Where Did the Planes Go? (Rebekah Roth exposes another piece of the 9/11 puzzle)

[ThePythonicCow]

In honor of Judy Wood's epoch book Where Did the Towers Go? (http://amzn.com/0615412564 ) (short answer - they were dustified), I entitle this thread "Where Did the Planes Go?".

This thread is focused on Rebekah Roth's recently released Methodical Illusion (http://amzn.com/0982757131 ), a novel with a lot of truth in it. The first edition was published in November 2014, and the second edition is just out, in March 2015, with some corrections and an added short appendix, commenting on the response to the first edition.

Short answer - the "hijacked 9/11 planes" landed at Westover Air Reserve Base (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Westover_Air_Reserve_Base), in Massachusetts, US. That base has the longest runway, over 2 miles long, in the eastern US.

Landing a commercial airliner loaded with fuel is not easy; usually the fuel is burnt off first as such planes are not designed to land with that much weight. So a long runway really helps if you have to get a fuel heavy plane down quickly.

A couple of passengers or flight attendants from each of the four "hijacked" planes on 9/11 (of 2001) called to various airline offices or relatives, from their cell phones, while claiming to be in the air, shortly before "impact", to explain that "Middle Eastern" men (or a singular man) had hijacked the plane.

Just the phrase "Middle Eastern" was most likely scripted, as not even someone who (such as Rebekah Roth) had spent 30 years traveling the world could look at a typical person from perhaps Mexico, southern Europe, the Middle East, Israel, or Iran and know by looks which of those places they were from. That phrase, "Middle Eastern", was an essential piece of the mass propaganda that 9/11 was designed to put in the public mind.

These calls were an essential piece of the puzzle of 9/11. We Americans had to know who to blame, and without those calls, we would have had no way of "knowing" that (supposedly) Middle Eastern men hijacked each plane with box cutters.

But those cell phone calls could not have come from planes at altitude, and the flight attendants who called in did not come even close to following the detailed emergency procedures for which they had all trained in the event of a hijacking.

So the planes must have been on the ground when the calls were made, and the flight attendants were somehow being told what to say, not actually following in-flight emergency hijacking procedures.

Westover would have been the ideal place to land those planes, before getting select passengers or crew to make those essential phone calls, and then taking the crew and passengers off to meet their fate.

The timing for each flight, from when it did take off, until when the cell phone calls were made works out, giving time for (1) the planes to fly to Westover, (2) the planes to land, and (3) the chosen callers to be handed their script and briefed on the "exercise" and who to call and what to say.

Westover is (with "official" end points of each flight in parentheses):

80 miles west of Logan airport, the origin of Flights 11 (North tower) and 175 (South tower),
130 miles northeast of Newark Airport, the origin of Flight 93 (crashed in Pennsylvania), and
330 miles northeast of Dulles Airport, the origin of Flight 77 (Pentagon).

All four flights were cross country flights, from the above east coast airports to airports in California (Flight 93 to San Francisco and the rest to Los Angeles). So they would have had a lot of fuel on board if they landed prior to the alleged cell phone calls being made.

According to the (perhaps fictional, but see my Post #5 (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?80910-Where-Did-the-Planes-Go--Rebekah-Roth-exposes-another-piece-of-the-9-11-puzzle-&p=945372&viewfull=1#post945372), below) details in Rebekah Roth's novel, Westover was closed that day, and the few Air Force Reserve military units who normally might have been there were told to stay home that week. By many publicly visible accounts, Westover has huge hangers, as it is the major C-5A (largest US military supply plane) base in the eastern US. Such hangers could easily hide a few commercial passenger planes.

The Israeli controlled Promis software had been installed on all the key FAA (civilian air control) and NORAD (military air control) systems, enabling behind the scenes operatives to control what painted on each of their radars - making real planes disappear and fake planes appear, confusing everyone involved.

Flight Termination Software (FTS) and equipment had been installed on all the planes involved, enabling behind the scenes operatives to totally take control of the planes, and to totally cut off the pilots from all communication, even with the attendants in the cabin, and from all control of their aircraft. The FTS software was sold as a means to land a hijacked passenger plane safely, regardless of what the hijackers did, short of blowing the plane up in the air. But it was also the ultimate hijacking tool, in the right (wrong) hands.

Rebekah Roth was a flight attendant and flight crew chief (pursor) for almost thirty years, and knows how things are done, and the procedures they practice, quite well. She is intelligent and articulate, and has solved another critical piece of the 9/11 puzzle.

Thank-you, Rebekah.

Others have already posted Rebekah Roth's material and some of her recent interviews on Avalon:

WTC 9/11 Building 7 – Clearly Detonated – See Footage of Explosions -- Post #29 (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?79470-WTC-9-11-Building-7----Clearly-Detonated----See-Footage-of-Explosions&p=929019&viewfull=1#post929019)
WTC 9/11 Building 7 – Clearly Detonated – See Footage of Explosions -- Post #31 (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?79470-WTC-9-11-Building-7----Clearly-Detonated----See-Footage-of-Explosions&p=929095&viewfull=1#post929095)
Re: Up At The Ranch And Beyond -- Post #14173 (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?3596-Up-At-The-Ranch-And-Beyond&p=936503&viewfull=1#post936503)
The Continuing Search For The Truth -- Post #1070 (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?1383-The-Continuing-Search-For-The-Truth&p=936913&viewfull=1#post936913)
Rebekah Roth | Methodical Illusion-Missing Pieces of 9-11 -- Post #1 (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?80218-Rebekah-Roth-Methodical-Illusion-Missing-Pieces-of-9-11-OffPlanet-Radio-with-Randy-Maugans&p=936916&viewfull=1#post936916)
Up At The Ranch And Beyond -- Post #14583 (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?3596-Up-At-The-Ranch-And-Beyond&p=944696&viewfull=1#post944696)
There are some excellent interviews of Rebekah Roth in the above posts. I recommend listening to at least one or two of them. Thank-you, Hervé, Cidersomerset, Star Tsar, Helvetic, and giovonni, for these fine posts and threads.

Here's another well done interview of Rebekah Roth, which I haven't seen posted on the forum before:


http://s52.podbean.com/pb/b324b1dae92f5118f7078fc048fe0ece/550ef38e/data2/blogs60/722245/uploads/bevrebeka.mp3
Source: http://mediabroadcastingcenter.podbean.com/e/911-talks-ep-50-with-special-guest-rebekah-roth-mp3/

Here's a link to Westover on Google Maps: https://maps.google.com/maps?ll=42.18096,-72.516289&spn=0.136746,0.306759

The Youtuber Patriot Wing is apparently stationed there now, and has been posting videos of current activity at Westover for the last few years. See for example this video showing Westover from the air and on the ground, as of October and November of 2013: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V0tuXaB10CU.

Rebekah Roth has put another nail in the coffin of the official 9/11 story.

I read Rebekah Roth's Methodical Illusion (http://amzn.com/0982757131 ) yesterday on Kindle. The paperback edition is "out of stock" on Amazon, even though it's currently listed as #1 Best Seller in Amazon's Historical Fiction section (http://www.amazon.com/gp/bestsellers/books/7421476011/ref=zg_b_bs_7421476011_1), perhaps because they are restocking with the second edition. It's a quick read - just a few hours if you're a fast reader. She might not be a world class novel writer, but it's a page turner, and she's a quite capable writer.

[Cidersomerset]

9/11 Methodical Illusion -Airline Flight Attendant Reveals What Really Happened On 9/11

bWYR1uXBPq4

Published on 7 Feb 2015

Dan Bidondi interviews Former Airline Flight Attendant Rebekah Roth who is now a
Author of "Methodical Illusion" a book that reveals untold information never told
before about the Government False Flag attack on September 11th, 2001

[Cidersomerset]

Its good to hear from the perspective of the fight attendants who would/should
of had a pivotal role in any hijacking particularly if they had a chance to
communicate with the outside world. ( Which is very suspect ). According to
their emergency anti hijack training and protocols. Apart from all the other
oddities , coincidences , military drills and motives to get the US into
warfare for the forseable future.....



Hagmann & Hagmann - 30 Jan 2015 - Rebekah Roth - The Methodical Illusion of 9/11

85jbOSKTeFU

[Cidersomerset]

No probs.......plenty to listen to

2WENF2txFHk

[ThePythonicCow]

2WENF2txFHk
Good one !

In this interview of Rebekah Roth, granted 30 Jan 2015, she states, at 4 minutes into the video (https://youtu.be/2WENF2txFHk?t=4m3s), that she has just been contacted by someone who was there, at the Westover Air Reserve Base (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Westover_Air_Reserve_Base), on the day of 9/11, 2001, and who confirms that the base was on total lock down, and who confirms that Rebekah Roth had totally figured it out.

[indigopete]

I heard Rebekah interviewed on Red Ice the other day - awesome.

One of the most significant new perspectives on everything for years IMO.

http://www.redicecreations.com/radio/2015/03/RIR-150318.php

[ThePythonicCow]

Three months ago, on the PilotsFor911Truth.org thread "Methodical Illusion---Rebekah Roth" (http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/index.php?showtopic=22830), a blogger named mainer posted an excellent synopsis of what Rebecca Roth is saying:

========



A week or so ago I ran into a reference to a week-long series of interviews last month with Rebekah Roth, a retired international flight attendant and purser (head flight attendant). She has written a book called "Methodical Illusion"

http://www.methodicalillusion.com/
http://www.amazon.com/dp/0982757131/

I had a chance, given a sudden load of work related to house-painting, to listen to the interviews (playable or downloadable from the links below). The guys running the show are not what I'd call the highest caliber hosts, and there's a lot of informality, but Ms. Roth is very good, and what she had to say riveted me.

After she retired after 30 years as a flight attendant, she started writing a novel to tell about life in the skies. In the process, she did a web search to come up with a Middle Eastern name for one of the characters, and ran across references to a large proportion of the alleged 9/11 hijackers still being alive. It apparently changed her life, leading her ever deeper into the proverbial 9/11 rabbit hole.

Her perspective is unique in the world of 9/11 research. She comes at it from the point of view of a person intimately familiar with the way the airline industry runs at the level of what goes on in flights.

On 9/11, she'd been grounded along with the other thousands of airline personnel, and spent a lot of time watching the whole thing on TV. She had hit her first level of cognitive dissonance (she seems to call it "cognitive dissidence") when she saw the second plane hit. She thought maybe it was trick photography -- a plane made of thin aluminum shouldn't have pierced the heavy steel perimeter columns. But she suppressed this -- being in the air all the time made thinking about the implications too difficult. And she stayed that way until that fateful web search for a name.

Since then, she has run into all the "usual" information those of us involved in 9/11-related work have become familiar with, and has incorporated it into her novel. But her perspective is radically different from the rest of us.

She knew that cellphone calls couldn't possibly have been made from the planes as described, and knew intimately the practical limitations of on-board seat-back phones, so all the claims about these calls made no sense to her.

Most of us have concluded that the calls were done with some kind of voice-morphing and caller-id-spoofing technology. The calmness of most of the callers and the absence of any cabin noise were always problematic. But while the rest of us couldn't come up with an alternative, she has.

In the interviews, she lays out an excellent detailed analysis of every call -- particularly NY flights 11 & 175 in interview 3 and flights 77 & 93 in interview 4. She looks at the FAA records of the alleged movements of the planes, zeroing in on the times the calls were made, most of which were made when planes were supposedly descending so rapidly all kinds of things would have been going on that weren't happening in the calls. Her knowledge of the layout, procedures and practicality of 767s and 757s -- their length and width, who was sitting where, who could or couldn't have seen what they were describing, how quickly mace or perfumes would fill the entire plane, etc. -- opens up a whole new window into those calls.

She also goes into detail on the "Flight Termination" technology available at the time -- ironically intended to prevent hijackings -- by which a ground controller could take complete control and communication ability away from the crew. She believes that there were no hijackings and that the flight termination mechanism was used.

Her remarkable conclusion is that the calls were made on the ground, that all four planes were on the ground shortly after they took off, and at least one was in a hangar (a caller referred to a man "coming down the stairs"). The final blockbuster for her turned up in a recording of Flight 93 attendant C.C. Lyles. At the very end, a woman's voice says very quietly something like "that was very good." The frequency of certain specific phrases among all the calls imply to her that people were reading from scripts, and she infers from this that they were probably told they were participating in a drill (we all know there were many exercises going on that morning).

From the timing of the calls, she determined how far the planes could have reached from their point of origin, and then figured out where they had to have landed. I haven't yet received my shipment of the book, so I don't know her location proposal yet, but expect it will be interesting.

The inescapable conclusion is that the passengers and flight crew are indeed dead, but were killed in some other way than a plane crash. The thought is extremely disquieting, but pales by comparison with the deliberate murders of all the other people who died on and after 9/11 as a result of the event.*

Also interesting will be getting more detail on something else she claims to have run into -- references to the next big event, which will be taking place in many cities sometime next May.

She also is very well-informed on the financial aspects of 9/11 -- the movement of massive amounts of gold out of the World Trade Center, the destruction of the $240 billion in "Brady Bonds," the insurance fraud. And she provides the evidence that has convinced her that Israel was one of the main players on that day.

If you have the time or interest, the interviews are one of the more interesting ways you might spend time.

========

[Harley]

Hi Paul,

Would like some clarification on this comment as it is something I've been piecing together over the past several years:


Also interesting will be getting more detail on something else she claims to have run into -- references to the next big event, which will be taking place in many cities sometime next May.

My question: Is that referring to this year or next year?

Thanks

*** Post Update ***

Found this:

During the anniversary of Osama Bin Laden's (supposed) death by the Navy Seals, from May 2nd for 9 days until May 11 (notice the 9-11), 5 or 6 major cities in the United states will be hit with a combination of Biological, Chemical, and/or Nuclear weapons.

No mention of year.

[ThePythonicCow]

Hi Paul,

Would like some clarification on this comment as it is something I've been piecing together over the past several years:


Also interesting will be getting more detail on something else she claims to have run into -- references to the next big event, which will be taking place in many cities sometime next May.

My question: Is that referring to this year or next year?
That quote of "mainer" (from his synopsis of Rebekah) would be from December 2014, so he would be referring to May 2015.

[ThePythonicCow]

Near the end of her "Methodical Illusions" book, she has a character (Attorney General Rathburn, speaking to the President) say:

This explains some things that were making no sense to the FBI, there have been several troubling incongruencies in our intelligence that we could not fully explain. Based on what I heard on the tape, I believe now they will most likely strike, Las Vegas, Houston, Chicago, San Francisco, Billings and right here in D.C. Our intelligence made no sense to me until hearing this tape. Now, I believe Las Vegas quite possbily could be targeted for some type of nuclear detonation. Houston oil refineries and pipelines are in danger of conventional explosives that will affect domestic oil supplies and national reserves. Chicago, quite possibly, is where they intend to launch a biological weapon, most likely in a large shopping mall. Much like the symbolic World Trade Center shopping towers, San Francisco is in danger of losing the iconic Golden Gate Bridge. Billings, Montana quite possibly will be the target of a chemical agent to prove to Americans that even small towns are no longer safe. And D.C.'s primary target is you, sir. These attacks, I believe, are set to happen in short succession, with one or possibly two days between each event. By the end of a nine day period fear will reign and the country will be in total chaos. It appears that the grand finale will be your assassination, Mr. President. Someone or several people in this town are most likely very deeply involved with this cabal and its destructive agenda.
The "tape" referred to is a secretly recorded rant by a high level Israelie that ended up being listened to by the President and his more trusted advisors. The "President" was not Obama, but a patriotic, Constitution respecting, man who had replaced him, after an earlier impeachment in the book, during 2014.

Some of the above is (and I hope remains) fiction :).

[Harley]

Paul, I'm having a little intuitive feeling that this part of the story in this thread may possibly be connected to Jade Helm 15 story in the realistic military training slated for 7 states (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?80850-realistic-military-training-slated-for-7-states&p=945582#top) thread.

[Debra]

Thanks Paul for bringing this well organised package of material together. I am going to now listen to these interviews and read much more.

My question at this juncture is, how come Rebecca Roth has managed to stay unharmed through bringing this research into the main? Max Igan always reminds me to ask this of any source that brings information to light. Why has Rebecca been 'allowed' to continue bringing her findings 'out' ? For what purpose? Who benefits?

Cheers
Debra

[ThePythonicCow]

Paul, I'm having a little intuitive feeling that this part of the story in this thread may possibly be connected to Jade Helm 15 story in the realistic military training slated for 7 states (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?80850-realistic-military-training-slated-for-7-states&p=945582#top) thread.

My intuition on that training exercise is that it's yet another example of over-hyping the routine (while what we should really be worried about continues onward, obscured from our clear view.)

[ThePythonicCow]

My question at this juncture is, how come Rebecca Roth has managed to stay unharmed through bringing this research into the main? Max Igan always reminds me to ask this of any source that brings information to light. Why has Rebecca been 'allowed' to continue bringing her findings 'out' ? For what purpose? Who benefits?
She came on the scene rapidly, with a first edition novel that she avoided even allowing someone else to edit. She did her best to stay below the radar until then. Subsequently, all she's done is to make the interview rounds, as quickly as she could, discussing her book.

Only if she really has something serious, still in the works and yet unpublished, would I expect her life is in serious danger. But she's ready if that comes, cracking jokes about drone strikes.

The ones at greatest risk seem, to me, to be those who (1) get on a watch list for publicizing one thing, (2) get a name for themselves, so that what they said is widely seen and given some credibility, and then (3) are seen, by the secret surveillance, to have something further to release that simply cannot be allowed out.

P.S. -- also at risk, those who know too much, and are known to know too much, and let it become visible that they are planning to "spill the beans", and those who are acquiring too much power, but who are out "out of control".

[Harley]

My intuition on that training exercise is that it's yet another example of over-hyping the routine (while what we should really be worried about continues onward, obscured from our clear view.)

I would normally agree with this statement Paul, except for one thing:

This particular exercise, of this size and magnitude, is far from "routine".


Thanks Paul for bringing this well organised package of material together. I am going to now listen to these interviews and read much more.

My question at this juncture is, how come Rebecca Roth has managed to stay unharmed through bringing this research into the main? Max Igan always reminds me to ask this of any source that brings information to light. Why has Rebecca been 'allowed' to continue bringing her findings 'out' ? For what purpose? Who benefits?

Cheers
Debra

If I may, Paul

Hi Debra,

The reason why is because, although she is an insider with experience, she is not (as far as I've seen) presenting any hard/incriminating evidence in the way of official documents, photos/videos, audio recordings, etc along with her testimony.

Compare her case to, oh let's say Chelsea (Bradley) Manning, Edward Snowden , or even Julian Assange and you'll understand better what I mean.

An insider can present their information/testimony as long as they don't present any incriminating evidence because, through the use of the internet and the mainstream media, it makes it very easy (for the Authority) to turn the insider into just another debunkable 'Crack-Pot' 'Conspiracy Theorist'.

We learn these things.

If a person is really interested in what has or is going on, even though no proof is being offered, who would you trust more - Someone like "Sorcha Faal", or an experienced insider?

But one thing to always keep in mind: Insiders are Human too.

Well mostly! :)

[ThePythonicCow]

I'm certainly not going to place any wagers that you're wrong, Harley :).

[Harley]

Not trying to prove anyone is wrong Paul. As I kinda said earlier, I have something gnawing at me.

And I agree with Rebekah Roth where she said the script writers need to learn to be on the same page and also that they're doing a piss-poor job of placing their evidence.

:)

[ThePythonicCow]

Not trying to prove anyone is wrong Paul. As I kinda said earlier, I have something gnawing at me.
No problem what so ever :)

(Well, no problem here and now, between us. There's some big problems elsewhere on this planet.)

[ThePythonicCow]

Another fine interview of Rebekah Roth, from just a couple of days ago:
yBTxy2jFqCE
At the 21:10 mark (https://youtu.be/yBTxy2jFqCE?t=21m10s), she clarifies further how she determined the location where the planes landed. The first call, from American Airlines Flight 11, that would be the flight that hit the North Tower, was made 20 minutes after that flight left Logan (Boston), destined for Los Angeles, 2617 miles (4211 km) away.

Since the cell phone call had to have been made from the ground, and since the plane was fueled for a long flight, it must have been a long runway (to land a large passenger plane heavy with fuel), close to Boston (for the times to work.)

The other 3 flights, another from Logan, and one each from Newark and Dulles airports, also fit the timing, from take off, to landing at Westover, to when the cell phone calls were made by crew or passengers from them.

===

P.S. -- Keep listening. Rebekah goes into more detail of the calls and the flights in the above interview than I have heard before.

[ThePythonicCow]

Near the end of her "Methodical Illusions" book, she has a character (Attorney General Rathburn, speaking to the President) say:

This explains some things that were making no sense to the FBI, there have been several troubling incongruencies in our intelligence that we could not fully explain. Based on what I heard on the tape, I believe now they will most likely strike, Las Vegas, Houston, Chicago, San Francisco, Billings and right here in D.C. Our intelligence made no sense to me until hearing this tape. Now, I believe Las Vegas quite possbily could be targeted for some type of nuclear detonation. Houston oil refineries and pipelines are in danger of conventional explosives that will affect domestic oil supplies and national reserves. Chicago, quite possibly, is where they intend to launch a biological weapon, most likely in a large shopping mall. Much like the symbolic World Trade Center shopping towers, San Francisco is in danger of losing the iconic Golden Gate Bridge. Billings, Montana quite possibly will be the target of a chemical agent to prove to Americans that even small towns are no longer safe. And D.C.'s primary target is you, sir. These attacks, I believe, are set to happen in short succession, with one or possibly two days between each event. By the end of a nine day period fear will reign and the country will be in total chaos. It appears that the grand finale will be your assassination, Mr. President. Someone or several people in this town are most likely very deeply involved with this cabal and its destructive agenda.
The "tape" referred to is a secretly recorded rant by a high level Israelie that ended up being listened to by the President and his more trusted advisors. The "President" was not Obama, but a patriotic, Constitution respecting, man who had replaced him, after an earlier impeachment in the book, during 2014.

Some of the above is (and I hope remains) fiction :).
At the 1 hour, 8 minute, 40 second mark (https://youtu.be/yBTxy2jFqCE?t=1hr8m40s) in the latest interview I just posted above, Rebekah goes into the detail of how she learned of this planned attack on 5 or 6 major US cities, May 2 through May 11, 2015.

[Slorri]

What if this term: "Of middle eastern descent" is a hint?

There are several countries in the middle east. Israel being one of them.

[ThePythonicCow]

My question at this juncture is, how come Rebecca Roth has managed to stay unharmed through bringing this research into the main? Max Igan always reminds me to ask this of any source that brings information to light. Why has Rebecca been 'allowed' to continue bringing her findings 'out' ? For what purpose? Who benefits?

She came on the scene rapidly, with a first edition novel that she avoided even allowing someone else to edit. She did her best to stay below the radar until then. Subsequently, all she's done is to make the interview rounds, as quickly as she could, discussing her book.
Another aspect to this -- it seems to me that the neocon-zionist-Bush-Clinton-USFed cabal is being taken down. The "good" Russians, Chinese and other BRICS are replacing them.

The energy that 9/11 truthers, such as myself, have placed in exposing 9/11 and other such false flag events is and will be used against us, to further enslave humanity.

[Nat_Lee]

Its good to hear from the perspective of the fight attendants who would/should
of had a pivotal role in any hijacking particularly if they had a chance to
communicate with the outside world. ( Which is very suspect ). According to
their emergency anti hijack training and protocols. Apart from all the other
oddities , coincidences , military drills and motives to get the US into
warfare for the forseable future.....



Hagmann & Hagmann - 30 Jan 2015 - Rebekah Roth - The Methodical Illusion of 9/11

85jbOSKTeFU

Hi !

We all know that it was plan but here's another theory that I'v found in a video I was watching from Paul T Hellyer an ancient prim minister of defense in Canada who are talking about full disclosure.
Here is the video I found on gnostic9's thread (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?80979-Is-this-disclosure&p=946039&viewfull=1#post946039) yesterday and Mr. T Hellyer talks about 9/11. If you go at around 16:00 minutes in the middle of the vid, you'll ear him talk about it:
79ZyvXMwMtI

and he suggest us to read about this theory about a weapon of mass destruction and the book is called '' WERE DID ThE TOWERS GO ? '':

pdf here : http://www.checktheevidence.com/pdf/Where%20Did%20The%20Towers%20Go%20-%20Dr%20Judy%20Wood.pdf

I did not read it but I thought that it could be added to your post since it is correlating.

