The "Proof of Evidence'' Thread

[Agape]

It might be safer to move the thread to 'members only' Contactee zone .

I would like to ask fellow 'contactees' , 'abductees' , 'ETs' and 'open minded skeptics' alike, obviously the discussion concerns those who knowingly and admittedly experienced contact with advanced ET intelligence/s in some form - whatever form and intelligence that may be -

what would they ( of their own will & decision, without any external pressure or demand ) consider a 'proof of evidence' of the ET intelligence that contacted them and whether such an evidence could be gathered .. at all .. or not . Under what circumstances , perhaps if the timing was good enough , special equipment available , lab tests etc .

I have my own mind on this that relates to my life but aware that the range of experiences is extremely vast here ..
far from being uniform .. from dreamlike visions, lucid dreams, telepathic communications, to implants, scars , DNA manipulation , various forms of biological and psychic testing , crossbreeding experiments , missing time , space-time manipulation ,
electromagnetic effects, visual effects ( such as 'orbs' or various 'blobs of light' ) etc etc .

yet .. we are all almost uniformly denied 'credibility' for our testimonies and asked to 'give them the proof' .

No matter what little evidence has been gathered by the alternative research community it's quality - compared to the quality of the 'original ET intelligence and technologies' tends to be extremely low .

For example , there have been people researched by the SETI community who claimed to 'receive alien signal' through their head that was of certain frequency , detectable signal according to those people .. yet .. when a test in isolated environment was conducted and sensitive instruments equipped , there was no evidence of such signal ever found .

Similarly, there seem to be many claims of ET/Human crossbreeding experiments and so called 'star children' or 'star seed' ( no matter the terminology ) and long chat about 12 or 24 strand DNA on alternative scene while in reality,
none such a healthy DNA or 'ET DNA' has ever been found in genetic mapping - this is no stopper in the debate - simply because human genetics is still in diapers .

On the other hand , manifold DNA strand mutations are found and mostly associated with physically and mentally retarded children rather than with the healthy , bright 'star kids' whose bio-information may simply appear to be 'perfectly in norm' ( as sort of 'golden ratio' of this entire human population ) .

So also 'alien implants' ... that seem to behave intelligently and contain some type of anomalous materials ...after 'spending' decades grown to the subjects/victims own tissue ,
even in those cases ... it's not really clear that they would have precise shapes ( corresponding to what we actually SEE to be the art-of-state technology on the ET side ) or that they would display special sort of properties that could be attributed to technical device . No stopper again .


I'm not asking this question/questions from a point of view of skeptic , obviously , I think we all are facing ..maybe globally .. a similar difficulty here, aside of claims that someones government or military have all the proofs ( I don't believe they have 'heap of evidence' , if it was 'heap' they would not be able to cover it to this day ) ,
ET does not care .

I would like to invite some of you ( or all ) who have had what you consider 'real ET contact experience' , it means you don't doubt it ( first of all, no matter who doubts you ) ,

and if you could say ... which way do you think that evidence of that particular ET group could be proved , directly .



Examples : Do you think that ETs could be photographed or captured on film . Honestly . Or , do you think ( my impression ) our technologies are still way too primitive to capture such hyper-dimensional events .


Could they be asked/ made to leave an imprint or signature somewhere that would reflect the complex nature of their biological and technical intelligence .

Could they draw a picture , in this human space-time continuum , on their own ( without using human interface ) . ( Human interface is so far, the latest and safest invention I understand is being used ).

Record a signal, speech , or whatever music on one of these human devices .


Could they indeed, leave us with material proof of their presence , a souvenir , something they would not exactly miss on the way home , with respect for the resources in space are always bit scarce .


Any other idea .... out of the box ... what do you think would be possible ?




Peace :angel:

[mojo]

Thanks for the insightful OP. There is currently alot of proof imho. Someone once mentioned that we are always stuck in the proving part and we hardly get to the asking the reason why part, which is probably even more interesting to know...

