Time to End Career Politicians !

[Deega]

Hi All Avalonians, visitors,

Before we reach 2012, it would be interesting to rethink how long may a politician serve in Congress or House.

It could also apply to Other Democratic Parlements of the world. Here is an interesting link on the subject. I'm sure, everyone of us have interesting suggestions to add to the list in the link.

http://www.rense.com/general92/time.htm

All my blessings.

Deega

[Zook]

Hi Deega,


Hi All Avalonians, visitors,

Before we reach 2012, it would be interesting to rethink how long may a politician serve in Congress or House.

It could also apply to Other Democratic Parlements of the world. Here is an interesting link on the subject. I'm sure, everyone of us have interesting suggestions to add to the list in the link.

http://www.rense.com/general92/time.htm

All my blessings.

Deega

Thread title caught my eye. So my first comment is more of a visceral reaction. End politicians!

Now, that that's off my thumping chest, I would prefer a return to a council of elders situation. Representative democracy does not work in its present design; that's the hard lesson of the last American Century, which has seen the lobby lizards shift the American system from the interests of the people (as it was originally theorized) to the interests of the oligarchs. The system has to be reconstituted in another design, IMO. Re-enter the original aboriginal organizational meme of council of elders. Equal parts man and woman. For example, six men, six women for each population zone representing N-voting persons. N to be decided by what works best. Gender balance for ying and yang, as it were. There would be an annual evaluation of the council, and a plebiscite to decide if any should be removed, a second plebiscite to determine the replacements (if any are needed). Gender balance to be always retained. We have to file tax returns each year, so the argument of too much paperwork is not valid. If things are important enough for society, the people should be committed enough in tandem. There should also be a maximum period of service. For that, I submit the arbitrary number of nine years. After all, it's the gestational period of humans. From seed to birth. Each council member should be given a 9-year gestational period to impart their wisdom, barring annual evaluation and possible removal (for incompetence).

That about sums it up.

:typing:

[Luke]

(...) Re-enter the original aboriginal organizational meme of council of elders. (...)

There are two requirements for it to work
1. Small group, so members know "elders" for all their life. No PR possibility
2. The elders must not have vested interest in privileges. No favours. Where judgement intefreres with emotions or bussiness, not to mention personal wealth, you can expect things to go south.

With such institutions, just as in pre-banking merchant system, honor is the most important thing. Trust. It cannot be replaced by threats nor by transferring blame for decisions to unnamed "majority"

Also, such elders must have large knowledge about big scheme of things. Both World and Spirits. Be stewards of the land.

Damn hard to get, but there are such people. But they steer clear from politics.

[Deega]

Hi Deega,



Thread title caught my eye. So my first comment is more of a visceral reaction. End politicians!

Now, that that's off my thumping chest, I would prefer a return to a council of elders situation. Representative democracy does not work in its present design; that's the hard lesson of the last American Century, which has seen the lobby lizards shift the American system from the interests of the people (as it was originally theorized) to the interests of the oligarchs. The system has to be reconstituted in another design, IMO. Re-enter the original aboriginal organizational meme of council of elders. Equal parts man and woman. For example, six men, six women for each population zone representing N-voting persons. N to be decided by what works best. Gender balance for ying and yang, as it were. There would be an annual evaluation of the council, and a plebiscite to decide if any should be removed, a second plebiscite to determine the replacements (if any are needed). Gender balance to be always retained. We have to file tax returns each year, so the argument of too much paperwork is not valid. If things are important enough for society, the people should be committed enough in tandem. There should also be a maximum period of service. For that, I submit the arbitrary number of nine years. After all, it's the gestational period of humans. From seed to birth. Each council member should be given a 9-year gestational period to impart their wisdom, barring annual evaluation and possible removal (for incompetence).

That about sums it up.

:typing:

Thanks Zookumar, very interesting post, great suggestions, hm!, wonder what other members will add....?

