Canada introduces new "anti-terrorism" powers

[Gaia]

Canada's Governement on Friday introduced its new anti-terror legislation a sweeping range of measures that would allow suspects to be detained based on less evidence and let CSIS actively interfere with suspects' travel plans and finances. And the Liberals supported this bill before having a chance to read it. Issshh...

"You won't recognize Canada when I'm through with it."

- Stephen Harper, sometime in 2006.

Link here :

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/anti-terrorism-powers-what-s-in-the-legislation-1.2937964

Read the full text of Bill C-51, the Anti-Terrorism Act, 2015:

https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/1513457-bill-c-51.html

[Carmody]

Even the right wing newspaper (web versions) articles have comment areas that are tearing it apart.

[chancy]

Hello Everyone:
Now we have laws that supersede laws that supersede laws. I guess this is what happens when you're afraid of the closet you're hiding in! So much for democracy, integrity and everything else once held sacred in Canada. The sad thing is the conservatives actually think they are making Canada safer. Seems to me that the new laws didn't do anything except show a scared political party that is trying to get votes anyway they can since they can't even balance the budget unless they dip deeper into the small slush fund for the money to do it. Forget about lowering the debt!
chancy

[Gaia]

Hello Everyone:
Now we have laws that supersede laws that supersede laws. I guess this is what happens when you're afraid of the closet you're hiding in! So much for democracy, integrity and everything else once held sacred in Canada. The sad thing is the conservatives actually think they are making Canada safer. Seems to me that the new laws didn't do anything except show a scared political party that is trying to get votes anyway they can since they can't even balance the budget unless they dip deeper into the small slush fund for the money to do it. Forget about lowering the debt!
chancy

Harper's governement has been cultivating its own nasty kind of nationalism since day one. Fawning over the monarchy, hogging the North Pole, transparently excited about a new Cold War, obsessed with hockey, and of course trigger happy with the military. It has worked splendidly. I don't think it's economic for Harper. I think it's about his political vision.The attack on Parliament Hill was a propaganda victory for Harper in ways that are absolutely chilling. The thing is, that attack was minor compared to some previous incidents in Canadian legislatures. I really love being Canadian. I really hate Stephen Harper. Times for change... I am not really that fond of Trudeau or Mulcair but I imagine they cannot be any worse than Harper.

[chancy]

Hello Gaia:
It's interesting how a majority government thinks they can do anything without the approval of the people. ( They always say they have everyones approval BUT it's pretty hard to have approval when no one even knows until it's too late that new terror laws and what have you are past ) I only have one Christmas present still waiting to be delivered and that's the conservatives get kicked out of office for attempting to destroy a Fantastic Canada. They will blame it on everyone except themselves.
Just a thought....have you ever thought that it might have been a false flag operation getting a person that was mentally ill to storm Parliament. Two people die ( includes the mentally ill fellow ) and everything changes for everyone in Canada. I know it's a theory but definitely possible with conservatism running things.
In the next federal election they need another box on the ballot.
NONE OF THE ABOVE
That would show the real tally of votes and give everyone the chance to elect a complete new parliament which might actually work for Canadians instead of personal interests.
chancy

[Milneman]

"Without prejudice"

So let me get this right:

Just picking a few points from the opening pages of the act.

Part 1 enacts the Security of Canada Information Sharing Act, which authorizes Government of Canada institutions to disclose information to Government of Canada institutions that have jurisdiction or responsibilities in reset of activities that undermine the security of Canada. (page 1)

Don't the mods do this on the forum? Why is it a big issue when it's now the government? Isn't the intent and behaviour the same?

Part 3 amends the Criminal Code to, with respect to recognizanccs to keep
the peace relating to a terrorist activity or a terrorism offence, extend their
duration, provide for new thresholds, authorize a judge to impose sureties and
require a judge to consider whether it is desirable to include in a recognizance
conditions regarding passports and specifed geographic areas. With respect to
all recognizances to keep the peace, the amendments also allow hearings to be
conducted by video conference and orders to be transferred to a judge in a
territorial division other than the one in which the order was made and in,
crease the maximum sentences for breach of those recognizances.

