Germany in euphoria about fall of Berlin wall (today is 11/9)

[Cardillac]

Hi all,

today in Germany (9th day of the 11th month: 11/9) one is celebrating euphorically the 25th anniversary of the fall of the Berlin wall;

Kristall Nacht (cristal night: burning of Jewish synagoges, etc.) occurred on 11/9 1938;

now reverse all of this: 9/11-

just a coincidence?- hardly- there are no coincidences in life- everything has a reason-

please let me know your thoughts on this topic if you feel inclined to do so- I certainly already have my own for a looong time now-

Larry

[Pris]

Hi all,

today in Germany (9th day of the 11th month: 11/9) one is celebrating euphorically the 25th anniversary of the fall of the Berlin wall;

Kristall Nacht (cristal night: burning of Jewish synagoges, etc.) occurred on 11/9 1938;

now reverse all of this: 9/11-

just a coincidence?- hardly- there are no coincidences in life- everything has a reason-

please let me know your thoughts on this topic if you feel inclined to do so- I certainly already have my own for a looong time now-

Larry

I agree that was done on purpose.

This is painfully obvious, but Canada is about to have 'Remembrance Day' and USA has 'Veterans Day' on November 11. 11/11

[A Voice from the Mountains]

Glücklicher Jahrestag!

I was wanting to talk to a native German about this. In the US of course we are shown that Germans are very happy about this and celebrating, and there are illuminated ballons across Berlin indicating where the wall used to be. But of course like anything the US media shows, I automatically tend not to believe it. But then again, if there's much truth to how we're told the Soviets ran things on the other side, then there must have really been some celebrations, even if just for the fact that Berliners could travel freely again.

So can you tell us anything about the Berlin Wall and its fall, not only as a German but as a Project Avalon-type person to boot, that is not typically reported or talked about by historians? Any underlying details that are often overlooked about the big-picture implications of this, things like that? More than the shallow mainstream stories is all I'm looking for, I suppose, and to get a better feel for what the German people really think about this.

[Pris]

Glücklicher Jahrestag!

I was wanting to talk to a native German about this. In the US of course we are shown that Germans are very happy about this and celebrating, and there are illuminated ballons across Berlin indicating where the wall used to be. But of course like anything the US media shows, I automatically tend not to believe it. But then again, if there's much truth to how we're told the Soviets ran things on the other side, then there must have really been some celebrations, even if just for the fact that Berliners could travel freely again.

So can you tell us anything about the Berlin Wall and its fall, not only as a German but as a Project Avalon-type person to boot, that is not typically reported or talked about by historians? Any underlying details that are often overlooked about the big-picture implications of this, things like that? More than the shallow mainstream stories is all I'm looking for, I suppose, and to get a better feel for what the German people really think about this.

Personally, I think all the celebrating is nonsense. It's definitely over exaggerated by media to appear to mean so much to Germans. So what? The Wall came down. How much 'freedom' did that gain for everybody? That hasn't changed the fact that we're all still slaves in the global monetary system that's run by our governments who are controlled by the corporations.

At the time the Wall came down, some West Germans were not thrilled with the prospect of having East Germans having their 'freedom'. Some felt the influx of all the East Germans would pull down the neighbourhood, so to speak. Germans really like to focus on class differences.

Divide and conquer. Forcing people to live in a world of contrived lack and limitation and encouraging everyone to focus on the differences between groups of people (the haves and the have-nots) has always worked to keep everyone at each other's throats.

[Mark]

I was in Germany when the wall came down, a young soldier stationed in Kaiserslautern. I remember in the months before the wall came down we began seeing these small east German cars broke down on the side of the Autobahn. The Trabants, we called them Tropis for some reason. In the days and weeks after the wall fell, at the BX (base exchange) in Vogelweh, at the time the largest concentration of American soldiers outside of the US, we could buy pieces of the Wall, with the graffitti covering them, for a really cheap price. I was not interested, never considered buying one.

I remember my German friends being concerned about the difference in economic status and the integration of the two regions. Also remember hearing a lot at the time about the intolerance of E. Germans as well as the difference between Communism and Capitalism.

[meeradas]

I's there, right in the middle of it, Berlin, back then.
The atmosphere was... electric. Buzzing.

