Scottish Referendum - An emotional toll

[indigopete]

Hi

I just wanted to share my experiences of the last few weeks which have left me emotionally exhausted, stressed and quite unhappy. It’s a bit of a monologue but may be of interest to “spectators” to the process.

I say that while at at the same time fully endorsing the whole event - it's an incredible thing to live through and a hugely successful debate. I don't think I've ever seen politics mean so much to ordinary people in my entire life.

Full disclosure: I'm a "Yesser". Not because I hate England - I love it, but because I think societies are richer when they diversify. In my opinion they can't diversify culturally without being able to diversify politically. I really hated seeing the bulldozing of all the heavy industries from Scotland when the rest of the world continued to build ships and make steel.

Then when Tony Blair was elected, great hope turned to great shame with all the lying and corruption over middle East invasions. Then the final nail in the coffin with Gordon Brown presiding over the biggest financial catastrophe in living memory (and having the gall to tell Scottish voters today that they are "walking into a trap". The guy is a bona fide psychopath that he can do that without a conscience in my opinion).

Anyway, the main source of the stress is that one by one I discovered that about 5 of my closest friends and professional acquaintances are quite fervent "No"ers. This really took me by surprise and was a bit of a body blow. Don't worry - we're not going to fall out or anything - we have been careful to exchange views in a measured way, but beneath the surface you can feel the tension and resentment. In particular, my best mate’s wife is English and she hates the independence movement with a passion. I find it very difficult to exchange reasoned views in that kind of atmosphere. I'd probably say this is the worst I've felt in a year or too and it's lasted for an entire month now which is very rare for me. A combination of isolation, anticipation and worry about another “slap down” for the Scots in the national media after a No result.

I’m not even living in the UK right now but I spoke to my sister the other night and she says everyone’s on a knife edge. People are working so hard for this but there are passionate and legitimate views on both sides. They are expecting a huge turnout - 90% is being talked of which is unheard of. The “#indyref” twitter feed is running at about 200 tweets per minute at peak times. The disappointment for one or other side is going to be huge. Expectations are massive simply because it's so close (at least in the polls - we may get hammered in the actual vote).

Looking forward though, I really hope this changes the political landscape in the UK forever and drives a great big stake through the heart of the hitherto political class. Make no mistake, they are sh*tting their pants. They didn't expect this and there's nothing more terrifying to a career politician than being surrounded by a growling population that suddenly started to think about politics.

The best outcome would be if it catalyses change around the entire UK and other regions started waking up and realising what they can do. That would re-unite people in a much healthier way than simply being fish in the same barrel ruled by the same set of psychopaths.

Anyway, now I've got all that off my chest, thanks for listening if you got this far with my monologue :)

I'll sit back, wait for the result and try to keep my nerves under control.

P.S. Apologies to readers from countries who had to spill blood for their independence ! This must seem like a walk in the park to you :)

[mahalall]

Smile: the illusionary construct of the debate is a distraction from the timeless unchanging sensation of what Scotland is.
A y or N will what not change that difference in the genetic vibe of the two lands.
That sigh of relieve when you cross the boarder from south to north will always be the same regardless of the vote.
ZTQScQ3g4Gc

[indigopete]

At least people have not lost their sense of humour ! :)

https://twitter.com/ScotlandYesVote/status/512372474575867905/photo/1

https://twitter.com/frankieboyle/status/512377268598222848

[Flash]

Welcome to Québec (Canada) 1980's and 1990's. The yessers for separation lost the referendum twice, once in each decade. The last time was extremely close. Everyone was feverish and the turn out very high.

Good luck tommorrow the Scotts, that their desire prevails

[aranuk]

Hi Mahalall , when I cross the border going north into Scotland I not only sigh a big sigh of relief, but I feel I am in the country of my birth, and it is such a glorious feeling. I say to myself I am back home in Bonny Scotland. There are tears in ma ees the noo writing this. Tomorrow is a very important day for the Scots, tomorrow we get to decide whether we want to be ruled by the English oligarks or not. In 1707 our Scottish aristocrats ganged up wi there English cousins and gave our country away without the people of Scotland's permission. Tomorrow we "almost get a say" on whether we stay with Westminster/ City of London Elite/ Rothschild ****ing wankers. I say almost get a say. What I mean is that for three centuries the Scottish people have had their Scottish heritage knocked out of them systematically by being banned by the English ruling class for speaking Scottish Gaelic and other things. In the modern era the TV and radio have had their way with us as they say. The TV has ridiculed the Scottishness in many ways. The BBC and other TV stations in Britain have been doing their usual thing as always brainwashing the Scots as much as they are able to sway the vote against the YES vote. They have had "celebrities" like Mick fricken Jaeger saying to vote NO. If you think about it for a second, why are the likes of David Cameron, Nick Glegg and Ed Milliband not wanting a YES vote, why are the banking establishment wanting a NO vote? Simple, they use us. They have used us since 1707. My family ancestors will be happy tomorrow if the result is for the YES vote. I will be happy too I can tell you!

Stan

[aranuk]

Hi

I just wanted to share my experiences of the last few weeks which have left me emotionally exhausted, stressed and quite unhappy. It’s a bit of a monologue but may be of interest to “spectators” to the process.

I say that while at at the same time fully endorsing the whole event - it's an incredible thing to live through and a hugely successful debate. I don't think I've ever seen politics mean so much to ordinary people in my entire life.

Full disclosure: I'm a "Yesser". Not because I hate England - I love it, but because I think societies are richer when they diversify. In my opinion they can't diversify culturally without being able to diversify politically. I really hated seeing the bulldozing of all the heavy industries from Scotland when the rest of the world continued to build ships and make steel.