So basically the members only section. And the ability of moderators to use Skype to discuss actions towards certain members of the forum. Again, I bring this up not because I'm trying to stir the pot, but rather point out that within our own forum we have guidelines that are not dissimilar to the ones being proposed by the Government of Canada, and yet when it is the Government of Canada....

It further amends the Criminal Code to provide for an offence of knowingly
advocating or promoting the commission of terrorism offences in general. It
also provides a judge with the power to order the seizure of terrorist propagan-
da or, if the propaganda is in electronic form, to order the deletion of the pro-
paganda from a computer system.

I love this one because it potentially means that if, by chance, someone posts something online, say, at this forum, which a judge in Canada considers to be knowingly advocating or promoting the commission of terrorism offences in general, they can by law....uhoh. Nobody here's ever had a post deleted have they? ;)

Finally, it amends the Criminal Code to provide for the increased protection
of witnesses, in particular of persons who play a role in respect of proceedings
involving security information or criminal intelligence information, and
makes consequential amendments to other Acts.

I wonder if this also applies to Milabs....

This is my point: When I see people posting this story and commenting in the way that they are, I feel the need to point out that in fact the Emperor has no clothes.

Just a touch ironic, isn't it? The best way to hide the truth from someone is to put it somewhere in plain sight where it can be seen by everyone, and then deny that it exits at all. :ufo:

[Flash]

You do like to stir the pot my friend!!!

The problem is the application of the law. Laws, in my views, are exclusively made to control - to control whatever, but for sure to control - and lawyers are the guardians of the control.

Here we are in a small forum that allows quite a lot of leeway, as long as it is polite and cooperative.

What Harper wants to implement has a great risk of overspreading to a "fascist" imposition of those who CAN impose their will through huge amounts of money for lobying for example, or through access to power, any kind of power over the whole society. Check Germany's history for this, being spread worldwide.

We are reversing what human nature would naturally provide: cooperation instead of punitionand separateness.

Canada has lost its former glory of pacific and pacifying country, thanks to Harper. We would have avoided most terrorism risks if we would have kept on our basic view of the world and our role in it, because we were pacifists and culturally biaised to promote the well being of all. And here I am talking French and English subset of Canadian culture.

Laws will never bring that attitude in, on the contrary, it brings separateness.

[Carmody]

Milneman:

All your points rest on the one turn.

The hidden turn---- the turn that is hidden from the public eye.

The secret handshake.

The magicians trick.

The fact that the government can be and is filled with corporate hacks, insiders, sociopaths, psychopaths, plants, corporate enablers, etc.

The idea that the government is not controlled by forces and directives that are not for the good of the public, but for corporations and private interests.

That one out of every six police officers are freemasons. which leads to an understanding of who is driving and running the police forces.

And who is driving and running the military.

And city councils. And so on.

And, the judiciary, which comes whole cloth from the BAR (out of the city of London!, the western banking core) association, where it is likely that 99%+ are freemasons.

Nevermind the government where the penetration and insane self aggrandizement and secretive function is even worse.

The technical descriptive when corporate or monied interest, work in secret, together, with the government, against the will of the population..that word, in the dictionary,and the encyclopedia, is fascism.

fascism, or corporatism... leads directly to paranoid totalitarianism....which leads to bloodbaths. Where the public is turned into feudal toys and sheer animal manipulation as a tool and toy, by the oligarchical aspects of the given 'turning fascist' government.

We have, around the globe, historical records which show that these bloodbaths are a regular and near perfect lock-step occurrence (about a 100% follow through), when secretive insider corporatized fascists overtake counties and their governments.

Their big game is to propose reasonable cautions, based upon internally created false flag and falsely created or mislabeled events, in order to manipulate the direction of the public.

thus, Milneman, your position looks reasonable, if one is blind, foolish and a blank slate of a human being... and one dismisses 100% of all history, 100% of all the record and 100% of all the potentials in the the history and the record.

basically, that your position is ultimately, simply retarded and of such a proposition of gullibility and awkward illiteracy that I cannot believe that a human being who can use the alphabet as well as you do....would even propose it.


Since I cannot believe that ...

...we are left with the conclusion that your position is one of a 'plant' or divisive content, a counterargument that comes from such a secretive insider class and type, who infiltrates forums in the guise of presenting reasonable positions. specifically in order to interfere, divide, and slow the process of clarity down, to break it's edge, to break it's motions. As well, to do so, in order to have a way of presenting what looks reasonable, as an argument... for the given blank human being, or paranoid right winger, (if the label fits, use it) who may come along and read the musings of those who know better.

