Malaysian Plane MH17 shot down with over 295 on board. But by who?

[jc71]

Well this piqued my interest.

A Malaysian Boeing 777 crashes near to Ukraine with 295 on board.

MH17 is its flight number.

It will be interesting to see how this pans out. One Malaysian plane completely disappears, MH370. And now one appears to have crashed in a warzone.

http://news.sky.com/story/1302864/malaysian-plane-crashes-with-295-on-board

JC

[Sean]

Well this piqued my interest.

A Malaysian Boeing 777 crashes near to Ukraine with 295 on board.

MH17 is its flight number.

It will be interesting to see how this pans out. One Malaysian plane completely disappears, MH370. And now one appears to have crashed in a warzone.

http://news.sky.com/story/1302864/malaysian-plane-crashes-with-295-on-board

JC


story now says the plane was shot down.

[SilentFeathers]

This is rather a huge event.....this could actually be the trigger event for an all out shooting war in that location of the Ukraine/Russia.


A Malaysian passenger plane with 295 people on board has been shot down as it flew above eastern Ukraine, according to aviation sources.

The plane, which is believed to have been flying from Amsterdam to Kuala Lumpur, was travelling at an altitude of 10km (6.2 miles) when it was shot down, Russia's Inferfax reported.

The aircraft, reportedly a Boeing 777, was brought down by a ground-to-air missile, an adviser to the Ukrainian interior ministry quoted by the news agency said.
http://news.sky.com/story/1302864/malaysian-plane-shot-down-with-295-on-board

I'm wondering if this is the false flag we've been waiting for, hence, actually the missing Malaysian Jet Flight 370

[panopticon]

Story originate with the Russian Interfax News Agency (http://www.interfax.com/) (which I can't load atm, maybe it's crashed?).

More articles:
http://www.aljazeera.com/news/europe/2014/07/report-malaysian-jet-crashes-near-ukraine-2014717151147473508.html
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/ukraine/10974050/Malaysia-Airlines-plane-crashes-on-Ukraine-Russia-border-live.html
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jul/17/malaysia-airlines-plane-crash-east-ukraine?CMP=fb_gu
http://rt.com/news/173616-malaysian-crash-ukraine-border/
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-28354856

Malaysian Airlines twitter:
https://twitter.com/MAS

-- Pan

[sigma6]

Why Malaysian planes? I'd say at two "Malaysian" 777's, we can safely say this is beyond random. The question is what is the ulterior angle? Are they anti Israel? Anti US on some policy? I heard that the NWO candidate narrowly lost an election vote? And therefore there was some talk that they would be a target for further destabilization... The same thing the Western Backed Neo Nazis are doing in Ukraine. This is the NWO, London/Vatican/Banking Cabal against the BRICS and 180 countries in the final rounds.

This is how cowards start wars, secretly killing people and blowing up property, while the MSM "covers the story" (get it?) Then 6 months later act like it was a war all along... (as long as you reference the word with "quotation" marks)

Interestingly Malaysia and Ukraine are major pivot points... against China and Russia respectively... there is a WAR going on, a Gang war...

[Dorjezigzag]

One Ukrainian official claims MH17 was shot down by a missile fired from a Buk launcher, while flying at an altitude of 33,000ft.

The footage below shows the type of missile launcher they say was involved

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/malaysia-airlines-plane-crash-live-3875008

TNSMjPxhmrY

Also this from Reuters Malaysian plane was brought down by a ground-to-air missile says Malaysia Interior Ministry adviser, quoted by Interfax

An emerging narrative?

"Former UK ambassador to Russia Sir Tony Brenton tells the BBC if the plane has been shot down it has "quite profound political implications". He says sanctions and "world condemnation" of the pro-Russia rebels could follow if it turns out they have shot down the plane."


The other side comments.

"The portable air defence systems which we have, they work at a maximum of three to four thousand metres. Therefore, it is possible to say virtually before the start of the investigation that the Ukrainian armed forces destroyed this," separatist spokesman Sergey Kavtaradze says

The plot thickens...

A tweet (in Russian) from a key Twitter account used by pro-Russian separatists, in which they claim to have captured a Buk surface-to-air missile system, has now been deleted, BBC Monitoring observes. Ukrainians say the Malaysian plane could have been downed with a Buk, but pro-Russian rebels have now denied they have it

[SilentFeathers]

Why Malaysian planes? I'd say at two "Malaysian" 777's, we can safely say this is beyond random. The question is what is the ulterior angle? Are they anti Israel? Anti US on some policy? I heard that the NWO candidate narrowly lost an election vote? And therefore there was some talk that they would be a target for further destabilization... The same thing the Western Backed Neo Nazis are doing in Ukraine. This is the NWO, London/Vatican/Banking Cabal against the BRICS and 180 countries in the final rounds.

This is how cowards start wars, secretly killing people and blowing up property, while the MSM "covers the story" (get it?) Then 6 months later act like it was a war all along... (as long as you reference the word with "quotation" marks)

This will likely bankrupt Malaysian Airlines, it'll be interesting to see who "swiftly" sweeps in to take over or merge with this multi-billion dollar airline company......and will control this area of the globe's airline industry.

[Agape]

Such a stupid stupid people . What are they going to do now, just say 'sorry Malaysia' ? I can't believe I'm seeing this .
Maybe it's not true . Wait for evening news . Go for a walk ..

This is not fair :cry:

[MorningFox]

The sheer ignorance of the common person really is scary, certainly in this day and age of abundantly available information...

http://i.imgur.com/jKQSP06.png

Not that I know anything about it but we can safely say it's not a coincidence.

[TargeT]

Just remember, all we actually know is that contact with the plane was lost.


everything else is speculation.

[Hervé]

MALAYSIA PASSENGER PLANE CRASHES IN EAST UKRAINE — 295 ABOARD (http://www.businessinsider.com/malaysian-plane-crash-russia-border-2014-7?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+businessinsider+%28Business+Insider%29)

http://static2.businessinsider.com/image/52ffe7146bb3f77a39f06b77-50-50/michael-b-kelley.jpg (http://www.businessinsider.com/author/michael-b-kelley) Michael B Kelley (http://www.businessinsider.com/author/michael-b-kelley) Jul. 17, 2014, 11:13 AM

http://static4.businessinsider.com/image/53c7e9bdecad045a24a32dbf-1200-924/screen%20shot%202014-07-17%20at%2011.17.50%20am.png
YouTube


A Boeing 777 Malaysia Airlines passenger plane crashed in eastern Ukraine near the Russian border earlier today, Interfax is reporting (http://www.interfax.ru/world/386411), citing "a source in the aviation circles." "Malaysia Airlines has lost contact of MH17 from Amsterdam.," the Malaysia Airlines tweeted (https://twitter.com/MAS/statuses/489795857101750272). "The last known position was over Ukrainian airspace."

There were reportedly 295 people onboard when it crashed at Torez, which is about 25 miles from the Russian border. A Reuters correspondent on the scene sees (https://twitter.com/shaunwalker7/status/489805959309828098) burning wreckage of the plane and bodies strewn on the ground.

An adviser to the Ukraine Interior Minister says the passenger plane was (https://twitter.com/AP/status/489795700872720384) shot down by a Russian-made Buk (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Buk-M1-2_9A310M1-2.jpg) ground-to-air missile system.
Interfax Ukraine reports plane was shot down using 'Buk' missile system. Medium range surface-to-air missile system pic.twitter.com/CSQCYKWMem (http://t.co/CSQCYKWMem)
— Olaf Koens (@obk) July 17, 2014 (https://twitter.com/obk/statuses/489797321644056577)The area is a stronghold of pro-Russian rebels who are fighting the Ukrainian army. The separatists deny responsibility (http://www.gazeta.ru/social/news/2014/07/17/n_6318717.shtml) (via The Interpreter (http://www.interpretermag.com/ukraine-liveblog-day-150-ukrainian-troops-describe-grad-rocket-attack-from-russia/#3382)), but they did claim (https://twitter.com/cbrulak/status/489798932013146112/photo/1) to shoot down a "Ukrainian Transport plane" in the same area earlier today.

On July 8, the State Aviation Administration of Ukraine closed the airspace to civilian aircraft after a military transport plane, which was flying at an altitude of over 20,000 feet, was shot down (http://theaviationist.com/2014/06/14/ukrainian-il-76-downed/) by rebels.

The Interpreter reports (http://www.interpretermag.com/ukraine-liveblog-day-150-ukrainian-troops-describe-grad-rocket-attack-from-russia/#3384) that the Ukrainian military has been claiming that separatists have advanced missiles for a week after the transport plane went down.
.@RT_russian (https://twitter.com/RT_russian) posts 1st pics from #MH17 (https://twitter.com/hashtag/MH17?src=hash) crash site in Eastern Ukraine pic.twitter.com/mHh0ZKGJYl (http://t.co/mHh0ZKGJYl)
— Maxim Eristavi (@MaximEristavi) July 17, 2014 (https://twitter.com/MaximEristavi/statuses/489805843584802816)President Barack Obama is “aware” of reports of the plane crash, a White House official told Business Insider.

Mashable news editor Brian Ries tweeted (https://twitter.com/moneyries/status/489793595025940480) the route of the flight MH17:


http://static2.businessinsider.com/image/53c7eb96ecad04d62ea32dbe-682-514/bswyrchcmaacvmq.png
Flight Tracker


Ukrainian activists also published a video they say shows the wreckage.

******************************************************************

Why the hell was it flying within a restricted airspace?

Another 777 turned drone?

[SilentFeathers]

Just remember, all we actually know is that contact with the plane was lost.


everything else is speculation.

At this point it almost doesn't matter what happened considering the media already has the masses brainwashed that it was shot down....

[Lifebringer]

Wondering if they are staging a "blame on Russia" to get WW3 started, when it was really reich wing rebel contractors that had the weapons to shoot down the plane. Don't forget that they also speak Russian, and a set up could be afoot. This is tragicly disgusting the loss of life for riches and power. They've got to be stopped and apprehended. Let us pray....that they find them and connect the dots and put them where they need to be. IN straight jackets, the psychos.

[MorningFox]

Was it definitely in restricted airspace?

[Lifebringer]

Another 777 remote guidance into a war zone. If I were the other nations, I would NEVER USE BOEING ANYTHING. They are SSG and have been for over 70 years. The owner went to his dying bed and posted on YT, what they were doing, hoping to gain mercy and forgiveness for what they have done. I think Boeing got involve w/CIA nazis and had no choice other than to do what they said or be taken over. If they were reverse engineering back then, and they were, then it stands to reason, that they've put gps, and emergency guidance systems in place, to fly planes where ever they want to fly them from a bunker or pc.

Father we ask that you bring this forth that we can truly start prosecuting these monsters. Help us through divine plan to end this chaos on earth that kills innocents at free will. My God, what is taking so long for them to be gotten? Help us Father/Spirit of all that is good in the world and universe. Help us to stop them, in the driveways, at a coffee shop, anywhere they go to relax, as they kill at will.

[Wind]

Two words: not good.

[jerry]

the passenger log may have a lot to reveal as to who why as the finger pointing and denials are full blown

[TargeT]

Just remember, all we actually know is that contact with the plane was lost.


everything else is speculation.

At this point it almost doesn't matter what happened considering the media already has the masses brainwashed that it was shot down....

Yeah, this is clearly the desired narrative.



Malaysian Airlines plane shot down over Ukraine-Russia border; 295 reported dead: Interfax
By Dylan Stableford, Yahoo News1 hour agoYahoo News


A Malaysian Airlines plane carrying was reportedly shot down and crashed near the Ukrainian-Russian border Thursday, killing all 295 people on board, an advisor to Ukraine's interior ministry said.
Flight MH17 was en route to Kuala Lumpur from Amsterdam.

A spokesman for Malaysian Airlines confirmed "an incident" involving one of its flights and is expected to release a statement shortly.
The adviser, quoted by Interfax, said the Maylasian plane was brought down by a ground-to-air missile.

Anton Gerashenko, an adviser to Ukraine's interior minister, wrote on Facebook that the plane was flying at an altitude 33,000 feet when it was hit by a missile fired from a Buk launcher.

White House spokesman Josh Earnest said the White House was aware of reports of the crash but that he was "not in a position to confirm" details. President Barack Obama has been briefed and has directed his national security team to be "in close touch" with Ukrainian authorities, Earnest said.

Obama ignored a shouted question about reports of the crash as he made his way from the Oval Office to Marine One.

The crash comes four months after Malaysian Airlines Flight M370 lost contact less than an hour after takeoff from Kuala Lumpur International Airport and vanished.

That flight, en route to was carrying 227 passengers and 12 crew members.


Strange that the Ukrane is still being incited, I don’t understand the ultimate motive behind bringing attention to the area, but I'm sure we'll know by the weekend what the desired action is......

[Kelly Anne]

the passenger log may have a lot to reveal as to who why as the finger pointing and denials are full blown

Yes...will it be only slightly noticed as the passenger flight of the missing airliner was though? :/

[Lifebringer]

Another 777 remote guidance into a war zone. If I were the other nations, I would NEVER USE BOEING ANYTHING. They are SSG and have been for over 70 years. The owner went to his dying bed and posted on YT, what they were doing, hoping to gain mercy and forgiveness for what they have done. I think Boeing got involve w/CIA nazis and had no choice other than to do what they said or be taken over. If they were reverse engineering back then, and they were, then it stands to reason, that they've put gps, and emergency guidance systems in place, to fly planes where ever they want to fly them, if a hijacker got control of the plane, they can do it from a bunker or pc.

Father we ask that you bring this forth that we can truly start prosecuting these monsters. Help us through divine plan to end this chaos on earth that kills innocents at free will. My God, what is taking so long for them to be gotten? Help us Father/Spirit of all that is good in the world and universe. Help us to stop them, in the driveways, at a coffee shop, anywhere they go to relax, as they kill at will.

Just saying, what's to stop them from remote destroying any plane "they" designed? Faux flag and murder? You betcha.

[indigopete]

I can't believe this.

For weeks the main conspiracy surrounding MH370 was that it had been "commandeered" for use in a later terror attack.

And here we are - an identical MA 777 has turned up in an apparent terror attack.

At face value it looks to me like they're trying to set this up and pin it on the Russians - possibly as the start of a western sponsored strategy to mitigate the impact of the BRICS financial axis getting out of the petrodollar.

Whadyasay ?

[Sidney]

Once again, something smells, and its not cookies baking. How many will eat the sweets in the media this time around I wonder?????

[thunder24]

One Ukrainian official claims MH17 was shot down by a missile fired from a Buk launcher, while flying at an altitude of 33,000ft.



theres buk and 33 again.... im sure just a coincidence...

[Kelly Anne]

I can't believe this.

For weeks the main conspiracy surrounding MH370 was that it had been "commandeered" for use in a later terror attack.

And here we are - an identical MA 777 has turned up in an apparent terror attack.

At face value it looks to me like they're trying to set this up and pin it on the Russians - possibly as the start of a western sponsored strategy to mitigate the impact of the BRICS financial axis getting out of the petrodollar.

Whadyasay ?

This has been what I am seeing...

With both sides denying that they were the ones...

Well, my available media coverage is limited...no cable...so I have internet and whatever is on local here.

At what point will we get information that is reliable/true?

I am cynical and feeling that we will never get it all...because information will be put out just to confuse?

Has this been created for a distraction from something else?

???????

[seeker/reader]

So today flight 17 is downed on 0717

and earlier this year flight 370 disappeared on 0307

Both were Malaysian 777s

Numerology anyone????

[SilentFeathers]

One Ukrainian official claims MH17 was shot down by a missile fired from a Buk launcher, while flying at an altitude of 33,000ft.



theres buk and 33 again.... im sure just a coincidence...

Lots of sevens too: on 7-17, a 777, flight 17, was downed....

[EYES WIDE OPEN]

price of gold has shot up.

¤=[Post Update]=¤

Watching Sky and BBC - already suggesting this is the fault of Russia.

All planes around that area rerouted.

[seko]

I'm going to put this info on the table, may be it does have something to do with Malaysia, may be not.

http://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/opinion/2011/11/20111128105712109215.html


In Kuala Lumpur, after two years of investigation by the Kuala Lumpur War Crimes Commission (KLWCC), a tribunal (the Kuala Lumpur War Crimes Tribunal, or KLWCT) consisting of five judges with judicial and academic backgrounds reached a unanimous verdict that found George W Bush and Tony Blair guilty of crimes against peace, crimes against humanity, and genocide as a result of their roles in the Iraq War.

[Lifebringer]

Strange that the Ukrane is still being incited, I don’t understand the ultimate motive behind bringing attention to the area, but I'm sure we'll know by the weekend what the desired action is.....Well I think I can confirm that there is over 7 pyramids on the Crimea coastline bordering Ukraine, and they want the relics. How much you wanna bet they're looking for the ET weapons of that region?

Soon as the right wingers took over, Putin went in to stop them from pillaging. They are no better than poachers after rare artifacts of war.

Update. The story is they have the black box. Who's to say there's not a copy from another crashing plane and filling in the void. They aren't gonna play the whole thing publicly.:(

[Centauri]

Another Malaysian flight! What a COINCIDENCE. Especially since this stick was poking the be hive.

http://rt.com/usa/164312-flight-malaysia-families-truth-mh370/

Bankrupt Malaysia Airlines? What a convenient thing that would be to stop further investigation.

BRICS going ahead without asking FED persmission? The cabal babies are do for a FIT! Oh look, a mysterious plane crash next to Russia!

The KL court confirming GWB and others of war crimes (another damning lead posted as I was writing this post)

Can we all see where the cabal intends this to go?

Gather all the information you can and mirror websites like crazy. It's time, yet again, for the thinking community to keep the records straight so we can stop this hellish tantrum and hold the people responsible accountable. I'm sure what I just wrote seems like a long string of platitudes but I don't care!

I'm trying to stop myself from feeling awful about this. I get the impression that something wants the sorrow to flow so it can gobble it up. Well, it will get no such meal from me! Instead, I am going to research this to arm myself against a tidal wave of sleepers puking up their official stories and I'm going to think positively for the families who are destroyed right now. I want them to see justice. Non-violent justice. I WILL MANIFEST THIS, DAMNIT!

man.... I want to do more.

[EYES WIDE OPEN]

https://twitter.com/RT_com/status/489818604406603776/photo/1

[Christine]

Putting pieces on the table here... Today I was studying these numbers. 223, 16, and 777. And then I remembered this speech from Christine LeGarde of the IMF.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QYmViPTndxw

None of this is a coincidence. All Eyes on deck friends.. The more we SEE the less effective they will be. Stopping the corruption and death now.


So today flight 17 is downed on 0717

and earlier this year flight 370 disappeared on 0307

Both were Malaysian 777s

Numerology anyone????

[Kelly Anne]

As this will be ongoing...

I wondered what else has happened in the past on July 17th with the ideas of numerology and past political events...

http://www.thepeoplehistory.com/july17th.html

I'm sure there are better sights out there...but I am not good at picking them out

[MorningSong]

Here's what Huffington Post is saying so far:


Malaysia Airlines Plane Crash: Flight Shot Down Over Ukraine (LATEST UPDATES)
The Huffington Post | By Eline Gordts
Posted: 07/17/2014 11:40 am EDT Updated: 43 minutes ago

Interfax news agency reports that a Malaysian jet has crashed in eastern Ukraine, near the Russian border. The Malaysian Airlines passenger plane had 295 people on board and was on its way from Amsterdam to Kuala Lumpur.

Anton Gerashenko, an adviser to Ukraine's Interior Minister, wrote on Facebook that the plane was hit by a missile fired from a Buk launcher over the country's east, the Associated Press reports.

Malaysia Airlines confirmed it had lost contact with flight MH17 and that its last position was over Ukrainian airspace.

A Russian aviation industry source told Reuters that the plane did not enter Russian airspace when expected.

Ukraine's east has seen heavy fighting between the country's military and separatists in recent days. Earlier on Thursday, the Ukrainian military claimed Russian jets had shot down a Ukrainian warplane late Wednesday night.

More from the Associated Press:

KIEV, Ukraine (AP) — A Ukrainian official said a passenger plane carrying 295 people was shot down Thursday over a town in the east of the country, and Malaysian Airlines tweeted that it lost contact with one of its flights over Ukrainian airspace.

Anton Gerashenko, an adviser to Ukraine's interior minister, said on his Facebook page the plane was flying at an altitude of 10,000 meters (33,000 feet) when it was hit by a missile fired from a Buk launcher. A similar launcher was seen by Associated Press journalists near the eastern Ukrainian town of Snizhne earlier Thursday. The Buk missile system can fire missiles up to an altitude of 22,000 meters (72,000 feet).

Malaysia Airlines said on its Twitter feed that it "has lost contact of MH17 from Amsterdam. The last known position was over Ukrainian airspace. More details to follow."

The region has seen severe fighting between Ukrainian forces and pro-Russia separatist rebels in recent days.

On Wednesday evening, a Ukrainian fighter jet was shot down by an air-to-air missile from a Russian plane, Ukrainian authorities said Thursday, adding to what Kiev says is mounting evidence that Moscow is directly supporting the separatist insurgents in eastern Ukraine. Security Council spokesman Andrei Lysenko said the pilot of the Sukhoi-25 jet hit by the air-to-air missile was forced to bail after his jet was shot down.

Pro-Russia rebels, meanwhile, claimed responsibility for strikes Wednesday on two Ukrainian Sukhoi-25 jets. The Ukrainian Defense Ministry said the second jet was hit by a portable surface-to-air missile, but added the pilot was unscathed and managed to land his plane safely

Moscow denies Western charges that is supporting the separatists or sowing unrest in its neighbor. The Russian Defense Ministry couldn't be reached for comment Thursday about the Ukrainian jet and Russia's foreign ministry didn't respond to multiple requests for comment.

Earlier this week, Ukraine said a military transport plane was shot down Monday by a missile fired from Russian territory.

The rebels are known to possess portable anti-aircraft rocket launchers, but Ukrainian officials say that kind of weapon would have been unable to reach Monday's plane at the altitude at which it was flying Monday. Aviation experts, however, have questioned whether the stricken transport plane was flying at the altitude Ukrainian officials had claimed.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/07/17/malaysia-airlines-plane-cras_n_5595516.html

So.. Russia was expecting the plane to enter its air space... but the plane entered Ukraine air space instead... which was closed to civilain (does that include international commercial) air traffic on the 8th according to Amzer Zo's post.... (shaking head back and forth...).. ... could this plane have been highjacked?

Yet.. I'm seeing that AirFrance, Russian Airliner Transaero, German airline Lufthansa and Turkish Airlines have announced that they will avoid Ukraine air space now.

RE: Reuters breaking news feed: http://live.reuters.com/Event/World_News

Here is another map of the plane's planned flight path... not passing over Russian air space at all.... huh?

http://images.scribblelive.com/2014/7/17/c4afe13e-e6ed-4818-91c3-f179fe36c86f_500.png

[indigopete]

Numerology anyone????

No thanks :)

Talk about trying to hammer a square peg in a round hole.

You've fished out 2 digits from the day of one flight and posited that they correspond to the month and day of the other. Airliners fly at 33,000 feet because that's the height of the tropopause where jet engines function optimally - any airliner shot down would have been at or around that height. It's also 10,000 metres - so what ?

As for there being a "load of 7's" - involved there isn't. There are also 1's, 2's 4's and just about every other combination of numbers.

There are loads of "obfuscators" that are put out there to prevent ordinary people from ever getting to the truth and numerology is one of them. About as informative as a blank page but handy for keeping members of the "alt" community with time on their hands occupied with some useless naval gazing.

Sorry for being so stark about it but if we're ever going to get people to wake up and start taking note of priorities that matter then we have to be even handed about it and call out nonsense wherever it transpires. I'm not saying there isn't a degree of symbolism goes on in the conspiracy, I'm saying that's a very different thing from the clueless trainspotter types that go round fishing numbers out at random from here there and everywhere and trying to posit them as evidence of......"something".

The alt community is full of this and don't think the PTB aren't happy about it - they like nothing more than for us concern ourselves with a load of meaningless "chaff".

[Christine]

LOOK everyone that can.. ground this energy now. It wants to take us down a dark tunnel. Pour in the light of consciousness. I am getting how huge this is.. others are looking.

"Let's make it our intent to have this wake up the masses in a major way."

[EYES WIDE OPEN]

Terrorists claim responsibility for shooting down a plane around same time as Mala plane in same area

https://twitter.com/cbrulak/status/489798932013146112/photo/1

[MorningSong]

Here's a Flight radar site that has yet a different flight plan for this flight...anyone interested in documenting this kind of stuff needs to get a screenshot before it's taken off the net..

http://www.flightradar24.com/data/flights/mh17#3d6095b

[EYES WIDE OPEN]

http://lifenews.ru/watch-live LIVE NEWS FEED - VERY GRAPHIC!!!!!!! Bodies everywhere.

[SilentFeathers]

I personally wouldn't toss away the numerology about this event....sorcery and evil wicked demented people thrive on things like astrology, symbolism, numerology, etc.

Not to mention universal and natural law is a mathematical and cosmic given too that has it's own "coincidences" or revelations of revealing truth through numbers and cosmic "signs".

The correct numerology of the sevens concerning this event does involve other numbers....07-17-2014, 777, MH17, regardless of the other numbers, it is quite obvious to me the 7's stand out.

All things must be considered in thorough "detective" work IMO :)

[indigopete]

I personally wouldn't toss away the numerology about this event....

eh. What numerology ?

[donk]

All things must be considered in thorough "detective" work IMO


Including it is most likely an "unsolvable" engineered enigma, not necessarily to start a war, but possibly to distract from something in the real world

[Operator]

Putting pieces on the table here... Today I was studying these numbers. 223, 16, and 777. And then I remembered this speech from Christine LeGarde of the IMF.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QYmViPTndxw
...


Well her 'magical 7' indeed immediately came to mind ...

If it was shot down there should be evidence of launched missiles. However, keep in mind
that this plane left from Schiphol, Amsterdam ... the same airport where they brought on
board, under mysterious circumstances, the 'underwear bomber'. :whistle: :ohwell:

[SilentFeathers]

All things must be considered in thorough "detective" work IMO


Including it is most likely an "unsolvable" engineered enigma, not necessarily to start a war, but possibly to distract from something in the real world

This will distract many away from Israel bombing the hell outta Gaza right now.....

[Kelly Anne]

All things must be considered in thorough "detective" work IMO


Including it is most likely an "unsolvable" engineered enigma, not necessarily to start a war, but possibly to distract from something in the real world

Yea...that's the deal...so many possibilities...

I am looking at all the information with as open of a mind as I can have...which I think there is a lot of ideas on what is happening....

We are all just attempting to figure out what connects with us as to our different points of view and make something of this...

Some of us will focus on one aspect and others another...including as you say as seeing this as a distraction...

Ugh...

[Flash]

LOOK everyone that can.. ground this energy now. It wants to take us down a dark tunnel. Pour in the light of consciousness. I am getting how huge this is.. others are looking.

"Let's make it our intent to have this wake up the masses in a major way."
To wake up the masses in a major way you havee to have information and mostly questions going around in a major way

[avid]

http://www.veteranstoday.com/2014/07/17/777-shot-down-over-ukraine/

Initial stories, traced back to Israeli intelligence, that a Russian jet is responsible for downing the Malaysian Airlines 777 with all aboard, are being disseminated to anyone stupid enough to listen. Showing their hand this early is a monumental blunder.
Here is what we have so far, unconfirmed. An American built F 15 fighter took off from an airfield in Azerbaijan. Back in 2010, Azerbaijan claimed that this and one other airfield was taken over by Armenian militants. However, these two facilities were home to Israeli aircraft that relocated there as while participating in training exercises with the Turkish Air Force. Turkey allowed Israel to train pilots in strategic bombing in areas selected because they closely resembled potential Israeli targets in Iran.
Israel would send 8 aircraft in for training with the Turks, 6 would return to Israel, two went on to Azerbaijan in preparation for a planned air assault on Iran. To aid this effort, Saudi Arabia put out cover stories stating that it had denied Israeli requests to cross their territory to attack Iran.
These bases are supplied through the Georgian seaport of Poti. Armaments for the “attack that never happened” were offloaded in Poti by the USS Grapple in 2010 and shipped with help of Chechen extremists working with the Jamestown Foundation and Rand Corporation.
Those two organizations were recently found to be working with groups in Turkey in support of ISIS operations in Iraq as reported by Jeffrey Silverman, Veterans Today Bureau Chief working out of Tbilisi.
The reason for the attack on the airliner is not clear and can only be speculated on. This is an extremely serious incident. Pro-Russian separatists in the Ukraine have no air defense systems capable of operating that high, or a need for them with air ground attack being their main concern. US surveillance which includes AWAC, drones and satellites is capable of detecting the launch of any air defense missile, ground based, capable of reaching the necessary 32,000 foot altitude.
Such a weapon would have been spotted in seconds and, as all such systems in the region are under continual surveillance due to the sensitive nature of the conflict and the history of allegations made, making claims we expect to be made outlandish.
There are questions. Why two Malaysian Airlines planes? If someone or something so threatening that this act was seen as ”reasonable and justified,” even by the Israelis, was undertaken, we will never hear the truth. Minimally, biological or chemical agents capable of global holocaust would have to have been onboard.
After the disappearance of Flight 370, author Chris Bollyn published photographs of a plane that looked identical to flight 370 stating that plane was in Israel and was likely to be used by that nation in a terror attack. The story, both fascinating and yet reeking of wild conspiracy theory, dominated alternative media for some time. There is now serious reason to reassess the story, why was it written, what were the sources and was it simply a hoax or tied to something far more serious.
The only other possibility is destabilization of the region and to push for a world war. It is reasonable to suggest that an Israeli plane was involved because we know they have the only clandestine capability within the region.
As to the pilot or reason, simply blaming Israel is not supportable, no more than blaming Hamas for murdering the 3 children a few short weeks ago.
Thus, we assume these as high probability:
An aircraft was used, most likely an American built F15 because of range and capability.
Azerbaijan was used because we know of clandestine bases there, which were confirmed by military officers who defected to Iran in 2013.
We know Israel has some role, yet undefined, because they are spreading stories blaming Russia.
As this is a second Malaysian Airlines plane to go down, we look for false stories regarding Israel and Malaysian planes and reassess their meaning.
As is always the case, que bono, who benefits?
We ask readers to watch the world news and those in the region, report directly to our bureau there.
Most unpleasant inferences - but plausible....

