Nothing to Hide, nothing to worry about?

[Asteria]

I have heard this saying many times whenever members of the public state they are against the intrusion of privacy by government

"Yeh well, if you have nothing to hide, then you have nothing to worry about"

For me, this frustrates me to hear people say this because it means they do not believe they have a right to privacy - that they are happy for anyone to just walk through their door and have a good old snoop.

Or, they acknowledge that the government (a people elected government, that showed trust in them) do not trust them and are fine with this

Or, they show that must trust in the government/law that they only mess with those who break the law and leave law abiding citizens allow

So many others but I wonder

What do you think and how would you argue against that point to someone who tries to shut you down by saying that

[christian]

Obviously the government has a lot to hide and a lot to worry about. I mean on top of the fact that it misappropriates entrusted economic leverage to spy on its own citizens.

As technology advances, interception of information might become easy for the common man. Criminalizing this would thus be economically irresponsible and about as successful as prohibition. I think a more realistic way to protect privacy and prevent interception would be the usage of tools and mechanisms to counter spy technologies.

[Mark]

I personally would not argue the point. In fact, I would probably agree. It can be considered paradoxical that oppositional understandings both have validity. Yes, in one sense, if you have nothing to hide, you have nothing to worry about. On the other, if you have nothing to hide, you do have things to worry about. Both are correct, as far as they go.

1) the decrease in personal privacy.
2) the danger of increased surveillance by the state

The argument people put forth when faced with this particular statement is that lessened freedoms for others will result in increased control exerted by the state which is dangerous for everybody. For those who have nothing to hide, their danger comes from being part of groups targeted by the state. Even if they are blameless, living the narrative of their sub-group, the existence of the group itself is deemed dangerous and, therefore, in spite of their openness and honesty, they are implicated by association. This is not an individualized guilt, this is a collective guilt and peculiar to the depredations of state actors as pertaining to minority groups within the geographic boundaries of the state. This potentiality fractals at both micro and macro levels as well.

The reality is that we live in a surveillance state. That will only continue to increase unless there is an Event that disrupts civilization and returns the reduced human family to a post-stone Age Atlantean state of subsistence-level communities and highly advanced centers that survived the cataclysm.

Even considering the two Elite streams of societal evolution - one that is genocidal and Breakaway Civilization-oriented, the other that is supportive of universal socialism, basic income and interstellar travel - neither promises a lessening of the surveillance state. In fact, the evolution of technology and the potential onset of the Singularity and AI as a mundane companion to humanity is occurring simultaneous to this coalescence of the human family around the poles of these disparate visions for our collective evolution.

The possibility of creating enclaves of technological suppression potentially exists to an extent at the fringes of society, in the underdeveloped nations and some regions of the developed. In these spaces, those who require personal space for whatever reason could probably find haven and refuge against the surveillance world.

Transhumanist universalism or Naturalistic parochialism seem paradoxical but, as is the case with all oppositional expressions of reality, have always existed and probably always will.

So yeh ... some facimile of this discussion is prob how I would shut down anybody who came at me with such a polarizing statement. I'd be curious to see if they had considered the full implications of their stance and the various permutations in societal evolution it implies.

[East Sun]

Honest law abiding citizens do have a lot to worry about when the law enforcers are not the law any more but very often the opposite. Political slogans are used by politicians who are not in the people's best interest, just to manipulate. It's politicalese that we don't need or want.

[Ernie Nemeth]

I have everything to hide and it's none of your business why! That's how I answer that. Or else it wouldn't be private, now would it?

[Sunny-side-up]

Hmm!

I think if you turn it around and relate it to American Politicians you get this kind of answer!

American (Not just American, All leading World Politicians as far as I can tell that is) Politician says:

Nothing to Hide, nothing to worry about because:
Nothing to Hide-If I'm caught doing something wrong, nothing bad happens to me anyways ;)
Nothing to worry about-Well I partook in the 'Burn-Care-Ritual' so all is good with me and my fellows, so no worry's ;)

[Nasu]

For me it's a simple matter of logic, the government puts out the spin that if you have nothing to hide then you have nothing to fear from government snooping, however, I would turn it around, if the government had nothing to hide they would be transparent, the fact that they are not, speaks volumes. When the government chooses to be transparent, so will I... N

[3(C)+me]

Here's my question why does the government feel it needs to track everyone in the universe? What is that really about other than what they say. The government is obviously paranoid and I think the off planet types have a hand in this but how, no idea.

[the_real_dave-id]

Hey Asteria, My argument is always the same for folks who say "Yeh well, if you have nothing to hide, then you have nothing to worry about".

I say "I don't have anything to hide when I'm going to the bathroom, but I don't want anyone in there watching me, do you?" This will often make them think for a moment, and sometimes if I'm lucky, shut 'em up.

Not wanting to be viewed even though you have nothing to hide is the essence of privacy to me, and I hold that it's a right, not a privilege.

