URGENT: Liver Flush Went Wrong - Need Advice

[Natalia]

Hi and sorry for this don't want anyone to worry, but I need quick advice.

Yesterday was my liver flush day where I took the olive oil, grapefruit and lemon mix at 10:00 PM.

This morning I took an Epsom salt drink at 6:00 and 8:00 am, and 5 minutes after the last one, I was violently sick (projectile sick).

A red liquid came out, which looked a bit like bloody water, but I wasn't sure if maybe it was the red grapefruit or not. I thought it was a bit late for it to still be there, but had to check with a nurse friend who has done the liver flush many times, and she said that she had never heard of what happened to me and that it can't be the grapefruit as I took it at 10:00 pm. She is on her way out though as very busy, so I thought I would ask here.

(I am not well at the mo, perhaps this was not a good time to do a liver flush? I did it because I wanted to feel better and after the flush to take MMS).

I don't want any stones to get stuck (have not passed any yet) should I take another epsom salt drink and risk being sick again? Or not?

And is the red colour of liquid that came out a concern?

Thanks,

Amethyst

[Natalia]

(btw, I just past some stones and oily stuff, so it is working).

[778 neighbour of some guy]

Hi and sorry for this don't want anyone to worry, but I need quick advice.

Yesterday was my liver flush day where I took the olive oil, grapefruit and lemon mix at 10:00 PM.

This morning I took an Epsom salt drink at 6:00 and 8:00 am, and 5 minutes after the last one, I was violently sick (projectile sick).

A red liquid came out, which looked a bit like bloody water, but I wasn't sure if maybe it was the red grapefruit or not. I thought it was a bit late for it to still be there, but had to check with a nurse friend who has done the liver flush many times, and she said that she had never heard of what happened to me and that it can't be the grapefruit as I took it at 10:00 pm. She is on her way out though as very busy, so I thought I would ask here.

(I am not well at the mo, perhaps this was not a good time to do a liver flush? I did it because I wanted to feel better and after the flush to take MMS).

I don't want any stones to get stuck (have not passed any yet) should I take another epsom salt drink and risk being sick again? Or not?

And is the red colour of liquid that came out a concern?

Thanks,

Amethyst

Hi, congrats on your first flush, nice to hear stones came out, cant help you with the red stuff though, that never happened to me, hope your friend has some good advice for you.

778

[778 neighbour of some guy]

Perhaps you ruptured a small vein, when your stomach was contracting to get the Epsom out?

[johnf]

Perhaps you ruptured a small vein, when your stomach was contracting to get the Epsom out?

Good point 778, Amethyst, you said bloody water like it was dilute it doesn't sound like there was that much blood involved. If there wasn't a lot of pain involved I doubt
you are in danger. I hope your nurse friend gets back to you soon.

John

[Natalia]

Hi 778 and John, and thank you. Yeah perhaps it was a vein that got ruptured as I was violently sick. It was scary! I will still look into it a bit and chat to nurse later...and I decided not to take another epsom salt drink today because I don't feel that my body can handle it (it is sooo disgusting). I am drinking apple juice at the mo.

[Olaf]

Dear Amethyst,

please be very carefull with MMS. It is a strong poison. That's the way it works. MMS produces a lof of free radicales that are a torture to microorganisms (bacteria). But free radicales are a great burden to your body cells too. When you use it you will need a lot of substances that are capable to neutralize radicals inside your body: vitamine C, vitamine E, glutathione, alphalipone acid and/or herbal radical catchers like curcumin, opc, elarg acid, polyphenols, cistus tee and others. Otherwise your cell functions will break down by the use of MMS. A physician form austria has watched a lot of people with cancer dying after using MMS (see here (http://www.homeopathy.at/mms-miracle-mineral-solution/), german only). MMS is only usefull if you want to fight bacterias, such as in malaria.
Contrary it is dangerous if you 're already weakened.

Another word to the so called gall bladder or liver flush cure. It is usefull - but in my understanding only necessary to perform it about two or three times. I made this cure without using magnesium sulfate (as it is described in Ayurveda) in 2005. As a result there came out about a teespoon full little stones that looked like rippled brown rise corns.
Last year I made four cures including magnesium sulfate. Again there were little stones, but this time with a size of very small sand corns. That was all that accumulated in 8 years since the first cure. The next three cures brought absolutely no results. You must not be confused with the soft green "stones" from gallstones. The green "stones" are made of soap which is the result of chemicals from your pancreas reacting with magnesium sulfate and oil. You will ever get those soap stones when you make such a cure. I think these "stones" are without any healthy effect.

