The Constant Seeker

[Grizz Griswold]

Hi everyone,

Without seeking can there be Awakening? Maybe not.

But constant seeking, it would appear, can be a problem.

In my own experience, many jewels had been found but
overlooked. Due to constantly seeking for that new, better,
shiny thing.

Even when we've found something of great value, spiritually.
The ego takes seeking as it's own function and says naaaa
that's not it, keep on seeking for something better, as if trying
to negotiate for a better bargain, a better deal. Always putting
Awakening off to the future, better luck next time.

When is enough, enough?

How many opportunities have we had to gladden ourselves?

Should we just stop and smell the roses?

One can Awaken from contemplating a single grain of sand,
a single musical note....everything contains the whole.

Can a single word be to much?

"when you are deluded and full of doubt even a thousand books are not enough.when you have realized understanding even one word is too much." - Fen Yang

Much Love
barry

[Guish]

Hi everyone,

Without seeking can there be Awakening? Maybe not.

But constant seeking, it would appear, can be a problem.

In my own experience, many jewels had been found but
overlooked. Due to constantly seeking for that new, better,
shiny thing.

Even when we've found something of great value, spiritually.
The ego takes seeking as it's own function and says naaaa
that's not it, keep on seeking for something better, as if trying
to negotiate for a better bargain, a better deal. Always putting
Awakening off to the future, better luck next time.

When is enough, enough?

How many opportunities have we had to gladden ourselves?

Should we just stop and smell the roses?

One can Awaken from contemplating a single grain of sand,
a single musical note....everything contains the whole.

Can a single word be to much?

"when you are deluded and full of doubt even a thousand books are not enough.when you have realized understanding even one word is too much." - Fen Yang

Much Love
barry


You sum it up nicely brother. Get lost in the vast emptiness. There's nothing more to gain, nothing to lose. Once you've transcended duality, there are no longer questions to be answered as you no longer ask any question. What's happening to me is that I constantly meditate without feeling anything now. There's a small voice that tries to make me think about it but I just smile realising it's a tiny attempt by the ego again.

[Zampano]

Hmm, dear Barry-it seems we reached the point where no book reading nor contemplation will get us any further.
We tried meditation, times of silence, incorporating It (which has no name), thinking about It. Maybe did some workshops or seminars.
When I say we, I do not mean me and you, but everybody who is interested and wants to follow the spiritual path, to the point when everything is
done and said.

Hm, whats left?
Take away radically what is human in you and see whats left.
Thoughts, Senses, Concepts, Emotions, Feelings-it helped me a lot to go away from this constructs.

It is about god realization and at the end you stand there alone. Enough is enough when you stand there and have no answers.
Can a human mind grasp god realization?
No, so what is left-experiencing it.
Knowing that I am is not the doer.
There is no I Am. There is only existence.
Is there an exercise to Being or Existing?

I am just thinking out loud here, friends!

[Guish]

Hmm, dear Barry-it seems we reached the point where no book reading nor contemplation will get us any further.
We tried meditation, times of silence, incorporating It (which has no name), thinking about It. Maybe did some workshops or seminars.
When I say we, I do not mean me and you, but everybody who is interested and wants to follow the spiritual path, to the point when everything is
done and said.

Hm, whats left?
Take away radically what is human in you and see whats left.
Thoughts, Senses, Concepts, Emotions, Feelings-it helped me a lot to go away from this constructs.

It is about god realization and at the end you stand there alone. Enough is enough when you stand there and have no answers.
Can a human mind grasp god realization?
No, so what is left-experiencing it.
Knowing that I am is not the doer.
There is no I Am. There is only existence.
Is there an exercise to Being or Existing?

I am just thinking out loud here, friends!


Spot on. One gets detached to the idea that one needs to get detached. It's quite some experience. Without the ego, there's nothing left. Identity, feelings, desires, pride and "love" all gone. Yet, one experiences vastness and freedom.

[gardener2]

and most of all LOVE.

[Delight]

I think there is a false dichotomy presented sometimes to the activity of seeking/finding and its revelations of "what is in this moment". IMO as long as we "live", there is no completion to the activity. We are having an experience where we continually move from seeking to finding to expression. Then the expression yields greater variety of seeking, more finding and refined expression.

IMO the dance back and forth in us between the view from of the one and the many must have application in our mundane life. We have a body here and we have a soul here and both together work to create a "life". There is an ego that acts in a world and a soul that communes with what seems like "not of the world". The bridge is active participation's both/and.

So IMO the seeker who is in "life" is seeking what will bridge the finite appearance and the infinite ONGOING.

To have a life, we just live. Living and seeking the means to experiencing "more useful" life is just part of experience. Builders build based on the latest sought "innovation". Learners seek greater and larger contexts. "Caring" succors based on the uncovering of more skillful ways to nurture. This cannot IMO be something that is static therefore "seeking" is just part of experience of life. Finding something is not "all there is".

It is not that one ever swallows the whole in one swallow and "gets it" but that one takes bites of the whole one encounters to chew, swallow and digest the pieces. That is IMO the seeking paradox...there is a whole but one cannot "use" it except as parts.

Teachers seek students. Eckert Tolle "gets enlightened" and then seeks an audience. Artists have a vision and learn to reveal it in form. Audiences seek a "performance" and that makes the seeking a perfect match for expressing. Expression is based on finding but cannot be divorced from seeking what will be expressed even more eloquently.

This is what I think at this time hehe.

[Kryztian]

I had a college professor who would listen to students complain how painful it was to write papers for him. He would reply: "They you have to become a masochist!"

In the same way, I think we have to learn to love our mysterious world that keeps plummeting us into continual states of confusion. It tantalizes us with easy answers to the big questions, only to slap us on the behind saying "you're wrong, you're not even close - the universe is infinitely more complex than you think, you dim wit!"

I guess we just have to learn to keep seeking and find a way to enjoy our confusion and frustration.

[Grizz Griswold]

Constant seeking is a device the ego uses to keep you out of the present.
Everything becomes something to be found in the future and as the body, the I.



