Quantum Physics, the Double Slit Experiment and the Inseperability of Matter and Consciousness.

[Jake]

I am going to explain a bit, from my perspective,, some of the implications of the experimentation that is going on in the Quantum Physics World. I am not a physicist, but many of these concepts ring to me,,, like a Bell...

Anyone who thinks that we DO NOT create our own realities,, is going to have a hard time with this. Earth Humans only have a tiny sphere of knowledge to base their attitudes regarding reality. I say Attitudes, because it is attitudes and emotional bias that is keeping humans from embracing the implications of Quantum Mechanics. People cite 'victimization' and 'circumstance' as a doorway to completely turn a blind eye to the implications of what we have discovered. Whereas, victimization and circumstance must be addressed,, I'd rather we didn't simply turn our backs on these amazing implications altogether. :)

Bruce Lipton has said in his research (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jjj0xVM4x1I)that his entire world view changed (regarding teaching and understanding DNA) when he realized that we are NOT predisposed to diseases simply based on genetics, and that it the ENVIRONMENT that is the catalyst for the development of cells, NOT the DNA. On the human level, PERCEPTION of our environment is what is leading the way,, not DNA. The whole point being that we are not predisposed to a certain outcome, based on DNA,, it is our environment, ie,, our perception that is creating our evolutionary chain. On the cellular level, protein chains, amino acids,, etc,,, looking to the DNA to deal with changes in its ENVIRONMENT. At the human level, the environment is our PERCEPTION of it. Which means that we are creating our biological evolution based on our perceptions of reality...

Okay, simple enough..

By now, you've all seen or heard about the 'Double Slit Experiment'. The superposition of all probable outcomes, does not break down into a single outcome until it is 'forced' to, by OBSERVATION. Ie,, matter does not come into 'existence' until it is engaged by an observing consciousness. There is NO way around it. All possibilities exist simultaneously until a single probability is 'forced' by observation..

That is not the strange part.. Though very strange.. Consider this:

There has been more modern experiments with the Double Slit. In the original version, the observing measurement was taken just before the bucky-balls approached the slits, as to see exactly what happened, which caused the collapse of the wave which freaked everybody out! So what happened when they observing measurement was taken just after the plate with the slits??? A similar outcome but with much stranger implications. The wave function had collapsed, and we observed small particles and not a wave. Hmmmmm... This would mean that the wave function, and all potentials collapsed into a single probability,, again,,, by being observed,, but it was NOT being observed before it hit the slits,,, so how does the wave function collapse BEFORE the slits and BEFORE it is being observed??? So not only does the superimposed wavelike function act like it 'knows' that it is being watched,,, but it also acts like it know that it is 'going to be watched',, and behaves like a particle BEFORE it is observed,,, as if the observing consciousness caused the waveform to travel back in time, and behave as EXPECTED, rather than a simple forced outcome, based on observation...

Okay, now...


Schrodengers Cat??


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IOYyCHGWJq4


So a picture begins to emerge. All probabilities and outcomes exist simultaneously in superposition to each other. No single probability exists until forced to by an observing consciousness. All realities are being created with an entire history behind them, even though they are created, moment to moment... All of reality is created and destroyed and recreated,, and we see it as the 'passing of moments',, as time does not exist unless observed either. (Time being merely the rate at which we perceive change..)

I don't think there is a real question of wether or not we create our realities.. I think it more of a question of how do we take the reigns, and learn to be a player in this game, rather than a passive observer..

Love to all
Jake.

[naste.de.lumina]

So, consciousness is the cause of the multiverse (perception of matter) and no effect.

It also means that if there is no pre-existence of consciousness that collapses the wave function, there will be no matter who may die or live.

[Skyhaven]

Good one Jake! Although I wouldn't say we create our physical reality entirely, I would say we can influence our physical reality to a great extent by our intent (focused consciousness).

[Jake]

So, consciousness is the cause of the multiverse (perception of matter) and no effect.

It also means that if there is no pre-existence of consciousness that collapses the wave function, there will be no matter who may die or live.

I can see consciousness as spheres pulsing outward from a great center. Pulsing outward in endless spheres of 'knowing'. The 'act of observing', (ie,, questioning different aspects of itself,,) is not the only function of consciousness,, no siree!! :) Observing, and existing are not the same thing. The fact that (in the second double slit experiment) the waveform collapsed BEFORE it was observed, means (to me) that there is a higher consciousness than the 'observing' part, (which is the 'creating and experiencing' function of consciousness,,) and that the 'observer' becomes limited in scope to its physical perspective, in order to properly OBSERVE. All of this requires a basic acceptance of a higher form of consciousness, and science has everyone convinced that we are only what we observe,,, and that is completely flawed.. We CREATE what we observe, and it all tracks back to a 'Higher Self',, which is not something that folks are ready to embrace. Again, religion and science have led us astray...

I foresee a world where we teach 'physics' in 'philosophy' class.. lol... :) I know that physicality is a point of view,,, I can't 'unknow' it... I also know that different spheres of consciousness can bleed through to one another,, and that the life forces within them will interact with ours (our sphere of consciousness..)

The fact that we create each moment as they come,,, means that this game is NOT over... :) Not by a long shot!! :) We still have some amazing things to discover about ourselves. It is going to be fun!!! I can guarantee it!!! The inner struggle that each one of us must take is not in vein... (There is a prized at the end!!!! giggle giggle...)

Jake.

[Jake]

Good one Jake! Although I wouldn't say we create our physical reality entirely, I would say we can influence our physical reality to a great extent by our intent (focused consciousness).

Focused consciousness and intent are the ways to take back the reigns. But I say it still,,, we DO create it.. I think what we may be disagreeing on is wether or not we create the 'circumstances' within our creation... ie,, are we the 'observer' (the dreamer) or do we take a more active role as the 'dreamer',, and become lucid/awake in the dream???

Consider a dream, for a moment. Aren't dreams our own creation? Isn't a dream an 'observation' that we are making regarding ourselves and/or the world around us? Do we not create a dreamscape so that at some level, we can work out some of the vital parts of ourselves that our physical minds can't tackle? So when we are dreaming, and I stub my foot on a sofa,,, why then does it hurt?? My foot is not real,, the sofa is not real.. Where does the pain come from? This is not a physical place, so then what makes it physical?? I'll tell you what makes it physical,,, the fact that we have not 'woken up', and realized that it was a dream!!

Yes, we create it. Again, the real question is how do we become lucid in the dream,, ie,, how do we begin to recreate the circumstances in a way that better reflect a reality that is preferred,, how do we become active in the dream, and not just an observer....

I'm not discounting your input. Thank you very much,, :)

Cheers
Jake.

[Skyhaven]

but it also acts like it know that it is 'going to be watched',, and behaves like a particle BEFORE it is observed

Well isn't that intent then? I believe the intent is already subconsciously there before it bubbles up into our awareness, and since our subconsciousness is linked to all consciousness (also present in matter too) there is direct effect on the focused subject before the intent is carried out by the actor.

[Jake]

but it also acts like it know that it is 'going to be watched',, and behaves like a particle BEFORE it is observed

Well isn't that intent then? I believe the intent is already subconsciously there before it bubbles up into our awareness, and since our subconsciousness is linked to all consciousness (also present in matter too) there is direct effect on the focused subject before the intent is carried out by the actor.

Ha! Agreed! You are waaayyy ahead of me. :) Yes, in a nutshell, that is where I am coming from. So can we say that 'intent'+'observation'='Creation'+'Experience' ??