IMHO, I think that most of your suggestions are valide and in respect to the "people".

All my blessings.

Deega

[Deega]

There are two requirements for it to work
1. Small group, so members know "elders" for all their life. No PR possibility
2. The elders must not have vested interest in privileges. No favours. Where judgement intefreres with emotions or bussiness, not to mention personal wealth, you can expect things to go south.

With such institutions, just as in pre-banking merchant system, honor is the most important thing. Trust. It cannot be replaced by threats nor by transferring blame for decisions to unnamed "majority"

Also, such elders must have large knowledge about big scheme of things. Both World and Spirits. Be stewards of the land.

Damn hard to get, but there are such people. But they steer clear from politics.

He! thanks Luke, following on Zookumar post, great!

IMHO, together, we may be able to suggest the Political State of tomorrow....!, maybe it presumptious! unfortunately, the financial world will not adhere to these suggestions.

Other comments invited.

All my blessings.

Deega

[Beth]

Thanks Deega, posted it on my facebook for others to read.

[Ba-ba-Ra]

I love the idea of Council of Elders - However - IMHO we are now too big and too disconnected as communties to make that work., also too divided. I live in a relatively small county and what I see is we've lost our ability to compromise. Has anyone been to a council meeting lately?

As long as we have systems based on Money - the dollar will reign and politicians will continue to pad their own pockets. I liked the Venus Project's idea of a Resource Based Society, but many on this forum found it to be socialistic. So. . . . maybe that's a beginning. Perhaps the Venus Project is not exactly right, but can we build on it? Tweak it to something better. Of course, then there is the problem of how do we make the transition to a better way. THE PTB are not going to give up easily nor are powerful corporations, and we're all locked into needing them for jobs (again $$) - but how to shift away from it I don't know. The only way I can see is Mother Nature taking some drastic steps - not a pleasant thought. HELP UNIVERSE. Perhaps if enough of us focus on how to solve this problem, an answer will come.

[Deega]

Thanks Deega, posted it on my facebook for others to read.

Hey Beth, thanks, it will stimulate comments.

All my blessings.

Deega

[Deega]

I love the idea of Council of Elders - However - IMHO we are now too big and too disconnected as communties to make that work., also too divided. I live in a relatively small county and what I see is we've lost our ability to compromise. Has anyone been to a council meeting lately?

As long as we have systems based on Money - the dollar will reign and politicians will continue to pad their own pockets. I liked the Venus Project's idea of a Resource Based Society, but many on this forum found it to be socialistic. So. . . . maybe that's a beginning. Perhaps the Venus Project is not exactly right, but can we build on it? Tweak it to something better. Of course, then there is the problem of how do we make the transition to a better way. THE PTB are not going to give up easily nor are powerful corporations, and we're all locked into needing them for jobs (again $$) - but how to shift away from it I don't know. The only way I can see is Mother Nature taking some drastic steps - not a pleasant thought. HELP UNIVERSE. Perhaps if enough of us focus on how to solve this problem, an answer will come.

Thanks Ba-ba-Ra, very interesting also!

And you present a realistic logic that is within the challenges that human can tackle...!, hopefully!...or is it within dreamland....?

Also, the constraint of $$$$, maybe if the great minds of today pull together, they might design a new system where the primary value is not $$$, it should be Natural Ressource and Human Beings (People). These great minds could inspired them on Venus Project or other similar one, if any...!

All my blessings.

Deega

[Luke]

I love the idea of Council of Elders - However - IMHO we are now too big and too disconnected as communties to make that work., also too divided. I live in a relatively small county and what I see is we've lost our ability to compromise. Has anyone been to a council meeting lately?
True, but this is symptom. I worked in local govt for some time (enough to turn me fully fledged anarchist). Problem is that current system is a magnet for people craving power or having axe to grind. People in councils are interested in ensuring their pet initiatives or pet businesses will get done. Noone is interested in creating something sustainable. It simply because people willing to go through humiliation of public choice are wired like that. Power. Deeds Wealth. That's why any council is only as good as most depraved person sitting in it. Elders of indigenous people proved by whole their lives that they were worthy of trust and honourable enough to be permitted in council. Current politicians are elected based on their PR stunts from last two weeks.