[ThePythonicCow]

I did not read it but I thought that it could be added to your post since it is correlating.
I have read Judy Wood's "Where Did the Towers Go?" (this thread's title is adapted from that book's title), and yes that, and Hellyer's testimony, are all connected.

My preference for this present thread is that it focus on one particular aspect of 9/11 - Rebekah Roth's new research and insights into where the planes went.

Thanks!

[Slorri]

So the idea is that the passengers of the planes were told, and were made to believe, that they participated in a drill. That's why they played along, and made those phone calls.

WOW!! METHODICAL ILLUSION: The True Story Of What Happened On 9/11

jjvsnzBie_Y

[Sophocles]

If something is about to happen in may this year, perhaps it (also) could be related to what Dr. Todd Walker -a former 20 year consultant to the Federal Reserve- are saying (http://www.thecommonsenseshow.com/2015/03/13/the-pieces-for-americas-imminent-red-dawn-are-in-place/) (march 12, 2015); that the U.S. economy has about “60-90 days of life left in it as the dollar is on the verge of collapse”. Just a thought...

[Slorri]

Near the end of her "Methodical Illusions" book, she has a character (Attorney General Rathburn, speaking to the President) say:

This explains some things that were making no sense to the FBI, there have been several troubling incongruencies in our intelligence that we could not fully explain. Based on what I heard on the tape, I believe now they will most likely strike, Las Vegas, Houston, Chicago, San Francisco, Billings and right here in D.C. Our intelligence made no sense to me until hearing this tape. Now, I believe Las Vegas quite possbily could be targeted for some type of nuclear detonation. Houston oil refineries and pipelines are in danger of conventional explosives that will affect domestic oil supplies and national reserves. Chicago, quite possibly, is where they intend to launch a biological weapon, most likely in a large shopping mall. Much like the symbolic World Trade Center shopping towers, San Francisco is in danger of losing the iconic Golden Gate Bridge. Billings, Montana quite possibly will be the target of a chemical agent to prove to Americans that even small towns are no longer safe. And D.C.'s primary target is you, sir. These attacks, I believe, are set to happen in short succession, with one or possibly two days between each event. By the end of a nine day period fear will reign and the country will be in total chaos. It appears that the grand finale will be your assassination, Mr. President. Someone or several people in this town are most likely very deeply involved with this cabal and its destructive agenda.
The "tape" referred to is a secretly recorded rant by a high level Israelie that ended up being listened to by the President and his more trusted advisors. The "President" was not Obama, but a patriotic, Constitution respecting, man who had replaced him, after an earlier impeachment in the book, during 2014.

Some of the above is (and I hope remains) fiction :).
At the 1 hour, 8 minute, 40 second mark (https://youtu.be/yBTxy2jFqCE?t=1hr8m40s) in the latest interview I just posted above, Rebekah goes into the detail of how she learned of this planned attack on 5 or 6 major US cities, May 2 through May 11, 2015.

Could This Be the Next False Flag Attack?
th4Jc92_FJE

[Bill Ryan]

bWYR1uXBPq4




I finally got to watching this interview today. I was totally struck by it.

I am now, also today, going to methodically work through every other interview with her I can find.

Rebekah is highly articulate, delightful to listen to (she laughs a lot, despite the somber material), entertaining, highly intelligent, and impeccably informed. HIGHLY recommended. :)

Bumping this thread.

:focus:

[Bill Ryan]

Thanks Paul for bringing this well organised package of material together. I am going to now listen to these interviews and read much more.

My question at this juncture is, how come Rebecca Roth has managed to stay unharmed through bringing this research into the main? Max Igan always reminds me to ask this of any source that brings information to light. Why has Rebecca been 'allowed' to continue bringing her findings 'out' ? For what purpose? Who benefits?

Cheers
Debra


Rebekah took care to write her book in a fictional context (a novel) — a device used by quite a few whistleblowers to avoid prosecution/persecution.

Only recently has she gone on the interview circuit... maybe a more dangerous step now that she's [rightly!] attracted quite a lot of attention to herself.

[onawah]

I'm about 3/4 of the way through this interview, and it's really worth listening to, even if 911 isn't your area of expertise, which is the case for me.
Nevertheless, 911 was a time of great awakening for me, and the thing that stuck with me more than anything was the sight on TV of the planes crashing into the Twin Towers, which looked unreal to me.
They were like hot knives through butter--no debris exploding outward, or anything like what it should have looked like. It was like the planes just disappeared as soon as they came into contact with the outer walls.
It was that sight, more even than anything that came afterwards, that convinced me that something was really wrong, and there was some kind of huge coverup going on.
And that certainly tallies with what Rebecca says in the interview, that she and the many pilots and others that she's talked to concur--what those videos portrayed simply isn't part of the reality that they know, and they don't think that those videos show what planes actually crashing into buildings look like.
Which goes back to the theory that holograms were being used, in conjunction, of course, with either planned, timed demolitions and/or some kind of secret technology that creates "dustification" that Judy Woods has described.
Not that there weren't planes also involved, but perhaps those planes were simply meant to be another distraction, this one to hide the possibility that planes never crashed into the Towers, and that was a huge visual illusion part of the Methodical Illusion.

[onawah]

I just asked a psychic/medium ( Suzy Ward of Messages from Matthew http://www.matthewbooks.com/matthews-messages/) if whistleblowers like Paul Hellyer are being protected, and she said: "All persons who are “bringing to light” the truth about any corrupt or deceptive issue are being protected unless being assassinated for their bravery is in their soul contracts or the chosen life span is up."


Thanks Paul for bringing this well organised package of material together. I am going to now listen to these interviews and read much more.

My question at this juncture is, how come Rebecca Roth has managed to stay unharmed through bringing this research into the main? Max Igan always reminds me to ask this of any source that brings information to light. Why has Rebecca been 'allowed' to continue bringing her findings 'out' ? For what purpose? Who benefits?

Cheers
Debra

Rebekah took care to write her book in a fictional context (a novel) — a device used by quite a few whistleblowers to avoid prosecution/persecution.

Only recently has she gone on the interview circuit... maybe a more dangerous step now that she's [rightly!] attracted quite a lot of attention to herself.

[Selkie]

May all the benevolent powers of heaven and earth protect this astounding woman, Rebekah Roth.

[Bill Ryan]

-------

I wrote to Rebekah Roth today with the following:







Dear Rebekah,

I am very greatly enjoying working through all your interviews one by one. GOOD work. :)

In February 2009, I formally interviewed a young American woman I knew quite well. I called her 'Elizabeth Nelson' — a pseudonym. I have her full name and all details.

'Elizabeth' had found herself in the same room, quite by accident, where the decision was made (by conference call) to shoot down Flight 93. She was present throughout and overheard the entire call in detail.

I published the account here:
http://projectcamelot.org/elizabeth_nelson_flight_93.html

The interview is in her own unaltered voice: she is a rather brave woman. That can be downloaded here:
http://projectcamelot.org/elizabeth_nelson_flight_93.mp3

A full transcript is here:
http://projectcamelot.org/lang/en/elizabeth_nelson_flight_93_transcript_en.html

I'm certain you're receiving a huge volume of correspondence! I would be most grateful if you could take just the briefest moment to acknowledge that you've read this message and understand its importance.

With my sincere warmest wishes to you ~

Bill Ryan
Founder, Project Camelot, Project Avalon




Rebekah replied:







Bill, Interesting. I have been contacted by people who were working the pentagon that morning that received phone calls telling them to get out of the pentagon NOW! And they did, or they would not be alive to tell the story.

As far as flight 93 goes, if you read the book, you will discover what happened to all four planes.

My biggest fans are UAL and AA pilots who are buying the book in bulk from the publisher! They know full well that I discovered the missing piece of the puzzle. I did so using my 30 yr. career and lots of investigation along with charting the phone calls, NTSB, FAA, NORAD data and flight times that the calls were made.

Lots of interesting people including reserves that were based at the location the planes were taken to who have also contacted me to say the base was evacuated and they were locked OUT when they were activated that morning.

[onawah]

Wow! That's hot!!:flame: The Internet is so awesome!

[Griff]

I think we need a special project Avalon interview of Rebekah. I`ve ordered her book but I don`t think I can wait for it to arrive, I may have to see if it`s in the local bookstore yet.

Griff

[ThePythonicCow]

'Elizabeth' had found herself in the same room, quite by accident, where the decision was made (by conference call) to shoot down Flight 93. She was present throughout and overheard the entire call in detail.

The Israeli controlled Promis software had been installed on all the key FAA (civilian air control) and NORAD (military air control) systems, enabling behind the scenes operatives to control what painted on each of their radars - making real planes disappear and fake planes appear, confusing everyone involved.
When I glance over the transcript (http://projectcamelot.org/lang/en/elizabeth_nelson_flight_93_transcript_en.html) of Elizabeth's interview with you, I do not see where she claimed to know it was Flight 93, rather only where you concluded it was such, I presume because by the story as we understood when that interview occurred, in February 2009, Flight 93 was the only plausible flight of the publicly "known" four flights on 9/11 that could have been shot down.

For all I know now, the plane that those officers decided to shoot down might not have been a real flight at all ... just a fake paint on their radar (see my quote above, about the Promis software).

Or, even if a real plane, it might not have been the same as whatever flew over Shanksville, PA (alleged Flight 93.)

Or, even if a real plane and even if it was the one flying over Shanksville, it (more than likely) was not a commercial passenger plane with passengers on board.

My conclusion:

Elizabeth heard some officers, making a hard decision, to shoot down something painting on their radar, over a restricted area in the Northeast, US, on the morning of 9/11. But this is not confirmation that any passenger plane was shot down over Shanksville, much less the "real" Flight 93.

[Slorri]

Elizabeth did mention that she knew it was false when people said that the passengers had taken over Flight 93 and crashed it, because of this she overheard of it being shot down, so there seems to be a link.

On the other hand, her story does not rhyme particularly well with the fact that they were playing war-games at the time. The men in the room should have known this.

[ThePythonicCow]

Elizabeth did mention that she knew it was false when people said that the passengers had taken over Flight 93 and crashed it, because of this she overheard of it being shot down, so there seems to be a link.
Good catch - I missed that detail.

From what you heard, did Elizabeth -know- that it was Flight 93 that she heard being discussed, or did she later conclude it must have been Flight 93 she heard being discussed, as it was the only flight, in the "official" story, that might have been shot down.

Regarding whether the officers in that room that day knew that there were war-games going on at the time ... perhaps they did not know. If they were not party to the war-games, they would not have been told of them. At least, that was my experience, as a military officer, sometimes involved in war-games. I -never- heard of any war-games the entire time I was an officer, except those I participated in. No doubt there were many other such war-games, in which I did not participate.

[Slorri]

Elizabeth did mention that she knew it was false when people said that the passengers had taken over Flight 93 and crashed it, because of this she overheard of it being shot down, so there seems to be a link.
Good catch - I missed that detail.

From what you heard, did Elizabeth -know- that it was Flight 93 that she heard being discussed, or did she later conclude it must have been Flight 93 she heard being discussed, as it was the only flight, in the "official" story, that might have been shot down.

Regarding whether the officers in that room that day knew that there were war-games going on at the time ... perhaps they did not know. If they were not party to the war-games, they would not have been told of them. At least, that was my experience, as a military officer, sometimes involved in war-games. I -never- heard of any war-games the entire time I was an officer, except those I participated in. No doubt there were many other such war-games, in which I did not participate.

It appeared like she did not know of either flight 93 nor any hijackers. And for what I understand none of the 4 planes were anywhere near to Camp David; But it would be in the direct path of Flight 93, continuing over Shanksville, and going down towards south-east.
http://911research.wtc7.net/essays/gopm/docs/us_wall_eastc_p.jpg

Should be surprising to me if these guys could make the decision to shoot down a passenger plane, without consulting air traffic controllers and the military first, and they might have known about the games.

If they did not know of any war games or hijackers, then the decision to shoot down a passenger plane, just because it flew close to Camp David, is absurd. A golf course in the woods.

[Slorri]

I think that Mineta's story kind of fits in with this one. A mix up of the pentagon plane and Flight 93 perhaps.

QlM8Sui6-X0

[ThePythonicCow]

It appeared like she did not know of either flight 93 nor any hijackers. And for what I understand none of the 4 planes were anywhere near to Camp David; But it would be in the direct path of Flight 93, continuing over Shanksville, and going down towards south-east.
...
Should be surprising to me if these guys could make the decision to shoot down a passenger plane, without consulting air traffic controllers and the military first, and they might have known about the games.

If they did not know of any war games or hijackers, then the decision to shoot down a passenger plane, just because it flew close to Camp David, is absurd. A golf course in the woods.


I think that Mineta's story kind of fits in with this one. A mix up of the pentagon plane and Flight 93 perhaps.
My current guess, in good part from Rebekah Roth's work, is that both the well known flight paths for the four flights (that you posted above), and Norman Mineta's testimony, are so far removed from reality as to be about as useful to understanding 9/11 as studies of the Easter Bunny would be to understanding the real historical meaning of Christmas.

It doesn't surprise me that the "Elizabeth Nelson", who Bill heard speak, witnessed military officers discussing and ordering a shoot-down (and doing so in genuine sincerity.) But I have no way of knowing what was painting on the radar screens that those officers were dealing with, and no way of knowing if there even was a real "flying hunk of metal" in the sky that was being painted, much less what any such flying hunk of metal might have actually been.

Apparently, the "real" 9/11 planes didn't fly anywhere close to the claimed paths, there were false targets being painted on both FAA (civilian) and Norad (military) radar, and real targets being hidden, again on both radar systems.

[Slorri]

What's in the Methodical Illusion?

35izrnuE1TA


We ask best selling author Rebekah Roth why we should read the Methodical Illusion.

