Malaysian Plane MH17 shot down with over 295 on board. But by who?

[Tesseract]

I bet the hypocrites are scrambling to get their hands on these black boxes
Yup - part of the "proper and thorough" (or whatever such words he used) investigation that Kerry wants - control the evidence and control the narrative.


Hmmmm and what "other" type of weaponry is Israel using to achieve it? Is it "Iron Beam,"? A Tesla-based particle beam weapon (also discussed in the latest Series 7 Episode 2 of Ancient Aliens)? This photo is allegedly "a recent attack" on Gaza... what IS THIS?

26703


The EricsonReport website shows this image of an unusual explosion which allegedly hit Gaza recently, posing the question, "what kind of weapon does this?" Ideas anyone?

http://www.ericsonreport.com/what-kind-of-weapon-does-this/

(Apologies for getting off topic) :offtopic:


It would be better if we knew the exposure of the camera that captured that frame.

Given the intense white light being emitted by the material arcing away from the center, it is reasonable to argue that the temperature of that material is extremely high, probably thousands of degrees. That suggests an incindiary material, like thermite, air-magnesium, air-aluminum, or similar. Alternatively, if you want to take the view of this being some kind of neoteric weapon - it suggests the material at the strike point was heated up to extreme temperatures and is being sputtered away.

But, I don't think it is a laser or particle beam, since the incoming trajectory appears to be influenced by gravity, and see image below (not sure if this is the same event):

26705

The above image is described as an Israeli rocket by the guardian: http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jul/17/gaza-crisis-humanitarian-truce-due-to-start-live-updates


This video shows what are also described as Israeli rockets flying over the gazs strip at night:


pFdBtZgnHlE

You can imagine if the exposure of the camera was high enough, and the point of view close enough, the path of such a 'rocket' would appear as a bright, slightly curved streak - which is does.

An incindiary warhead might be designed to cause ignition of any ammunition at the scene of the attack. This is what happened when depleted Uranium was fired into Iraqi tanks in the gulf war - the white hot tiny fragments of dU would set off the tank rounds and blow up the tank. Or this might just be a new incindiary weapon that Israel is testing for the sake of it, which is something they use their attacks on Gaza for. It could even be one of the US-made white phosphorous tank shells (although angle of incidence looks a little too high for that).

[Observer1964]

Video showing how manipulated info was used at the united nations speech

http://www.czarina.nl/petersburg/insudok/ned/oekraine_bestanden/desinformatie.mp4

[Operator]

Video showing how manipulated info was used at the united nations speech

http://www.czarina.nl/petersburg/insudok/ned/oekraine_bestanden/desinformatie.mp4

That's why you have to be very aware how you are going to appear in the media. In this video we see
examples of how media is exploited to fabricate negative or positive impressions.
(That's why operators prefer to work behind the cameras :p)

Now I think that Timmermans knows very well what happened with Jaap de Hoop Scheffer (http://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jaap_de_Hoop_Scheffer) (also a
minister of foreign affairs) after he as one of the first visited Bush to support plans to invade Iraq.

http://georgewbush-whitehouse.archives.gov/news/releases/2006/03/images/20060320-1_p032006kh-0062a-515h.jpg

Shortly after that he was appointed as secretary-general of the NATO from 2004 till 2009. And
according Wikipedia he then also became a frequent visitor of Bilderberg (2003, 2005, 2007 en 2009).

So ... while for open goal ... scoring a goal looks good on your resume, perhaps a nice function in
the EU someday. I think he might even not be acting this out, he really believes he's doing the right
thing ... perhaps even more dangerous :(

[sigma6]

This would explain why it appears to have "exploded" while there is no evidence of a missile trail from anyone's satellite imagery, and supports the SU-25 trailing the plane, or an Israeli fighter, since by now it's pretty obvious SOMEONE has pretty sophisticated RADAR JAMMING technology.

Revelations of German Pilot:
Shocking Analysis of the “Shooting Down” of Malaysian MH17.
“Aircraft Was Not Hit by a Missile”

http://www.globalresearch.ca/german-pilot-speaks-out-shocking-analysis-of-the-shooting-down-of-malaysian-mh17/5394111

The facts speak clear and loud and are beyond the realm of speculation: The cockpit shows traces of shelling! You can see the entry and exit holes. The edge of a portion of the holes is bent inwards. These are the smaller holes, round and clean, showing the entry points most likely that of a 30 millimeter caliber projectile. The edge of the other, the larger and slightly frayed exit holes showing shreds of metal pointing produced by the same caliber projectiles. Moreover, it is evident that at these exit holes of the outer layer of the double aluminum reinforced structure are shredded or bent – outwardly! Furthermore, minor cuts can be seen, all bent outward, which indicate that shrapnel had forcefully exited through the outer skin from the inside of the cockpit. The open rivets are are also bent outward.

http://www.anderweltonline.com/fileadmin/_processed_/csm_topelement_47299592d2.jpg (http://www.anderweltonline.com/fileadmin/user_upload/PDF/Cockpit-MH017.pdf)
(click on image to get a close-up pdf downloadable image file)


Unfortunately this IS the war... If we are smart enough to accept it, and they can only shoot down so many planes... People will have to die. The question is are we going to allow the deaths of a few hundred people (that we can't stop until the people pull their heads out of the sand) or are we going to start a war that will cause hundreds of thousands of deaths.

I just read that Norway now has NO DEBT. So despite the Oslo Norway attack by the nutjob Freemason who was supposed to don the Police uniform AFTER KILLING the kids... remember how within minutes the Media was already calling it a Muslim terrorist attack REMEMBER that!!... This is one SCANDAL the Media wants people to forget about... The guy gave away their whole modus operandi and admitted being connected to an organization. All ignored by the police, courts, and media (all Freemason controlled)

Anyhow that may have been the reason for the attack... They weren't playing ball. So some people died, the terrorist threat didn't work. And NOW they are debt free, and they control their corporations, NOT the other way around...

US Fiscal Debate Could Learn From Norway
http://truth-out.org/opinion/item/14434-us-fiscal-debate-could-learn-from-norway

[Hervé]

...

No bullet holes...

Front landing gear bay door:

https://i.embed.ly/1/display/resize?key=1e6a1a1efdb011df84894040444cdc60&url=%2F%2Ffarm4.static.flickr.com%2F3914%2F14725463561_c51f58d4e9_z.jpg&width=490
https://storify.com/vpkivimaki/mh17-hull-parts

[Hervé]

[...]

Now, somewhere in this thread, there is a post that mentioned or linked to one of these TV series that demonstrate or debunk urban legends as depicted in Hollywood movies.

One of the thing they set to settle was to verify if a bullet shot through the fuselage would end up creating a catastrophic depressurization and rip a plane apart as Hollywood so loves to do.

[...]

All right, found the reference:


Black Box Proves Missile Didn’t Do It (http://www.veteranstoday.com/2014/07/27/notes-on-mh17/)

by Gordon Duff, Senior Editor (http://www.veteranstoday.com/staff-writers)

Scroll down for our update on “explosive decompression” and aircraft cannon coverage. Simply put, shrapnel or “fragmentation” can’t blow an airplane apart. Bullets have little effect and even blowing out a door or window won’t do much. However, a moderate bomb can do much, as you can check below. A bigger bomb now seems to be the answer and, just perhaps, the missile seen below as a way of trying to blame Russia.

Read the new material supplied by Los Alamos National Labs. If you have questions, list them and we will endeavor to get you the answers.

Reporting on Malaysian Airlines flight MH17 has become childish, irresponsible and many have actually decided to invent wild stories even worse than the government/AIPAC lies.

Some such stories are on Veterans Today, stories totally unresearched, stories that are groundless and based on speculation and bad brain chemistry. Such stories push our editorial limits as they are no more than spam.

We have made note of several findings thus far. We have noted that were a missile used, an exhaust trail would have been visible for many miles and would have been photographed. It was not and, thus, never existed. Locals were questioned, none saw a launch nor exhausts.


[...]

Explosive Decompression from “Shrapnel” Debunked

Explosive decompression (ED) refers to a sudden marked drop in the pressure of a system that occurs in less than 0.1 seconds, associated with explosive violence.

Generally it results from some sort of material fatigue or engineering failure, causing a contained system to suddenly vent into the external atmosphere.

Seals in high pressure vessels are also susceptible to explosive decompression; the rubber gaskets used to seal pressurized pipelines tend to become saturated with high-pressure gases. If the pressure inside the vessel is suddenly released, then the gases within the rubber gasket may expand violently, causing blistering or explosion of the material. For this reason, it is common for military and industrial equipment to be subjected to an explosive decompression test before it is certified as safe for use.

The pressure drop in other situations often takes longer than 0.1 second, and is then more accurately described as rapid decompression. Well known examples of explosive decompression are the Buford Dolphin diving bell accident and the Turkish Airlines Flight 981 disaster.

Misunderstandings of the meaning of the words are quite likely to be a fueling factor for a persistent myth that humans would explode if exposed to the non-pressure of space. Accidents in space exploration research and high-altitude aviation have shown that while vacuum exposure causes swelling, human skin is tough enough to handle a drop of one ATM [1 Atmosphere = barometric pressure at sea level]. A sudden drop of eight ATM in the Buford Dolphin accident had intensely fatal results.

Source(s):
National and international standards for explosive decompression testing include:
MIL-STD-810, 202
RTCA/D0-160
NORSOK M710
API 17K and 17J
NACE TM0192 and TM0297
TOTALELFFINA SP TCS 142 Appendix
———————————————————————————————————————————
Aloha Airlines Flight 243 http://mail.aol.com/38683-111/aol-6/en-us/mail/get-attachment.aspx?uid=34152972&folder=NewMail&partId=3 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Aloha_Airlines_Flight_243_fuselage.png) Fuselage of Aloha Airlines Flight 243 after the explosive decompression (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uncontrolled_decompression#Explosive_decompression).

Accident summary:
Date..................... 28 April 1988
Summary............... Explosive decompression (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uncontrolled_decompression#Explosive_decompression) caused by fatigue failure
Site...................... Kahului (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kahului), Hawaii (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hawaii)
Passengers............ 90
Crew.................... 5
Injuries (non-fatal). 65
Fatalities.............. 1
Survivors.............. 94
Aircraft type......... Boeing 737-297 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_737#737-200)
Aircraft name........ Queen Liliuokalani (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liliuokalani)
Operator.............. Aloha Airlines (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aloha_Airlines) Registration (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aircraft_registration) N73711 (http://aviation-safety.net/database/registration/regsearch.php?regi=N73711)
Flight origin.......... Hilo Int’l Airport (ITO) (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hilo_International_Airport)
Destination.......... Honolulu Int’l Airport (HNL (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honolulu_International_Airport)


Aloha Airlines Flight 243 (AQ 243, AAH 243) was a scheduled Aloha Airlines (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aloha_Airlines) flight between Hilo (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hilo) and Honolulu (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honolulu) in Hawaii. On April 28, 1988, a Boeing 737-297 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_737#737-297) serving the flight suffered extensive damage after an explosive decompression (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uncontrolled_decompression#Explosive_decompression) in flight, but was able to land safely at Kahuna Airport (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kahului_Airport) on Maui (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maui). There was one fatality, flight attendant Clara belle “C.B.” Lansing, who was swept overboard from the airplane. Another 65 passengers and crew were injured.

The safe landing of the aircraft despite the substantial damage inflicted by the decompression established Aloha Airlines Flight 243 as a significant event in the history of aviation, with far-reaching effects on aviation safety (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aviation_safety) policies and procedures.

——————————————————————————————————————————

The Truth About Explosive Decompression (http://gadgetopia.com/post/2606)

By Deena Barker (https://plus.google.com/+DeaneBarker) on July 7, 2004

Is it true that if you shoot a bullet through the skin of an airliner in flight, everyone would get sucked out the little hole? If not, Hollywood has a lot of explaining to do.

Adam and Jamie from Myth busters on the Discovery Channel (http://dsc.discovery.com/fansites/mythbusters/mythbusters.html) set out the other night to find out if this was true. The myth is based on the fact that an airliner at 35,000 feet is like a balloon flying through the air — the air pressure on the inside (pushing out against the inside of the plane) is much higher than the ambient air pressure at that altitude.

When you pierce the skin of a balloon with a pin, the whole thing pops. The pressurized air inside the balloon rushes out with such force that it “grabs” the edges of the hole as it leaves and tears the balloon apart in an instant. The same should be true for an airliner, right? And everything in the plane should go rushing out the hole, right?

No. Myth busters proved this wasn’t the case, thus proving wrong several dozen action movies and at least one James Bond film (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0058150/). And, true to Myth buster’s style, they proved this point with a veritable tidal wave of geekiness.

They went to an airline graveyard in the Mohave Desert and found an old Hawaiian Airlines 737. They sealed it up, then brought in a massive air compressor and pumped the plane full of air until the difference between the interior of the plane and the air at sea level was the same as it would be if the plane was flying at 35,000 feet.

Now the cool part — inside the plane, they had parked their crash-test dummy, Buster, in a window seat. In the aisle, they rigged up a Glock 9mm to a firing mechanism and pointed it at the hull of the plane. Then, with the plane fully pressurized, they fired the gun remotely.

What happened? Nothing. Sure, the air rushed out, but even Styrofoam peanuts they had placed in the aisle didn’t move, much less Buster. They did the test a second time, this time firing through the window right next to Buster. Same result — nothing.

Not satisfied (I love it when they’re not satisfied…), they rigged explosive cord around the window to simulate the window blowing out due to structural failure. They pressurized the plane again and blew the window.

The results were much more satisfying — Buster got his arm yanked out the window. Crash test dummies aren’t designed to come apart, but if he were a human, I think he would have lost his arm. However, the rest of his body just wasn’t going through the window, no matter what the myth said.

Still not satisfied, Adam and Jamie put a “shaped charge” (whatever that is) against the hull next to Buster’s knee. Plane pressurized once again, they blew the charge.

Now, I don’t know how much damage was from the charge and how much was from the air rushing out, but the entire roof came off the plane. Buster, believe it or not, was still belted in his chair, but there was a 20-foot section of the roof missing. That plane was toast, and it looked eerily similar to Aloha Airlines flight 243 that lost its roof in mid-flight back in 1988.

So, myth busted.

However, they didn’t address one thing: the drop in air pressure caused by the velocity of the air outside the plane. You see, the entire concept of flight is based on the fact that air pressure goes down as the speed of the air goes up.

So when a hole gets blown in the side of the plane, even after all the air rushes out and the pressure of the plane is equal to the ambient air pressure at that altitude, you now have 600 m.p.h. air rushing past the hole, which would have a much lower air pressure than the stationary air inside the plane.
———————————————————————————————————————————

So... Kiev and "Black-Box" interpreters may not be lying at all... if they are making a pun on the word "EXPLOSIVE" as in catastrophic decompression generated by an on-board bomb....

[Cidersomerset]

A Bit of Ethnic cleansing being discussed 1.5 million surplus people in
the Donetsk region.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------


Bogdan Boutkevitch: You need to kill 1.5 million people in Donbass, Eastern Ukraine

Monday 4th August 2014 at 09:14 By david-icke



‘Taken from the Ukrainian TV Station hromadske TV,
financed by the Dutch and US Embassies in Kiev.’


S9SOVarOFJk


====================================================


This may have already been posted in parts.......



Kiev’s U.S. ‘Satellite Images’ of Ukraine Are From A ‘Video Game’!

Monday 4th August 2014 at 09:05 By david-icke



‘Frames issued by the Ukrainian media as recordings by American satellites are the
screenshots of the computer game Flaming Cliffs 2.

This is not the first time that the Ukrainian side, distorting facts, gives some
pictures or videos for others.’

p3ixCCfb7eU



The U.S. Has Repeatedly Lied About Satellite Photographs as a Justification for War


http://www.davidicke.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/030814sat.jpg


‘U.S. government claims that satellite photographs prove that Russian separatists
are responsible for the shootdown of the Malaysian airplane over Ukraine, and that
Russia has fired artillery into Ukraine.


Russia claims that the photos are fake.

While we don’t have the necessary expertise to know who’s right, it’s worth noting
that the U.S. government has repeatedly lied about satellite photos as a basis for
war.’

Read more …

http://www.prisonplanet.com/the-u-s-has-repeatedly-lied-about-satellite-photographs-as-a-justification-for-war.html

[Cidersomerset]

Evidence Conclusive: Ukraine Military Shot Down MH17 In False Flag Operation

Monday 4th August 2014 at 09:12 By david-icke


http://www.davidicke.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/get-attachment-282-587x396.jpg


‘There is now a growing body of irrefutable evidence which points directly to the MH17 shoot
down being a classic false flag operation. Each piece of evidence definitively places at least
three nations at the scene of both the crime and the cover-up.

Whereas the Ukraine government and military executed this cold-blooded murder of innocent
civilians, most likely under the direct supervision of the CIA, the US and UK governments have
been implementing the non-stop coverup and false flag operation.’

What follows is a step-by-step refutation of the fake evidence advanced by the US, as well as
a presentation of the true facts of this heinous crime. The chronology of events is particularly
telling in how it chisels out the circumstantial, yet solid case, against the US/UK and Ukraine
as co-conspirators.


Rather than deconstruct each element of this fastidiously planned and coordinated conspiracy
to shoot down a commercial airliner, the following headlines are presented in a manner that
tell the real story. First, a short summary of the key evidences:


Summary of Evidence

Malaysian Flight MH17, a Boeing 777 carrying a diverse group of civilian nationals, departed
from Amsterdam en route to the Indonesian city of Jogjakarta. At some point upon entering
Ukraine airspace it’s flight path was deliberately changed. As the airliner neared the area of
the Eastern Ukraine, where rebels were known to be fighting the government forces, it was
strafed or shelled by a military jet which has since been caught flying in quite close proximity to it.


http://cdn.storyleak.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/parte-del-fuselaje-del-avion-derribado-en-ucrania-_595_400_1113812.jpg


The entire region has been very closely monitored by the US, NATO, and Russia by satellite
and radar throughout the entire conflict. Therefore, it is implausible that there was a missile
fired at MH17. Clearly, the satellite imagery/data and radar signatures would corroborate such
a missile attack. The US, NATO and Ukraine have all failed thus far to produce this authentic
evidence because it does not exist.

Immediately after the shoot down, the US, UK and Ukraine then went into overdrive introducing
false and fabricated evidence at every turn. Everything from fake satellite images to fraudulent
radar reports, from forged social network posts to fallacious stories about Russia’s involvement,
from false accusations lodged by US ‘statesmen’ to fictitious conspiracies attributed to the rebels,
were seeded throughout the internet to build a case against innocent parties.

What has distinguished this classic CIA-coordinated false flag operation from their other recent
international crimes against humanity is the barrage of fake evidence generated so hastily in the
wake of the mass murder of civilians. Because this was not technically a war crime, it carried the
additional weight of being falsely attributed to Russia and rebels, so odious was the premeditation
and calculated effects on the world community.

First And Foremost This False Flag Was Perpetrated By The US To Smear Russia

Through the following series of headlines, there is a patently false narrative which emerges with
greater relief with each subsequent story. With each exposé, the revelations demonstrate that
there was a plot woven in Washington, London and Kiev to implicate Russia in a nonexistent missile
attack. Which is exactly why the US and NATO has refused to release any real evidence. Their
scheme from the start was to let loose an avalanche of fabricated evidence pointing to Russia so
that the real facts on the ground would be quickly lost, or misinterpreted, or ignored … and then
not even considered in the frenzy to attribute blame.

For the uninitiated this is precisely how false flags always evolve. No hard or factual evidence is
ever presented which can be objectively evaluated. A literal barrage of false evidence is disseminated,
using every organ of the global mainstream media (MSM), to impugn those nations or parties that
have been targeted.

The execution of this Shock & Awe strategy is always initiated in the English-speaking capitals of the
world, which is why they have a pact not to spy on each other. In this particular case all of the major
newspapers of record throughout the US and UK have orchestrated a propaganda assault on Russia.
Each of the MSM news platforms in New York City and Washington, London and Sydney have been
operating in collusive journalistic overdrive to accuse Russia of crimes and conspiracy of which they
themselves are in fact guilty of.

After a few weeks of this staggering Shock & Awe media stratagem, the world has been so overwhelmed
with the false narrative it is vulnerable to being led down the same road to a “trial by media”. Since
those who control the MSM ensure that the true facts are never revealed, the only conclusion that the
community of nations can ‘officially’ come to is what has been fancifully been printed by the press. Of
course, all of the fabricated print fiction is then translated into even more ‘damning’ video coverage
further incriminating innocent Russia.

As for the real inside story as to both motivation and implementation, the two stories below speak volumes:

FIRST: George W. Bush, Tony Blair found guilty of war crimes … in Malaysia; THEN: Malaysia Airliner
Missile Strike(s): Was it MH-17 or MH-370?

FIRST: Nine EU countries to block economic sanctions against Russia & THEN: White House Blames Russia
For MH17 Crash, Saying There’s No Believable Alternative

Here are some other headlines each of which acts as a dot on the radar screen of truth. When these dots
of fact are properly connected there is only one possible conclusion. The US, UK and Ukraine conspired to
frame Russia for a crime against humanity in order to further marginalize Russia and demonize Vladimir
Putin. As one weeds through the morass of calculated propaganda and prevarication spewing from London
and Washington, the intention to cast Russia as a pariah state is clear. At the end of the day, it is only
through shocking state-sponsored terrorism events by the West that such a process of demonization can
be effectuated so quickly and convincingly.

putin pariah



Back to the evidence, both false and genuine, these articles paint a picture which cannot be denied.
While this false flag operation has been successful thus far at vilifying Russia, this very dynamic and
evolving story is far from over.

Downing Of Flight MH 17: False Flag Operation To Blame Russia?

Was Putin Really Being Targeted?

Was Vladimir Putin’s plane targeted?

Who shot down the Malaysian jet over Ukraine?

Why are commercial airliners flying over war zones?

MH17 Was Barely Above Restricted Airspace When It Was Shot Down

Kiev Behind Malaysian Flight Shoot Down?

Malaysian Plane Crash: Lies and Sinister Political Agenda by the West

Russia Has Photos Of Ukraine Deployment Of BUK Missile System In East

Key Piece of Video “Evidence” for Russian Responsibility for Malaysian Plane Shootdown Debunked

Western leadership shot down in Ukraine

Is the U.S. Withholding Evidence that Ukrainian Troops Shot Down MH17? What Did US
Spy Satellites See in Ukraine?

‘Kiev will have to answer many questions’ as UN urges intl MH17 crash probe – Moscow

Malaysian Airlines MH17 Was Ordered to Fly over the East Ukraine War Zone

FLIGHT MH17 – Kiev Flash Mob’s Final False Flag?

China Blasts “One-Sided Western Rush To Judge Russia” Over MH17

Ron Paul says ‘Not so fast!’ Re: MH17 Accusations

Onslaught Of Western Powers MH17 Propaganda Reaches ‘Shock & Awe’ Proportions

Putin And Merkel Agree On International MH17 Probe, Bypass US

The West’s Reckless Rush Towards War With Russia

The following stories really get to the hard evidence that points to US-UK-Ukraine complicity
in regard to both the international crime and cover-up.

Radar Signatures And Satellite Imagery Of MH17 Shoot Down Reveals Critical Information

Ukrainian Su-25 fighter detected in close approach to MH17 before crash – Moscow

US Claims of Flight MH17 Downing by Militia Remain Unfounded – Russia’s Defense Ministry

MH17 HOAX: Crash Scene Evidence Reveals No Boeing-777 Engine

MH17 Shrapnel and Machine Gun-Like Holes Indicate Military Aircraft Shoot Down

Black Box Proves Missile Didn’t Do It

‘Wrong time, altered images’: Moscow slams Kiev’s MH17 satellite data

Photos of MH17 Cockpit Prove No Missile, But Shelling Brought Down Airliner

Was MH17 brought down by a hidden bomb on the plane?

Russia Accuses US Of Fabricating MH17 Evidence As US Reveals More “Evidence”
Of Russian Military Involvement




Each Article Contains Critical Info That Fits Into The US-UK-Ukraine Conspiracy Plot

Such a conspiracy could only have been cooked up in the bowels of CIA headquarters at
Langley. After all, John Brennan — CIA Director — has admitted to making a secret visit
to Kiev just before the military hostilities broke out between Eastern and Western Ukraine.

White House Admits CIA Director Brennan Was “Secretly” In Kiev

Conclusion:

The real evidence is now stacking up which proves Western (as in Western powers and
Western Ukraine) culpability for the shooting down of Malaysian Flight MH17. There is
no other conclusion which can be drawn from both the hard and circumstantial evidence
except that the Ukraine military committed this atrocity. Why they perpetrated such a
‘war crime’ can only be understood by their relationship to the Anglo-American Axis of
power and control.

This axis of global power exerts extraordinary influence over worldwide media. In so
doing they are able to saturate the MSM with any narrative they choose. In the case
of MH17, their selected target was Russia … for many obvious reasons. Their MO is
quite familiar in that the Anglo-American media outlets simply inundate their respective
audiences with propaganda and prevarication so that their is no space (both literally
and figuratively) on either print or video platforms for any dissenting coverage. After
these now predictable Shock & Awe initiatives have been seen through, the public
perceptions have then been sufficiently molded so that the same Western Powers can
hold their preplanned kangaroo courts … … … by the press and within the various
global media forums.

What every country in the world ought to be asking themselves is how such a heinous
crime could be committed by governments which continually present themselves as
taking the moral high ground. These very same Western governments have been
circumstantially implicated in many other major state-sponsored terrorist events by
virtue of the fact that only they could have possibly executed such technically difficult,



prohibitively expensive and highly labor and material intensive false flag operations.

It’s about time the community of nations stood together against these rogue governments.
Each of them must be held accountable for the killing of so many innocents in the interest
of furthering their intentions to wage war for economic gain. Their multi-decade,
international crime spree must be brought to a halt before they lay waste to even larger
swaths of the planetary terrain.

Michael Thomas
August 3, 2014
StateoftheNation2012.com


Read more: http://www.storyleak.com/evidence-conclusive-ukraine-military-shot-down-mh17-in-false-flag-operation/#ixzz39QigtM5D



Read more: Evidence Conclusive: Ukraine Military Shot Down MH17 In False Flag Operation

http://www.storyleak.com/evidence-conclusive-ukraine-military-shot-down-mh17-in-false-flag-operation/

[Cidersomerset]

Over 400 Ukrainian soldiers flee to Russia, ask for refuge

E-OsrCkXTNY

Published on 4 Aug 2014


A total of 438 soldiers, including 164 Ukrainian border guards have been allowed
to cross into Russia on Sunday night after they requested sanctuary.
RT correspondent Marina Kosareva has the details.

===================================================


http://static.bbci.co.uk/frameworks/barlesque/2.64.0/desktop/3.5/img/blq-blocks_grey_alpha.png

4 August 2014 Last updated at 17:54

Many Ukraine soldiers cross into Russia amid shellingUkrainian troops patrol 30km
(20 miles) from Donetsk, 31 July 2014


http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/76711000/jpg/_76711114_3c4d4efc-9e8e-411c-a979-f0f7a4cbf772.jpg

Ukrainian government forces are pushing closer towards rebel-held Donetsk


More than 300 Ukrainian troops have crossed into Russia during heavy fighting with
pro-Russian separatists.

A Ukrainian security spokesman, Andriy Lysenko, said the 311 soldiers and border
guards "had to cross into Russian territory" at the Gukovo checkpoint in eastern
Ukraine.

Ukraine is trying to get them back now through diplomatic channels, he said.

Earlier a Russian security official said 438 Ukrainian troops had been given refuge
in Russia as "defectors".

The border area is very tense amid Ukrainian allegations that Russian forces have
been helping the separatists with rocket barrages.

Russia has announced that it will hold an air force exercise this week near the
border. A Russian defence ministry spokesman said 100 aircraft would take part in
the operation.

The Russian foreign ministry meanwhile accused Ukrainian forces of deploying
tactical missiles and launchers near the city of Donetsk.

http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/76671000/gif/_76671157_ukraine_rebel_control_624_latest(1).gif

BBC map
In his statement on the Ukrainian troops at the border Mr Lysenko, spokesman for
Ukraine's National Security and Defence Council (SNBO), dismissed Russia's claim that the troops had defected.

He also denied reports that the separatists had captured some Ukrainian National
Guard servicemen during the fighting.

Another Ukrainian military spokesman said the group of soldiers had retreated into
Russia after running out of ammunition and other supplies during the fighting. He
said they belonged to the 72nd motorised brigade.

Recently Kiev has been gaining ground against the rebels and claims to have
retaken more than 60 towns in Donetsk and Luhansk.

Preparing for siege

Civilians are preparing for a siege as government forces close in on the rebel-held
cities of Donetsk and Luhansk.

Residents are stockpiling food and supplies and are sleeping in basements, with
reports suggesting Luhansk is virtually surrounded and without power.


http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/76739000/jpg/_76739149_rebelscrashreut.jpg

Rebels at crash site, 4 Aug 14 Pro-Russian rebels are patrolling the huge MH17 crash site


Meanwhile, more than 100 experts from the Netherlands and Australia have
continued searching the crash site of Flight MH17, in a rebel-held area close to the
fighting.

More human remains and belongings from the Malaysia Airlines jet shot down last
month were flown to the Netherlands on Monday.

Remains of more than 200 victims have been transferred to the Netherlands for
identification. Up to 80 bodies are believed to be still at the site.

Read more...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-28637569

[Hervé]

...

No bullet holes...

Front landing gear bay door:

https://i.embed.ly/1/display/resize?key=1e6a1a1efdb011df84894040444cdc60&url=%2F%2Ffarm4.static.flickr.com%2F3914%2F14725463561_c51f58d4e9_z.jpg&width=490
https://storify.com/vpkivimaki/mh17-hull-parts




https://www.metabunk.org/sk/143837__100_Layer_2_RGB8__2014-07-26_08-43-10_2014-07-26_08-45-06.jpg


http://img68.imageshack.us/img68/3361/img031pkx0.jpg

http://img68.imageshack.us/img68/4264/img031tan3.jpg

http://img134.imageshack.us/img134/6659/img031uei8.jpg

http://www.f-16.net/forum/download/file.php?id=10212&sid=be17112d0e100fd0c0fafe95da15cb1b&mode=view
SUV accidentally shot by 20mm training rounds (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/20_mm_caliber) from an F-16...
From: http://www.f-16.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=32&t=10304&start=30


Bullet comparison of the .223 Rem (left), .338 lapua, 50BMG and 20mm Vulcan
http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2007/10/bulletsizes-tm.jpg (http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2007/10/bulletsizes.jpg)


imagine 30mmm (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/30_mm_caliber)...

http://i196.photobucket.com/albums/aa212/E69_xifu/leche.jpg


So, any evidence of 30mm holes at the MH17-9M-MRD crash site?

None that I have seen yet but, especially, none of the ones which have been palmed off as being so!

[Hervé]

Now, for comparison's sake, some SAM shrapnel peppered at an A-10 "Warthog" after being hit over Baghdad and which was landed safely by this here Ace Pilot :


http://www.win-vector.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/Reed-Campbell.jpg


http://www.chickenwingscomics.com/forum/index.php?PHPSESSID=2b970089e8c5972f1672b4c42f456599&action=dlattach;topic=110.0;attach=74;image


http://www.chickenwingscomics.com/forum/index.php?PHPSESSID=2b970089e8c5972f1672b4c42f456599&action=dlattach;topic=110.0;attach=75;image

http://www.chickenwingscomics.com/forum/index.php?PHPSESSID=2b970089e8c5972f1672b4c42f456599&action=dlattach;topic=110.0;attach=76;image

http://forums.airforce.ru/attachments/holodnaya-voina/27818d1287783295-a10_02.jpg/


So...

... was it a duck, was it a plane or was it a Buk?

Here are some account from eye witnesses:


I'd love to hear the entire interview with the local in the yellow shirt.@ 1:32 the audio cuts in with this guy speaking and it sounds like he is implying that he saw a second plane: "the plane, which was encroaching... it appears was going nearby it [MH17] then approached him around and from the front [shows a hook gesture with his right hand going in front and around his left hand @ 1:36]"

Russian language just like French or German has three genders for objects. The guy was definitely not talking about a missile because rocket in Russian is of a feminine gender. He was talking about another plane "him" - masculine gender. So this was likely one of the witnesses from whom the story about an attack plane started.

He goes on to mention that seconds after both MH17 and "second plane" entered significant clouds (that obscured all the view for the guy) there was an explosion and pieces started falling.

Once I reviewed the video again I noticed another fragment when it appears that he talks about this second plane.

0:28 - here he states that no one actually saw the big plane (MH17). Second voice behind the camera also states "the big one [MH17] was not visible"

0:38 - "it was very far. it was just a dot. he [it = second plane, not a missile, which is a "she"] dived into the clouds"

0:41 - repeats hand gesture, and restates "flew [he, not she] into the clouds"

1:07 they are not near the main crash site. I think they are near the business class section. they are talking about bodies that were falling out of the falling debris. 37 bodies in total just in that area surrounding where they stand.

In no part of the video it is absolutely perfectly clear that the guy in a yellow shirt and his friend talk about two distinct airplanes. This is because neither of them make comments such as "first plane", "second plane", "another plane", "interceptor", "attacker" or anything like that. Nonetheless, it does sound a lot like they are talking about two planes. If the full video was available then it would have been much clearer.

While I hear that the witness is stating that he saw what he believes was a second plane, I personally continue to support the theory that it was a missile from the BUK, and that at an altitude of almost 10KM a trail of a large missile did resemble a trail of an interceptor jet.
Last edited: Jul 23, 2014
LarryLat (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/members/larrylat.5258/),Jul 23, 2014 (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/threads/mh17-evidence-a-missile-was-used-shrapnel-etc.3997/page-2#post-117927)
#73 (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/threads/mh17-evidence-a-missile-was-used-shrapnel-etc.3997/page-2#post-117927)

A blog (http://avva.livejournal.com/2788606.html) makes a reference to audio recordings that were provided to the blogger by someone. The audio is an intercept of Zello App (wi-fi walki-talkie) conversations from the area of the incident. Of a particular interest is a statement made by a woman @ 2:25 -

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iqSZu-HYWOA#t=161

"... guys, I just listened to a story [not sure if she's referring to someone else or this overall conversation happening]... (sigh) ... I was in the vegetable garden, it's actually [located] in October [reference to Red October farm - хутор Красный Октябрь - Червоный Жовтень] ... heard a roaring sound, came from nowhere this roar. Literally it was all quiet, and right away this loud roar. I look up ... something was flying ... well, I can't say for [sure] but it was like flying from direction where Saurivka is... I thought it was a missile.. then I called my mom, we went down to the cellar, and afterwards heard some explosions. when it was flying it already had a white smoke and had a loud roaring sound and was flying over Red October farm towards the town, in that direction".

Once she's done talking, a second later, a male voice states "The mine #8 confirms".

Then another male voice: "I was also standing on my balcony [in some apartment building] and saw [can't make it what he says] go into the clouds and then I heard explosion"
LarryLat (https://www.metabunk.org/members/larrylat.5258/), Jul 23, 2014 (https://www.metabunk.org/threads/mh17-evidence-a-missile-was-used-shrapnel-etc.3997/page-3#post-117964) #83 (https://www.metabunk.org/threads/mh17-evidence-a-missile-was-used-shrapnel-etc.3997/page-3#post-117964)
What's for sure is that there was a flying piece of machinery that was leaving a trail and entered the clouds right before (an) explosion(s) took place in said clouds.

And that's about it!

[sigma6]

US war plan for Europe and Russia
http://www.presstv.com/detail/2014/03/30/356571/us-war-plan-for-europe-and-russia/


"In the early 1980s, a European top NATO admiral said that American colleagues at the Pentagon had told him, unequivocally, that the US and UK would not hesitate in creating a new European war if the situation ever arose that Europe and Russia, then the USSR, were to develop close relations."


The key issues are the prevention of Russia and Europe developing closer trade and political ties - stemming primarily from a vast trade in energy fuels; and, secondly, the survival of the American dollar as the world's reserve currency.

So vital are these issues for continued American hegemony that Washington is prepared to sacrifice millions of lives in a war between Russia and its so-called transatlantic European "ally".

This shocking revelation comes from a former European NATO commander. According to Christof Lehmann, editor of the news and analysis website nsnbc international, the European military officer was given the grim warning by American counterparts in an off-the-record briefing.

The European commander, now retired, subsequently confided the information with Lehmann, who says that the tensions over Ukraine between Russia and Western powers are consistent with this latent American threat.

The original threat was disclosed during the 1980s, but there is no reason to believe that the American policy of inciting a war in Europe has since changed. This is because the strategic rationale for the US bellicose logic remains the same. And recent events over Ukraine strongly suggest that Washington's destructive designs are still in place.

Says Lehmann: "In the early 1980s, a European top NATO admiral said that American colleagues at the Pentagon had told him, unequivocally, that the US and UK would not hesitate in creating a new European war if the situation ever arose that Europe and Russia, then the USSR, were to develop close relations."

Central to the American rationale was, and continues to be, the issue of energy fuel. Washington does not want to see European and Russian economies integrating on the vital issue of trade in oil and gas, the foundation for economic and social development.

Over the past two decades since the end of the Cold War between the US-led West and the former Soviet Union, Europe and Russia have seen substantial alignment of their economies, primarily due to the enormous oil and gas volumes supplied by Moscow. European-Russian bilateral trade is well over $1 trillion annually, and is some tenfold that of US-Russian trade.

Russia accounts for nearly one-third of Europe's total hydrocarbon fuel consumption. In Germany, the largest European economy, that figure rises to 40 per cent. With the new pipelines of the North Stream and the currently constructed South Stream, the role of Russia as the main energy supplier to Europe is set to grow even more over the coming decades.

[sigma6]

I earlier mentioned one of the most tell tales signs was a Youtube video showing the fake passports, and the constantly flashing double headed eagle was just too obvious... Personally I don't think either planes have been blown up, they are too valuable they will probably be reconditioned and pimped out to Elites for private use.

A trophy, for money well invested in military technology.


Malaysian Air Probes Are Led By Perpetrators Of The Lockerbie Cover-up
http://rense.com/general96/malayperp.html


Adding scandal to a double tragedy, the official investigations into both the midair destruction of MH17 and the MH-370 disappearance are being led by the same team that perpetrated the cover-up of the PanAm 103 bombing over Lockerbie, Scotland. Cloaked in secrecy, the Air Accident Investigation Branch (AAIB) is an agency of the UK Transport Ministry, which was created by Royal Army and reputedly connected with the MI-6 spy service, the Crown and the House of Rothschild.


The Rothschilds have a financial relationship with the KLM group, the dominant carrier at Amsterdam-Schiphol Airportl. Schiphol was the point of departure for MH17 on the fateful day of July 17. Whatever blew apart that Boeing-777, causing a “explosive” decompression massive enough to split the plane into three sections, had passed through or around bomb detectors and loaded into the cargo hold on that morning. Security at Schiphol is run by ICTS, an Israeli-owned company founded by members of the Shin Beit spy agency.

[Cidersomerset]

Even More Certain Now: Obama’s Ukrainian Stooges Did Intentionally Down that Malaysian Airliner

new Wednesday 6th August 2014 at 06:39 By david-icke


http://rinf.com/alt-news/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/malaysia-airlines-mh17-ukraine-620x330.jpg


‘Information continues to pour in confirming the retired Lufthansa pilot Peter Haisenko’s reconstruction of how that Malaysian airliner (MH-17) came to be downed over the war-zone in Ukraine, the place to which Obama’s Ukrainian stooges had guided it and then shot it down in order to blame Russia for the tragedy so that Obama’s international sanctions against Russia could be increased.’
The present article is an updated version of the prior ones I’ve done attempting to present this case as clearly and as fully and honestly as I can. The “PS: at the end here is the main addition to the version I posted yesterday



We’ll go considerably farther than has yet been revealed by the professional intelligence community, to provide the actual evidence that conclusively shows that (and how) the Ukrainian Government shot down the Malaysian airliner, MH-17, on July 17th.

The latest report from the intelligence community was headlined on August 3rd by Robert Parry, “Flight 17 Shoot-Down Scenario Shifts,” and he revealed there that, “Contrary to the Obama administration’s public claims blaming eastern Ukrainian rebels and Russia for the shoot-down of Malaysia Airlines Flight 17, some U.S. intelligence analysts have concluded that the rebels and Russia were likely not at fault and that it appears Ukrainian government forces were to blame, according to a source briefed on these findings. This judgment — at odds with what President Barack Obama and Secretary of State John Kerry have expressed publicly — is based largely on the absence of U.S. government evidence that Russia supplied the rebels with a Buk anti-aircraft missile system that would be needed to hit a civilian jetliner flying at 33,000 feet, said the source, who spoke on condition of anonymity.”

It’s actually based on lots more than that; it’s based not on an absence of evidence, but on positive proof that the Ukrainian Government shot the plane down, and even proving how it was done. You will see this proof, right here, laid out in detail, for the first time anywhere, as of the present date.

The reader-comments to my July 31st article, “First Examination of Malaysian MH-17 Cockpit Photo Shows Ukraine Government Shot that Plane Down,” provided links and leads to independent additional confirmatory evidence backing up that account, of retired Lufthansa pilot Peter Haisenko’s reconstruction of this event, to such an extent that, after exploring the matter further, I now feel confident enough to say that the evidence on this matter is, indeed, “conclusive,” that Haisenko is right. Here is all of that evidence, which collectively convinces me that Haisenko’s conclusion there, is, indeed, the only one that can even possibly explain this wreckage:

“There have been two or three pieces of fuselage that have been really pockmarked with what almost looks like machine-gun fire, very very strong machine-gun fire.” This remarkable statement comes not from Haisenko, but from one of the first OSCE investigators who arrived at the scene of the disaster. Go to https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ze9BNGDyk4 and you will see it.

That youtube snippet in an interview with Michael Bociurkiw, comes from a man who is “a Ukrainian-Canadian monitor with the Organization for Security and Cooperation in Europe (OSCE), [who] has seen up close … the crash site of Malaysia Airlines Flight MH17. Bociurkiw and one other colleague were the first international monitors to reach the wreckage after the jet was shot down over a rebel-held region of eastern Ukraine July 17.” That description of him is from the lead-in to the full interview with him, at the 29 July 2014 CBC news article, “Malaysia Airlines MH17: Michael Bociurkiw talks about being first at the crash site.” The far briefer youtube clip shows only what’s presented on 6:10-6:24 of this CBC interview with Bociurkiw. The CBC reporter in the video precedes the interview by announcing, “The wreckage was still smoldering when a small team from the OSCE got there.” So: he had to have been there really fast. “No other officials arrived for days,” she said.

So: one of the two first international monitors on-site saw conclusive evidence that the Malaysian plane had been hit by “very very strong machine-gun fire,” not by ground-based missile-fire. Peter Haisenko’s reconstruction of the downing of that airliner, was here being essentially confirmed on-site by one of the two first OSCE international monitors to arrive on-site, while the wreckage was still smoldering. That’s as close to virgin, untouched evidence and testimony as we’ll ever get. Unlike a black-box interpretation-analysis long afterward by the Russian Government, or by the British Government, or by the Ukrainian Government, each of which governments has a horse in this race, this testimony from Bociurkiw is raw, independent, and comes from one of the two earliest witnesses to the physical evidence. That’s powerfully authoritative testimony, and it happens to confirm pilot Peter Haisenko’s theory of what happened. Bociurkiw arrived there fast because he negotiated with the locals for the rest of the OSCE team, who were organizing to come later: Bociurkiw speaks the local languages there — Ukrainian and Russian.

Furthermore, this is hardly testimony from someone who is supportive of the anti-Government rebels. Earlier, there had been this, http://pressimus.com/Interpreter_Mag/press/3492, which transcribes the BBC’s interview with Bociurkiw on July 22nd. He said then: “We’re observing that major pieces, and I’m looking at the tail fin as I said, and then there’s also the rear cone section of the aircraft, they do look different than when we first saw them, … two days ago.” So, he had arrived on-scene July 20th at the latest. (Neither the BBC nor the CBC, both of which interviewed him, were sufficiently professional to have reported the specific date at which Bociurkiw had actually arrived on-scene, but, from this, it couldn’t have been after July 20th. The downing had occurred July 17th. If some of the debris was still “smoldering” as the CBC journalist said, then maybe he had arrived there even earlier.)

The youtube snippet of Bociurkiw came to me via a reader-comment to my article, from Bill Johnson, after which I web-searched the youtube clip for its source and arrived then at the 29 July 2014 CBC news article and its accompanying video.

Further, there’s this crucial 21 July photo-reconstruction of that cockpit-fragment positioned into place on the aircraft as it had originally been in that intact-airliner: https://twitter.com/EzraBraam. (Sometimes that doesn’t work, so here’s another screen of it from someone who copied it.) Looking at that photo-reconstruction, one can easily tell that the SU-25 or other fighter-jet that was firing into the cockpit from the pilot’s left side didn’t just riddle the area surrounding the pilot with bullets, but that it then targeted-in specifically onto the pilot himself, producing at his location a huge gaping hole in the side of the plane precisely at the place where the pilot was seated. Furthermore, this gaping hole was produced by shooting into the plane, precisely at the pilot, from below and to the pilot’s left, which is where that fighter-jet was located — not from above the airliner, and not from beside it, and also not from below it.

In other words: this was precise and closely-targeted firing against the pilot himself, not a blast directed broadly against, and aiming to hit, the plane anywhere, to bring it down.

Haisenko explained how this penetration of the plane, though it was targeted specifically at the pilot, caused immediately a breaking-apart of the entire aircraft.

Other readers have responded to my news-report about Haisenko’s article, by saying that shrapnel from a Buk missile could similarly have caused those holes into the side of the cockpit. However, that objection ignores another key feature of Haisenko’s analysis. Haisenko said there: “You can see the entry and exit holes. The edge of a portion of the holes is bent inwards. These are the smaller holes, round and clean, showing the entry points most likeley that of a 30 millimeter caliber projectile. The edge of the other, the larger and slightly frayed exit holes showing shreds of metal pointing produced by the same caliber projectiles. Moreover, it is evident that … these exit holes of the outer layer of the double aluminum reinforced structure are shredded or bent — outwardly!”

What this means is that in order to have some of those holes frayed inwardly and the other holes frayed outwardly, there had to have been a second fighter-jet firing into the cockpit from the airliner’s right-hand side. That’s critically important, because no ground-based missile (or shrapnel therefrom) hitting the airliner could possibly have produced firing into the cockpit from both sides of the plane. It had to have been a hail of bullets from both sides, that brought the plane down, in that circumstance. This is Haisenko’s main discovery, by his pointing that out. You can’t have projectiles going in both directions — into the left-hand-side fuselage panel from both its left and right sides — unless they are coming at the panel from different directions. Nobody before Haisenko had noticed that the projectiles had ripped through that panel from both its left side and its right side. This is what rules out any ground-fired missile.

Peter Haisenko posted an extremely high-resolution image from that photo which he used, and it shows unequivocally that some of the bullet-holes were inbound while others of them were outbound: Here it is, viewed very close-up.

Although the fighter jets that were said to have been escorting the Malaysian plane into the war-zone were alleged to be SU-25 planes, a different type might have been used. SU-25s are designed to be flown up to 23,000 feet without an oxygen-mask, but can go much higher if the pilot does wear that mask, which was probably the case here. Of course, an airliner itself is fully pressurized. That pressurization inside the airliner is, moreover, a key part of Haisenko’s reconstruction of this airliner’s downing. Basically, Haisenko reconstructs the airliner’s breaking apart as soon as that hail of bullets opened and released the plane’s pressurization.

The specific photo of that cockpit-fragment, which Haisenko had downloaded immediately after the disaster, was removed from the Internet, but other photos of this fragment were posted elsewhere, such as at the British publication (which, like the rest of the Western “news” media is slanted pro-Obama, anti-Putin), on July 21st, headlining their anti-Putin missile-theory bias, “MH17 crash: FT photo shows signs of damage from missile strike.” Their “reporters” opened with their blatant anti-Russian prejudice: “The first apparent hard evidence that Malaysia Airlines Flight MH17 was brought down by a surface-to-air missile is emerging from the crash site in eastern Ukraine, after experts confirmed on Monday there were signs of shrapnel damage to the aircraft.” Although they didn’t say in their opener that the “surface-to-air missile” was from the rebels, they made clear their pro-Ukrainian-Government anti-Russian bias by saying, “Over the weekend, western intelligence agencies pointed to mounting evidence that backs Ukraine’s claim that the aircraft with 298 people on board was shot down by mistake by pro-Russian separatists and Russian military personnel with an SA-11 missile launched from a Buk-M1 SAM battery.” Their stenographers (or as they would say “reporters”) stenographed (“reported”) that, “Douglas Barrie of the International Institute for Strategic Studies, said the photographic evidence ‘was consistent with the kind of damage you would expect to see from the detonation of a high explosive fragmentation warhead of the type commonly used in a SAM system’.” No analyst from the pro-Putin camp was interviewed by their “reporters.” For example, Russia’s Interfax News Service headlined on July 29th, the same day as the FT’s article, “Boeing’s downing by Buk missile system unlikely — military expert,” and they stenographed their “expert,” as follows:

Chief of the Russian Land Forces’ tactical air defense troops Maj. Gen. Mikhail Krush said he doubts that the Malaysian passenger liner was brought down by a Buk surface-to-air missile system. “No one observed a Buk engaging targets in that region on that day, which provides 95 percent proof that Buk systems were not used in this concrete case,” the general said in an interview with the Voyenno-Promyshlenny Kuryer military weekly to be published on Wednesday [July 30th]. “This is no more than a theory for now. However, a guided missile launched by a Buk missile system leaves behind a specific smoke trail as it flies, like a comet. In daylight this trail can be clearly seen within a radius of 20-25 kilometers from the missile system. It cannot remain unnoticed. There are no eyewitnesses to confirm there was any. No one reported a launch. This is one thing,” he said. “Second. The holes left by the strike elements on the Boeing’s outer skin indicate that the warhead blew up from below and sideways. A Buk missile strikes the target from above,” he said. “The damage done to the plane suggests that a different missile was used. Our guidance method is a zoom, when the missile strikes the target from above covering it with a thick cloud of fragments” the general said. “I cannot state categorically, guided by this data, but I can suggest, using my experience, that it was not a Buk missile that hit the Boeing,” the expert said.

General Krush’s statement can fit with Haisenko’s and with Bociurkiw’s, but not with FT’s or the rest of the “reporters” (just consider them as rank propagandists) in the West.

U.S. President Barack Obama has been saying all along that Russia – against which he is actually systematically building toward war – and not Ukraine (which he’s using as his chief vehicle to do that), is to blame for this airliner-downing. Previously, he had said that the snipers who in February had killed many people at the Maidan demonstrations against the pro-Russian Ukrainian President Viktor Yanukovych came from Yanukovych’s State Security Service and not from the far-right political parties that were trying to bring Yanukovych down and that Obama’s agent Victoria Nuland selected to run the new Ukrainian government. But that too was an Obama lie. He lies a lot, and it’s just about the only type of statement he ever makes about Russia, and about Ukraine: lies.

If someone wants to verify how rabidly the U.S. Government lies, and has lied since at least the time of George W. Bush’s Presidency, just look at this video, by starting at 16:00 on it and going to 42:00 on it, and you will be shocked. (It pertains to lies by Bush that are still being covered up by Obama.) And when you further consider the many obvious questions it points out, which U.S. “news” media refused to ask and still refuse to ask about the matter, you’ll recognize that we are being lied to systematically and with utter contempt of the public, and with no respect for the public’s right to know the truth, even regarding massive history like that. It’s really brutal.

Ignorant “reporters” sometimes slip-up and include, in their stenography, facts that actually support the opposite side’s narrative of events and that discredit their own story-line. Such has been the case, for example, in the Financial Times piece, which included the statement that, “Anti-aircraft missiles are not designed to score a direct hit as they are targeted to destroy fast, agile fighter jets. Instead, they are designed to explode within about 20m of their target, sending out a cloud of red hot metal to increase the chances of inflicting as much damage as possible.”

But rather than merely “a cloud of red hot metal,” what actually brought down this plane was what Haisenko has said brought it down: magazines-full of carefully targeted rapid-fire machine-gun bullets pouring forth from below the plane, at both its left and right.

This was a Ukrainian Government job. It was close-in. (No missile fired from the distance more than 30,000 feet down to the ground could have been that precise to target the pilot rather than the far larger target of the plane’s entire body.) It came from the Government that Obama installed there in February and that’s now carrying out an ethnic-cleansing campaign against the residents in Ukraine’s southeast, the places where Yanukovych’s voters live (to the extent that they still can and do live).

Compare that picture with the following one, which I take from a propaganda-site for the U.S. regime, and so which is intended instead to support the Administration’s line on this, certainly not Haisenko’s explanation of how the airliner was downed, though it actually supports Haisenko’s case:

3.August.2014.Screen shot 2014-08-03 at 3.25.30 PM

http://rinf.com/alt-news/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/3.August.2014.Screen-shot-2014-08-03-at-3.25.30-PM.jpg



As you can see there, a plane that’s hit by a ground-fired missile, instead of by bullets fired from an attack-plane only a few yards away, has the damage spread rather widely over its body, not concentrated into a tiny area, such as to where the plane’s pilot is seated. Certainly, the contrast between that photo and this one is enormous.

Furthermore, note also that the shrapnel damage to that plane comes from above it, which is where missiles usually hit a plane from, releasing their shrapnel from above, down onto the plane. By contrast, the hail of bullets to the Malaysian plane’s pilot came from below the plane, aiming upward at the cockpit, from both sides of the cockpit.

Furthermore, note also that all of the holes appear to be inbound into the plane, none outbound.

As regards whether there were actually two fighter jets firing into the Malaysian airliner or only one, a proponent of the single-jet hypothesis, Bill Johnson, posted as a reader-comment to my article on August 4th, a series of extreme close-ups of the side-panel, in which he inferred that the explanation of the apparent left-side (pilot-side) bullets was probably the shape of the bullets. I then asked him why he declined to accept the possible existence of two jets. He said, “from what I could find Russian military radar detected only one Ukrainian fighter jet, not two. I have looked and looked for any type of radar confirmation of a second fighter jet and can not find it.” However, the most virginal, very earliest, online evidence concerning the matter was on July 17th, within moments of the downing, headlining in the subsequent English translation, “Spanish Air Controller @ Kiev Borispol Airport: Ukraine Military Shot Down Boeing #MH17,” and it included, “@spainbuca’s TWITTER FEED,” which included his observation, only minutes after the downing, “2 jet fighters flew very close” to the plane. Furthermore, immediately before that, he had tweeted, “The B777 plane flew escorted by Ukraine jet fighter until 2 minutes before disappearing from the radar.” So, perhaps the second jet appeared distinct to him only immediately prior to the downing. An extensive file of tweets from @spainbuca was posted below the headline story and it included also the note: “LAST MINUTE Air Traffic Controller: The Boeing 777 ‘flew fighters escorted by two Ukrainians’ before disappearing.” (The original Spanish there was: “‘voló escoltado por 2 cazas ucranianos’ antes de desaparecer.”)

Additionally, a news story from the Spanish language edition of Russian Television on 8 May 2014, soon after the Odessa massacre, had been headlined in google trans English as “Death threats to a Spanish review in Ukraine crisis” and it said: “Spanish air traffic controller who was threatened by supporters of the Maidan, Carlos, who spoke with RT on the condition of anonymity, has received threats despite not defending any interest. ‘I have my opinion and my view of a normal person, with a separate work [unrelated] or media, or any political party, nor to any association.’” These “supporters of Maidan … threatened to kill him, to send him to ‘do not know what battalion’ and out of the country.” Then on July 17th there was, yet again in google trans from Spanish, “Block a Twitter account accusing Kiev of the demolition of the MH17,” which reported that a controller at “Ukraine’s largest airport said the plane from Malaysia, which crashed in the east with 298 people on board, was escorted by two Ukrainian fighters until minutes before disappearing from radar.”

Another news-report, also on July 17th, came from Global Travel Industry News datelined 17 July and it headlined “Ukraine air traffic controller suggests Kiev military shot down passenger plane.” It said: “This Kiev air traffic controller is a citizen of Spain and was working in the Ukraine. He was taken off duty as a civil air-traffic controller along with other foreigners immediately after a Malaysia Airlines passenger aircraft was shot down over the Eastern Ukraine killing 295 passengers and crew on board. The air traffic controller suggested in a private evaluation and basing it on military sources in Kiev, that the Ukrainian military was behind this shoot down. Radar records were immediately confiscated after it became clear a passenger jet was shot down.” If this is true, then the radar-records upon the basis of which those tweets had been sent out were “confiscated.” That news-story from Global Travel Industry News closed by saying that the report was “based on” “tweets received” and “the statements of one airline controller.”

That person, who called himself anonymously by the name “Carlos,” had produced a file characteristic of someone hostile toward, and personally afraid of, the new Kiev government, and nothing further was heard from him, if he even survived. The Ukrainian Government said that he never existed, though the 8 May 2014 news report of his frictions with the Kiev authorities could hardly have been concocted after July 17th simply out of nowhere; it had pre-existed the airliner-downing, and it fit with his tweets on July 17th.

The best evidence is consistent with the view that those bullet-holes came from two directions not from one. What is virtually certain, however, is that at least one jet fighter was close up and shot down the Malaysian plane targeting the pilot at close range. There is no way that a 33,000-foot-away ground-fired missile could have produced that cockpit side-panel.

And the European Union has been playing along with this hoax. (If you still have any further doubts that it’s a hoax, just click onto that link and look.) And the mass of suckers in the West believe that hoax: it’s succeeding to stir a fever for war, instead of a fever to get rid of our own leaders who are lying us into a war that will benefit only the West’s aristocrats, while it inflicts massive physical and economic harms against everyone else – as if it were the invasion of Iraq except multiplied in this case a thousand-fold, especially with nuclear weapons possibly at the end of it.

If we had a free press, the news media would be ceaselessly asking President Obama why he doesn’t demand accountability against the Ukrainian Government for their massacre perpetrated on May 2nd inside the Trade Unions Building in Odessa, where that newly Obama-installed regime’s peaceful opponents were systematically trapped and then burned alive, which the Obama-installed Ukrainian Government has refused to investigate (much less to prosecute). Basically: Obama had sponsored the massacre. So, our “news” media ignore it, even though it started this civil war on Russia’s doorstep, and thereby re-started the Cold War, as Obama had intended that massacre (his massacre, and his subsequent ethnic cleansing) to do. (Similarly, the “news” media, though all of them receive my articles by email, virtually all refuse to publish them, because I won’t let them control what I find and report.)

And while Obama leads this Republican policy, and Vice President Dick Cheney’s top foreign-policy advisor Victoria Nuland actually runs it for Obama, congressional Democrats are just silent about it, and do not introduce impeachment of this fake “Democratic” hyper-George W. Bush neo-conservative President, who’s a “Democrat” in rhetoric only – and though Obama’s policy in this key matter threatens the entire world.

