Malaysian Plane MH17 shot down with over 295 on board. But by who?

[Roisin]

This is a really "strange" story....


Rebel leader gives bizarre account of plane crash (http://www.montereyherald.com/world/ci_26173524/rebel-suggests-malaysia-plane-victims-long-dead)

A top pro-Russia rebel commander in eastern Ukraine has given a bizarre version of events surrounding the Malaysian jetliner crash — suggesting many of the victims may have died days before the plane took off.

The pro-rebel website Russkaya Vesna on Friday quoted Igor Girkin as saying he was told by people at the crash site that "a significant number of the bodies weren't fresh," adding that he was told they were drained of blood and reeked of decomposition.

Girkin said "Ukrainian authorities are capable of any baseness."

He claimed that a large amount of blood serum and medications were found in the wreckage.



Wow! That's interesting because when I was viewing very graphic photo's of that crash, the same thing crossed my mind wrt to at least one of the bodies seen in one of those photo's. It looked more like an old corpse (bloodless)..... There was another one that sorta looked like that too.


-------
update: Just read Selene's comment on S.F's post and what she said may be a possible explanation on those appearance of some of those bodies. How sad....

[Operator]

...
Are they wagging the dog?

0XOnCckiYlk
...


In this video they raise good questions ... some concerns I had too when seeing it before.
One very suspicious moment is when you freeze the frame at 2:13 ... there is one passport
with a big hole in it (lowest one on the ground).

These holes are punched in a passport to make them invalid after they are replaced by a
new one ... so :bs: ?!?

The piece of debris that they show starting at 4:05 is too square IMHO. Look at the
left side it looks like it is straight cut with a torch ... the surroundings totally not
scorched in a field of fresh untouched grass.

Also the people wandering around the wreckage are low in number and while the plane
was not even halfway I would expect a bigger inferno smoldering for days like the
'Bijlmerramp (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bijlmerramp)' left us with in October of 1992.

http://www.spitsnieuws.nl/sites/default/files/imagecache/article_image_node_slideshow/2103bijlmerramp.jpg.crop_display.jpg

Something about this is, to say the least, a bit fishy ... :suspicious:

[yelik]

Could this be the same plane that went missing?

[Hervé]

[...]

... One very suspicious moment is when you freeze the frame at 2:13 ... there is one passport
with a big hole in it (lowest one on the ground).

These holes are punched in a passport to make them invalid after they are replaced by a
new one ... so :bs: ?!?

[...]

Re: cancelled passports: There are instances when a passport bearer can retain a cancelled passport and that is when said passport contains a visa that's still valid. Accordingly, there should be two passports in a same name; one valid and current and the other one cancelled but containing a valid visa.

[Rocky_Shorz]

When I saw this article a couple of days ago I thought
brace yourself.........It could be coincidence.....

VexU17zRPZo

Published on 15 Jul 2014


The emerging economies signed a long-anticipated document to create a $100
billion BRICS Development Bank. The institution will counter the influence of
Western lending firms as well as the dollar. DETAILS: http://on.rt.com/afyr6y

for those who still haven't put together the pieces this might help...

this was an assassination attempt on Putin who was due to fly this exact path 30 minutes later, in a plane with almost identical markings.

2 Ukrainian fighter jets were following the airplane shot out of the sky, they did not defend, or attack ground targets that just blasted a plane from the sky...

[Cidersomerset]

This is a really "strange" story....




Quote Rebel leader gives bizarre account of plane crash

A top pro-Russia rebel commander in eastern Ukraine has given a bizarre version of events surrounding the Malaysian jetliner crash — suggesting many of the victims may have died days before the plane took off.

The pro-rebel website Russkaya Vesna on Friday quoted Igor Girkin as saying he was told by people at the crash site that "a significant number of the bodies weren't fresh," adding that he was told they were drained of blood and reeked of decomposition.

Girkin said "Ukrainian authorities are capable of any baseness."

He claimed that a large amount of blood serum and medications were found in the wreckage.

I'm watching the BBC news now and the reporter in the crash
area is commenting on the bloating bodies......Although I think
these were genuine passengers , judging by the reports from
the Dutch Airport and around Europe.


http://static.bbci.co.uk/frameworks/barlesque/2.60.9/desktop/3.5/img/blq-blocks_grey_alpha.png

KRXRoBjfaTs

MH17 hit by missile from rebel-held Ukraine - Obama3 hours ago

US President Barack Obama has said a surface-to-air missile fired from a rebel-held
area in east Ukraine brought down Malaysia Airlines flight MH17.

The plane crashed on Thursday, killing all 298 people on board.

Mr Obama called the attack "an outrage of unspeakable proportions", saying he
would ensure "the truth is out".

The US and Russia clashed at the UN Security Council, with Russia's envoy putting
the blame on Ukraine for its army's attacks on eastern areas.

BBC Moscow correspondent Daniel Sandford reports from the crash site in Grabova.


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-28362338


===================================================


Something still feels wrong little things , the BBC reporter allowed in the area
from the Russian side so quick and its release on U'tube quicker than usual,
from the BBC web site.

====================================================

'It is suspicious the plane has deviated from the route it usually takes'

NzbNi7JpMy4

Published on 18 Jul 2014


As the world mourns the tragic loss of 298 people in Malaysian Airlines plane crash
over Ukraine, questions have arisen over unusual circumstances of the tragedy. RT
talks to Wireless Communications professor Mischa Dohler.

[Xanth]

Attached is the Spanish Air Traffic Controller in Kiev tweets from his twitter account during the event, which I've translated from Spanish to English using google translate.
The twitter account appears to no longer exists. The record comes from google cache, and may soon disappear ... so I've uploaded a screenshot of the translation ...

I've no way to determine if the tweets are fake, but it looks like it adds to the body of evidence ... so people can make up their own minds ...

Added: Globalresearch article about same info
http://www.globalresearch.ca/spanish-air-controller-kiev-borispol-airport-ukraine-military-shot-down-boeing-mh17/5391888


There's also a link to an interview with the guy in spanish from RT (for any spanish speakers out there :)) .
http://actualidad.rt.com/actualidad/view/127516-amenazar-controlador-espanol-ucrania-crisis

http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:twitter.com/spainbuca (Original Spanish)

[Cidersomerset]

for those who still haven't put together the pieces this might help...

this was an assassination attempt on Putin who was due to fly this exact path 30 minutes later, in a plane with almost identical markings.

2 Ukrainian fighter jets were following the airplane shot out of the sky, they did not defend, or attack ground targets that just blasted a plane from the sky...



17 July 2014 Putin's IL-96 jet targeted, similiar to Qaddafi's jet on 27 June 1980 - Ustica Massacre


35OfMUgQCuk


Published on 18 Jul 2014


On Quisling's birthday - 18 July 2014, Russia Today reveals that Vlad Putin's presidential jet
was targeted by NATO's Nazi GenSec Stoltenberg to be shot down, in a similar fashion that
Muammar al-Gaddafi's jet was targeted by Stoltenberg Egge Riis Harald Hauge & Co on 27
June 1980 over Tyrrhenian Sea at Ustica

This version was supported in particular by investigative magistrate Rosario Priore in 1999.[9]
Judge Priore said in his concluding report that his investigation had been deliberately obstructed
by the Italian military and members of the secret service, in compliance with NATO requests.[9]
In April 1993, the General Yuri Salimov, the Russian intelligence services, revealed that he had
followed the events of Ustica through a Russian radar based in Libya, through the use satellite
was able to monitor the southern Tyrrhenian Sea, "I saw that U.S. missile strike in error the DC-9".
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aeroline...

Reports that Putin flew similar route as MH17, presidential airport says 'hasn't overflown Ukraine for long time'
Published time: July 17, 2014 18:13
Edited time: July 18, 2014 04:29

AFP Photo / Alexei Nikolsky
Download video (4.13 MB)
http://img.rt.com/files/news/2a/66/80...

Malaysian Airlines MH17 plane was travelling almost the same route as Russia's President Vladimir
Putin's jet shortly before the crash that killed 298, Interfax news agency reports citing sources.

LIVE UPDATES:Malaysia Airlines MH17 plane crash in Ukraine

"I can say that Putin's plane and the Malaysian Boeing intersected at the same point and the same
echelon. That was close to Warsaw on 330-m echelon at the height of 10,100 meters. The presidential
jet was there at 16:21 Moscow time and the Malaysian aircraft - 15:44 Moscow time," a source told
the news agency on condition of anonymity.

"The contours of the aircrafts are similar, linear dimensions are also very similar, as for the coloring,
at a quite remote distance they are almost identical", the source added.

At the same time, there have been reports contradicting Intefax's report that was the first and the
only media source to publish the news, saying that Presidential plane was not flying over Ukraine at
the same time.

As a source told Gazeta.ru online news portal, Putin's plane does take off from Vnukovo-3 [the terminal
that accepts business jets], but the president does not fly over the conflict-gripped neighboring country.

"Putin has only one jet -- Board One, he does not fly other planes. This plane always takes off from
Vnukovo-3, but the presidential plane have not been flying over Ukraine for a while," the source at
Vnukovo-3 terminal said.

President Putin was on his way from Brazil, where he attended the BRICS summit, to Moscow.
'Tragedy would't have taken place if there was peace in Ukraine'

Ukraine should bear responsibility for Malaysian airliner tragedy, said the head of the Russian state
at a meeting on economic issues, which he proposed to start with a minute of silence in memory of
the victims of the disaster.

"Obviously, the state over whose territory it happened bears responsibility for this terrible tragedy,"
he said late on Thursday.

"This tragedy would not have happened if there was peace on this land, if military action in the
southeast of Ukraine had not been resumed," Putin said, adding that he has asked the appropriate
Russian authorities to do everything to investigate the matter.

"We must do everything in our power that an objective picture of what happened goes public in our
community, in Ukraine and all over the world," Putin said as he expressed his condolences to the
families of victims.

Flight MH17 crashed in Ukraine on a flight from Amsterdam to Kuala Lumpur, and was carrying 298 people.
The passenger Boeing-777 was expected to enter Russian airspace at 5:20pm local time, but never did,
a Russian aviation industry source said."The plane crashed 60km away from the border," Itar-Tass cited its source.
http://rt.com/news/173672-malaysia-pl...

Did MH17 pilot divert INTO the danger zone? Aviation expert claims captain made last-minute change of
course over Ukraine because he 'felt uncomfortable' Russian military expert claims pilot radioed his concerns
about the route before diverting over rebel-held territory Russian media explores theory that Ukrainian armed
forces shot down Boeing 777 after mistaking it for Putin's jet Kremlin leader was flying back to Moscow from
Brazilian World Cup at around same time passenger plane crashed Russian aviation sources said the routes
of the two planes 'crossed at the same point and on the same altitude'
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/artic...

[MorningSong]

This is from an article at kyivpost.com:


Kremlin-backed insurgents now claim Malaysia Airlines plane was carrying corpses
July 18, 2014, 6:03 p.m.

.......................

According to Girkin, the plane’s passengers were already dead when the plane went down.

“I just talked to two people who were gathering corpses, both from Shakhtarsk (the city where the plane crashed) so they came to the spot only 30 minutes after the tragedy. I am writing from their words. They said many corpses were totally bloodless and looked like blood had clotted long before the catastrophe,” the leader of Russian backed insurgents wrote.

Сiting the same locals, Girkin also said a strong putrid smell was noticed in the area of the plane crash. “This smell could not have appeared in a half an hour in any weather, and it was cloudy, not very hot yesterday,” he wrote. According to the terrorist leader there was a special medical cargo on board.

In the same statement Girkin-Strelkov admitted plane pilots were alive and did die as a result of the crash. “The cabin, and its front is in a good condition, is literally spilled with their blood all over,” he wrote.

Although the new version of the plane crash provided by the insurgents seems absurd enough to ignore, there actually is proof that it is wrong. The video footage from inside the plane just a few moments before it took off was found on the Instagram account of one of the passengers, Malaysian native, Md Ali Md Salim, who was flying back home from Amsterdam. A short 13 seconds video shows other passengers stowing their luggage.

(see vid at link)

http://www.kyivpost.com/content/ukraine/kremlin-backed-insurgents-now-claim-malaysia-airlines-plane-was-carrying-corpses-356780.html

[SilentFeathers]

Once again involving a Malaysian 777, "something weird is going on"..............

There really is no reason for anyone on the scene to suggest "some" of the bodies were drained of blood and seemed to have been dead perhaps for days previous to the crash, well, unless they actually appeared and or were that way.

[Cidersomerset]

Three RT reports just released on their web site from todays
news, they are covering various aspects , some already
discussed from other sources and outlets......




Kiev leaks phone call 'proving self-defense forces downed MH17'

SI2vyppJeF4

================================================

UNSC holds emergency meeting over MH17 crash


dBsR7_2naxk

Published on 18 Jul 2014


Russia has lashed out at the U.S. for shifting blame in the Ukrainian crisis,
that's after Moscow faced mounting accusations at an emergency meeting
of the UN Security Council over the tragic plane crash. That's despite Russia
denying any involvement. RT's Marina Portnaya's been following the session
in New York.

===================================================


'Confusion on MH17 crash points to importance to thorough investigation'


YAVKfgbXRDo


Published on 18 Jul 2014


If the passenger jet was shot down, there only a limited number of weapons in the
region that could have been responsible. One possibility is the Buk surface-to-air
missile system. Several former Soviet countries use the weapon, including Ukraine.
It has the ability to hit up to 24 targets at the same time within a distance of 45
kilometers, and reaching an altitude of 25 kilometers. Its missiles travel at up to
1,200 meters per second. But as yet, there is no confirmation that this weapon
system was the cause of the crash. For more RT is joined by former UK army officer
Charles Shoebridge.

[jerry]

Was Malaysian Airliner Brought Down By A Missile To Start A War With Russia
6xHLnBSAnUY

[SilentFeathers]

I'm bumping this post as I personally see this as one of the most bizarre claims yet pertaining to this event, and I also see absolutely no motive or logical reasoning for anyone to make this up or to even consider making something like this up. This person is also claiming "MANY" of the bodies appeared this way, so IMO that pretty much tells me they were not looking at a few dead bodies being transported in the cargo hold heading to be buried in another country.

Something really weird is going on once again and these first 48 hours after the event are what we should be paying the most close attention too regardless of how ridiculous certain things sound like, like this bizarre claim. In another day or so there will be so many bs stories going around that many of us will forget what has happened within this first 48 hours.

I personally think this story/claim means something.....what? I haven't much of a clue yet but do have a couple of theories (which are bizarre too)!!!!


This is a really "strange" story....


Rebel leader gives bizarre account of plane crash (http://www.montereyherald.com/world/ci_26173524/rebel-suggests-malaysia-plane-victims-long-dead)

A top pro-Russia rebel commander in eastern Ukraine has given a bizarre version of events surrounding the Malaysian jetliner crash — suggesting many of the victims may have died days before the plane took off.

The pro-rebel website Russkaya Vesna on Friday quoted Igor Girkin as saying he was told by people at the crash site that "a significant number of the bodies weren't fresh," adding that he was told they were drained of blood and reeked of decomposition.

Girkin said "Ukrainian authorities are capable of any baseness."

He claimed that a large amount of blood serum and medications were found in the wreckage.

[Taurean]

Neither the Ukranians, Ukranian Rebels, or the Russians have anything to gain by committing an atrocity such as this.

However if you wanted to shape World Public Opinion into believing that they are all savage "Bastards" in this part of the world, then I think you've got to look in the direction of the SSG, (Secret Shadow Government), and Black Ops who are only interested in Stoking the Fires towards the ultimate objective of WWIII.

[Selene]

While I was initially inclined to discount the ‘missed Putin’s plane’ theory as a red herring here, on further consideration it does have some significant merit.

The Official Story/Plan A here is the Horrific Public Outrage ploy: 300 innocent civilians die needlessly, etc. The usual false flag drama, again. Bad guys here are eventually the Russians. Okay. We know that one.

But suppose that strategy is old news and, for the sake of argument, they were double dipping instead. Consider the High Value Assassination/Plan B takeout: Kill a key NWO opponent (this has considerable precedent) and blame the other guys anyway. This also has a considerable historic track record.

In the second case, eliminating Putin would undoubtedly please a lot of people of a certain type: he’s foiled their war on Syria, the attacks on Iran, sponsored the new BRICS world bank/currency alternative, is cozy with China – the list goes on. And if they could do that and blame the patsy Ukraine government or the Russians themselves.... Merde! (pardon....) Double! And just imagine the leaderless and destabilizing pandemonium in Russia with Putin’s death! Perfect! No matter how the fallout plays out, they will have gotten rid of a major “problem” even if they don’t trigger WW3 this time.

But mistakes (or white hats?) do happen. Suppose one of Putin’s KGB friends/double agents pulled strings and the Malaysia flight just happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time? Suppose, just for the sake of argument, again, that those military jets were tricked into using MH as a DECOY, spoofed into escorting it as Putin’s plane? And the Ukrainian/Russian/whomever forces were fooled into shooting down the ‘wrong’ Putin plane, by whatever means.... Of course the naive shooters would have been told the plane was loaded with... whatever.

Trickery? Lies? Nah. Nobody would ever do a thing like that, would they?

Just speculating.

Cheers,

Selene

[Taurean]

I still find it hard to believe commercial airliners would be flying any where near this part of the world and what we are looking at on the ground is MH 370.

Stinks of a Sandy Hook type News Story to me.

[Agape]

I'm bumping this post as I personally see this as one of the most bizarre claims yet pertaining to this event, and I also see absolutely no motive or logical reasoning for anyone to make this up or to even consider making something like this up. This person is also claiming "MANY" of the bodies appeared this way, so IMO that pretty much tells me they were not looking at a few dead bodies being transported in the cargo hold heading to be buried in another country.

Something really weird is going on once again and these first 48 hours after the event are what we should be paying the most close attention too regardless of how ridiculous certain things sound like, like this bizarre claim. In another day or so there will be so many bs stories going around that many of us will forget what has happened within this first 48 hours.

I personally think this story/claim means something.....what? I haven't much of a clue yet but do have a couple of theories (which are bizarre too)!!!!


This is a really "strange" story....


Rebel leader gives bizarre account of plane crash (http://www.montereyherald.com/world/ci_26173524/rebel-suggests-malaysia-plane-victims-long-dead)

A top pro-Russia rebel commander in eastern Ukraine has given a bizarre version of events surrounding the Malaysian jetliner crash — suggesting many of the victims may have died days before the plane took off.

The pro-rebel website Russkaya Vesna on Friday quoted Igor Girkin as saying he was told by people at the crash site that "a significant number of the bodies weren't fresh," adding that he was told they were drained of blood and reeked of decomposition.

Girkin said "Ukrainian authorities are capable of any baseness."

He claimed that a large amount of blood serum and medications were found in the wreckage.




See , I know this is very distasteful and yes very bizarre statement ... but the same man and his people , till this moment do not have the guts to come out and say who fired at the plane ?
And if they did not , lets presume for a moment, give them an option, then again why we hear no statement from them 'no we did not do that' ?

Those unofficial leaks from these rebel groups only show there's little if any idea and control of who does what , who did it ,
if no one did it why would they keep dumb , again . They know they will be investigation and repercussions ..

and my own bad feeling about it is that whoever held any clue and responsibility there , they're shifting people and weapons out of the area , as fast and sneaky as possible .

Trying to lie their way out of this .

Just a feeling .


:angel:

[Selene]

Q: What if? The “patsy” plane was deliberately chosen to be a Malaysian Air flight (again! OMG!)? And just imagine how the conspiracy theorists - and the rest of us - will go galloping madly off in that [false] direction...? Heh. Heh. Heh....

Red herring, anyone? Tasty with smelt...

To be clear here: What is possible/probable is that the miscreants have laid down a lot of false trails for us to suck up.

Cheers,

Selene

[onawah]

The Malaysian Plane Crash May Be A Major Blow To AIDS Research

I don't know if the experts on AIDS who were in that plane had a cure for AIDS, as the article suggests could be a possibility, but the speculation reminded me of what a whistleblower well known to Avalon was saying about the first Malaysian crash, which I won't post on this public thread, but there is a strange parallel, imho.
That first crash had 20 scientists on it who had techie information which would have changed life on Earth, according to the whistleblower.

http://thinkprogress.org/health/2014/07/18/3461625/aids-experts-malaysian-plane/


The Malaysian passenger plane that was shot down over Ukraine on Thursday was carrying more than 100 public health experts on their way to a prominent international meeting on AIDS, according to several news reports. Their deaths have prompted an outpouring of grief from the scientific community.
Those passengers were on their way to the 20th International AIDS Conference, which begins on Sunday in Melbourne, Australia. The group hosting the event expressed its “sincere sadness” at receiving the news in a statement released on the afternoon of Malaysia Airlines MH17′s fatal crash.
According to the Associated Press, the exact number of individuals who were killed on their way to the conference is unconfirmed. However, Australian officials have noted that “there is no doubt it’s a substantial number” that includes “medical scientists, doctors, people who’ve been to the forefront of dealing with AIDS across the world.”
“The cure for AIDS may have been on that plane, we just don’t know,” Trevor Stratton, an HIV/AIDS consultant who in Sydney for a pre-conference event, told the Australian Broadcasting Corporation.
The plane’s passengers included Joep Lange, the former president of the International AIDS Society and a tireless advocate for expanding access to affordable HIV treatment in impoverished countries. Lange had studied HIV/AIDS for more than three decades, and the Dutch researcher was considered to be a giant in the field. “He’s one of the icons of the whole area of research. His loss is massive,” Richard Boyd, a professor of immunology in Melbourne, told Reuters.
Another passenger was Glenn Thomas, a media relations coordinator at the World Health Organization (WHO) who had been with the group for more than a decade. Several other WHO staffers were also en route to the conference, and the organization is waiting for confirmation about whether they were also on board the MH17 flight.
As of now, the conference is scheduled to proceed as planned. But other attendees are telling reporters that it will take on an atmosphere of mourning. “There’s a huge feeling of sadness here, people are in floods of tears in the corridors,” Clive Aspin, an HIV researcher who attended the pre-conference event in Sydney, said in an interview with the Guardian. “These people were the best and the brightest, the ones who had dedicated their whole careers to fighting this terrible virus. It’s devastating.”
So far, emergency rescue workers have recovered more than 180 bodies from the site of the crash. The tragedy comes just one day after the United Nations published an optimistic report suggesting that we’re on track to end the global AIDS epidemic by 2030.

[Zionbrion]

The TV MMS is on in the background right now, very little of Gaza, but they are definitley putting all the blame on Putin for "supplying" the weapon. Im not a fan of any politician(except the president of Uruguay he seems cool) but appears to me Putin does not have an agenda to provoke war, in the way the west does. I don't want to be a Putin apologist as I know he has done a lot questionable things, but everytime I see his picture I get this feeling he is fighting for the better good. Who knows? Just my 2€

[Roisin]

Putin is not perfect, far from it.... but like Bill Ryan said, he's done a lot of good things for Russia. In fact, my views about him changed while watching the Olympics because I saw someone who literally moved mountains to make that event happen and I was even a little annoyed that most of the Western leaders in the world didn't show up for the opening ceremony.

He's worked hard to gain the respect and trust of leaders all over the world and he managed to even do that too. So, how can one dislike someone like this? Someone who marches to his own drummer yet, at the same time has been willing to be diplomatic and compromise on various important issues with world leaders just for the sake of peace and harmony so long as it didn't leave Russia with the short end of the stick.

Just saying that I understand his appeal and why so many out there really do have much respect for him.

I also feel sad that this incident happened because it's going to stop a good, competent leader from completing his mission which is to bring Russia back to its former glory. I really, really thought he was going to do that but now, that's not going to happen and I'm sad about that.

Is it his fault? Yes, because he didn't take those precautions necessary to make sure that he/Russia would not be framed in any way, shape or form by his enemies due to what's been going on in Ukraine.

At any rate, as the day wore on I came to the point where I am now that he/Russia was framed to make it seem like they were the ones who shot down that commercial airline. There are a few scenario's that would allow something like that to happen but I don't think that someone like Putin would intentionally allow anything like that to happen -- and in fact, it goes against everything that he stands for. He would never jeopardize Russia's standing in the world political theater by doing something like that. It goes against everything he stands for... right down to the core of his very being.

Russia is not the guilty party in this incident...

[Roisin]

I still find it hard to believe commercial airliners would be flying any where near this part of the world and what we are looking at on the ground is MH 370.

Stinks of a Sandy Hook type News Story to me.

That's interesting! Thanks for mentioning that!

[Pris]

Yes... are we seeing MH370 here? Was it substituted in -- to 'replace' flight MH17... a way to destroy the evidence and kill all the people on board?!

Was this some kind of a setup to appear like a missile hit?!

Me too I'm having sort of 'deja vu' but don't think this is correct version . The passengers were different people ..

How has this been confirmed -- and by whom? How do we 'trust' anything we are told?


We've had long thread here on the MA370 incident that's not been recovered till now, list of passengers together with their photos was published in open and their relatives are still mourning if not searching for them .

You'll see that these people too have relatives , they passed through airport security checkpoint at Schiphol , IDs are recovered from the crash side together with remains of bodies .

It's all very sad . But I think that 'common reasoning' prevails here, I can't speak for all but as far as I'm concerned, truth is often stranger than a fiction - that does not mean that every 'conspiracy' is automatically more plausible truth .
We 're not competing in 'creating conspiracies' . Though open minded thinking is always welcome ..


Hope I've not offended you anyhow .

:angel:

No offense taken. We're all here to share our thoughts. :)

It seems that now there is 'evidence' suggesting that many of the victims may have been dead long before the crash...

Again, who were these people?

A convenient pile of undamaged passports...

And, what about the two fighter jets that seemed to escort MH17 right before it disappeared from radar?

I still hold to my original feeling that the crashed plane may indeed be flight MH370 substituting in for MH17.

Whatever the truth, it appears that this incident is being used to frame Russia.

One thing is for certain, Agape: I do not have 'common reasoning'. ;)

[Zionbrion]

Putin is not perfect, far from it.... but like Bill Ryan said, he's done a lot of good things for Russia. In fact, my views about him changed while watching the Olympics because I saw someone who literally moved mountains to make that event happen and I was even a little annoyed that most of the Western leaders in the world didn't show up for the opening ceremony.

He's worked hard to gain the respect and trust of leaders all over the world and he managed to even do that too. So, how can one dislike someone like this? Someone who marches to his own drummer yet, at the same time has been willing to be diplomatic and compromise on various important issues with world leaders just for the sake of peace and harmony so long as it didn't leave Russia with the short end of the stick.

Just saying that I understand his appeal and why so many out there really do have much respect for him.

I also feel sad that this incident happened because it's going to stop a good, competent leader from completing his mission which is to bring Russia back to its former glory. I really, really thought he was going to do that but now, that's not going to happen and I'm sad about that.

Is it his fault? Yes, because he didn't take those precautions necessary to make sure that he/Russia would not be framed in any way, shape or form by his enemies due to what's been going on in Ukraine.

At any rate, as the day wore on I came to the point where I am now that he/Russia was framed to make it seem like they were the ones who shot down that commercial airline. There are a few scenario's that would allow something like that to happen but I don't think that someone like Putin would intentionally allow anything like that to happen -- and in fact, it goes against everything that he stands for. He would never jeopardize Russia's standing in the world political theater by doing something like that. It goes against everything he stands for... right down to the core of his very being.

Russia is not the guilty party in this incident...

Well said, yes its all very fishy. Its interesting to see you flexible in your views of the matter as more puzzle pieces come together. The MMS is way to trigger finger happy to point the finger right at Putin..and they keep using his name all day, rsther then saying Russia.

[jackovesk]

"Thus we cannot rule out technical assistance from Russian personnel in operating the systems."

US forces IMO..... doing what we do best, spreading hate and discontent to the whole world! this is the job of our Special Forces ("force multiplier".... aka future terrorist training specialists)

Agreed TargeT,

Don't forget the secret-sections of the Australian & British SAS & Mossad Special Forces who are ((ALL)) complicit in these ((False-Flag - Terrorism)) incidents we see all over the world and might I add with the (FULL) Cooperation & Support of the UN Security Council & NATO alliance and their respective Govts...:yes4:

[KiwiElf]

Remember the shooting down of Korean Airlines Flight 007? Full of pre-dead bodies? They blamed Russia for that too. Even learned Koreans believe it was a US spy mission. When it comes to the Cabal, the only thing some people don't learn from history, is; they don't learn from history! ;)

[jackovesk]

"WATCH-OUT" for this Man..!!!

Arseniy Yatsenyuk economist and lawyer who is the interim Prime Minister of Ukraine..!

The 'Puppet' Speaks...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xy1wrA40Uuc
PS - IMHO this man epitomizes 'Cowardess' and has a "Massive Yellow-Streak' running throughout his Soul...:wizard:

Complicit to say the least..!!!

http://media.tinngan.vn:6060/archive/images/2014/03/13/154946_uk1.jpg

http://cms.kienthuc.net.vn/uploaded/lenam/2014_04_29/nhanquyen_kienthuc_4703_tzpb.jpg

http://whitewraithe.files.wordpress.com/2014/03/62a44-mccain_in_ukraine.jpg?w=320&h=217

https://www.euroskop.cz/gallery2/76/22871-jacenuk_rompuy.JPG

http://img.lrytas.lt/show_foto/?f=4&id=1087653&s=3

PSS - Watch out for that Bus Arseniy...:scared:

http://fc03.deviantart.net/fs71/f/2011/295/4/a/throw_under_bus_by_mirz123-d4dlhl0.gif

[jackovesk]

:attention:

Just 'HOW' does the US led NATO Alliance, the UN Security Council, Govts & MSM ((CONTROL)) their LIES & DECEIT..?

The 'FIX' IS IN..!!!

Lets start by looking at the stories coming from the Australian MSM...

The 'Headlines'

1. What is Russia trying to hide?

July 19, 2014

FOOTAGE has emerged that reportedly shows the BUK rocket launcher that blasted Flight MH17 out of the sky — killing 298 people — two hours after the disaster.


The grainy footage, allegedly filmed by a Ukrainian intelligence agent, purportedly shows the rocket launcher being driven towards the Russian border after the attack, which killed 28 Australians on board MH17.

http://resources3.news.com.au/images/2014/07/19/1226994/396803-6333db2a-0ed3-11e4-9633-5d2eb5bc90d6.jpg
Chilling video ... the Ukrainian defence ministry says this is the rocket launcher that took down MH17. Source: Supplied

The video has not been independently verified. Ukrainian officials have said they believe Russian separatists near the town of Torez shot the airliner down with the Soviet-era BUK mobile anti-aircraft missile system.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7zWblcwzrvI
PS - Who takes a Video of a truck from a confined area as if they 'KNEW' it was going to be there (approx. 2hrs Note: Could have been taken at any time)...:faint:

.........................................

2. MH17 fallout: Russian reporter Sara Firth quits over Ukraine ‘lies’


A LONDON-based reporter for Russia’s state-owned English-language channel RT has quit in protest at its coverage of the Malaysia Airlines crash in Ukraine.

Sara Firth is the second person since March to publicly resign from RT, formerly known as Russia Today, over its coverage of the Ukraine crisis.

http://resources3.news.com.au/images/2014/07/19/1226994/371987-08e00814-0ed4-11e4-9633-5d2eb5bc90d6.jpg
Sara Firth. Picture: Twitter Source: Twitter

PS - Another little 'Snipit' of convenience...:yes4:

..........................................

3. THE Russian government has allegedly been busted editing a 'Wikipedia entry' on the Malaysia Airlines flight MH17 disaster to blame Ukraine.

A Twitter bot which monitors edits made on the site by Russian government IP addresses picked up the changes which were made on a page listing civil aviation accidents, the UK’s Telegraph reported.

http://www.news.com.au/travel/travel-updates/malaysia-airlines-plane-mh17-shot-down-on-ukrainerussia-border/story-fnizu68q-1226992889461

PS - Quid Pro Quo...:faint:

............................................

4. Ukraine to Putin: ‘Damn you for Centuries’


THE Ukrainian Government has condemned Russian leader Vladamir Putin by releasing a graphic image of an infant victim lying in a field, telling him he has the child’s blood on his hands.

The infant was among 80 children and three infants who died aboard MH17 when it was shot down by Pro-Russian rebels in eastern Ukraine.

Senior government advisor Anton Gerashchenko released the image with the message: “This baby’s death is on your conscience. Damn you for centuries!”

http://www.news.com.au/world/russian-president-vladimir-putins-response-to-mh17-crash-could-it-spark-war/story-fndir2ev-1226993795375

PS - Yep, the West has conveniently already (Made-Up) their story and come Hell or High water they will be sticking to it, as if their very lives depended on it...:faint:

SUMMARY:


MSM/CABAL - We've just gotta make these (LIES) stick...!!!

Like I said...

The 'FIX' is in...:wizard:

[sigma6]

Yet it could be another interesting puzzle to our jigsaw.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1fytpEF6-EQ&list=UUFjOi1ZpZVErr8EYxg8t1dQ

BUMP... If this is a legitimate video, then this is HUGE. WHAT IF... This whole thing is a false flag? What if this was remoted control crashed, and THEN blown up?... Daboo make an EXCELLENT point of view, if this was shot in the sky the parts and bodies would be strewn over miles.... HOLY SMOKES...

[sigma6]

Its also the anniversary that czar Nicholas and his family were executed.

Then that would add to the "Attempted assassination attempt" scenario... HOLY MOLY! And that is just too much of a coincidence.

A secret code passed by La Garde, A Plane blown up 20 minutes ahead of Putin's Putin is the biggest source of NWO anxiety in the world today...
He double crossed them... so they have a vendetta out for him...

Wow that guy is gutsy...

[sigma6]

http://lifenews.ru/watch-live LIVE NEWS FEED - VERY GRAPHIC!!!!!!! Bodies everywhere.

And a 'rituals' bag that did not burn?
Also there have been found passports:
https://twitter.com/lifenews_ru/status/489821390040993793/photo/1

Strange world!

Just like they found a passport that fluttered out of the 911 building explosion... pointing to that muslim guy that left his Koran at Shuckum's titty bar...

[jackovesk]

Yet it could be another interesting puzzle to our jigsaw.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1fytpEF6-EQ&list=UUFjOi1ZpZVErr8EYxg8t1dQ

BUMP... If this is a legitimate video, then this is HUGE. WHAT IF... This whole thing is a false flag? What if this was remoted control crashed, and THEN blown up?... Daboo make an EXCELLENT point of view, if this was shot in the sky the parts and bodies would be strewn over miles.... HOLY SMOKES...

Yep, the ((SMOKING GUN)) has been Fired...:smokin:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1fytpEF6-EQ
PS - But-But-But wait a second, didn't the MSM tell the (World) there were bodies strewn all over a 6-10km radius after raining down from the sky...:confused:

http://cdn.newsapi.com.au/image/v1/external?url=http://content6.video.news.com.au/R1eXYybzoechVS-IyNT6gqXFwh34ztH2/promo229987074&width=650&api_key=kq7wnrk4eun47vz9c5xuj3mc

Sky 'Rained People' After MH17 Shot Down

http://www.news.com.au/travel/travel-updates/malaysia-airlines-flight-mh17-black-box-sought-as-world-leaders-including-barack-obama-and-tony-abbott-condemn-prorussian-separatists/story-fnizu68q-1226994383389

[apokalypse]

When I saw this article a couple of days ago I thought
brace yourself.........It could be coincidence.....

VexU17zRPZo

Published on 15 Jul 2014


The emerging economies signed a long-anticipated document to create a $100
billion BRICS Development Bank. The institution will counter the influence of
Western lending firms as well as the dollar. DETAILS: http://on.rt.com/afyr6y

brother, this BRICS Development Bank pop up in my head today when i heard about the plane...not shock at all. just a warning or reminder everyone careful of WAG THE DOG thing with distraction from the truth/true event.

[Cidersomerset]

This was recorded just before the crash, but does give you
a feel of the situation in the Ukraine at present....



CrossTalk: Ukraine's Stalemate (pre-recorded)


gTjgX5e0ano

Published on 19 Jul 2014


The crisis in Ukraine is one of the most under-reported stories
in the world. The Western-backed regime in Kiev looks like a
'political football'. Who will be the winner in this tough game?
CrossTalking with Alexander Mercouris, Richard Weitz and Brian Becker.

[Limor Wolf]

(I am writing this with regards to the question - 'who is behind it?', with the many attempts on this thread to answer it, Americans, Russians, Israel, the Ukraninian, not so much with regards to examining the details of the schem)

A cautious observence

you give them two-three sides and they will always take it, as if the diagnosis of the participating figures/countries/players are not yet known..This is the ever winning formula and a carrousel where no one seems to be able to get off from, and why change a winning horse, right?

We argue a diversion and are getting caught up in it ourselves

Keep on at it guys..

The meat grinder still seems to be working well, and the dictating hands are very greatful, they might even find a way to express their gratitude

A clue: The answer can be summed with one word (with the variation of your choice)

Avalonians, why not fly higher, dear friends, and take the bird's eye view..

If we may need a reminder, we can go back to the beginning point and watch this


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yT1GavDtiwM

I know this video song hardly fits the occasion, but if Seymore (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L7SkrYF8lCU) has learned how to say 'No', then maybe so can we

Said with care,

Limor

[jackovesk]

Yet it could be another interesting puzzle to our jigsaw.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1fytpEF6-EQ&list=UUFjOi1ZpZVErr8EYxg8t1dQ

BUMP... If this is a legitimate video, then this is HUGE. WHAT IF... This whole thing is a false flag? What if this was remoted control crashed, and THEN blown up?... Daboo make an EXCELLENT point of view, if this was shot in the sky the parts and bodies would be strewn over miles.... HOLY SMOKES...

Yep, the ((SMOKING GUN)) has been Fired...:smokin:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1fytpEF6-EQ
PS - But-But-But wait a second, didn't the MSM tell the (World) there were bodies strewn all over a 6-10km radius after raining down from the sky..???

http://cdn.newsapi.com.au/image/v1/external?url=http://content6.video.news.com.au/R1eXYybzoechVS-IyNT6gqXFwh34ztH2/promo229987074&width=650&api_key=kq7wnrk4eun47vz9c5xuj3mc

Sky 'Rained People' After MH17 Shot Down

http://www.news.com.au/travel/travel-updates/malaysia-airlines-flight-mh17-black-box-sought-as-world-leaders-including-barack-obama-and-tony-abbott-condemn-prorussian-separatists/story-fnizu68q-1226994383389

***Update***

But WAIT there is even more now...

A "New-Video" has surfaced showing the MH17 crashing down from the Sky...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BUfaqm4SpUc
http://beforeitsnews.com/alternative/2014/07/alleged-footage-of-flight-mh17-crashing-to-the-ground-real-or-fake-2995366.html

PS - Now this is where you can all weigh in on the Debate...:secret:

Which (Video) is the Real-Footage of MH17 Exploding ..?

This One...?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1fytpEF6-EQ
Or, This One..?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BUfaqm4SpUc
PS - I'll give you a little :director: (HINT)

A simple check of the ((Weather)) that day will suffice...:)

[jackovesk]

They shall reign DEATH upon us
Financial, WAR, Famine & Disease

They shall reign DEATH upon us
In every Form conceivable

They shall reign DEATH upon us
Left, Right, here there and Everywhere

They shall reign DEATH upon us
To form their World Govt Rule

They shall reign DEATH upon us
Unless we STOP them in their Tracks

:neo:


The (BIG-PICTURE)

Doomsday Ultimate Reaper Virus Unleashed? 100 Scientists Added To Dead Scientist List After MH17 Is Shot Down

Friday, July 18, 2014

With it now being common knowledge that 100 leading international AIDS scientists were on board the doomed flight MH17, 100 new names have been added to a rapidly growing list of now dead scientists, chemists, astronomers and engineers as the MH17 mystery takes a new turn as shared in the 1st and 3rd videos below. In the 1st video, called “Malaysian Flight MH17 Bomb On Board To Kill Joep Lange”, our videographer shares why he feels that Lange, President of the International AIDS Society from 2002 to 2004, was targetted.



Coincidentally, or not, former President Bill Clinton also knew a number of the scientists who died aboard MH17 as shared in the 2nd video. Are these more names to be added to the body count that surrounds the Clinton family? What did these scientists know, or were about to learn at this ‘very important AIDS conference’, that we don’t know? We were recently contacted by Stephen Quayle who gave us permission to repost this quote directly from him.:




“PUT THIS IN CONTEXT OF V’S GENERAL ULTIMATE KILLER PLAGUE COMING REVELATION AND ITS SAFE TO ASSUME THAT AIDS VIRUS, GENETICALLY ALTERED, MAYBE INCORPORATED INTO “DOOMSDAY ULTIMATE REAPER VIRUS”! ADD THESE DEAD SCIENTISTS TO MY ON GOING “DEAD SCIENTIST LIST” AND A VERY CLEAR PICTURE EMERGES.”


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s1QYfET1YVk

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p2KG2gMT08k

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BrLmJ9a44BI
http://beforeitsnews.com/contributor/upload/5385/images/paz4.jpg

http://beforeitsnews.com/health/2014/07/doomsday-ultimate-reaper-virus-unleashed-100-scientists-added-to-dead-scientist-list-after-mh17-is-shot-down-2542998.html

PS - Sorry Folks, all these endless EVENTS/MAYHEM are starting to (Add Up)...:yes4:

No Fear-Mongering necessary...:nono:

[Hervé]

[...]

A simple check of the ((Weather)) that day will suffice...:)

... :


[...]

.... Also noted the strongest and putrid smell, marked by many locals - this odor in any weather for half an hour could not be formed, and the weather was overcast yesterday, not too hot."

[...]


https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-jDiAGI6v6KQ/AAAAAAAAAAI/AAAAAAAAAA4/CPWckgOb_3A/s48-c-k-no/photo.jpg (http://www.youtube.com/profile_redirector/103279504931164937503)lightman54000 (http://www.youtube.com/profile_redirector/103279504931164937503) 10 hours ago (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BUfaqm4SpUc&google_comment_id=z12yujmwvzi4ujjke22gsfzbazbqshfzw04)

Not the plane: No Sunshine for The good!!...Ce n'est pas le bon avion, sur le crash on peut voir le temps nuageux aux infos alors que là, le temps est magnifique, pas de nuages etc...
Merci à @Turner2123 qui l'a direct signalé sur la vidéo de Thor...
Terriens: Light& Peace... and, apologies for being so graphic, but...

... no BBQ stench reported either...

[Cidersomerset]

Spanish Air Controller @ Kiev Borispol Airport: Ukraine Military Shot Down Malaysian Boeing

new Saturday 19th July 2014 at 08:35 By david-icke

FLASH UPDATE: Industry Outlet Confirms Carlos (@spainbuca) as ATC at Borispol in Kiev

http://www.davidicke.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/get-attachment-714-587x391.jpg


‘There was an unexplained change of course of the Malaysian MH17 flight which took the aircraft
directly over the Eastern Ukraine warzone.

The Spanish air controller confirms a conflict between the Ministry of Defense and the Ministry of
the Interior intimating that the order concerning the downing of the aircraft came from the Ministry
of the Interior, which is dominated by Svoboda and Right Sector.

He also said that the MH17 flight was escorted by Ukrainian fighter jets minutes before it was
downed. It is worth noting that the presence of the Ukraine fighter jets reported by the Spanish
air traffic controller was confirmed by eyewitness reports in the Donetsk region:

“eyewitnesses in the Donetsk region saw Ukrainian warplanes near the passenger jet. They say
they heard sounds of powerful blasts and saw a Ukraine warplane shortly before the crash. (ITAR Tass)’

Read more: Spanish Air Controller @ Kiev Borispol Airport: Ukraine Military Shot Down Boeing



http://slavyangrad.wordpress.com/2014/07/18/spanish-air-controller-kiev-borispol-airport-ukraine-military-shot-down-boeing-mh17/


===============================================================

Was MH17 Sabotaged By An Israeli Security Team At Amsterdam Schiphol Airport?

http://www.davidicke.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/false-flag-warning.jpg

‘Once again, this time in the destruction of MH17, there is an Israeli-connected air crash
with political ramifications involving Israeli strategic interests, inside Israel exactly when
its military launches an invasion of Gaza and in troubled Ukraine, a supplier of military
electronics to the IDF.

Security at Schipol Airport is operated by ICTS, an Israeli-owned airport security company
based in The Netherlands founded by former officers of the Shin Beit intelligence agency.
Its subsidiaries are also involved in key security functions there, including ProCheck,
Ramasso and I-SEC.

The Israeli security company has a record of staging false flag operations, including the
September 11, 2001 attacks. ICaTS subsidiary Huntleigh provided passenger and baggage
inspection services at Boston Logan Airport, where two of the four jetliners used in the 911
attack originated.’

Read more …


http://www.rense.com/general96/MH17.html

======================================

WASHINGTON TIMES....


Pro-Russia rebel commander suggests passengers died days before Malaysian flight



http://www.davidicke.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/ukraine-plane-rebel-commanderjpeg-0af5a_s640x447.jpg


‘A top pro-Russia rebel commander in eastern Ukraine has given a bizarre version
of events surrounding the Malaysian jetliner crash — suggesting many of the
victims may have died days before the plane took off.The pro-rebel website
Russkaya Vesna on Friday quoted Igor Girkin as saying he was told by people at
the crash site that “a significant number of the bodies weren’t fresh,” adding that
he was told they were drained of blood and reeked of decomposition.’

Read more …

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2014/jul/18/pro-russia-rebel-commander-suggests-passengers-die/#ixzz37rsmFwgB

http://www.davidicke.com/headlines/

[Xanth]

The (BIG-PICTURE)

Doomsday Ultimate Reaper Virus Unleashed? 100 Scientists Added To Dead Scientist List After MH17 Is Shot Down

Friday, July 18, 2014

With it now being common knowledge that 100 leading international AIDS scientists were on board the doomed flight MH17, 100 new names have been added to a rapidly growing list of now dead scientists, chemists, astronomers and engineers as the MH17 mystery takes a new turn as shared in the 1st and 3rd videos below. In the 1st video, called “Malaysian Flight MH17 Bomb On Board To Kill Joep Lange”, our videographer shares why he feels that Lange, President of the International AIDS Society from 2002 to 2004, was targetted.

PS - Sorry Folks, all these endless EVENTS/MAYHEM are starting to (Add Up)...:yes4:

No Fear-Mongering necessary...:nono:

Looks like it was seven (7) AIDS researchers not 100...

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jul/18/aids-researchers-malaysia-airlines-mh17-crash-australia-victims

[SilentFeathers]

I also feel sad that this incident happened because it's going to stop a good, competent leader from completing his mission which is to bring Russia back to its former glory. I really, really thought he was going to do that but now, that's not going to happen and I'm sad about that.

Is it his fault? Yes, because he didn't take those precautions necessary to make sure that he/Russia would not be framed in any way, shape or form by his enemies due to what's been going on in Ukraine.


Personally, I wouldn't under-estimate Putin, I don't think this will slow him down much. Putin made a statement stating this shoot down wouldn't of happened if Ukraine wouldn't of been interfered with in the first place.

His fault? It's no more his fault than it is Obama's fault for Israel sweeping through Gaza with US armor and weapons etc. Who armed ISIS?

It's a sick game regardless, yet we still don't know what exactly happened to cause the MH17 to crash, nor who actually did it. It was likely the Russian Separatists, but with all the research I've done thus far, it seems they didn't even know what they were shooting at and didn't realize it was a passenger jet until they came upon the wreckage.

Perhaps Ukraine actually shot it down?

Putin may even become more unpredictable now if it was actually an assassination attempt against him. This has yet to play itself out, they can't just make this go away like they did MH370.

Just more info:


The Malaysia Airlines 777 involved in today's accident in Ukraine is tail no. 9M-MRD and serial number 28411, a 777-2H6ER that was the 84th 777 off the production line. Powered by Rolls-Royce Trent 892B-17 engines, it first flew on July 17, 1997, exactly 17 years before its accident. It was delivered to Malaysian Airlines on July 30, 1997.

This is the fifth hull loss for the 777 and the second this year. Oddly, three out of the five 777 hull losses have taken place in July. EgyptAir lost a 777-200ER in July 2011 in Cairo due to a cockpit fire and an Asiana Airlines 777-200ER crashed on landing in San Francisco in July 2013. British Airways suffered a 777-200ER loss on landing at Heathrow in January 2008 and Malaysia Airlines lost a 777-200ER somewhere in the southern Indian Ocean in March 2014.
http://aviationweek.com/blog/airframe-details-malaysia-airlines-mh17


Russian government edits Wikipedia on flight MH17
A political battle has broken out on Wikipedia over an entry relating to the crash of Malaysian Airlines flight MH17, with the Russian government reportedly removing sections which accuse it of providing "terrorists" with missiles that were used to down the civilian airliner
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/news/10977082/Russian-government-edits-Wikipedia-on-flight-MH17.html


FINAL – Spanish Air Controller @ Kiev Borispol Airport: Ukraine Military Shot Down Boeing #MH17

Eyewitness Accounts July 18, 2014 Comments: 48
FLASH UPDATE: Industry Outlet Confirms Carlos (@spainbuca) as ATC at Borispol in Kiev

(See the Text of Carlos / @spainbuca Tweets Below the Article)

Original: EturboNews (ETN Global Travel Industry News) – July 17, 2014

ETN received information from an air traffic controller in Kiev on Malaysia Airlines flight MH17.

This Kiev air traffic controller is a citizen of Spain and was working in the Ukraine. He was taken off duty as a civil air-traffic controller along with other foreigners immediately after a Malaysia Airlines passenger aircraft was shot down over the Eastern Ukraine killing 295 passengers and crew on board.

The air traffic controller suggested in a private evaluation and basing it on military sources in Kiev, that the Ukrainian military was behind this shoot down. Radar records were immediately confiscated after it became clear a passenger jet was shot down.

Military air traffic controllers in internal communication acknowledged the military was involved, and some military chatter said they did not know where the order to shoot down the plane originated from.

Obviously it happened after a series of errors, since the very same plane was escorted by two Ukrainian fighter jets until 3 minutes before it disappeared from radar.

Radar screen shots also show an unexplained change of course of the Malaysian Boeing. The change of course took the aircraft directly over the Eastern Ukraine conflict region.

Some tweets received suggest this may have been a secret military uprising against the current Ukrainian president under the direction of formerly-jailed Prime Minister Timoshenko.

According to other rumors, the black box for this crashed Malaysian Airlines flight was taken by Donetsk separatists. A spokesperson for the rebel group said this black box would be sent to the Interstate Aviation Committee headquartered in Moscow.

The First Deputy Prime Minister of the self-proclaimed People’s Republic of Donetsk, Andrew Purgin, stated that the flight recorders of the crashed aircraft will be transferred to Moscow for examination.

Sources say the Rebel group leadership hopes this would confirm the Ukrainian military actually shot down this aircraft. This was reported by the news agency Interfax-Ukraine.

