MUST SEE: Electronic dead drops for when the internet goes down

[Bill Ryan]

Folks,

You absolutely have to see this.

A brilliant idea which solves a problem I had been worried about for a while.

In the espionage game, a 'dead drop' is where you drop a message (e.g. in a box in a hollow tree in a forest) - which is then picked up later by the person you want to communicate with.

This is the electronic equivalent. Data on a USB card or a stick (flash drive) is cemented into a wall. People can then come along anonymously at any time and freely download all the files that are there. Nothing goes through the net. It's a post-net-crash or post-CME way of re-seeding all lost electronic information.

Do spread this ingenious idea - and also actually take the steps suggested. (Like all such ideas, doing it is different from just thinking about it.)


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A3pKF6gREFw

[JoshERTW]

This is a pretty interesting idea - best to start seeding these things now eh? Maybe throw some articles or interviews from this site on there for curious people who find them. I can imagine a couple of problems though:

- Anyone can delete or add whatever they want (unless you password protect I suppose)
- If water gets into the end of it it might wreck the device
- Easy to vandalize if found
- In a place as public as the ones shown, you'd look pretty suspicious hooking up your laptop to a wall or pay-phone

I'd be willing to bet the locations shown in the video have definitely been shut down already though haha. Regardless, cool post, a very novel idea - anyone have any suggestions for an "improved" system?

[rosie]

Sadly, I can see people abusing these flashdrive dead drops. We will have another group of cyber bullies who will relish going around and infecting the drives with their own agenda's.

Bill, the old way is still the best way - pigeons, hollow trees, under rocks, anywhere that is safe from the weather, and prying eyes.

in love & light :wub:

[Rocky_Shorz]

don't forget to wrap it in a tin foil hat to protect from...

[John Parslow]

Hi Bill

Absolutely brilliant idea! I can see the flaws in it but a very good idea for information interchange off the Net. Data on a USB card or a stick is an excellent way to data-share. Could be an idea to save all our relevant data to these and they could be shared between say Avalon users by post or similar … not too sure how long they would survive sticking out of a brick wall though.

Best regards. JP

[Bill Ryan]

- Anyone can delete or add whatever they want (unless you password protect I suppose)


I believe (but am not sure... can anyone confirm?) that you can set up many flash drives for read-only permission. (That would then mean that files could not be deleted or changed.)

In an emergency situation, I'm not at all convinced that these would be quickly vandalized. They might be respected and valued by many as a critically important resource.

Now might not be the right time to cement these into walls and elsewhere. Safeguard critical data as routine back-up for yourself on large-capacity flash drives (and yes, do wrap them in tinfoil!) - and then, if and when it's ever needed, make them securely available for people to share and seed from.

[norman]

I can see this idea being developed a bit more than carrying laptops around and holding them up against walls!

What it requires is another small device that goes in the pocket and is male/female opposite of the USB device in the wall. It would require 2 buttons on it to activate a tiny operating system that would either upload or download.

For such a device to become common and cheap it would require a similar use in 'legit' land. That's a tought call. Any creative minds out there capable of dreaming up such a cool and useful legit activity that the big factories would churn out billions of them?

[MorningSong]

I agree! A Great Idea!

I already have about 30 giga on my personal "Prepare" and "Aftermath" Flash pens... my biggest hope is that I'll be able to retrieve the info when it will be needed (and yes, I have hard copies (paper copies or real books/docs) to most of the info).

[Celine]

Reminds me of Geocashing ...great way to teach us how to do this... Invent a game!!

[Ahkenaten]

Very excellent point Bill and thanks for this..................saving important information is especially critical when it comes to archived practical information that we need to survive............................and the "tinfoil" wrapping is essential. By the way a good way to secure personal flash drives of archives at home is in an old microwave oven with the electrical cord cut off at the base. The oven provides a shield against electromagnetic waves. Perhaps Avalonians could provide suggestions of basic important information that should be archived by everyone concerned just in case the inconceivable happens........................after all, to rebuild the culture and technology we now have would be a formidable, if not impossible task without all the basics.

[Bill Ryan]

A good way to secure personal flash drives of archives at home is in an old microwave oven with the electrical cord cut off at the base. The oven provides a shield against electromagnetic waves.

Yes, excellent advice. Backup drives, cellphones and laptops can easily be stored there routinely - simply get into the habit of using it as a desk drawer.