A reader-comment to an earlier version of this news report and analysis objected to my identifying Obama as a Republican-in-”Democratic”-sheep’s clothing, and said: “They may be rethug policies in origin but they are decidedly BI-PARTISAN to anyone who wants to admit FACTS. The democratic party you all think still exists is DEAD and only exists in your brain (the part that doesn’t accept reality).” However, U.S. Senate bill 2277, which invites Obama to provide direct U.S. military support to the Obama-installed Ukrainian regime, has 26 sponsors, and all of them are Republican U.S. Senators. Democratic Senators, by contrast, are just silent on Obama’s turn toward nazism (or racist — in this case anti-ethnic-Russian racist — fascism); the Senate’s Democrats aren’t seeking for it to be stepped up. This is a Republican policy, which congressional Democrats are simply afraid to oppose. Any realistic person knows that however far right Obama turns, the overt Republican Party will turn even farther to the right, because they have to be to his right in order for them to be able to win Republican primaries and retain their own Party’s nomination. Just because Obama’s game of moving the American political center as far to the right as he can move it is succeeding, doesn’t mean that the Democratic Party itself should end. It instead means that progressives need to take the Democratic Party over, just like conservatives took the Republican Party over with Reagan. There is no other hope. If a Democrat in the U.S. House will simply introduce an impeachment resolution against Barack Obama, then the right-wing takeover of the Democratic Party might finally end, and the world might yet be saved, because the Democratic Party itself could then reject Obama as being a fake “Democrat,” a Democrat-in-rhetoric-only. It could transform American politics — and American politics needs such a transformation, which would move the Democratic Party back to progressivism, more like the FDR Democratic Party was, so that Republican politicians would no longer need to be so fascist as they now have become (and as they now need to be in order to be able to win their own Party’s nomination). If Democrats fail to renounce the conservatism of Obama and of the Clintons, then the Party will end, and needs to be replaced, just like the Republican Party replaced the Whig Party immediately before the Civil War. Nazism has become today’s slavery-type issue – it’s beyond the pale, and Obama’s installation and endorsement of it in Ukraine is like James Buchanan’s endorsement of slavery was during the 1850s: either the Democratic Party will become the progressive party, or else the Democratic Party is over.

But that’s just my own theory of how Obama’s frauds might yet be able to be overcome and defeated, if they still can be; it’s not part of my presentation of the explanation of what brought down the Malaysian airliner, which has been an open case since July 17th, and which is now a closed case. This is past history, not future.

The present news story is being circulated free of charge or copyright to all “news” media in the English-speaking world, in the perhaps vain hope that the cover-ups of our leaders’ constant lies will cease soon enough to avoid a World War III, even though communism is long since gone from Russia and so the ideological excuse wouldn’t make any sense here. This insanity is actually all about aristocratic conquest, like World War I was. It’s not for the benefit of the public anywhere. Silence about it (by “Democrats,” and the “news” media) is a scandal, which needs to stop. The real Democratic Party (the Party of FDR, who loathed and despised nazis — and even mere fascists — yet today Obama installs nazis into power in Ukraine) must be restored, and a real news media needs to become established in America. Even Republicans need it, because the very idea of “victory” in a nuclear war is a vicious fantasy. It is a dangerous lie, though there are some people who find it a very profitable one. And time might be short — let’s hope not already too short.

After all, Obama’s hoax of having won from Europe the stepped-up economic sanctions against Russia after the government that Obama had installed in Ukraine downed the Malaysian plane and successfully blamed it on “Russian aggression,” is very encouraging to him. And European leaders know that Obama’s entire operation is a very bloody fraud (read the phone-transcript there — it’s a stunner). So, they certainly won’t save the world from it. It’s up to us.

—

PS (dated August 5th):

Some readers disagree with Peter Haisenko’s reconstruction of the event on account of their not understanding his reconstruction of it (not understanding what I have been trying here to state as clearly as I can, bringing in other evidence). For example, see:

http://rinf.com/alt-news/editorials/evidence-now-conclusive-2-ukrainian-government-su-25-fighter-jets-shoot-malaysian-airliner-buk-missile-ground-shot-involved/

reader-comment:

“Benoit • [c. 8AM on 5 August 2014]

“I do not agree with Peter Haisenko’s conclusions : if external hull of the cockpit is bent outwards, it is not necessarily because some of the bullets came outwards. It may also be because it’s a double hull, and explosive bullet coming inwards may, when exploding, have torn outer aluminium hull outwards. A very careful analysis shows tha the inner hull (the green one) is bent inwards, and that may well in fact confirm the present analysis. Here’s this careful analysis (in french, use Goolgle translate):

—

“Benoit” links there to:

http://www.agoravox.fr/actualites/international/article/mh17-preuve-de-canonnage-et-155019

“MH17: evidence gunnery and Western Bankruptcy”

by joelim , Wednesday, July 30, 2014, in which is buried its conclusion:

“Anyway, these five aligned and clearly visible impacts directly lead to the conclusion that fire gunnery (not gun, which stops 20 mm) was made precisely to where stood the driver (see here and here ). The damage (physical, human, decompression) left them no chance. This is the cause of the crash. The plane did not explode which also explains the appearance of debris found.”

—

Here is the French original on that:

“MH17 : preuve de canonnage et faillite occidentale”

“Quoiqu’il en soit, ces 5 impacts alignés et parfaitement visibles mènent directement à la conclusion qu’un tir de canonnage (et non de mitrailleuse, qui s’arrête à 20 mm) a été effectué précisément à l’endroit où se tenait le pilote (voir ici et ici). Les dégâts occasionnés (matériel, humain, décompression) ne leur laissaient aucune chance. C’est donc la cause du crash. L’avion n’a pas explosé ce qui explique aussi l’aspect des débris retrouvés.”

—

In other words: “Benoit” couldn’t understand what he was reading, and so he said “I do not agree with Peter Haisenko’s conclusions.” He cited against Haisenko’s theory of the case, an analysis that was published a day after Haisenko’s, which concluded the same as Haisenko did.

The author of that French article refused to even use the word “Haisenko” in his article, much less to credit Haisenko’s article in any way, but the source-photo that he linked to came from Haisenko’s high-definition pdf of the photo that Haisenko was using. He was trying to get credit for Haisenko’s theory of the case.

—

There is a lot of lying going on, a lot of misrepresentation. The only way to get to the truth is to base it on the best available evidence, which is what Haisenko did. He found it; he analyzed it; he solved the mystery (though he could have explained it better). To the extent that other “evidence” is reliable, it fits his explanation — an explanation that I shall keep expanding on to the extent that new relevant evidence comes forth, pro and/or con, on it. The important thing to keep in mind, however, is this. It’s even more important than how that plane was brought down.

Barack Obama lies to us. All Republican (or conservative) politicians do. The Democratic Party will die if it fails to state that this is so and to make the case for the charge so that they separate themselves from the Republican Party and be clearly the progressive alternative to conservatism in America. A Democratic impeachment against this Republican President is essential in order to salvage the Democratic Party, and even in order to salvage democracy in America, because no country can be an authentic democracy if the country’s main political parties are all conservative, if none of the main parties is progressive. That’s not a democracy: it is a dictatorship. That’s what we’ve got.

———-



Read more: Even More Certain Now: Obama’s Ukrainian Stooges Did Intentionally Down that Malaysian Airliner

http://rinf.com/alt-news/featured/5-august-even-certain-now-obamas-ukrainian-stooges-intentionally-malaysian-airliner/

http://www.davidicke.com/headlines/

[Cidersomerset]

Humanitarian Crisis: No water, power or communications in Lugansk, E. Ukraine

new Wednesday 6th August 2014 at 06:31 By david-icke



‘The eastern Ukrainian city of Lugansk has declared a state of humanitarian
catastrophe over a lack of medical supplies, electricity, lighting, mobile and
internet communication. Some 250,000 civilians are unable to leave, the
statement also says. ‘


0P8exx-ekbw

===============================================


100,000 people internally displaced in Ukraine: UN

new Wednesday 6th August 2014 at 06:28 By david-icke


http://www.davidicke.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/374168_Ukraine-displaced-Russia.jpg


‘The United Nations’ refugee agency says over 100,000 people have
been internally displaced in Ukraine and another 170,000 people have
fled to Russia.

The Office of the United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees
(UNHCR) warned on Tuesday of a massive exodus over the crisis in
eastern Ukraine, saying the number of people internally displaced
has risen from 2,600 to about 103,000 over the past two months.

The international body added that about 1,200 people are fleeing
violence in the country every day.’

Read more: 100,000 people internally displaced in Ukraine: UN


http://www.presstv.ir/detail/2014/08/05/374168/100k-people-displaced-in-ukraine-un/

====================================================


Up in the Air: Russia mulls ban on EU Trans-Siberian flights after sanctions

K5jC8AOZTr8


Published on 5 Aug 2014


Russia is considering limiting or even completely blocking European flights to Asia
that cross Siberia in response to EU sanctions that caused Aeroflot subsidiary
Dobrolet to suspend flights on Monday. READ MORE http://on.rt.com/vc7fkh

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[sigma6]

More parties coming to the same conclusion... This must been a botched up job given the amount of media cover up...

CIS - The plane MH-17 was brought down by machine gun fire from the right and above.
http://ronaldwederfoort.blogspot.ca/2014/08/cis-plane-mh-17-was-brought-down-by.html

https://fbcdn-sphotos-c-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xap1/t1.0-9/10494554_326600437498683_851455193076852765_n.jpg

The plane was brought down by machine gun fire from the right and above. The armor piercing bullets entered the cockpit through the heavy titanium frame above the right side cockpit window and exited it below the left side window. The irregular shrapnel is likely the result of a 1/2 or 1/3 mixture of HE rounds in the ammo.

The screenshot shows the bullet holes in the upper frame of the right side cockpit windows.

[Sunny-side-up]

More parties coming to the same conclusion... This must been a botched up job given the amount of media cover up...

CIS - The plane MH-17 was brought down by machine gun fire from the right and above.
http://ronaldwederfoort.blogspot.ca/2014/08/cis-plane-mh-17-was-brought-down-by.html

https://fbcdn-sphotos-c-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xap1/t1.0-9/10494554_326600437498683_851455193076852765_n.jpg

The plane was brought down by machine gun fire from the right and above. The armor piercing bullets entered the cockpit through the heavy titanium frame above the right side cockpit window and exited it below the left side window. The irregular shrapnel is likely the result of a 1/2 or 1/3 mixture of HE rounds in the ammo.

The screenshot shows the bullet holes in the upper frame of the right side cockpit windows.

Is it just me or dose that metal look old, rusty and corroded?

[Hervé]

Short summary:


SAM (Surface-Air Missile) shrapnel, clustered and aligned:

http://www.chickenwingscomics.com/forum/index.php?PHPSESSID=2b970089e8c5972f1672b4c42f456599&action=dlattach;topic=110.0;attach=74;image


vs.

20mm holes training rounds (not even HE [high Explosive]):

http://www.f-16.net/forum/download/file.php?id=10212&sid=be17112d0e100fd0c0fafe95da15cb1b&mode=view


compared to:

9M-MRD's Cockpit port-side roof:

http://anemistiras.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/article-0-1FE1ADD400000578-906_634x475.jpg

https://speedingdragon.files.wordpress.com/2014/07/img_4698.jpg



Hence, it seems that some people have their gauges/calibers mixed up or else they ain't looking...


PS: @ Cidersomerset, it seems, IMO, that many of your posts would rather better fit in threads like this one: Ukraine, Crimea, Syria, Israel, Iran, Putin, and World War III (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?69621-Ukraine-Crimea-Syria-Israel-Iran-Putin-and-World-War-III)

[ExomatrixTV]

Game Changer! Let The Radar Truth About MH17 Not Be Suppressed!

WGrpMAm6I7k

[Hervé]

For further comparison, here is what a real Buk missile warhead looks like:


http://tuzic.users.photofile.ru/photo/tuzic/115226106/xlarge/121981737.jpg


... and the shrapnel layers of cubes, diabolos and rods:

http://tuzic.users.photofile.ru/photo/tuzic/115226106/xlarge/121981747.jpg


... which is one of those:

http://sf.uploads.ru/jvubK.png


... inside one of those:

http://www.ausairpower.net/PVO-SV/3M9ME-Gainful-3N12-Warhead-MiroslavGyurosi-1S.jpg

... so, my guess is that one of those would make for different hole sizes...

... and so, the damn Buk hasn't been quite stopped yet and is still in the run with an AAM and a bomb!

[ExomatrixTV]

macpduff quote:
(http://www.youtube.com/profile_redirector/102590956014599705758)
"The 2nd part of the video confuses me.
Partly because I don't know how to "read" the info on that radar screen.
partly because the numbers are different.
What is MAC17?
The flight that went down was MH17 - yes?
Also what's the new info of 'something coming in from the left, and then disappearing?
Where are the Ukrainian fighter jets that were accompanying flight 17 (and also suspected of shooting it's pilot cock[it full of machine gun fire?)"

[unquote]

~answer:

Malaysian Airlines: MAS17 - B772 - 9M-MRD - Amsterdam -> Kuala Lumpur
MH17 is MAS17. Also plane was shot down, there are multiple witnesses saying that they saw 2 planes, this civilian MH17 and some military jet. It is a false flag, I don't know why you think it exploded on ground.

Flight no: MH17 Callsign: MAS17 https://planefinder.net/data/flight/MH17

"C" Russian letter for S see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_alphabet you are looking at a Russian Radar using Russian Alphabet

[Hervé]

Hi there!

Check this "Paris Match" page (http://www.parismatch.com/Actu/International/Exclusif-Ukraine-Notre-enquete-sur-les-lieux-du-crash-comment-le-MH17-a-ete-abattu-576889) (<---) and scroll down to the GoogleEarth interactive map and you may find an explantion for that MAS/C17 -- transponder off -- flight path (the green dots)...

[cursichella1]

It's pretty clear that wherever and however it exploded, it's a false flag, and we know who's best at creating those towards manipulating and/or distracting the masses.

There will probably be more discoveries on this that'll further muddy the waters for those still undecided, a la 911.

[cursichella1]

Hi there!

Check this "Paris Match" page (http://www.parismatch.com/Actu/International/Exclusif-Ukraine-Notre-enquete-sur-les-lieux-du-crash-comment-le-MH17-a-ete-abattu-576889) (<---) and scroll down to the GoogleEarth interactive map and you may find an explantion for that MAS/C17 -- transponder off -- flight path (the green dots)...

For non-francophones, click below for a quasi-readable English translation (google) to Amzer Zo's Paris Match article:

English
(https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=fr&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.parismatch.com%2FActu%2FInternational%2FExclusif-Ukraine-Notre-enquete-sur-les-lieux-du-crash-comment-le-MH17-a-ete-abattu-576889&edit-text=)

You'll still need to follow the original link to be able to see the google earth interactive.

[Flash]

good question, are we flying around on a regular basis with planes that are THAT rusted?????

[Hervé]

[...]



So...

... was it a duck, was it a plane or was it a Buk?

Here are some account from eye witnesses:


I'd love to hear the entire interview with the local in the yellow shirt.@ 1:32 the audio cuts in with this guy speaking and it sounds like he is implying that he saw a second plane: "the plane, which was encroaching... it appears was going nearby it [MH17] then approached him around and from the front [shows a hook gesture with his right hand going in front and around his left hand @ 1:36]"

Russian language just like French or German has three genders for objects. The guy was definitely not talking about a missile because rocket in Russian is of a feminine gender. He was talking about another plane "him" - masculine gender. So this was likely one of the witnesses from whom the story about an attack plane started.

He goes on to mention that seconds after both MH17 and "second plane" entered significant clouds (that obscured all the view for the guy) there was an explosion and pieces started falling.

Once I reviewed the video again I noticed another fragment when it appears that he talks about this second plane.

0:28 - here he states that no one actually saw the big plane (MH17). Second voice behind the camera also states "the big one [MH17] was not visible"

0:38 - "it was very far. it was just a dot. he [it = second plane, not a missile, which is a "she"] dived into the clouds"

0:41 - repeats hand gesture, and restates "flew [he, not she] into the clouds"

1:07 they are not near the main crash site. I think they are near the business class section. they are talking about bodies that were falling out of the falling debris. 37 bodies in total just in that area surrounding where they stand.

In no part of the video it is absolutely perfectly clear that the guy in a yellow shirt and his friend talk about two distinct airplanes. This is because neither of them make comments such as "first plane", "second plane", "another plane", "interceptor", "attacker" or anything like that. Nonetheless, it does sound a lot like they are talking about two planes. If the full video was available then it would have been much clearer.

While I hear that the witness is stating that he saw what he believes was a second plane, I personally continue to support the theory that it was a missile from the BUK, and that at an altitude of almost 10KM a trail of a large missile did resemble a trail of an interceptor jet.
Last edited: Jul 23, 2014
LarryLat (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/members/larrylat.5258/),Jul 23, 2014 (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/threads/mh17-evidence-a-missile-was-used-shrapnel-etc.3997/page-2#post-117927)
#73 (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/threads/mh17-evidence-a-missile-was-used-shrapnel-etc.3997/page-2#post-117927)
[...]

What's for sure is that there was a flying piece of machinery that was leaving a trail and entered the clouds right before (an) explosion(s) took place in said clouds.

And that's about it!




Found the video which goes with the above text (sorry, French captions):


-ZABCY8IMRA


And here is my version from the caption and the guy's accompanying gestures:

Yellow T-shirt guy = Alexander --> Alex

Grey T-shirt guy = Vassilly --> Vas

On the spot of the Rapsinoye/Rozsypne crash site where the flight deck, front landing gear and forward bottom fuselage crashed.


Alex: We've seen commercial airliners flying at high altitude all the time, 10-15 per day.

Alex: But the big Malaysian Boeing we didn't see because it was in the cloud.

Alex: Then, I saw like a dot in the sky [points in that direction], very far away [i.e. below cloud cover] [what attracted his attention to it?]

Alex: I saw it climb up towards the cloud and "BOOM!"

Vas: It went into the cloud and we heard an explosion.

Alex: Then there were more explosions and debris started falling around.

Alex: When that piece [flight deck forward fuselage, Rapsinoye/Rozsypne crash-site] people were thrown out and falling off the sky like rain.

Alex: The plane came from this side and was going that way to Malaysia. It was flying toward Rostov [pointing in that direction].

Alex: The other one, it was catching up to it from behind, climbing up behind it and went like this [gesture of catching up with MH17 from right side then turning left to face it]

Alex: Remember, it was a cloudy day. I only saw that thing climbing up towards the cloud ... and saw it turn like that [gesture of left turn], right into the cloud.

Alex: A few seconds later, the explosion happened... that's all.

Vas: Then, from Grabovo/Hrabove, we saw a large smoke column rising, really huge.This is a key early interview... because about every one missed the key element in it!

Whatever shot down 9M-MRD on its MH17 flight, whether fighter jet or Buk-31...

... that thing was in PURSUIT mode!

It was following the flight path of MH17!

That means it came from the opposite direction all mass media are preaching it was coming from (Snizhne or other anti-fascists held grounds).

[avid]

Yet another 'take'.....
http://www.veteranstoday.com/2014/08/06/315291/
MH17: Another Israeli Cover Up?

By Gordon Duff and New Eastern Outlook, Moscow

The latest disaster, one that has scrubbed Israel’s bizarre onslaught into Gaza off newspaper front pages, 298 dead, can be nothing but more than yet another cover up operation. Every news asset, every politico known to be a creature of the Israeli/organized crime nexus, has weighed in. Their every lie tells one story; “Israel did it.”
The facts tell another story, one of false flag terrorism. If only McCain and Tony Abbot, if only Fox and CNN, the Huffington Post and, worst of all, accused Israeli spy, Jane Harmon’s Daily Beast:
“Why would Putin want to shoot down a commercial airliner? And if it was an accident, why would Putin allow the separatists to have a weapon this powerful without having full control over how it was used?”
You couldn’t scream “Israel did it” any louder. It is almost embarrassing. There is nothing innocent about these utterly fabricated stories, particularly when the truth, a very different truth, is out there as well, substantiated, validated and verified.
QUE BONO?
Who would murder 298 people? Who benefits? Why would someone do this unless they had a plan, a plan and control of the media? This leaves one possibility, one name only behind the “shoot down” of MH 17.
Two stories are emerging, one where the Ukraine, aided by Israeli teams and a US/Israeli F 15 flying out of Azerbaijan, where Kiev air traffic control turned MH17 into banned air space, while this cabal of terrorists murdered 298 people. The BUK missile systems were caught by Russian satellites, the planes assisting were observed and the evidence in the massive wreckage is overwhelming.
There is a second story. This one involves the attempt, let by Assistant Undersecretary of State Victoria Nuland and her husband, neocon political extremist John Kagan, both Israeli citizens, coordinating with the junta in Kiev, the cabal in Tel Aviv, armies of assets in Washington and New York, and pulling every trigger, Australia’s puppet Tony Abbott, the always mentally defective Senator John McCain along with the scum of world’s owned and blackmailed political world.
Both stories are much the same, false flag terror and the belief, perhaps correct in its underestimation of the moral courage of world leaders, that if the controlled press tells a lie enough, no politician will stand against the onslaught.
After all, hadn’t Israel just murdered three of their own, blamed Hamas without a shred of evidence, and begun massive collective punishment and now a full scale invasion and not one word is said about it?
Then again, with the exposure of Israel’s ties to ISIS, the “traveling circus” of media darlings, Rolex watches, carefully staged mosque demolitions and mass executions, fighting Israel’s wars, eradicating Israel’s enemies, on and on.
Who would allow this and stay silent? This is the price of a world led by cowards, all but one, Vladimir Putin and the besieged “few” of the honest media.
THE MEDIA “SNOW JOB”
Every controlled news media is touting the same story, one pulled out of nowhere, a total fabrication, that intercepted phone calls prove the Russian backed rebels shot down MH17 though they have no weapons capable of such a task and everyone knows it.
Using terms like “purported” and “alleged,” every news agency in the US and most in Britain have accepted the same story with many of them carrying a YouTube video now believed to have been begun days in advance.
MH370
If there was any question about the fate of MH370, it is now safe to assume that Israel may have taken that down as well. Author and investigative journalist Christopher Bollyn had located an “analog” of the Boeing 777ER in a hangar inside Israel, painted with Malaysian Airlines colors.
Unless Bollyn imagined this, and he furnished photographs, who could hide a massive aircraft like this? Why would it be done? However, Bollyn tells us where it is, where it was and there have been no questions answered but many asked.
The same Israeli teams responsible for faking Syrian Army communications in order to blame the government of President Assad for use of chemical weapons by Al Nusra, weapons traced to a US run chemical warfare facility in Tbilisi, Republic of Georgia. These WMDs were transported to Syria by Ukrainian nationalists under Israeli direction in an almost identical act of false flag terrorism.
Why let facts interfere when you have wars to start, genocide in Gaza to push off the front page and a puppet regime in Kiev to bolster, one that just suffered a massive military defeat.
WHAT WE KNOW
No commercial aircraft have flown over this region since April. This is closed air space. From Global Travel News, hardly a conspiracy site, we learn some startling facts:
“ETN received information from an air traffic controller in Kiev on Malaysia Airlines flight MH17.
This Kiev air traffic controller is a citizen of Spain and was working in the Ukraine. He was taken off duty as a civil air-traffic controller along with other foreigners immediately after a Malaysia Airlines passenger aircraft was shot down over the Eastern Ukraine killing 295 passengers and crew on board.
The air traffic controller suggested in a private evaluation and basing it on military sources in Kiev, that the Ukrainian military was behind this shoot down. Radar records were immediately confiscated after it became clear a passenger jet was shot down.
Military air traffic controllers in internal communication acknowledged the military was involved, and some military chatter said they did not know where the order to shoot down the plane originated from.
Obviously it happened after a series of errors, since the very same plane was escorted by two Ukrainian fighter jets until 3 minutes before it disappeared from radar.
Radar screen shots also show an unexplained change of course of the Malaysian Boeing. The change of course took the aircraft directly over the Eastern Ukraine conflict region.”
We know the plane was redirected over a conflict area by air traffic controllers in Kiev. We know where the plane went down, two hundred miles from where it should have been unless Kiev had placed it there, right over the BUK air defense batteries the Ukrainian Army had placed to support their “not so secret” failed offensive.
We know that Novorussian separatists have only shoulder fired air defense weapons with a maximum targeting altitude of 10,000 feet, incapable of shooting down an airliner.
We also know an Israeli F 15e with APG 70 radar, believed to have been configured as an AWAC (Airborne Warning and Control), left Azerbaijani airspace. The F 15e with a mission commander in the back seat of this two man advanced fighter bomber, the pride of the Israeli air force, could have provided tracking and targeting data or, if necessary, downed the airliner itself from a surprising distance.
CONCLUSION
There are rumors, published in Russia Today, that President Putin had flown over that area minutes before in a plane easily mistaken for MH17. Sources both confirm and deny this. If it is true, we will never know, not until there is a “population reduction” in Moscow’s own “fifth column.”
As for targeting Malaysia, that nation recently held public trials for Benjamin Netanyahu and George W. Bush, convicting them of war crimes. Is this reason enough to bring down two airliners with all aboard? With any nation other than Israel, the answer would be no.
With wars in the Ukraine, Gaza, Syria, Iraq, all managed by Tel Aviv, can we expect more and larger false flag terror attacks with their incumbent media hysteria?
The question is only “when.”

[sigma6]

This would explain why it appears to have "exploded" while there is no evidence of a missile trail from anyone's satellite imagery, and supports the SU-25 trailing the plane, or an Israeli fighter, since by now it's pretty obvious SOMEONE has pretty sophisticated RADAR JAMMING technology.

Revelations of German Pilot:
Shocking Analysis of the “Shooting Down” of Malaysian MH17.
“Aircraft Was Not Hit by a Missile”

http://www.globalresearch.ca/german-pilot-speaks-out-shocking-analysis-of-the-shooting-down-of-malaysian-mh17/5394111

The facts speak clear and loud and are beyond the realm of speculation: The cockpit shows traces of shelling! You can see the entry and exit holes. The edge of a portion of the holes is bent inwards. These are the smaller holes, round and clean, showing the entry points most likely that of a 30 millimeter caliber projectile. The edge of the other, the larger and slightly frayed exit holes showing shreds of metal pointing produced by the same caliber projectiles. Moreover, it is evident that at these exit holes of the outer layer of the double aluminum reinforced structure are shredded or bent – outwardly! Furthermore, minor cuts can be seen, all bent outward, which indicate that shrapnel had forcefully exited through the outer skin from the inside of the cockpit. The open rivets are are also bent outward.

http://www.anderweltonline.com/fileadmin/_processed_/csm_topelement_47299592d2.jpg (http://www.anderweltonline.com/fileadmin/user_upload/PDF/Cockpit-MH017.pdf)
(click on image to get a close-up pdf downloadable image file)


Unfortunately this IS the war... If we are smart enough to accept it, and they can only shoot down so many planes... People will have to die. The question is are we going to allow the deaths of a few hundred people (that we can't stop until the people pull their heads out of the sand) or are we going to start a war that will cause hundreds of thousands of deaths.

I just read that Norway now has NO DEBT. So despite the Oslo Norway attack by the nutjob Freemason who was supposed to don the Police uniform AFTER KILLING the kids... remember how within minutes the Media was already calling it a Muslim terrorist attack REMEMBER that!!... This is one SCANDAL the Media wants people to forget about... The guy gave away their whole modus operandi and admitted being connected to an organization. All ignored by the police, courts, and media (all Freemason controlled)

Anyhow that may have been the reason for the attack... They weren't playing ball. So some people died, the terrorist threat didn't work. And NOW they are debt free, and they control their corporations, NOT the other way around...

US Fiscal Debate Could Learn From Norway
http://truth-out.org/opinion/item/14434-us-fiscal-debate-could-learn-from-norway

how about this one?

[sigma6]

The game is on... and now because of the man, the puppet, and secret homosexual, transgender aficionado (not that's there's anything wrong with being a fake...) the whole world is being thrown into inflation, standard of living decreases all to support their cover up of MH17... bravo, bravo, well done... it has begun... (or like I said before, it's already begun...)

Medvedev: Russia bans agricultural products from EU, USA, Australia, Norway, Canada
http://rt.com/business/178636-russia-bans-products-medvedev/


Medvedev also said that the country was considering a ban of transit flights for European and US Airlines to the Asia-Pacific region. Western sanctions were a “dead-end track”, but Russia has been forced to respond to the measures taken by the western countries, Medvedev added. Alcohol imports from both the EU and the US will not be restricted. “We are actually speaking of an embargo on imports of whole categories of products from countries which have introduced sanctions against Russian organizations and individuals,” Medvedev said.

[Cidersomerset]

MH17: Pockmarks look like from very, very heavy machine gun fire, says
first OSCE monitor on-scene

new Friday 8th August 2014 at 08:55 By david-icke


http://www.davidicke.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/gunkill.jpg


‘Intelligence analysts in the United States had already concluded that Malaysia
Airlines flight MH17 was shot down by an air-to-air missile, and that the Ukrainian
government had had something to do with it.

This corroborates an emerging theory postulated by local investigators that the
Boeing 777-200 was crippled by an air-to-air missile and finished off with cannon
fire from a fighter that had been shadowing it as it plummeted to earth.

In a damning report dated Aug 3, headlined “Flight 17 Shoot-Down Scenario
Shifts”, Associated Press reporter Robert Parry said “some US intelligence
sources had concluded that the rebels and Russia were likely not at fault and
that it appears Ukrainian government forces were to blame”.’

Read more: MH17: Pockmarks look like from very, very heavy machine gun
fire, says first OSCE monitor on-scene





-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


http://assets.nst.com.my/sites/all/themes/custom/nst_theme_2014_mobile/logo.png



MH17: Pockmarks look like from very, very heavy machine gun fire, says first OSCE monitor on-scene

By Haris Hussain - 7 August 2014 @ 11:05 AM



KUALA LUMPUR: INTELLIGENCE analysts in the United States had already
concluded that Malaysia Airlines flight MH17 was shot down by an air-to-air
missile, and that the Ukrainian government had had something to do with it.

This corroborates an emerging theory postulated by local investigators that
the Boeing 777-200 was crippled by an air-to-air missile and finished off with
cannon fire from a fighter that had been shadowing it as it plummeted to earth.

In a damning report dated Aug 3, headlined “Flight 17 Shoot-Down Scenario
Shifts”, Associated Press reporter Robert Parry said “some US intelligence
sources had concluded that the rebels and Russia were likely not at fault and
that it appears Ukrainian government forces were to blame”.

This new revelation was posted on GlobalResearch, an independent research
and media organisation.

In a statement released by the Ukrainian embassy on Tuesday, Kiev denied
that its fighters were airborne during the time MH17 was shot down. This
follows a statement released by the Russian Defence Ministry that its air traffic
control had detected Ukrainian Air Force activity in the area on the same day.

They also denied all allegations made by the Russian government and said the
country’s core interest was in ensuring an immediate, comprehensive, transparent
and unbiased international investigation into the tragedy by establishing a state
commission comprising experts from the International Civil Aviation Organisation
(ICAO) and Eurocontrol.

“We have evidence that the plane was downed by Russian-backed terrorist with
a BUK-M1 SAM system (North Atlantic Treaty Organisation reporting name SA-11)
which, together with the crew, had been supplied from Russia. This was all
confirmed by our intelligence, intercepted telephone conversations of the terrorists
and satellite pictures.

“At the same time, the Ukrainian Armed Forces have never used any anti-aircraft
missiles since the anti-terrorist operations started in early April,” the statement read.


Yesterday, the New Straits Times quoted experts who had said that photographs
of the blast fragmentation patterns on the fuselage of the airliner showed two
distinct shapes — the shredding pattern associated with a warhead packed with
“flechettes”, and the more uniform, round-type penetration holes consistent with
that of cannon rounds.

Parry’s conclusion also stemmed from the fact that despite assertions from the
Obama administration, there has not been a shred of tangible evidence to support
the conclusion that Russia supplied the rebels with the BUK-M1 anti-aircraft missile
system that would be needed to hit a civilian jetliner flying at 33,000 feet.

Parry also cited a July 29 Canadian Broadcasting Corporation interview with Michael
Bociurkiw, one of the first Organisation for Security and Cooperation in Europe (OSCE)
investigators to arrive at the scene of the disaster, near Donetsk.

Bociurkiw is a Ukrainian-Canadian monitor with OSCE who, along with another colleague,
were the first international monitors to reach the wreckage after flight MH17 was brought
down over eastern Ukraine.

In the CBC interview, the reporter in the video preceded it with: “The wreckage was still
smouldering when a small team from the OSCE got there. No other officials arrived for days”.

“There have been two or three pieces of fuselage that have been really pockmarked with
what almost looks like machinegun fire; very, very strong machinegun fire,” Bociurkiw
said in the interview.

Parry had said that Bociurkiw’s testimony is “as close to virgin, untouched evidence and
testimony as we’ll ever get. Unlike a black-box interpretation-analysis long afterward by
the Russian, British or Ukrainian governments, each of which has a horse in this race,
this testimony from Bociurkiw is raw, independent and comes from one of the two earliest
witnesses to the physical evidence.

“That’s powerfully authoritative testimony. Bociurkiw arrived there fast because he
negotiated with the locals for the rest of the OSCE team, who were organising to come
later,” Parry had said.

Retired Lufthansa pilot Peter Haisenko had also weighed in on the new shootdown theory
with Parry and pointed to the entry and exit holes centred around the cockpit.

“You can see the entry and exit holes. The edge of a portion of the holes is bent inwards.
These are the smaller holes, round and clean, showing the entry points most likely that
of a 30mm caliber projectile.

“The edge of the other, the larger and slightly frayed exit holes, show shreds of metal
pointing produced by the same caliber projectiles. Moreover, it is evident that these exit
holes of the outer layer of the double aluminum reinforced structure are shredded or
bent — outwardly.”

He deduced that in order to have some of those holes fraying inwardly, and the others
fraying outwardly, there had to have been a second fighter firing into the cockpit from
the airliner’s starboard side. This is critical, as no surface-fired missile (or shrapnel)
hitting the airliner could possibly punch holes into the cockpit from both sides of the plane.

“It had to have been a hail of bullets from both sides that brought the plane down. This
is Haisenko’s main discovery. You can’t have projectiles going in both directions — into
the left-hand-side fuselage panel from both its left and right sides — unless they are
coming at the panel from different directions.

“Nobody before Haisenko had noticed that the projectiles had ripped through that panel
from both its left side and its right side. This is what rules out any ground-fired missile,”
Parry had said.



http://assets.nst.com.my/images/articles/0708NEWS18.transformed.jpg


The holes in the wreckage of Malaysia Airlines flight MH17 are believed to have come from 30mm cannon fire.


http://www.nst.com.my/node/20961

[Cidersomerset]

Ukraine’s End to Ceasefire Around Malaysian Boeing Crash Site Violates UNSC Resolution

new Friday 8th August 2014 at 08:50 By david-icke


http://www.davidicke.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/get-attachment-403-587x386.jpg


‘Ukraine’s derailment of the ceasefire in the area of the Malaysia Airlines Boeing 777 crash
site violates the United Nations Security Council’s resolution which demanded the lull in
order to investigate into the tragedy, Russia’s Ambassador to the United Nations Vitaly
Churkin said late Thursday.

“Of course, the ceasefire was established by the resolution 2166 so it was obvious that it
was a clear violation of that resolution and something which have very grave consequences
for the ability of the international inspectors to conduct this investigation when they choose
to return to the site,” Churkin said.’

Read more: Ukraine’s End to Ceasefire Around Malaysian Boeing Crash Site Violates UNSC Resolution

http://en.ria.ru/politics/20140808/191829004/Ukraines-End-to-Ceasefire-Around-Malaysian-Boeing-Crash-Site.html

===================================================


Ukrainians stand up against junta

new Friday 8th August 2014 at 08:54 By david-icke


http://www.davidicke.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/k46-8kbcdbg.jpg


‘I was forwarded a video clip from a friend in Kharkov, and was compelled to write
about it. It gives me goosebumps and brings me to tears. As the evil NATO project
to destroy Ukraine and attack Russia begins to implode from its own insane
overreach, there is no substitute for the simple eloquence of people defending their
lives and those of their families.

The truth is beginning to dawn, as would-be cannon fodder kids throughout Ukraine
are burning their military writs, their families blocking roads, young men escaping
to the woods and even to Russia. No fascist lie can live forever, and while the
future is far from clear, there is beginning to be some hope that the chickens may
yet come home to roost in a major way.’

Read more: Ukrainians stand up against junta

http://orientalreview.org/2014/08/07/ukrainians-stand-up-against-junta/

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Kiev used banned arms against civilians in east Ukraine: Russia

Friday 8th August 2014 at 04:06 By david-icke


http://www.davidicke.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/374386_Ukraine-Troops.jpg


‘A Russian investigation team says it possesses solid evidence that Ukrainian
government forces have used prohibited weapons against civilians in the eastern
parts of Ukraine.

“The Investigative Committee of the Russian Federation has gained incontestable
evidence during investigations into a criminal case that Ukraine used banned means
and methods of warfare in the Donetsk and Luhansk regions,” Valdimir Markin, the
committee’s spokesman, said on Wednesday.

The Russian official added that the material could be handed over to relevant
international courts for further review.’

Read more: Kiev used banned arms against civilians in east Ukraine: Russia


http://www.presstv.ir/detail/2014/08/07/374386/banned-arms-used-in-east-ukraine-russia/

[Hervé]

Google interactive map showing where some of the pieces crashed on a map of the area:


https://mapsengine.google.com/map/viewer?mid=z4AY98_9Ww10.kkCKhCqNDe94


... and where one can spot where Rostov is located (eastern tip of Sea of Azov)

PS: Use GiggleTranslate if interested...

[Hervé]

[...]

http://assets.nst.com.my/images/articles/0708NEWS18.transformed.jpg

The holes in the wreckage of Malaysia Airlines flight MH17 are believed to have come from 30mm cannon fire.

As pointed out earlier (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?73055-Malaysian-Plane-MH17-shot-down-with-over-295-on-board.-But-by-who&p=861431&viewfull=1#post861431)... it's time to apply even a smallest bit of discernment here:

30mmm gun hole compared to 20mm gun hole as well as a .50 cal. bullet hole:


http://img68.imageshack.us/img68/3361/img031pkx0.jpg


30mm gun hole in an airplane wing:


http://img68.imageshack.us/img68/4264/img031tan3.jpg


20mm gun holes in an SUV shot from an F-16 during training exercise:


http://www.f-16.net/forum/download/file.php?id=10212&sid=be17112d0e100fd0c0fafe95da15cb1b&mode=view


I have, as yet, to see some evidence of a 30mm gun hole from the MH-17 crash site.

All that's presented are pieces shotgunned with heavy buckshots (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buckshot#Buckshot)!

As for the "Target Practice (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?73055-Malaysian-Plane-MH17-shot-down-with-over-295-on-board.-But-by-who&p=859116&viewfull=1#post859116)" pattern, it is best obtained with either a SAM (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Surface-to-air_missile), AAM (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air-to-air_missile) or... a pressure-cooker bomb... as seen with this one:

http://www.chickenwingscomics.com/forum/index.php?PHPSESSID=2b970089e8c5972f1672b4c42f456599&action=dlattach;topic=110.0;attach=74;image




PS: Rivets head/holes give the scale for the size of these holes in fuselage pieces.

[Cidersomerset]

The holes in the wreckage of Malaysia Airlines flight MH17 are believed to have come from 30mm cannon fire.
As pointed out earlier... it's time to apply even a smallest bit of discernment here:

30mmm gun hole compared to 20mm gun hole as well as a .50 cal. bullet hole:

I did notice that , but did not want to interfere with the article and thought you would
point out the fact that the picture does not illustrate the point they were making.




Crunch time is coming ..........

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


RAW: Kiev shellings devastate E. Ukraine towns

yA8ZTEzhkO0



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Grief, destruction & mayhem: 'Ukraine in complete disaster'

9zeCxcpqoQY


Published on 7 Aug 2014


The Ukrainian army is encroaching on the largest city in the country's east
to crush the anti-government resistance there. A series of attacks on the
center of Donetsk hit two new apartment blocks. At least 1 local was killed.
Ukrainian capital Kiev has also witnessed a turbulent 24 hours. People on
its central square first clashed with police and burnt tires, then later started
dismantling the pavement.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


RAW: Militants shoot down Ukrainian fighter jet

ncWk93wzhyQ

Published on 8 Aug 2014


A Ukranian MiG-29 fighter jet tumbled to earth in a fireball on Thursday
after it was blasted out of the air while flying low over rebel-held territory
in eastern Ukraine. Two pilots ejected out but were reportedly captured
by militants.

[Slorri]

Google interactive map showing where some of the pieces crashed on a map of the area:


https://mapsengine.google.com/map/viewer?mid=z4AY98_9Ww10.kkCKhCqNDe94


... and where one can spot where Rostov is located (eastern tip of Sea of Azov)

PS: Use GiggleTranslate if interested...



A good map, but it is only a speculation of there being a missile. (Question mark).

"Trajectoire approximative du missile selon le renseignement ukrainien. A Mach 3, il aurait donc mis environ 20 secondes à atteindre sa cible. Aucun témoin n'a vu l'explosion, qui a eu lieu au-dessus d'un nuage."

No one saw the explosion, that took place above a cloud. :o

There seems to have been some clouds, but not a complete cloud-cover.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-hbAirCuNnA

[Hervé]

[...]

A good map, but it is only a speculation of there being a missile. (Question mark).

"Trajectoire approximative du missile selon le renseignement ukrainien. A Mach 3, il aurait donc mis environ 20 secondes à atteindre sa cible. Aucun témoin n'a vu l'explosion, qui a eu lieu au-dessus d'un nuage."

No one saw the explosion, that took place above a cloud. :o

There seems to have been some clouds, but not a complete cloud-cover.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-hbAirCuNnA

That's why watching the eye witnesses video is very important because:


[...]

Found the video which goes with the above text (sorry, French captions):


-ZABCY8IMRA


And here is my version from the caption and the guy's accompanying gestures:

Yellow T-shirt guy = Alexander --> Alex

Grey T-shirt guy = Vassilly --> Vas

On the spot of the Rapsinoye/Rozsypne crash site where the flight deck, front landing gear and forward bottom fuselage crashed.


Alex: We've seen commercial airliners flying at high altitude all the time, 10-15 per day.

Alex: But the big Malaysian Boeing we didn't see because it was in the cloud.

Alex: Then, I saw like a dot in the sky [points in that direction], very far away [i.e. below cloud cover] [what attracted his attention to it?]

Alex: I saw it climb up towards the cloud and "BOOM!"

Vas: It went into the cloud and we heard an explosion.

Alex: Then there were more explosions and debris started falling around.

Alex: When that piece [flight deck forward fuselage, Rapsinoye/Rozsypne crash-site] people were thrown out and falling off the sky like rain.

Alex: The plane came from this side and was going that way to Malaysia. It was flying toward Rostov [pointing in that direction].

Alex: The other one, it was catching up to it from behind, climbing up behind it and went like this [gesture of catching up with MH17 from right side then turning left to face it]

Alex: Remember, it was a cloudy day. I only saw that thing climbing up towards the cloud ... and saw it turn like that [gesture of left turn], right into the cloud.

Alex: A few seconds later, the explosion happened... that's all.

Vas: Then, from Grabovo/Hrabove, we saw a large smoke column rising, really huge.This is a key early interview... because about every one missed the key element in it!

Whatever shot down 9M-MRD on its MH17 flight, whether fighter jet or Buk-M1...

... that thing was in PURSUIT mode!

It was following the flight path of MH17!

That means it came from the opposite direction all mass media are preaching it was coming from (Snizhne or other anti-fascists held grounds).









... that thing was in PURSUIT mode!... not coming from Snizhne as that Paris Match's diagram infers.

That diagram is only good for approximate locations of elements of the broken down plane and demonstrating two paths which can correspond to two different (at least) explosions.


Considering this to be a False Flag event, it would make sense that the perpetrators wouldn't have bet on all their eggs in one basket but considered fail-safe systems...

[Hervé]

Another very interesting piece of technological design, which was intended to disprove the use of a Buk-M1 SAM against 9M-MRD, ends up supporting that, indeed, there was some kind of Buk-M1 type of hit:


Chief of the Russian Land Forces’ tactical air defense troops Maj. Gen. Mikhail Krush said he doubts that the Malaysian passenger liner was brought down by a Buk surface-to-air missile system. “No one observed a Buk engaging targets in that region on that day, which provides 95 percent proof that Buk systems were not used in this concrete case,” the general said in an interview with the Voyenno-Promyshlenny Kuryer military weekly to be published on Wednesday [July 30th]. ”This is no more than a theory for now. However, a guided missile launched by a Buk missile system leaves behind a specific smoke trail as it flies, like a comet. In daylight this trail can be clearly seen within a radius of 20-25 kilometers from the missile system. It cannot remain unnoticed. There are no eyewitnesses to confirm there was any. No one reported a launch. This is one thing,” he said. “Second. The holes left by the strike elements on the Boeing’s outer skin indicate that the warhead blew up from below and sideways. A Buk missile strikes the target from above,” he said. “The damage done to the plane suggests that a different missile was used. Our guidance method is a zoom, when the missile strikes the target from above covering it with a thick cloud of fragments” the general said. “I cannot state categorically, guided by this data, but I can suggest, using my experience, that it was not a Buk missile that hit the Boeing,” the expert said.

From: http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2014/08/5-august-even-certain-now-obamas-ukrainian-stooges-intentionally-malaysian-airliner.htmlThat's because the proximity fuse is designed to trigger once the closest distance has been reached. That is, once the distance missile-target starts to increase.

This piece of info supports a SAM hit because there are no evidence of holes from below:


http://projectavalon.net/forum4/images/misc/quote_icon.png Posted by Amzer Zo (here) (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?p=861103#post861103)

...

No bullet holes...

Front landing gear bay door:

https://i.embed.ly/1/display/resize?key=1e6a1a1efdb011df84894040444cdc60&url=%2F%2Ffarm4.static.flickr.com%2F3914%2F14725463561_c51f58d4e9_z.jpg&width=490
https://storify.com/vpkivimaki/mh17-hull-parts




https://www.metabunk.org/sk/143837__100_Layer_2_RGB8__2014-07-26_08-43-10_2014-07-26_08-45-06.jpg

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Bttxg5hIEAAFMYR.jpg

... and these showing the flight deck floor (where the pilot and co-pilot are seated on)


http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-IodWCiVfFrM/U9lEVDPvMdI/AAAAAAAABHE/mtLNoIl48s0/s1600/bttxg5hieaafmyr.jpg


http://img.over-blog-kiwi.com/1/11/53/93/20140730/ob_7b7a3e_mitraillage-1.jpg

***************************


... thinking about it, the following is also consistent with glancing "diabolos" that bounced off the port (left) wing tip:


http://ic.pics.livejournal.com/frallik/12164489/1026294/1026294_original.jpg

***

... diabolos:

http://tuzic.users.photofile.ru/photo/tuzic/115226106/xlarge/121981747.jpg


... and there was some kind of trail seen:


file:///C:\Users\Owner\AppData\Local\Temp\msohtml1\01\clip_image002.gifA blog (http://avva.livejournal.com/2788606.html) makes a reference to audio recordings that were provided to the blogger by someone. The audio is an intercept of Zello App (wi-fi walki-talkie) conversations from the area of the incident. Of a particular interest is a statement made by a woman @ 2:25 -

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iqSZu-HYWOA#t=161

"... guys, I just listened to a story [not sure if she's referring to someone else or this overall conversation happening]... (sigh) ... I was in the vegetable garden, it's actually [located] in October [reference to Red October farm - хутор Красный Октябрь - Червоный Жовтень] ... heard a roaring sound, came from nowhere this roar. Literally it was all quiet, and right away this loud roar. I look up ... something was flying ... well, I can't say for [sure] but it was like flying from direction where Saurivka is... I thought it was a missile.. then I called my mom, we went down to the cellar, and afterwards heard some explosions. When it was flying, it already had a white smoke and had a loud roaring sound and was flying over Red October farm towards the town, in that direction".

Once she's done talking, a second later, a male voice states "The mine #8 confirms".

Then another male voice: "I was also standing on my balcony [in some apartment building] and saw [can't make it what he says] go into the clouds and then I heard explosion"
LarryLat (https://www.metabunk.org/members/larrylat.5258/), Jul 23, 2014 (https://www.metabunk.org/threads/mh17-evidence-a-missile-was-used-shrapnel-etc.3997/page-3#post-117964) #83 (https://www.metabunk.org/threads/mh17-evidence-a-missile-was-used-shrapnel-etc.3997/page-3#post-117964)
Roaring noise:

_cSxjiLzyxE


White smoke (starts ~ 1:25):

LSXMhaFntrU



So.. a hit by some type of Buk-M1 SAM is being un-ruled out...


******************

Holes (top)

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-0Q_0bm0ZYGA/U9lR9ow_z2I/AAAAAAAAYcc/6B-640Acs2E/w800-h800/MH17_Cockpit_v2.jpg

... no holes (bottom)

[Hervé]

Debris field as published by the government of the Netherlands, a lot bigger than previous ones:


http://www.rijksoverheid.nl/bestanden/documenten-en-publicaties/kaarten/2014/08/09/kaart-vliegramp-mh17/20140809-mh17-kaart-fasering-1600.gif


From: http://www.rijksoverheid.nl/onderwerpen/vliegramp-mh17/documenten-en-publicaties/kaarten/2014/08/09/kaart-vliegramp-mh17.html

I haven't found what the numbers refer to, yet.

[Cidersomerset]

Malaysia wants the ‘missing’ Ukrainian ATC tapes

Sunday 10th August 2014 at 06:32 By david-icke

http://www.davidicke.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/Untitled-7-587x306.jpg



‘Ukraine has denied that its State Security Service (SBU) had seized the air-to-ground
transmission tapes between its air traffic controllers and Malaysia Airlines flight MH17
on the day the jetliner was shot down.

Its ambassador to Malaysia Ihor Humennyi, in an exclusive interview with the New
Straits Times, said that reports alleging that the SBU had seized the recordings had
not been independently verified or confirmed by Kiev.’

Read more: Malaysia wants the ‘missing’ Ukrainian ATC tapes


http://www.nst.com.my/node/21260

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Malaysian press charges Ukraine government shot down MH17

‘A Thursday article in the New Straits Times, Malaysia’s flagship English-language
newspaper, charged the US- and European-backed Ukrainian regime in Kiev with
shooting down Malaysian Airlines flight MH17 in east Ukraine last month. Given the
tightly controlled character of the Malaysian media, it appears that the accusation
that Kiev shot down MH17 has the imprimatur of the Malaysian state.

The US and European media have buried this remarkable report, which refutes the
wave of allegations planted by the CIA in international media claiming that Russian
president Vladimir Putin was responsible for the destruction of MH17, without
presenting any evidence to back up this charge.’

Read more: Malaysian press charges Ukraine government shot down MH17

http://www.opednews.com/articles/Malaysian-press-charges-Uk-by-Alex-Lantier-Government-Corruption_Malaysia-Airlines-Flight-17_Putin_Russia-140809-576.html

http://www.davidicke.com/headlines/

[Cidersomerset]

How World Bank & IMF Plan to ‘Dismantle’ Ukrainian Economy

Sunday 10 August 2014


By david-icke

2T7QcpodmQs


Published on 4 Aug 2014

West looks to ramp up gas production, as Vice President
Biden’s son named leader in Ukrainian gas company Burisma

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

: NATO plane arrives in Ukraine with $4.5 mn worth of military aid

FCo5cqHG74Y

Published on 8 Aug 2014


Canadian a C130J Hercules aircraft has arrived in Kharkov carrying US$4.5
million worth of non-lethal military equipment for Ukraine. FULL STORY:
http://on.rt.com/kvskmt

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ukrainians flee war horrors, Kiev warns of final countdown for Donetsk & Lugansk

y4LyNQI7G44

Published on 9 Aug 2014


The Ukrainian army says it's preparing to take Lugansk and Donetsk in the east,
street by street, building by building. Maria Finoshina reports from the
Russia-Ukraine border, where thousands are escaping the warzone.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
====================================================

http://static.bbci.co.uk/frameworks/barlesque/2.64.0/desktop/3.5/img/blq-blocks_grey_alpha.png

10 August 2014 Last updated at 16:13

Ukraine crisis: Army pounds rebels in Donetsk


http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/76855000/jpg/_76855283_3608ddbf-dee3-44a5-a65b-ff73dbd3fbeb.jpg
A serviceman walks near an APC while a helicopter flies on the position of the
Ukrainian troops in Donetsk region on August 9 Ukraine has deployed considerable
military hardware in its battle to take back Donetsk


Ukraine's military has pounded the main pro-Russian rebel stronghold of Donetsk
with artillery fire, damaging buildings but few casualties are reported.

A military spokesman said the rebels were in "panic and chaos" and had begun to
desert en masse.

Ukraine is mulling the possibility of allowing a humanitarian mission into the area,
as residents struggle without power or reliable sources of food.

Some 1,500 people are estimated to have died since the conflict began in April.

Rebels sparked the four-month battle when they overran large swathes of the east
and declared independence from Ukraine.

Hardship and fear

The rebels have sent out mixed signals in recent days, calling for a ceasefire but
also insisting they would carry on fighting until the army laid down its weapons.

Russia, which is widely accused of providing military support to the rebels, has
repeatedly offered to send a humanitarian mission.

Russian media quote Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov as saying he is in talks with the
Ukrainian government, the Red Cross and the UN about an aid mission.

Western powers had expressed fears that Russia would use a humanitarian mission
as a pretext to send in troops.

Ukrainian President Petro Poroshenko said late on Saturday he would consider an
aid mission, but only if it was international and unarmed.

http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/76855000/jpg/_76855277_f7086410-fe04-4277-a5b5-3bec005beae8.jpg

People sit inside a bomb shelter in a maternity hospital during shelling in Donetsk,
eastern Ukraine, on August 10 Donetsk residents are suffering increasing hardship,
spending much of their time in shelters

A serviceman walks in the camp of the Ukrainian troops in Donetsk region on

http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/76855000/jpg/_76855367_d586e83c-8ed2-4ca0-bcc8-0ce155a40b0d.jpg
August 9 Ukrainian troops are encamped around the city

Donetsk residents are living under increasing hardship, many taking refuge in
basements and bomb shelters.

"This is a real war: it's impossible to live in this city. I've been sleeping in the
basement for the past week," Inna Drobyshevskaya, a 48-year-old lawyer, told the
Associated Press.

The AP reported constant shelling on Sunday morning.

Buses were still burning on the streets on Sunday after apparently being hit in firefights.

Residential buildings were also badly damaged, according to AP.

Military spokesman Oleksiy Dmytrashkivsky said a number of strikes on enemy
positions had been carried out overnight.

"A large number of enemy hardware and personnel was destroyed. Panic and chaos
have been noted among the terrorists," he said.

http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/76269000/gif/_76269315_ukraine_rebel_control_area_.gif


Ukraine rebel area
Some 300,000 people have already fled the city, which had a population of one
million before the conflict began.

In the other rebel stronghold of Luhansk, residents have been without power for a
week and are struggling to find reliable sources of food.Reports on Saturday
claimed the army had recaptured Krasnyi Luch, a city on the main road between
the two cities.The city's recapture would in effect divide the two rebel strongholds
and allow the army to further squeeze Donetsk.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-28732180

[sigma6]

AUGUST 04, 2014

The Second Aircraft
Was Malaysia Flight 17 Shot Down?

http://www.counterpunch.org/2014/08/04/was-malaysia-flight-17-shot-down/



The fact that Russian radar spotted a SU 25 in the area where MH17 was attacked, has persuaded many that Haisenko’s analysis is credible. Adding to the controversy, international monitor Michael Bociurkiw, who was one of the first inspectors from the Organization for Security and Cooperation in Europe (OSCE) to reach the crash site and who spent more than a week examining the ruins–also appears to be convinced that the ill-fated jetliner was not hit by a missile but downed by machinegun fire consistent with the myriad bullet-holes visible on the fuselage. Here’s what he told on CBC World News:

“There have been two or three pieces of fuselage that have been really pock-marked. It almost looks like machine gun fire; very, very strong machine gun fire that has left these unique marks that we haven’t seen anywhere else.

We’ve also been asked if we’ve seen any signs of a missile?

Well, no we haven’t. That’s the answer.” (“Malaysia Airlines MH17: Michael Bociurkiw talks about being first at the crash site“, CBC News. Note: The above quote is from the video)

The idea that MH17 was downed by a surface-to-air missile (from a BUK system) is a theory that originated with the US government and spread by the western media. The theory has been repeated thousands of times in thousands of newspapers and TV programs without a shred of corroborating evidence. Needless to say, the repetition of a fable, does not make it true. The public needs more facts to determine what really happened. Unfortunately, the Obama administration has been stonewalling the investigation, preferring instead to use the tragedy to advance their own narrow political agenda by attacking Putin and smearing Russia. This strategy has clearly backfired as we can see by the fact that Haisenko’s analysis has caught on like wildfire convincing many that the missile theory is a fake.



Malaysia Airlines MH17: Michael Bociurkiw (First responder to crash site)

7ze9BNGDyk4
oh my, it looks like they're showing those "rusty" airplane parts again... hmmm :rolleyes:

[jerry]

Was Putin Targeted for Mid-Air Assassination?
Exclusive: Official Washington’s conventional wisdom on the Malaysia Airlines shoot-down blames Russian President Putin, but some U.S. intelligence analysts think Putin, whose plane was flying nearby, may have been the target of Ukrainian hardliners who hit the wrong plane, writes Robert Parry.

TND Guest Contributor: Robert Parry

U.S. intelligence analysts are weighing the possibility that the shoot-down of Malaysia Airlines Flight 17 was a botched attempt by extremists in the Ukrainian government to assassinate Russian President Vladimir Putin whose aircraft was returning from South America the same day, according to a source briefed on the U.S. investigation.

A side-by-side comparison of the Russian presidential jetliner and the Malaysia Airlines plane.
A side-by-side comparison of the Russian presidential jetliner and the Malaysia Airlines plane.

If true, the direction of the investigation into the July 17 crash has veered dramatically from initial U.S. government allegations that eastern Ukrainian rebels, using a Russian-supplied anti-aircraft battery, were responsible for bringing down the plane killing 298 people onboard.

The Obama administration used those claims to whip up an anti-Russian hysteria that prompted European countries to ratchet up economic sanctions against Moscow, starting what now looks like an incipient trade war.

But the U.S. analysts dismissed those original suspicions because they could find no evidence that such a missile battery had been supplied by the Russians or was in the possession of the rebels, prompting a shift in thinking toward a scenario in which Ukrainian hardliners working with elements of the air force may have tried to ambush Putin’s plane but instead hit the Malaysian airliner, said the source speaking on condition of anonymity.

Putin flies in a plane with similar red, white and blue markings as the Malaysian airliner and was known to be on his way home after a six-day visit to South America. But his plane took a different route and landed safely in Moscow.

After the crash, as U.S. intelligence analysts pored over phone intercepts and other intelligence data, they began to suspect that the motive for the shoot-down was the desire among some Ukrainian extremists to eliminate Putin whom they had been privately vowing to kill – words initially viewed as empty bluster but which were looked at differently in hindsight – the source said.

If some Ukrainian authorities were hoping to ambush Putin’s plane, they also would have had only a matter of minutes to detect the aircraft’s presence and make a decision to fire, so it could be plausible that the attackers made a hasty decision to hit Putin’s plane before they realized that they had made a tragic mistake.

Blaming Russia

After the crash, the Ukrainian government quickly assembled some pieces of information from “social media” to pin the blame on the eastern Ukrainian rebels and the Russian government for what would have been a reckless decision to supply such powerful weapons to a poorly trained force.

The rebels denied having a Buk anti-aircraft battery capable of reaching an aircraft flying at 33,000 feet and the Russians denied having supplied one, but those denials were brushed aside by the mainstream U.S. news media and were rejected as well by senior U.S. officials. Only three days after the crash, Secretary of State John Kerry made the rounds of five Sunday talk shows to embrace the Ukrainian government’s assertions although the official investigation into the crash had just begun.

The following Tuesday senior U.S. intelligence officials briefed mainstream reporters from several news outlets offering qualified support to the claims by Kiev and Kerry, but some journalists noted the lack of any real evidence and the briefing’s curious reliance on “social media” rather than aerial reconnaissance, phone intercepts or other official sources. The absence of this corroborating evidence suggested that the case against the rebels and Russia was weaker than the Obama administration was letting on.

Yet, because of the high-level endorsements of Russia’s presumed guilt, the U.S. intelligence analysts are moving cautiously in developing their alternative scenario, said the source, who added that another line of inquiry still being pursued is that the Ukrainian military brought down the passenger plane simply to create a provocation that could be turned against the rebels and Russia.

