The Billy Meier case: what's the truth?

[zakkyD1302]

So i have been reading and watching some stuff on Billy and I find his stuff to really be amazing and quiet credible but that's my opinion. Anyways People have said that the picture he took of the female ets That were called Asket and Nera were fake and that he got them off the Dean Martin show I don't know if any one has made this connection but I found it kind of interesting and thought I would share it with others. But listen to the lyrics to the song of dean Martin ( it's easy to remember but hard to forget) maybe it's a coincidence who knows lol here's the link to the show

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=x6edQVowYLA

[Cidersomerset]

Hi Zakky this always polarises opinion , there is interesting plausible material
and some suspect aspects like the afore mentioned photos , some of the models
Billy had made , the ray gun and other bits and pieces. There also is loads of
intrigueing photos film and witness testimony interviews and research by
credible investigators. If, like many you find the case fascinating don't get
drawn in to either extreme side of the debate , until you know more about it,but
follow your own instincts and if it feels it has some merits dip in and out. If not
don't let it bog you down in trying to debunk it as many have tried before.

I think there is something to it and his early material and photos in India look
genuine , so no doubt you will get various responses if this follows other Billy Meier
threads....

Previous thread.....Some of the U/tubes have timed out , but you should be able to
find , refreshed versions.
http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?43426-Billy-Meier-and-Ptaah--ET--talking-about-2012....Contact-476-3-2-2009&p=548060#post548060

Another interesting thread I noticed when I searched for one above...
http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?50137-XCon-2005-Charles-Hall-The-Tall-Whites-ET-Experiences-in-the-Nevada-Desert/page3

[WhiteFeather]

IMO I believe he's real and his material had been tampered and slandered by TPTW. Again its my opinion. I could be wrong. But I don't feel like it. Something of truth with the meir visitations feels right to me.

We are all 1 tribe.....

W
F

[Mike Gorman]

Hi Zakky this always polarises opinion , there is interesting plausible material
and some suspect aspects like the afore mentioned photos , some of the models
Billy had made , the ray gun and other bits and pieces. There also is loads of
intrigueing photos film and witness testimony interviews and research by
credible investigators. If, like many you find the case fascinating don't get
drawn in to either extreme side of the debate , until you know more about it,but
follow your own instincts and if it feels it has some merits dip in and out. If not
don't let it bog you down in trying to debunk it as many have tried before.

I think there is something to it and his early material and photos in India look
genuine , so no doubt you will get various responses if this follows other Billy Meier
threads....

Previous thread.....Some of the U/tubes have timed out , but you should be able to
find , refreshed versions.
http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?43426-Billy-Meier-and-Ptaah--ET--talking-about-2012....Contact-476-3-2-2009&p=548060#post548060

Another interesting thread I noticed when I searched for one above...
http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?50137-XCon-2005-Charles-Hall-The-Tall-Whites-ET-Experiences-in-the-Nevada-Desert/page3

Those models were actually made to test how 'a model would look in the distance' by a film effects company, and some guys found a couple of them and attributed them to Billy, ironically enough.
i think the work by Wendall Stevens is particularly good, his group really put Billy's evidence under the rigour of science and the original film and audio was found to be authentic, and the photographs, not so sure about the dinosaur
picture and some of the time travel stuff - but it seems obvious something happened, and that account by the lady diplomat who lived in the Indian ashram Billy stayed at with the visiting craft, witnessed by many. Interesting stuff for sure.

[EWO]

I read ALL of Meiers contact reports. At the beginning (70s-80s) it was fascinating. He had so much details and evidence. Then in late 80s and on the reports got repetitive and strange. My conclusion at the end was that Bill did have contact with ETs but at some point they broke it off, but Billy didnt. He kept writing and taking pictures and the material shows this.
IMO I think the ETs were using Billy for their own agenda but when that didnt work as planned they simply left. Poor Billy was too immersed in that experience he could not let go so for the sake of the group he kept on writing.

Good ETs Bad ETs, it doesnt matter, everyone has their own agenda, just like our politicians, that will never change.

[ghostrider]

the contacts are still going on to this day ... He writes the spiritual teaching for the ETs ... they pick it up every Thursday , via telemeter cloaked disk that hovers over the SSSC... the world and UFO community will do what they can to discredit him , yet they cannot stop the tidal wave of truth that has begun ... We are not alone in the Universe , they have allowed their ships to be photographed in the daytime , clear picture taken prior to the internet and photoshop ... hell he even has a photo taken of a ship from inside another ship ... they have allowed their ships sounds to be recorded , they have given metal samples , and predictions for the future , all to get us to wake up and learn how to think ... then the real point for the contacts begins , teaching of the laws of Creation so we don't do what our and their forefathers did ... Blow up civilization ... every civilization in the past has fallen , due to the lust for power and control that keeps incarnating on Earth ... their forefathers brought it here , the plejaren feel responsible for Earth ...

[Cidersomerset]

Those models were actually made to test how 'a model would look in the distance' by a film effects company, and some guys found a couple of them and attributed them to Billy, ironically enough.
i think the work by Wendall Stevens is particularly good, his group really put Billy's evidence under the rigour of science and the original film and audio was found to be authentic, and the photographs, not so sure about the dinosaur
picture and some of the time travel stuff - but it seems obvious something happened, and that account by the lady diplomat who lived in the Indian ashram Billy stayed at with the visiting craft, witnessed by many. Interesting stuff for sure.



I know its all on my thread , there are some good interviews on there.......

Wendell was one of best known researchers into the Billy Meier case and is
one of the most respected Ufologist's to date.


Wendell Stevens on Billy Meier UFO

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UFO researcher, USAF Lt. Col. Wendelle Stevens last interview

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Uploaded on 2 Nov 2011

In Memory of UFO researcher, USAF Lt. Col. Wendelle Stevens. Many thanks for
your great work!! more info on: http://www.openminds.tv/videos/

[Tyy1907]

I agree with the fact that Meiers character was deliberately attacked and discredited which speaks volumes.

Don't mean to hijack but was Semjase a 4d Pleiadian that manifested a 3d body to interact with Billy, or was she always 3d human?

[mahigitam]

I agree with the fact that Meiers character was deliberately attacked and discredited which speaks volumes.


Meier claimed that he has prophecized or predicted a lot of world events and scientific discoveries before our scientists did and yet when verified there is zero evidence to prove it; in fact there is more evidence of backdating.
http://www.billymeieruforesearch.com/prophecies-predictions-probability-calculations/

At the same time claimed that he went on space and time travel and took photos, but when these photos are investigated they are identical to photos from TV shows, magazines, etc. Remember these space photos have been authenticated by Plejaren as genuine in 2001 and are published in new edition of contact notes.
http://www.billymeieruforesearch.com/photos-and-videos/

[Tyy1907]

The waters have been muddied quite a bit with this case. Reminds me of what Jesus said back in the day, his message was for those that had ears to hear. So what was important in the Meier case? What was the intent of his contacts? What's more important the message or the messenger? :behindsofa:

[thepainterdoug]

i have always found the meier case to be credible. i ask myself if it was my intention to hoax something, could i pull it off, not just for a day week or month etc, but for 30 years, being interviewed, scrutinized and so on , only to be found a fraud for doing so.
and for what benefit ? is this a money or career maker ?.
i recently met travis walton in person in nyc at the screening of a doc film about his ufo event. 30 years later, he's still telling the same story consistently. The event completely changed his life, altered his career path, job opportunities , marriage and personal life etc.
for what? a lucrative career at 100 dollars an appearance ?
so I feel if most of us went to see billy meier, sat and talked with him at his home as wendell stevens did, we would have little doubt .

[Bluegreen]

There are many sides to this story
Just sayin
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[Precog]

What I would really like to know is if Billy was getting all of this information about future events coming, why no info on 9/11? When he spoke out about 9/11 on one of his DVDs he claimed we were attacked by 19 high-jackers witch is not what happened.

[Cidersomerset]

I have posted this interview on previous threads and is all part of the
story and is a sad aspect of the situation , and like all organisation like
FIGU there is good and bad.

There were lots of problems with this case from the start , Billy himself was a
wayward child , and was & is a flawed human being he is not God. Domestically he
failed as a 'classic father' as with millions of others. Methulsalem mother also had
marital problems with Billy and the whole situation , and it came to a head over this
period and incidents occurred ,which some would call it discipline others abuse , it
certainly has left psychological scars.

His wife and children obviously suffered with the time Billy spent at his work . In
hind sight he probably should of stayed single and as shown in the early
documentaries he kept open house and many photos were stolen and Billy was
running a small holding and the centre had been infiltrated by the intelligence
agencies and there were many assassination attempts on his life. Although
Methulsalem is sad and upset about how he was treated by some members at FIGU
and not being understood and helped more by his father. He does not debunk the
work of his father and as far as he knows the contacts were genuine.

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As I said above there are aspects of the case that seem implausible
and dis info and possible spin by some members of FIGU has probably
gone on over the years. I do not follow their work and most of my
interest comes from the basic question are UFO's real ? and
who ? Are ? When ? questions that follow from that.

I think they are , though we have probably got human craft
doing similar things now.

The ray gun looks suspect , but as Methulsalem says he saw the
hole in the tree , and who knows what such a weapon should
look like , human fire arms come in all shapes and sizes....

Billy posing with gun..
http://i287.photobucket.com/albums/ll154/mvidarus/ray512.jpg

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Platic guns look like toys and some look real

http://www.3ders.org/images/japan-3d-printed-gun-1.png

http://www.3ders.org/articles/20140508-japanese-man-arrested-for-possessing-3d-printed-guns.html


http://hhshootingsports.com/WireShots/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/3d-printed-rifle.jpg

[Camilo]

I have reviewed his material over the years and I feel this is the most compelling case, and of course TPTW have done everything withing their power to discredit him, because of the potential consecuences.

[Rex]

Reminded me of this clip (can't remember if this was Encounters or Sightings, but I remember watching it when it aired):


http://www.disclose.tv/action/viewvideo/77848/Billy_Meier_Ufo_Debate__Jim_Dilettoso_VS_Kal_Korff/

The clip is of Jim Delittoso vs Kal Korff taking sides on the Billy Meier case regarding their personal research into it. Clocks in at a quick 7:13.

Unfortunately this will only muddy the waters further. Jim seems to solidly lose his case to Kal, but in hindsight does the show do this intentionally? Who's calling the shots? I remember seeing this and then being surprised to discover that Richard Hoagland and Jim worked together for awhile.

I did a quick google of Kal and was surprised to see how far he seems to have fallen. Or has he?

Apologies :focus:

[Cidersomerset]

This is from 2012 I think ? though could be earlier , but many years after the initial
investigations , and like Wendelle and others who looked into the Billy Meier case
did not make money out of it. They did it because they were/are enthusiasts like
many on forums like Avalon and are interested in the unknown and as Jim says its
a hobby , other wise he would not of spent thousands of hours on this subject and
others. In this presentation he gives background on the subject and how he
approaches his work. These are genuine people and have done their best to get to
the bottom of some aspects of Billies claims. A good interview to get an insight
from Jims perspective.......

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Wendelle Stevens Team-Jim Dilettoso's Methodology & Testing of Billy Meier UFO Photos

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Published on 12 Apr 2012


Wendelle Stevens Team-Jim Dilettoso's Methodology & Testing of Billy Meier UFO Photos

My website dedicated to researching and archiving both the pro & con
evidence of the Meier case: http://www.billymeieruforesearch.com/

[Tyy1907]

Just found this- a woman that met Asket at the same ashram that Billy was at several years earlier
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[Elainie]

I got heavily into the Meier material back in the 80's. My ex husband and I befriended Wendelle and ex even flew to Switzerland to meet Billy, all he met was the inner circle but he was impressed (back then) with what they had to say.

I do find the models, the faux ray gun and the pictures of Asket And Nera (an outed hoax) disconcerting. I don't know what to make of the case anymore, but theories like Nazi's from the South Pole doing a Psy ops have run through my mind.

[DeeMetrios]

I briefly looked into his contact reports some years ago now & all was good positive reading ...
but a few years ago i found out that his sources say "they are the one & only true source of information"
& that other contactee's & channels are not genuine .
I never bothered with him again , as is evident .......... his material & what he brings forth is tainted .

[Cidersomerset]

Well there is definitely something about this case that at the basic level is intriguing
for me ,and the alternative is that Billy was wondering the world talking to
imaginary friends on his varied and sometimes dangerous adventures......

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UFO_Reopening_of_the_Billy_Meier_Case_3of3_Phobol_Cheng_1999.avi

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====================================================

India 1964:

The Foundational Evidence

that Establishes the Authenticity

of the

Billy Meier UFO Contacts

India 1964

In 1964, Billy Meier was interviewed by a S. Venkatesh, a reporter for
the New Delhi Statesman, a prominent Indian newspaper in existence
since 1818. At this time, Meier was studying in the Ashoka Ashram, in
Mehrauli, a remote area approximately one and one-half hours outside
of New Delhi. Meier, whose full name is Eduard Albert Meier, is referred
to as "Mr. Edward Albert" in the article. He acquired the nickname, "Billy",
by which he is now widely known from an American woman he also met in
1964, in Pakistan. She thought that he reminded her of the legendary
Wild Bill Hickok.

The photo below shows Meier in Pakistan in 1964, one of 43 countries he
hitchhiked through over a 12-year period, dressed in garb similar to
American cowboys.

http://theyfly.com/Meier_Pakistan_2.jpg

The 1964 Newspaper Article


http://theyfly.com/New%20Delhi%20Journal%20Article%203.jpg


The above information establishes that:

Meier was in India in 1964 and was interviewed in a well respected, credible publication.

The author of the article had personally seen 80 of Meier's UFO photographs.

At the time, Meier was a poor hitchhiker who had no money or other known resources.

As is also stated in the article, Meier didn't seek any publicity during this time
and it wasn't until 11 years later, in 1975, that he first went public, at the
request of the new group of extraterrestrials who had contacted him. He verifiably
had neither the means nor opportunity to have hoaxed this foundational evidence.
Nor can it be said that he had any discernable motive, as he eschewed public
attention for well over a decade after having shown the 80 UFO photographs
to the reporter.

And perhaps of the utmost importance is the fact that when Meier did go public
it was primarily with the evidence from 1975 on. He didn't draw any attention
- well deserved as it would have been - to this foundational evidence that
effectively closes the door on all theories of hoaxing, seeking fame and fortune,
etc. Considering how ironclad it is, one must wonder why Meier didn't capitalize
on it from the very beginning...if his motives were such as the skeptics have
long accused him.

Retired UN Ambassador

http://www.tjresearch.info/Phobal_plain_text.htm

Phobol Cheng, a now retired UN ambassador who represented Cambodia for 12
years in the General Assembly, not only corroborated Meier's story, and the
information in the article, she showed some of Meier's UFO photos from that
time (see below) and described details about them in her filmed presentation.
She reported that, in addition to herself, numerous witnesses had not only seen
the UFOs but had also seen an extraterrestrial woman known as Asket.

Phobol Cheng and Meier were both evaluated for truthfulness by an expert
consultant to the U.S. Army Special Forces who specializes in teaching how to
read - and evaluate - body language. He gave them both a thumbs up for honesty.

Unlike the majority of historical source material, the Meier evidence doesn't rely
on strictly anecdotal information. It incorporates all of the most desired elements
for establishing historical accuracy, i.e. dated, published, eyewitness accounts that
are substantiated by clear, specific physical evidence referred to in the accounts, as
well as verifiably credible, still living witnesses who were filmed corroborating the
story and the evidence first presented in it decades ago.

It really doesn't get much better than that.

The India UFO Photographs

http://www.tjresearch.info/phobal67.jpg

Phobol Cheng and her grand father...

http://caveviews.blogs.com/cave_news/2008/02/1930s-kodak-fol.html

Meier took a number of photos of Asket's, and her people's, UFOs over the Ashoka
Ashram, using an old Kodak bellows type (folding) camera, which he later sold in
Kurdistan:

http://theyfly.com/2.%20India%201964.jpg





http://theyfly.com/Small%20ashram.gif


(Enlarged below)

http://theyfly.com/India%20(enlarged%20ashram).jpg


Eight UFOs over the Ashoka Ashram



The photo below shows eight UFOs over the Ashoka Ashram with Phobol Cheng's
ayah (nursemaid) in the foreground looking at the ships. During her presentation,
Phobol described this photo, "OK, this is a very interesting, and also important to
me. This is a whole bunch of them around on top of the Ashoka. This is the
background of the place. You cannot see very clearly of the reproduction here.
But this is one of my ayahs washing my clothes sitting in the veranda outside of
my room. She's washing here (pointing with laser pointer) my school uniform. On
the original photos it's much more clear. So we shared these stories because we
had interacted with her quite a bit -- the washing lady. For me it's very important,
because when I had my experience it was not something.. -- for me it was very
natural and have seen [to have seen?] a lot of ships over the temple or over the
-- we have a large area -- over the trees, near the well, over the house.":


http://theyfly.com/8%20Clear%20UFOs%20India.jpg

UFO in Night Sky over Ashoka Ashram:

http://theyfly.com/UFO%20India.jpg

The Most Amazing Photo


In his 1964 New Delhi Statesman article, Mr. Venkatesh referred to this startling
photo below as showing "a big, bright cross". Meier had asked Asket to demonstrate
something dramatic that her ship was capable of, which she clearly did using a
technology unknown to Meier. (There is conjecture that the cross was a kind of
holographic projection, perhaps similar to that which was used by another
extraterrestrial race that created the Miracle at Fátima illusion.) Notice that
directly behind Meier, who is sitting in the foreground in this daytime photo, is
the same tower as the one in the lower corner of the nighttime photo above (130).



The cross was widely seen by other people in the area, including two women who
worked with Meier at the ashram helping to take care of animals, Mrs. Fiske and
Mrs. Crystal Rogers, both of whom were actually present with Meier at the time
this photo was taken. Mrs. Fiske was an English governess who came to India to
teach the children of a maharaja. She then came to the ashram to teach Phobol,
but this was not for very long, because she tried to force Phobol to become an
English "Lady".



Consider that Meier was in India to study Buddhism. Among the things that he came
to learn was meditation and to study the teachings that included information on
reincarnation. Just a year earlier, in 1963, he and Isa Rashid had co-discovered an
ancient document in a long forgotten tomb in Jerusalem. So Asket may have used
this opportunity to also include a hint pertaining to one of Meier's own previous
incarnations, when he was also an important prophet for humankind who came to
teach in India, after having survived being...crucified.:


http://theyfly.com/Kreuz%20am%20Himmel%202.png


In Appreciation of Mr. Venkatesh

In Gary Kinder's book, "Light Years", (Part 4, page 47) we find the following information:

"Many years after the article appeared in the New Delhi Statesman, the reporter,
S.Venkatesh responded to a letter inquiring about the mysterious Mr. Albert. He
wrote: 'I distinctly remember meeting the man and he seemed, on recollection,
very serious about what he was saying. I for one would be eager to know what
he did later on, whether he encountered any more space men and ships and
whether he disclosed anything to anyone later, as he promised he would.'"

In 1965, a year after his experiences in India, Meier lost his arm in an accident in
Turkey. Some 10 years later, in 1975, he began to release to the world volumes
of the clearest, most unambiguous photos, film, video, sound recordings and even
metal samples of the UFOs, all of which were shown to be free of manipulation,
models, special effects, etc. It must be emphasized that the sheer variety,
quantity - and quality - of Meier's more recent physical evidence exceeded
anything he presented when he had two hands to work with.

I think Mr. Venkatesh would have been very interested to know just how much
"Mr. Edward Albert", aka Billy Meier, has indeed experienced and disclosed to
the world, since their meeting in India, in 1964. And, while he is no longer
amongst us to receive it, we offer our appreciation to him for providing such
rare, historical evidence that at once establishes the truthfulness of Meier's
claims and confronts us with the most important story in human history.

[url]http://theyfly.com/India_1964.html[/url

[ghostrider]

What I would really like to know is if Billy was getting all of this information about future events coming, why no info on 9/11? When he spoke out about 9/11 on one of his DVDs he claimed we were attacked by 19 high-jackers witch is not what happened.

there was info on the 9-11 attacks . one supervisor and two agents brought intel to president Bush , he chose to ignore it ... quetzal gave information around 1987 about the WTC attack ... Billy was told to be discreet about certain events until after they happened ... He was given the date and time of several world leaders for over 60 years , you can read the date and time stamped notes of the predictions given to him by the plejaren , even the name of the ET giving the prediction ...

[ghostrider]

I find it interesting the UFO community in general , wants nothing to do with a one armed Swiss farmer , who talks face to face with off world humans for over 70 years now and the contacts are still ongoing to this day ... 26,000 pages of notes , 1200 clear daytime photo's made before photo shop and the internet , metal samples , sounds recordings , future predictions , 100 witnesses to the beamships , a retired LT. Col from the air force's testimony , alien hand prints on the hood of his cars , that are still burnt into the metal , ancient scrolls left for him by Immanuel called the Talmud of Immanuel , landing tracks that are still there from the 70's , Swiss fighter jets in some of the photos of the beamships , four beamships in some photos at the same time in broad daylight , people from the ashram seeing him walking with asket(ET) in the garden , and oh , he gave predictions in the 80's that America would be in two wars in Iraq and the second war would be led by the son of a former president ... not one other case has this much hard evidence ... and he is ignored ... I am resolved to the opinion that some don't want to believe that our world is under an illusion by religion , government , the military , and some well meaning people who care more about money and fame than truth and the future of generations to come after us who will live through what we have allowed to be created on Earth ... His contacts state their forefathers were the gods of our past , they built huge stone cities on every continent , a member of their race along with 200 scientist and 70,000 people stole a beamship and fled into space and came here ... they feel responsible for Earth for what their forefathers did , genetically altering man , and enslaving the world with religion , allowing a man (human being) to be worshipped above Creation , presenting himself as the Creator of Creation and his guard angels co-creators ... this lie still lingers today , Jehav and his son Jehovah are some names you might know ...

