Looks real to me :) [real wild geese, that is]

[Hervé]

VFNvddaERBY
Published on Dec 2, 2014www.tercermilenio.tv

On 15 April 2014, Daniel Sánchez, Skywatcher for the airport area of Mexico City, managed to capture a fleet of UFOs through his infrared vision equipment.


Any mundane explanation welcome!

PS: A quick search didn't yield this video as already posted.

If already posted, let me know :)

[DeDukshyn]

Looks a bit like geese to me ... the way they move, changing places within the "V". Of course the look like white spots but so does everyhthing else in the video. They fly like Canada geese (or occasionally ducks) though.

The speed seems way too fast for geese, but if the background is stars and a high power zoom is you would get that effect.

I thought I also saw an undulation in the size of the white spots -- I first thought of wings flapping.

Not too sure but I would first try to debunk geese.

My 1st impression.

EDIT: I grew up on a lake and would see geese flying formations ALL the time ... here is a video that shows geese changing about in order and re-creating the "V" structure while changing positions as they fly - it's short but one gets the general idea ...

RN0SO5Q4_SQ

[Hervé]

Looks a bit like geese to me ... [...]

Personally, I have never seen geese flying with a leader so far ahead of the V-formation... nor the V-formation looping around like the "hot" dots in the video.

[DeDukshyn]

Looks a bit like geese to me ... [...]

Personally, I have never seen geese flying with a leader so far ahead of the V-formation... nor the V-formation looping around like the "hot" dots in the video.

Can you prove or provide reasonable doubt they are not geese? Geese are constantly looping around and changing positions in their "V" - I see this all the time, and I have watched a lot of geese "V" formations in my life. I'm one who always stops for minute to look up and stare at them as the pass (watch for goose poo though - that stuff is nasty! ;))

You have to admit though - a pretty uncanny resemblance ...

[Hervé]

[...]

You have to admit though - a pretty uncanny resemblance ...

Yes, excepted for the leader remaining far ahead of the formation and which I have never seen happening with geese or ducks.

[DeDukshyn]

[...]

You have to admit though - a pretty uncanny resemblance ...

Yes, excepted for the leader remaining far ahead of the formation and which I have never seen happening with geese or ducks.

I am not too sure about that part ... the geese here are heading south, I just saw a bunch of formations yesterday and the day before. I'll try to get out a bit tomorrow and see if I can see any that have the leader way out ahead of the pack like that, it doesn't sound impossible to me, and I can't say I have ever noticed that or not before. If I do observe it, I will try to get a pic. Either way If I can help confirm or deny any of this a little I will report back.

ANOTHER EDIT: In an attempt to debunk my own theory quickly I did find that Canada Geese DO go to Mexico in the winter and by April (the time the video was taken), they would be headed back north - ish. (I find geese don't really travel in straight lines at all - I assume the same for ducks but I don't regularly see ducks flying in formation here -- except to fly with Geese in their formation which does happen sometimes - interestingly ;))

Any indication on the bearing of the white dots? Ok I found that part - east to south, but knowing the way geese fly, that doesn't mean a whole lot to me, but is a mild indicator.

[Tyy1907]

I live up in Canada and see geese a lot as well. Those definately didn't look like geese to me. Those things were moving. Also the fact that they maintain that circular shape in those few seconds before they kind of fade out. Thats interesting they couldn't be seen without infrared.

[Mike Gorman]

They are traveling way too fast for Geese, Ducks etc - I'd like a precise measurement of the velocity

[DeDukshyn]

I live up in Canada and see geese a lot as well. Those definately didn't look like geese to me. Those things were moving.

If you mean moving compared to the background --> zoom lens - as would be needed to get a close frame shot of distant objects (look through binoculars and then turn your head - you get the idea). They were moving around in their formation rather quickly for geese (less so for ducks), but for all anyone knows the video could be sped up slightly for time considerations for the report. There's no original audio played with the clip and there are no other references in the video other than the stars in the background, so it is impossible to know (which is unfortunate -- I am going to have to put together a "how to photo / video UFOs").