[ThePythonicCow]

~~~

Henrik Palmgren's Red Ice Radio interview of Rebekah Roth is now public on Youtube:
4VadAXNacNA
The Youtube page description for this interview:
Rebekah Roth enjoyed a thirty year airline career working as both a flight attendant and an international purser. She was trained as an emergency medical technician and served as a volunteer firefighter. Her expertise and training as a flight attendant allowed her to research the events of September 11, 2001 with an insider's knowledge, and eventually lead her to discover details and answers to some of the most haunting questions surrounding that infamous day in our history.

Rebekah is with us speak about her book, Methodical Illusion, which is the culmination of her extensive research and personal knowledge of in-flight procedures and FAA hijacking protocols.

In the first segment, we learn about Rebekah's inspiration for writing the book and her process of waking up from the spell of cognitive dissonance that prevented her from wanting to take a closer look into the official story. Rebekah talks about the red flags that were present from day one, and the many anomalies that showed the orchestrators of destruction of the Twin Towers did not consult with an actual flight attendant. We discuss the mysteries of Buildings 4, 6 and 7, and the trillions of dollars that were erased with their eradication. Then, Rebekah breaks down several big key elements of the phone calls of 9/11, and how these staged recorded conversations sealed the deal for the military industrial complex to launch the War on Terror, creating the "New Pearl Harbor" that would lead to 7 Middle Eastern wars.

In the members' hour, we look at the psychological warfare and brainwashing techniques used in creating a Hegelian dialectic, along with the conspired solutions to big problems that fattened the wallets of insider corporations. Rebekah gives details of the shadow government in control of everything from radar to national security, the IRS, and the health care industry. Later, Rebekah tells us how she pieced together the paths of the disappearing planes and the manipulated illusions that were created to explain away the impossible crashes. At the end, we discuss media spokespeople, with ties to Zionist circles, the funding behind technology and Israeli intelligence.

[Cidersomerset]

Rebekah says near the start of her interviews that during early research for her
novel, she came across an article about some of the ' hijackers' were still alive and
well. I have seen the article on the web so I just thought I'd have a recap and
checked the BBC web site. There are three articles on the link ( below) that I could
see and I thought it worth the effort of copying it out as its one of the sparks that
set off her efforts to expose this case. I know you can click a link ,but I find having
it in front of me makes me look........

Hijack 'suspects' alive and well

http://www.bbc.co.uk/search?q=Hijack%20'suspects'%20alive%20and%20well
----------------------------------------------------------------------------

http://static.bbci.co.uk/frameworks/barlesque/2.83.4/orb/4/img/bbc-blocks-dark.png
Sunday, 23 September, 2001, 12:30 GMT 13:30 UK
Hijack 'suspects' alive and well

http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/olmedia/1555000/images/_1559151_pilot300mav.jpg
Waleed Al Shehri
A man called Waleed Al Shehri says he left the US a year ago

Another of the men named by the FBI as a hijacker in the suicide attacks on
Washington and New York has turned up alive and well. The identities of four of the
19 suspects accused of having carried out the attacks are now in doubt. Saudi
Arabian pilot Waleed Al Shehri was one of five men that the FBI said had
deliberately crashed American Airlines flight 11 into the World Trade Centre on 11
September. His photograph was released, and has since appeared in newspapers
and on television around the world.

Now he is protesting his innocence from Casablanca, Morocco.

He told journalists there that he had nothing to do with the attacks on New York
and Washington, and had been in Morocco when they happened. He has contacted
both the Saudi and American authorities, according to Saudi press reports.

He acknowledges that he attended flight training school at Daytona Beach in the
United States, and is indeed the same Waleed Al Shehri to whom the FBI has been
referring. But, he says, he left the United States in September last year, became
a pilot with Saudi Arabian airlines and is currently on a further training course in Morocco.

Mistaken identity

Abdulaziz Al Omari, another of the Flight 11 hijack suspects, has also
been quoted in Arab news reports.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/olmedia/1555000/images/_1559151_pilot150afp.jpg
Abdelaziz Al Omari 'lost his passport in Denver'

He says he is an engineer with Saudi Telecoms, and that he lost his passport while
studying in Denver. Another man with exactly the same name surfaced on the
pages of the English-language Arab News. The second Abdulaziz Al Omari is a pilot
for Saudi Arabian Airlines, the report says. Meanwhile, Asharq Al Awsat newspaper,
a London-based Arabic daily, says it has interviewed Saeed Alghamdi.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/olmedia/1555000/images/_1559151_pilot150mav.jpg
Khalid Al-Midhar may also be alive

He was listed by the FBI as a hijacker in the United flight that crashed in
Pennsylvania. And there are suggestions that another suspect, Khalid Al Midhar,
may also be alive.

FBI Director Robert Mueller acknowledged on Thursday that the identity of
several of the suicide hijackers is in doubt.

Hijacking suspects

Flight 175: Marwan Al-Shehhi, Fayez Ahmed, Mohald Alshehri, Hamza Alghamdi and Ahmed Alghamdi

Flight 11: Waleed M Alshehri, Wail Alshehri, Mohamed Atta, Abdulaziz Alomari and Satam Al Suqami

Flight 77: Khalid Al-Midhar, Majed Moqed, Nawaq Alhamzi, Salem Alhamzi and Hani Hanjour

Flight 93: Ahmed Alhaznawi, Ahmed Alnami, Ziad Jarrahi and Saeed Alghamdi

Published Date TagsNews|Middle East

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/1559151.stm

=============================================
=============================================

BBC...............

Published Date 22 Sep 2001

Hijack 'suspect' alive in Morocco

By David Bamford in Rabat
A Saudi-Arabian aircraft pilot who was named as one of five suspects on board one
of the planes that crashed into the World Trade Centre, has turned up alive and
well in Morocco. The man, Waleed Al-Shehri, has told Saudi journalists in
Casablanca that he had nothing to do with the attacks on
New York and Washington, and had been in Morocco at the time.


READ MORE........http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/1558669.stm


…Saturday, 22 September, 2001, 20:41 GMT 21:41 UK Hijack 'suspect' alive in
Morocco An airport security video shows two of the alleged hijackers By David
Bamford in Rabat… A Saudi-Arabian aircraft pilot…

Published Date TagsNews|Middle East

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/1558669.stm

============================================
============================================

BBC...............

21 Sep 2001

FBI probes hijackers' identities

http://news.bbc.co.uk/olmedia/1555000/images/_1555589_cctvafp300.jpg
An airport security video showed two of the alleged hijackers

The FBI has said that the identities of some of its list of 19 hijackers behind last
week's devastating attacks are in doubt.


READ MORE..........http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/1553754.stm

…'s North Tower. But the Saudis say Mr al-Omari is alive and well and working as
an electrical engineer. He says his passport was stolen in Denver, Colorado, in
1995. Saudi …

Published Date TagsNews|Americas

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/1553754.stm

-----------------------------------------------------------------

http://www.bbc.co.uk/search?q=Hijack%20'suspects'%20alive%20and%20well

------------------------------------------------------------------

BBC Reports Some 9/11 Hijackers Alive

dbgjzYYXjqw


====================================================
Original Hijacking suspects

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_7Bqr1I5gzyk/SMnO3LfhAPI/AAAAAAAABGU/llCVoxLo2kc/s1600/hijackerskn7.jpg

Hijacking suspects

Flight 175: Marwan Al-Shehhi, Fayez Ahmed, Mohald Alshehri, Hamza Alghamdi and Ahmed Alghamdi

Flight 11: Waleed M Alshehri, Wail Alshehri, Mohamed Atta, Abdulaziz Alomari and Satam Al Suqami

Flight 77: Khalid Al-Midhar, Majed Moqed, Nawaq Alhamzi, Salem Alhamzi and Hani Hanjour

Flight 93: Ahmed Alhaznawi, Ahmed Alnami, Ziad Jarrahi and Saeed Alghamdi

[Cidersomerset]

Henrik Palmgren's Red Ice Radio interview of Rebekah Roth is now public on Youtube:

I'm approx 41 mins and they are talking about various related subjects as they are going
along and they are talking about remote control devices enabling the plane to be taken
over, which is a well known theory and Rebekah is well and truly down the rabbit hole.
She mention MH 170 and how it would of had just enough fuel to get to Diago Garcia
which houses a joint US/UK drone base , another good interview I think she is having
an alternate media blast obviously to sell her book . But also to get the genuine info
out and as she says she is not alone which is good.


====================================================
====================================================

This is another good interview which is conducted on Skype
on a lovely clear link .......


Global Freedom Movement talks to Rebekah Roth - 01 March 2015

9l-rG0ZeNFI

[ThePythonicCow]

This is another good interview which is conducted on Skype on a lovely clear link .......
Excellent interview - perhaps the best yet.

[Cidersomerset]

Its interesting that although the basic story and observations
are the same, the interviews do bring up variations and they
are not boring,considering how much some of us have heard
this. Its seems to be recent by the date and the interviewer
has put up illustrations you can follow or ignore depending
on your preference.....

I posted these vids for ref and they were on the link I was on
so its up to you if you listen to them or not......
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Rebekah Roth 9/11 NEW INFORMATION

IG7ZPzBIdFk

Published on 26 Mar 2015

Steve Johnson from Stopfundingisrael speaks to Author of the book Methodical Illusion:
Rebekah Roth and takes questions from the audience, while they talk on bbsradio.
com Online internet radio.

Her website is: http://methodicalillusion.com

To buy her book: http://www.amazon.com/Methodical-Illu...

To check out my material: http://terraformingearth.net
and
http://how911wasdone.com
and
http://stopfundingisrael.org
and
http://southeastasianews.org
and
http://bigwoopmagazine.com

For more information on how we are being screwed check out
http://youtube.com/user/thecrowhouse.com and http://thecrowhouse.com
and
http://asiantimesonline.com


Check out the People Speak radio here:
http://www.bbsradio.com/ThePeopleSpeak

Mp3 of this audio will be uploaded soon
All images, audio and video used have been used in this video
for educational and or for the purposes of public review and
comment in fair use without any copyright being implied or infringed

====================================================
====================================================
====================================================


The Power Hour - 911-Rebekah Roth

KL7SJYk4hig

Published on 21 Mar 2015
The Power Hour - 911-Rebekah Roth


====================================================
====================================================


This is the first interview that has negative comments in the review below
which will be interesting to compare..............



Rebekah Roth's Methodical Illusion



iIMgvCWnOb0



Published on 6 Mar 2015


Pam and David interview Rebekah Roth, a woman who claims a 30 year history as
an international flight attendant and airline purser, however, she has not as yet
revealed anything specific about her background or history as such. Roth, a
newcomer to the 9/11 truth scene, is sharply critical of one of the fathers of the
movement, Dr. David Ray Griffin whose exhaustive research has produced works
such a the groundbreaking book The New Pearl Harbor: Disturbing Questions About
the Bush Administration and 9/11, now a classic in the genre. Roth has reduced
Griffin's years of contribution and sacrifice, on the long road of truth, to words such
as "nonsense" and "silliness", lumping Griffin's extensive research into one lump
assessment in her effort to debunk any and all possibility for the use of voice
morphing technologies having been used on the day of 9/11. Although both voice
and video morphing technologies were highly advanced military technologies during
the time of 9/11, Roth bristles at the thought and even threatened to leave the
show as we pressed for more answers.

Roth is big on criticism, yet can she, herself, take the heat? We had numerous fair
and valid questions for Roth, but we'll leave it up to you, the listener, to decide on
the verity of her responses.

[Cidersomerset]

This looks like one of her earliest interviews about her book.....


Methodical Illusion Series w/Rebekah Roth Pt.1

yii0XczKuKQ

Published on 20 Nov 2014


Part 1 of our 5 part radio series with author Rebekah Roth. Her book
Methodical Illusion could possibly be one of the most controversial
books when it comes to 9/11.


=========================================
=========================================


Wake Up To The Truth on MBC TV Ep # 3 with Rebekah Roth

kSIB7K6DEsc

Published on 10 Dec 2014

[Cidersomerset]

I think these are the last ones on the links for now , I don't think I have duplicated
any from earlier in the thread ? I did look as I was going. The other thing is you
don't obviously have to listen to all of these interviews , it just a choice and up
to you.

Rebekah is religious and has referenced it a few times , and she did a interview on
a religious webcast for those interested..........

====================================================

Tribulation-Now, 22nd Feb 2015 - Deceptions Behind the 911 Event with Rebekah Roth

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EYAaFqQnrEs

Published on 26 Feb 2015


Methodical Illusion, Deceptions Behind the 911 Event with Rebekah Roth

Join Kenneth, John and Cathy in the chat room while they discuss the empirical
events across the world leading up to World War III, the trickery and deceit of the
New World Order, and the bizarre weirdness of the fallen angelic UFO phenomenon
as we plunge head first into the forthcoming apocalypse and the Seven Seals of Revelation (chapter 6).

Tonight we are blessed to have Rebekah Roth, author of the amazing
book "Methodical Illusion". Rebekah was an international flight attendant during the
911 event and immediately saw unreal inconsistencies in the story being told by
media about what happened with the planes.

Tonight she will share her revelations in regard to these deceptions and introduce a
number of troubling realities that must make us take a second look at our
understanding.

God Bless You - See You There!

====================================================
====================================================
====================================================

Rebekah Roth: Methodical Illusion-Missing Pieces of 9-11

O88reBqnmE4

Published on 22 Feb 2015


Source:
http://radio.offplanetmedia.net/2015/...

OffPlanet Radio LIVE - 02-13-2015 - Randy Maugans with Rebekah Roth recorded 02-13-2014
http://www.methodicalillusion.com

We are joined by Rebekah Roth, a former flight attendant and airline industry insider. Using
her intimate knowledge of the airline industry's protocols, procedures, and technology, has
uncovered amazing details of what happened on September 11, 2001.

Beginning with uncovering the fact that 7 of the alleged hijackers aboard United flight 11 are
still alive! That alleged hijackers had sued to have their names restored; that one hijacker
was already dead...that the original narrative of "terrorists with box cutters" withered under
scrutiny of the details surrounding a mysterious passenger who turns out to be a Mossad assasin.

She discloses her research on:

What actually hit the World Trade buildings 1 and 2
The strange details of the missile that hit the Pentagon
What actually occurred over Shanksville, PA
The inconsistencies of phone calls allegedly made by flight attendants from flight 11; where
the calls were actually were made from, and why stories did not match.
Why Todd Beamer and his group onboard flight 93 could NOT have been initiating their plans
to take back the alleged plane over Shanksville, the famous "Let's roll" drama...
Where the planes and passengers were taken, and their actual fates.
The connections between Israeli contractors, the Pentagon, and highly placed officials in the
airlines and FAA.
The technology that allowed the planes to appear and disappear off FAA radar, and the
technology that likely guided projectiles into the WTC buildings...and much more.
Related link: At Least 7 of the 9/11 Hijackers are Still Alive
http://whatreallyhappened.com/WRHARTI...

Methodical-IllusionRebekah shares an immense amount of data and experiential/anecdotal
facts in her interviews, but the data can also found in detail in here book---a work of "fiction"
that contains more truth than the so-called media have ever reported.

"Methodical Illusion" is available here.


===================================================
===================================================
===================================================

The Ochelli Effect with Chuck Ochelli, guest Rebekah Roth discussing 9/11 perspective 3-21-2015

Mtua94S5Um4

Published on 21 Mar 2015


UCY.TV is an investigative media platform, designed to give YOU a voice on the platform of
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[ThePythonicCow]

This is the first interview that has negative comments in the review below
which will be interesting to compare..............
I suspect that if Rebekah Roth had done a search for David Meiswinkle before the interview with him, she might have declined the interview. On the other hand, I can see what Rebekah means by not letting passengers control an emergency situation ... she did not let Meiswinkle derail her message. She's smart and tough.

Regarding the particular topic of voice morphing technology, yes, it did exist then. So one might actually ask, which would be used, in that case, and which better fits the evidence. If I had had a prepared speech to deliver in the voice of someone else, I might prefer the voice morphing technology, so that I could be sure the exact words I intended were spoken. But if I planned for someone to be speaking for 10 or 20 minutes with a spouse or other close associate, I'd want the actual person there, as there is more to faking someone else than getting their voice frequencies correct. There are all sorts of little details in how people interact, the choice and timing and hesitations and so forth, much of which cannot, even now, be fluidly handled by automated voice morphing technology. The actual evidence, as gone over carefully by Rebekah, much better fits the hypothesis that the actual flight attendants and passengers were used to make the calls.

So ... in short ... rather than ridicule either hypothesis (actual people told what to say, or voice morphing), one should actually look at and listen to the evidence and see which fits. Though I agree, presented with a hostile interviewer, David Meiswinkle, Rebekah did the right thing by taking control of the situation ... then was not the time for a leisurely weighing of the alternatives.

Rebekah Roth's version fits.

[Cidersomerset]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iIMgvCWnOb0

So ... in short ... rather than ridicule either hypothesis (actual people told what to say, or voice morphing), one should actually look at and listen to the evidence and see which fits. Though I agree, presented with a hostile interviewer, David Meiswinkle, Rebekah did the right thing by taking control of the situation ... then was not the time for a leisurely weighing of the alternatives.

Rebekah Roth's version fits.

Yeah she points out what the protocol should of been carried out by the flight
attendants , the mace or perfume ( example )would of effected the pilots crew and
passengers and other points she has researched like the drills and war games going
on which might have been used to confuse and coarse the crews to co operate..
The presenters were not happy that she answered the David Griffin question by
answering it in her own professional way. Hence the criticism and the presenters
wanted to distance themselves from Rebekahs view about him by the looks of it,
but they do not disagree with a lot of her theories and commend her for her work.

I know you do not want to deviate to much off Rebekahs themes as there are many
other versions, but I keep hearing her references which we recognise , but people
looking in may not . So I have linked a few threads about some the themes she is
talking about. Much of which ties into the meme many researchers have and are
finding out about 9/11. ( there are many other threads by other members , with
more expertise on individual topics )......

At the start of the vid after listening to some of the voice tapes they start talking
about Kurt........and she explains briefly about his case.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Kurt Sonnenfeld Official FEMA Video Cameraman at Ground Zero on 9/11...Now political refugee in Argentina

Kurt Sonnenfeld was a photographer who's firm were a contractor for FEMA among
other agencies and on 9/11 was assigned to go to the disaster site and film footage
for the official record. I had not heard his story before ,these vids tells his
circumstances and how he thinks 9/11 was an inside job. He has 25 hrs of footage
taken on the Trade Centre site , which the government are trying to get back. He
says he will give it up to a proper investigation into the disaster.

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?75696-Kurt-Sonnenfeld-Official-FEMA-Video-Cameraman-at-Ground-Zero-on-9-11...Now-political-refugee-in-Argentina

------------------------------------------------------------------------

The Odigo Warnings & the 4,000 Israelis Saved on 9-11

new Wednesday 1st April 2015 at 07:51 By David Icke

http://bollyn.com/#article_15053


Re: Christopher Bollyn 2015: ‘Solving 911 Ends the War’ // Bibi 's Back !! There is a connection...

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?80815-Christopher-Bollyn-2015---Solving-911-Ends-the-War---Bibi-s-Back----There-is-a-connection...&p=948489#post948489

=======================================

WTC 9/11 Building 7 – Clearly Detonated – See Footage of Explosions

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?79470-WTC-9-11-Building-7----Clearly-Detonated----See-Footage-of-Explosions

=======================================

Field McConnell - Boeing Uninterruptible Auto Pilot Used On 9/11 Planes,
Impossible To Hijack! // Corbett Report · Field McConnell · Abel Danger


A couple of interviews with some interesting views on 9/11 and other aviation related
material from a former veteran pilot. The second interview rambles a bit as James
lets field talk he mentions this vid about the auto pilot in the wake of MH370
disappearing which Field suggests landed in Diego Garcia and much more.....

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?79211-Field-McConnell-Boeing-Uninterruptible-Auto-Pilot-Used-On-9-11-Planes-Impossible-To-Hijack--Corbett-Report----Field-McConnell----Abel-Danger

=======================================


Thread: Dr Judy Wood - Several good interviews in early 2013

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?57234-Dr-Judy-Wood-Several-good-interviews-in-early-2013&p=655782&highlight=cidersomerset+towers#post655782

========================================

9/11 Firefighter Blows WTC 7 Cover-Up Wide Open

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?74869-9-11-Firefighter-Blows-WTC-7-Cover-Up-Wide-Open-Twin-Towers-Fall-A-Planned-Demolition-Richard-Gage-Interview

=======================================

On todays headline page , another theme mentioned in Rebekahs
interviews , that we obviously know here is that many mainstream
top reporters are intel operatives or controlled and embellish ,spin
or lie some stories and in some cases their own achievements.

Bill O’Reilly’s Cameraman Shreds The Last Threads Of His Falklands Lies
new Wednesday 1st April 2015 at 07:34 By David Icke

http://crooksandliars.com/2015/03/bill-oreillys-cameraman-shreds-last

[Cidersomerset]

9l-rG0ZeNFI

Quote Posted by Cidersomerset (here)
This is another good interview which is conducted on Skype on a lovely clear link .......
Excellent interview - perhaps the best yet.

Thanks Paul.....

I agree this is very good , the hosts sit back and listen intently as you can watch.
They are taking it all in ,which enables Rebekah to go right thru her theory
without interruptions. In some of the other vids the communication is not as clear
and the hosts want to interrupt to ask questions. Which is fair enough a good show
should have a balance of info and Q&A. There is a gap where Rebekah gets cut off
and as they try to get her back they go over what has been said so far and reflects
it with what they know of 9/11. This tells us they are not novices which it looked
like in the first hour as they listened politely and with great interest.

But in this case and the subject matter, which the hosts say at the beginning of the
interview that they had not covered yet , it works very well imo and as you say.
Rebekah is very consistent in each interview I've heard/watched so far and explains
how it was possible to control the planes involved on the day of 9/11 quite
convincingly and is a big piece of the puzzle of the day , given more clarity.

Is her theory right ? I obviously cannot say categorically, but it makes more sense
than some of what we have heard before I think, and certainly compliments the
bigger picture and fits well and explains how the aircraft passengers were controlled
by making them think they were part of drills or something similar . With the war
games brought forward form October and a lots of other details , certainly rules out
Bin Laden having much to do with this 9/11 psyops other than playing the patsy.
Which many of us thought from lots of other sources and researchers.

[meat suit]

I havent had any time to listen to any of the interviews, so pardon if its been covered... but ,has it been considered that the planes were maybe not fully fuelled up... so they could have landed on shorter runways too?? I mean.. the whole thing was a setup anyway...

[Rex]

Just about done with her book, it's really pretty incredible... Going into this I didn't think there could be any more major 9/11 revelations, but man I was wrong. IMHO this "novel" covers some big junks of the puzzle. No matter what you believe happened that day, it will make you go back and see how/if this new info fits. At the very least it will remind you just how insidious and determined these folks are.

[ThePythonicCow]

I havent had any time to listen to any of the interviews, so pardon if its been covered... but ,has it been considered that the planes were maybe not fully fuelled up... so they could have landed on shorter runways too?? I mean.. the whole thing was a setup anyway...
I have not heard that considered.

However, if Rebekah is right, that the planes took off as scheduled, only to land soon thereafter, before the cell phone calls were made from the ground, then whatever runway they landed on must have been close to Logan airport (Boston), because there is only about 20 minutes elapsed time from when American Airlines Flight 11's took off to when the first calls were made from crew on that flight.

Using a long runway, which the military had close to Logan and which they could shut down for a few days, enabled them to lift off from Logan with a normal fuel load for the scheduled flight to Los Angeles. Doing this reduced the number of people who might have noticed something out of place, before the calls were made. The pilots and various airport handlers would have noticed if the fuel load was too light for the scheduled flight.

The focus, all along was on the midair hijackings. The combination of the Flight Termination System and the Promis software in both FAA (civilian) and NORAD (military) traffic control enabled them to take complete control of flights in air, without prior notice, and send the plane one way, while what painted on civilian and military radars showed a flight path somewhere else, with the pilots isolated from all subsequent communication, even with their own crew.

Everything proceeded as close to normal as practical, up to the moment that control of the planes, in-flight, was taken over.

[East Sun]

I finished reading Rebekah' book a few days ago. I'm so glad that she wrote it as only someone in her position could. Unlike the JFK coverup this is in our time and times have changed. Hope she is well protected because fiction or not its as plain as daylight and it all happened in broad daylight. If that kind of thing is pulled again we, the people, will not be duped so easily.

This may be the beginning of a new era.

[meat suit]

thanks Paul,
just to throw this in...
stuart airforce base at 12.20 in this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n_fp5kaVYhk is mentioned as the place both planes crossed. I cant find the bit where he tells this story about the 2 replacement planes that took off from there to crash into the twin towers...maybe a differrent vid by alienscientist...

[awakeningmom]

Roth presents some really fascinating material and adds useful pieces to the puzzle, and for that I am grateful. However, she may need to tone down her belief that she's the only one who has gotten the whole picture right. In the "negative" interview with Quantum Matrix Radio (post #47), Rebekah is very dismissive about David Ray Griffin, and not just about his "voice morphing" hypothesis. Instead, she basically dismisses him as a misinformed "theologian." In my opinion (and for me personally), David Ray Griffin woke a lot of people up, and his soft-spoken, intelligent manner allowed people who would not ordinarily consider "conspiracy theories" about 911 to do so. So what if he didn't get everything right. Has anyone? This was a well-planned psy-op with so many layers of disinformation that I doubt even Roth has more than 50% of the story correct, which is probably why she hasn't been suicided yet. I also don't think Griffin was particularly insistent about the voice morphing -- it seemed like a theory he presented as a possibility, but one he could readily discard if other more persuasive information became available. So if Roth's problems with Griffin run any further than that, I'd really like to know what they are.

Also, would like to know more about this Mitre company she's referencing. That piece is new to me. Guess I'll have to go read the book now!

[ThePythonicCow]

Roth presents some really fascinating material and adds useful pieces to the puzzle, and for that I am grateful. However, she may need to tone down her belief that she's the only one who has gotten the whole picture right.
Rebekah is, by temperament, a "take charge" sort of person. That's how she ended up as a volunteer fireman, and then crew chief (purser) on flight attendant crews, who train to take charge of passengers in both routine and emergency situations.

She brings expert awareness of how things are run on commercial passenger flights, thousands of hours of research into 9/11, and a strong analytical mind.

