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Violet
19th September 2014, 09:00
Antimony is known to have been used as a cosmetic as early as the ancient Egyptians and in the Middle East up until today it is used for both eye health (as prescribed by the islamic prophet) and cosmetically by women.

At least, that's what many women think when they snap a kohl bargain at the market. Recent research (will look up paper later) shows that those kohl tubes are lead-polluted which might explain for some eye diseases in the area.

In Western science antimony is labelled poisonous. This is the podcast transcript for antimony from Chemistry in its element:


Many wars have been fought over territory, some over pride or love or money. But in the 1600s a long and bitter war was waged over antimony.

What, you might ask, is there to fight about in this apparently unremarkable element, a soft, greyish metal that doesn't even conduct electricity well enough to qualify as a true metal? It has its uses, but they are mundane: as an alloy component of battery electrodes and of pewter, and as a flame retardant.

But at the heart of the Antimony War, which raged in France and Germany throughout much of the seventeenth century, was a more unlikely use of antimony. Some doctors of that age believed that it was a vital ingredient in medicine. The advocates and opponents of this point of view didn't actually take up arms: they fought with pen in hand, sometimes denouncing one another in terms far more vitriolic than we'll find in the academic literature today.

It's very curious that the subject of this dispute should be antimony, because this element is actually rather toxic, causing liver damage in large enough doses. But pharmaceutical uses of antimony have a long history. In the ancient world it was known primarily in the form of its black sulphide ore, called stibnite, which the Greek physician Dioscorides recommended for skin complaints in the first century AD. The Egyptians, meanwhile, used stibnite as a cosmetic, applying it as a form of mascara. They called it kuhl, meaning 'eye-paint', and to the later Islamic alchemical physicians this became al-kohl. From its original meaning of powdered stibnite, this term came to designate any powder, and then a potent extract of any substance. In the early sixteenth century the Swiss alchemical physician Paracelsus called a distilled extract of wine alcool vini, from where we get the modern word alcohol: a long and strange road from eye make-up to intoxicating liquor.

Paracelsus was particularly fond of antimony compounds as medicines. After his death, Paracelsus's chemical medicine was championed by many doctors in Europe, especially in France, and some of these made antimony their most prized remedy. One, a German salt-maker who wrote under the false persona of a fifteenth-century monk called Basil Valentine, published an entire book advertising antimony remedies in 1604 called The Triumphal Chariot of Antimony. Valentine admitted that antimony was poisonous - in fact he offered an apocryphal explanation for the name, saying that it derives from anti-monachos, meaning 'anti-monk' in Latin, because he once unintentionally poisoned several of his fellow monks by adding it secretly to their food in an attempt to improve their health. But he claimed that alchemy could be used to free the metal of its toxic effects and make it "a most salutary Medicine".

The Paracelsian chemical physicians were opposed by traditionalists who preferred the medical theories of the ancient doctors like Hippocrates, based on the idea that our health is controlled by a balance of four humours. This was partly a battle for academic power, but the rival camps were also split along religious and political lines. So there was a lot riding on the struggle, and for a time it crystallized around the medical value of antimony.

The toxicity of antimony can cause vomiting - but to its supporters, this was seen as a good thing. They would administer the salt antimony tartrate as a so-called emetic, a vomit-inducer that was believed to purge the body of other bad substances.

Some doctors continued to prescribe antimony freely after the inconclusive Antimony War, and it has been suggested that a fondness for antimony remedies was what actually killed Mozart in 1791. By the nineteenth century it had become a favourite slow poison for murderers eager to conceal their crimes - a chemical villain almost as notorious as lead.

Chris Smith

But would Mozart have been the maestro that he was without the help of Antimony? Well I guess we will never know. Thank you very much to science writer and author Phil Ball.

So, then, antimony, to do or not to do.

scanner
19th September 2014, 09:24
If it has lead in it , then NOT to do .

Violet
19th September 2014, 12:15
Antimony (Sb) and lead (Pb) are two different elements.

The lead was found in the cheap kohl that women use (it's imported from the East) and they don't know it. They think in the worse case it's just a fluid mascara with no health benefit.