You sum it up nicely brother. Get lost in the vast emptiness. There's nothing more to gain, nothing to lose. Once you've transcended duality, there are no longer questions to be answered as you no longer ask any question. What's happening to me is that I constantly meditate without feeling anything now. There's a small voice that tries to make me think about it but I just smile realising it's a tiny attempt by the ego again. ...Guish

Exactly Guish, that little small voice always speaks of what one can gain, by
constantly seeking. Always looking for that better deal, one that includes the
body, i, me and their betterment. That little small voice if listened to, will
always take one further from awakening....stirring the mind, engendering
questions and more complications....Thanks Guish


Hm, whats left?
Take away radically what is human in you and see whats left.
Thoughts, Senses, Concepts, Emotions, Feelings-it helped me a lot to go away from this constructs. ...Zampano

Richard Rose, used to ask his students. What do you know for sure?,
He was talking absolute, 100 percent.
The most common answer was...only that there is awareness.
Or Like you said: there is only existence...Thanks Zampano

and most of all LOVE....gardener2

Love is the eternal state, free of all the constructs of mind.
What passes for love here can easily turn to hate...thanks gardener2

To have a life, we just live. Living and seeking the means to experiencing "more useful" life is just part of experience. Builders build based on the latest sought "innovation". Learners seek greater and larger contexts. "Caring" succors based on the uncovering of more skillful ways to nurture. This cannot IMO be something that is static therefore "seeking" is just part of experience of life. Finding something is not "all there is"....Delight

Hi Delight,
The key word is (constant) seeker...constantly seeking, prevents us from
being in the eternal present. The ego uses seeking and past and future to
stay in time, with these devices/constructs there is no recognition of timelessness.
Finding something is not "all there is"

Ultimately, what is there but "all there is"?... thanks

In the same way, I think we have to learn to love our mysterious world that keeps plummeting us into continual states of confusion. It tantalizes us with easy answers to the big questions, only to slap us on the behind saying "you're wrong, you're not even close - the universe is infinitely more complex than you think, you dim wit!"

I guess we just have to learn to keep seeking and find a way to enjoy our confusion and frustration....Kryztian

In Love and gratitude the world becomes a more gentle place in which to live, all roads eventually lead to our True identity/All that is.
Complexity, confusion, frustration, constant seeking etc. seen as passing events,
which in no way affect, All that is!

With love
b

[Roseheart]

I have found that as I go, the less I know. The less I know, the more I feel. The world passes through me - all the joy and pain - exquisite in its many forms. I feel everything more. I can tap into the All That Is… The longer I'm alive, I can't help feeling that we are meant to feel it all… Love it all in all it's many facets and expressions… It's so beautiful to be here. Even the crap stuff is there for a reason and to be thanked for the teaching…

[Zampano]

I think one has to come finally to the conclusion (with the logical mind), that the human can never never ever understand God.
The mind is part of the human being, but we are not looking for human being-we are looking for god. So therefore it is not possible to understand it with the human mind.
How I see it today: Every human is hologram in a huge simulation we call the universe. We are the simulation and also the hologram-without a hologram there is no simulation,
therefore we need the human (or some kind of form).

Rumi (Sufism): How do we find awareness? Lets renounce wisdom. (wisdom=thought, word, mind)
Master Eckehart (Christian Mystics): Everything you can say about god, he/she is not.
Buddha (Buddhism ;-): The mind is the source of all confusion.
Adi Shankara (Hinduism-Advaita Vedanta): There is no ignorance outside the mind. The mind alone is ignorance.

Take the mind away which makes up the I-there is only AM left. Existence!
The human is still playing its part as hologram and has an ego and wisdom and mind, but at the end, we are the simulation.

[Fox]

Seeking for knowledge can become an issue, there's only so much we can hope to learn in one "life" in one "density." When you believe that seeking for knowledge is just being alive in the moment, you'll be at peace. I believe there is no limit on what can be known or experienced in "all that is." It's infinite expansion of awareness. The entire spectrum of universes and unimaginable dimensions can be your playground, to experience yourself and connectedness. In fact, it already is, but we cannot fathom how or why we're experiencing reality here and now because we are not of that vibration. The conclusion that I have drawn is that I've chosen to be here because it's a very interesting time from the perspective of higher minds and beings. I choose to view the world with wonder and curiosity. I follow my heart, go where I wish, and experience reality through my own chosen lens. By doing so, I find that understanding and growth come to me naturally because I attract it. I do not need to actively seek, because I'm already seeking just by being myself and being happy. I don't recognize myself from a few months ago and I know I'll look back on these words one day and find no relevance to my existence. Life is flux, life is change, but only because I currently like it this way as a whole spirit being.

[Roseheart]

I was a crazy seeker for years. It just became a mission. I basically had no choice. I turned away from the world completely and all I could do was yoga, meditation, this website and take care of my daughter. Before this I had been a sheep but a kooky sheep who knew it didn't fit.
My friends thought I'd gone insane. My whole life just fell apart on the 'sheep' level. My marriage fell apart, I lost most of my friends etc... same story for a lot of people here I know.
I devoted myself to truth and spirituality no matter where it led. It was ALL necessary I see now. I was led exactly where I needed to go for my particular brand of awakening. Every book, every painful understanding, every sun salute, every silent yearning for freedom had its place and the timing was always perfect.
I asked for it all. I offered myself up in surrender. I was just absolutely crazed.
The mystical came and the bliss... and then the fear and the pain... and the feeling that nothing had changed... I just kept going, surrendering... and then there was just a little 'click' is the only way I can describe it. It was just a moment in the middle of the night. Everything changed permanently. Everything stayed the same. Nothing and Everything. I remember thinking that I didn't know if I'd lost something or gained something but both seemed to be true. I know for sure I lost the low grade fear I'd been living with my whole life... That was good! As for the rest - I see (and feel) more shadows and pain now. It's sadder and more beautiful at the same time. It's funnier too. I get the whole there's no 'doer'. Things just get done. I can leave things not caring about when they'll get done because I know they will when the time is perfect. There's this trust... It's just all flowing automatically. It seems to me that it's all a divine dance. That's all I know now.
That's it. Lol. I used to be a know it all. Now I'm a dummy. Thanks for listening and thanks for the thread. x

[Fox]

Roseheart, you described my past couple years to a point. :)
Glad to see a kindred spirit.

EDIT: Glad to see so many kindred spirits.

[grannyfranny100]

Do something for others. We are not all meant to be some alternative shaman, writer or celebrity. Go read to a blind person, serve food in a soup kitchen.