Then when Tony Blair was elected, great hope turned to great shame with all the lying and corruption over middle East invasions. Then the final nail in the coffin with Gordon Brown presiding over the biggest financial catastrophe in living memory (and having the gall to tell Scottish voters today that they are "walking into a trap". The guy is a bona fide psychopath that he can do that without a conscience in my opinion).

Anyway, the main source of the stress is that one by one I discovered that about 5 of my closest friends and professional acquaintances are quite fervent "No"ers. This really took me by surprise and was a bit of a body blow. Don't worry - we're not going to fall out or anything - we have been careful to exchange views in a measured way, but beneath the surface you can feel the tension and resentment. In particular, my best mate’s wife is English and she hates the independence movement with a passion. I find it very difficult to exchange reasoned views in that kind of atmosphere. I'd probably say this is the worst I've felt in a year or too and it's lasted for an entire month now which is very rare for me. A combination of isolation, anticipation and worry about another “slap down” for the Scots in the national media after a No result.

I’m not even living in the UK right now but I spoke to my sister the other night and she says everyone’s on a knife edge. People are working so hard for this but there are passionate and legitimate views on both sides. They are expecting a huge turnout - 90% is being talked of which is unheard of. The “#indyref” twitter feed is running at about 200 tweets per minute at peak times. The disappointment for one or other side is going to be huge. Expectations are massive simply because it's so close (at least in the polls - we may get hammered in the actual vote).

Looking forward though, I really hope this changes the political landscape in the UK forever and drives a great big stake through the heart of the hitherto political class. Make no mistake, they are sh*tting their pants. They didn't expect this and there's nothing more terrifying to a career politician than being surrounded by a growling population that suddenly started to think about politics.

The best outcome would be if it catalyses change around the entire UK and other regions started waking up and realising what they can do. That would re-unite people in a much healthier way than simply being fish in the same barrel ruled by the same set of psychopaths.

Anyway, now I've got all that off my chest, thanks for listening if you got this far with my monologue :)

I'll sit back, wait for the result and try to keep my nerves under control.

P.S. Apologies to readers from countries who had to spill blood for their independence ! This must seem like a walk in the park to you :)

Hi Pete, are you Scottish by any chance? I sympathized entirely with your post. The powers that be really want us to vote NO don't they? They are pulling the plugs out in their campaign. As you say Pete they are ****ting their pants. They are losing their power. As the London taxi driver artiste said the other day, if the YES vote wins then that gives the ordinary English people some hope that they too can get more say into how their country is run. Instead of the bankers puppets the politicians from the three major parties, the people might have a chance. We all know here on Avalon that the Rothschild elitist families rule the world. Why do they want Scottish people to have no say in what happens in their country? Because they profit enormously from it.

Stan

[indigopete]

Hi Pete, are you Scottish by any chance?

Hi Stan

Yes indeed :) Good to read your observations on everything. I was thinking we probably were a few points short of freedom tonight, but Andy Murray's just popped his head above the parapet and that might just swing a few people. (Give me Andy Murray over Gordon Brown any day :) ).

Good luck to you & yours !!

[aranuk]

Yes Pete, Andy Murray did something that I thought was impossible. A Scotsman winning Men's Wimbledon! Gordon who? Will anyone ever remember anything great he has ever done? I doubt it. Tony Bliar and Gordon Brown gave the Scots a bad reputation. We are sick of that and are ready to show the world we have better people here than these two bastardos.

Stan

[Flash]

I am not sure the PTB is s h t n g in their pants. Referendum practices and studies of how it evolves when some parts of the western world want to split has been thoroughly tested in Québec. We ended up with the war measures for a short period of time, implemented by the federal government (would be England in your case). Scared enough people to ensure a no vote a decade later. Then a close vote yet another decade after. We have been the testing ground for these ^political upheavals and for CIA Mk Ultra studies. They aren't scared.

However, deep in my heart, I still hope some surprises awaits them.

Heavy high pitch noise in my right ear while writing here ??? ......

[Wind]

Heavy high pitch noise in my right ear while writing here ??? ......

The energies have been ramping up, my right ear has been sounding like beehive lately, actually I hardly can hear anything with it now!

[Snowflower]

It all depends on what kind of voting machines will be used. If they are computerized, then the vote is already done and Scotland will remain under the yoke of the royal psychopaths. If it is done with paper ballots, then it depends on who is counting the votes, and what kind of checks are in place.

[3(C)+me]

I have to say I have been watching this with some interest. I am in USA and I really don't have a strong opinion about it but If I was Scottish with all I know about the history of how England has treated them over these long many years and how England is really showing the world how it really works, the queen, the buried abuse and how it flaunts his right to rule, I think in these times a region would want to break from that government. I can see how it is a very emotional topic and people are showing extremes in opinion but such are these extreme times. I will wake up Friday with much interest to see the outcome.

[Tesseract]

post deleted

[sheme]

Personally I think it is a vibration thing we have become too discordant -welcome to your world I hope you take your freedom with both hands and prosper in peace and security.

[indigopete]

Despite all the fear-mongering of the No campaign, the vibe that I am getting from the yes crowd is unbelievably positive and uplifting and not at all tainted by the ugly kind of nationalism that can exist. I think that, given the times we live in and the system we live under, people have just been slow to start dreaming again, and that is why the Yes took a long time to gain a lot of support. It is seemingly insane to split an island into two - but the trick is to split it legislatively without splitting it physically.

Exactly !

There's no question of there being a "physical border". It will be like the Isle of Man - we'll still have an integrated commercial, cultural, sporting and industrial life. National borders are not what they were 100 years ago where basically defined your "enemies". The world is already more joined up electronically than any 19th Century political philosopher could have imagined in their wildest dreams.

Your point about being able to opt out of military campaigns is very relevant to the Scotland / UK relationship. We would not have participated in the whole Iraq venture if we'd been independent. Neither would we be a frontline nuclear military power. At the same time we would be participating constructively in cultural, industrial, commercial and sporting life with the wider British community.