In short, yes, a controlling temperament ... but also just the qualities and focus that were needed, at this time, to unravel another key puzzle of 9/11. It's a tradeoff I will happily accept, but I appreciate that that is just my personal view.

===

P.S. Another key aspect of Rebekah - she does have a sense of humor of her own human limitations and of her evolving views of 9/11 over time. When she figures her current view is right, and that it's important to be crystal clear what she's saying, she is unflinching in her presentation. But I don't think that means she has gotten stuck in her long standing views and understanding ... far from it.

[HaveBlue]

Field McConnell said Rebecca is more interested in selling books than finding truth about 911. It's a hot topic over at AD. I will ask Field to elaborate the next chance I get during his and David Hawkins Livestream shows.

[Bill Ryan]

Field McConnell said Rebecca is more interested in selling books than finding truth about 911. It's a hot topic over at AD. I will ask Field to elaborate the next chance I get during his and David Hawkins Livestream shows.


Well, that's hardly true!

Up to 20 hours research a day, for hundreds of days over a period of years, uncovering material other 9/11 researchers have missed or so far not connected, doesn't really match with 'not being interested to find the truth'.

:)

What's being revealed here (in a few places) is the human weakness of territoriality.

I encountered this myself when I entered the scene (suddenly, with quite a high profile right out of the blue), back in late 2005. A number of people went: "Who the heck are YOU?", and it was suddenly me that became the topic of discussion (in a few areas) — rather than the material I was presenting, as a then-unknown messenger.

[Harley]

What's being revealed here (in a few places) is the human weakness of territoriality.

I encountered this myself when I entered the scene (suddenly, with quite a high profile right out of the blue), back in late 2005. A number of people went: "Who the heck are YOU?", and it was suddenly me that became the topic of discussion (in a few areas) — rather than the material I was presenting, as a then-unknown messenger.

Too often it's been quite painful for me to witness this treatment of other messengers, which is exactly the reason why I prefer presenting what I know in the form of personal opinion.

And that's the way it is!

:)

[Tangri]

What's being revealed here (in a few places) is the human weakness of territoriality.

I encountered this myself when I entered the scene (suddenly, with quite a high profile right out of the blue), back in late 2005. A number of people went: "Who the heck are YOU?", and it was suddenly me that became the topic of discussion (in a few areas) — rather than the material I was presenting, as a then-unknown messenger.

Too often it's been quite painful for me to witness this treatment of other messengers, which is exactly the reason why I prefer presenting what I know in the form of personal opinion.

And that's the way it is!

:)

I agree, I prefer presenting what I know in the form of bed stories. Bare truth is very cruel for horse glassed humans. More than 2 decades ago I was working with open minded(!?) screen writers as a consultant, even open minded Sci-fic writers became dummies when they met with untold things. But all efforts work eventually. Nowadays, sometimes I am surprised by my bed time stories affects.

[ThePythonicCow]

There is an interesting detail in this story that keeps returning to my awareness.

Notice that the Flight Termination System (FTS) cuts off -all- communication with the pilots. The FTS goes further than is needed just to ensure that a hijacker cannot take control of a plane. If that's all you wanted to do, you'd keep the communication channels open, you'd still allow the pilots to squawk the Hijack code 7500, and otherwise focus just on taking over control of what is needed to land the plane, regardless of who wants what in the cockpit. Indeed, isolating the pilots from communication with the ground or their crew and disabling squawking the Hijack code both seem counterproductive in an emergency situation, and could put the plane, crew and passengers at greater risk, due to the potential for miscommunication.

This excessive degree of control is an excellent example of where technology goes wrong.

Smart meters and smart phones demonstrate similar risks. Self driving cars will surely display similar risks.


A smart meter that lets my electrical company read my meter more economically each month is OK by me (I don't have any friends or relatives who are out of work meter readers.) But a smart meter that enables the CIA/NSA to monitor my habits, inside my trailer, by closely monitoring my electrical usage, or a smart meter that enables the power company to decide what electrical appliance I can use when, allows for excessive central surveillance and control.

Smart phones (or in my case computers and tablets) that I control, with features useful to me, are fine. But having some central authorities use them to track my every move and communication, and have the ability to block or modify any communication at will, is excessive central control.

Smart self-driving cars that I can still control have the potential to be a better driver than I will be, as I get more senile and they get smarter. But a smart car that the central authorities can use to monitor my travels and to control when and where I can go, is excessive central control.

In each case, I don't mind the increased technology. But I do strongly object to some nameless central authority abusing that technology to control me like some lab rat.

... mostly a bit off topic ... but the excessive isolation forced on the pilot by the FTS, as documented by Rebekah Roth brought this to my awareness.

[awakeningmom]

In her interviews, Rebekah Roth presents good arguments for why the alleged phone calls had to be made from the ground, and I think she makes a pretty good case for where the flights landed too, given the official time lapses between take-off and when the calls were made. (Many researchers have also pointed out the unlikelihood of cell phones working from the presumed altitudes and I recall at least one researcher pointing out that there may not have even been air-phones on those particular flights at all).

Some other interesting information I wasn’t aware of before was the fact that many of the calls on the respective flights were made at EXACTLY the same time, and that none of the flight attendants on any of the four flights followed proper protocols – e.g., calling family members and “reservations” instead of supervisory personnel, etc. Nor was I aware that the FBI showed up to confiscate cell phones and voice message systems from the call recipients well before any hijacked flight information was even released. Some smoking guns here, IMO.

But still I’m left with many questions….particularly about the weird phone calls.
For example, Roth says two flight attendants mention a singular “he” as the lone hijacker instead of the 2-4 hijackers we are supposed to believe took over each flight. One flight attendant mentions “steps” although there are no steps on a 767, while another passenger with flight experience tells his mother he’s “over Ohio” when the timing between take-off of that flight and the alleged impact wouldn’t have given enough time to make it close to Ohio (nor does Ohio look like NYC), etc. Then there’s the flight attendant who, when asked where she was, says: “I see buildings, I see water” – minutes before impact into the WTC. Is there really anyone, let alone a flight attendant, who doesn’t know what NYC looks like?

Roth suggests that these weird calls indicate that passengers were either reading from some kind of script or basically told what to say. And that the passengers were either forced to make these calls or willingly participated in the calls because they were told they were part of a drill. Ok, but….

1. If the passengers of these various crafts were taken to a US military base, it is quite possible, as Roth hypothesizes, that they didn’t quite know they were being hijacked. And if they were met by men dressed in US military attire, it is quite possible they would have been relieved and believed any story they were told about participating in a drill.

2. Still, I find it hard to believe that normal people are going to willingly call their loved ones and traumatize them about a hijacking even if they thought it was a drill. Wouldn’t they object to doing this for this reason – or somehow assure their loved ones that it was a drill?

3. On the other hand, the problem with the “force” theory for me is twofold. First, as many researchers have pointed out, the people making the calls, both flight attendants and passengers, sound devoid of emotion and fear. Hard to believe they wouldn’t express any of it on calls if they were being forced to read a script at gunpoint and knew they were likely going to die. Second, if they were reading from scripts, the scripts are pretty odd-ball. Why would the perpetrators tell a flight attendant to mention “steps” – or a singular “He” or allow a passenger to tell his mother they were “over Ohio” when the time elapsed wouldn’t have allowed that to be a possibility? Is it because the perpetrators weren’t yet sure which plane would crash at which destination? Was it just to overwhelm the rest of us with things that don’t make sense? Or were the passengers/attendants actually trying to go ‘off script’ as much as possible? Though I would like to believe this, wouldn’t they have been stopped from doing so immediately?

So many unanswered questions here. I'm appreciative of Roth's fresh perspective, and much of what she says makes sense. But does anyone have any further thoughts about these calls or what to make of them?:confused:

[Jean-Luc]

I encountered this myself when I entered the scene (suddenly, with quite a high profile right out of the blue), back in late 2005. A number of people went: "Who the heck are YOU?", and it was suddenly me that became the topic of discussion (in a few areas) — rather than the material I was presenting, as a then-unknown messenger.

Dis-information 101. Discredit the messenger
By extension, associate opponents with unpopular names such as "eccentric", "extreme right", "leftist", "terrorist", "conspiracy", "radical", "fanatic" or even "blonde" etc ... "

Technique #6 in this list referenced on our 9/11 website: http://www.vigli.org/desinfo.htm (in French)


"Technique n°6 : Décrédibiliser le porteur du message.
Par extension, associer les opposants à des dénominations impopulaires telles que "excentrique", "extrême-droite", "gauchiste", "terroriste", "conspirationniste", "radical", "fanatique", ou même "blonde" etc…"

[araucaria]

So many unanswered questions here. I'm appreciative of Roth's fresh perspective, and much of what she says makes sense. But does anyone have any further thoughts about these calls or what to make of them?:confused:
Your basic point is that the deception was not wholly realistic. This is a given since that is how a deception is detected. A successful deception is simply one that is good enough for long enough; but at some stage it is always by definition going to fall short of the real thing, i.e. fooling all of the people all of the time.

I don’t have all the details of the phone calls, but it seems to me the simplest solution would be in some cases at least for the handlers to confiscate cellphones and make the calls themselves. This might explain for example how someone gave his full name to his mother, a slip-up that could be corrected by threatening the mother into keeping her mouth shut. Alternatively, maybe all the callers were somehow compromised well in advance and selected for that reason. The exact details are not necessarily important because whether these calls were ‘genuine’ or made by handlers, you are losing total control to a modicum of improvisation. You can stand there threateningly, you can whisper ‘you did great’ at the end, but you cannot control every syllable as it comes out. And the same goes for any prepared scripts. Unforeseen mistakes creep in because the meaningful content of any action is potentially unlimited and so ultimately uncontrollable; hence no crime is perfect. Once suspicion is aroused in the right direction, there is no stopping it.

The closer you look the more discrepancies you are going to see. But in this particular instance, had they been fewer or smaller, that would in no way invalidate the major clinching discrepancy, namely that any cellphone calls as advertised were totally impossible. There is absolutely nothing anyone could have said to overcome that impossibility. Here’s an analogy for what I mean. They say Marilyn Monroe would have sounded inimitably sexy just reading a list of groceries. If true, it would still be true even if that list included some items you would never find in a grocer’s store.

[awakeningmom]

So many unanswered questions here. I'm appreciative of Roth's fresh perspective, and much of what she says makes sense. But does anyone have any further thoughts about these calls or what to make of them?:confused:
Your basic point is that the deception was not wholly realistic. This is a given since that is how a deception is detected. A successful deception is simply one that is good enough for long enough; but at some stage it is always by definition going to fall short of the real thing, i.e. fooling all of the people all of the time.

I don’t have all the details of the phone calls, but it seems to me the simplest solution would be in some cases at least for the handlers to confiscate cellphones and make the calls themselves. This might explain for example how someone gave his full name to his mother, a slip-up that could be corrected by threatening the mother into keeping her mouth shut. Alternatively, maybe all the callers were somehow compromised well in advance and selected for that reason. The exact details are not necessarily important because whether these calls were ‘genuine’ or made by handlers, you are losing total control to a modicum of improvisation. You can stand there threateningly, you can whisper ‘you did great’ at the end, but you cannot control every syllable as it comes out. And the same goes for any prepared scripts. Unforeseen mistakes creep in because the meaningful content of any action is potentially unlimited and so ultimately uncontrollable; hence no crime is perfect. Once suspicion is aroused in the right direction, there is no stopping it.

The closer you look the more discrepancies you are going to see. But in this particular instance, had they been fewer or smaller, that would in no way invalidate the major clinching discrepancy, namely that any cellphone calls as advertised were totally impossible. There is absolutely nothing anyone could have said to overcome that impossibility. Here’s an analogy for what I mean. They say Marilyn Monroe would have sounded inimitably sexy just reading a list of groceries. If true, it would still be true even if that list included some items you would never find in a grocer’s store.

Thanks, Araucaria, I agree that the “major clinching discrepancy” is that the calls as advertised were totally impossible. But many 911 researchers over the years have ALREADY pointed that out. Roth now suggests that they were all made on a military base outside Boston. If true, this is a major new piece of the puzzle. But in order for it to be true, the various pieces should fit. So I’m trying to work out the kinks to that theory, first based on the oddities of the calls.

I can’t see how handlers could make the calls to close family members and not have the family member recognize the caller as a fake – although I suppose handlers could make calls to “reservations” or 911 operators (but again, wouldn’t the recorded voices be analyzed later by those who knew the victims well? I think that’s why Griffin focused on existing voice morphing technology). I also agree you cannot control every syllable that comes out – but why would a flight attendant say: “I see buildings, I see water” or a passenger say: “we’re over Ohio” to his mother, minutes from impact into the WTC? If these were scripted to be intentionally confusing/illogical calls (either by willing or forced participants), what’s the point of this? Why not tell a story that supports the official narrative? Was it to buy time? To make sure that whatever actually hit the WTC actually got there? Clearly no-one is seeing unidentifiable water/buildings when/if they are tucked away in a hangar on a military base.

The mounds of intentional disinfo surrounding this psy-op has certainly made me throw my hands up in defeat and disgust more than once – and maybe focusing on specific details of the crime scenes again will just result in more frustration. But Roth is giving us a new puzzle piece to ponder – and I guess I’m just looking for some brainstorming about whether -- and how -- this puzzle piece fits in with the pieces we already (think we) have.

[araucaria]

Thanks, Araucaria, I agree that the “major clinching discrepancy” is that the calls as advertised were totally impossible. But many 911 researchers over the years have ALREADY pointed that out. Roth now suggests that they were all made on a military base outside Boston. If true, this is a major new piece of the puzzle. But in order for it to be true, the various pieces should fit. So I’m trying to work out the kinks to that theory, first based on the oddities of the calls.

I can’t see how handlers could make the calls to close family members and not have the family member recognize the caller as a fake – although I suppose handlers could make calls to “reservations” or 911 operators (but again, wouldn’t the recorded voices be analyzed later by those who knew the victims well? I think that’s why Griffin focused on existing voice morphing technology). I also agree you cannot control every syllable that comes out – but why would a flight attendant say: “I see buildings, I see water” or a passenger say: “we’re over Ohio” to his mother, minutes from impact into the WTC? If these were scripted to be intentionally confusing/illogical calls (either by willing or forced participants), what’s the point of this? Why not tell a story that supports the official narrative? Was it to buy time? To make sure that whatever actually hit the WTC actually got there? Clearly no-one is seeing unidentifiable water/buildings when/if they are tucked away in a hangar on a military base.

The mounds of intentional disinfo surrounding this psy-op has certainly made me throw my hands up in defeat and disgust more than once – and maybe focusing on specific details of the crime scenes again will just result in more frustration. But Roth is giving us a new puzzle piece to ponder – and I guess I’m just looking for some brainstorming about whether -- and how -- this puzzle piece fits in with the pieces we already (think we) have.

That is true: she cannot claim to be the first in pointing out the impossibility of cellphone calls; but she takes credit for fleshing out the story to enable a lot of new people to overcome their cognitive dissonance. Her main breakthrough, as you say, is in naming the airfield where all the timelines come together and as one where personnel were locked out. She doesn’t have to correctly explain every detail to be right on the basic scenario, which is apparently partially confirmed by locked out personnel. More research could be done in that direction. Her other major contribution to this, I believe, is removing a stumbling-block by identifying the Mitre corporation and its technology for falsifying radar screen data both by removing real flight paths and inventing fictitious ones .

I perhaps feel more comfortable than you do in the gray area between fact and fiction. I think the choice of writing a thriller novel has more than simply self-protection on the one hand and engaging the reader on the other. It is an integral part of how we operate, for good and bad, and in a sense it is the middle ground, the no man’s land that we need to snatch back out of the wrong hands. Let me explain how this works.

Spoiler warning.
In a sense, removing real paths and inventing fictitious ones is what Roth herself has done: her real data is ‘only’ reconstructed’, and she has added Dan Brown-type fictitious data of her own. These are what I call things in her grocery list that are not groceries, namely the whole presentday terrorist attack scenario grafted onto the old 911 story. I don’t know how much is true for instance about the Mossad people in Paris lavishly entertaining flight attendants. If it were true back then, then when you later find flight attendants playing a key role, you would expect to find infiltration at this level, with some of these ladies acting compliantly after maybe being selected to perform a drill (asked to work a given flight). I don’t know exactly how this would work, but you would expect a return on investment on the jewellery and expensive clothes and other ‘free lunches’. This is an area Rebekah Roth does not go into. She has a character who is a little one-dimensional and whom she maybe would not have killed off so quickly had she rounded her out more.

At some stage, this fictional part slips back into reality. I take it, for instance, that airport security is indeed as slack as Rebekah Roth claims, on the levels she mentions: elevator use, duty-free shop assistants, passenger wheelchairs, or how flight crews spend their free time in foreign capitals. Any anti-terrorist measures worthy of the name would have to see off-duty airline personnel as a security risk and replace the secret recording of a lover misbehaving directly with secret recordings of possible suspects behaving suspiciously. But again this talk about now, not 911, is precisely where Rebekah is making inroads. Her fiction takes us out of purely historical research and segues into where we are at right now, and where we would like to be in the very near future. It is uplifting not just for the extra piece it adds to the puzzle, but also for the positive next step that she sketches in. What she is doing is actually taking a leaf out of the cabal’s book: you start with a desired goal, you work out a plan, and then you make it happen, you turn your fiction into reality. That is the next step here: we could, for example, find a politician unbeholden to anybody and put him in the White House or some other powerful position. As this will likely involve deception, like superimposing a real state-of-the-union speech over a fictional one reserved for the press, then that is simply one example of the possible uses of deception for a positive purpose. :)

[awakeningmom]

Thanks, Araucaria, I agree that the “major clinching discrepancy” is that the calls as advertised were totally impossible. But many 911 researchers over the years have ALREADY pointed that out. Roth now suggests that they were all made on a military base outside Boston. If true, this is a major new piece of the puzzle. But in order for it to be true, the various pieces should fit. So I’m trying to work out the kinks to that theory, first based on the oddities of the calls.

I can’t see how handlers could make the calls to close family members and not have the family member recognize the caller as a fake – although I suppose handlers could make calls to “reservations” or 911 operators (but again, wouldn’t the recorded voices be analyzed later by those who knew the victims well? I think that’s why Griffin focused on existing voice morphing technology). I also agree you cannot control every syllable that comes out – but why would a flight attendant say: “I see buildings, I see water” or a passenger say: “we’re over Ohio” to his mother, minutes from impact into the WTC? If these were scripted to be intentionally confusing/illogical calls (either by willing or forced participants), what’s the point of this? Why not tell a story that supports the official narrative? Was it to buy time? To make sure that whatever actually hit the WTC actually got there? Clearly no-one is seeing unidentifiable water/buildings when/if they are tucked away in a hangar on a military base.

The mounds of intentional disinfo surrounding this psy-op has certainly made me throw my hands up in defeat and disgust more than once – and maybe focusing on specific details of the crime scenes again will just result in more frustration. But Roth is giving us a new puzzle piece to ponder – and I guess I’m just looking for some brainstorming about whether -- and how -- this puzzle piece fits in with the pieces we already (think we) have.

That is true: she cannot claim to be the first in pointing out the impossibility of cellphone calls; but she takes credit for fleshing out the story to enable a lot of new people to overcome their cognitive dissonance. Her main breakthrough, as you say, is in naming the airfield where all the timelines come together and as one where personnel were locked out. She doesn’t have to correctly explain every detail to be right on the basic scenario, which is apparently partially confirmed by locked out personnel. More research could be done in that direction. Her other major contribution to this, I believe, is removing a stumbling-block by identifying the Mitre corporation and its technology for falsifying radar screen data both by removing real flight paths and inventing fictitious ones .

I perhaps feel more comfortable than you do in the gray area between fact and fiction. I think the choice of writing a thriller novel has more than simply self-protection on the one hand and engaging the reader on the other. It is an integral part of how we operate, for good and bad, and in a sense it is the middle ground, the no man’s land that we need to snatch back out of the wrong hands. Let me explain how this works.

Spoiler warning.
In a sense, removing real paths and inventing fictitious ones is what Roth herself has done: her real data is ‘only’ reconstructed’, and she has added Dan Brown-type fictitious data of her own. These are what I call things in her grocery list that are not groceries, namely the whole presentday terrorist attack scenario grafted onto the old 911 story. I don’t know how much is true for instance about the Mossad people in Paris lavishly entertaining flight attendants. If it were true back then, then when you later find flight attendants playing a key role, you would expect to find infiltration at this level, with some of these ladies acting compliantly after maybe being selected to perform a drill (asked to work a given flight). I don’t know exactly how this would work, but you would expect a return on investment on the jewellery and expensive clothes and other ‘free lunches’. This is an area Rebekah Roth does not go into. She has a character who is a little one-dimensional and whom she maybe would not have killed off so quickly had she rounded her out more.

At some stage, this fictional part slips back into reality. I take it, for instance, that airport security is indeed as slack as Rebekah Roth claims, on the levels she mentions: elevator use, duty-free shop assistants, passenger wheelchairs, or how flight crews spend their free time in foreign capitals. Any anti-terrorist measures worthy of the name would have to see off-duty airline personnel as a security risk and replace the secret recording of a lover misbehaving directly with secret recordings of possible suspects behaving suspiciously. But again this talk about now, not 911, is precisely where Rebekah is making inroads. Her fiction takes us out of purely historical research and segues into where we are at right now, and where we would like to be in the very near future. It is uplifting not just for the extra piece it adds to the puzzle, but also for the positive next step that she sketches in. What she is doing is actually taking a leaf out of the cabal’s book: you start with a desired goal, you work out a plan, and then you make it happen, you turn your fiction into reality. That is the next step here: we could, for example, find a politician unbeholden to anybody and put him in the White House or some other powerful position. As this will likely involve deception, like superimposing a real state-of-the-union speech over a fictional one reserved for the press, then that is simply one example of the possible uses of deception for a positive purpose. :)


Thank you for your response, Araucaria. I do love the way you write. 

However, I think we have to separate Rebekah Roth as the “whistleblower” doing the radio interviews and speaking on the real 911 as though she has pieced together some major missing pieces of the puzzle (and that is how she is presenting herself on these interviews), and her fictional take on it in Methodical Illusion, which obviously takes poetic license to advance her characters/arc/storyline.

With respect to Roth’s novel – I like your idea, which, if I understand it correctly, suggests that Roth’s fictional and idealistic solution(s) could, in fact, become reality if enough people buy into her positive outcome. This certainly appeals to me (and is one of the reasons I sometimes read “hopium” like David Wilcock’s, despite not really believing it anymore). Researching how thoughts/intentions can become reality has recently become an interest of mine – I suppose it’s the next level of my late-to-the-party awakening. :) And I see how fiction can -- and does -- often act as a catalyst for world-changing views -- can it also act as a catalyst for literal reality shifting too? I certainly hope so, in this instance!

On the other hand, I think many people who have actually done the rabbit hole/911 research have (or will have) a hard time believing in Roth’s seemingly naïve/unrealistic ending, despite wanting to. I admit that, cynic that I’ve become in the last two years since I’ve formed my own understanding of how/why 911 was not only allowed to happen but why it still hasn’t been properly investigated 14 years and a new administration later, I hoped for a more complex, believable ending, with solutions I could bite off on. I was also disappointed that Roth seemed to buy into the false Democrat/Republican paradigm, where, in her novel, the Democrats were the ones ruining the country and overly beholden to the (unnamed but obvious) “foreign nation who isn’t really an ally.” This representation not only fails to reflect the current reality (with respect to which party now appears to be the greater supporter of this foreign nation), but it also puzzlingly ignores which party was at the helm (and neck-deep involved) when 911 happened. Someone who has researched 911 so deeply and who has also claimed (in several interviews) that she’s now traced the cabal “back to Babylon” clearly must know that the political/economic/military differences between the (national-level) Democrats and Republicans is simply kabuki theatre for the masses. But yes, I realize she presented this world view in a novel -- and perhaps she simply wrote her novel this way to appeal to readers who might not otherwise be willing to read her book and consider her premises. Or maybe she’s saving that further trip down the cabal’s rabbit hole for book 2. 

But my request for brainstorming about the odd calls and Roth’s military base theory was about the real event, and not the novel. This event is personal for me on a very deep level. I want to get to the truth of it, want to find the missing pieces, no matter how many years it takes. Futile? Unrealistic given the powerful forces invested in suppressing the truth? Maybe. Still, I’m grateful to Roth the whistleblower, for providing a new, plausible theory, and for re-energizing the truth movement, which seems to have lost momentum judging by the last-posted dates on many 911 truth websites (no surprise, given the 14 years that have passed without any mass awakening or calls for justice – but I’m only 2 years in). I hope that Bill’s argument about “territoriality” isn’t completely true – and that many honest 911 researchers will take her theory seriously enough to at least research it further themselves.