As long as we have systems based on Money - the dollar will reign and politicians will continue to pad their own pockets. I liked the Venus Project's idea of a Resource Based Society, but many on this forum found it to be socialistic. (...).
Socialistic is not said enough. I say crazy system that will result in nazi-like slaughter because of ignoring basic laws of Nature.But that is not place for that rant.

Money- a tool for energy exchange never was a problem. People believing that "Money" is "God" are. That IS the problem- completely twisted sense of value. Of anything. You cannot build anything if you do not hold sane values.
Anything you do is energy- a flow. Things flow, and if people hold true values- the flow is smooth. Get some crazy ideas - whirlpools form sucking out all the effort. With things people now think have value, we basically created black hole here .. and IMO there are entities out there very happy about it.

Right values means morality- but not in sense church teach them, but in a sense of engineer choosing structural columns for the building. How to make stuff that will last and will serve it's purpose. That is morality. That is what is completely lacking. No technology will replace it. Neither will make-believe casino chips.

Actually, I feel that morality in above sense is perquisite for creating right technology and society. Can't have one without the others. That's why I do not care about black project's technology. Their tech is tailored to the morals of the ones that wield them- damn parasites. And if one allows himself to be parasite- then I do not want to have anything to do with such a man.

Perhaps if enough of us focus on how to solve this problem, an answer will come.
Agreed. :) We just need to keep channel clear from all that "easy solutions" that are plain Trojan Horses. Solutions will come if we allow them to manifest. Forcing their hand will only bring more harm.

[42]

Politicians are like diapers and should be changed for the same reason....

[Luke]

Politicians are like diapers and should be changed for the same reason....
Well. Diapers are usually clean at the start.. Can't say that about politicians.

[Deega]

Thanks Luke, another interesting reply, hm!, we're making headway here!, I will add a few comments.

[QUOTE]Problem is that current system is a magnet for people craving power or having axe to grind. People in councils are interested in ensuring their pet initiatives or pet businesses will get done. Noone is interested in creating something sustainable.

Yes!, I have seen this also, would our 3rd dimensional dualistic perspective have anything to do here....?


Power. Deeds Wealth.

We know the source of the problem, how may we work on this..., and how may we go about....?, if at all possible for our time...!


Elders of indigenous people proved by whole their lives that they were worthy of trust and honourable enough to be permitted in council.

I guess we have a lot of things to learn here...!


Money- a tool for energy exchange never was a problem. People believing that "Money" is "God" are.

Yeah!, how do we go about telling people that money is only a "mean of exchange"....! We have seen that money bring power, bring material things, give illusion, bring continue unsatisfaction..., and on....! What may we do....?, such that money hold it right for exchanges and people who hold more should give more also..., am I in the dreamland....?, how to enforce such a thing....?


Anything you do is energy- a flow.

Well said, like it!


With things people now think have value, we basically created black hole here .. and IMO there are entities out there very happy about it.

Hmmm!, how right you are...!


Right values means morality- but not in sense church teach them, but in a sense of engineer choosing structural columns for the building.

A lot of people have this saying, probably junior politicians, any suggestions on how to entice intelligently people of all level within this mind framework....?

And if we aligned morallity (honour to people) with technology, some ground gained probably..., good point, I don't know how it might take hold with the Financial World resisting...!, don't know!

Members share your thoughts on this!

All my blessings.

Deega

[Lost Soul]

Politicians are like diapers and should be changed for the same reason....