The UK is simply an outdated arrangement - a straight jacket that we are bursting out of. If it doesn't happen now it will surely change things for the better.

[indigopete]

I am not sure the PTB is s h t n g in their pants. Referendum practices and studies of how it evolves when some parts of the western world want to split has been thoroughly tested in Québec. We ended up with the war measures for a short period of time, implemented by the federal government (would be England in your case). Scared enough people to ensure a no vote a decade later. Then a close vote yet another decade after. We have been the testing ground for these ^political upheavals and for CIA Mk Ultra studies. They aren't scared.

Hi Flash

The Quebec experience haunts me I have to admit. It must be demoralising to have come back twice and have lost twice. There seems to be something mystical about the 50/50.

Thanks for your thoughts !

Pete

[Becky]

I love what you wrote here...
Looking forward though, I really hope this changes the political landscape in the UK forever and drives a great big stake through the heart of the hitherto political class. Make no mistake, they are sh*tting their pants. They didn't expect this and there's nothing more terrifying to a career politician than being surrounded by a growling population that suddenly started to think about politics.

The best outcome would be if it catalyses change around the entire UK and other regions started waking up and realising what they can do. That would re-unite people in a much healthier way than simply being fish in the same barrel ruled by the same set of psychopaths.

People are waking up and this is part of the process.

[jackovesk]

FYI...

As Scotland votes in independence referendum, it’s time to ask: should Australia become a republic?

5 hours ago September 18, 2014 3:28PM

27256

[aranuk]

It all depends on what kind of voting machines will be used. If they are computerized, then the vote is already done and Scotland will remain under the yoke of the royal psychopaths. If it is done with paper ballots, then it depends on who is counting the votes, and what kind of checks are in place.

Hi Snowflower, as far as I know there are paper ballots and a pencil on a string. There are officials counting the ballot papers. No electronic machines for counting.
After I have a shower I am off to make my vote.



Stan

[jackovesk]

It all depends on what kind of voting machines will be used. If they are computerized, then the vote is already done and Scotland will remain under the yoke of the royal psychopaths. If it is done with paper ballots, then it depends on who is counting the votes, and what kind of checks are in place.

Hi Snowflower, as far as I know there are paper ballots and a pencil on a string. There are officials counting the ballot papers. No electronic machines for counting.
After I have a shower I am off to make my vote.

Stan

Is it a (Yes) or (No) Vote Stan..???

[Roisin]

Prime Minister David Cameron is nothing but a sleekit wee man! Gang scootlund! kin th' force be wi' ye!

[Curt]

Good luck to all our Scottish brothers and sisters today as they cast their votes!

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/10/Flag_of_Scotland.svg/1280px-Flag_of_Scotland.svg.png

[jackovesk]

Prime Minister David Cameron is nothing but a sleekit wee man! Gang scootlund! kin th' force be wi' ye!

:yes4: Aye lassie a (heid-the-baw) is he, aw and a reeeeight (minger) to boot...:wizard:

[42]

I'm from 100% Celtic stock, Scottish and Irish, but born in England and living in Canada. I'll weigh in to say that i support a Yes vote with, i'm sure, the blessing of my ancestry.

My hope is, however, that the focus and result should be one of positive independence and not the chaos that was so heartbreaking in Ireland's struggles with independence and Quebec's economic chaos as a result of years of separatist acrimony. Should Australia separate? Should Canada? NZ? Hong Kong seems to be doing ok.

[Ultima Thule]

Tell us how it looks like when you get back Stan!!! Eager to hear about the poll!!!

UT

[Roisin]

Prime Minister David Cameron is nothing but a sleekit wee man! Gang scootlund! kin th' force be wi' ye!

:yes4: Aye lassie a (heid-the-baw) is he, aw and a reeeeight (minger) to boot...:wizard:

Richt yer laddie! ... 'n' he's an' a' a sniveling reptoid fae heid tae toe wha deserves tae be locked up in a padded cell somewhere wi' th' key thrown oot tae!:cheers:

[aranuk]

It all depends on what kind of voting machines will be used. If they are computerized, then the vote is already done and Scotland will remain under the yoke of the royal psychopaths. If it is done with paper ballots, then it depends on who is counting the votes, and what kind of checks are in place.

Hi Snowflower, as far as I know there are paper ballots and a pencil on a string. There are officials counting the ballot papers. No electronic machines for counting.
After I have a shower I am off to make my vote.



Stan

Is it a (Yes) or (No) Vote Stan..???


Either guess or read my posts above Jacko my old spud. Na a will save ye the time, it is an emphatic AYE, och aye the noo!

Stan

[Billy]

Hi Pete, are you Scottish by any chance?

Hi Stan

Yes indeed :) Good to read your observations on everything. I was thinking we probably were a few points short of freedom tonight, but Andy Murray's just popped his head above the parapet and that might just swing a few people. (Give me Andy Murray over Gordon Brown any day :) ).

Good luck to you & yours !!

So Andy Murray has done a U turn. Good news indeed.

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/sep/18/andy-murray-on-scottish-independence-vote-lets-do-this

Poor guy is now being threatened by Westmonster trolls on twitter.

https://www.facebook.com/EuCitizensForAnIndependentScotland/photos/a.489171851141305.108216.486344144757409/779256182132869/?type=1&fref=nf

[araucaria]

This thread suggests to me that Scots ought to replace English as the international language. Mind, it's going to sound like Volapuk for a while until everyone gets the hang of it :)

[Ultima Thule]

Aye, I ken scottish fine(ish), I wouldna mind it spoken here.