Also the fact that they maintain that circular shape in those few seconds before they kind of fade out.

I watched again and didn't see any circles -- got me excited for a second there ;) Can you give a timestamp for that, please so I can have a closer look?



Thats interesting they couldn't be seen without infrared.

Well, geese, flying at night at high altitude (and they can fly very high - up to 35,000 feet!!) -are invisible to the naked eye, but they would show up on infrared ... (birds don't give off light, but they are warm blooded - infrared detects closer to the spectrum of dissipated heat)

I'm not easily convinced on anything today -- must be the approaching moon. ;)

[Tyy1907]

What I meant was the objects appear as circles and not birds flapping wings.

[Sunny-side-up]

Maybe the pilots are related to geese and or ducks;)

Who or what ever they are they look like they are having fun!
crazily skilled pilots me thinks.

[SKIBADABOMSKI]

Maybe the leading goose has a serious bad case of diarrhea.

Not spoke to you for ages Amzer Zo, hope alls well my friend.

Ski-

[DeDukshyn]

What I meant was the objects appear as circles and not birds flapping wings.

It's a night shot at very low resolution and in infrared at a vast distance, likely with a crappy camera ... this is what it would look like in that environment - you wouldn't see details - just like you can't see any details in the stars - everything in the video is nothing more than lighter coloured blobs against a dark background - the phenomenon is ubiquitous in every part of the video. To me I saw a bit of undulation in the size of the "circles". at such low fidelity / resolution, this how one would see the "flapping".

[Hervé]

Wondering about "vols de nuit" school training for geese:

Morris: Nighttime geese flights (http://www.mercurynews.com/animal-life/ci_24460936/morris-nighttime-geese-flights)

By Joan Morris, Contra Costa Times
jmorris@bayareanewsgroup.com
Posted: 11/10/2013 12:00:00 PM PST


http://extras.mnginteractive.com/live/media/site568/2013/1029/20131029__ecct1111joan%7E1.JPG (http://www.mercurynews.com/portlet/article/html/imageDisplay.jsp?contentItemRelationshipId=5525853)
Canadian geese in flight. ( KAREN T. BORCHERS )


DEAR JOAN: Last week I was ready to turn in when I heard a flock of geese flying over our home. It was 10:40 at night. They were flying north, toward a large field about a quarter mile from our home where we are accustomed to seeing flocks of Canada geese land.

Lately, we've heard coyotes late at night yipping from that general direction. The geese flying that night were flying during the last full moon.

Do Canada geese fly at night? I would appreciate your thoughts. I have always enjoyed seeing and hearing the flocks flying by, but always during the day.

Nicole Eggenberger
San Jose

DEAR NICOLE: Although we think of birds as roosting during the night, Canada geese do fly at night, especially during the migration.

The geese have excellent memories and vision, allowing them to spot and remember landmarks on the ground and in the sky. Although they don't have the night vision of a cat, their ability to see in the dark is 12 times greater than ours. In daylight, they see color better than we do.

The birds probably were taking advantage of the moonlight to help them on their southward journey.


-----------------------------------------------


So... what would be needed would be for someone to video geese on a night flight through IR goggles and compare...

Although the lonely leader still distinguishes what the skywatcher videoed from a natural flock of geese... I think :)

[TrumanCash]

Yes, I do have a more mundane explanation--swamp gas! ;)

[Hervé]

...

http://media.giphy.com/media/kaq6GnxDlJaBq/giphy.gif

[Maia Gabrial]

Looks like the one in front is being chased by that formation of crafts. What can I say? It looks that way to me!

[observer]

O.K. to the doubters. Does this look real to you? Ever hear of geese departing from the Moon?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CtyFQRkhW9g&feature=youtu.be

Look very closely during the first minute, after that, there's no question.

