Alcoholism, Love, and Mind-control

[Robin]

Hello friends,

After going through a harrowing life experience involving falling in love with an alcoholic, I thought that I'd reach out to Avalon to share my thoughts, emotions, and knowledge about the disease known as Alcoholism.

Inspired somewhat by Bill's thread on Alzheimer's Disease (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?78069-Caring-for-relatives-with-Alzheimer-s-the-modern-curse-of-the-elderly), I thought that this would be a good avenue for others to share stories about how they have been affected by friends and family members who are alcoholics. A little bit of love and support from awake and aware folks would be kind of nice right about now.

I have been in a relationship with the most amazing woman I have ever met for nearly two months. Though it doesn't seem like a long time, she and I have become best friends and have fallen in love to the point where we saw a beautiful future with one another. We consider ourselves to be soulmates, and it literally seems as if we were tailor-made for one another in this lifetime. This was no simple infatuation, and we both feel that we are who the both of us have been looking for romantically our whole lives.

Sadly, I just broke it off with her due to her alcoholism. Though we have spent hundreds of hours with one another in deep love in this short time and got to know every little bit about one another, there was one trait about her character that I could not accept: She is addicted to alcohol.

Like me, she is an E.T. soul who has had visitations and inter-dimensional encounter in her past. Neither of us were able to fit in on this planet, and we both felt alienated ever since we were young children. The way we came together a couple of months ago was nothing short of perfectly synchronistic as if we were supposed to meet here and now.

Sadly, she was born in a family full of chaos. She was emotionally/mentally/physicaly/spiritually abused and neglected by her whole family, especially her mother. Her father disappeared from her life at a young age, and she suffered a series of abandonment and traumatic events throughout her whole life. Her parents both drank a lot of alcohol, and her mother is currently a functioning alcoholic who sits at home, watches television, and drinks during all of her spare time.

In her adolescent and young adult years, she also suffered a string of traumatic events. In her quest to seek out Unconditional Love, she brought in many men in her life who ended up abandoning her after finding her authenticity unattractive and unappealing. One of these men got her pregnant and then forced her to have an abortion, which was excruciatingly traumatic for her. From then on she spiraled out of control and couldn't make peace of mind.

She was in an abusive relationship for a year with a sociopath who manipulated her and caused her such a vast amount of emotional abuse that all of her self-esteem left her as a human being. Having also been diagnosed with a disease and being thrust onto pharmaceutical medications for a time, her physical body was also damaged.

After suffering so much trauma throughout her whole life, she has developed what she recognizes as PTSD. She has a fear of abandonment and now has severe low self-esteem. Because of her genetics, and because of all this trauma, she has become addicted to alcohol as a way of self-medicating.

It's such a shame, really. As soon as I met her I was captivated at the beautiful and amazing soul that she is. Underneath all of this trauma and alcoholism, I see the most sensitive, beautiful soul I have ever met. I have a deep empathy and sympathy for her, and I offered her the Unconditional Love that she has always deserved.

We fell in love, but I quickly found that she was an alcoholic. She even recognized that she was an alcoholic, but she is at the point where she does not care or want to change. She is such a mean drunk that she says things to me that I would never even say to my worst enemy. It was emotionally exhausting and impacting my life negatively.

After taking in a string of emotional abuse from her for a while, I decided that I will not allow myself to be her punching bag, no matter how much I love her. I told her that until she decided that she wants to give up alcohol for HERSELF out of a sincere desire, I cannot be with her. I do not deserve to live a life of abuse with somebody who refuses to help themselves. I will absolutely offer her my love and support the whole way through, but only if she decides that she really wants to stop drinking.

I feel empowered for having the integrity to make this decision, but leaving one's soulmate is a difficult thing to do. After all, I'm really not compatible with many other people on this planet, and I'm very sensitive and picky about who I want as my partner.

Most of all I feel sad. I feel sad that such a beautiful soul can be morphed into a monster because of the atrocities of the society we live in. All she ever wanted was love, and society beat her down over and over again. I feel like I am abandoning her just like every other person in her life, though I know this is not her authentic self. I love her authentic self, but I need to set certain boundaries for myself.

She is on a fast-track to living her life as a full-blown alcoholic and repeating the same behaviors as her abusive mother. She has already told me that she plans on living a solitary life hating society and not interacting with anybody.

I'm not looking for the typical "You will find somebody else, there are plenty of fish in the sea!" This isn't the point. She is my soulmate, and I will always love her.

What I would like to hear is:


Has anyone else been involved in a loving relationship with somebody who is an alcoholic?
How are you able to cope with alcoholism?
Do you feel bad for abandoning alcoholics to their own device?

Thanks for reading! :)
Robin

[Omni]

Greetings Robin, thank you for the heartfelt post. Your posts are pretty much always quality IMHO.

What I would like to hear is:

Has anyone else been involved in a loving relationship with somebody who is an alcoholic?
How are you able to cope with alcoholism?
Do you feel bad for abandoning alcoholics to their own device?


My sister was deeply addicted to alcohol. I would pick her up from bars to avoid her getting a DUI or worse. When I would pick her up she would pretty much always say "just ONE more beer", she drinks beer at about the same rate glaciers roll down a mountain... The amount of time I have spent 'waiting' for my sister in my life is pretty monumental... One memory I have is when we were in a place in Wyoming called "Jackson Hole", pretty unique place with a beautiful view of the Titons(sp). Ended up waiting like 3 hours for her there >.<

Eventually she quit alcohol, with support of her family. The reason why was that she felt she was in a dead end life, living at home, constantly hanging out in bars getting drunk. In an abusive relationship with another alcoholic she met at a bar. One thing I told her is to not find a boyfriend in a bar, she didn't listen....

Anyway, now she is a success story,. She has her own place to stay, a nice job, a nice car, a bright young kid named Isaac that everyone loves(such a little ball of light he is). It IS possible to kick the addiction. But the person has to make that decision for themselves.

I think the best way to get someone to stop drinking could be a reality check like what you did by leaving her. Alcohol is such a horrible drug IMO. I quit drinking around the age of 16 until about 27. Then I quit again somewhat recently. It is always a choice someone has to make themselves.

Have you tried reasoning with her about quitting? Does she value alcohol more than love with a soul mate? Does she have any thoughts about her mother's lifestyle that she doesn't agree with? Perhaps you could mention her mother if she doesn't sit well with being like her mother.

I wish I could help brother. I feel your pain. I'm just like you, finding a compatible person is almost impossible. In the end if someone enjoys alcohol more than love that is their choice. I think you made the right decision by leaving her due to abusive tendencies. It isn't healthy to have one's heart played with like that...

Hopefully she will kick the addiction with your help. Perhaps cannabis would be a good alternative? I've never met anyone that gets more abusive after smoking cannabis. I know what it's like to be addicted to substances to feel happy. After so much torture I find I am highly addicted to cigarettes, and any feelings of relief from the torture is something i gravitate towards(cannabis helps with torture immensely i have found).

:bump2:

[RunningDeer]

In 2006, I/We lost sibling #8, my sister, "B" to drinking. Each of us helped in our own way either, financially, a place to stay, some enabled her with alcohol. No accountability was expected of her because she knew who to go to with sad puppy-eyes.

I’d drive two states up on Sunday to support her in recovery and therapy. After three months into this one year program, that a family member pulled some big strings to get her in, she signed her self out. "B" called a taxi and her first stop was to a bar. Another brother took her in and the same behaviors continued. That was my line in the sand. She knew how much to push and with whom. In the end "B" died alone. We surmised that she was reaching for the phone because she was found on the floor by her bed.

I only had one question that I would ask myself: What action steps is B taking to care and to empower herself? The answer was a nada, only make believe promises. Illusions of us believing her lies.

It don’t want to leave it there. I love my Sister. I’ll share how she’s still around:

Several years ago, another sister, “Cindy” and I were coming back from a pajama party at our cousins' place. I was prompted by B to share what I felt. So I told Cindy that B was with us the whole weekend. She agreed but it was more out of courtesy. Cindy's most comfortable when she wears an analytical hat.

I added that she’s here now in the back seat. Then out of the blue silly putty popped in my head. B who had lovable elf/imp DNA prompted me one last time. She wants me to ask you about silly putty.

Cindy is holding back tears while she reaches into the console between our seats and pulls out silly putty. Unbeknownst to me B had given it to her a year before her passing. It was a reminder to play.

<3


http://i1262.photobucket.com/albums/ii610/WhiteCrowBlackDeer/images-2-2.jpg http://i1262.photobucket.com/albums/ii610/WhiteCrowBlackDeer/images-1.jpg


Most of all I feel sad. I feel sad that such a beautiful soul can be morphed into a monster because of the atrocities of the society we live in. All she ever wanted was love, and society beat her down over and over again. I feel like I am abandoning her just like every other person in her life, though I know this is not her authentic self. I love her authentic self, but I need to set certain boundaries for myself.

What I would like to hear is:


Has anyone else been involved in a loving relationship with somebody who is an alcoholic?
How are you able to cope with alcoholism?
Do you feel bad for abandoning alcoholics to their own device?

Thanks for reading! :)
Robin

Good for you for setting boundaries for yourself, Robin. You can’t be there for someone when you are pulled and stretched and warped out yourself.

The alcoholic abandons him/her self long before everyone follows suit. One can’t fix another. You can support them while they do the work. If they’ve chosen to not be responsible for their life, it’s time to step out of the support role. Otherwise, your an enabler, an active participant in feeding into the dysfunction.

RunningDeer <3

[13th Warrior]

We all have our crosses to bear and demons to confront on our own time...

Soulmates are only real in Hollywood movies and fairy tales; unconditional love is without constraint.

It's a human condition to overdetermine(label a problem with a single term to simplify understanding a complex issue). Most humans are unable to live the life of the crane.

[3(C)+me]

I have dealt with alcoholism/drug addiction pretty much most of my life, until recently. See I have uncles and brothers who were alcohol/drug dependent so since I was born I had to deal with this. I have a long term love relationship with a person with these issues, I was young and naïve and thought if I just loved them enough It would work out but alas it just couldn't do it anymore so, after many years being miserable, I left. That started me going to therapy and dealing with my family issues and relationship issues. The female line of my family tend to be enablers and get called things like "your grandmother was a saint" while the men tend to be drunks and liars (not all but a lot). So like most of us humans I had some issues I needed to deal with and I knew if I didn't deal with them I would continue to repeat this pattern and I was hell bent on not doing that.
Recently I had a very good friend, a neighbor actually and we became quiet close. There is a honeymoon period in all relationships where both parties put the best for forward but as time goes on the cracks start to show in both people. The two year mark for me is critical because a person can only fake good for so long. She was a wonderful person but she had a tendency to escape into alcohol when stressed and she also was probably had some sexual issues. Using sex for self-medication purposes. She didn't really want to change and I knew I couldn't go on as it was becoming quiet painful to see her need to not deal with the problems she had. When her behavior began to impact me on a practical level I know it had to be dealt with It was hard to tell her that this relationship has become painful to me and why, these discussions are never easy for me but over the years I have done this many times and so it was discussed. I didn't blame her or ask her to change but just said this is hard for me and here is why.
I know that in this life I have to get my S**t together and so I do not have any active addictions, I say active because I come from such a family that I can fall into addiction very easily but I know that this lifetime I have to toe the line or I will get blasted and I am not going to get what I need to get done done, and I need to be completely sober. She had a different set of criteria and I do not judge or blame her for that. I have seen a uptick in addictions I would imagine because of the times we are in, how intense it is and how some people will not go through years of therapy white knuckling it and living on the edge, it is a challenge. But for me it was a easy choice, deal and get better or die. And see, I want to be around for some time to see how this whole thing turns out and I want to be in a body that is healthy and on earth.