[Delight]

Do something for others. We are not all meant to be some alternative shaman, writer or celebrity. Go read to a blind person, serve food in a soup kitchen.

I really understood what Roseheart said!
I have been a pilgrim seeing my own scenery and all us kindreds here have been walking together IMO.
IMO we each have such a unique path that the only commonality is "How are we feeling about what is happening in life?"...peace? love? trust? compassion? willingness? humor? RELAXATION?

I can relate to the post above. Participation and trust in the whole picture and knowing what is "right action" for us to do arises.

My personal choices that I support include to be a part of a group raising an organic garden for the food pantry near by, create a group with others where we teach what we know about small useful technologies: cultured vegies, bone broth, making kefir, making Himalayan salt lamps etc...all kinds of wonderful information to share and projects. I agree that for me, action in the world towards whatever supports my values is immensely satisfying. I seek to love and make things and have animals all around and see the world. It would be wonderful to be in partnership and have fun.

I flew out into warm embrace of bliss for a small stretch and everything made sense and it was a "near life experience" where I was without any any any doubt and fear. Then resumed being "Maggie" and seeking to experience that state in real time. This stretch gave me the sense that I could possibly trust life. It did not make me enlightened but suggested I was seeking to experience complete faith and relaxation in the Benevolence I met.

What was all around me was looking really trivial and misguided and yet I was still dealing with being in a body and having a character. My character became even less integrated with "society". To learn how to really deeply live was the point IMO.

The personal experience I know of being a seeker on earth:
It is excruciating for that part of me that desperately needs control to feel safe (call it ego) to keep up the facade because in life there is no "safety". Daily I may could choose either to learn to see this and more let go of control or crack up....

THE WORLD KEEPS SUGGESTING CONTROL IS POSSIBLE. It is like the vase where you see either faces or a vase. You know there is both but can only see one at a time in perception.

http://ndbf.net/003d.JPG

I know that no matter what, all is well. MY EGO LIKES THAT MANTRA.

Being a woman who was very attached to being smart, to realize that my intellect is a big fat liar sucked and is still a thorny issue. Yet, thinking is also so enjoyable at times. Not thinking is so enjoyable. All of Both/And again. I choose again flexible and relaxation and able to shift my perspective easily and with grace. I choose humor which helps unless I am triggered. I will love myself anyway.

What can be seen? I have seen that I create this itsy bitsy experience of reality. It is a small world made up of whatever is allowed to be in it and I seek to find that out.

This has become most interesting when I make deliberate choices and see them appear when I know this is all there is to it. But when do I know? The thing is, when I doubt, I am learning the feeling of knowing also. Because I realize I am being a part of what is really huge, I KNOW that there is not just little egoic me and how this feels. If I trust and relax, maybe what I choose is what is chosen for me?? If I am tense and distrusting, maybe what I choose is chosen for me?

It is chosen in the way that one can only see what one is able to see?
What do I see now?

http://s2.hubimg.com/u/2012727_f260.jpg

http://blog.schneider-electric.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/Old-woman-young-woman.jpg

[Guish]

Vast emptiness, no holiness
No direction, no passion
Compassion and not compulsion
Action and no reaction
Spirit and not thinking
Don't find your way, get carried away.

[Mark]

I asked for it all. I offered myself up in surrender. I was just absolutely crazed.

"Be careful what you ask for, you just might get it"...right, Roseheart?

Yes. This is the crux of the matter. When what you seek finds you. Or rather, when the realization hits that you are already that which you seek.

The beauty of life, depicted as both pain and pleasure, the ecstatic rumination upon the Now constant, yet hidden beneath the waterfall of thoughts, rushing, cascading across the promontory of mind while the deep, dark cavernous depths hidden behind the silvery effervescent gleam of twinkling thought-drops awash with the light of intellectual endeavor contribute to the miasma of turpitude that pervades ...

... it is enough to make you smile. and be silent. :)

[Wind]

cjWyLDELRqc

[Grizz Griswold]

Hi everyone,
Reading through the posts and just pondering how much we really are alike.

Like Fox: Glad to see so many kindred spirits.

and grannyfranny100: Do something for others.

I wonder, if not for conditioning, would we be the same, be one?
If not dyed by conditioning, would we be able to see how much the same we truly are?

Constant seeking is an aspect of conditioning, we then see through colored glasses, that are only concerned
for the self/i/me/mine.

When we till our garden too much, or water too much, the garden won't grow, constant seeking stops us
from being in the eternal now. Hopefully, in stillness and quiet, we can grow in Spirit/true self and come to
know our True Eternal Self.

By their fruits you shall know them
and they shall know themselves...ACIM

Namaste
b

[Roseheart]

The beauty of life, depicted as both pain and pleasure, the ecstatic rumination upon the Now constant, yet hidden beneath the waterfall of thoughts, rushing, cascading across the promontory of mind while the deep, dark cavernous depths hidden behind the silvery effervescent gleam of twinkling thought-drops awash with the light of intellectual endeavor contribute to the miasma of turpitude that pervades ...

... it is enough to make you smile. and be silent.

Love that! Yes! Thank you Rahkyt!

Thanks to everyone here for your wisdom. I have only felt to post again lately after many years but I have been here every day. x

[spiritwind]

I used to be a constant seeker. Always looking for the truth and finding pieces along the way. Now I know the truth lies within and I must look no further than myself. No more seeking. It's time to remember who we are. Sparks of divine light, no less. 

[greybeard]

The wave realises it is and was, the Ocean all along.
c

[Grizz Griswold]

The wave realises it is and was, the Ocean all along.
c

Does the Ocean concern itself with breaking against the rocks?...Smiling

Much Love
b

[greybeard]

The wave realises it is and was, the Ocean all along.
c

Does the Ocean concern itself with breaking against the rocks?...Smiling

Much Love
b

The rocks may find that a concern though---laughing.

Thanks
Much love as ever.
c

[Grizz Griswold]

I used to be a constant seeker. Always looking for the truth and finding pieces along the way. Now I know the truth lies within and I must look no further than myself. No more seeking. It's time to remember who we are. Sparks of divine light, no less. 

