Need suggestion on how to make extra cash to support my quest.

[shadowstalker]

Before anyone says get a job, MY back will not allow me to sit or stand for more then 20 minutes and i am working on getting SSD. So working on someone else's time is not going to work. Been there done that moved on with that, to much stress.

I have tried almost everything, to make extra cash to support my research.
I have my payal working on all my videos.
I am trying to sell my music on bandcamp.
I am hooked up on loads of FB paranormal/UFO groups and free add groups.
I have even made flyers and posted in local areas in town.

I even started a Patreon (https://www.patreon.com/projectshadowstalker) site as well.

Besides keeping it positive and visualizing and the like what else could I be missing.

Any suggestions for free advertising (Sorry for the mix up folks)?

[Jayren]

Investing all the cash you have now into something greater for yourself

[regnak]

cure your back rebuild the muscles from inside out

Yiquan martials arts it rebuilds the body from the inside out it start at the problem areas and works from there . It takes time give it a couple weeks and you be amazed at the results.

you can do it standing up , sitting down , and lying down ,

the first exercises are only for health its gets much harder and longer periods for martials arts
http://www.yiquan.me/

God work with you not for you visualisation do work but you have to put practical into it . Well visualisation can work on there own if you insist but they have to be very strong you have to taste, smell, hear ,see, touch experience it and live it so that it does not matter weather it comes our not very difficult but possible .

[Tesla_WTC_Solution]

Hi Shadow,

my family doesn't do much Ebay anymore,
we did last year without huge success (we survived lol),

but last year at least, people selling T-shirts on Ebay and maybe similar sites,
were making a LOT of money depending on the theme.

People willing to cater to specific markets, like gamers, rockers, college kids, and smokers, were making tons of money. We saw that sellers offering anything "420" were making a whole lot really quickly. I've rarely seen a seller with a "sold history" containing $89 Tshirts in the list, but there were some in that category (adult/smoker).

We were really shocked. One of the popular ones was a green Cookie Monster Tshirt; when you looked at it closely you could see that his body was a photograph of bud. The guy selling these shirts was getting rich! lol.

I am not sure about this year, but last year at least, it was "the thing".


T-shirts can be designed right on your couch, if you have a laptop/pad or other way of designing them. if you have drawing talent just do it the old fashioned way as there is tons less risk that way of your images being ripped off by other sellers.

I did Zazzle for a year or two before my disability.
Strangely although not all my designs succeeded directly, I saw some of them being sold by other sellers and was kinda pissed off.

the trick with online selling is consistency and patience,
we had to learn that thru a game! hah :(

the trouble with Ebay if you're not producing yourself or selling wholesale is their fees eat you alive! so you have to be "ready" and "do the math" before committing to that **** ********.

:) haha



p.s. a good goal financially is getting to where you can afford occasional housekeeping help. that sounds like a great goal for anyone whose back is messed up. i'd love to make that much money IRL. :cake:

[Nasu]

It's a tricky one to help you with, I need more info..

1. Has monetizing your videos and music helped in mesurable ways either financially or via branding to spread your talents out for a wider audience? Or is it limiting and reducing your potential audience, in your opinion???

2. Do you have any capital to start a small enterprise, $100 or more???

3. What tools do you have at your disposal to help you realise your entrepreneurial funds raising goals, like for example a car, computer, mobile phone, spare room, sewing kit, kitchen, workshop, small bit of land, etc, etc???

4. Your physical condition is always a key factor, you know yourself best, what can you realistically do? How much time in the day can you work at your goals before being exhausted etc???

5. Skills, do you have any? What do you find easy or are good at that others find hard? What do you enjoy doing for fun, can it be turned from a hobby into something larger in scope? What do others say you are great at???

6. Timescale, how soon do you need to see results? Weeks, months or years? Even the smallest enterprises can take time for people to hear about you, how much time are you prepared to invest in this plan???

7. Your mission, rather than finding imaginative ways to fund it, with the right planning, people and resources, could it fund itself???

8. Logistics, as the Irish say, if I was headed there I wouldn't be starting from here, yet here we are. So what factors do you have in your life that will slow your progress? What responsibilities do you have that you must continue to honor? What people or pets or property do you need to bring with you on this adventure? What's truly important in your life that needs to be brought with you???

