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nzreva
2nd December 2014, 03:21
Matthew 27:46: Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani…
Mat 27:46
And about the ninth hour Yahoshua cried out
with a loud voice, saying, “Eli, Eli, lema sabachthani?” that is, “My God, my God, why have you forsaken (freed) me?”
http://www.blueletterbible.org/Bible.cfm?b=Mat&c=27&t=ESV#s=t_conc_956046

Mark says Eloi instead of Eli, which is found in Matt.
Mark 15:34: Eloi, Eloi, lema sabachthani…
Mar 15:34
And at the ninth hour Yahoshua cried with a loud voice, “Eloi, Eloi, lema sabachthani?” which means, “My God, my God, why have you forsaken (freed) me?”
http://www.blueletterbible.org/Bible.cfm?b=Mar&c=15&t=ESV#s=t_conc_972034

Look at the Masoretic text http://www.blueletterbible.org/Bible.cfm?b=Psa&c=22&t=ESV#s=t_conc_500001

In Psalm's David used ăzaḇtānî instead of sabachthani
Psalm 22:1: “Eli, Eli, lamah ‘ăzaḇtānî?”

Mark uses Eloi (pronounced el-o-ee). Matthew uses Eli which is found is Psalm 22:1.
In Mark 15:35:
“Some of the bystanders heard him and said, ‘Listen, he is calling for Elijah.’”

This statement would be true if Yahoshua had called out to “Eli” as Matthew writes;
However, Mark's “Eloi” does not sound the same as Matthew's “Eli”. Matt would be what was said.

The Hebrew words translated as “why have you forsaken me” in both Mark and Matthew differ from Psalm 22:1: lamah azabtani vs.
Mark 15:34: lema sabachthani vs.
Matthew 27:46: lama sabachthani.

Mark and Luke’s sabachthani is not the same word as Psalm’s azabtani it is not the word found in Mark’s and Matthew’s gospels. So, let’s examine the word Mark and Matthew used instead of azabtani: sabachthani.......

The difference between the cry of David in Ps 22:1 and Yahoshua. in Matt. 27:46, The first part of the cry is the same (Eli, Eli, lama…); the last word differs. David said “lama azavthani” (why have you forsaken or left me?) Yahoshua said “lama sabachthani” (why have you freed me? Hebrew שׁוֹבֵק shobek). Shobek can mean freed me, the idea of leaving his physical body which was Yahoshua's teaching no one is good but God, God is spirit.... God came in the flesh but the flesh is not God, If Yahoshua was saying he was being freed from his flesh, he had finished the work he had done, that would explain why freed would be a better word than forsaken. Both Matthew and Mark (in both Byzantine and Alexandrian texts) have Yahoshua saying sabachthani, not azavthani In no way can we get rid of SABACHTHANI. Schobek in Neh 10:24 is Hebrew for free) http://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=H7733&t=ESV suffix “thani” means: you do this to me. Zabach is a well-known word in Hebrew Scripture. The NASB95 translates the word זבח (zabach) 295 times as sacrifice or offering,

Gen 31:54
Then Jacob offered sacrifice (zebach) upon the mount, and called his brethren to eat bread: and they did eat bread, and tarried all night in the mount vs the word עזב (azav) 170 times as forsaken, abandoned or leave. The sacrifice was bread which would go along with Melchizedek offering, which Yahoshua was after the order of.The (Logos Bible Software 4, Guides, Bible Word Study. See Strong: H2076, H2077, and H5800). My question is this......

Why would the highest power in the universe need a blood sacrifice? The New covenant changes the blood sacrifice to wine and the flesh sacrifice to bread, Melchizedek blesses Abram in Genesis 14. He is the King of Salem (peace) priest of El Elyon, El meaning God, Elyon most high. Yahoshua the Nazoraion is in the letter to the Hebrews, is identified as a priest in the order of Melchizedek......

From my Nazoraion post
NZReva
Yahoshua lived a fulfilling life his last words would not have been a defeating statement but a shout of victory. "Why have you freed me? it is finished".

doodah
2nd December 2014, 05:41
I've thought about this blood sacrifice aspect of Christianity for quite some time, and have come to the conclusion that when Christians say, "This is my body and this is my blood, take of this in remembrance of me," they do not get the emphasis right. It should be said, "THIS is my body (bread) and THIS is my blood (wine)..."

It is often asked why a God would want his people to eat his body. But I don't think that's what it's about. He didn't want his followers to eat his body (as in cannibalism). There WAS cannibalism in the world at that time. The Nefilim (giants) were cannibals.

