Spiritual Evolution and Veganism: a New Argument

[Robin]

I know most of you are rolling your eyes after reading the title of this thread, as the veganism debate has been argued countless times in countless different ways already. BUT, I have a new argument that I would like others to explore and critique.

Everybody has the right to put whatever they want in their own bodies. Also, everybody has the right to perform an action, so long as it does not harm another person.

We all share the same goal of evolving spiritually on the way to enlightenment into oneness, but we all take different paths. It takes some souls hundreds of lifetimes to learn the necessary lessons, and it takes some souls very few. Sometimes the slower path is intentional, and both routes lead to the same destination.

But the soul should ask itself: why would I desire to delay evolving spiritually? Shouldn't I take the quickest route possible?

Here is my argument from a biological point of view:

Carnivores, such as lions and wolves, spend much of their time hunting. They are constantly on the run, as they need to keep up with their migrating prey. If they fail to make a catch, then they starve. Their minds are constantly focused on the future, as they need to worry about what will be their next meal.

Herbivores, such as zebras and deer, spend much of their time grazing. They are constantly eating and keeping their eyes and ears peeled for predators. Their minds are mostly focused on the present, as they need to be vigilant about predators and need to graze.

Carnivores live in a reality based on scarcity. Because there is a very limited amount of prey, and they need to exert a lot of energy to catch the prey, it is safe to make the point that carnivores have a much harder life than herbivores.

Herbivores live in a reality based on abundance. Because there is a plethora of food growing from the earth, and they do not have to exert much energy in acquiring nutrition, it is safe to say that herbivores live a much less physically-demanding lifestyle.

Additionally, carnivores and omnivores are much more prone to acquiring deadly diseases. Because harmful bacteria is attracted to decaying flesh, many carnivores die early due to infections and bacterial diseases. Not to mention heart disease being such a large killer in adult humans...because of a meat-based diet.

Just look at the example of the cartoon Wile. E. Coyote and Roadrunner. For those not familiar with the cartoon, the coyote character spends countless (humorous) ways to catch the roadrunner character, but the coyote always fails. He is constantly in anxiety and always gets hurt, ending the episode starving. In other words, the coyote is stuck in a never-ending cycle where there is no introspection or growth. To me this is a perfect representation of my argument. Coyotes in reality live pretty miserable lives, from an objective standpoint. They are constantly on the run for food, hunt at night in extreme temperatures and rugged terrain, and don't have much time for introspection or play:


26510

The Powers that Be want to keep the masses of people in a survival-of-the-fittest mentality based on scarcity. Because there is always a lack of money, and because we run our economies on non-renewable resources, we are constantly being filled with anxiety. Because of lengthy work days and a lack of money, most people do not have time (or do not allocate time properly) to devote to proper spiritual development. This is exactly how the PTB want us, because they are afraid that we will evolve spiritually.

In reality, we live in a universe of abundance, with the capability of having free energy that will allow us to thrive. But the PTB do not want this...

Going back to my veganism argument...I will make the claim that eating animals is a hindrance to spiritual development at some point in soul development. I say this with confidence because the proof is in the animal kingdom. Lions, wolves, and other carnivores do not enjoy as much "free time" as herbivores. Because they are constantly on the hunt and thinking about the future, they do not have the time to look inwards and grow spiritually. This is exactly how the masses of people on this planet are being kept.

Herbivores, on the other hand, have so much more free time because they live in a world of abundance where food is always all around them (for the most part). Because of this abundance, they have a lot of free time to spend cooperating with one another, taking care of one another, and looking inwards. This self-reflection allows them to live a lifestyle that is much more "enlightening."

I know that there are many omnivore members who are up to this point very upset at what I'm writing. There is no doubt that all the omnivore members on Avalon have a high awareness and are very spiritually mature. I am not doubting this at all. What I am saying is that although spiritual growth can be achieved with an omnivore diet, I feel that eventually it will be a hindrance.

The Draco reptilians, for instance, are a race grounded in the lower 4th density, according to many independent sources. They are an ancient race that has not changed in a long time, as they believe they have reached the pinnacle of evolution. If this is true...why are they only in the lower 4th density when there are beings who are in higher densities...?