It is a struggle to be who we are not!..
The ease comes, when we recognize, we can never be anything else, but what we truly are.
No longer a need for constant seeking.
Thanks..... spiritwind

Namaste
b

[Grizz Griswold]

Paul Hedderman compares contstant seeking to being on a conveyor belt.

s7mZjHygO4A

b

[Grizz Griswold]

Hi everyone, here is a short talk by Paul Hedderman.
He speaks of the self as being a parasite, Not true self as spoken of in Buddhism,
but self being the same as ME/I/My....anyway this goes along with the title,
(The Constant Seeker) because it is the self looking for enlightenment, that is
constantly seeking....So if Awakening/Enlightenment is recognized, the Self,
wont be coming along...
Pauls website, where you can find this along with videos and literally hundreds
of audios is....WWW.Zenbitchslap.com

Self Is a Parasite

Wednesday, September 1, 2010
Part One

(Text is from talks by Paul Hedderman edited by James Saint Cloud.)

The room filled with people arriving to hear Paul Hedderman. He was introduced and his talk began.

“I was in the lobby of the hotel sitting by the fire last night.
A man sat down in the next chair. Said he was in town for a seminar about ‘self improvement.’ Ha, ha, ha! So I let him know what I thought of that.”


Hotel lobby, the night before.

The fire cracks and pops. Paul sips his tea. Thought-trains move through the station of his mind, offering trips to What’s-Not-Happening, off into past or future time. He simply watches them as they go through.

A man enters the room. “Is this seat available?”

“Sure,” says Paul.

“My name is Hans. I’m here for a seminar. Self-improvement sort of thing.”

“But why do that? Ha, ha, ha!”

“What do you mean?”

“Self is the problem. Better just to let it go.”

“What?”

“You go to seminars to become an improved self. But why do that? The idea of being a self is what the problem is.”

“Why do you say that?”

“Self is a parasite.”

“It is?”

“Sure. It's taken over. You’re seeing FROM it all day long.”

“I am?”

“We never entertain the idea of being outside the realm of self-centeredness, because it’s taken root in us and we are identified with it. So all we can do is therapize and socialize it, so it doesn’t flip out at the next picnic. We just hunker down in the chronic effects of self-centeredness. Failing to see the self as the parasite it is."

Hans stares at him.
"I heard a lot of concepts in earlier days about how to make things wonderful. But I heard them as a 'me.' Which neutered everything and turned it into more selfing.
The mind is obsessed with the idea of being a self. And it doesn’t recognize: That’s the dilemma. Your attention orbits around the planet Self all day, because the self provides the gravitational pull to all the thoughts, making them about YOU.

If you realized they weren’t about the real you, they could simply come and go. Your attention would be freed up from the slavery of selfing and would attend to the conscious contact; there would be a recognition in and of itself. Traveling lighter — not by any procedures or practice, but by recognition of what’s so.

A thought is just a thought; but it changes dramatically when it becomes MY thought. The interpretation of the thought as being MINE is slapped on it. That's what the self does.

The reason I’m hooked on the narrative in my head is because I think it’s about me. By freeing up some of the attention from the selfing we become aware of the conscious contact itself. The enslavement can be over by simply entertaining you’re not the selfing. If you recognize you’re not the self, you will lose interest in all its activities.

You say you want to be ‘awake.’ But while you are adsorbed in the story of self you will be unconscious to the fact that you are ALREADY AWAKE. Then you may have the curse of thinking you want to BECOME awake. Reinforcing the idea that you are not awake.

The head is playing God. And it’s already beat you, since now it’s got you thinking you’re not awake. It’s going to play with that for years.

There’s no escaping WHAT’S SO. You can SENSE living or else you can THINK about it. That’s the choice.

This is not about acquiring knowledge. It’s about waking up to the essence of what we call living. If you identify as SELF, you’re going to inhabit the realm of WHAT'S NOT HAPPENING. The future and the past.

You have tons of old ideas about you. Unless you let go of these you are traveling very heavy.

You’re meant to be fluid. A very light boat that can navigate and handle different kinds of weather. You’re just an old tanker now. Each moment big waves coming in. You need relief.


But where do you go for that release? To your head! Which is the problem. The relief it offers is part of the bondage to self. We go to the problem asking for advice!

Realize you’re not in the problem. Never have been. That’s the solution. The lie is that you were 'in self.' But you never were. Your attention was hijacked, that’s all."

“Selfing?" says Hans, "Exactly what is that?”

“Obsessing with thoughts about yourself; making up stories about the feelings you’re having or not having. Attention glued to the screen of self. It can be released, for attention to return to the conscious contact, each moment’s raw pure experience.

Most of our time is spent emphasizing what’s-not-happening over what-is-happening. We’re using what IS happening to think about what’s NOT happening and to expectantly feel about what MAY happen.

All the while there is What-Is-Happening. Why not stay there? No longer as the wave but as the whole ocean that you truly ARE."

Hans looks away into the fire. "Nothing to strive for or attain? Perhaps if I map it out . . ."


"You don’t need a map to go to the truth. You are the truth! Consciousness is inherently available to us. That’s it. That’s the entrance way. But there’s no YOU that’s going through the door, because there is no you. The idea of being a you creates the idea of a door to the truth; that it’s always outside of your contact. The idea that you might suddenly meet up with the truth. No! You are that truth. You are consciousness, right now.

Truth is available at all times, but it’s not available to what you’re not. What you’re not will never access it, it’s impossible.

Your head believes you’re what you’re not, and causes you to be unconscious of the consciousness. Then the curse of 'spiritual seeking' takes you on a journey to become conscious of consciousness. How’s that going to work?

The true happening is awareness; and that’s always happening. The relief you are seeking is always available. You don’t have to go into therapy, work on your fears and phobias, no.

When you wake from the dream there’s an instant recognition: It’s a dream-tiger. The dream is what’s not happening.

There is no reason for a YOU to appear now. It only has to do with what’s not happening. All your anxieties are a product of what’s not happening. The you that is not.

You don’t get rid of the self. Because it was never there. You sense the appearance of a mental construct called selfing, but it was never there. There is no self. No reason to get rid of it. That’s the solution.

Whatever the mind presents, just rest in that. Don’t react. Then you’ll have immunity to what the mind presents. Your reactions will change and life will be totally different. Because it’s your reaction that gives self its meaning.

Life is 'what’s happening.' But when it’s a reaction, it’s 'what’s happening to me.'"

"It's all a bit new to me, you know," Hans gets up to go. "If you'll excuse me, I must be up early for my seminar. 'An Invitation to What Is SO,' by a chap named Hedderman."

