Why Teal Scott/Swan and the Whole Spiritual Movement is Dangerous! (Video)

[Mu2143]

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[ExomatrixTV]

What is 'New Age' anyway ?

it's people taking responsibility for their own lives, not blaming others for their problems.
it's people who deliberately decide to learn and grow.
it's people who don't have to be right, except for themselves.
it's people seeing problems as lessons, perhaps in a long series of lives and lessons.
it's people who believe we are what we think we are, and can change ourselves by changing our thinking.
it's people who feel they can change the world by changing themselves, not by trying to change others.
it's people who search for strength from the universe by going inside themselves.
it's people that recognize that love doesn't have to have conditions attached.
it's people knowing and loving themselves in order to better know and love others.
it's people who see others as not better nor less but rather different than themselves, yet part of the same whole.
it's people that choose their own path rather than follow dogma.
it's people honoring your right to your own path, not theirs.
it's people who realize that now is all we have, since yesterday is just a thought and so is tomorrow.
it's people interested in owning themselves rather than things.
it's people who see joy in life rather than pain, having experienced enough pain already.
it's people curious about extra sensory perception and all it implies.
it's people in all walks of life, from business persons to flower essence healers, psychologists to UFO investigators.

New Age is not a religion with a hierarchy of priests and rituals , seeking converts, though some new-agers choose some ritual.
New Age is not often gloom-and-doomers, though many are concerned about ecology, the economy and other forces that affect our world.
New Age is not a movement based on guilt, anger, fear, or hurt, it is a journey toward the love that is our prime creator.
New Age is not allegiance to one master; it is learning from many masters in the quest for the oneness of prime creator [all that is].
New Age could not become a cult because of what is said above.
New Age is not just humans doing, it is humans being.

[Sabrina]

Think its rather a sweeping statement to say the whole spiritual movement is so dangerous. Really? What comes through to me is that we all have to use our own discernment and gut reaction about things, and go with what resonates, and listen to the loud signs we get if something doesnt resonate. This includes everything surely - including items and high profile people on this forum (Charles if you remember him being one example), politics, the truth and green and occupy movements, spiritual gurus with too much of an ego slipping out etc. etc. Perhaps its part of peoples life lessons to come up against these things and learn that the people they originally put on pedestals are not demi gods and are flawed. Dont put anyone on a pedestal and trust your own inner powers.

It sounds as though the woman interviewed had a few question marks in her head that all wasnt right. The interviewer didnt seem to empower her to develop her instincts in the future or notice this. Only listened to the first video but seemed a bit too much fear and too little empowerment of the interviewee. Ive not resonated with Teal much before, but if you are going to slate her, come up with some empowering message as to how to approach things in the future.

(got no apostrophes on this keyboard :))...

[Mu2143]

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[Lifebringer]

Sheesh, who are these people? What movement? I thought we were meditating for higher frequency vibration for re-connect to higher self? Don't know about new age spiritual movements that cast labels. Now I know why Tibetans go to the hills for meditation and prayer. The lower neanderthalic thought processes are lower below on the ground, surrounded by suspicious minds and misconceptual evil intent and deceit. I think of the little fish in Finding Nemo, that used to say: "Find a happy place, find a happy place." LOL, It's like an evil drama of twists and turns and plots. Who wrote this play?

[MorningFox]

'The whole spiritual movement is dangerous'

Hahaha ;)

In the politest choice of words.... go away. :hand:

[transiten]

Maybe this fits in here?

MarkM from Divinecosmos:

I would suggest that we keep in mind the idea (an idea to try on for size) that the cabal may have manifested simply as a function of the sum total of Mankind's abrogation of taking full responsibility for her shadow issues.

As any given individual has unresolved issues, dark corners and areas of pain/fear which have yet to be fully plumbed and brought to the light, so do we as a whole.

With an individual person, these unowned and dark areas may manifest as illness or chaotic and incoherent conditions, simply because they have not been brought under the umbrella of intelligent and responsive loving care and ministration.

It could be that the phenomenon known as the cabal exists solely as a function of our collective state of missing the opportunity to have all inclusive love for each other, missing the opportunity to let intelligent and fully aware love to hold the fort.

I for one don't believe that we in our planetary orb of influence are subject to any form of victimization other than that which is self created, perhaps through letting negative influence take over from the point at which we stop being coherent and responsible.

Last edited by MarkM; 09-21-2014 at 05:11 PM.

[Mu2143]

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[Skyhaven]

Edit: on second thought, I don't want to respond here at all.

[MorningFox]

'The whole spiritual movement is dangerous'

Hahaha ;)

In the politest choice of words.... go away. :hand:

This information is needed for people who needed it hear this warning
not for does who think this is not true if you don't like the information why reply to this post?
You can always start a post with the title 'The whole spiritual movement is Not dangerous'?

We're only allowed to post in threads if we agree completely?

[Mu2143]

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[sheme]

Dear Mu2143 it is a frequency thing -you vibrate in a certain way, and different things appear off key to your individual vibration, for me personally Teal Swan speaks a truth I instinctively recognise as truth because she matches my personal vibration.
It is as simple as this, we all stand around the circle of life with a slightly different perspective, no one is better or worse than anyone else- we all take what we need from where ever we have to -depending where we are at that moment.

[MorningFox]

No ,but could you explain why you think The whole spiritual movement
is not dangerous ? Because you disagreed without any reason
and people want to know why?


It's the most vague, most ridiculous statement I've read on here, probably ever... and that's saying a lot. The term 'spirituality' is as vague as it's gets, and can cover a wealth of interpretations. However, 'spirituality', finding 'spirituality', practicing 'spirituality' has helped millions upon millions of people improve their lives in millions upon millions of positive and fulfilling ways.

To say 'it' is *all* dangerous is utterly ridiculous. The words of a half-wit.

[onawah]

May be time to update and add on to your "ignore" list, MF... :lol:

[donk]

No ,but could you explain why you think The whole spiritual movement
is not dangerous ? Because you disagreed without any reason
and people want to know why?


It's the most vague, most ridiculous statement I've read on here, probably ever... and that's saying a lot. The term 'spirituality' is as vague as it's gets, and can cover a wealth of interpretations. However, 'spirituality', finding 'spirituality', practicing 'spirituality' has helped millions upon millions of people improve their lives in millions upon millions of positive and fulfilling ways.

To say 'it' is *all* dangerous is utterly ridiculous. The words of a half-wit.

Maybe the question was poorly worded, and you could comment in a way that does not cause argument, rather generates discussion? Perhaps maybe even watch the videos and comment to that, considering that woudl be the context of the thread...and help take away some the most "vague" you have ever seen?

I'm not even through the first one, but the people talking are warning of the dangers of BELIEF SYSTEMS, and how it is possible to be "possessed" by them. Perhaps you can detach from yours long enough to listen to these women share their experience? Or since you seem to know everything already...you can add some more contempt and snark and distract the conversation?

I may be a "half-wit", but I believe there is possible danger in all that falls under the teachings of "spirituality" these days. I appreciate knowing what is ridiculous to you...I find a lot of the "common knowledge" and respected teaching the same around here...but don't think anyone's a "half-wit" just cuz they believe it.

[PurpleLama]

http://www.jessicamystic.com/uploads/1/4/8/5/14856272/my_conversation_with_cameron_about_teal.docx

[Wind]

Ugh, I didn't want to respond here at first, but that gal Jessica Schab is known for spreading her hatred all over the internet about good people. I don't know what's her issue, but she's operating from a dark place. When it comes to Teal, I don't follow her as I used to. If something doesn't seem good to you, just disregard it. Drama drama, why do we love it so much? I don't.

[Naniu]

anything is dangerous if it is abused.

teal was abused

her abuse manifested in wanting attention and manifesting it as a healing program

what is the cause ?

that is the culpret

what caused the culpret to manifest such a reaction to a person such as teal ?

the culpret that harmed the culpret and so on and so forth

the Spiritual movement is a good one and like anything has beautiful imperfections that remind us of what we are not

the good note is to take note and develop our 6th sense .. do not vilify teal , she is learning now too to let go of her hate and retribution which has now come full circle.

she will know that her ways were wrong .. thats her karma , not ours

Naniu

[delfine]

It´s quite ironic that Jessica Schab is so critical of Teal, to the point of wanting to stop her, when she (Jessica) has been guilty of the exact same things;
1) Presenting herself as a some kind of new-age saviour.
2) Being narcissistic and flirtatious.
3) Being intolerant of critique and only accepting of total sycophants.

As far as I remember Jessica was absolutely desperate to get accepted into the project Camelot, she actually broke down and began sobbing (the old trick of crying to get your way?), and Kerry was very reluctant to interview her, because she thought she looked like a "Valley girl". Maybe Kerry should have sticked with her first impression, because now Jessica is retracting her claim to fame; being a crystal child.
In the following years I noted that Jessica was very fond of attention herself, telling her devoted followers on her forum, that she had become a celebrity.
She is every bit as narcissistic as the people she is now accusing. now suddenly ALL spiritual guides and motivational speakers are suspect, being only in it for the money, the only exception is of course Jessica Schab and her dodgy fiancé; Diego, who have a little spiritual counseling business of their own. I mean, come on! :rolleyes:

I remember being a member of her forum back in 2009-10, but the minute I began asking questions and making critical comments, she excluded me. She has absolutely zero tolerance for critique. In that respect Teal is much more allowing. I´ve seen people using the vilest language against her, but still they were allowed to stay.

[delfine]

It´s also interesting to note that Jessica now seems to reject David Icke as being a mere fear-monger, while she some years back saw him as a major torch -bearer. She even made a video with Charlie Veitch (who himself has turned out to be a dubious character) called the hunt for David Icke. Confused much?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gY3-J9_7w3I

In her project Camelot interview she said that after 2012, the world would be "nothing but beauty", and look how things are going now. So her own reliability is not exactly pre-eminent either.

[MorningFox]

I believe there is possible danger in all that falls under the teachings of "spirituality" these days.

ALL?

Have you studied each and every 'spiritual' practice on earth?

Vast over exaggerations are rampant in this thread, that's really the only point I'm making. Speaking in absolutes like that is quite bizarre to me.

[donk]

Well the important lesson that even the sweetest, smartest-seeming, most charming and endearing people are not always exactly as seem is an important one, despite the messenger. Say what you want about any of the characters involved, the discussion in the first video at least would be good to apply to any one in this realm you think you "know".

[donk]

M

I believe there is possible danger in all that falls under the teachings of "spirituality" these days.

ALL?

Have you studied each and every 'spiritual' practice on earth?

Vast over exaggerations are rampant in this thread, that's really the only point I'm making. Speaking in absolutes like that is quite bizarre to me.

There's a difference between being harmful and potentially dangerous. Yes, to me, I feel it wise to recognize all (would using the word "any" make you less reactionary?) "movements"...and even teachings, "spiritual" or not, can be traps.

"Spiritual" (to me, and my understanding of how the term is used by most) claims an understanding of reality. Any of these--to me--are more potentially dangerous than most teachings. Call me a ridiculous half-wit exaggerator, and give me one you think is not.

I think the ladies in the fist vid explain it pretty well. If that makes me hypocrite-apologist disempowering fear-monger to your eyes, so be it. I think the discussion needs to be had and applied at all "truth" sites.

[Agape]

Every 'spiritual path' , every form of practice , whether modern or ancient , scientific or less has its traps .
If they don't teach first grade students where they can fall from stairs some of them will miss later . If you think there's somewhere , something .. way or an institution that does not involve falls and traps you just know too little to be prepared for life .

Of some you can be informed forwards ( but you may not listen ) , of others you can't be told at all - better for you - unless you actually arrive there where you need to be told , and if you were told forwards you might have never arrived ..

Preaching a doctrine ..or a psychological trend .. that is appealing to group of people .. is not as difficult as sorting each of those peoples individuals lives .