UT

[Star Tsar]

Russell Brand's Trews Opinion

(Caution bad language @ times)

u7VNQih51T0

[jackovesk]

Russell Brand's Trews Opinion

(Caution bad language @ times)

u7VNQih51T0

:bump:....

I'm going to start a separate 'Thread' on this...:yes4:

[aranuk]

This thread suggests to me that Scots ought to replace English as the international language. Mind, it's going to sound like Volapuk for a while until everyone gets the hang of it :)

Araucaria what on earth are you saying here? It sounds to me like a load of ****. I do not understand a single thing you are saying? You usually have an intelligent thing to say. So please excuse me if I have misunderstood your gobbledegook.


Stan

[jackovesk]

Unfortunately or Fortunately the Nays have it...:noidea:

SCOTLAND has rejected independence, with 23 out of 32 voting areas declared, despite the crucial Glasgow region having given its result - a resounding Yes.

The No ballots in favour of Scotland staying in the United Kingdom are in the lead by at 54.33 percent to 45.67 percent.

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/world/scotland-independence-referendum-polls-closed-and-counting-begins/story-fni0xs61-1227063093029?nk=c171f8fd8af895b23266028d1ce77afd

[greybeard]

Its not looking good at the moment.
54% have voted no with only a few areas results to come in.
Ch

[aranuk]

It is now 5.47 and almost all the results are in and it looks like the Elite and their AI super computers had it all under control before the voting started. Well at least that's what I I think.
It would seem it is bad news for the rest of the world. How can we ever get a say in how our country is run when these bastard Elitist bastards have the technology to predict elections or referendums? The Scottish people who are NOT brainwashed are unfortunately outnumbered by the brainwashed majority. At least it was a small majority which is a credit to the awake Scottish people. I doubt there is the same percentage in USA or in England. Or anywhere. No I think Spain perhaps has a more awake and aware population. Maybe Greece too, or France and Italy.

Stan

[araucaria]

Aranuk, I was merely responding to the attempts of posters from thousands of miles from Scotland to write in a Scottish brand of their usual English, - maybe some of my neurons misfired, never mind. Normal service will be resumed as soon as possible.

That seems to be the order of the day with this No vote. Independence was a big decision to make, possibly too big for many who presumably took the 'Devo max' offer (which I take it means maximum devolution) at face value. But watch out for the backlash, from ordinary people in England as well. This seems to have been an acrimonious affiar, and things that were said will not be forgotten. We already had signs yesterday that the government will be dragging its feet. http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/scottish-independence/scottish-independence-tory-revolt-against-devo-max-grows-as-rail-minister-claire-perry-joins-9741966.html
When the abusive husband avoids a painful divorce, he can make the marriage even more painful than before. This is not looking good.

[Cidersomerset]

I was personally split 50/50 to whether I wanted the Scots to leave. My heart
said go for it, but my head said we needed the social conscious of Scotland
to help change the whole of UK politics beginning in Westminster and the
monarchy.......


http://www.educationcity.com/uk/sites/default/files/Welcome%20Back%20Scotland.jpg



Scottish referendum: How will the result be decided? BBC News
.
KkmsbDhmc-g

Published on 18 Sep 2014
The BBC's Jeremy Vine explains how the votes will be counted int he Scottish
independence referendum.


----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Scottish referendum: Scotland votes 'no' to independence

nKJ7ppAFhhQ

Published on 19 Sep 2014


Scotland has voted 'no' in the independence referendum and will stay a part of the
United Kingdom. . Report by Mark Morris.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Scotland votes 'no': Salmond accepts defeat

f29JOz0lMWo

Published on 18 Sep 2014

Scottish voters have rejected independence, deciding to remain part of the United
Kingdom after a historic referendum that shook the country to its core. Scots voted
55 percent to 45 percent against independence.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Scotland votes 'no' to independence in historic referendum

nln9PqsIgMI

Published on 18 Sep 2014


Scotland voters have opted to continue as part of the United Kingdom in a historic
referendum vote. Our Nahlah Ayed reports from Edinburgh.





----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------





http://static.bbci.co.uk/frameworks/barlesque/2.66.0/desktop/3.5/img/blq-blocks_grey_alpha.png


19 September 2014 Last updated at 08:21

Scottish referendum: Scotland votes 'No' to independenceComments


Short vid on link......http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-29270441

Scotland has voted to stay in the United Kingdom after voters decisively rejected
independence.

With the results in from all 32 council areas, the "No" side polled 2,001,926, votes
to 1,617,989 for "Yes".

Scotland's First Minister Alex Salmond called for unity and urged the unionist
parties to deliver on more powers.

UK Prime Minister David Cameron said he was delighted the UK would remain
together and said the commitments on extra powers would be honoured.

Mr Cameron said the three main unionist parties at Westminster would now follow
through with their pledge to deliver more powers to the Scottish Parliament.

"We will ensure that those commitments are honoured in full," he said.

He announced that Lord Smith of Kelvin, who led Glasgow's staging of the
Commonwealth Games, would oversee the process to take forward the
commitments, with new powers over tax, spending and welfare to be agreed by
November, and draft legislation published by January.

The prime minister also acknowledged that the people of England, Wales and
Northern Ireland must have a bigger say over their affairs.

And he promised a resolution to the West Lothian question - the fact that Scottish
MPs can vote on English issues at Westminster.

"In Wales there are proposals to give the Welsh Government and Assembly more
powers and I want Wales to be at the heart of the debate on how to make the
United Kingdom work for all our nations," he said.

In other developments:

The pound hit a two-year high against the euro and a two-week high against the
US dollar, as Scotland voted against independence.
Royal Bank of Scotland said it would keep its headquarters in Scotland following
the "No" vote.

Scotland rejected independence by 55% to 45%. For latest results and full
coverage, go to bbc.co.uk/scotland-decides.
The result became a mathematical certainty at 06:08, as the returning officer in
Fife announced a comfortable No vote.

