Good News about Ukraine ... at last..

[lucidity]

Hello Siblings,

Finally, some good news on this Ukrainian bloodbath.
The Germans are so upset over this Ukrainian crisis
they're basically saying the Americans are lying...
about the involvement of Russian troops, and the size
(and weaponry) of the rebel army.

The Germans are right.
This 'Breedlove' character,... he's a fibber.
You gotta love those Germans :-)

http://rt.com/news/238673-germany-nato-propaganda-ukraine/

But wait, there's more.
Even before the Germans started leaking their disapproval
of the American scheme to kill thousands more Ukrainian
civilians (they call it "sending military assistance")
.. even before that... the EU foreign minister was bluntly saying:
"we wont be pushed into a confrontation over Ukraine"

http://rt.com/news/238681-eu-oppose-confrontation-ukraine/

This is excellent news, because it means that the EU will
not acquiesce to American demands to start a proxy war
with Russia in Ukraine .... which naturally has a severe risk
of turning into the 'ultimate' nuclear war. You know, the
scenario where almost everyone dies.

I think i can predict what is going to happen next.
If the Americans and/or the Israelis try to force this,
then the French will pipe up with their own sets of objections:
characteristically, lots of verbiage and lots of subtle remarks
about American imperialism (which has a danger of going
right over their heads - no disrespect intended ;-) )
But the nett effect would be a Europe solidly against giving
weapons to the nazis in Kiev. Sanity... and not a moment
too soon.

be happy

lucidity :-)

[Carmody]

Your problem is that you hear NONE of this in ANY North American news system.

Zero. Nada.

It's all 'Putin is evil incarnate, Putin is to blame for everything, including the pimples on your dog's ass', on all channels, all the time.

[giovonni]

Give me a break ...

this is total propaganda from russia today.

[Michel Leclerc]

Give me a break ...

this is total propaganda from russia today.

Lucidity has a nice pseudonym, Giovonni.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1wQvfelNQ1M

http://www.spiegel.de/politik/ausland/nato-oberbefehlshaber-philip-breedlove-irritiert-allierte-a-1022242.html

Have a nice day,

Michel

[giovonni]

If i may ...

The only solution is for both the Russian and Nato military(s) to get out of Ukraine ...

Anything less will most probably lead to world disaster ...

Pitting humans against each other is just diversionary tactics folks (period)

My best siblings ... ;)

[Wind]

There is the Russian propaganda and the US one, the truth lies somewhere in the middle.

[Jayren]

This is what they want to happen, NATO cheif says that things are getting worst because Russia has sent more troops in which is most likely a lie, they have always been there just in the part where Russia owns like Crimea I believe? NATO says that while what is actually being reported is that militia troops have actually already pulled back and Ukraine troops are currently in the process of withdrawing there troops. So why would Russia want to send more troops in? Russia knows peace they are working towards that.

Anything that has to do with the American empire or what is stated by there organizations is usually the opposite of what they actually say, they don't want peace until they have everything under there control and things will get ugly for that to happen and we don't want that. Russia knows what they are doing and all the countries that make up the Brics alliance or the ones that will join inevitably. They are leading the way for world peace and we should be thanking them at least some people are standing up to these people on most levels really. Just my thoughts.

[Snowflower]

There is the Russian propaganda and the US one, the truth lies somewhere in the middle.

This is a popular idea in our culture - that the truth lies in the middle between two points of view. But, I suspect it is not true. The truth is not in the middle between the Russian and American perspectives. It is somewhere else, completely outside the parameters of either propaganda campaign.

[Wind]

This is a popular idea in our culture - that the truth lies in the middle between two points of view. But, I suspect it is not true. The truth is not in the middle between the Russian and American perspectives. It is somewhere else, completely outside the parameters of either propaganda campaign.

The truth is out there. I just don't expect to see it in the news, let alone hear it from the politicians.

[lucidity]

There is the Russian propaganda and the US one, the truth lies somewhere in the middle.