[giovonni]

Personally i have no major issues with Billy Meier's story ... It's Michael Horn (his publicist/rep) i can't stand.
i sense the eccentric Meier's has allowed him way too much control of himself and his material ...
And note Billy doesn't have an exclusivity on contact ... ;)

[Cidersomerset]

Personally i have no major issues with Billy Meier's story ... It's Michael Horn (his publicist/rep) i can't stand.
i sense the eccentric Meier's has allowed him way too much control of himself and his material ...
And note Billy doesn't have an exclusivity on contact ...



I know what you mean , I have not listened to
Michael Horne for a few years , and I do not listen
to the contact material although I have heard some
of the tapes.

As I said on several threads . I'm more interested
in the fact it happened and was one of several contacts
after WW11 and as Stanton Friedman says from the
ET's point of view ' The kids have found the matches'
a ref to the dropping of the atomic bombs on Japan
and the nuclear arms race during the cold war.

This brought various humanoid ET's into contact with
various contactees . Then there are the negative ,
neutral and inter dimensional ET's that have probably
always been visiting and may of had a hand in our
development and spiritual guidance ??

[ghostrider]

Personally i have no major issues with Billy Meier's story ... It's Michael Horn (his publicist/rep) i can't stand.
i sense the eccentric Meier's has allowed him way too much control of himself and his material ...
And note Billy doesn't have an exclusivity on contact ... ;)

I would urge you to focus on the message , and overlook the messenger , Michael rubs my wrong at times as well ... The plejaren's message to us is = if the world is going to change it's up to us , to learn to control our thoughts , feelings , and actions ... this is a process they undertake with various worlds who have reached a level of rational thinking , to prepare them for the thought they are not alone in the Universe ...

[OMG]

Michael Horn debates with Santon Friedman about the Billy Meier case being basically the ONLY legitimate UFO case on record that has actual and irrefutable PROOF beyond just testimony. And the vast amounts of PROOF is so overwhelming that alien disclosure has already happened if people would honestly just observe the case.

In addition and even more relevant to Horn tha proof of aliens is the message that we MUST act to prevent cataclysm through self empowerment and social responsibility against the forces that seek to destroy us. And among ALL of the UFO cases available Billy's is by far the most reliable, accurate, truthful and best to use as a catalyst for convincing the masses of such realities.

Part 1: http://hwcdn.libsyn.com/p/9/c/0/9c0b7766df0ec503/2015-11-11_Segment_1_-_HORN_VS_FRIEDMAN_-_The_Billy_Meier_Debate_-_Round_2_-_Part_1.mp3?c_id=10270344&expiration=1450542806&hwt=db61441e4f6119a13deb19664c48c26b

Part 2: http://hwcdn.libsyn.com/p/3/3/f/33ff659b477bacff/2015-11-11_Segment_2_-_HORN_VS_FRIEDMAN_-_The_Billy_Meier_Debate_-_Round_2_-_Part_2.mp3?c_id=10270336&expiration=1450542415&hwt=cb44a700e4bd9cf492103f93dd7f1a4a


Michael Horns website http://theyfly.com

[Bill Ryan]

.
I read Gary Kinder's most excellent book Light Years (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0670818860) back in 1988, and it captivated me. I then became extremely interested in Billy Meier's story.

There are a number of early videos he took (all on his own, with his one arm) that look really pretty real — published LONG before any kind of CGI was readily available.

I also talked at length with George Green (see this Camelot interview (http://projectcamelot.org/george_green.html)), who had had personal, highly strange experiences with Billy back in the 1980s — and I had the privilege to meet and talk with Wendelle Stevens, before he died.

I do believe that Billy did had some very genuine contact experiences, back in the early days. Kerry Cassidy and I visited his farm in Switzerland (it was impossible to talk with Billy himself, though, who trusts no-one any more). There's a little barn there turned into a kind of visitor center, with displays of large, high-resolution, early photos that look stunning and impressive... far more so than a small image you might see on a web page.

But there is very compelling (almost overwhelming) evidence that after those early days, he began to fake and fabricate things. Not smart, of course... because it means then all his legitimate material could also be thrown out with the bathwater. (And it has been, by many people.)

And Michael Horn (Billy's professional, full-time paid PR spokesman) does not help. He is (let's put it this way) highly committed to Billy, but he's an unpleasant, ferocious attack dog in defense of Billy's stories, and is almost impossible to dialog with. Almost everyone I know in the UFO community has kind of washed their hands of the whole thing, because it's become so muddy and tainted, and really hard to deal with from an honest researcher's point of view.

Only Billy knows the truth of what really happened. I would love to have interviewed him... and I really tried. In summary: the early evidence way well be largely for real (and is extraordinary). The later evidence is largely not, at the same time as the claims became more and more outlandish and extreme. And if one visits the They Fly (http://theyfly.com) website, you can get lost in all the detail for literally hours and days.

[Karpos]

Bill Ryan made a great post above that i think echoes how many of us feel/felt about Meier, but ...

It's possible that billy meier was a lying scam artist fraud from the start. Just sayin'.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HxHt-R687pE

[Cidersomerset]

I'm also not a Michael Horne fan and as Bill said he is a long term devoted
investigator and spokeman for Billy . I find him a ' hard listen' . I do like
the early investigations , though the seventies/documentary is of its
time with private investigation team straight out of an American cop show.

There are several threads about this here and I find the early 1960's photos from
India compelling and his general story makes him a real life Indiana Jones.This is
where people who have looked into this split in two and as with the Sean Morton
interview I heard yesterday which sounded straight out of a Science fiction novel ,
which ironically he was using the material as part of a series of books. Science
fiction and ufology are so inter twined the average person would not be able to tell
the difference in a lot of cases imo. The info Sean and Kerry were discussing were
from many cases I knew or recognised , but for anyone new listening in , it must
have sounded odd...LOL

Which is why screen writers are looking thru alternate information all the time and I
see aspects of many cases quoted or copied in the many scy -fy series , movies and books.

Back to Billy I remember back in the late 1970's an atrticle on the TV news about a
Swiss farmer filming UFO's. which is where I first became aware of the case , but it
was not until much later when I had access to the internet that I could look it up
and the Wendell Stevens interviews and various debates with the film analyst Jim
Dilettoso's and the original investigation team that makes me believe its a
legitimate case. The intelligence services certainly did, as Wendelle explained when
he was detained by them in London and asked questions on his way back from
Switzerland.

IgblP8d-DEQ

Wendelle Stevens talks on how they - as ufo-investigators on the case, were
watched and followed by the CIA and the international intelligencia, while
scrutinizing this ufo-contact in Switzerland in the 70ths. This while the same hidden
power people ridiculing this, and similar cases to the deceived society.


Like all these cases unfortunately we are in the hands of others and we can only
keep piecing all the pieces together as we are doing, and the full landscape will
come into view I hope.

[ghostrider]

Edwards case has 1,200 clear daytime photos before photoshop , 8mm films , sound recording s, metal samples, landing tracks , over 100 witnesses to the ships , one of them is an ambassador to the U.N. 26,000 pages of contact notes , hand prints burnt into the car in his driveway, food grown in the drifting gardens of the great spacer, he has taken pictures of the beamships from the inside of a beamship , they have landed in his driveway, hovered over his house, hovered in his trees , many clear sharp up clise daytime photos ... they have given him ancient earth history predictions for the future, and it continues to this day for over 73 years face to face speaking with the watchers ... no other case has this much evidence ... their ancestors called themselves the sons of heaven ... they feel responsible for what their ancestors did coming here posing as gods/angels ...

[Cidersomerset]

UFO_Reopening_of_the_Billy_Meier_Case_3of3_Phobol_Cheng_1999.avi

pf8LaD3pFHg

====================================================

India 1964:

The Foundational Evidence that Establishes the Authenticity of theBilly Meier UFO Contacts

India 1964

In 1964, Billy Meier was interviewed by a S. Venkatesh, a reporter for
the New Delhi Statesman, a prominent Indian newspaper in existence
since 1818. At this time, Meier was studying in the Ashoka Ashram, in
Mehrauli, a remote area approximately one and one-half hours outside
of New Delhi. Meier, whose full name is Eduard Albert Meier, is referred
to as "Mr. Edward Albert" in the article. He acquired the nickname, "Billy",
by which he is now widely known from an American woman he also met in
1964, in Pakistan. She thought that he reminded her of the legendary
Wild Bill Hickok.

The photo below shows Meier in Pakistan in 1964, one of 43 countries he
hitchhiked through over a 12-year period, dressed in garb similar to
American cowboys.

http://theyfly.com/Meier_Pakistan_2.jpg

The 1964 Newspaper Article


http://theyfly.com/New%20Delhi%20Journal%20Article%203.jpg


The above information establishes that:

Meier was in India in 1964 and was interviewed in a well respected, credible publication.

The author of the article had personally seen 80 of Meier's UFO photographs.

At the time, Meier was a poor hitchhiker who had no money or other known resources.

As is also stated in the article, Meier didn't seek any publicity during this time
and it wasn't until 11 years later, in 1975, that he first went public, at the
request of the new group of extraterrestrials who had contacted him. He verifiably
had neither the means nor opportunity to have hoaxed this foundational evidence.
Nor can it be said that he had any discernable motive, as he eschewed public
attention for well over a decade after having shown the 80 UFO photographs
to the reporter.

And perhaps of the utmost importance is the fact that when Meier did go public
it was primarily with the evidence from 1975 on. He didn't draw any attention
- well deserved as it would have been - to this foundational evidence that
effectively closes the door on all theories of hoaxing, seeking fame and fortune,
etc. Considering how ironclad it is, one must wonder why Meier didn't capitalize
on it from the very beginning...if his motives were such as the skeptics have
long accused him.

Retired UN Ambassador

http://www.tjresearch.info/Phobal_plain_text.htm

Phobol Cheng, a now retired UN ambassador who represented Cambodia for 12
years in the General Assembly, not only corroborated Meier's story, and the
information in the article, she showed some of Meier's UFO photos from that
time (see below) and described details about them in her filmed presentation.
She reported that, in addition to herself, numerous witnesses had not only seen
the UFOs but had also seen an extraterrestrial woman known as Asket.

Phobol Cheng and Meier were both evaluated for truthfulness by an expert
consultant to the U.S. Army Special Forces who specializes in teaching how to
read - and evaluate - body language. He gave them both a thumbs up for honesty.

Unlike the majority of historical source material, the Meier evidence doesn't rely
on strictly anecdotal information. It incorporates all of the most desired elements
for establishing historical accuracy, i.e. dated, published, eyewitness accounts that
are substantiated by clear, specific physical evidence referred to in the accounts, as
well as verifiably credible, still living witnesses who were filmed corroborating the
story and the evidence first presented in it decades ago.

It really doesn't get much better than that.

The India UFO Photographs


http://www.tjresearch.info/phobal67.jpg

Phobol Cheng and her grand father...

http://caveviews.blogs.com/cave_news/2008/02/1930s-kodak-fol.html

Meier took a number of photos of Asket's, and her people's, UFOs over the Ashoka
Ashram, using an old Kodak bellows type (folding) camera, which he later sold in
Kurdistan:

http://theyfly.com/2.%20India%201964.jpg





http://theyfly.com/Small%20ashram.gif


(Enlarged below)

http://theyfly.com/India%20(enlarged%20ashram).jpg


Eight UFOs over the Ashoka Ashram



The photo below shows eight UFOs over the Ashoka Ashram with Phobol Cheng's
ayah (nursemaid) in the foreground looking at the ships. During her presentation,
Phobol described this photo, "OK, this is a very interesting, and also important to
me. This is a whole bunch of them around on top of the Ashoka. This is the
background of the place. You cannot see very clearly of the reproduction here.
But this is one of my ayahs washing my clothes sitting in the veranda outside of
my room. She's washing here (pointing with laser pointer) my school uniform. On
the original photos it's much more clear. So we shared these stories because we
had interacted with her quite a bit -- the washing lady. For me it's very important,
because when I had my experience it was not something.. -- for me it was very
natural and have seen [to have seen?] a lot of ships over the temple or over the
-- we have a large area -- over the trees, near the well, over the house.":


http://theyfly.com/8%20Clear%20UFOs%20India.jpg

UFO in Night Sky over Ashoka Ashram:

http://theyfly.com/UFO%20India.jpg

The Most Amazing Photo


In his 1964 New Delhi Statesman article, Mr. Venkatesh referred to this startling
photo below as showing "a big, bright cross". Meier had asked Asket to demonstrate
something dramatic that her ship was capable of, which she clearly did using a
technology unknown to Meier. (There is conjecture that the cross was a kind of
holographic projection, perhaps similar to that which was used by another
extraterrestrial race that created the Miracle at Fátima illusion.) Notice that
directly behind Meier, who is sitting in the foreground in this daytime photo, is
the same tower as the one in the lower corner of the nighttime photo above (130).



The cross was widely seen by other people in the area, including two women who
worked with Meier at the ashram helping to take care of animals, Mrs. Fiske and
Mrs. Crystal Rogers, both of whom were actually present with Meier at the time
this photo was taken. Mrs. Fiske was an English governess who came to India to
teach the children of a maharaja. She then came to the ashram to teach Phobol,
but this was not for very long, because she tried to force Phobol to become an
English "Lady".



Consider that Meier was in India to study Buddhism. Among the things that he came
to learn was meditation and to study the teachings that included information on
reincarnation. Just a year earlier, in 1963, he and Isa Rashid had co-discovered an
ancient document in a long forgotten tomb in Jerusalem. So Asket may have used
this opportunity to also include a hint pertaining to one of Meier's own previous
incarnations, when he was also an important prophet for humankind who came to
teach in India, after having survived being...crucified.:


http://theyfly.com/Kreuz%20am%20Himmel%202.png


In Appreciation of Mr. Venkatesh

In Gary Kinder's book, "Light Years", (Part 4, page 47) we find the following information:

"Many years after the article appeared in the New Delhi Statesman, the reporter,
S.Venkatesh responded to a letter inquiring about the mysterious Mr. Albert. He
wrote: 'I distinctly remember meeting the man and he seemed, on recollection,
very serious about what he was saying. I for one would be eager to know what
he did later on, whether he encountered any more space men and ships and
whether he disclosed anything to anyone later, as he promised he would.'"

In 1965, a year after his experiences in India, Meier lost his arm in an accident in
Turkey. Some 10 years later, in 1975, he began to release to the world volumes
of the clearest, most unambiguous photos, film, video, sound recordings and even
metal samples of the UFOs, all of which were shown to be free of manipulation,
models, special effects, etc. It must be emphasized that the sheer variety,
quantity - and quality - of Meier's more recent physical evidence exceeded
anything he presented when he had two hands to work with.

I think Mr. Venkatesh would have been very interested to know just how much
"Mr. Edward Albert", aka Billy Meier, has indeed experienced and disclosed to
the world, since their meeting in India, in 1964. And, while he is no longer
amongst us to receive it, we offer our appreciation to him for providing such
rare, historical evidence that at once establishes the truthfulness of Meier's
claims and confronts us with the most important story in human history.

http://theyfly.com/India_1964.html

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?43426-Billy-Meier-and-Ptaah--ET--talking-about-2012....Contact-476-3-2-2009&p=548060#post548060

[OMG]

It would be awesome if you (Bill) could ever interview Billy. And I don't like some things about Billy, such as him basically demeaning any language that isn't German, or closing himself off from interviews anymore, etc.

Also I understand the complaints about Horn's strong devotion and impassioned views. But I also have listened to numerous rebuttals regarding the many "fake" claims and I think Horn wins most of these discussions if you critically examine what's being put forth.

Regardless of any latter year questions of Billy - the early work of his by itself is clearly irrefutable PROOF in my determination. And it should be at the forefront in this genre instead of swept under the carpet as many do.

It really is truly amazing stuff!

p.s. Since Corey Goode spoke of the inner earth beings (http://spherebeingalliance.com/blog/ancient-earth-break-away-civilization-subterranean-council-meeting-ssp-alliance-debrief-part-1.html), among other people, I have often wondered if these weren't the beings that actually contacted Billy with their own hidden agenda's, etc.

[Cidersomerset]

Bill Ryan made a great post above that i think echoes how many of us feel/felt about Meier, but ...
It's possible that billy meier was a lying scam artist fraud from the start. Just sayin'.

Every case is open to being debunked from Roswell to the Phoenix lights , but I like
to look at the secondary researchers and witness's if available. With Billy there a
several reputable people involved that make this such a compelling case imo....

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Wendelle Stevens Team-Jim Dilettoso's Methodology & Testing of Billy Meier UFO Photos


NrV63mZOSp8

This is a extended version of the above presentation....with analysis
of the Phoenix lights phenomennon as well...

F7sZx_bmKTw

These are very good films explaining some of the principles of film analysing,
definately worth adding to your knowledge on the subject imo ...Cheers Steve

[Bill Ryan]

Bill Ryan made a great post above that i think echoes how many of us feel/felt about Meier, but ...

It's possible that billy meier was a lying scam artist fraud from the start. Just sayin'.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HxHt-R687pE

Thanks... I just watched this. Yes, the 'Semjase' photo was clearly a fake :facepalm: , and some of the others (the 'Wedding Cake'! :facepalm: :facepalm:) are patently ridiculous also.

But I'm not sure if the original contact reports can be dismissed on the back of silly photos. There might well be both truth and fakery all blended together in here. As I said above (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?87665-Best-UFO-case-EVER-&p=1030984&viewfull=1#post1030984), this is why people walk away.

I have a friend in Pasadena, CA who spent time with Billy back in the early 1980s, and like Kal Korff, has original material... in her case, she has many boxes of Billy's original notes of his contact experiences. I don't think even Michael Horn knows they exist.

I've never seen them myself, but they would be a researcher's gold mine. She is convinced Billy's stories (at that time) were for real. The stories are different from the photos. But it's very understandable for people to bracket them all together.

Re the 'dinner plate UFOs', here's a real one... taken in Peru in the 1960s. I know the person who took it. It's totally genuine. It's not the same as the Meier photos, but is similar. As best I know, there ARE other photos, from other parts of the world taken by different people, that look very similar to Meier's 'beamships'.

http://projectavalon.net/Peru_UFO_sm.jpg

[Cidersomerset]

Whats interesting about Lee Elders and his team who had no links to ufology either
way and were conducting an investigation into the truth of the case from third
party point of view , still stood by their original findings years later....

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Produced for TNN's American Magazine, this feature looks at the strange case of
Billy Meier, a one-armed Swiss farmer. He reportedly had contact with
extraterrestrials on numerous occasions. Original airdate 6/1989

uecnF71bXc4

Source: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uecnF71bXc4


ubTQswUPt7g

Source: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ubTQswUPt7g


Lee Elders comments at the end of part 2 Lee said that he would not
exchange his experience for a million dollars. But would not also not
take a million dollars to do it all over !! Shows what a profound
experience they all had...

Billy subjected himselfe to scrutiny and passed a lie detector test....

The debunking stuff is fine and all UFO researchers have vids and
critics of their work even our own Bill & Kerry and sure some of the
going ons at FIGU may not be to every ones liking but just to 'trash'
it after all the work by Wendell and others seems a shame imo ......



http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?43426-Billy-Meier-and-Ptaah--ET--talking-about-2012....Contact-476-3-2-2009&p=548064&viewfull=1#post548064

[Cidersomerset]

This is just coincidence I watched Childhoods end and it well worth a watch imo
and posted the Tlr on an Arthur C Clarke thread I did a few months ago and on
it is a contact from his TV show that reported on mainstream TV at the time
about a visit by similar beings that Billy interacted with. They may have been
another group we will never know as there was no conversation involved, but
worth a post as it came up and obviously wants to be included ...LOL

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Re: Arthur C Clarke, Major Wayne Aho + others....Radio show on UFO's..2.May.1958



Very interesting re the High German - I have not watched this yet, so perhaps I should not ask - but is this Althochdeutsch? And, as an aside, how many native English speakers understand "Sir Gawain and the Green Knight"?

You have a point , but I think Reinhold Schmidt has German speaking parents and understood parts
of it ? The point is its 1957 well before Meier went public, though his contact started in the 1940's.
May just be coincidence and a hoax , but its unlikely ? there are many other languages Schmidt
could have chosen , bare in mind Plejaren are telepathic and may have realised he could understand
German as well as English, only a thought.


====================================================
====================================================

This case was on the Arthur C Clark vid above...

UFO ENGLAND DOCUMENTARY Out Of This World Staffordshire 1954

npCZ3W7Qtz4

http://www.paranormics.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/Plejaren1.jpg

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_8RLOdlrA7l4/S5u7j_i-8VI/AAAAAAAAB4Y/RxTHhbt0FWU/s1600/Jessie-Roestenberg.jpg

http://www.latest-ufo-sightings.net/2010/03/jessie-roestenbergs-close-encounter.html

http://alien-ufo-research.com/images/ufo/mexico_pueblo'92.jpg


http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?85224-Arthur-C-Clarke-Major-Wayne-Aho-others....Radio-show-on-UFO-s..2.May.1958&p=998687&viewfull=1#post998687

[Hervé]

[...]

http://projectavalon.net/Peru_UFO_sm.jpg

Re: the above picture, see this other discussion starting here (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?54537-A-very-high-resolution-UFO-photo&p=863723&viewfull=1#post863723) <--- with the main point being that those trees are not native to Peru (any Peruvian on PA to confirm/infirm?)

[Mutchie]

.
I read Gary Kinder's most excellent book Light Years (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0670818860) back in 1988, and it captivated me. I then became extremely interested in Billy Meier's story.

There are a number of early videos he took (all on his own, with his one arm) that look really pretty real — published LONG before any kind of CGI was readily available.

