What some of the Disciples ate

[nzreva]

Jesus that is Yahoshua was a Nazoraion John 18:5, 7 Acts 22:8, Nazoraion's did not eat flesh.
“A Nazoraion never ate meat”

Peter in Acts 3:6 But Peter said, "I do not possess silver and gold, but what I do have I give to you: In the name of Jesus Christ the Nazarene-- walk!"

Peter, one of the better known disciples, quoting him from the Clementine Homolies (sermons), a script that comes to us via Clemens, the head of the Roman community, and that appeared ca. 220 in Palestine. According to it,

Peter lived on bread and olives to which he sometimes added vegetables (XII:6).

John
And about the disciple, John, one can read the well-known church historian, Eusibius, (ca. 300) that he “never ate meat.” (Church History II., 2:3)

Similar things are reported about the disciple Matthew. Clemens of Alexandria (3rd century), recognized as reliable by both friends and enemies, writes about Matthew that he lived “from plants and never touched meat,”

Paul was a Nazoraion
Acts 24:5 "For we have found this man a real pest and a fellow who stirs up dissension among all the Jews throughout the world, and a ringleader of the sect of the Nazoraios.

(Paidagogos [=“The Pedagoge,” the first Christian ethics book] II, 1:16), just as the disciple Matthew, who was voted into the circle of the twelve after the death of Judas.
And Carl Anders Skriver adds that according to writers of the 2nd century, the apostles Andrew, Philip and Thomas as well as Mark and Luke were vegetarian (p.15).

[lucidity]

The vegetarianism of Jesus, seems consistent with the hypothesis that Jesus was a Buddhist.
But Jesus ate fish... or ... he was happy to work miracles to feed fish to his followers.

But how does one get a rich supply of vitamin B12 on a vegetarian diet?
The answer is ... eat fish. Fish, especially salmon and trout etc have good levels of B12.
(see here http://nutritiondata.self.com/foods-000116000000000000000-5.html )

Now all you have to do is figure out which sources of fish are free of PCBs, dioxins and mercury.
If anyone has an answer to that please feel free to PM me with the answer(s).
I will be both interested and grateful :-)

be happy

lucidity :-)

[thunder24]

luke 24: 41-43 interesting

[heyokah]

luke 24: 41-43 interesting

OK, here we go:

Luke 24:41-43 - New International Version (NIV)

41 - And while they still did not believe it because of joy and amazement, he asked them, “Do you have anything here to eat?” 42 - They gave him a piece of broiled fish, 43 - and he took it and ate it in their presence.


Acts 20:35 - New International Version (NIV)

35 - In everything I did, I showed you that by this kind of hard work we must help the weak, remembering the words the Lord Jesus himself said: ‘It is more blessed to give than to receive.’ ”


Hence.....

"Accept the gift so the giver will be blessed.
Refuse to accept the gift and neither one of you will be blessed." ??? :)....

http://www.examiner.com/article/why-you-should-never-refuse-to-accept-a-gift

[Atlas]

Jesus [...] did not eat flesh.

Was Jesus a vegetarian? by Matt Slick

No, Jesus was not a vegetarian. He partook of the Passover Meal which was lamb.

Exodus 12:3,6-7,11, “Speak to all the congregation of Israel, saying, ‘On the tenth of this month they are each one to take a lamb for themselves, according to their fathers’ households, a lamb for each household”…” 6‘And you shall keep it until the fourteenth day of the same month, then the whole assembly of the congregation of Israel is to kill it at twilight. 7 ‘Moreover, they shall take some of the blood and put it on the two doorposts and on the lintel of the houses in which they eat it…11‘Now you shall eat it in this manner: with your loins girded, your sandals on your feet, and your staff in your hand; and you shall eat it in haste--it is the LORD’S Passover.”

Mark 14:13-14, And He *sent two of His disciples, and *said to them, “Go into the city, and a man will meet you carrying a pitcher of water; follow him; 14 and wherever he enters, say to the owner of the house, ‘The Teacher says, “Where is My guest room in which I may eat the Passover with My disciples?”’

Source http://carm.org/questions/about-jesus/was-jesus-vegetarian

[MorningFox]

Big difference between eating meat every day and once or twice a year to follow tradition and be respectful..

[Atlas]

That's my thought too MorningFox.

-----------------------------------------

Here is an interesting comment by DJClayworth (http://christianity.stackexchange.com/a/25072):

A non-vegetarian diet would absolutely have been the norm for Jews in those days, and there is certainly no indication that Jesus did not eat meat. Jesus frequently ate with other Jews, with no indication of his having a 'special diet'. Jesus followers clearly did eat meat, and expanded their range of meat eating early in the history of the church. Mention is made of some restrictions on meat eating, which would have been unnecessary if it had been prohibited.

[Robin]

Although it is possible that these characters may have been real, historical figures, the most important aspect of the Bible (and nearly every other religious text) is that it speaks in metaphors.

Jesus is the sun and the 12 disciples are the 12 signs of the zodiac, and the stories that surround all of the characters deal with the procession of the equinoxes. Jesus is also every single one of us in that we can also unlock higher consciousness if we stop getting on our knees in blind servitude.

[Jules]

Interesting discussion. My friend, a vegetarian told me that Jesus had to be vegetarian because spiritual people do not eat meat. Now she believes Jesus may not have existed at all. I believe these people existed, times and meanings from bible were different then than what we understand today; however I pointed out to her that if He fed the multitude fish, if He was against fish consumption, why would He feed others with it? My thoughts are that the diet for the average Jewish family would have been said diet. Likewise in the Jewish tradition, certain foods were to be refrained from. Of course this is just my opinion. I also don't see why others would have a problem with a person choosing a vegetarian or vegan diet either.

[MorningFox]

Interesting discussion. My friend, a vegetarian told me that Jesus had to be vegetarian because spiritual people do not eat meat. Now she believes Jesus may not have existed at all. I believe these people existed, times and meanings from bible were different then than what we understand today; however I pointed out to her that if He fed the multitude fish, if He was against fish consumption, why would He feed others with it? My thoughts are that the diet for the average Jewish family would have been said diet. Likewise in the Jewish tradition, certain foods were to be refrained from. Of course this is just my opinion. I also don't see why others would have a problem with a person choosing a vegetarian or vegan diet either.

Can I ask what makes you think Jesus should have a capital 'H' when you're referring to him as 'He' ?