[yelik]

I think it's all about control especially as the population grows they fear being overthrown or not in control. The priority of most Governments is retain their power and control at all costs.

Technology has played a big part because years ago computing power was insufficient to monitor everyone. Nowadays technology is such that they're looking for stuff to monitor because they can. Furthermore spying and surveillance used to involved each country spying on one and other including people in positions of power as well as industrial.

Since the 1800's the banking elites controlled money supply, then we got the oil cartels and Military industrial complex where after the end of WWII more and more power is now in the hands of Trans National Corporations including ET technology where lucrative Government contracts are shared between senior politicians and their associates in the corporations. Today the CIA, NSA, Homeland Security and security services in other western countries are effectively controlled by the Zionist Cabal hell bent on causing the destruction of the people and the planet so as to impliment their NWO plans.

Mass spying service a purpose which is to instil fear, unrest and racial hatred about false flag attacks from various parts of the world to support their plans

[rgray222]

https://scontent-iad.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpf1/v/t1.0-9/p417x417/16506_10153053512853908_2170565858217629252_n.jpg?oh=76f1b4f2fbca8ea64636103f6234d36c&oe=5550606B

This is why they fear the masses and this is why they are slowly taking away freedoms. Regardless of what you hear about the elites/PTB they are no different than 10 jailers guarding 10,000. At any given point the masses could rise up and take back their freedoms. They know this, they fear this and this is why they constantly send up trial balloons to see how much they can get society to accept.

Losing freedoms happens incrementally, society usually sleepwalks through the process. The people that erode our freedoms know that there is a tipping point, it takes about 10% of the population to wake up before the masses begin to get on board. The day that the common man dares to take the power that he has always possessed is the day that the collective consciousness kicks in and the world changes for the better.

[Violet]

The danger is in the limit, if any. Where does it stop and how much should I be ok with to not hide, if I have nothing to hide anyway.

If that limit is going to change for the worse from day to day (and it does) as terror alarms go up and down, for instance, then we have a problem. I want to enjoy a basic right to be left alone sometimes and if that looks suspicious for whatever reason then, I guess I do not feel so free, or: my own, but rather seemingly belonging to whoever demands that I answer.

And I'm very realistic about technical tools to protect privacy. Why would I want to make myself believe that I can get free to small budget solutions that are going to make me invisible to whoever owns the biggest/newest/whateverest solutions in that same area?

Now, what can I do about this? I'll read along.

[donk]

The danger is whatever we make it. All this whole silly idea really is, is just a total manipulation of your emotions.

Your "right" to "privacy" is a DELUSION, negated by free will. That's what you have to "worry" about, if you choose to worry.

Reality is, you have had about as much "privacy" as you have "freedom". All this is, is those that COULD take it from you (if and when they chose to) throwing it in your face, and letting you pretend you can do something about it (and get all outraged--while they laugh at you shaking your fist at the eeee-vile gubmint)

[Robin]

I would suggest to you checking out Larken Rose's YouTube Channel (https://www.youtube.com/user/LarkenRose/videos).

Larken has written what I see as one of the most important books ever written, The Most Dangerous Superstition (http://www.amazon.com/Most-Dangerous-Superstition-Larken-Rose/dp/145075063X/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1424371212&sr=1-1&keywords=the+most+dangerous+superstition). If I were you, I would recommend this book to anybody who doesn't mind government spying and lack of privacy. If they won't buy it then I would buy a copy and gift it to them.

Here are a couple select videos from his channel that may help you:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ngpsJKQR_ZE


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GXm0YHq85Yc

[Carmody]

well, if you throw meat scraps in your driveway, the crows gather to eat it.

eventually, they make your driveway part of their daily routine.

shortly thereafter, they complain when the meat does not appear.

they come to having a developed sense of demanding entitlement.

If you leave a hole in the side of your life and community... over time, the sociopaths and the psychopaths gather to 'eat it'.

After a while, they control the gathering and fight for your 'life' as 'meat',

After a while they develop a system of eating that meat and sharing it among them or fighting over it.

After a while, with this hole being so regular and normalized, a system develops where you are the expendable and they are the herder and controller, as that is what you and they drifted into, via your acquiescence, laziness, general lack of attention, and simple niceness in sharing... and their insistence.

It really is that simple. Monarchies, Oligarchies, capitalistic extremes, totalitarian-socialism, all the same.


Fascism creeps --- while you sleep.

Drip-drip-dripping you to death, inching forward to being more extreme every day.

They come from a place, a mindset, a neural wiring... that has no hesitation to moving to the level of death and murder, on simple to large scales, it is inherently part of their scale of capacities in motion and thoughts.

Thus, no matter the level of simplicity of your immediate situation, their side of the table is always ready to show you a gun.

You back down.

Until you've allowed things to escalate, over time, in small steps.. to the point where you have to respond in extreme ways.

You have to realize that this is the case, from the very beginning, and respond with such in mind, in all things.