I also talked at length with George Green (see this Camelot interview (http://projectcamelot.org/george_green.html)), who had had personal, highly strange experiences with Billy back in the 1980s — and I had the privilege to meet and talk with Wendelle Stevens, before he died.

I do believe that Billy did had some very genuine contact experiences, back in the early days. Kerry Cassidy and I visited his farm in Switzerland (it was impossible to talk with Billy himself, though, who trusts no-one any more). There's a little barn there turned into a kind of visitor center, with displays of large, high-resolution, early photos that look stunning and impressive... far more so than a small image you might see on a web page.

But there is very compelling (almost overwhelming) evidence that after those early days, he began to fake and fabricate things. Not smart, of course... because it means then all his legitimate material could also be thrown out with the bathwater. (And it has been, by many people.)

And Michael Horn (Billy's professional, full-time paid PR spokesman) does not help. He is (let's put it this way) highly committed to Billy, but he's an unpleasant, ferocious attack dog in defense of Billy's stories, and is almost impossible to dialog with. Almost everyone I know in the UFO community has kind of washed their hands of the whole thing, because it's become so muddy and tainted, and really hard to deal with from an honest researcher's point of view.

Only Billy knows the truth of what really happened. I would love to have interviewed him... and I really tried. In summary: the early evidence way well be largely for real (and is extraordinary). The later evidence is largely not, at the same time as the claims became more and more outlandish and extreme. And if one visits the They Fly (http://theyfly.com) website, you can get lost in all the detail for literally hours and days.

I noted with GREAT INTEREST that Bill's take on Billy the Meier story was EXACTLY what John Lear said to ME about it a few years ago....The early stuff was ALL real but then he made stuff up.

Does this mean Billy ended up with UFO DISEASE ???

[JChombre]

Wendelle Stevens talks on how they - as ufo-investigators on the case, were
watched and followed by the CIA and the international intelligencia, while
scrutinizing this ufo-contact in Switzerland in the 70ths. This while the same hidden
power people ridiculing this, and similar cases to the deceived society.
.


Thank you Cidersomerst for providing video 1/3 of Wendelle Stevens presentation. Enclosed are the other two videos. They are short and they provide the information on how Billy material might have been interfered with.

As several people have mentioned here, Billy Meier early work and information seems to be authentic, and it is.

However, there are a lot of questions about his later work, and the concern is well justified because this information and material was cleverly doctored and falsified by others... perhaps to discredit Billy's work?

The point being made here is that Billy did not falsify or "cooked" his information and pictures, other people did it and put it under his name. Unfortunately, Wendelle Stevens, a man of high integrity, was used without his knowledge in this process.

I am not really into Billy Meier. However, a great deal of his information resonates with me but I am not sure that it is the only authentic info given to us as Michael Horne is saying... But I cannot help wondering what Billy is doing that seems to disturb so many people, agencies...?

Many blessings to you.

JC


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ysHlBT94YUQ

[OMG]

I don't like the title change that admin did....ugh

It's my post...and my opinion that the Meier case is clearly the BEST provable UFO case EVER. It wasn't posted by ME to have a question mark, although people can debate what they like.

Also, I left out Billy's name in the title for reason...for the very fact that it would attract more unbiased curiosity initially by anyone interested in the topic.

[Hazelfern]

I don't like the title change that admin did....ugh

It's my post...and my opinion that the Meier case is clearly the BEST provable UFO case EVER. It wasn't posted by ME to have a question mark, although people can debate what they like.

Also, I left out Billy's name in the title for reason...for the very fact that it would attract more unbiased curiosity initially by anyone interested in the topic.

:clapping: :clapping: :clapping:

silently saying thank you

[Bill Ryan]

I don't like the title change that admin did....ugh

It's my post...and my opinion that the Meier case is clearly the BEST provable UFO case EVER. It wasn't posted by ME to have a question mark, although people can debate what they like.

Also, I left out Billy's name in the title for reason...for the very fact that it would attract more unbiased curiosity initially by anyone interested in the topic.

I changed the title myself: you made the opening post (and thank you! This is a very interesting topic).

But the thread title is the name of the topic, not the name of your post. It's your post, but it's Avalon's thread, you see. After you started it, it's then co-created by all the participating members. It's all a kind of rolling, organic process.

Thread titles need to be searchable, also. And when people look at the new posts list, like a newspaper headline, they need to know what it's about. Like a restaurant menu: you'd be irritated if one item said "Hey, this is really delicious!", but you didn't know whether it was fish, meat or noodles. :)

If it's about Billy Meier, then members and guests need to be able to search for titles containing the word 'Meier'. Or else next year, they'll never find it.

This is also why we change titles that say [something like] Hey, look at this, or This is amazing, or Check this out. They don't help anyone... especially people trying to find stuff years later. And we sometimes add [Hoax] to a title when someone's posted something with all good intentions, but after it becomes very clear to everyone that it's not for real. We did that just recently with the 'Stanley Kubrick' 'confession'.

Regarding the question mark, this thread title is also to encourage discussion. It may be your opinion it's the best UFO case ever (and it may be the most complex and longest running contact case!), but again, the title represents the Avalon thread. It's not an article on your personal blog... do you see?

The above isn't trying to whack you round the head or enforce anything... just explaining as clearly as I can the reasons for what I did and why. The thread is interesting and valuable — and thank you once more! But, in summary, it's Avalon's thread... which you generously started.

:focus:

[Shannon]

Bill Ryan made a great post above that i think echoes how many of us feel/felt about Meier, but ...

It's possible that billy meier was a lying scam artist fraud from the start. Just sayin'.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HxHt-R687pE

Thanks... I just watched this. Yes, the 'Semjase' photo was clearly a fake :facepalm: , and some of the others (the 'Wedding Cake'! :facepalm: :facepalm:) are patently ridiculous also.

But I'm not sure if the original contact reports can be dismissed on the back of silly photos. There might well be both truth and fakery all blended together in here. As I said above (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?87665-Best-UFO-case-EVER-&p=1030984&viewfull=1#post1030984), this is why people walk away.

I have a friend in Pasadena, CA who spent time with Billy back in the early 1980s, and like Kal Korff, has original material... in her case, she has many boxes of Billy's original notes of his contact experiences. I don't think even Michael Horn knows they exist.

I've never seen them myself, but they would be a researcher's gold mine. She is convinced Billy's stories (at that time) were for real. The stories are different from the photos. But it's very understandable for people to bracket them all together.

Re the 'dinner plate UFOs', here's a real one... taken in Peru in the 1960s. I know the person who took it. It's totally genuine. It's not the same as the Meier photos, but is similar. As best I know, there ARE other photos, from other parts of the world taken by different people, that look very similar to Meier's 'beamships'.

http://projectavalon.net/Peru_UFO_sm.jpg


Oh man...imagine being the guy who took that picture! I don't know how I'd react, being that close and just ...there...watching this thing that we have been told doesn't exist. Just you, and that spaceship.

Pretty amazing picture.
Thanks!

[ghostrider]

When you get deeper in the case , the ETs say the human being has an immortal spirit that does not die nor sleep in the deepest sleep, it records thoughts actions and feelings and tells the human being if the thoughts are correct if he/she has learned to pay attention to it. .. the spirit form of Edward Meier they say is very ancient , 9 billion years old, the plejaren follow it wherever it incarnates, they say it has been in our time epoch as Enoch Isaiah Elijah Jeremiah Imannuel Muhammad and BEAM,-Billy Edward Albert Meier ... different personalities but the same spirit form , it always does the same job teaching creational laws to humans ...they say every time in the past the teachings are corrupted by men to control men by religion ... now with the computer age , the teachings are preserved for all time ... Billy is the seventh and final prophet/teacher ... the plejaren say their ancestors were the gods/angels of our past ...

[mahigitam]

Regarding the CIA claims, none other than Lee Elders has debunked Wendelle Steven's claims on CIA and other intelligence agencies stalking them, as Wendelle's own imaginations.
www.billymeieruforesearch.com/wendelle-stevens-claims-on-cia-involvement/

During the Stanton Friedman (SF) and Michael Horn's interview, SF cited the research made by the "Indian guy" while pointing out to Michael Horn that Meier case is far from authentic. Well that Indian Guy is me. I have corresponded with SF and presented by research analyzing - Meier's "genuine" space pictures which EVEN TODAY are being published in contact notes and sold by FIGU, and also the so-called scientifically accurate prophecies and predictions. I presented my research on my website - www.billymeieruforesearch.com.

The verdict is clear - the so-called authentic space photos are crude hoaxes taken from illustrations, spacecraft imagery, NASA documentaries, etc. And also there is not one prophecy/prediction that has been published before the events took place. In fact there is so much of evidence showing that the prophecies/predictions have been inserted or edited, to fit the events.

Debunking Meier's space photos:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r-wISYli9DU

Debunking Meier's prophecies and predictions:
http://www.billymeieruforesearch.com/prophecies-predictions-probability-calculations/#Conclusions

[Precog]

As I have said before. It's a huge red flag that he claimed to be getting information about future events but claimed 19 high-jackers attacked us on 911. I have difficulty believing anything that he has said. It could be a CIA run hoax. I had a discussion with Mr. Horn about this and he became very anger. I wonder why.

[Mike Gorman]

[...]

http://projectavalon.net/Peru_UFO_sm.jpg

Re: the above picture, see this other discussion starting here (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?54537-A-very-high-resolution-UFO-photo&p=863723&viewfull=1#post863723) <--- with the main point being that those trees are not native to Peru (any Peruvian on PA to confirm/infirm?)

You could very well be correct, but if you look at the trees they are arranged in a plantation like formation, so they might be farmed trees - much like we have Scott's Pine plantations...just a thought, no need to consider this devalues the photo.

[Karpos]

[...]

http://projectavalon.net/Peru_UFO_sm.jpg

Re: the above picture, see this other discussion starting here (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?54537-A-very-high-resolution-UFO-photo&p=863723&viewfull=1#post863723) <--- with the main point being that those trees are not native to Peru (any Peruvian on PA to confirm/infirm?)

You could very well be correct, but if you look at the trees they are arranged in a plantation like formation, so they might be farmed trees - much like we have Scott's Pine plantations...just a thought, no need to consider this devalues the photo.

This UFO photo was also said to be from the ufo Hotspot Gulf Breeze, FL ... see if I can find the link

Edit: yea, see that other thread -- http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?54537-A-very-high-resolution-UFO-photo&p=864114&viewfull=1#post864114

I think it's s fake with a fake helicopter in the other photos, done up with strings like billy meier's fakes. Good one, but fake. I think bills friend of a friend lied about it being from peru .

Anyway, I personally can't understand how anyone could believe the billy meier case. If anything, it's the worst most ridiculous case ever. Van Tassel and Adamski are much better, yet with no proof like every other contactee case, unfortunately. You'd think these aliens would choose better ambassadors.

[Cidersomerset]

I'm not sure when this show was aired,( possibly 1983 ? ) Lee does say near the
beginning that five years after the case and there was a lot of interest by various
groups and agencies trying to debunk the story from the start. They play the sound
track of the plejaren craft and also take Q & A's from the audience. There are some
good questions from the callers.

The experience set Lee and his wife Brit on a long time interest into this and
related subjects, so if it was all BS I don't think they would have bothered ?

http://www.leeelders.com/home.html

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Lee Elders The Billy Meier UFO Case...Open minds

uNwrXL3nhbw

Internationally recognized as one of the premiere UFO investigators, Lee Elders
has spear-headed research into some of the most fascinating cases of our time.
Lee spent twelve years as a private investigator for major corporations before
creating his own electronic counter-measure company, Intercep. In 1977, a
retired Air Force Col., asked Lee to look into a UFO contact case. That was the
Billy Meier case, an investigation that spanned three continents, some of the
most secure laboratories in the world and a total of five years. Then in 1991,
Jaime Maussan, a respected television journalist, asked Lee to lead the
investigation into the sightings over Mexico that began with the total solar
eclipse of July 11, 1991. Those sightings and the investigation continue today.


http://www.theufostore.com/UFO-MP3-Audio-Downloads/Lee-Elders-Billy-Meier-case-OPEN-MINDS-mp3-Download/

[sommervr]

I don't think it matters whether BM was contacted or not. Best case scenario he was contacted by a completely ineffectual race of keystone cops. Thanks?

[Mutchie]

When you get deeper in the case , the ETs say the human being has an immortal spirit that does not die nor sleep in the deepest sleep, it records thoughts actions and feelings and tells the human being if the thoughts are correct if he/she has learned to pay attention to it. .. the spirit form of Edward Meier they say is very ancient , 9 billion years old, the plejaren follow it wherever it incarnates, they say it has been in our time epoch as Enoch Isaiah Elijah Jeremiah Imannuel Muhammad and BEAM,-Billy Edward Albert Meier ... different personalities but the same spirit form , it always does the same job teaching creational laws to humans ...they say every time in the past the teachings are corrupted by men to control men by religion ... now with the computer age , the teachings are preserved for all time ... Billy is the seventh and final prophet/teacher ... the plejaren say their ancestors were the gods/angels of our past ...

Ghostrider i find it very interesting that the ET'S tell us we are spiritually immortal BUT is Planet Earth a PRISON PLANET ????????

because time & again i hear about the Domain and the Soul Net which is described like an energy grid they say it surrounds our planet ...

Simon Parkes mentioned this he said when we DIE our soul wants to return to source but it CAN'T it gets CAUGHT in this grid and it is ZAPPED with a huge amount of electro magnetic energy which WIPES OUR MEMORY'S THEN WE START LIFE ALL OVER FOREVER STUCK FORGETTING PREVIOUS LIVES !!!!

Did the Plejaren ever mention any of this to your knowledge ???

Thank you.

[Karpos]

Simon mentioned this he said when we DIE our soul wants to return to source but it CAN'T it gets CAUGHT in this grid and it is ZAPPED with a huge amount of electro magnetic energy which WIPES OUR MEMORY'S THEN WE START LIFE ALL OVER FOREVER STUCK FORGETTING PREVIOUS LIVES !!!!

That sounds so juvenile. I suggest you tell your friend Simon to stop spreading this fearful baseless lie.

For starters, no one know what's happening, but the most spiritually developed humans that have ever lived mystics and saints have never come close to explaining their revelations through heightened consciousness as anything other than humanity being on a wheel of spiritual evolution something so grand that we cannot fully comprehend with our still evolving brains.

Meier's aliens were fools and gave predictions. NO ALIEN CONTACTEE PREDICTION HAS EVER COME TRUE.

For a contactee to be believable these days they would have to preach against predictions.

But let's face it, hundreds of CONTACTEEs have come and gone, from Blavatsky and her Masters, to Corey Goode and the blue birds, with flawed and different narratives about our ancient history and the nature of reality and none of it has been proven true. What it might be is that there are hundreds of crazy people who think they talk to aliens make fake photographs and videos and come on internet sites or just tell random people about their crazy life to gain attention and validation from people who are disenchanted and disenfranchised.

Maybe it's just me who is disenchanted.

[OMG]

I don't think it matters whether BM was contacted or not. Best case scenario he was contacted by a completely ineffectual race of keystone cops. Thanks?

That's hilarious!

...and kinda true from a certain perspective lol...

[OMG]

I don't like the title change that admin did....ugh

It's my post...and my opinion that the Meier case is clearly the BEST provable UFO case EVER. It wasn't posted by ME to have a question mark, although people can debate what they like.

Also, I left out Billy's name in the title for reason...for the very fact that it would attract more unbiased curiosity initially by anyone interested in the topic.

I changed the title myself: you made the opening post (and thank you! This is a very interesting topic).

But the thread title is the name of the topic, not the name of your post. It's your post, but it's Avalon's thread, you see. After you started it, it's then co-created by all the participating members. It's all a kind of rolling, organic process.

Thread titles need to be searchable, also. And when people look at the new posts list, like a newspaper headline, they need to know what it's about. Like a restaurant menu: you'd be irritated if one item said "Hey, this is really delicious!", but you didn't know whether it was fish, meat or noodles. :)

If it's about Billy Meier, then members and guests need to be able to search for titles containing the word 'Meier'. Or else next year, they'll never find it.

This is also why we change titles that say [something like] Hey, look at this, or This is amazing, or Check this out. They don't help anyone... especially people trying to find stuff years later. And we sometimes add [Hoax] to a title when someone's posted something with all good intentions, but after it becomes very clear to everyone that it's not for real. We did that just recently with the 'Stanley Kubrick' 'confession'.

Regarding the question mark, this thread title is also to encourage discussion. It may be your opinion it's the best UFO case ever (and it may be the most complex and longest running contact case!), but again, the title represents the Avalon thread. It's not an article on your personal blog... do you see?

The above isn't trying to whack you round the head or enforce anything... just explaining as clearly as I can the reasons for what I did and why. The thread is interesting and valuable — and thank you once more! But, in summary, it's Avalon's thread... which you generously started.

:focus:

Just so everyone knows...I didn't use the term "thread" but instead used the word "post" as a general expression which most would understand. It's funny and I mention it because I came very close to changing that initially but didn't.

I understand the searchable perspective. Yet the term "best UFO case" is just as searchable as BM, although not as specific from a certain perspective.

The question mark does NOT show MY intent regarding the topic. Although is COULD show the intent of others. However, it is an assumption on YOUR part to speak for others while I was merely speaking for myself, as it should be.

Anyway...thank you for replying. Kindest regards and deepest respect. :)

[ghostrider]

They say the spirit is tied to the planet the body dies on , if our planet were destroyed our spirit form would cluster together and migrate to the neareast life zone , s a greenish mass of energy whih the have witnessed before, our world situation is up to us to fix , our free will , it can remain a prison or become free ... it's up to us ...they brought Enoch here to teach us the laws of creation and how to become free ... as the spirit gains knowledge , we must learn to access the storage banks/energy grid of earth where all knowledge of all lifetimes are stored , the highr your vibration the easier one can acess it , Enoch/nokodemjon can acess the fine matter realm which we would need 58 million years to reach , its why that form seemed like God to. Early man ... 12 billion year ago Enoch merged back with source , only his love for humanity brought him back for a second set of incarnations - 60-80 billion more years ...

[Karpos]

They say the spirit is tied to the planet the body dies on , if our planet were destroyed our spirit form would cluster together and migrate to the neareast life zone , s a greenish mass of energy whih the have witnessed before, our world situation is up to us to fix , our free will , it can remain a prison or become free ... it's up to us ...they brought Enoch here to teach us the laws of creation and how to become free ... as the spirit gains knowledge , we must learn to access the storage banks/energy grid of earth where all knowledge of all lifetimes are stored , the highr your vibration the easier one can acess it , Enoch/nokodemjon can acess the fine matter realm which we would need 58 million years to reach , its why that form seemed like God to. Early man ... 12 billion year ago Enoch merged back with source , only his love for humanity brought him back for a second set of incarnations - 60-80 billion more years ...

This reads so interesting when your a bit high and just watched star wars for the second time in the same weekend. I'm not high on drugs, high on movie theater popcorn ;) ;)

[Cidersomerset]

This seems the most recent bit of vid I can find of Billy on U'tube from
earlier in 2015 , and he is answering a few questions about IS and
will it escalate into WW1V . He calls it that as historically the first
world war in the modern era was the seven years war fought mainly
between France , Prussia , Russia , Austria and the UK in Europe ,
North America , India and other clashes around the globe. He also
makes ref to the mil ind complex, and the pressure being put on
Russia by the EU and US. No mention of the Plejaren in this clip.

http://sevenparallel.com/Seven%20Years%20War.jpg

http://sevenparallel.com/era_display_get.php?fname=Seven%20Years%20War



New Corroboration of Billy Meier's Prophetic Information

d7ce5dFaSa0

Published on 3 Aug 2015

Billy Meier's prophetic information, dating back to 1951, is - again - proving to be
unerringly correct, unfortunately. Further information pertaining to this video is in
the blog "Former US Treasury Official Confirms Billy Meier's Prophetic Information",
at www.theyflyblog.com.To see the latest independent analysis, confirming the
ironclad authentication of Meier's WCUFO photos and video, click here:

http://www.tjresearch.info/Zahi_WCUFO...

See www.theyfly.com and www.theyflyblog.com for further information.

[Cidersomerset]

This is a old presentation by Randy Winters about the Billy Meier contacts,
I have not watched this for several years and is a good recap of some of
the overall events. There are good and debatable aspects from both points
of view and is a interesting account imo . The newer 'They Fly documentary'
has a different feel to it....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D4x0DfgZ1RA
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Extraterrestrial Life Proof - The Pleiadians Billy Meier Documentary

f1z4oT7Pc8g

Published on 29 Jan 2014


Extraterrestrial Life Proof - The Pleiadians: Billy Eduard Albert Meier reports regular contacts
with extraterrestrials he calls the Plejaren. Meier claims that the Plejaren look similar in
appearance to humans from Northern Europe, and states that the Plejaren homeworld is called
Erra. It is located in a dimension which is a fraction of a second shifted from our own dimension,
about 80 light years beyond the Pleiades, an open star cluster. The Plejaren were given the
name Pleiadians by Meier up to 1995.

[ghostrider]

I havent seen star wars but, if you take the time to read the plejaren contact reports #5 , #9, #251 you will learn things that will blow your mind, and make star wars look like the stone age ... please visit the future of mankind , and theyfly.com , also they will link you to over 73 years worth of face to face speaking with people not born on earth , it will give you earth origins, universe origins, ancient history, the future , genetics, geology, science, medicine, life , death, the afterlife, other humans in the cosmos, other humans in other Universes, other humans in other dimensions, astrology, and so much more , too much to list ...the plejaren are trying to help us evolve, if we can leave behind the age of beliefs, and enter the age of knowledge ...

[Mutchie]

Thank you for the reply Ghostrider i noted on another thread that YOU seemed to be well versed in the Contact notes ... I think it's VERY HARD to refute the evidence when you realise all the events & predictions have come to pass just as they said they would Mike Horn likes to list these as the year it was predicted & the year it happened who could know all these things ???