"Ha, ha, ha. Just remember, you don't improve the self. You simply let it go. Just entertain the idea you’re not the self you think you are."

Namaste
b

[Meggings]

Grizz wrote: Constant seeking is an aspect of conditioning... and elsewhere someone (perhaps Greybeard) posted a short EXCELLENT talk that hits home. I'd like to repost it for the truth Paul Hedderman speaks that fully relates to Grizz's words. And for the sheer joy Paul shares... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5jyiQhpFZRE

The opening line to this thread: Without seeking can there be Awakening? Maybe not. I would have thought that divinity came and hit me over the head on its own, but on reflection, even though surface life was full of responsibilities, work, and children, underneath there was the yearning for god, even though it did not manifest in surface practices or trips of seeking, or in thoughts or words.

So seeking apparently can be unseen by the busy personality, and yet must be there, for universal law is: ASK AND YOU SHALL RECEIVE.

[Guish]

There should be a yearning for god. Yet an attachment to god is a step backwards. One can't get attached to the idea of detachment and one can't get attached to meditation, spiritual practice or selfless living. These things happen on their own. Any event which is calculated is not pure. Vast emptiness and no holiness.

Cheers.

[Grizz Griswold]

Grizz wrote: Constant seeking is an aspect of conditioning... and elsewhere someone (perhaps Greybeard) posted a short EXCELLENT talk that hits home. I'd like to repost it for the truth Paul Hedderman speaks that fully relates to Grizz's words. And for the sheer joy Paul shares... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5jyiQhpFZRE

The opening line to this thread: Without seeking can there be Awakening? Maybe not. I would have thought that divinity came and hit me over the head on its own, but on reflection, even though surface life was full of responsibilities, work, and children, underneath there was the yearning for god, even though it did not manifest in surface practices or trips of seeking, or in thoughts or words.

So seeking apparently can be unseen by the busy personality, and yet must be there, for universal law is: ASK AND YOU SHALL RECEIVE.

Thanks Meggings,
That's one of Pauls best videos, straight to the point and easily understood.
He speaks of how we are occupied with past and future, so occupied that
we never see we are in the Present/Timeless state and completely miss it (constantly feverishly seeking)
Doing this, how could we help but miss the Timeless?

A point that should be mentioned, Like you said, ASK AND YOU SHALL RECEIVE
but nowhere does it say, after you receive, just constantly continue to Ask or Seek.

Reminds me of a friend who went to Las Vegas, sitting there playing on a machine, where if you won, it was for the jackpot,
a large wooden barrel of coins ($10,000.00). Well he won,the whole enchilada!
Instead of stopping, He put the whole $10,000.00 back in the machines and came home broke.
I ask him, why didn't you stop, you already won the jackpot? He replied, I don't know I just couldn't seem to be able to stop,
my mind kept telling me there was something bigger, if I kept going.

This is the way i believe it is with the constant seeker, mind can't accept anything in the present, so it always
sets it off in the future.....Like a carrot in front of a horse.

Thank you for your post Meggings ...Enjoyed it!

Namaste
b

[Zampano]

Just a thought that came into my mind some minutes ago.
I AM.
We kind of erased the "I" in our spiritual journey. I think we can agree to that.
How does it feel to erase the "AM"
go there
Just thinking out loud here

[Guish]

Just a thought that came into my mind some minutes ago.
I AM.
We kind of erased the "I" in our spiritual journey. I think we can agree to that.
How does it feel to erase the "AM"
go there
Just thinking out loud here

The deeper you go, the harder it is to describe one's identity as one knows that identity is made up. So what's real? Awareness that nothing is real..

[Grizz Griswold]

Just a thought that came into my mind some minutes ago.
I AM.
We kind of erased the "I" in our spiritual journey. I think we can agree to that.
How does it feel to erase the "AM"
go there
Just thinking out loud here

The deeper you go, the harder it is to describe one's identity as one knows that identity is made up. So what's real? Awareness that nothing is real..

Awareness is! all seeking and and everything we label, is external and made up/constructs, even the words being used here.
As Guish said: So what's real? Awareness that nothing is real

A teacher once said: Those who speak don't know. Those who know don't speak.
His student upset, asked how can you say that? Thinking of the importance of words.
His teacher replied, well then, do you know the smell of a lovely Rose?
The student answered, yes of course.
The teacher replied, using words then, describe how a Rose smells.

Namaste
b

[Meggings]

A fellow I've met sends out daily emails giving portions from Dr. David Hawkins books. The phrase "SPIRITUAL SEEKER" caught my attention and I thought to post it on this thread.

Q: What are the most valuable qualities for a spiritual seeker?

A: Start with certainty and a feeling of security instead of self-doubt or timidity. Accept without reservation that you are worthy of the quest and be resolved to totally surrender to the truth about God. The facts that are to be unreservedly accepted are simple and very powerful. Surrendering to them brings enormous spiritual advancement.

The living proof of God’s love and will for you is the gift of your own existence.

Do not compare yourself with others regarding ‘holiness’, merit, goodness, deservingness, sinlessness, etc. These are all human notions, and God is not limited by human notions.

Accept that the concept of ‘the fear of God’ is ignorance. God is peace and love and nothing else.

Realize that the depiction of God as a ‘judge’ is a delusion of the ego that arises as a projection of guilt from the punishment of childhood. Realize that God is not a parent.

Christ’s teaching was essentially and simply to avoid the negativity (calibrated levels below 200), and the goal of his teaching was for his followers to reach Unconditional Love (calibration level of 540). He knew that once the level of Unconditional Love was reached, the soul’s destiny after death was certain and the soul was safe. This is essentially the same conclusion that is taught by the world’s great religions, such as Lotus Land Buddhism.

Realize that salvation and enlightenment are somewhat different goals. Salvation requires purification of the ego; enlightenment requires its total dissolution. The goal of enlightenment is more demanding and radical.

Clarify that it is not a personal ‘you’ who is seeking enlightenment but an impersonal quality of consciousness that is the motivator. Spiritual inspiration and dedication carry forth the work.

Comfort replaces insecurity when one realizes that the most important goal has already been accomplished. That goal is to be on the road of spiritual dedication. Spiritual development is not an accomplishment but a way of life. It is an orientation that brings its own rewards, and what is important is the direction of one’s motives.