[Flash]

In fact make it simple and repeated over and over. ( lesson retained from G Bush jr)

1. Why same company, same plane, same country, twice in a row?

2. Why Ukraine? To start what?

3. In whose interest??

And ask those very simple 3 questions over and over again on all internet channels. Facebook, twitter, forums, to reporters, etc etc everytime the topic is mentioned

[Hervé]

Any body noticed that Gaza disappeared off the map?

[araucaria]

http://lifenews.ru/watch-live LIVE NEWS FEED - VERY GRAPHIC!!!!!!! Bodies everywhere.
Everywhere? I saw a handful several times over.... (this is a short clip being played back in a loop)
Interesting: the ticket that is shown is marked MH 0851: why not MH17? Is 0851 the takeoff time?

[EYES WIDE OPEN]

RT have just said Putin's private jet crossed the same flight path 40 mins after the shoot down at the same height.

[sigma6]

Another 777 remote guidance into a war zone. If I were the other nations, I would NEVER USE BOEING ANYTHING. They are SSG and have been for over 70 years. The owner went to his dying bed and posted on YT, what they were doing, hoping to gain mercy and forgiveness for what they have done. I think Boeing got involve w/CIA nazis and had no choice other than to do what they said or be taken over. If they were reverse engineering back then, and they were, then it stands to reason, that they've put gps, and emergency guidance systems in place, to fly planes where ever they want to fly them from a bunker or pc.

Father we ask that you bring this forth that we can truly start prosecuting these monsters. Help us through divine plan to end this chaos on earth that kills innocents at free will. My God, what is taking so long for them to be gotten? Help us Father/Spirit of all that is good in the world and universe. Help us to stop them, in the driveways, at a coffee shop, anywhere they go to relax, as they kill at will.

What is SSG and which "owner" are you referring to? Do you think you can find this video?... thanks..
I agree though , that could be a plausible scenario, my first instinct was it would be just as easy for them to shoot their own Russian missile, anyone could buy them... But they could also have shut down the plane's communication, then redirect it to fly over Ukrainian airspace as a decoy... and set the Russians up... although by this time it is getting a little risky, and 777s seem to falling out of the sky like flies these days... Basically this is blackmailing every country in the world that has bought 777s. This is not going to go well in the long term for Boeing or the US...

And by this time we might as well just call the players who they are this is the US/London/IMF/Vatican vs Russia/BRICS, 180 countries (who, for the first time, have a real chance at trying to bring equitable distribution of wealth to their people in centuries...)

i.e. NWO vs Russia or since the US is the military arm of the Vatican/Inner City of London/Washington DC Trilateral Commission.... the US vs Russia...

Everyone else is just a pawn.

[MorningSong]

USA Today reports:


FAA warned airlines to avoid Crimea because of conflict

During the hostilities between Ukraine and Russia, the threat of military action against a civilian airliner has been in the air for months.

The Federal Aviation Administration prohibited U.S. airlines in April from flying over Crimea, but because of concerns about air-traffic control rather than military action.

The region covered by the FAA order is south of where Malaysia Airlines flight 17 crashed on Thursday.

But the FAA took the action April 25, which is to remain in effect for one year, because of a dispute between Ukraine and Russia about which country controlled the airspace in the Simferopol region, which covers the Crimean peninsula.

The Russian Federation declared March 28 that it controlled the airspace over Crimea, as well as international airspace above the Black Sea and Sea of Azov. In response, Ukraine created a prohibited area over the Crimean peninsula for flights below 29,000 feet.

Because of the dispute, the International Civil Aviation Organization, a branch of the United Nations, warned airlines April 3 to avoid the area.

"In addition, political and military tension between Ukraine and the Russian Federation remains high, and compliance with air traffic control instructions issued by the authorities of one country could result in a civil aircraft being misidentified as a threat and intercepted or otherwise engaged by air defense forces of the other country," FAA said.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/travel/news/2014/07/17/faa-crimea-warning/12783569/

There's much discussion going on on Italian tv about the fact that commercial airlines were still flying over that area....

This is what the area looked like around 16:37UTC posted on the reuters feed:

http://images.scribblelive.com/2014/7/17/39b1059f-562a-4631-a665-b4a726ac57b0_800.png

[avid]

Any body noticed that Gaza disappeared off the map?
You mean 'off the radar' or literally off the map?
I know that Gaza news has been marginalised due to 'other things' - especially by the BBC!

[Elainie]

So today flight 17 is downed on 0717

and earlier this year flight 370 disappeared on 0307

Both were Malaysian 777s

Numerology anyone????


uh yeah..........

[sigma6]

All things must be considered in thorough "detective" work IMO


Including it is most likely an "unsolvable" engineered enigma, not necessarily to start a war, but possibly to distract from something in the real world

We may never likely get the real story for 20 to 50 years plus... (so I'm not waitin') I am going on record and using some "common sense", logic and straight bets...


1) This event was not random, i.e. whoever wanted that plane downed had premeditated it.

2) It's public knowledge that Boeing 777's can be remoted controlled. We now have double evidence of that... (either that or you have won the lottery twice in 6 months, and goody for you...)

3) Whatever interpretation is behind hitting on Boeing 777s and in particular Malaysian owned Boeing 777s, it would not make any sense for the Russians to shoot down a civilian passenger plane of an Asian country on their own Border.

4) The fact that they shot down an Ukrainian (another?) transport just recently, (btw that is interesting news if they did, because I never heard about a second transport being shot down on MSM???) doesn't mean they shot down the Malaysian 777... But this is news now? all of a sudden after a Malaysian Boeing 777 is down this is news... doesn't that sound a bit like payback?

5) We actually don't know how or what happened to make it come down. If it was a Russian missile. We have seen the same strategy in Syria with the poison gas. So it is totally open.

6) And now we are hearing of British (go figure) ambassador making the ever so clever "insinuation" that is MIGHT be the "PRO RUSSIAN" Ukrainians... within hours after it is downed with no evidence, no research (that usually takes weeks, months, and years) That alone is SUSPECT...

All this leads me to believe this is total PSYOP, even if the Russians DID shoot a plane out of the sky at 33,000 ft. (which I am not leaning towards, given the make and ethnicity of the plane in question) We don't know the full context.

We do know we live in the age of high technology, and it is in the control of some of the most deceptive and manipulative people on the planet, who would stop at nothing to maintain their geo political control, which basically translates into poverty for the rest of the planet.

So we are going to HAVE TO START DOING SOME HARD speculation, based on as much peripheral data. I'm not waiting for mainstream media. And I will be adjusting this model (like any good scientist as more facts and information come in)

Remember they have basically said the latest research done by top experts on MH370 is that the plane was sabotaged electronically, but NONE of that has been picked up by mainstream media. So this will keep happening until people wake up and start getting serious about it... This DOES have the potential to affect the entire globe. This IS a WAR going on. Call it what it is... Don't wait for some talking head to adjust (and limit) your thinking with a steaming load of cryptic double talk.

[Zionbrion]

https://my.news.yahoo.com/-mh17--malaysia-airlines-flight-mh17-crash---live-report-161739674.html
Live updates of known information
RT updates
http://rt.com/news/173628-malaysian-plane-crash-ukraine/

[Roisin]

The world needs to be on ALERT (((NOW))) for nuclear retaliation at the perceived perpetrator of this monumental crime against humanity.

[fifula]

Well about month ago we saw puzzle A http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/austria/10898385/13-planes-vanish-from-radars-over-Europe.html and now we have seen puzzle B. A + B = ?

[MorningSong]

The RAI Italy tv correspondant in Ukraine is saying that the Ukraine gov't has a registration intercepted of Pro-Russian rebels discussing having hit a civilian plane with a missle.. and can already be found on UT in Russian..... wow..my digital tv signal for the RAI channel just disappeared... completely blacked-out...

[SilentFeathers]

Boeing 777 has excellent track record, experts say (http://www.usatoday.com/story/money/business/2014/07/17/boeing-777-safe-track-record/12786181/)
July 17, 2014
The Boeing 777 is considered one of the safest planes in the world by aviation analysts and the crash today of a Malaysia Airlines plane in Ukraine seems unlikely to change that record unless the cause is traced to a flaw.

Hmmmmm?????????????? with two downed and or missing in the last 4 months and over 500 people missing and or dead????? Hmmmm???? Sounds like a good track-record to me!!!!!!!!!! dah

Personally, I'd have to say they are the most dangerous planes to be on today!

[BIG CAT]

Innocent people died today, whatever the reason or politics or lies behind this tragedy maybe we should think about those poor souls and their loved ones and offer our prayers to them all.

[MorningFox]

If I were the other nations, I would NEVER USE BOEING ANYTHING. They are SSG and have been for over 70 years. The owner went to his dying bed and posted on YT, what they were doing, hoping to gain mercy and forgiveness for what they have done.

Do you have a source for that information please?

[sigma6]

Well about month ago we saw puzzle A http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/austria/10898385/13-planes-vanish-from-radars-over-Europe.html and now we have seen puzzle B. A + B = ?

Good article fifula, I am adding the text and bumping here.. Pretty much nails it ... this is "unprecedented" and could very well be the fingerprints we are looking for... Someone was more then hacking, they were "testing"...

An air-safety investigation has been launched after 13 planes flying over Europe disappeared from radar screens in two "unprecedented" blackouts, leading to reports stating air traffic control systems had been hacked. The aircraft went missing from screens across the region in early June, leaving air traffic controllers with no information about their position, direction and height – instead relying on voice communication alone. Air traffic control centres in Austria, southern Germany, the Czech Republic and Slovakia all reported the same problem with each period of interference lasting around 25 minutes but varying from flight to flight. Marcus Pohanka, from Austro Control, described the incidents, which occurred on June 5 and June 10 as "unprecedented," although the authorities stressed that all the aircraft involved continued with their flights as normal.
Concerns over air safety and radar have been heightened since the disappearance of a Malaysian Airlines flight in March.

[sigma6]

Boeing 777 has excellent track record, experts say (http://www.usatoday.com/story/money/business/2014/07/17/boeing-777-safe-track-record/12786181/)
July 17, 2014
The Boeing 777 is considered one of the safest planes in the world by aviation analysts and the crash today of a Malaysia Airlines plane in Ukraine seems unlikely to change that record unless the cause is traced to a flaw.

Hmmmmm?????????????? with two downed and or missing in the last 4 months and over 500 people missing and or dead????? Hmmmm???? Sounds like a good track-record to me!!!!!!!!!! dah

Personally, I'd have to say they are the most dangerous planes to be on today!

... it should add ... or if the cause is traced to remotely taking control of the plane and cutting off it's communications by the CIA. Think how desperate they must be to play this card twice in four months? Maybe they really are running out of cards to play... This is such a good card too, and it is all but played out...

And the cost to Boeing will be forever.

http://cs616019.vk.me/v616019182/15f42/NfJ1M9PvpGU.jpg

[Hervé]

The RAI Italy tv correspondant in Ukraine is saying that the Ukraine gov't has a registration intercepted of Pro-Russian rebels discussing having hit a civilian plane with a missle.. and can already be found on UT in Russian..... wow..my digital tv signal for the RAI channel just disappeared... completely blacked-out...

And so the "They did it!" war started... but... who can afford such missiles... with a little help?

Kiev deployed powerful surface-to-air missile systems to E. Ukraine ahead of the Malaysian plane crash – reports (http://rt.com/news/173636-buk-malaysian-plane-crash/)

Published time: July 17, 2014 18:35
Get short URL (http://rt.com/news/173636-buk-malaysian-plane-crash/)


http://cdn.rt.com/files/news/2a/64/40/00/9.si.jpg
A man stands next to the wreckage of the malaysian airliner carrying 295 people from Amsterdam to Kuala Lumpur after it crashed, in rebel-held east Ukraine, near the town of Shaktarsk, on July 17, 2014.(AFP Photo / Dominique Faget)



The Ukrainian military reportedly deployed a battery of Buk surface-to-air missile systems, capable of bringing down high-flying jets, to the Donetsk region the day before the Malaysian passenger plane crashed in the area.

READ RT'S LIVE UPDATES ON MALAYSIAN PLANE CRASH (http://rt.com/news/173616-malaysian-crash-ukraine-border/)

Itar-Tass and Interfax news agencies are citing a source familiar with the issue, who said that another battery of Buk systems is currently being prepared for shipment to Donetsk region from the Ukrainian city of Kharkov.

The Donetsk region remains the scene of heavy fighting between government troops and the forces of the opposition, which refused to recognize the regime change in Kiev and demand federalization.

A Malaysian Airlines aircraft en route from Amsterdam to Malaysia crashed in Eastern Ukraine – not far from the Russian border – on Thursday.


http://rt.com/files/news/2a/64/40/00/12.jpgBUK.(RIA Novosti / Vadim Braydov)


There were reportedly 280 people and 15 crew members on board the Boeing-777 plane, who reportedly all died in the crash.

There were unconfirmed reports the Malaysian plane was travelling at an altitude of over 10,000 meters when it was allegedly hit by a missile.

There’s no way that the self-defense forces in Donetsk Region are in possession of such complex weaponry, he stressed.

Only S-300 and Buk surface-to-air missile systems are capable of hitting targets at such altitude, the source said.

Buk (Blume) is a family of self-propelled, medium-range surface-to-air missile systems developed by the former USSR and Russia to engage targets at an altitude of up to 30 kilometers.

Chances are high that the Malaysian plane was really downed by the Ukrainian anti-aircraft defense, Yury Karash, pilot and aviation expert, told RT.

“A Boeing-777 is an extremely reliable piece of machinery. Modern planes don’t just crash with no reason,” he said. “Let us recall how a Ukrainian missile downed Russian TU-154 aircraft ten years ago. I can’t completely exclude the possibility the Boeing-777 was also hit by a missile.”

“I don’t know who could’ve shot it down. But I can allege that it was most likely the Ukrainian armed forces: simply because its military – anti-aircraft defense, in particular – are, unfortunately, unqualified. As judging by the overall state of the Ukrainian armed forces, insufficient attention has been paid to their training,” Karash added.

Reports in the Western media hurried to blame the self-defense forces of the People’s Republic of Donetsk for bringing the plane down.


http://rt.com/files/news/2a/64/40/00/11.jpg
AFP Photo / Dominique Faget


The claims were denied by the representatives of the Donetsk People’s Republic, saying that it’s the Ukrainian military, which destroyed the aircraft.

“We simply don’t have such air defense systems. Our man-portable air defense systems have a firing range 3,000 - 4,000 meters. The Boeing was flying at a much higher altitude,” Sergey Kavtaradze, special representative for the prime minister of the Donetsk People’s Republic, explained.

Kavtaradze also expressed condolences to the relatives of all of those who lost their lives in the tragedy.

[Zionbrion]

Ahhhh i feel likes it all happening....breaking news on TV. " Israel launches ground offensive in Gaza"

[fifula]

Yet it could be another interesting puzzle to our jigsaw.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1fytpEF6-EQ&list=UUFjOi1ZpZVErr8EYxg8t1dQ

[Agape]

I hope they'd stop the fighting and launch investigation to who did it , once forever , this is on land , are they telling us they can't handle a piece of land and establish peace ?
Expose them all , whoever they are, rebels or Ukrainians no one knows properly what is happening in the area, it seems to be out of control,
how possibly this new Ukraine is so weak not to be able to handle this ? How Russia is playing the worst possible card in the game ?
Now call them all to responsibility, the world is watching you.

What will any 'economical repercussions' help if people are dying, without mercy .

:angel:

[Christine]

My very first thought on seeing the ground explosion and plume was that if the jet was hit by a missile there would have been a prior air explosion. And as is being shown that there are pieces of the craft over a large area there would not have been a single explosion and smoke plume.


Yet it could be another interesting puzzle to our jigsaw.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1fytpEF6-EQ&list=UUFjOi1ZpZVErr8EYxg8t1dQ

[thepainterdoug]

I hear with my own ears, anderson cooper refer to the anniversary of flight 800 which was also "shot down by a missle".
Happened at 3 40 pm on cnn. Has anyone else heard this?

[MorningSong]

Just in:


Eurocontrol says jet was 1,000 feet above closed airspace

LONDON, July 17 Thu Jul 17, 2014 4:09pm EDT


(Reuters) - A Malaysian airliner which crashed in Ukraine was flying at 33,000 feet, some 1,000 feet above a closed section of airspace, an agency responsible for co-ordinating European airspace said on Thursday.

"According to our information, the aircraft was flying at Flight Level 330 (approximately 10,000 metres/33,000 feet) when it disappeared from the radar," Brussels-based Eurocontrol said.

"This route had been closed by the Ukrainian authorities from ground to flight level 320 (approximately 32,000 feet) but was open at the level at which the aircraft was flying."

Since the crash, all airspace in eastern Ukraine has been closed up to an unlimited height, the statement said. (Reporting by Tim Hepher; Editing by Louise Ireland)

http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/07/17/ukraine-crisis-airplane-eurocontrol-idUSL6N0PS6M220140717

[MorningSong]

Earlier, someone mentioned the fate of Malasian Airlines.... I see this is speculation is already being made:


USA Today: Hard for Malaysia Airlines to survive after two crashes
July 17, 2014, 10:37 p.m. | World — by USA Today

Malaysia Airlines was in dire financial straits even before losing a plane o March 8, and analysts said it may be difficult for the national carrier to continue after the latest crash Thursday.

The reason Flight 370 went missing with 239 people aboard is unknown, and the latest crash of Flight 17 with 295 people aboard might have been caused by hostile military action. But analysts say the two catastrophes could make it difficult for the airline to continue operating.

"It will be tough," said Robert Mann, of R.W. Mann & Co. in Port Washington, N.Y., who noted that the airline and Malaysian tourism generally were already suffering before March.

Despite growing, the airline has lost money for years because of higher fuel costs and airport charges, competition from low-cost carriers and weakening currency against the dollar, according to the company.

"This incident is more grave news for an airline that doesn't need it," said Henry Harteveldt, an analyst at Atmosphere Research Group in San Francisco. "It is imperative for the airline and relevant authorities to determine whether the crash is the result of external fire from the ground, and thus, outside Malaysia Airline's control, or a problem with the aircraft or its crew."

Harteveldt said as a state-backed carrier, the government could keep supporting it. But he doesn't think the airline could survive if the cause of the crash is found to be within the airline's control. And he said the airline would need new CEO leadership if it is to continue because of lingering concerns about the missing plane.....

Continue reading here:

http://www.usatoday.com/story/travel/news/2014/07/17/malaysia-airlines-corporate-background/12781631/

[Agape]

My very first thought on seeing the ground explosion and plume was that if the jet was hit by a missile there would have been a prior air explosion. And as is being shown that there are pieces of the craft over a large area there would not have been a single explosion and smoke plume.


Yet it could be another interesting puzzle to our jigsaw.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1fytpEF6-EQ&list=UUFjOi1ZpZVErr8EYxg8t1dQ

Exactly . Who can even spot an airplane in that height without sunglasses ? They'd have to track it for a while and if they did , they'd also know it's civil airplane .

Did anybody confirm that missile has been launched ? Sure it too would be observed or even filmed ?


I'm merely asking questions .


:angel:

[Operator]

Yet it could be another interesting puzzle to our jigsaw.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1fytpEF6-EQ&list=UUFjOi1ZpZVErr8EYxg8t1dQ

:thumb: Yep, that's what I meant in post 43 (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?73055-Malaysian-Plane-Crashes-With-295-On-Board-Ukrainian-adviser-claims-the-plane-was-shot-down&p=854519&viewfull=1#post854519) ...

If there are missiles involved it wouldn't be too difficult to get that evidence quickly.
And I guess that would identify the culprit too easy.

Getting a plane to fail above a 'hot' area so that it provokes dispute fits much better
in false flag scenario ... it cannot be proven nor denied. Propaganda will fill the blanks.

Although it's quite a while ago I remember all too well some guys in suits that have
unlimited access on Schiphol. They happen to have ties to ... well I'm not sure if I
should finish this sentence :behindsofa:

[MorningSong]

Here's an article reporting what I heard on the Italian TV about them intercepiting the "rebels" discussing having shot down a civilian plane...


SBU intercepts phone conversations of separatists admitting downing a civilian plane (FULL TRANSCRIPT; VIDEO)
July 17, 2014, 10:55 p.m. | Ukraine — by Kyiv Post

Malaysia Airlines Boeing 777-200 flying from Amsterdam to Kuala Lumpur was allegedly shot down by a group of Russian-backed Cossack militants near the village of Chornukhine, Luhansk Oblast, some 80 kilometers north-west of Donetsk, according to recordings of intercepted phone calls between Russian military intelligence officers and members of terrorist groups, released by the country’s security agency (SBU).

One phone call apparently was made at 4:40 p.m. Kyiv time, or 20 minutes after the plane crash, by Igor Bezler, who the SBU says is a Russian military intelligence officer and leading commander of the self-proclaimed Donetsk People’s Republic. He reports to a person identified by Ukraine’s SBU as a colonel in the main intelligence department of the general headquarters of the armed forces of the Russian Federation Vasili Geranin regarding the shot down plane, which is about to be examined by the militants.

The second intercepted conversation released by the Security Service of Ukraine was apparently between militants nicknamed “Major” and “Greek” immediately upon inspection of the crash site.

“It’s 100 percent a passenger (civilian) aircraft,” Major is recorded as saying, as he admitted to seeing no weapons on site. “Absolutely nothing. Civilian items, medicinal stuff, towels, toilet paper.”

In the third part of conversation Cossack commander Nikolay Kozitsin talking to an unidentified militant cynically suggests that the Malaysia Airlines airplane could've been carrying spies, as, otherwise, it would have no business flying in that area.

Read the full transcript of an intercepted phone call below:

http://www.kyivpost.com/content/ukraine/separatists-admit-downing-a-civilian-plane-in-tapped-conversation-full-transcript-356545.html

TV here is reporting that there were 4 French and 23 US nationals among the passengers on the plane ... and that the "rebels" have the black box....

[cursichella1]

Why Malaysian planes? I'd say at two "Malaysian" 777's, we can safely say this is beyond random. The question is what is the ulterior angle? Are they anti Israel? Anti US on some policy? I heard that the NWO candidate narrowly lost an election vote? And therefore there was some talk that they would be a target for further destabilization... The same thing the Western Backed Neo Nazis are doing in Ukraine. This is the NWO, London/Vatican/Banking Cabal against the BRICS and 180 countries in the final rounds.

This is how cowards start wars, secretly killing people and blowing up property, while the MSM "covers the story" (get it?) Then 6 months later act like it was a war all along... (as long as you reference the word with "quotation" marks)
This will likely bankrupt Malaysian Airlines, it'll be interesting to see who "swiftly" sweeps in to take over or merge with this multi-billion dollar airline company......and will control this area of the globe's airline industry.

It'll be interesting to see who had large "puts" on MA stock. Then there's this on U.S. Treasuries from Reuters: http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/07/17/markets-usa-bonds-jetliner-idUSL2N0PS18A20140717

[cursichella1]

I hear with my own ears, anderson cooper refer to the anniversary of flight 800 which was also "shot down by a missle".
Happened at 3 40 pm on cnn. Has anyone else heard this?

It is true. Are we surprised? http://www.usatoday.com/story/travel/news/2014/07/17/malaysia-flight-17-twa-flight-800-annivesary/12784535/


Malaysia crash shares anniversary with TWA Flight 800 USA TODAY - 2 hours ago Oddly, today's crash of a Malaysia Airlines Flight 17 shares a date with another major airline disaster, the crash of TWA Flight 800 over Long ...

[Hervé]

My very first thought on seeing the ground explosion and plume was that if the jet was hit by a missile there would have been a prior air explosion. And as is being shown that there are pieces of the craft over a large area there would not have been a single explosion and smoke plume.

[...]

That similar thought came through me mind as well while looking at the pictures and the video of the "crash" site:


"How come it hit the ground in one piece?"

[SilentFeathers]

Its also the anniversary that czar Nicholas and his family were executed.

[MorningSong]

...found this:


How Satellites Give Clues About Malaysia Jet Attack in Ukraine

A family of satellites known as the U.S. Space Based Infrared System, or SBIRS, was probably key to determining that a surface-to-air missile took down the Malaysia Airlines Boeing 777 jet over Ukraine on Thursday. The satellites fly in geosynchronous orbit, 22,300 miles above the planet, and use infrared sensors to detect heat sources on the ground, such as rocket or missile plumes. Five are operational at all times, and they're supplemented by infrared sensors on other satellites that are part of the Defense Support Program, or DSP.

Since the 1970s, the principal mission of the DSP family has been to detect launches of intercontinental ballistic missiles and sea-launched ballistic missiles via their plumes. During the Vietnam War, defense officials found that the satellites could also detect the signatures of smaller missile launches, midair explosions and nuclear tests. SBIRS readings are downloaded and initially analyzed at Buckley Air National Guard Base in Aurora, Colorado. Last month, Lockheed Martin won a $1.9 billion contract to expand the satellite system.

See the vid entitled: Authorities Will Look for Radar Data, Inferred Info in Malaysia Crash at the link:

http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/ukraine-plane-crash/how-satellites-give-clues-about-malaysia-jet-attack-ukraine-n158741

This too, talks about the sats that could reveal info on who did it and from where:


What Brought Down the Malaysia Airlines Jet Over Ukraine?
By Robert Windrem, Jim Miklaszewski and Courtney Kube

http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/ukraine-plane-crash/what-brought-down-malaysia-airlines-jet-over-ukraine-n158601

[Gardener]

it is also the aniversary of this planes first flight 17 years ago on 17/7 just sayin'

Added: Heard on BBC news

[Zionbrion]

I hear with my own ears, anderson cooper refer to the anniversary of flight 800 which was also "shot down by a missle".
Happened at 3 40 pm on cnn. Has anyone else heard this?

It is true. Are we surprised? http://www.usatoday.com/story/travel/news/2014/07/17/malaysia-flight-17-twa-flight-800-annivesary/12784535/


Malaysia crash shares anniversary with TWA Flight 800 USA TODAY - 2 hours ago Oddly, today's crash of a Malaysia Airlines Flight 17 shares a date with another major airline disaster, the crash of TWA Flight 800 over Long ...

More numerology. TWA flight 800 crashed in 1996 so 1+9+9+6=25 2+5=7. 2014. 2+0+1+4=7.

[MorningSong]

More news on the various nationalities of the poor people on the flight:


Malaysia Airlines official: 154 Dutch passengers on board jet that crashed in Ukraine; 27 Australians, 23 Malaysians, 11 Indonesians, 6 Britons, 4 Germans, 3 from Belgians, 3 Filipinos, 1 Canadian also on board; 53 unaccounted for -

http://www.breakingnews.com/

My heart truely crys out for the loss of these innocent people and for their loved ones who will miss them....

[sigma6]

Putting pieces on the table here... Today I was studying these numbers. 223, 16, and 777. And then I remembered this speech from Christine LeGarde of the IMF.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QYmViPTndxw
...


Well her 'magical 7' indeed immediately came to mind ...

If it was shot down there should be evidence of launched missiles. However, keep in mind
that this plane left from Schiphol, Amsterdam ... the same airport where they brought on
board, under mysterious circumstances, the 'underwear bomber'. :whistle: :ohwell:

hmmm a 777 downed on 7/17 pretty close to their target date of 7/20

[sigma6]

I can't believe this.

For weeks the main conspiracy surrounding MH370 was that it had been "commandeered" for use in a later terror attack.

And here we are - an identical MA 777 has turned up in an apparent terror attack.

At face value it looks to me like they're trying to set this up and pin it on the Russians - possibly as the start of a western sponsored strategy to mitigate the impact of the BRICS financial axis getting out of the petrodollar.

Whadyasay ?

110% (but I have to add more to post)

[Hervé]

Any body noticed that Gaza disappeared off the map?
You mean 'off the radar' or literally off the map?
I know that Gaza news has been marginalised due to 'other things' - especially by the BBC!

... seems like in a few days there won't be much left of it:

Israeli military starts ground operation in Gaza (http://rt.com/news/173700-netanyuahu-ground-operation-gaza/)

Published time: July 17, 2014 19:44
Edited time: July 17, 2014 21:06
Get short URL (http://rt.com/news/173700-netanyuahu-ground-operation-gaza/)


http://img.rt.com/files/news/2a/68/40/00/39.si.jpg
AFP Photo / Thomas Coex


Israeli prime minister Benjamin Netanyahu has ordered the military to start a ground operation in Gaza, his office has announced.

"The prime minister and defence minister have instructed the IDF to begin a ground operation tonight in order to hit the terror tunnels from Gaza into Israel," the statement said.

FOLLOW UPDATES on Israel's military offensive in Gaza (http://on.rt.com/qj82uk)

A large IDF force has launched a new phase of Operation Protective Edge starting a ground operation in the Gaza Strip, IDF spokesperson has confirmed.
BREAKING NEWS: A large IDF force has just launched a ground operation in the Gaza Strip. A new phase of Operation Protective Edge has begun.
— IDF (@IDFSpokesperson) July 17, 2014 (https://twitter.com/IDFSpokesperson/statuses/489857447226388480)
According to the statement, IDF goal is to target Hamas tunnels “enable terrorists to infiltrate Israel and carry out attacks.”

"We are now continuing with the ground forces to strike terrorist infrastructure, Hamas infrastructure, in multiple areas throughout the Gaza Strip," army spokesman Lieutenant-Colonel Peter Lerner told reporters.

"Following 10 days of Hamas attacks by land, air and sea, and after repeated rejections of offers to deescalate the situation, the Israel Defence Forces (army) has initiated a ground operation within the Gaza Strip," the IDF said in a statement, according to AFP.

The IDF also accused Hamas of using civilian deaths to paint Israel’s actions in a negative light.

"In the face of Hamas' tactics to leverage civilian casualties in pursuit of its terrorist goals, the IDF will continue in its unprecedented efforts to limit civilian harm," it said.

Hamas spokesman meanwhile said Israel's move is "foolish" and will have "dreadful consequences."

Witnesses and Gaza residents reported heavy artillery and naval shelling along the Gaza border.

WATCH LIVE feed of Gaza skyline (http://rt.com/on-air/israel-military-operation-gaza/)


http://rt.com/files/news/2a/68/40/00/36.jpg

Israel launched Operation Protective Edge on July 8 following an escalation between Israel and Hamas. Around 230 Palestinians and one Israeli have been killed during the operation so far.



Israel’s latest ground operation comes after attempts to broker a cease-fire with Hamas failed to take hold. The last 10 days have seen both sides exchange rocket fire, resulting in the deaths of more than 220 Palestinians and one Israeli, with some attacks coming under intense scrutiny. Recently, four Palestinian children were killed by an Israeli airstrike while they were playing on a beach in Gaza.