Karpos it was Simon Parkes the MP who mentioned the GRID on one of his more recents talks ... I have heard it before though -

You are totally entitled your opinion my friend if you think it sounds juvenile i just wanted to know more about this information it seem's similar to the Alien interview story with the nurse who interacts with the GREY it mentions this grid THANKS FOR POSTING OMG.

[mahigitam]

My research on Meier case and interview were covered by Top Secret Writers on their website, here:
http://www.topsecretwriters.com/2015/11/billy-meier-ufo-research-group-keeps-the-fraud-under-wraps/

[Atlas]

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/44908464/avalon/people/myer-anim.gif

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/-HcDTE1W6Dk/maxresdefault.jpg

http://www.schwaebische.de/cms_media/module_img/735/367765_1_mediagalleryDetail_367765_1_org_B82583721Z.1_20110608132817_000_GEGHE6JK.2_0.jpg

http://www.tagesspiegel.de/images/new_statesman_dpa/6782860/2-format43.jpg

[Nick07]

I think maybe he got tired of the attention and the crap that has been coming from him may just be his way of securing a life away from all the attention. This has made family life hard for guy from what I gather.

[syrwong]

This seems the most recent bit of vid I can find of Billy on U'tube from
earlier in 2015 , and he is answering a few questions about IS and
will it escalate into WW1V . He calls it that as historically the first
world war in the modern era was the seven years war fought mainly
between France , Prussia , Russia , Austria and the UK in Europe ,
North America , India and other clashes around the globe. He also
makes ref to the mil ind complex, and the pressure being put on
Russia by the EU and US. No mention of the Plejaren in this clip.

http://sevenparallel.com/Seven%20Years%20War.jpg

http://sevenparallel.com/era_display_get.php?fname=Seven%20Years%20War



New Corroboration of Billy Meier's Prophetic Information

d7ce5dFaSa0

Published on 3 Aug 2015

Billy Meier's prophetic information, dating back to 1951, is - again - proving to be
unerringly correct, unfortunately. Further information pertaining to this video is in
the blog "Former US Treasury Official Confirms Billy Meier's Prophetic Information",
at www.theyflyblog.com.To see the latest independent analysis, confirming the
ironclad authentication of Meier's WCUFO photos and video, click here:

http://www.tjresearch.info/Zahi_WCUFO...

See www.theyfly.com and www.theyflyblog.com for further information.

They are doing the opposite to what Meir advised, provoking Russia like mad. Knowing that Meier has a high degree of accuracy, the world war 3 (in the conventional terminology) is highly likely. We could only hope that Merkel has an awakening of some sort, to suddenly change course, even though she was described as a puppet to the US. It does appear that Germany is an important piece in the chessboard of world politics.

[WhiteLove]

The Edward Meier UFO/ET contact case has always been a bit confusing to me. Is it possible that this man truly has been in contact with beings not from earth?

If what he claims is true it is a Close Encounter of the Fifth kind - A UFO event that involves direct communication between aliens and humans. This type of close encounter was named by Steven M. Greer's CSETI group and is described as bilateral contact experiences through conscious, voluntary and proactive human-initiated cooperative communication with extraterrestrial intelligence.

I found this video quite fascinating. 👽

z16B3IP1Bbg

What's your take on this? What's the credibility of Billy and what do you make of these contacts, what does is claim about ET life and its relationship to humans on earth? How does this fit together with everything else, any deceptions/conspiracies involved in/around this case? Please post your thoughts/comments...

At 01:04, please notice the frequencies that were recorded from one of the crafts that Billy captured on camera and on the voice recorder. Please notice that it appears the craft has a series of weird looking loudspeakers around it. This in combination with the recording indicates that the craft might operate acoustically, it might sit inside of some kind of controllable acoustic chamber that is forming some kind of energy field around the craft and it might be in some kind of vibrational resonance with earth when it is in the anti-gravity levitation state.

[Eram]

At 6:50 into this docu, Billy States about his first communications with the Pleyaren woman: "You see,... The first she told me... I shall get the most, best pictures of UFO's what has ever happened on earth."

Excellent!!!
So, show me the film footage where Billy waves of the pleyaren woman into the landed UFO after which it takes of into the air.

Oops, there is no such footage, which leaves me disappointed and skeptical about the whole thing.

If it was the aim of these so called pleyaree's to deliver 100% proof of their existence, surely they would have encouraged Billy to take more convincing footage then only the vague distant shots of a flying disc?

[DNA]

There is no straight line in this story. There are convoluted twists and turns, and the truth is there and then it is not there.

But, in so far as real life is concerned, life is rarely black and white.

People want a straight answer, people want to hear either a damning story so as to be able to make a negative judgment and walk away, or bubbling praise giving irrefutable doubt that Billy is telling the truth.

In so far as where I've gone in this journey, I've heard both.
So I doubt certain aspects about Billy, but I also believe he has indeed been contacted by beings in flying saucers.

So here is the question I think is important to ask.
Do we trust the beings who talk to Billy and say fabulous things?
Do we trust the intent of the beings who are talking to Billy?
My honest answer is I do not.
There is truth, but, that truth could be woven with falsehood in order to weave disinformation.

I'll tell you one of the things that causes me to take pause.
There is are 8mm films of saucers shot by Meier.
They seem legit. But there is something about these craft that looks crude and rudimentary. Not fake, but also not of a species thousands of years in advance of us. The craft seem to hover on an energy field kind of haphazardly.
I can't help but to think of the Antarctic Germans who did in fact have rudimentary flying saucers from what we are told.
I've got to say, the fact that you have white, Nordic looking aliens with blond hair and blue eyes and speaking German on top of it.
I have got to say, I think this points to the Germans living in Antarctica not Plieadian/Plejarans but home grown Germans who moved to the South Pole with Nazi Bell equipment after world war II was lost.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OJjwlsnpnNY

[Sunny-side-up]

So, show me the film footage where Billy waves of the pleyaren woman into the landed UFO after which it takes of into the air.

Oops, there is no such footage, which leaves me disappointed and skeptical about the whole thing.

Eram even if such vidio was shown most would still not believe it while others would debunk it.


I believe otherworldly events took/take place around Billy.
I have seen UFO's many times now in my life, some encounters very solid and up close but when I think back I still bout my memories, so out of the normal day to day reality we live, it's like was it a dream Doh (I do know they where not dreams BTW, just saying as an example of the illusional minds we have).

[Eram]

So, show me the film footage where Billy waves of the pleyaren woman into the landed UFO after which it takes of into the air.

Oops, there is no such footage, which leaves me disappointed and skeptical about the whole thing.

Eram even if such vidio was shown most would still not believe it while others would debunk it.


I believe otherworldly events took/take place around Billy.
I have seen UFO's many times now in my life, some encounters very solid and up close but when I think back I still bout my memories, so out of the normal day to day reality we live, it's like was it a dream Doh (I do know they where not dreams BTW, just saying as an example of the illusional minds we have).

The question is not if there would still be skeptics if clear and up close footage was shot (that would go without saying), ... The question is: If it was the aim of the ET's to deliver the strongest kind of proof about their existence possible (Billy suggests so himself), then why would they only go as far a some distant vague footage?
I think it is a legitimate question.
After all, the world is full of fantasts who have duped others millions of times.


Please don't think that my doubt about the Billy Meyer case is analogue for not believing in ET life forms or that earth is visited by them. I saw a UFO when I was about 7 years old and there are a host of other reasons that I believe in them.

It's just that Billy Meyer paints a picture in which he should have been able to collect a multitude of more convincing evidence about their existence then he did and I find it very suspect.

Almost all hoaxers try to convince their audience with vague evidence, playing into the will and hope of their victims to draw them into their circle of manipulations, so I think it is only wise to be extra critical when people make bold claims and in this case... things don't ad up for me.

[ghostrider]

The PTB have tried to kill him 23 times, Wendell Stevens was visiting when one attempt was made... There are also 100 witnesses to the craft, and witnesses who have seen Ptaah, and Asket, one of those witnesses is a UN diplomat... Predicting future events for over 70 years , and science proves his predictions every day... Ears to hear but some do not hear just like in the days of long ago...

[ghostrider]

Here is one nugget that king James didn't want known, replace the word ( spirit \father\god ) with consciousness... My consciousness doeth the works, the power of spirit inside every human being, consciousness, you don't need a king or a god, or a priest, or a savior, you have every thing you need inside your mind , it's up to you to develop it through meditation and hard work along with life experiences, and guidance from those who are more advanced in knowledge of spirit power...

[ghostrider]

The greys are androids created by human beings from the zeta reticulum star system... The human form is the most common form in the universe, there are reptoid type beings, human beings with wings, and fish like human beings among several other types listed, the Plejaren give a very detailed account of these advanced human beings with wings etc ...

[ghostrider]

Dude Edward has 1200 photos taken prior to photo shop and computers... When computers came out he stopped taking photos... One shot the ship is hovering 15-20ft over his van in his front yard... Another shot has two ships over his house... And he has video of quetzals' ship parked in a tree and he walks into the shot and goes back out and zooms in... Not to mention metal samples, sound recordings, 100 witnesses of the ships ...

[Shannon]

There is no straight line in this story. There are convoluted twists and turns, and the truth is there and then it is not there.

But, in so far as real life is concerned, life is rarely black and white.

People want a straight answer, people want to hear either a damning story so as to be able to make a negative judgment and walk away, or bubbling praise giving irrefutable doubt that Billy is telling the truth.

In so far as where I've gone in this journey, I've heard both.
So I doubt certain aspects about Billy, but I also believe he has indeed been contacted by beings in flying saucers.

So here is the question I think is important to ask.
Do we trust the beings who talk to Billy and say fabulous things?
Do we trust the intent of the beings who are talking to Billy?
My honest answer is I do not.
There is truth, but, that truth could be woven with falsehood in order to weave disinformation.

I'll tell you one of the things that causes me to take pause.
There is are 8mm films of saucers shot by Meier.
They seem legit. But there is something about these craft that looks crude and rudimentary. Not fake, but also not of a species thousands of years in advance of us. The craft seem to hover on an energy field kind of haphazardly.
I can't help but to think of the Antarctic Germans who did in fact have rudimentary flying saucers from what we are told.
I've got to say, the fact that you have white, Nordic looking aliens with blond hair and blue eyes and speaking German on top of it.
I have got to say, I think this points to the Germans living in Antarctica not Plieadian/Plejarans but home grown Germans who moved to the South Pole with Nazi Bell equipment after world war II was lost.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OJjwlsnpnNY

It's def and option.

[Inversion]

Billy was given metal samples and by the next morning they had dissolved. If their ships are separated from the intended user they'll autodestruct on an molecular level. It's my opinion that they used him to tell the TPTB if they were to steal their beam ships they would disintegrate making any effort to do so pointless.

[Bill Ryan]

Billy was given metal samples and by the next morning they had dissolved.

I'd not heard that before. Not saying it's not accurate, but can you give a source for the info? THX

[Inversion]

I believe I heard that on a C2C episode. Semjase told him they wanted to steal their craft possibly for reverse engineering.

The analysis of the extra-terrestrial metal samples:
http://www.meiersaken.info/Documentation.html

[DNA]

Billy was given metal samples and by the next morning they had dissolved.

I'd not heard that before. Not saying it's not accurate, but can you give a source for the info? THX



Dr. Vogal was a senior scientist working for IBM.
He did the metal analysis. He developed the metal coating system used for IBM memory in computers. He also specialized in liquid crystal systems.


Jim Delatosa contacted Dr. Vogal with the Meier metal sample.


This information was placed in the Wendelle Stevens Book about Billy Meier.


This documentary is really good. It's the actual analysis done by Dr. Vogal from back in 1985. The production value leaves something to be desired but it's the real deal. And worth watching.


From memory I remember reading in the UFO CONTACT FROM THE PLIEADIES book that Dr. Vogal was impressed that the metal was a combination of metal that took on the look of a crystline structure. He was of the opinion that the process to make this alloy must have been done in a zero gravity environment.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0cFr3zzFeYk
0cFr3zzFeYk


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W_NNFL_6evQ
W_NNFL_6evQ


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XxJc80DEWhE
XxJc80DEWhE


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vbLMCg0Vo4E
vbLMCg0Vo4E


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CNZZNRTvm9g
CNZZNRTvm9g

[onawah]

That confirms what Simon Parkes said in one of the recent discussions with JayPee on WolfSpiritRadio, that the UFOs Meier filmed were German made.


There is no straight line in this story. There are convoluted twists and turns, and the truth is there and then it is not there.

But, in so far as real life is concerned, life is rarely black and white.

People want a straight answer, people want to hear either a damning story so as to be able to make a negative judgment and walk away, or bubbling praise giving irrefutable doubt that Billy is telling the truth.

In so far as where I've gone in this journey, I've heard both.
So I doubt certain aspects about Billy, but I also believe he has indeed been contacted by beings in flying saucers.

So here is the question I think is important to ask.
Do we trust the beings who talk to Billy and say fabulous things?
Do we trust the intent of the beings who are talking to Billy?
My honest answer is I do not.
There is truth, but, that truth could be woven with falsehood in order to weave disinformation.

I'll tell you one of the things that causes me to take pause.
There is are 8mm films of saucers shot by Meier.
They seem legit. But there is something about these craft that looks crude and rudimentary. Not fake, but also not of a species thousands of years in advance of us. The craft seem to hover on an energy field kind of haphazardly.
I can't help but to think of the Antarctic Germans who did in fact have rudimentary flying saucers from what we are told.
I've got to say, the fact that you have white, Nordic looking aliens with blond hair and blue eyes and speaking German on top of it.
I have got to say, I think this points to the Germans living in Antarctica not Plieadian/Plejarans but home grown Germans who moved to the South Pole with Nazi Bell equipment after world war II was lost.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OJjwlsnpnNY

[onawah]

This is the discussion I mentioned in the preceding post:
Q4ewp6uWhLk
In the post here: http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?1420-Simon-Parkes-about-Mantis-Aliens-Reptiles-and-other-aliens.&p=1056711&viewfull=1#post1056711
I outlined what was discussed including this:

Here's a little breakdown on what was discussed in the round table. ( I still have an hour to listen to, but will have to finish this later.)
About 28 minutes in, some discussion ensues which may explain why the Billy Meier case has been a false flag event, why it's been debunked so much, even in UFO circles, how it may have been linked to the Nazis and the Vrill and how ET races sometimes pretend to be something other than what they are.

[DNA]

This is the discussion I mentioned in the preceding post:
Q4ewp6uWhLk
In the post here: http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?1420-Simon-Parkes-about-Mantis-Aliens-Reptiles-and-other-aliens.&p=1056711&viewfull=1#post1056711
I outlined what was discussed including this:

Here's a little breakdown on what was discussed in the round table. ( I still have an hour to listen to, but will have to finish this later.)
About 28 minutes in, some discussion ensues which may explain why the Billy Meier case has been a false flag event, why it's been debunked so much, even in UFO circles, how it may have been linked to the Nazis and the Vrill and how ET races sometimes pretend to be something other than what they are.


Just to clarify I didn't get my hypothesis from Parks or Collier.
And I certainly don't consider my hypothesis any more than an educated guess given the material we are all exposing ourselves too.
That being the case, if I can come up with this all by my little self, then I'm sure Parks and Collier can as well without having any information from off world sources.


And where as I try and keep a certain air of detachment from Meier, he has hands down the absolute best argument for an off world interaction.
Where as with Collier, I do not believe anything that comes out of his mouth. Nothing he has stated ever vetted as relevant, much less worthy of off worlders haven taken the time to travel here and speak to humanity. I'm of the opinion Collier has doctored the material of others (Meier included) and packaged it as his own.
Given my gut feeling for Collier lends me to believe he is an opportunist and of the lowest rung in the UFO field.


I gave Parks a fair shake and listened to his material, but he has nothing relevant either.
He may be an abductee, but I do not put him in the category of contactee. And don't even get me started on his take that he is the reincarnation of King Soloman. I'm sure you know what I'm talking about.


All in all, it's almost never a good idea to use data from folks who consider themselves contactees in so far as it relates to Meier, because none of them can even come close to measuring up and as such there is almost always going to be jealousy and envy within and encapsulated in their messages.

[KiwiElf]

I stick to the original books and interviews which came out in the early 70's before the trolls and debunkers began interfering. The Japanese made several documentaries at the time. The whole Billy Meier case has been very muddied ever since... IMO. (And based on those earlier doco's, for what it's worth, I believe Billy is/was genuine)

[uzn]

Remember that when these photos were taken there was no Photoshop. Only thing one could do was take scissors and cut a picture, paste it ontop another and photograph again
Some of Meier´s Photos (around 1976):
http://www.figu.org/ch/files/images/f0171.jpg
http://www.figu.org/ch/files/images/f0187.jpg
http://www.figu.org/ch/files/images/f0187au.jpg
http://www.figu.org/ch/files/images/f0200.jpg
http://www.figu.org/ch/files/images/f0200au.jpg
source:http://www.figu.org/ch/ufologie/strahlschiffe

There is this Video on Youtube "Ufo Base in Brazil" which shows exactly the same Ufos like Meier but the speaker says thats the german afterwar Ufos.
I have no Idea if the Video is legit.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m0z1qEnJwHg
Picture with more detail from first scene (0:01)
http://www.inoyrazum.narod.ru/photo/fullsize/131a.jpg
same houses:
http://br.reocities.com/CapitolHill/8167/morton2.jpg
That´s at 6:05 with a bit more detail:
http://webspace.webring.com/people/bu/um_7153/sau.gif

33343

Basically the same Ufo´s as seen above in the Billy Meier pictures!
Are they Germans or Pleyades ??? Or maybe they just happened to buy their crafts at the same manufacturer ???

[uzn]

Remember Photoshop came into the hands of people around 1985 !!! Before that Photomanipulation was mostly archived by scissors.
http://www.sightings-design.co.za/blog/wp-content/uploads/2008/07/ps-1.png

Here´s my favorite Photoshop Easteregg ;)
http://bild-akademie.de/blog/wp-content/uploads/2015/02/k_25_beta.jpg
they killed it with the Version CS5. It shows The allseeing Eye and Merlin ;) The Developers of Photoshop knew that they were kneedeep into magic and mass manipulation. Just thing about it: You work on different levels. U use a magic wand to select stuff. There is even a magic lasso. One can fabricate the pictures others have in mind with it. ;)

[Eram]

There is this Video on Youtube "Ufo Base in Brazil" which shows exactly the same Ufos like Meier but the speaker says thats the german afterwar Ufos.
.....
Basically the same Ufo´s as seen above in the Billy Meier pictures!
Are they Germans or Pleyades ??? Or maybe they just happened to buy their crafts at the same manufacturer ???

Ar least with German afterwar ufo's, the recount of Billy's first contact with the being from the ufo would make more sense.


At 6:50 into this docu, Billy States about his first communications with the Pleyaren woman: "You see,... The first she told me... I shall get the most, best pictures of UFO's what has ever happened on earth."


Now we are not dealing with an ET race that is hell bent on getting the truth out there about their existence, but more probably a "psy op" by nazi's from South America who are prepping Billy for who knows what.

[onawah]

My posting of any info from Parkes or Collier doesn't mean that I believe everything they say either, but I think it may be a useful process to examine what they say and determine what we can about why they might be saying it and if what they are saying might be true, largely because there are so many gullible people taking what they say at face value, and that can be a very dangerous situation.
It's tempting to believe some of what they say--that there are benevolent ETs/EDs who are here to help make everything OK for example, and that can be very dangerous, obviously, because it can make people complacent and dependent.
If they are being "handled" or controlled, with or without their knowledge, and if they are being used to make real contactee stories seem disreputable , it would be useful if we can determine why and by whom and shed some light on that.

(Of course, on the other hand, it might be a total waste of time and designed expressly to keep us from engaging in other, more useful tasks.
I waver between the two hypotheses quite a bit...)

Kerry expressed it nicely here: http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?89566-WARNING-To-ALL-Keepers-of-The-Royal-Assets-from-Kameran-Faily-21-March-2016&p=1061261&viewfull=1#post1061261

"So pay attention. Stop assuming that I agree with my witnesses number 1. And 2. stop assuming that ANYONE — regardless of which so-called lofty Angelic, ET, Channel, Elohim, Deity or Avatar they claim to speak for and be in contact with has the god almighty TRUTH. We all have a direct connection with Source / The Force or the Creator. As such be careful who you listen to. Because in spite of our birthright connection to source, many are deceived, mind controlled or simply being controlled and many don’t know it! Many sources of info are heavily infiltrated and purposely deceptive. Many are deluded. Some people have good sources and even their good sources may be misled on a higher level. Every whistleblower and source I deal with has both truth and falsity in their info. Some are extremely well intentioned. Sometimes the most well intentioned are the easiest ones to mislead. Because they see what they want to see and are blind to the rest. Many of the Camelot whistleblowers who worked or still work for the military or secret space program or Illuminati secret societies or others are also trained from a young age to view reality in a certain way. And they have assumed a belief structure (without questioning) without even knowing it."

"For example, some of the whistleblowers I have dealt with are brilliant in the truth they provide while at the same time firmly believing in nonsense"...etc.

and

"I suggest that people stop looking for the final word or truth to be given to them on a silver platter without questioning the source and their sources and the sources behind them! Stop believing in the lofty notion of the the sources behind sources and think for yourself. Use your direct channel to the highest source and your own higher self. Stand back and observe. Blindly follow no one and question everything. Stay alert and awake. It’s a grand experiment and you are here NOW."

And Araucaria's post gives a lot of food for thought as to how we can engage in this process most intelligently: http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?1420-Simon-Parkes-about-Mantis-Aliens-Reptiles-and-other-aliens.&p=1059762&viewfull=1#post1059762


Can you tell us where you got the info that Parkes said he is the reincarnation of King Solomon?
I don't recall him ever saying that, in fact, I think he denied it, though I know he did claim that he was the original Adam hybrid genetically engineered by the Annunaki.
As for Meier, from what I have seen of his material, my own take is that he filmed UFOs, but they were such primitive UFOs that it seems likely they were German made.
And as for fantastic claims, didn't he actually claim he is the reincarnation of Jesus?


