Internet is full - changes required by telcos / ISPs etc

[witchy1]

Is this the re-engineering (control) of the internet that has been spoken about before: Perhaps the IT gurus have heard about this?

An ariticle on SMH today about what is becoming an urgent matter for ISP / telcos and customers to upgrade from IPV4 to IPV6 before Jan 2012 otherwise there apparently will be no more room for new ISP addresses and customers (us) wont have full access to stuff (stuff= websites etc thats about a technical as I get) Full article here to fully understand:

http://www.smh.com.au/technology/technology-news/crunch-time-for-upgrade-of-internet-addresses-that-are-running-out-20101116-17v26.html

"As with anything that exists on the internet, anything connected to the internet and anything transported across the internet, an address is required — called an IP (internet protocol) address — that acts like a phone number, allowing every individual device, piece of data or location to be found in the digital labyrinth.

But the existing 32-bit internet routing system, Internet Protocol version 4 (IPv4), is only capable of hosting 4,294,967,296 addresses. So, when the remaining global pool of some 204 million addresses runs out, as is expected before June, no new devices or websites will be able to connect — unless they've transitioned to IPv6, the latest 128-bit incarnation of Internet Protocol, which can store up to a whopping 340,282,366,920,938,463,463,374,607,431,768,211,456 (or 2^128) addresses"

"The biggest issue is that IPv4 and IPv6 don't talk to each other. Though IPv6 devices communicate happily with their less-evolved IPv4 cousins, it doesn't work the other way."

" A breakdown is inevitable. It won't be immediate and it won't be dramatic but it will happen, slowly and subtly, as little bits, mostly the newer IPv6 bits of the internet, fail to appear to anyone still using IPv4 architecture"

"The IPv4 internet and all the devices and sites we're accessing now will still work exactly as they do now but when IPv6 devices and sites start appearing online, the existing IPv4 infrastructure simply won't be capable of recognising them and small, random pockets of the new internet will be inaccessible by older hand-helds, routers, modems, servers and operating systems.

Upgraded websites won't appear on machines running old software and hardware and even your shiny new IPv6-ready handset will not be able to display your weather update because your telco may not have upgraded its own IPv4 back end"

However, the individual regional pools will likely have enough IP addresses to last until late January 2012, after which there will be no more IPv4 spots available.

Hhhhhmmmmmm ???????

[Celine]

Well i am definetly NOT a techie minded person..

I would assume..just like Y2K, the people who are techie minded are well aware and have invented...

www.02

or something similiar..

[witchy1]

Hi Celine, I cant display that webpage???? They ahve been working on the "new internet" (or IPV6) for 10 years and are pushing for implementation by Jan 2012. Will wait to hear from those that know a bit about it....might be nothing - but......................

[sjkted]

We've been hearing about this for the last five years. Each year, we are supposed to run out but people come up with ingenious new ways of running NAT. One of the main problems is that big companies and governments are hogging IP Address space in class A that they do not use. There are a number of ways this could be fixed ... ipv6 is just a proposal which may or may not happen any time soon. If it does happen, it will require a large number of changes and potentially take older computers off the internet that are not ipv6 enabled.

--sjkted

[jcocks]

Yeah I remember the same thing being said about the IP address space back in 2002..... No change, but I'd imagine we're a lot closer to actually running out of addresses now than we were then...

[Mu2143]

Its all about control , so whats the deal? You get a unique number thats the deal. Computers can translate numbers to other IP addresses ,just like in LAN to WAN they can do the same with Internet service providers. So there lying if they say they run out of numbers its like saying we stop printing money when we run out of zero's!!