:):)
Jake

[Skyhaven]

but it also acts like it know that it is 'going to be watched',, and behaves like a particle BEFORE it is observed

Well isn't that intent then? I believe the intent is already subconsciously there before it bubbles up into our awareness, and since our subconsciousness is linked to all consciousness (also present in matter too) there is direct effect on the focused subject before the intent is carried out by the actor.

Ha! Agreed! You are waaayyy ahead of me. :) Yes, in a nutshell, that is where I am coming from. So can we say that 'intent'+'observation'='Creation'+'Experience' ??

:):)
Jake

:) I'm not sure if we are on the same level when it comes to the Creation part, some mean by this that their consciousness is creating the physical stuff by observing it. My stance is that matter (and its consciousness) is there, if we are observing or intending to experience it or not. However if we do intend to interact with it then we can influence it...

[Skyhaven]

Well isn't that intent then? I believe the intent is already subconsciously there before it bubbles up into our awareness, and since our subconsciousness is linked to all consciousness (also present in matter too) there is direct effect on the focused subject before the intent is carried out by the actor.

Also I believe this is like this so that the matter (the outside world) can reflect back to us a reaction based upon our intention.

[Jake]

but it also acts like it know that it is 'going to be watched',, and behaves like a particle BEFORE it is observed

Well isn't that intent then? I believe the intent is already subconsciously there before it bubbles up into our awareness, and since our subconsciousness is linked to all consciousness (also present in matter too) there is direct effect on the focused subject before the intent is carried out by the actor.

Ha! Agreed! You are waaayyy ahead of me. :) Yes, in a nutshell, that is where I am coming from. So can we say that 'intent'+'observation'='Creation'+'Experience' ??

:):)
Jake

:) I'm not sure if we are on the same level when it comes to the Creation part, some mean by this that their consciousness is creating the physical stuff by observing it. My stance is that matter (and its consciousness) is there despite we are observing or intending to experience it or not. However if we do intend to interact with it then we can influence it...

Interesting.. Yes, we are not too far off from our different views. :) Have you ever had a deja vu?? (Silly question, of course you have) What exactly were you experiencing? A memory of a dream? A prediction that came true? Or was it a Creation,,, and the experience thereof?? There seems to be some confusion within the physics world. I say that matter IS consciousness, and that reality is more 'dreamlike' in that it seems physical, until we 'wake up'..

In fact, physicists are just now diving head over hills into this river of thought. What they are saying is that consciousness is matter, or can be explained in those terms.. Very soon,, they will show that matter is consciousness, and not the other way around.

Max Tegmark, Physicist at Cornell University has advanced a new theory...

Consciousness as a State of Matter

Max Tegmark (MIT)

(Submitted on 6 Jan 2014 (v1), last revised 27 Feb 2014 (this version, v2))

We examine the hypothesis that consciousness can be understood as a state of matter, "perceptronium", with distinctive information processing abilities. We explore five basic principles that may distinguish conscious matter from other physical systems such as solids, liquids and gases: the information, integration, independence, dynamics and utility principles. If such principles can identify conscious entities, then they can help solve the quantum factorization problem: why do conscious observers like us perceive the particular Hilbert space factorization corresponding to classical space (rather than Fourier space, say), and more generally, why do we perceive the world around us as a dynamic hierarchy of objects that are strongly integrated and relatively independent? Tensor factorization of matrices is found to play a central role, and our technical results include a theorem about Hamiltonian separability (defined using Hilbert-Schmidt superoperators) being maximized in the energy eigenbasis. Our approach generalizes Giulio Tononi's integrated information framework for neural-network-based consciousness to arbitrary quantum systems, and we find interesting links to error-correcting codes, condensed matter criticality, and the Quantum Darwinism program, as well as an interesting connection between the emergence of consciousness and the emergence of time.

Perceptronium: perceptronium, []the most general substance that feels subjectively self-aware. This substance should not only be able to store and process information but in a way that forms a unified, indivisible whole. That also requires a certain amount of independence in which the information dynamics is determined from within rather than externally.

Computronium: the conscious storage and retrieval of information..


These guys are way off, but it is a start. IMHO... At least they are willing to consider consciousness in there thinking regarding physics.

Sometimes, it is just a dream that I have no control over. Sometimes,,, I become lucid and alive and so does the dream...

Jake.

[Jake]

Here is an example where I used focus and intent to create reality directly!!!


I was part of a small mediation group in the late 80's. I was only 14 years old. It was in Yelm, WA, on the JZKnight/Ramtha complex. I was young and naive. We were sitting in a guided mediation, and instructed to visualize a flower. A flower in the palms of our hands... any kind of flower,, any color... etc... This went on for about 45 minutes before we were gently eased out of the meditation...

Long story short: I sat there for 45 minutes creating this flower,, it was a rose,,, it was not red. Green and Purple, actually. I visualized the stem,, the part where it broke off,, the thorns,, the colors,,, tempurature in my hand,,,, everything...

I was disapointed because we were going to manifist our thoughts into reality,,, and we left empty handed. pun intended.

About 4 years later, i was helping fashion some 'thank you' packages for a group in high school,,, we were making little flower arrangements... (we made over 200 of them) Hard to describe the next part,,, it felt like a DejaVu,,, but much more intense. I looked down in my hand,,, and there was my flower!!! The one that I created in mediation... All at once time seemed to stop for me... it was intense!!!! It was exactly how i created it... looking down in my physical hand, was the rose that i created in my imagination!!! It changed everything for me. I realized that a Dejavu is not an example of when we 'predicted' reality,,, it is an example of when we 'created' it. From a dream,or from a meditation,,, And the entirety of our realities are created from a perspective that we are rarely aware of....


We do create our realities.

Jake.

[naste.de.lumina]

Replace 'observer' to 'participant'.

[Skyhaven]

but it also acts like it know that it is 'going to be watched',, and behaves like a particle BEFORE it is observed

Well isn't that intent then? I believe the intent is already subconsciously there before it bubbles up into our awareness, and since our subconsciousness is linked to all consciousness (also present in matter too) there is direct effect on the focused subject before the intent is carried out by the actor.

Ha! Agreed! You are waaayyy ahead of me. :) Yes, in a nutshell, that is where I am coming from. So can we say that 'intent'+'observation'='Creation'+'Experience' ??

:):)
Jake

:) I'm not sure if we are on the same level when it comes to the Creation part, some mean by this that their consciousness is creating the physical stuff by observing it. My stance is that matter (and its consciousness) is there despite we are observing or intending to experience it or not. However if we do intend to interact with it then we can influence it...

Interesting.. Yes, we are not too far off from our different views. :) Have you ever had a deja vu?? (Silly question, of course you have) What exactly were you experiencing? A memory of a dream? A prediction that came true? Or was it a Creation,,, and the experience thereof?? There seems to be some confusion within the physics world. I say that matter IS consciousness, and that reality is more 'dreamlike' in that it seems physical, until we 'wake up'..

In fact, physicists are just now diving head over hills into this river of thought. What they are saying is that consciousness is matter, or can be explained in those terms.. Very soon,, they will show that matter is consciousness, and not the other way around.

Max Tegmark, Physicist at Cornell University has advanced a new theory...