This is the discussion I mentioned in the preceding post:
Q4ewp6uWhLk
In the post here: http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?1420-Simon-Parkes-about-Mantis-Aliens-Reptiles-and-other-aliens.&p=1056711&viewfull=1#post1056711
I outlined what was discussed including this:

Here's a little breakdown on what was discussed in the round table. ( I still have an hour to listen to, but will have to finish this later.)
About 28 minutes in, some discussion ensues which may explain why the Billy Meier case has been a false flag event, why it's been debunked so much, even in UFO circles, how it may have been linked to the Nazis and the Vrill and how ET races sometimes pretend to be something other than what they are.


Just to clarify I didn't get my hypothesis from Parks or Collier.
And I certainly don't consider my hypothesis any more than an educated guess given the material we are all exposing ourselves too.
That being the case, if I can come up with this all by my little self, then I'm sure Parks and Collier can as well without having any information from off world sources.


And where as I try and keep a certain air of detachment from Meier, he has hands down the absolute best argument for an off world interaction.
Where as with Collier, I do not believe anything that comes out of his mouth. Nothing he has stated ever vetted as relevant, much less worthy of off worlders haven taken the time to travel here and speak to humanity. I'm of the opinion Collier has doctored the material of others (Meier included) and packaged it as his own.
Given my gut feeling for Collier lends me to believe he is an opportunist and of the lowest rung in the UFO field.


I gave Parks a fair shake and listened to his material, but he has nothing relevant either.
He may be an abductee, but I do not put him in the category of contactee. And don't even get me started on his take that he is the reincarnation of King Soloman. I'm sure you know what I'm talking about.


All in all, it's almost never a good idea to use data from folks who consider themselves contactees in so far as it relates to Meier, because none of them can even come close to measuring up and as such there is almost always going to be jealousy and envy within and encapsulated in their messages.

[Shannon]

This is the discussion I mentioned in the preceding post:
Q4ewp6uWhLk
In the post here: http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?1420-Simon-Parkes-about-Mantis-Aliens-Reptiles-and-other-aliens.&p=1056711&viewfull=1#post1056711
I outlined what was discussed including this:

Here's a little breakdown on what was discussed in the round table. ( I still have an hour to listen to, but will have to finish this later.)
About 28 minutes in, some discussion ensues which may explain why the Billy Meier case has been a false flag event, why it's been debunked so much, even in UFO circles, how it may have been linked to the Nazis and the Vrill and how ET races sometimes pretend to be something other than what they are.


Just to clarify I didn't get my hypothesis from Parks or Collier.
And I certainly don't consider my hypothesis any more than an educated guess given the material we are all exposing ourselves too.
That being the case, if I can come up with this all by my little self, then I'm sure Parks and Collier can as well without having any information from off world sources.


And where as I try and keep a certain air of detachment from Meier, he has hands down the absolute best argument for an off world interaction.
Where as with Collier, I do not believe anything that comes out of his mouth. Nothing he has stated ever vetted as relevant, much less worthy of off worlders haven taken the time to travel here and speak to humanity. I'm of the opinion Collier has doctored the material of others (Meier included) and packaged it as his own.
Given my gut feeling for Collier lends me to believe he is an opportunist and of the lowest rung in the UFO field.


I gave Parks a fair shake and listened to his material, but he has nothing relevant either.
He may be an abductee, but I do not put him in the category of contactee. And don't even get me started on his take that he is the reincarnation of King Soloman. I'm sure you know what I'm talking about.


All in all, it's almost never a good idea to use data from folks who consider themselves contactees in so far as it relates to Meier, because none of them can even come close to measuring up and as such there is almost always going to be jealousy and envy within and encapsulated in their messages.

I really like your post. I have to agree on a lot of it. Let me ask this, did Simon really say he is King Solomon reincarnated?
*facepalm

Please can you post the source of where he said this. I need to hear it! Thank you in advance :)

Onawah, I posted before I read the thread and you asked the same question :)

[DNA]

Now we are not dealing with an ET race that is hell bent on getting the truth out there about their existence, but more probably a "psy op" by nazi's from South America who are prepping Billy for who knows what.

Hi Eram

I love our pursuit here and our logical jumps we are making.

I might add this though.

Those Germans who were once Nazis may not be Nazis anymore.

For me being a Nazi is a philosophy. And I don't know if the folks we have seen appearing for Meier, if they are in fact Germans from the South Pole would in fact be Nazis anymore.

If the Admiral Byrd story is true, and he attacked those Germans within the Antarctic base and suffered a complete and utter defeat at the hands of those Germans doesn't that tell you something?

It tells me something.
It tells me that those same Germans only defended themselves, and they did not turn around and attack the United States to teach us a lesson for attacking them. They apparently let it go. As they did being defeated in the second world war.

Are the Germans in Antarctica contacting other space faring peoples? Have they learned things from those peoples?
Did the Germans in Antarctica begin archeological excavations of the facility they took over, only to find incredible secrets both historical and spiritual?
I think it possible.
The folks talking to Meier displayed a deep and benevolent personality. As if they were aware of certain truths the rest of the world is not privy to.

So as to summarize, if there are indeed Germans living on/in the South Pole I do not think or know that we should still refer to them as Nazis.

Also, if in fact they are the ones who visited Meier I do not know if we would refer to it as a psyop.
There is a lot of good information in the Meier material.
And by good I mean prophetic in terms of get our act together or else.
It could be that they indeed wished for the world to hear a message but that they did not wish to disclose or reveal their own situation in our world.

I for one to not feel as if I have been mislead in my readings of the Meier material.
And I still feel I would recommend the reading of it to others.

Just my 2 cents.

[onawah]

DNA, can you tell us where you got the info that Parkes said he is the reincarnation of King Solomon?
I don't recall him ever saying that, in fact, I think he denied it, though I know he did claim that he was the original Adam hybrid genetically engineered by the Annunaki.
As for Meier, from what I have seen of his material, my own take is that he filmed UFOs, but they were such primitive UFOs that it seems likely they were German made.
And as for fantastic claims, didn't Meiers actually claim he is the reincarnation of Jesus?



Now we are not dealing with an ET race that is hell bent on getting the truth out there about their existence, but more probably a "psy op" by nazi's from South America who are prepping Billy for who knows what.

Hi Eram

I love our pursuit here and our logical jumps we are making.

I might add this though.

Those Germans who were once Nazis may not be Nazis anymore.

For me being a Nazi is a philosophy. And I don't know if the folks we have seen appearing for Meier, if they are in fact Germans from the South Pole would in fact be Nazis anymore.

If the Admiral Byrd story is true, and he attacked those Germans within the Antarctic base and suffered a complete and utter defeat at the hands of those Germans doesn't that tell you something?

It tells me something.
It tells me that those same Germans only defended themselves, and they did not turn around and attack the United States to teach us a lesson for attacking them. They apparently let it go. As they did being defeated in the second world war.

Are the Germans in Antarctica contacting other space faring peoples? Have they learned things from those peoples?
Did the Germans in Antarctica begin archeological excavations of the facility they took over, only to find incredible secrets both historical and spiritual?
I think it possible.
The folks talking to Meier displayed a deep and benevolent personality. As if they were aware of certain truths the rest of the world is not privy to.

So as to summarize, if there are indeed Germans living on/in the South Pole I do not think or know that we should still refer to them as Nazis.

Also, if in fact they are the ones who visited Meier I do not know if we would refer to it as a psyop.
There is a lot of good information in the Meier material.
And by good I mean prophetic in terms of get our act together or else.
It could be that they indeed wished for the world to hear a message but that they did not wish to disclose or reveal their own situation in our world.

I for one to not feel as if I have been mislead in my readings of the Meier material.
And I still feel I would recommend the reading of it to others.

Just my 2 cents.

[DNA]

I really like your post. I have to agree on a lot of it. Let me ask this, did Simon really say he is King Solomon reincarnated?
*facepalm

Please can you post the source of where he said this. I need to hear it! Thank you in advance :)

Onawah, I posted before I read the thread and you asked the same question :)

I chose to side step most of this hoopla, as such I'm not a great source for this, but given you have posted your question maybe some other folks will PM you and Onawah with a more complete version of the answer.

I will not implicate anyone or name names. But from what I've been told, and I absolutely believe these folks who have come forward, during therapy/counseling sessions that usually start over the phone I've been told that this individual will tell folks he is the reincarnated King Soloman and that they and I say they for there have been several, that they were one of King Soloman's wives and in order for their therapy/counseling to be complete they will need to see said councilor, in person.

This in itself wouldn't be so bad I suppose but the individual is then told that in order for their healing to be complete they need to take it to the next level. I'll leave it to your imagination in so far as what that entails, but being as they used to be married and all they are informed that this should be okay.

These people who have come forward to tell their stories have been attacked by said person verbally and threatened with a law suit should they continue to tell their story/stories. I've seen all of this transpire in real time in another forum (not Avalon) designed so as to try and be this forums sister. The forum is referred to as TOT or The One Truth.

[Biff]

Meier hoaxed too many photos for me to put any credence into his story. I don't understand how anyone could believe him beyond just the hoax photos.

"Billy Meier claims that he was a former Assassin, a hired paid murder and thug, yet these ETs chose him as the most spiritually evolved person on the planet to be Earth's sole ambassador to the stars??? It doesn't make a lot of sense. In fact, it doesn't make any sense and is completely contradictory and illogical."

http://alienscientist.com/meier.html

[onawah]

Thanks DNA. And as someone more familiar with the case than I , has Billy Meier claimed that he is the reincarnation of Jesus?

[Biff]

Thanks DNA. And as someone more familiar with the case than I , has Billy Meier claimed that he is the reincarnation of Jesus?

http://theyflyblog.com/2011/07/22/regarding-billy-meier-as-the-reincarnation-of-jesus-christ/

[DNA]

And as for fantastic claims, didn't Meiers actually claim he is the reincarnation of Jesus?

He did. :facepalm:

But to Meier's credit he supports reincarnation and states that the current bible is a crude bastardization of the original document. And you want to know something crazy?

Meier collaborated with an archeologist to uncover the original book of Mathew.

The book is called "The Talmud of Emmanuel".

And just to say it to say it, it appears vested interests have worked to suppress the work. For instance the archeologist who worked with Meier to uncover it was killed.


Just saying. This causes you to wonder. Is Meier making this stuff up and if so not only is he the worlds best UFO model maker and photographer he is also a world class forger of ancient documents and he happens to be able to speak ancient Aramaic and he is a creative author capable of writing a plausible story about Jesus Christ.

[onawah]

Well, to put in a nutshell what Kerry has said about so many whistleblowers, it's often a case of six of one and half dozen of the other.

There have been private conversations conducted on Avalon about some of Simon's private sessions with women that I have been privy to, but none of the claims that were made against Simon have been substantiated with any material proof, to my knowledge.
If someone recorded a Skype session during which he made claims about being King Solomon reincarnated, or had recorded inappropriate interactions with counseling clients, that would certainly be different and should be aired, but I can certainly see why few if any would want to expose themselves in that way, too.

[DNA]

Meier hoaxed too many photos for me to put any credence into his story. I don't understand how anyone could believe him beyond just the hoax photos.

Meier has been the subject of intense attention from the intelligence communities of atleast the United States and Switzerland.
A US intelligence operative came forward and wrote a letter to Wendelle Stevens in so far as how he and the intelligence community interfered with photos and negatives. This interference included by was not limited to the "taking" of the best photos and replacing them with "fakes". Wendelle Stevens being himself a retired Colonial from the airforce I could understand such a person taking the time to write him.

Here is the document in full as Wendelle Stevens placed it in the book "UFO CONTACT FROM THE PLIEADIES".



taken from-

Contact from the Pleiades



**********

LETTER FROM A SECURITY AGENT:



Wendelle C. Stevens

Lt. Col., USAF (Ret)

Care of:

GENESIS 3 Publishing Inc

P.O. Drawer JJ, Munds Park.AZ 89017

Dear Mr Stevens

A friend of mine, Tom Farr, dropped off a copy of MESSAGE FROM THE PLEIADES. I found it very Interesting. Tom had previously given me another book about Billy Meier, which was also interesting.

The following is information you might find interesting. The American Government did what could be called an extensive soft touch investigation of Billy, when he first attracted public attention to himself, to find out if the contact was in fact for real. The Decision was in his favor. It was extensive investigation, because of the unusual features in Billy´s case.

Billy, as an individual, and a citizen of another country, had an American intelligence gathering organization look him over from ass hole to appetite. He passed the inspection rather well, but has not gone off the deep end, as predicted by the personality profile done on him. It of course goes without saying that he had the intelligence gathering community of his own country look him over.

The American investigation was of the light touch vanity (forfenglighet), meaning use no force, make no scars, and leave no traces of the investigation. Which is to say play tourist, pack a camera, and take a lot of pictures, tell a lot of lies, and ask a lot of questions. Host countries(vertslandets-) intelligence systems get pissed(lei), if they catch you screwing off on their turf. So do not accuse us of any break-ins, and that type of thing, because it happened back in the days when Billy was in fact liberal with what he gave away. Your book indicates that he has up-graded his record keeping since the early days.

In the other book on Billy there was a big deal about the films, and having them tested. In one specific incident the film tested was believed to be a copy, and not the original negative as Billy thought. Sorry about that. The way we got copies of Billy´s pictures was by paying off the man who handled the film processing for Billy. The man simply ordered a second set of pictures for us, and a second copy of the negatives, at an attractive profit, and the man often had copies made for himself. In a couple of cases we took the original copy of the negative, for the type of lab checks that you wanted to make.

We also sent some garbage film through to the same processing company by the same store, under Billy´s name, to keep the boys doing the film processing honest. We did establish that there was a little hankey pankey going on at the processing plant, and/or in the mail some place. Someone else was getting off with the first copy of the negatives most of the time. Several times, according to the experts, our copy of the negative would be about the fifth one.

All intelligence communities are well aware that vast volumes of bull **** comes and goes in the UFO contactee game, as part of turf(dekke) but pictures make strong evidence, which is almost impossible to fake. Because pictures are the quickest way to find who in fact is telling the truth, they often get stolen. Or, why screw around with the bull ****, when the proof is in the film. The Intelligence gathering people are also aware of how to intercept mail, and bribe (bestikke) store owners. When the bribe was set up we did not know how agreeable Billy was going to be about passing out samples.

In the book you touched on one of the most important of all things about UFO´s, and may not have realized the true importance, to the history of UFOs, in what you said.

Page 219; "The visitor anticipated............and they immediately associated them with the Anti-Christ, of Christian literature and wanted nothing more to do with the situation."

The problem that Billy had with Karl Veit of Wiesbaden, is the key to understanding most of the American Government and Western Europe Government´s approach to UFO´s. In 1945, when it was first proven that UFO´s were real from space, operated by intelligent being, most of whom where human in form, the American Government did a soft touch check to see what the great unwashed public would say, and how the public would respond to UFO´s, and space people, if the President informed the public over National radio.

The results of the investigation would truly frost a thinking mans´ balls. The public´s response was all bad. 97% of the public took one of two approaches. Shoot first and ask questions later. Or call the UFO´S agents of the devil, the prince of the power of the air, the ant-Christ, and set up an even worse situation, where UFOs would became a real negative religious issue. What was surprising was the response of the Religious leadership, which was by far worse than the general public´s response. It could only be called grim news.

The science community showed no leadership at all, just a super case of stupidity, and prejudice.

As you might guess, the original investigations were by military men, under orders from General Marshal, under the direction of the President. And if you know your military men, finding one who wants to get into a fight with the preachers, over what is, or is not the Anti-Christ, when neither the military man, nor the preacher know a hell of a lot of factual information about either the Ant-Christ, or the UFOs, would be a lot like sending a blind person out to spot UFO´s. Just as soon as the blind man spots the first UFO, the military will get into the fight with the preachers over the Anti-Christ.

To say that the military seriously avoided the potential conflict with the religious community would be an understatement. To say that the military community successfully avoided a fight with the religious community over UFOs would be an accurate observation. To say that the military was real damned sneaky (fordømt lusket) about how they informed the public about UFOs, would also be an accurate observation.

The military mind will draw conclusions that the religious mind will not. The military mind quickly figured out that if the UFO´s wanted to take over the world, they had the speed, science, and fire power to do so. Hence, the military concluded UFO´s were working by other rules. The general nature of the rules the individuals in the UFOs would be working under, could be projected, based on previous contact records, however skimpy the records.

In other words, the military figured it was a safe assumption that the UFOs would not radically change their actions in modern times, but would stick with the casual and miss system of the past.

The military mind drew one conclusion. The single most important thing to do in the situation it was in, namely sitting on some hot, highly controversial information, was to keep the general public from a bad response by controlling the public´s response to UFOs. In other words keep that damned religious mentality out of the issues involved, as long as possible.

But, do not ever say that the military never did anything about informing the public about the existence of UFO´s. That will mean you have not figured out the methods used by the Government to spread the word about UFOs. You might say the military took the Bible´s advice about not to let the left hand know what the right hand is doing.

The Military pulled the very same trick that Moses pulled, when he did not like the attitude of his troops, after crossing the Red Sea. He took the time to grow a new batch troops, who´s response and thinking was more to his liking. And that is what the military did about UFO´s.

The military also found a problem as bad, or worse, than the religious mind. Have you have ever noticed, Scientist are about as bad as the preachers, when it comes to UFO´s? Especially in the old days. What you missed is the little detail that Scientist, of the old pre-UFO school, got their basic concept of the Universe from an insane preacher: A Catholic Pope. That basic concept is the idea that man is alone in the Universe, and the only intelligent life in the universe.

Going into the dark ages all societies leaving records, in any amount, left some kind of UFO record. Those that left verbal histories left verbal records of UFOs. In effect it was known prior to the Dark Ages that man was not alone in the Universe, that other intelligent beings were out there screwing around. Even the damned cave and rock drawings show UFO activity.

The Greeks and the Romans also knew that the world was round. The Greeks had even tried to measure the size of the earth using wells and sun light.

The insane Catholic Pope decided that he was the most important thing in the Universe, and that the Universe revolved around him. The basic idea that the world was flat was imposed upon the world by an insane Pope, which in effect made the earth the Center of the universe.. That Pope also expanded on the powers of the Pope, in effect saying that he was not only at the center of the Universe, he was all that was good, smart, and holy at the center of the Universe.

That pope also pitched the idea that man was alone in the Universe. That of course left the Pope the smartest man in the Universe. When the Science-Religion fight of the early science days started, science in general won out. The one idea that the Scientist took from an insane Pope, which they loved as an idea, and used as there very own idea, was the idea that man is alone in the Universe. The idea that man is alone in the Universe, if valid, would the make Scientist the smartest, and best educated beings in the Universe. The Science community´s response to the coming of UFOs, and the possible drop in status from the smartest thing in the Universe, was somewhat worse than the religious communities response to UFOs. UFOs rather obviously, put the modern scientist in the position of being a backward person in knowledge, on a backward world. And farther insulted the scientist, by not bothering to make any contact with him. Few, if any of the scientist involved gave up their status, as the smartest and best educated beings in the universe, willingly. Most of the older ones died with that idea in their head. The idea, man was the only intelligent life in the Universe.

The existence of UFOs - truly lowers the status of the religious and scientific leaders of the world. They resisted such a lowering in their status, particularly the scientist. And here I should clear something up. Mention the word intelligence gathering community, and most people go into some kind of potty training shock, and think they have gone back to messing their pants, and are about to be caught at it. Doing what is called spying on people is an expensive and time consuming operation, generally involving a lot of people. It is surprising how many people think that they have some kind of secret, that makes them worth spying on. Casual surveillance, or simple information gathering, can be done much cheaper. The total amount of information needed, to make a high degree of accuracy decision, about someone like Billy, is in fact not as much as a person would imagine.

In effect, in the early days, if you showed up at Billy´s place, knowing enough about good manners, to bring as much food as you eat, wash as many dishes as you get dirty, and just help around the house, or yard a bit. It was possible to get all the UFO information desired from Billy, and be treated as a respected guest.

Looking into Billy with a professional eye will quickly show that there are a couple of things, which are not "totally normal" for this type of contact. The screw ball hours, and the many changes in location, make it somewhat different from most contacts, which generally proceed on a casual, but regular bases, with some consideration for the contactee. Billy probably holds the record for more bad weather contacts than anyone else. His case has some screwball features, but it had some very good pictures.

In a shared UFO information pool with other Countries, including India, it was noticed that Billy got his contacts whenever a woman, the Indians were watching, was missing. It was speculated that Billy´s female contact could have been one of two women that the India authorities were watching. One was a tall dark haired woman with a very fair completion who, according to what the Indians could find out had been working an area for about 200 years. The other woman was a short, some what dumpy blond, with kind of a flat face. Every time the dumpy blond left India, Billy had a contact. Because the Indian surveillance was of the soft touch type, and far from complete, nothing was ever established. But, for a period of about 2 to 3 years there was a one-to-one relationship between the blond leaving India and Billy having a contact.

And there is something else you might figure out, or work on. It is Billy stumbling onto Military men looking at his contact sites. For all their science, the clowns in the UFO do not always work out every thing to perfection.

As a military officer you were exposed to a few classes in physics. As the book says about the rocks and the gold, the physics are the same, this world, or some other. That means that what is known, about physics here, will also apply up there.

The UFO is has a power source, which is obviously related to gravity, and electro magnetic properties of physics. That is all packed into a small space and effects the world around it. Add to that some cloaking device, and a few stray things, and you have a ship, which will give off a few things in the line of radiation. If the dogs can spot the UFOs, then use dogs, which we did around some military and science bases In the early days. If the TV flutters when one comes by, start from there for making a detection device.