Sorry for my limited English, I am a native German.

I am impressed about your courage asking people for help. (I wish I'd have been able to to this in the times of my crisises I had before.) Please be careful with the advices that give other people you - including me. Your body will talk to you, what is good for you and what not. Take care!

Edit: corrected years

[Natalia]

Hi Olaf, thank you for your caring reply, I am so new to this journey of liver flush and MMS and know that I have to be careful. I value good experienced advice because I haven't done it before and want to be safe, but also it is so true what you say to listen to my body. I didn't know that about cancer patients dying after taking MMS, and most of the stuff I have heard about it has been good, that it helped people, but perhaps, like with all medicines and like you say, it can hurt people too. I have not started taking it yet...

[vilcabamba]

I gave my dog a little bit of a kidney cleansing herb and she started bleeding. She has kidney stones. When the stones or crystals break apart they can scratch the urinary tract and give an infection..hence a little blood.
I have been giving her UTI medicine from whole foods that has D-Mannose powder and special probiotics for women that targets the bladder area. This method worked and she stopped bleeding and shaking. She is ok now. She also took grapefruit seed extract. The probiotics for women (vaginal) is really important b/c it clears up infections down there in the bladder and uterine tract.
I also have Dr. Chi's Kidney Chi which I will start after she's healed to dissolve the stones without doing the Epson salts..as I tried it and it burned my ass..sorry to be blunt..ouch. acid!

[grannyfranny100]

I am so sad that people can't have someone close by who is an expert in some of these alternative therapies. It must be very scary to not have a homeopathic doctor or naturopath who understands your entire body and recommends a progression of appropriate therapies based on their diagnosis.

[Baby Steps]

The gentlest detox is juicing, immune enhancers, sauna,high fibre diet. Gentle antiseptics include Manuka Honey, Neem Tea, Turmeric with black pepper in milk, Colloidal Silver. Create conditions for liver to regenerate itself - eat very little sugar & protein, then try again when its stronger.

[Hervé]

[...]

I don't want any stones to get stuck (have not passed any yet) should I take another epsom salt drink and risk being sick again? Or not?

[...]

Colonics/enema...

Epsom salt / magnesium sulfate (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?6528-Liver-detox-Liver-flush&p=561436&viewfull=1#post561436) is a tissue/muscle relaxant as well which allows biliary and pancreatic ducts (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/5d/Digestive_system_showing_bile_duct.png) to stretch without major pain in letting large stones go through and which is different than magnesium oxide that's sold as laxative and which will cause some bleeding and rectum burning sensation if over used.

I would disagree with the poster who mentioned "soap" as a reaction of magnesium and pancreatic discharges: see this post (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?6528-Liver-detox-Liver-flush&p=552916&viewfull=1#post552916) (<--- click) since it was a jaundice (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jaundice#Post-hepatic) that decided me on performing a liver flush ASAP!

Jaundice means the pancreatic/liver common duct was plugged by a large stone and as that was my first liver flush, ever, with Epsom salt, that was the largest stone I ever passed through. All that to say that, that green stone was already plugging my plumbing system well before any reaction with Epsom salt could occur.

So, beware of urban legends... even if promulgated by "doctors"...

PS: I am not an MD so, take the above with the appropriate, customary grain of salt.

[Daozen]

https://medium.com/@Frodonomics2015/six-doctors-for-a-medical-revolution-6579c3960eee

[NancyV]

Hi Amethyst,

Don't be surprised if you react violently to MMS. We probably don't hear as many stories from those who got sick from it. My husband and I got violently ill from MMS and even though I persisted for about 3 weeks I just kept getting sicker and sicker, throwing up and diarrhea several times a day and feeling horrible. MMS actually was a poison for us. We are all unique so we can't be sure anything that works for others will work for us. I like to experiment with many different things. Some work but I've found that I and my husband are allergic to many herbs and other things that most people aren't allergic to. We are often allergic to the same things, maybe about 90% of the time, which is strange.

MMS is one of them. Another that both my husband and I were VERY allergic to is Colloidal Silver. I finally found nano silver and neither of us are allergic to it. Regular colloidal silver has larger particles than the nano particles in "nano" silver such as Silver Sol. You can find it on Amazon or silversolutionusa.com.

I have had a lot of fun experimenting and fairly often poisoning myself and my husband many times over many years. Have fun with your experimenting!