If he was indeed real, do you think he thought of himself as better, higher or more deserving than anyone else?

[13th Warrior]

Although it is possible that these characters may have been real, historical figures, the most important aspect of the Bible (and nearly every other religious text) is that it speaks in metaphors.

Jesus is the sun and the 12 disciples are the 12 signs of the zodiac, and the stories that surround all of the characters deal with the procession of the equinoxes. Jesus is also every single one of us in that we can also unlock higher consciousness if we stop getting on our knees in blind servitude.

Indeed

People get too wrapped up in minor details that prevents them from seeing the bigger picture.

[WhiteFeather]

Although it is possible that these characters may have been real, historical figures, the most important aspect of the Bible (and nearly every other religious text) is that it speaks in metaphors.

Jesus is the sun and the 12 disciples are the 12 signs of the zodiac, and the stories that surround all of the characters deal with the procession of the equinoxes. Jesus is also every single one of us in that we can also unlock higher consciousness if we stop getting on our knees in blind servitude.

And what about the Winter Solstice you forgot to add in to that mix Samwise. Doesn't that come around Dec 25th.

[WhiteFeather]

The vegetarianism of Jesus, seems consistent with the hypothesis that Jesus was a Buddhist.
But Jesus ate fish... or ... he was happy to work miracles to feed fish to his followers.

But how does one get a rich supply of vitamin B12 on a vegetarian diet?
The answer is ... eat fish. Fish, especially salmon and trout etc have good levels of B12.
(see here http://nutritiondata.self.com/foods-000116000000000000000-5.html )

Now all you have to do is figure out which sources of fish are free of PCBs, dioxins and mercury.
If anyone has an answer to that please feel free to PM me with the answer(s).
I will be both interested and grateful :-)

be happy

lucidity :-)

You should ask the cows, hippos, rhinos, guerrillas, elephants and giraffes how they stay so healthy and strong living on just grass, hay, fruit and leaves. The largest animals in the world. They don't need B12. But perhaps they are getting it directly from the soil where B12 exists, when they are feeding.


"Where does Vitamin B12 come from?"
It's very important for you to grasp that in our modern food supply B12 is found MOSTLY in animal products. Well, contrary to what some think, the cow does not actually make the B12, but the bacteria in its gut does.

When a cow chomps on grass, she eats the vitamin B12-enriched soil which allows the bacteria in the cow's gut to make use of the B12 thereby imparting the animal with B12.

And those ancestors of ours who were able to thrive on a plant-based diet without adding any Vegan Vitamin B12 supplements? Well, they were getting their food directly out of the ground still covered in soil -- soil which they were never quite able to completely remove.

Our food today is usually very clean by the time it makes it to our stores, and then we further clean it in our own kitchen (since most of us don't like the taste of dirt). Goodbye Vitamin B12.

If you eat a plant-strong diet, you MUST be sure you're getting the amount of B-12 you need.

http://www.vegancoach.com/vegan-vitamin-B12.html

[WhiteFeather]

Although it is possible that these characters may have been real, historical figures, the most important aspect of the Bible (and nearly every other religious text) is that it speaks in metaphors.

Jesus is the sun and the 12 disciples are the 12 signs of the zodiac, and the stories that surround all of the characters deal with the procession of the equinoxes. Jesus is also every single one of us in that we can also unlock higher consciousness if we stop getting on our knees in blind servitude.

Bob Dean (A well liked Whistleblower and a Gentleman IMO) once spoke that he was a close friend of Jesus in a previous incarnation when Jesus was around. I personally believe he was here, without any doubt.

[Michael Moewes]

Live Vegan. awesome, Thanks

[Michael Moewes]

Hi jules.
when you eat corpses, the energie wich they store in their flesh will be absorbed by you. so the entire suffering and pain will go into your entire being.
also all the 85000 subtle energie channels in your body will block one after the other. to attain enlightenement you need all these channels free and unblocked.
when you eat dead bodies, someone had to kill this being for you to consume it. therefore you created a very bad karma as this person who kills will go to hell, there are no exeptions.
the comand " you shall not kill" is for all seinten beings. not only for humans.



Interesting discussion. My friend, a vegetarian told me that Jesus had to be vegetarian because spiritual people do not eat meat. Now she believes Jesus may not have existed at all. I believe these people existed, times and meanings from bible were different then than what we understand today; however I pointed out to her that if He fed the multitude fish, if He was against fish consumption, why would He feed others with it? My thoughts are that the diet for the average Jewish family would have been said diet. Likewise in the Jewish tradition, certain foods were to be refrained from. Of course this is just my opinion. I also don't see why others would have a problem with a person choosing a vegetarian or vegan diet either.

[Milneman]

Once upon a time there were three bears. A mama bear, a papa bear, and a baby bear. Every morning they woke up and ate porridge for breakfast with fresh milk and lots and lots of brown sugar.

Do bears eat porridge for breakfast?

Is it necessary that porridge be used in this story for the message to be conveyed, the moral of the story to be extrapolated correctly?

Is the story about porridge?

Give a man a fish, and he eats for a day.

Teach a man to fish, and he can eat for a lifetime.

Hand a man a shovel, and watch how much horse manure he can move...... ;)

[lucidity]

Since this subject of B12 has cropped up a few times in this thread....
i should just offer you the big 'B12' news.
The big B12 news is that:
=> most B-complex/B12 supplements contain cyanocobolamine (this is the cheap form)
=> humans can't directly use cyanocobolamine, they have to turn into methylcobolamine first.
=> not all humans can do this conversion, it requires an enzyme, some people don't have it.
=> levels of this enzyme are low in sick people, and old people.
=> The 'Best Practice' advice is simply... don't buy cyanocobolamine, buy methylcobolamine.
=> humans can directly use methylcobolamine, no enzymes necessary... irrespective of age or sickness.

be happy ... and be healthy

lucidity :-)

[KaiLee]

Gospel of Thomas

(14) Jesus said to them, "If you fast, you will give rise to sin for yourselves; and if you pray, you will be condemned; and if you give alms, you will do harm to your spirits. When you go into any land and walk about in the districts, if they receive you, eat what they will set before you, and heal the sick among them. For what goes into your mouth will not defile you, but that which issues from your mouth - it is that which will defile you."

