Guardian: German anger over Greek demand for war reparations

[swoods_blue]

GUARDIAN, March 12, 2015: German anger over Greek demand for war reparations (http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/mar/12/german-anger-over-greek-demand-for-war-reparations)

From the article:


Germany has reacted with anger and defiance to Greek government demands for multibillion-euro reparation payments over first and second world war atrocities.

Greece’s justice minister, Nikos Paraskevopoulos, said Athens was prepared to approve a court ruling to seize German property in the country – including the Goethe Institute, the German Archaeological Institute, German schools and holiday homes if Berlin refused to pay €341bn (£240bn) in compensation.

...snip...


The demands stem from a Greek finance ministry report published in December 2014 which calculated on the basis of expert assessment that Germany “owed” Greece €9.2bn for the first world war, €322bn for the second world war and €10bn for money Greece was forced to lend the Nazi regime in 1942.

Well, it looks like, when you elect a government that is not composed of a collection of bank puppets, interesting things happen.

Greece is just reminding Germany that it has some skin in the game.

[lucidity]

Hello Siblings,

I think Greece is playing a clearly rhetorical game here.

The second world war was 70 years ago... 3 generations ago.
What percentage of people alive today remember WWII ?
Presumably, just a few percent ... and mostly these were probably children at the time.
What percentage of people alive today fought in WWII ?
It's a fraction of a percent... and alas, many of them probably don't remember the war.

And mentioning WWI ?
Now we're talking the p*ss.

Will Greece next be asking reparations from Italy given
the Roman conquest of the Greek city states over 2000 years ago ?

On the other hand... banksters will go around loading up impoverished
countries with '_trap_' debt.
Clearly... that's _definitely_ taking the p*ss.

Now Germany is in a trap, because they can't in possibly make
concessions to this.. because Poland, Czechoslovakia, France, Holland,
Russia, ... etc.. all have a better claim to reparations than the Greeks do.

I feel sorry for ordinary German citizens. Most of them had nothing to
do with the war. Most are under 70 years old and have lived with this
perpetual blame game all their lives.

be happy

lucidity :-)

[giovonni]

Does Germany Owe Greece €162bn for WWII ?


Greece has threatened to seize German property as compensation for World War II after Greek Prime Minister Alexis Tsipras blasted Germany for allegedly refusing to settle on the debt related to the damage done to Greece by the Nazi occupation during World War II. In response, Germany’s government said that Greece should focus on its debt crisis now and that past accounts had been straightened out. Does Germany owe Greece anything? We discuss it, in this Lip News clip with Elliot Hill and Mark Sovel.

Published on Mar 13, 2015


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tB__F2QBfkQ

[phillipbbg]

The most interesting observation is how they react when the shoe is put on the other foot... its all well and good when someone else has to pay out on compounded debts created to strip a countries assets but when these officials feel the same collector horde bashing on their door they squeal/bite snarl and get totally angered.... funny that. Now they can remember how it feels before they take hard lines in the future negotiations...

Its amazing how the question is "does Germany owe Greece"?
Well does Greece owe the EU the compounded interest on the original loans?
Ah we live in a BANKERS VARIABLE INTEREST LIMBO with no way out...

Wake up all of us

[Michael Moewes]

This comes from someone whos country made war all over the world. For oil, gold and others. Swood_blue. I'm German, and we have suffered enough to be repeated all the time to the holocoust wich was iniciated by the Rothschilds.
Not enough the the Jews from "Israel" remind Germany every year to never forget. What about Stalin who killed 60 million people. It's enough. our generation has nothing to do with what has happen nearly
70 years ago. so spare me this kind of BS that Germany has skin in the game. Your post really set me up. Have you ever been to europe? do you know greece? do you know their mentality.
Every single greek is trying to doublecross you. they are for the easy way. I know I've been working with them and I've been many times in greece. they have a couple of hunderts billionaires who moved their money out of greece, If they wouldn't be so damn selfish, they all together, could save greece. but this is the problem of the so called democracy, which they invented. everyone on it's own and against all others.