[TigaHawk]

they're running out of ip addresses, for the non techy people.

even tho you have addresses, such as www.projectavalon.net and www.news.com.au.... its not realy the www.abcdefg address, its a "mask" so to speak. the mask translates the website name, into a number, which is in a 123.456.789.022 format.

out of that many posibilities in numbers, a certain chunk of those are reserved, for use in home/office networking, and arnt used on the internet.

and from the remaining chunk of numbers, they're devided out via country, and when you buy a domain name (ie www.projectavalon.net), you need to link that www address, to where say the project avalon server is physically sitting, which is a server with a 123.456.789.022 number type address.


so they're running out of numbers, and the new preposed format is what's called IPv6 (current version is IPv4)

IPv6 is composed of something like fe80:b879:1aed:6cdb:ed84

so with the letter and number format, + its 1 digit longer each group, gives them a crapload more addresses.


So it wouldent realy be hard just to switch over to the IPv6 system, the framework is in place for windows 7 to use both ipv4 and ipv6 so they can slowly transition everyone over to 6, therefor running out of numbers issues solved. it wouldent be hard to get everyone updated to ipv6, just have the transitioning sites which have both ipv4 and ipv6 to detect which one you're on, and send you to a microsoft/whatever patch site to grab a fix. however..... the real problem is this....


the PTB may use the excuse of running out of numbers and switching over to IPv6 as a chance to setup everyone onto the "new internet version 2" - wether it be government being able to kill your'e net connection if you get caught pirating/downloading stuff you shouldent, to being on a pre-censored and setup net. to them being able to map the net out more thurrorly if they force everyone to register through them to get onto this new framework so they can keep closer tabs on you.

[TWINCANS]

My email server was off as they said they were participating in World IPv6 Day.
Any ideas what that will mean?

[OBwan]

IPV4-IPV6

The best metaphor I can think of regarding IPV6, is long distance phone service.

• If you are in the area code, only seven digits are needed, 456-7890
• If you are outside of the area code, ten digits are needed, (123)246-7890

IPV6 uses a longer number. The original designers of the numbering system (IPV4) did not envision, design or believe a world-wide network would result from their implementation. The numbering scheme had to be increased to support today’s need.


Network Address Translation (NAT)

When you call an 800 number for purchasing a product or contacting your bank, the extension number of the phone representative you speak with is unknown. The phone system automatically sends the call to a list of available representatives. Network Address Translation (NAT) can be thought of in the same metaphoric way.

The Internet functions with NAT very effectively in many ways, hence the reason for many implementations using this method. NAT was to be an interim step to address the lack of available addresses. With many corporations and Internet implementations are functioning and there is lack of motivation to change to the “New Method”. If it is working, do not fix it is the conclusion for many.


Internet Phone Book

The Internet has a “phone book”, and it is called the “Domain Name System” (DNS).

• Numbers can be stored in the Internet phone book with a 32 bit address (IPV4)
• Numbers can be stored in the Internet phone book with a 128 bit address (IPV6)

The "phone book" for the Internet translates human-friendly computer hostnames into IP addresses. For example, the domain name www.example.com translates to the addresses 192.0.43.10 (IPv4) and 2001:500:88:200::10 (IPv6).

• If your computer uses IPV4, the 192.0.43.10 number will be used to route your request
• If your computer uses IPV6, the 2001:500:88:200::10 number will be used to route your request

The allocation of address IPV4 or IPV6 is dependent upon what country the ISP is located. Some countries in the world only have IPV6 addresses to assign. The interim solution (Hack) will only function for a finite amount of time before it becomes inefficient.


Testing IPV6

In any computer implementation testing needs to be done at some point. Metaphorically speaking, the long distance service was tested. The test being successful indicates to me that the Internet will be able to function with both IPV4 and IPV6.


Question

My email server was off as they said they were participating in World IPv6 Day.
Any ideas what that will mean?

Your ISP was testing their implementation of IPV6. From a technical perspective this had to be done. The follow up question for your ISP would be, “Are you IPV6 ready?” Hopefully this will prevent your e-mail server from ever going offline again.