And I can't find the quote, but it's from one of the banned gospels too. Jesus spoke about only eating the amount of food one could comfortably hold in the palm of your hand. He also advised to eat local food, not food from other districts or from trade.

[thunder24]

Gospel of Thomas

(14) Jesus said to them, "If you fast, you will give rise to sin for yourselves; and if you pray, you will be condemned; and if you give alms, you will do harm to your spirits. When you go into any land and walk about in the districts, if they receive you, eat what they will set before you, and heal the sick among them. For what goes into your mouth will not defile you, but that which issues from your mouth - it is that which will defile you."

.

thanks, that is what quote I wanted to put down, but couldn't remember where it was ... thankyou

[Catsquotl]

I like this thread..
Here we are usualy disputing the actions and explanations of the church and now somehow trusting what some version of the bible hints at when it comes to vegetarianism.. I am literaly sitting in the couch laughing my ass off.

[13th Warrior]

Although it is possible that these characters may have been real, historical figures, the most important aspect of the Bible (and nearly every other religious text) is that it speaks in metaphors.

Jesus is the sun and the 12 disciples are the 12 signs of the zodiac, and the stories that surround all of the characters deal with the procession of the equinoxes. Jesus is also every single one of us in that we can also unlock higher consciousness if we stop getting on our knees in blind servitude.

And what about the Winter Solstice you forgot to add in to that mix Samwise. Doesn't that come around Dec 25th.

The Winter Solstice is the 21st but, i understand your confusion.

[lucidity]

Gospel of Thomas

(14) Jesus said to them, "If you fast, you will give rise to sin for yourselves; and if you pray, you will be condemned; and if you give alms, you will do harm to your spirits. When you go into any land and walk about in the districts, if they receive you, eat what they will set before you, and heal the sick among them. For what goes into your mouth will not defile you, but that which issues from your mouth - it is that which will defile you."

And I can't find the quote, but it's from one of the banned gospels too. Jesus spoke about only eating the amount of food one could comfortably hold in the palm of your hand. He also advised to eat local food, not food from other districts or from trade.

The problem with this idea about only eating the food you can hold in the palm of your hand is that
it unfairly distributes food.
=> Men typically have larger hands than women.
=> Tall people typically have larger hands than short people.
=> Thin people have proportionally larger hands than fat people
(ie. relative to their weight and hence relative to their food requirements)

There'd soon be a lot of very irritable short, fat women.

How many 'palms' of food did he suggest each day ?

be happy

lucidity :-)

[observer]

Click-on the forwarding icon to view the OP's first comment.

It matters not to me what the Nazoraions, nor what Yahoshua did, or didn't eat. That historic record has been so misconstrued over the last two thousand years, no one can tell you what really happened. It also matters not to me what any individual living, or decease eats.

What does matter to me, for my own conscious progression, is that, what I eat I have participated in the ritual from the procurement to the table.


I personally believe the holiday eating traditions - of all individuals - would be radically altered if, as a part of the eating ritual, it was required to participate in the sacrifice.
I believe many a holiday beast would disappear from the table if everyone consuming that beast were also a participant in the slaughter.
Allowing another individual, or an entire industry, to do the "dirty work", while every conscious being simply partakes of the harvest, from my humble point of view, is the sacrilege.
I personally will not eat any sentient being, because I personally refuse to take the life of that being simply to feed.
I personally feel no sentient being has the right to feed on any other sentient being - in any capacity.

My personal interpretation of why Yahoshua over-turned the tables of the bankers in the temple was directly related to the consumption of the sacrifice, and being required to pay excessive charges to the proxy.

[Milneman]

:suspicious:

It matters not to me what the Nazoraions, nor what Yahoshua did, or didn't eat. That historic record has been so misconstrued over the last two thousand years, no one can tell you what really happened.

Including the name you're using, the language you're using, the method you're using to express your ideas, the way you are able to discern between what matters to you and what doesn't matter to you, and your ability to know that you are 'consciously progressing'.

Not that I disagree. ;) But I would like to point out that your method leads to radical skepticism. Your first paragraph implies we can't have true knowledge about anyone historical. Scary reality? That means you can't know the stories your family tells you about your ancestors are true either. Which means....get ready for it....its logically possible that your immediate family are the result of clones, and you actually came from a vat of green goo that was made from cow udders (yes, sentient beings, and now we know why the animal abductions are happening...to clone people like you so you can write posts like this one. ;)).

It also matters not to me what any individual living, or decease eats.

What does matter to me, for my own conscious progression, is that, what I eat I have participated in the ritual from the procurement to the table.

It mattered to Socrates. It also mattered to Turing!


I personally believe the holiday eating traditions - of all individuals - would be radically altered if, as a part of the eating ritual, it was required to participate in the sacrifice.

Agreed. And to underline this, I've participated in hunts where the game is then subsequently butchered, divided among the families of the hunters, and subsequently eaten.


I believe many a holiday beast would disappear from the table if everyone consuming that beast were also a participant in the slaughter.

Agreed. I also hypothesis that most people wouldn't say what they do if they thought through what it would eventually mean to their core beliefs, including making babies, driving cars, turning on computers, consuming any form of energy created by fossil fuels, ad nauseum.


Allowing another individual, or an entire industry, to do the "dirty work", while every conscious being simply partakes of the harvest, from my humble point of view, is the sacrilege.

So to follow this example, and extend the analogy, anyone who wanted to consume the flesh of a plant should have to participate in the growing and harvesting of that plant. Don't mistake that I think there is incredible physical, emotional, and spiritual value in gardening, but your argument goes a bit wonky at this stage because its simply impossible for every individual that's going to consume the plant to participate in the harvest of the plant. In fact, I believe if you move into the realm of history (that is, if you can allow yourself to do that give the way you disassociate yourself from historical fact as a means of valid extrapolation of fact), you may in fact see how this principle, when applied by government leaders in various socialist countries, has in stead lead to the mass death of populations. So how to resolve this disconnect?

I personally will not eat any sentient being, because I personally refuse to take the life of that being simply to feed.

How do you define sentience? Is a plant sentient? The latest research seems to be indicating that plants do in fact have some kind of sentience. If that's the case, you better start getting comfortable with the idea of a pure water diet. Fruit, sorry mate. You're eating the aborted foetus of an apple tree.

I personally feel no sentient being has the right to feed on any other sentient being - in any capacity.