:yo:

[syrwong]

Teal's style is open and rational. Like it or not, correct or wrong, good or bad; whatever you want to evaluate, it is not dangerous. The only dangerous things are the insidious, subliminal messages or lies presented as news, those which brainwash people's minds in an unconscious way.

[ulli]

Dangerous? Danger is in the mind of the beholder.
Just as beauty.

I've learnt a lot about myself throughout my life, and my search, from my own perceptions about spiritual teachers.
As a woman, I felt safer listening to the grandfatherly types than the young egomaniacs who were still using their lower chakras to lure young women followers into their orbits.

So if a guy has an issue with a female who spouts higher truths...what does that tell us about him?
Fear of women becoming empowered? The world needs a bit mor woman power, in order to balance out.
I'm not in favor of Amazonianism. I can understand that fear, in a way.
But, the fact that they need to WARN others...
might that not be masculine protectionism gone wild?

[donk]

A wise man (around here) once advised me that I might consider stopping “giving myself grief”. I took that to heart, even if I am still learning to walk that path…I will, but first…one more sharing which I am sure could cause me plenty:

My comments, particularly toward the first video—were specifically that….they were in regards to the ideas being discussed, by two human beings that I knew absolutely nothing about prior to starting to watch it. I watched it from a place where I tried my best at complete emotional detachment from anything about them—the speakers’ history/faces/voices, my “experience” that included Teal and/or the subjects they were talking about, my ideas about “spirituality”….etc.

I felt compelled to comment, because I believed** there’s value there. If you can get past your emotional attachment to what the original poster decided to call the thread, and the things you KNOW about the speakers (or subjects they speak)…I really thought the things they talked about were really important tools, that there were a lot of great conversation pieces there, some really good ideas that may be valuable to talk about. In my experience (this thread being no exception, maybe even perhaps a good example), they are topics a lot of people seem so uncomfortable with that they can’t even let it go on without pointing out how “disempowering” or “negative” it is to them…and they feel the need to project that on to everyone else…which to me looks a lot like gate keeping.

I just want to make clear that I take as much stock in what jessicamystic or whatever she calls herself as I do in Teal…they have exactly as much integrity to me as anyone else putting themselves out there as spiritual teachers, tell just as many “truths”, and are doing the exact same thing: sharing what they want you to believe that THEY believe. That being said, I was very interested in the girl sharing the experience she wants us to believe she had with Teal. I give her a little bit of the benefit of the doubt, considering Teal seems like she would have a valid lawsuit/slander case if it is the case she is lying (which I have not discounted, I take that possibility into consideration—with her, and everyone…including my own self).

Sure, any experiences you had or perceived with any individual involved is valuable to me, including insults on ideas or beliefs that hold, such as the belief that “there be dragons” in anything any humans call a “spiritual path” or teaching. I am not offended by anyone thinking I am crazy exaggerator to make that statement, I accept the not-so-constructive criticism a gift to take into consideration when posting…so thanks for that. It annoys me though, when that KNOWINGNESS/RIGHTEOUSNESS shuts down conversation, and creates fear in less expressive people to share their truth.

I recognize that we are all talk that this place is any different from anywhere else…but is that really the case? Can we maturely, honestly discuss something that someone we don’t (the messenger) like says without losing the subject (message) to our personal emotional issues?

And then maybe if we can do that…we can unemotionally vet the speakers, and see what their purpose may be, instead of throwing around emotional outbursts and personal opinions about them. Since no one seems to have even listened to the actual conversation, let me state a couple things that I feel can lead to useful data being transmitted from the video:
-the type of “spirituality” they (NOT the OP…the actual people talking) are talking about (light worker/starseed/etc) is every bit as dangerous as ancient religions…old hat to some, I know, but they actually have an intelligent conversation about it, despite them being meany-face stinky-head hypocrites to the negative nelly empowerment people ‘round here/
-in fact, they talk about the “positive police”, which I think is good term they use when speaking on specific chunk of what has gotten labeled the “spirituality” community
-this girl claims to have lived and experienced Teal in a way that is COMPLETELY different from the character Teal as she presents herself on the internets…whether you think she’s a poopy-face for moving on to Teal-worship to Jessicamystic-apologist (or worshiper, if that’s how you experience their presentation), she drops some bombshells that SHOULD get her sued if they are outright lies.
-despite what you think or feel about any of them…the “cult” angle is a trap that is ever-present, the extreme end of the “danger” in any “spiritual” ideas…if we do not allow for the acknowledgement of the possible presence “danger”…that’s the far end worst case result
-I had a lot more, but did not take notes…which I don’t think really matters, because most people (and especially those who post) already have their mind made up…I am just putting what comes to the top of my head, since I don’t expect conversation, we’ve proven time and again we are all talk when it comes to that…if I had to guess, the gatekeepers and distracters will make sure nothing is apparent except maybe proving Schaub is a dumb-dumb hypocrite, people who speak/type in extremes we don’t like are unhinged and nothing they say matters…only the opposite does—the unproven “there is NO danger in some unnamed not-mentioned spiritual teaching”, and that we can learn NOTHING from this whole silly thing—we should be healing the world instead of looking for lessons we could actually apply to ourselves.

**I’ve been told it’s not good to “believe”…but for the life me, I have never KNOWN anything. I am often wrong, about things other people claim to KNOW. I KNOW nothing, am sharing my beliefs, and apologize if they are in conflict with your TRUTHS, which I try my best to always at least consider if not actually respect…and in any case I always try not to judge you for.

DISCLAIMER: A different wise man reminded me that “too much wariness of traps can be a trap, too”. I want to make clear for those who are unfamiliar with donk: not only am I aware of it, I assume it to be a given that it is one of the things I am most conscious of, having fallen into that trap in the extreme. I also was caught in the opposite extreme, the hero-worship cult mentality. Having been through them and working my way toward finding balance after the extreme experiences is one of the most important purposes to me in my posts.

REQUEST: before posting a specific reaction to anything in my posts, kindly reflect and make sure you are not projecting anything on to me…I seem to be a target of a lot of that lately.

With love, in sincerity, looking for truth, hoping to share, donk….and Phil, even

[transiten]

Here's some advice from Marthy Raphaels book Spiritual Vampires; the use and misuse of spiritual power:

Characteritics of Spiritual Vampires

They seek positions of authority such as new age teacher, metaphysical healer, twelve-step sponsor, minister, therapist, priest, cult leader.

They often present themselves as an unchallengeable authority. This means they want you to believe they know better than you what your truth is.

They enjoy having power over people rather than with pple.

They often use humiliation to exercise control over others. At the leader's bidding, the group may have laughs at the expense of an individual member.

They must feel they are in control

They sometimes believe their spiritual teachings are above the law.For example, one teacher I know justified having sex with one of her thirteen-year-old followers for the purpose of initiating him into adulthood.

They sometimes become violent or may use mental force when others don't agree with them.

They often feel unfulfilled and bored when they're in a group where they are not the leader or teacher

They sometimes force followers to participate in rituals against their will saying their individual will must be broken in order for the member to be initiated into their next level of growth.

They sometimes misuse their sexuality to attract followers or their position of authority to persuade followers to angage in sexual acts for spiritual purposes.

Characteristics of Spiritual vampire groups

There's usually a common language spoken in order to determine who is or is not a member of the group. F.ex, in the group called "Light Work" members never acknowledge wrong-doing on their part. If they've made a mistake they claim it is the dark disembodied spirits who have entered them.

High pressure tactics and manipulation are used regularly in order to control members thougths and actions. Sometimes members are even asked to sign a document saying they will comply with a list of "do's" and "don'ts".

Members' spiritual progress is often linked to their successful or unsuccessful recruitment of new members so that every member is compelled to get involved in proselytizing for the group.

Loyalty to the group is empahsized first and foremost-sometimes so much that members give up their families and their entire life savings to the group.

Spiritual vampire groups usually claim to be superior to most other groups and often engage in comparisions in their proselytizing pitch.

These groups are usually founded and managed by domineering pple who presesnt themselves as an unchallengeable authority. Or if they do allow being challenged, the one who challenges is often confronted, embarrassed, or humiliated in front of other group members.

Language is often used to promote isolation from the rest of the world. "Us and them" language implies that the only safe or good place to be is with the group.

Warding off Spiritual Vampires

Trust yourself above everything else. Recognize that you have the entire truth that you need for your life within you. That does not mean you will never ask for help. It simply means that even in the process of asking for help, you know who or what that help should look like.

Discover and do your heart's passion with respect to work Whether or not you're doing what you love fore a living, it's important to discover your purpose and begin offering it to the world in some form. This integration with the rest of the beings on the planet is one of the strongest repellants to spiritual vampires.

Creativity Everyone is gifted with some way in which they express themselves no matter what the medium and no matter whether the world acknowledges the product that is a result of that creativity. When we are creative, we are in relationship with ourselves. This kind of quality time spent with oneself is a very strong antidote to being manipulated by others, namely spiritual vampires.

A good support system or group of friends who generally accept you whether you're emotionally down or up. A few important intimate relationships in which you can share the very core of yourself are crucial.

A solid and unwawering cosmologyCosmology is one's general theory of the cosmos or material universe, it's parts, elements and laws. Another way of saying it is to say it's the way one understands "the way of things" or what the Chinese call call The Tao... And remember, it's okay to doubt and shift world-views as you evolve spiritually.

Questions to Ask When Choosing a Therapist

1 Can the therapist be reached during a crisis?
2 Has the therapist worked with spiritual abuse survivors before?
3 if not, how would the therapist educate himself or herself in order to be effective with you?
4 Do you feel comfortable in his or her office?
5 Does the therapist seem judgemental or critical?
6 Do you feel the therapist wants to rescue you rather than support you in doing your own healing?
7 Does the therapist act as if he or she has all the answers?
8 Does the t get uncomfortable when you discover the truth for yourself without his or her help?
9Does the t ever think sexual contact with clients is ever appropriate?
10 Does the t believe that children ever willingly have sex with adults?
11 What does the t think of touching clients. Do you feel comfortable with his or her views on touching?
12 Does the therapist make good solid eyecontact with you?
13 Can you feel free to get angry with the t?
14 Would you like the t as a friend?
15 Is the t willing to allow all your questions?
16 What does your gut say? After all, your own instincts are what can be trusted. If you are with a good therapist, you will feel respected, valued, heared and understood.

How to Pick the Good Spiritual Workshops and Avoid the Bad Ones

Word of mouth is the best way to find out about good spiritual educational programs. If someone you know had a good experience, you can determine the results by experiencing the changes in your friend and also, by virtue of knowing your friend's tastes etc, you can decide wheter it's for you or not.

A good teacher is not going to foster dependence If the teacher eludes to the idea theat you're with him/her for the long haul, notice this characteristic as a red flag. On the other hand, if the teachers motivation is to present information as an opportunity for you to become free and perhaps even become a teacher yourself, then you know he or she is not interested in creating a dependence.

True learning is a two-way energy flow. If the teacher does not recognize openly what he or she is learning from you or your questions etc, it's a sign he or she is not being totally honest and has some hidden agenda to remian in the guru seat.

If the teacher looks, feels, acts bigger than life, this is a red flag. If the teacher allows you to see their humanness or shadow side, chanses are, they're not interested in your worship, awe and dependency on them.

If the amount of money required to take the workshop is not available to you at the time, recognize that this may be a sign that it's not right for you. Stop and check inside to see if you can see what is not immediately obvious to you with respect to where the red flags are.

Trust your gut at all turns If you feel uneasy and unsure about the way in which the training is going, leave immediately. You're the only one who truly knows what you need trusting your own knowing is your greastest tool in repelling spiritual vampires.

[778 neighbour of some guy]

Lol, holy catfight, I like it;).

[Mu2143]

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[778 neighbour of some guy]

What came up in to my spirit is it could be that does who have done the satanic
ritual abuse have her do exactly what she is doing!