This is a popular idea in our culture - that the truth lies in the middle between two points of view. But, I suspect it is not true. The truth is not in the middle between the Russian and American perspectives. It is somewhere else, completely outside the parameters of either propaganda campaign.

Hi snowflower,

Yes, you're right about this.
This assumption that, the truth lies in the middle, is almost always wrong.

Either the 3,000 Palestinians killed during the Israeli attack on the West Bank in 2014
were Hamas fighters or they were civilians. Over 85% of them were women and children.
No actually, they were f*cking civilians.

The germans did just call Breedlove's rhetoric 'Dangerous Propaganda' or they didn't.
No, they just did. It's there for all to see in Der Spiegel.

The American media didn't report that satellite images show that flight MH17 was
downed by a missile coming from the Kiev side of the conflict, or they did.
No, they didn't. Most Americas are completely unaware of this fact.
It was only acknowledged by the fact the media shut up about flight MH17.

There is or there isn't evidence of Russian troops and tanks in Ukraine.
No there isn't. Some MPs from the Ukrainian parliament handed a US senator
a picture of Russian tanks from 2008 in an obvious 'con' trick... but US
aerial surveillance has found no evidence of troop or heavy weaponry
movements into Ukraine.
Has this fact been reported on US media ? No.

There's no 50:50 or 'the truth is in the middle' scenario going on here.

be happy

lucidity :-)

[lucidity]

If i may ...

The only solution is for both the Russian and Nato military(s) to get out of Ukraine ...

Anything less will most probably lead to world disaster ...

Pitting humans against each other is just diversionary tactics folks (period)

My best siblings ... ;)

Hi Giovonni,

There's no Russian military in Ukraine.
There might be some Russian volunteers or mercenaries, but no actual Russian military.
The presence of American mercenaries involved in the fighting has been documented
and the US has started making plans to send at least 300 more.

The USA wants to send weapons to the Poroschenko govt.
Russia has said this is a bad idea and doesn't plan on arming the rebels.

There's no "both sides are as bad as each other" scenario here.
It's the USA that's gunning for a new Ukrainian war and the
Europeans and Russia dont want this.

be happy

lucidity :-)

[giovonni]

If i may ...

The only solution is for both the Russian and Nato military(s) to get out of Ukraine ...

Anything less will most probably lead to world disaster ...

Pitting humans against each other is just diversionary tactics folks (period)

My best siblings ... ;)

Hi Giovonni,

There's no Russian military in Ukraine.
There might be some Russian volunteers or mercenaries, but no actual Russian military.
The presence of American mercenaries involved in the fighting has been documented
and the US has started making plans to send at least 300 more.

The USA wants to send weapons to the Poroschenko govt.
Russia has said this is a bad idea and doesn't plan on arming the rebels.

There's no "both sides are as bad as each other" scenario here.
It's the USA that's gunning for a new Ukrainian war and the
Europeans and Russia dont want this.

be happy

lucidity :-)

That's what i expected was your opinion all along.

Your here on the forum gunning for United States.

Thanks sibling.

[Morbid]

false flag event for germans coming in 4...3...2..._

[Zamolxe]

If i may ...

The only solution is for both the Russian and Nato military(s) to get out of Ukraine ...

Anything less will most probably lead to world disaster ...

Pitting humans against each other is just diversionary tactics folks (period)

My best siblings ... ;)

Hi Giovonni,

There's no Russian military in Ukraine.
There might be some Russian volunteers or mercenaries, but no actual Russian military.
The presence of American mercenaries involved in the fighting has been documented
and the US has started making plans to send at least 300 more.

The USA wants to send weapons to the Poroschenko govt.
Russia has said this is a bad idea and doesn't plan on arming the rebels.

There's no "both sides are as bad as each other" scenario here.
It's the USA that's gunning for a new Ukrainian war and the
Europeans and Russia dont want this.

be happy

lucidity :-)

You seem very passionate about this and it looks like there is no room for debate and your opinion is 100% correct.