[Jake]

The concept of proof, is flawed.. IMHO. First of all, it is a sliding scale, based on a persons knowledge and experience. I can show a photo of my dog,,, is it proof that I have a dog? Yes, to some,,, no to others.. I can bring my dog into a lab, and show it to scientists. Is that proof that I have a dog? Strictly speaking,,, NO!! Biological material will have to be taken and compared to other dogs,, if we are going to satisfy some of the most stringent 'needers' of proof.. (which has become so damn absurd,, I get headaches thinking about it..) Second,, even somebody who is observing the evidence,,,, is doing so from a limited 'human' perspective.. If you believe in the concept of proof,,, then do you suggest that HUMANS are THE OVERALL point of observation in the Universe. You see?? Flawed.. :( We cannot yet describe the universe in 'provable' terms,,, yet we have exalted ourselves as those who hold the keys of PROOF!!!

I love my mum!! But I cannot prove it, until we are able to measure it in a lab,, by folks who do not care if I love her or not!!!

If someone needs total proof about everything in their lives,,, they must be a frustrated mess!!!

I have reviewed lots of Radar Returns from UFO events.. This is not proof to many people.. Talk to the guy who has worked with this technology most of his life,,,, He will tell you that it is 100%,, Rock/Solid proof!!

Proof is a slippery slope... I have one physicist telling me all about particle physics,,, and I have another showing me the implications of quantum physics... Each one of them showing me PROOF regarding their perspective areas of expertise... I have seen proof that the wave function collapses based on an inseparability of consciousness and potentials... I have also seen proof that if you split an atom,,,, it has a physical effect. Wow,,, Both are true.. We are approaching the day where we can resolve these things,, but it is NOT going to be done by folks who cling to the obsessive point of view that PROOF is somehow a RIGHT... Knowledge and truth can be obtained by personal interaction with the non-physical universe... Proof is false... I filmed myself having an OBE once... hahahahahaha..... (longo time ago... lol) I left my body and stayed in the room, trying to stay in front of the camera... When I phased back,,, I went straight to the video and watched myself laying there sleeping... :(:(:(:(:( I know damn well that I was out of my body. And I know that the camera was ignorant of the whole thing..... Now,,, we live in a world that demands proof for everything,,,, even personal experience.

I looked outside this morning to see if it was raining..... Me wife pulled it up on the computer... Nope,,, it wasn't raining... :):) Good thing we had the computer to help us prove it!!! :)

I Don't know what proof is, other than a tool for manipulating those who have not had the opportunity of personal experience...

I don't waste a single second on it anymore.... When I talk about OBE,,,, and someone says,, "prove it"... (usually someone who does not want proof, but wants to laugh at you trying,,) I simply flip it on them... "No,,, YOU prove to me that it didn't happen..." Then I watch as THEY squirm for an intelligent answer...

If you want proof of an extra terrestrial race of beings on planet earth,,,, look in a mirror!!! The Human Race has amnesia for a reason!!!!!

Sorry for the rant... love to all
Jake.

[aheb]

Proof is fairly self evident and also obvious. I don't need to prove there is an ocean, and I don't need to prove it to the world as a whole. People are not abducted to see an ocean, the ocean is not channeled to them.
It is only when there is a great deal of doubt that we need proof.

[mojo]

well said, except there are hoaxed and fabricated accounts so do see a need for good evidence gathering in support of testimony, some stories are truly stranger than fiction. So the issue is over the word proof but not evidence..

[RunningDeer]

Back about 15 years, I’d feel a loving presence. Some physical indicators were my skin tingled, I felt warmth radiate on one side, or a subtle touch on my shoulders. Often, I get sensation in the belly like when your high on a swing and are about to come down. Or other times, I’d get a sensation in the dan tian which is just below the belly button. I always returned a ‘hello and thanks’ message.

This one time while working on a display in my apartment, a suggestion flashed in my mind to snap photos. So each time I got the dan tian sensation, I snapped away. Then I downloaded them and saw light. The rational part of me, decided to close off all the light in my apartment and snap again. I got the same results, a large bright light.

I appreciated the confirmation, but I didn’t need it because there had been an uptick in phenomena since 1994.

Several days later I called my sister and was going to send the photos. But they were no longer on my computer or in my camera nor on DVD. (I’m OCD about back-ups with my projects.)

I’ve received critical and timely demonstrations of “you are not alone” messages. I appreciate the need for concrete proof, but often the messages are designed only for a present moment. An awareness helps merge with the event.

