Check Out New LED Household Lightbulbs! 82% Reduction In Wattage! Improved Lighting!

[sigma6]

TECHNOLOGY UPDATE: Florescent bulbs are now officially obsolete!

I recently mapped all the light bulbs and watt sizes in the house on a spreadsheet by room and floor (most were 23w fluorescent with a few 60 watt bulbs) and almost every other measure and spec I could think of... (available on post #12 ;-)

There is a new technology out there... some kind of modified LED light bulbs! They have a warmer light, lower wattage 11w lamp, 7w bulb and 5.5w candle in two socket sizes.

They give more light, the bulbs are more durable, and there is no mercury!!! [Correction: there is still some mercury! but these don't break easy like fluorescent] btw, these are not like those crappy LED flashlight bulbs. There was a $5 coupon per bulb, max 5 per visit promotion which came out to 3.38 per bulb after discount. I started with the 7w standard bulb, then realized they were so bright I could use the 5.5w candles for the hallways, basement, and porch and multiple socket light fixtures! I never ended up using the one 11w lamp style bulb I purchased!

No one even noticed the lighting difference! Everyone said they liked the light and had no problem, at first I didn't tell them the wattage, lest they bias it because I was replacing 23w florescent with 5.5w candle style bulbs with no problems everywhere! I ended up removing ALL the fluorescent and incandescent bulbs and replaced them 26 LED lightbulbs (kept going back to get the 5 max coupons per visit!) They give a brighter and warmer light than fluorescent even at the lower wattage!

I replaced 1044 watts with 178.5 watts (over 27 bulbs) according to my spreadsheet for a total cost $90 ($130 off in coupons) I bought an additional $50 testing different bulb combos and for spares. In the end I used fifteen 5.5 Candles, eight 7w standard bulbs, and three 5.5w candle small socket (bathroom and main hall chandelier) This is so amazing you have to check into it!

For example in the bathroom we have two of those lightbulb panels that run up and down on each side of the mirror and take those small socket candle bulbs. I didn't realize those bulbs can be 40 and 60 watts each. I found these bulbs were so bright I could replace four 40w candles with TWO 5.5 watt candle bulbs, which is safer because people were hitting the lower bulbs too! 160w replaced with 11w !!!

Brand Name "Luminus" http://conglom.com (Montreal, new website) They are promoting them through a Dollar store franchise ("Dollarama") here in Ontario. It's very smart. The store has a no refund policy but there appears to be a manufacturer's replacement warranty on the box (with receipt and proof of purchase (keep box lid)) One word of warning be careful when you buy the 5.5 candles because the box for the standard and small sockets looks exactly the same! But the box is clear plastic, you just have to be sure to look... (good thing I intended to buy spares!)

And the durability and rating is excellent. I dropped a couple and no problem, they seem to be one piece solid inside and they are rated for 15,000 hours for the 5.5w (dimmable) and 25,000 hrs for the 7w (non dimmable) So far as I can see it's all pluses!!

There is something amplifying the light being reflected like a piece of glass or crystal, shaped like a solid cylinder extending from the base of the socket... Very interesting bulb design,

Summary: 83% watt reduction, because I was replacing some 60w and one 75w. Mine averaged 6w a bulb. But that is amazing that is still a 75% reduction from a 23w fluorescent polluting nasty cold lightbulb! I did some tricks here, the main hall is a 3 socket and I only put one 5.5w small socket, which was better then the 60w replacement! Same for a 3 socket attic chandelier. I put two sockets in the bathroom, although it can hold 8, and was previously using four 40w small socket candle bulbs. I swear it is the same if not brighter, and a much "warmer" light

- 90 percent reduction in electrical pollution (guessing here)
- Removal of all mercury based fluorescent bulbs
- Durable one piece bulbs, (no filament to break)
- Long life 15,000 and 25000 hr rated (10 to 22 years based on 3hr per day)
- 5.5w candle standard and small socket = 350 lumens
- 7w standard bulb = 450 lumens
- 11w lamp style bulb = 800 lumens

[Ioneo]

The Japanese scientists that invented the LED have won the Nobel Prize in Physics this year.

[sigma6]

And just in time too... He certainly deserves it... my hats off to him, believe me you will be thanking me (kiddin' hahah) ...I will now have to thank this Japanese inventor! He (they) are single handedly saving the world billions and billions of watts overnight and it will generate some honest commerce too...

It's rare when you see something that is all plusses (knock on wood) It just makes your day brighter :rolleyes:

[Tangri]

I would like to see another chart on light spectrum other than power consumption. Human eyes optimize on specific wave band.
Are we going to able to see everything like on sun light?

Little hint: check(ask him if you can)it why David Icke have stocked piled old bulbs.

[jackovesk]

TECHNOLOGY UPDATE: Florescent bulbs are now officially obsolete!

I recently mapped all all the light bulbs and watt sizes in the house on a spreadsheet by room and floor (most were 23w fluorescent with a few 60 watt bulbs)

There is a new technology out there... some kind of modified LED light bulbs! They have a warmer light, lower wattage 11w lamp, 7w bulb and 5.5w candle in two socket sizes.

They give more light, the bulbs are more durable, and there is no mercury!!! btw, these are not like those crappy LED flashlight bulbs. There was a $5 coupon per bulb, max 5 per visit promotion which came out to 3.38 per bulb after discount. I started with the 7w standard bulb, then realized they were so bright I could use the 5.5w candles for the hallways, basement, and porch and multiple socket light fixtures! I never ended up using the one 11w lamp style bulb I purchased!

No one even noticed the lighting difference! Everyone said they liked the light and had no problem, at first I didn't tell them the wattage, lest they bias it because I was replacing 23w florescent with 5.5w candle style bulbs with no problems everywhere! I ended up removing ALL the fluorescent and incandescent bulbs and replaced them 26 LED lightbulbs (kept going back to get the 5 max coupons per visit!) They give a brighter and warmer light than fluorescent even at the lower wattage!

I replaced 1044 watts with 186 watts (over 26 bulbs) according to my spreadsheet for a total cost $90 ($130 off in coupons) I bought an additional $50 testing different bulb combos and for spares. In the end I used fifteen 5.5 Candles, eight 7w standard bulbs, and three 5.5w candle small socket (bathroom and main hall chandelier) This is so amazing you have to check into it!

For example in the bathroom we have two of those lightbulb panels that run up and down on each side of the mirror and take those small socket candle bulbs. I didn't realize those bulbs can be 40 and 60 watts each. I found these bulbs were so bright I could replace four 40w candles with TWO 5.5 watt candle bulbs, which is safer because people were hitting the lower bulbs too! 160w replaced with 11w !!!

Brand Name "Luminous" :They are promoting them through a Dollar store franchise ("Dollarama") here in Ontario. It's very smart. The store has a no refund policy but there appears to be a manufacturer's replacement warranty on the box (with receipt and proof of purchase (keep box lid)) One word of warning be careful when you buy the 5.5 candles because the box for the standard and small sockets looks exactly the same! But the box is clear plastic, you just have to be sure to look... (good thing I intended to buy spares!)

And the durability and rating is excellent. I dropped a couple and no problem, they seem to be one piece solid inside and they are rated for 15,000 hours for the 5.5w (dimmable) and 25,000 hrs for the 7w (non dimmable) So far as I can see it's all pluses!!