But the assassination motive would seem to make more sense given the intense hatred expressed by Ukrainian leaders toward Putin and how Ukrainian extremists would view the murder of Putin as a giant feather in their cap.

Still, the idea of assassinating the Russian president by shooting down his plane – even if the attack were carried out by hardliners without the approval of top officials – could have provoked a major international crisis. Nuclear-armed Russia would have almost surely retaliated against Ukraine, possibly with a full-scale invasion which could have escalated into a dangerous military confrontation with the United States.

This possibility of a cascading crisis beyond the control of rational policymakers has always been a risk since the U.S.-backed overthrow of elected Ukrainian President Viktor Yanukovych on Feb. 22, a putsch spearheaded by neo-Nazi militias though also supported by more moderate political figures. The U.S. State Department quickly embraced the coup regime as “legitimate,” but ethnic Russians in eastern Ukraine, which had been Yanukovych’s political base, resisted the new order.

Crimea, another stronghold of ethnic Russians, voted overwhelmingly to secede from Ukraine and rejoin Russia, a move endorsed by Putin and backed by Russian troops who were stationed in Crimea, the site of the Russian naval base at Sebastopol. The annexation of Crimea was heartily denounced by President Barack Obama and U.S. allies in Europe, who began applying sanctions on Russia.

Meanwhile, the new Ukrainian government, which gave the neo-Nazis several ministries in appreciation for their key role in the coup, began calling the ethnic Russian resistance “terrorists.” New National Guard units, formed from neo-Nazi militias, were dispatched to intimidate ethnic Russians in the southern city of Odessa, where scores were killed when a pro-Kiev mob set a trade union building ablaze.

A Worsening Crisis

As the crisis worsened, several eastern cities in the Donbass region also voted to secede and an armed resistance emerged against the Kiev regime, which responded by vowing to crush the rebellion with an “anti-terrorist operation” that has included artillery and aerial bombardments against towns and cities held by the rebels.

On Friday, a Ukrainian parliamentary group reported that more than 10,000 people have been killed in Kiev’s offensive since April, a number far higher than earlier estimates.

Angered by the mounting violence, the Russians lodged murder accusations against two Ukrainian officials, Interior Minister Arsen Avakov and Ihor Kolomoisky, a billionaire oligarch who was appointed by the coup regime to be governor of the southeastern Dnipropetrovsk Region.

Kolomoisky, known for his strong-arm business tactics including deploying paid thugs to intimidate rivals, is now using his fortune to finance paramilitary units, such as the Dnipro Battalion which is considered one of the most aggressive and brutal units in the “anti-terrorist operation” in eastern Ukraine.

Since the February coup, Kolomoisky also has engaged in a bitter war of words with Putin whom he publicly mocked as a “schizophrenic shorty.” But Kolomoisky’s fury toward Putin has intensified in the face of the Russian murder charge and other threats to the billionaire’s PrivatBank holdings. In private conversations, Kolomoisky has made angry threats against Putin, the source said.

Other Ukrainian officials have vowed to kill Putin. Ex-Prime Minister Yulia Tymoshenko, a onetime Kolomoisky ally, said in an intercepted phone: “It’s about time we grab our guns and kill, go kill those damn Russians together with their leader.”

Though U.S. intelligence was aware of such threatening anti-Putin rhetoric via American intercepts, the rants were not taken seriously, at least not until after the shoot-down of the Malaysian airliner, the source said. Now, they are reportedly being studied as a possible motive for the July 17 attack.

Another curious development was the sudden resignation on Thursday of Andriy Parubiy as chief of Ukraine’s national security. A longtime neo-Nazi leader, Parubiy had organized and directed the paramilitary forces that spearheaded the putsch on Feb. 22 forcing Yanukovych and his government officials to flee for their lives.

Parubiy refused to explain his reason for quitting but some analysts believe it may have a connection to the Malaysia Airlines shoot-down, the source said. The U.S. intelligence analysts specifically said their evidence does not implicate Ukraine’s current President Petro Poroshenko or Prime Minister Arseniy Yatsenyuk, but they did not extend that clearance to the more extreme elements of the government, the source said.

Russian Evidence

Based on technical evidence that Moscow has supplied to U.S. and other investigators, it appears that the Ukrainian military had several Russian-made Buk anti-aircraft missiles along the path of the Malaysia Airlines flight as well as two jetfighters in the air in the vicinity of the doomed plane.

Eyewitnesses also reported seeing one or two Ukrainian jetfighters near the airliner right before it was blown out of the sky. Two theories are that the jetfighters were trying to identify the plane or were responsible for finishing it off if the missile failed to do the job.

An independent analysis by an expert on the Buk systems, who has reviewed the Russian evidence, says it shows that one of the Ukrainian anti-aircraft batteries was in position to take down the Malaysian airliner by inflicting damage consistent with the wreckage that has so far been recovered from the plane.

As the pieces of this puzzle fill in, the image that emerges is of a possible Ukrainian ambush of a jetliner heading into Russian airspace that had markings very similar to President Putin’s official plane. As shocking as that picture may be, there is a grim logic to it, given the demonization of Putin who has been likened to Hitler and Stalin by pundits and politicians from Ukraine to the United States.

However, even if the U.S. intelligence analysts do assemble a strong case implicating an extremist faction within the Ukrainian government, there is still the political problem for the Obama administration of dealing with a conclusion so dramatically at odds with the original accusations aimed at the rebels and Russia.

Powerful people are notoriously unwilling to admit mistakes, especially when it could open them to charges that they rushed to judgment and behaved recklessly. There are similarities with the hasty U.S. conclusions a year ago when sarin gas killed hundreds outside Damascus on Aug. 21 – and the finger of blame was pointed immediately at the government of President Bashar al-Assad.

On Aug. 30, Secretary Kerry declared repeatedly that “we know” that the Assad regime was guilty, but some U.S. intelligence analysts were privately expressing their doubts and refused to endorse a “Government Assessment” which presented no verifiable evidence to support the accusations. The four-page white paper also suppressed the dissents of the analysts.

Over the ensuing months as much of Kerry’s case fell apart, some of these analysts came to believe that rebel extremists were likely responsible for the attack as a provocation to draw in the U.S. military into the civil war on their side. But the U.S. government has never retracted its allegations against the Syrian government. [For details, see Consortiumnews.com’s “The Collapsing Syria-Sarin Case.”]

Given how far senior U.S. officials have gone in heaping blame for the Malaysia Airlines shoot-down on the rebels and the Russians, it is hard to envision a walk-back of those accusations regardless of the actual evidence. To compel that would require true courage from U.S. analysts or from international investigators looking into the crash.

It is never easy to contradict important people, especially when they have leveled such serious accusations so confidently. That is one reason why Kerry and the mainstream U.S. news media should have held back on their conclusions until a thorough investigation had been done.

[sigma6]

Ukrainian Soldiers Taking Refuge In Russia
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-28652096

Despite strained relations between the two countries, the servicemen have been allowed to enter, including Ukrainian Jews! and have been provided with food and shelter. Yet the BBC is saying these soldiers are blaming Russia for the violence!?... Let me get this straight, they are being granted free food and shelter, they can come and go as they please, they can even blame Russia, live on BBC TV, who themselves were obviously granted access to go into the Russian territory and interview them. And they will have more security than the Ukrainian civilians who are being targeted in their own homes by the very soldiers they just fled from!!!

I don't know about you, but this shows a lot of honour and strength and character on the part of Russia... I wonder what would happen if they crossed the border into the US while attacking fellow Americans living across the border?... That would be so predictable given the paranoid Police State mentality of the US. They would have been immediately incarcerated as a potential enemy combatants, or as a spy threat and interrogated to dredge out every piece of intelligence that could be wrung out of them, and you wouldn't from them again from months and years...

The Times... They Are A Changin'...
e7qQ6_RV4VQ

[Cidersomerset]

Ron Paul: US knows 'more than it's telling' over MH17 crash

Yf71VvDfod0

Published on 11 Aug 2014


Washington's being accused of hiding the truth about the Malaysian plane
crash in eastern Ukraine. Former US presidential candidate and congressman
Ron Paul claims the government knows more than its letting on.

RT LIVE http://rt.com/on-air

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Toxic Threat: Shelling near Donetsk chemical plant raises fear of eco disaster


c_JKdEADHKg

Published on 11 Aug 2014


Ukraine is at risk of an environmental disaster as Kiev’s army continues to bomb
the Donestk region, nearly hitting its largest chemical plant that stores lethal
agents. READ MORE http://on.rt.com/07u7bd

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[Cidersomerset]

http://static.bbci.co.uk/frameworks/barlesque/2.64.0/desktop/3.5/img/blq-blocks_grey_alpha.png


11 August 2014 Last updated at 20:49

Ukraine and Russia 'agree' to aid mission to LuhanskA young boy holds a loaf of bread as
residents of the eastern Ukrainian city of Lysychansk queue to receive bread distributed
as part of humanitarian aid on 27 July 2014.


http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/76878000/jpg/_76878507_023311405-1.jpg

Residents in Donesk and Luhansk are facing food shortages and power cuts due to the
fighting Continue reading the main story


Ukraine and Russia say they have agreed to a Red Cross-led humanitarian aid mission
to the eastern Ukrainian rebel stronghold of Luhansk.

The Kremlin earlier announced it was working with the Red Cross to send a humanitarian
aid convoy to the region.

The EU Commission chief has warned Russia not to carry out unilateral military action
"under any pretext".

Ukraine and Western governments had previously objected to Russia sending any aid
into the region.The International Committee of the Red Cross (ICRC) confirmed it had
held talks with officials from both countries, and laid down strict guidelines to uphold
its neutral role in conflicts.

Ukrainian servicemen ride atop an armoured personnel carrier as they patrol an area
near Donetsk on 11 August 2014.

http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/76879000/jpg/_76879280_023472541-1.jpg

Ukrainian government forces pounded rebel-held Donetsk with artillery over the weekend
At least 1,500 people have died since Ukraine's new government sent in troops to put
down an insurrection by pro-Russia separatists in the Donetsk and Luhansk regions in mid-April.

The fighting has displaced hundreds of thousands of people, many of whom have fled to Russia.

Ukrainian forces have now encircled Donetsk, a city of one million people before the unrest
began, and residents are struggling without power or reliable sources of food.

Humanitarian convoy

Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov confirmed on Russian TV that an agreement had been
reached with Kiev and the Red Cross on humanitarian aid for eastern Ukraine.

But the Russian military will not be involved in the aid convoy sent, President Putin's spokesman
Dmitry Peskov told the AFP news agency.

Ukrainian President Petro Poroshenko's press secretary, Svyatoslav Tsegolko, also said in a
statement that a humanitarian mission to Luhansk had been agreed with the Red Cross with
the EU, Russia, Germany and other partners participating.

US President Barack Obama confirmed that the US would take an active part in the mission,
he added.

The Kremlin did not say when the aid convoy would leave. The Red Cross acknowledged last
week that it had received an offer from the Russian foreign minister about organising aid
convoys to the affected areas in Ukraine.


http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/76879000/jpg/_76879283_023472864-1.jpg

A Ukrainian soldier walks past a damaged car which was used by pro-Russian militants who
tried to break through the checkpoint of Ukrainian forces, near the eastern Ukrainian city of
Donetsk on 11 August 2014. Ukrainian government forces say they are in the final stages of
the battle for control of Donetsk

http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/76879000/jpg/_76879278_023469862-1.jpg


People stand at the entrance of a makeshift bomb shelter in Donetsk, on 10 August 2014.
People in Donetsk have sought shelter in makeshift bomb shelters amid the artillery fire


http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/76871000/jpg/_76871683_donetskgrassap.jpg

Prisoner/smouldering grass A prisoner tramples on grass left smouldering after shells landed
at a high-security jail outside Donetsk The Ukrainian government in Kiev and Western powers
had earlier expressed concern that a Russian humanitarian mission in the east could be used
as a pretext to bring Russian military forces across the border.

Nato Secretary General Anders Fogh Rasmussen has accused Russia of using humanitarian
grounds as a pretext for military intervention.

In a telephone conversation with President Putin on Monday, EU Commission chief Jose
Manuel Barroso "warned against any unilateral military actions in Ukraine, under any pretext,
including humanitarian," an EU commission statement said.

President Barroso made a separate telephone call to the Ukrainian president to discuss the
situation in Luhansk, it added.

Pro-Russia separatists sparked a four-month battle with Ukrainian government forces when
they overran large swathes of the east and declared independence from Ukraine.

Ukrainian government artillery has been pounding areas on the outskirts of rebel-held Donetsk.

It led to the escape of 106 prisoners from a high-security prison on the outskirts of the city,
after the facility was hit by shells on Sunday night.

The fighting has also prevented a full investigation of the MH17 air disaster, in which 298 people died.

The Malaysia Airlines plane was brought down in the conflict zone in eastern Ukraine on 17
July and the remains of many of the victims are still to be recovered.

It is strongly suspected that the plane was shot down by pro-Russian rebels. Russia and the
separatists have blamed the Ukrainian military.

BBC map

http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/76671000/gif/_76671157_ukraine_rebel_control_624_latest(1).gif

More on This Story

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-28743478

[Cidersomerset]

Kiev’s Fake Picture Scam

new Tuesday 12th August 2014 at 09:24 By david-icke


http://www.davidicke.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/ukraine-fake-russian-soldier-picture.png


‘Faking pictures can backfire badly if you’re caught. A government will only risk it when
the stakes are high, the risks are low, and there’s no other evidence it can use.

The best example is the notorious ‘Russian Soldier’ image, which the Kiev government proudly
presented to John Kerry as the long-sought evidence of Russian’s military involvement in Ukraine.

It inspired massive headlines in all the western media, and was only exposed as a fake when
the central picture turned out to be stolen from the Instagram account of photographer
Maxim Dondyuk – where it was clearly labelled ‘Slavyansk’ and not ‘Georgia’.’


We may laugh now, but the hoax isn’t quite as stupid as it seems. Precautions had been
taken against exposure, and those amateurish red and yellow rings served as cunning
camouflage in any image search, where Google naturally interpreted them as an integral
part of the picture. If it hadn’t been for a sophisticated image-identifier from Tineye, Kiev
would probably have got away with it and NATO might have been in Ukraine before May.

Even exposure didn’t cost Kiev much. The western media protected them, the NYT’s
ambiguous retraction was buried deep on page 9, and many people still believe the
‘little green men’ were definitely identified as Russian soldiers. Kiev lost little, gained
much, and proved how effective such fakes could really be.

But there’s a different kind of fake washing round the internet at the moment – one
where the stakes are low, the risks astronomically high, and where the effects on the
supposed creator can only be damaging. You know the things – those simple unmarked
pictures of Ukrainian atrocities which circulate for a couple of days before being
triumphantly exposed by Kiev’s INFORESIST as ‘retreads’ from Syria, Bosnia or Palestine.
Indeed, there are now so many that US government employee Julia Davis is show-casing
them all in a long-running series entitled Russia’s


'GRAPHIC PICS ON REST OF REPORT '.....


Read more: Kiev’s Fake Picture Scam


http://www.globalresearch.ca/kievs-fake-picture-scam/5395298


======================================================


http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/sitelogos/logo_mol.gif


Russia told by Europe not to send 'aid convoy' to rebels in
Ukraine as Kremlin accused of massing 45,000 troops on border
EC President Barroso rang Mr Putin today to warn against unilateral military action
Nato Secretary-General Rasmussen: 'Russia developing pretext for invasion'
Kremlin said Moscow would send help to Russian-speaking eastern Ukraine

By Paul Donnelley

Published: 22:20, 11 August 2014 | Updated: 22:37, 11 August 2014


President Vladimir Putin is sending an aid convoy to eastern Ukraine in spite
of a warning from the West not to use it as a pretext for invasion.

Ukraine has said that 45,000 Russian troops are on its border today and Nato
has added that it thought that there was a 'high probability' that Moscow could
intervene militarily in the east of the country where Kiev forces are closing in
on pro-Russian separatists.

Jose Manuel Barroso, the European Commission President, rang President Putin
today to 'warn against any unilateral military actions in Ukraine, under any
pretext, including humanitarian.

The Kremlin said that Moscow would send help to largely Russian-speaking
eastern Ukraine.

UN agencies say that more than 1,100 people have been killed including government
forces, rebels and civilians in the four months since rebels seized territory in the east
and Kiev launched its crackdown.


Ukrainian President Petro Poroshenko said that he was in favour of an aid mission as
long as it was an international effort under the aegis of the Red Cross and involving the
European Union as well as Russia.


Mr Poroshenko said US President Barack Obama had also backed the international plan
when they spoke on the telephone today.

The International Committee of the Red Cross had no immediate comment, although last
weekend it issued a statement acknowledging the receipt of an offer from Russian Foreign
Minister Sergei Lavrov about aid convoys.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2722321/Russia-told-Europe-not-send-aid-convoy-rebels-Ukraine-Kremlin-accused-massing-45-000-troops-border.html#ixzz3AAW4TRtZ
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook


================================================



Lugansk Under Siege: Over 250,000 civilians struggle without water and power

new Tuesday 12th August 2014 at 09:26 By david-icke





Published on 11 Aug 2014


250,000 people have been left without water, electricity and communications for
over a week in the eastern Ukrainian city of Lugansk. The town is subject to siege
conditions and under heavy bombardment - READ MORE http://on.rt.com/60v0lp

[jackovesk]

http://www.democratic-republicans.us/images/kerry-cassidy-project-camelot.jpg http://b.vimeocdn.com/ts/122/886/12288641_200.jpg

FLIGHT 17 SHOT DOWN BY RUSSIANS

10 Aug 2014 11:55 | Written by Kerry Cassidy

This past weekend I interviewed Simon Parkes at the Bases Conference in Marlborough, England. This was a fascinating coversation and I will be posting it in the next few days.

One important piece of information came forward from this interview which is that Flight MH 17 was shot down by a Russian plane because it was headed to a Russian city being armed as a biowarfare dirty bomb. The flight did contain bodies that had long been dead from Flight MH 370 and it was aimed and outfitted by the Mossad. Sadly the passengers were killed as 'collateral damage' in an effort to create a 911 in Russia with the intention of sparking WWIII.

This information comes from a man who has high level contacts in the British government. Simon Parkes, a British city councillor, comes from an illuminati bloodline. He was trained in occult Magic from a young age by his Grandfather, a British Diplomat and Freemason who worked for MI6 and his mother, who worked for MI5. More to come...

http://projectcamelotportal.com/blog/31-kerrys-blog/2229-flight-17-shot-down-by-russians

PS - Me thinks this is total :bs: :bad:

[SilentFeathers]

One important piece of information came forward from this interview which is that Flight MH 17 was shot down by a Russian plane because it was headed to a Russian city being armed as a biowarfare dirty bomb. The flight did contain bodies that had long been dead from Flight MH 370 and it was aimed and outfitted by the Mossad. Sadly the passengers were killed as 'collateral damage' in an effort to create a 911 in Russia with the intention of sparking WWIII.

PS - Me thinks this is total :bs: :bad:

I think this is a bit far-fetched too....

I do find it odd though some mentioned some bodies seemed dead for days, but we haven't seen the cargo list and there may have been some dead bodies being transferred for burial in another country, or cadaver bodies for aids research, etc.

Dead bodies from MH370 in MH17?????????? dah, makes no sense to me. MH370 is probably at the bottom of the ocean somewhere IMO.....(and will likely be found soon).

[Hervé]

Well, I'll keep my $$ to buy ice cream, rather.

[jerry]

Malaysian press charges Ukraine government shot down MH 17

http://axisoflogic.com/artman/publish/Article_67273.shtml

[Cidersomerset]

Ron Paul on MH17 downing and the crisis in Ukraine

PbEyJl_hpVI

Published on 12 Aug 2014


Libertarian politician and former US Rep. Ron Paul (R.-Texas) told RT
that he believes the US has crucial information the downing of Malaysia
Airlines flight 17 that it is not releasing to the public. In an interview with
RT’s Ameera David, Paul expressed his frustrations with the politicization
of the tragedy and the “propaganda” coming from Western media, while
also questioning why the government has backed off some of its earlier claims.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


RAW: 280 trucks with Russian humanitarian aid depart to E. Ukraine

EWsg-T7Ao5U

Published on 11 Aug 2014


Trucks carrying food, medication, and drinking water have been sent towards
the border with Ukraine by Russia’s Emergencies Ministry on Tuesday morning.
READ MORE http://on.rt.com/7jfnjk



-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Russia sends humanitarian aid to Lugansk after Red Cross approval

1X_42KWokWg

Published on 12 Aug 2014


A convoy of aid from Russia is on its way to Lugansk, a week after local
officials declared a humanitarian disaster in the east Ukraine city. RT's Maria
Finoshina is on the Russian-Ukrainian border. READ MORE http://on.rt.com/7jfnjk

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Food Fight: ‘Latin America will not bow to EU pressure, will tighten ties with Russia’

bBCg4vQP4wE

Published on 12 Aug 2014


The EU is reportedly planning to put pressure on Latin America to stop it from
boosting its agricultural exports to Russia. In response to sanctions, Moscow
imposed a food embargo on a range of EU products, and countries like Brazil
and Chile are being canvassed to step in and fill the gap. For more on this RT
is joined by Robert Oulds, head of the Bruges Group think-tank.

[Billy]

I did not merge this info with this thread. but will share it here.

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?73807-Malaysian-press-charges-Ukraine-government-shot-down-MH-17


Malaysian press charges Ukraine government shot down MH 17

http://axisoflogic.com/artman/publish/Article_67273.shtml

By Alex Lantier, OpEd News
OEN
Monday, Aug 11, 2014

An August 7 article in the New Straits Times, Malaysia's flagship English-language newspaper, charged the US- and European-backed Ukrainian regime in Kiev with shooting down Malaysian Airlines flight MH 17 in east Ukraine last month. Given the tightly controlled character of the Malaysian media, it appears that the accusation that Kiev shot down MH17 has the imprimatur of the Malaysian state.

The US and European media have buried this remarkable report, which refutes the wave of allegations planted by the CIA in international media claiming that Russian president Vladimir Putin was responsible for the destruction of MH17, without presenting any evidence to back up this charge.

The New Straits Times article, titled "US analysts conclude MH17 downed by aircraft," lays out evidence that Ukrainian fighter aircraft attacked the jetliner with first a missile, then with bursts of 30-millimeter machine gun fire from both sides of MH17. The Russian army has already presented detailed radar and satellite data showing a Ukrainian Sukhoi-25 fighter jet tailing MH17 shortly before the jetliner crashed. The Kiev regime denied that its fighters were airborne in the area, however.

The New Straits Times article began, "Intelligence analysts in the United States have already concluded that Malaysia flight MH17 was shot down by an air-to-air missile, and that the Ukrainian government had had something to do with it. This corroborates an emerging theory postulated by local investigators that the Boeing 777-200 was crippled by an air-to-air missile and finished off with cannon fire from a jet that had been shadowing it as it plummeted to earth."

It cited "experts who had said that the photographs of the blast fragmentation patterns on the fuselage of the airliner showed two distinct shapes -- the shredding pattern associated with a warhead packed with 'flechettes,' and the more uniform, round-type penetration holes consistent with that of cannon rounds."

The New Straits Times cited several sources to substantiate its position. One was testimony by a Canadian-Ukrainian monitor for the Organization for Security and Cooperation in Europe (OSCE), Michael Bociurkiw -- one of the first investigators to arrive at the crash site. Speaking to the Canadian Broadcasting Corporation on July 29, Bociurkiw said: "There have been two or three pieces of fuselage that have been really pockmarked with what almost looks like machine gun fire; very, very strong machine gun fire."

Another source the paper cited was an article, "Flight 17 Shoot-Down Scenario Shifts," by former Associated Press reporter Robert Parry, who now writes for the ConsortiumNews.com web site. Given the lack of any evidence supporting US charges that pro-Russian forces shot MH17 down with a Buk anti-aircraft missile, Parry said, "some US intelligence analysts have concluded that the rebels and Russia were likely not at fault, and that it appears Ukrainian government forces were to blame, according to a source briefed on these findings."

Perry indicated that sections of the US intelligence apparatus have concluded that US secretary of state John Kerry's claims that pro-Russian forces shot down the plane are lies.

"Only three days after the crash, Secretary of State Kerry did the rounds of the Sunday talk shows making what he deemed an 'extraordinary circumstantial' case supposedly proving that the rebels carried out the shoot-down with missiles provided by Russia. He acknowledged that the US government was 'not drawing the final conclusion here, but there is a lot that points at the need for Russia to be responsible,'" Perry wrote. "By then, I was already being told that the US intelligence community lacked any satellite imagery supporting Kerry's allegations, and that the only Buk missile system in that part of Ukraine appeared to be under the control of the Ukrainian military."

Finally, the New Straits Times and Parry both cited retired Lufthansa pilot Peter Haisenko, who has pointed to photographic evidence of MH17 wreckage suggesting that cockpit panels were raked with heavy machine gun fire from both the port and starboard sides. "Nobody before Haisenko had noticed that the projectiles had ripped through the panel from both its left side and its right side. This is what rules out any ground-fired missile," Parry wrote.

The New Straits Times report constitutes a powerful accusation not only against the Ukrainian government, but against Washington, Berlin, and their European allies. They installed the Kiev regime through a fascist-led putsch in February. They then deployed a series of intelligence operatives and Blackwater mercenaries who are closely coordinating the various fascist militias and National Guard units fighting for Kiev on the ground in east Ukraine, where MH17 was shot down.

These forces now stand accused not only of stoking an explosive political and military confrontation with Russia on its border with Ukraine over the MH17 crash, which threatens to erupt into nuclear war, but of provoking the confrontation through the cold-blooded murder of 298 people aboard MH17.

These charges from Malaysia are all the more significant, in that Malaysia is not a strategic adversary of the United States. Unlike Russia, which already presented evidence suggesting Ukrainian involvement in the crash, Malaysia has no political motive for trying to discredit the US, the European powers, or their puppet regime in Kiev.

While it has not aligned itself as openly as the Philippines or Vietnam with the US "pivot to Asia" aimed at isolating China, Malaysia has in fact pushed for deployments of its forces in the South China Sea to contest Chinese influence in the area, in line with the agenda of the US "pivot."

Indeed, the New Straits Times and its sources are basing themselves on sections of US intelligence that, disgruntled by the complete lack of evidence to back up US charges against Putin and fearing catastrophic military escalation, have criticized Washington's handling of the crisis (see: "Former US intelligence personnel challenge Obama to present evidence of Russian complicity in MH17 crash").

These events also constitute yet another indictment of the Western media, who have completely blacked out the investigation of the crash of MH17 and the latest material in the New Straits Times. Instead, the elements in the CIA and their Ukrainian proxies driving the war in east Ukraine have been able to escalate the confrontation with Russia and demonize Putin, without any of their unsubstantiated accusations of Russian involvement in the MH17 crash being challenged.

Kiev regime officials are continuing to stonewall the investigation, refusing Malaysian requests for information about MH17, such as the record of communication between the doomed plane and air traffic controllers in Kiev.

Read more here.
http://axisoflogic.com/artman/publish/Article_67273.shtml

[Hervé]

Still no 30mm nor 20mm gun holes here either:


http://s27.postimg.org/43iqqc4cz/wiper.jpg
Plane's upper nose holding the port windshield wiper stem.

http://ppcdn.500px.org/29768265/c3bc254c87f78cf7595669207a2a10887ce8f777/4.jpg




Compared to:

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-JJFtAfHwVw8/U9JhYnurMlI/AAAAAAAAYbc/ZmECQO4wc68/w958-h719-no/AA773-FlightDeck_Port+aft+window.jpg
From: https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-JJFtAfHwVw8/U9JhYnurMlI/AAAAAAAAYbc/ZmECQO4wc68/w958-h719-no/AA773-FlightDeck_Port+aft+window.jpg

[Cidersomerset]

'No physical interference:' EU denies pressure on Latin America over trade with Russia

AtHgYKHobOA

Published on 13 Aug 2014


EU has reportedly been pressuring Latin American countries not to up their
trade with Russia, after Moscow's food embargo came into force. RT spoke
with the spokesperson of the European Commission, Peter Stano.

RT LIVE http://rt.com/on-air

=============================================

'Senseless Violence': Sixty killed/injured everyday in E.Ukraine - UN Human Rights Council

cpigBmHOUcg

Published on 14 Aug 2014


Many civilians are feared dead after Kiev authorities resumed shelling of eastern districts
in Lugansk, the city council reported - READ MORE http://on.rt.com/n5ge2n

RT LIVE http://rt.com/on-air

===========================================

‘It is not about fear of death’ RT follows refugees from E. Ukraine to Russia


yarX5XZJbZI

Published on 13 Aug 2014


Tens of thousands of people across eastern Ukraine have been forced to flee
the violence in recent months, most of them to Russia. Maria Finoshina followed
some of the refugees as they left their homes in the city of Lugansk.

RT LIVE http://rt.com/on-air


====================================================

http://static.bbci.co.uk/frameworks/barlesque/2.64.0/desktop/3.5/img/blq-blocks_grey_alpha.png


14 August 2014 Last updated at 17:38

Ukraine crisis: Rebel military chief Strelkov 'quits'


http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/76943000/jpg/_76943340_9oodk3zc.jpg

Rebel sources denied reports that Strelkov had been injured


The military leader of pro-Russian rebels in the eastern Ukrainian city of Donetsk,
Igor Girkin - known as Strelkov - has resigned.

Alexander Borodai, the former PM of the self-declared Donetsk People's Republic,
confirmed the news but denied reports Mr Strelkov had been wounded.

There has been heavy shelling both in Donetsk and Luhansk as Ukrainian forces
battle the separatists.

The news came with a disputed Russian aid convoy stationed near the border.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-28792966

===================================================


As Russian Aid Trucks Near Ukraine, Mass Media Describe It As An ACT OF WAR!

new Thursday 14th August 2014 at 18:21 By david-icke

pV4Pp05eW6E


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


RAW: Fierce tank battle rages near Ukraine-Russia border crossing

oDDkBrkkpI8

Published on 14 Aug 2014


Anti-Kiev rebels seized control of a checkpoint south of Marinovka, near the border
with Russia, following a ferocious battle with Kiev forces in recent days. The anti-
Kiev forces deployed a sniper and anti-tank team, among other units, to take the
checkpoint. The bodies of two Ukrainian soldiers were identified, as well as four
tanks and one APC destroyed.

FOLLOW LIVE TIMELINE http://rt.com/news/eastern-ukraine-ar...

[Debra]

One important piece of information came forward from this interview which is that Flight MH 17 was shot down by a Russian plane because it was headed to a Russian city being armed as a biowarfare dirty bomb. The flight did contain bodies that had long been dead from Flight MH 370 and it was aimed and outfitted by the Mossad. Sadly the passengers were killed as 'collateral damage' in an effort to create a 911 in Russia with the intention of sparking WWIII.

PS - Me thinks this is total :bs: :bad:

I think this is a bit far-fetched too....

I do find it odd though some mentioned some bodies seemed dead for days, but we haven't seen the cargo list and there may have been some dead bodies being transferred for burial in another country, or cadaver bodies for aids research, etc.

Dead bodies from MH370 in MH17?????????? dah, makes no sense to me. MH370 is probably at the bottom of the ocean somewhere IMO.....(and will likely be found soon).


I've been meaning to say something here … about the claim of bodies being dead already for days. A very good friend of mine actually knew someone on that flight, MH17, so I take it that alive people actually boarded the flight …

Maybe there were dead bodies in cargo …?

[avid]

A lot of posts ago - we discussed this. Bodies are repatriated to various countries en route. On normal flights. Every day. So 'deader-than-dead' cargo may be normal, or going to be 'gifted' samples for research for a scientific conference. I have seen them loading up coffins at the main terminal in Manchester to repatriate the dead, lots of coffins on overseas flight cargo on lots of international flights. A vile view, but this is what you observe on international departures lounges looking inwards to the core of the main hub. They are definitely repatriating lots of dead daily all over the world. This will happen all over the world - repatriation of the dead. Absolutely a normal procedure.

However - we must always question that which gives us grief and torment and there are many links to the truth of this tragedy elsewhere.

[onawah]

That claim about the flight containing some dead bodies was already circulating before the Simon/Kerry interview, though Simon confirmed that, and also said that some of the bodies showed signs of torture.
I don't think it was claimed that all the bodies had already been dead, so no doubt they were in a different part of the plane than the living passengers.

[avid]

...............

[Hervé]

Radar SPOOFING – Spooky Stuff (http://www.veteranstoday.com/2014/08/15/spoofing-spooky-stuff/)


http://www.veteranstoday.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/israel-320x220.jpg (http://www.veteranstoday.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/israel.jpg)


“The government and media have always known radar imagines (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imagines) are always faked…”


—
By Gene “Chip” Tatum

—
Editor’s note: I asked Chip to do this piece based on his background with the technologies and how vital it is for the public to know that all information about plane locations, altitudes, speed or even plane type have been faked though EW (Electronic Warfare) modules for years. Thus, the radar tracking from 9/11… faked… the SU25s tracking MH17… faked as well, wrong altitude, wrong planes, maybe not even Ukrainian or Russian at all. An Israeli F15 taking off from Azerbaijan was “there.” (http://www.veteranstoday.com/2014/08/06/315291/) Did it magically turn into two SU 25′s? We can prove it could have. What Chip proves is that efforts to sell government conspiracy theories based on faked radar is going to have to come to an end. We are busting them now.g
—
In 2010, Israeli fighters bombed a suspected nuclear materials site in Syria. Here’s the million dollar question: How did they do it without tipping off Syria’s Russian-bought air defense radar? Israel hacked the network.

So lets consider what means could have been used and even more, how technology has advanced in the last four years.

DARPA and the U.S. Air Force are prime users and developers of radar systems, using them for early warning during the Cold War, when the Air Force had both airborne and ground based radar systems deployed around the world to guard against and detect Soviet aircraft. Radars were and continue to be one of the most important pieces of equipment on modern aircraft. The faster and farther away an adversary can be identified and accurately tracked helps to give the pilot an edge that can be vital during combat. Electronic warfare techniques (EW and ECM) and technology have been in use since World War II and go hand in glove with radar systems. These technologies are often used to jam, counter jam, spoof, or confuse enemy radar operators and weapon systems, allowing the aircraft to accomplish their mission.

But what exactly is Radar? And how does it work? And better yet, how can you Spoof or Fool it?

[...]

But lets get back to the 2010 Raid on Syria by Israel. The system used for the raid is called Suter (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suter_%28computer_program%29).

U.S. aerospace industry and retired military officials indicated today that a technology like the U.S.-developed “Suter” airborne network attack system developed by BAE Systems and integrated into U.S. unmanned aircraft by L-3 Communications was used by the Israelis. The system has been used operationally in Iraq and Afghanistan.

The technology allows users to invade communications networks, see what enemy sensors see, and even take over as systems administrator so sensors can be manipulated into positions so that approaching aircraft can’t be seen or seen in false positions ans false sizes. The process involves locating enemy emitters with great precision and then directing data streams into them that can include false targets and misleading messages algorithms that allow a number of activities including control.

BAE and the Suter system developed and used in 2010 have made major advances in abilities. Not only can the system Spoof location, bearing, heading, and target size, but it can also project misleading information on aircraft in the vicinity.

For example, let’s say for sake of discussion that a fighter jet was flying missions in the Ukraine against Russian Separatists. Separatists missile defense systems would readily detect such flights, identify it as a foe via the ground radar systems, and lock on in preparation for launch. The Suter software, however, could forward project data showing their aircraft in another location. The launched missile would then seek a hard target after launch seeking any hard target in the area. If that happened to be a commercial airliner, the missile would automatically lock on and destroy that target. If it could not acquire a target, it would search until fuel supply runs out and fall to earth.

Today’s electronic battlefield is more complex and deadly than ever-particularly when it comes to electronic surveillance and electronic warfare.


Full article: http://www.veteranstoday.com/2014/08/15/spoofing-spooky-stuff/

[Hervé]

The end of the "30mm gun theory":


rolan, August 12, 2014 - 8:09 pm (http://www.veteranstoday.com/2014/08/06/315291/comment-page-1/#comment-554647)
The cannon theory is UNTENABLE/UNSUSTAINABLE.


The 777 having flown at 250 m/s means that every point A, B, or C of the aircraft shifted 250 m every second (A+250m, B+250m, C+250, ect.) WHILE the cannon was able to *only* fire rounds in the order of the tens per second. (Say 50 rounds/s = 3000/min.)


Admitting one burst of a fraction of second with the cannon, every next round would have hit in the order of the meters aside, next to the preceding hit, the 777 flying at 250 m/s. (250 m/s) / (50 rounds/s) = 2.5 m/round


Shooting at the 777 at an angle changes little (see trigonometry), the order of spacing of the rounds hitting the 777 would be still in the orders of the meters.


Is what observation of the cockpit and of the reaming body of the aircraft confirm?! **NO**


(And *finishing* the 777 off with a cannon makes VERY little sense JIC, aside NOT solving the initial problem anyway.)

[Ravenlocke]

I just came across this news bit :

"Mystery as £20,000 cash is withdrawn from accounts of four passengers who went down with doomed Flight MH370 "

More than £20,000 has been stolen from four passengers aboard the doomed MH370 flight.
Five months after the Malaysia Airlines flight went missing, mysterious withdrawals totaling 111,000 RM (£20,916) have been recorded, reports claim.
A bank in Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia, reported the apparent discrepancies in their accounts on July 18, before lodging a police complaint, Assistant Commissioner to the crime investigation department Izany Abdul Ghany revealed


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2725142/Mystery-20-000-cash-withdrawn-accounts-four-passengers-went-doomed-Flight-MH370.html#ixzz3AUqSboPP

[Operator]

The end of the "30mm gun theory":


rolan, August 12, 2014 - 8:09 pm (http://www.veteranstoday.com/2014/08/06/315291/comment-page-1/#comment-554647)
The cannon theory is UNTENABLE/UNSUSTAINABLE.


The 777 having flown at 250 m/s means that every point A, B, or C of the aircraft shifted 250 m every second (A+250m, B+250m, C+250, ect.) WHILE the cannon was able to *only* fire rounds in the order of the tens per second. (Say 50 rounds/s = 3000/min.)


Admitting one burst of a fraction of second with the cannon, every next round would have hit in the order of the meters aside, next to the preceding hit, the 777 flying at 250 m/s. (250 m/s) / (50 rounds/s) = 2.5 m/round


Shooting at the 777 at an angle changes little (see trigonometry), the order of spacing of the rounds hitting the 777 would be still in the orders of the meters.


Is what observation of the cockpit and of the reaming body of the aircraft confirm?! **NO**


(And *finishing* the 777 off with a cannon makes VERY little sense JIC, aside NOT solving the initial problem anyway.)

Not to debate that issue at all but ...

I think the above is not entirely correct ... the sketched scenario only applies if the cannon had a ground speed of 0 m/s.
But if it was fired from a fighter jet the ground speed could have been more or less equal to the airliner.

Maybe I've misinterpreted the sketched scenario ... also possible :o

[Flash]

A lot of posts ago - we discussed this. Bodies are repatriated to various countries en route. On normal flights. Every day. So 'deader-than-dead' cargo may be normal, or going to be 'gifted' samples for research for a scientific conference. I have seen them loading up coffins at the main terminal in Manchester to repatriate the dead, lots of coffins on overseas flight cargo on lots of international flights. A vile view, but this is what you observe on international departures lounges looking inwards to the core of the main hub. They are definitely repatriating lots of dead daily all over the world. This will happen all over the world - repatriation of the dead. Absolutely a normal procedure.

However - we must always question that which gives us grief and torment and there are many links to the truth of this tragedy elsewhere.

yes, i worked abroad for a travel agency aons ago (lol) and when some tourist from the agency would die, we would have to find a way to put them in ice and fridge coffins and have them repatriated - Canada was asking the bodies to be frozen (once dead you are treated as a piece of imported meat and meat contamination has to be avoided), in the airplanes going back.

so, yes, dead bodies in the cargo area is usual procédures.

[Cidersomerset]

A couple of articles on David Ickes site today.



M17 and MH370......The Vanishing Point.....


http://www.davidicke.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/Malaysia-Airlines-Missing-Flight-MH370-Could-Be-in-Gulf-of-Thailand.jpg





THE ROVING EYE
Vanishing point …
By Pepe Escobar

First, passenger airliner MH370 vanished from Planet Earth. Then MH370
vanished from the news cycle. First, MH17 was shot down by "Putin's missile"
- as Planet Earth was told. Then MH17 vanished from the news cycle.

Where's Baudrillard when we need him? Had he been alive, the dervish of
simulacra would have already deconstructed these two Malaysian planes as
mirror images; from absolute vanishing to maximum exposure, then
vanished again. They might as well have

been abducted - and shot - by aliens. Now you seem them, now you don't.

Black boxes, data recorders - everything MH17 is now floating in a black
void. The British are taking forever to analyze the data - and if they have
already done so, they are not talking. It's as if they were singing, I see a
black box / and I want it painted black … void.

The Pentagon, with 20-20 vision over Ukraine, knows what happened.
Russian intelligence not only knows what happened but offered a
tantalizing glimpse of it in an official presentation, dismissed by the
"West". The best technical analyses point not to "Putin's missile" - a
BUK - but to a combination of R-60 air-to-air missile and the
auto-cannon of an Su-25.

A reader led me to this fair assessment by former USAF and Boeing
engineer Raymond Blohm: "With proper vectoring, a Su-25 need not
be quite as fast as a Boeing 777 in cruise. It just has to get to a
missile-firing position. Since the 777 was not maneuvering, it would
be simple to pre-calculate when to get in a certain spot in the sky
below the 777. From there, it's the missile that has the speed and
altitude capability to hit the 777. (The R-60 is a very capable missile.)
After the missile takes out an engine, both the 777's max speed and its
max altitude are well within the Su-25 fighter's speed & altitude
capabilities. Then, the Su-25 can show off its cannon power."

Follow the engine wreckage. Follow the cockpit wreckage. Follow the
motive. One cannot even imagine the tectonic geopolitical plates clashing
were the Kiev regime to be deemed responsible. It would be the vanishing
point for the whole - warped - notion of the Empire of Chaos's
"indispensable" exceptionalism.

So as MH370 totally vanished, the MH17 story must also totally vanish.
The Dutch and the British might eventually come out and hold a
high-profile press conference telling the world what His Master's Voice
finally redacted. Still, one may count on certified, residual outrage, if not
puzzlement, by a large number of grieving Dutch families. And one may
count on certified outrage by Malaysia as a nation. As in Why Us? And
not once but twice?

Moscow, after deconstructing the "logic" of the ongoing Russia/Putin
hysterical demonization, knows that whatever they say will be invalidated
by the Orwellian Thought Police. Yet as much as His Master's Voice controls
what the Dutch and the British might eventually reveal, Russia can
counterpunch by leaking the crucial scenario to Malaysia. And Malaysia
will talk.

MH370 vanished as in a video game. MH17 was hit as in a video game.
Now their respective narratives are being vanished. It's as if we are living
a tiny rehearsal of the black hypothesis of post-history.

Postmodernist star Jean-Francois Lyotard and later Flemish thinker Lieven
De Cauter were the rarified few who dabbled in studying the black hypothesis.
The black hypothesis is the ultimate dystopia - playing out in the cosmological
time of the death of the sun, something like 4.5 billion years away. Basically
this is about techno-science surviving the death of the sun and the death of
humanity itself.

So MH370 may have vanished into an antechamber of the black hypothesis.
But MH17 is much more prosaic; it could have been just a false flag gone wrong.
Thus, under Empire of Chaos's rules, it must also vanish. The question is whether
global civil society will accept it - or has already entered its own vanishing point.

Pepe Escobar is the author of Globalistan: How the Globalized World is Dissolving
into Liquid War (Nimble Books, 2007), Red Zone Blues: a snapshot of Baghdad
during the surge (Nimble Books, 2007), and Obama does Globalistan (Nimble Books, 2009).

He may be reached at pepeasia@yahoo.com.




http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Central_Asia/CEN-02-150814.html

http://www.davidicke.com/headlines/


==========================================


MH17: First crash report ‘in weeks’: Dutch investigators

11 August 2014 @ 9:30 PM



http://www.davidicke.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/get-attachment-2821-587x396.jpg


MH17: First crash report ‘in weeks’: Dutch investigators

11 August 2014 @ 9:30 PM


THE HAGUE: Dutch air crash investigators said Monday they expect
to release an initial report into what brought down flight MH17 over
Ukraine with the loss of 298 lives “in a few weeks.”

There were 193 Dutch citizens aboard the Malaysia Airlines 777 when
it exploded over strife-torn eastern Ukraine on July 17 and the Dutch
are in charge of victim identification and probing the cause of the disaster.

The West has accused pro-Russian separatists of shooting down the
jet with a missile supplied by Russia. Moscow has accused Ukraine
of shooting it down.

“We have sufficient information to compile a preliminary report,” said
Wim van der Weegen, spokesman for the Dutch Safety Board (OVV).

“We hope that it will be ready in a few weeks,” he told AFP, announcing
that international crash investigators had now returned to the Netherlands
without visiting the crash site.

“In order to analyse the information... it’s not essential to remain in Ukraine,
” Van der Weegen told AFP, saying the team will now be based in The Hague.

Ukranian air crash experts, who are taking part in the international probe,
had been at the crash site shortly after the crash, before the Dutch were
tasked with leading the investigation, Van der Weegen said.

The deteriorating security situation prevented crash investigators under the
OVV’s leadership from reaching the remote site, although Dutch, Australian
and Malaysian forensic experts did reach the area to look for body parts and
personal belongings.

“Since we’ve taken over the investigation, there has been no new opportunity
to get to the crash site,” Van der Weegen said.

The OVV said in a statement that it was only investigating what brought down
flight MH17, not who was responsible.

Dutch Prime Minister Mark Rutte last Wednesday called off the search for body
parts as a result of escalating fighting between Kiev and pro-Russian separatists.

Van der Weegen said enough sources were available including cockpit voice
recorders, flight data recorders (black boxes), radar details and information
from air traffic controllers.

“We have enough information (for a preliminary report), but we would like
to return to the crash site to verify some of our findings and get additional
information,” he said. -AFP


http://assets.nst.com.my/images/articles/reports11.transformed.jpg




http://www.nst.com.my/node/22219

http://www.davidicke.com/headlines/

[Slorri]

The silence is deafening MH17 Black Box Results. No data ever released

qgwdbQ9wgu4

[Operator]

The silence is deafening MH17 Black Box Results. No data ever released

qgwdbQ9wgu4

This is what I expected ... the story will die out as a candle in the night. I hoped I was wrong ...
But when they start yelling they will not rest until the perpetrators are caught followed by so
many indications that evidence is silently spirited away you know how it ends. :mmph:

[Hervé]

Indeed, all channels silent...

Cover-Up? Why Have the Media and Obama Administration Gone Silent on MH17? (http://www.globalresearch.ca/cover-up-why-have-the-media-and-obama-administration-gone-silent-on-mh17/5396372)

By Niles Williamson (http://www.globalresearch.ca/author/niles-williamson), Global Research, August 18, 2014



http://www.globalresearch.ca/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/Malaysia-MH171.jpg


The deafening silence of the US media and government about the investigation into the downing of Malaysian Airlines Flight MH17 one month ago reeks of a cover-up.

In the hours and days immediately after the crash, without a single shred of evidence, US officials alleged that the passenger jet was shot down by an SA-11 ground-to-air missile fired from pro-Russian separatist-held territory in eastern Ukraine. They launched a political campaign to obtain harsh economic sanctions against Russia and strengthen NATO’s military posture in Eastern Europe.

Picking up on the scent, the CIA attack dogs in the US and European media blamed the crash squarely on Russian President Vladimir Putin. The cover of the July 28 print edition of German news magazine Der Spiegel showed the images of MH17 victims surrounding bold red text reading “Stoppt Putin Jetzt!” (Stop Putin Now!). A July 26 editorial in the Economist declared Putin to be the author of MH17’s destruction, while the magazine ghoulishly superimposed Putin’s face over a spider web on its front cover, denouncing Putin’s “web of lies.”

Anyone comparing the media’s demonization of Putin with their treatment of Saddam Hussein or Muammar Gaddafi had to conclude that Washington was launching a campaign for regime change in Russia like those it carried out in Libya and Iraq—this time, recklessly pushing the United States towards war with a nuclear-armed power, Russia.

Having built up the crash into a casus belli against Russia, however, the US media suddenly dropped the matter completely. The New York Times has not found it fit to print a word on the MH17 crash since August 7.


[...]


Full article: http://www.globalresearch.ca/cover-up-why-have-the-media-and-obama-administration-gone-silent-on-mh17/5396372

**********************************************************

Why would that be?

Simply because all the False Flag objectives were achieved, whether political, social engineering or $$...

Putin, Russia and pro-Russians instantly demonized;

Economical sanctions applied with expected retaliations implemented giving the US and allies a breather and plunging Europe into a nightmare while re-enforcing the BRICS ties and exchanges...

... leaving Ukraine's fascists and mercenaries alone to keep doing their business as usual while Ukrainian army patriots have no other options than defect to Russia since the $$ in the form of pay and supplies are flowing to the mercenaries.

Fait accomplit!

[Cidersomerset]

Boeing-777 was downed by Ukrainian MiG-29, Romanian expert says

Thursday 21st August 2014 at 11:28 By david-icke


http://www.davidicke.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/get-attachment-4032-587x386.jpg


‘Romanian military expert, pilot and former deputy commander of Otopeni military
airport, Valentin Vasilescu, presented his version of the tragedy of the Malaysian
Boeing in the sky over Ukraine.

According to the expert, the plane was shot down by Ukrainian MiG-29, possibly
piloted by Polish pilot.

Valentin Vasilescu refutes the theory, according to which the plane had been
shot down by surface-to-air missile, which, according to American and Ukrainian
versions, the militia launched from Buk-1M mobile unit.’

Read more: Boeing-777 was downed by Ukrainian MiG-29, Romanian expert says



http://themillenniumreport.com/2014/08/boeing-777-was-downed-by-ukrainian-mig-29-romanian-expert-says/


The Romanian expert noted that Polish military pilots are best trained in
south-eastern Europe and have many hours of flight time (180-200 hours
per year). “They are familiar with the airspace of Ukraine, they took part
in all exercises that Ukrainian Air Force has organized in the last four or
five years. Polish Air Force has 31 MiG-29 jets, 16 of which were
re-equipped by specialists of Israel Aerospace Industries. The planes
received new avionics (multifunction color displays (MFCD), GPS-guided
weapons, data-link support, UHF / VHF RT-8200 Rockwell Collins radio
station and MDP video technology, etc.). Polish pilots were trained by
Israeli instructors who have extensive experience in destroying a variety
of air targets, concluded Valentin Vasilescu.

Lyuba Lulko
Pravda.Ru

Read the original in Russian

[Cidersomerset]

‘Kiev, US propaganda war leave little motive to let Russian aid in’

lzdYiXT-UWQ

Published on 21 Aug 2014


A small part of trucks with Russian humanitarian aid has been
cleared to cross the border. Following about a week of delay,
Russian aid convoy may set off on Friday for its final
destination - Ukraine’s Lugansk region. RT talks to Former
advisor to the US-Russia Bilateral Presidential Commission
at the State Department, James W. Carden.


=========================================

"Incoming!" petrified locals tell RT 'there's nowhere to go" as Lugansk is bombed

_kVobIv-QVM

Published on 21 Aug 2014


The civilian death toll is rising in Ukraine's bloody war. At
least 52 civilians were reported killed in the last 48 hours.
RT’s Maria Finoshina returns to Lugansk, a near-deserted
city under constant shelling, and listened to those unable
to flee the frontline, and for whom the terror has become
too much.

[Cidersomerset]

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/sitelogos/logo_mol.gif

Kiev in U-turn over claim that 'Russian tanks, artillery and 1,200 fighters'
had been deployed in Eastern Ukraine as evidence fails to materialise

Ukrainian official claimed troops moved in just as the city was poised to fall
But they have since been forced to deny the allegation after strong rebuttal

If true it would have been tantamount to an invasion of Ukraine by Russia
Putin set to meet Ukrainian president Poroshenko in Belarus on Monday

By Will Stewart and Reuters and Associated Press and Damien Gayle for MailOnline

Published: 09:54, 20 August 2014 | Updated: 19:30, 20 August 2014



Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2729647/Tanks-artillery-1-200-fighters-march-east-Ukraine-Russia-days-Putin-set-meet-Ukrainian-president-peace-talks.html#ixzz3B6He4Flc
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook



http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2014/08/20/1408524554506_wps_17_epa04353068_A_local_woman.jpg
Tragic: A woman stands by the body of a dead man after a Ukrainian army mortar attack hit the city centre

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2729647/Tanks-artillery-1-200-fighters-march-east-Ukraine-Russia-days-Putin-set-meet-Ukrainian-president-peace-talks.html#ixzz3B6IXmjdO
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

[araucaria]

Maybe this silence is golden. People are not standing for this nonsense any more. We have come a long way since 911, which produced ten years of such terrific noise. The overall scenario being played out is not heading towards global disclosure and massive trials in The Hague. No disclosure is necessary because enough people are now aware of what is going on. And the Nuremberg trials were something of an anticlimax, just leading to the hanging of a few broken henchmen. What we are seeing is more like a well-loved but broken toy being put away in a cupboard before it is quietly thrown out.

Yesterday I read that the best ‘joke’ that the Edinburgh Festival Fringe could come up with was this: ‘I have just thrown out my hoover [vacuum cleaner]; it was just collecting dust’. If it is a joke you want, I think many on this forum could do better than that; but if you want a comment on what is going on, I think it is very apt. The machine has a kind of built-in obsolescence in the sense that when no longer working it continues to do what it was made for. The global clean-up operation, cleaning up financially, militarily etc., is still cleaning up, but in a very different way, before itself getting cleaned up.

This week has been the 70th anniversary of the liberation of Paris, and last night they aired the movie Paris brûle-t-il? (Is Paris Burning? http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0060814/) The title is a quote from Hitler on the phone to von Choltitz, the governor of Paris, asking if the explosives he ordered to be placed on all the bridges and major buildings have been detonated prior to evacuation. The movie ends with his question coming out of the phone dangling on the desk von Choltitz has just vacated after surrendering. My point is that the ultimate firework display of Paris burning never materialized, and that this came about through the deliberate delaying tactics of a leading Nazi.

Is the world burning? No sir, and it’s not going to happen. The hoover has been hoovered. There are still a little sniping going on, but already the streets are full of happy liberated people.

So that was a pretty good joke after all, as long as people see the really funny side :)

Edit: an hour after posting I found this:
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/aug/21/anger-as-eu-bans-most-powerful-vacuum-cleaners

[ThePythonicCow]

The end of the "30mm gun theory":


rolan, August 12, 2014 - 8:09 pm (http://www.veteranstoday.com/2014/08/06/315291/comment-page-1/#comment-554647)
The cannon theory is UNTENABLE/UNSUSTAINABLE.


The 777 having flown at 250 m/s means that every point A, B, or C of the aircraft shifted 250 m every second (A+250m, B+250m, C+250, ect.) WHILE the cannon was able to *only* fire rounds in the order of the tens per second. (Say 50 rounds/s = 3000/min.)
That doesn't seem right to me. The airspeed (250 m/s) of the aircraft doesn't matter in this calculation. What matters is the speed of the aircraft relative to the fighter firing the cannon. If they are both flying at the same speed, then the cannon fire holes could be closed spaced on the aircraft.

Oops - looks like my analysis is a week behind the times:

I think the above is not entirely correct ... the sketched scenario only applies if the cannon had a ground speed of 0 m/s.
But if it was fired from a fighter jet the ground speed could have been more or less equal to the airliner.

[Cidersomerset]

MH17 Downing: CIA Analysts Won’t Support White House Claims of Russian Culpability

new Saturday 23rd August 2014 at 09:44 By david-icke


http://www.davidicke.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/get-attachment-135-587x330.jpg


‘A central part of that campaign by Washington has been the effort to
blame the downing of Malaysian Flight 17, which killed all 298
passengers and crew, on Russia, or failing that, on pro-Russian
separatist rebels in eastern Ukraine. This campaign has used innuendo,
falsified evidence and, weirdly, spurious and sometimes absurd
“evidence” circulating in various social media — all of which which
people like Secretary of State John Kerry and president Obama
himself have tried to say “prove” that Russia, or at least a
Russian-provided high-altitude BUK anti-aircraft missile, was
responsible for the downing.’

But increasingly, critics, including analysts within the CIA, have
been throwing cold water on that theory. Suspiciously, the US,
which had a spy satellite located directly over the Malaysian
plane at the very time of the shoot-down, and which certainly
has detailed photographic images of exactly what happened,
has offered no a single photo to prove its contention that a
missile was fired from territory under rebel control.’




What's the truth behind Malaysian Flight 17 downing?: CIA
Analysts Won't Support White House Claims of Russian Culpability


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

War is a Crime.org....


By dlindorff - Posted on 22 August 2014

By Dave Lindorff


With the US continuing to push its submissive European “allies”
towards an ever more confrontational stance towards Russia
over the crisis in Ukraine (a crisis initially provoked by the US
itself through CIA and State Department actions that led to
the overthrow of Ukraine’s elected government), the world
appears headed towards a dangerous renewed Cold War
between the world’s two nuclear superpowers.


A central part of that campaign by Washington has been the
effort to blame the downing of Malaysian Flight 17, which
killed all 298 passengers and crew, on Russia, or failing that,
on pro-Russian separatist rebels in eastern Ukraine. This
campaign has used innuendo, falsified evidence and, weirdly,
spurious and sometimes absurd “evidence” circulating in
various social media -- all of which which people like
Secretary of State John Kerry and president Obama himself
have tried to say “prove” that Russia, or at least a
Russian-provided high-altitude BUK anti-aircraft missile,
was responsible for the downing.


But increasingly, critics, including analysts within the CIA,
have been throwing cold water on that theory. Suspiciously,
the US, which had a spy satellite located directly over the
Malaysian plane at the very time of the shoot-down, and
which certainly has detailed photographic images of exactly
what happened, has offered no a single photo to prove its
contention that a missile was fired from territory under
rebel control.


Meanwhile, there are multiple claims that the CIA -- and
perhaps the National Security Agency too -- have evidence
that it was Ukrainian forces, not separatists, who shot down
the plane, either using one of the several dozen BUK
launchers that they are known to possess themselves, or
by two Ukrainian attack fighters that were known to be tailing
the Malaysian commercial jet shoot it down with machine
gun fire and/or air-to-air missiles. Significantly, a Canadian
investigator with the international team sent to collect and
examine pieces of the crashed airliner, has said he saw holes
that appeared caused by heavy 30 mm machine-gun fire --the
type of ammunition used by the fighter jets -- in a section of
the front of the Boeing jet, as well as in both sides. Such holes
in the nose and both sides of the doomed plane could not have
all been caused by the projectiles released by a BUK missile,
which would have all hit the plane from one direction --
reportedly normally from a location beneath the plane.


A week ago, this reporter interviewed Ray McGovern, a former
CIA analyst with 27 years of experience at the agency, about
the Ukraine crisis, on ThisCantBeHappening!’s weekly radio show
that airs each Wednesday at 5 pm Eastern Time on the Progressive
Radio Network (PRN.fm). McGovern says on that program that
sources he knows who are still at the CIA say that the agency
has refused to back the US claim that separatists or Russia
were behind the shoot-down of Flight 17.