Consciousness as a State of Matter

Max Tegmark (MIT)

(Submitted on 6 Jan 2014 (v1), last revised 27 Feb 2014 (this version, v2))

We examine the hypothesis that consciousness can be understood as a state of matter, "perceptronium", with distinctive information processing abilities. We explore five basic principles that may distinguish conscious matter from other physical systems such as solids, liquids and gases: the information, integration, independence, dynamics and utility principles. If such principles can identify conscious entities, then they can help solve the quantum factorization problem: why do conscious observers like us perceive the particular Hilbert space factorization corresponding to classical space (rather than Fourier space, say), and more generally, why do we perceive the world around us as a dynamic hierarchy of objects that are strongly integrated and relatively independent? Tensor factorization of matrices is found to play a central role, and our technical results include a theorem about Hamiltonian separability (defined using Hilbert-Schmidt superoperators) being maximized in the energy eigenbasis. Our approach generalizes Giulio Tononi's integrated information framework for neural-network-based consciousness to arbitrary quantum systems, and we find interesting links to error-correcting codes, condensed matter criticality, and the Quantum Darwinism program, as well as an interesting connection between the emergence of consciousness and the emergence of time.

Perceptronium: perceptronium, []the most general substance that feels subjectively self-aware. This substance should not only be able to store and process information but in a way that forms a unified, indivisible whole. That also requires a certain amount of independence in which the information dynamics is determined from within rather than externally.

Computronium: the conscious storage and retrieval of information..


These guys are way off, but it is a start. IMHO... At least they are willing to consider consciousness in there thinking regarding physics.

Sometimes, it is just a dream that I have no control over. Sometimes,,, I become lucid and alive and so does the dream...

Jake.

I'm not sure what a Deja Vu is, very synchronistic of you to bring to up now, this morning I've actually thought about deja vu's. I think it's caused by the same mechanism just described: it is the awareness that the subconscious has already experienced what your about to experience because the future experience is anticipated by the subconscious.

I find it very difficult to reason based on abstract meanings like consciousness. Some equate what is called the Unified field with a sea of consciousness. The Unified field is coined by scientist to be at the basis of everything, in short it is the field that connects everything. Some call this the field of God-consciousness, or the one who is aware of everything, through everything.

But then there's also individualized consciousness, the type we humans have. It is hooked up to the big grid of consciousness, yet it creates the illusion of separateness to create a contrived situation of learning, so that we are repeatedly confronted with what we put out into the world (the mechanism of what we put out is what we get back)

[joeecho]

As a visual person you got to love the white board for complex ideas! :)

http://www.school-clipart.com/school_clipart_images/a_smiling_female_teacher_holding_a_textbook_and_pointing_to_the_whiteboard_0521-1005-1515-0858_SMU.jpg

[Jake]

Material fact vs Belief,, (Science vs Religion.) Consciousness isn't 'physical'.. Science cannot go outside of what is not physical,, ie, what can be measured... Now we have scientific 'belief', defining reality, and how we think.. NASA Physicist and fellow Pioneer in the OBE and consciousness,, Tom Campbell explains modern 'mind/matter' experimentation forces physicists into a world that is not 'physical'. The fear amongst scientists may lie in the 'belief' that if we cannot go forward (with regards physical measurement and particle physics) then we are bound to go BACK to the old 'belief system',, dogmatic/fear based religious mindset. Yet, there is no reason that we cannot go FORWARD. Particle physics is like a set of 'training wheels' for your bike, when you are a kid.. Those training wheels must come off,, if you are ever going to 'ride free, like the big kids'.. :):):) Please do not misunderstand me... If you do not agree with what I am saying, that doesn't mean that I think you are a kid, or childish,,, no way.. :) I am only referring to our current condition as humans as being childlike, in that we have no clue (overall) how fast, and how profound the 'potentials' are, that are about to dawn on us!! (Remember here that 'potentials' only break superposition when 'observation' forces it to..)

Tom Campbell can explain it a bit better than I...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UxMPXpYqtlA

There is enough evidence in modern experimentation (IMHO) to conclude that physical reality starts and ends from the non-physical,, NOT the other way around..

Jake.

[Skyhaven]

Material fact vs Belief,, (Science vs Religion.) Consciousness isn't 'physical'.. Science cannot go outside of what is not physical,, ie, what can be measured... Now we have scientific 'belief', defining reality, and how we think.. NASA Physicist and fellow Pioneer in the OBE and consciousness,, Tom Campbell explains modern 'mind/matter' experimentation forces physicists into a world that is not 'physical'. The fear amongst scientists may lie in the 'belief' that if we cannot go forward (with regards physical measurement and particle physics) then we are bound to go BACK to the old 'belief system',, dogmatic/fear based religious mindset. Yet, there is no reason that we cannot go FORWARD. Particle physics is like a set of 'training wheels' for your bike, when you are a kid.. Those training wheels must come off,, if you are ever going to 'ride free, like the big kids'.. :):):) Please do not misunderstand me... If you do not agree with what I am saying, that doesn't mean that I think you are a kid, or childish,,, no way.. :) I am only referring to our current condition as humans as being childlike, in that we have no clue (overall) how fast, and how profound the 'potentials' are, that are about to dawn on us!! (Remember here that 'potentials' only break superposition when 'observation' forces it to..)

Tom Campbell can explain it a bit better than I...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UxMPXpYqtlA

There is enough evidence in modern experimentation (IMHO) to conclude that physical reality starts and ends from the non-physical,, NOT the other way around..

Jake.

I don't see it as a 'versus' thing... for me the science (quantum physics) mostly is an incredible catalyst to move into a new more valid belief system. Quantum Physics has actually broken the materialistic newtonian model of separateness. I believe science has the potential to dive even more deeper into the spirit realm. We only need another genius to make a new leap. And there will be new geniuses, simply because (human) consciousness is forever expanding. http://www.allsmileys.com/files/kolobok/icq/37.gif

[Jake]

I don't see it as a 'versus' thing... for me the science (quantum physics) mostly is an incredible catalyst to move into a new more valid belief system. Quantum Physics has actually broken the materialistic newtonian model of separateness. I believe science has the potential to dive even more deeper into the spirit realm. We only need another genius to make a new leap. And there will be new geniuses, simply because (human) consciousness is forever expanding. http://www.allsmileys.com/files/kolobok/icq/37.gif

Indeed, I don't see it as a 'vs' thing either. But the dogmatic elements of science DO see it that way, and likening scientists to PRIESTS of the modern day,, is a good comparison,, in that we have given them the authority to push their BELIEFS onto us... The broadening of our scope (Points of view) to encompass a more integrated relationship between the physical, and the non-physical is inevitable.

Much experimentation is occurring!!! And we will push through... :):)

Princeton Engineering Anomalous Research (http://www.princeton.edu/~pear/) is one of the leaders in bridging the gap between the physical, and non-physical..

They have taken Random Event Generators (REG) and began experimenting with these devices, and documenting the 'randomness' of patters,, with regards direct, or non-direct human focus and/or interaction.. The results are fascinating... :):) They are getting very sophisticated results.. They are measuring and quantifying (what they are calling) 'conscious fields',, as they effect the R.E.G. A detailed experimentation into these phenomenon is underway... You can't get much more scientific than this... Here is a PDF,, explaining the hypothesis... There is no longer a question of IF consciousness creates the matter and the reality,, the question is 'how do begin to control the reality that superposition collapses into'? There is no IF!!! These experiments with technological devices are showing that the physical process, and the 'information' that are the variables/potentials are greatly effected by 'thought fields' and 'consciousness fields'... (Other scientists are doing similar research with plants/nature...:))

http://www.princeton.edu/~pear/pdfs/1998-fieldreg-ii-consciousness-field-effects.pdf


This company here (http://www.psyleron.com/) has taken the REG devices and put them in your own hand for experimentation...

Here is the next step,,, mark my word...

What if a company were to put out a device that we could 'entrain' our minds with,,, so that whenever we thought about the device,, it would detect it,, and it would 'flip a switch'...??? I might have to spend 5 or 6 hours entraining my mind to the device, but after I did,, every time that I thought about the device, it would switch,, ie,,,, turn on a light, or unlock a door,, etc.... Do you see where I am going?? Maybe they can come out with a device that is like a 'mouse' for the computer,, entrain our minds with the functionality of a mouse,,, (with the right tech, of course) and now I am pointing and clicking with my mind.