Does this apply to mothers who breast feed their children? I'm thinking probably not. We may not have the right, but in some countries there is no other alternative. So is this the condition of the rich only that we can be generous to sentience as a means of choosing what to and what not to eat? How do we extend the same moral principles to people in poorer countries who may only have the fish they catch, or the bush meat they eat? What about the cultural context that you seem to be ignoring here, that necessary spiritual link between the people on the land and the animals that they hunt, and the communion that exists between those animals being consumed and the indigenous populations that (still today!) participate in this practice as a way of practicing their spiritual beliefs? Would you suggest that their practices are less valid because they do not consume in the way that you consume, or suggest one should consume?

My personal interpretation of why Yahoshua over-turned the tables of the bankers in the temple was directly related to the consumption of the sacrifice, and being required to pay excessive charges to the proxy.

And another interpretation of why Jesus overturned the tables of the money changers could be linked to the idea of false gods, or the god of "money", or the disconnect between the physical reality and the transcendental message of Christ. What the post fails to realize is that this is, among many, only one idea that has flaws as well as strengths. Although I can agree with some of the strengths, I must maintain the stance that this discussion, although interesting, has really very little theological significance at all to the core message of the Gospels.

Of course, your milage may vary, and what you eat at the truck stop may also! ;)

[Milneman]

Although it is possible that these characters may have been real, historical figures, the most important aspect of the Bible (and nearly every other religious text) is that it speaks in metaphors.

Jesus is the sun and the 12 disciples are the 12 signs of the zodiac, and the stories that surround all of the characters deal with the procession of the equinoxes. Jesus is also every single one of us in that we can also unlock higher consciousness if we stop getting on our knees in blind servitude.

OR Jesus is the hen and the twelve disciples are the dozen eggs we usually buy, meaning we should eat more eggs to be closer to God and chicken if we REALLY want to be closer to God.

Sam....Really?

Part of a correct means of discernment is knowing the difference, when allegory and reality mix, are the same, aren't the same, are in different degrees.

There's a very simple way to do this; unfortunately most people won't enjoy the method because it means making certain commitments and changes in world view that would mean giving up a lot of really 'cool' stuff for some really 'healthy' stuff.

It works for Tolkien. The Gospels? Not so sure. Even Tolkien knew the difference.

[heyokah]

**

POOH, are u bored, or what?

[13th Warrior]

Oh the irony you speak:


OR Jesus is the hen and the twelve disciples are the dozen eggs we usually buy, meaning we should eat more eggs to be closer to God and chicken if we REALLY want to be closer to God.



The egg or more specifically the yolk has great occult meaning that surely will bring you closer to God.

Tolkien knew this, as evidenced by reference in "An Unexpected Journey" and the game of riddles played by Bilbo and Gollum.

[Billy]

Gospel of Thomas

(14) Jesus said to them, "If you fast, you will give rise to sin for yourselves; and if you pray, you will be condemned; and if you give alms, you will do harm to your spirits. When you go into any land and walk about in the districts, if they receive you, eat what they will set before you, and heal the sick among them. For what goes into your mouth will not defile you, but that which issues from your mouth - it is that which will defile you."

And I can't find the quote, but it's from one of the banned gospels too. Jesus spoke about only eating the amount of food one could comfortably hold in the palm of your hand. He also advised to eat local food, not food from other districts or from trade.

Mathew 15: 15-20

15 Then Peter said to Jesus, “Explain to us the parable that says people aren’t defiled by what they eat.”

16 “Don’t you understand yet?” Jesus asked. “Anything you eat passes through the stomach and then goes into the sewer. But the words you speak come from the heart—that’s what defiles you. For from the heart come evil thoughts, murder, adultery, all sexual immorality, theft, lying, and slander. These are what defile you. Eating with unwashed hands will never defile you.”

I agree.

[thunder24]

I like this thread..
I am literaly sitting in the couch laughing my ass off.

dang, i'v heard this expression but never has someone said they literally did it... so DOES IT HURT?


...HEY winnie the pooh...

Eat more hunny... it squills when you chomp...

[Milneman]

**

POOH, are u bored, or what?

Nope, tiddly-pom.

¤=[Post Update]=¤



I like this thread..
I am literaly sitting in the couch laughing my ass off.

dang, i'v heard this expression but never has someone said they literally did it... so DOES IT HURT?

...HEY winnie the pooh...

Eat more hunny... it squills when you chomp...

ROFLMAO! *Figuratively, although literally I'm giggling.*

[observer]

Since some of the members seem to have nothing better to do, to entertain themselves, than to sit-around and nit-pick other member's comments, here's something that might entertain everyone.

"Tell ya-all what I'm gonna do. I ain't goinna take two, four, six, eight o'you cats; I'm gonna take twelve o'youz studs, and straighten you'all at da same time":

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U0x5x8lyON8


When the tribal elders speak at council, they are given respect by the young braves.

One had to go quite some distance down the road to ever have heard of Lord Buckley.... ;)

[heyokah]

Since some of the members seem to have nothing better to do, to entertain themselves, than to sit-around and nit-pick other member's comments, here's something that might entertain everyone.

"Tell ya-all what I'm gonna do. I ain't goinna take two, four, six, eight o'you cats; I'm gonna take twelve o'youz studs, and straighten you'all at da same time":

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U0x5x8lyON8


When the tribal elders speak at council, they are given respect by the young braves.

One had to go quite some distance down the road to ever have heard of Lord Buckley.... ;)

Jesus' working profession as "carpenter kitty".
................

So The Nazz look at them cats and kitties
and he say, "You hungry, ain't ya, babies?"

And the cats say, "Yea, Nazz."
Say, "We was diggin' so hard on what you was puttin' down
we didn't pre-pare." Say, "We goofed."

So The Nazz say, "Well we gotta take it easy here.
We wouldn't want to go ahead and order up something
you might not like, would we."

And they said, "Sweet double hipness, you put it down and we'll pick it up."

And the Nazz step away a little bit. And he put a glorious sound of love on.

He said, "Oh, sweet swingin' flowers of the field."

And they said, "Oh, great non-stop singular song to beauty."

And he said, "Stomp upon the terra." They did.

He said, "Lift your miracle the body." The body went up.

He said, "Lift your arms." The arms went up.

He said, "Higher." They went higher.

He said, "DIG INFINITY!" And they dug it!