Two things i noticed:
At one point before the opening of the wall, people in black jackets with printed banners saying "we are ONE people",
as opposed to the masses gathering at the freedom demos chanting "we are THE people", appeared amongst the demonstrators.
The chanting quickly changed into "we are one people"; the "we are the people" disappeared altogether.

A quick and bizarre change,
and i guess i was one of the few who noticed; and disapproved - as this was too fast paced for sth solid to evolve out of.
After that, one could see the west side daily accelerating the 'assimiliation process' of the east, bulldozing the few voices
who called for a slower process of reunification including an integration of the good parts of both systems - which then didn't take place .
And, it took them not even a year to eradicate the GDR [and all its assets - sad].

To clarify the above: I's raised in the west. West Berlin was the free-est place on the planet; at least, that's how it felt to me, despite the wall and politicks.

One more thing:
Was watching the 40th anniversary of the GDR [Oct 7, 1989] festivities on live telly, back then, with my mom.
These were feeling different than the years before (they celebrated every year; sidenote: To me, this always looked like they had merely changed their colours from Nazi to Ikea) -
nothing short of totally ridiculous. Now, everyone knew it was staged by the party, always, but in 89, it felt so static and waxen, that both my mom and me had to laugh out loud, watching the grotesque unfold. It was [I]over - that's how it felt.

Same thing happened to me yesterday, when i watched the "25 yrs no more wall"- celebrations on a hotel tv.
Very odd feeling, no real celebration, heart completely missing. And Murkle topping it all.
Like a muppet show. No euphoria whatsoever. Curtains, and off [rather: down].

It's over, again. And again, the main stream doesn't [want to] notice.

*sigh*

http://www.itusozluk.com/image/statler-and-waldorf_127634.jpg

[Olaf]

Euphoria is not the right term

In my familiy and in many people around me I cannot see much Euphoria. Somehow we are happy that we now have more means to gain free information (at least via internet). On the other side mass media in Germany are brought into line since many years which is propagating the interests of the Cabal. Via radio, tv, most daily news papers there is now free information anymore in Germany.

Certainly there is more now freedom in what you can do, compared with life in the GDR.

But many people in East Germany have also paid this freedom with the complete expropriation of the wealth of the public. Factories, landscapes and so on in GDR belonged to the people ("Volkseigentum" = public property). After reunion factories were sold off to their business competitors, mostly they took the technology from them and closed them down.
Landscapes were sold off to to rich people from west Germany and the Cabal.

Now, 25 years after reunion here in Thuringia ordinary people earn only half of what they would earn for the same work in West Germany. Practically, this means you have no money left to go on holiday, no money for healthy eating (Natural Foods Store), no money for visits to the naturopath, you cannot go to the movies, and certainly not to the theater, you can not go to other cities. However, we have a social system which ensures that you can pay your rent, electricity and food (350 euros per month + rent).

Many young people leave the region, because they see no future here. In particular, young women have little ways to find challenging positions, because we hardly have any industry. My home town now is mainly dependent on tourism. For 2015 it has a deficit in its budget of 50 million euros.

Yes, we had little freedom in the times of East Germany. Especially the 50s and 60s must have been very hard.
But even in this times no one could tell you what to think. The restriction was more in regars to what you could say in the newspapers and on television. At least in the 80s when I was a student and later a scientist we had very honest and serious discussions about a future with freedom in a socialist country.

The GDR had a very well developed social system. I have always felt very safe, I had no fear about my future in regars to have a flat, have something to eat and being able to consume culture. Although a teacher wanted me to being excluded from high school for political reasons, I was able to stay and to study what I wanted.
Rents were extremely low. As a student, I got 100 marks a month (which is about 50 euros) I had to pay 10 marks a month (5 euros) to rent a room and later 40 marks (20 euros) for a whole apartment. Lunch cost 1 Mark (50 cents). Movies cost 1.10 marks (56 cents) and - yes - we could also see a lot of American movies.
Books were very cheap and there were printed a lot of books from international writers. Extremely expensive where cars, TV and any kind of technology.

I am happy that I can move freely now (at least when I have enough money to do this). But I also have a lot of happy memories from the times in GDR and some memories from this time to situations that were hard to me (for instance when this teacher tried to force me out of the high school or when somebody told you what you are expected to think which - of course - you would not do).