Not taking into consideration who is more right in this conflict, do you really believe that there have been no russian troops and no russian equipment in east Ukraine?

To me, blindly believing any side of the propaganda war is just as naive.

Do you remember when the conflict started and the armed rebels appeared all over east Ukraine and Crimea?

Putin admits lies about Russian troops in Crimea: a comparison of statements now and then.
Z8AMsRx2jjY

[Zamolxe]

Also, you are stating as a fact that MH17 was shot down from the west. Is this a fact?


--- Shouldn't these two threads be merged? http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?80492-The-Kremlin-s-Secret-War-Russia-s-Ghost-Army-in-Ukraine ---

[Lifebringer]

Especially after the attempt to smear RT for questioning this lead up to WW3, they've been saying RT was propaganda, but what RT represented was Gen Y questioning the war as well as their leader with all the American media talking zionist warmongering heads, "losing" the headlines of bs cheerleading. After Iraq, could they really think it's just a rumor that the world is waking up to the stench of lies permeating our nations? Really? I see lots and lots of intelligent Y's who actually are on the front lines simply saying;-) "Oh yeah? I don't think so. Worldwide homies don't play that. Can't kill Americans or other humans if the soldiers say, NOT THIS TIME.

Gooooo Humanity, I'm loving it.

[giovonni]

Even the outspoken American Abby Martin has existed RT.

http://www.buzzfeed.com/rosiegray/rt-host-who-criticized-russias-ukraine-invasion-is-leaving-t#.mdXdqMwOm

[Morbid]

Even the outspoken American Abby Martin has existed RT.

http://www.buzzfeed.com/rosiegray/rt-host-who-criticized-russias-ukraine-invasion-is-leaving-t#.mdXdqMwOm

Giovonni. have you actually seen the last episode of the show yourself before making your stong opinion? instead of seeding negativity into this forum why dont you watch it, do thinking for yourself and then build a constructive opinion about the matter. you are letting 'buzzfeed' do the thinking part for you. try to be very careful when making an opinion, then you will always be seen from the most clever angle.

SPOILER:
try to notice amount of LOVE that episode is giving for the audience. she clearly didn't leave on ideological bases like you have been made to assume.

[giovonni]

Even the outspoken American Abby Martin has existed RT.

http://www.buzzfeed.com/rosiegray/rt-host-who-criticized-russias-ukraine-invasion-is-leaving-t#.mdXdqMwOm

Giovonni. have you actually seen the last episode of the show yourself before making your stong opinion? instead of seeding negativity into this forum why dont you watch it, do thinking for yourself and then build a constructive opinion about the matter. you are letting 'buzzfeed' do the thinking part for you. try to be very careful when making an opinion, then you will always be seen from the most clever angle.

SPOILER:
try to notice amount of LOVE that episode is giving for the audience. she clearly didn't leave on ideological bases like you have been made to assume.

Yes i did ...

How am i sending negativity into the forum ...

Because i don't buy into the Russia Today spill ?

Note, she isn't staying cos she loves it there either ... :)

[giovonni]

i note your new here on the forum ...

After 7 years on the Project Avalon Forum ...

Negativity is not what i am known for.

Thanks ... but that one won't work.

[Michael Moewes]

Check out th RT network. It's russian television over the internet and what I find great is, they stick to the truth. Order from Putin.
He said even if I'm doing something wrong, put it out there.
It's good to have some unmonitored news.
Live healthy

[Morbid]

Do you remember when the conflict started and the armed rebels appeared all over east Ukraine and Crimea?


when your family is in danger wouldn't you become an 'armed rebel'?
regarding 'regular russian army troops'. east ukraine never had them there. there were people from all backgrounds crossing the border to protect their relatives or for ideological reasons.. but never the army or private contractors.
crimea had russian military bases stationed there so they didnt have to appear - were only not letting west ukrainian right sector ultras to cause disorder. quite fairly.
imagine romanians in ukraine and moldova getting pressed and lowered to sub human status. would it be fair for mainland romania to give them some sort of protection? i think it would.
well in this conflict its the same old scenario playing up in a quite blatant way. im very impressed by the western disinformation machine that works flawlessly on most. the public is absolutely blind to very obvious situations that are playing up in this world's chessgame. cant you see? ukraine as well as russia are both victims of this conflict..

