Asks the question: Is the Earth the insane asylum of our Galaxy?

[Earthlink]

This man, Jaque Fresco, the founder of the Venus Project, has got stamina to spare, and determination! He's just not going anywhere until some action on these very important issues begins to manifest!

http://www.filmsforaction.org/watch/the-choice-is-ours-2015/

[panopticon]

This man, Jaque Fresco, the founder of the Venus Project, has got stamina to spare, and determination! He's just not going anywhere until some action on these very important issues begins to manifest!

http://www.filmsforaction.org/watch/the-choice-is-ours-2015/

Thanks Earthlink.

I always like to see where Jacque Fresco is in his project development.

The Venus Project (https://www.thevenusproject.com/en/) has been discussed at Avalon a bit and I'd missed this presentation so I'll download and watch later.

Cheers,
Pan

[ghostrider]

there was a time in the very distant past , other ET's dropped off criminals to Earth with no technology , Earth was a sort of prison for them , being remote and on the outer rim of the Milkyway ... they have done this again in the 70's , capturing the Bafath who were living under the great pyramid of Giza , controlling the world with religion and impulse technology ( they were deported to a remote planet with no technology to live out their incarnation ) ...

[Earthlink]

Fifty Shades of Grey is only romantic because the guy is a billionaire. If he was living in a trailer, it would be a Criminal Minds episode.

Earth: The Insane Asylum of our Galaxy!!!

[Earthlink]

ummm ... 50 shades of grey analogy:

(suiting)

There are more than 50 shades of grey. Grey would be those varying shades that exist between black and white, and neither black nor white is a shade of grey.

Anyway, if I had control of a hollywood mask production unit, and most of the actual human technology, I could easily convince anyone of virtually anything.

And I'll just tell you what I know of space and time. The reason Gene Roddenberry set the maximum speed of the Enterprise, the vessel in the TV series Star Trek, at 1300 times the speed of light (warp 7), is that without going hundreds of times the speed of light (warp 1 through warp 7) none of what happened in the series would have happened, as in, we would still be watching them all, and their crazy antics, while they would still be on route to the first, closest, other, class one planet within our galaxy.

Those speeds are an actual representation of the distances between us, out here, in the "playpen" section of our galaxy. (truly. who in the galaxy wants to deal with an adolescent civilization where their first response to you MAY BE to nuke a bunch of your primary industry and population centres and then subjugate all of the remainder of you?)

Anyway, there's "stuff" floating around in space. Lots of it, like rocks and ice balls and crystals ... and if your vessel is travelling really quickly, these objects could rip you and your vessel to shreds if you do not avoid collision with them. This is a very real limiter on to how fast we will ever be able to go, for, our forward obs and sensor ranges need to be developed first, before we can begin to clear routes, and/or at least have the ability to remove debris in our path. "long range sensors", a term used in the same series, and something we are working on today, though I don't know how concentrated an effort. I also believe the laws of physics to be universal, and the reality of the distance doesn't change for any species from any of the class 1 planets. Interplanetary travel out here will always be a voyage the duration of which will be measured in centuries. Always.

[thepainterdoug]

yes. it is

[Wind]

Jacque Fresco is a great visionary, here's the video.

PizMuqZUWbY

[greybeard]

Could be called Purgatory.
Chris

[Maunagarjana]

Sure feels like it to me. That's why I made this meme.

https://i.imgur.com/iTLB4XQ.jpg

[huyi82]

yes, we are also quarantined, no soul can go past the milky way, there is a barrier to stop us going further.

[Ulyse30]

,...hors limites,nous pouvons atteindre des niveaux supra-temporel,extra-temporel,intra-temporel,...
,...a partir de nos corps d'humains,notre soul, peux se détacher et voyager,hors limites,car il n'y a aucune limite,pour les immortels,...
,...nous ne craignons rien,ni quoique ce soit,...
,...il n'y pas de crainte ni de peur,...

,...we can go beyond,...
,...we can because we are immortal,...(soul),
,...we are intouchable,...
,...we are plots Divine,...
,...if You think about the Source,You will find Your way to home,and come back to Earth,in Your human body,...
,...here we can anything,...
,...because the impossible is an illusion,...

[Earthlink]

.. I'd be happy staying in the Milky Way (our galaxy) There are more class one planets in our galaxy then there are people on Earth. Way more.