It logically follows that about the time that the Governments got into the business of knowing about UFOs, they also got into learning how to detect the things, when they flew by. And it was a dog, who´s action told us that flying saucer had clocking devices. It did not turn out to be all that hard to make a detection device. The Swiss Government has such devices and obviously uses them.

The last time I had anything to do with such devices, which was a long time ago, and the devices where physically very large because their radios had vacuum tubes, they could be rigged to do several different things, and the American Government was screwing with a model that would give the general direction the UFO was traveling. By now they could be the size of a pack of smokes, and give direction along with the make and model of the UFO. me In the late 50s we could define between about four types of UFOs based on how they effected our devices. If I remember some of the information coming out of Billy´s area, the DALs would normally send out a couple of other ships to scout the area, some time several days in advance, before the contact ship showed up. At that time the devices the Swiss had, could tell the difference between the two types of ships normally used. It could also tell the difference between several of the small ball-shaped probes that might be sent out.

I know it to be a fact that the Swiss Government has contact with Space people. But, like all such contacts, the restriction on who knows about it comes from space. The Swiss in fact probably have the best contact of any country in the world. But, that is speculation on my part.

And here I might should add something. Within the Governments of the world, how many I do not know, but based on the patterns, probably most of the reasonable governments, there has been contact from space. But, within any government there will exist two possible sets of information. Those who study UFOs, from the ground looking up, and trade some types of information some times, and those who are in the direct contact position. The two are not necessarily the same person, or department.

I know it to be a fact, having talked to a man who made the trip with him, that Ike had dinner on a space ship. I also know that the Queen of England has been on a space ship, once for medical treatment.

You mentioned something in passing that was interesting. It was your being "spied" on. I have no idea as to who is doing what to whom in your case. But, I do know that there was once a proposal put out to step on UFO investigators, and contactees a little bit, to keep the field from expanding too much, so the real contacts would not be lost in the pure bull ****.

As some one who has been in government, you can probably spot the conflicting, and over lapping authorities, that tend to keep showing up in cases like your self. You never out right ask the question, "what the hell´s Naval Intelligence doing in UFOs, but if you do, they were the "initiating authority" in the solution to the problem of the old FOO Fighters of WW2, and the boys who proved UFOs were from space. Once an Intelligence gathering community gets the initiating authority status in a field, especially if the job is dumped onto them, they are damned hard to pry out of that field.

Within the structure of the American UFO community there are a lot of stories running around. If you ever have the time and the chance, or inclination, you might look up the one piece of semi-hard evidence about a crashed UFO. It is the Brownsville, Texas saucer, which was a very old case. Dating back to right after WW2.

That ship came wobbling by Army Air Force base going about ten miles an hour. They first picked it up on radar, when It was about 40 miles away, which gave them vast amounts of time. Then with field glass as It approached, and finally as a visual. They had enough time that they were able to get a chase plane up in the air to follow the saucer to where it crashed, about ten miles deep in Mexico. Their first action was to get a parachute rigger into a plane, and jump him out over the crash site with a stencil and a can of Red Paint, to mark USAAF on the side of the saucer, so we could claim it was ours - in case the Mexicans showed up.

That ship was dragged back to the US by a cat. It left one hell of a skid trail. From the ground the skid trail can not be seen, because the government paid some Indians $5,000.0O0 to replant the ground. and hid all traces of that drag trail. But it can be seen from the air.

If seen from the air, it will be a very straight line that is almost due North and South. At the South end of the skid trail, there is an East-West gully, and just South of the gully is a small ridge, or very little hill. The small hill has a north south ridge on it. The saucer came to rest on the East side of that ridge up against the slope of the hill, or at the base of the very little hill.

Because the drag trail could be seen from the air the Indians were hired to make other trails on the ground, as a confusion factor. The true drag trail is the only straight one in the group.

This letter is long enough. Lots of luck with what you are doing.

Respectfully .....................(name deleted)








"Billy Meier claims that he was a former Assassin, a hired paid murder and thug, yet these ETs chose him as the most spiritually evolved person on the planet to be Earth's sole ambassador to the stars??? It doesn't make a lot of sense. In fact, it doesn't make any sense and is completely contradictory and illogical."

http://alienscientist.com/meier.html

From what I've heard he only hunted down the worst kind of murders, rapists and serial killers.
I personally won't hold that against him.

[Biff]

And as for fantastic claims, didn't Meiers actually claim he is the reincarnation of Jesus?

He did. :facepalm:

But to Meier's credit he supports reincarnation and states that the current bible is a crude bastardization of the original document. And you want to know something crazy?

Meier collaborated with an archeologist to uncover the original book of Mathew.

The book is called "The Talmud of Emmanuel".

And just to say it to say it, it appears vested interests have worked to suppress the work. For instance the archeologist who worked with Meier to uncover it was killed.


Just saying. This causes you to wonder. Is Meier making this stuff up and if so not only is he the worlds best UFO model maker and photographer he is also a world class forger of ancient documents and he happens to be able to speak ancient Aramaic and he is a creative author capable of writing a plausible story about Jesus Christ.

We're supposed to to take billy meier's word about finding the scrolls, where this man hoaxed photos and proved his dishonesty...

"Some questions are pertinent to this find story:

The location of the cave is not given. Why?

Why are there no records of the alleged excavation, and no information about what finds were made and how (in what scientific way) they supported the genuineness of the alleged scrolls?

Why are we not given any information about Rashid? What was his full name? Where was he ordained? Under which bishop did he serve as a priest? The churches keep records which should verify at least that he existed.

The letter from Rashid speaks of him travelling with his family. Where are they today? They ought to be able to verify some of the information about him.

At which university did Rashid learn Aramaic? Universities keep records, so we should be able to verify not only that Rashid existed but also what subjects he studied.

How did Rashid get to know Eduard Meier? Why did he select Meier and no-one else as his coworker in the manuscript publishing?

Since he had the scrolls for 11 years, why did he not make a single photograph or xerox copy of them?

How did “the church” and the Jews find out about his manuscript find?

How could the “church” or the Jews know that the scrolls contained material that would be damaging to their religions, when not an iota of the material had been published and the only two people who had seen the scrolls were Rashid and Meier?

Is it consistent with what we know of church and Israeli behaviour in other cases when faced with other manuscript finds, that they try to suppress them or murder the finders?

The answer to all these questions is simple and obvious. The cave, Rashid and the scrolls never existed."

https://questionyourreality.wordpress.com/2008/05/11/the-talmud-of-immanuel-is-a-hoax/

http://www.robertmprice.mindvendor.com/reviews/meier_jmmanuel.htm

[Biff]

I look at Billy Meier like a Blavatsky figure. Geniuses, but pathological liars. Anyway, I didn't know about the Talmud until today, so I find this thread interesting.

[Cidersomerset]

Billy Meier, born February 3, 1937, is a citizen of Switzerland where they speak ,
German,French and Italian in the different cantons that make up the Swiss federation.

A farmer born in the town of Bulach in the Swiss Lowlands, Eduard "Billy" Meier's
claimed his first extraterrestrial contacts occurred in 1942 at the age of five with an
elderly extraterrestrial human man named Sfath. Contacts with Sfath lasted until
1953.

http://www.crystalinks.com/billy_meier.html

http://www.meiersaken.info/images/Asket1964.jpg
Askets ship 1964

http://www.meiersaken.info/UFO_case.html

If the German NAZIS had this tech in 1942 the war would have been over before
the US war machine was able to turn the tide , which became the Mil ind complex
Eisenhower warned about.

Billy also said when they researched the German language to speak to him they
were using a 'high German' dialect .But most communication came from telepathic
or information downloads.

I don't know all the ins and outs of Billys story but the early material and
investigation seems genuine to me. Of course it could be hoax , but I don't get that
vibe. Billy will be probably leaving this plane in the next decade or so and
it will be interesting if we get real undisputable disclosure about the Plejaren
before he goes. Many others say disclosure has already happened unofficially and
ET has always been here and probably had a hand in creating homo sapien sapien,
( us ) from earlier indigenous hominoid mixing with their DNA.

There are many directions you can go as there are now many researchers on
the various themes that we are not alone in the universe and never have been.
I have contradicting views on this subject depending on whose material you
read/watch and quote. But I am pretty sure we are not alone and never have been,
Can I prove that ? no but I cannot prove a lot of things but I 'believe' they are
probably true given the amount of witness and research coming to light......

[Biff]

I have contradicting views on this subject depending
on whose material you read/watch and quote. But I
am pretty sure we are not alone and never have been,
Can I prove that ? no but I cannot prove a lot of things
but I 'believe' they are true......

I get that. I get that a lot, where when some one tries to debunk a contactee, you get the "What? You don't believe we are not alone?!" response. That's not how it should work. I can believe in life outside earth, and intelligent life having influence on earth, without having to believe every contactee case out there, especially one as flawed and exposed as Billy Meier.

[DNA]

And as for fantastic claims, didn't Meiers actually claim he is the reincarnation of Jesus?

He did. :facepalm:

But to Meier's credit he supports reincarnation and states that the current bible is a crude bastardization of the original document. And you want to know something crazy?

Meier collaborated with an archeologist to uncover the original book of Mathew.

The book is called "The Talmud of Emmanuel".

And just to say it to say it, it appears vested interests have worked to suppress the work. For instance the archeologist who worked with Meier to uncover it was killed.


Just saying. This causes you to wonder. Is Meier making this stuff up and if so not only is he the worlds best UFO model maker and photographer he is also a world class forger of ancient documents and he happens to be able to speak ancient Aramaic and he is a creative author capable of writing a plausible story about Jesus Christ.

We're supposed to to take billy meier's word about finding the scrolls, where this man hoaxed photos and proved his dishonesty...

"Some questions are pertinent to this find story:

The location of the cave is not given. Why?

Why are there no records of the alleged excavation, and no information about what finds were made and how (in what scientific way) they supported the genuineness of the alleged scrolls?

Why are we not given any information about Rashid? What was his full name? Where was he ordained? Under which bishop did he serve as a priest? The churches keep records which should verify at least that he existed.

The letter from Rashid speaks of him travelling with his family. Where are they today? They ought to be able to verify some of the information about him.

At which university did Rashid learn Aramaic? Universities keep records, so we should be able to verify not only that Rashid existed but also what subjects he studied.

How did Rashid get to know Eduard Meier? Why did he select Meier and no-one else as his coworker in the manuscript publishing?

Since he had the scrolls for 11 years, why did he not make a single photograph or xerox copy of them?

How did “the church” and the Jews find out about his manuscript find?

How could the “church” or the Jews know that the scrolls contained material that would be damaging to their religions, when not an iota of the material had been published and the only two people who had seen the scrolls were Rashid and Meier?

Is it consistent with what we know of church and Israeli behaviour in other cases when faced with other manuscript finds, that they try to suppress them or murder the finders?

The answer to all these questions is simple and obvious. The cave, Rashid and the scrolls never existed."

https://questionyourreality.wordpress.com/2008/05/11/the-talmud-of-immanuel-is-a-hoax/

http://www.robertmprice.mindvendor.com/reviews/meier_jmmanuel.htm

Look, I'm not asking anyone to believe anything. I'm certainly skeptical as well. But there is actually more in the way of proof in so far as Meier is concerned.
Meier published his work in 1975 and Wendelle Stevens hand picked certain aspects of this work and published it in 1982.

Meier was able to make quite a few accurate predictions about the solar system before NASA published any of this details included but not limited to where the largest volcano in the solar system was. Meier also gave the date that the first successful cloning of an animal would take place and named the animal as a sheep.

Meier also made some predictions we seem to be on precipice of.
Meier stated that France and England would be shaken to their very core due to an influx of Muslim immigrants. And that these Muslim immigrants would cause extreme civil unrest and destruction, to the point of threatening those very countries existence. This was written in 1975 and I can't help but to make a correlation with that prediction and the present scenario that is taking place with all of the refugees being placed all over Europe.

Meier also states that Russia will attack and conquer most of Europe while at the same time fighting the US.
He even gives the various weapon types that will be used, and it is scary and now it seems plausible.

So I have to disagree with you on Meier making all of this up, because I just don't see anyone being this smart and or clairovoyant.
Also and this was a big one for me.

Meier predicted an increase in earthquakes due to oil drilling.
Meier stated we would see a large increase in earth quakes due also to earth projects such as the damming of water, the removal of water, oil and minerals from the ground.

There was no scientific papers to approach this subject until 1999.
And these papers did in fact agree with everything Meier stated on this topic.

So add to you list of things Meier would need to be a genius at to include Geology, Genetic Engineering and Sociology.

[Cidersomerset]

I get that. I get that a lot, where when some one tries to debunk a contactee, you get the
"What? You don't believe we are not alone?!" response. That's not how it should work. I can believe
in life outside earth, and intelligent life having influence on earth, without having to believe every
contactee case out there, especially one as flawed and exposed as Billy Meier.

Of course you can believe that , if Billy's story does not resonate or you just
think its BS that's ok and there are many others who feel that, but I still
think there is something to it especially the timing .......

[Biff]

And as for fantastic claims, didn't Meiers actually claim he is the reincarnation of Jesus?

He did. :facepalm:

But to Meier's credit he supports reincarnation and states that the current bible is a crude bastardization of the original document. And you want to know something crazy?

Meier collaborated with an archeologist to uncover the original book of Mathew.

The book is called "The Talmud of Emmanuel".

And just to say it to say it, it appears vested interests have worked to suppress the work. For instance the archeologist who worked with Meier to uncover it was killed.


Just saying. This causes you to wonder. Is Meier making this stuff up and if so not only is he the worlds best UFO model maker and photographer he is also a world class forger of ancient documents and he happens to be able to speak ancient Aramaic and he is a creative author capable of writing a plausible story about Jesus Christ.

We're supposed to to take billy meier's word about finding the scrolls, where this man hoaxed photos and proved his dishonesty...

"Some questions are pertinent to this find story:

The location of the cave is not given. Why?

Why are there no records of the alleged excavation, and no information about what finds were made and how (in what scientific way) they supported the genuineness of the alleged scrolls?

Why are we not given any information about Rashid? What was his full name? Where was he ordained? Under which bishop did he serve as a priest? The churches keep records which should verify at least that he existed.

The letter from Rashid speaks of him travelling with his family. Where are they today? They ought to be able to verify some of the information about him.

At which university did Rashid learn Aramaic? Universities keep records, so we should be able to verify not only that Rashid existed but also what subjects he studied.

How did Rashid get to know Eduard Meier? Why did he select Meier and no-one else as his coworker in the manuscript publishing?

Since he had the scrolls for 11 years, why did he not make a single photograph or xerox copy of them?

How did “the church” and the Jews find out about his manuscript find?

How could the “church” or the Jews know that the scrolls contained material that would be damaging to their religions, when not an iota of the material had been published and the only two people who had seen the scrolls were Rashid and Meier?

Is it consistent with what we know of church and Israeli behaviour in other cases when faced with other manuscript finds, that they try to suppress them or murder the finders?

The answer to all these questions is simple and obvious. The cave, Rashid and the scrolls never existed."

https://questionyourreality.wordpress.com/2008/05/11/the-talmud-of-immanuel-is-a-hoax/

http://www.robertmprice.mindvendor.com/reviews/meier_jmmanuel.htm

Look, I'm not asking anyone to believe anything. I'm certainly skeptical as well. But there is actually more in the way of proof in so far as Meier is concerned.
Meier published his work in 1975 and Wendelle Stevens hand picked certain aspects of this work and published it in 1982.

Meier was able to make quite a few accurate predictions about the solar system before NASA published any of this details included but not limited to where the largest volcano in the solar system was. Meier also gave the date that the first successful cloning of an animal would take place and named the animal as a sheep.

Meier also made some predictions we seem to be on precipice of.
Meier stated that France and England would be shaken to their very core due to an influx of Muslim immigrants. And that these Muslim immigrants would cause extreme civil unrest and destruction, to the point of threatening those very countries existence. This was written in 1975 and I can't help but to make a correlation with that prediction and the present scenario that is taking place with all of the refugees being placed all over Europe.

Meier also states that Russia will attack and conquer most of Europe while at the same time fighting the US.
He even gives the various weapon types that will be used, and it is scary and now it seems plausible.

So I have to disagree with you on Meier making all of this up, because I just don't see anyone being this smart and or clairovoyant.
Also and this was a big one for me.

Meier predicted an increase in earthquakes due to oil drilling.
Meier stated we would see a large increase in earth quakes due also to earth projects such as the damming of water, the removal of water, oil and minerals from the ground.

There was no scientific papers to approach this subject until 1999.
And these papers did in fact agree with everything Meier stated on this topic.

So add to you list of things Meier would need to be a genius at to include Geology, Genetic Engineering and Sociology.

Excellent points, if this is all true, which I believe you. It's just a shame that he either sabotaged himself with fake photos and possibly fake narrative re: the Talmud scroll, or as others suggest, he was targeted to be discredited, which worked for the most part. Thanks

[Cidersomerset]

I just posted this on another thread about possible ET contact
and that's without the Greys and the many others. Which is
why I was referring to who/what/where you read/watch/listen
or research.....

Re: Is Mt Ziel, Australia, The Central Hub for ETs?

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?90153-Is-Mt-Ziel-Australia-The-Central-Hub-for-ETs&p=1063283#post1063283

I can remember a quote from an interview early on either from Coast or
a project Camelot interview that there was several joint ET Human bases
around the world and one was at Pine Gap in the centre of Australia,
described as an ET R & R way station.

Australian Underground Alien Base??

wNjFpU4qHe4

Published on 8 Aug 2013

Could there be an Alien underground Base in the outback of Australia, this video could be proof.


==========================================
==========================================

The day UFOs stopped play......Florance Italy 1954 // UFO Files of the Italian Air Force

http://www.ufocasebook.com/italy1960large.jpg

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?76303-The-day-UFOs-stopped-play......Florance-Italy-1954-UFO-Files-of-the-Italian-Air-Force


==========================================
==========================================

There are other ET races supposedly here.....

XCon 2005 - Charles Hall - The Tall Whites - ET Experiences in the Nevada Desert

http://www.exopoliticsohio.us/images/Tall%20Whites.jpg

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?50137-XCon-2005-Charles-Hall-The-Tall-Whites-ET-Experiences-in-the-Nevada-Desert

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I've been trying to find some mainstream info about the 'Norwegian alians' with 24
teeth ? Its suggested they are related to the Sammi/Lap people of Northern
Scandinavia/Russia. I have not found any mainstream article about human
anomalies such as 24 teeth...

http://www.angelit.net/bilder/galerie/koruissa.jpg

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?50137-XCon-2005-Charles-Hall-The-Tall-Whites-ET-Experiences-in-the-Nevada-Desert

===================================================
===================================================

UK Scientists: Aliens May Have Sent Space Seeds To Create Life On Earth.....Panspermia ?

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?79882-UK-Scientists-Aliens-May-Have-Sent-Space-Seeds-To-Create-Life-On-Earth.....Panspermia

==================================================
==================================================

Default New DNA study shows Humans Bred With Unknown Species

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?74155-New-DNA-study-shows-Humans-Bred-With-Unknown-Species&p=868936&highlight=Lemerians#post868936

[DNA]

A farmer born in the town of Bulach in the Swiss Lowlands, Eduard "Billy" Meier's
claimed his first extraterrestrial contacts occurred in 1942 at the age of five with an
elderly extraterrestrial human man named Sfath. Contacts with Sfath lasted until
1953.

If the German NAZIS had this tech in 1942 the war would have been over before
the US war machine was able to turn the tide , which became the Mil ind complex
Eisenhower warned about.

Billy also said when they researched the German language to speak to him they
were using a 'high German' dialect .But most communication came from telepathic
or information downloads.

I don't know all the ins and outs of Billys story but the early material and
investigation seems genuine to me. Of course it could be hoax , but I don't get that
vibe. Billy will be probably leaving this plane in the next decade or so and
it will be interesting if we get real undisputable disclosure about the Plejaren
before he goes. Many others say disclosure has already happened unofficially and
ET has always been here and probably had a hand in creating homo sapien sapien,
( us ) from earlier indigenous hominoid mixing with their DNA.

There are many way you can go from there as there are now many researchers on
the various themes that we are not alone in the universe and never have been.
I have contradicting views on this subject depending on whose material you
read/watch and quote. But I am pretty sure we are not alone and never have been,
Can I prove that ? no but I cannot prove a lot of things but I 'believe' they are probably true given the amount of witness and research coming to light......

I hear what you say Cider, especially in so far as it relates to Meier's early abductions/contacts.

It does seem that those would have predated a settled Antarctic civilization.

I could offer a plausible stretch and state that the early memories could have been planted by those who contacted him at a later date. But as I remember the early stories, I think there was a local parish priest who Billy confided in and who told Billy not to tell anyone else about the contacts and assured Billy that the beings were benevolent.
It seems like it would be a stretch to state those memories were implanted. Possible but a stretch.

[Cidersomerset]

It does seem that those would have predated a settled Antarctic civilization.

I was thinking about the Ant artic NAZI link and there is a lot of research into that,
the first contact after WW1 was with the race from Aldebaron communicating
Telepathically thru mediums which does have some similarity to how Billy claims
to get his 'down'loads of info.....

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I've been looking thru my thread archives and I know I have posted on this subject
many times but they are probably on other members . A couple below I found
are related though some of the vids have timed out......


Did the Nazis have an atomic weapon? and did they develop a flying saucer to deliver the bomb ?

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?84178-Did-the-Nazis-have-an-atomic-weapon-and-did-they-develop-a-flying-saucer-to-deliver-the-bomb

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The Vril & Thule societies & NAZI UFO's

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?54614-The-Vril-Thule-societies-NAZI-UFO-s

[DNA]

I've been trying to find some mainstream info about the 'Norwegian alians' with 24
teeth ? Its suggested they are related to the Sammi/Lap people of Northern
Scandinavia/Russia. I have not found any mainstream article about human
anomalies such as 24 teeth...

