Scientific Evidence of the Soul Thread

[Omni]

I recently have been getting into debates about the existence of soul with people on skype. It served to show me other people are at such different stages of awakening to reality. Anyway, I wanted to make or find a thread where people can post evidence of what we call the soul. I believe the scientific discovery of the soul, and it's mechanics is one of the biggest events that happens to humans like us. I believe the soul and reincarnation will be scientific fact one day. Truly where science and spirituality meet(in one big way).

So, if you have any evidence that the soul exists, please do post it!

I'll post this to start out:

New Amazing Evidence Which Science Cannot Refute

Cardiologist Dr Michael Sabom has described a near-death experience that occurred while its experiencer - a woman who was having an unusual surgical procedure for the safe excision and repair of a large basilar artery aneurysm - met all of the accepted criteria for brain death. Neither is this is an isolated instance for there are now a growing number of people who have testified that they experienced consciousness - indeed, frequently consciousness on a very high and vivid plane, while they were - for a short period - technically "brain-dead." The University of Southampton, England, has also conducted some research which is quite compelling,

"...University of Southampton researchers have just published a paper detailing their pioneering study into near death experiences (or near-death experiences) that suggests consciousness and the mind may continue to exist after the brain has ceased to function and the body is clinically dead.

Independent EEG studies have confirmed that the brain's electrical activity, and hence brain function, ceases at that time. But seven out of 63 (11 per cent) of the Southampton patients who survived their cardiac arrest recalled emotions and visions during unconsciousness." (more information here: http://www.mikepettigrew.com/afterlife/html/u_k__study.html).
http://www.ukapologetics.net/07/mindandbody.htmhttp://www.ukapologetics.net/07/mindandbody.htm

[Hogswitch]

"...University of Southampton researchers have just published a paper detailing their pioneering study into near death experiences (or near-death experiences) that suggests consciousness and the mind may continue to exist after the brain has ceased to function and the body is clinically dead.

Independent EEG studies have confirmed that the brain's electrical activity, and hence brain function, ceases at that time. But seven out of 63 (11 per cent) of the Southampton patients who survived their cardiac arrest recalled emotions and visions during unconsciousness." (more information here: http://www.mikepettigrew.com/afterlife/html/u_k__study.html).


Can you give me a link to the actual published scientific paper from the Southampton study please, I can't find it anywhere?

Hog.

[Omni]

Can you give me a link to the actual published scientific paper from the Southampton study please, I can't find it anywhere?

Hog.

Says it was published in a journal called Resuscitation. Here is their website: http://www.resuscitationjournal.com/


If you really want info you could contact an email listed here:

· The Foundation website address is www.horizon-research.co.uk.

· The Southampton study is published in this month's issue of the medical journal Resuscitation.

For further information:
Dr Sam Parnia, Senior Research Fellow, University of Southampton (tel: 023 8079 5026 e-mailparnis@soton.ac.uk).
Kim d'Arcy, External Relations, University of Southampton (tel: 023 8059 4993 e-mailkimda@soton.ac.uk).

[Snookie]

Okay, this isn't scientific evidence, but it's still pretty neat. My sweeties brother had to have an emergency operation, and as he was being wheeled into the operating room he told his family "I'm not going to make it through this". Sure enough his heart stopped while he was on the operating table.

He had an NDE where he saw his mother who told him "Dave go back, I'll go in your place". His 94 year old mother was still alive living in a different province in the final stage of Alzheimer's where she could no longer speak, eat or recognize anyone, so there was no physical way she would have known what was going on. He came back, and about a week later his mother died. I think that is pretty amazing.

[Hogswitch]

· The Southampton study is published in this month's issue of the medical journal Resuscitation.


Thanks Omni, I think I found a link to the original paper, here it is for anybody who's interested :-

http://www.horizonresearch.org/Uploads/resusrv.pdf

Hog.

[araucaria]

Evidence that the soul weighs about 21 grams:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duncan_MacDougall_%28doctor%29
http://www.snopes.com/religion/soulweight.asp

[Hogswitch]

Evidence that the soul weighs about 21 grams:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duncan_MacDougall_%28doctor%29
http://www.snopes.com/religion/soulweight.asp

This is not evidence, for the reasons stated in the snopes article you linked to,
What to make of all this? MacDougall's results were flawed because the methodology used to harvest them was suspect, the sample size far too small, and the ability to measure changes in weight imprecise. For this reason, credence should not be given to the idea his experiments proved something, let alone that they measured the weight of the soul as 21 grams. His postulations on this topic are a curiosity, but nothing more.
Read more at http://www.snopes.com/religion/soulweight.asp#iV64mc7Qi0xy78dK.99

Snopes gave its "TRUE" stamp of approval only to the fact that the good doctor in question did in fact carry out this deeply flawed experiment, not to his results or the conclusion that the soul weighs about 21g.

Hog.