GUARDIAN, March 12, 2015: German anger over Greek demand for war reparations (http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/mar/12/german-anger-over-greek-demand-for-war-reparations)

From the article:


Germany has reacted with anger and defiance to Greek government demands for multibillion-euro reparation payments over first and second world war atrocities.

Greece’s justice minister, Nikos Paraskevopoulos, said Athens was prepared to approve a court ruling to seize German property in the country – including the Goethe Institute, the German Archaeological Institute, German schools and holiday homes if Berlin refused to pay €341bn (£240bn) in compensation.

...snip...


The demands stem from a Greek finance ministry report published in December 2014 which calculated on the basis of expert assessment that Germany “owed” Greece €9.2bn for the first world war, €322bn for the second world war and €10bn for money Greece was forced to lend the Nazi regime in 1942.

Well, it looks like, when you elect a government that is not composed of a collection of bank puppets, interesting things happen.

Greece is just reminding Germany that it has some skin in the game.

[Michael Moewes]

Thanks Lucdity,
You just made it clear.
That's exactly what's happening.
How far should we go back?


Hello Siblings,

I think Greece is playing a clearly rhetorical game here.

The second world war was 70 years ago... 3 generations ago.
What percentage of people alive today remember WWII ?
Presumably, just a few percent ... and mostly these were probably children at the time.
What percentage of people alive today fought in WWII ?
It's a fraction of a percent... and alas, many of them probably don't remember the war.

And mentioning WWI ?
Now we're talking the p*ss.

Will Greece next be asking reparations from Italy given
the Roman conquest of the Greek city states over 2000 years ago ?

On the other hand... banksters will go around loading up impoverished
countries with '_trap_' debt.
Clearly... that's _definitely_ taking the p*ss.

Now Germany is in a trap, because they can't in possibly make
concessions to this.. because Poland, Czechoslovakia, France, Holland,
Russia, ... etc.. all have a better claim to reparations than the Greeks do.

I feel sorry for ordinary German citizens. Most of them had nothing to
do with the war. Most are under 70 years old and have lived with this
perpetual blame game all their lives.

be happy

lucidity :-)

[Agape]

It's not the point , at all ..here we are in presence , the so called EU experiment but you're telling me that we can't pay for our Greek past ?

Maybe we can't , so poor in Spirit we are , capable of damage
like some of our 'jihadi' siblings,
we have damaged more than few ancient libraries already ..

we prefer skyscrapers nowadays .

What would be present Europe without its Greek past when even the word Europe comes from Greek language ?


Maybe we can also do with all those beautiful green olives and oil ..


Isn't it so :confused:

[Poly Hedra]

IT is government against government, not people against people. The Greeks are fighting their way out of a hole and are obviously trying anything possible to not fall in. Come on! They are now playing the same game as Angela Merkel. How can anyone get insulted (here especially) when it comes to governments playing their games? Dont you realise the governments in most countries do not represent their people? Mine included.

[Ioneo]

It seems to be just a desperate bargaining chip in their debt negotiations.

[Poly Hedra]

It seems to be just a desperate bargaining chip in their debt negotiations.

Exactly, they must be desperate.

[Agape]

The question is who pushed them to such desperate corner .

'We' are now inviting Ukraine to join the EU , who will pay for their debts ..

we are now quite a desperados europeans .

:angel:

It will take few more years before we plunge the euro
Italians can print back their Liras and we're basically
at pre-WI economy , with Switzerland typically , on top ..

so yeah before we go bankrupt it's time to stuck your stockings


:nod:;)

[lucidity]

IT is government against government, not people against people. The Greeks are fighting their way out of a hole and are obviously trying anything possible to not fall in. Come on! They are now playing the same game as Angela Merkel. How can anyone get insulted (here especially) when it comes to governments playing their games? Dont you realise the governments in most countries do not represent their people? Mine included.

