Let's Investigate the Truth on Chakras

[Catsquotl]

Chacra's The training wheels of men.
I was first introduced to chacra's when I was about 18 years old.
Someone lend me their copy of Anodea Judith's Wheels of Life.
Having head some exposure already to Hatha Yoga and advaita vedanta books I read through the book and started doing some of the exercises regularly.
This was back around 1990, The new age ideas were just emerging and being popularized chacra's seemed to become the standard in those circle's Everywhere there were books, talks, workshops about chacra's. Every book about healing (hands of light by Barabara anna brennan) for instance.

Many of my first self-help groups I signed up for back then utilized some form of chacra meditation in their curriculum to ground, to clear, to heal, you name it.
It wasn't until oh say 2003-2004 The chacra's became alive through my studies of Ascension via the writings of Ascendpress and a few years later a group who were known as raising maldek. During those years I adopted a regime of 30 to 50 minutes of visualizations and meditation exercises to clear my chacra's from implants and impurities, Puff them up and speed their spinning rotation in order to heighten their vibrational quality. Infuse them with pastel colours of synthesis etc etc etc.

Then about 2 years ago I read George Kavassilas book Our universal Journey in which he pointed to a very different idea about the chacra's.
Namely that they were themselves a manipulation tool inserted by the gods. Somehow this idea of chacra's not being a natural part of our human make up resonated with me. The weeks after that i became pre-occupied with the whole chacra idea. I didn't even finish reading Georges book.

What I did do was instead of clearing and grounding and working with my chacra's i just observed them for a while.
I scoured the internet for stories and experiences of people who supposedly had removed their chacra system. And one day listening to how Laura Lee Mystica had removed hers on a podcast i turned my attention to my chacra and within a few minutes had unscrewed them from my system and let them dissolve into dust.

Feeling pretty good for the first few days. I noticed how my energy system felt more centred and whole. I even felt more connected to my surroundings and nature.
Sharing my story on a few forums back then I was well shocked to be honest about the feedback i had gotten. People seemed to go into full cognitive dissonance and told me for the most part I was the stupidest being on the planet for doing such a thing. So I investigated further. Asked those that could RV or otherwise get a reading from my chacra's to take a look and see for themselves.

The gist of reaction stated that instead of removing them I had succeeded in closing them completely. Making the compressed like tiny balls on a stick in the middle of my being and that I would die soon.
After a few days I received a message that someone who felt i was foolish to attempt such a thing had send her goddess/guide to investigate. That entity had seen me on the brink of a heart attack and took it upon herself to reinstate my chacra's.

All that had left me very confused and I decided to let the matter rest for a while.

Last week I was triggered by a thread on PA to take another look.(about 18 months after my initial removal and reinstatement of them. And felt I still resonated with the idea the chacra's are not a natural part of our make up even though we seem to be born with them in place.

In looking at the history of chacra I found no mention of the 7 system chacra's we are familiar with in the west until 1927. Before that there are mentions of chacra as far back as the 8th century, but those usualy consists of only 3 major centers. It wasn't until somewhere in the 1600's that a hierarchy of chacra was written about in several different structures.

This got me thinking.
What if around the 15/1600's AD some archonic plan was set in motion to overlay our energy system with 7 energy centers that would allow for easy manipulation of us humans. The chacra would be ideal to easily distort a little and have us believe we have to work with the concepts they represent. That way each human could be targeted in a variety of ways according to their energetic make up and level of awareness. If not manipulated they could be made to think they could gain enlightenment/ascension through working with them. Recieving small increases of awareness and "powers" if they worked with them long enough.

Now I realize many people have spend years working with their chacra's and built careers around them so its difficult to let go of pre-concieved idea's about them.
However on a forum full of truth-seekers I'd like to invite everybody to chip in and share your thoughts and idea's on the matter so we can hopefully find some truth about them.

It is not my intention to make this a flame war, so I urge everyone to think before posting and keep in mind this is about sharing and lifting possible veils. Not for putting down ideas that are differnt from yours..

With Love
Eelco

[gripreaper]

Interesting concept. All that I might add to this discussion at this current time, is that I'm pretty sure we are made of energy in the form of light. If we postulate that source is the pure undifferentiated white light, and that moving further into density we refract into the various frequencies of this light spectrum (think prism, the rainbow bridge), then why would explaining these varied frequencies as chakras be improper? Who cares how we arrange them or what we call them. How we transmit energy into the void of all that is, and how we receive energetic pulses from the void are all that matters to me.

Whether there are only three pulses or seven may be up for further inquiry, I suppose. The terrestrial frequency, the heart in the center, and the celestial frequency, could be. Why does the rainbow have seven colors?

[Catsquotl]

Thanks gripreaper,

For the purposes of debate I will ventilate my view as someone who feels the chacra are a false/imposed overlay.

From that perspective i'd say that 7 frequencies or 7 colors of a rainbow are parts of a whole. there was a unified white light which was broken appart into 7 sepperate frequencies. at that point the whole is no longer capable to express itself as a unified whole without an external intervention.

say you draw the 7 colors on a circular chart. You could only see white if yoi spin that chart very fast. however if the charts slow down again. it wouldn't be whole again.

of course one could say that these 7 frequencies are the building blocks of the whole. However I sense that we are so much more.
and the emphasis we put on the parts would be a distraction instead of a tool to become.

does that make sense?

With Love
Eelco

[betoobig]

This keeps my so intrigated... never felt nothing wrong with chacras, but it could make sense. Marielalero talks about "energetic blueprints" that have been put on us and that we should overpass in order to evolve. Not sure she was talking about chacras...
Thanks for sharing Casquoti and please keep on the issue.
Love

[gardener2]

Hello Catsouotl I agree totally with you, I am in early sixties and have had many spiritual experiences since early childhood just when I was building up the confidence to share these experiences, somebody really didn't want to know, so I wont elaborate but I do know from these experiences that you are right, please don't take my word for it, but I do value what you have to say and thank you for posting.

[naste.de.lumina]

The light is duality, particle and wave at the same time.

[Finefeather]

It is quite clear to me that those who have not actually witnessed chakras themselves would be easily fooled and convinced of anyone's ignorant ramblings, beliefs and claims about chakras.

The amount of fiction we can find on the internet and in books claiming all kinds of things in the realms of higher frequencies or dimensions or worlds is amazing.

So it would be quite naive of me to think I could convince anyone who has not had first hand objective experience of chakras what they actually are and actually do...but I am an optimist...so I will at least attempt a simple...inadequate as it will be...explanation.

I have done some out of body research on this idea to find where it came from, because it intrigued me, and it turned out to be quite interesting.

The idea of chakra removal stems from the false notion that chakras impede our consciousness growth and hense we need to remove them.

There are people who believe that chakras are implants from some really bad Ets flying around somewhere with nothing better to do than fitting chakras to us humans to prevent us from seeing the light.

Just recently I heard a good one...chakras are gateways for evil little gremlins, and not to mention demons and some wizards, who can take over our whole body and destroy our soul...and that will be the end of us.

So having come to these findings people, who have no idea of what they are actually doing, said...”right...let's sort this mess out and get rid of the chakras once and for all and foil these bad aliens and ETs and other baddies...and get on with our enlightenment”.

They then convinced all the ignorant that this was the whole truth and nothing but the truth and now there are a whole load of people who think they are walking around without a chakra in sight :)

So one day someone might be walking casually along this nice path in the forest on a beautiful day, checking out all the beautiful birds and things and suddenly in the corner of his/her eye will discover this huge heap of old used discarded chakras just lying there :)

So what are chakras really then?

First...Chakras are NOT training wheels...they are vortexes in ALL the different auric envelopes or bodies in which we, as true Selfs or monads, reside whilst incarnated.

If you are capable...and you can train yourself...you can see the first level ones, in the etheric body quite easily...the rest are more or less out of reach because of their high frequency rate and I have only been able to get a glimpse of these whilst out of body...and even then it depends on our level of consciousness reached.

They are different sizes and have different levels of activity, depending on the stage or level of consciousness each has attained...also known, maybe, as enlightenment.

Because of the extreme energy/consciousness levels from the Causal world...from were we come...we need a series of step down envelopes or bodies to convert or transform this energy to a level which would not burn or destroy the human organism...uncontrolled energy from atomic levels is mean stuff.

So each of these envelopes...starting from the organic body are...Etheric...Emotional/Astral...Mental...Causal...and there are higher but I am not going there now...have these chakras or vortexes in them which link the different envelopes or 'bodies'.

If any one of these would separate or become unlinked...which can happen in some extreme cases...the organism would suffer in some way because it has lost the connection to the Self...the real you...the same as when we finish each life...we need to disconnect from first the physical body...then the etheric envelope/body...then the emotional/astral envelope/body...then the mental envelope/body....Only now at this point are we closest to being our real Self...free of all the envelopes we needed to don to protect us...allow our consciousness through...and thus allow us, as true Selves, to incarnate.

These envelopes serve other purposes as well...like our feelings and our mental capabilities are also determined by them.

So what this means is that consciousness as well as energy is pouring through these envelopes and passes from the higher to the lower through the chakras...and if you never had chakras...which is just not possible because it is how we are made up...we would be like organic zombies with none of our hard earned state of being able to manifest in the brain consciousness.

Chakras need to be activated, refined, and their frequencies stepped up to allow greater consciousness and energy to pass down from higher realms to our waking consciousness...and we do this by becoming more and more refined in our natures and in the lives we live with others...

The quickest way to grow 'spiritually' is to serve others and begin to realise what unity and brotherhood are...and by living our lives giving unconditional love to all we meet and touch.

Knowing technical stuff about life is fine but if it interferes with our relationships with others then we have not found the truth because all truth leads to unity and consciousness growth.

Take care...and...Be love
Ray

[Ikarusion]

In looking at the history of chacra I found no mention of the 7 system chacra's we are familiar with in the west until 1927. Before that there are mentions of chacra as far back as the 8th century, but those usualy consists of only 3 major centers. It wasn't until somewhere in the 1600's that a hierarchy of chacra was written about in several different structures.

i dont see this as an issue or come to the same conclusion as you do because of it.
from my former investigation on the matter, it seems that a lot of "ancient knowledge" was lost for thousands of years.
however, if you look at other cultures, like asian ones you should find info on chakras or 7 main chakras before the 16th century.

also, if you read the corpus hermeticum, which was written down apparently between 300-700 ad. and as far as i know should be mostly a collection of things written on much older emerald tablets, in the first chapter there is a conversation between a meditating person and what seems to be higher creature calling himself the shepherd of men.

the shepherd explains how plantes and men were formed and hints/says that the 7 other planets of our system are also part of us. so basically he says each of the main chakras are representative of another planet in our system.

this is one of the reasons why i dont believe our chakras are something "new". i mean our bodies are apparently covered in them anyway.

[Finefeather]

Here is a pdf I would recommend if you have the time to read it...it is probably the best work on chakras on the planet...but don't take my word for each...give it a chance...
http://www.anandgholap.net/Chakras-CWL.pdf

[WhiteFeather]

Great Post Eelco, and if i may.

Deirdre L. Aragon
http://www.edgarcayce.org/uploadedImages/ARE/About_Us/Blog/ARE_Blog/dAragon_2011.jpg

Bio: A Laguna Pueblo Indian, who spent the early years of her life on the Laguna Pueblo Reservation in New Mexico. Her paternal grandmother and aunt, who were tribal healers, taught Deirdre the wisdom and teachings of her tribe. She was raised in a home where metaphysical principles and holistic healing were accepted and practiced as a way of life. During a near death experience when she was ten years old, Deirdre was given the "mark of the shaman" from the Spirit World. Accepting her abilities, Deirdre has designed several healing techniques based on her personal experiences and knowledge gained through various sources and is an active speaker. She is actively involved with A.R.E. in Northern Virginia and has participated in A.R.E. Search for God Study Groups since she was a child. She has been a student of the Unity Movement for over 15 years. You'll find her website Noble Minds, a companion on the path of enlightenment, online at Noble-minds.com. She is hosting a "Transformational Event" featuring A.R.E. author and lecturer Kathy Callahan, PhD, in Oakton, VA on Saturday, March 31, 2012. Visit her website for upcoming details


The Edgar Cayce teachings of the chakras, which are similar to the Hindu beliefs. Very few, however, are aware of the chakras as taught in the myths of the Pueblo Indians of the Southwestern United States. The following article gives a brief overview of these chakras according to traditional Pueblo teachings.

Like Edgar Cayce's readings, the Pueblos refer to the chakras as spiritual centers, which directly correlate to physical parts of the body. These centers or points form an axis in the body that is related to the polar axis of the Earth. Each center has its own vibration. These vibrations travel up and down the body's axis similar to the kundalini force of the chakras in the readings. The First People 1 of creation were given these points to remind them of their spiritual connection to both the Creator and the Earth. At the time of the First Creation the poles had not yet shifted to their current positions and the Earth energy flowed in a different direction than it does now. Therefore the energy of these chakras moves from the head down, rather than from the bottom up.

The first of these spiritual centers lies at the top of head. This is where the soul enters the body upon birth and exits upon death. As a person ages, this center hardens and the connection with the Universal Consciousness becomes less recognized. This explains why young children are more apt to see auras and spiritual beings. Their minds are still open to the possibilities Western Culture does not accept as reality.

The next vibratory center corresponds with the brain. The true function of this point was to help you understand the plan of the Creator and thus carry it out. The physical functions of the brain-thoughts and actions are considered to be secondary to that of the Creator's original plan.

Below the brain center lays the throat and place of speech. This center connects humankind to the "breath of life" in all creation. Through vocal prayers and praises humans are able to commune with the Creator from their physical existence on Earth.

Moving downward, the heart center represents the duality of nature and life. A person of true intent is said to be of One Heart, one purpose, and one ideal. If their thoughts and actions are not at one with the Universe they are said to have Two Hearts. Those of Two Hearts were the first to bring physical illness to humankind. The last spiritual center is at the solar plexus. It is the Throne of the Creator from which the spiritual life of the person is directed. It can be thought of as the central center of spiritual thought. Physically this is the center of digestion for the body.

Unlike the First People, who were more attuned to their spiritual connections, humankind today has two additional lower chakras. These are based in the physical realm and were not needed by the First People. As humans evolved through each successive world, we lost touch with the Creator's plan and became more focused on the physical world instead of our spiritual self.

Many prophecies from different cultures, including those of the Hopi Pueblo, say we are moving towards another pole shift. When the Fourth World ends and we move into the Fifth World, it is likely that humankind will see another change in our chakras. This time the change may be back to our less physical side, similar to the First People. In another generation, as we reconnect with our spirituality, human bodies may no longer have a need for the lower physical chakras. This will help humanity on our journey back home to the Creator.

According to Pueblo stories there are five worlds of humankind. The first three were destroyed because humans separated themselves from the Creator. We are currently in the Fourth World.