Is it because their meat-based diets (including humans being on the menu) are preventing them from evolving past the lower 4th density? Are the meat-based diets causing aspects of their psyche to be grounded in a mentality that is hindering their spiritual development?

I have read much witness testimonial saying that there are many E.T. races that eat meat, but most are vegans. A race that consumes meat does not have to necessarily be a service-to-self orientation or a manipulator race, but it just may be possible that at some point in the evolution of the soul, eating animals does hinder its development.

[Omni]

The blond ET contacts I have that said they were vegans told me it does have something to do with evolution. What exactly it does, was not specified. I do not personally believe in the density stuff though. So if they have evolved to the apex, that's basically it for them IMHO..

[ghostrider]

Some Et's say the best food for earth humans is grapes , apples and most juices ... basically fruits ... they put an emphasis on grapes and apples ... for what it is worth ... it's my personal opinion that too much meat lowers the bodies vibration but , do what works for you ...

[kirolak]

Never mind what veganism can do for "YOU" - what can it do for OTHERS, the non-human species known to us as "animals". . . . it can change their lives from a living hell:wizard:

[Demeisen]

There is the never ending battle for correct diet. What you should eat and what not?
There are many diets that include lots of meat and fats, like paleo, low carb, etc.. and are apparently very health promoting. The problem I see with veganism is the high intake of sugar or starch (=carbs), which is what you should avoid. For example, the grapes are a real sugar-bomb. I'm sure many will say that the sugar in fruits is not the same as the white sugar. But the fact is, it is sugar/carbs and it may cause harm, especially if you have problems with blood sugar levels. So they are not for everyone.
Many present studies have indicated that carbs are the cause number 1 for obesity, diabetes, heart diseases, etc...
I don't mean to argue with Samwisethebrave whether it is a hindrance for us to eat meat, or not. Personally, I think it is certainly true when you reach high enough spiritual state. But in my opinion fully vegan diet simply would not work for all of us. And it has nothing to with persons own will. Our bodies are not the same. Is that an indicator of persons spiritual evolution, I don't know.

[sirdipswitch]

I can't survive without my Donuts and Cookies. ccc.:wizard:

[Daphne]

I know most of you are rolling your eyes after reading the title of this thread, as the veganism debate has been argued countless times in countless different ways already. BUT, I have a new argument that I would like others to explore and critique.

Everybody has the right to put whatever they want in their own bodies. Also, everybody has the right to perform an action, so long as it does not harm another person.

We all share the same goal of evolving spiritually on the way to enlightenment into oneness, but we all take different paths. It takes some souls hundreds of lifetimes to learn the necessary lessons, and it takes some souls very few. Sometimes the slower path is intentional, and both routes lead to the same destination.

But the soul should ask itself: why would I desire to delay evolving spiritually? Shouldn't I take the quickest route possible?

Here is my argument from a biological point of view:

Carnivores, such as lions and wolves, spend much of their time hunting. They are constantly on the run, as they need to keep up with their migrating prey. If they fail to make a catch, then they starve. Their minds are constantly focused on the future, as they need to worry about what will be their next meal.

Herbivores, such as zebras and deer, spend much of their time grazing. They are constantly eating and keeping their eyes and ears peeled for predators. Their minds are mostly focused on the present, as they need to be vigilant about predators and need to graze.

Carnivores live in a reality based on scarcity. Because there is a very limited amount of prey, and they need to exert a lot of energy to catch the prey, it is safe to make the point that carnivores have a much harder life than herbivores.

Herbivores live in a reality based on abundance. Because there is a plethora of food growing from the earth, and they do not have to exert much energy in acquiring nutrition, it is safe to say that herbivores live a much less physically-demanding lifestyle.

Additionally, carnivores and omnivores are much more prone to acquiring deadly diseases. Because harmful bacteria is attracted to decaying flesh, many carnivores die early due to infections and bacterial diseases. Not to mention heart disease being such a large killer in adult humans...because of a meat-based diet.