And when they did, Whap!, there was a flash of thunder
and they looked in one hand was a great, big, stuffed, sweet, swingin', smoked fish.

And in the other a long, gone, crazy loaf
of that southern, home-made, honey-tastin', sweet bread.

Why, these poor cats flipped!

The Nazz never did nothin' simple.

When He laid it,
He laid it.


............

:eek:

[Chester]

Based on the garbage that the current Holy Babble has been written, rewritten and along the way many times translated into... it seems what most (if not all) the disciples ate was...

... crow.

Suggest the Gospel of Thomas for what the guy (Jesus) really taught.

[observer]

Jesus [...] did not eat flesh.

Was Jesus a vegetarian? by Matt Slick

No, Jesus was not a vegetarian. He partook of the Passover Meal which was lamb.

Exodus 12:3,6-7,11, “Speak to all the congregation of Israel, saying, ‘On the tenth of this month they are each one to take a lamb for themselves, according to their fathers’ households, a lamb for each household”…” 6‘And you shall keep it until the fourteenth day of the same month, then the whole assembly of the congregation of Israel is to kill it at twilight. 7 ‘Moreover, they shall take some of the blood and put it on the two doorposts and on the lintel of the houses in which they eat it…11‘Now you shall eat it in this manner: with your loins girded, your sandals on your feet, and your staff in your hand; and you shall eat it in haste--it is the LORD’S Passover.”

Mark 14:13-14, And He *sent two of His disciples, and *said to them, “Go into the city, and a man will meet you carrying a pitcher of water; follow him; 14 and wherever he enters, say to the owner of the house, ‘The Teacher says, “Where is My guest room in which I may eat the Passover with My disciples?”’

Source http://carm.org/questions/about-jesus/was-jesus-vegetarian

Hi Atlas/buares,

Allow me to point-out what I perceive as a flaw in your comment.

1. Outside of the New Testament, there is no physical evidence that any individual named Jesus ever existed. The most likely character from the actual historic record for this role was named Yeshua (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yeshua_(name)) ben Yosef, or as the OP prefers to call him, "Yahoshua (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yeshua_(name))".

The name Yeshua ben Yosef is used throughout the original text of the Nag Hammadi Codices and Gospels. These are all the text that was declared heretical by agents of the Roman Empire, i.e. Saints of the Roman Catholic Conspiracy, over a nearly 400 year period of time, prior to the final canonization of the New Testament sometime around the year 400 AD (CE). Even from within these Nag Hammadi Text, translators will use the word Jesus as an accurate translation of the name Yeshua Ben Yosef.

In Western Christianity the name Yeshua is translated into the name Jesus because it sounds less Jewish, a common Fundamental Roman-Christian twist. However, the most accurate translation would be Joshua.

2. Although using Exodus 12:3,6-7,11 is most likely an accurate description of ancient Jewish traditions, and could be used in any argument regarding what practicing Jews do at the Pass Over, there is no evidence that the Nazarene Essenes, or as the OP prefers, "The Nazoraions", were in any way practicing traditional Pass Over rituals. Scholars who have studied the Essenes through the scrolls they left behind in Qumran, Israel, in general, agree that they were very strict regarding their diet. Many scholars will agree they were practicing vegetarians.

Now, this conclusion will offend any Christian Apologist who will defend the accuracy of the Old and New Testament without exception, but the evidence simply does not support the accuracy of either these documents - as we know them today, especially the New Testament. One need only ask the question, "how many versions of the Holy Bible do we have?" - yet, all allegedly the same document, or the "Undisputed Word of God".

3. You will not find any Biblical Scholar who will agree that Mark the Evangelist (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gospel_of_Mark), a companion and interpreter of the apostle Peter, ever wrote the Gospel attributed to his name. How then is it possible one use any text anywhere in this Biblical document as a basis for an argument regarding what the Nazarene Essenes did, or didn't eat? The validity of the entire Holy Bible is in question. Using text taken from this document as evidence to support a claim regarding the validity of the document, is circular logic.

Additionally, the phrase, "and a man will meet you carrying a pitcher of water; follow him", is an allegory for the sign of the Zodiac, Aquarius, the "Water Bearer". Much of the Bible is symbolic, with hidden meaning for, "those with ears to hear, and eyes to see".

As I stated in my comment #24 (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?76753-What-some-of-the-disciples-ate&p=898942&viewfull=1#post898942), "It matters not to me what the Nazoraions, nor what Yahoshua did, or didn't eat."

My debate with the OP spans other threads. Members with an interest can review other comments concerning the accuracy of Biblical Text documented in this thread: Christian or Nazoraion (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?67303-Christian-or-Nazoraion)?

[Atlas]

Thank you observer.

If I understand you correctly, Jesus, Joshua, Yeshua and Yahoshua are the same individual, right? This is interesting.


Many scholars will agree they were practicing vegetarians.
Do you know who the "many scholars" are ? Is there a link where I can read what they wrote ?

[observer]

Thank you observer.

If I understand you correctly, Jesus, Joshua, Yeshua and Yahoshua are the same individual, right? This is interesting.


Many scholars will agree they were practicing vegetarians.
Do you know who the "many scholars" are ? Is there a link where I can read what they wrote ?

Yes Atlas, all those names can be applied to the same entity, although the Jesus name is the most heretical of them all. I can just imagine the Yahoshua entity sitting in some hyperdimensional realm listening to all those prayers to Jesus from the Mass of Humanity, and looking around while asking, "who is this Jesus character they are all crying-out to"?

Any in depth study will reveal that Josephus, Philo, Pliny, Dio Chrysostom and Hippolytus of Rome (http://essene.com/History/AncientHistoriansAndEssenes.html)spoke of the Essenes. These were perhaps the earliest scholars to write on the Essene Community. What one will soon realize is the fact that the New Testament nearly exclusively overlooks the importance of the Essene Community to early Christianity, and purposely obscures the Nazoraion element by calling him Jesus of Nazareth - not Jesus the Nazarene. This is a heresy to the origins of Christianity.

In lieu of making a list of scholars for you to study, I have compiled a list of modern Essene Communities one can study and get a better understanding of what the Essene Community of antiquity was all about. Within any of these links one will find references to the Essene Diet.