Concur. Never vote for the same scallywag twice. The rascal stole enough money the first time. I've never voted for Feinstein because I remember how San Francisco had a surplus of $124 million which she spent in one year.:eek: That was fiscally irresponsible. Pelosi was an unknown who rose to power because Sala Burton died. Being a good fundraiser, she got the nod from the party and since then has increased her fortune since becoming an elected official. As for Boxer who bounced checks, failed to declare her mansion in the Oakland hills, Madame Senator needs to return to the masses.

[grannyfranny100]

What would encourage honorable people to go to D.C. and serve the people? If we could find out, we might discover if term limits and no lobbying are the answers. What would you require to serve the people?

Granny Franny

[Deega]

What would encourage honorable people to go to D.C. and serve the people? If we could find out, we might discover if term limits and no lobbying are the answers. What would you require to serve the people?

Granny Franny

Thanks Grannyfranny, hmm!, weight on my shoulder!, here is a few comments.

I don't have the answer and I think that nobody and maybe everybody have it..., sound paradoxal...!

Nobody have it, - IMHO, first, we are third dimensional dualistic being, on the positive side, we are creator, continuously, we are by nature competitive to find our place in the sun, and that is great!

On the negative side (my statement) we are in a politicoeconomic system where value is put on "money", not people!

And when you have it (money), one feel that he has power, he has influence, he has the world around him/her, and when you think about it, don't we strive for that, to be respected, loved, etc.

So, IMHO, I think that whoever is elected in office, time will run him/her over..., unfortunately!

Maybe everybody have it..., if we could give ourselves more important values than money as motivator to create, and all the people would accept these, maybe, maybe, together, we could make a different, I'm probably in the dreamland here...!

As you see, I don't have the answer, but at lease, the comments may incite you to reply for the benefit of others.

All my blessings.

Deega

[Ba-ba-Ra]

Socialistic is not said enough. I say crazy system that will result in nazi-like slaughter because of ignoring basic laws of Nature.But that is not place for that rant.



Hi Luke, I'm trying to gain some understanding of how you feel that a resource based society would result in nazi-like slaughter.

[Luke]

Hi Luke, I'm trying to gain some understanding of how you feel that a resource based society would result in nazi-like slaughter.
Please refer to discussion here: http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?3311-The-Zeitgeist-Movement-and-the-Venus-Project&highlight=venus+project
especially post #10, #19
Basically we are talking about centralized society that would need to result to force or brainwashing to implement ideas of philisopher-kings, that decide who gets share of what. Every such society in the past proved to be murderous one, no matter how good their ideas sounded for "useful idiots", as Lenin called western intellectuals , supporting his regime (about the time he decided it would be socially useful to starve some farmers via "war economy" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_famine_of_1921)) . Careful when evaluating words and their meaning, as what looks "good" on the outside can be rotten when you see inside works.

You should also refer to Huxley's "Brave New World" (http://www.amazon.com/Brave-New-World-Aldous-Huxley/dp/0060850523/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1288333288&sr=8-1) for example of how such "scientific regime" would work.

[jackovesk]

Hi All Avalonians, visitors,

Before we reach 2012, it would be interesting to rethink how long may a politician serve in Congress or House.

It could also apply to Other Democratic Parlements of the world. Here is an interesting link on the subject. I'm sure, everyone of us have interesting suggestions to add to the list in the link.

http://www.rense.com/general92/time.htm

All my blessings.

Deega

I'll probably get into trouble for this, BUT the world has seen TOO much DEATH in the name of the Controlling Elite and Oligarchy who for 100's of years have condemed Humankind to Repression & Slavery, which I might add, every single one of us is under their contol whether you like it or not! Don't believe me? If you work, you pay taxes don't you? If you work and don't pay taxes, you still have to live under their Draconian Laws don't you?

Hence my Solution to Politicians...If You Lie...You Die! It might sound a little harsh, but hear me out!

99.9% of Human Beings, Don't Want Wars, Repression, Slavery, Inequality, Corruption, Dictators, Corpocracy, Fascism, etc, etc!

