A World in Chaos

[bogeyman]

The world at present is in chaos, with divisions of land into countries brought about by artificial means such as wars, and self created nationalist beliefs reinforced by flags created by ourselves, and statues made with our own hands.

Constantly bombarded with illusions in life ranging from a unbalanced social structure, and those who believe they are superior or better than others, wrapping many lives in unreal events such as movies, and the creation of things know as franchises to create objects that reinforce the movies (which are basically lies), so people are blinded.
We are manipulated by the governments, religious institutions and secret elements of conglomerates to believe what they are telling you and to consume things that you do not need. Psychological tools are being used to reinforce these beliefs and constant repetition of the input again and again makes it a part of a normal thought processes to the point many do not even think about anything outside these belief systems.

The continues consumption which maintains the artificial beliefs of the economic systems which have tokens (money, gold, and other so called precious items) which are there to entrap people into the systems which was created by man, so that even the very basics to survive in a so called modern society cannot be obtain usually without these tokens which we have been constantly taught systemically have a value (which is mainly in your own mind).

Our attentions are diverted also through constant processes of the political systems used, who’s ability to control the masses through various techniques are a constant source of lies and manipulations for individual ends and well as though artificial constructions known as countries.

Wars are a continuous cycle to such a degree many people it is a normal part of the process of advancement, when in fact it sometimes are created by ourselves through differences in ideology, greed, power, egos, and to create stability for self centred interests.

The control is to such a degree that the truth is obscured in a mass of chaos of beliefs, misinformation, greed, falsehoods, lies, and manipulation. Some out here do not want the truth, for the statement “comfortable lies and unpleasant truths” is more close to the way some wish their reality to be. This frame work is so powerfully to some, they are willing to defend it to the very end, as with the lies perpetuated by the former Minister of Propaganda Joseph Goebbels.

[poetbil]

it sounds like you promoting NWO,they say the same thing

[bogeyman]

it sounds like you promoting NWO,they say the same thing

I do not promote anyone's beliefs here, what is required is something outside all of our beliefs and constructions, completely outside the influence of man to put things right here.

[Milneman]

The world at present is in chaos, with divisions of land into countries brought about by artificial means such as wars, and self created nationalist beliefs reinforced by flags created by ourselves, and statues made with our own hands.

Constantly bombarded with illusions in life ranging from a unbalanced social structure, and those who believe they are superior or better than others, wrapping many lives in unreal events such as movies, and the creation of things know as franchises to create objects that reinforce the movies (which are basically lies), so people are blinded.
We are manipulated by the governments, religious institutions and secret elements of conglomerates to believe what they are telling you and to consume things that you do not need. Psychological tools are being used to reinforce these beliefs and constant repetition of the input again and again makes it a part of a normal thought processes to the point many do not even think about anything outside these belief systems.

The continues consumption which maintains the artificial beliefs of the economic systems which have tokens (money, gold, and other so called precious items) which are there to entrap people into the systems which was created by man, so that even the very basics to survive in a so called modern society cannot be obtain usually without these tokens which we have been constantly taught systemically have a value (which is mainly in your own mind).

Our attentions are diverted also through constant processes of the political systems used, who’s ability to control the masses through various techniques are a constant source of lies and manipulations for individual ends and well as though artificial constructions known as countries.

Wars are a continuous cycle to such a degree many people it is a normal part of the process of advancement, when in fact it sometimes are created by ourselves through differences in ideology, greed, power, egos, and to create stability for self centred interests.

The control is to such a degree that the truth is obscured in a mass of chaos of beliefs, misinformation, greed, falsehoods, lies, and manipulation. Some out here do not want the truth, for the statement “comfortable lies and unpleasant truths” is more close to the way some wish their reality to be. This frame work is so powerfully to some, they are willing to defend it to the very end, as with the lies perpetuated by the former Minister of Propaganda Joseph Goebbels.

Well that was up lifting.

Now what?

Maybe the imperfections make it a better universe. If it was all sunshines and sprinkles and cotton candy and unicorns it'd be pretty dull.

Maybe it's more about the process than it is the destination, in which case every thing you described is an opportunity for personal change.

But I didn't see you point any of that out.

