The Slippery Slope

[Curt]

No longer appropriate or useful.

[wnlight]

I too, felt the negativity towards the jews in my own self grow as I saw more and more atrocities committed by the zionists. I felt that negativity until I realised that Zionism and Judaism are not the same. Upon that realisation, I felt a great relief because I had thought I was beyond any anti-Semitic prejudices, and then slipping into a huge prejudice. I went through this process about a month ago, and don't mind telling you of my weakness because a few of you might also find it in yourselves. I thank Curt for spelling out the issue so well. OK. So now I can feel a great relief in despising what the Zionists are doing and yet still love the jews. So now what?

How do I react to the egregious behaviour of Israel against the Palestinians when nearly all of the jews support it? When I say nearly all of the jews, I include the ones living in Israel who voted for their leaders and the also the jews living in the US who are so vocal. I realise that they support the Israeli actions out of fear, but that is no excuse. That is no more of an excuse than the US populace supporting their great war against all muslims out of fear. Fear begetting anger.

[Dennis Leahy]

Brilliant, brilliant opening post, Curt. Damn, are your eyes ever wide open!

Dennis

p.s. {can I post this "elsewhere" - Faceboogers, for example - and if yes, do you want the attribution to simpy be "my friend, Curt", or what}

¤=[Post Update]=¤

Note the phrase "Jewish State" used by the Israeli Zionists - as if Israel is actually a theocracy that is somehow led by "laypersons" rather than Rabbis.

Dennis

[Curt]

Hi Dennis,

Thank you, my friend. Please feel free to share with anyone who might be interested on whatever media you think would be useful. No worries about attributing it to me. But feel free to if you'd like. 'My friend, Curt,' or anything like that sounds good to me!


Brilliant, brilliant opening post, Curt. Damn, are your eyes ever wide open!

Dennis

p.s. {can I post this "elsewhere" - Faceboogers, for example - and if yes, do you want the attribution to simpy be "my friend, Curt", or what}

[Dennis Leahy]

Hi Dennis,

Thank you, my friend. Please feel free to share with anyone who might be interested on whatever media you think would be useful. No worries about attributing it to me. But feel free to if you'd like. 'My friend, Curt,' or anything like that sounds good to me!


Brilliant, brilliant opening post, Curt. Damn, are your eyes ever wide open!

Dennis

p.s. {can I post this "elsewhere" - Faceboogers, for example - and if yes, do you want the attribution to simpy be "my friend, Curt", or what}

Thanks, Curt. My Fazeboog page is public, so anyone can see and read this: https://www.facebook.com/notes/dennis-leahy/the-slippery-slope-conflating-zionism-with-judaism-who-it-really-benefits/10152166549707854

[araucaria]

Thank you Curt for a great opening post. I would only disagree on the slippery slope bit: I prefer to think that great progress is being made.

To take one aspect of this a little further, I would go as far as to equate Zionism and anti-Semitism. Here in France, acts of anti-Semitism are mostly restricted to defacing Jewish graves with swastikas and the like. But you don’t have to be a far right-wing Jew hater to paint a swastika on a tombstone; you don’t even need for there to be any far right-wing Jew haters at all to produce swastikas painted on tombstones; all you need is people with an agenda that can be furthered by sticking a paintbrush in someone’s hand.

The agenda in question is Zionism, which creates these Nazi sympathisers in order to keep this human shield effective in deflecting the Zionist-inspired hatred. So you actually do have ‘bona fide’ card-carrying neo-Nazis who hate Jews merely because they are racist and that was the traditional form of racism before other races had made any local impact. In other words, they may not know this, but these Nazis are bought and paid for by the Zionists. So Curt, when you talk about them below, I agree they are ‘out of all serious discussion’, but they're not ‘out of the game’: they are very much in the game. When they lose their objectivity and their reason they reach for their guns.


When people fall into this second ‘anti-Semitic trap’, (and they truly do start to hate ‘the Jews) they lose their objectivity and their reason.

Then they're out of the game. Once they're embroiled in hatred and animosity, they take themselves out of all serious discussion.