Shortly afterwards, Mr Salmond said he accepted the defeat and called for national unity.

He said the referendum and the high turnout had been a "triumph for the
democratic process" and promised to keep his pledge in the Edinburgh Agreement
which paved the way for the referendum to respect the result and work for the
benefit of Scotland and the United Kingdom.

Short Vid on link.....http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-29270441

The moment the No side won an unassailable lead over the Yes camp

He told supporters: "The unionist parties made vows late in the campaign to
devolve more powers to Scotland.

"Scotland will expect these to be honoured in rapid course - as a reminder, we have
been promised a second reading of a Scotland Bill by March 27 next year.

"Not just the 1.6 million Scots who voted for independence will demand that
timetable is followed but all Scots who participated in this referendum will demand
that timetable is followed."

Mr Salmond said he would shortly speak to the Prime Minister on the results.

But he highlighted the "empowerment" of first-time voters, including 16 and 17-year-olds.

And the First Minister said: "Whatever else we can say about this referendum
campaign, we have touched sections of the community who have never before been
touched by politics, these sections of the community have touched us and touched
the political process.

Short Vid on link......http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-29270441

Alex Salmond: "I call on all of Scotland to follow suit in accepting the democratic
verdict of the people of Scotland"

"I don't think that will ever be allowed to go back to business as usual in politics again."

In a rallying call to his supporters, Mr Salmond urged the Yes voters to reflect on
how far they had come.

"I don't think any of us, whenever we entered politics, would have thought such a
thing to be either credible or possible," he said.

"Over the last few weeks we have seen a scare and a fear of enormous proportions
- not a scaremongering directed at the Scottish people but the scare and the fear at
the heart of the Westminster establishment as they realise the mass movement of
people that was going forward in Scotland.

"Today of all days as we bring Scotland together, let us not dwell on the distance
we have fallen short, let us dwell on the distance we have travelled and have
confidence the movement is abroad in Scotland that will take this nation forward
and we shall go forward as one nation."

This margin of victory for the Better Together campaign - 55% to 45% - was
greater by about 3% than that anticipated by the final opinion polls. The winning
total needed was 1,852,828.

Speaking in Downing Street, Mr Cameron said the result was decisive.

He said: "Now the debate has been settled for a generation, or as Alex Salmond
has said: 'Perhaps for a lifetime'.

"So their can be no disputes, no re-runs; we have heard the will of the Scottish people."


Short Vid on link.....

David Cameron: ''Like millions of other people, I am delighted''

The prime minister also spoke of the implications for the other nations of the UK.

"In Wales there are proposals to give the Welsh Government and Assembly more
powers and I want Wales to be at the heart of the debate on how to make the
United Kingdom work for all our nations," he said.

"In Northern Ireland, we must work to ensure that the devolved institutions function effectively."

'English voices'

Mr Cameron said "millions of voices of England must also be heard".

"The question of English votes for English laws, the so-called West Lothian
question, requires a decisive answer so just as Scotland will vote separately in the
Scottish Parliament on their issues on tax, spending and welfare, so too England as
well as Wales and Northern Ireland should be able to vote on these issues.

"And all this must take place in tandem with and at the same pace as the
settlement for Scotland."

Mr Cameron said the referendum had "stirred strong passions", "electrified politics
in Scotland and caught the imagination of people across the whole of our United Kingdom".

http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/77687000/gif/_77687227_result_alldeclared464_no.gif

Results graphic
Scottish referendum results in detail

He concluded: "It will be remembered as a powerful demonstration of the strength
and vitality of our ancient democracy."

Alistair Darling, who led the Better Together campaign, said the people of Scotland
had "chosen unity over division and positive change rather than needless separation".

"It is a momentous result for Scotland and also for the United Kingdom as a whole," he said.

Mr Darling said the result had "reaffirmed all that we have in common and the
bonds that tie us together", adding: "Let them never be broken."

He also acknowledged that the campaign had highlighted the need for change.

No supporters celebrate
"As we celebrate, let us also listen," he said.

http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/77683000/jpg/_77683087_reuters.jpg


"More than 85% of the Scottish population has voted. People who were disengaged
from politics have turned out in large numbers.

"While they have voted on the constitution, that was not the only or perhaps the
major issue that drove them to the polls.

"Every political party must listen to their cry for change, which could be echoed in
every part of our United Kingdom but had this opportunity to express itself in Scotland."

Mr Darling thanked his "great team of volunteers" who had worked on the Better
Together campaign.

'Real disappointment'

He added: "You represent the majority of opinion. Your voices have been heard. We
have taken on the argument and won. The silent have spoken."

Mr Salmond's deputy, Nicola Sturgeon, said in an earlier concession statement that
there was a "real sense of disappointment that we have fallen narrowly short of
securing a 'Yes' vote".

But she said the country had been "changed forever" and vowed to work
with "anyone in any way" to secure more powers for Scotland.

The vote was the culmination of a two-year campaign. Talks will now begin on
devolving more powers to Scotland.

Glasgow, Scotland's largest council area and the third largest city in Britain, voted
in favour of independence by 194,779 to 169,347, with Dundee, West
Dunbartonshire and North Lanarkshire also voting "Yes".

But Edinburgh, the nation's capital, rejected independence by 194,638 to 123,927,
while Aberdeen City voted "No" by a margin of more than 20,000 votes.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-29270441
-

[araucaria]

Check this out:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kUR-HgAtwtg

"Published on 18 Sep 2014
http://www.undergroundworldnews.com
There is damning evidence that shows that this vote is a fraud. Just from the video and the pictures alone, we can see errors! Can you imagine how much is wrong? This is the Best Video proof you will also ever get showing the votes were changed to NO on purpose!"