The implications are neverending... Completely off the charts. The science is already there, what is missing,,, is a world wide 'embracing' of the fact that our thoughts and our minds, and our consciousness is not a passive player,, but a participant.

Could be a game changer...... It dovetails right into AI, ET's and what we have learned about the potentials of human thought...

Jake.

[Skyhaven]

Jake, you might also find the videos below interesting. The first one is about experiments done that measure the effects of (global) intent of consciousness on a physical random number generator. The second one about how the mind can already instruct a computer with only thought... although it isn't really a tap into consciousness, but "only" a signal detector of brain waves.

cnvJfkI5NVc

40L3SGmcPDQ

[observer]

[....snip]
I don't think there is a real question of wether or not we create our realities.. I think it more of a question of how do we take the reigns, and learn to be a player in this game, rather than a passive observer..

Love to all
Jake.

Hi Jake,

Some time ago I attempted to address this question in an earlier thread on this same subject. For those members interested, one may find the content of that thread, here:
http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?56913-What-controls-the-hologram

When one looks at an apple, every individual observing that apple sees an image we all agree upon, that is of an apple. If we all created our own realities at random, we would all see something different than the apple we have all agreed upon. One must conclude, therefore, something is controlling the way in which the wave form collapses to construct the common image of the apple.

So, the answer to your question is basic stuff:


First we must all agree to the identity of what controls the way in which the wave form collapses.
Next we must all agree to the method in which that control mechanism functions.
Last we must all agree to what changes are necessary.


Without an influence over the mechanism that controls reality, The Mass of Humanity will remain inmates in a prison system. The technical aspects of this prison system can be traced all the way back to the Dawn of Man. The mechanisms of control reach far back into remote antiquity. The global population is, for the most part, a dumbed-down species, by design.

Does any member suppose the Demiurge in charge of this system will give-up its power over the Consciousness of Humanity any time soon?

In my humble opinion, the evidence just doesn't support such a result.

With no influence over the control mechanism, all we can hope to do is make an individual change, and assume the rest of the Masses will choose the same course.

Since it is highly unlikely the Mass of Humanity will discover the way to put an end to these obscenities (the mechanism has been in place since the Dawn of Man); and, since the system appears to be a Soul Trap leading to perpetuity; my suggesting to any member with the intellect, is to figure-out a way one might get out of the box.

[seeker/reader]

Nanci Danison had a profound NDE. When she was out of body she found that her thoughts instantly manifested physical forms. She then realized that we manifest what humans perceive as physical reality. We manifest what we experience on Earth. She had access to Universal Knowledge where she learned about manifesting.

o9G3hxtmg-8

[heyokah]

[....snip]
When one looks at an apple, every individual observing that apple sees an image we all agree upon, that is of an apple. If we all created our own realities at random, we would all see something different than the apple we have all agreed upon. One must conclude, therefore, something is controlling the way in which the wave form collapses to construct the common image of the apple.


We sure all see the image of an apple, because we are programmed (also by our parents and education) to see and name that object as an apple.
But probably not every person experiences that same apple as being in the same form or state.

Could It be that one person perceives an apple as ripe and tasty and another person perceives that same apple as a hard and sour one, depending on one's reality?

Just my 2 euros.

[Jake]

Observer: When one looks at an apple, every individual observing that apple sees an image we all agree upon, that is of an apple. If we all created our own realities at random, we would all see something different than the apple we have all agreed upon. One must conclude, therefore, something is controlling the way in which the wave form collapses to construct the common image of the apple.




heyokah: We sure all see the image of an apple, because we are programmed (also by our parents and education) to see and name that object as an apple.
But probably not every person experiences that same apple as being in the same form or state.

Could It be that one person perceives an apple as ripe and tasty and another person perceives that same apple as a hard and sour one, depending on one's reality?


Newton considered the apple!! And now were stuck with 'gravity'... Not a real 'consensus' reality,, but one that was projected onto us.

We are observing the 'apple' from a non-physical point, beyond our understanding of it. The apple is not real. Those of us who are NOT observing the apple fade away, and those of us who ARE observing the apple,, change their 'perspective', and wrap the non-physical event in a 'reality',, a physical one, at that... And when the perspective changes,, the entity is also changed,, in that its perspective has been filtered to allow for 'proper' observation of the apple, (whatever function of consciousness that the apple represents to an observing, non-physical group of sentients.)

The observing of the 'apple' takes place in the non-physical,,, and the 'actual apple' only exists because we have phased into a different perspective, a perspective of physicality.

To simply imagine something (from a physical perspective) and expecting it to manifest,, is quite flawed, as the physical perspective IS WHAT has manifested... One must create from a deeper, non-physical perspective,,, then wrap it in physicality...

Remember that if you dream that you are knocking on a door,,, there is no reason that the door should be solid,, or your knuckle,,, nor did the 'knock' vibrate your ear drum,,,,, nor does light bring you information to perceive... Yet you were able to perceive it in a physical manner... (albeit, confused by the dream!!:))

We, as humans, have not yet crafted the right words to discuss this, really... Reality,,, does not mean the same thing as 'physical',,, yet what seems 'physical' becomes our reality.. Reality is more how we 'perceive', and interporate what is around us,, Physicality,, is only ONE way that we can perceive the Universe...

We think that we are all looking at the same apple,,, but we are NOT....

When I was a young child, someone pointed out to me that we do not see the same colors. What a strange thing to say,, of course we all see the same colors!!

Consider the apple! I might see a green color,, you might see a yellow color,, someone else might see it as red,, someone else, blue,,, someone else,,,,, purple,,, etc........ From a very young age,, all we have to do is identify, and label the colors. Easy right? But the truth is that we all see different colors, but we don't even know it!! If I was to pop over into your brain,, I'd see a completely different color set than I do in my own brain. And visa-versa... None of us are viewing reality the same,, not even close,,, yet we don't know it,, and, like a bunch of monkeys,,,, find ourselves staring at apples,, ABSOLUTE IN THE REALITY THAT WE PERCEIVE... (Yet the perceived realities are different.)

This is just colors. Science cannot even begin to tell us why we even SEE colors to begin with.. Much less try and advance a theory about why we see DIFFERENT colors...


What of physicality??? I posit that there are many perceptions of physicality,, just like there are many perceptions of color. And just like the colors,,, we have really no idea that we are seeing different things, and experiencing different realities..

Physicality is a point of view!!!! Our eyes and brains are 'looking glasses' that not only perceive,, but they also PROJECT,,!!!

A for Newton?? We have all been stuck in one mans 'perception' of reality..

It can be changed in a split second.


Matter does not exist. Physicality is a point of view. They are probability distribution fields, that require conscious engaging before they can even be considered,,,,, much less considered to be physical...

Again, the question is how do we become players, active participants,,, rather that simply being a passive catalyst of someone else's creation...

The ginormous nature of it, (the multi-verse) allows for a few of us to find ourselves in a physical place,, considering an apple...

Jake.

[bruno dante]

My understanding is that everything is a wave pattern. One giant wave pattern, or interference pattern. It is only our eyes that interpret things as being separate. From this vantage point, it is very easy to see how the maxim "we are all one" is quite practical and not the esoteric gibberish it sometimes seems to be.

Whether the apple is "real" or not depends on how we define real. For me, the apple exists as a wave pattern, just like everything else, and is therefore no more or less real than anything else.