ETN statement: The information in this article is independently confirmed and based on the statement of one airline controller and other tweets received.
http://slavyangrad.wordpress.com/2014/07/18/spanish-air-controller-kiev-borispol-airport-ukraine-military-shot-down-boeing-mh17/

[Cidersomerset]

This is interesting and if they let it happen could lead
to other 'Accident' or 'terrorist' acts being reopened.
I expect it will be hushed up or ridiculed by the
authorities, but shows more people are questioning
these government cover ups.....



Calls For New Investigation Of TWA Flight 800 Crash On July 17, 1996

Saturday 19th July 2014 at 04:42 By david-icke



_tDBowMVtHY




BUqbteKLkzg

Ex-CIA intern Anderson Cooper makes on air blooper. Says TWA800 was shot
down then has to make hasty retraction to keep the official lie alive.



http://www.davidicke.com/headlines/


====================================================

One of the best ways to keep 'whistle blowers' quite is with threats to
themselves and their families and we have many examples of suspicious
deaths at the hands of 'political assassins' from one intelligence group
or another, this has always happened.

With the 'Baby Boomers' now reaching retirement age and many without
the worries they had during their careers , there maybe more experts
in all different field ready do disclose what they know or revalue official
stories......

There is a BBC TV show about ex detectives , looking at 'cold cases',
so it is something already in the public mind...



Obviously it is easy on TV or Holly Wood , but worth looking at.....

New Tricks Season 1 Episode 0 Pilot

c3MfGVRPLHk

[Hervé]

FINAL – Part II: Evidence Continues to Emerge #MH17 Is a False Flag Operation (http://slavyangrad.wordpress.com/2014/07/18/breaking-part-ii-evidence-continues-to-emerge-mh17-is-a-false-flag-operation/)

Examining the Evidence (http://slavyangrad.wordpress.com/category/examining-the-evidence/) July 18, 2014

Key Information in Reverse Chronological Order:

#15 – Dissecting the Fake Intercept Disseminated by SBU (Ukrainian Security Service)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V5E8kDo2n6g

Note: Half of the Post Translated; The Remaining Half is Speculative

Complete Original of the Post (in Russian) Can Be Found at Eugene-DF LiveJournal (http://eugene-df.livejournal.com/791000.html)

In the disseminated intercept, the place from which the missile was allegedly launched is clearly indicated:

the checkpoint at the settlement of Chernukhino.

Pay close attention at the Alleged Map of the MH17 Catastrophe (http://maps.yandex.ru/?text=%D0%A3%D0%BA%D1%80%D0%B0%D0%B8%D0%BD%D0%B0%2C%20%D0%9B%D1%83%D0%B3%D0%B0%D0%BD%D1%81%D0%BA%D0% B0%D1%8F%20%D0%BE%D0%B1%D0%BB%D0%B0%D1%81%D1%82%D1%8C%2C%20%D0%9F%D0%B5%D1%80%D0%B5%D0%B2%D0%B0%D0%B B%D1%8C%D1%81%D0%BA%D0%B8%D0%B9%20%D1%80%D0%B0%D0%B9%D0%BE%D0%BD%2C%20%D0%BF%D0%BE%D1%81%D0%B5%D0%BB %D0%BE%D0%BA%20%D0%A7%D0%B5%D1%80%D0%BD%D1%83%D1%85%D0%B8%D0%BD%D0%BE&sll=38.515537%2C48.32638&sspn=1.084900%2C0.371810&ll=38.856892%2C48.174615&spn=0.476532%2C0.579600&z=10&l=map&rl=38.49777005%2C48.35446966%7E0.21972656%2C-0.32459094).

As you can see, the distance from the point of launch to the point of the fall is 37 kilometres. At the same time, the elevation of the plane was 10-11 kilometres. For the Russian BUK M2 this distance is, in fact, achievable (although with a very important caveat discussed below).

However, Ukraine does not, and cannot, have modern digital high-tech Anti-Aircraft systems in its arsenal. What it does have, at best, is the older version BUK M1. The system itself is not too bad, and could even fit the stated distance. Except for the caveat that was mentioned.

The thing is that most short to medium range Anti-Aircraft systems work extremely poorly in a “pursuit” mode. There are a number of reasons for this, and I do not intend to belabor the point, but you can take it as an axiom that when the launch is made in “pursuit” of the target, the maximum distance of the launch that successfully hits the target is at least half of the advertised maximum distance (in reality, it even worse, but let’s leave aside the sad part). Accordingly, the real distance of a “pursuit” launch for BUK M1 is 16 kilometres. What’s more, the last 3 kilometres are purely “God willing” and “without guarantees.”

And, so, we have the background. Let’s see how the picture unfolds:

The launch is alleged to have been made from Chernukhino. The maximum distance of the launch is 16 kilometres. The aircraft fell between Snezhnoye and Torez. That’s 37 kilometres, which is 20 kilometres more than the maximum possible point at which the plain could have been hit. You know, even a plane with turned-off engines can’t glide like that. But the trouble is that the aircraft was not whole.

According to the pattern of the spread of fuselage fragments and bodies, the plane was ruptured practically with the first shot. Here it must be mentioned that the high-explosive/fragmentation warhead of the rocket has a mass of approximately 50 kilograms (by the way, Ukrainians have an outdated modification, which is only 40 kilograms).

Overall, that’s not too little; however, it must be understood that it detonates not when it sticks into an airplane, but when it is still at a certain, and fairly significant distance. Moreover, the main strike factor is not the blast wave, but far more significantly – the stream of fragments. These fragments are previously prepared rods (and in the earlier versions – little cubes, if I recall correctly). And yes, for a jet fighter, that, in itself, is more than sufficient.

However, here we are dealing with a huge airliner. Yes, one rocket will rip the casing, cause depressurization, and will kill a lot of passengers. But it will not break up the airliner into pieces. Given certain conditions, the pilots may even be able to land it. And, in fact, there have been precedents (to be provided in future posts). For example – the very same An-28, which is alleged to have been the first victim of a BUK system; even though it was done for, but the crew was able to successfully catapult out. Which, in some way, symbolizes. An An-28, by the way, is far smaller than a Boeing.

Nevertheless, this has relation to the next part of our analysis. For now, let’s accept as a fact the break-up of the aircraft in the air, at a significant height (which is, in essence, what was observed. Allow me to remind you: “fragments spread over a radius of 15 kilometres.” The key here is that this means the following: the aircraft (or, more precisely, the core of the aircraft) fell literally at the point where the rocket impacted it. Clarifying: as soon as the aircraft turned into a host of fragments of different mass, the separation of these fragments began due to air resistance and the difference in inertia. The densest fragment flew a further 3-6 kilometres, falling more and more steeply. The lightest – spread out and, due to gliding and air currents, fell somewhere within a 10 kilometre radius. The medium ones (primarily pieces of casing with high sail-effect and the victims’ bodies) – fell almost vertically.

In other words, the rocket caught up to the plane no closer than 25 kilometres away from Chernukhino. Which is absolutely impossible for a BUK system.

By the way, we can’t overlook the fact that, at maximum distances, BUK can be used only provided there is support from an external radar installation for location and guiding purposes. In other words, even if a rockets flies far, BUK’s mobile radar does not cover its entire distance.

Accordingly, if SBU’s video above is not fake, then, to our surprise, we discover that it was literally impossible for the aircraft to be shot down by the rebel’s BUK. By the way, what exactly this BUK was doing in Chernukhino with the Cossacks is pretty much inexplicable. It is 60 kilometres whether you go to Donetsk or to Lugansk from there, and this BUK would be unable to protect the skies over either of the key cities. Nor are there any hostilities in the area. It’s also strange for the Militia to expect enemy planes there – it’s not like the pilots are their own enemies to make such detours over the enemy’s territory, is it? Well, all right. As I already stated, let’s accept, for the moment, that the intercept is not fake.

And that is what is so strange here: SBU literally offers evidence that proves that that the Militia had no part in the shooting down of the Boeing! The fact that they blame themselves in the recording is quite understandable. Unlike the fascists, they have a conscience, which takes its toll until you are sure it was not you who did it.

Ok. But somebody did, in fact, shoot down the plane?

Of course it was shot down. And here we have another question: what if this recording is a falsification through and through? Then it had to have been prepared somehow? And then disseminated?

That’s when smoke starts to clear, and mirrors – to break.

That’s the problem with tricks.


#14 – An Industry Outlet Confirms Carlos (@spainbuca) as ATC at Borispol Airport in Kiev
Original: EturboNews (http://www.eturbonews.com/48079/ukraine-air-traffic-controller-suggests-kiev-military-shot-down-) (ETN Global Travel Industry News) – July 17, 2014
ETN received information from an air traffic controller in Kiev on Malaysia Airlines flight MH17.

This Kiev air traffic controller is a citizen of Spain and was working in the Ukraine. He was taken off duty as a civil air-traffic controller along with other foreigners immediately after a Malaysia Airlines passenger aircraft was shot down over the Eastern Ukraine killing 295 passengers and crew on board.

The air traffic controller suggested in a private evaluation and basing it on military sources in Kiev, that the Ukrainian military was behind this shoot down. Radar records were immediately confiscated after it became clear a passenger jet was shot down.

Military air traffic controllers in internal communication acknowledged the military was involved, and some military chatter said they did not know where the order to shoot down the plane originated from.

Obviously it happened after a series of errors, since the very same plane was escorted by two Ukrainian fighter jets until 3 minutes before it disappeared from radar.

Radar screen shots also show an unexplained change of course of the Malaysian Boeing. The change of course took the aircraft directly over the Eastern Ukraine conflict region.

Some tweets received suggest this may have been a secret military uprising against the current Ukrainian president under the direction of formerly-jailed Prime Minister Timoshenko.

According to other rumors, the black box for this crashed Malaysian Airlines flight was taken by Donetsk separatists. A spokesperson for the rebel group said this black box would be sent to the Interstate Aviation Committee headquartered in Moscow.

The First Deputy Prime Minister of the self-proclaimed People’s Republic of Donetsk, Andrew Purgin, stated that the flight recorders of the crashed aircraft will be transferred to Moscow for examination.

Sources say the Rebel group leadership hopes this would confirm the Ukrainian military actually shot down this aircraft. This was reported by the news agency Interfax-Ukraine.

ETN statement: The information in this article is independently confirmed and based on the statement of one airline controller and other tweets received.

#13 – A Brief Well-Made Presentation Regarding Ukraine’s Manufactured Evidence
Video: Paul J. Watson – “Evidence to Frame Russia For MH17 Shoot Down Fabricated?”

#12 – Analysis from an Aerodynamics/Physics Standpoint – Ukrainian Army Responsible
RESUME OF ANALYSIS: What all this means is that if a BUK rocket was launched from the territory controlled by the Militia, the Boeing would have fallen much further to the south-east – i.e. will into the Russian territory. Otherwise, there would have been not time to detect the aircraft, perform electronic capture and launch the rocket. If this was a BUK, and not a jet fighter, then it is most likely that the launch was made from the territory controlled by the Ukrainian army, and the rocket was sent “chasing after” the airplane.

Original: 4yma3iy LiveJournal (http://4yma3iy.livejournal.com/138485.html)
I am not an aerodynamics specialist. I am a radioelectronics expert. Nevertheless, I specialize in aviation. If there are aerodynamics specialists here, please critique away.

Initial Data: the plane’s elevation is 10,000 metres, speed is 900 km/h (or 250 m/s).
Judging from the photos from the site of the crash, where all the pieces lie together in one place, it appears that the plane fell as a whole (i.e. some fragments may have broken off, but the fuselage remained intact). So, the aircraft well “as one piece” – i.e. it did not break apart in the air.

Accordingly, it must be considered as one body, the speed of which has a very large dependence on air resistance, particularly given the design features and its intended use.

The time of a body’s free fall:

T = sqrt(2h/g)

Thus, from a height of 10,000 metres, a body will fall:

T = sqrt(2*10000/9.8) = 45 second – HOWEVER! – this applies only in vacuum.

At the same time, the downward velocity when falling from this height is:

V = sqrt(2gh)

This speed will equal 442 m/s – HOWEVER! – this, once again, applies only in vacuum.

In real-life conditions a fall happens with a certain maximum speed, at which the force of air resistance becomes equal to the force of gravity. For a person’s body, for instance, this speed is equal to 40 m/s. For a bullet, this speed is approximately 50 m/s (depending on form and mass). Given the plane’s mass and its enormous size, let’s take this speed to be 40 m/s.

Accordingly, the plane would have been falling approximately 250 second – let’s round it off to 4 minutes, which is quite close to what happened.

Let’s accept that the reduction of horizontal speed also occurs pursuant to a linear equation with certain acceleration.

The vector of the force of front air resistance is directed against the speed of movement, and its magnitude is proportional to characteristic area S, density of the environment ρ, and speed V squared:

V=C((P*V^2)/2)*S

For the aerodynamically well-designed body of an aircraft, Cx < 0.3

Let’s calculate the force of air resistance at the speed of 250 m/s

0.3*1.26*250*250/2*50=590кН

https://slavyangrad.files.wordpress.com/2014/07/plane.png?w=600 (https://slavyangrad.files.wordpress.com/2014/07/plane.png)


The mass of Boeing 777 = 300 ton (in equipped state)

It means that horizontal deceleration due to air resistance would be 590/300 = 2 m/s^2 – just as I suspected (however, this is at the maximum speed).

Now, let’s take our favourite highschool equation:

X=(V1^2-V0^2)/2a

Given the nonlinear nature of deceleration, divide it in half – and we get 31 kilometres.

Let’s consider the strike distance of the rocket. Maximum strike distance of AGM-86 ALSM rocket:


At the height of 30 m – 20 km
At the height of 6,000 m – 26 km
The chance of a successful strike: 0.6 – 0.8

This distance should not be mistaken for the distance of detection.

Map: Yellow Pin to the West = Estimated Rocket Launch Location; Yellow Pin To the East = Crash Site


http://slavyangrad.files.wordpress.com/2014/07/mh17.jpg?w=600&h=525 (https://slavyangrad.files.wordpress.com/2014/07/mh17.jpg)


What all this means is that if a BUK rocket was launched from the territory controlled by the Militia, the Boeing would have fallen much further to the south-east – i.e. will into the Russian territory. Otherwise, there would have been not time to detect the aircraft, perform electronic capture and launch the rocket.

If this was a BUK, and not a jet fighter, then it is most likely that the launch was made from the territory controlled by the Ukrainian army, and the rocket was sent “chasing after” the airplane.

#11 – Changing MH17 Route From July 14, 2014 to July 17, 2014

https://slavyangrad.files.wordpress.com/2014/07/ingograph.gif?w=600 (https://slavyangrad.files.wordpress.com/2014/07/ingograph.gif)



Screenshots of Flight Paths of MH17 for July 14-17, 2014
https://slavyangrad.files.wordpress.com/2014/07/14th-july-route.jpg?w=285&h=133https://slavyangrad.files.wordpress.com/2014/07/15th-july-route.jpg?w=285&h=136 (https://slavyangrad.files.wordpress.com/2014/07/14th-july-route.jpg) http://slavyangrad.files.wordpress.com/2014/07/16th-july-route.jpg?w=285&h=135 (https://slavyangrad.files.wordpress.com/2014/07/16th-july-route.jpg)http://slavyangrad.files.wordpress.com/2014/07/17th-july-route.jpg?w=285&h=123 (https://slavyangrad.files.wordpress.com/2014/07/17th-july-route.jpg)

#10 – Eyewitness Recounts a Fighter Jet and 3 Explosions When MH17 Was Shot Down
Audio Recording Link: Cassad Net (http://cassad.net/category/war/211-podrobnosti-gibeli-malaziyskogo-boinga.html)

Transcript of the Eyewitness Phone CallI
have a single sheet of paper that fell from the plane, with fresh blood – you can see it. Baggage also fell, further, in the area of the Petropavlovka settlement – there are fragments there. There is a group in VKontakte that already posted photos with pieces from the Boeing. Also, beyond Rassypnoye, near Terrikon, there are corpses. There were people there, and they saw it all.

I saw, personally, that there were 3 explosions. The first, the second and the third. So, after the first explosions I went up on the roof and saw that a plane was falling – it was already almost at the ground. There was an explosion, a black cloud, and two parachutists were descending – one was descending on his parachute on the wing. The second was flying down very fast – like a stone. And that is what I saw.

However, at that very same moment, a jet fighter was departing in the direction of Debaltsevo. It was over Rassypnoye and was flying toward Debaltsevo. How I understood it.

#9 – 11:53-12:40 – July 18, 2014 – Information Regarding the Boeing from Igor Strelkov
- regarding Boeing 777, Flight MH17:

Igor Strelkov: According to the information received from the people who collected the corpses, a large number of the corpses are “not fresh” – these are people who died a few days ago. I cannot vouch for complete accuracy of this information – of course, we will have to wait for conclusions from forensic specialists.

- “Somebody of course must have been piloting this plane, which, to boot, would be impossible to leave. The theory that the plane was full of dead people is, of course, breathtaking; however, it does not seem to make sense.”

Igor Strelkov: First of all, not all the people in the plane were dead prior to the fall.

Second, a large quantity of medication, including blood serum and so forth, was found in the airplane, which is not characteristic of a regular airliner. It looks like there was some kind of special medical cargo on board.

Third, I do not insist on anything (for now). It’s just that only moments ago I spoke with two individuals who personally gathered the corpses after the crash (both of them are from Shakhtersk and arrived at the scene less than half an hour after the catastrophe). I am writing exactly what they told me. They emphasized that a large number of the corpses were “completely bloodless” – it’s as if their blood clotted long before the catastrophe. They also remarked that there was an overwhelming putrid corpse stench, which was also noted by many locals – a smell like that could not have formed in half an hour in any weather, let alone in the cloudy, temperate weather we had yesterday.

Fourth, while I am usually very suspicious of any “conspiracy theories” myself, but the 18 of our fighters that were poisoned with chemical weapons at their positions in Semyonovka, the executions of the militiamen’s family members and all other “small joys of Ukie patriots” have convinced me that the Ukrainian government is capable of any villainy.

The pilots were, of course, perfectly alive – the entire cabin (and the front part is well preserved) was literally bathed in their blood.

#8 – Ukrainian Military Reports to Poroshenko That Rebels Have Not Captured any BUKs
According to Vitaliy Yarema, in an interview to Ukrainskaya Pravda (http://www.pravda.com.ua/rus/news/2014/07/18/7032278/), military officials reported to President Poroshenko immediately after the shooting down of Malaysian Airlines Boeing 777, Flight MH17, that the rebels have not captured any BUK systems from the Ukrainian Armed Forces. This is further confirmed in a statement by the Ukrainian Ministry of Defence (http://www.mil.gov.ua/news/2014/06/30/teroristi-ne-zahoplyuvali-bojovu-tehniku-chastin-protipovitryanoi-oboroni-zbrojnih-sil-ukraini-v-doneczku/), published on June 30, 2014.

Further Information: “Militias do not have Ukrainian Buk missile system – Ukraine general prosecutor (http://en.itar-tass.com/world/741271)“

KIEV, July 18. /ITAR-TASS/. Militias in the self-proclaimed Donetsk and Luhansk people’s republics do not have Ukrainian air defense missile systems Buk and S-300 at their disposal, Ukrainian Prosecutor-General Vitaly Yarema told Ukrainian Pravda newspaper on Friday.

“After the passenger airliner was downed, the military reported to the president that terrorists do not have our air defense missile systems Buk and S-300,” the general prosecutor said. “These weapons were not seized,” he added.

Ukrainian Interior Minister Anton Gerashchenko said on July 17 that the Malaysia Airlines Boeing 777 airliner had been downed by an air defense missile system Buk.

The Malaysia Airlines Boeing 777 airliner on the way from the Dutch city of Amsterdam to the Malaysian capital of Kuala Lumpur crashed in Ukraine on Thursday. All 298 people abroad the airliner died in the crash.

#7 – Eyewitness States Two Planes Following MH17, One Of the Craft Shot Down Boeing
Video: Father of Eyewitness Tells of the Crash of Boeing MH17 Over Ukraine
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rPcbFJSGk7E

Transcript of the Video
Narrator: Who shot it down? Today it was shot down, on [July] 17th.

Narrator: Continuing. The village of Grabovo. How was it? What did you son tell you?

Father of Eyewitness: Well, they were sitting there, on a hill. And, from behind the clouds … two airplanes were flying … one of the came out from behind the clouds.

Narrator: Military planes emerged?

Father of Eyewitness: Well, he does not understand. Then, with one shot, they shot down the second. And that’s it. The second plane, he says – with one shot. There was one shot and that’s it.

Narrator: And the one that was shot down was the civilian one? …

Father of Eyewitness: And two … one fell down, he says, and the second too … I did not bring my phone here, so I can’t call him.

[in the background] Ah, he saw a jet fighter … Of course …

Narrator: The village of Grabovo, in the Shakhtersk district. One the approaches to Grabovo, it fell. Keep looking for remains. Everything is burning. Aluminum has melted. All the casing.

#6 – Analysis from Anatolii Sharii
Video: The Tragedy of Boeing 777
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TzcKcyHG_CY

Transcript of the Video
If we try to forget the shock that I, along with my beloved Netherlands, are currently experiencing over this tragedy, and try to make sense of this situation unemotionally, as much as it can be possible, then the very first steps of the analysis of the fate of this flight inspire very terrifying, saddening thoughts.

A Ukrainian journalist, Olga Bondarenko, identified this information and the two of us, as we are together at the moment, came to certain conclusions. The following is provided to you without commentary.

[the following is screen text]
The flight path for July 15, 2014
The flight path for July 16, 2014
How it flew on July 17, 2014

Here is where it was shot down
Let us overlay the flight path onto the map of Ukraine
This is the regular flight path
The flight path on July 17, 2014
The deviation from the regular flight path

An unidentified flying object enters the area where they should be no aircraft

Who shot down the Boeing?

condolences …

#5 – Video Material From the Site of MH17 Crash via LifeNews
Video: Exclusive Footage from the Site of Boeing’s Crash
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QfsV7ZcF2oI

#4 – Possible Alternative Video of MH17, Right Wing on Fire (via Vaughan Fomularo)
UPDATE: Dann Peroni (@roamer43) The video “#4 – Possible Alternative Video of MH17, Right Wing on Fire (via Vaughan Fomularo)” shows a clear blue sky, while in all other videos showing the crash site the sky is overcast!

Video: Malaysian Airlines plane being shot down LIVE! (July 17 2014)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FKIlueJg4cA

#3 – Examining the Tickets and the Passports of Passengers of Flight MH17
Passports are hole-punched – this is what is done to passports when they are cancelled.
@McFaul (https://twitter.com/McFaul) @gbazov (https://twitter.com/gbazov) The date on the ticket? Holes on the passport? What is it? pic.twitter.com/RxJBeob9dy (http://t.co/RxJBeob9dy)
— Татьяна Кузьмина (@nika4888) July 18, 2014 (https://twitter.com/nika4888/statuses/489991365984792576)
#2 – Comparing the Form of the Wing in the Video with the Wings of Boeing
@gbazov (https://twitter.com/gbazov) clearly the wings of the plane in the video are not the ones of a Malaysian Boeing 777 pic.twitter.com/oH9L4WjFqF (http://t.co/oH9L4WjFqF) — Crimea&East (@IndependentKrym) July 18, 2014 (https://twitter.com/IndependentKrym/statuses/489993015507681280)

https://slavyangrad.files.wordpress.com/2014/07/comparison.jpg?w=600 (https://slavyangrad.files.wordpress.com/2014/07/comparison.jpg)


#1 – Video Purporting to be that of MH17 is Actually the Video of An-26 Shot Down Earlier
#FLASH (https://twitter.com/hashtag/FLASH?src=hash) #IMPORTANT (https://twitter.com/hashtag/IMPORTANT?src=hash) – THIS —> https://t.co/e0FiVFdAM2 (https://t.co/e0FiVFdAM2) IS NOT #MH17 (https://twitter.com/hashtag/MH17?src=hash), it’s most likely the An-26 (sound, elevation, form of the wing). PLZ RT. — Gleb Bazov (@gbazov) July 18, 2014 (https://twitter.com/gbazov/statuses/489986495000764416)

FINAL – Part I: Emerging Evidence Points to #MH17 Being a Ukrainian False Flag (http://slavyangrad.wordpress.com/2014/07/18/emerging-evidence-points-to-mh17-being-a-ukrainian-false-flag/)

[Roisin]

(I am writing this with regards to the question - 'who is behind it?', with the many attempts on this thread to answer it, Americans, Russians, Israel, the Ukraninian, not so much with regards to examining the details of the schem)

A cautious observence

you give them two-three sides and they will always take it, as if the diagnosis of the participating figures/countries/players are not yet known..This is the ever winning formula and a carrousel where no one seems to be able to get off from, and why change a winning horse, right?

We argue a diversion and are getting caught up in it ourselves

Keep on at it guys..

The meat grinder still seems to be working well, and the dictating hands are very greatful, they might even find a way to express their gratitude

A clue: The answer can be summed with one word (with the variation of your choice)

Avalonians, why not fly higher, dear friends, and take the bird's eye view..

If we may need a reminder, we can go back to the beginning point and watch this


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yT1GavDtiwM

I know this video song hardly fits the occasion, but if Seymore (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L7SkrYF8lCU) has learned how to say 'No', then maybe so can we

Said with care,

Limor

Found another You Tube copy of that video. Watching it now and it's an excellent primer...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UVQvlG59sJ8

[Cidersomerset]

Found another You Tube copy of that video. Watching it now and it's an excellent primer...



Source: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UVQvlG59sJ8





I watched an hour so far and it reminds you who are in charge.....

from the vid above.....See him lose the plot when confronted by Alex...

GHFoUZEjuNM


-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Alex Jones on gay rituals of Bohemian Grove

QAfMe4Fy1Fo

Uploaded on 15 Jul 2011


Forget about Bilderberg. America hosts its own top-secret pow-wow every summer
in the woods of California, and some of the past participants at the all-male
Bohemian Grove party have included presidents, foreign royalty and Hollywood
elite. They are gathering right now for their two week adventure, and filmmaker
Alex Jones says he once snuck his way onto the secret site.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

It was reported earlier.......portrayed as a boys camp.....Yeah right !!

recDlFPNU6M

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The Cremation of Care - Enhanced Footage


r5dHhvpHIjM

Uploaded on 19 Jan 2009


From Alex Jones' documentary "Dark Secrets: Inside Bohemian Grove". This clip is
the edited, enhanced footage with Alex's commentary. This is what the people who
run the country and own everything like to do to kick back and relax...indulge in
Luciferian/Masonic/Pagan mock human sacrifice rituals. In this ritual, "The
Cremation of Care", the human effigy known as "Dull Care" is sacrificed, and
represents the participants burning away of their conscience. BTW...this was where
Bush picked Cheney to be his running mate (same year this was filmed).


===================================================

The point is if our elites are worshiping or paying homage to ancient religious
icons , they are probably capable of setting up anything.....

[Operator]

...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1fytpEF6-EQ
...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BUfaqm4SpUc
...


There is a lot of demonizing of the rebels and Russia going on in the MSM so I guess we
can figure out where this is going. Putin maybe a good and professional (ex KGB) 'chess'
player but these rebels are probably just a bunch of patriot civilians not even military
trained at all.

Since we know that media will be used/abused to accomplish whatever they want we
need to be careful taking this all in as true and verified facts.

That video of DAHBOO77 suggests that it is real and that is shows that there are no missiles
involved. Well first of all is the source of this video verified? But also think about this:
If the plane came from the other side and we just see an explosion barely over the horizon
what does that prove?

And indeed there are differences in the weather so at least 1 of 2 (maybe even both)
videos is most likely not real.

If a plane went down a few decades ago we would suggest that there was bomb on board.
Now we totally ignore/skip that option we go straight at the key question 'Who shot it
down' ? This plane could have been tampered with ... we shouldn't exclude sabotage.

I think there is no 'control' over this situation and any side can spin the story to its own
liking/agenda.
Black boxes have already been removed etc. Could have been tampered with ... chances on
getting 'clean' facts is already gone.

This will give us a new opportunity to speculate for weeks and will probably go unanswered
like flight MH 370 etc.

Our only hope is confirmed video footage of local people. But even that will come to us
via 'controlled' channels.

[Agape]

No offense taken. We're all here to share our thoughts. :)

It seems that now there is 'evidence' suggesting that many of the victims may have been dead long before the crash...

Again, who were these people?

A convenient pile of undamaged passports...

And, what about the two fighter jets that seemed to escort MH17 right before it disappeared from radar?

I still hold to my original feeling that the crashed plane may indeed be flight MH370 substituting in for MH17.

Whatever the truth, it appears that this incident is being used to frame Russia.

One thing is for certain, Agape: I do not have 'common reasoning'. ;)



You or I may believe that Santa Claus did it and it's still 'plausible option' ?

I'm not pathologist or forensic expert so we will have to leave it to them ... but consider that the 'people' or rather their 'bodies' suffered :

a/pressure wave shock at the moment of the detonation in the air - 33 000 ft above ground

b/fall from the same height for many of them who did not go down with the plane itself

c/another blast on the ground ( some of them anyway ) , possibly from the remaining jet engine (?)

d/to add your theory .. I've heard the first live reporters to the crash site saying there were many children , women and people with 'special medical equipment' ( what was that ? , possibly an oxygenator ? ) ,

Does it mean there were ill people on the plane , and considering that part were headed to the AIDS research conference , could there have been AIDS patients on the plane accompanying the researchers to the conference ( the chance there were few is higher than usually ) , even those in serious medical state ?

Now , no Airline in the world is obliged to release such personal data , unless of course , this would pose national or even global security threat .

In either case there could have people and blood samples on the plane that were , even potentially contagious ,
and even if most of them were destroyed in the process ,

the whole area should be sealed in my opinion .


:angel:

[Agape]

As if I did not say that ...

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-28383625

Ukraine rebels 'destroy MH17 clues'


Ukraine has accused pro-Russian rebels of trying to destroy evidence of "international crimes" at the crash site of a Malaysia Airlines plane.

It said the rebels "led by Russia" were preventing international experts from starting their investigation.

An OSCE team is for a second day being prevented by militiamen from reaching the wreckage.

The jet was reportedly hit by a missile over a rebel-held area in east Ukraine on Thursday. All 298 people died.

Both Ukraine and the rebels have accused each other of shooting it down.

The Boeing 777 flight MH17 was flying from Amsterdam to Kuala Lumpur. It fell between Krasni Luch in Luhansk region and Shakhtarsk in the neighbouring region of Donetsk.

Latest figures released by Malaysia Airlines show the plane was carrying 192 Dutch nationals (including one with dual US citizenship), 44 Malaysians (including 15 crew), 27 Australians, 12 Indonesians and 10 Britons (including one with dual South African citizenship), four Germans, four Belgians, three from the Philippines, and one each from Canada and New Zealand.

Pressure on Russia
In a statement, the Ukrainian government complained that pro-Russian rebels had removed 38 bodies from the site and taken them to a morgue in the rebel-held city of Donetsk.

The BBC's Richard Galpin, who is at the crash site, says he saw bodies being removed but it was not clear who was taking them or where.

The Ukrainian government statement also said the rebels were trying to transport the plane's wreckage to Russia.


It's another fire zone ..

[Roisin]

I also feel sad that this incident happened because it's going to stop a good, competent leader from completing his mission which is to bring Russia back to its former glory. I really, really thought he was going to do that but now, that's not going to happen and I'm sad about that.

Is it his fault? Yes, because he didn't take those precautions necessary to make sure that he/Russia would not be framed in any way, shape or form by his enemies due to what's been going on in Ukraine.


Personally, I wouldn't under-estimate Putin, I don't think this will slow him down much. Putin made a statement stating this shoot down wouldn't of happened if Ukraine wouldn't of been interfered with in the first place.

His fault? It's no more his fault than it is Obama's fault for Israel sweeping through Gaza with US armor and weapons etc. Who armed ISIS?

It's a sick game regardless, yet we still don't know what exactly happened to cause the MH17 to crash, nor who actually did it. It was likely the Russian Separatists, but with all the research I've done thus far, it seems they didn't even know what they were shooting at and didn't realize it was a passenger jet until they came upon the wreckage.

Perhaps Ukraine actually shot it down?

Putin may even become more unpredictable now if it was actually an assassination attempt against him. This has yet to play itself out, they can't just make this go away like they did MH370.

[/url]


I posted a news article in this thread entitled 'What would it take to shoot down a commercial airliner?' or something like that. The info in that article makes it very, very clear that when the Buk missile launcher locks in on its target to shoot it down, it automatically ID's the type of plane it is via the plane's transponder. Commercial airliners have their own unique type of transponder and that expert said that whomever shot down that plane, knew it was a commercial airliner as that aircraft identifier is a built in feature in that technology. And let's face it, anyone who can target an airliner flying at normal speed that's waaaaay up there from the ground using that advanced anti-aircraft technology, can also read whatever information that is popping up on his screen right in front of his eyes as that info pops up automatically. So from this we can surmise that this passenger plane was shot down intentionally and that there was no question as to what type of aircraft it was.

This is important information and it's your choice to ignore it or consider it as true and correct information about that technology regardless that the source is mainstream.

Anyway, the thought crossed my mind that whomever shot that plane down was either an expertly trained operator of that technology on the Ukraine side using their Buk or, if the rumor is true that the 'rebels' had their own Buk, one of the Russian advisors/trainers who was operating that system at that time could have been a double agent working for either the Ukrainians or some other entity. They could have paid him off to shoot down a jumbo 777 so that the rebels/Putin/Russia would be blamed for that action hence turning the world against them and so on....

What's interesting also is that in the news yesterday, it stated that Ukraine arrested a Buk systems expert at the border somewhere. It sounded like that person was Russian and was trying to escape..... but from what? Will see if I can find that article because I didn't read it but will later.

[SilentFeathers]

Why is Malaysia constantly getting, well, hammered?????

Perhaps this may have something to do with these events and the targeting of Malaysian Airlines.....killing an extra bird with one stone so to speak.

This is probably nothing and unrelated, but personally, I'd be watching my back if I was going around pissing off some of these people named below!


Kuala Lumpur War Crimes Commission

The Kuala Lumpur War Crimes Commission (KLWCT), also known as the Kuala Lumpur War Crimes Tribunal, is a Malaysian organisation established in 2007 by Mahathir Mohamad to investigate war crimes.[1][2] The KLWCC was instigated as an alternative to the International Criminal Court in The Hague, which Mahathir accused of bias in its selection of cases to cover.

In November 2011 the tribunal purportedly exercised universal jurisdiction to try in absentia former US President George W. Bush and former British Prime Minister Tony Blair, convicting both for crimes against peace because of what the tribunal concluded was the unlawful invasion of Iraq.[7][8][9]

In May 2012 after hearing testimony for a week from victims of torture at Abu Ghraib and Guantanamo, the tribunal unanimously convicted in absentia former President Bush, former Vice President Dick Cheney, former Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld, former Deputy Assistant Attorneys General John Yoo and Jay Bybee, former Attorney General Alberto Gonzales, and former counselors David Addington and William Haynes II of conspiracy to commit war crimes, specifically torture.[10] The tribunal referred their findings to the chief prosecutor at the International Court of Justice in the Hague.[11]

In November 2013, the tribunal convicted State of Israel guilty of genocide of the Palestinian people and convicted former Israeli general Amos Yaron for crimes against humanity and genocide for his involvement in the Sabra and Shatila massacre.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kuala_Lumpur_War_Crimes_Commission

¤=[Post Update]=¤





I also feel sad that this incident happened because it's going to stop a good, competent leader from completing his mission which is to bring Russia back to its former glory. I really, really thought he was going to do that but now, that's not going to happen and I'm sad about that.

Is it his fault? Yes, because he didn't take those precautions necessary to make sure that he/Russia would not be framed in any way, shape or form by his enemies due to what's been going on in Ukraine.


Personally, I wouldn't under-estimate Putin, I don't think this will slow him down much. Putin made a statement stating this shoot down wouldn't of happened if Ukraine wouldn't of been interfered with in the first place.

His fault? It's no more his fault than it is Obama's fault for Israel sweeping through Gaza with US armor and weapons etc. Who armed ISIS?

It's a sick game regardless, yet we still don't know what exactly happened to cause the MH17 to crash, nor who actually did it. It was likely the Russian Separatists, but with all the research I've done thus far, it seems they didn't even know what they were shooting at and didn't realize it was a passenger jet until they came upon the wreckage.

Perhaps Ukraine actually shot it down?

Putin may even become more unpredictable now if it was actually an assassination attempt against him. This has yet to play itself out, they can't just make this go away like they did MH370.

[/url]


I posted a news article in this thread entitled 'What would it take to shoot down a commercial airliner?' or something like that. The info in that article makes it very, very clear that when the Buk missile launcher locks in on its target to shoot it down, it automatically ID's the type of plane it is via the plane's transponder. Commercial airliners have their own unique type of transponder and that expert said that whomever shot down that plane, knew it was a commercial airliner as that aircraft identifier is a built in feature in that technology. And let's face it, anyone who can target an airliner flying at normal speed that's waaaaay up there from the ground using that advanced anti-aircraft technology, can also read whatever information that is popping up on his screen right in front of his eyes as that info pops up automatically. So from this we can surmise that this passenger plane was shot down intentionally and that there was no question as to what type of aircraft it was.

This is important information and it's your choice to ignore it or consider it as true and correct information about that technology regardless that the source is mainstream.

Anyway, the thought crossed my mind that whomever shot that plane down was either an expertly trained operator of that technology on the Ukraine side using their Buk or, if the rumor is true that the 'rebels' had their own Buk, one of the Russian advisers/trainers who was operating that system at that time could have been a double agent working for either the Ukrainians or some other entity. They probably paid him off to shoot down a jumbo 777 so that the rebels/Putin/Russia would be blamed for that action hence turning the world against them and so on....

What's interesting also is that in the news yesterday, it stated that Ukraine arrested a Buk systems expert at the border somewhere. It sounded like that person was Russian and was trying to escape..... but from what? Will see if I can find that article because I didn't read it but will later.

A Ukrainian fighter jet could of shot this airliner down, I don't believe hardly anything I am reading in the news....

[Jayren]

h-rkWkwLV54

See what you can get from this video.

[Hervé]

#MH17: Why I Leave It There (http://slavyangrad.wordpress.com/2014/07/18/mh17-why-i-leave-it-there/)

In the Opinion of the Editor (http://slavyangrad.wordpress.com/category/in-the-opinion-of-the-editor/) July 18, 2014

http://slavyangrad.files.wordpress.com/2014/07/boeing2.jpg?w=600&h=373 (https://slavyangrad.files.wordpress.com/2014/07/boeing2.jpg)


July 18, 2014, by Marcel Sardo (@marcelsardo (http://slavyangrad.wordpress.com/mentions/marcelsardo/))
“If they can get you asking the wrong questions, they don’t have to worry about answers.”
— Thomas Pynchon, Gravity’s Rainbow
As tragic as the downing of the Malaysian Airliner MH17 is, I have decided to remove myself from the ongoing debate and the search for What Really Happened.

Most of you will agree with me that the whole Story stinks. And most of you will agree, that since the doomed Airliner crashed onto the plains of Eastern Ukraine, all the finger pointing – from the very first moments – was directed at Russia, even though the only ones benefitting from this tragedy are Kiev, and supporters of the criminal and illegitimate Junta, who are waging war against their own people.

There is too much information now about that Airliner, too much counter information, misinformation, half information and information that contradicts all the information just mentioned.

In other Words:

We are getting distracted from the real issue here: The Freedom Fight of the People in Novorossiya and the fact that a War Against Russia is being laid on Track.

If you think I am exaggerating, then you’re not paying attention – and for sure did not follow today’s UNSC Meeting on this issue.

The narrative is now out and spinning and whoever is familiar with the Western MSM knows that there is no turning back now. The Beast wants to be fed.

We do not have the means to determine who shot that Airplane down and why. It could have been the NAF Forces, whether deliberately or not. It could have been the Kiev Junta, whether deliberately or not.

It was for sure not Russia, because Russia would have gained absolutely nothing from such an act – but this seems to be a logic too complicated to grasp for those who call themselves our “Leaders”.

So there remains two possibilities: The Kiev Junta shot down MH17 to blame it on Russia; or the NAF shot down MH17 by mistaking it for a Military Plane.

Or – and nobody talks about this option – it was a tragic “ordinary“ Air Accident that just happened to occur over a strange place at a strange time – bad luck, bad timing.

Hopefully, time will tell the truth one day, although I would not bet any money on that.

However, in the end, this event is a distraction for activists and people like me, who are getting deflected from the core cause we are standing for:

The Liberation of East Ukraine from Fascism and the fight against the threat of War against Russia waged by the Forces of the NWO.

Therefore I have decided to acknowledge the Crash of MH17 as a tragic sad event and a senseless loss of precious lives – and leave it there.

I will not engage in the Subject MH17 anymore, unless and until someone steps in front of a camera and confesses something or presents something, along with some solid evidence.

Until then: «Whatever happens, happens.»

Thank you.
@marcelsardo (http://slavyangrad.wordpress.com/mentions/marcelsardo/)

[Agape]

I posted a news article in this thread entitled 'What would it take to shoot down a commercial airliner?' or something like that. The info in that article makes it very, very clear that when the Buk missile launcher locks in on its target to shoot it down, it automatically ID's the type of plane it is via the plane's transponder. Commercial airliners have their own unique type of transponder and that expert said that whomever shot down that plane, knew it was a commercial airliner as that aircraft identifier is a built in feature in that technology. And let's face it, anyone who can target an airliner flying at normal speed that's waaaaay up there from the ground using that advanced anti-aircraft technology, can also read whatever information that is popping up on his screen right in front of his eyes as that info pops up automatically. So from this we can surmise that this passenger plane was shot down intentionally and that there was no question as to what type of aircraft it was.

This is important information and it's your choice to ignore it or consider it as true and correct information about that technology regardless that the source is mainstream.

Anyway, the thought crossed my mind that whomever shot that plane down was either an expertly trained operator of that technology on the Ukraine side using their Buk or, if the rumor is true that the 'rebels' had their own Buk, one of the Russian advisers/trainers who was operating that system at that time could have been a double agent working for either the Ukrainians or some other entity. They probably paid him off to shoot down a jumbo 777 so that the rebels/Putin/Russia would be blamed for that action hence turning the world against them and so on....

What's interesting also is that in the news yesterday, it stated that Ukraine arrested a Buk systems expert at the border somewhere. It sounded like that person was Russian and was trying to escape..... but from what? Will see if I can find that article because I didn't read it but will later.


It's what the Russian girl-dressed-like-rebel explained to us, in the yesterdays video .

They allegedly shot the plane down because they thought it maybe Ukrainian honey-trap and bomber is hiding in its trail , that's what she said .
It was posted here , two pages ago or so ..
She said that Ukrainians were bombarding their city ( Sloviansk ) and other 'rebel cities' in the area and that they hid bomb plane behind commercial craft .
Tens of people have died and they're without water and electricity, whole area . So that was their reason, given why they shot at the MA17 .


For the second part ..as 'who operated the missiles' , consider this .. till the fall of former USSR they had compulsory army duty for every man for 2 or 3 years .
It's merely 25 years or so which means , by simple calculation that people who were trained to operate these missiles and were 20 or 30 years olds that time are in their 40s and 50s and they're still 'fight capable' .
Even if one in hundred 'knows how to operate it' they'll make use of him and he will . And he is not identified anywhere as an 'expert' , does not have to be,
they trained soldiers to operate everything .

It's an Ukrainian story in that and covering their own backs because they seem less than able to handle the whole situation in Ukraine ,
and it's not too surprising with Russia with their nationalism above their head and the NATO alliance option from the other side .

[Jayren]

A good message by "Dwire"

Hi all, once again the news airwaves are awash with a fresh disaster provoking all kinds of thoughts, emotions & speculations about who, when why what. No doubt, in rooms across the world, conversations are dominated by a new drama with the promise of a whole host of new theories & opinions to cloud the collective psyche of the human family about what happened & why.

I don't know about you, but I'm personally feeling that I'm done with the drama. A new realisation has set in that is drawing me away from the chaos, turning away from the TV & stepping into a brighter & more peaceful condition - one which I feel is the dawn of a personal paradise within.

Since absorbing a host of Abraham Hicks & David Childerley presentations, the cosmic nail is finally beginning to set in & it boils down to a few basic principles.

1) The Universe is essentially vibration.

2) There is a law of attraction which indicates that vibrations attract similar vibrations.

3) 'Human feeling' is our access point or mechanism to making the universe vibrate.

4) If everything in the universe is vibration, then... all of the preferred things, circumstances, situations, relationships, events, outcomes scenarios, people & places that we could ever desire to have in our life experience are also vibration & exist within the vibrational frequency of happiness & joy.

4) So.. all that is required to do, to have these desired & preferred experiences in our lives is to achieve a vibration (feeling) of happiness & joy. The longer the period of time we can be 'in' the vibration of happiness & joy, the more shifting & attraction occurs between us & our joyous desires. We effectivly become a JOY MAGNET.

It has been described as 'the path of least resistance' to everything you could ever wish for - & if we become consistant at it, 'the path of NO resistance' & it's becoming clear why.

Now that I have begun practicing this technique, to everything that is presented to me in daily life, I have found myself asking - "Is this of happiness & joy?". If the answer is "No" then I discard it, making the mental note that this thing (thought, feeling, choice, object, situation or whatever it is) is not part of my life story.

My story is happiness & joy.

In this way, I now discard all that does not vibrate of happiness & joy to me, creating a clearer field of vibration around my being - a vibration more focused on happiness & joy. The trick (i feel right now) is to treat this technique as a new lifestyle.. one which requires regular practice with the aim to become an Olympic level Joy vibration creator.

As we practice this there is no reason that I can see, as a fundamental universal principle why we shouldn't attract all of the things we could ever wish for. In this manner.. personal security, satisfaction, eternal youth, optimum health & vitality & global peace are all achievable.. as they are all things that resonate of happiness & joy. They exist as experiences within that spectrum of vibration.

SO... Does the story of the MH17 disaster represent happiness & joy?

No.

Is it my story? No, my story is Happiness & Joy.

It is my feeling that the alleged 'powers that were' want the mass psyche of the human family to be submerged in vibrations of this nature & they are not foolish, though perhaps a little desperate. It is my belief that at some level within the heirarchy of alleged political authority, the true vibrational nature of the universe & the law of attraction is understood.

All that is needed to keep an entire race of individuals trapped within the distortions of lower vibration, in effect - a self induced vibrational prison, is to bombard a constant flow of stories & events such as this into the eyeballs, minds & hearts of as many people as possible.

The negative feeling of fear & resentment that results within the receiver is enough to create a vortex pumped full of similar vibration, which in turn attracts more of the same.

The way out (in my opinion) is to turn the diatribe of negatvity off & begin to vibrate feelings of happiness & joy. Why would we want anything else in our lives? When we do this, we become a vibration mis-match to negative vibration & therefore repellant to anything that might cause the human vortex to manifest situations of that unpleasing vibration.

That's my take at this point of NOW. If you feel you are drawn to emerse yourself in the energy of the 24hr news (vibrational prison) machine & spend your time examining & breaking these news stories down.. (i have been guilty of this previously) then my advice at this point is - go fun yourself!

A personal paradise is begging for our attention.. you coming?

[SilentFeathers]

Interesting to read: Note, his daughter is a huge AIDS activists.....


Mahathir Mohamad- He established the Kuala Lumpur War Crimes Commission and is its Chairman. He was also the longest sitting Prime Minister of Malaysia and also quite critical of the west.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mahathir_Mohamad

Sometimes weird clues are found in weird places......

[jackovesk]

#MH17: Why I Leave It There (http://slavyangrad.wordpress.com/2014/07/18/mh17-why-i-leave-it-there/)

In the Opinion of the Editor (http://slavyangrad.wordpress.com/category/in-the-opinion-of-the-editor/) July 18, 2014

http://slavyangrad.files.wordpress.com/2014/07/boeing2.jpg?w=600&h=373 (https://slavyangrad.files.wordpress.com/2014/07/boeing2.jpg)


July 18, 2014, by Marcel Sardo (@marcelsardo (http://slavyangrad.wordpress.com/mentions/marcelsardo/))
“If they can get you asking the wrong questions, they don’t have to worry about answers.”
— Thomas Pynchon, Gravity’s Rainbow
As tragic as the downing of the Malaysian Airliner MH17 is, I have decided to remove myself from the ongoing debate and the search for What Really Happened.

Most of you will agree with me that the whole Story stinks. And most of you will agree, that since the doomed Airliner crashed onto the plains of Eastern Ukraine, all the finger pointing – from the very first moments – was directed at Russia, even though the only ones benefitting from this tragedy are Kiev, and supporters of the criminal and illegitimate Junta, who are waging war against their own people.

There is too much information now about that Airliner, too much counter information, misinformation, half information and information that contradicts all the information just mentioned.

In other Words:

We are getting distracted from the real issue here: The Freedom Fight of the People in Novorossiya and the fact that a War Against Russia is being laid on Track.

If you think I am exaggerating, then you’re not paying attention – and for sure did not follow today’s UNSC Meeting on this issue.

The narrative is now out and spinning and whoever is familiar with the Western MSM knows that there is no turning back now. The Beast wants to be fed.

We do not have the means to determine who shot that Airplane down and why. It could have been the NAF Forces, whether deliberately or not. It could have been the Kiev Junta, whether deliberately or not.

It was for sure not Russia, because Russia would have gained absolutely nothing from such an act – but this seems to be a logic too complicated to grasp for those who call themselves our “Leaders”.

So there remains two possibilities: The Kiev Junta shot down MH17 to blame it on Russia; or the NAF shot down MH17 by mistaking it for a Military Plane.

Or – and nobody talks about this option – it was a tragic “ordinary“ Air Accident that just happened to occur over a strange place at a strange time – bad luck, bad timing.

Hopefully, time will tell the truth one day, although I would not bet any money on that.

However, in the end, this event is a distraction for activists and people like me, who are getting deflected from the core cause we are standing for:

The Liberation of East Ukraine from Fascism and the fight against the threat of War against Russia waged by the Forces of the NWO.

Therefore I have decided to acknowledge the Crash of MH17 as a tragic sad event and a senseless loss of precious lives – and leave it there.

I will not engage in the Subject MH17 anymore, unless and until someone steps in front of a camera and confesses something or presents something, along with some solid evidence.

Until then: «Whatever happens, happens.»

Thank you.
@marcelsardo (http://slavyangrad.wordpress.com/mentions/marcelsardo/)

Plenty of food for thought there Amzer Zo...:yes4:

However you forgot one important part of the equation...:confused:

Humanities ability to Fight back without even having to raise an arm in battle...:typing:

Ya see, if we don't start to speak up for ourselves against the CABAL-BRAINWASHING we are literally going to be FED it COLD on a daily basis...

Every Single Time you post something here, there is a magnificent natural force of energy, a force so Powerful it is literally UNSTOPPABLE..!