Appreciate that every step forward benefits everyone. One’s spiritual dedication and work is a gift to life and the love of mankind.

There is no timetable or prescribed route to God. Although each person’s route is unique, the terrain to be covered is relatively common to all. The work is to surmount and transcend the common human failings that are inherent in the structure of the human ego. One would like to think that they are personal; however, the ego itself is not personal. It was inherited along with becoming a human being. Details differ based on past karma.

Intense prayer augments dedication and inspiration and facilitates progress.

The Grace of God is available to all. Historically, the ‘Grace of the Sage’ is available to the committed spiritual seeker….

From: “I: Reality and Subjectivity” (2003), Chapter 6: Realization, pp.108–110

[Guish]

"Comfort replaces insecurity when one realizes that the most important goal has already been accomplished. That goal is to be on the road of spiritual dedication. Spiritual development is not an accomplishment but a way of life. It is an orientation that brings its own rewards, and what is important is the direction of one’s motives."

This sums it up well. For me, a spiritual person is one with no identity. One who doesn't react but act. One who finds oneself in others and helps without necessarily being attached, one who's inner peace is unshakable.......

[Grizz Griswold]

Hi Everyone,

The Constant Seeker is looking for a better deal. Spiritually seeking for the most
bang for the buck. Instead of just being who they truly are, they define what the
best bargain is and proceed to profit the best they can.

Those who are everything, looking for something better....Laughing

Here is a parody that fits with the Constant Seeker.
There is some bad language! in the video, so don't
watch if this is offensive.

f2eha1ff-aE

bazz

[Guish]

Hi Barry,

Mara/temptor/lord of ego will always try. With spiritual growth, its influence diminishes but it stays. Look at the video below. You'll see that Mara tries to tempt sidhartha even after his enlightenment(by the end of the video).

c9-1zo0oGBg

[blotter]

it's hard to imagine on the other side of those tensions and waves of confusion that the mind sends is a perfectly reciprocal peace. that is until you start to see it

the ocean/rock metaphor posted a few weeks ago struck me when I read it and allowed some realizations to peacefully unfold

thanks, grizz, I always love your threads

[Grizz Griswold]

Hi Barry,

Mara/temptor/lord of ego will always try. With spiritual growth, its influence diminishes but it stays. Look at the video below. You'll see that Mara tries to tempt sidhartha even after his enlightenment(by the end of the video).

c9-1zo0oGBg

Hi Geerish,

Can't see the video here in the US, looked up one that hopefully will have some part of your video in it.

The ego is pretty slimey, and always looks for an opportunity to take advantage. Even after awakening,
it looks to try you, remember Jesus in the garden, very similar. i like to look at ego as merely a thought,
but not mine.

RedcoTnkMQw

Love and Thanks
b

[Grizz Griswold]

it's hard to imagine on the other side of those tensions and waves of confusion that the mind sends is a perfectly reciprocal peace. that is until you start to see it

the ocean/rock metaphor posted a few weeks ago struck me when I read it and allowed some realizations to peacefully unfold

thanks, grizz, I always love your threads

The tensions and waves of confusion, continually stir and muddy the water. When one sees, there are thoughts but they
are not mine, the mind can settle and as a friend once said, all can become clear.

Good to hear from you blotter, it's good to have friends!

Much Love
b

[Meggings]

A useful approach is to let the love for God replace the willfulness that is driving the seeking.

One can release all desire to seek, and realize that the thought that there is anything else but God is a baseless vanity. This is the same vanity that claims authorship for one's experiences, thoughts, and actions. With reflection, it can be seen that both the body and the mind are the result of the innumerable conditions of the universe, and that one is at best the witness of this concordance.

Out of an unrestricted love for God arises the willingness to surrender all motives except to serve God completely. To be the servant of God becomes one's goal rather than enlightenment. To be a perfect channel for God's love is to surrender completely and to eliminate the goal seeking of the spiritual ego. Joy itself becomes the initiator of further spiritual work.

From: “The Eye of the I: From Which Nothing Is Hidden” (2001), Chapter 3: The Nature of the Quest—The Desire for Enlightenment, p. 36

[Guish]

One keeps getting detached till one is even detached from the idea of detachment. At this point, there's emptiness. No yearning for anything. Things just happen and we look at them undisturbed.

[Grizz Griswold]

One can release all desire to seek, and realize that the thought that there is anything else but God is a baseless vanity. This is the same vanity that claims authorship for one's experiences, thoughts, and actions. With reflection, it can be seen that both the body and the mind are the result of the innumerable conditions of the universe, and that one is at best the witness of this concordance.






God/ True Self / All that is, or whatever name we use, is the only Game in town
or to say it another way, there is nothing else!

The same vanity that claims authorship, our personal self...the I/Me My, finds it
insulting, that it's part is not bigger, and so makes claim to everything, so as to
blow it's self up, make itself seem bigger, and when we attach to this thinking, we
suppose this mental state to be us, it is only a mental state, not us. The personal
self can't come along. When we leave it behind, then the party begins! Smiling

The mental states that claim authorship can be left behind, we can realize
that they are not who we are, and just Witness! ---Thanks Meggings.

With Love
b

[Grizz Griswold]

One keeps getting detached till one is even detached from the idea of detachment. At this point, there's emptiness. No yearning for anything. Things just happen and we look at them undisturbed.

ditto---Thanks Geerish
With Love
barry

[Guish]

Not easy to maintain this Barry. My child was sick yesterday all night and I had a tough time at the office. I lost it a bit. Yet, I've been in this state most of the time and I've felt it. Need to let go more.

[Cinta]

wow...just wow... im quite new Avalon and have been reading so many stories and insights that exactly match all that i was shown in an instant to be true and correct...ive been doing nothing but research for months on end..seeking seeking..looking for verification..i kept asking myself..."is it real ?"..... "did what i see and feel really make so much sense or am i reading too much into it...?"....being here has shown me..its all very real and is really happening... now , my very sore butt is telling me to get off it...has been for weeks but i wasnt listening....i thought i could ascend through my laptop !!...lol... this has been my big sign in sky.... GET UP, GET OUT AND CONNECT...LIVE and let live..love and accept love, share a smile and create a butterfly effect !!....... thank you thank you so much Griz Griswold.... i was meant to see this !...and thank you to all that replied to it as every word was soaked up , processed and connection was made !!..... I think i can move forward now...this is big for me..lol.....and my butt thats had enough of this chair !!!.......... LOVE AND LIGHT TO YOU ALL MY FRIENDS .. xoxoxoxo

[Grizz Griswold]

Not easy to maintain this Barry. My child was sick yesterday all night and I had a tough time at the office. I lost it a bit. Yet, I've been in this state most of the time and I've felt it. Need to let go more.