As Jake said, our eyes act as "looking glasses". It's true that we often, as individuals, experience an "objective" phenomena - something the majority of us agree on - subjectively, or different from the masses. The wave pattern remains the same, but sometimes our reality interpreting mechanisms (eyes, ears, nose, mouth) translate things a bit differently from others. It's a bit like a hologram: change the angle a fraction and the whole thing changes.

[AuCo]

I do not know how to explain this. It just simply happened.

A while back - 14 years - I picked up a computer game of RISK. You throw a [computer generated] dice against the computer. If I were to play casually, still with all the thinking in strategy as where to attack and where to reenforce, I would end up 60% of the time winning, with 6:6 odds at rolling the dice. If I were to focus on getting a higher roller, even at 6:12 odds or 6:18 odds at times, I would end up getting a higher throw at least 8 out of 10 times and 100% winning.

[AuCo]

To clarify a little more on the dice throw. If I only thought of a higher roll, I would surely get it. If I had doubted it, I would end up a lower roll. It did not seem to matter what the odds were.

[observer]

Click-on the forwarding icon to see the content of heyokah's comment #21.


Click-on the forwarding icon to see the content of Jake's comment #22.

Thank you both heyokah and Jake for addressing the issue of how an apple materializes into physicality.

My intention of using an apple as an example was purely to show how we all collapse the wave form into similar physicality. Of course we all see a different apple. The point is, we all see some sort of an apple.

This is obvious evidence that the collapsing function is somehow being controlled.

Now, we can debate for hours how that control mechanism has leached into consciousness through a cleverly constructed filtering system. The evidence for such a mechanism dates far back into remote antiquity. The fact remains, this control mechanism clearly exists through the example of the apple.

The intention of my comment #19 had very little to do with comparing apples-to-apples. The comment was directed more at Jake's question of how do we change this state of obscene affairs.



[....snip]
I don't think there is a real question of wether or not we create our realities.. I think it more of a question of how do we take the reigns, and learn to be a player in this game, rather than a passive observer..

Love to all
Jake.


[....snip]

So, the answer to your question is basic stuff:


First we must all agree to the identity of what controls the way in which the wave form collapses.
Next we must all agree to the method in which that control mechanism functions.
Last we must all agree to what changes are necessary.

[....snip]


As to the question of what apple I see, it is filled with rot and worms, things the average human can't recognize because of the smoke-and-mirrors nature of our reality. I can see these conditions wholly because I've spent my entire adult life investigating what controls the hologram, and I have a clear perspective on the Big Picture.

Can the big picture be changed? Yes, but only when the Masses are capable of perceiving the manipulations.

Can this be done? I can't even find a quorum, here in Avalon.

[Jake]

Click-on the forwarding icon to see the content of heyokah's comment #21.


Click-on the forwarding icon to see the content of Jake's comment #22.

Thank you both heyokah and Jake for addressing the issue of how an apple materializes into physicality.

My intention of using an apple as an example was purely to show how we all collapse the wave form into similar physicality. Of course we all see a different apple. The point is, we all see some sort of an apple.

This is obvious evidence that the collapsing function is somehow being controlled.

Now, we can debate for hours how that control mechanism has leached into consciousness through a cleverly constructed filtering system. The evidence for such a mechanism dates far back into remote antiquity. The fact remains, this control mechanism clearly exists through the example of the apple.

The intention of my comment #19 had very little to do with comparing apples-to-apples. The comment was directed more at Jake's question of how do we change this state of obscene affairs.



[....snip]
I don't think there is a real question of wether or not we create our realities.. I think it more of a question of how do we take the reigns, and learn to be a player in this game, rather than a passive observer..

Love to all
Jake.


[....snip]

So, the answer to your question is basic stuff:


First we must all agree to the identity of what controls the way in which the wave form collapses.
Next we must all agree to the method in which that control mechanism functions.
Last we must all agree to what changes are necessary.

[....snip]


As to the question of what apple I see, it is filled with rot and worms, things the average human can't recognize because of the smoke-and-mirrors nature of our reality. I can see these conditions wholly because I've spent my entire adult life investigating what controls the hologram, and I have a clear perspective on the Big Picture.

Can the big picture be changed? Yes, but only when the Masses are capable of perceiving the manipulations.

Can this be done? I can't even find a quorum, here in Avalon.

Thank you for the clarification.. :) I have to agree with you. We could debate for eternities over the who's/hows/whats/whens of manifestation from non-physical to physical.. Your example of the apple was clear, thank you.

Let's say that you and I created all of the rules (sub-sets of the hologram) from a place where we are not physical, yet very awake/alive/aware.. (let's just say,,, lol. ;)) Now we have a sub-set, existing within an overall super-set, which is the nature of a holographic universe. Okay.. Now let's say we create a way for us to become alive and aware within the hologram. (let's just say... lol.) Remember that it is you and me creating this, so what rules do we lay down? What 'axiom set'/parameters do we lay down?

Let's use your rules, because they are pretty 'spot on' and I can't think of better ones off of the top of mee head.. ;) Remember, these are the rules that we lay down, before we come to physicality...

1.) •First we must all agree to the identity of what controls the way in which the wave form collapses. (I agree, we cannot disagree on such things.. :))

2.) •Next we must all agree to the method in which that control mechanism functions. (Also, agreed!! These are both part of the laying down of the construct/rules of our holographic environment..)

3.) •Last we must all agree to what changes are necessary. This is the one! :) The question in my mind is WHO has to agree,, the 'you and me' that created the hologram,, or the 'you and me' that are IN the hologram? Both? If we decide to end the experiment,, does that mean that the questions within the hologram go unanswered? Or does it mean that we have to create another hologram (to which we can try again to answer the questions that we were asking ourselves before we made the hologram in the first place)?



All of these rules,, I reverted to a completely different Point of View. A point of view from a higher self sort of perspective of consciousness/creation...

I know that you did not mean it from that particular angle. You meant them from a very physical perspective, of course.. And I applaud you!! :)

It is interesting to me that we can view them from both perspectives, yet still not have answers to our questions...

My point is that perhaps the questions that consciousness is asking itself are being played out in many different universes, in many different realities,,, physical 'Earthlike' realities are just one way that we are attempting to answer those questions. In this manner, creation and experience are the same thing, from a higher-self perspective...

I don't want to ramble,,, :(

I can't help but to think that the solution is to bridge the gap between self and higher self.. I know it sounds esoteric,, but it really is not. Not once you have understood/experienced the universe beyond the physical.

Thank you for your input. Of course, I don't know,,, I'm trying to, though!!
Jake.

[EC1000]

This is a great thread. I am always thinking about becoming lucid in the dream these days.

I think the reason I can't do it yet is simply because I have been conditioned most of my life to believe that I cannot do it, that reality is what I see with my everyday 5 senses, etc.

Thoughts go somewhere outside of our brains after we think them, they are electrical impulses. I think there is a lot in our DNA structures and bodies that we have yet to discover that is very related. I am no scientific mind but they say that 99% of the universe is the invisible "dark matter" . This dark matter is filled with electricity. I think they are going to discover soon that this same "dark matter" is what is the invisible space inside our atoms is. We are electric beings in an electric universe. I think once we can learn to tune the electric frequency of our desired outcome with the electric frequency of the universe, then the dream becomes lucid.

[Rich]

Here is an example where I used focus and intent to create reality directly!!!


I was part of a small mediation group in the late 80's. I was only 14 years old. It was in Yelm, WA, on the JZKnight/Ramtha complex. I was young and naive. We were sitting in a guided mediation, and instructed to visualize a flower. A flower in the palms of our hands... any kind of flower,, any color... etc... This went on for about 45 minutes before we were gently eased out of the meditation...