Hi Poly,

Well said. Nice Ehrman quote too. :-)

[Tesla_WTC_Solution]

Hello Siblings,

I think Greece is playing a clearly rhetorical game here.

The second world war was 70 years ago... 3 generations ago.
What percentage of people alive today remember WWII ?
Presumably, just a few percent ... and mostly these were probably children at the time.
What percentage of people alive today fought in WWII ?
It's a fraction of a percent... and alas, many of them probably don't remember the war.

And mentioning WWI ?
Now we're talking the p*ss.

Will Greece next be asking reparations from Italy given
the Roman conquest of the Greek city states over 2000 years ago ?

On the other hand... banksters will go around loading up impoverished
countries with '_trap_' debt.
Clearly... that's _definitely_ taking the p*ss.

Now Germany is in a trap, because they can't in possibly make
concessions to this.. because Poland, Czechoslovakia, France, Holland,
Russia, ... etc.. all have a better claim to reparations than the Greeks do.

I feel sorry for ordinary German citizens. Most of them had nothing to
do with the war. Most are under 70 years old and have lived with this
perpetual blame game all their lives.

be happy

lucidity :-)

My great-grandfather was injured in that war;
his daughter-in-law's cousin was trapped in a POW camp and starved to emaciation...

great-grandpa had shrapnel in his leg for the rest of his life and died with dementia. The cousin died shortly after of age related complication iirc.

I was about 12 when my great-grandfather died, and had it not been for the lead poisoning, he might have told me some stories about the War.


But because there is so little interest in the stories of disabled veterans we have comments like the above.

I remember the damage caused by the war,
was babysitting a war vet at age 12...

food for thought.

[EdithGibbs]

Maybe if Germany ceased paying their war reparations to Israel a precedent would not exist for Greece to request their funds. I do not think reparations are paid at a whim, there is an International law somewhere on the books. If this were not the case why would anybody pay any country. I do not know much about this except that Germany pays Israel reparations. I would like to know. Anybody? It seems to me that the Greek government s are smart negotiators.

[poetbil]

Hello Siblings,

I think Greece is playing a clearly rhetorical game here.

The second world war was 70 years ago... 3 generations ago.
What percentage of people alive today remember WWII ?
Presumably, just a few percent ... and mostly these were probably children at the time.
What percentage of people alive today fought in WWII ?
It's a fraction of a percent... and alas, many of them probably don't remember the war.

And mentioning WWI ?
Now we're talking the p*ss.

Will Greece next be asking reparations from Italy given
the Roman conquest of the Greek city states over 2000 years ago ?

On the other hand... banksters will go around loading up impoverished
countries with '_trap_' debt.
Clearly... that's _definitely_ taking the p*ss.

Now Germany is in a trap, because they can't in possibly make
concessions to this.. because Poland, Czechoslovakia, France, Holland,
Russia, ... etc.. all have a better claim to reparations than the Greeks do.

I feel sorry for ordinary German citizens. Most of them had nothing to
do with the war. Most are under 70 years old and have lived with this
perpetual blame game all their lives.

be happy

lucidity :-)
Well my friend ,70 years is N O T.as long time as you think
We just completed a debt ,before 5 years that was a loan from 1912 or older
The amount of the Nazi "loan",is now approximately,300billion€
Would you renounce it if it concerned YOUR COUNTRY ?

[A Voice from the Mountains]

This comes from someone whos country made war all over the world. For oil, gold and others. Swood_blue. I'm German, and we have suffered enough to be repeated all the time to the holocoust wich was iniciated by the Rothschilds.
Not enough the the Jews from "Israel" remind Germany every year to never forget. What about Stalin who killed 60 million people. It's enough. our generation has nothing to do with what has happen nearly
70 years ago.

I understand what you mean, and I agree with you. But as others have point out, Greece is making a political point.