[waves]

This was my rude awakening from once thinking an alcoholic was my soulmate.

I realized that in the more intelligent? alcoholics, the alcohol blows both some deeper insight and deeper survival doors open. You are attracted to what appears to be their extra-open vulnerability to you - and you take it as a rare acceptance and love/vulnerability being given to you. But they are recognizing a vulnerable sitting duck that they need. They can see your buttons deeply and put on an oscar worthy act of getting you to attach to them and convince you they really mean what they say... but it's more that they need someone to be the stable force in their life to survive. Their total flip to a mean, vicious opposite towards you is the clue that the nice side is also just as much an out of touch, out of control, confused, lost soul. This person does NOT feel back for you what you feel for them, and may be unable to.... ever. They also needed your energy besides the alcohol which is why you felt drained.

I do know some shorter length/later in life few years alcoholics who fully recovered their minds, but also know some where there is permanent damage, and their words to those who try to offer care will never again be trustable long term.

Just my experience, maybe some part rings true for you.

Best wishes.

[13th Warrior]

"Soul Mate"

Who or what is a soul mate?

Are there two souls created by a creator with the intent to be connected on a spiritual level for eternity?

How does such a concept square with the idea of all is One; creator/creation and the merging of consciousness with the One...

[johnh]

Robin, you have got more courage and integrity than most people and you have to stick to your position. Having been around a lot of alcoholics, family and lovers, I can tell you that they will not get better until they have reached their "bottom line" and for some that is rigor mortis. Alcoholism is a spiritual disease, literally. They will also have entity attachments who are enjoying the habit and these can be cleared with her consent, taken out of her energy field, which will decrease the pressure to drink quite a bit - she is not the only soul enjoying that alcohol - but she attracted them in the first place. Booze is an anesthetic that numbs the pain of samsara, the inherent pain in the human condition by having a body, knowing one is on "the wheel" and having no internal refuge. She must find that lost thread internally and cultivate it.

Also helpful along with clearing would be five element acupuncture and/or shamanic soul retrieval. She may have too many lost soul fragments, due to trauma, past lives, etc., there are ways to mend this. Ayahuasca with a competent shaman would help, also. But she has to get to that point where she decides to reach up and out, down and in, for what she needs. Start with prayer, incessantly.

Over thirty years ago when I was thirty five, I fell in love with a woman who had a generational demon, which situation was exceedingly dangerous and took me years to figure out, physical phenomenon not withstanding. About five years ago I broke it off completely, but learned a lot. She wants the demon - we cleaned her up three times, and she is quite wealthy now through its power, and I am financially strapped (and worn out). This is a kind of alcoholism in itself, and when she dies she will go where her friend lives.

So, hold your ground, or there will be little of you left when you die. Pray for her and by your actions show her your character. You're
developing it now.

I can feel your pain - God's Grace to you.

[Omni]

Soulmates are only real in Hollywood movies and fairy tales; unconditional love is without constraint.
It might seem that way from an unconnected to the universal society point of view, but this is false IMHO. I have spoken to extraterrestrials who live in a ship with their soul mate, and pet(s)[they like cats]. Their pet is soul family. Their kids are soul family. This is how advanced races deal with the scientific truth of reincarnation and the soul.

One ET race definition of a soul mate is someone you incarnate with every lifetime, you reincarnate and are born with genetics that are perfect for one another, and have souls that are perfect for each other as well. This is done mostly in advanced societies they said. They did say there are pros and cons to each, being a soul mate of someone and being a 'wanderer'.

I personally view it like this at this time:
I will have a soul mate eventually. I do not have one right now. I have a bunch of possible soul mates in the world and greater galaxy/universe. Current girlfriend who I think could be it possibly.

I also think its fine to think someone you have been with even a few times as a soul mate. There are a few definitions for the words.

I made a video about Extraterrestrial Perspective on Soul Mates, it is on my youtube channel(in signature). I wont link it in thread as it's not really the topic so much...

[greybeard]

Join Alanon is my suggestion.
That is for the partners, friends of sober or performing alcoholics .
It has the same twelve step program.
There are but a few who cam understand an alcoholic other than another alcoholic.
Thats why AA works
I know.
One day at a time.
Chris

[gripreaper]

We all have our crosses to bear and demons to confront on our own time...

This is so true. We have no idea how deep the imprint goes into the very core of the soul, how many lifetimes a belief has been imbedded there, how many experiences have grooved and re-grooved the belief, or how much pain is associated with the hurts and betrayals.

Sometimes a soul wants so badly to resolve an energy block that it chooses a series of experiences to try and break a deep deep groove of several lifetimes, cutting very very deep into the psyche and the core. Sometimes it is only your closest galactic Twin Flame who will agree to co-create such a massive attempt to do such in a single lifetime, where most would take 50 to a hundred to unify an energy with such amplitude. It is generally the greatest avatars who choose the deepest core experiences and try to do it all in just a few lifetimes.

On a free will planet, we have to let other souls fulfill their own soul contracts and to walk their own path, which does not give us a license to be insensitive or to not apply compassion, but there is a thin line between help and enabling, a very thin line. Only when the soul is ready and the person embodying the soul wants to change, and is sick and tired enough of being sick and tired of cutting the same old groove lifetime after lifetime after lifetime, can the energy be brought back into alignment.

No one can do that for you, no one...

[Agape]

Hi Robin , think further .. two weeks are too little to know or judge a person.

In that age , you and your metabolism are still very much in evolution .. that's how alcohol is especially dangerous and maybe damaging for young brains ..and bodies .
If you love her .. and think you have the 'soul-mate' type of bond ..( no , I don't think it's precisely 'hollywood invention' but it does not occur with everyone , the same way rainbows do not occur each time after rain ..)
perhaps you want to help her out . She's still too young ( if in your age category ) to be called 'alcoholic' but she abuses it , self-medicates as you say
and needs to recognise this is harmful to her .

And , you're perfectly correct that she herself needs to make strong resolution and decision against it .

There is told to be genetic - hereditary disposition - towards alcohol abuse but it does not really mean she has to become alcoholic .

If she's 'ET soul' as you insist , she'd probably give up about anything to find another soul like yourself .


P.S. Yes I had one friend , maybe in your age or younger , whom I left for about the same reason ( it was far from the only reason but this seemed to be the main ).
My friend that time worked in arts and architecture , and the 'team' used to go to pub or bar each and every day , after work . Which I did not know because we met each other in India where there was no alcohol available to him and he obviously wanted to stay clear of it .
But , a year or two later .. this 'partying habit' became obvious , firstly on weekends when we went to see some good friends , it was wine on the table and beers for the men , i don't drink beer from principle .. and don't like the smell .. so I'd have wine and fun and watch them getting drunk to the bad ends .

I was teaching meditation all those years and my relation to alcohol is respectful one ,
but I tried to stay non judgemental and supportive , we both loved each other .

Of course there were other factors that came into game later .. that's how I'm telling you that two weeks is not enough to accept or discard a person..

when I recognised that handling such type of behaviour would be completely beyond my life volition , neither I wanted to have 'a family' or imagined life settled in any other way so I said bye ,
it was not easy .. we gave each other a month of tender support and friendship before I went back to monastery .. and friend gone back to his old girlfriend , after 2 years .

Conclusion .. after almost 20 years , he's now married for second time , has two kids , quite a complicated life style between two families , works ..and drinks, more or less .

But it's different from person to person.. and especially for young lady , alcohol is very damaging . Maybe you'd be the one to help her out ..




:llama:

[Mike]

Many alcoholics and drug abusers have been so down for so long, that they really can't remember what it was like to feel any other way, and therefore have no point of relativity from which to operate and are quite literally "lost". On top of this they are so worn down physically, mentally and emotionally from countless failed attempts to sober up that they have very little left in the tank. Its often a hopeless uphill battle.

The best we can do as loving supporters is to try and remind them what they're fighting for.

Excellent post Robin! I really admire your ability to express yourself this way.

[greybeard]

As far as personal love goes, that will not get a person sober.
Again I’m speaking from personal experience.
The alcoholics thinking is so distorted by the illness that they come to believe that alcohol is their best friend--the only thing that sees them through the day.
Another’s love is not the priority--getting a drink to see them through the day is.
They actually tend to feel unloved, undervalued, despite of any evidence to the contrary.
Its a mental, physical, and spiritual illness.
These three things have to be addressed in order for lasting recovery to come about.

The late Dr David Hawkins was a great supporter of AA and he was able to measure energy fields, his contention was that an AA meeting had the quality of unconditional love, which surpasses what we think of a personal unconditional love--its a different frequency all together.
Through sharing, the newcomer realises it does not matter what they have done, the members are truly equal as they all suffer from the same condition called alcoholism.
The new comer will usually listen to sober members who are in essence the same as them. They are unlikley to listen to those who have not been there, friends, loved ones, Dr's clergy.

So Robin unfortunately you are on a hiding to nothing unless you can get your friend to go to AA.
The success rate is very high.

You are welcome to show her this post if you think it may help, as comes from the heart of a recovering alcoholic.

With love
Chris

[Matt P]

This is gonna seem cheesy (and The Mexican is not a favorite movie) but this quote has always resonated with me:

Samantha: I have to ask you a question. It's a good one so think about it. If two people love each other, but they just can't seem to get it together, when do you get to that point of enough is enough?

Jerry: Never.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

"So it’s not gonna be easy. It’s gonna be really hard. We’re gonna have to work at this every day, but I want to do that because I want you. I want all of you, forever, you and me, every day…" – Ryan Gosling, The Notebook

"I'm selfish, impatient and a little insecure. I make mistakes, I am out of control and at times hard to handle. But if you can't handle me at my worst, then you sure as hell don't deserve me at my best." – Marilyn Monroe

OK, got those out of my system.
Robin, your story doesn't sound like the typical relationship experience. Soul mate. Those are strong words to be saying so early in a relationship. If you thought this woman was your soul mate, how can you know after only 2 months that it won't improve/work? 2 months is just a drip of time. Maybe you came to her to help her. Maybe she came to you to help you. I don't know but if you truly feel so strongly for this woman, fight for her. True love is worth an extraordinary effort. I have been married for 20 years (together for 23) and there have been some tough times. We separated for 6 months. We had our issues. But love was always there and she was always my best friend and so I looked at every struggle as something to learn and improve from and get past and I found a way. Now, 23 wonderful years and two amazing children later, I can't imagine if I had ever given up when it got difficult. In only 2 months how could you have exhausted your ideas? If she's so special, find a way. Fight for what could be. Don't get down the road and regret not giving the effort it sounds like she deserves. It might be the hardest thing you ever do but imagine the reward if you're successful.
Just the opinion of some guy you don't even know! ;)

Matt

[Selkie]

Quoting Greybeard-----They actually tend to feel unloved, undervalued, despite of any evidence to the contrary...