Or maybe she just lives in imagination land and can tell stories with a straight face and cash in on it by convincing the meek and gullible, mostly men probably. I bet Miles Johnston is next in line to interview her, or maybe not next, but she'll get her turn, unfortunately we have to listen to it, there might be some truth here and there in what she says, but so is in everything we say, stitching together a row of oneliners found on forums like this doesn't make one a teacher, it make you a parrot, that what we have here imo, nice feathers but still craps on floor.( and most likely will steal from your wallet too, birds like that like shiny stuff, especially if its yours)

[chocolate]

Donk, I am no wise, and no man, but I wholeheartedly agree with your last post. One thing though -- sometimes threads and posting on them can appear to be hooks for your 'emotional' and 'mental' energy and attention. I have stopped posting almost entirely, except about things I find interesting to share, for exactly this personal reason of mine.

That being said, I find Teal Scot/Swan dangerous in the way that her 'opinion' and words are so intertwined with bits of truth that for younger and more unaware audience/people she delivers 'mind and spirit' poison. She can't reach the soul, that is how the alarms start ringing, but still, the damage is a damage.
And for all who *might* decide to jump on my forum throat, do consider the fact that I have chosen my words carefully. I have absolutely no tolerance left for lies, virtual or otherwise, so my opinion is , for a change, without an attempt to sound acceptable. As it was said, I will be judged in any case, so better make this post worthwhile.

[Paradox22]

I myself am a fan of Teal Swans work and the message which she is trying to get across to the world is to raise your frequency which will in turn raise the frequency of the whole planet.

I came across the PDF document by Cameron myself, then watched an episode of Teals called Shadow House where she mentioned Cameron and how she had difficulty accepting the things she was saying, at the end she found out that Cameron had sent her her favourite cashew ice cream as a thank you because she had had time to think over her experiences there.

This Cameron woman doesn't seem to have a very good filter for discerning truth, after all the Illuminati are actually helping the planet raise its vibration by trying to shove negativity in our faces...it is making us rebel and only go towards enlightenment quicker!

Also, Teal had a traumatic childhood, so I completely expect her to have BPD as a result of this. Spiritual teachers/gurus/messengers are still human and have to deal with negative emotion just like we do.

Spirituality is not to become 'perfect' it is to accept all of ourselves, even our darkness!

Blessings

P.S. My avatar picture is acually by Teal Swan...it is the vibrational frequency of joy

[donk]

Has Teal ever responded to any of this?

Has anyone listened to the videos? Particularly the last one?

In that one, the Cameron girl says straight up what she is doing is criminal, describing moving out of Teal’s as escaping from a cult, and claims she has emails from her—documented evidence to back up what she is saying.

I keep the interviewer in the same category (spiritual teacher/alt media semi-celebrity) as Teal herself (albeit nowhere near as popular), keeping in mind they share a similar stage. I resonate with the character the Cam portrays, as I was there, upset (she admits she was hurt and angered and acknowledges she probably sounds that way) that a guru she put her trust in was not only not what was expected, but apparently completely different, the antithesis of what they taught/preached.

This experience lead her to want to share the dangers. Disempowering as this information may sound, there is a clear division amongst spiritual believers, in the broadest sense.

Assuming we all that “spiritual” refers to understanding of reality/existence…I see that divide to be where a human thinking on it put personal responsibility, sort of a scale


Reality is created externally outside of our control.......................own personal responsibility ...................................................We create our entire reality
<-------------------------------------------------------------------------------X--------------------------------------------------------------->

My interpretation of the ladies’ conversation is they are warning of the dangers of the cult Cam claims direct experience with where the “spiritual” teaching is on the far right of the scale where it pushes the “blame the victim” mentality that tends to guilt people into staying with the savior/teachings that gives them the “opium of hope”. She (claims to) have evidence to back it up. The Jessica girl claims to have walked the path from buying into mentality identical to Teal and the “dangerous spiritual teaching” and describes how she learned and grew past it.

Whether or not you believe them (and if you are still in the air, it would behoove you to look to see if they posted the emails they mention and especially watch and study more of Teal’s work and about her), that’s on the individuals in the audience. I am commenting not because of the characters involved, no judgment or fear of Teal…rather it is pointing out a pattern, that may be old hat to a lot of us but is a trap I fell into when I came across “spiritual teachings”, and I think there is a lot to be learned from looking at this perspective.

[DarMar]

Well.. i do not listen to Teal too much, I'm subscribed to her channel, and sometimes i do click.
The videos I had clicked and watched are great stuff, i noticed while listening to her that she can give energy. That vampires does not do.
Also she does orient on self-grow, i find that people doing that kinda videos are more for them than for rest of watchers. And that is good.

As we live in times we live, i do not find only spiritual movement dangerous but whole science, religion and all of those kind.
Actually any belief is danger as long it is belief and not experience and knowledge.

This could be long debate.. but i don't see that profit matches invested time..
And this title is pretty conclusive, like she is already spread out danger to us innocent human beings!

it is meh for me....
it is easy to blame others... seems too easy...

[donk]

This could be long debate.. but i don't see that profit matches invested time..


If the "debate" is not worth the energy, then why "contribute" to it?


And this title is pretty conclusive, like she is already spread out danger to us innocent human beings!

So is the title to a lot of threads, like ones on Hitler's "greatest story". You know what I do when a sweeping generalization in a thread title bothers me? I look at the information presented and try to determine why the poster called it that and feels that way, rather than post my praise or condemnation of the subject that I apparently "already know".

...........but that's just me

[donk]

I found this, a wonderful, empowering talk…I agree with nearly all of it**, and think some of the points are among the most important spiritual teachings…and present it for consideration, perhaps those that resonate with Teal can apply her teachings here to the OP and this discussion?

YUfEA4yVMMk

**I don’t know how she came to the understanding that cancer is “always the illness of unfinished business”…while I can’t necessarily disagree, cuz I really don’t know, I also don’t really agree at the moment.

[778 neighbour of some guy]

cancer is “always the illness of unfinished business”…

Or untreated candida, or to much sugar or too much chemicals, or to much GMO,s or to many vaccinations, or parasite poop, or not being able to find cures using the internet, or, or, or, or, or................. or not eating your veggies, or no detoxing, or listening to oncologists ( most of them), or amalgams, or fluoride, lead paint, snorting pasta, grains, soy, milk, processed foods or being in the presence of collapsing world trade centers and inhaling dust or carrying your phone in your bra or on your nuts, or eating microwaved food, drinking from plastic bottles, or not trying cures like hemp oil or sodium bicarbonate or zapping or rife machines or MMS or Nascent iodine or silver or Gerson therapy or B17 or Essiac, blahblahblah.

Maybe listening to Teal to much will prevent you from finding a cure for cancer, in that case she would be the leading cause of unfinished business in your life.

Can I pour you an urn of raw hot chocolate?

[donk]

Now now,my friendly neighborino…don’t be throwing babies out with bath waters…that out of context quote was only meant to show support of all of the rest (of what I would consider potentially dangerous and probably true and practical) information that she presents.

Taking a shot like that is no better than a Teal fan telling us how great she is and mean anyone is to “attack” her or people getting bent by extreme generalizations. I am trying to discuss things without our emotional attachments to the characters.

It does bring up a point though I hoped to bring up: I believe it does have a lot to do with I find the most insidious of “spiritual teachings”, and that’s the extreme to the point of “blame the victim” create-your-own-reality all of existence is YOUR personal responsibility idea…which is what I was trying to describe that divides us (the girls even mention Bashar in video, who I agree with them is a good example).

IF her statement can be interpreted that she believes all cancer is a manifestation of our choices (and similar ideas, where we create everything wrong with ourselves and our world)--and I am not saying I definitely CAN with certainty—then that’s where I find potential “danger” worthy of discussion.

[raregem]

And for all who *might* decide to jump on my forum throat, do consider the fact that I have chosen my words carefully. I have absolutely no tolerance left for lies, virtual or otherwise, so my opinion is , for a change, without an attempt to sound acceptable. As it was said, I will be judged in any case, so better make this post worthwhile.

I resonate with this outlook. I, too, am tired of the manipulations and lies from "honorable" sources. The raregems are intertwined in the responses yet the raregem is what I search for in the muck and mire.

[Camilo]

For that matter, christianity as well as all man-made religions are the real danger to humanity.

[donk]

Especially when they exhibit cult-like behavior...the op was a bunch of videos using "whistle-blower" testimony that teal is not far from it...according to some girl who says she lived with her, as she was being interviewed by a character: accused-of-being narcissistic attention seeking spiritual healer who'd have you believe she walked a path where her views changed over the years.

these two characters present concerns of teal as a "warning" of the danger inherent in spiritual beliefs. They are most obvious in the large religions we have lots of information about. People issuing warnings I would guess would have you believe. It was to provide information about the not so major ones?

How about trying to get on topic:

Is the information they present valid?

Bonus kinda on topic exercise: why do you (the proverbial "you") have an emotional attachment to this discussion?

[Clarity]

I found the interviews interesting and worth watching and worth watching till the end. The last interview has some good comments. I don't know much about Teal Scott so I can't really comment on her, but my impression of Cameron was that she appears honest and authentic.


why do you (the proverbial "you") have an emotional attachment to this discussion?

Whilst listening there were many times that I recognized similar thoughts and feelings that I had during my involvement with the spiritual movement.
In the 1st interview Cameron said she had some doubts but looked around and thought "well all these guys believe this and they're all so much more knowledgeable than me, so it must be right" .......... yep I remember having those thoughts myself. I won't bore you with the details but I spent 3 years being 'spiritual' before I came home one day dumped the books and stopped attending group meetings/workshops. This was after I attended a workshop in which I decided most there were, not just a bit weird, but bordering on insane.... Or maybe it was because I grew tired of people telling me how much they loved me and how our group had such a special bond like family, when inside I was thinking "but you don't even know me..."

Oh well we can't be negative now can we....................

Is the spiritual movement dangerous? ......... I went though this 'spirituality phase' whilst I was/am a happy married mother with acreage and lots of animals to care for - this helps to keeps me grounded and real. I was eventually able to see these people for what they are and just considered it a learning experience. I'm not sure were I would be if I had come across this as my younger insecure, impressionable self looking for direction and love.

Many of the teachings may look and sound positive but when put into practice they become the opposite. For example I use to do things for people, help them out, fundraising, raising orphaned animals. You know if I could I would, but if I was busy I'd say so. Because of these teaching suddenly I'd find myself thinking 'that's good karma' or 'I'm so service to others' 'Haven't done any good deeds for a few days, need to make the 51% for ascension."
I went from doing things for others because I was happy to, could do or wanted to. To having an agenda - it took me a long time to break that thought pattern.

My personal experience left me thinking the the spiritual movement is neither healthy nor positive, and many of the reasons for saying that are in this interview. For a person who is vulnerable then yes I could see way it could be thought of as dangerous.

[BF88]

I enjoy the videos Teal makes they are interesting and she is good at explaining certain concepts, although i do not entirely agree with everything she says as sometimes it is just rehashed 'there is no spoon' rubbish. I would join her cult if she lived near me, if it was only for a laugh (or to sniff her pants!)

[Clarity]

A little of topic I know but .......


Has anyone listened to the videos? Particularly the last one?


I've noticed very often people post or respond without even reading or listening to the attachments. Why??????
Why take the time to give your thoughts and opinions if you don't fully understand what exactly you are responding to.

[giovonni]

I don't know much about Teal Scott so I can't really comment on her, but my impression of Cameron was that she appears honest and authentic.

Oh well we can't be negative now can we....................

here's your chance ... :)



From LipTV

Sean Stone interview with Teal Swan

"Teal Swan shares her experience as a Spiritual Catalyst and survivor of ritual sexual abuse in an uncensored interview that explores mind-control, awareness, and overcoming dark forces. Questions of evil, power, and the hierarchy of souls--if one even exists--plus seeing auras and the ways that clairvoyance are misunderstood and exploited are shared on Buzzsaw, hosted by Sean Stone."