[araucaria]

Thank you awakeningmom.
I personally don’t need to have worked out every element in such exquisite detail as a prosecution lawyer might need to, but you reach a point when you are beyond any reasonable doubt and know there are people who know more. William James said that for verification, verifiability is usually enough. The next step when democratic processes are involved is to build up a sufficient constituency to move forward, which is what I see Rebekah Roth as contributing towards. Getting the bullet points across is not simply a matter of a well thought-out powerpoint presentation. Maybe for you it is, but for the vast majority, something else is needed – something less, along with something more.

You have the same issue with Edward Snowden’s material. Edward who? John Oliver has a highly unorthodox interviewing style that caters especially for the thousands and millions whose only concern is over who gets their grubby hands on their precious “dick pics”. It may be rather sad and unsavoury that this is how it works, but hey, let’s just get the job done. This is not “hopium”: we are talking about getting a job done, which means joining in as opposed to watching from the sidelines.


the latest ...

Last Week Tonight with John Oliver: Government Surveillance

"There are very few government checks on what America’s sweeping surveillance programs are capable of doing. John Oliver sits down with Edward Snowden to discuss the NSA, the balance between privacy and security, and dick-pics."

Published on Apr 5, 2015


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XEVlyP4_11M

[awakeningmom]

Thank you awakeningmom.
I personally don’t need to have worked out every element in such exquisite detail as a prosecution lawyer might need to, but you reach a point when you are beyond any reasonable doubt and know there are people who know more. William James said that for verification, verifiability is usually enough. The next step when democratic processes are involved is to build up a sufficient constituency to move forward, which is what I see Rebekah Roth as contributing towards. Getting the bullet points across is not simply a matter of a well thought-out powerpoint presentation. Maybe for you it is, but for the vast majority, something else is needed – something less, along with something more.

You have the same issue with Edward Snowden’s material. Edward who? John Oliver has a highly unorthodox interviewing style that caters especially for the thousands and millions whose only concern is over who gets their grubby hands on their precious “dick pics”. It may be rather sad and unsavoury that this is how it works, but hey, let’s just get the job done. This is not “hopium”: we are talking about getting a job done, which means joining in as opposed to watching from the sidelines.


the latest ...

Last Week Tonight with John Oliver: Government Surveillance

"There are very few government checks on what America’s sweeping surveillance programs are capable of doing. John Oliver sits down with Edward Snowden to discuss the NSA, the balance between privacy and security, and dick-pics."

Published on Apr 5, 2015


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XEVlyP4_11M

Yes, but details still matter quite a bit when it comes to 911. They mattered to me when I was first exposed to the alternative version of 911, a version which I could not believe at first exposure. But it was the details that slowly made me change my mind. Watching the AE911truth video about Building 7, reading about each alleged crime scene, discovering how there were “put options,” how the Pentagon was conveniently struck in the area where the Office of Special Investigations was located, etc. etc. These details mattered to me 2 years ago, and they matter to most people who are just awakening to the truth. And I would think details matter even to those who have been researching this from the start. Isn’t that why Roth’s new information is causing so much excitement? She’s providing us with new details about how it could have happened.

I’m definitely beyond a reasonable doubt, and yes sometimes getting bogged down on the details can derail the larger picture (e.g, fighting over whether it was nanothermite, or DEW’s or nuclear weapons, etc.) or fail to move the world forward to a more positive future. But the details still matter in helping to solve the whole whodunnit – and isn’t that key here? For example, don’t the details about the military base lead us to important questions that might actually have answers? Like who ordered the base closed that day? What was the official reason for closing it? Who was still permitted on the base? How many were on the base? Since the evidence clearly suggests that certain factions of the military, FAA, NORAD, CIA/FBI etc, were in on this entire psy-op, do the details get us a bit closer to who those factions actually are? I certainly believe most of us want to believe it was ONLY a faction of each of these agencies/organizations that were part of this -- and thus that a clean-up on some level is still possible. Indeed, unless we believe that it was only certain factions, factions that can be weeded out/brought to justice/transcended, we might as well give up -- because Roth's Joel Sherman doesn't exist without that scenario.

I’m not sure what your point is about Snowden here? Guess I’ll have to watch the entire video. In general, I avoid both John Oliver and Jon Stewart these days. While I used to like them, I realized they are nothing more than left gatekeepers. For example, roughly 3 and a half minutes in to his shtick, Oliver makes the false claim that the Patriot Act was written soon AFTER 911. Yeah, ok.

[Dennis Leahy]

... or fail to move the world forward to a more positive future. But the details still matter in helping to solve the whole whodunnit – and isn’t that key here?...

I used to think so. Solve 9/11, indict and prosecute the perps, live happily ever after. Right?

First of all, enough of it has been solved (as was the case with the JFK hit) where something drastic should already have been done. Enough, that is, IF we lived in a world where most of the people in power were really good, high-integrity people, and that there is just a small malevolent cadre, a rogue element to be dealt with. Reality is quite a bit uglier than that. There may be a small handful of good people (good, but utterly ineffective) in positions of high office in the USA, but no more than a handful. There are around 1500 people in the US government at or near the top tier of governance - approximately 500 in each of the 3 branches - that make and enforce and adjudicate policy. These people were virtually ALL hand-selected by the corporatist-militarist-bankster Elite as compliant puppets (and it will remain this way until and unless a drastic citizen's movement (http://www.resetbuttonmovement.org/) changes the rules.) These people are all guilty of 911, all are complicit in the role of cover-up if they were not also involved is planning and execution (most of those involved in planning and execution are now out of office, other than the military and black-ops people who are not subject to election cycles.)

Figure out 9/11 - the whole damn thing. Figure out where the mini-nukes were placed and who placed them, and who made them (or DEWs if you insist on believing in them.) Figure out what type of missile hit the Pentagon and what type of military aircraft shot it. Figure out exactly which passengers now reside in underground D.U.M.B bases, and which ones got a bullet to the head and are decomposing underground. Figure out any details you want. It won't matter. Too few care, too many are too dumbed-down to notice. Most are afraid to do anything about it - and quite frankly, there is no existing mechanism to bring them to justice.

There is no sweat dripping from the brows of the corporatist-militarist-bankster Elite or any of their minions. They are in complete control. Their guilt is meaningless in a system of their design and under their control, where they control the police, the FBI, the CIA, the federal prosecutors, and the entire judicial branch of government (as well as the legislative and executive.) They control what is said in the mass media (and what is unspoken), and they control what is written in the history books.

With all due respect and a tip of the hat to Rebekah Roth, none of it matters. The perps are "going to Disneyland!", not to prison. Even the political dissidents and activists in the US are either completely confused about what it would take to oust the malevolent minions of the Elite and change the system so the corporatist-militarist-bankster Elite cannot simply hire a new cadre of puppets, or are left gatekeepers (wittingly or unwittingly.)

Figure it out - ALL IF IT, EVERY FACET of 9/11 - but do it knowing you did it for your own mind, not because "the truth will set us free." The truth is that we citizens have absolutely no control over anything, regardless what knowledge and insights we possess or how much of the truth we've uncovered. We made a HUGE tactical mistake: we let the bad guys gain complete control of the entire electoral paradigm, and so they filled, (and will continue to fill), every seat of high office with their lackeys. We ordinary citizens have no legislative representation, a judicial system that protects the Elite and persecutes ordinary citizens, and a Zionist-Nazi-militarist-globalist-corporatist-bankster cluster of sockpuppets we call "our" executive branch.

Truth isn't power.

[ulli]

Waking up means dropping one's illusions. And that brings automatically a new attitude- one which brings changes in one's habits. Even if we don't go marching the streets carrying banners our new habits will still impact the elite and even ruin their plans. Ok, the economy will suffer, jobs will be lost, and eventually people will form new groups at the grassroots level where barter becomes the norm. New inventions in food production, inner city rooftop farming, and then comes the discovery that a united vision of a united community can produce some interesting results, to do with metaphysical phenomena.
Consciousness is then the key to the new world. As each person becomes more aware of the forces battling around them they will seek and find their inner place of balance, from where their creativity will pour, and they can rejoice in creating their utopia. I know it works. Let the break-away civilization break off and be gone. Good luck to them.

[awakeningmom]

... or fail to move the world forward to a more positive future. But the details still matter in helping to solve the whole whodunnit – and isn’t that key here?...

I used to think so. Solve 9/11, indict and prosecute the perps, live happily ever after. Right?

First of all, enough of it has been solved (as was the case with the JFK hit) where something drastic should already have been done. Enough, that is, IF we lived in a world where most of the people in power were really good, high-integrity people, and that there is just a small malevolent cadre, a rogue element to be dealt with. Reality is quite a bit uglier than that. There may be a small handful of good people (good, but utterly ineffective) in positions of high office in the USA, but no more than a handful. There are around 1500 people in the US government at or near the top tier of governance - approximately 500 in each of the 3 branches - that make and enforce and adjudicate policy. These people were virtually ALL hand-selected by the corporatist-militarist-bankster Elite as compliant puppets (and it will remain this way until and unless a drastic citizen's movement (http://www.resetbuttonmovement.org/) changes the rules.) These people are all guilty of 911, all are complicit in the role of cover-up if they were not also involved is planning and execution (most of those involved in planning and execution are now out of office, other than the military and black-ops people who are not subject to election cycles.)

Figure out 9/11 - the whole damn thing. Figure out where the mini-nukes were placed and who placed them, and who made them (or DEWs if you insist on believing in them.) Figure out what type of missile hit the Pentagon and what type of military aircraft shot it. Figure out exactly which passengers now reside in underground D.U.M.B bases, and which ones got a bullet to the head and are decomposing underground. Figure out any details you want. It won't matter. Too few care, too many are too dumbed-down to notice. Most are afraid to do anything about it - and quite frankly, there is no existing mechanism to bring them to justice.

There is no sweat dripping from the brows of the corporatist-militarist-bankster Elite or any of their minions. They are in complete control. Their guilt is meaningless in a system of their design and under their control, where they control the police, the FBI, the CIA, the federal prosecutors, and the entire judicial branch of government (as well as the legislative and executive.) They control what is said in the mass media (and what is unspoken), and they control what is written in the history books.

With all due respect and a tip of the hat to Rebekah Roth, none of it matters. The perps are "going to Disneyland!", not to prison. Even the political dissidents and activists in the US are either completely confused about what it would take to oust the malevolent minions of the Elite and change the system so the corporatist-militarist-bankster Elite cannot simply hire a new cadre of puppets, or are left gatekeepers (wittingly or unwittingly.)

Figure it out - ALL IF IT, EVERY FACET of 9/11 - but do it knowing you did it for your own mind, not because "the truth will set us free." The truth is that we citizens have absolutely no control over anything, regardless what knowledge and insights we possess or how much of the truth we've uncovered. We made a HUGE tactical mistake: we let the bad guys gain complete control of the entire electoral paradigm, and so they filled, (and will continue to fill), every seat of high office with their lackeys. We ordinary citizens have no legislative representation, a judicial system that protects the Elite and persecutes ordinary citizens, and a Zionist-Nazi-militarist-globalist-corporatist-bankster cluster of sockpuppets we call "our" executive branch.

Truth isn't power.


Dennis,

I’m afraid everything you say is likely true – and it’s what I fear I believe deep down as well. That the game is already lost and the truth will get me/us nowhere.

But perhaps that’s why I’ve now started to look into consciousness, energetics, and the metaphysical. And perhaps that’s why others have as well? It seems that the metaphysical is the only potential game changing move we may have left. So I come to places like PA where I can read posts from people who claim they have had these supernatural/metaphysical experiences/insights and who seem to think we still have a fighting chance if we can collectively raise our consciousness, change our reality, understand and then exit the Matrix, etc. Not sure what that means exactly or how to make it happen, particularly since, as you say, most people don’t care or have been too dumbed down to care….But there are certainly quite a few people (many of them are on PA, it would seem) who believe that thoughts can become manifest and that changing/affecting reality in this way is possible.

Is it all a PTB-initiated trap to keep us docile and unorganized? My own current inability to have OBE’s, to see UFO’s, to communicate with aliens, etc. tells me maybe it is. I certainly have not yet seen any real evidence of my own power to change reality with my thoughts or intentions (but maybe I’m just doing it wrong :)). But, given that the bad guys are in almost complete control now (perhaps through our “tactical errors,” as you say, although I kind of believe we never had any real say-so in who would run the country long before the Diebold machines or hanging chads or any other fairly modern illusions of choice), I figure it’s worth a shot to look into this energetic /metaphysical /consciousness solution a little further.

Maybe it is just false hope. I don’t believe in Blue Avian beings coming to rescue us or savior gods returning to sort this whole ugly mess out. But there does seem to be a long-history of prophets, sages, occultists, shamans, and scientists who have insisted that all is not what it seems, that mankind only sees a sliver of the entire reality, and that energetics/frequencies mean something important that we are being prevented from fully understanding.

And there does seem to be a heck of a lot of effort to monitor us and to dumb us down – which to me suggests some level of fear on the part of the PTB (in addition to their psychopathic desire for total control). Is it simply their rational fear of our numbers? Or our potential ability to make our own world-ending weapons and become rival “gods” if we were smart enough to understand physics on the level that they do? Perhaps.

Or is there something else going on here? Is this whole ”PTB’s fear our awakening” just another deception to keep us powerlessly practicing meditation or learning the tarot while they complete the take-over of Planet Earth – or is there something to this "fear our awakening" assertion? I have no answers yet, but since I basically agree with you that we’ve already lost the game to the military-industrial-bankster Elite, and they aren't sweating our mass discovery of 911 or any other horrific false flag/assassination, I’m still hoping there are other levels of awakening that truly have the power to alter this clearly uneven chess match.

[araucaria]

and it’s what I fear I believe deep down as well. That the game is already lost and the truth will get me/us nowhere.
(…)
Or is there something else going on here?
Either you haven’t overcome the cognitive dissonance as much as you think, or you are otherwise clinging on. Imagine a cheating partner. The big lie is established; how much detail needs to be sifted through in the light of this one highly disturbing fact will depend on who you are, but there comes a point when you don’t want to know any more horrifying detail, you are thoroughly sick, and you just walk out.

There was a time when I had a recurring nightmarish dream in which I ended up dying. Then I started having a lucid moment that woke me out of the dream: I knew where it was heading and had had enough. This happened earlier and earlier until I stopped having the dream altogether. Presumably this was reflecting something I had been becoming lucid about in waking life. This is what we are doing on a collective basis, and the awake and aware are that streak of lucidity stirring the body out of its slumber. Whether, or rather how quickly, we wake up will decide how uncomfortable the awakening is going to be, but one thing is sure: the dreamer is going to wake up because he simply cannot die (maybe he is perversely rebelling against, or momentarily tiring of, his immortality. :))

The hopium, you say, is wearing off: yes, and the despairium is about to run out too. The nuts and bolts of the ‘cabal’istics will suddenly fade into meaninglessness when you fall out of bed :)

[awakeningmom]

and it’s what I fear I believe deep down as well. That the game is already lost and the truth will get me/us nowhere.
(…)
Or is there something else going on here?
Either you haven’t overcome the cognitive dissonance as much as you think, or you are otherwise clinging on. Imagine a cheating partner. The big lie is established; how much detail needs to be sifted through in the light of this one highly disturbing fact will depend on who you are, but there comes a point when you don’t want to know any more horrifying detail, you are thoroughly sick, and you just walk out.

There was a time when I had a recurring nightmarish dream in which I ended up dying. Then I started having a lucid moment that woke me out of the dream: I knew where it was heading and had had enough. This happened earlier and earlier until I stopped having the dream altogether. Presumably this was reflecting something I had been becoming lucid about in waking life. This is what we are doing on a collective basis, and the awake and aware are that streak of lucidity stirring the body out of its slumber. Whether, or rather how quickly, we wake up will decide how uncomfortable the awakening is going to be, but one thing is sure: the dreamer is going to wake up because he simply cannot die (maybe he is perversely rebelling against, or momentarily tiring of, his immortality. :))

The hopium, you say, is wearing off: yes, and the despairium is about to run out too. The nuts and bolts of the ‘cabal’istics will suddenly fade into meaninglessness when you fall out of bed :)

Sorry, Araucaria, I'm not sure what you mean here -- did I say I that I had overcome cognitive dissonance somewhere ("as much as I think")? Hardly. But the "incongruous" beliefs or attitudes that cause whatever psychological conflict I have have changed. It went from: "There's no way our own government could be behind 911-- it had to be the 19 Muslims as we have been told" conflicting with "the evidence certainly suggests the government was behind 911" in 2013 -- to my current internal conflict, which is: "finding out who was actually behind 911 might help us weed out the bad guys, turn this world around, and help me with my own closure over this event" conflicting with "but this thing has gone unchallenged and unpunished for almost 14 years -- it seems like the people behind 911 control everything and will never be brought to justice -- and I will never know the truth."

With respect to the desparium over never finding out the truth or bringing the murderers to justice, I guess my current coping mechanism is clinging to the hope (which is not yet anything resembling belief) that there's something else going on here that can transcend this entirely corrupt system -- i.e., a change in vibration, frequency, consicousness, etc. It could be bunk, but I think turning to this metaphysical possibility is a natural stage for many who have started to "awaken", although you may be far beyond this stage yourself.

But why do I personally cling to wanting to know the details even if a larger part of my brain believes that this was pulled off by too many high-ups in government/military/etc to ever unravel completely or bring consequences? Perhaps because, as I said, the event was very personal to me, having lost a very dear friend on one of the planes that day. I haven't reached the point of completely walking away from wanting the details of this "sordid affair" yet, though perhaps I will get there -- in my own time.

I don't know what you mean by your last sentence: "The nuts and bolts of the ‘cabal’istics will suddenly fade into meaninglessness when you fall out of bed" -- can you explain? Is this a higher state of awakening that you have experienced, where none of it matters anymore? I guess I'm confused by your belief that Roth advanced some positive change by her fictional solution -- and your thoughts here. Does inventing fictional happy endings change reality at some point, in your view?

[Slorri]

TSC EPISODE 011: METHODICAL ILLUSION WITH REBEKAH ROTH: THE TRUTH ABOUT 9/11
APRIL 16, 2015 PATRICIA LANGER

http://thesupernaturalchristian.com/tsc-episode-011-methodical-illusion-with-rebekah-roth-the-truth-about-911/

[Tangri]

[QUOTE


So I’m trying to work out the kinks to that theory, first based on the oddities of the calls.

I can’t see how handlers could make the calls to close family members and not have the family member recognize the caller as a fake – although I suppose handlers could make calls to “reservations” or 911 operators (but again, wouldn’t the recorded voices be analyzed later by those who knew the victims well? I think that’s why Griffin focused on existing voice morphing technology). I also agree you cannot control every syllable that comes out – but why would a flight attendant say: “I see buildings, I see water” or a passenger say: “we’re over Ohio” to his mother, minutes from impact into the WTC? If these were scripted to be intentionally confusing/illogical calls (either by willing or forced participants), what’s the point of this? Why not tell a story that supports the official narrative? Was it to buy time? To make sure that whatever actually hit the WTC actually got there? Clearly no-one is seeing unidentifiable water/buildings when/if they are tucked away in a hangar on a military base.



I believe, operation wasn't smooth as it's original plan as, and needed to be edited few times after the event. Phone calls were at earliest stage and couldn't predicted it's effects, on last edition end.(producer's cuts, not director's)

[Bill Ryan]

I don’t have all the details of the phone calls, but it seems to me the simplest solution would be in some cases at least for the handlers to confiscate cellphones and make the calls themselves.

What happened, according to Rebekah Roth (and I completely agree with all her deductions) is this:



All four planes landed soon after take-off at Westover Air Force Base, very near Boston and Newark.
The passengers were told by handlers on each plane that this was all a drill.
The calls were made on the ground from inside a large hangar.
They were made under instruction (possibly coercion), and were at least semi-scripted. (That this was so very poorly done has enabled all this to be pieced together now.)
Some of those who made the calls realized something was badly amiss, genuinely feared for their lives at the time (but for different reasons!), and left significant clues — hoping others would pick them up. This has now happened, at last.
No voice-morphing was involved. The calls were really made... but outside of the plane, in upstairs offices in the hangar.
All the passengers were killed very soon after. (Rebekah Roth speculates that this was done with hydrogen cyanide in the sealed fuselages.)
All the planes were replaced with drones or dummies of some kind, for the remainder of the planned incident.

[Cidersomerset]

Quote Posted by awakeningmom (here)

I don’t have all the details of the phone calls, but it seems to me the simplest solution would be in some cases at least for the handlers to confiscate cellphones and make the calls themselves.
What happened, according to Rebekah Roth (and I completely agree with all her deductions) is this:

1.All four planes landed soon after take-off at Westover Air Force Base, very near Boston and Newark.
2.The passengers were told by handlers on each plane that this was all a drill.
3.The calls were made on the ground from inside a large hangar.
4.They were made under instruction (possibly coercion), and were at least semi-scripted. (That this was so very poorly done has enabled all this to be pieced together now.)
5.Some of those who made the calls realized something was badly amiss, genuinely feared for their lives at the time (but for different reasons!), and left significant clues — hoping others would pick them up. This has now happened, at last.
6.No voice-morphing was involved. The calls were really made... but outside of the plane, in upstairs offices in the hangar.
7.All the passengers were killed very soon after. (Rebekah Roth speculates that this was done with hydrogen cyanide in the sealed fuselages.)
8.All the planes were replaced with drones or dummies of some kind, for the remainder of the planned incident.


Thanks Bill good clear Bullet point summery , and now you have set me off on a
find the most recent Rebekah Roth interview...Doh !..LOL




This is a round table discussion talking about various subjects , its more of a
coffee table discussion and tying various subjects together , by the sound of
the opening chat......Aprox 6 min in Rebekah comments on the German wings
crash in her first exchange with some interesting observations , including CERN..........


Blood Moons, Airbus ConCERN's, Lucifer Device & 9/11 Methodical Illusion w/Rebekah Roth

TruthTube451 (AKA MrGlasgowTruther)

6D8wol_kRCU

Published on 5 Apr 2015


This is one Freaky Friday you do not want to miss. Fresh from blowing us away with
her show on 9/11 last week, Rebekah returns, this time for Freaky Friday!

The Woo Crew of Joe Joseph​, Popeye Dtrh​, Martin Hardy​, Johnny Whistles​, Red Pill
Reports​ JD Moore, Kev Baker​ and maybe more will be taking Rebekah into the
realms of the deepest of “WOO”!

On the eve of the third Blood Moon, we will be exploring the more ritualistic aspects
of 9/11, the occult, secret societies, upcoming false flags, hidden human origins
and more!!

website: www.methodicalillusion.com

Tune into The Kev Baker Show, Monday to Thursday on www.truthfrequencyradio.com/listen-live

Join the facebook @ www.facebook.com/truthtube451Kev Baker Show

Kev Baker has been on the front lines since 2009. Hailing from Glasgow, Scotland,
Kev was recently featured in VICE magazine as a front-line consultant and expert
on activist groups in the United Kingdom. You can listen to Kev Baker on AM/FM in
Colorado, Oregan, California, Sydney and London or tune into any of the TFR
internet streams or listening options.

Kev Baker has set his mark as a professional broadcaster by featuring cutting edge
analysis, current events and breaking news. However he does not stop there!
Together with his co-hosts Johnny Whistles and Martin Hardy, Kev is joined by a
great panel of expert researchers and whistleblowers in the field of space
technology, metaphysics, human origins, black operations and international terrorism.

Seeking the answers to age old questions and dechipering the world around you
painted by the mainstream media.. this is the Kev Baker Show!

====================================================

C E R N logo is 666 ....uhm ! I'm sure I knew this and in the first hour in the above
discussion they speculate if CERN might of had something to do with the German
wings crash....

http://www.menphis75.com/images/foto_varie/Cern-666.JPG
https://reasoningconspiracy.files.wordpress.com/2015/04/cern-666.png

[araucaria]

(…)
I don't know what you mean by your last sentence: "The nuts and bolts of the ‘cabal’istics will suddenly fade into meaninglessness when you fall out of bed" -- can you explain? Is this a higher state of awakening that you have experienced, where none of it matters anymore? I guess I'm confused by your belief that Roth advanced some positive change by her fictional solution -- and your thoughts here. Does inventing fictional happy endings change reality at some point, in your view?

awakeningmom, I am really sorry that you lost someone on 911; I am afraid it didn’t fully register with me until now, my apologies. (I also need to apologize for taking a whole week to get back to this.) I can imagine that things others say, myself included, would appear pretty insensitive when one is in that position. But the only purpose in going over this stuff is to put an end to the innocent deaths being perpetrated by the authors of this kind of atrocity.
As you say, this cabal involves ‘too many high-ups’ to be a simple matter of ‘bringing the murderers to justice’, as you also say. Here is why the ‘nuts and bolts’ (the physical mechanics) of the situation at some stage lose the relevance they undoubtedly also have. The issue is information overload: it is well known that once you start down the rabbit-hole, you soon find it is endless. Human justice tries people one at a time, and whether convicted or not, they are merely heads lopped off the hundred-headed monster.