See also:
http://aanirfan.blogspot.fr/2014/09/vote-fraud-in-scottish-referendum.html

[Cidersomerset]

Articles from David Ickes site this morning.....


Vote Fraud in Scottish referendum

new Friday 19th September 2014 at 09:02 By david-icke


http://www.davidicke.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/cnn-587x349.jpg


‘In Dundee, a strong YES area, the count was suspended twice due to fire alarms.

The turnout in the strong YES area of Dundee was 78.8%, which is lower than the 85% turnout in Scotland as a whole

In Dundee, ‘Yes’ ballot papers were spotted on a ‘No’ table.’

Read more: Vote Fraud in Scottish referendum


Does This Video Show Vote Rigging In The Scottish Independence Vote?

new Friday 19th September 2014 at 08:55 By david-icke


LbJif7vISQg


http://aanirfan.blogspot.co.uk/2014/09/vote-fraud-in-scottish-referendum.html

===============================================================


Scottish referendum: Police investigate electoral fraud probe in Glasgow

new Friday 19th September 2014 at 08:54 By david-icke


w5LcPZFAPyk

==============================================================


http://cdn.images.express.co.uk/img/page/express_logo.png


Scottish referendum: Police investigate electoral fraud probe in Glasgow

THE Scottish referendum count was brought into controversy after reports of 10
cases of electoral fraud in Glasgow emerged.



http://cdn.images.express.co.uk/img/dynamic/1/590x/yes-vote-512527.jpg


‘Police at the Emirates Stadium in the Scottish city said they were investigating
possible cases of double vote impersonation where people pretend to be someone
else, cast a vote and then the real person later turns up to vote again.

Colin Edgar, spokesman for the Counting Officer, said: “What appears to have
happened is somebody has arrived at the polling station and given their name and
asked to vote.

“The polling clerk has gone to cross off their name and it appears that they have
already voted, so what we did was contact the police straight away.’

Read more: Scottish referendum: Police investigate electoral fraud probe in Glasgow

http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/512527/Scottish-referendum-Police-investigate-electoral-fraud-probe-Glasgow

[sound consciousness]

What about England Wales and N. Ireland, we want free tuition fees , we do not want Scottish labour or any other party from voting in the UK...we want a certain amount odf devolution...we want the same handouts as the Scottish people £1,600 pounds......it is the only way forward more than 70 million people want a level playing field

[Cidersomerset]

What about England Wales and N. Ireland, we want free tuition fees , we do not want Scottish labour
or any other party from voting in the UK...we want a certain amount odf devolution...we want the same
handouts as the Scottish people £1,600 pounds......it is the only way forward more than 70 million people want a level playing field

I'l believe it when I see it, though Cameron has started the ball rolling, it will be 'punctured' further down
the line with the usual Westminster bureaucracy......


http://cdn.images.express.co.uk/img/page/express_logo.png


'Scottish vote WILL trigger devolution across the UK': David Cameron

PRIME Minister David Cameron has said promised new powers for
Scotland - triggered by the referendum - will see more devolution
throughout the UK.


http://cdn.images.express.co.uk/img/dynamic/1/590x/-512636.jpg

David Cameron has promised to roll out more devolution throughout the UK[SWNS]

Read More.....

http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/512636/Scottish-vote-WILL-trigger-devolution-across-the-UK-David-Cameron

[araucaria]

The site http://beforeitsnews.com/r2/?url=http://www.theguardian.com/notesandqueries/query/0,,-1051,00.html links to this other site below, which adds another chilling detail to the story. I discover that UK voting slips have counterfoils that can be used to trace voters and know how they voted. Unbelievable and definitely not what I am used to here.


… During that process we witnessed dozens of sacks splitting and many hundreds of spent ballot papers spilling for all to see. This adds weight to the conspiracy theory that security around the election documents is very lax, and that the vote-tracing procedure has been used to identify people voting for fringe candidates. Votes can be traced by matching the numbered ballot paper to its similarly numbered counterfoil; the numbered counterfoil also bears the voter's registration number from the electoral register which is hand-written by the Polling Clerk when the ballot paper is issued. As all the ballot papers for each candidate - including fringe candidates such as Sinn Fein, communists, fascists, nationalists, etc. - are bundled together, anyone having access to those documents can speedily trace the name and address of every voter for such candidates if they wish. In 1981 Gordon Winter - a former agent of BOSS, the South African Secret Service - writing in his book, Inside Boss, claimed that the South African government knew the identity of everyone who voted for the Communist Party of Great Britain - thanks to British intelligence using this simple vote-tracing procedure. In any event, the notion that we have a secret vote is very misleading. One positive outcome of the 1987 general election, however, was that the incineration of 91 tons of ballot papers contributed to the 21 megawatts per hour output of the North London Waste Authority plant, which supplies electricity to Tottenham.

David Northmore, Author of The Freedom Of Information Handbook, London W1.
http://www.theguardian.com/notesandqueries/query/0,,-1051,00.html

[scanner]

Already posted http://youtu.be/kUR-HgAtwtg

[Gardener]

The vid of the girl placing the votes on piles is not proof, she could merely be correcting a mistake she made and switching them into the correct pile, simple human error. But the vid of the YES X paper on the NO table is clear, and could be the whole pile. Unless of course the vid is doctored. Going to watch again for continuity.

[araucaria]

The vid of the girl placing the votes on piles is not proof, she could merely be correcting a mistake she made and switching them into the correct pile, simple human error. But the vid of the YES X paper on the NO table is clear, and could be the whole pile. Unless of course the vid is doctored. Going to watch again for continuity.
Not if she’s swapping a bunch of votes for just one. Watch how the height of the two piles changes. It’s not rocket science to check yeses and noes, why should she make a mistake? But the problem is that someone should be checking her. The French system is not perfect but to me this is scandalously shoddy vote-counting. We would have had a YES paper and a NO paper that voters would choose between and there would be no room for mistakes, even before double-checking.