[giovonni]

If i may ...

The only solution is for both the Russian and Nato military(s) to get out of Ukraine ...

Anything less will most probably lead to world disaster ...

Pitting humans against each other is just diversionary tactics folks (period)

My best siblings ... ;)

My true feelings are with my above post ...

As far as no Russian troops (conscripts) in Ukraine ...

i still don't buy it.

PS ~ i live in the United States and my landlords are from Ukraine ...
Good people, wish there were more of them here in this country.
couldn't ask for better.

[Tesseract]

I want to write about this situation in Ukraine and the Russian aspect, and some other relevant points.

Let me start by looking back to 2008. This is when another former soviet republic, Georgia, attacked South Ossetia. At the time, Georgia and the entire Western media front blamed the violence on S Ossetia and the Russian forces stationed there, saying that they had attacked first. The Russians denied this vehemently but no one would publicly accept this in the west. The attack occurred when the Georgian President was Mikhail Sakashvili, a leader who aspired to have Georgia join NATO. A Georgian political insider (I think a minister, but I don’t recall exactly) made allegations some time previously that Sakashvilli was planning to invade S. Ossetia and had also had certain people killed, so I suppose that person turned out to be correct on at least the first of those allegations.

The current Georgian government is now exposing and bringing to justice some of the former members of Sakashvili’s government (with firm disapproval from the USA). I’ll return to Sakashvili in a moment. Incidentally, the attack on Georgia occurred just one month after a visit to Georgia by Condoleezza Rice. Also incidentally, the US ambassador to Georgia at the time happened to be a man by the name of John Teft. After the S Ossetia operation was over, Teft would become US ambassador to Ukraine.

Over time the truth eventually prevailed, and it is now known and internationally recognised that it was Georgia who started the war by launching an artillery attack and sending in ground troops that was completely disproportionate to any tit-for-tat skirmishes that had historically taken place. It’s also known, thanks to Wikileaks, that the USA knew this all along, and that claims by John Teft at the time were complete lies http://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2010/12/geor-d06.html .

The S Ossetia war coverage is a poignant example of the power and shamelessness of the anti-Russia agenda of the western press. Although in 2008 RT apparently existed, most people had never heard of it (including me). Now that RT is well known, and is a threat to the Western narrative, the Western narrative is compensating by being even more mendacious (moving the in-between) than it was in 2008 (although that is hard to beat). I agree that the ‘truth lies halfway in between’ is a canard of modern political reasoning. It’s easily exploited by moving one ‘side’ so far in one direction that the ‘between’ point that people settle on is still firmly on their side. The exposure, by whomever, of Western lies is indeed good news.

Another fact worth remembering is that once Russia launched its counter-invasion, Georgia was completely militarily defeated in only 6 days, despite the provision of modern arms and training by the USA to Georgia under Sakashilli’s administration. And yet the West would have us believe that there was a large scale Russian invasion of Eastern Ukraine, complete with enormous tank columns and thousands of troops, that, instead of a few days, took months and months and thousands of lives just to secure the defense of Eastern ground against poorly equipped, under-trained, under-fed and demoralised Ukrainian military.

The other thing that bothers me is that the West is so seething with anger about Russia’s position, as if resisting the aggression of a fascist, demagogic and undemocratic Kiev government is somehow wrong. Actually, it isn’t wrong at all. The Western backed forces have twice over-thrown a President elected laregely by the Eastern people. The pro-west citizens had their own President, Yushenko, for years in between, but it was not enough. The extreme elements that orchestrated the coup wanted the permanent political disenfranchisement of the East.