Just look at the example of the cartoon Wile. E. Coyote and Roadrunner. For those not familiar with the cartoon, the coyote character spends countless (humorous) ways to catch the roadrunner character, but the coyote always fails. He is constantly in anxiety and always gets hurt, ending the episode starving. In other words, the coyote is stuck in a never-ending cycle where there is no introspection or growth. To me this is a perfect representation of my argument. Coyotes in reality live pretty miserable lives, from an objective standpoint. They are constantly on the run for food, hunt at night in extreme temperatures and rugged terrain, and don't have much time for introspection or play:


26510

The Powers that Be want to keep the masses of people in a survival-of-the-fittest mentality based on scarcity. Because there is always a lack of money, and because we run our economies on non-renewable resources, we are constantly being filled with anxiety. Because of lengthy work days and a lack of money, most people do not have time (or do not allocate time properly) to devote to proper spiritual development. This is exactly how the PTB want us, because they are afraid that we will evolve spiritually.

In reality, we live in a universe of abundance, with the capability of having free energy that will allow us to thrive. But the PTB do not want this...

Going back to my veganism argument...I will make the claim that eating animals is a hindrance to spiritual development at some point in soul development. I say this with confidence because the proof is in the animal kingdom. Lions, wolves, and other carnivores do not enjoy as much "free time" as herbivores. Because they are constantly on the hunt and thinking about the future, they do not have the time to look inwards and grow spiritually. This is exactly how the masses of people on this planet are being kept.

Herbivores, on the other hand, have so much more free time because they live in a world of abundance where food is always all around them (for the most part). Because of this abundance, they have a lot of free time to spend cooperating with one another, taking care of one another, and looking inwards. This self-reflection allows them to live a lifestyle that is much more "enlightening."

I know that there are many omnivore members who are up to this point very upset at what I'm writing. There is no doubt that all the omnivore members on Avalon have a high awareness and are very spiritually mature. I am not doubting this at all. What I am saying is that although spiritual growth can be achieved with an omnivore diet, I feel that eventually it will be a hindrance.

The Draco reptilians, for instance, are a race grounded in the lower 4th density, according to many independent sources. They are an ancient race that has not changed in a long time, as they believe they have reached the pinnacle of evolution. If this is true...why are they only in the lower 4th density when there are beings who are in higher densities...?

Is it because their meat-based diets (including humans being on the menu) are preventing them from evolving past the lower 4th density? Are the meat-based diets causing aspects of their psyche to be grounded in a mentality that is hindering their spiritual development?

I have read much witness testimonial saying that there are many E.T. races that eat meat, but most are vegans. A race that consumes meat does not have to necessarily be a service-to-self orientation or a manipulator race, but it just may be possible that at some point in the evolution of the soul, eating animals does hinder its development.

Less than a year ago I would not have bothered reading this post. I have never felt compelled to become a vegetarian and had always been a big fan of steaks on the grill almost daily it seems. Something happened in what I can say is a spiritual evolutionary change in me over the last several months. I have a strong aversion to most meat.

In my opinion, it can only be a spiritual shifting because I have toyed with the idea of becoming a vegetarian over the past 30 years from time to time only on the basis of the health benefits, but have never been able to sustain it. Now it's completely effortless.
Thanks for,your post Samwise the Brave.

[Pam]

Never mind what veganism can do for "YOU" - what can it do for OTHERS, the non-human species known to us as "animals". . . . it can change their lives from a living hell:wizard:



Thank you kirolak. I am growing weary of statements like this;"everybody has the right to perform an action, so long as it does not harm another person". As though humans are the only thing that matters and everything and all other creatures are merely props in the tawdry human drama. I wonder how anyone could hope to evolve spiritually with such a viewpoint.

[Sunny-side-up]

kirolak
Default Re: Spiritual Evolution and Veganism: a New Argument
Never mind what veganism can do for "YOU" - what can it do for OTHERS, the non-human species known to us as "animals". . . . it can change their lives from a living hell





Never mind what veganism can do for "YOU" - what can it do for OTHERS, the non-human species known to us as "animals". . . . it can change their lives from a living hell:wizard:

Thank you kirolak. I am growing weary of statements like this;"everybody has the right to perform an action, so long as it does not harm another person". As though humans are the only thing that matters and everything and all other creatures are merely props in the tawdry human drama. I wonder how anyone could hope to evolve spiritually with such a viewpoint.