GUEST BIO:
Teal Swan, known to many as ‘The Spiritual Catalyst’ or the ‘Giggling Guide’ was born in
Santa Fe, New Mexico on June 16th 1984. She was born with a range of extrasensory abilities including clairvoyance, clairsentience, clairaudience and claircognizance. Despite her young age, Teal is no stranger to extreme adverse circumstances. During her childhood Teal’s parents (who were both Wilderness Rangers), accepted a job in the Wasatch-Cache National Forest of Utah, unaware of the intensely religious climate of the location. Word of Teal’s unusual abilities got out and were not only frowned upon, but were also feared by many in the local religious community. Teal’s abilities attracted the attention of a family acquaintance who unbeknownst to Teal’s family was struggling with dissociative identity disorder and sociopathy. When Teal was just six years old, the family acquaintance inducted her into a local cult, and Teal was ritualistically and sexually tortured for a period of thirteen years. Teal managed to escape from the cult when she was nineteen and began her process of recovery and transformation. Since her escape, Teal has become an internationally recognized spiritual leader and a powerful new voice in the field of metaphysics. She now travels the world as a spiritual luminary, using her abilities to remind people of the united, energetic nature of this universe and teaching people how to find bliss in the midst of even the most difficult challenges.

In 2012 Teal founded Teal Eye LLC. Along with an accompanying social change corporation called Headway. The aim of both companies is to catalyze positive world change. The companies will achieve this by investing in programs, organizations and products that will revolutionize societal systems in many areas including justice, technology, education, agriculture and health care. Teal’s vision is to enable everyone on earth to live free, joyous and healthy lives and she is determined to make that vision a reality.

Published on Oct 12, 2014


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pvFYcClwxN0

[donk]

Thanks, Gio, but I've seen that one--and just letting you know--as someone who "doesn't resonate" with Teal, that one is even more off-putting than most of her material, to me anyway.

I didn't really find anything in it to endear me to her or her teachings, or see her provide any new insight or information...would you kindly share what you got out of that particular interview? And even better, relate it to this thread? Thanks my friend!

[giovonni]

Thanks, Gio, but I've seen that one--and just letting you know--as someone who "doesn't resonate" with Teal, that one is even more off-putting than most of her material, to me anyway.

I didn't really find anything in it to endear me to her or her teachings, or see her provide any new insight or information...would you kindly share what you got out of that particular interview? And even better, relate it to this thread? Thanks my friend!

She resonates with me just like James Gilliland does ... Phil my Friend ... :)

PS ~ She puts herself out there and i admire that in a human being.

And as far as relating to this thread, i was only offering up an opportunity for Clarity to listen to a most recent interview with Teal.

[donk]

Just like him, eh? Too each, their own, I guess…thanks for the reply, I called you out cuz he’s the only one I DO “resonate” with, and you were the one who introduced to him. Also, I trust your judgment.

So I was surprised, while I can see a similarity in the superficial presentation of their material on various media, and mostly identical views and messages (which I DO almost completely resonate and agree with)…you know something of the “real” James, and this thread (to me, I thought) doing our best to hash out what we can of the “real” Teal.

[giovonni]

Just like him, eh? Too each, their own, I guess…thanks for the reply, I called you out cuz he’s the only one I DO “resonate” with, and you were the one who introduced to him. Also, I trust your judgment.

So I was surprised, while I can see a similarity in the superficial presentation of their material on various media, and mostly identical views and messages (which I DO almost completely resonate and agree with)…you know something of the “real” James, and this thread (to me, I thought) doing our best to hash out what we can of the “real” Teal.

Phi, there's nothing to hash out ...

We are all human beings James, Teal, you and myself included ...

What i have learned most after meeting numerous spiritual so called 'catalyst' -
Is to separate the messengers human flaws from their message.

[donk]

I agree, with every word…that is super important. It is a service to others to remind everyone not to throw out babies with the bathwater. But there’s also something to be said to pointing out turds in the bathwater…

I interpret the message of this thread, is beware: the messenger may not be what they seem…and definitely is human, so not exactly everything you perceive.

I sympathize with Cameron, it is painful to have your whole paradigm rocked, and important to keep in mind that you (and your favorite guru) may have things wrong. Approaching any spiritual teacher (and teaching) with caution seems to be a message nearly as important as “don’t judge the messenger”. Balance.

The intent of the messenger CAN be as important as the message. There can be a message, a lesson, in examining the intent and substance…rather than just taking all “nicely resonating” messengers and messages--even "catlysts"--at superficial face value.

[Clarity]

here's your chance ...

Thanks I'll check it out.

[Delight]

I just had to speak up here as I have been struggling with my own strength in the face of disillusion and fear... not with Teal but doubt in my own faith in core principles.

I do not see her Teal as dangerous except maybe for herself. She has to live with herself while followers and family can come and go. I also consider the only danger in "new age" is seeing no distinction between what is called the "new age" commercial sales programs and what IS empowered spiritual development. It is like when kids mistake Shakespeare and the cliff notes bullet points.

IMO, If people want to throw out what is false (the perhaps 10% of disinfo) and keep what is true (the 90% of rock solid), it takes quite a great sense of strength FIRST. You can't ask someone and get a ready answer. And actually the dance between the faux guru and the followers will make all parties dizzy so all my fall in a crack of disillusion. Teal has said recently in a quote that cynicism is a defense against disappointment (paraphrase).

For anyone who has been following Teal, who has followed new age ideas, one would suspect that she reads lots of books. When she claimed she had never read Abraham Hicks, I was amused. The interview with cameron was no surprise there. She is possibly like what is claimed of JZ Knight reading and memorizing and failing to give attribution for her teachings. This pulls her out of integrity. IMO this a lack of integrity approach to "spiritual" teaching ends up rebounding negatively.

IMO a person who wants to be famous (as she will tell you in her blogs) through being a new age spiritual leader is setting herself up for misery. It IMO is not a really healthy way to deal with material issues of seeking wealth and attention. The people who have tried it look to end badly.

Teal uses the youtube culture in a business plan tapping the current desire for spiritual guidance as self help. She models blatant sexual allure and horror titillation starting with her story that she plays up. Her business model is a self published book, offering free videos to build an audience, getting a book deal from Hay house, blogging her own story, becoming "controversial" (she uses that word) to continue building interest.

She reminds me of L Ron Hubbard quite a bit. One can see the analogy very clearly if one studies "spiritualized narcissm". It is really a sad kind of suffering.
L Ron Hubbard ended up terrified and died in hiding paranoia. Who cares about fame or money when sick and paranoid? If you study the biographies there is a strange correlation between seeking fame by manipulating spiritual ideas and a not so happy ending to a life story.

Best to all seekers including Teal, Maggie

[giovonni]

I just had to speak up here

Best to all seekers including Teal and Maggie ... :)

[donk]

Well said Maggie.

To me, I agree with everything you say, except that she (and those like her) are only dangerous to herself. I kinda agree on the level that anyone going through their experience coming in to contact with her ARE responsible for themselves, but I feel personally duty-bound to attempt to warn those that I see walking a similar path to mine.

While it was an invaluable experience in my growth, had I gone into it with more information (and thus a more open mind, a better chance at independent thought and more “ammo” with which to make healthy decisions), I’d have wasted less time and experienced less heartache.

So I am looking at it more from Cameron’s point of view, with Teal being the “constant” in the equation, the charismatic, intelligent “guide” with mostly good direction for her followers. She expresses a couple of times how stupid she feels for having to be sucked in, the disappointment in directing so much energy in an unhealthy direction…a feeling I know all too well.

Conversely, it seems that others feel as duty-bound as I do, except on the opposite duality. Many feel it’s important to show their loyalty, push their pet ideas, defend their favorite personalities, and urge others to ignore the fact the speakers may not be walking their talk. I feel compelled to be a balance to that.

I do think that my ‘splainin’ it is intrinsically more valuable than those that protect their emotional attachments, I found it to be really liberating—and believe others may as well. Keeping in mind, I may be wrong…maybe it is better to just let the gurus preacher and the followers follow and the relationship Teal has with her followers and reality and her teachings is a better way. I am just present my experience and my interpretation of reality.

Sure, you can learn a lot of information from a talker, but when they don’t apply their teachings to themselves, that action is a dangerous lesson: you can get ahead and what you want in this world by spouting off lessons you don’t seem to believe, holding others to standards you don’t apply to yourself, that deception is OK if some “good” comes out of it.

So more than anything, I wanted to suggest that the information that you are most resistant to is perhaps the most important to explore from a different perspective. That if your sitting there thinking, “duh, Phil everyone knows that…”, ask yourself again—and be REAL honest with yourself. I see a lot of conflict—and through rigorous self-examination and brutal self honesty I realized that all the conflict and negativity I saw outside of myself was just a reflection of my internal reality.

At a certain point, when I took real responsibility for my internal reality, when I finally REALLY was able to “go within” like everyone kept projected on me that I needed to do that…after I learned true loving detachment and unconditional love, now that I’ve been through all that, I feel qualified to try to help be YOUR mirror…if you so choose it.

All I can do at the moment is share my experience. Which includes sharing my interpretation of what I experience (like you telling me your experience, like Cam sharing hers…). Sorry if I offend you, but I just tell it how it is, to me…I do see the good in everyone, give everyone the benefit of the doubt, try real hard to never throw babies with bathwater or attack the messenger for the sake of it or based on their personality or flaws. If you get upset about something someone says, take the advice that was given to me every time someone wise noticed: Go within. Be honest with yourself.

[Snookie]

Well said, but I think all these items are really describing Spirituality and not New Age.



What is 'New Age' anyway ?

it's people taking responsibility for their own lives, not blaming others for their problems.
it's people who deliberately decide to learn and grow.
it's people who don't have to be right, except for themselves.
it's people seeing problems as lessons, perhaps in a long series of lives and lessons.
it's people who believe we are what we think we are, and can change ourselves by changing our thinking.
it's people who feel they can change the world by changing themselves, not by trying to change others.
it's people who search for strength from the universe by going inside themselves.
it's people that recognize that love doesn't have to have conditions attached.
it's people knowing and loving themselves in order to better know and love others.
it's people who see others as not better nor less but rather different than themselves, yet part of the same whole.
it's people that choose their own path rather than follow dogma.
it's people honoring your right to your own path, not theirs.
it's people who realize that now is all we have, since yesterday is just a thought and so is tomorrow.
it's people interested in owning themselves rather than things.
it's people who see joy in life rather than pain, having experienced enough pain already.
it's people curious about extra sensory perception and all it implies.
it's people in all walks of life, from business persons to flower essence healers, psychologists to UFO investigators.

New Age is not a religion with a hierarchy of priests and rituals , seeking converts, though some new-agers choose some ritual.
New Age is not often gloom-and-doomers, though many are concerned about ecology, the economy and other forces that affect our world.
New Age is not a movement based on guilt, anger, fear, or hurt, it is a journey toward the love that is our prime creator.
New Age is not allegiance to one master; it is learning from many masters in the quest for the oneness of prime creator [all that is].
New Age could not become a cult because of what is said above.
New Age is not just humans doing, it is humans being.

[Delight]

I just had to speak up here

Best to all seekers including Teal and Maggie ... :)

Thank you very much Gio!

Donk,
I never was in a religious cult but I was raised by someone who used her status as a "so special" spiritual being to cover her extreme self absorption. She could be seemingly the best friend, heart mate and an angel. Amazingly even when we as her intimates were blasted, or spilt up by her machinations, she could pull us back again by her charisma. That worked for her a long time but failed finally. This being was very fractured and could not access her inner resources.

There is something that has been repudiated by many in "new age" teachings about "victims, persecutors and saviors" (V-P-S). It is very hard to accept that being in this triangle of dis-empowerment is not TRUE. It makes people very angry and the comments are scathing. OF COURSE there are SOME victims!!

However I do not know how one can be both the infinite, eternal, creative force in one's life and yet be a victim. Victims need persecutors and ask for saving. To play being a savior calls others victims and persecutors. To be a persecutor is also to create victims and needed saviors. So IMO this is a place that I am sure must be addressed whole heart.

