could get sick or even die.

There's a "side" that views LRon and his tech as psychopathic, this side feels the "church" is an obvious extension/outcome of that...sure, you can make a cult from the teaching that Jesus is son of god...it's easier though when it's from someone who wants make himself a god in order manipulate reality, looking down on us "Wise Oriental Gentlemen"

[araucaria]

I think that the 'original idea' was timelessly profound , accompanying the expected 'dawn of Aquarius age' ..to rule the human domain for another 2 thousand years .

Yes, and before that the messianism heralding the Piscean Age. It is a painfully long process. We are only just beginning to understand the nature of the blockage while on the brink, and everything is still to be done about removing that blockage.



Take care of yourself, Agape

[Agape]

I think that the 'original idea' was timelessly profound , accompanying the expected 'dawn of Aquarius age' ..to rule the human domain for another 2 thousand years .

Yes, and before that the messianism heralding the Piscean Age. It is a painfully long process. We are only just beginning to understand the nature of the blockage while on the brink, and everything is still to be done about removing that blockage.



Take care of yourself, Agape


If I wanted to 'do that' I'd not know how ..;) I saw light pattern , not of any definable shape but more like drawing of light tubes , few inches wide and tall , reflecting on the hat .. which isn't very reflective surface at all .
Then I'm on the floor between armchair and bookshelf which has doors open , I checked it twice since .. it's extremely funny because if I wanted to fit in there in conscious state it would require quite careful effort not to break the doors for example . It all took no time. Could not figure out if someone is with me here but then I realised probably not so had to pick up myself .


The blockage .... I think that someone , somewhere ... bit smarter , better and wiser than I am has to get the 'light switch' in his head on , Divine sparkle of intelligence ..so we are able to connect the dots .
As I've told to our friend astronomer, any singularity can also disappear ..or 'be disappeared' .
So far , it's but me getting the sparkles :music: Apologies for untimely intrusions to your hyperspace ...

[araucaria]

No apologies needed, Agape: you are falling over backwards to help us, a singularity disappearing behind the armchair and seeing stars in the process:)

I was thinking that a straw hat would not be very reflective, except in a metaphorical sense: round and yellowish - maybe a kind of 'thinking cap'. A glass door would be a better reflector.
Tell me: was there no book in that bookcase trying to catch your attention perhaps? Possibly down low, behind the armchair? Just a thought.

[Agape]

I would call it encounter of 1st kind with light pattern ;) ( without reference to any standard classification scale ) . It's how encounters should happen , in bright light instead in the middle of night as they do usually . The only problem seems to be that we may not be able to bear it .

The hat is quite unique .. at least for me .. maybe it even carries some of the Bodhgaya energy . I think it's from Laos originally but Indian priest gave it to me , in one temple . It's perfect thing to wear to protect you from sunlight .

Yes of course ... the book 'case' has all sorts of spiritual literature tucked down there, from many years ago ... the holiest of holy ;) This is an old photo ( of the top ) and the heavy armchair is right next to it .

http://i290.photobucket.com/albums/ll256/PaldenLhamo/Evee/PICT0035.jpg (http://s290.photobucket.com/user/PaldenLhamo/media/Evee/PICT0035.jpg.html)


The two Tibetan thangkas above are Guru Padmasambhava - Panchabuddha Mandala on the left ( it comes from Zanskar / Ladakh ) and the one on the right is Dharma Protector Nechung , it's very old and was very damaged when I got it but I could fix it own efforts .
It may explain a little bit since Nechung literally means 'little space' and there's whole story to the origin of this patron and protective deity of Tibet ...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nechung

so maybe we've figured that out ...


...

Forgot to mention that Barry fell down to bushes last Friday ( fence he recently cut down to foot ) , cut his face and broke glasses . Quite more serious accident but he had seen doctor and is hopefully recovering ..

It's hard to say why do things happen at odd times .

[TrumanCash]

Here is a more recent presentation by Jamie DeWolf (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KRUYESI3v3c) in which he reveals that his family verified Hubbard's connection with Aleister Crowley's occult practices of sex magick, etc.

A very good friend of mine recently verified Hubbard's sex magick practices (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?52786-MATRIX-REVEALED-Analysis-Solutions&p=838926&viewfull=1#post838926), i.e., one of Hubbard's many "Scarlet Women (http://www.foreverandaday.biz/Pages_info/AleisterWomen.html)".