There is something amplifying the light being reflected like a piece of glass or crystal, shaped like a solid cylinder extending from the base of the socket... Very interesting bulb design,

Summary: 82% watt reduction, because I was replacing some 60w and one 75w. Mine averaged 6w a bulb. But that is amazing that is still a 75% reduction from a 23w fluorescent polluting nasty cold lightbulb! I did some tricks here, the main hall is a 3 socket and I only put one 5.5w small socket, which was better then the 60w replacement! Same for a 3 socket attic chandelier. I put two sockets in the bathroom, although it can hold 8, and was previously using four 40w small socket candle bulbs. I swear it is the same if not brighter, and a much "warmer" light

- 90 percent reduction in electrical pollution (guessing here)
- Removal of all mercury based fluorescent bulbs
- Durable one piece bulbs, (no filament to break)
- Long life 15,000 and 25000 hr rated (10 to 22 years based on 3hr per day)
- 5.5w candle standard and small socket = 350 lumens
- 7w standard bulb = 450 lumens
- 11w lamp style bulb = 800 lumens

Good stuff, btw you forgot to mention how much $Money your going to ((SAVE)) on your energy costs...:thumb:

PS - You can even buy LED (Grow-Lamps) if you know what I mean...:hat:

[ThePythonicCow]

I've been watching LED bulbs for several years now ... and buying them, in limited quantities, since I had to pay $30 or $40 for one of them. In past years, the light bulb display at Home Depot or Lowe's would have mostly fluorescent bulbs, with assorted old fashioned incandescent and a few expensive LED's. This week when I checked (for the first time in many months) the dominant bulb type on display was LED's, and there were a couple of additional LED displays on aisle ends. Many of the bulbs were for sale under $10.

LED has arrived, big time.

[Chilliburger]

Good stuff, btw you forgot to mention how much $Money your going to ((SAVE)) on your energy costs...

Yes what is the estimated energy saving? :ranger: haha

[Selene]

We recently switched over to LED bulbs in our dimmable kitchen floodlights and outdoor patio lights, and I’m very pleased with the results. You really can’t tell that they aren’t ordinary incandescent, and the bulbs I got (by Phillips and Kobi) were rated for 15 years use. I was sick of replacing the old bulbs every few months, and I’m planning on getting more. Bonus: the bulbs emit much less heat than incandescents or halogens.

Two secrets:

• Be sure to check the LED’s Color Temperature (Kelvin) number. If you want the “warm” look of regular incandescents, get the lowest number: 2700K. The higher the number, the “cooler” and more blue the light becomes. 3500K is considered “neutral” (like the Reveal lights) and 6500K is supposedly close to sunlight, but to my eye looks way too cold at night. Outdoors, a high, cool Kelvin number can even look a bit spooky.

• If you are replacing lights that are connected to a dimmer or rheostat, you may have to replace the old dimmer as well to get them to work properly. Also be sure you get the dimmable-type LED’s.

But they’re finally getting this right. And while LED’s are a bit pricey right now, I’m sure the cost will come down as production and competition ramps up. Even at today’s cost, they’ll save you money on electricity overall over their lifespan. Do it.

Here’s more on color temperature in LED’s http://www.seesmartled.com/kb/choosing_color_temperature/

And for Chiliburger, here’s an energy cost savings calculator: http://www.lumicrest.com/index.php?main_page=page&id=5

Cheers,

Selene

[Frank V]

The Japanese scientists that invented the LED have won the Nobel Prize in Physics this year.

Actually, they did not invent the LED in and of itself, but a much more efficient blue light LED than previously existed. ;-)

[GlassSteagallfan]

Are these the ones you mean?

http://www.alibaba.com/showroom/luminous-bulbs.html

[onawah]

Have they made LED Full Spectrum bulbs yet?
I still like these a lot: http://products.mercola.com/light-bulbs/
They aren't LED, but the light feels much more natural to me and my plants do really well with them.
Great for people (like me ) with Seasonal Affective Disorder, no mercury problem, economical, energy saving.

(NOT the same thing at all as the phony "full spectrum" bulbs that are just coated with some kind of lavender colored stuff, BTW.

[sigma6]

Good stuff, btw you forgot to mention how much $Money your going to ((SAVE)) on your energy costs...

PS - You can even buy LED (Grow-Lamps) if you know what I mean...

A couple notes: I am assuming that these are the latest LED bulbs on the market (thus the promotion, which caught my attention)

Energy Upgrade - Lightbulb (Lumens) Analysis.xls
http://www.4shared.com/office/zV12dbdeba/Energy_Upgrade_-_Lightbulb_Ana.html

I can only share my data, but I think it represents a solid example. It's based on an upstairs unit apt in a house with 3 meters so it doesn't include the main flr or basement units, but I did change all publicly accessible lighting, ie. hallways, stairwells, basement, porch, etc. And some of those areas are assigned to the other units (so they will be saving)

Consider the following, I replaced 1044 watts with 178.5 watts!!! That means if I turned on all the lights at the same time it would be consuming 1044 watts spread over 34 bulbs, which is not really bad at all in the first place! Now considering that was spread over 34 bulbs originally, I replaced 29 of those bulbs with 27 bulbs, so there is now 31 bulbs consuming 178.5 watts (again if I turned on all the lights at the same time!) (see spreadsheet for specifics)

Now that is a phenomenal result considering that it is an overall improvement in lighting from what I could see! That I could still get a reduction of another 858 watts going from mostly fluorescent in the first place! i.e. if you went from from 45 and 60 watt bulbs I imagine you'd be in the 80 to 90% reduction range! which is pretty much off the charts.

Of those 31 bulbs we use about 120 watts based on my spreadsheet which represents about 20 bulbs. So I would assign a number of about 90% of the time... since the others are for hallways and basement, and motion activated etc...) The corresponding original wattage based on that 120 watts (actually 124) was originally 587 watts. So technically I would say 587 down to 124. And amazingly that still averages almost 6 watts per bulb (6.2 watts per bulb) and the reduction is still 78.87%! So the numbers are pretty robust.

I think the savings will be a reduction of easily 75 to 80% of your original lighting cost. Based on switching out from 23 watt fluorescents bulbs, to 7 and 5.5w LEDs. Which was the bulk of what I did. How much money is that?... I don't know, but I know it's going to be 80% cheaper whatever the cost of lighting was last month, on average, and from here on out... And I'd rather put the money in the bulbs up front, then pay extra hydro as you go, and long term, it is will accumulate savings on autopilot... that is peace of mind... (and what price can you put on that?... plus the other factors I list make it a no brainer... the biggest thing was getting rid of mercury based fluorescents and the electromagnetic pollution I heard they create.)

I can pull all these numbers, because I created a colour coded spreadsheet (that I included at the bottom link) that breaks down every bulb, location, wattage, type etc, before and after. With very little modification you could easily use this to do your own home/apt.

As for light quality, all I can say is that I find it overall to be the same or better, there were a couple of places where it was slightly dimmer, i.e. I replaced a couple of "left over" incandescent bulbs in the storage area of the basement, which was really more light than needed, since it is hardly ever frequented... but it still made sense to replace them just to get rid of the incandescent bulbs, since how many times do people sometimes leave the lights on?!! So to go from 60 to 5.5 is killer! (90.167% reduction!) It was a little dimmer but not bad at all, still excellent lighting.

Now because of the responses, I just looked up the lumens value for 60 watt incandescent and 23 watt fluorescent bulbs. And I am not sure if that reflects my experience or even makes sense! I am getting that the lumens for a 60 watt incandescent is 700 to 900 (800 average?) And the 23watt fluorescent is 1600 lumens? Which doesn't make any sense to me at all (unless I read that wrong) because I always felt a 23 watt fluorescent felt like less light then a 60 watt incandescent? But maybe because I have so few uses of the 60 watt I have forgotten? So now I am really confused on that part (glad I didn't look that up first!) I know that no one noticed or had any problem with any of the bulb changes when I asked them about it or mentioned it to them...

i.e. That tells me then that lumens isn't necessarily the best measure? For example in one room I put three 7w bulbs in a chandelier and it looked fine, then I tried three 5.5. candle bulbs and it still looked good so I said "heck I will shave the 4.5 watts again!" So sometimes it was just slightly dimmer, but the "quality" of the light was excellent. So I guess you can't go by lumens alone, and I am guessing from using fluorscent bulbs for so long I may have got used to less brightness than typical 60 watts bulbs? (or is that the other way around, but it can't be that much difference, because you'd think it would be more memorable. I just know I did buy one 11 watt lamp. And just never felt the need to use it, so I am now thinking that I have just got used to living with less brightness :O.

