So True (Thomas Merton quote about a person's value)

[Ioneo]

"We are so obsessed with doing that we have no time and no imagination left for being. As a result, men are valued not for what they are but for what they do or have .... for their usefulness." Thomas Merton

Sad but true.

[Wind]

People in the west have been mostly focused on doing while in the east focused on being.

[Grizz Griswold]

"We are so obsessed with doing that we have no time and no imagination left for being. As a result, men are valued not for what they are but for what they do or have .... for their usefulness." Thomas Merton

Sad but true.

Here in the US, most have taken their identity from everyone else,...school, church, government, television, friends, family, very few
have broken through the barrier of this conditioning and looked inward toward being. Even from an early age 2-3 years old,
children are asked what do you want for Christmas? children start to value possessions, later it becomes, what can i do
to gain more possessions?, on and on, like hampsters on a wheel. Very few would understand what is spoken of here,
it would be like a foreign language.

Fortunately there has been some awakening and the urge to look within, but the numbers are still relatively few.
Eastern influence has been helpful and there are some that sensed that something was not right and began looking
inward on their own. Hopefully the Awakened, will act as a catalyst and affect the whole.

Namaste
b

[Guish]

The problem is people think that they are what they are doing. Since childhood, we've been trained to think that we need more to be safe or be respected. A better education, a better job, a better salary were the drivers. Like Bazz said, it's a non- ending cycle which just causes suffering because it never ends.

Being awakened also is tough for your loved one's. My wife always thinks that I'll leave them and live as a hermit when I'm older. She's just happy when she sees me emotional or angry from time to time. It's a sign that I might still be normal to her.

The key is achieving a balance. We still need a job to look after our family but we need to know that it's an illusion or a game. Yogananda advised us to play the game with a smile.

With love,
Geerish.

[Ioneo]

Yogananda advised us to play the game with a smile.

And Don Juan said we have to live the 'warrior's folly' Knowing all is illusion but living in the world as if it wasn't.

[sirdipswitch]

I heard a man say that we are, Immortal, that this body is not who we really are.

It changed my life... forever.:wizard:

[Selkie]

"We are so obsessed with doing that we have no time and no imagination left for being. As a result, men are valued not for what they are but for what they do or have .... for their usefulness." Thomas Merton

Sad but true.

When I am painting (doing) I am (being) an artist. It is the act (doing) of painting, itself, which makes me (being) an artist. If I never painted even one painting (doing) could I even say that I am (being) an artist? So perhaps another way to look at it is that it is doing which brings us into being? At least sometimes :whistle:

[Guish]

"We are so obsessed with doing that we have no time and no imagination left for being. As a result, men are valued not for what they are but for what they do or have .... for their usefulness." Thomas Merton

Sad but true.

When I am painting (doing) I am (being) an artist. It is the act (doing) of painting, itself, which makes me (being) an artist. If I never painted even one painting (doing) could I even say that I am (being) an artist? So perhaps another way to look at it is that it is doing which brings us into being? At least sometimes :whistle:

Good point. If you are in the "being" mode, all your actions support your "beingness". However, the OP mentions about doing actions for personal materialistic gain and never realising one's real beingness.

[Selkie]

"We are so obsessed with doing that we have no time and no imagination left for being. As a result, men are valued not for what they are but for what they do or have .... for their usefulness." Thomas Merton

Sad but true.

When I am painting (doing) I am (being) an artist. It is the act (doing) of painting, itself, which makes me (being) an artist. If I never painted even one painting (doing) could I even say that I am (being) an artist? So perhaps another way to look at it is that it is doing which brings us into being? At least sometimes :whistle:

Good point. If you are in the "being" mode, all your actions support your "beingness". However, the OP mentions about doing actions for personal materialistic gain and never realising one's real beingness.

But I wasn't responding to what the OP (what ever that is) said. I was responding to the very first post; the quote from Thomas Merton.

Clarification:

So I looked "OP" up on the internet, and it said it means the "opening poster". Well, nowhere in the OP's post does it say anything about "personal material gain". The poster speaks of "usefulness" which may or may not be associated with "persona gain."

Not only that, but it is known that to be useful in one's life can even make people stay much more happy and healthy into late old age.

Sorry, Thomas Merton's statement needs clarification, or the OP needs to clarify him or herself. Or Thomas Merton's statement is just plain wrong.