Their are two problems, however, with Jamie DeWolf's information because he never knew L. Ron Hubbard (Senior) and he never experienced Scientology counseling called "auditing", which can be an effective tool for self-improvement.

If one wants to know about the real L. Ron Hubbard all one has to do is listen to and read the testimonies of the people who actually knew L. Ron Hubbard and were close to him. One can spend a few weeks on YouTube and search engines examining a massive library about the man, both pro and con.

I suggest starting with Bill Franks, who was like a CEO of Scientology, who knew Hubbard personally. Here is a YouTube interview with Bill Franks (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i2r2Nd6OJT4).

Also, here is a very revealing presentation by Hana Whitfield (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qd00GtwXcYQ) who was a captain of one of Hubbard's ships.

Also, one of Hubbard's mistresses was a psychologist and she describes him here (http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/Library/Shelf/miller/interviews/barbkaye.htm).

People in Scientology are told lies about L. Ron Hubbard. I know this because I was a staff member in a Scientology organization. I've spent several months on the internet finding out about the real L. Ron Hubbard--the good, bad and the ugly--and have been doing an analysis on the Matrix Revealed thread starting here (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?52786-MATRIX-REVEALED-Analysis-Solutions&p=838926&viewfull=1#post838926).

Here is a sampling of some other people who personally knew Hubbard who revealed Hubbard's dark side: David Mayo (http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/Library/Shelf/miller/interviews/mayo.htm), Gerry Armstrong (http://www.xenutv.com/blog/category/legal-videos/individuals/scientology-v-gerry-armstrong/), Steve "Sarge" Pfauth (https://markrathbun.wordpress.com/tag/steve-sarge-pfauth/), Jesse Prince (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BoXnKJjVrSU), and others too numerous to mention.

One of the best books on Hubbard is BARE-FACED MESSIAH, which can be downloaded free of charge here (http://www.holysmoke.org/cos/books/bare-faced-messiah.pdf).

From the information gathered from the numerous firsthand eyewitness accounts of L. Ron Hubbard's behavior, it is evident that he was a pathological liar, he falsely imprisoned people (even small children) in horrific and dangerous environments (like the chain locker (http://www.spaink.net/cos/mpoulter/worst/lockers.html) on the ship), subjected people to sleep deprivation, extremely hard labor with food restrictions and no toilet facilities, engaged in violent activities having people thrown off the ship, humiliated and abused people, routinely cheated on his wives, was obsessed with money and power (http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/Library/Shelf/miller/interviews/mayo.htm), engaged in criminal activities such as operation "Snow White" that got his wife and several others thrown in federal prison, and ordered the murder (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i2r2Nd6OJT4) of a number of people including political leaders in England. Even David Mayo, Hubbard's top technical person, reported a murder attempt after Hubbard betrayed him and wanted him "squashed like a cockroach". He made many fraudulent medical claims (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medical_claims_in_Scientology_doctrine) in the book DIANETICS: THE MODERN SCIENCE OF MENTAL HEALTH and in other writings and lectures which got him in trouble with the FDA.

In short, the personal testimonies of numerous people who knew him reveal that Hubbard was in fact a criminal sociopath.

However, in spite of Hubbard's sociopathic behavior, he and many other people who helped him in the research developed some valid and effective tools for self-improvement. Nothing is all black or all white. Even sociopaths can have a good side. Unfortunately, many Scientologists, ex-Scientologists, independent Scientologists, and FreeZoners do not take the time to find out and confront the real L. Ron Hubbard. It is only when one realizes that Hubbard was a sociopath and liar that one can separate the wheat from the chaff, the facts from the fictions. As Bill Franks has reported (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i2r2Nd6OJT4), even some of the "tech" was flawed and used to control and harm people. This, of course, does not mean that it was all bad. There was a significant amount of effective techniques developed that should not be overlooked, but it was not perfect--It was tainted by Hubbard's sociopathic behavior and obsession with money and power. When one understands who Hubbard really was one can begin to discern the valid information from the false information.

In the words of a mind control expert, Mark Phillips (http://www.trance-formation.com/), "Mind control equals information control." Ever since he first stated that principle to me I have looked at life and seen the obvious truth in that.

[Hazel]

The bigger picture, ever expands...

thank you TrumanCash

recapper

[Hervé]

Well, in a world of psyops and co-intelpros, something is working:


From An interview with 'Dane Tops' (http://projectcamelot.org/dane_tops.html):


Ron was already a sick prisoner in his own situation, with child vultures waiting for him to die so they could take over. Top executives were made prisoners too, like a hard labor camp, and they couldn’t get out. Again the best of the best made into slaves.