The Teachings of Essene -
Note: A page of excellent links on all things Essene. Seek-out any particular links on the Essene Diet.
http://ramsss.com/christian/essene/

Introduction to the Ancient Essenes and the Modern Essene Church of Christ -
http://www.essene.org/Ancient_Essenes.htm

Who Are The Essenes -
http://www.essenespirit.com/index.html
Especially focus on: The Essene Principles and Rules of Life -
http://www.essenespirit.com/principles.html

And something from the International Vegetarian Union: Was Christ a Vegetarian? -
http://www.ivu.org/history/christian/christ_veg.html
Read-down to the last line on that page. The Cathar were the last living Gnostic (Essene) Christians to be annihilated by the Roman Empire.

Please Note:
In all of these links I have attempted to avoid any reference to the Essene Gospel of Peace, and the popular Essene Diet extracted from that text. Far too much controversy surrounds that particular work by Edmund Bordeaux Szekely.

[nzreva]

Jesus that is Yahoshua was a Nazoraion John 18:5, 7 Acts 22:8, Nazoraion's did not eat flesh.
“A Nazoraion never ate meat”
Peter, one of the better known disciples, quoting him from the Clementine Homolies (sermons), a script that comes to us via Clemens, the head of the Roman community, and that appeared ca. 220 in Palestine. According to it,
Peter lived on bread and olives to which he sometimes added vegetables (XII:6).
John
And about the disciple, John, one can read the well-known church historian, Eusibius, (ca. 300) that he “never ate meat.” (Church History II., 2:3)
Similar things are reported about the disciple Matthew. Clemens of Alexandria (3rd century), recognized as reliable by both friends and enemies, writes about Matthew that he lived “from plants and never touched meat,”
Paul was a Nazoraion
Acts 24:5 "For we have found this man a real pest and a fellow who stirs up dissension among all the Jews throughout the world, and a ringleader of the sect of the Nazoraios.
(Paidagogos [=“The Pedagoge,” the first Christian ethics book] II, 1:16), just as the disciple Matthew, who was voted into the circle of the twelve after the death of Judas.
And Carl Anders Skriver adds that according to writers of the 2nd century, the apostles Andrew, Philip and Thomas as well as Mark and Luke were vegetarian (p.15 He did not wash his hands before he ate which means he would have gotten his Vit b 12 from the ground.
The vegetarianism of Jesus, seems consistent with the hypothesis that Jesus was a Buddhist.
But Jesus ate fish... or ... he was happy to work miracles to feed fish to his followers.

But how does one get a rich supply of vitamin B12 on a vegetarian diet?
The answer is ... eat fish. Fish, especially salmon and trout etc have good levels of B12.
(see here http://nutritiondata.self.com/foods-000116000000000000000-5.html )

Now all you have to do is figure out which sources of fish are free of PCBs, dioxins and mercury.
If anyone has an answer to that please feel free to PM me with the answer(s).
I will be both interested and grateful :-)

be happy

lucidity :-)

[nzreva]

Nazoraion true Essens and and certain Gnostics did not eat the passover lamb. The first clear evidence that yahoshua was a non meat eater is that his apostles abided by the plant-based diet. Church historian Eusebius wrote in his work “Demonstratio Evangelica” (“Proof of the Gospels”):
“They [the apostles] embraced and persevered in a strenuous and a laborious life, with fasting and abstinence from wine and meat.”

And in his “Church History” text, Eusebius wrote that apostle John “never ate meat.” The Early Church Father St. Clement of Alexandria, who was also a non meat eater, wrote about the apostle Matthew:

“It is far better to be happy than to have your bodies act as graveyards for animals. Accordingly, the apostle Matthew partook of seeds, nuts and vegetables, without flesh.”

And in St. Clement’s “Clementine Homilies,”, St. Peter is quoted as having said: “I live on olives and bread to which I rarely only add vegetables.”

They followed the example of The Nazoraion, Yahoshua.

[nzreva]

Some things I will not eat "all creatures are good".... Aborted babies for one, yet in China they can justify that by quoting Paul. I am a believer in life for all, that is what Yahoshua the Nazoraion means. I do not need to study his teachings to believe this but it did help me to read them to understand that all life is precious. As far as veggies, they do not have a nervous system... I do believe they respond to outside elements. I write to help develop my thoughts and to get input back that further develops my thoughts which will determine my actions....

[nzreva]

NZR from Nazoraion comes from an Egyptian word http://books.google.com/books?id=PepGAQAAQBAJ&pg=PA123&lpg=PA123&dq=nzr+egyptian+word&source=bl&ots=msPpvutv53&sig=8WX6v6ATezkDmSWCecoyP25F0WE&hl=en&sa=X&ei=WTZmVOPAE4mzyQTcsYLoDw&ved=0CB4Q6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=nzr%20egyptian%20word&f=false
I have called my son out of Egypt....

[Atlas]

As far as veggies, they do not have a nervous system...
Hmm... no nervous system the plants ?

fGLABm7jJ-Y

[nzreva]

The video says no nervous system, plants responds to electric energy as we all do, the difference is we have a nervous system they don't.

As far as veggies, they do not have a nervous system...
Hmm... no nervous system the plants ?

fGLABm7jJ-Y

[observer]

Some things I will not eat "all creatures are good".... Aborted babies for one, yet in China they can justify that by quoting Paul. I am a believer in life for all, that is what Yahoshua the Nazoraion means. I do not need to study his teachings to believe this but it did help me to read them to understand that all life is precious. As far as veggies, they do not have a nervous system... I do believe they respond to outside elements. I write to help develop my thoughts and to get input back that further develops my thoughts which will determine my actions....

Please forgive me, nzreva, if you found any of my comments, here or in another thread (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?67303-Christian-or-Nazoraion), offensive.

My style can sometimes appear abusive to some. While my only intentions are to wake-up the reader.


I agree with you with much of what you write.
I especially agree that Yahoshua was a Nazoraion.
I also agree that that the earliest Christians were Nazoraion.
I additionally agree with anything you may express regarding the consumption of meat.

You extract your point of view from within the confines exclusively of one document, the Holy Bible, and of course, the many thousands of editions to which.

From my extensive research on the subject, I find that document was written - or should I say edited, redacted, and re-edited - into a text of extremely confining rules, all designed to abstractly connect the entity Yahoshua, with the God of the Old Testament.

With this purpose in mind, this work was the most obscene heresy ever devised to control the Souls of Humanity.