Here's the research with abstract:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1567936/

But antimony is a different story.

Carmody
19th September 2014, 12:29
The secret for the making of the stone is the ingredient that is associated with antimony. The ingredient that is largely inseparable from antimony in nature, and that is bismuth.

Lead, Antimony and Bismuth are almost always found together in nature.

This is why the some always thought it was antimony that is the secret, but poisoned themselves. Or that lead was the secret or way, but poisoned themselves. It was the residual levels of bismuth that created the stone.

One can try pure lead, pure antimony or pure bismuth in making the stone and bismuth will produce the stone, while the other two will not.

Tesseract
20th September 2014, 02:02
I've heard it said more than once that people used to get poisoned from Antimony by using newspaper as toilet paper. I'd stay away from it - because of the Sb and the Pb. There will (I strongly suspect) always be a lead impurity unless it is highly refined. If any particular antimony compound that you are looking at is not unbearably expensive, then that means it is not highly refined. Don't trust what is on the label.

Violet
20th September 2014, 06:46
Thanks Tesseract, now I remember that especially for kohl it's not the pure element that's used, but rather the compound SbO3 (antimony trioxide).

Violet
14th November 2014, 17:03
The secret for the making of the stone is the ingredient that is associated with antimony. The ingredient that is largely inseparable from antimony in nature, and that is bismuth.

Lead, Antimony and Bismuth are almost always found together in nature.

This is why the some always thought it was antimony that is the secret, but poisoned themselves. Or that lead was the secret or way, but poisoned themselves. It was the residual levels of bismuth that created the stone.

One can try pure lead, pure antimony or pure bismuth in making the stone and bismuth will produce the stone, while the other two will not.

When I first read this reply, back in September, I was reminded of something so (seemingly) silly that I dared not post it as a reply for fear of it being taken as mockery.

Recently (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?30405-Here-and-Now...What-s-Happening&p=897453&viewfull=1#post897453), I posted something about objects and people announcing themselves by means of other things or events.

When I cook and don't crush the garlic - say three or four cloves - they tend to get lost when there's other vegetables of the same size (cut) involved. However, as soon as I find one, the other cloves are right there too. So, if we take a circle which is the pot and retrieve a garlic clove in the middle, the other ones are very likely to also be in the middle, and not in the outer circle.

And when people or objects precede themselves, they seem to also choose similarity. A fall for a fall, a sound for a similar sound, etc.

I'm thinking aloud, bit off-topic, so consider this a remark in de kantlijn (in the margin), as we say (food for a new thread altogether).

13th Warrior
14th November 2014, 21:06
The secret for the making of the stone is the ingredient that is associated with antimony. The ingredient that is largely inseparable from antimony in nature, and that is bismuth.

Lead, Antimony and Bismuth are almost always found together in nature.

This is why the some always thought it was antimony that is the secret, but poisoned themselves. Or that lead was the secret or way, but poisoned themselves. It was the residual levels of bismuth that created the stone.

One can try pure lead, pure antimony or pure bismuth in making the stone and bismuth will produce the stone, while the other two will not.

When I first read this reply, back in September, I was reminded of something so (seemingly) silly that I dared not post it as a reply for fear of it being taken as mockery.

Recently (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?30405-Here-and-Now...What-s-Happening&p=897453&viewfull=1#post897453), I posted something about objects and people announcing themselves by means of other things or events.

When I cook and don't crush the garlic - say three or four cloves - they tend to get lost when there's other vegetables of the same size (cut) involved. However, as soon as I find one, the other cloves are right there too. So, if we take a circle which is the pot and retrieve a garlic clove in the middle, the other ones are very likely to also be in the middle, and not in the outer circle.

And when people or objects precede themselves, they seem to also choose similarity. A fall for a fall, a sound for a similar sound, etc.

I'm thinking aloud, bit off-topic, so consider this a remark in de kantlijn (in the margin), as we say (food for a new thread altogether).

Like begets like is a basic sympathetic magic principal.

Bob
15th November 2014, 02:05
Hi Violet - seems to me Antimony even in the purest forms would not be compatible with things like the heart.. Adams-Stokes syndrome can be induced by it.