I'd say if you are a super bright person (I guess I am not...) Then you still have the option of the 11 watt "lamp" style bulbs rated at 800 lumens, but I found the the 7w standard bulb style a more then adequate replacement for a 60 watt bulb. and in many instances I was using the 5.5 watt candle bulbs especially for utility areas like stairwells and hallways and definitely multiple socket light fixtures. So there is a subjective light quality issue. I did notice on the box, besides the wattage and lumens value, it had a chart that showed "warmth" and all these bulbs are skewed to the warm light side...

The key is the spreadsheet I don't think I could calculate it more unless I literally measured how many minutes I turned on each light over a period of months, and averaged it, etc... and as much as I love spread sheets, I ain't that anal-retentive! I can just say, the first batch I was skeptical. But I remember the girl at the counter saying how people were coming back for more... And after I checked out these bulbs and installed them myself, I could see why... and the $5 coupons (they put a stack of tear offs right on the shelf with the bulbs) are irresistible.

With very little modification you can use this spreadsheet I created. If you are comfortable with Excel (2003) spreadsheets. This will definitely save you some time. You will see by looking at it, how "into it" I got... lol... I literally put every piece of data that I could find and integrated it into this spreadsheet! So if you study it, there is almost every angle you can look at... except light spectrum... (and that could be an angle, there always has to be an angle somewhere...) But overall I am still quite pleased with the actual results... Especially I am thinking of the electromagnetic pollution that I must have surely removed by removing so many fluorescent bulbs. This may be purely subjective, and I have no way of measuring it, but I really think it more subdued as well, but that could just be because I am thinking I removed all this electrical "pollution".... : ) 120 watts if I turned on every light! hahahh!!!

And I installed 26 bulbs at a cost of $90. and spent another $50
on spares! So I'm good for the next 10 years easy :D

Energy Upgrade - Lightbulb Analysis.xls
http://www.4shared.com/office/zV12dbdeba/Energy_Upgrade_-_Lightbulb_Ana.html






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[Nick Matkin]

I was at a meeting where the group was discussing the sort of stuff we discuss here, conspiracies, etc.

Someone I assumed to be of at least average intelligence said he wouldn't use any of these new low-energy bulbs because he'd opened one up to discover it full of electronic components in the base. And in true conspiracy-believer style he said it was 'obviously' either a spying or mind-control device and that's why the government wants us all to change over to these things. (FFS!!)

For other conspiratorially minded people, I can assure you that the components are there to change the AC mains voltage to be appropriate for operating the LED (or compact fluorescent) lamp.

Some people... :frusty:

Nick

[MorningFox]

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-MXNOrUN5rNg/UY_U9mYAJtI/AAAAAAAAA0I/2iekxjiXMm4/s1600/cfl_dees.jpg

[sigma6]

.
(calculations based on 3hrs/day, 365 days per year, (11¢/KW hr)
I think a more realistic average might be 6hrs/day...
in that case just double your costs and savings numbers...
Brand Name is Luminus
Website: http://conglom.com (out of Montreal)
looks like a limited time introductory promotion (so I jumped on it!)


5.5w candle bulb (compared to 40 watt incandescent)
Cost savings = $56 savings per bulb (over 13 years, 11¢/KW hr)
Estimated cost = $0.66 per year
i.e. 5.5watts x 3hrs = 16.5 watts
16.5watts x 365 days = 6022.5 watts per year
6022.5 divided by 1000 = 6.0225 KW hrs
6.0225 x 11¢/KW hr = 66.25¢ of electricity per year!

(or $1.32 based on 6hrs use per day! and a savings of $112 per bulb over 13 years)
10 bulbs replaced would save $1120 (over 13 years!)
20 bulbs replaced would save $2240.
30 bulbs replaced would save $3360.

Life span: 13 years, 15,000 hrs
Warmth: 2700 K
Dimmable
7.42 + .96 (13% tax) - 5.00 (instore Coupon) = 3.38!



7w standard bulb (compared to "similar brightness" 50 watt??)
Cost savings: = $91 per bulb, over 22 years (11¢/KW hr)
Estimated cost = $0.84 per year,

Life span: 22 years, 25,000 hrs (based on same specs above)
Warmth: 3000 K
Non dimmable
7.42 + .96 (13% tax) - 5.00 (instore Coupon) = 3.38!



11w lamp style bulb (compared to 60 watt incandescent)
Cost savings = $122.50 per bulb (over 22 years, 10¢/KW hr)
Estimated cost = $1.32 per year

Life span: 22 years, 25,000 hrs (same specs above)
Efficiency: 72 lumens per watt
Warmth: 3000 K
Dimmable
7.42 + .96 (13% tax) - 5.00 (instore Coupon) = 3.38!





This is a now outdated chart comparing fluorescent to incandescent... I think CFL bulbs are history... LED will totally completely replace them when the costs come down low enough...
Fluorescent Light Efficiency Versus Incandescent
http://nemesis.lonestar.org/reference/electricity/fluorescent/efficiency.html

[sigma6]

I was at a meeting where the group was discussing the sort of stuff we discuss here, conspiracies, etc.

Someone I assumed to be of at least average intelligence said he wouldn't use any of these new low-energy bulbs because he'd opened one up to discover it full of electronic components in the base. And in true conspiracy-believer style he said it was 'obviously' either a spying or mind-control device and that's why the government wants us all to change over to these things. (FFS!!)

For other conspiratorially minded people, I can assure you that the components are there to change the AC mains voltage to be appropriate for operating the LED (or compact fluorescent) lamp.

Some people... :frusty:

Nick

I wouldn't totally knock it, there is stuff going on with frequency and that is very controllable with digital electronic components, I do think they are doing that with television, they can choose what frequencies that these things operate, and you have to ask who decides that and based on what criteria and how does that compare to known biological existing frequencies... I would be willing to look at more information along these lines... It would have to be very well done with lots of context and reference...

I watch very, very little television, if any at all these days...

[sigma6]

We recently switched over to LED bulbs in our dimmable kitchen floodlights and outdoor patio lights, and I’m very pleased with the results. You really can’t tell that they aren’t ordinary incandescent, and the bulbs I got (by Phillips and Kobi) were rated for 15 years use. I was sick of replacing the old bulbs every few months, and I’m planning on getting more. Bonus: the bulbs emit much less heat than incandescents or halogens.

Two secrets:
• Be sure to check the LED’s Color Temperature (Kelvin) number. If you want the “warm” look of regular incandescents, get the lowest number: 2700K. The higher the number, the “cooler” and more blue the light becomes. 3500K is considered “neutral” (like the Reveal lights) and 6500K is supposedly close to sunlight, but to my eye looks way too cold at night. Outdoors, a high, cool Kelvin number can even look a bit spooky.

• If you are replacing lights that are connected to a dimmer or rheostat, you may have to replace the old dimmer as well to get them to work properly. Also be sure you get the dimmable-type LED’s.

But they’re finally getting this right. And while LED’s are a bit pricey right now, I’m sure the cost will come down as production and competition ramps up. Even at today’s cost, they’ll save you money on electricity overall over their lifespan. Do it.

Here’s more on color temperature in LED’s http://www.seesmartled.com/kb/choosing_color_temperature/
And for Chiliburger, here’s an energy cost savings calculator: http://www.lumicrest.com/index.php?main_page=page&id=5
Cheers,
Selene

You can come down to my store Selene it's a great sale... : ) Also you make a good point...where is the efficiency coming from? You nailed it, these bulbs give off almost no heat, I can touch my 7w I'm using right now and I can barely detect any heat coming off it... that translates into super high efficiency... compare that to an incandescent or fluorescent, too hot to touch, as in easy bake oven burn your hand off too hot! All that heat energy is just evaporating into the air... more plusses!

[Nick Matkin]

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-MXNOrUN5rNg/UY_U9mYAJtI/AAAAAAAAA0I/2iekxjiXMm4/s1600/cfl_dees.jpg

The frequency shown for these items is almost entirely wrong.

