The CIA, the report and the methods

[bogeyman]

There have been many threads written on various forums about this report from the Senate, some say it is politically motivated since it was written by the Democratics in there last few weeks in power. What ever methods the CIA used it cannot be any worse than what the terrorist have done to those that oppose their ideology or religious belief's, and what they would do to those in the west if they were able to.

People can go on about human rights, but to protect those rights some times measures have to be taken to protect those rights of the many (some consider that their rights have been diminished by laws and control of those in power or those that wish to expand theirs.)by using methods which would considered by some a violation of those basic rights.

It is easy to criticise when you have the freedom to do so or not under the persecution of those so call terrorist at first hand value. In any war be it recent or past sometimes things have to be done which are very unpleasant to protect your own troops, and those that support them, including your country of origin.

But I will say I can understand those that are outraged by the methods used by the Agency especially those that are on a mission to defend human rights throughout their own countries or throughout the world. Just take emotion out of the equation and just imagine what it would be like for you if you were in their hands.

The link below have a link in it in which you can down load the report. The report itself is 525 pages long.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-30444679

[rgray222]

There are many questions circulating around this report. The one that screams the loudest to be asked is - why now! The report is from 2004, it is 10 years old. The White House has had the report for four plus years and they deliberately decided to release now. The report did not have to be released at all. It was originally meant to be an internal report. It has already removed two major stories from the news cycle and will remain the top story for another week.

This is a hyper-partisan report that the democrats put together, the odd thing is that the democrats approved these methods of interrogation and now they are acting like they had nothing to do with it. This is pretty standard political deception another festival of hypocrisy but there is something else going on here.

[Tesseract]

You have got to be kidding me, a CIA apologist piece on project Avalon? I've seen it all now. Do you know that many of these terrorists are brought up with CIA support? Are you not aware that the most vile Islamists in Libya and Syria have been backed by the CIA? This began before the term IS even existed. Do I even need to talk about the CIA's previous alliance with Osama Bin Laden? Isn't it absurd that the CIA can support and nurture some of these groups, then torture individuals under the rubric of them being associated with one of those very groups? They ought to be torturing themselves.

You also must acknowledge that some of the people that were imprisoned and tortured in Guantanamo Bay are innocent of any crime and were not even members of Al Qaeda, which is just one of the reasons why the CIA's activities in this regard are so appalling.

It is impossible to overstate the insidious malevolence of the CIA, and frankly it is bizarre to associate the CIA with the protection of human rights, as you have done in your OP. It sounds like you have swallowed the official 'war on terror' narrative.

All nations need to evict the CIA from their land, for they are the poison that destroys countries, they are the enemies of peace, and the enemies of justice.

[bogeyman]

You have got to be kidding me, a CIA apologist piece on project Avalon? I've seen it all now. Do you know that many of these terrorists are brought up with CIA support? Are you not aware that the most vile Islamists in Libya and Syria have been backed by the CIA? This began before the term IS even existed. Do I even need to talk about the CIA's previous alliance with Osama Bin Laden? Isn't it absurd that the CIA can support and nurture some of these groups, then torture individuals under the rubric of them being associated with one of those very groups? They ought to be torturing themselves.

You also must acknowledge that some of the people that were imprisoned and tortured in Guantanamo Bay are innocent of any crime and were not even members of Al Qaeda, which is just one of the reasons why the CIA's activities in this regard are so appalling.


It is impossible to overstate the insidious malevolence of the CIA, and frankly it is bizarre to associate the CIA with the protection of human rights, as you have done in your OP. It sounds like you have swallowed the official 'war on terror' narrative.

All nations need to evict the CIA from their land, for they are the poison that destroys countries, they are the enemies of peace, and the enemies of justice.

Any reaction to the report by people is basis upon the information they have at hand, not many can think beyond their own limited lives and parameters. What the public knows about the CIA's activities is very limited, no one man can know everything that the agency is up to, thus draw an accurate conclusion as to its activities it produces billions of pages of documentation every year how can one man know all this and judge accordingly. Take the personal out of the equation. Justice what is that, what is justice to one isn't to another, some is based upon emotional reaction, personal experiences and judgements....the CIA is frankly there because of the way the world is, and every single intelligence agency in the world has done things that's violate so called human rights, some are just more powerful than others does not mean that would not do the same as the CIA has done. Peace man has never known peace he has almost constantly been at war in the short time he has been here, it is something many do not know what it is. Every country is under attack either physically, psychologically, and surreptitiously, it has been a game played for centuries, it seems man like top find a single and easy excuse for all the problems of the world rather than looking for the truth....it is man that is the problem......

[NancyV]

What amazes me is the outrage people seem to feel about the torture that was engaged in by the CIA. If they didn't know the US has used very harsh methods of interrogation in certain circumstances for probably as long as it's been the USA, then they must be ignorant of history. I don't think anyone is saying we love the CIA and it's methods, but to be shocked that they use methods, which are most likely far less painful and cause fewer deaths than those used by almost any other country, is ignorant. The torture methods used by the countries of the mostly Muslim detainees the CIA tortured..... are much more brutal and usually end in death. Muslim countries who continue to use sharia law could be said to torture many of their women by mutilating them, forcing them to wear certain clothes, not giving them equal protection or stature under their sharia laws, beating and stoning or killing them with impunity.