That is not to say we should allow abuse when we see it...that is enabling the same forces. But we can still refuse to see the V-P-S as a reality IMO. It is certainly the deal breaker IMO in teachings...one needs the guru or hierarchy or whatever OR NOT.

People will sometimes take the idea on halfway but IMO like a switch, it cannot be half on, half off. There is one state and the other...they do not meet from what I can see...

Teals writings speak to her confusion here as she still uses her victimization and also her sensitivity, her triggers. Cameron did say quite a bit there and it is familiar to me as a strategy I have seen. But I am not saying Teal is the problem for ME. The problem for ME is where am I placing my own attention and acting?

This could be a light hearted game when we know without a doubt the state where we can ditch the triad. In observing, ones who still are willing to play the victim, the savior and the persecutor game in any position are in one reality bubble. The other is a whole new ball game. I am seeking in that other diamond to play outside this configuration and I feel very awkward, all elbows and knees and the plays are not skillful yet.

So PERHAPS, the most dangerous aspect of the "age" is when people stop playing the traditional V-P-S? IMO look to the 10% and there one will be encouraged to find the V-P-S. Still on the road to find out, Maggie

EDIT

How to address abuse without enabling the V-P-S is part of the game IMO.

If I see something in my own view that looks abusive, knowing that this is not real? For one thing, calling up the lovingness of how one treats oneself. If I find that I hate "you", I am a persecutor and become that. If I do not afford "you" value in what you have experienced and attempt to "keep you from harm" against your own need to explore, I am acting like a savior. If I feel fear of what "you" do I am a victim.

IMO the best way is create systems of life that are basic care FOR everyone. Children cherished and attention paid FOR them, sick people known to be healed just because HEALTH is, people with dangerous activities stopped not from hate of the person but because it is not acceptable to endanger. It is dealing with behavior as the issue. If the behavior is impinging on others to their disadvantage, it cannot be that supportive of life IMO?

This takes me off into visioning a world that enables all life to express itself from interconnection as we know what effects others does effect us. That seems contradictory to "creating our reality" but IMO, it is noted that what I give out in my experience is then returned. So it does need a "reality tunnel" to work.

I always use Robert Anton Wilson's "Cosmic Trigger"as a primer on how what we focus on and give energy towards seems to then happen to us with synchronous regularity. So One learns the way of effect by learning the receipts of our predominant state as individuals IMO. The state will change as I choose to experience a new condition.

The world is basically a place to learn how to be with others allowing each to express themselves and let all have the chance to be full all at the same time. This is a messy world but the game could change so we are not always being the V-P-S for one another!

Is it possible to really deal with the off the mark behavior that "hurts" without making others "right and wrong" in the collective? This is really new age of the collective experience IMO and never tried because we get stuck in being at the effect of others. The world "against" us needs control to manage.

The "new thought" that is from the last century emphasizes the inner mental attitude that shapes the outer. This line of thought has us spend our focus on seeing wholeness and feeling into the place where we are already what we wish life to be then acting from there. It takes us out of the created reality into creating the world IMO. The inner world we create in mind is the filter that literally matters I am certain.

And the sahdows of reflected appearance are meaningful still. We have to see what comes up IMO, not as something we are a part from but places where we need healing of our mind. This is truth IMO. It calls for mental attitudes like radical forgiveness that has not been implemented yet IMO except one to one.

Maybe it is just one by one, one to one applied? If we see the whole as here in a benevolent circumstance where all is well despite conditions we observe and geared so we can choose again differently (changing as we change), that is a peaceful place to be. Then we can deal moment to moment with what is in front of us IMO.

In some ways Teal approaches these areas conceptually and people say "yes" but again, she IMO mixes things up by her focus of attention. Again, even 10% off is off IMO. But certainly I use her example as a screen mostly to see what I value. For that I am grateful to her and all teachers I see.

[donk]

There is something that has been repudiated by many in "new age" teachings about "victims, persecutors and saviors" (V-P-S). It is very hard to accept that being in this triangle of dis-empowerment is not TRUE. It makes people very angry and the comments are scathing. OF COURSE there are SOME victims!!

Is that why we are among the very few showing any interest in this discussion…we’re still seeking, and pointing out the patterns we see? Me, you, and a handful of others are the only ones feeling our way outside the paradigm, while everyone else already has it figured out (their either stuck in it and it’s great, some even protect it…or so far out they don’t interfere or it’s just boring)?

There seems to be such a subtle difference in the way we process information….it’s like the information itself gets put stuck in the cycle.

I thought “spiritual” thinking was breaking down the artificial complexities (which exist because of our emotional attachments we may not necessarily have a rational/experiential basis for healthily holding on to) to get to the core of what is actually REAL…(or at least what seems the most real to the most perspectives—I’m not convinced of any truths outside of “I am”, and even that is negotiable, to me).

What is real (to me, as I perceive the posts in this thread) in this situation, in a commonly agreed upon as a “useful” format of transmitting information, our personal fave “bullet points”:
-Teal presents a lot of good teachings a lot of people resonate with, passionately defending her based on her videos (and I guess whatever information they choose to believe about her)
-Cameron was taken in by the character, and rather than just listening to the talks, walked her ass into Teal’s house and life
-What Cameron found through experience was disturbingly different enough from the reality she originally believed that she felt compelled to broadcast it through Jessicamystic**
-No one defending Teal presents anything that conflicts with Cameron’s story, not even really acknowledging a statement or “accusation” she makes

**another takeaway I got from this thread is totally off-topic, and that is--who is Jessica/does she have an agenda/is she for real—a glance at her webpage leads me to the perception that she wants to show how she’s grown/changed/learned from mistakes…could she be a “good” example (of “spiritual growth”) or a “bad” example (another attention seeking “spiritual teacher”) or a complete nonentity (as I choose to view her in this context…which I acknowledge may be incorrect to do)?

[donk]

heh...i wrote my post before seeing your edit...I feel like I'm on your wavelength!


she IMO mixes things up by her focus of attention

This is kinda funny, I was thinking about how focus around here is hard to direct more toward substance and away from emotional attachments. Threads become people’s feelings about the characters or particular ideas, and often the complete opposite direction of any real information exchange or better understanding of our shared reality. Always baby steps, I guess…

[Jake]

Very good points being discussed. I can't recognize any of it. I've heard Teal speak dozens of times. Her story IS disturbing. So is Camerons... I see a conflict of interest in Jessicas goal to:

1) Make sure that she demonizes Teal, and she is sure to include shots at David Icke too.. ??
2) Make sure that she continues to sell her own brand of 'healing'.

I see it as a conflict of interest. Surely her 'sales' are boosted by her 'negative advertising' of the 'competition'...

For all I know, Teal is exactly who she says she is,,, maybe not.

The little skeptic that sits on my shoulder is warning me of the desire of Jessica to make money from demonizing folks in the New Age movement...

Though, my little skeptic is often wrong..


Cheers
Jake.

[donk]

I totally agree Jake, but consider this: if Jessica is using LIES to boost her sales or in competition with Teal, that’s a crime. If it effected Teal negatively, she has a pretty solid court case for slander or perjury or something? Do you really believe she wouldn’t at least address Cameron’s claims (if not sue)?

Do you believe Cameron’s motivation is negative?

Can you get anything out of the discussion, doing what I did, for the purposes of the exercise, remove “jessica” from consideration?

Otherwise, that seems to support a thorough investigation of the character of everyone involved…especially Teal?

Also: can you imagine it possible Jessica walking the path Teal took, learning from it, and changing?

[Jake]

I totally agree Jake, but consider this: if Jessica is using LIES to boost her sales or in competition with Teal, that’s a crime. If it effected Teal negatively, she has a pretty solid court case for slander or perjury or something? Do you really believe she wouldn’t at least address Cameron’s claims (if not sue)?

Do you believe Cameron’s motivation is negative?

Can you get anything out of the discussion, doing what I did, for the purposes of the exercise, remove “jessica” from consideration?

Otherwise, that seems to support a thorough investigation of the character of everyone involved…especially Teal?

Also: can you imagine it possible Jessica walking the path Teal took, learning from it, and changing?

I can't say that I think that Cameron's motivation is negative. I can't say that Jessica's motivation is negative either. Jessica can be telling the whole truth,, but only doing so to boost sales.. That too, is suspect to me..

Very good point about being able to sue for libel and slander. Admittedly, I am not an expert in the law with these regards..

I listened closely to Cameron's story, and I read the transcript too. Man-o-man,, I can see that it may have played out exactly the way she describes it. Maybe it IS responsible for her and Jessica to expose it..

Jessica is on record saying that teaching spirituality is akin to CHILD ABUSE... The very same thing that she has demonized Teal for discussing in her own life... Who has the better definition of child abuse??

Jake.

[Delight]

heh...i wrote my post before seeing your edit...I feel like I'm on your wavelength!


she IMO mixes things up by her focus of attention

This is kinda funny, I was thinking about how focus around is hard to direct more toward substance and away from emotional attachments. Threads become people’s feelings about the characters or particular ideas, and often the complete opposite direction of any real information exchange or better understanding of our shared reality. Always baby steps, I guess…

Hi,
I think we do share a wavelength. In the posts I see from you, I notice you are questioning ideas and I also question them. Questionning seems to bring some immunity to being persuaded? It seems a stable way to investigate the collective thought stream. If you value thinking for yourself and not just thinking what is given, questions are IMO like leverage.

The thing about media is that not just the mainstream is presenting "untruth". IMO anything that is without a whole context is not true in itself. So if someone presents a part truth, without the whole idea (that they may be actually with-holding) IMO it is unreliable. In you tube culture, people can see a video and never know what the presenting person is really up to behind the screen. IMO, it is weird how out of context information may be, but people just agree or never disagree.

Yes, cults of personality seem easily created and not easily challenged. I have no idea why this is so? I am always wondering what the principles are underneath so I can also like you said


break(ing) down the artificial complexities (which exist because of our emotional attachments we may not necessarily have a rational/experiential basis for healthily holding on to) to get to the core of what is actually REAL…(or at least what seems the most real to the most perspectives—I’m not convinced of any truths outside of “I am”, and even that is negotiable, to me).


Jessica seems to be competing with Teal. She made the point that she was famous as a new age Crystal Child on Camelot. From other writing, I think she was hurt in some way? Now she seems in reaction to something, seems enthralled by her own guru, seems in need of tearing all "new age" teachers up. Cameron gave her a platform. Cameron came across quite calm, just seeking clarity over her experience. Jessica was seeming angry in general. People will probably just like Teal more if they already like Teal and want to stay liking Teal. If people know that is what is their value, fine, no problem.

If one is unquestioning (therefore asserting some "boundary") while looking at media, and has little POV, IMO one is just possibly an open vessel. I have some questions about what energetically we may ingest as the "real" vibe when we just want the "ideal" vibe suggested in a message. The signature of a person is whole when you can observe from an energy level. Are we adopting all the energy when we just "take it all in" even if not spelled out? I did not make this idea up as to the way that memes contain an energetic history we accept along with the thought form.

Personally I think we can exclude energetically unwanted material by countering with our own response? That is if we want to "go there" and look at something.
So, not to stifle anyone in the collective broadcast and to take in the 90% of what is valuable, one IMO can have one's own (maybe provisional, altering and evolving) position to place as a counter point for the broadcast. In my seeking of ideas that I can love, I do want to use my (changing though it may be) view as my balance point. IM0 by talking back in posts when it is about something we are investigating, since this is a forum, we are asserting our own ability to stand for what seems our present truth.

You said something funny to me about Cameron walking in to Teal's house. If Teal does one thing well, it is inviting us to enter her "space" and feel like she is a friend. She can be a fantasy of the ideal GF (as evidenced by the hot comments she receives) on youtube. I have no question about gaps between ideals and reals in all of us. The defense of Teal is she is "real".