The killing and eating of other animals has never seemed right to me.
I have always considered it a PRIMITIVE thing to do and not evolved in any way!

I have heard 'Santos Bonacci' talk about food and the eating of meat, He said something like 'Eating meat is just eating POOP! eating plant matter is eating the full spectrum of vibrant energies!

When most people say they eat meat (Other animals) with out no spiritual problems, most of them have not actually killed and prepared this meat! If they had to kill and prepare the meat them selves, well! I would guess a big percentage would become vegans!
So most meat eaters think it's ok to pass on (Turn a blind eye) such acts as Killing and preparing the meat onto some one else!
That basically is the pinnacle of getting someone to do your dirty work for you ha!

Plus to most people in the so called civilized world, eating meat to live is not the only readily available option any more!

So I think getting out of the kill to eat cycle of this life is very important action towards becoming karmic and spiritually cleaner/stronger!

If you think about our lives is it relay about being physically healthy/strong to the degrees we go to.

I was very thin back when i was a vegan but! I had much more actual physical strength. I called this condition 'Working Strength' and it was far more attuned to the spiritual energies!
I was a 'Lean mean fighting (Spiritual) machine' not a grounded 'muscle tank'

Controversially speaking, and i'm not recommending this at all but! to be physically weak puts you vertically on the verge of death, which really connects you to the spiritual energies we all say we desire! Hmm?

It is possible to live very long life in this condition, just look at most true mystics! (just skin and bones as my dear old mom would have said!) and I think most of them are Vegans yes?

If you carry excess fat and muscle that the dead animal/meat gives in abundance well! it's just excess to life! and maybe diverts and blocks ultimate physical/spiritual energies and so spiritual evolution!

Please don't burn me at the STEAK for my words, they are just my thinking's!

Love, peace and big hugs to all animal life forms ;)

[Stephanie]

Thank you SamwiseThebrave,for bringing up about abundance and scarcity issues,even in our eating patterns.

Your thread brought to mind Wade Fraziers 'A Healed Planet',where he writes with soooo much wisdom and eloquence,about many wonderful ideas and ideals,including the great importance of coming from an area of abundancy,spiritually and physically,that affects all of us on our paths,and our planet.[Please excuse my simplicity,in putting into my words,what I feel is the essence of an area,he talks about in his great work.]

[13th Warrior]

Samwise,

I don't know where you've gained your perspective regarding the amount of time carnivores vs herbivores spend in pursuit of their nutritional needs but, you've managed to invert the true relationship.

[Arak]

My humble opinnion is that every evolved spirit knows that the veganism is the only suitable diet. And this decission will come automaticly as soon as the spirit is stronger than the body and it's lust for meat.

[skyflower]

I am a meat eater. I've been one for as long as I can remember. I love a good meat cooked over charcoal, and I love my Korean BBQ.
But I don't really go out of my way to eat it or cook it. I don't crave it as much as I used to. I will still eat it if it is put in front of me. But I don't go looking for it.
I believe that people will naturally flow towards what is natural to them. Like attracts like, so the frequency of your body will determine what it wants. To each his/her own. We are all on different stages of our spiritual evolution.

[thunder24]

http://www.smithsonianchannel.com/sc/web/video/titles/12151/do-plants-respond-to-pain

interesting study...

how many bugs and organisms die while eating and/or harvesting plants... what about when one diggs the ground to plant...
how many bugs are ingested while asleep?!

[RunningDeer]

Interesting concept, SamWise.

I’d add that foods may assist the spiritual path, as do many different avenues. Assessment, and action steps increase the ability to see from the larger perspective and/or to live from the place of love and compassion are what raises one’s frequency, too.

And there's meditation, contemplation, personal study, arts, prayer, surround one self in environments such as forests, water bodies, or silence period. There are countless ways to break free from limiting beliefs and programs.


