Saying I love you to a spiritual person

[Skyhaven]

She says: what exactly do you love about me?? my appearance? my emotions?, my thoughts? That's not really me you know! I'm only the witness.

I say: then I love you as a witness.

She says: that's really random you know, there are a lot of witnesses out there.

I say: can't you just witness and experience my love for you as witness?

She says: ok, I just did.

:confused:

[dosedneurons]

doesn't sound like she is spiritual at all. if she was spiritual, she wouldn't be such a hard-headed pain to deal with and would accept the compliment with a heart-felt "thank you!".

how old is this woman?

[Tony]

Essence is love.

[joeecho]

Words, thoughts, deeds and knowledge of love are nothing compared to Love, including this sentence and the one writing it.

[Orph]

Take a moment to be by yourself. Close your eyes. Now, .. relax and really feel deeply into this "love" that you have for your friend. As you settle into this "feeling of love", just come to the realization that it's all you. All the feelings, all the thoughts, whatever it may be that you are experiencing, is all you. All of it is your perceptions. Including the physical perceptions of sitting in your chair.


But, keep in mind, we all here are playing a game of separation. And so we split love into many different things. We love our girlfriends, we love pizza, we love our pets, and on and on. So the questions she asks, are valid questions you need to ask yourself. What do you love about her? (Don't answer that here. That's for you to answer for yourself). It's all just a game of perceptions. So, in this game, you may, (or may not), decide that she really does (or does not), make you happy.

The thing is, - Love - simply is. It doesn't require anything else. And everything else is just a game.

[Skyhaven]

doesn't sound like she is spiritual at all. if she was spiritual, she wouldn't be such a hard-headed pain to deal with and would accept the compliment with a heart-felt "thank you!".

how old is this woman?

She's not serious though, she's just playing a game. No need for anger. I can see through that. :p

Thank you Orph, that's well put!

[Hervé]

... better start assessing WHO you are "talking" to / "arguing" with... like make sure it's a "who" that's there... not a "what"!

... you know... is it the person? Hitchhiker? Attachment"? Djinn? Stowaway? A programmed belief system that's looping? Etc....

Check things like Eve Lorgen's "Love Bite." (http://evelorgen.com/wp/)

[christian]

Playing games is what we're all here for, isn't it? :cool:

For me it's usually easiest to communicate what I love about someone or about a relationship by talking about what it means to me, how it affects, inspires, touches, and changes me. If the other person feels the same or similarly about being with me, then we have a match. :wink:

[Zampano]

I think when you are completely anchored in the Absolute and be the Witness, there are no more concepts like love, fear, anger, friendship-everything is.
There is still the human left-the body with all its emotions, thoughts, beliefs, patterns and so on. And it can say, yes, there is love, there is pain, there is anger, but not identified with it.

The question for me is: Is she saying that, she is only the witness or is she in this state of being? Or in between somewhere?

[panopticon]

She says: what exactly do you love about me?? my appearance? my emotions?, my thoughts? That's not really me you know! I'm only the witness.

I say: then I love you as a witness.

She says: that's really random you know, there are a lot of witnesses out there.

I say: can't you just witness and experience my love for you as witness?

She says: ok, I just did.

:confused:

Leave now and do not look back.

These are games that are being played and unless you want to play those games then time to bugger off (though you could try the sit and talk it through, but I've never known that to work for long with game players).

If you want a relationship that means you relate to the person and they relate to you. You are both true to your own self and share the wish to unite/walk together as independent people.

If you want a game then you don't need to relate only manipulate so go for it.

-- Pan

Just looked down the thread and you want to play the game. Fair enough. Each to their own.

[Skyhaven]

She says: what exactly do you love about me?? my appearance? my emotions?, my thoughts? That's not really me you know! I'm only the witness.

I say: then I love you as a witness.

She says: that's really random you know, there are a lot of witnesses out there.

I say: can't you just witness and experience my love for you as witness?

She says: ok, I just did.

:confused:

Leave now and do not look back.

These are games that are being played and unless you want to play those games then time to bugger off (though you could try the sit and talk it through, but I've never known that to work for long with game players).

If you want a relationship that means you relate to the person and they relate to you. You are both true to your own self and share the wish to unite/walk together as independent people.

If you want a game then you don't need to relate only manipulate so go for it.

-- Pan

Just looked down the thread and you want to play the game. Fair enough. Each to their own.


There's is really no negativity involved. A game is FUN, it is PLAY. Call this just a word game. I thought it was humorous, that's why I posted it. Maybe it helps to note, that she smiled when see said it.

[Skyhaven]

I think when you are completely anchored in the Absolute and be the Witness, there are no more concepts like love, fear, anger, friendship-everything is.
There is still the human left-the body with all its emotions, thoughts, beliefs, patterns and so on. And it can say, yes, there is love, there is pain, there is anger, but not identified with it.

The question for me is: Is she saying that, she is only the witness or is she in this state of being? Or in between somewhere?

She was implying that she doesn't want to be loved solely by the things that pass: appearance, emotions, thoughts. She wanted to test me if I could take on her spirituality with a shallow "I love you". Really these are just words. Some people say them a 100 times a day to each other, and it wears out fast! There's is not much power in just words. She's right. I fully agree with her.

[delfine]

Still to me, her response seems overly strict. Yes, it is true that our innermost being is awareness, but reducing herself to that only, denies all the nuances and aspects of relationship in embodied existence. If we are solely to live life from the standpoint of the witness, it naturally makes all kindness, consideration and generosity and other expressions of love meaningless.
How are you going to express love and kindness to others, if their bodies are irrelevant? You cannot feed or caress the witness.
You can´t even percieve it in others. You can only be the witness. So taking the stanze of being the witness, kills off the human aspect, the feeling, sensing quality of being alive, which is a great shame.
I think a more balanced approach would be to accept that yes, ultimately we´re spirit. We cannot be seen or touched, or see or touch that spirit. But we can aspire to touch the spirit through the body. We can get closer and closer to each other in love. If you deny the human, embodied aspect of your life, you simultaneously deny all the juiciness, all the colour and flavour. And that´s one-sided IMO.