There is another layer to this, which is to say that the Jews of Israel have turned from victims to perpetrators of genocide, the way many paedophiles started out as the victims of paedophilia. No, the Jews of Israel have turned from victims to human shields. The perpetrators of genocide are the same genocidal folks they always were. The problem is that they increase and multiply like the rest of us, as bloodlines, families, a race. And in this way the very process of singling these people out becomes a form of racism. In other words, the notion of racism itself becomes a shield.

Racism means setting one group apart from others. To subscribe to the view that we are all one is therefore to abhor racism. But what then is one to do when faced with a racist group that sets itself apart from others? I would tentatively suggest this. To abhor racism is of itself not enough: it is already a form of racism in that it implicitly accepts that there might be one group apart from others. In other words, it is a failing in our application of the view that we are all one. We need to rise to a level of thinking where racism truly and simply does not exist.

[Curt]

no longer useful...

[Billy]

Good thread Curt. And i agree that we must be careful not to tar everyone with the same brush.

A snipped version of a comment i made a few weeks ago.




Yes speak out against the Zionists and The Israeli Government and military, Hammas ,Hezbollah, And any one else who does not think that all are equal and life is sacred.

But the people of Israel and the poor Palestinians people only ever want peace.


What is the solution for the people of Palestine and Israel, A debate that is most welcomed in Avalon, Is there a solution that could bring peace to this horrific situation. It does not appear so.

My personal thoughts are,

The intentional divide and conquer by creating the state of Israel in 1948 by those who believe they are in control was a disaster from the beginning, initiated to bring on the bastards in power agenda of world war 111.

A shame the world is falling for this lie which does not have to happen. A homeland for the displaced Jewish population who survived the genocide did not have to be in Palestine. A homeland was what was required, That homeland could have been anywhere.

My personal solution.

The people of Israel awaken to the fact that they are used as pawns by their leaders and those who believe they in control as they attempt to steer towards Armageddon. The people of Israel say. enough is enough, NOT IN MY NAME.


Peace

[Curt]

Well said, Billy. It's good that many are finally standing up and saying 'not in my name'. Before long they will be too many to ignore.


Good thread Curt. And i agree that we must be careful not to tar everyone with the same brush.

A snipped version of a comment i made a few weeks ago.




Yes speak out against the Zionists and The Israeli Government and military, Hammas ,Hezbollah, And any one else who does not think that all are equal and life is sacred.

But the people of Israel and the poor Palestinians people only ever want peace.


What is the solution for the people of Palestine and Israel, A debate that is most welcomed in Avalon, Is there a solution that could bring peace to this horrific situation. It does not appear so.

My personal thoughts are,

The intentional divide and conquer by creating the state of Israel in 1948 by those who believe they are in control was a disaster from the beginning, initiated to bring on the bastards in power agenda of world war 111.

A shame the world is falling for this lie which does not have to happen. A homeland for the displaced Jewish population who survived the genocide did not have to be in Palestine. A homeland was what was required, That homeland could have been anywhere.

My personal solution.

The people of Israel awaken to the fact that they are used as pawns by their leaders and those who believe they in control as they attempt to steer towards Armageddon. The people of Israel say. enough is enough, NOT IN MY NAME.


Peace

[Curt]

No longer a useful post.

[Curt]

.....:peep:

[Curt]

............

[Billy]

This was posted in another thread, but i think it also suits this one.

http://www.haaretz.com/opinion/1.610687

My plea to the people of Israel: Liberate yourselves by liberating Palestine
Archbishop Emeritus Desmond Tutu, in an exclusive article for Haaretz, calls for a global boycott of Israel and urges Israelis and Palestinians to look beyond their leaders for a sustainable solution to the crisis in the Holy Land.

The past weeks have witnessed unprecedented action by members of civil society across the world against the injustice of Israel’s disproportionately brutal response to the firing of missiles from Palestine.

If you add together all the people who gathered over the past weekend to demand justice in Israel and Palestine – in Cape Town, Washington, D.C., New York, New Delhi, London, Dublin and Sydney, and all the other cities – this was arguably the largest active outcry by citizens around a single cause ever in the history of the world.