[panopticon]

As Wind mentioned the video the thread appears to be about is:
PizMuqZUWbY
I've been watching the Venus Project and Jacque Fresco for a long time.

My reason for this is I have an active interest in societal reconstruction that goes back a number of decades.

Personally I advocate for a different form of society based around Permacultures principles and practices (as anyone who has read many of my Permaculture posts at Avalon would know).

That having been said, I view that the Venus Project is an exceptionally "clean slate" model for off-world settlements.

In the past I have criticised the Venus Project for its lack of a transitioning plan. My criticisms have been addressed to some extent over the last few years however I still haven't seen a transitional arrangement that I would view as actionable. Fresco still seems to believe that total systemic collapse will need to occur before his envisioned system could exist. I don't see a total collapse resulting in anything other than a chaotic dark age and possibly at least one more large dictatorship. What history shows is that this is what happens and it gets back to my constant mantra about Money (as a representation of the various forms of capital including social, cultural etc as well as financial), Control and Power. In the event of a collapse those who have money & power would exert their control. It's my specific way of viewing interactions within both the macro (Nation-State/Multi-National Corporations) and micro (a surprising number of individual interactions make use of these same dynamics) which works exceptionally well.

While these are my views of the weakness in TVP I do see there is a possible intersection between Fresco's vision and the post transitional phase under something similar to the Permaculture/Transition model.

Anyway, to the video at hand.

I thought maybe some of us might like to discuss the information portrayed in it section by section to review what is presented and extend on aspects if we can. If not, no worries...

So, in the first section (after the introduction - so the 15 minutes from around the 8 minute to 23 minute mark) the presentation essentially revolves around the nature versus nurture argument (btw, the presentation also misspells Henry D. Schlinger surname as Schilinger).

This is a huge area all by itself and I agree with the argument presented in the video. For me it comes down to the physical and human sciences (especially neuroscience, genetics, sociology and psychology).

I'll just mention the physical science aspect in this post but I am happy to chat about the influence of primary and secondary socialisation etc on the development of an individual as well as their use within society as a control mechanism (in particular as applied by the State & similar institutions within modern Western representative democracies via, for example, legitimate force/violence, conformity coercion, normalisation techniques).

Anyhow...

Science and nature versus nurture...

I view that nature and nurture are intertwined and create new/reinforce old genetic predispositions.

Well may you ask what the hell that means and how "nurture" has anything to do with creating genetic predispositions.

Glad you asked. :)

First off let's have a look at an exciting area that many here are probably aware of but is well worth the background for those who may have missed it. Hold on because it can be a bit complicated but is really really interesting (at least for me!).

That field is epigenetics.

So what is epigenetics you ask?


Epigenetics comes from the Greek term “epi” meaning on or around the gene. In simple terms it’s a mechanism that describes how genes can be switched on or off by chemical signals, a bit like a dimmer switch on a light, without altering the DNA structure.

These signals can alter the way genes produce proteins or signal other genes and importantly, they can last months or years and are potentially reversible. These epigenetic switches are triggered by many factors such as our lifestyle, environment and our age, and as the development of a growing foetus in the womb is totally dependent on these signals, it can alter the function of its cells.
Source (http://theconversation.com/how-your-grandparents-life-could-have-changed-your-genes-19136)


For example, it's proposed that a person can have a beneficial outcome on their genes (and from this health etc) just from having a positive outlook. Also that eating/doing certain things can be very bad not only for you but could also be creating a genetic predisposition within you children and even grandchildren for specific diseases, physical traits and even their psychological well being!

Imagine that!

Sounds all new age and airy fairy but it's hard science and cutting edge.

It shows how nature & nurture both have an impact, not only at the social environment/psychological condition of an individual but also on the individual at a genetic level...

Anyway...

Here's a very cool introduction to epigenetics:
kp1bZEUgqVI
The Swedish study referred to in the above video is the Överkalix study
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%96verkalix_study

Here's a more indepth introduction:
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Tim Spector (Professor of Genetic Epidemiology at King's College London) wrote a really good and accessible article on this, back in 2013, that is well worth a read:
How your grandparents' life could have changed your genes (http://theconversation.com/how-your-grandparents-life-could-have-changed-your-genes-19136)

Here's Spector's TEDx presentation:
1W5SeBYERNI
If you've watched the above videos you might be feeling a bit despondent and thinking that there is nothing you can do because of your ancestors inconsiderate lifestyle choices (or maybe you're really chuffed at their responsible choices)...