Hi Olaf, thank you for your caring reply, I am so new to this journey of liver flush and MMS and know that I have to be careful. I value good experienced advice because I haven't done it before and want to be safe, but also it is so true what you say to listen to my body. I didn't know that about cancer patients dying after taking MMS, and most of the stuff I have heard about it has been good, that it helped people, but perhaps, like with all medicines and like you say, it can hurt people too. I have not started taking it yet...

[Daozen]

I used to love MMS but now I'm careful. It can hurt your kidneys. Nascent Iodine is much better. I buy it from Infowars.

[Tesla_WTC_Solution]

My colloidal silver froze in the UPS truck -- doh :( so I never tried it! I bought "MesoSilver" nano

Never tried MMS and after readin' this won't ever. @@

[Sidney]

Amathyst, sounds like you have a bile duct blockage,oranother blockage, a stone.probably. i read to keep gold coin grass (gcg) handy for this. Im usung my phone so its hart to link anything, but google gcg for gall bladder cleanse problems, and you will find some info.
I would not do mms until you have a few cleanses behind you. Your body has to have its exit paths cleaned up first.
If you are even a tiny bit concerned about any bleeding, i would not take anythi.g else yet, until your insides have calmed down, water and broth at most. Good luck.
As always, have your drs phone number handy.

[Olaf]

I would disagree with the poster who mentioned "soap" as a reaction of magnesium and pancreatic discharges: see this post (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?6528-Liver-detox-Liver-flush&p=552916&viewfull=1#post552916) (<--- click) since it was a jaundice (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jaundice#Post-hepatic) that decided me on performing a liver flush ASAP!

Jaundice means the pancreatic/liver common duct was plugged by a large stone and as that was my first liver flush, ever, with Epsom salt, that was the largest stone I ever passed through. All that to say that, that green stone was already plugging my plumbing system well before any reaction with Epsom salt could occur.
Soap "stones" are soft. You can squeeze them with your fingers. They disintegrate after a while into an oily fluid. Real stones are solid.

Here in germany there has been much confusion about the liver flush after a book was en vogue that claimed large amounts of soap stones to be real gall bladder stones.
27248
Real stones emitted after first liver flush (Ayurvedic).

27247
Soap "stones" (left) and sediments (probably calcium) emitted after 4th liver flush (day 1 ... 3).

I have images of results of another person, where the real stones (first image) also appeared only after the very first liver flush, but not in the following two. Interesting enough the real stones looked the same, but had different sizes.

[Natalia]

Thanks all for replies.


I also have Dr. Chi's Kidney Chi which I will start after she's healed to dissolve the stones without doing the Epson salts..as I tried it and it burned my ass..sorry to be blunt..ouch. acid![/as I tried it and it burned my ass..sorry to be blunt..ouch. acid!

hehe :) it did burn a bit...yeah there are other ways to detox...

Here she talks about a more gentle method of liver tonifying

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dGgXceaCoZA


I am so sad that people can't have someone close by who is an expert in some of these alternative therapies. It must be very scary to not have a homeopathic doctor or naturopath who understands your entire body and recommends a progression of appropriate therapies based on their diagnosis.

Yeah, this is something that quite a lot of people are having to look into themselves, and it can be a bit scary...we can know that there is something out there that could help us, but what is it and how do we take it and so on...(I haven't got a proper diagnosis yet, just sounds likes and maybes...)...


Hi Amethyst,

Don't be surprised if you react violently to MMS. We probably don't hear as many stories from those who got sick from it. My husband and I got violently ill from MMS and even though I persisted for about 3 weeks I just kept getting sicker and sicker, throwing up and diarrhea several times a day and feeling horrible. MMS actually was a poison for us. We are all unique so we can't be sure anything that works for others will work for us.


Hi Nancy, thank you for sharing, I take it that you took the "correct dose"...if people have had bad reactions to things, I believe that their stories need to be shared, too...


Never tried MMS and after readin' this won't ever. @@

My first feeling about MMS was not to take it...I believe that it does help some people and there are lots of stories about that, but it's not for everyone...I wanted to be open minded and at the time I felt desperate to try it...I will keep it just incase there comes a time when I do feel like it's right to take it...

[Bob]

Mallory-Weiss Tears in the lining. Blood results, present in the vomit. http://www.bupa.co.uk/individuals/health-information/directory/m/mallory-weiss-syndrome

"Both adults and children can get Mallory-Weiss syndrome. The bleeding from a Mallory-Weiss tear usually stops on its own so you might not need any treatment."