Link:
http://www.edgarcayce.org/are/blog.aspx?id=5224&blogid=445

[Realeyes]

So many threads over the years repeating this same old Georgie chestnut; he certainly knows how to grab attention and impact his followers. Isn't it curious that George even admitted he doesn't read books on purpose or look at other people's works of wisdom, nor ancient wisdoms our ancestors discovered and left for future times.............. who needs such when master George is reinventing the wheel. Such a shame he never found the purpose of the spiritual wheel within the wheel.:ohwell:

So yeah, with the Georgie idea of throwing out those pesky electrons, positrons and photons that just might be infested with Archontic influence (shaking in the bones sort of stuff) . We don't need those dimensional energy fields in our auric bands, that unexplored territory means nothing to the 'image', such is no longer fashionable and its important to be fashionable. Well whatever floats your boat as the saying goes, every experience is a learning. ;)

Imho, paranoia and superstition are well and truly in bloom with so many false prophets directing us. Please Discern, discern, discern and listen deep within yourself - you are and always will be your greatest teacher.

Anyway I will not post again on this thread, I've been here before on previous re-runs of this subject spending/wasting precious time when I could be doing somthing much more meaningful and mindful.

Good luck!

Catsquotl I thought the below might be useful for 'dates' - I did post these to you over a year ago.



Chakras are first mentioned in the Vedas, ancient Hindu texts of knowledge. Early text that provide the location of the chakras include: the Shri Jabala Darshana Upanishad, the Cudamini Upanishad, the Yoga-Shikka Upanishad and the Shandilya Upanishad. Hiroshi Motoyama in "Theories of the Chakras: Bridge to Higher Consciousness" discusses these text and that of 10th Century mystic Guru Goraknath who wrote in the Gorakshashatakam about awakening these energy centers through meditation.

According to Anodea Judith in her book "Wheels of Life", these early Hindu writings come from an even older oral tradition of the Aryan culture. This Aryan culture was believed to have invaded India during the second century B.C.E. bringing with it its culture and beliefs. Without going into depth into this version of the origins of the chakras and the associated Aryan controversy, it is interesting to note that chakras and auras are often associated with rainbows, for obvious reasons. Norse or Teutonic myth's World Tree, Yggdrasil, holds nine worlds and is graphically represented much like early chakra diagrams. These Norse and Germanic myths speak of a "rainbow bridge" that links the worlds of Midgard and Asgard. Heimdal, who is responsible for creating the three races as told in the "Song of Rig", is the guardian of this rainbow bridge and his domain is between the worlds.Freya Aswynn in her book "Northern Mysteries and Magick" discusses this to some extent in her description of the Runes of the Elder Futhark. Similarities between Teutonic Myth and the Chakra System are discussed on the "other systems and chakras" page. To learn more about one of the oldest Hindu hymns or songs, the Rig Veda, click here for "Commentary on the Rig Veda - The Planet's most Ancient Text by Sri Aurobindo". The theory of the Vedas coming from an older Aryan oral tradition is much debated. For further discussion see articles by David Frawley.

Rainbow colors and rainbow myths are present in many cultures. Two of the most noted in western culture are the rainbow that appeared as a sign to Noah after the flood and the Hopi rainbow warrior. In the "other systems and chakras" link, the relationship between the kabbalistic sefirot and the chakra system is discussed. The legend of the rainbow warrior is not discussed on this site, but is discussed in some detail in Rosalyn Bruyere's book, "Wheels of Light". Reverend Bruyere tells the story of the warrior who sought meaning in the rainbow of color that he saw around everything.

http://home.comcast.net/~chakra_system/chakra.html



https://41.media.tumblr.com/a56887963671e884913f6332e84c41f6/tumblr_mvdx1oNF7B1qbtrumo1_500.jpg

[guido]

hi all,

i do believe chakra's are not to "play" with.

According to the teachings of kriya yoga, when activating the 7 chakra's in the spine (by working with certain breath excersizes) one will get peace in mind and action.

I have to tell for me this worked, this helped me to get much more peace in life. Activating the chakra's is like magnitising the spine.

Its very subtle.

Kriya technique is a old technique and has a liniage of known teachers.
It was paramahamsa yogananda who already went to America in the 1920 to spread the kriya yoga in the west. It's these masters of yoga who knew and know about the chakra's.

According to their teachings, when the chakra's are fully open, the ida and pingela (seated in the spine) become the shushumna Than one becomes in the higher state of nirvikalpa samadhi.
There are more levels of samadhi. When a human being reached this high level of samadhi there is no breath and no heart beat and no body conscious for a while anymore.
One is One with divinity. The yogis say this is the route to break through the circle of life and death. When all chakras are fully open on the moment of passing away one will leave duality and conquers dead. This they call mahasamadhi.

I have to tell i myself belief this as thruth. Why? because when i became aware of my chakra's and (so to say worked with them) almost everything became lighter in my life or more easy to deal with.

I hope you will find your answers in your search into the chakra's. In my humble opinion chakras are for good use.
Than again might be very possible with using "wrong'" technics to get them more out of balance.

with love Guido

[loveoflife]

New age manipulation for kids here. No mention of closing the chakras down or for the need to protect oneself.

How To Open Your 7 Chakras - As Explained In a Children's Show

http://youtu.be/02FkMr21xOA

[Omni]

Witnessing what feels like a chakra dissolving is not a credible way to know if a chakra is there or not. I have been shown much technology affecting chakras and it would be very easy to create exactly what is described when they "dissolve" as an illusion.

My theory is the demonization of reincarnation and chakras is pure psy op origins... They have turned pure truths into tainted lies. In my view reincarnation is not a "trap", and chakras are not synthetic archontic control systems.

Chakras can indeed be controlled, and used against us at times though. I have been shown such first hand. Just like our mind's can be controlled against us at times... They are open source and have no firewall. I wrote an article on my blog about technological control of chakras that can be found here if anyone is interested:
http://omnisense.blogspot.com/2014/11/technological-control-of-chakras.html

[Gardener]

Chakras are ancient much older than 1500 years. It seems according to Hindu mythology they came about as a result of the descent into matter as a means to keep the connection with source creator (all that is).

Calling them chakras I am thinking gives them a sort of objectification, some tangible 'thing' for something that is transforming higher/faster energy into energy which is useful to us as bodies of matter. Helps to prevent burnout :). Inextricably linked to the kundalini and to the psyche, to the cosmos and to the All, and acting like press-studs to the various bodies as finefeather mentioned,

Forcing the kundalini energy to raise through the 'chakras' through certain practices, before the individual has reached an appropriate or individuated state of consciousness, is certain to have a detrimental effect on the psyche. It happens automatically as an individual works on raising the consciousness through serving others and understanding the psyche, bringing their energy under conscious control.

Its also a massive subject and impossible to do justice to until an individual has personally worked through the accumulated crap stored in the unconscious, otherwise this incredibly powerful energy could easily become misdirected through misunderstanding.

Best to leave well alone until the individual knows wtf they are doing. :)
C

[boutreality]

I kindly disagree with the notion that Chakras are natural or in anyway beneficial. Show me diagrams of which glands and organs they "control" and I see advance tech capable of resonating at quantum levels within appropriate molecules of cells to manipulate among other things, hormonal secretions; all are associated with at least one gland to my knowledge. The lower three (along the legs) are used specifically to interface with tech.

Another thing, my feet touch the earth and my entire physiological make up is comprised of a lot of sparking/shining sources of minute light (nervous system/mitochondria/ribosomes the latter two largely a chemical burn.) So is everyone's body, and your feet touch the earth, Where does your lowest Chakra of this 7 chakra system end? How far from the Earth's ground is that? Some questions that are in my view, worth consideration.

I too speak from experience, yes genuine experience with real chakras. My further thoughts on them are already posted and I too seek to convert no one. My only line of thinking here is to provide an alternative view to the accepted mode. Yes true to me, and I feel it best that others don't just pick it up as if "here's the truth." If you're not in line for whatever reason disregard it. It changes nothing in my path and I wish everyone pleasant tidings in theirs.

[Jake]

Of course they are real.. I had a complete crown center blowout very recently... its been quite the balancing act... ive also had complete center clearing in mee heart center.. I do energy work daily... I broke my own rule regarding direct center stimulation.. I was mapping out the centers and the cucuits before I had ever heard or read about them.. there is much more to them than a simple energetic component.. I have heard of folks paying big bucks for chakra removal.. I guess money changes everything..

if I pull a muscle in my leg,, I do not assume that my leg is an archontic implant.. if another person has a stronger, physique,, I do not assume archontic manipulation. If I have a leach on my foot,, I do not cut off my foot,,, I remove the leach.. The ancient Egyptians wold not even bother to preseve the brain in their mummification process. They must have read somewhere that brains are useless...

I had to get the energetic events in my life under control, and never really had the luxury of speculation... must be nice...

Ive done quite a bit of research into the subject after someone brought it up about a month ago... Chakra removal is a brand new concept...
10,000 dollar question... I have been able to witness energy centers in cats and dogs and ducks... Differnt makeups, but enegetic systems, nonetheless.. Did the archons put them there to control and manipulate them??

Jake...

[Wind]

I can't "see" chakras, but I know that they're there and natural part of us. I have rarely meditated by doing the chakra meditation and I do feel how my spine gets all energized and it can be quite an intense feeling, but I have never tried to force anything, I only feel the warm tingling energy rising and it usually stops around at my throat chakra, the heart chakra usually feels quite tingly and expands. Sometimes the energy rises to third eye and even to crown chakra and then I may start to get the REM-visions and feeling of electricity... But it's funny, now that I started to talk about I can already feel the energy once again in my spine and in some chakras, I'm not sure if it's the kundalini energy.

True spirituality is about balancing and maintaining equlibrium, not attaining some special powers or enlightenment. Enlightenment will come once the individual has processed all the accumulated stuff, but that might take lifetimes. Until you have arrived to the lifetime when you are ready to embrace that kind of new state of (vibrational) being.

[Catsquotl]

First of I'd like to thank all of you for your time to think and write about the subject.
You have certainly given me much to think about.

Realeyes I am sorry, but i have either forgotten or never read the list of books you refer to. I will certainly investigate. As the fact i could not find written texts about our chacra system from before the 1600's although many said they were there i didn't find them yet.

To clarify I am not talking about the removal of every energy center one can find within their body. Having been scooled in TCM and shiatsu I can vouch for energy manipulation through accupressure or puncture. I am not saying the chacra are not "real" either. They are certainly there and can be utilized in various ways.

As I said before I am not a seer. I do feel though I know certain things or resonate with certain concepts and let synchronisity do the rest. Sure that's about as reliable as guessing the grains of sand in a jar, but when it comes to life I have found it to be the best way to navigate its waters.

Which brings me here. I see people here certain they exist and are part of their natural makeup. Then I see those that are certain they aren't and those that don't know.

So maybe a better question would be how can we be sure of something. Does it matter or is the fact we all look human not a guarantee we share the same energetic makeup.

For now I feel anyway that the concepts of the 7 or 13 chacra system do not symbolize my energetic make-up.
My center is located in my chest area, a little below where the heart chacra supposedly sits. The times I am aware and flow from that center I feel more whole, more human, more me than the times i choose my way to breath (low center) or think (high center), my seeing, or vizualisation is more akin to imagining a story so my 3d eye center does not function as it should be.

Of course i can list all the drawbacks I recieved from chacra work as "failure" to cleanse, grow or evolve propperly. I could also state i should let it come to fruition by itself. Doing that however does not help me live a happy fulfilling life. It messes with my self-esteem and more than once created more discord that it did me any good.

I'm sorry, but am a bit pressed for time right now.
Thanks again.. I'll be back

With Love
Eelco

[heyokah]

During my studying of Raja Yoga (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/R%C4%81ja_yoga), some 25 years ago, we had to study "The Yoga Sutra's of Petanjali", "Hata Yoga Predipika" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ Yoga_Sutras_of_Patanjali)written by Svāmi Svātmārāma and ****"Science of the Soul (http://www.vedicbooks.net/science-soul-practical-exposition-ancient-method-visualization-soul-p-16403.html)" by Swami Yogeshwaranand Saraswati.

Although I learned a lot about the chakra system during this study (as a sort of an extra), the chakras weren't mentioned in any of the tree books, nor was the concept of Kundalini. The nadis (ida, pingala and sushumna) were.

I've always been surprised about that.

****UPDATE

After taking out the book 'Science of the soul' and re-reading it a bit, I saw the chakras were mentioned in there.
This actually was the book we used as students to get deeper into the chakra philosophy.

It is said in the book:

"One can take the description given here entirely literally. Although the experience and interpretation of various practitioners vary, the underlying reality of the chakras is constant, despite the small variants of the formal knowledge.

Because true knowledge of the chakras lies in the experience itself and not in mental formulations and descriptions, the practitioner is encouraged to bring to life this reality by his own meditative vision."

[A Voice from the Mountains]

This thread reminds me of a presentation I just happened to watch last night, which explained chakras to me in a clearer (at least more scientific) way than I'd heard explained before.

jexT5VUyZ7U


This guy discovered the basic geometric shape of the heart, and it is a shape which gives rise to a vortex. So energetically the heart creates a vortex which takes "higher frequency" energies and acts as a de-accelerator to bring them down and solidify them into physical reality. This reminds me of Einstein's idea that mass is simply equivalent to energy divided by the speed of light, meaning essentially that mass can be compared to light which is no longer traveling so damned fast, but is "frozen" in a sense.


Interesting thread, I hope you guys find what you are looking for. :)

[heyokah]

During my studying of Raja Yoga (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/R%C4%81ja_yoga), some 25 years ago, we had to study "The Yoga Sutra's of Petanjali", "Hata Yoga Predipika" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ Yoga_Sutras_of_Patanjali)written by Svāmi Svātmārāma and "Science of the Soul (http://www.vedicbooks.net/science-soul-practical-exposition-ancient-method-visualization-soul-p-16403.html)" by Swami Yogeshwaranand Saraswati.

Although I learned a lot about the chakra system during this study (as a sort of an extra), the chakras weren't mentioned in any of the tree books, nor was the concept of Kundalini. The nadis (ida, pingala and sushumna) were.

I've always been surprised about that.

****UPDATE

After taking out the book 'Science of the soul' and re-reading it a bit, I saw the chakras were mentioned in there.
This actually was the book we used as students to get deeper into the chakra philosophy.

It is said in the book:

"One can take the description given here entirely literally. Although the experience and interpretation of various practitioners vary, the underlying reality of the chakras is constant, despite the small variants of the formal knowledge.

Because true knowledge of the chakras lies in the experience itself and not in mental formulations and descriptions, the practitioner is encouraged to bring to life this reality by his own meditative vision."