[nzreva]

He fed them Ichthus, which is fish and Ichthus bread a sea vegetable. The sea vegetable makes more sense since he was The Nazoraion secondly the boy was carrying a basket, it would not be allowed in Jewish law to put fish or meat in a basket since they can not be sterilized.

[nzreva]

Yahoshua was speaking from a Nazoraion view point, out of the heart comes murder, to kill innocent life for pleasure is what defiles you

Gospel of Thomas

(14) Jesus said to them, "If you fast, you will give rise to sin for yourselves; and if you pray, you will be condemned; and if you give alms, you will do harm to your spirits. When you go into any land and walk about in the districts, if they receive you, eat what they will set before you, and heal the sick among them. For what goes into your mouth will not defile you, but that which issues from your mouth - it is that which will defile you."

And I can't find the quote, but it's from one of the banned gospels too. Jesus spoke about only eating the amount of food one could comfortably hold in the palm of your hand. He also advised to eat local food, not food from other districts or from trade.

Mathew 15: 15-20

15 Then Peter said to Jesus, “Explain to us the parable that says people aren’t defiled by what they eat.”

16 “Don’t you understand yet?” Jesus asked. “Anything you eat passes through the stomach and then goes into the sewer. But the words you speak come from the heart—that’s what defiles you. For from the heart come evil thoughts, murder, adultery, all sexual immorality, theft, lying, and slander. These are what defile you. Eating with unwashed hands will never defile you.”

I agree.

[nzreva]

Jhn 10:10
The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly.

The Hunger Argument
Number of people worldwide who will die as a result of malnutrition this year: 20 million

Number of people who could be adequately fed using land freed if Americans reduced their intake of meat by 10%: 100 million

Percentage of corn grown in the U.S. eaten by people: 20
Percentage of corn grown in the U.S. eaten by livestock: 80

Percentage of oats grown in the U.S. eaten by livestock: 95

Percentage of protein wasted by cycling grain through livestock: 90

How frequently a child dies as a result of malnutrition: every 2.3 seconds

Pounds of potatoes that can be grown on an acre: 40,000
Pounds of beef produced on an acre: 250

Percentage of U.S. farmland devoted to beef production: 56
Pounds of grain and soybeans needed to produce a pound of edible flesh from feedlot beef: 16

Be doer's of the word not hears only.

[Jules]

Sorry to respond as late as I have. I capitalized He out of respect. I believe Yeshua was man as God intended, the second Adam. All of us have our belief systems. The pope puts himself on the same level as Yeshua or God, yet look at the greed, evil and corruption of that religion. If the pope is at the same level, why is that guy adorned in fine linens, gold, pricey gemstones and excuses abuses, while Yeshua was humble, strong spiritually, helped others, loved people, hated corruption and abuse, did nothing that I can see as wrong and paid a high price that a pope would never do, in other words Yeshua was different than the others.

[nzreva]

Yahoshua say's he was The Nazoraion three times in John and Acts. Buddhist teaching's as other teachings agree with what he taught. That does not make him of their faith. Three times it is mentioned that the Highest power gave us non death foods, in Genesis, when Moses led the people out of Egypt they ate manna, and in the end in Revelation when death will be done away with. The interesting word for Truth is E (alph) M (men) T (tav) the first middle and last letter of the Hebrew alphabet. Also when Peter said you are the Christos or Messiah the Son of the Living God. Many Christ's have come and gone but the son of ABBA the life giving God was after the order of Melchizedek who offered bread and wine to Abram, before he became Abraham. The New Covenant last supper offers bread and wine to eat in remembrance of Yahoshua the Nazoraion. Some believe Yahoshua ate lamb. Yahoshua's brother James did not eat meat John the Baptist did not eat meat, so the passorver meal for them would have not included meat, as Yahoshua shows his disciples at the last supper. His eating of Ichthus that is translated fish or sea vegetable bread which is still eaten in the Middle East, has no fish in it but a sea vegetable, which is called Ichthus bread, the boy who had the basket of Ichthus would not have had fish in it because it was against the Law of the Jews to carry meat or fish in a basket, only in a container that could be sterilized. Yahoshua after the resurrection was cooking ὀψάριον opsarion which is fish eggs (unfertilized) not Ichthus. To eat unfertilized eggs is not killing anything, nor is eating unfertilized bird eggs. Mary his mom brought birds to be sacrificed, not to kill the birds but to give live giving eggs to eat. Death will be done away with, some have chosen this path in this life, we follow the Nazoraion Way which is an old and fresh way always giving us life not death.....

[DeDukshyn]

As far as veggies, they do not have a nervous system...
Hmm... no nervous system the plants ?

fGLABm7jJ-Y

To supplement your post, hopefully without distracting too much from the topic ... ;)

http://news.discovery.com/videos/plants-can-hear-you.htm


And newer research ... plants listen for predators trying to eat them :)

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2014/07/140709-plants-vibrations-insects-botany-science/

[nzreva]

Yahoshua was talking to people who fasted so they could kill people, as with apostle paul they swore not to eat till he was dead, I can't help but wonder if they starved to death because he got away. On a more serious note it was a custom to not eat till the promise was fulfilled. So I understand why he would say that. Giving alms without knowing if you are giving to evil would do harm... If you are a healer of the sick people are going to know you are a life giver, and life giver's do not do harm or bring death so what is set before you would not be dead things, if yahoshua brought life how could he eat death? He did not touch Lasareth when he brought him back to life. What is in my heart and mind is what defiles me and if I eat death then how can I have the spirit of life in its fullness in me?
Gospel of Thomas

(14) Jesus said to them, "If you fast, you will give rise to sin for yourselves; and if you pray, you will be condemned; and if you give alms, you will do harm to your spirits. When you go into any land and walk about in the districts, if they receive you, eat what they will set before you, and heal the sick among them. For what goes into your mouth will not defile you, but that which issues from your mouth - it is that which will defile you."

And I can't find the quote, but it's from one of the banned gospels too. Jesus spoke about only eating the amount of food one could comfortably hold in the palm of your hand. He also advised to eat local food, not food from other districts or from trade.

[nzreva]

Before Yahoshua was a Jew he was Jhn 1:1
¶
In a beginning was the Word, and the Word was with the God, and the Word was God.

Heb 7:13
For the one of whom these things are spoken belonged to another tribe, from which no one has ever served at the altar.

Heb 7:14
For it is evident that our Lord was descended from Judah, and in connection with that tribe Moses said nothing about priests.