First, you have to see the cabal behind 911 as the same people behind the UFO coverup – the so-called ‘breakaway civilization’ (Richard Dolan) who have been back engineering alien technology for sixty years. (They are the same people as the banksters behind the financial crisis.) What this means is that some aspects of 911 may be inexplicable in terms of known technological capabilities: this is the position of Judy Wood for example. She is not entirely convinced by the mini-nuke theory; however the mini-nuke theory has the advantage of making everything clear in terms of what the general public is able to understand, by tracking outdated nuclear material transiting through Israeli embassies and all the way to detonation. This may not be the full story, but it works in terms of what is supposed to be known. Likewise, it doesn’t matter if public understanding stops at the idea that cellphone calls were impossible, provided it takes that fact on board; it would only add needless complexity to say that they were actually possible by some clandestine means, since that would in any case only point to guilt and not innocence. So the first point is that any forensic investigation on which a criminal trial can be based will come unstuck when the trail goes underground – hence the need to catch the perpetrators before this happens. This is maybe where the breakaway civilization shows its limits: it already has one foot in this breakaway reality; why it doesn’t break away altogether is likely because it is parasitical and to become totally detached would kill it. In that case, the host has two ways of detaching a parasite: either it dies itself, or it develops a deterrent. It is towards the latter solution that the 911 truth, the UFO disclosure and other such movements are converging. It cannot happen at this nuts-and-bolts ‘hardware’ level: the star wars campaign is the problem, not the solution.

The second point is this ‘software’ ‘mind over matter’ aspect, where forensic investigation is ruled out from the getgo. This is the other aspect of the conspiracy, which includes psychic abilities and mind control to channel those abilities towards nefarious ends. Charles Fort talks about ‘wild talents’, ‘witchcraft’ and ‘poltergeist girls’ to describe the kind of paranormal activity that is going on all the time – he cites hundreds (thousands) of examples to prove it. His examples are very minor; but ramp up the phenomenon to the scale of the afore-described cabal: it leads to all kinds of nefarious psy activities such as MKultra and super soldiers.

Take for example ‘spontaneous human combustion’: a person is burnt to a tiny pile of ash while the chair they were sitting on remains intact. Charles Fort suggest that what has happened is a murderous hate thought that was directed by someone at the person, and since nothing but the person was visualized nothing else was affected. It would seem that something similar happened at the World Trade Center: one of the issues with the mini-nuke hypothesis is the fact that the ‘bath tub’ – the section below the water level of the Hudson River – remained intact when it had no right to do so. The whole area should have been flooded.

If such witchcraft were available to someone on a much grander scale, then it would be pointless wondering whether a planeload of people were gassed and incinerated when they could be eliminated virtually without trace by such means. I am aware of the parallel with trainloads of Jews: this would be the exact antithesis of ‘Holocaust denial on material grounds’. Some people say the Holocaust could not have happened on the scale that is claimed in the manner described. Part of the problem in establishing the exact scale is that it is so huge; and another part of the problem may be that the manner described is indeed too inadequate to be more than only half of the story. The other, occult half of the story is the get-out-of-jail joker in the hand that no one is supposed to know about.

I’ll leave it at that because, as I said, the ramifications become so huge and complex that they tend to paralyze rational thought.

[SKIBADABOMSKI]

I don’t have all the details of the phone calls, but it seems to me the simplest solution would be in some cases at least for the handlers to confiscate cellphones and make the calls themselves.

What happened, according to Rebekah Roth (and I completely agree with all her deductions) is this:



All four planes landed soon after take-off at Westover Air Force Base, very near Boston and Newark.
The passengers were told by handlers on each plane that this was all a drill.
The calls were made on the ground from inside a large hangar.
They were made under instruction (possibly coercion), and were at least semi-scripted. (That this was so very poorly done has enabled all this to be pieced together now.)
Some of those who made the calls realized something was badly amiss, genuinely feared for their lives at the time (but for different reasons!), and left significant clues — hoping others would pick them up. This has now happened, at last.
No voice-morphing was involved. The calls were really made... but outside of the plane, in upstairs offices in the hangar.
All the passengers were killed very soon after. (Rebekah Roth speculates that this was done with hydrogen cyanide in the sealed fuselages.)
All the planes were replaced with drones or dummies of some kind, for the remainder of the planned incident.


I still have this theory drilled into my head from somewhere..

1. They simply made up the flights and the four planes didn't actually exist. None of the said planes took off from said airports and none of the people that were said to of died actually died in the planes. (making up names and having a few gravestones and a few grievers would cover all of that) plus having some fake phone calls.
2. The planes that hit the towers were the only two planes that were needed and they had more if a mistake was made. They were flew into the towers by remote control // Or they used missiles that were dressed up as planes and had more.. either way they had what looked like planes hitting the towers.
3. The towers were hit and then brought down by demolition.
4. The missile hitting the Pentagon was where they really screwed this up and the missile in the field was a joke.
5. Tower 7 being pulled was a crazy mistake meaning the towers were also pulled.

They could of pulled this off with the same effect by evacuating the towers saying that a plane was on it's way to smash into it. Everyone would of escaped and the firemen would of survived. Everyone would see the second plane hit and this would still of had a massive impact and a few would of been caught up in the mess but then the with the numbers of deaths being so low the focus on each person whom died would of been tough to cover so they sadly let the people in the towers die knowing that a sudden impact would cause an estimated 4,000 deaths. It was lower but it was enough to just ramble out those names and mix in the made up ones from the planes themselves.

This has been what I have been led to believe after all these years.

[ThePythonicCow]

1. They simply made up the flights and the four planes didn't actually exist. None of the said planes took off from said airports and none of the people that were said to of died actually died in the planes. (making up names and having a few gravestones and a few grievers would cover all of that) plus having some fake phone calls.
I tend to agree with quite a bit else that you lay out, but if you listen to (or read) Rebekah Roth closely, I think that she has connected the dots on what happened to those flights and the people on them far better than anyone else has.

[Cidersomerset]

Rebekah Roth exposes israeli involvement in Sept 11 attacks

UITbE9HXJdg

Published on 31 Mar 2015


Amazing interview detailing israeli operations surrounding the 9-11 September
11th 2001 attacks on the WTC building. The Gold theft, The dual citizens
involved and the subsequent cover-up by the official narrative. We are supposed
to blame MUSLIMS, yet the 19 hijackers had a passport factory to re-produce
ANY identity of ANY person living or dead.

This is part 2 of the bbsradio.com Interview with Steve Johnson.
Rebekah Roths' Youtube channel: Please Subscribe:
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCYz_...

========================================
========================================

The Liberty Brothers Interview 9-11 author Rebekah Roth

rqQejvy8yXQ

Published on 13 Apr 2015


Some incredible new insight into 9-11 from an aviation insider and author Rebekah Roth.

[SKIBADABOMSKI]

1. They simply made up the flights and the four planes didn't actually exist. None of the said planes took off from said airports and none of the people that were said to of died actually died in the planes. (making up names and having a few gravestones and a few grievers would cover all of that) plus having some fake phone calls.
I tend to agree with quite a bit else that you lay out, but if you listen to (or read) Rebekah Roth closely, I think that she has connected the dots on what happened to those flights and the people on them far better than anyone else has.

I'm doing that now as I type. I may be back with a whole new perspective. It's been a while for me on this subject. And I have no idea why I quoted Bills post to write that.

Ok Rebekah.. lets have it.
:)

[iceni tribe]

Rebekah Roth
April 6 at 6:22pm ·

Just a little book update: The printers can not stop printing the first edition to put the second into a softback, so we are going to put the Methodical Illusion in a hard back and that should be available online and for autograph sales in a couple weeks. We had lots of requests for a hardback issue, so we are going to put the second edition with the new Foreword from the UAL B767 Captain and the endorsements from Barbara Honegger, Dr. Barrett, John B. Wells, Doug Hagmann and an AA pilot. So, hopefully the second edition will be out and it will only be on Kindle(which it is currently) and in the Hardback for a time, until the sales slow down enough for the printers to switch the softback to the second edition! LOTS of people are waking up and waking up others! The sequel is coming together too, and I hope to have it available near the end of summer!

Brave woman indeed.

[Tangri]

They could of pulled this off with the same effect by evacuating the towers saying that a plane was on it's way to smash into it. Everyone would of escaped and the firemen would of survived. Everyone would see the second plane hit and this would still of had a massive impact and a few would of been caught up in the mess but then the with the numbers of deaths being so low the focus on each person whom died would of been tough to cover so they sadly let the people in the towers die knowing that a sudden impact would cause an estimated 4,000 deaths. It was lower but it was enough to just ramble out those names and mix in the made up ones from the planes themselves.
This has been what I have been led to believe after all these years.

If there were no victims, they couldn't handle the containment of the questions storm after the event. They used "Don't upset grieving relatives!" excuse to silence horn voices. Also they would have had a lot witnesses.

[awakeningmom]

(…)
I don't know what you mean by your last sentence: "The nuts and bolts of the ‘cabal’istics will suddenly fade into meaninglessness when you fall out of bed" -- can you explain? Is this a higher state of awakening that you have experienced, where none of it matters anymore? I guess I'm confused by your belief that Roth advanced some positive change by her fictional solution -- and your thoughts here. Does inventing fictional happy endings change reality at some point, in your view?

awakeningmom, I am really sorry that you lost someone on 911; I am afraid it didn’t fully register with me until now, my apologies. (I also need to apologize for taking a whole week to get back to this.) I can imagine that things others say, myself included, would appear pretty insensitive when one is in that position. But the only purpose in going over this stuff is to put an end to the innocent deaths being perpetrated by the authors of this kind of atrocity.
As you say, this cabal involves ‘too many high-ups’ to be a simple matter of ‘bringing the murderers to justice’, as you also say. Here is why the ‘nuts and bolts’ (the physical mechanics) of the situation at some stage lose the relevance they undoubtedly also have. The issue is information overload: it is well known that once you start down the rabbit-hole, you soon find it is endless. Human justice tries people one at a time, and whether convicted or not, they are merely heads lopped off the hundred-headed monster.

First, you have to see the cabal behind 911 as the same people behind the UFO coverup – the so-called ‘breakaway civilization’ (Richard Dolan) who have been back engineering alien technology for sixty years. (They are the same people as the banksters behind the financial crisis.) What this means is that some aspects of 911 may be inexplicable in terms of known technological capabilities: this is the position of Judy Wood for example. She is not entirely convinced by the mini-nuke theory; however the mini-nuke theory has the advantage of making everything clear in terms of what the general public is able to understand, by tracking outdated nuclear material transiting through Israeli embassies and all the way to detonation. This may not be the full story, but it works in terms of what is supposed to be known. Likewise, it doesn’t matter if public understanding stops at the idea that cellphone calls were impossible, provided it takes that fact on board; it would only add needless complexity to say that they were actually possible by some clandestine means, since that would in any case only point to guilt and not innocence. So the first point is that any forensic investigation on which a criminal trial can be based will come unstuck when the trail goes underground – hence the need to catch the perpetrators before this happens. This is maybe where the breakaway civilization shows its limits: it already has one foot in this breakaway reality; why it doesn’t break away altogether is likely because it is parasitical and to become totally detached would kill it. In that case, the host has two ways of detaching a parasite: either it dies itself, or it develops a deterrent. It is towards the latter solution that the 911 truth, the UFO disclosure and other such movements are converging. It cannot happen at this nuts-and-bolts ‘hardware’ level: the star wars campaign is the problem, not the solution.

The second point is this ‘software’ ‘mind over matter’ aspect, where forensic investigation is ruled out from the getgo. This is the other aspect of the conspiracy, which includes psychic abilities and mind control to channel those abilities towards nefarious ends. Charles Fort talks about ‘wild talents’, ‘witchcraft’ and ‘poltergeist girls’ to describe the kind of paranormal activity that is going on all the time – he cites hundreds (thousands) of examples to prove it. His examples are very minor; but ramp up the phenomenon to the scale of the afore-described cabal: it leads to all kinds of nefarious psy activities such as MKultra and super soldiers.

Take for example ‘spontaneous human combustion’: a person is burnt to a tiny pile of ash while the chair they were sitting on remains intact. Charles Fort suggest that what has happened is a murderous hate thought that was directed by someone at the person, and since nothing but the person was visualized nothing else was affected. It would seem that something similar happened at the World Trade Center: one of the issues with the mini-nuke hypothesis is the fact that the ‘bath tub’ – the section below the water level of the Hudson River – remained intact when it had no right to do so. The whole area should have been flooded.

If such witchcraft were available to someone on a much grander scale, then it would be pointless wondering whether a planeload of people were gassed and incinerated when they could be eliminated virtually without trace by such means. I am aware of the parallel with trainloads of Jews: this would be the exact antithesis of ‘Holocaust denial on material grounds’. Some people say the Holocaust could not have happened on the scale that is claimed in the manner described. Part of the problem in establishing the exact scale is that it is so huge; and another part of the problem may be that the manner described is indeed too inadequate to be more than only half of the story. The other, occult half of the story is the get-out-of-jail joker in the hand that no one is supposed to know about.

I’ll leave it at that because, as I said, the ramifications become so huge and complex that they tend to paralyze rational thought.

Dear Araucaria,

Thank you for your thoughtful response. I really appreciate the acknowledgement of my personal loss. I guess I keep picking at these new theories like a half-healed wound, wanting closure, but just causing it to bleed again.

I agree the potential layers of involvement (both physical and perhaps metaphysical), are mind-boggling. And I can certainly believe that there was technology used that day that we mere mortals – i.e., those not existing as part of the elite/breakaway society -- can’t even really fathom. I also believe there were some powerful occult rituals being conducted around and for the purposes of manifesting that entire trauma-inducing event (as S.K. Bain writes about).

I can’t really buy into the large-scale ‘murderous hate thought’ aspects, though. First, if people are powerful enough to destroy buildings and thousands of innocents with their hate thoughts, then why are people like Dick Cheney, Donald Rumsfeld, or George Bush Jr. and Sr. still alive and kicking (assuming for the moment that they are not clones or non-humans)? Surely enough people all over the world, white wizards and muggles alike (and even those who don’t even question the official narrative) have directed powerful hate thoughts against these particular criminals for over a decade -- and still they persist, wreaking more havoc on the world, popping up in the MSM from time to time to play “terrorist expert,” and traumatizing us anew with the thought of another dangerous imbecile in the White House for 2016 (and I mean either presumed frontrunner here).

I mean, are the bad guys the only ones with the powerful manifesting thoughts here? How can a minority of evil psychopaths (estimated at 1-2% of the population, right?) have enough thought power to destroy steel beam towers – but we 99% (or whatever fraction thereof) can’t cause some ‘spontaneous combustion’ of our own? So we don’t have the high-tech they’ve squirreled away for themselves on our labor, tax dollars, and illicit drug/war money, but can’t we collectively think them away to a galaxy far far away? ;) Is that what you meant by them being gone (or meaningless) once we fall out of bed?

[gripreaper]

I mean, are the bad guys the only ones with the powerful manifesting thoughts here? How can a minority of evil psychopaths (estimated at 1-2% of the population, right?) have enough thought power to destroy steel beam towers – but we 99% (or whatever fraction thereof) can’t cause some ‘spontaneous combustion’ of our own?

We can if we realize our power, but we don't.

https://scontent-sea.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xft1/v/t1.0-9/10641188_10202706120363354_2452062800939714918_n.jpg?oh=eb4eb3b5526dc02d7250c83085806e5f&oe=55ABD950

[araucaria]

I mean, are the bad guys the only ones with the powerful manifesting thoughts here? How can a minority of evil psychopaths (estimated at 1-2% of the population, right?) have enough thought power to destroy steel beam towers – but we 99% (or whatever fraction thereof) can’t cause some ‘spontaneous combustion’ of our own?

We can if we realize our power, but we don't.

https://scontent-sea.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xft1/v/t1.0-9/10641188_10202706120363354_2452062800939714918_n.jpg?oh=eb4eb3b5526dc02d7250c83085806e5f&oe=55ABD950
See my post here:
http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?81587-Bush-Family-Treason&p=953623&viewfull=1#post953623

[awakeningmom]

Thank you, gripreaper and araucaria.

But I still don't get it. Aren't there "enough" people who, even if not fully awakened (if there is such a thing), understand that there is evil, injustice, corruption, human sacrifice, etc. in the world, that that evil has a public face -- and that that public face (in large part) has been, for the last half a century (at least), the so-called leaders of the U.S.?

And if that's so, surely there must be at least 1% of the world's population that has had powerful thoughts, prayers, or intentions revolving around removing at least some of those people from power (or having them spontaneously combust). And yet, the perpetrators remain ensconced. There are protest movements all over the world that go unpublicized by the MSM. Clearly there are MANY people who want things to change and who have put efforts into trying to make that happen (both on an active physical level and an intentional metaphysical level). So why doesn't the powerful manifesting work the other way, if it's possible?

Also, I just don't buy into the notion (articulated by Paul Levy in Araucaria's link) that we have "manifested" people like George Bush or Dick Cheney into being to reflect our own collective greed, corruption, etc. First, these people aren't "tulpas" -- they are physical beings like you and me (unless we are ALL tulpas?) who have chosen to serve themselves and their own families, bloodlines, agendas, etc. to the destruction and detriment of almost everyone else. This whole "the only reason evil exists is because WE ALL brought it into being to learn to integrate ourselves" seems like such a new age cop-out to me -- and it ultimately blames the victims and excuses the perpetrators (who are, after-all, just playing their roles).

I agree far more fully with this lovely bald lady. We can't just say it's all in our heads/thoughts....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fbq1trGHlCA

(the video Eckhart Tolle doesn't want you to see).

[Cidersomerset]

Rebekah Roth on "Methodical Illusion", Her Brilliant New Book Exposing The Lies Of 9/11

The Richie Allen Show

xWBgLeYKfzA

Published on 22 Apr 2015

Please Support The Show – http://richieallenshow.com/donate/

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[Slorri]

Just now by Rebekah Roth:

I think I am going to start a radio show, so people can listen, learn and call in and join in.

[Cidersomerset]

This reminds me of 9/11 with possible Israeli & Saudi intel fingerprints all over it ....
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Saudi Arabia Gives Israel 16 billion Dollars

Wednesday 22nd April 2015 at 09:28 By David Icke


http://www.davidicke.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/CBNNTZ1VIAEOV-n-587x391.jpg


‘The odd-couple relationship between Saudi Arabia and Israel may have been
sealed with more than a mutual desire to kiss-off Iran. According to an
intelligence source, there was a dowry involved, too, with the Saudis reportedly
giving Israel some $16 billion, writes Robert Parry.

For more than half a century, Saudi Arabia has tried to use its vast oil wealth to
build a lobby in the United States that could rival the imposing Israel Lobby. At
top dollar, the Saudis hired law firms and PR specialists – and exploited personal
connections to powerful families like the Bushes – but the Saudis never could
build the kind of grassroots political organization that has given Israel and its
American backers such extraordinary clout.

Indeed, Americans who did take Saudi money – including academic institutions
and non-governmental organizations – were often pilloried as tools of the Arabs,
with the Israel Lobby and its propagandists raising the political cost of accepting
Saudi largesse so high that many people and institutions shied away.’


http://www.lipolitics.com/wp-content/uploads/media/2011/06/2015/02/saudiss-04.jpg

President Obama and King Salman Arabia stand at attention during the U.S.
national anthem as the First Lady stands in the background with other officials.
(Official White House Photo by Pete Souza)

But Saudi Arabia may have found another way to buy influence inside the United
States – by giving money to Israel and currying favor with Israeli Prime Minister
Benjamin Netanyahu. Over the past several years, as both Saudi Arabia and Israel
have identified Iran and the so-called “Shiite crescent” as their principal enemies,
this once-unthinkable alliance has become possible – and the Saudis, as they are
wont to do, may have thrown lots of money into the deal.

According to a source briefed by U.S. intelligence analysts, the Saudis have given
Israel at least $16 billion over the past 2 ½ years, funneling the money through a
third-country Arab state and into an Israeli “development” account in Europe to
help finance infrastructure inside Israel. The source first called the account “a
Netanyahu slush fund,” but later refined that characterization, saying the money
was used for public projects such as building settlements in the West Bank.



Read more: Saudi Arabia Gives Israel 16 billion Dollars

http://www.ascertainthetruth.com/att/index.php/al-islam-a-terrorism/intl-qwar-on-terrorq/1353-saudi-arabia-gives-israel-16bn-dollars


Odd couple ? or maybe not so odd !!

http://tvnewslies.org/assets/images/Bush_Saud.jpg

http://www.tlat.net/Images/BushAndLadens.jpg

[awakeningmom]

Here's an interesting article about Roth's theories on the Truth & Shadows blog page. Paul Zarembka, a long time truth movement leader, tries to dissect whether Roth's claims about the planes all landing at Westover is feasible, given times of take-off, etc. An interesting read.

https://truthandshadows.wordpress.com/2015/04/21/a-novel-idea-rebekah-roths-methodical-illusion-and-what-happened-to-the-planes-on-9-11/

[Curious77]

This suggests that there were actually planes involved though there is strong evidence that only one plane was
circulated around WTC towers and then down to Pentagon.
Even at that, we have reports (TV) that two of the "hijacked" planes landed at airports and passengers were
disembarked safely.
YouTube is one source for some of the landing info: What Happened to the planes/passengers on 9/11?

Additionally, I doubt that there was any killing of plane passengers by any means; I think there is always an
effort to limit the deaths in case the mission is revealed or has to be aborted.
And, always there seems to be a training program as cover -- running simultaneously.

We also saw that at the WTC towers where supposedly the towers were closed at 7:30 am.
Tens of thousands of workers would have been in those buildings and yet it is difficult to even verify that
less than 2,000 were killed. There seem to be many fictitious victims.

Meanwhile, it seems doubtful upon evidence of American Airlines that these planes were even scheduled to
flying; beyond believing that 4 commercial jetliners could be simultaneously hijacked.

I've no doubt that military installations were used that day --
There was a party going on at the military base where W landed --
Can't think of the name of it at the moment --

Additionally, all the "calls" sound very strange if not weird -- as though the callers
were suddenly handed a script they were unfamiliar with and troubled by.
Why would those calls have had to have been made from a plane?
They could have been made from anywhere on the ground, couldn't they?

Barbara Olsen and her husband are two of the weakest links in this whole scam
and FBI said "no calls" were made from planes which sets the FBI vs this already
suspect couple. Many think that Ted has just remarried his wife, Barbara.

[Satori]

Please visit www.journalof911studies.com to read a peer-reviewed article I wrote demonstrating that the so-called science pitched by NIST and others in support of the official conspiracy theory of the destruction of WTC 1, 2 and 7 would be excluded from evidence by an impartial judge in a criminal or civil proceeding and only the alternative explosives theory of the destruction of these buildings would be admissible in a court of law. The article was published in March 2015 and can be found by clicking on "articles." It is entitled "The Cause of the Destruction of the World Trade Center Buildings on September 11, 2001 and the Admissibility of Expert Testimony Under the Standards Developed in Daubert v. Merrell Dow Pharmaceutical, Inc." I believe that anyone's tendency to accept the Big Lies of 9/11 as those lies are perpetuated by the PTB can be overcome or at least softened once one realizes that the official explanation of the cause of the destruction of these buildings is contrary to the laws of physics and can only be explained and understood from the standpoint of the explosives hypothesis. In the USA a judge presiding over a civil or criminal proceeding in which expert testimony is offered in the case, is duty-bound to allow into evidence only such expert testimony as is both relevant and reliable. At a minimum the reliability factor would exclude any so-called expert testimony offered in support of the official explanation of the destruction of WTC 1, 2 and 7.

[awakeningmom]

Looks like Rebekah Roth just came out with Book 2, "Methodical Deception,"...

http://www.amazon.com/Methodical-Deception-Rebekah-Roth/dp/0982757166/ref=sr_1_sc_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1441286842&sr=8-1-spell&keywords=Rebekkah+Roth


I'm curious if anyone has had a chance to read it yet? I'm still skeptical of her Massachusetts military base theory, but wondered if she added anything else novel in her new "novel."

[iceni tribe]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=96q-1IIQuuI&feature=em-uploademail

[Redstar Kachina]

..........

[iceni tribe]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kg7Qt4bV0B8

[giovonni]

:bump:

will share this here ...


the latest ...

Jeff Rense & Rebekah Roth - 9/11 ... Methodical Deception

Clip from September 08, 2015 / Published on Sep 15, 2015


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2qgxcvKf2_g

[Cidersomerset]

I don't think this has been posted , this should be interesting it starts with
Christopher Bollyn 9/11 researcher followed by Rebekah Roth. John B Wells
is a pretty good experienced well informed host...........

Caravan To Midnight - Episode 369 A Methodical Deception

Cm7vs-pBZoc

Published on 18 Sep 2015

Please Join Us... Become A Member At
http://caravantomidnight.com/

Episode 369 – In this edition we observe the 14th anniversary of the 9/11 attack
alongside researcher and author Christopher Bollyn; followed by the return of Dame
Rebekah Roth as she brings lots of new information concerning the aforementioned
Methodical Deception.

Buy This Caravan To Midnight Episode for 2.99
http://caravantomidnight.com/product/...

Former Host of Coast To Coast AM John B Wells is now in control on Caravan To Midnight

====================================================

If you do not know who Chris is there are a couple of presentations on link below...

Post # 19

Christopher Bollyn 2015: ‘Solving 911 Ends the War’

Wednesday 18th March 2015 at 07:14 By David Icke

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?80888-9-11-and-false-flag-bullet-points-can-we-create&p=945666&viewfull=1#post945666

[Cidersomerset]

Randy Maugans is another experienced host...


OffPlanetTV - Randy Maugans talks to Rebekah Roth - 17 September 2015

YJUSZrmEAhc

Published on 18 Sep 2015


Support Free and Independent Media by purchasing a full HD copy of this show
on www.ethimarket.com or go to our Network Support Fund at http://www.ethimarket.com/downloads/n...