I've no problem with a functional secret society but history has shown that the secret societies, in their strict hierarchy, their dark and occluded systems..those systems of operation and being are INCREDIBLY vulnerable to takeover, from the inside, for nefarious purpose. That they are the perfect host for the perfect virus. Since secret societies deal with long term time lines, centuries.... that their penetration and control for nefarious purpose...and turning into a malevolent virus, one that is detrimental to society, is a fundamental given act and occurrence. It is just a matter if time and the time has most certainly been given.

And that is where we sit today.

On the verge of having this whole recent round of 'giant piles of insider fascist crap'... break wide open. Again.


~~~~~~~

Most people who understand, in simple clarity, what I'm saying here, they are generally afraid to say these things, deeply afraid...... but these things very much need to be said.

So we are once again, at that point, secret society dudes. Sh!t.... or get off the pot. Clean out your ranks, or die on the vine.

[Gaia]

I agree with Flash Milneman, you like to stir the pot...

Since the sniper Michael Zehaf Bibeau attacked the Canadian Parliament on October 22 ,Harper and his governement have repeatedly presented Canada as a nation under siege. Despite the fact that no link between the attack of October and any terrorist organization in the country, let alone abroad, has been demonstrated. This did not stop Harper to describe the act of disoriented Zehaf Bibeau and attack against Charlie Hebdo as similar examples in the war of Jihadists.

Governement spokesmen have used the arrest based on terrorism related charges of three men in the Ottawa area, all young adults including at least a recent convert to Islam, to strengthen this country fear.

Harper has tried to present his governement as a defender of democracy and civil liberties. :rolleyes: In reality, it represents the interests of the rich and super rich! Cuts in spending for public and social services, increasing the retirement age, criminalises strikes, develops the national security state, including the proclamation a general right to spy on electronic communications of Canadians.

And participates in all the wars waged by the United States from Afghanistan to Libya, the new war in Iraq and Syria.

My point is Milneman: Failure to cooperate may result in arrest and imprisonment for a period of one year. This is called the judicial investigation and I would like to add that this law has significantly limit the exercise of several fundamental freedoms in our country. We still have the right to express our dissatisfaction and our concerns at Avalon Forum.

Amicalement!

Gaia

[Flash]

Carmody, I did not know you could be so direct. Wow!

I know that Milneman is not a plant, and has done this exercise -of his- out of a mind game. But I must add that it is precisely where the bat hits the head - thinking we are playing a mind game that will be utilise by others either as truth or as propaganda phrases. Giving amunitions to the fascists. The real truth is quite different from this mind game.

If the West would only see what we see in the East, being nearer Ottawa, we do hear the gossips for the inner circles, if we are unlucky enough - and Harper's handlers are something else than humans, under human disguise (certainly zero heart and inflated self importance like never seen before and extremely bright - they know exactly what they are doing with Harper).

With Harper, we are under oïl control, equated with the Queen of England and the Netherlands, the Bushes, etc. The pipelines infighting right now from the tar sands of Alberta is between the Queen for a west-east pipelines and the Bushes for a north-south pipelines, and then you know in which camp Obama is and who is holding him in place. And in which camp Harper is - he prefers north-south doesn't he?

At the end, it is the same game, nature or human beings have no say about it. Only oïl money.

[Carmody]

I wanted to give him the wiggle room. seriously. I still do. But I did not, as that is the method by which infiltration, and breaking of motion, that is the door which it comes through.

I put the onus back on him, where it should be.

[ThePythonicCow]

It is entirely fitting and proper for my immune system to behead, disembowel, and dissolve in a toxic soup any hostile invading bacteria it identifies in my body. But my immune system neither has, nor seeks, any such license to perform any such "justice" (as George W. Bush might call it) elsewhere, outside the immediate physical scope of my body.

It is entirely fitting and proper for the members and moderators to share and disclose information to the administrators and founder of this forum regarding activities that undermine the security of this forum. But we (moderators, adminstrators, and founder) have no remit to seek or to receive information regarding the rest of members lives, beyond what they willingly share or allowed to be shared, here, on this forum.