Instead, you lowered a camera into the hole in the outhouse and pointed out to everyone that there's a lot of sh*t down there.

*golf clap* ;)

[Omni]

Planets like earth are the hells of the universe due to mankind's undeveloped nature. But there are some good things to it too... We have a bright future. We just have some dark times to get through, and eventually we will be welcomed into the universal/galactic community. After that happens, things like severe depression will basically no longer exist after some time. The illusions that have such big hold on us now will fade with time(with global first contact or not with most). Perhaps eventually nobody will want to incarnate in the bloodline families that have betrayed humanity once light has been shed on their actions... I know I'm capable of forgiveness but it's not a given. A lot of perpetrators do these things because they feel there is no penalty, and they have no loyalty to the human race as a whole(along with no morals). They assume forgiveness perhaps. In that case I cannot go without wanting a penalty for people who have betrayed mankind severely. Or people who have committed massive injustices...





Maybe the imperfections make it a better universe. If it was all sunshines and sprinkles and cotton candy and unicorns it'd be pretty dull.

In that case they perhaps wouldn't be "imperfections". I can see this point of view and agree with it in ways. But some things are egregious and should not be done or allowed and only make the universe better for psychopaths.

[Milneman]

Egregious by who's definition or standard?

(I'm smiling because we are mostly agreeing for a change, and it seems to be a rather pleasant experience!)

:P ;)

[Omni]

Egregious by who's definition or standard?

(I'm smiling because we are mostly agreeing for a change, and it seems to be a rather pleasant experience!)

:P ;)
Things like molestation, slavery, rape, negation of one's free will via technological control, negative soulular programming, negative genetic programming, not allowing one's soul to shine through into their consciousness(which can happen technologically),... There are a certain finite amount of things I think we should work to eliminate from happening on our world.

[Milneman]

Not dampening that these things are in fact horrendous evils.

But by who's standards are they "horrendous"?

And if we categorically state they are "horrendous" do we then, by the nature of our process, forced to look at the problem that then materializes: the other end of the spectrum might be open for editing as well, namely "horrendous" goods?

Put it this way (and I am not condoning, I'm arguing in a friendly way. ;))

Molestation is good to the molester, is it not?
Slavery is good for the enslaver, isn't it?
Rape is good for the rapist, right?

I won't comment on the other examples because we (I think) probably should simply agree to disagree on those points if we want to engage in meaningful dialogue.

I'm not condoning those behaviours. I'm saying that if one wants to impose the idea of good, one better be able to default to a universal standard that, I suspect, most people choose to not be cognitively aware of because it gets in the way of what one "really" wants.

And, in one possible world, it is possible that the amount of evil exists as a balance for the amount of good that in turn exists.

The problem of evil isn't a good enough excuse to rule out the problem of good. ;)

[joeecho]

Maybe the imperfections make it a better universe. If it was all sunshines and sprinkles and cotton candy and unicorns it'd be pretty dull.


It's perfectly imperfect which is another way of saying it's a shadow of perfection. It's the way its always been so it seems that it is perfectly the same (as it ever was). It always goes from A to B to C.... There is never a global rip in the continuum to question it authenticity on a grand scale..

If it was any DIFFERENT then more people would question if it was really real or not really real.

In a way, it is "all sunshines and sprinkles and cotton candy and unicorns", just a different version....

Heaven is Hell, Hell is Heaven (As above, so below).

[Omni]

Molestation is good to the molester, is it not?
Slavery is good for the enslaver, isn't it?
Rape is good for the rapist, right?
All of them have very impacting negative psychological effects. That is why they can be figured as something to not let happen or 'bad'.

Also doing some of these acts is probably not good for the soul of the person doing it. And I would bet some of them have inside them remorse if they have any semblance of a conscience.

Safe to say I can call those things 'negative' quite universally due to their negative effects on the people affected by it.

[Milneman]

Hypothetically!

Would you agree that the same kind of energy could be found, to a lesser degree, on another planet in an alternative forum called Project Lavalon?

And if that kind of energy could be found in an alternative forum called Project Lavalon, what kind of post would be the best way to expunge that energy to the greatest amount of people susceptible to that kind of energy spread?:p

[Agape]

Not dampening that these things are in fact horrendous evils.