Even the Awakened face these problems on occasion, but what we can see, touch hear etc. is not what we truly are.
Ego would have us anguish, worry about these things, all though they have never been of help...our conditioning
has led us to believe it's the proper thing to do during trying situations.

There is a saying in ACIM "of myself I can do nothing" and by turning the results over to God/All There is, works as
way to detach, at least some, from trying event.

I hope your child is well.

With Love
barry

[Grizz Griswold]

wow...just wow... im quite new Avalon and have been reading so many stories and insights that exactly match all that i was shown in an instant to be true and correct...ive been doing nothing but research for months on end..seeking seeking..looking for verification..i kept asking myself..."is it real ?"..... "did what i see and feel really make so much sense or am i reading too much into it...?"....being here has shown me..its all very real and is really happening... now , my very sore butt is telling me to get off it...has been for weeks but i wasnt listening....i thought i could ascend through my laptop !!...lol... this has been my big sign in sky.... GET UP, GET OUT AND CONNECT...LIVE and let live..love and accept love, share a smile and create a butterfly effect !!....... thank you thank you so much Griz Griswold.... i was meant to see this !...and thank you to all that replied to it as every word was soaked up , processed and connection was made !!..... I think i can move forward now...this is big for me..lol.....and my butt thats had enough of this chair !!!.......... LOVE AND LIGHT TO YOU ALL MY FRIENDS .. xoxoxoxo

As a Seeker over the years, personally have turned over many stone, looking for truth.
But found that too much seeking can lead to confusion and agitation, the mind needs
quiet and calm to see clearly.

There is a saying from St Assisi " What's looking is what you're looking for"
This simplifies the seeking process and turns it back to the internal, "You're It"

Thanks for your kind words, you will find a treasure trove of wisdom here on
Avalon. Greybeards thread, Tims Thread, Winds thread and many others.

I joined Avalon last march and had never been one to go on message boards,
but i have benefited greatly by association with others here on this site.

Welcome to Avalon Cinta and thanks.

Namaste
barry

[Guish]

Not easy to maintain this Barry. My child was sick yesterday all night and I had a tough time at the office. I lost it a bit. Yet, I've been in this state most of the time and I've felt it. Need to let go more.

Even the Awakened face these problems on occasion, but what we can see, touch hear etc. is not what we truly are.
Ego would have us anguish, worry about these things, all though they have never been of help...our conditioning
has led us to believe it's the proper thing to do during trying situations.

There is a saying in ACIM "of myself I can do nothing" and by turning the results over to God/All There is, works as
way to detach, at least some, from trying event.

I hope your child is well.

With Love
barry

He's much better, brother.

The universe sends us experiences which will force us to test our consciousness and make us go deeper into our being. I've felt that the deeper one goes, the situations become harder as well. Speaking of detachment, here is a good story to support the attitude you just mentioned. I posted it once in Chris' thread.

A beautiful girl in the village was pregnant. Her angry parents demanded to know who was the father. At first resistant to confess, the anxious and embarrassed girl finally pointed to Hakuin, the Zen master whom everyone previously revered for living such a pure life. When the outraged parents confronted Hakuin with their daughter's accusation, he simply replied "Is that so?"

When the child was born, the parents brought it to the Hakuin, who now was viewed as a pariah by the whole village. They demanded that he take care of the child since it was his responsibility. "Is that so?" Hakuin said calmly as he accepted the child.

For many months he took very good care of the child until the daughter could no longer withstand the lie she had told. She confessed that the real father was a young man in the village whom she had tried to protect. The parents immediately went to Hakuin to see if he would return the baby. With profuse apologies they explained what had happened. "Is that so?" Hakuin said as he handed them the child.
- See more at: http://truecenterpublishing.com/zenstory/isthatso.html#sthash.94NhrDjy.dpuf

[Grizz Griswold]

The cause of the Constant Seeker...I Me mine


AC-oFS74N7s


"I Me Mine"

All through the day, I me mine
I me mine, I me mine
All through the night, I me mine
I me mine, I me mine
Now they're frightened of leaving it
Everyone's weaving it
Coming on strong all the time
All through the day I me mine

I-I-me-me-mine, I-I-me-me-mine
I-I-me-me-mine, I-I-me-me-mine

All I can hear, I me mine
I me mine, I me mine
Even those tears, I me mine
I me mine, I me mine
No-one's frightened of playing it
Everyone's saying it
Flowing more freely than wine
All through the day I me mine

I-I-me-me mine, I-I-me-me mine
I-I-me-me mine, I-I-me-me mine

All I can hear, I me mine
I me mine, I me mine
Even those tears, I me mine
I me mine, I me mine
No-one's frightened of playing it
Everyone's saying it
Flowing more freely than wine
All through your life I me mine

Namaste
barry

[Wind]

Harrison was great! He knew how to write songs. :thumb:

qbm1p2rbApA

[Violet]

Thank you Barry for this thread.

I once believed that I wouldn't really know until I finished my book list but that book list is ever-receptive, so I'll never be done really...

And basically that's the answer (partially): you're never done, you can never know it all but you can know a lot, and a lot more than you think you already know.

The other part is: it's not only the theories, books and research that gets you close. I learned a lot about the world from for instance, years of biking through the city at different hours of the day. About traffic :), about children's motoric development, about people's reflexes in emergency situations, about compassion, fear, forgiveness, survival, nature, bus drivers, truck drivers, patience,...

All these little bits are part of the puzzle even though one tends to look over it as futile. You may think that the ultimate answer lies in the darkest conspiracy theory but I have a feeling it lies somewhere with the ducks near that river we crossed last Thursday.

[greybeard]

Books videos etc no doubt were extremely helpful to me, they changed my perception of life.
I could say Im travelling lighter because of these.

A quote from the late Dr David Hawkins
"Straight and narrow is the path."
"Waste no time."