I remember John Keel mentioning the Laplanders in his Men In Black lecture here.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y6BI6ktTp9w I can't tell you where in the lecture he starts talking about them but from memory I can sum it up.

Keel mentions that the folks known as Laplanders where reknown to have some kind of powerful magic back in the middle ages.
And it was also reported at this same time that not a few of the victories attributed to the Anglo leaders of the area was known to be assisted on some strategic level by the Laplanders.

Keel mentions this because when folks are asked to identify the persons from their Men In Black experience when shown men of differing races they almost always find themselves pointing to the Laplander photo in describing the race of the person they met/saw.

Keel then goes on to China, where he talks about how it was known in China that the King of The World lived in the middle of the earth, and that he would often send his emmisaries to the royal courts of China to let his bidding be know. He would always send an envoy of three individuals and there seemed to be much in the way of correlation to connect the two for Keel.

And in running through some information looking for this Keel video I ran into this Billy Meier video.

I thought it was cool. In this interview Billy Meier states in his contact that the Men In Black are indeed Sirian in origin. Now might all of this mean that the Laplanders are Syrian in origin? I don't know, but I find this data correlates well.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-DK6PDLVzGc

[Cidersomerset]

I remember John Keel mentioning the Laplanders in his Men In Black lecture here.

This is same presentation on one vid....

He mentions them twice aprox 7 mins in and again later in the vid
interesting , the whole interview although outdated in some aspects
in others he is quoting memes going on at the time and covering the
period mainly from WW11. He quotes a lot of related material mainly
men in black reports , but other phenomena as well.It does remind
you this has been going on a long time, and many of the cases he
refers to are familiar , Aurora Texas and other news paper ,magazine
articles of strange going on , and sightings.....


vMYorwx_lic


Published on 24 Aug 2014


John Keel Men In Black Lecture 1986
http://www.disclose.tv/forum/video-jo...
John Keel is regarded by many as a pioneer in the field of Fortean studies. He popularized,
and indeed may have created, the terms "Men In Black" and "Ultraterrestrials" but Keel is
most well-known as the main researcher and investigator of the Mothman experiences. He
wrote a number of books including The Mothman Prophecies, Disneyland of the Gods, Our
Haunted Planet and Jadoo.

[mahigitam]

Meier case has been and still is nothing other than a grand hoax. Our recent investigation, at BMUFOR, has conclusively proved that point.

http://www.billymeieruforesearch.com/miscellaneous/as-a-man-stealeth-billy-meier-and-his-stolen-spiritual-teachings/
http://www.billymeieruforesearch.com/miscellaneous/did-billy-meier-plagiarize-his-prophecies-and-predictions/

And here are our earlier investigations:
http://www.billymeieruforesearch.com/photos-and-videos/#Space_and_Time_travel_pictures
http://www.billymeieruforesearch.com/prophecies-predictions-probability-calculations/#Conclusions

[Cidersomerset]

Meier case has been and still is nothing other than a grand hoax. Our recent investigation, at BMUFOR, has conclusively proved that point.

If this is all a hoax and the figment of the imagination of a young 'tear away'
youth , who led the life of a adventurer travelling the world with his imaginary
friends, until losing an arm , marrying and starting a family on a small holding
in Switzerland working the land as well as a job as a security guard. Before going
into any ET or spiritual material.

I think this is pretty interesting in itself. His down loads and multiple visitations
suggest most of the info is not his but given to him either by ET's as he tells us. Or
as many others have over the centuries had information given to them for all
sorts of subjects from religion , scientific inventions and just pleasure from ,
dreams , visions and sub conscious idea's from non-physical on the astral plane or
where ever ?

David Icke has said many times that with all the research he does daily , that when
it comes to writing a book the information suddenly comes to him in the right order
it is supposed to over the past 25 years. It happens quickly he may feel a
new book is due then one day he will get up and the info flows from his sub
conscious directing him to links etc.

He has probably gathered much of the info but not all of it and it difficult to explain.
I think he said Einstein and others just woke up with many of their greatest finds or
inspiration.Was it their own creation ? Help from non - physical ? or Et or some
other download by creators monitoring our evolution. There are always more
questions than answers and with the quantum world being theorised and explored,
reality is not what the current scientific meme suggest.

For me the fact at the atomic level nothing is solid and everything in this reality
is holographic opens up many possibilities and goes for me into the ion material.
This also quotes all different subjects as everything is created by us . The wonderful
human creators , so all knowledge good and bad is created stored in a non -
physical archive ' Guf' these have been quoted by various prophets and religions
over the centuries so Billy spiritual material may well be similar to other sources...

[KiwiElf]

Here's what I gleaned from earlier documentation:

Like Adamski, Meier's camera could only be used with a telescope, which means in order to have faked the photos from the 70's he would have had to use full-size "models" (translate that as at least 36 ft in diameter), on a crane and some how erase the wires holding them. (Same applies to the Adamski photos btw). May I remind readers that the original photos and movie footage from that period have NEVER been proved to be fake, irrespective of the models that were found after the fact (...so what? He made models of what he saw!).

As for the movie footage, it was done on 8mm film (as in TINY frames), impossible to edit pre-Photoshop.

The video footage of one of the saucers, flying in low circles in front of and then BEHIND his house and a tree, which is "disturbed" by the motion, clearly visible in the hard-to-find footage of the period (how convenient).

Professional sound editors who listened to and analysed the recordings of the "saucer sound" could not figure out how it was done.

Billy provided samples of the metal the Pleiadians gave him for a govt lab to analyse; It was made up of many known Earthly elements, and some that were not. Unlike a cake, where you mix many ingredients and get a fairly even distribution, this showed something quite different from our known alloys and unknown at the time. Then the sample "disappeared" from the govt lab, the "proof" lost.

The conclusion was that he had to be the best SFX, modeller, metallurgist and sound editor around at the time (and even today) if they were faked.

Can someone explain that?

[HaveBlue]

'Billy was given metal pieces but by morning they had dissolved'. It all sounds too much like the gangbanksters and Fort Knox who offer up much the same excuses.

Dissolving metals with acids is no mystery anyway, if indeed the story has any merit at all.

As a side note, I find it interesting that both the names Lazar and Meijer are listed as being in the top 13 illuminati bloodline familes.
Lazar (who I believe) from the get go said how much the sport model at S4 looked like the Billy Meijer one.
Perhaps this is all a kind of disclosure of sorts, with each not knowing exactly what part they play.

Truth mixed with lies is probable. So that those who can't handle truth don't have to by force of overwhelming and officially sanctioned evidence and those that can get their head around it and discern wheat from chaff can choose to.
Stan Deyo (very credible IMO) says the tech for UFOs was worked out long before the 70s, back in the 50s, even to the point where Deyos training had him believe he had 'cracked' the secrets to it all himself, subsequently Stan Deyo was shown he had indeed not, but had recalled what he had been entrained with years earlier by way of very fast moving images on a TV screen of sorts.

[Cidersomerset]

Depends who you believe ? Some will say this is proof others will say its BS.

Like the Roswell metal some say its ET , others say its just aluminium foil....

An Analysis of a metal sample from a Plejaren space craft by Marcel Vogel

JwxmRfhptgA

Uploaded on 26 Jan 2007

An Analysis of a metal sample from a Plejaren space craft by Marcel Vogel


=================================================

A longer version with more detail....

1985 - Beamship - The Metal Analysis PART 1 of 5_2.mp4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0cFr3zzFeYk

[Cidersomerset]

inventing the consensus .......segment last approx 25 mins

Aprox 33 mins in Johns intro is very appropriate for this
and most of the threads we enjoy, and he puts it into
words better than I can. Its upto you if you listen to
it all he starts off with another conversation he had
with a mainstream science editor......


Consensus is not just a collection of experts who are all
saying the same thing,thats what many people in media
believe, and some people in the public believe. He said
its a lot worse than that , we invent consensus & I hope
you understand that distinction for its the Key....


yNoQQdhuRqY

Published on 23 Apr 2016

It's Thursday and it's another FADERNIGHT with Jon Rappoport...and we also play
tribute to Prince, who left this Earth earlier in the day...we play some selected
tracks from his last public performance that took place one week earlier at the Fox
Theatre in Atlanta, GA.

[Ines]

Hi Zakky this always polarises opinion , there is interesting plausible material
and some suspect aspects like the afore mentioned photos , some of the models
Billy had made , the ray gun and other bits and pieces. There also is loads of
intrigueing photos film and witness testimony interviews and research by
credible investigators. If, like many you find the case fascinating don't get
drawn in to either extreme side of the debate , until you know more about it,but
follow your own instincts and if it feels it has some merits dip in and out. If not
don't let it bog you down in trying to debunk it as many have tried before.

I think there is something to it and his early material and photos in India look
genuine , so no doubt you will get various responses if this follows other Billy Meier
threads....

Previous thread.....Some of the U/tubes have timed out , but you should be able to
find , refreshed versions.
http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?43426-Billy-Meier-and-Ptaah--ET--talking-about-2012....Contact-476-3-2-2009&p=548060#post548060

Another interesting thread I noticed when I searched for one above...
http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?50137-XCon-2005-Charles-Hall-The-Tall-Whites-ET-Experiences-in-the-Nevada-Desert/page3

Thank you Cidersomerset... this threads you open in 2012, in the SubForum "Future Talk. 2012 and Beyond". are very complete with information about the Billy Meir Case. Lots of evidence, testimonials, photos and videos.... everything is in there ! you did a lot of research.

And many people keep trying to debunk all of that, based on ONE silly thing or another. :facepalm:

I have had read enough documentation to be convinced that BILLY MEIR was authentic, the real thing !
Thank you for all your research work, Cidersomerset.
:thumbsup:

[Ines]

Here's what I gleaned from earlier documentation:

Like Adamski, Meier's camera could only be used with a telescope, which means in order to have faked the photos from the 70's he would have had to use full-size "models" (translate that as at least 36 ft in diameter), on a crane and some how erase the wires holding them. (Same applies to the Adamski photos btw). May I remind readers that the original photos and movie footage from that period have NEVER been proved to be fake, irrespective of the models that were found after the fact (...so what? He made models of what he saw!).

As for the movie footage, it was done on 8mm film (as in TINY frames), impossible to edit pre-Photoshop.

The video footage of one of the saucers, flying in low circles in front of and then BEHIND his house and a tree, which is "disturbed" by the motion, clearly visible in the hard-to-find footage of the period (how convenient).

Professional sound editors who listened to and analysed the recordings of the "saucer sound" could not figure out how it was done.

Billy provided samples of the metal the Pleiadians gave him for a govt lab to analyse; It was made up of many known Earthly elements, and some that were not. Unlike a cake, where you mix many ingredients and get a fairly even distribution, this showed something quite different from our known alloys and unknown at the time. Then the sample "disappeared" from the govt lab, the "proof" lost.

The conclusion was that he had to be the best SFX, modeller, metallurgist and sound editor around at the time (and even today) if they were faked.

Can someone explain that?

Maybe BMUFOR, can explain it. Do you think that might try... mahigitam ...?

[KiwiElf]

To debunk the debunkers even further, I should have also mentioned in the above post that Billy had the use of only one arm? :bigsmile: (it's been stated in the earlier posts but it needs re-emphasizing...): to fake those photos/8mm movies the way I described ie with full size 36 ft diameter models and a crane, would have, in the 70's, been impossible to fake for a film studio of the period, let alone a poor, one-armed farmer achieving it. ;)

I haven't seen any documentation from the original investigations to the claim that the metal samples dissolved; the samples were handed in good faith to a lab to analyse - their findings were that the technology to "fuse" the alloys in that manner was unknown at the time (and may still be); the samples "disappeared" from the lab (which is in the original Japanese video documentaries, along with the saucer-sound analysis; the professional sound engineers couldn't duplicate it)

[Mike Gorman]

Whatever you might think about Mr Meir there are those very good photos he took, and the footage from the earliest contacts which no 'de-bunker' has managed to re-create with their claims of 'trick photography' and 'Miniature trees', NONE of them has credibly presented anything near the same quality, IN FACT THEY ARE LAUGHABLE. Wendel Stevens was no fool, he put Meir's evidence through some pretty rigorous tests, from 3rd party science experts. The results from these earliest evidence examples was 100% genuine. Certainly there have been some odd **** going down, personality cult-ish behaviour. But Billy has certainly not profited very much financially, and in fact has suffered a great deal. There is something very credible and odd about the Billy Meir case, and you have to expect a lot of the usual obfuscation efforts from hostile quarters-and he has his share of enemies, always a sign that there is something threatening to certain people here. I like Billy, but I would like more surety, I think the original contacts were genuine.

[mahigitam]

Maybe BMUFOR, can explain it. Do you think that might try... mahigitam ...?

Sorry, just this day I came across this 7 day old post.


Here's what I gleaned from earlier documentation:
Like Adamski, Meier's camera could only be used with a telescope, which means in order to have faked the photos from the 70's he would have had to use full-size "models" (translate that as at least 36 ft in diameter), on a crane and some how erase the wires holding them. (Same applies to the Adamski photos btw). May I remind readers that the original photos and movie footage from that period have NEVER been proved to be fake, irrespective of the models that were found after the fact (...so what? He made models of what he saw!).

No, Meier's camera's doesn't need telescope at all. And how they likely have been taken, has been demonstrated by Phil Langdon.
www.billymeierufo.com

Meier never submitted any ORIGINALS (films, negatives, slides, etc.) at all. His excuse was that they stolen or exchanged with fakes or simply lost with time. So basically any tests done on the nth generation prints or negatives are useless. It has been reported and concluded by several organizations that Meier's photos are fake. And again Meier has excuse - "MIB/CIA did it".
http://www.billymeieruforesearch.com/investigation-of-others/

Moreover, recently it has been came to light that Wendelle and Elders have allegedly suppressed the negative results of investigation conducted by IPI Laser analysis.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Orig-UnReleased-1980-Stevens-Billy-Meier-UFO-Case-IPI-Laser-Analysis-Photo-Lot-/172295610468?hash=item281d9e6064%3Ag%3AZLYAAOSwzLlXh2n0&nma=true&si=vpQJMssl2JiiguBmoBFWNBIL7rI%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557

By the way did you check our investigation into Meier's so-called authentic space photos:
http://www.billymeieruforesearch.com/photos-and-videos/


As for the movie footage, it was done on 8mm film (as in TINY frames), impossible to edit pre-Photoshop.

The video footage of one of the saucers, flying in low circles in front of and then BEHIND his house and a tree, which is "disturbed" by the motion, clearly visible in the hard-to-find footage of the period (how convenient).

Please refer to the above Phil Langdon's work, who also have demonstrated how Meier might have shot his most likely faked videos.


Professional sound editors who listened to and analysed the recordings of the "saucer sound" could not figure out how it was done.

This is not exactly a sound rebuttal but Langdon and several other sound engineers or technicians (in forums) have pointed out how similar Meier's beamship sounds are similar to known sounds and how easy it could have been faked. So Meier's audio recordings can't be seen as conclusive evidence. Also refer to Langdons site and also that of Derek Barthlomaus' (www.billymeierufocase.com) on this.


Billy provided samples of the metal the Pleiadians gave him for a govt lab to analyse; It was made up of many known Earthly elements, and some that were not. Unlike a cake, where you mix many ingredients and get a fairly even distribution, this showed something quite different from our known alloys and unknown at the time. Then the sample "disappeared" from the govt lab, the "proof" lost.

Pure bull****. Check out our article on this metal samples saga.
http://www.billymeieruforesearch.com/metal-and-crystal-samples/

[KiwiElf]

@ mahigitam

Then I guess you may have missed my earlier post #83 before I'm taken out of context, mahigitam: :)


I stick to the original books and interviews which came out in the early 70's before the trolls and debunkers began interfering. The Japanese made several documentaries at the time. The whole Billy Meier case has been very muddied ever since... IMO. (And based on those earlier doco's, for what it's worth, I believe Billy is/was genuine)

To be specific, the info I refer to in your requoted response, was from the original 70's book, videos and Japanese investigations of that period. Anything after that, I agree with Bill... things got very "muddy" (and I frankly lost interest) :).

That aside, I maintain my stance; that the original 70's material I believe to be authentic.

Thank you for your updates - I have some catching up to do!. :)

[mahigitam]

You guys should check out our recent article on Meier's homophobic teachings:
http://www.billymeieruforesearch.com/miscellaneous/are-billy-meiers-spiritual-teachings-homophobic-part-12/

[KiwiElf]

You guys should check out our recent article on Meier's homophobic teachings:
http://www.billymeieruforesearch.com...hobic-part-12/

Thanks mahigitam. Interesting. And somewhat sad. Not throwing the baby out with the bathwater,..

Advocating or teaching homophobic beliefs is really not very good evidence of an enlightened being or an advanced alien civilisation, is it? STAR TREK is more up with the times! :). Sounds more like it's coming from Meier himself (it wouldn't be the first time a "self proclaimed prophet" begins to mix in their own distorted views regardless of how good their other teachings may be. (Look at Sai Baba!) - This Meier "preaching" nonsense really is becoming a "religion". Next it'll be the old meme that blue-eyed people are superior!)

Religious teachings of any kind have no right to dictate what is "right" or "wrong" regarding a person's sexuality. They are what they are. In any case, the breaking of those outdated homophobic "rules" occurs in every religion. It's a complete hypocrisy. No exceptions.

Any "evolved species" would recognise sexuality - amongst all animal life forms - is what it is. Sexual pleasure has little to do with procreation (otherwise we'd have a real population problem!)

If the truth is dealt with maturely & honestly on that subject (it isn't), it has long been proven (ie Kinsey etc) that bisexuality in varying degrees is actually the larger "norm" (I don't like that word used here... perhaps "most widely practised" is better ;)) with heterosexuality & homosexuality @ either end of the spectrum, clearly witnessed in anything from mice to monkeys & dolphins (& humans). Nobody preached to them what gender they should "do it" with!) :p

(Having now read through your informative posts and links, I'm kinda glad I lost interest in Meier after the 70's mahigitam. It doesn't change my opinion of what he provided at the time. (BTW, the metal sample I refer to was not a filing, it was the size of a small stone. That doesn't appear to be mentioned in the links you provided?).

Whatever he was, I certainly don't like what he has become since.

Beware of ANY self-proclaimed prophets - including Billy Meier!

(My rant for the day!! :sun:)

:focus:

[ALLiTiZ]

Billy Meier is like a real life super hero. What I'd like to say is this... read the contact notes, watch the videos, hear the story. It's the most incredible story I've ever heard. Even if Mr. Meier himself, came out today and said it was a hoax, it would still be the most incredible story I've ever heard.

[DNA]

If Meier's contacts are true (and I lean in that direction) then I wish his contactees would have done a better job of allowing him to get the story out. I ran into the Meier material in 2005, living in AZ, I was able to find a copy of "UFO Contact From The Plieadies" by Wendelle Stevens in a used book shop. The rest of the books I found on line, but I think it helped actually running into the book in a used book store. I think the number 1 problem folks have with Meier is the deal where everything absolutely everthing goes through Meier.
I mean, why couldn't they do a fly by while Meier is giving an outdoors lecture or something?
Or pose in the air behind Meier and let other folks snap a picture of him.
Meier could still be the mouth piece as far as the information is concerned, but it would help if folks could count witnesses to the event other than Meier himself. Confirmation and other folks to correlate there is something going on.
Either those aliens wanted to make the information difficult to accept or they simply do not understand earth humans very well.


Another problem I think folks have with Meier is he is rather doom and gloom.
His prophecies do not read off like a romance novel.
It goes from dark and gloomy to f*cking terrifying.
There is also the message of personal responsibility for one's actions. People do not like hearing that at all. Folks want to hear that the space brothers are going to come down and slap a cosmic band aid on all of our problems. Even I want to hear that.
People do not want to hear problems with over population and the need to keep our numbers in check in so far as the human breeding campaign is concerned.
People want to hear that the princess Samjase is going to kiss us with technology and free energy will solve the problems associated with people, like our pollution of the planet.
No :no: :no:
We do not get the kiss that will turn our frog like society into a prince.
I wish we did though.
For all of the lack of Disney esque feel good themes, I still find myself believing Meier though.
Meier is original in his not offering a quick fix for all of our problems.
And this is probably the number one reason why his material feels genuine to me.

[KiwiElf]

Agreed DNA :) - Oh, I think his contacts were real too (as part of the 1970's stuff). I just think a lot of what he's saying more recently & now is not coming from them - it's coming from him! (including mahigitam's post above @ #122).

You know,.. "God said... blah blah" - I don't buy it ;). I get better "advice" from Bashar... or Gene Roddenberry! (or my inner self???) ;)

Either that, or perhaps the Pleiadians aren't very good role models?

[Cidersomerset]

I was looking for a recent Billy Meier vid , but cannot find one he did say he was
stepping out of the public eye several years ago and has only done the odd
interview since.

Michael Horne has been talking publically about the case since 1988 , almost 3
decades. He is passionate which can put people off ( including me ). In this one he
is more relaxed talking to Kevin Moore of the Moore show , who is quite
knowledgeable in alternate topics ,and he goes thru what he knows about what is
going on now with Billy and goes over some of the background information over
the years. Some of his interpretations resonates with me other I disagree with but
overall interesting.