9. What makes you smile and get exited like a little girl???

Now to action, set aside two hours for yourself to change your life.. Go find a note pad and three pens and some water, take some pillows to a comfy corner of your home and sit on the floor. Meditate on each of these questions and write down your thoughts. Don't be surprised if your mind becomes distracted, simply re read the question and return to your work. The answers to these questions and others that you can set for yourself, will help guide you to THE answer, which is no small thing, it is after all your life's mission to remember what your mission is!

If after this you still feel stumped for ideas, then give me more to work with and I will do my best to help...x... N

[Selkie]

My first thought was crowd funding. I don't have a clue how it works, though.

[Tesla_WTC_Solution]

My first thought was crowd funding. I don't have a clue how it works, though.

GoFundMe is the one in the news a lot recently,
but their rules might be a bit stiff.

Paypal donations work well as long as it's a real charity iirc.

The way sites like zazzle work is, you design an image and they put your image on their template (shirt/mug/calendar etc)
So it requires no investment as far as I know.

Ebay requires either enough income to pay at least 15% back to them or have a credit card (ouch!) with enough limit to pay fees, then pay yourself back before the monthly compounding (there are ways to set up Bill Pay through certain banks to do it automatically, the point of this would be avoiding late fees)

anyhow lmao.
it sounds really exciting, can you tell I like business?

[Nasu]

My first thought was crowd funding. I don't have a clue how it works, though.

Crowd funding is great, if you have a great idea. Without the passion to support a great idea, there is nothing. So a great idea supported by a passionate individual is key to success, the rest comes down to the semantics of finance, either conventional or unconventional. Some ideas are so powerful that they attract investment, but always the last dew diligence is about the people who will make it happen, they go hand in hand... N

[WhiteLove]

Before anyone says get a job, MY back will not allow me to sit or stand for more then 20 minutes and i am working on getting SSD. So working on someone else's time is not going to work. Been there done that moved on with that, to much stress.

I have tried almost everything, to make extra cash to support my research.
I have my payal working on all my videos.
I am trying to sell my music on bandcamp.
I am hooked up on loads of FB paranormal/UFO groups and free add groups.
I have even made flyers and posted in local areas in town.

I even started a Patreon (https://www.patreon.com/projectshadowstalker) site as well.

Besides keeping it positive and visualizing and the like what else could I be missing.

Any suggestions?

Are you a big business entrepreneur driven by providing the greatest life improving qualities within a theme that you love as a service to others and welcome the discomfort, struggle and challenges that this brings?

Are you a sophisticated investor that know how to play the market to provide a strong cash flow to yourself and others?

If the answer is no to both of the above questions, then likely you are currently playing with a little thinner cash flows that typically do not generate so much cash, typically this is the case when you are driven by maintaining stability, security etc, this typically comes from a more service to self kind of strategy which might be a result of struggling with energy deposits.

Are you exhausted? Are you surrounded by a lot of negative energy sources on a daily basis? Are you focusing more on how it is or more on how you want it to be? Are you accepting things that create security/comfort but make you unhappy? These are some of the areas you should be focusing on. You simply need to re-attach to all of the positive energy sources, and basically just turn less negatively biased. Because it is all of the negative judgments that cause all the pain.

Life is not lived in a single day, it is lived over many days. This tells us that we do not have to move in such a way that all of our dreams are reached in one day. But every day is there and available as an opportunity of improving something about the reality.

To get you on the path of a strong cash flow, here is an interview with Steve Wynn:

Steve Wynn: "I'm driving the culture, the employees are driving the experience. It's about my people."
eOesXyfJGI0

[M0JFK]

Go rob a bank. If you get caught doing it just tell them you are just re-distributing wealth.

[Agape]

Kindly ask your E.T.s for a Key ... they will give it to you ... they're obliged to give it to you but you must wait some time till it arrives .
Till then , do nothing or everything you can to keep yourself in good shape .

This is your survival situation . It's not fun . I've seen people dying because they doubted themselves a lot or someone else did .

There's always a way ...

Keep well :bearhug::flower:

[wnlight]

shadowstalker, your body can heal anything. Talk to it. Request a healing. Do not plead - request. You deserve good health.