Actually, this young woman has been given plenty of reasons to believe that she is unloved and undervalued. She has been treated like garbage her whole life by everyone she loved and trusted:


Quoting Robing Galdek-----Sadly, she was born in a family full of chaos. She was emotionally/mentally/physicaly/spiritually abused and neglected by her whole family, especially her mother. Her father disappeared from her life at a young age, and she suffered a series of abandonment and traumatic events throughout her whole life. Her parents both drank a lot of alcohol, and her mother is currently a functioning alcoholic who sits at home, watches television, and drinks during all of her spare time.

In her adolescent and young adult years, she also suffered a string of traumatic events. In her quest to seek out Unconditional Love, she brought in many men in her life who ended up abandoning her after finding her authenticity unattractive and unappealing. One of these men got her pregnant and then forced her to have an abortion, which was excruciatingly traumatic for her. From then on she spiraled out of control and couldn't make peace of mind.

She was in an abusive relationship for a year with a sociopath who manipulated her and caused her such a vast amount of emotional abuse that all of her self-esteem left her as a human being. Having also been diagnosed with a disease and being thrust onto pharmaceutical medications for a time, her physical body was also damaged.

After suffering so much trauma throughout her whole life, she has developed what she recognizes as PTSD. She has a fear of abandonment and now has severe low self-esteem. Because of her genetics, and because of all this trauma, she has become addicted to alcohol as a way of self-medicating.

A two-month relationship with one young man, as sincere and wonderful as he may be, is not enough to undo a lifetime of horrific abuse. It is absolutely no wonder at all that this young woman is an alcoholic. I am surprised that she has not attempted suicide, and it says something about her grit and determination to stay alive in the face of horrible abuse and victimization.

But this girl needs more than A.A. She needs the help of very knowledgeable and dedicated councilor or therapist.

All that said, I am glad that you are taking care of yourself, Robin, and I'm glad that you did not let her continue to abuse you :)

p.s. It has been shown that child abuse actually damages a person's brain structures. The brains of the victims of child abuse are not like the brains of non-abused people because the person grew the brain they needed to survive the abuse. So the effects of child abuse are not just psychological. This is why it is so hard for someone who has been abused as a child to change. They are not just changing their ideas and feelings about themselves. They actually have to change their brain structures, particularly their amygdalas, and that takes a great deal of time, effort and dedication.

p.s. Child abuse damages all of the structures of the mid-brain and damages the connections between the forebrain and midbrain, which is why it is so hard for someone who was abused as a child to control themselves. Child abuse also damages the HPA axis

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypothalamic%E2%80%93pituitary%E2%80%93adrenal_axis

which set the person up later in life for metabolic diseases like thyroid disease and diabetes.

Everyone has their breaking point.

[Domo67]

Hi Robin,

I gave up alcohol 9 years ago, obviously I don't regret that at all, it hasn't been easy though and its not for everyone.

What I find interesting here is the relationship part, I seem to have been in and out of similar situations to yours since I got sober, it wasn't so bad when I drank as it numbed the pain but since then these amazing bits of poetry have played out in my life full of syncronicities and amazing energy only to be taken away as quickly as they appeared, I remember reading that we attract the same vibration of relationship as where we left the last one which made sense for a long time ... then I discovered the love bite ...


http://veilofreality.com/2014/11/22/the-dark-side-of-cupid-hyperdimensional-interferences-in-love-relationships/

This might not be what you want to look at right now but I can assure you it helps a lot with the heart ache, I basically see these things as being out of my control I take ownership of my part in it and move on' what the reality of these situations is remains to be seen .. for me anyway. To take more control of your next relationship or the possible re - ignition of this recent one you might want to look at what Cameron Day has to offer regarding contract removals inserted by the ankle biters :-) Why wouldn't they manipulate the energy of love? Seems some of us may have been deceived into having contracts regarding difficult relationships ... certainly would be no surprise!

http://www.ascensionhelp.com/blog/2013/11/21/tell-the-lords-of-karma-that-you-are-sovereign-no-longer-a-lightworker-part-2/

Funnily enough one of my x bits of poetry has just made an enquiry and I feel a whole lot more confident about the situation with the above knowledge, chin up mate, Domo

[Tesla_WTC_Solution]

Oh my gosh :) I thought you left PA!
(Have not seen Samwise lately)

___________________________

First, hello -- welcome back to posting -- I recently had a break of my own due to an argument here,
but hopefully people can look past that to accommodate good acquaintances :P

I am surely not the only person who has missed Samwise posts :) heh

____________________________


When people talk about alcohol in the modern world, the trend is to point at childhood.
But everyone knows, alcohol has a much longer history and is a much bigger problem than one set of parents or another.

The modern origin of alcohol is traceable to the legend of the Great Flood or Deluge.
In most mythologies there is a flood story, and in many of these mythologies,
right after this flood story, is the apparent advent of vine-worshiping faiths.

Bacchus, etc.; all these things IMO point back to this one earth-shattering event that people call "The Flood".

Why am I talking about that? Because it's THE FUNDAMENTAL TRAUMA that most humans look back to.
Making alcoholism a spiritual, cultural-level illness, not just an individual issue.

The legends say that after coming out of the ark and seeing the devastation on earth,
that the old civilization was just *gone*, Noah did the only thing he could think of,
which was planting a vineyard and becoming a drunk while trying to raise his sons.

it didn't go well for him, as he did not any longer have the time to supervise.
and the lack of supervision is far more damaging to the family that any amount of drinking.

_____________________________


My dad struggled with booze most of his adult life.
He had started out on hard drugs in high school, then later migrated to alcohol after being somewhat clean for a while.
It was a narrow window of his early twenties that was drug free, if at all.

He never was able to stop drinking and smoking although he managed to change types of liquor from time to time,
to try to save his sanity. It was really hard watching someone hurt themselves so much just to escape from life.

He ultimately passed away due to what was said to be Oxycontin overdose, due to trading with a second cousin who had connections.

(my dad was definitely close to what you might call an ET soul, think of the Serbian dragon soul article I posted recently and youll see)
______________________________


I live in a town now, where alcohol is THE thing, like in my state, our town is THE PLACE to drink, aside from the capital and the big city in the sound.
I had to quit cold turkey living in THE DRINKING TOWN, lol. This happened about a year and a half back.

My therapist had noticed my beer habit growing, due to the loss of our home in the big city a few years back. Which sucked.
Also we had some major trouble providing for our disabled child.

The therapist suggested wine, but I overindulged, and had a scare involving a balcony (not to mention inconvenience for my friend/family).
So about two weeks prior to my state-sponsored evaluation for a court case, I quit drinking cold turkey.

I have not had a drink of alcohol of any type knowingly since prior to the end of November 2013.
I retained my cannabis Rx and miss beer a whole lot. But knowing that I am not the type who can just have two and leave it at two,
I had to stop.

_______________________________


The person with whom I am living had a very severe alcohol dependency prior to our marriage.
We met online so I was not clear on the addictions. However since the November I mentioned, I have not permitted a drop of alcohol to come through my door.
He left me twice since then, once for four months, during which time I know he did not uphold the pact not to drink.

But I did not indulge in drinking.

________________________________



Now Robin, you probably know what I am gonna say,
that alcoholism in and of itself, is a symptom of another issue.

It can become its own issue, but it can never equal the catharsis that is searched for by the damaged person,
or be the self-silencer they desire if suicide is too scary (yikes!).
I.e. dealing with alcoholism is very frustrating.




One of my siblings had that trouble over the last 10 years or so,
and without really noticing what I was doing, I enabled that some of the time.
However since that ended, my sibling did grow up a great deal and is now working toward being a certified accountant.
I have no idea if drinking still happens, it's not really my business, but i hope they quit.



and i am glad you're back;
thanks for the heartfelt share regarding the last two months.







p.p.s. alcohol IS a societal issue.
imo the prohibition was not a bad thing for USA,
but the truth is, people do need a "break" sometimes and that seems to be the irony of life.
balancing act between wakefulness and sleep.

Some people favor the drunk to the pothead because the drunk tends to write less.


p.p.p.s. someday we might hear about detox camps, as isolation from alcohol-Land is a necessary part of shedding drinking for some ppl.

[gripreaper]

This thread made me think of this song... Greybeard you speak with such truth on this subject.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F1_6yCHnSI4

AS I sat in a pool of my own tears, with nothing left to gain and nothing left to lose, no more identity as a man, a father, a husband, a productive member of society, a brother... none of these mattered anymore, nowhere could I get a foothold into life, and who was there? If it was not me sitting there as no one and nothing, than who was observing? If I am not, than who is?

I took a tube and ran it inside the cab of my truck and as I sat there with the windows up and the exhaust pouring in, who was it that I was trying to kill? Had I really made a choice to end my life and go? Go where? Anywhere but here and this pain. At that point there is nothing left but a single choice, do you want to live or do you want to die?

Next thing I know the alcohol started to come up and I was puking all over myself. I wake up what was several hour later on the ground outside my truck, with a raging headache and I shut the truck off and crawl inside to go lay down. For days I just lay there trying to breathe... To this day I have no idea how I got there, but I speculate that my soul wanted me to finish this life and the lesson.

Had I made a choice? Had I chosen to live? I cursed at the dis-incarnate avatars who have never been in a body and have no f'kin idea what it is like. I cursed my own soul for choosing to come to this f'kin planet and denied that I would ever in any capacity choose such pain.

But, I finally fed myself. It was the first act of self love since my demise. This small choice, this choice to live, was followed by another choice, to take a shower, and then each choice was choosing to live rather than choosing to die. I had turned the corner. One small step at a time.

Here I am today. Each decision is still that choice. We either get busy living or we get busy dying, but for me, vacillating between the two is what was painful. Once I made the choice, that's when the energy began to move and change.

Sounds trite and the alcoholic is not going to hear my story, but maybe some of you will.

[Natalia]

"I believe in unconditional love, but I don't believe in unconditional relationships. There must always be a condition of kindness." ~ Jeff Brown

(no one is kind all of the time, but there has to be enough kindness and not too much unkindness, for there to be a healthy enough relationship, though it may not be an easy desicion to stay or to leave, or when too, when your soulmate is going through a crisis)

<3

[greybeard]

Some times "Tough love" is required.
Performing alcoholics tend not to seek help till they hit rock bottom.
While a person is still drinking therapy cant help as the real person is not there.
Until AA came along you died from Alcoholism.
The founder Bill W. tried all forms of help even visited Carl Jung who said "Even my science and my art can not help you."
Bill W had a spiritual awakening and AA was born.
AA twelve step program is a therapy.
Having spent some time on the program I can say there are no hopeless cases, every sober Alcoholic is a walking miracle, as long as the person practises the 12 steps sobriety is guaranteed.
There is only one problem--the person is addicted to alchol---when the person begins to recover life becomes very manageable and even the hard times are coped with.

http://www.aa.org.au/members/twelve-steps.php

With love
Chris

[Selkie]

When I was in Andalucía I drank much too much. As soon as I came away from that abusive situation, my drinking dropped back to normal levels and has not been a problem since.