The counting system itself is flawed if individuals are left to do it on their own. Here in France we have people working in fours (with the public breathing down their necks) – one to open the envelopes and display any spoilt ballots, another to read out the vote, and two more to note it down, checking with each other at least every fifty votes. That is how it is done even with a two-way choice.

See also: http://aanirfan.blogspot.fr/2014/09/vote-fraud-in-scottish-referendum.html

[aranuk]

Check this out:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kUR-HgAtwtg

"Published on 18 Sep 2014
http://www.undergroundworldnews.com
There is damning evidence that shows that this vote is a fraud. Just from the video and the pictures alone, we can see errors! Can you imagine how much is wrong? This is the Best Video proof you will also ever get showing the votes were changed to NO on purpose!"

See also:
http://aanirfan.blogspot.fr/2014/09/vote-fraud-in-scottish-referendum.html

Hi Araucaria, that video was in Clackmananshire which was thought to be a yes district too. It does look like the woman is indeed deliberately stacking them in the wrong pile. She could hardly make any excuse as confusion of the papers as they were the simplest of ballot papers I have ever voted on. Nobody of average intelligence could be so confused. She kept taking two yes papers and stacking them in the no pile always keeping at least one yes as a cover. Damning proof.

Stan

[aranuk]

The vid of the girl placing the votes on piles is not proof, she could merely be correcting a mistake she made and switching them into the correct pile, simple human error. But the vid of the YES X paper on the NO table is clear, and could be the whole pile. Unless of course the vid is doctored. Going to watch again for continuity.
Not if she’s swapping a bunch of votes for just one. Watch how the height of the two piles changes. It’s not rocket science to check yeses and noes, why should she make a mistake? But the problem is that someone should be checking her. The French system is not perfect but to me this is scandalously shoddy vote-counting. We would have had a YES paper and a NO paper that voters would choose between and there would be no room for mistakes, even before double-checking.

The counting system itself is flawed if individuals are left to do it on their own. Here in France we have people working in fours (with the public breathing down their necks) – one to open the envelopes and display any spoilt ballots, another to read out the vote, and two more to note it down, checking with each other at least every fifty votes. That is how it is done even with a two-way choice.

See also: http://aanirfan.blogspot.fr/2014/09/vote-fraud-in-scottish-referendum.html

Hi Araucaria, we should all do it the French way which seems almost infallible.

Stan

[araucaria]

The vid of the girl placing the votes on piles is not proof, she could merely be correcting a mistake she made and switching them into the correct pile, simple human error. But the vid of the YES X paper on the NO table is clear, and could be the whole pile. Unless of course the vid is doctored. Going to watch again for continuity.
Not if she’s swapping a bunch of votes for just one. Watch how the height of the two piles changes. It’s not rocket science to check yeses and noes, why should she make a mistake? But the problem is that someone should be checking her. The French system is not perfect but to me this is scandalously shoddy vote-counting. We would have had a YES paper and a NO paper that voters would choose between and there would be no room for mistakes, even before double-checking.

The counting system itself is flawed if individuals are left to do it on their own. Here in France we have people working in fours (with the public breathing down their necks) – one to open the envelopes and display any spoilt ballots, another to read out the vote, and two more to note it down, checking with each other at least every fifty votes. That is how it is done even with a two-way choice.

See also: http://aanirfan.blogspot.fr/2014/09/vote-fraud-in-scottish-referendum.html

Hi Araucaria, we should all do it the French way which seems almost infallible.

Stan
Yes Stan, it is a pretty good system, although the quality of the candidates is still not up to scratch :). It actually makes for a rather relaxed atmosphere; since everyone is watching over each other, not suspiciously but helpfully, working in a very orderly, foolproof way with exactly 100 envelopes on the table at any one time. It is more like they are playing a game of cards. So I am genuinely shocked at the muddle in these videos even if it were totally bona fide.

I am equally shocked at the idea of counterfoils combined with lax disposal methods. We receive voting slips in the post with candidates’ manifestoes, and there is a pile in the polling station where you can choose any one of hundreds requiring no inscription of any kind.

I want to emphasize what I was pointing out earlier in the Guardian piece: the yes folks maybe didn’t get their votes counted on the day, but there is potential here for them being identified and their vote counting against them. This is disturbing in the extreme. What possible purpose could counterfoils serve other than such tracing of voters? I want to quote a passage again.

“This adds weight to the conspiracy theory that security around the election documents is very lax, and that the vote-tracing procedure has been used to identify people voting for fringe candidates. Votes can be traced by matching the numbered ballot paper to its similarly numbered counterfoil; the numbered counterfoil also bears the voter's registration number from the electoral register which is hand-written by the Polling Clerk when the ballot paper is issued. As all the ballot papers for each candidate - including fringe candidates such as Sinn Fein, communists, fascists, nationalists, etc. - are bundled together, anyone having access to those documents can speedily trace the name and address of every voter for such candidates if they wish.”
http://www.theguardian.com/notesandq...,-1051,00.html

The ten-point gap makes vote-rigging on the required scale that is pretty mind-boggling for the average citizen. Whether or not it actually took place is only one side of the issue. Another, more wide-ranging aspect is that the British electoral system, as evidenced here, is in itself hugely open to abuse. So, if voter fraud is as rare or as mythical as we are told, then either the fraudsters are not up to their job, or there have already been plenty of rigged elections in the past. Yet in this case, it seems that MI5 was involved. An insider even suggested that this was likely, to ensure ‘fairness’ and out of a ‘concern for the knock-on effect in Northern Ireland’. These two things are contradictory: if you want to avoid this knock-on effect then, rather than policing the procedure, you need to steer the result. But then it would be naïve to expect him, as a former ‘national security’ adviser to Blair, to speak the undiluted truth. The truth of the matter is that the ‘national security’ risk was the referendum itself. MI5 – hardly a bunch of incompetents – can be trusted to have done whatever it took to achieve that end. Given that the yes camp was doing a lot better than was perhaps anticipated, ‘whatever it took’ would have amounted to quite a lot as well.