If you are an Elected Politician, By The People for the People!

And continually SMACK US IN THE FACE WITH CONTINUAL "LIES & DECIEPT"

I Repeat...In the Future...

When the Good People of the Earth get their Planet Back!

No Matter who you are! IF YOU LIE, YOU DIE!

I am speaking on behalf of the MILLIONS of our fellow HumanBeings who have been slaughtered in UNNCESSARY Wars, Mamed by Big Pharma and their Drugs, Blatantly Lied to by Satanic MoFos from Hell, etc, etc!

Get The Message AHOLES! We have Had Enough!!!

[kcw_one]

Good thread, however I think all of these things have been figured on and figured on for a long long time. In the grade 6 social studies curriculum that I am required to "teach" way up here in Alberta Canada, the entire focus is on democracy (the Canadian version at least). The "four pillars of democracy", as the textbook puts it, are justice, equity, freedom and representation. Had any of those things lately? According to the thought bacteria that is forced on our kids, our modern version of democracy is modelled after that which existed in Athens around 3000 years ago or so. Intersting to note that Athenian society consisted of citizens (those born in Athens), metics (free residents, born elsewhere) and slaves. Of these groups, the only ones allowed to participate in decisionmaking were the male citizens. Male land-owning citizens. Voting only on decisions put before them by a rotating council. In poking deeper into the democratic process to be better able to de-bamboozle the young ones I teach, I've come to notice how the system exists merely to legitimize the organized crime of the ruling elite. Legislation is created by those we vote into power (nearly all of them either businesspeople or lawyers) and they dream up new laws to make themselves richer while screwing the rest of us a little more each term of office.

When I read ideas about how to replace the current system with one that is better, I always wonder "better for whom?". Yes, we'd all like to see an end to war and corruption and blabbety blah, but aside from that humans of our time have an interesting predilection for not agreeing on anything much. Our ideas of government are all based on some kind of control, be it benevolent or something else. We have this annoying habit of wanting to control the actions of others.

We are moving out of a reality of duality towards something where there aren't such extremes as we have now. Any world like the one we live in now will not be able to find any sort of government that is acceptable by everyone; the best we can hope for is one that satisfies a greater majority of people. This will always leave a minority of people disaffected by the current regime, no matter how warm and fuzzy it is. As long as our reality has Such extremes of duality as it's major hallmark, there will always be factions who want control as other factions want freedom. Some that want war, and others that want peace. It's the nature of this game.

I get the sentiment of avalonians who want change. We want to be free of opressive pooheads and their systems of rules. But IMO government is not the answer. Government of any kind is about control, no matter how pretty it looks. What will emerge instead, once the dust settles and the masses awaken (at least those who are not lured offworld into spaceships or stargatez or some such) we'll find that yes we need to organize somewhat to get stuff done. But this will happen organically with people who come forward to GET STUFF DONE rather than those who intend to control for their own gain.

The anarchists have a bit of the right idea, what with getting rid of the government and it's meddling, but they don't seem to be able to see past that. Humans need a system to organize communal behavior -- we just need to be able to organize those systems for ourselves rather than have them imposed on us. Crazy as it sounds, we have no business controlling each others behavior. Even reasonable sounding laws are the threads if the ropes that we've woven to bind ourselves into slavery.

[Fredkc]

Having said as much, several times, 'tis nice to read it from anyone else.

thanks, KCW

[Ross]

The only system I see working for the good of all, this includes all species we share our world with, is a complete 'service to others', on all levels.

The mentality of 'I want' 'me' is the major problem, on all levels. Starts at the top and works its way through to the bottom levels of all societies. Has been the way for eons and it does not work.

Definition of insanity: Repeating the same thing over and over again expecting a different result...Albert E.

Get rid of the 'seperated mindset' and to understand we are all the same on so many levels and our objective of 'living' should be to help, give and to comfort all, for the common goal of a greif free, equal existence.