The remarkable thing is, which no one in the west EVER comments on, is that Yanukovych was portrayed as being so demonic that the idea that he was freely elected was meant to be preposterous. Then, after being overthrown in the ‘orange revolution’, the people VOTED FOR HIM AGAIN just a few years later in free and fair elections that were under close international scrutiny. Yes, the people rejected the Western backed figures such as Timoshenko and Yushenko for the one they were all told was a demon. It was a huge slap in the face for the West. Anyway, as we all know Yanukovych was overthrown AGAIN despite popular election, and despite multiple measures to placate those who opposed him, including calling an early election, scrapping possible anti-protest legislation, and deliberately refraining from using the army against the people.

Is it wrong for the people in the East to reject the federal seat of government in Kiev, when the fascists in Kiev make it clear that the East should never be allowed to have a President who represents them? Is it wrong to reject Kiev when Kiev aspired to legally delegitimize the very language that the East speaks? Is it wrong to reject a regime that engages in demagoguery against Russian speakers, who considers them to be inferior citizens? Is it wrong to reject a regime that contains members who publicly relish the fact that those in the east have to live in bunkers to escape the shells of the west? Is it wrong to reject a regime that denies entry of aid (from Germany, not even from Russia) which is urgently needed by hospitals and citizens in the East? Is it wrong to reject a government who does all these things and in addition also sends in tanks, artillery, attack helicopters, bombers, cluster bombs and even ballistic missiles to try and quell those who reject such a regime? Unfortunately in the West the majority of citizens have brains that have been irreparably atrophied by a lifetime of institutionalised brain washing, and therefore many say NO, it is not right to be against such things.

Russia is a country that has military conscription, although there are some exceptions for students and those with health problems. So, the majority of Russian volunteers do have some military experience. Recently a western news agency exposed Eastern rebel recruiting efforts, designed to attract volunteers from Russia. The criticism was that these recruits were not given proper training and were being killed on the battlefield. I wonder why the rebel forces are resorting to recruiting people if the Russian government is sending in so many troops?

What is the extent of Russian involvement? There are surely at the very least intelligence officers there, and there is certainly an acceptance of Russian volunteers crossing the border. The OSCE has indeed observed volunteers, but has not observed any weapons being transported over the border, at least at the Donetsk and Lughansk check points. I don’t think their drone have spotted any of the massive tank columns crossing the border every week that Kiev has told us about. While I don’t believe that completely zero weapons have crossed the border into Ukraine from Russia, I am still waiting for the proof of the massive tank columns, thousands of troops etc. Russia did not care to hide its invasion of Georgia in 2008, why would they try and hide an invasion of Ukraine if they felt it necessary to protect the people there? And why would it be wrong to protect these people from Kiev anyway?

Although the West wants us to exclusively focus on Russian involvement, any discussion of foreigners in Ukraine would not be complete without considering US (and European) involvement. The presence of US mercinaries on foreign soil is considered as essentially an arms export, and can not go ahead without the knowledge and sanction of the US state department. Therefore if there are US private companies operating there then the US government has approved it. CIA are involved naturally enough, in fact the head of the CIA didn’t even hide his visit to Ukraine. The US government is providing satellite imagery of rebel positions so that Kiev forces can better plan their attacks, although there is currently a 24 hr delay. As for the case with Russia, there may be more that we don’t know about.

If you had any doubt about the nature of the regime in Kiev, consider the following. The former President of Georgia, Mikhail Sakashvili, whom I described above, was offered the position of deputy prime minister by Kiev. He declined that, but is now serving as an advisor to the President. Georgia is currently trying to have him extradited, but of course Ukraine won’t hand him over.