Fear thee not! All is not lost! Far from it. Your conscious choices (including exercise, health, lifestyle, eating habits, mental state etc) influences how your genes develop and how your health progresses (not to mention that of your children and grandchildren).

I'll call this... Gene Wars: Nurture Fights Back!
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Take away quote for me from the above video:

Genetics may load the gun, but epigenetics pulls the trigger.

So, while our life choices and behaviour is influenced on the macro by our environment there is also a genetic predisposition involved.

In other words: Nature & Nurture both play a factor.

Here's a pretty cool graphic I found which should make sense to those who watched the introduction videos above:
http://www.epialliance.org.au/images/content/What-is-epigenetics.jpg

How cool is all of that! :)

-- Pan

[Earthlink]

ok ... so, Pan is going to Purgatory ... but it is his grandparents fault for not knowing the difference between a good diet and a poor diet?

Seriously though, this little blue marble of a planet we call home is the only place we're ever going to know. Whatever states of being you can imagine, whether heaven or hell or purgatory, all of them can only exist here.

And speaking of which, I've been across Canada, all over the New England States, upper NY, and China. This place is more than adequate. More than beautiful, and more than sufficient to house your soul.

The only thing that could possibly interfere with the natural state of bliss that can happen here, would be the advent of something known as "your ego"

I'm in engineering, and, don't see the merits in discussing ego, but perhaps a quick study is in order here. Is there a co-relation between the fictional places known as heaven hell and ego?

[panopticon]

ok ... so, Pan is going to Purgatory ... but it is his grandparents fault for not knowing the difference between a good diet and a poor diet?

Seriously though, this little blue marble of a planet we call home is the only place we're ever going to know. Whatever states of being you can imagine, whether heaven or hell or purgatory, all of them can only exist here.

And speaking of which, I've been across Canada, all over the New England States, upper NY, and China. This place is more than adequate. More than beautiful, and more than sufficient to house your soul.

The only thing that could possibly interfere with the natural state of bliss that can happen here, would be the advent of something known as "your ego"

I'm in engineering, and, don't see the merits in discussing ego, but perhaps a quick study is in order here. Is there a co-relation between the fictional places known as heaven hell and ego?

G'day Earthlink,

I guess that's an attempt at humour?
Must be a Canadian thing cause I don't get it.

Did you want to discuss the video you posted and/or TVP?

-- Pan

[Earthlink]

well, i always say that if you're not laughing a lot, you're just not paying attention enough, so, yes, it was humour.

as far as the Venus Project goes, sure, I can discuss that, but it basically is more of an idea than it is anything else. the realization that had we spent trillions of dollars on ourselves and our Home, and not someone else's idea of repeated great expenditures known as WAR, we'd already be where we want to be.

[Earthlink]

oh, and one other thing about the Venus Project *idea* that I could add, is that you should all know where the Tree's that are cut down are going:

governments are just more corporations, and they only do one thing: they subsidize other corporations, with our value (money). it doesn't matter where in the world Tree's exist, we give them all the monies they need, plus hefty profit, to cut those Tree's down, ship them, bleach them and colour them, and turn them into the wrapping paper around McDonalds hamburgers and coffee cups for Tim Hortons.

the next time you see ANYTHING from any of the fast food chain stores, please remind yourself that all of the packaging you are looking at is from some forest somewhere far off, and, the further away that forest, the more you now owe for its' creation and destruction. (shipping and handling included)

as they become use once and then discard items, the subsidies given to shipping companies and the pulp and paper industries must, therefore, continue: for ever.

*sings* insane in the membrane ... INSANE got no BRAIN

ultimately, to me, the venus project is just one logical engineer's reaction to what amounts to blatantly insane practices.

[Earthlink]

... and sure, I guess, I'm between jobs right now, so, I could discuss nurture vs nature, but how about I purpose the first subject(s)? Instead of discussing the effects of nurture vs nature on the general population at large, how about we first discuss the effects of nurture vs nature on the few suited ones who always decide when and where and why "we are all going to war"? and, the kind of nurturing required to have men in suits who do actively declare wars. This is a much more extensive type of nurturing, and far too expensive to apply to the entire population, though, mass nurturing is being directed at the general population, it is nowhere near as in depth as the nurturing that takes place amongst this group who declare wars.