Read more: MH17 Downing: CIA Analysts Won’t Support White House Claims of Russian Culpability

http://warisacrime.org/content/whats-truth-behind-malaysian-flight-17-downing-cia-analysts-wont-support-white-house-claims-

[Cidersomerset]

MH-17 ‘Investigation’: Secret August 8th Agreement Seeps Out

new Sunday 24th August 2014 at 11:15 By david-icke


http://www.davidicke.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/get-attachment-4511-587x306.jpg


‘Regarding what caused the downing of the Malaysian airliner MH-17 in Ukraine on
July 17th, the Ukrainian news agency UNIAN, reported in a brief Russian-language
news story on August 12th, that four days earlier (August 8th) a representative of
that nation’s Prosecutor General office, Yuri Boychenko, had said that (as auto-
translated by google), “the results [of the investigation] will be announced upon
completion of the investigation and with the consent of all the parties who signed
the corresponding agreement.”

This UNIAN report said that, “As part of the four-party agreement signed on August
8 between Ukraine, the Netherlands, Belgium and Australia [all of which nations are
allies of the United States and are cooperating with its new Cold War against
Russia], information on the investigation into the disaster Malaysian ‘Boeing-777’
will not be disclosed.”’

Read more: MH-17 ‘Investigation’: Secret August 8th Agreement Seeps Out




http://rinf.com/alt-news/editorials/mh-17-investigation-secret-august-8th-agreement-seeps/

[giovonni]

The Corbett Report

"When Malaysia Airlines Flight 17 went down on July 17, 2014, we were immediately inundated with base propaganda trying to convince us that the shootdown could be traced back to the Kremlin. But what was this rush to judgement based on? What have we learned about the crash since then? Why has MH17 completely disappeared from the news cycle? And who really stood to benefit from the disaster? Find out the answers to these questions and more in this week's edition of The Corbett Report."

Show notes and MP3: http://www.corbettreport.com/?p=11947

Published on Aug 26, 2014


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gWlAARb0fN4

[Tyy1907]

Such a good point ie dissappeared from the news. A mission gone wrong? Putin prevented a biological catastrophe like Simon Parkes claims?

¤=[Post Update]=¤

Clicked on the video "An error occured"
Ha ha right.

[Cidersomerset]

Giovanni posted this earlier, some good points mulled over
many already discussed on this thread. There is always money
involved and he has some interesting points about Royal
Dutch Shell and there involvement in the area. Also points
out Israel started its assault on Gaza within hours of the plane
downing, which did take some of the initial focus off that slaughter,
plus other views brought up......

=============================================

From James Corbett ~ MH17 And Plane Crashes Of Convenience


gWlAARb0fN4


From The Corbett Report

"When Malaysia Airlines Flight 17 went down on July 17, 2014, we were
immediately inundated with base propaganda trying to convince us that
the shootdown could be traced back to the Kremlin. But what was this
rush to judgement based on? What have we learned about the crash
since then? Why has MH17 completely disappeared from the news cycle?
And who really stood to benefit from the disaster? Find out the answers to
these questions and more in this week's edition of The Corbett Report."

Show notes and MP3: http://www.corbettreport.com/?p=11947

Published on Aug 26, 2014



Source: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gWlAARb0fN4

[Cidersomerset]

http://static.bbci.co.uk/frameworks/barlesque/2.64.0/desktop/3.5/img/blq-blocks_grey_alpha.png

27 August 2014 Last updated at 00:04

Ukraine crisis: Poroshenko and Putin hold direct talks

http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/77178000/jpg/_77178314_023637122-1.jpg

The Ukrainian and Russian presidents have held their first direct talks on the crisis
in eastern Ukraine, but there appears to be no breakthrough.

Ukraine's leader Petro Poroshenko said a "roadmap" would be prepared as soon as
possible to end fighting between Ukrainian troops and separatists. Vladimir Putin
said Russia would assist a dialogue, but stopping the fighting was a matter for
Ukraine itself.Ukraine accuses Russia of arming the rebels, a claim denied by the
Kremlin.Prior to their one-to-one meeting in Belarusian capital Minsk, the two
leaders also took part in discussions with the EU's top diplomat Catherine Ashton.

The summit comes after 10 Russian soldiers were seized in Ukraine's east.

More than 2,000 people have died in fighting between Ukrainian forces and
separatists in Donetsk and Luhansk.The two regions declared independence from
Kiev following Russia's annexation of the southern Crimean peninsula from Ukraine
in March.

Read more....

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-28940095
===================================================


In search of peace: Putin & Poroshenko shake hands at key Ukraine talks

I-ZeuTLrQUs

Published on 26 Aug 2014


Russian President Vladimir Putin has arrived in Minsk for talks with the leaders of the
member states of the Eurasian Customs Union, Ukraine and representatives of the EU.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

'E. Ukraine independence vote could be a compromise' - Sir Richard Branson

AVlXuYPoF8o

Published on 24 Aug 2014


Watch the full episode here: http://youtu.be/7DP1JHsarjg

Russia and the West are locked into geopolitical tit for tat over Ukraine, and
with both sides escalating the sanctions game, businesses are suffering. But
can businessmen mediate between political leaders to reach a peaceful solution
to the conflict? And how helpful are sanctions in achieving that goal? Oksana is
joined by Sir Richard Branson, the founder of Virgin Group, to negotiate these issues.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Russia to send another humanitarian convoy to Ukraine

NWBt9VdhULQ

Published on 25 Aug 2014


Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov has announced plans for a second humanitarian
convoy to be sent to eastern Ukraine, urging all foreign actors and agencies to participate.
READ MORE: http://on.rt.com/wd4kzx

Russian humanitarian aid distributed in Lugansk

RkDPyVjyCsk

Published on 25 Aug 2014


With heavy fighting underway in south-eastern Ukraine, the distribution of humanitarian
aid from Russia has started in the city of Lugansk, which is besieged by the Kiev forces.
READ MORE: http://on.rt.com/8co41j


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Wasteland: Devastation and breadlines behind Ukraine's frontlines

Q4-N0I8zpm4

Published on 26 Aug 2014


Weeks of fighting and shelling have left thousands of people in the East struggling
to find any food. Russian humanitarian aid is being distributed in Lugansk, with anti-
government forces also handing out supplies to the struggling citizens of Donetsk.



----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Refinery blazes as heavy shelling hits outskirts of Donetsk

kykXnMpjizQ

Published on 25 Aug 2014


Ukrainian city of Makeevka in Donetsk region came under artillery fire on Monday
morning. A large plume of black smoke could be seen for miles, as firefighters
struggled to control the blaze.

[Cidersomerset]

A discussion about how we got to where we are now
where Russia has been standing up to NATO for their
own interests that were lapsed after the collapse
of communism and the wests encroachment on her
borders over the last 24 years.

Which explains another piece of this strategic puzzle.

Ray MC Govern raises the point a couple times NATO
needs a real enemy for the up keep of the mil ind
complex not only in the Us but Europe...

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

CrossTalk: Russia's Worldview (ft. Ray McGovern)

Lspli7CubV8

Published on 25 Aug 2014


Russia's worldview of international politics is largely neglected in western media.
Nevertheless, Russia has its national interests and red lines. What is the world
according to Russia? CrossTalking with Martin McCauley, Nebojsa Malic and Ray McGovern.

[gripreaper]

At the end, James mentions his Federal Reserve Documentary. I've not seen or heard anything about it. Has it been featured here at Avalon, and if so, has anyone commented on it?

I am in total agreement, that this is central to the proliferation of the entire global military industrial complex and should be the main focus for awakening the masses. Until we get that done, the rest pales in comparison.

Sorry to hijack this thread. He also did an excellent job on MH17 as well.

[giovonni]

At the end, James mentions his Federal Reserve Documentary. I've not seen or heard anything about it. Has it been featured here at Avalon, and if so, has anyone commented on it?

I am in total agreement, that this is central to the proliferation of the entire global military industrial complex and should be the main focus for awakening the masses. Until we get that done, the rest pales in comparison.

Sorry to hijack this thread. He also did an excellent job on MH17 as well.

Late for the party Kevin ...

But at least you came to the right address ... ;)

Century of Enslavement: The History of The Federal Reserve
(http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?72782-Century-of-Enslavement-The-History-of-The-Federal-Reserve)

[Cidersomerset]

Strategically this is probably why MH17 was shot down by Ukraine or western agencies...




Nato plans east European bases to counter Russian threat

Wednesday 27 August 2014


By david-icke

Posted in:
Political Manipulation
Problem-Reaction-Solution
War and Terror



http://www.davidicke.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/Anders-Fogh-Rasmussen-011.jpg



‘Nato is to deploy its forces at new bases in eastern Europe for the first time, in response to
the Ukraine crisis and in an attempt to deter Vladimir Putin from causing trouble in the former
Soviet Baltic republics, according to its secretary general.

Anders Fogh Rasmussen said the organisations’s summit in Cardiff next week would overcome
divisions within the alliance and agree to new deployments on Russia’s borders – a move
certain to trigger a strong reaction from Moscow.

He also outlined moves to boost Ukraine’s security, ‘modernise’ its armed forces and help
the country counter the threat from Russia.’

Read more: Nato plans east European bases to counter Russian threat

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/aug/26/nato-east-european-bases-counter-russian-threat

====================================================

'Kiev's Western backers have their own agenda'


U_wr00SPqhk

Published on 26 Aug 2014


The talks between Putin and Poroshenko in Minsk marked the first time the two had
a formal meeting after the Ukrainian leader secured his office in June. Political
analyst William Dores thinks that relations between two countries will depend on a
number of factors.

RT LIVE http://rt.com/on-air

[araucaria]

There will be no more Malaysia Airlines crashes, at least not with huge loss of life. The next crash is likely to be the airline itself. This might well be an additional goal.
http://i100.independent.co.uk/article/this-is-what-malaysia-airlines-flights-look-like-now--lJvap30K7x

[Cidersomerset]

There will be no more Malaysia Airlines crashes, at least not with huge loss of life. The next crash is likely to be the airline itself. This might well be an additional goal.
http://i100.independent.co.uk/articl...ow--lJvap30K7x



There was a quote by Bob Dobbs on his show when the first plane disappeared
and mentioned Kuala Lumpur being one of the worlds major financial centre
and the the using of Malaysia Airlines planes was to do with internal elite feuding.
Malaysia defied the IMF so could be targeted for a major economic hit by crashing
Malaysian Airways literally.It was in the middle of one of their very long 'payday'
shows so I cannot find the link for more info.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Kuala Lumpar new financial centre designed to be a city within a city ...Uhm !!

Sounds like The City of London or the Vatican......interesting

LK3dpMFtqZE

Published on 15 Feb 2014


Kuala Lumpur City Centre (KLCC) is a multipurpose development area in Kuala
Lumpur, Malaysia. Designed to be a city within a city, the 100-acre site hosts the
tallest twin buildings in the world, shopping mall, hotels, office buildings and
several hotels. A public park and a mosque is also built on the area and open to
everyone. (Wikipedia)



==================================================

Another reason could be.....

Kuala Lumpur War Crimes Tribunal - Israel Guilty Genocide - Morris


jYpwZJNWA0c

Published on 24 Apr 2014


The Kuala Lumpur War Crime Tribunal aims to adjudicate prosecutions brought by the Kuala Lumpur War Crime Commission particularly those which involve:
(a) Crimes against peace;
(b) Crimes against humanity;
(c) Crimes of genocide; and
(d) War crimes
thereby holding perpetrators of war crimes to account for their actions especially when relevant international judicial organs fail to do so.
Kuala Lumpur War Crimes Commission (KLWCC)
http://criminalisewar.org




This vid was made before the current Israeli attacks on Gasa........

[Cidersomerset]

‘NATO’s broken promises bring world closer to global war’

DtuySE-PlGA


Published on 27 Aug 2014


Under the pretext of an 'overt' Russian threat, NATO is pushing for a ‘readiness
action plan’ that will bring the Cold War military bloc closer to Russian borders
than ever - even despite objections from some NATO members. James Corbett,
editor of the Corbett Report, an independent Japan-based news outlet, gave his
perspective on the matter. READ MORE http://on.rt.com/4upved

[Cidersomerset]

Dutch Intellectuals Apologize to Putin for Lies on MH17, Syria, Ukraine…

Thursday 28th August 2014 at 06:02 By david-icke

http://www.davidicke.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/Professor_Cees_Hamelink_UvA_hq_Novum.jpg


‘A letter sent by a prominent Dutch Professor to Russian president Vladimir Putin
has attracted much media attention in Europe. The letter was written by Professor
Cees Hamelink and signed by dozens of Dutch intellectuals and professors. Below is
the letter in its entirety.’



Dear Mr. President Putin,

Please accept our apologies on behalf of a great many people here in the Netherlands
for our Government and our Media. The facts concerning MH17 are twisted to defame
you and your country.

We are powerless onlookers, as we witness how the Western Nations, led by the United
States, accuse Russia of crimes they commit themselves more than anybody else. We
reject the double standards that are used for Russia and the West. In our societies,
sufficient evidence is required for a conviction. The way you and your Nation are
convicted for 'crimes' without evidence, is ruthless and despicable.

You have saved us from a conflict in Syria that could have escalated into a World War.
The mass killing of innocent Syrian civilians through gassing by ‘Al-­?Qaeda’ terrorists,
trained and armed by the US and paid for by Saudi Arabia, was blamed on Assad. In
doing so, the West hoped public opinion would turn against Assad, paving the way for
an attack on Syria.

Not long after this, Western forces have built up, trained and armed an ‘opposition’ in
the Ukraine, to prepare a coup against the legitimate Government in Kiev. The
putschists taking over were quickly recognized by Western Governments. They were
provided with loans from our tax money to prop their new Government up.

The people of the Crimea did not agree with this and showed this with peaceful
demonstrations. Anonymous snipers and violence by Ukrainian troops turned these
demonstrations into demands for independence from Kiev. Whether you support these
separatist movements is immaterial, considering the blatant Imperialism of the West.

Russia is wrongly accused, without evidence or investigation, of delivering the weapons
systems that allegedly brought down MH17. For this reason Western Governments claim
they have a right to economically pressure Russia.

We, awake citizens of the West, who see the lies and machinations of our Governments,
wish to offer you our apologies for what is done in our name.
It’s unfortunately true, that our media have lost all independence and are just
mouthpieces for the Powers that Be. Because of this, Western people tend to have a
warped view of reality and are unable to hold their politicians to account.

Our hopes are focused on your wisdom. We want Peace. We see that Western
Governments do not serve the people but are working towards a New World Order. The
destruction of sovereign nations and the killing of millions of innocent people is,
seemingly, a price worth paying for them, to achieve this goal.

We, the people of the Netherlands, want Peace and Justice, also for and with Russia.
We hope to make clear that the Dutch Government speaks for itself only. We pray our
efforts will help to diffuse the rising tensions between our Nations.

Sincerely,

Professor Cees Hamelink




http://macedoniaonline.eu/content/view/25981/53/

[Cidersomerset]

Tensions Ramping up days after meeting with Putin and on the Eve of the Cardiff NATO summit......



Poroshenko triggers 'invasion' alarm as Kiev crumbles under militia offensive

w650xquPYPI

Published on 28 Aug 2014


Ukraine's President has said Russia's invading East Ukraine - although the statement has already been
rejected by Moscow. The strong rhetoric comes amid a powerful counter-offensive by anti-government
forces in Ukraine's restive Eastern regions.

===============================================================


‘Cuban missile crisis 2.0 - NATO approaches Russian border’

_nVt3cUHJtg


===============================================================



Ring of Steel: Cardiff turns into ‘open air prison’ ahead of NATO summit

maI4epjSHw4



Published on 27 Aug 2014


Cardiff city center has been turned into a high security "prison" with 16 kilometers (10 miles)
of fencing ahead of the NATO conference next week. The almost three-meter tall (9 foot 8 inches)
fencing crosses parks, roads and even rings Cardiff Castle's walls. More than 9,000 officers from
across the UK have been drafted to ensure security at the event which will be attended by 150
heads of state. An additional crew of 10,000 support staff and 2,000 journalists are also expected.
The world leaders will meet on September 4 and 5.

COURTESY: RT's RUPTLY video agency, NO RE-UPLOAD, NO REUSE - FOR LICENSING, PLEASE, CONTACT http://ruptly.tv

================================================================


http://static.bbci.co.uk/frameworks/barlesque/2.66.0/desktop/3.5/img/blq-blocks_grey_alpha.png

28 August 2014 Last updated at 20:32
Ukraine crisis: Nato images 'show Russia troops'


http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/77221000/jpg/_77221029_023659940-1.jpg

This satellite image provided by the Supreme Headquarters Allied Powers Europe shows what
Nato identifies as Russian self-propelled artillery in Ukraine Continue reading the main story


Nato has released satellite images it says show Russian armed forces inside Ukrainian territory
to help rebels fight government forces.

Ukraine's president held a security council meeting on Thursday over the "sharp aggravation of
the situation". Russia has denied the claims.

Earlier, rebels opened a new front in the south by seizing the coastal town of Novoazovsk.

At least 2,119 people have been killed in four months of fighting.

Amid condemnation from Western powers, the United Nations Security Council has held an
emergency meeting in New York to discuss the crisis.

"Russia has to stop lying and stop fuelling this conflict," the US ambassador to the UN
, Samantha Power, told the council.

Britain's ambassador Sir Mark Lyall Grant said Russia was guilty of "a clear violation of
sovereign Ukrainian territory", adding that the conflict would "no longer exist" without
Russia's direct support for separatists.

Meanwhile Russia's ambassador to the UN, Vitaly Churkin, said the crisis was a "direct
consequence of the reckless policy of Kiev, which is conducting a war against its own people".

http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/77207000/jpg/_77207450_023649275.jpg

Ukrainian forces are being deployed to help defend the southern city of Mariupol
'Significant escalation'

Nato Brigadier General Niko Tak said more than 1,000 Russian troops were operating
inside Ukraine, both supporting the separatists and fighting on their side.

He told the BBC there had been a "significant escalation in the level and sophistication
of Russia's military interference in Ukraine" over the past two weeks.

"[Nato has] detected large quantities of advanced weapons, including air defence systems
, artillery, tanks, and armoured personnel carriers being transferred to separatist forces
in eastern Ukraine," he said.

"Russia is reinforcing and resupplying separatist forces in a blatant attempt to change the
momentum of the fighting, which is currently favouring the Ukrainian military."



Short vid on link....http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-28972878

Russian ambassador to the EU: Only 10 Russian soldiers in eastern Ukraine

But Russia's ambassador to the European Union, Vladimir Chizhov, said Nato had "never
produced a single piece of evidence" for its accusations.

He said the only Russian soldiers on Ukrainian soil were 10 paratroopers captured earlier this week.

German Chancellor Angela Merkel has announced the European Council will discuss taking
further sanctions against Russia during a summit on Saturday.

Other European leaders echoed her sentiments:

British Prime Minister David Cameron warned that if Russia failed to find a political solution
, "she should be in no doubt that there will be further consequences"
Polish Foreign Minister Radoslaw Sikorski called the deployment of Russian troops an "aggression
" and said international action was needed
French President Francois Hollande said it would be "intolerable" if Russian troops were in Ukraine
, and demanded Russia stop sending aid to the rebels.


Read More.....

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-28972878

[Agape]

https://uk.news.yahoo.com/ukraine-says-russian-tanks-attacked-town-111804845.html#9RMoOu0

EU To Draft Urgent Sanctions Against Russia

European Union leaders are preparing to impose urgent new sanctions on Moscow after Russian tanks reportedly attacked a town near the Ukrainian border city of Luhansk.
Ukrainian President Petro Poroshenko said tanks had been used to "destroy virtually every house" in the town of Novosvitlivka.
There were now thousands of foreign troops and hundreds of foreign tanks inside Ukraine, he told a press conference in Brussels, where EU leaders met to discuss the crisis.
"There is a very high risk not only for peace and stability for Ukraine but for the whole peace and stability of Europe," he said.
After meeting his European counterparts, Mr Poroshenko warned that efforts to end violence with pro-Russian rebels were close to a "point of no return" and that failure could lead to "full-scale war".
His comments were echoed by EU Commission head Jose Manuel Barroso who said EU leaders had drawn up tougher sanctions against Moscow.
British Prime Minister David Cameron said: "We have to address the completely unacceptable situation of having Russian troops on Ukraine soil.
"Consequences must follow if that situation continues and we will be discussing that as well today."
Meanwhile, Lithuanian President Dalia Grybauskaite called for a stepped up arms embargo on Russia.
She said: "It is the fact that Russia is in a war state against Ukraine. That means it is in a state of war against a country which would like to be closely integrated with the EU.
"Practically Russia is in a state of war against Europe."
Nato released images apparently showing Russian forces on the ground in eastern Ukraine.
Government sources said separatists are believed to have heavy weaponry supplied by President Vladimir Putin.
Included in the weaponry are 100 tanks and artillery pieces, anti-tank weapons and shoulder-mounted missile launchers, the sources said.
Russia has repeatedly dismissed accusations it has sent soldiers or equipment across the border.
US President Barack Obama has said the satellite pictures made it "plain" that Russia had "deliberately and repeatedly violated the sovereignty and territorial integrity of Ukraine".
He said: "The violence is encouraged by Russia. The separatists are trained by Russia, they are armed by Russia, they are funded by Russia."
Nato Secretary-General Anders Fogh Rasmussen said: "Despite Moscow's hollow denials, it is now clear that Russian troops and equipment have illegally crossed the border into eastern and southeastern Ukraine.
"Russian forces are engaged in direct military operations inside Ukraine."



These Ukrainian guys are idiots, forgive me saying that but they're dragging the world to the edge of global war , both the NATO and Russia should step out of the conflict immediately .
They were not able to organise any kind of righteous and democratic government for two decades and since they reclaimed their national sovereignty ,
all of their governments were weak and corrupt and produced thousands of political and economical refugees flooding the EU in search for labour and normal life .

[Cidersomerset]

The Telegraph......

Russia demands publication of recordings from downed flight MH17

The data from the black boxes should be published, says Russia's deputy defence minister, saying the 'Boeing catastrophe throws up more and more questions'




http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/02994/MH17_01_2994191b.jpg
Australian and Dutch investigators examine a piece of debris of Malaysia Airlines Flight MH17 plane Photo: EPA

By Reuters
11:51AM BST 30 Aug 2014

Russia is demanding to know why international investigators have yet to publish the
black box data from a Malaysian airliner that was shot down over eastern Ukraine in
July, a deputy defence minister said in an interview published on Saturday.

Moscow blames Ukraine for the disaster, in which all 298 passengers and crew were
killed. In a version of events widely believed in the West, Ukraine says the Boeing 777
was shot down by pro-Russian separatists with a surface-to-air missile.

"The Boeing catastrophe throws up more and more questions. But lately not many
people are talking about this," Anatoly Antonov, deputy defence minister, told RIA news
agency.

"Why have the data still not been published about the conversations between the air
traffic controllers and the pilots of the Boeing? Why haven't the data been presented
from the international investigation of the black boxes? Who doesn't want this to
happen?"

The interview marked the latest example of Moscow's attempts to go on the media
offensive at a time when it faces intense international pressure over mounting evidence
of its military support for the rebels, something it continues to deny.

The Netherlands, which had 195 nationals on board the flight from Amsterdam to Kuala
Lumpur, is leading the international investigation into the crash of Malaysia Airlines
flight MH17.

The July 17 incident stirred international outrage, which only increased when rebel
fighters impeded investigators' access to the bodies and wreckage.

Mr Antonov said Russia had established that a Ukrainian Su-25 military aircraft was in
the vicinity of the Malaysian airliner.

"Where is the transcript of the recordings of conversations between the pilot of this
plane and his command? How did a military aircraft come to be alongside a civilian one?

"If people are saying today that a rocket was fired from the ground towards that
military plane, then I'd like to look that military pilot in the eye who used a civilian
plane as cover, if of course that's what happened," Mr Antonov said.

His comments appeared to allow for the possibility that rebels might have downed the
airliner in a failed attempt to hit a Ukrainian military plane, although he said these were
only "working versions" of what may have happened.

Mr Antonov said his ministry was pressing for answers about the tragedy from the
United States, Ukraine and European countries.

He reiterated Russia's denials of military intervention in Ukraine: "When people say
today that Russia has launched aggression or war against Ukraine, that is all nonsense."


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/russia/11065413/Russia-demands-publication-of-recordings-from-downed-flight-MH17.html

======================================================



Global Reasearch....


http://www.globalresearch.ca/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/Malaysia-MH171.jpg

Facts withheld regarding the MH17 Malaysian airlines crash. Dutch Government Refuses
to Release Black Box Recordings

‘Notable for its absence in the corporate media is any mention of the July 17 downing of
Malaysian Airlines Flight MH17 over Ukrainian territory, killing all 298 people on board.

At that time, and without any evidence, all U.S. and NATO officials immediately blamed
Russia and the Ukrainian rebels in eastern Ukraine for shooting down the Boeing 777.
They used this charge to whip the European Union into imposing sanctions on the
Russian economy.

On Aug. 11, the Dutch Safety Board announced that a preliminary report would be
published in a week with the first factual finding of the ongoing investigation into the
flight that departed from Amsterdam and crashed in Ukraine. The Netherlands was
given custody of the flight data recorder, or black box recordings, from the crash.’

As of Aug. 25, the Dutch government has refused to release the recordings. (RIA
Novosti, Aug. 25) This, of course, immediately raises suspicions that the Kiev junta
forces were responsible for the crash.

Questions had already been raised of why the Kiev forces would have placed numerous
BUK anti-aircraft batteries in the area when the rebels have no planes, why the
Malaysian flight was diverted hundreds of miles by Kiev ground control over the battle
zone, and why Kiev air traffic control data and radar data of the flight have still not
been made ­public.

Did the Ukrainian military shoot down the passenger plane simply to create a
provocation that could be turned against the rebels in east Ukraine and Russia?

Demands for an independent inquiry into the crash are growing. One petition raises the
danger of the U.S. expansion of NATO and military encirclement of Russia and posed
the possibility that Flight MH17’s crash resulted from an attempt to assassinate Russian
President Vladimir Putin, whose aircraft was returning from South America the same day.

The media’s silence now and the absence of U.S. officials providing any concrete
evidence in over a month from their own spy satellites or radar add fuel to the growing
questions and deep suspicions of the Kiev coup regime’s role in the crash and the
growing danger of U.S./NATO military expansion.

http://www.globalresearch.ca/facts-withheld-regarding-the-mh17-malaysian-airlines-crash-dutch-government-refuses-to-release-black-box-recordings/5398571

======================================================


Russian Foreign Minister: Those Images of Tanks in Ukraine Are From a Video Game
.
VBI348s-eac

[Pris]

The Telegraph......

Russia demands publication of recordings from downed flight MH17

The data from the black boxes should be published, says Russia's deputy defence minister, saying the 'Boeing catastrophe throws up more and more questions'

Heavy sigh. Even if the data from the black boxes is published, they've had all this time... I'm sure they've doctored it all up. :p

[Cidersomerset]

Hard Truths on Ukraine Suppressed by the Mainstream Media: ‘Big Lies’ Could Lead Humanity into a Global War

new Monday 1st September 2014 at 12:06 By david-icke

http://www.davidicke.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/get-attachment-330-587x330.jpg

======================================================================


https://store.globalresearch.ca/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/logo_store.png


‘On September 4 and 5, Britain will host a summit meeting of NATO heads of state.
NATO Secretary-General Anders Fogh Rasmussen will chair the proceedings.

At issue is justifying the unjustifiable. It’s doing so based on Big Lies. It’s wrongfully
accusing Russia of “illegal actions in Ukraine.”

It’s suppressing polar opposite truths. It’s supporting Washington’s imperial agenda.
It’s presenting a unified anti-Russian front.

It’s deploying thousands of combat-ready forces closer to Russia’s border. It’s
“sustain(ing) a robust (Eastern European) presence…”’

It’s risking the unthinkable. It’s risking open East/West confrontation. it’s risking global war.

It’s risking the use of nuclear weapons able to extinguish life on earth. If enacted,
Senate bill 2277: Russian Aggression Prevention Act (RAPA) increases the possibility.

It’s called “(a) bill to prevent Russian aggression toward Ukraine and other sovereign
states in Europe and Eurasia, and for other purposes.”

It’s madness. It wrongfully considers Russia an existential threat. It barely
stops short of declaring war.

It provides “major non-NATO ally status for Ukraine, Georgia and Moldova for purposes
of the transfer or possible transfer of defense articles or defense services.”

It effectively incorporates these countries into NATO. It makes its killing machine more
formidable. It lets Washington establish bases on Russia’s borders.

Wrongfully accusing Moscow of invading Ukraine provides added justification for
challenging Russia politically, economically and belligerently.

This writer’s book as editor and contributor is titled “Flashpoint in Ukraine: How the
US Drive for Hegemony Risks WW III.”

It explains what everyone needs to know. It provides thorough cutting-edge analysis
of the gravest geopolitical crisis since WW II.

James Petras called what happened “the biggest power grab since George Bush seized
Eastern Europe and converted it into a NATO bastion confronting Russia…”

Paul Craig Roberts accused Washington of “set(ting) the world on a path to war.”

Andrew Kolin discussed how Washington’s orchestrated coup transformed Ukraine
from a democracy to a police state.

Rodney Shakespeare asked if Ukraine is “a turning point in history.” Is imperial
America “riding for a fall?”

Will it go the way of other empires? Will arrogance, hubris and overreach bring
it down? Will a safer, healthier world follow?

Or is WW III more likely? Russia and China prevent US world hegemony,
says Paul Craig Roberts.

Unless Washington’s longstanding geopolitical ambitions end, “nuclear war is
the likely outcome,” he believes.

Rick Rozoff explained Ukraine’s geostrategic significance of US-led NATO’s
imperial advance east.

He calls Ukraine “the decisive linchpin in plans by the US and its NATO allies
to effect a military cordon sanitaire severing Russia from Europe.”

Its NATO membership is planned. At issue is marginalizing, containing and isolating Russia.

It’s positioning new NATO bases on its border. It’s threatening its security.

It’s risking East/West confrontation. Humanity’s fate hangs in the balance.

John McMurtry calls conditions in Ukraine “another variation on the great crisis
of the world – the undeclared global war of transnational corporate money
sequences to multiply themselves through human societies and life on earth
in the diagnosable form of an invasive cancer.”

What’s different is Southeastern Ukrainian resistance. Rejecting fascist repression.

Demanding real democracy. Courageous freedom fighters putting their bodies
on the line to achieve it. Risking all for what’s too important to lose.

Will Ukraine “be a new turning point against the Great Sickness of our world,”
McMurtry asked? Or will imperialism’s dark side worsen?

The fullness of time will tell. In the meantime, anti-Russian propaganda war
rages. Cold War geopolitics never ended.

Since Soviet Russia’s 1991 dissolution, Western policy remained hard-wired in place.

Obama and then Russian President Dmitry Medvedev’s 2009 “fresh start”
“reset” was a convenient illusion.

Putin’s overwhelming March 2012 reelection heightened tensions. Relentless
bashing followed.

He’s public enemy No. 1. He’s targeted for supporting multi-world polarity.
For defending Russian sovereignty.For opposing imperial lawlessness. For
deploring war. For championing peaceful conflict resolution.

Distinguished contributors make “Flashpoint in Ukraine: How the US Drive
for Hegemony Risks WW III” must reading.

Its thorough analysis is polar opposite MSM rubbish. Escalating crisis conditions
risk global conflict.

Obama bears full responsibility. Complicit EU partners share it. Putin is wrongfully
blamed for their crimes.

Washington stops at nothing to advance its imperium. Millions of corpses attest
to its barbarity.

Replacing independent governments with subservient pro-Western ones is
longstanding US policy.

Washington-supported Kiev putschists staged the most brazen coup since
Mussolini’s 1922 march on Rome. Claims otherwise don’t wash.

Obama’s new friends represent mob rule. They include a rogue’s gallery of
societal misfits. They’re illegitimate putschists.

They’re xenophobic, hate-mongering, ultranationalist anti-Semites.

They’re militant fascists. Many are neo-Nazi thugs. They openly display
swastikas, Iron Crosses, SS insignia, other Nazi symbols and Sieg Heil salutes.

For the first time since WW II, overt fascists have real power. They hold
key government posts. They mock democratic values.

Washington elevated them to power. It did so by ousting a
democratically elected government.

Rule by intimidation is policy. So is waging dirty war on its own citizens.

Ukraine matters. It’s strategically located. It’s in Europe’s geographic center.

It borders seven countries. They include Belarus, Hungary, Moldova,
Poland, Romania, Slovakia and Russia.

After Western/Central Russia, it’s Europe’s largest country territorially.

Kiev putschists reveal fascism’s dark side. Ukraine is its re-emergent epicenter.

Ruling authorities want all opposition elements crushed. They want
fascist rule institutionalized. They want democracy prevented at all costs.

A Russian “White Book” contains documented hard evidence. It reveals
appalling Kiev human rights violations.

It covers them from late November 2013 through March 2014. They include:

(1) Violations of human rights.

(2) Interference by the European Union and United States.

(3) Weapons and violent methods used by protesters.

(4) Restrictions on basic freedoms and crackdown on dissidents.

(5) Discrimination based on ethnic background.

(6) Religious persecution.

According to Moscow’s press service, content is “based on reports in the
Russian and Western media, as well as statements by representatives of
the current Kiev authorities and their supporters, eyewitness testimon(ies),
observations and on-site interviews collected by Russian nongovernmental
organizations.”

A second White Paper covers the period April through July 2014. It calls
conditions “aggravated in all areas.” They’re worse than ever.

Evidence indicts illegitimate putschists. It includes ultranationalist extremists,
Nazism’s reemergence, brazen pressure and threats, severe repression,
physical violence, and suppressing press freedom.

Kiev fascists banned Russian TV channels. They suppressed independent
news sources. They want their message alone getting out.

They harass, beat, and terrorize independent journalists. They brutalize anti-fascist activists.

They’re waging war on freedom. They enjoy full US support and encouragement.

No-holds-barred brutality is official policy. Ukraine is unsafe to live in.

It’s reminiscent of 1930s Nazi Germany. History has a disturbing way of repeating.

Its core elements are unchanged. They include waging war on freedom. Anti-Semitism is rife.

Thousands of Jews left. Others prepare to do so. They’re vulnerable. They’re justifiably scared.

Fascism gives no quarter. Things may become as horrific as before. Ukrainians have
just cause for concern. They’re on their own.

Washington bears full responsibility for conditions. Expect worse ahead, not better.

On Saturday, European Commission President Jose Manuel Barroso promised “very
strong and clear (anti-Russian) measures” without change in Southeastern Ukraine
or if conditions worsen.

Barroso lied claiming the “opening of new fronts and the use of Russian regular
forces against Kiev. It’s “not acceptable and represents a grave transgression,” he said.

More sanctions are planned. Washington intends imposing additional ones.

Sergey Lavrov responded, saying:

“It’s not the first time we’ve heard wild guesses, though facts have never been presented so far.”

”There have been reports about satellite imagery exposing Russian troop movements.
They turned out to be images from video games. The latest accusations happen to be
much the same quality.”

”We’ll react by remaining persistent in our policies to stay bloodshed and give a start
to the nationwide dialogue and negotiations about the future of Ukraine, with participation
of all Ukrainian regions and political forces, something that was agreed upon in Geneva
back in April and in Berlin (in August), yet what is being so deliberately evaded by our
Western partners now.”


“From a military point of view, self-defense militia are doing a very simple thing.”

“They are driving Ukrainian troops and National Guards from their positions used to shell
peaceful cities, destroying kindergartens, schools, hospitals, Orthodox churches and
infrastructure, and killing a large number of civilians.”

“Definitely, to stop all this given the conditions of Kiev and its sponsors unwillingness
to fulfill unconditional ceasefire obligations, the only way to save lives of civilians and
diminish the number of casualties is to force the Kiev forces out of their positions
used for bombardment.”

Vladimir Putin called on Kiev to begin constructive dialogue. Deescalate conflict,
he urged. “We have agreed on a plan, so its realization must be pursued,” he said.

Kiev “must immediately start substantial talks – not a technical discussion – on the
political organization of society and the state in southeast Ukraine so that the
interests of people who live there are protected,” he added.

Putin’s plan prioritizes constructive peace talks. It’s up to Kiev.

At the same time, self-defense freedom fighters won’t patiently await what so
far hasn’t materialized.

Not while Kiev’s military bombs and shells their “cities and towns…to the ground…”

Not while innocent civilians are murdered. Not while hundreds of thousands flee
for safety. Not while war without mercy rages.

Putin believes it’s impossible to know when crisis conditions will end or under
what circumstances.

As long as Washington encourages and orchestrates them, expect conditions
ahead to worsen, not improve.

Expect Russia to be wrongfully blamed. Expect war without mercy to continue.
Expect innocent civilians to suffer most.

Sanctions wars cut both ways. Putin advised his counterparts to reconsider
what they’re planning.

“What are the so-called European values,” he asked? “Support for an armed
coup, suppression of opponents with armed forces?”

“So these are ‘European values?’ I believe our colleagues should be reminded
of their own ideals,” he added.

Their policies belie their rhetoric. At issue is marginalizing, weakening, isolating,
containing and co-opting Russia.

It’s smashing its sovereign independence. It’s replacing it with pro-Western
stooge governance.

It’s turning Russia into another US colony. It’s stealing its resources. It’s
exploiting its people. It’s eliminating a major rival.

It’s isolating China. It’s attempting to replicate the same strategy.

It’s recklessly pursuing unchallenged global dominance. It’s risking global war in the process.

Stephen Lendman lives in Chicago. He can be reached at lendmanstephen@sbcglobal.net.


His new book as editor and contributor is titled “Flashpoint in Ukraine: US Drive for Hegemony Risks WW III.”


http://www.claritypress.com/LendmanIII.html


Visit his blog site at sjlendman.blogspot.com.


Listen to cutting-edge discussions with distinguished guests on the Progressive Radio News Hour on the Progressive Radio Network.


It airs three times weekly: live on Sundays at 1PM Central time plus two prerecorded archived programs.


http://www.progressiveradionetwork.com/the-progressive-news-hour





Read more: Hard Truths on Ukraine Suppressed by the Mainstream Media: 'Big Lies' Could Lead Humanity into a Global War



http://www.globalresearch.ca/hard-truths-on-ukraine-suppressed-by-the-mainstream-media-big-lies-could-lead-the-world-into-a-global-war/5398629

[Cidersomerset]

American CNN reporter hasnt found any Russian tanks

Monday 1st September 2014 at 08:52 By david-icke

YUWttDxSfJk

[Cidersomerset]

'The essence of Ukraine tragedy is..' Putin responds to BBC doorstep

QdpZ_Q7GR7I

Published on 1 Sep 2014


BBC observer John Sweeney tried to approach Vladimir Putin
to ask several questions on Ukraine. President promised to
answer later, however, the journalist insisted on receiving
the answers immediately.

====================================================


'There'll be no military intervention in Ukraine' - Lavrov

73KSqGKmQT0

Published on 1 Sep 2014


Russia’s foreign minister believes that the peace plan offered by the Ukrainian
president is “unrealistic” and calls of the US and the EU to persuade Kiev to stop
using heavy artillery and airstrikes against the civilian population in the country’s
east. FULL STORY: http://on.rt.com/8ock3x

[Cidersomerset]

Donetsk, Lugansk ready to remain part of Ukraine, seek special status

EYClQiUfqb4

Published on 1 Sep 2014


At talks in the Belorussian capital, the self-proclaimed Donetsk and
Lugansk People’s Republics have urged Kiev to acknowledge their
autonomy within Ukraine, but said they wish to remain an integral
part of the country. READ MORE: http://on.rt.com/s2rb70

RT LIVE http://rt.com/on-air

[Hervé]

Dutch Safety Board: Investigation crash MH17, 17 July 2014 Donetsk (http://www.onderzoeksraad.nl/en/onderzoek/2049/investigation-crash-mh17-17-july-2014/onderzoek/1561/publication-preliminary-report-mh17#fasen)


http://www.onderzoeksraad.nl/uploads/albums/1155/thumbs/909ed785c521anp-2802697780x80.jpg
(http://www.onderzoeksraad.nl/en/onderzoek/2049/investigation-crash-mh17-17-july-2014/onderzoek/1561/publication-preliminary-report-mh17#fasen)

Nieuws 4 sep. 2014 Publication preliminary report MH17 (http://www.onderzoeksraad.nl/en/onderzoek/2049/investigation-crash-mh17-17-july-2014/onderzoek/1561/publication-preliminary-report-mh17#fasen)


The Dutch Safety Board will issue the preliminary report on the investigation into the crash of MH17 on Tuesday 9 September 2014. The preliminary report will be available at www.safetyboard.nl (http://www.safetyboard.nl) at 10:00 AM local time Amsterdam (08:00 hours UTC).

The preliminary report will present factual information based on the sources available to the Dutch Safety Board. In the months to come further investigation is needed before the final report can be written. The Dutch Safety Board expects to publish the final report within a year after the crash.

[Cidersomerset]

Interesting they are still insinuating it was the Russians who shot down MH17.
Its Panorama not BBC news suggesting this..........

This article is suspiciously timed to co inside with end of NATO conference
and the possible continuation of EU sanctions against Russia...

EU officials agree on new package of sanctions against Russia

tXMAfeomsZc

Published on 8 Sep 2014


A new package of sanctions against Russia has been adopted by the EU. The new
package of sanctions is reportedly aimed at Russian state-owned oil companies,
particularly Rosneft, Transneft, and Gazpromneft and at the defense sector


‘Sanctions counter-productive, damaging to all’

cMN82jxbxqk

Published on 8 Sep 2014


The EU agrees on a new set of sanctions against Russia, but says if the ceasefire in
Ukraine holds they may never come into force. RT talks to John Griffing, a
Republican politician from Texas, about the timing of these new sanctions
announced amid the Russia-brokered ceasefire in Eastern Ukraine.



----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The Ukrainian people want it to work...But do Kiev and NATO ??

I have feeling this will work. People want it: OSCE on Ukraine ceasefire

9JYBbEP9ea4

The ceasefire agreed between Kiev and anti-government forces in Ukraine is still
holding, despite isolated outbreaks of fighting. RT's Paula Slier talks to Kai Vittrup
from OSCE special monitoring mission to Ukraine.

RT LIVE http://rt.com/on-air


---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

http://static.bbci.co.uk/frameworks/barlesque/2.64.0/desktop/3.5/img/blq-blocks_grey_alpha.png


8 September 2014 Last updated at 18:12

MH17 disaster: Russians 'controlled BUK missile system'By John Sweeney

BBC Panorama


http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/77456000/jpg/_77456673_023288929-1.jpg
A piece of debris of the fuselage at the crash site of the Malaysia Airlines Flight
MH17 near the village of Grabove, some 80km east of Donetsk, on 25 July 2014.

Eyewitnesses say they saw what looked like Russian soldiers in control of a BUK hours
before MH17 was shot down Continue reading the main story


MH17 crashWhere are investigators?
Key players
Dutch ceremony
Forensic challenge

Russians were operating a BUK missile launcher seen in the area where the Malaysia
Airlines passenger jet MH17 was shot down, eyewitnesses have told Panorama.

Distinctive shrapnel damage to the plane points to a fragmentation weapon - such
as a BUK - downing the plane.

The Kremlin had previously suggested that the missile was from a Ukrainian fighter jet.

Pro-Russian rebels have denied any possession of a BUK.

However, photographs and videos cast doubt on the claim by the Kremlin and
pro-Russian rebels - that they did not have a BUK missile launcher on their territory.

Three eyewitnesses, all civilians, separately told Panorama that they saw a
missile-launcher in rebel-held territory a few hours before the Boeing jet was hit.

One eyewitness saw the missile-launcher roll off a low-loader at Snezhnoye,
around ten miles from the crash site, at around 13:30 local time (10:30 GMT).

"We just saw it being offloaded and when the BUK started its engine the
exhaust smoke filled the whole town square," he said.

'Pure Russian accents'

The eyewitness told the BBC that the crew struck him as Russian soldiers:
"Well-disciplined, unlike the rebels, and not wearing the standard Ukrainian
camouflage uniform sported by government and rebel troops alike."

"They had pure Russian accents. They say the letter 'g' differently to us," he said.

In eastern Ukraine, most people speak Russian but the BUK crew did not
speak Russian with a local accent.

A piece of the crashed Malaysia Airlines Flight 17 lies in the village of
Petropavlivka, Donetsk region, eastern Ukraine, on 23 July 2014

http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/77459000/jpg/_77459091_023258339-1.jpg
Investigators said the plane was hit by shrapnel from a fragmentation weapon such as a
BUK His testimony was confirmed by a second eyewitness, who added that an officer in
a military jeep escorting the BUK spoke with a Muscovite accent.

If correct, the Kremlin has to explain to the relatives of the 298 passengers and crew
who died - including ten Britons - why Russian military personnel were allegedly seen
in the area escorting a BUK shortly before MH17 was shot down.

If these eyewitnesses are right, then the BUK crew may have been part of the Kremlin's
'Ghost Army' - reportedly thousands of Russian soldiers who have been secretly infiltrated
into Ukraine and have tipped the military balance heavily in the rebels' favour.

Unanswered questions

The Kremlin's denial of military support to the rebels is countered by a mass of evidence,
including a video of a mechanised battalion column of Russian tanks and military hardware
shot from the back of a bus in Ukraine.

Fresh graves of alleged Russian soldiers killed in the fighting in Ukraine also tell a wholly
different story to the Kremlin's official line that it has no role in the war.

Last week Panorama caught up with Mr Putin in Yakutsk's Mammoth Museum in Siberia
and asked him if he regretted the killings in Ukraine.


ISNvOzzrfsU

Vladimir Putin: "Now is the beginning of a very important process"

He parried the question and was quick to blame the Ukrainian government for not talking
to the rebels and its army for "shelling residential areas".

The president has a point. When I was in Donetsk in July, the Ukrainian army, seeking to
shell a rebel base in the city, missed and hit the maternity hospital. Fortunately expectant
mums and newborn babies had already been moved down to a cellar.

Human Rights Watch has condemned both the government and rebel sides for indiscriminate shelling of civilians.

But Mr Putin left as I tried to tackle him on Russia's actions in the war and MH17, so those questions remain unanswered.

Mikhail Khodorkovsky, once Russia's richest man who spent ten years in prison after he crossed President Putin, said:

"The prospect of democratic change of power in Russia does not exist anymore. There will be more blood in the future."

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-29109398

====================================================

CrossTalk: Reinventing NATO?

wI8ItLATc54

Published on 8 Sep 2014


A military alliance in search of an identity: For over two decades NATO has had
branding issues. To justify its existence, it absolutely needs an enemy. In the wake
of the Ukraine crisis, Russia now fits that bill.

CrossTalking with Mark Sleboda, Alexander Mercouris and Brian Becker.

[avid]

bias bias - and the same thing with the BBC coverage of the independence vote of Scotland departing the UK

[Cidersomerset]

The West is still trying to pin this on Russia or the Russian separatists , no mention
of Ukrainian forces, NATO or no mention of covert intelligence pyops that happen
all the time......( Not in the Mainstream world ) !!!!.....Yeah Right !

No mention that it was continuous attacks by Kiev forces that limited access to
the crash site....

Two quotes from the article below shows continuous bias in reporting from the west,
First quote says the report attributes no blame or liability until a criminal investigation
is conducted . The second quote strongly suggest the west suspects Russia or Rebels.
No mention who the Russians think did it !!!



The report does not attribute blame or liability for the crash but a separate
criminal investigation is being conducted by prosecutors in The Hague, she adds.



Ukraine's government and several Western leaders say there is strong evidence
that pro-Russian separatists shot down the plane with an anti-aircraft system
known as Buk.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


http://static.bbci.co.uk/frameworks/barlesque/2.64.0/desktop/3.5/img/blq-blocks_grey_alpha.png

AfricaAsiaEuropeLatin AmericaMiddle EastUS & Canada9 September 2014 Last updated at 09:40

MH17 crash: Dutch experts say numerous objects hit plane



Short vid on link.....

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-29119024

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Dutch experts say Malaysia Airlines flight MH17 broke up in mid-air after being hit
by "numerous objects" that "pierced the plane at high velocity".

A report released by the Dutch Safety Board said there was "no evidence of
technical or human error".

A BBC correspondent says this evidence is consistent with the plane being struck by
shrapnel from a missile.

The plane was flying from Amsterdam to Kuala Lumpur when it crashed in rebel-
held territory eastern Ukraine in July.

All 298 people on board, most of them from the Netherlands, died when the plane
came down, amid reports it was shot down by pro-Russian rebels.

Dutch aviation investigators relied on information from the black box flight data
recorders, air traffic control, satellite images and photos from the scene to compile
the preliminary report.

Pro-Russian fighters patrol the site of the crashed Malaysia Airlines plane in eastern
Ukraine - 18 July 2014 T

http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/76387000/jpg/_76387130_76387109.jpg

he site of the crash was in rebel-held territory in eastern Ukraine, making the
investigation even more difficult

http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/77468000/png/_77468932_blackbox.png

Investigators say the cockpit voice recorder "gave no indication that there was
anything abnormal" on board


http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/77468000/jpg/_77468939_77468933.jpg

The Dutch team analysed photographs of the wreckage that showed a number of
pieces with multiple holes


-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Analysis: Richard Westcott, Transport correspondent

This report doesn't say flight MH17 was knocked from the sky by a missile. But it
pretty much rules out anything else.

There were no emergencies on board, no mechanical problems, the pilots didn't
make any mistakes.

Instead, it talks about the plane being punctured by "high-velocity objects", which
is consistent with how the BUK missile system works (that's the system many
suspect was responsible). They don't actually hit the target, they explode nearby
and pepper it with shrapnel for maximum damage.

But all of this doesn't answer the critical question. Who fired the missile?

Both sides in this conflict use the same weapon. To find out who made this terrible
mistake, they need to determine where on the ground the missile was actually
launched from. And one expert told me that they should eventually be able to work
that out with a combination of radar data and evidence from the scene.

There is one very sobering fact also highlighted in this report. Three other, very
large commercial airliners flew over the same area at around the same time.

Malaysia plane crash: What we know

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Criminal investigation

While it is not the final report into the crash, the findings are significant because
they are the first official account of what happened, says the BBC's Anna Holligan in
the Netherlands.

The report does not attribute blame or liability for the crash but a separate criminal
investigation is being conducted by prosecutors in The Hague, she adds.

The Malaysia Airlines Boeing 777 crashed between Krasni Luch in Luhansk region
and Shakhtarsk in the region of Donetsk on 17 July.

The Dutch Safety Board is leading an international probe to try to piece together
evidence on what happened.

Ukraine's government and several Western leaders say there is strong evidence
that pro-Russian separatists shot down the plane with an anti-aircraft system
known as Buk.

Russia has consistently denied allegations that it had supplied any missiles or
weapons to the rebels.

Experts from the UK, Germany, Australia, Malaysia, the US, Ukraine and Russia are
collaborating on the case.

The board says it expects the final report to be published within a year.

http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/76388000/jpg/_76388480_ukraine_malaysia_plane_624_latest_v2.jpg


Map of MH17 flight path
Were you or was someone you know affected by the crash of Malaysia Airlines flight MH17? What is your
reaction to the interim report into the causes? You can email your thoughts to Haveyoursay@bbc.co.uk

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-29119024

[Cidersomerset]

The West media is still trying to pin this on Russia or the Russian separatists , no
mention of Ukrainian forces, NATO or no mention of covert intelligence pyops that
happenall the time......( Not in the Mainstream world ) !!!!.....Yeah Right !

No mention that it was continuous attacks by Kiev forces that limited access to
the crash site....

Two quotes from the article below shows continuous bias in reporting from the west,
First quote says the report attributes no blame or liability until a criminal investigation
is conducted . The second quote strongly suggest the west suspects Russia or Rebels.
No mention who the Russians think did it !!!



The report does not attribute blame or liability for the crash but a separate
criminal investigation is being conducted by prosecutors in The Hague, she adds.



Ukraine's government and several Western leaders say there is strong evidence
that pro-Russian separatists shot down the plane with an anti-aircraft system
known as Buk.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


http://static.bbci.co.uk/frameworks/barlesque/2.64.0/desktop/3.5/img/blq-blocks_grey_alpha.png

AfricaAsiaEuropeLatin AmericaMiddle EastUS & Canada9 September 2014 Last updated at 09:40

MH17 crash: Dutch experts say numerous objects hit plane



Short vid on link.....

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-29119024

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Dutch experts say Malaysia Airlines flight MH17 broke up in mid-air after being hit
by "numerous objects" that "pierced the plane at high velocity".

A report released by the Dutch Safety Board said there was "no evidence of
technical or human error".

A BBC correspondent says this evidence is consistent with the plane being struck by
shrapnel from a missile.

The plane was flying from Amsterdam to Kuala Lumpur when it crashed in rebel-
held territory eastern Ukraine in July.

All 298 people on board, most of them from the Netherlands, died when the plane
came down, amid reports it was shot down by pro-Russian rebels.

Dutch aviation investigators relied on information from the black box flight data
recorders, air traffic control, satellite images and photos from the scene to compile
the preliminary report.

Pro-Russian fighters patrol the site of the crashed Malaysia Airlines plane in eastern
Ukraine - 18 July 2014 T

http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/76387000/jpg/_76387130_76387109.jpg

he site of the crash was in rebel-held territory in eastern Ukraine, making the
investigation even more difficult

http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/77468000/png/_77468932_blackbox.png

Investigators say the cockpit voice recorder "gave no indication that there was
anything abnormal" on board


http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/77468000/jpg/_77468939_77468933.jpg

The Dutch team analysed photographs of the wreckage that showed a number of
pieces with multiple holes


-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Analysis: Richard Westcott, Transport correspondent

This report doesn't say flight MH17 was knocked from the sky by a missile. But it
pretty much rules out anything else.

There were no emergencies on board, no mechanical problems, the pilots didn't
make any mistakes.

Instead, it talks about the plane being punctured by "high-velocity objects", which
is consistent with how the BUK missile system works (that's the system many
suspect was responsible). They don't actually hit the target, they explode nearby
and pepper it with shrapnel for maximum damage.

But all of this doesn't answer the critical question. Who fired the missile?

Both sides in this conflict use the same weapon. To find out who made this terrible
mistake, they need to determine where on the ground the missile was actually
launched from. And one expert told me that they should eventually be able to work
that out with a combination of radar data and evidence from the scene.

There is one very sobering fact also highlighted in this report. Three other, very
large commercial airliners flew over the same area at around the same time.

Malaysia plane crash: What we know

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Criminal investigation

While it is not the final report into the crash, the findings are significant because
they are the first official account of what happened, says the BBC's Anna Holligan in
the Netherlands.

The report does not attribute blame or liability for the crash but a separate criminal
investigation is being conducted by prosecutors in The Hague, she adds.

The Malaysia Airlines Boeing 777 crashed between Krasni Luch in Luhansk region
and Shakhtarsk in the region of Donetsk on 17 July.

The Dutch Safety Board is leading an international probe to try to piece together
evidence on what happened.

Ukraine's government and several Western leaders say there is strong evidence
that pro-Russian separatists shot down the plane with an anti-aircraft system
known as Buk.

Russia has consistently denied allegations that it had supplied any missiles or
weapons to the rebels.

Experts from the UK, Germany, Australia, Malaysia, the US, Ukraine and Russia are
collaborating on the case.

The board says it expects the final report to be published within a year.

http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/76388000/jpg/_76388480_ukraine_malaysia_plane_624_latest_v2.jpg


Map of MH17 flight path
Were you or was someone you know affected by the crash of Malaysia Airlines flight MH17? What is your
reaction to the interim report into the causes? You can email your thoughts to Haveyoursay@bbc.co.uk

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-29119024

[Cidersomerset]

This is a post I put on the main MH 17 thread yesterday that gives an update
of the situation in the Ukraine.....

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Interesting they are still insinuating it was the Russians who shot down MH17.
Its Panorama not BBC news suggesting this..........

This article is suspiciously timed to co inside with end of NATO conference
and the possible continuation of EU sanctions against Russia...

EU officials agree on new package of sanctions against Russia

tXMAfeomsZc

Published on 8 Sep 2014


A new package of sanctions against Russia has been adopted by the EU. The new
package of sanctions is reportedly aimed at Russian state-owned oil companies,
particularly Rosneft, Transneft, and Gazpromneft and at the defense sector


‘Sanctions counter-productive, damaging to all’

cMN82jxbxqk

Published on 8 Sep 2014


The EU agrees on a new set of sanctions against Russia, but says if the ceasefire in
Ukraine holds they may never come into force. RT talks to John Griffing, a
Republican politician from Texas, about the timing of these new sanctions
announced amid the Russia-brokered ceasefire in Eastern Ukraine.



----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The Ukrainian people want it to work...But do Kiev and NATO ??

I have feeling this will work. People want it: OSCE on Ukraine ceasefire

9JYBbEP9ea4

The ceasefire agreed between Kiev and anti-government forces in Ukraine is still
holding, despite isolated outbreaks of fighting. RT's Paula Slier talks to Kai Vittrup
from OSCE special monitoring mission to Ukraine.

RT LIVE http://rt.com/on-air


---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

http://static.bbci.co.uk/frameworks/barlesque/2.64.0/desktop/3.5/img/blq-blocks_grey_alpha.png


8 September 2014 Last updated at 18:12

MH17 disaster: Russians 'controlled BUK missile system'By John Sweeney

BBC Panorama


http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/77456000/jpg/_77456673_023288929-1.jpg
A piece of debris of the fuselage at the crash site of the Malaysia Airlines Flight
MH17 near the village of Grabove, some 80km east of Donetsk, on 25 July 2014.

Eyewitnesses say they saw what looked like Russian soldiers in control of a BUK hours
before MH17 was shot down Continue reading the main story


MH17 crashWhere are investigators?
Key players
Dutch ceremony
Forensic challenge

Russians were operating a BUK missile launcher seen in the area where the Malaysia
Airlines passenger jet MH17 was shot down, eyewitnesses have told Panorama.

Distinctive shrapnel damage to the plane points to a fragmentation weapon - such
as a BUK - downing the plane.

The Kremlin had previously suggested that the missile was from a Ukrainian fighter jet.

Pro-Russian rebels have denied any possession of a BUK.

However, photographs and videos cast doubt on the claim by the Kremlin and
pro-Russian rebels - that they did not have a BUK missile launcher on their territory.

Three eyewitnesses, all civilians, separately told Panorama that they saw a
missile-launcher in rebel-held territory a few hours before the Boeing jet was hit.

One eyewitness saw the missile-launcher roll off a low-loader at Snezhnoye,
around ten miles from the crash site, at around 13:30 local time (10:30 GMT).

"We just saw it being offloaded and when the BUK started its engine the
exhaust smoke filled the whole town square," he said.

'Pure Russian accents'

The eyewitness told the BBC that the crew struck him as Russian soldiers:
"Well-disciplined, unlike the rebels, and not wearing the standard Ukrainian
camouflage uniform sported by government and rebel troops alike."

"They had pure Russian accents. They say the letter 'g' differently to us," he said.

In eastern Ukraine, most people speak Russian but the BUK crew did not
speak Russian with a local accent.

A piece of the crashed Malaysia Airlines Flight 17 lies in the village of
Petropavlivka, Donetsk region, eastern Ukraine, on 23 July 2014

http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/77459000/jpg/_77459091_023258339-1.jpg
Investigators said the plane was hit by shrapnel from a fragmentation weapon such as a
BUK His testimony was confirmed by a second eyewitness, who added that an officer in
a military jeep escorting the BUK spoke with a Muscovite accent.

If correct, the Kremlin has to explain to the relatives of the 298 passengers and crew
who died - including ten Britons - why Russian military personnel were allegedly seen
in the area escorting a BUK shortly before MH17 was shot down.

If these eyewitnesses are right, then the BUK crew may have been part of the Kremlin's
'Ghost Army' - reportedly thousands of Russian soldiers who have been secretly infiltrated
into Ukraine and have tipped the military balance heavily in the rebels' favour.

Unanswered questions

The Kremlin's denial of military support to the rebels is countered by a mass of evidence,
including a video of a mechanised battalion column of Russian tanks and military hardware
shot from the back of a bus in Ukraine.