Germany may have been set up for what happened during WW2, but Greece has also been set up for what is happening to it now, and Germany is once again leading the EU's efforts to strip Greece of its assets and force its citizens into "austerity." So this new Greek regime, by demanding these things from the German government, is playing hardball.

The German government needs serious reform, as does the US government, and the governments of most western nations who are puppets to hidden power structures. I say good for Greece, and I hope they continue to push back hard.

[Michael Moewes]

This will never happen, because Israel will never forgive Germany. but they shouldn't blame Germany but the Rothschilds, who where behind this genocide all the time.


Maybe if Germany ceased paying their war reparations to Israel a precedent would not exist for Greece to request their funds. I do not think reparations are paid at a whim, there is an International law somewhere on the books. If this were not the case why would anybody pay any country. I do not know much about this except that Germany pays Israel reparations. I would like to know. Anybody? It seems to me that the Greek government s are smart negotiators.

[christian]

Tsipras is doing his country a disservice. While reparations might not have been paid in full, it's now a minor issue, charged with low-tone emotions. Bringing that up couldn't solve anything financially, it just stirs up animosities. That's a poor move. Looking at all the factors that contribute to the mess that Greece is in, I'd place central banking and government spending at the top.

I've been to Greece last year and had mixed experiences. Some people would take advantage of me, some were among the nicest and most hospitable folks I ever encountered. People are people everywhere, I guess.

[Snoweagle]

This is not about Germany versus Greece in any European relationship, rather the Banking Elite in Switzerland using their patsy, Germany, to be the vehicle of fiscal austerity impacting Nation states.

Europe (the world) is governed by Judaic Freemasonry, not governments nor banks. The head of the snake is Switzerland.

Greece must follow the lead set by Iceland. Greece IMO has every right to claim for FULL reparations and indeed a detailed and minute investigation into secret fiscal dealings in the past.

It is disgraceful that commentary exists here to "attack" the people in some kind of derogatory manner, implying "they deserve it" mentality. That is not the issue here. The issue is the Banking Elite are working hard to disavow humanity any prospective growth.

Greek reparations have my full support. Remember Thermopylae, go Greece go.

[swoods_blue]

This comes from someone whos country made war all over the world. For oil, gold and others. Swood_blue. I'm German, and we have suffered enough to be repeated all the time to the holocoust wich was iniciated by the Rothschilds.
Not enough the the Jews from "Israel" remind Germany every year to never forget. What about Stalin who killed 60 million people. It's enough. our generation has nothing to do with what has happen nearly
70 years ago.

I understand what you mean, and I agree with you. But as others have point out, Greece is making a political point.

Germany may have been set up for what happened during WW2, but Greece has also been set up for what is happening to it now, and Germany is once again leading the EU's efforts to strip Greece of its assets and force its citizens into "austerity." So this new Greek regime, by demanding these things from the German government, is playing hardball.

The German government needs serious reform, as does the US government, and the governments of most western nations who are puppets to hidden power structures. I say good for Greece, and I hope they continue to push back hard.

Yes, exactly. The point Greece is making is that you can't conveniently call in some debts, and not others. And that Germany also has unsettled debts in its past. World War II may have ended long ago, and Germany may have paid a high price overall for its role. But in the postwar settling of affairs, it may be that the German government's debt to Greece was never accounted for.

From Greece's perspetive, they object to being made a pawn. It may be no big deal to us, or to the governments of Germany or the U.S., if Greece is forced into perpetual austerity to try to repay debts it cannot repay. But it IS a big deal to Greece.

They are fighting against the use of debt as a tool of enslavement.

¤=[Post Update]=¤


Tsipras is doing his country a disservice. While reparations might not have been paid in full, it's now a minor issue, charged with low-tone emotions. Bringing that up couldn't solve anything financially, it just stirs up animosities. That's a poor move. Looking at all the factors that contribute to the mess that Greece is in, I'd place central banking and government spending at the top.

I've been to Greece last year and had mixed experiences. Some people would take advantage of me, some were among the nicest and most hospitable folks I ever encountered. People are people everywhere, I guess.