We are in fact quite insane....imo;)

Regards

Ross

[Deega]

The only system I see working for the good of all, this includes all species we share our world with, is a complete 'service to others', on all levels.

The mentality of 'I want' 'me' is the major problem, on all levels. Starts at the top and works its way through to the bottom levels of all societies. Has been the way for eons and it does not work.

Definition of insanity: Repeating the same thing over and over again expecting a different result...Albert E.

Get rid of the 'seperated mindset' and to understand we are all the same on so many levels and our objective of 'living' should be to help, give and to comfort all, for the common goal of a greif free, equal existence.

We are in fact quite insane....imo;)

Regards

Ross

Thanks Ross for the post, Yes!, I think you're right!

But how may we achieved this...?

How do we set our standard of values such that in every things we do, we have the "served to others" that popup as a reminder!

Priesthood, Sisterhood have been doing (not all pedophile, or other denouced vices) service to others, would we need another form of religion (service to others) to foster this applied philosophical thinking....?, debateable doesn't....?

All my blessings.

Deega

[Ross]

In this sense 'service to others' does not include a 'pay off' at the end of ones life...Religeous doctrine.


Priesthood, Sisterhood have been doing (not all pedophile, or other denouced vices) service to others, would we need another form of religion (service to others) to foster this applied philosophical thinking....

The pay off is: while you are taking care of others, others are taking care of you...here and now.:cool:

Regards

Ross

[kcw_one]

The concept of "service to others" is one not well understood IMO by many in the new-agey circles. I include myself in this, as I think my current perspective is limited by where I am at "spiritually" or whatever. I suppose STO would be a dissolution of the illusion of separation between oneself and the universe at large for a perspective where one knows that one is both an individual being but also that one cannot be considered separate from ALL THAT IS. In serving, one is merely expressing love in a form where they contribute something of value to another. I'm not sure if this is a realistic condition that one could experience in a place like we have right now. Seems to me like a condition that would have to be the norm of the reality, making a system, if you want to call it that, where everyone just shares and helps each other, doing whatever they do best or like to do for it's own sake, no worrying about ****e like paychecks and bills and such. Totally unfathomable for the earth in it's current state, but I think this is something we can look forward to after the Great Change.

This kind of state would make government unnecessary and almost profane. Why would anyone need a rule or a law to tell them to do what is right? ALL beings in this universe know right from wrong.

[Luke]

(...) This kind of state would make government unnecessary and almost profane. Why would anyone need a rule or a law to tell them to do what is right? ALL beings in this universe know right from wrong.
Yep.
For me this this the most important discerment: if one describe himself as "an aspect of infinity" or does one want to be ruler of infinity.

If you want to rule then you acknowledge that there is fundamental difference between you, the ruler and those ruled. Difference that cannot be overcome. Difference that says you are allowed things they can't . Privilege.

On the other hand, you can see things as part of the same flow that is you. Only difference is how much things choose to be differentiated at given point/perspective .. and that is constantly changing, just as you are changing. In the end, when your perspective broadens, things are not that different at all, because ultimately there is one Flow. You can't rule things because you ARE all those things.

Thus two ways seem to be: one seeks to broaden its identificaton with flow, the other wants to freeze the flow in order to rule it. Still, thermal death means unity too.

[kcw_one]

Nicely said Luke. This brings to mind an aspect of the elite set and their ideas of divine rule and whatnot. A concept where one is somehow superior to another in some capacity, with the need to use that as justification for control, oppressive or otherwise. The height of separation IMO. this of course exists in some form in all of us at current, expressed as benignly as ruling over ones children as opposed to guiding them. Not to say that one is 'good' and the other 'bad'. Judgements like that serve only to further polarize these aspects of being. As the pendulum swings to such extremes, one would hope that these things can at last be healed on our planet so we can move forward and experience something else entirely.