Words Matter - The Truth Matters & I'll be 'effed' if I'm going to dictated to by these weak PHONY little cowards..!

The Truth & the ongoing (Messy-Debate) that entwines thereafter into a (He said/She said) 'FRENZY' is generally the only way to the the real TRUTH rises to the surface...:yes4:

[Hervé]

... 'don't know about youz folks, but I find this quite damning, if only because it's not widely echoed via MSM:

FINAL – Spanish Air Controller @ Kiev Borispol Airport: Ukraine Military Shot Down Boeing #MH17 (http://slavyangrad.wordpress.com/2014/07/18/spanish-air-controller-kiev-borispol-airport-ukraine-military-shot-down-boeing-mh17/)

Eyewitness Accounts (http://slavyangrad.wordpress.com/category/eyewitness-accounts/) July 18, 2014

FLASH UPDATE: Industry Outlet Confirms Carlos (@spainbuca) as ATC at Borispol in Kiev

(See the Text of Carlos / @spainbuca Tweets Below the Article)

Original: EturboNews (http://www.eturbonews.com/48079/ukraine-air-traffic-controller-suggests-kiev-military-shot-down-) (ETN Global Travel Industry News) – July 17, 2014

ETN received information from an air traffic controller in Kiev on Malaysia Airlines flight MH17.

This Kiev air traffic controller is a citizen of Spain and was working in the Ukraine. He was taken off duty as a civil air-traffic controller along with other foreigners immediately after a Malaysia Airlines passenger aircraft was shot down over the Eastern Ukraine killing 295 passengers and crew on board.

The air traffic controller suggested in a private evaluation and basing it on military sources in Kiev, that the Ukrainian military was behind this shoot down. Radar records were immediately confiscated after it became clear a passenger jet was shot down.

Military air traffic controllers in internal communication acknowledged the military was involved, and some military chatter said they did not know where the order to shoot down the plane originated from.

Obviously it happened after a series of errors, since the very same plane was escorted by two Ukrainian fighter jets until 3 minutes before it disappeared from radar.

Radar screen shots also show an unexplained change of course of the Malaysian Boeing. The change of course took the aircraft directly over the Eastern Ukraine conflict region.

Some tweets received suggest this may have been a secret military uprising against the current Ukrainian president under the direction of formerly-jailed Prime Minister Timoshenko.

According to other rumors, the black box for this crashed Malaysian Airlines flight was taken by Donetsk separatists. A spokesperson for the rebel group said this black box would be sent to the Interstate Aviation Committee headquartered in Moscow.

The First Deputy Prime Minister of the self-proclaimed People’s Republic of Donetsk, Andrew Purgin, stated that the flight recorders of the crashed aircraft will be transferred to Moscow for examination.

Sources say the Rebel group leadership hopes this would confirm the Ukrainian military actually shot down this aircraft. This was reported by the news agency Interfax-Ukraine.

ETN statement: The information in this article is independently confirmed and based on the statement of one airline controller and other tweets received.

Translated from Spanish by Luis Lopez

Source: Tweets by Spanish Air Controller - @spainbuca
@R_of_R (https://twitter.com/R_of_R) @gbazov (https://twitter.com/gbazov) @spainbuca (https://twitter.com/spainbuca) copy of tweets here http://t.co/50vUYVWKmy … https://t.co/mCGXsXWKcM http://t.co/HWT4PGV86Z …
— johnny peterson (@JPexsquaddie) July 18, 2014 (https://twitter.com/JPexsquaddie/statuses/490074067572359168)
CHRONOLOGY OF @spainbuca’s TWITTER FEED

10:21 – 17 de jul. de 2014 Autoridades de kiev, intentan hacer que pueda parecer un ataque de los pro-rusos

“Kiev Authorities, trying to make looks like an attack by pro-Russian”

10:24 – 17 de jul. de 2014 Ojo! Que puede ser un derribo B777 Malaysia Airlines en ukraine, 280 pasajeros

“warning! It can be a downing, Malaysia Airlines B777 in ukraine, 280 passengers”

10:25 – 17 de jul. de 2014 Cuidado! Kiev tiene lo que buscaba

“Warning! Kiev have what they wanted”

10:25 – 17 de jul. de 2014 Vuelven a tomar la torre de control en Kiev

“[Miitary] has taken control of ATC in Kiev”

10:27 – 17 de jul. de 2014 El avión B777 de Malaysia Airlines desapareció del radar, no hubo comunicación de ninguna anomalia, confirmado

“The Malaysia Airlines B777 plane disappeared from the radar, there was no communication of any anomaly, confirmed”

10:30 – 17 de jul. de 2014 Avión derribado, derribados, derribado no accidente

“Plane shot down, shot down, shot down, no accident”

10:31 – 17 de jul. de 2014 Kiev, tiene lo que buscaba, lo dije en los primeros tw, kiev es responsable @ActualidadRT

“Kiev have what they wanted, I said in the first tw [Tweets], Kiev is responsible @ ActualidadRT”

10:35 – 17 de jul. de 2014 Un accidente muy normal no es, no están amenazando en la misma torre del aeropuerto de kiev,

“An accident that is not quite normal, they are threatening us in the same tower of Kiev airport”

10:35 – 17 de jul. de 2014 Nos van a quitar, nuestros tlf y demás de un momento a otro

“they will take from our phones and others stuff at any moment”

10:38 – 17 de jul. de 2014 Antes de que me quiten el tlf o me rompan la cabeza, derribado por Kiev

“Before They remove my phone or they break my head, shot down by Kiev”

11:12 – 17 de jul. de 2014 Nosotros tenemos la confirmación. Avión derribado, la autoridad de kiev, ya tiene la información, derribado, estamos tranquilos ahora

“We have confirmation. Plane downed, Kiev authorities already have the information, downed, we are calm now”

11:13 – 17 de jul. de 2014 Que hace personal extranjero con autoridades de kiev en la torre? Recopilando toda la información

“What are doing foreigners with kiev authorities in the tower? Gathering all the information”

11:15 – 17 de jul. de 2014 Cuando sea posible sigo escribiendo

“When possible I´ll keep writing”

11:48 – 17 de jul. de 2014 El avión B 777 voló escoltado por 2 cazas de ukraine hasta minutos antes, de desaparecer de los radares,

The B777 plane flew escorted by Ukraine jet fighter until 2 minutes before disappearing from the radar,

11:54 – 17 de jul. de 2014 Sí las autoridades de kiev, quieren decir la verdad, esta recogido 2 cazas volaron muy cerca minutos antes , no lo derribo un caza

“If kiev authorities want to tell the truth, It´s gathered, 2 jet fighters flew very close minutes before, wasn’t downed by a fighter”

12:00 – 17 de jul. de 2014 Nada más desaparecer el avión B 777 de Malaysia Airlines la autoridad militar de kiev nos informo del derribo, como lo sabían?

“Malaysia Airlines B777 plane just disappeared and Kiev military authority informed us of the downing, How they knew?”

12:00 – 17 de jul. de 2014 A los 7:00 minutos se notificó el derribo, más tarde se tomó la torre nuestra con personal extranjero q siguen aquí

“7:00 minutes after [plane dissapeared], the downing was notified, later our tower was taken with foreigner staff, they still here ”

12:01 – 17 de jul. de 2014 En los radares esta todo recogido, para los incrédulos, derribado por kiev, aquí lo sabemos y control aéreo militar también

“all this is gathered in radars, to the unbelieving, shot down by kiev, here we know it and military air traffic control also”

13:15 – 17 de jul. de 2014 Aquí los mandos militares manejan y admiten que militares a otras órdenes, pudieron ser, pero no, los pro-rusos

“Here the military commanders manage and support it could be military following other orders , but no, the pro-Russian”

13:29 – 17 de jul. de 2014 El ministro del interior si conocía que, hacían los cazas en la zona, el ministro de defensa no, .

“Interior Minister knew what the fighters were doing in the area, the defense minister didn’t.”

13:31 – 17 de jul. de 2014 Militares confirman que fue ukraine, pero se sigue sin saber de donde vino la orden

“Military confirm It was Ukraine, but still does not know where the order came from”

13:36 – 17 de jul. de 2014 Hace dias lo dije aquí, militares de kiev querían alzarse contra el actual presidente, esto puede ser una forma, a las órdenes de timoshenko

“Days ago I said here, kiev military wanted to rise against the current president, this may be a way, ordered by timoshenko [following timishenko orders]”

13:38 – 17 de jul. de 2014 Los cazas volaron cerca del 777, hasta 3 minutos antes de desaparecer de los radares, solo 3 minutos

“The fighters flew close to 777, up to 3 minutes before disappearing from the radar, just 3 minutes”

13:43 – 17 de jul. de 2014 Se cierra el espacio aéreo

“Airspace closed”

13:45 – 17 de jul. de 2014 Se cierra el espacio aéreo, por miedo a más derribos

“Airspace is closed, more downings feared”

15:17 – 17 de jul. de 2014 Control militar entrega ahora mismo de forma oficial que el avión fue derribado por misil

“military control now officially [say] the plane was shot down by missile”

15:23 – 17 de jul. de 2014 El informe oficial firmado por las autoridades militares de control de kiev ya lo tiene el gobierno,,,, , derribado

“Government has the official report signed by the control military authorities in Kiev,,,, [plane] shot down”

15:26 – 17 de jul. de 2014 En el informe se indica de donde abría salido el misil, y se especifica que no proviene de las autodefensa en las zonas rebeldes

“The report indicates where the missile had come out [from], and specified is not from the selfdefence in rebel areas”

15:34 – 17 de jul. de 2014 Los radares militares si recogieron los datos del misil lanzado al avión, los radares civiles no

“Military radar collected data from missile fired to the plane, civilian radars didn’t”

15:36 – 17 de jul. de 2014 Los altos mandos militares no ordenaron el lanzamiento del misil, ,,alguien se le fue la mano en nombre de ukraine

“military high command did not gave the order to fire the missile, someone screw it ine the name of ukraine”

15:38 – 17 de jul. de 2014 Para el que no lo sepa, digamos así, hay militares a las órdenes del ministro de defensa y militares a las órdenes del ministro del interior

“For those who do not know, Let’s say, there are military under the orders of the defense minister and military under the orders of Interior Minister”

15:38 – 17 de jul. de 2014 Los militares a las órdenes del ministro del interior conocían en cada momento lo que sucedió, .

“The military under the orders of Interior Minister knew what happened all the time .”

16:06 – 17 de jul. de 2014 Mandos militares aquí (ATC) torre de control, confirman que el misil es del ejercito de ukraine,

“Military commanders here (ATC) control tower, confirm that the missile is from the ukranian army,”

16:07 – 17 de jul. de 2014 Mandos militares que si lo sabían y otros mandos que no,

“military commanders that knew it and others didn´t ,”

16:08 – 17 de jul. de 2014 290 personas inocentes muertas, . Por una guerra inútil, donde el patriotismo se compra con dinero

“290 dead innocent people. What a useless war, where patriotism is bought with money”

16:09 – 17 de jul. de 2014 La forma de tomar la torre de control minutos después sabiendo todo los detalles, rápido nos hizo pensar que habían sido ellos

“Thw way the control tower was taken minutes after & knowing all the details, made ​​us think that they [made it]”

16:10 – 17 de jul. de 2014 La cara de los militares que llegaron más tarde diciendo pero que habéis echo, no dejo dudas

“The face of the soldiers who came later saying [what you just did], no chance for doubts”

16:12 – 17 de jul. de 2014 Es tal la decadencia que los militares acompañados de extranjeros que llegaron primero nos llegaron a pedir que dijéramos su versión

“Such is the decline that military who came first accompanied by foreigners came to us asking us to tell their version”

16:13 – 17 de jul. de 2014 Nuestra respuesta, fue, estos radares no recogen el lanzamiento de misiles, los militares si, ya no quedaban dudas

“Our response was, these radars do not collect the launching of missiles, the military ones does, there were no doubts”

[MorningSong]

OMG.. did you guys see that.. the author of that vid is only 15 yo.... bless his awokened soul!

Thanks Jayren! Can anyone tell me how I can get an audio copy of just the speech at the end and who the author is...hmmm?

Edit: Forget I wrote that...I know...

Sorry... and now....Back to topic... sadly....

[jackovesk]

Right then, I'm going straight back into the (((INET_MATRIX))) to unearth some more Truth-Missiles to fire back at the ENEMY...:neo:

http://media.giphy.com/media/vlpAp7O85PsbK/giphy.gifhttp://37.media.tumblr.com/09442a8d12d3085c2a9704f2e5cf0182/tumblr_mj4w3fWIld1qfzndqo1_500.gif
http://media.giphy.com/media/vlpAp7O85PsbK/giphy.gif

:crazy_pilot::becky:

[Operator]

...

“If they can get you asking the wrong questions, they don’t have to worry about answers.”
— Thomas Pynchon, Gravity’s Rainbow

...


Indeed ! It's problem, reaction, solution ...
We're in the middle ... it's our reaction.

We are reacting to media that is manipulated from all sides. If you are going to watch photos
or videos then don't read the corresponding text or listen to the narrative. Turn the volume
down and ask yourself what you are looking at. It will eliminate more than half of all spin
added to it. You will at least come to 'better' conclusions.

If we are asking the question WHO shot it down we already take the preposition that it
WAS shot down and then we're looking in the wrong direction. If mr. Rutte (Dutch prime
minister) pledges not to rest to find the perpetrators who did this he can start in a
place that IS easily accessible to him ... namely Schiphol airport where the plane took
off. Same place where a couple of years ago guys in suits got an underwear bomber
aboard without passport.

There was a parliamentary inquiry (http://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bijlmerramp#Parlementaire_enqu.C3.AAte) after the Bijlmerramp in 1992. Sorry that text is only
available in the Dutch version of the article, use Google Translate to get it in English.
I didn't need a 'parliamentary inquiry' because I could draw my own conclusions a couple
of years before that. And, so it seems, we either didn't learn from it or we chose to
ignore the findings.

[Tesseract]

I am suspicious of this whole Spanish air traffic controller thing - seems even more bogus than Kiev's youtube videos. Need to be discerning and make our inquiries unbiased.

[Operator]

... 'don't know about youz folks, but I find this quite damning, if only because it's not widely echoed via MSM:

FINAL – Spanish Air Controller @ Kiev Borispol Airport: Ukraine Military Shot Down Boeing #MH17 (http://slavyangrad.wordpress.com/2014/07/18/spanish-air-controller-kiev-borispol-airport-ukraine-military-shot-down-boeing-mh17/)
...


An air traffic controller that does not speak English ?
We should check Russian MSM first ... it may be widely echoed on that side ... :eyebrows:

[SilentFeathers]

I am suspicious of this whole Spanish air traffic controller thing - seems even more bogus than Kiev's youtube videos. Need to be discerning and make our inquiries unbiased.

Listening to the some of the actual language used helps to some degree:


http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/02980/Sergei-Ryabkov_2980341c.jpg
Sergei Ryabkov, Russia’s deputy foreign minister

“Without waiting to establish the facts of the matter or for at least initial agreements about an investigation, which we have spoken in favour of, the US administration is de facto trying to place all blame for what happened on the irregulars and the Russian side,” he said.

Dmitry Rogozin, a Russian deputy prime minister, echoed the criticism, saying: “The White House even before the investigation of the Boeing catastrophe clearly established who’s guilty. Earlier on the White House established the same way that Saddam had WMD [weapons of mass destruction].”

Mr Ryabkov said Washington’s position was no surprise because it had already “stirred up internal political tension in Ukraine, provoking an anti-constitutional seizure of power, and supported anti-Russian politicians”.

He added: “In its geopolitical frenzy and its attempt to use methods of socio-political engineering everywhere, the United States is acting like a bad surgeon: cut deeper at first, and then stitch up sloppily so that it will hurt for a long time.”

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/ukraine/10978040/Russia-accuses-US-of-geopolitical-frenzy-over-Malaysian-Airlines-plane-crash.html

and by the way, where is the physical proof/evidence that a Russian made missile took down this plane????

[Hervé]

... 'don't know about youz folks, but I find this quite damning, if only because it's not widely echoed via MSM:

FINAL – Spanish Air Controller @ Kiev Borispol Airport: Ukraine Military Shot Down Boeing #MH17 (http://slavyangrad.wordpress.com/2014/07/18/spanish-air-controller-kiev-borispol-airport-ukraine-military-shot-down-boeing-mh17/)
...


An air traffic controller that does not speak English ?
We should check Russian MSM first ... it may be widely echoed on that side ... :eyebrows:

However, Carlos may be speaking Russian? But, would not use either one of those languages when calling "home." I thinK... :confused:

[EYES WIDE OPEN]

Before any tells you otherwise this is footage from Ukraine Military Aircraft Shot Down Over Slovyansk a month ago. NOT the Malaysia crash.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n60vAtZBrsI

[Hervé]

I am suspicious .... Need to be ... unbiased.

Indeed!

Tweets have a time stamp...

Carlos Twitter account has been deleted/cancelled... all gone now...

So, I too, am suspicious :)

[Sophocles]

There`s an interview with Carlos (@SPAINBUCA) on spanish RT dated may 8. 2014. I am thinking it could be the same person, or that someone has misused his twitteraccount.

Title (in spanish): Amenazan de muerte a un español en Ucrania por opinar sobre la crisis

Link: http://actualidad.rt.com/actualidad/view/127516-amenazar-controlador-espanol-ucrania-crisis

[gripreaper]

Here is the Malaysian Patronas twin towers in Kuala Lumpur.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/85/Petronas_Panorama_II.jpg/640px-Petronas_Panorama_II.jpg

So, the financial interests at the top of the power pyramid, do not like some of the moves Malaysia is making? Did they wander off the reservation and go off script? Are they attempting to go against the petrodollar and the monied interests of the Federal Reserve, and join an alliance of rogue countries who no longer want to exchange tangibles for worthless fiat and debt?

How is this all tied together in regards to the Bilderberger agreements and how all countries are to remain within the system which is aligned to operate and develop an economy and technology which fulfills a global agenda against an outside extraterrestrial threat? Was this agreement to run 70 years from the mid 1930's to the mid 2000's? How does this tie into 9-11? Who is not living up to their end of the agreement, and who is pissed off and making chess moves?

Whatever this is and why Malaysia is the target, has to do with some infighting at the very top of the power pyramid, in my opinion. Someone went off the reservation and is not following the script. The rest of it is just noise.

[Roisin]

And what about Carlos?
A simple search reveals that MH17 was in fact diverted 200km north from the usual flight path taken by Malaysian Airlines in the previous days – and plunged right in the middle of a war zone. Why? What sort of communication had MH17 received from the Kiev air control tower?

Kiev has been mute about it. Yet the answer would be simple, had Kiev released the Air Traffic Control recording of the tower talking to flight MH17; Malaysia did it after flight MH370 disappeared forever.

It won’t happen; SBU security confiscated it. So much for getting an undoctored explanation as to why MH17 was off its path, and what the pilots saw and said before the explosion.

The Russian Defense Ministry, for its part, has confirmed that a Kiev-controlled Buk anti-aircraft missile battery was operational near the MH17’s crash. Kiev has deployed several batteries of Buk surface-to-air missile systems with at least 27 launchers; these are all perfectly capable of bringing down jets flying at 33,000 ft.

Radiation from a battery’s Kupol radar, deployed as part of a Buk-M1 battery near Styla [a village some 30km south of Donetsk] was detected by the Russian military. According to the ministry, the radar could be providing tracking information to another battery which was at a firing distance from MH17’s flight path.

The tracking radar range on the Buk system is a maximum of 50 miles (80km). MH17 was flying at 500mph. So assuming the ‘rebels’ had an operational Buk and did it, they would have had not more than five minutes to scan all the skies above, all possible altitudes, and then lock on. By then they would have known that a cargo plane could not possibly be flying that high.

For evidence supporting the possibility of a false flag, check here.

And then there’s the curiouser and curiouser story of Carlos, the Spanish air traffic controller working at Kiev’s tower, who was following MH17 in real time. For some Carlos is legit - not a cipher; for others, he’s never even worked in Ukraine. Anyway he tweeted like mad. His account – not accidentally – has been shut down and he has disappeared. His friends are now desperately looking for him. I managed to read all his tweets in Spanish when the account was still online. And now copies and an English translation are available.

These are some of his crucial tweets:

“The B777 was escorted by 2 Ukrainian fighter jets minutes before disappearing from radar (5.48pm)”

“If the Kiev authorities want to admit the truth 2 fighter jets were flying very close a few minutes before the incident but did not shoot down the airliner (5.54)”

“As soon as the Malaysia Airlines B777 disappeared the Kiev military authority informed us of the shooting down. How did they know? (6.00)”

"Everything has been recorded on radar. For those that don’t believe it, it was taken down by Kiev; we know that here (in traffic control) and the military air traffic control know it too (7.14)”

“The Ministry of the Interior did know that there were fighter aircraft in the area, but the Ministry of Defense didn’t. (7.15)”

“The military confirm that it was Ukraine, but it is not known where the order came from. (7.31)”

Carlos’s assessment (a partial compilation of his tweets is collected here: the missile was fired by the Ukraine military under orders of the Ministry of Interior - NOT the Ministry of Defense. Security matters at the Ministry of the Interior happen to be under Andrey Paruby, who was closely working alongside US neo-cons and Banderastan neo-Nazis on Maidan.

Assuming Carlos is legit, the assessment makes sense. The Ukrainian military are divided between Chocolate king [President Petro] Poroshenko – who would like a détente with Russia essentially to advance his shady business interests - and St. Yulia Tymoshenko, who’s on the record advocating genocide of ethnic Russians in eastern Ukraine. US neo-cons and US “military advisers” on the ground are proverbially hedging their bets, supporting both the Poroshenko and Tymoshenko factions.

http://rt.com/op-edge/174088-was-it-putin-missile/

[ParakeetMGP]

I believe MH17 is fabricated and a Lie. I saw a picture on this Yahoo News page of the wreckage and showing a broken jet turban. What I saw was a weed that ggreeww through this turban. Like a very old shot. Like this wreckage and broken turban was sitting on the ground for at least 3 months or longer. So? It might be more likely that this is that other missing airliner in March? MH370? or more Fabrications and Lies to deceive the political world I don't get myself into.

[Maia Gabrial]

I haven't read all the comments, so if this video has been posted, sorry. It's by DAHBOO77 doing his usual best to dig up the truth:

28MrASx-RiM

[Ron Mauer Sr]

It is interesting to contrast the large amount of debris from the MH17 crash, yet almost no debris was found from United Airlines Flight 93, "supposedly" crashed in Shanksville, Pennsylvania on September 11, 2001.

Why is there so much difference between these incidents?

Reference: (http://911blogger.com/news/2013-02-19/shanksville-pennsylvania-911-mysterious-plane-crash-site-without-plane)

The field where Flight 93 allegedly crashed

"This crash was different. There was no wreckage, no bodies, and no noise."
- Somerset County Coroner Wallace Miller [1]

"I was looking for anything that said tail, wing, plane, metal. There was nothing."
- Photographer Scott Spangler [2]

"I was amazed because it did not, in any way, shape, or form, look like a plane crash."
- Patrick Madigan, commander of the Somerset barracks
of the Pennsylvania State Police [3]

[Tesseract]

Carlos ought to give a press conference, if he has a bona fide story to tell.

[SilentFeathers]

Carlos ought to give a press conference, if he has a bona fide story to tell.

If he's telling the truth he's probably already had an unfortunate accident.....you know, such as; accidentally fell off a 60 story building.....

Whoops, I meant from the "7th" floor of a "77" story building....

[SilentFeathers]

It is interesting to contrast the large amount of debris from the MH17 crash, yet almost no debris was found from United Airlines Flight 93, "supposedly" crashed in Shanksville, Pennsylvania on September 11, 2001.

Why is there so much difference between these incidents?

Reference: (http://911blogger.com/news/2013-02-19/shanksville-pennsylvania-911-mysterious-plane-crash-site-without-plane)

The field where Flight 93 allegedly crashed

"This crash was different. There was no wreckage, no bodies, and no noise."
- Somerset County Coroner Wallace Miller [1]

"I was looking for anything that said tail, wing, plane, metal. There was nothing."
- Photographer Scott Spangler [2]

"I was amazed because it did not, in any way, shape, or form, look like a plane crash."
- Patrick Madigan, commander of the Somerset barracks
of the Pennsylvania State Police [3]

That now makes 3 jet airliners missing, 1 from Shanksville, 1 that allegedly hit the Pentagon, and now MH370. Someone could do some major damage with 3 airliners....

[Pris]

No offense taken. We're all here to share our thoughts. :)

It seems that now there is 'evidence' suggesting that many of the victims may have been dead long before the crash...

Again, who were these people?

A convenient pile of undamaged passports...

And, what about the two fighter jets that seemed to escort MH17 right before it disappeared from radar?

I still hold to my original feeling that the crashed plane may indeed be flight MH370 substituting in for MH17.

Whatever the truth, it appears that this incident is being used to frame Russia.

One thing is for certain, Agape: I do not have 'common reasoning'. ;)



You or I may believe that Santa Claus did it and it's still 'plausible option' ?

I'm not pathologist or forensic expert so we will have to leave it to them ... but consider that the 'people' or rather their 'bodies' suffered :

a/pressure wave shock at the moment of the detonation in the air - 33 000 ft above ground

b/fall from the same height for many of them who did not go down with the plane itself

c/another blast on the ground ( some of them anyway ) , possibly from the remaining jet engine (?)

d/to add your theory .. I've heard the first live reporters to the crash site saying there were many children , women and people with 'special medical equipment' ( what was that ? , possibly an oxygenator ? ) ,

Does it mean there were ill people on the plane , and considering that part were headed to the AIDS research conference , could there have been AIDS patients on the plane accompanying the researchers to the conference ( the chance there were few is higher than usually ) , even those in serious medical state ?

Now , no Airline in the world is obliged to release such personal data , unless of course , this would pose national or even global security threat .

In either case there could have people and blood samples on the plane that were , even potentially contagious ,
and even if most of them were destroyed in the process ,

the whole area should be sealed in my opinion .


:angel:

Why you are bringing Santa Claus into this is beyond me.

I think you're missing my point, Agape. There is no question that people have suffered horribly and have been killed.

We do not know when, why, and how they were killed at this point.

I am questioning who the victims were. For example, were there really 100 AIDS scientists on that plane? Now, I'm hearing that number may be greatly reduced. It seems to be a setup to cause an intense, negative emotional reaction from the public. Sounds familiar? Apparently, the 'Cabal' like that kind of energy.

We've been fooled many times before.

Was there a plane switch/passenger switch? How does one explain bodies that appear to have been dead for days?

Could the whole event be a 'false flag' just to stir things up? Yes, of course it could be! We know the track record of the 'Cabal'.

I do not accept anything as 'proof' at this point.

Frankly, it's ridiculous that we're arguing about this.

[avid]

need to re-appraise my post in light of developments

However - Amzer-Zo - thanks for all the info, and the back-up of all!
I am of the opinion that the plane was carrying dead/diseased bodies, and the puppet-Israelis have something to gain by fomenting yet another Zionist war to keep our eyes off the atrocities in Gaza. The VT post about Israel/usa-lent aircraft was enough for me for the timing. They are always deeply involved in any false flags. Whilst the vast war on economy is rumbling in the background of BRICS. Saudis are panicking, their stronghold on oil is at stake, they are the tools of the financial oligarchs.

Time for me to go and dig for garden veggies, with a wee bit of a 'dust-cover' to ensure decent crops!

These times are so ludicrous the parents would have me committed to an asylum! They are all dying of poisoned brains - everyone old seems now to have alzheimers or dementia. Surely that isn't right? However - the battle of the "lies in the skies" is ongoing, and the MSM rhetoric is truly pathetically sickening.

[sigma6]

Total Psy Op - Looks Like Mossad - Which Means the US is party to it as well... Is this a surprise to anyone?


Was Airplane Shootdown Faked?
http://tomatobubble.com/id626.html

Notice how the Times, or rather, the "American officials" quoted in the first propaganda piece, make it a point to say that the missile believed to have brought down a Malaysian airliner, "might have been Russian made". One could just as easily speculate that it was "European made" or "American made", right? But the fix is already in to blame Putin for this mysterious tragedy.

What we find most intriguing are what appear to be staged photos surrounding this event - always a sure sign of CIA-Mossad orchestration. The "child's pink book" mentioned in the 2nd piece stinks of cornball Hollywood staging. With no known Americans on board, and just a handful of Australians, how convenient that the "pink book" should be written in English. See for yourself how strange, and how staged, some of these "wreckage" photos appear to be.

These pictures look totally faked. And don't match the original crash site, which itself is totally faked, At least this time, unlike 911, the plane didn't totally evaporate. So whoever is staging this is definitely upping their 'game'

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2014/07/18/article-2696975-1FC1B02E00000578-117_964x640.jpg

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2014/07/18/article-2696975-1FC1CD2400000578-457_964x643.jpg

[sigma6]

No offense taken. We're all here to share our thoughts. :)
It seems that now there is 'evidence' suggesting that many of the victims may have been dead long before the crash...
Again, who were these people?
A convenient pile of undamaged passports...
And, what about the two fighter jets that seemed to escort MH17 right before it disappeared from radar?
I still hold to my original feeling that the crashed plane may indeed be flight MH370 substituting in for MH17.
Whatever the truth, it appears that this incident is being used to frame Russia.
One thing is for certain, Agape: I do not have 'common reasoning'. ;)

You or I may believe that Santa Claus did it and it's still 'plausible option' ?
I'm not pathologist or forensic expert so we will have to leave it to them ... but consider that the 'people' or rather their 'bodies' suffered :
a/pressure wave shock at the moment of the detonation in the air - 33 000 ft above ground
b/fall from the same height for many of them who did not go down with the plane itself
c/another blast on the ground ( some of them anyway ) , possibly from the remaining jet engine (?)
d/to add your theory .. I've heard the first live reporters to the crash site saying there were many children , women and people with 'special medical equipment' ( what was that ? , possibly an oxygenator ? ) ,
Does it mean there were ill people on the plane , and considering that part were headed to the AIDS research conference , could there have been AIDS patients on the plane accompanying the researchers to the conference ( the chance there were few is higher than usually ) , even those in serious medical state ?
Now , no Airline in the world is obliged to release such personal data , unless of course , this would pose national or even global security threat .
In either case there could have people and blood samples on the plane that were , even potentially contagious ,
and even if most of them were destroyed in the process ,
the whole area should be sealed in my opinion .


:angel:
Why you are bringing Santa Claus into this is beyond me.
I think you're missing my point, Agape. There is no question that people have suffered horribly and have been killed.
We do not know when, why, and how they were killed at this point.
I am questioning who the victims were. For example, were there really 100 AIDS scientists on that plane? Now, I'm hearing that number may be greatly reduced. It seems to be a setup to cause an intense, negative emotional reaction from the public. Sounds familiar? Apparently, the 'Cabal' like that kind of energy.
We've been fooled many times before.
Was there a plane switch/passenger switch? How does one explain bodies that appear to have been dead for days?
Could the whole event be a 'false flag' just to stir things up? Yes, of course it could be! We know the track record of the 'Cabal'.
I do not accept anything as 'proof' at this point.
Frankly, it's ridiculous that we're arguing about this.

All options are open, I do think it is plausible this plane could be MH370, the Israelis almost gave it away suggesting that the plane was hi-jacked for an attack against them. This usually happens when they aren't certain the MSM propaganda is going to work and someone has leaked the real info, so they suggest something like that to "cover themselves" just in case. Even if it is a False Flag Psyop... And I think the whole planet is catching on that is what this is... There may be "new rules" regarding how many people are they legally allowed to premeditatively kill. Especially now that a lot of these False Flags are targeting innocent civilians. So filling a plane with dead body parts, might be a necessary legal protocol. Just as it was suggested the passengers of MH370 were all drugged and kept in captivity for the rest of their lives... (as ridiculous as these "rules" might sound to us)

The best thing is this is flying apart faster then the Spin Drs can fake it up... We are awake, we are aware, and the truth will out on this... Less and less people are being fooled. There is nothing to take for granted either... It seems more information is coming in faster then ever before...

This is a good sign... Congratulations to all who have brought forth and shared info...

[Zampano]

A little sidenote:
When I was in Australia I had a stop in Kuala Lumpur to change the plane. Instead I spent 3 weeks there and travelled a bit arround.
I met a lot of good people there-this was 7 years ago or so.

What was really interesting to me, that you can find the majority of the worlds main religions living together moreorless in peace.
More than less in peace.
The majority is Muslim secular or not

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_Malaysia

And the rest is Christiniaty, Taosim, Buddhism, Hinduism, Ba Hai and Shikism.

What I saw there is, that they can live together in peace!
You have Muslim neighbourhoods and Christians together and on and on. Hindus and Sikhs.


Whats going on behind the veil, I dont know, but I think Malaysia is a role model on diversity in any colour and faith.

[sigma6]

Was Airplane Shootdown Faked?
http://tomatobubble.com/id626.html

Already Posted this here.
Total Psy Op - Looks Like Mossad - Which Means the US is party to it as well... Is this a surprise to anyone?
http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?73059-MH17-shoot-down-Was-Putin-s-plane-the-real-target&p=855335&viewfull=1#post855335

All the signs that the "war" has begun, even if it is a controlled underground Western Vatican/Banking Cabal vs Russia/Brics black ops tit for tat, i.e. it is clear they want to Strike but they want to create a "moral high ground" (as ironic and hypocritical as that must sound) ...to milk public sympathy which they will need to mobilize the suckers in all the militaries to kill themselves, as well as the get the "general public" to support it...

This thread is getting a torrent of responses, I personally can't follow threads that go past 100-200 posts as things often just get redundant and confusing and diluted. I wonder if there is a way, since so much information is coming in.... to break this up into Separate Categories?

Also just a suggestion, since this thing seems to be exploding faster then anything we have seen before.

False Flag Info: major theme.
Info related to falsified news, reports, documents, photos.

MH17 flight path...

Spanish Air Traffic Controller, Ukrainian Jet Info...

Sites with conspiracy research... as a list of references...


Anything related to the BRICS financial conglomeration, and the Banker Cartel/Vatican responses


I can't really think of good topics right off, because we don't know exactly with what we are dealing with...
So really If this was broken down into the 5 top topics decided by Avanlon, then start each post with MH17 Crash: Blah blah blah...

[Operator]

...
Whats going on behind the veil, I dont know, but I think Malaysia is a role model on diversity in any colour and faith.

Well, perhaps that's the answer right there ... ;)

[sigma6]

...found this:

How Satellites Give Clues About Malaysia Jet Attack in Ukraine
A family of satellites known as the U.S. Space Based Infrared System, or SBIRS, was probably key to determining that a surface-to-air missile took down the Malaysia Airlines Boeing 777 jet over Ukraine on Thursday. The satellites fly in geosynchronous orbit, 22,300 miles above the planet, and use infrared sensors to detect heat sources on the ground, such as rocket or missile plumes. Five are operational at all times, and they're supplemented by infrared sensors on other satellites that are part of the Defense Support Program, or DSP.
Since the 1970s, the principal mission of the DSP family has been to detect launches of intercontinental ballistic missiles and sea-launched ballistic missiles via their plumes. During the Vietnam War, defense officials found that the satellites could also detect the signatures of smaller missile launches, midair explosions and nuclear tests. SBIRS readings are downloaded and initially analyzed at Buckley Air National Guard Base in Aurora, Colorado. Last month, Lockheed Martin won a $1.9 billion contract to expand the satellite system.

See the vid entitled: Authorities Will Look for Radar Data, Inferred Info in Malaysia Crash at the link:
http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/ukraine-plane-crash/how-satellites-give-clues-about-malaysia-jet-attack-ukraine-n158741
This too, talks about the sats that could reveal info on who did it and from where:

What Brought Down the Malaysia Airlines Jet Over Ukraine?
By Robert Windrem, Jim Miklaszewski and Courtney Kube
http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/ukraine-plane-crash/what-brought-down-malaysia-airlines-jet-over-ukraine-n158601

Only one problem, it's all US controlled and if they are the culprit the information will be 100% worthless if not completely falsified...

[Operator]

Was Airplane Shootdown Faked?
http://tomatobubble.com/id626.html
...


Good question ... crossed my mind also.

This is however probably same as Apollo moon landings ... the feat maybe true however the media presented
to the public is totally fabricated to fit a storyline. Happens all the time ... so why not here?

[sigma6]

http://lifenews.ru/watch-live LIVE NEWS FEED - VERY GRAPHIC!!!!!!! Bodies everywhere.
They're saying there was either one or several disabled people on the plane with accompanying medical equipment , many children , women among all .
Then also pointing to news in some internet newspaper where it's claimed that missiles of such long range capability are in the rebels possession ( contrary to some of the previous statements ) ..and , it was reportedly calculated that the missile was fired from the Donetsk area .
Disgusting . And very dangerous to everybody around . I still find hard to believe them .
:sick:

This is outdated.... Daboo's video and the logical interpretation indicate it couldn't have been shot in the sky... So the REMOTE CONTROL OPTION is making MORE SENSE at this point. Based on the map where it went "offline" they just had to fly it in a straight line and drop altitude and crash it. Then it exploded ON THE GROUND... (filled with explosives?)

¤=[Post Update]=¤


Has anybody seen the Jim Stone site? There is a screen shot showing a flight display with MH17 was cancelled, he then surmises that flight MH 370 plane was used and remotely controlled into the area where it was shot down.

Also mentions that it was extremely quick that those responsible were found and what missile was used, and I will guess that it is probably true that photos were quick to emerge, also mentioned was a comparison to flight 93 from 9/11 comparing amounts of wreckage - bloody interesting i will admit

I awoke to this news and my firsts thought were false flag and expect MSM lies, very sad that I felt this way and very sad to the see the MSM juggernaut run with this in their rabid dog fashion.

It would be helpful to add a Title, some excerpt and a link ... for post like this.

[onawah]

Twin (Twin?) 777 from MH 370 Finally Resurfaces in Ukraine
From Forbidden Knowledge


There seems to me to be a distinct
likelihood that the Malaysia Flight 370
airliner - the Boeing 777 Twin Jet - or
else its twin has finally resurfaced, in
the disputed territory surrounding
Donetsk, Ukraine.

So says Clifford Anthony Paiva, a Navy
Veteran with a Master's Degree in
Geophysics who created the video below,
as well as this previous one, who asserts
that this plane was not shot down by a
missile but was deposited there by land
and detonated at its purported "crash
site."

Paiva notes the many hallmarks of an
astonishingly poorly-executed False Flag
operation, including these "obvious
blunders for this stupid CIA operation,"
including "1) Very colorful clothing, seats
and passports, all unconsumed by the
"impact" inferno, of course! 2) No lays on
the ground with their bodies (to say
nothing of their clothes), unburned. Even
for the US-CIA, this is manifestly stupid!
3) Very clear [tire] tracks leading to the
"impact" site; another unnecessary
oversight by the same incompetent United
Airlines Flight 93 team. 4) And of course!
NO BLACK BOX! (Voice and Flight Data
Recorder), at least for public confirmation
of the newest Malaysian-CIA Flight storyline.

"Incidentally, not only are NO bodies
(uncovered with some material) present,
absolutely NO missile radar track files are
presented. NO, this is just more White House
nonsense...and having worked crash fires for
the US Air Force, I can say with some
authority, [a] crash site does NOT end abruptly.
[Here], the grass goes untouched."

It remains now for the world's planespotters to
determine if this is the aircraft from Flight 370,
or if this is its twin Twin Jet, purchased by a
shady South Florida aviation company, with
records indicating that it has been held in
storage in a country I won't name here but as
previously reported, here and here.

Video (2 minutes):
8ERd9Fz_1NA

http://www.forbiddenknowledgetv.com/videos/911--false-flags/twin-twin-777-from-mh-370-finally-resurfaces-in-ukraine.html
http://www.forbiddenknowledgetv.com/page/26548.html

[sigma6]

Yes... are we seeing MH370 here? Was it substituted in -- to 'replace' flight MH17... a way to destroy the evidence and kill all the people on board?!

Was this some kind of a setup to appear like a missile hit?!

Me too I'm having sort of 'deja vu' but don't think this is correct version . The passengers were different people ..

Right, it's like Groundhog Day.

At any rate, that this second Malaysian Airline incident occurred where it did today. Not to mention all of the political ramifications of that especially between the US and Russia, may have been all planned out to provide a diversion from the real reason why that plane was shot down. IOW, it's just a noisy clashing of loud drums to obfuscate the background music which I think threads a strong link between what happened today and what happened on March 8th.

Not that 370 was shot down too but I don't think it's a coincidence that the plane that was shot down today was a Malaysian Airliner too. There's a link there and it should be investigated. I'm not seeing anything in the media about that either. So that in itself is raising a lot of red flags. The talking heads on the news are totally leaving out any connections between both incidents.

370 was flown to Diego Garcia, we were even contacted by one of the engineers that managed to stuff his iphone up his arse, and the world didn't even pay it attention and there was no followup (pathetic) to what could have been a life and death world changing tip... that's not how detective work is done, last I checked...

They can't connect it to the last event because THEY DENIED THAT TOO... that's the beauty of denial, it creates an ideal breeding ground for dementia in your future years (statistics actually prove this...)

[Zampano]

Okidoki-I have to say, after some researching, that according to Malaysian law,
that same sex sexual activity is not legal.
There it goes the colour.

[Pris]

Has anyone followed up on what happened to that Boeing 777 cargo plane that got diverted to Germany?

David Wilcock suggested that plane may have been flight MH370. David also suggested it's possible this flight was meant to crash into the Nuclear Summit Meeting at the Hague.


Here's a link to David's whole article: "Flight 370: The Straw That Breaks the Cabal's Back".

http://divinecosmos.com/start-here/davids-blog/1159-flight-370

Most of the information relating to this is near the bottom of page 4:

http://divinecosmos.com/start-here/davids-blog/1159-flight-370?showall=&start=3


Let's suppose David is onto something. If the first plan using flight MH370 was 'foiled' (thanks Weird Al), could this new event with flight MH17 be Plan B -- pulling MH370 back out of storage?

[sigma6]

I hear with my own ears, anderson cooper refer to the anniversary of flight 800 which was also "shot down by a missle".
Happened at 3 40 pm on cnn. Has anyone else heard this?

It is true. Are we surprised? http://www.usatoday.com/story/travel/news/2014/07/17/malaysia-flight-17-twa-flight-800-annivesary/12784535/


Malaysia crash shares anniversary with TWA Flight 800 USA TODAY - 2 hours ago Oddly, today's crash of a Malaysia Airlines Flight 17 shares a date with another major airline disaster, the crash of TWA Flight 800 over Long ...

More numerology. TWA flight 800 crashed in 1996 so 1+9+9+6=25 2+5=7. 2014. 2+0+1+4=7.

Then there's the 295 passengers and crew. 2 + 9 + 5 = 16 1 + 6 =7

Sorry but the only Numerology number I see is (8)

MH17 (1 + 7) = 8

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-8RDyhzijHJg/UQ-nf-5F0oI/AAAAAAAAB_c/vcTuE4VB4Xw/s1600/images+(2).jpg


The 8 is the great Karmic equalizer, a force that just as easily creates as it destroys. When the 8 comes knocking, you can be assured that you will reap what you've sown.

http://www.numerology.com/numerology-numbers/8



NUMBER 8

Number 8 resonates with the influences and vibrations of authority and personal power, self-confidence, executive ability, confidence, inner-strength, professionalism and the professional, management, material freedom, success, good judgement, money, finances, riches, manifesting wealth, abundance and prosperity, provision, investments, discrimination and discernment, giving and receiving, thoroughness, dependability, self-reliance, repose, practicality, consideration, inner-wisdom, self-sufficiency, social status, pragmatism, the ego, aggregation, compassion, dictatorship, executive, delegation, reality, truth and integrity, compassion, dictatorship, multiples, employment, stability, appearance, customs, skills and talents, exchanges, truth, good judgement and problem-solving, organisation and organizing, achieving and achievements, decisiveness, control, constant, ambition, the authoritarian, challenge, efficiency, trustworthiness, insight, planning and the planner, sociability, works independently, learning through experience, true justice, retreat, patience, caution, self-discipline, free-will, insight, spiritual consciousness, expansion, dissolution, dimension of the timeless, good and bad, right and wrong, day and night, ability to see and relate to eternal dimensions, balance between forces, connects spirit and matter, developing confidence to follow a vision, breaks down barriers to transformation, reality, courage, a desire for peace and a love of humanity and world transformation.

Number 8 relates to the concept of karma – the Universal Spiritual Law of Cause and Effect.

Relates to:
The North Node of the Moon (individual fate)
Strength Tarot Card
Sunday
Colour: Silver

Character:
The Boss, powerful drive to succeed, decision-making, intensely active, seizes opportunities, takes control, wants security, success.

http://numerology-thenumbersandtheirmeanings.blogspot.com.au/2011/05/number-8.html

PSS - In simpler terms the (No.8)

Resurrection, new Beginings - In the Bible represents a new beginning, meaning a New Order or Creation, and man's true 'Born Again' event when he is resurrected from the dead into eternal life.

http://www.biblestudy.org/bibleref/meaning-of-numbers-in-bible/8.html

PSSS - The Date:

7-17-2014

7 + 17 + 2 + 1 + 4 = 31 (3 + 1) = 4

What's 8 ÷ 4 = 2

This is only the 1st False Flag, Bigger one yet to come...:noidea:


I think all this numerology stuff is bunk, in the sense that it is just a system used to let other Secret Society members know that a "hit" has taken place, When you see an event that has numbers like 9/11 or 7/7 or 3/11 and add some of their coded meanings for what some of these numbers might represent... then you have the basic idea of what went down. You can also use a simple statistical model to say "hey, those numbers are NOT random... that must be one of my "Secret Society" buddies doing a hit... I better go down to the local lodge, give the secret handshake, (saying I'm not one of the looney goodie goodies acting as a cover for what is really going on... but an actual higher level member that is hiding behind them... to get the inside story... )

Also the numbers serve as an organizational mnemonic device. And since there are so many of these going down, they must have decided to line up the satanic holidays with special easy to remember dates, What could be an easier mnemonic then 9/11 and 7/7 or 3/11?

Let's read what is in front of our faces first, before we read "between" the lines... these numbers are mnemonic relating to specific dates and they are NON RANDOM as could be proven statistically.


And now for some speculations... and the meaning behind the 7s... are you ready... :O

It means the Illuminati Banking Cartel family Washington DC/Inner City of London/Vatican Trilateral group are saying... this is a massive crap shoot... as in...

Come on 7s!!! Daddy needs a New World Order!! Come on 7's !!!! :D





Ok, so it's not total bunk (just did that to get your attention...hehe) But it is just a method of telegraphing information in the public to let other parties know, that a "hit" is going down...

[sigma6]

Russian separatists supposedly claim responsibility V5E8kDo2n6g to me this was expected, but from what we know for several sources none of these separatist groups had fire power to shoot down such a high plane. False flag for the sheeple to pile on for justice and nail Russians to the cross for something that globalist backing Ukraine most likely did IMHO

and of course comment from utube have been suspended

DAHBOO7 already on this one....

28MrASx-RiM


Daboo77 Rocks... (EYES OPEN!)
This deserves a bump and needs as much coverage as possible. Want to make a difference? Forward this link to EVERYONE you know...

[Gardener]

Russian experts quoted by the Kommersant newspaper (in Russian), have been detailing what the wreckage of an plane hit by different missiles should look like.

"If this was a Buk, we should expect to see holes in the fuselage, wings etc. But if it was an air-to-air missile, then we should expect elongated 'cuts' along the body of the plane, as opposed to 'holes'."
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-28363394 (half way down page)

Now earlier in the thread someone said about a long cut along the fuselage which looked like someone took a cutter to it......have searched and can't find the post maybe in the other thread. Anyone>

Edit: There is a picture on this link which shows the cuts along the body.
scroll down can't seem to work out how to get picture here. :)
http://news.sky.com/story/1302864/plane-shot-down-britons-among-298-killed

[Selene]

Was the shoot down an attempt to stop a biowarfare attack on the world?

Jeeeee-sus. I wish this theory (quoted below) didn’t make so much sense. It draws a lot of odd pieces together. Damn.

http://www.rense.com/general96/dutch.html



By Yoichi Shimatsu http://www.rense.com/general96/dutch.html

In these still early hours following the mystery crash of MH17, one must dare to think the unthinkable. An investigator goes to where the evidence leads, and the evidence so far from the crash site indicates a hellish scenario beyond imagining.


Besides the nearly 300 passengers aboard the ill-fated Malaysian Airlines, the plane’s cargo bay was loaded with dozens of infected corpses drained of their blood and countless packets of possibly virus-contaminated blood serum, according to the local eyewitnesses, first-arrivers at the crash site in the Donetsk region along Ukraine-Russia borderlands.


The gruesome finding points irrefutably to Malthusian skulduggery at the highest levels of the World Health Organization (WHO) in sponsoring a covert biological warfare program against the population of Asia. A systematic investigation is now required to uncover the deadliest plot against humanity in modern history. The more predictable outcome, unfortunately, is likely to be a cover-up on an unprecedented scale to protect the globalist elite from scrutiny, legal prosecution and justice.


The blatant violation of international laws for transporting infectious agents indicates a criminal intent in their use at destination. IATA, the watchdog agency for air travel, strictly controls and registration rules in the conveyance of corpses and infectious substances due to the dangers of accidental spillage or deliberate biowarfare. The WHO also imposes tight reporting rules for physical transfer of materials between laboratories, and is therefore now caught in flagrante delicto violating its own rules.


The notable failure by the Israeli-controlled Amsterdam-Schiphol Airport customs clearance, in addition to the WHO and IATA, to warn emergency crews and investigators at the crash site of the epidemic danger proves that the gruesome cargo was transported illegally without registration. The UN and WHO are directly implicated in this covert transfer of biowarfare agents in the cargo hold, accompanying some 100 of their top virus researchers, staff members and NGO supporters in the passenger cabin.


Pity the first responder.


According to rebel commander Igor Girson, who goes by the nom de guerre Strelkov, as quoted by AP, reported that local villagers who rushed to the crash scene found “a significant number of the bodies weren't fresh.” The first-responders also said the corpses had been drained of blood and reeked of decomposition.


Could the cadavers have been air-freighted for simple anatomy classes? That is a freshman question. Paying air-cargo fees to send bodies to Asia is more of a financial loss than sending coals to Newcastle. There is no shortage of fresh John Does on ice from places like the Philippines. Drained of blood and reeking from decay, the corpses can be nothing other than carriers of an infectious disease.


Decomposed cadavers and tainted blood exposed to wind, soil and ground water pose a present and clear threat to public health for millions of people across Ukraine, western Russia and the countries of the Black Sea, including Moldova, Turkey and even as far as Greece. A regional warning needs to be issued, but none is forthcoming, not when the WHO is implicated while its executives, the hidden elitist sponsors of genocide, scramble for the cover of respectability. These reprobates nestled in the medical bureaucracy are far worse than ordinary war criminals.