Although both Israel and Hamas agreed to observe a brief suspension of hostilities following a request by the United Nations, reports indicated on Wednesday that Israel was considering sending boots on the ground in order to remove rockets and other weapons used by Hamas.

"The IDF's objective as defined by the Israeli government is to establish a reality in which Israeli residents can live in safety and security without continued indiscriminate terror, while striking a significant blow to Hamas's terror infrastructure,” the army said in its statement.

The last time Israel launched an extensive ground offensive in Gaza was back in January 2009, following an armed conflict that began the month prior in December. That offensive, known as Operation Cast Lead, began on January 3 and was tasked with a similar objective: to secure areas from which militants were launching rockets. The entire conflict – which ran from December 27, 2008 to January 18, 2009 –resulted in the deaths of up to 1,417 Palestinians and 13 Israelis.


http://rt.com/files/news/2a/68/40/00/38.jpg
An Israeli missile hits Palestinian buildings in Gaza City on July 17, 2014.(AFP Photo / Thomas Coex )


DETAILS TO FOLLOW

[sigma6]

price of gold has shot up.

¤=[Post Update]=¤

Watching Sky and BBC - already suggesting this is the fault of Russia.
All planes around that area rerouted.

That could be it... a lot of people don't realize these "terror attacks" are nothing more then a strategy for the US to hide the fact that their economy is ratcheting down... Now what if the price of gold went up ONLY in response to the the BRICS announcement, that would be too easy... Someone had said it would go up, and then spike again... Now if this was just because of the bad news, technically it should come back down again, I am guessing it will NOT...

[sigma6]

Here's what Huffington Post is saying so far:


Malaysia Airlines Plane Crash: Flight Shot Down Over Ukraine (LATEST UPDATES)
The Huffington Post | By Eline Gordts
Posted: 07/17/2014 11:40 am EDT Updated: 43 minutes ago

Interfax news agency reports that a Malaysian jet has crashed in eastern Ukraine, near the Russian border. The Malaysian Airlines passenger plane had 295 people on board and was on its way from Amsterdam to Kuala Lumpur.

Anton Gerashenko, an adviser to Ukraine's Interior Minister, wrote on Facebook that the plane was hit by a missile fired from a Buk launcher over the country's east, the Associated Press reports.

Malaysia Airlines confirmed it had lost contact with flight MH17 and that its last position was over Ukrainian airspace.

A Russian aviation industry source told Reuters that the plane did not enter Russian airspace when expected.

Ukraine's east has seen heavy fighting between the country's military and separatists in recent days. Earlier on Thursday, the Ukrainian military claimed Russian jets had shot down a Ukrainian warplane late Wednesday night.

More from the Associated Press:

KIEV, Ukraine (AP) — A Ukrainian official said a passenger plane carrying 295 people was shot down Thursday over a town in the east of the country, and Malaysian Airlines tweeted that it lost contact with one of its flights over Ukrainian airspace.

Anton Gerashenko, an adviser to Ukraine's interior minister, said on his Facebook page the plane was flying at an altitude of 10,000 meters (33,000 feet) when it was hit by a missile fired from a Buk launcher. A similar launcher was seen by Associated Press journalists near the eastern Ukrainian town of Snizhne earlier Thursday. The Buk missile system can fire missiles up to an altitude of 22,000 meters (72,000 feet).

Malaysia Airlines said on its Twitter feed that it "has lost contact of MH17 from Amsterdam. The last known position was over Ukrainian airspace. More details to follow."

The region has seen severe fighting between Ukrainian forces and pro-Russia separatist rebels in recent days.

On Wednesday evening, a Ukrainian fighter jet was shot down by an air-to-air missile from a Russian plane, Ukrainian authorities said Thursday, adding to what Kiev says is mounting evidence that Moscow is directly supporting the separatist insurgents in eastern Ukraine. Security Council spokesman Andrei Lysenko said the pilot of the Sukhoi-25 jet hit by the air-to-air missile was forced to bail after his jet was shot down.

Pro-Russia rebels, meanwhile, claimed responsibility for strikes Wednesday on two Ukrainian Sukhoi-25 jets. The Ukrainian Defense Ministry said the second jet was hit by a portable surface-to-air missile, but added the pilot was unscathed and managed to land his plane safely

Moscow denies Western charges that is supporting the separatists or sowing unrest in its neighbor. The Russian Defense Ministry couldn't be reached for comment Thursday about the Ukrainian jet and Russia's foreign ministry didn't respond to multiple requests for comment.

Earlier this week, Ukraine said a military transport plane was shot down Monday by a missile fired from Russian territory.

The rebels are known to possess portable anti-aircraft rocket launchers, but Ukrainian officials say that kind of weapon would have been unable to reach Monday's plane at the altitude at which it was flying Monday. Aviation experts, however, have questioned whether the stricken transport plane was flying at the altitude Ukrainian officials had claimed.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/07/17/malaysia-airlines-plane-cras_n_5595516.html

So.. Russia was expecting the plane to enter its air space... but the plane entered Ukraine air space instead... which was closed to civilain (does that include international commercial) air traffic on the 8th according to Amzer Zo's post.... (shaking head back and forth...).. ... could this plane have been highjacked?

Yet.. I'm seeing that AirFrance, Russian Airliner Transaero, German airline Lufthansa and Turkish Airlines have announced that they will avoid Ukraine air space now.

RE: Reuters breaking news feed: http://live.reuters.com/Event/World_News

Here is another map of the plane's planned flight path... not passing over Russian air space at all.... huh?

http://images.scribblelive.com/2014/7/17/c4afe13e-e6ed-4818-91c3-f179fe36c86f_500.png


lets say they can control everything from a remote location, they cut off the air supply or do something that knocks out the pilots, based on your map, at the point of "communication shut down" they could fly it in a straight line over the Ukraine.

[Malerogro]

Numerology and Christine Lagarde's prediction have already been mentioned I see..
MH17 = letter 18 of alphabet + letter 8 of alphabet + 1 +7 = 18817 = 34 = 7

[jerry]

heres a spin that has been pointed out already on here. We don't know what we don't know as daboo points out his insight about no plume coming from the plane after being reportedly hit by a missile ...watch the vid see what you think???? 1fytpEF6-EQ

[Roisin]

Passenger planes are now, more than ever, a cheaper alternative for many companies than going the cargo plane route. And for some airlines, they may be more willing than established cargo plane companies to bend the rules wrt any number of things having to do with whatever cargo they agree to transport.

Malaysia Airlines, as we well know, is a company that is lax in its security policies which undoubtedly most likely also extends to whatever cargo they carry too. I don't think it's a coincidence that another major incident involving this airliner occurred again and that maybe those who shot down that plane did so to prevent the cargo on that plane from reaching its final destination; just like what may have had something to do with the disappearance of Flight 370.

But listen to this, there are at least 65 major airlines out there that travel world-wide.... not to mention all of those smaller airlines that are out there too. No way am I going to believe that it was only a coincidence that yet another Malaysia Airliner went down again in a matter of only a few months since the last one.... especially when one considers how many other airliners there are out there that fly all over Europe and Asia.

Another interesting fact. The majority of the passengers on Flight 370 were Chinese or Malaysian. And even though there was a very small handful of people that you could count on a few fingers who were from other countries on that flight, included in that count were 2 Ukrainians and one Russian. I find that very interesting especially now that a second Malaysia Airliner went down and that it went down over... you guessed it, Ukraine. Do we have another coincidence here? Maybe not.

[Malerogro]

http://lifenews.ru/watch-live LIVE NEWS FEED - VERY GRAPHIC!!!!!!! Bodies everywhere.

And a 'rituals' bag that did not burn?
Also there have been found passports:
https://twitter.com/lifenews_ru/status/489821390040993793/photo/1

Strange world!

[indigopete]

Here's some more fodder for you numerology people since you'll soon discover it anyway.

The airframe construction (serial) number: 28411

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?73055-Malaysian-Plane-Crashes-With-295-On-Board-Ukrainian-adviser-claims-the-plane-was-shot-down&p=854507&viewfull=1#post854507

[jerry]

A point Prison Planet looks at as another not to far fetched conspiracy 4MBsmy6prOw

[Agape]

http://lifenews.ru/watch-live LIVE NEWS FEED - VERY GRAPHIC!!!!!!! Bodies everywhere.

They're saying there was either one or several disabled people on the plane with accompanying medical equipment , many children , women among all .
Then also pointing to news in some internet newspaper where it's claimed that missiles of such long range capability are in the rebels possession ( contrary to some of the previous statements ) ..and , it was reportedly calculated that the missile was fired from the Donetsk area .

Disgusting . And very dangerous to everybody around . I still find hard to believe them .

:sick:

[Craig]

Has anybody seen the Jim Stone site? There is a screen shot showing a flight display with MH17 was cancelled, he then surmises that flight MH 370 plane was used and remotely controlled into the area where it was shot down.

Also mentions that it was extremely quick that those responsible were found and what missile was used, and I will guess that it is probably true that photos were quick to emerge, also mentioned was a comparison to flight 93 from 9/11 comparing amounts of wreckage - bloody interesting i will admit

I awoke to this news and my firsts thought were false flag and expect MSM lies, very sad that I felt this way and very sad to the see the MSM juggernaut run with this in their rabid dog fashion.

[indigopete]

Has anybody seen the Jim Stone site? There is a screen shot showing a flight display with MH17 was cancelled

It was cancelled from Flightradar 24's tracking list that's all.

If the flight itself was actually "cancelled" or never existed, presumably the staff at Schiphol, Malaysian Airlines, the catering services, the refuelling services, the ground handling people and the air traffic control people would have something to say about it.

[Pris]

Has anybody seen the Jim Stone site? There is a screen shot showing a flight display with MH17 was cancelled, he then surmises that flight MH 370 plane was used and remotely controlled into the area where it was shot down.

Also mentions that it was extremely quick that those responsible were found and what missile was used, and I will guess that it is probably true that photos were quick to emerge, also mentioned was a comparison to flight 93 from 9/11 comparing amounts of wreckage - bloody interesting i will admit

I awoke to this news and my firsts thought were false flag and expect MSM lies, very sad that I felt this way and very sad to the see the MSM juggernaut run with this in their rabid dog fashion.

Yes... are we seeing MH370 here? Was it substituted in -- to 'replace' flight MH17... a way to destroy the evidence and kill all the people on board?!

Was this some kind of a setup to appear like a missile hit?!

[ghostrider]

Now the missing Malaysian Jet liner has been found , oops it was shot down ... all the terror of the last 14 years has been triggered from the sky/planes ... someone wants to control all of the sky of Earth ... one side shoots it down , blames the other , they really want their WW3 don't they ??? A moving target going 400mph at 33,000 feet , only a super power nation has that capability ... America, Russia , China ... The media was quick on this one , hmmm, they had their special contributors already in studio , hmmmmmm, been covering it all day , Hmmmm , it's always a sham when they do that , while the real story is in the background and away from the curious minds of the public that don't ever buy the official story ... get your clothespin on your nose , I smell a SKUNK , the whole thing stinks ...

[Agape]

Yes... are we seeing MH370 here? Was it substituted in -- to 'replace' flight MH17... a way to destroy the evidence and kill all the people on board?!

Was this some kind of a setup to appear like a missile hit?!

Me too I'm having sort of 'deja vu' but don't think this is correct version . The passengers were different people ..

[Zionbrion]

Hey Jerry you should just post stuff like this in the other thread. Sorry to should on you. :)

[SilentFeathers]

Personally, I don't think this flight MH17 was/is the missing MH370 Boeing 777.....for some reason though Israel keeps popping in to my mind. It's beyond coincidence that 2 Malaysian flights now have been downed in the last four months. Convienent this time though for Israel to have the world focused on Ukraine and this shot down flight while they turn Gaza in to a pile of rubble stained red....

[Roisin]

Yes... are we seeing MH370 here? Was it substituted in -- to 'replace' flight MH17... a way to destroy the evidence and kill all the people on board?!

Was this some kind of a setup to appear like a missile hit?!

Me too I'm having sort of 'deja vu' but don't think this is correct version . The passengers were different people ..

Right, it's like Groundhog Day.

At any rate, that this second Malaysian Airline incident occurred where it did today. Not to mention all of the political ramifications of that especially between the US and Russia, may have been all planned out to provide a diversion from the real reason why that plane was shot down. IOW, it's just a noisy clashing of loud drums to obfuscate the background music which I think threads a strong link between what happened today and what happened on March 8th.

Not that 370 was shot down too but I don't think it's a coincidence that the plane that was shot down today was a Malaysian Airliner too. There's a link there and it should be investigated. I'm not seeing anything in the media about that either. So that in itself is raising a lot of red flags. The talking heads on the news are totally leaving out any connections between both incidents.

[Pris]

Yes... are we seeing MH370 here? Was it substituted in -- to 'replace' flight MH17... a way to destroy the evidence and kill all the people on board?!

Was this some kind of a setup to appear like a missile hit?!

Me too I'm having sort of 'deja vu' but don't think this is correct version . The passengers were different people ..

How has this been confirmed -- and by whom? How do we 'trust' anything we are told?

[bbj3n546pt]

From the FlightAware website:
http://flightaware.com/news/article/Malaysia-Airlines-Flight-17-MAS17MH17-crashes-in-Ukraine/195

“Malaysia Airlines Flight 17 (MAS370/MH370) from Amsterdam (AMS) to Kuala Lumpur (KUL) has crashed over Ukraine. The flight was operated by a Boeing 777-200 with registration/tail number 9M-MRD.

The flight left the gate at Amsterdam at 12:14p CEST and took off from the runway at 12:30p CEST for an estimated landing around 5:50am MYT. Our last position was at 13:20 UTC (9:20 EDT) just West of the Eastern border of Ukraine (48.135, 38.503) and the flight was cruising normally at 33,000 feet. This part of the world has limited coverage for us, so gaps of minutes or even an hour are not uncommon. I attached a flight tracking map with the green line depicting the route flown.” Flight map is at:
http://flightaware.com/live/flight/MAS17/history/20140717/1000Z/EHAM/WMKK

Note: The FlightAware website is one of the better flight tracking sites.

[khissi]

Summary:
Boing 777
Flight MH17 crashed on 17.7.2014 ... 2+1+4=7 ... (17 7 7)
MH17 first flight on 17.7.1997 - 17 years ago.
TWA800 down on 17.7.1996 ... 1+9+9+6=2+5=7... (17 7 7)
Time incident 17:17h local time (uncofirmed) last radar log around 13.20h GMT+4, but could have already be falling a few minutes earlier.

TOO MANY COINCIDENCES.
Clearly, this has been preplaned or (not likely) a giant cosmic coincidence.

[thunder24]

do any of the people in these lists have friends/acquaintences in the intelligence community...?

Board of directors:
http://www.malaysiaairlines.com/us/en/corporate-info/leadership/board-of-directors.html

Senior Management (local):
http://www.malaysiaairlines.com/us/en/corporate-info/leadership/senior-management-local.html

Senior Management (overseas):
http://www.malaysiaairlines.com/us/en/corporate-info/leadership/senior-management-overseas.html

How about connections to high level banking....

[ghostrider]

did the propaganda machine actually show dead bodies ??? The camera man was pretty quick on scene wasn't he ??? He had some good vantage points in a war zone , that's all I'm saying ...

[Agape]

Yes... are we seeing MH370 here? Was it substituted in -- to 'replace' flight MH17... a way to destroy the evidence and kill all the people on board?!

Was this some kind of a setup to appear like a missile hit?!

Me too I'm having sort of 'deja vu' but don't think this is correct version . The passengers were different people ..

How has this been confirmed -- and by whom? How do we 'trust' anything we are told?


We've had long thread here on the MA370 incident that's not been recovered till now, list of passengers together with their photos was published in open and their relatives are still mourning if not searching for them .

You'll see that these people too have relatives , they passed through airport security checkpoint at Schiphol , IDs are recovered from the crash side together with remains of bodies .

It's all very sad . But I think that 'common reasoning' prevails here, I can't speak for all but as far as I'm concerned, truth is often stranger than a fiction - that does not mean that every 'conspiracy' is automatically more plausible truth .
We 're not competing in 'creating conspiracies' . Though open minded thinking is always welcome ..


Hope I've not offended you anyhow .

:angel:

[jerry]

Russian separatists supposedly claim responsibility V5E8kDo2n6g to me this was expected, but from what we know for several sources none of these separatist groups had fire power to shoot down such a high plane. False flag for the sheeple to pile on for justice and nail Russians to the cross for something that globalist backing Ukraine most likely did IMHO

and of course comment from utube have been suspended

[Sunny-side-up]

Just watching this on RT, seeing repeated image feed of the the wreckage. What is striking me is that you keep seeing bodies laying and slumped and on the ground where they fell! also see people just standing around like they are guarding the area but! no one seems to be checking for survivors or signs of life? Still little pieces of fire burning? also a nice neat little pile of passports Hmm? this wreckage all looks staged again to me 0.o

Hmm! news reader just pointed out the coincidences/alignments of the first and last dates of this plane.

[Zionbrion]

Its very strange that the MMS seems to know so much about this flight crash, but still is yet to know or confirm who all the passengers on the plane actually are?!?

[jackovesk]

Hot News Release: NWO Attempted Assassination of Vladimir Putin, But Got the Wrong Plane? It Looks That Way! (Breaking News Videos)

Thursday, July 17, 2014

http://beforeitsnews.com/contributor/upload/238056/images/Vladimir-Putin_4(1).jpg

New information reveals that President Valdimir Putin’s plane may have been the target of an attempted assassination! He is doing many things right and standing strong for what is moral in this world. Furthermore, he is going against the grain of the New World Order, and we all know they don’t like that!

NWO Attempted Assassination of Vladimir Putin–It Certainly Looks That Way!


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sZVnPwr8zj8
RT News reports:

Malaysian Airlines MH17 plane was travelling almost the same route as Russia’s President Vladimir Putin’s jet shortly before the crash that killed 295, Interfax news agency reports citing sources.“I can say that Putin’s plane and the Malaysian Boeing intersected at the same point and the same echelon. That was close to Warsaw on 330-m echelon at the height of 10,100 meters. The presidential jet was there at 16:21 Moscow time and the Malaysian aircraft – 15:44 Moscow time,” a source told the news agency on condition of anonymity.

“The contours of the aircrafts are similar, linear dimensions are also very similar, as for the coloring, at a quite remote distance they are almost identical”, the source added. http://rt.com/news/173672-malaysia-plane-crash-putin/

http://beforeitsnews.com/contributor/upload/238056/images/malaysianplane.jpg

Is it possible that the Malaysian plane that went down was meant to be his? Did they try to assassinate him? Watch the facts stated in the videos below, because it certainly appears that way!

Check out this breaking video news footage and see for yourself!

RT NEWS LINK: http://rt.com/news/173672-malaysia-plane-crash-putin/ (Please check out for full details)


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dH4pJVFixhw&feature=player_embedded
President Putin’s plane might have been the target for Ukrainian missile – sources
http://rt.com/news/173672-malaysia-pl…

Obama on the phone with Putin as a Jetliner is taken down. Was this a planned assassination fail?

BRICS establish $100bn bank and currency pool to cut out Western dominance
http://rt.com/business/173008-brics-b…

Faced With Western Freeze-Out, BRICS Bank Is a Coup for Russia


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xcq81IlZczo&feature=player_embedded
http://beforeitsnews.com/alternative/2014/07/nwo-attempted-assassination-of-vladimir-putin-but-got-the-wrong-plane-it-looks-that-way-video-2994596.html

PS - Nice ((Alibi)) Barry...:nono:


Obama on the phone with Putin as a Jetliner is taken down. Was this a planned assassination fail?


Ukraine + BRICS = NWO Banksters :(

http://png-1.findicons.com/files/icons/977/rrze/48/flag_red.pngFalse-Flag WARNING..!!!

PSS - Now watch this story UNFOLD

Media War (West vs Russia)

Watch what Putin says when he will be ((FORCED to EXPOSE)) the False-Flag Event..!

This is NOT going to play out the way the NWO/BANKSTERS expect...:nono:

[jerry]

6 reasons to question the official story of the Malaysian flight over Ukraine

Brandon Turbeville
Activist Post

With the recent shooting down of a Malaysian Boeing 777 over Ukraine, the Western media is aflame with fingerpointing at Russia and Ukrainian separatists. However, while NATO and its media mouthpieces attempt to rekindle the Cold War and ignite a confrontation with Russia, there exists a number of fundamental questions surrounding the events that have taken place in Eastern Ukraine.

Although not a detailed list, below are six reasons why one should question the official story of the Malaysian flight shot down over Ukraine.

1.) The Ukrainian separatists do not have the military hardware capable of shooting down an airplane at the height at which the Malaysian Boeing 777 was flying.

Ukrainian separatists are equipped with shoulder-fired anti-aircraft missiles which are capable of bringing down an airplane. This much is true. However, the systems believed to be possessed by the separatists are those such as the Igla missile system, which is incapable of hitting planes at the altitudes at which the Malaysian flight was flying. 33,000 feet is simply too high an altitude to be reached with the shoulder-fired missile delivery systems with which the Ukrainian separatists are currently outfitted.

There is no evidence to suggest that the separatists possess the BUK missile systems. At the time of the writing, this writer is not aware of any reports suggesting that separatists commandeered BUK missile launching systems from the Kiev fascist government forces; the only way they could have acquired them unless given the BUK by Russia, which itself is highly unlikely given Russian strategic concerns.





2.) The Kiev forces do have the BUK missile launching system.

While separatist forces are not known to possess missile systems as advanced as the BUK system, the Kiev forces most certainly do.

The BUK system, which requires transportation and mounting on a tracked vehicle or large truck, is not likely to be in the hands of rebels surviving on Russian small arms and other basic forms of military and tactical aid. BUK is much more the type of system that would be property of a national government.

If the Malaysian plane was shot down using the BUK system, it is the Kiev military forces that should immediately be investigated.

3.) Kiev moved its BUK system to the Donetsk area the day before

Reports emerging from Russian news agencies like ITAR-TASS suggest that the Kiev military moved its BUK missile systems into the area surrounding Donetsk on Wednesday, one day before the Malaysian flight was shot down allegedly using that very missile launching system.

The fact that the type of missiles allegedly used to shoot down the Malaysian flight were not only possessed by the Ukrainian military but moved to the very region and area where the shootdown occurred implicates the Kiev forces vastly more than it does the Russians or the Ukrainian separatists.

4.) The questions surrounding why the Malaysian flight was flying over the area to begin with.

As reported by The Atlantic, the Federal Aviation Administration placed an order prohibiting “American pilots, airlines, charter carriers, and everyone else over whom the FAA has direct jurisdiction, from flying over parts of Ukraine” nearly three months ago.

This flight prohibition clearly demonstrates that aviation authorities fully understood that this particular flight path was over a dangerous area. So why was the Malaysian flight flying over this area to begin with?

5.) The timing of the event.

The shooting down of the Malaysian flight conveniently comes only a day after claims by the Ukrainian military that Russia shot down a Ukrainian jet fighter over Ukrainian territory.

It also comes only days after the Western media seized on reports suggesting that the Russian government was considering targeted strikes inside Ukraine in order to protect the Ukrainian people, ethnic Russians, and Russian interests.

Lastly, it comes only hours after the United States issues a statement announcing yet another round of sanctions against Russia.

6.) ANOTHER Malaysian 777.

The fact that the flight shot down over Ukraine is the same type of flight that went missing over the Indian ocean only months before is a highly questionable coincidence. Such a coincidence is almost too big to be believed.

Given the track record of the United States, NATO, and governments in general throughout history, one must at least wonder whether or not the recent shootdown of the Malaysian flight over Ukraine was not simply a false flag designed to drum up national fervor and a new Cold War ultimately leading to a confrontation with Russia.

It is important for the Western public and the rest of the world to become more streetwise regarding incidents such as the Malaysian flight and that they immediately cease to accept an entirely discredited government and media’s explanations as truth.

[cursichella1]

I hear with my own ears, anderson cooper refer to the anniversary of flight 800 which was also "shot down by a missle".
Happened at 3 40 pm on cnn. Has anyone else heard this?

It is true. Are we surprised? http://www.usatoday.com/story/travel/news/2014/07/17/malaysia-flight-17-twa-flight-800-annivesary/12784535/


Malaysia crash shares anniversary with TWA Flight 800 USA TODAY - 2 hours ago Oddly, today's crash of a Malaysia Airlines Flight 17 shares a date with another major airline disaster, the crash of TWA Flight 800 over Long ...

More numerology. TWA flight 800 crashed in 1996 so 1+9+9+6=25 2+5=7. 2014. 2+0+1+4=7.

Then there's the 295 passengers and crew. 2 + 9 + 5 = 16 1 + 6 =7

P.S. almost forgot...U.S.A. Today and others claiming the plane was at 33,000 feet when it was hit...you know, 33 degrees, uh huh

[Roisin]

Antonov-26 transport aircraft that was shot down close to the Russian border...
http://www.kyivpost.com/content/ukraine-abroad/daily-mail-did-moscow-shoot-down-ukraine-military-plane-356007.html

http://www.kyivpost.com/media/images/2014/07/14/p18sqb5q821uec15q76vv6gj153n4/big.jpg

Compare:

http://beforeitsnews.com/contributor/upload/238056/images/malaysianplane.jpg

[jerry]

07.17 20:15 ET BREAKING: 2 Ukrainian Fighter Jets Allegedly Tailing Malaysian Air Flight MH17 Before Intercept



by John Galt
July 17, 2014 20:15 ET

Consider the fog of war please when reading all of the stories tonight as Russia, the Ukraine, the US and NATO all have their own interests in tilting world opinion and the story of this unfortunate incident to their propagandist favor.

However, if this story tonight which just broker via Russia’s ITAR-TASS news service verifies, then the Ukrainian government is guilty of endangering this flight by trying to sneak two fighters into combat by hiding behind the commercial passenger airliner.

2 Ukrainian fighters seen following Malaysian jet minutes before crash

MOSCOW, July 18, /ITAR-TASS/. Two Ukrainian fighters were following the passenger Boeing-777 of Malaysian Airlines several minutes before the crash, Russia’s television Channel One said on Friday, citing a tweet made a Spanish air traffic controller of Kiev’s airport Borispol.

According to the Spanish air traffic controller, two Ukrainian fighters had been seen near the Malaysian jet three minutes before it disappeared from radars.

This information is confirmed by eyewitnesses in the Donetsk region who saw Ukrainian warplanes near the passenger jet. They say they heard sounds of powerful blasts and saw a Ukraine warplane shortly before the crash.

A Boeing-777 of the Malaysian Airlines that was en route from Amsterdam to Kuala Lumpur, disappeared from the radars and crashed on Thursday evening near the settlement of Grabovo in Ukraine’s Donetsk region. All those who were onboard the plane – 280 passengers and 15 crew members – died. According to preliminary data, passengers included citizens of the Netherlands, the United States, Great Britain, France, and Malaysia. According to Russian Emergencies Minister Vladimir Puchkov, there were no Russians among the passengers.

If confirmed, President Poroshenko has some serious explaining to do.

[Tesseract]

It’s quite amazing. The fastest investigation and wrap up in air-disaster history. Within hours (or was it minutes?), the Ukrainian government broadcast its conclusion that eastern rebels shot down the plane. Also within hours, the US government made public its conclusion that the plane had been hit by a missile – will someone get a promotion for that speedy analysis? It sure beats examining the wreckage. Also, within hours of the tragedy, Ukraine intercepts, isolates, analyses, translates and publishes an incriminating phone call. The NSA must be envious of such efficiency . They even had the names and photographs of the interlocutors. There was no need to keep this interception private, as special evidence, evidence that needed to be checked. No, in this investigation the right thing to do was send it out on twitter at the earliest convenience. Within hours, leaders from all over the world have made their conclusions as well – for they too don’t need to wait for an examination of the wreckage, nor for the gathering of witness testimony, nor for the consideration of such minutiae as motive, means and opportunity. Quite amazing indeed.

[KiwiElf]

Malaysian 777 Shot Down Over Ukraine - VT

Thursday, July 17th, 2014
Posted by Gordon Duff

http://www.veteranstoday.com/2014/07/17/777-shot-down-over-ukraine/

Israeli owned Fox News propagandizing for a World War, blames Russian ground based missiles
Getting Past the Lies

by Gordon Duff with Jim W. Dean, VT Editors


Scroll below for Oriental Review’s take on this event:

Unconfirmed: Malaysian plane mistaken for Putin’s private jet which had flown over the area only moments before, leaving Israel and the Kiev junta as prime suspects. This may well have been an assassination attempt on Putin.

We have people on the scene now (1:45PM EST) who have found a bag of passports and medical equipment. We will keep you updated.

With the beginning of the Israeli ground attack on Gaza, might they well claim the plane was:

1: An “Egyptian horse barge,” shot down by mistake

2: Spying on Israeli troop movements

(ref: USS Liberty Israeli cover stories)

From Mike Harris:
Malaysia hosted the war crimes tribunals which found George W Bush and company guilty as well as Israel guilty of war crimes, perhaps this is why they were targeted.

Update: If, as claimed a BUK missile was fired at Putin’s plane. President Putin’s version of Air Force One has extensive ECM modules capable of jamming incoming missiles. Were a missile fired at them and it locked on, ECM, as with America’s “Air Force One,” would jam the missile systems. It is also likely that Russia has a “back door” into all systems they build, such as the one the “Ukies” had deployed outside Donetsk..

We have no confirmation that Putin’s plane had a fighter escort but are assuming it did not. Were a missile to have hit the Malaysian plane, evidence will be easily discernible and missile wreckage should already have been found.

As to whether an air-to-air or ground-to-air missile is found to be the culprit, we should know in hours unless that is suppressed. Either way, John McCain’s childish threats, to only go after those responsible if they happen to be enemies of his “handlers,” was an unwise statement.

_____________________________

Initial stories, traced back to Israeli intelligence, that a Russian jet is responsible for downing the Malaysian Airlines 777 with all aboard, are being disseminated to anyone stupid enough to listen. Showing their hand this early is a monumental blunder.

Here is what we have so far, unconfirmed. An American built F 15 fighter took off from an airfield in Azerbaijan. Back in 2010, Azerbaijan claimed that this and one other airfield was taken over by Armenian militants.

However, these two facilities were home to Israeli aircraft that relocated there as while participating in training exercises with the Turkish Air Force. Turkey allowed Israel to train pilots in strategic bombing in areas selected because they closely resembled potential Israeli targets in Iran.

