BBC Question Time 11/12/2014 Russell Brand Nigel Farage

[ktlight]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q2RSKJC-ugk

"Published on 11 Dec 2014
Full episode. David Dimbleby presents topical debate from Canterbury in Kent. Among the panellists are Penny Mordaunt MP, Mary Creagh MP, Nigel Farage MEP, Russell Brand and Camilla Cavendish."

chunkymark aka the artist taxi driver's take on it.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4YpL1Gs6rYM

[ktlight]

I feel that, since the beginning of time, we are ALL immigrants. Even royalty is not strictly English, having originated from Germany.
I wonder why there are no figures produced regarding emigrants.

[Baby Steps]

I was disappointed to see Russell attacking Farage so strongly. It contrasts with exchanges I have heard Between Farage & Galloway which are friendly. The point is that there are insiders and outsiders on both sides of the illusory adversarial political spectrum. There are those who tow the line. These are mostly from the main three parties (and really greens too who do not threaten the agenda)
RB is a great figure on the outside and left. Farage is a great Figure on the outside and right. Farage terrifies the agents of the agenda as he does not serve it!
Examples: he has stated that all these foreign wars are wrong and done for the wrong reasons. He is anti EU. Now we must remember that the EU is a core part of the agenda. This is because it is a fundamentally undemocratic structure that is designed to serve the long term global fascist agenda. Many people on the right of the spectrum in UK sense this and hate the steady erosion of what little genuine local democracy we have in the UK. Many people on the right in the UK think that we have too many people coming in to the country. This is not to be confused with racism. Many working class people in UK have seen their wages halved due to EU migrant labour. These people are not necessarily racist, and have legitimate concerns. Shouting at them that they are racist for raising this issue will not stop them from voting for Farage.The political mainstream in the UK has had a tacit agreement to under invest in our immigration controls,and there is a lack of control compared to many other countries.The reason for this is that politicians struggling with a huge deficit use mass immigration to promote economic growth. But they do not admit this.
Please note I am not expressing personal support for Farage, rather I am lamenting the fact that RB is not focussing on the real enemy.
He will get there-what he is doing is very brave and noble, as we all know how hard it is to be that lone voice.
As far as the left in UK goes, they tow the line of the agenda just like the US Democrats. One exception-Milliband managed to stop us from illegally attacking Syria-bless him! But trust me UK Labour will destroy our collectivised Health system only slightly slower that the right would.
We need a bottom up left party that fights the agenda.The beginnings of this exist. It is out there for those who look!
God bless.

[Buzzie]

How did Russell Brand, a former drug addict and sex addict, (admitted) suddenly vault into prominence on the UK political scene? Why?

[Baby Steps]

How did Russell Brand, a former drug addict and sex addict, (admitted) suddenly vault into prominence on the UK political scene? Why?

He's the first prominent voice to suggest that the whole system is broken and corrupt throughout. People yearn for an intellectual understanding of what their Soul/feelings are saying. There are very few who say that our 'Democratic' institutions are controlled by corporate interests.
Anybody who stands up and speaks their truth commands power.The working class here do not feel represented, as their 'Labour' party is more like Corporate National Socialist. He is clearly a very intelligent man. Those on the left such as Tony Benn who would speak these truths are rarely heard from.
Good on him.
Before this he was known as a great stand up who travelled the country with a following of goons who were a kind of mobile orgy shop.

[ThePythonicCow]

How did Russell Brand, a former drug addict and sex addict, (admitted) suddenly vault into prominence on the UK political scene? Why?

The split being presented to us (humans) is the mean, evil, Nazi, neocon Anglo-American bastards, versus the strong and honest BRICS leaders, such as Putin.

So as part of that split, various "alternative" spokes people, who are able to appeal to particular audiences, are getting the charter to present that "nasty bastards" view to the American populace.

[Sunny-side-up]

We just need a totally new kind of system, NOT a NWO but a new system with the whole world at it's heart!
Are we going to get that! Well only if a great percentage of the worlds populous was taken away leaving only Avalon/Free-energy/Soul/moral/life-loving and the like minded people to start a fresh!
Most of the world is still so out of date with the here-and-now (Asleep-Slaves to the old PTW way), with how the here-and-now could be and needs to be!

[kersley]

I'm originally from Mauritius and came here to the UK in 1974. I studied and worked here since. I pay my taxes contributed like any other.
I have my own building company business since 1994. back then I had 30+ plumbers, electrician, plasterers, carpenters and other tradesmen working for me.
My son now runs the business and now employs 2 workers.Gods knows he tries, but simply can't compete with the migrants from the EU..
every job we price we get undercut by 40 -50%.. Do you think I'm been racist?

[indigopete]

I'm originally from Mauritius and came here to the UK in 1974. I studied and worked here since. I pay my taxes contributed like any other.
I have my own building company business since 1994. back then I had 30+ plumbers, electrician, plasterers, carpenters and other tradesmen working for me.
My son now runs the business and now employs 2 workers.Gods knows he tries, but simply can't compete with the migrants from the EU..
every job we price we get undercut by 40 -50%.. Do you think I'm been racist?

What a great remark. In one short paragraph it expresses so much of the complexity of this issue.