What are your thoughts on these men who declare wars, and, are they the product of nature or nurture?

[panopticon]

More of the visionary work of Jacque Fresco & TVP (from 2012):

KphWsnhZ4Ag
-- Pan

[Earthlink]

thank you for not making me use any harsh words in defence of nature

[Omni]

"Is the Earth the insane asylum of our Galaxy?"

In my opinion yes. This is a great point with likely much truth to it. Very possible one of the punishments of betraying a race and helping create hells is descending to a new hellish world after global first contact happens. The people who have souls that are so programmed by draco ways may incarnate on hells like earth. Planets like Earth are the hells of the universe. Lower evolutionary development is brutal enough without malicious ETs pulling strings.....

I don't think Earth soulular inhabitant is 100% summed up as insane asylum, but some are likely here because they have no place in the universe other than on hellish worlds...

[ulli]

Perhaps. Personal perception of this diverse melting pot counts.

Even the insane can have moments of lucidity.
And some are ready to leave and brave the outside.

[Omni]

Perhaps. Personal perception of this diverse melting pot counts.

Even the insane can have moments of lucidity.
And some are ready to leave and brave the outside.
I agree, as someone said on a forum(forget which) even Hitler had some sage advice every once in a while. I don't dominantly see Earth as a prison planet personally. But it is one perception I find value in exploring. I do like exploring different perspectives.

[Earthlink]

Well, to me, the moments of lucidity came too infrequently. I've been "The Guardian of the Butterfly" only to watch Nature be reduced to places known as hatcheries.

And, there are those here who claim ownership of this entire piece of real estate known as Earth, and these systems of "order" and "value", are nothing now but words written by those who died long ago, and these words still run this ship.

That kind of makes it automatically an insane asylum, as in, charting the course by dead words instead of living acts. Using written words as the guide means there is no room for "soul". Only ego is capable of fulfilling an existence such as this.

[MorningFox]

ummm ... 50 shades of grey analogy:

(suiting)

There are more than 50 shades of grey. Grey would be those varying shades that exist between black and white, and neither black nor white is a shade of grey.

Anyway, if I had control of a hollywood mask production unit, and most of the actual human technology, I could easily convince anyone of virtually anything.

And I'll just tell you what I know of space and time. The reason Gene Roddenberry set the maximum speed of the Enterprise, the vessel in the TV series Star Trek, at 1300 times the speed of light (warp 7), is that without going hundreds of times the speed of light (warp 1 through warp 7) none of what happened in the series would have happened, as in, we would still be watching them all, and their crazy antics, while they would still be on route to the first, closest, other, class one planet within our galaxy.

Those speeds are an actual representation of the distances between us, out here, in the "playpen" section of our galaxy. (truly. who in the galaxy wants to deal with an adolescent civilization where their first response to you MAY BE to nuke a bunch of your primary industry and population centres and then subjugate all of the remainder of you?)

Anyway, there's "stuff" floating around in space. Lots of it, like rocks and ice balls and crystals ... and if your vessel is travelling really quickly, these objects could rip you and your vessel to shreds if you do not avoid collision with them. This is a very real limiter on to how fast we will ever be able to go, for, our forward obs and sensor ranges need to be developed first, before we can begin to clear routes, and/or at least have the ability to remove debris in our path. "long range sensors", a term used in the same series, and something we are working on today, though I don't know how concentrated an effort. I also believe the laws of physics to be universal, and the reality of the distance doesn't change for any species from any of the class 1 planets. Interplanetary travel out here will always be a voyage the duration of which will be measured in centuries. Always.

Only by your (our) limited understanding of things.

Not really the best way of talking, in absolutes, as if we understand everything.

[Earthlink]

uhhh ... until I learn something new, which happens daily, I just accept what already is. The next closest star to our own is 4 light years away. That would be travelling for 4 years at the speed of light, or, roughly 380 million miles per hour. Also, if you're in a vessel and travelling from one place to another, at high speeds, what do you do with all of the debris in front of you? And if we discuss the theoretical ability to travel multiple times the speed of light, we would be going faster than our lasers would be able to clear the debris for us, since lasers work at the speed of light.