Even though at one level, it’s a normal part of life, I’m still filled with gratitude and joy from each new occurrence.

RunningDeer <3

[Agape]

Thanks for the insightful OP. There is currently alot of proof imho. Someone once mentioned that we are always stuck in the proving part and we hardly get to the asking the reason why part, which is probably even more interesting to know...

But the 'why' is keeping us ( currently ) in the same endless loop regarding all matters ET . It's as if the reasons - or say doubts - had overgrown even the doubter himself .

Of course , as other posts and people suggest , the problem is with the skeptics , it's the disbelievers asking for proofs , not the experiencer .
That's what I've tried to explain to someone close to the field of research recently, most 'true experiencers' ( no matter of what .. ) do not require proofs and it does not make me crazy having a material proof or not when the 'reality horizon' of event is loaded by information , accompanying emotion , or simply to say 'experience' to such a degree that it provides us with satisfactory 'comfort zone' .

There may be two or three good cases/reasons ( probably more ) when and why proofs are required ...

a/ people who were hurt by their experience and feel that the source intelligence poses a danger to them and others and there's a need to find remedy

b/ people who experienced something 'anomalous' that they consider a vision or another repeated form of 'intervention' to their lives and the fact that its nature can't be explained to full satisfaction makes life difficult to them

c/ the need of 'scientific proof' to satisfy those 'big questions' asked by mankind that are commonly addressed by both scientists, spiritual/religious leaders, ufologists and so forth and where we remain in disagreement one against the other,
seemingly or not, and unable to find common grounds for intelligent debate

In fact it's this third reason that I think is of utmost importance as also concerning the global situation of humanity . While none of us perspectively require individual proofs we are left in grey zone when trying to approach other people .

It's of course also , as you have mentioned , difficult to dismiss those many fantastic claims , hoaxes and 'story tellers' creating smoke and showing fake mirrors to genuine puzzle pieces , and it's even more difficult for the fact that some of the most incredible and famous stories can be outright hoaxes
while some if not most contact events were probably never filmed or recorded .. thinking of areas of this planet where such reporting is far from easy to do and all various levels of society that would consider such reporting 'socially unacceptable' .

Therefor the questions .

What Jake said is absolutely agreeable to me .. there are plenty if not most things in this Universe ( including the Universe itself ;) ) that can't be immediately proved . Even to prove the Universe exists outside 'me' would first require to establish that any such 'me' exists and from certain relativistic perspective ..... I don't ;)
Proving love to someone who requires proofs too is almost impossible , so are many other matters.

That OBE can not be filmed sounds interesting , not surprising but then again... is it possible (?) that it could be filmed with some kind of uptodate next generation equipment . Are we still nearing ( technologically ) the threshold where ET could be filmed - not as a ghost - or light blob -- but as fully discernible creature ,
as delicate and formatted as most ETs are ?

[PurpleLama]

One who would require such proof has a devil for a mind. Those that I know have always been careful never to leave any evidence beyond the subtle or not so subtle effects that arise in the aftermath of the encounters. I barely even talk about my own experiences to the people closest to me in life, but through me they are touched by the changes such encounters have engendered in me. There is a saying, the proof is in the pudding.

[Agape]

One who would require such proof has a devil for a mind. Those that I know have always been careful never to leave any evidence beyond the subtle or not so subtle effects that arise in the aftermath of the encounters. I barely even talk about my own experiences to the people closest to me in life, but through me they are touched by the changes such encounters have engendered in me. There is a saying, the proof is in the pudding.

Well, PurpleLama , this is exactly one of my points that I was trying to make and it also begs the question why ..left with all the 6,5 billion skeptics ;)

[PurpleLama]

The furor and hysteria that would arise from our very fragile collective mental state would be most detrimental. When humanity is ready, they will be here, but not a moment before. I can't blame them, I would not want to be responsible for triggering our human penchant for stupidity on so grand a scale. People like us can exist, and those who are ready for information such as yours can find it and engage it, but the majority are not ready for it, would not know where to begin fitting it in to their busy lives. Without immediate value and benefit, our friends from beyond do us well by not showing themselves except in the ways they already do, they are wiser that we would be, a human would show themselves just to see what would happen and then would find entertainment in the chaos they caused. So many long for disclosure, or long for contact, but mostly they do not know what they wish for. When a person does the hard work of preparing themselves for what Universe has to offer, Universe is glad to deliver, but most people would rather stand by and complain, finding fault outside themselves rather than making their own effort.