Four years into this Avalon website project, and we're still trying to convince the doubters???

[Hervé]

O.K. to the doubters. Does this look real to you? Ever hear of geese departing from the Moon?

[...]

From the comment section of that video:


https://ssl.gstatic.com/s2/oz/images/cleardot.gifhttps://gp4.googleusercontent.com/-Sv0r2jD8XAM/AAAAAAAAAAI/AAAAAAAAAQ0/5AS5PnfPizc/s48-c-k-no/photo.jpg (http://www.youtube.com/profile_redirector/115379894939318291128)A D (http://www.youtube.com/profile_redirector/115379894939318291128) 1 month ago (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CtyFQRkhW9g&google_comment_id=z13aipeiezqfs3zce22hude4wxmdx5tps04)

Moon bats. He really wants you to view it in 1080p lol. Well by all means do; you'll see that the "UFOs" in that video do not suffer from the chromatic aberration clearly visible all around the moon as a blue fringe. Nor do they go out of focus as the approach the edge of the field of view, even though the moon does due to field curvature in the lens. That's because they were composited in afterwards, they're not real. I hate hoaxers. With a passion.
so... ... :focus:

[DeDukshyn]

O.K. to the doubters. Does this look real to you? Ever hear of geese departing from the Moon?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CtyFQRkhW9g&feature=youtu.be

Look very closely during the first minute, after that, there's no question.

Four years into this Avalon website project, and we're still trying to convince the doubters???

"wooosh!" right over your head? What I am claiming is this: that what was in the video that Amzer posted looked like geese to me.

They are flying in general "V" formation -- like geese,
They are switching positions within the "V" like geese -- as can be observed in the video I posted of geese above,
The video was taken in Mexico in April -- both the time and the place to observe geese flying in such a "V" formation,
Geese do fly at night (thanks Herve above for posting confirmation of this) when migrating.
At night, at say an altitude of say 2km (6000 ft) feet, which geese can indeed fly at when migrating, you would not hear them, you would not see them with the naked eye, but if you used an infrared camera with a zoom lens - the infrared sensor would indeed pick up the heat signatures of the geese. They would show up more or less as spots or "circles" as Ty referred to them as because an infrared camera picks up heat signatures and not optical light -- this is all 100% in line with the video Amzer (sorry, Herve) posted -- to a "T".

Now if you were zoomed into geese sized objects that were flying at 6000ft, with the stars as the background, as you tracked the objects they would appear to be moving at astronomical speeds - also exactly what we see in the video that Herve posted.


How does the video you posted convince me that the one Herve posted are not geese? In the video you posted, there is no "V" formation, there is no goose like flying patterns, there is no infrared camera detecting heat signatures of otherwise invisible objects. How was this comparison remotely valid?

The objects in your video look rather unexplainable to me - it's not that I don't believe in strange flying craft - I have had my own experiences with such craft for your information.

I still haven't seen anything that proves these aren't migrating geese, but feel free to give something relevant that might actually help put that theory to bed. I want someone to find that info because if we can prove they aren't geese, then that is plain cool, and for other people who are equally discerning as me and non-believers might have something to really chew on.

It's not me who needs convincing of the existence of unknown flying craft, but for those who do and are discerning, this won't cut it. Your "moon geese" video seems more appropriate for that (EDIT: I take that back in light of Amzer's post above ;)), but again, I was only talking about Amzer's OP as that is what this thread topic is about. The topic isn't "DeDukshyn is a non-believer! - let's get him!" lol :P

[DeDukshyn]

I was out on my lunch looking for honkers to try to see if any ever got behind their leader for a bit ... none today.

But truly there must someone with some IR goggles or a camera, in an area where one can spot geese migrating at night? (actually now that typed that, it sounds like a bit of project ...)

[avid]

Let's ask Gary McKinnon..?!!! Off-world fleet playing Goosey-goosey 'gander'? (Sorry - couldn't resist...!)