Mains incandescent bulbs (second image) flicker at 100 Hz (2x50 Hz mains frequency) in Europe and most of the world and 120 Hz (2x60 Hz mains frequency) in North America. The reading of 350 Hz is nonsense - how did they get that? Even if their machine gave that reading, surely they had someone technically competent who realised this is wrong and wanted to know what it was really measuring?

Point of fact: The mains frequency of 50 or 60 Hz was decided upon in the very early days of AC distribution as a compromise between efficiency of distribution, size of mains transformers and perceptibility of incandescent bulb flicker - lighting is what early mains electricity was primarily used for. It could have been anywhere between about 30 Hz and 150 Hz - there is nothing special about the actual frequencies finally chosen. (If you want to directly effect people's brains, you need to go well below 30 Hz.)

LEDs operate on DC only, and although rectified DC from AC may have residual flicker, 230 Hz obviously is wrong. It's not even a multiple of any mains frequency!

The frequency for compact fluorescent may be correct is some circumstances as they contain a circuit to increase mains voltage to strike the gas and illuminate the phosphor. But the frequencies are usually much higher than that shown in the third image, usually above 40,000 Hz and not particularly stable, so the frequency given of 26,740 Hz is suspicious.

Some people are affected by the harsh spectrum of new types of lighting. Some people are also more sensitive to flicker which was rarely if ever a problem with traditional incandescent lighting. But the graphic is about something else, but I have no idea what!

What are those meters supposed to be reading anyway? I'm assuming it's electromagnetic radiation, in which case my arguments still stand.

The original image seems to have been copied for use by various alternative natural health websites. It's a pity none of them had anyone with sufficient savvy who might question the authenticity of this 'technical' graphic, despite them using it on their websites.

Nick

[MorningFox]

What are those meters supposed to be reading anyway? I'm assuming it's electromagnetic radiation


Yes. It says so on the graphic. The same kind of harmful radiation that cell phones give off. It's an EMF reader

What are you talking about? :wacko:

[Ahnung-quay]

I also get tired of changing light bulbs and I've been slowly switching to LED's. I'm all for reducing my electric bill. I hope that the price continues to come down.

There are also battery operated LED tea lights that can be used in place of candles. They make great outdoor lanterns using paper bags as holders and can also be used indoors in place of candles. Great for winter solstice celebrations.

[Carmody]

The biggest issue with LED or CFL bulbs is the quality of the given electrolytic capacitors in the design and execution of the given unit.

This will determine it's lifespan, to a large degree.

Mounting them in closed spaces or upside down, with the base at the top, causes the electronics and thus the capacitor to suffer from increased thermal stressing.

Heat ages the capacitors fast. If the capacitors are not of premium design and origin, then the unit will fail due to this aspect.

The vast majority of all CFL and LED lights do NOT, I repeat, do NOT have premium quality electrolytic capacitors in their miniaturized electronic drive circuitry.

The one change in capacitor quality will easily cut the failure rate by ~4x to 10x, and extend the lifespan of the bulb by ~4x to 10x.

Buying by price is NO guarantee whatsoever, of the given capacitor quality. The odds are very low of any of them using premium capacitors in their drive circuits, as that might raise the cost of the given unit by 10 or 15 cents!

Think of the cheap components as a guarantee that you'll be back buying more. A way for the manufacturer to be sure you'll be back again.

I'd wager the vast majority of CF bulbs die due to this 'cheap capacitor' that is inside their drive circuits.

I expect the same to be true of LED lighting systems.

You are being screwed at every turn by all these companies, in any way they can. But then again, the world buys by price and has no concept of what is inside the given black box (electronics, etc). The lowest common denominator wins again.

Premium design and origin of a capacitor, has to do with the specific manufacturer, there is no 'range' of designs. There are companies with the expertise and history, and those who do not have this skill and lore. There are MAYBE 10 different brands or corporations in that field (in the world) that can 'do it right'.

I'd practically bet my life that none of those brands of capacitors are being used in ANY of those LED bulbs..and if they are ..they are likely (over 50% probability) to be fakes.

It is important to understand that the optimistic numbers on the lifespan of a CF bulb or a LED bulb are purely a projection of the theoretical and optimum aspects, with the electronics being considered as 'perfect and failure free'.

This is not true, and is very much the case with the LED bulbs. In what is expected to be a near 100% of the LED bulb failure cases, it is the drive electronics and specifically the electrolytic capacitors that will be the culprit.

[Nick Matkin]

What are those meters supposed to be reading anyway? I'm assuming it's electromagnetic radiation


Yes. It says so on the graphic. The same kind of harmful radiation that cell phones give off. It's an EMF reader

What are you talking about? :wacko:

What am I talking about? I'm talking about the silly frequencies their frequency counter is displaying. It is not an EMF meter; an EMF meter measures the intensity not frequency of an electromagnetic field.

Like I said, the numbers bare no relation to the frequencies generated by any of those lamps, with the possible exception of the CFL.

Unfortunately I couldn't find the technical specification for that particular PeakTech frequency counter on the web (and the model number at the top right is far too indistinct), but most handheld counters are very insensitive below about 10 kHz. Most don't operate at all below that frequency unless there's a direct connection and it is designed to work at such low frequencies.

I therefore suspect it is picking up spurious readings because the actual 'radiation' is far too weak for that device to detect. I also suspect it's being used by someone who doesn't really understand the limitations of what they are trying to do.

Nick

[Carmody]

What are those meters supposed to be reading anyway? I'm assuming it's electromagnetic radiation


Yes. It says so on the graphic. The same kind of harmful radiation that cell phones give off. It's an EMF reader

What are you talking about? :wacko:

What am I talking about? I'm talking about the silly frequencies their frequency counter is displaying. It is not an EMF meter; an EMF meter measures the intensity not frequency of an electromagnetic field.

Like I said, the numbers bare no relation to the frequencies generated by any of those lamps, with the possible exception of the CFL.

Unfortunately I couldn't find the technical specification for that particular PeakTech frequency counter on the web (and the model number at the top right is far too indistinct), but most handheld counters are very insensitive below about 10 kHz. Most don't operate at all below that frequency unless there's a direct connection and it is designed to work at such low frequencies.

I therefore suspect it is picking up spurious readings because the actual 'radiation' is far too weak for that device to detect. I also suspect it's being used by someone who doesn't really understand the limitations of what they are trying to do.

Nick

Yes, that is in the area of concern, as first questions would go ---for an educated observer. The reality of the situation should be elucidated by the given researcher. Ie, that the first or primary potentials for error be covered within the exhibition of the test itself.

[avid]

I received an interesting video today re GU10 LED spotlight:
keaE7QTKTYE

My soon-to-be-ex partner - who does CE testing, was given this video, and said they condemned loads of these Chinese imports last year. So be warned - don't buy dirt-cheap LEDs via ebay. A greatly informing video.

This also explains the daft 'mind-controlling' gizmos that Nick referred to in an earlier post - regarding suspicious folk. These components make the light work, but in a safe way in most cases! We live and learn.....

[sigma6]

I would like to see another chart on light spectrum other than power consumption. Human eyes optimize on specific wave band.
Are we going to able to see everything like on sun light?

Little hint: check(ask him if you can)it why David Icke have stocked piled old bulbs.

Tangri David Icke stockpiling incandescents is the dumbest thing I have ever heard...
1) it shows he literally has money to burn... (doesn't look good)
update: it just sounds half baked!...

2) incandescents bulbs are like destined to break and fail... period, it's just absolutely nutty, what a waste, and it's no longer necessary...
3) what for? the full spectrum issue?... update: any other bulbs can provide that... see below...