A hair’s breadth from worst case.


In a worst-case scenario, and the facts thus far point to a hair’s breadth short of worst case, the MH17 crash on the Ukraine-Russian borderlands could have been the start of a real World War Z. Conversely the shoot-down could have been an act of twisted heroism in a desperate last-minute strike to prevent biological warfare on a global scale.


One question logically raised is whether the transport of infected corpses and tainted blood to host countries can be a standard feature of the UNAIDS conferences. Serving as a medical-science reporter with The University of Hong Kong press, I reported extensively on UNAIDS 2001 in that that city and visited the top research university laboratories. I can attest that bodies and blood samples were not obtained as part of the proceedings, and precautionary procedures for the sharing of tiny bits of samples were always followed to a tee.


The WHO was shipping its “zombie” passengers for a criminal purpose, very possibly genocide on a wide scale, perhaps continental. Blood-drained corpses are the stuff of horror movies, but this nightmare arose from one of the busiest airports of “civilized” Europe, and one controlled by ITCS, a security company linked from its inception to the Israeli Mossad.


Mad Scientists with renewed support from above


A reason for concern, early in this investigation, is the fact that The Netherlands, the origin of Flight MH17, is the center for the engineering of weaponized viruses under Ron Fouchier, the closest research associate of the notorious Japanese influenza expert Yoshihiro Kawaoka. The flu-research center at Eramus Medical University in Rotterdam is the sister-laboratory of Kawaoka’s Institute of Infectious Virus Research at the University of Wisconsin, Madison.


The deadly duo’s pseudo-scientific research includes the “perfection” of a Spanish flu virus that killed of 20 million victims worldwide in 1918-19. Kawaoka recently boasted that nothing can stop his newest variant of H5N1, the avian influenza virus. Fouchier’s fanatic disciples, meanwhile, have been weaponizing the H7N9 bird-flu virus that killed more than 40 people in China. (Weaponization involves three objectives, first, to hasten the ability of a virus to spread, that is, to be more contagious; second, to increase its lethality; and third, to develop an antidote available only to the chosen few.)


Kawaoka and Fouchier are not mad scientists working on the fringe, they are accredited researchers with powerful funding support. Two years agi, the twin labs received a massive boost in funding from unidentified sources funneled through department budgets despite vociferous objections from other scientists as to the unstoppable risks.


The patrons of the deadly research includes the chairman of the Eramus University trustee board, Anton Van Rossum, a former executive with Solvay, the Belgium chemical producer that illegally provided sarin-gas components to the Israeli biowarfare program aboard an El Al jetliner that crashed in Amsterdam. The El Al flight hit a crowded apartment block, soon after takeoff from Schiphol Airport, which also is the takeoff point for MH17.


Aboard that El Al flight was a shipment of an RNA-based bioweapon known as mycoplasm, which replicates in water (for example, inside the human lungs) and is suspected to have been used in the two Gulf Wars against Iraq. Bioweapons, Solvay, Israeli, Schiphol, ICTS and Boeing are the common denominators between 1992 El Al crash and the 2014 Malaysia Airlines disaster.


Preventative action at tragic cost


If the world can still believe in “heroes in white armor” or at least bad guys with a grain of common sense under their black hats, a Hollywood-type disaster script emerges from this real-life action flick. Before the zombie cargo escapes Europe to launch World War Z in Asia, top generals with NATO and the Russian command decide that the payload must be stopped at any cost. The passenger casualties tragic as they are, the loss of billions of innocent lives in an unstoppable global pandemic must be prevented.


Indeed, an independent technical analysis of the video clips from the crash site, by a retired CIA crash expert, confirms just such a scenario:


- the metal fuselage of the Boeing-777 shows no traces of deep and long scratch marks from the steel balls delivered in the warhead of a Buk ground-to-air missile;

- The starboard (right-wing) jet engine was badly damaged and caught fire, pointing to a hit by a smaller air-to-air missile launched from a fighter interceptor, flying at about the same altitude;
And

- the midsection was “blown outward and not inward,” indicating a bomb blast inside the cargo bay.


The expert observations, when assembled, shows that a NATO interceptor fired a heat-seeking missile at a jet engine, triggering a fire. The flames were expected to move up the fuel lines inside the wing to set fire to the plane and incinerate all contents, especially the infected corpses and blood packets.

The midair disinfection plan came undone when a bomb hidden inside the cargo bay by the Israelis, timed to explode at Kuala Lumpur International Airport (KLIA) to spread biowarfare agents after all the passengers debarked safely, instead heated up and burst midair. The bomb blast blew out the on-board fire before the cargo was torched. The plane plummeted to the ground with the biowarfare agents and corpses intact.


World’s military commanders dread biowarfare


President Vladimir Putin, out of character, did not react forcefully to the accusations of a Russian role in the shoot-down, indicating military commands of NATO and Russia are on the same page in their determination to stop the Israeli-inspired, WHO-backed bioweapons attack against the world population. The other question now, besides decontamination, is: How to track down and punish the perpetrators and planners who were not aboard MH17?


The Ukrainian side, which lacks any of the intelligence professionalism required for these sorts of code-red operations, bungled their version of events and clumsily imposed a communications blackout over the control tower at Kiev Airport. Preventing global genocide is not a task for Cub Scouts out to protect their petty national interests. Imperial powers are far more astute at the deadly game, which is why they are empires and mere nations.


The threat of World War Z is not over, not when Ukrainians and Russians are being exposed to the unleashed viruses that defy inoculation with vaccines. Trained biowarfare experts in safety suits should collect the evidence and torch the bodies in a mobile plasma incinerator. By the time the clean-up is finished, Eastern Ukraine could end up as uninhabited as the central Congo after WHO teams eliminated all potential carriers of ebola.


Evil never quits


The world’s population has practically zero awareness of the well-hidden strategists who plan and order annihilation of entire regions, as has been happening with the ebola campaign and AIDS in Central Africa, or the Factor VIII HIV-tainted blood propagation to the war-torn Balkans and Japan under the Clinton and Bush administrations. This summer another brazen biowarfare attack was within a razor’s edge of exterminating Malaysians and millions of other Asians.


War on a global scale is no longer fought in trenches, but waged in laboratories, airports, city centers, hospitals, senior homes and schools. It is not called total war, it is simply known as global policy. As a footnote, it should be noted that Professor Kawaoka is a graduate of Kobe University, and that port city is the traditional center for veterans of Unit 731, which unleashed plague and hanta virus against entire cities in World War II. The WHO is the successor to Unit 731, and so WWZ is upon us.


Yoichi Shimatsu is a science writer, who organized public health seminars during the SARS and avian influenza outbreaks in Hong Kong and Bangkok. He was the lead investigative journalist in the 1995 Tokyo subway gassing and subsequent terrorist threats against Japan’s nuclear reactors. His article on the Amsterdam crash of an El Al cargo jet loaded with bioweapons, sarin and war-grade plutonium follows this article.

Keep in mind Jane Burgermeister’s valiant fight against the 2009 WHO-sponsored-vaccine-induced “H5N1 Pandemic”. She was right. (If she had been wrong, we’d now all be dead from that ugly pandemic – which never happened - right?)

Shimatsu’s theory is just twisted enough to make sense. Damn.

Regards,

Selene

[Hervé]

[...]

Indeed, an independent technical analysis of the video clips from the crash site, by a retired CIA crash expert, confirms just such a scenario:

- the metal fuselage of the Boeing-777 shows no traces of deep and long scratch marks from the steel balls delivered in the warhead of a Buk ground-to-air missile;

- The starboard (right-wing) jet engine was badly damaged and caught fire, pointing to a hit by a smaller air-to-air missile launched from a fighter interceptor, flying at about the same altitude;
And

- the midsection was “blown outward and not inward,” indicating a bomb blast inside the cargo bay.

[...]

Added to this:


[...]

The launch is alleged to have been made from Chernukhino. The maximum distance of the launch is 16 kilometres. The aircraft fell between Snezhnoye and Torez. That’s 37 kilometres, which is 20 kilometres more than the maximum possible point at which the plane could have been hit. You know, even a plane with turned-off engines can’t glide like that [distance]. But the trouble is that the aircraft was not whole.

According to the pattern of the spread of fuselage fragments and bodies, the plane was ruptured practically with the first shot. Here it must be mentioned that the high-explosive/fragmentation warhead of the rocket has a mass of approximately 50 kilograms (by the way, Ukrainians have an outdated modification, which is only 40 kilograms).

Overall, that’s not too little; however, it must be understood that it detonates not when it sticks into an airplane, but when it is still at a certain, and fairly significant distance. Moreover, the main strike factor is not the blast wave, but far more significantly – the stream of fragments. These fragments are previously prepared rods (and in the earlier versions – little cubes, if I recall correctly). And yes, for a jet fighter, that, in itself, is more than sufficient.

However, here we are dealing with a huge airliner. Yes, one rocket will rip the casing, cause depressurization, and will kill a lot of passengers. But it will not break up the airliner into pieces. Given certain conditions, the pilots may even be able to land it. And, in fact, there have been precedents (to be provided in future posts). For example – the very same An-28, which is alleged to have been the first victim of a BUK system; even though it was done for, but the crew was able to successfully catapult out. Which, in some way, symbolizes. An An-28, by the way, is far smaller than a Boeing.

[...]

... and the eyewitness on the first video from Gardener's link:



Russian experts quoted by the Kommersant newspaper (in Russian), have been detailing what the wreckage of an plane hit by different missiles should look like.

"If this was a Buk, we should expect to see holes in the fuselage, wings etc. But if it was an air-to-air missile, then we should expect elongated 'cuts' along the body of the plane, as opposed to 'holes'." http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-28363394 (half way down page)

Now earlier in the thread someone said about a long cut along the fuselage which looked like someone took a cutter to it......have searched and can't find the post maybe in the other thread. Anyone?

Edit: There is a picture on this link which shows the cuts along the body.
scroll down can't seem to work out how to get picture here. :)
http://news.sky.com/story/1302864/plane-shot-down-britons-among-298-killed... mentioning multiple blasts/explosions before ground explosion.

... all points to: no bloody BUK surface-air missile but sitting duck to jet fighters and air-to-air rockets!

Curious that a ready answer was provided before anyone asked any questions... "Oh, 't'was a mistake from the ground crew..."

Any wonder why Carlos' Twitter account disappeared?

[sigma6]

Airlines, including Qantas, quit flying over Ukraine airspace months ago

July 18, 2014

“We stopped flying over Ukraine because of safety concerns,” Asiana spokeswoman Lee Hyo-Min said.

Korean Air re-routed its flights 250 kilometres south of Ukraine “due to the political unrest in the region”, an official for the carrier told AFP.

A Qantas spokeswoman said its London to Dubai service used to fly over Ukraine, but the route was changed “several months ago”.

Asked why Malaysia Airlines had not taken similar precautions, Malaysian Prime Minister Najib Razak said international air authorities had deemed the flight path secure.

http://www.news.com.au/travel/travel-updates/airlines-including-qantas-quit-flying-over-ukraine-airspace-months-ago/story-fnizu68q-1226993758257

PS - Question:


Asked why Malaysia Airlines had not taken similar precautions, Malaysian Prime Minister Najib Razak said international air authorities had deemed the flight path secure.

What was MH17 doing in Ukrainian Airspace in the 1st place...:confused:

Ask this man, he may know why?

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/a7/Najib_Razak_2008-08-21.jpg/330px-Najib_Razak_2008-08-21.jpg
6th Prime Minister of Malaysia Incumbent Assumed office 3 April 2009

While your at it, ask him where MH370 is..???

Are you saying this guy might a NWO flunky?... there is something in that picture of him that I find disturbing, not someone I trust... just my first impression.

[Selene]

Any wonder why Carlos' Twitter account disappeared?

Indeed. And I would be interested in knowing who, exactly, asked for it to be closed? A guilty conscience..?. Finger would point in an interesting direction, no? Research needed, readers and good friends here. Please post.

Cheers,

Selene

[jackovesk]

Airlines, including Qantas, quit flying over Ukraine airspace months ago

July 18, 2014

“We stopped flying over Ukraine because of safety concerns,” Asiana spokeswoman Lee Hyo-Min said.

Korean Air re-routed its flights 250 kilometres south of Ukraine “due to the political unrest in the region”, an official for the carrier told AFP.

A Qantas spokeswoman said its London to Dubai service used to fly over Ukraine, but the route was changed “several months ago”.

Asked why Malaysia Airlines had not taken similar precautions, Malaysian Prime Minister Najib Razak said international air authorities had deemed the flight path secure.

http://www.news.com.au/travel/travel-updates/airlines-including-qantas-quit-flying-over-ukraine-airspace-months-ago/story-fnizu68q-1226993758257

PS - Question:


Asked why Malaysia Airlines had not taken similar precautions, Malaysian Prime Minister Najib Razak said international air authorities had deemed the flight path secure.

What was MH17 doing in Ukrainian Airspace in the 1st place...:confused:

Ask this man, he may know why?

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/a7/Najib_Razak_2008-08-21.jpg/330px-Najib_Razak_2008-08-21.jpg
6th Prime Minister of Malaysia Incumbent Assumed office 3 April 2009

While your at it, ask him where MH370 is..???

Are you saying this guy might a NWO flunky?... there is something in that picture of him that I find disturbing, not someone I trust... just my first impression.

Initially I agree...:yes4:

HOWEVER...


I was meant to make a correction to the (Accusation-'above') when I saw this article in the paper...


Malaysian Prime Minister Najib Razak’s step-grandmother killed on Flight MH17

July 20, 2014


THE tragedy of MH17 has hit the highest office in Malaysia with Prime Minister Najib Razak’s step-grandmother perishing on board the Malaysia Airlines passenger jet that crashed in Ukraine.

Hishammuddin Hussein, a cousin of Najib’s, said 83-year-old Siti Amirah was “on the flight”. Siti Amirah was also Hishammuddin’s step-grandmother.

“Pls pray 4 her,” he wrote on his Twitter feed above a photo of her in an Islamic headscarf.

The country’s defence minister’s tweet confirmed an earlier report in the Star newspaper that said Siti Amirah had embarked alone in Amsterdam on board flight MH17 en route to the Indonesian city of Jogjakarta.

She was scheduled to transit at Kuala Lumpur International Airport.

The Boeing 777 passenger jet carrying 298 people came down in flames late on Thursday in cornfields in separatist-controlled eastern Ukraine, with US officials saying it was shot down by a surface-to-air missile.

Siti Amirah, a native of Indonesia, was headed there to celebrate Eid al-Fitr, Islam’s biggest festival, at the end of the Muslim holy month of Ramadan, the Star report quoted a family spokeswoman as saying.

Both Malaysia and Indonesia are Muslim-majority countries.

http://resources1.news.com.au/images/2014/07/19/1226994/582373-fa5d0058-0f0a-11e4-9633-5d2eb5bc90d6.jpg

Personal tragedy ... Malaysia's Prime Minister Najib Razak addresses a press conference on Malaysia Airlines flight MH17. Pic: MANAN VATSYAYANA Source: AFP


“She was a very, very nice lady. A kind-hearted, beautiful woman. She was a homemaker who looked after my grandfather very well. We called her ‘ibu’ (mother),” the family spokeswoman told the newspaper.

She was once married to Mohammad Noah Omar, Najib’s maternal grandfather, as his second wife.

Najib, 60, is the son of Malaysia’s second prime minister Abdul Razak, while Hishammuddin is the son of the country’s third premier Hussein Onn.

The mothers of Hishammuddin and Najib are siblings.

http://www.news.com.au/travel/travel-updates/malaysian-prime-minister-najib-razaks-stepgrandmother-killed-on-flight-mh17/story-fnizu68q-1226994305758

PS - Unless he had no real affection for his step-grandmother and was Ok that she would be an innocent Victim in this tragedy, I stand ((CORRECTED)) and take back my accusation...:noidea: :sorry:

[sigma6]

NOW THIS IS INTERESTING!


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PUltrf8n_vA

Worth a bump... "Chaff" described and shown in video add support to the Spanish Air Traffic Controller report... more evidence of Ukranian Fighters involved

[jackovesk]

Australian Media (MSM) Madness...:crazy:

vs...

Rationale Debate

(MSM) Headline:

"AN ACT OF TERROR: 'Evidence against Russia is now clear"
http://www.news.com.au/travel/travel-updates/mh17-malaysia-airlines-ukraine-says-it-has-proof-russian-rebels-behind-plane-tragedy/story-fnizu68q-1226994996286

(MSM) Headline:

MH17 Malaysia Airlines: Ukraine says it has proof Russian rebels behind plane tragedy
http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/mh17-malaysia-airlines-ukraine-says-it-has-proof-russian-rebels-behind-plane-tragedy/story-fniztvng-1226994996286?nk=4588d4d4af97048f21352318d38cf309

http://resources2.news.com.au/images/2014/07/20/1226995/067866-ea3a3ffe-0f8e-11e4-ae81-95568c4ed36e.jpg
Protesters in Sydney yesterday demanded the Russian President Vladmir Putin not be allowed into Australia for the G20 meeting in November.

Vs...

(Rationale) Headline:

Putin: Thorough investigation of Malaysian airliner tragedy in Ukraine required

July 18, 2014

http://cdn.rt.com/files/news/2a/6b/00/00/putin-ukraine-plane-russia.si.jpg

"The crash of a Malaysian Airlines plane in eastern Ukraine must be investigated thoroughly and objectively", Russian President Putin said in a statement. The tragedy underlines the urgent need for a peaceful resolution of the armed conflict in Ukraine.

Malaysian airliner crashes in E. Ukraine near Russian border, 298 people on board

Malaysia Airlines MH17 plane crash in Ukraine LIVE UPDATES


Putin’s statement came after he contacted Dutch Prime Minister Mark Rutte to express condolences over the deaths of his fellow citizens in the disaster.

The majority of the passengers of the ill-fated flight, which was apparently shot down over the war zone in eastern Ukraine on Thursday, were from the Netherlands.

Earlier the Interstate Aviation Committee (IAC), a Russia-based international body tasked with investigation of all civil aircraft incidents in most former Soviet republics, including Ukraine, called for the formation of an international investigative group under the aegis of the International Civil Aviation Organization (ICAO), a UN body, to investigate the incident.

The IAC said such a group should be handed over MH17 flight recorders, which are currently being recovered in Ukraine’s Donetsk Region.

So far two flight recorders from the plane have been reportedly recovered in the region currently controlled by the militia forces. Some militia officials said they intended to hand them over to Moscow because they didn’t trust Kiev to properly investigate the incident.

The probe into the loss of the Boeing-777 is bound to be a politically loaded one. There was no official confirmation that the plane was shot down rather than crashed from a different cause, but the parties involved are already trading blame for the tragedy.

Both the Ukrainian military and the militias fighting against Kiev denied shooting at the plane and stated that they had no capability to take down an aircraft flying 10,000 meters high.

http://rt.com/files/news/2a/6b/00/00/7.jpg

Some politicians and Western media are pointing fingers at Russia, alleging that it is responsible for the Malaysia Airlines plane’s loss. They claim Moscow could have provided a missile launcher, which the Ukrainian militia used to take down the plane.

Kiev in the past few days accused the Russian military of several direct attacks in its territory, including an airstrike, which militia reported as conducted by the Ukrainian military, and a downing of a Ukrainian military plane, which militia claimed was their doing. The Russian military called the accusations absurd.

Hours after the crash of the Boeing 777 was reported, Kiev published what it called intercepted communications between militia officers and their Russian handler to apparently discuss the take-down of a civilian aircraft by the militia. The militia labeled the recording “an amateurish fake.”

There were almost 300 people on board Malaysia Airlines flight 17, which was flying from Amsterdam to Kuala Lumpur, including 283 passengers and 15 crewmembers. In addition to Dutch travelers and Malaysian crew, there were Australians, Indonesians and citizens of several other countries. Nobody survived the crash.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BT_d5OvDkr4
http://rt.com/news/173744-putin-ukraine-plane-russia/

[Roisin]

Methinks Ukraine doth protest toooo much in their relentless accusatory missiles toward Russia/Putin as the perpetrator of this downed plane .... so much so, it raises a lot of red flags that they themselves may have played a sig. role in that incident.

[ktlight]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=USjmcEEzgIk

"Published on Jul 19, 2014
http://www.undergroundworldnews.com

The proof speaks for itself at this point!````'

This is from DAHBOO7.

[ThePythonicCow]

continued....

https://store.globalresearch.ca/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/logo_store.png

Was Ukraine’s Ministry of Interior behind the Downing of Malaysian Airlines MH17?

http://www.davidicke.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/539px-Buk-M1-2_9A310M1-2.jpg

‘A division of Buk missile systems of the Ukrainian Armed Forces was, according to Pravda deployed to the Donetsk Oblast on July 15, two days before the downing of the Malaysian airlines MH17 flight. The Buk missile system has the capabilities of downing an aircraft flying at 35,000 feet.

While the Pravda report remains to be confirmed, Russian Defense sources confirms the presence of several missile batteries in the Donesk oblast operated by the Ukraine armed forces …

… Of significance, the Prosecutor General of Ukraine Vitaliy Yarema confirmed that the Donesk rebels do not have Buk or S 300 ground to air missiles which could have downed the plane.’

Read more …

http://www.globalresearch.ca/was-ukraines-ministry-of-interior-behind-the-downing-of-malaysian-airlines-mh17/5391909
Trying to figure out what really happened in a heavily propagandized event such as this is always difficult, as either all, or all but one, of the many diverse and conflicting reports are seriously wrong, often deliberately so.

However, that said, the above Global Research (http://www.globalresearch.ca/was-ukraines-ministry-of-interior-behind-the-downing-of-malaysian-airlines-mh17/5391909) report is the most plausible that I've read so far regarding the downing of MH17.

As I read the report, it claims that the Ukraine government in Kiev (but not the "Russian separatists") did have the Buk surface-to-air missile used in the shoot down, did force flight MH17 off course and into range of their missile batteries using a fighter escort, and did know about the downing almost the same time as when the air traffic controllers lost contact.

Moreover, either the Kiev government or the bastards controlling them (some combination of the Bush Crime Cabal and/or the World Zionists, the latter of whom invaded the Gaza strip hours later) did have good reason to "benefit" from a European commercial airliner being shot down over eastern ("separatist") Ukraine using Russian missiles. On the other hand, neither the Russians nor the "separatists" benefited from the shoot down, and neither had the means (control of Buk launchers in eastern Ukraine.)

[ktlight]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZU1qob7UnsQ

"Published on Jul 18, 2014
Its always those whom benefit the most, That are guilty! At this point, All the evidence speaks for itself!"

From DAHBOO7

[MalteseKnight]

Let's not assume that there are not different factions in the Government of the People's Republic of China, and Russia, respectively. These governments are not monolithic. Some of the factions are linked to off world factions. Then again, the whole build up situation may be being contrived in order to divert attention away from a currency rebalancing situation that the IMF could be contemplating in the near future. .....magicians attempt to divert attention while indulging in a sleight of hand....

[Zamolxe]

this video is the smoking gun!

....it tells you that you should never ever watch this guy's videos again.

he is either really unintelligent or deliberately distorting the truth to make it sensational. all he wants is to get more views for his videos because he gets paid for this. I personally think he is very smart and is using all the dirty triks into foolling people - he has 93000 subscribers :confused:

so... first, kenzo is a fashion firm and I searched for the tshirt online, you can easily find it

https://www.google.com/search?q=kenzo+eye+flag+sweater&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=96bLU_PQDYm9ygP27oHAAw&ved=0CAgQ_AUoAQ&biw=1097&bih=546

secondly, the thing about the osce investigators could get to the crash because the media can shows that he knows absolutely nothing about the ukraine conflict and actually any conflict in general.

next, the intact passports... the plane was hit by a radar homing missile, not a heat seaking missile. so the missile could have hit the plane anywhere, instead of the engines.
(the video of the crash shows that there is no smoke in the sky, smoke only appears when the part of the plane containing the fuel hits the ground.)
the plane probably broke into pieces before hitting the ground (debris are spread along 15 km) and you can clearly see that from the imediate crash site footage. there is the part of the crash site that caught fire on ground impact and some other parts of the plane that fell out of the sky were almost intact. so the passports could have either been inside hand-luggage from the area of the plane that broke off, either actually fell from the sky when the plane did break. there are reports of even bodies falling from the sky.

Also... he implies that the event is aimed against russia. So how come the pro-russian rebels that are in control of the area (the ones that found the passports and have been managing the crash site from the first moment) are trying to frame russia by planting passports?? the fact that they are taking them out of the back of a truck is absolute proof? isn't it possible that guys were combing the 15 km area finding different pieces of luggage and handing them over to their commander - and he showed them to the press from his truck? Nothing makes any sense in this video and I actually find it as an offense to his viewers' judgement.

Videos like this are really unproductive. Instead of discussing the real facts and trying to find out what trully happened he is only going to shy away any intelligent people from all alternative media.

[Daphne]

From perfect passports to "coincidental" portents of doom from a flight "passenger" posted on Instagram, this reeks of a
"Wollywood" production.
.(My new name for these productions brought by the Washington/Hollywood.)

[Daphne]

Sorry Zamoixe, I couldn't disagree more. How exactly do you propose that these pristine passports were collected from these dead and dismembered bodies In a muddy and flaming scene? Especially so quickly. These passports are bull****e of the highest order. More likely they confiscated passports from passengers before the flight, or fabricated them beforehand and moved them to the scene. The guy spreading them on the ground knows this IMHO. Who,is he? I would guess that he's Ukraine military and with the help of the cabal they are involved in this crime.

[Zamolxe]

Sorry to disagree, hope I won't offend you. The ukraine military hasn't set foot in that area for months. Did you actually know anything about the conflict before this crash?
Here are photos of the crash site:
You can see the part of the site where the engine (and fuel) fell caught fire.
And you can also see huge pieces of fuselage intact.
Also intact luggage on the ground


2641026411264072640926408

[sigma6]

http://www.intellihub.com/will-matching-malaysian-airlines-777-stored-israeli-hangar-later-used-false-flag-attack/

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UZhSmYAvugU

Bump - more Daboo77 - always a decent well thought out listen... (EYES WIDE OPEN) :)

[sigma6]

Apparently, 100 of the world's leading AIDS researchers were on that flight.

Those involved in Aids research, some are saying that some of the best were lost,and this will have the effect of setting back AIDS research.

If you were a GMO chimp creating ANU (or related structure, ie, that level), the hidden hand.... this would be one of those great hidden hand moments. A group that would likely desire to drop the population and keep control.

Two for the single deal price, is one of their signature moves.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jul/18/aids-conference-says-100-researchers-may-have-been-on-board-crashed-plane

Apparently not, just think about it logistically, 295 passengers, 80 kids, how would you even arranged to have 100 AIDs researchers book the other 100 seats?... to date there is 1 AID researcher of note. I don't think WHO was on this plane was a factor. It was more about just crash landing a plane load of innocents on Russia's doorstep in order to create a MEDIA and LOGISTICAL nightmare for Russia and Eastern Ukraine by a desperate Cabal and a desperately losing Neo Nazi backed Ukrainian govt, that won't get any money unless they kill their brothers. That was clearly laid out in IMF deal.

The ONE Tool that the Cabal has in spades is the Total MEDIA control to spin any story any way they want and a planet of fools waiting to swallow it.

[sigma6]

Hot News Release: NWO Attempted Assassination of Vladimir Putin, But Got the Wrong Plane?
New information reveals that President Valdimir Putin’s plane may have been the target of an attempted assassination! It Looks That Way! (Breaking News Videos)

Thursday, July 17, 2014

http://beforeitsnews.com/contributor/upload/238056/images/Vladimir-Putin_4(1).jpg
He is doing many things right and standing strong for what is moral in this world. Furthermore, he is going against the grain of the New World Order, and we all know they don’t like that!

NWO Attempted Assassination of Vladimir Putin–It Certainly Looks That Way!


RT News reports:

Malaysian Airlines MH17 plane was travelling almost the same route as Russia’s President Vladimir Putin’s jet shortly before the crash that killed 295, Interfax news agency reports citing sources.“I can say that Putin’s plane and the Malaysian Boeing intersected at the same point and the same echelon. That was close to Warsaw on 330-m echelon at the height of 10,100 meters. The presidential jet was there at 16:21 Moscow time and the Malaysian aircraft – 15:44 Moscow time,” a source told the news agency on condition of anonymity.

“The contours of the aircrafts are similar, linear dimensions are also very similar, as for the coloring, at a quite remote distance they are almost identical”, the source added. http://rt.com/news/173672-malaysia-plane-crash-putin/



Is it possible that the Malaysian plane that went down was meant to be his? Did they try to assassinate him? Watch the facts stated in the videos below, because it certainly appears that way!

Check out this breaking video news footage and see for yourself!

RT NEWS LINK: http://rt.com/news/173672-malaysia-plane-crash-putin/ (Please check out for full details)


President Putin’s plane might have been the target for Ukrainian missile – sources
http://rt.com/news/173672-malaysia-pl…

Obama on the phone with Putin as a Jetliner is taken down. Was this a planned assassination fail?

BRICS establish $100bn bank and currency pool to cut out Western dominance
http://rt.com/business/173008-brics-b…

Faced With Western Freeze-Out, BRICS Bank Is a Coup for Russia


PS - Nice ((Alibi)) Barry...:nono:


Obama on the phone with Putin as a Jetliner is taken down. Was this a planned assassination fail?


Ukraine + BRICS = NWO Banksters :(

http://png-1.findicons.com/files/icons/977/rrze/48/flag_red.pngFalse-Flag WARNING..!!!

PSS - Now watch this story UNFOLD

Media War (West vs Russia)

Watch what Putin says when he will be ((FORCED to EXPOSE)) the False-Flag Event..!

This is NOT going to play out the way the NWO/BANKSTERS expect...:nono:


He is doing many things right and standing strong for what is moral in this world. Furthermore, he is going against the grain of the New World Order, and we all know they don’t like that!

Uh huh. What about Putin's Anti-Gay Law and his banning of gays at Sochi's Olympic games? The fact is, Putin is a dictator who marches to his own drum whose own sense of "human rights" is extremely warped when it comes to several important social issues that most of the rest of the civilized world is at least attempting to address and correct.

That was a topic at Freaking News at the time when all of that was going on and here's an image of Putin that I created for that that I entitled "Coming Out".

http://i932.photobucket.com/albums/ad164/A99_x/Coming-Out--114039sm.jpg (http://s932.photobucket.com/user/A99_x/media/Coming-Out--114039sm.jpg.html)


I don't think kids need to know what grown men and women do or why they are parading down a street, wearing women's clothes. Gay or straight, how do we know this wasn't trying to point up Obama's hidden homosexual relationship with his transgender boyfriend... ??? According to Joan Rivers "they all know" and thanks to Joan Rivers now "WE ALL KNOW" (no joke...) What way to come out of the closet...

[sigma6]

Seriously, who in their right mind would fly a plane load of almost 300 people over a war zone where it was common knowledge planes were getting blasted out of the sky?????
Is Malaysian Airlines really this stupid?????

If they built in remote control, they can control what the pilot is seeing on his gauges. I speculated this is what happened with the Korean flight. The pilots were very clear, that they didn't feel the readings were right. It might be harder to notice you are 300 miles off course. But the weirdest part is how the Malaysian President keeps insisting that he didn't see any problem flying over that area. What is up with that???? That sounds like an "insurance/legal statement" i.e. when you start factoring in legal interpretations, it starts forcing everyone to lie essentially based on legal interpretations of fault, since it is all based on commerce, and compensation. Not justice so much.

[sigma6]

it would not be surprising if he ends up tampering and erasing any information in those boxes if he finds anything that indicates that his mercenaries/the Separatists were the ones who shot down that plane..


But why would Russian separatists ever have done that??

Framing Russia, to meet a new-Cold-War global agenda, makes a great deal more logical sense. (Either that, or it was a mistake, with some Ukrainian faction having intended to bring down Putin's plane.)

And given the above between Russia, Ukraine and Eastern Ukraine who would be the motivated and also have the means to do it. Assuming no matter who did it, that there would be a MASSIVE MEDIA BLITZKRIEG blaming it on Russia. This is a page right out of the Syrian Poison Gas Episode. Everything about this is being done almost for MEDIA reasons only. The one place the US has complete control. Anyone not factoring this in is being naive to the point of suspect...

[sigma6]

I am thinking that Isreal MAY be involved with this. We have the double of the missing MALAYSIAN plane stored away 2 months ago (see articles I posted in this thread) and now Israel are attacking Gaza while we all talk about the MALAYSIAN air crash yesterday.

Israeli Crowd Cheers As Missile Hits Gaza Live On CNN

http://www.buzzfeed.com/dorsey/israeli-crowd-cheers-as-missile-hits-gaza-live-on-cnn


Back on the crash - why is nobody talking about the tweets from the air traffic contol regarding fighter jets?


http://www.infowars.com/ukraine-air-traffic-controller-suggests-kiev-military-shot-down-passenger-plane/


Military air traffic controllers in internal communication acknowledged the military was involved, and some military chatter said they did not know where the order to shoot down the plane originated from.

Obviously it happened after a series of errors, since the very same plane was escorted by two Ukrainian fighter jets until 3 minutes before it disappeared from radar.

This is HUGE... and apparently this is verifiable evidence and with additional witnesses. And once it reaches enough mainstream audience. The game is over... This Spanish Air Traffic controller must be in danger for his life. Until this news gets more public...

And I don't think it is obvious it was a series of errors, the same people who have the technology to remote control fly 777s, could intercept their communications, confuse the existing communications and order the shootings from behind the scenes and just fade into the background again.

This thing is orchestrated from top to bottom from Christine Lagardes signal to the media, to remote flying 777s. IMF wants Eastern Ukrainian oil resources, and to put missiles on the Russian border as part of their "peace" initiative. If they have to kill every Eastern Ukrainian to do it, they will do it. Were talking about people who live off of GOLD OIL and DRUGS. People come second. Russia, China Brazil India and South America have nothing to gain by opening a $100,000,000,000 Banking system and then killing their own allies. That is beyond stupid for anyone to suggest that... And from the MEDIA this is definitely a CAMPAIGN of disinfo.

[sigma6]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aKKoKmUtQXE&feature=youtu.be
Rebel fighter describing how Kiev regime tried unsuccessfully to lure the rebels into shooting down an airliner by mistake. Remember to switch on English subtitles.
Put subtitles on.

Great Video EYES WIDE OPEN... This is more evidence that the Separatist KNEW and had IDENTIFIED the Passenger Plane. They knew the Ukrainians were flying behind it. There is NO WAY they would have fired on it... THIS IS THE MOST SIGNIFICANT INFO I have heard to date.

PEOPLE. START TALKING ABOUT THE UKRAINIAN FIGHTERS. GATHER ALL THE INFO ON THAT. Where is the Spanish Air Traffic Controller (before they kill him, he is now a target) According to him there is also more evidence and witnesses to prove that. That will blow EVERYTHING IN THE MSM DOWN THE TOILET.

[Daphne]

staged, staged and more staged. that's all I see in these photos. And the military was following the plane immediately before the plane went down according to another video in the main thread about this. I do not believe any mainstream media report about this incident. Why on EARTH would Putin be so stupid to do this immediately after initiating such a future oriented plan of the BRICS bank? Does he want to alienate his allies immediately? Please....

[sigma6]

When I saw this article a couple of days ago I thought
brace yourself.........It could be coincidence.....
VexU17zRPZo
Published on 15 Jul 2014


The emerging economies signed a long-anticipated document to create a $100
billion BRICS Development Bank. The institution will counter the influence of
Western lending firms as well as the dollar. DETAILS: http://on.rt.com/afyr6y

You don't suppose this would have anything to do with it do you? Would people try and kill other people over money? Would the US really be concerned about another organization cutting them out of billions of dollars of interest/taxes by not doing business in US dollars? Could that be why the US is desperately trying to control the world's economy by forcing sanctions on Russia? Would they willing infiltrate the Neo Nazi Ukrainian Government they already admit pumping 5 billion into. To shoot down a passenger plane with the Promise of a MASSIVE MEDIA BLITZ campaign to blame it on the Russians?

[sigma6]

This is a really "strange" story....


Rebel leader gives bizarre account of plane crash (http://www.montereyherald.com/world/ci_26173524/rebel-suggests-malaysia-plane-victims-long-dead)
A top pro-Russia rebel commander in eastern Ukraine has given a bizarre version of events surrounding the Malaysian jetliner crash — suggesting many of the victims may have died days before the plane took off.
The pro-rebel website Russkaya Vesna on Friday quoted Igor Girkin as saying he was told by people at the crash site that "a significant number of the bodies weren't fresh," adding that he was told they were drained of blood and reeked of decomposition.
Girkin said "Ukrainian authorities are capable of any baseness."
He claimed that a large amount of blood serum and medications were found in the wreckage.


I was reading that too. That is JUST TOO WEIRD TO BE MADE UP...
Whao! I just had a thought, this is totally my own speculation... But given my clear belief this is the US/Israeil/Vatican/Banking Cartel (whatever you want to call them we all know the deal...) backing the Neo Nazi Ukrainian Government. Assuming this was all planned, and if Israel was involved with this. And there was a plane switch and a planned remote control crash landing or shoot down.

And if this story is true about the bodies, it WOULD explain a lot of things, the planners WOULD KNOW the Eastern Ukrainians would be first on site. They would know they would "contaminate" the site.

What IF... they spiked all the bodies with a deadly disease? I just thought of this out of my wildest speculations, and I don't know if there is any proof to back this up. But if they did and it spreads a contagion amongst the East Ukrainians, just enough to kill some off before they get it under control. WE KNOW THIS IS A DIRTY WAR. WHOEVER IS BEHIND IT. And these tactics are not above them... Wouldn't this be right down the US/CIA/Israeli black op alley?

¤=[Post Update]=¤


On difficulty in using the system:


US representative to the UN, Samantha Power, told an emergency session of the Security Council the Malaysia Airlines jet was likely shot down by a SA-11 Buk missile.
"Because of the technical complexity of the SA-11, it is unlikely that the separatists could effectively operate the system without assistance from knowledgeable personnel," she said.
"Thus we cannot rule out technical assistance from Russian personnel in operating the systems.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-07-19/ukraine-government-says-missile-expert-arrested-near-border/5608744


Or the US or Israelis

[Zamolxe]

Did I say that Putin shot down the plane?

We were discussing the video from DHABOO7 and what he's implying. The quality of his reporting.
Are you saying that the images are all fake and the plane did not break up in multiple pieces? And that it all burned up? You seem really convinced so please tell me what are you basing these assumptions on?

The same images have been shown by the russian reporters from the russian state news agency that were on scene... so I'm not making this up, I can't understand why you insist in contradicting facts.

So you're telling me that the live feed from the crash site on Putin's news channel was fake and the parts of the wreckage behind the reporters was CGI paid by Putin to incriminate him? This is getting silly.

How do you know that the entire plane crashed in one place (100-200 m radius) and it all burned up? Because that's what you keep on afirming.

This is not the usual crash site, 30-50 meters long, everything burning up. Debree was scattered around an area with a 15 km radius.

Not even russian biased news isn't reporting this because it's absolute nonsense but I should listen to DHABOOBOO7 because... why?

I repeat, we're not discussing who shot the plane down or if Ukrainian military jets were tailing the airliner, just the fact that this whole video is utter sensationalst BS just to score some more views for his channel. I was actually shocked that this much nonsense can fly with 92000 subscribers.

Also on RT:

_nhQL7JMhkc

EDIT: you seem to be confused so I think I should actually explain what RT is...

"RT, previously known as Russia Today, is an international multilingual Russian-based television network which presents round-the-clock news bulletins, documentaries, talk shows, and debates, as well as sports news and cultural programs on Russia aimed at the overseas news market."

It has also replaced Ria Novosti at the end of last year:
http://rt.com/news/ria-novosti-overhaul-putin-960/

It is in no way related to "MSM" and it has been clearly one sided regarding this crash, so the images in the video aren't in any possible way intended to incriminate Putin.
Just to be clear

[sigma6]

Update from Davids site...

Spanish Air Controller @ Kiev Borispol Airport: Ukraine Military Shot Down Malaysian Boeing
new Friday 18th July 2014 at 18:08 By david-icke


FLASH UPDATE: Industry Outlet Confirms Carlos (@spainbuca) as ATC at Borispol in Kiev
http://www.davidicke.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/false-flag-warning.jpg
‘There was an unexplained change of course of the Malaysian MH17 flight which took the aircraft
directly over the Eastern Ukraine warzone.

The Spanish air controller confirms a conflict between the Ministry of Defense and the Ministry of
the Interior intimating that the order concerning the downing of the aircraft came from the Ministry
of the Interior, which is dominated by Svoboda and Right Sector.

He also said that the MH17 flight was escorted by Ukrainian fighter jets minutes before it was downed.
It is worth noting that the presence of the Ukraine fighter jets reported by the Spanish air traffic
controller was confirmed by eyewitness reports in the Donetsk region:

“eyewitnesses in the Donetsk region saw Ukrainian warplanes near the passenger jet. They say they
heard sounds of powerful blasts and saw a Ukraine warplane shortly before the crash. (ITAR Tass)’

Read more: Spanish Air Controller @ Kiev Borispol Airport: Ukraine Military Shot Down Boeing
http://slavyangrad.wordpress.com/2014/07/18/spanish-air-controller-kiev-borispol-airport-ukraine-military-shot-down-boeing-mh17/

==========================================================

http://www.eturbonews.com/themes/etn_v2/images/logo.jpg
Ukraine air traffic controller suggests Kiev military shot down passenger plane

http://www.davidicke.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/My11.jpg

‘This Kiev air traffic controller is a citizen of Spain and was working in the Ukraine. He was
taken off duty as a civil air-traffic controller along with other foreigners immediately after a
Malaysia Airlines passenger aircraft was shot down over the Eastern Ukraine killing 295
passengers and crew on board.

The air traffic controller suggested in a private evaluation and basing it on military sources
in Kiev, that the Ukrainian military was behind this shoot down. Radar records were
immediately confiscated after it became clear a passenger jet was shot down.’

Read more …

http://www.eturbonews.com/48079/ukraine-air-traffic-controller-suggests-kiev-military-shot-down-
==========================================================

http://s3.reutersmedia.net/resources_v2/images/masthead-logo.gif
Malaysia Airlines says requested higher flight plan
‘Malaysia Airlines filed a flight plan requesting to fly at 35,000 feet throughout
Ukraine airspace but was instructed by Ukraine air traffic control to fly at 33,000
feet upon entry, it said in a statement late on Friday.

“MH17 filed a flight plan requesting to fly at 35,000 feet throughout Ukrainian
airspace. This is close to the ‘optimum’ altitude,” the airline said.’
"However, an aircraft's altitude in flight is determined by air traffic control on the
ground. Upon entering Ukrainian airspace, MH17 was instructed by Ukrainian air traffic control to fly at 33,000 feet."
Malaysian Airlines flight MH17 from Amsterdam to Kuala Lumpur was downed in
Ukraine on Thursday.

(Reporting by Al-Zaquan Amer Hamzah; Editing by Robert Birsel)

Read more …
http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/07/18/us-ukraine-crisis-flightplan-idUSKBN0FN1HR20140718

There is no way out for Neo Nazis on this information. What are they doing confiscating RADAR data? kicking out foreigner Air Traffic Controllers. It sounded like one faction had the inside news to do it, the other not having the inside news (i.e. that the US already had a propaganda campaign in place) was against it, and rightly so... So we may be able to elucidate which faction is the contact point for CIA operatives.

[sigma6]

continued....
https://store.globalresearch.ca/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/logo_store.png
Was Ukraine’s Ministry of Interior behind the Downing of Malaysian Airlines MH17?
http://www.davidicke.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/539px-Buk-M1-2_9A310M1-2.jpg

‘A division of Buk missile systems of the Ukrainian Armed Forces was, according to Pravda deployed
to the Donetsk Oblast on July 15, two days before the downing of the Malaysian airlines MH17 flight.
The Buk missile system has the capabilities of downing an aircraft flying at 35,000 feet.
While the Pravda report remains to be confirmed, Russian Defense sources confirms the presence of
several missile batteries in the Donesk oblast operated by the Ukraine armed forces …
… Of significance, the Prosecutor General of Ukraine Vitaliy Yarema confirmed that the Donesk rebels
do not have Buk or S 300 ground to air missiles which could have downed the plane.’
Read more …

http://www.globalresearch.ca/was-ukraines-ministry-of-interior-behind-the-downing-of-malaysian-airlines-mh17/5391909
========================================================
Ukrainian Army with Surface to Air missiles near Donetsk on July 5th (see 0:50)
‘Here is a video from a few days ago showing UKR Army in the region in possession of SAM BUK.
They have been going crazy suggesting that Russian planes have crossed the border in the recent
days and were working hard to shoot it down – a fact. ‘

U2eGNPJlkMo

John McCain Says Ukraine Does Not Have Buk Missile Systems (See above post) and Unveils True
Motive For Shooting MH-17 To Escalate War With Russia
-V53xoum3AM

Are they wagging the dog?
0XOnCckiYlk

‘If this was a mid-air missile strike, quick question: where is the smoke? Any
smoke? From the missile? From the strike? From the plane? Left in the air?
Anything…?

Also, what is this guy doing walking around the fresh crash site with a handful of
intact, unscathed passports that look brand spanking new? That video was only
played on loop for B roll on all major news networks repeatedly all day…

Or here’s a conspiracy theory for you: What if the missing Malaysian plane from
march (MH370) somehow is the one that was “shot down” over Ukraine today in
some Jerry Bruckheimeresque 24-hour news cycle stage show to dazzle the masses
into believing the official story?’

Read more …
http://truthstreammedia.com/are-they-wagging-the-dog/
http://www.davidicke.com/headlines/

Ewww McCain, what a lying piece of ****! playing "normal conversation" with Sassoon's homosexual son. mmmm... why I don't watch television.

[Hervé]

[...]

.... Where is the Spanish Air Traffic Controller (before they kill him, he is now a target) According to him there is also more evidence and witnesses to prove that. That will blow EVERYTHING IN THE MSM DOWN THE TOILET.

They are already busy discrediting him as a non-existent entity...

However, what remains are the confiscated Kiev air-control radar and communication data... apparently one faction of the "Ukrainian official" military got their hands on them and not releasing them for international investigation... one wonders why... since it would reveal why MH-0017 got to be rerouted in a corridor 300 miles north of its approved flight plan.

[Roisin]

Malaysian Airlines MH370 and MH17. A Criminologist Questions: What are the Probabilities? Is it a Mere Coincidence?
http://www.globalresearch.ca/malaysian-airlines-mh370-and-mh17-a-criminologist-questions-what-are-the-probabilities-is-it-a-mere-coincidence/5392265


Four months after the vanishing of Malaysia Airlines flight 370, Malaysian Airlines flight 17 was brought down by a surface-to-air missile.

Western Mainstream Media (MSM) hastened–on the basis of very thin evidence joined with the refusal to even mention other evidence–to attribute blame to the “appropriate” party, which in the case of flight 17 happens to be Vladimir Putin.

Careful observers of the mainstream media processes are well aware that this sort of thing is what we are to expect, and undoubtedly helps explain the very low level of trust people place in MSM institutions.

Here, of course with the leave of figures such as Anderson Cooper and Barack Obama, we are going to do some of our own thinking about, and analysis of, certain key pieces of evidence. In so doing, we should not be surprised if we arrive at conclusions different from that which our Ruling Class masters would have us believe.

First, let’s present the currently prevailing theory as to what happened. K.T. McFarland, national security analyst at Fox, presents “three possible scenarios” pertaining to the attribution of responsibility.

Of the three “possible” scenarios McFarland presents (and one wonders exactly what scenarios are supposed to be impossible), McFarland (and many others) appears to favor the prospect that pro-Russian rebel separatists are responsible. The theory is that motive and opportunity coincide in that group better than they do with respect to other potential malfeasants.

Maybe the separatists are responsible. But the case is hardly closed, and plenty of evidence that people such as McFarland choose to ignore should be considered as objectively as possible.

First, similar to Malaysia Airlines flight 370, there is evidence that contact with Malaysia Airlines flight 17 was lost in advance of the wayward event. Next, and once more like flight 370, we have evidence that the pilot of Flight 17 actually diverted–purportedly on the basis of a vague sense of being “uncomfortable”–the craft into the dangerous warzone region where it was shot down.

Next, reflect that, on the same day, 55 planes flew over Donetsk just as flight 17 did and that these flight patterns have been in place for some time.

The Normal MH17 Flight Path vs. the Warzone flight path over Donesk Oblast on July 17th

https://slavyangrad.files.wordpress.com/2014/07/ingograph.gif?w=600

And here is evidence reported by Zero Hedge that may be very important:

“While there are various questions that have already emerged from what was supposed to be Ukraine’s “slam dunk” proof confirming Russian rebel involvement in today’s MH-17 tragedy, perhaps one just as gaping question emerges when one looks at what is clearly an outlier flight path in today’s final, and tragic, departure of the Malaysia Airlines Boeing 777.

Perhaps the best visualization of what the issue is, comes from Vagelis Karmiros who has collated all the recent MH-17 flight paths as tracked by Flightaware and shows that while all ten most recent paths pass safely well south of the Donetsk region, and cross the zone above the Sea of Azov, it was only today’s tragic flight that passed straight overhead Donetsk.”

http://www.zerohedge.com/sites/default/files/images/user5/imageroot/2014/07/MH%2017%20flight%20paths_0.png


The Karmiros evidence could of course be wrong, but can we prove that it is wrong now, and can we be 100% confident that what the MSM tells us is true?

And, if it’s wrong, why hasn’t the Karmiros evidence been refuted? The answer to that is that it’s probably because it hasn’t received any discussion. Why not?

Next, here are a few other curious tidbits. The flight 17 crash shares an anniversary with the demise of TWA 800, which AT’s own Jack Cashill has compellingly argued was, in fact, brought down by a missile on July 17, 1996 and subsequently covered up by the US government. And, the maiden flight of flight 17 occurred in 1997 on the date of, you guessed it, July 17.

So “17s” are everywhere. To be sure, though, each of the items in the last paragraph is easily ranged under the heading “coincidence.”

But before we do that, there is one more piece of evidence to consider. Upon having done so, we will synthesize all of the evidence by thinking in terms of probabilities.

There is evidence at YouTube that seems to indicate that CNN recently used footage of a helicopter downing in Syria and represented it as depicting the downing of a helicopter, by pro-Russian forces, in the Ukraine (go to 2:39 for a photo comparison).

Now to the probabilistic summary.

Reasoning with probabilities is notoriously tricky, so we have to proceed carefully. Fortunately, a simple coin flip analogy can be employed. If you flip a fair 50/50 coin twice, four possible sequences can occur, and each has an equal likelihood of occurring {HH, HT, TH, TT}. The equal likelihood of the possible sequences flows from the standard supposition that the coin flips are independent of one another, which is simply to say that an H on flip 1 says nothing about whether flip 2 will produce an H or a T.