Yeah, I disagree. It's not about feelings. It's about leverage.

[Michael Moewes]

Don't get me started swoods_blue. What your country has done all over the planet. You robbed all our industry after WW2 and built it up in the US. you've left Germany bold naked. And when you are asked to pay reparations to the 50+ countries in the world you invaded and robbed for oil etc. You'll pay for the next 2000 years. Stop blaming Germany, for crying out loud, this happens 70+ years ago due t a crazy austrian who was part of the iluminati and a jew. He just found a fertil ground in Germany because off all the punishment oppressed on Germany after WW1 from the Usa and the others.

We better stop right here.

[christian]

The issue is central banking and government spending, that's the same for all countries. It's the people vs bankers and governments. As soon as you shift attention towards nation vs nation, as Tsipras does, you're continuing the old paradigm game. Of course, governments all over the world do that, so the new Greek government is really no different from all the others in that sense. Varoufakis, Secretary of Treasury, just said it's his highest goal to create a United States of Europe (http://www.spiegel.de/kultur/gesellschaft/giannis-varoufakis-bei-guenther-jauch-der-griechische-stinkefinger-a-1023677.html). Syriza were elected as eurosceptics, now they come up with that. Nothing new here, I guess, election promises, the same old story…

[swoods_blue]

Don't get me started swoods_blue. What your country has done all over the planet. You robbed all our industry after WW2 and built it up in the US. you've left Germany bold naked. And when you are asked to pay reparations to the 50+ countries in the world you invaded and robbed for oil etc. You'll pay for the next 2000 years. Stop blaming Germany, for crying out loud, this happens 70+ years ago due t a crazy austrian who was part of the iluminati and a jew. He just found a fertil ground in Germany because off all the punishment oppressed on Germany after WW1 from the Usa and the others.

We better stop right here.

Michael,

I don't think you're reading me correctly here. The present-day issue is that Greece is attempting to deal with a debt burden it truly cannot afford to bear. The EU central bankers, led by German government, are imposing austerity measures on the country, with the threat of default hanging over Greece. In an attempt to repay its principal and interest, Greek governments have cut government services and social welfare very, very deeply, and that has really dried up economic activity there and deeply hurt regular people. This loss of economic stimulus further cripples Greece's ability to repay.

Greece has elected a new, populist government, which seems to have no obligations politically to the big banks. And unlike their predecessors, they are willing to dig up WWII-related debts to try to balance the scales. Their point, if you have missed it, is that by forgoing reparations due to them decades ago, Greeks helped provide Germany with the ability to rebuild itself when that was needed. It's using the terms of the central bankers' own game as leverage against the claims being made on the people of Greece.

Do not think I will defend the pro-corporate actions of past U.S. administrations -- I won't. And I resent their use of American boys as the muscle in their games of profit.

I would urge you to stop looking this issue through the lens of nationalism, and start looking at it as a fight between central banks, which would use debt enslavement to control a country full of people, and the people of that country trying to fight back.

Christian, in Post #22, hits the nail on the head in that respect. However, we need to recognize that Tsipras is not the problem here -- he is doing what he can in the situation he (and his nation) are in. And we need to recognize that unlike the central banks, he has the legitimacy of widespread popular support.

[Michael Moewes]

I love greece and the people.
But, Greece is an example how democracy is turning sick.
They have too many civil servants and they don't charge their billionaires.
A couple of years back it came out that 98% of the widdowed people never had declared the passing of their spouse. so that they betrayed from the governement millions of euros over a period of 15 years. the greek mentality is different.
What they should do, and all the european countries is to jail all the bankers and pass the sponge.
Restart by zero. but this is just me dreaming of a brighter future.
Live healthy and leave the dead where they belong. live in the here and now, let the past passing away and hope for the future(which doesn't exist) as there will allways be only this moment.