4) another post suggests (or refutes...) the possibility of frequency manipulation, this has potential validity imo, but may be beyond the scope of this thread... but if it is, it would have to be coordinated and sanctioned from higher up... I could see this happening more in the US, I wonder if a Canadian company new to the market, would be automatically involved? then again this would be controlled at the engineering regulatory level (where they would definitely infiltrate) ie. "regulators"... ???

re: full spectrum
The issue of full light spectrum is viable, but one can buy full spectrum fluorescents, see (Mercola's full spectrum fluorescent bulbs) but I think that whole idea of fluorescent is OVER! That's what this thread is about... I see a viable product that could completely obsolete the market for incandescent AND fluorescent. Once this market matures with competition and lower prices, full spectrum bulbs would be a no brainer, if these guys are smart they could make them now (even if there is extra cost, which I don't see, given they can control "warmth" wattage, lumens and everything else...) but even if... they could make it to market first and secure position... Otherwise we as consumers have to shout a little louder...

Regarding frequency that could be an issue now or in the future and the only way to do that is to voice our concerns with scientific support, which in turn could push for which frequencies should be allowed/avoided. That would have to be legislated, I see that more a threat in the future (valid point, not the focus, but I'm glad it was brought up, ie. no data right now... :-(

Otherwise, and with all due respect to David, but what the hell is on about?... you mean to say he never explained it?

[MorningFox]

Hahaha @ money to burn stockpiling light bulbs.

Get real.

[sigma6]

Hahaha @ money to burn stockpiling light bulbs.

Get real.

Do you know how many he is buying?

[ThePythonicCow]