[observer]

O.K. to the doubters. Does this look real to you? Ever hear of geese departing from the Moon?

[...]

From the comment section of that video:


https://ssl.gstatic.com/s2/oz/images/cleardot.gifhttps://gp4.googleusercontent.com/-Sv0r2jD8XAM/AAAAAAAAAAI/AAAAAAAAAQ0/5AS5PnfPizc/s48-c-k-no/photo.jpg (http://www.youtube.com/profile_redirector/115379894939318291128)A D (http://www.youtube.com/profile_redirector/115379894939318291128) 1 month ago (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CtyFQRkhW9g&google_comment_id=z13aipeiezqfs3zce22hude4wxmdx5tps04)

Moon bats. He really wants you to view it in 1080p lol. Well by all means do; you'll see that the "UFOs" in that video do not suffer from the chromatic aberration clearly visible all around the moon as a blue fringe. Nor do they go out of focus as the approach the edge of the field of view, even though the moon does due to field curvature in the lens. That's because they were composited in afterwards, they're not real. I hate hoaxers. With a passion.
so... ... :focus:

The point of my comment was to show how the debunkers craw out of the woodwork every time something that could be interpreted as real appears.

Just as with the video in the OP, the debunking commenters on the YouTube page flooded the comment section with their naysaying. Each debunking comment is nothing more than someone's opinion. Who knows if Mr. AD in that comment section of the Moon Video is correct? Does anyone know what he is talking about? Is his comment anything more than his personal opinion?

I didn't make any reference to any specific individual in my comment #18 (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?77650-Looks-real-to-me--&p=908756&viewfull=1#post908756), but it appears as though some of the members in this thread certainly did take it personal. I guess, if the shoe fits....

Just sayin'....

*ADD:

Just as a footnote to what I said (above) I went to the "original video" that is indicated in the Moon Video Clip referenced in comment #18 (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?77650-Looks-real-to-me--&p=908756&viewfull=1#post908756).

The expanded description from that "original video" link states:


"If you think it's fake, search around for UFO on moon. You'll find a lot of more video similar like this one.

As you can see 13 orbs starting from a secret moonbase and fly away.
These ones are very bright lights, looks like a star or something like that.

Filmed September 2012 with Canon EOS 600D and Skymaster 1200mm focal length telescope + Adapter."

I suggest any member who doubts what is shown in the Moon Video should do as the poster suggests.

Then come back and debunk this....

I'll leave your thread alone now, Amzer.

[Camilo]

To blury, to shaky to be able to indentify what is that.

[DeDukshyn]

The point of my comment was to show how the debunkers craw out of the woodwork every time something that could be interpreted as real appears.
I didn't make any reference to any specific individual ...

So who are these debunkers who crawed out of the woodwork that made your post relevant in this thread? So far I've been the only debunker here, with Herve adding additional geese facts to help get to the answer to my speculation WITHOUT BIAS might I add ... If we don't due our due diligence and attempt to debunk everything, then explain how are we better than the sheeple we mock who also believe the first thing they are told / see without attempting to debunk it? I like to think Avalonians are a little more discerning than the average folk who bought the fluoride cool-aid and would appreciate discernment in getting to a definitive answer about something as one specific video, as opposed to believing someone else's youtube video right off the bat and ignoring all opposing evidence.

Since when does believing in ET/blackops craft or that there are organizations that spray weird stuff in the sky mean I have to believe every single YouTube video on those subjects?


Believing that something is true as strongly as one can doesn't make something true. If what we see in Amzer's video can be quite reasonably concluded or perhaps with good evidence or even proof as being geese, convincing everyone they are alien craft or something certainly would be a step backwards for the community.

I am not even 100% convinced they are geese either, hence my repeated calls for us to try to debunk the geese theory ... it's just to me, with all the actually verifiable info I have presented as evidence, it looks more like geese to me than alien space craft, and we should at least consider it.

