The left foot and the right foot path.

[Milneman]

Once upon a time, two friends decided to have a debate. Which foot, they asked, was the better foot to walk upon?

The one friend suggested the left, because stepping to the left afforded her the opportunity to be closer to apple orchards and the fruit that fell on the road was closer to the left hand side of the path. Therefore, the left foot was clearly the better.

The other friend agreed, because like her friend, she too enjoyed the taste of the apples that fell on the left hand side of the road.

In fact, these two friends enjoyed their debate and conclusion so much that they decided the best way to live was to walk dominant on their left foot. This gave them an incredible limp. So much of a limp in fact that they started to lean to the left. After years of leaning to the left their right feet began to shrink and shrivel up, and their left feet grew heavy and calloused. All day they would hop along the road, and passers by would look, point, and wonder why they moved in such a peculiar way, using only one foot, when it would be more natural to walk with both.

The two overheard the whispers and decided they needed to tell others about how useful the left foot path was, how it brought them closer to apples that fell on the side of the road, and how the right foot was just a distraction, it had it's uses, it was good for keeping balance, but the trick was to rely mostly on your left foot.

Other side of the road, two brothers were preaching the same, except with the right foot. It brought you closer to the peaches.

After several months, both sides had gathered quite a following and they would alternate between hopping on one foot and eating fruit.

A year passed. The two groups became proficient at hopping, but also fat from a diet of pure fruit. (work with me here lol) Slowly both groups became smaller and smaller as one by one, the hoppers fell over and weren't able to get up. They found themselves in piles of rotting fruit which they ate, intoxicating themselves from the fermenting apples and peaches.

Come spring, two farmers, one an apple grower and the other a peach grower, brought out their tractors and tilled the soil, turning the one-legged hopping people down into the soil. Both farmers were always impressed with how good the fruit they produced was and couldn't understand why their soil was so rich.

Of course, if you walk down the road on both feet, you'd find yourself at the stall where both peaches and apples are sold for a very fine price, and with no hopping required.

[KaiLee]

Isn't this post just an attack on other forum members.?

[Orph]

They found themselves in piles of rotting fruit which they ate, intoxicating themselves from the fermenting apples and peaches.

Lucky for me I wasn't left intoxicated from fermenting apples or peaches. However, I was left intoxicated from fermenting grapes and have had trouble walking with either of my feet since then. :P

[Milneman]

They found themselves in piles of rotting fruit which they ate, intoxicating themselves from the fermenting apples and peaches.

Lucky for me I wasn't left intoxicated from fermenting apples or peaches. However, I was left intoxicated from fermenting grapes and have had trouble walking with either of my feet since then. :P

This also seems to be my general malady! I'm glad I'm not alone! :D

¤=[Post Update]=¤


Isn't this post just an attack on other forum members.?

Kai: In what aspect?

[Flash]

Isn't this post just an attack on other forum members.?

No it is not. It may only be a true opportunity to discuss both paths with different definitions and without being censured. Thanks Milneman for your guts. Plus, you write quite well.

[Milneman]

Isn't this post just an attack on other forum members.?

No it is not. It may only be a true opportunity to discuss both paths with different definitions and without being censured. Thanks Milneman for your guts. Plus, you write quite well.

Yeah yeah and you have great wine and poutine. ;) Love you too sis.

[Grizz Griswold]

Of course, if you walk down the road on both feet, you'd find yourself at the stall where both peaches and apples are sold for a very fine price, and with no hopping required.

Problem is now that the stall down the road has plowed under their competition,
they are now known as Walmart and no longer have organic fruit, plus they now have
a monopoly and have jacked up their prices considerably.

I hope there's a moral to this story.

barry

[joeecho]

The right, center, and left foot paths are paved with good intentions, or, in keeping with the story line......a tractor grader.

Nothing like a tractor grader for repeating life's lessons over and over again....

[Chester]

Isn't this post just an attack on other forum members.?

It is likely that many folks are simply afraid to explore the depths... because often they at least intuitively know that if they do, they find where a self-deception has been carefully protected.

I understand this as I was much that way most of my life.

What I found fascinating in my attempt to have a high level discussion was to try and find where the sub branches of Left Hand Path went their various ways... and some to places most of us all agree are quite dark.