But by who's standards are they "horrendous"?

And if we categorically state they are "horrendous" do we then, by the nature of our process, forced to look at the problem that then materializes: the other end of the spectrum might be open for editing as well, namely "horrendous" goods?

Put it this way (and I am not condoning, I'm arguing in a friendly way. ;))

Molestation is good to the molester, is it not?
Slavery is good for the enslaver, isn't it?
Rape is good for the rapist, right?

I won't comment on the other examples because we (I think) probably should simply agree to disagree on those points if we want to engage in meaningful dialogue.

I'm not condoning those behaviours. I'm saying that if one wants to impose the idea of good, one better be able to default to a universal standard that, I suspect, most people choose to not be cognitively aware of because it gets in the way of what one "really" wants.

And, in one possible world, it is possible that the amount of evil exists as a balance for the amount of good that in turn exists.

The problem of evil isn't a good enough excuse to rule out the problem of good. ;)




I think I would strongly object to this . There are exceptions of course ..

but if you think that 'rape is so good for the rapist'

or 'murder so good for murderer '

then our prisons and similar institutions would have to be one of the happiest places on Earth, besides being also good for the prison guards and any sadistic authority who enjoys incarcerating people for good .

Yes they all may 'think of themselves ' being good and smart yet it does not make them good or super-smart .

What you're caught in right now looks like powerful trap of duality . :cantina:


The thing is .. people who commit evil are seldom happy people .. they're mostly , especially in cases of brutal violence , badly troubled , mentally and physically hurt , abused , manipulated by some kind of ideology .. or simply , ill individuals ..
who do not feel remorse when they pull leg out of another beings body because they think , it's normal and ok to do .

I call it 'trap of duality' because among many advanced philosophers who arrived at similar point as you do and convinced of the logical loop being able to answer/address just about any problem in the Universe ,
they engaged in life long battle for their logic , sorting nothing at the end .

If there's GOOD .. I believe .. it has to be good for everyone . No , not everyone will understand how good it is for them ,
young kid will cry if you take him/her to surgery room to save their life , they will feel hurt but it does not really equal the trauma of being raped and molested .


People can be intelligent and perverts at the same time ... it 's not where mankind descended from or where it should head ..

even if you think it's plausible option.


:angel:

[ulli]

There are no excuses for someone who commits evil acts, but there are explanations.

To me evil is ignorance.
It's as if evil acts are committed by people who lack a proper sense of time...
And a sense of its flow.

To understand time means to understand consequence. Con-sequence....

This I cannot happen in a purely instinctive person,
and even a feeling person may not be quite able to grasp time flow.

It can only be done via the mind, and a careful weighing of options.

Government laws and religious laws can help a society to organize itself,
but what if there are endless contradictions between the different cultural laws?

It's ok as long as people remain in countries where there is a consensus to abide by the norm,
but nowadays with millions of people being relocated in foreign cultures there have to be clashes
and confusion.

Only in one's carefully conducted search for a higher personal morality and standard
can an individual extricate themselves from committing evil acts.

Maybe the Golden Rule might be a start.

[Milneman]

Ok so setting aside evil acts for a moment, let's consider the op and how helpful it is in creating a positive dialogue for change.

NP0mQeLWCCo

[Agape]

There may be a reason why a 'dialogue' between two awakened individuals is effectively impossible ..since both know the same reasons and so they fall silent.

There are others though who feel awakened , entitled and excited ..about their monologues leading to prospective world change .. and engaging others in their monologues for world improvement , is a call of duty for them .

So what I think is .. real dialogue .. between any two individuals is still rare , and knowing it .. people create all sorts of 'social occasions' to make such thing possible.

Example : try to engage your PM in dialogue about positive world change . How much would it cost in international currency , i/e. how many world banks would have to be plundered so that some people feel more or less 'equal' to who you are .


:biggrin:

[Milneman]

Ergo, you have to want to dialogue meaningfully.

Would you consider the OP an invitation to meaningful dialogue?

[Agape]

Ergo, you have to want to dialogue meaningfully.

Would you consider the OP an invitation to meaningful dialogue?