Anyway's, I'll probably be back at some point to see if there are updates. I presented my case and I'm out. Sorry to have "ruffled goose feathers" :P :P :P

:focus:

[Hervé]

What needs to be understood here, is that I am looking for videos showing the real deal.

A previous attempt at this (see this thread: A real one (UFO)? Finally? (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?69800-A-real-one--UFO--Finally)) fail the test in the same way as the "Moon video":


the "UFOs" in that video do not suffer from the chromatic aberration clearly visible all around the moon as a blue fringe. Nor do they go out of focus as the approach the edge of the field of view, even though the moon does due to field curvature in the lens. That's because they were composited in afterwards, they're not real. I hate hoaxers. With a passion. Hence my invitation for mundane explanations if any.

There is a doubt that these hot spots flying in formation could be a flock of birds like geese or ducks since the only thing distinguishing them from geese is an obstinate leader way too far ahead of the V-formation behind it. If it were geese the followers would reshape the V-formation by each wing of said leader; not reconstitute a new V behind it.

There aren't that many videos out there that are genuine because most are cashing in on a real phenomenon that's easier to fake than to catch "live."

And, please, because I and others aren't interested in spending our time in "debunking," don't submit your certified 100% genuine videos of the real thing on this thread... start another thread!

[A Voice from the Mountains]

Have these videos ever come up here?:

x6JWJEsy81Q

-nAHfDZGzGw


I don't care so much for the "galactic federation" title but anyway there's several videos from Mexico like this. Closest "mundane" thing they bring to my mind would be a sky full of hot-air balloons, but I lived in an area where hot air balloon events took place, and they were always announced/well-publicized, didn't go that high, and of course I've never seen that many at once either. I don't speak Spanish but I suspect the dialogue in the first video would support the idea that these people are perplexed.

[DeDukshyn]

Have these videos ever come up here?:

x6JWJEsy81Q

-nAHfDZGzGw


I don't care so much for the "galactic federation" title but anyway there's several videos from Mexico like this. Closest "mundane" thing they bring to my mind would be a sky full of hot-air balloons, but I lived in an area where hot air balloon events took place, and they were always announced/well-publicized, didn't go that high, and of course I've never seen that many at once either. I don't speak Spanish but I suspect the dialogue in the first video would support the idea that these people are perplexed.

Balloons. Released from a wedding party or something like that - almost always balloons for these types of videos; perhaps floating Asian lanterns for the night version. Also, Please read Herve's post above.

A tip I learned from Paul is to use the Youtube URL in the Avalon search to check for past postings of videos.

[A Voice from the Mountains]

Thanks for the tip, DD. :typing:

[Camilo]

Have these videos ever come up here?:

[...]

More often that anybody would like to admit.

[noprophet]

infrared goose:
http://www.asknature.org/images/uploads/strategy/5797a30d2419a61e81b0ae7e6d0e299f/goose.jpg

(not exactly exothermic animals :P)

[Hervé]

infrared goose:


http://www.asknature.org/images/uploads/strategy/5797a30d2419a61e81b0ae7e6d0e299f/goose.jpg



(not exactly exothermic animals :P)




Thanks noprophet!

So, geese, ducks and birds of a feather can be ruled out!


:dance:

[DeDukshyn]

infrared goose:
http://www.asknature.org/images/uploads/strategy/5797a30d2419a61e81b0ae7e6d0e299f/goose.jpg

(not exactly exothermic animals :P)

Excellent find noprophet.

However, that looks nothing like the "infrared" in the original video. Do we know why this major discrepancy in what we are calling "infrared"?

And why can we see stars in the OP video? Can an infrared camera, such as the one used to show the goose pic, pick up heat from stars that are trillions of miles away? I've never actually used a true infrared camera before - so I have no idea really but if I took the camera that took noprophet's goose pic and clicked the stars would it show up like the stars in the OP?