Sort of like the Chinese Cultural Revolution, where you murder the greatest in your county. Take down the artists, the inventors, and the most educated. People in the Church were subdued and horrified and couldn’t believe it was all happening. Totally betrayed.

For years the government disinfo campaign continued until now. Hubbard is thoroughly maligned in public and made to look like a charlatan and a lying thief and criminal who was out to make money in a giant scam. And of course that IS what the Church had become. Pretty ironic.

So there were people that tried to contact him, but his abilities were impaired and so were those of others, total intimidation and fear of being kicked out.

K: Okay, so just to tie this up: you wrote the letter, you sent it out, and you got the reaction. The organization had already started crumbling, and then could you talk about what you think the reaction to the letter, how that sort of exacerbated any crumbling of the organization.

D: Well it totally did, and from then on out that letter was used by each sector that left. It was very much like Martin Luther and the Catholic Church.

It was like that. It was a huge organization, and it was worldwide. It was even in the communist countries, and it was hard for Scientology to get into the communist countries, just like it is for Christians. It was not an appropriate philosophy for communists. But it was like a worldwide schism with people leaving in droves.


K: So people kind of used that as a manifesto, in a sense?

D: Yeah. Exactly. They used it as their manifesto, and they left the organization with the concept that they were going to carry on the techniques, the part of truth that they had of it. And they tried, but it mostly did not carry on.

People were affected by all the evilness attributed to Hubbard in a giant campaign financed by black ops. They actually paid some Scientologists to write disinfo, and paid others to shut up.

But my highest wish was not that everyone leave, but that they would en masse demand justice and in numbers break down the walls that protected those who were abusing power and let us GET to Ron directly. That step was missed.

So the letter was used not to create a revolution of redress out of justified rage, but an exodus. People were already too beaten, too hopeless, sort of like the USA is today. They did NOT get the point of the letter and look for the Third Party at all. The people blamed Ron Hubbard and personally felt betrayed by him. That’s exactly what the government wanted. The power in the organization was lost when so many left.

The government had to continue to malign and discredit the founder SO THAT the techniques were not carried on in their purest forms. Everyone was manipulated to feel completely betrayed by Hubbard for the government operation to be successful.

We were chicken, and were helpless to organize, confront, and tear down city hall. I and others looked within the organization for the Third Party. We never hunted down and found the Third Party. The third party was the black ops government of the USA. They took it down and now they own it. It’s run by ego and power now.

In public, Ron was more and more made to look as if all he was doing was stealing money, and that he was a total quack. His discoveries were maligned and within a few years, even the people who were proponents felt so personally betrayed by Ron and blamed him so badly that they no longer practiced the techniques with as much care.

Slanderous books were written about Hubbard. The government bought off the whistleblowers within the organization who were trying to openly expose nefarious activities.

Individual loners came out and tried to get to the bottom of the corruption and expose it, but they never found the Third Party. The Church paid them big sums to shut up and never speak in public.

A few people I know actually went berserk, some of the highest most experienced people just lost their minds over it all and bought the bag about Ron, felt utterly disillusioned about the human race even.

We were in it to save the fate of the planet, the very fate Ron predicted that we’re facing right now, and so the people felt that Ron had betrayed the planet and all mankind and that it was all a sham that we were taken and a part of it.

The government did a massive campaign against him and it all worked. The full original techniques are no longer really employed, except in comparatively small so-called splinter groups, not the way it was in the 50s when it was a giant wave, a giant movement.

It’s not an organization that can deal with what happening on the planet... you end up with all these hyperdimensional entities – and ETs, the organization can’t do it. We didn’t evolve large numbers of highly capable people who have real power to go up against the things we’re facing now.

Of course, there are a few, very capable people indeed, mostly operating very quietly and effectively and without any fuss, and they are getting things done. But in numbers, we even now could really still count, even without super abilities individually.

We still could win with certain basic truths and skill-sets. There are some organizations that are excellent. But not enough of them yet.

B: I’ve never actually seen anyone levitate, but I’d say that’s a magic trick, and maybe it doesn’t really matter.

D: It’s not a “magic trick” - and it does matter! These kinds of things matter, to be able to do those things, to read minds. The ETs have abilities like that as a matter of course, and we can also.

[...]