I will give some information about the three fundamental nadis ; ida, pingala and sushumna.

~~~

Sadhguru speaks (http://www.ishafoundation.org/blog/yoga-meditation/demystifying-yoga/the-three-fundamental-nadis/)about the three fundamental nadis or energy pathways in the system, the Ida, Pingala and Sushumna. ~

Sadhguru: Within the spine, if you know its physical construction, you will know there are two holes on either side of the spine which are like conduit pipes for all the nerves to pass.
This is the Ida and the Pingala, the left and the right channels.

In the Pranamayakosha or the energy body, there are 72,000 nadis.
The 72,000 nadis spring from three basic nadis – the left, the right and the central – the Ida, Pingala, and Sushumna.
The word “nadi” does not mean nerve. Nadis are pathways or channels of prana in the system.
These 72,000 nadis don’t have a physical manifestation. In the sense, if you cut the body and look in, you will not find them.
But as you become more aware, you will notice the energy is not moving at random, it is moving in established pathways. There are 72,000 different ways in which the energy or prana moves.

The Ida and Pingala represent the basic duality in the existence.
It is this duality which we traditionally personify as Shiva and Shakti. Or you can simply call it masculine and feminine, or it can be the logical and the intuitive aspect of you.
It is based on this that life is created. Without these two dualities, life wouldn’t exist as it does right now.
In the beginning, everything is primordial, there is no duality. But once creation happens, there is duality.

When I say masculine and feminine, I am not talking in terms of sex – about being male or female – but in terms of certain qualities in nature.
Certain qualities in nature have been identified as masculine. Certain other qualities have been identified as feminine.
You may be a man, but if your Ida is more pronounced, the feminine may be dominant in you.
You may be a woman, but if your Pingala is more pronounced, the masculine may be dominant in you.

Bringing a balance between the Ida and Pingala will make you effective in the world, it will make you handle life aspects well. Most people live and die in Ida and Pingala; Sushumna, the central space, remains dormant.
But Sushumna is the most significant aspect of human physiology. Only when energies enter into Sushumna, life really begins.

Vairagya

Fundamentally, Sushumna is attribute-less, it has no quality of its own. It is like empty space.
If there is empty space, you can create anything you want.
Once energies enter into Sushumna, we say you attain to Vairagya.
“Raga,” means color. “Vairag,” means no color, you have become transparent.
If you have become transparent, if what is behind you is red, you turn red too. If what is behind you is blue, you turn blue too. If what is behind you is yellow, you turn yellow too. You are unprejudiced.
Wherever you are, you become a part of that, but nothing sticks to you.
Only if you are like this, only if you are in a state of Vairag, then you will dare to explore all dimensions of life when you live here.

Right now, you are reasonably balanced, but if for some reason the outside situation goes crazy, you will also go crazy in reaction to that because that is the nature of Ida and Pingala. It is reactive to what is outside.
But once the energies enter into Sushumna, you attain to a new kind of balance, an inner balance where whatever happens outside, there is a certain space within you which never gets disturbed, which is never in any kind of turmoil, which cannot be touched by the outside situations.
Only if you create this stable situation within yourself, you will dare to scale the peaks of consciousness.

[GloriousPoetry]

Catsquotl,

I am someone who had a full on full blown kundalini energy release back in 2004 and felt every chakra point from my sacrum up to my brain and crown.......it was a living hell for 4 months.....the only thing that kept me sane was the belief that it was a positive experience as the new agers believe it to be an enlightened experience. Ten years later after much introspection of the energies I felt and things I saw within those 4 months I am with you about it being a fragmented representation of who we really are. I remember towards the end of the 4 months I saw colorful rings emanating from my right side and on a soul level I recall linking them to the planet Saturn. I came across George Kavassilas' work in 2013 and bingo he connected the Saturn detail for me. I agree with George Kavassilas about kundalini energy being a synthetic energy linked to the planet Saturn from undesirable entities. I'm not sure if he considers the chakras also synthetic but the kundalini energy that runs through them is indeed not organic to planet earth. Today I can't tell you if my chakras are completely gone....I hope so.......I also agree with George Kavassilas about living a more powerful life through the heart center of your soul essence which is really who we really are...

Many Blessings,

Gloria

[boutreality]

Jake, I don't think whether or not Chakras are real is at issue. Clearly there are at least two sides to this notion; both of which saying they're real. I'm certain at least some of both sides would say they are not speculating.

[A Voice from the Mountains]

If we just step back from all these words (chakras, kundalini, etc.), and look at the body from a western/scientific perspective... let's just think about this for a second:

The brain, heart, kidneys, liver, lungs, intestines, etc., are all energy centers in the body that have different kinds of energy, use it in different ways, and produce different results, all necessary for our body to function. That's just the fact of the matter, that we have bodies here, they have organs and the organs use energy to do stuff.

So then we can step back another step and look at the idea that physical/material things arise from non-physical/immaterial things. Science is now beginning to stick its nose into this with the quantum and multiple dimensions stuff, but this idea has always been around influencing belief systems and ways of looking at the universe.


So if we just play with these ideas, we can see how the organs in our body can be connected to non-physical energy, and I really believe our spirit or soul has a big impact on how our bodies manifest. As far as kundalini, I don't know what that is. I mean I've heard talk of it for years but I have no idea what it actually is or if it's good or bad. But there is some energy system to the body that IS natural.


Another idea here, if, à la Simon Parkes, we can have different percentages of ET genetics inserted in our DNA or soul as if in a waveform, then maybe this also has something to do with how the body physically manifests and the energy systems within it.

[ghostrider]

I read up on this topic , and what the plejaren Quetzal an ET doctor from the planet Erra had to say ... He says , every moving life form has both positive and negative energy , balance in all things ... cosmic electromagnetic life energy flows in the body of conscious or instinct conscious life form, humans , animals , fish , plants ... the human body has two forces in balance -cosmic electromagnetic life energy ... passive cosmic electromagnetic life energy represents the negative- feminine , receptive , while positive represents male , warmth , light , two forces of the same life energy , both are present in every living thing, in balance at the same time ... the human body has 786 points where energy channels are ... the energy body is a field , a circle , they don't break it down in sections , they look at it as a field of energy ... when the two opposing forces are out of balance , illness and suffering can occur ... when the two forces are in balance the human is healthy... I found out acupuncture goes back millions of years and the Chinese adopted a version of it ...the ET's say acupuncture does work and does help the body... http://www.futureofmankind.co.uk/Billy_Meier/Contact_Report_216consciousness and the psyche ... scroll to line 271 it's a long read but doctor Quetzal explains it in detail ...

[Pris]

I've never 'bought' into the whole chakra thing. It's something that I've been slightly intrigued about, but never enough to delve into deeply. The only thing I've ever 'felt' is being a great big ball of blue-white light. When I heard George Kavassilas's take on it, just like Catsquotl, it resonated with me. I thought, 'This guy is onto something.' That was awhile back and nothing has changed my opinion since.

What's 'real' to you, may not be 'real' to me and vice versa. You may be making chakra's 'real' for yourself simply by believing them into existence. The subconscious mind cannot tell the difference between what is real and what is imagined. Does that mean chakras are real? If you want them to be, absolutely. They will be physically/energetically real.

I feel the whole chakra thing is a distraction, a complicated way to so-called 'enlightenment'.

When anything sounds overly complicated to me, I'm not interested. If I have to join a special 'club' of people who 'know' what they're talking about, I'm not interested.

The more you 'know' the less you 'know'. We've heard this before, yes?

I like to 'know' a bit about everything. 'Knowing' too much about any given subject can prejudice your opinion. I'm as guilty of that crime as anyone. After all, how can you 'know' anything for sure? Lol!

Many have suggested that George Kavassilas is a nut. Excuse me, but here on Avalon, almost everyone is a nut -- me included. He doesn't stand out for me as a dangerous fruit-loop. Besides, nutty or not, what he said about chakras resonated with me. Beyond the idea 'resonating', I'm not interested in going much further with it at this time. If I hear something by chance/synchronicity that says I ought to pay closer attention, maybe I'll take a second look.

I'm also leery of anyone who says THIS IS HOW IT IS. Hah! That always cracks me up.

Fascinating subject, btw. :)

[kirolak]

This keeps my so intrigated... never felt nothing wrong with chacras, but it could make sense. Marielalero talks about "energetic blueprints" that have been put on us and that we should overpass in order to evolve. Not sure she was talking about chacras...
Thanks for sharing Casquoti and please keep on the issue.
Love

Interesting, Bettobig, I also follow Marielalero. . . . :)

[Catsquotl]

hmmm Reading through the commens I am thinking it is going to be very hard to unite these almost conflicting thoughts.
It does seem that most of the ones with a degree of certainty about the chakra being a natural part of our make-up somehow have spend more time with them, or are able to see/experience them directlysomehow, whereas I in any way have to work really hard to just get a glimpse of them.

I want to ask you if you have ever taken a astral look at somebody who claimed to have removed their chacra's.
What did you see?
The people that took a look at me when I removed them, before thay were reinserted. Saw I closed them to dan near small buds.

Anyway, I'll dive into some of the reccomended reading and do some thinking and meditating on the subject, before deciding to remove them again. (That way those that can see can watch) or just start pooring energy into the image of what i feel my system should look like.

What I find fascinating about this particular discussion is the fact that i can still somehow find a reason of why an overlayed chacra system would behave the way it does when people use arguments of why the chacra are a natural part.

One more point I'd like to make is that Indian(asian) philosophy relies heavily on a pantheon of gods.
wheras the chinese philosophy seems a more human (self) explored way of looking at reality.

Even though the chinese meridian system and the indian chacra/nadi system have some simmilarities.
The are way different in function, location and potential. Which I find inriguing

WIth Love
Eelco

[A Voice from the Mountains]

hmmm Reading through the commens I am thinking it is going to be very hard to unite these almost conflicting thoughts.
It does seem that most of the ones with a degree of certainty about the chakra being a natural part of our make-up somehow have spend more time with them, or are able to see/experience them directlysomehow, whereas I in any way have to work really hard to just get a glimpse of them.

It might be the case that you have to work very hard because you really are introducing something artificial into your body, whereas other people are just sensing and developing sensations and energies that are naturally present with little effort. As complex as the mind and body are (even without introducing a soul) it's hard to imagine how many possibilities there are here.

[Pris]

hmmm Reading through the commens I am thinking it is going to be very hard to unite these almost conflicting thoughts.
It does seem that most of the ones with a degree of certainty about the chakra being a natural part of our make-up somehow have spend more time with them, or are able to see/experience them directlysomehow, whereas I in any way have to work really hard to just get a glimpse of them.

I BET those who think chakras are a natural part of our make-up have spent more time with them. Of course they have. :)

It's not for lack of trying. When it comes to chakras, I just don't FEEL anything.

I think it's a great idea for someone to prove unequivocally that they are there. Is there some kind of camera that can capture them?

If so, it would be great to compare pictures of someone who says they've got 'em with someone who says they don't.

And, if the photos verify they're both right, and both people are healthy and happy, let it be!

[Pris]

Hey, I was just thinking how, in the movie 'The Matrix', right before Neo gets 'flushed' out of the system, all the tubes that were inserted into his body -- as part of the Matrix's control over him -- are violently pulled out. It's interesting that a whole line of them travel down his spine...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0WCcX0KQ9V0

[Finefeather]

I BET those who think chakras are a natural part of our make-up have spent more time with them. Of course they have. :)

There are actually people who know for sure that they are part of our natural make up...and that is why they spend more time refining them.
It is not entirely impossible that you are on this forum to gain some insight into the human system...you might even learn something.
Take care

[bluestflame]

chakras= energetic veils

[betoobig]

Thanks Kirolak... i´v been thinking ... a little..
Thare are, as far as we know, 7 chacras... we do have 7 biológical machanisims:
1- Timus gland
2- Heart
3- Cerebelum
4- Pituitarian gland
5- Talamus
6- Hipotalamus
7- pineal gland
This 7 fellows should work toguether as ONE, but they are disconected; if we could manage to conect them we will be MULTIDIMENSIONAL......
.... this info is from Marielalero and it kinds of confirm the fact that for multidimensionality no chacras needed...
¿That this sounds correct to anyone????

Love

[heyokah]

For the members who want to know more about the chakra system, whether installed or natural, I offer the following chart map with
- the primary qualities of each chakra,
- its corresponding location in the body,
- color vibration
- physical and emotional realms of influence,
- and its greater significance.

A full awaking of the chakras and the unblocking of the kundalini channel, the Sushumna, might need the guidance of a trained teacher.

However, we can turn our awareness towards these energy centres by concentrating on them, using visualization, and breathing techniques to safely improve their function.

Muladhara / Root Chakra

It is the seat of our security and supplies us with our most basic and instinctual survival skills.
It also resides over our earthy desires to possess, acquire, hoard and compete.
Thus all our basic fears and insecurities stem from this chakra.
When it is balanced we feel calm, secure, and connected to the earth We also feel grounded with ourselves, and have no dependence on external objects for our sense of security. We feel confident when energy flows freely in this chakra and we feel anxious and worried when it is blocked.
Energy flowing freely through the Muladhara is key to our physical and emotional abundance.
One of its greatest messages is to listen to the wisdom of our bodies.

- Location: Base of the spine, place where the sushumna originates and the kundalini resides around the root chakra.

- Colour – Red

- Element – Earth

- Purpose – Foundational / stabilizing

- Related to sense of smell
Suprarenal glands, prostate, Kidneys, bladder, spine.


When in balance, a person has good health, is well grounded, comfortable in their body, trusting and relaxed.

- If chakra is overly stimulated a person can be too possessive / grasping.

- If chakra is depleted a person can be fearful, ungrounded.

How to bring the chakra back into balance?

Reconnect with your body, yoga especially hip openers, exercise, restful sleep, gardening, pottery or clay work, foot massage.

Svadhisthana – sacral chakra

Svadhisthana means “one’s own abode.”
This chakra is connected to our need for social, emotional, and sexual expression and gratification. It relates to your right to feel and is a source of creative and sexual energy.
When energy is flowing in this charka we feel unlimited. We are able to problem solve and creative expression comes effortlessly.
When this chakra is balanced we have a healthy sense of I, with the desire to follow our own unique path, “You are totally unique, just like everyone else.”
The element associated with this centre is water signifying the need to learn to go with the flow.
When the chakra is healthy we value our own opinion and make decisions without fearing what others think. When the chakra is blocked, we can give way to uncertainty and indecision, even feelings of jealousy, anger, or guilt.
The second chakra connects us to others through feeling, desire, sensation and movement and it enriches our lives with a sense of fluidity, grace, depth of feeling, sexual fulfillment, and the ability to accept change.

- Location: Just above the genitals in the lower abs, inline with the sacral plexus

- Colour – Orange

- Element – Water

- Purpose – Movement & Connection

- Related to sense of taste
Gonads and reproductive organs, legs.

When in balance, a person has the ability to experience pleasure, is nurturing to others and themselves, possess emotional intelligence (not too moody) and is graceful.

- If chakra is overly stimulated a person can be manipulating & controlling.

- If chakra is depleted a person can be too co-dependent.

How to bring the chakra back into balance?

Hot aromatic baths, massage, pedicures, embracing sensations like different foods, explore new experiences with your senses, ie fresh flowers in the house, aromatherapy, taking the time to watch a sunrise or sunset, visiting an art gallery.

Manipura – solar plexus chakra

Manipura means “bright shiny gem” or “city of shining jewels.”
This chakra is associated with the element of fire! It rules our individual power, self esteem and vitality.
The message or lessons learned surrounding this centre come from the right to be ourselves, and to honour oneself. It also rules our metabolism.
When healthy this chakra brings us energy, effectiveness, spontaneity and non-dominating power.
When energy in this centre is blocked people can seem self absorbed, have an angry disposition and overly ambitious. If depleted people display subservient behaviour and low self esteem.
The manipura is the seat of our will power and can be a place of transformation; breaking the bonds of the ego to experience a deeper connection with our true selves.

- Location: The naval, inline with the solar plexus.

- Colour – Yellow

- Element – Fire

- Purpose – Transformative

- Related to our vision / sight
Pancreas, stomach, liver, gall-bladder

When in balance, a person is responsible, reliable, confident and has a warm personality.

- If chakra is overly stimulated a person can be self-absorbed.

- If chakra is depleted a person feel disliked with poor self worth.

How to bring the chakra back into balance?

Taking classes, reading informative books, mind puzzles, risk taking, ab exercises, deep relaxation and sunshine

Anahata / Heart chakra

Anahata means “unhurt” or “not struck.“
This chakra relates to our right to be loved and is connected to the element of air symbolizing equilibrium.
One who has energy freely flowing in the Anahata is compassionate, loving, peaceful, and balanced.
This chakra is associated with our circulatory systems, our blood, oxygen and heart. It is said to be the integrating chakra as it lies in the middle drawing the opposites of mind/body, male/female, ego/unity together.
If blocked a person can display poor emotional boundaries and if depleted one can seem ruthless and cold.
It is related to our feelings of self acceptance and when healthy allows us to love deeply and have a sense of peace and centredness.

- Location: centre of the chest, base of the heart

- Colour – Green

- Element – Air

- Purpose – Love & balance

- Related to sense of touch
Thymus, heart, liver, lungs, blood circulation.

When in balance, a person is loving, compassionate and peaceful.

- If chakra is overly stimulated a person can be inappropriately emotionally expressive.

- If chakra is depleted a person can be cold and have difficulty feeling emotion.

How to bring the chakra back into balance?

Taking walks in nature, time with family and friends, journaling and breathing exercises.


Vishuddha – Throat chakra

Vishuddha means “pure” or “purified.”
The throat chakra is connected to our ability to communicate and express ourselves. It relates to our right to be heard and to speak.
When in balance a person is a good listener and can clearly communicate his or her ideas. This chakra is also associated with our ability to surrender our will to the divine.
It is the first of the 3 “higher” chakras deeply connected to our spirituality and faith.
Therefore, if depleted a person can lack faith and be unable to express themselves.
In the extreme, when over stimulated a person can be prone to hurtful speech and a poor listener.
This chakra is related to our respiratory system and our auditory sense, therefore one of the most helpful ways to keep it in balance is to sing! Practicing awareness of our words, choosing them wisely is another way to help maintain free flowing energy in this centre.
When strong and well balanced we can express our truths without concern of criticism. We experience our world from this centre through the vibrations of sound such as music and language.

- Location: throat

- Colour – blue

- Element – ether

- Purpose – Communication

- Related to our auditory sense
Thyroid gland, throat, upper lungs, arms, digestive tract

When in balance, a person is a good listener and can clearly communicate.

- If chakra energy is in excess a person will be speak using hurtful words and will be a poor listener.

- If chakra is depleted a person can lack faith and be unable to express themselves.

How to bring the chakra back into balance?

Sing! Seek out meaningful conversations.

Ajna – Third Eye Chakra

Ajna means to “command.”
This chakra is related to our ability to perceive and connect to our intuition.
One whose third eye chakra is in balance has a desire to seek the truth and yearns to recognize unity in diversity.
This energy centre is related to our insight, psychic abilities and quest for self-reflection.
When healthy this chakra allows us to “see the big picture.” It is associated with a sense of individuality that knows it is part of something greater.
Meditation is one of the strongest tools to keep this energy centre in balance as is star gazing!

- Location: between the eyes, middle of forehead

- Colour – indigo

- Element – light

- Purpose – Intuition

- Related to our ability to perceive light, recognize pattern and seek the truth.
Pituitary gland, spine, lower brain, left eye, nose and the ears.

When in balance, a person is perceptive and has the ability to visualize.

- If chakra energy is in excess a person will be overly intellectual and analytical.

- If chakra is depleted a person can find it difficult to be clear in thought.

How to bring the chakra back into balance?

Mediation and star gazing!

Sahasrara – Crown Chakra

Sahasrara means “ thousand fold lotus petaled flower.”
This chakra is located at the top of the head and is our connection to pure Consciousness.
It is related to our desire to know the essence of ourselves .
One who has balance in this energy centre is spiritually connected and has an open mind.
This chakra is related to living in the present moment with trust that the universe is unfolding in the most evolutionary way. Connection to this chakra allows one to be aware of oneness, remembering that one is spirit in disguise.
This chakra brings us knowledge, wisdom, understanding, spiritual connection and bliss.

- Location: crown of the head

- Color – violet

- Element – thought

- Purpose – Understanding

- Related to our ability to connect to Consciousness
- Pineal gland - Upper brain and right eye

When in balance, a person is open minded and connected to spirit.

- If chakra energy is in excess a person will be an egomaniac, like an cult leader

- If chakra is depleted a person will have no spiritual connection or inspiration

How to bring the chakra back into balance?

Focus on dreams, writing down visions, insights, ideas and intentions.