From Know your LEDs: Light-Emitting Diode Bulbs Set to Go Mainstream in Households Globally (TheEnergyCollective.com, December 17, 2013) (http://theenergycollective.com/jimpierobon/317661/know-your-leds-light-emitting-diode-bulbs-set-go-mainstream-households-globally):

~~~~~~~~~~~~~







http://theenergycollective.com/sites/theenergycollective.com/files/imagepicker/48356/image002.jpg
Here is how LEDs are projected to become a bigger share global household lighting sales 2012 - 2021. CREDIT: IHS, Inc.
IHS Inc. research analysts Stephanie Pruitt and Stewart Shinkwin forecast that sales of LED lamp bulbs (shapes A17 – A21) will grow significantly each year until they are the most shipped technology of those shapes in 2019. They predict global sales of all types of LEDs will grow from about $3.6 billion in 2013 to slightly more than $7 billion in 2016.

Durham, NC-based Cree, Inc. effectively launched a consumer price war over LEDs in the U.S. this past April [2013]. With their TV ads leading the way, one competitor after another is responding. Because LEDs have such longer useful lives, each consumer purchase today is one less purchase in the market for a long time. The starting gun has sounded.

After hovering just under $20 for years, one could find Cree’s 40- and 60-watt equivalent bulbs with dimmable “soft white” lighting at Home Depot this month at or close to $5.97. Its 65-watt equivalent, soft white, indoor flood bulbs is almost sure to go drop toward $10. The same seems in store for the company’s just-announced 75-watt equivalent soft white bulb which is due to reach stores in the U.S. in February [2014]. All these prices are without utility rebates.


http://theenergycollective.com/sites/theenergycollective.com/files/imagepicker/48356/Photo%202%20light%20bulb%20aisle%20Home%20Depot%20Northern%20Virginia%20Dec.%202013,%20CREDIT%20Jim% 20Pierobon.jpg
So many choices: This aisle dedicated to household light bulbs at a Home Depot in northern Virginia is about 100 feet long. CREDIT: Jim Pierobon
At this writing, the race for market share in the U.S. and other countries appears to be primarily between Cree and Philips.

[sigma6]

Reboot...

"Marketing Analysis"

I think a $5-$10 LED bulb is totally legit after 10 years of seeing if people will bite the higher price. all the research, prefab, tooling is in place... marketing, and promotion is now entering the picture... am I taking a "risk"? sure... (I didn't even read the box!) I did it more from (intuitively) analyzing the marketing approach being used. My first purchase was a total "risk" of $16.92 This is basically selling at cost... just checked their website, and it's not fully developed yet, this looks like a forward looking ambitious company in Montreal... with a background in trucking (logistics) and vertically integrating into product distribution, and they have a professional marketing team somewhere. Few companies would consider distributing at cost themselves (without someone outside goading them to do it!...)

Now, if these were crap, who would allow all this production, manufacturing, wholesaling and distribution just to make no profit and piss off a bunch of people? who would complain how they got ripped off because their bulbs failed 6 to 12 months? This is obviously not the case.

Mind you, did I do all this analysis before hand? Nope, I just picked up a few observations, the store type, the product, the method of distribution, even the off hand comment of the counter girl (great unbiased observation!...) the low key promotion, I tried the product, and was immediately impressed... and so far my assessment is still the same... further analysis (i.e observations) regarding the company and the warranty actually support my original "intuition"... i.e. this just "seeing what they doing" by understanding fundamental of sales and marketing... and how it comes into play when I come across a product display in a "Dollar Store"

I also did a little research on this "Dollar" Store as well and it is actually a corporation "masquerading" as local Dollar Store, in fact they too are a savvy marketing distribution oriented company in their own right. They obviously see the profit in the "Dollar Store" market and have taken it "all the way" And they must be doing well because they have exploded across Ontario at the very least, and they are NOT taking public investment... hmm....

like I said ... I see all pluses ; ) (If you want full spectrum maybe you can make a special room for that... just in case, as the jury is still out, but bring me some more research!

So I'd say Carmody is a wee tad negative (why do I get the feeling he has a garage full of fluorescent light bulbs?... LOL...) (and dont feel bad I just threw out 30 perfectly good fluorescent bulbs!) I'm saying anyone who is in the vicinity, and be on the look out, they may have other distributors, but I think they are trying to underplay the warranty via this particular channel of distribution, "Dollar store" customers don't tend to keep their receipts, which I thought was a stunning brilliant angle..

And not that this particular demographic of customers is even aware they are in a corporate privately owned franchise... (all the more brilliant) but even if they are hip to all this... a legitimate 3 year manufacturer's warranty is in place (keep the box!) ... i.e. these guys are also recognizing smart consumers and serving them as well... although a bit discreet, the box is hard to read, they ARE playing fair (gee, why does this remind me of the multiple hidden venues of the legal matrix... hmm....)



Point is, there is unlimited amounts of information and data to collect, process and interpret... when it comes to "sales and marketing" I am not consciously doing anything... it is all intuitive... but I don't mind double checking my own logic every once in a while :D (worth the exercise...)


I see business intelligence at work... what do you see? ~O.o





Recap:
So as not to get distracted: (and additional summary...)

Brand Name is Luminus (mispelled it earlier)
Website: http://conglom.com (out of Montreal)
This looks like a limited time introductory promotion (so I jumped on it!)
Also I checked the box, there is a warranty for 3 years, and the price I am getting
is marketing discounted $5. I think as another post has reiterated these bulbs have been in market for almost 10 years, and like Blue Ray DVD, isn't exactly taking off... who the hell would buy a $40 light bulb today?


- 82% watt reduction
- equal or improved lighting quality
- eliminates all fluorescent bulb electrical "pollution"
- removal of mercury based fluorescent (does contain some mercury)
- durable bulb, no fragile filament to break
- long life 15,000 to 25,000 hrs or 13 years and 22 years
- discreet, "partially hidden" 3 year warranty policy - buyer beware! ;.)
- zero heat waste, high efficiency

and did I mention... it's $5 off!! (lol)
(and that's a marketing promotional based discount i.e. again smart marketing, instead of paying overpriced, overhyped media advertising, why not pass on the marketing cost by investing it in the consumer! i.e. this is temporary and not going to last, although it could lay the ground work for an expanding consumer base in the future (it sure worked for me!) which should lead to even lower prices...
- the $5 to $8 bulbs are definitely here.

More specs off box...
5.5w candle bulb (compared to 40 watt incandescent)
Cost savings = $56 savings per bulb (over 13 years, 11¢/KW hr)
Estimated cost = $0.66 per year
i.e. 5.5watts x 3hrs = 16.5 watts
16.5watts x 365 days = 6022.5 watts per year
6022.5 divided by 1000 = 6.0225 KW hrs
6.0225 x 11¢/KW hr = 66.25¢ of electricity per year!

(or $1.32 based on 6hrs use per day! and a savings of $112 per bulb over 13 years)
10 bulbs replaced would save $1120 (over 13 years!)
20 bulbs replaced would save $2240.
30 bulbs replaced would save $3360.

Life span: 13 years, 15,000 hrs
Warmth: 2700 K
Dimmable
7.42 + .96 (13% tax) - 5.00 (instore Coupon) = 3.38!



7w standard bulb (compared to "similar brightness" 50 watt??)
Cost savings: = $91 per bulb, over 22 years (11¢/KW hr)
Estimated cost = $0.84 per year,

Life span: 22 years, 25,000 hrs (based on same specs above)
Warmth: 3000 K
Non dimmable
7.42 + .96 (13% tax) - 5.00 (instore Coupon) = 3.38!



11w lamp style bulb (compared to 60 watt incandescent)
Cost savings = $122.50 per bulb (over 22 years, 10¢/KW hr)
Estimated cost = $1.32 per year

Life span: 22 years, 25,000 hrs (same specs above)
Efficiency: 72 lumens per watt
Warmth: 3000 K
Dimmable
7.42 + .96 (13% tax) - 5.00 (instore Coupon) = 3.38!




generic fluorescent bulb comparison (which I think is now obsolete...)
Fluorescent Light Efficiency Versus Incandescent
http://nemesis.lonestar.org/referenc...fficiency.html

[ThePythonicCow]

A key metric of light bulbs is lumens per watt - how much light is produced per watt of electricity.

Mass produced household fluorescent bulbs, such as this GE 65 watt equivalent (http://amazon.com/dp/B001RTSQBS) are producing about 63 lumens per watt (getting 825 lumens out of 13 watts.) They retail for about 3 $US per bulb.

The Switch Infinia LED 60 watt equivalent (http://www.earthled.com/products/switch-infinia-10-watt-800-lumen-60-watt-equal-dimmable-a19-led) in the lamp beside me gets 80 lumens per watt (getting 800 lumens out of 10 watts.) They feature silicon liquid cooling, which allows using them in enclosed fixtures. They retail for 12 or 13 $US per bulb (when in stock - I can't find them right now.)

Currently Cree LED 60 watt equivalents (http://amazon.com/dp/B00DLI7TXO ) are providing 84 lumens per watt (800 lumens out of 9.5 watts, and selling for just under 10 $US per bulb. They are very widely available, in both major retail stores (such as Home Depot and Lowe's) and online (Amazon).

Currently Philips LED bulbs are going head-to-head with Cree in efficiency, price and availability.

Next year Philips expects to be up to 100 lumens per watt: Philips LED Light Bulb Will Be More Efficient Than Best Fluorescents On The Market, Company Says (Huffington Post) (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/04/11/philips-led-light-bulb-lightbulb_n_3060614.html).

[sigma6]

I think after 10 years of manufacturing, hardware design has matured, ie. this as non issue... maybe why promotions are coming on line, you don't waste marketing dollars on crap... if the product is there, then this is too widescale, this is a long term consumable product market unfolding, that clearly intends (and will) replace fluorescent bulbs... there is too much on the line to have low standards...

"Conglom.com" isn't even be the manufacturer, they look more like a wholesaler, with distribution, logistics and marketing support.

This approach looks to be attempting a fast and wide market penetration. I'm just taking advantage of their promotion! It more than meets my needs, I never even used my 11w bulb! At this price I could buy more outlets, lamps or multi socket fixtures.

Also what is the difference between $0.66 a year vs say... $0.56 a year?
When you can buy the bulb today at $3.38 with a 3 year warranty as compared to say, $10, $20, $30 (these prices are history too I'll bet) Last I checked, that's called a bargain... (if you're in Canada for now... but I would be on the look out...)