[Ahkenaten]

I always found it intriguing when Sitchin referred to the "MEs" - according to him some kind of computer disks the Annunaki stored information on used perhaps to replicate civilizations quickly. I interpreted this not as fact but a thinly-veiled allusion to the need for individuals to identify key information and archive it in case of sudden loss of communications/technology. If there were to be a massive solar flare, for example - causing the break-down of the electrical grid which is NOT hardened against such an occurrence, the repository of information held in individuals' hands could well be the metaphorical illuminated manuscripts held in the Irish Monastaries that, according to some, provided the underpinnings for the re-emergence of so-called Western Civilization after the Bubonic Plague devastated Europe. Just a thought.

¤=[Post Update]=¤

p.s. lest I state the obvious an old microwave also provides a secure shield for the paranoiacs concerned about constant 3-letter agency snooping and tracking via cell phones, IPod and blackberry devices. That and closed copper containers.

[Ilie Pandia]

There are short cables available that you could use, instead of hooking your laptop into the wall that may also damage the memory flash you do not keep the laptop steady.

As for data protection. There are hardware solutions. Some flashes have a read-only switch. Also software solutions. And here you can do pretty much whatever you want. You can implement mods, admins groups just as with Avalon. Not sure if there is a software already developed but if not it could be done fairly easy if the necessity arises. Not to mention that you can encrypt the data itself and only those that have inside knowledge of the password would be able to read it. (general password protection for a memory stick is already possible and I think you can use free software. most flashes come with a small CD that allow general password protection.)

The dead drop should not be in such obvious places... I am thinking toilets and areas that you would consider private and mostly out of sight, so you do not look crazy hooking cables into the wall. Also using a cable instead of the laptop to connect would allow you to hide the memory stick even further into the wall to protect it from rain. Maybe even put a lid on it. And I repeat: such cables are available today! (look for Wireless USB, most of them have such a cable.)

Another improvement would be a server running close by (in the locked basement, apartment or whatever) and then an access cable sticking out (in a not so obvious way). This will allow a much bigger data storage and better user control, but it depends on being powered by something. Also hidden cables buried completely into walls could lead to a remote administration site. I think some of the ISPs already do something similar with their servers :)

Shutting down the networks within a city is next to impossible. Inter-continental or even inter-country communication would be more difficult to achieve if the net link is severed, though.

[sjkted]

I think wireless P2P could be another one. This is kind of like the old BBS style system. In the old days, you often had to upload files in order to download. A lot of times new users would chat with the sysop (system operator) to see what files they need and then upload first and then download. We could all meet at a particular location for a P2P meet and then trade files over WiFi. There could be different groups like music, movies, conspiracy files, etc. It might even be fun as people would get to meet in person instead of talking behind the computer.

--sjkted

[Ilie Pandia]

To my knowledge WiFi devices are very difficult to hide and if I understand corectly a dead drop should be secret. Also a third party can spy on you.

[sjkted]

I suppose there's some pros and cons for both. For example, putting a dead drop in a public place would allow the person using it subject to being videotaped. I do like the idea of a toilet drop, although I imagine that one would need to do two drops: one for the women and another for the men :-)

If you could get power to the unit, it wouldn't be too hard to set up a wireless drop (either Bluetooth or WiFi) where you just need to be within a certain proximity to access it. The WiFi would only give off the MAC address of your computer/device which could be spoofed or hacked for privacy reasons. In addition, a WiFi/Bluetooth drop could have the benefit of a bit of anonymity (i.e. stopping the car for a few minutes, connecting to the network behind tinted windows and then driving on.) It would not attract the attention of local passersby or security camera, and would take quite a bit of snooping by those not familiar with it as it would literally not be visible and would only broadcast for a 300 - 1000 feet or so... and would just blend in with all of the other WiFi networks. One could even go an extra step and put a password on the site or whitelist certain MAC addresses so only certain people would be able to get in.

--sjkted

[TigaHawk]

key issue i can see with the current design is that the end which is sticking out is easily broken or snapped off. easiest way to do that - loose grip on ur laptop while its plugged into one :P That and when it rains water will get into the bit that u plug in - and theres allways little holes, seeps/cracks etc - so over time weather will get the best of that.


solution!

have the device fully hidden in the wall. Put a male to female connector on the end of it so it chances the end to the oposite of whatever it is. Whe the device is fully in the wall the elements are harder to get at it, and the male-female coverter should take the brunt of the water if any, further shielding the actual usb device.