Summary

• A computer will function with IPV4 or IPV6 because if the Internet “phone book”
• You may not have a choice for an IPv4 address depending upon the ISP or county
• Network Address Translation (NAT) will continue to be implemented and a better choice is to use IPV6 in the long run
• If your ISP is not IPV6 ready, it may make sense to change your ISP

[gabbahh]

the PTB may use the excuse of running out of numbers and switching over to IPv6 as a chance to setup everyone onto the "new internet version 2" - wether it be government being able to kill your'e net connection if you get caught pirating/downloading stuff you shouldent, to being on a pre-censored and setup net. to them being able to map the net out more thurrorly if they force everyone to register through them to get onto this new framework so they can keep closer tabs on you.
Yup, IPv6/ipsec allows for every device connected to the internet to have a unique number. This allows them to track all data traffic end-point to end-point. This of course to protect us from the evil haxors, which in fact are we ourselves. So they just want to save us from ourselves.

Wouldn't it be great if those new verichips also had unique ip numbers? This would ease the stupid public of remembering passwords. And terrorist can be easily tracked and instructed. Oh wait.

[zebowho]

It doesn't matter what numbering scheme is used, EVERYTHING on the internet needs a unique number. Now those IP addresses not used and available in a pool (ISP's IP pool) can be hijacked and used to "impersonate" another machine but there can't be two of the same number online or there is a conflict and neither device is recognized. So in reality, all devices can be tracked all though there are ways around this. It doesn't matter if its IPv4 or IPv6.

It comes down to math. 32bit name spaces are not an easy thing to explain, look up 32bit addressing and you'll quickly understand. There is nothing nefarious about IPv4 running out or the implementation of IPv6 other than providing more unique device addresses. It all comes down to the limitation of the mathematics involved in determining, in this case a number, the maximum unique variations of machine code (1's and 0's) to create a 32 bit number. Here's an overly simple metaphor, "12 is a dozen, try to fit any more in and it ceases to be a dozen". In the case of computers/IP enabled devices, they need to recognize more than just a "dozen" (32bit numbering) and this is where IPv6 comes into play its a 128bit number, not 32bit....its all in the math and nothing more!!

-z

[gabbahh]

EVERYTHING on the internet needs a unique number.
Nope, subnets. We have a router. Behind that router there can be many devices. The only things really in need of unique ids are servers and local access points (wifi). Mapping LANs and VLANs is no biggie.

Routing
Use ip to send packets from server to server. At server use database + MAC or other id for mapping to devices/users.

No real need for ipsec. No need for deep packet inspection, no need to map data to users. But it is coming. Its all math.

[zebowho]

I guess I should have specified "public" IP addressing. NAT addressing is "private", ie: not on the outside/internet and even LAN's, VLAN's need a "public" (unique) IP otherwise how are you getting in? Even on internal networks you need a unique number for those devices no matter how many, and still need that unique IP on the gateway (door to the outside).

Still, we're talking about the internet right? The limitation is on the outside (internet) not necessarily private networks.

**If we really want to get technical, look at the TCP/IP header and there will be a port assigned to the IP as well.

[RMorgan]

Google has a page that you can test if your computer is compatible with ipv6 or not. Mine is.

Here´s the link:

http://ipv6test.google.com/

Cheers,

Rafael.

[zebowho]

There's no question IPv4 addresses will run out, it will happen eventually but when? As I've said and Gabbahh has reiterated it all comes down to the math. That's all. There's no "evil plan" to make them run out or implement something else that can handle more devices.

[gabbahh]

Still, we're talking about the internet right? The limitation is on the outside (internet) not necessarily private networks.
I know. I also understand the logic for ipsec. We were just discussing the possibilities and dangers. This design allows end point to end point mapping of devices and users. And total control. I don't think these are unintended consequences.

I wished they had chosen a different sollution.

And if we get really technical, I talk a lot to ports, however when they talk back, they/I use xsd mapping!

(I jest, I know every session has a unique port/hexadress on both sides)