I undertake much of the sentiment of what chunkymark is saying, but he's a bit stuck in the old 80's socialism paradigm where everything was seen through the lens of state vs private sector interests. In fact we've moved on since then to discover that state interests ARE private interests.

The attempt to paint the EU migration agenda as a racial tolerance issue only works with the most undeveloped of understandings of what social harmony is about.

For a start, a natural level of voluntary migration is one thing. It is healthy for any society because provides a sustained infusion of lateral development that feeds the regeneration of cultural, commercial and industrial life.

On the other hand, massive, unnatural levels of forced migration along stark economic pressure gradients created by highly centralised policy agendas, central banks and corporations is completely unhealthy for any society. It results in an adverse domestic environment, disintegrated communities and in many cases mass unemployment (when the conditions that attracted new populations in the first place cease to prevail).

In the 70's and 80's I grew up with the idea that "we were all equal". I had mainly left wing opinions and came from a left wing family. Since then, I now speak 3 languages fluently, have lived and worked in 3 countries and have come to the firm conclusion that we most definitely are not "equal". It's not equality or unity that the human race should be pursuing - it's harmony, a very different and little understood concept.

By definition, equality and unity require conformity. Conformity of opinion, conformity of politics, conformity of culture.

Harmony on the other hand requires diversity. For example, you cannot express a harmony in a choir without the choir members singing different notes. You cannot express harmony in a painting without using a variety of colours.

The problem with harmony, however, is that achieving it involves a difficult intermediate step called "disharmony". So the natural evolutionary steps move from "Unity" --> "Disharmony" --> "Harmony".

In societies, harmony is achieved through assertion. Disparate cultures, points of view and economic interests have to assert themselves to be heard. If they assert themselves strongly enough they will be heard. If they don't assert themselves they won't be heard. That's why the immigration debate currently going on is so important because things will be lost if cultures don't assert themselves and stand up for what they hold important. We need to make a distinction between healthy immigration and disruptive immigration and trust peoples natural instincts about it rather than those of central banks, who’s natural instincts are to sacrifice entire generations of well educated students if it means they can hit their 2% inflation targets.

Harmony is something everyone understands implicitly because they live it every day whether they're racist or not. It allows them the freedom to exist in a huge space while not conflicting on the space of others.

To steal a great observation from this same thread made by HugoJudd:

"People yearn for an intellectual understanding of what their Soul/feelings are saying".

That is one of the most useful things I've ever heard anyone say because it gives reason to the painful pursuit of understanding by verbalisation. It also vindicates those who spend their time attempting to articulate our innate sentiments so that we can observe ourselves independently of our own prejudices.

I truly believe we are heading for major change in the human race within our lifetimes. People's world views are going to be turned upside down (and already are). The immigration debate is part of that agenda and is currently in the "disharmony" phase. What that means is that despite Russell Brand making lots of popular pronouncements, he's unlikely to have the last word on it.

[Xanth]

I'm all for harmony and blance. If 300k immigrate to the UK for the EU then it would be good if around 300k when the other way - to retain the balance. Or if there's a specific soceital need that the majority are in agreement with, then no problem. The trouble is that TPTB have used immigration to push foward a number of hidden/unspoken agendas, as a form of social and economic engineering. In my opinion the agendas don't serve the existing population and were never intended to ... hence the general disquiet and raising popularity of the likes of Farage.

I quite like Farage and Brand, because as pointed out above, both challenge the system from different perspectives, and its really important that people recognise that the system must be challenged and change if we are to have a brighter future.

[Sabrina]

Have only watched part of it, but found it interesting when a member of the audience quite rightly asked Brand why he spent so much time attacking Farage - and why didnt Brand stand for Parliament himself. Brand blustered that he didnt want to become one of them. The member of the audience said that was a pretty pathetic answer as Brand had done all sorts of things such as overcome addictions etc. and had the capability to do this. Am hoping Brand isnt just more controlled opposition. Dont think Farage is the main target he should be attacking if he really is for change.

[wishinshow]

Wow. I find this post to be surprising in the extreme, Paul. Here you offer strong support for a proposal of mine. A proposal which I understood was one of the main reasons for the suspension of my account from this forum.

I don't share the belief that Putin is controlled opposition (I hope I do not put words in your mouth here and if I do please use your moderator priveledge to delete my words) but I am also open to the possibility that he is.

I am really very surprised. Thank you for this offering. And now I'm even MORE clueless as to why I was suspended from this forum. Nobody has ever explained that.



How did Russell Brand, a former drug addict and sex addict, (admitted) suddenly vault into prominence on the UK political scene? Why?

The split being presented to us (humans) is the mean, evil, Nazi, neocon Anglo-American bastards, versus the strong and honest BRICS leaders, such as Putin.

So as part of that split, various "alternative" spokes people, who are able to appeal to particular audiences, are getting the charter to present that "nasty bastards" view to the American populace.

[ThePythonicCow]

And now I'm even MORE clueless as to why I was suspended from this forum. Nobody has ever explained that.
Several of us have been trying to explain just today - on this thread (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?78050-Fear-of-Closeness).

Of course, it had nothing to do with what position you took on who's who in this drama of human civilization.

We also stated our concern when you were previously sent on "vacation", and we assigned a special monitor to you, when you returned, to better assist you in understanding.

It is difficult to explain something to those who will not listen.