Of course, few here have yet to register in their lovely brains the fact that Gnosticism is quite LHP.

Few here are able to recognize that if you want to place the being "Jesus" (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?61859-The-real-Jesus-the-real-Mary-Gnosis-the-Archons-and-the-world-s-first-major-smear-campaign) as he was portrayed in much of what are known as the Gnostic Gospels (the Nag Hammadi Library) anywhere on the spectrum of RHP (as I had provided definitions for) and LHP (as I had provided definitions for) then our hero once again registers as extremely LHP.

Just because one wants to bring forth a solidified, individuated and immortal vessel where "you" might bridge all your disconnects and emerge as your own being amongst many who have also achieved to some extent the same thing and where you are no longer held hostage by some Yahweh type "One and Only GOD thingie" does not make you a baby eating, blood drinking, necropheliac pedophile.

The whole point was to pull out of the LHP what most of us might view as "good" such as the acceptance of personal responsibility for one. In fact, if we could ever identify one single trait missing amongst most of humanity on earth at this time - it is that one. But hey... what do I know?

Anyways - you can become "realized" - that all you are is awareness and note, those "sages" never say you are a awareness. So I ask you... how many of us are this awareness? Can we tell each other from each other? If you follow my point and admit the truth... no you can't. And that is "selfless" my friends. There is no separate self. Ask Mooji - the separate self is an illusion... ask Ramana Maharshi - illusion...

This is what RHP tells you if you follow the path to "nirvana" and eventually reach full blown, total "end of self" (which is also known to be self-annihilation).

Now I don't claim to know what is possible or not. But I will tell you what I buy into... and I buy into the idea this is a free-will universe. And thus if it is, I can decide to become an immortal being or I can end it all or I can flounder along clueless to it all and then who knows where I might end up.

The Gnostic view that I have embraced (and there are many variations) is that I can do this and I don't have to be some evil satanist or some sort of black magician that performs rituals to "get my way" over the will of others. What I did (and do every moment of every day) is I entered into the Sacred Marriage with the Divine Feminine. I then opened to The Light which I happen to see as Christ/Lucifer). Those are archetypes to me and nothing more but nothing for me is more important than this Sacred Marriage.

Anyways - I will leave all of this now as it is real clear that hardly anyone here that has not actually done their homework is open to any real open minded discussion save you, KaiLee and well... it also appears your are jumping into the homework.

It makes sense why so many who obtain "Gnosis" find that more often than not... silence is best.

[joeecho]

Now I don't claim to know what is possible or not. But I will tell you what I buy into... and I buy into the idea this is a free-will universe. And thus if it is, I can decide to become an immortal being or I can end it all or I can flounder along clueless to it all and then who knows where I might end up.


Another perspective on your interesting post justone:

As grand as what you conveyed here is, and it is grand, have you ever considered that it is still part of the tapestry that is the grand illusion? Are you sure you have achieved escape velocity?

Peace

[Chester]

Now I don't claim to know what is possible or not. But I will tell you what I buy into... and I buy into the idea this is a free-will universe. And thus if it is, I can decide to become an immortal being or I can end it all or I can flounder along clueless to it all and then who knows where I might end up.


Another perspective on your interesting post justone:

As grand as what you conveyed here is, and it is grand, have you ever considered that it is still part of the tapestry that is the grand illusion? Are you sure you have achieved escape velocity?

Peace

Since I was addressed directly - my answer is YES! that all form is illusory - ALL. Yet at the same time there is a mystery that "I" (Sam) am "here" (sitting in my chair typing) and "you" (anyone else) is not "here" (sitting in my chair typing). So I embrace "me" (Sam and Sam's story) and "you" and your story with vigor. I call this "living the gift of Life" to the fullest.

And despite living amongst those who prefer seeing this "other ways" I (Sam) wish my experience (as Sam and after Sam's bodily death as Sam's individuated essence) for as long as I wish... eternity perhaps OR, if the being behind what is here and now known as Sam has enjoyed the illusion enough, I may chose the RHP destination of self-annihilation.