[Fellow Aspirant]

How about selling things online? Doesn't have to be Ebay or Etsy, but perhaps you have access to some local or not so local object or service that doesn't have much of a profile online and just needs somebody to offer it to the right demographic. For example, I have a friend that decided to offer CDs that were exclusively created by women. She started it as a tax break write-off, but within a year she was doing so much business that it was cutting into her 'day job' schedule.

Just a thought.

Brian

[jagman]

Start meditating on it every day Shadowstalker. You have to see yourself financially sound
in your mind. Your very smart! You have the answer to your own question, You just don't kmow
yet! Send me a private email with your brthdate and full name and I will devise a chart for you!
Write a number 8 out on a piece of paper put it in your purse! Write another 8 out and put it up
on where you keep your Bills that you owe!
This is a critical part Shadow stalker! I want you to Light a white candle and repeat this daily
affrimation 15 minutes a day! "I pay my Bills with ease and I always have extra money"
I promise you with in a week or 2 or maybe sooner you will recieve a check in the mail that
you were not expecting or you will come into some money in some way shape or form but
when you do try to think to yourself how you can take that money and grow it into some
kind of business or idea that you enjoy. You will be fine Sweetie.

[Anchor]

Among the list of things you need to do, healing your body needs to be high on the list of priorities.

[regnak]

go rob a bank re-distributing wealth

okay a person taught as you MOJFK and robbed a Bank in Sweden however most banks are gone to electronic money they deal in cash less and less so what do you tell the teller put the money on a CD-ROMs

Electronic money is here so that the government can collect every dime in taxes they are owned and you have no choice but to pay benefits no banks runs because no cash , no black market because no cash it is the way society is going .:cash::cash::cash:

http://www.thelocal.se/20130422/47484?PageSpeed=noscript:cash::cash::cash:

[regnak]

would you consider a kick-start campaign

grrm got 500,000 by signing a few books etc ( his one was to save wolves )

[lucidity]

Hey Shadowstalker,

Are there limits to what you would be willing to do?
What kind of things would you absolutely rule out ?

be happy :-)

lucidity

[shadowstalker]

How about selling things online? Doesn't have to be Ebay or Etsy, but perhaps you have access to some local or not so local object or service that doesn't have much of a profile online and just needs somebody to offer it to the right demographic. For example, I have a friend that decided to offer CDs that were exclusively created by women. She started it as a tax break write-off, but within a year she was doing so much business that it was cutting into her 'day job' schedule.

Just a thought.

Brian

Selling my books and music online
I also have an etsy, and Zazzle, 2 Zazzle account actually (To which I am in the process of revamping). And Started a Patreon account.
I only do paypal as the rest is annoying.


Start meditating on it every day Shadowstalker. You have to see yourself financially sound
in your mind. Your very smart! You have the answer to your own question, You just don't kmow
yet! Send me a private email with your brthdate and full name and I will devise a chart for you!
Write a number 8 out on a piece of paper put it in your purse! Write another 8 out and put it up
on where you keep your Bills that you owe!
This is a critical part Shadow stalker! I want you to Light a white candle and repeat this daily
affrimation 15 minutes a day! "I pay my Bills with ease and I always have extra money"
I promise you with in a week or 2 or maybe sooner you will recieve a check in the mail that
you were not expecting or you will come into some money in some way shape or form but
when you do try to think to yourself how you can take that money and grow it into some
kind of business or idea that you enjoy. You will be fine Sweetie.

I am in the process of taking your advice. Thank you :heart:


Kindly ask your E.T.s for a Key ... they will give it to you ... they're obliged to give it to you but you must wait some time till it arrives .
Till then , do nothing or everything you can to keep yourself in good shape .

This is your survival situation . It's not fun . I've seen people dying because they doubted themselves a lot or someone else did .

There's always a way ...

Keep well :bearhug::flower:

I started your advice last night, thank you. :inlove:

Thank you all for your help :clapping: :bearhug:

[Rhah]

Hi Shadowstalker :) I don't know if it'll suit you, but I might have a suggestion for you.

I use this freelance website called UpWork where it is very easy for freelancers with all sorts of skills to find relevant jobs.
Anyone who has a certain job or project that requires the work of a skilled freelancer can post this job up on this website to which the registered freelancer can apply and possibly get hired.