[Selkie]

...AA twelve step program is a therapy...

One of the main problems for people like Robin's girl is that they have never known the presence of a benign, benevolent authority figure. All of their authority figures have either been abusive or neglectful, leaving the young person at loose ends and requiring them to parent themselves, and often being parentified as they try to cope with an alcoholic parent, or parents, thus making them vulnerable to more abuse as they keep trying to get unconditional love*** from all the wrong people.

So I have a question for you, Greybeard: does A.A. provide benevolent authority figures for its members?**

Because a great deal of the good that therapy does is that a therapist acts as a benevolent authority figure. Benevolent, non-intrusive, respectful guidance is the heart and soul of therapy. A benevolent authority figure stops the internal careening that abused people feel, and gives them a still point from which to navigate their lives, like the North Star gives us a still point, by which we navigate the tossing seas and find our way to a safe harbor. A good therapist re-parents the client while respecting their adulthood and their right to make their own choices and mistakes. No easy job.

**Because this is real life, and not a fairy tale, I suppose that there are good A.A. chapters, and bad ones.

***To me, unconditional love means not having to pay for love. It is the opposite of narcissistic love, in which the person pays for "love" by performing, in one way or another, for the "love" they receive.

[greybeard]

Hi Silkie
First and foremost AA works.
People come from all kinds of situations--terrible deprived of love and abused childhoods to the very opposite.
Alcoholism has no respect for your social position, back ground.

If you feel the need you can ask a person in AA to be your sponsor---an experienced member who can help guide one through the twelve steps.
There are respected members but no authoritarian figures---they would be ruled by their ego and desire to control so would not stay sober.
Authoritarian figures even loving ones would be unlikely to work with/for an alcoholic, as they hate to be told what to do.
The need for a benevolent figure is met by surrender to a Higher Power--The God of your understanding.
AA 12 steps is a spiritual program.
Check the 12 steps link I posted.

There is a difference between problem drinkers and alcoholics.
The problem drinker loves to drink, not a problem to them but they may create chaos for others. They have a degree of control over their drinking..
The alcoholic has no choice but to drink.

With love
Chris

[Selkie]

...There are respected members but no authoritarian figures---they would be ruled by their ego and desire to control so would not stay sober.
Authoritarian figures even loving ones would be unlikely to work with/for an alcoholic, as they hate to be told what to do.

With respect, Greybeard, I did not ask about authoritarian figures, I asked about authority figures. They are not the same thing. They are not the same thing at all. Human beings never outgrow the need for human authority...NOT authoritarian...figures. Not even as adults. It is one of the vulnerabilities of the human animal.

p.s. No decent therapist would dream of telling a client what to do. Outside of a job, I hate being told what to do, too...what adult does not?

**********************
au·thor·i·ty fig·ure

noun

noun: authority figure; plural noun: authority figures

a person who has or represents authority.

**************************
au·thor·i·tar·i·an

/əˌTHôrəˈterēən/

adjective

adjective: authoritarian

1.
favoring or enforcing strict obedience to authority, especially that of the government, at the expense of personal freedom

**********************

p.s. A person can be an authoritarian and yet be completely lacking in any genuine authority.

[Robin]

Wow! Thank you all so much for your kind, heart-felt responses. I read each and every comment thus far on this thread three times to take in all of the wisdom embedded in each of your personal spiritual journeys. I knew that many of you would be able to relate to at least one part of my story, and this kind of topic is something that I do not typically express myself on. Sometimes I do feel the need to set aside my analytical mind and express my feelings, and right now, there is great sorrow that is walloped inside of me.

I pretty much took the last two months off of Avalon to enter a new birthing process of gestation of deeper thoughts and emotions that I found accumulating inside my chakras. I took the last two months off from writing my book too, because I felt deep within myself that there was something big in my life that I needed to experience to cross the barrier of having a deeper understanding of the human experience. Currently, I'm just beginning a deep grieving process and the emotions I'm feeling are so profound and convoluted that I find it impossible to express in words.

First, to clarify, I use the term "soulmate" precariously and loosely. I do not wish to get into semantics concerning this thread, but I wish to elucidate that by soulmate I simply mean that this particular individual's frequency resonates with my own as if we were harmonized from the same harp. There is also an inherent feeling that our spiritual missions are intertwined.

If anybody is familiar with the life of Johnny Cash and June Carter, well, it very much feels that way. Synchronistically, I have a tattoo of Johnny Cash on my back that I got about five years ago out of a deep appreciation for the dark side that we all possess and must overcome. June came into Johnny's life and gave him the love and support to keep his addiction at bay, and she provided the framework for him to feel grounded in reality.

My other tattoo is of the Kabbalistic Tree of Life with the Pleiades above it. Both of these tattoos are big parts of what my soulmate embodies, and it feels like I subconsciously got these tattoos knowing that it would be part of my mission to help this person. We were wonderful representations of Yin and Yang, as her creative and intuitive intelligence balanced out my analytical intelligence. She was the Water to my Air, the emotional fortitude to my mental fortitude.

I feel that part of why I am here is to help my soulmate overcome her own issues, and it is an inherent feeling and desire to do so. Perhaps it is just my deep empathy to want to help people and end suffering wherever I see it.

Never before have I met somebody who has suffered as much as this individual in their life. Nobody should ever have to go through what this sensitive soul has had to go through. In addition to having PTSD, she suffers from depression, suicidal tendencies, extreme fatigue, helplessness, etc. Together, we both felt that we gave one another a burst of radiant energy, and it felt as if we were "at home" when around one another. Within two months, we have shared every single pain, woe, insecurity, anxiety, joy, dream, and failure with one another. We both loved one another even more because of all our "limitations," and we fell in love deeper and deeper each day as we never before have encountered another authentic person before romantically. Neither of us wore a mask, and it was true Unconditional Love.

When she drank, it was literally like the classic Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde scenario. She would fluctuate from being the total victim and the total dominator mentality as her rational brain was shut off because of the change in brain chemistry. Her reptile brain would take over as the command center of the brain and she would literally become demonic. Of course the next day she would apologize and say that she would never say or do anything like this sober and that she can't help it.

What's worse in her situation is that she is so shut off from society. Because of her deep mistrust with the medical system from them destroying her body with pharmaceutical drugs and from neglecting her situation, she has a vitriolic response from anybody who tries to help her. She only trusts herself and lashes out at anybody who tries to provide any sort of spiritual advice to her. Because of her hatred of society and deep level of awareness of conspiracies, she does not mingle in any social situation and she refuses to even communicate on online forums such as Avalon. She has become so conditioned from being abused, neglected, lied to, manipulated, etc. by society to the point where she refuses to listen to anybody but her own judgment.

Oh, how cruel society can be! I can deal with war, poverty, and just about anything else this sick society throws at us, but how tragic it is to have romantic love between souls on this planet be so utterly fractured due to societal pressure. A man and a woman (or other relationship scenarios) loving one another in beautiful harmony is a powerful healer, and it is the biggest travesty in the world to make such a union broken and scattered.

Robin

p.s. Many of you may be wondering why I used the word "Mind-control" in this thread's title. I may elucidate on this point in my next point, as it is necessary to understand how Dark Occultists have created alcoholism as a mind-control methodology on humanity. It is a sad reality, and unfortunately, I know a whole lot about it.

[Robin]

Deleted....

[Mike]

Wow, I was totally blown away by your post Grip. I read it 3 times. Awesome. That's all I can say. Awesome. Tons of respect for that type of honesty.

[Bubu]

A drowning person needs a life raft. She will tell you that you mirror each other and that you are soul mate. Once she has your heart she becomes herself to you. It seems to me that abused person has a tendency to abuse others as well. My girl is also a victim of abuse. And I honestly wanted to help her, save her from drowning. But I have come to terms I am not the superman who can save her. Being with her makes me a lesser person, Losing my self confidence my mind. If being with her makes me a better person I would have choose to stay with her because eventually I will become the superman who can save her. But that's not the case so I went away and use the experience to make me a better person. With the patience understanding and the depth of love I accorded her as an inspiration that I can redirect to others. My songs are still filled with her memories and I still wanted to help her on the other side I am sure I don't want to be with her because it makes me a lesser person. Hope this helps

[IChingUChing]

My first post on the forum!

Just wanted to second what Greybeard has been writing.

Firstly as Robin has been in a relationship with an alcolohic, the Alanon fellowship is a fantastic place to find support and speak directly to others about how they dealt with themselves in relation to their relationship to an alcoholic. Just search the web for an alanon group in your area. Visit a meeting - it only takes an hour and usually the place is full of love and laughter at having found a solution.

As for the alcoholic, it is my experience too, that they have to reach a rock bottom in order to being willing and to have a desire to change. Therapy didn't work for me and most therapists who know someone is an alcoholic will recommend the person goes to AA and gets sober before doing any therapy.

For those interested to understand AA, even if you're not an alcolohic, there are open AA meetings that anyone interested can go to. Go along and see what its all about. Experience will help where words can maybe only confuse!

There are no authority figures in AA. It works on the principle of the upside down triangle. It is the individual members (but of course "member" is just a term to use for those going to meetings; there are no membership records or anything like that) of the meeting who have all the authority equally. Those who are servicing the others at meetings in service positions within the fellowship go further and further down the triangle towards the peak which is at the very bottom! So the higher up the service structure you go, the less "authority" you have, if you like :-)

Anyway, to keep it simple, AA works on the very simple principle of attraction rather than promotion. In the meetings, those who have been through the 12 steps and as a result are sober and usually leading happy, healthy, fulfilling lives are attractive to the newcomers who are pretty literally coming out of hell. This is all the authority that is needed - the experience that they were in hell themselves and were freely shown a solution by someone else who had been in hell and had also been shown the solution by someone else who had been in hell and had also been shown the solution....... ad infinitum, this is the unbroken chain of AA. This is the wonderful thing here - this is each person freely passing on to the next what was freely given to them - it is love in action.

Unfortunately the suffering alcoholic has to want the solution in order for them to be prepared to put in the action but as soon as they do, doors will open that previously appeared shut and many people will be willing to help in all possible manners, day or night, with no strings attached, no demand for payment or otherwise.

I hope your friend reaches that point of being sick and tired of being sick and tired and reaches out for help. Then the grace of the cosmos can reach in and help in unimaginable ways:heart:

[greybeard]

Thank you IChingUChing
you are more articulate that I
You have put it so well.
Great first post.
Welcome to Avalon

With love
Chris

[Selkie]

I said that it seems to me that this girl needs more than A.A.

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?81272-Alcoholism-Love-and-Mind-control&p=949397&viewfull=1#post949397

A.A. might help her stop drinking, but it seems to me that she also needs professional help to help her deal with all the abuse she has suffered. She started drinking because of the abuse. She has a long history of abuse and neglect, probably starting more or less at birth. A.A. might be a therapy for alcoholism, but it is not a therapy for child abuse.

Alcohol raises the levels of an GABA (gamma amino butyric acid)...a naturally occurring, calming, sedating amino acid...in the brain

http://www.gammaaminobutyricacid.org/

When I was in Spain, I was suffering from non-stop panic attacks from being abused, and I drank like a fish. When I got back to the States and got ahold of a therapist, he told me that I have PTSD. Again, from all the abuse. They say that alcoholics drink to "drown their sorrows", but knowing that alcohol raises the levels of GABA in brain, and based on my own experience, I say that alcoholics drink to ease their anxiety. In my experience, GABA works wonderfully to quell panic attacks and lessen the symptoms of PTSD.