Israel would send 8 aircraft in for training with the Turks, 6 would return to Israel, two went on to Azerbaijan in preparation for a planned air assault on Iran. To aid this effort, Saudi Arabia put out cover stories stating that it had denied Israeli requests to cross their territory to attack Iran.

These bases are supplied through the Georgian seaport of Poti. Armaments for the “attack that never happened” were offloaded in Poti by the USS Grapple in 2010 and shipped with help of Chechen extremists working with the Jamestown Foundation and Rand Corporation.

Those two organizations were recently found to be working with groups in Turkey in support of ISIS operations in Iraq as reported by Jeffrey Silverman, Veterans Today Bureau Chief working out of Tbilisi.

The reason for the attack on the airliner is not clear and can only be speculated on. This is an extremely serious incident. Pro-Russian separatists in the Ukraine have no air defense systems capable of operating that high, or a need for them with air ground attack being their main concern.

US surveillance which includes AWAC, drones and satellites is capable of detecting the launch of any air defense missile, ground based, capable of reaching the necessary 32,000 foot altitude.
real evidence doesn't "disappear"

Such a weapon would have been spotted in seconds and, as all such systems in the region are under continual surveillance due to the sensitive nature of the conflict and the history of allegations made, making claims we expect to be made outlandish.

There are questions. Why two Malaysian Airlines planes? If someone or something so threatening that this act was seen as ”reasonable and justified,” even by the Israelis, was undertaken, we will never hear the truth. Minimally, biological or chemical agents capable of global holocaust would have to have been onboard.

After the disappearance of Flight 370, author Chris Bollyn published photographs of a plane that looked identical to flight 370 stating that plane was in Israel and was likely to be used by that nation in a terror attack. The story, both fascinating and yet reeking of wild conspiracy theory, dominated alternative media for some time. There is now serious reason to reassess the story, why was it written, what were the sources and was it simply a hoax or tied to something far more serious.

The only other possibility is destabilization of the region and to push for a world war. It is reasonable to suggest that an Israeli plane was involved because we know they have the only clandestine capability within the region.

As to the plot or reason, simply blaming Israel is not supportable, no more than blaming Hamas for murdering the 3 children a few short weeks ago.

Thus, we assume these as high probability:

An aircraft was used, most likely an American built F15 because of range and capability.
Azerbaijan was used because we know of clandestine bases there, which were confirmed by military officers who defected to Iran in 2013.
We know Israel has some role, yet undefined, because they are spreading stories blaming Russia.
As this is a second Malaysian Airlines plane to go down, we look for false stories regarding Israel and Malaysian planes and reassess their meaning.
As is always the case, que bono, who benefits?

We ask readers to watch the world news and those in the region, report directly to our bureau there.

___________________________


Who shot down the Malaysian jet over Ukraine?

Fri, Jul 18, 2014

Phenomenon of Terrorism, Ukraine

By ORIENTAL REVIEW



On July 17, 2014 the madness of three-month-long Ukrainian military conflict in the East has brought the first shocking international consequence. At 3.20PM GMT the Malaysian Airlines Boeing 777-200 jet flight #MH-17 en route from Amsterdam to Kuala-Lumpur disappeared inside the Ukrainian airspace right above the area of intense military combat in Donetsk region and crushed near Grabovo village, around 60 km to the east from Donetsk. All 285 passengers and 15 crew members have reportedly died.

According to data available the airliner “was moving at the altitude of 10,600 meters on the 350th flight level”. This flight level was opened for international transit flights, despite since July 8, 2014 the Ukrainian aviation authorities “did not recommend” international transit flights in the area below 302th level i.e. 9600 meters due to the “anti-terrorist operation” unleashed in the area involving Ukrainian pursuit aviation and air-defense capabilities in action. So formally the Malaysian company complied with the ruling of Ukrainian civil aviation authority although the security risk for the flight was evident.

The area of the catastrophe is indeed the epicentre of the ongoing fierce fighting between regular Ukrainian army units and rebellious armed militias of Novorossia opposing anti-constitutional February coup d’etat in Kiev. An informed source monitoring operational situation in the area has revealed earlier on Wednesday that a battery of Buk antiaircraft missile systems of the Ukrainian Armed Forces was deployed near Donetsk.

At present, another battery of the same missile systems is being loaded in Kharkiv. The aircraft flying at the altitude of more than 10,000 meters might be hit only with weapons like S-300 or Buk. The militias don’t have such weapons, and cannot afford them as it was acknowledged even by the Ukrainian Defense minister Valery Galetey in a statement on another issue two days before the Flight MH-17 tragedy:


“…a “powerful weapon” must have been used to down the plane flying at 6,500 meters, an altitude the shoulder-fired missiles used by the separatists can’t reach.”

The Russian military expert Igor Korotchenko argues that the catastrophe in Donetsk was most likely caused by the incompetence and non-professionalism of the Ukrainian operators of the Buk systems during its testing after the battery was deployed in the new location. He said that the Ukrainian antiaircraft unit did not have any kind of proper training for the last 23 years since the collapse of Soviet Union.

What happened today is hardly the first case of “errant shooting” of the Ukrainian military on civilian air targets. On October 4, 2001 the Russian Siberia Airline flight #1812 Tel-Aviv-Novosibirsk carrying 66 passengers and 12 crew members was erroneously hit by a Ukrainian missile over the Black Sea during military exercises, which was eventually admitted by the Ukrainian side. No one on board survived.

So regardless the MH-17 incident was caused by the criminal negligence and incompetence of the Ukrainian military or deliberate (and reckless) Kiev’s provocation to put blame on Russia, the strong international committment to make Kiev immediately halt its punitive actions in Novorossia until all the circumstances of the tragedy are thoroughly investigated is urgently needed.

[jackovesk]

I hear with my own ears, anderson cooper refer to the anniversary of flight 800 which was also "shot down by a missle".
Happened at 3 40 pm on cnn. Has anyone else heard this?

It is true. Are we surprised? http://www.usatoday.com/story/travel/news/2014/07/17/malaysia-flight-17-twa-flight-800-annivesary/12784535/


Malaysia crash shares anniversary with TWA Flight 800 USA TODAY - 2 hours ago Oddly, today's crash of a Malaysia Airlines Flight 17 shares a date with another major airline disaster, the crash of TWA Flight 800 over Long ...

More numerology. TWA flight 800 crashed in 1996 so 1+9+9+6=25 2+5=7. 2014. 2+0+1+4=7.

Then there's the 295 passengers and crew. 2 + 9 + 5 = 16 1 + 6 =7

Sorry but the only Numerology number I see is (8)

MH17 (1 + 7) = 8

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-8RDyhzijHJg/UQ-nf-5F0oI/AAAAAAAAB_c/vcTuE4VB4Xw/s1600/images+(2).jpg


The 8 is the great Karmic equalizer, a force that just as easily creates as it destroys. When the 8 comes knocking, you can be assured that you will reap what you've sown.

http://www.numerology.com/numerology-numbers/8



NUMBER 8

Number 8 resonates with the influences and vibrations of authority and personal power, self-confidence, executive ability, confidence, inner-strength, professionalism and the professional, management, material freedom, success, good judgement, money, finances, riches, manifesting wealth, abundance and prosperity, provision, investments, discrimination and discernment, giving and receiving, thoroughness, dependability, self-reliance, repose, practicality, consideration, inner-wisdom, self-sufficiency, social status, pragmatism, the ego, aggregation, compassion, dictatorship, executive, delegation, reality, truth and integrity, compassion, dictatorship, multiples, employment, stability, appearance, customs, skills and talents, exchanges, truth, good judgement and problem-solving, organisation and organizing, achieving and achievements, decisiveness, control, constant, ambition, the authoritarian, challenge, efficiency, trustworthiness, insight, planning and the planner, sociability, works independently, learning through experience, true justice, retreat, patience, caution, self-discipline, free-will, insight, spiritual consciousness, expansion, dissolution, dimension of the timeless, good and bad, right and wrong, day and night, ability to see and relate to eternal dimensions, balance between forces, connects spirit and matter, developing confidence to follow a vision, breaks down barriers to transformation, reality, courage, a desire for peace and a love of humanity and world transformation.

Number 8 relates to the concept of karma – the Universal Spiritual Law of Cause and Effect.

Relates to:
The North Node of the Moon (individual fate)
Strength Tarot Card
Sunday
Colour: Silver

Character:
The Boss, powerful drive to succeed, decision-making, intensely active, seizes opportunities, takes control, wants security, success.

http://numerology-thenumbersandtheirmeanings.blogspot.com.au/2011/05/number-8.html

PSS - In simpler terms the (No.8)

Resurrection, new Beginings - In the Bible represents a new beginning, meaning a New Order or Creation, and man's true 'Born Again' event when he is resurrected from the dead into eternal life.

http://www.biblestudy.org/bibleref/meaning-of-numbers-in-bible/8.html

PSSS - The Date:

7-17-2014

7 + 17 + 2 + 1 + 4 = 31 (3 + 1) = 4

What's 8 ÷ 4 = 2

This is only the 1st False Flag, Bigger one yet to come...:noidea:

[Roisin]

There is no evidence to suggest that the separatists possess the BUK missile systems.

I've been reading otherwise and quite frankly, not only can I not trust the mainstream news on this story but I also do not trust any alternative news sources on it either because they are too Pro-Putin hence why the discriminating reader is still trying to separate the wheat from the chaff on that end too. Both sides are too slanted toward their own operating paradigm so which ever way you cut it, the real truth on what happened today is extremely FUZZY.

[cursichella1]

http://www.biblestudy.org/bibleref/meaning-of-numbers-in-bible/8.html[/url]


I don't see where anyone misadded or added at all MH 17? Or are you just discounting the 7s and pointing out the 8?

[KiwiElf]

...and 8 is also the number associated with wealth, money or finance

[Roisin]

It's also associated with DEATH.

[8Adamas8]

Russian separatists supposedly claim responsibility V5E8kDo2n6g to me this was expected, but from what we know for several sources none of these separatist groups had fire power to shoot down such a high plane. False flag for the sheeple to pile on for justice and nail Russians to the cross for something that globalist backing Ukraine most likely did IMHO

and of course comment from utube have been suspended

DAHBOO7 already on this one....

28MrASx-RiM

[jackovesk]

...and 8 is the number associated with wealth, money or finance

Because 8 turned on its side '∞' represents 'Infinity' its core meaning relates to "New Beginnings & Endings" and "Karma" the Universal Spiritual Law of Cause and Effect.

When defining the Meaning of any specific 'Number' you must take into consideration the 'Event' from which you are trying to decipher and this one is Geo-Political not personal...:noidea:

[Tesseract]

If Ukraine can, with such facility, intercept and record conversations between eastern rebels and the Russian military, why haven't they made such recordings in the recent past and made them public? Since, after all, they have been desperately trying to convince the world that all the troubles in the east are Russian-orchestrated. They have been trying to prove it so hard, and failing, so why didn't they just release a few of these kinds of calls? It's entirely inconsistent.

[jerry]

Correct in assuming the truth probably never will be confirmed, but like 911 the damming evidence years from now will unofficially give those closure who care to weigh all the facts. The reasoning main stream state run media.

¤=[Post Update]=¤

The BUK missile systems are mounted on large tank like vehicles how would separatist conceal those in such an environment

[jackovesk]

http://www.biblestudy.org/bibleref/meaning-of-numbers-in-bible/8.html[/url]

I don't see where anyone misadded or added at all MH 17? Or are you just discounting the 7s and pointing out the 8?

From a wholistic standpoint, I simply narrowed it down to the shortest possible meme not to overcomplicate things...:noidea:

I'm no expert on Numerology but trying to get ((7-7-7)) out of the Date: 7-17-2014 doesn't make any sense to me...:nono:

Correct me if I'm wrong but...

7 + 17 + 2 + 0 + 1 + 4 = 31 (3 + 1) = 4

Not...

(7) + 1(7) + 2 + 0 + 1 + 4 = (7) so its (7) (7) (7) :confused:

PS - Theorising these things starts to become cumbersome, I'll just wait for Vlad to tell us the Truth...:noidea:

That's if he's not in on it himself...:scared:

[Sean]

Apologies if this was posted elsewhere in this thread, but Gordon Duff's take on this:
http://www.veteranstoday.com/2014/07/17/777-shot-down-over-ukraine/

[jackovesk]

I hear with my own ears, anderson cooper refer to the anniversary of flight 800 which was also "shot down by a missle".
Happened at 3 40 pm on cnn. Has anyone else heard this?

It is true. Are we surprised? http://www.usatoday.com/story/travel/news/2014/07/17/malaysia-flight-17-twa-flight-800-annivesary/12784535/


Malaysia crash shares anniversary with TWA Flight 800 USA TODAY - 2 hours ago Oddly, today's crash of a Malaysia Airlines Flight 17 shares a date with another major airline disaster, the crash of TWA Flight 800 over Long ...

More numerology. TWA flight 800 crashed in 1996 so 1+9+9+6=25 2+5=7. 2014. 2+0+1+4=7.

Then there's the 295 passengers and crew. 2 + 9 + 5 = 16 1 + 6 =7

P.S. almost forgot...U.S.A. Today and others claiming the plane was at 33,000 feet when it was hit...you know, 33 degrees, uh huh


Then there's the 295 passengers and crew. 2 + 9 + 5 = 16 1 + 6 =7

Update...

They forgot to include the tragic death of 3 babies (Updated: Official Tally) 298

2 + 9 + 8 = 19 (1+9) = 10 (1+0) = 1

[jackovesk]

http://imglogo.podbean.com/image-logo/295128/idiot_box_new-lg.jpg

Now we can look forward to all the IDIOT Politicians & MSM Commentators SCRAMBLE around to PUSH the Cabals AGENDA Big-Time..!

There will be Theories here there and EVERYWHERE but ((ALL)) pointing in the SAME direction...(((WAR)))

But little do they know the (SPANNER in the WORKS) that will finally (EXPOSE) these Professional CRIMINAL LIARS if not on this False Flag the NEXT even BIGGER one to come..!!!

[Shane]

This is just not the type of mistake people with these capabilities make.

[gripreaper]

My initial reaction was: Wow, major infighting at the top of the major cabal mafia, or a signal to the cabal opposition alliance. Then Malaysia again? Why Malaysia? Why targeting Malaysian airlines? Why in conjunction with turning Gaza into a blood red river? Why are stock markets having their worst day in months?

Who's not following script? Whose gone rogue? Malaysia, Russia, China? Or, am I not seeing the forest for the trees. I think I am still just looking at trees. The forest is not clear to me yet. Too many questions.

https://scontent-b-sea.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpf1/v/t1.0-9/1506569_705520859505062_6879709040245211332_n.png?oh=1a915f6ec5559f2f57b5100211f378b3&oe=5433EFD5

[Zionbrion]

KXQ_8_KUT3w
28MrASx-RiM

[cursichella1]

http://www.biblestudy.org/bibleref/meaning-of-numbers-in-bible/8.html[/url]

I don't see where anyone misadded or added at all MH 17? Or are you just discounting the 7s and pointing out the 8?

From a wholistic standpoint, I simply narrowed it down to the shortest possible meme not to overcomplicate things...:noidea:

I'm no expert on Numerology but trying to get ((7-7-7)) out of the Date: 7-17-2014 doesn't make any sense to me...:nono:

Correct me if I'm wrong but...

7 + 17 + 2 + 0 + 1 + 4 = 31 (3 + 1) = 4

Not...

(7) + 1(7) + 2 + 0 + 1 + 4 = (7) so its (7) (7) (7) :confused:

PS - Theorising these things starts to become cumbersome, I'll just wait for Vlad to tell us the Truth...:noidea:

That's if he's not in on it himself...:scared:

I don't know either...lol, only the really obvious ones (as in there's too many sevens to be just a coincidence).

Here's another:

World Story

http://www.straitstimes.com/news/world/europe/story/malaysia-airlines-mh17-crash-seven-passengers-including-three-dutch-national


Malaysia Airlines MH17 crash: Seven passengers, including three Dutch nationals, were bound for Singapore

(Was that not the weirdest headline yet?)

Btw re: the 3 babies and the passenger count...what is of importance to the psychopaths that pull off "events" like this is the fact that the number is out there, plastered all over the news, to have an effect on people's subconscious, regardless the reality of the count.

[cursichella1]

7 times militaries have shot down civilian planes

http://www.vox.com/2014/7/17/5912699/7-times-militaries-have-shot-down-civilian-planes/in/5677250

No doubt there are more blatant 7's out there, but I'm not going to look for more. I think by now we all get the picture...

[cursichella1]

I'm going to put this info on the table, may be it does have something to do with Malaysia, may be not.

http://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/opinion/2011/11/20111128105712109215.html


In Kuala Lumpur, after two years of investigation by the Kuala Lumpur War Crimes Commission (KLWCC), a tribunal (the Kuala Lumpur War Crimes Tribunal, or KLWCT) consisting of five judges with judicial and academic backgrounds reached a unanimous verdict that found George W Bush and Tony Blair guilty of crimes against peace, crimes against humanity, and genocide as a result of their roles in the Gulf War.



I'm guessing so...since that's where the flight was headed? This Flight seems to have many connections (or "coincidences"). Gee, kind of reminiscent of 911 and even JFK/Dealey Plaza...

[bearcow]

well it seems the story they will go with is that Russian separatists shot down the plane with weaponry that was Russian or could only be obtained by them through Russia.

USA will then try to strong arm the EU into stiffer economic sanctions

Mcain will trumpet the case for increased US aid and greater nato presence in eastern europe

Merkel is still the wild card in all this, what did she and putin talk about in brazil last week?

[bearcow]

http://globalpublicsquare.blogs.cnn.com/2014/07/17/zakaria-malaysia-airlines-crash-a-major-international-incident/?hpt=hp_bn2

bilderberger fareed zakaria laying down the narrative

[jackovesk]

well it seems the story they will go with is that Russian separatists shot down the plane with weaponry that was Russian or could only be obtained by them through Russia.

USA will then try to strong arm the EU into stiffer economic sanctions

Mcain will trumpet the case for increased US aid and greater nato presence in eastern europe

Merkel is still the wild card in all this, what did she and putin talk about in brazil last week?

Hitlary just backed all this up...:yes4:

http://dancingczars.files.wordpress.com/2013/09/hillary-105352070365_xlarge.jpg?w=280&h=279

Hillary Clinton Blames Russia for Downed Plane in Ukraine

Work of "Russian insurgents"

July 17, 2014


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nkTRJgDkNFg&feature=player_embedded
She told Charlie Rose there appears “to be some growing awareness” that “Russian insurgents” were behind the downing.

“There is a great deal of concern that not only was a civilian plane shot down but what this means about the continuing conflict in eastern Ukraine and the role that Russia is playing,” Clinton said.

The former Secretary of State said if Russia is held to blame for the incident sanctions against Russia should be tightened and Europe should stop importing Russian energy.

“Europeans have to be the ones to take the lead on this,” Clinton said. “It was a flight from Amsterdam to Kuala Lumpur over European territory. There should be outrage in European capitals.”

http://www.infowars.com/hillary-clinton-blames-russia-for-downed-plane-in-ukraine/

[Tesla_WTC_Solution]

Now that the authorities think this flight was shot down,
please do not rule out the possibility of a functional field testing of advanced boat and aircraft-mounted laser weapons systems, such as the US Navy LAWS Laser (altho this one has a purported range much shorter than what would allegedly have been required in order to shoot down this Malaysia airlines flight...)


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laser_Weapon_System

Laser Weapon System: History


In 2010, Kratos Defense & Security Solutions was awarded an 11-million-dollar contract to develop LaWS in support of the Naval Surface Warfare Center (NSWC) for the U.S. Navy’s Directed Energy and Electric Weapon Systems (DE&EWS) program.[4] The May 2012 NSWC test used a CIWS control system to enable the beam director to track the UAV target.[5]

The LaWS will be installed on the USS Ponce in summer 2014 for a 12-month trial deployment. The Navy spent about $40 million over the past six years on research, development, and testing of the laser weapon. It will be directed to targets by the Phalanx CIWS radar.

If tests go well, the Navy could deploy a laser weapon operationally between 2017 and 2021 with an effective range of 1 mi (1.6 km; 0.87 nmi). The exact level of power the LaWS will use is unknown but estimated between 15-50 kW for engaging small aircraft and high-speed boats. Directed-energy weapons are being pursued for economic reasons, as they can be fired for as little as one dollar per shot, while conventional gun rounds and missiles can cost thousands of dollars each.

The Navy has a history of testing energy weapons, including megawatt chemical lasers in the 1980s. Their chemicals were found to be too hazardous for shipboard use, so they turned to less powerful fiber solid-state lasers. Other types can include slab solid state and free electron lasers.[6] The LaWS benefitted from commercial laser developments, with the system basically being six welding lasers "strapped together" that, although don't become a single beam, all converge on the target at the same time. It generates 33 kW in testing, with follow-on deployable weapons generating 60-100 kW mounted on a Littoral Combat Ship or Arleigh Burke-class destroyer to destroy fast-attack boats, drones, manned aircraft, and anti-ship cruise missiles out to a few miles.[7]

thanks to modern attitudes life gets cheaper rather than more precious as technology 'matures'...

tesla would be sad i hope, to see tech used this way...
and conventional tech easily blamed a la 9/11 for stuff likely accomplished via advanced means...

@@

[Tesla_WTC_Solution]

please don't forget about: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laser_Weapon_System


History

In 2010, Kratos Defense & Security Solutions was awarded an 11-million-dollar contract to develop LaWS in support of the Naval Surface Warfare Center (NSWC) for the U.S. Navy’s Directed Energy and Electric Weapon Systems (DE&EWS) program.[4] The May 2012 NSWC test used a CIWS control system to enable the beam director to track the UAV target.[5]

The LaWS will be installed on the USS Ponce in summer 2014 for a 12-month trial deployment. The Navy spent about $40 million over the past six years on research, development, and testing of the laser weapon. It will be directed to targets by the Phalanx CIWS radar. If tests go well, the Navy could deploy a laser weapon operationally between 2017 and 2021 with an effective range of 1 mi (1.6 km; 0.87 nmi).

The exact level of power the LaWS will use is unknown but estimated between 15-50 kW for engaging small aircraft and high-speed boats. Directed-energy weapons are being pursued for economic reasons, as they can be fired for as little as one dollar per shot, while conventional gun rounds and missiles can cost thousands of dollars each. The Navy has a history of testing energy weapons, including megawatt chemical lasers in the 1980s.

Their chemicals were found to be too hazardous for shipboard use, so they turned to less powerful fiber solid-state lasers. Other types can include slab solid state and free electron lasers.[6] The LaWS benefitted from commercial laser developments, with the system basically being six welding lasers "strapped together" that, although don't become a single beam, all converge on the target at the same time.

It generates 33 kW in testing, with follow-on deployable weapons generating 60-100 kW mounted on a Littoral Combat Ship or Arleigh Burke-class destroyer to destroy fast-attack boats, drones, manned aircraft, and anti-ship cruise missiles out to a few miles.[7]


...unknown power levels and range...
unknown interaction with aircraft and drones...
unknown capabilities...


p.s. are there large scale examples of helical laser drilling??

http://www.industrial-lasers.com/articles/2013/04/laser-helical-drilling-.html

[linksplatinum]

MSM is plastering this disinfo all over the damn place, it is thoroughly disgusting... I'm sure that Putin is seriously pissed at the cabalist pukes at this point... Now I feel that this seems to be a payback since the BRICS bank went online the other day.

[jackovesk]

Airlines, including Qantas, quit flying over Ukraine airspace months ago

July 18, 2014

“We stopped flying over Ukraine because of safety concerns,” Asiana spokeswoman Lee Hyo-Min said.

Korean Air re-routed its flights 250 kilometres south of Ukraine “due to the political unrest in the region”, an official for the carrier told AFP.

A Qantas spokeswoman said its London to Dubai service used to fly over Ukraine, but the route was changed “several months ago”.

Asked why Malaysia Airlines had not taken similar precautions, Malaysian Prime Minister Najib Razak said international air authorities had deemed the flight path secure.

http://www.news.com.au/travel/travel-updates/airlines-including-qantas-quit-flying-over-ukraine-airspace-months-ago/story-fnizu68q-1226993758257

PS - Question:


Asked why Malaysia Airlines had not taken similar precautions, Malaysian Prime Minister Najib Razak said international air authorities had deemed the flight path secure.

What was MH17 doing in Ukrainian Airspace in the 1st place...:confused:

Ask this man, he may know why?

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/a7/Najib_Razak_2008-08-21.jpg/330px-Najib_Razak_2008-08-21.jpg
6th Prime Minister of Malaysia Incumbent Assumed office 3 April 2009

While your at it, ask him where MH370 is..???

[araucaria]

Personally, I don't think this flight MH17 was/is the missing MH370 Boeing 777.....for some reason though Israel keeps popping in to my mind. It's beyond coincidence that 2 Malaysian flights now have been downed in the last four months. Convienent this time though for Israel to have the world focused on Ukraine and this shot down flight while they turn Gaza in to a pile of rubble stained red....
Israel keeps popping on your mind possibly because at the time of the MH370, we were puzzling over the role of a a second 777 in Malaysia Air livery in storage in Israel. Maybe we couldn't fit the two planes together in a scenario because the actual scenario being played out involved three planes and two 'crashes'.

This might mean that the Amsterdam flight suffered an MH370-type disappearance, while the third plane was taken out of storage and somehow destroyed at ground level. I noted above the anomaly in the video loop of a ticket marked MH0851. Maybe this would explain it.

We still have a problem though: while one 777 might be passed off as another, that is not possible with the victims, at least some of whom are likely to be identified as passengers from Amsterdam.

[Cidersomerset]

I just had a quick look before I go to work, had not seen this thread
last night, David has posted some articles this morning some may already
have been posted.....Got to go see you later.......


------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Malaysian Airlines MH17 passenger plane carrying 295 people including between
five and ten Britons ‘shot down with ground-to-air missile’ at 33,000ft over Ukraine
near to Russian border

new Friday 18th July 2014 at 04:19 By david-icke


http://www.davidicke.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/false-flag-warning.jpg


‘A Malaysian Airlines passenger plane has been shot down on the Russian-Ukraine
border, killing all 295 people on board including a reported five to ten Britons
and 23 Americans.

The Boeing 777 aircraft was hit by a sophisticated surface-to-air missile over territory
near Donetsk held by pro-Russian rebels who the Ukrainian government says are backed
by the Kremlin.

The Ukrainian authorities laid the blame for the attack on the rebels by denying any
responsibility for the missile launch.

TV pictures from the scene showed a pall of smoke billowing into the sky near Donetsk,
apparently from the stricken flight MH17.

Witnesses say body parts are scattered over a distance of 15km, suggesting the plane
broke up in mid-air. Whitehall sources told MailOnline that between five and ten Britons
were feared dead. Interfax news agency reported that 23 U.S. citizens were on board.’

Read more: Malaysian Airlines MH17 passenger plane carrying 295 people including
between five and ten Britons 'shot down with ground-to-air missile' at 33,000ft over
Ukraine near to Russian border

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2696161/BREAKING-NEWS-Malaysian-passenger-plane-carrying-295-people-crashes-Ukraine-near-Russian-border.html

====================================================

Strobe Talbott Blames Russia For Shooting Down Commercial Airliner

http://www.davidicke.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/171-0201090657-Neocon.gif

‘Brookings Institution President Strobe Talbott has sensationally blamed Russia for
shooting down a Malaysia Airlines plane which was hit by a missile over Ukraine,
killing all 295 people on board.

Donetsk separatist boss Strelkov, Kremlin’s proxy in war, says he ordered shootdown
thinking plane was Ukrainian

— Strobe Talbott (@strobetalbott) July 17, 2014

In a tweet posted shortly after news broke of the airliner’s demise, Talbott alleged that,
“Donetsk separatist boss Strelkov, Kremlin’s proxy in war, says he ordered shootdown
thinking plane was Ukrainian.”’

Read more …

http://www.prisonplanet.com/strobe-talbott-blames-russia-for-shooting-down-commercial-airliner.html

=======================================================


Malaysian Flight Shot Down Over Ukraine – Kiev Government Implicated


http://www.davidicke.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/800px-9M317_surface-to-air_missile_of_Buk-M2E.jpg

‘In what is now the second curious incident involving a Malaysian airlines flight, a Malaysian
airlines Boeing 777 has crashed over Ukraine. The flight was traveling from Amsterdam to
Kuala Lumpur with 295 people on board. The flight crashed in East Ukraine close to the Russian border.

The flight was allegedly downed by a missile.

According to USA Today “Anton Gerashenko, the adviser, says on his Facebook page the plane
was flying at an altitude of 33,000 feet when it was hit Thursday by a missile fired from a BUK
launcher, the Associated Press reports.”

AP Journalists are claiming to have seen a similar style missile in the eastern Ukrainian town
of Snizhne on Thursday.’

Read more …

http://www.activistpost.com/2014/07/malaysian-flight-shot-down-over-ukraine.html#!bg4gXn

========================================================



President Putin's plane might have been the target for Ukrainian missile – sources

http://www.davidicke.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/18.si_.jpg


‘Malaysian Airlines MH17 plane was travelling almost the same route as Russia’s President
Vladimir Putin’s jet shortly before the crash that killed 295, Interfax news agency reports
citing sources.

“I can say that Putin’s plane and the Malaysian Boeing intersected at the same point and
the same echelon. That was close to Warsaw on 330-m echelon at the height of 10,100
meters. The presidential jet was there at 16:21 Moscow time and the Malaysian aircraft
– 15:44 Moscow time,” a source told the news agency on condition of anonymity.

“The contours of the aircrafts are similar, linear dimensions are also very similar, as for
the coloring, at a quite remote distance they are almost identical”, the source added.’

Read more …

http://rt.com/news/173672-malaysia-plane-crash-putin/
======================================================


Redux October 2001: Ukraine admits missile may have downed Russian plane

http://www.davidicke.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/the-crash-followed-great-depression-currency-wars-111981.jpg

‘A Ukrainian official today admitted that his country’s military may have mistakenly shot
down a Russian commercial airliner over the Black sea last week, killing all 78 people on board.

The announcement by Yevhen Marchuk, the head of the Ukrainian security council and a
member of the commission investigating the tragedy, marks the first time that the country
has conceded it may be responsible.

“The reason for the crash could be an unintentional hit by an S-200 missile during the
Ukrainian air defence exercises,” Mr Marchuk told a press conference today, adding that
investigators would make their final conclusions after further, complex research.