Fresh graves of alleged Russian soldiers killed in the fighting in Ukraine also tell a wholly
different story to the Kremlin's official line that it has no role in the war.

Last week Panorama caught up with Mr Putin in Yakutsk's Mammoth Museum in Siberia
and asked him if he regretted the killings in Ukraine.


ISNvOzzrfsU

Vladimir Putin: "Now is the beginning of a very important process"

He parried the question and was quick to blame the Ukrainian government for not talking
to the rebels and its army for "shelling residential areas".

The president has a point. When I was in Donetsk in July, the Ukrainian army, seeking to
shell a rebel base in the city, missed and hit the maternity hospital. Fortunately expectant
mums and newborn babies had already been moved down to a cellar.

Human Rights Watch has condemned both the government and rebel sides for indiscriminate shelling of civilians.

But Mr Putin left as I tried to tackle him on Russia's actions in the war and MH17, so those questions remain unanswered.

Mikhail Khodorkovsky, once Russia's richest man who spent ten years in prison after he crossed President Putin, said:

"The prospect of democratic change of power in Russia does not exist anymore. There will be more blood in the future."

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-29109398

====================================================

CrossTalk: Reinventing NATO?

wI8ItLATc54

Published on 8 Sep 2014


A military alliance in search of an identity: For over two decades NATO has had
branding issues. To justify its existence, it absolutely needs an enemy. In the wake
of the Ukraine crisis, Russia now fits that bill.

CrossTalking with Mark Sleboda, Alexander Mercouris and Brian Becker.

[Lifebringer]

Well...just now on MSM, they stated the plane was struck by "high energy weapons. On channel 6 just before the news of the flooding in AZ. Amazing disclosure if they just told that that plane was bought down that way, perhaps the bright flash before 370 disappeared off the map, may be a clue. Let's hope they left another breadcrumb to follow to their prosecution.

[Hervé]

From Dutch Safety Board: http://www.onderzoeksraad.nl/en/onderzoek/2049/investigation-crash-mh17-17-july-2014/preliminary-report/1562/preliminary-report-points-towards-external-cause-of-mh17-crash#fasen


September 9, 2014
The Dutch Safety Board has issued the preliminary report on the investigation into the crash of MH17 on Tuesday September 9, 2014. The preliminary report presents factual information based on the sources available to the Dutch Safety Board.

In the months to come further investigation is needed before the final report can be written. The Dutch Safety Board expects to publish the final report within a year after the crash.

Click here (YouTube) (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gCh2ZsmS_Eg)to watch the explanation of the premliminary report by Chairman Tjibbe Joustra.


Preliminary report



http://www.onderzoeksraad.nl/uploads/albums/1155/thumbs/909ed785c521anp-2802697780x80.jpg (http://www.onderzoeksraad.nl/en/onderzoek/2049/investigation-crash-mh17-17-july-2014/preliminary-report/1562/preliminary-report-points-towards-external-cause-of-mh17-crash#fasen) Persberichten 9 sep. 2014 Preliminary report points towards external cause of MH17 crash (http://www.onderzoeksraad.nl/en/onderzoek/2049/investigation-crash-mh17-17-july-2014/preliminary-report/1562/preliminary-report-points-towards-external-cause-of-mh17-crash#fasen)


No evidence of technical faults

Flight MH17 with a Boeing 777-200 operated by Malaysia Airlines broke up in the air probably as the result of structural damage caused by a large number of high-energy objects that penetrated the aircraft from outside. This is mentioned in the preliminary report on the investigation into the crash of MH17 that has been published today by the Dutch Safety Board. There are no indications that the MH17 crash was caused by a technical fault or by actions of the crew.

The cockpit voice recorder, the flight data recorder and data from air traffic control all suggest that flight MH17 proceeded as normal until 13:20:03 (UTC), after which it ended abruptly. A full listening of the communications among the crew members in the cockpit recorded on the cockpit voice recorder revealed no signs of any technical faults or an emergency situation. Neither were any warning tones heard in the cockpit that might have pointed to technical problems. The flight data recorder registered no aircraft system warnings, and aircraft engine parameters were consistent with normal operation during the flight. The radio communications with Ukrainian air traffic control confirm that no emergency call was made by the cockpit crew. The final calls by Ukrainian air traffic control made between 13.20:00 and 13.22:02 (UTC) remained unanswered.

The pattern of wreckage on the ground suggests that the aircraft split into pieces during flight (an in-flight break up). Based on the available maintenance history the airplane was airworthy when it took off from Amsterdam and there were no known technical problems. The aircraft was manned by a qualified and experienced crew.

Pattern of damage
As yet it has not been possible to conduct a detailed study of the wreckage. However, the available images show that the pieces of wreckage were pierced in numerous places. The pattern of damage to the aircraft fuselage and the cockpit is consistent with that which may be expected from a large number of high-energy objects that penetrated the aircraft from outside. It’s likely that this damage resulted in a loss of structural integrity of the aircraft, leading to an in-flight break up. This also explains the abrupt end to the data registration on the recorders, the simultaneous loss of contact with air traffic control and the aircraft's disappearance from radar.

Further investigation
In its preliminary report, the Safety Board presents the initial findings of an investigation that is still fully underway. More research will be necessary to determine more precisely what caused the crash and how the airplane disintegrated. The Board believes that additional evidence will become available in the period ahead. From this point on, the research team will start working towards producing the definitive investigation report. The Board aims to publish the report within one year of the date of the crash.

Procedure
The draft preliminary report has been sent to the Accredited Representative of the states that participate in the investigation (Malaysia, Ukraine, the Russian Federation, the United Kingdom, the United States of America and Australia) for review. All Accredited Representatives have sent a reaction. The Dutch Safety Board assessed the provided suggestions and amended the report where appropriate.

Tjibbe Joustra, Chairman of the Dutch Safety Board
“The MH17 crash has shocked the world and raised many questions. The Dutch Safety Board wishes to determine the cause of the crash, for the sake of the loved ones of the victims and for society at large.”

“The initial results of the investigation point towards an external cause of the MH17 crash. More research will be necessary to determine the cause with greater precision. The Safety Board believes that additional evidence will become available for investigation in the period ahead.”

“The preliminary report issues the first findings in a ongoing investigation. From this point on, the investigation team will be working towards producing its final report. The Board aims to publish this report within one year of the date of the crash.”

Click here (http://www.onderzoeksraad.nl/uploads/fm/untitled%20folder/untitled%20folder/PB_MH17_ENG_DEF_met_opmaak.pdf) for press release in pdf

[Hervé]

I guess the only thing that can be said is that the "high energy objects" were going at supersonic speed in order to cut out communication recordings before a sonic boom could be recorded on the CVR...

... so much for Kiev's "explosive depressurization"... no data substantiating that one!


PS: Rapporten:http://www.onderzoeksraad.nl/images/pdf.png (http://www.onderzoeksraad.nl/uploads/phase-docs/701/b3923acad0ceprem-rapport-mh-17-en-interactief.pdf) 9 sep. 2014 Preliminary report - MH17 (http://www.onderzoeksraad.nl/uploads/phase-docs/701/b3923acad0ceprem-rapport-mh-17-en-interactief.pdf) DOWNLOAD (http://www.onderzoeksraad.nl/uploads/phase-docs/701/b3923acad0ceprem-rapport-mh-17-en-interactief.pdf)

[Cidersomerset]

http://rt.com/static/img/static/logo.jpg



MH17 broke up in mid-air due to external damage - Dutch preliminary report


Published time: September 09, 2014 08:06
Edited time: September 09, 2014 10:16
Get short URL


http://img.rt.com/files/news/2d/79/00/00/malaysia-airlines-probe-report2.si.jpg
A Malaysian air crash investigator works at a crash site of the Malaysia Airlines Flight MH17
near the village of Hrabove (Grabovo), Donetsk region July 24, 2014 (Reuters/Maxim Zmeyev)


The MH17 crash was a result of structural damage caused by a large number of high-energy
objects that struck the Boeing from the outside, the preliminary report into the Malaysia
Airlines disaster in Ukraine said.

“Flight MH17 with a Boeing 777-200 operated by Malaysia Airlines broke up in the air probably
as the result of structural damage caused by a large number of high-energy objects that
penetrated the aircraft from outside,” the Dutch Safety Board said in its preliminary report.

Dutch investigators added that “there are no indications” that the tragedy was triggered
“by a technical fault or by actions of the crew.”

‘We need more analysis to investigate the crash” – Malaysian minister

Malaysian Transport Minister Liow Tiong Lai said on Tuesday that more analysis was
needed to investigate the crash.

“We want to further analyze the data and the wreckage,” he said, adding that more
details were needed so that the authorities “will bring the perpetrators to justice.”

The Malaysia Airlines plane en route from Amsterdam to Kuala Lumpur with 298 people
aboard crashed in Ukraine's Donetsk region on July 17. The majority of those on the
plane – which was allegedly shot down – were citizens of the Netherlands.


Plane was ‘split into pieces during flight’

The cockpit voice recorder, the flight data recorder and data from air traffic control all
suggest that flight MH17 proceeded as normal until 13:20:03 GMT, after which it ended abruptly.

The cockpit crew made no emergency call, the radio communications with Ukrainian
air traffic control shows.


“The final calls by Ukrainian air traffic control made between 13.20:00 and 13.22:02
[GMT] remained unanswered,” the report said.


http://rt.com/files/news/2d/79/00/00/12.30.38233.jpg

Image from onderzoeksraad.nl

The plane was “split into pieces during flight,” the investigators said, based on the analysis
of the pattern of wreckage on the ground.

The Dutch investigators said that “available images show that the pieces of wreckage were
pierced in numerous places.”

The report emphasizes that investigators haven’t yet had the chance to recover the components
for forensic investigation.

However, the photos taken from the wreckage “indicated that the material around the holes
was deformed in a manner consistent with being punctured by high-energy objects,” the
report said. “The characteristics of the material deformation around the puncture holes
appear to indicate that the objects originated from the outside the fuselage.”

The fact that the plane was damaged from the outside “also explains the abrupt end to the
data registration on the recorders, the simultaneous loss of contact with air traffic control
and the aircraft's disappearance from radar,” the report says.

http://rt.com/files/news/2d/79/00/00/13.02.09.09.jpg


Part of the inside cockpit roof, indicating penetration with objects outside (Image from onderzoeksraad.nl)

The report says that the flight recorder was “found damaged but the internal memory module was intact.”

“The external damage found on the [flight data recorder] was consistent with impact damage.”

The radar data from the aircraft shows that “three commercial aircraft were in the same
Control Area” as the Malaysia Airlines plane.

“At 13.20 UTC [GMT] the distance between the closest aircraft and MH17 was approximately
30 kilometers,” the document says.

http://rt.com/files/news/2d/79/00/00/honeywell.jpg

Cockpit voice recorder. (onderzoeksraad.nl)

Dutch investigators concluded that the Malaysian airliner was flying “in unrestricted airspace above
the restricted area mentioned by the latest NOTAM [Notice to Airmen].” Commercial flights were
restricted in the area below the flight level of FL320, MH17 was flying at FL330.

Full report to be released ‘within a year of the crash’ – Dutch Safety Board

Tjibbe Joustra, chairman of the Dutch Safety Board, said that the plane tragedy in eastern Ukraine
“shocked the world and raised many questions.”

“The initial results of the investigation point towards an external cause of the MH17 crash,” he said.
“More research will be necessary to determine the cause with greater precision. The Safety Board
believes that additional evidence will become available for investigation in the period ahead.”

gCh2ZsmS_Eg

Joustra said that the Dutch Safety Board’s full report will be published in summer 2015, “within one
year of the date of the crash.”

In the meantime, the Russian Federal Aviation Agency said that the Dutch report marks the beginning
of a thorough investigation of the plane crash.

“The investigation of the crash site and the wreckage should be an important part of this work,” said
Oleg Storchevoy, the agency’s deputy head. “[We] need to investigate all the radiolocation data,
perform forensic expertise…. Without this information one can’t speak of any preliminary conclusions
concerning the tragedy.”

http://rt.com/news/186256-malaysia-airlines-probe-report/

[Cidersomerset]

http://rt.com/static/img/static/logo.jpg



MH17 broke up in mid-air due to external damage - Dutch preliminary report


Published time: September 09, 2014 08:06
Edited time: September 09, 2014 10:16
Get short URL


http://img.rt.com/files/news/2d/79/00/00/malaysia-airlines-probe-report2.si.jpg
A Malaysian air crash investigator works at a crash site of the Malaysia Airlines Flight MH17
near the village of Hrabove (Grabovo), Donetsk region July 24, 2014 (Reuters/Maxim Zmeyev)


The MH17 crash was a result of structural damage caused by a large number of high-energy
objects that struck the Boeing from the outside, the preliminary report into the Malaysia
Airlines disaster in Ukraine said.

“Flight MH17 with a Boeing 777-200 operated by Malaysia Airlines broke up in the air probably
as the result of structural damage caused by a large number of high-energy objects that
penetrated the aircraft from outside,” the Dutch Safety Board said in its preliminary report.

Dutch investigators added that “there are no indications” that the tragedy was triggered
“by a technical fault or by actions of the crew.”

‘We need more analysis to investigate the crash” – Malaysian minister

Malaysian Transport Minister Liow Tiong Lai said on Tuesday that more analysis was
needed to investigate the crash.

“We want to further analyze the data and the wreckage,” he said, adding that more
details were needed so that the authorities “will bring the perpetrators to justice.”

The Malaysia Airlines plane en route from Amsterdam to Kuala Lumpur with 298 people
aboard crashed in Ukraine's Donetsk region on July 17. The majority of those on the
plane – which was allegedly shot down – were citizens of the Netherlands.


Plane was ‘split into pieces during flight’

The cockpit voice recorder, the flight data recorder and data from air traffic control all
suggest that flight MH17 proceeded as normal until 13:20:03 GMT, after which it ended abruptly.

The cockpit crew made no emergency call, the radio communications with Ukrainian
air traffic control shows.


“The final calls by Ukrainian air traffic control made between 13.20:00 and 13.22:02
[GMT] remained unanswered,” the report said.


http://rt.com/files/news/2d/79/00/00/12.30.38233.jpg

Image from onderzoeksraad.nl

The plane was “split into pieces during flight,” the investigators said, based on the analysis
of the pattern of wreckage on the ground.

The Dutch investigators said that “available images show that the pieces of wreckage were
pierced in numerous places.”

The report emphasizes that investigators haven’t yet had the chance to recover the components
for forensic investigation.

However, the photos taken from the wreckage “indicated that the material around the holes
was deformed in a manner consistent with being punctured by high-energy objects,” the
report said. “The characteristics of the material deformation around the puncture holes
appear to indicate that the objects originated from the outside the fuselage.”

The fact that the plane was damaged from the outside “also explains the abrupt end to the
data registration on the recorders, the simultaneous loss of contact with air traffic control
and the aircraft's disappearance from radar,” the report says.

http://rt.com/files/news/2d/79/00/00/13.02.09.09.jpg


Part of the inside cockpit roof, indicating penetration with objects outside (Image from onderzoeksraad.nl)

The report says that the flight recorder was “found damaged but the internal memory module was intact.”

“The external damage found on the [flight data recorder] was consistent with impact damage.”

The radar data from the aircraft shows that “three commercial aircraft were in the same
Control Area” as the Malaysia Airlines plane.

“At 13.20 UTC [GMT] the distance between the closest aircraft and MH17 was approximately
30 kilometers,” the document says.

http://rt.com/files/news/2d/79/00/00/honeywell.jpg

Cockpit voice recorder. (onderzoeksraad.nl)

Dutch investigators concluded that the Malaysian airliner was flying “in unrestricted airspace above
the restricted area mentioned by the latest NOTAM [Notice to Airmen].” Commercial flights were
restricted in the area below the flight level of FL320, MH17 was flying at FL330.

Full report to be released ‘within a year of the crash’ – Dutch Safety Board

Tjibbe Joustra, chairman of the Dutch Safety Board, said that the plane tragedy in eastern Ukraine
“shocked the world and raised many questions.”

“The initial results of the investigation point towards an external cause of the MH17 crash,” he said.
“More research will be necessary to determine the cause with greater precision. The Safety Board
believes that additional evidence will become available for investigation in the period ahead.”

gCh2ZsmS_Eg

Joustra said that the Dutch Safety Board’s full report will be published in summer 2015, “within one
year of the date of the crash.”

In the meantime, the Russian Federal Aviation Agency said that the Dutch report marks the beginning
of a thorough investigation of the plane crash.

“The investigation of the crash site and the wreckage should be an important part of this work,” said
Oleg Storchevoy, the agency’s deputy head. “[We] need to investigate all the radiolocation data,
perform forensic expertise…. Without this information one can’t speak of any preliminary conclusions
concerning the tragedy.”

http://rt.com/news/186256-malaysia-airlines-probe-report/

[Matt P]

Did you guys hear what Simon Parkes had to say about this? In an interview with Kerry, he said the plane's passengers were infected with some bioweapon and the plan was for it to crash in a city in Russia for this virus or whatever it was to be spread all over. Russia found out but the plane couldn't be hit with a missile because that would have had the same effect. The only way to bring it down was by having it hit the ground. Simon said there were two Ukrainian jets (who is controlling them currently?) acting as chaperones and that a missile was fired just to scare them away, after which a Russian fighter or two did come in and hit the cockpit with cannon fire in order to disable the pilots and cause the crash. The evidence of holes all over the cockpit is consistent with this. Simon says Russia did in fact bring the plane down, obviously for justifiable reasons. He explains many other things that have relevance here but I would probably screw it all up...so have a listen yourselves and see what you think.

http://projectcamelotportal.com/video-library/2232-new-interview-with-simon-parkes-british-councillor

Upon hearing about the various conditions of the bodies at the crash site, I suspect this might actually have been flight 370 from a couple months ago. Of course, this is all just food for thought. I have no friggin idea!

Matt

[Cidersomerset]

MH17 penetrated from outside by hi-energy objects, broke up mid-air - probe

kwpA3mksnvE

Published on 9 Sep 2014


The MH17 crash was a result of structural damage caused by a large number of
high-energy objects that struck the Boeing from the outside, the preliminary
report into the Malaysia Airlines disaster in Ukraine said. DETAILS: http://on.rt.com/ejtt3e


=====================================================

Back to MH17 crash site: Parts still there, early probe results soon

jKjsx4-b3r8

Published on 9 Sep 2014


Dutch investigators are set to release the first results of the probe into July's tragic Malaysian
plane crash in Ukraine. RT's Paula Slier visited the site, where the plane came down.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Back to MH17 crash site: Parts still there, early probe results soon

JGMF-5K6UMk

Published on 8 Sep 2014


The ceasefire between the Ukrainian army and self-defense forces is “still shaky, but holds
the OSCE stated. The fighters are still skeptical of the peace process, but they are hoping
for the war to end. READ MORE:

[Cidersomerset]

MH17 penetrated from outside by hi-energy objects, broke up mid-air - probe

kwpA3mksnvE

Published on 9 Sep 2014


The MH17 crash was a result of structural damage caused by a large number of
high-energy objects that struck the Boeing from the outside, the preliminary
report into the Malaysia Airlines disaster in Ukraine said. DETAILS: http://on.rt.com/ejtt3e


=====================================================

Back to MH17 crash site: Parts still there, early probe results soon

jKjsx4-b3r8

Published on 9 Sep 2014


Dutch investigators are set to release the first results of the probe into July's tragic Malaysian
plane crash in Ukraine. RT's Paula Slier visited the site, where the plane came down.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[Agape]

https://uk.news.yahoo.com/flight-mh17-downed-high-energy-objects-080737223.html#6Ce1myL

Flight MH17 Downed By 'High-Energy Objects'

Crash investigators say flight MH17 was probably downed by "a large number of high-energy objects".
An initial report by the Dutch Safety Board, which is leading the investigation into the July 17 disaster, found it likely the Malaysia Airlines plane broke up in the air as a result of "structural damage", caused by the items which "penetrated the aircraft from outside".
Available images showed pieces of the aircraft fuselage were pierced in numerous places, while the pattern of wreckage on the ground, scattered over a large area, indicated it had broken up in flight.
This would also explain the abrupt end to the recording of flight data on the plane's black boxes, the loss of contact with air traffic control, and the plane's disappearance from radar.
The report said: "There are no indications that the MH17 crash was caused by a technical fault or by actions of the crew."
All 298 passengers and crew on board the plane were killed when the aircraft, which was flying from Amsterdam to Kuala Lumpur over an area in eastern Ukraine controlled by pro-Russian separatists.
Following the publication of the report, the rebels denied they had the military equipment capable of bringing down a passenger plane.....



What is 'high energy objects' ? Beam weapon ?



:(

[TargeT]

What is 'high energy objects' ? Beam weapon ?
:(

AKA shrapnel, (fast moving objects = high energy objects) its just another way to describe high kinetic energy objects or fast moving objects... basically a missile exploded near the aircraft and showered it with shrapnel (or at least that's the most probable right now).

[Billy]

What is 'high energy objects' ? Beam weapon ?
:(

AKA shrapnel, (fast moving objects = high energy objects) its just another way to describe high kinetic energy objects or fast moving objects... basically a missile exploded near the aircraft and showered it with shrapnel (or at least that's the most probable right now).

Or a fighter jet riddled it.

[Agape]

What is 'high energy objects' ? Beam weapon ?
:(

AKA shrapnel, (fast moving objects = high energy objects) its just another way to describe high kinetic energy objects or fast moving objects... basically a missile exploded near the aircraft and showered it with shrapnel (or at least that's the most probable right now).

I know that's the prevailing theory but to me 'high energy objects' sounds like something faster .

[TargeT]

What is 'high energy objects' ? Beam weapon ?
:(

AKA shrapnel, (fast moving objects = high energy objects) its just another way to describe high kinetic energy objects or fast moving objects... basically a missile exploded near the aircraft and showered it with shrapnel (or at least that's the most probable right now).

Or a fighter jet riddled it.

Hole size, inconsistency and damage done seems to strongly indicate Air to Air missile.





I know that's the prevailing theory but to me 'high energy objects' sounds like something faster .

Looks pretty "typical" nothing Atypical (except for all the official "lies" piled on top of this situation) aluminum melts at a fairly low temp, anything super high energy would leave different evidence.

[Hervé]

Now that we "know," according to that preliminary report, that there was nothing unusual along the flight, whether it be from ATC exchanges, CVR or FDR; the end result defies all statistics:



How come a SAM or AAM could disable a 4 X redundant Fly By Wire (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fly-by-wire#Redundancy) automatic system all at once... unless sabotaged?

[Agape]

[

Hole size, inconsistency and damage done seems to strongly indicate Air to Air missile.




See , and that could be about anything they want to have tested these days that would confuse the evidence ..

All that the people inside saw before it went down was probably flash of light anyway ..


Air to air missile sounds somewhat more logical to me as well.


:bowl:

[Hervé]

...

http://i1.sinaimg.cn/jc/2008-06-27/U2142P27T1D507405F3DT20080627115641.jpg
20mm canon shots from F-16 jet fighter
(SU-25s are equipped with 30mm canons)

http://i.cdnnaij.com/o/j40GTZzL25dX06xBeq0tgLvn.jpg
Shrapnel (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shrapnel_shell), i.e. "machine-gunned" as with a HANDHELD sub-machine gun (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Submachine_gun)
(assassination attempt by shrapnel bomb, target survived)

http://www.shoutwiki.com/w/images/acloserlookonsyria/9/97/Shrapnel_sample.png

http://www.guns.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/12/kimcampbell6.jpg
Surface-Air Missile (SAM) shrapnel damages... safely landed


SAVVY?

[Cidersomerset]

'Target started falling apart' MH17 radio transcript released

J66ySGDAfn0

Published on 9 Sep 2014


The report on MH17 Boeing 777 crash provides a transcript of communications
between the pilots and ground control minutes before the crash.

[Cidersomerset]

'Target started falling apart' MH17 radio transcript released

J66ySGDAfn0

Published on 9 Sep 2014


The report on MH17 Boeing 777 crash provides a transcript of communications
between the pilots and ground control minutes before the crash.

[Cidersomerset]

Poroshenko promises Donetsk, Lugansk special status inside Ukraine

JUas0rNn75I

Published on 10 Sep 2014


Kiev will not acknowledge any kind of independence of the self-proclaimed Donetsk
and Lugansk People’s Republics, Ukrainian President Petro Poroshenko told the
government. The draft law states that they will remain parts of a unitary Ukraine,
the president said.

===================================================

'E.Ukraine offensive went bad, too late for Donetsk, Lugansk 'special status'

GQmtEQXPQ90

Published on 10 Sep 2014


On the 5th day of the ceasefire in Eastern Ukraine, President Poroshenko has announced moves towards a
possible change of status for Lugansk and Donetsk republics. World affairs journalist Neil Clark believes this
'special status' deal to the regions is vague and could be used by the Ukrainian army to regroup.

==================================================


CrossTalk: West vs Russia (ft. Ray McGovern)

gEMjiTgZKyg

Published on 10 Sep 2014


A troubled relationship or a transforming international system? As the West and Russia
turn away from each other, can we expect more tensions or merely indifference? And is
this a divorce or just a long-term separation?

==================================================





Satellite Images of Alleged Russian Artillery in Ukraine Come A-Cropper

Wednesday 10th September 2014 at 08:11 By david-icke


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Washington’s seedy propaganda campaign

Satellite Images of Alleged Russian Artillery in Ukraine Come A-Cropper

Tue, 09/09/2014 - 11:05
by: Dave Lindorff


‘In the ongoing propaganda campaign mounted by the Obama administration to
claim that Russia has “invaded” Ukraine from the east, it offered up some grainy
black-and-white satellite images purporting to show heavy Russian military
equipment inside the Ukraine.’

I earlier noted how unlikely it was that heavy mobile artillery pieces would be set
up in a perfect line in what appeared to be a field of crops, with, as the government
claimed, cannons aimed towards Ukrainian positions in toward the west. As I
pointed out, there was no sign of piles of ammunition alongside these “units” as we
routinely see in closeups of heavy mobile artillery -- for example in photos of IDF
pieces positioned outside of Gaza. I also noted the unlikelihood that such
equipment would have been set up in an open field, unprotected by trees or other
cover, and lined up to make for easy targeting by enemy artillery or air attack.

Now an alert reader from the agricultural state of Texas (Laredo, TX to be precise),
has sent a note suggesting out that what the supposedly incriminating images most
likely show are combines in a field of grain or some other crop planted in rows. He
sent along photos showing harvesters, which of course feature a long,
straight “cannon-like” tube which is used to shoot the harvested grain up and into
an accompanying truck to be hauled off to market or to a storage silo.

As he points out, these harvesters are typically run in groups which often work in
parallel, an explanation that does a much better job of explaining the precision
alignment of the machines visible in the US government’s image than do mobile artillery units.

Now maybe the released satellite images do show Russian artillery, but given
Washington's extensive history of abject lying in the interest of promoting its war
agenda (think Gulf of Tonkin, Iraq WMDs and mobil poison gas factories, Assad gas
attacks in Damascus, etc.), it's worth taking the claim with a "grain" of...well, in
this case actual grain.





http://thiscantbehappening.net/sites/default/files/images/combines.preview.jpg
Combines or cannons? From 100 miles up, Washington's 'clear evidence' of Russian
heavy artillery in the Ukraine starts looking a little 'corny'. Are these mobile heavy
artillery pieces or harvesting combines in a field of maize

http://thiscantbehappening.net/node/2449

[Hervé]

Well, well, well:



The most interesting news came from the chairman of the Dutch safety board. He explained to the press that metal fragments (using the word 'shrapnel' would imply missile parts) were recovered from the bodies of the pilots and these fragments were now being investigated whether these are parts of the airplanes or something else.

... gonna have to wait over 1/2 a year now to get that question answered...

[Cidersomerset]

http://static.bbci.co.uk/frameworks/barlesque/2.66.0/desktop/3.5/img/blq-blocks_grey_alpha.png


9 September 2014 Last updated at 12:48

MH17 crash: Dutch investigators' first findingsLatest

http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/77485000/jpg/_77485340_mh17_debris_satellite_624.jpg
Aircraft debris field and recovered parts identified on plane Parts of the plane were
found 8km (5 miles) from the main debris site



Dutch investigators say the damage to Malaysia Airlines flight MH17, which crashed
in eastern Ukraine on 17 July, suggests it was pierced by a large number of objects
from outside the plane. They reveal that a few minutes before the plane went
down, the pilots asked to move a few nautical miles north of their flight path
because of weather conditions.The Dutch Safety Board says its preliminary report
was based on the contents of the flight and cockpit data recorders, other
communication with the plane, as well as forensic examination of the wreckage
where possible.

These are its key findings.

MH17 was flying in unrestricted airspace, its engines running normally at 293 knots
at 33,000ft (10,000m) cruise altitude

Three other commercial planes were flying over the same airspace at around the
same time - the closest 30km (18.5 miles) away

12:53GMT: Dnipropetrovsk air traffic control (ATC) asks MH17 to climb to 35,000ft
according to flight plan and to avoid other planes

http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/77471000/jpg/_77471849_f411ca23-7525-40b0-af04-d155fcd509b8.jpg
Diagram of planes in the area Three other commercial planes were in the same
airspace at the time of the crash. MH17 says it is unable to comply and ATC agrees
it can stay at 33,000ft; other traffic climbs to 35,000ft

13:00: MH17 asks to divert 20 nautical miles to left, due to weather; ATC agrees
but refuses permission to climb to 34,000ftIsolated thunderstorms were apparent in
the area with some lightning strikes south-west of Donetsk

13:19:53: MH17 flying 3.6 nautical miles north of centreline of airway
ATC asks MH17 to alter route to "proceed direct" to waypoint Romeo November
Delta due to other traffic

13:19:56: Last MH17 crew transmission: "Romeo November Delta, Malaysian One Seven" - confirming flight path

13:19:59: Transmission ends

13:20:03: Flight data and cockpit recordings end abruptly
Dnipropetrovsk ATC contacted several times but with no answer.No aural warnings
from crew or alerts of plane system malfunctions; no distress messages received
Likely that damage resulted in loss of structural integrity of aircraft, leading to
break-up in the airForward parts of plane found near Petropavlivka closest to last
flight data broadcastCockpit window contained numerous small puncture holes
suggesting small objects entered from above level of cockpit floor.Cockpit floor -
Source NBAAI A picture of MH17's damaged cockpit floor Damage to forward
section indicates plane penetrated by large number of high energy objects from
outside Wings, engines, fuselage found at main wreckage site 8.5km to east of last
recorded position, around Grabove

Aircraft wreckage scattered over approximate area of 10km by 5km, indicating the plane broke up in the air.

No evidence found of manipulation of flight and data recorders, handed by rebels to Malaysian official in Donetsk

No indication of technical or operational issues with plane or crew

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-29122816

[Cidersomerset]

=================================================


http://static.bbci.co.uk/frameworks/barlesque/2.66.0/desktop/3.5/img/blq-blocks_grey_alpha.png

12 September 2014 Last updated at 16:18

MH17 crash: Investigation focuses on '25 metal shards'Debris from MH17, 9 Sept 14

http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/77557000/jpg/_77557704_77557703.jpg
Access to the crash site has been hampered by fighting between the rebels and Ukrainian forces




The investigation into the downing of Malaysia Airlines flight MH17 is searching for clues in
25 pieces of metal recovered from bodies and debris.

Dutch officials heading the inquiry say they want to establish whether the iron fragments
could prove the theory that a ground-to-air missile struck the plane.

Flight MH17 came down over eastern Ukraine on 17 July, killing all 298 people aboard,
mostly Dutch citizens.

The investigation has been hampered by continued fighting near the crash site.

Detectives are relying heavily on forensic samples taken from bodies and baggage, as
well as satellite data, interviews with witnesses, computer reconstructions, online
evidence and intercepted communications.

Flight MH17 was flying from Amsterdam to Kuala Lumpur when it crashed in rebel-held
territory in eastern Ukraine.

Ukraine and Western countries have accused pro-Russian separatists of downing the
plane with a surface-to-air missile, supplied by Russia.


http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/77557000/jpg/_77557892_77557891.jpg

Rebel at crash site, 9 September 14 Pro-Russian rebels have rejected claims that they brought down the plane

Russia and the rebels have denied the allegation, instead blaming the Ukrainian government
for the attack. Russia is playing no role in the criminal investigation.

Intercepted conversation

At a press conference in Rotterdam on Friday, Fred Westerbeke, chief prosecutor for the
Dutch national prosecution service, said that the investigation was particularly interested
in the origin of 25 pieces of iron, drawn from 500 samples.

"The most likely scenario was that the plane was shot down from the ground," he said.

"If we can establish that this iron is coming from such a missile, that is important
information of course," he said. "At this moment we don't know that, but that is
what we are investigating."

a piece of the MH-17 fuselage The head of Emirates airlines says some carriers appeared
to know there were anti-aircraft missiles in Ukraine and were avoiding the country's airspace
Mr Westerbeke said any future prosecution would need to pinpoint where the missile
was fired from, and who controlled that area.

Patricia Zorko, of the Dutch national police, said the investigation was also examining
the recording of an intercepted conversation discussing the missile attack.

"The conversation is between rebels who allegedly shot down the plane, but we really
need to authenticate it," she said.

A Dutch safety board report said this week that the plane appeared to have been
struck by a number of small fragments - again supporting the theory that a
surface-to-air missile was involved.

The report ruled out mechanical failure or pilot error.




http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-29180887

[Cidersomerset]

http://static.bbci.co.uk/frameworks/barlesque/2.64.0/desktop/3.5/img/blq-blocks_grey_alpha.png

12 September 2014 Last updated at 13:24

Airline boss suggests Malaysian MH17 tragedy could have been avoidedRichard Westcott
By Richard Westcott

BBC Transport Correspondent

a piece of the MH-17 fuselage

http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/77541000/jpg/_77541833_77541832.jpg

Some airlines appeared to know there were anti-aircraft missiles in Ukraine and were
avoiding the country's airspace, Sir Tim Clark has said


The boss of Emirates has suggested that airlines would have avoided flying over
Ukraine long before flight MH17 crashed, if information about missiles in the area
had been passed on.

Sir Tim Clark told the BBC there had been evidence of weapons for weeks.

But he claimed those in the know didn't share it with most of the carriers flying
across the country.

If the airlines had all been told, he suggests, the industry would probably have
by-passed the danger zone.

And he added that some carriers did appear to know because they were avoiding
the area, but they didn't share the information.

Continue reading the main story
“
Start Quote
We have a concern that that information was known by certain stakeholders”
End Quote
Sir Tim Clark

President, Emirates

It's widely believed that a missile downed Malaysian flight MH17 on 17th July,
killing all 298 people on board.

Planes had been cleared to fly in the area as long as they stayed above a certain
height, and a report earlier this week highlighted the fact that three other large
passenger jets were in the same area at roughly the same time as the Malaysian flight.

Sir Tim said: "There was evidence that these missiles had been on site, in
situ for a number of weeks beforehand.

"Emirates did not know of that fact, and I don't think many others did. Had
we known that, we would probably have reacted in a manner that would have
seen a complete avoidance of Ukrainian airspace, probably as an industry.

"We have a concern that information was known by certain stakeholders...
and should have been passed... at least to the industry, to the organisations
that regulate the industry.

"We understand now that certain carriers were aware of that and had
already taken avoidance action."

British Airways was among several airlines that had been avoiding Ukraine
for weeks. But in a recent BBC interview, the overall boss of the company,
Willie Walsh, said that decision was based on information that was publicly
available at the time.

Sir Tim is calling for an information "clearing house" to be set up, that can
warn all airlines, quickly, if there are any new threats in an area.

At the moment it's down to each individual airline to decide whether to travel
over a war zone, based on information from local air traffic control and from
their own government. And carriers aren't obliged to pass on the information
to each other.

Airport expansion

Sir Tim, who is one of the most respected voices in the industry, also says that a
"Yes" vote for Scotland would heighten the need for a new runway in the south of England.

Although he made clear that he didn't want to get involved in the politics of the
decision, he told us: "Clearly, if they do become independent they will develop
their own civil aviation strategies, they will probably develop Glasgow, Edinburgh
and Aberdeen. But therefore there is more impetus required for the remaining
parts of the UK to develop their aviation strategy, to fill a gap."

Like so many others in the business world, the Emirates' president says that
doing nothing is not an option, be it expansion at Heathrow, Gatwick, or even
at the Mayor of London, Boris Johnson's preferred location, in the Thames Estuary.

After four decades in the business Sir Tim says he's seen airport expansion
plans come and go, but there really does seem to be an urgency to do
something this time,

"I witnessed the Maplin Sands episodes in the 70s. Clearly there wasn't a
buy-in to the level that I believe there is today. When you see the likes of
Mayor Johnson, you may not agree with his Estuary project... the fact is
that a person like this, who is politically, extremely powerful, he has
championed this cause, he has raised the profile of the need for London
and the South East to have more access."

Maplin Sands was another proposal to build a floating airport in the Thames
Estuary. They'd even begun building the place, but it was swiftly ditched in
1974 by the new Labour government in the wake of the oil crisis.

Finally, Sir Tim made the point that the UK needs to grow all of its regional
airports too, including Manchester, Birmingham, Newcastle and Cardiff,
which he described as having great potential.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-29170560


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28 July 2014 Last updated at 08:25

MH17 crash: The 298 who perished

All 298 people on board a Malaysia Airlines plane lost their lives after the jet
crashed into a field in eastern Ukraine, close to the border with Russia. Flight MH17
from Amsterdam to Kuala Lumpur was travelling over the conflict-hit region on 17
July when it plummeted to the ground.

Photos of some of the victims.....

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-28482176

[Hervé]

Dutch police recover metal fragments from MH17 bodies (http://www.nltimes.nl/2014/09/12/dutch-police-recover-metal-fragments-mh17-bodies/)

Posted on Sep 12, 2014 (http://www.nltimes.nl/2014/09/) by Janene Van Jaarsveldt (http://www.nltimes.nl/author/jvanjaarsveldt/)


http://www.nltimes.nl/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/BvFsLouIcAEGHtC.png (http://www.nltimes.nl/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/BvFsLouIcAEGHtC.png)


Wreckage of flight MH17 (Source: Twitter/@Yahoo)


One part of the forensic investigation into the MH17 plane crash in the Ukraine focuses on 25 metal fragments that were found on bodies of passengers and baggage.

The investigation is examining where these particles came from. From the aircraft itself, from luggage or from a source external to the aircraft such as the missile, says Patricia Zorko of the national police Friday during a press conference. Zorko is leading the criminal investigation done by the police and justice after the disaster. According to Zorko currently about 500 physical traces have been secured, including 25 metal fragments.

Chief prosecutor Fred Westerbeke of the national prosecutor says that the Public Prosecutor is very willing to prosecute the parties responsible for the MH17 plane crash in the Netherlands. The Public Prosecutor in the Netherlands is leading the international crime investigation into those responsible for the disaster.

The Public Prosecutor began the investigation in order to identify and prosecute the culprits immediately after the disaster. At the start of the investigation police and justice considered four scenarios: an accident, a terrorist attack from inside the plane, an attack from the ground or an attack from the air.

According to Weterbeke a missile fired from the ground seems like the most likely scenario as the cause of the crash.


*********************************************


Look at that wording:

a terrorist attack from inside the plane... anything but any mention of a bomb or sabotage of the plane before departure...

... such a careful wording is almost an admission of guilt since most MSM consumers fail to connect "n-Letters" agencies and "Terrorists" so that, ultimately, it can be blamed on some cave dwelling, hibernating creature...

[Operator]

---

Look at that wording:

a terrorist attack from inside the plane... anything but any mention of a bomb or sabotage of the plane before departure...

... such a careful wording is almost an admission of guilt since most MSM consumers fail to connect "n-Letters" agencies and "Terrorists" so that, ultimately, it can be blamed on some cave dwelling, hibernating creature...




I've sent in a comment on an article in a Dutch newspaper last Monday. I took care it was according to all their rules in order
to not get rejected. I mentioned Schiphol as start of investigation and usage of a bomb again.

They could not reject my comments, instead they delayed approval till Friday(!) and buried my comments between other old ones.
How much more proof do we need that the real cause is anxiously covered up?

[sigma6]

Benjamin Fulford Sept 8, 2014


Meanwhile, the Nazionist attack on the Ukraine is going badly, a Russian government source says. “The Ukraine is going broke, the army on their Eastern front are defecting because of lack of food, ammunition, and pay. Their central government, likewise, is beginning to collapse because of a lack of funding,” he says. All Russian President Vladimir Putin has to do is wait because winter is approaching and they will have no gas, he notes. Germany, which also needs Russian gas to get through the winter, is increasingly anxious to settle the Ukranian crisis, he added.

Putin, for his part, needs to make sure people friendly to him seize control of the shores of the Sea of Azov between Russia and the Ukraine. This is to make sure Russia controls the giant gas deposits there that are one of the real causes for this crisis. That is why fighting is still reported along the shores of that sea despite a supposed cease fire.

The 67 world leaders gathered at the NATO summit held last week were unable to come up with any real solution to their imploding Ukrainian gambit, according to MI5 sources. The best their armaments company sponsors could come up with was to get them to use their new fake cold war with Russia as an excuse to build arms stashes all over the world for a “rapid reaction force.” They also all publicly said they will not send weapons the Nazionist regime in the Ukraine.

The governments of the US and Europe, however, cannot afford to go on a weapons buying splurge these days though because their economies are imploding. The IMF, formerly the apex of world financial power, is bankrupt. The Federal Reserve Board, the European Central Bank and the Bank of Japan are also in a panic because their fiat fairy dust money sprinkling is not producing the magic results they hoped for.

The EU has actually put negative interest rates on bank accounts to try to force companies to spend it.

Negative interest rates? Did I just step through Alice's looking Glass? Huh??
say that again... Negative Interest rates... Maybe next they will open a Walmart and start paying people to consume goods... wouldn't that be cool!

[Hervé]

Lavrov hopes the world will learn the truth about the Boeing crash in Ukraine
(http://en.itar-tass.com/russia/749429)
Russia (http://en.itar-tass.com/russia) September 13, 15:50 UTC+4

Russia is surprised by a very calm tone of the report on the investigation of accident, he said


http://videocdn.itar-tass.com/width/744_b12f2926/tass/m2/en/uploads/i/20140913/1061262.jpg
© ITAR-TASS/EPA/ROBERT GHEMENT


MOSCOW, September 13 /ITAR-TASS/. Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov hopes that the world will ultimately learn the truth about the Boeing 777 crash in Ukraine.

“I hope that we are going to learn this truth but that does not depend on me,” Lavrov told TV Tsentr's “Pravo Znat” (The Right to Know) programme.

“Russia, its political leadership and the Ministry of Foreign Affairs should constantly remind the world of the need to do that. It is not accidental that I cited the U.N. Security Council resolution (whose adoption we actively supported). What’s written in it must be implemented by all. Such is the nature of this document,” the Russian foreign minister said.

“All the rest is in the hands of those who have been assigned with the task to conduct this investigation,” Lavrov added.

He said that Malaysia’s Defense Minister Hishammuddin Hussein had visited Russia. "He has been to Ukraine and the Netherlands and is planning to visit Australia,” the Russian foreign minister went on to say.

According to him, the Malaysians “want to get our assessments because they know about the preliminary conclusions the Russian Defense Ministry announced at a briefing on July 21; they want to discuss a list of questions formulated by the Federal Air Transport Agency and talk to experts.

“We welcome this interest because there are no grounds to refuse from getting comprehensible answers or at least from discussing the questions which we have posed but which have so far remained unanswered,” Lavrov emphasized.

Russia is preparing a new set of questions, Lavrov said.

“International experts spent three weeks in Kiev, talking with the Ukrainian authorities. No answers were prepared in response to the questions raised after the catastrophe by the Russian Defence Ministry and the Air Transportation Agency. Our representative, who is a member of the international team of experts, is pointing out these ‘oddities’,” Lavrov told TV Tsentr’s Pravo Znat programme (The Right to Know).

“We are preparing another set of questions from the Russian aviation authorities to identify issues that require urgent attention. On the whole, as I was told by experts who know how such investigations are conducted, many things that must have been done were not done. I don’t know why. Maybe some benefited from the situation where hysterical accusations were made against militias and Russia immediately after the accident,” the minister said.

“All front pages of newspapers and primetime on television, the Internet were full of that. Now that this ‘propaganda foam’ has been removed, some may not be so eager to investigate the actual causes of the accident,” he said.

“This is not our approach. We are probably the only [country] who keep reminding [the world] that there is U.N. Security Council Resolution 2166, which I mentioned before and which calls for an immediate cessation of fire in the area of the crash so that experts could get access. It also says that the investigation must be thorough, international, transparent and accountable,” Lavrov said.

“As for the international nature [of the investigation], there seems to be a group of experts under the ICAO aegis, and the organisation is taking steps to begin multilateral discussions, but there is neither transparency nor accountability,” he said.

“I am not saying that the U.N. Security Council should conduct the investigation, but it set forth political requirements that match the acuteness of the tragedy and its perception in the countries whose citizens were aboard the plane and the international community as a whole, for it was a commercial plane that was downed,” Lavrov said.

Russia is surprised by “a very calm tone” of the report on the investigation of the Malaysia Airlines Flight 17 accident and by its slow pace, Lavrov said.

The Dutch Security Council’s report stated that the plane had fallen into pieces in midair presumably as a result of structural damage caused by external impact from numerous high-energy objects.

“The report surprised us and even our specialists who understand these terms… mainly because despite so much fuss around this tragedy its tone is very calm and the work is going unhurriedly and leisurely. There have been no calls for resuming the work of experts at the crash site.

There have been no attempts to go out there, collect the pieces and see how the whole plane looked like, and no one ever spoke about this out loud,” the minister told TV Tsentr’s Pravo Znat programme (The Right to Know).

“There were many tales about Buks [surface-to-air missile systems],” Lavrov said, commenting on numerous media reports claiming that the system was used to down the plane.

He said such allegations had been refuted. “They showed a Buk with a serial number that was moving around in the area controlled by Kiev’s army. And there are many other [alleged] facts that are not just far-fetched but actually a blatant lie,” Lavrov said.

[Hervé]

Malaysian Flight MH17 crash analysis, by The Russian Union of Engineers (http://vineyardsaker.blogspot.fr/2014/09/malaysian-flight-mh17-crash-analysis-by.html)

Thursday, September 18, 2014


The original version of this post was published on the Oceania Saker Blog (http://www.vineyardsaker.co.nz/2014/09/18/malaysian-flight-mh17-crash-analysis-by-the-russian-union-of-engineers/) who spearheaded the effort to translate this most important document proving, if needed, that one can be down under and yet at the very top at the same time!

The Saker
-------
Malaysian Flight MH17 crash analysis, by The Russian Union of Engineers

This is an excellent detailed analysis of the MH17 tragedy by the Russian Union of Engineers which quite frankly illustrates how heavily censored the Dutch “report” is.

We will let you digest this report and come to your own conclusion, which in all likelihood will explain the infamous high velocity projectiles whitewash pumped out by the western “press”.

This review was undertaken by experts who not only know the subject matter but have objectively presented evidence that must be considered with the legitimacy that is inherent to it. Here is the overall description of the “Analytical Group” from the report:
A group of experts from the Russian Union of engineers was convened to analyze the situation, including reserve officers with experience in the use of anti-aircraft missile systems, as well as pilots having experience with aircraft weapons.This problem was also discussed at a meeting of the Academy of Geopolitical Problems, where many variants were tested and discussed again. In the course of their analysis the experts used materials derived from public sources, found in the media. The situation was also analyzed using a computer simulation of the Su-25. You can download the English version of the report here. (http://www.vineyardsaker.co.nz/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/MH17_Report_Russian_Union_of_Engineers_EN_Oceania_Saker.docx)

The original Russian version of the report is here. (http://www.vineyardsaker.co.nz/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/MH17_Report_Russian_Union_of_Engineers_RU_Original.docx)
[note: the links above point to documents in the proprietary M$ DOCX format. For those who, like myself might prefer the free ODT or PDF format, I have made them available here (https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0ByibNV3SiUoock9qVE5xWGtJSjA&usp=sharing). The Saker]Official statement by the Russian Union of Engineers:
(please press on the 'cc' button to see the English subtitles)


r7puNlaX0s0

Special mention, thanks and much gratitude goes to Alice, Gideon & Katya for their wonderful effort at such short notice.

Disclaimer:

We have translated the text to the best of our abilities and where unsure have included the original Russian. Additionally, the original Russian report is available for download for your reference. Please distribute freely with acknowledgement.

AE
Posted by VINEYARDSAKER: at 13:04 (http://vineyardsaker.blogspot.fr/2014/09/malaysian-flight-mh17-crash-analysis-by.html)

[Cidersomerset]

Dutch MH17 Investigation Omits US ‘Intel’

Saturday 20th September 2014 at 11:28 By david-icke

http://www.davidicke.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/get-attachment-5361-587x330.jpg

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The Activist Post.....

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-6O-QCe67Uzo/VBwzkk_GrVI/AAAAAAAAgAY/CUHwwe2JFwE/s1600/mh_17_22.transformed-300x219.jpg



‘The absence of America’s so-called “intelligence” regarding the downing of Malaysia Airlines MH17
over Ukraine in a 34-page Dutch Safety Board preliminary report raises serious questions about the
credibility and legitimacy of both America’s political agenda, and all agencies, organizations, and
political parties currently behind it.

The report titled, “Preliminary Report: Crash involving Malaysia Airlines Boeing 777-200 flight MH17″ (.pdf),
cites a wide variety of evidence in its attempt to determine the cause of flight MH17′s crash and to prevent
similar accidents or incidents from occurring again in the future. Among this evidence includes the cockpit
voice recorder (CVR), the flight data recorder (FDR), analysis of recorded air traffic control (ATC) surveillance
data and radio communication, analysis of the meteorological circumstances, forensic examination of the
wreckage (if recovered and possible foreign objects if found), results of the pathological investigation, and
analysis of the in-flight break up sequence.’

Read more: Dutch MH17 Investigation Omits US 'Intel'

http://www.activistpost.com/2014/09/dutch-mh17-investigation-omits-us-intel.html

[Hervé]

On the other hand, regarding that same report:

Dutch MH17 Investigation Omits US “Intel” (http://journal-neo.org/2014/09/19/dutch-mh17-investigation-omits-us-intel/)



http://journal-neo.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/mh_17_22.transformed-300x219.jpg (http://journal-neo.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/mh_17_22.transformed.jpg)


The absence of America’s so-called “intelligence” regarding the downing of Malaysia Airlines MH17 over Ukraine in a 34 page Dutch Safety Board preliminary report raises serious questions about the credibility and legitimacy of both America’s political agenda, and all agencies, organizations, and political parties currently behind it.

The report titled, “Preliminary Report: Crash involving Malaysia Airlines Boeing 777-200 flight MH17″ (.pdf) (http://www.onderzoeksraad.nl/uploads/phase-docs/701/b3923acad0ceprem-rapport-mh-17-en-interactief.pdf), cites a wide variety of evidence in its attempt to determine the cause of flight MH17′s crash and to prevent similar accidents or incidents from occurring again in the future. Among this evidence includes the cockpit voice recorder (CVR), the flight data recorder (FDR), analysis of recorded air traffic control (ATC) surveillance data and radio communication, analysis of the meteorological circumstances, forensic examination of the wreckage (if recovered and possible foreign objects if found), results of the pathological investigation, and analysis of the in-flight break up sequence.

Satellite images are referenced in regards to analyzing the crash site after the disaster, however, no where in the report is mentioned any evidence whatsoever of satellite images of missile launchers, intelligence from the United States regarding missile launches, or any information or evidence at all in any regard suggesting a missile had destroyed MH17. In fact, the report concludes by stating:
This report is preliminary. The information must necessarily be regarded as tentative and subject to alteration or correction if additional evidence becomes available. Further work will at least include the following areas of interest to substantiate the factual information regarding:


detailed analyses of data, including CVR, FDR and other sources, recorded onboard the aircraft;
detailed analyses of recorded ATC surveillance data and radio communication;
detailed analyses of the meteorological circumstances;
forensic examination of wreckage if recovered and possible foreign objects, if found;
results of the pathological investigation;
analyses of the in-flight break up sequence;
assessment of the operator’s and State of Occurrence’s management of flight safety over a region of conflict or high security risk;
any other areas that are identified during the investigation.

With the black boxes in hand and a wealth of data from multiple sources both onboard the aircraft and from the ground in both Ukraine and Russia, the Dutch Safety Board was still hesitant to draw any conclusions and insisted that none be jumped to.

The report specifically mentions information collected from Russia, including air traffic control and radar data – both of which were publicly shared by Russia in the aftermath of the disaster (http://landdestroyer.blogspot.com/2014/07/mh17-show-tell-its-wests-turn.html). The report also cites data collected from Ukraine air traffic controllers. The United States however, apart from providing technical information about the aircraft itself considering it was manufactured in the US, provided absolutely no data in any regard according to the report.


Missing US Intel Points to Fabrications



http://journal-neo.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/photoshopped-mh17-mh370-government-300x168.jpg (http://journal-neo.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/photoshopped-mh17-mh370-government.jpg)


Had the US actually possessed any credible information to substantiate its claims that MH17 was shot down by a missile, such evidence surely would have been submitted to and included in the Dutch Safety Board’s preliminary reporting. That it is predictably missing confirms what commentators, analysts, and politicians around the world had long since suspected – the West’s premature conclusions regarding MH17′s demise were driven by a political agenda, not a factually based search for the truth. The evidence that MH17 was shot down by a missile as the West insisted is missing because it never existed in the first place.

That the Dutch Safety Board possesses such a vast amount of information but is still unable to draw anything but the most tentative conclusions, exposes the alleged certainty of Western pundits and politicians in the hours and days after MH17′s loss as an utterly irresponsible, politically motivated, exploitation of tragedy at best, and at worst, exposing the West – NATO in particular – as possible suspects in a crime they clearly stood the most to benefit from.


Fabrications Establish Motive
In the wake of the MH17 tragedy, the West would rush through a series of sanctions against Russia as well as justify further military aid for the regime in Kiev, Ukraine and the literal Neo-Nazi militant battalions serving its pro-Western agenda amid a brutal civil war raging in the country’s eastern most provinces. With sanctions in hand, and the war raging on in earnest, the MH17 disaster dropped entirely out of Western narratives (http://journal-neo.org/2014/08/05/interest-in-mh17-fades-as-sanctions-war-edge-closer/) as if it never occurred. Surely if the West had solid evidence implicating eastern Ukrainian rebels and/or Russia, the world would never have heard the end of the MH17 disaster until the truth was fully aired before the public.

When Dutch investigators published their preliminary report, the West merely reiterated its original claims, simply imposing their contradictory nature upon the report – most likely believing the public would never actually read its 34 pages.

For example, Reuters in a report titled, “Malaysia: Dutch report suggests MH-17 shot down from ground (http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/09/09/us-ukraine-crisis-mh17-investigation-idUSKBN0H40LM20140909),” would brazenly claim:
Malaysia Airlines flight MH17 broke apart over Ukraine due to impact from a large number of fragments, the Dutch Safety Board said on Tuesday, in a report that Malaysia’s prime minister and several experts said suggested it was shot down from the ground.
The title of Reuters’ propaganda piece directly contradicts its first paragraph which reveals “experts,” not the actual Dutch Safety Board report, claimed it was “shot down from the ground,” while the report itself says nothing of the sort. The experts cited by Reuters in fact had no association whatsoever with the preliminary report and instead are the same mainstay of cherry picked commentators the West constantly defers to while building up and perpetuating utterly fabricated narratives to advance its agenda globally.

The lesson to be learned from the MH17 disaster is that real investigations and their subsequent conclusions take time – weeks or even months. Anyone drawing immediate conclusions within hours or days after an event like the MH17 disaster are exploiting tragedy at best, and at worst implicate themselves as suspects having created it in the first place to serve as impetus for further chaos, conflict, and confusion.

Those incapable of resisting the need to jump to conclusions are those who are least suitable to lead. The United States, United Kingdom, and the European Union have proven beyond a shadow of a doubt that they are at best tasteless, irresponsible, politically motivated exploiters of human tragedy, and at worst, the prime suspects of a heinous act of mass murder aimed at perpetuating their agenda of war and carnage in Ukraine and beyond.

Tony Cartalucci, Bangkok-based geopolitical researcher and writer, especially for the online magazine “ (http://journal-neo.org/)New Eastern Outlook” (http://journal-neo.org/).
First appeared: http://journal-neo.org/2014/09/19/dutch-mh17-investigation-omits-us-intel/


*******************************************


I mentioned earlier a statistical improbability:


Now that we "know," according to that preliminary report, that there was nothing unusual along the flight, whether it be from ATC exchanges, CVR or FDR; the end result defies all statistics:


How come a SAM or AAM could disable a 4 X redundant Fly By Wire (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fly-by-wire#Redundancy) automatic system all at once... unless sabotaged?



Both CVR and FDR shutdown at the same time which implies that the power to both got cut off at the same time and, although I do not yet know the configuration of a 777 power connection to these devices, I suspect some redundancy for these as well, I would deem this to be another statistical miracle of a winning lottery ticket!

Especially since there are as yet no evidence for 20-30 mm fighter-jet's cannon gunning (see this post (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?73055-Malaysian-Plane-MH17-shot-down-with-over-295-on-board.-But-by-who&p=875061&viewfull=1#post875061) <---) which would also involve alternate incendiary-explosive rounds to compare with lack of traces of fire from pieces of the cockpit (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?73055-Malaysian-Plane-MH17-shot-down-with-over-295-on-board.-But-by-who&p=859679&viewfull=1#post859679)...

[Cidersomerset]

NewsTeam: MH17 tragedy brings back Ukraine to headlines (E30)

ljPF_dglBw8


Published on 21 Sep 2014


Seven RT correspondents. Seven of the biggest news stories around the world.
In News Team, an award-winning documentary crew traverses the globe, keeping
up with the channel’s leading reporters as they cover the stand-off in Ukraine,
the war in Syria, and the machinations in the EU’s corridors of power.

News Team is not just a privileged view into how the news is made, but also
provides unflinching insight into the personal lives of those who make it. After
watching News Team, no RT broadcast will ever seem the same.

The 20-part series was independently filmed by Emmy-nominated Josh Silberman.
Named Producer of the Year by the Producers’ Guild of America in 2011, Silberman
has been a key figure on leading US shows Fear Factor, America’s Got Talent, and
Dancing with the Stars. He has also produced acclaimed extreme series Deadliest
Catch and Ice Road Truckers, but says News Team is the most “extreme, real
and unpredictable” show he has ever been a part of.

RT LIVE http://rt.com/on-air

[Cidersomerset]

This report is similar to above post......

Dutch MH17 Investigation Omits US ‘Intel’

Saturday 20th September 2014 at 11:28 By david-icke

http://www.davidicke.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/get-attachment-5361-587x330.jpg

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The Activist Post.....

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-6O-QCe67Uzo/VBwzkk_GrVI/AAAAAAAAgAY/CUHwwe2JFwE/s1600/mh_17_22.transformed-300x219.jpg



‘The absence of America’s so-called “intelligence” regarding the downing of Malaysia Airlines MH17
over Ukraine in a 34-page Dutch Safety Board preliminary report raises serious questions about the
credibility and legitimacy of both America’s political agenda, and all agencies, organizations, and
political parties currently behind it.

The report titled, “Preliminary Report: Crash involving Malaysia Airlines Boeing 777-200 flight MH17″ (.pdf),
cites a wide variety of evidence in its attempt to determine the cause of flight MH17′s crash and to prevent
similar accidents or incidents from occurring again in the future. Among this evidence includes the cockpit
voice recorder (CVR), the flight data recorder (FDR), analysis of recorded air traffic control (ATC) surveillance
data and radio communication, analysis of the meteorological circumstances, forensic examination of the
wreckage (if recovered and possible foreign objects if found), results of the pathological investigation, and
analysis of the in-flight break up sequence.’

