Solar Power, the decentralized grid, and the urgency of getting our Sh*$ together

[Silo]

Good morning all!

Now before someone starts talking about Carrington events, let's just pretend that we should probably be moving forward with care and caution as a species. We face these dangers whether we make progress or not.

If there is urgency in any of the following, it is contained here...


. . . justice, ashamed, retracts her maxims, and sorrow lowers her bandage over her blushing cheeks. And it was but yesterday that this progress in social philosophy began: fifty centuries required for the extirpation of a lie! During this lamentable period, how many usurpations have been sanctioned, how many invasions glorified, how many conquests celebrated! --Proudhon

This graphic is probably familiar to everyone but, if not, it applies to many things--not the least of which is energy.

http://i59.tinypic.com/2eefm91.jpg

One of the many ways forward

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/innovations/wp/2014/09/19/the-coming-era-of-unlimited-and-free-clean-energy/


Futurist Ray Kurzweil notes that solar power has been doubling every two years for the past 30 years — as costs have been dropping. He says solar energy is only six doublings — or less than 14 years — away from meeting 100 percent of today’s energy needs. Energy usage will keep increasing, so this is a moving target. But, by Kurzweil’s estimates, inexpensive renewable sources will provide more energy than the world needs in less than 20 years. Even then, we will be using only one part in 10,000 of the sunlight that falls on the Earth.

The Secret Dirty War to Stop Solar Power--outlines some of the political machinations that were mention in the WP article.

1RYKNA3nj6Q

There are political battles to be fought, but ultimately the leaders are nothing but shameless followers. When there is a critical mass, these things will happen. (I hope!)

Nick Bostrom: The Fable of the Dragon Tyrant

Here is metaphor about setting long term goals and the need to put aside, as much as possible, our immediate needs to get there. In this story, Mr. Bostrom talks of the urgency to find a cure to death, but I think this could apply to any idea that we feel important.


Failure to appreciate the urgency. Until very late in the story, nobody fully realized what was at stake. Only as the king was staring into the bloodied face of the young pleading man does the extent of the tragedy sink in.

http://www.nickbostrom.com/fable/dragon.pdf

I know that folks will play the polemic here, and that's ok. We need criticism to refine our ideas. But I would like to focus more in this post on practical ways of bringing about the world we'd all like to see.

For my part, I would just like to be warm, fed, and happy. I don't think I need much more. It seems to me, if I could do the following I would be many paces closer to an existence that allows me the time and freedom to live:

Power my home, heat my water, cook my food, grow my food, power my vehicle, and contribute to, not only my own family's well being, but to that of my fellow human.

Thanks for reading.

[yelik]

Thought provoking array of metaphors. We still make the same mistakes though!

[Ernie Nemeth]

Energy is the top game in the world today and has been for many decades. To break their virtually total control, solar power will not cut it. It is nice and cute and cuddly but it is not the source of power to set humanity free.

Only the sequestered and top secret energy sources, withheld from the public for over a hundred years if not more, can break the cycle of poverty and scarcity as the world experiences it today. Most cannot even dream of such a world and the many changes such a power source would bring about: no more death by starvation, no more war, no pollution, (the manufacture of solar panels creates pollution), no more tyranny, no more elites running our lives, no more going to pointless jobs, no ghettos, no leverage for the rich, no financial slight of hand with fractional reserve models or other pseudo-monetary games, no homelessness and many, many more incredible advances in the quality of life for every individual.

I have been dreaming of such a world for several years now and it is not as easy as it sounds. Wade is right, it is not those in power that resist this possibility- it is the masses themselves.

[Silo]

Thanks for your reply Rebel.


Energy is the top game in the world today and has been for many decades. To break their virtually total control, solar power will not cut it. It is nice and cute and cuddly but it is not the source of power to set humanity free.

Only the sequestered and top secret energy sources, withheld from the public for over a hundred years if not more, can break the cycle of poverty and scarcity as the world experiences it today.

I'm not sure I agree with you on this, if for no good reason other than one seems closer to within our grasp.

I feel that energy and time independence will allow for a greater breaking down of the walls you describe and an end to the truth embargo, to borrow a term.

There are many ways forward. I guess I tend to think that solar has greater potential than simply being cute and cuddly.

[Ernie Nemeth]

Sorry, I did not mean to offend.

What I meant was that solar is no threat to the power moguls who run our world. A few watts of power will not ruin their game. And it is not always sunny. For instance, the area south of Vancouver gets sun 1 day in three - can't make much power with those ratios. Not to mention the nights, here in Canada, the nights get very long. Also, the power density to weight ratio is horrible - it is not very portable because of the storage bottle-neck. It may be good for homes but only as a back-up source. Solar power also is a centralized affair if you want big power - the kind to run cities and such.

For me, I see it as more a distraction than a solution. There is money in it, for me especially as an electrician. I have been involved here in Toronto with mega-watt installations so I know a bit about it... For a while I thought of getting into the field but the costs are still very high and the return is small. Profits are high if you find the right customers but I don't want to sell them a system wrought with inefficiency and high-maintenance storage equipment. Not to mention the costs of installing along-side conventional electrical system: manual or auto transfer switch, power regulator, charging system, batteries, separation of electrical system into essentials and peripherals (solar cannot power the entire system!). So there are some down-sides to solar that are glossed over by the cottage industry that promotes it. Real solar high tech is just another game for those same power moguls.