[panopticon]

She says: what exactly do you love about me?? my appearance? my emotions?, my thoughts? That's not really me you know! I'm only the witness.

I say: then I love you as a witness.

She says: that's really random you know, there are a lot of witnesses out there.

I say: can't you just witness and experience my love for you as witness?

She says: ok, I just did.

:confused:

Leave now and do not look back.

These are games that are being played and unless you want to play those games then time to bugger off (though you could try the sit and talk it through, but I've never known that to work for long with game players).

If you want a relationship that means you relate to the person and they relate to you. You are both true to your own self and share the wish to unite/walk together as independent people.

If you want a game then you don't need to relate only manipulate so go for it.

-- Pan

Just looked down the thread and you want to play the game. Fair enough. Each to their own.


There's is really no negativity involved. A game is FUN, it is PLAY. Call this just a word game. I thought it was humorous, that's why I posted it. Maybe it helps to note, that she smiled when see said it.

And now you play a game.

You gave no context and posted a questioning face at the end which appeared to ask for assistance/advice.

You wanted neither.

A simple introduction that it was a fun "word play" you and your female friend were doing and you were using it as an example in whatever you were trying to teach would have sufficed...

Typically why I don't respond to these sort of threads. Too many would be spiritual people claiming the high ground.

It should be noted that I didn't realise this was in the "spiritual" sub-forum and thought it was under "general discussion" when I responded.

As such I wipe the mud from my boots as I leave.

http://www.usethings.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/DSC03257-300x300.jpg

-- Pan

[Milneman]

She says: what exactly do you love about me?? my appearance? my emotions?, my thoughts? That's not really me you know! I'm only the witness.

I say: then I love you as a witness.

She says: that's really random you know, there are a lot of witnesses out there.

I say: can't you just witness and experience my love for you as witness?

She says: ok, I just did.

:confused:

Walk....away.

[dosedneurons]

sounds like she wants you to make sweet sweet love to her. haha.

[Skyhaven]

How are you going to express love and kindness to others, if their bodies are irrelevant? You cannot feed or caress the witness. You can´t even percieve it in others. You can only be the witness. So taking the stanze of being the witness, kills off the human aspect, the feeling, sensing quality of being alive, which is a great shame.

Sure you can! The witness is at the base of everything! Every nuance of this beautiful existence is witnessed. This is what I meant when I said: "can't you just witness and experience my love for you as witness?", but she was not convinced because I used just words. Witness just some words, without action, and there is not much love to witness, is there?

the core of this is that which you witness is not you, it just passes through you. If you identify with it, you hold on to to it, which means you will hold on to things you cannot hold on to. This will choke the natural flow of things! It doesn't in any way, shape or form mean you don't experience (or witness) it to the fullest.

[Skyhaven]

She says: what exactly do you love about me?? my appearance? my emotions?, my thoughts? That's not really me you know! I'm only the witness.

I say: then I love you as a witness.

She says: that's really random you know, there are a lot of witnesses out there.

I say: can't you just witness and experience my love for you as witness?

She says: ok, I just did.

:confused:

Leave now and do not look back.

These are games that are being played and unless you want to play those games then time to bugger off (though you could try the sit and talk it through, but I've never known that to work for long with game players).

If you want a relationship that means you relate to the person and they relate to you. You are both true to your own self and share the wish to unite/walk together as independent people.

If you want a game then you don't need to relate only manipulate so go for it.

-- Pan

Just looked down the thread and you want to play the game. Fair enough. Each to their own.


There's is really no negativity involved. A game is FUN, it is PLAY. Call this just a word game. I thought it was humorous, that's why I posted it. Maybe it helps to note, that she smiled when see said it.

And now you play a game.

You gave no context and posted a questioning face at the end which appeared to ask for assistance/advice.

You wanted neither.

A simple introduction that it was a fun "word play" you and your female friend were doing and you were using it as an example in whatever you were trying to teach would have sufficed...

Typically why I don't respond to these sort of threads. Too many would be spiritual people claiming the high ground.

It should be noted that I didn't realise this was in the "spiritual" sub-forum and thought it was under "general discussion" when I responded.

As such I wipe the mud from my boots as I leave.

http://www.usethings.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/DSC03257-300x300.jpg

-- Pan

Ok, thanks for your input anyway.

[bram]

I think your gf got it wrong. You're not supposed to just be a witness, you're supposed to witness yourself being yourself.

So you can witness yourself being loved and that means to feel the love and witness yourself feeling it. That way you're still a witness, but you're fully engaged in your life at the same time.

If you think nothing that you witness matters, then you're not really witnessing, you're just shrinking into yourself, and your mind is pulling you into a cocoon. But these are the tricks that the ego plays on us.....

[Skyhaven]

I think your gf got it wrong. You're not supposed to just be a witness, you're supposed to witness yourself being yourself.

So you can witness yourself being loved and that means to feel the love and witness yourself feeling it. That way you're still a witness, but you're fully engaged in your life at the same time.

If you think nothing that you witness matters, then you're not really witnessing, you're just shrinking into yourself, and your mind is pulling you into a cocoon. But these are the tricks that the ego plays on us.....


That is about what I wrote three posts earlier. However I do think the identification has to be on the witness level, this doesn't mean you can't witness life to it's fullest.

[Milneman]

.....there, but for the grace of God, go I.

:eek: