Smoking Gun Proof of Atmospheric Spraying

[Helvetic]

Smoking Gun Proof of Atmospheric Spraying

Source: GeoengineeringWatch.org (http://GeoengineeringWatch.org)

3r86g9XPL8g

How do we know our skies are being sprayed? Because we have film footage of the crime, of jets spraying at altitude. This is the logical end of any argument or dispute on this issue. Climate engineering is not speculation, it is not theory, it is a verified fact confirmed by film footage. Those that deny what they can see with their own eyes are simply not ready to wake up.

A film of the crime occurring (in this case atmospheric spraying of aerosols from jet aircraft) cannot be rationally disputed. This being said, there is also an enormous amount of additional proof to fully confirm the reality of global geoenginering (lab tests of atmospheric fall out, climate engineering patents, global governance documents, congressional documents, etc), and more proof is added to the existing mountain of data every day.

It's up to all of us to confidently stand our ground when attempting to wake others up to the climate engineering crimes, we absolutely have the proof to confirm the reality of global geoengineering. All of us need to join together in this critical fight. My sincere gratitude to "IT'S the 11th Hour and It is Urgent" -GeoengineeringWatch.org

[Chip]

This has always been hard for me, but to be honest this is hardly definitive evidence.
At one point in my career I was Captain on a Gulfstream 550. This particular aircraft had security cameras that we could activate in flight. One of which was rear mounted and allowed me to view our contrails.
I used this many times to observe contrail formations with the specific intent not to debunk the chemtrail conspirators but to settle my own curiosities in regards to this phenomena.
What I observed was formation of contrails of various sizes that related to specific temps and densities of atmosphere that we were in at the time. Often it looked as though we were hitting a button and turning these off or on, but it was just the conditions of the atmosphere that we were in at the time.
Sometimes our contrails were thick and wider than the span of the wings, which from the ground would look like we were dispensing along the wing much like a agriculture crop duster would be doing.
I have spent 20 years flying corporate aircraft all over the world and I have never seen any aircraft chemspraying nor have I seen an aircraft equipped for this.
Many times I have spoken to friends that have looked up and commented on aircraft with normal contrails that they asserted were chemspraying. At some points I have been accused of being "in" on this, or even a govt shill on other forums.
I am not debunking, just stating what I know and have observed myself as a conscientious observer.
Thanks

[observer]

Perhaps a little research will help. Only through spending the time, doing the research, will understanding conquer ingrained belief systems:

Aerosol Crimes (a.k.a. Chemtrails) 2005 Documentary -


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQuqAtVNnwY

What in the World Are They Spraying? -


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j8CkwQeb-uI&feature=fvst

And perhaps an investigation into some photographic evidence:

STRANGE DAYS STRANGE SKIES -

http://imageevent.com/firesat/strangedaysstrangeskies?w=4&c=4&p=14&n=1&m=-1&z=3&x=0

[heyokah]

This has always been hard for me, but to be honest this is hardly definitive evidence.
At one point in my career I was Captain on a Gulfstream 550. This particular aircraft had security cameras that we could activate in flight. One of which was rear mounted and allowed me to view our contrails.
I used this many times to observe contrail formations with the specific intent not to debunk the chemtrail conspirators but to settle my own curiosities in regards to this phenomena.
What I observed was formation of contrails of various sizes that related to specific temps and densities of atmosphere that we were in at the time. Often it looked as though we were hitting a button and turning these off or on, but it was just the conditions of the atmosphere that we were in at the time.
Sometimes our contrails were thick and wider than the span of the wings, which from the ground would look like we were dispensing along the wing much like a agriculture crop duster would be doing.
I have spent 20 years flying corporate aircraft all over the world and I have never seen any aircraft chemspraying nor have I seen an aircraft equipped for this.
Many times I have spoken to friends that have looked up and commented on aircraft with normal contrails that they asserted were chemspraying. At some points I have been accused of being "in" on this, or even a govt shill on other forums.
I am not debunking, just stating what I know and have observed myself as a conscientious observer.
Thanks

I have one question. How long did those 'contrails of various sizes that related to specific temps and densities of atmosphere', stay in the air after they appeared? For 2 to 4 hours, changing into hazy clouds for the rest of the day? Or did you just 'fly on, never looking behind you'?
And was this within these last 5 years or 20 years ago?

Just curious.

Oh, well, this was more than one question.

[heyokah]

This picture was taken by myself a few weeks ago in France. I live in the Massif Central, a quiet area were there's normally little commercial air traffic.
A party with drunken pilots?

http://i62.tinypic.com/2h3t21f.jpg

[Chip]

Yes, within the last 5 years. No, obviously i couldn't view how long they remained behind our aircraft.
With regards to the last however. When contrails form they can disperse quite rapidly as well as remain aloft and sink down quite a ways as the moisture contents crystallize and form seemingly unnatural looking clouds, that can remain for a long time.
I am not disputing the chemtrailing argument. However, the large majority of what others say are chemtrails, to me are contrails that have not dispersed due to atmospheric conditions or have crystallized and settled into what appear as clouds (which is basically what they are now).
Now, are they putting chemicals such as Aluminum, Strontium and Barrium in the fuel that we purchase?
I don't know, but can't imagine that the buildup of this type of combination would work well in an engine designed with such high tolerances.
This seems to me the only way that those chemicals that are being found could be dispersed and without the crew or the public knowing.
I am open minded on this subject. I don't know everything, but I can only say what I've seen with my own two eyes.

[Tesla_WTC_Solution]

I still don't know what to think about the physicality of chemtrails.

Because of the Alex Jones expose 3 years ago (linking the Sulfate Aerosol Geoengineering Program to the funding of Bill Gates and also to the oversight of the US government!), and my own firsthand worm's eye view of one of the formerly worst "chemtrail" sites, Seattle WA, it's pretty hard to disbelieve.

The former pilot in this thread mentions air density, temperature, humidity, season as a factor. I wondered about that too. But I'm telling you guys right now, the exhaust DID affect the weather in my area (significantly).

We lived on a hill beside a lake, near 35th Avenue near Lake City Seattle.
Our house was beneath a very heavily used flight path used by many types of jets, prop craft, and helis. In fact SO MANY planes passed over our house on a daily basis that it aggravated my ASD.

But because we lived there and had a camera, not to mention all the Prisonplanet people who have been trying to prove/disprove this particular issue (lol), I had to try.


What I saw was that because the planes were always going over our (poorer) neighborhood (the rich people who live along the lakes and the Puget Sound complained and actually had air traffic diverted over poor n-hoods), we almost always had altered weather.

We'd have a day where the morning was bright and clear, but within an hour of the 'trail dumping, the ENTIRE DAMN SKY over our neighborhood would turn SILVER. Not just charcoal, grey, wet, foggy, or indistinct. I'm literally saying it looked glossy around the sun like a silver coin, rainbow sheen all over the sky as if it had an oily or metallic quality.

You'd expect the sun to be able to burn right through a thin layer of moisture like that, no matter the proximity of the lake -- but nonetheless, my tomatoes died, the jets continued passing over all hours of the day and night, but right before lunchtime almost like clockwork, we'd get our horrible silver skies.


I took countless photographs but did not count the jets or look up "official" paths etc. It didn't seem quite that important at the time, and I had a family member actively resisting my investigation (the adult second cousin I featured in the MKULTRA thread, who happens to be an acquaintance of Gates due to where they live).


Come to think of it, it's a bit silly to blame the government for Chemtrailing when in fact the Gates family has enough money to both hire jets and do the deed, and when they have trouble keeping it quiet, they even have the connections to send your own family to come get you.

@_@

so take it from someone who's been thrown in the hospital partly because of my fascination with the weather caused by overuse of traditional fuel... if they don't **** us up directly they most certainly ruin the nice weather ('trails).


:plane:

i hope you read this wall of text. :madgrin:

[Jean-Luc]

I have spent 20 years flying corporate aircraft all over the world and I have never seen any aircraft chemspraying nor have I seen an aircraft equipped for this.


Thanks for your interesting input. With your experience, are there any other constructive ways you could help clarify and address the issue? There is ample evidence through soil and air sample analysis that the contamination problem IS real. Just as no one denies geoengineering as such is real.

My understanding is that there are at least 2 kinds of air spraying:

those spread by military aircraft at low altitude (that you may never have seen).
those spread by civilian aircraft at higher altitude (through addidives to the kerosene without pilot knowledge of this), with substances persisting into the air for longer periods of time.

With special additives added to kerosene ranging (including but not restricted to Aluminum, Strontrium and Barium, for all sorts good (?) or bad reasons to be explored), my understanding is that most civil air pilot don't even realize they pollute or spray (analogy: an automobile driver using diesel doesn't realize how nefarious fine particles from his exhaust pipe are).

What if all this had been a gradual process for the last 20+ years and that most air pilots could no longer make a difference between a standard contrail and the contaminated trails their craft produce today?

At least Jeff Nelson, former commercial air-line pilot, disagrees with you here at 27:00 and says that trails seen now are not natural and not normal.
So does Russ Lazuka aviation expert, commercial pilot, and certified arborist, who advised aerosol contaminants in chemtrails are purposely sprayed in the stratosphere.



On July 15th, 2014, citizens from Northern California at the Shasta County Supervisors chambers. The primary purpose of this meeting was to present information that proves there is a very dire heavy metal contamination and UV radiation issue across the Shasta County region (and the world). A list of 10 experts presented data to the board to confirm the legitimacy of the concerns being addressed. At the end of the presentation, the board voted unanimously to investigate the heavy metal contamination and passed resolutions accordingly.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O4WhYKP83zo


SUMMARY

July 15, 2014 351
GENERAL GOVERNMENT, CONTINUED ADMINISTRATIVE OFFICE GEOENGINEERING “CHEMTRAILS”

Dane Wigington stated “chemtrails” is not a scientific term; “geoengineering” is the term used for various aircraft trails being observed in the skies.

He discussed the potential composition of chemtrails and their effect on people and requested the Board of Supervisors authorize an investigation and disclosure of the alleged contamination issues. He also said that extensive ultraviolet rays are and exposure to aluminum may contribute to Alzheimer’s disease, dementia, and autism.

In response to questions by Supervisor Schappell, Mr. Wigington replied that the contamination issue is a public health hazard and that disclosure of the heavy metal contamination and the UV issue is necessary and required.

Iraja Sivadas, an instructor of mathematics at Shasta College and a member of Union of Concerned Scientists, said that chemtrails contain aluminum, strontium, barium, and manganese.

Alan Buckman, a wildlife biologist, said chemtrails are a great environmental danger.

Francis Mangles, retired scientist, stated the aluminum in the soil continues to increase dramatically, the ecosystem is unraveling, causing an extreme reduction in insects.

Jeff Nelson, former airline pilot, said the trails seen now are not natural and not normal.

Dr. Hamid Rabiee, neurologist, stated the nanoparticles in chemtrails trigger a program in the brain such as is seen in Alzheimer’s diseas e, which has increased in the last five years.

Russ Lazuka, aviation expert, commercial pilot, and certified arborist, advised aerosol contaminants in chemtrails are purposely sprayed in the stratosphere.

Dr. Frank Livolsi, a physician and pilot, said that aluminum is dangerous and is responsible for the increase in Alzheimer’s disease.

Mark McCandish, a former consultant for aerospace companies, said the immune systems are dramatically suppressed because of airborne particles in chemtrails.

Dr. Steve Davis, chiropractor and naturopath, stated aluminum causes issues with Alzheimer’s disease, autism, and ADHD, and there is a dramatic increase in these illnesses.

http://www.co.shasta.ca.us/docs/BOS/2014-minutes/min2014-07-15.pdf?sfvrsn=2



One last personnal remark.
Today in agriculture pesticides are in a more restrictive way than 20 years ago.
Yet 20 years ago, in the summer, you could hardly drive 500 km without having the front of you car or your windscreen full of crushed insects.

These last 5 years, I've hardly seen any significant amount of crushed insect on my car.
And many of my friends have reported the same.
This seems to be in line with the a/m Francis Mangles, retired scientist, stating the aluminum in the soil continues to increase dramatically, causing an extreme reduction in insects.

[MorningFox]

i hope you read this wall of text. :madgrin:

I did read it. It sounds like the words of an intelligent, well articulated, perfectly sane and rational person to me. Thanks for sharing.

[Chip]

I have read all of the research on the contaminates found.
As far as commercially, that I am concerned with. The only viable way we could be chemspraying is if there is an additive in our fuel. I'm just a simple Pilot not a chemical engineer. I don't know how they could do this and it not interfere with a jet engine.
Also, just because I've never seen a military aircraft in the act of chemspraying, doesn't mean they aren't.
I'm not going to argue with the fact that other Pilots say that contrails are different now than they have been in the past.
I'm not going to argue with anyone. I'm just stating my observations.
Cheers

[ghostrider]

we may not know exactly why but , the spraying of our atmosphere is so in your face these days ... undeniable ... it's rare to see a clear blue sky anymore ...

[observer]

This has always been hard for me, but to be honest this is hardly definitive evidence.
At one point in my career I was Captain on a Gulfstream 550. This particular aircraft had security cameras that we could activate in flight. One of which was rear mounted and allowed me to view our contrails.
I used this many times to observe contrail formations with the specific intent not to debunk the chemtrail conspirators but to settle my own curiosities in regards to this phenomena.
What I observed was formation of contrails of various sizes that related to specific temps and densities of atmosphere that we were in at the time. Often it looked as though we were hitting a button and turning these off or on, but it was just the conditions of the atmosphere that we were in at the time.
Sometimes our contrails were thick and wider than the span of the wings, which from the ground would look like we were dispensing along the wing much like a agriculture crop duster would be doing.
I have spent 20 years flying corporate aircraft all over the world and I have never seen any aircraft chemspraying nor have I seen an aircraft equipped for this.
Many times I have spoken to friends that have looked up and commented on aircraft with normal contrails that they asserted were chemspraying. At some points I have been accused of being "in" on this, or even a govt shill on other forums.
I am not debunking, just stating what I know and have observed myself as a conscientious observer.
Thanks

Here's my testimony, Chipsam.

I live on the Jersey Cape very close to an Omni Beacon that aligns the final approach to most of the major airports in the Northeast Corridor. Out here on the Cape, our skies are "dosed" almost every day. I watch the commercial airliners leaving fifteen to thirty second water vapor contrails in exactly the same atmosphere where unmarked (military?) aircraft will leave cris-crossed patterns that morph into a blanket haze. The sun will shine through this haze as if one were looking at an oil slick on a puddle of water.

Several years ago I worked on a construction project at one of the local airports, here on the Cape. I got to interface with a number of pilots. This was when the Cemtrail Issue was first exploding. To a man, each pilot I debated regarding Chemtrails v. Contrails had exactly the same argument as yourself. Who is correct? All I can reiterate is, do the research such as that offered in comment #3 (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?77635-Smoking-Gun-Proof-of-Atmospheric-Spraying&p=908331&viewfull=1#post908331).

As a postscript to my personal situation, allow me to add:

In the spring of this year, I began getting strange sores on my legs. Never before have I had such ugly, strange lesions. A filament would be observed growing out of these sores, sometimes more than one filament. Whenever I have gotten one of these, I cut it out with my knife. It bleeds for a while, but heals-over.

If you go to this link (http://imageevent.com/firesat/strangedaysstrangeskies?w=4&c=4&p=14&n=1&m=-1&z=3&x=0), and scroll-down to the section on Morgellons, you will see just what I'm talking about.

I'm convinced this newly developing malady is a direct result of living under the umbrella of chemtrails caused by the North-South air traffic of the Northeast Corridor, out here on the Cape.

We all have the free will to deny what we will. Turning a blind eye to a most obvious eugenics agenda will not make it go away.

This Chemtrail Agenda is directly connected to the H.A.A.R.P. Project, and is directly related to weather warfare. It has a second purpose of depopulating the Masses.

Just my two cents....

More Evidence:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lBjDSNWiuKQ

[ZooLife]

One last personnal remark.
Today in agriculture pesticides are in a more restrictive way than 20 years ago.
Yet 20 years ago, in the summer, you could hardly drive 500 km without having the front of you car or your windscreen full of crushed insects.

These last 5 years, I've hardly seen any significant amount of crushed insect on my car.
And many of my friends have reported the same.
This seems to be in line with the a/m Francis Mangles, retired scientist, stating the aluminum in the soil continues to increase dramatically, causing an extreme reduction in insects.

This is an intriguing observation that I have also noticed. As you stated, it is not a subtle change but a very stark change over the years.

[Buzzie]

Google US Patent 5003186A. You should be also able to find citations to other patents for equipment, methods of spraying, etc.

I first heard about chemtrails 20 years ago on Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell. For the past few years the skies around Phoenix and Tucson have been filled with chemtrails. When I tell people about the patents and point chemtrails out, I am met with quiet ridicule. I still point them out to some people just to see the look on their face.

I once asked a representative of the National Weather Service if they gave out forecasts for chemtrails. He replied that they did not acknowledge them and walked away after a quick about face. Even now we still seem to have debunkers. What sheeple!

[Chip]

This has always been hard for me, but to be honest this is hardly definitive evidence.
At one point in my career I was Captain on a Gulfstream 550. This particular aircraft had security cameras that we could activate in flight. One of which was rear mounted and allowed me to view our contrails.
I used this many times to observe contrail formations with the specific intent not to debunk the chemtrail conspirators but to settle my own curiosities in regards to this phenomena.
What I observed was formation of contrails of various sizes that related to specific temps and densities of atmosphere that we were in at the time. Often it looked as though we were hitting a button and turning these off or on, but it was just the conditions of the atmosphere that we were in at the time.
Sometimes our contrails were thick and wider than the span of the wings, which from the ground would look like we were dispensing along the wing much like a agriculture crop duster would be doing.
I have spent 20 years flying corporate aircraft all over the world and I have never seen any aircraft chemspraying nor have I seen an aircraft equipped for this.
Many times I have spoken to friends that have looked up and commented on aircraft with normal contrails that they asserted were chemspraying. At some points I have been accused of being "in" on this, or even a govt shill on other forums.
I am not debunking, just stating what I know and have observed myself as a conscientious observer.
Thanks

Here's my testimony, Chipsam.

I live on the Jersey Cape very close to an Omni Beacon that aligns the final approach to most of the major airports in the Northeast Corridor. Out here on the Cape, our skies are "dosed" almost every day. I watch the commercial airliners leaving fifteen to thirty second water vapor contrails in exactly the same atmosphere where unmarked (military?) aircraft will leave cris-crossed patterns that morph into a blanket haze.

Several years ago I worked on a construction project at one of the local airports, here on the Cape. I got to interface with a number of pilots. This was when the Cemtrail Issue was first exploding. To a man, each pilot I debated regarding Chemtrails v. Contrails had exactly the same argument as yourself. Who is correct? All I can reiterate is, do the research such as that offered in comment #3 (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?77635-Smoking-Gun-Proof-of-Atmospheric-Spraying&p=908331&viewfull=1#post908331).

As a postscript to my personal situation, allow me to add:

In the spring of this year, I began getting strange sores on my legs. Never before have I had such ugly, strange lesions. A filament would be observed growing out of these sores, sometimes more than one filament. Whenever I have gotten one of these, I cut it out with my knife. It bleeds for a while, but heals-over.

If you go to this link (http://imageevent.com/firesat/strangedaysstrangeskies?w=4&c=4&p=14&n=1&m=-1&z=3&x=0), and scroll-down to the section on Morgellons, you will see just what I'm talking about.

I'm convinced this newly developing malady is a direct result of living under the umbrella of chemtrails caused by the North-South air traffic of the Northeast Corridor, out here on the Cape.

We all have the free will to deny what we will. Turning a blind eye to a most obvious eugenics agenda will not make it go away.

This Chemtrail Agenda is directly connected to the H.A.A.R.P. Project, and is directly related to weather warfare. It has a second purpose of depopulating the Masses.

Just my two cents....

First, I have read and been following chem trail research.

Secondly, you stated you watched aircraft arrive and depart with only small contrails that disperse rapidly, yet military aircraft above are leaving longer lasting ones. The error is in the assumption that they are in the same atmospheric condition.
Of course the higher aircraft are going to have longer lasting contrails than those that are lower.
Our Atmosphere is not static, there is a constant adiabatic lapse rate along with inversion layers that come and go.
My point is you may see an aircraft putting out contrails in one direction and in another direction comes one with not. This has to do with the different altitudes that they are at. Which is hard to tell from the ground up. And yes the atmosphere, specifically in the Troposphere is that dynamic. A couple thousand feet difference could be all it takes conditionally for one aircraft to produce contrails and not the other.
I'm sorry to hear about your illness.
Best

[observer]

~~~r i i i g h h h t~~~

[GlassSteagallfan]

How do we know our skies are being sprayed?

Because they advertise on the internet.

Now you too can take part of this conspiracy! If you have the money, hire Weather Modification Inc. to spray for you!

Need rain in drought striken California? They can Cloud Seed too!

Yes, call today for a free evaluation of your predicament. The number is 1-701-235-5500 or visit the website at http://weathermodification.com/index.php


Note: while visiting the site, click on 'Clients and Projects' to see who uses this technology the most.

I hope this brings closure to the subject. Ariel spraying is a real as the computer you are using right now.

[heyokah]

Oh my. Are we going to have a "Fred259 thread" again?

" there are no chem trails, nasa says so, look they are con trails (lol)"
http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?1287-there-are-no-chem-trails-nasa-says-so-look-they-are-con-trails--lol-

And how about this one?
http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?60948-Chemtrails-Fact-Or-New-Age-Myth/page7

[Chip]

Look
Are they chem spraying?
Absolutely!
However, everywhere i go now anytime someone looks up and sees a normal contrail I hear chemtrail. From every airplane that leaves one.
My only argument is to say at the very least know a little bit about how they are formed. So that when you really do some intimate research on the subject you will have some knowledge of the posing arguments.
My observations were shared to help not to hinder.
Thanks

[observer]

Just a little photographic evidence:


http://i969.photobucket.com/albums/ae177/POM_011/1whole-aircraft.jpg

http://i969.photobucket.com/albums/ae177/POM_011/Chem-trails-manifold.jpg

http://i969.photobucket.com/albums/ae177/POM_011/2multiple-nozzles.jpg

http://i969.photobucket.com/albums/ae177/POM_011/3outside-nozzle.jpg

http://i969.photobucket.com/albums/ae177/POM_011/inside20chemtrail20plane1500w.jpg


Here's a good look at how they 'played' Hurricane Sandy:

http://beforeitsnews.com/chemtrails/2012/10/hurricane-sandy-chemtrail-geoengineering-update-2430306.html

This is the video from the above link, just in case you missed it:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W6XGUtvUmFo

[yelik]

Clearly not every pilot or airline will be involved with geoengineering. The evidence and research is overwheliming, why is it that soil samples taken underneath housing contains non of the nano particulates.

There are numerous government and military whistleblowers that confirm what is going on including numerous politicians around the world that have admitted that experiments are taking place and have been since about 1999. There are many people that do not believe ET exists and could not possibly have been hidden by the Government, the globalist elite are a fiction to 95% of the world.

We should all be aware of the purpose of the NWO and agenda 21. Simon Parkes and others have confirmed on numerous occasions the purpose of chemtrailing and apart from lowering human immunity and fertility it is part of the Haap programe relating to EM weapons and early detection of previously undetectable ET craft entering our atmoshere without permission.

As I understand contrails are frozen water particles that cannot last longer than a few minutes at the most and not most of the day

[Atlas]

With special additives added to kerosene ranging (including but not restricted to Aluminum, Strontrium and Barium, for all sorts good (?) or bad reasons to be explored), my understanding is that most civil air pilot don't even realize they pollute or spray (analogy: an automobile driver using diesel doesn't realize how nefarious fine particles from his exhaust pipe are).
I just thought, what if additives were added not only to kerosene but also to automobile diesel so that they could spray us both from above AND from below ?

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/44908464/avalon/divers/exhaust.jpg

Don't even try one of these, never know what they could put in there:

http://media.nomadicmatt.com/flightphoto1.JPG

[ceetee9]

This has always been hard for me, but to be honest this is hardly definitive evidence.
At one point in my career I was Captain on a Gulfstream 550. This particular aircraft had security cameras that we could activate in flight. One of which was rear mounted and allowed me to view our contrails.
I used this many times to observe contrail formations with the specific intent not to debunk the chemtrail conspirators but to settle my own curiosities in regards to this phenomena.
What I observed was formation of contrails of various sizes that related to specific temps and densities of atmosphere that we were in at the time. Often it looked as though we were hitting a button and turning these off or on, but it was just the conditions of the atmosphere that we were in at the time.
Sometimes our contrails were thick and wider than the span of the wings, which from the ground would look like we were dispensing along the wing much like a agriculture crop duster would be doing.
I have spent 20 years flying corporate aircraft all over the world and I have never seen any aircraft chemspraying nor have I seen an aircraft equipped for this.
Many times I have spoken to friends that have looked up and commented on aircraft with normal contrails that they asserted were chemspraying. At some points I have been accused of being "in" on this, or even a govt shill on other forums.
I am not debunking, just stating what I know and have observed myself as a conscientious observer.
ThanksI appreciate your point of view Chipsam and I agree that this one video clip is hardly definitive evidence. And I understand you aren't attempting to debunk the Chemtrail issue. However, I believe if you do the research you will find there is ample evidence to support the Chemtrailing issue, including, and not necessarily limited to, geoengineering government patents and documents, government, military bio-environment personnel, pilots, scientists, and doctors who have come forward along with other alleged "insider" whistleblowers, geoengineers admitting on tape to the reality of geoengineering, chemical soil and water tests with highly elevated particulates of aluminum, barium and strontium, etc.

While there are, no doubt, many people who will still refute, ignore, or otherwise pooh-pooh all of this testimony and evidence, I think most rational people, who have looked at a reasonable amount of the "credible" evidence, will not.

[Atlas]

What about this one?

http://best-wallpaper.net/wallpaper/1024x768/1109/Aircraft-exhaust-smoke_1024x768.jpg

Oxygen mask anyone ?

[Jean-Luc]

[I just thought, what if additives were added not only to kerosene but also to automobile diesel so that they could spray us both from above AND from below ?


ha, ha
The slight difference is IMHO the fact that environment associations or even individuals could relatively easely test benzine/gasoil for certain pollutants whereas I assume jet fuel is less readily available for that sort of research. Although I may be wrong, if that was not the case, I doubt associations would spend so much efforts to test for soil/water/air samples.

[Zionbrion]

Upper Tuolumne River Weather Modification Program

Objective:
Snowpack Augmentation
Duration:
2007 - Present
Products and Services Provided:
Aerial Program Ops Management & Personnel
Aircraft for Cloud Seeding
Meteorological Services

http://weathermodification.com/projects.php?id=34

Thanks whomever posted that website. Lots of ongoing projects in the Sierra nevadas of california for snow augmentation that are ongoing.
All of their projects: http://weathermodification.com/projects.php

[Axman]

The wife and I noticed something this year. Looking at a jet that was overhead in the sky that looked like your sprayed sky hazy. It looked like it was spraying but in front of the plane the clouds where being pushed away bye half the length of the plane very weird and a black line also. I thought possible the radar in the plane causing this if it was the radar I would not want to be in front of it when it is on cook you like a hotdog. Anybody seen this before?

The Axman

[Sidney]

Older people like myself, may remember what a normal sky looks like. Start looking at the doppler radar every day, and see the patterns. And then people like this..
By the way, Evergreen avaiation used to be the home and owner of a huge lot of the chemtrail business, but is now owned by ATLAS.

28158

[Sidney]

Also see this very important post,
http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?68403-American-Airforce-Whistleblower-on-Chemtrails&p=796283&viewfull=1#post796283

here is the video posted

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jHm0XhtDyZA

and Bill Ryans intelligent response to the posted video here-
http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?68403-American-Airforce-Whistleblower-on-Chemtrails&p=797249&viewfull=1#post797249

[Mike Gorman]

This has always been hard for me, but to be honest this is hardly definitive evidence.
At one point in my career I was Captain on a Gulfstream 550. This particular aircraft had security cameras that we could activate in flight. One of which was rear mounted and allowed me to view our contrails.
I used this many times to observe contrail formations with the specific intent not to debunk the chemtrail conspirators but to settle my own curiosities in regards to this phenomena.
What I observed was formation of contrails of various sizes that related to specific temps and densities of atmosphere that we were in at the time. Often it looked as though we were hitting a button and turning these off or on, but it was just the conditions of the atmosphere that we were in at the time.
Sometimes our contrails were thick and wider than the span of the wings, which from the ground would look like we were dispensing along the wing much like a agriculture crop duster would be doing.
I have spent 20 years flying corporate aircraft all over the world and I have never seen any aircraft chemspraying nor have I seen an aircraft equipped for this.
Many times I have spoken to friends that have looked up and commented on aircraft with normal contrails that they asserted were chemspraying. At some points I have been accused of being "in" on this, or even a govt shill on other forums.
I am not debunking, just stating what I know and have observed myself as a conscientious observer.
Thanks

I appreciate your common sense, and your courage for speaking your evidence-based assessment I have always had a major problem with the 'Chemtrail' idea - although there is evidence that they have been considering atmospheric solutions via aerosol spraying, and perhaps there have been some testing of this. But in general I think mostly it has been a confused and paranoid concept. Thanks so much!

[Innocent Warrior]

Look
Are they chem spraying?
Absolutely!
However, everywhere i go now anytime someone looks up and sees a normal contrail I hear chemtrail. From every airplane that leaves one.
My only argument is to say at the very least know a little bit about how they are formed. So that when you really do some intimate research on the subject you will have some knowledge of the posing arguments.
My observations were shared to help not to hinder.
Thanks

We have chems here most days and I very much appreciate your input, thank you. I have one question for you; is there a minimum altitude at which contrails can form? I have seen planes spray quite low over our house and then the trails hang and fall as rope-like structures.

[Innocent Warrior]

Just a little photographic evidence:


http://i969.photobucket.com/albums/ae177/POM_011/1whole-aircraft.jpg

http://i969.photobucket.com/albums/ae177/POM_011/3outside-nozzle.jpg


These are pics of planes which are outfitted for the purpose of cloud seeding. The governments admit to cloud seeding and say the aluminium in the aerosol is not harmful, meanwhile studies suggest otherwise. The debunkers also argue that the levels of aluminium are harmless, meanwhile the contractors who are employed to carry out contracts are loosely regulated.

In regards to cloud seeding, my stance is I don't trust our government or the corporations involved (their stated intent/objectives or studies on effects etc) and I do not consent to spraying of aerosols, of any kind, in our skies.

Edit: My apologies, I meant to include your 1st, 3rd and 4th photo, I'm not certain what that device is on the plane in the second photo.

I went looking for the photo Weather Modification Incorporated had on their site, it was the same style as your photos but their technology appears to have been upgraded since then, link to new photo here (http://www.weathermodification.com/resources-reference-library.php).

Sources
http://www.weathermodification.com/index.php
http://www.globalresearch.ca/impacts-of-chemtrails-on-human-health-nanoaluminum-neurodegenerative-and-neurodevelopmental-effects/5342624

[Hervé]

Have a look at the debate over there as well:

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?57696-Why-In-The-World-Are-They-Spraying-A-geoengineering-explanation-for-chemtrails&p=658509&viewfull=1#post658509

... and one may realize that "one size" cannot fit all!

[Sidney]

There will be the believers, the naysayers, and the not sures.

When you are one of those people that have witnessed the assault of the chemtrailing thousands of times, there is absolutely not doubt.
And in my opinion, there is so much proof that general commercial air traffic absolutely cannot vary from 20 tanker jets going back and forth from dawn til dusk, and through the night, and then some day, a jet here and a jet there, and total blue skies as the result.
Ive seen it, witnessed it, argued it til I am blue in the face. I will also go on a limb to say that a place like Avalon, where intelligent people gather with open minds (usually) if someone is hell bent on trying to convince that there is absolutely nothing more than contrails, well you either are lucky enough to not be breathing in metal all day, or you are a paid debunker, or you are simply brainwashed to not see it.
There is the fact that some geographical locations are spray free. But if you are intelligent enough to understand the possibility/probability of UFOS, GOD, GHOSTS and other paranormal phenom, then it makes no sense to be black and white regarding the chemtrail argument.
There is simply too much evidence, that proves that this is a real thing, and an assault on the entire earth. I have done my research, and I don't need to do it again, but anyone reading this, that is on the fence, well the documentation is available, the videos, the lab analysis, etc.

Here is a good place to start your search.
http://www.carnicominstitute.org/html/articles_by_date.html

and here

http://www.geoengineeringwatch.org/climate-engineering-unites-weather-channel-and-monsanto/

[Sidney]

More food for thought.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xY7NLy6MC3E


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L5is16A8pfw

[DeDukshyn]

While spraying does happen and has been admitted to, the video is showing a contrail in an extremely humid atmosphere. The fact that the jet is "spraying" from "everywhere" is proof of this - there wouldn't be spray nozzles on every single part of the plane as appears in the video. I am educated and experienced enough to know a contrail when I see one, and I am sure there are many people who don't believe in spraying who can do the same. This video re-enforces the "stupid conspiracy theorist" stigma in those people and does legit conspiracy theorists a disservice in my opinion.

Is this Formula one race car spraying nano-particles? no it's a contrail caused by highly humid air and the pressurization of that are across the cars downforce wings - planes do the same thing in highly humid air, but on a greater scale.


http://imagizer.imageshack.us/a/img138/128/j5ls.jpg

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BKz_XJtCIAAvGVo.jpg



Here's an F-18 spraying nano-particles ...

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/a8/FA-18C_vapor_LEX_and_wingtip_1.jpg



And here's one where the pilot forgot to turn of his "chemtrails" while landing, lol ... looks a lot like the jet in the OP ... no?

BlTeqBwf2Ic

[Sidney]

While spraying does happen and has been admitted to, the video is showing a contrail in an extremely humid atmosphere. The fact that the jet is "spraying" from "everywhere" is proof of this - there wouldn't be spray nozzles on every single part of the plane as appears in the video. I am educated and experienced enough to know a contrail when I see one, and I am sure there are many people who don't believe in spraying who can do the same. This video re-enforces the "stupid conspiracy theorist" stigma in those people and does legit conspiracy theorists a disservice in my opinion.

Is this Formula one race car spraying nano-particles? no it's a contrail caused by highly humid air and the pressurization of that are across the cars downforce wings - planes do the same thing in highly humid air, but on a greater scale.


http://imagizer.imageshack.us/a/img138/128/j5ls.jpg

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BKz_XJtCIAAvGVo.jpg



Here's an F-18 spraying nano-particles ...

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/a8/FA-18C_vapor_LEX_and_wingtip_1.jpg



And here's one where the pilot forgot to turn of his "chemtrails" while landing, lol ... looks a lot like the jet in the OP ... no?

BlTeqBwf2Ic

The difference is, VAPOR dissipates.

[DeDukshyn]

 
For something more reliable as "proof" ...

It's not a stretch from this evidence here below to spraying whatever they feel needs to be sprayed for whatever reason ... or a fake reason ... Anyone reminded of fluoride?

v7zvi60qxO4

[DeDukshyn]

The difference is, VAPOR dissipates.

The variation on vapour dissipation is 100% dependant on given atmospheric conditions. In fact vapour condensation can spontaneously manifest in the atmosphere in the right conditions -- how do you think clouds form on a previously clear day?

Contrails usually do dissipate within a reasonable amount of time, but the variable, unfortunately, is from full-on "chemtrail" slow to no contrail at all.

[observer]

"And here's one where the pilot forgot to turn of his "chemtrails" while landing, lol ... looks a lot like the jet in the OP ... no?"

So, I went back to the OP and played it again, and I see no similarity what-so-ever to the jets in the debunk video, or those jets in the still photos posted, or even the formula car photos.

The jet in the first few minutes of the OP is clearly turning the spraying on-and-off. The chemtrail in the OP is lasting as long as the video continues. The trail is turning on and off even as the jet passes through already formed cloud conditions. It turns on and off in clear sky. Is that jet raising and lowering in altitude? Is this how the debunkers would explain what I am seeing?

In all the pictures and debunking video the vapor trails disappear nearly instantly.

How are these examples in any way similar to the OP? Or for that matter, to any of the other dozens of examples of actual chemtrails offered throughout this thread?

[DeDukshyn]

"And here's one where the pilot forgot to turn of his "chemtrails" while landing, lol ... looks a lot like the jet in the OP ... no?"

So, I went back to the OP and played it again, and I see no similarity what-so-ever to the jets in the debunk video ..."

I did in the sense that the vapour is coming from every part of the plane in both the OP and the video I posted. I wasn't going for a visual likeliness in the photos - just to point out the ease in which vapour can form when under a bit of pressure.



The jet in the first few minutes of the OP is clearly turning the spraying on-and-off.

In my opinion it is not "clearly"; what would the motivation be for sitting there at the switch or turning a valve just repeatedly turning it on and off? Does he have OCD really bad? Its a really weird argument to make.




The chemtrail in the OP is lasting as long as the video continues.

You can't really tell in the video at all - the trail lasts only a second at most before it leaves the frame. Even near the middle where he zooms out you can't see more than about 5 seconds of trail.



The trail is turning on and off even as the jet passes through already formed cloud conditions. It turns on and off in clear sky
...?

The atmosphere also has areas of formed vapour and non vapour - the lightly scattered but still slightly clumpy clouds seem to doing something similar. One can't be sure of the distance between cloud and plane.



In all the pictures and debunking video the vapor trails disappear nearly instantly.

Watch the video again from 19-30 seconds - it certainly stays hanging in the air.




Or for that matter, to any of the other dozens of examples of actual chemtrails offered throughout this thread?

To be honest I have seen very little video that is fully convincing to me, things like people starting to openly admit about atmospheric spraying bear a lot more weight than 99% for the "chemtrail videos" out there.

The video is interesting, but I am not convinced by it - that it is a genuine video of actually a plane spraying nano-particles or something to that effect. :)

If I were a total skeptic of the concept - this video likely wouldn't convince me ... just sayin' ;)

[observer]

Just a little photographic evidence:


http://i969.photobucket.com/albums/ae177/POM_011/1whole-aircraft.jpg

http://i969.photobucket.com/albums/ae177/POM_011/3outside-nozzle.jpg


These are pics of planes which are outfitted for the purpose of cloud seeding. The governments admit to cloud seeding and say the aluminium in the aerosol is not harmful, meanwhile studies suggest otherwise. The debunkers also argue that the levels of aluminium are harmless, meanwhile the contractors who are employed to carry out contracts are loosely regulated.

In regards to cloud seeding, my stance is I don't trust our government or the corporations involved (their stated intent/objectives or studies on effects etc) and I do not consent to spraying of aerosols, of any kind, in our skies.

Edit: My apologies, I meant to include your 1st, 3rd and 4th photo, I'm not certain what that device is on the plane in the second photo.

I went looking for the photo Weather Modification Incorporated had on their site, it was the same stye as your photos but their technology appears to have been upgraded since then, link to new photo here (http://www.weathermodification.com/resources-reference-library.php).

Sources
http://www.weathermodification.com/index.php
http://www.globalresearch.ca/impacts-of-chemtrails-on-human-health-nanoaluminum-neurodegenerative-and-neurodevelopmental-effects/5342624

Thank you for your critique, Innocent Warrior.

If you look closely at the first photograph in the series, you will notice that my photograph #3, and #4 are details of equipment applied to the side of the aircraft in #1. These are all of the same aircraft.

The other photos, your guess is as good as mine. Photo #2 looks to me to be a modified snorkel on a military tanker. Something very strange is going-on with all those photographs, the first, third and forth included. As far as I can tell, from the links you offered, you are just guessing about the "cloud seeding". There is no concrete information on the weathermodificatio.com site that shows anything like the photos I offered. The only photo I could find on the Weather Modification Site, looked nothing like My photos #'s 1,3,or 4.

Additionally, if you look at the other parts of the comment that you extracted those photos from, (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?77635-Smoking-Gun-Proof-of-Atmospheric-Spraying&p=908411&viewfull=1#post908411) you will clearly see I spoke of weather modification in relation to Hurricane Sandy. The entire Chemtrail Program is about WETHER MODIFICATION. Cloud seeding is clearly a part of that program. This Weather Modification Company is tied directly to the Chemtrail Issue through their association of the former Evergreen Co.

Cloud seeding, chemtrails, weather warfare, H.A.A.R.P., geo-engineering.... all part of the same obscenity directed against the Mass of Humanity.

[Sidney]

I am just going to say that the Koolaid is also being made stronger. I won't waste any more of my energy on this thread. Funny, how many people can believe in a higher power, that almost no one has laid eyes on. But something so in your face reality, goes far beyond the perception of the seer.

For the benefit of the doubt I will also state, that this is NOT happening everywhere. But it is happening across the planet. Anyone with a brain, and knows how to use google or any other search engine, will find their own truths via youtube, and other links that have been provided on this forum and many others. Use the search engine at the top of the page and google advance search, chemtrails (thread title) and you will find much info, and much argument regarding this topic.

Open your minds, and listen to your gut, and make it a point to see what is happening in your skies locally.

Again, the words of the founder of this great site, regarding the testimony of the ex air force pilot.

click to enlarge
28166

[Innocent Warrior]

Thank you for your critique, Innocent Warrior.

If you look closely at the first photograph in the series, you will notice that my photograph #3, and #4 are details of equipment applied to the side of the aircraft in #1. These are all of the same aircraft.

The other photos, your guess is as good as mine. Photo #2 looks to me to be a modified snorkel on a military tanker. Something very strange is going-on with all those photographs, the first, third and forty included. As far as I can tell, from the links you offered, you are just guessing about the "cloud seeding". There is no concrete information on the weathermodificatio.com site that shows anything like the photos I offered. The only photo I could find on the Weather Modification Site, looked nothing like My photos #'s 1,3,or 4.

Additionally, if you look at the other parts of the comment that you extracted those photos from, (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?77635-Smoking-Gun-Proof-of-Atmospheric-Spraying&p=908411&viewfull=1#post908411) you will clearly see I spoke of weather modification in relation to Hurricane Sandy. The entire Chemtrail Program is about WETHER MODIFICATION. Cloud seeding is clearly a part of that program. This Weather Modification Company is tied directly to the Chemtrail Issue through their association of the former Evergreen Co.

Cloud seeding, chemtrails, weather warfare, H.A.A.R.P., geo-engineering.... all part of the same obscenity directed against the Mass of Humanity.

Hi Observer, you're welcome.

Yeah, the photograph with the equipment which looked the same as what is in your images is no longer there, the round photo in the link I gave you is where it used to be. I'm not guessing, I did see it but I can understand your position.

Thanks for pointing out the other info. We had an inland tsunami sweep through towns here in 2011. I never understood how the government couldn't warn us about that, it had to have been an enormous body of water. Here's a news clip (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BoV-Wjo7mZ8). Link to cloud seeding research in Queensland here (http://eprints.usq.edu.au/20679/) (I can't make much sense of the dates).

I've just taken some photos of the sky here today (not the best, but should serve the purpose), between 13:50 and 14:10. The temperature is 32 deg C (89 deg F), with 52% humidity. Each photo in each pair of photos was taken twenty minutes apart. The pairs are of contrails/chemtrails, the final image shows a couple of natural clouds and chems (maybe cloud seeding)/cirrus clouds.

I don't know enough about the dynamics of the conditions etc to be certain if this is all natural or chems. I'd appreciate anyone's thoughts on this.

Edit: The first pair - the photo on the right was the one taken earlier. In the second photo I took (on left), the streak which is the second shape from the bottom of the scene - thats the short trail in the photo I took earlier. Sorry, not the best at managing attachments yet.

[Helvetic]

Jeff Rense & Dane Wigington | The End Of Natural Weather

Source: rense.com (http://rense.com), GeoengineeringWatch.org (http://GeoengineeringWatch.org)

TMaQHySQVaU

Guest Dane Wigington on the Jeff Rense Program.

[Buck]

Chipsam - You post the first response to a thread entitled "Smoking Gun Proof of Atmospheric Spraying", introducing yourself as an experienced pilot for 20+ years, having an ongoing interest in the issue of chemtrails and related phenomenon, claiming to just be interested in getting to the bottom of things.

I also happen to have an aviation background. You did not mention your total hours, or the specific type of rating you hold, nor what type of aircraft you have flown over the 20 years of your aviation career. It is not typical for anyone with former military training (a great majority of the pilots working in civil aviation in the US come from the military) or for that matter anyone working in avaition for 20+ years, such as yourself, to not mention these facts as a way of establishing your credibility and as a way of helping us to orient to your particular area of expertise or experience. If you are a guy who has flown small business jets for most of your career (which if that is what you claim it is even more curious as corporate pilots are almost always hired on as high time ex military or commercial pilots with a lot of experience- you do not let your Company CEO climb into the company's G7 with some greenhorn at the controls)

But what is even MORE peculiar that is that your Avatar has you listed as based on Palmdale. You describe yourself as having an interest in the topic of Chemtrails for many years. You come on this thread, in this forum, to tell us that you, an experienced pilot (who has even watched the vapor trails from your own jet on rear facing cameras during flight for gosh sakes), have yet to see ANYTHING that would support the notion that our government, or some agencies of our government, or perhaps as some have suggested very large and powerful corporate interests in partnership with the government, might be involved in some kind of atmospheric shenanigans.

I have never posted an attachment to a thread on Avalon, so forgive me if this doesn't quite work out as I hope, but- if I am successful, you should see two attachments posted below. I do not have any personal confusion about what I am seeing in the skies, and have not for many years. My difficulty is more about accepting the magnitude of the conspiracy this implies. Read the job posting. Look up the definition of some of the acronyms being used if you have trouble understanding what the job description is actually for. Don't take my word for it, please. Take it from Grumman- one of our mainstays in the military industrial foodchain. They need a line boy to check the tankers, to check the flow rates, to clean the nozzles, recharge the propellants, check the line pressures, someone with an engineering degree, someone who knows how to keep their mouth shut (9 years experience says you get how it works and keep you head down), and a top secret clearnance will be neccessary, of course. Just another one of the 980,000 Americans working today for our government with a Top Secret (or above) security clearance (this figure courtesy of Snowden disclosures)- just another one of our neighbors and fellow citizens who spend their days doing unspeakable things to their own kind in exchange for a steady paycheck, great dental and a pension plan.

But as far as spending our time and energy debating whether this is really going on or not, I am with Sidney, and the others here who are impatient with the ham fisted obstruction and disinfo- regardless of your agenda, or what on earth you may be thinking you are doing or who you work for, we are late in the game to be stalled at the starting line like this.




I guess I am the first to inform you of this amazing coincidence, but as it happens, right there in your hometown, your own little town of Palmdale, Ca- there is a rather gigantic airfield, right on the outskirts of town, up against the foothills of the Angeles Crest Mountains. It's a veritable hotbead of military activity- home assemble facility and testing grounds for the Predator Drone- you might have heard of that? Also home to many aerospace companies (Grumman, Raytheon, Lockheed Martin) with testing and R&D facilities based there. I would be willing to bet there are more Military pilots with top secret security clearances clogging up the local bars on a Friday night in your hometown than just about anywhere on the planet. And somehow you have not seen or heard anything unusual in all of your 20+ years in the aviation realm. I gotta say that is beyond amazing.

[Nasu]

In my opinion there is no debate, other than a very personal one with ourselves when assessing the wealth of information out there. I CAN imagine a pilot, with whatever rating, not having run up against any hard evedence in their time, there are so many pilots out there who also are not privy to this news, or they would be everywhere telling everyone, in bars from here all the way to there.. Never mind the whole "nut job" moniker, whenever one did blab.. Clearly, in every industry, from aviation down, we have all been lied to.. Once you see it with your own eyes, so to speak, and know that it's true, no more evedence to the contrary can change that fact and it is a fact.

Sooo, when you get past that point in your mind, the next question is how and why, the scale of this is so vast and global in nature as to boggle the mind.. The why is even harder to fathom, taking the industry professionals and leading scientists at their word, the party line, it's weather modification. I have no doubt that that could well be a part of it, given the climate changes we have all experienced in recent years, but the deposits of barium et al are changing the surface of the planet, the plants, the animals, us.. So it's either not been thought through very well, or it has been thought through so well that we are unable to perceive the true intent? Whatever the reason, I don't like it one bit, it quite literally is rabbit hole for your mind, one hell of a mindf//k.... N

[Jean-Luc]

Amongst the many WHY, we have the most "improbable" reason of all coming from Simon :


1) the element that is added to ALL fuel is Nano particles of aluminium to detect alien spacecraft entering / exiting into this reality
http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?1420-Simon-Parkes-about-Mantis-Aliens-Reptiles-and-other-aliens.&p=782161&viewfull=1#post782161

He then also mentions other reasons, such as trials over specific targets (i.e. low altitude spraying tin this case), such as the European Parliament.


5) trials are made over special target arrears , for instance, in the European parliament the day of a key vote last year I received a message from the parliament building that Chemtrails were now overhead !


To influence some vote? Seems wild when you know how the very European Parliament is a façade of democracy. But perhaps, this is just to keep the crowd of these highly paid representatives completely dizzy and submissive.

See for instance the highly soporific answer from the Commission 7 years ago to this question (and the lack of subsequent reaction).


Subject: Aircraft condensation trails which no longer only contain water but cause persistent milky veils, possibly due to the presence of barium, aluminium and iron

1. Is the Commission aware that, since 1999, members of the public in Canada and the USA have been complaining about the growing presence in the air of aircraft condensation trails of a new type, which sometimes persist for hours and which spread far more widely than in the past, creating milky veils which are dubbed ‘aerial obscuration’, and that the new type has particularly come to people's attention because it is so different from the short, pencil-thin white contrails which have been a familiar sight ever since jet engines came into use and which remain visible for 20 minutes at most and can only be produced if steam condenses on dust particles due to low temperatures and high humidity?

2. Is the Commission aware that investigations by these complainants, observations by pilots and statements by government bodies increasingly suggest that what is happening is that aircraft are emitting into dry air small particles consisting of barium, aluminium and iron, a phenomenon which in public debate in America has come to be known as chemtrails?

3. Unlike contrails, chemtrails are not an inevitable by-product of modern aviation. Does the Commission know, therefore, what is the purpose of artificially emitting these Earth-derived substances into the Earth's atmosphere? Does it help to cause rain, benefit telecommunications or combat climate change?

4. To what extent are aerial obscuration and chemtrails now also being employed in the air over Europe, bearing in mind that many people here too are now convinced that the phenomenon is becoming increasingly common and are becoming concerned about the fact that little is so far known about it and there is no public information on the subject? Who initiates this spraying and how is it funded?

5. Apart from the intended benefits of emitting substances into the air, is the Commission aware of any possible disadvantages it may have for the environment, public health, aviation and TV reception?

6. What is being done to prevent individual European states or businesses from taking measures unilaterally whose crossborder impact other States or citizens' organisations may regard as undesirable? Is coordination already taking place with regard to this? Is the EU playing a part in it, or does the Commission anticipate a future role, and what are the Commission's objectives in this connection?

http://www.europarl.europa.eu/sides/getDoc.do?pubRef=-//EP//TEXT+WQ+E-2007-2455+0+DOC+XML+V0//EN


Answer given by Mr Dimas on behalf of the Commission


1. The Commission is aware of claims that such trends and phenomena exist. However, the Commission is not aware of any evidence substantiating such claims. The extent to which aircraft condensation trails form and the speed at which they disappear are in the first instance determined by pressure, temperature, and the relative humidity of a given flight level. Fuel and combustion properties and the overall propulsive efficiency may also have an impact. Any changes or trends in the extent to which contrails are reported to remain visible and develop into more widespread clouds may thus be due to factors such as changes in:

— meteorological conditions;
— traffic volumes;
— jet-engine efficiency.

2. The Commission is aware of such claims but is not aware of any evidence that particles of barium, aluminium or iron are being emitted, deliberately or not, by aircraft.

3. No. It cannot be precluded that the release of such particles might affect precipitation and climate change, but as indicated above the Commission is not aware of any evidence that such releases take place.

4. The Commission is not aware of any evidence that such methods are being employed in Europe.

5. None of the substances referred to are hazardous per se, but some effects on environment and public health can not be ruled out if large scale releases to the air occurred.

6. As indicated above the Commission is not aware of any evidence suggesting that there is any reason to act.

http://www.europarl.europa.eu/sides/getAllAnswers.do?reference=E-2007-2455&language=EN

[Atlas]

what would the motivation be for sitting there at the switch or turning a valve just repeatedly turning it on and off?
Perhaps the pilot is not human ? :shocked:

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-Pen-1FF30ZE/Uac7CVS4vsI/AAAAAAAAAEc/dDzU-k5lJSo/s1600/budget-airline-pilot.jpg.728x520_q85.jpg

:plane: http://fxc.noaa.gov/fxcug/3.3_cloud.jpg http://fxc.noaa.gov/fxcug/3.3_cloud.jpg http://fxc.noaa.gov/fxcug/3.3_cloud.jpg http://fxc.noaa.gov/fxcug/3.3_cloud.jpg http://fxc.noaa.gov/fxcug/3.3_cloud.jpg http://fxc.noaa.gov/fxcug/3.3_cloud.jpg

[observer]

I'm with Sidney (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?77635-Smoking-Gun-Proof-of-Atmospheric-Spraying&p=908587&viewfull=1#post908587)on this one. I've wasted enough precious time, and exposed far too much of my personal security trying to convince trolls (working for whatever reason) that there is an active agenda to poison our sky. It's far too late in the game to be debating this issue.

Catch-up or go home !!!

Anyone with any doubt that there is an ongoing active atmosphere spraying program need only click on this link (https://www.google.com/search?q=images+of+chemtrail+nozzles+on+aircraft&rlz=1C1CAFB_enUS600US603&espv=2&biw=1440&bih=799&tbm=isch&imgil=Tv1fpA9m_JjjpM%253A%253BE1nIPekaB5E07M%253Bhttp%25253A%25252F%25252Fchemtrailsnorthnz.wordpres s.com%25252Fpage%25252F113%25252F%25253Fpagewanted%2525253Dall&source=iu&pf=m&fir=Tv1fpA9m_JjjpM%253A%252CE1nIPekaB5E07M%252C_&usg=__EP269Nq0rk48wty5UimHKOWGZww%3D&ved=0CDEQyjc&ei=oFeAVO7CGo2NyASj8oHoBA#facrc=_&imgdii=_&imgrc=Tv1fpA9m_JjjpM%253A%3BE1nIPekaB5E07M%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Fchemtrailsnorthnz.files.wordpress.co m%252F2011%252F12%252Fomegaplanenozzles.jpg%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Fchemtrailsnorthnz.wordpress.com%252 Fpage%252F113%252F%253Fpagewanted%253Dall%3B314%3B214), and observe the collection of photographs showing installed spraying apparatus on all sorts of aircraft.

More Research (For Those Who Dare):

http://www.geoengineeringwatch.org/want-to-know-about-haarp/

Perusing this link will give any critical thinking individual the necessary information to connect the Chemtrail Agenda to what is known about Geo-Engineering, and Weather Modification, among other aspects of this program.

[DeDukshyn]

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-Pen-1FF30ZE/Uac7CVS4vsI/AAAAAAAAAEc/dDzU-k5lJSo/s1600/budget-airline-pilot.jpg.728x520_q85.jpg
:plane:


That's exactly the OCD guy I was imagining sitting there playing with the switches! ;)

[Gez501]

For those who would like to view satellite evidence of chem-trails may I suggest a visit to "Dundee University Tracking Satellite" (Google of course) where for a one-time fee of about £2.50 you can log in to their satellite and view many hi-res photos of what they call 'con-trails' and download them. They cover parts of Bay of Biscay, Europe, UK, and the Western Approaches. Well worth a visit. They show spraying from ships also!!!

[panpravda]

Look
Are they chem spraying?
Absolutely!
However, everywhere i go now anytime someone looks up and sees a normal contrail I hear chemtrail. From every airplane that leaves one.
My only argument is to say at the very least know a little bit about how they are formed. So that when you really do some intimate research on the subject you will have some knowledge of the posing arguments.
My observations were shared to help not to hinder.
Thanks

Chipsam: I for one can see and appreciate what you are offering with you level-headed, technically accurate comments.

Thank you.

[ceetee9]

Look
Are they chem spraying?
Absolutely!
However, everywhere i go now anytime someone looks up and sees a normal contrail I hear chemtrail. From every airplane that leaves one...Yes, and there are those who claim every moving light in the night sky is a UFO. These are the people who have enabled the mainstream media to label anyone who talks about such things as crazy "Conspiracy Theorists." They do a disservice to the subject matter and to themselves. Don't throw the baby out with the bath water. If you truly believe they are "chem spraying," as you claim, then don't concern yourself with those people or waste your time and energy arguing with them. You might find your blood pressure will go down and you'll be a lot happier. ;)

[Aspen]

I have accepted the chemtrail phenomena since 2008 when I observed a criss cross pattern like you would make for the game of Xs and Os over top of the small city I lived in. I would commute from a half hour away and it was very clear that it was deliberately done over top of a city of 50,000 people. I remember thinking - that doesn't come from the planes at the airport. How could they make perfect square patterns like that just taking off and landing? Also the odd criss cross pattern clouds were a dirty yellowy colour. Not the colour of normal clouds at all. On the half hour drive to the city there were pretty much no clouds at all. Two weeks later I contracted H1N1 and was very sick for three weeks. I normally never get the flu or hardly ever a cold. It went into my lungs and I was having trouble breathing. Many people became ill in our city and the vaccination program was being pushed daily in the media. I have often noticed that major cities have much more spraying than the little towns and cities and then in between there are far fewer clouds. It is quite noticeable in northern Canada because of the long distances between places. Often I notice patterns. For example over the small city I mentioned, several times I saw a long trail that was laid down from the northwest going to the southeast as far as you could see and and it was three or four trails laid down side by side. We just have a tiny airport and planes come from a variety of directions . . . These patterns are not explainable by normal air traffic. Although I understand that chemtrails are used for a variety of purposed, I am wondering if the massive spraying going on over the Pacific is mostly weather modification? It would be nice to know some day what the most common purpose really is. Here is an amazing video done by a person on youtube who calls himself Jetstream Notch. He is a meteorologist who seems to have convincing evidence of massive spraying to encourage the development of the cold weather we have been having lately. FfGLeUBQpm0

[Innocent Warrior]

I want more than anything to believe we aren't getting sprayed because I can't imagine how many tonnes of chemicals have fallen on this city by now. As I said, I'm no expert, but for what it's worth, I think it wasn't humid enough and too hot for those trails to form, stay and disperse like they did yesterday.

I haven't any photos of shocking obvious chemtrails. I can take photos of chem-clouds most days, but it never looks as unnatural in photos as it does in person. They mostly spray at night here, that's when I saw the ropes. I swear I watched them build a blanket, line by line one night. It was like a giant gas chamber.

Nothing does my head in like this issue does. What is it doing to us, the animals and our planet? Considering the sheer volume of whatever it is that is in our sky, whatever it's doing to us, it's done. I'm just going to get samples tested when I can afford them and keep them ready for when this gets to court. Surely they won't get away with this.

[aviators]

what would the motivation be for sitting there at the switch or turning a valve just repeatedly turning it on and off?
Perhaps the pilot is not human ? :shocked:

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-Pen-1FF30ZE/Uac7CVS4vsI/AAAAAAAAAEc/dDzU-k5lJSo/s1600/budget-airline-pilot.jpg.728x520_q85.jpg

:plane: http://fxc.noaa.gov/fxcug/3.3_cloud.jpg http://fxc.noaa.gov/fxcug/3.3_cloud.jpg http://fxc.noaa.gov/fxcug/3.3_cloud.jpg http://fxc.noaa.gov/fxcug/3.3_cloud.jpg http://fxc.noaa.gov/fxcug/3.3_cloud.jpg http://fxc.noaa.gov/fxcug/3.3_cloud.jpg

lol, but in all seriousness perhaps this is a non-human program going on.
This is why its so hard to prove or wrap your head around.
I believe we are being spayed from the air, however I'm not convinced its all from 21 century aircraft.
To load aircraft in such a large program seems logistically too hard to do.
Smaller programs OK, but this scale of operation I don't know.You would need railroad cars of material....... and hundreds of personnel... I don't see it.

Perhaps we are looking at a cloaked technology that is just using planes as the front. My2cents.

The real question is "where is all this heavy metal coming from? "

[outerheaven]

Interesting thoughts, aviators, and it might not be all that far-fetched.

FWIW I recommend checking out the youtube channel of Crrow777. He catches a lot of strange UFO/orbs when filming chemtrails. Once even got footage of an orb that "exploded," with a strange chaff-like material coming out of it. Totally bizarre.

Here's one, for example, where he films air show pilots performing skywriting. Interesting video for a couple of reasons, IMO.

J_4QLjwg4oM

Anyhow, dig around his YT channel and you'll find some more interesting stuff.

[Innocent Warrior]

I believe we are being spayed from the air, however I'm not convinced its all from 21 century aircraft.
To load aircraft in such a large program seems logistically too hard to do.
Smaller programs OK, but this scale of operation I don't know.You would need railroad cars of material....... and hundreds of personnel... I don't see it.

Perhaps we are looking at a cloaked technology that is just using planes as the front. My2cents.

The real question is "where is all this heavy metal coming from? "

This is an interesting thought, there is a lot in the sky and it would explain why we don't see more planes.

[outerheaven]

Anyone ever seen a plane with a trail, and "the black line"? I wonder what the common debunk theory is on this ... take a look:

LRyZO6wXTjk

I've only seen it in person once. But it's very bizarre. I've seen people try to write it off as a "shadow," but in open sky, and the black line extending far in both directions of the plane, I really don't see how that explanation holds up.

[DeDukshyn]

Anyone ever seen a plane with a trail, and "the black line"? I wonder what the common debunk theory is on this ... take a look:

LRyZO6wXTjk

I've only seen it in person once. But it's very bizarre. I've seen people try to write it off as a "shadow," but in open sky, and the black line extending far in both directions of the plane, I really don't see how that explanation holds up.

Saw it the day before yesterday and of course several other times before in real life. Shadow. I have exceptional spatial perception - Likely from having worked with CGI 3D for >10 years and whenever I see this in real life I can always see where the light source is coming from the resultant shadow cast from contrail / chemtrail being cast in the atmosphere. The atmosphere isn't "clear" but rather has some opaqueness and absorption for qualities, allowing for shadows to be able to be cast upon itself - especially on the haze of any water vapour current in the atmosphere at that time, whether it by extremely light cloud or plainly imperceptible.

I've never seen any where I wasn't convinced of shadows on the atmosphere.

Water vapour particles are not bright white - they are clear - each drop is as clear as water. It appears bright white due to a phenomenon called refraction, where light passing through a clear sphere (water vapour particle) is bent - this is known as light refraction.

This bending while having a bright light cast on it causes the trails to appear brightly white to us (and clouds as white - until they are heavy enough to cast shadows -- then black). When you cast a shadow on these particles there is no more light to bend and give the effect of brightness, and like a regular shadow on water, you get an effect of a contrasting dark colour as opposed to white, while a bright light is being cast on it - and then refracted.

The source of the shadow can be the horizon, the trail itself or another trail or any cloud of mist that happens to be in the area or partially between the light source and the trail - any of these will suffice.

I hope I explained that clearly enough. ;)

[aviators]

Anyone ever seen a plane with a trail, and "the black line"? I wonder what the common debunk theory is on this ... take a look:



I've only seen it in person once. But it's very bizarre. I've seen people try to write it off as a "shadow," but in open sky, and the black line extending far in both directions of the plane, I really don't see how that explanation holds up.
I have seen this many times before and believe its from the suns rays projecting the black line.
The trail needs to be pointing towards the suns direction for this to occur.
Its quite common.

[Sidney]

Ted Gunderson speaks out about chemtrails. Is later poisoned.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DdJjNMSet_A

[Sidney]

There is technology being used that is so far out of our perception that it is hard to wrap ones head around. We have to open our minds and think about the ultimate picture of just how advanced things really are that we are in the dark about.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4byMQIk_iGQ

[Hervé]

I don't know but...


[...]
The more I think of it in contrast to the stealth approach of the controllers to any of their goals, then making their geoengineering campaign THAT obvious doesn't make sense. I would think that by now they would have found ways to conceal their spraying into less visible manifestations in view of the large research budget they can muster.

The alternative described in this post (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?57696-Why-In-The-World-Are-They-Spraying-A-geoengineering-explanation-for-chemtrails&p=658517&viewfull=1#post658517) (<---) is the closest to the reality of what's happening.

[Sidney]

Hi Herve, and thank you for this. I certainly cannot comment on what is or is not happening in your country, because I am not there. But I assure you, because I have been watching this activity where I live, for about 9 years, when I first became aware of this activity, I know that they have become quite good at being so not in your face with the spraying. There are different types of chemicals used, depending on which purpose they are using it for.
But the type of residue that goes up and stays up for long periods, is done at night. Start looking at the satellite imagery every night over the united states. If you get into the habit of this, (anyone in any country can just watch and become accustomed to what a normal satellite image looks like), much can be learned.
I am not telling anyone to take my word for it. I did my own research, and found my own educated truth. I urge everyone to do their own research. Look up. Listen at night, is there a roar of overhead jets rumbling on and on and on, when there should be no commercial traffic up there?
Back 7, 8, 9 yrs ago they were not very good at being inconspicuous. Over the years, they have gotten better at hiding it.
I won't go into what its for, because my personal opinion is that they have found many uses for technology that can benefit from saturating the ionosphere/atmosphere and anything that is living that becomes saturated with such materials.

Also there have been craft, that are NOT planes, filmed spraying. So that opens up another flavor of worms.

The US military has a LOT of dirty secrets, and it is not a secret that they own most of the patents pertaining to this technology(and these are ONLY the ones that have been declassified.)
So if someone has 100% trust in Obama and Co. (which is just an extension of the Bush cabal) well, then they can stay safe in their little napping state and enjoy the blissful ride of ignorance.

[observer]

There is technology being used that is so far out of our perception that it is hard to wrap ones head around. We have to open our minds and think about the ultimate picture of just how advanced things really are that we are in the dark about.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4byMQIk_iGQ

With my greatest expression of sarcasm:

Oh Sidney!!! How could you be so silly? ....posting a video of high altitude birds, and calling them UFOs....

[observer]

You want smoking guns?

In my best Jack Nicholson voice: "YOU CAN'T HANDLE THE TRUTH"

Of course, there are those who would assert this is a "doctored" photograph:

http://www.thelivingmoon.com/45jack_files/04images/ChemTrails/ECN-4242_detail.jpg

And, that this is just a nervous operator with Tourette Syndrome, or was it changes in altitude? I can never keep-up with all the excuses:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bSSWnXQsgOU

[Sidney]

There is technology being used that is so far out of our perception that it is hard to wrap ones head around. We have to open our minds and think about the ultimate picture of just how advanced things really are that we are in the dark about.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4byMQIk_iGQ

With my greatest expression of sarcasm:

Oh Sidney!!! How could you be so silly? ....posting a video of high altitude birds, and calling them UFOs....

Kind of weird, huh? I mean, its hard to wrap your head around this one. I saw this one a few months ago, on this forum I think, but it is still thought provoking. Not only are birds flying that high, but they are puking into the fake clouds, (more sarcasm of course).

[Hervé]

OK, here is what my take is on the whole psyop and cover-up laced with plausible deniability as well as to explain this comment of mine:


[...]

I personally think that most of the visible "chemtrails" are a secondary phenomenon with the actual spraying taking place at higher altitudes with the aerosols being disturbed when reaching flight paths when falling down.

There was an article on this phenomenon but starting from cometary dust as seeds for "persisting" contrails by influencing the temperature of the upper atmosphere. My take is that a similar phenomenon is being used for the hiding of the actual spraying.

So that, on the previous threads debating this chemtrails vs. contrails with experienced pilots; it may actually be that both side of that debate were right.

There is no doubt as to what reaches the ground and there is no doubt that pilots are also sincere... therefore one may need to find out where the spraying actually takes place?

I think the answer could be found in the geoengineering patent office...

The idea stems from the proposal found in post # 7 (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?57696-Why-In-The-World-Are-They-Spraying-A-geoengineering-explanation-for-chemtrails&p=658517&viewfull=1#post658517) above:


The report said that the US Military planned to create a "telecommunications shield in the ionosphere at 3,000 km height, by bringing into orbit 350,000 million copper needles, each 2-4 cm long [total weight 16 kg], forming a belt 10 km thick and 40 km wide, the needles spaced about 100 m apart." This was designed to replace the ionosphere "because telecommunications are impaired by magnetic storms and solar flares." The US planned to add to the number of copper needles if the experiment proved to be successful. This plan was strongly opposed by the International Union of Astronomers." If one takes into account the existence of a "Breakaway civilization Space Command Fleet" which could actually conduct, unobserved, a spraying very high up in the upper atmosphere where no commercial jets can fly in the altitude range suggested for the copper needles, then, when that aluminum, barium, strontium mix slowly comes down to where commercial jets do fly; the mixture creates these seeded contrails which persist.

Commercial passenger flights are then blamed for the spraying of aerosols they have no clue how that would even be possible and therefore rightly consider whoever utter such nonsense as totally nuts.

See?

With this scenario, Fred259 is right in his analysis (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?20503-Chemtrails-don-t-exist&highlight=Chemtrails+don%27t)... debunkers are right about the mixture of aluminum, barium, strontium found on the ground and rain water... yet all are wrong regarding the persisting contrails!

... since they are seeded contrails by aerosols coming down from way higher up than passenger jet flight's corridors.

That particular scenario would also greatly alter the physical properties of the upper atmosphere and therefore skew the interpretation given by Laura knight-Jadczyk although she is much closer to reality than anyone else as to what's happening to our skies.


QED





All perfectly normal.

Maybe not! :)


http://circular_chemtrail_aircraft.jpghttp://projectavalon.net/circular_chemtrail_aircraft.jpg


The above reproduced from this post (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?57696-Why-In-The-World-Are-They-Spraying-A-geoengineering-explanation-for-chemtrails&p=659165&viewfull=1#post659165) (<---)

[Sidney]

You want smoking guns?

In my best Jack Nicholson voice: "YOU CAN'T HANDLE THE TRUTH"

Of course, there are those who would assert this is a "doctored" photograph:

http://www.thelivingmoon.com/45jack_files/04images/ChemTrails/ECN-4242_detail.jpg

And, that this is just a nervous operator with Tourette Syndrome, or was it changes in altitude? I can never keep-up with all the excuses:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bSSWnXQsgOU

Im sure its just vapor. LOL:tape2: Seriously though, humor aside, the guy filming that, and posting it, has some serious backbone. I hope its contagious.

[Sidney]

OK, here is what my take is on the whole psyop and cover-up laced with plausible deniability as well as to explain this comment of mine:


[...]

I personally think that most of the visible "chemtrails" are a secondary phenomenon with the actual spraying taking place at higher altitudes with the aerosols being disturbed when reaching flight paths when falling down.

There was an article on this phenomenon but starting from cometary dust as seeds for "persisting" contrails by influencing the temperature of the upper atmosphere. My take is that a similar phenomenon is being used for the hiding of the actual spraying.

So that, on the previous threads debating this chemtrails vs. contrails with experienced pilots; it may actually be that both side of that debate were right.

There is no doubt as to what reaches the ground and there is no doubt that pilots are also sincere... therefore one may need to find out where the spraying actually takes place?

I think the answer could be found in the geoengineering patent office...

The idea stems from the proposal found in post # 7 (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?57696-Why-In-The-World-Are-They-Spraying-A-geoengineering-explanation-for-chemtrails&p=658517&viewfull=1#post658517) above:


The report said that the US Military planned to create a "telecommunications shield in the ionosphere at 3,000 km height, by bringing into orbit 350,000 million copper needles, each 2-4 cm long [total weight 16 kg], forming a belt 10 km thick and 40 km wide, the needles spaced about 100 m apart." This was designed to replace the ionosphere "because telecommunications are impaired by magnetic storms and solar flares." The US planned to add to the number of copper needles if the experiment proved to be successful. This plan was strongly opposed by the International Union of Astronomers." If one takes into account the existence of a "Breakaway civilization Space Command Fleet" which could actually conduct, unobserved, a spraying very high up in the upper atmosphere where no commercial jets can fly in the altitude range suggested for the copper needles, then, when that aluminum, barium, strontium mix slowly comes down to where commercial jets do fly; the mixture creates these seeded contrails which persist.

Commercial passenger flights are then blamed for the spraying of aerosols they have no clue how that would even be possible and therefore rightly consider whoever utter such nonsense as totally nuts.

See?

With this scenario, Fred259 is right in his analysis (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?20503-Chemtrails-don-t-exist&highlight=Chemtrails+don%27t)... debunkers are right about the mixture of aluminum, barium, strontium found on the ground and rain water... yet all are wrong regarding the persisting contrails!

... since they are seeded contrails by aerosols coming down from way higher up than passenger jet flight's corridors.

That particular scenario would also greatly alter the physical properties of the upper atmosphere and therefore skew the interpretation given by Laura knight-Jadczyk although she is much closer to reality than anyone else as to what's happening to our skies.


QED





All perfectly normal.

Maybe not! :)


http://circular_chemtrail_aircraft.jpghttp://projectavalon.net/circular_chemtrail_aircraft.jpg



Hi Herve, thats an impressive photo of the round thing.
But I am confused, through all your quoting other people, re directing to other threads, other posts, other peoples opinions, it seems that I am not understanding exactly what you are trying to say here. It is extremely distracting. Can you just say what you mean, in your own words. Directing and repeated redirecting, is a surefire way to throw a thread off course. Unless of course that is your goal.

[Hervé]

That post is made of my own words with quotes either containing my own conclusions or other people's research.

Read the thread (starting from here (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?57696-Why-In-The-World-Are-They-Spraying-A-geoengineering-explanation-for-chemtrails&p=658509&viewfull=1#post658509) [<--- click]) where it's coming from and you'll get a clearer picture... well, maybe :)

[DeDukshyn]

Sydney,

It is just a massive misunderstanding about the intentions of others due to blinding blanket emotional reactions that automatically and falsely reason that "if you do not fully agree with every presented detail on the topic under the umbrella of "X" then you MUST be a non-believer of "X" and someone who is against us."

It the exact same phenomenon (problem) that the sheep use to lump any person that believes in any conspiracy into a category of "kook" while completely ignoring everything actually being said.

[Sidney]

That post is made of my own words with quotes either containing my own conclusions or other people's research.

Read the thread where it's coming from and you'll get a clearer picture... well, maybe :)

Well, obviously the technology has evolved and changed over the years. But a group of say 10 jets and are flying back and forth, with no destination but the path they have already gone down, is not a commercial jet. It is doing a job. And the reasons for these operations also are probably evolving. If the earth is wrapped in a blanket of (whatever, dust, chemicals, metals etc.) at an altitude far above the ionosphere, then that would have a separate purpose than, say a layer of crap at a lower altitude that would be inside the earths atmosphere. With regards to a (secret advanced)space fleet, which IMO is a reality, of course they would also use advanced craft for purposes of much higher altitude spraying (whatever the reason being) as traditional airplanes would not have the same capabilities for.

In acknowledgement of the weather modification purpose, I want to say that IF they are modifying the weather on earth, with positive INTENT,,,,,, well they suck at it. And they ARE changing the weather. The weather, and nature and growing things, and the basic enjoyment of sunshine, and a natural thunderstorm is buried so far back in my own personal history, that I AM passionate about this.
We did not start having GLOBAL warming, and CLIMATE change, until the chemtrailing became a part of our everyday reality.

So if they are so bad at it, and are mucking everything up, like they ARE, they would stop. But they are not stopping. So either they are deliberately turning the earth into a huge mess, and killing huge HUGE numbers of species of plants and animals, or they are doing it because, the alternate outcome of (something) is so much worse than if they don't spray, and of course they can't tell us what or why, because we stupid humans are not emotionally equipped to handle what might be going on, just like denying us the truth about extraterrestrial life etc.

Without reading an entire other couple threads, I am not certain where you were going with it.

And like I said, that is an impressive photograph of the round craft. But is it spraying something, or is it just leaving a tail/trail? The advancement of the tech is greater each day/week/year, so its just a mind boggling topic, that really does go far beyond climate control etc.
Also the comment regarding the planes just being a holographic cover for something entirely different,,,well, I hadn't even thought of that one before, but its certainly a thought worth entertaining and YT has a variety of vids regarding that type of phenom.

[Sidney]

[QUOTE=DeDukshyn;909258]Sydney,

It is just a massive misunderstanding about the intentions of others due to blinding blanket emotional reactions that automatically and falsely reason that "if you do not fully agree with every presented detail on the topic under the umbrella of "X" then you MUST be a non-believer of "X" and someone who is against us."

It the exact same phenomenon (problem) that the sheep use to lump any person that believes in any conspiracy into a category of "kook" while completely ignoring everything actually being said.[/QUOTE
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------sorry screwed up the quote
Look, there are lots of ways to look at this, but this thread title is smoking gun "proof" of atmospheric sparying, and I was trying to stay in lines of how the conversation here was flowing without it going of into several different directions.

The topic of chemtrails, IMO, is very diverse with regard to the basic question of does it or does it not exise, and then branches off into other directions of motive, intent, the many various (possible) technologies, and the fallout of all of that with regards to the health to the planet and its many inhabitants.

And having to jump from thread to thread to thread IMO is keeping the reader from a smooth thought process.

I have actually suggested more than once, for a subsection of the forum to include a Chemtrail/Geoengineering section, because it seems that a new chemtrail thread pops up every few weeks, or more often than that, that we keep covering the same thing over and over and never finding agreement or solutions.

I think these conversations could be better organized, so that there doesn't need to be all this thread jumping. It IS distracting. Thats all I was saying.

[DeDukshyn]

Sydney,

It is just a massive misunderstanding about the intentions of others due to blinding blanket emotional reactions that automatically and falsely reason that "if you do not fully agree with every presented detail on the topic under the umbrella of "X" then you MUST be a non-believer of "X" and someone who is against us."

It the exact same phenomenon (problem) that the sheep use to lump any person that believes in any conspiracy into a category of "kook" while completely ignoring everything actually being said.[/QUOTE

Look, there are lots of ways to look at this, but this thread title is smoking gun "proof" of atmospheric sparying, and I was trying to stay in lines of how the conversation here was flowing without it going of into several different directions.

The topic of chemtrails, IMO, is very diverse with regard to the basic question of does it or does it not exise, and then branches off into other directions of motive, intent, the many various (possible) technologies, and the fallout of all of that with regards to the health to the planet and its many inhabitants.

And having to jump from thread to thread to thread IMO is keeping the reader from a smooth thought process.

I have actually suggested more than once, for a subsection of the forum to include a Chemtrail/Geoengineering section, because it seems that a new chemtrail thread pops up every few weeks, or more often than that, that we keep covering the same thing over and over and never finding agreement or solutions.

I think these conversations could be better organized, so that there doesn't need to be all this thread jumping. It IS distracting. Thats all I was saying.

Well, you said more than that but I get it. The proudly touted sarcasm on this thread referring to another thread topic is all obviously directed at me and possibly toward Herve as well. It is silly. It seems that whenever someone, like myself or Herve posts anything for consideration that may imply that something in this thread is not 100% "smoking gun", it is met with mockery and an attitude that I (or we) "just don't know any better because we are "non-believers"" - which both yourself and Observer seem to have taken. Talk about the enemy winning Avalonians implement their own version of "divide and conquer" where the only winners are the people who would rather us not really dig for the truth.

I find it a bit sad that I cannot suggest a possibility a UFO video, without being attacked and mocked, is actually migratory geese; something which if it is the truth, we need to know so when "sheep" who are smart and discerning, might have a chance of not having the stigma that "conspiracy theorists are kooks" be fully reinforced in their minds just because they visited Avalon. I feel similar thoughts about this thread.

Similarly, the posts and the "redirection" and "confusion" that Herve posted here was an attempt to paint a larger view and considerations that would indeed cause someone to step out of the box that this thread is in -- it was met with a harsh questioning of whether these intentions where nothing more than a distraction to this tightly boxed thread.

The "rulers" don't need to worry about divide and conquer - they put the program in our minds and we unconsciously act it out. The real progress is moving the mind away from that program ... but I digress ...

[Sidney]

Sydney,

It is just a massive misunderstanding about the intentions of others due to blinding blanket emotional reactions that automatically and falsely reason that "if you do not fully agree with every presented detail on the topic under the umbrella of "X" then you MUST be a non-believer of "X" and someone who is against us."

It the exact same phenomenon (problem) that the sheep use to lump any person that believes in any conspiracy into a category of "kook" while completely ignoring everything actually being said.[/QUOTE

Look, there are lots of ways to look at this, but this thread title is smoking gun "proof" of atmospheric sparying, and I was trying to stay in lines of how the conversation here was flowing without it going of into several different directions.

The topic of chemtrails, IMO, is very diverse with regard to the basic question of does it or does it not exise, and then branches off into other directions of motive, intent, the many various (possible) technologies, and the fallout of all of that with regards to the health to the planet and its many inhabitants.

And having to jump from thread to thread to thread IMO is keeping the reader from a smooth thought process.

I have actually suggested more than once, for a subsection of the forum to include a Chemtrail/Geoengineering section, because it seems that a new chemtrail thread pops up every few weeks, or more often than that, that we keep covering the same thing over and over and never finding agreement or solutions.

I think these conversations could be better organized, so that there doesn't need to be all this thread jumping. It IS distracting. Thats all I was saying.

Well, you said more than that but I get it. The proudly touted sarcasm on this thread referring to another thread topic is all obviously directed at me and possibly toward Herve as well. It is silly. It seems that whenever someone, like myself or Herve posts anything for consideration that may imply that something in this thread is not 100% "smoking gun", it is met with mockery and an attitude that I (or we) "just don't know any better because we are "non-believers"" - which both yourself and Observer seem to have taken. Talk about the enemy winning Avalonians implement their own version of "divide and conquer" where the only winners are the people who would rather us not really dig for the truth.

I find it a bit sad that I cannot suggest a possibility a UFO video, without being attacked and mocked, is actually migratory geese; something which if it is the truth, we need to know so when "sheep" who are smart and discerning, might have a chance of not having the stigma that "conspiracy theorists are kooks" be fully reinforced in their minds just because they visited Avalon. I feel similar thoughts about this thread.

Similarly, the posts and the "redirection" and "confusion" that Herve posted here was an attempt to paint a larger view and considerations that would indeed cause someone to step out of the box that this thread is in -- it was met with a harsh questioning of whether these intentions where nothing more than a distraction to this tightly boxed thread.

The "rulers" don't need to worry about divide and conquer - they put the program in our minds and we unconsciously act it out. The real progress is moving the mind away from that program ... but I digress ...

I am sorry that you feel that way. I am not here to argue. Really, my motive for participating in this thread is for the good of humanity. We all are entitled to breath air that is not contaminated with metal and other ****, that doesn't belong in our lungs. Thats is my motive, not to make anyone feel bad.
Big HUG coming your way. Peace

[Hervé]

[...]
Without reading an entire other couple threads, I am not certain where you were going with it.

[...]

That's summarized in my summary post above (one would need to read and understand though):



Pilots are correct in that most trails are contrails;
chemtrailers are correct with respect to a chemical soup falling down to the ground;
wrong origin of the soup falling down to the ground: it's not sprayed from the commercial airplanes but from above their flight levels;
hence the unending parochial fist-fights between the two sides with no possible resolution.

Therefore, accusing sincere commercial pilots of being agents or shills or whatever with accompanying sarcastic, ridiculing comments is, to me, a demonstration of a severe lack of discernment and/or serious research along with an inability to accept facts for what they are: facts!



As such, each set of facts needs to be taken into account and integrated into the full picture!


As for why "they" are doing it? It can be as stupid as stated in their patent and generate a substitute for the ionosphere or heat up the Arctic so they could setup drilling platforms up there... what else to expect from psychopaths?

[Sidney]

I didn't accuse any pilots of anything, and I never thought commercial planes were a part of it. So I hope you aren't accusing me of that. I said nothing of the kind.
:focus:

[Innocent Warrior]

I'm just writing as a witness and I'm earnestly just trying to understand what's going on. I won't bother listing all my experiences which have left me with no doubt that we have at least been sprayed (last time I witnessed a very low flying plane spraying was around the middle of last year), I have nothing to add that hasn't already been said. With that said, Herve's view fits much better than what I had figured. I think it's both and whatever is going on with our skies is a lot more complicated than I previously thought. Further research ahead for me on this issue (when I have the time) and I'll start with the other threads, thanks to everyone for their input.

[observer]

Therefore, accusing sincere commercial pilots of being agents or shills or whatever with accompanying sarcastic, ridiculing comments is, to me, a demonstration of a severe lack of discernment and/or serious research along with an inability to accept facts for what they are: facts!


Allow me to comment on this point, as it cuts into the crux of the situation.

My personal experience with the chemtrail phenomenon goes all the way back to the late 90s when it used to be a hot topic on the Art Bell, Coast-To-Coast Show. Throughout those many years since, I've worked around and with many pilots in my real world life. I've listened to, and debated these lame alleged "scientific" explanations from more pilots than have ever appeared on this forum.

I've been involved in many of the debates, in many of the threads regarding these alleged atmospheric inversions.

A good many suspected chemtrails are, in fact harmless contrails. No argument here.

But, when an individual is unwilling to look at the thousands of hours of research and documentation that I've seen, and presented, there is simply no other recourse. When someone is wrong and refused to see it - get my drift?

The Eskimos have a tradition where, when one of the tribal members is being unreasonable, the elder of the tribe will take that individual by the lapels of his coat and bang him against the side of the igloo - repeatedly. In that culture, the traditional response is to thank the tribal elder.

After well over fifteen years of dealing with individuals who view this material through a blood-clot, I've realized there is no other way of dealing with it.

[DeDukshyn]

Sydney,

It is just a massive misunderstanding about the intentions of others due to blinding blanket emotional reactions that automatically and falsely reason that "if you do not fully agree with every presented detail on the topic under the umbrella of "X" then you MUST be a non-believer of "X" and someone who is against us."

It the exact same phenomenon (problem) that the sheep use to lump any person that believes in any conspiracy into a category of "kook" while completely ignoring everything actually being said.[/QUOTE

Look, there are lots of ways to look at this, but this thread title is smoking gun "proof" of atmospheric sparying, and I was trying to stay in lines of how the conversation here was flowing without it going of into several different directions.

The topic of chemtrails, IMO, is very diverse with regard to the basic question of does it or does it not exise, and then branches off into other directions of motive, intent, the many various (possible) technologies, and the fallout of all of that with regards to the health to the planet and its many inhabitants.

And having to jump from thread to thread to thread IMO is keeping the reader from a smooth thought process.

I have actually suggested more than once, for a subsection of the forum to include a Chemtrail/Geoengineering section, because it seems that a new chemtrail thread pops up every few weeks, or more often than that, that we keep covering the same thing over and over and never finding agreement or solutions.

I think these conversations could be better organized, so that there doesn't need to be all this thread jumping. It IS distracting. Thats all I was saying.

Well, you said more than that but I get it. The proudly touted sarcasm on this thread referring to another thread topic is all obviously directed at me and possibly toward Herve as well. It is silly. It seems that whenever someone, like myself or Herve posts anything for consideration that may imply that something in this thread is not 100% "smoking gun", it is met with mockery and an attitude that I (or we) "just don't know any better because we are "non-believers"" - which both yourself and Observer seem to have taken. Talk about the enemy winning Avalonians implement their own version of "divide and conquer" where the only winners are the people who would rather us not really dig for the truth.

I find it a bit sad that I cannot suggest a possibility a UFO video, without being attacked and mocked, is actually migratory geese; something which if it is the truth, we need to know so when "sheep" who are smart and discerning, might have a chance of not having the stigma that "conspiracy theorists are kooks" be fully reinforced in their minds just because they visited Avalon. I feel similar thoughts about this thread.

Similarly, the posts and the "redirection" and "confusion" that Herve posted here was an attempt to paint a larger view and considerations that would indeed cause someone to step out of the box that this thread is in -- it was met with a harsh questioning of whether these intentions where nothing more than a distraction to this tightly boxed thread.

The "rulers" don't need to worry about divide and conquer - they put the program in our minds and we unconsciously act it out. The real progress is moving the mind away from that program ... but I digress ...

I am sorry that you feel that way. I am not here to argue. Really, my motive for participating in this thread is for the good of humanity. We all are entitled to breath air that is not contaminated with metal and other ****, that doesn't belong in our lungs. Thats is my motive, not to make anyone feel bad.
Big HUG coming your way. Peace

Well you didn't hurt my feelings :) but I did find it all silly and unnecessary, my 2 cents;) BTW -- it really was concluded by the OP, most likely geese in the end. :P And a return hug after the teasing tongue ;)

[Sidney]

Sydney,

It is just a massive misunderstanding about the intentions of others due to blinding blanket emotional reactions that automatically and falsely reason that "if you do not fully agree with every presented detail on the topic under the umbrella of "X" then you MUST be a non-believer of "X" and someone who is against us."

It the exact same phenomenon (problem) that the sheep use to lump any person that believes in any conspiracy into a category of "kook" while completely ignoring everything actually being said.[/QUOTE

Look, there are lots of ways to look at this, but this thread title is smoking gun "proof" of atmospheric sparying, and I was trying to stay in lines of how the conversation here was flowing without it going of into several different directions.

The topic of chemtrails, IMO, is very diverse with regard to the basic question of does it or does it not exise, and then branches off into other directions of motive, intent, the many various (possible) technologies, and the fallout of all of that with regards to the health to the planet and its many inhabitants.

And having to jump from thread to thread to thread IMO is keeping the reader from a smooth thought process.

I have actually suggested more than once, for a subsection of the forum to include a Chemtrail/Geoengineering section, because it seems that a new chemtrail thread pops up every few weeks, or more often than that, that we keep covering the same thing over and over and never finding agreement or solutions.

I think these conversations could be better organized, so that there doesn't need to be all this thread jumping. It IS distracting. Thats all I was saying.

Well, you said more than that but I get it. The proudly touted sarcasm on this thread referring to another thread topic is all obviously directed at me and possibly toward Herve as well. It is silly. It seems that whenever someone, like myself or Herve posts anything for consideration that may imply that something in this thread is not 100% "smoking gun", it is met with mockery and an attitude that I (or we) "just don't know any better because we are "non-believers"" - which both yourself and Observer seem to have taken. Talk about the enemy winning Avalonians implement their own version of "divide and conquer" where the only winners are the people who would rather us not really dig for the truth.

I find it a bit sad that I cannot suggest a possibility a UFO video, without being attacked and mocked, is actually migratory geese; something which if it is the truth, we need to know so when "sheep" who are smart and discerning, might have a chance of not having the stigma that "conspiracy theorists are kooks" be fully reinforced in their minds just because they visited Avalon. I feel similar thoughts about this thread.

Similarly, the posts and the "redirection" and "confusion" that Herve posted here was an attempt to paint a larger view and considerations that would indeed cause someone to step out of the box that this thread is in -- it was met with a harsh questioning of whether these intentions where nothing more than a distraction to this tightly boxed thread.

The "rulers" don't need to worry about divide and conquer - they put the program in our minds and we unconsciously act it out. The real progress is moving the mind away from that program ... but I digress ...

I am sorry that you feel that way. I am not here to argue. Really, my motive for participating in this thread is for the good of humanity. We all are entitled to breath air that is not contaminated with metal and other ****, that doesn't belong in our lungs. Thats is my motive, not to make anyone feel bad.
Big HUG coming your way. Peace

Well you didn't hurt my feelings :) but I did find it all silly and unnecessary, my 2 cents;) BTW -- it really was concluded by the OP, most likely geese in the end. :P And a return hug after the teasing tongue ;)

For what its worth, there have many many ufo videos posted on this forum that I have concluded were NOT alien craft, or even remotely close. So, it is true that sometimes things that go bump in the night, is only the cat.

And sometimes when airplanes spew things other than VAPOR, we need to find out what it is and why.

[DeDukshyn]

And sometimes when airplanes spew things other than VAPOR, we need to find out what it is and why.

I don't disagree, never have, nor indicated to have had; and Herve pointing to "bigger pictures" and other rationales also agree with that sentiment. Let us all work to not lose track of the larger goal, myself included.

[Sidney]

Night Spraying Pictures

28192

[sheme]

http://climate.envsci.rutgers.edu/pdf/RobockStratAerosolGeo.pdf

Ask the wrong question and you get denial -the wording of your enquiries must not use the chem trail words. As usual they tell us what they have been doing after they have done it- by proposing it as a future possibility.

[Koyaanisqatsi]

There are companies today in Russia that, for 6k dollars, will contractually assure couples no rain on their wedding day. Read an article about it recently in a major media outlet i think, im at work sneakily lurking the forums so i wont likely have time to search for the link but maybe one of you bright minds can try for us. i found it very interesting

[DeDukshyn]

There are companies today in Russia that, for 6k dollars, will contractually assure couples no rain on their wedding day. Read an article about it recently in a major media outlet i think, im at work sneakily lurking the forums so i wont likely have time to search for the link but maybe one of you bright minds can try for us. i found it very interesting

I did a quick search and found nothing, but I have thought the exact same concerning weather in our city for certain events. My city is basically built around the oil and gas industry, and those folks certainly have the $$ to pay for some spraying. These events I refer to are often sponsored by big oil. When the forecast seems set for something then it suddenly does the opposite, right at the time of one of these events, it does make you wonder.

[heyokah]

There are companies today in Russia that, for 6k dollars, will contractually assure couples no rain on their wedding day. Read an article about it recently in a major media outlet i think, im at work sneakily lurking the forums so i wont likely have time to search for the link but maybe one of you bright minds can try for us. i found it very interesting




Out of Russia: For a price, even weather is up for sale

MOSCOW - I saw God the other day. He has white hair, two silver teeth and grey-blue eyes. He celebrates his 57th birthday on Tuesday.
****Friday 09 October 1992 :)

Lev Pokhmelnykh - for that is God's name when it comes to deciding whether it rains or shines - is a scientist by profession. He used to work for the state meteorological bureau; before that he studied physics. Today, he has his own company, Elate Intelligent Technologies (EIT), small in size but hugely ambitious. Its product: 'weather made to order'.

Dr Pokhmelnykh explains: he can - for a fee - make the heavens smile on your wedding day or drench the garden party of an enemy; halt a gale or whip up wind to puff away pollution from Los Angeles. No problem is too big for the doctor. His brochure lists a few of them: hurricanes, tornadoes, typhoons, rain, floods, hail, fog, snowfall, sandstorms, urban smog, acid rain, storms.

For dollars 6m ( pounds 3.5m) plus 60m roubles ( pounds 106,000) - 'we have a few expenses in Russia' - he promises a hurricane-free Florida. Smaller jobs - weddings, birthdays and sports events - cost less. Moscow's Luzhniki Stadium, for example, can, if it ever pays the necessary 5 million roubles, ensure that rain never stops play. And this is just the beginning. 'I can do a lot more. This is just a small part of my work.'

Unfortunately for Dr Pokhmelnykh - and, he quickly points out, for the people of Florida who could have been spared Andrew's fury if the US embassy in Moscow had listened - only a handful of people take him seriously. He is not helped by the fact that his name, to Russian ears, sounds a lot like 'Dr Hangover'.

'I've been working 16 hours a day for 25 years and don't feel like God at all. It is very hard work. We just have to keep going. The potential of my work is immense.'

The source of this potential is a small plot of land at Bukovo airport outside Moscow. On it stand a row of 25-foot metal posts strung with wire. A shed nearby contains more wire and computers. What they do, precisely, is a secret - patent applications are kept in a safe next to Dr Pokhmelykh's desk. It has something to do with electrical charges reacting with ions in the air.

Lev Pokhmelnykh - for that is God's name when it comes to deciding whether it rains or shines - is a scientist by profession. He used to work for the state meteorological bureau; before that he studied physics. Today, he has his own company, Elate Intelligent Technologies (EIT), small in size but hugely ambitious. Its product: 'weather made to order'.