The analogy with MH 17 is as follows. If five months ago (before the vanishing of MH 370) you had contemplated the likelihood that the next two major airline disasters to receive massive global coverage would each involve Malaysia Airlines, you would have been justified in concluding that the likelihood was very low indeed. By analogy, it would be like specifying only an {H, H} sequence as the outcome ahead of time (a {T, T} sequence would represent the same airline as having been involved, but not Malaysia Airlines).

Now what the Western mainstream media are implicitly arguing is that MH 370 and MH 17 have no real link and are only connected with massive airline disasters in recent months by chance; they’re saying that it could just as well have been any two flights so linked (by analogy, {H, H} or {H, T} or {T, H} or {T, T}). If this argument is valid, nothing at all should be made at all of the fact that Malaysia Airlines was involved in both instances, since all possible sequences are accounted for and no sequence is much more likely than any other.

And yet, the evidence presented in this article suggests that MH 370 and MH 17 are linked in ways that might not be due to chance. Both MH 370 and MH 17 appear to have lost communicative contact, and both appear to have veered off course on very unusual routes. How many aircraft of other airlines have done so in recent months, never mind how many of the 55 aircraft over Donetsk did so on July 17? How many aircraft other than MH 17 had their inaugural voyage on the date of July 17?

These considerations suggest that, in fact, in the cases of MH 370 and MH 17 we might not be dealing with a “fair coin.”

In turn, the following very reasonable question presents itself: was Malaysia Airlines in particular targeted on July 17, and, if so, what ragtag rebel would have even been in a position to do that (especially given the route alteration, if true), and, if so, how did they accomplish it?

One suspects that the MSM will completely ignore these considerations and will likely coalesce, for several reasons, around an account that blames the episode on an accidental discharge that Putin can nonetheless be blamed for given the hostilities in the region.

However that may be, one thing is almost certainly true: the likelihood that Western MSM would in any way, shape, or form discuss evidence implicating U.S. aligned interests in the demise of MH 17 is virtually nil, no matter how compelling such evidence might be.

Dr. Jason Kissner is Associate Professor of Criminology at California State University. Dr. Kissner’s research on gangs and self-control has appeared in academic journals. His current empirical research interests include active shootings. You can reach him at crimprof2010@hotmail.com.

[Tesseract]

[...]

.... Where is the Spanish Air Traffic Controller (before they kill him, he is now a target) According to him there is also more evidence and witnesses to prove that. That will blow EVERYTHING IN THE MSM DOWN THE TOILET.

They are already busy discrediting him as a non-existent entity...

However, what remains are the confiscated Kiev air-control radar and communication data... apparently one faction of the "Ukrainian official" military got their hands on them and not releasing them for international investigation... one wonders why... since it would reveal why MH-0017 got to be rerouted in a corridor 300 miles north of its approved flight plan.

The claim was that he was deported from Ukraine. Hard to believe they would do that if he had the information that is claimed.

[Observer1964]

You don't suppose this would have anything to do with it do you? Would people try and kill other people over money? Would the US really be concerned about another organization cutting them out of billions of dollars of interest/taxes by not doing business in US dollars? Could that be why the US is desperately trying to control the world's economy by forcing sanctions on Russia? Would they willing infiltrate the Neo Nazi Ukrainian Government they already admit pumping 5 billion into. To shoot down a passenger plane with the Promise of a MASSIVE MEDIA BLITZ campaign to blame it on the Russians?

Offfcoouuurrrssse not, what a silly idea...

[sigma6]

...

"shot down by missile!"


well... Since it's been trumpeted all around on all sorts of media, the appropriate response should be to spike one's coffee or tea with a double dose of discernment... Since, as a matter of fact, such a claim is not backed up by any evidence but hearsay.

What is not trumpeted around are the jet fighters seen from ground and on the control tower radar screens... With all control tower personnel removed and replaced while their tweets were deleted.

Then there are these contradicting facts: Pilot found harnessed to his seat at the crash site but malaysian airlines reports no distress calls received...

Then there is that report about those bloodless bodies (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?73055-malaysian-plane-crashes-with-295-on-board-ukrainian-adviser-claims-the-plane-was-shot-down&p=854982&viewfull=1#post854982)... I must say that, that was my very reaction when seeing those bodies on the live russian live stream: No blood and the bodies looked like inflatable dolls with "porcelain" skin. That is, something's not right at that site.

So here is a comment which compiles some of those pegs that don't fit anywhere:


reader comment (http://www.sott.net/article/282125-malaysian-airlines-flight-mh17-downed-over-warzone-ukraine-who-was-behind-it-cui-bono#comment107533)

http://www.sott.net/avatar/image/625/thumb/_eyes2.jpg (http://www.sott.net/user/6057-saj) by: saj (http://www.sott.net/user/6057-saj)

someone deliberately rerouted this plane [link (http://www.businessinsider.com/mh17-map-2014-7)] "a source in russia's federal air traffic agency rosaviatsia has said that three days ago ukraine’s national security and defense council closed the airspace over eastern ukraine because of the so-called “anti-terrorist operation” that kiev conducts in the region." [link (http://rt.com/news/173652-fights-avoid-ukrain-malaysian/)]

2 ukrainian fighters seen following malaysian jet minutes before crash [link (http://en.itar-tass.com/russia/741248)] "two ukrainian fighters were following the passenger boeing-777 of malaysian airlines several minutes before the crash, russia’s television channel one said on friday, citing a tweet made a spanish air traffic controller of kiev’s airport borispol.

According to the spanish air traffic controller, two ukrainian fighters had been seen near the malaysian jet three minutes before it disappeared from radars.

This information is confirmed by eyewitnesses in the donetsk region who saw ukrainian warplanes near the passenger jet. They say they heard sounds of powerful blasts and saw a ukraine warplane shortly before the crash."

crashed boeing dispatcher: Two ukrainian military jets near jet before it crashed [link (http://actualidad.rt.com/actualidad/view/134299-controlador-trafico-aereo-buelo-mh17-escoltado-cazas-ucranianos)]

ukraine air traffic controller suggests kiev military shot down passenger plane [link (http://www.eturbonews.com/48079/ukraine-air-traffic-controller-suggests-kiev-military-shot-down-)]
"etn received information from an air traffic controller in kiev on malaysia airlines flight mh17....

The air traffic controller suggested in a private evaluation and basing it on military sources in kiev, that the ukrainian military was behind this shoot down. Radar records were immediately confiscated after it became clear a passenger jet was shot down.
Military air traffic controllers in internal communication acknowledged the military was involved, and some military chatter said they did not know where the order to shoot down the plane originated from.

Obviously it happened after a series of errors, since the very same plane was escorted by two ukrainian fighter jets until 3 minutes before it disappeared from radar.

Radar screen shots also show an unexplained change of course of the malaysian boeing. The change of course took the aircraft directly over the eastern ukraine conflict region." [...]

reports that putin flew similar route as mh17, presidential airport says 'hasn't overflown ukraine for long time' [link (http://rt.com/news/173672-malaysia-plane-crash-putin/)]

"i can say that putin’s plane and the malaysian boeing intersected at the same point and the same echelon. That was close to warsaw on 330-m echelon at the height of 10,100 meters. The presidential jet was there at 16:21 moscow time and the malaysian aircraft - 15:44 moscow time,” a source told the news agency on condition of anonymity.

"the contours of the aircrafts are similar, linear dimensions are also very similar, as for the coloring, at a quite remote distance they are almost identical", the source added" [...]

russian radars record active operation of ukrainian air defense [link (http://english.pravda.ru/news/russia/18-07-2014/128081-ukrainian_air_defense_boeing-0/)]

ukrainian buk battery radar was operational when malaysian plane downed - moscow [link (http://rt.com/news/173784-ukraine-plane-malaysian-russia/)]

ukraine’s anti-aircraft missile system dispatched to donetsk wednesday [link (http://en.itar-tass.com/world/741173)]

igor gunmen: Part of the boeing people died a few days before the disaster [link (http://rusvesna.su/news/1405676334)]
"according to the people who collected the bodies, most of corpses -" stale "- people have died and several days ago. For complete accuracy of this information can not vouch - of course, you need forensic conclusion.. Not all people on the plane were dead before the fall.

Secondly, the plane was discovered a large quantity of drugs, blood serum and other things, which is not typical for conventional liner. It seems that there was a medical special-load.

Third, no not insisting on anything (yet). Literally just now talked to two people personally collected the bodies immediately after the fall (both - of shakhtersk and arrived at the scene in less than half an hour after the accident). With their words and write. They stressed that many corpses were "entirely bloodless" - as if the blood curled long before the disaster. Also noted the strongest and putrid smell, marked by many locals - this odor in any weather for half an hour could not be formed, and the weather was overcast yesterday, not too hot."

prominent hiv researcher joep lange was among the victims of flight mh17 [link (http://www.vox.com/2014/7/17/5914093/prominent-hiv-researcher-dead-on-malaysia-airlines-flight-mh17-aids-2014)]

crash claims 100 top aids researchers heading to melbourne [link (http://www.smh.com.au/national/crash-claims-top-aids-researchers-heading-to-melbourne-20140718-zuaw3.html)]

overflights over the south-east suspended jul 15 2014 [link (http://translate.yandex.net/tr-url/ru-en.en/voicesevas.ru/news/yugo-vostok/2862-polety-aviacii-hunty-nad-yugo-vostokom-priostanovleny.html)]

malaysia strongly condemns israeli aggression in gaza [link (http://www.thesundaily.my/news/1115491)]

flashback - are the israelis planning another false flag using the missing boeing 777? [link (http://www.bollyn.com/are-the-israelis-planning-another-9-11-using-the-missing-777/)]

(perfectly timed) strong empirical evidence israel shot down plane [link (http://www.jimstonefreelance.com/)]

plane shoot down: Approximately 14:15 utc. Israeli assault on gaza: 14:00 utc. See a connection there? And when you consider the fact that it took time to confirm the downing, the two times actually match even more closely. Israel's assault on gaza is viewed badly by the world community, what better way to bury it in the news than a plane shoot down, complete with the threat of a war with russia?

Israel uses schipol airport for drug and gun running and moving their agents in and out of europe as well as false flags. [link (http://www.sott.net/article/202285-underwear-bomber-redux-was-mutallab-an-israeli-secret-weapon)]

(laying the groundwork) mh-17: An exercise in foregone conclusions? [link (http://pennyforyourthoughts2.blogspot.ca/2014/07/mh-17-exercise-in-foregone-conclusions.html)] [link (http://pennyforyourthoughts2.blogspot.ca/2014/07/breaking-malaysian-passenger-plane.html)]
"this past week we have been treated to a narrative that has informed us all that the anti-fascist rebels allegedly have the means to take down airplanes at high altitudes. Alone or with the help of their claimed interchangeable partner- russia. This narrative, repeated and reinforced has never been substantiated.... No evidence given by the kiev fascists. Just unsubstantiated claims. Or as i am proposing the creation of a narrative.

That goes something like this.........

Anti fascists or russia, interchangeable, for this narrative.( interchangeable for all propaganda purposes according to kiev, the obama administration, nato and nato media etc.???)

getting back to the narrative being created all this week

*anti fascists fighters /rebels aided by russia have been shooting down planes flying at high altitude.

*therefore these same groups/partners shot down the malaysian plane" [...]

fri, 18 jul 2014 13:25 cdt




bump... Amazing summarization data ... It will be interesting to see how many of these links survive over the coming days and weeks...

[KiwiElf]

MH17 Working Group Established
Saturday, July 19th, 2014
Posted by Gordon Duff

http://www.veteranstoday.com/2014/07/19/mh17-working-group-established/

So Far, the Winner is ICTS and Schipol Airport, “Crotch Bomber” Redux

… by Gordon Duff and Jim Dean, VT Editors
with a cast of about a dozen

[ Note: Ukrainian Prosecutor-General Vitaly Yarema told Ukrainian Pravda newspaper on Friday, "Militias in the self-proclaimed Donetsk and Luhansk people’s republics do not have Ukrainian air defense missile systems Buk and S-300 at their disposal"..."After the passenger airliner was downed, the military reported to the president that terrorists do not have our air defense missile systems Buk and S-300,” the general prosecutor said. “These weapons were not seized.”

"The Russians did it" story has crashed and burned. The media overkill..."killed it", all of them playing off the same talking points notes, no one even bothering to ask the most basic investigative journalist questions like "Show me the evidence you have."

Who do you know, what country, that has a track record of pulling that kind of media and sock puppet politician coordination off whenever they want to, having them all singing like they are in a choir? ]

We have found one engine damaged. It initially looked like an air to air missile hit it. We see signs of fire but there is a question as to whether damage is consistent with a shape charge from an air to air missile. Input from qualified folks welcomed as always.

The BUK is off the table. We have reviewed it extensively and an S300 is capable but not a BUK. It “says” it will do it but experts have ruled otherwise. We have tons of supporting material already.

Additionally, were a ground launched missile used, we would have had sat photos already. If we get them later, it will mean they have been cooked.

From Rense.com, sent in by Jeff Rense:

Human intel on the ground has given us much. We are taking our time and want more. The YouTube is very telling, engine on fire. However, the wreckage indicates bomb thus far. We, however, aren’t interested in guessing ourselves to death. We leave that to the slime media.

We have issues involving one Israeli jet from Azerbaijan. We have issues about ICTS in Schipol. We have issues about air traffic controllers in Kiev. We have issues about SU 27s trailing the plane. We have issues about “foreign” advisors in Kiev with the military who moved on the airport tower.

We are also looking for an AWAC in the area. The bomb or whatever would have needed an AWAC or an F15 with advanced radar to time the crash.

Thus far the Putin assassination story that RT ran seems “off.” We can do nothing with it so we won’t deal with it now.

What can’t be ignored is the manipulated media and the politicians who are making asses of themselves. They are pointing a gun right at Israel. The smell is overwhelming. Next, someone will ask how many Jews were onboard. As the plane was leaving the Netherlands for a medical conference, I would think the number to be substantial, 20 or more. Is this a fair way to look at this? Perhaps that should be discussed as well.

And who would destroy two fully packed airliners of a country they were angry with, to make an example? Is this enough to go on? In reality, it is more powerful, following a cover up, than any other evidence. Everything else can be faked. The “stupidity” is for real. Yes, they are that stupid.

The dead want vengeance - and we aim to please


Short URL: http://www.veteranstoday.com/?p=311873

[sigma6]

oops, duplicate... browser was malfunctioning

[Roisin]

The following info is from http://www.globalresearch.ca/flight-mh17-conjures-mh370-exposing-western-deception-was-it-a-staged-event/5392222

During the wave of MH370 reports in March, I outlined the many systems in place used to track the whereabouts of a Boeing 777 at all times, making the false reports by satellites very questionable:

“Rolls Royce and Malaysian Airlines are said to have a partnership that requires the engine to transmit live data to its global engine health monitoring center in Derby, UK every 30 minutes. Investigators are said to have used the ACARS information uploaded to the engine maker.”

Additionally, we learned about the controversial on board device known as the Boeing Uninterruptible Autopilot that has supposedly been equipped in all Boeing planes since 1995, according to Field McConnell, a retired 35 year Delta pilot,

“This information was apparently not released until March of 2007, following a subsequent lawsuit by McConnell. The modification was reported to the FAA, NTSB and ALPA ( airline pilots association). According to McConnell’s documents, Boeing is said to have stated that by end of 2009 all Boeing planes would be fitted with the BUAP - making them impossible to manually hijack within the plane but susceptible to remote control by the military, according the flight veteran.”

So what could account for the lapse in radar systems just before MH17 crashed?

"According to a YouTube report by POTRBLOG, there was evidence that military aircraft had been deployed in the area, which would reveal what could have provided the radar coverage, corroborating other accounts by Spanish air traffic control, that fighter jets were nearby the passenger plane before it was downed.

There are other pressing questions that need to be answered, as it has been confirmed that Ukrainian air controllers requested that MH17 lower its altitude, add to the fact that a passenger jet was apparently flying through a war-zone.

The report details a substance used by military planes to obscure an aircraft from radar and radar guided missiles called ‘Chaff’…"


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PUltrf8n_vA

[SilentFeathers]

Seriously, who in their right mind would fly a plane load of almost 300 people over a war zone where it was common knowledge planes were getting blasted out of the sky?????
Is Malaysian Airlines really this stupid?????

If they built in remote control, they can control what the pilot is seeing on his gauges. I speculated this is what happened with the Korean flight. The pilots were very clear, that they didn't feel the readings were right. It might be harder to notice you are 300 miles off course. But the weirdest part is how the Malaysian President keeps insisting that he didn't see any problem flying over that area. What is up with that???? That is what I can an "insurance legal statement" i.e. when you start factoring in legal interpretations, it starts forcing everyone to lie essentially based on legal interpretations of fault, since it is all based on commerce, and compensation. Not justice so much.

I was waiting for someone to pick up on this....

It has been reported that the pilot felt "nervous" and changed his flight path, not to avoid a war zone known for shoot downs, but to fly right over the danger zone, makes no sense. It has been reported witnesses seen fighter jets escorting this jet TO THE WAR ZONE/TURKEY SHOOT. It has been reported that an air traffic controller said Ukraine shot the jet down.

Although we have no way of verifying this as truth or not, it has been reported regardless, part of the narrative.....a possibility.

The obvious-the media blitz......to give Putin a black eye and slow his advancement in to eastern Ukraine, to sway public opinion more to the negative about Russia/Putin. To further create the boogey man mentality towards Vlad Putin.

The "in your face" obvious that very few notice as the smoking gun..........Malaysia has lost 2 777's in a span of about 5 months. Out of all the carriers/brands, why Malaysia Air?????????????? How many times have we heard that the truth is always in plain sight?????? Hidden right in front of our eyes?????

Who on the worlds stage is being most affected by this MH17 event? Ukraine? Russia?....or perhaps Malaysia?????? Then toss in the MH370 event.

Isn't Malaysia anti west, anti Israel, anti just about everything the west wants? Who is trying to dig their fangs in to Malaysia? Could it be Goldman Sachs and Citi Group????? (yes, do the research).

While every one is hating on Putin, Malaysia is falling apart politically and economically. Razak (Malaysian Gov) is quickly losing his political influence and Malaysian's economy is being hit hard....not to mention Malaysia is still one of the hold outs towards the Pacific Trade Agreement if my information is correct.

Take the Russian-Ukraine equation out of it and look at the last two huge events in the media blitz, MH370 and MH17, and Malaysia is front and center..............IMO, Malaysia may be an even more important "trophy" than the Ukraine in the economic war we are witnessing. Perhaps the true distraction is the controllers keeping Ukraine and Putin front in center while they blackmail & steal Malaysia?

Sure the Ukraine is a huge development, but sheesh, what is happening to one of the worlds largest economies in one of the fastest growing (very important) strategic locations on this planet?

Also, John Kerry went to Malaysia a few months before MH370 went missing, then Obama went to Malaysia a few months before this current MH17 disaster. Perhaps Malaysia is not playing along and the noose is tightening around their neck?

Also Razak's daughter is a huge AIDS activist, (another personal message towards Razak with AIDS being a focal point of some passengers killed?).

MH370 and MH17 both being Malaysia jets a coincidence? Personally, I think not.....

What we are actually witnessing is an evil and dark quickening towards global control.

[Roisin]

Hmmmmm

LIVE: 'Malaysia Airlines jet veered off flight path to avoid thunderstorms'

http://zeenews.india.com/news/world/live-malaysia-airlines-jet-veered-off-flight-path-to-avoid-thunderstorms_948717.html


Malaysia Airlines jet MH17, that was shot down over eastern Ukraine's war zone, deviated from its normal flight path to avoid thunderstorms, a top aviation official from the European Cockpit Association told the Mirror.

"I heard that they were diverting from some showers... I think there were thunderclouds. You would ask air traffic control to divert left or right, and they would give you the permission," Nico Voorbach, president of the European Cockpit Association, was quoted as saying by the Mirror.

"I think there were thunderclouds. You would ask air traffic control to divert left or right, and they would give you the permission."


So the pilot veered off that "safe" corridor to avoid a thunderstorm regardless that he would be jeopardizing the safety of everyone on board by flying into an active war zone?

They must think the public is completely moronic.... to accept that as true.

[SilentFeathers]

Hmmmmm

LIVE: 'Malaysia Airlines jet veered off flight path to avoid thunderstorms'

http://zeenews.india.com/news/world/live-malaysia-airlines-jet-veered-off-flight-path-to-avoid-thunderstorms_948717.html


Malaysia Airlines jet MH17, that was shot down over eastern Ukraine's war zone, deviated from its normal flight path to avoid thunderstorms, a top aviation official from the European Cockpit Association told the Mirror.

"I heard that they were diverting from some showers... I think there were thunderclouds. You would ask air traffic control to divert left or right, and they would give you the permission," Nico Voorbach, president of the European Cockpit Association, was quoted as saying by the Mirror.

"I think there were thunderclouds. You would ask air traffic control to divert left or right, and they would give you the permission."


So the pilot veered off that "safe" corridor to avoid a thunderstorm regardless that he would be jeopardizing the safety of everyone on board by flying into an active war zone?

They must think the public is completely moronic.... to accept that as true.

They have to start making excuses as to why this jet was off course because they know the public will become privy to this fact that is was off course....once again the blame will fall upon the pilot, as to why it flew in to a turkey shoot location. The story is quickly becoming even more ridiculous than the story of MH370 (and we actually have a better idea where this jet MH17 actually is)

[Roisin]

...

"shot down by missile!"


well... Since it's been trumpeted all around on all sorts of media, the appropriate response should be to spike one's coffee or tea with a double dose of discernment... Since, as a matter of fact, such a claim is not backed up by any evidence but hearsay.

What is not trumpeted around are the jet fighters seen from ground and on the control tower radar screens... With all control tower personnel removed and replaced while their tweets were deleted.

Then there are these contradicting facts: Pilot found harnessed to his seat at the crash site but malaysian airlines reports no distress calls received...

Then there is that report about those bloodless bodies (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?73055-malaysian-plane-crashes-with-295-on-board-ukrainian-adviser-claims-the-plane-was-shot-down&p=854982&viewfull=1#post854982)... I must say that, that was my very reaction when seeing those bodies on the live russian live stream: No blood and the bodies looked like inflatable dolls with "porcelain" skin. That is, something's not right at that site.

So here is a comment which compiles some of those pegs that don't fit anywhere:


reader comment (http://www.sott.net/article/282125-malaysian-airlines-flight-mh17-downed-over-warzone-ukraine-who-was-behind-it-cui-bono#comment107533)

http://www.sott.net/avatar/image/625/thumb/_eyes2.jpg (http://www.sott.net/user/6057-saj) by: saj (http://www.sott.net/user/6057-saj)

someone deliberately rerouted this plane [link (http://www.businessinsider.com/mh17-map-2014-7)] "a source in russia's federal air traffic agency rosaviatsia has said that three days ago ukraine’s national security and defense council closed the airspace over eastern ukraine because of the so-called “anti-terrorist operation” that kiev conducts in the region." [link (http://rt.com/news/173652-fights-avoid-ukrain-malaysian/)]

2 ukrainian fighters seen following malaysian jet minutes before crash [link (http://en.itar-tass.com/russia/741248)] "two ukrainian fighters were following the passenger boeing-777 of malaysian airlines several minutes before the crash, russia’s television channel one said on friday, citing a tweet made a spanish air traffic controller of kiev’s airport borispol.

According to the spanish air traffic controller, two ukrainian fighters had been seen near the malaysian jet three minutes before it disappeared from radars.

This information is confirmed by eyewitnesses in the donetsk region who saw ukrainian warplanes near the passenger jet. They say they heard sounds of powerful blasts and saw a ukraine warplane shortly before the crash."

crashed boeing dispatcher: Two ukrainian military jets near jet before it crashed [link (http://actualidad.rt.com/actualidad/view/134299-controlador-trafico-aereo-buelo-mh17-escoltado-cazas-ucranianos)]

ukraine air traffic controller suggests kiev military shot down passenger plane [link (http://www.eturbonews.com/48079/ukraine-air-traffic-controller-suggests-kiev-military-shot-down-)]
"etn received information from an air traffic controller in kiev on malaysia airlines flight mh17....

The air traffic controller suggested in a private evaluation and basing it on military sources in kiev, that the ukrainian military was behind this shoot down. Radar records were immediately confiscated after it became clear a passenger jet was shot down.
Military air traffic controllers in internal communication acknowledged the military was involved, and some military chatter said they did not know where the order to shoot down the plane originated from.

Obviously it happened after a series of errors, since the very same plane was escorted by two ukrainian fighter jets until 3 minutes before it disappeared from radar.

Radar screen shots also show an unexplained change of course of the malaysian boeing. The change of course took the aircraft directly over the eastern ukraine conflict region." [...]

reports that putin flew similar route as mh17, presidential airport says 'hasn't overflown ukraine for long time' [link (http://rt.com/news/173672-malaysia-plane-crash-putin/)]

"i can say that putin’s plane and the malaysian boeing intersected at the same point and the same echelon. That was close to warsaw on 330-m echelon at the height of 10,100 meters. The presidential jet was there at 16:21 moscow time and the malaysian aircraft - 15:44 moscow time,” a source told the news agency on condition of anonymity.

"the contours of the aircrafts are similar, linear dimensions are also very similar, as for the coloring, at a quite remote distance they are almost identical", the source added" [...]

russian radars record active operation of ukrainian air defense [link (http://english.pravda.ru/news/russia/18-07-2014/128081-ukrainian_air_defense_boeing-0/)]

ukrainian buk battery radar was operational when malaysian plane downed - moscow [link (http://rt.com/news/173784-ukraine-plane-malaysian-russia/)]

ukraine’s anti-aircraft missile system dispatched to donetsk wednesday [link (http://en.itar-tass.com/world/741173)]

igor gunmen: Part of the boeing people died a few days before the disaster [link (http://rusvesna.su/news/1405676334)]
"according to the people who collected the bodies, most of corpses -" stale "- people have died and several days ago. For complete accuracy of this information can not vouch - of course, you need forensic conclusion.. Not all people on the plane were dead before the fall.

Secondly, the plane was discovered a large quantity of drugs, blood serum and other things, which is not typical for conventional liner. It seems that there was a medical special-load.

Third, no not insisting on anything (yet). Literally just now talked to two people personally collected the bodies immediately after the fall (both - of shakhtersk and arrived at the scene in less than half an hour after the accident). With their words and write. They stressed that many corpses were "entirely bloodless" - as if the blood curled long before the disaster. Also noted the strongest and putrid smell, marked by many locals - this odor in any weather for half an hour could not be formed, and the weather was overcast yesterday, not too hot."

prominent hiv researcher joep lange was among the victims of flight mh17 [link (http://www.vox.com/2014/7/17/5914093/prominent-hiv-researcher-dead-on-malaysia-airlines-flight-mh17-aids-2014)]

crash claims 100 top aids researchers heading to melbourne [link (http://www.smh.com.au/national/crash-claims-top-aids-researchers-heading-to-melbourne-20140718-zuaw3.html)]

overflights over the south-east suspended jul 15 2014 [link (http://translate.yandex.net/tr-url/ru-en.en/voicesevas.ru/news/yugo-vostok/2862-polety-aviacii-hunty-nad-yugo-vostokom-priostanovleny.html)]

malaysia strongly condemns israeli aggression in gaza [link (http://www.thesundaily.my/news/1115491)]

flashback - are the israelis planning another false flag using the missing boeing 777? [link (http://www.bollyn.com/are-the-israelis-planning-another-9-11-using-the-missing-777/)]

(perfectly timed) strong empirical evidence israel shot down plane [link (http://www.jimstonefreelance.com/)]

plane shoot down: Approximately 14:15 utc. Israeli assault on gaza: 14:00 utc. See a connection there? And when you consider the fact that it took time to confirm the downing, the two times actually match even more closely. Israel's assault on gaza is viewed badly by the world community, what better way to bury it in the news than a plane shoot down, complete with the threat of a war with russia?

Israel uses schipol airport for drug and gun running and moving their agents in and out of europe as well as false flags. [link (http://www.sott.net/article/202285-underwear-bomber-redux-was-mutallab-an-israeli-secret-weapon)]

(laying the groundwork) mh-17: An exercise in foregone conclusions? [link (http://pennyforyourthoughts2.blogspot.ca/2014/07/mh-17-exercise-in-foregone-conclusions.html)] [link (http://pennyforyourthoughts2.blogspot.ca/2014/07/breaking-malaysian-passenger-plane.html)]
"this past week we have been treated to a narrative that has informed us all that the anti-fascist rebels allegedly have the means to take down airplanes at high altitudes. Alone or with the help of their claimed interchangeable partner- russia. This narrative, repeated and reinforced has never been substantiated.... No evidence given by the kiev fascists. Just unsubstantiated claims. Or as i am proposing the creation of a narrative.

That goes something like this.........

Anti fascists or russia, interchangeable, for this narrative.( interchangeable for all propaganda purposes according to kiev, the obama administration, nato and nato media etc.???)

getting back to the narrative being created all this week

*anti fascists fighters /rebels aided by russia have been shooting down planes flying at high altitude.

*therefore these same groups/partners shot down the malaysian plane" [...]

fri, 18 jul 2014 13:25 cdt




bump... Amazing summarization data ... It will be interesting to see how many of these links survive over the coming days and weeks...

Thanks Amzer for those links!!

[Roisin]

Hmmmmm

LIVE: 'Malaysia Airlines jet veered off flight path to avoid thunderstorms'

http://zeenews.india.com/news/world/live-malaysia-airlines-jet-veered-off-flight-path-to-avoid-thunderstorms_948717.html


Malaysia Airlines jet MH17, that was shot down over eastern Ukraine's war zone, deviated from its normal flight path to avoid thunderstorms, a top aviation official from the European Cockpit Association told the Mirror.

"I heard that they were diverting from some showers... I think there were thunderclouds. You would ask air traffic control to divert left or right, and they would give you the permission," Nico Voorbach, president of the European Cockpit Association, was quoted as saying by the Mirror.

"I think there were thunderclouds. You would ask air traffic control to divert left or right, and they would give you the permission."


So the pilot veered off that "safe" corridor to avoid a thunderstorm regardless that he would be jeopardizing the safety of everyone on board by flying into an active war zone?

They must think the public is completely moronic.... to accept that as true.

They have to start making excuses as to why this jet was off course because they know the public will become privy to this fact that is was off course....once again the blame will fall upon the pilot, as to why it flew in to a turkey shoot location. The story is quickly becoming even more ridiculous than the story of MH370 (and we actually have a better idea where this jet MH17 actually is)

It's pretty unreal isn't it? I'm beside myself at the ridiculousness that's being published in mainstream news wrt to this incident. For me, it's been a real eye-opener!

[GoodETxSG]

While his You Tube Channel is sensational and highly controversial some decent Intel does come out here and there.

For all of the Airline Tickets and Passports to be in mint condition (I do not know of any European's who have Passports in mint condition) and all stacked neatly in one place and were on the aircraft they would have all had to have been inside the same container and packed in a way that the impact didn't crush the corners etc...

I have been at the crash sites of more than a few types of craft both shot down, Engineer or Maintenance Errors, and Weather/Pilot Errors. For items to hit the ground at terminal velocity (Or greater, in this case the plane "Fell") and have no signs of sudden impact damage from rolling is rare unless individually packed in the middle of each passenger's suit case with clothes around them (But we all know you travel w/Passport in hand).

For several dozen passports to be found in the manner reported just does not track. Hunting and pecking photo's of large pieces of aircraft fuselage or other parts will not change my mind on what I have seen. The passports would have been on the burned and/or battered bodies of the passengers or in their carry on luggage. If the passports were confiscated at the beginning of the flight that would be a major red flag to begin with and is unheard of except in some past foul play incidents.

All of the evidence points to the Ukraine (Or the highly paid Western Merc's) being responsible for the shoot down. They have been knowingly shelling civilian populated neighborhoods with the blessing of the current American Administration (Claiming it was ok because it was to protect the "Unity of the Ukraine", lets you know how far they would go here IMHO).

Daboo7 may be a blabber mouth but in this instance he does have a point until another explanation is provided on how the passports and other paperwork were recovered at the crash site in such pristine condition. There is a lot of disinfo going on right now as WWIII is a major goal of the CABAL to buy more time to prevent their demise. The only problem is that their old tactics only worked when they were working in the dark... Now that so many of the population are "awakened" to their existence and tactics, people are seeing through almost ALL of their "False Flag" tactics that they have used to manipulate the world for so long. In my opinion this whole incident smells, No Reek's of a Despicable Operation to escalate things in E. Ukraine and "Their" time table for Economic War followed by WWIII. IMHO...

Donetsk People’s Republic guarantees security to experts working at the Boeing crash site
http://en.itar-tass.com/world/741502

FINAL – Spanish Air Controller @ Kiev Borispol Airport: Ukraine Military Shot Down Boeing #MH17
http://slavyangrad.wordpress.com/2014/07/18/spanish-air-controller-kiev-borispol-airport-ukraine-military-shot-down-boeing-mh17/

Ukraine's Security Service Has Confiscated Air Traffic Control Recordings With Malaysian Jet
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-07-18/ukraines-security-service-has-confiscated-air-traffic-control-recordings-malaysian-j

Was Ukraine’s Ministry of Interior behind the Downing of Malaysian Airlines MH17?
http://www.globalresearch.ca/was-ukraines-ministry-of-interior-behind-the-downing-of-malaysian-airlines-mh17/5391909

Ukraine Warzone: Was Flight MH-17 Diverted Over Restricted Airspace?
http://www.globalresearch.ca/was-flight-mh-17-diverted-over-restricted-airspace/5392201

http://www.zerohedge.com/sites/default/files/images/user5/imageroot/2014/07/MH%2017%20flight%20paths_0.png

Kiev Deployed Powerful Anti-air Systems to East Ukraine ahead of the Malaysian Plane Crash
http://www.globalresearch.ca/kiev-deployed-powerful-anti-air-systems-to-east-ukraine-ahead-of-the-malaysian-plane-crash/5392280?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=kiev-deployed-powerful-anti-air-systems-to-east-ukraine-ahead-of-the-malaysian-plane-crash

Malaysia MH17 Crash: Ten Questions Russia wants Ukraine to Answer
http://www.globalresearch.ca/malaysia-mh17-crash-ten-questions-russia-wants-ukraine-to-answer/5392276?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=malaysia-mh17-crash-ten-questions-russia-wants-ukraine-to-answer

EDIT: Disinfo about what is occurring in that region is rampant! What is going on is literally sanctioned war crimes. Most who watch the MSM buy every word. Those of us who have been in Intel/Counter Intel and still have contacts do not even wast time with TV or MSM News Sites. There are too many "Coincidences" to ignore...
So, ANOTHER MH Airliner "Down" (Coincidence?), Happens in the most Politically Escalation to war "HOT ZONES" (Coincidence?), Incident happens to be beneficial to the goals of the CABAL controlled Ukraine Gov. (Coincidence?)...

Russia handing over sophisticated weapons to people that do not know how to use them and accident occurs/DisInfo (Computerised craft identification & FOF ID is apart of these systems, and they are manned in the Ukraine by experienced specialists that have had & USED these systems for years, the East/"Rebels" are made up of the same trained UK specialists Deserters and Russian advisers who "Man" all Mobile SAM Batteries.

The many innocent citizens being shelled and bombed have picked up small arms but do not operate these devices, who ever put out that theory was putting out intentional disinfo or speaking from ignorance of what is happening on the ground there.)...

I do not believe in "Coincidence" especially on a "Stage with these known Actors"... That is all I have to say on the matter. I think it is pretty obvious what occurred although the details may not be known for some time unless they are successful in "painting stripes" on the "Rebels" or "Terrorists" depending on which side you talk to... IMHO.

[sigma6]

Attached is the Spanish Air Traffic Controller in Kiev tweets from his twitter account during the event, which I've translated from Spanish to English using google translate.
The twitter account appears to no longer exists. The record comes from google cache, and may soon disappear ... so I've uploaded a screenshot of the translation ...

I've no way to determine if the tweets are fake, but it looks like it adds to the body of evidence ... so people can make up their own minds ...

Added: Globalresearch article about same info
http://www.globalresearch.ca/spanish-air-controller-kiev-borispol-airport-ukraine-military-shot-down-boeing-mh17/5391888


There's also a link to an interview with the guy in spanish from RT (for any spanish speakers out there :)) .
http://actualidad.rt.com/actualidad/view/127516-amenazar-controlador-espanol-ucrania-crisis

http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:twitter.com/spainbuca (Original Spanish)

Why would it be fake? How could Russia or Eastern Ukraine fake a Spanish Air Traffic Controller? This is going to devastate the Western Propaganda, that and dead already smelling rotting bodies drained of blood (or dead and frozen for weeks...) Gee who likes to keep frozen bodies on storage for special occasions (Piecnenik stated this is what the US did with Bin Laden...) Never at loss for one more stage prop...

[Hervé]

The whole thing, to me, is strangely reminiscent -- in a weird way-- of another false flag event:

Sandy Hook!

Why?

Because of all the "stupid" inconsistencies planted here and there all over the place but are in fact "intelligently" placed so as to confuse each and everyone...

... truly wicked!

[SilentFeathers]

Just another jiblet of bizarreness that as it may seem is unrelated, but in someway could be related....


Malaysian protesters dressed as zombies outside a shopping mall in Kuala Lumpur on 21 February 2014 to protest the impact of the TPP on the price of medicines, including treatment drugs for HIV. The protest group consisted of students, members of the Malaysian AIDS Council, as well as HIV-positive patients, with one patient explaining that, in Malaysian ringgit, he spent between RM500 and RM600 each month on treatment drugs, but this cost would increase to around RM3,000.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trans-Pacific_Partnership

[Hervé]

Just another jiblet of bizarreness that as it may seem is unrelated, but in someway could be related....


Malaysian protesters dressed as zombies outside a shopping mall in Kuala Lumpur on 21 February 2014 to protest the impact of the TPP on the price of medicines, including treatment drugs for HIV. The protest group consisted of students, members of the Malaysian AIDS Council, as well as HIV-positive patients, with one patient explaining that, in Malaysian ringgit, he spent between RM500 and RM600 each month on treatment drugs, but this cost would increase to around RM3,000.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trans-Pacific_Partnership

If not directly related, it is, definitely, at a "global" level:


[...]

At least now, with Abomino-Care, the apples are made to taste bitterly real; like:


LIMITING ACCESS TO AFFORDABLE MEDICAL CARE MAKES ELIMINATING THE ELDERLY EASIER
A big item – [that] was elaborated at some length – was the cost of medical care would be burdensomely high. Medical care would be connected very closely with one's work, but also would be made very, very high in cost so that it would simply be unavailable to people beyond a certain time. And unless they had a remarkably rich, supporting family, they would just have to do without care.

And the idea was that if everybody says, "Enough! What a burden it is on the young to try to maintain the old people," then the young would become agreeable to helping Mom and Dad along the way, provided this was done humanely and with dignity. And then the real example was - there could be like a nice, farewell party, a real celebration. Mom and Dad had done a good job. And then after the party's over they take the "demise pill."

[rgray222]

As tempting as it is to make a massive conspiracy about this sad incident, I believe this was simply caused by a young Russian sympathizer or Russian soldier with that had been shown how to operate this sophisticated weapon but not shown (at least very well) how to identify a military plane from a commercial aircraft.

As with all of these incidents there will always be facts that do not fit, there will always be facts that logic cannot put neatly into place. This does not mean that this particular case is a conspiracy.

When the Americans shot down Iran Air Flight 655 a civilian passenger flight from Tehran to Dubai, now that may have been intentional and that may have very well been conspiratorial. After all the attack took place in Iranian airspace, over Iran's territorial waters in the Persian Gulf, and on the flight's usual flight path. The aircraft, an Airbus A300, was destroyed by SM-2MR surface-to-air missiles fired from the Vincennes. All 290 on board, including 66 children and 16 crew, died. I believe that may very well have been on purpose and to send a message but this sad event over the Ukraine is nothing more than Putin making a power grab and the ineptness of his soldiers backfiring on his narcissistic plans.

Anyone who reads through the "real" details of this event can only reach one conclusion. It was not planned, it was not a conspiracy and it is what it is.

[gripreaper]

The whole thing, to me, is strangely reminiscent -- in a weird way-- of another false flag event: Sandy Hook! Why? Because of all the "stupid" inconsistencies planted here and there all over the place but are in fact "intelligently" placed so as to confuse each and everyone... truly wicked!

Thanks for the summation Amzer Zo. It's hard to read every post when a thread moves really fast.

One of the main shifts in the last few years, which to me has been major, is the ability to entrain large segments of the population to believe that their thoughts are their own, their beliefs are their own, and their reactions are there own, when in fact, the surveillance grid, data mining, storing, collating, and meme creation based on agenda is what is driving the mass global consciousness.

To me, it is so blatant, its pathetic. Every day its pounded into our brains that there are political and religious factions fighting against each other and the only solution is war, that humans are inherently evil and cannot be trusted, that the state is the only one who can fix the problems we have, and that we should all just stay in line and follow the protocol or we will be labeled as domestic terrorists.

I do realize that people are not buying these memes as quickly and as easily as they used to, but that only makes the purveyors of the big lie more aggressive in their attempts to control consciousness and pound their crap into our heads even more.

Some of these false flags are just beta tests and are used to gather response and reaction data so that the engineers of meme control can fine tune the microwave entrainment systems to better control the fallout from the divergent miscreants, those 15% who are too conscious and too awake who cannot be entrained. There has to be some way to isolate them and make them irrelevant, right?

[Hervé]

[...]

Some of these false flags are just beta tests and are used to gather response and reaction data so that the engineers of meme control can fine tune the microwave entrainment systems to better control the fallout from the divergent miscreants, those 15% who are too conscious and too awake who cannot be entrained. There has to be some way to isolate them and make them irrelevant, right?

Yep! Testing the water and checking the state of the terrain on how viral things can go!

It seems that they don't even care about those 15% once they've managed to polarize the remaining 85% into one set direction...

Check this thread: True Cabal Insider, Dr. Richard Day, Delivers Talk in 1969 Outlining 'the Full Agenda' (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?73054-True-Cabal-Insider-Dr.-Richard-Day-Delivers-Talk-in-1969-Outlining-the-Full-Agenda)

... where one can find such gems like this one (in the transcripts):


Now, reproduction without sex... what you would get then would have all the desirable attributes of a human being without any claim to human rights. The way we do it now, we say, you're human because you have a father and mother... you have a family and so you're a human being with human rights. But if your father was a petrie dish and you mother was a test tube, how can you lay claim to human rights? You owe your existence to the laboratory which conveys to you no human rights.
And there is no God, so you can't go for any God-given human rights, so you're an ideal slave. You have all the attributes of a human being but you don't have any claim on rights.I trust you see where this is going...


Anyway: :focus:

[ktlight]

This incident took the heat off Israel's activities in Gaza. So while this happened and all the speculation about the cause took place, Israel moved in on the ground to Gaza and started killing off everyone. Meanwhile Obama and Cameron swore their allegiance again to Israel. Does no-one realise that we do not own the planet, which has been fragmented to death? It was here long before we arrived. And why is war so necessary to the West's economy. It is only humans who pay to live here.

[Cidersomerset]

Related historical article....

--------------------------------


U.S. Government Lied to Pretend that Accidental Russian Shootdown of Commercial Plane Was Intentional

Sunday 20th July 2014 at 05:29 By david-icke


http://www.davidicke.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/190714kor.jpg


‘We noted yesterday that Ukraine, Russia, the U.S., Israel and China have all accidentally shot
down commercial airplanes.

Ray McGovern – a 27-year CIA veteran, who chaired National Intelligence Estimates and
personally delivered intelligence briefings to Presidents Ronald Reagan and George H.W.
Bush, their vice presidents, secretaries of state, the Joint Chiefs of Staff, and many other
senior government officials – provides vital details on an accidental shootdown by
Russia – and America’s disinformation campaign to make it look intentional – 3 decades ago.’

Read more: U.S. Government Lied to Pretend that Accidental Russian Shootdown of Commercial Plane Was Intentional

http://www.davidicke.com/headlines/2014/07/20/


=================================================================

http://www.washingtonsblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/08/Old-Banner-Brighter.jpg

U.S. Government Lied to Pretend that Accidental Russian Shootdown of Commercial Plane Was Intentional … Three Decades Ago

Posted on July 19, 2014 by WashingtonsBlog


The U.S. Has Previously Carried Out a Major Disinformation Campaign to Malign Russia

We noted yesterday that Ukraine, Russia, the U.S., Israel and China have all accidentally shot down commercial airplanes.

Ray McGovern – a 27-year CIA veteran, who chaired National Intelligence Estimates and personally delivered intelligence
briefings to Presidents Ronald Reagan and George H.W. Bush, their vice presidents, secretaries of state, the Joint Chiefs
of Staff, and many other senior government officials – provides vital details on an accidental shootdown by Russia – and
America’s disinformation campaign to make it look intentional – 3 decades ago:


The U.S. press might pause to recall how it’s been manipulated by the U.S. government in the past, including three
decades ago by the Reagan administration twisting the facts of the KAL-007 tragedy.

In that case, a Soviet fighter jet shot down a Korean Air Line plane on Sept. 1, 1983, after it strayed hundreds of miles off
course and penetrated some of the Soviet Union’s most sensitive airspace over military facilities in Kamchatka and Sakhalin Island.

http://www.airvectors.net/avsu15_01.jpg

Over Sakhalin, KAL-007 was finally intercepted by a Soviet Sukhoi-15 fighter. The Soviet pilot tried to signal the plane to
land, but the KAL pilots did not respond to the repeated warnings. Amid confusion about the plane’s identity — a U.S. spy
plane had been in the vicinity hours earlier — Soviet ground control ordered the pilot to fire. He did, blasting the plane out
of the sky and killing all 269 people on board.

http://www.habu.org/credited/landis-firstrefuel.jpg


The Soviets soon realized they had made a horrendous mistake. U.S. intelligence also knew from sensitive intercepts that
the tragedy had resulted from a blunder, not from a willful act of murder ….

But a Soviet admission of a tragic blunder regarding KAL-007 wasn’t good enough for the Reagan administration, which
saw the incident as a propaganda windfall. At the time, the felt imperative in Washington was to blacken the Soviet Union
in the cause of Cold War propaganda and to escalate tensions with Moscow.

Falsifying the Case

To make the very blackest case against Moscow, the Reagan administration suppressed the exculpatory evidence from
the U.S. electronic intercepts. The U.S. mantra became “the deliberate downing of a civilian passenger plane.” Newsweek
ran a cover emblazoned with the headline “Murder in the Sky.”

“The Reagan administration’s spin machine began cranking up,” wrote Alvin A. Snyder, then-director of the U.S.
Information Agency’s television and film division, in his 1995 book, Warriors of Disinformation.

USIA Director Charles Z. Wick “ordered his top agency aides to form a special task force to devise ways of playing
the story overseas. The objective, quite simply, was to heap as much abuse on the Soviet Union as possible,” Snyder recalled.

Snyder noted that “the American media swallowed the U.S. government line without reservation. Said the venerable
Ted Koppel on the ABC News ‘Nightline’ program: ‘This has been one of those occasions when there is very little
difference between what is churned out by the U.S. government propaganda organs and by the commercial broadcasting networks.’”

On Sept. 6, 1983, the Reagan administration went so far as to present a doctored transcript of the intercepts to
the United Nations Security Council (a prelude to a similar false presentation two decades later by Secretary of
State Colin Powell on Iraq’s alleged weapons of mass destruction).

“The tape was supposed to run 50 minutes,” Snyder said about recorded Soviet intercepts. “But the tape segment
we [at USIA] had ran only eight minutes and 32 seconds. … ‘Do I detect the fine hand of [Richard Nixon's secretary]
Rosemary Woods here?’ I asked sarcastically.’”

But Snyder had a job to do: producing the video that his superiors wanted. “The perception we wanted to convey
was that the Soviet Union had cold-bloodedly carried out a barbaric act,” Snyder wrote.

Only a decade later, when Snyder saw the complete transcripts — including the portions that the Reagan administration
had hidden — would he fully realize how many of the central elements of the U.S. presentation were false.

The Soviet fighter pilot apparently did believe he was pursuing a U.S. spy plane, according to the intercepts, and he was
having trouble in the dark identifying the plane. At the instructions of Soviet ground controllers, the pilot had circled the
KAL airliner and tilted his wings to force the aircraft down. The pilot said he fired warning shots, too. “This comment was
also not on the tape we were provided,” Snyder wrote.

It was clear to Snyder that in the pursuit of its Cold War aims, the Reagan administration had presented false accusations
to the United Nations, as well as to the people of the United States and the world. To these Republicans, the ends of
smearing the Soviets had justified the means of falsifying the historical record.

In his book, Snyder acknowledged his role in the deception and drew an ironic lesson from the incident. The senior USIA official
wrote, “The moral of the story is that all governments, including our own, lie when it suits their purposes. The key is to lie first.”


http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2014/07/u-s-government-lied-accidental-shootdown-commercial-plane-3-decades-ago.html

=================================================

This should go here as Ray Mc Govern talks about above article..

'Obama agrees with Putin on MH17 and vice versa. Poroshenko isolated'

NZwythZvgeg

Published on 19 Jul 2014


Barack Obama claims the US has firm evidence that the plane was shot down by a
missile, fired from an area controlled by anti-Kiev fighters. He also accuses Russia
of supporting them. Nevertheless US president agrees to Putin's calls to conduct
transparent investigation and saysit's too early to say who and why shot down the
plane. Ex-CIA analyst Ray McGovern see the situation as isolation for President
Poroshenko

[rgray222]

Does no-one realise that we do not own the planet, which has been fragmented to death? It was here long before we arrived. And why is war so necessary to the West's economy. It is only humans who pay to live here.

Not sure what you mean by the above statement.

My take on this is that the Palestine/Israel situation and the Malaysian flight are getting pretty much equal coverage by the mainstream media, I don't think either is bumping the other from the news.

[jackovesk]

Why would it be fake? How could Russia or Eastern Ukraine fake a Spanish Air Traffic Controller? This is going to devastate the Western Propaganda, that and dead already smelling rotting bodies drained of blood (or dead and frozen for weeks...) Gee who likes to keep frozen bodies on storage for special occasions (Piecnenik stated this is what the US did with Bin Laden...) Never at loss for one more stage prop


(Piecnenik stated this is what the US did with Bin Laden...)

That reminds me, I was going to look into what Dr. Steve Pieczenik's ((INTEL)) was on MH17..?

http://media.tumblr.com/8f6fe1550f7cd35b897da921e299f747/tumblr_inline_mlf0mm7r0t1rn2vc5.png

Once Again, The Intelligence Theater Of The Absurd: Malaysian AF 17 “Shot Down With Missile” Over Ukraine As 70,000 Israeli Soldiers INVADE GAZA IN A NEW WAR!!