So if this girl won't try A.A., and/or can't or won't seek therapy, maybe she would be willing to try GABA:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16952998

It can't hurt, and it might help.

[OBwan]

Robin,

• Has anyone else been involved in a loving relationship with somebody who is an alcoholic? Yes
• How are you able to cope with alcoholism? Healing and Spirituality
• Do you feel bad for abandoning alcoholics to their own device? No

In summary; Been There, Done That, Got the T-Shirt and the Coffee Mug.

Alcoholism has case cost much in my life. Things like my childhood, my marriage, retirement plan can be directly attributed to alcoholism.

Alcoholism has been the biggest asset in my life. Making a commitment to ending alcoholism in my generation has taken my life to healing experiences that I never dreamed were possible. In other words, the alcoholic were an asset for they showed my children exactly how NOT to live their lives. My children are not living with the hell of alcoholism

My life’s path after committing to ending the alcoholism lead me on a spiritual/healing path in which miracles occurred in my life. One of the most valuable lesson was learning that if you get your button pushed, it is because you have a button. If you remove/transmute the fear associated with the button your life becomes more loving.

Alcoholism has made me a more loving person by the path of living non-judgment in as many moments as possible. More loving and less judgmental has made me physical heather and at peace with my life.

The things that an alcoholic put into their mouth and the things that come out in the form of abusive words, are a choice. Many times the alcohol is used to medicate the fearful feelings and the abusive words that come out are a result of fear.

Clearing the fear has been the source of miracles in my life. If fearful feelings come up when you think about abandoning the alcoholic, this would be a place to start the healing in my opinion. Once that fear is no longer part of your life, you can then make an object decision on how to move forward. Decisions made without fear are healthy decisions based upon my experience.

If you choose to follow the suggestion, the following link will point you to a process that will allow you to remove fearful feelings from your life.

Be In Peace,
OBwan

How to Remove Fearful Feeling from Past Memories

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?76245-How-to-Remove-Fearful-Feeling-from-Past-Memories&p=891906#post891906

[pyrangello]

Yeah, been down this road, father, grandfather, brother and I monitor myself quite a bit. Had a great aunt who drank a pint of kesslers whiskey and smoked camel cigarettes everyday for 45 years. Lived into her 80's . Use to watch my brother drink 12 ounces of whiskey and chase it with 12 ounces of pop then bang, he would stand up and fall over when it hit him. My father never really seemed drunk but he would drink sometimes 40 cans of beer a day, and he was a great guy . Did have a girlfriend one time who i deeply loved, things were great in the beginning but whenever she would drink there was an evil entity that would take over and one time she was so plowed at 11 am I ended up taking her to the hospital only to be told she was drunk and I hadn't seen her drink not one drink at all. When I came back to the hospital she was sitting in the lobby as she must have sobered up enough and was sitting there crying. The spooky part was she didn't have any idea what happened in the last 4 hours and she was totally awake and talking. But let me tell you when she was looking at you that wasn't her, it was something pure evil. Oh the experiences. I try and stick to the nice wines now and much less of it, seems much safer for me.

And my old girlfriend is still a closet alchoholic and never owned up to me what she drank that day although when I found a bunch of shooter mini bottles of liquor in her purse one time that spilled over is when I made the connection and everything fell into place. I offered to stop drinking entirely if she would, no go on that one either. The booze won.

[Selkie]

My father was a drunk. He used to drive drunk with my sister and I in the car. We knew he was drunk, but when you are just a little kid, there is nothing you can do about it. You can't even refuse to get in the car until you are older. Not fun.

[Iloveyou]

Hi Robin, I very much appreciate your openness and honesty. You asked to share our experiences with alcoholism in family or loving relationships. What came to my mind immediately is not particularly about that, so I first decided not to reply to you, but now I will. Did you think of getting a psychic reading with the focus on former lives that you shared with the girl you love? Maybe (or rather most probably) you both share a long common history through many lives. Knowing about that might help to understand why you met now under those circumstances, looking at this wider picture of your relationship might help to make a decision in the long run, maybe it could help a tiny bit to go through a time of great sorrow. Love, g.

[Selkie]

One thing I have been wanting to mention is that couples should never act as therapists, one to the other. Its just a bad scene all around when that happens.

[Robin]

Did you think of getting a psychic reading with the focus on former lives that you shared with the girl you love? Maybe (or rather most probably) you both share a long common history through many lives. Knowing about that might help to understand why you met now under those circumstances, looking at this wider picture of your relationship might help to make a decision in the long run, maybe it could help a tiny bit to go through a time of great sorrow. Love, g.

Hello! Thanks for the advice! Well I think her stubbornness will not allow any spiritual advise from me or outside sources. She is adamant that all people who give out spiritual advise are liars, deceivers, and New Age con artists. She feels that she is in full control of her life at all times and nobody can provide any insight on how she should live it. It is the worst mindset for an alcoholic to be in.

[Robin]

For those interested to understand AA, even if you're not an alcolohic, there are open AA meetings that anyone interested can go to. Go along and see what its all about. Experience will help where words can maybe only confuse!

This is a difficult situation. Firstly, I know that she is reading this thread from her own computer, so hopefully you all could help me encourage her to stop being so stubborn!

She is as awake and aware as any of us on Avalon, and she is more spiritually aware than the majority of people on this whole planet. She is also an E.T. soul, so overall she just does not feel comfortable socializing with the average person. Because of this, she has developed a large distaste for mingling with people of this world who are clueless to conspiracies. She despises small talk, which she calls "mindless banter."

She will never want to go to AA because she simply sees herself as "above" any other person who is still asleep to what is going on with the world. She just cannot take anybody seriously unless they are aware of conspiracies. It doesn't matter how nice people can be, because she would rather spend all of her free time alone than to have to mingle with "dumbed down" sheeple. Her stubbornness is eating away at her and she doesn't even realize it.

Also, what makes it worse is that she lives with her mother, who is a functioning alcoholic. She is not stable financially, and her mother more or less keeps her pent up in her house with alcohol everywhere. Her mother has no idea that she herself is an alcoholic, and she verbally abuses her all the time. She is literally living in the worst situation possible for her current health, but she is stuck. She doesn't have any friends or family to turn to.

The best thing for her to do is to get away from this house and her mother, but it is not easy to do. She needs to find the motivation to save money and leave, and she needs to find the courage to reach out to others, even if they are "mindless sheeple."

She doesn't seem to understand that me wanting to help her is my way of showing her how much I love and care about her.

Robin

[Flash]

Join Alanon is my suggestion.
That is for the partners, friends of sober or performing alcoholics .
It has the same twelve step program.
There are but a few who cam understand an alcoholic other than another alcoholic.
Thats why AA works
I know.
One day at a time.
Chris

Chris, i have a strange problem right now with someone whose already fragile mind gets worst when consuming alcool and that person is consuming regularly, every 3-4 days, half a bttlr of wine to one bottle at most at a time

I first thought her problem was mostle a mental health fragility. But now I wonder if an underlying alcoolism could not be a big trigger of her weird behaviors.

So my question is: when abd do you know if someone is alcoholic?

And, if ever possible to answer, the following question: how can we differentiate between alcoolism impact on the mind and other mental illness?

Thanks for any answer or wisdom you may have.

[greybeard]

Hi Flash
There is no medical test that can diagnose alcoholism.
In AA it is up to the newcomer making up their own mind after hearing people share their life experience before recovery in AA and present situation.
No one in AA will ever say that you are an alcoholic every step is a suggestion--no one tells you what to do--they just share what worked for them elves.
There are leaflets from AA and therefore probably on line which give indicators.

There is not a standard alcoholic except that their lives had become unmanageable is the entry point---that may be obvious to every one but the one.
drinking.
Some drink large amounts other not really that much, but there is always a change in character.
Some binge drink--they only hit it heavy at the weekend or even longer dry intervals.

Sorry I cant be of more help Flash

With love
Chris

[greybeard]

There is a saying in AA "My hell is worse than any one else’s------ because it happened to me"
Because alcoholism is a mental illness the mind can do gymnastics.
Ive seen me go through hell being sick and then the tremors/shakes drying out---then a few days later convincing myself that it want that bad and one would not hurt me---only after one the though was, well that's fine no problem, I can handle another one. this repeated over and over---a problem who me!!!

After I was sober some time I wondered if there was a faster way than AA---I qualified at St Anne's Hospital London as a hypnotherapist and Psychotherapist. It soon became clear that though therapy is beneficial the Twelve steps of AA actually did a complete house cleaning and removed every reason for drinking that lay in the past.
AA would not have the success rate it has without it tackling the underlying causes.

Alcoholism is accepted by the medical profession as an illness---excessive drinking is a symptom of the illness rather than the cause, many are the heavy drinkers who are not alcoholics.
Having heard many share there is one thing in common---every AA member shared that they had a change of character with their very first drink.
I suspect that I was born an Alcoholic ---the change in me was dramatic wit that first drink--just a half pint of lager---a shy boy of 15 was all of a sudden gods gift to women--I was up dancing doing all the things I had ever wanted to do.

Having the problem is no sin when you don't know you have it--- its a shame when you find out and don't do anything about it.
Alcoholism is a family illness in that it impacts on everyone that the alcoholic interacts with.

Sobriety has brought me more than I could have ever hoped for---I thought getting sober would limit me---how wrong was that!!!!
Quite the reverse, it freed me up to do so many things.

Hope this is helpful to anyone reading it.

With love
Chris

[Selkie]

There is a saying in AA "My hell is worse than any one else’s------ because it happened to me"
Because alcoholism is a mental illness the mind can do gymnastics.
Ive seen me go through hell being sick and then the tremors/shakes drying out---then a few days later convincing myself that it want that bad and one would not hurt me---only after one the though was, well that's fine no problem, I can handle another one. this repeated over and over---a problem who me!!!

After I was sober some time I wondered if there was a faster way than AA---I qualified at St Anne's Hospital London as a hypnotherapist and Psychotherapist. It soon became clear that though therapy is beneficial the Twelve steps of AA actually did a complete house cleaning and removed every reason for drinking that lay in the past.
AA would not have the success rate it has without it tackling the underlying causes.

Alcoholism is accepted by the medical profession as an illness---excessive drinking is a symptom of the illness rather than the cause, many are the heavy drinkers who are not alcoholics.
Having heard many share there is one thing in common---every AA member shared that they had a change of character with their very first drink.
I suspect that I was born an Alcoholic ---the change in me was dramatic wit that first drink--just a half pint of lager---a shy boy of 15 was all of a sudden gods gift to women--I was up dancing doing all the things I had ever wanted to do.

Having the problem is no sin when you don't know you have it--- its a shame when you find out and don't do anything about it.
Alcoholism is a family illness in that it impacts on everyone that the alcoholic interacts with.

Sobriety has brought me more than I could have ever hoped for---I thought getting sober would limit me---how wrong was that!!!!
Quite the reverse, it freed me up to do so many things.