The Russian chief of the investigative commission, Vladimir Rushailo, said today that the
aircraft had been hit by an anti-aircraft missile, the Interfax news agency reported.’

Read more …

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2001/oct/12/russia.israel


==================================================


US caught planning terror attacks in Ukraine

http://www.davidicke.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/354594_Ukraine-terror-map.jpg

‘In a series of hacked emails received from “Anonymous Ukraine” it is clear that Pentagon
officials working in concert with extremist elements in the Ukraine have carried out and
are planning more attacks in Ukraine.

What is also clear is that these attacks are to be blamed on Russia including blowing up
planes at an airport. Other attacks may well include mass civilian casualties.

The long series of emails include several that are frighteningly incriminating. This is first
of the “worst,” three “smoking gun” false flag planning documents:’

Read more …

http://www.presstv.com/detail/2014/03/14/354594/us-planning-terror-attacks-in-ukraine/

===============================================================


Remember in March 2014 – Are the Israelis Planning Another 9-11 Using the Missing Boeing 777?

Connect the Dots – It would be interesting to know if it was still in the hanger in Tel Aviv, wouldn't it?

http://www.davidicke.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/N105GT_in_TA-587x440.jpg

‘Why would Israel have a plane identical to the missing Malaysia Airlines plane in storage in Tel Aviv?
The plane in this photo is Boeing 777 2H6(ER) – 28416/155, an identical twin of the missing plane,
which has been in Israel since November 2013. What are the Israelis doing with this plane in a
hanger in Tel Aviv? Could it be part of a false-flag terror plot in the making?’

Read more …

http://www.bollyn.com/are-the-israelis-planning-another-9-11-using-the-missing-777/

===========================================================


Why was MH17 flying over a warzone?

t4OfykcvJvg

Published on 17 Jul 2014


Malaysian Airlines flight MH17 was downed Thursday afternoon
in the volatile Donetsk region of eastern Ukraine. After crashing,
many international observers immediately began questioning why
flights over such a violent area were permitted in the first place.
RT's Lindsay France learns more about the circumstances surround
the flight and its downing by speaking with aviation expert
Captain Rick Dake.

[yuhui]

more than 100 AIDS activists, researchers and health workers were on the plane:
http://m.theaustralian.com.au/news/nation/delegates-to-melbourne-aids-summit-on-doomed-flight-mh17/story-e6frg6nf-1226993197572?nk=786afedbe43f6c62a86a50d2bbcea4be

Is there a possibility that these people might be targeted for some reason?

[giovonni]

Here's Alex ...

Was Malaysian Airliner Shoot Down A False Flag ?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X8TSK1NAzR0

[Star Tsar]

more than 100 AIDS activists, researchers and health workers were on the plane:
http://m.theaustralian.com.au/news/nation/delegates-to-melbourne-aids-summit-on-doomed-flight-mh17/story-e6frg6nf-1226993197572?nk=786afedbe43f6c62a86a50d2bbcea4be

Is there a possibility that these people might be targeted for some reason?


This is the conference...

http://www.aids2014.org/programme.aspx

The AIDS 2014 Conference Programme seeks to promote scientific excellence and inquiry, encourage individual and collective action, foster multi-sectoral dialogue and constructive debate, and reinforce accountability amongst all stakeholders. Sessions will focus on the latest issues in HIV science, policy and practice and will also seek to share key research findings, lessons learned, best practices, as well as identify gaps in knowledge. The conference will feature abstract-driven sessions, a daily plenary session, a variety of symposia sessions, professional development workshops, and independently organized satellite meetings. In addition, the conference programme will include a number of programme activities, such as the Global Village and the Youth Programme, which are an integral aspect of the International AIDS Conference.

The AIDS 2014 Joint Programme Committee is an international committee of experts and professionals with exceptional experience in their respective fields. These individuals will work together to construct a balanced and representative conference programme.

This webpage will be updated regularly and reflect advances in the conference programme.

Former President Bill Clinton is listed as one of the featured speakers for the conference.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/07/17/who-malaysia-plane-crash-victims-aids-_n_5597547.html

Post Update

Latest HIV Cure Data Expected at AIDS 2014, More Hep C News

New information about a so-called functional cure for HIV will be released at the 20th International AIDS Conference, being held from July 20 to 25. In addition, scientists and policy makers are anticipating more breaking hepatitis C news at the largest global HIV get-together, where results from TURQUOISE-1 and PHOTO-2 will be presented.

At a briefing for reporters held in advance of the AIDS 2014 meeting, chair Françoise Barré-Sinoussi, MD, said the studies emphasize the importance of early treatment.

Canadian researchers will report on a series of infants started on triple antiretroviral therapy in the first 48 hours of life. Another study to be presented, of South African children who did not meet the World Health Organization criteria for initiating treatment but who received treatment because of high viral loads, has demonstrated that low levels of immune system activation, as reflected by cell counts, are a key determinant in the slow progression of HIV in these children.

"Activation and the HIV reservoirs are really the 2 critical determinants of HIV pathogenicity," Dr. Barré-Sinoussi told reporters. "This is another study showing that activation should be considered as a future strategy aiming for a cure, or at least a sustainable remission, in HIV patients without any treatment."

This has long been considered the critical first step toward generating a cure.
Steven Deeks, MD, from the University of California, San Francisco, who also spoke at the briefing, said there will be a fascinating series of studies that approach the potential for a sustainable remission through other means.

It is believed that reservoirs of latently infected CD4 cells are the source of HIV re-emergence after the discontinuation of therapy. Standard antiretrovirals do not prevent the establishment of these latent reservoirs, and HIV is inaccessible for expression in part because of histone deacetylases. Purging these latent reservoirs using histone deacetylase inhibitors could open the possibility for sustained remission, Dr. Deeks explained.

Danish investigators will report findings indicating that the inhibitor romidepsin reverses HIV latency in patients on longstanding treatment. "This has long been considered the critical first step toward generating a cure that would treat people on a global level, not just bone marrow transplant patients," Dr. Deeks said. "This presentation will generate interest and excitement."

The same class of agents has also been shown to markedly reduce chronic inflammation in HIV-infected patients, he added.

Hepatitis C Coinfections

Direct-acting antivirals appear to have produced sustained virologic responses in most patients with hepatitis C, noted Stefano Vella, MD, from the Istituto Superiore di Sanita in Rome. Results from 2 clinical trials — TURQUOISE-1 and PHOTO-2 — will address whether patients coinfected with HIV respond as well.

http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/828152

http://www.aidsmap.com/AbbVie-3-drug-combination-cures-92-to-96-of-hepatitis-C-patients-with-cirrhosis/page/2846407/

[panopticon]

Convienent this time though for Israel to have the world focused on Ukraine and this shot down flight while they turn Gaza in to a pile of rubble stained red....

Excellent obervation.


more than 100 AIDS activists, researchers and health workers were on the plane:
http://m.theaustralian.com.au/news/nation/delegates-to-melbourne-aids-summit-on-doomed-flight-mh17/story-e6frg6nf-1226993197572?nk=786afedbe43f6c62a86a50d2bbcea4be

Is there a possibility that these people might be targeted for some reason?

Thank you for this link.

-- Pan

[cursichella1]

well it seems the story they will go with is that Russian separatists shot down the plane with weaponry that was Russian or could only be obtained by them through Russia.

USA will then try to strong arm the EU into stiffer economic sanctions

Mcain will trumpet the case for increased US aid and greater nato presence in eastern europe

Merkel is still the wild card in all this, what did she and putin talk about in brazil last week?

Hitlary just backed all this up...:yes4:

http://dancingczars.files.wordpress.com/2013/09/hillary-105352070365_xlarge.jpg?w=280&h=279

Hillary Clinton Blames Russia for Downed Plane in Ukraine

Work of "Russian insurgents"

July 17, 2014


She told Charlie Rose there appears “to be some growing awareness” that “Russian insurgents” were behind the downing.

“There is a great deal of concern that not only was a civilian plane shot down but what this means about the continuing conflict in eastern Ukraine and the role that Russia is playing,” Clinton said.

The former Secretary of State said if Russia is held to blame for the incident sanctions against Russia should be tightened and Europe should stop importing Russian energy.

“Europeans have to be the ones to take the lead on this,” Clinton said. “It was a flight from Amsterdam to Kuala Lumpur over European territory. There should be outrage in European capitals.”

http://www.infowars.com/hillary-clinton-blames-russia-for-downed-plane-in-ukraine/

Can't remember where I heard this, only that it was someone who'd know and was a trusted source, and was at the time relating to the recent close call with Syria...anyway, they said that whenever the gov't. mentions "insurgents", an alarm should go off in your head telling you that they are behind it or complicit and are spinning a massive lie for the public's benefit. So here we go again!

I'll try to find the source and will add it here.

[EYES WIDE OPEN]

Please do not post graphic pictures without warning. its upsetting and nor called for. I didnt need to see that.

[cursichella1]

There was a separate thread on this recently...worth a second look considering all of the 7's connected to the Malaysia Airlines flight that crashed in Ukraine. Many see Lagarde's speech (or numerology lesson) as having been a "heads up" for the cabal about an upcoming false flag. Maybe it was for both Malaysia flights. In any event, I find her little chat to be very bizarre & creepy.


Here’s a video from Christine Lagarde of the alleged-Illuminati-affiliated International Monetary Fund (IMF) walking through some numerology, 7′s, and 2014. The point is that even professionals at this level talk about this type of stuff; perhaps even projected events this way. Magic involves taking the personal will and shaping the universe around it. Using numbers and symbols helps the practitioner accomplish this. Big ups to MMS for giving me the link on this one:


“7″ references:
1:22 – “Now I’m going to test your numerology skills by asking you to think about the magic seven”
1:34 – “Most of you will know that seven is quite a number
2:24 – “2014, you drop the zero, fourteen, two times, seven”
4:08 – “It will mark the 70th anniversary, 70th anniversary, drop the zero, seven, of the Bretton Woods Conference that actually gave birth to the IMF” (7 + 0 = 7)
4:22 – “And it will be the 25th anniversary of the fall of the berlin wall, 25th..” (2 + 5 = 7)
4:38 – “It will also mark the 7th anniversary of the financial market jietters”
5:08 – “After those seven miserable years, weak and fragile”
5:14 – “We have seven strong years”
5:43 – “Now I don’t know if the G7 will have anything to do with it” (G is also the 7th letter of the alphabet)

“2014″ references:
1:18 – “The global economy and what we should expect for 2014″
2:19 – “So if we think about 2014″
2:24 – “2014, you drop the zero, fourteen, two times, seven”
3:54 – “So 2014 will be a milestone and hopefully a magic year in ma(n)y respects”
5:05 – “So my hope and my wish for 2014″


Occult Message in Speech by Christine Lagarde of IMF (An admitted numerological seven fest...)

QYmViPTndxw



http://illuminatiwatcher.com/malaysia-airlines-flight-mh17-conspiracy-theories/

Original Avalon thread: http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?72690-The-Economic-Crash-is-Near-Christine-Lagarde--IMF--using-Occult-Messages-to-Pass-on-Information-and-Dates-to-the-Elite&p=849673&viewfull=1#post849673

p.s. And maybe if I wasn't reading the thread backward I would have realized "Sigma6" and "Christine" had already touched on this!

[EYES WIDE OPEN]

http://www.veteranstoday.com/2014/07/17/777-shot-down-over-ukraine/

Text below: (click link for maps and so no)

Breaking: From Global Travel Industry News:
ETN received information from an air traffic controller in Kiev on Malaysia Airlines flight MH17.
This Kiev air traffic controller is a citizen of Spain and was working in the Ukraine. He was taken off duty as a civil air-traffic controller along with other foreigners immediately after a Malaysia Airlines passenger aircraft was shot down over the Eastern Ukraine killing 295 passengers and crew on board.
The air traffic controller suggested in a private evaluation and basing it on military sources in Kiev, that the Ukrainian military was behind this shoot down. Radar records were immediately confiscated after it became clear a passenger jet was shot down.
Military air traffic controllers in internal communication acknowledged the military was involved, and some military chatter said they did not know where the order to shoot down the plane originated from.
Obviously it happened after a series of errors, since the very same plane was escorted by two Ukrainian fighter jets until 3 minutes before it disappeared from radar.
Radar screen shots also show an unexplained change of course of the Malaysian Boeing. The change of course took the aircraft directly over the Eastern Ukraine conflict region.
Some tweets received suggest this may have been a secret military uprising against the current Ukrainian president under the direction of formerly-jailed Prime Minister Timoshenko.
According to other rumors, the black box for this crashed Malaysian Airlines flight was taken by Donetsk separatists. A spokesperson for the rebel group said this black box would be sent to the Interstate Aviation Committee headquartered in Moscow.
—
Putin controversy continues:
Malaysian Airlines MH17 plane was travelling almost the same route as Russia’s President Vladimir Putin’s jet shortly before the crash that killed 298, Interfax news agency reports citing sources.
LIVE UPDATES:Malaysia Airlines MH17 plane crash in Ukraine
“I can say that Putin’s plane and the Malaysian Boeing intersected at the same point and the same echelon. That was close to Warsaw on 330-m echelon at the height of 10,100 meters. The presidential jet was there at 16:21 Moscow time and the Malaysian aircraft – 15:44 Moscow time,” a source told the news agency on condition of anonymity.
“The contours of the aircrafts are similar, linear dimensions are also very similar, as for the coloring, at a quite remote distance they are almost identical”, the source added.

At the same time, there have been reports contradicting Intefax’s report that was the first and the only media source to publish the news, saying that Presidential plane was not flying over Ukraine at the same time.
As a source told Gazeta.ru online news portal, Putin’s plane does take off from Vnukovo-3 [the terminal that accepts business jets], but the president does not fly over the conflict-gripped neighboring country.
“Putin has only one jet – Board One, he does not fly other planes. This plane always takes off from Vnukovo-3, but the presidential plane have not been flying over Ukraine for a while,” the source at Vnukovo-3 terminal said.
President Putin was on his way from Brazil, where he attended the BRICS summit, to Moscow.
‘Tragedy would’t have taken place if there was peace in Ukraine’
Ukraine should bear responsibility for Malaysian airliner tragedy, said the head of the Russian state at a meeting on economic issues, which he proposed to start with a minute of silence in memory of the victims of the disaster.
—
Israel:
Finger pointed at Israel: Australian Prime Minister Tony Abbott, former Jesuit and confirmed “nutter” let his Israeli handlers put his “nutters” in the ringer this time. “They” chose the weakest minded western leader possible to peddle an outlandish story, one that leads back to Tel Aviv, increasingly recognized as the puppet masters behind the Kiev junta.
Australian PM: ‘Russian-Backed Rebels’ Appear To Be Behind Malaysia Plane Crash
Australian Prime Minister Tony Abbott said on Friday that “Russian-backed rebels” appeared to be behind the shooting down of a Malaysia Airlines passenger jetliner over eastern Ukraine
Unconfirmed: Malaysian plane mistaken for Putin’s private jet which had flown over the area only moments before, leaving Israel and the Kiev junta as prime suspects. This may well have been an assassination attempt on Putin.
We have people on the scene now (1:45PM EST) who have found a bag of passports and medical equipment. We will keep you updated.
With the beginning of the Israeli ground attack on Gaza, might they well claim the plane was:
1: An “Egyptian horse barge,” shot down by mistake
2: Spying on Israeli troop movements
(ref: USS Liberty Israeli cover stories)
From Mike Harris:
Malaysia hosted the war crimes tribunals which found George W Bush and company guilty as well as Israel guilty of war crimes, perhaps this is why they were targeted.
Update: If, as claimed a BUK missile was fired at Putin’s plane. President Putin’s version of Air Force One has extensive ECM modules capable of jamming incoming missiles. Were a missile fired at them and it locked on, ECM, as with America’s “Air Force One,” would jam the missile systems. It is also likely that Russia has a “back door” into all systems they build, such as the one the “Ukies” had deployed outside Donetsk..
We have no confirmation that Putin’s plane had a fighter escort but are assuming it did not. Were a missile to have hit the Malaysian plane, evidence will be easily discernible and missile wreckage should already have been found.
As to whether an air-to-air or ground-to-air missile is found to be the culprit, we should know in hours unless that is suppressed. Either way, John McCain’s childish threats, to only go after those responsible if they happen to be enemies of his “handlers,” was an unwise statement.
_____________________________
Initial stories, traced back to Israeli intelligence, that a Russian jet is responsible for downing the Malaysian Airlines 777 with all aboard, are being disseminated to anyone stupid enough to listen. Showing their hand this early is a monumental blunder.

Real “non 9/11″ plane wreckage
Here is what we have so far, unconfirmed. An American built F 15 fighter took off from an airfield in Azerbaijan. Back in 2010, Azerbaijan claimed that this and one other airfield was taken over by Armenian militants.
However, these two facilities were home to Israeli aircraft that relocated there as while participating in training exercises with the Turkish Air Force. Turkey allowed Israel to train pilots in strategic bombing in areas selected because they closely resembled potential Israeli targets in Iran.

Real “non 9/11″ air crash evidence
Israel would send 8 aircraft in for training with the Turks, 6 would return to Israel, two went on to Azerbaijan in preparation for a planned air assault on Iran. To aid this effort, Saudi Arabia put out cover stories stating that it had denied Israeli requests to cross their territory to attack Iran.
These bases are supplied through the Georgian seaport of Poti. Armaments for the “attack that never happened” were offloaded in Poti by the USS Grapple in 2010 and shipped with help of Chechen extremists working with the Jamestown Foundation and Rand Corporation.

What wasn’t on the Pentagon lawn…
Those two organizations were recently found to be working with groups in Turkey in support of ISIS operations in Iraq as reported by Jeffrey Silverman, Veterans Today Bureau Chief working out of Tbilisi.
The reason for the attack on the airliner is not clear and can only be speculated on. This is an extremely serious incident. Pro-Russian separatists in the Ukraine have no air defense systems capable of operating that high, or a need for them with air ground attack being their main concern.
US surveillance which includes AWAC, drones and satellites is capable of detecting the launch of any air defense missile, ground based, capable of reaching the necessary 32,000 foot altitude.

real evidence doesn’t “disappear”
Such a weapon would have been spotted in seconds and, as all such systems in the region are under continual surveillance due to the sensitive nature of the conflict and the history of allegations made, making claims we expect to be made outlandish.
There are questions. Why two Malaysian Airlines planes? If someone or something so threatening that this act was seen as ”reasonable and justified,” even by the Israelis, was undertaken, we will never hear the truth. Minimally, biological or chemical agents capable of global holocaust would have to have been onboard.
After the disappearance of Flight 370, author Chris Bollyn published photographs of a plane that looked identical to flight 370 stating that plane was in Israel and was likely to be used by that nation in a terror attack. The story, both fascinating and yet reeking of wild conspiracy theory, dominated alternative media for some time. There is now serious reason to reassess the story, why was it written, what were the sources and was it simply a hoax or tied to something far more serious.
The only other possibility is destabilization of the region and to push for a world war. It is reasonable to suggest that an Israeli plane was involved because we know they have the only clandestine capability within the region.
As to the plot or reason, simply blaming Israel is not supportable, no more than blaming Hamas for murdering the 3 children a few short weeks ago.
Thus, we assume these as high probability:
An aircraft was used, most likely an American built F15 because of range and capability.
Azerbaijan was used because we know of clandestine bases there, which were confirmed by military officers who defected to Iran in 2013.
We know Israel has some role, yet undefined, because they are spreading stories blaming Russia.
As this is a second Malaysian Airlines plane to go down, we look for false stories regarding Israel and Malaysian planes and reassess their meaning.
As is always the case, que bono, who benefits?
We ask readers to watch the world news and those in the region, report directly to our bureau there.
___________________________

Who shot down the Malaysian jet over Ukraine?
Fri, Jul 18, 2014
Phenomenon of Terrorism, Ukraine
By ORIENTAL REVIEW

On July 17, 2014 the madness of three-month-long Ukrainian military conflict in the East has brought the first shocking international consequence. At 3.20PM GMT the Malaysian Airlines Boeing 777-200 jet flight #MH-17 en route from Amsterdam to Kuala-Lumpur disappeared inside the Ukrainian airspace right above the area of intense military combat in Donetsk region and crushed near Grabovo village, around 60 km to the east from Donetsk. All 285 passengers and 15 crew members have reportedly died.
According to data available the airliner “was moving at the altitude of 10,600 meters on the 350th flight level”. This flight level was opened for international transit flights, despite since July 8, 2014 the Ukrainian aviation authorities “did not recommend” international transit flights in the area below 302th level i.e. 9600 meters due to the “anti-terrorist operation” unleashed in the area involving Ukrainian pursuit aviation and air-defense capabilities in action. So formally the Malaysian company complied with the ruling of Ukrainian civil aviation authority although the security risk for the flight was evident.
The area of the catastrophe is indeed the epicentre of the ongoing fierce fighting between regular Ukrainian army units and rebellious armed militias of Novorossia opposing anti-constitutional February coup d’etat in Kiev. An informed source monitoring operational situation in the area has revealed earlier on Wednesday that a battery of Buk antiaircraft missile systems of the Ukrainian Armed Forces was deployed near Donetsk.
At present, another battery of the same missile systems is being loaded in Kharkiv. The aircraft flying at the altitude of more than 10,000 meters might be hit only with weapons like S-300 or Buk. The militias don’t have such weapons, and cannot afford them as it was acknowledged even by the Ukrainian Defense minister Valery Galetey in a statement on another issue two days before the Flight MH-17 tragedy:
“…a “powerful weapon” must have been used to down the plane flying at 6,500 meters, an altitude the shoulder-fired missiles used by the separatists can’t reach.”
The Russian military expert Igor Korotchenko argues that the catastrophe in Donetsk was most likely caused by the incompetence and non-professionalism of the Ukrainian operators of the Buk systems during its testing after the battery was deployed in the new location. He said that the Ukrainian antiaircraft unit did not have any kind of proper training for the last 23 years since the collapse of Soviet Union.
What happened today is hardly the first case of “errant shooting” of the Ukrainian military on civilian air targets. On October 4, 2001 the Russian Siberia Airline flight #1812 Tel-Aviv-Novosibirsk carrying 66 passengers and 12 crew members was erroneously hit by a Ukrainian missile over the Black Sea during military exercises, which was eventually admitted by the Ukrainian side. No one on board survived.
So regardless the MH-17 incident was caused by the criminal negligence and incompetence of the Ukrainian military or deliberate (and reckless) Kiev’s provocation to put blame on Russia, the strong international committment to make Kiev immediately halt its punitive actions in Novorossia until all the circumstances of the tragedy are thoroughly investigated is urgently needed.

Location map of the point (marked in red) of the air strike against Flight MH-17 according to the flight tracking data.

[EYES WIDE OPEN]

For your consideration....

BUSTED! Ukraine Caught Trying to 'Frame Russia' for Shooting Down Malaysia Flight MH17!


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=28MrASx-RiM#t=143


http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-07-17/ukraine-releases-youtube-clip-proving-rebels-shot-down-malaysian-flight-mh-17

[Hervé]

[...]

******************************************************************

Why the hell was it flying within a restricted airspace?

Another 777 turned drone?

Indeed, why off the usual flight corridor?

Was Flight MH-17 Diverted Over Restricted Airspace? (http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-07-17/was-flight-mh-17-diverted-over-restricted-airspace)

http://www.zerohedge.com/sites/default/files/pictures/picture-5.jpg (http://www.zerohedge.com/users/tyler-durden) Submitted by Tyler Durden (http://www.zerohedge.com/users/tyler-durden) on 07/17/2014 20:55 -0400


While there are various questions that have already emerged from what was supposed to be Ukraine's "slam dunk" proof (http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-07-17/ukraine-releases-youtube-clip-proving-rebels-shot-down-malaysian-flight-mh-17)confirming Russian rebel involvement in today's MH-17 tragedy, perhaps one just as gaping question emerges when one looks at what is clearly an outlier flight path in today's final, and tragic, departure of the Malaysian Airlines Boeing 777.

Perhaps the best visualization of what the issue is, comes from Vagelis Karmiros (https://twitter.com/VagelisKarmiros/status/489926167731142656/photo/1) who has collated all the recent MH-17 flight paths as tracked by Flightaware (http://flightaware.com/live/flight/MAS17/history/20140717/1000Z/EHAM/WMKK)and shows that while all ten most recent paths pass safely well south of the Donetsk region, and cross the zone above the Sea of Azov, it was only today's tragic flight that passed straight overhead Donetsk.


http://www.zerohedge.com/sites/default/files/images/user5/imageroot/2014/07/MH%2017%20flight%20paths_0.png (http://www.zerohedge.com/sites/default/files/images/user5/imageroot/2014/07/MH%2017%20flight%20paths.png)


Why is the diversion from the traditional flight path and passage over the highlighted zone a concern? Because as the following map from the WSJ shows this is precisely where the restricted airspace is.


http://www.zerohedge.com/sites/default/files/images/user5/imageroot/2014/07/restricted%20air%20space.png (http://www.zerohedge.com/sites/default/files/images/user5/imageroot/2014/07/restricted%20air%20space.png)


So perhaps before coming to "certain" conclusion about the involvement of this rebel or that, the key questions one should ask before casting blame, is why did the pilot divert from his usual flight plan, why did he fly above restricted airspace, and just what, if any instructions, did Kiev air control give the pilot in the minutes before the tragic explosion?

[EYES WIDE OPEN]

Breaking: From Global Travel Industry News:
ETN received information from an air traffic controller in Kiev on Malaysia Airlines flight MH17.
This Kiev air traffic controller is a citizen of Spain and was working in the Ukraine. He was taken off duty as a civil air-traffic controller along with other foreigners immediately after a Malaysia Airlines passenger aircraft was shot down over the Eastern Ukraine killing 295 passengers and crew on board.
The air traffic controller suggested in a private evaluation and basing it on military sources in Kiev, that the Ukrainian military was behind this shoot down. Radar records were immediately confiscated after it became clear a passenger jet was shot down.
Military air traffic controllers in internal communication acknowledged the military was involved, and some military chatter said they did not know where the order to shoot down the plane originated from.
Obviously it happened after a series of errors, since the very same plane was escorted by two Ukrainian fighter jets until 3 minutes before it disappeared from radar.
Radar screen shots also show an unexplained change of course of the Malaysian Boeing. The change of course took the aircraft directly over the Eastern Ukraine conflict region.
Some tweets received suggest this may have been a secret military uprising against the current Ukrainian president under the direction of formerly-jailed Prime Minister Timoshenko.
According to other rumors, the black box for this crashed Malaysian Airlines flight was taken by Donetsk separatists. A spokesperson for the rebel group said this black box would be sent to the Interstate Aviation Committee headquartered in Moscow.

[thepainterdoug]

BTW The huffington post showed pictures of bodies in their photo coverage of this crash. I don't recall ever seeing bodies included in any other crash site coverage. has anyone ever seen this before? I'm asking myself why the change here??? for what effect do we need to see this.? i asked my girlfriend in germany to look and her huffington post had the images blurred.

[MorningSong]

Interesting article here from a Human Rights org in Ukraine:


Russian LifeNews inadvertently told the truth about downed Malaysian airline
18.07.14 | Halya Coynash

Since Russian pro-Kremlin media are already suggesting that Ukraine brought down the Malaysian airliner, the following is a reminder of the first, damning, reports which came from the Kremlin-backed militants and Russian media, including the LifeNews TV channel. The latter’s report came shortly before it became clear that the Malaysian Airlines Boeing 777 had come down near the border between Ukraine and Russia, killing all 298 passengers and crew.

LifeNews reported that “Insurgents have reported a downed AN-26 [military transport plane] in the east of Ukraine. They say that at around 17.30 according to local time the plane was flying over the city of Torez in the Donetsk oblast.”

The video shows what is almost certainly the Malaysian plane burning.

Shortly before this, a post on the social media website VKontakte, purportedly from the militant leader, Strelkov [Igor Girkin] stated that “

17.07.2014 17.50

“In the vicinity of Torez we just downed an AN-26 plane, it’s lying somewhere behind the Progress Mine.

We warned them – don’t fly “in our sky”

The same image as in the LifeNews broadcast is given with the words that no residential area was touched or civilians hurt.

This post has now been removed, and Strelkov’s people are claiming it’s a fake.

Alexander Borodai, ‘prime minister’ of the self-proclaimed Donetsk People’s Republic [DPR] has claimed that the plane was downed by the Ukrainian military and this appears to be the version which the Russian media are now assiduously pushing.

Even if the post really was a fake, the fact remains that LifeNews and a number of other pro-Kremlin media which have consistently demonstrated close coordination with the militants showed video footage of the crash, citing militants as saying that they had felled a military plane.

On Thursday evening, Valentin Nalyvaichenko, head of the SBU [Ukraine’s Security Service] made public two intercepted calls which the SBU say show that the plane was downed by pro-Russian Cossack militants. The first conversation is seemingly between Igor Bezler, a military commander of the self-proclaimed Donetsk People’s Republic and Vasyl Geranin, the second between two militants. The first reports that “we have just downed a plane”, and that they’re going to the scene to find the pilots and take photos. The second is after one of the militants has discovered that they shot down a civilian plane.

The SBU has put out a recording with subtitles.

“We don’t have the equipment”

Borodai’s claim that the militants did not have the capacity to fell a plane at 10 kilometres is false. The DNP have brought down a number of military transport planes by now with surface to air missiles, and the militants themselves stated on June 29 that they would “protect the sky over Donetsk with Buk missile systems” A pro-Kremlin political analyst stated back on July 13 that the militants were in possession of Buk surface to air missiles and were ready to use them. The Buk missiles in the picture were photographed near Snizhne in the Donetsk oblast. They are highly sophisticated equipment which you won't find in a hardware shop, and which require very serious training to operate.

A US official has confirmed that the plane was shot down. “One radar system saw a surface-to-air missile system turn on and track an aircraft right before the plane went down Thursday, according to the official. A second system saw a heat signature at the time the airliner was hit, the official said. The United States is analyzing the trajectory of the missile to try to learn where the attack came from.”

Video footage was reported early on Thursday which appeared to prove that GRAD rockets were being fired from Russian territory. There has also been talk this evening that the Malaysian airline could have been shot down from within Russia. This does not necessarily clash with the reports from the militants themselves who could have simply wanted to ‘boast’ of another such ‘victory’, or could conceivably have tried to provide a cover for use of missiles from Russia whatever the target.