===================================================

The 2nd part after the midway break starts with Randy giving a
good brief about other false flag and others events , then they
carry on for a bit then 1:24 m they get into the Israeli Art student
/ bombers, withinstructions how to get to the picture on the link
of the ' students' in the 91 story apartment in the tower.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

As hard as this might be to believe a group of foreign



http://www.methodicaldeception.com/publishImages/resource2~~element52.jpg
art students NOT U.S. Citizens managed to get temporary
construction ID for the entire WTC complex. While there,
they removed a window and extended a wooden balcony
while their "sponsor" was in the Millenium Hotel taking
photos, he also hired a helicopter to document the event.

And only a retired flight attendant sees something fishy?
http://www.methodicaldeception.com/gelatin_B_Thing_book_info.png


http://www.methodicaldeception.com/publishImages/resource2~~element51.jpg
Notice the BB-18 number for those fuse holders?
http://www.littelfuse.com/~/media/electrical/datasheets/fuse-blocks-and-holders/dead-front-fuse-holders/littelfuse_fuse_block_powr_busbar.pdf

http://www.methodicaldeception.com/publishImages/resource2~~element53.jpg
What kind of ART project could these Israeli's be up to?

http://www.methodicaldeception.com/publishImages/resource2~~element55.jpg
Once a copy of this pass is in hand, one can be
reproduced, a simple project for an artist.


DEA report information HERE

Click http://www.methodicaldeception.com/resource2.html

More information on art students HERE....http://antiwar.com/rep/DEA_Report_redactedxx.pdf

NY Times article HERE.....http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/sociopolitica/esp_sociopol_911_125.htm

More from History Commons HERE....http://www.historycommons.org/timeline.jsp?geopolitics_and_9%2F11=israel&timeline=complete_911_timeline

More spying info HERE....http://www.npr.org/templates/transcript/transcript.php?storyId=4785888

http://www.methodicaldeception.com/resource2.html

===================================================
===================================================

After this segment aprox 1:46 mins in they discuss 'Trolls and Parasites'....

aprox 1:50 she mentions Bills interview ......About intel - surveillance

Samson Option
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samson_Option
qF5px7PsWjw

http://usercontent1.hubimg.com/6108716_f260.jpg

====================================================

added later.......

ZwTc8I0bfe0

[jaybee]

Here's an interesting article about Roth's theories on the Truth & Shadows blog page. Paul Zarembka, a long time truth movement leader, tries to dissect whether Roth's claims about the planes all landing at Westover is feasible, given times of take-off, etc. An interesting read.

https://truthandshadows.wordpress.com/2015/04/21/a-novel-idea-rebekah-roths-methodical-illusion-and-what-happened-to-the-planes-on-9-11/


Thanks for the link...yes an interesting read

and after seeing this bit from it...


Roth is quite opposed, even violently so, to David Ray Griffin’s claim that calls could have been faked using voice morphing. Listen to her interview at Quantum Matrix Radio at around 23:30 and 53:10 until right after 1:05:03 when she threatens to leave the interview. In 2011, I also opposed Griffin on voice morphing, but never with her dogmatic tone (“Critique of David Ray Griffin regarding Calls from 9-11 Planes”; an error of mine regarding the Boeing 767 for AA 11 was corrected in a day, but the correction no longer appears on-line). In my case, I did not consider whether the calls came from the ground.

Roth argues that passengers left on planes in Westover were gassed to death and that the Westover military airport had been evacuated beforehand. She claims that a reservist who was to be at the airport confirmed the closure to her. But Roth has not named the person who reported this, and so, in an evidentiary sense, it is simply hearsay. Even if it were fully confirmed, the question of establishing which planes went there would surface.


I decided to listen to the Quantum Matrix Radio interview because, frankly, I am tired of the Bubbly, bright and breezy Roth (all the grinning and laughing while discussing mass murder feels disrespectful to me)

Just listened to it...

http://noliesradio.org/archives/96035


Anyway very interesting for anyone who wants to take a closer look at all the stuff she is saying...

starting around 01:01:00 ...Roth was claiming that hundreds of Airline people were getting in touch with her (every day) and were standing with her ..a couple of minutes or so later the interviewers suggested that a website for all these airline people to show support could be a good idea...similar to Architects and Engineers/ Pilots for truth, etc....one for flight attendants, pursers.. NAMED Airline people ....and Roth snapped - - 'this is bigger than a web site, this is the truth' ....

OooooooKaaaay .......


.

[Cidersomerset]

I just finished the other two very good interviews above and
commented on Bills Thread and was going to leave it for
a while but this one started playing and I let it go.......
----------------------------------------------------------------------------

9/11 BOMBSHELL: METHODICAL DECEPTION -- Rebekah Roth

S1mETnAMySw

Published on 17 Sep 2015


Methodical Illusion 9/11 Deception.

Former flight attendant turned researcher, truth teller and author
Rebekah Roth joins me on the 14th anniversary of 9/11 to discuss
her new book 'Methodical ...

"Heres the link to the FULL 75 minute SGT Report interview: On
Thursday, September 9, 2015 I interviewed author ...

[Cidersomerset]

Evidence That Rothschild's Mossad Did 9-11

f0NKlilvKvM

Published on 12 Sep 2015


Rebekah Roth, author of "Methodical Illusion" and "Methodical Deception", with Jeff Rense, September 11, 2015.

[PHennessey]

I haven't seen the interview yet, so forgive me if this has been answered. My question is this: What is the purpose of landing the planes and faking the phone calls? Why wouldn't they just use the actual planes in question and run them into the buildings as planned? That seems much easier.

Also, planes have air phones. Many of those calls were placed from said phones. Not sure why the cell phone theory is being passed around so virulently. You don't need a cell phone to make a call to a landline from a plane if you just use your credit card.

Were any remains of passengers found at the crash site and identified? This would preclude her entire theory.

Edit:
http://killtown.911review.org/flight93/claim.html

According to this, ALL of the passengers of flight 93 were identified at the crash site.

[ThePythonicCow]

I haven't seen the interview yet, so forgive me if this has been answered. My question is this: What is the purpose of landing the planes and faking the phone calls? Why wouldn't they just use the actual planes in question and run them into the buildings as planned? That seems much easier.

Also, planes have air phones. Many of those calls were placed from said phones. Not sure why the cell phone theory is being passed around so virulently. You don't need a cell phone to make a call to a landline from a plane if you just use your credit card.
These large Boeing airframes do not fly that fast, at that altitude. Impossible. Their engines are not strong enough to push the dense air near sea level aside that fast, and if the engines were boosted somehow, the wings would blow off.

These large Boeing airframes, with their aluminum wings, don't slice through and inside buildings with thick and strong steel and concrete exterior walls, like a hot knife into butter, disappearing inside the building, even out to the thin, fragile, wing tips, without a visible trace left outside.

The strong, high grade steel landing gear and the massive titanium engines on these planes do not vanish in crashes or fires, leaving not a trace to be found later.

American Airlines planes, according to Rebekah Roth, and on this point I trust her expertise, had no working air phones in 2001. None.

Airline hostesses do not sit and talk on the phone for 10 or 20 minutes during a hijacking, telling inconsistent stories from each other and sometimes even from what is possible.

... it's one thing to raise good counter points, with some basis. But to just repeat variants of the official story in the form of questions, seemingly unaware of the substantially better and more consistent evidence to the contrary, is ... well ... frustrating.

===

I encourage you to listen to some of Rebekah's interviews :).

[Cidersomerset]

Related imo...part of a post I put on Bills thread as well....

If there were no jet liners actually 'high jacked' on 9/11, just
planes used in the drills going on as per RR & others, theories...

http://i.ytimg.com/vi/6lepqPvru_s/hqdefault.jpg
http://www.bollyn.com/public/Photo20Montage_Pentagon_JPEG.jpg
https://kendoc911.files.wordpress.com/2014/11/flight93meme.jpg?w=604

Mike Rupperts analyst would also fit , He says there were only 8 fighters available
at the critical moment and as they fly in pairs that means only four response teams.
At the time there were up to 21 false potential 'hijack' blips on NORADS radars
from the various wargames and exercises , so it could have been set up to
hide the fact there were no real airliners used in the actual attack as RR and
Judy Wood and many others speculate....

dbbkmt5rUgM

http://stateofthenation2012.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/simulation.jpg

http://themillenniumreport.com/2014/09/vp-cheney-issued-911-stand-down-orders-while-missile-approached-pentagon-tip-of-the-government-conspiracy/

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?85202-Bill-Ryan-s-new-interview-with-REBEKAH-ROTH-11-September-2015&p=1002840&viewfull=1#post1002840

[Mark (Star Mariner)]

These large Boeing airframes, with their aluminum wings, don't slice through and inside buildings with thick and strong steel and concrete exterior walls, like a hot knife into butter, disappearing inside the building, even out to the thin, fragile, wing tips, without a visible trace left outside.

All good points, but on the above, I agree that you wouldn't normally think so - if they really were Boeing airframes. But no one knows the materials, composition or true nature of the objects that collided with the WTC and Pentagon - and something did hit them, I maintain that, it's what I personally believe.

Here is a scientific paper published by the Massachusetts Institute of Technology, entitled: “Chapter IV: Aircraft Impact Damage”. (Viewed here (http://web.mit.edu/civenv/wtc/PDFfiles/Chapter%20IV%20Aircraft%20Impact.pdf)). Further chapters and information to be found here http://web.mit.edu/civenv/wtc/.

If these findings are to be accepted and believed, they determine that UA175, which hit the South Tower, did so with 3,658MJ of kinetic energy (MJ=megajoules – one megajoule equalling 1 million joules).

The paper has this to say about the wing damage to the outer columns:

The external columns were impacted at a very high speed and the process is controlled mainly by local inertia. As the fuselage and wings cut through the steel facade of the Towers, the affected portions of the column sheared off. It was found that the momentum transfer between the airframe and the first barrier of external columns was responsible for most of the energy dissipated in this phase. The energy to shear off the column constituted only a small fraction of that energy. A more exact calculation performed in Ref. [2] give a slightly larger value E external_column =26MJ.

The wingtips alone hit with 26 million joules of kinetic energy, they maintain, and caused this:

31293

Is that possible? I state categorically that I do not know, because I do not have a PHD, I’m not a qualified engineer or a scientist, and I don’t have the skill or mathematical knowledge to break down and fully understand the complex equations that feature throughout this paper (which I have not quoted in this post, as most of us would not understand them). It's my opinion that anyone here who does not have a PHD or is not a qualified engineer is likewise, therefore, not qualified to contest these findings (categorically) either. This should be the case with Rebekah also. All we can do is proceed with the evidence, and counter-evidence, at hand, and make up our minds (if that is even possible!). Take another matter into consideration…

What force, driven by purportedly aluminium, could cut through those exterior columns like a ‘hot knife into butter’? The steel columns on the outside of the WTC in question were also clad in aluminium. Inside was a mere shell of medium-grade A36 plate steel, and it was only 9.5mm thick. 9.5mm is all.

Here's a cross section.
31294

It’s hollow. And it’s not high grade steel or reinforced either, just a hollow shell.



However, the problem of a hollow beam striking another hollow column at a right angle and a speed of 240 m/s has not been analyzed in the literature. Therefore it is not possible, at this point in time, to give any detailed account on this interaction, between the wings and outer column, with a higher degree of accuracy than our approximate engineering analysis. The equivalent thickness of the hollow wing beam is approximately four times larger than the thickness of the exterior columns (9.5mm). It is therefore reasonable to treat wings as rigid bodies upon impact with exterior columns. (<-- my emphasis)

That's a rigid knife, in other words, interacting with a less rigid other body.

So what is one to make of this? Were those columns more ‘buttery’ than first assumed? Like I said, I do not know... But this should, I hope, be food for thought.




American Airlines planes, according to Rebekah Roth, and on this point I trust her expertise, had no working air phones in 2001. None.

I looked into this further, and found some evidence (now please don't get jumpy) - just evidence, stories, information, that indicates that this might not be correct.

Wikipedia says:
Air One, operated by AT&T Wireless (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AT%26T_Wireless) division Claircom Communications Group, and was available onboard American Airlines (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Airlines), Northwest Airlines (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northwest_Airlines), and select Delta Air Lines (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delta_Air_Lines) aircraft. The Air One service was discontinued in 2002. (my edit --> not 2001)
Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Airfone

Also...
Airline Grounds In-Flight Phone Service
7 February 2002
Airlines are throwing away those phones built into the seats, and they're blaming it all on cell phones.
American Airlines will discontinue its AT&T in-flight phone service by March 31, a spokesman for the airline said Wednesday. (this is 2002) American will stop the service by March 31 and then take steps to remove the phones from its airplanes.
The airline will keep other communication services working. Passengers on Boeing 777 and Boeing 767-300 aircraft, which mainly fly international routes, will continue to offer an in-flight phone service that connects to an orbiting satellite for a $5 connection fee and a rate of $10 a minute.
Source: http://www.cnet.com/uk/news/airline-grounds-in-flight-phone-service/

It doesn’t expressly say that 757s were part of this cut, but implying that 767s and 777s will continue to offer an in-flight service, it could be implied as such.

Also...
From 911myths:
"Of course our speculation has no particular value, so we asked American Airlines to look into this, and they reported":
Engineers at our primary Maintenance & Engineering base in Tulsa tell me that they cannot find any record that the 757 aircraft flown into the Pentagon on 9/11 had had its seatback phones deactivated by that date. An Engineering Change Order to deactivate the seatback phone system on the 757 fleet had been issued by that time... It is our contention that the seatback phones on Flight 77 were working because there is no entry in that aircraft’s records to indicate when the phones were disconnected.
John Hotard, Corporate Communications, American Airlines
Source: http://www.911myths.com/index.php/American_Airlines_Flight_77_Calls

Also...
Photo 1, from 2002. Air phones visible (on the back of the headrest) on an American Airlines 757: (photographed on Flight 1576 from Los Angeles to Chicago). http://www.jetphotos.net/viewphoto.php?id=55280

Photo 2, from 2004. Air phones not visible on an American Airlines 757 (a photo of economy class, during a flight from Cuba): http://www.jetphotos.net/viewphoto.php?id=400651

If this is correct, then judging by these images, it is not unreasonable to deduce or at least assume that American Airlines cancelled Air phones on their 757s somewhere between 2002 and 2004 (not in 2001).

The whole theory of Air Phones not being installed on Flight 77, or any of American Airline 757s at the time, did not begin with Rebekah Roth. It probably started with 911Blogger David Ray Griffin.
David Ray Griffin - Barbara Olson’s Alleged Call from AA 77: A Correction about Onboard Phones ( http://911blogger.com/node/8408)


David Ray Griffin
May 7, 2007
In my recently released book, Debunking 9/11 Debunking (1), I claimed that Boeing 757s made for American Airlines did not have seat-back phones or any other onboard telephones.
This claim, if true, would be very important, because one could use it, as I did, to argue that the alleged telephone call from Barbara Olson to her husband, US Solicitor General Ted Olson, could not have occurred. It might be thought, to be sure, that the call could have been made from her cell phone. Ted Olson did, in fact, make this claim at times. As I reported, however, the evidence indicates that cell phone calls from high-flying airliners would not have been possible in 2001, given the cell phone technology of the time…[etc..]

He goes on to say:


My Error
I based my conclusion on conversations that Ian Henshall and Rowland Morgan had with American Airlines in 2004 while they were co-authoring book. In this book, 9/11 Revealed, they said: “A call by us to American Airlines’ London Office produced a definitive statement from Laeti Hyver that (AA’s) 757s do not have Airfones. This was confirmed by an email from AA in the US.” (2) Although this email correspondence was not printed in their book, or in Morgan’s later Flight 93 Revealed, in which it is also reported, (3) they allowed me to print it in Debunking 9/11 Debunking. In reply to their letter asking whether “757s (are) fitted with phones that passengers can use,” an AA spokesman wrote: “American Airlines 757s do not have onboard phones for passenger use.” To check on the possibility that Barbara Olson might have borrowed a phone intended for crew use, they asked, “(A)re there any onboard phones at all on AA 757s, i.e., that could be used either by passengers or cabin crew?” The response was: “AA 757s do not have any onboard phones, either for passenger or crew use. Crew have other means of communication available.” (4)

The conclusion that Barbara Olson could not have made a call using an onboard phone seemed further confirmed by a page on the AA website that says, “Worldwide satellite communications are available on American Airlines' Boeing 777 and Boeing 767,” with no mention of AA’s Boeing 757.

My mistake, like that of Henshall and Rowland before me, was to assume that the AA spokesperson and this website were talking about AA 757s as they had always been, not simply about 757s at the time of the query, in 2004.
But the latter was evidently the meaning. Elias Davidsson, an Icelandic member of the 9/11 truth movement, sent me a story from February 6, 2002, which said: “American Airlines will discontinue its AT&T in-flight phone service by March 31, a spokesman for the airline said Wednesday.” (5) Davidsson also reported a 1998 photograph of the inside of an AA 757 showing that it did have seat-back phones. (6)


For all these reasons, the evidence that AA 77 did have seat-back phones does little to reinstate the credibility of the claim that Ted Olson actually received calls from his wife on that flight. (15)

Of course, there are other problems with the whole Barbara Olsen thing, but the above information is *evidence* - and I swiftly emphasize that before I get destoyed - it is *evidence only*, just stories, theories, claims, that when taken altogether presents the possibility that Rebekah Roth's information is not 100% accurate. It shouldn't be immediately assumed as such. Because according to the above info, there is at least a suggestion that in 2001 AA 757s *may* have had an Air Phone system.

[jaybee]

.


I thought I would see if I could get any info about Westover Reserve AFB, that Roth claims was closed on 9/11..

It took no time at all to find a reference to the base on that day - yes just a passing remark, but that shows that the person writing the article had no agenda when it came to the mention or they would have made more of a thing of it ?


https://afreserve.com/news-article/reservists-remember-9-11-tanker-mission


Story by
Lt. Col. Robert Couse-Baker
349th Public Affairs

041108-F-XX999-0239/10/2014 - TRAVIS AIR FORCE BASE, Calif. -- On Sept. 11, 2001, a Travis KC-10 crew took off from Europe with the ordinary mission of ferrying six A-10 Warthogs back to the United States. However, 9/11 was no ordinary day.

Capt. Jay Wahleithner, KC-10 Extender pilot, 1st Lt. Jerimy Wills, co-pilot, Staff Sgt. E.J. Abalos, engineer, and Staff Sgt. Steven Rodrigues, boom operator, were supporting a tanker air bridge. At the time, all four were assigned to the active-duty 9th Air Refueling Squadron, on temporary duty in Morón Air Base, Spain.

"We took off thinking this was a normal fighter drag," Wahleithner said.

When the KC-10 arrived for the pickup over Lajes Field, Azores, Portugal, only four of the A-10s were there to make the trip; two had maintenance problems. This resulted in the tanker having 50,000 pounds more fuel on board than they would need for the trip.

The unplanned extra fuel would prove useful later in the day.

"A-10s are really slow, so this was a really long flight. We'd been listening to the Atlantic Common Frequency and heard pilots talking about airline accidents on the East Coast. That was the first we heard that something was wrong," Wahleithner said.

"Of course, the details were not very solid, with bits of information about mid-air collisions in New York and then possible bombings at the Pentagon. Shortly thereafter, New York Center announced all U.S. air space was closed.

"The idea that ALL U.S. airspace would close boggled my mind and made the hair on the back of my neck stand up," he said.

Wahleithner explained the radio technology 13 years ago was not as good as is now, so communications were chaotic after that announcement.

"You've got all these commercial aircraft trying to divert to other countries; we couldn't get through to ATC (Air Traffic Control) or TACC (Tanker Airlift Control Center, Scott AFB, Ill.)"

"As we approached the U.S., New York Center advised us that ATC services were suspended and we would have to proceed 'due regard' in the U.S.," he said.

The phrase "due regard" has very specific meaning in aviation. It means that air traffic control services will not be provided and that the military aircraft commander is responsible for his own navigation and separation from other aircraft. In practical terms, it means something more like "Good luck with that, you're on your own."

"I only knew of it as something I'd learned in training," Wahleithner said.

As the KC-10 approached the eastern seaboard, they heard over the guard radio (international emergency channel) NORAD advising an unknown aircraft to identify itself.

"Checking our position, we realized we were the unknown aircraft, so we responded," Wahleithner said.

At the same time, New York Center informed the crew they had two "fast-moving" aircraft approaching the tanker's six o'clock position.

011106-F-4308R-035"As soon as NORAD and the F-15s from the Massachusetts Air National Guard were convinced of our identity, NORAD asked if we had any available fuel," he said.

Since two of the originally scheduled six A-10s had not taken off due to maintenance problems, the tanker carried an extra 50,000 pounds of fuel.

The A-10s then departed to land at Westover Air Reserve Base, Mass., and the KC-10 set up a tanker combat air patrol over Boston.

From his position in the boom pod, Rodrigues had a shocking view of Boston.

"Looking down at Logan (International Airport) seeing planes parked everywhere, on taxiways and runways; nothing was moving. The freeways were almost entirely deserted," he said.

"It all was very surreal. I flew throughout the northeast for almost five years while stationed at McGuire AFB, New Jersey, and it is possibly the most heavily traveled airspace in the world. That day, there were virtually no aircraft in sight and no one talking on the radios," Wahleithner said. "It was creepy, partly because we still had not been told what had happened," he said.

The tanker spent the next two hours supporting four F-15s, off-loading 40,000 pounds of fuel and becoming one of the very first aircraft participating in what would be become Operation Noble Eagle.

"It was only later we discovered that the first two F-15s we refueled were the initial fighters scrambled in response to the attacks in New York City," Wahleithner said.

-------------

Wahleithner is now a lieutenant colonel in the Air Force Reserve and until recently the chief pilot of the 70th Air Refueling Squadron.

Wills has since left the Air Force and is a pilot with Southwest Airlines.

Abalos is now a master sergeant and is still on active duty, flying with the 9th ARS.

Rodriquez is now a technical sergeant in the Air Force Reserve, flying with the 70th ARS.


I've put the whole article because I had a bit of a problem with posting links the other day....


this is the important bit regarding Westover..



The A-10s then departed to land at Westover Air Reserve Base, Mass., and the KC-10 set up a tanker combat air patrol over Boston.


also there is this regarding reservists on 9/11...


http://www.bc.edu/bc_org/rvp/pubaf/chronicle/v11/s6/sept11.html



One immediate consequence of the 9/11 attacks was the call-up of US military reserves, and those who answered included BC police officers Santos "Joe" Perez, an Air Force reservist who for the past year has been stationed at Hanscom Air Force Base, and Vinny Sena, a Marine who saw duty at Westover Air Force Base.


I have quoted this not because of the Westover reference (although the piece came up because of the 'Westover on 9/11' search..) but because of the reference to the call up of reservists on that day -

Of course reservists would be called up ASAP as the attacks were on the Delta level of security - (if that is the correct terminology)


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delta_Force

The Delta Force (1st Special Forces Operational Detachment-Delta), is a U.S. Army unit used for hostage rescue and counterterrorism, as well as direct action and reconnaissance against high value targets. Along with the Navy's SEAL Team Six, Delta Force represents the top tier of Joint Special Operations Command units, and the selection and training is considered the most demanding in the armed forces.


Westover was a reserve base so it would be very busy that day..? not closed

The affidavit that Roth claims to have from a local resident about stuff that fits in with her narrative is as good as useless because it is anonymous from our point of view and relies totally on believing what Roth says -

My own BS detection meter swung to a high reading when I listened to Roth and the more time goes on the more confident I am that my BS-O-meter is working ok - I know this isn't how everyone feels about her and her story but I can take a more detatched view perhaps because the 9/11 inside job conspiracy isn't a fundamental part of my paradigm -

I am highly suspicious about this latest avalanche of material dominating the 9/11 conspiracy arena over the last year and a half? even though I've only just caught up with it - :) - as 9/11 is a big interest of mine but not something that I bother with all the time -

[jaybee]

.


Westover Reserve Base essentially being closed on 9/11 is central to Roth's narrative ... so all the dastardly deeds could be done -

Here's more evidence to contradict that - although like all good fabrications a grain of truth is there in that the base, when it went to 'Delta' security level was closed to 'non-mission people'.... but to all intents and purposes it was apparently not closed - not by a long chalk -


Again - it took me minutes to find this link - but from memory, I think RR said she tried to debunk herself for a month...!

scroll down to page 12...


http://www.westover.afrc.af.mil/Portals/1/documents/patriot/2011/sept2011.pdf


America’s military worldwide went to Force
Protection Condition Delta, the highest alert,
used only to signal that an attack is in progress.
The new,
grimmer face of
Westover started
with heavy equipment
operators lowering redtopped
cement jersey barriers
at parking lot and street
entrances. Military and civilian
members left their desks to set up plastic cones and
yellow ropes around their buildings and move away their
trash cans.
They locked entrance doors in their buildings and set up
tables at main entrances
to check ID
cards and take names of those
coming and going.
The Westover senior leadership established a Crisis
Action Team in the Command Post. It’s mission was
twofold: to protect Westover’s people and property,
and to prepare aircraft, flight crews and
support people who might be called
into military or humanitarian
action.
Offices around the base
began receiving calls from reservists who volunteered to
report for duty if needed. Some traditional reservists
like Col. Sarah Waterman, 439th ASTS commander, and
Lt. Col. Terry Thomas, 439th MSS commander, simply
showed up. “I couldn’t stay home,” Waterman said. The
medical units called members and assembled rosters of
volunteers available for short-notice alert.
Westover closed its gate to all non-mission people. Incoming
vehicles were subject to German shepherds of
Massachusetts State police dog handlers and Westover
Marines joined wing security members at the gate.



The first step to tighten security on the flight
line and around base was to increase the number
of security forces and frequency of patrols.
Security forces armed with M-16s and M9
Baretta pistols stood at entry control points
to the flight line, patrolled in Humvees and
walked the fence line to check for tampering.
The civilian DOD police worked long hours
and reservists of the 439th Security Forces
Squadron called in to volunteer. The Westover
force was supplemented by Massachusetts
Army National Guard military police. Maintenance
members stood guard at the entry
control point to the flight line.

[ThePythonicCow]

.


Westover Reserve Base essentially being closed on 9/11 is central to Roth's narrative ... so all the dastardly deeds could be done -

Here's more evidence to contradict that - although like all good fabrications a grain of truth is there in that the base, when it went to 'Delta' security level was closed to 'non-mission people'.... but to all intents and purposes it was apparently not closed - not by a long chalk -


Again - it took me minutes to find this link - but from memory, I think RR said she tried to debunk herself for a month...!

scroll down to page 12...


http://www.westover.afrc.af.mil/Portals/1/documents/patriot/2011/sept2011.pdf