~~~~

[Finefeather]

Chakras exist and are part of the human constitution...and that is that, as far as I am concerned.

But there is one significantly important reason why they should be turned into a circus...why great doubt should be placed in peoples minds about them...and why chakras are been claimed as an alien implant...and why we should do everything in our power to get rid of them.

Of course we cannot ever get rid of them but we can prevent their function from evolving...so those who will do anything to prevent us from enlightenment or consciousness growth will make up any story possible to derail our goal.

The black forces who prevent our consciousness growth have significantly infiltrated into the minds of the power hungry cabal...who are attempting to control the planet... and money given to equally dark people for concocting stories and systems to put doubt in the minds of the ignorant is a small price to pay to control mankind.

If you search google for "the truth about the chakras"...top of the list I found an article which explains why they are not real and have been implanted by ETs for some sinister reason...there are many more...all total disinformation.

It is no wonder that so many claims and presentations and beliefs exist right here on Avalon which are just the made up stories by the dark forces which ignorant people believe.

Disinformation is the easiest way to confuse most of us...simply because most do not know any better.

Disinformation is probably the biggest cause of conflict amongst people who regard themselves as friends or family.

Disinformationists will use the very name of the institution or organisation we have had such confidence in...write complete balderdash about them...and turn us into staunched haters of the very thing we thought we could trust.

Now I am a pretty ignorant person myself but there are things I know for sure and one of them is that there are some disinformation specialists on Avalon...and even they don't know it...because they have been indoctrinated with disinformation to the point that they are so good at handing out their disinformation that even the very people who say they want truth are totally unaware that they are been conned.

I have been involved in searching in every esoteric, religious, philosphical, guru system on this planet since the early 60s...and in all these years never did I come across any articles which claimed chakras were some artificial system of control. But strangely...just over the last years...has come a wave of disinformation from these dark forces...why?

Because many humans are starting to realise the part played by these dark forces...all over the world...and so they too now need to step up their deception.

Wake up people!..we are here to grow in consciousness...instead we are been fooled by the controllers...and guess what?

This makes us one and the same entity because a controller cannot be a controller if he has nothing to control...and there cannot be any controlled people if they do not want to be controlled.

Think about it...we may not be as clever as we think we are.

With love
Ray

[betoobig]

i, myself, am an ingnorant trying to conect the dots, to conect them i need to see/hear... sense all the dots, some may be for real some delusion... here will come my discerment... and then i will know something; But i really need to see all the possibilities. Nothing wrong with that. And i see a point here. I love your passion Finefeather and thanks for all the info.
Even if we think different WE ARE ONE, that´s how rich we are.
I asked Marielalero about the chacras, i am very interested in what she has to say. As soon as i get an answer i´ll post it.

Love

[Finefeather]

The sceptic and the believer have nothing in common...ask yourself honestly..."am I a sceptic or a believer?"

If we are a believer we have not one single thought or idea which we can call our own...everything we know, belongs to someone else...and then to top it off...that 'someone else'...who has moulded our belief...is more than likely a believer him/herself.

If we are a sceptic we have rejected the stories and claims of others because we have not personally experienced the claim...we can become attracted to the idea and we can set off and search for the answer ourself...with our own experience...which might be different to how others might experience it...and if we find truth in this claim...by our own testing and experiencing...we might have found truth...but only if we have been truthful to ourselves in how we have conducted our search.

If 2 or more people reach the same conclusion with different experiences we can be that much more sure that we have touched reality.

Truth should only be one thing...'that which conforms to reality'...but 'reality' has been seen to be different by people who have claimed to have had the same experience...this is obviously not reality...but our own created mental illusions of what we believe reality is.

When we know something we know it almost instantly because it comes from our sub-conscious where all our past experiences are waiting to be re-remembered by some unexpected meeting.

There is nothing that anyone can ever think of which is new...everything we think of has been known to us before...

You don't believe that? :) then pop off to your quiet room and try thinking about something that you have never known before...and take some cake...you'll be up all night :)

And don't confuse new with innovation...

Take care
Ray

[Catsquotl]

Really?
So who thought of chakra first then. who believed him and who searched for the image he was told he'd find?
Is there a 100th monkey effect when it comes to new ideas?

Can 4 people live in 2 different realities? or do they both live in their illusions and is none of real?
As i hinted at in another thread. thinking something entirely new is silence. not even the passing of time enetering your awareness. only after the fact we experienced it can we try to match what we learned based on old symbolisms we stored away in memory.

even if the concept of chakra are as old as people claim. The theory about them is formed from even older simmilarities. thats why they are supposedly connected to organs. Organs were older known things and hold certain energetical propperties. Combine a few and sort them under a few catagories. first seccond up to 7th and you have a system that may or may not work.

I don't doubt the validity of such a claim. What I do have a problem with is that the chakra seem to be one of the first things anyone learns when he embarks on a spiritual journey. Making it an almost to good to be true convenient thing.

With Love
Eelco

[betoobig]

i am a believer and i do believe you Finefeather( and your experience) and i do believe the preocupation about the issue of Castqoui(and his experience) and i believe i´m intrigued(thus living my experience)
From the experiences of most of the people chacras are cool, fine.... But could chacras have been implanted on us? Maybe...
and did they, whoever did the implant on us, have good intention? probably, due to the benefits of working with them, which is very well documented.

Love

[Finefeather]

Really?
So who thought of chakra first then. who believed him and who searched for the image he was told he'd find?
Is there a 100th monkey effect when it comes to new ideas?
Everything we know comes from knowledge from higher Beings...those who have gone before us...there is a huge network of highly advanced Super Beings which most have no idea about.

If you dig up something that you have no idea what it is...what happens?
You go search the archives and ask science and when there is no answer?
You start to pull it apart...examine it...taste it...etc etc...this is research, and then eventually majority sensus agrees on what it is...it is placed in records and now we think we know what it is.
But every single step of the way we have had to use what we know to work it out...even then it might not be what we think it is because humans don't know everything. Science is objective based...we already have come from a single particle we called the atom to now knowing that the atom is not solid. We did not know this, it was uncovered...as we became more conscious.
BY the way the 100th monkey effect is simpy a result of group or collective consciousness...it's effect does not guarantee truth or correct behaviour.



Can 4 people live in 2 different realities? or do they both live in their illusions and is none of real?
There is only one reality...everything else is illusion...in which 'reality' (using the word reality when it is not reality is confusing!) you are depends on your level of consciousness and your experience...and this happens all the time between lives. When we 'die' we live, first off, in the astral/emotional world in a 'reality' which we find best suits our current idea of the real reality...that of course does not mean that there is not a real reality in this confusing world.
Many people have been to this world, out of body, and even claimed they reached nirvana...such is the nature of this thought created illusive world.



As i hinted at in another thread. thinking something entirely new is silence. not even the passing of time enetering your awareness. only after the fact we experienced it can we try to match what we learned based on old symbolisms we stored away in memory.
Sorry I do not understand this...how can you think if you are silent?...And you cannot stop time as you are thinking of it...time is duration...you are confusing the 'stopping of time' with a state called "the eternal now"...which is far away from what the average humans can experience...it has to do with knowing your entire existence at the same time...this does not mean time/duration stops.



even if the concept of chakra are as old as people claim. The theory about them is formed from even older simmilarities. thats why they are supposedly connected to organs. Organs were older known things and hold certain energetical propperties. Combine a few and sort them under a few catagories. first seccond up to 7th and you have a system that may or may not work.
Actually you are mistaken here and confused. The human organism is the last on the list of manifested phenomena...it cannot exist with out the etheric envelope because it is this that holds the entire thing together. The reason for 'death' and decay of the organism is, first...the life force has been removed from the heart chakra...and, secondly...the etheric envelope disconnects from the organism and magnetic attraction ceases and decay sets in.
The top head chakra brings through consciousness and we know that we can be unconscious and still alive...because of the heart chakra connection to the monad.
So do away with your heart chakra and your body will die...any of the cranks who say they have no chakras should theoretically be walking zombies :)




I don't doubt the validity of such a claim. What I do have a problem with is that the chakra seem to be one of the first things anyone learns when he embarks on a spiritual journey. Making it an almost to good to be true convenient thing.
I only got into chakras after many years because I first focused on out of body work because I was assisting those in trouble in the lower astral.

You should not get me wrong when I write what I write...
You are where you are and busy with what you are because that's where you are...and I respect you for who you are...we all have equal potential.
I am not in any way trying to convince you of anything...heaven forbid...then you'll just be a believer...and I think you are going about this very well because it tells me that you are thinking for yourself.
You will come to your own finding in the end...it may take you another few life times but we all get there eventually...one step at a time.

Take care and much love
Ray

[Wind]

Finefeather's post #37 up there is exceptionally great and has some really good points about disinformation, though I don't always fully agree with the way Ray presents his views, I know that most of his posts here are nuggets of gold. We are constantly being bombarded with disinformation by certain people and sources who we "think" that are trustworthy. I have been way too naive before and learned from disappointment. Discernment, discernment, discernment, use it or else we will be only giving our powers to the so called powers that be. We here on Avalon think that we are awake, but also we can be easily fooled and mislead. Of course it doesn't really matter what you think about chakras. You don't have to believe that breathing exists, but still you breathe. The truth is rather simple and not conveluted, I wish that humanity will soon wake up from this slumber and understand the truth about this reality.

[Jake]

I've never 'bought' into the whole chakra thing. It's something that I've been slightly intrigued about, but never enough to delve into deeply. The only thing I've ever 'felt' is being a great big ball of blue-white light. When I heard George Kavassilas's take on it, just like Catsquotl, it resonated with me. I thought, 'This guy is onto something.' That was awhile back and nothing has changed my opinion since.