July 18, 2014

News Coverage Co-Opted by: American/Israeli/Russian/Dutch /Malaysian Intelligence Services to Divert Attention Away from Israeli Slaughter of Innocent Children, Women, Civilians In Gaza! The first and most horrific casualty in the Israeli War and Malaysian Airline Tragedy is the TRUTH! Remember that the truth is always the first victim of any war.

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-lBbRfeFSJSc/U8mLhg7tBZI/AAAAAAAAEMg/aUZQXjCbI-0/s1600/images-26.jpeg

I must state categorically that I have never witnessed a more absurd attempt at diverting worldwide news attention away from an ACTUAL ILLEGAL INVASION by Israeli forces into another country (Gaza) than this directing of MEDIA ATTENTION to an “ALLEGED” DOWNING of yet another “MYSTERIOUS EXISTING/NON-EXISTING MALAYSIAN AIRLINE.” Yes, once again, like the ‘stand down’ in 9/11 and the sick makeshift drama of ‘Newtown’, we are now witnessed to the collective creative forces of the intelligence communities of the USA, Russia, Israel, Holland and of course, the pathetic country run by the Genting Gambling Empire: Malaysia to another narrative that RINGS FALSE.

In the world of intelligence there is one SACRED RULE nothing happens by accident! Like psychiatry, intelligence speaks most loudly in the interstices of SILENCE –what is not said and not what is in the verbal diarrhea of media, Tv pundits and histrionic articles about kids killed on board a plane. Remember: You are supposed to forget that 1800 innocent Palestinians have been wounded and close to 300 killed in a gratuitous slaughter of people in Gaza by Israeli forces. You are supposed to be distracted!

Now what do I mean?

When countries are afraid or unwilling to intercede in an imminent war, like that of Israel constantly fixated on destroying it’s own creation –HAMAS—then a new narrative must be created by the various countries to avoid their inherent responsibility to pre-empt this impending war. The narrative creators, various Intelligence services including the CIA, FSB, Mossad, Dutch intel and Malaysian ‘pimps’, have constructed a phantasmagorical plot that once again involves yet, another, “mysterious Malaysian Airline” like the former disappearing one that CNN obsessively described for over one month.

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-tmbmAooLMM0/U8mLtqRhUQI/AAAAAAAAEMo/u_3h6X76Gwo/s1600/images-29.jpeg

What is the evidence for my assertion?

[1] Once again, CNN in the person of the effete CIA operative Anderson Cooper brought on board for our viewing pleasure a new character whom I call “Major Mudd’, in real life a 25 year veteran of the CIA/FBI [which one are you? Or does the CIA admit they use the FBI as a ‘cover’?]. This Major Mudd explains the intricacies of HUMINT, ELITN, SIGINT, and even has the intercepted NSA recordings of “Russian Separatists BOASTING ABOUT THEIR ACHIEVEMENT WITH THEIR MISSILE STRIKE”.

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-qfRElxgr8Qc/U8mL6kSdJxI/AAAAAAAAEMw/qqZMd7G4Y00/s1600/images-30.jpeg

How convenient!

[2] Then we have the dependable histrionic professional POW, SENATOR JOHN McCAIN blustering about ‘serious consequences‘ against the Russians.

Of course, no mention was ever made about ISRAEL’S DECLARATION OF WAR IN GAZA!! That’s irrelevant to the former ISRAELI BOUGHT presidential candidate.

How convenient!

[3] Then Six of the Major Articles in the formerly esteemed NYTimes and Washington Post are about the missile, airplane routes of Ukraine, even a touching story about a girl and her doll on the Malaysian Airline ! Yet only one minor article on the 70K man invasion into Gaza! That’s amazing editorial assessment. A possible airline downing takes precedence over an actual gritty dirty war in Gaza involving hundred of thousand innocent lives and 300 children already dead. Only the Wall Street Journal, usually pro-Israel, wrote in an extensive, detailed piece on the IDF INVASION.

[3] Yet the most revealing piece of intelligence deception was a STRATFOR REPORT by the founder and chairman of Stratfor [CIA CUT-OUT] GEORGE FRIEDMAN describing in the most obtuse, convoluted sophomoric logic ever created by a HUNGARIAN JEW how the Malaysian Airline downing and the Israel incursion reflected “geopolitical imperatives”.

Absolute and complete nonsense for which I pay $350 a year .

[4] Then to top of the Absurd narrative, we have WHO researchers on their collective way to an AIDS conference in Australia by way of Kuala Lampur, Malaysia who were killed in this sad ‘Malaysia tragedy’. BTW, Bill Clinton is the GUEST SPEAKER at the AIDS CONFERENCE.

How convenient!

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-IW2ogCdRNtQ/U8mMGRiQ1QI/AAAAAAAAEM4/LcDePjhu8nI/s1600/images-28.jpeg

I am shocked, Rick, ‘this is a Casino!’ here in Casablanca. I will round up the usual suspects and please give me my 40,000 Francs.

Now why would Russia, USA, Israel, Malaysia and Holland collaborate on this type of nonsensical narrative?
Because each country has something to gain from avoiding condemnation of Israel and helping to create another Malaysian fairy-tale.

▪ USA does not want to interfere with Israeli attempts to curb Hamas. American overtures for peace have failed and have embarrassed this administration. Also the USA owes Israel for their help in the 9/11 ‘stand down’ which killed 3000 plus innocent Americans at the World Trade Center.

▪ Russia, as I have mentioned in the previous blog, has very close relations with Israel and Lieberman [Israel Minister of Foreign Affairs] and they seek help from Israel with Syria, ISIS [Israel funds them]; and allows Russia to enter the Middle East, ass-backward.

▪ CIA, FSB, GRU and MOSSAD all like to work together at one or another time. Very convenient.

▪ Holland—Now here is the one country that has always hidden behind a Jewish Myth—The Anne Frank Story --nonsensical story used to cover up Holland’s persecution of the JEWS IN HOLLAND [93 % of all Dutch Jews were killed by the DUTCH not the Nazis]. The Anne Frank story was used to cover up WAR CRIME COLLABORATIONS BETWEEN HOLLAND AND THE NAZIS. This WWII travesty will be elaborated in another blog.

▪ Malaysia of all the East Asian countries that can ‘pimp and prostitute’ itself for money—no country can beat the MALAYSIANS. When I was DAS for EAST ASIA, I remember another medical doctor, Dr Mahatir, who was a brilliant, manipulative extractor of favors ‘granted and received’.

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-hzrVI2LleIQ/U8mMUQVH7jI/AAAAAAAAENA/tSRsGejH3Z4/s1600/Unknown-3.jpeg

With respect to prostituting itself for money—Malaysia’s Genting Group wants favorable treatment in Miami, NY State, Pennsylvania in order to continue to develop MAJOR GAMBLING CASINOS all over the USA. BTW, the Genting Group in addition to running horse tracks, casinos and cruise-lines are notorious for being the drug runners of the world.

So I have presented to you, a background scenario which in my mind co-opts the nefarious narrative offered by the world wide media about some ‘real’ or ‘mythical’ Malaysian Airline which conveniently was shot down the same day that the Israelis invaded and slaughtered innocents in Gaza. Just like a skilled pick pocket or other criminal creates a “distraction” so you will not notice the REAL CRIME that is being committed. Israel knew from the beginning of the creation of Operation Dome that it would be in constant strategic tensions with the “terrorist” group it created –HAMAS—in order to test, refine and develop new weapons systems for the world-wide consortium of military industrial juggernauts eager to acquire the latest KILLING MACHINE.

What is a few hundred if not thousands of Palestinians, or Israelis or Jews, Muslims, Christians killed in the act of war? When war can give you the Miracle Weapons: drones, SDI, disease warfare, chemical weapons that command high profit margins! Greedy cowards and political elites worldwide will create all kinds of stories if it serves their purpose of economic, geopolitical and intelligence self-aggrandizement.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-y5bfyGWY5w0/U8mMh4TmlrI/AAAAAAAAENI/eScdAC9gezI/s1600/Unknown-9.jpeg


Hitler said it best when he decided to exterminate the Polish Jews, Slavs, Homosexuals, Gypsies, “Who remembers the Armenian Genocide of 1.2 million Armenian women, children all killed on the Death March from Turkey to Alleppo, Syria?“

Or maybe I should paraphrase Stalin, One death on a mysterious airplane is a tragedy but thousands of deaths in Gaza and Israeli are merely statistics!

Tragedy is sensational, worthy of headlines! Statistics are boring and not newsworthy. Historical amnesia and indifference are the greatest palliatives for national greed fed with nefarious deeds.

http://pieczenik.blogspot.com.au/

PS - As per usual Dr. Steve transforms the Debate into something many may not be able to grasp...

Quid Pro Quo...

(Problem-Reaction-Solution) Hidden in (PLAIN) view..!

I'm not saying his (Intel) is legit, but what I am saying the 'above' certainly should not be discarded...:nono:

[Agape]

A thought or two of mine own .. such as who might have true interest in both of the Malaysian planes disasters ..and whom you /we potentially do not count it .

I do best without links to think straight so if plenty of links are considered 'supportive evidence' you'll have to excuse me and do your own search that you'll do anyway .

Malaysia ? What do we truly know about Malaysia ?

Yes me too I have had friends there and heard it's one of the most beautiful countries in the world , with people of all different religious groups living peacefully together, the majority are Muslims but they're not that orthodox, there's plenty of unspoiled wildlife , mild climate all over the year , beautiful fruits ,
it's a progressive country in many terms .. taking care of people and environment, high living standards, and so forth .

Does it have a shady side ?

I bet sure it does . The major investors of this rapid economical and class growth in Malaysia were not the Muslim sheikhs and their descendants you see in todays government ,
theirs is a due half but maybe well 'lesser half' , the others were rich Chinese businessmen , similar people as those who built Hongkong and Singapore , and .. their Western counterparts .

You and I may not see to this ... it's in Asia .. their powerful clans and mafia wars .

What could be the reason ?

Malaysian government turning 'too pro-democracy' and establishing ties with the West ?

Many of the MA370 passengers were Chinese engineers working for US company, US patent holders .

Of course, this is not how any official government agency would think or act .. they can't afford to breach commonly accepted rules . But this is how mafia backed up by extremely rich people MAY think and act ,
to achieve aims we may know nothing about quite yet .

I can't imagine how would this serve them anyway except for pulling the strings of political imbalance , would they 'pay Putin for the expenses ' of risking a war against the world ?

It's the same people who would like to see the Chinese Dragon rising .. not by the law but by the power of money that's been hidden ..


I may be 100% wrong here but if you're searching for common denominator for the two crashes, don't be so America-centred and think everything in the world is happening because of you .
The power of America is in its openness ... while the power of the East had long been in its secrecy and hidden laws ..
two exactly opposing factors in the game, yin and yang .

The secret of the power-game is in the power being distributed equally, small or big . When serious misbalance occurs, conflicts start and may turn to wars .

If I think about meaning of these 2 accidents seriously ..and all the state of matters, internationally, I sense a warning ..

[Cidersomerset]

http://static.bbci.co.uk/frameworks/barlesque/2.64.0/desktop/3.5/img/blq-blocks_grey_alpha.png


20 July 2014 Last updated at 16:23

MH17 air crash: Recovered bodies put on trainLatest

http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/76399000/jpg/_76399609_023224675-1.jpg

A freight wagon carrying the remains of MH17 victims in Torez station, eastern
Ukraine, 20 July A freight wagon carrying the remains of MH17 victims at Torez station

The remains of up to 196 people from the MH17 crash in Ukraine have been loaded
on to refrigerated rail wagons, to be taken to an unknown destination.All 298
people on Malaysia Airlines flight MH17 died when a missile reportedly hit it on
Thursday. Western countries have criticised pro-Russian rebels controlling the area
for restricting access to the crash site.

The rebels say they will hand MH17's flight recorders to the International Civil
Aviation Organization.

http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/76397000/jpg/_76397588_def8a830-554a-4b0f-8c23-428708a7ba81.jpg

Most of the recovered bodies are thought to have been put in refrigerated rail wagons

Read more....


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-28389991

====================================================

http://static.bbci.co.uk/frameworks/barlesque/2.64.0/desktop/3.5/img/blq-blocks_grey_alpha.png


19 July 2014 Last updated at 17:47

MH17 Malaysia plane crash in Ukraine: What we knowLatest



All 298 people on board a Malaysia Airlines plane have died after the airliner
crashed in eastern Ukraine, close to the border with Russia.

Flight MH17 from Amsterdam to Kuala Lumpur was travelling over the conflict-hit
region when it disappeared from radar. A total of 283 passengers, including some
80 children, and 15 crew members were on board.

http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/76388000/jpg/_76388144_ukraine_malaysia_plane_976_latest_v2.jpg

Map showing the flight path and crash site of flight MH17
Graphic: altitude

http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/76350000/jpg/_76350056_flight_altitude_976_latest_v2.jpg


Read more.....

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-28357880

[Zamolxe]

Anyone who reads through the "real" details of this event can only reach one conclusion. It was not planned, it was not a conspiracy and it is what it is.

I also believe that. Russia made the huge mistake to hand the rebels a Buk launcher without thinking that they might actually shoot down a passenger airliner by mistake. It's also possible that the Ukraine army tried to provoke them by flying fighter bombers behind the aircraft, maybe to make them believe it's a transport plane, alraedy having knowledge of the presence of the launcher in the area.
But in the end it was a mistake giving poorly trained rebels such powerful weaponry.
They were playing this war like it's a game and eventually got burned.
Of course for Isrel and the cabal this event was a jackpot and tried to use it to their advantage.
That's why conflict is never the answer, peaceful protest followed by truthful debate and negotiations should always be sought.

The following events happened before the crash and before the Ukrainian army brought the launchers to the front line to defend from possible russian air skirmishes.
The russian state news agency reported that the rebels captured a Buk launcher from the Ukrainian army (this tipicaly means that they gave them a launcher and set up the news so that they have an answer if anybody assumed Russia sent it accross the border- The ukraine army did not report this. Don't you think they would do that immediately, exactly not to be framed in case of an event? REMEMBER: russian propaganda said this, not ukrainian media); they boasted the capture on twitter and facebook. Pictures and videos appeared with the launcher on the streets of a rebel controlled town.

[Zamolxe]

Does no-one realise that we do not own the planet, which has been fragmented to death? It was here long before we arrived. And why is war so necessary to the West's economy. It is only humans who pay to live here.

Not sure what you mean by the above statement.

My take on this is that the Palestine/Israel situation and the Malaysian flight are getting pretty much equal coverage by the mainstream media, I don't think either is bumping the other from the news.

Actually I think that because they were going to invade anyway, this event was an opportunity to take a considerable amount of heat off it. It's just a tactical decision after hearing the crash took place.

[Zamolxe]

If it was a staged event, wouldn't the news of the captured BUK launcher have appeared in ukrainian and western media instead of pro-russian media?

[jackovesk]

A thought or two of mine own .. such as who might have true interest in both of the Malaysian planes disasters ..and whom you /we potentially do not count it .

I do best without links to think straight so if plenty of links are considered 'supportive evidence' you'll have to excuse me and do your own search that you'll do anyway .

Malaysia ? What do we truly know about Malaysia ?

Yes me too I have had friends there and heard it's one of the most beautiful countries in the world , with people of all different religious groups living peacefully together, the majority are Muslims but they're not that orthodox, there's plenty of unspoiled wildlife , mild climate all over the year , beautiful fruits ,
it's a progressive country in many terms .. taking care of people and environment, high living standards, and so forth .

Does it have a shady side ?

I bet sure it does . The major investors of this rapid economical and class growth in Malaysia were not the Muslim sheikhs and their descendants you see in todays government ,
theirs is a due half but maybe well 'lesser half' , the others were rich Chinese businessmen , similar people as those who built Hongkong and Singapore , and .. their Western counterparts .

You and I may not see to this ... it's in Asia .. their powerful clans and mafia wars .

What could be the reason ?

Malaysian government turning 'too pro-democracy' and establishing ties with the West ?

Many of the MA370 passengers were Chinese engineers working for US company, US patent holders .

Of course, this is not how any official government agency would think or act .. they can't afford to breach commonly accepted rules . But this is how mafia backed up by extremely rich people MAY think and act ,
to achieve aims we may know nothing about quite yet .

I can't imagine how would this serve them anyway except for pulling the strings of political imbalance , would they 'pay Putin for the expenses ' of risking a war against the world ?

It's the same people who would like to see the Chinese Dragon rising .. not by the law but by the power of money that's been hidden ..


I may be 100% wrong here but if you're searching for common denominator for the two crashes, don't be so America-centred and think everything in the world is happening because of you .
The power of America is in its openness ... while the power of the East had long been in its secrecy and hidden laws ..
two exactly opposing factors in the game, yin and yang .

The secret of the power-game is in the power being distributed equally, small or big . When serious misbalance occurs, conflicts start and may turn to wars .

If I think about meaning of these 2 accidents seriously ..and all the state of matters, internationally, I sense a warning ..

Some of these Questions are answered in the Dr. Steve Pieczenik's post 'above your OP...:yes4:

[Cidersomerset]

A few recent Rt articles.........


Moscow raises questions surrounding MH17 crash

12UaRF5fE_c

Published on 19 Jul 2014


There are still more questions than answers on the catastrophe.
And Russia's Defense Ministry is demanding information from Kiev.
RT's Maria Finoshina reports.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------



Experts slow to access MH17 crash site close to frontline, only OSCE arrived

ajeCkTUFyB0

Published on 20 Jul 2014


Flowers layed upon debris and the scattered remains of 298 people.
Russia and the UN have urged for an international investigation and
a team of observers arrived at the site on Friday. But local self-proclaimed
authorities say international involvement has been slow in coming.

------------------------------------------------------------------------


Ukrainian Emergency services remove bodies from MH17 crash site

4JbDgeBWA6I

Published on 19 Jul 2014


The bodies of the victims of Malaysia Airlines flight MH17 were removed
from the crash site near the settlement of Grabovo, Donetsk region,
Saturday. The Malaysia Airlines flight MH17, which was en route to Kuala
Lumpur from Amsterdam, went down in eastern Ukraine on Thursday.
The aircraft was flying at an altitude of around 10,600 metres (34,700 feet)
when ground control lost contact. It has not yet been confirmed how the
plane was brought down.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

RAW: World mourns MH17 crash in Ukraine


CjrA44MrTB0

Published on 19 Jul 2014


Mourners from around the globe left flowers, candles and stuffed
animals for the victims of the MH17 crash in Ukraine. In Amsterdam's
airport where the plane took off, to the small flower shop that two
of the victims owned, people paid their respects to those who died.

[sigma6]

While I was initially inclined to discount the ‘missed Putin’s plane’ theory as a red herring here, on further consideration it does have some significant merit.

The Official Story/Plan A here is the Horrific Public Outrage ploy: 300 innocent civilians die needlessly, etc. The usual false flag drama, again. Bad guys here are eventually the Russians. Okay. We know that one.

But suppose that strategy is old news and, for the sake of argument, they were double dipping instead. Consider the High Value Assassination/Plan B takeout: Kill a key NWO opponent (this has considerable precedent) and blame the other guys anyway. This also has a considerable historic track record.

In the second case, eliminating Putin would undoubtedly please a lot of people of a certain type: he’s foiled their war on Syria, the attacks on Iran, sponsored the new BRICS world bank/currency alternative, is cozy with China – the list goes on. And if they could do that and blame the patsy Ukraine government or the Russians themselves.... Merde! (pardon....) Double! And just imagine the leaderless and destabilizing pandemonium in Russia with Putin’s death! Perfect! No matter how the fallout plays out, they will have gotten rid of a major “problem” even if they don’t trigger WW3 this time.

But mistakes (or white hats?) do happen. Suppose one of Putin’s KGB friends/double agents pulled strings and the Malaysia flight just happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time? Suppose, just for the sake of argument, again, that those military jets were tricked into using MH as a DECOY, spoofed into escorting it as Putin’s plane? And the Ukrainian/Russian/whomever forces were fooled into shooting down the ‘wrong’ Putin plane, by whatever means.... Of course the naive shooters would have been told the plane was loaded with... whatever.

Trickery? Lies? Nah. Nobody would ever do a thing like that, would they?

Just speculating.

Cheers,

Selene

Impressive... I never thought of that scenario, but it makes sense... and the one thing that the Russians didn't ask was about the Spanish Air Traffic Controller and why the Ukrainian Fighters were escorting the MH17

[Cidersomerset]

That reminds me, I was going to look into what Dr. Steve Pieczenik's ((INTEL)) was on MH17..?

Alex Jones said he is going to get Dr. Steve Pieczenik's on the show
to talk about the crash a couple of days ago. I cannot find anything yet...



===================================================


http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/sitelogos/logo_mol.gif

Two cabin crew refused to fly on doomed plane over war zone safety fears: Senior
pilots and cabin crew flagged concerns about flight path weeks before tragedy

Airline staff refused to fly over airspace deeming it too dangerous

Two Ukrainian planes, a fighter jet and a transport aircraft, shot down by rebels on
the flight path

BA, all US airlines, Lufthansa, Air France and Qantas already avoid war zone in Ukraine

By Simon Parry and Simon Murphy

Published: 22:15, 19 July 2014 | Updated: 11:57, 20 July 2014

Two cabin crew swapped shifts so they would not be on the doomed Malaysian
airliner downed by a missile in eastern Ukraine, after raising concerns about the
safety of flying over the war zone.

Other senior pilots and cabin crew had flagged up fears about the flightpath in the
weeks leading up to the tragedy, although Malaysia Airlines last night denied
ignoring crew concerns.

Some staff are reported to have refused to fly over the airspace where the
passenger airliner was downed because they deemed it to be too volatile and
dangerous, especially after two Ukrainian planes, a fighter jet and a transport
aircraft, were shot down by rebels.

According to well-placed Malaysia Airlines sources, at least two cabin crew swapped
shifts so they would not be on MH17, specifically because they were worried about
the flightpath. The Mail on Sunday has been told worried pilots consulted air traffic
controllers in Malaysia and also made an informal approach to the International
Civil Aviation Organisation (ICAO). But still Malaysia Airlines did not divert the
route, unlike other carriers.

British Airways as well as all US airlines, Lufthansa, Air France and Qantas, were
already avoiding the war zone in Ukraine, adding an extra 20 minutes’ flight time,
and there is growing pressure on Malaysia Airlines to explain why it did not follow suit.


Asiana Airlines, another company avoiding the war zone, said: ‘Although the detour
adds to flight time and cost, we have been making the detour for safety.’ Last
night, civil aviation analyst Chris Yates backed up the pilots’ concerns, saying: ‘My
view is that wherever there is a conflict zone, then above that conflict zone the
airspace should be closed.

‘Any time that you have civil strife or military strife ongoing in a military area, my
opinion is that airspace should be closed until the situation clears up. Why take the
risk? The bottom line is: Passengers on flights need to stay safe.’


Ismail Nasarudd, the president of the National Union of Flight Attendants in
Malaysia said yesterday that serious questions needed to be asked about how the
passenger jet was allowed to fly over the war zone.

Mr Nasarudd, who said that he was not aware of any union members who had
raised concerns about flying in the airspace, added: ‘We are very angry and upset
that this has happened. The International Civil Aviation Organisation had given the
green light for aircraft to fly over that airspace above 32,000ft and other airlines
were doing so.


‘We need to know whether the International Civil Aviation Organisation was aware
of a risk of flying in that airspace and, if it was, why it made the decision to allow
flights. We also want to know whether Malaysia Airlines was specifically targeted.’

The British Civil Aviation Authority had warned operators to take caution in the
Donetsk area but Eurocontrol, the EU authority, and the International Civil Aviation
Organisation had not imposed a ban on flying through the zone.

A Malaysia Airlines spokesman said last night: ‘No crew members have discussed
any concerns about flying over Ukraine.

‘Malaysia Airlines, along with many other airlines, has been flying in this airspace,
which was declared safe by ICAO and IATA.

He added: ‘150 airlines each day were using the same air corridor.’


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2698579/Two-cabin-crew-refused-fly-doomed-plane-war-zone-safety-fears-Senior-pilots-cabin-crew-flagged-concerns-flight-path-weeks-tragedy.html#ixzz38229nOev
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

[Hervé]

Merkel, Putin agree on international probe of MH17 crash (http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2014/07/19/merkel-putin-agree-on-international-probe-of-mh17-crash/)

By Agence France-Presse, Saturday, July 19, 2014 10:21 EDT

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/photo_1342444598530-1-0-512x345.jpg

German Chancellor Angela Merkel and Russian President Vladimir Putin have agreed for an international investigation into the downing of a Malaysian Airlines plane over Ukraine, Berlin said on Saturday.

The two leaders, who spoke on the telephone, “agreed that an international, independent commission under the direction of ICAO (UN’s International Civil Aviation Organization) should quickly have access to the site of the accident… to shed light on the circumstances of the crash and move the victims,” said a German government statement.

A Kremlin statement on the same phone call said that “both sides stressed the importance of a thorough and objective investigation of all circumstances relating to what has happened” and said Merkel gave a “positive assessment of Russia’s readiness to send its representative to participate in the investigation.”

The two leaders also agreed that a contact group comprising Ukraine, Russia and the OSCE should meet “quickly” with the aim of reaching a ceasefire in the conflict between Kiev and the pro-Moscow rebels in eastern Ukraine, said the German government statement.

“The chancellor once again asked President Putin to exercise his influence over the separatists in order to reach this objective,” it said.

In a possible barrier to further talks, however, the Kremlin statement said the contact group should include separatist representatives, a move opposed by Kiev.

[GoodETxSG]

Who knows, if it is determined that the missile was fired from the Ukraine Forces it will be said that a Russian Backed Rebel infiltrated the battery and fired the missile... or the missile was stolen from the battery and fired from the rebel held battery and some genius hacked the the hardware & memory on both battery systems to change the Missile SN Fire/No Fire information... :doh:

The Missile Serial Number has not been traced to any Device at this point... That is why the "Rebel's" have guarantee'd the safety of an International Crash Inspection Team and why the Ukraine has been redacting all kinds of material from the record and taking control of the Tower Tapes etc...

Putin and the so called leader of the Rebels has requested that not only the Rebels but the Ukraine's entire stock of missiles w/serial numbers be open for inspection. Medium Level SAM Systems are not something an untrained team can operate and successfully hit a target at 33K Feet. It is really pointless trying to convince people that have bought the party propaganda but not uncommon as everyone is conditioned to do so. The Launch Vehicle that was captured can be easily inspected and the EPROM keeps a log of all SN's of missiles fired and all millise SN's are strictly logged in a chain of command from the manufacturer, vendor to the field.

All of the information in the MSM and Alt Media is being manipulated right now like crazy... I have close friends from the region and get first hand reports of what is going on. what is being reported is not what is happening... the civilian death toll is much higher than reported and these are not armed civilians but people (Families) hunkered down in their homes being hit by mortars.

Many of the reports supposed to be from the "Rebels" such as recorded phone calls, intercepted radio transmissions, photo's/video's and propaganda pamphlet's are all standard "Counter Intel Packages" that are easy to create and deliver. The complexity of the package depends on the Command/Control Structure of the target and the "Fog of War" aspects. If you can plant a story and it flies for 3 days or more with out a rebuttal from the command of the target then the lack of response sells the story no matter how hard they try to fight the story in the future when they are not busy dodging mortar shells and air craft bombs. That is how the game is played. And WE THE PUBLIC are the suckers and more often than not buy the stories HOOK LINE & SINKER!

From one of the articles I posted in my first post on this thread... You are not going to "Get it" from the outside looking in no matter how hard you try or how much propaganda your watch or read from either side. If you do not have sources on the ground that you trust you can and are only speculating.

TEN QUESTIONS FOR THE UKRAINIAN AUTHORITIES

1. Immediately after the tragedy, the Ukrainian authorities, naturally, blamed it on the self-defense forces. What are these accusations based on?

2. Can Kiev explain in detail how it uses Buk missile launchers in the conflict zone? And why were these systems deployed there in the first place, seeing as the self-defense forces don’t have any planes?

3. Why are the Ukrainian authorities not doing anything to set up an international commission? When will such a commission begin its work?

4. Would the Ukrainian Armed Forces be willing to let international investigators see the inventory of their air-to-air and surface-to-air missiles, including those used in SAM launchers?

5. Will the international commission have access to tracking data from reliable sources regarding the movements of Ukrainian warplanes on the day of the tragedy?

6. Why did Ukrainian air traffic controllers allow the plane to deviate from the regular route to the north, towards “the anti-terrorist operation zone”?

7. Why was airspace over the warzone not closed for civilian flights, especially since the area was not entirely covered by radar navigation systems?

8. How can official Kiev comment on reports in the social media, allegedly by a Spanish air traffic controller who works in Ukraine, that there were two Ukrainian military planes flying alongside the Boeing 777 over Ukrainian territory?

9. Why did Ukraine’s Security Service start working with the recordings of communications between Ukrainian air traffic controllers and the Boeing crew and with the data storage systems from Ukrainian radars without waiting for international investigators?

10. What lessons has Ukraine learned from a similar incident in 2001, when a Russian Tu-154 crashed into the Black Sea? Back then, the Ukrainian authorities denied any involvement on the part of Ukraine’s Armed Forces until irrefutable evidence proved official Kiev to be guilty.

EDIT: As BRICS is being setup and the CABAL'S Western Economy and Scheme crumbles at their feet... and they see that their crimes against humanity will be exposed they are desperate... They do not plan on going down alone. They have "Green Lit" programs like this all over the world against BRICS Allied Nations...

[sigma6]

Putin is not perfect, far from it.... but like Bill Ryan said, he's done a lot of good things for Russia. In fact, my views about him changed while watching the Olympics because I saw someone who literally moved mountains to make that event happen and I was even a little annoyed that most of the Western leaders in the world didn't show up for the opening ceremony.

He's worked hard to gain the respect and trust of leaders all over the world and he managed to even do that too. So, how can one dislike someone like this? Someone who marches to his own drummer yet, at the same time has been willing to be diplomatic and compromise on various important issues with world leaders just for the sake of peace and harmony so long as it didn't leave Russia with the short end of the stick.

Just saying that I understand his appeal and why so many out there really do have much respect for him.

I also feel sad that this incident happened because it's going to stop a good, competent leader from completing his mission which is to bring Russia back to its former glory. I really, really thought he was going to do that but now, that's not going to happen and I'm sad about that.

Is it his fault? Yes, because he didn't take those precautions necessary to make sure that he/Russia would not be framed in any way, shape or form by his enemies due to what's been going on in Ukraine.

At any rate, as the day wore on I came to the point where I am now that he/Russia was framed to make it seem like they were the ones who shot down that commercial airline. There are a few scenario's that would allow something like that to happen but I don't think that someone like Putin would intentionally allow anything like that to happen -- and in fact, it goes against everything that he stands for. He would never jeopardize Russia's standing in the world political theater by doing something like that. It goes against everything he stands for... right down to the core of his very being.

Russia is not the guilty party in this incident...


It's not over til the fat lady sings... I don't see the West coming out on top, just a series of blips on the screen. Like Alex Jones said, CNN doesn't even have any real ratings anymore, it's just a strawman pretend News network, to hide the fact that nobody is watching or believing it (and pity the sad 100,000 or so who are still watching it...) The US is on some kind of self destruct path, which is really the result of a bunch of stubborn leaders on a ship they have fleeced all the holdings for themselves and they have crashed it purposely on the shores because they don't want to hand over the reigns. I think Fulford has it right (can't wait to hear his analysis on this one!) We are going to see more terrorist attacks and False Flags. But this one is crucial. I think the Cabal will live and die on this one. If they can get the world to believe this BS... They can drag out the terror and cause more destruction.

On the other hand if the world wakes up and calls them out... Then this could be the last straw. This is just another US political campaign. As dirty and palm greased as it gets... But clearly there does seem to be some amazing timing. Blow up another Malaysian 777, blame it on the Russians to buy the US/Ukraine some face, while Israel skulks into Gaza and kills people indiscriminately, while the media circus focused the camera lights on Eastern Ukraine...

It's ingenious... but is it going to work... These people are getting more desperate, and making more mistakes, and becoming more difficult to believe...

And I can't stand to watch Obama now, just the sight of him makes me sick... And all the US officials seem like the creepiest bunch of scum bags that ever walked the earth. I don't know which stench is worse what come from them or the already dead bodies planted on the faked MH17... (note huge insinuation inserted here... see anyone can do this... ;)

[sigma6]

He does look rather puppety, but with Kerry there (the Cabal puppet) It makes him look more real...
You can imagine the surreal nature of one puppet welcoming another puppet with promises of power and riches
in exchange for killing a few of your countrymen... moo hoo hahahahahaa!!!
and the promise of a skull and bones wrist watch, waterproof up to 33 feet..

http://cms.kienthuc.net.vn/uploaded/lenam/2014_04_29/nhanquyen_kienthuc_4703_tzpb.jpg

[Zionbrion]

I wonder what this has to do with all of the current events.


http://rt.com/usa/169700-cryptome-war-snowden-docs/

​All of the National Security Agency files accessed by former contractor Edward Snowden could be published in the month of July if vaguely worded predictions tweeted this week from the digital library site Cryptome prove to be correct.

A series of micro-messages published by the website — a portal for sharing sensitive documents that predates WikiLeaks by a decade — suggest further Snowden leaks may be on the way.

“During July all Snowden docs released” reads an excerpt from one Cryptome tweet sent on Monday this week. “July is when war begins unless headed off by Snowden full release of crippling intel. After war begins not a chance of release,” reads another tweet sent from Cryptome on Monday this week. “Only way war can be avoided. Warmongerers [sic] are on a rampage. So, yes, citizens holding Snowden docs will do the right thing,” insists another.

[sigma6]

Yet it could be another interesting puzzle to our jigsaw.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1fytpEF6-EQ&list=UUFjOi1ZpZVErr8EYxg8t1dQ

BUMP... If this is a legitimate video, then this is HUGE. WHAT IF... This whole thing is a false flag? What if this was remoted control crashed, and THEN blown up?... Daboo make an EXCELLENT point of view, if this was shot in the sky the parts and bodies would be strewn over miles.... HOLY SMOKES...

I take this back, apparently they say it was strewn over miles, but that made think of something else. Have noticed most all of the video shots, none ever really pan back and show the whole stretch of the wreckage? And there are so many propaganda fake pictures, of the perfectly unburnt childrens toys and expired passports. And even the wreckage, you never get to see it within a wider larger context. A real panoramic shot... just saying...

Anyhow this supposed photo being taken itself is suspect. What are the odds, and it is one of those phony movie angle shots of something over the horizon, that plays more on your mind's suggestion... really there is NOTHING in it... but smoke (no mirrors)

[SilentFeathers]

Some interesting language in this interview...

6QOPOdstx-4

[ThePythonicCow]

As I read the above Global Research (http://www.globalresearch.ca/was-ukraines-ministry-of-interior-behind-the-downing-of-malaysian-airlines-mh17/5391909) report, it claims that the Ukraine government in Kiev (but not the "Russian separatists") did have the Buk surface-to-air missile used in the shoot down, did force flight MH17 off course and into range of their missile batteries using a fighter escort, and did know about the downing almost the same time as when the air traffic controllers lost contact.

Moreover, either the Kiev government or the bastards controlling them (some combination of the Bush Crime Cabal and/or the World Zionists, the latter of whom invaded the Gaza strip hours later) did have good reason to "benefit" from a European commercial airliner being shot down over eastern ("separatist") Ukraine using Russian missiles. On the other hand, neither the Russians nor the "separatists" benefited from the shoot down, and neither had the means (control of Buk launchers in eastern Ukraine.)

Paul Craig Roberts has some excellent observations, at What Happened to the Malaysian Airliner? (Infowars.com) (http://www.infowars.com/what-happened-to-the-malaysian-airliner/) that are consistent with the above conclusions. Here a couple of excerpts:


One Russian general familiar with the weapon system offered his opinion that it was a mistake made by the Ukrainian military untrained in the weapon’s use. The general said that although Ukraine has a few of the weapons, Ukrainians have had no training in their use in the 23 years since Ukraine separated from Russia. The general thinks it was an accident due to incompetence.

This explanation makes a certain amount of sense and far more sense than Washington’s propaganda. The problem with the general’s explanation is that it does not explain why the Buk anti-aircraft missile system was deployed near or in a separatist territory. The separatists have no aircraft. It seems odd for Ukraine to have an expensive missile system in an area in which it is of no military use and where the position could be overrun and captured by separatists.


... the only conclusion is that the entire news cycle pertaining to the downing of the Malaysian airliner is orchestrated in order to lay the blame on Putin.

Let me restate what Roberts observes.


The "separatists" in the eastern Ukraine do not have airplanes and do not have high altitude anti-aircraft missiles. They have low altitude shoulder fired anti-aircraft missiles, which they have been firing at aircraft of the Kiev government. The Kiev government does have high flying planes, and does have some high altitude Russian made Buk anti-aircraft missiles, and they had positioned and were operating those launchers in eastern Ukraine in the days prior to the downing of MH17. The Kiev government did not need these Buk missiles to fight the "separatists", because the "separatists" don't have planes. It would be folly in the extreme to place a high value weapon that is of no use to you against your enemy, but that might be of use to your enemy against you, in or near enemy or contested territory (unless your objective was something else).
The reaction of the US and its UK ally to the downing of MH17 was prepared ahead of time to blame Russia.
The beneficiaries of this downing were [a] Israel (moving their invasion of Gaza from being the primary and exclusive leading news article to being the second news event reported, after the downing of MH17), and [b] the US and its allies (garnering European and domestic support against Putin, and potentially even appearing as an act of war against Putin, trying to force him to respond with greater force.)

I find these points, especially my point (1) above, to be quite compelling.

[Jake]

Some interesting language in this interview...

6QOPOdstx-4

From one side of his lying mouth,, Kerry calls the separatists highly trained tactical troops, experts in surface to ground missile systems... Out of the other corner of his lying mouth,,, Kerry calls them 'literally drunken soldiers',, disrespecting dead bodies... Which is it, Kerry??? Drunk Russian Separatists,, or highly trained experts in surface to air missile systems??? If Kerry gave a damn about violence and death across border,,, he would openly condemn Israel and the genocide taking place in the middle east!! We are witnessing the many different heads of the beast... MSM is the propaganda arm of the 'War Machine',, the military industrial complex,, and its need to survive and grow... President Eisenhower tried to warn us....

Jake.

[Selene]

To return to the OP, :focus: speaking as a frequent traveller with more than my share of international flights, the real smoking gun is those pristine, unbent, unruffled boarding passes.

For an international flight, the security screening is repeated and extensive, even if you go directly from check-in to your gate. No way in hell a used boarding pass will look like those after several hours of being stuffed into a pocket or carryon, being repeatedly scanned, read, checked, handled, observed and security screened. And once you've boarded, that pass gets casually stuffed away into your pocket or carryon.

No way. Another rat squeals....

Regards,

Selene

[ThePythonicCow]

Did you actually know anything about the conflict before this crash?
Could you kindly spend less time questioning the knowledge of other members and less time heaping scorn on the foolishness of some of the web commentators, and rather spend more time providing the best evidence and analysis you can find or provide?

An excess of scorn can cloud the discussion.

[truth4me]

Well since people are catching on to false flags in America why not a Russian false flag? Seems they are getting ready to jump start WW3.

[SilentFeathers]

Some interesting language in this interview...

6QOPOdstx-4

From one side of his lying mouth,, Kerry calls the separatists highly trained tactical troops, experts in surface to ground missile systems... Out of the other corner of his lying mouth,,, Kerry calls them 'literally drunken soldiers',, disrespecting dead bodies... Which is it, Kerry??? Drunk Russian Separatists,, or highly trained experts in surface to air missile systems??? If Kerry gave a damn about violence and death across border,,, he would openly condemn Israel and the genocide taking place in the middle east!! We are witnessing the many different heads of the beast... MSM is the propaganda arm of the 'War Machine',, the military industrial complex,, and its need to survive and grow... President Eisenhower tried to warn us....

Jake.

Kerry would probably be more believable if he had Susan Rice sitting beside him backing him up!

[joeecho]

.......... Deleted ..........

[ThePythonicCow]

Kerry would probably be more believable if he had Susan Rice sitting beside him backing him up!
Given Kerry's reliable capacity to take the opposite side of an issue from the truth, all I can conclude from listening to him is that Russia is innocent ?).

[Centauri]

Russia doesn't need a war to help establish the new currency. You just sit back and watch the collapse of the petrodollar at that point. A war would only complicate and destroy that process. I'm not sure why you think Russia would benefit from starting a war. Especially since all the aggression is coming from the United States/Israel in the news, the actions in Syria, the support of neo-nazis in Ukraine, and the fear that their little strangle-hold on the world economy is coming to a very obvious end.

I'm going to go a little weird here (and why not since this IS Project Avalon), but it seems like China and Russia were confronted by positive offworlder intervention to force them to turn over a new leaf. Even these people who were once associated with some pretty messed-up decisions can change for the good. Especially when the future ony holds the destruction of humanity if the current power structure continues on.

[joeecho]

There appears to be a heads or tails divide on this messed up tragedy here. Sure, there is a tendency to call out one side versus the other with a coin flip but don't be fooled, it is still ONE coin. The strings are being pulled for 'both' side by the puppet master(s).

[SilentFeathers]

Kerry would probably be more believable if he had Susan Rice sitting beside him backing him up!
Given Kerry's reliable capacity to take the opposite side of an issue from the truth, all I can conclude from listening to him is that Russia is innocent ?).

I'm curious to see how they'll play out the data on the black boxes now, especially if this jet was being diverted from an original flight course and being trailed by fighters...surely the pilots would of said something damning before being blown up. I bet the hypocrites are scrambling to get their hands on these black boxes (notice Kerry nor any one else doing everything they can to controlling the narrative are even mentioning a thing about these black boxes?)

[ThePythonicCow]

I bet the hypocrites are scrambling to get their hands on these black boxes
Yup - part of the "proper and thorough" (or whatever such words he used) investigation that Kerry wants - control the evidence and control the narrative.

[SilentFeathers]

I bet the hypocrites are scrambling to get their hands on these black boxes
Yup - part of the "proper and thorough" (or whatever such words he used) investigation that Kerry wants - control the evidence and control the narrative.

Is Russia the new Iran? Is Putin the new Osama Bin Laden, the new boogeyman. My what a web "they" weave....and we are all in some form or fashion caught in this web waiting for the "spider" to get us!

[Roisin]

Kerry would probably be more believable if he had Susan Rice sitting beside him backing him up!
Given Kerry's reliable capacity to take the opposite side of an issue from the truth, all I can conclude from listening to him is that Russia is innocent ?).

No, he said that "the plane shot itself down" or that it was hit by a lightning bolt but which ever one they decide on, they will be sure to keep us abreast of any new updates. :nerd:

---
This is going to fizzle out and the real perpetrator of this atrocity is going to get away with it, scot free. As for Putin, they're afraid of him, very afraid. Especially now.

[LoneWolf76]

this video is the smoking gun!

....it tells you that you should never ever watch this guy's videos again.

he is either really unintelligent or deliberately distorting the truth to make it sensational. all he wants is to get more views for his videos because he gets paid for this. I personally think he is very smart and is using all the dirty triks into foolling people - he has 93000 subscribers :confused:

so... first, kenzo is a fashion firm and I searched for the tshirt online, you can easily find it

https://www.google.com/search?q=kenzo+eye+flag+sweater&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=96bLU_PQDYm9ygP27oHAAw&ved=0CAgQ_AUoAQ&biw=1097&bih=546

secondly, the thing about the osce investigators could get to the crash because the media can shows that he knows absolutely nothing about the ukraine conflict and actually any conflict in general.

next, the intact passports... the plane was hit by a radar homing missile, not a heat seaking missile. so the missile could have hit the plane anywhere, instead of the engines.
(the video of the crash shows that there is no smoke in the sky, smoke only appears when the part of the plane containing the fuel hits the ground.)
the plane probably broke into pieces before hitting the ground (debris are spread along 15 km) and you can clearly see that from the imediate crash site footage. there is the part of the crash site that caught fire on ground impact and some other parts of the plane that fell out of the sky were almost intact. so the passports could have either been inside hand-luggage from the area of the plane that broke off, either actually fell from the sky when the plane did break. there are reports of even bodies falling from the sky.

Also... he implies that the event is aimed against russia. So how come the pro-russian rebels that are in control of the area (the ones that found the passports and have been managing the crash site from the first moment) are trying to frame russia by planting passports?? the fact that they are taking them out of the back of a truck is absolute proof? isn't it possible that guys were combing the 15 km area finding different pieces of luggage and handing them over to their commander - and he showed them to the press from his truck? Nothing makes any sense in this video and I actually find it as an offense to his viewers' judgement.

Videos like this are really unproductive. Instead of discussing the real facts and trying to find out what trully happened he is only going to shy away any intelligent people from all alternative media.


First, this is a MASSIVE distraction from Gaza, only an international disaster like this could really do it. Football over, nothing else for people to get emotional about. And make no mistake, it's an emotional reponse they want. People do not make rational sane decisions when they are emotional. When the Boston Bombing hoax was all over the news, it was an emotional reponse, but in the cold light of day, when you actually examine the pictures and the detail, such obvious fakery is almost laughable.

DON'T FORGET ABOUT GAZA!!

Second, the passports. There is no way all these passports could have gone through that crash with no damage at all! In fact, not only are they not burned or damaged, they don't look like they have ever been used, they are pristine! Smells like 9/11 to me, the "perfect passports" that made it through the twin towers and floated gently to the ground, just in time to identify the alleged terrorists reponsible... Hmmm...

Third, a story is emerging of some "victims" who appear to know that this is is, they won't be coming back. Whatever the reason, which I won't go into now due to it just being a hunch, 2 stewardesses engaged in what I would call "telling behaviour" before they left.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/malaysia/10977752/Please-look-after-my-dog-MH17-victims-last-words-to-her-family.html

http://www.themalaymailonline.com/malaysia/article/grieving-husband-of-mh17-stewardess-recalls-wifes-strange-last-words

http://www.thestar.com.my/News/Nation/2014/07/18/Mh17-crash-Nur-Shazana/

And as for Dahboo's 93000 followers, it's because he's mostly on the money. He's been threatened too to shut up. You know you over the target when the flak starts flyin'!

[Jake]

Kerry would probably be more believable if he had Susan Rice sitting beside him backing him up!
Given Kerry's reliable capacity to take the opposite side of an issue from the truth, all I can conclude from listening to him is that Russia is innocent ?).

No, he said that "the plane shot itself down" or that it was hit by a lightning bolt but which ever one they decide on, they will be sure to keep us abreast of any new updates. :nerd:

My question to John Kerry: Was flight 17 diverted over a warzone to avoid a dangerous cloud of swamp gas emanating from Uranus??? Sorry for the insanely obtuse angle... :(

Jake.

[GoodETxSG]

NZwythZvgeg

[Selene]

Merkel, Putin agree on international probe of MH17 crash (http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2014/07/19/merkel-putin-agree-on-international-probe-of-mh17-crash/)

By Agence France-Presse, Saturday, July 19, 2014 10:21 EDT

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/photo_1342444598530-1-0-512x345.jpg

German Chancellor Angela Merkel and Russian President Vladimir Putin have agreed for an international investigation into the downing of a Malaysian Airlines plane over Ukraine, Berlin said on Saturday.

The two leaders, who spoke on the telephone, “agreed that an international, independent commission under the direction of ICAO (UN’s International Civil Aviation Organization) should quickly have access to the site of the accident… to shed light on the circumstances of the crash and move the victims,” said a German government statement.

A Kremlin statement on the same phone call said that “both sides stressed the importance of a thorough and objective investigation of all circumstances relating to what has happened” and said Merkel gave a “positive assessment of Russia’s readiness to send its representative to participate in the investigation.”

The two leaders also agreed that a contact group comprising Ukraine, Russia and the OSCE should meet “quickly” with the aim of reaching a ceasefire in the conflict between Kiev and the pro-Moscow rebels in eastern Ukraine, said the German government statement.

“The chancellor once again asked President Putin to exercise his influence over the separatists in order to reach this objective,” it said.

In a possible barrier to further talks, however, the Kremlin statement said the contact group should include separatist representatives, a move opposed by Kiev.

Merkel taking Putin’s side. Interesting.

Germany of late has had ample reason to feel burned by US intelligence/NSA screw-overs. But an open break with the “official” US storyline here seems to me to indicate a significant reshuffling of allegiances within the G20.

In the same way that England (for the first time in their history) refused to go along with a US-led war in Syria, another major player is now saying ‘no’ to the US agenda. More and more opposition is coming out of hiding.

Interesting times, these.

Cheers,

Selene

[SilentFeathers]

Merkel, Putin agree on international probe of MH17 crash (http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2014/07/19/merkel-putin-agree-on-international-probe-of-mh17-crash/)

By Agence France-Presse, Saturday, July 19, 2014 10:21 EDT

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/photo_1342444598530-1-0-512x345.jpg

German Chancellor Angela Merkel and Russian President Vladimir Putin have agreed for an international investigation into the downing of a Malaysian Airlines plane over Ukraine, Berlin said on Saturday.

The two leaders, who spoke on the telephone, “agreed that an international, independent commission under the direction of ICAO (UN’s International Civil Aviation Organization) should quickly have access to the site of the accident… to shed light on the circumstances of the crash and move the victims,” said a German government statement.

A Kremlin statement on the same phone call said that “both sides stressed the importance of a thorough and objective investigation of all circumstances relating to what has happened” and said Merkel gave a “positive assessment of Russia’s readiness to send its representative to participate in the investigation.”

The two leaders also agreed that a contact group comprising Ukraine, Russia and the OSCE should meet “quickly” with the aim of reaching a ceasefire in the conflict between Kiev and the pro-Moscow rebels in eastern Ukraine, said the German government statement.

“The chancellor once again asked President Putin to exercise his influence over the separatists in order to reach this objective,” it said.

In a possible barrier to further talks, however, the Kremlin statement said the contact group should include separatist representatives, a move opposed by Kiev.

Merkel taking Putin’s side. Interesting.

Germany of late has had ample reason to feel burned by US intelligence/NSA screw-overs. But an open break with the “official” US storyline here seems to me to indicate a significant reshuffling of allegiances within the G20.

In the same way that England (for the first time in their history) refused to go along with a US-led war in Syria, another major player is now saying ‘no’ to the US agenda. More and more opposition is coming out of hiding.

Interesting times, these.

Cheers,

Selene

It's called, "The Curly Shuffle"

FKAfXdb5LsA

[sirdipswitch]

Seems to me the video is doing its' job quite nicely.

Why get so all fired up over pure Speculation?????????????????????????????????????

[Selene]

“US says recordings of Ukraine rebels admitting MH17 downing 'authentic'”
http://zeenews.india.com/news/world/live-malaysia-airlines-jet-veered-off-flight-path-to-avoid-thunderstorms_948717.html

Yeah, sure. This despite excellent research showing that the recordings were created before the plane went down… The script rolls on.