I'm a native Dutch speaker and have been doing translation jobs from Dutch to English for about 5 years now (on a voluntary basis for most of that time), but now that I have recently graduated and am also looking for some extra cash I came across this website and decided to register.
The freelancer can do a great variery of tests on many different fields of work on the website itself. The results of these tests will then be linked to your profile, sort of as a proof of your capabilities in this specific field of work, which, of course, can then be viewed by those who are looking for a freelancer for their job and might be thinking of hiring you. (Having positive test results on your profile will obviously make it easier for you to get hired for a job.)

What you will earn will really vary per job. You might be payed a fixed price that can range between 10 or even 50.000 dollars (of course depending on how big the job is), or you can be payed the hourly rate you have set yourself. This all depends on the job and what is preferred by whoever is offering the contract.

So yeah, like I said, I don't know if this will even suit you at all, as I don't know if you are skilled in a specific field of work that is supported on the website. But as the variety of the jobs that are offered is so extremely broad I thought I would just bring it up to you.
I at least think it would definitely be worth checking out as you might just be able to land some small jobs that you can work on at home and earn some extra cash without too much effort and all in your own time. You are in no way forced by someone to spend a certain amount of time a day on the job. As long as you think you're able to get it done before the deadline (if there is one).

Here's the link: https://www.upwork.com/

I hope this was of any help to you Shadowstalker :) Best of luck!

[Michael Moewes]

You may start a project on Pledgemusic.
Live healthy and vegan

[Rhah]

I might have some more tips regarding your music, Shadowstalker.

If you want to have your music sold it really is all about bringing it to the public. Your music might be absolutely amazing, but as long as no one knows about it you're still not getting anywhere. And especially these days, when pretty much every 13 year old kid can illegally download all the available music production software and make music and put it on the internet, just having your music out there on the net and hoping that someone will happen to find it, sadly isn't enough. Promoting your music really is the key.

I would like to share, from personal experience, some methods that you can apply to help achieve this.

I also make music and have been doing so for a couple of years now. I have had my music played on the radio, and I have even had my own label at some point. I also work in the record store of a well-established house label and come in contact with many musicians, producers, and label-owners at work. So I could say that I kind of know what I'm talking about. Eventhough I'm by no means a succesful, well-known producer.

The first thing you could try to get your music introduced to a larger public is by finding out if there are any (local or not) radio stations (could just as well also be internet radio) that you think would match with the kind of music that you are making. Now I would like to point out that in this case it doesn't necessarily depend on the radiostation itself, but more on the DJ's that it employs. Because there really are loads and loads of radio stations that either broadcast via the ether or just via the internet that have a very broad timetable of many different kinds of music.
They could have a DJ that strictly plays Hip Hop for 1 or 2 hours during his timeslot, and then have a DJ following him up that only plays House or Techno. Each, for the main part, having it's own base of fans and listeners.
So it's key to find a radio station, and preferably a DJ, that you think matches your style of music and would be willing to play your music during his or her radio show. And this can be achieved very easily by simply getting in contact with him or her and providing them with the .wav files of your music.

Of course they might not be willing to play it, but that's never a good enough reason to not atleast try :) Oh and I would like to clarify that I have listened to your music and I wouldn't have said this if I thought your music wasn't there yet in terms of quality. Because it most definitely doesn't lack quality. And when that level of quality is achieved, it is no longer a question of your personal skills, but rather a question of the public's taste.

A second method is to get in contact with other musicians or producers, whose music would roughly fall within the same genre as yours, and see if any would be willing to work together with you. As in a collaboration on either a single track or perhaps even an entire album or EP. This is a great and relatively easy way to get yourself and your discography introduced to that other person's fanbase. People that might've never stumbpled upon your work if you hadn't worked with this particular musician or producer.
And, of course, the same applies to the other party as well. Which, as a result, shouldn't make it too hard to find potential collaboration partners. (as I have noticed from personal experiences)

A third way is to look for blogs or websites that are somewhat focused on music and would perhaps appreciate your music. You could then introduce them to your work and suggest that, if they happen to like it, you could maybe provide them with some sort of promotional piece of work, like a mix, or perhaps an album that will only be distributed through them. You name it.
Because never forget that you shouldn't sit and wait for other people to contact you. As they might simply not be aware of your music and thus the fact that you're not contacted by anyone doesn't mean that your music isn't worthy of being promoted. Plus, they also at all times have a fanbase of readers or listeners that they want to keep satisfied. So if they're contacted by a musician whose music they really like, they won't hesitate to support it.