What is somewhat crazy making IF people do decide to make her really "real" by actually moving to her house, you observe a friend who clearly demonstrates on the shadow house videos (that are down now) how unsafe her behavior can be. This was true with the drama of Fallon, her ex BF, and Cameron where Teal took Byron Katies "work" and used it strangely: aimed the household "judge your neighbor" at Cameron. This was an entirely weird use of the material meant to honor how we turn judgements around on others when it is our own action we are judging.

Teal also blogs and you see how she is thinking and sure she makes sense. Maybe people just like that conviction? That conviction is a bit dicey. If we are not already strong, it could sway us in a direction we really never intended?

Teal is in a way fascinating to me as a sociology study and as a Galactic sociologist (hehe) I like observing these trends.

[giovonni]

Here's something you might enjoy observing Maggie ...

Tom Cruise Brings His Scientology Medal Out Of The Closet


Tom Cruise has been spotted in England with a Scientology medal of valor that he hasn’t been seen in for 10 years. Is there some significance to this public display, and what else is going on in the higher echelons of the Church of Scientology? We get a look at the strange playbook of L. Ron Hubbard being executed by David Miscavige and his underlings in this Media Mayhem with guest, Tony Ortega.

GUEST BIO:
Tony Ortega is executive editor of The Raw Story and is formerly the editor of The Village Voice. He's written about Scientology since 1995, and has a forthcoming book about the subject.

Published on Oct 21, 2014


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l9XxO98WDug&list=UUBeyuzUWyvDAVpS_ibwMwnA

[donk]

Wow, Maggie, I am totally tuned in to what you are saying, you eloquently elaborated a lot of points I was trying to make.

I am fascinated by this whole thing from a completely different angle, though. I did not recognize Jessica from the Camelot videos (though I’m starting to feel like I kinda may…jnow that we’re talking about it), so now I have to go back…

See, in the posted interviews, she rarely (but definitely did, occasionally) revealed anything in opposition to my personal beliefs, I felt she did some emotional attachment but controlled it fairly well (at first, the more they got into it, the more she got in the mode I see a lot of catty people getting into…bordering on and even falling into straight gossip)…enough so that to me, it was more a platform for Cameron sharing her “truth” rather than being a jessicamystic show.

Cuz I have to be honest, the first 20-30 minutes or whatever I had to rewatch, as I realized I was watching it as if the interviewer was reasonably unattached in the subject matter….as soon as I heard “jessicamystic” red flags went off, and I re-watched keeping in check my wariness of “alt media celebs” while keeping an awareness that she PROBABLY has an agenda. As a whole though, I feel she did a decent job making it appear at least to be pretty objective for the most part.

So to round up this off-topic thought, the surface glance I took of the jessicamystic intrigued the cosmic sociologist in myself. I totally realize I had to consciously project all the assumptions that I was looking at a fractal, Jess pointing at Teal looking at Jess who is the same……whatever, trying to look at it from other angles than my gut reaction. So just scrolling down real quick, her front page in big shiny letters were pretty much apologies for who she was and expressing how she learned and grew and changed. Isn’t that a lot of what this all about, for most people? Wouldn’t it be a pleasant surprise, if that were the case? Maybe I will take the time to look…at the moment my attention is on the phenomon or journey or whatever, rather than any specific individuals…

….but I always am on the lookout, for the gurus who have been mislead, or mislead themselves, to actually take their own advice to heart, to walk their walk…what a wonderful redemption story that would be….a meta-escape from the V-P-S cycle…

[donk]

Here's something you might enjoy observing Maggie ...



I know I will...thanks for that Gio!!

[giovonni]

Marty TRing ...

http://www.unsungfilms.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/feldman04.jpg

[Delight]

So to round up this off-topic thought, the surface glance I took of the jessicamystic intrigued the cosmic sociologist in myself. I totally realize I had to consciously project all the assumptions that I was looking at a fractal, Jess pointing at Teal looking at Jess who is the same……whatever, trying to look at it from other angles than my gut reaction. So just scrolling down real quick, her front page in big shiny letters were pretty much apologies for who she was and expressing how she learned and grew and changed. Isn’t that a lot of what this all about, for most people? Wouldn’t it be a pleasant surprise, if that were the case? Maybe I will take the time to look…at the moment my attention is on the phenomon or journey or whatever, rather than any specific individuals…

….but I always am on the lookout, for the gurus who have been mislead, or mislead themselves, to actually take their own advice to heart, to walk their walk…what a wonderful redemption story that would be….a meta-escape from the V-P-S cycle…

I do think Jessica appears to have been disillusioned in her participation in "new age" circles. Her posts that I have read about Teal before were angry and mean IMO. She is part of what looks like a new kind of enterprise like an "anti cult cult" as it acts in ways like cults do except it says it does not. It is against all beliefs. Isn't not believing in beliefs a belief?

It is quite clear that they are against all new age beliefs and kind of devolve to ugly pictures of the ones they sure seem to have grudges to settle by the way they do the photoshopping. It's on http://www.jessicamystic.com/

IMO, how can we outpicture any sort of "reality" that is not somehow a believed structure? IMO even David Icke says that the Matrix we have is a hacked version of another matrix? And without a way to organize perception, how could we make sense of what we see? Just lines and squiggles? It is the intention of End of Fear Coaching to rid us of belief. It will take a year at least and 1700 pounds (I think or euros) if paid up front to make the break.

If you listen to the 5 hours of the interview, IMO Jessica contradicts herself several times about "belief". For instance in regards to the EOF that she suggests Cameron do, she says something that is IMO a belief...(paraphrased) that people need to pay for things to appreciate the value (so free coaching would not be as appreciated). This is a common belief of commerce.

And Jessica must know there are aliens and know that they don't like us as she mentions them a couple of times at least (or does she really just believe?) Also, when they (the EOFers) are not believers, but we unenlightened (oh I forgot, enlightened has a special meaning and does not exist)are believers, on what grounds will be able to have a discussion about any variation on POV?

I for instance have no intention of giving up the right to POV. I have no interest in throwing all the new age ideas out. I have no interest so I am sure they would see me as a victim of my beliefs (hehe).

That is fine! If I just want to realize how my beliefs shape and in this matrix, craft the ones that will make me a life that is believed to be valuable, thank my inner individual heaven, I have that freedom. I love to believe in their unbelievable things all day....Things like compassion, meditation, words of wisdom, grace, beauty, no fear= allowing of what others believe does not mean a fight. I also believe to focus elsewhere than mere survival can lead to thrival. Maybe they might agree there except it is still in my belief stage so maybe not?

...all that is just unbelievably needing to be ditched in the EOF "way" from what I see is an un-necessary cost of 1700 whatevers.

IMO Jessica has fallen in the crack of cynical that opened up from disillusion. That is IMO not what I am interested in doing either so I do feel "unbelievable" compassion (per Jessica's statement on compassion) for all of us as we attempt to reach meta-E-scape, land where we can have some new adventures.

[CdnSirian]

I just had to speak up here as I have been struggling with my own strength in the face of disillusion and fear... not with Teal but doubt in my own faith in core principles.

I do not see her Teal as dangerous except maybe for herself. She has to live with herself while followers and family can come and go. I also consider the only danger in "new age" is seeing no distinction between what is called the "new age" commercial sales programs and what IS empowered spiritual development. It is like when kids mistake Shakespeare and the cliff notes bullet points.

IMO, If people want to throw out what is false (the perhaps 10% of disinfo) and keep what is true (the 90% of rock solid), it takes quite a great sense of strength FIRST. You can't ask someone and get a ready answer. And actually the dance between the faux guru and the followers will make all parties dizzy so all my fall in a crack of disillusion. Teal has said recently in a quote that cynicism is a defense against disappointment (paraphrase).

For anyone who has been following Teal, who has followed new age ideas, one would suspect that she reads lots of books. When she claimed she had never read Abraham Hicks, I was amused. The interview with cameron was no surprise there. She is possibly like what is claimed of JZ Knight reading and memorizing and failing to give attribution for her teachings. This pulls her out of integrity. IMO this a lack of integrity approach to "spiritual" teaching ends up rebounding negatively.

IMO a person who wants to be famous (as she will tell you in her blogs) through being a new age spiritual leader is setting herself up for misery. It IMO is not a really healthy way to deal with material issues of seeking wealth and attention. The people who have tried it look to end badly.

Teal uses the youtube culture in a business plan tapping the current desire for spiritual guidance as self help. She models blatant sexual allure and horror titillation starting with her story that she plays up. Her business model is a self published book, offering free videos to build an audience, getting a book deal from Hay house, blogging her own story, becoming "controversial" (she uses that word) to continue building interest.

She reminds me of L Ron Hubbard quite a bit. One can see the analogy very clearly if one studies "spiritualized narcissm". It is really a sad kind of suffering.
L Ron Hubbard ended up terrified and died in hiding paranoia. Who cares about fame or money when sick and paranoid? If you study the biographies there is a strange correlation between seeking fame by manipulating spiritual ideas and a not so happy ending to a life story.

Best to all seekers including Teal, Maggie

I have heard Teal refer to Abraham Hicks a few times.

¤=[Post Update]=¤


Very good points being discussed. I can't recognize any of it. I've heard Teal speak dozens of times. Her story IS disturbing. So is Camerons... I see a conflict of interest in Jessicas goal to:

1) Make sure that she demonizes Teal, and she is sure to include shots at David Icke too.. ??
2) Make sure that she continues to sell her own brand of 'healing'.

I see it as a conflict of interest. Surely her 'sales' are boosted by her 'negative advertising' of the 'competition'...

For all I know, Teal is exactly who she says she is,,, maybe not.

The little skeptic that sits on my shoulder is warning me of the desire of Jessica to make money from demonizing folks in the New Age movement...

Though, my little skeptic is often wrong..


Cheers
Jake.

My thoughts almost exactly.

Teal has skirted where Fritz Springmeier dared to go and I'm amazed she only has this stuff to perhaps deal with, if she deals with it.
No more perfect place than Avalon to smear her. Just because there are so many readers. It's all words. What is "spirituality"?

[Delight]

I have heard Teal refer to Abraham Hicks a few times......

No more perfect place than Avalon to smear her. Just because there are so many readers. It's all words. What is "spirituality"?

I do not think I was smearing her (and maybe you do not mean me personally and no offense taken) by discussing what I consider to be evidence of issues of integrity concerning her claims. They could seem like smears but maybe they are important in issues of my trust? I do acknowledge a lack of trust in Teal's veracity. Yet, I do wish her well as a person and won't talk about her more. Maggie

But anyway since I did not give attribution for my statements, I will.

3/28/2013, in an interview with Nova Zimm, she said she had only just heard about Abraham Hicks about a year before...

At 20:10 she says she considers Abraham accurate but Esther is still a physical human while she is more like Abraham manifested.
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In May, 2011 a Jason Freeman (who has been observed to be possibly her business partner Blake by researchers who do not much appreciate aggressive marketing if it is under false pretenses) put this on a forum:


Hello all,
I am a free lance journalist who is a long time devotee of a teacher called Teal Scott (The spiritual catalyst)
When I was discussing Teal's teachings to a friend a while back, they said wow... That sounds just like what Abraham is saying. So, I decided to check it out.
I love the messages of both these Teachers (which are so very similar) I can't tell you the good it has brought to my life. I believe we are presented teachers just when we need them most. http://www.abeforum.com/showthread.php?22281-Found-Abraham-because-of-Teal-Scott-%28The-Spiritual-Catalyst%29


Here is a possibly derivative not acknowledged and also kind of missing a meaning Abraham Hicks gives take on manifestation in 7/23/2012 :


I have read teal describe 3 step of manifestation.....
Which are Step 1, you experience the contrast which cause you to ask
Step 2, You line up with the experience
Step 3, the experience manifest.