What's 'real' to you, may not be 'real' to me and vice versa. You may be making chakra's 'real' for yourself simply by believing them into existence. The subconscious mind cannot tell the difference between what is real and what is imagined. Does that mean chakras are real? If you want them to be, absolutely. They will be physically/energetically real.

I feel the whole chakra thing is a distraction, a complicated way to so-called 'enlightenment'.

When anything sounds overly complicated to me, I'm not interested. If I have to join a special 'club' of people who 'know' what they're talking about, I'm not interested.

The more you 'know' the less you 'know'. We've heard this before, yes?

I like to 'know' a bit about everything. 'Knowing' too much about any given subject can prejudice your opinion. I'm as guilty of that crime as anyone. After all, how can you 'know' anything for sure? Lol!

Many have suggested that George Kavassilas is a nut. Excuse me, but here on Avalon, almost everyone is a nut -- me included. He doesn't stand out for me as a dangerous fruit-loop. Besides, nutty or not, what he said about chakras resonated with me. Beyond the idea 'resonating', I'm not interested in going much further with it at this time. If I hear something by chance/synchronicity that says I ought to pay closer attention, maybe I'll take a second look.

I'm also leery of anyone who says THIS IS HOW IT IS. Hah! That always cracks me up.

Fascinating subject, btw. :)


With respect... my arm is real... I did not beleive it into being... :) Again, I never had the luxury of speculation on this one...

Pris,,, this is how it is,,,, I absolutelyadore you, and your presence here!!! :)

Nobody said anything about a special club...

My arm is real no matter what yor opinion is... No special understanding of life and the universe,,, just an observation from someone who uses his arm every day... so do you... Even if you insist that they are somehow a figment of my imagination....


If I dont know something,, I Dont go around insinuating that Others are ignorant... Just doesnt make sense... What would one gain from that??

I know a fellow who still isists that Russia is not there.... Someone made it up.... Silly rabit,, of course Russia is real....

I dont understand your premise, other than to naysay....

I am not going to be commentinggfurther,,, thank you for being so wonderful....

Jake..

[Finefeather]

i am a believer and i do believe you Finefeather( and your experience) and i do believe the preocupation about the issue of Castqoui(and his experience) and i believe i´m intrigued(thus living my experience)
From the experiences of most of the people chacras are cool, fine.... But could chacras have been implanted on us? Maybe...
and did they, whoever did the implant on us, have good intention? probably, due to the benefits of working with them, which is very well documented.

Love
The first and most important thing in live is to get one thing in our heads...and never forget it...
We are immortal Beings with equal potential and equal rights...we can never die...we will live forever...

It is unfortunate that some of us have chosen to work on the dark side of life and cause such conflict, confusion and fear in the lives of some of us.

BUT there is a plus side to this conflict and fear as well...and that is the knowledge and experience we gain in life.

I often think of when I first found myself in a dam when I slipped of a rock...I was about 5...I was never taught to swim...doom came over me, and I thought..."that's it"...i'm dead...until I lashed out in panic and before I knew it I had landed back beside the edge where I could pull myself out.

I have since realised that our lives are not just some random phenomena with no meaning or goal...we have things to do.

We each have our own destiny, based on our past lives, and we each have something to do to grow our knowledge of life...no one is more important and no one gets anything for free.

As I have said before...I know chakras are part of our constitution and are there for life itself...unfortunately it is not as easy as just saying what I want to say...we need to experience this ourself.

All I can say for now is that what ever fears we may have now will be revealed as non existent when we finish our current life...but why should we wait to prove this...

Fear is one of the greatest tools to manipulate us and make us do things we would not normally do...start today and be who you really are.

Take care and love
Ray

[betoobig]

Thanks Finefeather, i truly appreciate all your post. I do care...

Love

[Catsquotl]

About a year ago I started vipassana or so called insight meditation. From that i know I breath because i can feel its movement and the air flowing through my nose.
I can also feel if I touch something with that thing I call an arm. When I am thinking I can be sure of the fact I think, but at that time I am not usualy feeling the touch of my arm.
For purposes of vipassana it is asumed only the thing you are experiencing at that time is truth or real.

To date I have not felt my chacra... I have experience chi movement through my meridian system, because i have worked with the meridians extensively. That why i suggested those that know the chakra exist have worke with them for longer times.

Finefeather. In your writings you are stating facts you claim to know. I believe you. I disagree with them being facts though. I too was not born yesterday and have been a searcher for as long as I can remember, well since reading the wonderfull story of thomas sugar by roald dahl when I was 7 any way. So thats 35 years of discovering consciousness. In my search and worldview or understanding I have believed many a thing. When I started converting what I believe to what I know. manny "false" beliefs fell away. Under the category that I could not know.
Things like reincarnation, which i believe in but as an extension of life force. Not as me as a soul person. for instance.

I also disagree with the premisse there is only one truth or one reality.
As for the meriads of higher beings. There are beings. the have a different reality. we sometimes feel thats higher. But I don't believe that. We are equals. equal in the way we experience reality, how we interact with reality. The stroies we make up to explain reality though is what i am trying to figure out. As it is through stories we express ourselves. How we explain stuff etc.
In the storytelling though is a danger. The danger of word magic if you will. tell a story often enough and it becomes reality. I feel here's again some of whats wrong with the chakra story in my humble opinion. When used as a concept to help people (rather advanced students at first ) if I read the Cudamani Upanishad correctly that is.
By making the chacra's common knowledge I feel a lot of mystisism was added and thus became a corrupt teaching. Like any teaching there is a diamond core to it that stands the test of time. But it is in my view just a way to explain the human conscious evolution. Not the written in stone truth.

Just a quick quastion. Do/did the astral beings you met have some sort of chacra system? ET's maybe?

JAke I am sorry you are bowing out. You have said a few times you mapped out the energy system before you learned about chacra's. I would very much like to hear how you did that. did you have help? did you see or sense? did you draw them?
I am really curious about that.

With Love
Eelco

¤=[Post Update]=¤


...start today and be who you really are.

Take care and love
Ray

That is exactly why I created this thread..

With Love
Eelco

¤=[Post Update]=¤

Woops in the vipassana bit. It remains to be seen if it is I who is thinking. There is thinking though thas for sure.

With Love
Eelco

[Finefeather]

Finefeather. In your writings you are stating facts you claim to know. I believe you. I disagree with them being facts though.
Allow me to know what I know as I allow you to know what you know...in the end we will both be the wiser...one for gaining some truth...the other for gaining another perspective.



Please be aware of what it says at the bottom of my posts...:)

Take care

[Finefeather]

Just a quick quastion. Do/did the astral beings you met have some sort of chacra system? ET's maybe?

Every evolutionary Being in the astral/emotional world has chakras...which link the emotional consciousness with the mental consciousness...there are elemental Beings who do not have them.

ETs ?...I do not believe in ETs...because I have never seen one and never been invited into any UFO to be probed and sexually harassed :) what a pity :)
All the Higher Beings which I have come across are part of the planet system and live in the higher regions of the mental world...they are not ET...they are slap bank in the middle of this planet.

Ray

[heyokah]

Although I've learned a lot about the chakra system/philosophy, I hardly ever work with the concept myself.

Yes, I can feel each separate chakra pulsate when I concentrate on the places where they are supposed to be, but so can I feel my big toe pulsate or my left ear when I concentrate on them LOL

I feel three 'energy spots' in my body though. A big one around my heart, one on my head and one at the bottom of my spine. Somewhat like this pic.


http://i58.tinypic.com/15d99g4.jpg

I think the chakra system might be there by nature, but the system can be hacked to suck off energy or to control.

[Jake]

JAke I am sorry you are bowing out. You have said a few times you mapped out the energy system before you learned about chacra's. I would very much like to hear how you did that. did you have help? did you see or sense? did you draw them?
I am really curious about that.

With Love
Eelco


Wow, I could write a book on the subject.. ;);)

My friend, I was dragged into all of this kicking and screaming, literally.. I was having full blown energetic events as young as 4 or 5. I spent over a decade waking into intense, powerful energetic states.. Most times there were incredibly strong vibrations. Intense vibrations that came with an electrical feeling,, like having a giant cable hooked into my feet and the other end at the top of my head... Eventually (age 17) I began having fully conscious out-of -body-experiences.. And they continue to this day...

But before I ever had an OBE, I had a lifetime of energetic episodes and energy body events. I promise you that I never liked the word Chakra... Or Mantra, or Aura, or, Gia, etc... I never knew about the Hindu's, and any sort of philosophy regarding what was happening with me. In kindergarten,, mee wee heart was broken when I learned that NOBODY was going to be teaching the class about any of that... lol... My entire childhood was spent trying to make it stop. Trying to get the vibrations and the rest of it to just STOP... Needless to say,, I became very fearful of it all...

Long story short,, I began to work with the vibrations and the energetic sensations.. I had to stop the 'discharging'.. (That is what it felt like to me...) Eventually, they seemed to balance out, and I could pin-point where the energetic sensations were emanating from... I learned that I could 'move' certain, specific energetic sensations to different parts of my body.. I quickly learned that there were specific areas that I had to stay away from, or everything would get intense and start vibrating out of control again... Before I read about meditation, I was learning to calm my mind, steady my breathing,, and let the energetic sensations 'flow', instead of randomly discharging..

The maps that I drew when I was younger included many many different smaller energy centers in my hands and feet, and up the legs, arms etc.. There are little ones in the chest that are to the left and right of my 'heart' center,, they spin and whir when everything gets going.. I had to reeeaaaallllyyyy calm myself to get the energy under control.. I mapped out several smaller centers in and around the head, that have nothing to do with the 'brow' center, or the 'crown' center... There are energy centers that are NOT located in the area of the physical body,, they are outside of the body. Below the feet, and above the head,, and spinning on the outside of us in different ebbs and flows. I noticed there being an 'adrenaline' type of rushing energetic sensation that moved from my 'solar' center,, It would rush upwards, very warm, very powerful,, usually at the end of a breath... I began getting a smaller (still very intense) vibrating in each of the 'traditional' energy centers, starting from bottom and working its way to the top.. I had nothing to do with it.. It would do it on its own..

Remember here that I had absolutely zero knowledge that anyone else in the world had ever had any such experiences.. This was 'school of hard knox' sort of thing.. I really didn't enjoy it much, at first..

There is more than just the 'centers'... There are energetic circuits, primary, secondary, tertiary (etc) that ebb and flow throughout and around the physical body.. I don't See them. I FEEL them... When i am out of body, I can see them.. but that is another story.

My pictures aren't exactly the same as others,, but, Pretty much... Here is a more recent rendering of what I have mapped out...

28028


Again,, there are energetic systems,, not just Chakras...

Also,, the 'energetic' component of the Chakras are only one element,, one piece of the Puzzle.. Nay have I reached a level of spiritual maturity to comment on the more spiritual aspects of the Chakras.. Many folks here have a much better handle on that than Me... Ray is definately one of them!! :)

But I can speak with confidence on the existence of the energetic body, and the energetic centers and their implications. Our physical body has the respatory system, the muscular system, the nervous system, the ENDOCRINE system, the skeletal system, the circulatory system,,, etc... The energy body system is much the same!! :):)

I can't tackle what it all means with regards our existence and our place in it... I can read between the lines in my own experience and say that there is a story unfolding,, and that we are a part of it... Beyond that,, I must humble myself to the Universe and the wisdom of others...

I don't want to clutter up this discussion with too much more, as my experience is only one piece of the puzzle...

Here is much more if my approach to the energy body,, if you are interested... (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?74995-The-Out-of-Body-Experience.-A-Place-Where-Science-and-Spirituality-Meet.)

Cheers
Jake.

[Catsquotl]

If I concentrate/meditate on the concept of my energy field. I seem to be just a very big bubble. the bubble wall is a thin crincly layer. The layer/wall is costantly moving. expanding at places enveloping what intrigues me and shrinking or moving around what i /it does not "want?" to connect with. inside the bubble is al me/inside my awareness. apart from the boundary of my body i can sense no distinction inside the bubble between me or say a tree that is enveloped by that bubble.

With Love
Eelco

[Catsquotl]

As i hinted at in another thread. thinking something entirely new is silence. not even the passing of time enetering your awareness. only after the fact we experienced it can we try to match what we learned based on old symbolisms we stored away in memory.
Sorry I do not understand this...how can you think if you are silent?...And you cannot stop time as you are thinking of it...time is duration...you are confusing the 'stopping of time' with a state called "the eternal now"...which is far away from what the average humans can experience...it has to do with knowing your entire existence at the same time...this does not mean time/duration stops.

Take care and much love
Ray

Well during my retreat last year. At some point i experienced what some call a touch of nibbana. several times. It is a state in which you are aware, but there is nothing to experience. What i experienced most of the time was a feeling of having been somewhere. somehow i can even say I was aware, i could only think or do something with the experience afterwards. during that state there litteraly is nothing but silent awareness experiencing ... peace perhaps? after the fact my mind noticed time had past and i was in a state neither asleep or unconsciouss but aware of noting but silence..

Anyway during one such episode i experienced myself in 3 potential/real stages in time at the same time.
I sat in a burmese style meditation position. I was moving towards a kneeling position/ bending forward and was face flat on the floor on knees unflattering position. all in the same instant. I then found myself in that last position.

I don't know what happened or how my brain processed these events. I am telling you this as it was the first time i experienced time as non existent. where 3 stages of movement were experienced in but a single moment. I am guessing if someone saw it form the outside they probably would have seen me sitting jumping up and landing on my face. That is however not how I experienced it..

This was after 14 days of almost non-stop walking and sitting vipassana meditation hour after hour after hour..

Anyway what I am trying to say is that it is possible to stop time from an experiental p.o.v.

With Love
Eelco

[boutreality]

My contention (not beneficial yes real) does not make me a victim/agent of dark forces except by the fuzziest of half baked logic. Settlements are rarely "if not this way than the only other way" there is a grain -at least- of truth to many different sides of this issue. Can anyone here get out of the Hegelian Dialectic mode?

There are several real physiological affects of chakras. You "felt bliss/light headed /floored when your crown chakra opened?" So did I, as does anyone feel bliss/ joy when serotonin floods the bloodstream; and stronger like anyone experienced if they took MDMA (all serotonin at once into bloodstream.) You felt a "depth to your concentration open when your third eye chakra opened?" So did I as does anyone that consciously experiences their own brain waves shift into delta and or theta waves. Try Binaural beats and stereo headphones. You "felt a wave of compassionate love when your heart chakra opened?" So did I as does anyone when their thymus triggers the peculiar immune response which is signified by your brain as it actually starts considering another person part of its own body: something it literally seeks to defend as if it were you (Scientifically proven and strange and uplifting.) I could not tell you the hormones secreted that are involved in this response if you paid me.