Finally, although this is personally my least favourite one, is, of course, social media. I've personally never liked working with social media but unfortunately it now happens to be pretty much the number one way by which people discover new music. Besides maybe YouTube. (which I would also definitely consider, now that I think of it)

So that's about it. I do not know how much effort you have already put in promoting your music so you might as well have already tried some or all of these methods, but because I am also always fighting this constant struggle of getting my music heard by others and have had some experience with it, I just thought I'd share it as it might just help you out.
I hope it has :)

PS. I know, and maybe you do too, that Omniverse on here also makes music and it actually happens to be somewhat similar to yours in some aspects. And he also has his own blog. So just as an example, as I am of course not implying anything, you could maybe get in touch with him and see if he would be willing to work with you? As he undoubtebly has his own fanbase, and on top of that his blog could serve as a great way to promote yours and his music.
Though again, I would like to stress that this was just an example for how you could go about doing this and how it could work. I've never been in contact with Omniverse myself so I don't mean to enforce or imply anything.

[shadowstalker]

I might have some more tips regarding your music, Shadowstalker.

If you want to have your music sold it really is all about bringing it to the public. Your music might be absolutely amazing, but as long as no one knows about it you're still not getting anywhere. And especially these days, when pretty much every 13 year old kid can illegally download all the available music production software and make music and put it on the internet, just having your music out there on the net and hoping that someone will happen to find it, sadly isn't enough. Promoting your music really is the key.

I would like to share, from personal experience, some methods that you can apply to help achieve this.

I also make music and have been doing so for a couple of years now. I have had my music played on the radio, and I have even had my own label at some point. I also work in the record store of a well-established house label and come in contact with many musicians, producers, and label-owners at work. So I could say that I kind of know what I'm talking about. Eventhough I'm by no means a succesful, well-known producer.

The first thing you could try to get your music introduced to a larger public is by finding out if there are any (local or not) radio stations (could just as well also be internet radio) that you think would match with the kind of music that you are making. Now I would like to point out that in this case it doesn't necessarily depend on the radiostation itself, but more on the DJ's that it employs. Because there really are loads and loads of radio stations that either broadcast via the ether or just via the internet that have a very broad timetable of many different kinds of music.
They could have a DJ that strictly plays Hip Hop for 1 or 2 hours during his timeslot, and then have a DJ following him up that only plays House or Techno. Each, for the main part, having it's own base of fans and listeners.
So it's key to find a radio station, and preferably a DJ, that you think matches your style of music and would be willing to play your music during his or her radio show. And this can be achieved very easily by simply getting in contact with him or her and providing them with the .wav files of your music.

Of course they might not be willing to play it, but that's never a good enough reason to not atleast try :) Oh and I would like to clarify that I have listened to your music and I wouldn't have said this if I thought your music wasn't there yet in terms of quality. Because it most definitely doesn't lack quality. And when that level of quality is achieved, it is no longer a question of your personal skills, but rather a question of the public's taste.

A second method is to get in contact with other musicians or producers, whose music would roughly fall within the same genre as yours, and see if any would be willing to work together with you. As in a collaboration on either a single track or perhaps even an entire album or EP. This is a great and relatively easy way to get yourself and your discography introduced to that other person's fanbase. People that might've never stumbpled upon your work if you hadn't worked with this particular musician or producer.
And, of course, the same applies to the other party as well. Which, as a result, shouldn't make it too hard to find potential collaboration partners. (as I have noticed from personal experiences)

A third way is to look for blogs or websites that are somewhat focused on music and would perhaps appreciate your music. You could then introduce them to your work and suggest that, if they happen to like it, you could maybe provide them with some sort of promotional piece of work, like a mix, or perhaps an album that will only be distributed through them. You name it.
Because never forget that you shouldn't sit and wait for other people to contact you. As they might simply not be aware of your music and thus the fact that you're not contacted by anyone doesn't mean that your music isn't worthy of being promoted. Plus, they also at all times have a fanbase of readers or listeners that they want to keep satisfied. So if they're contacted by a musician whose music they really like, they won't hesitate to support it.