It makes no matter to me what anyone's desire might be in this regard. Yet it is hard for me to ignore the thought that we could all share an improved collective experience by getting up to speed and shedding our ignorance. I used to think Avalon was a place for this. Sadly, I am beginning to reconsider this despite that Avalon played the key role in my own emergence from my own prior, self-imposed stupidity.

Bill said Avalon is much like a university. This leaves room for graduate students, teachers, professors, research studies, etc. But if a particular university becomes overwhelmed by censure from an ignorant mass, then perhaps there's other similar institutes which maintain higher standards.

[Chester]

UPw-3e_pzqU

http://arctogaia.com/public/eng/gnostic.htm

The Gnostic

"There comes the time to unclose the truth, to make a spiritual essence of what boots-licking average people define as "political extremism". We have confused them, changing the registers of our political sympathies, the colouring of our heroes, passing from fire to cold, from "rightness" to "leftism" and back again. All this was only intellectual artillery preparation, some kind of an ideological warm-up.

We have frightened and tempted both extremely right and extremely left, and now both have lost their guiding lines, both have been got off the beaten tracks. This is wonderful. As great Evgeniy Golovin loved to reiterate: "The one who goes against the day, should not be afraid of the night". There is nothing more pleasant than a feeling of the ground slipping away under your feet. This is the first flight experience. It will kill the vermin. It will steel the angels.

Who we are, actually? Whose threatening face is appearing clearer day by day behind the paradoxical radical political current with the frightening name "national-bolshevism"?

Today it is possible to answer this question without equivocacies and evasive definitions. Though with that end in view it is necessary to make a brief digression into the history of spirit.

The mankind has always had two types of spirituality, two paths — "Right Hand Path" and "Left Hand Path". The first one is characterized by the positive attitude to the surrounding world; the world is seen as harmony, equilibrium, good, peace. All the evil is viewed as a particular case, a deviation from the norm, something inessential, transient, without deep transcendental reasons. Right Hand Path is also called "The Way of Milk". It doesn’t hurt a person, it preserves him from radical experience, withdraws from immersion into suffering, from the nightmare of life. This is a false path. It leads into a dream. The one going by it will reach nowhere...

The second path, the "Left Hand Path", sees all in an inverted perspective. Not dairy tranquility, but black suffering; not silent calm, but torturous, fiery drama of splitted life. This is "A Path of Wine". It is destructive, terrible, anger and violence reigns there. For the one who is going by this path all reality is perceived as hell, as the ontological exile, as torture, as immersion into the heart of some inconceivable catastrophe originating from the heights of space. If in the first path everything seems as good, in the second — as evil. This path is monstrously difficult, but only this path is true. It is easy to stumble on it, and it is even easier to parish. It guarantees nothing. It tempts nobody. But only this path is the true one. Who follows it — will find glory and immortality. Who will withstand — will conquer, will receive the award, which is higher than life.

The one going by the "Left Hand Path" knows, that one day the imprisonment will be over. The prison of substance will collapse, having transformed into a celestial city. The chain of the initiated passionately prepares a desired moment, the moment of the End, triumph of total liberation.

These two paths are not two different religious traditions. Both are possible in all religions, in all confessions, in all churches. There are no external discrepancies between them. They appeal to the most intimate features of a person, his secret essence. Those paths cannot be chosen. It is they that choose a person as a victim, as a servant, as a tool, as an instrument.

The Left Hand Path is called "gnosis", "knowledge". It is as bitter, as knowledge, it generates grief and cold tragedy. Once in antiquity, when the mankind still attached decisive significance to the spiritual aspects, gnostics developed their theories at a philosophical level, as a doctrine, as cosmological mysteries, as a cult. Gradually people degraded, ceased to pay attention to the realm of thought, sank into physiology, search of privacy, homelife. But gnostics did not disappeared. They transferred the dispute to the level of things, understandable to modern average people. One of them proclaimed the slogans of "social justice", developed the class struggle theories, communism. "The Mystery of Sofia" became "class consciousness", "struggle against malicious Demiurg, creator of the damned world" gained the character of social battles. The threads of ancient knowledge lead to Marx, Nechaev, Lenin, Stalin, Mao, Che Guevara....The Wine of socialist revolution, pleasure of revolt against forces of fate, sacred berserk passion to total destruction of all that is black for the sake of finding new, unearthly Light...