Read more: Dutch MH17 Investigation Omits US 'Intel'

http://www.activistpost.com/2014/09/dutch-mh17-investigation-omits-us-intel.html

[Cidersomerset]

This is a interesting doc/article of the RT news team response to the initial
breaking reports of the attack on the plane and the response of the
journalism team and how the investigative journalist tries to get to
the crash site, and shows his fears , anxiety and professionalism ........

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


NewsTeam: MH17 tragedy brings back Ukraine to headlines (E30)

ljPF_dglBw8


Published on 21 Sep 2014


Seven RT correspondents. Seven of the biggest news stories around the world.
In News Team, an award-winning documentary crew traverses the globe, keeping
up with the channel’s leading reporters as they cover the stand-off in Ukraine,
the war in Syria, and the machinations in the EU’s corridors of power.

News Team is not just a privileged view into how the news is made, but also
provides unflinching insight into the personal lives of those who make it. After
watching News Team, no RT broadcast will ever seem the same.

The 20-part series was independently filmed by Emmy-nominated Josh Silberman.
Named Producer of the Year by the Producers’ Guild of America in 2011, Silberman
has been a key figure on leading US shows Fear Factor, America’s Got Talent, and
Dancing with the Stars. He has also produced acclaimed extreme series Deadliest
Catch and Ice Road Truckers, but says News Team is the most “extreme, real
and unpredictable” show he has ever been a part of.

RT LIVE http://rt.com/on-air

[Cidersomerset]

Theres a old British saying that is dated now due to more
modern media , and health and safety ,but the theme
is the same.....

' Yesterdays news is tomorrows fish & chip wrapper '



https://c1.staticflickr.com/3/2006/2534546426_790545bbf0_b.jpg

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

This is a very good report, and shows the west/Ukraine psyop failed and
they are moving on to ISIL and the middle East. Though it does not
mean the NATO/RUSSIA goading has finished.....





Malaysian Flight MH17 crash analysis, by The Russian Union of Engineers

Thursday, September 18, 2014
The original version of this post was published on the Oceania Saker Blog who
spearheaded the effort to translate this most important document proving, if
needed, that one can be down under and yet at the very top at the same time!
The Saker
-------
Malaysian Flight MH17 crash analysis, by The Russian Union of Engineers
r7puNlaX0s0

[Cidersomerset]

From main thread.....http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?73055-Malaysian-Plane-MH17-shot-down-with-over-295-on-board.-But-by-who&p=879680#post879680



Re: Malaysian Plane MH17 shot down with over 295 on board. But by who?



Malaysian Flight MH17 crash analysis, by The Russian Union of Engineers

Thursday, September 18, 2014


The original version of this post was published on the Oceania Saker Blog who
spearheaded the effort to translate this most important document proving, if
needed, that one can be down under and yet at the very top at the same time!

The Saker
-------
Malaysian Flight MH17 crash analysis, by The Russian Union of Engineers

This is an excellent detailed analysis of the MH17 tragedy by the Russian
Union of Engineers which quite frankly illustrates how heavily censored the
Dutch “report” is.

We will let you digest this report and come to your own conclusion, which in
all likelihood will explain the infamous high velocity projectiles whitewash
pumped out by the western “press”.

This review was undertaken by experts who not only know the subject matter
but have objectively presented evidence that must be considered with the
legitimacy that is inherent to it. Here is the overall description of the
“Analytical Group” from the report:

A group of experts from the Russian Union of engineers was convened to
analyze the situation, including reserve officers with experience in the use
of anti-aircraft missile systems, as well as pilots having experience with
aircraft weapons.This problem was also discussed at a meeting of the
Academy of Geopolitical Problems, where many variants were tested and
discussed again. In the course of their analysis the experts used materials
derived from public sources, found in the media. The situation was also
analyzed using a computer simulation of the Su-25.
You can download the English version of the report here.

The original Russian version of the report is here.

[note: the links above point to documents in the proprietary M$ DOCX format. For
those who, like myself might prefer the free ODT or PDF format, I have made them
available here. The Saker]

Official statement by the Russian Union of Engineers:
(please press on the 'cc' button to see the English subtitles)


r7puNlaX0s0

[Cidersomerset]

Exxon Winds Down Drilling as US Sanctions Hit Russia

Monday 22nd September 2014 at 08:05 By david-icke


http://www.davidicke.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/get-attachment-3322-587x338.jpg

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

http://gdb.voanews.com/74F8C7CE-0833-412F-9054-1FBCDCED42FD_w640_r1_s_cx0_cy9_cw79.jpg

‘ExxonMobil said on Friday it will wind down drilling in Russia’s Arctic in the face of
U.S. sanctions targeting Western cooperation with Moscow’s oil sector, after the
Obama administration granted a brief extension to safely mothball its operations.

Washington extended sanctions on Russia last week over its aggression in Ukraine.
The new measures seek to stop billions of dollars worth of cooperation between
Western and Russian energy companies on oil drilling in Russia’s Arctic, in Siberia
and offshore. Companies have until Sept. 26 to stop the work.’

Read more: Exxon Winds Down Drilling as US Sanctions Hit Russia

http://www.voanews.com/content/reu-exxon-arctic-drilling-russia-sanctions/2456136.html

[Hervé]

Malaysia Airlines MH17 passenger found with oxygen mask on — Dutch FM (http://en.itar-tass.com/world/753427)

World (http://en.itar-tass.com/world)
October 09, 11:33 UTC+4


The latest finding questions the earlier theory that the 298 victims on board the tragic flight had been killed instantly




http://videocdn.itar-tass.com/fit/333x9999_4ec25037/tass/m2/en/uploads/i/20141008/1064501.jpg (http://en.itar-tass.com/world/753378)

Ukraine’s services tried to get to Boeing crash site to forge evidence — Russia DefMin (http://en.itar-tass.com/world/753378)


THE HAGUE, October 9. /TASS/. One of those killed in the downed Malaysia Airlines flight MH17 in eastern Ukraine had an oxygen mask on when the body was recovered, Dutch Foreign Minister Frans Timmermans said on Thursday.

The latest finding questions the earlier theory that the 298 victims on board the tragic flight had been killed instantly and indicates that they may have remained conscious after the Boeing aircraft was shot down.

“People hardly had time to notice the missile coming, but do you know that one of the victims was found with an oxygen mask over the mouth?” the HOC TV channel quoted the minister as saying. “This means that someone had time to do that. At least, we cannot rule out this possibility,” Timmermans said.

Full article: http://en.itar-tass.com/world/753427

[Hervé]

Brief analysis of the above and how important and significant that "detail" really is:



means that oxygen masks were released, implies there was power to do that
means that depressurization was detected, implies power was available to do that
available power is in direct contradiction with both CVR and FDR shutting off at the same time without recording anything

See?

[Cidersomerset]

You reminded me I did see the report on BBC news page yesterday...

9 October 2014 Last updated at 17:15

MH17 crash: Dutch minister says passenger 'wore oxygen mask'



http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-29548942

[Hervé]

MH17 victims' families plan legal action against Dutch state (http://www.dutchnews.nl/news/archives/2014/10/mh17_victims_families_plan_leg.php)

Friday 10 October 2014
Several relatives of people killed in the MH17 plane crash are considering suing the Dutch state for negligence over its handling of the tragedy, the Telegraaf says on Friday.

Remarks about one of the victims wearing an oxygen mask made by foreign affairs minister Frans Timmermans on television earlier this week were ‘the final straw’ for some relatives, the paper says.

Relatives who had taken comfort in the fact their relatives had not suffered were shocked by the revelations. ‘We did not know. This should never have happened,’ one relative told the paper.

Investigation
A group representing some of the victims' families is now planning to take legal action against the state.

‘In addition, there has been no proper investigation of the crash site,’ said lawyer Bob van der Groen. ‘The Netherlands must ensure there are safety guarantees. We hold the state responsible for immaterial damages.’

Timmermans said he deeply regrets his statement and has apologised to the families.

© DutchNews.nl

[Hervé]

Kiev secretly received data from MH17 crash investigators – Ukrainian hacktivists (http://rt.com/news/195128-mh17-crash-cyberberkut-leak/)

Published time: October 11, 2014 17:25
Get short URL (http://rt.com/news/195128-mh17-crash-cyberberkut-leak/)


http://cdn.rt.com/files/news/2f/a3/80/00/mh17.si.jpg
Members of a group of international experts inspect the site where the downed Malaysia Airlines flight MH17 crashed, near the village of Hrabove (Grabovo) in Donetsk region, eastern Ukraine. (Reuters / Sergei Karpukhin)


Ukrainian CyberBerkut hacktivists claim that they have penetrated the internal network of Ukraine’s Defense Ministry and found proof that Kiev is getting secret data from MH17 crash investigators, including information which implies its involvement.

A document, posted on the website cyber-berkut.net, and allegedly downloaded from Ukraine’s Defense Ministry network, dates back to August 7 and appears to be signed by Colonel Igor Zorin, the chief of Ukraine’s air defense forces. It is a report which maintains that a fragment of a projectile found together with the debris of the crashed flight MH17 is in fact a damage agent of a 9M38 surface-to-air guided missile belonging to the mobile air defense complex Buk or Buk M1.

Photo scans allegedly depicting the fragment in question have been also posted.
The document acknowledged that a specific rectangular shape of the fragment pointed out that it could belong to a 9N314 warhead of the 9M38 anti-aircraft missile.



It was suggested that the final conclusion could be made after analyzing the original fragments depicted in the photographs.


http://rt.com/files/news/2f/a3/80/00/1.jpg
image from http://cyber-berkut.net


CyberBerkut claimed that the documents are evidence that the MH17 crash investigation commission and the Ukraine Defense Ministry have “special relations.”
Meanwhile, Ex-Air Defense deputy chief, military expert Aleksandr Tazekhulakhov told RT that judging by the photo, the fragment is deformed to the extent that it is impossible to independently define its form which is very important for the final conclusion.

“The metal fragment depicted in the photo can’t be identified as part of any ballistic missile warhead. It can be whatever,” he said. Only after several types of tests, such as ballistic, chemical and spectral analysis, can any conclusion be made.

The Dutch Safety Board, which is investigating the MH17 crash, released a preliminary report in September stating that the plane “broke up in the air probably as the result of structural damage caused by a large number of high-energy objects that penetrated the aircraft from outside.”



http://rt.com/files/news/2f/a3/80/00/3.jpg
image from http://cyber-berkut.net




http://rt.com/files/news/2f/a3/80/00/2.jpg
image from http://cyber-berkut.net


The commission said that the full report on the catastrophe is set to be released “within a year of the crash,” as the investigators “want to further analyze the data and the wreckage.”

Buk and Buk M1 missile systems were developed by the Soviet Union and entered into service in the late 1970s and in early 1980s.

Earlier this week, a source in Russia’s Defense Ministry told RIA Novosti news agency that after the fall of the Soviet Union, a number of such systems remained in Ukraine and today Kiev possesses no less than 70 Buk M1 systems.

According to open sources, the Russian army operates only Buk-M1-2 and Buk-M2 missile systems – the latest modified versions developed after Ukraine became independent in 1991.

The source also accused Valentin Nalivaichenko, head of the Security Service of Ukraine (SBU), of inadvertently leaking that the MH17 Boeing-777-200 crash in July was caused by an outdated missile that only Ukrainian army still operates.

RIA Novosti's source also said that on the day the MH17 was shot down, Ukraine’s 156th SAM regiment carried out an unauthorized missile launch.


Read more:
MH17 crash: Ukraine security chief says missile only Kiev has may be found at crash site (http://rt.com/news/194848-mh17-ukrainian-missile-buk/)

MH17 broke up in mid-air due to external damage - Dutch preliminary report (http://rt.com/news/186256-malaysia-airlines-probe-report/)

[Cidersomerset]

MH-17: The Untold Story

iuoIw3jBV4g

Published on 22 Oct 2014


Three months after Malaysia Airlines Flight MH17 was violently brought down from the
skies over Ukraine, there are still no definitive answers to what caused the tragedy. Civil
conflict in the area prevented international experts from conducting a full and thorough
investigation. The wreckage should have been collected and scrupulously re-assembled
to identify all the damage, but this standard investigative procedure was never carried
out. Until that’s done, evidence can only be gleaned from pictures of the debris, the
flight recorders or black boxes and eye-witnesses’ testimonies. This may be enough to
help build a picture of what really happened to the aircraft, whether a rocket fired from
the ground or gunfire from a military jet.

RTD WEBSITE: http://RTD.rt.com/
RTD ON TWITTER: http://twitter.com/RT_DOC
RTD ON FACEBOOK: http://www.facebook.com/RTDocumentary

[sigma6]

What happens when you over-indulge in propaganda... over zealous desire to contribute to the misinformation wagon...

Sikorski U-turn: Polish ex-FM backtracks on scandalous 'divide Ukraine' claim
http://rt.com/news/197984-politico-putin-tusk-sikorski/

Radoslaw Sikorski — the speaker of the Polish Parliament and that nation’s former foreign minister — was forced to apologize after claiming that he overheard Vladimir Putin in 2008 suggest that Ukraine should be divided between Russia and Poland.

[sigma6]

Now do you suppose this will even make it to main stream media news????????????????????????????

Germany Clears Russia In MH17 Case, Leaving Kiev Looking Guilty As Sin!

lUXKQw7LWtw

Germans Clear Russia in MH-17 Case
October 20, 2014


Exclusive: For months, Western governments and media have accused Russia of supplying the anti-aircraft missile that brought down Malaysia Airlines Flight 17 killing 298 people. But now German intelligence has reportedly determined the missile came from a Ukrainian military base, writes Robert Parry.

By Robert Parry

The West’s case blaming Russia for the shoot-down of a Malaysia Airlines plane over Ukraine last July appears to be crumbling as the German foreign intelligence agency has concluded that the anti-aircraft missile battery involved came from a Ukrainian military base, according to a report by the German newsmagazine Der Spiegel.

The Obama administration and other Western governments have pointed the finger of blame at Russia for supposedly supplying a sophisticated BUK missile system to ethnic Russian rebels in eastern Ukraine who then allegedly used the weapon on July 17 to shoot down what they thought was a Ukrainian military plane but turned out to be Malaysia Airlines Flight 17, killing all 298 people onboard.

[Hervé]

Not alone: New radar data indicates other jets on MH17 course before crash (http://rt.com/news/205339-mh17-air-plane-malaysian/)

Published time: November 13, 2014 22:22
Edited time: November 14, 2014 05:38
Get short URL (http://rt.com/news/205339-mh17-air-plane-malaysian/)


http://cdn.rt.com/files/news/32/21/b0/00/mh17.si.jpg
Dutch experts work at Malaysia Airlines Flight MH17 Amsterdam - Kuala Lumpur crash site. (RIA Novosti / Alexey Kudenko)



New radar data indicating that military aircraft were in the air near Malaysia Airlines flight MH17 when it crashed in eastern Ukraine on July 17 has been released by a Russian air safety consultancy.

The consultancy provided a snapshot representing the readings taken by a radar station located in Russia’s Rostov, near the Ukrainian border, shortly before and about 20 minutes after the MH17 crash.

According to Sergey Melnichenko, CEO of Aviation Safety consultancy, there were one or two warplanes in the air close to the Malaysian airliner. The data casts doubt on the version of the tragedy favored by Western nations, which claims the plane was shot down from the ground by rebel forces with a sophisticated surface-to-air missile.

The data “came from an air traffic control center in Rostov,” Melnichenko told Moskovsky Komsomolets newspaper, declining to reveal which one and whether it was civilian or military. He assured that “we have full trust in the sources, which helped us make it available to the public.”

“The data clearly shows that at the moment of the crash and after it there were planes moving north of the Boeing course. Most likely, they were military, because the spots are very close to each other. The conclusion is that there were either one or two aircraft there,” Melnichenko told the daily.


http://rt.com/files/news/32/21/b0/00/map-2.jpg
The alleged military plane or planes are represented by blue spots tagged 'T,' while MH17’s route is marked by a purple line. (image from www.aviasafety.ru (http://www.aviasafety.ru))


Another indication that the planes in question were military aircraft is the fact that they didn’t respond to being scanned, Melnichenko said. Civilian planes always reply to signals from radar, while military aircraft are “usually unequipped with transmitter-responders or the pilots turn them off during combat flights,” he explained.

With the rebel forces possessing no air force of their own, Russia and Ukraine are the most logical parties to send warplanes to that area, the expert said. But it would have been impossible for a Russian warplane to make it over the border without being detected by Ukrainian and NATO radars.

“There would’ve been reaction on something like that long ago – from NATO and Ukraine. But there was no reaction because there was nothing to react to,” he explained.


http://rt.com/files/news/32/21/b0/00/mh17-1.jpg
A man on the crash site of the MH 17 Malaysian Boeing that was en route from Amsterdam to Kuala Lumpur. (RIA Novosti / Alexey Kudenko)


Several days after the MH17 crash, the Russian Defense Ministry released evidence that it detected a Ukrainian fighter jet near the Boeing at the time of the catastrophe. Kiev denied deploying any jets on that day, but it had been routinely using aviation to deliver airstrikes at rebel positions.

According to Melnichenko, the new data is consistent with that published by the military.

“Our data is somewhat more precise...they didn’t present the airplane’s flight paths as clearly. But maybe they did it intentionally, I don’t know,” he said.


http://rt.com/files/news/32/21/b0/00/mh17-3.jpg
At the crush site of the Malaysian Airlines Boeing 777, outside the village of Grabovo, near Shakhtyorsk, Donetsk Region. (RIA Novosti / Mikhail Voskresenskiy)


The expert added that the presence of military planes north of the Boeing would put them in a position to the left of the plane. Some photos from the crash site showed damage to the cockpit’s left side, consistent with a scenario of an attack by those planes.

All 298 people aboard Malaysia Airlines flight MH17 were killed when the airliner crashed on July 17. The plane was downed over the warzone in Ukraine’s Donetsk region, where Kiev authorities imposed after the February coup launched a military crackdown on rebels rejecting the change of power.

Both sides involved in the conflict have accused each other of bringing down the aircraft. Kiev and its Western sponsors claim it was shot by a BUK defense missile system brought from Russia, and hold Moscow accountable for the tragedy. No evidence has ever been presented, except for questionable photos floating online which claim to show the system.


http://rt.com/files/news/32/21/b0/00/mh17-2.jpg
OSCE experts examine the crash site of the Boeing aircraft of Malaysia Airlines Flight 17 (MH17/MAS17) from Amsterdam to Kuala Lumpur. (RIA Novosti / Alexey Kudenko)


In late October, the chief investigator with the Dutch National Prosecutors' Office, Fred Westerbeke, told Der Spiegel magazine that his team is open to the theory that another plane shot down the Malaysian airliner.

According to its website, Aviation Safety consultancy and analysis agency provides information, advice, and analytical services in the field of aviation safety for the members of the Commonwealth of Independent States (CIS), a collective of former Soviet republics.


READ MORE: Ukrainian Su-25 fighter detected in close approach to MH17 before crash - Moscow (http://rt.com/news/174412-malaysia-plane-russia-ukraine/)

READ MORE: MH17 might have been shot down from air – chief Dutch investigator (http://rt.com/news/199891-dutch-investigation-mh17-crash/)

[Slorri]

This video might not be for everyone to watch. And might soon be gone from Youtube.
It looks like they have taken down the Anna New youtube channel now, possibly because of this. They had the original.

18+ Horrific details of the MH17. The plane that never crashed.
TB2-Ra1SPqE


Video, recorded 20 minutes after "crash" of MH17

This video proves that the MH17 never crashed!

All photos seem to point at remains and passengers of the plane that disappeared earlier this year, the MH370 from Malaysian Airlines that suddenly "vanished" from the radar.

¤=[Post Update]=¤

The bodies had no blood in them, but seemed to be filled with formalin.

Sorry, not sure what happened there.
This is the channel that held the original:
https://www.youtube.com/user/newsanna1943
Not sure if it is still there or not. They have a lot of videos.

[jackovesk]

November 15, 2014

http://resources0.news.com.au/images/2014/11/15/1227123/846076-a45dda9e-6c3c-11e4-ae84-798920b22a79.jpg
Russian media picture ... The fighter jet featured in the satellite image. Picture: LiveLeak Source: Supplied

HOURS before the G20 summit is due to start in Brisbane, Russia’s official media has released satellite images which it claims shows the Malaysia Airline’s flight MH17 was shot down by a Ukrainian fighter jet, not a surface-to-air missile.

The flight from Amsterdam to Kuala Lumpur was brought down over the war zone in eastern Ukraine on July 17, killing all 298 people on board including 38 Australian residents and citizens.

http://resources0.news.com.au/images/2014/11/15/1227123/846104-a1abb3ca-6c3c-11e4-ae84-798920b22a79.jpg
Russian media picture ... the image appears to show a fighter jet shooting a missile in the direction of a passenger jet. Picture: LiveLeak Source: Supplied

Russian President Vladimir Putin has been under increasing pressure to apologise for the tragedy after initial investigations indicated it was a Russian made BUK missile system used by pro-Moscow rebels that was responsible.

In what only could be described as an extraordinary coincidence after Mr Putin was confronted by Australian Prime Minister Tony Abbott in Beijing this week, Russia’s state broadcaster aired the images supplied by unnamed sources.

The presenter said they showed how a Mig-29 fighter plane destroyed the Boeing 777 passenger plane.

A Dutch Safety Board preliminary report on the MH17 disaster found the aircraft crashed after being punctured by “high energy objects ... that originated from outside the fuselage”.

The report made no finding on whether the “high energy objects” originated from a surface-to-air missile or some other weapon.

http://resources1.news.com.au/images/2014/11/15/1227123/846477-0ecebd4a-6c3c-11e4-ae84-798920b22a79.jpg
In the spotlight ... Russian President Vladimir Putin arrives in Brisbane to take part in the G20 summit. Picture: AFP PHOTO / Peter Parks Source: AFP

Mr Abbott’s hard line on the suspected Russian involvement in the tragedy has not gone down well with grieving families.

Paul Guard, who lost his parents Roger and Jill Guard when the aircraft was brought down, told the ABC yesterday he would prefer the Prime Minister worked with Mr Putin in order to ensure complete transparency in the investigation process.

Member countries of the joint investigation team announced this week an extension to the official investigation for another nine months until August 15.

Investigators have had difficulty accessing the crash site because of ongoing fighting between the Ukrainians and pro-Russian separatists, but a Dutch newspaper reports that a new deal has been agreed on, allowing access.

The Dutch investigators will be allowed to return to the region controlled by the separatists under the agreement reached in negotiations overseen by the Organisation for Security and Co-operation in Europe (OSCE), the Dutch newspaper Volkskrant reported late on Friday, quoting the Justice Ministry in the Hague.

Many pieces of MH17 wreckage lie in the area controlled by the separatists, which has made their recovery especially difficult. Earlier this month experts were still recovering human remains and pieces of the jet.

http://www.news.com.au/travel/travel-updates/russian-media-releases-satellite-image-claiming-to-show-mh17-shot-down-by-ukrainian-fighter-jet/story-fnizu68q-1227123846130

PS - Aussie PM said that he wants to ((Shirt-Front)) Russian President Putin during the G20, still claiming the Russians shot down Flight MH17...:pound:


Tony Abbott vows to 'shirtfront' Vladimir Putin over MH17 tragedy

http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/tony-abbott-vows-to-shirtfront-vladimir-putin-over-mh17-tragedy-20141013-115cm3.html


How's that for that for a ((SHIRT-FRONT)) Tony Abbott you Sychophantical ((English - Grovelling Parasite)) effing TURD...!!!

http://images.smh.com.au/2014/10/14/5875654/Article%20Lead%20-%20narrow62395419115j9iimage.related.articleLeadNarrow.353x0.115cm3.png1413246569143.jpg-300x0.jpg

PSS - Question..:confused:


Why did the Russians take so long to show us this, could have been done weeks ago..???

Answer:

Because no self respecting NWO Suckholes ((Never-Ever)) let a good ((Crisis)) go to waste and that includes ((YOU)) Vlad...:wizard:

[Verdilac]

I bet this doesn't make it to the BBC news...

[Tesseract]

debunked - post deleted

[ThePythonicCow]