Perhaps the camera in the OP actually isn't infrared or is not infrared only?

Damn, for me I just want to drill down deeper into the questions now ... ;)

[Hervé]

[...]

I say geese are still on the table given these inconsistencies.

[...]

Well, then there's only one solution left... have any hunter friends using night vision goggles? If so, could you ask them to video flying geese through them?

[DeDukshyn]

[...]

I say geese are still on the table given these inconsistencies.

[...]

Well, then there's only one solution left... have any hunter friends using night vision goggles? If so, could you ask them to video flying geese through them?

That's what I am leaning to - something more like night vision. And ironically, while you were very swiftly responding to my post, I edited that line out, lol. But got across more what I was trying to say. ;)

[DeDukshyn]

Found this, too bad its not HD but it shows geese / ducks in a "V" through night vision ... looks almost identical to the OP including background stars -- minus the very strong zoom lens effect....

RuziCW-ZwDY

I'm even more convinced of geese now! ;)

[Hervé]

Infrared cam, volcanic eruption Eyjafjallajökull, 2010, check the moon upper left:


https://fwtinw.dm2302.livefilestore.com/y2p8t4eT4GQ5WR2rzmP0lfwvpYT60KTjbBhAZztSb_Zrzfspd9YGjsUsNEmHjzcqHqn6xGIlsEqoOdhjCk7Ktf5UX6JgTuZCqBKV BJxl2HKy2vPtnRZEGARCoBWljxIqT5X/Iceland-cam4-0286.jpg?psid=1

[DeDukshyn]

Infrared cam, volcanic eruption Eyjafjallajökull, 2010, check the moon upper left:


https://fwtinw.dm2302.livefilestore.com/y2p8t4eT4GQ5WR2rzmP0lfwvpYT60KTjbBhAZztSb_Zrzfspd9YGjsUsNEmHjzcqHqn6xGIlsEqoOdhjCk7Ktf5UX6JgTuZCqBKV BJxl2HKy2vPtnRZEGARCoBWljxIqT5X/Iceland-cam4-0286.jpg?psid=1


Not sure if the moon cuts it - it is pretty close compared to stars, I think its rather obvious now that the op video is not true infrared, but at best a simplified "version" -- What do you think of my post above -- night vision geese?

[Hervé]

Yep... convincing video for geese... sigh... another inconclusive OP video although very entertaining :( ... and geese are know to contribute their antics to air shows too!

Oh well, I'll put the keys in the flower pot for anyone willing to pursue the matter further...

[DeDukshyn]

Yep... convincing video for geese... sigh... another inconclusive OP video although very entertaining :( ... and geese are know to contribute their antics to air shows too!

Oh well, I'll put the keys in the flower pot for anyone willing to pursue the matter further...

Hey don't feel bad. ;) Let's see what the next video brings! Process is goal.

[DeDukshyn]

Just to rub it in ;) (in jest), I just showed my 16 yr old son the OP video and asked him what he thought (without any further explanation) and 30 seconds in he said "Why are we watching geese?"

Again no offense intended, but I'm thinking of some of the younger ones these days and their keenness and ability to see "when something looks like 'x', it may actually be something else". This discernment will be required in our next generation to get ourselves a step ahead of the "rulers" or whatever else we see as opposition. My hope is that a psychological shift will occur in the masses so we can all actually see the "opposition" without obfuscation.

Gen Z'ers! -- I think not much will get past them, let's intent for that! ... ;)

[Atlas]

Why would UFOs fly in a V formation ? The only reason I can think of is to make us think that they are birds...

Birds Flying Overhead Through Night Vision:

pFJFwBPg-UY
In a V formation:

TJPRmSu6WI8

[Hervé]

Well, as I wrote earlier, this one remains inconclusive and not easily resolvable by commonly available means.

Accordingly I am closing this case.

Case closed

PS: Keys in the flower pot :)