Others opposed the secret energy of race, the murmur of blood to the commonness. They erected the laws of cleanliness and new sacrality, proclaimed the return to the Golden Age, the Great Return against mixture, degradation. Nietzsche, Heidagger, Evola, Hitler, Mussolini shrouded the gnostic will into national racial doctrines.

That’s true that communists had no particular interest in workers, and Hitler — in Germans. But by no means due to their cynicism. Both were overwhelmed by a deeper, more ancient, more absolute aspiration — common gnostic spirit, secret and terrible light of the Left Hand Path. No workers, no "aryans"... That’s horse of a different colour.

Creative personalities also invoked on the Left Hand Path, on a path of gnosis swang to and fro between the "red" and "black", the "white" and "brown", rushed in spiritual searches. Being confused by the political doctrines, going into extremes, being unable to express clearly the metaphysical contours of their possessions, the artists from Shakespeare up to Arteau, from Michelangelo up to Max Eemans, from troubadours up to Breton feeded themselves with a secret wine of suffering, imbibing greedily in the society, in passions, in sects and occult brotherhoods the separate fragments of the terrible doctrine depriving you of an opportunity to smile. Knights Templars, Dante, Lautreamont... They never smiled. It’s the sign of special choseness, trace of the monstruous experience, which was common to all the "travelers of the Left Hand Path". A gnostic surveys our world with his heavy look. The same look as his precursors, links of an ancient chain of the chosen, chosen by the Horror had. The repelling pattern appears to him. The West distracted in its consumer psychosis, the East — disgusting in its slow-wittedness and miserable obedience. Drowned world, planet laying at the bottom.

"In underwater woods the impulse is useless and the gesture is ceased..." (Evgeniy Golovin)

But gnostic will stay adherent to the life-work. Never, neither today, nor tomorrow. On the contrary, there are all reasons to triumph internally. Haven’t we told the naive "Right Hand Path" optimists where their excessive ontological trust will get them to? Haven’t we predicted the degradation of their creative instinct into that grotesque parody which is represented by modern conservatives who have resigned to everything, that horrified their more attractive (but not less hypocritical) precursors a pair of thousands of years ago? They haven’t listened to us... Now let them blame only themselves and read the "New Age" books or marketing manuals.

We have forgiven nobody; we have forgotten nothing.

We have not been deceived by the change of social scenery and political actors.

We have a very good memory, we have very "long arms".

We have a very severe tradition.

Mazes of life, spirals of ideas, vortexes of anger..."

[joeecho]

Bill said Avalon is much like a university. This leaves room for graduate students, teachers, professors, research studies, etc. But if a particular university becomes overwhelmed by censure from an ignorant mass, then perhaps there's other similar institutes which maintain higher standards.

......or, the same thing could happen in that mythical place.

Everything has it's cycle.

I suppose one could jump from cycle to cycle before the wash is complete but that would also be it's own cycle.

(I definitely hear you justone and have experienced that perspective but I have witnessed others as well.)

[Chester]

Bill said Avalon is much like a university. This leaves room for graduate students, teachers, professors, research studies, etc. But if a particular university becomes overwhelmed by censure from an ignorant mass, then perhaps there's other similar institutes which maintain higher standards.

......or, the same thing could happen in that mythical place.

Everything has it's cycle.

I suppose one could jump from cycle to cycle before the wash is complete but that would also be it's own cycle.

(I definitely hear you justone and have experienced that perspective but I have witnessed others as well.)

An LHP practitioner chooses their perspective as well as outcome.

An RHP practitioner submits to cycles.

Enjoy your choice.

[Wind]

You made me laugh, if that was your intention then clearly you've succeeded in it!

[joeecho]

UPw-3e_pzqU


I see the humor in that clip.

I call it the Grand Tease! :)


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3rtdckItsx0

[joeecho]

An LHP practitioner chooses their perspective as well as outcome.

An RHP practitioner submits to cycles.

Enjoy your choice.

Okay, well, follow that path then. I think they cancel each other out in the grand scheme.

[Delight]

Thanks Milneman,
R U a profit or psychic? Should I invest? "both sides had gathered quite a following and they would alternate between hopping on one foot and eating fruit" (hehe)

I thought of a poem...