Heb 7:15
This becomes even more evident when another priest arises in the likeness of Melchizedek,

Heb 7:16
who has become a priest, not on the basis of a legal requirement concerning bodily descent, but by the power of an indestructible life.

Legal requirement demands blood. The power of an indestructible life does not. Which is why Yahoshua The Nazoraion was as Melchizedek
both offered bread and wine. He tells us we don't have to believe in him, he emphases his works or deeds,
Jhn 10:38
but if I do them, even though you do not believe me, believe the works, that you may know and understand that the Father is in me and I am in the Father.”
Yahoshua did not eat meat because his order preceded Moses. He was from a beginning both in Genesis and in John, he says do my works and you will see the father in me....
1Ti 2:3
This is good, and pleases God our Savior,

1Ti 2:4
who wants all people to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth.

[The Alley Cat]

As far as veggies, they do not have a nervous system...
Hmm... no nervous system the plants ?

fGLABm7jJ-Y

To supplement your post, hopefully without distracting too much from the topic ... ;)

http://news.discovery.com/videos/plants-can-hear-you.htm


And newer research ... plants listen for predators trying to eat them :)

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2014/07/140709-plants-vibrations-insects-botany-science/

Smiles great stuff this DeDukshyn.. thanks :)

Just remembered the research and passion of Cleve Backster back when.. providing a link for those interested..
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cleve_Backster

.. and for all those the same's, Stephen Buhners work is a wild and well worth read ;
.. pic of books here please..
Noo?

Just hoping that wasn't too far of a stretch, least you're not
alone in distracting the crowd :)
X

[sheme]

I had a revelation whilst reading the Bible 1986 I think.

I understood that I should not eat flesh with blood in it. This does not mean I must bleed the beast to death before I can eat it, it means I may only eat the flesh with out blood - the fig the peach the orange the banana the mushroom all flesh according to the bible but flesh without blood.

I rarely read the bible.

Perhaps the plant is excited to serve and delighted to raise our vibration- I think the reaction depends on your intent and your guilt if any-all water has memory even the water in our bodies.

[nzreva]

I model myself after His teachings. I put a capitol H on anyone I think has the best life has to offer.

[nzreva]

“You eat”, since the Disciples were Nazoraion’s they did not eat flesh. So what would have gone into their body would not have defiled them. Yahoshua was not talking to a general audience here. Murder comes out of the heart, it is murder to kill innocent life, so how can anyone justify meat to go into their body?

[nzreva]

The New Covenant = Bread and the fruit of the vine. Yahoshua never talks about eating lamb.

[nzreva]

The word icthus can mean fish or icthus with bread which is still eaten by vegetarians. It can be a type of spread that can have fish or not. I eat icthus a sea weed spread. Yahoshua or Jesus was The Nazoraion He did not eat things with eyes nose and a mouth. He ate upsporian unfertilized fish eggs, unfertilized chicken eggs. He was the resurrection, he gave life, he gave Adam Eve and the other beings good things not death, he fed manna and when they ask for flesh he sent them birds, when they ate them they died. Birds lay eggs, If he sent me birds I would eat the unfertilized eggs. Lastly His Govermnent will have no death, I choose to live as much as I can in His Govermnent, which makes this a better world

[we-R-one]

Jesus that is Yahoshua was a Nazoraion John 18:5, 7 Acts 22:8, Nazoraion's did not eat flesh.
“A Nazoraion never ate meat”

I might be able to add a different dimension to the conversation. I suspect the foods of choice in those times complemented the blood type which would have been type AB from what I understand. AB does better with minimal meat and more of a vegetarian diet comprising of eggs, fish, nuts, bread etc…AB blood types do well grazing rather than eating heavy meals. People with this blood type have low stomach acid making it difficult for them to digest meat. I can personally attest to this being true as I automatically ate this type of diet before I even knew my blood type which I just discovered upon having a recent surgery to be the rare type AB.

It’s interesting to note studies on The Shroud of Turin revealed the blood type found to be AB, which would fit the type of diet many are describing the disciples ate.

My name was Saint Mary Helena Salome(Akashic confirmed) back in the times of Galilee and Jesus was my nephew and cousin. In studying my core past life identities I’m finding parallels to my life today compared to who I was and I suspect my blood type may be another aspect to consider. I’m assuming it’s likely I was type AB in my past lives as Saint Mary Helena Salome and as Mary Queen of Scots as those two lives are strongly paralleling this one. I should dig around and see if MQS’ DNA can reveal her blood type. I have no doubt that someone knows as they had enough to do a formal reconstruction of her face….. Just more reasons to understand why E.T.'s are so interested in DNA as your blood type is tied to personality traits which may correlate to your experiences as your behavior is tied to 'how you're wired'.

One more thing….the only meat I consistently eat for protein, just so happens to be lamb. :flock:

[Mark (Star Mariner)]

The heartland of Jesus's ministry, and that of his disciples, was the region of Galilee. It contained Nazareth for one, and Mount Carmel, an Essene stronghold, which some schools of thought claim Jesus was tutored and initiated into the Mysteries as a child. Central to the area was the Sea of Galilee, which had numerous fisheries dotted around its perimeter. Fish was absolutely critical to the economy of the region, as well as the feeding of its people. It is almost certain that Jesus and his followers ate fish at one time or another, even without evidence from scripture. Just my opinion though.

On the related subject of what the disciples may or may not have eaten, it is strange and ironic that the Church today celebrate Christ by symbolically eating him. The Eucharist describes that by consuming bread and wine, one consumes the flesh and the blood of Christ. So say, because the disciples conducted this ritual at the Last Supper.

[nzreva]

Yahoshua, in John 21: after his resurrection was cooking ὀψάριον
opsarion which translates baby fish, or fish eggs. The unfertilized eggs of a fish would be opsarion and would be part of the Nazoraion’s diet, as is chicken eggs unfertilized. That is where the vitamin b 12 is stored, nothing dies. So a Nazoraion diet would be an ovo-vegetarian or vegan plus egg diet. Also when they gave him icthus when he appeared to them, in the Middle East there is icthus bread or sea vegetables, does not have fish in it. The boy carrying the icthus had it in a basket. Jewish law forbids one to carry meat or fish in a basket because it cannot be sterilized. So it would have been icthus bread or sea vegetable dish.