Alleged intercepted phone conversations released by Ukraine's security service of pro-Russian rebels discussing how they shot down Malaysian airliner MH17 are genuine, the US embassy in Kiev said.


"Audio data provided to the press by the Ukrainian security service was evaluated by Intelligence Community analysts who confirmed these were authentic conversations between known separatist leaders," the US embassy in Ukraine said in a statement.

Cheers,

Selene

http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d200/Selenewho/yourIQtestsarenegative_zpsf795c68f.jpg (http://s35.photobucket.com/user/Selenewho/media/yourIQtestsarenegative_zpsf795c68f.jpg.html)

[Agape]

Some of these Questions are answered in the Dr. Steve Pieczenik's post 'above your OP...:yes4:

http://www.bbc.com/news/business-28380634

Forbes Media sold to Chinese group Integrated Whale


After 97 years of family ownership, Forbes Media has announced it has sold a majority stake in the company to a Hong Kong-based group of international investors.

Forbes Media - which includes Forbes magazine - was sold to Integrated Whale Media Investments for an undisclosed sum.

The Forbes family said it would still have a "significant" stake.

Steve Forbes will remain as chairman and editor-in-chief.

"While today marks a fundamental turning point in this 97-year-old company founded by my grandfather, it should be seen as an opportunity to continue and strengthen our mission," said Mr Forbes in a blog post announcing the sale.

Forbes - which says it reaches 75 million people worldwide every month through its print, digital, TV, conferences and research ventures - began looking for a buyer last November.

Forbes will continue to be headquartered in the US, but announced plans for an international expansion.


I'd make another bad joke here but don't think it suits me well .

Is there anything these people can not afford to buy ? Me for example ..

:angel:

[Daphne]

Did you actually know anything about the conflict before this crash?
Could you kindly spend less time questioning the knowledge of other members and less time heaping scorn on the foolishness of some of the web commentators, and rather spend more time providing the best evidence and analysis you can find or provide?

An excess of scorn can cloud the discussion.

Thanks Paul. I am feeling quite chastised.

[Selene]

More spin from the Spin Machine:


Malaysia Airlines jet MH17, that was shot down over eastern Ukraine's war zone, deviated from its normal flight path to avoid thunderstorms, a top aviation official from the European Cockpit Association told the Mirror.

"I heard that they were diverting from some showers... I think there were thunderclouds. You would ask air traffic control to divert left or right, and they would give you the permission," Nico Voorbach, president of the European Cockpit Association, was quoted as saying by the Mirror.

"I think there were thunderclouds. You would ask air traffic control to divert left or right, and they would give you the permission."
http://zeenews.india.com/news/world/live-malaysia-airlines-jet-veered-off-flight-path-to-avoid-thunderstorms_948717.html


Weather diversion, huh? This claim despite other evidence that the flight path change was known to crew before the flight departed and that two crew members refused to fly over a war zone, and had time to switch their place on the flight roster.


Two cabin crew swapped shifts so they would not be on the doomed Malaysian airliner downed by a missile in eastern Ukraine, after raising concerns about the safety of flying over the war zone.

Other senior pilots and cabin crew had flagged up fears about the flight path in the weeks leading up to the tragedy, although Malaysia Airlines last night denied ignoring crew concerns.

Some staff are reported to have refused to fly over the airspace where the passenger airliner was downed because they deemed it to be too volatile and dangerous, especially after two Ukrainian planes, a fighter jet and a transport aircraft, were shot down by rebels.


According to well-placed Malaysia Airlines sources, at least two cabin crew swapped shifts so they would not be on MH17, specifically because they were worried about the flight path. The Mail on Sunday has been told worried pilots consulted air traffic controllers in Malaysia and also made an informal approach to the International Civil Aviation Organisation (ICAO).

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2698579/Two-cabin-crew-refused-fly-doomed-plane-war-zone-safety-fears-Senior-pilots-cabin-crew-flagged-concerns-flight-path-weeks-tragedy.html#ixzz38229nOev

The planned-ahead flight deviation also smacks of a lot of pre-flight skullduggery, a highly planned op. But no, we’ve got to make this look like “an accident”, don’t we?

http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d200/Selenewho/whatever_zps7411b1b4.jpg (http://s35.photobucket.com/user/Selenewho/media/whatever_zps7411b1b4.jpg.html)

Cheers,

Selene

[Tesseract]

There is a very good reason why Kiev has deployed AA batteries to the east of the country. To shoot down any Russian aircraft that may launch air strikes against their positions. Russia has made repeated claims it will protect Russian speakers in Ukraine from the fascist regime in Kiev, and it seems like Kiev has tried to provoke them into doing just that, since Kiev has blatantly used helicopter gunships, artillery, heavy weapons, jets and tanks against the Russian speakers in the east. And just recently you had someone killed inside of Russia by a Ukrainian artillery shell. I suspected that Russia would make some limited air strikes inside of eastern Ukraine. There would have been precedent, given Israeli air strikes into Egypt, Turkish airstrikes into Syria and so on. However, such strikes never eventuated despite the massacres that have occurred. However, the threat of them did remain and I think it made sense for Kiev to take precautions by moving AA systems into position.

[Roisin]

I was just reading one of the links Paul posted, here it is, http://www.infowars.com/what-happened-to-the-malaysian-airliner/, and the thought occurred to me that the "rebels" were boasting in their tweets, that have since been deleted, that they had just shot down a Ukraine transport plane. According to a number of sources, that's what they thought they shot down only to find out later that they instead shot down a commercial airliner. This according to some mainstream news sources.

That the article in that link states that the rebel's did not have a Buk, therefore, they were not the ones who shot the plane down. But supposing they really did shoot down a Ukraine transport plane using their own shoulder missiles as a transport planes flew by at a lower altitude. But in reality it was not an actual transport plane at all but a hologram of one instead?

But then, once they got to the area where they thought the plane crashed down , instead of seeing a crash site of a transport plane, they see a crash site of a commercial airliner instead!

Could it be that the whole thing was planned out ahead of time and that both aircraft were shot down almost simultaneously only the commercial airliner, which was at a much higher altitude at 33,000 ft, was shot down by someone else with a Buk... like the Ukrainians, for example?

Also, maybe the transport plane they thought they shot down was not a hologram but a real decoy transport plane from the Ukraine. Maybe once a rebel shot at it, it went into a stall with smoke coming out of it to add to the effect, of a fake "hit" and "crash". So the whole scenario was staged by the Ukrainians to make it look like the rebel shot down the plane when, in fact, that's not what really happened. This could have occurred shortly before the commercial airliner was shot down by someone else... or shortly after.

Or maybe, that commercial airliner site they arrived at was planted there... an explosion occurred before that to alert the locals. In the meantime, shortly before this, bodies rained down on that village and so on... from another plane up there....

All of it was staged and orchestrated right down to a "T".

This could explain why the head rebel honcho thought that some of the bodies at that site looked like "old corpses". This could also explain why those passports were so intact including a lot of other objects at that site too.

[Hervé]

How misdirections keep about everyone busy down labyrinths with no exits:

Who said it was a BUK missile?

Any evidence for it beside unsubstantiated assertions?


DEBRIEFING: MH17 WAS HIT BY AA MISSILE R-73 OR R-27 THAT WAS FIRED FROM MIG-29 OR SU-27, BOTH OPERATIONAL IN UKRAINE AIR (http://www.rumormillnews.com/cgi-bin/forum.cgi?read=312787)

Posted By: IZAKOVIC [Send E-Mail (http://www.rumormillnews.com/cgi-bin/forum.cgi?bem=312787)]


Date: Sunday, 20-Jul-2014 09:09:43

In Response To: WHAT HAPPENS IF YOU HAVE SURPLUS MH370, PART 4: WHY? (http://www.rumormillnews.com/cgi-bin/forum.cgi?read=312786) (IZAKOVIC)


The story of the disaster of the Malaysian Boeing 777 en route from Amsterdam to Kuala Lumpur, acquires more and more new details


http://www.rumormillnews.com/pix7/m696411.jpg

July 20, 2014, 15:12, Photo: Andrew Stenin / RIA "Novosti"


Author: Dmitry Litovkin
http://www.vzglyad.ru/society/2014/7/20/696411.html

Following the photographs of "newcomers" and "canceled" passports of passengers, "dead accounts" in "Facebook" and the lack of response of relatives of the victims internet was flooded with photos of damage to the aircraft received as a result of a rocket attack. According to them, the attack on the craft was not from the ground but from the air, which casts doubt on any version from the Ukrainian authorities on involvement of the militia or a terrorist attack on an airplane.

The major versions of the Boeing 777 crash believed it was shot down by a missile of the air defense missile system "Buk-M1." It was caught in the clashes among the Ukrainian army and the Russian militia, it was directly owned by the Ukrainian military. Russian Defense Ministry cites radio intercepts, that show conclusive evidence that during the ill-fated day Ukrainian air defenses near Donetsk was put on full alert.

So, it was recorded, on July 17, the radar 9s18 of the "Dome" Battery SAM "Buk-M1", stationed near the village of Styla, 30 km south of Donetsk. The ministry stressed that the technical features of the complex air defense "Buk-M1" shares information about the whereabouts of air targets between the batteries of the same division. Thus, the launch of missiles could also be done with all the batteries stationed in the village Avdiyivka, 8 km north of Donetsk, or Gruzsko-Zaryanskom, 25 km east of Donetsk, the military summarized.

To date, the Internet has got photos directly from the site of the crash. On this basis, it can be assumed that the liner was not shot by "Buk" and there were those "unidentified" two fighters which are mentioned in his blog by 'Spanish' manager from Boryspil airport in Kiev.

"The anti-aircraft missiles are special combat units - told the newspaper VIEW one of the founders of the OR R-complex "Buk." So that by analyzing the aircraft wreckage it's easy to determine exactly what it was hit by. "

For example, a complex "Buk" uses anti-aircraft guided missiles 9M38M1. Their speed is 850 meters per second, the warhead has 70 kg of high explosives. It contains metal balls and is proximity-detonated near the target (40-50 meters) forming a dense cloud of rushing high speed fragments.

"When such aircraft is hit with this warhead it suffers many different holes, - says the designer. - In the fuselage, they may be small, if they hit the fuel tanks -- huge -- if the engine is hit, then nothing remains because fragments "fire" all turbine blades."

Judging by the damaged remains of the Boeing 777, the expert concludes that the aircraft was fired upon by missiles from jet fighters.


http://www.rumormillnews.com/pix7/816928.jpg


Full article: http://www.rumormillnews.com/cgi-bin/forum.cgi?read=312787

[Roisin]

:hail: Thanks Amzer Zo :becky:

[jake gittes]

To return to the OP, :focus: speaking as a frequent traveller with more than my share of international flights, the real smoking gun is those pristine, unbent, unruffled boarding passes.

For an international flight, the security screening is repeated and extensive, even if you go directly from check-in to your gate. No way in hell a used boarding pass will look like those after several hours of being stuffed into a pocket or carryon, being repeatedly scanned, read, checked, handled, observed and security screened. And once you've boarded, that pass gets casually stuffed away into your pocket or carryon.

No way. Another rat squeals....

Regards,

Selene

I agree Selene. All the passports in a single stack? Plus, the debris is so concentrated, like it was dropped from a forklift loading it onto something. (Or dumped from a dump truck.) Say you're driving along and decide suddenly to throw out a bag of groceries. The bag of groceries isn't going to be assembled all in one spot. It will be strewn over an area, based on how fast it was moving. A body in motion, etc. This stuff looks planted.

[SilentFeathers]

It'll be interesting to see where this will be by next Friday....

[airaspect]

Completely agree with Zamolxe here.

Condition of the passports do rise an eyebrow, but bare in mind that:
- passports do have an expiry date;
- quite a lot of people don't fly around the world that much;
- we can travel around the EU countries (most of them) without a passport;

therefore, some people will need to apply for a new passport before traveling. Not to look far, I, for example, would need a new passport since my old one is past it's date. So mine would be in exact same mint condition. Some of my family members had to get new ones last year for the same reason.

Also those passports were probably inside personal luggage. Does that explain everything ? As was said before, it probably depends where and how the rocket hit. Hard to say.

But saying based on that that the whole thing was an inside job is a big stretch. As i understand, the "rebels" uploaded a movie with smoke seen from afar, boasting about shooting down UK airplane. Then the movie was taken down 15 minutes later. Ukrainian gov. informed on a press release that they have recorded a phone call between a "rebel" on the scene reporting to a russian colonel and saying something like: "........ damn ..... i think it might be civilian". The area is controlled by russian "rebels". At this point i really see no reason to discredit the story, according to which russian "rebels" shot down a civil airplane by a horrible mistake.

@the debris getting transported there - well, looks terrifyingly solid to me.

@EU observers not trying to get in - they did try to get in before, in may 2014 they were taken hostage in Donieck region by the "rebels", then released after a few days. One of the observers was from Poland so we got that pretty well covered.

[syrwong]

The nation with an eagle in its emblem is the master of aviation sabotage.
Plane disaster is always great psyop. It generates more fear and arouses greater hatred in people. Besides the crime and evidence is self-destruct, propaganda with no proof is more effective. With a barrage of immediate disinformation, anyone could be convincingly blamed, any nation or group can be demonized. That’s why it is never too trite to repeat it again and again.

[Tesseract]

Although this has been a distraction from the Palestine conflict - Israel did not really need that distraction, the powerful countries of the world were going to turn a blind eye anyway. As far as Dahboo77's material goes, he does jump to conclusions, at times there is almost a formula to it. Not so long ago there was sometimes stifled laughter in his videos, which gave the impression he was taking the piss. Now he seems to be keeping himself serious. I honestly don't know where the guy is at.

Although I want to see more evidence, especially physical evidence, before making a conclusion, it is true that the mainstream theory is plausible (along with some other theories). If the mainstream theory is to be busted, there will need to be many more points of evidence than some good-condition passports and tweets from an unidentified air-traffic controller. Time will tell, I hope.

[jackovesk]

***Update***

Australian PM Tony Abbott finally talks with Putin

MH17: Tony Abbott speaks to Vladimir Putin as Australia pushes for UN support for independent investigation

July 21, 2014

Prime Minister Tony Abbott has spoken overnight on Sunday with Russian President Vladimir Putin as Australia begins gathering support for a draft United Nations Security Council resolution to condemn the shooting down of MH17 and demand an independent investigation.

Mr Abbott said on Monday morning that Mr Putin had said ''all the right things'' during their conversation overnight.

''Now he has to be as good as his word,’’ he told Macquarie Radio 2GB on Monday morning. ''And I will be speaking regularly to the Russian President to do my best to hold him to his word.''

http://images.theage.com.au/2014/07/21/5612249/VD-abbott-mh17-300x0.jpg

He said his priority was to do ''the right thing'' by the Australian victims and their families by ensuring bodies were treated with respect, the crash site was secured and a thorough investigation undertaken.

http://www.theage.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/mh17-tony-abbott-speaks-to-vladimir-putin-as-australia-pushes-for-un-support-for-independent-investigation-20140721-3c9mt.html

PS - Now I will put my 'Spidey-Sense' hat on...:yo:

http://images.onset.freedom.com/ocvarsity/blogs/ocvarsity.freedomblogging.com/spidey-sense.jpeg

After watching Tony Abbott's Live Press conference on the ABC today this is what I sensed...

Press Gallery Question: "Have you spoken with President Putin yet, if so what was discussed in the Conversation?"

Abbott: "Mr Putin had said ''all the right things'' during their conversation overnight" - "He said his priority was to do ''the right thing'' by the Australian victims and their families."


PREFACE: When watching this Live I was watching Abbotts tone, eye's & body language to see what was truly said in his telephone conversation with Putin...


After Abbott was asked the Putin question, he 'paused' and chose his words very carefully
It was as if he was measuredly shocked :scared: at what Putin had told him
It was like 'Holy Mother Mary of God' can that really be true?



Abbott didn't give anything away and held his cards extremely tight to his chest. From an Outsider looking in, its was easy to see Abbott change his (Direct-Attack) on Russia & Putin blaming them for the ill-gotten Fate of MH17 to a more measured response in lieu of the telephone conversation had with Putin earlier in the day...

CONCLUSION:

Abbott knows the story from a Russian standpoint and it was if he couldn't believe what he was hearing from the Russian President..!

Now Tony Abbott has heard the Truth from the Russian President, it will be very interesting just how all of this plays out..?

One things for sure, the (Real-Truth) on this False-Flag will surface and the UN/NATO & US Cabal Alliance will be $hitting-Themselves as to what the final outcome will be..?

This is my Final (Litmus-Test) for the Aussie PM...:wizard:


He knows the Truth
He knows Putin's side of the story


I think the Cabal's Fate now lies directly on the outcome of this investigation...:yes4:

Then you have Australia's Foreign Minister Julie Bishop who held the final (Binding-Vote) that saw Tony Abbott become leader of the Liberal National Party (LNP)...

Julie Bishop is one I don't trust as much, admittedly she is all new to this. However, most Aussies have a sense of dis-trust from this ruthless politician...

Interestingly enough - Julie Bishop's very 1st meeting was in New York with the CIA...:shocked:

http://www.aijac.org.au/media/news_item/julie_bishop_131002_getty_180x120.jpg http://bulevard.bg/attachments/pictures-photos/0003/3359/thumb_small/logoto-na-tsru.jpg?1404897032


ABC News...

During her trip, Ms Bishop has met with senior intelligence officers including the head of the CIA.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-07-21/bishop-lobbies-un-as-bodies-being-used-a-pawns/5610360

I be watching this space intently and will update you all on any further developments.

[Centauri]

Since this thread is on the front page still with the word BUSTED in it, I figured I'd put this here. For some reason I didn't want to start yet another thread.

Jim Stone, as always, is full of outrage and some serious logic points that I find interesting regarding this... whatever this event is. Sometimes he gets a bit too flagrant in his near-antisemitism rants forgetting to keep reiterating exactly what groups he is trash-talking. This, unfortunately, sours many and undermines his credibility to many.
Well, here goes nothing. From his website...


"DNA PROOF SUBMITTED AT LEAST A WEEK TOO SOON PROVES IDENTIFICATION OF PASSENGERS FALSE
Toni wrote:
Today I picked up my sister who flew in from the netherlands. She tells me that a team of doctors from the Netherlands went to the crash site and identified people on board as the people who checked in flight MH17. Including DNA proof. I told her I doubt that is possible in such a short time.
My response:
DNA identification requires a pre crash sample to be available for all passengers. There is NO WAY they could have located even ONE pre crash sample this quickly and then used it to identify even ONE passenger in only two days. The machines may go that fast with really good samples if you start from day one with both samples in the lab, but HOW, with passengers from Malaysia, China, Australia, the Netherlands and many other places could that happen? ANSWER: THERE WAS NO DNA IDENTIFICATION and now that this lie has been spun WAY TOO SOON, THERE NEVER WILL BE. Just like when Israel verifies the DNA of a "suicide bomber" and bulldozes the neighborhood within two hours of a "bombing", such lies are for the foolish. DO NOT be counted among them.
If a super sleuth crack team of experts was deployed and had the best of the best gear ON SITE IN UKRAINE, and a complimentary team ready to pounce right on the home of a crash victim you might see the first true result in FIVE DAYS if they got VERY LUCKY, with most in a week and a half, and many never identified at all because no pre crash sample was there to be had. Why would there be a rush to report this anyway (true or not), other than to steer public opinion?
With recombinant technology vastly improved over years prior, it might be possible to get a match in two days IF AND ONLY IF at the exact beginning of those two days both samples were available, both samples were very large and of high quality and both samples went straight into the equipment immediately. But with pre crash samples needing to be ferreted out from homes and posessions and being of imperfect quality, and the body over a thousand KM away, two days is laughably foolish - it simply would never happen.
I say ZERO dead aids doctors or live passengers or pilots, and only corpses loaded and flown via remote
DEAR RENSE AND YOSHI, YOU SCREWED UP BIG TIME. BECAUSE ON A 777, THE CARGO BAY IS PRESSURIZED AND RECEIVES THE EXACT SAME AIR THE CABIN DOES. THERE IS NO SEPARATION IN THIS ON A 777 WHICH IS UNIQUE TO THE 777 BECAUSE IT IS THAT WAY WITH ALL MODELS, AND IF LIVE PASSENGERS SHARED THE SAME AIRSPACE AS ROTTING CORPSES, WELL, THEY WOULD NOT GET ON THAT PLANE WOULD THEY? WHAT WOULD THE PILOTS THINK? YOU ARE BUSTED RENSE, GET THAT LIE OF YOURS ABOUT DISEASED DEAD CORPSES IN THE CARGO BAY WITH LIVE PEOPLE IN THE CABIN OFF THE WEB.
And why load diseased corpses into a plane that was going to be shot down in the middle of nowhere? The diseased corpses cargo bay story is absolute crp and that is all there is to it. I am actually angry with Rense for spinning that kind of bunk out of nowhere and or allowing Yoshi to peddle that crp on such a large venue, as angry as I am for having an Australian newspaper make the the same type of lie up about 108 dead doctors when there is no way ANY doctor has a nose that would have permitted boarding that plane AT ALL."


and another point....

In the wreckage the rotten corpses were not bagged or shielded from their environment in ANY WAY. This makes the entire notion of having live people, ESPECIALLY DOCTORS WHO MIGHT KNOW THAT SMELL, on that plane at all.
Bottom line? The shared airspace in the cargo hold and cabin once again supports the entire notion that the shoot down plane really was flight 370, and it was either autopiloted or remote controlled to the shoot down location. No live passenger would have boarded and no pilot would have either with no separation between them and rotting corpses in a sealed environment, the shared airspace leaves only ONE ANSWER, which is:
Someone with billion dollar funding bought all seats on the flight to suit the records, fake identities and accompanying passports were provided, the plane was swapped, the flight was listed as canceled, and flight 370 took off and was used for the shoot down. It was flown 200 KM off course to get to the correct region for shoot down.
Afterward route MH17 continued perfectly on schedule as if no crash happened at all. That is because route MH17 lost no planes and could just resume as normal. Flight 370 was canceled for weeks because it genuinely vanished, yet again confirming MH17 lost no aircraft at all. And all people on flight 370 were killed well in advance of this false flag shoot down to make good and sure NO ONE would survive the crash to talk about what happened at Diego Garcia.
And the pristine passports also tell the story, there was not one recovered that looked the least bit used. Obviously they were made days before this false flag, and whoever fronted it did not expect any intact bodies to make it through the crash. Usually with high speed crashes bodies are erased. In this case, that assumption was a huge mistake.
And what about Gaza? That is even more motiviation for ditching flight 370 at this time, to draw the public eye away from an even bigger crime to a lesser one to be milked as many ways as possible, including an attempt to frame Russia for a plane shoot down.


and another point...

108 aids conference delegates suddenly dropped to six proves entire "missing and dead" script from MH17 a fabrication.
Many news sites picked this 108 number up, and this ONE THING, which was a HUGE LIE, proves that there were NO REGULARLY SCHEDULED PASSENGERS ON FLIGHT MH17. The redactions of the 108 aids conference delegates proves the entire list false, if you drop the number 108 down to six, who were the other 102? The mainstream media is hiccuping and backtracking and tripping all over itself trying to plug holes in their story and praying for short memories and impressionable attention deficit minds, please watch the puppet on the left while the "magic" is done elsewhere and OH GOD may they forget all the lies we spun and just hop right back into tomorrows script without thought or memory AT ALL.


and another involving any 'investigation'...

It has been anounced that because rebels got to the crash first, NO ANALYSIS OF THE CRASH CAN BE DONE.
How convenient. Let me tell you why no analysis can be done. Because Ukraine is totally zionist controlled, and they do not want answers getting out. These answers will be provided by serial numbers on all the parts. Flight 370 was a brand spankin new aircraft, at a little under two years old. And it would be impossible to dispose of. You might be able to go through it and rob the aluminum and get that recycled without anyone pegging you, but what about the landing gear, hydraulic pumps, fuel pumps, engines or anything else? Those parts would have been impossible to dispose of because they are all tracked via serial number and the serial numbers are all tracked to the plane they came from. The only way to ditch flight 370 would be to do so in a war zone in a totally controlled puppet state where you could blame circumstances for the inability to conduct a proper investigation. I guess you could also ditch it at sea, but there are satellites, RUSSIAN SATELLITES that could nail you doing it.

So there you have it. What does everyone think about these points?

[sigma6]

Let's not assume that there are not different factions in the Government of the People's Republic of China, and Russia, respectively. These governments are not monolithic. Some of the factions are linked to off world factions. Then again, the whole build up situation may be being contrived in order to divert attention away from a currency rebalancing situation that the IMF could be contemplating in the near future. .....magicians attempt to divert attention while indulging in a sleight of hand....

Good assessment... I agree exactly, look at all the things this has managed to erase from main stream media. the genocidal attack of Israeli tanks to clear out the gaza strip. And the rise is the price of gold, which I think is largely a reaction to the BRICS announcement. But meant to look like a reaction to the jet downing...

[jackovesk]

Some interesting language in this interview...

6QOPOdstx-4

Yep, good find SilentFeathers...:thumb:


Your a FKIN-LIAR)))) :director: John Kerry

Your (LYING-EYES) & (EXCESSIVE :shocked: BLINKING) are a Dead Giveaway...:mad2:

(WAR-MONGERING) Rhetoric at its Best- (Absolutely PATHETIC)...:faint:

[sigma6]

[...]

.... Where is the Spanish Air Traffic Controller (before they kill him, he is now a target) According to him there is also more evidence and witnesses to prove that. That will blow EVERYTHING IN THE MSM DOWN THE TOILET.

They are already busy discrediting him as a non-existent entity...

However, what remains are the confiscated Kiev air-control radar and communication data... apparently one faction of the "Ukrainian official" military got their hands on them and not releasing them for international investigation... one wonders why... since it would reveal why MH-0017 got to be rerouted in a corridor 300 miles north of its approved flight plan.

The claim was that he was deported from Ukraine. Hard to believe they would do that if he had the information that is claimed.

EXACTLY... and someone suggested he is being treated as a non entity? What is the logic behind that?.... other then evidence of bias and propaganda before the investigation has even started...

[sigma6]

According to McConnell’s documents, Boeing is said to have stated that by end of 2009 all Boeing planes would be fitted with the BUAP - making them impossible to manually hijack within the plane but susceptible to remote control by the military, according the flight veteran.”

Can you hear the Satanic backwards double speak... what they are really saying it is impossible to hijack... that is, unless you are Boeing or the CIA... the logical reality is BY DEFINITION, these planes are DEFINITELY HIJACKABLE... It's a just a matter of hacking the system... All programs can be hacked, but when you are the creator and the government with jurisdictional access, then it is a given...

Who's going to trust the US not to crash their planes?

[GoodETxSG]

Implying that this is being pegged as a false flag ONLY by photo's of Passports that are all without blemish or a crinkle is disingenuous. :confused:

Evidence is available in the black boxes of the planes, the Tapes from the Flight Control Towers (In neighboring area's as well as interested groups spying on every electronic transmission going on in the region), the actual SAM Batter (If it was not fired from one of the UK Planes Shadowing the Plane when it was shot down), and Satellite Telemetry of probably half a dozen countries/organizations that have been in GeoSynchronous Orbit over the conflict zone since the ordeal began. These satellite's have the ability to show exactly where the missile came from if they are willing to sacrifice the technical capabilities of their satellites in doing so. In the mean time there is plenty of "Evidence" being fabricated and quashed by the MSM/West to "Spin this Tragedy into an opportunity" (Does that line sound familiar?)...

For those who have drank the Kool Aid there is no discussing the finer points of how this "Game" (As these people call it) is played (And in turn WE are played). One thing that can be said is that some MAJOR information is being withheld from the public by more than one Government and the question should be WHY!

Who has to GAIN Who has to LOOSE in this scenario? I am told that NATO is actually ramped up and ready to mobilize before anyone has proven who/what brought down the plane!

Who/What was possibly on the plane that it was first singled out among dozens of other flights that day, diverted and then shot down?

Why are the Intel groups from the countries that have so much to loose keeping information that could benefit them quiet? This is the one that arches my eye brows the most...

This all sounds very weird and like a conspiracy theory wet dream but something strange is going on with the entire situation and the crash site as is being reported from close by on the ground by spectators with binoculars (For Real).

While all of that is being played out over there Politicians on both sides cannot let a perfect storm or human tragedy go to waste. Why doesn't anything shock me anymore?

http://www.veteranstoday.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/1052293-320x205.jpg
The Donetsk Republic already has international observers on the crash site.

Satellite data on MH17 should be released: Analyst
http://www.veteranstoday.com/2014/07/20/satellite-data-on-mh17-should-be-released-analyst/

Rebel leader gives bizarre account of plane crash (Bodies seemed to have been drained of Blood and decomposed)
***Some of the worlds leading Epidemiologists were onboard the plane some of which worked on bioweapons and AIDS Research. It has been said that some of the people's names cannot be released nor can their coworkers as it would cause panic among some organizations. What is not being reported is that just under half of the passengers were scientists of some sort... mostly unrelated fields. (What does this mean? Coincidence? Too Weird to Believe? I wonder if any of their passports were in that stack?)***
http://deadlinelive.info/2014/07/19/rebel-leader-gives-bizarre-account-of-plane-crash-bodies-seemed-to-have-been-drained-of-blood-and-decomposed/

Hillary Tells EU to Use MH17 Tragedy to Find Alternatives to Gazprom (dollar dumping gas giant)
Nothing to do with Petro $ Dump and BRICS Economic Threat to the CABAL? Not one smidgen of corruption or horse head left in the BRICS Alliance beds as a sign?
http://www.activistpost.com/2014/07/hillary-tells-eu-to-use-mh17-tragedy-to.html#!biXGWn
nkTRJgDkNFg

WHOEVER BROUGHT DOWN MH17 HAD EXTENSIVE TRAINING, US ARMY MAJOR GENERAL
The "Rebels" who were given a SAM Battery or "Captured" one read the manuals and figured out the access codes and RADAR Targeting systems without test firing the system or any live fire experience at all?
http://www.phantomreport.com/whoever-brought-down-mh17-had-extensive-training-experts-says?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+PhantomReport+%28Phantom+Report%29

Does the Weird Numerology event tie in or is this article way off? *** ”Now I’m going to test your numerology skills by asking you to think about the magic seven …Most of you will know that seven is quite a number” speech by Christine Lagarde, President of IMF on 15 January 2014" I dunno, this is a stretch it's all hinky/weird to me.
http://www.thetruthseeker.co.uk/?p=101091

What Really Happened to MH17? An Open Source Investigation
http://www.corbettreport.com/what-really-happened-to-mh17-an-open-source-investigation/

In Wake of MH17 Crash, Civilian Casualties Mount in East Ukraine
International observers confirm they have accessed site and remains of crash casualties
https://www.commondreams.org/headline/2014/07/20-1

Was the Shootdown of the Passenger Jet Over Ukraine a False Flag?
http://redicecreations.com/article.php?id=31020
RMgIpC-bCfQ
Corporate Media Blames Russia for Downing of MH17 Despite Lack of Evidence - Elite gunning for world war to distract attention from slow motion crash of economy
Who Benefits?

Everyone agrees that the sniper attack in Ukraine which started the regime change was a false flag attack.

Eric Zuesse claims false flags are continuing to this day in Ukraine:

Writing at professorsblog.com, this great historian, Dr. de Noli, noticed that whereas in “Berlin 27 Feb 1933, Nazis set fire the Reichstag, and Adolf Hitler blames ‘pro-Russian gangsters’,” a chief instigator of the 22 February 2014 Ukrainian coup was a leading Swedish nazi, Sweden’s Foreign Minister Carl Bildt, and that a remarkably similar tactic was used by Bildt and the Obama Administration to start the Ukrainian civil war. De Noli notes that this war was sparked and made inevitable when in “Odessa 2 May 2014, nazis set fire [to the Trade] Union building and Carl Bildt blames ‘pro-Russian gangsters’.” In both of the two instances (first, with Hitler, and then with Obama), a “false-flag operation” was employed in order to confuse onlookers regarding which side the perpetrators of these fires and explosions actually were on. For example, in the Odessa event, the thugs wore armbands with anti-nazi insignia but were actually from the two Ukrainian nazi parties, Svoboda and Pravy Sektor. They used those armbands in order to confuse onlookers to think that the people who were setting fire to the anti-nazis were themselves anti-nazis. This was a very carefully planned operation, and you can see here and here, video documentation of the thugs who did it and who are still doing violent false-flag operations inside Ukraine: these people are Ukrainian nazis, not German ones, but they model themselves upon the German original, as you can see from their own insignia, which are shown in those videos, and which insignia vary little from the swastika and the SS symbol. Ukraine’s nazis are rather bold about modeling themselves upon Hitler’s Nazis — the original nazis.

False flag attacks have been carried out by countries all over the world … including Russia.

Was the murder of 300 innocent passengers when their plane was shot down today a false flag? If so, who did it?

CBS reports in an article entitled “‘Big Question’ Is Why Plane Was Flying Over War Zone”:

During a phone interview with CBS News Thursday morning, Captain Capt. Chesley “Sully” Sullenberger was questioned why Malaysia Airlines flight 17 would be flying over Ukraine’s border with Russia despite ongoing political unrest in the area.

Sullenberger, the veteran of the 2009 Miracle on the Hudson landing, is an aviation expert for CBS News….

“That is one of the big questions right now,” said Sully. “The U.S. Federal Aviation Administration has barred U.S. Airlines from flying over this area for some time.”

***

The Danville resident said that, if air traffic control personnel were using both primary and secondary radar, it’s possible that an image of a missile could have been captured on screen, if in fact that is what took down the plane.

The Atlantic -in a report titled, “The FAA’s Notice Prohibiting Airline Flights Over Ukraine” – notes:

Did aviation authorities know that this was a dangerous area?

Yes, they most certainly did. Nearly three months ago, on the “Special Rules” section of its site, the U.S. Federal Aviation Administration put out an order prohibiting American pilots, airlines, charter carriers, and everyone else over whom the FAA has direct jurisdiction, from flying over parts of Ukraine.

Zero Hedge asks:

Who diverted Flight MH-17 over restricted airspace

Why the videos look like they were faked

Who benefits?

Tony Cartalucci argues:

Russia’s strongest card thus far has been its restraint and NATO’s inability to implicate it in the chaos NATO itself started by backing armed Neo-Nazis during the “Euromaidan” of late 2013-early 2014. Russia surely would not throw that card away to pass along weapon systems to fighters that were already successfully downing Ukrainian military aircraft with man-portable missiles.

[...]

Read the full article at: infowars.com

[sigma6]

Seriously, who in their right mind would fly a plane load of almost 300 people over a war zone where it was common knowledge planes were getting blasted out of the sky?????
Is Malaysian Airlines really this stupid?????

If they built in remote control, they can control what the pilot is seeing on his gauges. I speculated this is what happened with the Korean flight. The pilots were very clear, that they didn't feel the readings were right. It might be harder to notice you are 300 miles off course. But the weirdest part is how the Malaysian President keeps insisting that he didn't see any problem flying over that area. What is up with that???? That is what I can an "insurance legal statement" i.e. when you start factoring in legal interpretations, it starts forcing everyone to lie essentially based on legal interpretations of fault, since it is all based on commerce, and compensation. Not justice so much.

I was waiting for someone to pick up on this....

It has been reported that the pilot felt "nervous" and changed his flight path, not to avoid a war zone known for shoot downs, but to fly right over the danger zone, makes no sense. It has been reported witnesses seen fighter jets escorting this jet TO THE WAR ZONE/TURKEY SHOOT. It has been reported that an air traffic controller said Ukraine shot the jet down.

Although we have no way of verifying this as truth or not, it has been reported regardless, part of the narrative.....a possibility.

The obvious-the media blitz......to give Putin a black eye and slow his advancement in to eastern Ukraine, to sway public opinion more to the negative about Russia/Putin. To further create the boogey man mentality towards Vlad Putin.

The "in your face" obvious that very few notice as the smoking gun..........Malaysia has lost 2 777's in a span of about 5 months. Out of all the carriers/brands, why Malaysia Air?????????????? How many times have we heard that the truth is always in plain sight?????? Hidden right in front of our eyes?????

Who on the worlds stage is being most affected by this MH17 event? Ukraine? Russia?....or perhaps Malaysia?????? Then toss in the MH370 event.

Isn't Malaysia anti west, anti Israel, anti just about everything the west wants? Who is trying to dig their fangs in to Malaysia? Could it be Goldman Sachs and Citi Group????? (yes, do the research).

While every one is hating on Putin, Malaysia is falling apart politically and economically. Razak (Malaysian Gov) is quickly losing his political influence and Malaysian's economy is being hit hard....not to mention Malaysia is still one of the hold outs towards the Pacific Trade Agreement if my information is correct.

Take the Russian-Ukraine equation out of it and look at the last two huge events in the media blitz, MH370 and MH17, and Malaysia is front and center..............IMO, Malaysia may be an even more important "trophy" than the Ukraine in the economic war we are witnessing. Perhaps the true distraction is the controllers keeping Ukraine and Putin front in center while they blackmail & steal Malaysia?

Sure the Ukraine is a huge development, but sheesh, what is happening to one of the worlds largest economies in one of the fastest growing (very important) strategic locations on this planet?

Also, John Kerry went to Malaysia a few months before MH370 went missing, then Obama went to Malaysia a few months before this current MH17 disaster. Perhaps Malaysia is not playing along and the noose is tightening around their neck?

Also Razak's daughter is a huge AIDS activist, (another personal message towards Razak with AIDS being a focal point of some passengers killed?).

MH370 and MH17 both being Malaysia jets a coincidence? Personally, I think not.....

What we are actually witnessing is an evil and dark quickening towards global control.

If that is the case they better start talking to China, or they will end up like the Japanese, which I am sorry to say, I agree with Fulford, they have been conditioned, threatened, brutalized and intimidated into being US lap dogs... that makes a lot of sense... Japan will be freeing itself come 2015, based on the 70 years of bankruptcy model, which I believe is what is going on, Hong Kong was given back to the Chinese. So the US Banking Cartel, may be looking for another access point into the Asian market, and it's not like the Middle East where they can just get everyone killing each other over who their favourite religious figure is... And they need to "buy in" now before their standard of living and security becomes to high, and makes it more costlier in the future...

it appears there are many angles at play... more then meets the eye. One thing we can be certain of... If the MSM wants us to believe that Ukrainian Separatists did it. At least we know for sure that can't possibly be true.
Simple and predictable as that.

update: after reading Pieczenik, it is Malaysia Gambling (Criminal Element) that is trying to get into the US Market, (which is a joke deal really, given the US is heading into recession, hyper inflation...)

[sigma6]

Why would it be fake? How could Russia or Eastern Ukraine fake a Spanish Air Traffic Controller? This is going to devastate the Western Propaganda, that and dead already smelling rotting bodies drained of blood (or dead and frozen for weeks...) Gee who likes to keep frozen bodies on storage for special occasions (Piecnenik stated this is what the US did with Bin Laden...) Never at loss for one more stage prop


(Piecnenik stated this is what the US did with Bin Laden...)

That reminds me, I was going to look into what Dr. Steve Pieczenik's ((INTEL)) was on MH17..?

http://media.tumblr.com/8f6fe1550f7cd35b897da921e299f747/tumblr_inline_mlf0mm7r0t1rn2vc5.png

Once Again, The Intelligence Theater Of The Absurd: Malaysian AF 17 “Shot Down With Missile” Over Ukraine As 70,000 Israeli Soldiers INVADE GAZA IN A NEW WAR!!

July 18, 2014

News Coverage Co-Opted by: American/Israeli/Russian/Dutch /Malaysian Intelligence Services to Divert Attention Away from Israeli Slaughter of Innocent Children, Women, Civilians In Gaza! The first and most horrific casualty in the Israeli War and Malaysian Airline Tragedy is the TRUTH! Remember that the truth is always the first victim of any war.

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-lBbRfeFSJSc/U8mLhg7tBZI/AAAAAAAAEMg/aUZQXjCbI-0/s1600/images-26.jpeg

I must state categorically that I have never witnessed a more absurd attempt at diverting worldwide news attention away from an ACTUAL ILLEGAL INVASION by Israeli forces into another country (Gaza) than this directing of MEDIA ATTENTION to an “ALLEGED” DOWNING of yet another “MYSTERIOUS EXISTING/NON-EXISTING MALAYSIAN AIRLINE.” Yes, once again, like the ‘stand down’ in 9/11 and the sick makeshift drama of ‘Newtown’, we are now witnessed to the collective creative forces of the intelligence communities of the USA, Russia, Israel, Holland and of course, the pathetic country run by the Genting Gambling Empire: Malaysia to another narrative that RINGS FALSE.

In the world of intelligence there is one SACRED RULE nothing happens by accident! Like psychiatry, intelligence speaks most loudly in the interstices of SILENCE –what is not said and not what is in the verbal diarrhea of media, Tv pundits and histrionic articles about kids killed on board a plane. Remember: You are supposed to forget that 1800 innocent Palestinians have been wounded and close to 300 killed in a gratuitous slaughter of people in Gaza by Israeli forces. You are supposed to be distracted!

Now what do I mean?

When countries are afraid or unwilling to intercede in an imminent war, like that of Israel constantly fixated on destroying it’s own creation –HAMAS—then a new narrative must be created by the various countries to avoid their inherent responsibility to pre-empt this impending war. The narrative creators, various Intelligence services including the CIA, FSB, Mossad, Dutch intel and Malaysian ‘pimps’, have constructed a phantasmagorical plot that once again involves yet, another, “mysterious Malaysian Airline” like the former disappearing one that CNN obsessively described for over one month.

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-tmbmAooLMM0/U8mLtqRhUQI/AAAAAAAAEMo/u_3h6X76Gwo/s1600/images-29.jpeg

What is the evidence for my assertion?

[1] Once again, CNN in the person of the effete CIA operative Anderson Cooper brought on board for our viewing pleasure a new character whom I call “Major Mudd’, in real life a 25 year veteran of the CIA/FBI [which one are you? Or does the CIA admit they use the FBI as a ‘cover’?]. This Major Mudd explains the intricacies of HUMINT, ELITN, SIGINT, and even has the intercepted NSA recordings of “Russian Separatists BOASTING ABOUT THEIR ACHIEVEMENT WITH THEIR MISSILE STRIKE”.

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-qfRElxgr8Qc/U8mL6kSdJxI/AAAAAAAAEMw/qqZMd7G4Y00/s1600/images-30.jpeg

How convenient!

[2] Then we have the dependable histrionic professional POW, SENATOR JOHN McCAIN blustering about ‘serious consequences‘ against the Russians.

Of course, no mention was ever made about ISRAEL’S DECLARATION OF WAR IN GAZA!! That’s irrelevant to the former ISRAELI BOUGHT presidential candidate.

How convenient!

[3] Then Six of the Major Articles in the formerly esteemed NYTimes and Washington Post are about the missile, airplane routes of Ukraine, even a touching story about a girl and her doll on the Malaysian Airline ! Yet only one minor article on the 70K man invasion into Gaza! That’s amazing editorial assessment. A possible airline downing takes precedence over an actual gritty dirty war in Gaza involving hundred of thousand innocent lives and 300 children already dead. Only the Wall Street Journal, usually pro-Israel, wrote in an extensive, detailed piece on the IDF INVASION.

[3] Yet the most revealing piece of intelligence deception was a STRATFOR REPORT by the founder and chairman of Stratfor [CIA CUT-OUT] GEORGE FRIEDMAN describing in the most obtuse, convoluted sophomoric logic ever created by a HUNGARIAN JEW how the Malaysian Airline downing and the Israel incursion reflected “geopolitical imperatives”.

Absolute and complete nonsense for which I pay $350 a year .

[4] Then to top of the Absurd narrative, we have WHO researchers on their collective way to an AIDS conference in Australia by way of Kuala Lampur, Malaysia who were killed in this sad ‘Malaysia tragedy’. BTW, Bill Clinton is the GUEST SPEAKER at the AIDS CONFERENCE.

How convenient!

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-IW2ogCdRNtQ/U8mMGRiQ1QI/AAAAAAAAEM4/LcDePjhu8nI/s1600/images-28.jpeg

I am shocked, Rick, ‘this is a Casino!’ here in Casablanca. I will round up the usual suspects and please give me my 40,000 Francs.

Now why would Russia, USA, Israel, Malaysia and Holland collaborate on this type of nonsensical narrative?
Because each country has something to gain from avoiding condemnation of Israel and helping to create another Malaysian fairy-tale.

▪ USA does not want to interfere with Israeli attempts to curb Hamas. American overtures for peace have failed and have embarrassed this administration. Also the USA owes Israel for their help in the 9/11 ‘stand down’ which killed 3000 plus innocent Americans at the World Trade Center.

▪ Russia, as I have mentioned in the previous blog, has very close relations with Israel and Lieberman [Israel Minister of Foreign Affairs] and they seek help from Israel with Syria, ISIS [Israel funds them]; and allows Russia to enter the Middle East, ass-backward.

▪ CIA, FSB, GRU and MOSSAD all like to work together at one or another time. Very convenient.

▪ Holland—Now here is the one country that has always hidden behind a Jewish Myth—The Anne Frank Story --nonsensical story used to cover up Holland’s persecution of the JEWS IN HOLLAND [93 % of all Dutch Jews were killed by the DUTCH not the Nazis]. The Anne Frank story was used to cover up WAR CRIME COLLABORATIONS BETWEEN HOLLAND AND THE NAZIS. This WWII travesty will be elaborated in another blog.

▪ Malaysia of all the East Asian countries that can ‘pimp and prostitute’ itself for money—no country can beat the MALAYSIANS. When I was DAS for EAST ASIA, I remember another medical doctor, Dr Mahatir, who was a brilliant, manipulative extractor of favors ‘granted and received’.

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-hzrVI2LleIQ/U8mMUQVH7jI/AAAAAAAAENA/tSRsGejH3Z4/s1600/Unknown-3.jpeg

With respect to prostituting itself for money—Malaysia’s Genting Group wants favorable treatment in Miami, NY State, Pennsylvania in order to continue to develop MAJOR GAMBLING CASINOS all over the USA. BTW, the Genting Group in addition to running horse tracks, casinos and cruise-lines are notorious for being the drug runners of the world.

So I have presented to you, a background scenario which in my mind co-opts the nefarious narrative offered by the world wide media about some ‘real’ or ‘mythical’ Malaysian Airline which conveniently was shot down the same day that the Israelis invaded and slaughtered innocents in Gaza. Just like a skilled pick pocket or other criminal creates a “distraction” so you will not notice the REAL CRIME that is being committed. Israel knew from the beginning of the creation of Operation Dome that it would be in constant strategic tensions with the “terrorist” group it created –HAMAS—in order to test, refine and develop new weapons systems for the world-wide consortium of military industrial juggernauts eager to acquire the latest KILLING MACHINE.

What is a few hundred if not thousands of Palestinians, or Israelis or Jews, Muslims, Christians killed in the act of war? When war can give you the Miracle Weapons: drones, SDI, disease warfare, chemical weapons that command high profit margins! Greedy cowards and political elites worldwide will create all kinds of stories if it serves their purpose of economic, geopolitical and intelligence self-aggrandizement.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-y5bfyGWY5w0/U8mMh4TmlrI/AAAAAAAAENI/eScdAC9gezI/s1600/Unknown-9.jpeg


Hitler said it best when he decided to exterminate the Polish Jews, Slavs, Homosexuals, Gypsies, “Who remembers the Armenian Genocide of 1.2 million Armenian women, children all killed on the Death March from Turkey to Alleppo, Syria?“

Or maybe I should paraphrase Stalin, One death on a mysterious airplane is a tragedy but thousands of deaths in Gaza and Israeli are merely statistics!

Tragedy is sensational, worthy of headlines! Statistics are boring and not newsworthy. Historical amnesia and indifference are the greatest palliatives for national greed fed with nefarious deeds.

http://pieczenik.blogspot.com.au/

PS - As per usual Dr. Steve transforms the Debate into something many may not be able to grasp...

Quid Pro Quo...

(Problem-Reaction-Solution) Hidden in (PLAIN) view..!

I'm not saying his (Intel) is legit, but what I am saying the 'above' certainly should not be discarded...:nono:

Actually it explains alot more then most of the theories out there... I can't argue his logic... It's fixes all the little "nonsensicals" that are not adding up... it explains the "already dead bodies" ... why Israel was allowed to get away with hijacking the flight MH370, (Malaysia's price of "entry" into the "game") It explains why no one (even the Russians) are paying any attention to the Spanish Air Traffic Controller... or the Uke Fighters tailing the plane... Why it was off 300 miles and below the 35,000 at 33,000, .... why the Malaysian President is defending the flight path... By dumping a plane load of dead bodies in Eastern Ukraine gives the Easterners (Little Brother) something to do (and think about) (i.e. relax... we're going to be splitting Ukraine, hold on to your horses... here have some dead bodies... there... happy?) It explains the why Christine Lagarde hinted at July 20th (off by a couple days...) because it was all staged in advance... Why no one is paying attention to Israel killing Palestinians... Why Putin's Plane was 40 minutes behind... (it was just to add to the mix and put more fuel into a false speculative trails that would lead no where...

I have to say this, I believed his Bin Laden interpretation was spot on... and I think this make more sense over all because it ACTUALLY DOES cover the big picture. I would add, now you know why they used to pay this guy the big bucks, he has righteously made us all look like amateurs LOLOL....

update: And the best part is, the Eastern Ukrainians are removing the bodies, and delivering them to an "unknown" destination, probably Russia, (who will ship them back to Israel...) And they have the perfect excuse why they will "never know" or "agree" on whatever the results on the bodies, you watch... all the "bloodless already dead bodies" will disappear... All this fits in his analysis... WOW!!!

There was one thing that caught my attention.... did you notice the "logo" on the Amsterdam passports? Did you catch that emblem, because it really caught my attention... DOUBLE HEADED EAGLE (MASONIC)

And it makes them all look so statesmen like and diplomatic .... LOLOLOL!!!

update: Yes I concur... World Federation Wrestling Antics would better describe more accurately what we are watching, everyone gets to latch onto their favourite heroes... makes perfect sense... and I'm NOT being facetious here either... this makes sense...

And I think it is possible to project who some of the losers are going to be, who is going to be left holding the bag... Poroshenko and his Neo Nazi Party will be at the mercy of the a very disenfranchised Ukraine when all this is over and China will step in and help them out (i.e. lend them money) to do what they can only do, grow wheat for the rest of the world) Except they will be even poorer and more dependent, like the South American Countries/Companies are to the US... ouch...
And of course the Palestinians are taking up the wazoo right now... lambs to the slaughter... Even France stepped in and insisted they were NOT allowed to Parade (for health and safety reasons)... Way to go France! Now tha's teamwork!

update: Hell this is better then Ocean's 11,12, and 13 all rolled into one. It's like they have all agreed ahead of time who gets what and how they are going to sort themselves out in preparation for the coming global crash, currency reset, and new standard of living distribution which is going to result inevitably... (oh my God!)