A quarter of a century ago, I participated in some well-attended demonstrations against apartheid. I never imagined we’d see demonstrations of that size again, but last Saturday’s turnout in Cape Town was as big if not bigger. Participants included young and old, Muslims, Christians, Jews, Hindus, Buddhists, agnostics, atheists, blacks, whites, reds and greens ... as one would expect from a vibrant, tolerant, multicultural nation.

I asked the crowd to chant with me: “We are opposed to the injustice of the illegal occupation of Palestine. We are opposed to the indiscriminate killing in Gaza. We are opposed to the indignity meted out to Palestinians at checkpoints and roadblocks. We are opposed to violence perpetrated by all parties. But we are not opposed to Jews.”

Earlier in the week, I called for the suspension of Israel from the International Union of Architects, which was meeting in South Africa.

I appealed to Israeli sisters and brothers present at the conference to actively disassociate themselves and their profession from the design and construction of infrastructure related to perpetuating injustice, including the separation barrier, the security terminals and checkpoints, and the settlements built on occupied Palestinian land.

“I implore you to take this message home: Please turn the tide against violence and hatred by joining the nonviolent movement for justice for all people of the region,” I said.

Over the past few weeks, more than 1.6 million people across the world have signed onto this movement by joining an Avaaz campaign calling on corporations profiting from the Israeli occupation and/or implicated in the abuse and repression of Palestinians to pull out. The campaign specifically targets Dutch pension fund ABP; Barclays Bank; security systems supplier G4S; French transport company Veolia; computer company Hewlett-Packard; and bulldozer supplier Caterpillar.

Last month, 17 EU governments urged their citizens to avoid doing business in or investing in illegal Israeli settlements.

We have also recently witnessed the withdrawal by Dutch pension fund PGGM of tens of millions of euros from Israeli banks; the divestment from G4S by the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation; and the U.S. Presbyterian Church divested an estimated $21 million from HP, Motorola Solutions and Caterpillar.

It is a movement that is gathering pace.

Violence begets violence and hatred, that only begets more violence and hatred.

We South Africans know about violence and hatred. We understand the pain of being the polecat of the world; when it seems nobody understands or is even willing to listen to our perspective. It is where we come from.

We also know the benefits that dialogue between our leaders eventually brought us; when organizations labeled “terrorist” were unbanned and their leaders, including Nelson Mandela, were released from imprisonment, banishment and exile.

We know that when our leaders began to speak to each other, the rationale for the violence that had wracked our society dissipated and disappeared. Acts of terrorism perpetrated after the talks began – such as attacks on a church and a pub – were almost universally condemned, and the party held responsible snubbed at the ballot box.

The exhilaration that followed our voting together for the first time was not the preserve of black South Africans alone. The real triumph of our peaceful settlement was that all felt included. And later, when we unveiled a constitution so tolerant, compassionate and inclusive that it would make God proud, we all felt liberated.

Of course, it helped that we had a cadre of extraordinary leaders.

But what ultimately forced these leaders together around the negotiating table was the cocktail of persuasive, nonviolent tools that had been developed to isolate South Africa, economically, academically, culturally and psychologically.

At a certain point – the tipping point – the then-government realized that the cost of attempting to preserve apartheid outweighed the benefits.

The withdrawal of trade with South Africa by multinational corporations with a conscience in the 1980s was ultimately one of the key levers that brought the apartheid state – bloodlessly – to its knees. Those corporations understood that by contributing to South Africa’s economy, they were contributing to the retention of an unjust status quo.

Those who continue to do business with Israel, who contribute to a sense of “normalcy” in Israeli society, are doing the people of Israel and Palestine a disservice. They are contributing to the perpetuation of a profoundly unjust status quo.

Those who contribute to Israel’s temporary isolation are saying that Israelis and Palestinians are equally entitled to dignity and peace.

Ultimately, events in Gaza over the past month or so are going to test who believes in the worth of human beings.

It is becoming more and more clear that politicians and diplomats are failing to come up with answers, and that responsibility for brokering a sustainable solution to the crisis in the Holy Land rests with civil society and the people of Israel and Palestine themselves.

Read more here. http://www.haaretz.com/opinion/1.610687

peace.

[Curt]

Thanks for sharing this, Billy. That's a great development. I agree wholeheartedly with the intent and aims of Bishop Tutu and those who call for an end to apartheid in Israel.