Those who love to attack only the US, and in this case the CIA, seem to think that makes the terrorist countries the good guys and the US the bad guys. That is a very naive conclusion to come to. If you are not aware of the history of torture used by almost all countries, then deciding to criticize only the US for it's torture methods smacks of political bias, denial, or extreme ignorance.

I don't like the CIA....never have. They tried to kill my husband several times and betrayed him twice when he was on missions for them, on loan as a counter-terrorist on a couple of top secret missions. They informed those he was sent to "deal" with that he was there with his team. Obviously he prevailed since he is still alive and kicking and will have his 60th birthday tomorrow. He detests the CIA, needless to say.

It was also quite obvious that releasing this information at this time, information that was already known for many years, was a political ploy on the part of democrats. Even the white house didn't want this info released. A few republicans were supportive of it's release, but very few. The CIA torture program easily brings a comparison of Obama's drone program into the discussion, which could be one reason Obama supposedly didn't want it released. Relatively speaking, the drone program has killed approximately 2400 people in the 5 years since instituted by Obama, many of them innocent women and children.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/01/23/obama-drone-program-anniversary_n_4654825.html

We don't know exactly how many of the tortured captives died, although it is stated as less than 10 most often. Of course we can't believe what they tell us as far as how many died, but I doubt it was anywhere close to the 2400 Obama is directly responsible for killing with drones. So if you're going to be outraged by the torture of possible terrorists, who almost all lived, how about being outraged by Obama's drone strikes killing women and children?

My point is, it's all relative. Those of you who seem the most outraged are possibly spending more of your righteous anger on small stuff compared to some really BIG stuff that also exists. As far as looking forward to these practices being stopped by the US or any other country, I doubt that will happen. It may just have to become more covert. I'm pretty sure that the US will most likely never give up on torturing certain prisoners, in fact it may increase in the future since it seems that violence is evolving and morality and ethics are devolving at this point in history.

[ghostrider]

this business of torture hurts me in my core , how is the CIA any different than terrorist ??? both sides murder over the way people think about an idea = religion ... torture will only fuel an already blazing fire of revenge that has been brewing for 2,000 years ... if it's a Christian nation killing in the name of freedom it's accepted while Islam calls it evil , if it's a Muslim nation killing in the name of Allah it's accepted and Christians call it evil , depending on which side of the fence you stand , both think their stance is good and their opposition is evil ... both claim to be spiritual , following their god's commandments ... Our leaders should never engage in the torture of human beings , never , that's one of the big reason's they overthrow other regimes , they do the very thing they invade and bomb and destroy others for doing ... hypocrisy full throttle ... I hope those involved go to prison ... I mean does the CIA think they will gain friends from Islamic states by the torture of prisoners ??? No wonder Islam hates America , our leaders side with the sworn enemies of Islam , torture their followers , and freakout when Islamic radicals behead Americans .... hey quit the torture of their brothers and show them what spiritual people do , take the high ground , all life is sacred , do unto others as you would have them do unto you , for you reap what you sow ... Hell fire the whole planet is under the eye of the NSA and every phone call monitored , they don't need to beat Islamic radicals for sketchy information at best ...

[Openmindedskeptic]

The Charmed Life of a CIA Torturer: How Fate Diverged for Matthew Zirbel, aka CIA Officer 1, and Gul Rahman

https://firstlook.org/theintercept/2014/12/15/charmed-life-cia-torturer/


Matthew Zirbel’s home in Great Falls, Virginia is filled with oriental

carpets, perhaps collected from his time spent working in countries like

Afghanistan and Saudi Arabia. The million dollar home has “LOTS of “WOW!” You

will “Oooh & Ahhh”, says this recent description on Zillow.


This isn’t the first time Zirbel’s surroundings have wowed someone. Over a

decade ago, Zirbel, then a junior CIA officer, was in charge of the Salt Pit, a

“black site” in Afghanistan referred to in the recent Senate torture report as

“Cobalt,” where detainees were routinely brutalized and which one visitor

described as a “dungeon.” A delegation from the Federal Bureau of Prisons was

“WOW’ed” by the Salt Pit’s sensory deprivation techniques, and a CIA

interrogator said that prisoners there “literally looked like [dogs] that had

been kenneled,” according to the report.

[birddog]

There are a few targeted individuals on this forum who know about torture, first hand, as are victims. For some, it is very bad at times, for others, tolerable. For all, deadly, for the end result is death. The CIA and the NSA have been doing this for a number of years...over 50. It is never the same, as weapons change, but I believe the story is the same. With bombs, it was 'What is the effect of the radiation", and bombs were exploded near enough to people, our people, to see the effects, and watch the follow up. Now, we have electromagnetic and microwave weapons to deal with.

They agencies need to know, "What are the effects of our weapons, and how long does it take to kill someone with this particular weapon.? Only one way to find out...targeted individuals. They pick someone to test, and target them periodically until they die, or they are cloned. That is the gist of it. The TIs have done no wrong, broken no laws, but suddenly, they are "IT", and their life has changed forever.