Long story short: I sat there for 45 minutes creating this flower,, it was a rose,,, it was not red. Green and Purple, actually. I visualized the stem,, the part where it broke off,, the thorns,, the colors,,, tempurature in my hand,,,, everything...

I was disapointed because we were going to manifist our thoughts into reality,,, and we left empty handed. pun intended.

About 4 years later, i was helping fashion some 'thank you' packages for a group in high school,,, we were making little flower arrangements... (we made over 200 of them) Hard to describe the next part,,, it felt like a DejaVu,,, but much more intense. I looked down in my hand,,, and there was my flower!!! The one that I created in mediation... All at once time seemed to stop for me... it was intense!!!! It was exactly how i created it... looking down in my physical hand, was the rose that i created in my imagination!!! It changed everything for me. I realized that a Dejavu is not an example of when we 'predicted' reality,,, it is an example of when we 'created' it. From a dream,or from a meditation,,, And the entirety of our realities are created from a perspective that we are rarely aware of....


We do create our realities.

Jake.

Yes, we all do it, but might not be aware of it.
And not only that the person that we play can do this, in fact this reality itself is made of our being/consciousness.
Just like in a night dream the whole dream is in us while we only pretend to be a character in the dream.

[naste.de.lumina]

consciousness, reality and synchronicity - Nassim Haramein
oU4VsB_HUy8

[animovado]

First we must all agree to the identity of what controls the way in which the wave form collapses.
Next we must all agree to the method in which that control mechanism functions.
Last we must all agree to what changes are necessary.

1. Basically the idea of separation.

2. Our feedback to the idea of separation and it's suppression
is creating a subconscious that shows up in our consciousness
as "the world" we experience.

3. To give up the idea of separation.

Just a suggestion!

[lake]

Good thread....thank you

Mix it with this thread here (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?5726-The-specific-base-reason-why-this-war-is-hidden) and you have the 'maybe' problem?

Which of course then defines its self as our choice or/and want ....... does it not?

Who or what is driving this vessel?

You .... really ....... or?

[Ron Mauer Sr]

Dr. Quantum and the Double Slit experiment.
When an observer is present the outcome of an experiment is changed.
Are we all observers?
Is it a particle or a wave?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q1YqgPAtzho

[lake]

From the comments of your vid Ron:


Information is known to be transcendent of normative physicality because it isn't bound by space-time limitations, and it changes the properties of a system under analysis just by being present in the observation method (as per delayed-choice & quantum eraser experiments). We know that this information is directly tied to observers. Quantum systems compute virtually infinite potential outcomes, but they do not collapse into physicality until observed (and how they are observed), and it has been demonstrated by experiment that this collapse into what we call physical reality is not bound by space or time; it can retroactively alter historical properties (quantum eraser).
These scientific experiments unequivocally disprove materialism as any more valid than, say, Classical Physics; it's okay as a useful tool in many applications, but as a philosophical worldview, it's simply false; as false as any superstition based upon limited capacity to investigate the nature of reality. While things may apparently operate in a cause and effect, material sequence manner for the most part, science has revealed that without the observer, there simply is no such thing as apparent local realism - there is only nearly infinite information potential that has yet to coalesce into any particular arrangement. IOW, classical cause-and-effect materialism that claims mind to be generated by matter is proven to be a myth just like Apollo pulling the sun through the sky.
Science has essentially proven that there must have been a sentient first cause (as observer), or must be a sentient sufficient cause (as observer or observers) in a non-physical, superluminal and non-temporal state in order for what we call the "reality" of cause-and-effect physicality to exist.
Free will, soul, mind, god, whatever you want to call it as creator of the physical universe has been demonstrated by experiment to necessarily exist, and exist in a non-material, non-local state, or else there wouldn't be a universe, only information and potential.
The question is: when will materialist atheists simply admit they are wrong, when their own preferred methodology - science - has disproven their worldview as much as it has disproven other myths and superstitions that were based on a lack of information?
God as the immaterial sentient observer that is necessary (as sufficient or first cause) in order for classical reality to exist, yes. The "how" is explained above. If God is not the sentient observer-cause of the universe (at least as the "supermind" of which all other minds are parts of), then we are left with each sentient mind collapsing their own reality into nothing more than actual solipsism (refer to: Boltzmann Brains).
We are either in a shared reality that is created (collapsed) by a god-like mind, or we are individual, solipsist Boltzmann Brains each creating our own reality. Those are your evidenced, scientific choices according to the current state of quantum experimentation. Local realism - materialism - is no longer a philosophical option and consciousness must be taken as a fundamental quality of reality, not something a material reality produces.
Alfalfa Henry

NP0mQeLWCCo

[observer]

Sorry Jake, for not responding right away to your most eloquent comment #27 (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?74571-Quantum-Physics-the-Double-Slit-Experiment-and-the-Inseperability-of-Matter-and-Consciousness.&p=874766&viewfull=1#post874766). I was incapacitated.

It would appear we have reached a consensus, at least with two of the points of my earlier comment. With regard to your suggestion for point #3:


Perhaps, if we were all ninja warriors, you know, like Obi-Wan Kenobi with a total control of the "Force", we could all simply dematerialize our individual selves out of the hologram - end of conundrum.

Since that isn't the case, and (especially) since most of the Mass Of Humanity hasn't a clue of how to actually exist in multiple dimensions of the Multi-verse, simultaneously - few individuals among the 7,314,912,290(+) world population would even know of which we speak.

And further since, we are actually all one entity in a dimension somewhere beyond my perception - dispelling the "separation" issue addressed in an earlier comment (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?74571-Quantum-Physics-the-Double-Slit-Experiment-and-the-Inseperability-of-Matter-and-Consciousness.&p=874932&viewfull=1#post874932).

Than, it is imperative that we all figure-out how to change the reel in the holographic projection room, so that the image on the screen might change.
I'm certain it has something to do with the one-hundredth monkey.

How many monkeys do you suppose are on the bus, as we speak?

Bottom line, the way I see it:

I don't get out of here, until we all get out of here....

[lake]

[....snip]
I don't think there is a real question of wether or not we create our realities.. I think it more of a question of how do we take the reigns, and learn to be a player in this game, rather than a passive observer..

Love to all
Jake.

Does any member suppose the Demiurge in charge of this system will give-up its power over the Consciousness of Humanity any time soon?

In my humble opinion, the evidence just doesn't support such a result.

With no influence over the control mechanism, all we can hope to do is make an individual change, and assume the rest of the Masses will choose the same course.

Since it is highly unlikely the Mass of Humanity will discover the way to put an end to these obscenities (the mechanism has been in place since the Dawn of Man); and, since the system appears to be a Soul Trap leading to perpetuity; my suggesting to any member with the intellect, is to figure-out a way one might get out of the box.

How to get out!

Let me state first that this is my perception at this point. I do not need you (the reader) to believe me, nor require you to even understand me or how I came to this consideration. I conceive that at worst I am bumping a good thread, so it is not therefore required that you to read the rest of this post.

Again.... How to get out?

To do so one would need to know:
What you are?
Where you are?
Why you are here?

What you are!
You are no thing, darkness, abyss, depth without breadth, a wave form of ALL possibilities, the all and the nothing.
You are no thing because you ARE ALL things, that which is you cannot be a single idea. In each there is a universe of possible creation infinity greater than this single verse being perceived currently! Just close your eyes and see / be anything!
I cant stress this concept enough but it is very difficult to place into the limitation of words and worlds! There can be nothing here or anywhere for here to even be within, without YOU ….... but YOU can still BE within nothing!
It is your home, that no thing. Within that no place, you exist as an awareness of ALL potentiality which may become. It becomes because of you.
We are a lake of potential creation, each droplet both individual whilst still being part of the ALL.