[Guish]

In the original post, it says, "People are valued for what they do or have and not for what they are". You had a good point with the doing part. However, when Merton is talking about "having", it's obviously about material gain. It could be identity, social position, job title, money and the list goes on. Anything people boast about having in the society. I have seen a lot of people who have as aim just to get a title next to their name and they do not even explore themselves as people. They just think about what's happening to them and not how they can make things happen for others. It's just my interpretation, friend.

[Selkie]

...I have seen a lot of people who have as aim just to get a title next to their name and they do not even explore themselves as people. They just think about what's happening to them and not how they can make things happen for others. It's just my interpretation, friend.

That sounds really judgmental...defining people as inadequate because they are not living as you think they should live.

So, long story short, I don't think Merton's statement is "so true" at all. I think its a load of crap. What Merton is saying is that he doesn't approve of the values of the people he is referring to. But who is Merton to approve or disapprove of other people's values? Who is anyone to do that?

Should I sit in judgment of your values? If I were ambitious, I might even seek some sort of authority to make you change your behavior to bring it more into line with the values I think you should display, all because I disapprove of the way you live your life. Oh, wait...that's been tried over and over again throughout history, and it never works and it always gets millions of people killed.

[Guish]

...I have seen a lot of people who have as aim just to get a title next to their name and they do not even explore themselves as people. They just think about what's happening to them and not how they can make things happen for others. It's just my interpretation, friend.

That sounds really judgmental...defining people as inadequate because they are not living as you think they should live.

So, long story short, I don't think Merton's statement is "so true" at all. I think its a load of crap. What Merton is saying is that he doesn't approve of the values of the people he is referring to. But who is Merton to approve or disapprove of other people's values? Who is anyone to do that?

Should I sit in judgment of your values? If I were ambitious, I might even seek some sort of authority to make you change your behavior to bring it more into line with the values I think you should display, all because I disapprove of the way you live your life. Oh, wait...that's been tried over and over again throughout history, and it never works and it always gets millions of people killed.


It's an objective observation. I don't have any negative feelings for such people nor do I try to change them. I mention it because I see them suffer and chasing something you'll never attain or be satisfied with will always lead to suffering.

[Selkie]

...I have seen a lot of people who have as aim just to get a title next to their name and they do not even explore themselves as people. They just think about what's happening to them and not how they can make things happen for others. It's just my interpretation, friend.

That sounds really judgmental...defining people as inadequate because they are not living as you think they should live.

So, long story short, I don't think Merton's statement is "so true" at all. I think its a load of crap. What Merton is saying is that he doesn't approve of the values of the people he is referring to. But who is Merton to approve or disapprove of other people's values? Who is anyone to do that?

Should I sit in judgment of your values? If I were ambitious, I might even seek some sort of authority to make you change your behavior to bring it more into line with the values I think you should display, all because I disapprove of the way you live your life. Oh, wait...that's been tried over and over again throughout history, and it never works and it always gets millions of people killed.


It's an objective observation. I don't have any negative feelings for such people nor do I try to change them. I mention it because I see them suffer and chasing something you'll never attain or be satisfied with will always lead to suffering.

That makes all the difference in the world. Thank you! :)

It is a terrible thing to be the target of a do-gooder.

[Guish]

...I have seen a lot of people who have as aim just to get a title next to their name and they do not even explore themselves as people. They just think about what's happening to them and not how they can make things happen for others. It's just my interpretation, friend.

That sounds really judgmental...defining people as inadequate because they are not living as you think they should live.

So, long story short, I don't think Merton's statement is "so true" at all. I think its a load of crap. What Merton is saying is that he doesn't approve of the values of the people he is referring to. But who is Merton to approve or disapprove of other people's values? Who is anyone to do that?

Should I sit in judgment of your values? If I were ambitious, I might even seek some sort of authority to make you change your behavior to bring it more into line with the values I think you should display, all because I disapprove of the way you live your life. Oh, wait...that's been tried over and over again throughout history, and it never works and it always gets millions of people killed.


It's an objective observation. I don't have any negative feelings for such people nor do I try to change them. I mention it because I see them suffer and chasing something you'll never attain or be satisfied with will always lead to suffering.

That makes all the difference in the world. Thank you! :)

It is a terrible thing to be the target of a do-gooder.

That's the difference between religion and spirituality my friend.