MI5 spies told: stay out of referendum
Paul Hutcheon
Investigations Editor
Sunday 9 June 2013

A senior Nationalist has written to the head of the UK's Security Service and asked for an assurance that MI5 spies will not interfere in the independence referendum.

Margo MacDonald MSP, who says she believes there are undercover agents operating in the SNP, told MI5 chief Andrew Parker that his staff should only be used to thwart criminal and terrorist acts, rather than engage in dirty tricks against those who support Scottish independence.

A Home Office spokesman declined to comment on the letter.

The purpose of MI5 is to protect the UK "against threats to national security", a form of words that could be interpreted as resisting the break-up of Britain. Some Nationalists have long believed the SNP was infiltrated in the 1970s by agents worried booming North Sea oil revenues could lead to independence.

MacDonald, a former deputy leader of the SNP and now an independent MSP, believes MI5 was active during the constitutional debate in this period and wants a commitment that such activity has ceased.

In a letter to MI5's director general, MacDonald wrote: "I will be obliged if you can give me an assurance that UK Security Services will not be used in any respect in the lead-up to the Scottish referendum on sovereignty, unless, of course, the Scottish police have sufficient evidence to justify normal responses to potentially overtly criminal acts.

"I do understand that the Security Services are vital to all the countries and regions of the British Isles and the potential for law-breaking may be heightened during the forthcoming campaign.

"As action on the Security Services' part is calculated to keep communities safe and aid cohesion, I would welcome an assurance from you that this will continue, and that no other consideration will inform your Department's work."

Speaking to the Sunday Herald, MacDonald said the recent comments of former chancellor Denis Healey, who said the Labour Government of the 1970s had underplayed the value of oil revenues, underlined her concerns. She said: "The influence of the security services was insidious. If the opportunity came up to depress the self-confidence of Scots, then the opportunity was taken."

Asked if she believed the SNP and the wider Yes movement was currently infiltrated, she said: "Of course the security services have people in the SNP."

Crispin Black, a former intelligence adviser to ex-prime minister Tony Blair and the Joint Intelligence Committee, said he believed MI5 would monitor the independence debate: "My guess is that MI5 would have the referendum on its radar, primarily to ensure its fairness. There's definitely a national security angle to Scottish independence that the security services would be aware of, but my sense is that they would be stopping dirty tricks, rather than trying to initiate them."

He added that MI5 would have a concern about the knock-on effect of independence on Northern Ireland.

A spokesman for the Scottish Government declined to comment.

At the Home Office, which handles enquiries about the Security Service, a spokesperson said the department would not comment on private correspondence. [my emphasis]
http://www.heraldscotland.com/politics/referendum-news/mi5-spies-told-stay-out-of-referendum.21143916

[aranuk]

Another thing I was thinking was this: if Alex Salmond as first minister of Scotland and Nichola Sturgeon who surely must have had all the data available in recent elections when the SNP were elected as the biggest Party according to seats they must have figured a YES vote would be triumphant. What went wrong? The strange thing about the recent polls is that they were supposed to be taken from a random sample of the population. I live in Leith which is the port district of Edinburgh. In my street there are 14 houses of varying sizes. They range from some valued at 120K to 450k which I would say is a random sample of the population. In my street there are 10 YES posters on windows and only one NO. There are many streets where this is the case and many with Scottish flags outside the windows. You would think Alex Salmond and Nichola Sturgeon would have been sure of their timing having at hand all the figures they needed to help them decide for the timing of the referendum. Another thing, I am sure that the woman fiddling the count with papers going in wrong piles was not a solitary act. She most likely was the only one exposed and there could have been many many more agents doing the same. I don't know about any other areas but in Edinburgh I was shocked to see the result. That result was not evident by the amount of YES posters on a huge number of windows. I have heard from an insider that this matter is not finished and that there might be a backlash of having a recount or another referendum which will be more organised. Hopefully one which is similar to the French way of doing things.

Stan

[greybeard]

Hi aranuk
exactly the same in Inverness.
Yes posters everywhere not many no.
The yes campaign well organised here---their publications more interesting.
I dont know anyone who voted no.
Whatever way you look at it an enormous amount of people voted yes---this is discounted by some of the media---they suggest the yes campaign crumbled- and the no vote won by a large margin, that is not true.
My son who was going to vote no changed his mind for the same reason Andy Murray did--- a string of negatives about what would go wrong for Scotland following a yes vote. On the contrary the yes campaign was full of positivity--uplifting.

Chris

[aranuk]

I watched a snippet of a BBC programme tonight about the Scottish referendum. Now the "so called unbiased" BBC brings on three University Professors explaining in clear words the absurdity Cameron and Darling spoke regarding an Independent Scotland using the Pound. They all said in so many words that preventing Scotland using the pound was an absurdity. They both (Cameron & Darling) spoke as if the Pound was an English currency ONLY when in fact it belongs to the four nations in UK. Imagine USA preventing any foreign country using the US dollar. In fact most of the trouble and wars they have been engaging in for the last 13 years were because the countries like Libya, Iran, Iraq were NOT using the petro dollar. It was a real scam and false claim Cameron and Darling used to scare the undecided voters. It friggin worked unfortunately. But the point I am trying to make here is that the BB ****ing C were not presenting these Professors before the vote on Thursday only now are they being very unbiased after the NO vote carried. The Media did its job for sure for its masters the bankers and the Industrial complex.

Stan