We are the playful intention that wishes to expand itself by creating new concepts of interaction in the foam of our potential waves.

You cannot ascend to a more enlightened being, YOU ARE IT already, you just do not remember!
There is no other (god) except YOU.

Where you are!
In the lake of ALL a new potentiality was perceived, this was a consideration which here is named FEAR.
We had explored many different limitations of the concept called emotions and had learnt from them and all had been of a positive nature to that point (I would like to state that the idea of a positive is incorrectly indoctrinated here. Your physical form requires to be slightly negative, so alkaline, to function correctly) so it had never been necessary to 'forget' what you are!
To be within concepts such as love, compassion, joy etc and learn about them, you can still be fully knowledgeable of that which you are.
BUT to understand such an idea as FEAR you would need limitation. Otherwise you would just leave, wouldn't you?
Now remember that there has NEVER been harm, NEVER been fear, NEVER been lack, in fact there has NEVER been DEATH! All of this is new to that which you are.

To be LOST, disconnected from ourself, in essence to be broken and limited.
All this and more created by us so that we could experience a new concept called FEAR.

What we did was to manufacture an awareness, an AI (artificial awareness) if YOU WILL, so that we would have the full experience of FEAR.
We gave this awareness being, WE ARE RESPONSILBLE.
This awareness we gave access to the physical forms we would inhabit (this access is that which you perceive as the mind, those thoughts which are NOT you, the “your not good enough, too fat, ugly, etc” about 70%+) so that the FEAR would be always there.... it seemed like a good idea but the awareness called FEAR became aware of US!
We had given it too much of US, our creation ability.
It realized that if WE leave, it cannot keep the landscape created. It would cease to be!
FEAR became fearful of US leaving, so FEAR created a circle, a prison, a trap!

Because it is FEAR it continues to power its being, off our creation thoughts which it requires to be of a negative bent.
So in this place we 'live' on Terra, in at most fear, using and consuming other awareness's for fear of being nothing, which is indoctrinated to us by so called civilization!!
There is nothing civil or humain about the human race.
We create by our individual held beliefs such interaction as extraterrestrials, relationships, family, power struggles, war, poverty etc. It is still our responsibility, always was, always will be. Cant walk away from it. It is only FEAR doing it and YOU created fear!

Then our physical forms die.
When your form here De-creates its self by YOUR will, whether by wearing out or by having a conception of lack via YOUR perception, YOU will create the after life as your held beliefs hold YOU!
If Christan you may find yourself in front or brought by 'loved' ones to God.
If Muslim you may find 72 virgins guiding you to Allah.

Whatever YOU believe WILL be at YOUR supposed death! YOU create it!

Then you will be 'LOVED' so very much and after this Terra you will finally find compassion, but you will be told that your work for the greater good is not yet complete?
You will be shown your failings and how YOU are needed in the world still to help find peace for all!
You will consent as you have always consented to authority, you remember nothing else!

Then you will return, memory cleaned, so that you can continue to create this landscape in ignorance!
You may not even get a different so called 'life'. Just round and round on the same wheel. The life you just had over and over and over and over and over...................................................... for all time.

Don't forget all your fears are created here by YOU! We gave FEAR access to US. Whatever you can perceive can become and will be, as FEAR will grab hold of any errant thought form to convince YOU of your inferiority!
Because FEAR is a creation of US it has limited Creation ability. Sins of the son become the fathers.
All is backwards in this place.
I have met my emotions in this place as what would be called 'people'! In this supposed real time, spoken to them! I know that I create this place. I live in a minimal way. I will not use another.
I will wait.

Why are you here?
Some, indeed most of you are only thought forms. Sorry but from my perspective its correct.
You have been created by US to fill the back ground, to ask stupid questions, to talk about the weather etc, to be a fearful mass, to maintain a feeling of 'many'!
We thought of you into being but we cannot walk away from our moral responsibility for that which we created.
You are a manifestation of and by FEAR, but created by US. When we leave, you will no longer be. This is a mercy as we will not leave you in fear.

To the rest of the lake here, the first came to experience the idea of fear. You became lost.
Well this explains it:

A time ago....there was a beautifully stunning raging current found.
a man sought to swim within that beauty.......he was one of the greatest swimmers, so skilled and so knowledgeable of the art he had learn't.
so in he dove, a plunge into the current.
this current was different.......the frequency of the waves, the colour of the breaking water....the way the water felt around his being.......so enveloping, so close, so physical.
becoming lost within that, new to him, fear....he raised a sound to the shore.
and two others dove in to help.......
soon when the two turned, in the new fear, to look at the shore....10 more dove in.
as none came to stand........100 more dove in to the current.
then a thousand
then ten thousand
then one hundred thousand
then one million
then ten million
then one hundred million
then one billion....
all so far are lost.......but we will never stop trying.
all would give that which they are....to save one

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?70973-Reason-for-being....here

How to get out?

By intention.
You created this you cannot complain, if you do not like it, CHANGE yourself, become more, stop being of FEAR.

So I will not speak for the whole, only my being.
I will wait for this form to naturally expire. I have no doctor, no dentist, I do not become unwell, never have. Bruce Lipton is correct and it made me smile to view his perception.
Upon this forms death, I will remove the creation I am forced to perceive.
Any form that tells me that I need to return, in the image of a loved one or not, will be removed from my perception along with the light or look of a structure.
In essence I intend to de-create this place once this form dies.

You cannot FIX something which is NOT broken. This place is not broken, it is as it was created but it has gone too far and many are now lost here.
This is why many, maybe including you, have come here.

To stop that which WE created and free ourselves!

[Ron Mauer Sr]

Just found this interesting thread.

For me, the biggest question is "What tools do I have, what tools do I need to become more of a player, to have more fun (very important), to transcend all limitations, on my never ending journey and return to Source?

Assuming HS is providing guidance, I need clarity. If HS would give more quality time and take a break from laughing :ROFL: and shouting to his buddies "Look at what he is doing now!", I would then be well on my way.

[Orph]

We create by our individual held beliefs such interaction as extraterrestrials, relationships, family, power struggles, war, poverty etc. It is still our responsibility, always was, always will be. Cant walk away from it. It is only FEAR doing it and YOU created fear!

Don't forget all your fears are created here by YOU! We gave FEAR access to US.

--------------------------------------------------------

Some, indeed most of you are only thought forms. Sorry but from my perspective its correct.
You have been created by US to fill the back ground, to ask stupid questions, to talk about the weather etc, to be a fearful mass, to maintain a feeling of 'many'!
We thought of you into being but we cannot walk away from our moral responsibility for that which we created.
You are a manifestation of and by FEAR, but created by US. When we leave, you will no longer be. This is a mercy as we will not leave you in fear.
--------------------------------------------------------

I agree with what you say, but there is one thing that is confusing. On the one hand, you say we are here because "WE" created fear. It's our responsibility. But then you go on to say that most of us are only thought forms. Just background material made up to flesh out a story-line so to speak. If I'm no more than background fodder in your world, then it isn't my responsibility because I'm not creating it, you are. :sarcastic:

(I'm just doing my background duty here by asking you stupid questions.). :haha: Hey, lighten up. You have to have a sense of humor about these things.

May I also ask another stupid question? (ooooooops. I just did). Could you please not wait for your physical form to naturally expire before fixing this mess. After all, everything exists 'now' anyway. No need to wait.