No one way. Even a catastrophic life experience changes one in a nano-second.

My recipe: desire+action+continued maintenance=evolving frequency

<3

[nenosema]

Yes! plants have feeling too!

Animal meat is very plain by itself. without the seasonings it would be way different.
We're all asked to keep an open mind being on Avalon, and seeing the many lies we've been told about everything and trying to find the Truth. A better way, wanting to live in Peace & Harmony with Nature.
Let me ask whomever eats meat, would you consider to not eat meat for three or four months just to see how it feels?? Then go back to doing whatever you were doing before? maybe try unseasoned meet and seasoned veggie dip!!?
you never know,..

[Centauri]

Not rolling my eyes!

Lately I've been feeling guilty about squishing an ant or a spider! Since I don't have any real preference what power-pellets I throw down my gullet, I suppose that eventually my guilt will make me vegan! AHhAha

Then there is this account from http://galactic.no/rune/iarga.html

An interesting (and of course completely unveriiable) contactee story that includes this little snippet involving their diet and food production tech....

"The catch consists purely of fish that have been sieved out of the system. The strange thing was that these fish looked just the same as fish here on earth. I saw some fish with a length of four to five meters which, for as far as my knowledge of biology can be trusted, were perfectly normal sharks. I also saw swordfish; and preditory fish were hunted with the aid of sound waves and flavored bait, the carcasses were thrown back into the sea. Beside this, they also eat meat, but it would be going too much into details to describe their breeding methods here. To tell the truth, I was somewhat disappointed to see that a super race still killed animals."

So apparently, even advanced cultures still eat animals.

[Ecnal61]

THANK YOU,samwisethebrave,what a lovely well worded and articulate argument that you have posted here,i really liked the points you have made about spiritual growth. i am not a vegan but i have just passed my second year as a vegetarian..and there have been a few times when i have really missed meat,like when the neighbours have a bar-B-Q and i totally agree with sunny-side-up about the hypocrisy of allowing someone else to kill an animal on your behalf knowing full well that you could not do it yourself ie,butcher/supermarket..i know because i was a hypocrite most of my life until i watched a PETA video on animal production cruelty which left me in tears and vowing that nobody would ever again kill an animal on my behalf again, Listen to me on my vegetarian soapbox..ok its not as high as a vegan soapbox but its higher than you burger munchers lol

[Orph]

Odd, as I see this thread from a different perspective than everybody else. For those of us that have lived, and are in the middle of living, countless numbers of incarnations and reincarnations, I'm sure being a vegan will pop it's head up at some point in those lives. But, ............ does that mean the vegan lifestyle will always pop up in the later incarnations of the soul? Might some of us be vegans in our earlier incarnations and carnivores in our later ones?

I personally think it's misleading to say that a vegan leads a more spiritual life. If we spend a thousand lifetimes sitting around in the lotus position saying "Ommmmmm" while eating apples and drinking dew drops, how much will we learn?

Being the mean dastardly soul from time to time IS a learning experience. The spirit grows, as does the universe. Now, ... having said that, I do eat less meat than I used to. Quite a bit less. And like a few people above mentioned, if you do listen and become more aware of your body, the body will tell you what it needs.

But I spend most my time "chasing my next meal" via having to go to work everyday just to pay bills, which includes eating. So what's a person to do? The world we live in, at this time, is messed up. I'm just trying to survive. And this is part of my spiritual journey.

[Mac]