Hope this is helpful to anyone reading it.

With love
Chris

This was very helpful to me, Greybeard. My father started drinking when I was 6 years old. He went away to a training school for the summer and started drinking while he was there. When he came back, he was like a different person, so it was like my father left and never really came back. So I know what you mean when you say that your character changed.

The reason I am having a hard time believing that AA could be that helpful to someone who has been so badly abused is that someone I know went to CoDA meetings for years (or at least says he did), but to my mind, they did not help him at all. He is not an alcoholic, but I am skeptical about self-help groups since knowing this person.

I should add that I went to AlAnon meeting for awhile, because I am the child of an alcoholic, but I don't think the chapter here is a good one.

[Rich]

She doesn't seem to understand that me wanting to help her is my way of showing her how much I love and care about her.


If you try to change her she may see it as a sign that you don't love her.
The self destructive behavior is due to belief that hurts her more than her behavior does.

[Robin]

It is very apparent to me that her spiritual isolation is not doing her any good. She recently communicated to me how she sometimes falls asleep while seeing sacred geometry hallucinations, which she passed off as a sign of spiritual transcendence. What she doesn't understand is that hallucinations are a heavy symptom of heavy drinking that changes brain chemistry.

She also communicated to me how she can feel her organs hurting, which she passes off as part of her auto-immune disease. Although this may be true, it is clear that the alcohol she is taking into her body is exacerbating the problem and causing her organs to become weaker. I'm genuinely worried about her health, but the last thing she will ever do would be to seek medical attention out of a distaste for the corruption of modern medical practices. She would rather die than seek medical attention or spiritual advise from "dumbed-down sheeple" in any alcohol support group.

So what can one do? It is difficult sitting back knowing this person has no friends or family to turn to. I have always been a stable drinker with a lot of self-control. But after going through this experience, the thought of even drinking one beer makes me sick. My interest in drinking any form of alcohol has been ruined and I honestly do not ever want to be around alcohol again.

What people need to understand is that alcohol changes brain chemistry and causes the components of the brain to become imbalanced so the brain does not function properly. It shifts the level of control between the Reptile brain and the Mammalian brain, causing a shift in behavior that fluctuates between dominance and victim mentality. It bypasses the human brain (neo-cortex), causing the alcoholic to become wired to the ego. It is a form of mind-control that Dark Occultists have taken advantage of, and which is why alcohol is legal and why other drugs are not. I may go into detail about this later, or I may start a new thread.

[greybeard]

I would say that recovering alcoholics that I have met in AA are more clear headed and aware of what goes on in the world than most.

Where I live there are five different meeting places and of course some attracted me more than others--different levels of understanding.
Some are two step people who get sober and then help others but are not that interested in developing spiritually or meditation.
Different strokes for different folks--whatever works for the individual.
Alanon probably the same.

Im not a great advocate of self help groups because its too easy to get into strong identification with ones illness/problem.
Who am I without my story?--so to speak.
The story defines one from an ego point of view.

AA, to its credit, is different in that it entails surrender of will to a Power Greater than one self
The self will keeps one thinking "I can control this"---I found I couldn’t, but I had to go through my own hell to realise this.
Alcoholism is a progressive disease, I enjoyed the early stages of my drinking immensely, and then!!! .
It was like getting a loan---it seemed to help me get over shyness and lots of other things and then the loan had to be repaid with interest.
Eventually I had to have a drink first thing in the morning to get rid of the shakes and then top up all day, not having drink to hand seemed to be my worst nightmare.
Took about eight years of a process of seeming normal drinking--to heavy--to full blown alcoholic behaviour.

The Twelve steps are about clearing the debris from ones life-- helping one to function reasonably normal inspite of everything that life throws up.
There is a realisation that no matter what the challenge taking a drink is not going to improve the situation --quite the contrary-- taking a drink renders one incapable of taking appropriate action. Im saying this in the context of alcoholism.
Perspective changes in that the belief that there is an enemy out there eventually goes--for some but not all--depends how far the person goes in the recovery process. Spiritual evolution frees one from fear as there is the realisation that one is not the body, ones thoughts, or life story. These come and go. Self is consistent and eternal---always awareness.
When this is realised true freedom occurs regardless of situation or others.
The French have a saying "Hell is the other" that may be so.

I have not shared this on line ever but it may help some one so I have.

Through the grace of the God of my understanding I am sober one day at a time.

With love
Chris

[GloriousPoetry]

Robin,

Alcoholism is an addiction.....an allergy of the body and an obsession of the mind....and it is an extremely powerful presentation of the emotional body controlling everything. My younger sister fell into alcoholism a few years ago and 3 years ago our family had to put a restraining order against her because she was out of control despite the attempts we made to get her into rehab. None of us have seen or talked to her since.....things got very ugly.

Good for you for walking away....you don't want to become codependent and stay in this toxic relationship because you will be eaten alive emotionally and mentally.

Even if she is your soulmate right now at this present moment she is not ready to love herself or you so the best thing for both of you is to go your separate ways.

Whatever you do do not allow her to manipulate you in anyway......my sister got really good at manipulating everyone.

It's normal to feel bad for the person who falls into this disease but it's healthier for you to walk away if she is not interested in rehab.

My best wishes to you and move on with your life as difficult as it may seem right now but as time goes on you will know that it was the right decision.

Many Blessings,
Gloria

[Robin]

Thank you for sharing your story, Chris! It definitely takes a lot of courage to open oneself up and recall one's dark history, and then to share it with others. I especially like the idea of opening one's self up to a higher power, and understanding that surrendering to this higher power (however one interprets it) is a healthy thing to do. When Johnny Cash hit rock bottom he crawled deep into a cave so he could lay down and die. After laying down for a while in total isolation in complete darkness, he felt the call of "God" and realized that this force had more plans for him in life. He found the strength to crawl out of the cave, and after stumbling around in pitch black feeling for the breeze, he miraculously crawled out and entered himself into rehab.

When he made his way to the entrance of the cave, June Carter (his soulmate) and his mother were standing outside with a picnic basket to offer him love and support. How they knew he was there is miraculous in and of itself. But they both were willing to give him love and support knowing that he really did want to get healthy for himself.

Thank you for your comment, Gloria. It is nice to know that others on Avalon have been in situations where they were impacted by alcoholics. They say that co-dependents and enablers are alcoholics themselves, because they indirectly allow alcohol to manipulate them into helping the alcoholic friend/relative into continuing their destructive behavior. I find it is important to understand that we do not CREATE this problem, we cannot CONTROL it, and we cannot CURE it. That is in the hands of the alcoholic and their interpretation of God.

As I write this, I'm still receiving emails from my soulmate, and she continues to read this thread. She is angry and thinks everybody who posts here are cold and mean. She continues to think I'm abandoning her and that I need to continue to offer her love, but I know better. Until she recognizes that this problem is out of her control and that she cannot beat it with will power alone, and until she makes the sincere recognition that she needs to stop drinking, I cannot talk to her. I will give her my love and support, but she has to meet me half way. Actions speak louder than words, as they say.

[greybeard]

Robin the positive thing is that through the experience along with other AA members I was able to help bring sobriety to the lives of quite a few.
Could say I made a difference--- If I had not the humility to ask for help then that would not have happened and the way things were going I doubt if I would have seen my thirtieth birthday.
My youngest son is getting married in July and I am very welcome to be present.

Every person that has contribute to this thread, as far as I can see, is coming from a place of concern for your friend.

I would not wish Alcoholism on anyone--that's why I have opened up --why else would I?
Im sure some one will benefit from this thread if not now then later when the need to get sober over rules the need to drink.

Incidentally there were a series of "coincidences" that got me into an AA. I had no intention what so ever of going-- even though life was hell.

With love
Chris

[araucaria]

She is as awake and aware as any of us (…)
She will never want to go to AA because she simply sees herself as "above" any other person who is still asleep to what is going on with the world. She just cannot take anybody seriously unless they are aware of conspiracies. It doesn't matter how nice people can be, because she would rather spend all of her free time alone than to have to mingle with "dumbed down" sheeple.

Whoa, a big contradiction right there. I don’t think I’d be alone in saying that this falls a little short of enlightenment, if only because we all fall short of enlightenment, i.e. we are all to some notable degree "dumbed down" sheeple. Some dumb sheeple might not be too keen to mingle with dumb alcoholics (or other kinds of dummies); it takes some extra awareness to do that. Mingling is the name of the game around here.


Some times "Tough love" is required.
Performing alcoholics tend not to seek help till they hit rock bottom.
While a person is still drinking therapy cant help as the real person is not there.
Until AA came along you died from Alcoholism.
The founder Bill W. tried all forms of help even visited Carl Jung who said "Even my science and my art can not help you."
Bill W had a spiritual awakening and AA was born.
AA twelve step program is a therapy.
Having spent some time on the program I can say there are no hopeless cases, every sober Alcoholic is a walking miracle, as long as the person practises the 12 steps sobriety is guaranteed.
There is only one problem--the person is addicted to alchol---when the person begins to recover life becomes very manageable and even the hard times are coped with.

http://www.aa.org.au/members/twelve-steps.php

With love
Chris

Here is a totally different area where ‘echoes of the 12-step programme’ are having a positive effect: in Glasgow, where the murder rate has been halved.
http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2015/apr/06/glasgow-murder-rate-knife-gang-crime-police

[Selkie]

Whoa, a big contradiction right there. I don’t think I’d be alone in saying that this falls a little short of enlightenment, if only because we all fall short of enlightenment, i.e. we are all to some notable degree "dumbed down" sheeple. Some dumb sheeple might not be too keen to mingle with dumb alcoholics (or other kinds of dummies); it takes some extra awareness to do that. Mingling is the name of the game around here.
Yes, we all have multiple blind spots, especially about ourselves.

[3(C)+me]

Well here's the deal. I had a friend who was very awake, she knew all about the cabal, mind control, she knew what was up but she had some early trauma in her life that she would allude to me from time to time. She really didn't like talking about it. I loved our conversations and it was such relief to have someone I could talk to about these things. She started smoking early, then she had some physical issues. She got on some big pharma pain medications after an accident which she felt she needed and one day about 3 years ago she was found dead. And here's the thing, she knew about big pharma and nano technology and all the things this medication had in it that was not good for her. She had some pharma drugs on her nightstand. I was devastated. I just spoke to her on the phone not a week ago. She was told many times by others to stop smoking and stop drinking and stop the drugs but she was stubborn. We would always talk about the times we were in and how important they were but she just couldn't get out of the hole she was in, I guess she felt it was too late to change her lifestyle. It didn't seem she had the desire to really or the discipline. I just thought people are awake that that would iron some of their issues but it's not so. Another belief of mine smashed.

[rgray222]

Robin, after many years of self destructive behavior, drinking and I do mean many years, I quit. I had to accept some truths before I was able to quit. Denying these truths only prolongs the pain and the suffering.

Alcoholism is a progressive disease
What happened in the past is in the past, start living for the future
The last drink does not get you drunk it is the first drink
The end result of alcoholism is death
We have all heard the saying that you cannot solve a problem until you admit you have a problem but it needed to be said (at least for me) differently. Intellectually understanding that you have a problem does no good unless you have the courage and love for yourself and others to act on that understanding.