So the device is totaly hidden now, you need to know which "hole in the wall" has the device. If you do, heres where the male/female connecter comes in handy. just get a usb extension cable. 1 end into ur pc, shove the other end into the wall- will connect up with the usb device in the wall and work the same as normal



I also like the toilet drop idea. How hard would it be to bring a knife into a stall with you - use it to unscrew the screws on the toilet roll holder, just 1 side, so you can turn the thing down so the area behind where the bar normaly is when its screwd in holds the device. Then you're able to, sit down and do you're buisness and you're buisness ;)

Disabled toilets, are generaly unisex - might solve the his/hers thing?



open public places where u could do dead drops and noone would be the wiser.
near buss stops or at train stations. along the ground.

U know how there isnt enough seats, and you allways have people sitting on the ground with laptop's in their hands, etc?

same deal, but the device is to be allmost on ground level as well. u'd have it situated just higher than what skirting board would be so its still shielded against the elements. then you just sit down, open ur laptop, pretend to plug ur Ipod in when you're actualy plugging the usb in?



Wireless is definately NOT the way to go.

I live in a block of units thats very close to a university.

IF i dont have my wireless turned off (and i also put alfoil around the atenna just in case) it takes about a day or two before i get students camped in the foyer of my level with laptops. It doesnt matter what encryption method i use or how long/complex the password is - my wireless is on, few days later they'll be there, leeching of me >.< - just a an example on how "secure" wireless is.


another thing with wireless, is its piss easy to triangluate if its sending out a signal. Lets just say someone knew someone who thought they knew more than they did about computers, setup their own wireless network that just happend to be alot higher gain and on the same frequency as a major isp's local signal :P did not take them long to pin where the misfit device was, and issue a fine :P

that and wireless is too easy to jam/interupt. have heard of someone who hated someone so much that they have taken a piece of shielding off the back of their microwave so that whenever its turned on wireleess/cell phone reception within X radius dies for the duration its turned on. imagine if said microwave was in you're local macdonalds or cafe where it's being used very frequently.

[Ammit]

This is a great idea, and yes it does have a few flaws. I used to "dead drop" totally legal ;) software at strategic places years ago and my buddies used to take and replace with something else. Always done with either (and dont laugh) optic disc for the amiga or floppy/cd for the pc. Who knows there may still be some out there now!!!!!

If the devices were made to be read only then at some point the device will be too full to accept more data, and if not checked often then data could be deleted and missed all together. When I first starting watching it I immediately thought it was an external link to a hd partition on a computer and not a usb device.:(

Fantastic idea though and thanks for sharing it Bill.

Blessings


Ammit

[MargueriteBee]

How would anyone know were the drop dead is?

[John Parslow]

... and how could we stop anyone corrupting them?

[HURRITT ENYETO]

I see a number of problematic issues with this. For instance if the authority's or even just somebody malicious got wind of the location of the dead drop, what is to stop them downloading say child porn onto said device, then you come along and unwittingly download said material onto your PERSONAL USB/Laptop and hey presto your now a criminal free to be arrested on leaving. Not to mention viruses, spyware etc. The read only thing would be a good idea but don't know to much about that. Not being a kill joy its just that users of such a dead drop would be exactly the demographic TPTB would want to eliminate.

[KosmicKat]

I think the underlying idea is sound, despite the possible caveats. While I appreciate the appeal of using a digital "dead mailbox" location, I would recommend not cementing anything anywhere, but regularly moving the drop to new sites, if possible avoiding the kind of sites that require frequent maintenance, like public toilets or (the increasingly sparse) payphones. Consider the way that "samizdat" literature used to circulate in the Soviet Union: perhaps we could adopt digital alternatives of the same kind of methods? And if I might suggest, now is the ideal time to start building your network of trusted neighbours with whom to share information.

[KosmicKat]

postscript:
Something else I would recommend when implementing an idea of this kind would be the use of a checksum (a means of verifying that the information stored is from a trusted source) possibly supplied in a different format (i.e. paper), something which can be done using freeware readily available.