Upon reading this I though, oh that is essentially the same as the 3 step Abraham describe, but looking up Abraham's three steps, I realised that although similar there is a change that alters the way one might look at the idea to manifestation.
Abrahams are Step 1, you experience the contrast which causes you to ask
Step 2, An answer is given
Step 3, You line up with it and allow that answer that has been given, ie it manifests


Teals steps essential miss step 2 and split step 3 in two steps, so it seem that it is actually teals perspective that is missing a step, and a very important one a that, and that is that as soon as we ask, it is done, and all we need to is release resistance towards its doneness to see it manifest.


So on one had you have a teacher who is teaching from the perspective that what you want is done, and on the other hand you have a teacher who is teaching from the perspective that you can create what is wanted if you achieve a vibration that it is done, which means why you are spending time trying to figure out what is holding you back, you are not enjoying the fact that is it done and therefore not allowing it. http://www.thespiritscience.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=55&t=8218&start=15

[CdnSirian]

Delight: I'm sorry I should have included the OP on that statement!

I find little difference in what Teal or Abraham says. Abraham changes the wording and the angle at least once a year. But not the basic concept. I think that humans don't get it so a turn of phrase is adopted by this or that teacher. I have seen Bashar do that too.

I would love to be able to know everyone's background and everyone's authenticity but it's not possible.

"she says she considers Abraham accurate but Esther is still a physical human while she is more like Abraham manifested." That's a strange thing to say as we're all manifestations of Source. And she's obviously a physical human too.

Oh well - it is a strange world isn't it? The scarcity/clawing in the competition affects many. We'll see how Teal/Jessica/Cameron do. Perhaps quite well, and without any of us.

Thanks for replying.

[Delight]

it is a strange world isn't it? The scarcity/clawing in the competition affects many.

The OP here was the title I think of the Jessica Schaub interview with Cameron Clark...both seekers like me. And yes, Teal is seeking. There is that proverb "Seeking is not Finding". I happened on this video today. It is a recording from one of the 20th century "trance channels" Jane Roberts who was the voice of Seth.

Probably many people have encountered ideas that were brought to our attention from Seth materials and those materials like this Seth material. IMO they are profound and I am just not able to dissuade my self that this kind of information has any danger in itself at all.

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I love PA for the variety of content people bring here. IMO, I can have my own solid base of "finding" my inner connection to what may well be the "source" of all information. Then I may play and sift valuable to me info reflected "outside". This is what the mind IMO likes to do.

I am not particularly concerned that I am still in love with information and seeking to refine ideas For my Own use. I LOVE information and I love beauty and I love elegance and I love being able to think about things, challenge thoughts and see the way thoughts may be used and so what. I get to share what I love and so what if I am sharing just because I love sharing ideas and not because I am a sage. I do also challenge what looks very snarky IMO as it just looks like that to me and but so what.

So just to ask like a rhetorical type question: "What is dangerous in the new age?" It is the sheer magnitude of thoughts and IMO mistaking thoughts for the thinker. But this is NOT going to kill us as I seriously doubt the thinker is mortal.....
People (like me) may go through many phases of seeking (whatever) but so what? (a Bashar expletive)
People may be entangled in the machinations of people who need others to survive (AND WHO USE INFORMATION AND BELIEF TO ENTANGLE) as they cannot survive by themselves but so what?
Poeple may be deluded by the astral PLETHORA but so what?
People may never seem to find what they think is real because it is something they thought to think and they are searching and searching to find but so what?

The "so what" is about the difference between a point of power that IS within, mistaking what can be believed for who "thunk it up".
I know that "I am within" this Consciousness/energy (I dunno...beyond belief) as well as that I am in my house at the moment...that matter of fact just seems to be true.

I entertain that we are here playing with belief itself and what that demonstrates.
Belief is what I use to make a picture of the house and "me" and "you".
The power IN me makes the picture.
That power is not the beliefs and so what.
It is FELT and I am pretty sure we ALL have this access to power.

EDIT
SO... going back to danger, IF we insist on using thought and ideas against ourselves and believe in what makes us personally deeply unhappy, it feels quite yucky. But so what really, IF we can just learn who is doing what?

IF we insist that this yuck is "Real"and that we have no power to change our mind, IMO that could be perceived then experienced badly as my case in point with Messianic paranoia beliefs projected. People who think that life is a certain way will seem to have that happen...this is demonstrated over and over in "history".

IF life is perceived from a down low perspective like with the V-P-S triad belief, UNTIL we change our mind, we are in a bind IMO.

[donk]

So what?

In my experience, beliefs (any, potentially) can be dangerous to people who aren't in as good a relationship with reality and themselves. Lying to ourselves leads to waste of life, so i try to live my life in a way counter to that way I have been taught, as have all others I've encountered in this reality I find myself immersed in.

I try to be an example, creating a reality where I encourage all others I share it with to do the same (seek, that is, truth...hunt & expose, the lies we tell ourselves)

So what, indeed...on the grand scheme it means next to nothing, in my day to day reality however, it is my purpose to find truth

[Delight]

So what?

In my experience, beliefs (any, potentially) can be dangerous to people who aren't in as good a relationship with reality and themselves. Lying to ourselves leads to waste of life, so i try to live my life in a way counter to that way I have been taught, as have all others I've encountered in this reality I find myself immersed in.

I try to be an example, creating a reality where I encourage all others I share it with to do the same (seek, that is, truth...hunt & expose, the lies we tell ourselves)

So what, indeed...on the grand scheme it means next to nothing, in my day to day reality however, it is my purpose to find truth

Hi Donk,
I am sure what you want for others is a reality I also appreciate so thank you. If anything, given how so many cannot share my perception of what seems really true, there must be some strange case of parallel reality tunnels? I know that others do not share my preoccupations. Is this going to make me stop being occupied by my own interests, no, so I can't see attempting to stop others will work?

It is just really weird that this "life" has so many different people seeing things all differently? For instance with the OP, Jessica now holds so much conviction for the new age being dangerous in itself. To rise out of an argument with "is this "true" or "not true", I simply do entertain that all of what people think must be true enough for them. When people see their beliefs appearing to them as true, how can I argue?

Maybe I think I can argue through "principles" but that does not seem convincing to others unless they share my POV already hehe.


“When we meet somebody whose separate tunnel-reality is obviously far different from ours, we are a bit frightened and always disoriented. We tend to think they are mad, or that they are crooks trying to con us in some way, or that they are hoaxers playing a joke. Yet it is neurologically obvious that no two brains have the same genetically-programmed hard wiring, the same imprints, the same conditioning, the same learning experiences. We are all living in separate realities. That is why communication fails so often, and misunderstandings and resentments are so common. I say "meow" and you say "Bow-wow," and each of us is convinced the other is a bit dumb.”
― Robert Anton Wilson, Prometheus Rising

If there are larger meta-scapes of structure that can hang many individual beliefs...like having bodies, having a world with gravity and an atmosphere, IMO in these we have larger common beliefs.

Actually having any aspect of what seems to be in "my life" compare as truth or not truth is futile IMO to discuss with others. However it is interesting to ME to discuss the entertainment that when we make something real for us it seems to happen by our own minds. I have seen over and over that this seems "true" in my family and friends, and in my experience, not just in concept on a forum.

I know from my experience that I am not sensitive to viruses for example but others I know insist there are viruses that will attack. Is this "virus" real or not real? Must be a "true" experience for many as they seem to be ill. The details of what we see happen get finer and finer the closer you look. I don't meet aliens but many are sure they do meet them..Is that true or NOT true? I actually do not really care if I meet aliens so am I just excluding the EXPERIENCE by my lack of interest? Would it ever do any good to argue my not meeting them when others have the interest in aliens?

And so I suspect that we can change but that we cannot change others. Maybe examples of what looks to work "better" for certain intentions "in life"and what does not work end up being collected in some sort of cosmic DSM codex like the akashic hehe? Maybe whole groups of thinkers siphon off the examples and act them out?

It seems sort of ironic that there is the expression (paraphrase)"those who do not remember the past are doomed to repeat it>"From my weirdish vantage point is looks the opposite like "Those who remember the past are RE-MEMbering a page from the history and then replicate".

In school we had advanced nurse practitioner handbooks like cook books which we had to use to treat conditions. It then made us slot people's conditions but it was mandatory to use them. The labels were then carried off like truth. It said nothing about truth but I noticed how sticky the labels become and people declare "I have (the label)". Dr. Joe Dispenza says we are the placebo and the nocebo by our attention to the meanings we give. Bashar says we give all the meaning there is to anything. This seems a truth.

The cookbook approach to creating diagnosis that those labeled may live out seems like a similar version of how people script memes and they replicate as long as adopted. Teal promotes "sex sells" Jessica's "money spent increases value given" replicates. These are arbitrary and nor"true" until agreed IMO.

Those who agree will probably find that they feel satisfied by the "truth" there.

If there is truth, personally I entertain it is in the "way things work" and not what is created by the way things work. So I say like Neville Goddard...god is the imagination. The mind is informational and creates. Intelligence is using the mind in more elegant ways....


“Intelligence is the capacity to receive, decode and transmit information efficiently. Stupidity is blockage of this process at any point. Bigotry, ideologies etc. block the ability to receive; robotic reality-tunnels block the ability to decode or integrate new signals; censorship blocks transmission.”
― Robert Anton Wilson

[Tangri]

6 Hours video watching to find out if it is worth it or not?

You are having wrong idea on Avalonian's leisure time.
Just give the highlights.

[Kelly Anne]

A little of topic I know but .......


Has anyone listened to the videos? Particularly the last one?


I've noticed very often people post or respond without even reading or listening to the attachments. Why??????
Why take the time to give your thoughts and opinions if you don't fully understand what exactly you are responding to.

Clarity...I would be one of those people...and here is why:

i'm video'd out at the moment...I've sooo shoved 'spirituality' video's, essays, quotes, so to speak and have participated in groups (one now which brought me to this thread) that what I've seen is that whatever it is...the "New Age Movement", "Spirituality", "Awakening"...I'm seeing a lot of brawling going on...Are the vid's in the op more of that? Phew...I don't know as I started to watch the first vid and decided enough is enough for now.

I can relate in what many are saying in the comments to the op and video's because I've had questions myself....maybe my hesitance to actually watch the vid is because of how the op was presented, and I'm tired of fighting right now? Why watch to add fuel to my own annoyance?

Do I discount any of the movements/labels? No. I relate to a lot of it. Could it be I am confused? Could be.

I am actually seeing that these movements are heading in the direction of organized religions...purely from how I see the participants of the movements interacting with each other-"Oh, yes you agree and understand with what I am saying-you are on the right track...WAIT, but you do not agree with this or that of what I believe...Nope, I was wrong-you are not what you say (Twin Flame, on your path, enlightened path, true spirit, authentic, Gold/Blue/Pink/Violet ray, etc..). I mean, isn't this a big characteristic of anything organized whether it be a group of sports fans, religion, patriotism, knitting group, fandoms..If you question or disagree with anything I believe then you are not 'right' or 'welcome'?

There was a discussion on a FB group about "Do we have free will?" based on contracts our souls sign before we arrive here on Earth. Some agree'd that we do and put their two cents in a few posts. Now, what struck me as odd were the ones who insisted that we do not. Fine...I think most are questioning even what they are choosing to believe (for proof? no, more of an understanding)but it was how they continued to post their stances in the thread...they called the ones who believed in free will 'foolish...kidding themselves...heads up their rear' and continued to make posts mocking those who believed in free will...including the founder of the group who clearly has issues with ego. Do we all? You bet! But, he clearly thinks he knows it all and it is so ironic that he acts the way that he does if he is so in the know ;) Funny also is that with those who agreed with him, he surely enjoyed the ego boost and was not afraid to show it.

The group is touted as a place to discuss and learn from each other. This is not the first thread that this has happened it. It is clearly not a group for what it 'advertises'. LOL

That thread and how the group is...I expected it to be different....I'm interested in others perspective, but ya know how that particular thread was is going on a LOT in the spiritual community and it is something that in a way makes sense to me but doesn't sit right...what am I missing?