It is entirely fitting and proper for the moderators and such of this forum to hold private discussions about activities of the members of this forum which effect the security and ongoing well being of this forum, and which sometimes result in decisions to apply or extend actions effecting the status of Avalon forum members and/or their posts and other such material submitted here. But this jurisdiction ends at the border of Avalon.

It is entirely fitting and proper for the moderators and such of this forum to modify, move or even delete material posted to this forum that steps too far outside the forum guidelines or otherwise brings unwarranted harm to this forum or its members or other beings or higher purposes. But that remit ends at the border of Avalon; we neither have nor seek any such jurisdiction over what is posted elsewhere.

Actions and license which are analogues in effect, but sharply distinct in scope of jurisdiction, are sharply distinct.

The essential problem with such activities as the use of force, secrecy and extra-judicial proceedings lies in their scope of application and the level and scope of force used to impose their will on others. I get to shoot stone cold dead someone who invades my home with a credible threat of extreme violence. Neither I nor the US or Canadian government gets to drop a high explosive drone strike on you and 53 of your closest friends in some far away land. (Obviously the US and Canadian governments don't consult me before performing such operations.) The moderators and administrators get to assist Bill in deciding what shall be posted on his forum, and who shall be allowed to post there. But we, in these roles, neither have, nor seek, nor should be allowed, any such authority or power over other forums, and we neither have, nor seek, nor should be allowed any such capability of force that might enable us enforce such choices elsewhere.

Nor, for that matter, should the Canadian government (or any other government) get to decide what is posted here on Avalon. Of course, they do have vastly superior force, in multiple (legal, military, financial, and media) dimensions, so might someday be so tempted.

http://politicsofphotojournalism.weebly.com/uploads/2/7/4/2/27426605/5498746_orig.jpg

[ThePythonicCow]

I know that Milneman is not a plant, and has done this exercise -of his- out of a mind game. But I must add that it is precisely where the bat hits the head - thinking we are playing a mind game that will be utilise by others either as truth or as propaganda phrases. Giving amunitions to the fascists. The real truth is quite different from this mind game.
Usually it is not for me to know whether someone is consciously a plant, or unconsciously performing in such a role.

I have pretty much decided that it is actually none of my business either.

What matters to me, in my role as a member and administrator of this forum, is the presence that myself and others have, on and within this forum. It matters not why others do what they do, or what they are conscious of.

[Gaia]

In recent thread I made, it became clear to me that the political opinions in Canada are increasingly divided and conflicting as to the governements who lead us in Quebec and Canada. But this thread will not be the last , there is a rage in Quebec and over Canadian population. This will be felt on March 21. You can feel the discontent and desire uprising in the medias and organizations in the country that will lead them according to a general strike of public services with College and Universities students. To demonstrate our oppostion against ambient austerity, lack of transparency and abollition some of our fundamental rights by those who govern us. And this time it will be a Spring Maple sound by pans coast to coast like 2012 movement amplified by the police oppression. Harper remove the right to protest and go on strike. We will see what going to happen! I didnt mean to hurt anybody. My apologies!

Ne plus discuter de politique Canadienne pour un temps...


Voilà le Canada dans des temps plus heureux:

eoDDnOUKDQI

[Hervé]

[...]

Ne plus discuter de politique Canadienne pour un temps...


[...]
I am closing this thread at the request of the OP.

Thread closed!

[ThePythonicCow]

Just picking a few points from the opening pages of the act.

You do like to stir the pot my friend!!!

we are left with the conclusion that your position is one of a 'plant' or divisive content, a counterargument that comes from such a secretive insider class and type, who infiltrates forums in the guise of presenting reasonable positions. specifically in order to interfere, divide, and slow the process of clarity down, to break it's edge, to break it's motions.

Ne plus discuter de politique Canadienne pour un temps...

I am closing this thread at the request of the OP.
I am sending a warning message (via PM) to Milneman. It is unfortunate, in my view, that he succeeded in getting a useful thread on a dangerous twist to Canadian poliitics shut down, and perhaps further discouraged other such threads in the future.

Please continue to report posts of Milneman (or others) that you find disruptive. We moderators, myself included, tend to not react to many such reports, but we do notice them, and eventually, our patience runs thin.