I learned a tremendous amount from his Videos and books.
He did a monthly lecture which explored in great depth transcending ego and non-duality.
The U tube videos of him I would not particularly recommend but if you can find the first series of his monthly lectures (Pirate bay)
Its time well spent.

However the "path" gets narrower and narrower till eventually its a razor edge.
The remaining prayer is "Beloved Lord of my heart I want to know the TRUTH, no matter what."
Bart Marshall conversation on Bhudha at the gas pump well worth a visit.
Chris
http://batgap.com/bart-marshall/
that's the over view

Video here.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aKM4aVJXxo4

[Grizz Griswold]

Harrison was great! He knew how to write songs. :thumb:

qbm1p2rbApA

Music can bring tranquillity, the mind can slow, and thoughts can settle, and in the peaceful state, one
can find their true beingness. George Harrison was a Spiritual Seeker and it showed in His music.
Just listening to His music can be peaceful and will allow thoughts to settle...Thanks Wind

Namaste
barry

[Wind]

Music can bring tranquillity, the mind can slow, and thoughts can settle, and in the peaceful state, one
can find their true beingness. George Harrison was a Spiritual Seeker and it showed in His music.
Just listening to His music can be peaceful and will allow thoughts to settle...Thanks Wind

Namaste
barry

Hi, Barry. I couldn't agree more, that's why I listen to music every day, constantly. It brings me much peace and joy, I'm thankful for all of the great musicians. They too are responsible for transforming this world with their beautiful sounds, melodies and words. All the best.

[Grizz Griswold]

Thank you Barry for this thread.

I once believed that I wouldn't really know until I finished my book list but that book list is ever-receptive, so I'll never be done really...

And basically that's the answer (partially): you're never done, you can never know it all but you can know a lot, and a lot more than you think you already know.

The other part is: it's not only the theories, books and research that gets you close. I learned a lot about the world from for instance, years of biking through the city at different hours of the day. About traffic :), about children's motoric development, about people's reflexes in emergency situations, about compassion, fear, forgiveness, survival, nature, bus drivers, truck drivers, patience,...

All these little bits are part of the puzzle even though one tends to look over it as futile. You may think that the ultimate answer lies in the darkest conspiracy theory but I have a feeling it lies somewhere with the ducks near that river we crossed last Thursday.

I think you're right about the ducks, animals are in complete Beingness and are totally in the Now.
Most relax around animals, dogs, cats, horses and even ducks....thoughts are suddenly in the Now,
and for a while there is no reason to look at past or future, only enjoying the moment.

Thanks Violet
Namaste
b

[Grizz Griswold]

Books videos etc no doubt were extremely helpful to me, they changed my perception of life.
I could say Im travelling lighter because of these.

A quote from the late Dr David Hawkins
"Straight and narrow is the path."
"Waste no time."

I learned a tremendous amount from his Videos and books.
He did a monthly lecture which explored in great depth transcending ego and non-duality.
The U tube videos of him I would not particularly recommend but if you can find the first series of his monthly lectures (Pirate bay)
Its time well spent.

However the "path" gets narrower and narrower till eventually its a razor edge.
The remaining prayer is "Beloved Lord of my heart I want to know the TRUTH, no matter what."
Bart Marshall conversation on Bhudha at the gas pump well worth a visit.
Chris
http://batgap.com/bart-marshall/
that's the over view

Video here.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aKM4aVJXxo4

Books, videos, teachers etc---can be of great help, even Bart Marshall speaks of having turned over
many stones. He sought so much that at one time he had given up and left it to God. Perhaps that's
the best way!...Ego, always tells us, there's something else we need to do. But the Ego won't help
anyone Awaken....It will claim it for itself and put it off to the future or give an excuse from the past.
The ACIM quote "I need do Nothing" seems meaningful here.

"the path"gets narrower and narrower till eventually its a razor edge" When the path gets to this point
no longer can one go back, they can only postpone!

"Beloved Lord of my heart I want to know the TRUTH, no matter what." This is a wonderful statement.
And after saying this, it is as if one were in darkness, standing on a cliff, not knowing the height,
then stepping off into the darkness, yet without a care.

Thank you Chris.
With Love
b

[Guish]

XLgYAHHkPFs

This song is close to the ultimate realisation of our journeys no matter how different our paths are.

[Grizz Griswold]

XLgYAHHkPFs

This song is close to the ultimate realisation of our journeys no matter how different our paths are.

Much misunderstood by some, the song clearly spoke of the Spiritual oneness, and tearing down the division between all people.

With Love
barry

[Guish]

I like Lennon's tone in the song. He has it. Sometimes, when I listen to spiritual masters, there's an arrogance about their enlightenment or they try to overdo it. Spirituality makes one simple as one no longer desires things. One already becomes one with everything. One sees the beauty of every single thing. It could be the rain falling, the emptiness of the soul or the feeling of calmness in a noisy room.

[Grizz Griswold]

I like Lennon's tone in the song. He has it. Sometimes, when I listen to spiritual masters, there's an arrogance about their enlightenment or they try to overdo it. Spirituality makes one simple as one no longer desires things. One already becomes one with everything. One sees the beauty of every single thing. It could be the rain falling, the emptiness of the soul or the feeling of calmness in a noisy room.

I agree with you about Lennon, there is ease in his voice, one of my favorite songs. Some spiritual masters do seem to speak harshly, here it is, like it or not.
Don't know if this is because of the importance of the message that the're trying to impress on others, but sometimes the language does seem rote, and with
a feel of arrogance. Perhaps some need this kind of teacher. i always liked Ramana Maharshi, there was kindness and ease about him, he even stopped often to
be kind to animals, rubbing and petting them. When one realizes, that everything is a part of himself, there is ease, no defenses, nothing
to protect, meeting himself and God/All there is, in everything.

Namaste
b

[Grizz Griswold]

Here is a video by Shunyamurti, The Seeker Is The Obstacle.
It relates to what is being discussed on this thread.

S49nY9epo8g

Namaste
b

[Grizz Griswold]

Let It Be.


HgdYgz_m9Rg

[Guish]

Here is a video by Shunyamurti, The Seeker Is The Obstacle.
It relates to what is being discussed on this thread.

S49nY9epo8g


b


"In the nothing, there's something."
So true what he says. There's something beyond the mind and body and that's the something we yearn for. However, Mara, ego will tell you this is not real.