[Silo]

Sorry, I did not mean to offend.

What I meant was that solar is no threat to the power moguls who run our world.

I didn't take offense, guess I should work on my bedside manner. Thanks for your reply.

I'm just trying to increase my understanding of the topic and get others interested.

I truly feel that we can accomplish anything we put out mind to.

I wonder about these things:
1. I understood that some panels work better in overcast, cooler temperatures.
2. The technology growth is exponential...what will these technologies look like in 10 years?
3. If there is no threat to big energy, then why the pre-emptive legislation discussed in the OP video?
4. Half of my monthly budget is taken up with energy costs. Aren't I well served if I can recoup these costs with renewable free (after I've paid for the setup) energy?
5. Another quarter of my budget is food--same as #4

Thanks for taking your time to reply.

[Ernie Nemeth]

Anything to get off the grid, eh? That's different.

Lighting is the most costly part of our electrical costs, after refrigerating and heating ( unless you have electrical heating which is very inefficient). The new LED lights coming out can save a heap of money: 8 watts versus 50. All the lighting in a typical house can now be put on a single circuit (not recommended but possible). Combined with solar, this could be a very good solution because LEDs use DC power which is what solar panels put out. One 50 watt panel (typical) could power five lights! - as opposed to one!

An average home has around fifty lights - that would require ten solar panels, not bad really...

[Silo]

Anything to get off the grid, eh? That's different.

Lighting is the most costly part of our electrical costs, after refrigerating and heating ( unless you have electrical heating which is very inefficient). The new LED lights coming out can save a heap of money: 8 watts versus 50. All the lighting in a typical house can now be put on a single circuit (not recommended but possible). Combined with solar, this could be a very good solution because LEDs use DC power which is what solar panels put out. One 50 watt panel (typical) could power five lights! - as opposed to one!

An average home has around fifty lights - that would require ten solar panels, not bad really...

That's pretty awesome.

I wouldn't say "anything to get off the grid" though.

I was thinking that people could become their own grid with communities working together to share resources.

Thanks for your input.

[Lifebringer]

As soon as we the people can stop the chemtrails, we'll really be able to measure the correct amount of sun days. But either way. One day of sun's energy is equivalent to a century of power on earth if harnessed. I know it's possible, and the wind turbines in the tornado alley, but lower to the ground ones when tornado activity or heavy storms are forecast. An automated timer according to doppler reading connected to the wind/energy farms. Oh yeah, the motivation to be free from big oil, and free our children to do the same, is well worth it. Tesla was right. No need to enslave people for energy when it's free for the using. I like the water generators that are wireless, quiet and no fumes. 4 gallons for 72 hours of electricity, and now they have a car that runs on salt water because salt water can be used in batteries. A whole wealth of information and vision and ingenuity, awaits our generation as soon as the old toxic monopolies, are starved off our pocket.
WE've been after them to do it since the 1970's. They didn't listen so we'll do it ourselves.

[meat suit]

excellent thread!!

there are a number of points to add..
1. it is probably true that the PTB has free energy generation going on and are keeping it secret from us so the can continue their oil/arms/money racket.
2. they have let us play with hippy stuff like wind power and solar power, thinking that it would never be a threat to them.

but it turns out that both wind and solar have gone from 5% efficiency to 20% efficiency in the last 20 years.
at the same time the internet has come into existence, and from that we learned that a decentralized system ie. sitting on many small servers can actually work using an ancient telefon cable network. the internet would never work so well if it was centralized sitting on 5 or so national servers coming down giant phone cables.

the future is wide spread local small scale power generation that feeds the national grid (since its there) that kind of grid is much more robust since it has so many sources of power.

near where I live a large wind turbine was installed recently to power a tyre recycling plant. that plant needed a bigger power supply than the main grid could supply, so they build a big turbine... brilliant...

[Silo]

excellent thread!!
the future is wide spread local small scale power generation that feeds the national grid (since its there) that kind of grid is much more robust since it has so many sources of power.

I agree Meat suit. I don't think the distributed model is limited to just energy and internet either.

Local farming co-ops have understood this concept for a long time.

I would like to see my city/county buy things like a 3d house printer...when the technology begins to mature, if it hasn't all ready.

http://www.cnet.com/news/worlds-first-3d-printed-apartment-building-constructed-in-china/

Create our own local high-speed communications network.

http://www.coindesk.com/blockchain-play-role-kim-dotcoms-uncensorable-internet/

3d printing for consumer goods...when the technology matures

http://manufacturing.materialise.com/consumer-goods

It seems like the possibilities are endless.

I'd like to see us stop worrying so much about things we don't have enough info on to make informed decisions (or might be total fabrications), although I admit, some of the stories are pretty sexy and captivating, and start focusing on things that will actually improve our lives.