This leaves only science fiction here now, as in, "holes in space" or other such time and space bending constructs that could enable quicker transport between vast distances, and as of todays date I'm just leaving these things under the heading "fiction"

those in engineering lack the ability to entertain fiction as fact, you really need to shock them with the purple electricity first before they will entertain the idea that purple electricity exists. they either come to something on their own, or, proof is needed, and this is just the nature of this class.

[MorningFox]

Removed
-----------------

[Selkie]

I am of the mind that all beings...on earth or off of it, organic or inorganic...must be nuts in their own way.

I say that with tolerance and affection, btw :)

[Earthlink]

With the Birds I share this lonely view.

[Davejp34]

I would say that there is a great deal of truth to this statement, through my own contact experiences & also many years of listening to witness testimony I have drawn a few conclusions relating to this topic. Many of the races out there view us as being primitive, savage, selfish & non spiritual beings. I remember a story I heard about a guy who purportedly worked on one of these ET/Human joint projects working on reverse engineering ET craft & that being a exact words were that human beings don't smell quite right, you are repellent to us. The witness experiencing this misunderstood & said but.. I've showered only this morning & used deodorant, the ET responded by saying it's not your smell exactly it's your essence there is something wrong about your auras, your inner being & it is repellent to us. This coupled with man kinds constant threats to each other, the natural environment & the fact that we are not a future seeing society as a whole this just all adds up to us not being very popular here on this planet across the galaxy & the secret government, humans doing dodgy deals with a couple of ET races that has not gone down well either but there are a few who still see our potential & still see a bright future for us but time is running out & those who have been chosen must stand up & redirect this civilisation along a new & better path.

[Earthlink]

Thanks Dave, I am trying to stand up now. The imperative is here.

And if I could say one thing in our defence it would simply be "evolution". The only thing that travels faster than light, is thought. It is instant, unlike anything else, and it has the ability to span the galaxy. In any event, just as the "smartest" person on Earth today would be less than 3 years old right now, so too does our entire planet exist within our galaxy right now as, relatively speaking, the less than 3 year old. We're one of the smallest planets, with one of the smallest stars, (planets and stars do grow over time, they all do) making us one of the youngest.

By being born when we were, we are one of the most highly evolved yet. This is a built in un-avoidable consequence of evolution, which can be simplified by just saying that everything that happened before we arrived has already been recorded and stored in the massive energy stream that I call the Universal Consciousness, so we avoid walking the same path that others walked before us. It is why children are always smarter than their parents, and on a planetary scale, it works just the same.

Believe it or not, we have actually done more, sooner, than any of the other planets before us. In our galaxy right now, we are one of the genius children to all the other giants (grown up stars and their planets) around us.

As life is quickly becoming extinct on this planet today, it is very hard to discern this, however it is the truth.

[Davejp34]

Thanks for your response Earthlink you have made some interesting points there :) I would agree that we have huge potential here on this planet & that our children are smart & quite a few of them are enlightened, the problem is that we live on a planet where the leaders & the government's they represent are corrupt & not forward thinking enough, that's not to say that there are no people on our side & working to do the right things in positions of power & influence, there are but there are too few of them, those that fight for our freedoms & out future deserve a great deal of our support, admiration & we should be feeling very grateful. But more must change for our planet to reach the next level & for more humans to be enlightened & feel safe & like they are moving forward towards a better tomorrow. Our friends up there cannot understand our governments, money systems & our stagnated transport systems across the world not to mention our shadow governments, secret space programs & black budgets, they gave tried to assist us many times & in some places they have had some success but there is still alot of frustration with how things are going. We have huge potential but we are constantly holding ourselves back or others are holding us back, we have support out there its time the borders came down & the corrupted systems were taken down, we must become an open enlightened planet again, we must tolerate each other much better & be willing to welcome our intergalactic visitors with open minds & open hearts. I was told a few years ago that some of these awful Co op ET/Human operations that are going on would not be tolerated anymore, I heard awhile back that some of these underground facilties are being destroyed or made inactive & inoperable, we are being helped such alot & one day we will thank our supporters in great numbers across the planet, a better time is on the way but there are a few forks in the path to negotiate yet before we get there.