Issue is anything that causes the violent purging, can result in a tear, which results in the bleeding.. Infection potential? Unknown.. Usually happens with something toxic enough that the body HAS to purge it out violently and fast.. Those would be the triggers for the tearing..

They all say, get it checked out..

"Symptoms of Mallory-Weiss syndrome can include:


vomiting blood – this is the most common symptom and can range from streaks of blood in your vomit to your vomit looking full of blood
altered blood in your faeces – your faeces may look black and tar-like
feeling light-headed, and even fainting if you have lost a lot of blood
abdominal (tummy) pain
If you notice streaks of blood in your vomit, see your GP. If you notice black tar-like faeces and you have abdominal pain, call for emergency help.


Complications of Mallory-Weiss syndrome

"If you have a lot of bleeding from a Mallory-Weiss tear, it can lead to a serious medical condition called hypovolaemic shock. This is when not enough blood reaches your body tissues, which can damage your vital organs, such as your brain, heart and kidneys. Symptoms of hypovolaemic shock can include feeling:


cold
light-headed or dizzy (you may faint)
confused

"If you develop these symptoms after vomiting or having abdominal pain, or you lose a lot of blood, call for emergency help."

Please be careful Amethyst

[Frederick Jackson]

I trust -- I hope -- you are not taking statin drugs, as they target liver metabolism and there can be a violent perhaps fatal interaction with grapefruit juice, particularly in the large quantities used for a liver flush. The grapefruit warning is on the drug info slips but doctors never seem to warn their patients. I knew someone who was a vegan and did monthly liver flushes. His doctor tried to get him on a statin drug. Thank God he refused to take the statin as it might have killed him. For me just one more reason not to take statin drugs.:lock1:

[Tenzin]

Hi Amethyst,

Were you on MMS before the actual liver flush?

I had violent reaction from MMS too, very painful experience but 9 kidney stones came out, with lots of blood before they were discharged. Was cured of my urinary problems since but too strong. So won't recommend it unless the person is a daredevil.

[Milneman]

If there's blood leaving from your mouth, or your other ends as it were.....stop posting...and get your silly ass to a DOCTOR!!!

:madgrin:

[Hervé]

[...]
Here in germany there has been much confusion about the liver flush after a book was en vogue that claimed large amounts of soap stones to be real gall bladder stones.
[...]

To me it seems the confusion is still reigning because most of the green or tan "soft" stones are still gallbladder stones, they just aren't calcified:

http://curezone.com/cleanse/liver/default.asp

http://curezone.com/clark/liver_original.asp

As far as I am concerned, my own experience with it was quite sobering and deconfusing: no doubt as to what was plugging my digestive system!

[Natalia]

Thanks for concern, but I am sure that I am ok now, I've not seen any blood in my stools or mouth since then...I do take it as a warning sign though, to be careful with things like this...(liver flush, etc)...


"Both adults and children can get Mallory-Weiss syndrome. The bleeding from a Mallory-Weiss tear usually stops on its own so you might not need any treatment."

I haven't tried MMS yet (and am not going to for now) and do not take statins or any other medication.

Juicing, perhaps I will start doing it, that feels right...I just love my food so much! I have made things like cold raw blended soups that were nice, and I love yummy smoothies....so now it looks/feels like I should eat more foods like that...

[Connecting with Sauce]

I only read that you took Epson salts in the morning... The one Andreas Moritz outlines uses 4 amounts of Epson salts. 6pm 8pm then 6:30 am and then 8:30 am. The bile ducts are dilated with the salts.. The two loads before help move the bowels AND open the bile ducts. The two the following morning do the same also helping any stuck stones in the bile ducts to pass...

Did you take 2 or 4?

[Natalia]

I only read that you took Epson salts in the morning... The one Andreas Moritz outlines uses 4 amounts of Epson salts. 6pm 8pm then 6:30 am and then 8:30 am. The bile ducts are dilated with the salts.. The two loads before help move the bowels AND open the bile ducts. The two the following morning do the same also helping any stuck stones in the bile ducts to pass...

Did you take w or 4?

Yes I took all 4. Perhaps I just couldn't stomach it, and with each drink the feeling of sickness got worse.

[Connecting with Sauce]

I only read that you took Epson salts in the morning... The one Andreas Moritz outlines uses 4 amounts of Epson salts. 6pm 8pm then 6:30 am and then 8:30 am. The bile ducts are dilated with the salts.. The two loads before help move the bowels AND open the bile ducts. The two the following morning do the same also helping any stuck stones in the bile ducts to pass...