I am not at all surprised by the idea that one day energetic proof -genuine laboratory findings- gives us evidence of Chakras. That doesn't mean they're beneficial. What if, instead of you 'choosing wrong' or 'doing bad' being the reason Chakras turn against you, some cat somewhere, flips a switch that shifts whatever chakra "governs" what energy gets to the adrenals, and you go into a momentary senseless panic? or feel an urge to fight? (Fight or flight response - I'm certain enough are familiar.) What if the switch that flipped affects an aggregate of people around the planet to one extent or another depending on the "proficiency" of their Chakra use?

And what if everyone that chose whatever they did to get that switch flipped simply questioned, "How'd the moon get into such a precise orbit that some or another region of the planet can see a full eclipse of the sun?

Hey try this on for size: Don't take these words as a personal affront to you, your gnosis, or your beliefs but rather a series of innocuous what ifs!

Peace to you all

[Pris]

I BET those who think chakras are a natural part of our make-up have spent more time with them. Of course they have. :)

There are actually people who know for sure that they are part of our natural make up...and that is why they spend more time refining them.
It is not entirely impossible that you are on this forum to gain some insight into the human system...you might even learn something.
Take care

Didn't I just say that? ;)

[Pris]

Disinformation is the easiest way to confuse most of us...simply because most do not know any better.

Disinformation is probably the biggest cause of conflict amongst people who regard themselves as friends or family.

Disinformationists will use the very name of the institution or organisation we have had such confidence in...write complete balderdash about them...and turn us into staunched haters of the very thing we thought we could trust.

Now I am a pretty ignorant person myself but there are things I know for sure and one of them is that there are some disinformation specialists on Avalon...and even they don't know it...because they have been indoctrinated with disinformation to the point that they are so good at handing out their disinformation that even the very people who say they want truth are totally unaware that they are been conned.

I have been involved in searching in every esoteric, religious, philosphical, guru system on this planet since the early 60s...and in all these years never did I come across any articles which claimed chakras were some artificial system of control. But strangely...just over the last years...has come a wave of disinformation from these dark forces...why?

Because many humans are starting to realise the part played by these dark forces...all over the world...and so they too now need to step up their deception.

Has it occurred to you that you may have been deceived by 'old knowledge'?

Disinformation goes both ways. You are coming from the position that you insist your information is correct. But, what if it isn't?

We have been misinformed and lied to about so many things.

They call this the time of the 'apocalypse'. It's about lifting the veil and 'revealing that which has been hidden'. I take it for all it's worth.

I'm not saying you are wrong. I'm saying question everything. This isn't paranoid thinking. It's called critical thinking.

[Pris]

With respect... my arm is real... I did not beleive it into being... :) Again, I never had the luxury of speculation on this one...

Pris,,, this is how it is,,,, I absolutelyadore you, and your presence here!!! :)

Nobody said anything about a special club...

My arm is real no matter what yor opinion is... No special understanding of life and the universe,,, just an observation from someone who uses his arm every day... so do you... Even if you insist that they are somehow a figment of my imagination....


If I dont know something,, I Dont go around insinuating that Others are ignorant... Just doesnt make sense... What would one gain from that??

I know a fellow who still isists that Russia is not there.... Someone made it up.... Silly rabit,, of course Russia is real....

I dont understand your premise, other than to naysay....

I am not going to be commentinggfurther,,, thank you for being so wonderful....

Jake..

Yes, Jake! I agree. Your arm is real. :)


Row, row, row your boat,
Gently down the stream.
Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily,
Life is but a dream.

[Aspen]

I also believe chakras are "real." Although I have not studied them in depth as some on this forum have, I do experience them, feel them in my body. I took a class where we learned about the way they spin and where they are and how to clear them etc. I also heard George's take on them and resonated with it. Not just because it is the latest "fad." But because it fits in with other knowledge that has been coming out lately. Such as the assertion that humans are hybrids and have been from the beginning.

For example several different "experts" have been teaching that most humans are at least 10% reptilian in genetics. At first it blew my mind. But gradually it has made sense and some corroboration seems to have come my way. In learning about neurology and the human brain, I have recently become aware of the brain stem and how it is called the reptilian brain. Biologists who have studied trauma and trauma recovery in mammals (such as Peter Levine) have observed that the human brain and thinking process often gets in the way of releasing trauma stored in our body. It got me thinking about all the genetic manipulations and the thinking behind it. A Bowen therapist I got to know recently explained that Bowen therapy is the manipulation of the fascia, or skin covering of the muscle groups in the human body. Apparently this fascia is one of the first things to develop in the human fetus and the manipulations have to be given time to take effect and work gradually, etc. It reminded me of the assertion that the reptilian part of our body was said to be the foundation.
If humans really are hybrids, why wouldn't the energetic system be part of the experiment? We don't know what purposes or motives were all involved in this experiment. Even the last interview posted on Avalon, the interview with the person who recalled being at an interplanetary meeting where the humans were looked down on, reminded me of this. George Kavassalis even believes now that the pineal gland is an implant. It is an organic part of everyone's brain. He is not disputing that it exists, he is just thinking critically about why it exists, how it is used and whom it really benefits. I am not sure why he believes it is an implant, but at least he is thinking critically. And that is what we all should be doing. I'm not saying we should be paranoid, but we should be open to the possibility that things are not always what they seem. As the veil is lifted more and more, I am sure we will find many surprises. If control of humans has always been a factor, and if there is a possibility that we are being used as an energy source, we should question how this is done. If the ones who genetically engineered us have an awareness of energy systems wouldn't they have been a consideration in our design? If they are fourth dimensional or more intelligent than us by leaps and bounds, why wouldn't they include some thought about our energetic system in the design of hybrid humans? It's a possibility we shouldn't exclude.

[Catsquotl]

Thank you aspen.

I just wanted to mention you may want to read up on the origin of the reptilian part of the brain.
It has become a popular notion over the last few years, but the theory is very much to be questioned.

I am not saying it isn't so. Just probably not in the way you may think.


The triune model of the mammalian brain is seen as an oversimplified organizing theme by some in the field of comparative neuroscience[7] It continues to hold public interest because of its simplicity. While technically inaccurate as an explanation for brain activity, it remains one of very few approximations of the truth we have to work with: the "neocortex" represents that cluster of brain structures involved in advanced cognition, including planning, modeling and simulation; the "limbic brain" refers to those brain structures, wherever located, associated with social and nurturing behaviors, mutual reciprocity, and other behaviors and affects that arose during the age of the mammals; and the "reptilian brain" refers to those brain structures related to territoriality, ritual behavior and other "reptile" behaviors. The broad explanatory value makes this approximation very engaging and is a useful level of complexity for high school students to begin engaging with brain research.

As a theory I feel it is easily misunderstood and added to from wishful thinking, because it is usualy oversimplified.

With Love
Eelco

[Pris]

I also believe chakras are "real." Although I have not studied them in depth as some on this forum have, I do experience them, feel them in my body. I took a class where we learned about the way they spin and where they are and how to clear them etc. I also heard George's take on them and resonated with it. Not just because it is the latest "fad." But because it fits in with other knowledge that has been coming out lately. Such as the assertion that humans are hybrids and have been from the beginning.

For example several different "experts" have been teaching that most humans are at least 10% reptilian in genetics. At first it blew my mind. But gradually it has made sense and some corroboration seems to have come my way. In learning about neurology and the human brain, I have recently become aware of the brain stem and how it is called the reptilian brain. Biologists who have studied trauma and trauma recovery in mammals (such as Peter Levine) have observed that the human brain and thinking process often gets in the way of releasing trauma stored in our body. It got me thinking about all the genetic manipulations and the thinking behind it. A Bowen therapist I got to know recently explained that Bowen therapy is the manipulation of the fascia, or skin covering of the muscle groups in the human body. Apparently this fascia is one of the first things to develop in the human fetus and the manipulations have to be given time to take effect and work gradually, etc. It reminded me of the assertion that the reptilian part of our body was said to be the foundation.
If humans really are hybrids, why wouldn't the energetic system be part of the experiment? We don't know what purposes or motives were all involved in this experiment. Even the last interview posted on Avalon, the interview with the person who recalled being at an interplanetary meeting where the humans were looked down on, reminded me of this. George Kavassalis even believes now that the pineal gland is an implant. It is an organic part of everyone's brain. He is not disputing that it exists, he is just thinking critically about why it exists, how it is used and whom it really benefits. I am not sure why he believes it is an implant, but at least he is thinking critically. And that is what we all should be doing. I'm not saying we should be paranoid, but we should be open to the possibility that things are not always what they seem. As the veil is lifted more and more, I am sure we will find many surprises. If control of humans has always been a factor, and if there is a possibility that we are being used as an energy source, we should question how this is done. If the ones who genetically engineered us have an awareness of energy systems wouldn't they have been a consideration in our design? If they are fourth dimensional or more intelligent than us by leaps and bounds, why wouldn't they include some thought about our energetic system in the design of hybrid humans? It's a possibility we shouldn't exclude.

You're reminding me of something I learned from Robert Morning Sky. I can't remember it all exactly, but it was something to do with us as human hybrids -- that men are a hybrid mixed with a (mostly) canine alien group, and women are a hybrid mixed with a (mostly) reptilian alien group. I suppose that means as a species, we make human/reptile female babies and human/canine male babies. It does explain how men and women are built so differently. Men are more muscular and have more hair on their bodies, while women tend to be smaller, curvier shall we say ;), and more 'delicate'. Perhaps this explains the repeated imagery of women with snakes throughout history.

I think it's a fascinating idea. :)

[Finefeather]

I BET those who think chakras are a natural part of our make-up have spent more time with them. Of course they have. :)

There are actually people who know for sure that they are part of our natural make up...and that is why they spend more time refining them.
It is not entirely impossible that you are on this forum to gain some insight into the human system...you might even learn something.
Take care

Didn't I just say that? ;)
No...there is a big difference between those who think something...and those who know something. :)

[Finefeather]

Disinformation is the easiest way to confuse most of us...simply because most do not know any better.

Disinformation is probably the biggest cause of conflict amongst people who regard themselves as friends or family.

Disinformationists will use the very name of the institution or organisation we have had such confidence in...write complete balderdash about them...and turn us into staunched haters of the very thing we thought we could trust.

Now I am a pretty ignorant person myself but there are things I know for sure and one of them is that there are some disinformation specialists on Avalon...and even they don't know it...because they have been indoctrinated with disinformation to the point that they are so good at handing out their disinformation that even the very people who say they want truth are totally unaware that they are been conned.

I have been involved in searching in every esoteric, religious, philosphical, guru system on this planet since the early 60s...and in all these years never did I come across any articles which claimed chakras were some artificial system of control. But strangely...just over the last years...has come a wave of disinformation from these dark forces...why?

Because many humans are starting to realise the part played by these dark forces...all over the world...and so they too now need to step up their deception.

Has it occurred to you that you may have been deceived by 'old knowledge'?

Disinformation goes both ways. You are coming from the position that you insist your information is correct. But, what if it isn't?

We have been misinformed and lied to about so many things.

They call this the time of the 'apocalypse'. It's about lifting the veil and 'revealing that which has been hidden'. I take it for all it's worth.

I'm not saying you are wrong. I'm saying question everything. This isn't paranoid thinking. It's called critical thinking.
Well Pris, I think you are right here...but at the same time we also need to remember that the wind does not blow in different directions depending on if we are good or bad.
When you'r on the battlefield of life the sun shines down on your enemy as well.

[Catsquotl]

]
No...there is a big difference between those who think something...and those who know something. :)

How does one know?

keeping your signature in mind. It seems you make assumptions about what another knows or thinks. Do you know this or are you assuming as it doen't fit what you know.

I'm not arguing here, just curious.
With love
Eelco

[Finefeather]

]
No...there is a big difference between those who think something...and those who know something. :)

How does one know?

keeping your signature in mind. It seems you make assumptions about what another knows or thinks. Do you know this or are you assuming as it doen't fit what you know.

I'm not arguing here, just curious.
With love
Eelco
"Curiosity killed the cat but satisfaction brought it back" :)

I make no assumptions...I say what I know...that's all I can do...I am not a mind reader so...in a forum... I have to assess peoples knowledge of the topic by what they write...

And yes of course my assessment of anything is ruled by my limited knowledge...how else do we assess things?...

And yes if it does not fit in with what I know, I question it...voice my opinion...and evaluate my knowledge.

My style of writing probably does not make you comfortable...but the fact that you have gone from chakras to a personal assessment of my character tells me I should probably retire now.

Be well brother...I love you..
Ray

[betoobig]

I have an answer from Marielalero:
"marielalero Jueves, 20/11/2014 a las 5:18 am
Estimado Betoobig,
Los chacras no son implantes, son centros energéticos que cumplen distintas funciones a nivel vibratorio y ordenes comando para con el cuerpo físico, están vinculados con los Siete Dispositivos Biológicos. Más adelante hablare sobre este tema.

Un fuerte abrazo
marielalero.
Dear Betoobig,
Chacras are not implants, are energetic centers which accomplish different functions in a vibratory level and command orders for the fisical body, they are linked to the seven Biológical dispositives. I will talk farder in this theme.

Strong hugg
Marielalero "

I can´t wait to hear what she has to say.

Love

[Catsquotl]

Truth is only what we can experience right now. Yes?
Take schrodinger’s cat. Inside the box with poison he is dead and alive until we go look right? I think I’d say we cannot even be sure the cat is inside the box until we take a look.

What I am getting at is that knowing anything outside the immediate experience of NOW is not knowing, it is an assumption based on past experience. Or a projection into the future of a probability.
To me it is not Knowing as it leaves a questionable margin.

What I’d like to suggest (to Myself anyway) is this. In order to get to the truth of what the chakra are and how they influence us. I will listen if someone shares how they have or are directly experiencing the chakra. For now the stories shared here, although plausible describe energy centers. No more, no less. I have yet to read an experiential experience which correlates directly to what is written about the chakra. Energy centers Plus

Off now to download and read Hiroshi Motoyama’s Theories of the Chakras. Thanks again Realeyes.
Being a rather busy man, It could take a while. But I’ll be back

With Love
Eelco

[Pris]

I BET those who think chakras are a natural part of our make-up have spent more time with them. Of course they have. :)

There are actually people who know for sure that they are part of our natural make up...and that is why they spend more time refining them.
It is not entirely impossible that you are on this forum to gain some insight into the human system...you might even learn something.
Take care

Didn't I just say that? ;)
No...there is a big difference between those who think something...and those who know something. :)

LOL! Saying one 'knows' something sounds a bit arrogant. I didn't want to insult anyone.

Sometimes it seems like I just randomly think something and it resonates with me (forgive me, that sounds so 'new age'). Not all of us have to pick up a book in order to gain 'knowledge'. Yes, I like the word you used: insight.

I'm not trying to be annoying here (ok, maybe), but I'm pulling on decades of my own life experience and continuous gathering of so-called 'knowledge' (whatever interests me). I also pull on my feelings and intuition. And, then I use my discernment to decide how to proceed.