[KosmicKat]

postscript II:
USB sockets can be harvested by anyone with a little bit of geekery from a dead computer chassis. (Recently done some similar stuff to revive my antique).

[sjkted]

How would anyone know were the drop dead is?

One could always leave a cryptic ad in the Lost and Found section of the local newspaper.

--sjkted

¤=[Post Update]=¤


... and how could we stop anyone corrupting them?

You can't. But, they're so easy to set up and cheap to do that they could be re-established very quickly if corrupted. Consider also that not everyone would need to physically visit one. For example, if you visited one and downloaded the info, you could share it with everyone you know without them having to visit the dead drop.

--sjkted

[Ammit]

If it was a trusted circle who knew where they were then corruption probably would not be an issue.
And Kosmickat " USB sockets can be harvested by anyone with a little bit of geekery from a dead computer chassis. (Recently done some similar stuff to revive my antique). " Please do tell....

Blessings

Ammit

[KosmicKat]

Removing the socket and associated wiring isn't too difficult. I'm not sure about driver software (at least pre-USB 2.0). My antique for the curious, is an HP Pavilion which originally came with MS Millenium Edition and was struggling to keep up.

[bluestflame]

yeah could sew socket into sleeve of certain jacket or coat , then simply lean against the wall while "checking email "on laptop

[NoTingles]

msg. deleted

[Robstar]

May I suggest just strapping a USB drive to a pigeon. HA, HA!:pound::laugh
Good lord ,why not just make a disk and give it to the person or as many as you want.
Standing in the street with your laptop hooked up to the wall may not be the best way to not attract attention.

[str8thinker]

Good idea, thanks Bill, but dangerous unless implemented carefully.

Frankly, if I saw one of these devices in a wall I'd be as eager to plug my computer into it as to stick my wotsit into a glory hole. At least, connect via an extension USB cable AND preferably connect using a completely wiped computer that can be checked for viruses.

Even with USB 2 it would take some time before transfer is completed, plenty of time for CCTV to pick you up. Even microdot technology sounds preferable. Sealing the USB inside something such as a condom might be preferable (use your imagination here).

Better still, avoid the PC completely and use a USB-to-USB transfer device:
http://reviews.cnet.com/hubs/sima-hitch-usb-transfer/4505-3335_7-31997849.html
http://www.amazon.com/Photo-HardDisk-External-Drive-HD182-20/dp/B0009GYTI4

Also worth reading comments on the actual YouTube pages (http://www.youtube.com/comment_servlet?all_comments=1&v=A3pKF6gREFw).

[sjkted]

Another good point. It could be infected with a trojan or other malware that infects the laptop. Although, I suppose when we get to that point many of us will have abandoned Windows in favor of Linux, and thus would not need to worry about malware too much...

--sjkted

[Ammit]

I like linuz but would only ever totally migrate to it when I can install all the software I use on a daily basis without having to work with it in a massive screen or without any sound etc.

[Humble Janitor]

I realize that this thread is over a month old.

However, I just disagree with Bill on promoting such methods.

First of all, I do not think that it's possible for a single government to crash the internet. We have seen organizations such as Anon that have the knowledge and experience to get around such roadblocks.

Second of all, corporations would suffer at the loss of the internet. Sure, they could just go WWW2 or whatever the new internet is. It would still shut down smaller businesses that can't afford such a thing.

Third of all, it's promoting unnecessary FEAR. Wikileaks and Anon have shown me personally that as long as there are dedicated crackers/hackers, the internet is not going anywhere, anytime soon. As I learned when I was younger and first became exposed to the internet, there are ways around filtering programs, etc. I have personally gotten around some early filters.

[shadowstalker]

I don't see it to be much of a hassle if you keep the drop zone a tight secret, in other words tell only folks that you can TRUST, That's the way it's usually done right, like back in the pre net days,, specific drop zone to specific people.

HJ: he also said, "or post-CME"

[MorningSong]

I just heard a "flash" notice on this iniziative on the RAINews (Italian news channel) and, for curiosity, went to look at the site that has been set up.

http://deaddrops.com/

Take a look at the list of dead drops already in existance in the world!
http://deaddrops.com/dead-drops/db-map/

[araucaria]

Malcolm Bradbury's answer to book-burning in Fahrenheit 451 was to have human books - everyone learning off texts by heart. Any volunteers?