Dr Pokhmelnykh explains: he can - for a fee - make the heavens smile on your wedding day or drench the garden party of an enemy; halt a gale or whip up wind to puff away pollution from Los Angeles. No problem is too big for the doctor. His brochure lists a few of them: hurricanes, tornadoes, typhoons, rain, floods, hail, fog, snowfall, sandstorms, urban smog, acid rain, storms.

For dollars 6m ( pounds 3.5m) plus 60m roubles ( pounds 106,000) - 'we have a few expenses in Russia' - he promises a hurricane-free Florida. Smaller jobs - weddings, birthdays and sports events - cost less. Moscow's Luzhniki Stadium, for example, can, if it ever pays the necessary 5 million roubles, ensure that rain never stops play. And this is just the beginning. 'I can do a lot more. This is just a small part of my work.'

Unfortunately for Dr Pokhmelnykh - and, he quickly points out, for the people of Florida who could have been spared Andrew's fury if the US embassy in Moscow had listened - only a handful of people take him seriously. He is not helped by the fact that his name, to Russian ears, sounds a lot like 'Dr Hangover'.

'I've been working 16 hours a day for 25 years and don't feel like God at all. It is very hard work. We just have to keep going. The potential of my work is immense.'

The source of this potential is a small plot of land at Bukovo airport outside Moscow. On it stand a row of 25-foot metal posts strung with wire. A shed nearby contains more wire and computers. What they do, precisely, is a secret - patent applications are kept in a safe next to Dr Pokhmelykh's desk. It has something to do with electrical charges reacting with ions in the air.

Read more : http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/out-of-russia-for-a-price-even-weather-is-up-for-sale-1556300.html

[Sidney]

http://www.geoengineeringwatch.org/

http://www.aircrap.org/

http://chemtrailsplanet.net/2013/01/17/whistleblower-airline-mechanic-reveals-details-of-chemtrail-operation/

third link also has many links listed on his page

[Chip]

Chipsam - You post the first response to a thread entitled "Smoking Gun Proof of Atmospheric Spraying", introducing yourself as an experienced pilot for 20+ years, having an ongoing interest in the issue of chemtrails and related phenomenon, claiming to just be interested in getting to the bottom of things.

I also happen to have an aviation background. You did not mention your total hours, or the specific type of rating you hold, nor what type of aircraft you have flown over the 20 years of your aviation career. It is not typical for anyone with former military training (a great majority of the pilots working in civil aviation in the US come from the military) or for that matter anyone working in avaition for 20+ years, such as yourself, to not mention these facts as a way of establishing your credibility and as a way of helping us to orient to your particular area of expertise or experience. If you are a guy who has flown small business jets for most of your career (which if that is what you claim it is even more curious as corporate pilots are almost always hired on as high time ex military or commercial pilots with a lot of experience- you do not let your Company CEO climb into the company's G7 with some greenhorn at the controls)

But what is even MORE peculiar that is that your Avatar has you listed as based on Palmdale. You describe yourself as having an interest in the topic of Chemtrails for many years. You come on this thread, in this forum, to tell us that you, an experienced pilot (who has even watched the vapor trails from your own jet on rear facing cameras during flight for gosh sakes), have yet to see ANYTHING that would support the notion that our government, or some agencies of our government, or perhaps as some have suggested very large and powerful corporate interests in partnership with the government, might be involved in some kind of atmospheric shenanigans.

I have never posted an attachment to a thread on Avalon, so forgive me if this doesn't quite work out as I hope, but- if I am successful, you should see two attachments posted below. I do not have any personal confusion about what I am seeing in the skies, and have not for many years. My difficulty is more about accepting the magnitude of the conspiracy this implies. Read the job posting. Look up the definition of some of the acronyms being used if you have trouble understanding what the job description is actually for. Don't take my word for it, please. Take it from Grumman- one of our mainstays in the military industrial foodchain. They need a line boy to check the tankers, to check the flow rates, to clean the nozzles, recharge the propellants, check the line pressures, someone with an engineering degree, someone who knows how to keep their mouth shut (9 years experience says you get how it works and keep you head down), and a top secret clearnance will be neccessary, of course. Just another one of the 980,000 Americans working today for our government with a Top Secret (or above) security clearance (this figure courtesy of Snowden disclosures)- just another one of our neighbors and fellow citizens who spend their days doing unspeakable things to their own kind in exchange for a steady paycheck, great dental and a pension plan.

But as far as spending our time and energy debating whether this is really going on or not, I am with Sidney, and the others here who are impatient with the ham fisted obstruction and disinfo- regardless of your agenda, or what on earth you may be thinking you are doing or who you work for, we are late in the game to be stalled at the starting line like this.




I guess I am the first to inform you of this amazing coincidence, but as it happens, right there in your hometown, your own little town of Palmdale, Ca- there is a rather gigantic airfield, right on the outskirts of town, up against the foothills of the Angeles Crest Mountains. It's a veritable hotbead of military activity- home assemble facility and testing grounds for the Predator Drone- you might have heard of that? Also home to many aerospace companies (Grumman, Raytheon, Lockheed Martin) with testing and R&D facilities based there. I would be willing to bet there are more Military pilots with top secret security clearances clogging up the local bars on a Friday night in your hometown than just about anywhere on the planet. And somehow you have not seen or heard anything unusual in all of your 20+ years in the aviation realm. I gotta say that is beyond amazing.

Umm, ok... So, what are you trying to say? Can you get to the point?
First, I am very aware of Skunk Works in my back yard.
Second, I was enlisted in the Navy and during my time as a Naval Test Parachutist stationed and Naval Weapons Center China Lake I went to school and finished all of my flight training privately. Many Pilots are "Not" military flyers or ex military flyers. Matter of fact the majority are Not ex military Pilots. Yes, there are many but not beyond 50 percent.
I have an ATP and my types as listed on my liscence: BBD-700, G-IV, G-V, Lr-60, Lr-Jet
As far as proving myself to you or even the way you come across as assuming I'm a phony or a shill, thats your problem. As it would be quite easy for me to post pictures of for instance: 1. testing the Nasa Space shuttle escape system (Naval test Parachutist portion of my life).
2. multitudes of pictures involving myself as a Bush Pilot in Alaska
3. multitudes of photos in various jets with my crew
Also once again, Im not doubting chemtrailing. I'm just stating my observations and dont have an "agenda", as you mentioned.
I'm still not sure why you posted the job sources as well. Perhaps you can elaborate?
Oh, why is it important to know my total hours? What bearing does this come into play? But since you asked I am at 12,450TT
I fly out of Burbank (KBUR) Van Nuys (KVNY). My last position was with a Management company named Avjet Corporation until the account that I was on flying the Global Express (BBD-700) was sold. I am now contracting between the Lr-60 and the BBD-700 and plan on staying contract until I find an account that fits my lifestyle a little better.
Dont know what else to tell you other than I have no "agenda".
Perhaps you could elaborate what exactly you are getting at?
cheers

[jerry]

In case you missed it this should help support the consensus of an agenda for the folks who are still not convinced. All we can do is lead the horse to water.......uv0Ko2OU4Ec

[Cidersomerset]

The initial story is that tow witness's saw military planes dropping a strnge fibre
substance. They contacted a local news station who covered the storey but the
lab they used to test samples said it was a form of agricultural bandage for
livestock. Whether thet deliberately or accidently used the wrong sample is open to
debate,but it did not fit with what the woman saw and the fibres they collected.
Thoughthey could of got contaminated when collected with the bandage fibres ?
speculation.

Anyway they were unhappy with the results and the vid immediately below explains
what they did. The vid goes on into other related information and highlights some
of the exceptions when it is valid for authorities to spray civilian populations and
its an eye opener . From the doc link below , she goes thru some of them. ( Though
I could not find them & gave up , though they are there if you have the time and
patience LOL )....Medical , therapeutic ? , pharma , agriculture , industrial
orResearch activities, prett broad I'd say. Then in the law and order section any
purpose related to Riot control. Could be spraying Ferguson soon then !!!


http://www.dod.mil/dodgc/olc/docs/1998NDAA.pdf


------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

AZ Jet Drops Odd Fibers From Sky & the Stunning Test Results! Doc Proves DOD Can Experiment on Us

FpkeV3SqyBY

Published on 6 Dec 2014


Here is the link that goes with the post: http://b4in.info/hiIQ

UPDATE FROM Maria Snow Herself:
"I am the person that was interviewed. I don't think CBS is lying at all about the sample they collected.
Cori and I had our own two samples collected mid-air and from fences. After I left the interview they
collected their own sample. What I saw in this interview was not what I saw falling from the direction
of an aircraft. Their sample was huge..... there are no samples of this "unknown fiber" that are that
large. I believe they collected what looked to them to be the same fibers, but in all actuality, may have
been a gauze bandage. There were cows down the street from where the interview was shot. I am not
making excuses for anyone. I am simply telling the truth.

"We had these fibers tested and they were extremely high in three heavy metals. No matter what you
call it, it fell from the direction of a military aircraft and on our heads... we inhaled this fiber... it
tested high for heavy metals. Are you going to just laugh it off and let your children play in this stuff?
It is occurring all over the globe... and what IF geoengineering/chemtrails are in fact much more than
a "conspiracy theory"... why risk your lives and the lives of those around you. Please Google "geoengineering.""

Subscribe to our website at:
http://vineoflifenews.com/

======================================================
======================================================

C-130 aircraft caught dropping massive ‘raindrop shaped fibers’ onto populace, lab tests confirm ‘metals’

Monday 8th December 2014 at 08:21 By David Icke


http://www.davidicke.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2014/12/get-attachment-93-587x329.jpg

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https://www.intellihub.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/12/intellihub_logo.png

https://www.intellihub.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/12/c-130-640x400.jpg


C-130 aircraft caught dropping massive ‘raindrop shaped fibers’ onto populace, lab tests confirm “metals”

December 5, 2014 6:03 pm EST

Independent lab tests point to mainstream cover-up of live biowarfare, geoengineering testing

By Shepard Ambellas

‘Marie Snow and her friend Cori Gunnels knew they stumbled across something sinister, one November day,
this year, when they saw what appeared to be 50 to 60-foot long “raindrops”, “solid” in nature, falling from
the sky in clusters, after three military aircraft, including a C-130, flew overhead, minutes prior, at an
altitude of an estimated 5,000-8,000 ft.

Using critical thinking skills, Snow and Gunnels, patriots and local residents, decided to collect samples of
the fibrous material which was deployed from the three military planes earlier that day, saving the samples
for testing. In fact, the fibers looked so ominous that Snow even opted not to touch them with her
“bare hands” and collected them on “white pieces of paper”.’

https://www.intellihub.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/12/Screenshot-2014-12-05-at-9.59.02-AM-300x221.png

Visible fibers, 50 to 60 feet long, left after three military aircraft were flying at approx. 5,000-8,000 ft. altitude.
(Photo Credit: Marie Snow)


Soon after, Snow, determined to know the truth, contacted her local news station, KPHO, CBS 5, inviting
them to investigate her fibrous discovery.

Within days, CBS 5 took Snow up on her offer, sending reporter Greg Argos to investigate the fibrous
samples she collected off of the natural terrain and nearby fence posts, also noting her eyewitness
account to the 3 military aircraft which flew overhead that day. However, what happened after
CBS 5 interviewed Snow may shock you.

According to Argos’ video piece, published Nov. 18, by CBS 5, samples of the unusual fibers, which
are “thicker than a spider web and “very strong”, were taken to Grand Canyon University’s Forensic
Science Lab for testing where a woman by the name of “Melissa Beddow” allegedly tested the
samples under “40 times magnification”.

As reported in the Argos piece, Beddow stated that the fibrous samples were likely “biodegradable
gauze” from “nearby cattle farms”, made up of “a mixture of wheat, gluten, flour and bacitracin,
an antibiotic” in what the network touted as a “straight story”.


urYgaP45ei8


However, after the local news piece aired, Snow and others were skeptical of Argos’ findings.
Snow was soon after urged by Al DiCicco, who appears in the documentary film “Shade the
Motion Picture”, a film about covert and sinister bioweapons testing programs, to contact
Intellihub News and get independent testing of the samples done by a reputable lab.
And that’s just what Marie Snow did.

On Nov. 22, Snow reached out to me, [Intellihub's Shepard Ambellas] to gather yet another
opinion on how to proceed after something just didn’t feel right to Snow about KPHO, CBS 5′s report.


https://www.intellihub.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/12/Screenshot-2014-12-05-at-9.55.47-AM.png

A C-130 and two other planes conducting biowarfare, geoengineering operations over Chino
Valley, Arizona, Nov., 2014. (Photo Credit: Marie Snow)

Once contacted by Snow, I, myself, recommended just what my friend Al DiCicco told her
to do, “get some independent testing done”as we could than later do a “powerful article”
if the results differed from KPHO, CBS 5′s findings.

And again, that’s just what Snow and Gunnels did, sending the samples to a credible lab,
a testing facility located in Redding California to properly and scientifically carry out
tests of several fibrous samples.

Days after, the actual results came back from the lab, and what was found may shock you.

The work orders, numbered “14K0279“, dated Dec. 4, 2014 and “14K0683“, dated Dec. 2,
2014, stated that “All analysis were performed under strict adherence to our established
Quality Assurance Plan” and that “solid” “fibers” were submitted by “Marie Snow”
for “general testing”.


https://www.intellihub.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/12/Screenshot-2014-12-05-at-11.54.11-AM.png

Astonishingly, both tests concluded that both samples indeed tested positive for three
metal analytes, “Aluminum”, “barium” and “strontium”, three substances commonly
known by dedicated researchers to be found in persistent contrails, i.e. chemtrails
and or geoengineering, terraforming operations as pointed out by investigative
researcher, activist, Rosalind Peterson, Agriculture Defense Coalition, in Shade
the Motion Picture.


https://www.intellihub.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/12/Screenshot-2014-12-05-at-11.57.53-AM.png


Coupling the Redding lab’s scientific findings, with Marie Snow’s eyewitness account
of the three military planes flying overhead, the fibrous material collected, and other
breakthrough research noted in Shade the Motion Picture, we must now hold the
mainstream news accountable for not reporting actual scientific evidence and findings
pertaining to persistent contrails, chemtrails, geoengineering or the terraforming
of our planetary atmosphere.

In fact scientists, likely not credible ones, Bill Gates and others are now claiming
that geoengineering is needed to block solar radiation, to prevent “global warming”.

Although some like Dr. Matthew Watson, University of Bristol, say that Solar
Radiation Management (SRM) could have “profoundly terrifying” consequences
possibly causing extreme drought or severe rainfall, conflicting weather, in
opposite regions of the globe not typical to the locality.

“Some of the techniques could also damage the ozone layer, leaving people
at risk of skin cancer, or potentially trigger conflicts amid tensions between
those affected by their deployment, the scientists said.”, as reported by
The Telegraph in the article Six radical ways to tackle global warming.

But maybe even more bothersome is the fact that theses biological,
chemical, and in some cases radiological, tests have all been approved
to be conducted on the general public, at any time, by the U.S.
government or military, under a public law.

https://www.intellihub.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/12/Screenshot-2014-12-05-at-10.02.08-AM-268x300.png

Mysterious fibers containing barium, strontium and aluminum found
on power lines after military test, Chino Valley, AZ. (Photo Credit: Marie Snow)





Read more: C-130 aircraft caught dropping massive ‘raindrop shaped fibers’ onto populace,
lab tests confirm 'metals'


https://www.intellihub.com/c-130-aircraft-seen-dropping-massive-raindrop-shaped-fibers-onto-populace-militarized-experiment/

[Sidney]

Chipsam - You post the first response to a thread entitled "Smoking Gun Proof of Atmospheric Spraying", introducing yourself as an experienced pilot for 20+ years, having an ongoing interest in the issue of chemtrails and related phenomenon, claiming to just be interested in getting to the bottom of things.

I also happen to have an aviation background. You did not mention your total hours, or the specific type of rating you hold, nor what type of aircraft you have flown over the 20 years of your aviation career. It is not typical for anyone with former military training (a great majority of the pilots working in civil aviation in the US come from the military) or for that matter anyone working in avaition for 20+ years, such as yourself, to not mention these facts as a way of establishing your credibility and as a way of helping us to orient to your particular area of expertise or experience. If you are a guy who has flown small business jets for most of your career (which if that is what you claim it is even more curious as corporate pilots are almost always hired on as high time ex military or commercial pilots with a lot of experience- you do not let your Company CEO climb into the company's G7 with some greenhorn at the controls)

But what is even MORE peculiar that is that your Avatar has you listed as based on Palmdale. You describe yourself as having an interest in the topic of Chemtrails for many years. You come on this thread, in this forum, to tell us that you, an experienced pilot (who has even watched the vapor trails from your own jet on rear facing cameras during flight for gosh sakes), have yet to see ANYTHING that would support the notion that our government, or some agencies of our government, or perhaps as some have suggested very large and powerful corporate interests in partnership with the government, might be involved in some kind of atmospheric shenanigans.

I have never posted an attachment to a thread on Avalon, so forgive me if this doesn't quite work out as I hope, but- if I am successful, you should see two attachments posted below. I do not have any personal confusion about what I am seeing in the skies, and have not for many years. My difficulty is more about accepting the magnitude of the conspiracy this implies. Read the job posting. Look up the definition of some of the acronyms being used if you have trouble understanding what the job description is actually for. Don't take my word for it, please. Take it from Grumman- one of our mainstays in the military industrial foodchain. They need a line boy to check the tankers, to check the flow rates, to clean the nozzles, recharge the propellants, check the line pressures, someone with an engineering degree, someone who knows how to keep their mouth shut (9 years experience says you get how it works and keep you head down), and a top secret clearnance will be neccessary, of course. Just another one of the 980,000 Americans working today for our government with a Top Secret (or above) security clearance (this figure courtesy of Snowden disclosures)- just another one of our neighbors and fellow citizens who spend their days doing unspeakable things to their own kind in exchange for a steady paycheck, great dental and a pension plan.

But as far as spending our time and energy debating whether this is really going on or not, I am with Sidney, and the others here who are impatient with the ham fisted obstruction and disinfo- regardless of your agenda, or what on earth you may be thinking you are doing or who you work for, we are late in the game to be stalled at the starting line like this.




I guess I am the first to inform you of this amazing coincidence, but as it happens, right there in your hometown, your own little town of Palmdale, Ca- there is a rather gigantic airfield, right on the outskirts of town, up against the foothills of the Angeles Crest Mountains. It's a veritable hotbead of military activity- home assemble facility and testing grounds for the Predator Drone- you might have heard of that? Also home to many aerospace companies (Grumman, Raytheon, Lockheed Martin) with testing and R&D facilities based there. I would be willing to bet there are more Military pilots with top secret security clearances clogging up the local bars on a Friday night in your hometown than just about anywhere on the planet. And somehow you have not seen or heard anything unusual in all of your 20+ years in the aviation realm. I gotta say that is beyond amazing.

Umm, ok... So, what are you trying to say? Can you get to the point?
First, I am very aware of Skunk Works in my back yard.
Second, I was enlisted in the Navy and during my time as a Naval Test Parachutist stationed and Naval Weapons Center China Lake I went to school and finished all of my flight training privately. Many Pilots are "Not" military flyers or ex military flyers. Matter of fact the majority are Not ex military Pilots. Yes, there are many but not beyond 50 percent.
I have an ATP and my types as listed on my liscence: BBD-700, G-IV, G-V, Lr-60, Lr-Jet
As far as proving myself to you or even the way you come across as assuming I'm a phony or a shill, thats your problem. As it would be quite easy for me to post pictures of for instance: 1. testing the Nasa Space shuttle escape system (Naval test Parachutist portion of my life).