Russia’s official media has released satellite images which it claims shows the Malaysia Airline’s flight MH17 was shot down by a Ukrainian fighter jet, not a surface-to-air missile.
From The Vineyard of the Saker (http://vineyardsaker.blogspot.com/2014/11/mh17-more-proof-that-ukies-did-it.html?m=1):

~~~~~~~~~~~~



MH17: more proof that the Ukies did it

The Russian newspaper MK has obtained a screenshot of the recording of a civilian Russian radar screen in Rostov - just east of the Russian-Ukrainian border. This is what is shows:

http://www.mk.ru/upload/objects/articlesImages/image/a9/dc/a9/57/1256828_7370721.jpg
What this image shows is 20 minutes of recording of the airspace before and after the shooting down of MH17. The course of MH17 is shown in purple while the numerous little blue "T" shaped objects in the circle show the radar return of one or, possibly two, aircraft which either do not have a transponder or which have not switched it on. Either way, since we know that the Novorussian Resistance did not have aircraft, and since we know that the Ukrainians have denied that they had any aircraft anywhere near this area at that time, and since we know that had this been a Russian aircraft the US/NATO AWACS and satellites would have picked it up and presented this damning proof a long time ago we can come to the only possible conclusion: the Ukies and their US/EU patrons are lying, the aircraft seen on the radar are Ukrainian, no Buk missile was involved in the shooting (though I personally believe that one was used to cue the Ukrainian aircraft to MH17) and that MH17 was shot down by a combo of gun and missile fire from one or two Ukrainian aircraft.~~~~~~~~~~~~

[Bill Ryan]

-------

An excellent short (23 mins) Russia Today documentary on the same subject:

MH-17: The Untold Story


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iuoIw3jBV4g

[Anchor]

What timing.

I wonder who got him those images - I imagine that the sources of these are well protected.

[ThePythonicCow]

http://resources0.news.com.au/images/2014/11/15/1227123/846104-a1abb3ca-6c3c-11e4-ae84-798920b22a79.jpg
Russian media picture ... the image appears to show a fighter jet shooting a missile in the direction of a passenger jet. Picture: LiveLeak Source: Supplied
Here's the full sized, 7406x5000 pixel, 1.6 Mbyte version of this image:
http://thepythoniccow.us/MH17shootdown_big.jpg
Image is from http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=bc3_1415985472, via http://whatreallyhappened.com/content/hd-satellite-image-alleged-ua-fighter-attacking-mh17

=====

Updates on the above whatreallyhappened.com link:

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~



UPDATE: The Daily Mail is claiming that this image came from a "foreign" power's spy satellite. Foreign power maybe, but the scale of the aircraft relative to the ground suggests a much lower altitude such as a spy drone. From the altitude of a spy satellite, the aircraft should be close to the same scale as the airport. Something is wrong.

UPDATE 2: This image is a fake, and a very good one. Matching the clouds we see that the ground is a from a Google Earth image taken on 9/17/2011.

Detail from above "spy" image.

http://whatreallyhappened.com/IMAGES/MH17shootdownCLOUDGIVEAWAYdetail2.jpg
Detail from Google Earth view of 48°06'38.51" N 38°11'12.51" E on September 17, 2011.

http://whatreallyhappened.com/IMAGES/SMALL_googleearth9-17-2011.jpg
I suspect someone tried to plant this picture to discredit first Russia and second the independent media.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

[David Ansible]

It's interesting how MH17 has to some degree erased MH370 from the mass consciousness.

[ThePythonicCow]

I suspect someone tried to plant this picture to discredit first Russia and second the independent media.
A relevant comment from the liveleak page (http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=d91_1415981606#comment_page=3):

Boeing Length 63.7 m;
Su-27 Length: 21.9 m;

why su - 27 is sooo small ?
So ... three strikes against this photo so far:

The clouds nicely match something found on Google earth from a different day. MH17 went down on 17 July 2014, and the clouds appear to be from 17 Sept 2011.
The MH17 Boeing 777 plane, from the view of a satellite over 100 miles up, should look small enough to fit on the airport runway, visible on the ground below, since their distance from the satellite is only about 6 miles difference (the altitude of the plane). Instead, the MH17 Boeing is way too big for that runway.
The MH17 Boeing should have a length that is less than 3 times that of the fighter (63.7/21.9 == 2.9). Instead it is over 4 times the size. Using gimp (GNU image manipulation and paint program) to measure the two planes in pixels, from the big image, the fighter is 82 pixels long and the Boeing is 380 pixels long, which is 380/82 == 4.6 times longer.

[jerry]

If this was the case , what are we to make of the bullet riddled cockpit photos that were presented as evidence of the shoot down ? Soon the likes of a Warren Commission's Report will be able to give us the official story and we can then get on with our lives.

[Anchor]

-- Updated update: Useless speculation removed --

(This doesn't really help - the planes not being the correct size with respect to eachother is probably the worst mistake)

[Tesseract]

It's amusing how the MSM are out there debunking this as fast as they can type when they still have done nothing to debunk all of the fake material put out by Ukrainian sources.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/ukraine/11232683/Russia-says-MH17-was-shot-down-by-plane-missiles.html

[ThePythonicCow]

If this was the case , what are we to make of the bullet riddled cockpit photos that were presented as evidence of the shoot down ? Soon the likes of a Warren Commission's Report will be able to give us the official story and we can then get on with our lives.

Strike four - thanks for reminding us. Yes, as best as I recall, our earlier analysis suggested that both cannon fire and a missile, in combination, brought down the plane. For example, from this post (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?73055-Malaysian-Plane-MH17-shot-down-with-over-295-on-board.-But-by-who&p=864271&viewfull=1#post864271) of August 13, 2014:

The New Straits Times article began, "Intelligence analysts in the United States have already concluded that Malaysia flight MH17 was shot down by an air-to-air missile, and that the Ukrainian government had had something to do with it. This corroborates an emerging theory postulated by local investigators that the Boeing 777-200 was crippled by an air-to-air missile and finished off with cannon fire from a jet that had been shadowing it as it plummeted to earth."

It cited "experts who had said that the photographs of the blast fragmentation patterns on the fuselage of the airliner showed two distinct shapes -- the shredding pattern associated with a warhead packed with 'flechettes,' and the more uniform, round-type penetration holes consistent with that of cannon rounds."

The New Straits Times cited several sources to substantiate its position. One was testimony by a Canadian-Ukrainian monitor for the Organization for Security and Cooperation in Europe (OSCE), Michael Bociurkiw -- one of the first investigators to arrive at the crash site. Speaking to the Canadian Broadcasting Corporation on July 29, Bociurkiw said: "There have been two or three pieces of fuselage that have been really pockmarked with what almost looks like machine gun fire; very, very strong machine gun fire."

[ThePythonicCow]

Strike five - the markings on the side of the plane are in the wrong position.

Here's a blow-up of MH17 Boeing 777 from the http://thepythoniccow.us/MH17shootdown_big.jpg image I posted above:

http://thepythoniccow.us/MH17shootdown_cropped.jpg

Here's a real Malaysia Airlines Boeing 777-200:

http://thepythoniccow.us/boeing-777-200.jpg

Notice that the word Malaysia is partly over the wing on the real plane, but entirely forward of the wing on the "shootdown" image.

[Azt]

Here is another Malaysia Airlines Boeing with the logo in front of the plane more like the satellite image.

http://static3.thedrum.com/uploads/news/175054/malaysia.jpg

I think what grabs my attention on this case is that the bodies were reported found without shirts and looks like decomposed already when the plane crash.

I think in two possibilities:

1) Some kind of bio-weapon were used inside the plane on the fatal minutes (Take a look on the TV series Fringe)

or

2) The bodies were not MH17 passengers (and even the plane might not be the original MH17) ...

[Hervé]

About those bodies, one has to understand they were first decompressed and then flash frozen dead before hitting the ground.

Then, thawing took place...

[ThePythonicCow]

Here is another Malaysia Airlines Boeing with the logo in front of the plane more like the satellite image.
The "l" (L, third letter in Malaysia) appears to be over the leading edge of the left wing in your image, just as the 's' (S, third letter from the end in Malaysia) appears to be over leading edge of the right wing in my image. Neither is like the satellite image.

[Roisin]

http://thepythoniccow.us/MH17shootdown_cropped.jpg

Um, why is the background more clear and less fuzzy than the plane itself? A quick eyeball on this one is telling me right off the bat that the photo is a fake for that reason alone. Not to mention the different texture of the plane and the background....

PS -- it's truly mind boggling that they are trying to pass this one off as an authentic photo of that plane.

[PAVONIA]

It looks like this theory can be put to bed.

[Zamolxe]

I would really like to thank Paul for the analysis. It's reassuring to know that there are still rational people in the "alternative" community.

I'd like to know what you guys still think about this subject. I mean, why you still believe that this plane crash was a conspiracy and not just a stupid accident brought by yet another violent conflict between human beings.

If the "western powers" downed the plane, to "frame" Russia and the rebels in Ukraine, why didn't they act on this?
I mean, if they planned this HUGE action, why no follow up? Wouldn't the plan have a follow up?
I don't know if you are aware of this, but an overwhelming majority of "westerners" believed that the prorussians downed the plane. So, if the so called manipulation worked, why didn't NATO invade? Isn't this the follow up of the "false flag"?
After all these months, doesn't it seem that this event caught both russia and the west by surprise? Did it actually change anything in the conflict?

Did they really need to go over their heads only for economic sanctions to be voted against Russia?
Wouldn't they have applied the sanctions regardless of this crash?

The other thing that really surprises me is the way a big part of the "alternative community" adores Putin. This seems to be as blindly as the "others" follow Obama or CNN. Shouldn't discernemnt be practiced both ways?
They only love Putin because he speaks against the US and its allies. So, why don't they adore kim jong un, as he also speaks against the US...?

If Putin was really the lone fighter against the cabal, why doesn't he go all the way?

http://rt.com/politics/9-11-putin-seliger-investigation-toronto-355/

-- "This is complete nonsense, it is impossible," Putin said on Monday, responding to a question posed by an attendee of the Seliger 2011 youth forum.

"To imagine that US intelligence services did it deliberately, with their own hands, is complete nonsense," the prime minister said. --

Are you so blinded as to thinking they don't all have the same power hungry agenda?

If you are really curious people that want to know everything about everything so that to reduce the chances of ever being mainpulated, I suggest starting your research regarding Russia and Putin with "Poisoned By Polonium: The Litvinenko File" http://www.veoh.com/watch/v178479708bEk2GGx?h1=Poisoned+by+Polonium

This is just a start, from the top of my head and as always, make your own rational decisions as to what might be manipulative lies even in this particular documentary.

[Red Skywalker]

Connecting the dots: What about the passengers?

"Glenn Thomas wasn’t the only passenger on board Malaysian Airlines flight MH17 en route to AIDS 2014, an international conference in Australia where there was apparently going to be an important announcement to be made.

He was one of more than 100 key researchers aboard, including Joep Lange, a leading AIDS researcher and former president of the International AIDS Society (IAS), and his wife Jacqueline van Tongeren from the Amsterdam Institute for Global Health and Development.

According to Birdflu666 blog, “Lange was called a ‘giant’ in the AIDS research field, which means that he almost certainly knew that the HIV vaccine is a bioweapon causing AIDS. He would, therefore, have understood the implications of unleashing Ebola not just on Africa but on the world through experimental vaccines.”

Source: http://mathaba.net/news/?x=634090%20target= (http://mathaba.net/news/?x=634090%20target=)

And also:


0zO64bUgQtc

Remember, 15 minutes after the MH-17 crash Israël invaded once again Gaza.

And think again, the Ebola breakout started very shortly after the MH-17 crash.


Everything we think we know is in truth 180 degrees turned. We know nothing, somebody or something doesn't want that.
If we keep sleeping, as (too) many still do, all what is left of humanity on this planet will be over and will be enslaved. As we aren't yet enough.

To me, there is no hope anymore. I am just surviving instead of thriving till the end has come, still helping as many (but sleeping) people as I can.


:clock:

[syrwong]

The truth could be as strange as fiction. If they could produce the cinematic effect of planes crashing into buildings while “hiding” the real plane and passengers, and snatch a plane out of the sky without trace, why can’t they be more imaginative for this event than just shooting down the original plane? I am just wondering if against all analysis in this thread, the photo taken by a “US or UK” satellite might actually be real, because of the comment:

Ivan Andrievsky, the first Vice-President of the Russian Union of Engineers comments:
“Here is a space picture taken from a low orbit. According to the coordinates specified in the picture, we can assume that it was taken by a US or British spy satellite. We conducted a detailed analysis of the image and there was no sign of a fake here.”
http://www.globalresearch.ca/scandal-last-seconds-of-mh17-flight-were-snapshot-by-a-us-or-uk-spy-satellite/5414148

I assume this is very expert opinion, and if the photo is indeed real, and that the plane is not the original plane, imaginations can go wild.

[ghostrider]

there is no proof on a planet of lies , deceit , and corruption ... I think the whole thing was set up to have military jets escort all flights by civilians , putting the boot on the neck of the public under the disguise of keeping you safe from terrorist ... one thing you could say , it is not safe to fly over a war zone ...

[Innocent Warrior]

Newly released footage of MH17 wreckage.

News Article: "Amateur video shows flaming wreckage of Malaysia Airlines flight MH17 on the day it was shot down"
http://www.news.com.au/world/amateur-video-shows-flaming-wreckage-of-malaysia-airlines-flight-mh17-on-the-day-it-was-shot-down/story-fndir2ev-1227125103585

[A Voice from the Mountains]

UPDATE 2: This image is a fake, and a very good one. Matching the clouds we see that the ground is a from a Google Earth image taken on 9/17/2011.

Playing Devil's Advocate here, Google is of course a collaborator with the NSA and has various other ties to US military/intelligence.

How do we know that someone from one of these agencies didn't just go to Google and have them change this satellite image to one from the day of the shoot down, to fabricate this evidence you are citing?

Just saying, I wouldn't trust Google much either.

[sigma6]

Doesn't explain why the US and Ukraine are withholding information, satellite, Control Tower information, and suppressing the Spanish Air Traffic Controller witness... Is that guy even alive, or has he already been snuffed out?... How come there is ZERO news on this guy... If he was smart he should have moved to Russia with Snowden, as the only safe haven today for anti Western whistle blowers...

[EYES WIDE OPEN]

Gordon Duff: Fake photos were put out to discredit real info:

http://www.veteranstoday.com/2014/11/15/israel-and-mh17/

[Hervé]

MH17 crash debris finally retrieved for analysis, more human remains recovered
(http://rt.com/news/206131-mh17-crash-site-cleanup/)
Published time: November 17, 2014 14:09
Edited time: November 17, 2014 17:04
Get short URL (http://rt.com/news/206131-mh17-crash-site-cleanup/)


http://cdn.rt.com/files/news/32/53/30/00/23.si.jpg
Local workers carry wreckage from the downed Malaysia Airlines flight MH17 at the site of the plane crash near the village of Hrabove (Grabovo) in Donetsk region, eastern Ukraine November 16, 2014.(Reuters / Maxim Zmeyev)



Dutch investigators have begun evacuating debris of Malaysia Airlines flight MH17 from the crash site in eastern Ukraine. Human rights activists are addressing the UN and OSCE, warning the investigation is being either delayed on purpose or suppressed.

More human remains have been recovered by experts during the latest debris retrieval operation at the crash site, the Dutch government reported. The remains will be transported to the Ukrainian city of Kharkov for further examination, before being sent to the Netherlands as part of the investigation.

Estimated to last from five to 10 days, the recovery is partial, as investigators have opted to mark only those pieces of debris they are interested in, leaving the rest behind. The works are being supervised by the Dutch Safety Board investigators and observed by the OSCE.

Local emergency workers of the self-proclaimed Donetsk People’s Republic (DPR) are using cranes to load up large fragments of the Boeing 777 on trucks to take them to the nearby Torez railway station, where the debris is unloaded on to the platforms. After the wreckage is shipped to the Netherlands through Kharkov, the fragments will reconstruct parts of the Boeing in order to find out what kind of weapon caused the catastrophe.

A detailed analysis of the crashed Boeing debris could help establish how exactly the plane was brought down.

Authorities of the village of Grabovo, near which the debris fell, have already handed a number of personal items to investigators, including passports and credit cards retrieved by the locals.


http://rt.com/files/news/32/53/30/00/24.jpg
Dutch investigators and an Emergencies Ministry member work at the site where the downed Malaysia Airlines flight MH17 crashed, near the village of Hrabove (Grabovo) in Donetsk region, eastern Ukraine November 16, 2014.(Reuters / Maxim Zmeyev)


Immediately after MH17 crashed on July 17, investigators could not reach the site for some time because of the high-intensity combat ongoing in the region between the Ukrainian Army and self-defense forces of the DPR.

Even after the investigation teams were allowed to work on the crash site, the area suffered repeated shelling, preventing investigative activities from proceeding and damaging evidence.

The Dutch investigators published a preliminary report (http://rt.com/news/186256-malaysia-airlines-probe-report/) in September, which said that the plane crashed “as the result of structural damage caused by a large number of high-energy objects that penetrated the aircraft from outside.”

In late October the chief Dutch prosecutor investigating the MH17 downing in eastern Ukraine did not exclude the possibility that the Boeing may have been shot down from the air (http://rt.com/news/199891-dutch-investigation-mh17-crash/), Der Spiegel reported.

Malaysian Airlines flight MH17 was on its way from Amsterdam to Kuala Lumpur when it was shot down by as-yet unknown means in the sky over eastern Ukraine. The debris fell to earth some 60km from the Russian-Ukrainian border. All 298 passengers and crew aboard died, among them 196 Dutch citizens.


http://rt.com/files/news/32/53/30/00/25.jpg
Dutch experts supervise a crew from the emergency ministry of the self-proclaimed Donetsk People's Republic as they break up and load parts of the Malaysia Airlines Flight MH17 onto the back of a lorry at the crash site near the village of Grabove, in eastern Ukraine, on November 16, 2014.(AFP Photo / Menahem Kahana)


Russian human rights activists have addressed the UN, claiming that the investigation of the MH17 crash has been intentionally suppressed.

Georgy Fedorov, member of the Public Chamber of the Russian Federation, believes the tragedy of MH17 is being deferred on purpose and that the slow pace of investigation speaks towards that.

“We’ve addressed all [possible] organizations to form an international commission based on the UN and OSCE to investigate the crash, but there’s no result so far,” Fedorov told RIA Novosti, pointing out that authorities of the DPR have always been ready to let experts freely work at the crash site.

“Looks like somebody wants to hush up the story, once they failed to put the blame for it on Russia,” Fedorov said, promising to make the Public Chamber address the UN and Ukrainian government to bring the investigation to an end without delay.
On the contrary, the chairman of the Russian president’s Human Rights Council, Mikhail Fedotov, believes there’s no need speed up the investigation.

“We’re ready to wait patiently for the results,” Fedotov said, as cited by RIA Novosti, urging that experts not be rushed, because the world community and the civil society of the countries that lost their citizens in the crash expect “not politicized, but objective and authoritative conclusions from the experts.”


READ MORE: Shocking amateur footage shows MH17 crash aftermath (http://rt.com/news/206031-mh17-amateur-video-crash/)

[avid]

At last - thanks to RT and now the MSM it can't be hidden any more. Deliberately downed by zio's. Resources required? Or access to these and bargaining power? Funded/backed by corporatocratic USA. Actually, the 'corporatocracy' is global these days, profit is all wherever it's 'needed' and it will trash any country, anywhere, for resources for profit. It reminds me of a weird motto "By way of deception thou shalt do war" to get whatever 'one' wants...

[sigma6]

Hand of Netanyahu Shows Itself
—
By Gordon Duff, Senior Editor (here I posted it :D... interesting indeed... )

—
Some thought the Gaza attacks were to take heat off Israel’s involvement in MH17. Gaza went on so long, so many children murdered, that if so, it was like putting out a fire on your pant leg by pouring on gasoline. The analogy fits.
I have an article on MH17 on Press TV. There is no reason to beat this to death. It wasn’t a missile — it would have been seen. What we began getting is sock puppet comments stating the satellite photos of MH17 are fake.
There was no reason to have satellite photos at all. We had radar proof all along. When it was claimed a “low level SU 25″ was following MH17 and “incapable of performance and altitude” required, we knew better. A Su25 can shoot down an airliner, but it wasn’t an Su 25 at all.
Here is what tied it up today. Alexander Mercouris. This is a guy who came out of nowhere in 2012 on Russia Today, and then a series of not so secretly Israeli-funded sites like Global Research and Sputnik. He had no background. Global Research claims he is a former lawyer and international law expert. We did background on him.
You could do a sitcom about this guy. Run it yourself. I am not doing a hatchet job other than to say he couldn’t park a car, much less act as an expert on anything.
When I read the background material on him to Jim Dean, he actually fell on the floor laughing.
We have a guy with no job, no experience, two very nice cats and some horrific personal shortcomings as a paid commentator on things he never heard of, all out of “nowhere whatsoever,” a town in Southern Illinois.
Mercouris was “pro-Russian” until “activated” by a “handler.” He was “burned” in order to use his two year old “legend” to try to silence Israel’s involvement in MH17. He turned 180 degrees “on a dime,” the classic burning of an asset. Hell, in today’s world, you can burn them over and over. Assange comes to life like a Zombie with great regularity.
In the past few weeks both Gareth Porter and Christina Amanpour did 180’s to burn down Iran. Both will get second chances and third and fourth simply because, well, we aren’t going to say right now but you can guess.
There is also a back story here, too classified for publishing, about the IAEA, Iran and Israel, how everyone is trying to trash the nuclear deal because too many “special people” on every side are raking in cash keeping things as they are. It is so much fun to hate Netanyahu and his toady Abe “the fox” Foxman, but they aren’t alone.
What the satellite photo story has brought out is activated agents that give us more names to add to the Assange, Gage, Jones (2), Bollyn, Porter, Shamir and “too many others too count” list of mysterious “hangers on”.
Baretzky should tell you how easy it is when you have access to nearly every Interpol database.
Here’s the rub: Any photo can be phony. Would someone release a phony photo in order to prove it false because the radar imagery alone has shown the preliminary investigation by the Netherlands to have been rigged?
Remember, these photos came out of “nowhere” and were not needed. The proof was there that it was Kiev, but there were things we didn’t know. We had a “probable” Israeli F 15E flying out of Azerbaijan that could have been acting as an AWAC for the downing of MH17. We had no proof.
We know the US had AEGIS radar showing everything and had withheld satellite photos. Why?
But now, we see Israeli assets coming out of the woodwork like cockroaches, trying to steer people away from the Su22 solution — the right plane, the right place, the right radar performance profile — a chain of events we would never have been able to track to Tel Aviv if they had just kept their hands in their pockets instead of turning to a mole with a legend and a horrific personal history.
Then again, we have so much more, all over the past months — it was all over anyway. We all knew. Did our friends in Israel create the satellite photos just to dump on them? If the photos are phony, Israel did it.
If they are not, Israel did it. When playing “the game,” knowing the rules helps.

[PathWalker]

Interesting indeed.

I also believe that publicly shown "evidence" is a decoy.
There is another interesting theory from Simon Parks. Disclosed in his Project Camelot interview @min 54:30.
He says the plane was shot down by the Russians with cannons. Because it was carrying bio-weapon targeting a Russian city, that is why no one was allowed to access the area for few days. It was a Mossad operation. And he also describes the backdoor political ramifications to the incident. Who know, he also represents a side in the equation.
b4WQty5e7Cc

[Hervé]

MH17: Malaysia’s Barring from Investigation Reeks of Cover-up (http://journal-neo.org/2014/11/28/mh17-malaysia-s-barring-from-investigation-reeks-of-cover-up/)



http://journal-neo.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/11/malaysia-airlines-b777-200er-300x169.jpg (http://journal-neo.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/11/malaysia-airlines-b777-200er.jpg)


It was a Malaysian jet, carrying Malaysian passengers, flown by Malaysian pilots, yet after Malaysia Airlines flight MH17 was shot down over Ukraine in July 2014, Malaysia has been systematically blocked from participating in the investigation, leaving an overwhelmingly pro-NATO bloc in charge of the evidence, investigation and outcome as well as the manner in which the investigation will be carried out.

Despite the integral role Malaysia has played during several pivotal moments in the aftermath of the disaster, it appears that the closer to the truth the investigation should be getting, the further Malaysia itself is being pushed from both the evidence and any influence it has on the likely conclusions of the investigation. With the downed aircraft in question being Malaysian, Malaysia as a partner in the investigation would seem a given. Its exclusion from the investigation appears to be an indication that the investigation’s objectivity has been compromised and that the conclusions it draws will likely be politically motivated.


Joint Investigation Team Includes, Excludes Surprising Members
With the Dutch leading the investigation, the logic being that the flight originated from the Netherlands and the majority of the passengers were Dutch, it has formed a Joint Investigation Team (JIT). At the onset of its creation it seemed obvious that Malaysia would too be included, considering it lost the second largest number of citizens to the disaster and the plane itself was registered in Malaysia. Instead, JIT would end up comprised of Belgium, Ukraine, and Australia, specifically excluding Malaysia.

Malaysia was both surprised and has protested its exclusion from JIT, and has repeatedly expressed a desire to be included directly in the investigation.

Malaysia’s Star newspaper would report (http://www.thestar.com.my/News/Nation/2014/11/18/No-invite-yet-for-KL-to-join-MH17-probe/), “Malaysian Ambassador to the Netherlands Datuk Dr Fauziah Mohd Taib said Malaysia had not been invited to officially join the Dutch-led Joint Investigation Team (JIT), which is undertaking the criminal probe.” It would also report that, “Transport Minister Datuk Seri Liow Tiong Lai said recently that Malaysia had expressed its stand very clearly that it must be part of the criminal investigation team and had informed Dutch authorities of its intention.”

The Malaysian Insider cited Malaysian scholar Dr. Chandra Muzaffar (http://www.themalaysianinsider.com/malaysia/article/why-is-malaysia-not-part-of-mh17-investigation-asks-group) who believes the decision to exclude his country from the investigation is politically motivated, aiming at excluding members that may urge caution and objectivity instead of draw conclusions first and bend the investigation’s results around those conclusions. In particular, Dr. Muzaffar believes that the investigations is intentionally being skewed to target Russia.

Ukraine’s involvement in the investigation is particularly troublesome. Had MH17 crashed in Ukraine under different circumstances, Ukraine’s role would be welcome. However, it was apparently shot down specifically in a conflict in which Kiev itself is a participant. With both sides of the conflict possessing anti-aircraft weapons and with Kiev itself confirmed to possess weapons capable of reaching the altitude MH17 was flying at when it was allegedly hit, Kiev becomes a possible suspect in the investigation. Kiev’s inclusion in JIT represents a monumental conflict of interest.

Imagine a potential suspect leading an investigation into a crime they may have committed. The possibilities to cover up, skew, spin, tamper with or otherwise distort both the evidence and the outcome of the investigation are endless.

And to compound this already glaring conflict of interest, it was revealed recently that an alleged “secret deal” (http://rt.com/news/207243-netherlands-mh17-investigation-documents/) was struck by JIT in which any member could bar the release of evidence. With all members of JIT being pro-NATO and decidedly arrayed against Moscow, such a “deal” could prevent crucial evidence from being revealed that would effect an otherwise distorted conclusion drawn by the investigators aimed specifically at advancing their greater political agenda in Eastern Europe. Had Malaysia been a member of JIT, the ability of other members to withhold evidence would have been greatly diminished and it is likely such a bizarre deal would not have been conceivable, real or imaged, in the first place.


Malaysia’s Exclusion Foreshadows Politically Motivated Outcome
With the ongoing conflict in Ukraine perceived as a proxy war between NATO and Moscow, JIT’s membership including the NATO-backed Kiev regime itself (a possible suspect), two NATO members (Belgium and the Netherlands) and Australia who has passed sanctions against Russia over the conflict, is a textbook case of conflict of interest.

Those nations and international organizations calling for an investigation and for justice but who ignore the obvious problem of participants in a conflict investigating a key incident that may benefit their agenda directly, indicates that such calls for justice are disingenuous and instead, what is being done is not an investigation, but a politically motivated witch-hunt aimed at serving an ulterior motive.

Malaysia is not generally perceived to be a stanch ally of Moscow, but it is neither a loyal client state of Washington, London or Brussels. On many issues, Malaysia has exhibited an independence in foreign policy that has perturbed the so-called international order maintained by the West. And Malaysia’s internal politics have long wrestled to stem inroads by Washington’s favorites including Anwar Ibrahim and his political faction, Pakatan Rakyat.

Its inclusion in the investigation would provide a much needed, impartial counterweight to an otherwise fully pro-NATO JIT membership.

To casual observers, the current investigation led by NATO members and Kiev, a possible suspect, would be no different than the Donetsk People’s Republic and Russia leading it. Few would consider a DPR or Russian led investigation impartial, and few should see a NATO-led investigation as impartial. Had Malaysia been included in the process, an argument could have been made that an actual investigation was taking place rather than a complex propaganda campaign.

Malaysia’s exclusion is a troubling sign for the victims of the MH17 disaster, meaning the true culprits will never be known. The overt politically motivated nature of the investigation will on one hand help fuel NATO’s propaganda war, but on the other hand, fuel the doubts of millions worldwide over the true events that took place in the skies of eastern Ukraine that day. Like so many other events in human history that took place amid a high stake political struggle, the downing of MH17 will be shrouded in mystery, mystery draped over the truth by the irresponsible leadership of NATO, and those in Washington, London and Brussels egging on the conflict in Ukraine to this very day.

Ulson Gunnar, a New York-based geopolitical analyst and writer especially for the online magazine “New Eastern Outlook (http://journal-neo.org/)”.

First appeared: http://journal-neo.org/2014/11/28/mh17-malaysia-s-barring-from-investigation-reeks-of-cover-up/

--------------------------------------------------------------------

Malaysia would be the only one able to say what belongs to THEIR plane, or not... and they are excluded!?

[Operator]

The 'News and views from the nefarium' of Joseph Farrell are always a good listen:

sic-tEr_GQY

Joseph already talked a while about countries wanting to repatriate their gold and how Germany was denied
even an audit and should wait till 2020 before they would even have a chance of getting it back from the US.
Now France is also on the path of demanding their gold back ...

The only country that mysteriously DID get some gold back from the US rapidly is the Netherlands. Could it be
that evidence of MH17 deliberately is kept from the public as leverage for these cases? Well it certainly is a
possibility ...

[Hervé]

Alternative Media and the MH17 JIT Reversal (http://journal-neo.org/2014/12/08/alternative-media-and-the-mh17-jit-reversal/)

Column: Politics (http://journal-neo.org/category/columns/politics/)
Region: Southeast Asia (http://journal-neo.org/category/locations/southeast-asia/)
Country: Malaysia (http://journal-neo.org/category/locations/southeast-asia/malaysia/)


http://journal-neo.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/12/55_20140909164900.-300x168.jpg (http://journal-neo.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/12/55_20140909164900..jpg)


After weeks of protests and growing suspicion, Dutch authorities overseeing the investigation of Malaysia Airlines flight MH17 have finally included Malaysia (http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/world/2014-12/01/c_127267516.htm) as a member of its Joint Investigation Team (JIT).

Malaysia had made it clear it was immensely displeased with its inexplicable exclusion from JIT (http://journal-neo.org/2014/11/28/mh17-malaysia-s-barring-from-investigation-reeks-of-cover-up/) formed after the downing of MH17 over eastern Ukraine. Including NATO members (Belgium and the Netherlands), a defacto NATO collaborator (Australia) and a potential culprit in the air disaster (Ukraine), Malaysia’s exclusion looked to be a part of an ongoing cover-up amid a larger attempt to use the disaster to frame Russia and advance NATO’s agenda in Eastern Europe.

The conflict amid which MH17 was shot down is perceived to be a proxy conflict between NATO and Russia. That the investigation includes exclusively pro-NATO members or NATO members themselves, both the conduct of the investigation and any conceivable outcome would be highly suspect. Malaysia, the only nation directly effected by the disaster and perceived of being beyond the direct influence of NATO, would have provided a much needed counterbalance.

Now that it has become a member of JIT, analysts must vigilantly watch to ensure it is allowed full access to evidence and equal participatory standings. While Malaysia’s inclusion provides hope that JIT will now be unable to pursue a political agenda with impunity, the possibility is high that NATO will simply cite Malaysia’s inclusion in JIT to legitimize its actions, no matter how biased the conduct of JIT’s investigation may be or how skewed its outcome, even if Malaysia raises protests over both,


Alternative Media’s Role in JIT Reversal
The diminishing primacy of the West’s powerful global media monopoly may be partially why Malaysia was finally included in JIT. Had there been no alternatives to this monopoly, including networks rising up in developing nations and among BRICS, as well as the more decentralized alternative media of “citizen journalists,” Malaysia’s protests simply would have been tuned out and other issues put forward to cover up the glaringly compromised nature of JIT’s original members and their methodology.

It was also revealed that JIT had arranged agreements among members to bar the release of certain information when deemed necessary. With Malaysia excluded from JIT, any number of relevant or incriminating pieces of evidence could have already been purged from the investigation while other pieces of evidence fabricated to take their place. The alternative media played a crucial role in bringing this suspicious arrangement to the public’s attention.

In all, large and growing outrage over what was clearly a politically motivated investigation was given a platform by the alternative media to reach a wider general public. Unable to ignore obvious misconduct in the investigation and a glaring lack of objectivity and impartiality because of this fact, may have forced NATO to include Malaysia despite the obvious restraints it would put on its attempt to whitewash the investigation.


What Malaysia Must Do Now
Malaysia must ask the questions and demand the evidence required to determine whether or not evidence was destroyed or switched during its absence in JIT, then ensure an impartial, objective investigation is pursued to determine the cause of MH17’s fateful crash and who was responsible. It must ensure it is included in all matters of the investigation and that pro-NATO members are unable to pursue avenues unilaterally without Malaysia’s knowledge and input.

If the alternative media did indeed play a role in helping Malaysia obtain a position within JIT, the truest test will be for the same media platform to now ensure NATO does not simply use Malaysia’s inclusion in JIT to force through foregone, biased and deceitful conclusions. The alternative media must help Malaysia bring any grievances it may have with JIT’s other members and their methods during the investigation to the forefront of public attention.

Inconsistencies and findings Malaysia may publish that run contradictory to NATO’s conclusions and innuendos must also be brought to the public’s attention via the alternative media, considering much of MH17’s investigation has either been spun or covered up entirely by the West’s media monopolies.


What the Drawn Out, Suspicious Investigation Already Tells Us
Had NATO truly been sure of Russia’s culpability in MH17’s downing, carrying out a quick, transparent, and inclusive investigation none could question would have been at the forefront of NATO’s agenda. Instead, a shadowy investigation carried out by a stacked Joint Investigation Team, excluding a nation effected directly by the disaster for no apparent reason besides its residing beyond NATO’s direct sphere of influence reeks of a cover up or at best, an attempt to spin an uncertain chain of events into a politically and strategically favorable outcome.

For JIT’s original members not to have vocally protested this suspicious behavior and multiple conflicts of interest, illustrate that much of JIT’s work regardless of Malaysia’s inclusion in the process lacks the legitimacy of a truly objective and impartial process.

That NATO cannot conduct the investigation in a transparent manner and has resorted to multiple attempts to imply Russian culpability before presenting concrete evidence suggests there is either no evidence to implicate Russia at this time, or there exists evidence that directly contradict NATO’s claims.

Regardless, it will be up to the alternative media to provide the necessary checks and balances the Western media should, but won’t provide itself. Independent analysts must continue examining the ongoing investigation and reporting inconsistencies in both methods and outcomes. By stopping NATO from exploiting tragedy to advance its own agenda amid the MH17 case, future disasters may see a speedy, objective investigation and perhaps, may not occur at all.

First appeared: http://journal-neo.org/2014/12/08/alternative-media-and-the-mh17-jit-reversal/

[avid]

Yet 'we' know who caused the effect, the financier of Ukraine's 'private army' who are into profiteering and their rotten globalistic 'brethren'. The killing and plundering goes on, innocents in the 'pipeline' (as this is probably a cause), and yet we stand by and listen to Euro-cratic rubbish, despite common sense in any European country. Who is the blackmailer? The banksters have much to answer in this scenario, and they are Zio's - not necessarily nationals of Israel, but just power-mad greedy satanists, who prey on ordinary people.

Replying to the Ukranian incident/s

[Hervé]

Ukrainian Soldier Confirms: Ukraine’s Military Shot Down Malaysian MH17 Plane (http://fortruss.blogspot.fr/2014/12/ukrainian-soldier-confirms-ukraines.html)

By Eric Zuesse



http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-wbdAoqO4d0U/VJH2c1lKwnI/AAAAAAAAKA4/tiqR2F5b0Sk/s1600/malaysia-airline-mh-17.jpg (http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-wbdAoqO4d0U/VJH2c1lKwnI/AAAAAAAAKA4/tiqR2F5b0Sk/s1600/malaysia-airline-mh-17.jpg)

A Ukrainian soldier who was part of the crew that operated the supposed missile-battery that the Ukrainian Government claims shot down the Malaysian MH17 airliner on July 17th has testified publicly for the first time (http://www.ukrainewar.info/shooting-mh-17-buk-312-story-false-says-ukraine-crew-member/), saying that the missile-battery was operated by the Ukrainian military, not by the rebels as asserted, and that he and his former crew-mates who operated it laughed when they heard their Government say that this missile-battery was operated by rebels and had shot the airliner down.

An English-translated transcript of the December 15th Russian-language interview with this soldier was posted at UkraineWar.Info on December 17th by Michael Collins (http://www.ukrainewar.info/shooting-mh-17-buk-312-story-false-says-ukraine-crew-member/), an investigative journalist with UkraineWar.Info who has been following very closely the multiple investigations that are proceeding into the cause of the downing.

This testimony confirms the accumulating prior, already overwhelming and even-more-convincing evidence, which is linked to in my latest article on the topic, here (http://rinf.com/alt-news/editorials/russian-tv-documentary-claims-identify-shooter-downed-malaysian-airliner-mh17-july-17th/), all of which evidence indicates that either one or else two Ukrainian fighter-jets intentionally shot this airliner down — that it was not an error by rebels who had misidentified this airliner as being a bomber from the Ukrainian Government, such as the Ukrainian Government and its sponsor the U.S. Government claim.

Regarding the reason why the Ukrainian Government did this, it, too, is clear: U.S. President Obama needed a startling incident in order to obtain from the EU and other U.S.-allied nations their participation in heavily increased economic sanctions to weaken Russia. As soon as this plane was downed, both the Ukrainian Government and the Obama Administration claimed that they possessed convincing proof that it had been downed by pro-Russian rebels in Ukraine’s former southeast. All U.S. allies got on board with that and agreed to hiked sanctions against Russia.

This “false flag” event (as such government fakeries are called in the intelligence communities) succeeded, just as did Hitler’s burning down the Reichstag and blaming it on leftists, which was the event that enabled him to seize total power in Germany.


THIS JUST IN (3:21PM Eastern time in U.S.) from Michael Collins: “George [Eliason, a third member of our team at UkraineWar.Info, and a resident inside the conflict-zone] says that due to the pub from the article, the Ukraine govt took down their ‘damning’ pic of BUK 312 today and that the reporter who did the interview is underground and fleeing the country.”

So, the reason why Ukrainians are reluctant to go public about their lying Government is obvious. And, all of the ‘news’ media there are owned by Ukrainian, or, in some cases, by American, oligarchs. (The American ones do it through ‘nonprofit’ foundations they create, which are co-funded by the American Government (http://slavyangrad.org/2014/08/01/ukrainian-journalist-openly-calls-for-genocide-on-hromadske-tv-financed-by-us-and-netherlands/). The U.S. oligarch then gets tax-write-offs, plus co-funding by U.S. taxpayers, to save him still more money on his scheme.)
—————
https://ssl.gstatic.com/ui/v1/icons/mail/images/cleardot.gif

[avid]

Privately-funded oligarchical fighter-jets! Resource-grabbing trouble-making pre-owned 'fighter jets'... and so it goes on, on a greed-fest globalistically-grabbing scale. Buy media, false flags, death to innocents, cause utter havoc, layers of lies, and grab the 'underdog's' resources in the spoils of fake war. Job done, oligarch's spread the costs to the globalists. All the time, over and over, are we not aware by now? So let's block these strategies wherever we see the 'pattern' emerging! Who's next (as Syria is in the throes, and some 'minor' middle-eastern countries for oil, and the African continent being deliberately poisoned by Ebola, so their resources can be 'sequestered' in return for 'aid')?

[jerry]

3boC2D-iviIPutin, Traitor to the NWO
The illuminated Cabal are desperate to start a world war, not only to white wash their scams worldwide so that Wall Street can keep the $40 trillion they stole from us and steal another $20 trillion or more on the Day the Dollar Dies but it’s also to try and stop the public from ever finding out about our true history that has suffered 2,000 years of corruption.
Putin's opposition to the Cabal’s “unipolar world" Code name for NWO is now not only obvious: but more than likely credible.
Russia is under constant attack by the globalists who wish to exploit internal divisions to destabilize Russia and install a Zionist lap dog leader like they have in so many places as was the case with Ukraine.
On the 17 of July 2014 Malaysia Airlines Flight 17 was either shot down or blown up
Close to the border of Ukraine and Russia.
There are now strong speculations that an assassination attempt on Putin’s life was connected to the bringing down of flight 17:
Vladimir Putin was going to travel to South America for the last game of the World Cup and for the Bric’s Conference in Brazil which is a direct attack on the Rothschild-headed Global Banking Cartel's power over the global economy and financial system.
According to Russia's Interfax News Agency, the Presidential State Aircraft IL-96 and a similar sized Boeing 777 (Flight MH17) were traveling along the same route over Poland on the way back from South America.
Putin’s plane and the Malaysian Boeing intersected at the same point and the same echelon. That was close to Warsaw on 330-m echelon at the height of 10,100 meters. “The contours of the aircrafts are similar, linear dimensions are also very similar, as for the colouring, at a quite remote distance they are almost identical”,
But taking the Russian State Aircraft down presented a number of problems. If it were downed over the open ocean, fingers would point at America as the superpower capable of global military action. Host nations did provide considerable security to Putin and his aircraft while he was in their nations and airspace. What better place to attack the IL-96 than over Russian airspace near the Ukraine, shortly after it had left Polish airspace.
As I have mentioned earlier in part one, The Russians have recently developed a new stealth technology or should I say re- development of stealth technology thousands of years old.
Yes you heard correctly thousands of years old.
Russian engineers devised a way to 'stealth' existing non-stealthy aircraft using a plasma system. This system has no doubt been copied by various western powers.
However, no such system is perfect and highly advanced electronic systems can usually detect a stealth aircraft.
They are now working on the black hole project in which the aircraft will disappear completely.
ECM stands for “electronic counter measures”.
The Presidential Russian ECM aircraft can spoof things by turning off or changing its ID squawking and a nearby large aircraft, the Malaysian Airlines Boeing 777 Flight MH17 was spoofed to cover its normal ID code and replace it with the IL-96 code, that probably led to the deaths of 295 people on Malaysian Airlines Flight.
The Russians at this stage have no advantage to 'outing' the true story.
Another conspiracy going around is that the plane was filled up with dead bodies due to the composing of body parts.
Let me tell you if a plane explodes at 33,000 feet and people are plunging down at that altitude they would turn blue and look bloated from the freezing temperatures and the impact.
Interesting to note Malaysian high court finds Israel guilty of war crimes against humanity.
The US/Zionist/Globalist supported and funded coup against the elected Ukraine government and the resulting conflict was a calculated effort to draw Russia into a war over the Ukraine and thereby tie it down in order to allow Netanyahu a free hand to create his long-sought General Middle East War. Putin has proven to be a brilliant strategist and not easy to trap.
Now once again the world wide Cabal owned media has put the blame on Putin as the bogey man.

[jerry]

Former Proteus Airlines boss Marc Dugain claims MH370 may have been shot down by US military near Diego Garcia
A second senior airline industry source has revealed his belief that there is some sort of conspiracy behind the disappearance of Malaysia Airlines flight MH370. As The Herald Sun reports, Emirates president and CEO Sir Tim Clark made world headlines in October when he revealed his doubts about the fate of the missing plane, which disappeared early in the morning of March 8 this year. Now a second senior airline industry source has voiced his doubts about the fate of the plane, with the even wilder claim that the Boeing 777 may have been shot down by US military personnel who were fearing a September 11-style attack on the US Navy base on Diego Garcia

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/former-proteus-airlines-boss-marc-dugain-claims-mh370-may-have-been-shot-down-by-us-military-near-diego-garcia/story-fniztvne-1227164555636?from=google_rss&google_editors_picks=true&nk=6f03489e59bf485fe41d019d5b0061db

[Hervé]

Witness account of Ukraine MH17 takedown confirmed by lie detector – investigators (http://rt.com/news/217295-mh17-ukraine-military-plane/)

Published time: December 24, 2014 09:21
Edited time: December 24, 2014 16:08
Get short URL (http://rt.com/news/217295-mh17-ukraine-military-plane/)


http://cdn.rt.com/files/news/35/0c/f0/00/netherlands-mh17-investigation-documents.si.si.jpg
Emergencies Ministry members walk at the site of a Malaysia Airlines Boeing 777 plane crash, MH17, near the settlement of Grabovo in the Donetsk region, July 17, 2014. (Reuters / Maxim Zmeyev)


Russia’s Investigative Committee has confirmed the claims by a Ukrainian, who said he witnessed the deployment of a Ukrainian warplane armed with air-to-air missiles on the day the Malaysian Airlines flight MH17 was shot down.

The interview was conducted on Tuesday, spokesman for the committee Vladimir Markin told the media on Wednesday.

This followed a report in a Russian newspaper, in which the Ukrainian citizen, who preferred to remain anonymous, voiced his allegations.

The investigators used a polygraph during the interview, which showed no evidence of the witness lying, he added.

“The facts were reported by the witness clearly and with no inconsistencies. The investigators lean towards considering them truthful. A polygraph examination confirmed them too,” the official said.


6TmDNa8lTcI
“According to his account, he personally saw the plane piloted by [Ukrainian military pilot] Voloshin armed with R-60 air-to-air missiles,” Markin said. “He added there was no need for such weapons during regular air missions of the Ukrainian Air Forces because the rebel forces had no military aircraft.”

Markin said that the Investigative Committee will continue gathering and analyzing evidence perpetrating to the downing of MH17 and will share the information with the Netherlands-led international probe into the incident, “if they really interested in establishing the truth and send an inquiry.”

The witness is likely to be taken into protective custody in Russia because his life may be threatened, Markin said.

The Ukrainian Security Service confirmed on Wednesday that a Captain Voloshin does serve as a military pilot in the country’s armed services. But it said he didn’t fly any missions on the day the Malaysian Airlines flight was shot down.

The Russian Investigative Committee invited the Dutch or Malaysian experts to check Voloshin using a polygraph, and Ukraine’s Security Service to provide the military log to the official investigation, Markin said.

“The fact that Ukraine’s Security Service has acknowledged Voloshin’s existence is already an accomplishment,” he said.

Markin suggested the air traffic controllers operating in the area on the day of the catastrophe should also be questioned, adding that they should be “found” first.
“It is clear that all this is very difficult, and probably impossible. It is much easier to call the information and evidence provided by Russia’s Investigative Committee ‘fake’,” he said.

The Russian Defense Ministry made public radar data indicating that a Ukrainian military jet capable of taking down the airliner with an air-to-air missile was in the vicinity of MH17 at the time of the incident.


https://soundcloud.com/rttv/mh17-witnss


The international investigation’s preliminary report said MH17 was downed by an external force, but would not elaborate on the nature of that force, leaving the parties involved free to trade accusations.



READ MORE: Russia to probe media reports that Ukraine military shot down MH17 (http://rt.com/news/216871-ukraine-military-mh17-report/)

READ MORE: Netherlands rejects MH17 relatives' request for UN investigation (http://rt.com/news/212895-mh17-dutch-reject-un/)

[Cidersomerset]

Pictured: The Ukrainian pilot pro-Russian rebels accuse of downing MH17, killing all 298 victims on board

Sunday 11th January 2015 at 09:08 By David Icke


http://www.davidicke.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/get-attachment-403-587x386.jpg

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/sitelogos/logo_mol.gif


Pictured: The Ukrainian pilot pro-Russian rebels accuse of downing MH17, killing all 298
victims on board A picture has emerged of the Ukrainian pilot alleged to have been
the 'executioner' of MH17
The Russian Investigative Committee is calling for Captain Vladislav Voloshin to take a
lie detector test
A'secret witness' say he took off in a combat jet, armed with missiles
When he returned he was 'scared' saying MH17 was in the wrong place
Voloshin has denied that he was involved in the loss of MH17
298 victims lost their lives onboard when MH17 was shot put of the sky

By Will Stewart In Moscow

Published: 11:15, 10 January 2015 | Updated: 13:49, 10 January 2015


http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2015/01/10/248E7FA200000578-0-image-a-2_1420887959999.jpg
This is the first picture of the Ukrainian air force pilot alleged by pro-Russian rebels to
have been the 'executioner' of the 298 victims on board doomed Malaysian Airlines flight MH17


‘This is the first picture of the Ukrainian air force pilot alleged by pro-Russian rebels to
have been the ‘executioner’ of the 298 victims on board doomed Malaysian Airlines flight MH17.

The Russian Investigative Committee – equivalent of the FBI – is calling for Captain
Vladislav Voloshin to take a lie-detector test and face formal questioning, asserting
there is compelling evidence against him which should be considered by the Dutch-
led official probe.

Believed to be in his late 20s, he was named by stems from a ‘secret witness’ at his
Dnipropetrovsk air base who says the pilot took off in his Su-17 combat jet on 17
July last year armed with air-to-air missiles.’

He returned without them soon after the Boeing 777 was blasted out of the sky, it is alleged.

After landing Voloshin was 'scared', muttering that the incoming 'aircraft' -
supposedly MH17 - 'was in the wrong place at the wrong time', according to the
unnamed Ukrainian serviceman, now under guard at a secret location in Russia.

The Investigative Committee, headed by Alexander Bastrykin, a former classmate
of Vladimir Putin, insists that the witness has passed a polygraph test and his
testimony is credible.

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2015/01/10/248E7F9900000578-0-image-a-3_1420887985068.jpg
The Russian Investigative Committee - equivalent of the FBI - is calling for Captain
Vladislav Voloshin to take a lie-detector test and face formal questioning, asserting
there is compelling evidence against him which should be considered by the Dutch-
led official probe

Volshin has not spoken directly on the loss of MH17 but denied through his
superiors that he was responsible. Ukraine blames Russia for a crude propaganda
stunt in naming him.

Since the horror, Moscow has repeatedly claimed that MH17 was shot down by a
Ukrainian warplane in the skies close to the Malaysian plane, while also vigorously
denying the West's analysis that it was hit by a BUK missile fired by pro-Moscow
rebels.

The pro-Moscow rebel media in eastern Ukraine has already branded Voloshin
as 'the pilot who shot down MH17', showing archive footage of him which it
labels 'the future executioner'.


http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2015/01/10/248E7F9D00000578-0-image-a-4_1420887990999.jpg
Believed to be in his late 20s, he was named by stems from a 'secret witness' at his
Dnipropetrovsk air base who says the pilot took off in his Su-17 combat jet on 17
July last year armed with air-to-air missiles

The Investigative Committee, headed by Alexander Bastrykin, a former classmate
of Vladimir Putin, insists that the witness has passed a polygraph test and his
testimony is credible

'Let Voloshin take a lie-detector test with Dutch or Malaysian experts,' demanded
Investigative Committee's spokesman Vladimir Markin.

'Representatives of the Russian Investigative Committee are ready to leave for
Ukraine at short notice with all necessary equipment for testing pilot Voloshin and
all others who might know anything about the crash.'

He demanded that the Ukrainian military should make a full disclosure of its flight
logs on 17 July, the day MH17 was shot down, and allow Russia to interrogate its
air traffic controllers.

Referring to Ukrainian secret services, he said: 'We're waiting for a response from the SBU.'

SBU official Markiyan Lubkivskyi insisted Voloshin was not engaged in combat
flights on 17 July, the day MH17 was downed, and had not used weapons against
aerial targets in the current conflict.

Read more: Pictured: The Ukrainian pilot pro-Russian rebels accuse of downing MH17, killing all 298 victims on board

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2904460/First-pictures-emerge-Ukrainian-pilot-pro-Russian-rebels-believe-downed-MH17-killing-298-victims-board.html#ixzz3OWJ0gf31
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

======================================================
======================================================
======================================================


NATO Trips on Own Lies with U-Turn on ‘Russian Aggressor’

Sunday 11th January 2015 at 07:51 By David Icke


http://www.davidicke.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/NATO-STOLTENBERG-APPEALS-TO-RUSSIA-587x333.jpg


‘NATO’s civilian figurehead Jens Stoltenberg this week urged Russia to be a partner
against terrorism. He was speaking the day after the deadly gun attack on a magazine
in Paris where 12 people, including three police officers, were killed by assailants
purporting to be affiliated with radical Islamists.

During a visit to Germany, the NATO general secretary called upon Moscow to be “an
ally in the fight against terrorism” – adding: “We think it is important that Russia, which
is our biggest neighbor in Europe, and NATO are working together on important issues
like fighting terror.”

Well, how about that for a screeching U-turn? After all, has it not become NATO policy,
since the Ukraine crisis blew up last year, to terminate all security co-operation with
Russia in a bid to ostracize the latter?’

Read more: NATO Trips on Own Lies with U-Turn on ‘Russian Aggressor’

http://www.strategic-culture.org/news/2015/01/10/nato-trips-on-own-lies-with-u-turn-on-russian-aggressor.html

[ghostrider]

Looks like a classic fall guy scenario ...

[Cidersomerset]

Lavrov Says West Forgot About MH17 Boeing Crash Investigation

Wednesday 14th January 2015 at 09:14 By David Icke

http://www.davidicke.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/get-attachment-282-587x396.jpg



‘The West has forgotten about the investigation into the Malaysian passenger
airline crash over eastern Ukraine and should at least issue a preliminary
report, Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov said Monday.

“The West announced sectoral sanctions [against Russia] over the Malaysian
Boeing catastrophe, but now our Western colleagues have completely forgotten
about this problem and only Russia is trying to remind [them] that it wouldn’t
be bad if they at least announced the preliminary results of the investigation
and explain why the investigation is being conducted with gross breaches in
norms that are accepted in such occasions by the International Civilian Aviation
Orgnization,” Lavrov said during a joint press conference with
Latvian Foreign Minister Edgars Rinkēvičs.’

Read more: Lavrov Says West Forgot About MH17 Boeing Crash Investigation

http://sputniknews.com/politics/20150112/1016793738.html

[Cidersomerset]

Reflections on MH17

Sunday 18th January 2015 at 09:25 By David Icke

http://www.davidicke.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/get-attachment-814-587x440.jpg


fwC9RJopkHU


Published on 16 Jan 2015


The tragedy of MH17 in which 298 people lost their lives, made the conflict
in Ukraine real for many other countries. While the international community
awaits the outcome of the crash investigation, speculation in the media
continues to fuel the blame game. RTD travels far and wide to interview
international experts on what has hindered the investigation, what procedures
were needed to collect vital evidence and what might have brought down
the ill-fated Boeing 777.

[ExomatrixTV]

c6p7xvfkfkw

[Harley]

HOAX

Old footage from Iran, circa 2011


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MOnsIGcZS-M

Sorry! :)

[Rocky_Shorz]

. :Bump:

[Taurean]

For the crew to not be able to get a mayday out in the 8 minutes it took to descend suggests something catastrophic has occurred in or around the cockpit.


whoops, wrong thread

[Sophocles]

Maybe one should try a polygraph test on Reuters reporter also?


‘Reuters lied’: MH17 witness says reporter falsified testimony


Published time: March 30, 2015 08:30
Edited time: March 30, 2015 15:01

A Lugansk Region resident, whom Reuters cites as saying he saw evidence of a surface-to-air missile launched from rebel-held territory on the day MH17 was downed, told RT the news agency gave a false report of his interview.

As a part of a March report on the Malaysian Airlines flight MH17 tragedy Reuters talked to Pyotr Fedotov, a 58-year-old resident of the village Chervonniy Zhovten in the Lugansk Region of eastern Ukraine.

“When interviewed by Reuters, Fedotov, the witness who described the 'wiggling' rocket, at first said on camera that it was fired from territory held by the Ukrainian army. Later, off camera, he said it was launched from a nearby rebel area. Asked why he had originally said the opposite, he said it was because he was afraid of the rebels," the news agency said.

RT contacted Fedotov who, after some persuasion, agreed to be filmed. He told RT that Reuters correspondent Anton Zverev was "less than accurate" with Fedotov's testimony.

“When we talked about the Boeing on camera, I explained everything as it was. The things that I allegedly said off-camera were just made up by the journalist. It's all lies. Off-camera, we never discussed the Boeing,” Fedotov told RT.

Link: http://rt.com/news/245141-reuters-witness-misreport-mh17/

Exclusive: From 'Red October' village, new evidence on downing of Malaysian plane over Ukraine


Thu Mar 12, 2015 11:34am EDT

When interviewed by Reuters, Fedotov, the witness who described the 'wiggling' rocket, at first said on camera that it was fired from territory held by the Ukrainian army. Later, off camera, he said it was launched from a nearby rebel area. Asked why he had originally said the opposite, he said it was because he was afraid of the rebels.

He gave a Reuters reporter directions to a field 1.5 km from the village, which he said had been identified to him by local farm workers as the point from which the missile battery had launched the rocket.

When Reuters visited the site in February, there were no signs of any missile launch.

Link: http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/03/12/us-ukraine-crisis-airliner-idUSKBN0M81XF20150312

Ukraine: Reuters 'invented' my statement says MH-17 crash witness

LCDicyp9CyQ

[Cidersomerset]

A little bit more indepth version of above vid

aCfLiiDmw8k

Published on 30 Mar 2015


RT talks on camera to a man, who's alleged 'off camera' account became the basis for media speculation into why flight MH17 crashed in Ukraine.

[Cidersomerset]

​MH17 investigation going off in ‘wrong direction’ could embarrass ‘many powerful people’

new Wednesday 1st April 2015 at 10:29 By David Icke


http://www.davidicke.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/get-attachment-13-587x386.jpg


‘There is so much political pressure over the MH17 crash in Ukraine that investigators would
rather conclude that no one really knows what happened than make several powerful people
look foolish, believes Robert Parry, editor of Consortium News.

More than eight months since Malaysia Airlines flight MH17 was shot down above war-torn
eastern Ukraine, speculation in international media is only adding fuel to the blame game,
while no actual evidence to back claims has been released.

The US intelligence community is failing to share its own discoveries into the crash, fearing
it will lead the investigation in the “wrong” direction, Robert Parry told RT.’

Read more: ​MH17 investigation going off in ‘wrong direction’ could embarrass ‘many powerful people’

http://rt.com/op-edge/245441-mh17-us-intelligence-lies/

[Slorri]

I've not seen any evidence that plane was shot down.
What they should address are the bloated, naked, misplaced bodies, filled with green-glowing embalming fluids; And the stench. And the delivery of new passports.

[Flash]

I've not seen any evidence that plane was shot down.
What they should address are the bloated, naked, misplaced bodies, filled with green-glowing embalming fluids; And the stench. And the delivery of new passports.

all your points are good for what should be questioned, but check from the beginning of this thread here and you may find evience for the plane having been shot down as well.

[Snookie]

I just ran across a very interesting tidbit in an article I was reading about a Russian born man who emigrated to Canada, and returned for a visit. He recounts what a friend told him while he was there.

"Yakovlev added an interesting and personal caveat to the MH17 tragedy. He was in the air on a commercial flight from Athens to Moscow on July 17th at the same time of the MH17 incident. Being a retired Spetsnaz officer, he has excellent working knowledge of a variety of Soviet and NATO airplanes as well as specific flight signatures and protocols. He also is knowledgeable in commercial and military flight ceilings and corridors in and around the RF. While on board his flight from Greece, he noticed a fighter plane roar past them at high speed and within a few kilometers of their commercial plane. Yakovlev knew very well that this was not typical, nor was it something that could be easily chalked up to human error. He admits that he was concerned and most curious as to the nature of that rogue plane.

Upon reaching his home in Ryazan, he went online to track the flight plans and radar trajectories of airplanes in that area at the time of their flight. He said the interesting thing was that immediately afterwards there was a flight path that was recorded by a non-scheduled aircraft in that exact vicinity. He confirmed his report with military intelligence. Not more that 24 hours later the flight had been removed from the internet record."

The whole article on Russia is extremely interesting, but to lengthy to copy. Here is the link.
http://thesaker.is/to-russia-with-love/

[Hervé]

Russian investigators reveal identity of key witness in MH17 crash (http://rt.com/news/264545-mh17-investigators-key-witness/)

Published time: June 03, 2015 09:19
Edited time: June 03, 2015 15:15

Reuters / Maxim Zmeyev

Download video (http://img.rt.com/files/news/40/96/10/00/investigation.mp4?event=download) (58.12 MB)


The Russian Investigative Committee has identified a key witness to the MH17 crash in Ukraine’s Donetsk Region. He is Evgeny Agapov, an aviation armaments mechanic in the Ukrainian Air Force.

The man is currently under Russian state protection.


http://rt.com/files/news/40/96/10/00/investigation-2.jpg
Screenshot from Russian Investigative Committee video



“As now there is new evidence of the reliability of the words of the witness, as well as various reports concerning the doubts of certain media outlets about the real existence of this witness, we decided to disclose [the name of the witness],” Investigative Committee spokesman Vladimir Markin said.


http://rt.com/files/news/40/96/10/00/investigation-1.jpg
Screenshot from Russian Investigative Committee video


Agapov, a Ukrainian citizen, was serving as a military mechanic in the first squadron of the Ukrainian Air Force’s tactical aviation brigade.

According to Markin, the man “voluntarily crossed the state border of the Russian Federation and expressed a desire to cooperate with the Russian investigation.”

Agapov has testified that on July 17, 2014, a Ukrainian Sukhoi Su-25 jet aircraft piloted by one Captain Voloshin “set out for a military task,” Markin said.


http://rt.com/files/news/40/96/10/00/markin.jpg
Head of the Media Relations department of the Russian Investigative Committee Vladimir Markin (RIA Novosti / Alexander Natruskin)


The aircraft returned to the airfield with empty ammunition. To his colleagues, Voloshin said that the plane was "at the wrong time or in the wrong place,” said the Investigative Committee spokesman.

“Our jets were flying regularly,” Agapov said in his testimony. “When one returned, the pilot, Captain Voloshin, got out of the cockpit.” He added that, as Captain Voloshin walked away with the other pilots, Agapov heard him say: “That was the wrong plane.”

“In the evening we learned that a passenger Boeing was shot down that day,” the witness said.

He said that on that day, July 17, the soldiers together with Agapov were “servicing another jet, attaching its payload.”

“Nearby was Flight Control Officer Dyakin, Captain Voloshin and two other pilots. Dyakin asked Voloshin: ‘What happened with the plane?’ He said, ‘It was in the wrong place at the wrong time.’”

On Tuesday, Russian arms manufacturer Almaz-Altey announced the results of its own probe into the MH17 tragedy. They say that the crash could only have been caused by one of the missiles from BUK’s older line of defense systems, the BUK-M1. These missiles are widely deployed by a number of post-Soviet states, including Ukraine, but have been replaced by a newer model in Russia.

“If a surface-to-air missile system was used [to hit the plane], it could only have been a 9M38M1 missile of the BUK-M1 system,” Almaz-Antey said in a statement.
In the meantime, Almaz-Antey’s experts said they had not “theoretically” excluded the possibility that the Boeing was hit by another type of weapon, such as an air-to-air missile. They cautioned that that final conclusions could only be drawn after all the necessary forensic tests had been conducted by the official investigative commission.

The Malaysia Airlines flight MH17, with 298 passengers on board, crashed on July 17, 2014 in the Donetsk Region of eastern Ukraine. The Boeing was en route from Amsterdam to Kuala Lumpur, and the majority of its victims were Dutch citizens.

Dutch forensic experts are leading the investigation into the causes of the tragedy. However, they have so far released only a preliminary report, in which they said that the plane “broke up in mid-air due to external damage.”

Read more:
MH17 likely downed by old BUK-M1 missile system not used by Russia – manufacturer (http://rt.com/news/264421-buk-missile-manufacturer-investigation/)

MH17 probe looking for witnesses to back ‘Buk missile’ scenario (http://rt.com/news/245449-mh17-crash-buk-investigation)

[Cidersomerset]

MH17 crash: Russian investigators reveal identity of 'key witness' Raw

tLMkwsMe304

Published on 3 Jun 2015


The Russian Investigative Committee has identified a key witness to the MH17 crash in
Ukraine’s Donetsk Region. He is Evgeny Agapov, an aviation armaments mechanic in
the Ukrainian Air Force. READ MORE:

=============================================

Russian investigators reveal identity of key witness in MH17 crash

_5tivWzfzjA

Published on 3 Jun 2015


The Russian Investigative Committee has identified a key witness to the MH17 crash in
Ukraine’s Donetsk Region. He is Evgeny Agapov, an aviation armaments mechanic in
the Ukrainian Air Force.

[Sophocles]

MH 17 Case and testimony of the main witness (eng subs):

2hnYeD77MZo

[Cidersomerset]

Twitter Users Find Ukrainian Buk-M1 System After Kiev Denies Existence

Tuesday 9th June 2015 at 09:39 By ickonic


http://www.davidicke.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/1023056534-587x317.jpg


‘Twitter users found an announcement on the Ukrainian Ministry of Defense website detailing
the transfer of a Buk-M1 system to the Ukrainian military over a month before the MH17 disaster.
Twitter users found a June 6, 2014 announcement on the Ukrainian Ministry of Defense website
(archived copy) detailing the handover of a Buk-M1 surface-to-air missile system to Ukraine’s
military from a Kharkov repair facility.

Ukrainian President Petro Poroshenko’s advisor denied on Thursday that Ukraine possessed any
Buk-M1 systems at the time of the July 17, 2014 Malaysia Airlines MH17 crash. On Tuesday,
surface-to-air missile system manufacturer Almaz-Antey presented a report which indicated
that a Buk-M1 missile, operated by the Ukrainian military, was likely responsible for the disaster.’

Read more: Twitter Users Find Ukrainian Buk-M1 System After Kiev Denies Existence


http://sputniknews.com/europe/20150607/1023057320.html

[Baby Steps]

From an imaginary Russian insider:

We had heard from some of our sources, none reliable, that a plane was to be used to attack us, either with a nuclear device on board, a dirty bomb or some kind of biological weapon. The object would be to trigger full warfare in Ukraine, as our people would have concluded that the attack originated in Ukraine. The momentum would have been unstoppable.
We suspected that MH70 was at Diego Garcia and knew that another Malaysian 777 was in Israel. These planes ‘did not exist’ so using them for an attack was relatively easy for the West to contrive.
We also knew that such a flight could have a small bomb on board, and could be used to fake a Russian shoot-down, which would likely have tipped the Ukraine conflict over the edge.
With sketchy information our planners concluded that if such a flight was identified it should be brought down if possible over Ukraine, so that the incident could be passed off in the fog of war. However it was not possible to be confident in the BUK systems we had in place , especially with multiple aircraft.
So our plan was that should the flight be identified, BUKs would be launched, but our fighters would enter Ukrainian airspace to ensure that the plane did go down as soon as possible. If the plane was escorted it was hoped that the BUKs would bring down or drive off the escorting planes.

Our plan swung into effect when MH17 appeared on our screens with two smaller signatures, probably fighter jets. The presence of escorting fighters is of course completely abnormal for a civilian flight. We informed our allies in Novorussiya that an escorted Antonov was approaching and it was to be brought down immediately. We scrambled our fighters and entered their airspace once the Ukrainian Air Force jets were gone (one shot down and one turned back). We further believed that something was very wrong as shortly after passing Kiev, the plane diverted from its normal path towards the Black Sea and Georgia, towards the war zone, and the large population centre of Volgograd just beyond there.
Unfortunately, we found no evidence of any nuclear or biological device on board, and realised that our sources had fed us mis information in order to try to drag Russia further into the conflict in the eyes of the Western propaganda machine.
We did however have the opportunity to take genetic samples from some of the bodies and have positively identified two Chinese citizens from the MH70 flight. We have a copy of the Black box recording including Pilot dialogue confirming the presence of the Sukhoi escorts, and the instruction to divert over the war zone.

30264

http://www.globalresearch.ca/major-anti-russian-false-flag-coming/5419963

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article39341.htm

[Cidersomerset]

Malaysian Pressure Forces The MH17 Investigation to UN Adjudication

By ickonic on 28th June 2015 Problem-Reaction-Solution, War and Terror

http://www.davidicke.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/get-attachment-2823.jpg

==========================================================


https://store.globalresearch.ca/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/logo_store.png


Malaysian Pressure Forces The MH17 Investigation to UN Adjudication

By Eric Zuesse

Global Research, June 27, 2015

http://www.globalresearch.ca/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/MH17-INVESTIGATION5-400x266.jpg

‘Malaysia, frustrated by the refusal of the official international investigation-team to
produce any clear evidence yet of whom to blame for the downing of the MH17
Malaysian airliner over the Ukrainian civil-war zone on 17 July 2014, has finally forced
the team to request the UN to investigate. They’ve forced the original four nations on
the team to accept UN adjudication of any final report.

This will enable a court-proceeding to make the ultimate determination of guilt (upon
which judgment penalties and compensation will be assessed), and this court-
determination would inevitably allow whatever party is being blamed by the five-member
official investigating team, to present its own evidence in the case, so that the court will
make the ultimate determination — the official investigating team will not be performing
that crucial judgmental function.’

http://www.globalresearch.ca/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/mh17pilot1.jpg

Malaysia was long prohibited from even participating in this investigational team, but on 5
November 2014, a deal was finally reached with the four nations that did comprise the team
— four U.S. allies: Netherlands, Australia, Belgium, and (a suspect in possibly having downed
the MH17) Ukraine itself (though it had lost none of its citizens in the disaster) — so, the next
day, Malaysia’s New Straits Times headlined “Malaysia to join MH17 criminal probe team,” a
nd reported that, “The prime minister said the country had been invited to play a bigger role
in the recovery and investigation of the ill-fated aircraft, believed to have been downed by a
missile over eastern Ukraine on July 17.”

The Malaysian report went on then, pointedly, to note: “In July, the Dutch and Ukrainian
authorities agreed that the bulk of the operations would be carried out by the Netherlands,
with assistance from countries whose citizens were on board the flight. Malaysia had repeatedly
asked to be part of the joint investigation team, currently comprising investigators from the
Netherlands, Belgium, Australia and Ukraine.” Implicitly, that phrase “Malaysia had repeatedly
asked to be part of the investigating team” said that Malaysia had consistently been refused
membership until 5 November 2014. In fact, even by late November of 2014, Malaysia
continued to be refused membership, and I headlined on November 30th, “Malaysia Becomes
Angry About Exclusion from MH17 Investigation.”

That refusal was especially outrageous because, like three of the four nations that already were
on the team, Malaysia had lost (44) citizens from the downing. But in addition, Malaysia had
lost the plane, from it. There was no excuse for the four pro-Western nations to exclude
Malaysia, and for their limiting the investigating-team to only Ukraine (a key suspect in the
downing) and three of its allies. And, between November and now, Malaysia has finally become
so fed-up with the team’s continuing refusal to act, and to declare the culprit, so that the rest
of the team finally consented to Malaysia’s demand to transfer the investigation over to the UN.

On 24 June 2015, Agence France Press, a mouthpiece for yet another Western nation (France),
bannered, “Netherlands, Malaysia push for UN tribunal for MH17 culprits,” and Thailand’s
Bangkok Post headlined this same story more honestly and directly, as “Malaysia demands UN
court for MH17 shootdown,” but carried unchanged the anti-Russian-slanted AFP text. The
anti-Russian-slanted AFP ‘news’ report said “It remains unclear, however, whether Russia
would back the creation of the special tribunal” (something which they could also have said
of the U.S., for example) and included a sub-head: “- Getting Russia on board -,” which section
had only this brief and anonymously sourced reference to Russia: “The diplomat [unidentified]
said the countries were mindful of the need to ‘avoid a Russian veto’ [as if a Russian veto would
have been likelier than an American one, etc.].” That’s propaganda for a regime, not news-reporting
for a democracy — it delivers the bias (to whip up support for war), along with its sugar-coated
pro-regime facts.

The present writer has already set forth the conclusive evidence that Ukraine downed this airliner,
and that the reason Ukraine did it — intentionally, not at all by mistake — was in order to enable the
U.S. to blame Russia for it and thus get the EU to hike economic sanctions against Russia. Adolf
Hitler’s Nazi Germany isn’t the only nation in history that has used what the intelligence trade calls
“false-flag attacks” in order to blame the nations that it itself aims to attack. The U.S. has perfected
that technique.

Russia was framed for the downing of MH17, which was a U.S. job carried out by the Ukrainian Air
Force. (The EU knows that the U.S. has a mega-criminal government, but they go along with it,
thinking that their aristocrats will get some of the loot that’s being yanked off by America’s aristocrats.
They do this though 206 of the murdered passengers were EU citizens. And Netherlands,which provided
the U.S. key assistance in the buildup to overthrowing Ukraine’s democracy, lost the most people in it,
which just goes to show on which side Dutch aristocrats stand — it’s not the Dutch public’s side.)

Finally, Malaysia is having some success in pulling this criminal investigation away from the clearly
proven criminal (Ukraine — which now is itself a U.S. client-state) and its friends.

Anyone who believes Western ‘news’ media about international affairs is simply laying his mind out to
be raped by agents of the local nation’s aristocracy. Almost everything has become propaganda now.
Honest journalism is squelched, if not strangled.

That’s why, if you’ll google the headline of this news-report, none of the major mainstream and
alternative’ ‘news’ sites will likely come up — though it has been sent to all of them.

Investigative historian Eric Zuesse is the author, most recently, of They’re Not Even Close: The
vs. Republican Economic Records, 1910-2010, and of CHRIST’S VENTRILOQUISTS: The Event
that Created Christianity, and of Feudalism, Fascism, Libertarianism and Eco

Read more: Malaysian Pressure Forces The MH17 Investigation to UN Adjudication
http://www.globalresearch.ca/malaysian-pressure-forces-the-mh17-investigation-to-un-adjudication/5458696

[Cidersomerset]

The MH17 Airline Crash: Methodology of an International Cover-Up

By ickonic on 4th July 2015 Coverups, War and Terror


http://www.davidicke.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/get-attachment-13.jpg


‘Investigative journalists’ inquiries into the facts behind the fateful crash
of Malaysia Airlines on Flight MH17 on July 17, 2014 are being stonewalled
by all of the directly and indirectly implicated parties. The discourse is
dominated by political and geopolitical positioning and scapegoating with
the aid of “partial” not independently verifiable “evidence”. Everything,
including law, suggests that all parties are interested in denying
investigative journalists access to verifiable, testable evidence.’

Read more: The MH17 Airline Crash: Methodology of an International Cover-Up

http://nsnbc.me/2015/07/03/mh17-the-methodology-of-an-international-cover-up/

[Hervé]

Finally!

Someone has been looking at the facts (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?73055-Malaysian-Plane-MH17-shot-down-with-over-295-on-board.-But-by-who&p=875061&viewfull=1#post875061)!


Israeli-made air-to-air missile may have downed MH17 - report (http://www.rt.com/news/310039-mh17-israeli-missile-version/#.VafYQTa-LFE.facebook)

Published time: 16 Jul, 2015 16:06
Get short URL (http://on.rt.com/6n87)


http://img.rt.com/files/2015.07/original/55a77988c46188c9028b456f.jpg
https://img.rt.com/files/2015.07/original/55a77988c46188c9028b456f.jpg


A report on Malaysian Airlines MH17 air disaster in Ukraine last year by a group of old-hand aviation security experts maintains that the Boeing might have been downed by an Israeli Python air-to-air missile.

The report was leaked via the private LiveJournal account of Albert Naryshkin (aka albert_lex) late on Tuesday and has already been widely discussed by social media communities in Russia.

The authors of the investigative report have calculated the possible detonation initiation point of the missile that hit the passenger aircraft and approximate number and weight of strike elements, which in turn designated the type and presumed manufacturer of the weapon.


http://img.rt.com/files/2015.07/original/55a776aac46188ff028b456d.jpg
https://img.rt.com/files/2015.07/original/55a776aac46188ff028b456d.jpg


Malaysian Airline Boeing 777-200 performing flight MH17 from Amsterdam to Kuala Lumpur on July 17, 2014, crashed on the territory of Ukraine near the village of Grabovo, killing all 283 passengers and 15 crew members aboard.

The aircraft disintegrated in the air and the debris of MH17 were scattered across an area of about 50 sq. km.

The external view of MH17 hull pieces indicates that “fragments of the pilots’ cockpit have suffered specific damages in the form of localized puncture holes and surface dents typical for hypervelocity impacts with compact and hard objects,” the report says, stressing that similar damage could be found on the inner side of the cockpit.

The report specifically points out that chips of the body coat around the holes in the fragment are typical of wave effects created by hypervelocity impacts.


http://img.rt.com/files/2015.07/original/55a77f18c46188c6028b4592.jpg
https://img.rt.com/files/2015.07/original/55a77f18c46188c6028b4592.jpg


Some damage, though larger and less clustered, could be found near the air-scoop of the left-wing engine of the aircraft.

The nature of the damage allows for the identification of the source as a high-explosive fragmentation warhead from a modern anti-aircraft weapon, claims the report.

Apart from the large puncture holes, the debris of the nose and the cockpit of the aircraft bear a large number of scattered micro-craters resulting from the impact of high-velocity dust and tiny debris, such as an unburnt blasting agent and elements of the ordnance that accompany a shock wave from a blast that occurred very close to the target. In the case of MH17, the pilots’ cockpit.