now that the "odd skeptics" here and there are making me rearticulate and validate my own logic... I see an incredible combination of product marketing distribution that fairly screams out, a very well thought out, well planned, and well executed marketing strategy... with deep pockets.

How long will it last?... I think as long and as many of these bulbs they can get installed in as many homes as they can afford, this is a long term strategy folks, and that is where we can benefit. They will literally have to wait years to recoup their costs,

Then again, how do we know there hasn't been a huge technological breakthrough that has drastically reduced the prices (...we don't!)

also... EVERY country and market makes crap for dumb consumers, it's still a viable market unfortunately... but that is a consumer education problem just as much a moral issue... and usually these same companies also make quality brand name products right beside it... Even Intel did it with their Celeron "budget cpus" (still unbelievable to me...) but this is mixing topics and misleading...

That's why they have warranties... i.e. there's still no substitute for common sense...

[778 neighbour of some guy]

Sigh, long lasting energy saving LEDs to make the oil stockpiles last longer and sell you more planned obsolescence cars and appliances, they want every cent we earn, I would like to see some good quality CHEAP grow lights though, those would go a long way to make us more food independent year round, the sort of grow lights that are so efficient you can run them for a week on a single deep cycle battery charge and charge the battery at the same time with a small 100 dollar solar panel, if that happens I will be eating from my indoor walls in three months time.

[avid]

I was glad that my folks' stockpiled ye olde lightbulbs, but not when I discovered they were 100w, I wanted 40w and 60w. Now that the house will be rewired, to take loads of leds, I'll not throw these out. I'm sure folks will still use these olde bulbs. Don't want them to go to waste! However, 3 x 60w in an enclosed glass light fitting shot the wiring in the house!!! Got to get house now all rewired, replumbed, and a gas supply to get rid of ancient oil boiler. It's winter soon, so got to get my act together! When I look at programmes such as 'Grand Designs', they are inspirational, but not ceiling-cost-effective!!! Exciting times ahead, and cowboy builders beware!

[ThePythonicCow]

The Switch Infinia LED 60 watt equivalent (http://www.earthled.com/products/switch-infinia-10-watt-800-lumen-60-watt-equal-dimmable-a19-led) in the lamp beside me gets 80 lumens per watt (getting 800 lumens out of 10 watts.) They feature silicon liquid cooling, which allows using them in enclosed fixtures. They retail for 12 or 13 $US per bulb (when in stock - I can't find them right now.)
Here is break down of this Switch Infinia 60. The LED's themselves are liquid cooled, however the power and control electronics, including the electrolytic capacitor, are not liquid cooled. So I suspect that Carmody, and electronupdate, the producer of this and other fine break downs of LED bulbs, would agree ... that capacitor will be the highest failure rate item, especially if the bulb is used inside a closure, upside down (with the capacitor on the high side.)

That might be why Switch went to a higher temp spec capacitor (120 degrees instead of 105 degrees) and limits the commercial warranty to 3 years. The lifetime warranty on home use means little, as few home users ever bother to return something after they've had it for a couple of years. Businesses are more likely to track such warranty coverage.
cLiOh68fCrs

[sigma6]

However, 3 x 60w in an enclosed glass light fitting shot the wiring in the house!!! Got to get house now all rewired,

Exactly that is another problem solved by these bulbs, you could have installed three 7w bulbs that would provide ample light, reduce 180w down to 21w and there would almost no heat... (hindsight is 20/20... I know, I know...) some light fixture designs make me think they must be the same companies selling light bulbs!... lol...

Anyhow I didn't put this into the conspiracy section, cause I don't quite see the "boogie man" here yet... LOL! This is just the latest technology finally piping through the manufacturing and distribution channel... I'd be grateful...


Btw has anyone ever dropped an incandescent bulb? or looked at how brown the ceramics get on old fluorescent?... No heat means less degradation... this is too simple...

[sigma6]

That might be why Switch went to a higher temp spec capacitor (120 degrees instead of 105 degrees) and limits the commercial warranty to 3 years. The lifetime warranty on home use means little, as few home users ever bother to return something after they've had it for a couple of years. Businesses are more likely to track such warranty coverage.

The reason why no one would exercise a warranty is maybe because they were too stupid to read it and keep the receipts, proof of product... this only requires some file cabinet space, a pair of scissors and ... that magic ingredient ... forethought... looks like this bizarre "over rationalizing" by naysayers (of lightbulbs? LOL!!) (ie. people who bought garage fulls of fluorescents or maybe paid for too many $40 bulbs are crying at at the moon?... (or new technology?...)

What can I say, timing is everything ; )


When the irons hot, hit it!

[778 neighbour of some guy]

Anyhow I didn't put this into the conspiracy section, cause I don't quite see the "boogie man" here yet... LOL! This is just the latest technology finally piping through the manufacturing and distribution channel... I'd be grateful...

Well the advantages are certainly there, for me personally anyways if I can save some money to do other useful thing with as I see fit, but the conspiracy thread you mentioned could be a good place for this too I think, think about this for a second, for at least hundreds of thousands of years the only light we have ever been exposed to was natural, sun, moon, stars, fire and lightning, that's it, no more, no less, and I am very well aware of the effects of different light spectra and their effects on humans, for instance, I work in psychiatry with a lot of kids, all these rascals have a smartphone, a flatscreen and at least a laptop, tablet or pc and they are glued to it with their faces and they are completely out of sync with a natural rhythm and I can see how that messes them up big time pig time, their behavior is really off, when I am in the office a sit on my office chair behind my computer in a cfl lit place I go completely bonkers, I cant be the only one who experiences that imo, so I am curious about the long term effect of artificial lighting on humans and how that can be messed with, must be the easiest thing ever to do, we all have tvs, computers, phones, and artificial lighting, that must have some consequences on us and I doubt we had time to properly adjust to it physiologically.

[sigma6]

Anyhow I didn't put this into the conspiracy section, cause I don't quite see the "boogie man" here yet... LOL! This is just the latest technology finally piping through the manufacturing and distribution channel... I'd be grateful...

Well the advantages are certainly there, for me personally anyways if I can save some money to do other useful thing with as I see fit, but the conspiracy thread you mentioned could be a good place for this too I think, think about this for a second, for at least hundreds of thousands of years the only light we have ever been exposed to was natural, sun, moon, stars, fire and lightning, that's it, no more, no less, and I am very well aware of the effects of different light spectra and their effects on humans, for instance, I work in psychiatry with a lot of kids, all these rascals have a smartphone, a flatscreen and at least a laptop, tablet or pc and they are glued to it with their faces and they are completely out of sync with a natural rhythm and I can see how that messes them up big time pig time, their behavior is really off, when I am in the office a sit on my office chair behind my computer in a cfl lit place I go completely bonkers, I cant be the only one who experiences that imo, so I am curious about the long term effect of artificial lighting on humans and how that can be messed with, must be the easiest thing ever to do, we all have tvs, computers, phones, and artificial lighting, that must have some consequences on us and I doubt we had time to properly adjust to it physiologically.

Right but this applies to incandescent, fluorescent and all bulbs, so the idea of full spectrum as I covered in previous posts is a separate issue.

In fact I have laid out those two issues as unresolved to my own satisfaction, i.e. the frequency issue and the full spectrum, I just see manufactures holding that one back, because they know they can get a higher price from health conscious consumers... : (

ie.. this isn't a LED light bulb issue per se

[Nick Matkin]

One thing we are overlooking regarding the 'inefficiency' of incandescent light bulbs is that, as most of us know, only about 5% of the energy is used to provide light. The other 95% is heat.

But in Europe and North America - for example - when are incandescent bulbs used most? In the winter when it's not only dark, but also cold. Therefore the 'wasted' heat goes into the house and it means the central heating can be turned down a degree or two!

Admittedly, in equatorial regions the 95% energy is wasted (no need to heat the rooms!), but in many other countries it isn't. But as others have said, the poor quality of the components limit the life of these low-energy lamps. And does anyone give a f*** what the pollution or working conditions are like at the Chinese manufacturing plants?

Regarding frequency, now that CFLs are on the way out, and LEDs use DC from rectified mains, I don't see the relevance of this issue.

Nick

[sigma6]

One thing we are overlooking regarding the 'inefficiency' of incandescent light bulbs is that, as most of us know, only about 5% of the energy is used to provide light. The other 95% is heat.

But in Europe and North America - for example - when are incandescent bulbs used most? In the winter when it's not only dark, but also cold. Therefore the 'wasted' heat goes into the house and it means the central heating can be turned down a degree or two!

Admittedly, in equatorial regions the 95% energy is wasted (no need to heat the rooms!), but in many other countries it isn't. But as others have said, the poor quality of the components limit the life of these low-energy lamps. And does anyone give a f*** what the pollution or working conditions are like at the Chinese manufacturing plants?

Regarding frequency, now that CFLs are on the way out, and LEDs use DC from rectified mains, I don't see the relevance of this issue.

Nick

So are you going to change the bulbs every season? otherwise that would just be extra cost on air conditioning each summer, a zero sum strategy, and you're still burning 5x or 500% more watts each month... I like the idea that my light is efficiently providing light and my heaters are providing heat...

you could use the extra watts to run one of those "electric fireplaces" ... not that that would be my thing...

[sigma6]

cLiOh68fCrs