Righty left Lefty, right?
Why? It was just because:
She was right!
But Righty, right?, left Lefty a scathing note.
It undermined Her position.
It left Lefty right.

Major edit:
Not meaning a dig at you.
The poem was about how the argument is an argument of last impressions on rightness not being able to have one with arguments on two sides and the last pointedness making a swing proves no point and no one wins really.
The two cannot argue without the other.

[Grizz Griswold]

I think this puts it all into proper perspective.

MPMmC0UAnj0

Love
barr

[Chester]

An LHP practitioner chooses their perspective as well as outcome.

An RHP practitioner submits to cycles.

Enjoy your choice.

Okay, well, follow that path then. I think they cancel each other out in the grand scheme.

Which would be the definitive RHP destination... and as of now, I delay my self-cancellation.

Great movie (Meet Joe Black)... interestingly though is the question? - Where do they walk off to? "final cancellation" or... Valhalla (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Valhalla)?

Funny side note... "Nothing is certain but death and taxes."

Well... I am still alive and will be alive well after the death of my body and anyone who knows my personal story also knows I essentially "got away with" not having to pay well more than a million in taxes!

So perhaps the more accurate statement might be... "Nothing is certain... nothing."

[Shezbeth]

The two cannot argue without the other.

Certainly not, but the argument is not just about which path is preferable. The LHP does not seek to be 'correct', it seeks to be 'sovereign'. The RHP however has a vested interest in being/maintaining it's position (predominantly in the mind of its adherents) as 'the correct' path. Simply, the RHP could not be 'correct' without an 'incorrect' alternative.

Ipsofacto, the RHP needs the LHP, but the inverse is not true. ^_~

[A Voice from the Mountains]

Well if I have to go somewhere I generally start with my right foot, followed by my left foot.

Sometimes if my right foot is already stuck out some ahead of my body, I'll take a first step with my left foot to balance it out some. :)

[Chester]

Thanks Milneman,
R U a profit or psychic? Should I invest? "both sides had gathered quite a following and they would alternate between hopping on one foot and eating fruit" (hehe)

I thought of a poem...

Righty left Lefty, right?
Why? It was just because:
She was right!
But Righty, right?, left Lefty a scathing note.
It undermined Her position.
It left Lefty right.

Major edit:
Not meaning a dig at you.
The poem was about how the argument is an argument of last impressions on rightness not being able to have one with arguments on two sides and the last pointedness making a swing proves no point and no one wins really.
The two cannot argue without the other.

Perhaps though our children lose if ignorance amongst the empowered masses prevails. Left doesn't tell you what's right... it tells you that you tell yourself. Right tells you what is right with zero wiggle room where eventually all that is left is entropy (self-cancellation). Which do we wish to hand our children?

[joeecho]

I think this puts it all into proper perspective.

MPMmC0UAnj0

Love
barr

LOL.

Reminds me of the saying..."Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me."

So what would have happened if they shook with the left hand?

Same agenda, same outcome.

That's what repeating history is like.....Shame on me.

[joeecho]

Great movie (Meet Joe Black)... interestingly though is the question? - Where do they walk off to? "final cancellation" or... Valhalla (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Valhalla)?


Where do they walk off to? The left. ;)

They exited stage left of course. No fuss no muss.

:)

[Delight]

Great movie (Meet Joe Black)... interestingly though is the question? - Where do they walk off to? "final cancellation" or... Valhalla (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Valhalla)?


Where do they walk off to? The left. ;)

They exited stage left of course. No fuss no muss.

:)

I apologize but I cannot take any of this seriously. I hop to some weird music today.
Second verse...

Lefty left (this time).
And Righty stayed right.
No matter.
They will get back together and walk down the aisle.
And they will dance at their own wedding.

edit
This has to be in my top 10 of favorite poetry bits of all time

"We shall not cease from exploration
And the end of all our exploring
Will be to arrive where we started
And know the place for the first time.
Through the unknown, remembered gate
When the last of earth left to discover
Is that which was the beginning;
At the source of the longest river
The voice of the hidden waterfall
And the children in the apple-tree
Not known, because not looked for
But heard, half heard, in the stillness
Between the two waves of the sea.
Quick now, here, now, always--
A condition of complete simplicity
(Costing not less than everything)
And all shall be well and
All manner of things shall be well
When the tongues of flame are in-folded
Into the crowned knot of fire
And the fire and the rose are one.