Although it's a bit convoluted, this teaching offers another way: "If you MUST think in terms of eating me, take bread and wine as a symbolic representation instead."

I believe this is a teaching offered to the world to show people how to give up cannibalism. As such, it marks a change in human thinking, but how radical that change was is something which we can't fully appreciate today. Modern people are the recipients of this change; most people today do not accept cannibalism as a norm.

PathWalker
2nd December 2014, 06:31
I am Hebrew speaker, my first instinct is sabachthani = sibachtani = complicated me from the Hebrew root word סבכ comes סיבכתני .
No matter what is the real meaning. What is important is what is your belief, not what you are toght.

Be well and open.
Joy and happiness
PathWalker

Violet
2nd December 2014, 07:35
ăzaḇtānî reminds me of the Arabic:

waʿadhaba (and he punished)

http://corpus.quran.com/wordimage?id=24247

where converted to this context it would mean: why are you punishing me?

Anchor
2nd December 2014, 11:05
This link goes to an interesting analysis:

http://www.thenazareneway.com/Q&A_What_were_Jesus_last_%20words.htm

Starts of in the same place as yours but ends up a lot different.

Lifebringer
2nd December 2014, 17:26
Oooo, pathwalker, I've been seeing a sign that appears Hebrew, but I don't speak it. It has 3 dots to the right of what looks like an incursive r or printed n. Lets see it's looks like this***n but not star/asterisk, just dots. 3 to the upper part of the n. Don't know what it means but have been seeing it for over a month. Do you have any idea what this letter or word is?

PathWalker
2nd December 2014, 18:11
Oooo, pathwalker, I've been seeing a sign that appears Hebrew, but I don't speak it. It has 3 dots to the right of what looks like an incursive r or printed n. Lets see it's looks like this***n but not star/asterisk, just dots. 3 to the upper part of the n. Don't know what it means but have been seeing it for over a month. Do you have any idea what this letter or word is?

Sorry I could not understand from your description.
I suggest you identify the letter/symbol in the Unicode table here (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hebrew_alphabet#Pronunciation_of_letter_names) or vowel dots here (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hebrew_alphabet#Vowel_points).
The vowel dots are ornaments over the letter.

Joy and happiness
PathWalker

Hallel
2nd December 2014, 18:12
It's an interesting theory. But why would the evangelists translate it right away as "forsaken" then, to make it match with the psalm? It seems more possible that it really was just the aramaic translation of the hebrew word used in psalm 22

Hallel
2nd December 2014, 18:18
Oooo, pathwalker, I've been seeing a sign that appears Hebrew, but I don't speak it. It has 3 dots to the right of what looks like an incursive r or printed n. Lets see it's looks like this***n but not star/asterisk, just dots. 3 to the upper part of the n. Don't know what it means but have been seeing it for over a month. Do you have any idea what this letter or word is?

Sorry I could not understand from your description.
I suggest you identify the letter/symbol in the Unicode table here (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hebrew_alphabet#Pronunciation_of_letter_names) or vowel dots here (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hebrew_alphabet#Vowel_points).
The vowel dots are ornaments over the letter.

Joy and happiness
PathWalker



Maybe it's the coursive of chet? ח looks like n

PathWalker
2nd December 2014, 19:12
Greetings Hallel,

I am sorry to disappoint you. It is not Hebrew, probably Arabic and Sanskrit. The
Lets see it's looks like this***n but not star/asterisk, just dots. 3 to the upper part of the n.
I do not know Arabic, and there are many dots all over the place in Arabic (like Hebrew).
You can post a pic here.
And members can assist you.
Instructions on how to post a picture here (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?11918-How-to-post-images-from-your-computer&p=104616&viewfull=1#post104616). Good luck.

Hope this helps
Joy and happiness
PathWalker

Hallel
2nd December 2014, 23:35
I mean ח het the 8th letter of the alphabet

nzreva
3rd December 2014, 00:52
Are you talking about the niqqud? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Niqqud look at the three dots
nəquddôṯ ; "dots") is a system of diacritical signs used to represent vowels or distinguish between alternative pronunciations of letters of the Hebrew alphabet. The Chet http://www.ancient-hebrew.org/7_lesson09.html has the three dots under it which gives it a u sound....
There is an earlier Hebrew alphabet which I think is far more important to understand Hebrew sayings http://www.ancient-hebrew.org/28_chart.html