Did you take w or 4?

Yes I took all 4. Perhaps I just couldn't stomach it, and with each drink the feeling of sickness got worse.

Ok.

Apple juice for a week before?

A Pre enema?

There is a magnesium sulphate substitute if found to be an issue.

The first one can be an issue.

[Natalia]

I only read that you took Epson salts in the morning... The one Andreas Moritz outlines uses 4 amounts of Epson salts. 6pm 8pm then 6:30 am and then 8:30 am. The bile ducts are dilated with the salts.. The two loads before help move the bowels AND open the bile ducts. The two the following morning do the same also helping any stuck stones in the bile ducts to pass...

Did you take w or 4?

Yes I took all 4. Perhaps I just couldn't stomach it, and with each drink the feeling of sickness got worse.

Ok.

Apple juice for a week before?

A Pre enema?

There is a magnesium sulphate substitute if found to be an issue.

The first one can be an issue.

I took apple juice for 3 days before (and on the day), and did not do a Pre enema. What is the substitute?

[Connecting with Sauce]

I only read that you took Epson salts in the morning... The one Andreas Moritz outlines uses 4 amounts of Epson salts. 6pm 8pm then 6:30 am and then 8:30 am. The bile ducts are dilated with the salts.. The two loads before help move the bowels AND open the bile ducts. The two the following morning do the same also helping any stuck stones in the bile ducts to pass...

Did you take w or 4?

Yes I took all 4. Perhaps I just couldn't stomach it, and with each drink the feeling of sickness got worse.

Ok.

Apple juice for a week before?

A Pre enema?

There is a magnesium sulphate substitute if found to be an issue.

The first one can be an issue.

I took apple juice for 3 days before (and on the day), and did not do a Pre enema. What is the substitute?

I am away from my book at the moment... Magnesium Citrate if I remember correctly, don't quote me on that though.

6 days of malic acid /apple juice or even two weeks if gallbladder issues are recommended to soften the stones.. The £7 on the book is money well spent.

[Natalia]

I only read that you took Epson salts in the morning... The one Andreas Moritz outlines uses 4 amounts of Epson salts. 6pm 8pm then 6:30 am and then 8:30 am. The bile ducts are dilated with the salts.. The two loads before help move the bowels AND open the bile ducts. The two the following morning do the same also helping any stuck stones in the bile ducts to pass...

Did you take w or 4?

Yes I took all 4. Perhaps I just couldn't stomach it, and with each drink the feeling of sickness got worse.

Ok.

Apple juice for a week before?

A Pre enema?

There is a magnesium sulphate substitute if found to be an issue.

The first one can be an issue.

I took apple juice for 3 days before (and on the day), and did not do a Pre enema. What is the substitute?

I am away from my book at the moment... Magnesium Citrate if I remember correctly, don't quote me on that though.

6 days of malic acid /apple juice or even two weeks if gallbladder issues are recommended to soften the stones.. The £7 on the book is money well spent.

Thank you. I might try it like that some way down the line, but for now I'll just do gentle stuff to my body, like healthy diet.

[Baby Steps]

Hi Amethyst,

Were you on MMS before the actual liver flush?

I had violent reaction from MMS too, very painful experience but 9 kidney stones came out, with lots of blood before they were discharged. Was cured of my urinary problems since but too strong. So won't recommend it unless the person is a daredevil.

Yes-just zapped a nasty finger infection with Calcium Hypochlorite capsules. Used cider apple vinegar pill to activate. Really powerful, but got stomach ache for 2 days afterwards!

Also wanted to mention Modified Citrus Pectin, its great & very gentle. The supplements are expensive, but looking under the baking goods category- MCP pectin-the same thing-is $12 for a pound. No too bad
H

[Ewan]

http://www.quackwatch.com/01QuackeryRelatedTopics/flushes.html

I was interested enough to want to try this as I personally think many of our modern diseases are due to our modern diet, any chance to detox should be considered.
However as a transplant patient I cannot be too cavalier in my approach. Last thursday I was in hospital for my regular check-up so I asked the Dr. about taking epsom salts. Cutting the story short she said Liver stones were very uncommon in the west, more prevalent in the east. Most likely result would be a few gall stones which would be back in a few years anway. She suggested I do a little more research.
Hence the link above in this post. Rather confirms what Olaf surmises in http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?72656-Liver-Flush-Diary--with-photos-&p=954938&viewfull=1#post954938