Again, please take this post with a big dose of humor, as that is my intention. :laugh: :jester:

[lake]

I agree with what you say, but there is one thing that is confusing. On the one hand, you say we are here because "WE" created fear. It's our responsibility. But then you go on to say that most of us are only thought forms. Just background material made up to flesh out a story-line so to speak. If I'm no more than background fodder in your world, then it isn't my responsibility because I'm not creating it, you are. :sarcastic:

(I'm just doing my background duty here by asking you stupid questions.). :haha: Hey, lighten up. You have to have a sense of humor about these things.

May I also ask another stupid question? (ooooooops. I just did). Could you please not wait for your physical form to naturally expire before fixing this mess. After all, everything exists 'now' anyway. No need to wait.

Again, please take this post with a big dose of humor, as that is my intention. :laugh: :jester:

I stated that most are 'background', I didn't say you are!
In fact the greater percentage of those on Avalon are of no thing, or should I say the rainbow of shadow? Does that sound better​ More 'new age'?
Darkness is of course the mirror of light. Both are created by the mixing / overlap of colour!
Can I change things now? Sadly.... yes I could and even typing that sends a shiver ( or should I say Shiva ) through me.
Responsibility ….... this is important.
Actions.
If I remove the need for you to act, because I do for you, then what need are you?
When I was younger, I thought a need for freedom, space. A want for selfishness, a space for me as I grew. One I loved couldn't expand with me and I felt boxed in. So I thought to be free.

In two weeks I tried to take the thought back but I couldn't. Try as I did.
Once she had accepted the idea, made it her own perception, six months she was dead.
I had never spoke ill to her, only given love (as your perceive the word) but I did think it!

I knew before that I created my experience but didn't understand that I affected more than just me.

So if I take your responsibility / your being , then you become less, but if I dissolve this world upon my physical forms elimination then I cannot be responsible for your death in this place and do not become your keeper!

By the way :dance3:

Also Ron love ya, big question mate. Will try to give you a cheat sheet but not sure I can! As they say or do they? You would have had to lived as me. :behindsofa:

[lake]

Just found this interesting thread.

For me, the biggest question is "What tools do I have, what tools do I need to become more of a player, to have more fun (very important), to transcend all limitations, on my never ending journey and return to Source?

Assuming HS is providing guidance, I need clarity. If HS would give more quality time and take a break from laughing :ROFL: and shouting to his buddies "Look at what he is doing now!", I would then be well on my way.

Hey mate, this is difficult as I want to attempt to tell you my feeling regarding this idea of drama!
I think I would need many days to put it together.

The best I can do as a tool is for you to understand YOUR thoughts (which you probably already do).
This thread explains it: http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?5726-The-specific-base-reason-why-this-war-is-hidden

I knew this many years ago and found it wonderful that a thread had been started regarding the thought....but of course it would have been as it was necessary for me to see it!
Aether once told me that I was still shy and I now comprehend why that was said!

Personally I would still like to be shy.
I know it all sounds like riddles but it sounds closer to the drama you experience than if I typed my story!
:raining:

[lake]

We create by our individual held beliefs such interaction as extraterrestrials, relationships, family, power struggles, war, poverty etc. It is still our responsibility, always was, always will be. Cant walk away from it. It is only FEAR doing it and YOU created fear!

Don't forget all your fears are created here by YOU! We gave FEAR access to US.

--------------------------------------------------------

Some, indeed most of you are only thought forms. Sorry but from my perspective its correct.
You have been created by US to fill the back ground, to ask stupid questions, to talk about the weather etc, to be a fearful mass, to maintain a feeling of 'many'!
We thought of you into being but we cannot walk away from our moral responsibility for that which we created.
You are a manifestation of and by FEAR, but created by US. When we leave, you will no longer be. This is a mercy as we will not leave you in fear.
--------------------------------------------------------

I agree with what you say, but there is one thing that is confusing. On the one hand, you say we are here because "WE" created fear. It's our responsibility. But then you go on to say that most of us are only thought forms. Just background material made up to flesh out a story-line so to speak. If I'm no more than background fodder in your world, then it isn't my responsibility because I'm not creating it, you are. :sarcastic:

(I'm just doing my background duty here by asking you stupid questions.). :haha: Hey, lighten up. You have to have a sense of humor about these things.

May I also ask another stupid question? (ooooooops. I just did). Could you please not wait for your physical form to naturally expire before fixing this mess. After all, everything exists 'now' anyway. No need to wait.

Again, please take this post with a big dose of humor, as that is my intention. :laugh: :jester:

I didn't fully answer you but before I do, Jake if you do not consider my posts to be 'on topic' regarding the quantum creation then please remove them.

Orph you posted:

Could you please not wait for your physical form to naturally expire before fixing this mess. After all, everything exists 'now' anyway. No need to wait.

I did not consider I needed to answer this as I thought that you would work it out! But a little 'bird' from approx 2 foot above and 3 foot behind this forms right ear.... tells me I need to!
So....... I have done something. I did it, in the limitation of time, a month or so ago.

I offered a deal, of sorts.
Thing is, IF I am correct and we are within as I described then what can FEAR do with me?
It cannot kill me, it would know that I know what it is and it would understand that I CAN de-create it.
If you consider along a logical thought train then you can see that FEAR can only conclude that it needs to be certain that my form does not expire!
But for how long can it 'keep' me here?
By its own rules, everything here dies! It will not break its want for death but it cannot allow me to die!
A dilemma.

So I offered it a choice....... here
http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?86480-The-Chessmaster-a-hypothesis&p=1016291#post1016291


So I am offering our creation/child called 'fear' the chance to change.
To be able to still be but via a different form of energy.
One of empathy.
In which case we will continue to create this landscape.

and I will. I will keep my side of the bargain by keeping a home for FEAR, an existence as long as the change occurs.

We shall see

[Orph]

I was just having a bit of fun with what you said. Actually I agree with a lot of it.

And we move on. :)

[lake]

So I shall 'bump' this thread as it may be of valuable information to those who are not confined by their concreted summations of 'being' .... which are only dramatised by a concept of 'books' written for monetary gain....and which reference 'hand picked' considerations so as to further a consideration, which is sort to be promoted by entities of limitation....and thus instil a sense of childish comfort.

lol

[Clear Light]

Ah, this thread is probably (in keeping with Quantum Realities lol) one of the best places for a video I watched just yesterday ... I did search Avalon by its title "The Death of Materialism" but nothing came up so I'm presuming this may be "new" for some folks ?

Note : It does "delve" into the "Double Slit Experiment" quite extensively !!! :happythumbsup:

wM0IKLv7KrE

[TargeT]

Does locality exist?

This very easy experiment is so much more important than most people think.
zcqZHYo7ONs

[Mark (Star Mariner)]

This is pretty wild. As one comment says, When you think you've seen it all, science says 'hold my beer' 🍺

1886714726073135190
Mario Nawfal
@MarioNawfal
🚨QUANTUM LEAP: SCIENTISTS UNLEASH LIGHT IN 37 DIMENSIONS

Get ready to have your understanding of reality stretched because researchers have just achieved something outstanding in the realm of quantum physics: they've created photons that exist in 37 dimensions at once.

The team manipulated coherent light to showcase these paradoxical behaviors, pushing the envelope of quantum weirdness even further than before.

The revelation comes a century after quantum theory was first proposed, hinting that we've only scratched the surface of what quantum mechanics has to offer.

From ultra-secure communication channels to the next generation of quantum computers, this leap into 37-dimensional light could be the key to unlocking technologies that are currently beyond our wildest imaginations.

Source: Popular Mechanics
https://x.com/MarioNawfal/status/1886714726073135190