The Russian media are now going flat out to try to prove that the Ukrainian military shot down the plane, while incredibly leaving intact previous reports where the militants are boasting of their new ‘hit’.

German journalist Boris Reitschuster reports that Russia Today has deleted the incriminating report, while the German version of Voice of Russia have not. He may be right that English is being prioritized, with even the LifeNews Russian original item still on the site. The video footage in the latter (which the screenshot above is from) was, however, removed around midnight.

An English report on RIA Novosti suggests that the Ukrainian military were to blame. Quoting an unnamed “expert source”, it writes that “A Ukrainian army battalion of Buk air defence systems was deployed near the city of Donetsk a day before the crash of a Malaysian passenger plane on Thursday, making the downing of the aircraft by one of the missiles highly probable”. The militants are not flying aircraft and there would therefore have been no reason for the Ukrainian military to be using a surface to air missile system. It is the militants who have already shot down a number of Ukrainian military transport planes.

An especially manipulative item from the same RIA Novosti agency in Russian is entitled “Merkel demands an independent investigation of the plane crash in Donetsk”. The text repeats three times that German Chancellor Angela Merkel has said that “Ukraine can expect a new tragic spiral of conflict if the presumed causes of the air disaster are confirmed”. It then goes on to suggest that this could be a “repetition of the 2001 tragedy” (when the Ukrainian military did bring down a plane from Novosibirsk to Tel Aviv). The report ends by stating that the militants do not have the appropriate weapons, with the assertion by Alexander Borodai subjected to no scrutiny or question.

It has been confirmed that the plane was shot down. It is known who had used surface to air missiles to bring down Ukrainian military aircraft and who boasted of having done the same on early Thursday evening. Removal of incriminating videos and manipulative media coverage cannot erase that.

298 people were killed on Thursday evening, among them eighty children. Those who play with human life for dubious geopolitical gain must be stopped.

http://khpg.org.ua/en/index.php?id=1405634995

[MorningSong]

An official communicazione from Malaysian Airlines gives the latest update on the flight and passenger list:


Friday, July 18, 01:30 PM GMT +0800 Media Statement 3 : MH17 Incident

Media Statement 3 : MH17 Incident

The B777-200 aircraft bearing registration no. 9M-MRD that operated MH17 on 17 July, 2014 had a clean maintenance record. The aircraft’s last maintenance check was on 11 July 2014. The next check was due on 27 Aug 2014. The maintenance was conducted at Malaysia Airlines’ hangar at KLIA. The aircraft had a clean bill of health.

The aircraft was manufactured in July 1997, and so had 17 years in service.

The aircraft had recorded 75322 hours with a total of 11434 cycles.

All communication system on the aircraft were functioning normally.

The B777-200 uses the Rolls-Royce Trent-800 engine and has a 282 seat capacity.

-end-
Friday, July 18, 07:30 AM GMT +0800 Media Statement 2 : MH17 Incident

Media Statement 2 : MH17 Incident

With immediate effect, all European flights operated by Malaysia Airlines will be taking alternative routes avoiding the usual route.

Malaysia Airlines flight MH17, which was on a scheduled flight from Amsterdam to Kuala Lumpur went down in eastern Ukraine. Malaysia Airlines confirms that the aircraft did not make a distress call.

The usual flight route was earlier declared safe by the International Civil Aviation Organisation. International Air Transportation Association has stated that the airspace the aircraft was traversing was not subject to restrictions.

As opposed to the earlier statement, the flight was carrying a total number of 298 people – comprising 283 passengers including three infants of various nationalities and 15 crew of Malaysian nationality. Some of the nationalities of the passengers are yet to be determined.

List of number of passengers and crew according to nationality are as follows:-

Nationality


Total

Netherlands


154

Malaysia


43 (including 15 crew & 2 infants)

Australia


27

Indonesia


12 (including 1 infant)

United Kingdom


9

Germany


4

Belgium


4

Philippines


3

Canada


1

Unverified


41

Total


298



Malaysia Airlines is in the process of notifying the next-of-kin of the passengers and crew.

Our focus now is to work with the emergency responders and authorities and mobilize its full support to provide all possible care to the next-of-kin. Malaysia Airlines is deploying its “Go Team” to Amsterdam with a group of caregivers and volunteers to assist the family members of the passengers.

Our thoughts and prayers are with all affected passengers and crew and their family members.

The airline will provide regular updates on the situation.

Families of passengers and crew may contact +603 7884 1234 (Malaysia) or +31703487770(Netherlands).

For media queries, kindly contact +603 8777 5698/ +603 8787 1276.

Please also log on to www.malaysiaairlines.com for updates.

-end-


This is on their "page 2" of this report:


Friday, July 18, 04:15 AM GMT +0800 Statement by Prime Minister Najib Razak: Malaysian Airlines flight 17

Yesterday evening, I was informed of the terrible and deeply shocking news that a Malaysia Airlines jet went down in eastern Ukraine.

Malaysia Airlines has confirmed that the jet was Malaysia Airlines flight 17, which was on a scheduled flight from Amsterdam to Kuala Lumpur.

The flight departed Amsterdam at 12.15pm, local time. It was scheduled to arrive in Kuala Lumpur at 6.10 am, local, Malaysian time.

The aircraft was a Boeing 777-200.

The aircraft’s flight route was declared safe by the International Civil Aviation Organisation.

And International Air Transportation Association has stated that the airspace the aircraft was traversing was not subject to restrictions.

Malaysia Airlines has confirmed that the aircraft did not make a distress call.

The flight was carrying a total number of 295 people – comprising 280 passengers and 15 crew members.

Malaysia Airlines is in the process of notifying the next-of-kin of the passengers and crew. All possible care will be provided to the next-of-kin.

The Government of Malaysia is dispatching a special flight to Kiev, carrying a Special Malaysia Disaster Assistance and Rescue Team, as well as a medical team.

According to information provided by Kiev Air Traffic Control, the location of the plane’s emergency locator beacon is 48 degrees 7 minutes and 23 seconds North; and 38 degrees 31 minutes and 33 seconds East.


The Ukrainian authorities believe that the plane was shot down.

At this early stage, however, Malaysia is unable to verify the cause of this tragedy.

But we must – and we will – find out precisely what happened to this flight.

No stone can be left unturned.

If it transpires that the plane was indeed shot down, we insist that the perpetrators must swiftly be brought to justice.

Emergency operations centres have been established. In the last few hours, Malaysian officials have been in constant contact with their counterparts in Ukraine and elsewhere.

And I will be speaking to a number of world leaders over the coming hours.

I have had several conversations with the Prime Minister of the Netherlands.

I have also spoken to the President of Ukraine. He has pledged that there will be a full, thorough and independent investigation, and Malaysian officials will be invited to take part.

The Ukrainian president also confirmed that his government will negotiate with rebels in the east of the country, in order to establish a humanitarian corridor to the crash site.

Just now, I received a call from President Obama.

He and I both agreed that the investigation must not be hindered in anyway.

An international team must have full access to the crash site.

And no one should interfere with the area, or move any debris, including the black box.



This is a tragic day, in what has already been a tragic year, for Malaysia.

As we work to understand what happened, our thoughts and prayers are with the family and friends of those onboard the flight.

I cannot imagine what they must be going through at this painful time.

The flight’s passengers and crew came from many different countries.

But today, regardless of nationality, we are all united in grief.

-end-
Friday, July 18, 12:30 AM GMT +0800 Media Statement 1: MH17 Incident

Media Statement 1: MH17 Incident

Malaysia Airlines confirms it received notification from Ukrainian ATC that it had lost contact with flight MH17 at 1415 (GMT) at 30km from Tamak waypoint, approximately 50km from the Russia-Ukraine border.

Flight MH17 operated on a Boeing 777 departed Amsterdam at 12.15pm (Amsterdam local time) and was estimated to arrive at Kuala Lumpur International Airport at 6.10 am (Malaysia local time) the next day.

The flight was carrying 280 passengers and 15 crew onboard.

More details to follow.

-end-


http://www.malaysiaairlines.com/my/en/site/mh17.html

[EYES WIDE OPEN]

I have yet to see proof of the crash. I have seen 3 videos of the explosion but nobody actually caught the jet crashing. (right next to a road I might add). Just saying is all. Im sure it did indeed crash. Just wanted to put this out there.

[Roisin]

Ukraine Separatists Have Shot Down Multiple Aircraft Over The Past Month

A Boeing 777 Malaysian airlines plane has reportedly been shot down along the Russian-Ukrainian border, according to an official from Ukraine's Ministry of the Interior.
The border is currently a war zone with sustained fighting between the Ukrainian government and pro-Russian separatist rebels. And within the past month, the separatists have brought down a number of Ukrainian military aircraft.

The cause of the crash isn't conclusively known at the moment. Pro-Russian separatists may have nothing to do with it. But they have been successful in destroying aircraft in recent months of the conflict.

Armed with Man-Portable Air Defense Systems (MANPADS), the separatists have been taking down Ukrainian military aircraft since the beginning of June. On June 13, separatists shot down a Ukrainian transport plane that had been carrying 40 paratroopers and nine crew members.

At least 10 other Ukrainian aircraft — all of them significantly lower-flying than a Boeing 777 — have been shot down since the rebels started using MANPADS according to a count kept by military aviation expert David Cenciotti, including five Mi-24 Hinds, two Mi-8 helicopters, one An-2, one An-30, and the Ukrainian transport plane.

Pro-Russian rebels claimed responsibility for shooting down two additional Ukrainian Su-25 fighters on Wednesday. The Ukrainian Defense Ministry reported that one of the jets was hit by a portable surface-to-air missile.

According to an adviser to the Ukraine Interior Minister, the Malaysia plane was shot down by a Buk ground-to-air missile system. These systems require additional training to use and are launched from trucks. The AP saw a launch system resembling Buk missiles in the pro-Russian held Ukrainian town of Snizhne early Thursday.

The pro-Moscow separatists have denied responsibility for shooting down the Malaysian flight, according to The Interpreter.



Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/ukraine-separatists-have-shot-down-multiple-aircraft-over-the-past-month-2014-7#ixzz37ooZeFUF

[EYES WIDE OPEN]

NOW THIS IS INTERESTING!


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PUltrf8n_vA

[EYES WIDE OPEN]

Jim Stone:

http://www.jimstonefreelance.com/

Shoot down now confirmed and therefore top posted

Gaza carnage has disappeared from the news over this shoot down, is this a secondary motive?
Judging from what is happening now, I am going to un officially call it - Flight 370 has been disposed of, Russia will be blackballed, and ISRAEL DID IT ALL, because under the waves generated by this shoot down story The ground invasion of Gaza has started and there is not a PEEP in the MSM about it. how convenient!

Heads up: Flightradar24.com which is the defining site for flight history says MH17 was canceled and never departed, with no departure time listed. Hmmm . . . . . Good cover for flight 370? Not enough substance to make a call on that one, but this is something to make note of at least. The site is down now, possibly overwhelmed? That is OK, I got a photograph of this.

And keep in mind that it is all in a blender now, with the necessary lies being told to bury this connection. Someone already has a Wiki up with the entire story including departure time, but no legitimate travel site site I came across in two hours searching actually listed it.

MORE IN THE LINK....

[EYES WIDE OPEN]

Identical flight 370 in Tel Aviv?

http://www.jimstonefreelance.com/identicalflight370.html

[EYES WIDE OPEN]

Now check this:

http://www.bollyn.com/#article_14753

[Roisin]

Russian/Putin apologists here really need the following reminder. It's wrong--wrong when Russia is behind the act, and wrong if the US does it… But what's a million times more wrong is that a jumbo civilian commercial jet went down resulting in the loss of hundreds of lives!

Your research should reflect that major concern .... even at the expense of having to forfeit your own prevailing Pro-Putin sentiments should credible and substantiated evidence prove that the fault lies on the Russian side of this tragic incident.

[EYES WIDE OPEN]

I see no proof of who shot it down. Right now, I am reading everything I can before I reach a conclusion.


Rosin, show me where I say I am pro-putin please. You have jumped to that conclusion yourself. Please do not put words into my mouth. Not sure how you came up with that to be honest. Care to explain? Cheers. :)

[SilentFeathers]

Joseph Farrell's opinions....
uHBcz14Zmeg

[EYES WIDE OPEN]

Did Ukraine Fabricate Evidence to Frame Russia For MH17 Shoot Down?

http://www.prisonplanet.com/video-did-ukraine-fabricate-evidence-to-frame-russia-for-mh17-shoot-down.html

[EYES WIDE OPEN]

The most interesting thing was the tweets from the air traffic control. I saw those before they were taken down.

[Christine]

I am listening and looking as deeply as perception will allow, so I am not sure where the shout about Putin/Russian apologists is coming from. We are dealing with something that was "created" to take us into chaos. Overlaid, and overplayed scenarios.

Again the "same ol' same ol'" - Problem, Reaction, Solution - always with the divide and conquer axiom in their mind.

What I have been endeavoring to do myself on all fronts, is to accept that all versions are reality are "someones". In other words from a particular point of view anything can be made to appear truthful or real. So to a Russian patriot who is immersed in his own particular paradigm things are going to look different than from my world view or yours. I think we can easily grok this idea. So instead of making wrong include that view in yours.. all of them are valid and all of them provide clues for a discerning mind.

I have been deep viewing this scene.. nothing is as it appears, again! Actually my very first read was that Putin was a target, though my logical mind couldn't calculate that. Second strong read was that the plane was remote hijacked and was meant to be a decoy or cover.. Third read was that there were not as many people on the plane as the media is saying. Fourth read was that a person will come forward. And as Jacko said, THIS ISN'T GOING TO PLAY OUT AS PLANNED. (I am getting confirmation from other friends that are "seeing' the scene.)

This includes the obvious diversion of attention from the Gaza stip-ping.

Roisin, I feel that for a high empath as yourself the scene of dead people and suffering will likely cause a heightened emotional state of suffering, my first contact with the scene yesterday was just such.. lots of nausea and feelings of a loss of control.

Today.. a lot of that energy has been cleared.

NOW LET THE TRUTH COME TO LIGHT.




Russian/Putin apologists here really need the following reminder. It's wrong--wrong when Russia is behind the act, and wrong if the US does it… But what's a million times more wrong is that a jumbo civilian commercial jet went down resulting in the loss of hundreds of lives!

Your research should reflect that major concern .... even at the expense of having to forfeit your own prevailing Pro-Putin sentiments should credible and substantiated evidence prove that the fault lies on the Russian side of this tragic incident.

[Cheyne]

I'd like to let Avalon know that the plane probably did go down with no survivors. My mother in-law's neighbor lost a family member that was on it. Ironically, she also lost 2 family members on the missing Malaysian Flight.

I guess something else may of happened other than being shot down (same result for the passengers though), but I'm not feeling it.

[Roisin]

Thanks Christine. I'm still going to stick by what I said though about those who are pro-Russian/Putin here and I said it because I think it's true and I'm still think it's true. This is a forum where we are permitted to give our viewpoints even if it goes against the prevailing one. In my view, several alternative news sources have been consistently pro-Putin over the course of the past few years. And in the case of this downed airliner, I'm once again seeing this sentiment throughout the reporting of yesterday's incident at those news sites and blogs regardless that there's much more information that strongly suggests that the fault may ultimately lie with Putin's Separatists in the case of this plane. IMHO, the vast majority of participants here are quoting those same pro-Putin sources regardless of the glaring errors in the form of sig. omissions, and blatant slanting toward their Pro-Putin stance in those reports of that incident that they are posting here. I feel that that justifies my very real concern that we are not seeing anything remotely close to what is termed "Fair and Balanced" reporting on this incident in this thread.

Obviously, I'm not going to gain any popularity votes by pointing this out but I'm just giving my own opinion on this. If, later on, I find out that I was wrong about my opinion on this, I will be the first one to admit that and own up to it. But at this present time, I have expressed where I'm at with this now and my disappointment that most here in this thread are only focusing on one side of this issue having to do with the demise of this airliner.

[SilentFeathers]

Fair and balanced....(from Fox News)

Smoking gun? Intercepted calls point finger at Russian separatists in jet downing (http://www.foxnews.com/world/2014/07/18/smoking-gun-intercepted-calls-point-finger-in-jet-downing-at-russian/)

yet, for some reason, I'm just not feelin it.....

Regardless, this is who ultimately pulled the trigger (the russian separatists), hell, they already decided this before any one actually reached the crash site.....

[EYES WIDE OPEN]

Rosin, thanks for the post but I am still waiting for your reason as to why you think I am pro-putin.

I am English. Why on earth would I be pro-Putin!?

To be honest, its more likely you would be anti-putin as you are america.
To be clear, I am NOT suggesting you are one thing or another.

I don't really care either way to be honest. I just want the truth like the rest of us.

I am just a bit miffed you think I am pro-putin and that you keep repeating it as Fact.
Let me put you straight.

I am neither one side or the other.

There you go.
You have no excuse now.
If you want to ignore my statement - go for it. If you do, to me that looks like your bias getting in the way of critical thinking.

As I said, I am putting the links on here as I come across them.
You seem to have ignored that fact despite me explaining it already.

We all have our own viewpoints but when somebody says something about me personally that is plain incorrect then I am not going to let it go past without saying anything.

Rosin, can you post some links yourself of what you consider unbiased fair reporting please. I look forward to reading them.

Now lets just leave it there.

Back onto the much more important topic:


http://www.veteranstoday.com/2014/07/18/ecips-issues-global-security-alert/


ECIPS ISSUES GLOBAL SECURITY ALERT

he European Centre for Information Policy and Security (ECIPS) issued an International SAT (Security Tension Alert) today. This comes after the Malaysia Airlines flight MH17 were shot down in Ukraine by extremist.
The President of the ECIPS, Mr. Ricardo Baretzky said that this incident could be the tipping point and could very easily seen as a hostile position against the EU. He also emphasized that this could result into many complications in aiding the growing tension between the EU and Russia.
ECIPS also called for the Malaysia Airlines to take responsibility since they were aware of the “Civilian Risks” in flying over a Internationally recognized warzone, and, that the Malaysia Airlines should be accountable for changing flight rout in order to save costs.
The President of ECIPS urged the European Union to step in and called for a stronger EU and warned that waiting to put out the fire before the house is burned down, could have many repercussions with stability on EU borders in the very near future and impair economical stability in certain regions.
The contravertional intelligence indicates that either way, the Boeing 777 were illegally shot down causing the death of 298 people and the crew. “This is not a act of war but an act of Terror” the President of ECIPS said. ” We should seriously look at the way we phrase wording classify terrorism since this incident is not an act of war but rather an act of Terror “.
ECIPS said that it is following the situation very closely and offered to step in for conflict negations should the tensions not be eased. The long term outlook of this incident could permanently harm the international relations from the west with Russia.
For World News by Kim Jones correspondence for the Blue House

[Christine]

From the same Fox News article, a link to remind us that the US shot down a passenger plane from Iran killing 290 people, just to keep the record straight:

https://learni.st/users/580/boards/27377-when-the-u-s-shot-down-a-civilian-iranian-airplane?utm_source=outbrain&utm_medium=paid_cpc&utm_campaign=society


Fair and balanced....(from Fox News)

Smoking gun? Intercepted calls point finger at Russian separatists in jet downing (http://www.foxnews.com/world/2014/07/18/smoking-gun-intercepted-calls-point-finger-in-jet-downing-at-russian/)

yet, for some reason, I'm just not feelin it.....

Regardless, this is who ultimately pulled the trigger (the russian separatists), hell, they already decided this before any one actually reached the crash site.....

[EYES WIDE OPEN]

http://www.intellihub.com/will-matching-malaysian-airlines-777-stored-israeli-hangar-later-used-false-flag-attack/


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UZhSmYAvugU

[EYES WIDE OPEN]

This is currently going on in Palastine:



As Israel Overruns Gaza, Tanks Ordered To "Open Fire At Anything That Moves"

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-07-18/israel-overruns-gaza-tanks-ordered-open-fire-anything-moves

[Roisin]

Oh, don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that we get "Fair and Balanced" reporting from mainstream news. And most definitely, Fox News is a real case in point. But on the other side of the coin, I'm not seeing any "Fair and Balanced" reporting of this incidence at those alternative news sites and blogs either. So consequently, it's up to the discriminating reader to separate the wheat from the chaff to get down to the bottom of where the real truth lies.

I personally am on the fence if Putin's goons are the guilty party wrt to the demise of that plane. But once again, I would like to see more fair and balanced reporting and commentaries by members here on this incident. I know that's possible too hence why I'm making that request... which in my view, is a very needed one.

[Lifebringer]

Is the DNA gonna be done on them. For all we know they could be the bodies from flight MH370. They are the lyingest bunch of losers of all time. WE must question everything, and as someone said the other day, it's what's "not" said, that we should pay attention to.

[Carmody]

Apparently, 100 of the world's leading AIDS researchers were on that flight.

Those involved in Aids research, some are saying that some of the best were lost,and this will have the effect of setting back AIDS research.

If you were a GMO chimp creating ANU (or related structure, ie, that level), the hidden hand.... this would be one of those great hidden hand moments. A group that would likely desire to drop the population and keep control.

Two for the single deal price, is one of their signature moves.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jul/18/aids-conference-says-100-researchers-may-have-been-on-board-crashed-plane

[Christine]

This is where we need to be focusing… PEACE NOW.


This is currently going on in Palestine:

As Israel Overruns Gaza, Tanks Ordered To "Open Fire At Anything That Moves"

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-07-18/israel-overruns-gaza-tanks-ordered-open-fire-anything-moves

[EYES WIDE OPEN]

Rosin, how would you identify "fair and balanced" reporting? Just curious.


Why not start by posting your own fair and balanced reporting and commentaries yourself to get things going as that is what you would like to see.

Could get more conversations going. :)

[SilentFeathers]

This is where we need to be focusing… PEACE NOW.


This is currently going on in Palestine:

As Israel Overruns Gaza, Tanks Ordered To "Open Fire At Anything That Moves"

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-07-18/israel-overruns-gaza-tanks-ordered-open-fire-anything-moves

I agree, yet at the same time we need to have eyes "in the back of our heads" and try to pay attention to as much as possible, as many of these events are intrinsically connected. Sorcery and the darkness of evil intentions seem to have no boundaries (or limits) as of late....

[bbj3n546pt]

Today's flight MAS17 is now in the air (18 July 2014, 14:03 GMT). You can track it live at http://flightaware.com/live/flight/MAS17/history/20140718/1000Z/EHAM/WMKK

[Christine]

Your post is #177! :)

I couldn't agree more and YES! we need to SEE holographically! I have stated over and over to anyone that all listen to me, we need eyes in the back of our heads…



This is where we need to be focusing… PEACE NOW.


This is currently going on in Palestine:

As Israel Overruns Gaza, Tanks Ordered To "Open Fire At Anything That Moves"

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-07-18/israel-overruns-gaza-tanks-ordered-open-fire-anything-moves

I agree, yet at the same time we need to have eyes "in the back of our heads" and try to pay attention to as much as possible, as many of these events are intrinsically connected. Sorcery and the darkness of evil intentions seem to have no boundaries (or limits) as of late....

[Roisin]

Hot News Release: NWO Attempted Assassination of Vladimir Putin, But Got the Wrong Plane?
New information reveals that President Valdimir Putin’s plane may have been the target of an attempted assassination! It Looks That Way! (Breaking News Videos)

Thursday, July 17, 2014

http://beforeitsnews.com/contributor/upload/238056/images/Vladimir-Putin_4(1).jpg
He is doing many things right and standing strong for what is moral in this world. Furthermore, he is going against the grain of the New World Order, and we all know they don’t like that!

NWO Attempted Assassination of Vladimir Putin–It Certainly Looks That Way!


RT News reports:

Malaysian Airlines MH17 plane was travelling almost the same route as Russia’s President Vladimir Putin’s jet shortly before the crash that killed 295, Interfax news agency reports citing sources.“I can say that Putin’s plane and the Malaysian Boeing intersected at the same point and the same echelon. That was close to Warsaw on 330-m echelon at the height of 10,100 meters. The presidential jet was there at 16:21 Moscow time and the Malaysian aircraft – 15:44 Moscow time,” a source told the news agency on condition of anonymity.

“The contours of the aircrafts are similar, linear dimensions are also very similar, as for the coloring, at a quite remote distance they are almost identical”, the source added. http://rt.com/news/173672-malaysia-plane-crash-putin/



Is it possible that the Malaysian plane that went down was meant to be his? Did they try to assassinate him? Watch the facts stated in the videos below, because it certainly appears that way!

Check out this breaking video news footage and see for yourself!

RT NEWS LINK: http://rt.com/news/173672-malaysia-plane-crash-putin/ (Please check out for full details)


President Putin’s plane might have been the target for Ukrainian missile – sources
http://rt.com/news/173672-malaysia-pl…

Obama on the phone with Putin as a Jetliner is taken down. Was this a planned assassination fail?

BRICS establish $100bn bank and currency pool to cut out Western dominance
http://rt.com/business/173008-brics-b…

Faced With Western Freeze-Out, BRICS Bank Is a Coup for Russia


PS - Nice ((Alibi)) Barry...:nono:


Obama on the phone with Putin as a Jetliner is taken down. Was this a planned assassination fail?


Ukraine + BRICS = NWO Banksters :(

http://png-1.findicons.com/files/icons/977/rrze/48/flag_red.pngFalse-Flag WARNING..!!!

PSS - Now watch this story UNFOLD

Media War (West vs Russia)

Watch what Putin says when he will be ((FORCED to EXPOSE)) the False-Flag Event..!

This is NOT going to play out the way the NWO/BANKSTERS expect...:nono:


He is doing many things right and standing strong for what is moral in this world. Furthermore, he is going against the grain of the New World Order, and we all know they don’t like that!

Uh huh. What about Putin's Anti-Gay Law and his banning of gays at Sochi's Olympic games? The fact is, Putin is a dictator who marches to his own drum whose own sense of "human rights" is extremely warped when it comes to several important social issues that most of the rest of the civilized world is at least attempting to address and correct.

That was a topic at Freaking News at the time when all of that was going on and here's an image of Putin that I created for that that I entitled "Coming Out".

http://i932.photobucket.com/albums/ad164/A99_x/Coming-Out--114039sm.jpg (http://s932.photobucket.com/user/A99_x/media/Coming-Out--114039sm.jpg.html)

[Christine]

Humbly submitting here that Putin's character is not the topic of discussion, a thread about that specifically would be welcomed.

We are all entitled to our opinion but please can we get :focus:

[Lifebringer]

There is no evidence to suggest that the separatists possess the BUK missile systems.

I've been reading otherwise and quite frankly, not only can I not trust the mainstream news on this story but I also do not trust any alternative news sources on it either because they are too Pro-Putin hence why the discriminating reader is still trying to separate the wheat from the chaff on that end too. Both sides are too slanted toward their own operating paradigm so which ever way you cut it, the real truth on what happened today is extremely FUZZY.

In the future, WE cannot do fuzzy. Fuzzy got us people dying on the death penalty. Fuzzy gets the rich off after destroying a witness because of where they've had to survive from, even if they tell the truth on the stand. Fuzzy got us nazis on the police force that Bush/Cheney and Rummy got from the KKK in the prisons to fight in Afghanistan and Iraq and they were the ones "raping" fellow service women and threatening them with death if they talked. You see Rummy played the "Dirty Dozen" movie after 911 and wanted the most heartless of people?/soldiers on the ground to fight. Ones w/out a conscious. I followed their every friggin move while the were in there. It was my mission, even when Cheney went to upstate NY to a known KKK organization, after shooting the lawyer in the face.

So the cornered rats are trying to set up Putin, and since Putin is blocking Israel from attacking Iran and so is China, that typhoon off China's coast since BRIC announcement, is a little bit suspect. While we're watching the Ukraine, Israeli/Palestine conflict, and world cup, the plotter still plot. Boy I can't wait for Divine Justice. Now that is something they cannot stop. There were other villains over lifetimes before ours, and where did they end up? Even the Giants were no match for Mother Nature's spiritual march to cleanse the land of parasites exploiting her life blood that keeps here environmentally sound. Yes, the crys of the dolphin, whales, and other sea creatures have been heard too.

Just to live to see it end, is my mission and I will keep linking links, and spreading the word on what they are doing before I go to my dirt nap.

[Christine]

Paul Joseph Watson's summary on infowars:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RMgIpC-bCfQ

[Roisin]

Quite the contrary, I think Putin's character is definitely "on the line" in the case of this downed plane. But we will find out more about that if Moscow turns over those black boxes (untampered with) found at the site of that downed plane that his paid and volunteer Russian mercenaries/ the Separatists are rumored to have sent there, to those authorities who are designated by international law as the ones who should be examining that material.

--------------
Everyone has a right to their own opinion but we all know that it would not be surprising if he ends up tampering and erasing any information in those boxes if he finds anything that indicates that his mercenaries/the Separatists were the ones who shot down that plane. Hence why they scooped up those boxes immediately and sent them off to the Kremlin.

[Gekko]

Apparently, 100 of the world's leading AIDS researchers were on that flight.

Those involved in Aids research, some are saying that some of the best were lost,and this will have the effect of setting back AIDS research.

If the deaths themselves weren't tragic enough - that is so tragically frustrating

[gripreaper]

In a problem, reaction, solution scenario, the problem needs to create the reaction of chaos and fear, so that we buy the solution. It's what's happening in the quantum energy field which is the driving force.

[Roisin]

So what's more important? Adhering to one point of view that's consistent with the political paradigm one has been operating from and believes to be true. Or going out of ones comfort zone and daring to examine those other views from those who are operating in those other political paradigms out there that one usually shuns for one reason or another.... especially if they have glaring evidence that proves that, in this case, Putin is the guilty party in the downing of this plane?

Isn't the goal to find out who shot that plane down? I think it's time that we put aside all of our political differences and prejudices and instead work together to seek and find the truth regardless who finds it and what their political affinities are.

[SilentFeathers]

Seriously, who in their right mind would fly a plane load of almost 300 people over a war zone where it was common knowledge planes were getting blasted out of the sky?????

Is Malaysian Airlines really this stupid?????

[Bill Ryan]

it would not be surprising if he ends up tampering and erasing any information in those boxes if he finds anything that indicates that his mercenaries/the Separatists were the ones who shot down that plane..


But why would Russian separatists ever have done that??

Framing Russia, to meet a new-Cold-War global agenda, makes a great deal more logical sense. (Either that, or it was a mistake, with some Ukrainian faction having intended to bring down Putin's plane.)

[araucaria]

Apparently, 100 of the world's leading AIDS researchers were on that flight.