The report says that as a rule, the initial speed of the striking elements of modern anti-aircraft weapons vary between 1,500 and 2,500 meters per second.


http://img.rt.com/files/2015.07/original/55a78120c46188c8028b4586.jpg
https://img.rt.com/files/2015.07/original/55a78120c46188c8028b4586.jpg



Altogether, the experts considered photos of five fragments of the cockpit and left port of the flight MH17, on which they counted some 230 “battle-damage” holes and punctures.

All this considered, the experts claim that the exact zone of the blast impact could be established with a fair degree of accuracy.

The warhead of the missile exploded very close to the cockpit, to its left side at a distance of 0.8-1.6 meters from the cockpit windows, exactly opposite the sliding window of the aircraft commander.


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https://img.rt.com/files/2015.07/original/55a7812cc46188c4028b458a.jpg


The dimensions and character of the puncture holes left by the strike elements allegedly allow their size and form factor to be established, which in its turn makes it possible to identify the type of weapon used in a particular case.

The cross dimension of absolute majority, 86 percent, of the 186 hull holes studied by experts measure between 6 and 13mm, with explicit maximum of them having cross dimension of 8mm.


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https://img.rt.com/files/2015.07/original/55a78145c46188c5028b458d.jpg


This fact brought the expert group to a conclusion about the size of the strike elements of the warhead. If the warhead had been armed with two types of strike elements, the majority of the holes would have been of two types, the reports notes.

The strike element has been established of being a rectangular block measured 8mm x 8mm x 6mm, with margin of error of 0.5 mm, a high probability it was made of steel and an estimated weight of 3 grams each. The total number of such elements should have varied between 2,000 and 4,000.

The bulk of the strike elements are estimated between 4.88 – 14.8 kilograms.

The report confutes the argument of Russia’s Almaz-Antey military concern that early claimed that “intricate shape” double-t steel fragments, similar to those used in warheads of surface-to-air Buk missile systems, have been extracted from the debris of MH17 flight.

Howwever, the double-t strike elements of a Buk missile weigh 8.1 grams, more than twice as much as a single damage fragment among those that pierced MH17’s hull. Thus, according to the report, the hypothesis about a Buk missile system being involved in the crash is “most probably incorrect.”

With 95 percent probability, the group of experts estimates the weight of the missile’s warhead (explosives plus strike elements) that shot down MH17 of being between 10 and 40kg.


http://img.rt.com/files/2015.07/original/55a7816ec46188c9028b4596.jpg
https://img.rt.com/files/2015.07/original/55a7816ec46188c9028b4596.jpg


This led the experts to determine the exact type of the weapon used against Malaysian Airlines flight MH17.

The report says that that Soviet- and Russian-made surface-to-air missile systems use more powerful warheads than the established maximum 40kg, as is the case with MH17.

Moreover, Soviet- and Russian-made air-to-air missiles which have a similar 10-40kg warhead capability use other types of strike elements within one warhead - obviously not the case with MH17.

A whole range of existing foreign air-to-air missiles have corresponding warhead characteristics, yet lack of physical elements of the missile used against MH17 prevented experts from establishing the exact type of the weapon used.

Still, the circumstances and conditions of the assault allowed experts to make certain assumptions.


http://img.rt.com/files/2015.07/original/55a78164c46188ff028b4584.jpg


https://img.rt.com/files/2015.07/original/55a78164c46188ff028b4584.jpg


The missile that attacked MH17 had a passive radar homing head, which explains why the missile exploded so close to the cockpit. Under the radar-transparent nosecone of a Boeing 777-200 there is a surveillance radar station operable during the flight, so most likely the missile homed on to this radar as the target.

Apart from a radar homing head, the missile could also be equipped with an advanced, matrix type, imaging IR seeker, which enables the missile to determine the size and the type of the target and choose for attack its most vital element. For a huge Boeing aircraft, that’s the cockpit.

A simulation of the missile attack has proved that missiles with that type of guidance choose to attack a big passenger plane from the front hemisphere.

There are four air-to-air missiles that fit the description established by the experts, namely: French Magis-2, Israeli Shafrir, American AIM-9 and Israeli Python – all short-range.

The first three have been struck off the list for various reasons, including type of warhead or guidance system specifications. The Python deserved a closer look.

The Python is equipped with a matrix-imaging IR seeker. It enables a relatively moderate power warhead to effectively engage big aircrafts. The warhead is armed with a set of ready strike elements. Even more importantly, some open military sources suggest that in early 2000s a number of Sukhoi Su-25 assault fighter jets we refurbished to use fourth and fifth generation Python missiles, which look very similar to the Su-25’s standard air-to-air R-60 missile.


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https://img.rt.com/files/2015.07/original/55a785bdc46188c8028b45a4.jpg


The unofficial report leaked in LiveJournal has become yet another one among many other unofficial versions presented over the year that has passed since the catastrophe occurred on July 17, 2014.

The Dutch Safety Board that has been heading an international investigation into the cause of the crash is due to release its official report in October.

[Hervé]

SOTT.net comment (http://www.sott.net/article/299103-Russian-aviation-experts-Israeli-made-Python-air-to-air-missile-fired-from-Israeli-upgraded-Su-25-Scorpion-may-have-downed-MH17) on the above article:


Comment: When you combine this information about the probable missile being Israeli-made with the information Sott.net found about Su-25s having been upgraded by an Israeli firm...

'MH17 Who Dunnit? Western Media Silent on the Evidence (http://www.sott.net/article/284868-MH17-Who-Dunnit-Western-Media-Silent-on-the-Evidence)', published on Sept 1st, 2014:
The Russians have stated that the jet they spotted on radar near MH17 at the time of the crash was most likely an Su-25. The Su-25 basic model is a rather 'dated' fighter aircraft that does not have a pressurized cockpit meaning that flying for any length of time above its operational ceiling of 7,000 meters is problematic for the pilot (MH17 was at 10,000 meters). The standard SU-25 also has fairly basic instruments and weapons, with only a laser guidance system for rocket and canon fire which, apart from being designed for ground target acquisition, has an error range of up to 13 feet (https://books.google.fr/books?id=wsWcAwAAQBAJ&pg=PA26&lpg=PA26&dq=Klyon+PS+laser+ranger&source=bl&ots=Fbxzzl8el5&sig=Rmbwk0TuuyZ2S5eGCuqjXa_fw8s&hl=en&sa=X&ei=bnsEVPGxLIrdoASQiYHQCg#v=onepage&q=Klyon%20PS%20laser%20ranger&f=false). If the Su-25 came no closer than 3-5 kms and was only equipped with laser guidance, accurate targeting of the cockpit would not have been possible... with a standard Su-25.

Since the 1970s, several variants of the Su-25 have been produced, the most recent of which is the Su-25KM 'Scorpion' (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZAszf4XPTFo) which was announced in early 2001 by the original manufacturer, Tbilisi Aircraft Manufacturing in Georgia, in partnership with Elbit Systems of Israel.

The aircraft uses a standard Su-25 airframe, enhanced with advanced avionics including a glass cockpit, digital map generator, helmet-mounted display, computerized weapons system, complete mission pre-plan capability, and fully redundant backup modes. Performance enhancements include a highly accurate navigation system, pinpoint weapon delivery systems, all-weather and day/night performance, NATO compatibility, state-of-the art safety and survivability features [...]

[Cidersomerset]

Good articles Herv'e......The Ukranian air force has the plane and the missile and
the motive to cause a 'false flag' to blame the rebels. Aim ? To ultimately blame
Russia, escalate the conflict to bring NATO ground troops and air offensives against
rebels and Russia if she reacted thus creating a conflict that could escalate into
war. Which the Neo - Cons in the US with Israeli support have been trying to do, if
you listen to rhetoric of many Republicans senators and others.

In this clip from 2010 the questioner hits some cords with Zionist puppet Sen Mc
Caine before being blown off and saved by another questioner. But NWO ,
Organised crime 'Banksters' all connected , Rothchilds also mentioned ? ...... Same
Old names behind the scenes..Many dots can be connected going back decades......


0LYhmc2VD-0
Uploaded on 17 Jul 2010
John McCain and Jeff Gates, townhall meeting, discussing organized crime, Tempe Arizona, July 2010
http://www.bollyn.com/the-zionist-criminal-network/#article_15156


http://www.davidicke.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/1280x720xget-attachment-354.jpg.pagespeed.ic._Le7pR7olv.jpg
http://www.prisonplanet.com/us-preparing-coup-to-prevent-greece-from-falling-under-russian-influence.html


========================================================
========================================================


http://i.imgur.com/T9Zv1qN.jpg?

http://airheadsfly.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/su25ukraine09_ukrainianairforce.jpg

http://airheadsfly.com/2014/03/01/overview-air-forces-ukraine/

http://www.bollyn.com/public/scorpion-2.jpg

http://www.bollyn.com/the-zionist-criminal-network/#article_15156


http://www.airwar.ru/image/idop/attack/su25km/su25km-2.jpg

http://gunm.ru/news/usovershenstvovannyj_shturmovik_su_25sm/2011-08-23-474



http://www.sott.net/image/s10/203796/full/MH_17_Russia.jpg



Very good video Herv'e............." Advanced debriefing capabilities " There
must be a mission tape somewhere ? Or as in all the best ' false flags ' The
cameras were not working ...LOL

ZAszf4XPTFo

[Sophocles]

MH17 couldn’t be shot from rebel areas, West pressuring investigators – Russian Air Agency (http://www.rt.com/news/310057-malaysian-flight-mh17-investigators/)

Published time: 16 Jul, 2015 23:16

(RT)Malaysian flight MH17 couldn’t have been shot by a ground-to-air missile from the areas controlled by eastern Ukrainian rebels, said Russian Federal Air Transport Agency, adding that West is putting pressure upon investigators to get conclusions it wants.

“If the missile, as Western authorities claim, were sent from Snezhnoe area [controlled by the rebels], then according to all experts and specialists, it would have been detected by radar station in Rostov-on –Don [region in Russia which borders on Donetsk Region],” Deputy chief of Russia’s Federal Air Transport Agency Oleg Storchevoy said during a briefing on MH17 investigation Thursday.

He also added that if the missile that targeted the Malaysian plane was sent from Zaroshchenskое town which was at that time controlled by Kiev troops, specialists say that “the radars would have recorded neither the launch, nor the movement of the missile towards the plane.”

According to Storchevoy, Russian Air Transport Agency believes that the factors pointing at the downing of the plane by air-to-air or ground-to-air missile “are obvious and they are present.”

The investigators who are preparing the final report on the tragedy should also investigate the version that Malaysian plane crash could have been caused by air-to-air missile, he said.

Storchevoy added that there are “numerous records from plane crash witnesses, saying that they saw a military aircraft in the sky at the moment of MH17 crash.”

He reminded that earlier in July Russian aviation experts published the results of their own investigation, saying that MH17 was probably downed by air-to-air missile, but not a Russian made one.

The version of air-to-air missile is also considered to be a priority one by the Russian Investigative Committee.

The deputy chief of Russia’s Federal Air Transport Agency also commented on the conclusions made by Russian military manufacturer Almaz-Antey, who said that if the flight was downed by a ground-to-air missile, it was Buk-M1 missile system. However, they added at the time that an air-to-air missile variant is also possible.

“We presented all the reports by Almaz-Antey manufacturer to international investigators during one of our meetings,” Storchevoy said, adding that the manufacturer’s investigation “is not a confirmation that the aircraft was downed exactly by Buk-M1 missile, but a consideration of possible version of a catastrophe.”

“Other variants of the downing of the plane are not rejected,” he added.

Russia the only country that published data on MH17 crash

Russia has questions why Ukraine and the US didn’t release the data concerning Malaysian plane crash, said Storchevoy, adding that Russia is the first and only country that published its data on the tragedy.

The Russian Defense Ministry held a briefing several days after Malaysian jet crash, where it presented all of its satellite data concerning the catastrophe.

Russia has sent international investigators “all the data which was asked from us,” including that from radars in Rostov. No other country has published the data it had on Malaysian jet crash, said Storchevoy.

“There are no documents from Ukraine, concerning the negotiations of the military on the day of the crash, no military flights schedule, no reports on availability and expenditure of the surface-to-air missiles, no satellite images from the US.”

Moreover, Russian experts were not invited to participate in the international investigation into the tragedy of the Malaysian Boeing, despite Moscow’s repeated proposals and experience they had, Storchevoy reminded.

“Russian organizations, specialists and experts on such investigations haven’t been involved in [MH17 crash] probe, despite repeated proposals from our [Russian] side to assist by providing competent experts as well as the necessary equipment for carrying out complicated tests.”

Russia’s Federal Air Transport Agency has claims over parts of MH17 crash report

Russian Federal Air Transport Agency has several claims over the report by Dutch investigators, Storchevoy said.

“I can give comments on the current investigation, on the final report only after this final report is officially published.”

He added that Russia’s Federal Air Transport Agency has “many things to say on this document and have some things to contradict to some of its points.”

“But currently I am bound by international norms and rules,” he said.

The Dutch Safety Board has released a preliminary report in September 2014 and is planning to release their full report on the tragedy in October 2015.

‘West is putting deliberate pressure on MH17 investigators’

Various comments and information leaks on the investigation of the MH17 tragedy before official release of Dutch experts report are merely a deliberate pressure on the international investigation commission, says Storchevoy.

“Without waiting for the results of official investigation, right after the catastrophe, journalists and western politicians started with lightning speed to release biased materials, based mostly on information from the social media, where the alleged causes of the accident, as well as the alleged culprits were named in no uncertain terms.”

This is not in line with the conventions of international civil aviation and should be viewed as “deliberate pressure on the investigative commission to get necessary conclusions,” he said.

Storchevoy used US ambassador to Russia John Tefft as an example, who said in an interview (http://www.mk.ru/politics/2015/07/08/posol-ssha-dzhon-tefft-to-chto-proiskhodit-na-ukraine-uzhasno.html) with Moskovsky Komsomolets newspaper that the US “just knows” who is behind the tragedy.

“It is hard to call this position [Tefft’s] constructive and worthy of a politician of such a high rank,” Storchevoy said.

The CNN has also aired a report on Wednesday which cited two anonymous US officials reportedly familiar with the Dutch report on the MH17 crash in Ukraine, as saying that the plane was downed by the eastern Ukrainian rebel forces.

However, the Dutch Safety Board spokesperson Sara Vernooij told RT the investigators “cannot confirm” this information.

Malaysia Airlines Flight MH17, from Amsterdam to Kuala-Lumpur, crashed in the Donetsk Region in eastern Ukraine on July 17, 2014, killing all 298 people on board. The Dutch Safety Board has been heading an international investigation into the cause of the crash, since a large number of passengers on the flight were from Holland while the plane itself flew out of Amsterdam.

Full article at RT (http://www.rt.com/news/310057-malaysian-flight-mh17-investigators/)

[Cidersomerset]

As with all these tragedies , ' false flags ' there are always innocent victims....


http://static.bbci.co.uk/frameworks/barlesque/2.83.10/orb/4/img/bbc-blocks-dark.png

MH17 anniversary: The bedroom frozen in time

6 hours ago

Friday marks the first anniversary of the crash of Malaysia Airlines
Flight MH17 in eastern Ukraine that killed all 298 people on board.

short vid about one victims mothers thoughts...http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-33549849

Silene and Rob Fredriksz's 23-year-old son Bryce and his girlfriend
Daisy Oehlers were going on a dream holiday to Bali aboard the aeroplane.

They were just two of the 193 Dutch nationals who died in the disaster.

Silene has left Bryce and Daisy's bedroom untouched since the day
the young couple dashed out of the house to catch the flight.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-33549849



====================================================

Ukraine Today says the Russians fabricated evidence and that they shot down the
plane . The propaganda war continues !!


MH17 Tragedy Anniversary: All evidence points to Russian involvement one year later

FFbeFOZm8S8

Published on 16 Jul 2015

https://yt3.ggpht.com/-H0GRZYKEZac/AAAAAAAAAAI/AAAAAAAAAAA/zoOOL-y4aFI/s88-c-k-no/photo.jpg

Igor Girkin, the former commander of Russian special forces in eastern Ukraine,
was on Wednesday formally accused of orchestrating the downing of Malaysia
Airlines flight MH17 on July 17 last year.


===================================================
===================================================

Who ? Will Sue Who ? in the International courts ? The interviewer was trying
to emphasis Russia , but Lawyer kept saying and Ukraine ...........


Remembering MH17: Aviation lawyer gives exclusive interview on flight MH17 tragedy

Z8x2WmpUg9Q

Published on 15 Jul 2015


Ukraine Today is joined by Andriy Guck, an aviation lawyer, to discuss the tragedy
of the Malaysia Airlines Flight MH17, which was shot down a year ago in east Ukraine.

[Matt P]

Yes, I know it's RT but it's an interesting article and there would certainly be no surprise if this is correct. Report due to be submitted in October. Hopefully the investigators don't have to get on a plane to deliver it.

Wish I could copy and paste the whole article, with photos included, but this won't let me. You'll have to go to the original to see photos with descriptions.

Matt

http://www.rt.com/news/310039-mh17-israeli-missile-version/

A report on Malaysian Airlines MH17 air disaster in Ukraine last year by a group of old-hand aviation security experts maintains that the Boeing might have been downed by an Israeli Python air-to-air missile.

The report was leaked via the private LiveJournal account of Albert Naryshkin (aka albert_lex) late on Tuesday and has already been widely discussed by social media communities in Russia.

The authors of the investigative report have calculated the possible detonation initiation point of the missile that hit the passenger aircraft and approximate number and weight of strike elements, which in turn designated the type and presumed manufacturer of the weapon.

Malaysian Airline Boeing 777-200 performing flight MH17 from Amsterdam to Kuala Lumpur on July 17, 2014, crashed on the territory of Ukraine near the village of Grabovo, killing all 283 passengers and 15 crewmembers aboard.

The aircraft disintegrated in the air and the debris of MH17 were scattered across an area of about 50 sq. km.

The external view of MH17 hull pieces indicates that “fragments of the pilots’ cockpit have suffered specific damages in the form of localized puncture holes and surface dents typical for hypervelocity impacts with compact and hard objects,” the report says, stressing that similar damage could be found on the inner side of the cockpit.

The report specifically points out that chips of the body coat around the holes in the fragment are typical of wave effects created by hypervelocity impacts.

Some damage, though larger and less clustered, could be found near the air-scoop of the left-wing engine of the aircraft.

The nature of the damage allows for the identification of the source as a high-explosive fragmentation warhead from a modern anti-aircraft weapon, claims the report.

Apart from the large puncture holes, the debris of the nose and the cockpit of the aircraft bear a large number of scattered micro-craters resulting from the impact of high-velocity dust and tiny debris, such as an unburnt blasting agent and elements of the ordnance that accompany a shock wave from a blast that occurred very close to the target. In the case of MH17, the pilots’ cockpit.

The report says that as a rule, the initial speed of the striking elements of modern anti-aircraft weapons vary between 1,500 and 2,500 meters per second.

Altogether, the experts considered photos of five fragments of the cockpit and left port of the flight MH17, on which they counted some 230 “battle-damage” holes and punctures.

All this considered, the experts claim that the exact zone of the blast impact could be established with a fair degree of accuracy.

The warhead of the missile exploded very close to the cockpit, to its left side at a distance of 0.8-1.6 meters from the cockpit windows, exactly opposite the sliding window of the aircraft commander.

The dimensions and character of the puncture holes left by the strike elements allegedly allow their size and form factor to be established, which in its turn makes it possible to identify the type of weapon used in a particular case.

The cross dimension of absolute majority, 86 percent, of the 186 hull holes studied by experts measure between 6 and 13mm, with explicit maximum of them having cross dimension of 8mm.

This fact brought the expert group to a conclusion about the size of the strike elements of the warhead. If the warhead had been armed with two types of strike elements, the majority of the holes would have been of two types, the reports notes.

The strike element has been established of being a rectangular block measured 8mm x 8mm x 6mm, with margin of error of 0.5 mm, a high probability it was made of steel and an estimated weight of 3 grams each. The total number of such elements should have varied between 2,000 and 4,000.

The bulk of the strike elements are estimated between 4.88 – 14.8 kilograms.

The report confutes the argument of Russia’s Almaz-Antey military concern that early claimed that “intricate shape” double-t steel fragments, similar to those used in warheads of surface-to-air Buk missile systems, have been extracted from the debris of MH17 flight.

However, the double-t strike elements of a Buk missile weigh 8.1 grams, more than twice as much as a single damage fragment among those that pierced MH17’s hull. Thus, according to the report, the hypothesis about a Buk missile system being involved in the crash is “most probably incorrect.”

With 95 percent probability, the group of experts estimates the weight of the missile’s warhead (explosives plus strike elements) that shot down MH17 of being between 10 and 40kg.

This led the experts to determine the exact type of the weapon used against Malaysian Airlines flight MH17.

The report says that that Soviet- and Russian-made surface-to-air missile systems use more powerful warheads than the established maximum 40kg, as is the case with MH17.

Moreover, Soviet- and Russian-made air-to-air missiles which have a similar 10-40kg warhead capability use other types of strike elements within one warhead - obviously not the case with MH17.

A whole range of existing foreign air-to-air missiles have corresponding warhead characteristics, yet lack of physical elements of the missile used against MH17 prevented experts from establishing the exact type of the weapon used.

Still, the circumstances and conditions of the assault allowed experts to make certain assumptions.

The missile that attacked MH17 had a passive radar homing head, which explains why the missile exploded so close to the cockpit. Under the radar-transparent nosecone of a Boeing 777-200 there is a surveillance radar station operable during the flight, so most likely the missile homed on to this radar as the target.

Apart from a radar homing head, the missile could also be equipped with an advanced, matrix type, imaging IR seeker, which enables the missile to determine the size and the type of the target and choose for attack its most vital element. For a huge Boeing aircraft, that’s the cockpit.

A simulation of the missile attack has proved that missiles with that type of guidance choose to attack a big passenger plane from the front hemisphere.

There are four air-to-air missiles that fit the description established by the experts, namely: French Magis-2, Israeli Shafrir, American AIM-9 and Israeli Python – all short-range.

The first three have been struck off the list for various reasons, including type of warhead or guidance system specifications. The Python deserved a closer look.

The Python is equipped with a matrix-imaging IR seeker. It enables a relatively moderate power warhead to effectively engage big aircrafts. The warhead is armed with a set of ready strike elements. Even more importantly, some open military sources suggest that in early 2000s a number of Sukhoi Su-25 assault fighter jets we refurbished to use fourth and fifth generation Python missiles, which look very similar to the Su-25’s standard air-to-air R-60 missile.

The unofficial report leaked in LiveJournal has become yet another one among many other unofficial versions presented over the year that has passed since the catastrophe occurred on July 17, 2014.

The Dutch Safety Board that has been heading an international investigation into the cause of the crash is due to release its official report in October.

[ponda]

What struck me as unusual was how immediately after the plane went down there were various claims from western politicians and talking heads that it was the Russians who were responsible and this was before any evidence had been evaluated.

[lucidity]

What struck me as unusual was how immediately after the plane went down there were various claims from western politicians and talking heads that it was the Russians who were responsible and this was before any evidence had been evaluated.

Yes.. you're right,... the media was blaming Russia even before the crash investigators
had finished investigating. And when the crash investigators had finished investigating,
_bizarrely_ they signed a non-disclosure agreement with the British and French.

As if to say "we're not going to tell the world what we found out".
That never normally happens. The whole point of a crash investigation team
is to find out what happened.

There was something very, very wrong about that whole scenario.

be happy :-)

lucidity

[Hervé]

Yes, I know it's RT but it's an interesting article and there would certainly be no surprise if this is correct....

Psssttt... see this post: Malaysian Plane MH17 shot down with over 295 on board. But by who? (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?73055-Malaysian-Plane-MH17-shot-down-with-over-295-on-board.-But-by-who&p=979019&viewfull=1#post979019)

... includes supporting pictures and graphs...

[WhiteLove]

I totally agree and it's totally relevant that it's not appropriate to make any comments whatsoever in media or elsewhere about the source of the missile before an official investigation has been carried out, standard procedure and several news magazines failed completely, very suspicious activity...

Since the media started reporting blames too early by US politicians etc. that is a big red flag and shows that someone had certain motives/interests for the investigation to lead in a certain direction.

I think that this deed was carried out by a US-Israel breakaway military elite, with ties to certain secret possibly neo nazi societies. Becuase the trace evidence leads in that direction.

It was a disgusting act of war...

[Cidersomerset]

Sometimes it worth highlighting a breakthrough or article from a larger
thread , I did it a few days ago with post from the Jimmy Saville one.
Herv'e presented a good article about this titles topic and we discussed
it briefly. But it is deep in the thread. If true it adds to the false flag theory,
they certainly had the motives , backing and hardware.....

=================================================


Good articles Herv'e......The Ukranian air force has the plane and the missile and
the motive to cause a 'false flag' to blame the rebels. Aim ? To ultimately blame
Russia, escalate the conflict to bring NATO ground troops and air offensives against
rebels and Russia if she reacted thus creating a conflict that could escalate into
war. Which the Neo - Cons in the US with Israeli support have been trying to do, if
you listen to rhetoric of many Republicans senators and others.

In this clip from 2010 the questioner hits some cords with Zionist puppet Sen Mc
Caine before being blown off and saved by another questioner. But NWO ,
Organised crime 'Banksters' all connected , Rothchilds also mentioned ? ...... Same
Old names behind the scenes..Many dots can be connected going back decades......


0LYhmc2VD-0
Uploaded on 17 Jul 2010
John McCain and Jeff Gates, townhall meeting, discussing organized crime, Tempe Arizona, July 2010
http://www.bollyn.com/the-zionist-criminal-network/#article_15156


http://www.davidicke.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/1280x720xget-attachment-354.jpg.pagespeed.ic._Le7pR7olv.jpg
http://www.prisonplanet.com/us-preparing-coup-to-prevent-greece-from-falling-under-russian-influence.html


========================================================
========================================================


http://i.imgur.com/T9Zv1qN.jpg?

http://airheadsfly.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/su25ukraine09_ukrainianairforce.jpg

http://airheadsfly.com/2014/03/01/overview-air-forces-ukraine/

http://www.bollyn.com/public/scorpion-2.jpg

http://www.bollyn.com/the-zionist-criminal-network/#article_15156


http://www.airwar.ru/image/idop/attack/su25km/su25km-2.jpg

http://gunm.ru/news/usovershenstvovannyj_shturmovik_su_25sm/2011-08-23-474



http://www.sott.net/image/s10/203796/full/MH_17_Russia.jpg



Very good video Herv'e............." Advanced debriefing capabilities " There
must be a mission tape somewhere ? Or as in all the best ' false flags ' The
cameras were not working ...LOL

ZAszf4XPTFo

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/editpost.php?p=979065&do=editpostSometimes

[chancy]

Hello Everyone:

We have to remember that there is a war going on and propoganda gets the people to agree to many things that would normally be completely wrong! There was no reason for Russia to down this aircraft BUT there was a long list of reasons for other countries to down it. Politics has been in the way of finding out the truth from the beginning of this crash.
I hope that truth and justice will find the perpetrators and prosecute them to the fullest degree of the law.
chancy

[lucidity]

Hello Siblings,

I wonder how the Dutch are responding to the murder of a plane load of their citizens.

I remember it was the Scandinavians who were the first to be publically critical of the blood bath
against the Palestinians in Gaza last year. And it was principally the Germans and
French who steadfastly refused to cooperate in a war against Russia last year... suggesting
instead that NATO be redesigned with Russia as key contributor to NATO forces.

And I notice that Obama has refused to back down to Israeli pressure
to start a war on Iran... and to disable her Nuclear capabilities forever.

Perhaps tables are quietly turning against the Israelis.

be happy

lucidity :-)

[Selkie]

...Perhaps tables are quietly turning against the Israelis...

I certainly hope so.

[Cidersomerset]

Article from today headline page, its an update of an earlier 21 century article .
Its a long article focusing on the Buk system and other political agendas.

Not much mentioned that I could see about air to air missile attack for SU - 25,
other than the official Russian air ministry vid and brief paragraph, but maybe
article was released before the Israeli made missile allegations......

from article.....


Most importantly however, Moscow radar picked up a Ukrainian Air Force fighter jet.
At 17:20 Moscow Time, MH17 began to abruptly lose speed, eventually slowing to 124mph
(200kmph). At that moment, what appears to be an SU-25 Ukrainian fighter jet appears on
ATC radar, climbing in the direction of MH17 before trailing MH17 on the same flight path
approximately 3-5km behind the passenger airliner, as it began rapidly approaching the same
flight level. This happened just minutes before MH17 disappeared on radar. Note here that a
Ukrainian fighter would not have been visible on ATC radar before it broke the ATC long-range
standby radar tracking ceiling of 5km in altitude. Civilian ATC radar would not be able to identify
this Su-25 as military because no secondary detection system is mounted – typical for military
aircraft. Over the next four minutes, the Ukrainian fighter remained in the area. Note also that
the Su-25 can be armed with air-to-air R-60 missiles with a range of up to 5km-12km.


http://i0.wp.com/21stcenturywire.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/Marie-Harf-Twitter-Ukraine.jpg
Marie-Harf-Twitter-Ukraine
Then assistant spokesperson for the US State Dept. Marie Harf had already declared her support
for the western-backed coup in Kiev (Image: Twitter)

Washington’s Revised Conspiracy Theory

In a damage control exercise, US State Department spokesperson Marie Harf, called an ‘urgent’
press conference. The plan was to try and rescue the narrative. The Los Angeles Times reported:

“U.S. intelligence agencies have so far been unable to determine the nationalities or identities of
the crew that launched the missile. U.S. officials said it was possible the SA-11 [anti-aircraft missile]
was launched by a defector from the Ukrainian military who was trained to use similar missile systems.” ⁷

The quiet U-turn by Washington signaled that its previous case blaming the rebels has been destroyed,
and rather than concede that the Ukrainian Army has actually shot down MH17, they instead tried to
concoct a revision about an unlikely Bond-like “rogue defector” villain and his “rogue team” – who all
just happened to be wearing Ukrainian Army uniforms.

Even Hollywood’s best script writers could not rescue Washington’s terminally over-worked MH17 narrative.


http://21stcenturywire.com/2015/07/17/mh17-one-year-on-what-really-happened-and-why/


=============================================================

MH17 One Year On: What Really Happened and Why

By ickonic on 18th July 2015 Political Manipulation, Problem-Reaction-Solution, War and Terror

http://www.davidicke.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/Untitled-410.jpg
=============================================================

http://21stcenturywire.com/wp-content/themes/magazine/images/21-LOGO-230x115.png

MH17 One Year On: What Really Happened and Why

July 17, 2015 By 21wire

PHPatrick Henningsen
21st Century Wire

‘This month marks the one year anniversary of the downing of Malaysian Airlines flight MH17 – an
incident that took place against a backdrop of a brutal proxy war – pitting Kiev and its supporters
in Washington DC, the EU and NATO – against rebel forces in eastern Ukraine and Russia. As with
most 21st century conflicts, truth has been the first casualty of war here.

Last July, 21WIRE released its own preliminary investigation into the disaster. That post still remains
one of the most successful articles in the site’s history. One year on, we’ll revisit and review many of
those key points and attempt many of the reamining unanswered questions…’

Read more: MH17 One Year On: What Really Happened and Why

http://21stcenturywire.com/2015/07/17/mh17-one-year-on-what-really-happened-and-why/

[Cidersomerset]

Article from today headline page, its an update of an earlier 21 century article .
Its a long article focusing on the Buk system and other political agendas.

Not much mentioned that I could see about air to air missile attack for SU - 25,
other than the official Russian air ministry vid and brief paragraph, but maybe
article was released before the Israeli made missile allegations......

from article.....


Most importantly however, Moscow radar picked up a Ukrainian Air Force fighter jet.
At 17:20 Moscow Time, MH17 began to abruptly lose speed, eventually slowing to 124mph
(200kmph). At that moment, what appears to be an SU-25 Ukrainian fighter jet appears on
ATC radar, climbing in the direction of MH17 before trailing MH17 on the same flight path
approximately 3-5km behind the passenger airliner, as it began rapidly approaching the same
flight level. This happened just minutes before MH17 disappeared on radar. Note here that a
Ukrainian fighter would not have been visible on ATC radar before it broke the ATC long-range
standby radar tracking ceiling of 5km in altitude. Civilian ATC radar would not be able to identify
this Su-25 as military because no secondary detection system is mounted – typical for military
aircraft. Over the next four minutes, the Ukrainian fighter remained in the area. Note also that
the Su-25 can be armed with air-to-air R-60 missiles with a range of up to 5km-12km.


http://i0.wp.com/21stcenturywire.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/Marie-Harf-Twitter-Ukraine.jpg
Marie-Harf-Twitter-Ukraine
Then assistant spokesperson for the US State Dept. Marie Harf had already declared her support
for the western-backed coup in Kiev (Image: Twitter)

Washington’s Revised Conspiracy Theory

In a damage control exercise, US State Department spokesperson Marie Harf, called an ‘urgent’
press conference. The plan was to try and rescue the narrative. The Los Angeles Times reported:

“U.S. intelligence agencies have so far been unable to determine the nationalities or identities of
the crew that launched the missile. U.S. officials said it was possible the SA-11 [anti-aircraft missile]
was launched by a defector from the Ukrainian military who was trained to use similar missile systems.” ⁷

The quiet U-turn by Washington signaled that its previous case blaming the rebels has been destroyed,
and rather than concede that the Ukrainian Army has actually shot down MH17, they instead tried to
concoct a revision about an unlikely Bond-like “rogue defector” villain and his “rogue team” – who all
just happened to be wearing Ukrainian Army uniforms.

Even Hollywood’s best script writers could not rescue Washington’s terminally over-worked MH17 narrative.


http://21stcenturywire.com/2015/07/17/mh17-one-year-on-what-really-happened-and-why/


=============================================================

MH17 One Year On: What Really Happened and Why

By ickonic on 18th July 2015 Political Manipulation, Problem-Reaction-Solution, War and Terror

http://www.davidicke.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/Untitled-410.jpg
=============================================================

http://21stcenturywire.com/wp-content/themes/magazine/images/21-LOGO-230x115.png

MH17 One Year On: What Really Happened and Why

July 17, 2015 By 21wire

PHPatrick Henningsen
21st Century Wire

‘This month marks the one year anniversary of the downing of Malaysian Airlines flight MH17 – an
incident that took place against a backdrop of a brutal proxy war – pitting Kiev and its supporters
in Washington DC, the EU and NATO – against rebel forces in eastern Ukraine and Russia. As with
most 21st century conflicts, truth has been the first casualty of war here.

Last July, 21WIRE released its own preliminary investigation into the disaster. That post still remains
one of the most successful articles in the site’s history. One year on, we’ll revisit and review many of
those key points and attempt many of the reamining unanswered questions…’

Read more: MH17 One Year On: What Really Happened and Why

http://21stcenturywire.com/2015/07/17/mh17-one-year-on-what-really-happened-and-why/

[Cidersomerset]

Former CIA Analyst Ray McGovern on Who Shot Down Flight MH17 And Iran Nuclear Deal.

dAAQ1cDav3w

Published on 17 Jul 2015


Please Support The Show – http://richieallenshow.com/donate/

[Cidersomerset]

CrossTalk: Remembering MH17

eVqj3adOIwg

Published on 17 Jul 2015


Investigations into the downing of flight MH17 in eastern Ukraine are still inconclusive
or incomplete a year on from the tragedy. However, this has not stopped the West and
their media from apportioning blames, without facts and figures to back up their claims.
The search for justice for the families of those killed on MH17 continues.

CrossTalking with Ray McGovern, Alexander Mercouris, and Patrick Henningsen.

[Cidersomerset]

NATO’s Australian Ballistics ‘Expert’ Dr Stephan Fruehling Challenged Over MH17 Claims

By ickonic on 22nd July 2015 Political Manipulation, Problem-Reaction-Solution, War and Terror

http://www.davidicke.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/get-attachment-2821.jpg


‘Dr’ Fruehling was reported as an ‘Ballistics specialist’ in the Sydney Morning Herald as
providing proof of “Russian Separatists” shooting down of MH17′

Read more: NATO’s Australian Ballistics ‘Expert’ Dr Stephan Fruehling Challenged Over MH17 Claims

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=ef9_1437464684

[Sophocles]

The UN's MH17 tribunal is a desperate attempt to cover tracks - Dutch journalist (http://www.sott.net/article/299438-The-UNs-MH17-tribunal-is-a-desperate-attempt-to-cover-tracks-Dutch-journalist)


Daniele Pozzati
Russian Insider (http://russia-insider.com/en/dutch-mh17-tribunal/ri8966)
Sun, 26 Jul 2015 15:04 UTC

The proposed UN-backed MH17 tribunal is a "desperate attempt to hide Kiev's responsibility", Dutch journalist and blogger Joost Niemoller argues in his post "How Chess Player Putin Wins the MH17 Game" (http://joostniemoller.nl/2015/07/hoe-schaakspeler-poetin-het-mh17-spel-wint/).

Niemoller is no layman. In October 2014 he published a book on the MH17 disaster whose title De Doofpotdeal ("The Cover Up Deal") summarizes its key argument. The inside flap explains what the author means:


"The Netherlands took charge of the investigation into the cause of the disaster, but agreed to grant a covert deal to Kiev.

It thus became a pawn in an international political chess game. Unvarnished Cold War rhetoric is making a comeback.

Putin here is the ultimate bad guy. What he says is labeled as poisonous propaganda in the West. Meanwhile, it seems, all those concerned suffer from tunnel vision.

Can we still be assured that the investigators do their work independently and objectively?"

In his piece, Niemoller laments the shortcomings of the Dutch Safety Board, the body charged with conducting the investigations on the MH17 disaster. The ever-postponed deadline - the final report might be released at the end of the year, hence one and a half year after the crash, but that too is still uncertain - he finds perplexing:


"When the co-operating countries, the JIT (Joint Investigation Team), intend to complete their probe, is not known. Then, something gets leaked to the press: 'At the end of this year'. With which legal framework? It is not yet known. Under which conditions? No idea. How will the co-operation between the Ukrainian, the JIT and Dutch Safety Board unfold?"

"Everything is vague and secret. That is not the way it should be for such an important study."

Niemoller contrasts this with the approach taken by Moscow:


"Russia proposed last year to conduct an international study based on research carried out by the UN - and not by means of a secret deal of countries, where one of the possible culprits, namely Ukraine, has veto power."

Niemoller, a Dutchman, laments the dubious role of his country, especially when considering that it was the one affected most by the MH17 tragedy: 193 of the 298 victims were Dutch. And yet, Niemoller says:


"What we know for sure is that the Netherlands from day zero intensely cooperates with Kiev. What we know is that the Russians are kept out and that there is a blame game played against Putin."

Now Niemoller focuses his attention on the role Russia is about to play. He argues that Moscow holds all the cards, and that Kiev & co apparently hold none:


"When the Russians said that if a BUK had been fired by the separatists, they would have certainly seen it on their radar, the Russians indicated that they know much more".

"After a year, there is still no evidence of that alleged separatist Buk on the table. Kindergarten-level work from Bellingcat has been dismissed. And there was no 'Buk-track' through the Donbas region."

Niemoller points out that Russia is not going to passively accept any result the Dutch Safety Board comes up with, especially if not backed with evidence. He reminds that Russia has set up its own body, ready to refute any unfounded allegations against the separatists militias the JIT might bring forward:


"The investigation Russia's own Research Council is conducting will be a catastrophe for the Ukrainian and Dutch Safety Board"

Nor is Washington in a less awkward position:


"The Americans are silent about possible Russian involvement. Even US hawk Victoria Nuland used very cautious language about MH17 during a recent press conference in Kiev. She showed she really has nothing more to say about it."

But it might get even more embarrassing for the US and its closest ally:


"Meanwhile, an anonymous Russian report has appeared, suggesting that the Boeing flight MH17 might have been shot with super modern Israeli missiles. There is confirmation coming from an ex-CIA agent to a Ukrainian/Israeli oligarch on the availability to Ukraine of modern Israeli weaponry".

"The same ex-CIA agent added that the US policy, which is to blame for bringing down MH17, wants to push it away from the US, and will focus on local causes."

According to Niemoller, "This is a very sophisticated game, but Russia can wait".

What this proposed, UN-backed MH17 tribunal boils down to is thus quite prosaic.


"Faces should be saved. American faces especially. The Americans lost any initiative in diplomatic relations. It is the Russians who repeatedly state that they have an information advantage."

The UN Security Council voting session on proposed tribunal to investigate last year's Malaysia Airlines MH17 passenger plane crash in Ukraine is expected to be held next Wednesday. Russia, which has veto power, is expected to reject the initiative.

Link -Sott (http://www.sott.net/article/299438-The-UNs-MH17-tribunal-is-a-desperate-attempt-to-cover-tracks-Dutch-journalist)

[Cidersomerset]

Russia to veto UN tribunal on MH17 crash: ‘This will be a propaganda circus’ – analyst

By ickonic on 28th July 2015

T87b9tpe_FA

Published on 27 Jul 2015


Russia will veto establishing a UN tribunal on the downing of flight MH17 last
year in Eastern Ukraine. The vote is due to take place on Wednesday. Here's
how Russia's envoy to the UN explained the move.

[Cidersomerset]

Russia vetoes MH17 tribunal draft at UN Security Council

s5KZ7-kuDSM

Published on 29 Jul 2015


Russia has vetoed a draft of a UN Security Council resolution calling
for an international tribunal on the crash of the Malaysian Airlines
MH17 flight over eastern Ukraine last July and classifying the plane’s
downing as a threat to peace and security. RT's Maria Portnaya has
more. Read More: http://on.rt.com/6o1x

[Cidersomerset]

‘Pure Propaganda Ploy’: Ron Paul executive director on Malaysian Airlines MH17 & tribunal

iZKsFwbrTYE

Published on 29 Jul 2015
Russia has vetoed a draft of a UN Security Council resolution calling for an international
tribunal on the crash of the Malaysian Airlines MH17 flight over eastern Ukraine last July
and classifying the plane’s downing as a threat to peace and security.
READ MORE http://on.rt.com/6o1x

=========================================================
=========================================================
=========================================================

The western media are still highlight the BUK missile theory.....


http://static.bbci.co.uk/frameworks/barlesque/2.83.10/orb/4/img/bbc-blocks-dark.png

MH17 crash: Russia vetoes UN resolution for international tribunal

7 hours ago

From the section Europe


http://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/660/cpsprodpb/13B9B/production/_84559708_mh17crashgetty.jpg
Vladimir Putin said a tribunal would be "counter productive"

Russia has used its veto at the UN to block a draft resolution to set up an international
tribunal into the MH17 air disaster in July 2014.


Read more...
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-33710088


http://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/624/media/images/77470000/jpg/_77470832_97ee9a9d-de2d-48ec-b15a-1346fad4b0fe.jpg


Read more....

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-33710088

[Hervé]

Never heard of this one before (although strongly suspected by many on this thread), but plane parts falling back of break up point is quite damning:

Sott Exclusive: Voice recording suggests MH17 brought down by bomb on board (http://lifenews.ru/news/158220)

Translated by Sott.net (http://www.sott.net/article/299625-Sott-Exclusive-Voice-recording-suggests-MH17-brought-down-by-bomb-on-board)
Lifenews.ru (http://lifenews.ru/news/1582201)
Fri, 31 Jul 2015 20:20 UTC



Russian experts claim to possess cockpit voice recordings between a pilot of an SU-27 and a military flight control officer, who witnessed the accident in the sky over Eastern Ukraine. The evidence strongly suggests that a bomb exploded on board MH17.


http://www.sott.net/image/s12/259269/large/77b327c175af0437789b8a7c415937.jpg (http://www.sott.net/image/s12/259269/full/77b327c175af0437789b8a7c415937.jpg)
© RIA/А. Кudenko


Today the UN Security Council will discuss the creation of an international tribunal on the crash of MH17 near Donetsk in July 2014. Western politicians plan to form a judicial committee without waiting for the official results of the investigation which, after a year, has yet to provide answers to the most important questions of how, and by whom, the airliner was destroyed.

However, a version of the story told to LifeNews by Sergey Sokolov, an aviation expert with the Russian federal information center, Analytics and Security, offers a shocking account of the last moments of MH17.

"I am pretty sure that the airliner was destroyed from within and that it was a special operation". In the interview, Sokolov details what he says are the cock pit voice recordings between the pilot of an Su-27 combat aircraft and a flight control officer.
Transcript fragment:
Officer: 730, can you see the target?

Pilot: Yes, I can see it, leftwards to traverse, at higher altitude.

Pilot: Big one, right?

Officer: Yeah!

Pilot: 730! Didn't get it, repeat!

Officer: Right, the target is big.
Ivan Ivanov helped us understand the particularities of communication of military pilots. Ivanov has flown hundreds of combat and training flights.

"When an interceptor is directed to a target by military flight control, you often hear "target". But in some cases, e.g. if the target is not military or not specific, such words as "big" are used as well", he explains.

According to the recording handed over to our editors office, the pilot was receiving the coordinates of the other aircraft from ground control. A couple of minutes later, he reports visual contact with a passenger aircraft and then received his instructions.
Transcript fragment:
Flight control officer: 730, don't approach it too close!

Pilot: Got it, flying off. 730! Continue following it...

Flight control officer: 730, got it, wait for further instructions.

(2 minutes later pilot established himself the communication, he is very agitated. - Editorial comment)

Pilot: There is a flash on the "big"! 730, I see a flash!

Flight control officer: 730, I didn't get it, repeat.

Pilot: There is a flash on the "big"... explosion!

Flight control officer: A missile?

Pilot: No, I didn't see any other element. Probably explosion on board.

Flight control officer: 730, explosion on board? From the ground? Confirm!

Pilot: No, I didn't see any [missile] hit. It exploded by itself!
Sergey Sokolov came into possession of this sensational voice recording (in digital form) as early as last year, but it was impossible to publish it back then.


http://www.sott.net/image/s12/259274/large/9f4819e277e56d54f2fb4dfe0a70dd.jpg (http://www.sott.net/image/s12/259274/full/9f4819e277e56d54f2fb4dfe0a70dd.jpg)
© RIA/S. Averin


"We understood that if we would have anything to do with a Hague or international investigation, we would need a first-hand source, hence we bought this original voice recording from SBU officers", said Sokolov.

The information center paid $250,000 for this voice recording, says Sergey Sokolov; they decided to pay such a large amount of money only after they were completely sure of the credibility of the source and authenticity of the recording.

The voice recording has undergone thorough checks - experts couldn't find any edits or added sounds. Military pilots analyzed the particularities of the communication, the expressions used and the execution time of the received orders.

Independent technical expert Jurij Antipov also agrees with the theory that the Malaysian Boeing was destroyed by an explosion from within. Immediately after the tragedy, he criticized the theories that suggested that the airliner was brought down by a missile or by a military aircraft. After the data from the black boxes was published, he became even more convinced of the bomb narrative.

"There was a full reset of all on board instruments at the same time, says the expert." It turns out that communication between the black boxes and all on board instruments and sensors was lost instantaneously, as if somebody had simultaneously cut all the wires. As previous incidents [of a missile shoot down of an airliner] show, when a missile or shell hits an aircraft, self-recording devices continue to record the conversations of pilots, flight/speed and other parameters of the aircraft for the next couple of seconds or even minutes. All the wires in black boxes are backed up in three different ways, and it is therefore almost impossible to damage them instantaneously, let alone by a fragmentation projectile. Even more significant for Jurij Antipov however, is the location of the airliner wreckage.

"We can see on the wreckage disperation map that, from the point at which the airplane was still intact in the air, part of the wreckage landed to the left of that location and, more importantly, also behind that location", he explains.


http://www.sott.net/image/s12/259275/large/c67e99259960f59758514afefd28e7.jpg (http://www.sott.net/image/s12/259275/full/c67e99259960f59758514afefd28e7.jpg)
© RIA/S. Averin


The airplane was moving at approximately 900 kmh. According to the laws of physics, all the wreckage should have hit the ground of forwards of the last known location. But that didn't happen.

"No external explosion can cause wreckage to be dispersed backwards from the last known location", says Antonov.

These facts, however, have been ignored by investigators. Dutch experts made a number of first-rate blunders during their investigation. A large amount of wreckage still remains at the crash site and nobody seems interested in recovering it.

"International norms for dealing with air crash investigations requires investigators to conduct tests for explosive materials in order to determine whether or not a bomb was involved. In the case of MH17, this appears to be the only test that was not performed", Antonov said.

While everybody was speculating what kind of weapon was used to shoot at the Boeing's cock pit, Jurij Antipov carefully investigated the airline's fuselage. According to him, photographs show quite clearly the signature of a bomb having exploded within.

"Evidence for an internal explosion include cabin window shades pushed outwards, suggesting that there was a short-period of overpressure in the passenger cabin itself which forced the shades outwards," explained Antonov.

Now that the investigation has more or less been completed, Sokolov is ready to provide all the collected data and evidence to an international group of investigators. However, for the time being, European officials and experts seem more interested in the creation of UN tribunal than in correcting their own mistakes.

[Cidersomerset]

Well this is convenient ,with MH370 under control lets tie up MH17 !!!

More suspicious Dutch broadcaster RTL announced this back in March , smells dodgy.
=====================================================

http://static.bbci.co.uk/frameworks/barlesque/2.84.11/orb/4/img/bbc-blocks-dark.png

MH17: 'Russian missile system fragments' at crash site


2 minutes ago

From the section Europe

http://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/660/media/images/80201000/png/_80201000_breaking_image_large-3.png
Breaking News image
Fragments of a suspected Russian missile system have been
found at the site of the flight MH17 crash in east Ukraine,
Dutch investigators say.

They say the parts, possibly from a Buk surface-to-air system,
are "of particular interest" and could help determine who was
involved in the crash.

But they say they have not proved a "causal connection" between
the parts and the crash. MH17 crashed in an area held by pro-Russian
rebels in July 2014, killing all on board.

Read More...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-33865420

===================================================
===================================================


New Missile fragment 'found at MH17 crash site'

lj4F4pPAJPs

Published on 20 Mar 2015


Dutch broadcaster RTL says it has new evidence that the Malaysia Airlines plane
shot down over Ukraine last July was hit by a surface-to-air missile.Forensic
analysis of a metal fragment found at the crash site of flight MH17 by a journalist
indicated it was from the warhead of a Russian-made Buk.

[Cidersomerset]

Well that was a quick update Uhm !! This is to get the 'psyop'
media mind control going again after Russia used its veto
in the UN last week. They have had more than ample
time to find evidence or plant material blaming the seperatists,
so this will linger on , with the rhetoric stepping up I expect.

==========================================

http://static.bbci.co.uk/frameworks/barlesque/2.84.11/orb/4/img/bbc-blocks-dark.png

MH17: Ukraine crash site 'yields Russian missile parts'


Less than a minute ago

From the section Europe

http://ichef-1.bbci.co.uk/news/660/cpsprodpb/9C2D/production/_84818993_84818990.jpg
Pro-Russian rebel stands with debris from MH17 - July 2014 picture

Fragments of a suspected Russian missile system have been found
at the Flight MH17 crash site in eastern Ukraine, investigators say.

The joint team in the Netherlands says the parts, possibly from a
Buk surface-to-air system, are "of particular interest" and could
help determine who was involved in the crash.

But they say they have not proved a "causal connection" between
the parts and the crash. MH17 crashed in an area held by pro-Russian
rebels in July 2014, killing all 298 people on board.

Ukraine and many Western countries have accused pro-Russian rebels
of shooting down the plane, saying they could have used a Buk
missile system supplied by Russia.

Russia and the rebels deny any responsibility and say the Ukrainian
military is to blame.The joint investigation team comprises representatives
of the Netherlands, Ukraine, Malaysia, Australia, the UK, US and Russia.

They are meeting in The Hague to discuss a draft report on the causes of
the crash, the final version of which is expected to be published in October

Read More...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-33865420

[Operator]

Voila, I said this from day one ... investigation should have started on Schiphol ... period !


Never heard of this one before (although strongly suspected by many on this thread), but plane parts falling back of break up point is quite damning:

Sott Exclusive: Voice recording suggests MH17 brought down by bomb on board (http://lifenews.ru/news/158220)

Translated by Sott.net (http://www.sott.net/article/299625-Sott-Exclusive-Voice-recording-suggests-MH17-brought-down-by-bomb-on-board)
Lifenews.ru (http://lifenews.ru/news/1582201)
Fri, 31 Jul 2015 20:20 UTC



Russian experts claim to possess cockpit voice recordings between a pilot of an SU-27 and a military flight control officer, who witnessed the accident in the sky over Eastern Ukraine. The evidence strongly suggests that a bomb exploded on board MH17.


http://www.sott.net/image/s12/259269/large/77b327c175af0437789b8a7c415937.jpg (http://www.sott.net/image/s12/259269/full/77b327c175af0437789b8a7c415937.jpg)
© RIA/А. Кudenko


Today the UN Security Council will discuss the creation of an international tribunal on the crash of MH17 near Donetsk in July 2014. Western politicians plan to form a judicial committee without waiting for the official results of the investigation which, after a year, has yet to provide answers to the most important questions of how, and by whom, the airliner was destroyed.

However, a version of the story told to LifeNews by Sergey Sokolov, an aviation expert with the Russian federal information center, Analytics and Security, offers a shocking account of the last moments of MH17.

"I am pretty sure that the airliner was destroyed from within and that it was a special operation". In the interview, Sokolov details what he says are the cock pit voice recordings between the pilot of an Su-27 combat aircraft and a flight control officer.
Transcript fragment:
Officer: 730, can you see the target?

Pilot: Yes, I can see it, leftwards to traverse, at higher altitude.

Pilot: Big one, right?

Officer: Yeah!

Pilot: 730! Didn't get it, repeat!

Officer: Right, the target is big.
Ivan Ivanov helped us understand the particularities of communication of military pilots. Ivanov has flown hundreds of combat and training flights.

"When an interceptor is directed to a target by military flight control, you often hear "target". But in some cases, e.g. if the target is not military or not specific, such words as "big" are used as well", he explains.

According to the recording handed over to our editors office, the pilot was receiving the coordinates of the other aircraft from ground control. A couple of minutes later, he reports visual contact with a passenger aircraft and then received his instructions.
Transcript fragment:
Flight control officer: 730, don't approach it too close!

Pilot: Got it, flying off. 730! Continue following it...

Flight control officer: 730, got it, wait for further instructions.

(2 minutes later pilot established himself the communication, he is very agitated. - Editorial comment)

Pilot: There is a flash on the "big"! 730, I see a flash!

Flight control officer: 730, I didn't get it, repeat.

Pilot: There is a flash on the "big"... explosion!

Flight control officer: A missile?

Pilot: No, I didn't see any other element. Probably explosion on board.

Flight control officer: 730, explosion on board? From the ground? Confirm!

Pilot: No, I didn't see any [missile] hit. It exploded by itself!
Sergey Sokolov came into possession of this sensational voice recording (in digital form) as early as last year, but it was impossible to publish it back then.


http://www.sott.net/image/s12/259274/large/9f4819e277e56d54f2fb4dfe0a70dd.jpg (http://www.sott.net/image/s12/259274/full/9f4819e277e56d54f2fb4dfe0a70dd.jpg)
© RIA/S. Averin


"We understood that if we would have anything to do with a Hague or international investigation, we would need a first-hand source, hence we bought this original voice recording from SBU officers", said Sokolov.

The information center paid $250,000 for this voice recording, says Sergey Sokolov; they decided to pay such a large amount of money only after they were completely sure of the credibility of the source and authenticity of the recording.

The voice recording has undergone thorough checks - experts couldn't find any edits or added sounds. Military pilots analyzed the particularities of the communication, the expressions used and the execution time of the received orders.

Independent technical expert Jurij Antipov also agrees with the theory that the Malaysian Boeing was destroyed by an explosion from within. Immediately after the tragedy, he criticized the theories that suggested that the airliner was brought down by a missile or by a military aircraft. After the data from the black boxes was published, he became even more convinced of the bomb narrative.

"There was a full reset of all on board instruments at the same time, says the expert." It turns out that communication between the black boxes and all on board instruments and sensors was lost instantaneously, as if somebody had simultaneously cut all the wires. As previous incidents [of a missile shoot down of an airliner] show, when a missile or shell hits an aircraft, self-recording devices continue to record the conversations of pilots, flight/speed and other parameters of the aircraft for the next couple of seconds or even minutes. All the wires in black boxes are backed up in three different ways, and it is therefore almost impossible to damage them instantaneously, let alone by a fragmentation projectile. Even more significant for Jurij Antipov however, is the location of the airliner wreckage.

"We can see on the wreckage disperation map that, from the point at which the airplane was still intact in the air, part of the wreckage landed to the left of that location and, more importantly, also behind that location", he explains.


http://www.sott.net/image/s12/259275/large/c67e99259960f59758514afefd28e7.jpg (http://www.sott.net/image/s12/259275/full/c67e99259960f59758514afefd28e7.jpg)
© RIA/S. Averin


The airplane was moving at approximately 900 kmh. According to the laws of physics, all the wreckage should have hit the ground of forwards of the last known location. But that didn't happen.

"No external explosion can cause wreckage to be dispersed backwards from the last known location", says Antonov.

These facts, however, have been ignored by investigators. Dutch experts made a number of first-rate blunders during their investigation. A large amount of wreckage still remains at the crash site and nobody seems interested in recovering it.

"International norms for dealing with air crash investigations requires investigators to conduct tests for explosive materials in order to determine whether or not a bomb was involved. In the case of MH17, this appears to be the only test that was not performed", Antonov said.

While everybody was speculating what kind of weapon was used to shoot at the Boeing's cock pit, Jurij Antipov carefully investigated the airline's fuselage. According to him, photographs show quite clearly the signature of a bomb having exploded within.

"Evidence for an internal explosion include cabin window shades pushed outwards, suggesting that there was a short-period of overpressure in the passenger cabin itself which forced the shades outwards," explained Antonov.

Now that the investigation has more or less been completed, Sokolov is ready to provide all the collected data and evidence to an international group of investigators. However, for the time being, European officials and experts seem more interested in the creation of UN tribunal than in correcting their own mistakes.

[Cidersomerset]

Dutch government refuses to unseal MH17 documents

By David Icke on 14th August 2015 Coverups, Problem-Reaction-Solution


http://www.davidicke.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/08/get-attachment-282.jpg

‘The Dutch government has refused to unseal documents regarding last
year’s MH17 airliner crash in Ukraine, Dutch broadcaster RTL said on
Wednesday evening.The broadcaster earlier filed an appeal to Dutch
Justice Minister Ard van der Steur, asking him to disclose as much
information as possible because of the massive impact the crash
had on Dutch society.

In his response, Van der Steur acknowledged that the disaster did
Indeed have a big impact on people’s lives, but that secrecy was
more important, according to RTL.’

Read more: Dutch government refuses to unseal MH17 documents

http://tass.ru/en/world/814116

[Cidersomerset]

West Fabricates Hype Over MH17 Crash to Suppress Truth – German Media

By David Icke on 17th August 2015 Coverups, War and Terror

http://www.davidicke.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/08/get-attachment-269.jpg


‘Instead of collecting the information that may help in the
search for answers in the crash of the Malaysian airliner MH17, Western media
hypes up and massively publishes low-quality information that contains references
blaming Russia, writes German media outlet Propagandaschau.

The absence of convincing evidence suggests an attempt to conceal the facts,
Propagandaschau reports.Soon after the crash of the MH17 flight, Western media
began their “propaganda battle” in which Donbass militia forces and Russia were
accused of the tragedy. There was so much hype created but the facts are still so
scarce that it is impossible to get rid of the impression that there is a deliberate
plot to try and hide something, the German outlet noted.’

Read more: West Fabricates Hype Over MH17 Crash to Suppress Truth – German Media

http://sputniknews.com/europe/20150816/1025813294.html

[Cidersomerset]

Western MH17 Narrative: 0% Intelligence, 100% Perception Management

By David Icke on 21st August 2015 Problem-Reaction-Solution, War and Terror

http://www.davidicke.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/08/putinBjuly14-489858.jpg


====================================================
====================================================

RUSSIA INSIDER....


Western MH17 Narrative: 0% Intelligence, 100% Perception Management

In the 21st century the US may be incapable of winning wars or even pursuing its
own national interest but the media manipulation around the shoot-down of MH17
proves it is reaching new heights (or depths) in the art of perception management



Ray McGovern is a retired CIA analyst of 27 years. He served as chief of the Soviet
Foreign Policy Branch, and prepared and personally conducted early morning
briefings of the President’s Daily Brief


‘During a recent interview, I was asked to express my conclusions about the July
17, 2014 shoot-down of Malaysia Airlines Flight 17 over Ukraine, prompting me to
take another hard look at Official Washington’s dubious claims – pointing the finger
of blame at eastern Ukrainian rebels and Moscow – based on shaky evidence
regarding who was responsible for this terrible tragedy.

Unlike serious professional investigative reporters, intelligence analysts often are required
by policymakers to reach rapid judgments without the twin luxuries of enough time and
conclusive evidence. Having spent almost 30 years in the business of intelligence analysis,
I have faced that uncomfortable challenge more times than I wish to remember.

So, I know what it feels like to confront issues of considerable consequence like the
shoot-down of MH-17 and the killing of 298 passengers and crew amid intense pressure
to choreograph the judgments to the propagandistic music favored by senior officials who
want the U.S. “enemy” – in this case, nuclear-armed Russia and its Western-demonized
President Vladimir Putin – to somehow be responsible. In such situations, the easiest and
safest (career-wise) move is to twirl your analysis to the preferred tune or at least sit this jig out.’

Read more: Western MH17 Narrative: 0% Intelligence, 100% Perception Management

http://russia-insider.com/en/propaganda-intelligence-and-mh-17/ri9256

[Cidersomerset]

Why MH17 Was Most Likely Shot Down by a Ukrainian Su-25 Jet

By David Icke on 26th August 2015 Coverups, Problem-Reaction-Solution, War and Terror
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

RUSSIAN INSIDER............


Why MH17 Was Most Likely Shot Down by a Ukrainian Su-25 Jet


If the rebels had shot it down this would have been easy for US, which monitors the
war zone, to prove

•The Saker explains how a Ukrainian Su-25 plane could have easily shot down the
civilian airliner, as he believes is the most likely explanation


http://russia-insider.com/sites/insider/files/styles/s400/public/su-25ub-ucrania-60-nuevo-camo-1.jpg?
The Su-25 ground attack plane

‘Over a year has passed since Malaysian Airlines flight MH-17 has been shot out of
the skies by somebody, but we still don’t know the truth and all sorts of hypotheses
are circulating on the Internet.

In the West, the Emperor Barak Ist decreed on the day after the actual shoot-down
that the party responsible for this atrocity was, of course, the Novorussians. That is
as predictable as it is irrelevant since not a shred of evidence has been presented
by anybody in the West.

In contrast, the Russians did provide quite a lot of evidence, but it was all
immediately dismissed without further ado. Again, this is also as predictable as it is
irrelevant.’

Read more: Why MH17 Was Most Likely Shot Down by a Ukrainian Su-25 Jet


http://russia-insider.com/en/why-mh17-was-most-likely-shot-down-ukrainian-su-25-jet/ri9362

[Hervé]

An interesting reaction from Dutch KLM... propaganda war (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?81350-When-Money-Plays-Harp...-errr...&p=994571&viewfull=1#post994571)!

[Cidersomerset]

The Malaysian MH17 Crash Investigation: Dutch Safety Board (DSB) Prepares ‘Missile Attack On Moscow’

By David Icke on 17th September 2015 Political Manipulation, Problem-Reaction-Solution, War and Terror

http://www.davidicke.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/09/get-attachment-13.jpg

‘The Dutch Government has decided to launch a missile attack on Moscow in October.
By suppressing all evidence obtained from the bodies of victims of the crash of Malaysian
Airlines MH17, officials of the Dutch Safety Board and associated Dutch military officers,
police and prosecutors are preparing to release a report on the crash with a gaping hole
in its veracity.

At the same time, and apparently unknown in The Netherlands, an Australian coroners’
report on the identification and forensic testing of the bodies carried out in The Netherlands
reveals post-mortem evidence to show that in their public statements the Dutch government
officials have been lying about metal evidence they claim to have found. This evidence has
not only been buried with the passengers’ remains. It has been buried by the Dutch
Government and by coroners in the UK and Australia, who are now legally required to
investigate independently what caused the deaths of citizens in their jurisdiction. All are
withholding the CT scans, X-rays, autopsy and other post-mortem results, including
metallurgical assays, the documentation of which accompanied the coffins of the aircraft’s
victims from The Netherlands to their homelands.’

Read more: The Malaysian MH17 Crash Investigation: Dutch Safety Board (DSB) Prepares
‘Missile Attack On Moscow’

http://johnhelmer.net/?p=14084#more-14084

[Cidersomerset]

'No one was at MH17 crash site, everyone was telling ‘we know who it was’

3L899xdwDOU

Published on 8 Oct 2015


An official report into the cause of the crash of flight MH17 in eastern Ukraine
hasn't been published yet. Amid speculation over it, RT heard from journalist
Mark Bartal-mai. He was in East Ukraine at the time of the crash and visited
the scene just hours after the tragedy filming enough material for a documentary.


RT LIVE http://rt.com/on-air

[Cidersomerset]

West Fabricates Hype Over MH17 Crash to Suppress Truth – German Media

By David Icke on 17th August 2015 Coverups, War and Terror

http://www.davidicke.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/08/get-attachment-269.jpg


‘Instead of collecting the information that may help in the
search for answers in the crash of the Malaysian airliner MH17, Western media
hypes up and massively publishes low-quality information that contains references
blaming Russia, writes German media outlet Propagandaschau.

The absence of convincing evidence suggests an attempt to conceal the facts,
Propagandaschau reports.Soon after the crash of the MH17 flight, Western media
began their “propaganda battle” in which Donbass militia forces and Russia were
accused of the tragedy. There was so much hype created but the facts are still so
scarce that it is impossible to get rid of the impression that there is a deliberate
plot to try and hide something, the German outlet noted.’

Read more: West Fabricates Hype Over MH17 Crash to Suppress Truth – German Media

http://sputniknews.com/europe/20150816/1025813294.html

[Cidersomerset]

The Malaysian MH17 Crash Investigation: Dutch Safety Board (DSB) Prepares ‘Missile Attack On Moscow’

By David Icke on 17th September 2015 Political Manipulation, Problem-Reaction-Solution, War and Terror

http://www.davidicke.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/09/get-attachment-13.jpg

‘The Dutch Government has decided to launch a missile attack on Moscow in October.
By suppressing all evidence obtained from the bodies of victims of the crash of Malaysian
Airlines MH17, officials of the Dutch Safety Board and associated Dutch military officers,
police and prosecutors are preparing to release a report on the crash with a gaping hole
in its veracity.

At the same time, and apparently unknown in The Netherlands, an Australian coroners’
report on the identification and forensic testing of the bodies carried out in The Netherlands
reveals post-mortem evidence to show that in their public statements the Dutch government
officials have been lying about metal evidence they claim to have found. This evidence has
not only been buried with the passengers’ remains. It has been buried by the Dutch
Government and by coroners in the UK and Australia, who are now legally required to
investigate independently what caused the deaths of citizens in their jurisdiction. All are
withholding the CT scans, X-rays, autopsy and other post-mortem results, including
metallurgical assays, the documentation of which accompanied the coffins of the aircraft’s
victims from The Netherlands to their homelands.’

Read more: The Malaysian MH17 Crash Investigation: Dutch Safety Board (DSB) Prepares
‘Missile Attack On Moscow’

http://johnhelmer.net/?p=14084#more-14084

[Cidersomerset]

'No one was at MH17 crash site, everyone was telling ‘we know who it was’

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Published on 8 Oct 2015


An official report into the cause of the crash of flight MH17 in eastern Ukraine
hasn't been published yet. Amid speculation over it, RT heard from journalist
Mark Bartal-mai. He was in East Ukraine at the time of the crash and visited
the scene just hours after the tragedy filming enough material for a documentary.


RT LIVE http://rt.com/on-air

[Akasha]

Official report only a week away.

[Operator]

Three days ago dutch news sites ran with an article about the possibility of a bomb in the cockpit:

http://www.powned.tv/nieuws/binnenland/2015/10/mh17_gecrasht_door_bom_in_cock.html

http://www.telegraaf.nl/binnenland/24579637/___Crash_MH17_door_bom_cockpit___.html

http://www.spitsnieuws.nl/binnenland/2015/10/russische-bron-komt-met-nieuwe-mh17-theorie

http://forum.fok.nl/topic/2254414?token=d0a7ed107a6824bd899d7209ac4e72dc

http://www.hbvl.be/cnt/dmf20151006_01904804/crashte-mh17-toch-door-een-bom-aan-boord

Summarized the articles have this in common:


A mysterious research report surfaced that contains a new theory about the cause of the crash of flight MH17. The Military Intelligence and Security Service (MIVD) received the document held by some Dutch who would have received it from a Russian source.

From this it would appear that there was explosive placed in the cockpit, which was detonated above the Ukrainian battlefield. Parts of the report have yet to be translated from Russian.

"We are waiting for findings from the Research Council," said spokesman Martin Hilbrandie MIVD. "We have taken note of the file and the audio and video files, but it does not affect our conclusions," reports the Research Council. One should be alert to disinformation, warns a Hague intelligence source. "At this stage, it is not uncommon that all kinds of disinformation is actively distributed."


Well, well everything else they make up we should believe immediately but this of course should be put aside because it likely is disinformation ... seriously ?

[Cidersomerset]

Clerk promises 'truth' about MH17 ahead of official report

PR_bO48IBgs

Published on 8 Oct 2015


An official report into the cause of the crash of flight MH17 in eastern Ukraine
hasn't been published yet. But the website Bellingcat run by Eliot Higgins,
former office worker, is to publish its own findings today. Higgins believes his
site is 'a resource for citizen investigative journalists'.


RT LIVE http://rt.com/on-air

[Cidersomerset]

Clerk promises 'truth' about MH17 ahead of official report

PR_bO48IBgs

Published on 8 Oct 2015


An official report into the cause of the crash of flight MH17 in eastern Ukraine
hasn't been published yet. But the website Bellingcat run by Eliot Higgins,
former office worker, is to publish its own findings today. Higgins believes his
site is 'a resource for citizen investigative journalists'.


RT LIVE http://rt.com/on-air

[Hervé]

Moscow asks UN aviation agency to intervene into MH17 probe - report (https://www.rt.com/news/318316-russia-mh17-probe-letter-icao/)

Published time: 11 Oct, 2015 16:32


https://cdn.rt.com/files/2015.10/original/561970f7c3618847558b45aa.jpg
© Maxim Zmeyev / Reuters



Russia has appealed to the head of the UN aviation agency to intervene in the investigation into the MH17 crash in Ukraine to prevent the Dutch experts in charge from ignoring the findings of their Russian counterparts, according to a new media report.

The Deputy Chief of Russia’s Federal Air Transport Agency, Oleg Storchevoy, sent a letter to Olumuyiwa Benard Aliu, the head of the International Civil Aviation Organization (ICAO), after becoming acquainted with a draft of the final report by the Dutch Safety Board (DSB), which is heading the probe. This was revealed by Malaysian newspaper the New Straits Times (http://www.nst.com.my/news/2015/10/russians-angered-dutch-probe) on Sunday.

The letter, received by the ICAO on September 16, states that the DSB ignored “comprehensive information” provided by the Russian side and relating to the downing of the Boeing 777 over war-torn Eastern Ukraine on July 17, 2014, the media report said. In the letter, Storchevoy said that, in conducting its investigation, the DSB had violated the principle of “sequence of conclusions,” one of the most fundamental rules when conducting probes into air crashes.

He went on to explain that, instead of conducting its investigation in a logical order, by first examining the damage to the airplane and then, based on this analysis, drawing conclusions as to its cause and source, the DSB had begun with an assumed hypothesis, and worked backward to demonstrate that the evidence met the criteria necessary to prove their preconceived conclusion.

He stated that the DSB steered the investigation to prove that the aircraft was destroyed by a BUK missile launched from a certain location.

“This is before any research into the characteristics of the warhead which brought down the plane was done. The basic data and methods of identifying where the missile was fired from were also not explained by the DSB,” the letter said, as quoted by the New Straits Times.

The US and EU blame Eastern Ukrainian rebels, who were fighting government forces in the area at the time, for downing the plane with a BUK missile system provided by Russia. The claims have been repeatedly denied by both the rebel militias and Moscow, which have urged the West to wait for the official results of the investigation.


http://www.sott.net/image/s13/273461/large/CQN90LiUAAApXyk.jpg (http://www.sott.net/image/s13/273461/full/CQN90LiUAAApXyk.jpg)
© RT E.Ukraine self-defense hand over MH17 debris to Dutch investigators, following RT documentary.


During two meetings with the DSB, Almaz-Antey, the designer and producer of BUK missile systems, declassified the specifications of its rockets - the 9M38 and 9M38M1 surface-to-air missile systems to aid the inquiry, the letter said.

The details provided by Almaz-Antey included technical specifications, flight and ballistics characteristics, launch parameters, algorithms governing the detonator and characteristics of the warhead, the report said.

Storchevoy added that the Russian arms maker also provided detailed data describing the damage that would have been incurred by the Boeing had it been hit by a BUK missile, but the DSB refused to consider any of this information, as well as other Russian findings.

“All these detailed calculations were ignored by the DSB. As a result, the DSB arrived at conclusions that contradict common sense and are not consistent with the design of this weapons system,” he said.

He added that the DSB draft report also had discrepancies with regards to the metallurgical properties of the missile and size of the warhead.

“According to the [DSB] calculations, the weight of the warhead was no more than 33kg, and the main warhead was equipped with between 3,000 and 4,000 ‘pre-formed fragments’ that weighed around 3g each. These do not correspond with the BUK at all.”

According to the Russian side, the Dutch experts also failed to properly document and examine the metal fragments found at the crash site in Eastern Ukraine.

“[The fragments] were submitted half a year later, after the investigation began. As a result, a year after the accident, there is no proof to connect the pre-formed fragments with missiles of any type.”

“Taking the abovementioned into consideration, there is no proof that this aircraft was destroyed by the BUK rocket,” he concluded.

The Netherlands was put in charge of the probe because the majority of the 298 people who died in the crash were Dutch citizens. The Dutch have been heading two international investigations into the crash: a criminal inquiry and the probe into the crash’s causes (the latter headed by the DSB).

The DBS earlier announced that it would release the long-awaited final report on October 13 this year.

READ MORE:

Dutch media sue govt, demand it release full info on MH17 crash (https://www.rt.com/news/318051-dutch-media-mh17-lawsuit/)

MH17 investigators to RT: No proof east Ukraine fragments from ‘Russian’ Buk missile (https://www.rt.com/news/312192-mh17-investigators-buk-missile/)

[Cidersomerset]

http://static.bbci.co.uk/frameworks/barlesque/2.88.1/orb/4/img/bbc-blocks-dark.png

MH17 Ukraine disaster: Dutch to report on cause

2 hours ago

fCZAKb0_MVk
Dutch investigators are to publish their report into
what caused Malaysia Airlines flight MH17 to crash

The Dutch Safety Board is to publish a final report on why Malaysian Airlines Flight
MH17 broke up over Ukraine in 2014, killing all 298 on board.

Preliminary findings say it was hit by "high-energy objects from outside the
aircraft", fuelling speculation that a surface-to-air missile was responsible.

The West and Ukraine say Russian-backed rebels brought down the Boeing 777,
while Russia blames Ukraine. But the report will not say who was to blame.

Russia is to issue its own report.

The plane - flying from Amsterdam to Kuala Lumpur - crashed in rebel-held eastern
Ukraine on 17 July 2014 at the height of the conflict between government troops
and the pro-Russian separatists.

The victims included 196 Dutch nationals and 10 Britons.

Four questions

The Dutch Safety Board is expected to present its findings first to the victims'
families and relatives and then to reporters at the Gilze-Rijen military base in the
Netherlands.

The board will also show parts of the aircraft that have been brought back from the
rebel-held Donetsk region and reconstructed.

Read More.....http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-34511973

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Dutch report unlikely to assign blame for MH17 crash

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Published on 12 Oct 2015

The Dutch Safety Board is due to release its final report Tuesday on the downing of
Malaysian Airlines Flight MH17. The passenger plane crashed over eastern Ukraine
on July 17 last year, leaving all 298 people onboard dead, most of them Dutch
citizens. Preliminary findings suggested that a ground-to-air missile shot down the
plane. However, facts remain elusive, and many believe the report will not bring
about a final conclusion.

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LIVE: Russian arms manufacturer Almaz-Antey delivers MH17 report

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Started on 13 Oct 2015


Russian arms manufacturer Almaz-Antey is presenting the results of its probe into
the alleged missile launch that may have downed the MH17 Malaysian Airlines
plane over eastern Ukraine, July 17, 2014.

RT LIVE http://rt.com/on-air

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'MH17 crash' test simulation video: Il-86 plane cockpit hit with BUK missile

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Published on 13 Oct 2015


The BUK system’s manufacturer Almaz-Antey releases its report on last year’s
MH17 crash over eastern Ukraine and is shows a video of simulated BUK missile
explosion right next to a pilot's cockpit.

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