In order to minister to American public stupidity, the US media and the politicians have decided to apply the boogie-man brush to Putin. This has burst a few brain cells for the tea party right, who had previously developed some kind of crush on Putin, a bizarre product of their falling for the Putin Machismo media show and their instinctive hatred of Barak Obama. I can’t tell right now if the tea-party right love him or hate him. Regardless, the boogie-man brush is an instrument to turn public opinion to match the agenda of the administration. It is particularly useful to them in times of war, or when they are pushing for war. I actually don’t care much for Vladimir Putin, the person in the Russian government that I do admire is Sergei Lavrov, whom John Kerry is embarrassed to be in the presence of. Lavrov is doing an exceptional job in an extremely difficult environment, standing like a tower of integrity and intelligence among the mendacious conniving rabble of international diplomacy, if that word can even be applied to the circus.

Oh and it’s worth mentioning that John Teft, from Georgia 2008, to Ukraine 2013, is now US ambassador to Russia. But, perhaps he’s safer there than elsewhere. The pattern of economic sanctions, demonization of the leadership is concerning, and I would not be surprised to see efforts aimed at stirring up domestic strife within Russia.

The attacks against RT are intensifying, there is a humorous response on their site to a Guardian anti-RT hit piece that covered the facts that complaints against other broadcasters had been made, noting it was the RT complaint that got blown up into a public spectacle. You can not see a link to an RT web page without a litany of anti-RT rage posted below. As for Abbey Martin, as George Galloway I think it was said, why isn’t anyone quitting on-air from BBC, Fox or CNN? They must all be reputable channels. I’ll keep reading RT as I please, there’s some great information there that other news outlets don’t provide and never will. I might disagree with spin or opinion there from time to time, just as I occasionally do agree with something I read on CNN.

Anyway I’ve managed to keep this short so I’ll stop writing, even though there are some points that have not been made.

[giovonni]

Check out th RT network. It's russian television over the internet and what I find great is, they stick to the truth. Order from Putin.
He said even if I'm doing something wrong, put it out there.
It's good to have some unmonitored news.
Live healthy

Most of Russia Today's (feeds) news items are about other countries ...
Though RT does occasionally post interesting documentaries ...

Tell you what i'd like to see is other outside foreign news agency having better access to inside Russia.

[Flash]

I do not understand part of the fuss about Russian troops in Crimea or not.

Since the Tsar of Russia was there, centuries ago, there has always been russian troops in Crimea. In fact, during the bolchevik era, they built one of their main military base in Crimea (Sebastopol).

When they gave Crimea to Ukraine, in the 1990's (yes, before it was own by Russia), they had an agreement for maintaining their Russian base there with Ukraine.

The troops that were there during the separation of Crimea from Ukraine were already there 100 years ago. They might have had a bit more help from locals, but it is about it.

And the Crimeans must be very happy not to be involved in the Ukrainian civil war at the present time. I would have voted the same, annexing to Russia, in their situation, in order to avoid civil war (50% of them are Russians to start with anyhow).

I do not think Putin is an angel and that Russia is not corrupted, on the contrary, but it would be nice if reporters would get informed before publishing lies too.

[pianoman1954]

Russia and the EU leaders have brokered a peace which is largely holding, at least for the present.

The US response is to announce they are sending arms to Ukraine.

That says it all to me.

Pianoman

[giovonni]

Russia and the EU leaders have brokered a peace which is largely holding, at least for the present.

The US response is to announce they are sending arms to Ukraine.

That says it all to me.

Pianoman

It's always good to follow a statement like the above with some background info ...

Pressure to arm Kiev could increase despite risks: top U.S. diplomat (http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/03/06/us-ukraine-crisis-usa-idUSKBN0M20SY20150306)

[Carmody]

There is the Russian propaganda and the US one, the truth lies somewhere in the middle.