[Agape]

The moment when this starts concerning you ( me ) is the moment when you find you ARE NOT SUPERMAN . Or super-woman , for that sake , it does not matter .

There are times when positive ET contact and information coming through looks like a great advantage . So I thought and I felt about it , on the 'hotspot ' .
Should add that I still felt quite strong and healthy at that time and on the mission to help others by any possible means . So I gladly accepted the information is one of the finest possible means how to correct the 'disinformation ' and chaos of human theories and dogmas ..
though .. without any touch of the internet I could never imagine the disinformation and chaos is so vast and meant to get bigger .

This all would be good .. if .. it was not for the continuous strangeness that others expressed towards me , without any solid reason given after I ever returned to Europe and since I started to tell what has happened , especially .

It's never been about 'intelligence' and 'intelligence game' , never fair to me , it's been all about the law of jungle . Human jealousy , lousiness , suspicions, fears .. at the place where you expect 'intelligence' and 'hearts' .

I've experienced many beautiful moments with these 'people' , all around the world as well .. but the paradox is .. that they are all somehow 'gone' when you need them the most .

Oh , and then of course .. some of them at least let you know that they'd help you to move things and generally .. if you ( me ) showed them whatever they'd consider solid proof of evidence .
I know they would . It would move quite good few people and things forwards . It would make someone , somewhere to hear me , personally .. and not over some ridiculously unscientific means and distances ,
and write a proper work that the event deserves . It would pay for the expertise that is required and medical care needed so I can ever recover from what I've been through.
It would stop the psychic pressure from many sides that create for many of us artificial feelings of guilt , mistrust from others, and condemn us to life of uncertain means and ends .

It would make things right which unfortunately , did not happen till now , after 12 years .. or 8 if I count from when the information was released .


:angel:

[Agape]

I wish I could draw so well ... my own ET sketches never ended up too good . These are some of the most beautiful ET drawings I've seen of recent ...

http://i290.photobucket.com/albums/ll256/PaldenLhamo/ET%20scans/tumblr_mfg6bhVwSp1rveyh5o1_1280_zpsace94b6a.jpg (http://s290.photobucket.com/user/PaldenLhamo/media/ET%20scans/tumblr_mfg6bhVwSp1rveyh5o1_1280_zpsace94b6a.jpg.html)

http://i290.photobucket.com/albums/ll256/PaldenLhamo/ET%20scans/tumblr_mfg6a7Sz4C1rveyh5o1_1280_zps01832ebd.jpg (http://s290.photobucket.com/user/PaldenLhamo/media/ET%20scans/tumblr_mfg6a7Sz4C1rveyh5o1_1280_zps01832ebd.jpg.html)

http://i290.photobucket.com/albums/ll256/PaldenLhamo/ET%20scans/tumblr_maq5m9wBey1rveyh5o1_r1_1280_zps751267cf.jpg (http://s290.photobucket.com/user/PaldenLhamo/media/ET%20scans/tumblr_maq5m9wBey1rveyh5o1_r1_1280_zps751267cf.jpg.html)

http://i290.photobucket.com/albums/ll256/PaldenLhamo/ET%20scans/2gz_zpsea3b911f.jpg (http://s290.photobucket.com/user/PaldenLhamo/media/ET%20scans/2gz_zpsea3b911f.jpg.html)

http://i290.photobucket.com/albums/ll256/PaldenLhamo/ET%20scans/tumblr_mfg6jsAkIS1rveyh5o1_r1_1280_zpsf24fc474.jpg (http://s290.photobucket.com/user/PaldenLhamo/media/ET%20scans/tumblr_mfg6jsAkIS1rveyh5o1_r1_1280_zpsf24fc474.jpg.html)

http://i290.photobucket.com/albums/ll256/PaldenLhamo/ET%20scans/tumblr_mozfaphOJv1rveyh5o1_500_zps6344e4c9.jpg (http://s290.photobucket.com/user/PaldenLhamo/media/ET%20scans/tumblr_mozfaphOJv1rveyh5o1_500_zps6344e4c9.jpg.html)



From: Ana Bagyan , Armenian artist living in LA , California

http://drawings-anabagayan.tumblr.com

[Peace of Mind]

Great Idea to have a thread dedicated to “proof/truth” concerning E.T….(still waiting for something to be implemented here).