Don't get me started swoods_blue. What your country has done all over the planet. You robbed all our industry after WW2 and built it up in the US. you've left Germany bold naked. And when you are asked to pay reparations to the 50+ countries in the world you invaded and robbed for oil etc. You'll pay for the next 2000 years. Stop blaming Germany, for crying out loud, this happens 70+ years ago due t a crazy austrian who was part of the iluminati and a jew. He just found a fertil ground in Germany because off all the punishment oppressed on Germany after WW1 from the Usa and the others.

We better stop right here.

Michael,

I don't think you're reading me correctly here. The present-day issue is that Greece is attempting to deal with a debt burden it truly cannot afford to bear. The EU central bankers, led by German government, are imposing austerity measures on the country, with the threat of default hanging over Greece. In an attempt to repay its principal and interest, Greek governments have cut government services and social welfare very, very deeply, and that has really dried up economic activity there and deeply hurt regular people. This loss of economic stimulus further cripples Greece's ability to repay.

Greece has elected a new, populist government, which seems to have no obligations politically to the big banks. And unlike their predecessors, they are willing to dig up WWII-related debts to try to balance the scales. Their point, if you have missed it, is that by forgoing reparations due to them decades ago, Greeks helped provide Germany with the ability to rebuild itself when that was needed. It's using the terms of the central bankers' own game as leverage against the claims being made on the people of Greece.

Do not think I will defend the pro-corporate actions of past U.S. administrations -- I won't. And I resent their use of American boys as the muscle in their games of profit.

I would urge you to stop looking this issue through the lens of nationalism, and start looking at it as a fight between central banks, which would use debt enslavement to control a country full of people, and the people of that country trying to fight back.

Christian, in Post #22, hits the nail on the head in that respect. However, we need to recognize that Tsipras is not the problem here -- he is doing what he can in the situation he (and his nation) are in. And we need to recognize that unlike the central banks, he has the legitimacy of widespread popular support.

[soleil]

an interesting concept i read about is, if greece does do this, whose to stop iraq etc etc etc etc from suing usa for their wars?

[Carmody]

we do have to remember that this is all fake non-existent money as an agreed upon valuation system.... which has no basis in any known form of reality, outside of that of a child playing with dolls and drinking non-existent tea from non-existent cups.

They expect real life, real death, real suffering, real war, and real blood...... for a fake dollar, a fake financing.

Always remember that.

Greece accepted false money and handled it poorly, via false leadership and it is now expected that the people of Greece pay for their corrupt and incorrect leadership - of days past.

They are expected to pay back non delivered non real money with more real suffering to return non existent money. Ie, real loss for fake money.

Greece should blow them off and go work with Russia and China.

it is something that needs be done, the message of carnage and brutality... for fake non existent..self created world values ...this message from the Babylonian money creators--going back over 7000 years.... this garbage, this infiltration.... finally needs to be shed from humanity.

Greece should start that process. If they had any sense to/of/in them at all, they would. They hold the lever in their hands, so strike, dammit, and get on with it.

In the same exact moment, Germany should reject this delivery of new military vehicles from the US. That is part and parcel of the problem. The USA is forcing US military presence INTO the heart of Germany, and we can guess why.

[Maia Gabrial]

The demands stem from a Greek finance ministry report published in December 2014 which calculated on the basis of expert assessment that Germany “owed” Greece €9.2bn for the first world war, €322bn for the second world war and €10bn for money Greece was forced to lend the Nazi regime in 1942.

Isn't this what the jews have been doing to Germany, too? Most of the jews are gone now, but Israel wants the free money to keep rolling in forever. And when the truth comes fully out, everyone will see that it was the Rothschilds who sacrificed their own people to the Nazi cause, so that they could steal Palestine and create Israel. Btw, God said they were not allowed to have their own country....

Oh hey, let's not forget that they get billions of dollars every year from Americans, too. Damn....

Maybe if aggressive countries knew at the start of a war that they would have to pay out of their noses for attacking other countries, they may think many times over whether it would be worth it or not....

I'm sick of wars....