I'm with you Sam up to a point.How far do you take it though and why stop at animals by cultivating and eating plants are'nt we interfering with their existence. That is a common argument meat eaters throw at militant veggies,not that you come across militant you seem very reasonable.8)
I gave this some thought again after posting to the other veg thread and have gone vegan again on a six month trial.Not because of God or spirituality but because of my own human free will conscience.
Many religions are ok with eating meat and people still gain Enlightenment within these religions so that throws a spanner in the works.Personally I am not a fan of absolutes because some numpty always comes along and turns them on their head.All the other work we need to do to invite the Enlightenment {physical process} in is far more important imo.
The culture I grew up in eats meat most meals if they don't have meat on the dinner plate it doesn't satisfy, something is lacking they think (borderline addiction).
My journey was a process of leaving that learned mindset behind.First I went off red meat and could only tolerate eating white meat.Then I could only tolerate fish,then just veggie then vegan.I then went back veggie with fish now and again (when eating out) now back to vegan for keeps I think, unless some unforeseen related health issue.
Anyway imo any meat eater seekers thinking that eating meat is why it isn't happening aren't going to find the answer/cure in just going vegan,the internal journey seems to be far more important.
That said, I agree that the human race would evolve quicker and be happier if it stopped eating flesh for all sorts of reasons not just spiritual.
Rgrds

[Zionbrion]

I was mostly a vegetarian for 10 years ages 17-27, I ate fish occasionally though. Now I would say I am a full blown omnivore. I got turned back onto meat 2 years ago by buffalo meat balls, and I never turned back.
I think this is a debate that both sides can continually make arguments back and forth and never come to a solid conclusion. I really like the well thought outness of your post, but I have to disagree with a lot because they are a bit stereotyped. I don't think, say a big wild cat, is only thinking of the next hunt, as I see they are perfectly content between their meals. I would say an Herbivore spends more time consumed by finding and eating food than a carnivore.
I dont think veganism has anything to do with being higher spiritually evolved, Id say a lot of vegans have the opposite problem because their ego surrounding their diet hinders their own spiritual development, though this is also a stereotype I have witnessed.
Ultimately we have bodies designed to digest pretty much anything, and I think our own environment ultimately leads to a diet appropriate for the best health for our bodies, spiritually and physically, and our environment.

Here is a blog written about being a meat eater that hits home really well.


http://coldantlerfarm.blogspot.ca/2014/07/an-open-letter-to-angry-vegetarians.html?m=1

[Sunny-side-up]

More late night thinking's/ramblings on the subject:

Do you think a Spirit body in it's full free form needs or wants to eat another physical life form?

To eat meat just in the name of taste is a weak desire, that is not a sign of strength, not a rising direction.
If just for taste/desire then matter and this realm has a hold on you, a hold that will keep you down and will drag you down inch by inch given any signs of weakness on your part!

To carry on eating meat in the name of taste and or desire, is a knife and fork in the side of your spirit!

To be mindful of the food you eat is to be evolving!
To be mindful that the flesh you ate was once a living creature, is to be evolving!
To be mindful that the flesh you ate died for you, is to be evolving!
To be upset for the life you just ate, be it meats or vegetables, is to be evolving!
To not partake in eating meats and vegetables is to die!

To be upset about having done or doing any of the above, is contact between mind and emotions and is to be mindfully evolving!

To cut out food desire is to be evolving!

To limit your self to the bare minimum, is to exist, and so is to be evolving
To mindfully eat the bare minimum is life, and is to be evolving!

To love all animals and not just your pets, is to be evolving!
To not eat/kill animals is giving into Love, and this is Spiritually evolving!

To love all life is to be Spiritually evolving!

To not eat meat will, in your life time save the lives of hundreds and thousands of life forms, to do this is an act of a spiritually growing life form! this is a life form breaking away from this material, dense realm!

You can't say you love some one, some being, some creature then eat it and think that is not going to slow down your spiritual growth/evolution!

I love plants and vegetables (I don't mean I love their taste) but to exist in a minimum way I have to eat them :( That gives me pain, that will slow me down but I will be free of animal deaths, that gives me great joy and speeds me up!

But then again this is all just illusion! except for love that is ;)

Love, peace and hugs to all
Alan

[GloriousPoetry]

Both plants and animals are living beings... .......everybody has different vibrational needs regarding their energetic signature and regarding their own spiritual evolution... One has nothing over the other in terms of spiritual evolution....it's really about merging with your own unique energetic signature as a spiritual being in a physical body....everyone is on their own spiritual journey....