I'm not sure of the date of the interview it says to 2016 but maybe late 2015 ?
97czD77ghbg
Published on 25 May 2016

[marique3652]

Meier case has been and still is nothing other than a grand hoax. Our recent investigation, at BMUFOR, has conclusively proved that point.

http://www.billymeieruforesearch.com/miscellaneous/as-a-man-stealeth-billy-meier-and-his-stolen-spiritual-teachings/
http://www.billymeieruforesearch.com/miscellaneous/did-billy-meier-plagiarize-his-prophecies-and-predictions/

And here are our earlier investigations:
http://www.billymeieruforesearch.com/photos-and-videos/#Space_and_Time_travel_pictures
http://www.billymeieruforesearch.com/prophecies-predictions-probability-calculations/#Conclusions

The smoking gun for me as far as concluding that he faked a lot of things whether an authentic contactee or not is the photos he presented of his "alien female friends" Asket and Nera. The fuzzy picture that he provided saying it is fuzzy because of alien radiation looks exactly like a press photo of a couple of Golddigger Dancers from the Dean Martin show. Here is the link with the side by side photos...very suspicious if you ask me...It appears that he photographed the tv screen and that is why it is fuzzy, lol. http://forgetomori.com/2009/aliens/asket-and-nera/

[marique3652]

Here is another link that is interesting. I find that the excuses he makes are really unique, and it makes me chuckle. I am not passing judgment, I am more poking fun at he ridiculousness of some of the things he claimed. http://forgetomori.com/2007/ufos/the-billy-meier-hoax-photographs/

[DNA]

Meier case has been and still is nothing other than a grand hoax. Our recent investigation, at BMUFOR, has conclusively proved that point.

http://www.billymeieruforesearch.com/miscellaneous/as-a-man-stealeth-billy-meier-and-his-stolen-spiritual-teachings/
http://www.billymeieruforesearch.com/miscellaneous/did-billy-meier-plagiarize-his-prophecies-and-predictions/

And here are our earlier investigations:
http://www.billymeieruforesearch.com/photos-and-videos/#Space_and_Time_travel_pictures
http://www.billymeieruforesearch.com/prophecies-predictions-probability-calculations/#Conclusions

The smoking gun for me as far as concluding that he faked a lot of things whether an authentic contactee or not is the photos he presented of his "alien female friends" Asket and Nera. The fuzzy picture that he provided saying it is fuzzy because of alien radiation looks exactly like a press photo of a couple of Golddigger Dancers from the Dean Martin show. Here is the link with the side by side photos...very suspicious if you ask me...It appears that he photographed the tv screen and that is why it is fuzzy, lol. http://forgetomori.com/2009/aliens/asket-and-nera/


Here is another link that is interesting. I find that the excuses he makes are really unique, and it makes me chuckle. I am not passing judgment, I am more poking fun at he ridiculousness of some of the things he claimed. http://forgetomori.com/2007/ufos/the-billy-meier-hoax-photographs/


I'm with KiwiElf in so far as I believe he had contact with space faring human types in the seventies, but I believe the contacts were ceased, partly due to Meier being a disappointment. It's obvious Meier got a bit of a God complex, but, I will state this, if any of you have had any kind of UFO contact, it is kind of easy to start thinking you are the chosen one and all. And Meier's contacts were pretty hard core.
Also, and folks really for some reason have a hard time believing this, it appears there were intelligence agencies involved in intercepting film and replacing it with their own. For all the talk of Meier being a master forger, he never developed his own film he always sent it to get developed at a local commercial processor.
Due to this, Meier would get pictures that looked like what he took, but in fact they were staged reprodutions done by intelligence agencies that could be later proved to be fakes when certain things were pointed out, like the Dean Martin Dance Girls.


If you go down the Meier rabbit hole, it will become quite evident there is profound genius there, and if any contact were to be real and continuous, then intelligence agency disinfo would have to enter the equation, because that is what they do. If you do not realize this, you are naïve beyond measure.


No truth will ever be allowed to drip without the taint of Government interference.

[mahigitam]

I notice some here seem to be arguing that the evidence Meier presented in mid to late 1970's was legit but the evidence presented later was fabricated either by Meier himself or by others. We must not forget that the dozens and dozens of damning fake space photos, fabricated prophecies, etc. were there since the beginning of the case i.e. from 1975 onwards. And not to mention the homophobic teachings that were published since 1975.

[Cidersomerset]

Interesting little item do not know when originally aired ?

Jim Dilettoso on Billy Meier's UFO sounds: FOX 10 News

7RBHtJJBqfM

Published on 16 Feb 2015

[Cidersomerset]

Jim Dilettoso Open Minds Radio2009 the Billy Meier parts (1) the other two parts
should run after each other.

Gz4sA1_1YHQ

Jim Dilettoso Open Minds Radio2009 2
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0uz1z5OEIm8

Jim Dilettoso Open Minds Radio2009 3

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sEtEpxs8rCI

====================================================
====================================================

2009 Jim Dilettoso on Open Minds Radio full interview aprox 58 mins they discuss
the Phoenix lights and other topics...

z-eGGkYA33k

[Cidersomerset]

UFOS Robert Dean Billy Meier he did not hoax watch this Ed Walters

8Ab4zwlB9cw

Sound slightly out of cinque
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

This one came on after the above vid ,I have watched this before and
it started as I came back to change it ( I listen to a lot of these vids in the
background while doing other chores around the house )

In the first couple mins Michael is at a radio station and talks about the 1958 letter
Meier sent to world leaders. About WW111 and it talked about the father and son
Presidents that invade Iraq , but goes on to predict what seems to be happening now.
I have heard this before but it seems even more relevant after the posts I put
on the WW111 thread yesterday and current events . This neither confirms or
denies Billies claims , nor that it may play out this way, but I thought it interesting

Speculation about WW111 has been peaking on and off more or less since the
end of WW11 in various wars and flashpoints around the world and conflict
between the US led NATO west and either the USSR now Russia , China
or Iran is also not new, but the current situation in Syria and developments
over the past year does bring conflict between the US and allies with an alliance
of Russia , China ,Iran and possible others feasible. Hopefully this will not happen

This is a good documentary talking about all aspects of Billies life and interviews
with locals giving their views , experiences and UFO sightings related to the case
over the years and much more.

I don't agree with all that is discussed and there are elements to be argued about,
but for all this to be a hoax is hard to believe and much of it seems genuine as far
as I can see. I am not talking about all the teachings and prophecies only that
he and others are telling their 'truths' to what they are talking about and it seems
very plausible to me. I have not met an ET to my knowledge so I do not know
how I would try to tell a story like this if I had.....

D4x0DfgZ1RA
Published on 11 Dec 2014 Though this was made earlier ?

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

https://img.youtube.com/vi/P6y7NwPPGNk/hqdefault.jpg

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[Agape]

Regarding the CIA claims, none other than Lee Elders has debunked Wendelle Steven's claims on CIA and other intelligence agencies stalking them, as Wendelle's own imaginations.
www.billymeieruforesearch.com/wendelle-stevens-claims-on-cia-involvement/

During the Stanton Friedman (SF) and Michael Horn's interview, SF cited the research made by the "Indian guy" while pointing out to Michael Horn that Meier case is far from authentic. Well that Indian Guy is me. I have corresponded with SF and presented by research analyzing - Meier's "genuine" space pictures which EVEN TODAY are being published in contact notes and sold by FIGU, and also the so-called scientifically accurate prophecies and predictions. I presented my research on my website - www.billymeieruforesearch.com.

The verdict is clear - the so-called authentic space photos are crude hoaxes taken from illustrations, spacecraft imagery, NASA documentaries, etc. And also there is not one prophecy/prediction that has been published before the events took place. In fact there is so much of evidence showing that the prophecies/predictions have been inserted or edited, to fit the events.

Debunking Meier's space photos:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r-wISYli9DU

Debunking Meier's prophecies and predictions:
http://www.billymeieruforesearch.com/prophecies-predictions-probability-calculations/#Conclusions


Thank you for coming over and your contribution here , I was about to ask if someone based in India ever investigated Billy Meiers claims and contact . India certainly is an important part to the mystery and has also the longest possible record with both genuine spirituality and miracles and 'fake gurus' and staged evidence of all kinds,

India right after ancient Egypt inherited the core and golden knowledge of both spiritual and material 'alchemy' , knowledge of 'true things' and 'magic arts' so also at all times there were people ( and I'm not referring to the bunch of crude skeptics and debunkers of 20th century ) equipped with diamond like discernment there who were able to see the 'fine line' between 'truth' and 'half-truth'.



I don't want to repeat what's been said in this thread many times yet but from delving to some of his materials and having had close ET encounters myself ( and lived in India for many years ) , it makes sense to me that Billy Meiers ET contacts are/were genuine but quite like most other ET-human contacts fall to the 'human category' of unprovable phenomena ,
the photos do not look real at all to me .

As someone else , right after Bill Ryan commented on this thread , what comes through is that 'Billy' is also human and suffering from 'ufo disease' .

If you ask why an 'ufo disease' and what are its causes I'd say it's because the type of society we commonly find ourself involved with , society who bargains and devaluates anything based on mind and spiritual values alone , society to whom .. at the deep end.. tons of 'fake evidence' represent 'proof of genius' of a man who would be seen as rather disabled nutcase otherwise and never heard and appreciated for his wisdom and knowledge .


...

:angel:

[KiwiElf]

Its always going to be a paradox, particularly when weighing up one set of expert evidence which seems to contradict another.

Then you have the debunkers "debunking" the debunkers. (Let's face it, every conspiracy theory has gone through this from Meier, the TITANIC sinking, JFK, Roswell, global warming, the Moon landings, & 9-11, etc, only adding to the confusion). It becomes more difficult to know who or what to believe.

Next, you have the "one bad potato in the whole bag which makes all the others rotten", too. (Or, "throwing the baby out with the bathwater" = absolutist thinking; it's "this" or it's "that"). We often think it's fake for all the wrong reasons, ie "Meier's photos remain some of the clearest UFO photos ever consistently produced, therefore, they must be fake!"

And sometimes, a pencil is just a pencil (as opposed to a dangerous weapon) - both can be true).

[Cidersomerset]

As someone else , right after Bill Ryan commented on this thread , what comes through is that 'Billy' is also human and suffering from 'ufo disease' .

That was said of Bill Cooper , John Lear and many others especially with
the UFO book and presentation circuits . Everyone always wants more info,
disclosure and proof we are all guilty of that at times. I listened to Randy
Cramer on F 2 B yesterday and that could have come out of a Scy -fy
book, TV or movie.

Capt Randy Cramer
http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?78896-Capt.-Randy-Cramer-s-First-Newsletter&p=1090794&viewfull=1#post1090794

There are many witness's and researchers we can take apart , and trolls,
disinfo and current agents present like Nick Pope and others who are still
openly bound by there security oaths that Nick Freely admits to .

Best UFO cases : Kerry Cassidy interviews Gary Heseltine / Bentwaters 1980 UFO
case. (Nick Pope post].
http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?92347-Best-UFO-cases-Kerry-Cassidy-interviews-Gary-Heseltine-Bentwaters-1980-UFO-case&p=1087420&viewfull=1#post1087420


Then there are many others with contradictory views of ET's intensions and info
from Dr.Jacobs ( abductions ) to Steven Greer ( spiritual ). Stanton Freidman
( the kids have found the matches ) to John Lear life is on every planet in
our solar system. Georgio on Ancient Aliens to Graham Hancock's its previous
forgotten human civilisations and all views and theories in between. Then we have
the mainstream view , move along nothing to see here history is how the academics
says it is.....Gobekli Tepi ? ' cough cough ' we will explain that away as well .

Cataclysmic event 12,800-11,600 yrs ago
http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?92408-Graham-Hancock-TED-Talk-2016-Cataclysmic-event-12-800-11-600-yrs-ago-interviews-presentations

We all want to know if UFO's are real ? and everyone on the forum
must tend to believe they are or they would not be here , unless they
are learning or up to mischief. Billy will not be here much longer so
give him some respect for his contribution whether you believe his
experiances or not. He has certainly made most of us ask questions
on our own journeys......

I don't think its all fake at all , but everyone to there own.

Lee says at the start of the interview says that they gained a lot of enemy's
from the get go , because they were at odds with the UFO community
which has been infiltrated by double agents from the start. Remember
many had or were still serving in the military or intelligence agencies
from WW11 thru the cold war which was still at its height when this case
became world wide news. This worked both ways as there were ex military
intelligence member who were genuinely trying to find out and expose the
phenomenon.


Lee Elders - The Billy Meier Contacts interviewed by Bill Jenkins 1985/6 ?

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Things have not changed much , Lee was coming at it from a critical
point of view trying to debunk the story and after spending several
years 'toing and froing' to Switzerland they could not. This is a good
discussion though there are some odd calls coming in from the public
as they go along....

[DNA]

Its always going to be a paradox, particularly when weighing up one set of expert evidence which seems to contradict another.

Then you have the debunkers "debunking" the debunkers. (Let's face it, every conspiracy theory has gone through this from Meier, the TITANIC sinking, JFK, Roswell, global warming, the Moon landings, & 9-11, etc, only adding to the confusion). It becomes more difficult to know who or what to believe.

Next, you have have the "one bad potato in the whole bag which makes all the others rotten", too. (Or, "throwing the baby out with the bathwater" = absolutist thinking; it's "this" or it's "that"). We often think it's fake for all the wrong reasons, ie "Meier's photos remain some of the clearest UFO photos ever consistently produced, therefore, they must be fake!"

And sometimes, a pencil is just a pencil (as opposed to a dangerous weapon) - both can be true).




This is the first video from Cider's post 134 above. Source: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Ab4zwlB9cw
The one with Bob Dean, the video is only like five minutes long, and you can skip like the first two minutes, anyway if you watch it they talk about how the Americans who went to Switzerland to visit Billy, and that being Lee Elders and Wendelle Stevens, that they built some really good models and took them to where Meier had photographed real saucers. They wanted a comparison and to see if they could get the fake models to look like the real thing, all with Billy's blessings, and Billy even took pictures of the models with the same camera he used to take pictures of the UFO's to help contribute.
The video is quick to point out how later debunkers would get a hold of some of these faked photos and state that they are evidence that Billy faked the whole thing, the man interviewed stating all of this even states something profound in relation to this he states "folks want to find the one picture they can prove is a fake so they can throw the whole lot out and be done with it, this is wrong thinking, what folks should be doing is looking for a one genuine picture of a UFO and then realize the implications".
I just wanted to mention this in response to your "throwing the baby out with the bathwater" statement.

Oh, and mahigitam, you have like 20 posts in the past four years, and ALL of them are anti Meier statements.
Have an agenda much?

[Cidersomerset]

This is the Japanese Nipon TV documentary......

Apart from Wendelle and his team Nipon was also deceived ?

FULL Billy Meier-1985 Beamship - The Movie Footage

K58MjoKSMPo

===================================================
===================================================

Other credible witness deceived ?

I met an ET woman -- Asket

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Published on 22 Sep 2013

Phobol Cheng, ex diplomat of the United Nations claims she met Asket, and
extraterrestrial woman that was with Billy Meier, when she was a girl. Naciones
Unidas que cuando era pequeña conoció a Asket, una mujer extraterrestre que
acompañaba a Billy Meier.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

There are others who gave testament in the vids that they saw the beam ships
and some even took photos. Again I'm not saying everything that has come
out is true but much seems plausible and possible that I have seen. In the vid
in # 134 above and link below , Atlantis explains how hard it was for his mother
who has denounced Billies work and the three children who suffered ridicule from
their peers at school and growing up on the small holding was difficult. Atlantis has
now come to terms with his fathers work and gets involved.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D4x0DfgZ1RA


====================================================

Son of Billy Meier "Methi" Exposes FIGU - 2012

19qYgUhkM5M

Neil Gould, Exopolitics Hong Kong interviews "Methi Meier", he has scars from
his childhood and talks about his experiences , he is critical of FIGU and some
of the information and how he was treated. Though he does not disagree with
all the information . He does support the authenticity of some of the spiritual
teachings and early contacts, and saw no signs of faking . Neil concentrates
on the wedding cake photo and ray gun but Methi does not think they were
hoax's as far as he knew. The contacts were real as far as Methi was concerned.
He also thinks his father was manipulated by some FIGU members towards
him ( methi ).

Remember Billy was a 'tear away' child so its not unusual for children to
have the same characteristics of his father. Methi has suffered and has
issues so should be taken in that context , but is telling his truth as he
saw it. This is a strong interview and should be taken in that context imo.

[Cidersomerset]

Amusing comparison for me .....

They must be in for fame and fortune not the ridicule and seeking the truth...


UFO Billy Meier's working room

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==================================

David Icke takes us on a tour of his house on the Isle of Wight

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[KiwiElf]

I notice some here seem to be arguing that the evidence Meier presented in mid to late 1970's was legit but the evidence presented later was fabricated either by Meier himself or by others. We must not forget that the dozens and dozens of damning fake space photos, fabricated prophecies, etc. were there since the beginning of the case i.e. from 1975 onwards. And not to mention the homophobic teachings that were published since 1975.

I believe we are entitled to form our own beliefs & opinions about this mahigitam. Altho I may not personally agree with Meiers homophobic teachings, it doesn't invalidate the other aspects. Perhaps the difference between your findings and those of the original investigations, is that they went in with an open mind, not an intention to prove him wrong.

Even Wikipedia, who usually take the "safe road" and would be expected to outright debunk Meier 100%, do not. Sorry to say it, but your findings get barely a mention.

I'm reminded of the line from the JFK movie, "Theoretical physics can also prove that an elephant can hang off a cliff with its tail tied to a daisy!"

Perhaps I trust my eyes, experience and my own common sense (.. and Billy Meier), more than your "facts"

Cheers :)

[Agape]

Think of cultural diversity .. and ethical standards of the times and societies we're living now as transient because whether you want to acknowledge that or even realise that deeply , they actually are transient .

500 years ago 'we' burnt people at stake for being 'witches', true, some of them were known to be 'real witches' while others were sought and hunted down in huge medieval mob that swept most of Europe prying on those who experienced themselves in different ways from the mainstream Catholic teachings .
Few of our historical personalities , priests and scientists were likewise condemned for heresy and incarcerated for saying the Earth is round and revolves around the Sun rather than otherwise and it does not quite represent 'the centre of the Universe' .

To this day .. there are probably still few millions of people if not more who somehow 'feel' that Earth is flat and that it is right at the centre of creation and Universe and Skies above are mostly an illusion for those people, no matter what you tell them and the only right things in human life are eating, sleeping , praying, working hard as ass and having children .

Look at the geopolitical situation of Europe 100 years ago and it's a time when women barely won their rights to vote or study in academic institutions .
For long enough till then , almost every church known to me except the Hindu ( who do not have 'joint church opinion' ) taught that women are soul-less and their only good role in society is being mothers , eternally subservient to their husbands and families .

100 years ago the country I sit in now was not a country but part of Austrian-Ungarian empire and well, we all were under siege of WWI.

Switzerland was not rich till WWII and pretty rural and mountain land whose children had to work in fields instead going to school.

The same can be said about everywhere else ..


Now what is 'homophobic' ?

What way is homosexuality 'the norm' of human society with exception of tiny percent of people and what way is it a fad that was blown to cover the fact that most people are curious about 'everything' and ready to sell their body to fashion industry , for example if it's well payed ?

What way is prosecuting 'sodomy' homophobic ?

What way is that more acceptable for you than say, pedophilia ?


It takes ages to cultivate , educate human society , by subtle means .. without retreating to violence .

Just saying .. that there's much I do agree with in Billy Meier and then there's probably much I don't but do I have my own way and teachings ?
Completely .

There are many good spiritually advanced teachers and people , generally around the continent and it's not that you need ETs to discover and explore your spirituality .
Most of those who are true are also subtle and do not believe that filling stadiums with 'fans' really help and do not believe in organising political and religious movement and all kind of 'hactivism' that gets out of hand easily , together with their 'leaders'.


Judging the transience of ethics, it's also more or less clear to me that what's acceptable in one culture does not automatically ring true bells everywhere else too.

I've heard it from Kerry Cassidy on couple of occasions and when it came to vetting ( and pardoning ) some whistleblowers , and others here of course, in your culture it may be fine if the person uses a 'little trick' or 'lie' times to times and it's even applauded as kind of charm and people still go around him/her 'believing' he/she is otherwise 'good and honest' .

That's fine with you but it does not automatically work the same way everywhere and whether we talk of Far East or Far West , there are societies that will automatically 'throw the baby' out if they find out a breach of ethics , an attempt to deliberately modify or falsify testimony and so on.

And now .. I mean well .. 100 or 200 years from now and if you think off all the 'publicity bias' what remains will be 'facts' . The science of it . Anything can be also covered and falsified and overlooked by current media and controlled by intel agencies that paints another picture but once the 'morals' or 'pseudo-morals' of current era pass away ..the truth will be found .

It may be sooner or later and it's nothing to do with 'prophecies' . Most prophecies are nothing else than work of more subtle and predictive intelligence in ourselves in us counting 'all the options available' or as many as possible .

Truth will be found is only logical because the chain of causes and consequences never stops .

So Billy Meier and all the rest of us having a message will show up one day .


What seems to me is that we're all suffering deeply for the truth because we want it to be now, in this very lifetime ..


:Angel:

[KiwiElf]

I could draw comparisons to NZ's own version of "Billy Meier" - Alec Newald. He was locked up by authorities, hounded, ridiculed etc. While not in the same league as Meier, Alec has revealed some quite astounding "knowledge" himself. I know the guy personally, which is different from reading about him or watching a video. What he has discussed with me and shown me in private conversations is staggering. (and I also believe he is genuine).

My simple question regarding the way contactee's are treated by the debunking "experts" and "authorities" is; why do the "authorities" invest so much time, effort & resources debunking (and sometimes outright destroying) the contactee when from the outset, the "authorities" claim they are frauds & fakes.

It's a bit like, "if Lee Harvey Oswald did it" (re JFK), then why lock up the evidence for 30 years (or worse still, make it - or the contactee - "disappear")?

[KiwiElf]

@ Agape
:) Possibly has a lot to do with Westerners being "programmed" that a movie has a beginning, climax and ending, all happily (or not), resolved in the space of 2-hours. ;)

[Cidersomerset]

I just started watching this old vid on DNA's thread and John Starts off briefly
stating he believed the Meier case to be true ( 6 min in)....Just for the record.

pj-HzHi3dF0