After watching this YouTube. I am tempted at sacrificing the $3.38 I spent and taking apart one of the standard bulbs to compare specs. (I just can't bring myself to do it yet... :D) However, the 5.5 candle bulbs are clearly using a different technology (this video is almost a year old now...) The bulb is clear, and it has a cylindrical piece of solid glass or crystal that rises up in it... very cool and intriguing... I imagine the standard bulb is designed more similarly but after watching the video, even at $7.42 with tax, I think that is an amazing price! ie. for that much technology crammed into each bulb! But at $3.38, tax in, on a promotional discount, this is definitely a steal!

Update: I just weighed the bulbs, the guy in the video said the newest bulb he had a 10w in (pre Dec 2013) weighed 175 g down from the one he was comparing at 270 g.

11w lamp bulb weighed 144g
7w standard bulb weighed 80g
5.5w candle weighed 58g
5.5w candle small socket 54g

Once again new technology, even in less then one year, more plusses...

[sigma6]

I never liked CFL, this says it all... talk about a stop gap measure...

CFL Light Burned My Home Plus Fire Destruction Photos

bubJX-m_HSs

[jackovesk]

Good stuff, btw you forgot to mention how much $Money your going to ((SAVE)) on your energy costs...

Yes what is the estimated energy saving? :ranger: haha

Over a period of (1 year) I dare say he would of saved the entire (Outlay $Cost) of the new LED Globes and then some...:yes4:

Happy Days with chilli on-top burger...:)

[MorningFox]

Hahaha @ money to burn stockpiling light bulbs.

Get real.

Do you know how many he is buying?

Not exactly, do you?

I saw in the background of one of his videos he had maybe 200. Could probably get that for £60 in the right place. Hardly money to burn and not a fair attack on his character.

[sigma6]

Hahaha @ money to burn stockpiling light bulbs.
Get real.
Do you know how many he is buying?
Not exactly, do you?

ergo... it's a non-topic... but I still think it is an exhorbitantly stupid idea... especially in the context of this thread about a NEW technology... 5.5 and 7w light bulbs... and who's attacking his character again? could you pull up that quote?

I wouldn't put that on the same scale as say, John Denver and his PR fiasco when he was found to be hoarding thousands of gallons of gasoline for example...

And I wasn't considering the cost of the bulbs so much (another misplaced assumption?) as the difference between 7w and 100w... the idea that someone in his position would consider publicly announcing that he intends to consume 500 to 1000% more electricity than everyone else... because ... (apparently no one knows why...) would probably raise some hackles at the very least from a PR point of view... i.e. doesn't exactly jive as an example or message with a view toward world ecology and saving the planet and all that bunch of nonsense eh...

I admire your windmill tilting... but really on a thread about lightbulbs, the only way to detract from the topic is to start defending David Icke because he "stockpiled" 200 lightbulbs and you think his character is under attack?

[sigma6]

Good stuff, btw you forgot to mention how much $Money your going to ((SAVE)) on your energy costs...

Yes what is the estimated energy saving? :ranger: haha

Over a period of (1 year) I dare say he would of saved the entire (Outlay $Cost) of the new LED Globes and then some...:yes4:

Happy Days with chilli on-top burger...:)


That would be post #29... ;-]
http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?75984-Check-Out-New-LED-Household-Lightbulbs--82-Reduction-In-Wattage--Improved-Lighting-&p=889001&viewfull=1#post889001

[Nick Matkin]

I think David Icke's preference for traditional incandescent bulbs may be based on this garbled report: http://www.davidicke.com/headlines/47549-energy-saving-light-bulbs-contain-cancer-causing-chemicals/

David Icke's article links to the UK Daily Telegraph report saying "energy saving bulbs" (presumably he means CFLs as that's what he's showing) "emit poisonous materials when switched on." Er, no actually, they are sealed. They may emit EM energy on a higher frequency than ordinary bulbs, but that's all.

Oh, yes, they contain a tiny bit of mercury, but so do ordinary fluorescent strip lights which we have been using since the 1940s, so why all the fuss about CFLs? It's not good to grovel about in any broken glass and phosphor, but people didn't used to get hysterical when the kitchen strip light got broken.

Anyway, LEDs are the way to go, but just check the lumens, and ignore all the "equivalent to 60W" and similar claims. It's all nonsense and there's no proper conversion standard.

A modern 5 watt LED should give at the very least 300 to 400 lumens. Also bear in mind the illumination angle and "colour temperature" - for example, "warm white" is near to traditional bulbs.

Nick

[jackovesk]

Good stuff, btw you forgot to mention how much $Money your going to ((SAVE)) on your energy costs...

Yes what is the estimated energy saving? :ranger: haha

Over a period of (1 year) I dare say he would of saved the entire (Outlay $Cost) of the new LED Globes and then some...:yes4:

Happy Days with chilli on-top burger...:)


That would be post #29... ;-]
http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?75984-Check-Out-New-LED-Household-Lightbulbs--82-Reduction-In-Wattage--Improved-Lighting-&p=889001&viewfull=1#post889001

Nothing can beat the savings you make by doing some of the energy saving tips to slash your 'Electricity Bill'...:yes4:

Some (Energy-Saving) Tips...



The obvious - LED lights
Turn your (Hot water Service) down
Use Convection Oven & Hot Plates
Put your Fridge on Holiday Mode
Switch off the power at the wall
Turn off the lights when not needed
Put your washing machine on (Eco-Mode)
Limit the use of Air-conditioners
Use energy saving magnetic fans
Etc, etc...


Just by doing this you can save $100+ on your (Quarterly Energy Bills)...:yes4:

[sigma6]

Ontario electricity prices to climb; average household bill rising $2/month
http://kitchener.ctvnews.ca/ontario-electricity-prices-to-climb-average-household-bill-rising-2-month-1.2057258#ixzz3GMKu17ev

and Canada Post is discontinuing door to door mail... hang on as we take another step down to make more room for government officials, courts and police expenses...

yeah and for #2 I'd add those induction type hot plates...
but it's a bit of an investment because you need special pots and pans...
never heard of magnetic fans... (will look into it, but yeah buy all this stuff now...
cause the standard of living isn't going to go up for at least another 10 years...
if you plan on sticking around ...
seeya in 2024!

[sigma6]

Anyway, LEDs are the way to go, but just check the lumens, and ignore all the "equivalent to 60W" and similar claims. It's all nonsense and there's no proper conversion standard.

A modern 5 watt LED should give at the very least 300 to 400 lumens. Also bear in mind the illumination angle and "colour temperature" - for example, "warm white" is near to traditional bulbs.

Nick

agreed .... I totally did it by eye... and glad I actually didn't read too much into that... I found none of it added up to what I was seeing, not consistent anyway, there is no way a 23 watt fluorescent is 1600 lumens, and if that is the case, lumens are useless to go by alone... these 5.5s are 350 and 7s are 450, but they are bright for the wattages, still tickles me...

[sigma6]

Good stuff, btw you forgot to mention how much $Money your going to ((SAVE)) on your energy costs...
Yes what is the estimated energy saving? :ranger: haha
Over a period of (1 year) I dare say he would of saved the entire (Outlay $Cost) of the new LED Globes and then some...:yes4:
Happy Days with chilli on-top burger...:)
Ok, since I was updating posts (on this rather technical thread) I played some numbers.
The estimates I provided were off the box and based on 3hrs/day, 365 days/year at 11¢/KW hr

This is a cost comparison between 5.5 w which technically is a 40-45watt replacement, with a 60 watt bulb (and based on 6hrs a day as more realistic time average. An extreme but practical example as I did use 5.5w to replace 60w

5.5w LED candle bulb (off the box)
Cost savings = $56 savings per bulb (over 13 years, 11¢/KW hr compared to a 40watt bulb)
Estimated cost = $0.66 per year

Proof:
i.e. 5.5watts x 3hrs = 16.5 watts
16.5watts x 365 days = 6,022.5 watts per year
6,022.5 divided by 1000 = 6.0225 KW hrs
6.0225 x 11¢/KW hr = 66.25¢ of electricity per bulb per year!

Therefore:
6hrs use/day = 2 x .66 = $1.32/year! (savings = $112/bulb over 13 years)
10 bulbs replaced would save $1,120.
20 bulbs replaced would save $2,240.
30 bulbs replaced would save $3,360. !!!

60w incandescent bulb
i.e. 60watts x 6hrs = 360 watts
360 watts x 365 days = 131,400 watts/year
131,400 divided by 1,000 = 131.4 KW hrs
131.4 x 11¢/KW hr = $14.45 of electricity per bulb per year!

Therefore:
$14.45 - $1.32 = $13.13 savings per bulb per year.
or $170.69 over 13 years (compared to a 60watt bulb)
10 bulbs will save $1,706.90.
20 bulbs will save $3,413.80.
30 bulbs will save $5,120.70.

At $3.38 per bulb, it will pay for itself by calculating $3.38 divided by $13.13 = .2574
or .2574 x 365 = 93.96 days...

So there you have it, if you replace 60 watt incandescent bulbs with 5.5 watt LEDs, they will pay for themselves in 3 months flat! (based on sale price of $3.38) After that it's all gravy... ;)

Just think of it like this if you can find bulbs for 3 or 4 bucks a piece from a major name brand... and you invest the $100 bucks to replace ALL the bulbs in your house... Not only will you gain all the benefits of removing CFL bulbs, but you will save around $5,000 over the next 10 years... completely passively in the background... if we could only apply these hacks into every aspect of our lives... ;0

I used a combination of one third (1/3) 7 watt bulbs and two thirds (2/3) 5.5 watt bulbs, which averages 6 watts/bulb, and still improved the lighting over 23w CFL and incandescent bulbs...
And the more I play with these numbers, I am amazed at the results, I get the impression someone has already worked these numbers out before me... lol! I still think the 5.5w and 7w are the best size bulbs, although I'm sure they come in different sizes.



And now for a musical interlude... for your dining plezshaawww!!!
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[risveglio]

Oops. MIT: Incandescents Now More Efficient than LEDs

http://fee.org/anythingpeaceful/mit-incandescents-now-more-efficient-than-leds/

[TargeT]

Oops. MIT: Incandescents Now More Efficient than LEDs

http://fee.org/anythingpeaceful/mit-incandescents-now-more-efficient-than-leds/

a very cool reflective technology that is see through... think about what this will do for WINDOWS in office buildings that need to stay cool? block all infra red and extra visible light spectrum and only allow light... you'd have a "cold" green house basically... very interesting applications beyond just lighting.

I wonder if the opposite could be done.

One of my favorite Youtube Technical channels does some work with LED's and CFL's and electricity... pretty interesting.
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LED's pulse at 60x a second... at least CFL's are up around 80x a second.... this can't be good biologically...
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