This is a popular idea in our culture - that the truth lies in the middle between two points of view. But, I suspect it is not true. The truth is not in the middle between the Russian and American perspectives. It is somewhere else, completely outside the parameters of either propaganda campaign.

this is why the neocons scream about desiring and demanding things that are humanly impossible. Things that are so extreme that no one could ever deliver them, or understand why anyone would want the given situation to be real. They specifically go out of their way to make insane demands.


In that way of reasoning and acting, no matter the result, everything is shifted in their direction.

The most important thing to understand, is that they are not interested in reason, nor will they pursue reason, nor will they pursue or accept compromise.

[A Voice from the Mountains]

That's what i expected was your opinion all along.

Your here on the forum gunning for United States.

Thanks sibling.

You mean gunning against?

The US has plenty enough guns all over the world already, including mercenaries in the Ukraine, to need lucidity's help. :P


If you think back to the "f___ the EU" controversy, that made the news because of the disrespectful word used by the American official. But what she was talking about, that the Russians recorded and released for all the world to hear, was manipulating Ukranian politics. As a representative of America. Not a Ukrainian.

US politicians have been behind this whole Ukraine mess from the start. I'm an American and I'm proud of a lot of the things my country has accomplished, but this is not one of them. We have to take accountability for criminals when they break the law, or they will be the death of our country.

[A Voice from the Mountains]

Russia and the EU leaders have brokered a peace which is largely holding, at least for the present.

The US response is to announce they are sending arms to Ukraine.

That says it all to me.

That's what happens when we allow psychopathic nut jobs like John McCain into public office.

http://f.tqn.com/y/politicalhumor/1/S/d/O/2/mccain-reptile.jpg


Sometimes when there is a theory that is unprovable, scientists mock it saying that it's "not even wrong," because you can't even test it to begin with. Well these aren't even criminals. They're whack jobs.

[meeradas]

...this is total propaganda from russia today.
http://www.spiegel.de/politik/ausland/nato-oberbefehlshaber-philip-breedlove-irritiert-allierte-a-1022242.html

[This time,] it ain't, Gio.
Though one must wonder how the "Spiegel" has suddenly totally changed sides in this
[being fully pro-US/Nato, and one of the main 'mongers', publishing whatever 'fitting' speculation as fact, until now]:
For better understanding, here is Michel's link to the "Spiegel" article in English (http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/germany-concerned-about-aggressive-nato-stance-on-ukraine-a-1022193.html)

PS: May Breedlove awaken to the meaning of his name, and act accordingly.

[M0JFK]

Give me a break ...

this is total propaganda from russia today.

All depends on who's propaganda you want to believe...ours or theirs.

One thing is for sure WE started the Fascist coup in Kiev to start a proxy war on Russia.

Obviously the Germans and French are not to keen on starting a war for Americas benefit otherwise they wouldn't have tried so hard for a Minsk 2 agreement.

[Carmody]

All they have to do, is start talking truth. Just simple actual truth, from one set of lips.


Someone must start that process. One of them has to take a chance that they will die, and simply start telling the truth.

The lies are too convoluted to hold up as any form of a stack of cards, and the card stack (as it is) is exceedingly vulnerable and ready to fall.

As a matter of fact, we note that all stacks of cards everywhere are in such disarray, that seemingly 99% of the time, we now see lies as the norm in all cases and geopolitical/political situations.


It's been so long since anyone has heard the truth in anything, that it's been years since a given (major) country leader anywhere, can be recalled as having spoken a truth.

Someone at that level must start speaking actual full truth, somewhere.... as the system of lies cannot hold anymore.

The normal solution for being caught in lies this deep is to falseflag into wars, a reset into deeper ignorance, as a cycle....but we're getting too wise for that one to work anymore.

Realistically, Russia is the only (major power) place in the world that I'm aware of, at the moment, who would not (over 50% of the population) hang their leaders, who would not execute their 'democratically' elected top leader.


When these are the sort of things that one can say with a real confidence in being correct, then we're in an area where danger lurks around every single corner, waiting to explode. Waiting for the next lie to be spit from some bastardized "leader's" lips.