Unless of course your post was intended to be tongue in cheek, in which case :p

[araucaria]

Evidence that the soul weighs about 21 grams:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duncan_MacDougall_%28doctor%29
http://www.snopes.com/religion/soulweight.asp

This is not evidence, for the reasons stated in the snopes article you linked to,
What to make of all this? MacDougall's results were flawed because the methodology used to harvest them was suspect, the sample size far too small, and the ability to measure changes in weight imprecise. For this reason, credence should not be given to the idea his experiments proved something, let alone that they measured the weight of the soul as 21 grams. His postulations on this topic are a curiosity, but nothing more.
Read more at http://www.snopes.com/religion/soulweight.asp#iV64mc7Qi0xy78dK.99 Snopes gave its "TRUE" stamp of approval only to the fact that the good doctor in question did in fact carry out this deeply flawed experiment, not to his results or the conclusion that the soul weighs about 21g.

Hog.

Unless of course your post was intended to be tongue in cheek, in which case :p
My more serious point was that science likes to measure material things, and is by definition not qualified to describe non-physical objects. Otherwise, like measuring the space on a pinhead occupied by an angel, you are going to come up with absurdities like the weight of a soul.

Only this morning on another thread I quoted Jung’s Synchronicity: An Acausal Connecting Principle, which probably explains why. Briefly, the soul would be an ‘acausal event’:

The discoveries of modern physics have, as we know, brought about a significant change in our scientific picture of the world, in that they have shattered the absolute validity of natural law and made it relative. Natural laws are statistical truths, which means that they are completely valid only when we are dealing with macrophysical quantities. In the realm of very small quantities prediction becomes uncertain, if not impossible, because very small quantities no longer behave in accordance with the known natural laws.
The philosophical principle that underlies our conception of natural law is causality. But if the connection between cause and effect turns out to be only statistically valid and only relatively true, then the causal principle is only of relative use for explaining natural processes and therefore presupposes the existence of one or more other factors which would be necessary for an explanation. This is as much as to say that the connection of events may in certain circumstances be other than causal, and requires another principle of explanation.
We shall naturally look round in vain in the macrophysical world for acausal events, for the simple reason that we cannot imagine events that are connected non-causally and are capable of a non-causal explanation. But that does not mean that such events do not exist. Their existence–or at least their possibility–follows logically from the premise of statistical truth.
The experimental method of inquiry aims at establishing regular events which can be repeated. Consequently, unique or rare events are ruled out of account. Moreover, the experiment imposes limiting conditions on nature, for its aim is to force her to give answers to questions devised by man. Every answer of nature is therefore more or less influenced by the kind of question asked, and the result is always a hybrid product. The so-called “scientific view of the world” based on this can hardly be anything more than a psychologically biased partial view which misses out all those by no means unimportant aspects that cannot be grasped statistically.
http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?74722-Money-the-taproot-of-all-evil-or-fossil-virus&p=874538&viewfull=1#post874538

[rgray222]

Here is a thread and an article on the same subject .
http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?65034-Russian-Scientist-Photographs-The-Soul-Leaving-The-Body-At-Death

[1 flew over]

OK, I’ll play.

To start off I’ll have to mention that proving something like the soul exists is like proving that anything subjective exists. The hard core ‘science based’ folk will say that if it can’t be measured and quantified it doesn’t exist, in my viewpoint that is cow pucky. It is sort of like saying that since no one can measure love then it does not exist. Quantum science is starting to drive some wedges into the old ‘must be measurable theory’, but on to the subject at hand.

What I have found to be some fairly interesting reading would be from:

Dr. Eben Alexander who released a book and audio series called Proof of Heaven. I have found it to be an enjoyable romp through the world of spirit separate from the body. I refrain from using the word soul because it has way too much carryover meaning and baggage from a religious viewpoint perspective. Dr. Alexander is a neurosurgeon and researcher who went through a death experience over a period of time and came back to document his experience. I am sure that you computer handy folk can find a pirated copy of the audio book with a little searching. I thoroughly enjoyed listening to the book. Below are some links to some sites where it is discussed.
http://www.newsweek.com/proof-heaven-doctors-experience-afterlife-65327
http://www.npr.org/books/titles/164676167/proof-of-heaven-a-neurosurgeons-journey-into-the-afterlife
http://www.slate.com/articles/health_and_science/science/2012/10/proof_of_heaven_heaven_is_real_author_eben_alexander_is_a_neuro_evangelist.html

The next one was also from a ‘near’ death experience writeup. I gave a copy to a 101 year old neighbor and his care giver mentioned that they read it together and discussed it in depth. They both said that he got a great deal of comfort from it before he transitioned. He had tried various religions but was not comfortable with what they were saying and this writeup seemed to help. In returning to Mellen-Thomas’s site, he is now selling healing lights and other questionable stuff but I really liked his original writing after his recovery.

http://www.galacticchannelings.com/english/mellen-thomas.html

I have not read this last links stuff but I’ll probably go into it tonight.

www.encouragedByTheLight.com

There are countless books on the subject, a few that I have read are Journey of Souls by Dr. Michael Newton who is a hypnotherapist and has worked and recorded many experiences with many folk while they are hypnotized. I think Gary Zukav Seat of the Soul and others by him are worth a quick read, though less well documented. There are about 1.6 gadzillion books available some probably even have some validity.

I have my own experiences of out of body and between lives exploits but can I prove them? No
Does that make them any less real for me? No
Do I care? No
Your mileage may vary

Back to my earlier point: Can you prove that love exists and does that make it less real?

Be Well
1 Flew Over