Even Obama is putting on this amazing tough show right now, showing us being gay doesn't mean you're necessarily a wussy. Stand proud America!... LOL!

https://fbcdn-sphotos-g-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xpf1/t1.0-9/10501649_690666754303359_7532801978446325833_n.jpg

[Cidersomerset]

What Did US Spy Satellites See in Ukraine?

new Monday 21st July 2014 at 05:15 By david-icke


http://www.davidicke.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/buk-missiles.jpg


‘In the heat of the U.S. media’s latest war hysteria – rushing to pin blame for
the crash of a Malaysia Airlines passenger jet on Russia’s President Vladimir
Putin – there is the same absence of professional skepticism that has marked
similar stampedes on Iraq, Syria and elsewhere – with key questions not being
asked or answered.

The dog-not-barking question on the catastrophe over Ukraine is: what did the
U.S. surveillance satellite imagery show? It’s hard to believe that – with the
attention that U.S. intelligence has concentrated on eastern Ukraine for the
past half year that the alleged trucking of several large Buk anti-aircraft
missile systems from Russia to Ukraine and then back to Russia didn’t show
up somewhere.’

Read more: What Did US Spy Satellites See in Ukraine?


http://consortiumnews.com/2014/07/20/what-did-us-spy-satellites-see-in-ukraine/

http://www.davidicke.com/headlines/

[sigma6]

Read the Pieczenik piece I believe it answers that too... It really is the only answer that works on all levels, it truly explains the big picture.

I have to admit this thing was eating me inside out.... but as soon as I read that... my mind snapped back into perspective... all those loose ends were overwhelming my logic circuits... then it suddenly ceased... I felt calm... satisfied, his model is robust, I'm envious, at the depths it reaches and complexity is solves. I see many little pieces falling into place.

update: And this fits V's interpretation... and sure enough, look at this...

Time For Ukraine To Divide
http://www.theage.com.au/comment/time-for-ukraine-to-divide-20140720-zv19c.html

Ukraine, as we know it, is dead. The country is irrevocably broken into two by ethnicity, language, geography and now blood. The sooner the people of Ukraine accept this, and the European Community, the Russians and the Americans accept this, the sooner the nation can divide into its two natural parts and move on.

[Zamolxe]

I thought that it was because of logical thinking and practicing discernment the truth movement guys opened their eyes to the cabal that's running us like slaves.
The way some of the users here are still defending this DHABOO7 guy is strikingly similiar to the way CNN or FOX News viewers would defend those networks when confronted.
I believed that the "modus operandi" here was 'question everything' and 'watch out for liars that follow their own purpose'.

I stand behind my assumption that DHABOO7 is full of BS and particularly this video is nonsense. I'm not talking about any of his other videos. Maybe he's also discussed about other stuff that does not need embelishment like the FED, banking cartels, NWO, etc etc.

The thing is that the first time I saw his videos was at the time of comet ISON, and I actually watched 3 of his reports about it when I realized he was just trying to get viewers.
Every report was something like: "This is just in!! Incredible folks!! We're now 100% sure that... <<insert any sensationalist BS>>" Then the next report would just forget all about the last 100% facts and bring totally oposite 100% facts...

[kirolak]

Apparently the area was known to be dangerous, but it was more fuel efficient to fly over the Ukraine, the height of the plane was considered to be "safe"; but who will ever "really" know. . . ?

[Omni]

A good way to tell what was orchestrated is by what push in agenda happens shortly after a certain event. So what agenda does this have being pushed after such a thing? I have heard to distract from Gaza. But there would be more IMO. I haven't read a ton regarding this so please excuse my ignorance if people have already said such things..

[Zamolxe]

Some of you users keep pointing out the passports...

This is actually getting really hard to comprehend.

Are you actually implying that there was no "real plane" and "real passangers or relatives" -- or that actually there was a real plane and it was switched, afterwards the passports were planted to make us believe it was the actual real plane that crashed?

Why would the cabal need to go totally over their heads to:

- somehow switch the plane - this implies masking the radar signature of the real and dummy plane; take the real plane somewhere else; if the plane was switched, why not plant the passports in the fake plane instead of planting them at the crash site?

- fill the dummy plane with bodies that could be easily analyzed

- set up hundreds and hundreds of would be relatives in Holland, US, Australia, Malaysia, etc... so that when they receive the remains, not disclose that it's not the real passengers. - and what about the relatives of the real missing people? will they not be asked to identify the remains?

- get in the rebel controlled area to plant passports and tons of debree to make us believe this was the actual plane that took off from Holland

I could go on but maybe I made my point...

Why would they do all this when the cabal could have actually shot down the plane? Doesn't it seem unpractical?

I have already posted photos with intact pieces of luggage or almost intact pieces of fuselage where you can clearly see undamaged objects that were inside the plane.
So, either they were planted, and we'll need answers to the questions above, or the luggage fell from the plane and could have easily contained the passports.
Another user also said that it's impossible, the passports should have been in their hands... I can't imagine who still holds their passport in their hand 3 hours after takeoff - you put it in the carry-on luggage... and actually if it was in their hands and the plane blew apart, shouldn't it fall to the ground really gently? It's a piece of paper...

Also, you said that they can't be found in a pile on the ground... I don't believe the pro-russian rebels that took pictures of the pile of passports on the ground found them like that (it would be really stupid for the billion dolar CIA propagandists to say: oh look, a pile of passports on the ground).
Again, the debree fell in a 15km wide area, they probably combed the zone and centralized everything where their commander was, that;s why pieces of luggage appear staked up in some photos... they went through the luggage to find passports and determine who was on board, they actually thought the plane could be carrying ukrainian spies or something. Doesn't this sound more plausible? Bring every piece of luggage found in the area to the commander and afterwards look for passports to see what plane this was that just crashed in your backyard and who was on it?

[Zamolxe]

Did you actually know anything about the conflict before this crash?
Could you kindly spend less time questioning the knowledge of other members and less time heaping scorn on the foolishness of some of the web commentators, and rather spend more time providing the best evidence and analysis you can find or provide?

An excess of scorn can cloud the discussion.

Thanks Paul. I am feeling quite chastised.


Daphne, I'm sorry if I have offended you. I just did not understand why you so zealously implied that the pictures I posted were fake.

I'll ask you again and would be delighted to receive your answer as this seems to have turned into a debate. Please tell me, what do you base your assumptions on that the photos are fake? these were photos posted on russian media, before western journalists could reach the scene. If they are fake, why would russian media fake them?

Also, I'm sorry if I was offensive in asking you how much you knew of the conflict before the crash, but I would love to read your take on how the evidence (luggage, fuselage) was planted by the ukrainian army (as you said) in this particular area and in this particular context. was it before the plane crashed or after it crashed (in the short time before the rebels that control the area head to the site)? And why would they plant it? To make us believe it was a different plane than what actually crashed?

I would still like to hear an answer to how much you knew of the conflict before this event because you were so convinced of your point of view, and wouldn't hear any other argument. I think you can only prove me wrong and demonstrate that you were in knowledge of this subject and weren't making assumptions based on nothing.

Since the news of the disaster I immediately followed the thread on avalon to try and get extra info than what was reported on pro-west, pro-russian and neutral news channels... But I was actually shocked to see how quick avalon users were jumping to conclusions about the cabal's involvement, just as quick as the western media said it was the rebels who shot it down.
Also, I've been tracking the ukrainian situation since november 2013 and have watched tens and tens of hours of reporting from pro-western, pro-russian and neutral observers. I even have personal friends that have been on location reporting.
The way that some users (that I actually appreciated from other posts on this site) have been jumping to absurd conclusions and showing in some instances that they have absolutely no idea about this conflict has quite frankly really disapointed me. I am never fervent about a subject if I know nothing about it. First investigate, then try to make rational conclusions.

This video of DHABOO7 in my opinion is a total disgrace to the truth movement and people like him are parasites that will only further us away from answering our already numerous questions.
For me the video is even more stupid than the lies that CNN tries to pass by as reporting.

[Roisin]

The long and the short of it? As a distraction for what's going on now between Israel and the Hamas. This from the view higher up on the pyramid. Israel initiated its ground defense against the Hamas on the same day that plane went down. This was not a coincidence and was planned all along.

The Ukrainians moved one of their Buk systems into rebel territory and then left it there to make it look like the rebels had their own fully operational Buk system so they could say that the rebels used it to shoot down that plane.

The Ukrainians then guided that airliner (correction, my previous source on this was incorrect.) Corrected to --> 14 km off track via 2 of their military jets where they told the pilot to descend down to 33,000 ft so they could then blast it out of the sky using a jet- to- target sophisticated Buk system. IOWs, one of those military escort jets shot down that airliner or another separate Ukrainian military jet that was positioned ahead of time shot it down once it was over the area where they wanted the debris to fall.

The secondary objective to all of this was to turn Putin into the bogeyman so they (Ukraine and the West) can impose more sanctions on Russia and force him to stay out of the Ukraine.

[TigaHawk]

They want to send troops in but without the public's backing it will be difficult. To get the public's backing, they create a reason for hatred and want for revenge.

[EYES WIDE OPEN]

Before any tells you otherwise this is footage from Ukraine Military Aircraft Shot Down Over Slovyansk a month ago. NOT the Malaysia crash.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n60vAtZBrsI


VERY disapointed to see that Vetarns Today / Rense have posted the video above as evidence. I posted it here days ago and just as I predicted, its been called footage of the shootdown. http://www.veteranstoday.com/2014/07/19/mh17-working-group-established/

I expect more from them.

[EYES WIDE OPEN]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-c__Fm5liCo&list=UUFjOi1ZpZVErr8EYxg8t1dQ


Kiev’s evidence of militia’s responsibility for airliner crash Video conversation is faked - expert

http://en.itar-tass.com/russia/741521


A tape posted by Ukrainian security services in the Internet and allegedly recording a talk between self-defense fighters about the destruction of a Malaysian airliner is a fake, experts said on Sunday.
A group of experts studied the tape and came to the conclusion that it was made up of numerous unrelated recordings.



http://consortiumnews.com/2014/07/20/what-did-us-spy-satellites-see-in-ukraine/


What Did US Spy Satellites See in Ukraine?
July 20, 2014

Exclusive: The U.S. media’s Ukraine bias has been obvious, siding with the Kiev regime and bashing ethnic Russian rebels and Russia’s President Putin. But now – with the scramble to blame Putin for the Malaysia Airlines shoot-down – the shoddy journalism has grown truly dangerous, says Robert Parry.

What I’ve been told by one source, who has provided accurate information on similar matters in the past, is that U.S. intelligence agencies do have detailed satellite images of the likely missile battery that launched the fateful missile, but the battery appears to have been under the control of Ukrainian government troops dressed in what look like Ukrainian uniforms.

The source said CIA analysts were still not ruling out the possibility that the troops were actually eastern Ukrainian rebels in similar uniforms but the initial assessment was that the troops were Ukrainian soldiers. There also was the suggestion that the soldiers involved were undisciplined and possibly drunk, since the imagery showed what looked like beer bottles scattered around the site, the source said.


If you do not know who Robert Parry is - he is no lightweight when it comes to journalism.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Parry_(journalist)

[SilentFeathers]

Interesting (VIDEO) interview with the rebel leader about the plane crash in this cnn article.

Malaysia Airlines Flight 17: Eight unanswered questions (http://www.cnn.com/2014/07/21/world/europe/malaysia-airlines-unanswered-questions/)

Also, a tidbit about Joe Biden's son.....


Burisma Holdings’ Board Member Hunter Biden outlines his mission for the Company

“Burisma’s track record of innovation and industry leadership in the field of natural gas means that it can be a strong driver of a strong economy in Ukraine. As a new member of the Board, I believe that my assistance in consulting the Company on matters of transparency, corporate governance and responsibility, international expansion and other priorities will contribute to the economy and benefit the people of Ukraine.”

The Chairman of the Board of Directors of Burisma Holdings, Mr. Alan Apter, noted: “The company’s strategy is aimed at the strongest concentration of professional staff and the introduction of best corporate practices, and we’re delighted that Mr. Biden is joining us to help us achieve these goals.”

http://burisma.com/hunter-biden-joins-the-team-of-burisma-holdings/

[ktlight]

Also those passports were probably inside personal luggage.

Passports are held by the owner, usually in a safe place on the person.

The plane was 30,000+ in the sky

If a rocket had hit it, there would be fragments of the plane over a very large area, probably no fire.

How is it possible for pristine passports to be collected from charred bodies and/or why would there be so many passports in one piece of luggage.

[Abhaya]

This breaking news blurb just popped up on RT.

http://rt.com/news/174412-malaysia-plane-russia-ukraine/

Ukrainian Su-25 fighter recorded in close approach to MH17 before crash - Russian military

[Cidersomerset]

This is a couple of days old but I don't think has been posted.....


Special Report: Malaysian Flight False Flag Evidence Revealed

BY4W-8qNnD0

Published on 19 Jul 2014


Less than 24 hours after the devastating attack that downed Malaysian
Airlines Flight MH17, Neocons and their state-run media would have us
believe the case is closed...before an investigation has even been launched.
We break down the repetitive false-flag narrative.

[SilentFeathers]

Check this out.....and we are suppose to believe MH17 wasn't being watched with a magnifying glass before it went down???????????

If a Ukraine fighter jet took MH17 down, this article implies NATO is involved in the coverup....IMO


Seven NATO countries completed naval exercises in the Black Sea on Thursday, officials said, in a signal of the alliance's resolve to support east European members who have been unnerved by Russia's behavior in the Ukraine crisis.

Though scheduled before the crisis erupted, the war games took on added significance because of Russia's annexation of Ukraine's Black Sea peninsula of Crimea in March, and the subsequent outbreak of a pro-Russian separatist rebellion in eastern Ukraine.

Led by the Bulgarian navy, the 10-day drills aimed to improve tactical coordination of allied units “in a multi-threat environment,” NATO has said. Vessels took part from Bulgaria, Romania, Turkey, Greece, Italy, Britain and the United States.

“The navy exercises BREEZE 2014 successfully concluded,” a Bulgarian defense ministry spokesman said. The Romanian Navy said exercises involved commercial traffic monitoring, reaction to asymmetric threat warnings, anti-submarine warfare and artillery firing.

http://www.voanews.com/content/reu-nato-black-sea-war-games-end/1959529.html

PS: I'm finding info saying this operation ended before MH17 went down, but it still suggest some very high tech equipment most likely was still in the "neighborhood" when MH17 did go down....

[Hervé]

...

https://fwtinw.dm2302.livefilestore.com/y2pezkk3jI9ow3rwAaa1W6sr6_QnucNCVc7yjRT8JTRulu_vP2rKlq965tHNsvVaeoL04CSfOo5KWORThEw8fZgGdxYKchxtzFMR HmMJS7D_lI/false-flag-chalkboard.jpg?psid=1

[jackovesk]

Yep, these stories keep piling up don't they...

Further to what Cidersomerset & others have brought to the table Re: Satellite Surveylance

................

Whistleblower: U.S. Satellite Images Show Ukrainian Troops Shooting Down MH17

Source tells award winning reporter Washington lying about responsibility for tragedy

July 21, 2014

http://kickerdaily.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/V3.jpg

Award winning former Associated Press reporter Robert Parry has been told by an intelligence source that the United States is in possession of satellite imagery which shows that Ukrainian troops were responsible for the shoot down of Malaysian Airlines Flight 17.

In the absence of any proper investigation, media rhetoric over the last few days has firmly pointed the finger of blame for the downing of the aircraft on Russian-backed Ukrainian rebels, but Parry’s source tells a different story.

What I’ve been told by one source, who has provided accurate information on similar matters in the past, is that U.S. intelligence agencies do have detailed satellite images of the likely missile battery that launched the fateful missile, but the battery appears to have been under the control of Ukrainian government troops dressed in what look like Ukrainian uniforms.

The source said CIA analysts were still not ruling out the possibility that the troops were actually eastern Ukrainian rebels in similar uniforms but the initial assessment was that the troops were Ukrainian soldiers. There also was the suggestion that the soldiers involved were undisciplined and possibly drunk, since the imagery showed what looked like beer bottles scattered around the site, the source said.

Although the establishment press has attempted to deride any questioning of the official narrative that Ukrainian rebels were responsible for the incident by invoking the tired “conspiracy theory” pejorative, Parry can hardly be dismissed as a crank given his key role in covering the Iran-Contra scandal for the Associated Press and Newsweek. Indeed, Parry’s investigative work on intelligence matters, for which he was awarded the George Polk Award, suggests that the information provided by his source is worthy of serious attention.

U.S. and Ukrainian authorities continue to insist that Moscow-backed separatists were responsible for the tragedy, asserting that a BUK missile system was used to bring down the airliner. However, this was contradicted by Ukraine’s Prosecutor General Vitaliy Yarema, who stated, “The military told the president after the passenger plane had been shot down that the terrorists did not possess our Buk missile systems.”

In a related development, audio experts who conducted a study into the authenticity of a recording released by Ukrainian authorities which implicated Russian-backed rebels as being responsible for the missile attack on MH17 concluded that the tape was fabricated.

“The tape’s second fragment consists of three pieces but was presented as a single audio recording. However, a spectral and time analysis has showed that the dialog was cut into pieces and then assembled. Short pauses in the tape are very indicative: the audio file has preserved time marks which show that the dialog was assembled from various episodes, the expert said,” reports ITAR-TASS.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CR5HtzbMy-E
http://www.prisonplanet.com/whistleblower-u-s-satellite-images-show-ukrainian-troops-shooting-down-mh17.html

[Daphne]

Did you actually know anything about the conflict before this crash?
Could you kindly spend less time questioning the knowledge of other members and less time heaping scorn on the foolishness of some of the web commentators, and rather spend more time providing the best evidence and analysis you can find or provide?
?

An excess of scorn can cloud the discussion.

Thanks Paul. I am feeling quite chastised.


Daphne, I'm sorry if I have offended you. I just did not understand why you so zealously implied that the pictures I posted were fake.

I'll ask you again and would be delighted to receive your answer as this seems to have turned into a debate. Please tell me, what do you base your assumptions on that the photos are fake? these were photos posted on russian media, before western journalists could reach the scene. If they are fake, why would russian media fake them?

Also, I'm sorry if I was offensive in asking you how much you knew of the conflict before the crash, but I would love to read your take on how the evidence (luggage, fuselage) was planted by the ukrainian army (as you said) in this particular area and in this particular context. was it before the plane crashed or after it crashed (in the short time before the rebels that control the area head to the site)? And why would they plant it? To make us believe it was a different plane than what actually crashed?

I would still like to hear an answer to how much you knew of the conflict before this event because you were so convinced of your point of view, and wouldn't hear any other argument. I think you can only prove me wrong and demonstrate that you were in knowledge of this subject and weren't making assumptions based on nothing.

Since the news of the disaster I immediately followed the thread on avalon to try and get extra info than what was reported on pro-west, pro-russian and neutral news channels... But I was actually shocked to see how quick avalon users were jumping to conclusions about the cabal's involvement, just as quick as the western media said it was the rebels who shot it down.
Also, I've been tracking the ukrainian situation since november 2013 and have watched tens and tens of hours of reporting from pro-western, pro-russian and neutral observers. I even have personal friends that have been on location reporting.
The way that some users (that I actually appreciated from other posts on this site) have been jumping to absurd conclusions and showing in some instances that they have absolutely no idea about this conflict has quite frankly really disapointed me. I am never fervent about a subject if I know nothing about it. First investigate, then try to make rational conclusions.

This video of DHABOO7 in my opinion is a total disgrace to the truth movement and people like him are parasites that will only further us away from answering our already numerous questions.
For me the video is even more stupid than the lies that CNN tries to pass by as reporting.

It's not about "you" Zamoixe. It's about a very media driven script that includes pictures of passports that look perfect when the plane just crashed and they are supposed to Have been found in that "wreckage" site? Do you recall how pristine passports of the so called hijackers were found on 9/11? These are strategically placed media messages designed to add "proof" that it's not a false flag to the incident. Perhaps Dahboo is sensationalistic. But it doesn't take away the strong possibility that this is a completely staged event.

How I come to my conclusions is much like you do. I do not know anyone there, I also do not pollute my mind with traditional news sources like cnn or network news - I'm not interested in their propaganda. I watch many different sources from YouTube videos to alternative news on the internet.

I was simply stating an opinion based on my experience and knowledge. I disagree with you. I can live with that. It also happens to be an opinion that many people here share. I definitely do not like feeling like I'm being treated in a condescending manner.

[GoodETxSG]

Untrained investigators hunting and pecking through a majority of the information in a Thread (No matter its Title/Topic), grabbing the data that most favors the point they were trying to make... then doing a "Mexican Hat Dance" around that information and being reactionary (visceral as opposed to logical Forum response?) is exactly how I would want a target audience to react to my PSYOP.

I am just saying this makes some of my points in this and other Threads for me... (And yes everyone is welcome to their own opinion, that is what is counted on in PSYOP 101, Illusion of ideology being your own...). I guess out of all of this information certain things are going to "POP" out more for those who want to debate than want to get to the bottom of an issue...

DHAB007 "may" be 60% disinfo/BS (I really have only followed his video's accept when sources have pointed one out to me and that has only been on a few occasions), I do not know the ratio of disinfo on his channel as I do not subscribe/follow his every video but like I have said in other Threads about sifting through Intel (In "Hip High" wading boots) those who are not trained to do so have no stomach or temperament for it. To be clear the passport info was just a piece of the puzzle and not a slam dunk for any type.

You usually have to "Dumpster Dive in your favorite Tuxedo" with just about every source that provides you information to be able to dig out a few nuggets of Actionable Intel... (AKA Good Info). No one source is going to lay out the "Good Intel" for you on the table in one single source (DOES NOT HAPPEN, ONLY IN THE MOVIES), you have to put the puzzle together by doing the dirty work and using your brain to decide what is BS and what jives or fits the puzzle.

That is what Real Operatives do for a living, it's not glamorous, its not fun, its very frustrating and it is a matter of back checking (And ReChecking) on sources intel with various other sources of intel in as much of a "Blind Taste Test" way as possible. Then you ferret out the most likely sources which have Intel that coobberate.

I have no horse in the race as far as DHABOO7 other than I have been pointed to his Intel on a hand full of occasions where parts of his info panned out. All the rest of his info could be pure BS (Like I said) for all I know but that is not how Gathering Intelligence to present up the Chain of Command works. You pass on bad intel/Dis-info one time and tarnish your reputation among your peers and leadership then spend years to redeem themselves.

Just like Cops work with shady "CI's" that lie to them and do things that turn their stomachs you have to get your boots dirty and stinky and learn not to throw the Baby out with the Bath Water because the "Source" turns your stomach (Visceral Response that doesn't last long in professionals, one embarrassing instance of being played will do it for you)... It takes training, experience and more than a few mistakes to become somewhat competent enough to have your assessments in a folder near the top of the stack... I KNOW most Avalonians are not trained Intel Agents and are doing the best they can.

If one can set aside an argument for a moment and decide to begin to learn how these groups think if you want to swim in their waters or go head to head with them you will save yourself some long term confusion and falling into their ideology traps.

The story circulating of the missing flight bodies being recovered at the UK crash sight... that doesn't track at all. If all of the first plane incident Intel is as reported then the bodies were disposed of at Diego Garcia and I will spare you the most used methods to "Erase every Trace" of that many bodies and DNA etc (Mass graves etc leave too much evidence)... The secret governments recruit psychopaths for a reason.

Why would there be bodies as described at the crash scene along with the redacted epidemiologists from the planes manifest (Most likely specimens who died from various stages of a nasty virus... my educated opinion on this matter)? Rumors among all of the agencies is that the Cabal has a bio-weapon/virus/plague that is fast moving and intended to wipe out a large amount of the population that just needs to be delivered... that last statement is based off of these rumors and very real fears based on these rumors that have had more than anecdotal evidence has been offered in briefings about such a "Terror and WMD". Though kind of off topic...

Meanwhile the Cabal is wasting no time positioning itself before any International Investigators produce any results! They have a SMALL WINDOW OF OPPORTUNITY for many reasons and they are not ones to waste any opportunity!

PUTIN GIVEN 48 HOUR ULTIMATUM TO LET INVESTIGATORS PROBE MH17 CRASH SITE, AS CAMERON, MERKEL AND HOLLANDE SAY THEY ARE 'READY' TO HIT RUSSIA WITH FRESH SANCTIONS
http://www.blacklistednews.com/Putin_given_48_hour_ultimatum_to_let_investigators_probe_MH17_crash_site%2C_as_Cameron%2C_Merkel_and _Hollande_say_they_are_%27ready%27_to_hit_Russia_with_fresh_sanctions/36736/0/38/38/Y/M.html

SPECULATIVE EDIT: As a foot note, as a tie in to my Thread on International Banking and Military Intel Types Running for their lives... When I wrote the thread they were first beginning to disappear and go on the run or to their "safe places". This thread was prior to all of the suspicious deaths of bankers and economists and a few Intelligence Operatives... Wouldn't a "Plane Crash" be a perfect way to either fake your death/disappear or actually disappear a person? (Complete and TOTAL speculation on my part, take w/a grain of salt!) :confused:
Thread: Why Are the Bankers and Ex-Intel Types Running For Their Lives? (Confirmed for MONTHS by my vanishing sources);
http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?65952-Why-Are-the-Bankers-and-Ex-Intel-Types-Running-For-Their-Lives--Confirmed-for-MONTHS-by-my-vanishing-sources-

[Selene]

Amazing post, Goode. Very, very well said.

Much thanks,

Selene

[jackovesk]

Wrap your head around this MSM Story...

...........................

MH17 conspiracy theories: What happened to downed Malaysia Airlines plane?

http://resources2.news.com.au/images/2014/03/11/1226851/469178-c685115e-a8bb-11e3-9dd3-54db44ed2f71.jpg

July 21, 2014

WHENEVER there is a tragedy on such a scale as the downed Malaysia Airlines MH17 plane, there are bound to be conspiracy theories that follow as the world tries to understand and deal with the tragedy.

While there’s no doubt many are based simply on paranoia or speculation, they won’t be able to be dismissed until the black box is recovered and the world gets answers.

Here are (6 Conspiracy Theories) about MH17, according to the Washington Post.

1. It was an HIV/AIDS cover up

The terrible news that the plane held prominent HIV/AIDS researchers sparked speculation that it was not a random target. One theory proposed that the attack was a cover-up for the so-called “man-made origins” of AIDS - which is another theory in itself. It has been pointed out that 16 years ago, AIDS patient advocate and World Health official Jonathan Mann was also killed in a plane crash that some still find suspicious.

2. It was an attempt to start WWIII

While it’s not yet clear exactly why the missile was fired at the plane, some believe it was an attempt to bring on the next world war.

“We can clearly see an attempted false flag to launch WWIII unfolding,” a commenter said on the website Before Its News. They also pointed to a Russian tweet predicting the deliberate downing of a plane full of people, as an instigation of a NATO invasion.


https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/459649905493938176/cTBx-PfH_bigger.png Скоро над Руиной будет сбит лайнер битком набитый невинными евро-туристами. Це явится поводом для официального приглашения НАТО. Так вижу.

1:45 AM - 18 Jun 2014

Translation: “Soon will be shot down over the ruins of the liner packed full of innocent Euro-tourists. It will be the occasion for the official invitation to NATO. So I see.”

Though this theory doesn’t make sense, as killing innocent people is not a very stratigic move for NATO.

3. It was an assasination attempt on Putin

Russia’s Interfax news agency claimed that Russian President Vladimir Putin was on board his personal jet and flying on the exact same route as MH17 at the same time. His plane was the same size and colour as the Malaysia Airlines flight.

The claim was debunked with the news that Putin’s plane hadn’t flown over the Ukraine since the beginning of the conflict

http://resources1.news.com.au/images/2014/07/21/1226995/523285-143cbc50-0f0d-11e4-bbaf-47cb7c4f86b3.jpg

Russia's President Vladimir Putin descends from his plane. Source: AFP

4. The jet wasn’t actually shot down

A conspiracy blogger who’s popular on YouTube called DAHB0077 proposed that the plane was actually diverted into the area where it was blown up by explosives from onboard so it could appear to have been shot down. This could then be an excuse for an invasion.

He claims his suspicion was born from footage showing the plane exploding on the ground instead of in the air, but experts say this is actually possible upon the event of a mile-high missile strike.

http://resources1.news.com.au/images/2014/07/21/1226995/522385-2e5fcd2c-0f15-11e4-bbaf-47cb7c4f86b3.jpg

The moments after MH17 was shot out of the sky over the Ukraine. Source: Supplied

5. MH17 is MH370

They’re both Boeing 777s, from the same airline, with a commenter from the forum Above Top Secret stating: “It could be the MH370 rigged with explosives” that has only just reappeared after vanishing for months. Why would they do this? To start WWIII.

6. Many were already dead before the plane took off

This bizarre theory comes from a top pro-Russian rebel commander in eastern Ukraine.

The pro-rebel website Russkaya Vesna quoted Igor Girkin as saying he was told by people at the crash site that “a significant number of the bodies weren’t fresh,” adding that he was told they were drained of blood and reeked of decomposition.

Ultimately, these theories wont’ be true, but the hunt for answers about what really happened to flight MH17 will continue.

http://www.news.com.au/travel/travel-updates/mh17-conspiracy-theories-what-happened-to-downed-malaysia-airlines-plane/story-fnizu68q-1226995523375

PSS - They got close on a couple and left the rest sailing up into the ether as a...


(Conspiratorial 'Cacophony' of Madness)...:crazy:

Did they really say this...


Though this theory doesn’t make sense, as killing innocent people is not a very stratigic move for NATO...:pound:

The INFOWAR

It really is (US vs THEM) isn't it...:yes4:

[Selene]

...they went through the luggage to find passports and determine who was on board...

Collecting passports to find out who was onboard was completely unnecessary. That flight – like all flights – would have had a passenger manifest with all the relevant data on file before it took off.

I don’t know if you fly much, but that little barcode on your boarding pass contains all the data from your passport. Time-stamps are added to your file every time you go through a checkpoint on your way to the plane. That’s all saved in a central file.

And in a crash, first responders are looking for survivors (or sometimes they might be looters looking for goodies. No indication of looting anywhere here). But no one would be looking for ID right off the bat. Those photos of fresh passports and pristine boarding cards were taken within minutes of the crash. Too soon to have been collected on site at any rate.



they actually thought the plane could be carrying ukrainian spies or something

Logic check: The plane was not scheduled to stop in Ukraine. It was going to Malaysia. Why would it be full of “Ukrainian spies”? Logic fail here. Are you trying to somehow imply that it was shot down by Russian, not Ukrainian, forces....? The question of Whodunnit and Why is still open.


Cheers,

Selene

[jackovesk]

What the Media Won’t Report About Malaysian Airlines Flight MH17

July 21, 2014


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8guKpjF9Z-Y&feature=player_embedded
Just days after the tragic crash of a Malaysian Airlines flight over eastern Ukraine, Western politicians and media joined together to gain the maximum propaganda value from the disaster. It had to be Russia; it had to be Putin, they said. President Obama held a press conference to claim – even before an investigation – that it was pro-Russian rebels in the region who were responsible. His ambassador to the UN, Samantha Power, did the same at the UN Security Council – just one day after the crash!

While western media outlets rush to repeat government propaganda on the event, there are a few things they will not report.

THEY WILL NOT REPORT that the crisis in Ukraine started late last year, when EU and US-supported protesters plotted the overthrow of the elected Ukrainian president, Viktor Yanukovych. Without US-sponsored “regime change,” it is unlikely that hundreds would have been killed in the unrest that followed. Nor would the Malaysian Airlines crash have happened.

The media has reported that the plane must have been shot down by Russian forces or Russian-backed separatists, because the missile that reportedly brought down the plane was Russian made. But they will not report that the Ukrainian government also uses the exact same Russian-made weapons.

THEY WILL NOT REPORT that the post-coup government in Kiev has, according to OSCE monitors, killed 250 people in the breakaway Lugansk region since June, including 20 killed as government forces bombed the city center the day after the plane crash! Most of these are civilians and together they roughly equal the number killed in the plane crash. By contrast, Russia has killed no one in Ukraine, and the separatists have struck largely military, not civilian, targets.

THEY WILL NOT REPORT that the US has strongly backed the Ukrainian government in these attacks on civilians, which a State Department spokeswoman called “measured and moderate.”

THEY WILL NOT REPORT that neither Russia nor the separatists in eastern Ukraine have anything to gain but everything to lose by shooting down a passenger liner full of civilians.

THEY WILL NOT REPORT that the Ukrainian government has much to gain by pinning the attack on Russia, and that the Ukrainian prime minister has already expressed his pleasure that Russia is being blamed for the attack.

THEY WILL NOT REPORT that the missile that apparently shot down the plane was from a sophisticated surface-to-air missile system that requires a good deal of training that the separatists do not have.

THEY WILL NOT REPORT that the separatists in eastern Ukraine have inflicted considerable losses on the Ukrainian government in the week before the plane was downed.

THEY WILL NOT REPORT how similar this is to last summer’s US claim that the Assad government in Syria had used poison gas against civilians in Ghouta. Assad was also gaining the upper hand in his struggle with US-backed rebels and the US claimed that the attack came from Syrian government positions. Then, US claims led us to the brink of another war in the Middle East. At the last minute public opposition forced Obama to back down – and we have learned since then that US claims about the gas attack were false.

Of course it is entirely possible that the Obama administration and the US media has it right this time, and Russia or the separatists in eastern Ukraine either purposely or inadvertently shot down this aircraft. The real point is, it’s very difficult to get accurate information so everybody engages in propaganda. At this point it would be unwise to say the Russians did it, the Ukrainian government did it, or the rebels did it. Is it so hard to simply demand a real investigation?

http://www.prisonplanet.com/what-the-media-wont-report-about-malaysian-airlines-flight-mh17.html

[SilentFeathers]

When the truth stares you in the face......

http://gizadeathstar.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/PUTIN-AND-MERKEL-AT-WORLD-CUP-300x168.png
Putin and Merkel at the World Cup Final


Ukraine slates Merkel for ‘cosying up’ to Putin at World Cup as bitter virals compare her to Hitler’s right hand man von Ribbentrop (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2694001/Ukraine-slates-Merkel-cosying-Putin-World-Cup-bitter-virals-compare-Hitler-s-right-hand-man-von-Ribbentrop.html)

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2014/07/16/1405496153220_Image_galleryImage_Merkel_was_compared_to_Ri.JPG

Defiant Putin warns the West not to use MH17 tragedy for 'selfish political ends', as Ukraine accuses Russia of spiriting away shrapnel-hit bodies to avoid implicating rebels (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2699881/Defiant-Putin-warns-West-not-use-MH17-tragedy-selfish-political-ends-Ukraine-accuses-Russia-spiriting-away-shrapnel-hit-bodies-implicate-rebels.html)


Incubating a non-dollar architecture

After two years of intense negotiation, the BRICS leaders finally launched the New Development Bank on July 15 at the Sixth BRICS Summit in Fortaleza, Brazil. The bank’s focus will be on infrastructure and sustainable development projects through loans, guarantees, credits and equity investments. The decision to share the initial subscribed capital of $50 billion and the resulting voting rights equally, reflects a commitment by the five countries to view each other with equity[1].

The launch of the bank will now give the BRICS five confidence to experiment with other geoeconomic ambitions. Chief among them is the desire to conduct trade in local currencies. Russia is moving to denominate its energy assets in roubles, China is pushing for the renminbi to become the global currency of choice for trade payments, and India was creatively using rupee accounts to hold payments for Iran after the U.S. and EU imposed financial sanctions on Iran.

http://www.gatewayhouse.in/incubating-a-non-dollar-architecture/

Hmmm? what's up with this???????????????

Malaysia could overtake BRICs (https://www.accacareers.com/career_centre/malaysia-investment/)


BRICS , Israel and SA's role in world politics

The BRICS bank and the reserve pool as an alternative to the IMF and World Bank offer the possibility for dozens of other nations to escape the Argentine plight. Not to mention the possibility that other emerging nations such as Indonesia, Malaysia, Iran and Turkey may soon contribute to both institutions.
http://www.news24.com/MyNews24/BRICS-Israel-and-SAs-role-in-world-politics-20140718

In a nut shell, it's always about power and money.....

[airaspect]

Passports are held by the owner, usually in a safe place on the person.

They should be, but not always are.


The plane was 30,000+ in the sky

If a rocket had hit it, there would be fragments of the plane over a very large area, probably no fire. [/B]

From what i understand that was exactly the case, as fragments were found up to 15 km from the main crash site. I would still expect fire on the crash site though.



How is it possible for pristine passports to be collected from charred bodies and/or why would there be so many passports in one piece of luggage.[/B]

I agree those passports could not have been collected from the charred bodies. The only explanation i see is some bodies or luggage must have been scattered across a larger area during the fall, away from the crash site, hence avoiding the fire. If a plane, flying at high speed, got hit at 10 km height by a rocket, the pieces should not fall into one place.

Why the assumption all those passports were in the same luggage ?


Let's not search for a false flag on every turn. Things happen by themselves too.

[Daphne]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D1lU8JuJWtM

This just was uploaded. Only 17 views. Don't know if it's real or not.

[SilentFeathers]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D1lU8JuJWtM

This just was uploaded. Only 17 views. Don't know if it's real or not.

It's an old clip, not MH17....

[Daphne]

ok, thanks silentfeathers

[Selene]

Why the assumption all those passports were in the same luggage ?

You've got this backwards, airaspect. GoodeTXSG said that all those passports could have remained pristine if and only if they had been bundled carefully in the center of a luggage case full of clothing - in other words, an impossible condition, an invalid assumption....


For all of the Airline Tickets and Passports to be in mint condition (I do not know of any European's who have Passports in mint condition) and all stacked neatly in one place and were on the aircraft they would have all had to have been inside the same container and packed in a way that the impact didn't crush the corners etc...

I have been at the crash sites of more than a few types of craft both shot down, Engineer or Maintenance Errors, and Weather/Pilot Errors. For items to hit the ground at terminal velocity (Or greater, in this case the plane "Fell") and have no signs of sudden impact damage from rolling is rare unless individually packed in the middle of each passenger's suit case with clothes around them (But we all know you travel w/Passport in hand).

Cheers,

Selene

[Cidersomerset]

A presentation to the press of the situation as seen by the Russian Defence force.
It is interesting and they ask questions of Kiev and the US as they go along.
The interpretor has a strong accent and some words are hard to hear. Near
the end they talk about a US spy ? ( could not understand ) some sort of
experimental space surveillance devise to detect missile launches amongst
other things.

They confirm that Russia has not supplied, the rebels with any anti Aircraft
missile systems, and shows satalitte pictures of Ukrainian missile systems
sites before and after the crash. Also says the film of the missiles on the
lorry and tlr said to be going to Russia , is in fact in the Ukraine and points
out a sign in the picture, and then goes on to ask questions about it.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Malaysian Airlines plane crash: Russian military unveil data on MH17 incident over Ukraine (FULL)

4bNPInuSqfs

Published on 21 Jul 2014


The Russian Defense Ministry holds a press conference on the details of MH17 crash in
eastern Ukraine. Defense Ministry reports that on the day of the catastrophe, a Ukrainian
SU-25 fighter jet gaining height towards the Boeing 777. Calling for Kiev to explain why
the fighter jet was tracking the airplane.

[jackovesk]

Wrap your head around this MSM Story...

...........................

MH17 conspiracy theories: What happened to downed Malaysia Airlines plane?

http://resources2.news.com.au/images/2014/03/11/1226851/469178-c685115e-a8bb-11e3-9dd3-54db44ed2f71.jpg

July 21, 2014

WHENEVER there is a tragedy on such a scale as the downed Malaysia Airlines MH17 plane, there are bound to be conspiracy theories that follow as the world tries to understand and deal with the tragedy.

4. The jet wasn’t actually shot down

A conspiracy blogger who’s popular on YouTube called DAHB0077 proposed that the plane was actually diverted into the area where it was blown up by explosives from onboard so it could appear to have been shot down. This could then be an excuse for an invasion.

He claims his suspicion was born from footage showing the plane exploding on the ground instead of in the air, but experts say this is actually possible upon the event of a mile-high missile strike.

http://resources1.news.com.au/images/2014/07/21/1226995/522385-2e5fcd2c-0f15-11e4-bbaf-47cb7c4f86b3.jpg

The moments after MH17 was shot out of the sky over the Ukraine. Source: Supplied

http://www.news.com.au/travel/travel-updates/mh17-conspiracy-theories-what-happened-to-downed-malaysia-airlines-plane/story-fnizu68q-1226995523375


Here is DAHB0077's latest reply to the Washington post (Hit-Piece)

http://beforeitsnews.com/contributor/upload/5385/images/aev.jpg

Dahboo, fresh off of his appearance in a Washington Post Story (http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-intersect/wp/2014/07/18/a-comprehensive-guide-to-the-webs-many-mh17-conspiracy-theories/) (Before It’s News is ‘honored’ to have been called ‘unabashedly unhinged’ in the same story!), breaks down how we can tell beyond a shadow of a doubt that it was Kiev who set up this failed false flag.


DAHB0077 Quote: "So your telling me that somebody made a video of this plane crashing the day before it crashed, ah ha..?"


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-c__Fm5liCo&feature=player_embedded

Link to his 1st video...
http://beforeitsnews.com/conspiracy-theories/2014/07/boom-mh17-smoking-guns-emerge-kiev-did-it-complete-compilation-of-all-the-evidence-as-mh17-false-flag-falls-apart-2464194.html

[jerry]

The smoking gun Russia Says Has Photos Of Ukraine Deploying BUK Missiles In East, Radar Proof Of Warplanes In MH17 VicinityKSpeo5RcQQo
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-07-21/russia-says-has-photos-ukraine-deploying-buk-missiles-east-rader-proof-warplanes-mh1

[KiwiElf]

Obama is about to make a live address on CNN re the situation (but there seems to be a very long hold up and they're flicking between stories left, right & centre - I won't hold my breath!! ;)), NZ Time 03:12 am, 22-JUL-2014

[KiwiElf]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D1lU8JuJWtM

This just was uploaded. Only 17 views. Don't know if it's real or not.

It's an old clip, not MH17....

Ummm concurred - sorry Daphne - that is a Boeing 747 freighter (not 777) that stalled and crashed on takeoff ages ago ;)

[jerry]

Is this the smoking gun? http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-07-21/russia-says-has-photos-ukraine-deploying-buk-missiles-east-rader-proof-warplanes-mh1

[GoodETxSG]

Passports are held by the owner, usually in a safe place on the person.

They should be, but not always are.

:shocked:
I am sorry, when did they roll back Airline Security 40 years?

Have you ever traveled Internationally from a Western Country US, EU etc country to a non EU country (Eastern Europe, Asia, South America, Africa, Middle East Etc...) and made it through security of both countries (W/out scanning your passport in/out) and after landing in the non Western Country make it through security and allowed to the baggage pick up area (Where there is usually a second screening, some times random opening of your suit case after you have checked into the Country) to open up the checked baggage (Crazy Security Risk!) and open the little lock and dig through your contents and pull out your passport to then bring back to the gate be scanned, stamped and signed?

Do you have any idea of MA's security upon arrival (Especially post Flight 300)? This is the kind of statement I was referring too. If you land in MA you better have have your boarding Pass, Luggage Claim and Passport in hand and out of your carry on when you disembark and ready to present.

There is no point is trying to discuss this further as it has obviously become a reactionary and obstinate debate and not a conversation.

[airaspect]

Why the assumption all those passports were in the same luggage ?

You've got this backwards, airaspect. GoodeTXSG said that all those passports could have remained pristine if and only if they had been bundled carefully in the center of a luggage case full of clothing - in other words, an impossible condition, an invalid assumption....


For all of the Airline Tickets and Passports to be in mint condition (I do not know of any European's who have Passports in mint condition) and all stacked neatly in one place and were on the aircraft they would have all had to have been inside the same container and packed in a way that the impact didn't crush the corners etc...

I have been at the crash sites of more than a few types of craft both shot down, Engineer or Maintenance Errors, and Weather/Pilot Errors. For items to hit the ground at terminal velocity (Or greater, in this case the plane "Fell") and have no signs of sudden impact damage from rolling is rare unless individually packed in the middle of each passenger's suit case with clothes around them (But we all know you travel w/Passport in hand).

Cheers,

Selene

So unless it's individually packed, is it impossible, or is it rare for items not to get damaged ? But let's not pick on words, as I'm not going to pretend i have a good idea what condition to expect from a passport after a 10 km fall. My best guess is most would be damaged, but some might be not.

I do know though that jumping to conclusion about a false flag based on that doubt is highly premature.

[jackovesk]

A presentation to the press of the situation as seen by the Russian Defence force.
It is interesting and they ask questions of Kiev and the US as they go along.
The interpretor has a strong accent and some words are hard to hear. Near
the end they talk about a US spy ? ( could not understand ) some sort of
experimental space surveillance devise to detect missile launches amongst
other thing.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Malaysian Airlines plane crash: Russian military unveil data on MH17 incident over Ukraine (FULL)

4bNPInuSqfs

Published on 21 Jul 2014


The Russian Defense Ministry holds a press conference on the details of MH17 crash in
eastern Ukraine. Defense Ministry reports that on the day of the catastrophe, a Ukrainian
SU-25 fighter jet gaining height towards the Boeing 777. Calling for Kiev to explain why
the fighter jet was tracking the airplane.

:bump:

MUST WATCH if you've been following this Thread...:yes4:

WoW...:shocked:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=leX9GLacmUU&feature=player_embedded
http://i.imgur.com/v9fPt.gif

:hat: :yo:

[airaspect]

Passports are held by the owner, usually in a safe place on the person.

They should be, but not always are.

:shocked:
I am sorry, when did they roll back Airline Security 40 years?

Have you ever traveled Internationally from a Western Country US, EU etc country to a non EU country (Eastern Europe, Asia, South America, Africa, Middle East Etc...) and made it through security of both countries (W/out scanning your passport in/out) and after landing in the non Western Country make it through security and allowed to the baggage pick up area (Where there is usually a second screening, some times random opening of your suit case after you have checked into the Country) to open up the checked baggage (Crazy Security Risk!) and open the little lock and dig through your contents and pull out your passport to then bring back to the gate be scanned, stamped and signed?

Do you have any idea of MA's security upon arrival (Especially post Flight 300)? This is the kind of statement I was referring too. If you land in MA you better have have your boarding Pass, Luggage Claim and Passport in hand and out of your carry on when you disembark and ready to present.

There is no point is trying to discuss this further as it has obviously become a reactionary and obstinate debate and not a conversation.

I did not imply the passport will be in the main luggage, just that it does not have to be on the person at all times. But now that You mention it, after such a fall the documents would probably not be in the owners pockets any more, even if that's where they were when the person started falling.

[Cidersomerset]

Obama is about to make a live address on CNN re the situation (but there seems to be a very long hold up and they're flicking between stories left, right & centre - I won't hold my breath!! ), NZ Time 03:12 am, 22-JUL-2014



probably his advisors have been watching the RT vid above and changing the script.....

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


The Neocons ‘Grand Plan’ and Obama’s Blundering Foreign Policy: ‘An Actor Playing
the Role of a President’?

Saturday 19th July 2014 at 04:24 By david-icke

http://www.davidicke.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/bush-obama-s.jpg

http://www.globalresearch.ca/the-neocons-grand-plan-and-obamas-blundering-foreign-policy-an-actor-playing-the-role-of-a-president/5390624

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"Any advise Mr.Secretary ?? "......


"Ah Ah Ah ! ...Bloody Ruskies ....NO ! "

http://www.davidicke.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/10297666_497748663703953_8410937881202357176_n.jpg

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"You amateurs I showed you how it is really done in Hollywood . No the Oval Office "

http://i.ytimg.com/vi/6NJyjrElWY8/0.jpg

President Reagan's Speech on the Soviet Attack on a Korean Airliner, September 5, 1983

[GoodETxSG]

Ummm, so looking up at the posts... Where you implying the passports were when they were not always kept with a passenger? :confused:

And that is the example of hunting and pecking of info from a thread ignoring the rest of the data for the sake of debate (What ever the title/topic of the threat is) that I pointed out in Post #37 of this Thread, Link to post: http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?73110-BUSTED--Fresh-Passports-Pulled-From-Truck-at-Flight-MH17-Crash-Site-&p=855967&viewfull=1#post855967

:tape2: Time to jump to another thread and find some reason...

This one is going... :flame:

[Tesla_WTC_Solution]

Epic thread, heartbreaking situation -- hard to see how any of the little people are going to come out winners from this one.

LOTS of people talking about this story... even non-PA folks haha.

I would write more but I have to got to a meeting this am. :(

[SilentFeathers]

A presentation to the press of the situation as seen by the Russian Defence force.
It is interesting and they ask questions of Kiev and the US as they go along.
The interpretor has a strong accent and some words are hard to hear. Near
the end they talk about a US spy ? ( could not understand ) some sort of
experimental space surveillance devise to detect missile launches amongst
other thing.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Malaysian Airlines plane crash: Russian military unveil data on MH17 incident over Ukraine (FULL)

4bNPInuSqfs

Published on 21 Jul 2014


The Russian Defense Ministry holds a press conference on the details of MH17 crash in
eastern Ukraine. Defense Ministry reports that on the day of the catastrophe, a Ukrainian
SU-25 fighter jet gaining height towards the Boeing 777. Calling for Kiev to explain why
the fighter jet was tracking the airplane.

:bump:

MUST WATCH if you've been following this Thread...:yes4:



I agree, A MUST WATCH! this is a HUGE Russian response and challenge to the current narrative. I bet the west will do all it can to keep this Russian response/challenge off their main MSM channels.

Although, it is on Reuters already....

UPDATE 2-Russia challenges accusations that Ukraine rebels shot down airliner (http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/07/21/ukraine-crisis-russia-ministry-idUSL6N0PW3LH20140721)

[ThePythonicCow]

Malaysian Airlines plane crash: Russian military unveil data on MH17 incident over Ukraine (FULL)

4bNPInuSqfs

Is this the smoking gun? http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-07-21/russia-says-has-photos-ukraine-deploying-buk-missiles-east-rader-proof-warplanes-mh1
Same report ... of Russia's evidence and questions for the Ukraine government, via Zerohedge.

If there are global controllers behind all this, then they have apparently determined to have Russia be the credible one these days, and the US be the propaganda spewing liar and tyrant.

[ThePythonicCow]

Although, it is on Reuters already....

UPDATE 2-Russia challenges accusations that Ukraine rebels shot down airliner (http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/07/21/ukraine-crisis-russia-ministry-idUSL6N0PW3LH20140721)
I like the closing words of this Reuters report:
Kiev later said it stood by its accusations.

"There is evidence that the missile which struck the plane was fired by terrorists, who received arms and specialists from the Russian Federation," said Andriy Lysenko, a spokesman for Ukraine's Security Council.
Yes, Mr Lysenko, I am sure there is such evidence, and I am sure your government knows full well that there is such evidence.

They planted it :).