The pdf meta-data in that September edition of the Patriot shows that it was created and modified on Sept 7, 2001, four days before 9/11. So how does it come to contain an article reprinted from the October Patriot edition, that was post 9/11, and that shows a fair bit of reporting and production quality that would take a few days to accomplish ?

My guess would be that that pdf is a combination of portions of both the Sept (pre 9/11) and Oct (post 9/11) editions of the Patriot ... which is not a crime nor is it decisive evidence, but is a bit confusing and puzzling.

Now ... as to whether I'd trust something published in such a journal, from that source, a month after (the Oct 2001 portions) 9/11 ... well, no, I wouldn't.

[jaybee]

Now ... as to whether I'd trust something published in such a journal, from that source, a month after (the Oct 2001 portions) 9/11 ... well, no, I wouldn't.


That is your prerogative -

but don't you think someone would have come forward to question or correct what the article says by now if it wasn't broadly factual?

we're talking about high treason and mass murder here and a scar on the psyche of the nation...just how many people are their aiding and abetting it all to make what Roth says work - Roth who no one knows who she is - who's motives could easily be suspect..

I think I've seen somewhere that you have been in the military, Paul..? not sure if I remember that right..

Doesn't what I quoted and what was said in the article sound like just the sort of thing that would happen when the security goes to Delta..?

.

[ThePythonicCow]

Now ... as to whether I'd trust something published in such a journal, from that source, a month after (the Oct 2001 portions) 9/11 ... well, no, I wouldn't.


That is your prerogative -

but don't you think someone would have come forward to question or correct what the article says by now if it wasn't broadly factual?

we're talking about high treason and mass murder here and a scar on the psyche of the nation...just how many people are their aiding and abetting it all to make what Roth says work - Roth who no one knows who she is - who's motives could easily be suspect..

I think I've seen somewhere that you have been in the military, Paul..? not sure if I remember that right..

Doesn't what I quoted and what was said in the article sound like just the sort of thing that would happen when the security goes to Delta..?

.

I was in the military - Lieutenant in the United States Air Force from 1971 to 1975, radar operations in Tampa, Florida and Ko Kha, Thailand.

I don't recall now whether I knew then what would happen at "Delta" security ... or even if that was what it was called then. I've long since forgotten such matters. What the article described felt plausible and typical enough, to my limited recall, yes.

The counter-argument that "don't you think someone would have come forward" is a common one in 9/11 "debates". When such major false operations are undertaken such as I claim 9/11 was, then we seldom hear from those who would come forward. Someone else hears first, someone who is part of an organized effort, with deep surveillance capabilities and deep control of most of the media, and their organizations do whatever need be done to squelch, confuse, discredit, redirect, silence or destroy such leaks. That's an obvious part of how such operations are planned and executed.

At least a couple such people have contacted Rebekah Roth, however defenders of the official 9/11 story (or minor variations thereof) prefer to discredit Rebekah with such nebulous lines as "who's motives could easily be suspect".

[jaybee]

I was in the military - Lieutenant in the United States Air Force from 1971 to 1975, radar operations in Tampa, Florida and Ko Kha, Thailand.

I don't recall now whether I knew then what would happen at "Delta" security ... or even if that was what it was called then. I've long since forgotten such matters. What the article described felt plausible and typical enough, to my limited recall, yes.


ok thanks ... :thumb:



The counter-argument that "don't you think someone would have come forward" is a common one in 9/11 "debates". When such major false operations are undertaken such as I claim 9/11 was, then we seldom hear from those who would come forward. Someone else hears first, someone who is part of an organized effort, with deep surveillance capabilities and deep control of most of the media, and their organizations do whatever need be done to squelch, confuse, discredit, redirect, silence or destroy such leaks. That's an obvious part of how such operations are planned and executed.

At least a couple such people have contacted Rebekah Roth, however defenders of the official 9/11 story (or minor variations thereof) prefer to discredit Rebekah with such nebulous lines as "who's motives could easily be suspect".


How can one actually discredit someone who is totally anonymous..?.a rhetorical question :)

The FACT is...we have no idea who she is....her background...where she worked... nothing...

So logically we have no idea of her motives... she might turn round in a few months and whip the wig and glasses off and say....'thank you everyone this has been a psychological experiment on how far people will go to suspend judgement when confirmation bias is in play...'

Just one possible scenario...

But I won't take up any more of your time today...

cheers

.

[ThePythonicCow]

... Someone else hears first, someone who is part of an organized effort, with deep surveillance capabilities and deep control of most of the media, and their organizations do whatever need be done to squelch, confuse, discredit, redirect, silence or destroy such leaks. That's an obvious part of how such operations are planned and executed. ...
To be more, but still not entirely, explicit, such operations include encouraging and supporting trolls (who may or may not realize they are serving in such a role) to post the usual confusions on Web forum threads that are getting too close to the truth.

[ThePythonicCow]

How can one actually discredit someone who is totally anonymous..?.a rhetorical question :)

The FACT is...we have no idea who she is....her background...where she worked... nothing...

So logically we have no idea of her motives... she might turn round in a few months and whip the wig and glasses off and say....'thank you everyone this has been a psychological experiment on how far people will go to suspend judgement when confirmation bias is in play...'

That's a problem both ways ... how do I discredit you? I don't even know what color your wig is.

In the final analysis, I can't necessarily do that.

Each reader will determine for themselves which reporter and which reports seem credible.

I currently find Rebekah Roth credible. I cannot say as much for your anonymous, ad hominem, efforts to discredit her.

[jaybee]

... Someone else hears first, someone who is part of an organized effort, with deep surveillance capabilities and deep control of most of the media, and their organizations do whatever need be done to squelch, confuse, discredit, redirect, silence or destroy such leaks. That's an obvious part of how such operations are planned and executed. ...
To be more, but still not entirely, explicit, such operations include encouraging and supporting trolls (who may or may not realize they are serving in such a role) to post the usual confusions on Web forum threads that are getting too close to the truth.

I hope you're not suggesting I'm a troll Paul...

To clarify..All the things I say about 9/11 are my own thoughts and research...

I have my own theories about that day as you might remember from some time past...

I like to reverse engineer Roths narrative to see if she is covering up stuff that fits in with my theories..

For example...in one of her interviews she explicitly declares...'No planes were shot down by the way'

mmmmmmm


I listened to the 'Elizabeth Nelson' interview with Bill, again, the other night..and I have to say here and now that 'Elizabeth' comes over as far more believable and sincere than RR.....IMO

.

[ThePythonicCow]

I hope you're not suggesting I'm a troll Paul...
I would not pretend to know what conscious awareness or intentions you have.

[ThePythonicCow]

I listened to the 'Elizabeth Nelson' interview with Bill, again, the other night..and I have to say here and now that 'Elizabeth' comes over as far more believable and sincere than RR.....IMO
As I wrote here (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?80910-Where-Did-the-Planes-Go--Rebekah-Roth-exposes-another-piece-of-the-9-11-puzzle-&p=948038&viewfull=1#post948038), several months ago:

=======


My current guess, in good part from Rebekah Roth's work, is that both the well known flight paths for the four flights ..., and Norman Mineta's testimony, are so far removed from reality as to be about as useful to understanding 9/11 as studies of the Easter Bunny would be to understanding the real historical meaning of Christmas.

It doesn't surprise me that the "Elizabeth Nelson", who Bill heard speak, witnessed military officers discussing and ordering a shoot-down (and doing so in genuine sincerity.) But I have no way of knowing what was painting on the radar screens that those officers were dealing with, and no way of knowing if there even was a real "flying hunk of metal" in the sky that was being painted, much less what any such flying hunk of metal might have actually been.

Apparently, the "real" 9/11 planes didn't fly anywhere close to the claimed paths, there were false targets being painted on both FAA (civilian) and Norad (military) radar, and real targets being hidden, again on both radar systems.
=======

Since the time of my above post, Rebekah has reported obtaining, via Freedom of Information requests filed by others who shared what they obtained with her, FAA flight data for those supposed hijacked 9/11 flights ... that was uploaded hours before the flights and events of 9/11. This provides further confirmation that the publicly reported flight paths are a deliberately provided part of the false 9/11 story.

[awakeningmom]

.


Westover Reserve Base essentially being closed on 9/11 is central to Roth's narrative ... so all the dastardly deeds could be done -

Here's more evidence to contradict that - although like all good fabrications a grain of truth is there in that the base, when it went to 'Delta' security level was closed to 'non-mission people'.... but to all intents and purposes it was apparently not closed - not by a long chalk -


Again - it took me minutes to find this link - but from memory, I think RR said she tried to debunk herself for a month...!

scroll down to page 12...


http://www.westover.afrc.af.mil/Portals/1/documents/patriot/2011/sept2011.pdf


The pdf meta-data in that September edition of the Patriot shows that it was created and modified on Sept 7, 2001, four days before 9/11. So how does it come to contain an article reprinted from the October Patriot edition, that was post 9/11, and that shows a fair bit of reporting and production quality that would take a few days to accomplish ?

My guess would be that that pdf is a combination of portions of both the Sept (pre 9/11) and Oct (post 9/11) editions of the Patriot ... which is not a crime nor is it decisive evidence, but is a bit confusing and puzzling.

Now ... as to whether I'd trust something published in such a journal, from that source, a month after (the Oct 2001 portions) 9/11 ... well, no, I wouldn't.

Can you please explain what you mean by the meta-data showing it was created and modified in September 2001? The PDF is an article from 2011, not 2001, even though the article that Jaybee is referencing was "reprinted from the October 2001 issue of the Patriot." Is this 2011 PDF showing edits from September 2001? I'm confused.

[Bill Ryan]

I listened to the 'Elizabeth Nelson' interview with Bill, again, the other night..and I have to say here and now that 'Elizabeth' comes over as far more believable and sincere than RR.....IMO


That's how I contacted Rebekah in the first place, by sending her that interview *.

Rebekah's response was that she thanked me, and that it was very interesting, and that she never had said that no plane was shot down (or crashed, or anything else). She said that, however, this was NOT Flight 93.

I took the point totally. Rebekah was correct, in that in Elizabeth's interview, at no stage did she hear, or know, or verify, that this was identified as Flight 93.

It was just a passenger plane that was not responding to radio after repeated requests, and was flying into restricted airspace. So they shot it down... just by the book. They had to. It need not even have been covered up, as they were acting quite properly under the law.

It's always been everyone's assumption (including mine) that that was the actual Flight 93. But this is consistent with the idea that all four 'real' planes were 'replaced' by something else, whatever the four replacements were.

There is no anomaly here.

* Elizabeth Nelson (pseudonym) is a witness I knew personally, who as a young Army medical trainee was in the room where the decision was made to shoot down what she assumed was Flight 93. Do see this page, and listen to her interview:
http://projectcamelot.org/elizabeth_nelson_flight_93.html (http://projectcamelot.org/elizabeth_nelson_flight_93.html)

[jaybee]

I hope you're not suggesting I'm a troll Paul...
I would not pretend to know what conscious awareness or intentions you have.

I love a good mystery and solving it to my satisfaction...if I can

9/11 is a big one and I like to look at it like a detective would...or a lawyer in a court of law would...

If you lived in Britain I would invite you to meet me for a cup of tea to put your mind at rest that I'm a real person, with no ulterior motives..
living a normal ish life in a town in the Midlands, England.. :)

The internet is fraught with paranoia when it comes to Conspiracy....and I can be paranoid about it all myself as well ... who's who....who's genuine who's not - it's a minefield and at the end of the day we just have our own judgement -

.

[ThePythonicCow]

Can you please explain what you mean by the meta-data showing it was created and modified in September 2001? The PDF is an article from 2011, not 2001, even though the article that Jaybee is referencing was "reprinted from the October 2001 issue of the Patriot." Is this 2011 PDF showing edits from September 2001? I'm confused.

Aha - you're right. I was confused on that point. Your eyes are doing fine. I misread 2011 as 2001. The font on my computer screen seems to be getting smaller over the years.

[jaybee]

.

@Bill....I personally think it was Flight 93 that 'Elizabeth' overheard being talked about because of the geography..

aaahhhhhhhh noooooo.. now I will have to try and find the interview where RR said 'no planes were shot down'

that might take some time because I don't have loads of time to devote to it...I will get back to you if/when I find it

.

[Bill Ryan]

@Bill....I personally think it was Flight 93 that 'Elizabeth' overheard being talked about because of the geography..



I understand you think that. I did, too. :)

But that's not actually logical. It was simply a plane, of some kind, not responding to radio, that was shot down over Shanksville. Nothing at all to say it was the actual Flight 93, except from the fabricated phone calls.

[ThePythonicCow]

@Bill....I personally think it was Flight 93 that 'Elizabeth' overheard being talked about because of the geography..

The geography of the officially reported flight paths might match that analysis. It is most likely, in my view, that the officially reported flight paths, as uploaded before the flights even took off on the morning of 9/11, are not the actual flight paths.

[awakeningmom]

Thanks, Paul. And Jaybee. Like Jaybee, I also have an interest in reverse engineering Roth's narrative. Not to discredit her or make any ad hominem attacks on her as a person. But I still want to see what parts of her story can be corroborated with other "evidence." And you would think that there would be an easy way to verify whether Westover was oddly closed to most reservists that day -- or a bustling Delta mode base used, in part, for refueling fighter jets involved that day.

I have to say, while the story of the busy "'closed to non-mission people" Westover base in Delta mode initially sounds more plausible to me than Roth's narrative, I also view this military-generated article with some suspicion.

First, if you noticed, there are TWO military guys who just so happened to be on bridges in NYC seeing both the first and second planes crashing into the Towers (see insert on PDF page 13, where the first guy just so happened to be on the George Washington Bridge at the precisely right moment to watch Plane 1 hit, and then PDF page 14, where another guy was on the Brooklyn Bridge and just happened to see Plane 2 hit....really?).

Second, to me, it's also interesting that this article explaining what was happening at WAB comes out in 2011, when Roth's books are probably generating a lot of interest in Westover. Yes, lots of 9-11 propaganda comes out around 9-11 every year, but if this is the first time the Patriot magazine has explained what was going on at WAB since 2001, the timing is rather suspicious. No doubt they've received at least SOME calls in response to Roth's work?

I'm not a Roth supporter or a Roth detractor at this point. Just considering all the information, information from Roth, from Jaybee, and from others still trying to unravel the mystery.

[awakeningmom]

Oops - I guess I have to debunk my own second reason for finding the Patriot article suspicious, since the article came out in 2011, not this year. If this Patriot article was published in 2011, then it wouldn't have been in response to Roth's 2014 books! The "Reservists Remember 9/11 Tanker Mission" story, however (posted by Jaybee above with a link), did just come out in 2014.

Also, I just noticed yet another direct connection is made in the Patriot story about actual eyewitnesses to the plane attacks. In addition to being on the GW bridge to watch Plane 1, and the Brooklyn Bridge to watch Plane 2, another interviewed person's nephew was in the room "that was demolished" by Plane 3 at the Pentagon. Now, not that surprising that someone in the military might have other family in the military who might have been at the Pentagon....but pretty convenient to be on that GW Bridge before anyone supposedly knew a Plane would hit Tower 1.....

[jaybee]

That's how I contacted Rebekah in the first place, by sending her that interview *.

Rebekah's response was that she thanked me, and that it was very interesting, and that she never had said that no plane was shot down (or crashed, or anything else). She said that, however, this was NOT Flight 93.


Hello again - well that didn't take as long as I thought it would - to find the reference I wanted. I just had a look at a couple of interviews I watched and it was quite near the beginning of one -

From memory I thought she had said that 'No planes were shot down, by the way'


Re the bolded above...what she said to you...

And in this interview in the bit starting at 7:11 (the actual quote coming at 7:44)

she says...

"Nothing was shot down by the way"

The video was released on 10th Sept (2015)

make of that what you will......


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qdP95oSoOFk

[Wide-Eyed]

Putin states and puts it all out there in his UN speech calling for coalition against fascism. The US, Neo-Con , Project for New American Century's fake war on terror and their connections in Israel, Saudi Arabia, and Corporate/Fascist multinationals are going to be exposed by Russia and Putin finding hard evidence of US/Isreal/Saudi arming creating ISIS. Good work REBEKAH keep connecting dots.:p



https://www.youtube.com/watch?t=23&v=eyt6tY_PxLo

[Bill Ryan]

.
This...
http://jamesfetzer.blogspot.com/2015/11/rebekahs-methodical-illusion-may-be.html
… is an interesting article.

I was e-mailed a couple of days ago by an Avalon supporter with quite a long, detailed analysis of this — that Rebekah Roth, and a quite different internet personality called Monika Gainor, are the same person. As best I can see at the moment, this may well be correct. Rebekah and Monika have a very similar appearance, voice, and sometimes use the same phraseology. And, of course, neither may be her real name.

There's no crime or any kind of impropriety here — and logically, of course, it doesn't invalidate any of Rebekah's work at all. My strong view is that it stands very compellingly: basically, that the planes were flown to Westover Air Force Base shortly after takeoff, the infamous cellphone calls were all made on the ground in a hanger, most of the passengers and all the crew members were murdered, and different planes or disguised missiles (of some kind) were deployed in the events which ensued that day.

But there may be a further slew of criticism and controversy now coming Rebekah's way. 9/11 has always been a hotbed of conflict, and there's not a single 9/11 researcher without a large number of detractors! We may hear more about this in days to come. :)

[ThePythonicCow]

My wild 9/11 theory #27 (please know that my wild 9/11 theories #1 through #26 have all been thoroughly discredited):

Rekekah Roth and Jim Fetzer are both covertly speaking for elements of the Anglo-American-Zionist intelligence agencies -- Rebekah (an alias) for one faction endeavoring to reveal some more of (likely not all of) the truth, and Jim for another faction endeavoring to keep some of those same elements hidden, or at least endeavoring to keep the 9/11 controversy bubbling for some reason, perhaps just to continue the distractions and fears.

In other words ...


I figure the odds are quite high that Rebekah's appearance and name are a disguise, and


I find Jim's grounds for discrediting Rebekah to be rather thin - just (1) that Rebekah's identity is disguised, (2) a plausible conjecture as to who she really is, or at least another of her aliases, a CIA agent, and (3) the claim that the absence of flights 11 and 77 in the BTS [Bureau of Transportation Statistics] data base for that day really is evidence that those flights never left the ground that day.

[Slorri]

My wild 9/11 theory #27 (please know that my wild 9/11 theories #1 through #26 have all been thoroughly discredited):

Rekekah Roth and Jim Fetzer are both covertly speaking for elements of the Anglo-American-Zionist intelligence agencies -- Rebekah (an alias) for one faction endeavoring to reveal some more of (likely not all of) the truth, and Jim for another faction endeavoring to keep some of those same elements hidden, or at least endeavoring to keep the 9/11 controversy bubbling for some reason, perhaps just to continue the distractions and fears.

In other words ...


I figure the odds are quite high that Rebekah's appearance and name are a disguise, and


I find Jim's grounds for discrediting Rebekah to be rather thin - just (1) that Rebekah's identity is disguised, (2) a plausible conjecture as to who she really is, or at least another of her aliases, a CIA agent, and (3) the claim that the absence of flights 11 and 77 in the BTS [Bureau of Transportation Statistics] data base for that day really is evidence that those flights never left the ground that day.

I believe they are. But "covertly" can be "unknowingly".

[tnkayaker]

Thanks Paul for bringing this well organised package of material together. I am going to now listen to these interviews and read much more.

My question at this juncture is, how come Rebecca Roth has managed to stay unharmed through bringing this research into the main? Max Igan always reminds me to ask this of any source that brings information to light. Why has Rebecca been 'allowed' to continue bringing her findings 'out' ? For what purpose? Who benefits?

Cheers
Debra
well I remember the native American called Splitting the Sky whos you tube posts may still be up but he was a about to publish a book explaining who made the most money and basically the rest of the story, he was suicided, oops I mean he slipped and fell oh the stairs behind his house where he had lived for years, hes dead, and had strangely made the comment to his close friends that if anything happens to him to ask questions, its a shame, maybe rebeca has been tolerated because her book is written under the fiction or novel category(s) similar to Dr Savage's recent books that hit home pretty well but also he writes under fiction/novel category ,and he still talks on talk radio most nights for a few hours,

[ThePythonicCow]

My wild 9/11 theory #27 ...:[INDENT][INDENT] Rekekah Roth and Jim Fetzer are both covertly speaking for elements of the Anglo-American-Zionist intelligence agencies
...

I believe they are. But "covertly" can be "unknowingly".
Yes - excellent point - I agree. Often many of us, including perhaps ourselves, end up speaking for hidden elements of the elite, quite unknowingly.

[ThePythonicCow]

... that Rebekah Roth, and a quite different internet personality called Monika Gainor, are the same person. ...

And ... wouldn't you know it ... the counter argument, debunking the claim that Rebekah Roth and Monika Gainor are the same person, has now been posted.

At Rebekah Roth-Monika Gainor Psyop (GoyBiscuits.com) (http://goybiscuits.com/item/358-rebekah-roth-monika-gainor-psyop.html), Jim Fetzer, in his report that he has been receiving reports that Rebekah Roth was really Monika Gainor, has also posted without further direct comment, this graphic that purports to debunk the Roth-Gainor connection:

http://thepythoniccow.us/Rebeka_Roth_Monika_Gainor_INCONSISTENCIES.jpg

[Flash]

it effectively does not need words. I do think that the alternative media has become the ordinary media by trying to debunk and rebunk and debunk absolutely everything.

A picture tells replaces a thousand words. Why the first paranoi wannabe debunker has not look at the pictures of their faces to start with goes right over my head.



... that Rebekah Roth, and a quite different internet personality called Monika Gainor, are the same person. ...

And ... wouldn't you know it ... the counter argument, debunking the claim that Rebekah Roth and Monika Gainor are the same person, has now been posted.

At Rebekah Roth-Monika Gainor Psyop (GoyBiscuits.com) (http://goybiscuits.com/item/358-rebekah-roth-monika-gainor-psyop.html), Jim Fetzer, in his report that he has been receiving reports that Rebekah Roth was really Monika Gainor, has also posted without further direct comment, this graphic that purports to debunk the Roth-Gainor connection:

http://thepythoniccow.us/Rebeka_Roth_Monika_Gainor_INCONSISTENCIES.jpg

[ThePythonicCow]

And ... wouldn't you know it ... the counter argument, debunking the claim that Rebekah Roth and Monika Gainor are the same person, has now been posted.
Another (the only other) image of Monika Gainor that I've found:

http://thepythoniccow.us/monika_phix_yourhealth.jpg
The pHix Your Health website no longer seems to be online.

I don't have a Facebook account; perhaps someone with a Facebook account could check whether their Facebook page is still online: https://www.facebook.com/PHixYourHealthRadio/

[avid]

Facebook: Not available at the moment....

[ThePythonicCow]

My hunch, after further listening to Monika Gainor on her Youtube channel Phix YourHealth (https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCGIwAY0A_no1QJKfr2DM9OQ) is that the rumor that she is Rebekah Roth is a false rumor, started to confuse and denigrate Rebekah Roth's reports and reputation. The rumor was apparently started by "whispering in the ear" of a few alternative media stalwarts, such as Jim Fetzer.


I find Monika's voice quite similar to Rebekah's, but slightly different. That comparison is inconclusive.
I find Monika's face to be similar to, but with some pretty clear differences, as posted above. That comparison weighs toward them not being the same person.
I find Monika's personality to be more "pleasing", and Rebekah's more "in charge." I would trust Rebekah to command an entire flight attendant crew and panic'd passengers in an emergency situation. I wouldn't trust Monika (or myself, or most anyone else) in that role.
I find the breath and originality of Rebekah's 9/11 research and analysis to be substantially more disciplined, deep and original than Monika's research into essential oils (which was a significant part of what she and "Mike" were selling on their apparently now defunct Phix YourHealth website.)
I have no clue why the rumor that Rebekah is really Monika also includes the claim that Monika is CIA.
We do not know the actual source of the rumors told to Jim Fetzer and others. This makes these claims at best second or third hand hearsay evidence, which is not high quality.
Watching Rebekah now, as I type this, in a recent SGTReport interview she did a week ago, on Youtube here (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xjOqcGSTL5M), she seems as real as it gets to me. That SGTReport interview of Rebekah Roth is excellent - I recommend viewing it.

I currently doubt that Rebekah is the same as Monika. We'll see.

[jaybee]

[LIST]
I find Monika's voice quite similar to Rebekah's, but slightly different. That comparison is inconclusive.



Someone with better computer skills than me should do a voice comparison thingy-


twice I've tried to add a link about free software to do with voice analysis but it didn't take - but it can be internet searched by anyone like I did...


.

[Chuck_M]

I found the following at Truth and Shadows, which tends to undermine the theory of Westover as a base for landing the planes:

https://truthandshadows.wordpress.com/2015/04/21/a-novel-idea-rebekah-roths-methodical-illusion-and-what-happened-to-the-planes-on-9-11/


anastasia
December 30, 2015 at 11:34 am

OK, I called Westover Air Reserve Base this morning 12/30/15 at 11:10 A.M. Eastern Standard Tiime and I have proof on my cell phone. I called “Military Housing” Office, and I spoke to a person and posed the question about on-base housing. They asked who I was (and I told them), and she put me on the phone with Military Housing Deputy Director, Jim Grandchamp. Deputy Grandchamp told me that he was a marine on active duty on 911 at the Westover Base and was on active duty there from 2000 to 2006. Hee told me that there is no “on base” housing now or since 1972 (there is military housing off base, but none on-base since that time). He was so nice that I asked the second question about evacuation, and he told me that there was “no evacuation of any personnel on 911 and no one was put up in any hotels or anywhere else”. He then gratuitously told me that there was a heightened alert on that date, but no evacuation of any personnel. I asked him if I could use his name and he said he had absolutely no problem with that and spelled his name for me. He gave me his name, rank, etc. and was very amiable.

[sigma6]

Brilliant, I haven't seen this level of scrutiny in any 9/11 video to this degree...
This lady has really done her homework... connects Cheney to the Mossad and all the companies in between... POW!!


911: From Cheney to Mossad
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9/11 BOMBSHELL: METHODICAL DECEPTION - Rebekah Roth
qdP95oSoOFk

[ThePythonicCow]

Brilliant, I haven't seen this level of scrutiny in any 9/11 video to this degree...
This lady has really done her homework... connects Cheney to the Mossad and all the companies in between... POW!!
Yes - very interesting stuff.

Since both of those Youtube videos were previously posted at one time or another on this Where Did the Planes Go? (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?88102-Bombshell-Logical-Proof-Exactly-How-They-Installed-Demolition-Fuses-in-9-11) thread, I have merged your new post into this existing thread.