I wish your friend well.
R

[Robin]

There are many people who fall to alcoholism and do not live to tell the tale of recovery. One of the most recent examples of somebody well known is Robin Williams. Robin was very beloved to me, though I never had the pleasure of meeting him in person. When he passed away from suicide last year, I was devastated. He was one of the many reasons why I changed by name to Robin a few years ago, because I resonated with his frequency. I saw in him a beautiful soul who found great joy in comedy to cope with a troubling world. Even though he projected an image of happiness, I always sensed a deep inner struggle that he constantly faced...a dark side.

There is no doubt that his alcoholism was the fuel for his depression which led to his demise. Robin was a sensitive soul who was greatly influenced by the troubles of society in his life. All he wanted was for everyone to be happy and to love one another, and his fragile soul turned to alcohol to quench the pain he was feeling. My friend is also an extremely sensitive soul, and it saddens me to see how such a society can drive an incarnated soul to melancholy.

I'd hate to see this happen to my friend, and it devastates me to see her struggling so much. I wish there was something that I could do, but she perceives everything I say to her as an attack. All I can do is take a step back and leave her in the hands of her own inner strength and the will of the Creator.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5BXQoA3CFug

[Poly Hedra]

Hi Robin, alcoholism is such a shameful disease and I even feel quite exposed writing what I'm about to write but I feel like it is genuine, like you mentioned.

I grew up with a functioning alcoholic, my father. As a child he would spend the bill money on drink, at night I would wake up to loud scary fights with my mum where I would hear thumps and shouts. When they eventually separated my dad would bring us on days out. In reality it was a tour of bars in the countryside and him driving drunk with the two of us in the back, he would drive really slowly so as not to crash I guess.
Or else I would spend all day in my dads local, annoying the regulars (because I was a bored kid) and I eventually became friends with the kids of the bar owner whos family lived over the pub.

My mother fell for my father - her father was an alcoholic who used to beat her, he eventually got sober and became a staunch pioneer (catholic stay sober pin and promise to never drink again) and was sober by the time I was a kid and hated alcohol.
Growing up with an functioning alcoholic father meant that I had no school books, not enough food, not enough clothes to wear. I was left to my own devices while I lived with him. I eventually left at age 16 because I spent money that wasnt mine to spend on food.
He was a nasty drunk too, he would say the most vile, nasty, hurtful things to me. That stuff stays with you but the drunk person forgets everything. It got to the stage where I wouldnt answer my phone after a certain time because I was sure it would be some horrible abusive conversation. The last time he did it I refused to speak to him unless he apologised, I didnt back down and he had to apologise to me for the first time in his life.
Now that he is older, he cant drink anymore because from drinking every day of his adult life, (a good 30 years) he now suffers from gout where he cant walk for days and he has diabetes, both from drink.
So he doesnt really drink anymore now, which in turn has made him a much nicer person to be around, I dont fear those late phonecalls or texts anymore, which means we actually have a relationship now.

My boyfriend drinks too much every now and again it becomes everyday for a week, he gets scared and stops and it becomes normal again. Obviously I'm repeating my mothers mistakes, falling for someone who likes to drink because its what you grow up with. He also says horrible crappy things to me when he's drunk, (I now record him on my mobile phone if I know he's gonna turn into a %^&%&^er, Then the next day I will play it back to him, I have recorded him on video and played it back for him the next day, works a treat because they then have to confront the reality while sober. It has made a difference in that it has greatly reduced his drinking to the point now where he just likes to drink. The embarrassment and shame and cold hard video/audio seems to work for him.

At least I hate drink and have not had to suffer that side. But living with damaging effects fo alcohol throughout my life, you love who you love.
Stay strong within yourself.

My question is this....do you really have to be romantically involved with this woman? Can you be her friend first and refuse to be around her when she is drinking/drunk. You could just be her friend for now.

Sending you strength, and to you lady reading this. I have also been effed around, the only person who can help you is you. The buck stops with you.

[rgray222]

My boyfriend drinks too much every now and again it becomes everyday for a week, he gets scared and stops and it becomes normal again. Obviously I'm repeating my mothers mistakes, falling for a drunk because its what you grow up with.


It is not uncommon for the children of alcoholics to marry or be in relationships with alcoholics. The chaos of ones early family life becomes the norm and when they become adults they search out the same lifestyle (same chaos). Sometimes we get so caught up in the turmoil of our everyday lives that we don't see what we are doing.

I did exactly this same thing and so did my spouse. Against all odds we made it through but it took a lot of pain, heartache, suffering and love. I would not wish the same experience on my worst enemy.

[Robin]

My question is this....do you really have to be romantically involved with this woman? Can you be her friend first and refuse to be around her when she is drinking/drunk. You could just be her friend for now.

Thank you for sharing this. To answer your question...only time will tell what will happen to our relationship. Whatever capacity she wants me in her life is totally up to her. I will continue to love her and care for her, but the one thing I cannot offer to her while she still drinks is my affection. It gets to the point where if I see that she drinks, and I kindly tell her that I wish to go do something else, she flips out. Even if she is being "nice" while drinking, she still makes me feel uncomfortable, and I have every right to walk away and do something else. But she flips out and tells me that I abandon her and she throws a barrage of insults at me for the next few days. So if I'm ever going to be a friend to her, it also is going to have to be a friendship that has no alcohol involved.

My question to you is...what do you do when your boyfriend drinks? Do you and your boyfriend have established boundaries?



I did exactly this same thing and so did my spouse. Against all odds we made it through but it took a lot of pain, heartache, suffering and love. I would not wish the same experience on my worst enemy.

Thanks for sharing your story, brother. How did you two work it out? How were you able to have alcohol part of your relationship? Did you set boundaries, such as only drinking when NOT around one another?

[Fairy Friend]

I do not wish to interrupt the flow of the discussion. But my sister was addicted to benzodiazepines like xanax through her doctor. It was no doing of her own. He nearly killed her repeatly. I was fortunate to cross paths with Dr. Joan Mathews Larson, PhD. who wrote a book "Seven weeks to sobriety". I believe it saved my sisters life at the time (around 1994/1995).

It is not an easy read but points out possible conditions that predispose you such as food allergies, hypoglycemia, Candida, Omega 6 deficiency, zinc or copper imbalances etc. or results of the alcohol use such as Tryptophan depletion.

I understand that Nutrition has been very much Dismissed but repairing the brain is not done the same way as repairing the rest of the body. One of her ideas was the fact that you have to access the blood/brain barrier, so you flood the body with 10,000 times the normal dosages of vitamins to get to the brain. The brain is capable of repairing the damage done if you give it what it needs to do so. (Not to be done long term).

It may not fix the issues that made you decide to take the drug or alcohol but what's wrong with Initially starting with repairing the neurotransmitters and their receptors that were damaged by the choice made. Good Luck to you

[Fairy Friend]

Sorry duplicated post deleted it. Good Luck to you both.

[earthdreamer]

It is a sorry situation for you, Robin Galdek, and your girlfriend is surely in a distressed state by her life's circumstances and alcohol over-consumption. I think you are a wise poster and she was (is) lucky to have your care and concern. She could gain valuable insight from your thread. It is so true that a person in the grips of alcoholism must want to change their own self and no one else has that power to change her. You are probably right to let go since you've experienced too much abusive behavior and have learned that you cannot tolerate her when she drinks. Perhaps you can be a spiritual friend to her during her sober moments unless she manipulates your romantic feelings with issues of guilt and abandonment. "greybeard" certainly has provided outstanding advise should she seek an AA program.

I have one small thing that stuck in my mind though that caused me to post. Your (Robin G.) statement: "She recently communicated to me how she sometimes falls asleep while seeing sacred geometry hallucinations, which she passed off as a sign of spiritual transcendence." While it is very true that too much alcohol will cause hallucinations, in my experience, seeing geometric visions is not necessarily in the domain of pure hallucination, tho it can be. I think anyone with conscious awareness can see these visions, particularly in darkened empty space as one drifts off to sleep. I think the very fabric of reality construction consists of geometric patterns and that people may perceive them sober or not. She may possibly inflate those visions and elevate their significance like delusions of grandeur. I hope that you would withhold judgment on this though, as it may not be a sign of craziness, but simply a perception of energetic reality composition. Perhaps overdosing on alcohol can distort brain chemistry which may in turn distort the visions, still the doors of perception are wide open to all who live and breathe.

Even since my short time here at Avalon (tho I lurked for months before and was aware of this forum for years by my husband's participation) I've noticed that this poster, "Robin Galdek" ,aka "Samwise the Brave" has generated respect among fellow posters here for his thoughtful, intelligent, and honest writing. So with that in mind, there is a lot of goodwill for him to be happy and healthy. That goodwill extends to your troubled woman and I hope she finds better ways to love and cherish herself.

[greybeard]

This is for Robins friend.

I know that you read this thread.
My heart goes out to you, I know it is not easy to take the first step to seek help.
I resisted and resisted--that was nearly the death of me, and yes that would have been very welcome at the time.
However one night in the depth of despair I prayed "If there is a God please help me"
Soon after that through a series of coincidences I found myself at an AA meeting.

The standard AA suggestion is that you try it for thirty days and if you don't want to go after that this is entirely up to you.
In AA there are only suggestions---people share what works for them.

No paid professionals and its free, (you can donate if you wish) only those who have gone through extremely difficult times and come out the other side.
The meetings tend to be filled with a bit of laughter though obviously there is the serious side.
Sober people enjoying life in freedom after many years a slave to the illness.

No one says an other is an alcoholic, it is anonymous, only first names are known.
Its up to the individual to decide they have a problem.
No forms to fill in, no questions.
You don't have to say anything, some don't for many meetings ,just sit and take it in. Afterwards there is tea or coffee if you wish.

There will most likely be day time meetings.

Its true that it helps to have a good environment--but many have got sober in difficult circumstances.

Circumstances tend to improve radically once sobriety begins to happen.

Many have gone from the depth of hell to having good jobs, homes of their own etc.
Dare to dream--so to speak.

People of all walks of life and beliefs.
Yes some will be interested in conspiracy theories and be well awake to what happens in the world, some not.

There are several I know to be sober alcoholics on this forum.

The future is in your hands.

Wishing you all the best.

Chris

[Selkie]

In the interest of completeness, I would like to add that some people maintain that AA is a cult

http://www.orange-papers.org/

p.s. to greybeard: I know that you credit AA with pretty much saving your life, and it is not my intent to take that away from you. It is just that this is the real world, and just like anything else, there are bound to be good chapters of AA and bad ones...and that some of them might even be very bad. I am not trying to be a contrarian. It is just that I am of the mind that people ought to have as much information as possible before deciding on a course of action.

[greybeard]

In the interest of completeness, I would like to add that some people maintain that AA is a cult

http://www.orange-papers.org/

p.s. to greybeard: I know that you credit AA with pretty much saving your life, and it is not my intent to take that away from you. It is just that this is the real world, and just like anything else, there are bound to be good chapters of AA and bad ones...and that some of them might even be very bad. I am not trying to be a contrarian. It is just that I am of the mind that people ought to have as much information as possible before deciding on a course of action.