B: Okay. There are techniques that are certainly a form of abuse, but I think this isn’t a failed experiment, and I want to let you know this personally.

D: I’m very aware of what you’re talking about. I mean, my friend here, he knows Captain Bill Robertson, he’s trained in Bill’s techniques, and he knows the people who deliver it. So I’m familiar.

But when I say it’s failed I mean that there was an inspired worldwide movement, and that was destroyed.

The real thing that was lost is the progressive ability to face larger and larger forces and manifestations of energies, and how to actually get a spiritual energy-entity to – independent of their body and everything else – to manifest a larger and larger power, so much so that they, themselves, are the equivalent and equal of these hyper-dimensional entities, but positive ones. We could do more good with large numbers of us.

The ability ... the techniques of manifesting in such massive ways are not utilized and sought after and the techniques that my small group discovered are not utilized and are not out there. Just like all the techniques of your organization are not utilized in large enough venues, more people, in other words, a sense of an Earth-Mission like we once had.

When the Dane Tops letter came out, I had correspondence with people where I hinted at some of the things my small group was doing and we were offered full support. We were offered a castle in Scotland by a guy named Robin Scott; he later felt betrayed, like so many others.

But at that time, after the letter got to Europe, he offered full support to my small group to carry on with the work that we were doing because I said a few things in some of these private letters that interested and excited him.

Well, today, all those people would be highly biased over any claims. The sense of betrayal after so much trust of Ron ruined people. Bill Robertson was not betrayed openly. But on some level he had to have been very upset. He and Ron were close friends.

Who knows, if his techniques were proving effective, the government would want to take Bill Robertson down too.

So I’m just saying it’s not that there aren’t great techniques still in use and there’s some splinter groups, like Captain Bill – who founded one of the best splinter groups, I believe. If I’d known him, I believe he would have incorporated what our little group was doing, or we would have incorporated him.

But the real wealth of the subject is no longer flowing out, exploding into the world. The death toll that’s about to be extracted from our planet is imminent and we as a planet are appallingly ignorant.

It would not have been so if the mission that Ron Hubbard was doing succeeded. We were a brave and emotionally powerful bunch. We were a passionate purpose on fire.

That "third party" hasn't gone anywhere and is still manipulating Earth's and humans' affairs hidden in their different densities/dimensions...

[donk]

Well, in a world of psyops and co-intelpros, something is working:


.

That "third party" hasn't gone anywhere and is still manipulating Earth's and humans' affairs hidden in their different densities/dimensions...[/QUOTE]

And just think, if only more people were as great as LRon and applied his wonderful “tech” better than the “3rd party” could not win. Poor LRon, all these liars out there employed making up all these crazy stories about him. Luckily he dropped his body and is a more effective being so we should see a big LRon “win” any day now, right? I mean, I thought he preached about how great his “total freedom” was, right?

Well, now he’s free of his body…how can this 3rd party be stronger than him? How can his legacy be so defiled still, his tech so harmfully employed?

[Cidersomerset]

It's sometimes useful to see and hear the person in question, after listening to this set-up interview I got a better feel for the man behind the mask so to speak.


Source: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VHVUUSWR-_8

There was not much sinister in this interview apart from the use
of the term 'proccessing' which has conertations of 1984, NAZI
SOVIET and other doctrines . With out going into any more
deeper techniches which they maybe into now.

What he said in the interview sounded like a improve yourself.
Self esteem tape. Make more money , How to stop your wife leaving
you etc. It was of its time and what they are up to now probably
differs from his original concepts of what is the meaning of life.
It sounds like a money making scam from this interview like,
celebrity workout tapes, Paul McKenna Weight or stop smoking tapes.

Paul McKenna Weight Loss System NLP Hypnosis Part 1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wfCo_MJkE5U


His spiritual views that we are eternal spirits having an experience
in these 'meat sack' bodies is the basis of all religions and alternate
beliefs.

As for the rest of the bollocks at the end of the tape claims for this
and that well if that is what Scientology has become, that's up to
them....... If there is more sinister aspects to this then it should
be exposed, but in the end of the day every adult should be free
to believe what they wish....

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


I've started listening to the second tape and he is starting off saying
its a scam to buy more books and tapes by slightly changing them..


Tony Ortega has been studying and reporting on Scientology for 20 years. He has thoroughly digested the material.
Here at 18:15 Tony Ortega talks about the ideas behind Dianetics.

Source: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mZwtuR-UHLI