[Robin]

I would like to respond to all of your thoughtful comments, but I first want to add here a counter argument to my theory that I find to be very thought-provoking:

I posed my argument to my friend and she countered my argument quite brilliantly, which I will summarize here:



Even if we could show that herbivores generally have more free time and ground themselves in the present, there still is the question as to what organisms receive the most care when they are young. Herbivores are born with natural instincts and the physical capability to run and search for food. In other words, there is no need for much mother/baby bonding as the baby is already taught through instinct. That critical bonding time between a mother and baby as the baby learns how to navigate through the world is gone.

Carnivores, on the other hand, generally have babies that need a long time of nurturing to understand the world around them. The mother must teach them to catch prey, hide in camouflage, and to build a den. This lengthy period of time could be a good argument that carnivores are given a lot of spiritual attention when they are young.

My counter-argument to this is that carnivores typically have many more babies than herbivores do. While herbivore mothers devote all of their energy reserves to developing one or two babies in their uterus, carnivore mothers spread all of their energy to several babies. These babies are born in instantaneous competition as they must compete with their siblings for food and mother care (sibling rivalry). Having many babies ensures that the fittest babies survive to adulthood, therefore, propagating more genetics for the good of the species. Already at birth carnivore babies are exposed to competition and a survival-of-the-fittest mentality.

Going back to my theory, carnivores having more babies (and devoting a large amount of time to raise one or two that survives) is the epitome of a survival-of-the-fittest mentality based off of a future-centered focus.

[nenosema]

Both of these are good points, along with the OP, but I think a little over analytical if you're trying to get people to stop wanting to eat meat.
It's so hard to approach this subject, as with any kind of conspiracy with anyone who isn't open to new ideas. If you are able to talk conspiracy with someone, and their ears perk up a bit, you'll be more able to introduce a subject of this nature & have more of an chance at change with a Documentary like Earthlings, Food inc, Vegucated etc. Sometimes it is just a seed you plant that will sprout up a little vegan later on..

One thing I really like is an all Vegan or Vegetarian community. Reddit is a really good place for this. :)
Music is another way to reach people. One thing I have noticed is alot of people in the anarchist/traveler community are vegan/vegetarians. But I never seemed to ask what brought them to it. Maybe I'll start to ask why.

How, if every one turned Veg and was looking back into the History of Earth would it have happened..? Raise kids vegan and things will change.

MXItsqWNb1o

:wub:

[DNA]

I was mostly a vegetarian for 10 years ages 17-27, I ate fish occasionally though. Now I would say I am a full blown omnivore. I got turned back onto meat 2 years ago by buffalo meat balls, and I never turned back.
I think this is a debate that both sides can continually make arguments back and forth and never come to a solid conclusion. I really like the well thought outness of your post, but I have to disagree with a lot because they are a bit stereotyped. I don't think, say a big wild cat, is only thinking of the next hunt, as I see they are perfectly content between their meals. I would say an Herbivore spends more time consumed by finding and eating food than a carnivore.
I dont think veganism has anything to do with being higher spiritually evolved, Id say a lot of vegans have the opposite problem because their ego surrounding their diet hinders their own spiritual development, though this is also a stereotype I have witnessed.
Ultimately we have bodies designed to digest pretty much anything, and I think our own environment ultimately leads to a diet appropriate for the best health for our bodies, spiritually and physically, and our environment.

Here is a blog written about being a meat eater that hits home really well.


http://coldantlerfarm.blogspot.ca/2014/07/an-open-letter-to-angry-vegetarians.html?m=1

I like your post ZionBrion, and I like the dude who stated earlier that heart disease has been linked to sugar use rather than animal fat.

I like yourself was a vegetarian for seven years. Seven LONG years. I thought I felt fine, until after seven long years, I sat down and ate a hamburger, yea, a crappy hamburger. And the next day I felt better than I had in years.

Different folks have different blood types. And it is my belief that this correlates with how your immediate ancestors lived and how they evolved in accordance with what they ate.

Look at Native Americans and how they lived on a diet rich in animal Protein.
These folks can't handle all the carbs and sugar thrown their way, and as a result obesity, high blood pressure and diabetes run rampent in the Native American communities at this time.

I'm guessing if they were living on Bison like they were two hundred years ago, they would be just fine.