Waiting for the falseflag to come along and spark the presaged and planned wars, violence, and mental/physical reset of the masses into a state of ignorance.


Thus the need to educate the public, so they don't fall down the 'animal response' hole, again, for the hundredth time, and burn themselves down again, all in the name of elevating a hidden few.

A reminder that the date of 3/11 (march 11)(ides of march, as a corrected number for the modern calendar/phase?) date on the economist rag cover, is getting close.

[M0JFK]

Most empires often contributed to society but the American empire only offers slaughter.

[Calz]

Listen up peeps ...

For those that don't understand yet ... the illusion of world reality is all bankster driven.

Yes ... it is really that simple ...




http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r-bA9FYB8HY#t=156

[giovonni]

i've never claimed to be always right in my own analysis ...
though i have not been a big fan of RT or Putin ... who am
i to object if those here are ... let's hope this truce sticks.

http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/81492000/jpg/_81492698_81491221.jpg

Ukraine crisis: Poroshenko confirms rebel weapons moved (http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-31806946)

[lucidity]

Also, you are stating as a fact that MH17 was shot down from the west. Is this a fact?


Yes.. i believe so.
It's suspicious that the western media really hasn't covered this story.
However, i notice that it was reported in the British newspapers (though, i'm told, not on UK TV).
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/ukraine/11232683/Russia-says-MH17-was-shot-down-by-plane-missiles.html

be happy

lucidity :-)

[lucidity]

Hello Siblings,

Yet more good news.

Early reports are that Obama has decided _not_ to send weapons
to Kiev. This is reported by rt.com via the comments of a man
with they eye catching name of S_l_u_t_s_k_i_y
(dashes in the name to stop the 'swear bot' from erasing it with ****)

http://rt.com/politics/239233-obama-weapons-ukraine-****skiy/

Let's hope this decision stands the test of time.
However, we're not definitely out of the woods with this.
Earlier this year Poroschenko flew off to UAE to buy weapons.
http://rt.com/news/235043-normandy-quartet-weapons-withdrawal/

Exactly what weapons and how many of them was not disclosed.
But Ukraine is broke, it's massively in debt to both russia and the IMF,
it has no money for weapons... so.. where's the money coming from?

So, although Obama as said no to the open and explicit supply
of weapons America may still be arranging for Kiev to receive
weapons by other means. This is exactly the kind of thing USA
has done in the past for broke African and South American countries.

be happy

lucidity :-)

[Zamolxe]

Also, you are stating as a fact that MH17 was shot down from the west. Is this a fact?


Yes.. i believe so.
It's suspicious that the western media really hasn't covered this story.
However, i notice that it was reported in the British newspapers (though, i'm told, not on UK TV).
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/ukraine/11232683/Russia-says-MH17-was-shot-down-by-plane-missiles.html

be happy

lucidity :-)


Opinions on such important issues shouldn't usually be based only on articles originating from biased media outlets.
Wouldn't that be like building an opinion about 9/11 from an article on CNN?

That photo has already been debunked as fake.

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?77004-Russians-show-Proof-that-MH17-was-Shot-Down-by-Ukrainian-Military-Jet..-&p=901653&viewfull=1#post901653


Russian media isn't exactly a trustworthy source when a story regards them.

I just quickly searched for a list of absurd stories the russian MSM ran just after the crash. It does seem that this article is pro-western (maybe the whole website is), but still, the facts in it are legit.
http://www.ijreview.com/2014/07/159132-top-8-lies-russian-media-telling-malaysian-flight-mh17/

Feel free to debate any of them.

Regarding the statement that it was shot down by cannonfire. The BUK launcher uses radar guided missiles that explode in proximity of the target, spraying it with shrapnel.
https://www.bellingcat.com/news/uk-and-europe/2014/10/11/russian-tv-inadvertently-demonstrates-mh17-wasnt-shot-down-by-aircraft-cannon-fire/