It’ll be Interesting to see how far this gets, how much truth is exposed, how much any of it actually matters. I’ll tag this thread and bump it from time to time to remind us of what is actually happening here.

It will serve to be useful…one way or another.

Peace

[RunningDeer]

I wish I could draw so well ... my own ET sketches never ended up too good . These are some of the most beautiful ET drawings I've seen of recent ...
http://i290.photobucket.com/albums/ll256/PaldenLhamo/ET%20scans/tumblr_mozfaphOJv1rveyh5o1_500_zps6344e4c9.jpg[/URL]
From: Ana Bagyan , Armenian artist living in LA , California
http://drawings-anabagayan.tumblr.com
Thank you, Agape. This is synchronistic and helpful. I deleted a post not more than a couple of hours ago because it was off topic.

This photo in particular is the one where the reason why I rallied myself to go forward (explained below) because I noticed her red hair and wondered if it was a wig. And there were similarities with the others from your photos.

Repost:

<8>’s post triggered recall of my experience for the last two nights. As I’m going off to sleep, I feel presence and in my mind’s eye I see people right close to my face. Some almost nose to nose which makes me giggle. They are curious.

It’s not the first time, but this time I looked beyond the usual glance and with intent to notice detail. What I’m unsure of is that they are either ETs in disguise, or if I saw through the human-like layer that dropped away to see their ETs features.

While my courage was still at full throttle, I told them I wasn’t ready for this, so go away. As an added measure, I opened my eyes to make sure there was no physical manifestation because I still felt their presence. I told them that only those with highest source frequency are welcome.

RunningDeer <3

[Agape]

I wish I could draw so well ... my own ET sketches never ended up too good . These are some of the most beautiful ET drawings I've seen of recent ...

http://i290.photobucket.com/albums/ll256/PaldenLhamo/ET%20scans/tumblr_mfg6bhVwSp1rveyh5o1_1280_zpsace94b6a.jpg (http://s290.photobucket.com/user/PaldenLhamo/media/ET%20scans/tumblr_mfg6bhVwSp1rveyh5o1_1280_zpsace94b6a.jpg.html)



These drawings at least , remind you of the real subtlety . And their eyes have some of that 'knowing look'.

Many if not most ET depictions are either incompetent ( like mine ;) ) , drone like , soulless .. or frightening . With few good exceptions of course ..like the movie E.T. the Extraterrestrial .
The eyes are important to this .. from the genuine , benevolent Beings I always felt instant awareness was present through their eyes, if they looked .. and depth .. of understanding, knowledge, empathy . This isn't easy to portray by any means .

I think these too are approximations but when person is talented , both as empath and the artist , they may be able to get pretty close .. in spirit .. even if many morphological features do not match exactly .

17th and 18th century portrait art was quite amazing .. before the start of modern photography . It was expensive art .. of priceless value .

I'm afraid here .. as if something does not allow us to get 'real close' .

:peep:

[Frenchy]

Purple Lama, I was going to post this to Jakes bit, since his views resonated as being very reasonable, but, in a few phrases you've summed-up my feelings too. I"ve not been contacted (to my knowledge ), and I don't believe my recollections are flawed; and yet, have no compulsion to yet undergo regressive memory hypnotism, for I believe, such a decision, might not necessarily be mine ! However, when I took a Rosebud , and unfolded it, for my selfish reason of trying to see the beauty of its intricacy, I then did not need any additional , external proof, for me to know, that the highest order , played the only part, in its design, and creation.... Why should I ask for more, I touched, I smelt, I knew........... MY only wish is that the Creator, keeps a rein on the ungodly aspects, which clearly, are not part of a beautiful plan...