Those involved in Aids research, some are saying that some of the best were lost,and this will have the effect of setting back AIDS research.

If you were a GMO chimp creating ANU (or related structure, ie, that level), the hidden hand.... this would be one of those great hidden hand moments. A group that would likely desire to drop the population and keep control.

Two for the single deal price, is one of their signature moves.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jul/18/aids-conference-says-100-researchers-may-have-been-on-board-crashed-plane
more here:
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/malaysia-airlines-crash-joep-lange-among-up-to-100-aids-researchers-and-activists-on-board-flight-mh17-9613821.html

[Roisin]

I think differently on this one Bill. The technology used to shoot down that plane calls for exact calibrations not to mention capturing the ID of those transponder signals of that plane which is also automatically indicated in that technology. So this suggests to us that those who shot down that plane, most likely knew it was a commercial airliner.

At this point in time, I'm not ruling out that that plane was shot down intentionally and that they knew it was a commercial airliner. I also am not ruling out that Putin may be itching for another world war to team up with China to defeat the Western allies. That's my view.... if it's wrong, then I'll own up to that but this is my view at this present time.

[araucaria]

I'd like to let Avalon know that the plane probably did go down with no survivors. My mother in-law's neighbor lost a family member that was on it. Ironically, she also lost 2 family members on the missing Malaysian Flight.

I guess something else may of happened other than being shot down (same result for the passengers though), but I'm not feeling it.
Maybe this story is about those people:
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/malaysia-airlines-family-who-lost-two-members-on-flight-mh370-have-lost-two-more-on-mh17-9614230.html

[thunder24]

Heard about this also on fox radio...

I'd like to let Avalon know that the plane probably did go down with no survivors. My mother in-law's neighbor lost a family member that was on it. Ironically, she also lost 2 family members on the missing Malaysian Flight.

I guess something else may of happened other than being shot down (same result for the passengers though), but I'm not feeling it.
Maybe this story is about those people:
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/malaysia-airlines-family-who-lost-two-members-on-flight-mh370-have-lost-two-more-on-mh17-9614230.html

[Agape]

You can think ..whatever , in terms of global agenda .. is because what you know .

Just consider that those hordes of Cossacks ( not sure with spelling ) , the natives of that area - nicknamed 'rebels' and 'pro-russian separatists' are potentially not interested in anything else than their own territory .
Like many other ethnics they can turn to ultra-nationalists , especially with weapons in their hands, they have fight for freedom in their blood .
I don't think they are interested in Russia more than in Ukraine , the space is vast there and they don't want any rule over their heads.

They were historically , hordes of people who moved on their horses , plundered villages, camped in wild , lived free , similar to Mongolian tribes of old . They revolted against all and any rule . Some served well in armies and many ran away when they could so they did not have to serve anyone.

I can well imagine they'd be upto anything if it serves their freedom . But the least oriented they are in global strategy and thinking for the planet . To them it matters nothing and who was on that plane .

[EYES WIDE OPEN]

I am thinking that Isreal MAY be involved with this. We have the double of the missing MALAYSIAN plane stored away 2 months ago (see articles I posted in this thread) and now Israel are attacking Gaza while we all talk about the MALAYSIAN air crash yesterday.

Israeli Crowd Cheers As Missile Hits Gaza Live On CNN

http://www.buzzfeed.com/dorsey/israeli-crowd-cheers-as-missile-hits-gaza-live-on-cnn


Back on the crash - why is nobody talking about the tweets from the air traffic contol regarding fighter jets?


http://www.infowars.com/ukraine-air-traffic-controller-suggests-kiev-military-shot-down-passenger-plane/


Military air traffic controllers in internal communication acknowledged the military was involved, and some military chatter said they did not know where the order to shoot down the plane originated from.

Obviously it happened after a series of errors, since the very same plane was escorted by two Ukrainian fighter jets until 3 minutes before it disappeared from radar.

[Flash]

You can think ..whatever , in terms of global agenda .. is because what you know .

Just consider that those hordes of Cossacks ( not sure with spelling ) , the natives of that area - nicknamed 'rebels' and 'pro-russian separatists' are potentially not interested in anything else than their own territory .
Like many other ethnics they can turn to ultra-nationalists , especially with weapons in their hands, they have fight for freedom in their blood .
I don't think they are interested in Russia more than in Ukraine , the space is vast there and they don't want any rule over their heads.

They were historically , hordes of people who moved on their horses , plundered villages, camped in wild , lived free , similar to Mongolian tribes of old . They revolted against all and any rule . Some served well in armies and many ran away when they could so they did not have to serve anyone.

I can well imagine they'd be upto anything if it serves their freedom . But the least oriented they are in global strategy and thinking for the planet . To them it matters nothing and who was on that plane .

Pretty much true, and this is one possibitity: sheer stupidity mixed with fierce nationalism interpreted as total freedom to do whatever one wants

There is also the possibility of manipulation from Russia, from USA, from Israel, even from Germany or China, or directly from the dracos for example

And the possibility of the wanted disappearance of AIDS scientists

And all of this combined

It is easy to manipulated stupid people into doing one's plans - ultra nationalists fit this possibility of being manipulated as well.

[EYES WIDE OPEN]

http://www.jimstonefreelance.com/index.html C

Imediately after the shoot down, foreign people entered the nearest control tower that was monitoring flight MH17 and removed the normal workers and started doing their jobs. Normal workers in the tower were "temporarily" relieved. Obviously the "correct" people were put in place there to front the "official" story. These tweets are re-linked HERE and hopefully they will remain intact, they were tweets by the original workers in the tower saying they had been removed: https://twitter.com/spainbuca/status/489813837013848065 https://twitter.com/spainbuca/status/489815416701984769 https://twitter.com/spainbuca/status/489816898545012736 https://twitter.com/spainbuca/status/489817106259927041 The original people in the tower had witnessed the fact that flight MH17 was being escorted by two fighter jets up until a couple minutes before it disappeared. These fighter jets identified themselves as Ukranian, but I seriously doubt they were. My best guess, based upon other information such as stated cancellations of flight MH17 and conflicting departure times (there can be only one departure time if it was a real departure). These two pieces of information - that no one could agree on a departure time and at least ONE plane tracking web site said the flight was cancelled, pretty much sews this one up - MH17 very probably never took off and was substituted for another identical aircraft. And what identical aircraft was available for this? Flight 370.

It is highly probable that flight 370 was substituted out, zombie flown via remote by both fighter jets with all original passengers aboard and possibly other undesirables, and then shot down by the fighter jet escorts. Buk missiles produce a very noticeable plume, and no one documented any. In the day of cell phone cams, I would say zero documentation of something so noticeable means no missile launch. This points the finger at the fighter jet escorts which have always been completely scrubbed from the mainstream media and would do the dirty work at an altitude too high for any witnesses. Needless to say then, reports about communication with any originating tower would all be false, but if flight systems were adequately spoofed (or possibly no need to spoof them at all) the "zombie" MH17/370 could report itself as MH17 via falsified transponder to other traffic control towers and none would know anything was amiss because it would have been expected at the appropriate times anyway. And all communication could easily be spoofed by the fighter jet escorts, with no pilots at all aboard MH17/370. While targeting for shoot down, they could just sit there silent and shoot it down.



EDIT: TWEETS HAVE GONE TO MEMORY HOLE!

[Flash]

your twitter connections are already out, do not exist anymore
those messages should have been copied - they are critical

[EYES WIDE OPEN]

The tweets have gone. This may be very important: Here they are:

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=619877978126145&set=p.619877978126145&type=1&theater

But again, it could be that "carlos" is just making a joke in bad taste.

[observer]

In a problem, reaction, solution scenario, the problem needs to create the reaction of chaos and fear, so that we buy the solution. It's what's happening in the quantum energy field which is the driving force. - [emphasis by observer]



I couldn't agree with you more, grip.

The only point of contention among the members is, What controls the hologram (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?56913-What-controls-the-hologram)? .... with the understanding controlling the hologram is simply the manipulation of the quantum field.

"They are very clever at what they do...."

[Agape]

You can think ..whatever , in terms of global agenda .. is because what you know .

Just consider that those hordes of Cossacks ( not sure with spelling ) , the natives of that area - nicknamed 'rebels' and 'pro-russian separatists' are potentially not interested in anything else than their own territory .
Like many other ethnics they can turn to ultra-nationalists , especially with weapons in their hands, they have fight for freedom in their blood .
I don't think they are interested in Russia more than in Ukraine , the space is vast there and they don't want any rule over their heads.

They were historically , hordes of people who moved on their horses , plundered villages, camped in wild , lived free , similar to Mongolian tribes of old . They revolted against all and any rule . Some served well in armies and many ran away when they could so they did not have to serve anyone.

I can well imagine they'd be upto anything if it serves their freedom . But the least oriented they are in global strategy and thinking for the planet . To them it matters nothing and who was on that plane .

Pretty much true, and this is one possibitity: sheer stupidity mixed with fierce nationalism interpreted as total freedom to do whatever one wants

There is also the possibility of manipulation from Russia, from USA, from Israel, even from Germany or China, or directly from the dracos for example

And the possibility of the wanted disappearance of AIDS scientists

And all of this combined

It is easy to manipulated stupid people into doing one's plans - ultra nationalists fit this possibility of being manipulated as well.


It seems they are playing on both sides , making use of the chaos because the chaos serves them well .

It's the same thing that happened in countries like Afghanistan and similar areas, all they want is get rid of the rule imposed on them historically from other cultures and getting hands on weapons is the only way they think this can be achieved .
These groups take advantage of their 'aimless mentality' and war as a way of life .

Whoever supplies them weapons and aids is a 'friend' . Major rift between the superpowers too is a 'friend' , that's how this all started .

Hard to think of solutions as long as the atmosphere is one of hatred . Everything is connected on the big scheme yes and potentially very dangerous situation .

[Operator]

Despite alternative media indicating anomalies in this case the room for speculation AND propaganda,
intentional or opportunistic, does take hold in mainstream media setting the main stage for public
opinion ... unfortunately.

We should actually wait using language and terms while there are no hard facts justifying them.
Like talking about the plane is 'shot down' and yet there is no evidence for that so far.

Finding evidence for a ground-to-air or air-to-air strike should be easy ... HOWEVER ... because
of the warlike situation in that area we won't get that evidence I'm afraid. There will always be
room for speculation that there was time to place or remove that evidence ... whatever suits
the party making such a claim.

And in the meantime parties take the opportunity not to let this crisis go to waste. E.g.:
http://www.telegraaf.nl/tv/nieuws/ttvnieuws/22871770/__Slachtoffers_krijgen_gezichten__.html

In this short Dutch newscast they report that remorseful Russian people put flowers and notes
saying 'sorry' at the Dutch embassy because they apparently believe their own president Putin
is responsible for the death of hundreds of passengers ... :suspicious: really ?!?

When I called family and friends in the Netherlands yesterday they were already convinced by
US supplied radar intelligence that a missile was launched from the ground.

Why not wait with all these energy draining speculations, gather hard evidence first and
keep the signal to noise ratio to acceptable levels?

[Cidersomerset]

I was wondering why the plane was flying over a war zone ?

There was a 'no' fly zone upto 32, 000 ft and the airliner
was flying at 33, 000 so this asks more questions from
a 'false flag ' point of view.Could the missile fly higher ? or was
the plane lower ? There was still a large amount of traffic
flying over the area until yesterday,see article below.....


1) If it was pro Russian Seperatists , why did they do it ?

2) I would of thought it was a mistake, and they thought it was a Ukrainian military plane ...

3) As planes still fly over regularly the Russians would know that and would not
attack imo. They have nothing at all to gain by doing something like this and
everthing to lose. Unless they were creating a 'False flag' to blame the Ukrainians
which is unlikely .

4) The Ukrainians would obviously gain by blaming either the seperatists or Russians.


5)Then you go into the wider false flag conspiracies.....


-----------------------------------------------------------


http://static.bbci.co.uk/frameworks/barlesque/2.60.9/desktop/3.5/img/blq-blocks_grey_alpha.png

18 July 2014 Last updated at 13:14

Who, what, why: How often do planes fly over conflict zones?Magazine Monitor
Who, What, Why


The crash of Malaysian airliner MH17 in eastern Ukraine has raised questions
about which conflict zones commercial jets will fly over. Who decides where
is safe to fly, asks Tom de Castella.

Most of the decisions about a route are taken by airlines. But they must avoid
no-fly zones. The area where the Malaysian airliner crashed had a no-fly zone
in place up to 32,000ft (9,754m). The airliner was flying at 33,000ft (10,058m).

There are also national aviation bodies to consider. For example, the US's
Federal Aviation Administration in April issued a Notam (notice to airmen)
that prohibited US airliners from flying over the Crimean region of Ukraine
and nearby areas of the Black Sea and the Sea of Azov. After the crash of
MH17 it widened that to cover the whole of Ukraine.

Continue reading the main story
The answer
No-fly zones must be avoided
A national aviation authority can ban its airlines from flying over part of a foreign country
Otherwise it is up to the airlines to decide

British Airways has been avoiding eastern Ukraine for some time, the BBC
understands. But many airlines continued to fly over it. According to Flight
radar24, which monitors live flight paths, the airlines that most frequently
flew over Donetsk in eastern Ukraine in the last week were: Aeroflot 86 (flights),
Singapore Airlines 75, Ukraine International Airlines 62, Lufthansa 56, and
Malaysian 48. It was not necessarily a risky approach. The chance of a rocket
reaching above 32,000 feet was considered remote, says Sylvia Spruck Wrigley,
author of Why Planes Crash.

The UK's Civil Aviation Authority says airlines' decisions will be based on a range
of factors - advice from the Foreign Office, warnings in the area, weather,
navigation aids, strikes and which airports are out of action. They will generally
fly the shortest route - a long detour around a warzone will cause delay and
add extra fuel costs.


http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/76349000/jpg/_76349447_624_ukraine-plane-close.jpg

A map of Ukraine and surrounding countries tracking all active planes. Only a few
planes cross Ukrainian air space After the attack: Airliners avoid eastern Ukraine
Airlines fly over most trouble spots, says Mikael Robertsson, co-founder of Flight
radar24. They have to get from A to B in the most efficient manner possible. Syria
is probably the only airspace that everyone avoids. Other trouble spots - North Korea
and Somalia - airliners do fly over, he says, although it is hard to verify how common this is.

A pilot told the Guardian that "We would often avoid areas where there is air-to-air
conflict, but we flew over Iraq and Afghanistan when the British and US armed forces
were deployed there, because only one side was using military jets."

Airlines tend to be secretive about operational details, perhaps for security reasons.
BA says that it will not give "further details" on its routes, adding: "Some parts of the
world are closed to commercial airline operations and we would never fly in airspace
unless we were satisfied that it was safe to do so." It still flies to Ukraine, although
not over the east of the country.

Qantas would only say: "We don't fly over the Ukraine. For London to Dubai we fly
400 nautical miles south of the region."

Subscribe to the BBC News Magazine's email newsletter to get articles

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/blogs-magazine-monitor-28364306

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

lastest BBC news report


18 July 2014 Last updated at 17:19

MH17 crash: OSCE investigators reach east Ukraine site


Confirmed death toll so far

Netherlands: 189
Malaysia: 44 (including 15 crew)
Australian: 27
Indonesia: 12
UK: 9
Germany: 4
Belgium: 4
Philippines: 3
Canada: 1
New Zealand: 1
Unverified: 4


---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Possible system used if it was a ground to air missile..

Used by both the Russian and Ukrainian armies


Buk surface-to-air missile system

http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/76339000/gif/_76339805_sa11_624.gif

SA-11 Gadfly
Also known as SA-11 Gadfly (or newer SA-17 Grizzly)

Russian-made, mobile, medium range system

Weapons: Four surface-to-air missiles

Missile speed (max): Mach 3

Target altitude (max): 22,000 metres (72,000ft)

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-28361908

---------------------------------------------------------------------------



short vid on link....http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-28375256

President Obama says the deaths are an "outrage of unspeakable proportions"

President Obama: 'Evidence Malaysia jet was shot down'15 minutes ago

President Obama has said there is evidence that the Malaysia Airlines flight, which
crashed in eastern Ukraine on Thursday, was shot down by a surface-to-air-missile
from an area controlled by pro-Russia separatists.

Mr Obama described the downing of the plane, with 295 people on board, as
an "outrage of unspeakable proportions".

The US president went on to demand a "credible international investigation", an
immediate ceasefire and access to the crash site.

Read more
MH17 crash: OSCE investigators reach east Ukraine site

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-28375256

[EYES WIDE OPEN]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aKKoKmUtQXE&feature=youtu.be

Rebel fighter describing how Kiev regime tried unsuccessfully to lure the rebels into shooting down an airliner by mistake. Remember to switch on English subtitles.

Put subtitles on.

[jackovesk]

it would not be surprising if he ends up tampering and erasing any information in those boxes if he finds anything that indicates that his mercenaries/the Separatists were the ones who shot down that plane..


But why would Russian separatists ever have done that??

Framing Russia, to meet a new-Cold-War global agenda, makes a great deal more logical sense. (Either that, or it was a mistake, with some Ukrainian faction having intended to bring down Putin's plane.)

To put it honestly Bill, I think Putin will be reveling in this...:yes4:


He's got the ((Black Box)) which means, one way or another he will know the Truth as to what really happened to MH17

&

What really Cracks me up :pound: is he will KNOW if they really did try to Assassinate him by targeting his jet...:)


All seriousness aside of this tragic event...


This is Geo-Political (Comical-Theatre) at its best and we all have (Front Row Seats) :popcorn:

The ((Old World Order)) are simply NOT going to make it through to the other side this time...:nono:

Really, have a look at the players on the TEAM US...

Biden, McCain, Obama, Hitlary & Kerry and all of them against just 1 man with some Powerful friends...:pound:

Like I said the OWO are not going to make it out of this one, even if they drop a Nuke in the middle of America..!

They're Done, Kaput, Nada - Outta-here..! :wave:

The (CHANGE) has already occurred...:yes4:

[TargeT]

We should actually wait using language and terms while there are no hard facts justifying them.
Like talking about the plane is 'shot down' and yet there is no evidence for that so far.


the lack of critical thinking on this topic is a good litmus test for "where we are" as a people....

(so let me join in!)

Unless I'm missing something (VERY VERY likely) This entire situation may have just been a test of the current psycology... this could just be a "test run" to see how gullable we are before other actions are taken.

[jackovesk]

Thanks Christine. I'm still going to stick by what I said though about those who are pro-Russian/Putin here and I said it because I think it's true and I'm still think it's true. This is a forum where we are permitted to give our viewpoints even if it goes against the prevailing one. In my view, several alternative news sources have been consistently pro-Putin over the course of the past few years. And in the case of this downed airliner, I'm once again seeing this sentiment throughout the reporting of yesterday's incident at those news sites and blogs regardless that there's much more information that strongly suggests that the fault may ultimately lie with Putin's Separatists in the case of this plane. IMHO, the vast majority of participants here are quoting those same pro-Putin sources regardless of the glaring errors in the form of sig. omissions, and blatant slanting toward their Pro-Putin stance in those reports of that incident that they are posting here. I feel that that justifies my very real concern that we are not seeing anything remotely close to what is termed "Fair and Balanced" reporting on this incident in this thread.

Obviously, I'm not going to gain any popularity votes by pointing this out but I'm just giving my own opinion on this. If, later on, I find out that I was wrong about my opinion on this, I will be the first one to admit that and own up to it. But at this present time, I have expressed where I'm at with this now and my disappointment that most here in this thread are only focusing on one side of this issue having to do with the demise of this airliner.

Don't be so hard on yourself Roisin, everyone's entitled to their own opinion...:yes4:

I think people that tend to believe Putin's side of the story, have not formed that opinion with anything they have learnt from the MSM...:nono:

I think those that are looking for rational answers are more likely to side with Putin due to his standing up against the establishment i.e. BRICS and their (New Bank) that will now compete DIRECTLY with the World Bank & IMF. Not to mention Putin and his Allies running a mile away from the 'Petro-Dollar', etc...

Plus, most other Countries have had an absolute (Gutful) of US Foreign Policy..!!!

Having said that, all bets are 'OFF' if Putin is (In-On-It)?

We are all Toast...:faint:

[the_real_dave-id]

For what it's worth... WGN Channel 9 out of Chicago IL, is now reporting that the plane was "shot down" from 34,000 feet, when yesterday they said 33,000,
and that there was 298 people killed, when yesterday they reported 295.

I'm wondering why the change? When they reported the figures yesterday there was no verbiage that made it seem like they weren't absolutely sure, like "we're hearing reports of up to 295 people" or "around 33,000 feet," they were very definite in their wording.... yet today they are just as definite but different, with no acknowledgement of a change. :(

Weird.... and I'm guessing it affects any numerology being done.

[jackovesk]

We should actually wait using language and terms while there are no hard facts justifying them.
Like talking about the plane is 'shot down' and yet there is no evidence for that so far.


the lack of critical thinking on this topic is a good litmus test for "where we are" as a people....

(so let me join in!)

Unless I'm missing something (VERY VERY likely) This entire situation may have just been a test of the current psycology... this could just be a "test run" to see how gullable we are before other actions are taken.

Just part of the (PRS) package, is all...:noidea:

PS - Remember, most of their Cards have already been played...:yes4:

WWIII...:yes4: Only if (No-one Stands Up to Them) on a Political level..!

[Roisin]

What would it take to shoot down Malaysia jet?

To shoot down a commercial airliner at cruising altitude would require advanced anti-air missile systems. Among the easiest systems to employ would be man-portable air-defense systems, known as MANPADS. But some experts ruled out that possibility.

‘‘First off, a MANPAD did not shoot down that airliner,’’ a former Marine Special Operations member trained in air defense systems said. ‘‘A MANPADS original purpose is for low-flying aircraft with high-heat signatures.’’


‘‘Like helicopters,’’ he added.

MANPADS have been known to target commercial aircraft — but usually only during takeoff and landing, when the jets are moving the slowest and are the most vulnerable. A DHL transport plane was struck by an SA-14, a type of MANPAD, shortly after departing Baghdad international airport in 2003.

‘‘MANPADS don’t have the fuel to continue tracking a fast moving target at high altitude,’’ said the special operations member, who spoke on condition of anonymity because he was not authorized to speak publicly.

Pro-Russian separatists have denied allegations that they brought down the aircraft, saying they lack weapons systems that would be able to target an airliner at a cruising altitude near 30,000 ft. At the same time, rebels in eastern Ukraine claimed that they had shot down a Ukrainian transport plane earlier this week. That plane, an IL-76, was shot down at 21,000 ft, according to U.S. officials. Three crew members were killed.

Both Russia and Ukraine have moved advanced air defense systems near their borders in recent months, including the SA-17 Buk 2. The SA-17, known to NATO countries as the ‘‘Grizzly,’’ is an advanced iteration of the SA-11 ‘‘Gadfly’’ and is fielded by a number of countries.

The SA-17 is a surface-to-air missile system that can be fired from either a wheeled or a tracked chassis and can engage aircraft at anywhere from altitudes of roughly 32 feet to 78,000 feet, putting flight MH17 easily within range.

The SA-17 guides its missiles via a radar array, unlike MANPADS, which mostly use a heat signature for guidance.

Flight MH17 was a Boeing 777-200, with a wingspan of 199 feet, while the Il-76, the aircraft shot down Monday in eastern Ukraine, has a wingspan of 165 feet.

‘‘To a radar operator, the two aircraft might look similar,’’ said Navy Pilot Lt. James Swiggart, who has flown early-warning aircraft.

However, Swiggart explained, advanced surface-to-air systems like the SA-17 are transponder aware, meaning they can detect if they are targeting an airliner. Civilian airlines are constantly broadcasting a four-digit transponder, known as an IFF code, that designates aircraft as civilian. The code would be detected by the SA-17 if the weapons system attempted to lock on or ‘‘paint’’ MH17.

‘‘It’s easy to tell the difference between a civilian aircraft or not, if you’re a skilled radar operator,’’ Swiggart said. ‘‘There’s really no excuse to shoot down an airliner unless you were trying to.’’

Swiggart added that airliners fly well-established routes at regulated speeds. And while military aircraft have an advanced warning system in case they are being targeted by anti-aircraft missiles, civilian aircraft have no such device.

‘‘They would have had no idea,’’ Swiggart said.

http://www.bostonglobe.com/news/world/2014/07/17/what-would-take-shoot-down-malaysia-jet/25grf63vNcxJrvMIkEuayI/story.html?p1=Article_Related

[Roisin]

Thanks jackovesk! I feel a lot better now that you said that. Really do hate to express any opinions of mine that are not in synch with what I perceive is the opinion of most others in any given thread. And for most part, I'm usually in agreement with everyone at this forum on most of the stuff we talk about here. But in this case, just wanted people to also consider information from mainstream news because due to the nature of this incident, we need to examine all sides of the story.

[Bill Ryan]

I also am not ruling out that Putin may be itching for another world war to team up with China to defeat the Western allies.

But surely if that was the case, he'd not have taken action personally to avert a serious conflict in Syria last year. All the evidence suggests Putin is intent on avoiding a serious conflagration, while carefully safeguarding Russian national interests.

As far as I can see, what all the evidence DOES suggest is that it's the US (and/or the globalists) who are pressing, covertly, for a major war.

[Carmody]

I also am not ruling out that Putin may be itching for another world war to team up with China to defeat the Western allies.

But surely if that was the case, he'd not have taken action personally to avert a serious conflict in Syria last year. All the evidence suggests Putin is intent on avoiding a serious conflagration, while carefully safeguarding Russian national interests.

As far as I can see, what all the evidence DOES suggest is that it's the US (and/or the globalists) who are pressing, covertly, for a major war.

With about 400-600 years of back-story and prior behavior to back up such a position, or 'take' on the situation.

[Agape]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aKKoKmUtQXE&feature=youtu.be

Rebel fighter describing how Kiev regime tried unsuccessfully to lure the rebels into shooting down an airliner by mistake. Remember to switch on English subtitles.

Put subtitles on.

What a nice, clean, humanitarian terrorist with fresh nail polish and sexy wrist band ?


;)

[the_real_dave-id]

I wanted to add that yesterday an "expert" being interviewed on ABC by George Stephanopoulos stated that since the debris field spread over ten miles it couldn't have been a missile from the ground, this would have created a smaller more concentrated debris field, and intimated that this information suggested the possibility a bomb on the plane. Nothing about this appeared again during the 4 1/2 hour broadcast.

Anybody know if a ten mile debris field would mean no missile or a possible plane located bomb??

Also just before the end of the broadcast George reported that there was a threat on the capitol and Wash DC was being put under lockdown.... this got my attention and as I waited for the follow up he went on to go over "what we knew so far" about the crash, then said he was turning it back over to local programming and would check back in on the evening news. I never heard anything more about that either. Odd.

Anybody else hear anything about that?

[Roisin]

That's a sticky topic Bill. I personally feel that Assad gassed those people or that one of his generals did. Putin's support of Assad and Syria is financial. He and his cronies have much to gain by remaining on good terms with Syria. That's my view on that one.

Also, I think if (actually they are) Reptilians are running the show, we already know that they are more apt to fight each other than us directly and that there are opposing factions of them. I know this not only from the information in Houman's thread but even before I ever read anything in that thread, I have already told a few people in this forum about information that I've received myself about those warring factions.

So because that's how it is, I think that China and Russia and those other countries they have under their wings are under the influence of those Reptilians who are members of an opposing faction than those Reptilians who are controlling leaders in the West. If you are saying that it's the West that wants war, that very well could be the case. I have to do more research on that. But on the surface of it, Putin and China seem more trigger happy than the West and more apt to start up a war. At least, that's how it looks to me.... at this point in time.

[Dorjezigzag]

This is understandably turning into a massive thread so I'm not sure if this has been posted,



"Ukrainian authorities have released what they say are intercepted phone conversations between pro-Russian separatists and what appear to be Russian military officers saying that separatists shot down Malaysia Airlines flight MH17.

The Ukrainian Security Service put the Russian-language conversations on YouTube within hours of the crash.

The veracity of the recordings cannot be confirmed.

First recording

[Male voice, identified as separatist leader Igor Bezler] The group of the Miner [an alias] has just shot down a plane, which came down just behind Yenakiyevo.

[Col Geranin] Pilots. Where are the pilots?

[Bezler] Gone to search for and photograph the plane. It's smoking.

[Second male voice, identified as Russian military intelligence Colonel Vasily Geranin] How many minutes ago?

[Bezler] About 30 minutes ago.

Second recording

[Male voice, captioned as "The Greek" ] Yes, Major.

[Major] Well, the Chernukhino lads shot down the plane.

[Greek] Who shot it down?

[Major] From the Chernukhino roadblock. The Cossacks at Chernukhino.

[Greek] Yes, Major.

[Major] Well, the plane fell apart in the air, near the Pertropavlovskaya coal mine. The first casualty 200 [military jargon for dead body] has been found. A civilian.

[Greek] Well, what do you have there?

[Major] Basically it was 100% a civilian aircraft.

[Greek] Are many people there?

[Major] [Curses] The debris fell right into backyard.

[Greek] What kind of aircraft?

[Major] I have not figured this out yet because I haven't been close to the main body of the debris. I am only looking where the first bodies began to fall. There are the remnants of inner brackets, chairs and bodies there.

[Greek] I see. Any weaponry there?

[Major] Nothing at all. Civilian things, medical bits and bobs, towels, toilet paper.

[Greek] Any documents?

[Major] Yes. From an Indonesian student. From Thompson University [curses].

Third recording

[Male voice, identified as a fighter] Regarding the plane shot down in the area of Snezhnoye-Torez. It's a civilian one. Fell down near Grabovo. There are lots of corpses of women and children. The Cossacks are out there looking at all this.

They say on TV it's a Ukrainian AN-26 transport plane, but they say it's got Malaysia Airlines written on the plane. What was it doing in Ukrainian territory?

[Male voice, identified as Cossack commander Nikolai Kozitsyn] That means they were carrying spies. They shouldn't be [curses] flying. There is a war going on.

BBC Monitoring reports and analyses news from TV, radio, web and print media around the world. For more reports from BBC Monitoring, click here. You can follow BBC Monitoring on Twitter and Facebook."

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-28362872

Prison planet video questioning evidence

RMgIpC-bCfQ

[TargeT]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aKKoKmUtQXE&feature=youtu.be

Rebel fighter describing how Kiev regime tried unsuccessfully to lure the rebels into shooting down an airliner by mistake. Remember to switch on English subtitles.