I'm seeing responses in this thread as doing the same-(difference with this forum and the few I've been in is that overall everyone is respectful-and when one is not even when another points it out, that person is fine with it..it doesn't get into a thread of mocking and poking..that is important for me-especially for me because I'm trying to see the big picture of things-what have/do I see-what am I missing?)

There is so much all around that the one thing I do know is that there is good and bad in everyone and everything...

So, I am more responding to my perspective of the thread its self. Which, I still have to read the remaining replies....

Enough rambling from me for now! :)

XO

[donk]

6 Hours video watching to find out if it is worth it or not?

You are having wrong idea on Avalonian's leisure time.
Just give the highlights.

Highlights:
-I (Cameron) lived with Teal, it was not what I expected
-she exhibited every trait of a cult leader
-her personal experiences that made her feel the need to transmit the first two

That's what the video is. You may have been able to discern that by actually reading some of the posts in the discussion you chose to "join in" on.

To me, it was quite interesting listening for several hours of my life (I didn't even look at the video, there's still value without it IMO). So tell me: what exactly IS the RIGHT "idea on Avalonian's leisure time"?

[Natalia]

Everyone is healing, growing, learning, falling, rising, hurting, loving, fearing, and that is what this is all about.

[Mu2143]

.....................

[Chester]

whhooops misunderstood

[Anchor]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EkJsSfPOhdo&list=UU1KIUp4PNCyIwCPTq1hYzWQ
EkJsSfPOhdo

Very good video - interesting. Thanks for posting this (in your efforts to keep people away from damaging material - lol)


Is she promoting spiritualism?

No.


or is it some else in a new packages?

Irrelevant because of the first answer - I read this question as innuendo that there is something else going on in a new package.


I think it speaks for it self.

It does! It is a video about the use of orgasm for manifesting. I would never have guessed this from the title which was "How to use an Orgasm to manifest - Teal Swan"

Pretty interesting actually, covers the basics. A lot of what she is talking about is not exactly a mystery to people who are aware of the notion that there is more to us than our bodies and that there is more to sex than well, the physical aspects of that.

Most of what she says about manifestation is valid even if there is no sex involved - but she is talking about orgasm as an amplifier to that process. I wouldn't know if it works or not, I just manifest when I need to anyway - I rather prefer meditation practices for that but there are lots of other ways.

I found as I watched it I could map most of what she was saying into my own framework of understanding.


Damage prevention keeping people away from something that is not what it seems

WHAT is that something which is what it seems? (You said you think it speaks for it self) so what is it speaking to you?

I can't see it from the video from Teal - it seems pretty basic and covers a lot of ground in 18 minutes.

I didn't watch the first one it did not seem serious - a parody? Was it supposed to be funny? Was it supposed to set me up to judge Teal's in a different manner?

[donk]

I agree, second video added to the discussion, that first one totally detracted from it.

From what I understand, teal described what I first learned about from what I learned about Alestair Crowley, synchronistic as 666 is often manifest in my reality, a statistical oddity that fascinates me.

I want to stress I feel the inherent "danger" people seem to get bent when some others try to warn about is not a "bad" thing in itself, like a road is not bad because there can be danger there...it's just a fact (to me) that this particular tool (sex magick) is something you need to take heed of (like speeding reckless cars)

[Pam]

I enjoy the videos Teal makes they are interesting and she is good at explaining certain concepts, although i do not entirely agree with everything she says as sometimes it is just rehashed 'there is no spoon' rubbish. I would join her cult if she lived near me.


I can't help but wonder if we would be having this discussion about Teal if she was old,fat,or ugly............

[ulli]

If Teal was old, fat, or ugly (give it time, folks) she would be choosing less physical topics to talk about.

[chocolate]

I enjoy the videos Teal makes they are interesting and she is good at explaining certain concepts, although i do not entirely agree with everything she says as sometimes it is just rehashed 'there is no spoon' rubbish. I would join her cult if she lived near me.


I can't help but wonder if we would be having this discussion about Teal if she was old,fat,or ugly............

If she were to appear off screen, just using her voice, or her writing, we probably wouldn't have much problem taking in the information. But the fact that she looks the way she looks is a test in itself to prove to us that we still are governed by external impulses.

I am giving her the benefit of the doubt. Whatever she has said has been proved true to me, but I have read a lot, and I have had life lessons to give me some stable point of output.

[wishinshow]

Having met Teal and Blake, I would say that the information which Blake gave me (and I trust what he said) would indicate that there are djinn/veylon which are taking an interest in Teal. This indicates to me that she is not lying about her extrasensory gifts and she is therefore somebody who should be listened to. The way that she integrates many spiritual and psychological teachings into condensed youtube videos is something which presents itself as an anomoly vs the aptitudes which a modern day standard US education might afford an individual.

I believe that Teal has open communication channels with extra/inter dimensional beings. I might further add that if these creatures which she has communication with are 5D and higher, then the information which she is privy to, will most likely be tainted by the creatures' desire to avoid tampering with the free will of terran hominids. So, in my humble opinion, she provides a different service to that of somebody like Simon Parkes. And she provides a valuable service.

I know that i am a more loving and compassionate creature after watching many of her video offerings.

[wishinshow]

deleted because i believe my posting was debase

[transiten]

Stop this "nonsense". Talking about low vibrations :bs:


:EDIT:

(Hi Transiten, "nonsense" has been removed.) - Sierra

[wishinshow]

Hello @donk

I have experienced something extremely bizarre.

Firstly, i am a big fan of Simon Parkes.

About two weeks ago i was reading a post by Simon Parkes where he was suggesting that somebody was a troll. I looked to the left and noticed that he had, at that precise time, posted 666 times. I am not somebody who has previously used any forum, of any sort, to any great extent. I was really most perturbed by this.

Today i was reading your post (above) where you mention that 666 continually shows up in *your* reality. I looked to the left and saw that you had, then, at that exact time, posted 2,666 times!

This is completely bizarre.

Do you or anybody else have any comment?

[transiten]

wishinshow! Synchronicity for sure and you posted at 21.21. Read f.i. "The Synchronicity Key" by David Wilcock.

[vilcabamba]

Jessica did a 180 degree turn after she met that man Diego in Bali. Her blog is on her site and it is very interesting. Her man Diego has many abilities and seems to be inhabited by woman who is also in his body, or something like that. Diego can power up batteries by holding his hand on street lamps. He can see into the future and know what is going to happen. He can describe what Jessica is looking at on her computer without the computer facing him. He has black blood. He seems to be connected with an ET race ?? It is really interesting.
Since Jessica met Diego he tore apart all her New Age beliefs. Her energy got very dark afterwards. She no longer believes in the Galactic Federation etc. All the New Age beliefs she had were all thrown in the toilet because of Diego. Who is Diego? Why did he target her when she was this so called Crystal child and New Age speaker? I question who Diego is connected with. He has many capabilities, has very little emotion when he speaks...like a Grey Alien. Who is the woman he speaks with that is not in physical. It's weird how since Jessica met him, she has become very dark. I'm not overly enthused about the New Age movement anymore as i see it turning into a religion. But still, there is something going on with Diego's influence over her and his abilities.

[wishinshow]

@transiten. Yes. Very strange. I have honestly never given the number 21, a moments thought in life, before now! Thank you for pointing it out.

[giovonni]

will share this here ...

Reply to Jessica Schab & her attacks on Teal Swan & others

Please note Gabriel is a friend of Teal's ~ He is a true wandering spirit
who travels the world in search of his own particular enlightenment... :)

Published on Dec 19, 2014

please note audio challenges due to windy conditions


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MxtP6gwfh4I

[Natalia]

Imo, putting people down is not the way forward.

I am a member of a few online vegan groups, quite a lot of them hate humans for eating meat and some feel that it's ok or good to bully them for doing so. I don't...

I am not going to take a side of either of these women...they both have light and darkness and speak some truths and are not perfect.

People will learn their lessons, in time.

[donk]

Not only did that guy STRENGTHEN my belief that THE WHOLE “SPIRITUAL MOVEMENT” is dangerous….I see a video of generalizations attempting to be used as “critical thoughts” about generalizations, and a lot of projections and strawmen…maybe that’s just me.

Then he dismisses the specifics he claims SHOULD be used for a valid argument, cuz he doesn’t have the time. He projects “nothing of substance” and his “lack of concern” for anything stated, accusing “the girl” of twisting an ominous tone. He then cherry picks something he felt was a non-issue, and so the other 6 hours are invalid.

Thanks for sharing that Gio…if I cared enough I would take him up on his offer and present some of what I found were “concerns” and specifics—substance that validate the argument. But his experience of “nothing stood out to him as being strange or dangerous” is obviously enough for anyone who wants to believe in her. And his demonstrating every single thing he claims to have an issue with will not be enough to sway the beliefs that I have.

No disrespect intended, but that wandering spirit may have fallen into the trap that I see and compelled me to contribute to this discussion…I mean, I don’t think I could have made a better case. This video is “solid proof” (as he pines for) that my concerns are valid…to me, anyway…

PS--I think Jessica's video was horrible, and nothing I have to say or feel really has anything to do with Jessica at all...it is funny how he defends Teal from her by doing exactly what he accuses her of. Obviously Cam, her feelings/story/being is irrelevant, dismissable, invalid....attack Jessica because her interviewee presented her experience that living with Teal was cult-like?

Text-book alt media celeb move. He'll make a good guru if his wanderings take him that way....I really hope Jessica takes him up on his offer for an interview. I'd love to see him do an appropriately-to-him-to-be-able-to-listen-to interview with Cam

[giovonni]

Donk (Phil)

i personally have enjoyed following Gabriel's travels for several years now ...

Note ... He walks the walk ... :thumb:

PS ~ just like i enjoy reading your post.

[donk]

I'm sure he's a great dude....but do you see what he did there? He talks about generalization and lack of substance....and then generalizes, gives no substance, and dismisses the only material (some girl he can't even name) of substance, cuz he ain't got time for all that.

But he has time to "address" Jessica for attacking "goddess gatherings" or whatever....focusing all of his energy on that crappy video Jessica made, which invalidates Cam's entire experience. If you communicate with him, maybe mention his "critical thinking" isn't perceived as much, at least from this critical thinker that agrees with his generalizations but suggests the substance he is looking for lies within that which he dismisses.

I can't imagine he got to the example he chose to bring up, without first passing over a DIRECT and more relevant example of the real issue (he likes to point out he looks for), which to me is "being a cult" like Cam accuses is a pretty good example of the extreme the danger inherent in "spiritual teachings" can lead down. After all, he lived there to.

There's plenty more horrific accusations that Cam makes about Teal's behavior. It's funny to me how easily he could prove his point by countering any of them with his own experience, instead he isn't concerned with any of that, only what jessicamystic says, even focusing on the generalization about the whole movement.

[giovonni]

Please note Gabriel is a friend of Teal's ~ He is a true wandering spirit
who travels the world in search of his own particular enlightenment... :)



Enough Said ... :)

[donk]

Indeed...but i think that he's the particular type of being like you and I and those like us who gather here...who knows that truth is love. I am just projecting again...my need to seek out the lies to myself, offering to be a mirror--showing him what I see.

Actually more accurately, using him in showing avalon what I see. Maybe he would benefit from seeing it? I personally think he wants to help Teal, at least from that one message I received that he transmitted. I don't think he is succeeding...but I am but one particular aspect as well, I may be wrong. But if he is honest about critical thought, it shouldn't hurt him (or his friends) to know that there are thoughts out there that interpret his words and actions as i have....I dont think I've ever had an original thought in my life so I am sure I am not alone.

This particular interaction has not been for me intending to help Teal, hurt Jessica, or even empower Cam, on a certain level....I am just doing as I've been compelled, as is my particular journey--look at myself, and everything else...from as many angles as I can. I see so many behaviors exhibited that I worked real hard on freeing myself from. I realize I am projecting...perhaps it benefits others? i feel like it's been good for me, so far.