When things 'fall into place' for me, I get a gut feeling. It's based on what I think (my own, personal opinion -- whoopee), what I think I know (lol), my feelings, and my intuition. I weigh things out. So far this has worked rather well for me.

Of course, I'm not always right. The point is I use critical thinking skills to attempt to figure things out -- from everything I've experienced, rounded out by a generous dose of feeling and intuition.

Knowledge is a funny thing. The more you know, the less you know. We've all heard this. I felt it was worth repeating.

[Pris]

Has it occurred to you that you may have been deceived by 'old knowledge'?

Disinformation goes both ways. You are coming from the position that you insist your information is correct. But, what if it isn't?

We have been misinformed and lied to about so many things.

They call this the time of the 'apocalypse'. It's about lifting the veil and 'revealing that which has been hidden'. I take it for all it's worth.

I'm not saying you are wrong. I'm saying question everything. This isn't paranoid thinking. It's called critical thinking.
Well Pris, I think you are right here...but at the same time we also need to remember that the wind does not blow in different directions depending on if we are good or bad.
When you'r on the battlefield of life the sun shines down on your enemy as well.

It kind of sounds like you don't want to bother questioning things when you are so certain 'the wind does not blow in different directions depending on if we are good or bad'.

What if one day the wind does blow in a different direction? Perhaps, it already has.

[Jake]

Excellent, Pris... Now our direct experience should tak a back seat to one of your hunches? Brilliant... You are qiuck to poopoo new age BS,,, then you use it to your advantage if it siuts you... This discussion was started to discover truth,, not to ridicule others...

When my youngest daughter was in kindregarten,, she did not see words, just letters... She insisted we were all seeing things...

Eventually she grew up...

Chakras are no more esoteric than my heart or lungs or brain... Whoever put them up onto some damn devine platform is some type of damn fool... That is theproblem... Folks tend to see chakras as some sort of enlightened attainment... Now someone who has not YET been directly aware of their own energetic make up is hell bent on ridiculing others... Someone did a number on us, and many fall for it,, no qustions asked...

Pris,, if we are not allowed to reference direct experience with chakras, then,,,, sorry,,,,,, but your hunches are going to have to be left out to... Do you see how that works.... You are, unwittingly,,, stifling and preventing any sort ofTRUTH finding.... I would never suggest that someone ignore their instict, but in this case, you have sort of asked for it...

So YOU dont know something,, and that makes someone ELSE ignorant???

I have discussed this many times with many knowledgable folks... Not always agreeing btw... Usually folks are much more respectful...

I am sorr catzqtl,,,, I was hoping this would not invite naysayers, but I guess the TRUTH is that one persons hunch is more reliable than anything anyone else has to offer...

No room in here for me.... gotta go... much more mature offerings elsewhere... I applaude your sense of discovery... Keep up the good work everyone..

Pris,,, you have amazing days ahead of you....
Jake..

[greybeard]

Respectfully.
I qualified as Bio-energy practitioner--working on chakras.
Im also a qualified Hypnotherapist.
I have to say that working on chakras produced some remarkable results, through the training I leaned to sense energy coming from these centres.
Bit like levels of static electricity.
That is my personal experience.
Here is a link for one of the training bodies, there is much information on the web site.

http://www.bi-aura.com/

Chris

[Catsquotl]

Thumbing through Hiroshi Motoyama’s Theories of the Chakras. The oldest reference to chacra I can find is 1577.
Of course the claim that they were there before and thought in oral traditions is there, but The bible is very old too and well that is not a measure of truth in itself is it.

A popular translation of the The Chudamani Upanishad says this on the back


The author and origins of this text are unknown, but it is connected with Sama Veda and probably dates back to the period between 700 and 1000 AD, when the ancient tantric tradition had regained popularity and was undergoing a period of revival. Yoga Chudamani is an ancient text in which no clear demarcation between the early systems of hatha yoga and kundalini yoga is found. Some scholars have, therefore, related the practical contents of this text with hatha yoga, whereas in context these practices are actually part of kundalini yoga, as they deal directly with the awakening of the pranas, nadis, chakras and kundalini. In early times, when the seers of the Upanishads were exposed to tantric theories and practice, kundalini yoga comprised all the practices of hatha yoga, except for the original six purifying practices, which were known as Shatkarma.

ANyways.. Just sharing some findings.. I will refrain from concluding for a while yet.

WIth Love
Eelco

[heyokah]

~

Perhaps I will be going to upset some of you by saying this, but I think the whole chakra system has been hijacked by the New Age Movement, just as that 'ecstatic Kundalini experience'.

To my knowledge the Kundalini awakening/experience is meant to be mental and not physical. Just as pranayama (breathing exercise) has actually little to do with breathing. The secret (knowledge) is: "It's all a mental process."

During my Yoga study, the Kundalini exercise, done the way promoted by the New Agers, was strictly forbidden, as it was known to be very dangerous. It's all meant to be a mental process and even then it is not without any risk.

A so called New Age "kundalini experience", one can have in the bedroom, or where-ever and when-ever one wishes, when in good condition.
The only thing one needs is a loving hand and maybe not even that.... ;)

~

[Catsquotl]

thank you Heyokah,

I guess that is where my painpoints are exactly.
where once energy cenre's were well understood. but due to misinformation got highjacked and used in ways that were never meant to be. Add to that the spiritual guides that are so prevelant in new age circles and you have a near perfect manipulation tool.

with love
Eelco

[greybeard]

Heyoka I dont want to offend you but I have first hand experience---I had a kundalini awakening and it was very physical.
I had never heard of Kundalini---had no knowledge what so ever of any practices.
It happened spontaneously when I was meditating--just sitting silent.
The body started to gyrate and energy started to rise up my back.
I consulted a friend and he directed me to a person knowledgeable about K. (not new age version)
On his suggestion I went out to see Dr Goels in India, he was enlightened.
Anyway he had an ashram and I and others stayed for an intensive meditation month.
Quite a few things happened for me on the ashram of a spiritual nature.
I have posted an account of this on Avalon quite some time ago.
The rising of K can take years to complete.
I agree that new age practises to raise K might not be a good idea.
Here is a link to information about a book written by the late Dr Goels on Kundalini
There a lot of traditional first hand knowledge there.

http://www.exoticindiaart.com/book/details/kundalini-liberating-force-discourses-questions-and-answers-and-views-IDK142/

Chris

[NancyV]

My Kundalini Experience was very physical in addition to spiritual, mental, etc. It lasted about a year and was a burning fire which was at times extremely sensual, and often uncomfortable. I was so hot I often took a few cold showers a day. It opened up my sight into different dimensions or at least different from what we can normally see, and I saw some rather strange beings, lots of UFO's, I could see details at a long distance if I focused on a point maybe a few miles from where I was (I called it "farsight"). I felt like I was constantly breathing fire and my back felt like something was growing out of it....I used to joke that I was growing wings and at times it felt like that. I could feel the energy flowing through some of my chakras.

Maybe the Kundalini experience is just spiritual or mental for some but it was extremely physical for me. I would not recommend anyone to attempt to awaken their kundalini without some study and maybe some guidance, although for me it was spontaneous, not done on purpose with any goal. It lasted for so long I wondered if it would ever stop! Life became very intense and I was lucky I didn't have to go to a job because I had a home business. Dealing with normal people in the "normal" world was challenging. I was emitting a LOT of energy and could easily get way too intense. Overall it was a great experience and I wouldn't change any of it.

Thinking someone or some being has or had control over me through my chakras doesn't feel accurate, at least for me personally. I can't say it's not possible, because I don't know for sure if it is or is not a possibility. Personally I have met several beings who claim to be my guides, but I don't accept "guides". I am friendly to benevolent beings but I don't necessarily trust them and I never accept any being to be higher or more powerful than I potentially am. I do joke around with what I call my "guys" but I rarely do what they suggest I do. I like to argue with them too. It's all in good fun. Perhaps if one accepts that they can be controlled it might become a reality for them.

[heyokah]

Heyoka I dont want to offend you but I have first hand experience---I had a kundalini awakening and it was very physical.
I had never heard of Kundalini---had no knowledge what so ever of any practices.
It happened spontaneously when I was meditating--just sitting silent.
The body started to gyrate and energy started to rise up my back.
I consulted a friend and he directed me to a person knowledgeable about K. (not new age version)
On his suggestion I went out to see Dr Goels in India, he was enlightened.
Anyway he had an ashram and I and others stayed for an intensive meditation month.
Quite a few things happened for me on the ashram of a spiritual nature.
I have posted an account of this on Avalon quite some time ago.
The rising of K can take years to complete.
I agree that new age practises to raise K might not be a good idea.


No greybeard, of course I'm not offended.

As you said, kundalini awakening is a process of years. To my opinion, one first has to have opened and cleared one's 'chakras', meaning one has to have overcome all the challenges belonging to the 7 different energy frequencies of human existence (my way of putting it). Meaning,
1. the fear of not surviving,
2. material and emotional attachment,
3. the ever demanding ego.
Then
4. start living from the heart,
5. following one's talents and ideals ,
6. with vision and descernment
7. In full consciousness.

Only then is it for prana (kundalini) possible to flow freely through the sushumna, through each vibrational level (chakras), up to the crown level (the fastest vibration), to meet consciousness in pure bliss.

Short kundalini experiences without first having fully opened one's possibilities (cleared one's chakras), are possible in more than one way, but can be extremely dangerous, as not fully opened chacras can burn.

I'm glad you had a good experience. And yes, it's a mental and spiritual process that can impact our physical body as well.
Btw, psych units are full of people who’ve had spiritual experiences (often mixed with drugs) that have blown their circuits.

I hope I have been able to express a complicated matter like this, in as good English as (for me) possible :)

[Pris]

Excellent, Pris... Now our direct experience should tak a back seat to one of your hunches? Brilliant... You are qiuck to poopoo new age BS,,, then you use it to your advantage if it siuts you... This discussion was started to discover truth,, not to ridicule others...

When my youngest daughter was in kindregarten,, she did not see words, just letters... She insisted we were all seeing things...

Eventually she grew up...

Chakras are no more esoteric than my heart or lungs or brain... Whoever put them up onto some damn devine platform is some type of damn fool... That is theproblem... Folks tend to see chakras as some sort of enlightened attainment... Now someone who has not YET been directly aware of their own energetic make up is hell bent on ridiculing others... Someone did a number on us, and many fall for it,, no qustions asked...

Pris,, if we are not allowed to reference direct experience with chakras, then,,,, sorry,,,,,, but your hunches are going to have to be left out to... Do you see how that works.... You are, unwittingly,,, stifling and preventing any sort ofTRUTH finding.... I would never suggest that someone ignore their instict, but in this case, you have sort of asked for it...

So YOU dont know something,, and that makes someone ELSE ignorant???

I have discussed this many times with many knowledgable folks... Not always agreeing btw... Usually folks are much more respectful...

I am sorr catzqtl,,,, I was hoping this would not invite naysayers, but I guess the TRUTH is that one persons hunch is more reliable than anything anyone else has to offer...

No room in here for me.... gotta go... much more mature offerings elsewhere... I applaude your sense of discovery... Keep up the good work everyone..

Pris,,, you have amazing days ahead of you....
Jake..

For heaven's sake! I guess I'm not so wonderful anymore, huh? ;)

I haven't been insulting or ridiculing anyone here as far as I can tell. All I'm doing is giving a different perspective -- a different way to look at things. I never said chakras weren't 'real', and I never suggested they were poo-poo or BS. It was the word 'resonate' that I suggested sounded 'new-agey' to me.

And, even IF I did -- which I didn't -- what the heck is wrong with disagreeing? Isn't that one of the reasons we're here? What's the point if we all agree on everything all the time? Now, I seem to have been dumped into some kind of 'naysayer club'. Naysayers! Why are you against people speaking their minds? Is this what you call people who disagree with you? Who here can be the judge of what ought to be said and what ought not be said about any given topic?

Who are you in all your wisdom to say my hunches need to be left out? My comments have not been entirely unpopular here if you haven't noticed. There seems to be some kind of benefit being gleaned from them.

And, there you go again with your ace up the sleeve: 'No room in here for me... gotta go...' Is that how you 'win' an 'argument'? Be the 'last word'? I thought you said that already. Why are you still hanging around if you figure there's no point?

And, no one said you needn't share everything you apparently know about chakras. I'm certain many would love to hear what you have to share. Just don't expect everyone to have to agree with you.

You are right. I have amazing days ahead of me, and I hope you and everyone else here has amazing days ahead of them as well.

You suggest I should grow up. I'm so happy the child in me is alive and well.

Remember the first time you saw a butterfly? You could not speak yet, you didn't know what it was. It simply was. You had no preconceived notions about it, no verbal language to describe it. As a child you experienced it -- discovered it. Those moments are some of the least prejudiced moments you'll ever have in your entire life.

Everyone, my hope here is to instill the idea of keeping an open mind, that's all. Approach subjects from different perspectives. Nothing is redundant. Don't be afraid to keep discovering! And, remember to have fun! :)

[Catsquotl]

Regarding what has come forth in this thread. the use and misuse of certain terms, which I suppose had or have meanings we westerners are misunderstanding. what is prana, chi , etc.
The use of energy center and chacra in place of each other. And the translation of old texts i have read/skimmed. Still do not convince me the chacra are natural and pristine.

Seeing how this thread does seem to stir up more conflict than constructive debate. I'm bowing out for a while. will read some more texts and do my own research, but apparently their seem to be but a few interested in finding out anything other than.what they allready know or believe or think. myself included at times. i seem to try and look for prove they are false constructs as much as the believers/ experiencers are trying to defend them as real.

That isn't an unbiased open minded search for truth. As much as I set out with the intention to do so. This thread hardly helped except maybe widen the gap a little between jay and nay.

Which is fine btw. you all live according to what you resonate with.

With love
Eelco

[heyokah]

......

For heaven's sake! I guess I'm not so wonderful anymore, huh? ;)




Haven't we a PM option for things like this?


The topic of the thread was whether the energy systems in the body are being hijacked by the archons or not. (my way of putting things).

What's the matter with those 'kittens"? When you rub them..........


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ac3919yt85I

[Pris]

......

For heaven's sake! I guess I'm not so wonderful anymore, huh? ;)




Haven't we a PM option for things like this?


The topic of the thread was whether the energy systems in the body are being hijacked by the archons or not. (my way of putting things).

What's the matter with those 'kittens"? When you rub them..........


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ac3919yt85I


Hahaha! Perhaps you're right (not about insinuating I may be a troll! :)). Still, I feel that what transpired here needed to be kept public. The topic of the thread is investigating the truth about chakras. We all have our own truth. How can you share it if you're not 'allowed' to speak freely?

My truth is I feel like I have a singular energy radiating from the centre of my being. That's as close as I can... loosely describe it.

I came here to see if anyone questioned chakras because I also question chakras. Apparently, it's a touchy subject for some people. Personally, I'm glad the thread was started.

While you're mentioning it, I too would like to know if the energy systems of the body can be hijacked by 'archons' -- or anyone, for that matter.