Little Gidding V,
Four Quartets.
-- T.S. Eliot (1943)"

and this is one of my favorite traveling songs

PFEefcARdY4

[Chester]

Great movie (Meet Joe Black)... interestingly though is the question? - Where do they walk off to? "final cancellation" or... Valhalla (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Valhalla)?


Where do they walk off to? The left. ;)

They exited stage left of course. No fuss no muss.

:)

And guess what that also suggests? The Angel of Death resigned.

[joeecho]

Great movie (Meet Joe Black)... interestingly though is the question? - Where do they walk off to? "final cancellation" or... Valhalla (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Valhalla)?


Where do they walk off to? The left. ;)

They exited stage left of course. No fuss no muss.

:)

And guess what that also suggests? The Angel of Death resigned.

Interesting. Do you have a reference to that?

Either way they exit the stage.

Two ways to exit. One that calls as much attention as possible to the ego before exiting (or afterward), perhaps a martyr role. You know, like a final 'look at me' moment. There are many examples of exit stage right moments even after 'death'. You have your statues, memorials, monuments, grave markers, and suicide notes.

And then you have the ones that call as little attention as possible before exit (and afterwards), as if they just magically disappeared while the observation/ distraction was going on elsewhere. Like footprints in the sand.

There is a message in no message. A sound in silence.

[Shezbeth]

Bill said Avalon is much like a university. This leaves room for graduate students, teachers, professors, research studies, etc. But if a particular university becomes overwhelmed by censure from an ignorant mass, then perhaps there's other similar institutes which maintain higher standards.

Here's the thing about it though! UNlike a university, there is no separation of classes. The 'graduate' students are all amassed with the 'freshmen', 'sophomores', 'juniors', and 'seniors' in a collective aggregate. On the one hand, this means that some 'classes' get distracted more than they could (ideally), but this also means that 'lower' level students can advance as per their potential and not through rigid advancement protocols.

Simply, those with the mettle can advance as per their ability, as opposed to waiting for the rest of the class to complete the course. This occurs in universities as well (course challenging) but in a far more formal and less-accessible manner. So while some students interfere with my studies (and to be sure, I do in theirs!), I feel that there is greater benefit to the 'student body' as I can directly benefit from participation with more advanced students/teachers (and likewise for others) who at a university, I might only see in the distance going to separate classes.

[joeecho]

Bill said Avalon is much like a university. This leaves room for graduate students, teachers, professors, research studies, etc. But if a particular university becomes overwhelmed by censure from an ignorant mass, then perhaps there's other similar institutes which maintain higher standards.

Here's the thing about it though! UNlike a university, there is no separation of classes. The 'graduate' students are all amassed with the 'freshmen', 'sophomores', 'juniors', and 'seniors' in a collective aggregate. On the one hand, this means that some 'classes' get distracted more than they could (ideally), but this also means that 'lower' level students can advance as per their potential and not through rigid advancement protocols.

Simply, those with the mettle can advance as per their ability, as opposed to waiting for the rest of the class to complete the course. This occurs in universities as well (course challenging) but in a far more formal and less-accessible manner. So while some students interfere with my studies (and to be sure, I do in theirs!), I feel that there is greater benefit to the 'student body' as I can directly benefit from participation with more advanced students (and likewise for others).

Very well said, Shezbeth.

Very little can be said in a lot and a lot can be said in a little.

Shezbeth says a lot.

<teasing>

[Chester]

Just to make sure I play fair - I think I may have made a few statements in the form of absolutes in relationship to "Gnostics" being Left Hand path oriented and if I did, I found an exception.

It appears the goal of some Gnostics is "to return to the pleroma."

In this video... this is addressed around 46:00 minute mark.

o20WrsvfXuU

If this is the goal of a Gnostic - it is an RHP goal.

Listening up through 52:50 it is clear John Lamb Lash has chosen the Left Hand path.

[NoNeedForAName]

Thank you Justone. I did not know the word 'pleroma'. It is a beautiful word that expresses part of my feelings very well.