Dear Sllkle
To be very accurate I will credit The God of my understanding/Higher Power for getting me to AA.
But then I did ask for help and what led me to ask I wonder.
And what prevent me from asking much earlier?

As far as cult goes, that's not my experience---I would think a cult requires a leader to set rules and regulations and if you don't adhere you are banished or worse.
The way AA is set up its impossible for anyone to lead it--even the founder who is deceased.
It is a fellowship
I have never heard of bad chapters on the grapevine.
Never heard the word chapter used re AA meetings
There may be meetings that suit one rather than another
Yes explore fully-- the information is freely available on the internet.

Chris

Like this http://www.aa.org/pages/en_US/twelve-steps-and-twelve-traditions

or this

Service Material from the General Service Office
THE
TWELVE
TRADITIONS
OF
ALCOHOLICS ANONYMOUS
(SHORT FORM)
1.
Our common welfare should come first; personal recovery depends upon
A.A. unity.
2.
For our group purpose there is but one ultimate authority
—
a loving God as
He may express Himself in our group conscience. Our leaders are but
trusted servants; they do not govern.
3.
The only requirement for A.A. membership is a desire to stop drinking.
4.
Each group should be autonomous except in matters affecting other groups
or A.A. as a whole.
5.
Each group has but one primary purpose
—
to carry its message to the
alcoholic who still suffers.
6.
An A.A. group ought never endorse, finance, or lend the A.A. name to any
related facility or outside enterprise, lest problems of money, property, and
prestige divert us from our primary purpose.
7.
Every A.A. group ought to be fully self-supporting, declining outside
contributions.
8.
Alcoholics Anonymous should remain forever nonprofessional, but our service centers may employ special workers.
9.
A.A., as such, ought never be organized; but we may create service boards
or committees directly responsible to those they serve.
10.
Alcoholics Anonymous has no opinion on outside issues; hence the A.A.
name ought never be drawn into public controversy.
11.
Our public relations policy is based on attraction rather than promotion; we
need always maintain personal anonymity at the level of press, radio, and
films.
12.
Anonymity is the spiritual foundation of all our Traditions, ever reminding us
to place principles before personalities.
Copyright

1952, 19
53, 1981 by
A.A. Grapevine,
Inc. and Alcoholics Anonymous Publishing
(now known as Alcoholics Anonymous World Services, Inc.)
All rights reserved.
Rev.
10
/14
SM
F
-
122

[Selkie]

In the interest of completeness, I would like to add that some people maintain that AA is a cult

http://www.orange-papers.org/

p.s. to greybeard: I know that you credit AA with pretty much saving your life, and it is not my intent to take that away from you. It is just that this is the real world, and just like anything else, there are bound to be good chapters of AA and bad ones...and that some of them might even be very bad. I am not trying to be a contrarian. It is just that I am of the mind that people ought to have as much information as possible before deciding on a course of action.

Dear Sllkle
To be very accurate I will credit The God of my understanding/Higher Power for getting me to AA.
But then I did ask for help and what led me to ask I wonder.
And what prevent me from asking much earlier?

As far as cult goes, that's not my experience---I would think a cult requires a leader to set rules and regulations and if you don't adhere you are banished or worse.
The way AA is set up its impossible for anyone to lead it--even the founder who is deceased.
It is a fellowship
I have never heard of bad chapters on the grapevine.
Never heard the word chapter used re AA meetings
There may be meetings that suit one rather than another
Yes explore fully-- the information is freely available on the internet.

Chris

Like this http://www.aa.org/pages/en_US/twelve-steps-and-twelve-traditions

or this

Service Material from the General Service Office
THE
TWELVE
TRADITIONS
OF
ALCOHOLICS ANONYMOUS
(SHORT FORM)
1.
Our common welfare should come first; personal recovery depends upon
A.A. unity.
2.
For our group purpose there is but one ultimate authority
—
a loving God as
He may express Himself in our group conscience. Our leaders are but
trusted servants; they do not govern.
3.
The only requirement for A.A. membership is a desire to stop drinking.
4.
Each group should be autonomous except in matters affecting other groups
or A.A. as a whole.
5.
Each group has but one primary purpose
—
to carry its message to the
alcoholic who still suffers.
6.
An A.A. group ought never endorse, finance, or lend the A.A. name to any
related facility or outside enterprise, lest problems of money, property, and
prestige divert us from our primary purpose.
7.
Every A.A. group ought to be fully self-supporting, declining outside
contributions.
8.
Alcoholics Anonymous should remain forever nonprofessional, but our service centers may employ special workers.
9.
A.A., as such, ought never be organized; but we may create service boards
or committees directly responsible to those they serve.
10.
Alcoholics Anonymous has no opinion on outside issues; hence the A.A.
name ought never be drawn into public controversy.
11.
Our public relations policy is based on attraction rather than promotion; we
need always maintain personal anonymity at the level of press, radio, and
films.
12.
Anonymity is the spiritual foundation of all our Traditions, ever reminding us
to place principles before personalities.
Copyright

1952, 19
53, 1981 by
A.A. Grapevine,
Inc. and Alcoholics Anonymous Publishing
(now known as Alcoholics Anonymous World Services, Inc.)
All rights reserved.
Rev.
10
/14
SM
F
-
122


To be very accurate I will credit The God of my understanding/Higher Power for getting me to AA...

To be sure, greybeard, and I have the utmost respect for that.


...But then I did ask for help and what led me to ask I wonder. And what prevent me from asking much earlier?

Maybe you were enjoying yourself too much before that?**


...I have never heard of bad chapters on the grapevine.
Never heard the word chapter used re AA meetings...

Well, then, perhaps I have increased your awareness of AA? :)

**I mean in the sense that there was something in it for you, because enjoyment is a very weird, un-straightforward thing.

an addition
...I would think a cult requires a leader to set rules and regulations

Any group can be taken over. AA ideals are there to guard against this, but it can happen, and people must not be blinded by AA ideals if they are facing a cult-like situation.

[greybeard]

Dear Sillkle
The enjoyment ceased many years prior to stopping during which I was hospitalised three times---suicidal wreck.

What kept me going was ego---refusal to admit i couldn’t control the drinking and the effect on me and others who loved me.
I got to AA roughly forty years ago, at that time AA had no been long in Scotland, or anywhere else for that matter and little was known of Alcoholism.

It was not seen as illness then but a down and out lack of control thing.
In other words being an Alki was the lowest of the low and sufferers of this looked down upon, un trusted, social outcasts--unemployable.
Who would want to admit to being an alcoholic or seek help with that stigma attached?
Thankfully things are now very different--- Drs here now suggest that people go to AA if they suspect there is a problem.

Some I know in AA hold positions where they handle responsibility with integrity and skill.
They deserve the jobs they have through their work attitude and ability.

I have to say only a recovering alcoholic can really know what this illness is.
You have to have been there, done it.
That's why AA is so successful with many millions of members world wide-- performing alcoholics tend not to listen to any other than a sober alcoholic.
Im only writing these posts hopefully for the benefit of Robins friend and anyone suffering from Alcoholism.

Best wishes
Chris

Ps no AA group has ever been taken over.

Bottom line is AA has saved millions from a terrible death.

[Selkie]

Ps no AA group has ever been taken over.
I wish I could believe this.


Bottom line is AA has saved millions from a terrible death.

This is indubitably true :)

[Robin]

update:

My lovely soulmate and I have benefited greatly from reading different points of view and we have come back together to discuss the relationship. We both agreed that we had bad communication and misunderstanding, and we are happy with our new level of understanding. Though she only binge drinks about three times a month, she recognizes and accepts that she is an alcoholic and that she has no control over her drinking. She accepts that she is powerless over alcohol, but her level of spirituality and maturity is definitely deep enough to sincerely want to stop drinking.

What she didn't tell me before was that she tried all sorts of treatment last year, and even tried attending an AA meeting before, much to her dissatisfaction. After realizing that no standard treatments were working for her individual being, she is working on her self-control and spirituality steadfastly. She recognizes how damaging alcohol is to herself and the relationship, which is a big leap in and of itself, and she sincerely does want to stop. We also both agreed that if she slips up again, that I have every right to record her and do whatever it takes to let her know how much her drinking hurt me. If she drinks again, I'm going to walk away until she's sober and confront her about her mistake.

The most important thing is that she understands how damaging her drinking is, and she is sympathetic and empathetic to my feelings. It hurts her to know that she hurts me, and this is the last thing that she wants to do. It is good to know that she does not suffer from total ego-domination like many other alcoholics.

Anyway, thank you for all of your sincere messages! She is doing great, and I'm confident in her ability to overcome this addiction. Love cannot heal the addiction itself, but it sure can help to mend the root causes of wanting to drink in the first place.

Cheers,
Robin

[Poly Hedra]

[QUOTE=Poly Hedra;950336]My question to you is...what do you do when your boyfriend drinks? Do you and your boyfriend have established boundaries?
.

Yes basically, he loves to DJ so he has a room where he goes to play records and have a few beers. He is basically not allowed to come out to the living room and chat to me while he's drunk and I'm sober, as we all know talking to a drunk person is bloody boring and I lose my patience. He gets annoyed and over-reacts and a lively debate becomes an arguement as a drunk person cant control this. (We like to banter and have great conversation and fun playing with words usually) So basically I refuse to chat to him or entertain any drunken conversation.

[Poly Hedra]

It is not uncommon for the children of alcoholics to marry or be in relationships with alcoholics. The chaos of ones early family life becomes the norm and when they become adults they search out the same lifestyle (same chaos). Sometimes we get so caught up in the turmoil of our everyday lives that we don't see what we are doing.


Yes but on the bright side its easy to spot the danger signs and when to get mad. Nothing gets past me. :)

[Joe Sustaire]

update:

My lovely soulmate and I have benefited greatly from reading different points of view and we have come back together to discuss the relationship. We both agreed that we had bad communication and misunderstanding, and we are happy with our new level of understanding. Though she only binge drinks about three times a month, she recognizes and accepts that she is an alcoholic and that she has no control over her drinking. She accepts that she is powerless over alcohol, but her level of spirituality and maturity is definitely deep enough to sincerely want to stop drinking.

What she didn't tell me before was that she tried all sorts of treatment last year, and even tried attending an AA meeting before, much to her dissatisfaction. After realizing that no standard treatments were working for her individual being, she is working on her self-control and spirituality steadfastly. She recognizes how damaging alcohol is to herself and the relationship, which is a big leap in and of itself, and she sincerely does want to stop. We also both agreed that if she slips up again, that I have every right to record her and do whatever it takes to let her know how much her drinking hurt me. If she drinks again, I'm going to walk away until she's sober and confront her about her mistake.

The most important thing is that she understands how damaging her drinking is, and she is sympathetic and empathetic to my feelings. It hurts her to know that she hurts me, and this is the last thing that she wants to do. It is good to know that she does not suffer from total ego-domination like many other alcoholics.

Anyway, thank you for all of your sincere messages! She is doing great, and I'm confident in her ability to overcome this addiction. Love cannot heal the addiction itself, but it sure can help to mend the root causes of wanting to drink in the first place.

Cheers,
Robin


Best of luck to you and your soulmate Robin!

I found my soulmate 44 years ago and it's been an incredible adventure. My thoughts are with you both.