I have a hunch that the answer is 'yes'. ;)



Not to be taken out of context, here's what I was referring to:


I dont understand your premise, other than to naysay....

I am not going to be commentinggfurther,,, thank you for being so wonderful....

Jake..

[Jake]

Pris,, you are amazing and wonderful... I guess I was wrong to presume that you could be challenged without getting emotional... I am responding to communications I am getting from others... Please calm you rhetoric... Perhaps add some value... J u st a thought.... You can be wonderful, and embrace the joy within you,,, and still grow....

The person not bothering to do something,, should not tell the person DOING it,,, that it is impossible... That is childish...

Have you ever tried to describe the differences in color to a blind person? Serious question.. Not really that easy.. I would love that tne blind person trust their instinct... Of course.... But I must trust my own eyes an my own experience, KNOWING that there ARE colors... Just some folks cant see...


I say again... You have some amazing realizations ahead of you... You should be excited and curious... Instead you naysay... You will get it...

Try and not take it personal... You are an amazing mind.... I can take a challenge.. Feel free and plain talk with me... :) Try and consider being more respectful, overall...

Jake..

[Aspen]

This morning while reading another post it jogged my memory about the Wingmakers (and how they teach that the Annunaki persuaded the Atlanteans to live in these human containers and then they became enslaved by the Annunaki. I suppose the Atlanteans hadn't anticipated this and only had wanted to help out with mining the gold in the three D bodies?) It made me realize where I got the idea that our energetic systems might be part of the enslavement program, not just the actual 3 D physical body. In the Wingmaker Dr. Neruda interviews he speaks quite a bit about how we have implants within out bodies to keep us enslaved. So since our aura is part of the electromagnetic system of our body, maybe the chakras or energy centers have been interfered with. . . . I read so much and listen to so many videos it is easy to forget what I have heard where. . . .https://www.wingmakers.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/The-Complete-Neruda-Interviews-1-5.pdf

I also agree with the comment that the reptilian brain or reptilian system that is the foundation of our physical body is more complex than we realize. On a positive note know from the Somatic work that I have been trained in that our cognitive brain wants to over ride what the more ancient instinctive part of our brain wants to do. It is wonderful, though, how with a little coaching and support that we can release old traumas that we have been carrying around for years in a physical way.
I have often wondered if whoever designed the genetic experiment that is humanity today deliberately planned that we should have difficulty releasing trauma. Traumatized people are much easier to control.

Because of personally experiencing this, I wonder if maybe our chakra or energy systems also do not work as seamlessly as they should and not always in our favour.

[Catsquotl]

So if I wanted to manipulate someone. I could bully them into submission. Or I could make them think they are doing something worth while whilst actualy doing what I want them to do.

Just as a thinking excersice. What if you had knwoledge of some beings energy system and I had the knowledge to insert devices to manipulate that energy. I could tell them anything and have there energy system react in ways that would guide them as if they thought of it themselves..

I don't think it sounds all that far fetched. Most agree that humans are guided by changes in their energysystem. Most probbably even think we can influence our own energysystem somewhat through meditation, excersise, party-ing, drugs etc... It certainly feels like it doesn't it?

Why is it so hard to believe the chacra system would be the perfect tool for that. As main energy conduits guiding all energy exchanges throughout the human body Its what I would target if I knew how.. I could get away with enslaving a race that way for ages, until someone would notice or ask questions about it. Even then I could conjure up a story as the how and why of the main centers and keep their heads spinning in false promises for another few centuries..

Why is it we tend to question everything we are told these days and not question these things.
Why is it that most chacra-books apart from glorifying them also add warnings for to quick a kundalini rising, or other non-preferable side effects?
The misguided evangilism that overcomes many people that first learn about the chacra to me should tell me something.
Either that man is innately selfish and stupid. or could it be the whole purpose of these things...

Just some more thoughts on the subject

With Love
Eelco

[observer]

So if I wanted to manipulate someone. I could bully them into submission. Or I could make them think they are doing something worth while whilst actualy doing what I want them to do.

Just as a thinking excersice. What if you had knwoledge of some beings energy system and I had the knowledge to insert devices to manipulate that energy. I could tell them anything and have there energy system react in ways that would guide them as if they thought of it themselves..

[....snip]


Bingo !!! Cataquoti,

This is exactly the scenario I've been reporting since I first joined Avalon, back in '10.


The entire 3D universe is an electromagnetic phenomenon.
Our brain is nothing more than a receiver for electromagnetic frequencies.
All a technologically advanced civilization need do to implant thoughts is in knowing how to manipulate electromagnetic frequencies and implant those manipulated thoughts into an individual's brain.
Implanted thoughts have formed civilizations since the Dawn of Man.
It's all a template, and a fundamental part of how the Matrix of Control works.
Since our species first appeared on this planet, there has not been a single inspiration of Truth revealed to us in any Theology (Religion) ever conceived.

Now.... lets move-on to figuring out how to fix this mess....

[Pris]

Pris,, you are amazing and wonderful... I guess I was wrong to presume that you could be challenged without getting emotional...

Hehehe. Compliment the person, then hit 'em between the eyes. Have I disappointed you with my apparent lack of emotional control? :P


I say again... You have some amazing realizations ahead of you... You should be excited and curious... Instead you naysay... You will get it...

Naysay? I call it critical thinking.


naysayer
►
n.
One who consistently denies, criticizes, or doubts; a detractor.

More at Wordnik


I do not deny that chakras may be real.

As for criticizing... we're all guilty of that -- even you. I just don't go around saying, 'THIS IS HOW IT IS.'

Of course I have my doubts about things, who doesn't?

As for detracting, I've been very consciously keeping my comments 'on topic'. You are not helping.

:focus: (lol)

[Pris]

So if I wanted to manipulate someone. I could bully them into submission. Or I could make them think they are doing something worth while whilst actualy doing what I want them to do.

Just as a thinking excersice. What if you had knwoledge of some beings energy system and I had the knowledge to insert devices to manipulate that energy. I could tell them anything and have there energy system react in ways that would guide them as if they thought of it themselves..

I don't think it sounds all that far fetched. Most agree that humans are guided by changes in their energysystem. Most probbably even think we can influence our own energysystem somewhat through meditation, excersise, party-ing, drugs etc... It certainly feels like it doesn't it?

Why is it so hard to believe the chacra system would be the perfect tool for that. As main energy conduits guiding all energy exchanges throughout the human body Its what I would target if I knew how.. I could get away with enslaving a race that way for ages, until someone would notice or ask questions about it. Even then I could conjure up a story as the how and why of the main centers and keep their heads spinning in false promises for another few centuries..

Why is it we tend to question everything we are told these days and not question these things.
Why is it that most chacra-books apart from glorifying them also add warnings for to quick a kundalini rising, or other non-preferable side effects?
The misguided evangilism that overcomes many people that first learn about the chacra to me should tell me something.
Either that man is innately selfish and stupid. or could it be the whole purpose of these things...

Just some more thoughts on the subject

With Love
Eelco

I think this idea of yours as an exercise in thinking is super. Personally, what you are suggesting makes total sense to me. Well said.




Bingo !!! Cataquoti,

This is exactly the scenario I've been reporting since I first joined Avalon, back in '10.


The entire 3D universe is an electromagnetic phenomenon.
Our brain is nothing more than a receiver for electromagnetic frequencies.
All a technologically advanced civilization need do to implant thoughts is in knowing how to manipulate electromagnetic frequencies and implant those manipulated thoughts into an individual's brain.
Implanted thoughts have formed civilizations since the Dawn of Man.
It's all a template, and a fundamental part of how the Matrix of Control works.
Since our species first appeared on this planet, there has not been a single inspiration of Truth revealed to us in any Theology (Religion) ever conceived.

Now.... lets move-on to figuring out how to fix this mess....


Thanks, Observer. I agree.

[Omni]

So if I wanted to manipulate someone. I could bully them into submission. Or I could make them think they are doing something worth while whilst actualy doing what I want them to do.

Just as a thinking excersice. What if you had knwoledge of some beings energy system and I had the knowledge to insert devices to manipulate that energy. I could tell them anything and have there energy system react in ways that would guide them as if they thought of it themselves..

I don't think it sounds all that far fetched. Most agree that humans are guided by changes in their energysystem. Most probbably even think we can influence our own energysystem somewhat through meditation, excersise, party-ing, drugs etc... It certainly feels like it doesn't it?

Why is it so hard to believe the chacra system would be the perfect tool for that. As main energy conduits guiding all energy exchanges throughout the human body Its what I would target if I knew how.. I could get away with enslaving a race that way for ages, until someone would notice or ask questions about it. Even then I could conjure up a story as the how and why of the main centers and keep their heads spinning in false promises for another few centuries..

Why is it we tend to question everything we are told these days and not question these things.
Why is it that most chacra-books apart from glorifying them also add warnings for to quick a kundalini rising, or other non-preferable side effects?
The misguided evangilism that overcomes many people that first learn about the chacra to me should tell me something.
Either that man is innately selfish and stupid. or could it be the whole purpose of these things...

Just some more thoughts on the subject

With Love
Eelco
I have spoken of chakra control on avalon before, but I haven't heard much other speaking of it so I commend you for that. It indeed is a powerful tool to manipulate/control people. However that is not all they are. They are essential for the experience from my experiences with them. The energetic idle in one's mind is not non-energetics, it is numerous energetics creating one's conscious vibration from what I have observed. With the heart chakra dimmed to being basically non existent temporarily in my experiences made everything much more dull, i mean Very dull. So I don't think the answer to potential control of energetics is getting rid of your energy bodies(chakras), but to be aware of that form of manipulation.

I wrote of energetic manipulation here in a mind control article:
http://omnisense.blogspot.com/2014/11/mind-control-capabilities-explained-by.html

[Jake]

I do not deny that chakras may be real. Made my day,, this quote... :)

Love to you all
Jake.


[update] I never say 'this is how it is' unless i am joking. I am probably much more critical of self proclaimed guru's than you,, if not then close.. ;) I only have a piece of the puzzle.. I don't have it all...

I'm glad this played out like this Pris. I never said critical thinking and doubts were at all wrong. Distracting and criticizing is not preferred overall. 'tis mee job to point it out...

With regards Chakras/Energy Body,, I have written books on the subject... And continue to grow and learn.. Does that make me better than you in any way,,,?? Hell no!!! You have not had direct experience with your Chakras or Energy body,, does that make you any less enlightened,, HELL NO...

Folks have been convinced that the energy body and the energetic centers are some sort of enlightened gift or unatainable mark.. That is a lie... I think most folks know that, but their is a residual effect of great doubt left on the true 'searcher', that Chakras are anything other than 'organs for your energy body'...

That's been my experience.. I know that there is much more to them, but I have only been able to notice what i have noticed...

Pris, I promise you that I don't mean to insult you.. I have my sensativities too...

love to all

[Pris]

I do not deny that chakras may be real. Made my day,, this quote... :)

Love to you all
Jake.



I do not deny that chakras are real (to some people). Is that better? ;)

[Catsquotl]

What puzzles me is that the chines mapped out their energy system a very long time ago to.
They discovered energy centers too, They also dound out how energy flows through the body and describe it meticulusly in function, location and flow. They also describe how to keep the energy body healthy, what you can do when parts are depleted or overexcited. They even describe hoe it is possible that energy exists alongside blood and why they are both Chi and vital..

AND YET. There is no mention what so ever about the 7 main chacra's. Their is no description about sushumna in which kundalini rises.
al the while describing the importance of 2 main channels that flow though the front (ren mai) and the back (du mai) creating a circular flow.

When goin back in history the classic study Suwen or the yellow emperors classic seems to have been written between 500 and 200 BC, But even in the book they hint at the fact they are writing down an oral tradition. Placing it if I'm conservative 800 years before anything was written down on chacra's. (as far as I still can tell).

I cannot believe a society that builds its entire society on how energy flows. Look at feng shui for instance. a society that builds its healing knowledge towards the study and treatment of the human energy center. Accupuncture, Tuina, Herbal medicine chocen for their energetic effects in the diagnostic system.
A diagnostic system designed to get to the root of energetic imbalances. etc.

I can't believe a society like that would miss the 7 chacra system unless they were introduced years after the energy system hadd been mapped out.

WIth Love
Eelco

[Pris]

I can't believe a society like that would miss the 7 chacra system unless they were introduced years after the energy system hadd been mapped out.

Great point! I also read somewhere recently that they discovered some... microtubular network that follows the (acupuncture) meridians... kind of like a network of fibre optics for an energy highway (those are my own words) that may physically explain why energy flows the way it does through the meridians.

Just skimming, I found this:

http://themindunleashed.org/2014/03/science-finally-confirmed-existence-acupuncture-points-validating-chinese-medicine.html

[Aspen]

63FzLBUAscY this relates to energy centers and how if people are oriented to the solar plexus center that this will predominate and it will be more difficult to develop the pineal. Don't know if any of it is true, but very recent info (this month) He says that heart centre people will go by their feelings, solar plexus by their gut feeling and pineal gland people by their sight.

[Catsquotl]

Browsing the forums as I tend to do on occasion I noticed the whole chakra discussion had re-emerged here and there.
It nudged me to add a few final thoughts I have held over the last few years I guess.

Simply put. As we are (co-) Creator beings we have the option to manipulate our energy fields in any number of ways.
So holding an image of 7,9,13 or more chakra with which we can access certain parts of our experience and feel some control in adjusting the energy flow in those parts of our experience enables us to imagine the spells we need to manifest our desired outcome.

In that sense the idea of chakra's is a very helpful tool. Especially when an idea like that takes over the collective by ways of the 100th monkey effect.
That said as at some point the collective is more strong it will take away ones personal power of imaginative creation by the stronger collective ideas of how it is supposed to work. There isn't anything inherently wrong with that. It even helps people on the way of starting to "play" with the energetic signatures of their own being in ways most 3d bound people wouldn't have thought of as possible.

The other side of this mechanism is that the collective idea as we all know can be hijacked. It is my personal belief at the moment that this is what happened to the idea of chakra's. Giving power to those that claim a certain degree of mastery in manipulating their chakra's spin and clarity. Through the widespread "laws" that have appeared in the rise of the chacra idea, certain ways to operate/play with them have moved from self-creativity to mass-law. This is how its done etc. diminishing the playful and helpful lesson of self-discovery.

Whether hijacked or even inserted by ET's, gods or whatyamaycallits is not the big problem for me anymore. The fact that they have left us with a partial lesson from which we have to grow. In my experience for many the chakra are now a fixed set of specific energy-manipulating devices with a rather narrow set of possible outcomes.

For me this means they have lost their power to become a co-creator, but instead have become dismembering devices for the purpose of self-exploration.
All that the chakra are capable of is achievable in myriads of other ways of creative imaginative powers.

I am happy with my spell to have closed and disintegrated them from my idea of the body i hold in this life. I love the way my mind comes up with different ideas to manipulate my energy flows. Whether they are seen as beneficial or detrimental remains to be experienced. So far I'm still alive.

With Love
Eelco