[pathaka]

By definition, anybody who dislikes global or national zionists (part of the askhenazi jews), cannot hate jews, because genetic jews are arabic palestinians :-)

So,what's left to hate? A group of self-serving non-jews, who use judaism and "being jew" as a shield/masquerade, just like you so aptly demonstrate.

It's a clever plot that.

But it's starting to be quite apparent.

Besides, ashkenazi , jew or something else or not -- I think the bigger lesson we are getting is that hate is not the answer, neither is oppposition/resistance -- it just feeds them. Empowerment, self-authority and disengaging from their game - now that's another thing altogether.

[Curt]

..... Besides, ashkenazi , jew or something else or not -- I think the bigger lesson we are getting is that hate is not the answer, neither is oppposition/resistance -- it just feeds them. Empowerment, self-authority and disengaging from their game - now that's another thing altogether.

Agreed. :)

[Curt]

Wanted to bump this thread as a counterpoint to this one:http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?75045-The-Rise-of-Jewish-Hate-within-the-New-Age-Movement

[Curt]

...iddy bump...:cool:

[Curt]

The exchange below is from another thread here on Avalon: http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?75045-The-Rise-of-Jewish-Hate-within-the-New-Age-Movement


Jews have been hated since forever. And now a new wave of this hate is spreading worldwide - no longer contained to a country like Germany. The new age movement and the alternative news are guilty of feeding this rise of hate. If this doesn't come to an end soon, there will be blood shed due to all the so called "light workers" and "Christians" who are feeding this repeat of history. I ask people to cease and desist on taking sides. This war is a spiritual war and the jewish people are always used as the scapegoats for the demonic forces who are hiding in the shadow.

Please reconsider your anti-Isreal and anti-Zionist posts..as people cannot decipher between the innocent jewish people (99%) and the Zionist illuminati Satanists. The jews are being dragged along again and those so called enlightened folks are doing the same feeding the hate.... just like the Nazi's in Germany. Please cease and desist before this rises to the levels the cabal want..where in the bible it says everyone turns against Isreal. This is a setup by the cabal.

The truth is ...there is sympathy for the Arabs and none for the Jewish nation - which equates to Jews everywhere. The world stands by judging the Jewish people based on their "cruelty" towards the Palestinians, without understanding how they're being provoked - because the photo ops are not of a suffering Israeli people but of dead Palestinian children. So, the truth needs to be told, because many of us "light workers" are now the carriers of disinformation and hate. This creates a very bad scenario and situation for the Jewish people in the very near future, as this movement escalates. Your Jewish friends don't need taking care of now , because everything is still in the organization stages... But, if this goes unchecked, they would have wished someone would have stepped in and corrected the world perception of Jews. We can't let the Fourth Reich birth. It will be worse than the Third and will be unstoppable, as the Arab Nations will make sure to keep fueling the fire.


I have a slightly different take on this. I don't think we should shy away from fair criticisms of Israel or of wrong-headed radical Zionist policies.

But we should be very careful to draw a distinction between 'the Jews’ and 'Zionism'. They're not one in the same. Zionism is a political movement that transcends ethnicity and religion.

It uses 'the Jews' as a collective human shield.

The bizarre theology behind the politics, so far as I can tell, is as follows: Zionism, both Christian and 'Jewish' is based upon a belief that Israel is to be sacrificed in order to bring about a messianic age.

That hardly benefits the average Jew who's going to pay the ultimate price.

We have to recognise that 'the Jews’ by and large, are the collective scapegoat here. They're being set up to take the fall and face destruction.

We have to have the courage to call out radical Zionism’s transgressions. But we should be careful not to conflate 'Jews’ with Zionism while doing so.

This whole drama requires people to hate the Jews. That's part of the play. Don't buy into it. Don't be suckered.

But I do agree with the fundamental premise of your thread: that there is a movement afoot in the alternative community to gin up hatred against 'the Jews’.

It's very evident. The extent to which we buy in to this hatred is the extent to which we fail to have integrity as a community and end up supporting the beast we came here to conquer.

[ThePythonicCow]

Thread closed at request of original poster.