Finally, although this is personally my least favourite one, is, of course, social media. I've personally never liked working with social media but unfortunately it now happens to be pretty much the number one way by which people discover new music. Besides maybe YouTube. (which I would also definitely consider, now that I think of it)

So that's about it. I do not know how much effort you have already put in promoting your music so you might as well have already tried some or all of these methods, but because I am also always fighting this constant struggle of getting my music heard by others and have had some experience with it, I just thought I'd share it as it might just help you out.
I hope it has :)

PS. I know, and maybe you do too, that Omniverse on here also makes music and it actually happens to be somewhat similar to yours in some aspects. And he also has his own blog. So just as an example, as I am of course not implying anything, you could maybe get in touch with him and see if he would be willing to work with you? As he undoubtebly has his own fanbase, and on top of that his blog could serve as a great way to promote yours and his music.
Though again, I would like to stress that this was just an example for how you could go about doing this and how it could work. I've never been in contact with Omniverse myself so I don't mean to enforce or imply anything.

LOL I have been doing all the above you have suggested. but to no avail.

And I use all my music on my vids. and leave links.

As for omni, we are both on bancamp and he even remixed one or two of my songs, and we chat when I have time. we seem to be pretty good friends at present lol.

Thank you so much for the advice. :thumbsup:

Although for some reason my FB group (https://www.facebook.com/groups/theveiloftheunknownisdropping/) is gaining members reall quick just by word of mouth, 30 members in two days. I AM AMAZED AND GRATEFUL.. :first:

[Alekahn2]

This may sound a bit odd and would entail some minimal upfront investment, but here is an idea I've been kicking around for a year now:

BUMPER STICKERS geared towards the awake(ning) and aware crowd! ET related perhaps?

Par example: Follow Your Heart (I have this on my truck :heart:). I reside in a new age mecca of sorts and stickers are HUGE here for some odd reason(s). There was a small company here years ago, that put out a line of black & white stickers that had a conspiratorial (and at times unAmerican) slant to them. They are still selling to this day, though they have relocated. Sales would likely be done primarily online, depending on your locale.

Perhaps the Avalonian crowd could do some creative brainstorming for ideas. I have considered symbols and esoteric phrases. Sky is the limit!

Best of luck to you shadowstalker, in all respects.

[Valley]

I'd suggest you think about the activities that bring you the most joy and greatest meaning in your life... make a list, then ponder on the possibilities of each... then as you think about each one, pay close attention to how each possibility makes you feel inside... and go from there.
Blessings...
http://projectavalon.net/forum4/attachment.php?attachmentid=29818&cid=1&stc=1

[tnkayaker]

greetings shadow-s i am in a similar situation (lower back injury) as i had a slip and fall while on the job working and driving a truck (otr) back in 1999 , thankfully and i will re-assert greatly thankful that i was able to find an attorney (pro_bono) none the less to represent me as the injury happened while on the road will i was in chicago, while living in upstate NY as a home base and at the time of finding an attorney years later i was ans still am living in the south,Tn actually so the logistics were a bit much but never the less i got a permanent status declared by my doctor etc, what im getting at is i still must find limited income also and as i suggestion, yard sales and finding items to re-sell either on craigs list (free to sell things) or e-bay if u want to deal with the auction thing is a great way to make some small amounts of spending money, you have to stay with it, and of course you must declare your income, mmm yep suppose to, i do , but i will say if you set yourself up as a small business , like file a dba thats means thinking up a name for your business and filing it at your local court house, then starting a business bank account, you can pretty much get rolling legally then you can talk to a CPA at the end of the year and small business folks qualify for a few worthy deductions, like millage or gas costs, vehicle maintenance ,oil changes stuff like that so the deductions are worth the pain the ass it takes to get set up then once up and running guy can make a few hundred maybe every few weeks and it really does add up, i had to change my mind set and think again about living a more simple life style, and once i decided what was really important to me , i found i had enough for all my needs,, now alot of folks confuse wants and needs but then again ,,,,,dont we all sometimes, i hope this gives you some hope, setting up those "please help me sites can work sometimes , but i find more integrity in going out and making it happen in front of my eyes so to speak" if one thinks out of the box you can find ways to get something going, selling anything to get going is the first mind set one needs to get over, letting go of things you think you cant go with out is a misnomer, once you start letting go , things come back to you really quickly, but the karmic wheel works like this , you start letting go and selling everything and what comes back is just the things you really need as opposed to extra things you may never use, but simply want to posses, thats how it works for me or came to work for me, well good luck man, peace,dennis