Put subtitles on.

What a nice, clean, humanitarian terrorist with fresh nail polish and sexy wrist band ?


;)

and... her body language is ..... well it looks like they picked some universally attractive girl, tossed a cammo jacket on her and slung a ak47 around her neck and held up big cards with what to say on it.

I dunno.. seems like there'd be some emotion in that speech if it were true, or maybe some change in tone or movement etc....



That transcript is suspect. See the post from prison planet.

This makes sense.

[EYES WIDE OPEN]

That transcript is suspect. See the post from prison planet.

[jackovesk]

Here is an 'Example' of some good old Aussie MSM Spin...:pound:

Disclaimer: The tragic deaths of innocents aside...

Have a good-old listen to our (Dead-Stare :shocked:) Foreign Minister 'Julie Bishop' telling the Russians what to do...:pound:

http://i.ytimg.com/vi/VWBsPw8MtbQ/0.jpg


The Foreign Minister has issued a stark warning to Russia as it becomes increasingly clear that pro-Russian separatists in Ukraine are responsible for bringing down the jet.

Using language that is more direct than is custom in international relations, Ms Bishop made it clear Australia would use its position on the United Nations Security Council to push for an international investigation and warned Russia not to stand in the way.

http://www.news.com.au/travel/travel-updates/malaysia-airlines-plane-mh17-shot-down-on-ukrainerussia-border/story-fnizu68q-1226992889461

PS - Reminds me of something like this image...

http://www.all-creatures.org/stories/a-thecat.jpg

PSS - She'll be right Julie, if they attack us we'll be able to defend ourselves with all those 72 "DUD" Lockeed Martin (F-35 Joint Strike Fighters)...RATFLMAO...:pound:

http://marinesmagazine.dodlive.mil/files/2010/03/marines_F35_1.jpg

Yep, our Govt. has bought 14 of these (DUDS) and they were so impressed with them they are going to buy another 58 of them at a cost of $12.4 Billion...:faint:

Fkin bloody (Mind Boggling) hey...:noidea:

[Centauri]

Indeed. The majority seem to be normal citizens and not mercenaries or soldiers.


Since I'm not sure how to do this forum stuff, this is in response to Agape's comment "What a nice, clean, humanitarian terrorist with fresh nail polish and sexy wrist band ?"

[TargeT]

Indeed. The majority seem to be normal citizens and not mercenaries or soldiers.


Since I'm not sure how to do this forum stuff, this is in response to Agape's comment "What a nice, clean, humanitarian terrorist with fresh nail polish and sexy wrist band ?"

I'd send you a PM, but you might not get it ;)


read up here: "How to Tips" with Visuals for Links, Quotes, Images, etc. (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?66104-How-to-Tips-with-Visuals-for-Links-Quotes-Images-etc.)

[jackovesk]

Bedtime now...:sleep:

I'll leave you with an Aussie Classic...

Just replace the words "She's got the Jack" with "He's got the Box"...:thumb:

Or perhaps Vlad is singing about Foreign Minister Julie Bishop & Hitlary...:)

AC/DC - The Jack (Live At River Plate 2009)


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eVlRQn6AMYs

[Xanth]

I've been listening to and reading a lot of the UK mainstream media today, and the be honest I'm getting a little sick of it. Currently, nobody has any conclusive evidence yet many western leaders - US, Australia and various commentators are already calling for Putin's head on a plate. Over at zero hedge they've a piece which examines the Russian side of the story so far which is useful for anyone trying to get a balanced view of events.

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-07-18/final-moments-flight-mh-17-russian-side-story

[Cidersomerset]

When I saw this article a couple of days ago I thought
brace yourself.........It could be coincidence.....

VexU17zRPZo

Published on 15 Jul 2014


The emerging economies signed a long-anticipated document to create a $100
billion BRICS Development Bank. The institution will counter the influence of
Western lending firms as well as the dollar. DETAILS: http://on.rt.com/afyr6y

[Tesseract]

An acquaintance of mine is a former serviceman (active in 80s and 90s) who knows more about missiles - from launch, to tracking, to guidance and security than anyone else that I, at least, am ever likely to meet. He still works in a technical capacity, and is extremely good at what he does.

Today I asked him if someone who captured a missile system like this would be able to use it. The answer was an unambiguous 'No'. Training by experts would be required, and would take at least a couple of weeks. Even then, it is not a trivial task to actually score a hit on a plane, even an airliner, at 10 000 feet. These missiles generally need to be very accurately aimed (which involves tracking the target via radar, accounting for altitude, atmospheric conditions and so on) before they are fired to have any chance of hitting the target. Not that this person would have experience with a soviet system - a fact which should be borne in mind, but it was interesting to hear his comments. He also said that these older systems are even harder to learn how to use than modern systems.

I mention this because there are some claims going around that the eastern rebels captured a buk system, and that they therefore had the capability of shooting down a high altitude aircraft. Impossible, unless they happened to already know how to use the technology. I also note that the US has come out and said that Ukraine did not have any of these systems in the east (so, the US obviously does not back the claim that the rebels captured such a system, or they wouldn't have undermined that very claim by saying that there were no buk systems in the area for them to capture..).

Anyway, it looks like the statement by the US that Ukraine 'probably' had no such capability in eastern ukraine is incorrect, based on reports coming out now. In fact, it looks like Ukraine had the equipment, the training and the opportunity. Personally, I have not come to any conclusions - but, for all sorts of reasons, I am a long long way from being convinced that the rebels were behind this.

The co-incidence with Putin's plane is, for me, the most extraordinary aspect to this - assuming the story is indeed true. What are the odds? The odds of a random attack hitting a malaysian airlines flight are probably better than 1 in 100 (since there are only so many international airlines) - but the Putin coincidence is surely far more remarkable.

[Agape]

Indeed. The majority seem to be normal citizens and not mercenaries or soldiers.


Since I'm not sure how to do this forum stuff, this is in response to Agape's comment "What a nice, clean, humanitarian terrorist with fresh nail polish and sexy wrist band ?"

There are about 3 ways how to hit 'Reply' button, one is 'Reply with Quote' , the other is 'Reply' , the third is 'Quick post' .

You can also 'Preview Post' before you hit 'Submit Reply' . And then explore all the fancy buttons above the reply window , they all have some special purposes . It's easy if you try .

You can always preview or edit your post if you don't like the result .


Sorry I was sarcastic . It just does not add up for me too well , considering how many real soldiers are there, guarding the heavy artillery , hiding elsewhere ..they have to else there would not be so many fights ,
and they dress up this 'someones daughter' , put rifle around her neck and tell her what to say and that they're innocent citizens defending their city who thought there's jet hiding behind the civilian airplane .

Even if it's all true . I think the UNO should speak to her , first of all , while the artillery will be hidden in those basements .
She says they're drinking water from the fountain, with pigeons ... hmmmm


:angel::o

[SilentFeathers]

This is a really "strange" story....


Rebel leader gives bizarre account of plane crash (http://www.montereyherald.com/world/ci_26173524/rebel-suggests-malaysia-plane-victims-long-dead)

A top pro-Russia rebel commander in eastern Ukraine has given a bizarre version of events surrounding the Malaysian jetliner crash — suggesting many of the victims may have died days before the plane took off.

The pro-rebel website Russkaya Vesna on Friday quoted Igor Girkin as saying he was told by people at the crash site that "a significant number of the bodies weren't fresh," adding that he was told they were drained of blood and reeked of decomposition.

Girkin said "Ukrainian authorities are capable of any baseness."

He claimed that a large amount of blood serum and medications were found in the wreckage.

[ParakeetMGP]

When the news broke out 27 Hours from now, showing the crash site. Things didn't look right. Wasn't it like around 8 to 9 PM? That would be Sunset time, not in the middle of the Afternoon with the Sun straight overhead. It would have a twilighted sky. A mushroom cloud just coming up from the ground? Should had been scattered streams of smoke then one mushroom cloud. A pile of Passports? No way? I am assuming MH370 was Drone like hijacked and this 777 might had the same thing, with this crash being a Decoy. I think someone is stealing the planes for some other use in the Future (?)

[Tesseract]

On difficulty in using the system:


US representative to the UN, Samantha Power, told an emergency session of the Security Council the Malaysia Airlines jet was likely shot down by a SA-11 Buk missile.

"Because of the technical complexity of the SA-11, it is unlikely that the separatists could effectively operate the system without assistance from knowledgeable personnel," she said.

"Thus we cannot rule out technical assistance from Russian personnel in operating the systems.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-07-19/ukraine-government-says-missile-expert-arrested-near-border/5608744

[jerry]

Ukraine's evidence appears fabricated to frame Russia on jetliner shootdown
RMgIpC-bCfQUbtMsoVAdqQ

[TargeT]

"Thus we cannot rule out technical assistance from Russian personnel in operating the systems."

US forces IMO..... doing what we do best, spreading hate and discontent to the whole world! this is the job of our Special Forces ("force multiplier".... aka future terrorist training specialists)

[Centauri]

Thanks Target and Agape. I was not trying, in retrospect. My outrage concerning the direction this national narrative has taken blinded me to exploring the little icons. I'll get my forum efficiency badge soon!
I don't want to derail this thread so back to the topic at hand.

[Cidersomerset]

Update from Davids site...


Spanish Air Controller @ Kiev Borispol Airport: Ukraine Military Shot Down Malaysian Boeing

new Friday 18th July 2014 at 18:08 By david-icke



FLASH UPDATE: Industry Outlet Confirms Carlos (@spainbuca) as ATC at Borispol in Kiev

http://www.davidicke.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/false-flag-warning.jpg

‘There was an unexplained change of course of the Malaysian MH17 flight which took the aircraft
directly over the Eastern Ukraine warzone.

The Spanish air controller confirms a conflict between the Ministry of Defense and the Ministry of
the Interior intimating that the order concerning the downing of the aircraft came from the Ministry
of the Interior, which is dominated by Svoboda and Right Sector.

He also said that the MH17 flight was escorted by Ukrainian fighter jets minutes before it was downed.
It is worth noting that the presence of the Ukraine fighter jets reported by the Spanish air traffic
controller was confirmed by eyewitness reports in the Donetsk region:

“eyewitnesses in the Donetsk region saw Ukrainian warplanes near the passenger jet. They say they
heard sounds of powerful blasts and saw a Ukraine warplane shortly before the crash. (ITAR Tass)’

Read more: Spanish Air Controller @ Kiev Borispol Airport: Ukraine Military Shot Down Boeing

http://slavyangrad.wordpress.com/2014/07/18/spanish-air-controller-kiev-borispol-airport-ukraine-military-shot-down-boeing-mh17/

==========================================================


http://www.eturbonews.com/themes/etn_v2/images/logo.jpg


Ukraine air traffic controller suggests Kiev military shot down passenger plane

http://www.davidicke.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/My11.jpg

‘This Kiev air traffic controller is a citizen of Spain and was working in the Ukraine. He was
taken off duty as a civil air-traffic controller along with other foreigners immediately after a
Malaysia Airlines passenger aircraft was shot down over the Eastern Ukraine killing 295
passengers and crew on board.

The air traffic controller suggested in a private evaluation and basing it on military sources
in Kiev, that the Ukrainian military was behind this shoot down. Radar records were
immediately confiscated after it became clear a passenger jet was shot down.’

Read more …

http://www.eturbonews.com/48079/ukraine-air-traffic-controller-suggests-kiev-military-shot-down-
==========================================================


http://s3.reutersmedia.net/resources_v2/images/masthead-logo.gif

Malaysia Airlines says requested higher flight plan

‘Malaysia Airlines filed a flight plan requesting to fly at 35,000 feet throughout
Ukraine airspace but was instructed by Ukraine air traffic control to fly at 33,000
feet upon entry, it said in a statement late on Friday.

“MH17 filed a flight plan requesting to fly at 35,000 feet throughout Ukrainian
airspace. This is close to the ‘optimum’ altitude,” the airline said.’

"However, an aircraft's altitude in flight is determined by air traffic control on the
ground. Upon entering Ukrainian airspace, MH17 was instructed by Ukrainian air traffic control to fly at 33,000 feet."

Malaysian Airlines flight MH17 from Amsterdam to Kuala Lumpur was downed in
Ukraine on Thursday.


(Reporting by Al-Zaquan Amer Hamzah; Editing by Robert Birsel)



Read more …

http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/07/18/us-ukraine-crisis-flightplan-idUSKBN0FN1HR20140718

[Cidersomerset]

continued....

https://store.globalresearch.ca/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/logo_store.png

Was Ukraine’s Ministry of Interior behind the Downing of Malaysian Airlines MH17?

http://www.davidicke.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/539px-Buk-M1-2_9A310M1-2.jpg

‘A division of Buk missile systems of the Ukrainian Armed Forces was, according to Pravda deployed
to the Donetsk Oblast on July 15, two days before the downing of the Malaysian airlines MH17 flight.
The Buk missile system has the capabilities of downing an aircraft flying at 35,000 feet.

While the Pravda report remains to be confirmed, Russian Defense sources confirms the presence of
several missile batteries in the Donesk oblast operated by the Ukraine armed forces …

… Of significance, the Prosecutor General of Ukraine Vitaliy Yarema confirmed that the Donesk rebels
do not have Buk or S 300 ground to air missiles which could have downed the plane.’

Read more …

http://www.globalresearch.ca/was-ukraines-ministry-of-interior-behind-the-downing-of-malaysian-airlines-mh17/5391909
========================================================

Ukrainian Army with Surface to Air missiles near Donetsk on July 5th (see 0:50)

‘Here is a video from a few days ago showing UKR Army in the region in possession of SAM BUK.
They have been going crazy suggesting that Russian planes have crossed the border in the recent
days and were working hard to shoot it down – a fact. ‘

U2eGNPJlkMo



John McCain Says Ukraine Does Not Have Buk Missile Systems (See above post) and Unveils True
Motive For Shooting MH-17 To Escalate War With Russia

-V53xoum3AM



Are they wagging the dog?


0XOnCckiYlk

‘If this was a mid-air missile strike, quick question: where is the smoke? Any
smoke? From the missile? From the strike? From the plane? Left in the air?
Anything…?

Also, what is this guy doing walking around the fresh crash site with a handful of
intact, unscathed passports that look brand spanking new? That video was only
played on loop for B roll on all major news networks repeatedly all day…

Or here’s a conspiracy theory for you: What if the missing Malaysian plane from
march (MH370) somehow is the one that was “shot down” over Ukraine today in
some Jerry Bruckheimeresque 24-hour news cycle stage show to dazzle the masses
into believing the official story?’

Read more …

http://truthstreammedia.com/are-they-wagging-the-dog/

http://www.davidicke.com/headlines/

[Xanth]

Now it looks like the Ukrainian air traffic controller recording with MH17 has gone missing ...

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-07-18/ukraines-security-service-has-confiscated-air-traffic-control-recordings-malaysian-j

Earlier, when we commented in the abnormality in the flight path of flight MH-17 we said that "perhaps before coming to "certain" conclusion about the involvement of this rebel or that, the key questions one should ask before casting blame, is why did the pilot divert from his usual flight plan, why did he fly above restricted airspace, and just what, if any instructions, did Kiev air control give the pilot in the minutes before the tragic explosion?"

The simple answer would have come if Ukraine had merely released the Air Traffic Control recording from the tower and flight MH 17, something Malaysia did in the aftermath of the disappearance of flight MH 370, which at last check has still not been uncovered.

It now appears that answer will not be forthcoming because as the BBC reports "Ukraine's SBU security service has confiscated recordings of conversations between Ukrainian air traffic control officers and the crew of the doomed airliner, a source in Kiev has told Interfax news agency."

What happens to the recordings next is completely unknown. What is known is that any hope of getting an undoctored explanation why the plane flew as it did, or what the pilots may have seen or said in the moments before the explosion, is forever gone.

It also means that any hope of actually working with facts instead of emotional appeals, and getting to the bottom of the Malaysian airline tragedy, resides in what may be recorded by the black box, whose location right now is now exactly clear. From the Independent:

"Ukraine's emergency services have found two black boxes at the crash site of the downed Malaysia Airlines flight MH17, the governor of eastern Ukraine's Donetsk region has been quoted as saying.

"Two black boxes were found by our emergency services. I have no information on where these boxes are at the moment," Kostyantyn Batovsky told the Interfax-Ukraine news agency.

Pro-Russian separatists in the region said on Thursday they had found one black box when the Malaysian airliner came down between Krasni Luch in Luhansk region and Shakhtarsk in the neighbouring region of Donetsk.

The Interfax-Ukraine news agency had claimed the first black box has been sent to Moscow for analysis, the BBC reported. The news agency now reports a second black box has been recovered at the crash site.

Russia's Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov has been quoted as saying Russia does not plan to take the "black box" flight recorders from downed Malaysia Airlines flight MH17 in territory held by pro-Russian separatists in eastern Ukraine,

However, separatist leader Aleksandr Borodai told the Associated Press: "No black boxes have been found ... We hope that experts will track them down and create a picture of what has happened."

A spokesman for the Emergencies Ministry in Kiev declined to comment on the report.

In other words, even more fact-free confusion and speculation which is just what a propaganda-based reporting system needs.

And so, just like in the case of flight MH-370, what actually happened with MH-17 may never be known.

[TargeT]

We should actually wait using language and terms while there are no hard facts justifying them.
Like talking about the plane is 'shot down' and yet there is no evidence for that so far.


the lack of critical thinking on this topic is a good litmus test for "where we are" as a people....

(so let me join in!)

Unless I'm missing something (VERY VERY likely) This entire situation may have just been a test of the current psycology... this could just be a "test run" to see how gullable we are before other actions are taken.

Ok, so.... We have seen this before, and the publicity behind it... I dunno this stinks a little to me (though it needs to get more media play before it triggers red flags for me)


Russia Today London correspondent resigns in protest at 'disrespect for facts' over Malaysian plane crash
A Russia Today reporter based in London has resigned with immediate effect in protest at the station’s coverage of yesterday’s plane crash in Ukraine.

Sara Firth had worked at Russia Today for five years, joining the Russian government-funded station in Moscow straight after doing an MA in journalism at City University in London. She has since been posted in London.

Firth described the Malaysia Airlines flight crash coverage as “the straw that broke the camel’s back for me” and handed in her resignation this morning.

Russia Today has been criticised for suggesting the crash is the fault of Ukraine. Most other media outlets have suggested that a more likely explanation is that pro-Russian separatists were responsible for shooting down the passenger jet. So far it is estimated that around 300 people died in the crash.

“Yesterday when the story broke you get the kick in your stomach when you’re going to get the facts and it’s this huge story,” she told Press Gazette.

“And I walked into the newsroom and they were running an eye-witness account of God-knows who the person was blaming the Ukrainian government, and it is such a volatile situation.”

Firth, who told Press Gazette in an interview in 2012 that facts are her “religion”, said: “I said it then, if I was asked to burn the facts and not tell the truth I’d be a goner, and so I’m gone...

“And it’s the level of disrespect for the facts that really bugs me.

“And so I made my decision yesterday when we started covering the story and this morning woke up and I just knew that I can’t go back in any more.”

She added: “The thing is once I made the decision, you have to be honest with yourself and it’s so difficult.... Once you start telling the truth it’s brutal.”

In response to her resignation, a Russia Today spokesperson said that the channel and Firth "apparently... have different definitions of truth".

Firth told Press Gazette: “They believe that fully, definitions of the truth. There you go, that’s RT. What can you say?”

Firth said that rule one of the Russia Today style guide is to blame Ukraine, or anything else, rather than Russia. “It’s scary that it’s genuine RT guidance on how to do a story, and you have to believe it to succeed there. You stop believing that what they say is the way it is and you stop being useful to them...

“It’s not a nice organisation either.”

A Russia Today spokesperson said: "We were not surprised by Sara Firth’s decision to leave RT after 5 years as a Moscow and London correspondent, as she has recently informed us that she was likely to take an offer from another firm.

"The plane crash is an absolutely terrible tragedy, there are a lot of questions that surround it and everybody is looking for answers. More than 15 RT journalists are working on this story – from Moscow, from the Russian-Ukrainian border, London, Berlin, Washington. RT Spanish journalist Francisco Guaita was one of the first TV correspondents to get to the scene late last night; our reporters are in Netherlands and in Malaysia.

"Sara has declared that she chooses the truth; apparently we have different definitions of truth. We believe that truth is what our reporters see on the ground, with their own eyes, and not what’s printed in the morning London newspaper. In our coverage, RT, unlike the rest of the media, did not draw conclusions before the official investigation has even begun. We show all sides of the story, even if everyone else has already decided which side is to blame."


http://www.pressgazette.co.uk/russia-today-london-correspondent-resigns-protest-disrespect-facts-over-malaysian-plane-crash

[Tesseract]

26388

Alleged view of inside a buk. Hard to believe anyone could teach themselves how to use this on short notice.

I should probably add, that I was amazed that in the very first article I read on this incident, just a few hours after the act, the missile system was already identified as a buk. Of course, we still do not know this for certain.

[Selene]

This is a really "strange" story....


Rebel leader gives bizarre account of plane crash (http://www.montereyherald.com/world/ci_26173524/rebel-suggests-malaysia-plane-victims-long-dead)

A top pro-Russia rebel commander in eastern Ukraine has given a bizarre version of events surrounding the Malaysian jetliner crash — suggesting many of the victims may have died days before the plane took off.

The pro-rebel website Russkaya Vesna on Friday quoted Igor Girkin as saying he was told by people at the crash site that "a significant number of the bodies weren't fresh," adding that he was told they were drained of blood and reeked of decomposition.

Girkin said "Ukrainian authorities are capable of any baseness."

He claimed that a large amount of blood serum and medications were found in the wreckage.


Per the odd condition (if true) of some of the bodies, maybe something happens under rapid decompression or explosion? Also consider that 100+ of the world's top AIDS researchers were lost on that flight, on their way to a major AIDS conference. It's sadly possible that some of the other people headed to the conference were indeed already very, very ill, with unknown effect here. When my husband was invited to speak at an AIDS research conference some years ago, he noted that many people in the audience were visibly afflicted themselves; indeed, they asked some of the most knowledgeable questions.

But the blood serums and meds: It's conceivable that the researchers could have been carrying large quantities of blood samples, meds etc for distribution to other researchers at that conference.

Just a thought.

Regards,

Selene

[Hervé]

...

"Shot down by missile!"


Well... since it's been trumpeted all around on all sorts of media, the appropriate response should be to spike one's coffee or tea with a double dose of discernment... since, as a matter of fact, such a claim is not backed up by any evidence but hearsay.

What is not trumpeted around are the jet fighters seen from ground and on the control tower radar screens... with all control tower personnel removed and replaced while their tweets were deleted.

Then there are these contradicting facts: pilot found harnessed to his seat at the crash site but Malaysian airlines reports no distress calls received...

Then there is that report about those bloodless bodies (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?73055-Malaysian-Plane-Crashes-With-295-On-Board-Ukrainian-adviser-claims-the-plane-was-shot-down&p=854982&viewfull=1#post854982)... I must say that, that was my very reaction when seeing those bodies on the live Russian live stream: no blood and the bodies looked like inflatable dolls with "porcelain" skin. That is, something's not right at that site.

So here is a comment which compiles some of those pegs that don't fit anywhere:


Reader Comment (http://www.sott.net/article/282125-Malaysian-Airlines-flight-MH17-downed-over-warzone-Ukraine-Who-was-behind-it-Cui-Bono#comment107533)

http://www.sott.net/avatar/image/625/thumb/_eyes2.jpg (http://www.sott.net/user/6057-SAJ) By: SAJ (http://www.sott.net/user/6057-SAJ)

Someone deliberately rerouted this plane [Link (http://www.businessinsider.com/mh17-map-2014-7)] "A source in Russia's federal air traffic agency Rosaviatsia has said that three days ago Ukraine’s National Security and Defense Council closed the airspace over eastern Ukraine because of the so-called “anti-terrorist operation” that Kiev conducts in the region." [Link (http://rt.com/news/173652-fights-avoid-ukrain-malaysian/)]

2 Ukrainian fighters seen following Malaysian jet minutes before crash [Link (http://en.itar-tass.com/russia/741248)] "Two Ukrainian fighters were following the passenger Boeing-777 of Malaysian Airlines several minutes before the crash, Russia’s television Channel One said on Friday, citing a tweet made a Spanish air traffic controller of Kiev’s airport Borispol.

According to the Spanish air traffic controller, two Ukrainian fighters had been seen near the Malaysian jet three minutes before it disappeared from radars.

This information is confirmed by eyewitnesses in the Donetsk region who saw Ukrainian warplanes near the passenger jet. They say they heard sounds of powerful blasts and saw a Ukraine warplane shortly before the crash."

Crashed Boeing dispatcher: two Ukrainian military jets near jet before it crashed [Link (http://actualidad.rt.com/actualidad/view/134299-controlador-trafico-aereo-buelo-mh17-escoltado-cazas-ucranianos)]

Ukraine air traffic controller suggests Kiev military shot down passenger plane [Link (http://www.eturbonews.com/48079/ukraine-air-traffic-controller-suggests-kiev-military-shot-down-)]
"ETN received information from an air traffic controller in Kiev on Malaysia Airlines flight MH17....

The air traffic controller suggested in a private evaluation and basing it on military sources in Kiev, that the Ukrainian military was behind this shoot down. Radar records were immediately confiscated after it became clear a passenger jet was shot down.
Military air traffic controllers in internal communication acknowledged the military was involved, and some military chatter said they did not know where the order to shoot down the plane originated from.

Obviously it happened after a series of errors, since the very same plane was escorted by two Ukrainian fighter jets until 3 minutes before it disappeared from radar.

Radar screen shots also show an unexplained change of course of the Malaysian Boeing. The change of course took the aircraft directly over the Eastern Ukraine conflict region." [...]

Reports that Putin flew similar route as MH17, presidential airport says 'hasn't overflown Ukraine for long time' [Link (http://rt.com/news/173672-malaysia-plane-crash-putin/)]

"I can say that Putin’s plane and the Malaysian Boeing intersected at the same point and the same echelon. That was close to Warsaw on 330-m echelon at the height of 10,100 meters. The presidential jet was there at 16:21 Moscow time and the Malaysian aircraft - 15:44 Moscow time,” a source told the news agency on condition of anonymity.

"The contours of the aircrafts are similar, linear dimensions are also very similar, as for the coloring, at a quite remote distance they are almost identical", the source added" [...]

Russian radars record active operation of Ukrainian air defense [Link (http://english.pravda.ru/news/russia/18-07-2014/128081-ukrainian_air_defense_boeing-0/)]

Ukrainian Buk battery radar was operational when Malaysian plane downed - Moscow [Link (http://rt.com/news/173784-ukraine-plane-malaysian-russia/)]

Ukraine’s anti-aircraft missile system dispatched to Donetsk Wednesday [Link (http://en.itar-tass.com/world/741173)]

Igor Gunmen: Part of the Boeing people died a few days before the disaster [Link (http://rusvesna.su/news/1405676334)]
"According to the people who collected the bodies, most of corpses -" stale "- people have died and several days ago. For complete accuracy of this information can not vouch - of course, you need forensic conclusion.. not all people on the plane were dead before the fall.

Secondly, the plane was discovered a large quantity of drugs, blood serum and other things, which is not typical for conventional liner. It seems that there was a medical special-load.

Third, no not insisting on anything (yet). Literally just now talked to two people personally collected the bodies immediately after the fall (both - of Shakhtersk and arrived at the scene in less than half an hour after the accident). With their words and write. They stressed that many corpses were "entirely bloodless" - as if the blood curled long before the disaster. Also noted the strongest and putrid smell, marked by many locals - this odor in any weather for half an hour could not be formed, and the weather was overcast yesterday, not too hot."

Prominent HIV researcher Joep Lange was among the victims of flight MH17 [Link (http://www.vox.com/2014/7/17/5914093/prominent-hiv-researcher-dead-on-malaysia-airlines-flight-mh17-AIDS-2014)]

Crash claims 100 top AIDS researchers heading to Melbourne [Link (http://www.smh.com.au/national/crash-claims-top-aids-researchers-heading-to-melbourne-20140718-zuaw3.html)]

Overflights over the South-East suspended Jul 15 2014 [Link (http://translate.yandex.net/tr-url/ru-en.en/voicesevas.ru/news/yugo-vostok/2862-polety-aviacii-hunty-nad-yugo-vostokom-priostanovleny.html)]

Malaysia strongly condemns Israeli aggression in Gaza [Link (http://www.thesundaily.my/news/1115491)]

Flashback - Are the Israelis Planning Another False Flag Using the Missing Boeing 777? [Link (http://www.bollyn.com/are-the-israelis-planning-another-9-11-using-the-missing-777/)]

(Perfectly Timed) Strong empirical evidence Israel shot down plane [Link (http://www.jimstonefreelance.com/)]

Plane shoot down: approximately 14:15 UTC. Israeli assault on Gaza: 14:00 UTC. See a connection there? And when you consider the fact that it took time to confirm the downing, the two times actually match even more closely. Israel's assault on Gaza is viewed badly by the world community, what better way to bury it in the news than a plane shoot down, complete with the threat of a war with Russia?

Israel uses Schipol Airport for drug and gun running and moving their agents in and out of Europe as well as false flags. [Link (http://www.sott.net/article/202285-Underwear-Bomber-Redux-Was-Mutallab-An-Israeli-Secret-Weapon)]

(Laying the groundwork) MH-17: An exercise in foregone conclusions? [Link (http://pennyforyourthoughts2.blogspot.ca/2014/07/mh-17-exercise-in-foregone-conclusions.html)] [Link (http://pennyforyourthoughts2.blogspot.ca/2014/07/breaking-malaysian-passenger-plane.html)]
"This past week we have been treated to a narrative that has informed us all that the anti-fascist rebels allegedly have the means to take down airplanes at high altitudes. Alone or with the help of their claimed interchangeable partner- Russia. This narrative, repeated and reinforced has never been substantiated.... no evidence given by the Kiev fascists. Just unsubstantiated claims. Or as I am proposing the creation of a narrative.

That goes something like this.........

Anti fascists or Russia, interchangeable, for this narrative.( Interchangeable for all propaganda purposes according to Kiev, the Obama administration, NATO and NATO media etc.???)

Getting back to the narrative being created all this week

*Anti fascists fighters /rebels aided by Russia have been shooting down planes flying at high altitude.

*Therefore these same groups/partners shot down the Malaysian plane" [...]

Fri, 18 Jul 2014 13:25 CDT