2. multitudes of pictures involving myself as a Bush Pilot in Alaska
3. multitudes of photos in various jets with my crew
Also once again, Im not doubting chemtrailing. I'm just stating my observations and dont have an "agenda", as you mentioned.
I'm still not sure why you posted the job sources as well. Perhaps you can elaborate?
Oh, why is it important to know my total hours? What bearing does this come into play? But since you asked I am at 12,450TT
I fly out of Burbank (KBUR) Van Nuys (KVNY). My last position was with a Management company named Avjet Corporation until the account that I was on flying the Global Express (BBD-700) was sold. I am now contracting between the Lr-60 and the BBD-700 and plan on staying contract until I find an account that fits my lifestyle a little better.
Dont know what else to tell you other than I have no "agenda".
Perhaps you could elaborate what exactly you are getting at?
cheers

Chipsam and Buck

Just for the record, after reading Bucks post, specifically this part
I am with Sidney, and the others here who are impatient with the ham fisted obstruction and disinfo- regardless of your agenda, or what on earth you may be thinking you are doing or who you work for, we are late in the game to be stalled at the starting line like this.

I would just like to say I have never had a conversation nor made any statement implying Chipsam had any agendas of any kind.
I DO have my thoughts and personal suspicions regarding some others, but I never implied that Chipsam had an agenda.

I do happen to think there is an agenda, WORLDWIDE, not just on this forum, to cover up the MASS poisoning of this huge rock we call our home.

A little advice to Chipsam, since you are a pilot, you have some serious opportunities to observe what everybody else can't. AND, maybe that is why you can't see what is happening. If you spend vast quantities of time in the air, you probably get to see the sun on a regular basis, unobstructed. I don't have that luxury. I have not seen the sun for more that five minutes at a time, for well over a month. Its not frickin normal, not even in November, not where I live.

Start paying more attention to whats above you and below you. Have a small (good quality)camera with you.

Every time I have flown in the last ten years, I have clearly seen the spray planes doing their deeds. But it was above or below where commercial craft fly. And usually not very far.

You are awake. Even if you are skeptical, the seed is planted, and gives you a better chance of seeing something.

[Chip]

A little advice to chipsam, since you are a pilot, you have some serious opportunities to observe what everybody else can't. AND, maybe that is why you can't see what is happening. If you spend vast quantities of time in the air, you probably get to see the sun on a regular basis, unobstructed. I don't have that luxury. I have not seen the sun for more that five minutes at a time, for well over a month. Its not frickin normal, not even in November, not where I live.

Hi, Sidney
I am currently in talks with a fuel contractor that we routinely use. I'm trying to find out what's in the fuel and if he could come through with some lab results. This was 3 days ago and I am going to follow through, as this particular person owes me a favor.
This particular thread has allowed me to explore avenues outside of the norm by all questions asked and shared. This has been a long road as I have been following it for many years. I have found that like many things not all sources on the internet are accurate nor can be trusted.
I do get to experience much sun light and at FL450 can give you a nice dose of radiation as well. I've not noticed anything different about the Sun itself, if that is your question? Also, I have lived in the Desert regions of Southern California for the past 26 years and havent noticed any appreciable difference in the sky cover. But, I do hear differently from friends in other areas like yourself.
The only real difference that I have noticed appreciably is in the Jet Stream. It's been very unusual, with regards to direction, speed and temperature for the past 2 years.
Thanks

[jerry]

Yes we are all aware of the dissinfo that's disseminated here on the net with a vast majority coming from hired shills paid by the government for the sole purpose of disruption of news and further there cause for a NWO. One need be no sleuth just a notch over brain dead with a pulse ..... the following article goes in to this issue of propaganda and there are literally hundreds that similarly expose this truth. When so many different reports from so many different sources report on the issues of the day you realize that yes where theres smoke theres fire.
http://www.independentsentinel.com/u-s-government-agencies-present-propaganda-as-legitimate-news-reports/

"The new law has given sweeping powers to the government to push television, radio, newspaper, and social media onto the U.S. public. “It removes the protection for Americans,” says a Pentagon official who is concerned about the law. “It removes oversight from the people who want to put out this information. There are no checks and balances. No one knows if the information is accurate, partially accurate, or entirely false.”

[Sidney]

A little advice to chipsam, since you are a pilot, you have some serious opportunities to observe what everybody else can't. AND, maybe that is why you can't see what is happening. If you spend vast quantities of time in the air, you probably get to see the sun on a regular basis, unobstructed. I don't have that luxury. I have not seen the sun for more that five minutes at a time, for well over a month. Its not frickin normal, not even in November, not where I live.

Hi, Sidney
I am currently in talks with a fuel contractor that we routinely use. I'm trying to find out what's in the fuel and if he could come through with some lab results. This was 3 days ago and I am going to follow through, as this particular person owes me a favor.
This particular thread has allowed me to explore avenues outside of the norm by all questions asked and shared. This has been a long road as I have been following it for many years. I have found that like many things not all sources on the internet are accurate nor can be trusted.
I do get to experience much sun light and at FL450 can give you a nice dose of radiation as well. I've not noticed anything different about the Sun itself, if that is your question? Also, I have lived in the Desert regions of Southern California for the past 26 years and havent noticed any appreciable difference in the sky cover. But, I do hear differently from friends in other areas like yourself.
The only real difference that I have noticed appreciably is in the Jet Stream. It's been very unusual, with regards to direction, speed and temperature for the past 2 years.
Thanks

I personally don't think commercial airplanes are involved, but i suppose its not out of the question regarding jet fuel being tweaked for some purpose.

The planes I see spraying are usually white UNMARKED tankers. There is a bright pink one that i have also seen when they have 10 or 15 going at one location.

[aviators]

This video talks about the newer jet fuel JP8.
They started using this fuel back in 1997. It's very possible this is why
persistent contrails started showing up around this time.
One other note that makes sense is the fact there are pockets of moist dence
air at altitude. This could give the effect of spaying on and off like what is being seen in our skies.

Don't get me wrong I think there is somthing going on. Where is all this aluminum
Coming from? I just don't see how it could be practical to use jet liners.

Also someone recently pointed out the posibility the jets may be flying through this poison treated layer of air. Where the spraying is done at a much higher alitude.
Perhaps this has some merit.

Again the real question is "where is all this heavy metal aluminum etc.coming from"
Lots of material would have to be trucked/shipped to airports. We should have more whistle blowers don't you think.:cool:
FshkKWR6D2w

[Sidney]

Well, HE++ NO, its not practical, and neither is poisoning every man woman child tree and everything else on the planet, which is exactly what they are doing.. They are using jets. If its not jets, then its other craft that is holographically made to look like jets.

I am sorry, BUT, I know what I see with my own two eyes. And The same tankers, that fly back and forth over the same stretch 24 hours straight with absolutely no destination, OTHER than back and forth is definitely NOT practical, and they don't have subliminal white streaks plastered all over television, internet screens, magazines, childrens books, and even city buses for nothing.

I have been watching this occur for a lot of years now, and before that, I watched NATURE occur. People can debunk til they are blue in the face, and I will continue to speak my truth until the day I die, whether it is tomorrow, or next year or 30 years from now. People are targeted, killed, ridiculed, and bullied for speaking out. And let me tell you, the elites are paying people BIG BUCKS, to gang stalk and target anyone they cannot shut up. You think they are doing that for water vapor? Do I seem angry? Because I am angry.
My child is breathing metal and a boat load of other ++++ day in and day out. My best friends two sons both have asthma, almost everyone I know over 60 has some form of COPD, even my cat has asthma.
I used to be one heck of a gardener, now it it five times more time consuming to get all the kinks out of the crop, mainly do to ph issues, or it rains too much, or not at all. And they put a fancy name like global warming, or climate change.
Its a dog and pony show, really.
I am not a pilot, or a scientist, or any other fancy named professional, but I am smart, and I have fully functioning eyesight, and I have been an outdoor living type of person my entire life. They are spraying, they are doing it from jets, and maybe other ways also, and they have gotten very good at being sneaky about it, and even more aggressive about using subliminals in the media, and it appears to be working quite well by the looks of it.

Whew, end rant. :wizard:

[jerry]

Elite Think Tank Admits to Ongoing Climate Engineering Experiments
http://www.activistpost.com/2014/12/elite-think-tank-admits-to-ongoing.html

Nicholas West
Activist Post

If we could experiment with the atmosphere and literally play God, it's very tempting to a scientist. - Kenyan earth scientist Richard Odingo

For those who know about the history of geoengineering - aka chemtrails - you might be noticing a spate of admissions from the halls of establishment science and government that the "conspiracy theory" is no longer ... it is a fact.

Perhaps the efforts of independent researchers have forced such open disclosure, at least putting us over the hurdle of abject denial. However, the narrative being created for mainstream media consumption is disingenuous at best, and full-throttle manipulation at worst. Case in point is an admission from The Royal Society that geoengineering experiments are being debated for full rollout even in the absence of policy restrictions.

The elite UK think-tank, The Royal Society, has for years openly discussed control over the planet's weather. Their 2011 propaganda press release entitled "Who Decides?" is an overtly Orwellian exercise in problem-reaction-solution that, naturally, argues for a cabal of technocratic insiders to implement godlike power over the unwashed masses who are threatened both by their own ignorance as well as "rogue elements" that could hijack weather manipulation technology.

Mainstream outlet The Verge wound up echoing these supposed concerns in their 2013 article, "Weather wars: who should be allowed to engineer our climate?" which has the subtitle, "Geoengineering could be the silver bullet in fighting climate change — or the start of something even worse."


Let's bypass for a moment that there still is intense scientific debate about the legitimacy of those who assign climate change to certain man-made activities, and instead look to these attempts to portray a full consensus that leapfrogs us to do-or-die solutions.

Even though the above story appears to have been originally disseminated by the Associated Press, what was not mentioned in any of the establishment outlets is the backstory that indicates a much longer timeline in getting to the conclusion that geoengineering is possibly the only hope that remains for saving the earth.

The Royal Society published a paper further back in 2009, which was based upon a 12-month study; the results were given the title: "Geoengineering the climate: science, governance and uncertainty."

If we look at the recommendations from this report, then look at what is being discussed today as something supposedly novel, an agenda emerges. The report recommends:
•Parties to the UNFCCC (United Nations Framework Convention on Climate Change - Ed.) should make increased efforts towards mitigating and adapting to climate change and in particular to agreeing to global emissions reductions of at least 50% on 1990 levels by 2050 and more thereafter;
•CDR (Carbon Dioxide Removal - Ed.) and SRM (Solar Radiation Management - Ed.) geoengineering methods should only be considered as part of a wider package of options for addressing climate change. CDR methods should be regarded as preferable to SRM methods.
•Relevant UK government departments, in association with the UK Research Councils, should together fund a 10 year geoengineering research programme at a level of the order of £10M per annum.
•The Royal Society, in collaboration with international science partners, should develop a code of practice for geoengineering research and provide recommendations to the international scientific community for a voluntary research governance framework.
Citing the slow path of debate and legislation, the panel of "twelve leading academics representing science, economics, law and social science" advocate for climate engineering as a "final hope." This was 2009, of course; so when we read their latest press release "Atmospheric particles can brighten cold clouds as well as warm ones" an otherwise innocuous title should trigger an alarm.

Indeed, here we see that what is bullet-pointed above - and discussed within the study - as a non-preferable, potentially dangerous tinkering with global systems is underway.

For the first time, modeling research led by Pacific Northwest National Laboratory found that atmospheric particles can brighten cold clouds in the Arctic. Using simulations, they showed that low clouds over the Arctic may be brightened by deliberately injecting small particles known as aerosols. It's already well known that injecting aerosols into low clouds over the warm ocean can, in some circumstances, reduce the amount of sunlight that reaches the surface. The concept, untested over the Arctic until now, is called marine cloud brightening, and it can also happen when ships send exhaust into the atmosphere.
The full report consists of 14 articles discussing several climate engineering methods, some openly available here (others are locked). There appears to be a consistent message that the politics of proper governance could impede much-needed field experimentation.

However, there is additional vague language similar to the section above which leaves uncertainty about what exactly has been modeled by computers and what might have already been tested in the open. What cannot be doubted, however, is that the volume of scientific articles now published indicates a real agenda with massive scope, a massive budget and massive consequences.

Also clear is a reinforcement of the meme that climate scientists are proceeding with caution - a notion highlighted recently by Harvard, but which has very little basis in the general history of scientific endeavors that have claimed a do-or-die right to proceed (nuclear, GMO, vaccines, etc.).

As with all things secretive, governmental, and possessing a military component, we only can do our best to independently research cause and effect. Such research by those who have dedicated their energy to uncovering the climate change/geoengineering agenda seem to conclude that engineering the planet's weather is not a "final hope" ... but more likely to be our Finale.

Main source:
http://phys.org/news/2014-12-atmospheric-particles-brighten-cold-clouds.html

[Sidney]

Copy and pasted, apologies if it got scrambled a bit, I think I got it fixed tho.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

WOW… we know that Bill Gates is involved heavily in the global vaccination program, which is just a trojan horse for a massive global depopulation program (See this article from YourNewsWire). He is also funding MASSIVE GMO food programs (also depopulation – see this YourNewsWire article), which is why the recent revelations about his connections to chemtrails (possibly more depopulation) isn’t as surprising as it should be.

In an article written by Rumor Mill News titled “Bill Gates Funding Chemtrails Program – Global Warming is a LIE” [2], the author makes some connections between Gates and chemtrails you really need to read.

The article states:

Advertisement
The latest scam to enter the debate about so-called “global warming” involves spending billions of dollars to spray the atmosphere with tiny particulate matter for the alleged purpose of reflecting sunlight back into space, and thus cooling the planet. But research into this controversial practice of “chemtrailing,” which has actually already been going on for quite some time now, is largely funded directly by Mr. Vaccine himself, the infamous Bill Gates.

The U.K.’s Guardian paper reports that Gates, who is a huge advocate of global intervention programs that forcibly affect large people groups whether they like it or not, has been spending untold millions of dollars from his own personal fortune to fund research into geo-engineering programs. These funds are being used to study things like how much it will cost every year to blast the skies with tiny particles of sulfur dioxide, a toxic industrial byproduct linked to serious respiratory illnesses like asthma (http://www.epa.gov/air/sulfurdioxide/).

Gates and his small cadre of allies, which include co-founder of Skype Niklas Zennstrom and owner of the Virgin Group Sir Richard Branson, reportedly spend exorbitant amounts of cash every year trying to push geo-engineering initiative across the globe. They claim that if nations like the U.S. will not cut greenhouse gas emissions by tremendous amounts, the spraying of toxic poisons into the atmosphere will be necessary to thwart impending disaster.

The entire concept of geo-engineering to save the planet is utter hogwash, of course. This is true not only because “global warming” itself has proven to be a man-made scam, but also because literally blocking sunlight for the stated purpose of reflecting the warmth of its rays back into space makes no logical or scientific sense.

Learn more: http://www.naturalnews.com/034906_Bill_Gates_geo-engineering_chemtrails.html#ixzz2TmOIr8wc [1]

Another report found here:

Bill Gates admits to chemtrails | Hang The Bankers | He Who Controls the Money Supply, Controls the World

http://www.hangthebankers.com/bill-gates-admits-to-chemtrails/ [3]

This is the man who last year told us we need to be at zero CO2 levels. He must think we are stupid as nothing would grow in a zero CO2 environment.

This is also the same man who created a “back door” for Windows Operating Systems for your computer so Big Brother can snoop on you without your permission or knowing. Not to mention he wants you and your children to take deadly vaccine shots.

Why do you think he was allowed to become so wealthy and successful? He is one of them…that’s why.

He has to go.

3 strikes and your out Bill.

He belong in jail where he can do no more harm to us and our planet.

Pay attention to his friends because birds of a feather flock together.





SOURCE

[1] http://www.naturalnews.com/034906_Bill_Gates_geo-engineering_chemtrails.html#ixzz2TmOIr8wc

[2] http://beforeitsnews.com/alternative/2013/05/bill-gates-funding-chemtrails-program-global-warming-is-a-lie-2654316.html

[3] http://www.hangthebankers.com/bill-gates-admits-to-chemtrails/

- See more at: http://yournewswire.com/bill-gates-and-chemtrails-a-connection-deeper-than-you-could-ever-imagine/#sthash.7tIPETO0.dpuf

[Sidney]

Very good photos of an air assault.
http://yournewswire.com/switzerland-being-bombed-with-chemtrails-amazing-photo-gallery/

and regarding southern California



https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=chemtrails+southern+california&search_sort=video_date_uploaded

[Sidney]

A little advice to chipsam, since you are a pilot, you have some serious opportunities to observe what everybody else can't. AND, maybe that is why you can't see what is happening. If you spend vast quantities of time in the air, you probably get to see the sun on a regular basis, unobstructed. I don't have that luxury. I have not seen the sun for more that five minutes at a time, for well over a month. Its not frickin normal, not even in November, not where I live.

Hi, Sidney
I am currently in talks with a fuel contractor that we routinely use. I'm trying to find out what's in the fuel and if he could come through with some lab results. This was 3 days ago and I am going to follow through, as this particular person owes me a favor.
This particular thread has allowed me to explore avenues outside of the norm by all questions asked and shared. This has been a long road as I have been following it for many years. I have found that like many things not all sources on the internet are accurate nor can be trusted.
I do get to experience much sun light and at FL450 can give you a nice dose of radiation as well. I've not noticed anything different about the Sun itself, if that is your question? Also, I have lived in the Desert regions of Southern California for the past 26 years and havent noticed any appreciable difference in the sky cover. But, I do hear differently from friends in other areas like yourself.
The only real difference that I have noticed appreciably is in the Jet Stream. It's been very unusual, with regards to direction, speed and temperature for the past 2 years.
Thanks
Regarding your statement here, I just realized I never answered you. "I've not noticed anything different about the Sun itself, if that is your question? "

I was not necessarily implying you look for some sun anomaly, although you could do that too. Sometimes if you take photos of the sky, regardless of whether anything is visible to the naked eye or not, you may get some surprises when you upload photos to a larger screen.
But I was mainly saying, is if you REALLY start paying close attention, every time you fly, make a point, to notice the spray tankers above and/or below you.

[Aspen]

lZaD-H_j3pU this thread is not complete without this video. Wonderful words, finally, from a chemtrail pilot. Operation Indigo Skyfold is the name of the current chemtrail operation over the US and the Pacific Ocean.. . . .apparently! The pilot states that the technology has advanced so that future chemtrails will be practically invisible and contain even more toxic material. It is to shift east and the pilot thinks it is to cause more drought. . . .

This video was posted today, Dec. 14 in its own thread by Kerrielea