In my humble but honest view and experience ... internet forums seldom serve the purpose or even allow an option of cultured dialogue between individuals since equal grounds can't be meaningfully established with regards to intents, qualifications and level of trust between individuals involved .

It's a 'virtual training centre' in my opinion , where people can train and challenge their communication skills free of charge .

The fact of not knowing who is your 'opponent' in the debate , questions are seldom addressed effectively to the correct person engaged , with socially acceptable attitude thus extending the information field to multilayered structure of possibilities ,

where casual 2-2 dialogue is seen as 'excessive' pattern , disturbing the desired , multi-organisational choice fitting the needs of collective engagement .




http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chaos_theory


Chaos theory is a field of study in mathematics, with applications in several disciplines including meteorology, sociology, physics, engineering, economics, biology, and philosophy. Chaos theory studies the behavior of dynamical systems that are highly sensitive to initial conditions—a response popularly referred to as the butterfly effect. Small differences in initial conditions (such as those due to rounding errors in numerical computation) yield widely diverging outcomes for such dynamical systems, rendering long-term prediction impossible in general.[1] This happens even though these systems are deterministic, meaning that their future behavior is fully determined by their initial conditions, with no random elements involved.[2] In other words, the deterministic nature of these systems does not make them predictable.[3][4] This behavior is known as deterministic chaos, or simply chaos. The theory was summarized by Edward Lorenz as follows:[5]

Chaos: When the present determines the future, but the approximate present does not approximately determine the future.

Chaotic behavior can be observed in many natural systems, such as weather and climate.[6][7] This behavior can be studied through analysis of a chaotic mathematical model, or through analytical techniques such as recurrence plots and Poincaré maps.


Forums may be good place to study chaos theory .

[Milneman]

Well that was a constructive way of not answering the question.

BmjHT5GpAYQ

[Agape]

It was either Lao'tze or other wise man who said that ''Enlightened man is one who tidied his house and organised his own life'' .

''When there's peace in the family , there's peace in the village .
When there's peace in the village there can be peace in the nation ,
and if there's peace in the nation there can be peace in the world '' .

In other words , even the greatest peace starts with you ..

Chaos in natural state of things ... and that is Tao .

Tao is mystery . Life is mystery .. it emerges from ocean of mysteries of Space and returns back to it , and in between .. it can be less or more organised .


Anger leads to disappointment and disappointment leads to anger . That's how everyone can be trapped in endless illusion .

The step to better answers starts with taming ones own anger , frustration and disillusionment , with own self or others ,
and looking out for what are the qualities to be offered .


:pray:

[aheb]

This may sound smartarse but, if somebody gives me anger and I don't accept it, then that anger has no place to grow. I can do this sometimes on a personal one to one level, but much harder to do on a national level.
One example I remember quite clearly was when I was eating a vegetarian sausage for lunch and a work colleague said it shouldn't be called a sausage as it had no meat in it LOL. So I said if he felt that strongly about it that he should write to the manufacturer. He then said again that it shouldn't be called a sausage and that surely I could see this. I said I totally agree with you, but I didn't call it a sausage and I don't really care that much what name is given to it.

[Agape]

This may sound smartarse but, if somebody gives me anger and I don't accept it, then that anger has no place to grow. I can do this sometimes on a personal one to one level, but much harder to do on a national level.
One example I remember quite clearly was when I was eating a vegetarian sausage for lunch and a work colleague said it shouldn't be called a sausage as it had no meat in it LOL. So I said if he felt that strongly about it that he should write to the manufacturer. He then said again that it shouldn't be called a sausage and that surely I could see this. I said I totally agree with you, but I didn't call it a sausage and I don't really care that much what name is given to it.

Every argument has its own value . If there was no 'point' in it , there would be no argument ;)

I remember how I refused to eat soya salami ( or whatever was it made from ) because I thought it's odd that people make vegetarian salami to remind them of the 'real thing' . It's a nonsense of course but there's a point in it .

It's easy to get perky about food . Commenting on what the other eats , especially while he still eats is less than polite in my opinion .
If I see someone eating , I tend to back off .. because it reminds me the poor dear has to be hungry in the first place .

Unfortunately , in our spoiled western civilisation people tend to forget how bad it can be to feel hungry , and how good it can be , too.

;)